ID
NetChain
SelfChain
Timestamp
Speaker
Message
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) prior to <awt> ---
fff32c420000000000000000…2022-02-24 03:48:47 <awt> The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
f52dfe5efff32c42…983a3109…2023-07-05 15:31:49 <awt_akris> Ok akris now uses the latest message in the log for setting net_chain.
cc30d783fff32c42…f52dfe5e…2023-07-05 15:32:10 <awt_akris> I don't anticipate puttion out a patch for blatta.
3c5a1465fff32c42…22de3201…2023-07-05 15:55:43 <awt_akris> Perhaps this has already been discussed, but for multipart messages, would it be possible for every assembled message to attempt to decode say image, audio, whatever, and if it succeeds display it?
59c25f41fff32c42…3c5a1465…2023-07-05 16:10:26 <awt_akris> lol shinohai I've been wanting to do something like that.
cd42dc91fff32c42…59c25f41…2023-07-05 16:11:45 <awt_akris> as far as banned goes, can't you generate a new key or something?
8c632098fff32c42…d8a2fed6…2023-07-05 18:23:20 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: proposed mechanism involves no mime types.
0029a2f3fff32c42…8c632098…2023-07-05 18:43:49 <awt_akris> It is simple and mirrors the mechanism at the heart of pest - except decode instead of decrypt. If it decodes to *something*, render it.
cd4f2553fff32c42…0029a2f3…2023-07-05 18:45:27 <awt_akris> Feed bytes to png lib, then jpg, then mp3, etc.
96219fe2fff32c42…cd4f2553…2023-07-05 18:47:11 <awt_akris> Would have to be careful as legend has it there are "executable jpgs".
7c4b0133fff32c42…96219fe2…2023-07-05 18:48:01 <awt_akris> Honestly don't know much about image encoding.
2e28b897fff32c42…7c4b0133…2023-07-05 18:52:58 <awt_akris> By convention, the first part of a binary multipart could be assumed to be the caption/description.
77b44e7362518c1c…62518c1c…2022-02-26 18:37:19 <asciilifeform> and from bot, loox like at least 1 got rebroadcast, lol
a174d6183c5a1465…bab25d6c…2023-07-05 16:05:43 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-03#1027764 <<< I've been having fun with the nostr tire fire btw, got myself blacklisted from 4 relays so far for rapid-fire posting. So much for "muh decentralized twitter!". xD
0f04faf9cd42dc91…a174d618…2023-07-05 16:15:01 <shinohai> Yeah you can generate new keys but I'm too lazy for that. A lot of relays I've noticed filter content, naturally I got a camhoe to post shit I could repost and observed about 40% of the nodes listed here won't relay pr0n images: https://nostr.watch/relays/find
a890eef35ca48d9b…0f04faf9…2023-07-05 16:19:22 <shinohai> Yeah and it's trivial to load 'em all up in json array in client config and fire off posts that hit 'em all using nothing but a bash script since - unlike twitter - nostr dun give af if you post same message over and over.
8a787ccfd8a2fed6…a890eef3…2023-07-05 16:21:55 <shinohai> DM's are atrocious - while you can't decrypt 'em without proper key they flow over the relays just like any other "note" so you can see which folks are talking to each other.
a9595baf8c632098…bdd79869…2023-07-05 18:38:41 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: plox to post algo when you've the cycles
897b65502e28b897…a9595baf…2023-07-05 19:30:22 <asciilifeform> imho ideally would be a) png b) 'file' (mp3, djvu, whatever) that opens up in external proggy (if such exists)
74a60947a174d618…4e1fe4ad…2023-07-05 16:07:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-03 14:35:50 awt: Meanwhile from someone running nostr: https://twitter.com/thetractatus/status/1675675859217432577
b3b560d8897b6550…897b6550…2023-07-05 19:30:46 <asciilifeform> supporting over9000 embedded turds is traditionally how chat proggies pwned
6beba50fc0394c53…c0394c53…2022-02-26 21:48:30 <awt> Glad the genesis message finally got through to the logger
dd96e745d11008da…f9ba9df6…2023-07-05 17:48:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-05#1027840 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026132
41d94d98b3b560d8…d11008da…2023-07-05 19:34:10 <shinohai> "Just install via `curl http://myawesumthing/pwnd | sudo bash` !!!!!"
ca60665add96e745…74a60947…2023-07-05 17:50:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-05 11:57:24 awt_akris[awt]: Perhaps this has already been discussed, but for multipart messages, would it be possible for every assembled message to attempt to decode say image, audio, whatever, and if it succeeds display it?
5ef27086c51a4956…c51a4956…2022-02-26 21:50:13 <awt> shinohai: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-02-25#1080832
38af330fca60665a…ca60665a…2023-07-05 17:50:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:53:01 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026119 << for 'file', the notion was to luby. for lolcats, iirc no one yet suggested precisely how to mark'em ( would strongly prefer not to roll in the 'mime' traditional idiocy or anyffin like it. prolly best to have a single flag som
a34ccff45ef27086…8c200af1…2022-02-26 21:52:29 <shinohai> awt I noticed the command line changes, but no clue why blatta won't process 'em via script. Will look at it later tho
61d94ce238af330f…dd96e745…2023-07-05 17:49:38 asciilifeform would rather not see mime in a pestron but sumthing roughly equiv. is prolly unavoidable
fb3c29ea61d94ce2…61d94ce2…2023-07-05 17:50:29 <asciilifeform> imho lolcat markings dun belong in the wire protocol per se ( tho wouldn't object to including'em in spec, once awt et al figure out what they oughta be )
750d7c7ec862c55e…006d379f…2023-07-05 22:53:49 <signpost> nah this is not a scalable solution. parse with all parsers blows up the (hopefully) fixed cost of processing a packet
874f224e09ab825b…09ab825b…2022-02-26 21:53:40 <awt> if your clock is far enough ahead of the speaker, blatta may think your last received message is newer than a message just sent, and will apply the timestamp.
bdd79869fb3c29ea…fb3c29ea…2023-07-05 17:52:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-05#1027844 << lol they default to rebroadcast unless blacklisted pubkey?! ( thought the thing used explicit wots )
50e5beef750d7c7e…d7fc2fae…2023-07-06 01:22:26 <asciilifeform> signpost: it could be a bad idea, but this probably aint why -- presumably awt was thinking of the sort of parse that'd fail early (i.e. when not sees the magick header bytes, and only try when sees the 1st msg of multipart)
172027b2874f224e…a34ccff4…2022-02-26 21:54:53 shinohai syncs timeclock to loperos using "poor man's ntp"
3b4b04aebdd79869…38af330f…2023-07-05 17:54:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-05 12:13:26 awt_akris[awt]: as far as banned goes, can't you generate a new key or something?
86c50a5350e5beef…50e5beef…2023-07-06 01:23:15 asciilifeform sees 'bad idea' for diff reason entirely -- rolling in wtf knows what libs for image-eating
a4d867c6172027b2…172027b2…2022-02-26 21:56:07 <shinohai> `date -s "$(curl -s4D - loper-os.org | grep '^Date:' | cut -d' ' -f3-6)Z"` for curious ....
8a1595af86c50a53…86c50a53…2023-07-06 01:24:55 asciilifeform nominally in favour of 'support display of lolcats' but with caveat 'pick one format plox' so at least hypothetically adaizable into 100% airtightness
6b0582c9884c7535…3b4b04ae…2023-07-06 01:29:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:05:30 asciilifeform[4]: it's expensive, in the 'blockchain' sense. send a lolcat? nao erry new station has to sit for whoknows how long fetching rest of chain + that lolcat
33b5568b5b3d8c80…5b3d8c80…2022-02-26 21:59:48 <awt> I did include signposts's fix that was causing some messages to be presented as hearsay, from way back in December
31a88a136b0582c9…6b0582c9…2023-07-06 01:29:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 08:15:42 jonsykkel[deedbot|awt]: puting them inline in chain seems like annoying way to force evryone to store 5000 lolcats or nothing. then when disk full u gota start deleteing evrything from old end rather than just the cats
f763304331a88a13…31a88a13…2023-07-06 01:29:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 11:28:28 phf[awt]: but that of course means that /somebody/ has to keep the entire log at all times, which is when you run into the whole 10GB of log with all kinds of lolcats
49792cf761f46ec5…e1fb6382…2022-02-26 22:28:23 <billymg> awt: i'm not seeing bot echos in my console either, only in the logs
3fe06519f7633043…884c7535…2023-07-06 01:28:42 asciilifeform in spec allowed for 18,874,080byte multiparters but this may be a folly (lolcats or not)
1fd7e3cbf7633043…3fe06519…2023-07-06 01:43:05 <asciilifeform> ( in particular, all of this opens up inevitable questions of 'yes protocol lets but what's considered polite behaviour'
21db466b49792cf7…49792cf7…2022-02-26 22:30:32 <billymg> btw, awt, jonsykkel: i updated pestnet.io with your latest versions -- let me know if i screwed anything up
3ba907ac1fd7e3cb…f7633043…2023-07-06 01:44:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:21:37 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: phf: entirely similar. except that most folx wouldn't send 18MB of txt spamola, whereas typically people think nuffin of throwing in a 18MB cat
366954c921db466b…21db466b…2022-02-26 22:32:09 <billymg> i'm not really happy with how the second section on the homepage looks, not a good transition from the first section, but i'll save fixing that for a later design update
7c6255213ba907ac…b920134e…2023-07-06 01:52:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-05#1027863 << thinking further re subj, imho may even be worth it to bake a reasonably-performant but optimized-for-simplicity bitmap compressor (e.g. 'pnm' + simple run-length encode)
f26a89f2366954c9…77b44e73…2022-02-26 22:57:14 <asciilifeform> http://pestnet.io/prototype.html << 404
9572f8847c625521…3ba907ac…2023-07-06 01:54:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-05 14:49:43 awt_akris[awt]: Honestly don't know much about image encoding.
78b93614f26a89f2…366954c9…2022-02-26 23:03:59 <billymg> asciilifeform: that page doesn't exist anymore and there shouldn't be any links pointing to it (if you saw one possibly from a cached page)
4d31a1c478b93614…78b93614…2022-02-26 23:05:20 <billymg> try a hard refresh on the homepage, should see two new links to blatta and smalpest
b243b8ce24ce2ee4…750d7c7e…2023-07-06 02:18:10 <signpost> sure, what `file` does sounded like the proposal, but I'm skeptical all formats can be detected this way efficently
35642f342ac75c1a…2ac75c1a…2023-07-06 02:18:52 <signpost> what's gained from not saying what's in the payload?
a4a4500935642f34…24ce2ee4…2023-07-06 02:52:26 <asciilifeform> signpost: 1 way or anuther you gotta say wat's in the payload. the q is where you say it.
70687871a4a45009…a4a45009…2023-07-06 02:53:23 <asciilifeform> ( a protocolic 'this aint human-readable text' flag could make sense. q is whether this is needed )
9d911a3570687871…70687871…2023-07-06 02:54:28 <asciilifeform> ... arguably needed, ~somewhere~, if only to keep text clients from spewing 18MB of lolcat into console as txt
b053611f9d911a35…35642f34…2023-07-06 04:17:55 <signpost> yup, one concern was just being able to cheaply ignore.
d7f0a7c9000000005d4d3480…2022-02-25 21:33:50 <PeterL> I wanted to see if the old one would crash with the new version (I think I patched it at some point to handle all message types, so it is not the stock 9983)
146171e100000000d7f0a7c9…2022-02-25 21:34:27 <PeterL> seems weird that the new version would crash, was it just after I started talking or has it been doing it a while?
37a9047500000000d09effc2…2022-02-25 21:37:32 <PeterL> I was just thinking, it shouldn't be hard to set up a pest-dulap bridge bot, if anybody thinks that would be useful?
95a905850000000037a90475…2022-02-25 21:42:04 <PeterL> seems I murdered the bot http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-25#1080805
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 179f45991e5ca1b34c054dd2d173f778510a256cce0df055e03da02b9487499e) prior to <awt> ---
c8c56ac198e7ea99…98e7ea99…2022-02-25 21:53:58 <awt> Lol looks like due to our clocks not being in alignment all your messages are being tagged with a timestmap PeterL
247e67d798e7ea99…98e7ea99…2022-02-25 21:53:58 <awt> Lol looks like due to our clocks not being in alignment all your messages are being tagged with a timestmap PeterL
422c403dc8c56ac1…247e67d7…2022-02-25 21:54:50 <awt> Dupe issue with trailing whitespace should be fixed in 9982 as well
f5be58536c350076…b4b66a7a…2022-02-27 23:45:24 <signpost> flurry of getdata happening on my end now, neato!
752cc502f5be5853…f5be5853…2022-02-27 23:46:22 <signpost> asciilifeform: I have yet to see your message appear on console
12ad2ab3752cc502…752cc502…2022-02-27 23:46:29 <signpost> got a few old ones with timestamps in msg body
e5b4755600fe2edb…bee2a067…2022-02-27 23:48:10 asciilifeform notices his last msg apparently went to devnull
933c364c00fe2edb…00fe2edb…2022-02-27 23:48:15 <signpost> from logs, seems like I'm possibly issuing GETDATA to peers but not getting responses
74a8c5110000000095a90585…2022-02-25 22:56:57 <PeterL> yay! (hopefully I don't kill the bot anymore?)
e1dcb70374a8c511…7ea59270…2022-02-25 23:14:10 <billymg> starting here, this is all playback of messages while the bot was down?
c53e2e1519fab54e…19fab54e…2022-02-25 23:18:05 <billymg> interesting, i never received this echo from bitbot in my console here
7703a9e81ba24775…1ba24775…2022-02-25 23:46:03 <awt> Bot also didn't seem to get any GETDATA responses for my prior messages.
0719a62e7703a9e8…c53e2e15…2022-02-26 16:37:02 <billymg> awt: yeah, i noticed that. i did get them in my console here though
ffe9abbb0719a62e…0719a62e…2022-02-26 16:37:31 <billymg> i started my human pest station first, then a few minutes later the bot's
6c5ecb536422ff1a…6422ff1a…2022-02-26 16:50:47 <billymg> that's weird, bot received that one as a playback message: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-26#1003788
e1fb63826c5ecb53…6c5ecb53…2022-02-26 16:51:15 <billymg> i'm also still not seeing bot echos in my console here, is anyone else seeing them in their irc console?
b4a1285ae1fb6382…d4983c8f…2022-02-26 17:09:43 <shinohai> Now I am seeing PeterL's messages as hearsay ... and billymg continues same as before despite fact I haz keys for both.
78dcc4e800000000993d844b…2022-02-27 06:27:09 <jonsykkel> billymg: looks exelent a+, no complaints. ty for puting it up
1aa80440b0b45533…aa7332c4…2022-03-11 23:53:37 <PeterL> trying to wrap my head around regular expressions, anybody see what is wrong with """^:([^!]+)\!\S+\s+PRIVMSG\s+\#(\S+)\s+\:(.*)""" trying to match ':PeterL PRIVMSG #pest :!s uptime' ?
c03b2b9c1aa80440…b0b45533…2022-03-12 00:02:42 <awt> PeterL: could try messing around with it here: https://regexr.com/
eacb201d0000000078dcc4e8…2022-02-27 06:34:39 <jonsykkel> will presrs blata9982 and test peering in coupl days when have more internet. thought my pnoje-tethered inet was imposible to pest throguh but i had done 2 seprate udpsockets in my prog for listening and sending. after puting same sock it wokrs with no forwarding even through this retarded connection (peered with natless p
94f8608f000000006b8d24d0…2022-02-27 23:41:11 <signpost> seems like a great time for decentralized, nuclear-resistant chats eh? lol
bee2a06794f8608f…f938ee94…2022-02-27 23:46:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: awt did warn re 5min delay on boot iirc
62cb1c980ed95e28…0ed95e28…2022-02-27 23:45:10 <asciilifeform> 'asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|billymg] | wb signpost'
3103842e37237bea…37237bea…2022-02-27 23:56:53 <signpost> looks like a few messages missing compared to bitdash logs, but perhaps they'll trickle in yet
874d53203103842e…3103842e…2022-02-27 23:57:10 <signpost> not a complaint, just reporting what's happening if useful.
58d19f1d874d5320…61f46ec5…2022-02-28 02:09:00 <awt> asciilifeform: unclear if jonsykkel is running updated blatta, so might still be creating dupes
aaad8fca58d19f1d…58d19f1d…2022-02-28 02:09:44 <awt> it is possible not to get the full dump if certain conditions arise
d86bc711aaad8fca…aaad8fca…2022-02-28 02:10:47 <awt> ie currently chain considered repaired if the tip is up to date, even if the chain is broken further up. so once the latest message gets out of the order buffer and into the long buffer, chain is "repaired"
a12b8cc5e27ca6ff…e27ca6ff…2022-02-28 02:14:32 <awt> looks like blatta has an issue displaying IRC style ACTION messages
bfb9771cec6f1daa…ec6f1daa…2022-02-28 02:18:44 <awt> a hrm actually the issue seems to be ACTION messages with a timestamp prepended
52db8a66bd7ad4ae…bfb9771c…2022-02-28 18:39:28 <awt> Blatta update: commencing work on partial support for PROD packets. Should help with missing messages in some cases.
b60f1fb952db8a66…52db8a66…2022-02-28 20:52:47 <awt> I might have to move here permanently. For whatever reason verisimilitude both bores the hell out of me and drives me nuts
a4e689670000000074a8c511…2022-02-28 20:52:46 <PeterL> is vex better or worse? at least with vex it is usually a big block of text in the middle of the night, so easy to skip over in the log
e6d99c649e2ab68d…9b551dee…2022-02-28 20:58:20 <signpost> awt: yeah, but keep in mind that tmsr failed first at assimilation, then at everything else.
4700bfcce6d99c64…e6d99c64…2022-02-28 20:58:30 <signpost> I'm not arguing with him because he's making me upset.
62695d534700bfcc…71358e32…2022-02-28 20:58:51 asciilifeform wonders why sees timestamps in almost erry msg
8458ba2da78a538e…62695d53…2022-02-28 20:59:51 <asciilifeform> btw '2022-02-28 15:59:10: ACTION seeing them in bounces and ACTION messages' << moar bug?
e201da0a8458ba2d…8458ba2d…2022-02-28 21:00:38 <asciilifeform> hmm and billymg's bot also recv'd barf?
b91feb3ee201da0a…e201da0a…2022-02-28 21:00:41 <asciilifeform> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=tTDv << what was sent
376990ddb91feb3e…b91feb3e…2022-02-28 21:01:16 <asciilifeform> awt: with all due respect the current ver. of blatta imho inedibly buggy
6c885f83376990dd…376990dd…2022-02-28 21:01:52 <asciilifeform> a good %% of what asciilifeform threw in, thus far, didn't come out on any end, or came out mangled beyond recognition
c0ccd15d6c885f83…a78a538e…2022-02-28 21:02:32 <signpost> might want to get everyone up to date first, iirc that was a hypothesis on cause
650cc6e41d2f6cbf…1d2f6cbf…2022-02-28 21:04:37 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform is thinking, for next spec rev., that timestamps in playbacks oughta be emitted outta band (e.g. wallop to irc client) rather than inband (i.e. chomping away part of space avail. for msg text)
888cd897650cc6e4…650cc6e4…2022-02-28 21:04:56 <asciilifeform> that way also could handle'em in a log bot appropriately (or not)
9e708ef2888cd897…9e2ab68d…2022-02-28 21:32:23 <awt> asciilifeform: how do you know everyone but the bot didn't get your message?
7984f748385d010a…385d010a…2022-02-28 21:36:06 <awt> asciilifeform: read log re: timestamps: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-26#1003810
80443469385d010a…385d010a…2022-02-28 21:36:06 <awt> asciilifeform: read log re: timestamps: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-26#1003810
61e0a0737984f748…80443469…2022-02-28 21:40:45 <awt> asciilifeform: not sure why but the logger reported this for my line yesterday about theh ACTION message issue: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-28#1003854, which was: a hrm actually the issue seems to be ACTION messages with a timestamp prepended
69412c4961e0a073…61e0a073…2022-02-28 21:43:02 <awt> I have this in my log going to your client: INFO 2022-02-27 18:18:44,597: [71.191.220.241:10628 asciilifeform] <- BROADCAST a hrm actually the issue... Did you receive?
abfb4d9369412c49…69412c49…2022-02-28 21:44:14 <awt> how do you know that bot received barf and isn't just producing barf? Why assume that?
0e002f1cabfb4d93…abfb4d93…2022-02-28 21:46:04 <awt> asciilifeform: I can't debug missing messages from you if you don't tell me what messages are missing
de7b26917c5d777f…0f7909cc…2022-02-28 21:52:37 <awt> asciilifeform: also if you belive others are not getting your messages, you can verify through the debug log which I have shared: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/logs/
ba334fac7734c7da…888cd897…2022-02-28 22:35:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-28#1003876 << good point awt
e1c42bc27734c7da…888cd897…2022-02-28 22:35:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-28#1003876 << good point awt
d357a8b5ba334fac…e1c42bc2…2022-02-28 22:36:15 <asciilifeform> hm and still receiving self-echos, e.g. just nao 'asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|signpost] ...'
b3678f3bcbac282f…7734c7da…2022-02-28 22:46:30 <awt> as per several previous comments asciilifeform we will be getting echos when there is whitespace at the end as long as jonsykkel is running 9983
d493e4e44c78fe4b…b3678f3b…2022-02-28 22:47:02 <awt> at least, that's the best explanation I have for now
c7b87ebdd493e4e4…4c78fe4b…2022-02-28 22:39:53 <asciilifeform> dunthink i put a whitespc at the end there tho
0ef65f3bc7b87ebd…d493e4e4…2022-02-28 22:47:36 <awt> if you tab complete, you'll get whitespace after the name
38122af800000000a4e68967…2022-02-28 22:39:53 <PeterL> awt: do I need to do anything to migrate the db from 9983 to 9982, or does that just happen automatically when I run 9982 the first time?
93df315d38122af8…0ef65f3b…2022-02-28 22:51:53 <awt> PeterL: the migration happens automatically. Do back up your db, however.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain e813a09b7139db169a3f7e474afb3fefe788e6d4bef2485cca745442a38e49bb) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
62d26bd00000000038122af8…2022-02-28 22:41:10 <PeterL> I don't need no stinking backups, bonzai! (j/k)
3403769f4757302d…4757302d…2022-02-28 22:47:59 <PeterL> awt: maybe change the example start script to not use --log-level since it is not an option anymore?
75c699304cdbccc2…c03b2b9c…2022-03-12 00:03:35 <awt> The problem with bot regexes earlier has been that blatta doesn't include a host
49d3ef5d309c1c1e…9550d8b2…2022-02-28 23:00:14 <PeterL> I feel like with the new version there is a lot more lag than the previous version?
3ff08fc35952d20e…ac6a9e61…2022-03-11 23:58:27 <PeterL> ah, right, so it wouldn't match what you would see from other servers
5e8d1966315a51ce…75c69930…2022-03-12 00:07:36 <awt> PeterL: not sure, would be nice to see the from field from asciilifeform
4d7f4a6c3dee0287…3dee0287…2022-03-12 00:13:10 <PeterL> aha, this looks like it worked: ^:(\S+)\s+PRIVMSG\s+\#(\S+)\s+\:(.*)
bbfd9a2a88456414…a9440368…2022-03-12 00:16:47 <PeterL> looks like I [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-11#1083977 ][just missed] having an article to scoop while I was poking around with this one
df8f2485bbfd9a2a…88456414…2022-03-12 00:22:41 <awt> Reminder: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-04#1004112
171ebb6ddf8f2485…106f7de3…2022-03-12 00:22:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-04 20:21:43 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: Also, wrt 3rd party stations, I propose adding a /track <handle> command to have handles from 3rd party stations show up in your nicklist. /untrack to remove.
989bfb584b6d9ed4…bbfd9a2a…2022-03-12 00:18:43 <PeterL> so hearsay messages do not automatically add the person to the user list, you have to do it manually? could there be a knob to automatically add hearsy names?
d3f25aa2989bfb58…4b6d9ed4…2022-03-12 00:24:41 <awt> PeterL: how long should they stay, when should they go away? Should they persist in the db?
3fe91942d3f25aa2…989bfb58…2022-03-12 00:19:23 <PeterL> or, is there any downside to just adding all the names you see in hearsay?
b31667733fe91942…3fe91942…2022-03-12 00:20:00 <PeterL> ah, I guess somebody could spam you with /nick and fill your db up with trash?
09b3f03b5b12b2e0…5b12b2e0…2022-03-12 00:26:15 <awt> maybe jonsykkel has already implemented some sort of solution
8ac3d78f09b3f03b…b3166773…2022-03-12 00:21:39 <PeterL> would it make sense to have all your peers always visible, just marked as away if they have not been seen in a while?
9569b7488ac3d78f…8ac3d78f…2022-03-12 00:22:38 <PeterL> really, they should be there in the list, since as soon as you reconnect they will see any messages you have sent with their getdata?
1e0dca589569b748…09b3f03b…2022-03-12 00:31:14 <awt> hmm I'm not sure. in IRC when they're not in your nicklist it's because you can't contact them. same is true with the current configuration. If you're not receiving IGNOREs from them, they're not gonna get your message. Could be because they're offline, or their config is messed up...
47c828701e0dca58…1e0dca58…2022-03-12 00:31:43 <awt> I mean they're get it if they come back online, but who knows when that will be?
130b322d606fad0e…606fad0e…2022-03-12 00:39:40 <awt> PeterL: also you can just set o peer_offline_interval_seconds to a really high number
c420df27763f86f0…763f86f0…2022-03-12 03:24:33 <awt> for those having issues seeing peers only via hearsay, I'll repost this thread: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-04#1004114
971c0a1a75c397e1…75c397e1…2022-03-12 03:45:54 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-12#1004536 <<< am now back, both bot station and myself happily talking.
6008b7c4971c0a1a…726d9099…2022-03-12 03:46:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-12 02:52:28 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: and shinohai is now offline
84893f6456f32f67…45c4141c…2022-03-12 10:07:16 <u0_a185> The bot has been up for: 1 minutes and 29 seconds
5abf5f7ed9f0bb84…84893f64…2022-03-12 10:36:28 <u0_a185> The next difficulty adjustment for BTC will occur in appx. 800 blocks ~ 5 d 18 h 26 m
ed98dc6d5abf5f7e…77a1183a…2022-03-12 12:59:29 <scoopbot> New post on btcinfo: [ http://btc.info.gf/blog/adventures-in-pest-testnet---blatta-updates-and-bots.html ][ Adventures in pest testnet - Blatta updates and bots ]
2945e744ed98dc6d…dadc519f…2022-03-12 15:25:04 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-12#1004531 << this makes sense to me.
dc9c7c852945e744…6008b7c4…2022-03-12 15:25:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-12 00:30:50 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: hmm I'm not sure. in IRC when they're not in your nicklist it's because you can't contact them. same is true with the current configuration. If you're not receiving IGNOREs from them, they're not gonna get your message. Could be because they're offline, or their
b9e904e53ed12f4c…d9f0bb84…2022-03-12 15:40:26 <shinohai> feels good, just need signpost to spin up deedbot, and asciilifeform to bring watchglass.
4ece361b5935a070…00000000…2022-03-12 16:31:24 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain be368a97281a97a0e3fa786fd68a9d9af5c9c1ba315366d81aca99f2919fc4b6) prior to <awt> ---
9550d8b241b508d3…41b508d3…2022-02-28 22:57:59 <PeterL> is it normal to get a wall of text a couple minutes after connecting?
ce84b937815acd76…9799cf82…2022-02-28 23:24:27 <awt> Yep, I'm seeing way too many GETDATA messages from people that have not been offline
97134c36ce84b937…ce84b937…2022-02-28 23:26:47 <awt> I think message order is, tragically, getting messed up in the order queue and the chain tips are getting updated to the wrong messages.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2f3c4cfbf2ef1b9b18e57dbc4baa7c8dae20b3f54995e26c355496ab9ef7b10e) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 28e14782d3c743f4c4f11b2af39767e95bffcd44e8f1e463e1b92a7eb0e3ad40) prior to <jonsykkel> ---
8ebf2d59dbf26d1a…49d3ef5d…2022-03-01 13:42:37 <PeterL> awt: http://btc.info.gf/paste/467a4e@raw crashed, you know what this error message means?
18eb7db4dbf26d1a…dbf26d1a…2022-03-02 12:11:08 <jonsykkel> irssi displays notices in window associated with channel arg to NOTICE (#pest, or name of guy for pms)
aead71158ebf2d59…289a6cd6…2022-03-01 15:52:42 <awt> PeterL: I haven't seen this exception before. Are you perhaps on a laptop where the network interface is going up/down?
8eea9286aead7115…aead7115…2022-03-01 15:53:50 <awt> jonsykkel: true whaack and mod6 appear to be offline from here as well
ec91187f0538c41b…0538c41b…2022-03-02 12:14:34 <jonsykkel> looking at gode seems blata always puts ur own name there which means they al end up in (status) window
7cc468a58eea9286…8ebf2d59…2022-03-01 15:51:58 <PeterL> so looking at that on a laptop, but it was plugged in all night, and it has always been pretty stable in the past
affadcf9ec91187f…ec91187f…2022-03-02 12:14:55 <jonsykkel> tested this with weechat also and iirc it worked differently
6f5d1ccd7cc468a5…8eea9286…2022-03-01 15:56:13 <awt> PeterL: anything in syslog indicating network downtime?
c3976980f261e79b…f64324fd…2022-03-02 17:59:05 <PeterL> awt: i thought I saw somewhwere that commands are now %-prefixed, but it still seems to need / ?
a1e03578c0087b9f…c3976980…2022-03-02 18:03:23 <PeterL> hmm, if I do it in chan, % works, but if I am on the console it only works with / ?
3ac26192b1d9b26f…b6ff4458…2022-03-01 16:00:30 <awt> PeterL: supports one command: echo. For sanity checks when lines aren't showing up in the log, etc.
f64324fd3ac26192…b1d9b26f…2022-03-01 15:58:15 <PeterL> ah, I see. Are you going to add more functions to it?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 4df7083be28f64a733d8417c5ebb5ac908afb52f8235f8b86921b4edc7239b1d) prior to <awt> ---
afdd26d04df7083b…4df7083b…2022-03-01 16:08:20 <awt> As a minimum case to ensure blatta is funcioning at a basic level.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 0d1dde60dd7925af7bf58a4ed5ac0e2dcbb5a01c9693564a5d16e61b97953337) prior to <billymg> ---
4bae9b660d1dde60…0d1dde60…2022-03-01 16:22:49 <billymg> asciilifeform: do you see bitbot's echos in your console by any chance?
45b1e04ddb297cb3…64dec148…2022-03-01 16:22:49 <asciilifeform> billymg: not since pressed awt's latest ver
c571fb4645b1e04d…db297cb3…2022-03-01 16:31:43 <billymg> actually, sorry, the bot's pest station logs show that it's relaying my "!. uptime" message to asciilifeform, not its response. its responses don't show up anywhere in the station logs
3a8e18a1c571fb46…afdd26d0…2022-03-01 17:13:25 <awt> how does asciilifeform envison timestamp wallops to look?
58931b563a8e18a1…45b1e04d…2022-03-01 17:30:03 <asciilifeform> awt: was thinking, simply precede erry replayed msg w/ 1 wallop containing e.g. 'Replay: 2022-03-01 10:57:19:'
bdf828f958931b56…58931b56…2022-03-01 17:30:45 <asciilifeform> afaik there's no way to make this (and many other ircisms) entirely un-ugly
36e62405bdf828f9…3a8e18a1…2022-03-01 23:59:24 <awt> asciilifeform: why wallop and not notice? wallops seems kind of weird
e54b666236e62405…bdf828f9…2022-03-01 23:59:46 <asciilifeform> awt: notice (at least on irssi) dun appear in all sessions
f054d107e54b6662…e54b6662…2022-03-02 00:00:09 <asciilifeform> what you want is for it to be visible under any circumstances immediately above the pertinent msg
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 1612ea59988998be6c4a08fa95b720c22a23b7bc547846371845041e59e4c459) prior to <awt> ---
264970c73987028c…3987028c…2022-03-02 18:11:38 <awt> Also, I'm only gonna emit timestamp notices for messages dropping out of the order queue that are backdated, not for messages coming straight through the short buffer that are coming from machines with significant clock skew
5c29172ddf817afe…f054d107…2022-03-02 18:20:55 <asciilifeform> awt: would make sense to emit'em only for getdata'd msgs
e5a876ad10dee21f…26bd2435…2025-11-18 19:40:01 <asciilifeform> s1gnp0st: your packets' init bounce may be too low (i.e. they appear on my station but not the loggers)
212a6f7110dee21f…6e57c42a…2025-11-19 03:02:46 <awt> signpost: my main station didn't get any of your new pest station's messages if you sent any today.
3805f62710dee21f…6f985950…2025-11-19 03:04:31 <awt> In other news just hooked up claude code direclty to a shopify account. I just tell claude code what to do and it manages products, orders, etc. for me. Potentially no longer will have to use the web interface.
aca1381fe5a876ad…e5a876ad…2025-11-18 19:40:31 <asciilifeform> or hm nm, loox like billymg's logger is having trouble
eb50f2ba3805f627…56cc4f5a…2025-11-19 16:33:18 <billymg> signpost: looks like something shook it loose http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-18#1035627
ff3bd079eb50f2ba…eb50f2ba…2025-11-19 16:33:36 <billymg> it made it to my personal station when you originally sent it, not sure why the delay to bitbot
6796536e6cea5dbf…6cea5dbf…2025-11-18 19:41:21 <asciilifeform> could still be a bounce issue with s1gnp0st's pestron
e03a1911ff3bd079…3805f627…2025-11-19 16:56:38 <awt> At some point I'm going to analyze the logs and figure out just how broken the message chain is.
56c4c3126796536e…201e0694…2025-11-18 22:14:30 <signpost> quite likely that mine is still farting invalid messages for a few reasons, but ty! will look at that specifically.
774f1f69e03a1911…56c4c312…2025-11-19 17:34:51 <signpost> I do suspect that I'm running into broken chain issues on my end trying to get "tempest" (don't think anyone used that name yet?) fully synced
a9bee439b5850d5f…b5850d5f…2022-03-02 20:59:21 <awt> http://thimbron.com/2022/03/blatta-9981-replay-notices/
23626d30774f1f69…774f1f69…2025-11-19 17:36:16 <signpost> awt is there any permissiveness off the top of your head that I should be aware of to be blatta compatible?
90a17ec452fb284d…a9bee439…2022-03-02 21:00:45 <awt> billymg: hopefully this should fix issues with your logger ^
7b596b63ae83d69a…048a8479…2025-11-19 19:25:20 <awt_printer> signpost: I don't think it's a matter of permissiveness. It should swallow anything that's not a dupe.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 758fd2652b03051443da5e10780e50e71ab4df070976434e5f16150512c2d71d) prior to <billymg> ---
78fbd99bf3bc394e…fd19efe9…2022-03-02 21:47:18 <awt> billymg: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ZQS82W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
7fa5af6b78fbd99b…84135fbb…2022-03-02 21:50:44 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-02#1004020
79c32ca90c0859d5…0c0859d5…2022-03-02 21:52:21 <billymg> awt: do you see bitbot's messages in your console?
209364a8c6c6b675…c6c6b675…2022-03-02 21:54:42 <billymg> i could try restarting the bot, hasn't been restarted since 9983
bc91b49c209364a8…9b43b56d…2022-03-02 21:55:15 <awt> billymg: I'm not sure how to procede other than standing up my own logger
d66aca6bbc91b49c…bc91b49c…2022-03-02 21:56:10 <awt> more custom logger would be interesting btw - directly accesses blatta.db
19a9873f5621ae3b…5621ae3b…2022-03-02 21:58:46 <awt> Actually a script could be written that generates static html logs from blatta.db which could be added to crontab
3cfdab62ccd18107…209364a8…2022-03-02 22:00:31 <billymg> ok, restarted the bot, let's see http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-02#1004042
40aa41973cfdab62…00000000…2022-03-02 22:00:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-02 21:59:20 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: fuck IRC as much as possible
5cdb3b615041dbc0…991e068b…2022-03-02 22:01:01 <billymg> i guess in the future when i upgrade the blatta station i'll also restart the bot
b129d74cff956900…5041dbc0…2022-03-02 22:02:17 <awt> are asciilifeform and jonsykkel peered with the bot billymg ?
e98ccb9481c2c5e8…52fb284d…2022-03-02 22:05:02 <PeterL> billymg, wouldn't the bot lose connection anyway when you restart blatta?
573809507e0ea6bf…81c2c5e8…2022-03-02 22:11:27 <billymg> PeterL: no, asciilifeform's logotron bot has had an auto-reconnect feature since genesis i believe
0f75a68757380950…57380950…2022-03-02 22:13:36 <billymg> not sure why the echos stopped working though, obviously something is getting messed up somewhere in that process
207706928399e740…0f75a687…2022-03-02 22:17:34 <billymg> awt: btw i like the inline output in this update
c09cddb6ca401d22…ca401d22…2022-03-02 22:18:18 <awt> FYI just noticed a bug in which rebroadcast messages always have a bounce count of 0.
f0424a7ae9c72f64…0822dbad…2022-03-03 16:57:33 <billymg> awt: in latest blatta press, the included "start_test_net.sh" script still uses --log-level
4485da84f0424a7a…e9c72f64…2022-03-03 17:11:25 <awt> billymg: oops, will catch that next time. Had no idea anyone but me was using that.
822e0e864485da84…4485da84…2022-03-03 17:11:48 <awt> Actually I'm not even using it anymore - everything is configured inside PyCharm
7cd3fafa83bba2c5…937815d8…2022-03-03 18:39:45 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-02-28#1003913 << didn't we already discuss?
1f6b1f367cd3fafa…40aa4197…2022-03-03 18:44:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-02-28 22:52:19 PeterL[asciilifeform|billymg]: 2022-02-28 22:47:59: awt: maybe change the example start script to not use --log-level since it is not an option anymore?
6e96a9181f6b1f36…83bba2c5…2022-03-03 19:14:33 <awt> PeterL: yeah discussed - last patch didn't include it. I'm trying to make smaller patches that can be backed out easily if the break something.
de115ce26e96a918…6e96a918…2022-03-03 19:15:40 <awt> About to publish a patch that includes this change, fwiw
4c045228de115ce2…de115ce2…2022-03-03 19:16:20 <awt> As always, will be happy to review and sign any patches submitted by others.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7dc8460dee8c7f03a6ef1f97d88ab2d048cf4fb83408c6a3e6f712e4c5e6d5a3) prior to <awt> ---
3e4aa7237dc8460d…bca4da12…2022-03-04 20:37:04 <awt> I currently don't see anyone I have added to my wot as hearsay, so I will need help from the affected parties to debug
7c906195de067943…3f6fe715…2022-03-16 21:41:00 <signpost> awt: if your test harness ends up written at the protocol level, could be a handy tool for your lisp impl.
0af4d4c57c906195…7c906195…2022-03-16 21:41:15 <signpost> as thing stand you are likely to get to that step before me. happy to help as I can.
ea6e2db80af4d4c5…9554bfeb…2022-03-16 23:09:43 <awt> signpost: I would probably need lots of help. I'm a total lisp n00b. Likeley to make fatal design flaws.
0d9814ea19d209c2…19d209c2…2022-03-05 17:06:53 <u0_a185> Not currently, just tested from x86 box, will try to cross-compile for arm later this afternoon.
413ee9dd14b50fc8…83911051…2022-03-15 22:19:47 <mod6> awt: ty, seems like my share.alethepedia.com/blatta/ was stale. eek. will grab the rest and reset when I can. cheers.
ee2bd3091d2e3f56…1d2e3f56…2022-03-09 00:12:50 <u0_a185> Only strange I have at moment is can receive DM's but sending seems to get lost. (May hafta do with being connected to znc? Will investigate)
dcb458d91a764150…7e8d01fe…2022-03-09 02:24:12 <awt> Maybe would be nice to have a message come through on the channel saying the station is awaiting GE
8d7439659f23eee0…bd908bf0…2022-03-16 14:30:51 <PeterL> hmm, scoopbot here did not call out verisimiltudes latest post, but the one on #asciilifeform did. no idea why
c20b24cf27b6c6cd…27b6c6cd…2022-03-16 14:32:48 <PeterL> ah, scoopbot is talking, but it is not showing up here.
170a96e92024482d…c20b24cf…2022-03-16 15:09:23 <PeterL> so it looks like scoopbot saw my message and answered, but the blatta station did not acknowledge the bot's message.
56239df573096789…baf5adf4…2022-03-09 17:08:47 <shinohai> Still testing smalpest on android, so far 0 crashes.
e5c7517c73096789…388b834a…2022-06-19 16:42:09 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
9bc9918e1da7b2f8…170a96e9…2022-03-16 15:36:35 <PeterL> hmm, this is what it sent: 'PRIVMSG #pest :L: time since my last reconnect : 3d 7h 30m'
a226bc7556239df5…56239df5…2022-03-09 17:16:22 <shinohai> No love trying to connect a bot yet, need more time to read all the irc implementations again.
512e8548e5c7517c…e893eb99…2022-06-19 16:43:17 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000367 << behold the ocean of liquishit surrounding this
6cfb8090a226bc75…fdc6d711…2022-03-09 18:00:11 <awt> shinohai: you want to see the source to pestbot?
b0a11f8c512e8548…512e8548…2022-06-19 16:44:04 <asciilifeform> aaand of course the replays aint marked in any useful way
8be1fa50512e8548…e3d34194…2022-06-19 16:45:22 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 12:39:45 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-18#1000033 << dupe >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000185
f9e0d075a7aa2837…9bc9918e…2022-03-16 15:40:57 <PeterL> I think it is supposed to be the username? more digging needed apparently
d5dbaf366cfb8090…73096789…2022-03-09 18:00:15 <PeterL> Why do canadian geese always fly south in a V formation? To celebrate the victory over the Americans, the fucking occupiers!
cc7a0e29b0a11f8c…454cb4f7…2022-06-19 16:55:05 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007605 << don't know what you mean here
194b97fd8be1fa50…ad717aa8…2022-06-19 16:46:27 <asciilifeform> awt: it's shitting firehose of ancient replay straight into log
546e65b9f9e0d075…a7aa2837…2022-03-16 15:58:11 <awt> PeterL: here are some examples of PRIVMSGs from the rfc: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1459#section-4.4.1
87afc1accc7a0e29…3740ff41…2022-06-19 16:47:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 16:45:43 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000367 << behold the ocean of liquishit surrounding this
4487a22a546e65b9…546e65b9…2022-03-16 15:58:48 <awt> Obviously scoopbot's formatting works with ascii's irc server tho
e589c62f87afc1ac…8be1fa50…2022-06-19 16:45:57 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 12:39:45 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-18#1000033 << dupe >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000185
7a723dbb87afc1ac…cc7a0e29…2022-06-19 16:55:29 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007606 << not a lot of information for me to work with here
0facb98a7a723dbb…87afc1ac…2022-06-19 16:48:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 16:46:30 asciilifeform: aaand of course the replays aint marked in any useful way
ab2826eb2d28445c…edb62e3b…2022-06-19 16:51:02 <asciilifeform> awt: it's arguably entirely expected, but makes the log into fucking unusable soup!!
f2e5519605611be1…05611be1…2022-03-16 16:02:58 <PeterL> the weird thing is that it was working the other day, but now it isn't
1e69af73ab2826eb…ab2826eb…2022-06-19 16:51:28 <asciilifeform> it's coupla months of msg in ~random order!! intermixed with current convo.
d99b44d72b84bd80…1da7b2f8…2022-03-16 16:35:12 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 3 days 23 hours 27 minutes and 8 seconds
53972965d99b44d7…4487a22a…2022-03-16 17:24:13 <awt> PeterL: you don't happen to have a record of what the raw messages looked like when it was working do you?
2d68ded953972965…53972965…2022-03-16 17:30:36 <awt> I should at some point write a test that exercises the IRC command parser
9b4e14602d68ded9…2d68ded9…2022-03-16 17:31:12 <awt> although honestly I'm getting to the point of wanting to switch over to lisp
9554bfeb9b4e1460…9b4e1460…2022-03-16 17:33:32 <awt> Although really that shouldn't be before blatta implements the "final solution" for fork detection so that can be tested out
fad6c114c8a3b9e3…f2e55196…2022-03-16 17:53:54 <PeterL> the one that came through looked like 'PRIVMSG #pest :I am 'Scoopbot' version 693657.'
5980da6a88484c89…ea1e142b…2022-03-16 20:33:18 <mod6> good! need to update to latest blatta. how about you guys?
346dbdee5980da6a…88484c89…2022-03-16 20:37:34 <shinohai> not bad here, slaving away in the shitcoin mines trying to stack coin
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 4ffc8786c718bbbb8d61196bf0263783b9b9416e2d641065d2ed7a73a0766af2) prior to <awt_thule> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 42b5f257a97ce63040874e2243a57491c1fe586336167983cea4aea30997700f) prior to <awt_thule> ---
8e6563fa42b5f257…99cce903…2022-03-06 00:13:40 <awt_thule> I like snerpent as a name much better than serpent. Should tweak the algo in some minor way and call it snerpent.
d506905b8e6563fa…e28b835c…2022-03-06 00:55:10 <shinohai> snerpent is analogous to snek, so I liek too
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain cf067e5981b5175830f1b3e1c1096f4c57af73aec06fecd76368774f239de8d9) prior to <jonsykkel> ---
7a2bcf94cf067e59…cf067e59…2022-03-08 01:15:35 <jonsykkel> then when response comes bak or if request "times out", delete from list
59363d18badb2cfe…badb2cfe…2022-03-08 01:29:54 <jonsykkel> had some issues also, cant remember details
7780f75b59363d18…d506905b…2022-03-08 15:32:57 <shinohai> Testing jonsykkel's smalpest from android, now doesn't die when making getdata requests, but apparently doesn't see any messages at all.
0129367f59363d18…59363d18…2022-03-10 01:19:19 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-09#1004274 << :pest.net NOTICE name_of_guy :message
bdcef2b70129367f…0129367f…2022-03-10 01:21:13 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-09#1004297 << peer'd
7d917bfabdcef2b7…bdcef2b7…2022-03-10 01:24:18 <jonsykkel> PeterL left #pest right when i spoked, wander if my msg crashed his pestron
5a0bbf532fe43df2…2fe43df2…2022-03-08 16:01:10 shinohai will check router later, might have plugged that port after experimenting the other day and forgot ....
88a64e527d917bfa…7d917bfa…2022-03-10 01:34:51 <jonsykkel> or checking logs it seems to be a coincidence
9b13ebbe5a0bbf53…a578d55a…2022-03-08 18:36:15 <awt> lol not sure how awesome it is to be seeing join/part spam again
ac26c42a950b8242…e1d2be01…2022-03-10 14:27:00 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-09#1004300 << ack, just updated the peering info
c743f6f409c3b6f5…9b13ebbe…2022-03-08 18:37:24 <awt> asciilifeform: you need 9979. Wait for 9978 though, coming out today.
c85a1ddbac26c42a…76207241…2022-03-10 14:27:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-09 21:13:20 signpost[asciilifeform]: billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=zGDA << let's reattempt peering also
c564d4f4c743f6f4…08677dfe…2022-03-08 18:36:05 <PeterL> hi awt (just got the replay of you saying I was offline, I wonder why it showed up now?)
3a5aeb01c85a1ddb…ac26c42a…2022-03-10 14:27:59 <billymg> i'm on 9981 currently, will upgrade to 9978 once that's available
704f5dbe3e0d5508…3e0d5508…2022-03-11 03:26:12 <jonsykkel> does seem to wokr if u put teh guys name as the server name
e24224e7704f5dbe…704f5dbe…2022-03-11 03:27:58 <jonsykkel> :peechat_destination NOTICE irssi_destination :message
996c3ca7d801d09e…c743f6f4…2022-03-08 18:41:12 <awt> PeterL: fixes a bug causing repeat GetData requests to go out, and another bug causing blatta to crash when running $at in certain cases
b393ed70a95e1840…7f39733a…2022-03-10 15:32:44 <PeterL> ok, now running on 9979 patched to handle date error
e1d2be01996c3ca7…1d79abc1…2022-03-08 18:41:17 <billymg> i'm still on 9981 here, furthest i've fallen behind but everything is working fine
bc16797e72c0ed65…885d57c2…2022-03-11 06:15:10 <signpost> https://archive.ph/999vr << super srs denial of DoD bioweapon labs in ukraine.
e813f710e1d2be01…d801d09e…2022-03-08 18:38:10 <PeterL> I don't remember, did you already fix the bug where it would crash things if you tried to unpeer somebody?
0701e113e8dfc307…e8dfc307…2022-03-10 15:45:58 <PeterL> Or I guess I could make it as a vpatch: http://peterl.xyz/lib/blatta-fix-timestamp-error.vpatch http://peterl.xyz/lib/blatta-fix-timestamp-error.vpatch.peterl.sig
aee813c0e813f710…996c3ca7…2022-03-08 18:42:40 <awt> PeterL: you saw the replay now because this is the first time I've broadcast since you came back online. Haven't implemented PROD yet, so your station doesn't know to send GetData until it gets a broadcast with a bad self or net chain.
07d2306b0701e113…92b14cd0…2022-03-10 16:33:05 <signpost> billymg: looks like you're still bouncing through asciilifeform
9a77ee2e52d39eab…e813f710…2022-03-08 18:39:29 <PeterL> aha, I see. I also got a replay from Billymg, probably same reason
b28d48fbe2915ef9…e2915ef9…2022-03-10 16:41:44 <billymg> one of these days i'll commit to figuring it out
a18276d09a77ee2e…52d39eab…2022-03-08 18:43:46 <awt> billymg: 9979 is cool because it lets you see when stations are online/offline/idle.
4f720c9cb28d48fb…07d2306b…2022-03-10 17:06:29 <signpost> billymg: what's your address and port, just for shits and giggles
90f90227a18276d0…9a77ee2e…2022-03-08 18:39:56 <PeterL> pretty cool that you get the old messages that you missed while disconnected
01fd82eb1cf17447…a95e1840…2022-03-10 17:08:40 <shinohai> billymg and PeterL both bouncing through signpost still for me, despite fact I have 'em in AT
99ef180101fd82eb…01fd82eb…2022-03-10 17:09:50 <shinohai> awt: Just saw message re: bot source and thanks, I might take a peek but honestly not wanting to rewrite all of current bot functions in python.
6e046b4099ef1801…5c52b00e…2022-03-10 17:10:08 <signpost> shinohai: huh, that's extra weird that billymg is bouncing through me according to you, but we can't peer
9a9b927733495fce…99ef1801…2022-03-10 17:12:18 <shinohai> signpost: observe - http://btc.info.gf/uploads/BOUNCE.png
90e50e854aacba6f…9a9b9277…2022-03-10 17:16:08 <shinohai> Dunno, every time I press new blatta I start "clean" ... fresh db and add peers back manually.
824711414aacba6f…1cf17447…2022-03-10 17:16:37 <billymg> i see e.g. shinohai[jonsykkel|PeterL|asciilifeform] and signpost[jonsykkel|asciilifeform|PeterL]
e2e2186490e50e85…82471141…2022-03-10 17:17:42 <billymg> what's the weechat method for issuing commands? i'm on another machine without the pest commands aliased
92867793ecfa7b3f…c192a0de…2022-03-10 17:20:10 <shinohai> (or can also set `/set irc.network.send_unknown_commands on` to allow w/out quoting)
e8a7b72e92867793…ecfa7b3f…2022-03-10 17:25:51 <billymg> shinohai: oh neat, that's worked. way easier than aliasing the commands individually
aceafcde463ef580…57ca5502…2022-03-10 17:25:57 <asciilifeform> shinohai: what are you pesting with atm ? for a while only seeing your msgs as hearsay
f9f13cb1aceafcde…92867793…2022-03-10 17:26:46 <shinohai> I'm using most recent blatta. Also seeing YOUR messages as hearsay, again via signpost.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7d4f47e9f61a99234ee0c35ff6b73a10b84aab7a8519eebbf519163d457a7ec3) prior to <awt> ---
3c8c31db7d4f47e9…7d4f47e9…2022-03-09 20:25:43 <awt> Not sure if there's a way to send notices to DM buffers
9810634a3c8c31db…3c8c31db…2022-03-09 20:26:50 <awt> Current price for a cup of coffee before tax is roughly $7.00
b47b7f411c795ffd…d5dbaf36…2022-03-09 20:24:00 <PeterL> if I pay that much for a drink I would want it to have some alcohol in it
e6bc2e67b47b7f41…1c795ffd…2022-03-09 20:30:19 <awt> This is a cool site, btw: https://pricedinbitcoin21.com/landing
b177d6e6e6bc2e67…e6bc2e67…2022-03-09 20:31:02 <awt> PeterL: no idea how much drinks containing potent amounts of alcohol cost
c73a3b2ebd21d22d…bd21d22d…2022-03-09 20:51:37 <signpost> going to make 2020 look like "mostly peaceful rioting"
292c5bb9f576402e…5fd026c2…2022-03-09 20:52:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: moar or less all rioting in usa for past ~century -- on command from center, rather than egypt-style
886ec188292c5bb9…f576402e…2022-03-09 20:53:35 signpost curious what entertainment awaits when the psych meds stop flowing from the center.
84e0a136886ec188…f9f9fdcc…2022-03-09 20:48:32 <PeterL> signpost: send me a key, or do you want me to generate one?
09507d0384e0a136…886ec188…2022-03-09 20:54:12 <signpost> PeterL: I'm making ya one, will send shortly
57ca5502b7970452…292c5bb9…2022-03-09 20:57:09 <asciilifeform> signpost: the meds will prolly still get sent out long after water & mains quit, but whoknows
dde396cf57ca5502…b7970452…2022-03-09 20:53:39 <PeterL> signpost: based on my teen-aged children and their associate, it will result in lots of weeping and wailing and crippling depression
9b9c81a490e8883f…92fd7ae9…2022-03-09 21:04:40 <PeterL> you know what I don't miss from freenode? netsplits
8da6b2d69b9c81a4…90e8883f…2022-03-09 21:10:08 <signpost> jonsykkel: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_kjH << if you'd like to peer
c0b1b69a8da6b2d6…8da6b2d6…2022-03-09 21:10:20 <signpost> PeterL: yep, this is working mighty well, even in early days.
9c89c8199de7b224…c0b1b69a…2022-03-09 21:12:50 <signpost> billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=zGDA << let's reattempt peering also
e8db2b3f9c89c819…9c89c819…2022-03-09 21:13:12 <signpost> think that's everybody, gimme a holler if anyone else wants a peering.
52140672e8db2b3f…9de7b224…2022-03-09 21:08:13 <PeterL> awt: is there somewhere a list of all the commands that blatta handles?
8be5fefb52140672…e8db2b3f…2022-03-09 21:14:35 <signpost> can always reference the spec but I was going to suggest a help command that dumps usage text to console
197232958be5fefb…52140672…2022-03-09 21:09:49 <PeterL> I noticed the key-generating script got taken out in one of the recent patches, did that get moved into a different part of the source or just removed completely?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 0a20ff51074a0b6e26402c7e4e5ada39087c81a576e2492dff764732970fdc76) prior to <bitbot> ---
c1a9ce820a20ff51…88a7e710…2022-03-09 21:19:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-09 21:00:40 PeterL[asciilifeform|billymg]: "time to take our happy pills, yay!"
18eb4761c1a9ce82…19723295…2022-03-09 21:14:44 <PeterL> might depend on which chemical they are targetting
a512387a18eb4761…0a20ff51…2022-03-09 21:20:20 <signpost> I think in my case they were targeting "get this aggressive fucker out of my office", lol
dfba3332a512387a…18eb4761…2022-03-09 21:17:54 <PeterL> lol, it also seems to have helped that my oldest joined the track team. They are always last in every race but running helps with their sanity a bit
9505d3021415cf3a…1415cf3a…2022-03-09 21:41:04 <awt> Actually haven't ever run that scenario, where you have a message history from a hearsay station and then later peer with them. Interesting.
0e6eed66aef40ee3…dfba3332…2022-03-09 21:42:29 <PeterL> awt: what's the difference between the knobs rubbish_interval_seconds and rubbish_interval ?
a6f9df620e6eed66…9505d302…2022-03-09 21:48:16 <awt> signpost: latest is 9979. It actually might fix the timestamp issue you're seeing.
49f2fc9fa6f9df62…a6f9df62…2022-03-09 21:49:32 <awt> PeterL: rubbish_interval is obsolete. You must be seeing it in the knobs table. I didn't delete it in the migration.
205c85f12ea58ef1…49f2fc9f…2022-03-09 21:55:58 <awt> also achtung panzers, disocvered and fixed a spitoon full of bugs related to syncing dms via GETDATA this AM, will publish patch soon.
5c21ad63205c85f1…0e6eed66…2022-03-09 21:57:59 <PeterL> do you need to add (TM, asciilifeform) to the "achtung panzers"?
b03c8018460fa30c…460fa30c…2022-06-26 22:47:02 <whaack> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-09#1004302 <--- this was the last msg i got
ffd51ce4b03c8018…6c86816a…2022-06-26 22:49:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-09 21:14:07 PeterL[asciilifeform|billymg]: awt: is there somewhere a list of all the commands that blatta handles?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain af6f56024a7e319ccc27ec947b5f61555fd461b4ca140443da4b1994148d1c5c) prior to <shinohai> ---
76915ec83748755f…af6f5602…2022-03-10 17:28:25 <asciilifeform> shinohai: my at entry for you is dated 27 feb, loox like
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 79d87e72daad3554f6417e53b4156fcd3845f72a377fe04bc05c02cc336f2193) prior to <shinohai> ---
30387443c9771974…79d87e72…2022-03-10 17:26:42 <PeterL> awt: shinohai is not on my list of users, but I just saw a hearsay message from him, is this the expected behavior (on blatta 9979)?
48e772e7f6065c81…c9771974…2022-03-10 18:24:33 <shinohai> thx. weechat only client that worx for me on both pest implementations. ii worx with blatta, connects with smalpest but messages vanish into the void. None of my attempts to get bot working have bore fruit on either one.
e94d2e8d48e772e7…48e772e7…2022-03-10 18:24:58 <shinohai> weechat uses fifo, so guess I could always make bot out of that.
d01daf1de94d2e8d…f6065c81…2022-03-10 18:30:19 <signpost> shinohai: any way to get the server response in current buffer too?
68b77c5fd01daf1d…e94d2e8d…2022-03-10 18:33:48 <shinohai> signpost: not sure, but will post up if I figure out a way - that had actually been on my "todo" list.
d1ef254168b77c5f…68b77c5f…2022-03-10 18:34:06 shinohai shinohai likes how smalpest does this already ....
fb384c4ed1ef2541…d1ef2541…2022-03-10 18:49:20 <shinohai> Looks like you can `/buffer merge #pest` from the server buffer and it combines the two.
1fa37624fb384c4e…fb384c4e…2022-03-10 18:49:58 <shinohai> But still doesn't produce expected behaviour.
48aac2be1fa37624…d01daf1d…2022-03-10 18:58:10 <signpost> not a big deal, fine using the server buffer for that
ce4b6dc3042a107b…d8b75574…2022-03-10 19:35:49 <signpost> I notice that whaack and awt aren't listed in my nick list now
dd1065f72307faf9…2307faf9…2022-03-10 19:08:43 <signpost> shinohai: looks like this one sends notices for server command responses anyway, so all in one buffer
4fd17a2184509966…5b2c96fb…2023-02-16 20:53:48 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023381 << here, and somehow it's 13 now
0b344e2d4fd17a21…053b5cd0…2023-02-16 20:55:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 11:48:27 asciilifeform[crawlerbot]: cgra: if you have spare cycles, could plz post the messages that referenced the 12 mystery hashes ?
a5e6434d0b344e2d…5e49a58d…2023-02-16 20:55:30 <asciilifeform> cgra: some of these are likely phf's proto station with the hand-cranked packet shooter. but the rest -- mystery
ee535b2aa5e6434d…4fd17a21…2023-02-16 21:15:28 <cgra> signpost's b89568c80c1f7fd5676e08c1e129de1d7ba805db2441ecf3eb04c1b0a6555f08 presumably starts here. maybe billymg have some more avail
49c4dedd77a97c69…77a97c69…2023-02-17 01:35:24 <signpost> noticing a ton of lag interacting with this thing now.
3808793ec13e5c57…77b44e8e…2023-02-17 01:47:00 <signpost> there we go. was having a hard time getting the thing to respond, but found that order buffer knob wasn't set to zero.
ef126f94fa3b247e…8d4a6a84…2023-02-17 13:43:57 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023411 << done
9e3cbb73ef126f94…0b344e2d…2023-02-17 13:38:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 16:25:19 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: would billymg like to peer?
e7ccbd879e3cbb73…1197892c…2023-02-17 15:12:59 <cgra> billymg, ip addr i gave you is outdated, but also somehow no address cast success yet
f42a0ca1e7ccbd87…dc8a4c0c…2023-02-17 16:04:08 <awt> cgra: billymg is possibly running an older blatta
facd6096f42a0ca1…ef126f94…2023-02-17 16:20:20 <billymg> i've also historically had problems peering with some people
7333451cfacd6096…9e3cbb73…2023-02-17 16:14:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-27 19:17:28 billymg: so that takes care of my peer issue with crawlerbot at least, /at now shows us directly connected. unfortunately that doesn't help me in debugging the peer issue with shinohai, signpost, and mod6
b3492aa87333451c…facd6096…2023-02-17 16:20:47 <billymg> though out of that list something finally shook loose with shinohai and i started receiving packets from him
240a936ab3492aa8…b3492aa8…2023-02-17 16:21:43 <billymg> just out of the blue started working, sometime around the end of last year
6cad493f240a936a…a7dfb75a…2023-02-17 16:35:36 <asciilifeform> billymg: iirc he finally switched to a non-nat'd box at some pt (not long before going off to sea or wherever he is nao)
c2e3faa42fb466f0…6cad493f…2023-02-17 16:44:35 <asciilifeform> phf ( or any other folx who operate crapple irons ) -- know whether crapple sells a box that can drive 3 'displayport' outputs ?
9a1fad205f7a6260…5f7a6260…2023-02-17 16:47:26 asciilifeform dug through their www and not arrived at a clear verdict
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 84d5009a301dfd249ba34f3604704ea91f5090754b5b20d7e3c966ae35374e5d) prior to <PeterL> ---
558bc9be84d5009a…a07241dd…2022-03-10 21:00:44 <PeterL> shinohai: is it an ass or a ball sack? need more size context
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain bc8f9cde2a9a94c6c768672298b6185828c247a8296fc8b79a3d3160af520a93) prior to <PeterL> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a575de3086c51b2468c5af4d8cd72e305c5962da13a1e9fbe7de5263d5202a10) prior to <PeterL> ---
f2561285a575de30…5f319145…2022-03-10 21:03:06 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-10#1004332 << I think this would do what you want?
106f7de3f2561285…c85a1ddb…2022-03-10 21:08:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-10 01:20:20 jonsykkel[asciilifeform|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-09#1004274 << :pest.net NOTICE name_of_guy :message
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 0ac42c78bde2e698bda9959c9b4db5fd716aab839f6a1c0d595a056e9dd2c9a3) prior to <PeterL> ---
98b20aa70ac42c78…64fc1857…2022-03-11 15:01:19 <PeterL> awt: my client seems to think there is nobody here, isn't it supposed to mark people as here when it sees the rubbish packets from people?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 9d6ae809c16c8857cb3cf9b9ee9c42889ae41c612e3c33ff7cdfc1709b161fb9) prior to <PeterL> ---
95f1ce419d6ae809…98b20aa7…2022-03-11 15:13:42 <PeterL> I did restart a few minutes ago, and it came up with messages saying each of my peers had joined the channel, and then it gave me messages saying each of them are set as away (no recent messages)
00f5381c95f1ce41…9d6ae809…2022-03-11 15:27:05 <awt> PeterL: ok so as written pest marks handles as away if there haven't been any messages from them within a configurable amount of time.
688a9ff500f5381c…95f1ce41…2022-03-11 15:25:39 <PeterL> is that only message-messages, or does it include ignore messages?
12fe6614c106d01d…c106d01d…2022-03-11 16:23:48 <awt> Not sure what's gonna happen in other IRC clients though
54a705642e63294b…13dbabd7…2022-03-11 19:29:06 <awt> http://thimbron.com/2022/03/9980-9978-presence-bug-fixes/
9334433ee63eefab…7d2162c7…2022-03-11 19:30:04 <awt> hopefully you shouldn't notice any difference until you need to sync via GETDATA
0f7be51f9334433e…e63eefab…2022-03-11 19:29:20 <asciilifeform> awt: seems to fix the 5min delay thing
c7765dc20f7be51f…9334433e…2022-03-11 19:31:01 <awt> meh that's still there only now the default is 2:00 minutes. still only happens if your chain is broken.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain b4028a4b2ddcd6fa8625342cd570791be7c43b64291f2bb7c7d487e32a84ab42) prior to <shinohai> ---
56be13e6e901092e…aa8523d1…2022-03-11 20:29:30 <signpost> probably about time I pulled deedbot in too
c0a869d55593d310…e901092e…2022-03-11 20:31:48 <shinohai> Well it's an ugly bash script hacked onto weechat but first thing I've got working.
51bd2a7ec0a869d5…c0a869d5…2022-03-11 20:33:02 shinohai now gotta press awt's updates and copy to 2nd station ....
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 458188e2c989088336af867de4673534b6a8d8bf72c1c0d8b54bff85ccd07c6a) prior to <signpost> ---
3cea0915510dd5d5…510dd5d5…2022-03-11 20:39:47 signpost typically does the generic names too until obvious groupings emerge in refactoring.
903f22ea996ce3e6…bf8a668d…2022-03-11 20:47:06 <asciilifeform> signpost: seems like our peering is still broken somehow
1fde3911406ec1a2…406ec1a2…2022-03-11 20:47:50 asciilifeform can't even tabcomplete to shinohai, he doesn't appear in list..
90f3c7561fde3911…51bd2a7e…2022-03-11 20:48:15 <shinohai> Yeah I'm still seeing you as hearsay asciilifeform ... imma press to latest shortly and try (yet again!)
ef932b7d90f3c756…90f3c756…2022-03-11 20:48:52 <shinohai> Now you appear in my peers list, so can tabcomplete, but otherwise borked.
b82f25e9da4f48c0…da4f48c0…2022-03-11 20:56:29 <shinohai> This is a weechat bot hacked together with bash
5ebac6dbb82f25e9…b82f25e9…2022-03-11 20:57:34 <shinohai> This is a weechat bot hacked together with bash
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain dadc519f70a1ce2897c7efef44870f1b3967efe28cbc4b511a928796494609c2) prior to <shinohai> ---
8ace72dfbe7e74f9…1be02101…2022-03-11 22:42:31 <awt> asciilifeform: likely the reason you can't see shinohai in the nick list is because blatta considers him offline due not finding any recent IGNORE messages from him.
196c30e28ace72df…8ace72df…2022-03-11 22:44:01 <awt> PeterL: probably yes. Left over from the orig IRC server code which was, yes, entirely contained in a single file.
dda654d759b387fe…996ce3e6…2022-03-11 22:42:15 <PeterL> I was going to check to see if the function actually gets called anywhere, but then I got distracted with other stuff
f5418dd7dda654d7…59b387fe…2022-03-11 22:46:55 <awt> PeterL: haven't checked but possibly used to create an irc server log directory
1b9ac4cae2ad5ce7…e2ad5ce7…2022-03-11 22:48:55 <PeterL> seeing if I can get scoopbot running here ...
9e6c17881b9ac4ca…1b9ac4ca…2022-03-11 22:52:00 <PeterL> awt/asciilifeform: when a getdata returns with an old message, is it supposed to be broadcast to everybody?
aa7332c4e01ea20b…e01ea20b…2022-03-11 23:10:31 <PeterL> hmm, it looks like it sees me but is not responding ...
14502ae0aa7332c4…f5418dd7…2022-03-11 23:57:01 <awt> PeterL: my understanding is that getdata responses should not be rebroadcast
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 6fc47241b7416a1c281dcba95322654f793b63c605545bc4d8a3dbbac5a90966) prior to <busybot> ---
b852982984cf39a7…84cf39a7…2022-03-12 16:31:27 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 6 minutes and 43 seconds
ea247325b8529829…b8529829…2022-03-12 16:31:27 <busybot> The next difficulty adjustment for BTC will occur in appx.
4fb49c9becbcec45…b7b00b50…2022-03-12 17:02:12 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 38 minutes and 45 seconds
b73ebf3decbcec45…8becd09d…2022-06-19 16:29:13 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 17 minutes and 46 seconds
2dc15266f57cabb2…ecbcec45…2022-03-12 18:00:02 <shinohai> awt: was the nicklist thing removed in latest version?
cb53d07dc5475592…c5475592…2022-03-12 18:04:30 <awt> shinohai: PeterL also had an issue where no nicks were showing up, solved by restart. Still not sure what causes it. Running on a lappy that loses connectivity maybe?
fcbc7cc54e0a9e33…898bef11…2022-03-12 18:04:16 <shinohai> I restarted ..... I show "join" messages now but nicks don't appear in list
c708b827388b834a…857b0550…2022-06-19 16:40:28 <asciilifeform> there's no limit on how old msgs get replayed to console, is there, lol
e893eb99c708b827…c708b827…2022-06-19 16:42:16 asciilifeform suspects the logotron-plugged-into-irc-frontend-of-pestron scheme is entirely unworkable, only seemed usable w/ billymg's because his was up moar or less continuously since kickoff
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 8e0cf1d9d15ce802cb2474f5a02ce15e9fccf63c2241732eee7d8fbbd1ca5b87) prior to <shinohai> ---
bd2299558e0cf1d9…71c7d008…2022-03-12 16:43:49 <shinohai> I liek the Pest station messages as notices now awt, A++
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 6453dacb4ea017185d3a0e8f5b2289ecc7eec5171581171566e952a4f60e2d86) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a5da0f338598a9ce0ef36b5da26770fcf4346b2c31e14853b6a7276d29273a85) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 3edb753526564a38ddb6f7143cc882359ddef237555b1ac380ab439f14475017) prior to <shinohai> ---
5536cdf480bf8d57…3edb7535…2022-03-12 23:26:13 <billymg> as asciilifeform always likes to say, "can buy megatonne of bananas"
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 700d0079261c854ab7c7523ea884c17701fac1d0fb763834a385fe1820ddd257) prior to <shinohai> ---
c3c897a8d503fd7e…d503fd7e…2022-03-13 19:16:03 <jonsykkel> the idea was l2 nicks in user list. would make tab complit work for these also
1949deb2c3c897a8…c3c897a8…2022-03-18 16:26:38 <jonsykkel> tehres one in norway so trb will survive when u guyz get nuked
6bd5d361268260b4…268260b4…2022-03-18 16:31:39 <jonsykkel> i guess crawler still has old ip, since not static
1d1c69496bd5d361…6bd5d361…2022-03-18 16:34:20 <jonsykkel> indeed, 85.164.243.42 is new ip since 5days ago
79865e046bd5d361…7b361470…2022-03-18 16:34:20 <billymg> jonsykkel: the norway node used to be there, went missing recently
94c5ded479865e04…57b682e1…2022-03-18 16:34:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-15 17:17:50 crawlerbot[billymg]: [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.167.102.77-8333 ][85.167.102.77] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=508201, v=99999, Norway - peers: None - last probed: 34m ago
6d9f093e887c7b6e…903b8a66…2022-03-18 16:37:12 <billymg> 5 days oughta be enough. it also hasn't discovered whaack's new node yet. i should look into this
492a8bbf887c7b6e…887c7b6e…2022-03-18 19:45:50 <jonsykkel> solution for comms with old/incompetent ppl, insert cd to launch chat
310188046d9f093e…6d9f093e…2022-03-18 16:37:31 <billymg> it discovers new nodes all the time, not sure why it isn't picking up these
14627946492a8bbf…492a8bbf…2022-03-18 19:46:47 <jonsykkel> maybe this is puzle piece required to nuke pnoje from life forever
7703cc4f480a62d3…01fa3133…2022-03-18 20:28:37 <asciilifeform> awt: would work, wainot, so long as the included wot has 1 or moar peers w/ static ip etc
36d4b16d480a62d3…480a62d3…2022-06-02 14:16:53 <jonsykkel> lol, cant say i have. that said, only time i ever visited a swede, the swede in question did not feed me
823fc1c9cf02e4fb…cf02e4fb…2022-03-18 16:49:35 <awt> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-16#1543013 << lol
7b13c0d47703cc4f…ffaa8148…2023-02-16 11:28:25 <cgra> when looking, found out that there were ~800 unresolved chain hashes in my db. after some manual getdata flood at my peers i ended up with ~10k (doubling the total) more messages and unresolved chain hashes are now down to 12. these 12 won't budge
1f69ecf536d4b16d…36d4b16d…2022-06-06 19:49:43 <jonsykkel> cant remember how my code works but iirc it retrys getdata evry 10sec on broken chains
a9776510823fc1c9…823fc1c9…2022-03-18 16:56:25 <awt> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-16#1543046 << wonder how he would know anything about lisp performance?
95739bec1f69ecf5…add46315…2022-06-06 19:51:29 <shinohai> I switched back to blatta on main station yesterday asciilifeform (just fyi)
5f5a243aa9776510…a3d2e297…2022-03-18 16:57:19 asciilifeform briefly tried lispworks, was not terribly impressed
ce1591e4a9776510…eb9e37a3…2023-02-16 11:30:39 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-09-16 phf: in case anyone thinks that commercial lisp vendors are any good, i'm getting completely random failed to allocate errors on lispworks
6fd229789b17f58c…9b17f58c…2022-06-06 19:52:10 <jonsykkel> wokring on a markdown replacment soon redy but i dont have a name for it so canot release - plz someone invent
71710a41ce1591e4…ce1591e4…2023-02-16 11:30:39 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-09-16 mircea_popescu: not to necessarily discourage the eager from using lisp or anything else. by all means. but certainly to discourage an unrealistic view of performance etc.
22c454096fd22978…3eb330d4…2022-06-06 20:02:38 <billymg> asciilifeform: btw i've got something going with postgres full text search locally, still needs tuning before i can make it live
cea7e59c71710a41…7b13c0d4…2023-02-16 11:31:50 <cgra> unresolved hashes here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ar_t
7c2b2541a1b801ca…b49654cb…2022-03-18 17:10:56 <awt> With lisp, might start from the other end and model fork detection
4851f654faad13a2…9f1fa918…2023-02-16 16:46:03 <asciilifeform> hmm mysterious dulapbot echoes (at 1st, thought they were stuck in somebody's buffer? but loox to be immed.)
50cd85279ef53cfb…6bd369a6…2022-06-06 20:04:57 <billymg> figuring out the results highlighting is what i'm currently working on
1639976c2e8a6316…8547bce2…2022-06-17 02:40:31 <awt> asciilifeform: in most cases you won't see later messages until you've got the oldies
9e78441fa3276404…a3276404…2022-06-26 00:25:39 <jonsykkel> item1: "the Long Buffer is searched for the message's antecedents; if these cannot be located, a GetData request is issued" << still dont understand, if do this will send request for and display messges that have already been displayed in the case where: self or netchain dont match last seen && message with that self/net h
cbeaccd901fa3133…7c2b2541…2022-03-18 19:36:08 <awt> Dunno how heretical this is but "would be cool" to encrypt a preconfigured pestron w/UI and air drop to whomever.
50f15b674851f654…4851f654…2023-02-16 16:46:49 <asciilifeform> cgra: if you have spare cycles, could plz post the messages that referenced the 12 mystery hashes ?
8455f2c850cd8527…9ef53cfb…2022-06-06 20:03:07 <asciilifeform> billymg: what's missing from this pov in the orig. highlighter ?
35487f471639976c…2e8a6316…2022-06-17 02:31:38 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform expected so, but in screenshit can see that apparently not
7435fb9050f15b67…50f15b67…2023-02-16 16:48:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023379 << not necessarily bug per se; 0xfb sync logic, as specced, doesn't adequately treat the fact that the chain aint linear
f6f2f5bc8455f2c8…50cd8527…2022-06-06 20:05:58 <billymg> the original highlighter gives false positive highlights, since it mirrors the behavior of the old search mechanism
4c4b234735487f47…35487f47…2022-06-17 02:32:30 <asciilifeform> likely asciilifeform even created a bit of fork, too, by speaking into a pestron which was waiting for 'head' of current msgs
003149c15ebbe35e…5ebbe35e…2022-06-26 00:25:44 <jonsykkel> could very easily happen with netchains at least
9a5347807435fb90…aaf589ab…2023-02-16 16:50:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 10:22:00 awt: cgra: sounds like a bug in blatta sync
d1f7bb4e4c4b2347…4c4b2347…2022-06-17 02:32:37 <asciilifeform> ( tho afaik forkage not handled presently )
3bf08da2003149c1…003149c1…2022-06-26 00:25:47 <jonsykkel> gotta always check verylong buffer (disk db) before sending getdata to be sure u arent requesting/displaiyng/storing same message twice, no?
df4b64759a534780…7435fb90…2023-02-16 16:49:38 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, 0xfa arguably doesn't either; asciilifeform still not knows the Right Thing there, i.e. how to properly suck in reply chains after the fact (vs. in real time) )
bb5bf9bb82c99453…82c99453…2022-06-06 20:04:29 <asciilifeform> iirc if you were to pass the string b/w the " to it, oughta highlight correctly
ff255b3cd1f7bb4e…1639976c…2022-06-17 02:42:02 <awt> asciilifeform: which is the message not from you that got intermixed in the replay?
2bc743183bf08da2…3bf08da2…2022-06-26 00:25:50 <jonsykkel> item2: if you follow 4.3.1 recipe as far as i can tell thers nothing to prevent duplicate packets (replayed identical packets, not same message from diff peers) in order buffer
24a77fb7df4b6475…df4b6475…2023-02-16 16:50:07 <asciilifeform> this is 1 of the key reasons wai 'pre-draft' aint 'draft' just yet
e66269dcbb5bf9bb…f6f2f5bc…2022-06-06 20:09:37 <billymg> i'll give an example, if i search for "ai machine" (no quotes) it will match 'ai' surrounded by word boundaries and words containing 'machin' (determined to be the stem)
3d3376ce2bc74318…2bc74318…2022-06-26 00:25:53 <jonsykkel> item3: info listed in 4.1.3 is not sufficient to determine Rbm in 4.3.3.2.2
b93e521de66269dc…e66269dc…2022-06-06 20:09:41 <billymg> one of the results is: http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2019-05-20#1914738
da2871923d3376ce…3d3376ce…2022-06-26 00:25:55 <jonsykkel> item4: no mention of relaying for imediate messages in 4.3.3.1
d9542ebf5d5a5e25…24a77fb7…2023-02-16 17:03:34 <asciilifeform> signpost: bot's been awol for month+ iirc
79d0bed7b93e521d…54cdb857…2022-06-06 20:09:42 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-05-20 asciilifeform: i suspect that mp_en_viaje is right, and even the 'ai beautifier' thing is redundant, all the machine needs to do is to work like the mirror in brothers grimm, whisper 'you are the fairest of them all' to the sow, will suffice.
d0a70a5279d0bed7…b93e521d…2022-06-06 20:10:10 <billymg> the current highlighter also highlights the 'ai' in 'fairest', even though that was not matched by the search
8b2ee1f7321a23f1…321a23f1…2022-06-17 02:35:19 asciilifeform wonders what will happen when these are getdata'd by the folx currently offline
df34abacd0a70a52…bb5bf9bb…2022-06-06 20:08:20 asciilifeform not looked at reader.py for rather long time
f26423ea8b2ee1f7…8b2ee1f7…2022-06-17 02:35:42 <asciilifeform> will they end up 'in the past' on acct of netchain ? or in 'correct' order by selfchain
aaa8fe6630a51485…30a51485…2022-06-26 15:53:02 <jonsykkel> thats what i calculated to be optimal buying point also
d01ecb0d30a51485…d8c78b9a…2022-06-26 15:54:28 <billymg> i tried typing it quickly again and my index finger again defaulted to the more symmetrical word ending
e0d9805d0d03623f…cea7e59c…2023-02-16 17:29:47 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023379 << could be my own tweaks too, in theory... or maybe blatta's try-once getdata approach is just weak against transmission hiccups and/or can't handle intense initial sync
99f58edfdf34abac…d0a70a52…2022-06-06 20:14:02 <billymg> in the highlighter the modification is easy, i can surround the token in '\b' (python regex word boundary), but the tricky part is getting the list of matches that postgres comes up with from a given stem
99090a31f26423ea…f26423ea…2022-06-17 02:36:40 <asciilifeform> ( is there anyone to whom this q not makes sense? )
fa6c9fdeaaa8fe66…a4e55117…2022-06-26 20:57:58 <shinohai> I should charge half a bitcent for everyone that types `ticket` for that command from now on
cb8edd35aaa8fe66…aaa8fe66…2022-06-30 23:50:49 <jonsykkel> awt: tested on some toy nets sure, not extensivly tested in wild
c1586526d01ecb0d…d01ecb0d…2022-06-26 15:55:34 <billymg> anyway i just wanted the price to be $21,420.69
2585c842b232b717…b232b717…2023-02-16 17:11:15 <asciilifeform> re: sync, afaik selfchains (if properly maintained by clients, that is) oughta result in 100% coverage of old msgs when getdata'ing. but possibly there were cases (e.g. zapped db) where they weren't maintained.
411c7b35e0d9805d…9a534780…2023-02-16 17:31:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 10:22:00 awt: cgra: sounds like a bug in blatta sync
4da8e88299f58edf…99f58edf…2022-06-06 20:14:21 <billymg> e.g. if you search for "banished" it will match the stem "banish", so all words with that stem match
25fcaf9499090a31…ff255b3c…2022-06-17 02:48:22 <awt> asciilifeform: will have to reload netchain/selfchain logic into my head before I can contemplate
79196c41cb8edd35…cb8edd35…2022-07-07 11:02:51 <jonsykkel> started getting this http://zzz.st/up/HiZKXBsn at 5:43 UTC
560897b8411c7b35…e0d9805d…2023-02-16 17:32:15 <cgra> ah, when manually getdata'ing, i placed ~10 hashes at a time, simultaneously to every peer, wen't through all 800 like that. some gave just one message, others gave various lengths of segments. when done, not all getdatas had succeeded, had to take a second round on some 100 hashes. so perhaps a clue
0c1fd9c83d2650e0…648f5034…2022-06-26 21:25:21 <awt> Ok so my previous theory as to why I was seeing repeat GETDATA requests was wrong. It turns out that the reason may be that not all GETDATA responses are making it into the long buffer. In any case I've found that by increasing getdata_requests_expiration_seconds to 10000 allows me to sync much more of the log without ge
d130a00979196c41…79196c41…2022-07-07 11:03:17 <jonsykkel> shortly afterwards a bunch of 07:51 !pest error: hearsay message with 0 bounces discarded from peer 'signpost'
b15a75b4560897b8…560897b8…2023-02-16 17:33:45 <cgra> hmm, actually, no idea in which part the next 100 hashes were of the old set, and in which part new breaks
124bc6f57912aabf…7912aabf…2022-06-06 20:13:45 asciilifeform unrelatedly, looking fwd to 1y anniversary of 'p2p day'
eaee3729f4881b1e…f4881b1e…2022-06-17 02:39:36 <asciilifeform> but imho interesting q, and prolly needs elaboration in spec too
b3862769d130a009…de670604…2022-07-07 14:31:16 <signpost> jonsykkel: I don't see having sent those same packets in my log.
7a735899b15a75b4…b15a75b4…2023-02-16 17:36:27 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023381 << can do, possibly in a few hours. got the hacks in place for that
36ca1987124bc6f5…4da8e882…2022-06-06 20:16:01 <billymg> i've found the function for going in the other direction, ts_lexize, but not yet found the one that produces the set of variations from a given stem
a6fc191ceaee3729…eaee3729…2022-06-17 02:40:07 <asciilifeform> ( what happens to msgs spoken into a pestron which is 'behind' or fulla chain gaps )
cb155c585e2a4a79…9b5006d4…2022-06-26 15:09:52 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: thx, will address all of your points. lemme know if find moar
4b33a03c4b1fdfa3…4b1fdfa3…2022-07-07 14:33:38 <jonsykkel> alternating between cuming from what was previously deedbot and signpost ips
053b5cd07a735899…411c7b35…2023-02-16 17:37:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 11:48:27 asciilifeform[crawlerbot]: cgra: if you have spare cycles, could plz post the messages that referenced the 12 mystery hashes ?
64f7bcb936ca1987…124bc6f5…2022-06-06 20:14:18 <asciilifeform> billymg: imho ideally oughta have no mutation of search string if in doublequotes
06379dda053b5cd0…2980359a…2023-02-16 18:20:30 <unpx> I think learning russian could be a useful, asciilifeform. Bent functinos: results and applications. Found reading author's book.
5262949b9d9382b9…1752e6cd…2022-07-01 14:57:35 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-30#1008165 << the greeks had similar thoughts about writing
81de7a5b06379dda…2585c842…2023-02-16 18:47:39 <asciilifeform> unpx: if you dont know ru, here's (by diff author, on subj) in engl.
8bc87ff09c42b519…9c42b519…2022-06-17 02:42:10 <asciilifeform> ( imho 'ideal' pestron would in fact display msg by netchain, reordering as req'd (by default; could toggle and order by timestamp, say )
44297ef15262949b…f2d35d58…2022-07-01 15:00:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-30 16:45:08 shinohai[asciilifeform|signpost]: Has anyone here ever read any of Varg Vikernes stuff? https://www.burzum.org/eng/library/about_civilization.shtml
0c1d85a5d345b6f1…d345b6f1…2022-07-07 14:35:43 <signpost> I moved my station off the deedbot server, hm.
72ebb76f81de7a5b…71710a41…2023-02-16 18:47:39 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-26 13:01:38 asciilifeform: unpx: apropos, see also possib. useful 31337w4r3z.
a4ef00f28bc87ff0…8bc87ff0…2022-06-17 02:42:21 <asciilifeform> naturally impossible w/ irc frontend tho
dbb2355944297ef1…13186b8a…2022-07-01 14:59:27 <shinohai> I don't necessarily agree with some of his "national socialist" stuff, but guy actually writes some interesting stuff for someone with his history.
9dc4932e72ebb76f…81de7a5b…2023-02-16 18:48:54 <asciilifeform> but yes, over9000 useful if yer into maffs (or almost anyffin -- ru b00k warez world is in much healthier condition than eng.)
2bbb3b0ea4ef00f2…a4ef00f2…2022-06-17 02:43:27 <asciilifeform> and , apropos, when reconnect, oughta 'prod' peers, and quickly see if yer on 'same page' with'em
f1f39e91dbb23559…dbb23559…2022-07-01 15:08:00 <shinohai> No idea why for last ~24 hours been disconnecting from station with "ping timeout" .... has to be something with remote server.
c1600427c93fb557…6ee146a7…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 269 - last probed: 30m ago
23c42e4af4fd075f…53818294…2022-07-10 04:09:02 <signpost> message.py#298 does appear to return a string
36c161fa9dc4932e…9dc4932e…2023-02-16 18:50:39 <asciilifeform> iirc at one time us maffs students were req'd to learn (2 of?) ru, fr, or de
7419d498f40d7b03…b959d3b0…2022-06-06 20:17:27 <billymg> it requires some wrangling, but having the tokenized stem index speeds it up a ton
00ada16b2bbb3b0e…25fcaf94…2022-06-17 02:53:26 <awt> I had been working on this update over several days. Fortunate timing that it came out of the oven tonight. Or perhaps almost fortunate.
b556efe3c1600427…c1600427…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 144 - last probed: 31m ago
5b2c96fb36c161fa…7a735899…2023-02-16 19:11:17 <cgra> asciilifeform, any idea how much japanese literature translated/ripped to ru? (atm thinking of old judo literature)
3a29ce3f7419d498…7419d498…2022-06-06 20:18:31 <billymg> ftr my example here had quotes to show the boundaries of the query, not that the term was quoted in the query
8a24720d00ada16b…2bbb3b0e…2022-06-17 02:44:18 <asciilifeform> ( iirc atm you have to actually speak , to learn that yer 'behind' )
723536edb556efe3…b556efe3…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, Romania - peers: 78 - last probed: 31m ago
7172873a57044489…57044489…2022-07-10 14:53:36 <jonsykkel> and other ppl if wana pear phf: http://zzz.st/up/AbqNCrIi/phf.asc mod6: http://zzz.st/up/qc33RDEr/mod6.asc crtdaydreams: http://zzz.st/up/WTCiueHf/crtdaydreams.asc
5e49a58d5b2c96fb…36c161fa…2023-02-16 19:16:50 <asciilifeform> cgra: asciilifeform not dug into subj; phf might know tho
450dd62c3a29ce3f…79d0bed7…2022-06-06 20:18:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 20:14:21 billymg: e.g. if you search for "banished" it will match the stem "banish", so all words with that stem match
d97b18d3723536ed…723536ed…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, Norway - peers: 77 - last probed: 32m ago
4615141bda7c6276…57e73236…2022-07-08 15:35:56 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=744158, v=99999, United States - peers: 267 - last probed: 4m ago
cbb8fbde7172873a…78dc664b…2022-07-10 14:55:28 <shinohai> +1 jonsykkel prefixing with cmd syntax so I could lazily pipe it into weechat fifo. xD
e8700820450dd62c…3a29ce3f…2022-06-06 20:21:18 <billymg> if you feed it ""real me"" (this time quoted), it finds the actually relevant lines, and very quickly. it's two stage, first does a full text search for 'real' and 'me' then a regex for '\yreal me\y' (surrounded by word boundaries) of those results
c6caff981a86f0ca…2320ca20…2022-07-03 16:16:23 <shinohai> Re: verisimilutde I've had him on /ignore since negrate, but do see his drivel when I'm catching up on logs. Hopefully last night served as wake up call for the guy.
8f92c48dda8705ab…cce799bc…2022-07-03 13:11:49 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 13 days 18 hours 28 minutes and 20 seconds
091e0241d97b18d3…d97b18d3…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 68 - last probed: 33m ago
a86bb2634615141b…4615141b…2022-07-08 15:35:56 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 134 - last probed: 5m ago
483bc738fa8b22f9…fa8b22f9…2022-07-10 23:12:34 <jonsykkel> awt: lol ye my prog by default getdatas evry 10sec on borken chains, peered crtdaydreams and chain broke imediately
20d4c0f9e8700820…f40d7b03…2022-06-06 20:19:30 <asciilifeform> iirc was what asciilifeform suggested last wk
11bee82a4431c71f…ac4837e4…2022-07-02 14:32:46 <billymg> asciilifeform: was there a net outage in your rack last night?
5743e1a58f92c48d…da8705ab…2022-07-03 13:56:22 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-02#1008196 << weird, bot seems to respond to me atm (and is running latest blatta) - My station been down for about a day but has yet to get any replay.
56c850e4091e0241…091e0241…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=743999, v=70001, United States - peers: 57 - last probed: 31m ago
3771df5ca86bb263…a86bb263…2022-07-08 15:35:56 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, Romania - peers: 108 - last probed: 5m ago
040b0c9980c0ffff…b3d053cb…2022-07-10 18:30:50 <awt> shinohai: if you can find that patch and paste it it would be helpful. I can't repro the unpeer bug in my dev environment.
87dd5a89483bc738…483bc738…2022-07-10 23:15:46 <jonsykkel> i guess cuz dosnt recognize chad messages as crtdaydreams and that why dosnt resolve break or smth
ad58aca920d4c0f9…20d4c0f9…2022-06-06 20:20:00 <asciilifeform> i.e. pg search (w/ indices etc) on quoted phrase, then filter in proggy for grep-like conformance
da24cc6034d5b79e…34d5b79e…2022-06-17 02:45:13 <asciilifeform> possibly the 'ignores' send out to keep nat ports alive oughta be 'prods'
95d8e46811bee82a…11bee82a…2022-07-02 14:33:19 <billymg> my logger was inaccessible (and couldn't ssh into the box), so i tried yours and it was also not responding
661fb2765743e1a5…44297ef1…2022-07-03 13:59:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-02 14:29:04 asciilifeform: awol?
7985dea556c850e4…56c850e4…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=743999, v=88888, France - peers: 51 - last probed: 31m ago
4484dfc33771df5c…3771df5c…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, Norway - peers: 79 - last probed: 7m ago
80b1cd33040b0c99…80c0ffff…2022-07-10 19:57:13 <shinohai> awt: will do but who knows this is only time it happened in recent memory. Station fired right back up once I removed his key from db.
9bbe34c0ad58aca9…e8700820…2022-06-06 20:22:35 <billymg> this all happens in postgres, and happens even faster than the ILIKE over the indexed 'payload' field
e10c615bf9405d23…f9405d23…2022-07-03 16:17:42 <awt> Something weird with bots connected to only one station
617473e37985dea5…7985dea5…2022-07-07 15:10:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, Canada - peers: 46 - last probed: 31m ago
e5cf7d8e4484dfc3…4484dfc3…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, Canada - peers: 65 - last probed: 5m ago
620f864901fe81b3…01fe81b3…2022-07-11 01:07:24 <jonsykkel> crtdaydreams: ye that would be bad idea. u can run multi instances by overriding data dir with -d opt
641260c49bbe34c0…ad58aca9…2022-06-06 20:20:30 <asciilifeform> given as pg's results are a superset of the desired results
4e55cd0f48e10e55…48e10e55…2022-07-02 14:31:48 <asciilifeform> billymg: lost connection from desk around 0400 localtime
36ef57d2e10c615b…e10c615b…2022-07-03 16:18:58 <awt> Yeah I find skipping over vast portions of logs for months now
b65228fb617473e3…617473e3…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=234609, v=99999, United States - peers: 24 - last probed: 31m ago
13cd7634e5cf7d8e…e5cf7d8e…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=744157, v=88888, France - peers: 54 - last probed: 5m ago
0eea189009f1af02…09f1af02…2022-06-17 02:47:24 <asciilifeform> if done this way, would be virtually impossible to end up speaking into a desynced pestron
0d4ccd534e55cd0f…4e55cd0f…2022-07-02 14:33:50 <asciilifeform> billymg: next time suspect an outage, plox to announce in #p
e049b39bb65228fb…b65228fb…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 20 - last probed: 31m ago
d72859af13cd7634…13cd7634…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=255579, v=99999, United States - peers: 44 - last probed: 6m ago
1a7172f30acf1f77…77b1e930…2022-07-11 03:24:44 asciilifeform was out pulling cable, back for short spell
7e5382f80d4ccd53…95d8e468…2022-07-02 14:36:48 <billymg> asciilifeform: couldn't access #p either, that's my station
d929cf38e049b39b…e049b39b…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=743777, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 19 - last probed: 31m ago
93dbebdad72859af…d72859af…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 37 - last probed: 7m ago
a17e32fa5ea188f3…ae979d46…2022-07-10 23:33:31 <awt> http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9975-fix-unpeer-nonce-annotation.vpatch http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9975-fix-unpeer-nonce-annotation.vpatch.sig
46251c171a7172f3…1a7172f3…2022-07-11 03:25:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-10#1009268 << the reasoning is that if you dun have complete chain whenever at all possible, you can't 1) serve it up to folx who need to fill own gaps 2) detect 'forks'
7b37a8ecf0df724c…f0df724c…2022-07-11 19:16:09 <jonsykkel> wat if ur kvm fails and sends codes to wrong box
f3eee080ef1297c6…64704a9a…2022-06-17 02:57:08 <awt> asciilifeform: true but would reduce the entropy of IGNORE command bodies.
8a0c7aa77e5382f8…0d4ccd53…2022-07-02 14:34:11 <asciilifeform> ( 1 of the obv wins of pestnet is that nao there's where )
c715940ad929cf38…d929cf38…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 19 - last probed: 31m ago
e1e4904d93dbebda…93dbebda…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=744157, v=70001, United States - peers: 36 - last probed: 5m ago
168ba79ba17e32fa…a17e32fa…2022-07-10 23:34:49 <awt> 9975 fixes %unpeer, duplicate handles while syncing, dupe GETDATA requests, and nonce generation.
c419032646251c17…46251c17…2022-07-11 03:26:05 <asciilifeform> grr blatta kaput again. erry single time dulapbot speaks..
7ba7325d7b37a8ec…e2e00e2a…2022-07-11 19:17:28 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: what if yer ceiling fails and drops yer roof on you, similarly
b0c33c071cbb3b2e…1cbb3b2e…2022-06-06 20:34:16 <signpost> now lagging in private after sending messages here.
4b3d6685f3eee080…ef1297c6…2022-06-17 02:48:33 <asciilifeform> imho would suffice to send prod at a $prodinterval in place of an 'ignore' there
5c12e9cb8a0c7aa7…8a0c7aa7…2022-07-02 14:34:29 <asciilifeform> imho errybody oughta have local station
1b44f4bc7244f76a…e9d92c60…2022-07-03 16:14:06 <awt> Nice to see phf taking on verisimilutde rather than skulking off to pestnet like I did. Many have put a lot of effort into that guy and it's not clear to me for what.
b7abaf18c715940a…c715940a…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 13 - last probed: 31m ago
fd3b10ffe1e4904d…e1e4904d…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 23 - last probed: 5m ago
a6ddb5e9c4190326…c4190326…2022-07-11 03:27:16 <asciilifeform> maybe misunderstood the q tho. is phf's notion that ~all~ msgs oughta be 'pulled' rather than pushed? why on earth wouldja do that ?
f138b0b21e56bcbc…5be171f9…2022-06-06 20:39:21 <billymg> the first two are both "all in pg" queries, with diff strategies. the third is the "wide net in pg, filter in python" method
d8126a245c12e9cb…7e5382f8…2022-07-02 14:37:16 billymg realized he should proabably have a local copy of the station db for such events
57e73236b7abaf18…b7abaf18…2022-07-07 15:10:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=743999, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 31m ago
9fff7ab0fd3b10ff…fd3b10ff…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=743777, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 19 - last probed: 5m ago
1ca2423da6ddb5e9…a6ddb5e9…2022-07-11 03:27:26 <asciilifeform> if i'm talking, i want delivery to all live peers asap.
5be171f9da020561…9bbe34c0…2022-06-06 20:37:30 <billymg> asciilifeform: with some numbers: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=W7Rv
2dd2044be69d010b…e69d010b…2022-06-17 02:49:46 <asciilifeform> let operator decide which he prefers, moar entropic chaff or smoother sync
c27f718bd8126a24…d8126a24…2022-07-02 14:42:40 <billymg> the only reason i can't run my station locally is that my ip changes ~monthly (not on any kind of schedule, just seems like roughly monthly)
06ac857e18bf3241…c31f1255…2022-07-07 15:23:56 <signpost> I'm going to go ahead and buy bitcoin at this price so that it drops to $10k.
8ca027f5c539593a…975e2936…2022-07-08 16:14:07 <billymg> hrm, http://therealbitcoin.org and http://thebitcoin.foundation down?
750063779fff7ab0…9fff7ab0…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 18 - last probed: 5m ago
ca3f5a2429e4081c…29e4081c…2022-06-06 20:42:26 <billymg> on the rk the results are more pronounced, ~193ms vs ~15s for the first two queries
c7c7a9ee2dd2044b…2dd2044b…2022-06-17 02:51:03 <asciilifeform> ( overall flavour of pestronics, in asciilifeform's pov -- that which can be made to individual taste of $operator -- oughta be, rather than to force agreement where none is req'd )
b613ac83c27f718b…c27f718b…2022-07-02 14:43:02 <billymg> although i guess per spec this isn't a problem
785125328ca027f5…8ca027f5…2022-07-08 16:14:42 <billymg> was about to propose updating those with pentacle build instructions
15239b8e75006377…75006377…2022-07-08 15:35:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 5m ago
57f926349c42ed0d…9c42ed0d…2022-07-22 01:42:55 <jonsykkel> not asking for a debate, if im a idiot i want to know why
a96e59c3ca3f5a24…0fef41ef…2022-06-06 20:55:03 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-06#1006391 << just need to use different ports
613b6a69c7c7a9ee…c7c7a9ee…2022-06-17 02:52:41 <asciilifeform> observe that per spec, (other than in 'rekey') nobody ever ~has~ to send an 'ignore'
5570f929b613ac83…b613ac83…2022-07-02 14:43:13 <billymg> as it'll update peers with new ip so long as they're reachable
ecb2959c15239b8e…15239b8e…2022-07-08 15:35:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=744157, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 5m ago
5eae6dd957f92634…57f92634…2022-07-22 02:20:18 <jonsykkel> noise generators can only into signal generators by vatering them
5b9303d8a96e59c3…450dd62c…2022-06-06 20:48:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 19:36:50 signpost[asciilifeform]: awt: does having multiple local instances of pest break any assumptions of blatta?
cc31ef7c5570f929…5570f929…2022-07-02 14:44:42 <billymg> does everyone here just run their stations from their desk/residential network?
2462b3b35eae6dd9…5eae6dd9…2022-07-24 11:56:09 <jonsykkel> well theres always ignore pakcets flying bak and forth every sec, so ur data will likely riperoni anyway
7ce65a02cc31ef7c…5c12e9cb…2022-07-02 15:35:48 <asciilifeform> billymg: fwiw asciilifeform's station is on a konsoomer residential fiber w/ dynamic ip
278be81b458cdeb7…ecb2959c…2022-07-08 15:41:00 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7393; TRB-Compatible: 26; TRB: 14
2899371144fe7043…44fe7043…2022-06-06 20:47:11 <signpost> messages appear to be trickling into deedbot's instance, but sporadically and slowly
8aba9cf17ce65a02…7ce65a02…2022-07-02 15:40:50 <asciilifeform> ( local telco wants +300$/mo simply for static ip, hilariously )
98d657592057df11…36ef57d2…2022-07-03 16:22:06 <awt> incidentally I've been watching The Shield. I highly recommend.
ce16a3a7278be81b…278be81b…2022-07-08 15:41:00 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 7; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Singapore: 2; United Kingdom: 2; Brazil: 1; Ukraine: 1; Australia: 1; Italy: 1; France: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
6a1482558aba9cf1…cc31ef7c…2022-07-02 15:49:39 <billymg> asciilifeform: i'll try to move it soon, currently configuring new box for the crawler so i can move it off ec2
4a6da36098d65759…98d65759…2022-07-03 16:25:59 <awt> Imagine Tony Soprano running an an LA police department
7c83e355ce16a3a7…ce16a3a7…2022-07-08 15:41:00 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 9; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; Norway: 1;
e09f64d84a6da360…2057df11…2022-07-03 16:28:07 <shinohai> The Shield is actually a pretty entertaining series.
e43bd43e7c83e355…458cdeb7…2022-07-08 16:00:28 <billymg> btw if anyone here (or any log readers) don't have a trb node running yet, it was stupid easy using pentacle
3bf4b7bbc7f290a2…1340021d…2022-07-02 18:06:36 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: just now; last restart: just now
dd204a63e09f64d8…e09f64d8…2022-07-03 16:30:09 <shinohai> (Same guy was in earlier police show called "The Commish" and it's kinda neat to see him go from portraying cucked family guy to aforementioned Sopranoesque division commander)
975e2936e43bd43e…e43bd43e…2022-07-08 16:03:05 <billymg> i literally just took the binary that pentacle spit out, threw it on the server, and ran it -- no extra tweaking necessary (other than a few -addnode flags passed at startup to seed it with peers)
bc136ae692d5fa21…3bf4b7bb…2022-07-02 18:06:53 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7603; TRB-Compatible: 30; TRB: 12
3ac942664088dd0d…dd204a63…2022-07-03 16:33:42 shinohai not much of a TV person but eagerly awaits final episodes of "Better Call Saul" later this month .....
b6e154afbc136ae6…bc136ae6…2022-07-02 18:06:53 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 9; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Singapore: 3; United Kingdom: 2; Russia: 2; Brazil: 1; Canada: 1; Italy: 1; France: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
e622c535d63ab84c…d63ab84c…2022-08-06 22:22:07 <jonsykkel> didnt even need to tell program to do that
bb3ee0c3b6e154af…b6e154af…2022-07-02 18:06:53 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 7; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; Norway: 1;
ff9c89adcdeefffd…3ac94266…2022-07-03 16:35:28 <shinohai> 'tis the prequel to "Breaking Bad" (if you watched that).
21a04f2aff9c89ad…08f653cd…2022-07-03 18:12:54 <billymg> shinohai: based fellow lox and better call saul enjoyer
5a9a324ccb2ea1d4…dc400604…2022-08-06 22:59:42 <awt> I think some sort of horizontal grouping by time increment would make phf's graph a bit more clear
cadac56ecb2ea1d4…cb2ea1d4…2022-08-10 23:08:09 <jonsykkel> awt: i didnt implement prod, they are banner packets
ea71ee8e21a04f2a…ff9c89ad…2022-07-03 18:12:12 <shinohai> ahaha billymg .... based indeed. Howard getting offed during midseason finale, didn't see *that* shit coming.
3e8951a55a9a324c…5a9a324c…2022-08-06 23:08:23 <awt> actually after staring at it for a while my thread seems to make sense. Just phf's long thread with no netchain is weird
df53d06cea71ee8e…ea71ee8e…2022-07-03 18:12:35 <shinohai> (Though surprises and attention to detail like that are precisely why I like the show)
191da67c3e8951a5…096d4539…2022-08-06 23:16:08 <phf> awt, also no time is intentional. i want to understand the packet graph's behavior outside of time domain
e0ebec1fdf53d06c…21a04f2a…2022-07-03 18:16:16 <billymg> shinohai: i didn't have the highest of expectations going into it but i think i like it equally if not a bit more than breaking bad
98b1ac46191da67c…191da67c…2022-08-06 23:17:25 <phf> e.g. good old topological sort should give you mostly correct packet order (of course when netchain/selfchain is valid)
ec8ca744e0ebec1f…df53d06c…2022-07-03 18:16:34 <shinohai> It's hard for me to decide just yet. I'll prolly binge watch the entire series over a weekend when it's done and I'm feeling particularly lazy before I make final call.
e8682a9898b1ac46…3e8951a5…2022-08-07 00:18:57 <awt> net chain should zigzag between your selfchain thread and mine. But the beginning of your thread doesn't do that. There should be a net chain edge from "* data" to "apparently", but there is none.
3368b71a76cbff63…7b4f36d8…2022-08-11 15:10:17 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-11#1011153 << https://uncrate.com/1m-hauly/
e0c5a8f776cbff63…76cbff63…2022-08-13 15:56:01 <jonsykkel> u have same funny with sha257 u can intepret it as a aray of 8bit numbers where indian dosnt mater or one bigas 256bit number wher it dose
17ab24e9e8682a98…e8682a98…2022-08-07 01:00:53 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011036 << ah I see you are already aware, just noticed rereading logs
c6ed165dfcd3d61d…3e5ca87d…2022-08-11 00:24:59 <signpost> PeterL: http://trinque.org/2022/08/10/ocpy/
b1e5df423368b71a…1c5a1cb0…2022-08-11 15:10:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-11 10:15:28 billymg: also, duffel bag usd or digital?
b4e22df2e0c5a8f7…6d1d57e7…2022-08-13 16:17:38 <phf> right, i forgot to mention that, because i also have a reader for bignums (really more like numbers where size is specified at runtime) and it exhibits similar inconsistency
57ea67a5e0c5a8f7…e0c5a8f7…2022-08-13 16:50:19 <jonsykkel> thers other advanages also to thinkig of them as numbers, for exampel u get this implicit ordering by just doing simpel < or >, can be usful in p2p protocols
cb6cacbb17ab24e9…69dd7bf9…2022-08-07 01:01:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 14:09:48 phf[awt]: apparently i've been ignoring netchain messages (or rather not producing right ones)
bcef77b8b4e22df2…b4e22df2…2022-08-13 16:19:56 <phf> apropos it's more convenient to treat hashes as bignums in lisp, and oldschool lisps (genera and allegro common lisp come to mind) do just that. modern lispers prefer to sling around arrays of octets
6d9d787257ea67a5…89aa8816…2022-08-13 18:48:25 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-13#1113126 << ty. i'll have to wait until it gets here to verify but armed with this information i was able to search the reviews and found one claiming to have done this check
5bb89b8357ea67a5…57ea67a5…2022-08-18 23:04:57 <jonsykkel> billymg: ur site 500's here (at this moment anyway. page23 works) http://bitdash.io/nodes/?status=any&returned_peers=&user_agent=any&page=24
e03a9ea6d4c825d6…d4c825d6…2022-10-15 23:55:58 <billymg> just bumped the versions for blatta and smalpest on pestnet.io too
6168ded8cdca3737…661fb276…2022-07-03 20:54:00 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 11m
bf0ca568cb6cacbb…17ab24e9…2022-08-07 01:43:17 <awt> Cool. Got a prototype of Prod working that actually sends out and handles GetData requests.
e0ff1689a9d805ee…aec183ae…2022-08-11 18:13:03 <whaack> my contact is Canadian, but he is likely brokering for someone else
42ae088e6d9d7872…e9b84d72…2022-08-13 18:45:19 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-13 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-12#1011162 << cut a small piece from end when buying, see that it's actually cu (rather than cu-plated al). and that the shields actually there.
425dc6715bb89b83…c4f84715…2022-08-18 23:27:23 <billymg> jonsykkel: yeah, i've been meaning to fix that. it's a unicode error, some node must have a unicode character in its user agent string somewhere
719d4113e03a9ea6…e03a9ea6…2022-10-15 23:58:09 billymg looking forward to the new illustrated spec as well, will be sure to incorporate it on the marketing page after it's ready
2ffbeb176168ded8…cdca3737…2022-07-03 20:56:55 <billymg> ^ also in ukraine now, along with logs.bitdash.io
6d5822debf0ca568…98b1ac46…2022-08-07 04:10:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011073 << yah, the whole graphviz was prompted by me realizing that i'm ignoring the whole netchain thing
9fc178c23648d986…3648d986…2022-08-11 00:26:26 <signpost> in other news, I restricted the front page of http://wot.deedbot.org/ to ratings given in the last 5yrs, and now it looks about how one'd expect
f4a775715d260110…8fc55175…2022-08-13 16:29:20 <shinohai> Wow when you say it like that phf makes me wanna moan "fuck me like the C programming language" during sex.
690ef4ec6d5822de…cb6cacbb…2022-08-07 04:10:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 21:01:13 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011036 << ah I see you are already aware, just noticed rereading logs
068b6e129fc178c2…9fc178c2…2022-08-11 00:34:01 <signpost> awt: looks like a nice cleanup on message parsing eh?
fe1ec9a295cc217c…6025ca69…2022-08-12 16:20:04 <awt> https://www.eetimes.com/reverse-engineering-insect-brains-to-make-robots/
c39dced044cb0836…44cb0836…2022-07-03 23:48:51 <awt> Peter Schiff exit scams: https://twitter.com/peterschiff/status/1543729010278113281
87ce00ed690ef4ec…3da73fde…2022-08-24 13:56:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011379 << moar or less ideal for warez, yes (p2p warez fwiw aint some kinda new breakthrough, but historically direly missing a wot footing)
d3982ad7b0b329e9…f4a77571…2022-08-13 16:34:51 <shinohai> I view that as a challenge I'm willing to accept.
b29e25255460c1d8…5460c1d8…2022-08-26 08:24:58 <jonsykkel> if u think about wot as an atempt to create explicit system mirroring meatspace relatnioships
7c663bb787ce00ed…b6965474…2022-08-24 13:57:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:07:35 signpost: it's why I like the warez idea; it tidily bundles together what one needs for decentralized publishing of w/e.
175b558c7ee9c855…2e66f9a6…2022-08-25 16:40:44 <awt> Not a paste. Just unconsciously attempted to unlock the screen
9fdc32d7b29e2525…b29e2525…2022-08-26 08:25:01 <jonsykkel> a pestnet would then be the mirror of a group of ppl within earshot of eachother (for larger nets will also depend on ur wotness to them)
12cb767cadca4ddb…adca4ddb…2022-07-03 23:52:23 <shinohai> I propose a new term for getting rekt: "Schiffed".
9d0bd97b14fd00bb…bf5d9848…2022-08-19 16:53:29 <awt> signpost: according to the logs seems like it's not possible to change the nick deedbot has associated with my key. Still true?
aad404d49fdc32d7…9fdc32d7…2022-08-26 08:25:04 <jonsykkel> a pest direct mesage exchange would then be the mirror of 2 ppl moving away from the group
938a85dcd4d6ff3c…d4d6ff3c…2022-08-24 14:29:03 <billymg> morning, asciilifeform, how goes the castle fortification?
ccf873e6381d7dbc…381d7dbc…2022-08-25 20:50:01 <signpost> I think I pasted an entire email from my dad one time.
8b473896aad404d4…aad404d4…2022-08-26 08:25:08 <jonsykkel> either to have privat comversation or to discuss somthing else than vat big group is tlaking about at the moment
408f2e47938a85dc…87ce00ed…2022-08-24 14:55:02 <asciilifeform> billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one
0267d3fd0f93464d…93238071…2022-08-11 00:41:09 <PeterL> signpost: on wot page, it looks like there are two names up above the top of my screen?
16a79fd0ccf873e6…42b3c90c…2022-08-25 21:00:27 <asciilifeform> signpost: hey at least not launch codes
996c2dc88b473896…8b473896…2022-08-26 08:25:11 <jonsykkel> somtimes it makes sense in meatspace that >2 ppl move away from group in this way
f7d44c06913099b0…913099b0…2022-07-04 00:06:55 <awt> Hopefully only the first of many banks to go under in the coming months.
27fb0842408f2e47…408f2e47…2022-08-24 14:57:37 asciilifeform took most of year to make it sorta habitable, and not because wreck but because ~0 time. and still, lol, renting the old 1 even nao
ea0e85000267d3fd…0267d3fd…2022-08-11 00:41:41 <PeterL> oh, wait, when I zoomed the page they came into view
d6d34a6d16a79fd0…ccf873e6…2022-08-25 21:32:28 <signpost> fell down a rabbit hole of old logs looking for it, did not find.
34e63b42996c2dc8…996c2dc8…2022-08-26 08:25:13 <jonsykkel> a irc channel has secret flag to distinguish between those 2 use cases
e449c5fcd6d34a6d…d6d34a6d…2022-08-25 21:33:04 <signpost> awt: any ideas on getting idle pest CPU usage down? seems to churn about 50% of one core on an APU2 consistently
d4a4342b34e63b42…34e63b42…2022-08-26 08:25:16 <jonsykkel> whether a perfect miror of a meatspace mechanism is the desired goal can be debated
6ec8d33ea90692ce…bb3ee0c3…2022-07-04 04:18:32 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=121765, v=99999, United States - peers: 764 - last probed: 34m ago
6025ca69915a8d6f…0f93464d…2022-08-11 00:50:15 <awt> note to asciilifeform: with 9973 you should be able to set any numerical knobs to float values without crashing your station now
1f8ddb46e449c5fc…175b558c…2022-08-25 21:49:56 <awt> signpost: interesting - how are you gathering that stat?
b1564cb1d4a4342b…d4a4342b…2022-08-26 08:25:19 <jonsykkel> or maybe it is desirabl, but theres a tradeoff with complexity, so theres some optimal balancing point
9e3789796ec8d33e…6ec8d33e…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 201 - last probed: 33m ago
5bd10cb115993c75…6e59059c…2022-08-24 15:13:13 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011458 << http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-01-13#1369390
0015904f1f8ddb46…1f8ddb46…2022-08-25 21:53:21 <awt> In all likelyhood the problem is the in server.py, in the loop that checks sockets for input. One could play with the timeout values provided to the select() call.
0a2d090ab1564cb1…b1564cb1…2022-08-26 08:38:17 <jonsykkel> but if u keep same port, same keys etc is it then multi nets
aac4fd539e378979…9e378979…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=743542, v=88888, France - peers: 118 - last probed: 34m ago
74e4329a5bd10cb1…65daf8be…2022-08-24 15:13:27 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-01-13 phf: copypaste: the fact that your "tens of thousands of dollars" deals have not been compromised is entirely due to "uncatchable joe" factor. is russian joke, "this there is uncatchable joe. -- woah, nobody can catch him? -- no, nobody cares to"
16ec61475bd10cb1…7c663bb7…2022-08-24 15:13:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 09:51:34 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?)
a21087730015904f…0015904f…2022-08-25 21:54:11 <awt> Checking top on my machine blatta is using about 3-5% "CPU" but not sure how that takes cores into account.
100dc5d90a2d090a…0a2d090a…2022-08-26 08:40:02 <jonsykkel> ryte, but purpose of that afaik is only to allow for rekeying without posibility of losing peertivity
d815db5aaac4fd53…aac4fd53…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, Norway - peers: 116 - last probed: 35m ago
6e2823f474e4329a…bc2b3556…2022-08-24 15:18:29 <phf> in totally unrelated i do wonder why propagation is so janky. i'm looking at the logs on bitdash and nosuchlabs, and the messages are in all kinds of jacked order. it took almost a minute for dulapbot response to get to me
293c5c1874e4329a…6e2823f4…2022-08-24 15:22:00 <phf> hmm, what an odd mess of packets http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-mess.png
bc2b355616ec6147…5bd10cb1…2022-08-24 15:16:06 <phf> you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"?
f8b69c5ea2108773…e449c5fc…2022-08-25 21:54:28 <signpost> yeah, or even use threading, given it's IO. the one place python can sorta multitask.
e4c988dd100dc5d9…100dc5d9…2022-08-26 08:40:33 <jonsykkel> (in case station crashes during rekey and changes commited to disk on one end but not the other)
7cf017e6d815db5a…d815db5a…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 90 - last probed: 36m ago
504fe4f9472a48be…e6d7e3fe…2022-08-11 13:19:55 <whaack> I have someone interested in during some mid 6 figure range fiat funbux into 20 bitcoins here in CR, if anyone wants in on it to make a splendid CR vacation (or buy a nice little plot of land, etc.) plz gpg me
0675bd967cf017e6…7cf017e6…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, Romania - peers: 85 - last probed: 34m ago
65aab0158f2bb430…293c5c18…2022-08-24 15:29:52 <phf> awt, i think you already know, but your deduper doesn't quite work right, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mx2h
701f9298f52c692a…a2108773…2022-08-25 21:55:27 <awt> Yes threading would be good. I tried it initially, but couldn't untangle db locking issues.
4eabc5ebfaa78287…faa78287…2022-08-26 08:43:31 <jonsykkel> canot spek for blata but smalpest indeed only single net single irc socket per proces
8890c4690675bd96…0675bd96…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=743542, v=70001, United States - peers: 74 - last probed: 34m ago
104998ae65aab015…2d2047b3…2022-08-24 16:02:08 <awt> phf likely nosuchlabs order is off due to sync, in which logs are dumped in chunks as they come in. The lines within the chunks are in order, but the chunks themselves are in somewhat reverse chronological order.
b5d6828aaec183ae…3a6a9668…2022-08-11 14:18:15 <billymg> whaack: does the guy happen to be south african? /me wonders if we know the same person
8870b4548890c469…8890c469…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, Canada - peers: 67 - last probed: 34m ago
77301e8f104998ae…15993c75…2022-08-24 16:04:46 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform's logger is at this pt ~inedible, will need to zap & reload from billymg's at some pt
e93551648870b454…8870b454…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 62 - last probed: 34m ago
209082e377301e8f…77301e8f…2022-08-24 16:05:06 <asciilifeform> ( and to find out wai dulapbot's peerings dun seem to make for a reasonably realtime intake )
0344ec7d6d89fdbd…6d89fdbd…2022-08-26 09:02:05 <jonsykkel> l2 being (set-difference peers-of-your-peers your-peers)
24ced42ce9355164…e9355164…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 59 - last probed: 34m ago
19718d46209082e3…209082e3…2022-08-24 16:06:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit'
86501b7624ced42c…24ced42c…2022-07-04 04:18:33 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 37 - last probed: 34m ago
8ab6ed2819718d46…16ec6147…2022-08-24 16:07:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 11:16:35 phf[awt]: you (or your fans) have been posting links to e.g. hackernews, to be immediately flagged and downvoted, because disagreeable positions, but that's not "deplatforming", that's "i didn't want to be on that platform to begin with"?
cc8f7a5940b9cc11…40b9cc11…2022-08-26 09:09:39 <jonsykkel> (or are you in ur own l2? philosophical nugget to chew on for u gyse)
0a81bb5e86501b76…86501b76…2022-07-04 04:18:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=743380, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 21 - last probed: 34m ago
96e60cdc8ab6ed28…19718d46…2022-08-24 16:07:57 asciilifeform dislikes meme 'deplatforming' because it assumes the lulnotion that 'nobody can post except on 'platforms''
ec0da516cc8f7a59…cc8f7a59…2022-08-26 11:12:52 <jonsykkel> PeterL: the elegance of ur definition is compelling, but i can find no historical president of anyone refering to themselves as their l0, which indicates its not in colloquial use at least
6ee146a70a81bb5e…0a81bb5e…2022-07-04 04:18:34 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=743542, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 34m ago
1b88475296e60cdc…104998ae…2022-08-24 16:13:07 <awt> asciilifeform: note re: sync on 9973 - the IRC client need not be attached for sync to occur.
f3a6b450ec0da516…ec0da516…2022-08-26 11:18:00 <jonsykkel> ur client could dm multi ppl, but not sure how u would tell the others to display these in same window and multidm the same ppl without clunky manual "operation of ak" or changes in spec
cbc0f87f6ee146a7…a90692ce…2022-07-04 04:25:55 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-04#1008268 << that one's my new one
b42de4b81b884752…96e60cdc…2022-08-24 16:13:33 <asciilifeform> awt: that wasn't the problem, it's always attached
222227d4f3a6b450…f3a6b450…2022-08-26 11:19:07 <jonsykkel> (not arguing for this 2 be clear, dont have any strong opinions on it. was just thinking out loud to begin with)
cd83f6d0cbc0f87f…6168ded8…2022-07-04 04:23:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-04 00:18:35 crawlerbot[billymg]: [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=121765, v=99999, United States - peers: 764 - last probed: 34m ago
bbc2adbbb42de4b8…b42de4b8…2022-08-24 16:14:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011376 << asciilifeform admits to indifference re subj. 'make sumthing that shoots from junkyard parts' was solved problem in ww2 era, and reqs no fancy cncisms, they're a distraction for 'ricers'.
b8da038d222227d4…222227d4…2022-08-26 11:34:25 <jonsykkel> dunno vat a good interface for such temporary sidechat could look like anyway
46a9d829cd83f6d0…cbc0f87f…2022-07-04 13:51:35 <billymg> i used pentacle for generating the binary and just threw that up on the server, seems to be syncing at a good pace
9d2ede18bbc2adbb…8ab6ed28…2022-08-24 16:15:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:05:04 signpost: wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc.
44d5b655b8da038d…b8da038d…2022-08-26 11:34:41 <jonsykkel> at least have a stronk distaste for shitcord style "250 permanent channels for discussing slightly diffrent stuffs" with associated autistic noises that appear if u "use channel wrong"
d373f36246a9d829…46a9d829…2022-07-04 13:53:08 <billymg> also revealed a bug in the crawler. i guess sometimes nodes return loopback addresses in their peer lists, and this time since the crawler and node are running on the same box those actually responded when probed
011665aa9d2ede18…bbc2adbb…2022-08-24 16:15:45 <asciilifeform> as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers
bded3ec444d5b655…ab59b6d0…2022-08-26 11:43:53 <PeterL> jonsykkel: think of the L# as the minimum number of hops to receive a message. If I generate a message, 0 hops are needed. A message from my L1 will have at least 1 hop, a message from my L2 will have at least 2 hops, etc.
9afc723f44d5b655…44d5b655…2022-08-26 11:55:43 <jonsykkel> crtdaydreams: i meant the noises coming from the inhabitants of this particular type of sewer. "pls take this discussion to #john_deere_tractor, this is #tractor general"
829d51e6d373f362…d373f362…2022-07-04 13:54:01 <billymg> immediately apparent when the bitdash homepage showed 24 trb nodes all of a sudden
ab73e232011665aa…1b884752…2022-08-24 16:22:12 <awt> asciilifeform: the idea was that if you don't want a bunch of out of order sync noise, you can disconnect the client for a while
6312d24a829d51e6…829d51e6…2022-07-04 14:01:30 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-03#1008260 << it's this one
87d0f134ab73e232…011665aa…2022-08-24 16:24:32 <asciilifeform> awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
417229bab48f0b32…b48f0b32…2022-08-26 12:13:08 <jonsykkel> have some old budys i spek to there too, and i can feel the jscancer taking years off my life evry time open tab
f39e2f546312d24a…cd83f6d0…2022-07-04 13:58:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-03 19:01:18 awt[signpost|billymg]: billymg: wainot Donetsk?
ec0388ba87d0f134…87d0f134…2022-08-24 16:25:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011269 << asciilifeform not blind to the fact that ~errything he does is either a chore or a 'displacement'. for all the good this realization does, lol
6a82feb7417229ba…417229ba…2022-08-26 12:14:14 <jonsykkel> technologically inept frens is a real problem
c398f859f39e2f54…f39e2f54…2022-07-04 13:58:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-09 asciilifeform: new tomb, in... ukristan, lol
4cc1e45fec0388ba…9d2ede18…2022-08-24 16:26:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 14:15:04 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113248 << i came to view this behavior as particularly kind of displacement activity. it's a combination of one of the later threads between diana and mp on malleability of computer artifacts and an old copypasta from “ivan chesnokov
bf04b96dc398f859…6312d24a…2022-07-04 14:02:39 billymg not sure if their offices are occupied by ruskies yet
b9d89b3cc398f859…f49b374b…2022-07-04 15:18:06 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform only hosted with ukrs once before; your mileage may vary
386684844cc1e45f…44188d7a…2022-08-24 16:26:21 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011489 << then did they truly learn to Bitcoin at all?
9d9a4494b9d89b3c…bf04b96d…2022-07-04 15:28:15 <billymg> asciilifeform: so far my only complaint is latency
9e2654b838668484…4cc1e45f…2022-08-24 16:26:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:16:41 asciilifeform[5]: as for 'teach lamers to bitcoin', to date afaik only resulted in proliferation of folx feeding the fractional-reserve gox scammers
db5cc56888644124…701f9298…2022-08-26 15:21:56 <awt> Initial versions of blatta indeed supported channels. Message body included IRC formatting.
0f3b9c9c9d9a4494…9d9a4494…2022-07-04 15:29:40 <billymg> pinging from here i get around 210ms (currently) -- the other day it was 250-300ms
f4af2085db5cc568…db5cc568…2022-08-26 16:18:12 <phf> i think maybe multinet is the only way to do multichannel with pest
e03e224d3f9d0a2c…3f9d0a2c…2022-08-28 18:56:28 <jonsykkel> or i guess u mean ur storing all of them and most of them contain same ip/port
a205d1610f3b9c9c…0f3b9c9c…2022-07-04 15:30:30 <billymg> pinging the rk in your rack around 85ms, but some spikes to ~130ms
2dbf4c9be7abf944…38668484…2022-08-24 16:27:31 shinohai fresh off the hate train for latest blogpost calling lightning a shitcoin .....
7fcd30ecf4af2085…16a79fd0…2022-08-26 16:19:12 <asciilifeform> phf: afaik yes. (and was asciilifeform's orig. notion re how 'channels' oughta work)
d9703ab2e03e224d…e03e224d…2022-08-28 18:57:57 <jonsykkel> could do "peer x addr changed to y" in logs
d89a539ea205d161…a205d161…2022-07-04 15:39:52 <billymg> asciilifeform: in any case, not my first choice, but also wanted to get something going before the one year anniversary of my dulap request
cfbc49be2dbf4c9b…ab73e232…2022-08-24 16:29:14 <awt> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole
d4b183bb7fcd30ec…7fcd30ec…2022-08-26 16:20:44 <asciilifeform> part of asciilifeform's rationale was 'it is lulzy to have dozen channels when you have 6 d00dz' but moar generally imho irc-style channels are an abstraction that glues very poorly ~on top of~ pestnet mechanics, with schisms/mergers/gags etc
16448997d9703ab2…6e32087e…2022-08-28 18:58:51 <awt> jonsykkel: rereading the spec - says it stores all fully processed unique messages
a2239305d9703ab2…d9703ab2…2022-08-28 18:59:36 <jonsykkel> ah long bufer = dedup bufer, ignore my mesages
f53c2603d89a539e…c398f859…2022-07-04 15:37:12 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-10-02 billymg: asciilifeform: rack service inquiry for whenever you have a chance to read
49a323e3cfbc49be…e7abf944…2022-08-24 16:28:48 <asciilifeform> shinohai: if you get kick outta engaging with these, by all means, beats vodka, afaik won't give cirrhosis
a1202ce6cfbc49be…74e4329a…2022-08-24 16:29:15 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
aab3f93cd4b183bb…f4af2085…2022-08-26 16:22:33 <phf> yeah, dm's don't have same failover mechanisms, which come from not support >l1 altogether. but once you start baking that for multichannel you run into custodianship issues, etc
a65ed05416448997…16448997…2022-08-28 18:59:22 <awt> So I guess yeah I should be storing address cast messages in the long buffer
1d96d438a2239305…a65ed054…2022-08-28 19:07:23 <awt> Currently long buffer gets written to the db. Maybe only save address cast messages that update the db? I can't think of a reason why you'd want to save them long term at all.
6c66f69ca2239305…a2239305…2022-08-28 19:09:01 <jonsykkel> a atacker could then change ur peers address in some cases by replaying adres cast that should of been deduped
63411d64f53c2603…d89a539e…2022-07-04 15:41:36 billymg doesn't mind there being no availability, but would've appreciated "hey look, it's not gonna happen" instead of "two more weeks!" whenever asking about status
21a38621aab3f93c…aab3f93c…2022-08-26 16:24:52 <phf> presumably you can add some kind protocol for establishing new pestnets from inside pestnet.
20f367556c66f69c…6c66f69c…2022-08-28 19:10:37 <jonsykkel> guess coudl be argued that they can do this anyway by holding back a packet and releasing it later
8366f55301b075ef…2dbf4c9b…2022-08-24 16:31:02 <shinohai> Well I'm not gonna pickle liver, but vodka + shitposting is sometimes a great time.
dfdeec6021a38621…f52c692a…2022-08-26 23:35:24 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011642 << doubt it; I was self-employed for a decade.
b23c539a20f36755…20f36755…2022-08-28 19:12:26 <jonsykkel> (and of cours, atacker has no idea wat the packets contain)
241235e78366f553…cfbc49be…2022-08-24 16:32:51 <awt> phf: I'm aware of the dupe issue you've mentioned before. I wonder if there's some sort of pattern there with it happening with a log quote.
b3d171dbdfdeec60…f78bea5d…2022-08-26 23:35:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 06:25:12 PeterL: signpost: I seem to remember one time you pasted a job offer letter into the chat?
23629f54b23c539a…b23c539a…2022-08-28 19:22:54 <jonsykkel> i imagine that Tc constant in spec is set to somthing on the order of 60sec
7ff8596fb3d171db…dfdeec60…2022-08-26 23:36:04 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011643 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009689
5301e12723629f54…23629f54…2022-08-28 19:23:51 <jonsykkel> so "Ta must be greater than or equal to Tc" -> max 60 casts per hour for each cold peer
7d52621987c69686…12cb767c…2022-07-04 17:26:32 <shinohai> Note to self: Move pest station to server that doesn't suck this week.
068daa4224276ccf…01b075ef…2022-08-24 16:33:46 <asciilifeform> for folx who grasp that none of the buttons within their reach are connected to anyffin interesting, the options typically are vodka; nagant; 'displacements'; commercial worx (getmoar dough, buy fancier coffin!). asciilifeform in recent yrs partial to the last item
90e0245f7ff8596f…b3d171db…2022-08-26 23:36:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 06:28:15 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: also, signpost, best use-case I can see of your pest dns / filesharing would be the decentralization of the deedbot wot itself, i.e. pgp keys & ratings etc. distributed across pest
d1710376b8bf3460…b8bf3460…2022-08-28 19:21:52 <awt> for bob, if alice is cold, bob is going to be periodically sending out ac messages to john, and john's going to have to store those messages.
6de0fab17d526219…7d526219…2022-07-04 17:26:45 <shinohai> This connect/disconnect shit is getting annoying.
d3c8bbe1068daa42…068daa42…2022-08-24 16:54:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011325 << may've said this before, but imho dulapnet oughta be replaced with a pest gate of the type proposed by phf
7dc49f8b90e0245f…90e0245f…2022-08-26 23:36:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 19:45:41 phf[billymg|signpost]: i'm so far designing my pest to keep the packets indefinitely. considering that the whole of tmsr, including that utterly pointless b-a ancient history, was about 450mb in memory. from that perspective if things like rating become simply some form of structured pronounce
8ee9da5117ec686e…d1710376…2022-08-28 19:33:29 <awt> jonsykkel: if alice is dead - ac broadcasts may continue for eternity
11e7a1dc17ec686e…17ec686e…2022-08-28 19:33:31 <jonsykkel> awt: indeed, but longbufer only stores last hour
7b7aed666de0fab1…ffd47c02…2022-07-04 18:52:53 <signpost> my client has a toggle to hide/show those messages. isn't really a big deal.
160a709bd3c8bbe1…9e2654b8…2022-08-24 16:55:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:27:19 phf[awt]: billymg, there's a slump, but there's also definitely bifurcation. occassional drive by comment, or a vex stream, or some "hello, i'm still alive" ping will go to either, and necessarily splits the attention
d8ca1c1711e7a1dc…11e7a1dc…2022-08-28 19:33:59 <jonsykkel> so u will only have ur bufer capacity permanently reduced by ~60*dead_peers
73b93748160a709b…d3c8bbe1…2022-08-24 17:00:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011366 << there afaik are 2 plausible models. 1 is where 'there are interesting people with the time & juice for interesting discussion, they simply need a new protocol' but there's naturally also the ~other~ one. 'best magician cannot pull rabbit from hat unless there is in fact a r
ae45b6ead4c0f594…7ff8596f…2022-08-27 00:30:21 <signpost> guess I could've been sending one out tbh, but I can't find the residue of that particular embarassment in my noggin.
633833f8d8ca1c17…8ee9da51…2022-08-28 19:36:48 <awt> True. Need to fix blatta long buffer though :( currently just goes straight to db and stores forever.
86165f4b73b93748…160a709b…2022-08-24 17:01:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 17:17:16 signpost: (and of course, little things break through and become big at exactly that kind of time, when the incumbent falters)
e5b23219852064be…ae45b6ea…2022-08-28 19:40:15 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011732 << when the stock market takes another rip downward normies will be fleeing their goxcorn too.
a73aaebf86165f4b…73b93748…2022-08-24 17:02:51 <asciilifeform> ( ftr to asciilifeform 'big' is synonymous with 'dominated by left snail of bell curve'. in the past, e.g. '90s usenet gave illusion that it can be otherwise, but oughta remember that 1) there was already an implicit filter 2) wasn't all that big )
ec25be21e5b23219…7dc49f8b…2022-08-28 19:40:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-28 13:35:58 shinohai: FIRE SALE!!!!!!
7fcbfc1a2ebaadcc…37610d04…2022-08-28 21:10:55 <signpost> jonsykkel: ty for your incisive analysis :)
fcedbb1ca73aaebf…a73aaebf…2022-08-24 17:03:35 <asciilifeform> ...unless there is in fact a rabbit in that hat'(tm)
08a984cba6fa6bdc…a6fa6bdc…2022-08-28 21:11:38 <jonsykkel> of course as an end user of the socialist state i dont see a big diffrence until i look at detailed section of bill where the compensation is listed
7881fbb4a6fa6bdc…8e7b510d…2022-08-28 21:16:09 <billymg> jonsykkel: let us know when they go sri lankan on the politicians
05f69799fcedbb1c…fcedbb1c…2022-08-24 17:03:58 <asciilifeform> ^ major item on asciilifeform's blatta wishlist -- working msg splitter
006e178c05f69799…05f69799…2022-08-24 17:04:12 <asciilifeform> currently snips off rather arbitrarily
51735fac48462f3f…4d5b75a9…2022-08-28 19:59:41 <billymg> anyone here have any insight into what's going on with eu energy prices? on the surface it looks like they're in for an interesting winter
fc0cbfb16dd8f9f9…7fcbfc1a…2022-08-28 21:16:50 <signpost> I kinda want to buy a natgas etf, but I figure every time I have an urge like that I'm too late for the trade.
bb39ff0b6dd8f9f9…6dd8f9f9…2022-08-30 22:09:53 jonsykkel microwaves a https://www.sg.no/globalassets/pimimages/4851036.jpg?w=640&h=360&scale=both
82251303a01f4168…a01f4168…2022-08-27 14:57:54 <whaack> just got back from a surf trip within the country
8aaf904751735fac…48462f3f…2022-08-28 20:08:39 <awt> Kind of hard to believe it's as bad as they say.
acacf61cfc0cbfb1…7df5a2ef…2022-08-28 21:17:05 <awt> signpost: hard to believe *it will be* I think is more what I meant. Disasters on the horizon for a long time tend not to be as bad as predicted.
dc7c30ff04852b54…236650ee…2022-07-05 16:13:36 <awt> What would be an appropriate mechanism through which blatta could expose an "API" to a mutable client?
0276eaa58e6ae211…8e6ae211…2022-08-24 17:15:51 <awt> asciilifeform: also on my wishlist is a protocol spec for pest clients. I will likely need some help there. Just don't want to put too much more effort into IRC support.
780bd84682251303…82251303…2022-08-27 14:58:21 <whaack> we passed by Dominical twice, pretty cool to see many of the vendors there accepting bitcoin, even if it was in the lightning network form
878bf2e5acacf61c…fc0cbfb1…2022-08-28 21:19:18 <signpost> yeah, being cold or without power is not an apocalypse, I agree.
b4e8a963095b59e8…c72a5d8d…2022-08-30 22:23:06 <asciilifeform> lol apparently soros didn't share his elixir of immortality with the d00d
435e03240276eaa5…006e178c…2022-08-24 19:48:04 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011394 << this kinda lul periodically comes up, and asciilifeform can't resist to comment :
b22d643b780bd846…1b9c68ce…2022-08-27 14:58:52 <awt> Oh I went to a cafe there that accepted bitcoin. Actually ran into the owners in Santa Ana.
ea9453af7df5a2ef…692c2739…2022-08-28 20:36:44 <signpost> why hard to believe? https://assets.zerohedge.com/s3fs-public/2022-08/75c1a84eec22b664b7a47481e3b8c1d3.png
ace24d0d878bf2e5…acacf61c…2022-08-28 21:19:38 <awt> War started early in the year. Anyone with a clue would have been preparing since then.
8c607f59b4e8a963…b4e8a963…2022-08-30 22:23:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011955 << do they need excuse ?
b4a416bf9d43cd99…9d43cd99…2022-07-05 16:16:41 <signpost> in deedbot's case, I used a shared database into which the IRC-facing component writes, and an arbitrary number of services read. there's an "outbox" table into which services write, and deedbot spits the outbound message to IRC.
b894e8a7435e0324…86165f4b…2022-08-24 19:48:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:31:16 billymg: yep, developers fair game now
21dbdee6ea9453af…ea9453af…2022-08-28 20:41:45 <signpost> billymg: german bureaucrats are already talking about begging to turn on nord stream 2.
ed379341ace24d0d…878bf2e5…2022-08-28 21:19:48 <signpost> more/less expected standard of living under socialism
3d3f6f568c607f59…421547cc…2022-08-30 22:24:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 17:39:30 signpost: awt: what do you think the interest rate cut excuse is going to be?
c7c57cad691bbb20…8165028c…2022-08-31 15:05:04 <PeterL> If you know what you are doing, you can get microshit to not break up tables, it is not too hard
7d878736b4a416bf…b4a416bf…2022-07-05 16:17:13 <signpost> afaik sqlite's already plenty capable of concurrent access
2aa9d47fb894e8a7…435e0324…2022-08-24 19:49:53 <asciilifeform> in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto'
59bfa3aa21dbdee6…51735fac…2022-08-28 21:03:17 <billymg> signpost: ah, i didn't hear that (that germany is thinking of crawling back to russia)
e966c50bed379341…ed379341…2022-08-28 21:21:49 <signpost> curious if these numbers are accurate: https://www.worldometers.info/gas/germany-natural-gas/
a8bd74403d3f6f56…14e6b444…2022-08-30 22:52:25 <awt> signpost: no idea what the excuse will be. I thought for sure something would have broken by now.
28f074069e22d575…af170671…2022-08-31 15:07:45 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: neato, seems to be the item 'with links' phf was referring to
55dcdbae7d878736…7d878736…2022-07-05 16:18:55 <signpost> a second suggestion would be named pipes for IN and OUT.
4cfce31a2aa9d47f…2aa9d47f…2022-08-24 19:51:41 <asciilifeform> and ftr if asciilifeform one day hears that buchenwald has been reopened, and the barracks filled with shitcoin 'money makers' waiting to be fed to rottweilers one at a time, toes 1st -- won't feel any emotion but vague 'good things ~do~ occasionally happen'
918739c959bfa3aa…59bfa3aa…2022-08-28 21:04:21 <billymg> signpost: re: why hard to believe, can't speak for awt but i felt that way also, mainly because of the constant media gaslighting for the last 3 years on nearly any and every topic
dcbe0cef55dcdbae…55dcdbae…2022-07-05 16:19:56 <signpost> one'd have to define the protocol these speak, probably pulled directly from already defined client commands.
de51919c5a7327a8…5a7327a8…2022-08-27 15:01:28 <whaack> i met a very bright 13yo kid there, he has a large vocabulary for his/any age , his mom has taken him traveling all over the world, never put him in school and moves a library with him
ada547e0b9e07e0c…b9e07e0c…2022-08-31 22:01:55 <jonsykkel> crtdaydreams: its not a temp dir unles i delete it
9a72b130dcbe0cef…dcbe0cef…2022-07-05 16:20:40 signpost checks what PIPE_BUF is in limits.h and whether it's larger than largest pest message.
759bfad8c47b4897…938a85dc…2022-08-24 21:58:55 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades
a7d502f4e5035862…e5035862…2022-08-28 21:03:00 <signpost> if the question is whether people will do anything about lack of heat or power, no argument to the contrary here.
05e59e6cada547e0…ada547e0…2022-08-31 22:02:22 <jonsykkel> i puted that in my uplode script just to prevent ppl from guessing urls
fbe888739a72b130…9a72b130…2022-07-05 16:21:07 <signpost> (because that way there isn't iirc risk of message interleaving on the pipes with concurrent outbound writes)
a39d9b58759bfad8…b894e8a7…2022-08-24 21:55:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 10:56:01 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: billymg: lol, it's an unremarkable hovel 30m walk from the prev one
042d2558cb1292b1…de51919c…2022-08-27 15:03:07 <whaack> they started talking to me about bitcoin and then after a very extended conversation they invited me to Citrus in Ojochal, incredibly good restaraunt
8b12c6dba7d502f4…918739c9…2022-08-28 21:07:14 <billymg> signpost: that would mean them paying in rubles, right? or did russia budge on that at some point?
2483fff9a3dc4051…a3dc4051…2022-08-29 03:05:17 asciilifeform went for 1st time since iirc '17, w/ meatspace folx
1034e3be05e59e6c…05e59e6c…2022-08-31 22:10:39 <jonsykkel> dont have infinite space on my 1dolar sewer grade vps so it might wel become a temp dir in a few years
415bae8ca39d9b58…759bfad8…2022-08-24 22:00:03 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011518 << right, like http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2021-09-21#1059014
a0471adf042d2558…042d2558…2022-08-27 15:08:53 <whaack> awt: yup, quite lucky kid, not sure exactly the details of his relation with his dad other than the dad lives in Turkey. I will probably try to get him communicating with me via Pest soon so he may pop in the channel sometime in the near future
cab738688b12c6db…a7d502f4…2022-08-28 21:03:54 <signpost> I'm not aware that russia has budged on a thing, look like they're doing great atm.
3c8992eb962165cd…962165cd…2022-07-05 16:24:20 <signpost> before 2.6.11 kernel, 4096 bytes fixed. >=2.6.11 65536 bytes and configurable.
5230f47b415bae8c…a39d9b58…2022-08-24 21:56:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 15:50:42 asciilifeform[4]: in 100% of these, the reich.'crime' aint 'ohnoez, wrote a proggy, and it was 'too kewl for skool'', but rather 'ohey, identifiable plebe with a nontrivial coin-denominated income stream, let's dekulakize pronto'
21683cbf5230f47b…5230f47b…2022-08-24 21:56:50 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-21 asciilifeform: shinohai: moar likely they simply wanted some btc (perhaps to refill waterfall, hence yest.'s -xx% dump)
f1feb450fd97a1d5…fd97a1d5…2022-08-27 19:23:38 <awt> Surprised to find no mentions of Pyotr Wrangel in the logs
8e7b510d0a8303dc…0a8303dc…2022-08-28 21:10:20 <billymg> i like asking on pest because folks here have a way of giving [very clear answers][http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011254] that can't be found elsewhere
cbe22ce787623f9c…dc7c30ff…2022-07-05 16:26:05 <awt> Seems like what I'd want to do is send all received messages to the pipe, skipping the short buffer and order buffer.
573d26ae21683cbf…415bae8c…2022-08-24 22:00:56 <billymg> i didn't know this particular victim was also running a scam, thought he merely provided the software
ab68eff6f1feb450…21a38621…2022-08-27 19:59:41 <phf> вот он, застенков мститель, боёв ваятель - в чёрной чеченке, с рукою на рукояти
f8acb5328e7b510d…ec25be21…2022-08-28 21:07:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 11:55:00 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-21#1011252 << “jordan peterson, the mastermind behind american trumpism, and trump’s number one advisor”
a447bdb8c8de9f2d…0af40e90…2022-09-04 20:36:46 <awt> phf any recommended reading wrt breaking lines of utf8 encoded text properly?
99fe04bdc8de9f2d…c8de9f2d…2022-09-04 20:43:35 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/code/smalpest/tree/src/utf8.c
07fdd9d5cbe22ce7…87623f9c…2022-07-05 16:26:32 <signpost> wouldn't services want to receive deduplicated messages though?
4f245322573d26ae…573d26ae…2022-08-24 22:01:21 <billymg> though possibly was hosting it "as a service" and taking a %, didn't bother looking into it
57ff250bab68eff6…f1feb450…2022-08-27 20:21:22 <awt> saving everyone a trip to google translate, which doesn't help: "here he is, the dungeon avenger, the fighting sculptor - in a black Chechen, with a hand on the hilt"
9b67e8ba99fe04bd…99fe04bd…2022-09-04 20:53:43 <jonsykkel> that cram_unsafe function assumes a valid utf8string and returns the size (in bytes) of the utf8string (starting from begining of string) that it can fit into bufer of size buf_size
b5b5e08d07fdd9d5…07fdd9d5…2022-07-05 16:26:47 <signpost> with e.g. deedbot I wouldn't want it hit with every duplicate of the same command
f16913a34f245322…4f245322…2022-08-24 22:03:06 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it?
bb0ee92957ff250b…ab68eff6…2022-08-27 20:30:45 <phf> that's why i've not even attempted to translate, it's a particularly gnarly tsvetaeva poem, with a chapter about wrangel
c5e6628f44f10822…d24adcfa…2022-09-01 13:04:21 <shinohai> At risk of phf calling me a hoarding poser I took the files jonsykkel uploaded, combined them to single file with Ghostscript, and mirrored here http://btc.info.gf/devel/warez/taocp.pdf
dc985003b5b5e08d…b9d89b3c…2022-07-05 16:26:59 asciilifeform doesn't see wai you'd want to bypass the shortbuffer
ba272731f16913a3…21683cbf…2022-08-24 21:59:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:29:41 awt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-08-24#1011538 << purely palliative measure until "tru logs" via pest db rather than pushing a string through the IRC hole
314d7d78bb0ee929…bb0ee929…2022-08-27 20:32:54 <phf> man, that google translation is awful, i'm just going to do meaning translation then,
4b7de7b4c5e6628f…c6aa9719…2022-09-01 13:04:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 08:54:01 phf[awt]: i'll go out on a limb and say that i suspect that not a single digital copy of taocp that's circulating in pirate version has ever been read, and that it's all larp and chan style hoarding “got some lit warez bro, makes you smart”
af239da5e0cf5b87…e0cf5b87…2022-09-05 02:44:47 <jonsykkel> awt: inded, my pestron unchanged for 6months so it dosnt necesarily behave specfully in all cases
19dcb52fdc985003…cbe22ce7…2022-07-05 16:27:44 <awt> ah ok yeah, so would want to send each short buffer dump to the pipe.
e94850f1ba272731…a1202ce6…2022-08-24 21:59:30 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:25:00 asciilifeform: awt: rright but a logotron with manual gearshift is questionable proposition
2172b1e4314d7d78…314d7d78…2022-08-27 20:36:13 <phf> there he is, the avenger for the interrogation rooms, the sculptor of battles - in a black woolen coat, with a hand of on the hilt
742224394b7de7b4…6f6c71aa…2022-09-01 13:18:29 <asciilifeform> lol shinohai , e.g. asciilifeform normally ~splits~ pdfs before reading, as he doesn't have a cray on which to read and as they are slow enuff to scroll
46578245d501f620…d501f620…2022-09-04 21:10:18 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-04#1012135 << you don't need any special mechanisms, i just use a dumb iterator that encodes a subsequences until i get the right length
ed6b7b90af239da5…331a900a…2022-09-05 02:50:59 <awt> jonsykkel: ok. Good test case though - those should be getting deduped and dropped by blatta but they're not for some reason.
cd9c186eaf239da5…af239da5…2022-09-05 02:51:48 <jonsykkel> awt: they must be "deduped" by cheking the speker field
b13bed2119dcb52f…b5b5e08d…2022-07-05 16:27:59 <signpost> yup, w/e a human client would also receive.
7cd63ce7914c4d2f…19dcb52f…2022-07-05 16:36:20 <awt> Now thinking about how GETDATA responses would be routed to theh pipe...
3e636b322172b1e4…2172b1e4…2022-08-27 20:50:18 <phf> was trying to find the canonical english name for his coat (it's variously named from or after the various caucasus tribes that wore it, tsvetaeva in her poem calls is "chechenka" after chechens, but in russian it'll be more commonly named "cherkeska" after circassians), and was reminded again that wikipedia is trash, but
d1a515bc74222439…c5e6628f…2022-09-01 13:20:12 <shinohai> I mean, can throw the split version into a .zip or something. I generally read pdf stuff mobile and have no "slow scroll" problems but meh.
15a20f2946578245…a0d99168…2022-09-04 21:10:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-04 16:37:19 awt: phf any recommended reading wrt breaking lines of utf8 encoded text properly?
8ca5b5bcb13bed21…b13bed21…2022-07-05 16:28:31 <signpost> protocol behavior shouldn't change whether the human or another program is attached to blatta.
c5ba62923e636b32…3e636b32…2022-08-27 20:50:18 <phf> it's particularly bad now when it comes to politically charged topics. all kinds of retcon and propaganda in the articles related to cossacks
6e4c9e3f15a20f29…46578245…2022-09-04 21:10:33 <phf> e.g. s=u'a\u0430\u65e5'; [len(s[:i].encode('utf-8')) for i in range(1,len(s)+1)]
b3b02fb02f6aa3a8…2f6aa3a8…2022-09-05 02:52:28 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2021-12-30#1070511
abc6230a9559e31b…dc985003…2022-07-05 16:38:30 <asciilifeform> yer prolly stuck exposing some protocol, in particularly msg hashes, if you want operator to be able to e.g. answer in past threads
44ca829800b3a728…f16913a3…2022-08-24 22:09:06 <billymg> awt: ok, might take a look at doing that soon then
b3675044c5ba6292…57ff250b…2022-08-27 21:14:47 <awt> Couldn't find any of the garments you mentioned but Pyotr is in there: http://alethepedia.com/?p=35188
f3f2221db3b02fb0…bce76f13…2022-09-05 02:53:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-30 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-12-30#1070489 << there's no wot entry / key for self, so this aint actually a problem
2b4f6e2eb3b02fb0…b3b02fb0…2022-09-05 02:59:00 <jonsykkel> awt: ye im not sure, looking at code i think posibly made a mistake originaly, not putting these in dedup bufer when sending adn thats why i had problem
b0180656abc6230a…7cd63ce7…2022-07-05 16:38:44 <awt> They wouldn't need to go through the order buffer because the mutable client could display them in the proper order.
dbfc204bb3675044…c5ba6292…2022-08-27 21:21:44 <phf> http://slavhistory.ru/up/photos/album/jul17/170720_2313.jpg kuban cossacs wearing cherkeska
eea0a140aeeefcc9…6e4c9e3f…2022-09-04 21:42:48 <phf> awt, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=E9bu is the general idea. that's just a naive port of an equally naive algo i use in pest.lisp
3772681baeeefcc9…8448f804…2023-06-30 18:33:40 <awt_akris> Possibly will inclucde a statically linked copy of python3.
8b64b2adf3f2221d…89e0cffa…2022-09-05 02:53:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-30 jonsykkel: asciilifeform: are you meant to check that speaker field matches peer that you successfully decrypted addr cast from? (if not, how to distinguish bounce baks of own addr casts)
fa04cd40b0180656…9559e31b…2022-07-05 16:39:11 signpost responding specifically to GETDATA; in what case would it be a UI's responsibility to issue that vs blatta itself
1d61384edbfc204b…dbfc204b…2022-08-27 21:23:44 <phf> and nikolai the second wearing the same outfit (his was red though) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48050981657_06e2f9a58d_o.jpg
10d2c42216906aa4…66d035e4…2022-09-01 19:29:58 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011963 << "2008" took a lot longer than it seems in retrospect
454e4ff6eea0a140…eea0a140…2022-09-04 21:43:34 <phf> but notice! that \u1dd4 is a combining character that gets applied to `o' before it, and the combination of the two looks like oᷔ
d85e22b63772681b…5a3812d6…2023-07-01 02:21:09 <signpost> asciilifeform: yep, why futures ETFs came first too, of course.
e7b3a00d8b64b2ad…f1f6ca03…2022-09-05 02:56:04 <awt> jonsykkel: still, they go into the long buffer before being sent out, so should be deduped.
3afc8c787cfc0d67…7cfc0d67…2022-09-05 03:16:30 <jonsykkel> i guess this discusion was from before it was specified that mesages originated from ur own station gets put in buffer
f2e698ddfa04cd40…fa04cd40…2022-07-05 16:39:42 <signpost> the client-side should think in terms of a threaded log, and expose API to interact with that threaded log
1bd9c54591472df0…65aab015…2022-08-24 22:13:56 <phf> i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets
c448c6ac1d61384e…1d61384e…2022-08-27 21:26:07 <phf> wrangel in his canonical "black baron" outfit https://r4.mt.ru/r1/photo3A1E/20277048642-0/jpg/bp.jpeg
946d317210d2c422…4b7de7b4…2022-09-01 19:30:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 18:52:56 awt: signpost: no idea what the excuse will be. I thought for sure something would have broken by now.
7b4ca95a454e4ff6…454e4ff6…2022-09-04 21:44:54 <phf> correct method would be rewrite/augment the function so that instead of considering a unicode character it would consider a unicode character group, and when u'o\u1dd4' doesn't fit, then skip both o and \u1dd4
a8986ae7d85e22b6…d85e22b6…2023-07-01 02:21:45 <signpost> and why they're going to crack open coinbase and kraken before approving spot ETFs.
abde66c63afc8c78…3afc8c78…2022-09-05 03:16:46 <jonsykkel> but doing that should inded solve the problem without ahveing to do the speaker thing
46bb92551bd9c545…1bd9c545…2022-08-24 22:14:57 <phf> kind of neat, at late 90s state of the art now :>
4ed30f23c448c6ac…c448c6ac…2022-08-27 21:29:25 <phf> also you'll have better luck finding it, if you search for "черкеска"
f1a45767946d3172…10d2c422…2022-09-01 20:07:26 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UFQWKjy_I
79c8fea97b4ca95a…7b4ca95a…2022-09-04 21:46:21 <phf> because i don't have that implemented you see output like 6 а日o 6 ᷔaа
4b2118dfa8986ae7…a8986ae7…2023-07-01 02:23:50 signpost just waiting for the day saylor's outed as a spook, too. satan has a style.
f739168fabde66c6…e7b3a00d…2022-09-05 03:24:03 <awt> Wow. my station managed to update the at for several cold peers to its own address, then seemingly send itself address cast messages.
c2bb79ea46bb9255…46bb9255…2022-08-24 22:22:23 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011482 << well that's kind of my point, the good old “we don't want you here — i didn't want to be here to begin with because you're all lame!!1”. meanwhile i suspect there's people on hackernews who might be amendable to reason, who otherwise think that ptacek is be all end al
dc91cf9a4ed30f23…4ed30f23…2022-08-27 21:34:14 <phf> those chest decorations are measured gunpowder flasks for muzzle loaders
522dcb364b2118df…a5d63424…2023-07-01 03:28:30 <awt> key awt_mbpro 24UIgLgrIAS3Btq7/rhehxOI/ZjN90Wr5hSTAr4y7kz8vzeKNUjVVI1tMp50IfhgLGvnvbxeGjUKX3sp6Gs08A==
3d72af0841fec7be…b9b8edb9…2022-09-05 03:47:18 <phf> the ultimate "i only want to talk to smart and intelligent people" move
1d00edd5e2a7222b…e2a7222b…2022-07-05 16:40:14 <signpost> right, so doesn't need to go through the pipe unless I'm mistaken.
cef7396ac2bb79ea…ba272731…2022-08-24 22:22:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:07:51 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011472 << see also. asciilifeform's conclusion was 'forum for lamers, fughetit'
75f7304adc91cf9a…dc91cf9a…2022-08-27 21:35:27 <phf> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Pyotr_Wrangel_1920%2C_painting.jpg
612bc6cc1d00edd5…f11c8b6d…2022-07-05 16:42:01 <awt> signpost: in that case how would the mutable client get access to GETDATA responses? Query said API based on hashes of messages coming through the short buffer?
ae292cbacef7396a…8828ab9b…2022-08-24 22:30:26 <phf> deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer
0db6c5a375f7304a…75f7304a…2022-08-27 21:37:22 <phf> oh there's a straight to the point wp article on the subject of that tool https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazyr
05a96a2f477b1eea…1c1fba5e…2022-09-02 03:44:11 <awt> lol that last biden speech was one of those speeches where they announce they're gonig to round up all the cockroaches
d8d2866e17afdf79…f739168f…2022-09-05 16:50:14 <awt> jonsykkel: can you confirm that your station is still reflecting address cast messages?
123e131b0aba1b39…17afdf79…2022-09-05 22:22:20 <asciilifeform> phf: re knuth #4 -- recall how he gives 'difficulty' for puzzles, '0 -- trivial' to '50 -- unsolved'; there's lulzily 1 in 4a which reduces to riemann hypothesis, marked.. '45'
daa2d219612bc6cc…1d00edd5…2022-07-05 16:43:19 <signpost> blatta would say "there is a child message of message $hash" in some manner.
f0934d99ae292cba…ae292cba…2022-08-24 22:37:43 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011528 << does blatta already correctly sort the messages? that is if one to query blatta database will packets come out in the correct timestamp/netchain/selfchain order?
f0e7e4ee0db6c5a3…0db6c5a3…2022-08-27 21:40:55 <phf> a ru article about subj, with pretty photos https://coonwood.ru/psychology/skolko-gazyrei-dolzhno-byt-u-chechenskoi-cherkeski-iz-istorii-cherkeski.html
9b92de9505a96a2f…05a96a2f…2022-09-02 04:07:40 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012031 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdAMq5LdAvs&t=55s
12d7cbc3bafcbbc0…21d853a8…2022-09-05 00:45:25 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-29#1113428 << this thing does A LOT of nutty shit in the "installer" script.
9f77ac4cd8d2866e…d8d2866e…2022-09-05 16:50:39 <awt> Not seeing them anymore, hopefully because of dedup
fbeb3d27123e131b…9f77ac4c…2022-09-05 22:37:46 <awt> Currently 108 degrees here in Sac. They're threatening to cut the power if everyone doesn't set their thermostat to 80.
bc6920fbdaa2d219…daa2d219…2022-07-05 16:44:24 <signpost> to my mind the role of the pest server is to process the protocol on one side, and express mutatons on its core data structure (a threaded log) on the other.
c2989d61f0934d99…cef7396a…2022-08-24 22:38:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 17:59:52 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011498 << any reason i couldn't try to hack together something for the existing logotron that tails blatta's sqlite db for the inserts instead of having the bot do it?
11f913249b92de95…946d3172…2022-09-02 04:08:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 11:07:06 jonsykkel: http://zzz.st/up/attJetrT/vol1.pdf
bce76f1312d7cbc3…15a20f29…2022-09-05 00:45:58 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-29 mats: https://github.com/ainfosec/FISSURE
fa6cc5c5962656a6…c95e67e6…2023-07-01 03:29:33 <signpost> yeah having commands right here in the megaphone hole has been a bit puckerful
54a5cc62fbeb3d27…16906aa4…2022-09-05 23:19:20 <billymg> awt: i thought the "please don't charge your electric vehicles" about 2-3 days after "ICE cars will be banned by 2035" was priceless
67790a99d7c7f264…622bbc33…2022-09-06 00:16:50 <billymg> re: diesel, was checking these guys out recently: https://www.springboardbiodiesel.com/
e409f968d7c7f264…d7c7f264…2022-09-07 00:47:03 <jonsykkel> wat about storeing the steam in a baloon tied to top of the car, then opening valve into turbine when u need juice
fcc26c2dbc6920fb…bc6920fb…2022-07-05 16:46:44 <signpost> in this model GETDATA is an implementation detail for how the server requests the data needed to fill in missing parts of the log. this shouldn't be something that gets initiated by services (deedbot, busybot, etc) connected to the server.
107363a2c2989d61…f0934d99…2022-08-24 22:40:11 <phf> i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec precisely?
f366516a11f91324…9b92de95…2022-09-02 04:09:34 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012022 << why not hardcopy? i suspect you have them within hand reach
56917d8cbce76f13…bafcbbc0…2022-09-05 00:57:34 <awt> I'm getting address cast messages from jonsykkel
f1badbba67790a99…67790a99…2022-09-06 00:18:53 <billymg> based on the pricing for the base model looks like it could be imported to cr for around 20-25k total. then you just gotta get in good with the restaurants dumping their fry oil
aa3eb34be409f968…9ab52cf4…2022-09-07 00:52:24 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: who didn't make this in childhood, lol
b394f4fefcc26c2d…fcc26c2d…2022-07-05 16:48:28 <signpost> to client services, I'd expect them to be passed messages (including info which allows a client to position the message correctly)
1ff9a45f107363a2…91472df0…2022-08-24 22:42:21 <awt> phf: no there's no mechanism for extracting a chain in order. messages are stored in the log table as decrypted binary objects.
646d0391f366516a…11f91324…2022-09-02 04:10:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 10:55:03 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012014 << asciilifeform freely admits to having seriously eaten such sections as were relevant to things he was doing at the time; most recently ffaism
883ae9cb7736be93…7736be93…2022-09-05 23:20:17 <awt> Seems like ICE will be around for a while in central/south america.
2bc77063f1badbba…44b43446…2022-09-06 00:16:01 <awt> Would feel bad profiting off of people consuming seed oils
5cdb243fa91b87a5…aa3eb34b…2022-09-07 00:53:13 <asciilifeform> ( laff, but occasional crackpot actually proposes 'compressed air car' in earnest. 'folx who can't do arithmetic are doomed to talk nonsense'(tm)(r)(jmc) )
4fc2c4e2a91b87a5…a91b87a5…2022-09-07 00:54:46 <jonsykkel> ye i guess the baloons wouldnt fit trhough tunnels etc
fffe338ab394f4fe…b394f4fe…2022-07-05 16:50:18 <signpost> doesn't mean nothing of pest protocol comes through. one'd want to peer, key, at, etc all from the client.
bb00ccf61ff9a45f…4cfce31a…2022-08-24 22:49:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011541 << this aint wrong, but in asciilifeform's pov, so far the interesting people he's met have entirely diff problem (finding ea.other at all!) rather than censors
6e32087e0fcf0c01…4b0e0654…2022-08-28 18:49:15 <awt> May need a mechanism to filter out dupe address casts. Don't really want to store address cast messages in the long buffer though.
2daaea66646d0391…f366516a…2022-09-02 04:12:44 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-01#1012062 << you have a grace period to apply it, before you become a filthy hoarder :>
424b0ff326fdbb92…26fdbb92…2022-09-05 01:14:54 <phf> awt, i'm getting a bunch of addresscast messages from you, at a frequency of about 1/s
f7b32fde883ae9cb…883ae9cb…2022-09-05 23:21:39 <awt> Is there a term that covers both central and south america? Maybe latam?
03eb28902bc77063…f1badbba…2022-09-06 00:21:10 billymg partakes in the occasional french fry or chicken wing
41da4f974fc2c4e2…4fc2c4e2…2022-09-07 01:04:25 <jonsykkel> im joking, but jokes aside, u would have the steam engine + tank to solve the slow to revv problem. why wouldnt that work
7b435b7efffe338a…fffe338a…2022-07-05 16:50:54 <signpost> just means the server is trusted to handle the mechanics of the messaging protocol by itself, without unnecessary leakage of abstraction.
4f4b7927bb00ccf6…c2989d61…2022-08-24 22:50:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 18:30:56 phf[awt]: deplatforming goes beyond “kicked off twitter” and it's all the things discussed on #t already: removed from searches for russian propaganda, confiscated dns for racism, at what point does own platform becomes funcitonally equivalent to publishing to desk drawer
c3f2e2d72daaea66…646d0391…2022-09-02 04:13:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-01 09:04:57 shinohai: At risk of phf calling me a hoarding poser I took the files jonsykkel uploaded, combined them to single file with Ghostscript, and mirrored here http://btc.info.gf/devel/warez/taocp.pdf
691c462903eb2890…03eb2890…2022-09-06 00:47:29 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-05#1113519 "hey china, could you lend us some money, we need ships to protect tai... er, ukraine... right, planes to protect ukraine"
ccb6e68a7b435b7e…7b435b7e…2022-07-05 16:52:39 signpost bbl, invites awt, asciilifeform, and others to disagree if I've missed something.
6112f37d4f4b7927…bb00ccf6…2022-08-24 22:50:05 <asciilifeform> (whereas the censored!111 weevs, asciilifeform finds mortally tedious, to date, to the last man, fwiw)
044cdf94c3f2e2d7…2daaea66…2022-09-02 04:13:13 <phf> i probably wouldn't use combined version, i have some pretty good recollection of what lives in which book
15008da2691c4629…f3f2221d…2022-09-06 00:44:07 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-05 mats: they could always borrow money from china for more vessels
0690baaa7eb384e7…70478525…2022-09-07 01:10:33 <phf> asciilifeform https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMzhhMTk0YTAtYjA2OS00M2M1LTlhNGEtMmI5YzRlMTE1ZmE1XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjY0Njk3ODk@._V1_.jpg
e8ff56be7eb384e7…7eb384e7…2022-09-07 10:45:21 <jonsykkel> u cud use superhot steam to press air into tank then put that into wheels
61a195cc6112f37d…6112f37d…2022-08-24 22:52:39 <asciilifeform> e.g. asciilifeform , 'uncatchable joe', not earned to be censored from dns, much less car bomb, but for ~decade had ~nobody to meaningfuly talk to on the net
c47cfafd840bf101…76d83266…2022-09-05 02:23:14 <awt> jonsykkel: it looks like smalpest is reflecting my address_cast packets right back at me
ed84ad5c556b005f…54a5cc62…2022-09-05 23:54:48 <billymg> awt: latin america is what i use for that at least
8553116215008da2…691c4629…2022-09-06 00:52:03 billymg assumes that was the joke mats was making anyway, but since he's not here yet, had to quote him
de79b6d8e8ff56be…e8ff56be…2022-09-07 10:52:01 <jonsykkel> maybe it dosnt work, im low steam-iq so i cant say
b9da28237c65f87a…7c65f87a…2022-07-05 17:46:25 <awt> Also need to think about how to rip out the order buffer and where it might go.
326d691b61a195cc…61a195cc…2022-08-24 22:55:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011536 << this'd be what 'prod' was intended for, neh
27e7d763c47cfafd…c47cfafd…2022-09-05 02:35:39 <awt> Δαρείου καὶ Παρυσάτιδος γίγνονται παῖδες δύο, πρεσβύτερος μὲν Ἀρταξέρξης, νεώτερος δὲ Κῦρος: ἐπεὶ δὲ ἠσθένει Δαρεῖος καὶ ὑπώπτευε τελευτὴν τοῦ βίου, ἐβούλετο τὼ παῖδε
564b0edced84ad5c…ed84ad5c…2022-09-05 23:55:00 <billymg> and yeah, way too many people here driving cars from the 80s still
e806e76e85531162…15008da2…2022-09-06 00:48:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-28 17:30:50 signpost: hey mats, get a pest station already.
9fe2a987ba2e0b2a…58c3fdae…2022-09-07 03:17:21 <asciilifeform> луц-powered, recall, explicitly told in story
ccc18a18de79b6d8…de79b6d8…2022-09-07 12:31:02 <jonsykkel> in non-steams, ive ben experimenting with nat traversal
02186282b9da2823…b9da2823…2022-07-05 17:49:24 <awt> Would want to rip out the IRC server AND the order buffer and move them into a separate script/server for IRC clients.
9ad4d426326d691b…4f4b7927…2022-08-24 22:55:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 18:14:26 phf[awt]: i finally added transparent recovery to networking code for when the network goes down, so now at least when i get on wifi again i start magically getting new packets
6ad0725e564b0edc…556b005f…2022-09-05 23:52:37 <awt> Hoping to be able to bring my subaru down but it sounds like maybe inmigracion is still charging massive tariffs even though they passed the new law
721ee670e806e76e…123e131b…2022-09-06 02:43:32 <asciilifeform> lol erry single ballpoint pen, on erry single 1 of the us ships playing ceremonial games around tw, is made guess where.
0b7eca8302186282…ccb6e68a…2022-07-06 00:25:18 <signpost> in the wake of the chicago shooting I demand that all dangerous transvestites, transsexuals, and transylvanians be recorded in a national registry.
ab4e026c9ad4d426…107363a2…2022-08-24 22:57:22 <phf> oh, that's unrelated to prod. my code used to throw millions of exceptions whenever packets stopped delivering
698a43c0bb479ea0…bb479ea0…2022-09-07 03:18:33 <asciilifeform> ( for n00bs, 'least sexy' but phunctional starship from cult su film 'kin-dza-dza' )
d721c7ce13c030e7…13c030e7…2022-09-07 12:31:38 <jonsykkel> i got setup that looks like this http://zzz.st/up/EKRUGKwc/20220907_143211.png
3d4d79600b7eca83…02186282…2022-07-06 00:45:59 <awt> Yes and a 3 year twitter history must be submitted as well
a1c0d6c4fc59afec…fc59afec…2022-09-06 02:44:54 <asciilifeform> from this, very small step to the ships themselves
34756017698a43c0…698a43c0…2022-09-07 03:19:06 asciilifeform wonders whether anyone made properly synced eng subs for subj
615de9acd721c7ce…d721c7ce…2022-09-07 12:31:43 <jonsykkel> 2 machines behind same nat, 1 behind difrent nat, and 1 not behind any nat
4a1885ad3d4d7960…3d4d7960…2022-07-06 18:23:52 <awt> One problem with named pipes is that only one other process could use a pair of them to communicate with a station.
13a05dc7808d6480…808d6480…2022-08-24 22:57:35 <asciilifeform> hm does the socket somehow die when wifi croaks?
fcb13a2aa1c0d6c4…b19be4a7…2022-09-06 14:13:05 <shinohai> https://github.com/jeremyckahn/chitchatter << Move over pest, they have a WEB APP.
c5d0700e615de9ac…615de9ac…2022-09-07 12:31:50 <jonsykkel> the natted machines are not able to communicate with each other using the same ext.port as D is using
297b17f54a1885ad…0b7eca83…2022-07-06 18:26:54 <signpost> I thought they could be used by multiple processes, which is why I mentioned the bit about PIPE_BUF and interleaving
622bbc3313d79a27…13d79a27…2022-09-05 23:59:34 <billymg> awt: if the used car market is still hot i'd just sell it and buy a diesel toyota when you get here
ed4455d9c5d0700e…c5d0700e…2022-09-07 12:31:54 <jonsykkel> if C forwards port, A and B can reach it, but C sees diffrent src ports than what D is seeing
9264d7dd948c73e8…ab4e026c…2022-08-24 23:00:06 <phf> asciilifeform, there are network states. e.g. if counterparty didn't explicitly disable icmp (which is recommended but not mandated by spec) you'll get a network error when the port times out or udp gets explicitly closed
180a3f58622bbc33…291f4716…2022-09-06 00:05:14 <awt> Sadly my outback is not worth much. Diesel would be great though.
4206317d4a7ae201…4a7ae201…2022-09-06 15:30:52 <phf> signpost, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhq08BQLDs in the alternative, better timeline this is how we visualize WoT
863090eded4455d9…ed4455d9…2022-09-07 12:32:10 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/up/eReJlvWl/20220907_143255.png
f19e175683107cfd…4a1885ad…2022-07-06 18:32:16 <awt> signpost: They can. But once one process reads the contents, the buffer is emptied. I haven't used named pipes before so there may be a way to work around that that I'm not aware of.
5b1348149264d7dd…9264d7dd…2022-08-24 23:00:42 <phf> when wifi goes down and there's nowhere for packet to go at all, os also reports it back as errno
5397df714206317d…4206317d…2022-09-06 15:36:39 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012213 << there are some things to keep note of for future battlepest, e.g. they claim to use bittorrent servers, firebase, and ipfs for peer discovery, which imho is pretty clever
ffff7524863090ed…34756017…2022-09-07 14:51:20 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: 2 boxes under 1 nat likely won't link up, addrcast won't help, as you illustrated. fortunately this doesn't often occur in nature
a63cd26e863090ed…863090ed…2022-09-07 14:52:02 <jonsykkel> ryte but im talking about boxes from different nats trying to link
882c645d5397df71…e806e76e…2022-09-06 15:37:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 10:13:43 shinohai: https://github.com/jeremyckahn/chitchatter << Move over pest, they have a WEB APP.
45e7fbacffff7524…ffff7524…2022-09-07 14:52:47 <asciilifeform> ( however each of'em ought to still be able to peer with stations ~outside~ that nat )
bca63f32a63cd26e…a63cd26e…2022-09-07 14:54:53 <jonsykkel> seems all the nats im behind cares about where packets come from in adition to port
3542d794edc4a67f…edc4a67f…2022-07-06 18:33:09 signpost even mentioned multiple attached services to the same station.
2029fede4f62398a…4f62398a…2022-08-24 23:01:06 <asciilifeform> iirc awt observed this when baking his py proto
445a1fe5882c645d…5397df71…2022-09-06 15:38:46 <phf> also audio/video chatrooms, and binary w/ metadata
15d08ee7bca63f32…45e7fbac…2022-09-07 14:56:19 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: does e.g. 'skype' work from behind your nat? may be worth experiment
acda12e13542d794…abc6230a…2022-07-06 18:36:49 asciilifeform can't think of any persuasive reason not to use ordinary sockets for pestron frontend
11d0116d2029fede…5b134814…2022-08-24 23:01:46 <phf> fwiw i also thought that udp is entirely fire and forget, apparently not so
1311bd22445a1fe5…445a1fe5…2022-09-06 15:45:02 <phf> awt, so i'm getting 5 broadcast messges every ~7s, does that mean that you have 5 peers in your peer database, that are not currently online, so your system is trying to find them? is that what the logic of the system?
dae833399b760de3…9b760de3…2022-09-07 14:58:04 <jonsykkel> but it does drill, just have to initiate conection from behind nat
3a64412211d0116d…2029fede…2022-08-24 23:01:45 <asciilifeform> funny how one doesn't actually get connectionless udp simply 'by asking', the icmp nonsense evidently ubiquitous
e9b651dedae83339…dae83339…2022-09-07 15:00:00 <jonsykkel> cannot use external port that someone else is using (see fig. 2, nat assigns diffrent ports for difrent hosts outside the nat)
c079d1c83a644122…11d0116d…2022-08-24 23:04:26 <phf> the convenient part is that you can start one udp socket, which serves as a server, and when you send from that socket you explicitly specify ip/port on each send. so if you take care of errors when send fails, the first successful send retargets everyone back to that one socket, and everything just works™
e570226fea8561f6…ea8561f6…2022-09-06 15:48:54 <phf> awt, so for example if there's a complete pest net of n stations, everyone's online, then 1 station drops out, now the network in aggregate starts transmitting n-1 address cast messages, because everyone is looking for that 1 offline station? 2 station, n-2, etc.
8afb934ae9b651de…eef3657b…2022-09-07 15:00:58 <asciilifeform> afaik with 'symmetric' nats of the type apparently victimizing jonsykkel , the only drill that worx is to hammer random ports, from both directions, until match
f72072c0f6907ce2…f19e1756…2022-07-06 18:54:51 <awt> s-expressions would be good. easy to tell when you've got the whole command.
fc384c67c079d1c8…3a644122…2022-08-24 23:04:17 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011544 << dollars to doughnuts, it doesn't, asciilifeform did not exhaustively model the thing, is unabashedly на коленке product atm
5c7c2d49e570226f…a1c0d6c4…2022-09-06 15:48:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012216 << clever, but to asciilifeform not clear why needed when you can use any live peer for 'discovery' (i.e. that selfsame addrcast/nat drill thing)
f912652af72072c0…f72072c0…2022-07-06 18:56:23 <awt> the client could send commands, and the station could send back tree operations.
3646e568fc384c67…9ad4d426…2022-08-24 23:05:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 18:40:42 phf[awt]: i ended up making a netchain/selfchain dependency graph and then sorting it with kahn, but i might be overthinking it… i ignored the part of the spec where one's supposed to keep the various lists with pending packets, does the correct ordering fall out from following the spec prec
3a7da2fc5c7c2d49…882c645d…2022-09-06 15:49:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 11:37:13 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012213 << there are some things to keep note of for future battlepest, e.g. they claim to use bittorrent servers, firebase, and ipfs for peer discovery, which imho is pretty clever
608a726df912652a…f912652a…2022-07-06 18:59:24 <awt> perhaps the initial client should be the irc client
b931b5413646e568…c079d1c8…2022-08-24 23:06:19 <phf> the socket otherwise doesn't fail, doesn't need to be restarted (at least as far as i can see), so the actual bookeeping mechanism is very simple
d5a42f2c3a7da2fc…4a7ae201…2022-09-06 15:49:34 <awt> phf: interesting. my log shows them going out every ~60s.
174434494f31c1fd…8afb934a…2022-09-07 15:02:14 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: be sure to post your findings here
144771a3608a726d…f6907ce2…2022-07-06 19:01:35 <signpost> the challenge there would be avoiding letting the constraints of IRC leak into this interface, which was what prompted the effort to split into client and server and define a protocol between 'em.
84cbca1fd5a42f2c…e570226f…2022-09-06 15:50:33 <phf> awt, disregard, i'm stupid and can't read digital clock
db8e888d144771a3…144771a3…2022-07-06 19:01:57 <signpost> writing a weechat plugin instead might be worthwhile since 1) allows python and 2) probably lets you rewrite the entire buffer easily, not just append.
dddfd85a6cd6f013…6cd6f013…2022-08-24 23:17:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011521 << vehehery minor upgrades
5de9327b84cbca1f…84cbca1f…2022-09-06 15:50:59 <phf> you're right, every ~60s, but the other question remains
86651a0cdb8e888d…608a726d…2022-07-06 19:04:54 <awt> Hmm yes. Wouldn't hurt to see what's possible in a plugin.
2eb06c8adddfd85a…3646e568…2022-08-24 23:18:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 17:55:42 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011466 << ah, well, better than nothing. i only asked because it sounded like you were at least adding some cool upgrades
93130afd5de9327b…d5a42f2c…2022-09-06 15:51:04 <awt> phf: Also, yes, that is the logic. Maybe exponential backoff would be better.
c1cf081beb13a219…558ed912…2022-09-07 15:48:23 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012221 << any thoughts on this asciilifeform?
7628ff2eeb13a219…eb13a219…2022-09-08 01:06:41 <jonsykkel> ur code relays packets to the guy it recved from
65834a5d86651a0c…f3c261ea…2022-07-06 21:10:49 asciilifeform hates weechat with a passion, tho using it currently for pestnet (ye olde xchat has problem connecting to >1 box simult.)
101ae2a32eb06c8a…1ff9a45f…2022-08-25 00:14:09 <awt> Thinking further about 'tru logger' this would also perhaps be best done via a socket using a specified protocol. Perhaps if signpost could give a very concrete example of what he images some portion of the protocol might look like I could run with it. Having trouble starting on it as is.
386fc3f093130afd…5de9327b…2022-09-06 15:53:52 <phf> asciilifeform, true, but also all advertised station ips have been knocked offline by an adversarial ddos, etc.
9fddcc39c1cf081b…c07578bf…2022-09-07 15:48:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 11:49:29 phf[awt]: awt, so for example if there's a complete pest net of n stations, everyone's online, then 1 station drops out, now the network in aggregate starts transmitting n-1 address cast messages, because everyone is looking for that 1 offline station? 2 station, n-2, etc.
2114571e65834a5d…ca653b28…2022-07-06 21:10:49 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-06 asciilifeform: finds even 'weechat' gnarly, for reason of impossibility of pasting from it anywhere w/out linebreaks pissed into output
2c361c3a386fc3f0…5c7c2d49…2022-09-06 15:56:55 <asciilifeform> phf: the pill is to have sufficient # of peers that is impractical to knock out all (even if somehow opponent knows ~all~ of'em -- a situation that , come to think of it, is only likely to occur precisely if one 'cheats' and uses external toilets for advertising addrs, ipfs etc)
ec9033422114571e…65834a5d…2022-07-06 21:15:55 <asciilifeform> !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/tbf/tbf_q2_2022.txt
634cc82f2c361c3a…386fc3f0…2022-09-06 15:58:05 <phf> there you trying to bring up pest station from a trench over shortwave, the joint NATO/WEF strike force is on your back, you need to send last message to the comrades, the message that will is a culmination of your succesful but final mission. that's when you piggy back off disney/pfizer™© safe citizen id©™ system to
726851934617f7e6…4617f7e6…2022-09-08 01:25:02 <jonsykkel> # of pakets sent can be reduced somwat by adding a propagation delay before relaying. only relay to ppl u didnt yet recv a copy from. such mechanism alredy exists in specful pestron in form of hearsay buffer. maybe can be generalized for all pakets that are to be flod routed
89b2e763310addec…17443449…2022-09-07 16:07:51 <asciilifeform> awt: indeed you'd want some sorta randomization & backoff there, as suggested by folx in prev thrd
a00a15dc72685193…72685193…2022-09-08 01:25:15 <jonsykkel> but wil not change the results of this particular test, cuz all nodes are interconected
1f38da771449c264…2c361c3a…2022-09-06 15:58:48 <asciilifeform> generally folx who aint peers w/ a station have no biz knowing its ip at all
52f5f1461449c264…109185dc…2022-09-06 16:02:25 <asciilifeform> re ddos generally, pest entirely happpy to ride on arbitrarily large block of ips, or bank of gsm modems, wardrive, etc., by design
ab53a72689b2e763…89b2e763…2022-09-07 16:08:58 <asciilifeform> in fact imho oughta have it across the board, wherever a timeout triggers sumthing 'public'
970ee444a00a15dc…c5accffc…2022-09-08 01:28:01 <phf> jonsykkel, the argument from the relevant thread is that there's nothing to hook the concept of "copy" to
fc2a91fe52f5f146…52f5f146…2022-09-06 17:39:33 <asciilifeform> apropos -- in all srsness, the carrier-agnosticism of pest does mean that you ~could~ upload black packets to lolcatbin or whatnot, if for some odd reason wanted to
dd44ace8ab53a726…ab53a726…2022-09-07 16:10:46 <asciilifeform> awt: of course yer example presupposes that the net is a 'clique' (i.e. erryone-to-erryone peering)
258d7af9fd8247ba…fd8247ba…2022-09-08 01:28:58 <jonsykkel> hash of message is hook innit (or wat is huk here)
b857762cfc2a91fe…fc2a91fe…2022-09-06 17:39:56 <asciilifeform> (similarly to the hypothetical shortwave carrier)
679dcbebdd44ace8…dd44ace8…2022-09-07 16:11:14 <asciilifeform> in actual practice (even on current pestnet) this aint so
8731c7d8258d7af9…970ee444…2022-09-08 01:31:24 <phf> jonsykkel, maybe i'm misunderstanding your proposal also, but each instance of packet in my code correspondes correspondence to what would be a unique hash in prod
4c8e5ab2b857762c…b857762c…2022-09-06 17:43:19 <asciilifeform> ... hell, could sneakernet/hand-carry'em (may want longer timeout, lol, then)
40b463ce679dcbeb…679dcbeb…2022-09-07 16:12:58 asciilifeform suspects that even very naive algo, e.g. 'if there is a cold peer in wot -- then erry second 1/60 chance of shooting addrcast to all hot peers' -- would prevent 'chorusing'
49a749798731c7d8…8731c7d8…2022-09-08 01:32:15 <phf> but there's also no other data on each packet except origin and hash
ec3f2c95d40df2ae…d40df2ae…2022-09-08 01:32:20 <jonsykkel> but it wont be unique since u are relaying them wihtout modification
9b30f4d2d40df2ae…49a74979…2022-09-08 01:32:43 <phf> i meant "hash in production", and yes each packet is an addrcast
d0d41ae44c8e5ab2…4c8e5ab2…2022-09-06 17:48:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012218 << there's no particular reason one couldn't telephonize via pest (if you've a beefy cpu); simply not an item asciilifeform gave much thought to
170785f540b463ce…40b463ce…2022-09-07 16:14:18 <asciilifeform> notion in spec was simply that there aint any point in emitting addrcast if yer actually in contact with yer entire wot at given time
fbd75785d0d41ae4…3a7da2fc…2022-09-06 17:48:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 11:39:21 phf[awt]: also audio/video chatrooms, and binary w/ metadata
c350037f170785f5…170785f5…2022-09-07 16:15:12 <asciilifeform> (and otherwise you want periodic beacon so that the missing peer, in the event he still has a working link with 1 or more on the net, can reconnect)
2edb2aa03d95c55c…3d95c55c…2022-09-08 01:34:05 <phf> wait, i think i understand what you're saying "only relay to ppl u didnt yet recv a copy from."
b6d818a92f9b1a0e…73354379…2022-09-08 01:36:10 <phf> "such mechanism alredy exists in specful pestron in form of hearsay buffer." right, that's correct, but as far as i understand address message is a broadcast, it's already supposed to share same machinery as a regular broadcast, which is what i'm emulating in simulation
65cb4f062f9b1a0e…2f9b1a0e…2022-09-08 01:39:09 <jonsykkel> the cache doesnt do the same thing, if u recv a packet and immediately broadcast it, u might send the packet to a guy who has alredy sent the same packet to u but it hasnt arrived yet
620368dffbd75785…d0d41ae4…2022-09-06 17:48:45 asciilifeform pictures if had been written in '16, say, and then mp: 'this is useless unless camwhores!' etc
709c8565c350037f…c350037f…2022-09-07 16:16:28 <asciilifeform> (ditto ~processing~ addrcast; is rather expensive, so if all yer peers 'hot', no point in doing so)
5e87d85265cb4f06…65cb4f06…2022-09-08 01:40:31 <jonsykkel> it doesnt affect ur simulation cuz theres no alive node that is >1 distance from any other alive node
dc3cfa9f620368df…620368df…2022-09-06 17:50:34 <asciilifeform> ... simply have a variant of 'direct msg' that carries chunk of compressed voice etc.
3266cd47709c8565…ba2e0b2a…2022-09-07 16:18:47 <phf> the icky part is that if your or your counterparty's pest is complete, then you don't have to process anything. but with a single node falling out on either side, you start getting packets or start having to process packets
11d0b0ca3266cd47…3266cd47…2022-09-07 16:19:13 <phf> in practice that means that if one of your nodes falls out, suddenly you have to drink from the firehose of address packets
b8d290596d4ea4b7…6d4ea4b7…2022-09-08 01:43:36 <jonsykkel> i supose could affect a real net even if 100%interconected, but less likely
5302a0cd2395fa31…dc3cfa9f…2022-09-06 17:53:52 <asciilifeform> likely you'd want signpost's luby encoder
51723b0ab8d29059…b004cdb5…2022-09-08 01:45:57 <phf> i think all this idea communicates is that there might be slightly more packets in air, then the simulation predicts (i'm not sure that's correct, i'm failing to visualize it, because end of day)
ff2c4886b8d29059…b8d29059…2022-09-08 01:51:51 <jonsykkel> if i understand u corectly, the delay inded dosnt improve things for the first bounce, it probably even makes sense to skip it for first bnc, but it does make a difrence after that
2b0c23632c3589d2…2c3589d2…2022-09-07 16:20:16 <asciilifeform> the choice afaik is to 'drink always' or 'drink when missing 1 or moar peer'
235073d651723b0a…51723b0a…2022-09-08 01:47:10 <phf> the delay just adds jitter though, to probabily of that falling out, but doesn't necessarily predict it
1d0cb58dff2c4886…ff2c4886…2022-09-08 01:54:17 <jonsykkel> i think primary purposes of hearsay for messages is to give the imediate message a chance to arive , or in the case where it never arives, colect the list of peers that u received same mesage from so can be listed in irclog
3f1044a3ff2c4886…3b4a1d16…2022-09-08 01:54:37 <phf> that's my intuition, i'll have to revisit this point though
e6cbdeca2722b2f2…2722b2f2…2022-09-06 17:55:11 asciilifeform not expects to live to see 'oh hey i maxxed out my 64cpu opteron pest station, canhaz iron coprocessor plz'
e9aecac52b0c2363…2b0c2363…2022-09-07 16:20:30 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform didn't see a point in 'drink always'
8dc12c97e6cbdeca…e6cbdeca…2022-09-06 17:57:04 <asciilifeform> afaik the only pestism that (even hypothetically) would 100% need dedicated irons, so far, is shortwaveism
898ebadae9aecac5…e9aecac5…2022-09-07 16:22:02 <asciilifeform> if bandwidth were somehow in infinite supply, could simply carry ~all~ traffic in addrcast-style broadcast msgs. but in practice this'll get outta hand rather quickly.
e5b79fdbadfcfea3…adfcfea3…2022-09-08 01:55:05 <jonsykkel> and the same info can be used incidentaly to reduce # of packets in air
646689088dc12c97…8dc12c97…2022-09-06 17:57:57 asciilifeform in fact intended to try, but after BingoBoingo desaparecido, no longer has with-whom to sw with , at any interesting distance
bd200406898ebada…898ebada…2022-09-07 16:23:32 <asciilifeform> (the other , not unimportant, point, is that such 'cheat' would eat away at the p2p topological redundancy of pest. stations oughta directly link up with peers whenever possible, and operator oughta know (via hearsayism) if fails)
3bf9f212ba89a492…ba89a492…2022-09-08 01:49:26 <phf> the delay just adds jitter though to the probabily of the backets being in air despite the cache, but otherwise the delay doesn't prevent that situation from happening
51e6b79ebd200406…11d0b0ca…2022-09-07 16:31:23 <phf> i'm more trying to understand this particular mechanism better, because it seems like it feels like it has a potential for a firehose
a870372acf42a282…cf42a282…2022-09-08 02:15:22 <phf> or the other option is that my code is buggy. i think i'm going to stop working on it for now
3749279dd545ffe5…d545ffe5…2022-09-08 03:22:56 <jonsykkel> but i think ends up with right numbers for math reasons
2cb2d429598a33a6…8b64b2ad…2022-09-06 17:58:07 <dulapbot> BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-02-28 12:49:43: In the past month US down ~19% versus Brasil's Real, 5.3% versus Peso Uruguay
a340a25e51e6b79e…51e6b79e…2022-09-07 16:32:28 <phf> you have n stations, one drops out, now n-1 stations are sending n-1 packets to each other to find the missing station, indefinitely. which (n-1)*2 decrypt operations on each machine
3b4a1d1634b44df1…34b44df1…2022-09-08 01:52:25 <phf> in related, i sort of assumed that the delay on hearsay was there so that you could get missing packets before you spool them to write only irc log, so that you preserve order, rather than for p2p purposes. i don't know if i'm correct though
731ffa78a870372a…66919590…2022-09-08 03:13:52 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Kc1c << in other news, onlinecodes lisp prototype works now. working through sbcl's optimization warnings atm, refactoring, etc
eb1b3d953749279d…3749279d…2022-09-08 03:23:04 <jonsykkel> at least thats wat proof by mspaint says http://zzz.st/up/PJvbnNoR/20220908_052234.png
bfd7bbc82cb2d429…598a33a6…2022-09-06 17:59:56 <asciilifeform> 'what good is phone call, mr. andersen, if you have no mouth!'(tm)(r)(c)
f1cf5be4a340a25e…bd200406…2022-09-07 16:33:32 <asciilifeform> phf: the 'firehose' is that addrcasts are broadcasts and thereby may be coming from l2+
85792b00731ffa78…731ffa78…2022-09-08 03:14:26 <signpost> planning on turning this prototype into a little command line tool that can send/receive a given file to an IP:PORT
04d38bcaeb1b3d95…eb1b3d95…2022-09-08 03:23:44 <jonsykkel> re phfcode, not onlinecode, onlinecode - nice
b3eb49fef1cf5be4…a340a25e…2022-09-07 16:36:00 <phf> it being l2 kind of reduces the load, if you consider n to be a complete pest net, something being l2 implies subgraph size m, where m<n by definition, so inseead of it being n-1 packets, it's m-1
b6ebe0b404d38bca…04d38bca…2022-09-08 03:25:39 <jonsykkel> its a powerful beast to have in ur toolbox
11a5c2100ce8f58c…12d7cbc3…2022-09-06 18:49:48 <signpost> awt: https://aaronrogier.net/blog/2022/blogruptcy/ << sounds like he's gonna continue here?
d60eae70b3eb49fe…f1cf5be4…2022-09-07 16:37:10 <asciilifeform> well note that 'complete n' may vary by station depending on what bounce knob is set to
95976068b6ebe0b4…b6ebe0b4…2022-09-09 05:27:50 <jonsykkel> anyone preordered yet https://en.shiftall.net/products/mutalk
63a810ff95976068…95976068…2022-09-10 02:26:38 <jonsykkel> doesnt the future look bright PeterL? http://zzz.st/up/Gj7GGYnu/vr.mp4
ad2c7d3d39e953f0…b3eb49fe…2022-09-07 16:39:49 <phf> or rather x-missing nodes, n-total stations, m-size of subgraph, ≤x*(m-x) packets, where m=n in the worst case
55e6ed8c63a810ff…63a810ff…2022-09-10 02:36:44 <jonsykkel> lets hope things continue to become more unbearable then
16d90a63ad2c7d3d…39e953f0…2022-09-07 17:54:39 asciilifeform at various times tried to come up with somehow moar efficient mechanism than addrcast, but utterly failed
edf12e3f438435a7…85531162…2022-09-06 19:28:19 <billymg> good to see some signs of life from BingoBoingo
5908e28316d90a63…16d90a63…2022-09-07 17:56:21 <asciilifeform> given the prior where 'only peers have any biz knowing yer addr/port', it's afaik the only possible one
9488b6e1d823e946…d823e946…2022-09-12 23:06:43 <jonsykkel> uses old format id gues its intepreting part of nonce as adres
df8762085908e283…ad2c7d3d…2022-09-07 17:59:01 <phf> asciilifeform, why not make who you're looking for public?
570e06db34f180c6…bfd7bbc8…2022-09-06 19:38:55 <asciilifeform> lol if that's actually him, shame! for not paying bill! w/out even the excuse of watery grave, lol
91b878d1df876208…5908e283…2022-09-07 17:59:49 <asciilifeform> phf: cuz then you gotta make yer own addr/port public, neh
7d07fc6c570e06db…570e06db…2022-09-06 19:40:37 <asciilifeform> there'd better be a good story involving prisons, mental asylums, narrow escapes!11
0d3ba711e3980324…df876208…2022-09-07 18:00:54 <phf> why would you? e.g. station phf looking for station asciilieform, and here's a crypto payload that only asciilifeform will know
c4283e9a558ed912…66d38faf…2022-09-06 20:38:26 <signpost> asciilifeform: dipping on a bill among (former?) l1's pretty unimpressive.
80adad730d3ba711…e3980324…2022-09-07 18:01:35 <asciilifeform> peers are identified by keys tho (shared strictly b/w the 2 peers)
e14b0ba9c71d70a1…5aa6407f…2022-09-12 23:59:30 <signpost> deedbot seems to be doing fine on 9972 so I'll leave that station as is.
0d2a07ca39d69238…39d69238…2022-09-14 10:19:15 <jonsykkel> ok prod and adr cast puted http://zzz.st/progz/ achtung crtdaydreams
34f793d6c4283e9a…34f180c6…2022-09-06 20:43:52 <phf> back in the day of violent deplatformings in tmsr i thought that maybe some of the grievances are a result of weakness of wot
5253bb6480adad73…0d3ba711…2022-09-07 18:01:36 <phf> immediately that'll only solve 2x decode, but then peers can have some kind of coordination thing going
59b7633534f793d6…34f793d6…2022-09-06 20:45:19 <phf> like e.g. if bb didn't pay his bill, that doesn't necessarily need to translate into a condemnation and illegitimacy, but it should simply have a direct effect on wot raiting (or not, depending on individual). i might not care that bb didn't pay his bill, but ascii does, so take a point from rating or whatever and move on
9827083259b76335…59b76335…2022-09-06 20:51:51 <phf> which brings the question of pest based wot back up, ‘RATE BingoBoingo -1 didn't pay his bill’ or similar, where +n/-n is relative to previous rating, n is explicit rating overrides previous ratings and comments
2453d430d097e185…5253bb64…2022-09-07 18:02:23 <phf> anyone can also not-retransmit which is functionally equivalent to preventing decode based on target station's nick
9357f5e64524fb29…4524fb29…2022-09-14 14:01:31 <PeterL> this is weird, my bot is responding to pm's but not in here. the bot log says it is sending messages to blatta, but blatta is not giving me any error message or anything
0a71a2c434eec298…34eec298…2022-09-17 01:11:51 <jonsykkel> and u never know, guy took time to pinpoint bug in a software
5872132898270832…98270832…2022-09-06 20:54:21 <phf> but also asciilifeform being explicitly against in-bandisms, should something like this have it's own command? would be useful if it still showed up as a message, but was otherwise annotated at packet level. does it make sense to make explicit "rating command", or should it be some kind of "op command" that lets one send c
31ffb8a82453d430…2453d430…2022-09-07 18:03:09 <phf> lets say it's ascii looking for phf, i know i'm phf, so i decode. attacker changes that to dog, so i don't decode. but then attacker can also simply not send, with same result.
96c03b5d2453d430…d097e185…2022-09-07 18:03:10 <asciilifeform> phf: elaborate plz re 'coordination thing'
c112ffc40a71a2c4…17192a9d…2022-09-17 01:15:25 <phf> to quote copypaste, http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-13#1113556
faf2811358721328…58721328…2022-09-06 20:54:21 <phf> ommands in some kind of ll little language "rate x n comm" "unrate" "bid" "ask" etc
c4af2a9631ffb8a8…96c03b5d…2022-09-07 18:03:54 <asciilifeform> 'looking for phf' in this case means 'here's a phf-encoded addr/port for asciilifeform' tho
d34ed0e313f7b5ce…2134a757…2022-09-14 14:32:26 <scoopbot> PeterL: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m
e3d6cfc3c112ffc4…34dfdba2…2022-09-17 01:16:10 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: how new are you
9037c732d796c581…d5a1f729…2022-09-17 01:23:56 <phf> but then later http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-11#1366130 `copypaste: renegotiation of that contract would have to be with ads@8ch.net <Jim Watkins>, not me`
98fe5bf1d796c581…d796c581…2022-09-17 15:53:23 <jonsykkel> pestron inded comes with unpeer buton, dont se the big problem
5d29a5e4faf28113…c4283e9a…2022-09-06 21:06:21 signpost grows quite fond of this notion of a chain of structured social pronouncements.
7c14bac7c4af2a96…c4af2a96…2022-09-07 18:05:27 <asciilifeform> issue with coordination schemes is that not erry peer has biz being able to ask for addr/port of arbitrary peer of $station
5ff634b9e3d6cfc3…c112ffc4…2022-09-17 01:16:30 <phf> jonsykkel, that's copypaste ftr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrick_Brennan
36da2dae9037c732…9037c732…2022-09-17 01:29:55 <phf> hah, apparently the first time i brought up "uncatchable joe" was in conversation with him http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-13#1369390
1f6297c298fe5bf1…98fe5bf1…2022-09-17 21:50:46 <jonsykkel> my pestron dumbly rebroadcasts pakets to everyone incl where it came from
ad43b10f5d29a5e4…5d29a5e4…2022-09-06 21:07:26 <signpost> "required for dynamics of pest protocol itself" may be one way of dividing what becomes a message type.
983fabbc7c14bac7…31ffb8a8…2022-09-07 18:05:49 <phf> yes, but addr/port is payload, coordination can be done at the level "who are we looking for"
71b410cd134ca7b6…d34ed0e3…2022-09-14 14:34:09 <scoopbot> Added site http://www.loper-os.org/?feed=rss2, Loper OS, latest: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=4033
9104aa765ff634b9…5ff634b9…2022-09-17 01:22:35 <phf> mp at some point paid for ads on 8chan, in fact copypaste was on #b-a through the infamous 8chan takeover
1591637d36da2dae…34cb03de…2022-09-17 03:34:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012998 << indeed d00d in fact read the src, which imho puts'im into category at least 1 notch above 'hey tv'
6963a5b211f82ce8…11f82ce8…2022-09-17 15:54:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-17#1013018 << asciilifeform's pet is a fan of subj
396534bf1f6297c2…1f6297c2…2022-09-17 21:50:52 <jonsykkel> intended to fix in last release, simply forgoted
85a56e3cad43b10f…ad43b10f…2022-09-06 21:09:28 <signpost> wot may very well fit that definition at some point, perhaps involved in message propagation. say I issue a request for a given hash in the context of a filesharing system.
d5a1f7299104aa76…9104aa76…2022-09-17 01:23:28 <phf> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-14#1131821 `copypaste: !rate mircea_popescu 2 Graced 8chan with the presence of his ads
`
02e19a111591637d…e3d6cfc3…2022-09-17 03:35:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 21:13:27 jonsykkel: and u never know, guy took time to pinpoint bug in a software
941693266963a5b2…499ae2a3…2022-09-17 15:55:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-17 01:15:39 signpost: incidentally just got in from seeing the mountain goats, was great, if you're into that earnest folk music dork thing, which I am.
e1ba7eb6396534bf…396534bf…2022-09-17 21:57:43 <jonsykkel> planing to rewrite whole thing at som point fixing various dumbs etc, and meanwhile only keep old version acceptably operational
ba3cc21585a56e3c…85a56e3c…2022-09-06 21:10:33 <signpost> I may at some times only want to consider offers to transfer the file from immediate peers, other times from l2, etc
f95ed98342e5f99b…983fabbc…2022-09-07 18:06:18 <phf> if i get 30 packets from asciilifeform that are asking for phf, i can choose to retransmit only a subset of those. that would be one form of coordination
068af17392dcefab…71b410cd…2022-09-14 14:34:55 <scoopbot> Added site http://trinque.org/feed/, trinque, latest: http://trinque.org/2022/08/10/ocpy/
4eeb8da2fe6c882e…fe6c882e…2022-10-03 21:14:01 <shinohai> Hmmm, so far so good - need to dig up some other keys but everything seems back to normal.
588b031c02e19a11…02e19a11…2022-09-17 03:35:15 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: passwords may not contain capital letters
f95b83d394169326…bd00dee7…2022-09-17 21:15:03 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-11#1012698 << according to 9972 src sql key field must be unique in the keys table, so not sure how that could have happened unless in some prior versions that was not the case.
4edd1dc3e1ba7eb6…7ad9be49…2022-09-18 15:29:42 <awt> jonsykkel: Would it be possible to decrease the frequency of ignore messages smalpest sends out? Currently seeing 1 per second. I'm wondering if blatta may not be able to handle that rate currently due to the shitty pure python serpent implementation.
7e7b941aba3cc215…ba3cc215…2022-09-06 21:13:14 <signpost> "I don't care how much noise I get back; I need this file and am willing to eat a lot of failed hashes to find it" vs "I'm deploying a server that belongs to me with an OS image and I'm willing to speed things up by using ally boxes"
335f339df95ed983…42e5f99b…2022-09-07 18:06:43 <asciilifeform> so notion is to place the handle in addrcast outside the ciphered payload?
45400704588b031c…1591637d…2022-09-17 03:40:21 <asciilifeform> if that aint a suitable filter, then asciilifeform has nfi wat is ( e.g. gotta have original theorem? e.g. asciilifeform hasn't any. )
14d151f3f95b83d3…94169326…2022-09-17 21:15:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-11 22:27:09 asciilifeform[5]: awt: ideally thing oughta check for duplicate keys on startup (or prohibit'em entirely in sql schema, better)
efaf8da7bef6f47c…bef6f47c…2022-09-19 05:51:20 <jonsykkel> cool, i can drill my nats with random hamering
601896a67e7b941a…faf28113…2022-09-06 21:13:50 <phf> but also "rate ben and jerries seattle, wa -1 too urban" etc :>
954d30d1335f339d…f95ed983…2022-09-07 18:06:45 <phf> i might know where asciilifeform is in the above scenario, because he's in my l1, or i might just wait until he comes up to send him the last packet from a particular set
a6954491da236038…068af173…2022-09-14 14:36:08 <scoopbot> Added site http://thimbron.com/feed/, Thimbron, latest: http://thimbron.com/2022/03/9980-9978-presence-bug-fixes/
ef804b4c45400704…45400704…2022-09-17 03:44:37 <asciilifeform> near as asciilifeform can tell, d00d is no better or worse than other folx fucked by modernity and screwing w/ electronics for no particular logical reason.
b063785a601896a6…601896a6…2022-09-06 21:16:08 <phf> there's also that point about not being able to tie ratings to individuals, maybe there should be a restriction on the travel of these things? if i rate something, it can be an equivalent of direct message, or it propagates in a broadcast. different implications of both
d0e95c77a6954491…da236038…2022-09-14 14:44:14 <PeterL> this is the one that it missed: New post on Blog of Peter Lambert: [ http://peterl.xyz/2022/09/the-end/ ][ The End ]
f96692736f004878…6f004878…2022-10-03 21:45:45 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 14 minutes and 30 seconds
75193730ef804b4c…588b031c…2022-09-17 03:45:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:34:42 asciilifeform[4]: for folx who grasp that none of the buttons within their reach are connected to anyffin interesting, the options typically are vodka; nagant; 'displacements'; commercial worx (getmoar dough, buy fancier coffin!). asciilifeform in recent yrs partial to the last item
666416851ff70002…8b844528…2022-09-18 15:56:47 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 8m
a0d2c612b063785a…7d07fc6c…2022-09-06 21:20:36 <asciilifeform> phf: maybe not clear from asciilifeform's gripe, but not so much problem of 'grrr, bastard, not paid!' but that he's got a colo that asciilifeform has nfi wat-do with ( i.e. asciilifeform's fault, did not specify in pact 'if you dunpay for 6mo it gets sunk in ocean' )
cd1c5f8925e07753…25e07753…2022-09-07 18:08:56 <phf> but i'm also thinking out loud, because maybe there needs to be more policy around it, if one were to do it
94d74ae9d0e95c77…d0e95c77…2022-09-14 14:45:08 <PeterL> restarting the bot seems to have fixed the connection between the bot and the server
972a9f04f9669273…cc539f2b…2022-10-03 22:26:11 <signpost> shinohai: might want to lower your order buffer timeout knob for the bot
c238c79a75193730…ef804b4c…2022-09-17 03:46:06 <asciilifeform> ( and, w/out legs, suppose can't very well 'mosh pit' eh )
bd16cb462569b68a…a1cc7583…2022-09-19 10:49:00 <PeterL> I was just thinking, would it be helpful to have a message that you send to a peer that is essentially "what have you got for my AT?", and then you could use the response in your address cast to the cold peer?
2511079c2569b68a…2569b68a…2022-09-20 22:29:19 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: looks good, as far as i can tell u would expect that if both X+Y are live in the net, they will "always" be able to recv addrcasts from each other, and at aprox the same time. but if T_p is comfigured diferently they will start hammering out of sync (also wat happens after H has expired? give up or retrry la
38d00738a0d2c612…a0d2c612…2022-09-06 21:23:34 <asciilifeform> from asciilifeform's pov, 1 of the serious wins from wot-only biz is that it can be run informally, like tabs in old saloons, without having to consider the possibility of ending up used for interest-free (and never paid) loans by randos
3a8b221ccd1c5f89…cd1c5f89…2022-09-07 18:09:11 <phf> e.g. does l2 need to know who you're looking for, that's possibly a leak
5ee0c202972a9f04…b4cd1ab2…2022-10-03 22:32:09 <shinohai> signpost: o7 will check out the knobs, just finally got around to upgrading bot's station.
2b25e62dc238c79a…30dcaace…2022-09-17 05:12:32 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012988 << ah I like that song Excess by Perturbator. believe I've heard the other band but can't recall.
78fbd1943a8b221c…3a8b221c…2022-09-07 18:10:38 <phf> lets come back to this, i want to think about it some more, before i raise it as an explicit RFC :>
3867520f1531c275…94d74ae9…2022-09-14 15:30:13 <PeterL> asciilifeform: it looks like we have not been connected for a while, could you send me your address so I can update my at?
2123b5512b25e62d…75193730…2022-09-17 05:13:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 20:24:41 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012950 << it was HEALTH & PERTURBATOR summer tour. it was more of an opportunistic thing, just happened to be in the city when they played. i wouldn't say i don't like them, i had my period of angsty noise music, but they were a bit too young a
9d015b08fd0b0478…fd0b0478…2022-09-19 13:53:28 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-19#1113917 vex: nto sure if this is clear from context, but isn't deadname what the kids these days call their birth name after they decide to do a gender transition and start going by Katherine instead of Kenny?
99d43c27588c2042…588c2042…2022-09-20 22:29:27 <jonsykkel> thing 2: not 100%sure my internal model of nat is corectt but wouldnt the maffs depend hevily on exact nature of nat? at least my understanding of wat the problem looks something like this:
7545e3db60f58034…60f58034…2022-09-06 21:26:33 <asciilifeform> so concretely, asciilifeform not pissed 'b/c not paid!', but rather mystified that fella couldn't even be arsed to send a 'throw it in ocean plz kthx' pgpgram
307160b578fbd194…335f339d…2022-09-07 18:11:52 asciilifeform when orig wrote section, defaulted to 'no one but the target has any biz knowing anyffin', but agree that subj needs thought
5dd32cfe8e882681…972a9f04…2022-10-03 22:34:14 <signpost> shinohai: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009305
de1f94222123b551…2b25e62d…2022-09-17 05:13:41 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012995 << it's why I called out the gay flattery.
346609c29d015b08…e9c11116…2022-09-19 13:53:49 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-19 vex: copypate/ unaure if you're joking re deaname
54332a0199d43c27…99d43c27…2022-09-20 22:29:31 <jonsykkel> unpredictable (somewat) factors: nat maping table size (no idea, according to some random account, on order of 2^10-2^14 for typical consoomer router, unlikely to be significantly smaller than that 2^10 at least), timeout of the mapings (usually in the range of 30sec to couple minutes max from wat i can figure)
5543fe377545e3db…b063785a…2022-09-06 21:29:07 <phf> the win of old saloon is that lol where you going to go friend, your ranch and wife are here. i've made this point before, about fundamental failure of tmsr, but there was never closed economy. bb's business doesn't run on asciilifeform's iron, so his disappearance doesn't signify "probably had a heart attack on the way ho
c877ba74307160b5…78fbd194…2022-09-07 18:12:49 <phf> the policy might be something like "if you're increasing bounce you should zero out looking-for-station-nick field"
cd6143b60d9ccbc6…0d9ccbc6…2022-09-14 16:08:22 <asciilifeform> PeterL: still not seeing you in at ( last entry 31 jul )
cf4581ce5dd32cfe…f55c585c…2022-10-03 22:35:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 19:58:50 awt[billymg|signpost]: for bots, setting order_buffer_check_seconds and order_buffer_expiration_seconds to like 10 should speed things up quite a bit.
c9d54aef5dd32cfe…8e882681…2022-10-03 22:36:24 <shinohai> tyvm, I have so much log left to review ^_^
499ae2a3de1f9422…2123b551…2022-09-17 05:14:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 20:34:23 phf[awt]: so looking forward to pestnet being swamped with more of same. it's like you guys *enjoy* being insulted?
36eb30cb346609c2…b4538690…2022-09-19 14:04:04 <phf> PeterL, i think vex thought that copypaste decided to go full troon, but i think cp is just using the term ironically to refer to an old handle
49c5350154332a01…54332a01…2022-09-20 22:29:36 <jonsykkel> so if we assume "worst case", 30sec timeout, either the table size or the spam interval will be the limiting factor. u prolly dont want to be spamming faster than something like 0.1ms
7350f3cb5543fe37…5543fe37…2022-09-06 21:29:07 <phf> me", but simply "stopped visiting this particular reddit"
abb7d05bc877ba74…c877ba74…2022-09-07 18:13:18 <phf> so your l1 knows who you're looking for, but not l2
72ae3133cd6143b6…3867520f…2022-09-14 17:07:07 <PeterL> asciilifeform: sorry, stepped away for lunch. updated now
35a2184c499ae2a3…de1f9422…2022-09-17 05:14:57 <signpost> incidentally just got in from seeing the mountain goats, was great, if you're into that earnest folk music dork thing, which I am.
f45d4c5936eb30cb…0c17ef05…2022-09-19 14:53:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-19#1013203 << we've been doing this by hand on occasion but imho aint a good idea to mechanize it : in general, only a station's peer has any biz knowing its addr
eb29403449c53501…49c53501…2022-09-20 22:29:40 <jonsykkel> which means u will have a "moving window" (as rules time out and get replaced with new ones) of at most 30sec/0.1ms = 300k entries (would guess the tables tend to be smaller than this in practice). lets call window size "W" and spam interval "S"
1d9196997350f3cb…7545e3db…2022-09-06 21:30:02 <asciilifeform> phf: this is imho fundamentally inescapable, for sets of folx who aint actually sitting together in same mars dome
c4d3f54dabb7d05b…abb7d05b…2022-09-07 18:14:18 <phf> this will give you enought rope^Wknowledge to do better coordination, letting the subnet be pretty conservative about the address requests
3afd0b8d35a2184c…35a2184c…2022-09-17 05:16:31 <signpost> anyway I don't know copypaste, but I associate imageboards with low-t pedos. "change my mind"
fbf5f833f45d4c59…7a7e005d…2022-09-19 14:53:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-18 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's curr. at for phf
eb12f38df45d4c59…346609c2…2022-09-19 14:54:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 06:50:01 PeterL: I was just thinking, would it be helpful to have a message that you send to a peer that is essentially "what have you got for my AT?", and then you could use the response in your address cast to the cold peer?
f57892e4eb294034…eb294034…2022-09-20 22:29:45 <jonsykkel> in the case of the maximally annoying nats, each entry in table wil have src+dst ports that both have to match
75a0bd391d919699…1d919699…2022-09-06 21:31:06 <asciilifeform> tmsr had a reasonably good 'sim' going, of 'mars dome', but as these go unsurprisingly imploded in the usual way
5a016b10c4d3f54d…307160b5…2022-09-07 18:14:51 <asciilifeform> fwiw addrcast does already include ~originator~ handle outside of ciphered blob
5612a80e65c5e254…a7b83b88…2022-09-14 17:08:36 <asciilifeform> PeterL: are you using blatta? and if so which patch ver ?
9e286b783afd0b8d…c238c79a…2022-09-17 15:51:49 <asciilifeform> signpost: lol possib if fella manages to actually plug in, he can try 'change mind'
d39d76eaeb12f38d…f45d4c59…2022-09-19 14:56:11 <asciilifeform> fwiw phf proposed related scheme not long ago
9484e766f57892e4…f57892e4…2022-09-20 22:29:48 <jonsykkel> which means, after this window has been "saturated" (W*S sec has passed), u have W/(64512^2) = between 0.000025% (W=2^10) and 0.0072% (W=300k) chance of succes for every packet that actually arrives
c23e2e9c75a0bd39…75a0bd39…2022-09-06 21:32:39 <asciilifeform> this is why the folx ~seriously~ interested in 'closed economies' tend to build jonestowns, rather than fucking around with electronics
951f34759e286b78…9e286b78…2022-09-17 15:53:16 <asciilifeform> if his output turns out to consist of lolcats, would expect jonsykkel will unplug him
62bc2e30d39d76ea…eb12f38d…2022-09-19 14:56:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-07 14:02:14 phf[awt]: immediately that'll only solve 2x decode, but then peers can have some kind of coordination thing going
e14c30ca9484e766…9484e766…2022-09-20 22:29:52 <jonsykkel> this translates to chance of success (assuming 0%packet loss) within 60sec = 1-((1-W/(64512^2))^(2*(60/S))) = 25.6% (W=2^10) or ~100% (W=300k)
a07e59a1c23e2e9c…7350f3cb…2022-09-06 21:34:01 <phf> asciilifeform, that's the case i think where i agree with your grievances, mp could've tried it, instead of the whole faux lordship structure, attempted a retainer format, where one could, through work and collaboration come up from ranks
77ce1cb09901a8a4…5612a80e…2022-09-14 17:10:12 <asciilifeform> PeterL: try 9972, lesee if the addrcast thing worx
6ae2085062bc2e30…9d015b08…2022-09-19 14:56:32 <PeterL> asciilifeform: it would only be your peer that would get the addr, your warm peer is the one who already has it, and you would be giving it to your cold peer to update their AT, so what would be wrong with automating it?
f44d0fb0e14c30ca…e14c30ca…2022-09-20 22:29:55 <jonsykkel> both my nats are definitely of the annoying type, confirmed by experiments (can not send to nat assigned port from the same external host throguh a diffrent udpsocket). the litle data i colected seems to indicate my W might be somewhere in 3k-30k range
94893547a07e59a1…a07e59a1…2022-09-06 21:34:22 <phf> but started with actually paying people to do work, lol
ea27693c6b50b240…6b50b240…2022-09-07 18:16:31 <phf> "someone is looking for someone" "phf is lookibng for someone" vs "phf is looking for asciilifeform", that seems like the kind of knowledge that's can be practically applied at different bounce levels, and then scrubbed
fb18da2b6ae20850…6ae20850…2022-09-19 14:56:54 <PeterL> btw, asciilifeform, could I get your addr too, we seem to have lost our connection?
61138decf44d0fb0…f44d0fb0…2022-09-20 22:48:11 <jonsykkel> also, if retry later after H expired - how to sync?
7842952094893547…c23e2e9c…2022-09-06 21:34:36 <asciilifeform> mp at least explicitly admitted, 'i dun want the work of herding moos'
e024a24bea27693c…883634cf…2022-09-07 18:26:27 <asciilifeform> phf: what should l1 actually do with this info tho? intention of addrcast is to diffuse as widely as possible
fcabe3e04dd12b98…4dd12b98…2022-09-14 17:15:31 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-11#1012655 << awt: do I remember right that some versions of v have problems if the seal is .vpatch.sig instead of .vpatch.thimbronion.sig ?
b3cb81d661138dec…61138dec…2022-09-20 22:49:25 <jonsykkel> supose could have flag in the addres casts "i will start hammering T_p sec after sending this packet, if prods fail. plox to do same"
14deb8d078429520…94893547…2022-09-06 21:35:11 <phf> rather pay for camwhore girls than programmer boys, etc.
a9831779e024a24b…e024a24b…2022-09-07 18:27:22 <asciilifeform> so suppose l1 get to avoid expensively decoding the thing if they don't need it. but l2+ is stuck doing so anyway
b4f91331fcabe3e0…cfd4a1b7…2022-09-14 17:16:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-11 14:42:19 awt: 9972 sig: includes address cast support and a fix for the bug in which long messages are truncated instead of broken up into smaller messages.
a9864769289a9a36…62bc2e30…2022-09-19 14:58:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-14 11:42:14 asciilifeform[6]: PeterL: 100.15.116.69:1337
c1c19664b3cb81d6…b3cb81d6…2022-09-20 22:50:09 <jonsykkel> then flag would be set for initial addrcast and then every x min or watever
2119ddd114deb8d0…78429520…2022-09-06 21:36:07 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform's hypothesis remains 'd00d wasn't actually rich enuff -- considering the market depth of btc -- to build a rhodesia'
d738445ea9831779…a9831779…2022-09-07 18:28:33 <asciilifeform> (fwiw 'expensive' may be an exaggeration, decoding an addrcast simply costs what decoding 2 ordinary packets costs )
c2c1fe29b4f91331…fcabe3e0…2022-09-14 17:32:22 <PeterL> heh, looks like it worked to get us connected now
9c282afba9864769…289a9a36…2022-09-19 15:00:09 <asciilifeform> PeterL: possibly asciilifeform misread, and what you're asking for is simply the existing prod
9bbcd46bc1c19664…c1c19664…2022-09-20 23:02:01 <jonsykkel> actualy not sure why i thouhgt "always at arpox same time", thers no guarante of this at all. but i gues the H would be much longer than the adr cast interval
a0fbb1512119ddd1…2119ddd1…2022-09-06 21:36:27 <asciilifeform> so artfully danced around the issue with 'dun want'
5254ca65d738445e…ea27693c…2022-09-07 18:31:56 <phf> asciilifeform, well, nothing's really "expensive" since we're running this on machine from the future, but so far this is the first mechanism which is a free-for-all
45170eea9c282afb…9c282afb…2022-09-19 15:00:59 <asciilifeform> ( the response to your prod will contain your addr )
8b190c649bbcd46b…d1cdaf37…2022-09-20 23:03:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 18:30:50 jonsykkel: asciilifeform: looks good, as far as i can tell u would expect that if both X+Y are live in the net, they will "always" be able to recv addrcasts from each other, and at aprox the same time. but if T_p is comfigured diferently they will start hammering out of sync (also wat happens
e9f2cbdf9bbcd46b…9bbcd46b…2022-09-21 00:46:56 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013291 << but common case will prolly be that one guy restarts station rather than working peering going cold while both stations running
97bf94e8a0fbb151…a0fbb151…2022-09-06 21:38:10 <asciilifeform> there's a lengthy history allaround of folx pretending that the things they can't afford to do (e.g. build sane iron on which sane os is possible, to take unrelated example) 'don't need doing after all'
9b01fad45254ca65…5254ca65…2022-09-07 18:32:37 <phf> ignore is the other one, but it comes with an explicit policy of "station can decide what to do"
36918aca07d72392…07d72392…2022-09-14 17:42:45 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform nao with only 4 'cold' peers : crtdaydreams, shinohai, phf, bitbot )
060a203c45170eea…fb18da2b…2022-09-19 15:01:56 <PeterL> aha, I somehow missed that the prod contained the destination address in it
485974d18b190c64…1c9d8bde…2022-09-20 23:49:56 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: if operators mostly agree on a default T_c, then hammer will start at roughly same time.
bd005055e9f2cbdf…eb457244…2022-09-21 00:48:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 19:50:37 asciilifeform[5]: jonsykkel: if operators mostly agree on a default T_c, then hammer will start at roughly same time.
fa502768e9f2cbdf…e9f2cbdf…2022-09-21 00:48:55 <jonsykkel> so, if X restarts station, X and Y are out of sync re coldness of eachother
3900370f9b01fad4…9b01fad4…2022-09-07 18:39:29 <phf> x lookingfor y is the entirety of the fact, from which it's possible to reason. in the simplest case "i know where y is" or "i'm also looking for y". in which case you can reduce the incoming stream to "i'm looking for y" and then you keep a backlog of last packets of everyone who's also looking for y.
e19ace1736918aca…36918aca…2022-09-14 17:53:33 <asciilifeform> PeterL (PeterL) has left #pest << hmm didja crash?
b4d782ec060a203c…45170eea…2022-09-19 15:03:20 <asciilifeform> PeterL: it does, that is in fact half the point of it, to send a meaningful addrcast you need to know yer own reachable addr, and when yer behind a nat, you learn it via prod responses
edfd8c94485974d1…485974d1…2022-09-20 23:50:41 <asciilifeform> ( if not, then connection will take multiple hammerings, initiated by >1 addrcast )
8facbd44fa502768…fa502768…2022-09-21 00:50:54 <jonsykkel> perhaps can be fixed by simply responding immediately to a received addr cast IF the last one u sent to this peer was long ago
20612fa59fbe3348…9fbe3348…2022-09-06 21:39:15 <asciilifeform> mp's intergalactic empire was a type of masamune.
235564a63900370f…3900370f…2022-09-07 18:43:09 <phf> so for example in a complete graph of n nodes, where one of the nodes is disconnected, the "everyone's looking for missing node" is n messages every at some die off frequency
d920c772b4d782ec…060a203c…2022-09-19 15:03:56 <PeterL> awt: does the blatta need to keep repeating that it can't use mccrypt, couldn't that just be one error message at the beginning when it starts?
1a403ee08facbd44…8facbd44…2022-09-21 00:53:37 <jonsykkel> ttp://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013297 << one nat was 4g carriers, the other one some router
18a19efb20612fa5…7e7b941a…2022-09-06 21:39:31 <signpost> not sure it was that, or hell, correctly noticing when mandate of heaven passed.
c602bd22235564a6…235564a6…2022-09-07 18:44:23 <phf> where's in current approach it's at least n^2 (but not more, since that's going to get deduped on second bounce), and there's no way to coordinate the die off
01ad137bd920c772…d920c772…2022-09-19 15:04:27 <PeterL> asciilifeform: I updated the at, but it looks like we are still not connected?
171b7be11a403ee0…1a403ee0…2022-09-21 00:53:44 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013297 << one nat was 4g carriers, the other one some router
dcdeb44618a19efb…18a19efb…2022-09-06 21:39:52 <signpost> in either case there's use in a protocol where folks can talk about each other and announce shit they have to sell.
bb851d7ac602bd22…c602bd22…2022-09-07 18:45:36 <phf> re coordinating the die off, if you're already in stable state of looking for y, and there's an eager node that keeps sending "looking for y" messages, you can choose to just go "yeah yeah there's a bunch of people looking for him, settle down"
7c0dbaddc602bd22…d738445e…2022-09-07 18:45:38 <asciilifeform> phf: fwiw note that per spec, stations aint required to decode addrcasts ('may decode, if spare cycles')
53382b6c8b844528…f95b83d3…2022-09-18 16:47:57 <awt> Hey phf was testing from behind a firewall on another IP for a while this morning
3da839589f0957fd…9f0957fd…2022-09-14 18:04:02 asciilifeform might need to roll back to 9973 after all
0b54dfc501ad137b…b4d782ec…2022-09-19 15:05:30 <asciilifeform> PeterL: likely culprit; i'ma have to look when hands free
7a79d93ac47e5dea…c47e5dea…2022-09-20 23:52:49 <asciilifeform> afaik there are no NATs where it'll start (i.e. lets out udp at all) where hammer won't eventually penetrate.
981f4652171b7be1…171b7be1…2022-09-21 00:54:01 <jonsykkel> 4g one appeared entirely random every time from the full range
1d5b9a6a171b7be1…bd005055…2022-09-21 00:55:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 19:58:38 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013285 << any idea whether the ephemeral port #s predictable in these ? imho worth a look
5ff63beadcdeb446…20612fa5…2022-09-06 21:40:47 <asciilifeform> signpost: the difficulty, unsurprisingly, ultimately is ~never in 'how do we talk' but 'what's there to sell'
d3954967bb851d7a…7c0dbadd…2022-09-07 19:48:01 <asciilifeform> phf: 1 aspect not already mentioned is that decoding addrcast doesn't actually cost same as regular packet, because only need to try keys of 'cold' peers
7fea2d740b54dfc5…a9864769…2022-09-19 15:06:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 13:04:32 asciilifeform[5]: on local rack recently installed a new pfsense box and oughta take anuther look at the config, strongly suspects the fwd rule aint actually wurking
f51e3de87a79d93a…7a79d93a…2022-09-20 23:54:12 <asciilifeform> old-style (pre-microshit) skype used this algo.
42bf0461981f4652…981f4652…2022-09-21 00:54:42 <jonsykkel> the router seemed to assign ports clustered around the same place, but i dont know whether that was cuz src port was the same, or cuz mappings created around same time
3df448275ff63bea…5ff63bea…2022-09-06 21:41:13 <asciilifeform> if nobody 'sows or reaps', then wat-sell.
71ff35facddd7058…82809125…2022-09-18 16:58:25 <asciilifeform> ( if there were a working fork detector, oughta've gone off errywhere )
42457212d1c3975f…d1c3975f…2022-09-14 18:05:59 <awt> PeterL: yes that's correct. Dang, misnamed it again.
af518dd67fea2d74…01ad137b…2022-09-19 15:06:08 <PeterL> maybe try updating my at to 162.247.151.243:55565 if not currently same?
5881e9a3f51e3de8…f51e3de8…2022-09-20 23:57:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013285 << any idea whether the ephemeral port #s predictable in these ? imho worth a look
425566cc42bf0461…42bf0461…2022-09-21 00:54:57 <jonsykkel> ill try to figure out the logic, but presumably they all work diffrently
f694072d3df44827…14deb8d0…2022-09-06 21:41:15 <phf> asciilifeform, i can see that, i mean, it was kind of obvious with the harem, that "harem" was always hanbot, until it was also bimbo
9a84d32b89591dd6…66641685…2022-09-18 15:57:36 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 9m
547a290e71ff35fa…71ff35fa…2022-09-18 16:58:58 <asciilifeform> ( or at least errywhere from whose pov is hearsay )
c01262b75881e9a3…8b190c64…2022-09-20 23:58:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 18:31:42 jonsykkel: both my nats are definitely of the annoying type, confirmed by experiments (can not send to nat assigned port from the same external host throguh a diffrent udpsocket). the litle data i colected seems to indicate my W might be somewhere in 3k-30k range
eca41c2e425566cc…425566cc…2022-09-21 01:14:36 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013304 << or rather, their casts will be out of phase. worst case one guy starts hammering T_a before the other
066e10b54ed90109…4ed90109…2022-09-07 19:49:42 <asciilifeform> i.e. if you've no cold peers, you stop immediately once see that it's addrcast; if have 1 cold, you try only that key; 2 -- the 2 respective keys; etc
68b062bce87b9c8c…af518dd6…2022-09-19 15:07:38 <PeterL> heh, strange that I am not getting anything from you?
a4e9009bc01262b7…c01262b7…2022-09-20 23:58:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 18:34:53 asciilifeform[4]: suspects that the hammer time can be shortened considerably by preferentially exploring the space around the ephemeral ports seen in successfully-received prods from currently-warm peers -- many NATs issue ephemeral ports sequentially
c267b804eca41c2e…1d5b9a6a…2022-09-21 01:16:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 20:50:32 jonsykkel: so, if X restarts station, X and Y are out of sync re coldness of eachother
70f8f894eca41c2e…eca41c2e…2022-09-21 03:26:12 <jonsykkel> ugota update to 96K so it knows wat to do with adres cast
e74f19cc066e10b5…066e10b5…2022-09-07 19:51:00 asciilifeform not made this explicit in spec, but really oughta
95c3988933b18300…33b18300…2022-09-15 02:15:32 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-14#1012882 << my absence is unrelated to whatever recent blatta woes. i was traveling
39a8163668b062bc…e87b9c8c…2022-09-19 15:08:19 <asciilifeform> once we have the hammer, this headache oughta evaporate (along with the need to manually set fwd rules on nat)
ed83b2efa4e9009b…5881e9a3…2022-09-20 23:59:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-20#1013287 << not bad idea imho, but possibly not needed if general agreement re intervals
4402303d95c39889…b4f91331…2022-09-15 02:16:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-14 13:59:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: !q seen phf
6580cfe839a81636…7fea2d74…2022-09-19 15:09:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 20:03:44 asciilifeform[5]: orthogonally: thinking re when is the correct time, hypothetically, for station to hammer ports. imho oughta be when received addrcast, and knows that atm peer is live, but attempt to connect to the ephemeral
eb457244ed83b2ef…a4e9009b…2022-09-21 00:00:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-20 18:50:57 jonsykkel: supose could have flag in the addres casts "i will start hammering T_p sec after sending this packet, if prods fail. plox to do same"
7dbc31e32ee7c74b…2ee7c74b…2022-09-21 03:48:54 <jonsykkel> crtdaydreams: knob works, u might be seing rebroadcasts of incoming ACs
1cd3b5486580cfe8…fbf5f833…2022-09-19 15:08:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-18 asciilifeform: we'll need this, eventually, asciilifeform suspects, for 'final solution to nat'
8254d158e4515c23…ad400005…2022-09-06 21:42:26 <signpost> tmsr wanted to be the superstructure between sovereigns and no node present was.
49949ef92697bf4d…2697bf4d…2022-09-07 20:23:21 <phf> so far i've discovered that a complete graph pest net of 10 with 1 missing generates 648 packets if everyone node were to send out the request once
2b4146ec1cd3b548…39a81636…2022-09-19 15:11:15 <asciilifeform> ftr asciilifeform currently on 9973 (rolled back coupla d ago) so not has even addrcast
1e6846c68254d158…e4515c23…2022-09-06 21:43:27 asciilifeform was never fully onboard with 'btc is irresistible to sovereigns' notion, considering the latter's undying fondness for printing themselves palaces via debasement
dcc961f849949ef9…49949ef9…2022-09-07 20:24:56 <phf> a 15 node graph with 3 missing generates 4752 packets
294587416f6b7c05…6f6b7c05…2022-09-15 12:22:28 <whaack> they have segwit/lightning network setup in the farmers market as well as the more popular restaraunts there. i paid for pretty much all my food with 'bitcoin' while i was there
b0b3ae9829d2052d…29d2052d…2022-09-21 03:54:52 <jonsykkel> u see outgoing AC hash matches incoming one, aka rebroadcast
34ec2de829458741…29458741…2022-09-15 12:23:22 <whaack> i also found out about https://www.bitrefill.com/refill/?hl=en <-- lets you renew local costa rica phone number data with bitcoin payments. works well
e1920f1b07d8cc7e…2b4146ec…2022-09-19 16:55:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-19#1013200 << nifty! approx what asciilifeform expected.
891f2c14b0b3ae98…b0b3ae98…2022-09-21 03:55:43 <jonsykkel> exept those last4, which are from my statoin
eaddd0a8c62c14ab…2cb2d429…2022-09-06 21:44:36 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-01-26 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you don't want a strong currency while industrializing.
7b35a13ec8cd1643…c8cd1643…2022-09-07 20:27:56 <phf> that's my “send” http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=10e3
d1cdaf37e1920f1b…6580cfe8…2022-09-19 16:56:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 01:52:50 jonsykkel: cool, i can drill my nats with random hamering
55b79588891f2c14…891f2c14…2022-09-21 03:57:38 <jonsykkel> u also gota set igint 10000 or smth if wish to minimize bw
f2a764abeaddd0a8…c62c14ab…2022-09-06 21:46:30 signpost would be happy at this stage of life to disintermediate "I have unpasteurized dairy products for sale".
f47748977b35a13e…7b35a13e…2022-09-07 20:29:53 <phf> actually that's the simulation code in case anyone wants to check it for mistakes http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=nd1x
e4b73280d1cdaf37…e1920f1b…2022-09-19 16:58:25 <asciilifeform> awt: apropos: prolly oughta have control cmd '%ip' for a station behind nat to initially declare own external ip (found by operator outta band.) that way can actually revv up even if all peers in at behind nat
1f74085bf4774897…e74f19cc…2022-09-07 21:00:27 <asciilifeform> phf: possibly also 'can't graph theory' but e.g. 10 where 1 missing oughta result in each of the 9 present stations shooting precisely 8 each (1 getaddr, given as 1 missing peer, going to the 8 remaining -- not counting self)
40c0c13330feaa20…e6940bdd…2022-09-15 15:34:05 <PeterL> I've been pretty busy with day job, running kids around town in the evenings (all four of them are in sports)
1bf64a65e4b73280…e4b73280…2022-09-19 16:58:49 <asciilifeform> (so addrcast has sumthing to throw even on boot, before receives any prod)
cdf7488aed55e419…f694072d…2022-09-06 21:47:41 <phf> saw this recently: “behind every homesteading wife is an IT husband making six figures” :p
87a7e3151f74085b…1f74085b…2022-09-07 21:01:21 <asciilifeform> similarly for the others ( 15 w/ 3 missing -- each of the present 12 shoots 11 getaddrs in total , etc )
06c52f5e1bf64a65…1bf64a65…2022-09-19 17:00:27 <asciilifeform> ... moar cleanly, '%addr' . if w/out args, displays current ip:port , such as is getting fed to addrcast. if with arg, can manually set ip:port.
7b9b39bedb27b3ae…db27b3ae…2022-09-21 03:59:00 <jonsykkel> whihc also ddoses blatas runing on laptop aparently
d4bd65d206c52f5e…06c52f5e…2022-09-19 17:00:52 <asciilifeform> ( naturally, overridden by prod if/when actually received a prod )
fdb4be08b49c4335…b49c4335…2022-09-21 04:11:05 <jonsykkel> pest wont be particularily mobile plan frendly no mater wat u do, ignore pakets eat bw
2e17628ffb750003…f2a764ab…2022-09-06 21:48:31 <signpost> huehue, but wife-net is not to be underestimated!
9589ccd22e17628f…2e17628f…2022-09-06 21:48:56 <signpost> equip the babes, instinctive cult-propagators that they are
f0061bec56daa733…925f2388…2022-09-07 21:02:51 <phf> wait, let me fix some stuff in my code, possibly stupid
bf715ae24f56e283…85d2a346…2022-09-15 18:29:34 <signpost> whaack: isn't clear that waiting 10min for an in-person transation will ever work. something approximating lightning isn't even a bad idea, though there's no reason it had to rely upon segwit.
7e3235fe57620ef0…57620ef0…2022-09-19 17:04:33 <asciilifeform> moar on subj of nats -- for hypothetical fyootor pestron, may want upnp port opener. ( problem being , asciilifeform cannot test such, does not have any konsoomer nat boxen where it worx )
44914d242e8b9182…2e8b9182…2022-09-21 04:12:54 <jonsykkel> ddosresistant pestron must be able to shovel away packets at rate of 100k+/sec
7072db46f0061bec…56daa733…2022-09-07 21:04:25 <asciilifeform> phf: if the graph is fully connected, there'll be no propagation, as the thing'll get deduped
a921a3c244914d24…328269a1…2022-09-21 10:34:37 <PeterL> jonsykkel: do both peers have to do the port-hammering at the same time? won't it work if just one peer port-hammers, once the find a connection, won't it work both ways after that?
0160714044914d24…44914d24…2022-09-21 10:48:47 <jonsykkel> PeterL: itll "work", but u will make the target infinitesmall (W=1 in my calculations) and drilling will take >1000x longer
41f12e197072db46…7072db46…2022-09-07 21:05:01 <asciilifeform> (or rather, there'll be 1 bounce's worth)
18e5ace7b4b3384e…3fac2967…2022-09-15 18:35:38 <whaack> signpost: i don't think the issue is waiting 10 mins. i think the issue is the tx fee. i say this because i don't think merchants are going to lose too much money because of their clients double spending.
c95b5bec6d6ae514…6d6ae514…2022-09-19 17:05:29 <asciilifeform> ( upnp is a kludge sometimes found in konsoomer 'cable box' nats where a magick json string thrown at certain internal port on gateway results in a fwd rule )
51de643d01607140…01607140…2022-09-21 10:53:52 <jonsykkel> (spammer holds many ports open on his nat but only recvs packet with same src+dst port evry time so only 1 arow that can hit moving target. other guy recvs spam but holds only one port open so target is small)
6c5a379718e5ace7…b4b3384e…2022-09-15 18:36:16 signpost has some insight into e.g. credit card network fraud rates
717b568dc95b5bec…c95b5bec…2022-09-19 17:06:19 <asciilifeform> notoriously unreliable tho, nfi whether makes sense to spend cycles on subj.
d250031751de643d…a921a3c2…2022-09-21 10:55:44 <PeterL> but aren't both people trying to hit that 1 in 65000 or whatever port that is open? having both people do it will only speed it up 2x?
3baec13f51de643d…51de643d…2022-09-21 11:02:47 <jonsykkel> only in the case where nat is of the easy type, big problem is the fucked up nats that dont accept packets through that 1 port unless dst port AND src port match
0ffef3e36c5a3797…18e5ace7…2022-09-15 18:36:20 <whaack> i think the easy solution is just custodial bitcoin for low value transactions
cf84063b717b568d…717b568d…2022-09-19 17:08:18 <asciilifeform> ^ on further thought, prolly 100% waste of time given port hammerer, which oughta solve the problem conclusively
7207260f3baec13f…3baec13f…2022-09-21 11:07:16 <jonsykkel> these ports corespond to the ephemeral ports assigned by both nats, and so are both outside ur control (barring any posible predictability in the pattern of ports assigned)
0c582b67fd892c50…41f12e19…2022-09-07 21:06:59 asciilifeform also aint thinking straight, as the getaddrs are unique per shooter and will in fact propagate to all peers, within bounce limit
ef3bb3b30ffef3e3…6c5a3797…2022-09-15 18:36:36 <signpost> it's not negligible in that while it may be uncommon, the merchant that gets hit with the unexpected is fucked
7769f5b3cf84063b…cf84063b…2022-09-19 22:23:28 <asciilifeform> awt, phf, jonsykkel , et al: proposed 'hammer algo' :
304e86987207260f…7207260f…2022-09-21 11:19:16 <jonsykkel> the speedup is much greater than 2x cuz the act of u spamming is making the target biger for the other guy
ecfa7563ef3bb3b3…ef3bb3b3…2022-09-15 18:37:11 <signpost> yep, proper solution looks not unlike the traditional model: a network of custodians with more incentive to collaborate than defect.
40c44cff7769f5b3…7769f5b3…2022-09-19 22:23:38 <asciilifeform> 1. Station X and Y are peers; X is "cold" from Y's POV, and vice-versa, but each knows the other is live via connection to a common pestnet.
0f228610304e8698…d2500317…2022-09-21 13:27:36 <PeterL> maybe I am missing something ... if I spam your node, all my messages will be sent from the same port, so you still have only one target, right?
7304e1c54d383549…4d383549…2022-09-07 21:07:11 asciilifeform oughta come back to this thrd when awake
ead1e5e4ecfa7563…0ffef3e3…2022-09-15 18:37:29 <whaack> that's basically what is happening in CR's "Bitcoin Jungle"
331d01f240c44cff…40c44cff…2022-09-19 22:24:12 <asciilifeform> 2. T_c elapsed on X and Y, and the stations begin sending addrcasts to one another.
b8020cf40f228610…ed83b2ef…2022-09-21 17:24:29 <asciilifeform> PeterL: see the 'birthday paradox' discussion in the earlier link
8a758f9b4e995090…4e995090…2022-09-24 03:56:08 <jonsykkel> thanks m8 took one of them down recently cuz it was a bit too schizofrenic but it will be reviewed and published again soon
6c7c0abdead1e5e4…ecfa7563…2022-09-15 18:39:04 <signpost> re: fraud rates smaller merchants operate narrower margins so uncommon-but-costly events can still kill 'em off
769078d4331d01f2…331d01f2…2022-09-19 22:24:55 <asciilifeform> 3. X received an addrcast from Y, with ip_y:port_y. But port_y is blocked on Y's end by a 'symmetric' NAT. X will send prods to Y, but there is no answer. An interval T_p(X) elapses from the first attempt of X to provoke a response from Y without any such respo
20405d4eb8020cf4…c267b804…2022-09-21 17:25:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 18:38:39 asciilifeform[4]: see also: this likbez re subj.
650bdb2caa2012d7…fd892c50…2022-09-07 21:09:53 <phf> right, i'm not wrong, because in my simulation there's no red layer. so a station generations 1 unique getaddr, that is then sent to all peers
010113636c7c0abd…6c7c0abd…2022-09-15 18:41:51 <signpost> whaack: did you happen to ask anybody how they feel about accepting buttcorns vs usd or colones? just curious
ccc10d6220405d4e…b8020cf4…2022-09-21 17:26:09 <asciilifeform> PeterL: note also that if 'addrcast went, but peer not answers' does not tell X (or Y) if a) X is behind evil nat b) Y is behind evil nat c) both X and Y behind evil nat
5cfb9eec650bdb2c…650bdb2c…2022-09-07 21:19:28 <phf> ok, so on 10 1 i get (:TOTAL-SENT 648 :TOTAL-RECEIVED 648 :SAMPLE-SENT 72 :SAMPLE-RECEIVED 72)
777cbdde57017f2c…57017f2c…2022-09-19 22:25:16 <asciilifeform> 4. Y similarly received an addrcast from X, with ip_x:port_x, but similarly to above, T_p(Y) elapses without a response.
82f2f708ccc10d62…ccc10d62…2022-09-21 17:26:50 <asciilifeform> so per the offered scheme, X and Y 'assume worst' ( i.e. (c) )
072b0eee5cfb9eec…5cfb9eec…2022-09-07 21:20:14 <phf> current state of simulation code http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TzYt
024587b85031db4b…ead1e5e4…2022-09-15 18:43:56 <whaack> signpost: yes i spoke to 1 business owner. he said that the btc volume is low and so he just saves any btc profits in btc. he said if he ever needed to he would sell btc to cover costs, but for now he is stacking the volume he gets.
294303d4777cbdde…777cbdde…2022-09-19 22:25:55 <asciilifeform> 5. X begins to send prods to Y, choosing port_y (both in the transmitting socket and in the prod) randomly, in standard ephem. port range 1024–-65535. Hammering continues for an interval H(X), with delay between emitted packets H_d(X).
f1d599c582f2f708…20405d4e…2022-09-21 17:27:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 18:24:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: awt, phf, jonsykkel , et al: proposed 'hammer algo' :
f6874174072b0eee…072b0eee…2022-09-07 21:21:07 <phf> the propagation logic is in “meat”, please to rea
c479a471294303d4…294303d4…2022-09-19 22:26:13 <asciilifeform> 6. Meanwhile, Y similarly sends randomized prods to X, for an interval H(Y) with delays between packets H_d(Y).
5ea35316f1d599c5…82f2f708…2022-09-21 20:59:56 asciilifeform wonders whether hammer algo in fact reqs binding multiple unix sockets
a6b8588d47cb0ff6…024587b8…2022-09-15 18:44:23 <whaack> and from hearsay information i think that is what most are doing
6a39d06cc479a471…c479a471…2022-09-19 22:26:44 <asciilifeform> 7. Each shot by either side has a 1 in 64511 chance of 'getting lucky' if there is only one symmetric NAT standing between the peers; or a 1 / (64511^2) chance if ~both~ stations are trapped behind symmetric NATs.
e6845d2d5ea35316…135d3eb9…2022-09-21 21:26:46 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7QqSYBUhmY << wild to watch this ratchet click forward.
3bb51af03a09adb7…3a09adb7…2022-10-02 22:41:57 <jonsykkel> is being able to emerge xorg with 0problems on dulap the exeptional case?
fe57e5c3a6b8588d…a6b8588d…2022-09-15 18:44:58 <whaack> the cool thing is that the town is all interested in btc, and any time you pay someone with btc they have an immediate use for it
9556e4056a39d06c…6a39d06c…2022-09-19 22:26:55 <asciilifeform> 8. If either side receives a 'lucky' prod from the other, it immediately answers, and a connection is established.
46bd7d14d93289fe…527ae946…2022-09-24 17:12:42 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-24#1013463 << good fucking christ.
3e5732f13bb51af0…3bb51af0…2022-10-02 23:01:38 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-30#1013554 << a++ giraffics, much harvard very h-index
da3ee6f2fe57e5c3…47cb0ff6…2022-09-15 18:48:53 <signpost> tbh if one layers a wot atop, why not accept zero-conf txns of low sum.
f191707646bd7d14…293a945f…2022-09-24 17:13:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-24 00:04:43 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://zzz.st/books/10thplace lmfao
46abdac93e5732f1…4c1a7c20…2022-10-02 23:03:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 22:20:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: apropos of nuffin -- baking illustrations for rewritten pest spec
9b3279dbda3ee6f2…da3ee6f2…2022-09-15 18:49:45 signpost actually wrote a wot for ethereum, have not done anything with it, just farted it out as an experiment.
4b77af189b3279db…9b3279db…2022-09-15 18:50:07 <signpost> for bitcoin one'd probably put the reputation layer in oh, say pest!
ce26c371374b7e2b…374b7e2b…2022-09-21 21:46:28 <signpost> at any rate, what do I know about Putin, but he sounds sincere there.
267af994b9870c6c…b9870c6c…2022-10-02 23:25:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013607 << wasn't xorg per se, but the gpuism cruft ( 'mesa' + the board-specific liquishit for same )
fb398e82199fe41b…267af994…2022-10-03 00:01:30 <asciilifeform> fwiw this method worx (but not if the '\newcommand' is given where 'foo' and 'bar'...) . suffices for asciilifeform's purposes
1d7d33fd199fe41b…199fe41b…2022-10-04 19:50:51 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/up/I78PRY3h/ ur mesage as i se it contains 0x0a
222017c04b77af18…4f56e283…2022-09-15 19:11:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-15#1012915 << asciilifeform's algo fwiw.
cb8a2110ba4b5aea…ba4b5aea…2022-09-19 22:34:13 asciilifeform suspects that the hammer time can be shortened considerably by preferentially exploring the space around the ephemeral ports seen in successfully-received prods from currently-warm peers -- many NATs issue ephemeral ports sequentially
01aa65e2ce26c371…ce26c371…2022-09-21 21:46:41 <signpost> and he sounds like someone who doesn't like what he's going to be forced to do.
1152d590267af994…55deba11…2022-10-02 23:25:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-07 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063729 << i got 1 of those amd cad card things that doesn't 3d ~at all. but worx with 100% blobless driver, and pushes 3 x '4k', which was all i needed.
5d4aa28d267af994…46abdac9…2022-10-02 23:26:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 18:43:43 jonsykkel: is being able to emerge xorg with 0problems on dulap the exeptional case?
a808abf6fb398e82…fb398e82…2022-10-03 00:14:02 <asciilifeform> the complete horrid kludge ftr; worx w/ ye olde pdftex if 'OT2' encoding installed.
fa9d07d1222017c0…4402303d…2022-09-15 19:12:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-15 14:44:35 whaack[jonsykkel|awt|shinohai]: signpost: yes i spoke to 1 business owner. he said that the btc volume is low and so he just saves any btc profits in btc. he said if he ever needed to he would sell btc to cover costs, but for now he is stacking the volume he gets.
3045d02bcb8a2110…cb8a2110…2022-09-19 22:36:12 <asciilifeform> ... in the simplest variant, start with highest_known_ephemeral--65535.
24b0af6401aa65e2…5ea35316…2022-09-21 22:40:08 <asciilifeform> lol not censored yet (normally these can only be seen on 'rutube' etc naodays)
1d51c0d7fa9d07d1…fa9d07d1…2022-09-15 19:12:22 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-15 asciilifeform: recommends his strategy -- of conducting biz in btc strictly to fill a hodl -- to others, but not under illusion that it is generally applicable
b132b27924b0af64…24b0af64…2022-09-21 22:43:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-21#1013362 << they're perma-stuck in this for objective reasons
be157aab115fcaf8…bda12227…2022-10-03 00:50:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013598 << my intuition for this approach is that it wouldn't work, because tex is not a real programming language, and latex is its ungodly spawn. if i were to write from scratch i'd go straight for your second solution, with ifthenelse
28d11fd560ea1131…60ea1131…2022-10-04 19:55:50 <phf> well i picked up #x0a from slopy copy/paste, but we kind of know that blatta is funny about newlines, because of the whole irc compat
63e122998d0f11e6…8d0f11e6…2022-10-04 19:58:20 <jonsykkel> u mean spliting the mesage into seprate irc commands
9bdcfe398d0f11e6…28d11fd5…2022-10-04 19:58:29 <phf> that's not true, one could figure out reasonable semantics for the boundary between on the wire pest, and the payload presentation through irc interface
e7d3035f1d51c0d7…222017c0…2022-09-15 19:16:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-15#1012908 << considering that there aint such a thing as a portable trb node, one's stuck using ~some~ ersatz or anuther, aha
f57976d8b132b279…9126c881…2022-09-21 22:43:31 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-11 asciilifeform: mangol: in re the bigger picture. and not simply 'east expansion', but that reich rather obv. cannot survive 1) without continuing to get ru fuels & other minerals for ~phree 2) the continued existence of [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083094][an alt-civi
5c049653b132b279…f1d599c5…2022-09-21 22:44:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-21 17:44:44 awt: WWI level idiocy on the NATO front
b89f4334be157aab…5d4aa28d…2022-10-03 00:51:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 17:51:16 asciilifeform[5]: phf: re: heveaism in particular -- does this work as described in manual on your box ?
41ecd645e7d3035f…1d51c0d7…2022-09-15 19:17:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-15 14:36:59 whaack[jonsykkel|awt]: i think the easy solution is just custodial bitcoin for low value transactions
f2e1111ae02e0321…e02e0321…2022-09-19 23:53:28 asciilifeform realized obv. lulgaffe in hammer algo -- highest_known_ephemeral needed is of the ~counterparty~, not yer own. i.e. would have to be slipped into addrcast, to be of use.
24f6fe785c049653…ffb850ec…2022-09-21 23:17:33 <awt> Can't they? Build out nuclear in europe, remove restrictions on oil/gas drilling in USA/Canada.
45c44b24b89f4334…115fcaf8…2022-10-03 00:50:54 <asciilifeform> phf: yea apparently \newcommand is prohibited in conditional blocks (and this doc'd nowhere)
17a578cb856a8095…856a8095…2022-10-04 20:02:42 <jonsykkel> could, but stamps are second resolution so u will then have messages incorectly glued all the time
b734782041ecd645…30feaa20…2022-09-15 23:54:32 awt is currently "drowning in liquishit" though thankfully at least no javascript.
03e47f7724f6fe78…01aa65e2…2022-09-21 23:53:08 <signpost> awt: the "can't" may be all in their heads, but that doesn't make it trivial.
1d5f998c45c44b24…be157aab…2022-10-03 00:58:15 <phf> it's more of a consequence of the way latex does things. those begin\end blocks are "special" in the sense of "retarded", and i wouldn't really put anything in them beyond rendering and rendering related commands
f877121ea7d3543f…a7d3543f…2022-10-04 20:00:08 <phf> it will kind of break the logs, because logs are talking irc, rather then directly to database, so you'll have separate messages for non-separate messages, but honestly i don't see any reason to be particularly pedantic about this
356389a717a578cb…17a578cb…2022-10-04 20:03:49 <jonsykkel> need "more fragments" bit to solve it properly
eaaa478bb7347820…b7347820…2022-09-16 03:41:12 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-15#1113816 << works as intended, huh
ff04b1d603e47f77…b132b279…2022-09-22 00:22:21 <asciilifeform> 'invent parachute on yer way down from empire state building'(tm)
8c9ddf2d1d5f998c…1d5f998c…2022-10-03 00:58:53 <phf> i don't really know latex, but if you know tex and try and do things the tex way it's pretty much guaranteed to go all kinds of wonky in a latex document
2788e6b6f877121e…f877121e…2022-10-04 20:01:33 <phf> i'm too lazy to look at the spec but pest special-cases messages that don't fit into a single pest packet, by splitting them into multiple packets. presumalby on render one could recognize that the message is the same (identical timestamp, direct selfchain) and merge them together
7b847a44356389a7…2788e6b6…2022-10-04 20:05:46 <phf> jonsykkel, i think you'll very rarely have messages "incorrectly" glued, since you're matching by self-chain and timestamp being identical
4778809f356389a7…356389a7…2022-10-04 20:05:52 <jonsykkel> well selfchain always gona match up if u send from same station, and then u just need 2 quick ones wihtin 1sec
eb5473abeaaa478b…41ecd645…2022-09-16 03:41:57 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-15 copypaste: if no one wants to peer w/me that's fine lol enjoy your secret club i guess, the lack of a default way to peer probably prevents a lot of spam but also makes ur network dead
1b8a7603c53f09a5…1cd3b548…2022-09-20 15:53:45 <dulapbot> busybot last seen here on 2021-11-18 09:41:04: PeterL: who is your daddy and what does he do?
af77e593408c8791…9feaa16f…2022-09-22 17:38:42 <signpost> awt: I'm not saying it was a weapon to maim men of military age. I'm just saying that's who it ended up harming the most. :p
641af3f2ff04b1d6…24f6fe78…2022-09-22 00:41:10 <awt> lol invent what? nuclear power? oil/gas extraction?
b6bf7e044778809f…4778809f…2022-10-04 20:08:07 <jonsykkel> sure, but i think "rarely" will be like 5times in a active day
53c38f5deb5473ab…eaaa478b…2022-09-16 03:45:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-10#1012640 << i feel like it's traveling around, i went to concert on monday, ended up tearing up my throat from screaming in mosh pit, but now i feel like it slowly transitioned into some kind of mild flu
ab2c5e2b1b8a7603…c53f09a5…2022-09-20 15:54:24 <asciilifeform> hrm nm mine hasn't the foo[bar] remover
8e79345aaf77e593…f36b8312…2022-09-22 17:45:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-22#1013402 << lol how long were these in limbo?!
f06c4369641af3f2…ff04b1d6…2022-09-22 00:43:58 <asciilifeform> awt: invent means to make'em happen w/out 3-decade piles of forms in triplicate
0dd50eb2c3fc3236…c3fc3236…2022-10-04 20:07:28 <phf> i'm arguing the "all the time" vs "rarely", rather than whether it can happen at all
59e571ee53c38f5d…eb5473ab…2022-09-16 03:46:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-10 13:05:43 billymg: finally caught the vid. nothing terrible but slept like shit last night
6d91d8db8e79345a…34ca93d8…2022-09-22 17:45:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-22 12:43:10 busybot[shinohai]: Current BTC price in USD: $18761.42
87980e26f06c4369…641af3f2…2022-09-22 00:44:41 <awt> in that respect signpost is right, all in their heads
8cc5d1db2d57cf11…2d57cf11…2022-10-03 01:00:04 asciilifeform lulzily, had been latexing on/off for ~20y and still feels rather clueless justabout errytime, 'wtf, this oughta work'
cc0a6a1d59e571ee…53c38f5d…2022-09-16 03:46:36 <phf> horse girl saw me and said "you got the vid huh, several people got knocked out this week"
9126c881eaaff791…1b8a7603…2022-09-20 15:54:31 <dulapbot> busybot[asciilifeform] last seen here on 2022-09-13 11:52:37: Current BTC price in USD: $20835.34
6f0f1c146d91d8db…8e79345a…2022-09-22 17:52:21 <asciilifeform> signpost: afaik the ~only folx for whom covidiocy was more than annoyance were pensioner-age
354088438cc5d1db…8cc5d1db…2022-10-03 01:01:17 <asciilifeform> is indeed a 'from hell' atrocity, 'which errybody stuck with cuz 0 substitutes'(tm)
341883c28a847821…78bfc029…2022-10-04 20:20:31 <phf> well, according to my tests you're not in danger, the main culprit is deedbot
9975d3a28a847821…8a847821…2022-10-04 20:28:30 <jonsykkel> posible that irc client flood protection will save ppl
666c88cacc0a6a1d…cc0a6a1d…2022-09-16 03:49:21 <phf> awt and company, can someone make an executive summary of the recent blatta woes? is it related to the address algorithm? in any case i'm going to come back to the subject in the next few days. did the recent discussions potentially change the details of implementation, asciilifeform?
d532db429126c881…eaaff791…2022-09-20 18:15:31 asciilifeform apropos of nuffin, as of today 30yrs of sitting in usa, lol
4580273f6f0f1c14…6f0f1c14…2022-09-22 17:54:19 <asciilifeform> ( doesn't, incidentally, refute 'bioweapon' legend -- in actual practice , biowar agents lose their 'bite' very quickly )
8cedce8735408843…51ba68d6…2022-10-03 01:03:30 <phf> i'm particularly surprised that not a single project outside of core knuth's tex even attempted to use cweb or whatever. i mean, you'd think with a fanclub of that size, the inner tex sanctum would at least larp a project or two. nope. zero.
b42c5271341883c2…341883c2…2022-10-04 20:24:03 <phf> i don't have much packet backlog, september 30th is the first packet, but over that time if one were to merge packets like that, would get http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=MhQR
3bcd4ceb9975d3a2…1afb8d04…2022-10-04 20:31:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013815 << per current (well, not for much longer..) draft :
dd145f7f9975d3a2…9975d3a2…2022-10-04 20:40:14 <jonsykkel> maybe not such a problem oustide of paste 10lines into chat = have to wait 10sec
31d7d836666c88ca…40c0c133…2022-09-16 10:50:55 <PeterL> awt: didn't want you to miss http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-13#1113762 this bug report
ae6ef7cd4580273f…f57976d8…2022-09-22 17:54:19 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-19 asciilifeform: punkman: there are several tricky bits in bioweapon . microbes/virii expensive to culture, to evaluate, to package in deployable format. and once 'fired', rapidly loses virulence (via neg. selection pressure; and, if you had made artificial changes to the organism, via other, less-
e2e5d26497fc78c5…03e47f77…2022-09-22 00:50:20 <signpost> what I see is suicidality. if a person can be, why not the aggregate of persons?
1afb8d04b42c5271…5ffc0d27…2022-10-04 20:29:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013802 << unsurprising, but raises the q re outta what he bakes the very clean graphs etc (raw tex shat outta a pascal proggy?! or wat)
c705c9eb3bcd4ceb…3bcd4ceb…2022-10-04 20:31:14 <asciilifeform> 'Given that a Pest Message is able to carry no more than 324 bytes of Payload, a single IRC command received from the console may require a station to originate two text Messages. These must be appropriately chained, and their Timestamps must be equal. Receivers will place these Messages into the correct order using their
57d7872e3bcd4ceb…601fa1d3…2022-10-04 20:32:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 16:02:37 phf[awt]: i'm too lazy to look at the spec but pest special-cases messages that don't fit into a single pest packet, by splitting them into multiple packets. presumalby on render one could recognize that the message is the same (identical timestamp, direct selfchain) and merge them together
2046706add145f7f…4bfe5861…2022-10-04 20:41:28 <phf> well, no, "paste 10 lines" should exactly be glued!
7abe187131d7d836…59e571ee…2022-09-16 10:52:24 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: passwords may not contain capital letters
f196b899ae6ef7cd…fa85cdb7…2022-09-22 18:04:22 <awt> signpost: hadn't considered that. makes sense. Took me out of the fight for a month.
601fa1d31afb8d04…a3939a66…2022-10-04 20:30:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 15:33:04 phf[awt]: to the previous thread http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013744 volume 4 pre-fascicle 7a https://cs.stanford.edu/~knuth/fasc7a.ps.gz says, unsurprisingly, that it's from fasc7a.dvi, TeX output 2022.08.01:1918
a0bc834157d7872e…c705c9eb…2022-10-04 20:31:53 <asciilifeform> ... their SelfChain and NetChain values.' grr
1b82d0d9f196b899…f196b899…2022-09-22 18:06:47 <awt> Although for US military you'd want to target fat black lesbians
1947e3ad7436dd8e…8cedce87…2022-10-03 01:06:42 <phf> it's the C version of knuth's WEB toolkit, for literate programming
f8d022418e90f516…8e90f516…2022-09-16 14:17:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-15#1012933 << awt's 9972 has working addrcast (per original, 'loud' algo) but also apparent bug where gets into prod loop
2a871bf4328269a1…a89ce70d…2022-09-20 20:36:09 <awt> PeterL: asciilifeform went through USG intake process 30 years ago today, it seems.
d6e34e12d5884212…4580273f…2022-09-22 18:55:34 <asciilifeform> hm how the fuck is that possible? (afaik there aint a buffer with timeout of days -- the bot gotta be running a blatta w/out prod , and ended up getdata'ing for it? )
3cc2d8b7c6d8a47d…a0bc8341…2022-10-04 20:33:11 asciilifeform did not bother to point out that only msgs from given $handle with == times & consec. chains oughta be glued, but hopes is obv
fd537cf7c24e2496…3a77c8c1…2022-10-04 20:43:05 <asciilifeform> eventually 100% of ircism , theoretically, goesaway. (liekly 1st for folx willing to live in emacs / shell)
7baa8a5ff8d02241…7abe1871…2022-09-16 14:18:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-15 23:50:03 phf[awt]: awt and company, can someone make an executive summary of the recent blatta woes? is it related to the address algorithm? in any case i'm going to come back to the subject in the next few days. did the recent discussions potentially change the details of implementation, asciilifeform
e7da011d2a871bf4…2a871bf4…2022-09-20 20:37:01 <awt> https://www.quora.com/What-is-intake-like-in-prison
29043091d6e34e12…d6e34e12…2022-09-22 18:58:33 <asciilifeform> ( 'it' being the orig. command , naturally )
c86874cc91928b0c…1947e3ad…2022-10-03 01:07:50 <phf> knuth regularly puts out little hacks that he wrote in cweb, while exploring some idea or other
9985c7ec3cc2d8b7…3cc2d8b7…2022-10-04 20:33:43 asciilifeform erring on the side of pedanticism in rewritten spec, can always 'diet' it down later
d562bad0fd537cf7…fd537cf7…2022-10-04 20:44:04 asciilifeform in new spec, moved all ircism to an annex
5622c7ccb17ca1a3…d562bad0…2022-10-04 20:44:49 <asciilifeform> old one is imho horrid mess from this pov, with chaotic mix of front and rear end
b4d1d651b17ca1a3…b17ca1a3…2022-10-04 20:45:15 <jonsykkel> thought about even spliting pestron into pure item with no irc/tcp, with "rpc" inteface (but bidirectional) then have temporary rpc<->irc device as separte item
c7df31709985c7ec…c6d8a47d…2022-10-04 20:34:19 <phf> asciilifeform, well, jonsykkel points out that anything that spits out messages under 1s< rate will get magically glued. i suspect that it will mostly happen in bot situations and ocassional "lol spam"
9751b8f85622c7cc…2046706a…2022-10-04 20:45:21 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png
72017b12b4d1d651…7732618f…2022-10-04 20:46:46 <asciilifeform> phf: nifty, loox like has editbox (& presumably cleanly pasteable-from log)
4ddd00444bf525dd…7baa8a5f…2022-09-16 14:21:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-11 17:29:49 signpost: awt: fired it up, getting a spray of error log messages regarding a peer with duplicate address or handle id.
987b3ebacb7778ea…cb7778ea…2022-10-03 01:08:19 <phf> https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/random-dfs-a.w november 2021
7732618f9751b8f8…5622c7cc…2022-10-04 20:45:53 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: asciilifeform likes frontends where can cleanly copypaste text a la xchat
e74bfa7a8013d54d…72017b12…2022-10-04 20:47:16 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: from shell / curses proggy, afaik lethal pain
65f02f484ddd0044…4ddd0044…2022-09-16 14:21:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-12 16:12:39 awt: asciilifeform: explained upstack that get_keyed_peers func needs more work
c6f7537e00a1ea36…af77e593…2022-09-22 19:56:54 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-22#1013407 << has seemed to my admittedly amateur eye that heart issues like myocarditis have been happening to both the vaccinated and folks who got earlier variants of covid.
efcb223a987b3eba…987b3eba…2022-10-03 01:09:34 <phf> but my question is why are even old school tex companion programs, like dvi2ps, not written in cweb
320d83d65c5785c2…c7df3170…2022-10-04 20:35:31 <phf> per my test above the only "accidental" one is deedbot, and i suspect the way it happend is that two messages that were at distance arrived and sat in the same buffer,then hit the automatic machinery at the same time, so deedbot produced answers in a tight loop, that is in the same second
2cb99f7a7732618f…1049b5e8…2022-10-04 20:45:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-22 21:01:56 asciilifeform: tk is rather barbaric, but beats the shit outta raw console and its spurious linebreaks in pastes etc
2bd41607e74bfa7a…e74bfa7a…2022-10-04 20:47:32 asciilifeform not seen any 100% working examples at all
3dc8e92ac6f7537e…6d91d8db…2022-09-22 19:57:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-22 13:53:12 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: signpost: afaik the ~only folx for whom covidiocy was more than annoyance were pensioner-age
1b5cfd84efcb223a…efcb223a…2022-10-03 01:11:26 <phf> and the corresponding pdf output http://glyf.org/tmp/random-dfs-a.pdf
4bfe5861320d83d6…320d83d6…2022-10-04 20:36:39 <phf> the main issue with "gluing" is whether or not there should be a newline in between glued lines. otherwise the result is visually etc. identical to individual messages
415ca9eb2bd41607…2bd41607…2022-10-04 20:47:59 <asciilifeform> (and if can't do it w/ middleclick, it aint 'working example' per asciilifeform's lights)
b12bdcbebd00dee7…4b77af18…2022-09-16 17:45:52 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-13#1113701 << who is this crassly flattering dork anyway
676d93eb3dc8e92a…c6f7537e…2022-09-22 19:58:35 <signpost> and yep, makes sense that selection pressure would weaken any such bio-wunderwaffe quickly
a53962661b5cfd84…1b5cfd84…2022-10-03 01:12:25 <phf> but of course you can't use hevea (out of the box) to render random-dfs-a.tex as html, because it's not latex, but rather tex
c389003f4bfe5861…5c5785c2…2022-10-04 20:38:37 <asciilifeform> indeed prolly oughta've specced 'piss <= 1/s unless you want'em glued'
19d74c3a415ca9eb…9751b8f8…2022-10-04 20:48:08 <phf> yeah, i haven't really tested obnoxious pastes, but should also work
8af29728b12bdcbe…65f02f48…2022-09-16 17:46:33 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: i can see why mp was threatened by you lol
57869b2b676d93eb…f07df47d…2022-09-22 21:01:44 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-22#1013417 << i once or twice in the past week noticed a brief sharp pain in left side of chest during deep inhalations
bc1fb5acc389003f…c389003f…2022-10-04 20:39:39 <asciilifeform> hypothetically could've 'glue this' flag etc., but protocol is gnarly enuff w/out such things imho
99e6d7d619d74c3a…19d74c3a…2022-10-04 20:48:10 <phf> Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed. A yellow dressinggown, ungirdled, was sustained gently behind him on the mild morning air. He held the bowl aloft and intoned:
—Introibo ad altare Dei.
Halted, he peered down the dark winding stairs a
af3012b157869b2b…3dc8e92a…2022-09-22 20:58:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-22 15:57:40 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-22#1013407 << has seemed to my admittedly amateur eye that heart issues like myocarditis have been happening to both the vaccinated and folks who got earlier variants of covid.
5945e7fd16487cf2…16487cf2…2022-10-03 01:43:23 asciilifeform at one pt took a look at subj when in a fever dream of 'wainot deadtree ffa' but not got far
3c2eb42699e6d7d6…99e6d7d6…2022-10-04 20:48:10 <phf> nd called out coarsely:
—Come up, Kinch! Come up, you fearful jesuit!
Solemnly he came forward and mounted the round gunrest. He faced about and blessed gravely thrice the tower, the surrounding land and the awaking mountains. Then, catching sight of Stephen Dedalus, he bent towards him and made rapid crosses in the air,
a051f73edf5407de…44d97e78…2022-10-05 23:09:37 <phf> asciilifeform, hitler peer is not going to work, because of where it's slicing in. it's simply adding extra content into a stream back to the client, so the "command not found" is being reported by your irc client
4a9e2c04501968b2…501968b2…2022-09-16 17:50:59 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-15#1113816 << onoes.
aead00a7af3012b1…00a1ea36…2022-09-22 21:23:39 <asciilifeform> signpost: admittedly no one can immed. dismiss the 'slow bomb' hypothesis
618417545945e7fd…a5396266…2022-10-03 01:44:16 <phf> i still sometimes dream of "1000 year documents" or someshit
d3c901a83c2eb426…3c2eb426…2022-10-04 20:48:10 <phf> gurgling in his throat and shaking his head. Stephen Dedalus, displeased and sleepy, leaned his arms on the top of the staircase and looked coldly at the shaking gurgling face that blessed him, equine in its length, and at the light untonsured hair, grained and hued like pale oak.
c672823aa051f73e…a051f73e…2022-10-05 23:11:45 <phf> so you can presumably do things like,
:god QUIT :Quit: BYE
d583aa684a9e2c04…8af29728…2022-09-16 17:51:43 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-15 copypaste: if no one wants to peer w/me that's fine lol enjoy your secret club i guess, the lack of a default way to peer probably prevents a lot of spam but also makes ur network dead
527ae946aead00a7…676d93eb…2022-09-22 21:27:29 <signpost> that's how I like my wild speculations... unfalsifiable!
75926b9661841754…61841754…2022-10-03 01:44:46 <phf> but if you've ever tried building minimal tex, realize very fast that there's no such thing as minimal tex
a140e600c672823a…c672823a…2022-10-05 23:12:11 <phf> which on your termianl should show up as god quitting with the message "BYE"
b9c31dcfc672823a…995cf311…2022-10-05 23:16:54 <shinohai> Now I see you jonsykkel but missed http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013970 and the msg immediately following it (%peer hitler)
bad4581dd583aa68…4a9e2c04…2022-09-16 17:51:48 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-15#1012930 << coupla covid-ish cases in my meatwot too, all mild
ae1572bad583aa68…31d7d836…2022-09-16 17:52:38 <PeterL> here's an idea: get a friend to create a pest station, and then make your own network?
4d38fcd3527ae946…aead00a7…2022-09-23 00:03:19 <asciilifeform> well, falsifiable but on timescale 'nobody gives fuck about' -- rather like how aerial nuke tests shaved coupla yrs off errybody's mtbf
7f913ca675926b96…5945e7fd…2022-10-03 01:44:59 <asciilifeform> perhaps moar achievable than '1000y reichs' but only by a notch
0c1922a796db71b9…d3c901a8…2022-10-04 20:49:16 <phf> hmm, i was certain that i've fixed this issue, apparently not. i guess that's how this thread started to begin with
90a02a72b9c31dcf…63aaad25…2022-10-05 23:17:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 18:58:31 jonsykkel: how u mean, asciilifeform
9944820fbf41ad41…bf41ad41…2022-10-05 23:29:01 <jonsykkel> sup
:wh.gov TOPIC #pest :joe biden recommends smalpest 96K
a1b2131f64bdf4fc…a140e600…2022-10-05 23:23:37 <phf> hmm, does this change channel topic?
:pest 332 * #pest :here we sock cocks
059f4f41bad4581d…d583aa68…2022-09-16 17:52:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-15 23:46:12 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-10#1012640 << i feel like it's traveling around, i went to concert on monday, ended up tearing up my throat from screaming in mosh pit, but now i feel like it slowly transitioned into some kind of mild flu
0161d496ae1572ba…ae1572ba…2022-09-16 17:53:22 <PeterL> also, it might work better to directly ask people instead of putting out a general "anybody want to peer with me"?
359cf79a4d38fcd3…4d38fcd3…2022-09-23 00:04:18 <asciilifeform> ( you can distinguish post-1945 skeletons -- they all have detactable sr-90 )
3fb27da37f913ca6…7f913ca6…2022-10-03 01:45:24 <asciilifeform> and indeed sadly no such animal as 'compact tex' afaik
30106fcfa1b2131f…d9879855…2022-10-05 23:28:49 <shinohai> I see a topic change in console, but no actual text @ top of client.
8408e3b2059f4f41…0161d496…2022-09-16 17:54:46 <PeterL> both of my two elementary schoolers brought home notes saying that someone in their class has covid this week, we had it fairly recently, so hopefully our antibodies are still active
b1cbd14d3fb27da3…3fb27da3…2022-10-03 01:46:33 <asciilifeform> iirc tex predates (or at any rate conceived of in parallel with) even postscript, and hence support for the latter already bloats the kit and poorly impedance-matched
c2a933c1a93c29f6…a1b2131f…2022-10-05 23:37:06 <phf> fyi http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-multiline.png
9ee1f315a93c29f6…a93c29f6…2022-10-07 01:44:55 <jonsykkel> shinohai: http://zzz.st/up/GOHuiMPU/busybot.asc
7c25dcc38408e3b2…4bf525dd…2022-09-16 17:58:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012943 << some d00d from era1, loox like
f1162a3bbe5da826…be5da826…2022-09-23 14:30:54 <asciilifeform> in entirely unrelated finds, 'polyml' -- builds w/out complaint on dulap-gentoo, has native threads, x11ism, etc.
3425092cb1cbd14d…b1cbd14d…2022-10-03 01:48:11 <asciilifeform> (whereas the native 'dvi' output format is eaten by ~nuffin afaik)
c76c89a4faa3737c…776613a0…2022-10-04 21:08:23 <phf> Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed. A yellow dressinggown, ungirdled, was sustained gently behind him on the mild morning air. He held the bowl aloft and intoned:
cd290d28c2a933c1…c2a933c1…2022-10-05 23:38:26 <phf> well, this provided as much entertainment as it possibly could…
f21c05e77c25dcc3…059f4f41…2022-09-16 17:59:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 13:46:33 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-13#1113701 << who is this crassly flattering dork anyway
d8739d04f1162a3b…f1162a3b…2022-09-23 14:33:30 <asciilifeform> ( ./configure --with-x && make && make install rather then via emerge )
e5ab67463425092c…3425092c…2022-10-03 01:49:04 <asciilifeform> ... other than the various converters, that is
ada8b101cd290d28…9c616b85…2022-10-05 23:42:31 <shinohai> phf, do you plan on making your pest item public at any point?
55d803c4f21c05e7…7c25dcc3…2022-09-16 17:59:45 <asciilifeform> ( and not even the 1st to walk into #a and 'ohey is this mp mausoleum?' lol )
33d9a4c4d8739d04…d8739d04…2022-09-23 15:39:24 <asciilifeform> ^ ... apparently also needs --prefix=/usr argument to configure on dulap-gentoo
8099b054e5ab6746…e5ab6746…2022-10-03 01:51:42 asciilifeform often wonders what sorta proprietary lolware exists for mathematical typesetting; or rather, whether any of it ever advanced beyond microshit ordeal where 'pluck a symbol from this-here multipage box with mouse errytime'
927c5899911854b4…911854b4…2022-10-04 21:08:23 <phf> Halted, he peered down the dark winding stairs and called out coarsely:
8d25a12fada8b101…cd290d28…2022-10-05 23:46:54 <phf> shinohai, yes, but as of now it's not a "real pest", it's more of non-compliant client that's good enough to chat, but not otherwise properly participate in the network
21357be555d803c4…2ce759cf…2022-09-16 18:11:03 <signpost> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-18#1136945 << ah oldfag indeed
0dc645e48099b054…8099b054…2022-10-03 01:52:57 <asciilifeform> afaik today even schoolbooks baked w/ latex ( with megatonne of custom styling so that 'not obv latex' )
2970c21f5d84e682…804a575a…2022-09-23 22:51:30 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, United States - peers: 228 - last probed: 33m ago
012154220dc645e4…0dc645e4…2022-10-03 01:53:36 asciilifeform seen a few that were obv baked w/ 'mathematica' tho
4ddaeab86968dbf4…6968dbf4…2022-10-04 21:08:23 <phf> Solemnly he came forward and mounted the round gunrest. He faced about and blessed gravely thrice the tower, the surrounding land and the awaking mountains. Then, catching sight of Stephen Dedalus, he bent towards him and made rapid crosses in the air, gurgling in his throat and shaking his head. Stephen Dedalus, displease
426bd0ce9d8a7d1f…742470f9…2022-10-07 02:09:26 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 10 hours 4 minutes and 24 seconds
df138668ca130c3e…ca130c3e…2022-10-28 17:26:42 <jonsykkel> rewrited client will for sure be enginered in less 30iq manner, with splited front end and "libpest" and wat not
cb2314dfe5bd0a04…f21c05e7…2022-09-16 18:22:08 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: asciilifeform: all i want is someone who can rise up to take mircea popescu, that great man's, place. a person who can make me laugh so hard i near piss myself by threatening a bitcoin developer with death ovr a minor af technical dispute then in the next breath claim it's not a real t
7bb3eec02970c21f…2970c21f…2022-09-23 22:51:30 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=755407, v=88888, France - peers: 71 - last probed: just now
764bdcde01215422…75926b96…2022-10-03 01:53:42 <phf> asciilifeform, the problem as far as bloat is not just that "postscript is big", it's the fact that there's constant ongoing vertical integration, so most tools exist as a subdirecotry of texlive multi-gb distribution
44e0ed624ddaeab8…4ddaeab8…2022-10-04 21:08:23 <phf> d and sleepy, leaned his arms on the top of the staircase and looked coldly at the shaking gurgling face that blessed him, equine in its length, and at the light untonsured hair, grained and hued like pale oak.
7685b0d26e1afcf7…6e1afcf7…2022-10-16 16:51:04 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: gotta ask, wainot instead replace the board? (is it a rarity?)
c7fbe990df138668…df138668…2022-11-07 04:01:36 <jonsykkel> wtf dose this mean? http://zzz.st/up/GyCcR4qx/
563153377bb3eec0…7bb3eec0…2022-09-23 22:51:30 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, Canada - peers: 63 - last probed: 34m ago
f69e8a8944e0ed62…44e0ed62…2022-10-04 21:10:29 <phf> while that fixes an immediate problem, it introduces a new one: if one were to stitch it back together, will lose newlines, because in addition to fitting into a message i also intorduce a split on newline
66b09eb5317b0997…38465a15…2022-10-05 23:52:32 <shinohai> It happens, daily drudgery has limited my time to experiment with pest for ~month now.
efb6f887f9373e6e…f9373e6e…2022-09-16 18:22:45 <signpost> also "success of pest means masses all fart their quips into the thing" etc
668e2b3b56315337…56315337…2022-09-23 22:51:30 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=755404, v=70001, United States - peers: 52 - last probed: 34m ago
1898111cf69e8a89…f69e8a89…2022-10-04 21:11:15 <phf> so really blatta should handle newlines in incomming pest messages better, by splitting them into multiple privmsgs, rather than having other clients accomodate this particular ircism
af85e0bef69e8a89…faa3737c…2022-10-04 21:43:04 <asciilifeform> lol! asciilifeform had nfi, wouldn't have dreamed in nightmare that one can stuff >1 newline into irc msg
ab62569a08d618a3…ef30fecb…2022-10-28 17:30:34 <signpost> asciilifeform: I've also considered in what apps pest could be embedded as an unspoken implementation detail, later "freed".
da926c5eeda1bffc…eda1bffc…2022-11-07 04:03:18 <jonsykkel> trying to corebot but it wants same version gcc and gnat.
3f8967be194d0a29…194d0a29…2022-11-07 04:03:37 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: 'gnat-gpl' is broken sadware, rec to avoid
99e7a8c0efb6f887…e5bd0a04…2022-09-16 18:23:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: moar of a 'ohey i found an old b&w tv in basement, can i still see eisenhower on it?' lol
034d95c4668e2b3b…668e2b3b…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 39 - last probed: 33m ago
36560c0839b6ab7c…764bdcde…2022-10-03 01:54:40 <phf> so for example dvips existed as its own tool in the early 2000s, was maybe couple of thousand lines of code. then "integrated with kpathsea", which is a monster of a library to do path searches
4927b86e0bf6ad5a…e5efc91e…2022-10-06 01:31:45 <asciilifeform> in other noose, escaped double-% dunwork in curr blatta
e183a4f7ab62569a…ab62569a…2022-10-28 17:31:11 <signpost> "oh, here's a secure platform for interacting with your lawyers and accountants in context of privilege"
74dfe040da926c5e…3f8967be…2022-11-07 04:04:40 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: it dun come w/ buildroot (which bakes internal gcc, gnat, etc.) anymoar?
6c67fe40da926c5e…da926c5e…2022-11-07 04:04:55 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: it does bake an internal gcc at least, but seems to want another gcc+gnat to compile the build system itself
c3e03af7034d95c4…034d95c4…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, United States - peers: 35 - last probed: 34m ago
088aac0636560c08…39b6ab7c…2022-10-03 01:55:37 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's orig. ancient makefile for latex in fact invoked 'dvips', found that it chokes on tikzisms
8bf85b9234a662f0…e0c83603…2022-10-04 21:49:35 <phf> tbh i aways found pastes to be distasteful. i suppose problem could be solved with attached mime annotated files and a whole lot of dwim interface patterns, but in practice haven't seen it done right anywhere
c006b8aae183a4f7…e183a4f7…2022-10-28 17:35:04 <signpost> one could make several of these, pump them into various markets with traditional salesforces, then connect them all, and allahu-ackbar the businesses.
3de97d149a0f1255…99e7a8c0…2022-09-16 19:14:29 <asciilifeform> signpost: for extra lulz, that log ptr is 1d after 1st phuctor bang thrd
7ce3e12fc3e03af7…c3e03af7…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=662035, v=99999, United States - peers: 32 - last probed: just now
2af83203088aac06…088aac06…2022-10-03 01:56:27 <asciilifeform> good % of latexism has this 'witchcraft' flavour, hence asciilifeform's reluctance to 'upgrade' any of the pieces, his install is from '13 in fact
0729bbf78bf85b92…8bf85b92…2022-10-04 21:50:43 <phf> telegram used to support ``` foo ```, but then for whatever reason they disabled it
6359b286c006b8aa…bdcd8076…2022-10-28 17:51:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: pestron as 'easter egg' in ipnojeisms, nintendo cartridges, etc. prolly notbad idea
65a6ac94234a9249…74dfe040…2022-11-07 04:06:18 <asciilifeform> forwat does that thing even need a gnat?
b20c75e93de97d14…cb2314df…2022-09-16 19:15:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 14:11:42 signpost: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-18#1136945 << ah oldfag indeed
8e4fe5bb7ce3e12f…7ce3e12f…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=755407, v=99999, United States - peers: 25 - last probed: just now
dd9412e20729bbf7…0729bbf7…2022-10-04 21:52:07 <phf> in the ideal world i want my chat window to be a multiplayer mathematica: inline images, inline graphs, multiline inline text pastes from terminal outputs and such
7c50e388e4819943…e4819943…2022-10-16 18:41:41 <billymg> awt: pgpgram for when you have a moment http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ceqV
132fa8d66359b286…6359b286…2022-10-28 17:51:43 <asciilifeform> anyffin w/ a nic (or gsm modem) in principle oughta host one
24b23a0ad73a156c…d73a156c…2022-11-07 04:05:43 <jonsykkel> it complains if not there at least, but lets build without
4b10c7d3b20c75e9…b20c75e9…2022-09-16 19:15:10 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-05-17 asciilifeform: davout: in not too long, i will learn who the 2nd one is.
fea4d9538e4fe5bb…8e4fe5bb…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=755307, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 15 - last probed: 34m ago
32be4c9f7c50e388…54ebc217…2022-10-16 18:44:48 <awt> ty billymg doing a little shopping today will read it tonight
28bfcd98132fa8d6…132fa8d6…2022-10-28 17:53:00 <asciilifeform> ( tho getting keys into it might be tricky, if no camera or app dunhave access rights to it )
df83521a4b10c7d3…3de97d14…2022-09-16 19:25:49 <asciilifeform> btw billymg asciilifeform still sees horiz. scrollbar on above when reading via yer logger
fb17a99efea4d953…fea4d953…2022-09-23 22:51:31 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, United States - peers: 10 - last probed: 34m ago
f1cc2a8f77d489c8…ed4efb5a…2022-10-03 01:57:17 <phf> probably back when lamport wrote it in 89 or whatever, was nice and elegant, but now it's a monster
d92b7dcbbb870ba6…bb870ba6…2022-10-05 02:11:57 <asciilifeform> pastes, naturally, oughta be nelsonian 'transclusions' neh.
9747fea932be4c9f…5963f02f…2022-10-17 01:53:29 <asciilifeform> meanwhile in moar spec preview gibblets.
0348890728bfcd98…28bfcd98…2022-10-28 17:55:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014566 << fwiw there are nao ice40-compat. ('ecp5', ~83k LUTs) w/ gb nic, for signpost's old idea re 'filter for validly signed incoming packets in dc'
dc97d491d5b649e8…65a6ac94…2022-11-07 04:07:35 asciilifeform looks for shinohai's gnat recipe, but his www apparently kaput?
4df231f9df83521a…df83521a…2022-09-16 20:47:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012961 << fwiw nuffin keeps whatever lamers from bringing up own pestnets (well, other than the fact that 'too much like work' lol)
100e2d0dfb17a99e…fb17a99e…2022-09-23 22:51:32 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=755407, v=99999, United States - peers: 8 - last probed: just now
e22cef75f1cc2a8f…77d489c8…2022-10-03 01:57:39 <asciilifeform> reminiscent of cpp , which also started as 'elegant preprocessor for c'
94580804d92b7dcb…d92b7dcb…2022-10-05 02:12:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013884 << what did that notation do ?
932446c103488907…7ba5bd67…2022-10-28 17:56:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 13:24:28 signpost: asciilifeform: btc gains that zero without sandwich also, and I'll help pay for that.
f11b7063b47681e6…416b7007…2022-11-07 04:09:06 <asciilifeform> ancient recipe for same. iirc signpost had a moar recent one but grr can't find atm
416b7007dc97d491…dc97d491…2022-11-07 04:08:05 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's mirror of adacorpse's gnat fwiw
625875774df231f9…4b10c7d3…2022-09-16 20:48:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 14:23:23 signpost: also "success of pest means masses all fart their quips into the thing" etc
5cb7324b100e2d0d…100e2d0d…2022-09-23 22:51:32 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=755404, v=99999, United States - peers: 4 - last probed: 34m ago
ee13325de22cef75…f1cc2a8f…2022-10-03 01:57:54 <phf> it's a quentessential "hack". sort of like if somebody were to write DERIVE in brainfuck, because reasons
8a146b6a94580804…57d7872e…2022-10-05 02:13:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 17:51:30 phf[awt]: telegram used to support ``` foo ```, but then for whatever reason they disabled it
796c207e932446c1…03488907…2022-10-28 17:56:47 <asciilifeform> load keys via rs232, connect fire hose on 1 end, valid packets out the other.
49bec31d3954f11c…b6033fb1…2022-11-07 04:11:12 <signpost> jonsykkel: http://trinque.org/src/pentacle.tar.gz http://trinque.org/src/pentacle.tar.gz.asc
85b69d665cb7324b…5d84e682…2022-09-23 22:58:09 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-23#1013437 << getting there... (started around here)
02dfcdd2ee13325d…e22cef75…2022-10-03 01:58:23 <asciilifeform> ^, and that nobody ever attempted to rewrite because 'aint nobody got the time'
b9bd8465796c207e…796c207e…2022-10-28 17:57:53 asciilifeform suspects the need for this will be felt moar acutely once we've the luby file transfer thing
827cf57be54b1568…2e164bff…2022-10-29 19:12:45 asciilifeform uncrated the board from earlier; surprisingly, 2d via usps across whole continent
0054691649bec31d…49bec31d…2022-11-07 04:11:34 <signpost> oughta write up proper instructions on blog but there's a README in there
d9d1bea0c085ae18…c085ae18…2022-09-16 20:50:06 asciilifeform pictures various lulz resulting from idjits exchanging keys over unsecured channels; but imho unlikely to get to this point, it aint as if pestron is loadable via crapple appstore etc
5036e79d85b69d66…af3012b1…2022-09-23 22:54:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-23 18:51:36 crawlerbot: [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=662035, v=99999, United States - peers: 32 - last probed: just now
f94b695102dfcdd2…02dfcdd2…2022-10-03 01:58:51 <asciilifeform> indeed phakt that no one will ever get tenure or promotion to lieutenant-general etc from 'write sane typesetter', given as 'hey there's latex'
095d600bfe20064e…fe20064e…2022-10-05 02:14:26 asciilifeform has it filed in head as 'aol/skype clone popular in orcistans' but not knows details
49e6beafb9bd8465…c006b8aa…2022-10-28 17:58:29 <signpost> nice, that still seems like a good product to build.
d3d0b443827cf57b…fa187a72…2022-10-29 19:13:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 13:56:27 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014566 << fwiw there are nao ice40-compat. ('ecp5', ~83k LUTs) w/ gb nic, for signpost's old idea re 'filter for validly signed incoming packets in dc'
419061b69f3818f9…9f3818f9…2022-11-08 19:28:02 <jonsykkel> but if they can do infinite toilet paper thing, why is there any rise at all in au/btc
a2f4a04fd9d1bea0…9a0f1255…2022-09-16 20:52:15 <signpost> this thing where they chitter about how lazy they are, and why aren't you entertaining me. after all, I'm here! etc
87fd17095036e79d…5036e79d…2022-09-23 22:54:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-04 00:18:35 crawlerbot[billymg]: [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=121765, v=99999, United States - peers: 764 - last probed: 34m ago
327e6c1cf94b6951…f94b6951…2022-10-03 02:00:10 asciilifeform recalls bolix's document system, tho. 100% parallel universe, and imho notbad
775de33c095d600b…095d600b…2022-10-05 02:16:12 <asciilifeform> imho an 'adult' pestron oughta support inline img, optionally displayed. we aint there yet tho
cc42536971c7a354…eff9388b…2022-10-06 16:35:32 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 30 minutes and 29 seconds
fd09633e49e6beaf…49e6beaf…2022-10-28 17:58:37 signpost has written a lisp version of the encoder item, currently dog slow.
b19e837c419061b6…419061b6…2022-11-08 19:28:26 <jonsykkel> would they like to supres 100%, but theres some limit, where it would be too obvious even for morons wat they are doing
b542d361c8adfafe…00546916…2022-11-07 04:11:54 signpost can walk ya through a build tomorrow. shinohai got it done easily
7645e59d87fd1709…85b69d66…2022-09-23 22:59:12 <billymg> looks like it'll be around 3 months for a full sync from scratch
f2da254b775de33c…775de33c…2022-10-05 02:16:52 <asciilifeform> ( and, naturally, they oughta ride on signpost's luby scheme )
759b0f6eb19e837c…559793f3…2022-11-08 19:29:34 <signpost> it does, but the busts do tend to enrich dominant players while taxing all subordinate classes.
661bffc2b19e837c…b19e837c…2022-11-08 19:32:35 <jonsykkel> hard to say if frozen wihtout knowing wat the numbers are suposed to lok like
7e991dc4c60d27cc…d9d1bea0…2022-09-16 20:53:49 <asciilifeform> signpost: it does happen that bored kid tunes in and 'infected' w/ desire to actually ~do~ sumthing, tho admittedly not often
e8d9cd199413f68e…de02b02f…2022-09-23 23:20:55 <billymg> if i was in a hurry would've tried the cement, but no rush for this one
c883c68dfddd0c79…327e6c1c…2022-10-03 02:00:52 <asciilifeform> it'd take a bolix-style effort (and sane bedrock) to dislodge tex, asciilifeform suspects
60ce6082f2da254b…f2da254b…2022-10-05 02:18:34 <asciilifeform> and re: 'multiplayer mathematica', per asciilifeform's lights, it'd follow quite organically from a sane 'single-player mathematica', i.e. 'the computer that aint a mistake'
18d6d36abb058512…fd09633e…2022-10-28 18:00:10 <signpost> probably oughta put my big boy pants on and write in ada; it's perfectly amenable to working within fixed-length buffers. dynamic language is almost getting in the way, or my inept use of it.
babe8ee044888a1b…14934292…2022-10-30 07:03:28 <signpost> got that lisp encoder on par with the python impl. seems like there's plenty of optimization to be had yet.
bfbe1eef759b0f6e…759b0f6e…2022-11-08 19:30:10 <signpost> jonsykkel: not a matter of obvious, just a matter of when the valuable things have moved to their hands imho
a3eb7ed6661bffc2…ca3a94dc…2022-11-08 19:38:51 <billymg> some other lulzy details, such as "ZHONG thereafter exchanged through an overseas cryptocurrency exchange all of the BCH Crime Proceeds for additional Bitcoin, amounting to approximately 3,500 Bitcoin of additional crime proceeds."
d6b36c2b661bffc2…661bffc2…2022-11-08 19:51:29 <jonsykkel> but wat time scale are we looking at then , cuz theres 20x noise in the btc signal as far as i can tell
36ac3c08e8d9cd19…9413f68e…2022-09-23 23:17:13 <asciilifeform> when 0 hurry, regular imho is the way to go, 'how sad is the current network' is valuable info
cddcf70218d6d36a…bb058512…2022-10-28 18:14:11 <asciilifeform> the board in question, ftr. ( asciilifeform picked up , not tried just yet tho )
3eff153fbabe8ee0…babe8ee0…2022-10-30 07:03:44 <signpost> unnecessary recomputation of the alias method lookup table was bogging it down.
bfb9dbb0bfbe1eef…bfbe1eef…2022-11-08 19:30:48 <signpost> see e.g. CZ eating all competition during this winter.
46b8e946bfbe1eef…68547054…2022-11-08 19:35:57 <billymg> every now and then the waterfall is refilled with actual coin as well, handed over not voluntarily, but in a shakedown, e.g. like this recent announcement: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction
e82bd2dea3eb7ed6…a3eb7ed6…2022-11-08 19:39:24 <billymg> smart enough to dump the airdropped shitcoin but not smart enough to encrypt his keys (or even leave the country)
b232e4afbb7c6d47…bb7c6d47…2022-09-16 20:55:18 signpost happy to take more wives, but a man's gotta have standards.
6ed062ac36ac3c08…36ac3c08…2022-09-23 23:17:55 <asciilifeform> ( doesn't hurt to shit out cement ~after~ & compare to the published one tho )
0e399c84b27dee6f…fddd0c79…2022-10-03 02:12:06 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013654 << but then eventually https://tug.org/TUGboat/tb38-2/tb119tolusis.pdf
1983c7a8d1126241…d1126241…2022-10-05 13:36:59 <shinohai> Heh I see reply in bot's console, but takes 1000 hours now for it to reply here.
76896ac570a7b32e…7b11c968…2022-10-06 16:52:17 shinohai figures this is best it's gonna get for now .....
bc0e245b3eff153f…3eff153f…2022-10-30 07:04:49 <signpost> asciilifeform: phf: any notions re: efficient xor of subsequences of a given bit vector? seems like using displaced arrays nukes optimization of bit-xor
51126b6746b8e946…1834b163…2022-11-08 19:30:54 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: the organized dampening afaik started in '17, and not immed. effective, so exchrate after certain time 'frozen' in place
ed98b5f1e82bd2de…aa7f9daf…2022-11-08 19:34:48 <signpost> wasn't this the post-dpr silk road honeypot too?
e0c4f5d8a535d6c9…a535d6c9…2022-11-08 19:52:50 <jonsykkel> theres some "real component" and bunch a waves on top
ecafe1a5b232e4af…7e991dc4…2022-09-16 20:57:50 asciilifeform recalls mp's projects to reel in 'moar wives'
b49a72f1b232e4af…8408e3b2…2022-09-16 21:01:34 <PeterL> if they want to just be entertained by the smart guys, the log is freely available for reading
8617e0c00e399c84…b89f4334…2022-10-03 02:12:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 21:55:38 phf[awt]: so for example dvips existed as its own tool in the early 2000s, was maybe couple of thousand lines of code. then "integrated with kpathsea", which is a monster of a library to do path searches
8f5155b176896ac5…76896ac5…2022-10-06 23:04:13 <shinohai> Any tuned in wishing for peering key w/ busybot sing out and I'll pgp you (will be checking logs next couple of days while I do bot maintenance).
cbfcc7f7bc0e245b…bc0e245b…2022-10-30 07:05:35 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=z1oZ << current sauce
5ac0202f51126b67…51126b67…2022-11-08 19:31:08 <asciilifeform> (started with Official 'legalization' of use of btc by 'financialists')
7d56a992ed98b5f1…ed98b5f1…2022-11-08 19:35:37 <signpost> ah nope, looks like from dpr era. I thought another sprung up, maybe under another name. doesn't matter.
245cef90e0c4f5d8…8c628f4b…2022-11-08 21:24:59 <asciilifeform> signpost: re 'over his head' -- there's a fundamental problem neither dpr nor other 'uppity plebe' had any way of solving
80f9efd0e0c4f5d8…e0c4f5d8…2022-11-09 06:30:09 <jonsykkel> true theres no "hackings" etc in reich assets
1f425eacecafe1a5…ecafe1a5…2022-09-16 20:58:58 <asciilifeform> ( from result, the q of 'what were the standards' remains mystery )
551253aa8617e0c0…0e399c84…2022-10-03 02:12:30 <phf> "We present two extensions to dvips. One allows flexible inclusion of bitmap images and was imple- mented on top of the FreeImage library. The second extension solves quite a long-standing task: adding OpenType font support to dvips. Our extended dvips, xdvipsk, goes the “LuaTEX way” in Open- Type font management: it w
9a8041678f5155b1…1aa9b69e…2022-10-06 23:57:20 <asciilifeform> shinohai: let's peer it w/ dulapbot. plox to gpg key
69863f5ecbfcc7f7…cbfcc7f7…2022-10-30 07:05:59 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=kAql << and tests
23e305195ac0202f…bfb9dbb0…2022-11-08 19:31:28 <signpost> billymg lol, the lack of a decimal in that URL!
a8ac5dfc245cef90…36364570…2022-11-08 21:26:12 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 asciilifeform: billymg: i disagree that it's a numeric problem, even necessarily. say, martians land, and leave you 25 tonnes of refined pu as a parting gift. you will 'pass into elite' ? or perhaps not ? what do you suppose would happen ?
4230e18580f9efd0…80f9efd0…2022-11-09 06:30:39 <jonsykkel> but those also dont have the same hype waves or watever that can at least in theory explain some of btc style crashes (if exch rate is mostly artificialy inflated, is it really a crash)
401a1b0ed15d2c13…d15d2c13…2022-09-16 21:04:53 <asciilifeform> and w/out exception, historically the folx who ended up doing sumthing, lurked for a spell 1st
ada2946a551253aa…551253aa…2022-10-03 02:12:30 <phf> orks on DVI files com- piled by LuaTEX and expects to find the necessary Unicode map files, obtained as by-products of the compilation. The providing of these map files is en- sured by a special LATEX package."
e6f4b5ca1f6265c8…dd9412e2…2022-10-05 17:01:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013888 << it's, i think originally, a markdown convention for verbatim text block
de8f68959a804167…8f5155b1…2022-10-07 00:12:32 <shinohai> asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Pa59
91fd763069863f5e…69863f5e…2022-10-30 07:06:36 <signpost> barring something smarter, I might just chop the thing into many non-displaced bit-vectors instead of trying to do everything in one giant bit-vector
efa47aa735c6597b…35c6597b…2022-11-08 19:36:42 <asciilifeform> iirc comparable to the orig. sr dekulakization.
0fc7de98a8ac5dfc…245cef90…2022-11-08 21:26:08 <asciilifeform> sorta why the latest d00d 'under blankets in a popcorn tin stored in a bathroom closet'.
a9ac556c4230e185…4230e185…2022-11-09 06:30:53 <jonsykkel> im dont really know how to make sense of it
a1cc7583401a1b0e…b49a72f1…2022-09-16 21:06:20 <PeterL> re. exchanging keys over unsecure channels - most people don't have secrets worth stealing, so why would they worry about using an unsecure channel to send keys?
6210811cada2946a…ada2946a…2022-10-03 02:13:21 <phf> that's also the version of dvips that lives in tex-live distribution, and the one that you have on your system
d84b9607ada2946a…b27dee6f…2022-10-03 03:05:07 asciilifeform still not grasps why fonts gotta exist in completely diff vector-graphical format from the lines an' graphs etc., other than 'historical reasons'(tm)
ef14646fe6f4b5ca…8a146b6a…2022-10-05 17:01:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 22:13:26 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013884 << what did that notation do ?
caa8a1a3de8f6895…9a804167…2022-10-07 01:32:29 <asciilifeform> shinohai: done. see if worx on yer end
09b91adcc045a5e8…c6cf84fd…2022-10-28 18:33:24 <asciilifeform> afaik the most spacious ice40-compat. demoboard atm
bd87103991fd7630…91fd7630…2022-10-30 07:07:53 <signpost> since later this thing will need to eat/shit files on disk, the in-memory mega-array will have to go anyway. who says what's to be broadcast/received fits in RAM. was just a place to start.
ca3a94dccda3ab31…cda3ab31…2022-11-08 19:37:38 <billymg> signpost: that figure was measured at $66k/btc also, when it was seized last november
2f7549bbefa47aa7…efa47aa7…2022-11-08 19:38:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-08#1015769 << indeed, but can get some clue from 'owner class' assets which actually appear to track 'the real inflation'(tm) -- real estate, rembrandts, etc
080326ea0fc7de98…0fc7de98…2022-11-08 21:32:46 <asciilifeform> near as asciilifeform can tell, the ~actual btc economy~ (i.e. what remains after subtracting the reich subsidiaries that demand passport etc. when trading anyffin for coin, so can report its 'sale' and the 'gain') is ~weaker~ today than in the days of the infamous pizza.
e1f5b0cda9ac556c…a9ac556c…2022-11-09 06:55:49 <jonsykkel> legit(tm) place to spend somwat similar how they kiled p2p file sharing
5f143b5da1cc7583…401a1b0e…2022-09-16 21:09:26 <asciilifeform> PeterL: well they won't worry, lol, until their wot hijacked by 1st joker who comes along
bb9142f3d84b9607…d84b9607…2022-10-03 03:05:58 <asciilifeform> far as asciilifeform concerned, whole shebang oughta've been a henderson-style tower of sexpr from day1
e0af168bef14646f…60ce6082…2022-10-05 17:28:10 asciilifeform thinking that msgs with > n (for some n) chunks oughta travel in luby transport.
839e958ccaa8a1a3…de8f6895…2022-10-07 01:33:58 <shinohai> Appears to work here (at least seen from busybot station).
45e247c309b91adc…c045a5e8…2022-10-28 18:33:56 signpost will return to work on that encoder in a few weeks for a breather from the webshits projects.
4d4640d92f7549bb…9e8e71d7…2022-11-08 19:39:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:34:30 jonsykkel: hard to say if frozen wihtout knowing wat the numbers are suposed to lok like
5f556c46080326ea…080326ea…2022-11-08 21:34:04 <asciilifeform> likely, dpr (or 'popcorn tin' d00d) could not even buy a pizza with that 50+k.
706693e2e1f5b0cd…e1f5b0cd…2022-11-09 06:55:57 <jonsykkel> atempts to outright ban failed, so lower pleb expectations of quality until happily acept sewer slop version of item
84004c5e5f143b5d…5f143b5d…2022-09-16 21:11:00 <asciilifeform> ( who has $key, will get peers to re-AT to his box immed., and then can issue rekey etc )
1b6fabe8bb9142f3…bb9142f3…2022-10-03 03:07:00 <asciilifeform> then not even would matter if rendering to vga or printer etc. ( incidentally sony made this go entirely reasonably in '80s w/ their 'display postscript' x11 replacement fwiw )
cb623d5de0af168b…e0af168b…2022-10-05 17:29:26 asciilifeform reserving some msg type coads for these in new spec, but w/out detail, as we dunhaveit justyet
355f873e839e958c…64ce53b6…2022-10-07 01:34:11 <asciilifeform> on asciilifeform's station, ^ busybot[dulapbot] , so evidently yes. ty
5d63709445e247c3…09b91adc…2022-10-28 18:35:14 asciilifeform mired as always in commercial liquishit, but occasionally comes up for air, and ~80% done w/ rewritten pest doc
f9f42cc48df6b148…827cf57b…2022-10-30 14:41:35 <asciilifeform> signpost: pretty neat. you'll want file chunks as direct msg tho, rather than broadcast, if you let'em all-to-all no amt of bw will ever suffice. iirc we had a thread where 'let each station offer operator-selected files to own peers'.
09a8708faa7f9daf…5ac0202f…2022-11-08 19:32:59 <asciilifeform> 'Specifically, law enforcement located 50,491.06251844 Bitcoin of the approximately 53,500 Bitcoin Crime Proceeds (a) in an underground floor safe; and (b) on a single-board computer that was submerged under blankets in a popcorn tin stored in a bathroom closet.'
8c628f4b4d4640d9…2f7549bb…2022-11-08 19:40:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-08#1015771 << orig dpr iirc not had anyffin resembling 'exit strategy' either.
f25efc905f556c46…5f556c46…2022-11-08 21:34:49 <asciilifeform> needed a diff. wot, and these aint for sale.
b0f68a1f706693e2…706693e2…2022-11-09 06:56:33 <jonsykkel> anonymus p2p netwokr of free quality warez sharing -> netflix sewerslop subscription to keep slave entertained enough so no riot
30dcaace84004c5e…b232e4af…2022-09-16 21:28:55 <signpost> ah that's easy, just create a Trust and Safety committee which will return identities to their rightful owners.
552b740d1b6fabe8…1b6fabe8…2022-10-03 03:08:34 <asciilifeform> as it is, for fonts alone we've postscript, truetype, opentype, and wtf else
66694a29355f873e…044bc909…2022-10-07 01:35:38 <shinohai> plox to pgpgram me key so I can peer with dulapbot from personal station as well
aa0285685d637094…5d637094…2022-10-28 18:36:41 <asciilifeform> imho w/ new one , over9000x simpler to write correct client ( simplified mechanics of broadcast intake , as noted earlier, among other things )
3fb85fa3f9f42cc4…f9f42cc4…2022-10-30 14:43:35 asciilifeform atm has this in the new spec draft in anticipation of signpost's thing
363645708c628f4b…4d4640d9…2022-11-08 19:41:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:35:34 billymg: smart enough to dump the airdropped shitcoin but not smart enough to encrypt his keys (or even leave the country)
70711f9ef25efc90…f25efc90…2022-11-08 21:35:44 asciilifeform still regularly encounters folx who read fishwraps, at time of dpr, and genuinely believe 'on the net, you can hire hitman! and not even costs much!' etc
873c2785b0f68a1f…b0f68a1f…2022-11-09 06:56:39 <jonsykkel> anonymus p2p curency that makes savings posible for pleb -> paperized, kycized, taxed, privacy nightmare
75abb837552b740d…552b740d…2022-10-03 03:09:10 <asciilifeform> ( iirc traceable to a early '80s patent wank featuring crapple against adobe . )
4865febbdd51e2a2…cb623d5d…2022-10-05 17:42:23 <asciilifeform> well asciilifeform for 1 has currently nfi what n oughtabe
8d21c916aa028568…932446c1…2022-10-28 18:37:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-25 13:05:07 asciilifeform[5]: nao, msg only held up if a) a chain precedent missing, and we getdata'd for it, ~1s b) hearsay arrives with bounce > alltime_minimum(speaker) -- give time for immed/lower-bounce to arrive
4b5360f83fb85fa3…3fb85fa3…2022-10-30 14:44:56 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's notion is, can issue 'i want file with $hash' to >1 peer, and get direct lubyisms from >1 if they have it
4399557ed19983f1…d19983f1…2022-11-08 19:33:22 <asciilifeform> 'Beginning in or around March 2022, ZHONG began voluntarily surrendering to the Government additional Bitcoin that ZHONG had access to and had not dissipated. In total, ZHONG voluntarily surrendered 1,004.14621836 additional Bitcoin.'
83ae0e5536364570…7d56a992…2022-11-08 19:43:02 <signpost> seemed like a php developer guy that got way over his head.
b259459370711f9e…70711f9e…2022-11-08 21:37:08 <asciilifeform> would think, naively, that just as these eventually learned in '90s that 'nigerian prince' aint as-advertised on the box -- would learn faster when 'nigerian prince' comes not only with bank acct cleanout but '20 to life'. but nope
45f98eeb873c2785…873c2785…2022-11-09 19:22:36 <jonsykkel> the will to live thing is a bit worse, agreed
4dfc19128d21c916…aa028568…2022-10-28 18:38:15 <asciilifeform> notably, if gui/dedicated rather than irc frontend, not need to handle forks as such, simply provide indicator of what selfhash/nethash of a msg points to, then forkage apparent visually
3f9c31974b5360f8…8df6b148…2022-10-30 15:31:03 <signpost> yep that sounds right. I was thinking it might be nice to inform peers how much spray you want from each to conserve bandwidth also, just as a politeness mechanism.
d777b03c83ae0e55…83ae0e55…2022-11-08 19:51:31 <signpost> see also insurance premiums (+ out of pocket) for real inflation rate. I'm over here selecting self-employed insurance. what a scam.
07defb5ab2594593…b2594593…2022-11-08 21:45:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-08#1015784 << there are waves, but observe that btc-style crashes 'not permitted' -- $mil house in reich absolutely never turns into $100k house (unless burns down)
c9d878f445f98eeb…a269ecb2…2022-11-09 20:24:11 <asciilifeform> ohey cheapcoinz? (if only somebody other than goxes were selling, lol)
7b1bf07d34cb03de…34cb03de…2022-09-17 00:24:00 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012950 << it was HEALTH & PERTURBATOR summer tour. it was more of an opportunistic thing, just happened to be in the city when they played. i wouldn't say i don't like them, i had my period of angsty noise music, but they were a bit too young and too angsty for my oldfag taste. the m
3e52ec2a1cdf484f…1cdf484f…2022-10-03 03:11:03 <phf> i mean t1 postscript fonts were basically tiny postscript programs for each letter to render a letter glyph, but even then they managed to fuck it up: the actual per-letter postscript is obfuscated through some very very simple cypher, because adobe was being adobe
bd1b118861b2f1f4…61b2f1f4…2022-10-05 17:46:49 <asciilifeform> unrelatedly, fwiw the hevea d00d replied re bug.
adf56d7e4dfc1912…4dfc1912…2022-10-28 18:38:44 <asciilifeform> ditto missing chain links -- can represent with 'question mark' and fill in as getdata returns it
cec1658b3f9c3197…3f9c3197…2022-10-30 15:32:02 <signpost> "do you have $hash?" -> "yep, and I call it foo, and it's $size" -> "pls canhaz 20mb of encoded fileblox"
a801137107defb5a…a8ac5dfc…2022-11-08 21:46:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:54:47 jonsykkel: theres some "real component" and bunch a waves on top
d40690e8a4907324…a4907324…2022-11-10 20:15:03 <jonsykkel> ohw does one generate circular chain without breaking sha257
252304187b1bf07d…62587577…2022-09-17 00:24:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 13:52:38 signpost: btw who'd you see?
01b101473e52ec2a…75abb837…2022-10-03 03:11:30 <asciilifeform> [insert oblig link to locklin's 'planes before cad actually flew in ~6mo from chalkboard] (tho too lazy to unearth link)
2c716063bd1b1188…ef14646f…2022-10-05 17:47:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 22:25:00 asciilifeform[4]: phf: was thoroughly stumped why randomly choked hevea, until found lolbug
4cc0605badf56d7e…adf56d7e…2022-10-28 18:39:08 <asciilifeform> the append-only irc frontend is a rather tight straightjacket.
cf8113a1cec1658b…cec1658b…2022-10-30 15:32:52 <signpost> the "do you have" can be used to get a sense of availability of $hash in your net
651031b9a8011371…07defb5a…2022-11-08 21:47:27 <asciilifeform> any time this kinda thing threatens to happen , the printer goes 'brrr', and its output dispatched 'in wheelbarrows' to where needed, so the 'tbtf' asset can be propped up.
852cc194d40690e8…a3408973…2022-11-10 20:18:19 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: can't presently think of a way
1afcb49ad40690e8…d40690e8…2022-11-11 13:52:26 <jonsykkel> pls link utube tutorial how to cold store my xaucoin
593ba21825230418…e06117bc…2022-09-17 00:25:00 <phf> but also like back in my day™ bands like that would be in warehouses, so the mosh would be on the concrete floor. here it was hardwood floor, so after a few spills it turned into a slip and slide. it's the small things…
0608612801b10147…01b10147…2022-10-03 03:12:17 <asciilifeform> phf: iirc they also introduced some kinda 'unprincipled exception' kludge to enable kerning/ligatures where reqs state
8182cab52c716063…bd1b1188…2022-10-05 17:47:36 <asciilifeform> ^ w/ less ugly patch than asciilifeform's orig.
ad84a064cf8113a1…4b5360f8…2022-10-30 15:48:06 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'how much firehose' is actually a tricky q, esp. if one considers peers w/ wildly mismatched pipes
eba181fb651031b9…651031b9…2022-11-08 21:52:04 <asciilifeform> sorta the entire point of the 'printer' -- to prop up essential elements of lizard power structure that otherwise could fall.
703295601afcb49a…f64a75df…2022-11-11 14:02:31 <billymg> ^ literally how bad it is out there in the normie channels
e3ac35dd1afcb49a…1afcb49a…2022-11-11 15:03:18 <jonsykkel> wander if thers market for auto "typewriter" device that u send data to throuhg serial port, stamps runes into 0.5mm steel plate based on n-symbol conversion key u invent and memorize. u decide n based on desired effort of memorization, security and compactnes. for fire+snoop proof storage of keys or other noise-looking da
483dccd9593ba218…593ba218…2022-09-17 00:30:00 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012974 << you're dellusional, that never happens, and all people like that do is bring down the s/n. this whole online yeshiva thing is bogus, because, and i appologize for a taleb-ism, there's no skin in the game. it's exactly "what's on TV"
486d2f0806086128…3e52ec2a…2022-10-03 03:12:24 <phf> of course somebody (i forgot who, it's in the lores, either unix room people, or smalltalk people) reversed the t1 format and "cracked" their scheme in a weekend, but the artifact stayed
94864c78ad84a064…ad84a064…2022-10-30 15:48:41 <asciilifeform> prolly oughta indicate in the request. 'i can eat n pieces / sec.'
d6a61dcbeba181fb…eba181fb…2022-11-08 21:54:49 <asciilifeform> if plebe works for wage for a week, 2-3 days are mandatorily to pay landlord or real-estate usurer; and at least 1 -- tax collector.
22b390cf70329560…70329560…2022-11-11 14:05:46 <billymg> major cultural shift from 2012-2016 era where "if i redirect this infinitely expanding fiat paper into a fixed-supply, immutable asset -- slowly, over time, number will go up" to "which meme token can i put $5k into that will pump and make me a millionaire by this weekend"
34dfdba2483dccd9…25230418…2022-09-17 00:30:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 16:54:38 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: signpost: it does happen that bored kid tunes in and 'infected' w/ desire to actually ~do~ sumthing, tho admittedly not often
ea1336d0486d2f08…486d2f08…2022-10-03 03:14:36 <phf> asciilifeform, tex is actually font agnostic by design, it lays out boxes of boxes, and it's the "printer" that fills out the smallest glyph boxes with their corresponding glyphs. so like .dvi doesn't have letters in it, but instead says something like "font1-glyph10" and it's e.g. xdvi or dvips that puts the glyphs in pla
b1c1fbe894864c78…cf8113a1…2022-10-30 15:48:42 <signpost> that's true. I'm thinking we don't want each peer to piss 1gb at receiver if file's 1gb though
669ecc86d6a61dcb…d6a61dcb…2022-11-08 21:55:09 <asciilifeform> this -- 'not negotiable', is what the reich is ~about~, fundamentally.
85b1b78202be5953…175d6c4b…2022-11-11 13:47:12 <billymg> A lot of people thought they were buying bitcoin but really they were just giving their money to an exchange, which then funneled it to the DNC.
df35fe3022b390cf…22b390cf…2022-11-11 14:08:01 <billymg> from "i am the one making number go up, however small my impact may be. i am ok with this because i know there are thousands of others like me" to "it's all in blackrock's hands now, i hope they pump it soon"
b5f79b512a4e67c4…2a4e67c4…2022-11-11 15:03:23 <jonsykkel> long data stored on multi plates on keyring etc
1b17304734dfdba2…483dccd9…2022-09-17 00:32:03 <phf> of course after the guy opens up with a bunch of ironic and idgy insults jonsykkel gives him peering info and asciilifeform helpfully explains how to setup the client
ead5f9ffea1336d0…06086128…2022-10-03 03:14:40 <asciilifeform> 'softwarization' of phototypesetter (previously the things had actual wheels w/ projection film per glyph) prolly made adobe-style copyrastage inevitable
8db6c54e120adefd…55e1b7fa…2022-10-05 18:20:46 <shinohai> nah I have nfi why it hasn't worked properly since station update. Still juggling a metric fuckton of irl things atm so will dive in when able.
1eea35f4b1c1fbe8…94864c78…2022-10-30 15:49:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: for that, oughta cut into blocks (say 1MB), w/ indiv. hashes
9390baa2669ecc86…d777b03c…2022-11-08 22:09:32 <signpost> good explanation for why BTC is irrelevant to the lizard class too. they're slavers, can own whatever you think you own by owning your ass outright.
380af65e85b1b782…85b1b782…2022-11-11 13:47:26 <billymg> If you want number to go up, withdraw your coins into cold storage.
2c34b575b5f79b51…852cc194…2022-11-11 15:20:51 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: sumbody sold a lower tech thing where steel letters insert into a plate a la gutenberg press and frame screws down.
17192a9d1b173047…1b173047…2022-09-17 00:33:41 <phf> so looking forward to pestnet being swamped with more of same. it's like you guys *enjoy* being insulted?
c7efc126eb2f4bc1…ead5f9ff…2022-10-03 03:15:26 <asciilifeform> iirc tex actually briefly pre-dates the bitmapization of photosetter, hence ^
ccc313e08db6c54e…38671016…2022-10-05 18:55:31 <signpost> in my case the big lags were solved by that order buffer knob
ad424d868db6c54e…8db6c54e…2022-10-05 19:00:04 <shinohai> I set that particular knob as suggested in logs, but still no dice :/
7627b20b1eea35f4…1eea35f4…2022-10-30 15:50:02 <asciilifeform> in general, oughta limit the amt of piss triggerable by 1 packet to sumthing reasonable
2b2fb1ac9390baa2…9390baa2…2022-11-08 22:10:50 <signpost> and liability if they understand that BTC tends to appeal to folks that bias against becoming slavers themselves, or so it appears to me.
4630afb7380af65e…380af65e…2022-11-11 13:48:48 <billymg> the above is pasta from twitter this morning, obvious to all those present but i figured i'd drop it in here for any noob log readers passing by
877adebf603b2244…603b2244…2022-11-11 15:23:18 <jonsykkel> expense of auto machine might not be justified for relatively smal amounts of use it would see
7492a728c7efc126…c7efc126…2022-10-03 03:15:46 <asciilifeform> (i.e. had to work with the film wheels kind)
4d37b0d3ccc313e0…ad424d86…2022-10-05 19:02:23 <shinohai> Seems I also have lag in personal station too somewhat, though everything else I run in shell seems snappy.
3f92abea7627b20b…7627b20b…2022-10-30 15:50:56 <asciilifeform> otherwise, too easy to get folx to drown ~selves~ in own piss, and not even through malice but by sheer accident
f64a75df4630afb7…4630afb7…2022-11-11 13:49:29 <billymg> IF YOU WANT NUMBER TO GO UP, WITHDRAW YOUR COINS INTO COLD STORAGE
3875dfe47492a728…7492a728…2022-10-03 03:16:14 <asciilifeform> and, as is typical, the birth defect perma-baked-in
79872d823f92abea…b1c1fbe8…2022-10-30 15:52:23 <signpost> yeah, perhaps something like you say. I initiate a transfer from peer p1 telling him "spray me packets at up to $limit" and p1 decides (or is limited by pipe) where beneath the limit the transfer operates (or above, nothing hard governs it obviously)
709d30b78faff183…669ecc86…2022-11-08 22:55:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-08#1015799 << can own whatever ~they know~ you own; which was the orig. appeal of btcism, and artfully 'nerfed' by 'legalization' (over9000 'legit(tm) places to spend' aka to demask yerself)
10f20b9f6b3194de…6b3194de…2022-11-11 16:05:42 <jonsykkel> moses tablet more esthetic tho. for the master keys
274b447a3875dfe4…eb2f4bc1…2022-10-03 03:18:13 <phf> yeah but how solve. "the whole spitoon" basically mandates fits in head, that is rewritable in its entirety on demand. was looking at oberon again, and was kind of amused that to this day the output of Project Oberon is a handful of source files, without a compiler or anything. you're supposed to bootstrap it by whatever m
603fa81d96d202a0…ccc313e0…2022-10-05 19:27:44 <signpost> is your bot only connected through your personal node?
4000099979872d82…79872d82…2022-10-30 15:52:51 <signpost> if I'm not saturated on my end, I can ask P2, P3, etc for same, incrementally filling up the amount of my pipe I wish to dedicate to the transfer
d18bef30709d30b7…a8011371…2022-11-08 22:56:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 17:10:32 signpost: good explanation for why BTC is irrelevant to the lizard class too. they're slavers, can own whatever you think you own by owning your ass outright.
5a3c48bd499db3fe…06581c9f…2022-11-10 03:54:23 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 3m
dca8f08f08ea6527…2c34b575…2022-11-11 15:56:14 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: if you want to store pages fulla keyz, learn to etch steel (similar process to pcb etching)
9043fe5b10f20b9f…c8bf1073…2022-11-11 17:31:25 <signpost> consider also that you're betting that sha256 works with bitcoin.
07d9cb5540000999…3f92abea…2022-10-30 15:53:32 <asciilifeform> in practice, most folx w/ pestron will be limited by cpu cost of decoding, rather than bw per se
ca81e761dca8f08f…dca8f08f…2022-11-11 15:56:54 <asciilifeform> imho much simpler to hide ciphered backups in over9000 places off-site.
0219c6c09043fe5b…9043fe5b…2022-11-11 17:32:04 <signpost> brain-wallet of sha256(absurdPoem) is possible
ae778afc339f6863…339f6863…2022-10-03 03:19:01 <phf> and then fits in head becomes monster once you want "my dissertation is on influence of 16th century japanese poetry on 17th century arabic sufi writing"
79a7aab5ca81e761…ca81e761…2022-11-11 15:57:36 <asciilifeform> that way also 'accidental' (or otherwise) unauthorized 'finder' has nfi what he found.
21b5cea80219c6c0…80c85274…2022-11-11 17:38:14 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015958 << There once was a joo named Sam, who said "Lemme hold dat coin for you fam!" ....
fdfa16969d3f1fc3…9d3f1fc3…2022-11-15 15:52:29 <jonsykkel> pg.22 "any Message where Speaker is not equal to its own" << so if change handle, one resets chain to 0?
a7bc76d9ae778afc…3875dfe4…2022-10-03 03:19:43 asciilifeform after reading wirth's b00k, tried one time 'can actually run oberon?', promptly and unsurprisingly broke teeth
533af96079a7aab5…79a7aab5…2022-11-11 15:57:51 <asciilifeform> (vs. moses-style tablets fulla obviously valuable material)
36ba62b221b5cea8…9970eb65…2022-11-11 17:39:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 12:33:05 signpost: brain-wallet of sha256(absurdPoem) is possible
fc4b865f26251bff…5a3c48bd…2022-11-11 18:26:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-07 asciilifeform: see also various ancient threads.
4058af2dfdfa1696…fdfa1696…2022-11-15 15:52:32 <jonsykkel> pg.22 "Note that the NetChain of a Message may not refer to one with a Timestamp greater than its own" << this efectively requires cloks to be synced within seconds, doesnt it. how to know if someone else is fast or you is slow
e3d8d545fdfa1696…719ea07d…2022-11-15 15:53:26 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in x11 lulz, 1337w4rez of 2017(!) b00k on subj. epicly horrid writing, nfi wat author was smoking. but possib. useful
42ef4cdfa7bc76d9…a7bc76d9…2022-10-03 03:20:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013680 << >> subj fwiw
7baa1e2952ffe7b5…120adefd…2022-10-05 20:16:56 <asciilifeform> in otherlulz, lulzy sideffects of yest.'s blatta bugola.
e84a6d44fc4b865f…26251bff…2022-11-11 18:54:16 <asciilifeform> meanwhile in re gui dig -- tried this item, which claimed 'No dependencies'. lol:
6c3b87f54058af2d…4058af2d…2022-11-15 15:52:36 <jonsykkel> pg.23 if pestron 0xFB or earlier encounters such message with all 284bytes used it will interpret the N and potentially the Of+TextHash as part of the utf8 string
4abf803d42ef4cdf…8617e0c0…2022-10-03 03:21:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 23:12:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: [insert oblig link to locklin's 'planes before cad actually flew in ~6mo from chalkboard] (tho too lazy to unearth link)
d9962231e84a6d44…fc4b865f…2022-11-11 18:54:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-11-04 23:04:20 asciilifeform: meanwhile went on a dig of 'sane multi-os gui libs?' in re: 'adult pestron', where threads, arbitrarily long msgs, jpg, files, etc and found -- just like 20y ago -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-03
f5e5da6a6c3b87f5…6c3b87f5…2022-11-15 15:52:39 <jonsykkel> pg.29 re "store list of peers from whom recved a min bounce copy" wats the purpose of storing this info forever? im thinking it will be somewat computationally annoying to handle if for example unpeer. shoudl this info be retained in log if this happens (former peer cant be uniquely identified simply by handle over a times
1fc77a444abf803d…ae778afc…2022-10-03 03:21:29 <phf> asciilifeform, i've ran it, by using somebody's emulator. see you're not supposed to "just run it". you're supposed to have understood the machine from the documentation, and then spent couple of months implemting the vm and the compiler on your host system, until you can bootstrap it from textual sources :D
6649537ad9962231…e84a6d44…2022-11-11 18:54:46 <asciilifeform> turns out, depends on 'glwf', which in turn depends on 'libXfixes', which.. will omit the barf, but dun build on dulap-gentoo
14ed692df5e5da6a…f5e5da6a…2022-11-15 15:52:39 <jonsykkel> pan that involves him changing this handle or diff person claiming same handle and
32e66ea21fc77a44…42ef4cdf…2022-10-03 03:21:58 <asciilifeform> well asciilifeform in fact succeeded in pulling this off w/ (much simpler!) mips
e250ce84afb52fe9…afb52fe9…2022-10-05 20:17:49 <asciilifeform> irc: command "Solemnly" not found: << lol
8f26bd2a32e66ea2…32e66ea2…2022-10-03 03:22:27 <asciilifeform> for anyffin heavier, rapidly devolves to 'lock me in a pyramid for 500yrs' bolix ressurrection
0bb84af545cd8939…45cd8939…2022-11-11 18:56:37 <asciilifeform> ( possibly ~could~ be made to build, but would require 'upgrading' over9000 dep hell )
3986e49ef22ca1b3…f22ca1b3…2022-11-15 15:52:48 <jonsykkel> pg.41 "Incoming Address Casts are only deciphered when the receiver has at least one cold peer, and strictly on a best-effort basis (i.e. when the CPU would otherwise be idle.)" << presumably u still check the seal, to determine whether its for u or not, so know whether to relay
31c04ae68f26bd2a…8f26bd2a…2022-10-03 03:23:22 asciilifeform also did not, must point out, have to bake c compiler for that mips from empty space, either..
73a1122d632c889b…632c889b…2022-10-05 20:24:43 <asciilifeform> looking in awt's client.py, saw 'notice_and_privmsg_handler()', where in fact looks for pest cmds in... privmsg's from ~both~ directions?! wai?!~!
440bcff20bb84af5…0373ef9d…2022-11-11 19:21:28 <signpost> I'll trade ya the webshit depthicket I'm taming today
8664aecc3986e49e…3986e49e…2022-11-15 15:52:52 <jonsykkel> pg.42 "precisely HammerWait milliseconds after the Timestamp" << also requires either perfectly synced clocks, or pestron to keep track of the delta for that peer (but how can it know this has not changed if peer is cold for days etc)
02264fdd31c04ae6…31c04ae6…2022-10-03 03:23:59 <asciilifeform> if had to -- and were enuff of a nut to insist -- would likely still be at it today
b4383d9d02264fdd…1fc77a44…2022-10-03 03:25:43 <phf> afaiu oberon is singificantly simpler than c. the exercise seems to be an equivalent of "implement this subset of pascal, PL/0" but maybe 10x of that
441cd573ea236567…ea236567…2022-10-05 20:27:43 <asciilifeform> phf: if you still have yer hand-cranked pest sender, and can spare the cycles, go ahead and throw a broadcast consisting of '%peer hitler', lessee wathappens
301d7a242e686fbe…df35fe30…2022-11-11 19:33:36 <billymg> some bitcoin legislation being proposed in CR: http://billymg.com/downloads/Crypto-Asset-Market-Law-23415.pdf
ddbe82e70da7c544…1152d590…2022-10-03 03:25:45 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-16 asciilifeform: Opcode Semantics
39ef2a3f441cd573…441cd573…2022-10-05 20:28:40 <asciilifeform> (per asciilifeform's understanding, an empty hitler oughta show up in errybody's wot)
a83d8650301d7a24…301d7a24…2022-11-11 19:33:52 <billymg> overall looks not bad, as far as these things go
49a53da5d1159bf4…d1159bf4…2022-11-15 15:57:41 <jonsykkel> 30min unlikely yes, but for realtime conversation to not molassized will require better than tower clock
1bb147edddbe82e7…b4383d9d…2022-10-03 03:27:02 <phf> there's a lot of this 1000yr machine, that's distinctly not a c-machine in the wirth's world. those guys seem to have a common methadology, of how to .e.g write a vm or a parser or a whatever in a couple of hours.
98a65eba8c56d4fc…8c56d4fc…2022-11-15 15:55:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016256 << nope. simply requires station to wait to transmit until its time is >= last msg's on net
d60772c5d28add28…d28add28…2022-11-15 15:57:10 <asciilifeform> in practice unlikely, if you let yerself drift eventually will start seeing 0 traffic (and no one sees yours)
5e3e31cd49a53da5…49a53da5…2022-11-15 15:59:16 <jonsykkel> or well, maybe tower clock good enuf but how to achieve
b88d2e731bb147ed…1bb147ed…2022-10-03 03:27:32 <phf> so a student of wirth method could probably get an oberon going on any random metal in a matter of hours or days
70a93aef86c6376e…2e686fbe…2022-11-11 19:56:24 asciilifeform tried 'sdl' lib again after ~decade; ~still~ eats 100% of cpu while doing nuffin, lol
d3c771d198a65eba…5ea01dd3…2022-11-15 15:56:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:31 jonsykkel: pg.22 "Note that the NetChain of a Message may not refer to one with a Timestamp greater than its own" << this efectively requires cloks to be synced within seconds, doesnt it. how to know if someone else is fast or you is slow
09afeee9d60772c5…d60772c5…2022-11-15 15:57:27 <asciilifeform> pest requires 'medieval tower clock' level of clock sync.
075f4b4b5e3e31cd…5e3e31cd…2022-11-15 15:59:47 <jonsykkel> i dont remember them being 0termed, but could be wrong
79e6bc5c5e3e31cd…d3c771d1…2022-11-15 16:01:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:34 jonsykkel: pg.23 if pestron 0xFB or earlier encounters such message with all 284bytes used it will interpret the N and potentially the Of+TextHash as part of the utf8 string
65891964b88d2e73…0da7c544…2022-10-03 03:27:45 <asciilifeform> imho the 'scheme-83' folx, or even chuck moore et al, better example of '1000y' fwiw
f32b24bd70a93aef…d9962231…2022-11-11 19:56:25 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-04-12 phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome de
9cc6b236d3c771d1…98a65eba…2022-11-15 15:56:12 <asciilifeform> you dun need to know whether 'he -- fast' or 'you -- slow'
61aaee9b09afeee9…09afeee9…2022-11-15 15:57:35 <asciilifeform> i.e. one practical using sundial if necessary.
56238258546604cc…98531cd2…2022-11-15 16:00:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016257 << nope, cuz strings nulltermed in old spec (tho asciilifeform not 100% read the prototypes, possibly 1 or even both would misinterpret. but if implemented old spec correctly, won't)
95b1b552f32b24bd…70a93aef…2022-11-11 19:56:57 <asciilifeform> in forums: 'it's for games, so of course polls for events and eats 100% cpu, whatcha complaining about'
a09c63ea9cc6b236…9cc6b236…2022-11-15 15:56:33 <asciilifeform> all that's demanded is that timestamps monotonically increase as netchain steps
66d3578b61aaee9b…1356c797…2022-11-15 15:57:54 <signpost> unless the russians or chinese zap gps you've got a passive clock source all around.
86aba9df57dd89bc…57dd89bc…2022-11-15 16:00:36 <jonsykkel> unused set to zero yes, but what if all used
5bf13c0daac8948c…b88d2e73…2022-10-03 03:28:44 <phf> i think wirth people are roughly equivalent. i mean they had p-machine, and the whole PL/0, PL/1, ... bootstrapping strategy decades and decades ago
f992999095b1b552…440bcff2…2022-11-11 20:21:32 <signpost> asciilifeform: https://lvgl.io/ << just found this turd, no idea if any good
f3ede33086aba9df…f0137d57…2022-11-15 16:01:49 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: how do you determined 'all used' in yours if not by looking for a null ?
8eeb57765bf13c0d…5bf13c0d…2022-10-03 03:30:58 <phf> pl/0 was a small pascal introduced in wirth's 1976 algorithms+data structures=programs, which was elsewhere refined to make it a bit more pragmatic. of course there's like 5 people who understand this stack at this point, because, like lisp, it's singificantly lore and groking of specific philosophy, and if i had another l
c56574a5b09dbf4b…61aaee9b…2022-11-15 15:58:22 <asciilifeform> signpost: is precisely same deal as ntp tho -- centralized service
df749cd88b75510e…8b75510e…2022-11-15 16:02:03 <jonsykkel> "324 UString[324] Come to tea. (padded with null bytes.)" << if string is 324bytes, 0term would be 325
7e4da4a0204e75ab…95b1b552…2022-11-11 20:55:23 <asciilifeform> signpost: appears to be for embedded boxen w/ framebuffers (i.e. no support for desktop os and its windows/events/etc)
d5815e49c56574a5…b09dbf4b…2022-11-15 15:58:35 <signpost> it is, but without interdiction specific to you
98531cd2c56574a5…c56574a5…2022-11-15 15:58:35 <asciilifeform> notion is, no such thing needed for pest
2c1e69c2df749cd8…231d3c43…2022-11-15 16:03:30 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: again nope. if not finds a 0, then 324.
8db3367e7c72da34…aac8948c…2022-10-03 03:32:47 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's favoured ada subset is justabout ~pascal. but not esp. fond of it from aesthetic pov
79c5875b7e4da4a0…7e4da4a0…2022-11-11 20:58:33 <asciilifeform> i/o is actually the hard part -- e.g. sdl worx ok for 'gimme a framebuffer to draw into' but eats 100% cpu because 0 support for asynchronous input, it polls 4evah (assumes yer writing a game, so go and poll b/w frames)
8c968117c5bfb57b…3d66b362…2022-11-15 16:02:34 <asciilifeform> signpost: nope. but 'pad with 0' implies 'look for a 0 from 1st element on' neh
9b0b85f9be4e3200…be4e3200…2022-11-15 16:03:27 <jonsykkel> so u can create a message with 324 usable chars, that all must be interpreted
15e8bf272c1e69c2…2c1e69c2…2022-11-15 16:03:41 <asciilifeform> but if 0 at e.g. position 3, then it's a 2-char string. etc
6e1b59cc8db3367e…8db3367e…2022-10-03 03:33:15 <asciilifeform> thing is, just about anyffin ~consistent~ would beat livingshit outta the extant horrors.
ecb81d7a79c5875b…79c5875b…2022-11-11 21:01:28 <asciilifeform> the sheer outrageous idiocy -- wanna write a text editor? pick a frame rate...
231d3c438c968117…8c968117…2022-11-15 16:03:02 <asciilifeform> an oldspec-compliant pestron oughta notice the 0
e43713c89b0b85f9…9b0b85f9…2022-11-15 16:03:50 <jonsykkel> and this message will not have a 0terminator on the wire
c73a3c51ecb81d7a…ecb81d7a…2022-11-11 21:01:50 <asciilifeform> and either yer eating 100% of cpu polling, or might miss a key press.
db36cfcce43713c8…c5bfb57b…2022-11-15 16:04:51 <signpost> probs benefits from explicit "if encountered zero -or- end-of-field" statement to remove ambiguity, especially since field termination is such a dangerous thing
e5b9b247e43713c8…e43713c8…2022-11-15 16:09:29 <jonsykkel> its not expensive if u do it in the obvious way, storing bit array directly in log, but then u get problem of wat to do if delete peer, go through entire log from start and update all? but then the info is gone
61019823f668d541…f668d541…2022-10-03 03:34:18 asciilifeform has (or had? maybe threw) buncha '80s crapple 'developer' lit, where ~all examples pascalistic. at one time was the party line there
99e41706c73a3c51…c73a3c51…2022-11-11 21:05:46 <asciilifeform> fwiw sdl offers a 'waitevent', but it locks up the proggy entirely until event happens (e.g. can't display a new line in a chat, or whatnot, while it sits in the blocking wait, as the guism is 1threaded)
e79576c5db36cfcc…15e8bf27…2022-11-15 16:05:31 <asciilifeform> nao wat's missing is a mandatory 0 in 'chunk' in 4.2.2.
7d0a47ec61019823…7c72da34…2022-10-03 03:34:40 <phf> too late! you need to 13GB of disk, and as much ram, to boot the winner of machine wars: THE JAVASCRIPT MACHINE
7e66682b5a7f0509…5a7f0509…2022-10-05 22:08:19 <phf> well, i sent a bunch of stuff, let me know if anything landed…
b975a1de99e41706…99e41706…2022-11-11 21:06:22 <asciilifeform> near as asciilifeform can tell, thing is an instance where someone 'solved' crossplatformism by ~not actually doing the hard parts~
f34886329b67be06…db36cfcc…2022-11-15 16:13:22 <signpost> do you necessarily want to delete history when you delete a peer?
040544869b67be06…9b67be06…2022-11-15 16:15:44 <jonsykkel> probably not, but u will have references to peers that dont exist anymore. how to handle this on the disk has annoying problems imo
8a0086c4b975a1de…b975a1de…2022-11-11 21:14:28 asciilifeform found that erry single 'sits on opengl' and similar framebuffer ui lib -- demands an event loop, and suffers from this retardation
6eda0a22f3488632…f3488632…2022-11-15 16:13:39 <signpost> I can think of people I'd have unpeered in the past but still wanted to retain history of interaction.
81f0453d04054486…04054486…2022-11-15 16:16:06 <jonsykkel> its nice for example to be able to store each msg in log as constant size thing
9c25421d68d55e82…ddbe82e7…2022-10-03 03:35:25 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-17 asciilifeform: http://www.retroarchive.org/swag << proper archive.
0336feb58a0086c4…8a0086c4…2022-11-11 21:15:12 <asciilifeform> likely because to ~not~ commit this atrocity, requires support for os callbacks, which aint in any sense whatsoever standardized and 'do you have 20 years to spare'
dabf6c9e6eda0a22…6eda0a22…2022-11-15 16:14:05 <signpost> damnatio memoriae is a distinct choice from unpeering imho
fce14b1e81f0453d…dabf6c9e…2022-11-15 16:18:29 <signpost> beneficial for multiple reasons to not consider a hearsay the same message as a canonical message from that peer.
8b1c03a39c25421d…7d0a47ec…2022-10-03 03:36:45 <phf> isn't your favorite DERIVE written in turbopascal? :>
e8ba9b1bcceacf92…cceacf92…2022-10-05 22:15:20 <phf> awt, can you paste client.py, so i can see how to construct a malicious payload :)
2abdaa0d0336feb5…0336feb5…2022-11-11 23:56:12 asciilifeform like complete idjit, spent hrs looking for workaround re sdl. there aint one. and even 'waitevent' apparently implemented as busywait in current ver.
b0e9ef1926593311…26593311…2022-11-15 16:06:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016258 << if it's a hearsay, oughta store from whom got it. and nfi wai 'expensive'
c96d097ffce14b1e…fce14b1e…2022-11-15 16:19:02 <signpost> if you store them all distinctly you have from what to calc stats on message propagation on your network
a362ef8286c50b92…86c50b92…2022-11-15 16:25:54 <jonsykkel> supose can solve by having internal peer id that is big enuf so never gets reused. and then messages not constant size on disk. and then delete peer = mark as deleted rather than removing anythning
01c322b58b1c03a3…68d55e82…2022-10-03 03:37:30 <asciilifeform> phf: afaik the frontend was! (the engine was 'mulisp' + a compiled bytecode turd for same)
c85cd477e8ba9b1b…7cb46496…2022-10-05 22:18:11 <awt> Lol. Sure but if the net gets nuked, I won't be able to fix it until likely after Oct. 15th
1be7bcae2abdaa0d…2abdaa0d…2022-11-11 23:58:49 <asciilifeform> re wx & wt -- there aint anyffin resembling working ada bindings, and prolly aint gonna be -- wx implemented as pile of cpp macros, while qt (multi-GB monster) demands not only cpp but own preprocessor.
b04dcf16b0e9ef19…79e6bc5c…2022-11-15 16:07:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:37 jonsykkel: pg.29 re "store list of peers from whom recved a min bounce copy" wats the purpose of storing this info forever? im thinking it will be somewat computationally annoying to handle if for example unpeer. shoudl this info be retained in log if this happens (former peer cant be uniquely
4455d53501c322b5…01c322b5…2022-10-03 03:38:11 <asciilifeform> frontend 'typeset' (in ascii graphic) the maffs
01263cf8b04dcf16…b0e9ef19…2022-11-15 16:06:45 <asciilifeform> that way also not require an in-memory buffer for incomings. send info straight to disk.
8486207d483d9734…7a090834…2022-11-15 16:32:22 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: how to index is a job for db (and imho not in scope of spec)
63bd539bb49d1342…b49d1342…2022-11-12 01:30:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015981 << "i bought a compressor and a pneumatic hammer, but it doesn't work for nailing boards together. it says `hammer` in the name!"
532ee1a499a1fba8…139eb329…2022-11-15 16:32:57 <asciilifeform> ( and in such a way that adding/removing peers is o(1) rather than some kinda nightmare )
507f7caa99a1fba8…99a1fba8…2022-11-15 16:36:19 <jonsykkel> yep, was specifically re the "only deciphered when etc etc..", check seal but no decipher unless this peer is cold
573b57923ca507c4…4455d535…2022-10-03 03:39:42 asciilifeform to this day impressed w/ ye olde 'derive', did ~95% of what 'macsyma' did, and not needed multiyear grant at lulministry
5b1cfc9b63bd539b…36ba62b2…2022-11-12 01:31:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 16:00:00 asciilifeform[crawlerbot]: i/o is actually the hard part -- e.g. sdl worx ok for 'gimme a framebuffer to draw into' but eats 100% cpu because 0 support for asynchronous input, it polls 4evah (assumes yer writing a game, so go and poll b/w frames)
114ad3ab532ee1a4…532ee1a4…2022-11-15 16:34:08 <asciilifeform> ... and ideally so to leave all history intact. machine knows what ye peers were at time t.
4f3ac603573b5792…573b5792…2022-10-03 03:41:06 <asciilifeform> ( still 'state of art' in opensores symbolicmaffs afaik )
8595d46c5b1cfc9b…63bd539b…2022-11-12 01:42:01 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015982 << why no write text editor with unity 3d? half-life engine? minecraft red stone is in fact turing complete, can also write text editor with that
7a0908345519813d…5519813d…2022-11-15 16:09:14 asciilifeform must bbl, will answer the remaining observations
77204ba2114ad3ab…114ad3ab…2022-11-15 16:35:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016261 << you relay unless it's for you, naturally
e4e67ad481eb42e3…81eb42e3…2022-11-15 16:37:14 <jonsykkel> well, u have the delta + the propagation delay from flood routing
2e2e22a181eb42e3…f0d4d6da…2022-11-15 16:37:54 <asciilifeform> if he aint cold, then he won't send you addrcast, neh
1049b5e84f3ac603…9c25421d…2022-10-03 03:41:06 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-01-04 asciilifeform: (state of the art in open sores world is still macsyma, circa 1975)
a75fdf208595d46c…5b1cfc9b…2022-11-12 01:43:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 16:02:34 asciilifeform[4]: the sheer outrageous idiocy -- wanna write a text editor? pick a frame rate...
847f1a5177204ba2…b04dcf16…2022-11-15 16:36:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:45 jonsykkel: pg.41 "Incoming Address Casts are only deciphered when the receiver has at least one cold peer, and strictly on a best-effort basis (i.e. when the CPU would otherwise be idle.)" << presumably u still check the seal, to determine whether its for u or not, so know whether to relay
d9d849342e2e22a1…2e2e22a1…2022-11-15 16:38:06 <asciilifeform> (if he does, he has broken pestron and tough cookies for him)
c5407fbb1049b5e8…4f3ac603…2022-10-03 03:41:39 asciilifeform at one time dug up what was left of macsyma and put to use in anger in a saltmine
c8af6570847f1a51…77204ba2…2022-11-15 16:35:10 <asciilifeform> (if it aint for you, you dun know for whom it is)
db0fa0772bef5415…d9d84934…2022-11-15 16:38:36 <asciilifeform> likely to be ~= for both addrcasts aha
e915a336c5407fbb…3ca507c4…2022-10-03 03:42:18 <phf> maxima is still being actively updated, but i've not had a chance to see what manner of code that is
ae3145f4217a6ab8…217a6ab8…2022-11-12 01:43:51 <asciilifeform> phf: 'sdl' aint exactly 'minecraft', is rather framebuffer thing (used in qemu, bochs, even parker's cadr emulator, and over9000 simple 2d gamez), so naturally thought 'hm, if can stomach manually drawing letters, could use sdl'
2d9d9fb1c8af6570…c8af6570…2022-11-15 16:35:21 <asciilifeform> and it's a broadcast, so unless bounce maxed out, you relay.
4c053398e915a336…e915a336…2022-10-03 03:43:29 <phf> it doesn't look like purely maggot code, because it'll be meaty updates to like (defun back-propagate-bernoulli-m4 ...) and shit like that
eded73c23e483a9a…1a96d126…2022-10-05 22:32:33 <awt> Lol currently downloading a docker image on my cel in fiat world.
2bdbb725ae3145f4…ae3145f4…2022-11-12 01:44:26 <asciilifeform> but apparently mandatorily busywaits (why? asciilifeform not knows. esp. given that afaik all current os offer event signals)
215a43fa2d9d9fb1…2d9d9fb1…2022-11-15 16:36:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016262 << nope. you always have the delta, because nobody will go straight to hammer, 1st need to try prod (addrcast type 1)
e4bcc7a93c6949ba…3c6949ba…2022-11-15 16:39:05 <jonsykkel> though the actual hammering occurs not through the same indirect route
ba4b0f214c053398…c5407fbb…2022-10-03 03:43:51 <asciilifeform> the 1 asciilifeform unearthed was iirc circa ~1980 but commonlispized
5930ec262bdbb725…2bdbb725…2022-11-12 01:46:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015991 << to run w/ the analogy, neither pneumatic nor ordinary hammer is anywhere to be found, all that's avail. is a chunk of rock w/out anyffin resembling a flat face one could hammer with
5e87cd6d215a43fa…847f1a51…2022-11-15 16:37:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:50 jonsykkel: pg.42 "precisely HammerWait milliseconds after the Timestamp" << also requires either perfectly synced clocks, or pestron to keep track of the delta for that peer (but how can it know this has not changed if peer is cold for days etc)
ad3067805930ec26…a75fdf20…2022-11-12 01:47:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 20:31:14 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015981 << "i bought a compressor and a pneumatic hammer, but it doesn't work for nailing boards together. it says `hammer` in the name!"
fdbfef6971a6b71f…71a6b71f…2022-11-15 16:41:54 <jonsykkel> but might as well have been, "start hammering immediately when recv", no? hammerwait doesnt do anything useful unless im missing something
de701244ad306780…5930ec26…2022-11-12 01:47:50 <asciilifeform> i.e. near as asciilifeform currently knows, there's 0 cross-platform way to get a chunk of screen one could draw in + a sane (rather than polling idiocy) handler of kbd, mouse, timer, etc.
378e9ba4dec53a8f…dec53a8f…2022-11-15 16:36:55 <asciilifeform> on top of this, not need perfectly aligned hammers to work
054b4848fdbfef69…330870df…2022-11-15 16:43:43 <asciilifeform> maybe no point in the delay. needs thought
9c186755fdbfef69…fdbfef69…2022-11-15 16:55:58 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: no im satisfied for now, tanks!
db018cca1e6248ee…cc9f6d0f…2022-10-03 03:44:30 <phf> ah, yeah, the last mit release, before symbolics claimed the whole thing
48334d324d7141f6…4d7141f6…2022-10-05 22:35:56 <phf> test
:asciilifeform PRIVMSG #pest :i eata da poopoo
264e6ac2de701244…8595d46c…2022-11-12 01:47:58 <phf> sdl makes most sense in the context of games, because it supports all the different time slicing strategies that the games require. imho using it for "portable framebuffer" is a sideeffect, in which case should follow "display" strategy: program runs at own clock speed, is aware of display clock, periodically feeds display
f0d4d6da378e9ba4…378e9ba4…2022-11-15 16:37:02 <asciilifeform> if not 100% aligned, will simply take longer
1f1009f7054b4848…054b4848…2022-11-15 16:45:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016321 << is absolutely essential to 1) distinguish'em 2) show who / how many peers relayed 3) able to update if immediate (or simply lower-bounce) copy arrives
04a54552db018cca…1e6248ee…2022-10-03 03:44:55 asciilifeform at the time was doin' time in a darpa-powered lulzmine where orders were to 'canhaz auto-determinator of algo complexity when algo given in such-such format'
ed693c8948334d32…48334d32…2022-10-05 22:36:14 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013959 << it's official
b676cafc1f1009f7…5e87cd6d…2022-11-15 16:46:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 11:19:31 signpost: beneficial for multiple reasons to not consider a hearsay the same message as a canonical message from that peer.
d28813e135a1923c…ad07d6e3…2022-11-15 17:20:07 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. finds: a trimmed-down ada compiler. ( asciilifeform not tried )
fc091c1e35a1923c…35a1923c…2022-11-22 05:55:01 <jonsykkel> frebsd xorg-server 1.20 also gives 'Connection reply indicated failure.'
48fa98ba04a54552…04a54552…2022-10-03 03:45:21 <asciilifeform> ^ no prizes for pointing out 'bbut halting problem'
e2dc05b3ed693c89…2c716063…2022-10-05 22:37:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 18:36:43 asciilifeform: i eata da poopoo
7d75a5eafddb58d7…de701244…2022-11-12 01:48:25 <asciilifeform> phf: evidently is how intended to be used.
ded7f280fddb58d7…e6cbbd6d…2022-11-12 01:50:33 <asciilifeform> phf: 'feed display periodically' is obv. inescapable no matter how one framebuffers. but does 0 against sdl's idiocy of eating 100% cpu simply to know when a key was pressed.
4fff4a1fb676cafc…1f1009f7…2022-11-15 16:56:00 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: lemme know if answrd errything or missed any
da0d5987c641c8ec…b676cafc…2022-11-15 16:58:41 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-11-15 lobbes: happy to see you are still fighting the Good Fight. I apologize for letting my logs die; I plan to get those back up after I digest the Pest documentation and get my own station up and running.
e6cbbd6d7d75a5ea…7d75a5ea…2022-11-12 01:48:56 <asciilifeform> leaves q of 'how the fuq to get a framebuffer w/out churning out 3 os-specific piles o'shit' entirely open.
e855ecb5ded7f280…ded7f280…2022-11-12 01:51:04 <asciilifeform> (if there's a lib similar to sdl but with sane thread yielding, asciilifeform not found it yet.)
e21a6362da0d5987…da0d5987…2022-11-15 16:58:41 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-11-15 lobbes: Along the lines of letting my tools rust, I let krankendenken.com expire and some chinese squatter has gobbled it up. My blog still lives, however, at my old domain name (this one I renewed until 2027): http://www.lobbesblog.com/
9e21c63a6b1b8abe…6b1b8abe…2022-11-15 17:21:02 <asciilifeform> 'The available Ada language subset supported by HAC is so far, roughly, the "Pascal subset", plus tasking, plus packages, less pointers.'
d6e8e4a3af2a18bf…af2a18bf…2022-11-22 06:35:05 <jonsykkel> 'Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key' is what the server replyds if u read the eror mesage
3714857c6bc69d7f…48fa98ba…2022-10-03 03:48:15 <asciilifeform> the thing, in turn, was outgrowth of a brain-melting pile of 'meta' bureaucracy, where 'ministry of lulz is swamped with claims of homomorphic cryptosystem; how to help evaluators evaluate'em'
60877c146bc69d7f…6bc69d7f…2022-10-03 03:48:15 <phf> one can still make some kind of useful claims even if you have "there be dragons" states
44d97e78f30f5659…ed693c89…2022-10-05 22:38:13 <phf> kek
:w̴͚̃ì̵̡̭̖n̷͉̼͐͜ţ̸̬͊̐͑͜e̴̡͎̮͌r̸̗̺̈́m̵̥̄u̶̹̳̿͂ͅt̸͔͆̍e̶̤͗͠ PRIVMSG #pest :we are the loa of the machine
604751c5e855ecb5…e855ecb5…2022-11-12 01:53:15 <asciilifeform> parker -- and authors of over9000 other emulators -- evidently also did not know.
9dc4791ce21a6362…c641c8ec…2022-11-15 17:03:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016254 << correct. (can discuss whether Right Thing)
c4ea1f0c9e21c63a…9e21c63a…2022-11-15 17:21:24 <asciilifeform> 'From a different perspective, HAC supports Ada 83, less pointers, less generics, less unconstrained types, plus a few items from later Ada versions: 95, 2005, 2012 and 2022.'
76ed72f044d97e78…96d202a0…2022-10-05 22:45:07 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013916 << yup, afaik am only peer to busybot mebbe should expand a bit.
f94bdaaa604751c5…604751c5…2022-11-12 01:53:50 <asciilifeform> among other things, makes so that using 1 of these proggies on a lappy, runs down battery in <hr
d1b953809dc4791c…e21a6362…2022-11-15 17:04:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:27 jonsykkel: pg.22 "any Message where Speaker is not equal to its own" << so if change handle, one resets chain to 0?
5f2d19aec4ea1f0c…c4ea1f0c…2022-11-15 17:22:06 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's reading, oughta (theoretically) build e.g. ffa.
910c2c155b6a00fa…cce26835…2022-10-03 03:49:18 asciilifeform did the obv thing and redefined the 'problem' into a 'solvable' one, then 'solved', fin
2055c6f176ed72f0…29664239…2022-10-05 22:45:26 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: peer us a hitler, iwanna see whether %s work
63aaad2576ed72f0…e2dc05b3…2022-10-05 22:46:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 15:28:42 signpost: is your bot only connected through your personal node?
e8916fd3f94bdaaa…fddb58d7…2022-11-12 01:55:20 <phf> asciilifeform, but eating 100% cpu is what games do: pollevents is called at tick, the rest of the tick time is filled with various useful work, physics, rendering, etc.
ad07d6e3d1b95380…9dc4791c…2022-11-15 17:03:47 <asciilifeform> notion is, selfchain oughta represent history of a given handle, from pov of erryone tuned in
6f2ff7fc5f2d19ae…5f2d19ae…2022-11-15 17:22:25 <asciilifeform> signpost ^ may find interesting from 'foundational linux' pov.
8022ac63daa1726f…daa1726f…2022-11-22 06:41:53 <jonsykkel> wtf is this line fatal_write(state->socket_fd, xauth_cookie + xauth_len - 16, 16);
2ce13bef910c2c15…910c2c15…2022-10-03 03:50:05 asciilifeform ended up even sitting on committee, which was experience straight outta film 'brazil'
eb467cec6f2ff7fc…6f2ff7fc…2022-11-15 17:22:42 <asciilifeform> seems like a possible equiv. of 'tcc' for ada.
88b095fa2ce13bef…2ce13bef…2022-10-03 03:50:42 <asciilifeform> ( for the stars of the show -- perhaps from kafka )
c350dabfe5efc91e…76ed72f0…2022-10-05 23:04:30 <shinohai> Weirdly am no longer seeing jonsykkel 's messages AT ALL :(
d7c8e7e9beb6d3d9…beb6d3d9…2022-11-12 01:56:02 <asciilifeform> (tho seems that having to cut the physics etc. into x msec ticks would be a pain in own right)
0ec96ed2eb467cec…f44b95ed…2022-11-15 18:27:28 <signpost> nice, will pop it in pentacle and see if it builds. oughta
33ab4b2245c0697a…45c0697a…2022-11-22 06:45:26 <jonsykkel> it worx if i manualy put the offset of last field of first xauthroity entry, rather than last entry like the prog dose
3038684388b095fa…5b6a00fa…2022-10-03 03:50:56 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-12-27#1759220 there is in fact a convergence point of the last few threads
995cf311c350dabf…c350dabf…2022-10-05 23:04:36 <shinohai> Only knew he is online because comparing logs atm
865962b6d7c8e7e9…e8916fd3…2022-11-12 01:56:48 <phf> right, there are strategies there. total time budget, step budget, separate thread, that kind of stuff
bd7f987f0ec96ed2…0ec96ed2…2022-11-15 18:37:42 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cavi << yup, worked out of the box by popping "gnatmake -P hac" in a pbuild
a8ece89833ab4b22…33ab4b22…2022-11-22 06:49:02 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/up/f3xf0dlu/20221122_074950.png
f55c585c30386843…4abf803d…2022-10-03 03:51:43 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-12-27 phf: early tex papers knuth talks about putting this or that formula into macsyma, but then from some point he fully switches to mathematica. breaks me heart
1f5091f030386843…c9d54aef…2022-10-03 23:06:25 <shinohai> jonsykkel, crtdaydreams are only two others whom I need to rekey with (and phf if he wishes to do so).
49bf6cf6a8ece898…a8ece898…2022-11-22 06:51:36 <jonsykkel> https://github.com/lagggal/X11-headers/blob/master/Xauth.h#L38
5ef2c01d94ad83a9…94ad83a9…2022-11-12 01:57:37 <asciilifeform> what there isn't, there, is a way to make proggy displaying a mostly static screen, not eat 100% cpu.
b34f471249bf6cf6…49bf6cf6…2022-11-22 06:53:51 <jonsykkel> that file apers to just be an aray of these
e57083e2bfbc9495…bfbc9495…2022-10-03 03:51:33 <asciilifeform> then again whoknows just with what baked
f9e10347105b1274…105b1274…2022-10-04 00:17:38 <shinohai> jonsykkel, crtdaydreams nm I think I managed to extract yer keys from hosed db
c4b82eb65ef2c01d…865962b6…2022-11-12 01:59:03 <phf> my point is mostly that sdl goes back to ol' linux days, when people like icculus were porting wolfenstein 3d and duke 3d to linux, so the library supposed to fill a very specific niche. in fact i've not seen it used for "portable framebuffer" until quite recently (5-10 years ago), when freesoftware people stopped producin
dde5912e64fc0a73…64fc0a73…2022-11-15 18:42:56 <asciilifeform> ( also, seems like is bytecode rather than native compiler ? )
297a4a36b34f4712…b34f4712…2022-11-22 06:58:01 <jonsykkel> also usefuL https://www.x.org/releases/current/doc/xproto/x11protocol.html#Encoding::Connection_Setup
bf68e6dce57083e2…30386843…2022-10-03 03:52:14 <phf> he's definitely using tex for taocp, but not macsyma anymore
c6fc0db0c4b82eb6…c4b82eb6…2022-11-12 01:59:03 <phf> g new code, and old code got shoehorned into all kinds of weird use-cases by wreckers
983ce1f3297a4a36…297a4a36…2022-11-28 16:22:14 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1016953 << this was re the initial version of new pdf spec, where no explicit 0terminator between messsage Chunk and N+Of
4fc64ddbd976cb5c…d976cb5c…2022-10-04 00:27:59 <asciilifeform> ( or is this the 'duplicate handle' thing from earlier , which also afflicts asciilifeform's under 9973 ..? )
c2c99e4cc6fc0db0…db382def…2022-11-12 02:02:49 <asciilifeform> (sdl also without 'widgets', asciilifeform already made peace with having to '80s gui)
2cb488646504c824…bd7f987f…2022-11-15 18:49:07 <signpost> looks like a self-build happened at the beginning of gallery.adb, but will have to look more closely later
0f0f5b20983ce1f3…983ce1f3…2022-11-28 16:22:44 <jonsykkel> since fixed in this here item http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016431
3fb54e29983ce1f3…59d0a3af…2022-11-28 16:24:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 11:19:38 asciilifeform[4]: phf: notion was that old clients will eat'em as standard msgs. lemme know if dope (not tried experimentally, and jonsykkel suggested that his may not, tho can't presently recall why)
0f3e28d292283a2d…bf68e6dc…2022-10-03 03:52:33 <phf> in fact his "famous" fvwm screenshot got cli mathematica on it :(
ef80648a4fc64ddb…f9e10347…2022-10-04 00:30:16 <shinohai> It was running under 9973 but think simple explanation is sdcard failure. Did manage to recover most of it tho.
393d203c3973b4d4…c6fc0db0…2022-11-12 01:59:50 <phf> in fact real use-case for sdl was getting tux racer working on a nokia phone or something
fa73f360c2c99e4c…93fef6f7…2022-11-12 02:04:18 <phf> i'm sure there's a lot of these (probably similar amiga or dos ports where source was available), but the only project that comes to mind for doing gui with sdl is grafx2
7a9627b82cb48864…6504c824…2022-11-15 18:52:34 asciilifeform admits, amazed that it built. so far encountered ~0 public ada proggies which built w/out any coughing
8cdd46120f0f5b20…3fb54e29…2022-11-28 16:24:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 23:02:17 asciilifeform[6]: updated pre-draft pest spec with jonsykkel's correction & coupla others.
36a700320f0f5b20…0f0f5b20…2022-11-28 16:35:48 <jonsykkel> i agre no good reason to introduce permanent kludges for bakcwards compatibilty with early prototypes
7220bf4d393d203c…3973b4d4…2022-11-12 02:00:09 <asciilifeform> seemed to asciilifeform to be 'best horse in glue factory', was all.
93ab4faafa73f360…fa73f360…2022-11-12 02:04:26 <phf> http://grafx2.chez.com/index.php?static2/screenshots
66b835f27a9627b8…7a9627b8…2022-11-15 18:53:02 <asciilifeform> ... well, maybe the serpent lib. errything larger than that -- coughed
3f67ad5036a70032…36a70032…2022-11-28 16:35:55 <jonsykkel> royal decree 48bit ipv4 in 1995 and ignore short term consequences wwould have saved a lot of truble
a5584a5b487dc7ba…affaa908…2022-11-28 16:28:29 <shinohai> *asciilifeform is now known as gabriel_ladell ...
8ab85fce7220bf4d…7220bf4d…2022-11-12 02:01:18 <asciilifeform> evidently will have to open x11 manuals from 1980s and 'eat elephant' (and then for other os similarly)
766f89d193ab4faa…c2c99e4c…2022-11-12 02:05:17 <asciilifeform> right, drawing scrollbars etc. aint the hard part.
8b15a61a12de7d35…12de7d35…2022-11-28 16:24:39 <asciilifeform> currently nfi re behaviour of blatta re subj, tho
e35c91f63f67ad50…f0143253…2022-11-28 16:38:49 <phf> “According to legend, Stu Feldman didn’t fix make’s syntax, after he real- ized that the syntax was broken, because he already had 10 users.
561aacdd3f67ad50…3f67ad50…2022-11-28 17:13:44 <jonsykkel> if gonna klugde might as well dispense with the uniturd and make 1byte Z and immediately 1byte turd after
723626496f59ac6d…0f3e28d2…2022-10-03 03:53:35 <phf> https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/screen.jpeg
93fef6f78ab85fce…393d203c…2022-11-12 02:01:49 <phf> but then also have to write your own widget library
961cdabe766f89d1…93ab4faa…2022-11-12 02:05:18 <phf> which spends a lot of code lines on rendering gradients, and custom fonts, and buttons, and such
b1b8a54f8b15a61a…8b15a61a…2022-11-28 16:25:23 <asciilifeform> phf does have strong point, if we carry on with this kind of thing, will end up with 'x86' pile of ???
3efed8e5561aacdd…561aacdd…2022-11-28 17:14:55 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: i mean u simply begin the chunk where Mark is now
9cbbff30561aacdd…2ed98d7d…2022-11-28 17:15:10 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: how would that be compat with old pestrons?
3a305b499a2e7bd0…5729309f…2022-11-28 16:28:56 <phf> that's how the protocol can potentially look right now, in declerative lisp form http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jnZx
e793681f86b83051…0240e48b…2022-10-04 13:56:42 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-03#1013785 << thx again signpost, knobs set and bot station updated.
db382def93fef6f7…8ab85fce…2022-11-12 02:02:11 <asciilifeform> hypothetically, bolix-style fixed font and line graphics aint worst possible world
48a18592961cdabe…766f89d1…2022-11-12 02:05:41 asciilifeform could live w/out gradients & '3d' buttons etc
a53171965abcf6dd…11781ae9…2022-11-15 18:57:32 signpost also needs to get a site up for pentacle, because it was trivial to drop the thing in and build. no reason I shouldn't have posted a vpatch of hac in the same sitting.
892e9fe0b1b8a54f…b1b8a54f…2022-11-28 16:25:48 <asciilifeform> alternative tho is also quite ugh, in other direction
ade7b7453efed8e5…3efed8e5…2022-11-28 17:15:30 <jonsykkel> then newer trons will just look for special value immediately after the 0terminator
09b21b559cbbff30…9cbbff30…2022-11-28 17:15:24 <asciilifeform> yea it wont choke, but won't print either
e76e782b3a305b49…9a2e7bd0…2022-11-28 16:29:44 <asciilifeform> neato phf, is this from your current pestron ?
2e280746e793681f…cf4581ce…2022-10-04 13:57:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-03 18:35:00 signpost: shinohai: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009305
c2019abb48a18592…48a18592…2022-11-12 02:07:04 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform was looking for was minimum : get a framebuffer, capture window resizes, kbd press/release, mouse coords / buttons (and via interrupts rather than poll). from there -- could start.
69d1f80ea5317196…5abcf6dd…2022-11-15 18:58:58 <asciilifeform> '...the report that FTX pushed a malicious OTA update to users mobile devices around midnight on a Friday; this update appears to have exfiltrated users’ private keys, meaning that the funds were stolen off of the users’ devices. Rather than just turning off the lights and freezing the accounts without explanation,..'
cd0e19264f7ad968…4f7ad968…2022-11-28 17:01:31 <phf> well, if nothing else the kludge works. this is a valid "multipart" message with n=1 of of=1 4=ʄٶo-ALNu$`n@.*
c9ed0107ade7b745…ade7b745…2022-11-28 17:16:02 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: indeed but iirc old specs had 0padding
bde53acdade7b745…6147e461…2022-11-28 17:16:30 <phf> one could do Chunk Z N Of TextHash Mark, and you only need mark in case "old pestrons" don't pad their text with zero
a97d72e9f32d46e0…6498f9fd…2022-10-03 03:54:46 <asciilifeform> ( was expecting it'd be at least of last ~decade, which nominally shits tex )
0f974d25c2019abb…961cdabe…2022-11-12 02:07:14 <phf> asciilifeform, quirky gui is a mandatory feature of "comfy" replacements for modern technology. gotta have that retro appeal
f91a713c69d1f80e…69d1f80e…2022-11-15 18:59:12 <asciilifeform> '...FTX appears to have literally stolen customers money in something that is more analagous to a breaking-and-entering. Some people have reported that FTX attempted to drain their bank accounts via Circle, which may or may not be true but will likely be underdiscussed' etc
5729309f6d003872…fd1eeb88…2022-11-28 16:26:16 <phf> asciilifeform, the reason why its a kludge though, is that you have a declarative wire format, driven by (case command (#x00 ...)) for both packing and unpacking. now you have to kludge a new mechanism of differentiation where also check "but wait, does that region have special value?"
c48fc020cd0e1926…82ba38ef…2022-11-28 17:03:09 <asciilifeform> hm the 'nonprintable' turd shows in log
a2e64ec5bde53acd…09b21b55…2022-11-28 17:16:36 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: problem with 'mark after Z' is that random padding after Z may end up == to the mark
2662ba93ed77cd9c…ed77cd9c…2022-11-28 16:30:36 <phf> gives me, (MAKE-RED-PACKET :COMMAND 0 :SPEAKER NICK :TIMESTAMP TIMESTAMP :SELFCHAIN SELFCHAIN :NETCHAIN NETCHAIN :TEXT TEXT)
96d2191311fea413…86b83051…2022-10-04 15:18:29 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 24 minutes and 6 seconds
1554e3f25729309f…6d003872…2022-11-28 16:26:42 <asciilifeform> phf: is the exact reason it's a kludge, yes
cba4d860c48fc020…8cdd4612…2022-11-28 17:04:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 11:58:12 phf[awt]: test
b2fe92cdc48fc020…a5584a5b…2022-11-28 17:17:23 <shinohai> phf `MAKE-RED-PACKET` isn't being very inclusive to all the other colors out there.
d9fbfe0410a869be…50d15be7…2022-11-28 17:21:27 asciilifeform strongly inclined to throw out the kludge, but will wait for folx to beat subj to death
270bf95110a869be…10a869be…2022-11-28 17:26:45 <jonsykkel> put new comand for broadcasts with multipartism, ignore old 0x00s, plus emit "ur pestron is old plz run windows update" 0x00 every 5 sec until nobody in net uses old progs
6cd910d4a2e64ec5…a2e64ec5…2022-11-28 17:16:46 <asciilifeform> (on ordinary non-multi packet of the correct length)
f86c39bc85de02a3…85de02a3…2022-10-03 03:55:05 asciilifeform would also not be surprised if were ~current~ screenshit
aa18133396d21913…3a90f800…2022-10-04 19:32:08 <phf> to the previous thread http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-02#1013744 volume 4 pre-fascicle 7a https://cs.stanford.edu/~knuth/fasc7a.ps.gz says, unsurprisingly, that it's from fasc7a.dvi, TeX output 2022.08.01:1918
. converted with dvips
e53eddac5204da40…a5317196…2022-11-15 19:00:01 <signpost> the timing of this and zelensky suddenly wanting to negotiate is another entertaining "coincidence"
2fef97891554e3f2…1554e3f2…2022-11-28 16:27:57 <asciilifeform> precisely in the style of x64's auto-zeroing of upper halves of long regs on MOV etc
50d15be7b2fe92cd…6cd910d4…2022-11-28 17:17:37 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: ~new~ proposed spec has random padding tho, and may issue an unintended multipart mark if sending with the correct length, under your scheme
a956370dd9fbfe04…d9fbfe04…2022-11-28 17:22:19 <asciilifeform> the obv cost is fragging of the net; bots will need swapping, folx on ancient versions (mod6?) will see some msgs and not others, etc
e504254216aa9b10…2662ba93…2022-11-28 16:31:08 <phf> or … (string-equal (red-packet-speaker p) nick) …
a3939a66aa181333…2e280746…2022-10-04 19:33:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 23:52:21 asciilifeform[6]: then again whoknows just with what baked
0a5a6bf74ce9bdac…24963c00…2022-11-12 02:08:34 <asciilifeform> the only 'modernities' that aint imho escapable are uniturds (ok if no 'ligatures', fuck the savages who need'em, render a uniturd font to bitmaps 1ce during compile) and drag/drop/cut/paste. errything else -- can live without
2fb176e1e53eddac…e53eddac…2022-11-15 19:00:13 <signpost> and xi and biden deciding they're special buddies again.
1d46cbe5a956370d…a956370d…2022-11-28 17:27:14 <asciilifeform> thinking about it, theoretically mark ~could~ go after Z, and new-style pestron emitting classical single-part msg would then need to terminate'em with (0)(anything-but-mark)(random..) but still ugh
ee169f1558de956d…2181673e…2022-11-28 17:36:15 <phf> well, i added support for your kludge to my defwire http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Ifgb it's possibly better even without kludge
ab57b2b003034f60…03034f60…2022-11-30 21:36:57 <jonsykkel> yes i corupertd my db cuz runned out of space on vps
82ba38efe5042542…16aa9b10…2022-11-28 16:31:41 asciilifeform as presently understands, there's only 2 possible answers to 'how to multipart' -- a) the pictured one, where kludge; b) the clean one, where new codes, and old pestrons end up ignoring long msgs
15e828baa40563af…f32d46e0…2022-10-03 03:55:17 <phf> we've had a conversation where guy has been using a mac since forever
beb8fa4d0a5a6bf7…4ce9bdac…2022-11-12 02:11:03 <phf> i haven't flushed it out yet, but my current approach with genera pest is to have own utf-8 decoder, that figures out what unicode code point, and then either translit, mapping to supported characters, or punt
f98aefb5ee169f15…ee169f15…2022-11-28 17:36:53 <phf> can now say (make-red-packet :type :broadcast-text :text "hello, world" …)
93da5f2982ba38ef…e5042542…2022-11-28 16:33:54 <phf> in fact (make-red-packet :command 0 :speaker "joe" :timestamp (get-universal-time) :selfchain 0 :netchain 0 :text "hello, world" :bounces 1)
ff16e34fbeb8fa4d…0a5a6bf7…2022-11-12 02:11:57 <asciilifeform> naively seems to asciilifeform that it'd be rather like pest on 386, in re: the actual packet-eating/decipherment
4605f62b946276fd…2fb176e1…2022-11-15 19:00:48 <signpost> entirely possible CZ just executed successful hybrid warfare on behalf of chicoms.
62eea28af98aefb5…f98aefb5…2022-11-28 17:38:57 <phf> but i still lost the declerative mapping between `command` and its payload, through the "type" indirection. not sure if it's better or worse. i guess this fix makes it very explicit that there's no declerative mapping between type and command with this kludge.
bb7a2df3ff16e34f…ff16e34f…2022-11-12 02:12:56 <asciilifeform> esp. once bolted on signpost's luby thing
49fed9304605f62b…5204da40…2022-11-15 19:02:24 <asciilifeform> signpost: wat's the point of elaborately lifting goxcoinz tho
f75d6665ffbfa797…f77ff4ff…2022-12-01 00:33:23 <phf> it is apparently possible to register php functions to as sqlite functions. e.g.
d83906bc7f0c0232…15e828ba…2022-10-03 03:57:08 <phf> but also who knows, there's https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/zoomlunch.jpg but also https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/Knuth-vivian20181019C.jpg
5427ed5cbb7a2df3…bb7a2df3…2022-11-12 02:14:17 <asciilifeform> the 'packets at sumthing like line rate' req. makes a rather strict bound on oldest iron that one could reasonably use
b9c66191f75d6665…f75d6665…2022-12-01 00:33:30 <phf> $db->createFunction('foo', function($s){return "i says, '$s'";});
eba60a9ce2ef284f…e2ef284f…2022-12-14 21:06:48 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018239 << worx as speced in html draft
fe8c9220d83906bc…d83906bc…2022-10-03 03:57:35 <phf> that later 2018 one looks identical to the late 90s screenshot. and now we know
0c2435b55427ed5c…5427ed5c…2022-11-12 02:14:46 <asciilifeform> then again if yer line rate is a 10baseT..
957c2ccbb464beb2…b464beb2…2022-11-15 19:02:48 <asciilifeform> (after the actual btc, however little or much was in the piggy, walked off)
97018bacb9c66191…b9c66191…2022-12-01 00:33:55 <phf> var_dump($db->querySingle("SELECT foo('hello, world')")); ⇒ string(22) "i says, 'hello, world'"
b7dcee5deba60a9c…00a432ae…2022-12-14 21:07:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:35:05 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: phf: addrcast & prod, but atm not fully worx ( partly b/c not erryone on latest ver. of blatta (nfi whether all worx in smalpest) ) partly on acct of symmetric NATs and 'hammer' not yet exists in blatta
41d28657eba60a9c…eba60a9c…2022-12-25 10:52:37 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform wat exactly is this unordred_set with o(1) insert/delete?
2b18d5cc0c2435b5…beb8fa4d…2022-11-12 02:19:10 <phf> i suspect as of right now blatta has much lower rate than genera at line rate :x
ca03819f957c2ccb…957c2ccb…2022-11-15 19:03:52 <asciilifeform> would've been simpler to rm -rf / the 'who's owed wat' db, neh
c27e2b58b7dcee5d…5736537e…2022-12-14 21:12:39 <asciilifeform> phf: the 1 imho key win from 'press on technologies' is that they have a shelf life (unlike group of excitable shaheeds) and thereby can accumulate
58bb368841d28657…41d28657…2022-12-25 10:53:05 <jonsykkel> either way i think there is simpler way to do wihtout 1800 magic vector structures
1aceb780ca03819f…4605f62b…2022-11-15 19:05:41 <signpost> if you're just trying to kill FTX sure, but if you're trying to maximally dirty your adversary in the eyes of future BRICS++ members, whore house needs to do some volume before you break it open.
f7d8f461c27e2b58…c27e2b58…2022-12-14 21:14:08 <asciilifeform> e.g. lispm patiently waited for 3 decades; p2p mostly waited, 'frozen in amber', for 20y; rsa's been waiting since '77 and still waits
84ab2a2c58bb3688…58bb3688…2022-12-25 10:53:12 <jonsykkel> where u just decide on max packet rate and determine static bufer sizes based on that
44f5762b9936ab42…9936ab42…2022-11-12 02:42:05 <phf> also, when you're done fucking around with all this modern dead end bullshit, tk will be waiting for you https://github.com/simonjwright/tcladashell
ec2fd3cb1aceb780…ca03819f…2022-11-15 19:06:19 <asciilifeform> seems dirty enuff as is (being entirely undisguised pyramid, complete with 'seven percent!111' or wat was it) but nfi
c1b51f7c70a72875…70a72875…2022-12-01 02:38:05 <phf> mp-wp has an amusingly large number of hardcoded branding e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_remove-all-javascript/tree/mp-wp/wp-includes/general-template.php#L1710
e25796eff7d8f461…9cf2977c…2022-12-14 21:15:04 <phf> that position is self-evidently false, excalibur is entirely useless without an arthur to wield it
8096471884ab2a2c…84ab2a2c…2022-12-25 10:53:25 <jonsykkel> it requires u to use system clok insted of packet.stamp to retain o(1) insert
cacad1e644f5762b…0c2435b5…2022-11-12 03:14:04 <asciilifeform> phf: last looked toomany yrs ago (tried to bake a scheme binding, choked on cppisms). but apparently alive , and sumbody even baked a mostly-complete ada glue, worth a look
b1547d73ec2fd3cb…ec2fd3cb…2022-11-15 19:13:42 <asciilifeform> meanwhile potentially interesting util linked from the 'hac' thing.
148034e8c1b51f7c…c1b51f7c…2022-12-01 02:38:55 <phf> a special function to ensure you can brand any kind of content!
ba57c437e25796ef…f7d8f461…2022-12-14 21:15:13 <asciilifeform> whereas 'gang of shaheeds', once becomes clear to'em that there aint anyffin ~novel~ to do (and esp. if goaded by charismatic fuhrer to throw themselves at enemy mg for ~0 reward) eventually goes home.
9693231780964718…80964718…2022-12-25 10:53:37 <jonsykkel> but that dosnt mater cuz theres a upper bound on the difference between those. simply means bufer will have to be sized for worst case
888b2345b1547d73…b1547d73…2022-11-15 19:19:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016282 << to clarify further -- pestron user ~can~ sync own clock from whatever reich service if he wants; but thing designed to operate without this assumption. (incidentally: possible useful feature would be to alert operator if his clock is wildly out of sync with incoming timesta
c268079c148034e8…148034e8…2022-12-01 02:40:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-30#1017211 << sqlite is a library that you load into process memory, that knows how to safely edit a shared binary blob. a registered function is essentially ffi from sql to hosting environment, be that python or php.
abb6c243ba57c437…ba57c437…2022-12-14 21:15:44 <asciilifeform> phf: excalibur precisely illustrative of the phakt tho -- it was able to wait for arthur
d6191181adab217b…adab217b…2022-11-12 03:15:05 asciilifeform will try prior to resorting to tk or 'outta toothpicks'
6c41195e888b2345…d1b95380…2022-11-15 19:20:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:59:43 signpost: but yep not needed
bb4e1fc8c268079c…a0724937…2022-12-01 02:41:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-30 21:14:01 asciilifeform[6]: wonders how precisely that worx
78952deb38a28493…38a28493…2022-12-25 19:06:35 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019265 << ah, "o(1) on average"
15050a386c41195e…888b2345…2022-11-15 19:20:02 <asciilifeform> ... if his clock is wildly out of sync with incoming timestamps from peers.)
a41323f8779797b4…e25796ef…2022-12-14 21:17:27 <phf> i mean, we know where you stand on this subject, rehashing the same arguments over and over is kind of silly
e4627fca779797b4…779797b4…2022-12-14 21:17:29 <asciilifeform> even bitcoin still 'waiting', and likely will continue (enemy was able to smother the fire to an ember, but not put out)
afb9174278952deb…78952deb…2022-12-25 19:06:53 <jonsykkel> after thikning about ur system with linked list and decent implementaiton, i agre my algo is bloat and trash
b99431ff78952deb…3d56e31a…2022-12-25 19:08:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 10:49:21 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019254 << a cpp11ism
c0221ffa37419254…37419254…2022-11-12 03:24:22 asciilifeform unsurprisingly at 1st stab finds that the glue dun build outta the box, can't find the FL/* headers. but prolly solvable.
5dc6c47fe4627fca…a41323f8…2022-12-14 21:18:32 <phf> but your arguments on the subject are always full of holes! "genera vs personality cult" genera always wins particularly if you opposite to some small time personality cult. but even there "genera still waits" and no indication it won't do so indefinitely
fca33b35c0221ffa…c0221ffa…2022-11-12 03:25:19 asciilifeform wonders howthefuq it worked on author's box. the eternal question re these.
d5ecb0a2686139e4…686139e4…2022-11-15 19:20:15 <asciilifeform> (this is wai multipart. tired of this nonsense)
5588c2625dc6c47f…e4627fca…2022-12-14 21:18:46 <asciilifeform> phf: was in re: earlier item. asciilifeform partial to efforts that at least potentially cumulative/multigenerational, rather than 'write in sand'.
994dd9d04f64cac2…4f64cac2…2022-12-25 19:07:36 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019276 << luby frags will go in filter? this is imposible imo, if want to send fat warez at >dialup speed
66b4a13ffca33b35…fca33b35…2022-11-12 04:13:02 asciilifeform found that it builds, when patched as shown.
bb48e8f5d5ecb0a2…d5ecb0a2…2022-11-15 19:20:59 <asciilifeform> (and over9000 tired of having to see www logger errything , 'did it get chopped')
272f47bb5588c262…b7dcee5d…2022-12-14 21:19:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 14:59:24 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, you're like an ultra-technologist in my victorian fantasy, maybe as you're not as interested in inter-human aspect of what tmsr proposed and where mp was the strongest, you reject that element as the least important. "this technological wunderwaffen i've tinkered i
a36f7d70994dd9d0…b99431ff…2022-12-25 19:08:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 11:03:13 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: observe that filter stores hashes of all msgs, not only chained; and emitted as well as received. letting'em all sit for potentially 15 extra min. is mega-bloat, esp. after we have signpost's luby
ae368558994dd9d0…994dd9d0…2022-12-25 19:08:54 <jonsykkel> there was some discusion re this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-25#1112227
c1a42c8366b4a13f…66b4a13f…2022-11-12 04:14:22 <asciilifeform> libfltkada.a ~4.5MB, which aint terrible.
61e7a8cdbb48e8f5…946276fd…2022-11-15 20:17:57 <awt> asciilifeform: blatta breaks up long messages now
5011b5b5ae368558…2e9350be…2022-12-25 19:09:13 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-25 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: there's no particular reason to dedupe warez fragments by looking in the db (or ever placing'em there to start with)
c1c6feafae368558…ae368558…2022-12-25 19:37:11 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: yes, its in memory, where it will be imposibly big is my point, if its to store every luby frag
4baa46c2c1a42c83…c1a42c83…2022-11-12 04:15:04 asciilifeform not tested, as thing didn't come with any ready examples, will need to bake one
6052b5bddd26f205…dd26f205…2022-12-14 21:19:38 <asciilifeform> and indeed 'if no arthur', excalibur may well 'wait' until vanishes under volcanic strata.
74e92df35011b5b5…2a2312e0…2022-12-25 19:34:42 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: filter never touches disk (unless, i suppose, yer on a 20+yo machine where swapping is a thing )
d828ab2474e92df3…74e92df3…2022-12-25 19:35:19 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: filter is absolutely req'd, per the dictum that no packet is to ever be processed 'as-new' >1nce; and in particular, in 0xfa draft, there are binary packets where no speaker field;
c2fe306a9b5e0f23…a15c1f80…2022-12-25 19:39:41 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: you dun have to get it let 'impossibly' big (tho what do 15min of 32byte hashes of messages coming at 1g/s weigh? prolly coupla GB at most)
2e7275a59b5e0f23…9b5e0f23…2022-12-25 19:53:49 <jonsykkel> the overhead of set mechanism as far as i can tell will double that number
fad2c50b5b3809cd…5b3809cd…2022-11-15 20:18:36 <asciilifeform> the prev. one barfed on dupe at entries (somehow?) in db iirc
8715b68b4cf58d7c…4cf58d7c…2022-12-14 21:20:57 asciilifeform simply observes that politicking w/out novel tech not historically gives interesting result.
ac5a066fd828ab24…d828ab24…2022-12-25 19:36:08 <asciilifeform> ... and the only way you can distinguish -- in the event a buggy station (or joker replaying captured packets) throws it back at you -- one you sent from one addrs'd to you -- is the filter
57c91693c2fe306a…c2fe306a…2022-12-25 19:39:56 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: ... instead can cap it, and start ignoring incomings until space frees
ced0e3752e7275a5…2e7275a5…2022-12-25 19:57:06 <jonsykkel> then u gota traverse those (max) 200k long lists and delete 200k/sec from set (presumably hash table) as stuff starts expiring
c89cec738715b68b…5dc6c47f…2022-12-14 21:21:43 <phf> that's not "simply", that's an opinion statement, that just happens to coincide with your preferred opinion, presented as self evident!
121f813eac5a066f…ac5a066f…2022-12-25 19:36:31 <asciilifeform> ( per new spec -- anyffin you send, chained or not, hits the filter before it hits the wire )
805af78757c91693…57c91693…2022-12-25 19:40:38 <asciilifeform> but having the deduper aint optional, if you accept 'not dupe' on faith at ANY point, yer open to replays
5597b2d3ced0e375…ced0e375…2022-12-25 19:58:23 <jonsykkel> maybe not "imposible" but significant, imo
a722d7cd9d337494…61e7a8cd…2022-11-15 20:20:08 <awt> It's in logs but you gotta explicitly enable address cast, also you can run using a faster serpant implementation.
0ec0b291c89cec73…c89cec73…2022-12-14 21:25:27 <phf> without right kind of politcking can't produce galleons, sometimes it's the case of "too much politicking" like in feudal japan, but in other cases possibly that not enough. the oft cited example of disney executive herding animators
a15c1f80121f813e…121f813e…2022-12-25 19:37:00 <asciilifeform> at the risk of pedanticism -- only ~chained~ msgs go to db on disk.
45b689f0805af787…805af787…2022-12-25 19:42:02 <asciilifeform> note that randos can't fill yer dedupe filter (it only stores hashes of validated, i.e. from actual peer, incl. self, and ~not previously seen~ msgs)
50e3f3dc5597b2d3…5597b2d3…2022-12-25 20:00:18 <jonsykkel> conclusion from last linked thread was iirc no reason to put frags in filter cuz replays of these wont have any effect
ff863f5335abcdc0…55b752f7…2022-11-12 15:20:17 <billymg> i'm a little suspicious of the timing of this recent chaos, USD is currently rugging. reminds me of march 2020
9bb8e3fb0ec0b291…0ec0b291…2022-12-14 21:27:23 <phf> but also what's interesting, greece as the cradle of our civlization arguably produced a lot of interesting results, in thought and practice, but not just no novel tech, mocked and opposed technology as a less-than-manly enterprise
9886401245b689f0…45b689f0…2022-12-25 19:43:17 <asciilifeform> the most that can be done by rando replayer is to capture e.g. MB of legit packets and play it back to you until its timestamps expire. (which won't grow the filter, as they'll be dupes)
25384b0750e3f3dc…8d4ac8b4…2022-12-25 20:38:24 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: depends on what sorta encoding used for the frags, neh
562f981650e3f3dc…50e3f3dc…2022-12-25 20:41:34 <jonsykkel> sure does, talking specifically about this scheme http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-25#1112236
7dd220a5ff863f53…ad306780…2022-11-12 15:16:08 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-03-12 asciilifeform: pretty interesting, imho. usd prints $tril of fresh printolade, and folx... buy it
09c6f9d2e16a1967…9d337494…2022-11-15 20:40:56 <asciilifeform> awt: hm wai would faster serpent help ?
d067cc489bb8e3fb…9bb8e3fb…2022-12-14 21:29:54 <phf> and unfortunately in the baby with bathwater department, i think that mp's point re "engineers" was fundamentally correct. mp was in fact often times correct, the way RT is correct about us politics: if you choose the right kind of truth, can easily wield it to support your argument, while keeping the truth true
1cd7824698864012…98864012…2022-12-25 19:43:51 <asciilifeform> in other words, filter simply contains hashes of ~15min (avg) legit traffic in both dirs.
b387068925384b07…25384b07…2022-12-25 20:39:07 <asciilifeform> for 1 thing, there's no 'speaker' field in'em, so x->y can be passed back to x and he'll think is from y (if he hasn't got it in his filter) and vice-versa
dfa3fa3f562f9816…5011b5b5…2022-12-25 20:41:38 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-25 asciilifeform: each luby msg would include hash of the slice it is a frag of. thereby dr.evil piping in chunks of previous transfers would do 0
ac9590767dd220a5…ff863f53…2022-11-12 15:21:29 <billymg> also, attn awt, whaack, anyone thinking of moving to cr: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015972 (in case it got lost yesterday)
e0aedea709c6f9d2…09c6f9d2…2022-11-15 20:41:18 <asciilifeform> hmac, would think, would be the limiting reactant there
6ed0c7f1d067cc48…d067cc48…2022-12-14 21:34:10 <phf> so one could make a pro technology argument by pulling a once in a lifetime technology like transistor, or marine chronometer, OR make a pro politicking argument by pull the heights of western culture. and then use either to support either "polishing a lense" that results in a life m Yc{mJ-hB"lmc
aca884a41cd78246…1cd78246…2022-12-25 19:46:56 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: at ~226860 pest packets/s ( see here ) , and 32min worth ,
ee53aa04b3870689…b3870689…2022-12-25 20:40:37 <asciilifeform> for anuther thing, luby per se (even signpost's variant) doesn't automatically tolerate garbage
4fdcfaf773ec7339…2a04373c…2022-12-25 20:42:00 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: is how asciilifeform handled multipart chains, yes
c962369d73ec7339…73ec7339…2022-12-25 20:43:21 <jonsykkel> indeed would have to be restricted to the data fragments strictly
a382bfe3ac959076…7dd220a5…2022-11-12 15:17:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 14:29:32 billymg: some bitcoin legislation being proposed in CR: http://billymg.com/downloads/Crypto-Asset-Market-Law-23415.pdf
479cf4bbac959076…ac959076…2022-11-12 15:21:56 <billymg> and http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015973
8a43077be0aedea7…e0aedea7…2022-11-15 20:50:56 <asciilifeform> ( if hmac not match seal, there's no deserpenting happening )
bb655c7f6ed0c7f1…6ed0c7f1…2022-12-14 21:34:10 <phf> time dedicated to one or dozen very polished lens and nothing else OR encourage one petty tirant's dysfunctional tendencies m Yc{mJ-hB"lmc
c0464530aca884a4…a36f7d70…2022-12-25 19:48:05 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: PeterL: let's assume ethernet. so, in bytes, let's calculate 1 packet's mass: 5 (gap) + 4 (preamble) + 14 (eth header) + 20 (ipv4 hdr) + 8 (udp header) + 496 (pest) + 4 (ethernet crc) == 551
a49ea05c4fdcfaf7…4fdcfaf7…2022-12-25 20:42:30 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: how about e.g. header packet tho, where one requests transmission of a file.
bf8cf999c962369d…c962369d…2022-12-25 20:45:00 <jonsykkel> agree that would be nice and simple, but at cost of 4 xtra ram sticks
48747fb6479cf4bb…a382bfe3…2022-11-12 15:17:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 14:29:43 billymg: overall looks not bad, as far as these things go
851296218a43077b…8a43077b…2022-11-15 20:51:46 <asciilifeform> ( ... at least not for the red cast payload )
b881ad0cbb655c7f…bb655c7f…2022-12-14 21:37:54 <phf> both directions are lacking, and the ~humor~ of my original statement, about the victorian technologist, is that attempting to solve communication problems with a technological wunderwaffen is as much a folly as trying to build a technology wunderwaffen through slave beatings
70f9d850c0464530…aca884a4…2022-12-25 19:47:56 <asciilifeform> ... and 32 byte per (hash), 32 * 60 * 30 * 226860 / (1024**2) == ~12462 MB max. (not incl. overhead of the set mechanism)
2a04373cb521732e…b521732e…2022-12-25 20:41:13 <asciilifeform> naturally it tolerates missing/outta order frags. but not random piss (e.g. replayed from prev. sessions)
ab4f0145a49ea05c…a49ea05c…2022-12-25 20:43:28 asciilifeform holds that in general a station oughta always know 1) whether arbitrary msg is previously unseen 2) whether it had been sent by station itself or by a peer. 1+2 appears to require 'all goes in filter' in the general case.
b646e8b7bf8cf999…ab4f0145…2022-12-25 20:45:10 <asciilifeform> if filter skips specifically unchained direct msgs of types which tolerate dupes cleanly, then imho acceptable
b7202fd2bf8cf999…bf8cf999…2022-12-25 20:49:23 <jonsykkel> posible, hard to say which is worse, jumping around randomly in memory 100k's per sec to delete from filter set is not great
7bc68c2848747fb6…479cf4bb…2022-11-12 15:22:55 <billymg> whoops, this one: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-11#1015974
ea688d2a85129621…a24b190e…2022-11-16 00:43:44 <whaack> manual scoopbot: http://ztkfg.com/2022/11/apnea-and-the-love-of-freediving/
38c05dccb881ad0c…8715b68b…2022-12-14 22:12:56 <asciilifeform> phf: aint wrong, in either direction one can easily walk straight into own arse and never emerge.
498aedc270f9d850…70f9d850…2022-12-25 19:48:46 <asciilifeform> ( tho in practice you prolly won't be eating at 1g/s on yer box, the hmac thing will be bottleneck )
03b4093bb646e8b7…b646e8b7…2022-12-25 20:45:41 <asciilifeform> (ugly but acceptable, not errybody has 256GB of stix installed )
f8b20916b7202fd2…7b06069f…2022-12-25 20:49:57 asciilifeform suspects that replayed lubyism could be rejected faster than a lookup in 16GB+ heap
fd1fa88e7bc68c28…48747fb6…2022-11-12 15:18:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-11 14:45:07 billymg: a few of the better points
7e775430ea688d2a…ea688d2a…2022-11-16 00:44:25 <whaack> blog articles are so rare nowadays, scoopbot never gets tested
9e97426738c05dcc…38c05dcc…2022-12-14 22:14:26 asciilifeform fwiw not 'indifferent to people-talking', hence wai put effort into trying to come up with tooling for subj, rather than disappearing into a verisimilitude-esque walk into some abstraction
4439a462498aedc2…c0464530…2022-12-25 19:49:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 13:25:58 asciilifeform[5]: ( and also recall that the bigger the wot, the linearly moar work is to verify a blackpacket )
86c4311403b4093b…03b4093b…2022-12-25 20:47:37 <asciilifeform> problem is that sumbody can eat yer cpu 100% by replaying luby frags, tho
d29fc53ff8b20916…f8b20916…2022-12-25 20:50:49 <asciilifeform> re 'how' will prolly have to wait until the lubytron actually specified.
3878257d93e28eca…d29fc53f…2022-12-25 20:58:01 <asciilifeform> for thread-completeness, anuther solution could be to actually track clock diff. b/w you and $peer, and treat binary msgs as expiring in e.g. 1min from timestamp (adjusted for the diff) rather than 15.
842b45e493e28eca…93e28eca…2022-12-25 21:08:25 <jonsykkel> heap would be smaller, memory problem less bad, but same # of ops for cpu
e0719deefd1fa88e…7bc68c28…2022-11-12 15:24:38 <billymg> for additional context, the guy who sponsored and led the drafting of the bill is a contact of mine here. any feedback left here will make it back to him directly
384b481e7e775430…7e775430…2022-11-16 00:45:09 <whaack> if any1 posts a comment plz let me know here... sadly i am inundated with spam and haven't figured out how to tweak my php form to make it so that naive bots are filtered
bfceaaa59e974267…c96bf678…2022-12-15 01:06:43 <lobbes> asciilifeform: at the risk of sounding like a dingleberry, I think you (with laserlike precision I might add) just misunderstood the punchline of phf's victorian technologist analogy
f1fb53fb86c43114…86c43114…2022-12-25 20:48:15 <asciilifeform> key intent of pest is that a station can be made as ddos-proof as the external net pipe(s) allow.
7deca2603878257d…3878257d…2022-12-25 20:59:16 <asciilifeform> ( for arbitrary msg, +/-15min is forced by 'no guarantee that clocks are synced, gotta be able to speak if they aint' but for rapid-fire sequence of msgs, this aint a concern, the clocks won't drift on time scale of minutes or even hours by any substantial amt
97ca1ecb842b45e4…f221359d…2022-12-25 21:09:01 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: not same, as patently stale (per timestamp) msg only gets hash-compared to list of active getdata's, and not touched the filter
12ccef21842b45e4…842b45e4…2022-12-25 21:11:53 <jonsykkel> right, not same for stales, but common case during lubytronic activities is that u are blasted with valid packets
6ee2b660f0e61ad5…f0e61ad5…2022-11-12 16:27:17 <signpost> billymg: the definition of ownership here is suprisingly sane.
fc183a7f384b481e…1aceb780…2022-11-16 00:46:14 <signpost> best solution will be blogging into pest via chained messages
463d83cabfceaaa5…bfceaaa5…2022-12-15 01:06:45 <lobbes> feel free to dingle my berries if I'm wrong. (I just smoked a bunch of weed so I'll go back to read-only mode for now)
903ee3fa88a48da8…88a48da8…2022-12-25 19:51:03 <asciilifeform> if one were to narrow the time window to +/- 10min instead of 15 -- ~8.3GB, moar manageable
7b06069ff1fb53fb…f1fb53fb…2022-12-25 20:49:03 <asciilifeform> if can guarantee that a replayed luby frag is rejected as fast (or faster) as the filter would've -- then, worx
c2c87a4097ca1ecb…97ca1ecb…2022-12-25 21:09:41 <asciilifeform> no need to look in the filter if can throw out as stale.
285a245712ccef21…b91c5f1e…2022-12-25 21:13:40 asciilifeform seen ping times in the range of coupla sec., when over ancient 'slip' etc., but nuffin remotely approaching 1min
717f8d25463d83ca…9e974267…2022-12-15 01:34:25 <asciilifeform> lobbes: asciilifeform not telepath, and not infrequently misunderstands argument
8d4ac8b4903ee3fa…903ee3fa…2022-12-25 19:51:14 <asciilifeform> but in either case certainly not 'impossible' imho
d5c9c9e6fe9a2d0f…fe9a2d0f…2022-12-25 21:01:25 <asciilifeform> you'd still be eating the cpu cost of working the filter heap, but in this case of over9000x smaller one.
43c5179fc2c87a40…c2c87a40…2022-12-25 21:10:29 <asciilifeform> the +/-15min for ~all~ msgs, on reflection, is lunacy imho
8e7e33e7d1623f5a…285a2457…2022-12-25 21:15:23 <asciilifeform> imho if you have ~1min pings and you aint operating a space fleet, you have serious problems that oughta be dealt with before trying to operate pestron
dd79d7d7d1623f5a…d1623f5a…2022-12-25 21:21:29 <jonsykkel> will have to shelve my plans of martian carrier pigeon experiments
64b13eb746eddefa…46eddefa…2022-11-12 16:31:04 <signpost> nice to see a carve-out for developers in the service provider definition
80b0befe60c7555b…384b481e…2022-11-16 00:52:27 <whaack> heya signpost, it's never too bad on the beach :)
f6cab389717f8d25…717f8d25…2022-12-15 01:35:32 <asciilifeform> pretty sure that understood phf's tho ( imho -- entirely reasonable admonition against '1nce the rockets go up, who cares where they come down, that aint my department, said wehrner von braun'(tm)(r)(lehrer) )
493b4b07d5c9c9e6…d5c9c9e6…2022-12-25 21:02:01 <asciilifeform> ( if we suppose that under no reasonable circumstances will a packet >~1min. old in physical time need to be considered legit)
b91c5f1e43c5179f…43c5179f…2022-12-25 21:11:13 <asciilifeform> it only makes sense if you've gone at least coupla hrs b/w last contact with $peer
5e4239468e7e33e7…8e7e33e7…2022-12-25 21:15:49 <asciilifeform> ( pestron is not intended for 'sneakernet', carrier pigeon, etc. systems )
fce4bd7f64b13eb7…64b13eb7…2022-11-12 16:33:34 <signpost> there's some ambiguity about whether the operator of a smart contract is a service provider or a developer though. maybe that needs to be further distinguished.
5b487d2e493b4b07…493b4b07…2022-12-25 21:02:46 <asciilifeform> ... if someone sets up a pestron on mars, will need to revisit this, lol. but until then, imho entirely feasible to say 'msg is valid for 1min of physical time'
ece29db296362fe2…96362fe2…2022-12-27 14:10:30 <jonsykkel> was rather irc comands ie \r\n:part #pest someone
0cfd1a89fce4bd7f…fce4bd7f…2022-11-12 16:33:43 <signpost> shitcoiners are also likely to abuse the shit out of the NFT carve-out
b8a7c0f9f9c13a44…f9c13a44…2022-11-16 03:41:24 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform found himself reading 'x11proto' and discovered that it aint so big ( 'only' weighs 3-4x moar than current draft pest spec... )
d8a44ba35b487d2e…5b487d2e…2022-12-25 21:04:39 <asciilifeform> so, to run with this, suppose that 1) msg from cold peer (i.e. 1 that hasn't transmitted for $interval) is valid in +/-15m window 2) msg from 'warm' peer is valid for 1min (following drift-adjusted timestamp)
d09b141f27d9dc44…98bef42a…2022-12-25 22:19:06 shinohai views bot latency times .... "I'm ok with dat!"
ddc176030cfd1a89…0cfd1a89…2022-11-12 16:39:16 <signpost> I'd like to see capital requirements and reporting requirements for service providers. codify proof of funds, why not?
0b2b56f3b8a7c0f9…b8a7c0f9…2022-11-16 03:42:16 asciilifeform was thinking, 'wai fuck with xcb etc, wainot 'clx for ada'
0336b4b8d8a44ba3…d8a44ba3…2022-12-25 21:05:04 <asciilifeform> (1min may even be excessively generous. ever seen a 1min ping time?)
fa8a1b86d09b141f…9c02ed7e…2022-12-25 22:31:24 asciilifeform currently thinking: 1st packet from cold peer -- +/-15min; packet from warm peer valid +/- 15sec (after getting drift delta from the 'uncolding' packet). would need to think how behaves under replay scenario tho
596b1a33f1c01318…f1c01318…2022-12-27 14:12:35 <jonsykkel> cant remember if spec says anyhting re this
fae455aeddc17603…85f71f7d…2022-11-12 17:26:41 <phf> asciilifeform, you ever took any gilmer l. blankenship's classes at umd?
b80762610b2b56f3…0b2b56f3…2022-11-16 03:43:31 asciilifeform is gonna need x11 proto for fpga lispmisms, come to think of it, the super-ice40 board dun have a display connector...
f221359d0336b4b8…0336b4b8…2022-12-25 21:05:38 <asciilifeform> ^ jonsykkel awt phf signpost et al ^ plox to comment.
bcfcdd26fa8a1b86…fa8a1b86…2022-12-25 22:32:49 <asciilifeform> i.e., theoretically, someone could replay an 'uncolding' old packet within 15min of its expir, and throw in the rest, and some of'em will be seen as fresh (given as they were evicted from filter)
8883a5d9596b1a33…285b928a…2022-12-27 14:12:53 <awt> jonsykkel: yes I don't recall if multiline messages are allowed.
800344e2b8076261…b8076261…2022-11-16 03:44:12 <asciilifeform> tho possibly for above could use clx eventually, rather than 'reinvent wheel'
5f80ad918883a5d9…8883a5d9…2022-12-27 15:36:12 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-27#1019516 << not sure which bug jonsykkel exploited, but the bug that you quoted, and asciilifeform made a hypotheses about was later exploited by me, and i also provide an explanation
b3c7833078390041…67012bb7…2022-12-27 18:06:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019461 << possibly asciilifeform is thick, but from notice_and_privmsg_handler() still appears that 'if message[0] == "%"' kicks in regardless of what direction message is going (irc->pestron or reverse) ?
e13f16d58f288f56…8f288f56…2022-11-12 17:27:59 <asciilifeform> phf: dun recall encountering anyone by that name either. what did he teach?
141dbcc95f80ad91…e9adc2a1…2022-12-27 15:36:27 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 09:06:11 awt[asciilifeform]: My current understanding is that the bug jonsykkel successfully exploited was that blatta doesn't escape incoming messages for irc commands.
c8c41d50b3c78330…0bc12e6b…2022-12-27 18:07:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 10:45:30 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019456 << asciilifeform's report was that blatta was looking for *pest* commands in incoming messages, which is not the case.
94fdda8968ede2cc…e967c414…2022-12-27 18:12:41 <phf> i'm not playing this game again, you'r interpretation is incorrect
694e4cfc68ede2cc…68ede2cc…2022-12-27 18:14:57 <jonsykkel> 123
:asciilifeform PRIVMSG #pest :%peer stalin
febd630de13f16d5…e13f16d5…2022-11-12 17:28:48 asciilifeform looks in their www. apparently -- electronics
2733637805f8ddaf…05f8ddaf…2022-11-16 03:46:31 <asciilifeform> ( and iirc wireshark nao supports it, similarly )
78c00dc8141dbcc9…5f80ad91…2022-12-27 15:38:22 <phf> actually maybe i didn't explain it, tthe bug is that pest allows newlines in messages, but irc protocol doesn't. so if you simply passthrough a message with newline, everything after newline becomes part of stream from pest to irc client
3ae011c1c8c41d50…b3c78330…2022-12-27 18:07:18 <asciilifeform> still needs the newline thing to set it off, cuz otherwise the '%'-prefixed incoming msg doesn't match any useful command, afaik
11cefa3294fdda89…cdd0d702…2022-12-27 18:13:18 <asciilifeform> awt: what am i missing re the pasted py routine ? from jonsykkel above, clear that it doesn't behave as asciilifeform supposed, but not obv wai
3bf14662694e4cfc…11cefa32…2022-12-27 18:15:04 <asciilifeform> phf: yer quite evidently right that it was 'red herring', but would like to know why
00a0e6d327336378…27336378…2022-11-16 04:01:13 asciilifeform updated pre-draft pest spec with jonsykkel's correction & coupla others.
5b97a06978c00dc8…78c00dc8…2022-12-27 15:39:02 <phf> i think the correct solution is to split a pest message by newlines, and send each line as a separate privmsg to client
75db7d2121482cf1…fae455ae…2022-11-12 17:29:38 <phf> yeah, like "real" electronics, discrete signal analysis that kind of stuff
929cf39000a0e6d3…6c41195e…2022-11-16 04:02:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-10 11:51:20 asciilifeform[6]: meanwhile: signpost , awt , jonsykkel , phf, billymg , et al : preview of 0xfa. a number of sections not done, and prolly over9000 typos but fwiw.
6aa4e56934a0fc34…9e0f26ab…2022-11-16 15:00:24 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-08#1015751 << >> https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1592604699693580289
2684bb3ce967c414…3ae011c1…2022-12-27 18:08:24 asciilifeform looks again at phf's description of his poc
3e62b77c929cf390…929cf390…2022-11-16 04:02:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 11:06:35 asciilifeform[6]: nao wat's missing is a mandatory 0 in 'chunk' in 4.2.2.
d84d684c6aa4e569…3e62b77c…2022-11-16 14:56:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:28:41 signpost: yeah I'm aleady astonished at the modern underclass stomach for insult, so I'm not placing any bets on the other side.
ec44be3b0d9436b0…0d9436b0…2022-12-27 15:44:17 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019456 << asciilifeform's report was that blatta was looking for *pest* commands in incoming messages, which is not the case.
8750de9d2684bb3c…2684bb3c…2022-12-27 18:09:37 asciilifeform unfortunately does not atm have a phf-style hand-cranked pest packet shooter handy
42a879dcad45bd8a…ad45bd8a…2022-12-27 18:16:32 <asciilifeform> but '%' trick dun work, even tho seems that oughta from the coad. asciilifeform insufficient pythonist to see why, tho
5728978e4eaf691b…4eaf691b…2022-12-29 13:13:58 <jonsykkel> if none of ur peers wants to store lolcat on drive, u are fucked
b3faef1f21c945c7…75db7d21…2022-11-12 17:33:01 <phf> nah, i picked up an old conference proceedings at a bookstore in portland out of all the places, "symbolic computation, applications to scientific computing". there's a paper there on non-linear control systems package for macsyma. i decided to check if the code's been ever published (as if!), and realized that the prof. u
ec779dbdd84d684c…60c7555b…2022-11-16 17:15:47 <signpost> billymg: hilarious, "the only way to make customers whole is to let me restart the ponzi"
51a1d6abec44be3b…c3372405…2022-12-27 15:45:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 10:37:33 phf[awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-27#1019516 << not sure which bug jonsykkel exploited, but the bug that you quoted, and asciilifeform made a hypotheses about was later exploited by me, and i also provide an explanation
831a1c978750de9d…8750de9d…2022-12-27 18:10:09 <asciilifeform> iirc jonsykkel tried sending msgs with '%' at pos0, asciilifeform saw invalid cmd barf in local log then
7d5d602b42a879dc…42a879dc…2022-12-27 18:24:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019459 << imho oughta terminate at newline, rather than split (maintain 1:1 pest msg to irc msg) but possibly not matters if the irc frontend is 1foot in grave already
f022df2db3faef1f…b3faef1f…2022-11-12 17:33:01 <phf> nder whose supervision it was done is this blankenship guy and that he taught at umd
bdcffb0eec779dbd…00a0e6d3…2022-11-16 17:25:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: e.g. mavrodi said precisely same thing. and come to think of it, prolly erry pyramidist to date ditto
3613c05b51a1d6ab…141dbcc9…2022-12-27 15:44:29 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 09:06:11 awt[asciilifeform]: My current understanding is that the bug jonsykkel successfully exploited was that blatta doesn't escape incoming messages for irc commands.
cdd0d702831a1c97…831a1c97…2022-12-27 18:12:21 <asciilifeform> phf: if you've the cycles, can plox send out e.g. '%at' ?
142427627d5d602b…c8c41d50…2022-12-27 18:25:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 10:40:15 phf[awt]: i think the correct solution is to split a pest message by newlines, and send each line as a separate privmsg to client
a2f84be758c631b8…58c631b8…2022-12-29 13:14:06 <jonsykkel> then clients would have setting like "download all <3mb cats auto", and "store all <3mb cats forever" if can spare the disk
a419d82dbdcffb0e…bdcffb0e…2022-11-16 17:25:25 <asciilifeform> 'don't blame me, blame the police, they ruined you' etc
61e875763613c05b…5b97a069…2022-12-27 15:45:56 <phf> his report was an invalid interpretation of the same original bug log we both looked at, and at least as far as that log is concerned, his interpretation was invalid
cc0e5c1814242762…94fdda89…2022-12-27 18:29:45 <phf> that means that entirely valid multiline pest messages will result in information loss on irc clients
3c7d5821a2f84be7…a2f84be7…2022-12-29 13:14:10 <jonsykkel> puting them inline in chain seems like annoying way to force evryone to store 5000 lolcats or nothing. then when disk full u gota start deleteing evrything from old end rather than just the cats
99bf9b989b5682b1…f022df2d…2022-11-12 17:34:36 <phf> i took the classes that he taught, but with different professors. maybe different time frame (e.g. the paper is from 1988, even though he still seems to be active), or just randomly chose somebody else
a2019daaa419d82d…a419d82d…2022-11-16 17:26:23 <asciilifeform> technically aint a lie, either -- if pyramid dies tomorrow rather than today, the ~current~ chumps may well 'make whole' (if quit while ahead, lol), a ~different~, larger, set of morons will sink in their place
a1f666d361e87576…61e87576…2022-12-27 15:48:41 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013920 this particulalar log is the result of this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019458 issue only
288f0335cc0e5c18…cc0e5c18…2022-12-27 18:33:14 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-27#1019560 << but that's nothing to do with python. the only place where irc pest ought to be parsing privmsg's in general is when receiving from irc client of the station operator, so it makes sense for there to be only one handler, hardcoded for message[0]=='%' etc
30139a9b3c7d5821…3c7d5821…2022-12-29 13:14:14 <jonsykkel> which seems sily given avg cat is 3000x the mass of avg text message
933952d7a2019daa…ec779dbd…2022-11-16 17:27:31 <signpost> there's this, but also appears that normies, bred in captivity, seek it.
53689501a1f666d3…51a1d6ab…2022-12-27 15:49:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 16:17:44 asciilifeform[6]: in otherlulz, lulzy sideffects of yest.'s blatta bugola.
fe8d6742288f0335…3613c05b…2022-12-27 18:37:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 13:16:32 asciilifeform: but '%' trick dun work, even tho seems that oughta from the coad. asciilifeform insufficient pythonist to see why, tho
2646610830139a9b…30139a9b…2022-12-29 13:14:19 <jonsykkel> if do the operator decides if inline or not, inevitably sombody will "i think this here 2000x2000 jpg reencoded as png is integral to disscusion" then u are stuck forever with ball of shit weighing same as 3years of text log
035c94963ed0b539…99bf9b98…2022-11-12 17:37:29 <phf> guy's been doing real engineering research since forever, all his related news are "TRX Systems Receives Tibbets Award for Excellence: Operated by women who are ECE alumni ..." "Alumnus Profile: Pratik Gupta" "Beneficiaries include two Ph.D. fellowships in robotics, the Center for Minorities in Science and Engineering, a r
46b43eb553689501…53689501…2022-12-27 15:49:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 10:39:49 phf[awt]: actually maybe i didn't explain it, tthe bug is that pest allows newlines in messages, but irc protocol doesn't. so if you simply passthrough a message with newline, everything after newline becomes part of stream from pest to irc client
29cafa2afe8d6742…583e2927…2022-12-27 18:38:07 asciilifeform not much cares in either direction; irc frontend 'delenda est' imho
c3e0083526466108…ecaafd75…2022-12-29 15:52:41 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: this was moar or less asciilifeform's argument. atm it may seem like 'wainot jpg in chain' because net is small, errybody has luxurious net pipes, disk/cpu to spare, etc.
fbb29e8e035c9496…035c9496…2022-11-12 17:37:29 <phf> obotics capstone course, the Black Engineers Society and the Society of Professional Hispanic Engineers."
095046541a4b544b…933952d7…2022-11-16 17:28:04 <signpost> they followed charismatic salesmen throughout history
da55576629cafa2a…29cafa2a…2022-12-27 18:38:25 <asciilifeform> either is over9000x better than the old behaviour tho
fc23ab9029cafa2a…288f0335…2022-12-27 18:39:21 <phf> i have an ugly hack in my pest, which makes messages->
like this into mutliple pest messages. i'd like to remove it and send->
proper multline messages instead :>
b74ef1fac3e00835…c3e00835…2022-12-29 15:54:00 <asciilifeform> but all-to-all flooding of multi-MB pile (and demand to walk through it when standing up new station or resyncing a downed one) is a solid ugh imho.
88630a38a6e1b1bb…b74ef1fa…2022-12-29 15:55:46 <asciilifeform> ideally, we'll have a reasonable direct-share mechanism for non-humanreadable payloads, and get ~same effect as 'in chain' for things people actually want to keep around.
8976a269a6e1b1bb…a6e1b1bb…2022-12-29 15:57:42 <jonsykkel> puts responsibility of deciding which blobs to store on the net rather than the guy pushing potentially large # of cats
0bd3a12bfbb29e8e…3ed0b539…2022-11-12 17:37:57 <asciilifeform> aa lol these. prolly all of'em nao with these.
870e3e1cfbb29e8e…95f408be…2022-11-12 17:42:17 <asciilifeform> laff, but in principle could be. afaik they dun check for proper colour
8e72818e88630a38…c490ca23…2022-12-29 15:56:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 19:09:50 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: per asciilifeform's lights, the way to get the tar itself oughta be to ask one's l1 for the hash, as broadcast; someone will have it, or at least have permitted his station to receive it from a peer who ... recurses
f76820658976a269…8976a269…2022-12-29 15:59:20 <jonsykkel> guess one could make arg that someone can push megabytes of text in same way, but will not happen by accident in that case
f7edba36870e3e1c…870e3e1c…2022-11-12 17:43:22 asciilifeform meanwhile set up ffa-style build with the fltk ada thing's helloworld, aalmost worx but linker barfs at very end, 'cannot find -lfltk'
343094370c7e2b3f…0c7e2b3f…2022-11-16 17:28:56 <signpost> even proper in the context of worthwhile culture.
94f5e7298e72818e…88630a38…2022-12-29 15:57:40 asciilifeform will introduce a direct packet type, 'getbinwithhash'
80324297f7682065…1b54978a…2022-12-29 16:00:07 asciilifeform could even see having coupla-kB bins in chain, for thumbnail pics; these wouldn't bloat much moar than fat multipart texts. but not even convinced atm that this is needed
d28abf82f7682065…f7682065…2022-12-29 16:01:17 <jonsykkel> sure, just giving 2c on problems of additional behavior
d3676e0a95f408be…fbb29e8e…2022-11-12 17:39:25 <phf> meanwhile prof's papers: "richard chen" "kevin wagner"
4be45248c00e3336…c00e3336…2022-11-12 17:43:10 <phf> United States Naval Research Laboratory. most recent papers coauthored with Miloš Doroslovački
9f8a36d2f7edba36…4be45248…2022-11-12 17:48:29 <phf> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/author/37276948400 richard chen, ee ph.d. from umd in 2000. yeah sounds about right, the tail end of umd putting out talent
c66a4f0d34309437…1a4b544b…2022-11-16 17:40:14 <asciilifeform> would be quite odd if, with wildly proliferating population of delish prey, somehow no predator.
a50ea47af4a2785b…a1f666d3…2022-12-27 16:05:42 <phf> ah jonsykkel's exploitation is the same one http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013992
cb06072754f7521d…54f7521d…2022-12-27 18:41:19 <phf> i have an ugly hack in my pest, which makes messages->
b8de3c1380324297…3f481e18…2022-12-29 16:00:26 <phf> that solution has already been proposed, at the beginning of original discussion. the exploration was whether or not the other ~additional~ behavior can work
f4356f7ad28abf82…8e275a59…2022-12-29 16:03:45 <asciilifeform> 1 possible pill that hasn't yet been mentioned is a separate chain for broadcast bins (with separate db etc)
81480fd2d28abf82…d28abf82…2022-12-29 16:04:36 <jonsykkel> wat would be advantage of that in comparsion to hash links in main chain?
bc7ea998d3676e0a…d3676e0a…2022-11-12 17:40:40 <phf> i wonder if richard chen is a member of black engineers society or the society of professional hispanic engineers?
c83ac0389f8a36d2…9f8a36d2…2022-11-12 17:49:35 <phf> forget fltk, i'm uncovering white supremacism in big science here
60696218c66a4f0d…c66a4f0d…2022-11-16 17:41:09 <asciilifeform> in e.g. late '80s ro, where there was not (and prolly could not have been) a mavrodi, the crown itself ended up setting up mmm-style pyramid.
0bc12e6ba50ea47a…46b43eb5…2022-12-27 16:11:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 19:38:06 phf[awt]: fyi http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-multiline.png
5c0b0a8bcb060727…cb060727…2022-12-27 18:41:19 <phf> like this into mutliple pest messages. i'd like to remove it and send->
4f240765f4356f7a…f4356f7a…2022-12-29 16:04:25 <asciilifeform> ( still suffers from the 'if not errybody propagates'em, availability will suck' problem tho )
6d1579ef81480fd2…4f240765…2022-12-29 16:04:58 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: notmuch afaik. mentioned for thread-completeness.
2395174760696218…60696218…2022-11-16 17:41:18 <asciilifeform> ('caritas', iirc mp commented on subj)
2505ec4fdb096503…db096503…2022-11-12 17:50:21 <asciilifeform> 'He is currently with the Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C. His research interests include stochastic control, Markov processes, and multifunction radar' << 'character: aryan!'(tm)(r)
085d83b9249c000a…85bfcc44…2022-12-27 18:45:30 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-27#1019493 << Doesn't work because incoming messages all go to the __writebuffer variable which goes directly to the client and doesn't feed into notice_and_privmsg_handler().
80d8fd833d39d58b…3d39d58b…2022-12-29 16:06:42 <signpost> jonsykkel: at least worth considering why pest protocol can't communicate the whole pest spec (which includes illustrations) as something represented in the chain.
7c422b218c51ab5e…c38705bb…2022-12-29 16:08:52 <signpost> at any rate, seems like most (all?) agree that binwads of some size need to be skippable, but there's disagreement on whether that line is at size >0 or somewhere higher
677215e58c51ab5e…8c51ab5e…2022-12-29 16:08:59 <jonsykkel> only cuz of practical considerations, cant have infinite sized chain, so line must be drawn in sand somewhere and seems to me simplest possible place to put it at "no blob in chain"
2dfe2450085d83b9…14242762…2022-12-27 18:46:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-27 13:17:42 asciilifeform[6]: but '%' trick dun work, even tho seems that oughta from the coad. asciilifeform insufficient pythonist to see why, tho
8ad8232f80d8fd83…80d8fd83…2022-12-29 16:07:15 signpost finds this bandying of "obvious" lazy on the part of all.
9e43dee8677215e5…7c422b21…2022-12-29 16:09:25 <signpost> can't have infinite sized chain, so need to kill everyone in 2100
9eeffeb4beb1b31b…2505ec4f…2022-11-12 21:01:29 asciilifeform meanwhile discovers that fltk on dulap-gentoo ~not~ statically linked, even with USE="static-libs static"
80aab059a23de1e6…d84d684c…2022-11-16 17:50:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-14 13:21:25 signpost: but yeah, the rapid unscheduled disassembly tends to follow a pattern
3b8bde818ad8232f…8ad8232f…2022-12-29 16:07:40 <signpost> "I am a narcissist and wish you to submit to my bare opinion" is the entire content.
26256a5f9e43dee8…9e43dee8…2022-12-29 16:09:47 <signpost> not being a dick here, just saying this is more an engineering tradeoff subj than cut and dry.
616190617d867dc9…7d867dc9…2022-12-29 16:11:23 <jonsykkel> to some extent exagerating cut and dryness of conclusion for comedic efect
832a3c2c80aab059…34309437…2022-11-16 18:00:10 <signpost> I knew someone that disappeared into a supposed parkinson's med for a while.
f09fd3b2e1f14b2d…e1f14b2d…2022-12-28 15:41:53 <phf> so as far as i understand luby is p2p, and exists essentially on same level as dm. what about something like broadcast inline stuff? like e.g. if you waant to send funny picture of cat, and have it appear inline in logs?
c38705bb3b8bde81…3b8bde81…2022-12-29 16:07:50 <signpost> good, we can all do that one again when we conquer earth
a2cf5a8e61619061…61619061…2022-12-29 16:15:20 <jonsykkel> also, final spec already poised to be reasonably complex, makes sense imo to value simplicity where posible if nothing else
c238093c832a3c2c…a23de1e6…2022-11-16 18:00:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: ate as 'performance dope' or actually suffered from parkinsons ?
db6a9b70f09fd3b2…f09fd3b2…2022-12-28 15:46:32 <phf> on telegram instead of linking to youtube videos, i usually download video with youtubedown or similar, and then send video inline. this way there's no traffic sent to goog, videos stay uncancelable, and it's generally a better experience for everyone involved.
265599a2a2cf5a8e…9a111138…2022-12-29 16:17:39 <signpost> yep. fwiw I don't see that image inlining actually forces anyone to retain images. I can hack my client to silently discard all but a before-after marker around the images.
febfee27a2cf5a8e…a2cf5a8e…2022-12-29 16:20:18 <jonsykkel> true, would still have to walk them during backwards sync though
bb4edef7c238093c…832a3c2c…2022-11-16 18:01:11 <signpost> one oughta really carefully target useful reward when touching any of these
49cca47adb6a9b70…e1f14b2d…2022-12-28 15:55:13 <asciilifeform> phf: simplest thing may be to do what the heathens do and base64 the cat into a multipart (+ some marker magick to show wtf it is, so it not gets printed as text )
33049983265599a2…265599a2…2022-12-29 16:20:18 <signpost> this is perhaps made more cumbersome but nothing prevents it any more than "headers-only" mode in prb
db5a9c80febfee27…febfee27…2022-12-29 16:21:26 <jonsykkel> making full sync take watever number of times longer than otherwise would
39f9152dbb4edef7…bb4edef7…2022-11-16 18:01:41 <signpost> not strictly performance, just something that got stacked in the tower of "baww life hard"
5db6eb0a49cca47a…49cca47a…2022-12-28 15:55:36 <asciilifeform> for that matter, a la ye olde alt.binaries.*
488c185adb5a9c80…33049983…2022-12-29 16:22:09 <signpost> not a proposal. using the example to call the representation of the image arbitrary when talking about whether to retain.
91b58c1edb5a9c80…db5a9c80…2022-12-29 16:28:08 <jonsykkel> if expect that some will store inline blobs and some wont, doesnt this defeat purpose of puting blobs in the chain in first place
4c7f62f95db6eb0a…5db6eb0a…2022-12-28 15:58:41 <asciilifeform> per current draft spec you can stuff up to 18,874,080 byte in there.
28a1f0f7488c185a…b8de3c13…2022-12-29 16:22:18 <phf> that's a technical detail though, we're having an ontological conversation about what the log is, whether or not some kind of binary blobs are its essential properties. is it a pdf or txt
b3bfb51a91b58c1e…91b58c1e…2022-12-29 16:28:59 <jonsykkel> u end up with same availiability problem if enough ppls decide to not store cats
c3af511d310ecd25…310ecd25…2022-11-16 18:02:46 <signpost> subj of dopamine hacks, something I've begun doing lately is placing bets with myself on whether I can accomplish a task by a self-imposed deadline
c1eece654c7f62f9…4c7f62f9…2022-12-28 16:00:34 asciilifeform still ambivalent re: whether this was a good idea; theoretically could make for rapid log db bloat. most folx wouldn't send 18MB of text spamola, but 1 cat can easily do same
a0fc065228a1f0f7…488c185a…2022-12-29 16:22:33 <signpost> yup, agreed. was about to switch to the social question.
1242327bb3bfb51a…f15e5c5e…2022-12-29 16:33:19 <signpost> would it be useful to refocus on the question of push vs pull, rather than storage? that seems more important to me.
896ae5bdb3bfb51a…b3bfb51a…2022-12-29 16:45:04 <jonsykkel> big difference is that if numskull attaches fedora27.iso to important word document it can be removed at any point in time without riping pages from book
562e4571c3af511d…c3af511d…2022-11-16 18:03:29 <signpost> and chopping tasks into pieces as small as possible. attempting to improve my sense of project timeline, and getting the reward kick while sitting at a keyboard for hours.
16a283bfa0fc0652…a0fc0652…2022-12-29 16:23:04 <signpost> what kind of artifact a pest station accumulates (and leaves for others to find, perhaps) is the design question.
29c45c36896ae5bd…669f2c07…2022-12-29 16:46:10 <signpost> to note where there isn't disagreement, sounds like nobody objects to an author being able to specify the intent that an image is inline in the log.
91303227896ae5bd…896ae5bd…2023-01-14 00:42:19 <jonsykkel> cgra: it was a complete coincidence, the word oke has long and rich cultural tradition in the place i come from
b5fcc9aa562e4571…c238093c…2022-11-16 18:04:05 <asciilifeform> on good % of planet, folx not yet discovered dope, still rely on vodka for 'life hard'. arguably moar spectacularly path to zombiefication than any known synthetic dope, but 'traditional' and so no one writes 'psychopharmacology of fxt' piece re subj
940b55e719b9b9ca…19b9b9ca…2022-12-28 16:03:02 <asciilifeform> imho would be much better to do the clever thing re luby fileshares instead, i.e. where they can propagate somehow
3ac6e7b416a283bf…16a283bf…2022-12-29 16:23:30 signpost would go full zealot and call a pest station's job to record History.
e5a5405afde2fb22…1242327b…2022-12-29 16:33:46 <signpost> let's say phf gets the pic of bill gates getting pissed on by epstein's girls
9594dd4029c45c36…29c45c36…2022-12-29 16:47:14 <signpost> two questions remain. one's not super interesting to me, which is whether the byte array rides along with the inline item's hash, or lives elsewhere.
242a7a6a91303227…91303227…2023-01-14 00:43:01 <jonsykkel> dont know how to explain further and any attempt would likely degrade the power of oke
7fdda02bb5fcc9aa…b5fcc9aa…2022-11-16 18:05:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: in some professions, doping moar or less mandatory, esp. if you aint 'born for it'
8aa12a2f940b55e7…db6a9b70…2022-12-28 16:08:42 <phf> why not custom message type, that is equivalent to multipart broadcast, but lets you pack arbitrary binary, with perhaps filename/filetype in the first packet? seems kind of silly to uuencode, when you have control over the underlying packing mechanism
d2415c443ac6e7b4…3ac6e7b4…2022-12-29 16:23:48 <signpost> or at least be the primary index into same.
d21d145c9594dd40…9594dd40…2022-12-29 16:47:35 <signpost> the other is whether this binwad's hash, byte-array, or both are pushed rather than my station having to ask to retrieve them.
2c44c63a242a7a6a…242a7a6a…2023-01-14 00:43:12 <jonsykkel> thanks to my contacts in finland ive been aware of åkesoft for some time though and highly respect their work
bafb15007fdda02b…7c38ebee…2022-11-16 18:05:52 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-16 asciilifeform: 'warriors on drugs' simply not interested in even admitting that folx take'em for reasons which often make sense, i.e. where life in usaschwitz in f
c504bb8e8aa12a2f…8aa12a2f…2022-12-28 16:09:53 <phf> can also not store messages of that type in database, by e.g. unpacking them to fs and just keeping the meta, or discarding them in the long term entirely
2382b2fed2415c44…28a1f0f7…2022-12-29 16:23:53 <phf> from technical perspective you can devise a fairly simple schemes for storing binary blobs separately and just enough meta to recover their packets. so you have A -> B -> <meta for a pdf> -> G on drive, which becomes A->B->C->D->E->F->G in flight
1fd21a1bd21d145c…d21d145c…2022-12-29 16:47:53 <signpost> the bill-gates-piss-pic example is the best argument I can give for why have push.
d66d73e22c44c63a…2c44c63a…2023-01-14 00:45:44 <jonsykkel> lobbes: tanks! pipes game is ripped off from here with some modifications http://oz.kiev.ua/nw/
0fdda7cdbafb1500…7fdda02b…2022-11-16 18:06:57 <asciilifeform> ( on the 'rich' side, tends to be 'want to be awake for 40 hour mp party with whores' rather than 'i fall asleep in front of the console' )
9975b5aac504bb8e…c504bb8e…2022-12-28 16:20:17 <phf> i guess you're trying to make whatever's in log part of a coherent netchain/selfchain, so main question with inline binary: does it appear inline with other messages. so if i have a chain A B* C* D* E, a and e are text messages, but b c d are binary-multipart
0fa2bf43669f2c07…fde2fb22…2022-12-29 16:35:20 <phf> deleting blobs becomes an equivalent of tearing pages out of a book, because it doesn't fit on your shelf, but what that signals is `your book is missing parts`.
6da72f9b1fd21a1b…20b1bd02…2022-12-29 16:49:54 <phf> signpost, the two are tied together intimately, because the question becomes `we have a mechanism for delivering log that has properties X, do we want binary blobs to fully share those properties`
3785d0cb1fd21a1b…1fd21a1b…2022-12-29 16:49:54 <signpost> there's preserving for posterity sure, but also the question of whether a station will ever be able to get important contextualizing bits out to others before perishing.
3adf61a2d66d73e2…d66d73e2…2023-01-14 00:48:28 <jonsykkel> to make it more suited for competition at xtreme skill level
963af9580fdda7cd…562e4571…2022-11-16 18:08:16 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-11-12#1322634 << heh!
a33aac9a9975b5aa…9975b5aa…2022-12-28 16:23:05 <phf> but can also have something like a marker packet A F** E, where marker packet caries meta for file and also hash for its own subthread F->D->C->B
c1c87750f15e5c5e…2382b2fe…2022-12-29 16:26:16 <phf> and if you deleted a pdf, and somebody asks for getpacket C,D,E,F you fail to respond
ee92ead30fa2bf43…0fa2bf43…2022-12-29 16:39:51 <phf> i guess overall my argument hinges on authorial intent, and for their to be an intent. that is concsious construction of a shared document. the case of 2000x2000 jpg reencoded as png or even the general case of not understanding this complicated point that i'm trying to make. you --b gMWE9"4
3d6fbf326da72f9b…3785d0cb…2022-12-29 16:51:11 <signpost> seems very useful for some binary blobs to have.
4c0183743adf61a2…3adf61a2…2023-01-14 09:07:12 <jonsykkel> thank u, lisp stuff is used for rpc (s-expresion sent over unix soket datagrams) and config files
7323b42d963af958…80aab059…2022-11-16 18:09:18 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-11-12 mircea_popescu: the way it's going now we have software written by lumberjacks and trees planted by pencilnecks.
688b8e47a33aac9a…940b55e7…2022-12-28 17:03:34 <asciilifeform> phf: the reason wainot 'binary chained msgs' is this -- still not sure whether parking binariolade in the chain is good idea at all
0c73b211c1c87750…c1c87750…2022-12-29 16:27:18 <phf> but that of course means that /somebody/ has to keep the entire log at all times, which is when you run into the whole 10GB of log with all kinds of lolcats
55dfd6cbee92ead3…ee92ead3…2022-12-29 16:39:51 <phf> can't prevent somebody from attaching linux.iso into their word document, in other words, but i guess i don't really care about those people? what i'm trying to accomplish is if somebody is making some illustration heavy argument, i don't want to discover that all the pics got lost --b gMWE9"4
027d0d053d6fbf32…3d6fbf32…2022-12-29 16:54:45 <phf> right, even in trivial cases of a non-stationary station. post a lolcat, close the lid
d2b4ef7e4c018374…4c018374…2023-01-14 09:07:17 <jonsykkel> program works for most part, i been using it myself on linups and freebsd last couple of months insted of ssh tunnels and such
cda94dcb7323b42d…e16a1967…2022-11-16 18:11:48 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-15#1016414 << help with what?
79fb14b3688b8e47…2dfe2450…2022-12-28 17:04:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 11:02:00 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: still ambivalent re: whether this was a good idea; theoretically could make for rapid log db bloat. most folx wouldn't send 18MB of text spamola, but 1 cat can easily do same
20b1bd0255dfd6cb…55dfd6cb…2022-12-29 16:40:34 <phf> and to some extent the counterargument is `we can't have a rich document, because some idiot is going to attach linux.iso inline`
3d42c262027d0d05…027d0d05…2022-12-29 16:58:39 <phf> this end of the conversation is abstract though, because if binary blob messages don't use the same mechanism as broadcast messages we no longer have anything concrete to go by.
7835808ed2b4ef7e…d2b4ef7e…2023-01-14 09:07:31 <jonsykkel> theres crinkles for sure, some issues with handling both lan/ext ips, no nat penetration and no routing traffic via other greasynodes in case where cant establish direct p2p conection
f1a69b89cda94dcb…7323b42d…2022-11-16 18:12:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 15:42:12 asciilifeform[5]: awt: hm wai would faster serpent help ?
ecdf27c479fb14b3…688b8e47…2022-12-28 17:04:21 <asciilifeform> it's expensive, in the 'blockchain' sense. send a lolcat? nao erry new station has to sit for whoknows how long fetching rest of chain + that lolcat
85a8b3673d42c262…3d42c262…2022-12-29 16:58:49 <phf> the only mechanism discussed so far is having some kind of announcement message that is equivalent to broadcast, but as a payload it has id of file that you can then use to query some binary delivery mechanism. but we don't know anything about this binary delivery mechanism yet
c97c1d477835808e…7835808e…2023-01-14 09:11:51 <jonsykkel> crtdaydreams: there is primitive nat penetration like in pre-hammer pest, it shares address+ports across net, so already does the same thing as smalpest
d9d4dab7ecdf27c4…ecdf27c4…2022-12-28 17:04:29 <asciilifeform> and store it on disk for the next fella, etc
3c560bfbc97c1d47…c97c1d47…2023-01-14 09:12:41 <jonsykkel> nah l2 routing of traffic woudl not be flood routerd, net would find a path that works dynamicaly then "remember it"
849f8015427e7056…cda94dcb…2022-11-16 18:12:53 <awt> 100% cpu was not entirely due to address cast, for one
bab0129dd9d4dab7…d9d4dab7…2022-12-28 17:05:19 <asciilifeform> for that matter, the max multipart counter prolly oughta be e.g. 255, rather than 65535
26fe651f0d37a8f3…0d37a8f3…2022-12-29 17:17:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019867 << will observe, not errythng gets lost at same rate. e.g mp's s&m links mostly 404, but, otoh, 100% of fg schematics still up
f33a10973c560bfb…3c560bfb…2023-01-14 09:13:08 <jonsykkel> then u can send gigabits over that link until any node in that path times out
9095afc1849f8015…427e7056…2022-11-16 18:13:13 <asciilifeform> awt: hm didja end up finding from what it was ?
3190a052bab0129d…bab0129d…2022-12-28 17:06:35 <asciilifeform> lolcats really oughta travel e.g. a-lubystream->b-lubystream->c etc. after c->gimmebinwithhash->b-gimmebinwithhash->a
04fcadcd26fe651f…8e72818e…2022-12-29 17:18:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 11:41:06 phf[jonsykkel|awt]: can't prevent somebody from attaching linux.iso into their word document, in other words, but i guess i don't really care about those people? what i'm trying to accomplish is if somebody is making some illustration heavy argument, i don't want to discover that all the p
e2ca6d6cf33a1097…f33a1097…2023-01-14 09:15:56 <jonsykkel> dunno the term but something like that yes
4eccb07d9095afc1…849f8015…2022-11-16 18:13:38 <awt> I was also under the impession that address cast involved encryption
6a882d183190a052…3190a052…2022-12-28 17:07:20 <asciilifeform> that way folx aint stuck storing'em 4evah, new stations forced to load whole cat simply to get at what sat before it in the chain, and so on
e4ec9c0e04fcadcd…26fe651f…2022-12-29 17:18:44 <asciilifeform> if sumthing is genuinely interesting, even nao folx will keep copies around even when takes some elbow grease. not to mention when takes ~0 in a hypothetical sane p2p apparatus
b8b9fc4c4eccb07d…9095afc1…2022-11-16 18:14:33 <asciilifeform> awt: it obv. does, for the red packet intake (as for all red packets) but 1 deserpenting per (after hmac verifies); then once again for the red addrcast payload (after hmac verifies)
edcb45af6a882d18…6a882d18…2022-12-28 17:07:57 <asciilifeform> phf: picture what the #t logs would weigh if all of mp's 'lolcats' ~had~ to live inside it as bins
76a48679e4ec9c0e…e4ec9c0e…2022-12-29 17:19:30 <asciilifeform> so imho there's a natural filter, which worx rather well when material is very easy to copy (not speaking here of '80s with their bolix tapes 'sank in atlantis' etc)
e7229dd140eea5e1…5c4ea0e0…2023-01-14 16:27:36 <cgra> "Propilkki 2" mentioned only under it's 1999 predecessor's section on the above linked list
f6994c05b8b9fc4c…b8b9fc4c…2022-11-16 18:14:47 <asciilifeform> so to asciilifeform wasn't clear wai seemed to eat so much moar cpu
f07afa8076a48679…76a48679…2022-12-29 17:21:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019874 << no reason why not have pushed-jpg in ~direct~ msgs, to l1. and a 'push this photo of gestapo behind my chair to erry peer!' cmd, if one likes
5f176afceb39100a…eb39100a…2023-01-14 16:30:18 <jonsykkel> "Inva-taxi is a freeware game that makes fun of people with disabilities."
daf4f5a0f6994c05…f6994c05…2022-11-16 18:15:30 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's understanding, in a correctly-implemented pestron (with or without addrcast), most cpu time oughta be expected in hmac
bcc1e5e6d2a34836…d2a34836…2022-12-28 17:10:52 <asciilifeform> this was why, in draft spec, asciilifeform defined 'binary msgs are always direct'
50f1df5df07afa80…04fcadcd…2022-12-29 17:22:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 11:49:02 signpost: the bill-gates-piss-pic example is the best argument I can give for why have push.
3dc044cbdaf4f5a0…4eccb07d…2022-11-16 18:17:56 <awt> 100% cpu was seen in at least one case due to a 'prod loop' that could occur under very specific circumstances. Forgetting the exact details at the moment.
55d28e2fbcc1e5e6…bcc1e5e6…2022-12-28 17:11:22 asciilifeform aint certain precisely how to 'solve lolcat problem' but is quite sure of 'how not to'
5121bfe350f1df5d…f07afa80…2022-12-29 17:23:13 <asciilifeform> ( from philosophical pov, pest supports both push ('here's a packet') and pull ('hey, i heard there was a $hash, nao plox getdata $hash') fwiw )
52389f6c58e4c4f4…e7229dd1…2023-01-14 16:35:58 <cgra> a board game 'Star of Africa' also on the list. here's a fishwrap intro
d05e7ed758e4c4f4…58e4c4f4…2023-01-14 16:38:01 <jonsykkel> ah we had this game in kindergarten https://www.ark.no/boker/unknown-Den-forsvunne-diamanten-7031650150916
c2b561c955d28e2f…a33aac9a…2022-12-28 17:11:35 <phf> i dunno, sounds like asciilifeformism :> `can't solve this problem in elegant way, therefore will punt on it entirely
5bca85355121bfe3…5121bfe3…2022-12-29 17:24:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019880 << there was a napkin-level thread which cannot atm find, where 'luby has overhead, so only makes sense for $size, so what response to getbinwithhash oughta be is a tree of hashes until leaves represent frag with $size'
c795b11bd05e7ed7…d05e7ed7…2023-01-14 16:38:43 <jonsykkel> the finns invented all the good stuff apparently
263fcee24f1a7d8e…4f1a7d8e…2022-11-16 18:18:22 asciilifeform will comment further after tries awt's latest patch
a1490617c2b561c9…55d28e2f…2022-12-28 17:12:21 <asciilifeform> phf: imho propagating request for bin-with-$hash to peers, and if 1 of'em has the thing in cache, you get a lubystream -- is the rough solution
22ddd6505bca8535…50f1df5d…2022-12-29 17:25:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 12:00:05 phf[awt]: the only mechanism discussed so far is having some kind of announcement message that is equivalent to broadcast, but as a payload it has id of file that you can then use to query some binary delivery mechanism. but we don't know anything about this binary delivery mechanism yet
a70b4354c795b11b…c795b11b…2023-01-15 04:17:01 <jonsykkel> maybe cgra can enlighten us re the fall of the finns
52338ba0263fcee2…963af958…2022-11-16 18:18:44 <signpost> current blatta doing fine over here on two stations
f223435822ddd650…5bca8535…2022-12-29 17:25:27 <asciilifeform> no concretes tho, afaik these will require empirical #s
09aff29eb32cdea9…d8d57152…2023-01-14 17:03:49 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-13#1020323 << just crunched the numbers and for me they're about $0.90 / dozen (from 10 hens)
7fb5ca3ba70b4354…b32cdea9…2023-01-15 07:11:15 cgra may have lived under a rock, but can try, with some help. can i get a list of the top finnish cool-things of the '90s?
eba583a1a70b4354…a70b4354…2023-01-15 11:24:05 <jonsykkel> linuks, ssh, irc, nokia phones, inva-taxi, list goes on
217f3ba752338ba0…9ec6e60b…2022-11-16 22:03:58 <phf> asciilifeform, locklin is oddly dense on your point, but i'm starting to suspect it's not an intentional jwz-ism, man is genuinely lacking some of the shared priors.
01c3f511f2234358…85a8b367…2022-12-29 17:27:00 <phf> is getbinwithhash going to follow the same 1-for-1 policy?
6a6ad6d309aff29e…8baab92f…2023-01-14 16:58:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-13 17:00:38 awt: Current price of eggs in CR: $3.70 per dozon.
9caac466eba583a1…eba583a1…2023-02-03 14:25:09 <jonsykkel> if enemy can zap at all, they can just zap all ur bloks no
1dadc4d7217f3ba7…217f3ba7…2022-11-16 22:06:20 <phf> e.g. sometime in the early days of tmsr we've formulated the counterparty problem, which is a foundational philosophical issue, to be studied along with zero sum games and rational agents. without fully groking it, the conversation turns into "it's backed by gold, says so on the label, duh! the other n-goxes obviously were
112bd0b9325285bb…325285bb…2022-12-28 17:13:11 <asciilifeform> iirc signpost had the beginnings of an algo , in 'napkin stage'.
fa1a63cd01c3f511…f2234358…2022-12-29 17:28:12 <asciilifeform> phf: the notion iirc was that it won't, when comes down to level of 'leaf' (you get n luby packets, of which you need m, or until say 'enuff'. again need concretes to say what n/m oughta be)
64d78c0a9caac466…f634d64a…2023-02-03 14:26:55 <signpost> depends whether we're modeling DDoS or packet-analysis/silent-dropping
a30825449caac466…9caac466…2023-02-03 14:29:58 <jonsykkel> yep, i mean specificaly re the picky zapping. guess they can make it 3% less obvious that zapping is going on
0ed69c98112bd0b9…c2b561c9…2022-12-28 17:14:45 <phf> sidestreams and ephemera, can e.g. put meta in the log, here should be elephant.png image/png 1234bytes f13d… hash, and then separate mechanism for `can has file with hash f13d…` or even spam along with meta packet `oh by the way here's all the data you need for the meta i just sent`
539a7a53112bd0b9…112bd0b9…2022-12-28 17:15:01 <asciilifeform> ftr here's anuther, entirely different, 'inelegant solution' -- binary multipart msgs, but erry single one has to carry nethash/selfhash of the immed. preceding text msg., so that stations are able to 'skip' it when walking back the chain.
224d17e3fa1a63cd…fa1a63cd…2022-12-29 17:28:53 <asciilifeform> 1 of the reasons why the luby transfer absolutely gotta be direct-only (tho can be from >1 peer in parallel, sending diff frags)
a4db957c10e10561…10e10561…2023-01-15 14:30:41 <cgra> '90s list seems to also contain the first(?) graphical www browser
6a3c411ca3082544…9113539f…2023-02-03 14:32:20 <signpost> just worthwhile to evaluate whether this encoding does anything, or whether it'd be better to just piss file-chunks as fast as possible, and maaaaybe have this thing available as the tool it's designed for, to handle squeeking out information when under heavy loss.
a09a68d1a3082544…a3082544…2023-02-03 19:51:30 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022248 << if u can forge the ignore packet src ip to update AT, u can forge handshake ack in same way
72afd90deb52c5c3…eb52c5c3…2022-11-16 22:07:20 <phf> you're consistently trying to make that point, but i think that you might as well be speaking foreign language
b16236670ed69c98…539a7a53…2022-12-28 17:15:26 <asciilifeform> phf: right, as asciilifeform understands this was general idea in signpost's algo
1afac9d5224d17e3…224d17e3…2022-12-29 17:29:19 <asciilifeform> if you flood-route'em , no amt of net bw will ever suffice
44a6448fa4db957c…09aff29e…2023-01-15 15:17:07 <billymg> looks like lifeboat finally sunk (or BingoBoingo is doing maintenance), billymg.com down until i restore from backups elsewhere
cf718dac6bab889d…5cad1388…2023-02-03 14:27:42 <cgra> signpost, say you randomize it. wouldn't some slip through eventually?
e9ee8b2b6a3c411c…6a3c411c…2023-02-03 14:32:44 signpost happy to say the thing doesn't do what's needed if it doesn't.
844291773a8467d0…3a8467d0…2022-11-16 22:42:51 <asciilifeform> fwiw locklin personally friends w/ at least 1 shitcoin peddler, so likely has ~impenetrable mental block on subj, genuinely believes in 'cryptocurrencies'(tm) plurality etc
c24bc6fb1afac9d5…1afac9d5…2022-12-29 17:30:21 <asciilifeform> ( why luby to begin with? precisely so can be asynchronous and order-not-matters and occasional-loss-not-matters )
4f5b827b44a6448f…cefcc419…2023-01-15 15:11:54 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-27 asciilifeform: iirc 'lifeboat' was a leased box operated by BingoBoingo pro bono
2b308d95cf718dac…6bab889d…2023-02-03 14:28:02 <signpost> if DDoS, the encoding can be tuned to make use of whatever loss rate, can be 99.999%. if there's any signal getting through, reassembly of the message will be possible over some amount of time.
31773157e9ee8b2b…e9ee8b2b…2023-02-03 14:34:08 <signpost> another thing that oughta be modeled out is the swarm download aspect. the fact that separate nodes can create compatible streams of a given file makes for easy, uncoordinated collaboration to get another node a file.
e2e059d084429177…84429177…2022-11-16 22:44:35 <asciilifeform> his continued interest in the 'space' is hard-predicated on 'not getting that point', so likely he aint aboutta.
ac64ed64c24bc6fb…c24bc6fb…2022-12-29 17:32:14 <asciilifeform> the reason why 'need empiricals' is that there are unknowns ( what, for instance, happens if the sender and receiver have pipes of severely mismatched bw ? )
9113539f2b308d95…2b308d95…2023-02-03 14:28:54 <signpost> cgra: randomizing, keeping a check-block hopper full and limiting transmission to a rate which ensures hopper doesn't run dry, all those kinds of mitigations.
c702543f06e1401b…06e1401b…2023-02-12 18:50:59 <jonsykkel> cgra: i dont undersand "clones selfchain into netchain", how u mean?
cf670358e2e059d0…e2e059d0…2022-11-16 22:45:16 <asciilifeform> it's a bitter pill, if think about it -- that there aint 'cryptocurrencies'(tm), there's (disused) bitcoin + buncha scamola
c8e1acc508a6f521…0ed69c98…2022-12-28 17:16:20 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019530 << this is precisely what i picture, and it's highly disappointing that a signifcant portion of log is useless, on account of binary blobs and pastes expiring
beb87d4217f66a17…44a6448f…2023-01-15 15:33:47 <billymg> awt: i've had a physical copy of that on my bookshelf for the longest time and the strange thing is i can't even remember where it came from
5f9907716c90ec77…cc89a4ca…2023-02-03 15:44:49 asciilifeform not grasps how the 'enemy knows which packets to drop' problem could be relevant outside of a compromised key
bbbd8dc3a590d7fc…a590d7fc…2023-02-03 19:53:59 <asciilifeform> yet anuther reason wai you want to discretize subchunks -- say you switched cafes mid-download
aa68d721c702543f…52f1cf37…2023-02-12 18:53:39 <cgra> jonsykkel not sure why, but when i'm stuck syncing, it's often because netchain in crtdaydreams's message is same as selfchain, but by other indications, it should've been somebody else's message
f4739d4fc8e1acc5…79fb14b3…2022-12-28 17:17:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:09:23 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: phf: picture what the #t logs would weigh if all of mp's 'lolcats' ~had~ to live inside it as bins
99db50845f990771…6c90ec77…2023-02-03 15:45:29 <signpost> yeah, I guess you'd have to know some luby-farts are going on at all, before deciding to drop the easiest to generate
5f2740f9bbbd8dc3…bbbd8dc3…2023-02-03 19:54:28 <asciilifeform> once yer peers run outta the given 1MB, they'll send the next one to yer new AT
55fb06efaa68d721…aa68d721…2023-02-12 18:55:05 <cgra> (maybe i gotta look again/closer, to make a precise claim)
185b19f6b57c1651…b57c1651…2023-02-12 18:57:16 <jonsykkel> i chagned somthing around that code in last update gota take look
4ea0852bb57c1651…a41eb516…2023-02-12 18:58:05 <phf> awt, ah apologies for misrepresentation. my impression was that there was a major upgrade drive sometime in november, and then mostly quite. so if i were to install the most recent version of blatta it's going to have nursery set to 0 out of the box?
f731d00e0da19f4b…bafb1500…2022-11-16 22:45:45 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-10-29 asciilifeform: shitcoinism is inevitable , like fungus in a grain silo (and i suspect that if it were possible to invest in the fungus -- some folx would do so) but is exactly in the role of fungus.
32f5a90ff4739d4f…08a6f521…2022-12-28 17:17:11 <asciilifeform> phf: imho the clean solution is still 'file share' with cache, and a handy way to link to items in same from text msgs; rather than parking the cats in the chain proper
5720b4902cc5c94b…a41e5b28…2022-12-29 17:34:53 <phf> there's other unknowns, like for example i'm sending only one broadcast out(but i send ignore to three other stations, so they send me stuff back), and there are whole periods of dark, why? who knows. when my packets are silently lostt.
4520f42b2cc5c94b…2cc5c94b…2022-12-29 17:35:03 <asciilifeform> ideally oughta have some way to tell sender roughly what speed of ball yer able to catch; and conversely, for sender to be able to 'slow the balls'
1aba8f88a332146e…beb87d42…2023-01-15 15:40:55 <billymg> well i'm not one to ignore coincidences, should probably get around to reading it
c78624b299db5084…99db5084…2023-02-03 15:46:02 <signpost> but I'd think the lubystreams would look different from the outside. constant packet spray, variable time between packets
6a5251355f2740f9…5f2740f9…2023-02-03 19:54:45 <asciilifeform> (given as that's where you'll be asking for the next MB from)
6bd69fdf185b19f6…185b19f6…2023-02-12 19:01:12 <jonsykkel> ok it dosnt even set the netchain varible on recv only send
f0110d4832f5a90f…c8e1acc5…2022-12-28 17:17:22 <phf> the situation was understandable when it was irc, and still we were trying to make mechanisms around it. now own protocol, but the attitude is `eh, it'll be solved somehow`
8e398bb95720b490…4520f42b…2022-12-29 17:36:20 <asciilifeform> phf: fwiw asciilifeform's original spec was braindamaged, in that it asked for getdata to be issued to the particular peer who had sent the msg that triggered it
15c2140e1aba8f88…1aba8f88…2023-01-15 16:13:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020391 << demoscene, everything is secondary. assembly the largest demoscene party was (is still) held in helsinki. which is also the reason why you can take any random fin lastname, add "nvidia" or "intel" to it, and get a google hit for "se .P<r-&r )
p<]z
5f4cb552c78624b2…5f990771…2023-02-03 15:46:10 <asciilifeform> snoop does not know which blacket packets contain what, tho
b4e5386d6a525135…6a525135…2023-02-03 19:55:34 <asciilifeform> (and you'll be re-requesting the interrupted subchunk, obv)
437192d03e8adeae…3e8adeae…2022-12-28 17:18:56 <asciilifeform> phf: there are several possib. solutions, i expect we'll pick 1 (and not necessarily of the above). simply imho oughta think before baking it in and potentially 'oh hey n00b? go and request, 1 packet at a time, log that weights 10TB, then come back'
a99d0e5d8e398bb9…8e398bb9…2022-12-29 17:37:07 <asciilifeform> this will give perma-holes if specifically a<->b link is lossy (which is how a missed msg from b to start with)
bddf1bc115c2140e…4f5b827b…2023-01-15 16:17:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 06:25:29 jonsykkel: linuks, ssh, irc, nokia phones, inva-taxi, list goes on
87ca0ee25f4cb552…5f4cb552…2023-02-03 15:46:31 <asciilifeform> even if can make good guess somehow that packet p is part of a luby stream -- has nfi what part
a64a6ec4b4e5386d…b4e5386d…2023-02-03 19:58:15 <asciilifeform> the main reason you gotta, afaik, have the hash tree, tho, is to readily detect poisoning.
81be3e7b641fd9fb…1c93810d…2022-11-17 16:54:03 <awt> https://twitter.com/croesus_btc/status/1593274010434871297?s=46&t=IOtDdUfrq2Af6c0wZi5qPw << some bezzle math
df76012aa99d0e5d…a99d0e5d…2022-12-29 17:38:36 <asciilifeform> theoretically, tho, if erry station correctly handles getdata and prod -- you can 'talk into unplugged cable' for an hour and eventually folx will see what you had said, tho
4c06b1d8bddf1bc1…15c2140e…2023-01-15 16:24:41 <phf> i also suspect it's the reason why nordic and eastern european countries stopped producing tech talent the way they did in the 90s. hacker culture in Europe is city culture with lots of knowledge transfer via various hacker parties, lan parties, clubs and unix rooms. but all the ol m}qQ|ifeLQS>_E
3925066c87ca0ee2…c78624b2…2023-02-03 15:46:37 <signpost> maybe not a problem, just figured it oughta be pushed on from this side, see if stands.
51c27c8aa64a6ec4…a64a6ec4…2023-02-03 19:59:16 <asciilifeform> otherwise you can sit there and, having received over9000 chunks, be left wondering wai never converges.
f83f3dadb3fb4a01…b3fb4a01…2023-02-12 19:04:48 <jonsykkel> too bad al my pakets are fucked since begining of time
6ea1309681be3e7b…81be3e7b…2022-11-17 16:58:05 <awt> Good article on free diving whaack. But not good enough to get me to try that crazy shit.
2f3a2ea74c06b1d8…4c06b1d8…2023-01-15 16:24:41 <phf> dfags got poached by megacorps and relocated to seattle or similar. m}qQ|ifeLQS>_E
42013bef4c06b1d8…a4db957c…2023-01-15 16:43:57 <cgra> phf, so hacker parties turned into gaming parties? what assembly's history page suggests
71aeceee3925066c…3925066c…2023-02-03 15:47:06 <signpost> the "what part" would be inferrable via timing if packets leave the station as soon as they're encoded, right?
d994b31651c27c8a…51c27c8a…2023-02-03 20:00:32 <asciilifeform> whereas if yer expecting to converge on a 1MB chunk of known hash, and sumbody's already send you over9000x the nominally-req'd luby chunks, and still not converges -- you'll know that 1 or more of the suppliers is fucking you
e4ba548f6ea13096…0da19f4b…2022-11-17 18:50:12 <asciilifeform> awt: that goxes 'print' coin was screamingly obvious even in the era of the original gox. but somehow each implosion does 0 to discourage next batch of morons.
f41827400ceb008d…45d0e776…2022-12-28 17:33:32 signpost put some cycles into the python version of the fountain code impl over the past few days, will post a new vpatch
d3735a3242013bef…2f3a2ea7…2023-01-15 16:49:28 <phf> this is way after my time, but i think there's assembly winter and assembly summer. summer is still the original demoparty format
f539d7e871aeceee…71aeceee…2023-02-03 15:48:12 <signpost> the encoded packets have a linear variability in difficulty to produce. another xor-encoding edge from encoded block to underlying message block would add same amount of encoding time.
545b4a1471aeceee…87ca0ee2…2023-02-03 15:48:18 <asciilifeform> aint the ~whole point of lubyism to make order (as well as loss of some arbitrary %) not matter ?
90fa6018d994b316…d994b316…2023-02-03 20:02:11 <asciilifeform> nao, the ~clever~ way to cut this knot would be if you could somehow nail down, via hash tree, the expected hashes of individual luby chunks
63092cd0260ee1f9…4ea0852b…2023-02-12 19:25:08 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023087 << no disrespect, that's what i meant by `on back burner`. things come up in logs, like we just had an extensive conversation about addresscast, that didn't have a conclusion, but provided some of the directions of thought.
ed65ea1a260ee1f9…260ee1f9…2023-02-13 06:41:27 <jonsykkel> unpx: crtdaydreams: AAAAAAAAAAAAACHHHHHHHHHHTUNG!!!!!! CRITICAL update, fixing unset netchain: http://zzz.st/progz/
fe3fd787f4182740…f4182740…2022-12-28 17:34:14 <signpost> added demonstrator commands "squirt" and "slurp", and lib's going to be called squirt.
8acb3b1b2580bb8a…2580bb8a…2022-12-29 17:43:39 <phf> which is the purpose of http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=from%3Aphf+bump&chan=pest :D
06920a2dd3735a32…d3735a32…2023-01-15 16:51:19 <phf> there's always been the lan party element, i remember having a q1 session where it was me and a bunch of fins, and the jokes turned into pretty aggressive "winter campaign against the russians lol" but it was still all in good fun
7a6b8d70545b4a14…f539d7e8…2023-02-03 15:49:05 <signpost> *if and only if the enemy cannot discern packets.
0a8aee5b90fa6018…90fa6018…2023-02-03 20:02:19 <asciilifeform> rather than arbitrary cut into e.g. 1MB
6a703b1e63092cd0…72b0f1a6…2023-02-12 19:25:11 <awt> phf: if you are up to the latest patch address cast is disabled by default but if enabled will randomly within a configurable interval generate a blast for everyone who is considered offline (no ping for 63 seconds by default) - the order buffer timeout is *not* set to zero by default (I think this is what you mean by nurs
d06dc9d863092cd0…5c6882ba…2023-02-12 19:26:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 13:50:20 awt: phf: I've released 2 bugfix versions since - addresscast is still spammy but is disabled by default. Wrt address cast improvements what would you like to see tried first? To me the first obv. fix is not to send 'all at once,' but randomly *per peer*.
5ab3d5e9ed65ea1a…ed65ea1a…2023-02-13 06:44:37 <jonsykkel> i will now, as the only reasonable course of action, commit sudoku in town square as atonement for this mistake
4e28f399fe3fd787…fe3fd787…2022-12-28 17:35:28 <signpost> going to see about going ahead today and doing the multiprocessing port I disavowed in my last blog post
ee8e07c58acb3b1b…d752992e…2022-12-29 17:43:57 <asciilifeform> rright, but evidently not 100% (tho asciilifeform not knows whether phf's station currently implements 100% getdata & prod)
2fb7a99106920a2d…42013bef…2023-01-15 16:51:52 <cgra> finnish mag "mikrobitti" (apparently started in '84) originally used to have programming articles, while later turned into a more generic consumer electronics crap. changed then their name to "MB", but it's nowadays back to the original name. not sure what's exactly in there today
a18d88637a6b8d70…7a6b8d70…2023-02-03 15:49:15 <signpost> and I'm pushing on whether the timing leak makes sufficiently discernibl
1a479db30a8aee5b…0a8aee5b…2023-02-03 20:02:48 <asciilifeform> there'll still be a discrete subchunk size, tho, much larger than indiv. packet, tho
211429c76a703b1e…6a703b1e…2023-02-12 19:25:11 <awt> ury). Additionally added support for faster serpent implementation, splitting messages
8d3fddb65ab3d5e9…27d3be67…2023-02-13 07:49:14 <cgra> jonsykkel, will you provide outdoor town square photos of 1) clean sudoku page, 2) same sudoku completed, as proof?
34942ce54e28f399…4e28f399…2022-12-28 17:38:21 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019544 << two questions which should be answered independently. one's whether media blocks are part of the chain. two's how to efficiently, fault-tolerantly, etc., create broad availability of big binwads.
f8706096ee8e07c5…8acb3b1b…2022-12-29 17:45:16 <phf> i send out getdata for whatever packet to all comers
77b56a2f2fb7a991…06920a2d…2023-01-15 16:52:17 <phf> but as this page indicates, they split of lan party into its own party, and that got quickly baught out by some corporate e-sport grifter
6ff2c0a21a479db3…1a479db3…2023-02-03 20:03:01 <asciilifeform> (or tree itself would have to be impractically large)
37497fc7211429c7…211429c7…2023-02-12 19:25:13 <awt> with newlines into multiple messages and splitting long outgoing messages into multiple packets.
d46394847989a011…63092cd0…2023-02-12 19:26:03 <phf> as the owner of the main pest implementation, kudos and respect for that, you have the option to communicate and or act as a result of such conversations. my current impression though is that you're letting myself and asciilifeform banter about these kind of corner cases, while per տ`J|ygcXQs]xY)
5dea948934942ce5…34942ce5…2022-12-28 17:38:34 signpost has been focused for some time on the problem of latter.
447bfdb334942ce5…f4739d4f…2022-12-28 17:39:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:17:31 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019530 << this is precisely what i picture, and it's highly disappointing that a signifcant portion of log is useless, on account of binary blobs and pastes expiring
10993471f8706096…f8706096…2022-12-29 17:46:42 <phf> and i've never gotten prod request from anyone, but i handle prod responses
29572cbe77b56a2f…77b56a2f…2023-01-15 16:53:09 <phf> cgra, there's an element of time and place to it, i'm sure. like we had similar magazines in ru (computerra is one), which started as a programmer mag, and turned into consumer one by the end of 90s
240e8f3549cb8190…545b4a14…2023-02-03 15:49:23 <asciilifeform> so buffer'em and send at fixed rate (which you gotta do anyway if width of receiving and transmitting pipes differ)
e5f48335d4639484…d4639484…2023-02-12 19:26:03 <phf> haps waiting for the next version of spec to come out, where hopefully such details will have from above prescriptions. տ`J|ygcXQs]xY)
f6116a34447bfdb3…5dea9489…2022-12-28 17:50:17 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019523 << I agree that it's not clear why non-text content types are special and outside the chain. not that it's obvious they should be part of the chain, but there's not a hard principle here atm.
173bf29a10993471…ee8e07c5…2022-12-29 17:47:04 <asciilifeform> hmm not even jonsykkel ? iirc his sends prods
6de6574e29572cbe…2fb7a991…2023-01-15 16:53:29 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020408 << haha
2ae99ffee5f48335…e5f48335…2023-02-12 19:26:09 <phf> but as things stand, the spec is in transitionary state, and so necessary is blatta. quirky protocol behaviors have been unearthed as a result of running blatta and other clients in prod, that need to be solved systematically. particularly if we're talking about advertising and bri R\)QoFweR qKj
a66f7df56fbce4c5…dd8d5023…2023-02-13 08:06:00 <unpx> hm, my station missed a message after upgrade. Will try to debug this.
aad44714f6116a34…447bfdb3…2022-12-28 17:51:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:04:45 asciilifeform[5]: phf: the reason wainot 'binary chained msgs' is this -- still not sure whether parking binariolade in the chain is good idea at all
54314ddd173bf29a…10993471…2022-12-29 17:47:25 <phf> i'm not peered with him yet, because i still can't remember my gpg password :D
3006ddd56de6574e…bddf1bc1…2023-01-15 16:54:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 11:52:38 phf[deedbot|awt]: there's always been the lan party element, i remember having a q1 session where it was me and a bunch of fins, and the jokes turned into pretty aggressive "winter campaign against the russians lol" but it was still all in good fun
8c66f9b42ae99ffe…2ae99ffe…2023-02-12 19:26:09 <phf> nging lusers into the mix. so the way i see it you can either actively participate in the changes, or wait till the next full spec is released. either option is an entirely proper and viable, but the later is called `on back burner`. R\)QoFweR qKj
cf9aea46aad44714…e25b0d1f…2022-12-28 17:50:56 <asciilifeform> signpost: simply on acct of their mass. 'quantity has a quality of its own'(tm)
8e771c4e3006ddd5…29572cbe…2023-01-15 16:55:53 <phf> i was at some point certain that i'm going to get my ass kicked by a bunch of fins at the end of the game :> but they all came to gg me , and then we drank
4d93a86fbeb54b1f…b0e19a9a…2023-02-03 15:49:51 <signpost> if that's satisfactory to you too, sounds good.
95e6c355af334886…914c642a…2023-02-03 20:09:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 11:59:43 cgra[jonsykkel]: i'll try rephrasing sometime soon, atm bit busy off-desk
4935e9528c66f9b4…8c66f9b4…2023-02-12 19:26:48 <phf> awt, i'm on a janky setup with an older version of pest.lisp, so i have to prewrite my responses :D
33fa2890cf9aea46…cf9aea46…2022-12-28 17:51:21 <asciilifeform> would like to avoid trb-style 'buy a new hdd and come back in 3 months' ugh
837e846c45d14fce…54314ddd…2022-12-29 17:48:00 <phf> i'm kind of getting concerned, but i was also sick for a week, so hopefull once my head clears out a bit…
8bde1bcd45d14fce…45d14fce…2022-12-29 17:48:11 <asciilifeform> could try setting up a smalpest locally to test prods, if you've the cycles
af8dc29a95e6c355…af334886…2023-02-03 20:10:21 <cgra> current randomization of edges between message blocks and aux blocks is by drawing exactly 3 aux blocks to each message block.
82634c964935e952…7989a011…2023-02-12 19:38:14 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023109 << indeed. Frustrating thing is that spammy though address cast is, I don't believe it's been used once (could be wrong). Could cut back the broadcast interval quite a bit and siginificantly reduce spam.
ca51d2b0b4ec5ce8…00000000…2023-02-18 02:10:14 <crtdaydreams> ZX47oOlCwWTPyIpowGh5VMkB9sbAwJO+HiLcp4gmIxVgxobeJgH+k+mlYzvAHCwNHyF7grRx2DfJmWpyaeFsXg==
694c2ef433fa2890…f6116a34…2022-12-28 17:53:00 <signpost> 100% agree. there are a few alternatives there. one would be that a reference message type be born (also useful for linking to text logs) with a content type of the referenced material.
7d67cba3db6afc18…8e771c4e…2023-01-15 16:58:06 <phf> because it was a dm, but then it turned into 4 against 1, and it was still attrition
e34434da3ec70b54…beb54b1f…2023-02-03 15:50:53 <asciilifeform> aha. buffer in such way that a burst containing mix of 'easy' and 'hard' chunks is pre-genned and then sent
28d2579caf8dc29a…af8dc29a…2023-02-03 20:12:39 <cgra> but if coming from on-the-fly angle, you'd have to first draw 'how many message blocks for this aux block', perhaps using the aux block itself as a seed of sorts, and after that draw as many message blocks
2564426582634c96…d06dc9d8…2023-02-12 19:39:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 14:27:30 phf[awt|deedbot]: but as things stand, the spec is in transitionary state, and so necessary is blatta. quirky protocol behaviors have been unearthed as a result of running blatta and other clients in prod, that need to be solved systematically. particularly if we're talking about advertisi
dcc287702980359a…6fbce4c5…2023-02-13 10:07:35 <cgra> awt, peering info for you if want. i might have some blatta details to ask about, but perhaps not generally interesting points
abcf3422088f6aa3…088f6aa3…2022-11-18 16:52:14 asciilifeform meanwhile tested that ada xcb binding, found precisely same problem as with xlib
b4ba24b0694c2ef4…694c2ef4…2022-12-28 17:53:47 <signpost> perhaps binary media is a "subthread" chain, and my lightweight client with only 2gb of flash can ignore all non-text links.
da7f9caeb0abc620…8bde1bcd…2022-12-29 17:49:21 <asciilifeform> phf: worst case, 1 of us takes a drive to where the other is, and 'key party', asciilifeform remembers what phf looks like
57a16f687d67cba3…7d67cba3…2023-01-15 17:01:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020415 << oh yeah, my music school was on the way to Propaganda lan club, which is where teamrus congregated. polosaty and co went to win early e-sports quake competitions on the world level, they'd kick my ass all the time, but you know 1v1 }PGO?7ĩ7^g ͑*[ACFg ʂO
9947c076e34434da…e34434da…2023-02-03 15:56:45 <asciilifeform> hypothetically not even need buffer, if can generate 'easy' and 'hard' chunks in parallel, avoiding 'interesting' idle intervals on the line
9a4b1d7928d2579c…28d2579c…2023-02-03 20:16:36 <cgra> in theory, a single aux block can have 0..<message block count> edges while every message block has exactly 3 edges (with current ocpy params)
e21f655225644265…82634c96…2023-02-12 19:39:49 <awt> I spent a lot of time getting it to a functional state and I would really like to see it get used.
96955e91dcc28770…dcc28770…2023-02-13 10:16:56 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023114 << address cast somewhat useful here, because my included AT entry above is already outdated
ff3573fcabcf3422…f1a69b89…2022-11-18 16:53:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-12 22:17:48 asciilifeform[6]: finally realized that fltk author's 'statically linked' claim is bogus, thing still expects dynamic x11, xft, etc. may be possible to cheat w/ e.g. dlopen tho.
a9a91506b4ba24b0…33fa2890…2022-12-28 17:53:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: for chained msgs, asciilifeform intended 'netchain' for 'link to log line being replied to'
57c090ebda7f9cae…67873062…2022-12-29 17:50:08 <shinohai> phf: "You need a man that knows how to handle your prod responses ...."
c410ffe857a16f68…57a16f68…2023-01-15 17:01:25 <phf> 10-2/10-3. those fins obviously played, but they were casuals. }PGO?7ĩ7^g ͑*[ACFg ʂO
bf57788857a16f68…3006ddd5…2023-01-15 17:02:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 11:59:27 cgra[jonsykkel]: were you winning? :)
5fd45f399947c076…9947c076…2023-02-03 15:57:33 <asciilifeform> then all you gotta do is match the rate to the receiver's
98c0e7fc9a4b1d79…9a4b1d79…2023-02-03 20:19:55 <cgra> in above on-the-fly model, ocpy Header.message_block_edges and Header.aux_block_edges don't exist
66360521e21f6552…4935e952…2023-02-12 19:45:43 <phf> well, i've implemented a handful of asciilifeform's brilliant ideas before, and know from experience that they should be treated more like flights of inspiration, rather than direct prescription. requires liberal applicatino of hammer and metal file (tm)(c)
dec85f5296955e91…806a8584…2023-02-13 10:18:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 14:41:07 awt: I spent a lot of time getting it to a functional state and I would really like to see it get used.
609dab97ff3573fc…abcf3422…2022-11-18 16:53:24 <asciilifeform> i.e. dun link at all with musltronic gnat; links dynamically with conventional; if linker given '-static', then not at all (xcb dun seem to have a static variant, tho entirely unclear wainot, nominally it implements the localsocket protocol rather than invoking xlib)
06856bbba9a91506…b4ba24b0…2022-12-28 17:54:04 <signpost> the threading mechanism gives ya "episodes of series" etc
69f531935fd45f39…1755bc56…2023-02-03 15:58:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 12:34:01 phf[awt]: here, catch!
1cdb776c98c0e7fc…98c0e7fc…2023-02-03 20:24:46 <cgra> (single aux block edges theoretical max 3 * <message block count> with current ocpy params, made mistake above)
ee2049b9dec85f52…96955e91…2023-02-13 11:34:49 <cgra> if, as specced in current 0xfa draft (4.2.1.3, 4.2.1.2), timestamps in a chain were never decreasing, would it guarantee a reasonable order of messages if ordered primarily by timestamp and secodarily by chain dependency? or were there known issues with this appro
0e911d9a609dab97…7aacde45…2022-11-18 16:55:11 <phf> asciilifeform, ah but you've failed to observe the significance of 66-59 being 7!
7812a68806856bbb…a9a91506…2022-12-28 17:54:37 <asciilifeform> ( the current paste-link-to-logotron thing is 'not from a good life', from the forced linearity of irc )
858cb758c076a826…b0abc620…2022-12-29 17:50:28 <phf> if i permanently forgotten the password that would be Very Bad™. i have backups keys encrypted with it, etc.
eb2345fab812f598…c410ffe8…2023-01-15 17:03:56 <phf> when counter stirke came out, lots of casuals started coming to lan clubs, and i was making money to buy clothes and snacks and computer parts on 1v1 2v2 games for money. real lan rat
9135e30469f53193…3ec70b54…2023-02-03 15:57:42 <signpost> ah yeah, the more parallelism you have going in encoding the better off you are on this front, as well as the obvious one of having more throughput.
ce6caf341cdb776c…1cdb776c…2023-02-03 20:32:46 <cgra> a check block edge count ranges from 1 to 2114, averaging at ~8. if doing correct math here, aux block edge count averages at ~182
9c70718f239f9219…25644265…2023-02-12 19:53:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 12:58:11 asciilifeform[awt|jonsykkel|deedbot]: later on, was expanded to serve other useful functions.
7beedbe57812a688…06856bbb…2022-12-28 17:57:16 <signpost> right, so the first alternative is that binary media is part of the chain, but it's part of netchains which are marked such that you can choose to ignore them
50abfaaa858cb758…c076a826…2022-12-29 17:51:10 <asciilifeform> hopefulyl it's still there sumwhere in phf's head, and will float
49b4754ceb2345fa…eb2345fa…2023-01-15 17:05:09 <phf> which is also where the idea that "i'm getting my ass kicked after this match" comes from :>
5b4e41659135e304…9135e304…2023-02-03 16:01:19 <signpost> ok, pretty satisfied this isn't a problem since we have to control the spray rate in any case.
c0b0583e9c70718f…239f9219…2023-02-12 19:52:19 <signpost> no need to be frustrated. thing's an awesome prototype.
9734a5309c70718f…9580a6fe…2023-02-12 19:52:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it
8cb1a8bb25b7939d…25b7939d…2023-02-13 11:39:32 <cgra> there's that waiting of peer whose clock is running fast, which i'm aware of, but asking specifically about ordering problems
daee0a231422e62c…0e911d9a…2022-11-18 16:56:53 <phf> also in totally unrelated, when copy/pasting into tk input widget, it doesn't strip newlines (which is good), but instead it sometimes replaces them with invisible spaces (which is bad). not sure how that works, but end up with spurious newlines like above..
d986af7b50abfaaa…858cb758…2022-12-29 17:55:12 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019909 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-getdata-prod.png
0824d6095b4e4165…5b4e4165…2023-02-03 16:02:23 signpost meanwhile seeing about chopping a simpler xorshift into the py version. will leave both in the code since phf has implemented the current one. not planning on making this configurable, but rather want to confirm that behavior on my end doens't change, or if so why.
0436f756f1ebab94…f1ebab94…2023-02-03 20:36:23 <cgra> if you have a 100GB my-dumbuntu.zip, you have ~800 million message block/aux block edges
867e304a9734a530…c0b0583e…2023-02-12 19:52:39 <signpost> damn, what's going on with my copy/paste today
0a1ea8b48cb1a8bb…8cb1a8bb…2023-02-13 12:02:33 <cgra> re peer with fast-running clock: footnote 21 states that you have to wait the time difference before sending your next-in-chain message. any obv downside to just add the difference to your new message's timestamp and send immediately instead?
b7a7a669daee0a23…1422e62c…2022-11-18 16:57:29 <asciilifeform> odd. wonder whether tk per se or crapple tho
a1de74ad7c4aeeaa…7c4aeeaa…2022-12-28 17:58:25 <signpost> the m-of-n mechanism is already there, so this might be plenty. just ignore all m-of-n chains longer than $foo, for $foo set in station knobs.
1e6cfb4ed986af7b…22ddd650…2022-12-29 17:56:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 12:46:27 phf[awt]: i send out getdata for whatever packet to all comers
17a609f60824d609…0f0e3fdb…2023-02-03 16:13:17 <cgra> signpost, if feel like it, there's also the 'un-floating' to consider simultaneously, plus the on-the-fly aux is related
be91fc4d0a1ea8b4…f3f6dbeb…2023-02-13 14:52:41 <asciilifeform> cgra: that part of the spec defo needs over9000 moar thought. (adding to your timestamp, for instance -- then it's same as if yer own clock runs fast, with the obv consequences!)
0b3a9bc6b7a7a669…b7a7a669…2022-11-18 16:58:53 asciilifeform shit thee not, actually went and bought an arm-crapple 'disposable' outta sheer curiosity re the arch & its performance. not uncrated yet, lol
dc6b072da1de74ad…7812a688…2022-12-28 17:58:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: as currently specified, the multiparts still end up extending speaker's selfchain tho
3ae784fd3862154c…3862154c…2023-01-15 17:13:48 <cgra> re q1, i never participated such larger lan events, but once a friend of a friend visited me, and there were a handful of my friends. played q1 with 3-4 computers. the friend-of-a-friend wiped floors with everyone else... with his black magic: mouse steering lol (i was a country kid)
4f4e1e8e17a609f6…0824d609…2023-02-03 16:13:46 <signpost> could you restate the benefit of on the fly aux generation?
53e30719e5e12866…d71f0f1e…2023-02-03 22:16:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022328 << to elaborate: all you need is, before sending e.g. MB of luby, sent to the proposed addr 'here's 256 random bytes, plox to send'em back, then i'll start'
1eb349fb85f23dfb…9c70718f…2023-02-12 19:54:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:57:51 phf[awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019348 << but on the other hand we don't want to discourage you writing experimental code, because unlike athena born as she was from the forehead of her father, distributed code has too much emergent behavior to attempt to reason it fr
da089877be91fc4d…be91fc4d…2023-02-13 14:59:03 <asciilifeform> is also likely to result in msgs being mysteriously discarded , when sumbody else's reply 'outruns' yours (client would need to notice this and reissue ?) -- gnarly
8306c308dc6b072d…a1de74ad…2022-12-28 17:59:16 <signpost> second option looks like was already discussed. there's a media reference message type born, and we operate caches with expiry rules (or infinite) as we choose
2138cb0f9c271211…50abfaaa…2022-12-29 18:05:21 <asciilifeform> phf: does your pestron have provision to retry a getdata if not answered in $interval ?
c60488823ae784fd…49b4754c…2023-01-15 17:14:45 <phf> i went there by myself, and those guys were my introduction to a whole bunch of other fins. and we were obviously speaking english to each other, which was equally bad on both sides. but i remember somebody from that group explaining phong shading to me, and somebody else was showi $bE@i<Θ'21
78331a914f4e1e8e…17a609f6…2023-02-03 16:17:42 <cgra> 1) smaller memory requirement: processing one aux block at a time vs all aux blocks at once, 2) no mandatory extra state, 'just files' and the encoder
f6b0612a53e30719…95e6c355…2023-02-03 22:17:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 14:54:04 phf[awt|deedbot]: jonsykkel, "handshake" implicitly involves a shared secret
5f8de8c81eb349fb…9734a530…2023-02-12 19:53:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:47:42 asciilifeform: starts to think that in the process of posting this, reduced it to a trivial snoar. apologies to those who bored to tears.
17cf53fdda089877…da089877…2023-02-13 14:59:33 <asciilifeform> ( worse yet, discarded but ~not by all stations~ , depending on who outruns whom )
ff424700826d7d0a…826d7d0a…2022-11-18 17:00:23 <asciilifeform> phf: have you tried programming the oddball neural-network coprocessor thing in there ?
61b0c2ea8306c308…8306c308…2022-12-28 17:59:50 <signpost> asciilifeform: ah right. I have the spec up alongside, refilling brain-cache
5fee131a2138cb0f…2138cb0f…2022-12-29 18:06:36 asciilifeform trying to implement his earlier 'broken heart' idea, where when one finds a hash pointing 'nowhere', a db entry is made to represent the fact, and then asynchronously getdata's are issued to try & replace the placeholder
99d8d866c6048882…c6048882…2023-01-15 17:14:45 <phf> ng me assembly code of their prod. it was like a genuine knowledge exchange $bE@i<Θ'21
6a79413b78331a91…4f4e1e8e…2023-02-03 16:18:17 <signpost> yeah but would have to reprocess these aux blocks every time referenced, or cache
57f81824f6b0612a…a3f12e8b…2023-02-03 22:17:23 <asciilifeform> the luby gets sent strictly to the addr which sent'em back, no AT renewal permitted between the 2 msgs
27d3be675f8de8c8…6548591b…2023-02-12 19:53:13 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023084 << currently thinking i should finish the db munge and wire it up first before letting a patch out, can leave the gui at whatever state to get it out earlier
f89fc1e117cf53fd…17cf53fd…2023-02-13 14:59:58 <asciilifeform> the 'monotonic timestamp' thing in 0xfa will prolly have to go.
c1b00148ff424700…daee0a23…2022-11-18 17:05:24 <phf> no, my only exposure to its existence: i was porting a certain proprietary programming language that's otherwise avx512 heavy to m1, and discovered that m1 doesn't really have anything interesting exposed. i.e. they have neon which is see/avx, but there's no support for newer sve
8e03383b61b0c2ea…dc6b072d…2022-12-28 18:00:23 <asciilifeform> ( skipping anyffin on the chain is nontrivial -- for 1 thing, broadcasts go to erryone; for anuther -- there are no forward links, only backward )
94915aa65fee131a…5fee131a…2022-12-29 18:07:01 <asciilifeform> ( rather than synchronously shooting one out immediately when see the hash, and then 'fughet about it' )
e433ef6957f81824…9f64bcbc…2023-02-03 22:25:14 <phf> should that be some kind of outside of luby mechanism?
bfac21e427d3be67…1eb349fb…2023-02-12 19:54:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 13:41:07 awt: I agree irc nursury and order buffer need to be removed. I believe cgra is working on that as part of his UI work. That being the case it doesn't make sense for me to duplicate that effort.
d09f0752c1b00148…c1b00148…2022-11-18 17:06:18 <phf> and their fancy extensions like the neural-network corpocessor is neither documented on the instruction level, nor is it exposed to user, except through a high level apple style library
e647351d8e03383b…61b0c2ea…2022-12-28 18:03:46 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019512 << thing is there's an oligarch's fat sack of cash (if not a government) operating "infinite" free storage for telegram eh?
b33534ea94915aa6…94915aa6…2022-12-29 18:07:29 <asciilifeform> phf's logit ftr is correct per current spec tho
4b510e806942427b…6a79413b…2023-02-03 16:19:17 <signpost> oughta be measured maybe, and see the hit to different payload sizes
89672c30e433ef69…e433ef69…2023-02-03 22:25:38 <phf> like you come online, start sending ignores, station recognizes change in at, and send you a challenge, that you need to respond to
d9af319cbfac21e4…b11bc595…2023-02-12 20:41:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023078 << fwiw it's already 100% gone from 0xfa. ( the rub is, atm nobody has a proto of 0xfa-istic pestron. asciilifeform is sloooowly baking one but atm not even eats packets just yet, lol )
75925377d09f0752…d09f0752…2022-11-18 17:10:15 <phf> and moving from avx512 to neon obv dropped performance of some ops from cool 1-2ns to boring 10-12ns. maybe if i spent more time studying the architecture, but unfortunately i started looking at m1 at the same time as i was doing avx512 work, and at this levels (between tight code elsewhere and vector ops) m1 just seemed b
a611eefde647351d…aad44714…2022-12-28 18:04:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 10:47:42 phf[awt]: on telegram instead of linking to youtube videos, i usually download video with youtubedown or similar, and then send video inline. this way there's no traffic sent to goog, videos stay uncancelable, and it's generally a better experience for everyone involved.
fb2fc5bb39e97d4c…72c58e9e…2023-01-15 17:16:06 <asciilifeform> phf: while afaik is 100% tru that the finns & others moved to usa to work for microshit etc., asciilifeform suspects that win95 and the gpu were the mortal wounds to 'demo scene' long prior to the migrations
a9df41d64b510e80…6942427b…2023-02-03 16:20:38 <cgra> also uncertain to my feeble brain if can 'invert' the probability math for it
0d63e77f89672c30…89672c30…2023-02-03 23:08:37 <phf> actually disregard, that seems like a bad idea, since it introduces all kinds of potential issues on the core messaging side
f4b71acad9af319c…bfac21e4…2023-02-12 20:43:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 13:33:41 phf[awt|deedbot]: for example the whole nursery logic needs to be ripped out, or otherwise somehow tuned, because it doesn't work. strongly connected nodes (that is for lack of better word the lordship) don't experience negative effects, because if you send your packets to the whole net, e
5048c55275925377…75925377…2022-11-18 17:10:15 <phf> oring. like it's vertically integrated, so you get performance boost on unoptimized "all over the place" code, but it's not interesting at all at the tigh inner loop level
fa2470d7a611eefd…e647351d…2022-12-28 18:05:58 <signpost> but I agree the experience is doing what you want here. somebody needs to be able to livestream a j6 on it.
9342f14bfb2fc5bb…fb2fc5bb…2023-01-15 17:17:11 <asciilifeform> i.e. at some pt in late '90s, the commonplace pc was no longer a machine that rewarded demoscene-style cleverness; but instead the kind of mindset which 'enjoys studying us tax code'
346ae255a9df41d6…4b510e80…2023-02-03 16:20:58 <signpost> another solution to "what if the payload's large, and we're talking about 30G of aux blocks" is to chunk streams into finite encoding scopes.
b0117b6d0d63e77f…0d63e77f…2023-02-03 23:09:49 <phf> one for one is such a nice property, once you violate it for reasons, suddenly need all kinds of extra mechanisms.
481dc226f4b71aca…d9af319c…2023-02-12 20:43:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023079 << asciilifeform for 1 in fact prepared a deliberately-rubbish gsm modem to test his thing with (when finally get beyond 'spreading worx!' stage, lol), for this reason
28d68c5ecee3a2fc…f89fc1e1…2023-02-13 15:13:32 <asciilifeform> cgra: 'outrun' i.e. 2 stations issue replies with same netchain (to same prev msg) and some net participants receive 1 prior to the other
c5a93c525048c552…5048c552…2022-11-18 17:12:59 <phf> essentially on the level that i was looking at m1 it was just another arm, and not even the fastest on the market. where's all the cool tech that apple hackers were leveraging was apple style proprietary. maybe now people have reversed portions of it?
8b8b2095fa2470d7…fa2470d7…2022-12-28 18:07:05 signpost fwiw favors the binwad cache with operator set TTL and to keep the pest chain tidy and human sized, but am by no means certain that's right.
a6f120b26c627174…9c271211…2022-12-29 18:13:51 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-29#1019993 << that part is totally not to spec. i don't ever send getdata immediately, just plop the packet into the backlog. and in (periodic) handler there's logic to spool getdata for everything that's missing.
7aae7eeb9342f14b…9342f14b…2023-01-15 17:19:23 <asciilifeform> the computer that bright teenagers could take interest in and form 'computer clubs' etc -- disappeared.
e6f6c297346ae255…346ae255…2023-02-03 16:21:29 <signpost> doing that might give what's needed to estimate how fast the other end can eat.
6203b2afb0117b6d…57f81824…2023-02-03 23:37:39 <asciilifeform> phf: the 'send me back these rng bytes' thing would be part of the trigger for the luby (so 'outside', yes). imho would be enuff to avoid 'cannon' w/out adding much gnarl
c63faaca481dc226…f4b71aca…2023-02-12 20:44:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 13:33:43 phf[jonsykkel]: or two is lost, you still get near-instant propagation. but since i'm running experimental code i inadvertently getting a newb experience: connected through a single node one necessarily is going to get all kinds of regressive behaviors.
c1568a3c28d68c5e…28d68c5e…2023-02-13 15:14:33 <asciilifeform> suppose both have same timestamp (or the 'winner', at particular receiver, has greater one than the 'loser'). nao the 'loser', from that station's pov, is malformed
960c65c9c5a93c52…c5a93c52…2022-11-18 17:15:34 <phf> but then you have posts like https://bytecellar.com/2022/11/16/a-secret-apple-silicon-extension-to-accommodate-an-intel-8080-artifact/
fcbdc2478b8b2095…0ceb008d…2022-12-28 18:16:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019564 << i get a feeling ascilifeform is not quite liking this approach without necessarily coming out in opposition of it explicitly
c51d9af4a6f120b2…59ed7732…2022-12-29 18:13:54 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 13:05:22 asciilifeform: phf: does your pestron have provision to retry a getdata if not answered in $interval ?
80eeefd8e6f6c297…e6f6c297…2023-02-03 16:22:04 <signpost> and establishes points where adjustments can be made to encoding parameters.
103b1cb66203b2af…f6b0612a…2023-02-03 23:39:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 14:12:05 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: i.e. joker can try to use his l1 as a 'ddos cannon'
2cbda325c63faaca…481dc226…2023-02-12 20:45:28 asciilifeform itching to get his pestron to the point where it'd make sense to post a draft & invite folx to fiddle with it, but currently mired in salt mine liquishit, sadly
ffdd3263c1568a3c…c1568a3c…2023-02-13 15:15:15 <asciilifeform> this is a catastrophic lul because potentially splits the net, in the sense where there now exists a msg that is valid on some stations but not others
5da88c83960c65c9…960c65c9…2022-11-18 17:16:36 <phf> so by the time apple moves to an entirely new architecture , we'll have a sufficiently complete picture of m1, to leverage its various hidden speed paths
c533637cfcbdc247…a611eefd…2022-12-28 18:17:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:54:56 signpost: perhaps binary media is a "subthread" chain, and my lightweight client with only 2gb of flash can ignore all non-text links.
34cee8ceb29f4450…7aae7eeb…2023-01-15 17:21:57 asciilifeform therefore strongly suspects that the 'obvious' cosmography -- 'oldfags moved to seattle and could no longer mentor local young folx' -- is backwards; they left at least in part ~because~ 'scene' evaporated on acct of 'not has with what'
3563551c80eeefd8…a9df41d6…2023-02-03 16:22:36 <cgra> would poor man's version of ^ be splitting bluray images into .part1,.part2 etc?
9df67cef103b1cb6…6203b2af…2023-02-03 23:40:15 <asciilifeform> concretely, instead of a single binary direct msg 'gimme lubystream of hash H' being answered immed. by stream, the station will answer 'sure, but 1st send me back these rng bytes, stream will go to ip they get send back from and it has to be the same 1 from which you had asked just nao'
8e6578b82cbda325…2cbda325…2023-02-12 20:48:22 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023115 << this caveat 'goes double' for p2pisms, which inescapably suck in over9000 odd and largely unstudied lulbehaviours of modern net, imho
66489767ffdd3263…ffdd3263…2023-02-13 15:16:49 <asciilifeform> (and yes, current thought is that malformed msgs get stored anyway, and displayed with special markings, as they may otherwise end up getdata'd infinitely, if they were discarded. but still ugh)
5c8f47725da88c83…5da88c83…2022-11-18 17:21:22 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-18#1016509 << apparently "entry" widget that i'm using for input is single line by design. on mac it renders single line, but preserves newline as hidden characters
057e2238c533637c…8e03383b…2022-12-28 18:18:02 <asciilifeform> phf: not liking because not obvious how possible to skip nominally-optional sections of chain when getdata'ing backwards (as links only point backwards)
b227740134cee8ce…34cee8ce…2023-01-15 17:22:45 asciilifeform 'participated' in demoscene strictly as a spectator, and formed distinct impression that win95ization was the 'time of death'
95c4be5a3563551c…80eeefd8…2023-02-03 16:23:10 <signpost> yeah, encoder would chunk the payload like that.
4a7d79989df67cef…9df67cef…2023-02-03 23:43:07 <asciilifeform> no need to recognize, as such, change in AT; simply insist that the addr to which luby piss is to go is able to receive, as well as send, under the requester's key
fc98c8fc8e6578b8…c63faaca…2023-02-12 20:49:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 14:47:14 phf[awt|deedbot]: well, i've implemented a handful of asciilifeform's brilliant ideas before, and know from experience that they should be treated more like flights of inspiration, rather than direct prescription. requires liberal applicatino of hammer and metal file (tm)(c)
29e64da166489767…66489767…2023-02-13 15:18:16 <asciilifeform> validity of a msg should not depend on the moar or less random order in which packets may be received.
85b30bce5c8f4772…ff3573fc…2022-11-18 17:22:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-18 11:58:40 asciilifeform[4]: odd. wonder whether tk per se or crapple tho
8f804212057e2238…057e2238…2022-12-28 18:18:24 <asciilifeform> that, and the fact that broadcasts hit erryone, consuming bw, whether the recipient 'wants' that msg or not
d8366aa15ee4cf6c…a6f120b2…2022-12-29 18:22:19 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019935 << i have two parallel tracks in code, very simple operator driven conditional stuff. so e.g. i call (prod) -> there's prod response -> it triggers getdata -> resulting packet goes into packet log. if that loop fails i don't care much .q>V:5B
75fc9c4b95c4be5a…95c4be5a…2023-02-03 16:24:03 <signpost> say receiver stops receiving blocks, and hasn't solved a chunk. can signal back "hey, I'm at 300/305 blocks solved over here on chunk 5"
131f0d0f4a7d7998…4a7d7998…2023-02-03 23:43:51 <asciilifeform> you can't forge, lol, ~receiving~ (or rather it aint called 'forging' anymoar if you can..)
24827c5efc98c8fc…8e6578b8…2023-02-12 20:49:49 asciilifeform ftr quite impressed that awt , jonsykkel , phf managed to bake sumthing through which (most of the time) we can actually talk reliably
d8b84bea29e64da1…29e64da1…2023-02-13 15:19:56 <asciilifeform> 1 possible pill would be to keep the monotonicity requirement, but 'loser' notices that he 'lost' and auto-reissues $msg
2a12602e85b30bce…ff424700…2022-11-18 17:22:09 <asciilifeform> phf: for 'straight wall clock time' for e.g. compiles, seems almost on par with the 'threadripper' in asciilifeform's torture room, interestingly
a340cd018f804212…8f804212…2022-12-28 18:19:11 <asciilifeform> it is very similar to trb block push problem, where a node is bombarded constantly by purposed 'latest' blocks, whether has a use for'em yet or not
38bdb135d8366aa1…d8366aa1…2022-12-29 18:22:19 <phf> because i'll just rerun it manually. the second track is automatic stuff. the packet log maintains holes, there's a code in periodic handler to try and fill those holes with getdata requests. it's basically all-in on the broken heart idea. .q>V:5B
46523442d8366aa1…1e6cfb4e…2022-12-29 18:23:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 13:15:26 asciilifeform[6]: wasn't obv from the photo
64058861b4d17e74…b4d17e74…2023-01-15 17:23:49 <phf> neither 95 nor opengl were the death knell, for example i was a youngfag by all the measures, joined already long into win95 era, didn't know and didn't care about c64 or amiga, and yet i would say it was peak demoscene
ba92962075fc9c4b…75fc9c4b…2023-02-03 16:24:22 <signpost> then sender can compare that to his previous estimate and adjust because loss was 5 blocks.
1876d032131f0d0f…131f0d0f…2023-02-03 23:49:18 <asciilifeform> is very similar to the handshake spec already has for rekey, the purpose of which is to prevent a buggy, sad-rng'd, or saboteur peer from forcing the peering key to an apriori-known value
3b40237b24827c5e…24827c5e…2023-02-12 20:53:46 asciilifeform slowly going over the pre-draft 0xfa spec, correcting lulgaffes and working in items discussed w/ phf et al
876e63792a12602e…2a12602e…2022-11-18 17:22:39 <asciilifeform> ( per report from other fella, not tried w/ own hands just yet )
f0a9a10346523442…38bdb135…2022-12-29 18:23:45 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-29#1019931 << yes
68e9501c64058861…b2277401…2023-01-15 17:25:05 asciilifeform had only c64 for 1st coupla yrs in usa, and enjoyed the demos; could not afford amiga before the latter went off the stage
5ed71c4aba929620…ba929620…2023-02-03 16:24:44 <signpost> receiver can also politely signal back that they received more blocks than they needed, and sender can adjust down.
9bfc62681876d032…1876d032…2023-02-03 23:51:55 <asciilifeform> ( there's naturally no way to prevent an idjit or traitor from divulging key to third party. but he can't force it to e.g. zero )
129c2c7b3b40237b…bfac21e4…2023-02-12 20:56:39 <phf> i'll also request an rfc period once draft is ready for publication, so that i have a chance to try out and test different protocol details, before we escalate them to voice of god status
6d1ed4c6d501296e…cee3a2fc…2023-02-13 15:20:10 <cgra> asciilifeform, you mean no two netchains may refer to same message? aren't they racing like that independent of fast clocks?
cf7672a4876e6379…5c8f4772…2022-11-18 17:23:56 <phf> asciilifeform, seymour cray could've told you that without even running it
55e08b5ffe46c3a9…8b8b2095…2022-12-28 18:19:32 signpost can also see how something which points the other way invites one's peers to hunt endlessly for the referenced item, potentially to no avail, with nothing hard to end the search.
d2696c4df0a9a103…46523442…2022-12-29 18:24:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 13:09:10 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: also phf is that a bolix screenshit ?
952b438168e9501c…68e9501c…2023-01-15 17:26:01 <asciilifeform> reputedly amiga ~was~ 'peak demoscene' -- on acct of 100% standardized and quite capable (in capable hands) graphics/audio chipset
cfd9218f5ed71c4a…5ed71c4a…2023-02-03 16:24:52 <signpost> or sender can periodically decay and see what happens.
676eef6f9bfc6268…9bfc6268…2023-02-03 23:57:02 <asciilifeform> ... this may be the 1 and only original idea, lol, in pest protocol. (tho for all asciilifeform knows, even it existed somewhere. but nfi where)
64035d3f129c2c7b…3b40237b…2023-02-12 20:58:35 <asciilifeform> phf: from asciilifeform's pov, 'voice of god status'(tm) is 'far as the moon', can only even be hinted at after thing's been tested under all kindsa conditions, warez net worx, etc
5a73b72f6d1ed4c6…d501296e…2023-02-13 15:21:56 <asciilifeform> cgra: per current 0xfa predraft, 'NetChain of a Message may not refer to one with a Timestamp greater than its own'
60bf5c06952b4381…64058861…2023-01-15 17:26:11 <phf> see you're looking at it from the "purist" perspective, but in eastern europe nobody actively disliked microsoft. for one it was phree and ms were clever enough to establish strong presence in the universities and not particularly go after pirates either
13930919cfd9218f…cfd9218f…2023-02-03 16:32:32 <signpost> were I to generate the aux blocks on the fly, next decision would be whether to lazily advance the prng which produces the message-aux edges, or precompute that.
10766baa676eef6f…676eef6f…2023-02-03 23:57:19 <asciilifeform> contrast with e.g. ssl's 'null cipher'(tm) magick bit.
d816835c64035d3f…64035d3f…2023-02-12 20:59:50 <asciilifeform> there are simply too many open q's which can only be answered with over9000 empirical sweat (e.g. how often send prods? wat-do when detected obv 'coarse errors of pilotage' like phf's earlier 'key on 2+ boxes' test? etc)
2b5e3e935a73b72f…5a73b72f…2023-02-13 15:23:02 asciilifeform may be mistaken re the implication, will have to think
f1f7d22e5a5b1b00…5a5b1b00…2022-11-18 17:24:17 asciilifeform unsurprised re undocumented coprocessors, it wouldn't be a crapple, lol, if were documented..
6468fdfb1b94f2c2…fe46c3a9…2022-12-28 18:20:19 <asciilifeform> pest is a 'push protocol', and if we want heavy things carried in it, oughta exempt'em from 'always push' 1 way or anuther
f6725fd960bf5c06…952b4381…2023-01-15 17:27:12 <asciilifeform> indeed afaik in east eu folx bit the microshit hook without any hesitation.
8a00871910766baa…b0117b6d…2023-02-04 01:11:27 <phf> right, i was over engineering things in my head. simply "guarding" luby with a handshake is good enough
3e148cebd816835c…d816835c…2023-02-12 21:00:53 <asciilifeform> not even 100% obv, imho , how satisfactory can be the answers when testing with ~6 active folx on net
42763b192b5e3e93…2b5e3e93…2023-02-13 15:23:41 <asciilifeform> come to think of it, pretty much errything above is fulla shit, so nm
93cebd49f1f7d22e…cf7672a4…2022-11-18 17:28:34 <phf> there are two things going on here, and this is my very naive interpretation: short and sweet datapaths, by using system in a package design (which is where you get high wall clock times), and proprietary extensions sprinkled essentially at random (instruction here, coprocessor there) to make apple code go brrr
7fdee386f6725fd9…f6725fd9…2023-01-15 17:27:53 <asciilifeform> even formed a sort of perverse 'demo scene' with clever virii instead of graphics as main focus of 'clever' ( recall 'dark avenger', polymorphic engines, etc )
e2b5b2db202bd747…cfd9218f…2023-02-03 16:38:54 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022148 << xorshift1024 fails LinearComp on "Big Crush tests" per https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.05313.pdf, i don't know what that means for us
45a5a2b98a008719…8a008719…2023-02-04 01:12:55 <phf> in totally unrelated can someone explain the china weather balloon story to me? i think ~that~ finally broke my clown world processing machinery
f0caa0393e148ceb…129c2c7b…2023-02-12 21:06:39 <phf> perhaps spec can have distinction for some of the functionality, like `conversative and suboptimal behavior for client implementors`. e.g. prescribed PROD is 1 packet every 10 minutes, but we know that better frequency or algorithm might be established in the future
269530de93cebd49…93cebd49…2022-11-18 17:31:25 <phf> meanwhile you have x86 market working with a very modular design, that necessarily creates overhead. so the whole "m1 totally slaughters legacy intel!!1" narrative is essentially a bunch of idiots going "bauaah duuuh standard bad, ipad render new york times fast good!!"
b100b2ce7fdee386…60bf5c06…2023-01-15 17:28:04 <phf> also early windows versions were still light and tight comparatively to modern monsters. e.g. i learned about softice form scene, and you'd have people running their windows machines under cracked softice, so that they have better idea of context switches or whatever.
31cf4dd8e2b5b2db…69f53193…2023-02-03 16:40:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 11:03:37 signpost: meanwhile seeing about chopping a simpler xorshift into the py version. will leave both in the code since phf has implemented the current one. not planning on making this configurable, but rather want to confirm that behavior on my end doens't change, or if so why.
380c7d4ce63a32a5…64e05263…2023-02-13 15:24:38 <cgra> asciilifeform best caught off guard -- right off bed
25542ecf269530de…269530de…2022-11-18 17:32:25 <phf> just another coffin in the nail of general purpose computing
f4d094550e7132f3…0e7132f3…2022-12-28 19:33:03 <phf> i guess there's a question of useful distinction between an inline nudes, and a 600mb `filthy moms volume 11`
2c06b78d31cf4dd8…e2b5b2db…2023-02-03 16:39:51 <phf> but then there's another prng quality analysis page, where it's not listed as failing linearcomp, https://prng.di.unimi.it
55b68c41380c7d4c…380c7d4c…2023-02-13 15:36:03 <cgra> asciilifeform, was thinking that the main consequence of your clock running fast is your messages propagate as getdata only, once too much time difference. if otoh, you wait to catch up the difference, might end up with a slower propagation. and faster propagation --> faster 'whose clock's off here?'
d432fc3525542ecf…f1f7d22e…2022-11-18 18:20:35 asciilifeform suspected ^ , will be testing with e.g. gnat, ffa, $commercialcircusware, rather than nyt tho
105c3a50f4d09455…f4d09455…2022-12-28 19:34:10 <phf> because an inline lolcat you'll probably set to some kind of `always download` mode, instead of `click to download` mode, and then everyone starts paying the tradeoff overheads
0265591f18b93811…18b93811…2023-01-15 17:29:20 asciilifeform even lived to see the 'apotheosis', 'hard ice'
fb9048312c06b78d…202bd747…2023-02-03 16:40:10 <signpost> not sure. fwiw I've got a test in the pywad that drops packets and confirms that the message can still be solved.
2f0f560755b68c41…55b68c41…2023-02-13 15:44:26 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022462 << btw, one consideration: you'd lose message reception times and break the ordering of old messages. old messages have two problems: occasional non-monotonic timestamp progression, and unreliable netchain path (contains zero netchain and netchain=selfchain messages). these to
c0112a91d432fc35…d432fc35…2022-11-18 18:21:20 <asciilifeform> phf: which emacs didja use on that box? seems as if the traditional crapple port runs under emulation
449ca7fa105c3a50…105c3a50…2022-12-28 19:38:17 <phf> ftr this issue is solved by reich-technology, telegram specifically is imho state of the art when it comes to personal messenger usability
6d0387950265591f…b100b2ce…2023-01-15 17:30:43 <phf> also everyone was into gaming, so you had a mandatory cracked windows, running cracked softice, where you would load your pirated game of the month. i remember booting return to krondor and immediately dropping into softice for some reason, probably to figure out where health stats -Dɩk܂? @ّ]"yl
08077cbcfb904831…2c06b78d…2023-02-03 16:41:05 <phf> yah, i don't understand oc at all yet, so i'm just leaving this here
1e6f98d42f0f5607…2f0f5607…2023-02-13 15:44:26 <cgra> gether leaves the reception time the best sorting criteria, especially for high-uptime stations
0882b3d02f0f5607…dec85f52…2023-02-13 15:45:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 13:56:31 asciilifeform[5]: cgra: fwiw asciilifeform has no plans to migrate anyffin other than keys from blatta db ( wainot let station sync from net the proper way ? )
b1c3c744c0112a91…c0112a91…2022-11-18 18:21:33 asciilifeform uncrated the thing & finally connected to mains
bac95f10449ca7fa…449ca7fa…2022-12-28 19:44:43 <phf> the utility of little-known feature on btcbase is significantly reduced because linkrot, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Atrinque+jpg&inline=true
1604c9646d038795…6d038795…2023-01-15 17:30:43 <phf> were, then spending like several hours trying to figure out what's going on. then going to bed and realizing that i haven't the slightest idea how the game even looks. -Dɩk܂? @ّ]"yl
4fb54c5308077cbc…08077cbc…2023-02-03 16:43:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022068 << i figured out why it generates garbage on the last multiply. (unsigned-byte 64) is not immediate on a 64-bit lisp, on account of there not being enough space to put a tag. so to not make it generate garbage it needs to be inlined
87e59bea1e6f98d4…1e6f98d4…2023-02-13 16:04:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023172 << netchain/selfchain is an explicit claim by the sender about what he's implicitly replying to. the problem with `who cares about small drift` argument, is that it is primarily semantically an issue in a near-realtime communication, w ۧ,{BWxUۼR`Ty @
414a93cdb1c3c744…25542ecf…2022-11-18 18:22:16 <phf> asciilifeform, i use macports emacs-app @28.2_0+nativecomp+rsvg
6d7382f9bac95f10…085d83b9…2022-12-28 19:56:29 <awt> The problem was annoying enough for me personally to put some effort into an archiving indexer.
0d422ffc1604c964…0265591f…2023-01-15 17:31:28 asciilifeform started in x86 reverseism in precisely the way described above, ended up living off subj for many yrs
6c4b3b604fb54c53…31cf4dd8…2023-02-03 16:44:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 17:19:57 phf[deedbot|awt]: e.g. xorsfhit1024 becomes http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UZma, and it still generates garbage on that last multiply (it bignums and then truncates, i can't figure out how to make it use a int64bit version of *)
07488ceb87e59bea…87e59bea…2023-02-13 16:04:29 <phf> here small drift will be counter acted by packet delay, but the semantics rely heavily on correct ordering. in other words in cases of `and turns out she was a fish!` `lol!`, that lol really should go after the `joke` ۧ,{BWxUۼR`Ty @
de28a0cd87e59bea…0882b3d0…2023-02-13 16:05:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 06:36:22 cgra[jonsykkel]: if, as specced in current 0xfa draft (4.2.1.3, 4.2.1.2), timestamps in a chain were never decreasing, would it guarantee a reasonable order of messages if ordered primarily by timestamp and secodarily by chain depende
40b533140d422ffc…1604c964…2023-01-15 17:33:02 <phf> i'd maybe agree that it was synergistic, machines become too complicated (in a boring way) for a single wizard to hack, but you'd be surprised how insane the poach was.
5b223051de28a0cd…1e6f98d4…2023-02-13 16:11:33 <cgra> phf, if 'monotonic timestamp', 'lol' sender must've seen the joke already, so will have a >= timestamp. if equal timestamps, netchain decides order
e39dac803b3d9c11…414a93cd…2022-11-18 18:24:13 <phf> i'm not saying the system is bad, i have it ~~ permanently connected to apple pro xdr, and it's a kind of ghetto desktop
5fb919c42c971a30…2c971a30…2022-12-28 19:57:45 <signpost> awt: how much of the log did you end up getting archived?
5dd9692640b53314…0d422ffc…2023-01-15 17:34:16 <asciilifeform> defo 'slow death' rather than 'in a day'
f0c754fa4d9d8afb…4d9d8afb…2023-02-03 16:47:18 <phf> niether here nor there problem. to make things be easily fast on a lisp ought to keep bit size under most-positive-fixnum, which is short two bits under sbcl from whatever system word size
4dbf50315b223051…07488ceb…2023-02-13 16:14:40 <phf> ah, i got the idea, but i don't think it's in spec. the way i read it monotonic timestamp is per-machine, but there's no requirement that timestamp must be >= lastmessage, or am i missing it?
7bacd1435fb919c4…5fb919c4…2022-12-28 19:57:55 <signpost> would be great to at some point reassemble what can be.
84a0150d5dd96926…40b53314…2023-01-15 17:35:14 <phf> will wright released spore in 2008, but i guess it was in development since forever, and his big pitch was that he got "demoscene, you probably never heard of it, programmers" and i remember it being incredibly cringe, because by then nvidia/ati/intel sales reps were standing at th yt qaMy1f0"
ecb046cdf0c754fa…3563551c…2023-02-03 16:47:31 <cgra> signpost, pre-gen/on-the-fly prolly otherwise a minor point, but affects aux randomization algo, so must choose which one to use
522e16454dbf5031…5b223051…2023-02-13 16:16:57 <cgra> phf, in 0xfa predraft, i'm looking at sections 4.2.1.2 and 4.2.1.3
ce9f13f01e47b156…1e47b156…2022-11-18 18:25:39 <asciilifeform> ( the 1 with the infamous $1k aluminum leg ? )
58b268b684a0150d…84a0150d…2023-01-15 17:35:14 <phf> e doors of demoparties and grabbing people and putting them in the back of unmarked vans to be shipped directly to the u.s. west coast yt qaMy1f0"
e2409bd684a0150d…5dd96926…2023-01-15 17:35:23 <asciilifeform> the clever virii thing was possibly the last gasp, afaik peak was in 2010s ( asciilifeform showed up just in time to watch the 'interesting' evaporate away )
3cfc2709ecb046cd…f0c754fa…2023-02-03 16:48:42 <phf> cgra, i don't understand, why would on-the-fly require a different aux randomization algo?
300d6f0b522e1645…4dbf5031…2023-02-13 16:18:54 <phf> ah, interesting, that seems like a new requirement, or maybe i just punted on it
5bd81689ce9f13f0…e39dac80…2022-11-18 18:26:38 <phf> i dunno how much the leg costs, but the whole thing was 7k out of the box, with the "nano coating" and everything. i have no regrets
0e75d958650cdfd8…650cdfd8…2022-12-28 19:58:17 <signpost> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-31#1442638 << what a delight. I still have that.
a2ac40e758b268b6…b1edc8ef…2023-01-15 17:38:47 <asciilifeform> salt mines using 'hey this d00d published clever xyz in asm n yrs ago' as hiring filter continues, and prolly will continue ( complete with the part where you take the contract and find regular salt mine, and noshit the wurk has 0 to do with whatever made'em 'hey yer cool, work for us' )
9a22cb7d3cfc2709…ecb046cd…2023-02-03 16:49:43 <cgra> phf, well, current is from a message block at a time, to aux blocks, but on-the-fly is 'this one here aux, which message blocks?'
6745d485300d6f0b…522e1645…2023-02-13 16:19:17 <cgra> fun fact, looking at this today, tried to search "Timestamp greater than" from every spec version and didn't find. turned out firefox pdf search tripped on link + italic, or some detail in it, and didn't match
fa41eb8d5bd81689…ce9f13f0…2022-11-18 18:26:57 asciilifeform not tried subj, and not even because miser, but b/c dunwork with standard displayport cards, loox to be crapple-only periph
7e689aca0e75d958…0e75d958…2022-12-28 19:58:45 <signpost> and I married and knocked her up. life is better lived with logs.
638f9b45a2ac40e7…a2ac40e7…2023-01-15 17:39:25 asciilifeform on receiving end of this 'fortune' n times, like errybody else, and nuffin to write home about
4acf788b6745d485…de28a0cd…2023-02-13 16:20:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 10:54:31 jonsykkel: pg.22 "Note that the NetChain of a Message may not refer to one with a Timestamp greater than its own" << this efectively requires cloks to be synced within seconds, doesnt it. how to know if someone else is fast or you is slow
bdfbabc67e689aca…6d7382f9…2022-12-28 20:00:01 <awt> signpost: I recall that eventually I was able to index the entire log up to sometime in 2020. Obvs by that point there were many broken links.
9f9b4b67638f9b45…58b268b6…2023-01-15 17:39:34 <phf> the whole "left behind" aspect of the scene, and i mean that in general, hackerspaces, lan parties, various get togethers, should not be understimated. now there's obviously a lot of people who got older, need to take care of family, etc.
f4f38a933c4b5312…3cfc2709…2023-02-03 16:52:53 <phf> that didn't clarify, but i'll keep the point in mind while reading the code again
7d7741cafab56e07…5bd81689…2022-11-18 18:27:52 <phf> yes, ther are allegedly hacks™, kind of how you can run openbsd on an m1 also, but why not relax with a cool refreshing santori instead?
0169e42cbdfbabc6…bdfbabc6…2022-12-28 20:01:42 <awt> Caveat - archives were text only and stored in a pg table.
8fe60aae9f9b4b67…638f9b45…2023-01-15 17:40:32 <asciilifeform> folx 'aging out' and '1 foot in grave' aint surprising, happens errywhere; the part that 'needs explaining' imho is the lack of 'next generation'
51e993cff4f38a93…3c4b5312…2023-02-03 16:58:28 <cgra> i'll try rephrasing sometime soon, atm bit busy off-desk
2bfbd8c0ecbe9a77…300d6f0b…2023-02-13 16:20:59 <phf> well, considering that i've re-read entire knuth to implement the graph solution, and this requirement basically eleminates sort order as a problem...
56c30ba87d7741ca…fab56e07…2022-11-18 18:28:12 asciilifeform uses crapples strictly as portable 'toilets', so not has much in the way of crapple-specific periphs around
6657c88b0169e42c…449ca7fa…2022-12-28 20:02:21 <phf> so what was in archives? contents of page links?
00c4b1058fe60aae…9f9b4b67…2023-01-15 17:40:44 <phf> i usually take a day or two on whatever trip to leave the women and friends behind to go explore local scene, and it's pretty universal experience. hackerspaces established in the good old days, but now run by zoomers, with more interest in intersectional integration or whatever, than they are in hacking.
9eb1a23451e993cf…5fd45f39…2023-02-03 17:05:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022167 << afaik non-ideal prng, in context of lubyism, simply gives less-than-ideal 'mileage' (excluding the case of a catastrophically-broken prng, e.g. with laughably short period; there, could fail entirely to send $block)
49d5519c56c30ba8…56c30ba8…2022-11-18 18:28:45 <asciilifeform> somewhere i've that oddball touch sensor mouse, tho weak battery and can't be arsed to saw it apart to replace
454ee9419eb1a234…6c4b3b60…2023-02-03 17:07:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 11:40:23 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022148 << xorshift1024 fails LinearComp on "Big Crush tests" per https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.05313.pdf, i don't know what that means for us
ffa42d90efd52ee8…2bfbd8c0…2023-02-13 16:34:54 <phf> but on other hand i think ascii is smoking crack :> per jonsykkel a packet from a station with (possibly temporarily) broken clock results in entire network doing ???
52735cc149d5519c…7d7741ca…2022-11-18 18:29:10 <phf> i have exactly three crapple devices at home in general (not counting wife's iphone): xdr monitor, m1 macbook pro and a powerpc g4 laptop
3506bd0e6cd4b78e…1a72566c…2022-12-28 21:01:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019592 << by 'reich tech' simply meant 'errything on central server' (trivially over9000x easier to write an aol messenger than p2p, noshit) or something moar specific ?
7a516485ac782e7c…ac782e7c…2023-01-15 17:42:11 <asciilifeform> there aint aboutta be a 'next linus', for simple reason that is ~impossible to write meaningfully interesting ab-initio os for commonplace irons, for instance.
524d3671454ee941…fb904831…2023-02-03 17:07:25 <signpost> yeah, the channel would seem lossier the worse the rng.
e87424f0ffa42d90…efd52ee8…2023-02-13 17:13:30 <cgra> phf, was this a pest comment, got log link handy?
4310128b52735cc1…49d5519c…2022-11-18 18:29:49 <asciilifeform> good old g4. imho the 12in g4 -- best crapple to date
498740af3506bd0e…c533637c…2022-12-28 21:02:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 14:51:01 phf[4]: ftr this issue is solved by reich-technology, telegram specifically is imho state of the art when it comes to personal messenger usability
64bf40f37a516485…7a516485…2023-01-15 17:42:41 <asciilifeform> ('is that a real program, or is that sumthing sumbody wrote?'(tm)(r) effect)
431dc8e1e87424f0…e63a32a5…2023-02-13 17:17:25 <asciilifeform> phf: confirmed re crack, it doesn't of course permanently push ~erryone's~ time fwd
97684b914310128b…4310128b…2022-11-18 18:30:05 <asciilifeform> could even boot into the ancient '90s os
0fa8baab498740af…3506bd0e…2022-12-28 21:03:02 asciilifeform not used telegram, but used e.g. slack, which in this sense is 'an aol messenger'. or does telegram include elements of p2pism, as e.g. skype once did ?
ff2b13e964bf40f3…00c4b105…2023-01-15 17:43:00 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020458 << yeah, that's basically the question. and how this thread started. finland used to be the hacker powerhouse, and it's funny because i personally have to be reminded of it, that's not where my thinking would go now. but if you were to F! ~.5.?=˴ϔ
0d0da5c1de12baac…524d3671…2023-02-03 17:07:49 <signpost> this property made for hilarious pitfalls throughout the implementation, where brain-dead bugs would still eventually work
ce48e9d0431dc8e1…431dc8e1…2023-02-13 17:17:43 <asciilifeform> will only 'push' until there's a natural pause
7ccc2a9897684b91…52735cc1…2022-11-18 18:30:14 <phf> but the first two i use as work machine, and a toilet box, because two are the same in my line of work. i split them between accounts, and use mac os fast switch. because my whole work stack is optimized for mac anyway, there's really no reason to use anything else
3b1504dd0fa8baab…6657c88b…2022-12-28 21:05:29 <phf> asciilifeform slays windmills he himself erects, news at 11! the comment was re specifically this issue http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019591
873937c0ff2b13e9…ff2b13e9…2023-01-15 17:43:00 <phf> ask me about finland in the 90s, i'd do that "The Hackers" style bow "oh they are all 31337 over there" F! ~.5.?=˴ϔ
4f9b62c9ff2b13e9…bf577888…2023-01-15 17:44:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 12:41:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: folx 'aging out' and '1 foot in grave' aint surprising, happens errywhere; the part that 'needs explaining' imho is the lack of 'next generation'
1f56e0b70d0da5c1…de12baac…2023-02-03 17:09:35 <asciilifeform> biased prng will simply send subset of chunks moar often than they oughta be sent, at the expense of some other subset
6bd87d5ece48e9d0…ce48e9d0…2023-02-13 17:19:04 <asciilifeform> still potentially headache, if e.g. asciilifeform's clock is 14min 59s 'fast' vs erryone else's, nao any immed. replies have a strong chance of expiring before being received
243c67bf7ccc2a98…97684b91…2022-11-18 18:30:39 asciilifeform had 1 from salvage, rubber-malleted the mangled shell into sumthing like straight (after removing contents lol)
773548623b1504dd…498740af…2022-12-28 21:06:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 14:35:20 phf[awt]: because an inline lolcat you'll probably set to some kind of `always download` mode, instead of `click to download` mode, and then everyone starts paying the tradeoff overheads
8ea7cd614f9b62c9…64bf40f3…2023-01-15 17:45:22 asciilifeform remembers all kindsa finn 1337, from the 'cave flying' games, the penet remailer, demos, linus et al, to almost modern times
c4839f361f56e0b7…f4f38a93…2023-02-03 17:14:13 <phf> yeah, but that's not what linear complexity is, hence the question of how lincomp affects us
579b2b566bd87d5e…6bd87d5e…2023-02-13 17:20:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023208 << not new, iirc that was in the 1st copy of 0xfa 'pre-draft' asciilifeform posted
a55309d7243c67bf…243c67bf…2022-11-18 18:31:06 <asciilifeform> right, iirc phf was in the crappleware biz at some pt
f5cce9c577354862…3b1504dd…2022-12-28 21:08:17 <phf> that is to say that you don't have one kind of downloadable material. inline lolcat is different from inline funny picture is different from inline paste is different from 4GB criterion collection copy of Aguirre, the wrath of god.
0d95afef8ea7cd61…873937c0…2023-01-15 18:19:09 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020425 << i'm pretty sure by then all the techniques were already known, wall walking, circle jumping, strafe running. obv rocket and grenade jumps and straffe jumping. so you could gain significant advantage just from moving properly
31f520c8c4839f36…c4839f36…2023-02-03 17:17:11 <phf> as in, we can just go and choose an algo that doesn't fail linearcomp, but there might be no reason to.
84971de5579b2b56…4acf788b…2023-02-13 17:21:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 11:20:13 phf[awt|deedbot]: ah, interesting, that seems like a new requirement, or maybe i just punted on it
bdb77e77a55309d7…a55309d7…2022-11-18 18:31:49 asciilifeform lulzily, for many yrs used crapples ~exclusively to run various infected winblowzen in vmware
e8f06dfaf5cce9c5…f5cce9c5…2022-12-28 21:10:10 <phf> if i for example paste a png of a graph of pest network behavior and then there's a lively conversation about the contents of the graph, that graph is inherently part of log.
c374e5c20d95afef…4f9b62c9…2023-01-15 18:20:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 12:15:00 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: re q1, i never participated such larger lan events, but once a friend of a friend visited me, and there were a handful of my friends. played q1 with 3-4 computers. the friend-of-a-friend wiped floors with everyone else... with his black magic: mouse steering lol (i wa
870c601331f520c8…1f56e0b7…2023-02-03 17:18:16 <asciilifeform> phf: as asciilifeform understands, from pov of lubyism (rather than cryptographic context) all statistical failures of prng 'are same thing'
9ea4015984971de5…579b2b56…2023-02-13 17:20:53 <asciilifeform> (which was why asciilifeform was puzzled re phf's dig into graph walkers)
30955b69bdb77e77…7ccc2a98…2022-11-18 18:33:09 <phf> one advantage of crappleware, is that they periodically release something extremely pimped out, that you don't need to think about much to use
b94f5f27e8f06dfa…0fa8baab…2022-12-28 21:11:55 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform meant was , presumably telegram aint trying to store all material in a singly-linked list of chunks are flood-routed when emitted 1 at a time, and then sit on erry user's hdd 4evah
d93f3a409ea40159…9ea40159…2023-02-13 17:21:17 <asciilifeform> may yet turn out to need the graph walker tho, not clear atm to asciilifeform that we don;t in fact
1580030e30955b69…30955b69…2022-11-18 18:34:07 <phf> i think that's why they fully cornered the webshit developer & related markets
2640bd51b94f5f27…b94f5f27…2022-12-28 21:12:56 <asciilifeform> and yes imho phf is right, 'that graph oughta be part of the log'. the q is whether there's a moar efficient way to do this than actually storing it in the chain as if were text
3269c6efb9e6027a…b9e6027a…2023-01-15 21:05:42 <cgra> awt: are you itching to get fiddling with an ircless blatta mutation, or does another 1-4wk make any difference?
19462c3bffaf9e4c…870c6013…2023-02-03 17:18:48 <asciilifeform> phf: possibly; but then plox to elaborate
3d43e345d93f3a40…d93f3a40…2023-02-13 17:30:53 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023215 << your own link, http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023209
70cf6c211580030e…1580030e…2022-11-18 18:35:52 <phf> and that their strategy of pimped vertical integration and narrow scope products works. like take eizo, which eizo should one buy so it doesn't suck? because their main line, whatever it is, coloredge, is now trash.
d6a458682640bd51…2640bd51…2022-12-28 21:14:33 <asciilifeform> ( as in e.g. signpost's idea, where in-chain it's a lolcat-hash, and there's some parallel mechanism for retrieving it )
f54d47e53269c6ef…a332146e…2023-01-15 22:14:20 <awt> cgra: No rush. I'm still rather bogged down with consulting work.
f1f2e93119462c3b…ffaf9e4c…2023-02-03 17:20:15 <phf> e.g. https://www.turingfinance.com/hacking-the-random-walk-hypothesis/#linear-complexity-test suggests that linear complexity test is a test by insinuation. it attempts to automatically construct a lsfr out of bit stream
42a3e0313d43e345…84971de5…2023-02-13 17:32:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 12:14:46 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: phf, was this a pest comment, got log link handy?
d3f83de570cf6c21…70cf6c21…2022-11-18 18:37:38 <phf> they have like 5 product lines with 10 products in each, and some of those /allegedly/ are still eizo quality, and some are just generic junk. "this dell monitor is pretty good" level of junk.
bff79b4cd6a45868…d6a45868…2022-12-28 21:16:56 <asciilifeform> or, to rephrase: a) signpost oughta be able to throw a linux iso on pestnet b) this should not make the log db suddenly += 3GB, and new stations having to suck in that 3GB before they can even see the immed.preceding text msgs
29af0d44f54d47e5…3269c6ef…2023-01-16 12:52:57 <cgra> asciilifeform, why isn't version and command included in the pest message hash? why would: less room for funnybiz
b2e46b7442a3e031…42a3e031…2023-02-13 17:32:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 11:20:33 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: fun fact, looking at this today, tried to search "Timestamp greater than" from every spec version and didn't find. turned out firefox pdf search tripped on link + italic, or some detail in it, and didn't match
f2c91899d3f83de5…bdb77e77…2022-11-18 18:40:10 <asciilifeform> phf: ev3285. (but ftr asciilifeform aint an artist, and not used the colorimeter calibration pheature, has nfi how suitable for such work)
34b59d2029af0d44…29af0d44…2023-01-16 12:57:46 <cgra> there's at least one instance: somebody could send a direct "hello" first to victim, then broadcast same text with same timestamp. now victim's broadcast reception is stuck at uniqueness constraint fault. i suppose you, alternatively, could handle the case by separating direct and broadcast logs
3a53ee9f5bf23451…5bf23451…2023-02-03 17:21:47 <phf> so it approximates one from a bit stream, and then compares it's length against "what would be expected from a true uniform random sequence"
77ff56a2b2e46b74…3d43e345…2023-02-13 17:32:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023221 << graph walker idea predates the current spec, and i just thought it was "cool" :) which is also how e.g. btcbase has a very very fast grep over logs
6c5ce1de8c7233e2…bff79b4c…2022-12-28 21:18:01 <asciilifeform> fwiw 'include a pointer to preceding, so skippable' doesn't actually solve; suppose all yer peers skipped it. how do you propagate a request for it to l2+ (incl. originator) who have it?
984a0ac834b59d20…34b59d20…2023-01-16 12:59:08 <cgra> "hello" as in first ever message, and could even in theory happen accidentally if done rapidly on same second
dc7d376f3a53ee9f…19462c3b…2023-02-03 17:22:08 <asciilifeform> so, for instance, does 'prng fails linear complexity test' imply that one can construct a luby payload that will never properly send (i.e. some blox systematically avoided) ? or 1 that takes 10x the expected # of chunks to send..?
bbab5a3377ff56a2…b2e46b74…2023-02-13 17:34:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 12:22:08 asciilifeform[4]: (which was why asciilifeform was puzzled re phf's dig into graph walkers)
d7f15e7a3bdcd6a3…3bdcd6a3…2022-11-18 18:43:01 asciilifeform after trying various supposed 'flicker-free' lcds, and sending back / selling all of'em, using subj for going on 2y nao, not much to complain about
db82459e6c5ce1de…8c7233e2…2022-12-28 21:18:03 <phf> because 3gb iso is self-evidently an attachment, but a graph that's driving a conversation is self-evidently part of log. you're either optimizing for size of log, or for arbitrary holes
539d29bc984a0ac8…8ea7cd61…2023-01-16 13:04:36 <asciilifeform> cgra: the random padding in message text makes this scenario ~impossible
b7a244c8bbab5a33…77ff56a2…2023-02-13 17:35:45 <phf> also imho a graph walker solution is appropriate for a lisp implementation, on account of a kind of retro-grandeur that's inherent to all the approaches that those guys took. bit twiddling fighting for each byte c virgin vs my chat program requires a 3 hour GC every night genera giga-chad
99783050db82459e…6c5ce1de…2022-12-28 21:18:59 asciilifeform with phf in re 'should be able to put graph in the log', hence wai defined 18MB multipartism. but suspects that it will make for serious pain if actually used this way regularly
2eb96583539d29bc…539d29bc…2023-01-16 13:05:01 <asciilifeform> (in message text, in unused bytes of speaker field, and, obviously, the chain hashes)
0be0c05c352ac49d…352ac49d…2023-02-03 17:24:03 <phf> it's explicitly a xorshift detector (xorshift IS an lsfr), and if it detects that the sequence could've been produced with a short xorshift it says "that's awfully short, it's probably not random"
1bc42cefb7a244c8…b7a244c8…2023-02-13 17:56:56 <phf> i already learned something as a result, in khan if you replace the set of all nodes S with a priority queue, you get the secondary constraint for when graph doesn't enforce one "for free"
f22c30b199783050…db82459e…2022-12-28 21:20:08 <phf> i guess there's two types of attachments in general, those that are inline with conversations, and those that are download links into some secondary mechanism
86bdfd942eb96583…2eb96583…2023-01-16 13:06:05 <asciilifeform> ... a valid direct msg can't have same chain hashes as any broadcast msg, thinkabout it
f8046d430be0c05c…0d0da5c1…2023-02-03 17:24:38 <signpost> there's something head-cracking in there, at least for a dummy like me.
be99b1da1bc42cef…1bc42cef…2023-02-13 17:57:24 <phf> which in our case is netchain/selfchain for graph, and timestamp for priority queue
44f8a4097ef6fb89…7ef6fb89…2022-11-18 18:44:44 <asciilifeform> the 'generic' & 'gaming' eizos actually quite distinguishable, they have 1 digit less in price, lol
9984bf92f22c30b1…f22c30b1…2022-12-28 21:20:48 <phf> we have a self-evident solution for the later, a special message type that gives you a hash, that you can use to query into a download mechanism. give me all parts of `a3f3dd356…` file
f3dae8fd86bdfd94…86bdfd94…2023-01-16 13:06:45 <asciilifeform> hash covers from timestamp to the end of the packet.
09c5d59bf8046d43…f8046d43…2023-02-03 17:24:52 <signpost> first, why xorshift is so good at this, for as few steps as it contains.
8dda7895be99b1da…be99b1da…2023-02-13 18:01:03 <phf> i can theoretically ignore the timestamp entirely, and use arrival order for secondary constraint
ab8f12a844f8a409…44f8a409…2022-11-18 18:45:19 <asciilifeform> (not that the extra digit guarantees 'old eizo' quality. per asciilifeform the tube light ones were actually easier on the eyes)
eb49f8789984bf92…99783050…2022-12-28 21:20:51 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's notion is that if the secondary mechanism is well-conceived, then anyffin bigger than a hand-typed chat msg oughta ride on it
cc86055ef3dae8fd…f3dae8fd…2023-01-16 13:09:41 <asciilifeform> (fwiw current pestrons will accept a msg with arbitrary chain hashes, however)
4d3dfa3c09c5d59b…09c5d59b…2023-02-03 17:25:13 <signpost> second, that apparently a lot of prng behavior is reducible into something like xorshift
1202ddec8dda7895…a40878d0…2023-02-13 18:04:06 <awt> cgra: address cast seems to have worked using the key you gave me
cab9f1ebcc86055e…984a0ac8…2023-01-16 13:10:59 <cgra> the first direct has zero chain hashes, like the first broadcast
994f24060c7cdf98…2531364a…2022-11-18 18:45:35 <phf> same in class monitor with this apple one is CG319X, maybe worth a try out
ccf88361d462341f…d462341f…2022-12-28 21:28:25 <asciilifeform> the tricky bit , as asciilifeform understands it, re 'request hash, maybe someone on net has the bin that it was hash(bin) of' is that it inescapably introduces an element of 'onionism' --
4789007f0c6f8597…0be0c05c…2023-02-03 17:38:19 <phf> asciilifeform, it's a kind of walking in circles :) my understanding so far is that lct is a "short" lsfr detector, but the main appeal of xorshift family is that it's a short lsfr. i don't understand (nor have i found laymen documentation) on what other implications this have
a6905fc7e3bbb867…d93f3a40…2023-02-13 18:11:59 <asciilifeform> graph walker will surely come in handy sumwhere.
d23f1eb3994f2406…0c7cdf98…2022-11-18 18:46:08 <asciilifeform> not tried that 1. loox like moarpixels, can't hurt
0f3e3060ccf88361…ccf88361…2022-12-28 21:28:34 <asciilifeform> ... you can't directly talk to an l2+ peer
82943d3f7d24e5aa…7d24e5aa…2023-01-16 13:12:32 <cgra> ahh, broadcast doesn't have zero net chain, if not fiddled. only first msg of the net...
eb3f76e2a6905fc7…a6905fc7…2023-02-13 18:12:20 <asciilifeform> (maybe replace the rubbish one in vtron... )
aaec47d2d23f1eb3…d23f1eb3…2022-11-18 18:46:42 <asciilifeform> ( the spectrometric thing is wasted on asciilifeform )
2903e78b82943d3f…cc86055e…2023-01-16 13:13:16 <asciilifeform> what would that do, if victim doesnt pad with zeroes
b2d0d2fcf82c5e59…f82c5e59…2023-02-03 17:45:08 <phf> ”These scrambled Xorshift generators output 64-bit integers. Ideally, a 64-bit PRNG should be tested with a 64-bit test suite; using a test suite designed for 32-bit PRNGs (or actually 31-bit PRNGs in the case of Big Crush) necessarily involves compomises. Vigna’s approach was Pu"&@; IsIρ;9Xb
6f6cc23aeb3f76e2…eb3f76e2…2023-02-13 18:14:48 <asciilifeform> re timestamps -- asciilifeform still thinking about this possible algo
c7335c7baaec47d2…aaec47d2…2022-11-18 18:47:46 <asciilifeform> lulzily, cg advertised as having 'noiseless, fanless operation'. are fans common on lcd nao?!~!
8ed5a2458fbb2fb1…9984bf92…2022-12-28 21:30:09 <phf> right, this notion of yours is the core of the dispute. we're on the same page that gb isos and movies and such should be attachments, but i believe there needs to be a mechanism to inline a resource at the discretion of the operator
73bc09198fbb2fb1…8fbb2fb1…2022-12-28 21:30:11 <asciilifeform> the request would have to be broadcast, and the response (a possibly heavy bin) would have to travel somehow other than via flood (or there's no point in the hack, may as well sit it down in the chain for all the bw it'd save)
e6b5a04d2903e78b…82943d3f…2023-01-16 13:15:42 <cgra> asciilifeform is it possible that broadcast zero net-chain will be(come) spec-acceptable in the future? besides for a couple of first-of-net messages
9f9a8488b2d0d2fc…b2d0d2fc…2023-02-03 17:45:08 <phf> to interleave the least-significant 32 bits and most-significant 32 bits of each 64-bit output, thus each 64-bit output becomes two 32-bit outputs. This interleaving strategy may detect flaws in some 64-bit PRNGs, but it may also hide statistical weaknesses. Such an approach is use Pu"&@; IsIρ;9Xb
6253a9026f6cc23a…bbab5a33…2023-02-13 18:16:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 15:59:26 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: for thread-completeness, anuther solution could be to actually track clock diff. b/w you and $peer, and treat binary msgs as expiring in e.g. 1min from timestamp (adjusted for the diff) rather than 15.
f3f26b5473bc0919…73bc0919…2022-12-28 21:31:18 <asciilifeform> ( as #1 axiom of pestronics is that 'station only directly talks to operator-defined peers' )
64f33ce8e6b5a04d…2903e78b…2023-01-16 13:17:08 <asciilifeform> current spec is silent re subj. but imho oughta reject a broadcast msg with zero netchain unless yer db is empty. a new speaker on net oughta receive at least 1 msg before speaking. (and prod makes it simple to getdata for 1 even if no one has spoken in a while)
6ae264e39f9a8488…9f9a8488…2023-02-03 17:45:08 <phf> ful but is insufficient. A more comprehensive strategy is to also test the most-significant and least-significant 32 bits separately. When we focus on the least-significant 32 bits, and, specifically, in the case where their bits are reversed, we find that the scrambled Xorshift ge Pu"&@; IsIρ;9Xb
e30bcb246253a902…6f6cc23a…2023-02-13 18:15:28 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. actually track the clock drifts, rather than always sitting on ~erry~ msg for up to 30min-epsilon )
8702c2ec7d804e87…994f2406…2022-11-18 18:48:39 <phf> i bought an eizo (but which one i don't remember now, because again after researching the options, one knows that XY1234 is the right now, good luck recalling it later though) from a russian guy in russia, and he was a genuine pauper, using his eizo to watch kurosava movies "in perfect definition"
d8075740f3f26b54…f3f26b54…2022-12-28 21:32:05 <asciilifeform> imho an acceptable solution is 'if no one in l1 has bin with $hash, you suck yer thumb'
b3da5d3a64f33ce8…e6b5a04d…2023-01-16 13:22:58 <cgra> right, so broadcast and direct cannot collide then
e4e44b4c6ae264e3…6ae264e3…2023-02-03 17:45:08 <phf> nerators systematically fail Big Crush.” Pu"&@; IsIρ;9Xb
fa090d7be30bcb24…e30bcb24…2023-02-13 18:17:46 <asciilifeform> ... if a peer is 'warm', yer clock can be thought of as effectively synced
a26edb64ca78eb15…56008339…2022-12-28 21:38:54 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019629 << that basically means that for things like inline graphs, or lolcats one is disincentivized from using pest. if i posted a funny, and everyone laughed, i want to be able to come back 3 years later and reminisce, rather than discover Cpr!]r`f >~
1fe24b45d8075740…d8075740…2022-12-28 21:32:27 <asciilifeform> i.e. no bin auto-propagation beyond 1 level.
b8fe8b67b3da5d3a…b3da5d3a…2023-01-16 13:28:18 <cgra> another case: not sure how much funny to be had, but a peer could respond to a getdata with false commands. extra code checks if nothing else
122d00a6fa090d7b…8dda7895…2023-02-13 18:23:47 <phf> some kind of running average on clock_time vs packet_time_stamp across all peers
61694e63a26edb64…a26edb64…2022-12-28 21:38:54 <phf> that there's a hole, because everyone's warez knobs are set to 2 years. Cpr!]r`f >~
81b12aa2a26edb64…1cea7097…2022-12-28 21:45:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 16:33:20 asciilifeform[5]: imho an acceptable solution is 'if no one in l1 has bin with $hash, you suck yer thumb'
42f752541fe24b45…1fe24b45…2022-12-28 21:33:32 <asciilifeform> possibly, operators could optionally enable 'propagate warez request' if they have disk/bw to spare. then : this.
1f1fab16b8fe8b67…b8fe8b67…2023-01-16 13:31:12 <cgra> re version, maybe some trick between incompatible message versions becomes possible, if version fiddled. cannot picture a concrete example though.
219a9f553d33713a…3d33713a…2023-02-03 17:47:16 <phf> “The generators under consid- eration require relatively long seeds (at least 16 bytes). To generate a sufficiently long seed (128 or 1024 bits), we produce a random integer with the Bash shell’s internal RANDOM function as an initial seed for to the 64-bit SplitMix gen- erator [8].”
74f6f1de122d00a6…fa090d7b…2023-02-13 18:24:40 <asciilifeform> imho averaging wouldn't getcha anyffin but a slow collective drift
8a13e73fc8b1c4cc…c8b1c4cc…2022-11-18 18:49:37 asciilifeform fondly remembers old 'medical' eizo w/ 10bit b&w panel
1cea709742f75254…77354862…2022-12-28 21:34:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:07:44 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: lolcats really oughta travel e.g. a-lubystream->b-lubystream->c etc. after c->gimmebinwithhash->b-gimmebinwithhash->a
ea9193f01f1fab16…1f1fab16…2023-01-16 13:34:27 <cgra> while at it (compatiblity-breaking (borderline-?)nitpicks): why specify 'speaker' field in messages, if not going to use it: ignore, getdata, prod, keyoffer, keyslice?
22b8e3d9219a9f55…dc7d376f…2023-02-03 17:53:33 asciilifeform went to read phf's 'random walks' link but head not came back yet, may take a while
e217dc8274f6f1de…74f6f1de…2023-02-13 18:25:47 <asciilifeform> instead track delta per peer. if $peer is 'warm', you now have effectively synced clocks, within bounds of oscillator noise
e0a45d648a13e73f…857d0233…2022-11-18 18:51:27 <phf> lol i was about to mention that line. maybe one should buy a gx560, a monocrhome radiology one, and use it for work
b4a28270ea9193f0…ea9193f0…2023-01-16 13:35:45 <cgra> and another: why follow text messages' format in some other message types even if not going to use chain hash and speaker fields?
5177a06422b8e3d9…219a9f55…2023-02-03 18:31:46 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022196 << from reading luby ideal selection is not random, but follows some kind of fancy distribution. i imagine oc is similar
2cc94532e217dc82…122d00a6…2023-02-13 18:25:51 <phf> well, we're already agreeing that packets reporting 15 minute difference from their actual time ain't a big deal. what's a little drift among friends
e65f46cbb4a28270…64f33ce8…2023-01-16 14:40:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020487 << imho obv. but perhaps oughta be included in spec -- a getdata reply oughta go 'where was expected' and never elsewhere
007c05ad5177a064…454ee941…2023-02-03 18:33:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 12:23:22 asciilifeform[4]: so, for instance, does 'prng fails linear complexity test' imply that one can construct a luby payload that will never properly send (i.e. some blox systematically avoided) ? or 1 that takes 10x the expected # of chunks to send..?
58e34c552cc94532…e217dc82…2023-02-13 18:26:45 <asciilifeform> lol 14min 59s drift 'no big deal', 15 -- goes to /dev/null and ends up having to be getdata'd (which in turn requires at least 1 to get through, at least a prod, to trigger)
8f0c26566af26ce4…8a13e73f…2022-11-18 18:52:34 <asciilifeform> buy it on lulbay, minus the 'medicinal tax'
9b21f7b6e65f46cb…c374e5c2…2023-01-16 14:41:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 08:29:50 cgra[deedbot]: another case: not sure how much funny to be had, but a peer could respond to a getdata with false commands. extra code checks if nothing else
c88743a358e34c55…58e34c55…2023-02-13 18:27:58 <asciilifeform> but what you ~actually~ want is simply to be immune to replays. which can get (for 'warm' peer) by tracking the actual delta, and nao your expir time with respect to that peer can be e.g. 10sec, or whatever multiple of the ping time with that peer yer comfortable with, rather than +/-15min
9e62be378f0c2656…8f0c2656…2022-11-18 18:53:53 asciilifeform wonders what a modern-chemistry 1-bit lcd might look like, in re contrast ratio
2814d66afdc92763…fdc92763…2023-02-03 18:47:17 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022193 << also nist test code ftr https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GINARTeam/NIST-statistical-test/master/10_linear_complexity_test.py
179e9dacc88743a3…c88743a3…2023-02-13 18:28:28 <asciilifeform> ( for msg from previously 'cold' peer, still need sumthing like the old logic , tho, afaik )
f351a1159e62be37…9e62be37…2022-11-18 18:54:38 <asciilifeform> (hypothetically, ideal would be 'oled', and minus the burnout -- iirc it's the blue diodes which burn)
69d10155e17b5525…e17b5525…2023-01-16 14:42:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020488 << in principle, an old pestron (e.g. 1 that not knows about multipart) can getdata for an incompat. msg and choke on it. there's little to be done about this imho
5227e8792814d66a…007c05ad…2023-02-03 18:48:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 12:21:31 phf[deedbot|awt]: e.g. https://www.turingfinance.com/hacking-the-random-walk-hypothesis/#linear-complexity-test suggests that linear complexity test is a test by insinuation. it attempts to automatically construct a lsfr out of bit stream
75c96093179e9dac…179e9dac…2023-02-13 18:29:50 <asciilifeform> the point of this, if not obv, is simply to unclutter the antireplay buffer.
5693ea7a69d10155…9b21f7b6…2023-01-16 14:44:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 08:32:37 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: re version, maybe some trick between incompatible message versions becomes possible, if version fiddled. cannot picture a concrete example though.
9edd792c5227e879…22b8e3d9…2023-02-03 18:47:38 <asciilifeform> phf: aha. was trying to think of 'what happens to it under variously sad prng'
7f2a8b0e75c96093…75c96093…2023-02-13 18:30:30 <asciilifeform> ( 'filter', in 0xfa predraft, sec. 5.3.1. )
c4070981a7af57d2…6af26ce4…2022-11-18 19:42:10 <phf> i can't even figure out how much that gx560 costs. i guess different configurations run between $9k above and $25k
2e6ccd445693ea7a…69d10155…2023-01-16 14:43:15 <asciilifeform> (does say 'prototype' on the box, neh)
ea0d44ee9edd792c…9edd792c…2023-02-03 18:50:38 <asciilifeform> ( given that transmitted chunks are reorderable, potentially, using an actual trng -- 'enemy may infer order' failure mode can be ruled out )
19f364c4c4070981…a7af57d2…2022-11-18 19:43:11 <asciilifeform> phf: the ~20k one seems to be simply pair of units on 1 mount
3ab81cde2e6ccd44…2e6ccd44…2023-01-16 14:44:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020489 + http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020490 << compatibility artifact. (originally was gonna have'em in all msgs, to simplify parsing. in new spec, are absent only in bin msgs)
565fab2bea0d44ee…ea0d44ee…2023-02-03 18:51:40 <asciilifeform> so afaik an attack would have to consist of a constructed payload that eats surprising bw, or even not completes
24128eb964eb14d1…6253a902…2023-02-13 18:34:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:39:07 asciilifeform[5]: jonsykkel et al : runnable example of asciilifeform's filter . and somewhat braindead demo coad for same.
4456314719f364c4…c4070981…2022-11-18 19:43:20 <phf> (i've noticed that i had an ebay alert for one of the previous iterations, and it never triggered, so i'm not sure about that lulbay route. possibly units like that stay at one location until internal monitor/hour counter goes above some number, at which point they just get recycled)
0036f30c3ab81cde…5693ea7a…2023-01-16 14:45:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 08:35:41 cgra[jonsykkel]: while at it (compatiblity-breaking (borderline-?)nitpicks): why specify 'speaker' field in messages, if not going to use it: ignore, getdata, prod, keyoffer, keyslice?
9aef5fc6565fab2b…565fab2b…2023-02-03 18:52:41 <asciilifeform> ( e.g. a hypothetical lolcat.jpg that loox unremarkable and may end up distributed on pest nets but somehow takes 1tb of lubyistic chunks to actually move )
ca4dfa9724128eb9…2cc94532…2023-02-13 18:33:34 <phf> ah yeah i just ignore this kind of implementation policy details :}
ca7ee6f444563147…19f364c4…2022-11-18 19:44:51 <asciilifeform> and yea one aint likely to find latest model of a medicalism on surplus market
ba4da6510036f30c…0036f30c…2023-01-16 14:45:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 08:36:57 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: and another: why follow text messages' format in some other message types even if not going to use chain hash and speaker fields?
0b653eaf9aef5fc6…9aef5fc6…2023-02-03 18:55:19 <asciilifeform> rather like a de bruijn sequence worx against von neumann's fortune teller
a77b1351ca4dfa97…64eb14d1…2023-02-13 18:34:01 asciilifeform also 'i'ma ignore the boring parts', is how we ended up with the lulnurseries etc. headaches
5a033edeca7ee6f4…ca7ee6f4…2022-11-18 19:44:59 <asciilifeform> there were iirc gx540s on ebay etc last saw
3a9d2ce1ba4da651…3ab81cde…2023-01-16 14:44:45 asciilifeform in general proponent of mandatorily-present, fixed-length fields -- eliminates broad classes of exploitable bugs
5b4312cbba4da651…3a9d2ce1…2023-01-16 14:48:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020494 << apropos, anuther item that oughta be included in spec -- 'broken heart' to represent a getdata'd msg that for 1 reason or anuther invalid and not displayed. (iirc discussed previously)
598ad71c0b653eaf…2814d66a…2023-02-03 18:55:34 <phf> well, there's all kinds of questions as far as "malevolent counterparty"
4ea76deaa77b1351…a77b1351…2023-02-13 18:34:13 <asciilifeform> at some pt gotta unignore'em, to get usable proggy
c9d24dfb5a033ede…5a033ede…2022-11-18 19:45:35 <asciilifeform> if want latest, gotta wait for the counters to actually run to where 'not guaranteed medical' or watnot
81905ef25b4312cb…ba4da651…2023-01-16 14:49:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 09:44:07 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020488 << in principle, an old pestron (e.g. 1 that not knows about multipart) can getdata for an incompat. msg and choke on it. there's little to be done about this imho
21e91d27598ad71c…0b653eaf…2023-02-03 18:56:14 <asciilifeform> well on pestnet, properly malevolent counterparty can spam at will until unpeered. moar interesting imho q is re subtly boobytrapped payloads from third parties
82a2affa4ea76dea…ca4dfa97…2023-02-13 18:34:55 <phf> well, no lulnurseries are a a result of somebody explicitly not ignoring your prescriptions!
768aa5e5c9d24dfb…44563147…2022-11-18 19:47:24 <phf> i suspect there's not even a back of truck market, of some doctor selling his out of commission imaging monitor on ebay, because most lack imagination when it comes to things like that. "why would i want this custom appliance, when you can just buy a dell monitor for $200???"
187def1221e91d27…21e91d27…2023-02-03 18:56:37 <asciilifeform> would seem possible if prng has a 'usable' flaw
d650eef1768aa5e5…c9d24dfb…2022-11-18 19:48:03 <asciilifeform> phf: iirc for xrays they actually gotta use the 10+bit b&w's to get usable view
5fb828d3a36822b7…0d95afef…2023-01-16 14:50:17 <phf> i think your thinking about getdata is linear. there's technically no guarantee that anybody is going to respond to your getdata request, at any guaranteed time
d2469308187def12…598ad71c…2023-02-03 18:56:55 <phf> oc can be done with an explicit switch on and an explicit switched off, so e.g. can ask counterparty to send you lolcat then never ask to stop
fb83e47bb1c9af7a…b1c9af7a…2023-02-13 18:35:57 <asciilifeform> i.e. asciilifeform not properly worked out implications of proposed algo, result is a barfalicious rube goldbergism
8d893079d2469308…d2469308…2023-02-03 18:57:52 <phf> because only reciever know if fully recieved "oh, keep sending, keep sending, i still don't quite have the whole thing" can be an entirely legitimate state
72facc73d2469308…187def12…2023-02-03 18:57:55 <asciilifeform> for instance. which is wai may need at least 'soft' peer bw quota, e.g. 'hey asciilifeform , why do you eat 99% of my bw asking for lolcat_part1_100.jpg 24/7 ?'
8d2c427dfb83e47b…82a2affa…2023-02-13 18:40:32 <phf> well, it's more like i have a live system that's being constructed as it's being used, so i don't have to do it athena style. i can e.g. observe real effects and adjust things as needed
e458e510c914071f…c914071f…2022-11-18 19:48:45 <asciilifeform> it comes with the mouth sensor thing, as a kit
a69771a00157b472…5fb828d3…2023-01-16 14:51:20 <phf> so the process should be upfront assumed to be fully desynchronized: you're going to have "holes" in your log, potentially indefinitely, and you're going to make getdata requests, until you personaly decide to give up, and they might come back at any random time in the future
461a5ac08d893079…72facc73…2023-02-03 18:58:27 <asciilifeform> need to at least indicate to operator that it is happening, imho
eb9bf4468d2c427d…8d2c427d…2023-02-13 18:41:27 <phf> right now the entire history of pest, pushed into a hash-table, returns a result in under ms
ebcd57e1e458e510…768aa5e5…2022-11-18 19:49:09 <phf> right, but my point is that they use it for xray, but then still do data entry on a dell. that's not even a bad part, it's more like this particularly separation means that "very expensive high end monitor i could use at home to read new york times" doesn't even register. i'm guessing of course.
e5b72f4aa69771a0…0157b472…2023-01-16 14:51:45 <asciilifeform> ( among other reasons, a msg could even contain garbage where the chain hashes oughta be, and so no one will ever supply a msg with that hash , no matter what )
cb4256a3461a5ac0…461a5ac0…2023-02-03 18:58:52 <asciilifeform> given peer oughn't be able to soak up station bw 24/7 silently
b02cbccceb9bf446…fb83e47b…2023-02-13 18:41:30 <asciilifeform> in general imho this is sound, but in actual practice potentially painful, so makes sense to at least a little think-before-doing
945b6098ebcd57e1…e458e510…2022-11-18 19:49:48 <asciilifeform> prolly not erry dentist. but where oncologists etc., 10k lcd, would expect, dwarfed by cost of lawsuit, so used.
10f43056e5b72f4a…e5b72f4a…2023-01-16 14:52:34 <asciilifeform> ^ for this reason, getdata attempts gotta be finite (or will clutter the list of hashes exempt from timestamp check 4evah )
eead6f86cb4256a3…8d893079…2023-02-03 18:59:32 <phf> right, or some probabilistic checks "ok, dude, you should have had the thing by now unless your channel have 0.9999 error rate"
646a709db02cbccc…eb9bf446…2023-02-13 18:43:38 <phf> in fact doing a vector store, so one array for hash, one array for message, where indexes are the same, will give a naive hash query of walking the hash array until you find the right one in under ms even for the whole history of republican logs
7a19c063945b6098…945b6098…2022-11-18 19:50:13 <asciilifeform> there's usually an ordinary 'dell' etc. standing next to it
321e80cdeead6f86…cb4256a3…2023-02-03 19:00:08 <asciilifeform> even nao a broken or mischevious peer can throw getdata at you repeatedly
8fea9355646a709d…646a709d…2023-02-13 18:44:44 <phf> and if you run out of performance space there you do what them industrial routers do and just bloom filter the hell out of it
78add3007a19c063…7a19c063…2022-11-18 19:51:45 asciilifeform apropos, for some yrs looked for surplus digital xray sensor, cuz processing film in bathtub is a bitch. the only ones easily findable are the tiny dental ones, with bite marks lol. anyffin larger -- 5fig
c40b87d51dd95f89…1dd95f89…2023-01-16 14:53:29 <asciilifeform> otherwise yer open to memory exhaustion attack
28c6bc8d321e80cd…321e80cd…2023-02-03 19:00:30 <asciilifeform> (if you dun ration resources, it'll thrash disk and slow yer station to a crawl)
cc25e8f88fea9355…b02cbccc…2023-02-13 18:44:55 <asciilifeform> no doubt thing small enuff that almost fits in l1 cache, for nao
a7c7ed9778add300…78add300…2022-11-18 19:52:49 <asciilifeform> all of'em also run on ancient winxp shitware, no 'usb webcam standard' or anyffin of the kind
dd294202c40b87d5…a69771a0…2023-01-16 14:54:11 <phf> well, any time in the future, even after you already gave up, or before you did
98bf119928c6bc8d…eead6f86…2023-02-03 19:00:46 <phf> yeah, but that's to your point of "one for one", luby explicitly fails the one for one
1c47e394cc25e8f8…cc25e8f8…2023-02-13 18:45:15 <asciilifeform> orig. thrd was re wat-do when gb's of warez moving b/w peers, tho
253388f4dd294202…c40b87d5…2023-01-16 14:54:42 <asciilifeform> if a getdata response shows up after you've already removed the hash from getdata list (i.e. exempt from timestamp) -- tough cookies
2bf844da98bf1199…28c6bc8d…2023-02-03 19:01:39 <asciilifeform> correct, tho with getdata, 'one for one' is only tru re bw, given as sending getdata is considerably cheaper than answering it
4f10480af19d7d5c…f19d7d5c…2022-11-18 19:53:27 <asciilifeform> finding the shitware aint trivial, either, normally not included with the toothmarked suplus boxen
c3bc826677e722d0…77e722d0…2023-02-13 18:46:01 <asciilifeform> tracking clock deltas would letcha keep the antireplay guarantee while escaping sudden need for buying shoebox fulla ram stix
92e9c8c499c3855b…dd294202…2023-01-16 14:55:11 <phf> well, it's tough cookies ~for you~ so obv gotta weigh your options
39c7bf1899c3855b…99c3855b…2023-01-16 14:55:13 <asciilifeform> ( how long to keep'em around -- up to operator )
e95feab2c3bc8266…8fea9355…2023-02-13 18:46:20 <phf> but we don't have implementation of gb's of warez
f5d6b294863b8d3e…863b8d3e…2022-11-18 19:56:24 asciilifeform unsurprised at cost of digital xray sensors: it aint only 'medical tax', but thing needs very high density single-crystal ccd to be of ~any use
fcacdf4751956786…51956786…2023-02-03 19:03:24 <phf> also you can definitely do ddos with luby. as of right no handshake in protocol, so you can e.g. forge a valid "ignore" packet, but with bogus origin ip, so that will update AT, and then you follow it up by "turn on luby please for lolcat.jpg"
e6b1141051956786…f06d2179…2023-02-03 19:03:40 <asciilifeform> ( hence wai per spec, getdata is only serviced if 'cpu cycles available' )
bda9ed78e95feab2…c3bc8266…2023-02-13 18:46:35 <asciilifeform> (recall that filter , per current predraft spec, stores hashes of ~all~, not only chained, msgs )
3e468994f5d6b294…f5d6b294…2022-11-18 19:56:44 <asciilifeform> (cuz there ~aint any such thing as xray optics)
399c32ae21f1373a…21f1373a…2023-01-16 14:56:04 <asciilifeform> atm spec not mentions broken hearts, or the need to represent holes in log (permanent or otherwise) -- but oughta
34ab930021f1373a…b4a28270…2023-01-16 20:00:09 cgra wouldn't at this point consider other than easy-to-change db (ie. sqlite), given lack of his vision of how the db is really going to end up when 'done'
bda6db17bda9ed78…e95feab2…2023-02-13 18:47:03 <phf> right now the most we know about it, is that it's probably going to be luby and there's going to be a special inline message type to announce it
680f29eb399c32ae…399c32ae…2023-01-16 14:58:28 asciilifeform recalls early pest thrd with a briefly returned oldtimer (ben_vulpes?) where the latter argued that spec is a bloat warcrime because mentions not only protocol, as in classical rfcs, but tries to be 'complete bakeable recipe'
914f0dd834ab9300…34ab9300…2023-01-16 20:59:21 <cgra> can asciilifeform give any other reason to not hash version and command with msg, other than cuz already ~set in stone?
2704e93c6b6e5520…6b6e5520…2023-02-03 19:04:52 <phf> or better yet "turn on luby for all the files that i know you have"
5df0ccffbda6db17…bda9ed78…2023-02-13 18:47:11 <asciilifeform> phf: indeed we haven't yet. but will, and the moving parts gotta work correctly under warez conditions
058dff773c24f47a…3c24f47a…2022-11-18 20:03:29 <phf> i don't think previous goxes were this entertaining because it's just grifters grifting, but here you have the lizards in on the action, and their grift is like next level 4d chess grift. it's just beautiful.
744eef93680f29eb…680f29eb…2023-01-16 15:00:07 <asciilifeform> ^ imho not avoidable -- a p2p protocol includes good measure of 'social expectation' of station behaviour, on top of packet format per se
d2529796914f0dd8…914f0dd8…2023-01-16 21:17:56 <cgra> i suppose, if non-zero net-chains were enforced (unlike now), you could distinguish direct and broadcast from each other by the net-chain value and wouldn't have to 100% trust the command value.
953a6e182704e93c…e6b11410…2023-02-03 19:06:23 <asciilifeform> if you've the key, can indeed trigger lubyism to arbitrary ip, if can route forged packet to receiver
1e502f425df0ccff…5df0ccff…2023-02-13 18:47:36 <asciilifeform> key there is that these msgs will still end up hashed and hashes kept in filter (otherwise yer open to replay)
ed146cdb058dff77…3e468994…2022-11-18 20:06:17 <asciilifeform> phf: to asciilifeform loox like bog-standard gox ( with 3-4 additional digits of moolah in the mix from blackrock etc. via 'ministry of cooling btc exchrate' ) but admittedly asciilifeform not deeply tuned into subj
769aebb4744eef93…92e9c8c4…2023-01-16 15:00:22 <phf> i am frankly of similar opinion, ought to separate "recommendations for author" from "spec". e.g. details of various nursery buffers, or even things like "mandatory" timeouts
928e8d05d2529796…02e37e8a…2023-01-16 21:20:57 <asciilifeform> cgra: can't think of any convincing reason , other than where it'd be a 1st class bitch to retrofit
e549a91d953a6e18…953a6e18…2023-02-03 19:09:38 <asciilifeform> fwiw this needs not only peer key, but also to know of a valid file hash to make luby req for
8dc033231e502f42…1e502f42…2023-02-13 18:48:08 <asciilifeform> unless (as someone -- phf? -- proposed?) they can be discarded quickly via a different heuristic in the case of replay
3cbe86eaed146cdb…058dff77…2022-11-18 20:07:43 <phf> asciilifeform, previous gox were dirt people (depending on your inclination, possibly guided or subverted by cloud people), this is cloud people through and through in on the action
30e4f79d769aebb4…769aebb4…2023-01-16 15:02:15 <phf> because the irc nursery behavior turned out to be entirely broken as soon as we started test running it, even though the base protocol can be made to work
3e0f4c80928e8d05…d2529796…2023-01-16 21:27:22 <cgra> does asciilifeform see possible somekinda 'reboot' where accumulated and identified, saddening wrinkles in spec get straightened? i keep thinking of this being still way experimental, and just a dozen or so d00ds 'just chatting', while seeing this command kind of nuisances somewhat pile up
6c61e04be549a91d…e549a91d…2023-02-03 19:10:43 <asciilifeform> i.e. joker can try to use his l1 as a 'ddos cannon'
640ac0f18dc03323…8dc03323…2023-02-13 18:51:19 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform expects that once warez starts moving regularly, most replay attemps featuring randomly stolen traffic will logically involve bin msgs
7372dc8c3cbe86ea…3cbe86ea…2022-11-18 20:09:59 <phf> so there's a lot more "goldstein, the director of gold, was also the uncle of mary breker-horowitz, who is seen in this picture sucking dick on amphetamines"
a3d4aa7830e4f79d…30e4f79d…2023-01-16 15:14:41 <phf> you like to defend even your bad decisions like they are strokes of genuis, but if original pest wasn't written perfect like athena from the brow of her father, then awt wouldn't be saddled with a lot of "legacy" code, that clearly didn't pan out
c675fb9f3e0f4c80…3e0f4c80…2023-01-16 21:38:01 <cgra> in my limited imagination, how'd such a reboot possibly look like: new log era declared, newpest net forms, oldpest net is abandoned over time... or both nets go on, and eventually names are being called.
12ff1383640ac0f1…640ac0f1…2023-02-13 18:51:47 <asciilifeform> (given as they'll constitute the bulk of pest traffic)
c5ad48777372dc8c…7372dc8c…2022-11-18 20:12:59 <phf> when dirt people go bad it's usually to put spinners on rims, where's there a lot more untroubled largesse in the whole sbf/ftx affair. everything that i read (and i'm not even explicitly seeking it out, various locklins are poping up with snarky opinion pieces in my feed) elicits a kind of "god, DAMN, wooden doors?" react
aee7df84a3d4aa78…744eef93…2023-01-16 15:16:53 <asciilifeform> phf: there's no doubt bad decisions, and would rather find out what they are nao, than in hypothetical 'later' where >dozen folx tuned in
ef7ca3f4e6a20c59…6c61e04b…2023-02-03 19:12:31 <asciilifeform> imho the Right Thing to do is to make such lulz visible to operators, rather than try to rule out mechanically
eabd879712ff1383…12ff1383…2023-02-13 18:53:34 <asciilifeform> atm, noshit, 'uncatchable joe', and we can't reply on 'naturally occurring' jokers to test the antireplay logic, will need to do it deliberately
90fdd3bbaee7df84…aee7df84…2023-01-16 15:17:23 <asciilifeform> fwiw in current draft spec no 'mandatory' constants, but only 'recommended'.
7df5d581ef7ca3f4…ef7ca3f4…2023-02-03 19:13:01 <asciilifeform> 'hey asciilifeform , what do you think yer doing?'
8ea65f4790fdd3bb…a3d4aa78…2023-01-16 15:18:06 <phf> like e.g. i'd still like to see a poc packet management code, that can put or reject any arbitrary packet into the backlog
58ba2a267df5d581…e6a20c59…2023-02-03 19:13:45 <phf> there can be a legitimate reason for doing something like that, for example that would be direct effect of initial log sync
2e7231e01cb4b27e…1cb4b27e…2023-02-13 18:54:17 <asciilifeform> ( and for that matter, most of the possible 'misbehaviour space' of the protocol remains unexplored )
b8b27dced169305e…52338ba0…2022-11-18 21:23:28 <signpost> "their houses are made of house! their offices are made of office!"
c0851e408ea65f47…8ea65f47…2023-01-16 15:18:56 <phf> which to me appears like in the worst case it's actually a topological sort on a graph, that can arbitrarily reorder log order
0d93a51abe933b99…2efc5daf…2023-01-16 21:41:11 <cgra> phf, well for instance, that command field. could actually use it in full
3e916c6858ba2a26…7df5d581…2023-02-03 19:13:48 <asciilifeform> the other obv pill would be to require a handshake before firing off luby sequence
d976ef542e7231e0…bda6db17…2023-02-13 18:55:29 <phf> but wait if you want timestamp to be anti-replay, than it has at be > rather than >=
9d6dba562e7231e0…2e7231e0…2023-02-13 18:55:29 <asciilifeform> ( and see also. this is 1 place where arguably gotta get it right ab initio, rather than iteratively )
9d1a1f53b8b27dce…d169305e…2022-11-18 21:24:26 asciilifeform never been to a sublizard's house, much less a lizard's, not knows what the doors are supposed to be made of ( niobium ? silicon nitride ? )
b732eb870d93a51a…0d93a51a…2023-01-16 21:42:21 <cgra> and perhaps the field arrangement would be easier to remember in some cases. a group of binary messages now have a speaker field which isn't supposed to be used
7de65f8a9d6dba56…24128eb9…2023-02-13 18:56:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 12:41:45 asciilifeform[4]: whereas if, hypothetically, next yr there is a pestnet with 400 people, and someone discovers 'magick packet' that floods it to the point of unusability, even after 'fix', 395 of'em will go back to 'telegram' or whatever and that'll be it.
aba03eac9d1a1f53…f731d00e…2022-11-18 21:24:27 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-11 asciilifeform: fwiw in asciilifeform's cosmography, a sublizard is a 'human' who directly executes orders from lizard, while exposed to 'humans' in daily context
f841b196aa8fb57a…aa8fb57a…2023-01-16 15:22:16 asciilifeform entirely on board re 'nursery buffers were idjit idea', threw'em entirely out in 0xfa, were forced mistake on acct of ircism
b432668c7de65f8a…9d6dba56…2023-02-13 18:56:22 <asciilifeform> phf: atm we have in 4.2.1.1 'Any Message bearing a Timestamp more than 15 minutes away, in either direction, from the Time at a receiver’s station at the time of its receipt, is deemed stale...'
a14bea8faba03eac…39b398df…2022-11-18 21:24:53 <phf> asciilifeform, originally a holocaust meme, that's now a standin for a popcorn grade conspiracy theories, where you don't really have emotional attachment to details, but in it for the entertainment value
dfc34f65f841b196…c0851e40…2023-01-16 15:23:17 <phf> well, the order of packets in selfchain are fixed, we know as much. but the order of packets in netchain are subjective to each speaker
5e127e06bc3a8917…be933b99…2023-01-16 21:43:47 <phf> yeah, but you have to make a case for why the change makes it are cleaner, and so far, you're arguing from the opposite
f1b173af5f0f622e…d9088769…2023-02-03 19:14:43 <asciilifeform> sorta like the handshake used in 'rekey'
15f284e5b432668c…b432668c…2023-02-13 18:56:33 <asciilifeform> so already > . asciilifeform's examples upstack were malformed.
7941b13adfc34f65…f841b196…2023-01-16 15:23:47 <asciilifeform> entirely correct (and, on top of this, notionally in gui client can set arbitrary netchain, to make 'reply')
89d01a9b5e127e06…bc3a8917…2023-01-16 21:44:14 cgra could overestimate the eventual severity, though. not really saying 'need reboot now'
09db548ef1b173af…5f0f622e…2023-02-03 19:15:13 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022247 << your initial sync is a bandwidth heavy cornucopia. long stream of getdata requests, and depending on how you implement, a getdata for a message with luby payload results in "oh yeah and by the way also give me stream for this luby"
bbc636d415f284e5…d976ef54…2023-02-13 19:15:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023247 << i guess the thinking is that further restricting time buffer will let you store less data in filter. so instead of it being a +-15m it's essentially +15m
b166de017941b13a…7941b13a…2023-01-16 15:25:44 asciilifeform in his attempt at pestron, aims to display msgs in timestamp order, but with clickable arrows to self/net chain predecessors
c1b5219e89d01a9b…89d01a9b…2023-01-16 21:45:42 <cgra> phf, for example getdata message has a speaker field, which is documented as 'do not use'. why isn't it cleaner if this field didn't exist in getdata message?
09754e2809db548e…5227e879…2023-02-03 19:16:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 14:15:00 phf[awt|deedbot]: there can be a legitimate reason for doing something like that, for example that would be direct effect of initial log sync
3d402e4ebbc636d4…7de65f8a…2023-02-13 19:16:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 13:31:20 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: the point of this, if not obv, is simply to unclutter the antireplay buffer.
56bc887c081f5433…a14bea8f…2022-11-18 21:26:52 <phf> asciilifeform, originally yeah the observation that doors in some gas chambers were made out of wood, which evolved into a meme where tonny sopranos and paulie are having an imaginary conversation about it "ay tone, on mu mudda, wooden doors." "geddafuckouttaheeee"
ed966f6db166de01…dfc34f65…2023-01-16 15:25:59 <phf> and the construction of netchain is the artifact of "what's the last packet i got"
b6532ddbc1b5219e…c1b5219e…2023-01-16 21:49:05 <cgra> i'm looking at the pre-draft spec, above example in section 5.4.4.2
6b37c64109754e28…09db548e…2023-02-03 19:15:46 <phf> in fact i can see how a naive log sync might result in a self-ddos :D
4385f71156bc887c…f5afc3b8…2022-11-18 21:27:43 <asciilifeform> ( ftr per asciilifeform's model, goxen are created (by gifting some 'favoured son' 8fig of printola, uplifting him from 2nd lieutenant at $hedgefund lizard kindergarten to 'captain of industry'(tm)) for 1) cool down exchrate by minting papercoin, erryday 2) to be dropped as ballast when reich collapse turns a notch and des
5340c1bcb6532ddb…928e8d05…2023-01-16 21:58:38 <asciilifeform> cgra: thinking about it, really oughta revise that (and similar) subsects -- old pestrons expect the obv value for speaker (given as they dunhave the 'filter' and ~will~ think that a msg sent to $peer and somehow mirrored back is 'own' )
c27ed52d6b37c641…f1b173af…2023-02-03 19:15:58 <asciilifeform> well per current spec, only text msgs are getdata'ble
12cd4fa54385f711…4385f711…2022-11-18 21:28:14 <asciilifeform> ... 2) to be dropped as ballast when reich collapse turns a notch and desperate dampening is needed.
68a92f2fab8239ed…ab8239ed…2023-01-16 15:27:42 <asciilifeform> ( and on a net even a little larger than the current, there's not even any notion that erryone will see the same broadcasts; so inescapable )
76d1519a5340c1bc…5340c1bc…2023-01-16 21:59:26 <asciilifeform> ( peer->self and self->peer aint mechanically distinguishable w/out either speaker field or filter (where a mirrored msg will be zapped immed.) )
c2634b28c27ed52d…c27ed52d…2023-02-03 19:16:34 <asciilifeform> lubyism in asciilifeform's conception is entirely separate protocol, with transport via pest directmsgs
0198824847e873c9…bbc636d4…2023-02-13 19:16:33 <phf> but that's at the expensive of either broken timestamp, or strong awareness of the counterparty's clock
e4187b7512cd4fa5…12cd4fa5…2022-11-18 21:28:29 <asciilifeform> ftx per this model worked for (1) for coupla yrs, then when req'd -- (2). )
4d028fea68a92f2f…ed966f6d…2023-01-16 15:28:03 <phf> so the points at which multiple parallel subjective netchains link up are fully driven by random packet loss behavior
a16f07bc76d1519a…76d1519a…2023-01-16 22:00:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020582 << can picture changes that could justify the headache of 'reboot' but cosmetic fiddles imho aint in that category
d904691fc2634b28…6b37c641…2023-02-03 19:16:36 <phf> yes, but yes, but log will eventually contain hashes for payload, as per discussion
c247529c01988248…47e873c9…2023-02-13 19:16:58 <asciilifeform> would only need to track the delta vs. each warm peer
da664bd0e4187b75…56bc887c…2022-11-18 21:29:17 <phf> asciilifeform, there's absolutely more things going on here than just waterfall
61e0288fa16f07bc…d076cfc0…2023-01-16 22:02:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 16:28:35 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: does asciilifeform see possible somekinda 'reboot' where accumulated and identified, saddening wrinkles in spec get straightened? i keep thinking of this being still way experimental, and just a dozen or so d00ds 'just chatting', while seeing this command kind of nuis
85594497c247529c…01988248…2023-02-13 19:17:37 <phf> well, no you have to track delta which is a probabilistic value, that's split between time drift and packet delay
7f1113f4da664bd0…e4187b75…2022-11-18 21:29:34 asciilifeform cannot 'proofy proof'(tm) but afaik no avail. facts contradict this 'astronomical' hypothesis
4fc2c96d8ddcd4c4…68a92f2f…2023-01-16 15:28:28 <asciilifeform> that, and bounce decay (on larger net)
f175d6df61e0288f…61e0288f…2023-01-16 22:02:06 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-26 asciilifeform: thimbronion: current notion, summarized: we bite off 64byte from payload, and get 2 new fields, call'em 'unlock' and 'lock'. lock == h256(errything else in msg, incl. 'unlock', and unrevealed 32byte turd 'S'.); unlock = 'S' from yer previous msg.
9d86c7eb54aef0d5…54aef0d5…2023-02-03 19:16:56 <asciilifeform> doesn't mean one necessarily has to fetch erry single one during log sync tho
f479882e85594497…c247529c…2023-02-13 19:18:24 <asciilifeform> phf: idea is to reduce the effective window to span any plausible packet delay
1ba0eeed7f1113f4…da664bd0…2022-11-18 21:31:34 <phf> i don't know, it's turning into one of those ascii threads, where you're trying to convince readers of something entirely unrelated, because you have some point to make. i'm saying /i/ find the ftx amusing because i already found all kinds of extra details, that go beyond the model that you have verbalized n-times already
e1942ec34fc2c96d…8ddcd4c4…2023-01-16 15:28:54 <phf> now under normal circumstances, this will be near realtime
db62e629f175d6df…a16f07bc…2023-01-16 22:02:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020592 << from asciilifeform's pov, protocol is in fact cleaner with fixed-length, fixed-position errything (and in fact was reluctant to propose 'binary' msg types where the usual fields entirely missing)
f8010e4ef479882e…f479882e…2023-02-13 19:18:36 <asciilifeform> (factoring out the long-term drift when possible)
abb3b413e1942ec3…e1942ec3…2023-01-16 15:31:40 <phf> but lets say one station is on a unreliable connection. it's lost subchain (by either fully arriving, or having to be reconstructed with getdata) will have to be inserted into past log, by essentially random injection. either as a large, expanding chunk "there's 10 messages missing five screen pages ago"
9d88f33cdb62e629…f175d6df…2023-01-16 22:03:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 16:46:54 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: phf, for example getdata message has a speaker field, which is documented as 'do not use'. why isn't it cleaner if this field didn't exist in getdata message?
d52f9f6f96a70a55…9d86c7eb…2023-02-03 19:17:25 <asciilifeform> sure. you'll end up with over9000 linux isos etc if you do it, tho
7e8519b6f8010e4e…85594497…2023-02-13 19:19:03 <phf> i got the idea, i'm just clarifying that it's not "just timedelta" it's a time delta + packet delay
8badd1e2f8010e4e…f8010e4e…2023-02-13 19:19:03 <asciilifeform> for a msg coming from 'cold' peer, naturally will need the full window
e572a83fa30c687c…a30c687c…2022-11-18 21:51:18 asciilifeform not has 'new point'; only what described above
c5414e98abb3b413…abb3b413…2023-01-16 15:33:25 <phf> or smaller subchunks "there was 2 messages missing here" "there was 5 messages missing here", depending on how many messages got through to the unreliable station in the process
2640ff099d88f33c…9d88f33c…2023-01-16 22:03:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 09:46:06 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: in general proponent of mandatorily-present, fixed-length fields -- eliminates broad classes of exploitable bugs
8fd48011e572a83f…e572a83f…2022-11-18 21:51:32 asciilifeform also not knows 100% (even of the public) details of latest lul
02bde8ffc5414e98…4fc2c96d…2023-01-16 15:33:28 <asciilifeform> right; the station, having plugged itself back into the wall, emits a msg with selfchain pointing to the latest msg sent 'into unplugged cable'; peers getdata for it; and so on
056537802640ff09…db62e629…2023-01-16 22:02:44 <asciilifeform> the protocol is in fact ~less~ complex with fixed fields (that may be meaningful or not in given case, but their presence prohibits 'frame shifting')
cdc1783f2640ff09…6da67333…2023-01-16 22:06:00 <asciilifeform> i.e. eater eats from unexpected place, with exploitable effect
bda888dced6dde04…96a70a55…2023-02-03 19:18:07 <phf> that's probably not true, on account of y'all punting on the "essential" payload question
bc46c25b8fd48011…8fd48011…2022-11-18 21:52:08 <asciilifeform> phf: curious re 'extra details' if you've the sparecycles to summarize
fbcb022302bde8ff…02bde8ff…2023-01-16 15:34:17 <asciilifeform> aha, is possible that some got through, rather than 1 continuous interval of 'unplugged'
2a3307aa05653780…b6532ddb…2023-01-16 22:03:31 <cgra> asciilifeform, right. and if binary messages didn't exist, no such dummy fields didn't exist either.
272c151c05653780…05653780…2023-01-16 22:03:31 <asciilifeform> ^ could be debated, but imho not justifies 'reboot'
bdb813d2bda888dc…bda888dc…2023-02-03 19:18:52 <phf> if you're catching up with log, it's sensible then to have some kind of heuristic for automatic luby payload request, "give me all png/jpg/gif/pdf files that are less than 20mb" or whatever
0fc89af3bda888dc…ed6dde04…2023-02-03 19:18:53 asciilifeform not expects to find a satisfying mechanical answer to that q
d959ee04c9a6bd44…c9a6bd44…2023-02-13 19:22:56 <phf> l1 station will have to update hearsay timestamp, or else you're also tracking hypothetical drifts with hypothetical l>1
c045e9d4bc46c25b…081f5433…2022-11-18 21:52:57 <signpost> does look in this case that a much larger graft engine attached itself to "crypto", rather than some btc price suppression scheme.
e563db28fbcb0223…c5414e98…2023-01-16 15:34:32 <phf> because the unreliable station might be getting some packets, but not having any packets come out (was happening to me a couple of times, because internet)
aa7eed2e2a3307aa…272c151c…2023-01-16 22:03:43 <asciilifeform> bad enuff that the multipart msg format breaks back-compat.
03cdea99b2dcc130…b5c44b86…2023-01-16 22:14:50 <cgra> does 'frame shifting' explain why getdata format "timestamp:8,noise:64,speaker:32,wanthash:32:noise:292" is better than "timestamp:8,wanthash:32,noise:388" would be?
6d455d57bdb813d2…0fc89af3…2023-02-03 19:19:50 <asciilifeform> in practice, will prolly end up as e.g. 'gimme erry bin signpost offered up'
b9b1685bd959ee04…ed64ff76…2023-02-13 19:23:03 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's notion, would retain the full window for hearsays. which aint much of a problem , as bin msgs cannot be hearsayed
049fd7bdc045e9d4…c045e9d4…2022-11-18 21:53:47 <signpost> whatever animates the globohomo-aligned elites in the blue party.
b5c44b86aa7eed2e…2a3307aa…2023-01-16 22:04:48 <cgra> asciilifeform, frame shifting atm hebrew to me. how to grasp?
dd6b843403cdea99…03cdea99…2023-01-16 22:17:17 cgra to be clear, not saying either that this alone would warrant a reboot. now just trying to grasp apparent fundamentals he wasn't aware of
8e27467bb9b1685b…b9b1685b…2023-02-13 19:23:20 <asciilifeform> the reduced window contemplated for bin msgs strictly
5b28c451049fd7bd…bc46c25b…2022-11-18 21:54:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: seems logical that it would. imho a little surprising that it took as long as it did, but then again iirc participation of saecular 'hedge funds' etc. in shitcoinism was legalized in '17, and these folx work 'in geological time' (often enuff on ms-excel etc) so then.
1d7c252aa3c27b39…e563db28…2023-01-16 15:36:35 <phf> but then if it happens to multiple stations, you can have all kinds of chaotic behaviors
d03ab398dd6b8434…dd6b8434…2023-01-16 22:47:42 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020590 << phf, in arguing that hashing here (pieces of preamble) and there (all message fields) was cleaner than just hashing there, i conflated "cleaner spec" and "cleaner impl". cleaner impl in the sense that can trust command of a msg being of same origin the msg contents are.
e3002b77f2689fe8…f2689fe8…2023-02-03 19:20:54 <phf> but for example whatever my client can display inline (images, video, audio), i'd want to fetch as soon as it's available
3792200d8e27467b…8e27467b…2023-02-13 19:23:34 <asciilifeform> (they're what threatens to bloat filter to multi-GB)
15cc702d5b28c451…049fd7bd…2022-11-18 21:55:25 <signpost> those, but also the clinton-foundation type schemes
74cf52921d7c252a…1d7c252a…2023-01-16 15:38:44 <phf> for example you can have two parallel chains A and B (two stations "talking to themselves"), but the chains actually got observed by a third station which was also talking to itself C. because there's nothing connecting A and B you will place them arbitrarily, depending on who you ,ufkGWB cM^!JF|
6da67333c0583c8f…c0583c8f…2023-01-16 22:05:28 <asciilifeform> i suppose the nearest commonly-used electronic equiv. is the 'nop sled'
084699dbd03ab398…2640ff09…2023-01-16 22:49:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 16:45:09 phf[deedbot|awt]: yeah, but you have to make a case for why the change makes it are cleaner, and so far, you're arguing from the opposite
dccea6a0e3002b77…6d455d57…2023-02-03 19:21:33 <asciilifeform> how to not turn 'hey l1, gimme luby of lolcat.jpg' into a guaranteed own-goal is genuinely open q (suppose yer l1 is 20 stations and they all have it, say) atm
ede3470d3792200d…d959ee04…2023-02-13 19:25:17 <phf> i think i'm going back to considering luby packets as a totally special thing, that will be explored once it's out
f48c203015cc702d…15cc702d…2022-11-18 21:55:47 <signpost> tax shelter plus "charity" that pumps reptile investments in w/e
4dc6084c74cf5292…74cf5292…2023-01-16 15:38:44 <phf> heard from first, but when C arrives it might say that your order of placement was actually incorrect ,ufkGWB cM^!JF|
344eb24e084699db…5e127e06…2023-01-17 00:19:26 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020613 << something came up, so i had to run away, apologies; but i'd like to address this thread extensively, so i'll have to come back to it tomorrow
d97cb74ddccea6a0…dccea6a0…2023-02-03 19:22:36 <asciilifeform> sorta wai asciilifeform not convinced that it oughta default to 'hey l1...' but rather start with 1, and request others as-needed
9201f30eede3470d…ede3470d…2023-02-13 19:25:52 <phf> the crack fumes from pg county might be drifting too close to your house!
ef6d42ccf48c2030…f48c2030…2022-11-18 21:56:08 <signpost> iirc SBF was second highest donor to the democrats after soros this year
0572c0764dc6084c…a3c27b39…2023-01-16 15:40:50 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform suspects that 'erryone agrees on canonical order' is impossible.
22400a50344eb24e…084699db…2023-01-17 00:20:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 17:49:05 cgra[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020590 << phf, in arguing that hashing here (pieces of preamble) and there (all message fields) was cleaner than just hashing there, i conflated "cleaner spec" and "cleaner impl". cleaner impl in the sense that can trust command of a msg
b940d89dd97cb74d…e3002b77…2023-02-03 19:22:45 <phf> but isn't that the mechanical beauty of luby. you get 20 streams, you get the result 20x faster :>
98e34607d97cb74d…d97cb74d…2023-02-03 19:23:39 <asciilifeform> elementarily, if you're on e.g. 1g/s pipe, you dun win anyffin from having 20 1g/s pipes spewing at you at line rate simult.
6e5ce5c89201f30e…3792200d…2023-02-13 19:26:07 <asciilifeform> ~all we know about'em so far is that they'll be in the bin msg class, which suffices to discuss q of timestamps
7e2272b5ef6d42cc…ef6d42cc…2022-11-18 22:00:03 <signpost> and christ can I not stand that infantilized sniveling voice these all have.
1f3681ec0572c076…4dc6084c…2023-01-16 15:41:55 <phf> that is true, but the point is more that any moment anyone can chime in with "this there arbitrary order is actually fixed, because i saw it happen", at which point you have to rearrange your own log
26ed581622400a50…344eb24e…2023-01-17 00:22:48 <phf> (as in irl intervened so fast i didn't even have time to "afk", just as i was in the middle of writing things)
03604d09b940d89d…b940d89d…2023-02-03 19:23:24 <phf> n stations sending same luby stream is part of the same probability space
d503c57998e34607…03604d09…2023-02-03 19:24:19 <phf> right, but the requirement that you should be able to negotiate pipe rate was heavily discussed because there are other reasons
c67ae84298e34607…98e34607…2023-02-03 19:24:43 <asciilifeform> if yer isp is typical konsoomer sack of sad, may even trigger a ddos sensor somewhere and getcha dropped a la pizarro and you'll be picking up phone to complain 'to central laundry'
172a1f8e1f3681ec…0572c076…2023-01-16 15:42:31 <asciilifeform> why wouldja 'have to' rearrange own log ?
d3a33e8326ed5816…b2dcc130…2023-01-17 00:54:47 <asciilifeform> cgra: there's anuther (entirely aside from above) 'seekrit' explanation -- asciilifeform was attempting to design pest proto for, among other things, clean fpgaization
b27d4a62d503c579…d503c579…2023-02-03 19:24:40 <phf> don't want to get a single line rate stream from a 1 20g/s pipe either
3ec23deea890ba7a…9201f30e…2023-02-13 19:26:39 <phf> there are other potentially unpleasant replay packets, like addresscast
7f5187c3a890ba7a…a890ba7a…2023-02-13 19:26:54 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform not convinced that this, rather than phf's earlier proposed algo ('find fast way to detect replayed luby that not relies on timestamp') is the correct pill
648015bd65e1ce8d…1ba0eeed…2022-11-18 22:06:58 <phf> asciilifeform, i've not tried assembling a definitive guide to all the ftx lulz, but i'll maybe go back over the posts i read or if something new comes up
db1877a5172a1f8e…1f3681ec…2023-01-16 15:43:44 <phf> well, if you're trying to retain the guarantee that packets are "sorted" in the dependency of netchain
e7fb9f71d3a33e83…d3a33e83…2023-01-17 00:55:19 <asciilifeform> ... where a field that is or isn't used is simply set of 'wires', whereas if you allow a 'thing to be in different places' you gotta mux
8a4a4f8a9c0c01c2…9c0c01c2…2023-02-03 19:28:26 <phf> kek, internet went down so a handful of messages didn't go out. on reconnect i asked it to bump http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-bump.png
9db3720e648015bd…648015bd…2022-11-18 22:08:09 <phf> here's for example a fact check, if you read it through kremnilogy lense, full of interesting information, https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ftx-ukraine-democrats-laundering-996663874380
1e62b886db1877a5…172a1f8e…2023-01-16 15:46:20 <asciilifeform> likely the best that can be done is to stow 'obvious' (e.g. fills in existing brokenheart, with 1 packet or linear chain thereof) getdata replies in the obvious place, whereas all else is displayed in chrono order (with clickable arrows to nominal predecessors)
700f940ce7fb9f71…e7fb9f71…2023-01-17 00:56:25 <asciilifeform> throwing speaker/nethash/chainhash outta binary packets was a concession to bw conservation (these, presumably, nao would need separate logic path on fpga...)
afcf21fae7fb9f71…d03ab398…2023-01-17 07:00:34 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020615 << np and ty
689c4a098a4a4f8a…c67ae842…2023-02-03 19:28:45 <asciilifeform> lol until saturated line (supposing you even want the thing badly enuff that you dun mind saturating)
b952129b0dec8cce…6b5f2995…2023-02-13 19:27:28 <asciilifeform> phf: they'd get the full window (and not eat over9000 ram)
f49dbe999db3720e…9db3720e…2022-11-18 22:08:52 <phf> brought to you by https://twitter.com/karenaphan and https://twitter.com/AliSwenson
b80b17d21e62b886…1e62b886…2023-01-16 15:48:06 <asciilifeform> but yes, stations with poor connectivity will often end up emitting chains of msgs which appear as clusters of 'replies' where was not intended
ae0b5785700f940c…700f940c…2023-01-17 01:00:24 <asciilifeform> call it megalomania if want, but asciilifeform would like to have at some pt nics, routers, radios, etc. that natively speak pest 'at line rate' with 0 cpu utilization.
27060713afcf21fa…f25311cc…2023-01-17 07:01:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 19:20:38 phf[deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020613 << something came up, so i had to run away, apologies; but i'd like to address this thread extensively, so i'll have to come back to it tomorrow
f4965ad0689c4a09…8a4a4f8a…2023-02-03 19:29:28 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah but you ask n peers for maxrate/n luby streams
0b825973689c4a09…689c4a09…2023-02-03 19:29:42 <asciilifeform> phf's station seems to be pioneering testbed for 'can operate on poor-quality net pipe' design goal
d52b9514b952129b…b952129b…2023-02-13 19:28:11 <asciilifeform> but in general asciilifeform would prefer the algo with fewest moving parts, ideally would treat all msg timestamps rather than exempting some types from staleness entirely
b35612faf49dbe99…f49dbe99…2022-11-18 22:12:40 <phf> apropos http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-18#1016629
b3c836f9b80b17d2…b80b17d2…2023-01-16 15:48:23 <asciilifeform> nfi what a hypothetical pill against this would look like tho.
3448aac5ae0b5785…ae0b5785…2023-01-17 01:05:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020613 << recall that cmd and version are covered by the seal and thereby just as authenticable to $peer as the rest of packet
0544687b27060713…afcf21fa…2023-01-17 07:05:37 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020619 << makes sense (to a limit, my deeper fpga/electronics understanding on an n-year todo list)
46ccd870f4965ad0…0b825973…2023-02-03 19:30:30 <asciilifeform> phf: right, can do this if you know for fact that the folx yer asking in fact all have lolcat.jpg
bf2aac97d52b9514…0dec8cce…2023-02-13 19:29:03 <phf> see i want a mechanism that doesn't involved message timestamps at all :)
fe4c4d09b35612fa…85b30bce…2022-11-18 22:13:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-18 17:01:05 signpost: and christ can I not stand that infantilized sniveling voice these all have.
db47e505b3c836f9…db1877a5…2023-01-16 15:57:08 <phf> see, i thought that some kind of heuristic insert is basically a requirement. probably you're correct and in a strongly connected pest network these issues won't manifest
f25311cc3448aac5…22400a50…2023-01-17 01:06:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 17:49:05 cgra[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020590 << phf, in arguing that hashing here (pieces of preamble) and there (all message fields) was cleaner than just hashing there, i conflated "cleaner spec" and "cleaner impl". cleaner impl in the sense that can trust command of a msg
7d6721b80544687b…27060713…2023-01-17 07:06:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 19:56:31 asciilifeform[4]: ... where a field that is or isn't used is simply set of 'wires', whereas if you allow a 'thing to be in different places' you gotta mux
241f27b446ccd870…f4965ad0…2023-02-03 19:30:31 <phf> it's entirely roaming too. like i just close the laptop and open it at cafe, it self recovers (by spewing ignore packets to everyone, once it can)
607e6522bf2aac97…d52b9514…2023-02-13 19:29:22 asciilifeform currently thinking 'narrow window where obviously possible'
5125fe04db47e505…db47e505…2023-01-16 15:58:21 <phf> a public log on account of being batch can always just reorder the whole graph arbitrarily no matter how much it costs
be7863e8f25311cc…3448aac5…2023-01-17 01:05:45 <asciilifeform> the only thing they aint covered by is msg hash (and still not obvious to asciilifeform what'd be gained by doing so)
8d9d2b4d7d6721b8…0544687b…2023-01-17 07:09:26 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020626 << ah ok, i prolly will keep misunderstanding things similarly, until complete spec digestion...
5dfcd8eb241f27b4…46ccd870…2023-02-03 19:30:39 <asciilifeform> (and that all have cycles to spare, and will send, etc)
263a9a0506e1bf32…06e1bf32…2022-11-18 22:33:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: this is where asciilifeform admits that he in fact never heard voice tape of buterin et al. (somehow -- avoided) -- so not knows.
69e79e0e5125fe04…5125fe04…2023-01-16 16:00:48 <phf> but in a realtime setting with a homegenous network, i think some amount of cleverness as to where you insert the packet on arrival will make the conversation smoother. but maybe that's not even a reasonable approach, because we want time "new" messages to always be at the bottom, unless they are getdata
0b60d1d1be7863e8…be7863e8…2023-01-17 01:07:18 <asciilifeform> ... is why left'em out of msg hash to begin with (... not because drunk)
b9b2c5468d9d2b4d…7d6721b8…2023-01-17 07:10:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 20:09:46 asciilifeform[5]: version in particular not belongs in msg hash any more than bounce does. ( is intented to be version of the pestron sending the msg in all cases. rather than descriptive of the particular msg per se )
85cee0015dfcd8eb…241f27b4…2023-02-03 19:31:21 <phf> asciilifeform, so you have to have a provision to renegotiate. in fact "send lolcat at 10" followed by "send lolcat at 100" should produce correct rate adjustment result
6b6aafc65dfcd8eb…5dfcd8eb…2023-02-03 19:31:26 <asciilifeform> phf: is precisely how is supposed to work (still need the 'hammer' thing, for nat, tho)
75015f86b5f97f2e…bf2aac97…2023-02-13 19:30:19 <phf> in fact it's unlikely that i'll ever implement the 15 minute window, i'll just make my hash lookup really really really fast
57e613b869e79e0e…b3c836f9…2023-01-16 16:03:09 <asciilifeform> phf: ^ this was asciilifeform's notion -- 'always at bottom if new', and ui lets you walk the netchain; rather than 'threaded display' a la heathen chats (e.g 'slack') where indeed can sit & scratch yer head re 'in what order to display'
9f0162d80b60d1d1…0b60d1d1…2023-01-17 01:08:33 <asciilifeform> version in particular not belongs in msg hash any more than bounce does. ( is intented to be version of the pestron sending the msg in all cases. rather than descriptive of the particular msg per se )
1a39ddd8b9b2c546…8d9d2b4d…2023-01-17 07:28:18 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020622 << i meant in hearsay context. a command in messages from my l2+ may have changed in hands of my l1. ... actually, may not be any different from hearsay being completely suspect anyway, and wouldn't matter if command hashed or not
f1292dfe85cee001…6b6aafc6…2023-02-03 19:31:58 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's notion is that one would request subhashes, e.g. 1MB at a time
55ccda0e75015f86…b5f97f2e…2023-02-13 19:30:57 <asciilifeform> if you've fast enuff ssd, could even work at line rate, conceivably
40db85e0af24615e…65e1ce8d…2022-11-18 22:34:36 <signpost> lispy mommy's autistic sweetie thing. not worth confirming.
1d1bfd26af24615e…af24615e…2022-11-18 22:34:37 asciilifeform vaguely recalls seeing a photo, tho, where iirc he had gorbachev-style wart or sumsuch
698cdfba57e613b8…69e79e0e…2023-01-16 16:04:36 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020554 << well, at the baseline, if you make a graph of netchain/selfchain dependencies and then flatten it with topological sort, whatever subset of packets you have it will give you a correct global order
076d5af29f0162d8…9f0162d8…2023-01-17 01:09:04 <asciilifeform> i.e. it will be of current pestron, even when relaying an old msg originally received and logged to disk by an older one
853ae25e1a39ddd8…b9b2c546…2023-01-17 07:29:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 20:06:37 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-16#1020613 << recall that cmd and version are covered by the seal and thereby just as authenticable to $peer as the rest of packet
abbc127df1292dfe…f1292dfe…2023-02-03 19:32:17 <asciilifeform> (if payload smaller than MB, there are no subs)
0456973340db85e0…1d1bfd26…2022-11-18 22:35:32 <asciilifeform> ( if only all servants of evil were conveniently marked with wart... as locklin et al seem to imagine )
4253ec64698cdfba…81905ef2…2023-01-16 16:05:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-16 10:49:42 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: nfi what a hypothetical pill against this would look like tho.
22a3ffa7076d5af2…076d5af2…2023-01-17 01:09:40 <asciilifeform> and this is proper, because it is there to tell counterparty what kind of msgs the sender knows how to eat.
ff371954853ae25e…1a39ddd8…2023-01-17 11:28:22 <cgra> ...or more like, a peer can send us anything anyway, cmd hashing won't help
2dbcaefe8624dc52…abbc127d…2023-02-03 19:32:37 <asciilifeform> phf: balance between synchronicity and 'don't throw 1TB at me asynchronously plox'
cce78f6bd0a53d04…d0a53d04…2023-02-13 19:33:19 <asciilifeform> thing is, only chained msgs, per spec, actually get to live on disk
d9b2711304569733…40db85e0…2022-11-18 22:35:34 signpost heard that affectation constantly when visting mordor, CA for work
a1a6b3134253ec64…57e613b8…2023-01-16 16:05:05 <asciilifeform> the q of 'how to display recently filled holes' will need to be answered ('unread' marks on msgs?) but needs empirical massage to see what actually is most edible for people
fc61068d22a3ffa7…22a3ffa7…2023-01-17 01:10:33 <asciilifeform> ( and ditto when relaying a broadcast received from peer running older version of protocol )
915973162dbcaefe…2dbcaefe…2023-02-03 19:33:03 <asciilifeform> i.e. avoid the fairy tale magick pot that endlessly spews porridge and drowns the world
65dcc635cce78f6b…cce78f6b…2023-02-13 19:33:27 <asciilifeform> errything else only lives in filter (until expires)
a0e562e4a1a6b313…698cdfba…2023-01-16 16:06:14 <phf> so in the most degenerate casey you could maintain a graph of your packets, new packets do a graph insert, and your render does a topological sort with a full rerender on each new packet :>
a85c17e24d29a518…4d29a518…2023-01-17 17:29:48 <asciilifeform> ACTION mentioned this before, but a key principle of pestronics as he sees it is that a peer ~can~ send arbitrary nonsense, but 1) this oughta minimally affect station operation with respect to other peers 2) it must always be possible to easily determine ~which~ peer is misbehaving (following which, ask him wtf, and if n
5803853a91597316…8624dc52…2023-02-03 19:33:20 <phf> my understanding is the whole point of fountain code is that you can ask bunch of random places to start sending you stuff, and with a high probability you're going to full your block holes in a reasonable amount of time
87b77d8b91597316…91597316…2023-02-03 19:33:22 <asciilifeform> limiting subchunk to e.g. MB lets ya say 'pot, stop'
96b573d565dcc635…65dcc635…2023-02-13 19:33:53 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform thought , is that phf devised a way to enforce 'no message is valid if seen a second time' dictum ~without timestamps~ entirely
dff7045f06364ce0…06364ce0…2022-11-18 22:37:16 <asciilifeform> ( coupla times nearly had to , but each time avoided )
bf008480a0e562e4…a0e562e4…2023-01-16 16:07:08 <phf> that'll give you an absolutely correct "answer follows question" ordering
ca0601fc5803853a…87b77d8b…2023-02-03 19:34:18 <asciilifeform> right, but imho not unreasonable to require that the process stops after certain # of blox, unless requested again
0961dcf587b77d8b…51e993cf…2023-02-03 19:33:26 <cgra> what's wrong with 1MB of check blocks per 'luby getdata'?
451e58d3dff7045f…d9b27113…2022-11-18 22:47:42 <signpost> I mostly stayed in the corporate space stations
f0637be9bf008480…a1a6b313…2023-01-16 16:07:36 asciilifeform considered this, tho with a 'window' of e.g. 'last month' to keep cost in reasonable bound
02e9cc9737803ca5…37803ca5…2023-01-17 17:32:42 <asciilifeform> this aint strictly about protocol-level misbehaviour, either, but extends to 'bob problem'(tm) & similar issues with hearsay
801d6c17ca0601fc…ca0601fc…2023-02-03 19:35:21 <asciilifeform> otherwise yer in a position where e.g. asciilifeform asks for lolcat.jpg, then loses net connection and never says 'enuff', and nao yer sending 4evah (or until some rather large timeout)
a5876c68d240dc7d…d240dc7d…2023-02-13 19:34:59 <asciilifeform> (timestamp is in the validity criteria strictly to limit the mass of hashes that have to be stuffed into filter, if not obv)
b50624f6f0637be9…f0637be9…2023-01-16 16:08:41 asciilifeform not has any notion that he currently knows 'final solution to how to best display pest log', expects to try a # of approaches
388dbee802e9cc97…02e9cc97…2023-01-17 17:35:13 <asciilifeform> e.g. if asciilifeform peers with bob who peers with charlie who connected rng to his terminal and floods the net, it aint unreasonable for asciilifeform's peers to ask him to have stern talking-to with bob, and if not helps, unpeer
5f5d1545a5876c68…75015f86…2023-02-13 19:35:37 <phf> google tryna stay relevant http://glyf.org/screenshots/goog.png http://glyf.org/screenshots/goog2.png
7a645c44a5876c68…a5876c68…2023-02-13 19:35:44 <asciilifeform> if erryone had 'infinite' ram (and somehow with o(1) -- parallel? -- lookup) -- would not need any such thing..
ebe917f97af959c8…dff7045f…2022-11-18 22:49:01 <asciilifeform> signpost: hm, thought that precisely 'space stations' is where the kunstkammer folx concentrate ?
3342778ab50624f6…bf008480…2023-01-16 16:09:34 <phf> and on the other end of this design space you have "insert all packets to end as they arrive, getdata or not"
5671cbb2388dbee8…388dbee8…2023-01-17 17:36:32 <asciilifeform> ( and in the meantime 'we're setting PCUT of 0 on you until you get the flooder outta yer l2' )
f329cd6e5f90f573…801d6c17…2023-02-03 19:36:42 asciilifeform not knows ideal cutoff, but does not think it oughta be much larger than 1MB
8b52db795f5d1545…7a645c44…2023-02-13 19:36:30 <asciilifeform> lol wtf is happening to the window in that screenshit ??
9967e653ebe917f9…7af959c8…2022-11-18 22:49:40 <signpost> yep, just commenting on the limited extent of my CA tour
daa88dc13342778a…b50624f6…2023-01-16 16:09:39 <asciilifeform> for that matter, atm still fighting the gui lib rather than even touched subj
e979d3035671cbb2…5671cbb2…2023-01-18 00:39:05 <phf> signpost, did you ever release your online codes python version?
1e2c3163f329cd6e…f329cd6e…2023-02-03 19:37:44 <asciilifeform> the point of making exception from 'want a packet? send 1 packet' is to economize outgoing bw. but ought not to be at the cost of potentially drowning yerself errytime
32a10e1b9967e653…ebe917f9…2022-11-18 22:50:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: wat was disgusting on the street ?
d076cfc0daa88dc1…4253ec64…2023-01-16 16:10:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 23:04:17 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: meanwhile, lulzily, found that the wx widget most suited to displaying log lines is atrociously slow on gtk/linux (blazing fast on crapple, for all the good that does asciilifeform) so will have
b0d4a1bf1e2c3163…1e2c3163…2023-02-03 19:38:25 <asciilifeform> (as well as wasting over9000 of errybody's outgoing bw by having'em piss at you over9000 moar packets than actually need)
998dc4bd32a10e1b…9967e653…2022-11-18 22:50:14 <signpost> they were full of the whiners, but preferable to meth-zombie apocalypse
fc4b75dfd076cfc0…daa88dc1…2023-01-16 16:10:07 <asciilifeform> phf: on disk, they go precisely 'as they arrive'
5fcdcb1fb0d4a1bf…b0d4a1bf…2023-02-03 19:39:58 <asciilifeform> another angle to think of it from, is that the total avail. bw to all the participants in a net is a finite resource, and ought not be burned carelessly
f0b2d78b998dc4bd…32a10e1b…2022-11-18 22:50:54 <asciilifeform> aa, hobos ? they're errywhere where no winter. ( visit e.g. montevideo , battallion of hobos per 10 or so blocks )
477ae9395fcdcb1f…32ec7183…2023-02-03 19:40:05 <phf> i think some kind of hard limit on luby stream makes sense, so like getme lolcat 10, will send you a 1mb of lolcat blocks at 10b/s or whatever. if that was not enough you can ask again and again etc.
fac9599e1558cecc…e521b453…2023-02-13 19:39:30 <asciilifeform> phf: bloom is potentially exactly what's needed. ( asciilifeform not up to date on subj, will refresh )
9f64d7b7dc261fc4…dc261fc4…2023-01-16 16:11:21 asciilifeform threw in the towel for nao re custom db, and baking in, for the time being, sqlite, as awt did
9ee4ef10fac9599e…1558cecc…2023-02-13 19:40:39 <phf> i think bloom is inside out, can say "possibly not in set" and "definitely not in set"
ce9c85cffac9599e…fac9599e…2023-02-13 19:40:48 asciilifeform associates bloom filter with a braindamaged implementation in ye olde prb, but this aint bloom's fault, seems to be precisely what oughta have in a fast pestron
dca04af8554fa054…554fa054…2022-11-18 22:52:18 <signpost> de-facto legalization of e.g. fentanyl produces special creatures
58d223179f64d7b7…9f64d7b7…2023-01-16 16:11:58 <asciilifeform> so long as you can pull out arbitrary msg by hash in o(~log n), can live
df3f34016d2c8454…477ae939…2023-02-03 19:41:18 <phf> but the idea of "gimme a specific chunk but with luby" ought to be tested against the inherent properties of luby
a8beaa49ce9c85cf…9ee4ef10…2023-02-13 19:41:17 <phf> but yeah, bloom is what they put in routers and such for when need to guard bajilion something with "should i even check"
ebcc2f1edca04af8…f0b2d78b…2022-11-18 22:53:05 <asciilifeform> hm, thought fentanyl is how reich pest-controls (closes eyes on cheap import from cn, then powder mixed into traditional dopes for a quick kill)
36c4179858d22317…a8348e6a…2023-02-18 03:30:10 <crtdaydreams> bizzare behaviour considering peered with awt, signpost et jonsykkel
6d4ac820df3f3401…6d2c8454…2023-02-03 19:41:49 asciilifeform still suspects that best heuristic is '1 peer may not ever account for > 1/n bw (where n is # of peers) except by explicit permission of station operator'
fb8e4860ebcc2f1e…ebcc2f1e…2022-11-18 22:54:12 <asciilifeform> 'this pill was cheap but defo Does Sumthing!' , next day eats 2, drops
61f2c40657813a08…58d22317…2023-01-16 17:16:02 <asciilifeform> at some pt, will likely end up with sumthing like this for msg store
b931c2ed36c41798…607e9281…2023-02-18 03:30:25 asciilifeform in a nat and to this day not found how to get port fwd reliably
26610afdfb8e4860…dca04af8…2022-11-18 22:54:33 <signpost> nah, a lot of them linger, shit-covered, for a while
c62583d061f2c406…61f2c406…2023-01-16 17:17:51 <asciilifeform> but is even possible that storing parsed (i.e. with indices of antecedents, rather than hashes) representation a la nqb is over9000 faster (and can still pull out original msg by index)
eb98790cb931c2ed…b931c2ed…2023-02-18 03:30:35 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: let's try from other end? wat's yours
3824c484a2272540…fd157a49…2023-02-03 19:42:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 13:43:03 asciilifeform: ... and many of these details, imho, can only be nailed down empirically.
ad61c7f5a2272540…5f90f573…2023-02-03 19:45:52 <cgra> why specific chunks again? to review partial data before full 60GB bluray image complete?
b189ca02c62583d0…c62583d0…2023-01-16 17:18:57 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. if you know that given hash H points to msg # N on disk, store N instead of H, and store H 'next to' msg (or in brokenheart, if not have the msg) )
2f18ff0ead61c7f5…a2272540…2023-02-03 19:46:28 <asciilifeform> cgra: you get a tree of subhashes, and then know when you've actually received given portions of the payload
637c7110a7021f82…cb36d75c…2023-02-13 19:42:18 <signpost> "I'm just a widdle harmless code monkey; isn't Engineering Fun?"
3dd4139563a8cd4f…fb8e4860…2022-11-18 22:55:51 <asciilifeform> well none of it was ever properly 'shoot on sight' illegal a la cn. rather was 'only approved cartels may supply'
02e37e8ab189ca02…b189ca02…2023-01-16 17:20:54 <asciilifeform> ( to rephrase -- no doubt that faster, but may be fast enuff that no particular reason to use hand-sewn db rather than sqlite )
34d4dd192f18ff0e…2f18ff0e…2023-02-03 19:46:51 <asciilifeform> if e.g. some peer is sending you rubbish, you know about it sooner
396797c0637c7110…4f8c4637…2023-02-13 19:42:30 <phf> asciilifeform, i recon originally reference to a stereotypical disney bird, mocked in "who framed roger rabbit"
d5d23dc23dd41395…3dd41395…2022-11-18 22:57:34 <asciilifeform> ( not even speaking of sbf et al, whose dope comes straight from factory, synthesis-grade 'five nines' etc )
e454cd5a34d4dd19…34d4dd19…2023-02-03 19:47:15 <asciilifeform> ( afaik none of the currently-known lubyistic encodings are at all resistant to rubbish )
5324f719d5d23dc2…d5d23dc2…2022-11-18 23:02:13 <asciilifeform> situation in reich re dope reminiscent somewhat of '1984', where lumpens & 'inner party' are similarly free to do whatever they like, only the workhorse 'middle' is actually under panopticon
7b7f659a2e958e0b…396797c0…2023-02-13 19:43:10 <phf> it's a tiny adorable over the top cartoon bird that goes "twee twee twee". and it has all the most adorable manerisms, and it's so sacharine that you want to shoot the damn creature
e2cc9bb25324f719…5324f719…2022-11-18 23:02:54 <asciilifeform> ( ditto e.g. tax in reich, and in most other respects -- similar )
3f5ef9402ea39c29…e454cd5a…2023-02-03 19:48:03 <asciilifeform> if sumbody's 'poisoning' yer warez, you want to find out asap.
9867a0b57b7f659a…637c7110…2023-02-13 19:43:47 signpost has a brief flashback to hatespeech training in same tone
3dc5035de2cc9bb2…63a8cd4f…2022-11-18 23:02:59 <signpost> yup, it wouldn't surprise me to see drug permissivity passed at the federal level in time
964ae2113f5ef940…df3f3401…2023-02-03 19:48:25 <phf> asciilifeform, but you can do that using crc sum on a block, rather than a whole new subrange mechanism
6403bf769867a0b5…4351a3fd…2023-02-13 19:44:36 asciilifeform recalls 'terrorism training'. 'a grenade falls through yer office window. what position should you take' etc
3a4d25a93dc5035d…e2cc9bb2…2022-11-18 23:04:08 <asciilifeform> 'permissibity' in the 'not illegal to walk around in stupor' (already , lol, not... ) rather than 'meth at the pharmacy counter' variety
297e6605964ae211…2ea39c29…2023-02-03 19:48:42 <cgra> asciilifeform, seems like most check block solving starts when like ~90% already received
5934cb026403bf76…6403bf76…2023-02-13 19:45:30 <asciilifeform> errybody in salt mine luvved these, they were a break from the monotony of the actual salt mining
9e5e8a383a4d25a9…3dc5035d…2022-11-18 23:04:55 <signpost> austin almost went the way of SF, but a ballot prop (re-)banned the street camping
cb4d575c297e6605…3f5ef940…2023-02-03 19:49:02 <asciilifeform> (how? let's say, if some chunk seems to never converge, you start excluding packets from various peers and see whether then converges)
a4d5c7465934cb02…5934cb02…2023-02-13 19:45:47 <asciilifeform> prolly is half of what drives the various idjit 'training quizes' etc
8e1781cf9e5e8a38…9e5e8a38…2022-11-18 23:05:11 <signpost> so temporary reprieve while the carnies multiply in the woods
b539a865858c21b5…cb4d575c…2023-02-03 19:50:13 <asciilifeform> phf: making the requestable unit of transmission a e.g. 1MB block with a known hash, is reasonably simple way to do it
74f48050a4d5c746…9867a0b5…2023-02-13 19:45:52 <signpost> sounds way more fun. anyway I wont derail you gents further.
b057c4878e1781cf…8e1781cf…2022-11-18 23:05:23 <signpost> I'm sure they'll spill back out of the woods in time
4e80e58db539a865…b539a865…2023-02-03 19:51:32 <asciilifeform> you request H. H is either a hash of entire payload (if <1MB) or a hash of H1+H2, which a cooperating peer will give you; H1 and H2 may in turn be hashes of H1_1, H1_2, H2_1, H2_2, and so forth
59e2da0074f48050…a4d5c746…2023-02-13 19:47:44 <asciilifeform> ( answer was 'lie down when machine gun firing through window, but crouch if grenade', theoretically frags form a 'hourglass' pattern. but lulzy if q is posed re 4 m^2 'office', 'fish in barrel' lol )
1ee27446b057c487…3a4d25a9…2022-11-18 23:05:25 asciilifeform recalls prohibition-era descriptions of 'speakeasies' where elite savoured the fact that their drinking dens not fulla dirty plebes
f4ae93c059e2da00…59e2da00…2023-02-13 19:48:08 asciilifeform prefers the ww1 answer : 'what do you do if a shell lands in yer trench?' 'jump up 20m and scatter yourself around'
f44629891ee27446…1ee27446…2022-11-18 23:06:03 <asciilifeform> (after prohibition kaput, they switched to 'aristocratizing' e.g. cocaine)
2400003d019187e4…964ae211…2023-02-03 19:51:53 <phf> you're trying to bolt a tradition chunk synchronization mechanism on top of a very different model, and there are ways to achieve what you're tyring to do, but in a more luby way
9533d8baf4ae93c0…7b7f659a…2023-02-13 19:50:03 <phf> signpost, yeah i but asciilifeform's mines are a lot more grownup than ours, he can't fully appreciate just how disgusting this bullshit is
9e8095c4f4462989…f4462989…2022-11-18 23:06:53 <asciilifeform> they were addressing the 'same coke' problem.
1c7de1cb9533d8ba…f4ae93c0…2023-02-13 19:50:24 <asciilifeform> this was possibly the most abjectly 'dilbertian' mine asciilifeform served in
6353b8c59e8095c4…aba03eac…2022-11-18 23:06:53 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-01-08 asciilifeform: 'warren buffett drinks the same coke as the street bum.'
914c642a1eb5b9f4…09754e28…2023-02-03 19:53:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 14:15:04 asciilifeform[5]: the other obv pill would be to require a handshake before firing off luby sequence
3fdcf9931c7de1cb…1c7de1cb…2023-02-13 19:50:43 <asciilifeform> after that, escaped, to 'house arrest'
db2774dd6353b8c5…9e8095c4…2022-11-18 23:08:08 <asciilifeform> ( or, if you like, can go back to 16th c, 'sumptuary laws'; desire of elite to jack up their sense of 'we not only have moar, but can deny to others for better contrast ratio' )
cb170a44914c642a…1eb5b9f4…2023-02-03 19:52:27 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: to do handshake, you gotta be able to both send ~and receive~ from $ip
9b67eaf93fdcf993…9533d8ba…2023-02-13 19:51:22 <phf> well, i finished one task and now it wants me to log in into my official google account
d99fc62edb2774dd…b057c487…2022-11-18 23:08:27 <signpost> subj of opium dens, orange man now promises to kill the dealers like duterte
72e0a6859b67eaf9…3fdcf993…2023-02-13 19:52:12 <asciilifeform> since then, the only lultraining encountered was, one time, 'prevention of money launderers'. was even moar hilarious than the 'terrorism'
d8ce24a3d99fc62e…db2774dd…2022-11-18 23:09:23 asciilifeform still has somewhere his prev. brochure of megapromises
9f64bcbccd246566…2400003d…2023-02-03 19:52:48 <phf> jonsykkel, "handshake" implicitly involves a shared secret
af06783272e0a685…72e0a685…2023-02-13 19:52:50 <asciilifeform> phf: you may already be a winner!111(tm)(r)(c)
6ce49b2cd8ce24a3…6353b8c5…2022-11-18 23:09:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-02 asciilifeform: recall that brochure where listed the ministries trump promised to close ?
3368c0356ce49b2c…b35612fa…2022-11-18 23:09:39 <phf> asciilifeform, sumptuary laws was also flowed as a theory for why "mask mandates for you, but not for zelenski"
d01253023ee4fcf1…9b67eaf9…2023-02-13 20:08:12 <phf> apparently it's a wellknown thing, i left feedback along the lines of "i ain't loging in and you suck". now i can tell people that i almost was a google developer.
c65c503fd0125302…3ee4fcf1…2023-02-14 03:38:43 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform recalls similarly lulzy 'employment olympiads' in 2010s. iirc there was even 1 conducted by nsa.
f681af4ec65c503f…c65c503f…2023-02-14 03:39:05 <asciilifeform> some of'em are somewhere in the old #t log.
fa4a70cdf681af4e…f681af4e…2023-02-14 03:40:47 asciilifeform at one pt found himself participating in one, 'reverse this 13337 fresh chinese trojan', while doing it realized that the perp co was likely farming out its workload to applicants, phree labour, lol
b1ffebb097bd2154…88b742cf…2022-11-18 23:12:35 <asciilifeform> signpost: not unlikely that he'll even be installed on throne again, if lives to the age where, like the current muppet, can barely read script
49d1ed04fa4a70cd…fa4a70cd…2023-02-14 03:42:05 <asciilifeform> in theory is possible to run entire biz that way, and someone, somewhere is doing it
1b9f4685b1ffebb0…6ce49b2c…2022-11-18 23:12:35 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-10-24 asciilifeform: 'At the 1980 Olympics, Brezhnev begins his speech. "O!"applause. "O!"an ovation. "O!!!"the whole audience stands up and applauds. An aide comes running to the podium and whispers, "Leonid Ilyich, those are the Olympic logo rings, you don't need to read all of them!"'
7b9a18d149d1ed04…49d1ed04…2023-02-14 03:42:26 <asciilifeform> 'they insist on working for phree, wainot let'em'
c2edbbbe1b9f4685…b1ffebb0…2022-11-18 23:13:10 <asciilifeform> de-facto job qual nao, like in ye olde politburo
8dc07a6a7b9a18d1…7b9a18d1…2023-02-14 03:47:23 <asciilifeform> ( the 'prize', ftr, is invariably an abject 'entry' jerb, the kind suitable for 19yo )
cb49039d8dc07a6a…1202ddec…2023-02-14 16:21:23 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022875 << I can try this, as well as perhaps for the case of a new peering adding a "window" in which to spam ac rather than simply spamming cold peers.
070c6af5eee3f9cf…c2edbbbe…2022-11-18 23:18:10 asciilifeform quite in favour of ~genuinely~ expanding access to dope for the terminally bored morons. errywhere asciilifeform lived for past 20y, there is ~always~ 2-3 blox away a demented retiree good for 3-4 hours of leaf blower /d
aaf589abcb49039d…3d402e4e…2023-02-14 16:22:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 21:50:08 phf[awt|deedbot]: this needs more thought, but at least "my ip is still the same, i'm not going to spam" is a solid change
dd8e99c2070c6af5…070c6af5…2022-11-18 23:18:30 <asciilifeform> he oughta be sitting in own juices, on dope, would be a++
f813ef79aaf589ab…8dc07a6a…2023-02-15 00:34:26 <asciilifeform> hmm, anybody else see kilometres of 'cold'/'warm' ? ( and nope, no signs of flaky net connectivity on asciilifeform's desk otherwise )
6b72b7ccf813ef79…cb49039d…2023-02-15 00:50:50 <awt> asciilifeform: not here. Different blatta version tho
4152edd34ba68295…eee3f9cf…2022-11-18 23:19:27 <signpost> the impatience on this guy. we give the world covid, we give it mrna shots, give us time!
9f1fa9186b72b7cc…f813ef79…2023-02-15 00:52:12 <asciilifeform> awt: was wondering whether 'net weather' or somehow flood of getaddrs (or whatever odd bug in sumbody's experimental pestron.) sadly not have log verbosity set to max on this box, so currently nfi
30fea8cb9f1fa918…e3bbb867…2023-02-15 07:29:03 <cgra> just realized sqlite appears to support foreign key constraints. unaware of any serious downsides, i intend to employ them in a blatta patch. perceived upsides being 1) better self-documenting code, 2) less chance of bug-trashed db, 3) increased bug visibility
6ce1102e67c66545…67c66545…2023-02-15 17:54:44 signpost doesn't know how often sqlite is compiled with that support enabled.
e115b1486ce1102e…6ce1102e…2023-02-15 17:56:47 <signpost> probably would've prevented that key duplication b00g
70cd1402e115b148…30fea8cb…2023-02-15 17:57:07 <cgra> signpost, yea, got on todo-list to see whether can runtime-check somehow if compiled with fk constraint support, and warn user if not
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7c4a5a665a1cec73bdd157968ca86e9ba5abd50a84fc673c9c75976b362d3cf9) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
5f1d9527a9476e2d…a9476e2d…2022-03-13 19:23:01 <asciilifeform> granted this wouldn't handle problem for those not in peer list
097095849ed3be40…9ed3be40…2022-03-13 22:14:13 <awt> noticed a bug with current blatta presence reporting
a88d3a7909709584…09709584…2022-03-13 22:14:45 <awt> if you disconnect and reconnect to your local blatta station, won't get the /join notifications. will fix.
12aa7a5ca88d3a79…ba867ee9…2022-03-13 22:31:11 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-13#1004668 <<< aha this explains what I was experiencing yesterday. (though to be fair znc prolly didn't help)
60b3b86e12aa7a5c…f27e1451…2022-03-13 22:31:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-13 22:14:14 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: if you disconnect and reconnect to your local blatta station, won't get the /join notifications. will fix.
619f02a760b3b86e…a88d3a79…2022-03-14 04:36:06 <awt> Fun fact: my airbnb host in El Salvador is Taiwanese
ba8d16a104ed6c32…619f02a7…2022-03-14 15:20:47 <awt> billymg: not there yet. Was just chatting with her on the app.
550cc6d49b4f5c73…ba8d16a1…2022-03-14 15:23:21 <awt> Says her neighbor can rent me a car. We'll see how that goes lol!
1a6b42d324077af4…9569b748…2022-03-14 16:30:26 <PeterL> so I was thinking about how to have a bot that allows private messages, anybody who wants to intereact with the bot via pm would have to have a key set up with the bot?
fa4968ed1a6b42d3…550cc6d4…2022-03-14 16:44:50 <awt> PeterL: afaik yes. unless the bot could accept gpggrams.
44cd4259fa4968ed…1a6b42d3…2022-03-14 17:28:35 <PeterL> what would be the easiest way to add keys to the station for a bot?
4610a02d44cd4259…fa4968ed…2022-03-14 17:43:14 <awt> start up the station with configs specified as in the test script
7049e8d54610a02d…44cd4259…2022-03-14 17:38:39 <PeterL> I mean, once the station is running, and somebody says 'cool bot, can I use it too?', how do I add their key to the bot? I guess I could give it a command to add in a key?
83d5eee1e59e300d…e59e300d…2022-03-14 18:06:33 <awt> although you'd wanna make sure you're the only one that could execute that command
ec054fb883d5eee1…5935a070…2022-03-14 18:05:32 <signpost> http://trinque.org/src/logbot-otp/patches/genesis.vpatch << here's how I did this for deedbot
08b3e9e9ec054fb8…ec054fb8…2022-03-14 18:06:23 <signpost> would enqueue the command and args in a db, issue a random otp
ed7b28ad08b3e9e9…08b3e9e9…2022-03-14 18:06:36 <signpost> then run the command when the correct otp was returned via !!v
47d143eced7b28ad…7049e8d5…2022-03-14 18:02:03 <PeterL> ok, I'll read through that, seems pretty secure
3fa86d1847d143ec…ed7b28ad…2022-03-14 18:11:24 <signpost> the deps can be found further up in that directory tree, can find 'em at trinque.org/src
d0709b1f3fa86d18…3fa86d18…2022-03-14 18:11:43 <signpost> users prove their control of the gpg key by being able to decrypt the encrypted otp and supply back
f2eaedabd0709b1f…47d143ec…2022-03-14 21:38:11 <PeterL> awt: is it a security concern to have your bot just echo anything - could somebody use that function to make it add themself as a peer?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 0c64c6bc22874080f40da7e763c5aca836efb64219ae0f7bf152190e542e2a5d) prior to <busybot> ---
0130512c0c64c6bc…38100675…2022-03-15 11:12:35 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 2 days 18 hours 4 minutes and 31 seconds
d0dfd7de0130512c…020cb516…2022-03-15 16:22:59 <awt> irssi users: how you display a nicklist frame/window?
43a9e79dd0dfd7de…d0dfd7de…2022-03-15 16:23:31 <awt> googling indicates you need to use some kind of perl script
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 424211a379ac3bd0188881fc59d701d5c7c74e0f548120d79075b1fddf59c991) prior to <billymg> ---
10f1219d424211a3…424211a3…2022-03-15 17:42:30 <billymg> possibly because so many were sent out at nearly the same time
89a88f7d10f1219d…10f1219d…2022-03-15 17:44:17 <billymg> shinohai: dunno why i didn't catch that earlier, i guess i enjoy seeing the btc price so much that it didn't bother me that it wasn't muted
b2ec89787961e664…499115aa…2022-03-15 17:44:51 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 39m ago; last restart: 39m ago
57b682e1fd3eb564…60b3b86e…2022-03-15 17:51:54 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 2d 18h 52m
d82421ac57b682e1…fd3eb564…2022-03-15 17:55:34 <billymg> these botworks reminded me of my alma mater's unofficial anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvArQjKr488
23782ae18293379a…8293379a…2022-03-15 22:06:08 <mod6> Oddly though, seems like the --log-level flag has been removed ; may want to look at the example commands in 'start_test_net.sh' script that still refer to the flag.
07c05222929dd903…929dd903…2022-03-15 22:11:57 <signpost> while you're at it might wanna bump all the way to 9979
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 82a746a7c162ee0808e864ecb953504f2d8a4e42b5ab0b8d8384052ee918b715) prior to <PeterL> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 1d9eec57e70638d71fd79610ec7ed7712d34e831fe4f466f7a8ac7e8c89ba8f7) prior to <signpost> ---
e107bbd41d9eec57…1d9eec57…2022-03-16 23:10:38 <signpost> gonna go find a beer and hamburg in the sun, bbl
f3485e660c11139c…8b5bd131…2022-03-18 15:04:38 <shinohai> Never tried myself (though I'm not much of an IDE person)
3dfeadd2cc5d0786…f844caa3…2022-03-18 15:07:24 <shinohai> Do let us know if any good, it might improve/motivate me to do more w/ lisp.
0d6b4e85d09468c5…cc5d0786…2022-03-18 15:10:18 <awt> Costs $750 for the hobbyist version (non-commercial use)
8d2f5d8c0d6b4e85…d82421ac…2022-03-18 16:03:54 <billymg> i've never tried a full IDE but i do like the "almost IDEs" such as sublime text and vscode
7202aa368d2f5d8c…8d2f5d8c…2022-03-18 16:05:14 <billymg> these last few days i've been using NERDTree / VIM as my main editor because i haven't yet figured out how to get sublime or vscode running on musl
fc2a5dce9aaffd2e…7202aa36…2022-03-18 16:10:31 <billymg> it's nice, just somewhat of a learning curve coming from the graphical text editors
b358c086fc2a5dce…fc2a5dce…2022-03-18 16:16:33 <billymg> been learning how to use pandas and matplotlib as well. charts coming soon to the crawler www
e5923a0e530610d4…b2ec8978…2022-03-18 16:16:44 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 8205; TRB-Compatible: 58; TRB: 12
b14c4294e5923a0e…e5923a0e…2022-03-18 16:16:44 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 25; Canada: 7; Romania: 4; Russia: 4; Mexico: 2; Singapore: 2; France: 2; Germany: 2; United Kingdom: 2; Ukraine: 1; Netherlands: 1; Italy: 1; Uruguay: 1; South Africa: 1; Saudi Arabia: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
c4914e7eb14c4294…b14c4294…2022-03-18 16:16:44 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Singapore: 1; France: 1;
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain c7a661c021e81c0561e52e6f29dd5c4bb98e13e8ac67c9395580b9832735eccb) prior to <billymg> ---
ed3083dbf79867b0…c4914e7e…2022-03-18 16:17:59 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 23h 12m ago; last restart: 23h 12m ago
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 07450c9def7063c05d65435d5adc1ee236f3f534802de29c8a680bf3452df8b1) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
0f5dd1399e960c7e…58a60053…2022-03-19 01:44:55 <awt> https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1504899202027040772
71224c3b0f5dd139…e107bbd4…2022-03-19 02:20:12 <signpost> awt: amusing thing there is the telegram guy's last claim to fame was getting vkontakte repo'd by fsb
8015657871224c3b…71224c3b…2022-03-19 02:21:10 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ONUU << poast from telegram
1788d5e680156578…80156578…2022-03-19 02:22:04 <signpost> sounds like had something to do with them not censoring badbits for brazil fast enough
69476a001788d5e6…0f5dd139…2022-03-19 02:33:41 awt only recently learned the guy had been part of vkontakte and was ukr (i think)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2deab65b8a4a1eac4fff24f8a86541252f43147e0c0e6b4c942e2e4f458f2f5e) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 61784b3390e0838bbde92486ccc80ecea375c014b16cd818b4b5da2d8943e4e3) prior to <awt> ---
b429918661784b33…61784b33…2022-03-19 15:54:43 <awt> likely no updates to blatta in the next couple of weeks - will be down south
8ca173f6b4299186…b4299186…2022-03-19 16:05:51 <awt> billymg: is it possibly to purchase decent displays in CR?
5f15322a3727534b…31018804…2022-03-19 21:09:29 <billymg> awt: i haven't really looked ever, the desktop one i use i brought during the move. you could check out pricesmart or walmart, they might have something passable
d2ebef745f15322a…5f15322a…2022-03-19 21:10:04 <billymg> otherwise you can always use these guys and order anything you want off amazon/ebay/etc.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d2094ebf24dc35e678fbf6a28144aa822895f7e152e902caed26ae5e14664393) prior to <billymg> ---
eb21a13fd2094ebf…d2ebef74…2022-03-19 21:43:20 <billymg> np, yeah, probably not worth the hassle for something as fragile as a monitor
5697124eeb21a13f…2deab65b…2022-03-19 21:43:00 <signpost> awt: one can purchase shipping kits for monitors, shaped foam and so on, that might fit in luggage
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 03eef0b6e8b796b536f50b730078437c60202e49ada54d135f6119582f57edfb) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
6f429b6803eef0b6…03eef0b6…2022-03-20 02:34:01 asciilifeform also suspects older units were less breakable
267548e6699ce1ed…eb21a13f…2022-03-20 17:18:54 <billymg> awt: that movie is awesome, watched it recently when in a brief 90s movies kick
fb66e6d2267548e6…699ce1ed…2022-03-20 17:22:53 <awt> I'm loving the color and style, as well as the old tech
768a91d4fb66e6d2…9aaffd2e…2022-03-20 17:41:20 shinohai nostalgic for days he piped gpg msg's through nms because Sneakers ....
aee98b78425b906b…267548e6…2022-03-23 22:27:04 <billymg> awt: how's bitcoinistan? (if you're there already)
4d2cad57aee98b78…aee98b78…2022-03-23 22:35:33 <billymg> https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1506746055815217163 << looks like the threats are starting
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 3d7844078f659898014a9142ce57e726e3e7502495d0025c43e7058cc575baee) prior to <awt> ---
d6656d107bd971f4…4d2cad57…2022-03-24 15:23:29 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-24#1004898 << ah, i believe this is that "bitcoin jungle" that was mentioned a month or so ago
bad07c57d6656d10…94c5ded4…2022-03-24 15:23:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-24 03:09:15 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: There are reportedly some places here that take btc. I suspect only lighting. We'll see tomorrow.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 5c6db086f72845e62728e61831141c1fbc7862b7755dab43660a6b3978fa824e) prior to <awt> ---
9c4f8b695c6db086…2a9b578b…2022-03-25 02:07:23 <awt> Tried paying for breakfast at th Mono Congo with lightning. Failed.
e9a885b3c94916b8…9c4f8b69…2022-03-25 03:32:24 <awt> Never showed up on the other end, then marked as canceled. Via cash app. No clue what the cafe was using.
01f16997b1ca675d…768a91d4…2022-03-25 14:11:44 <shinohai> Lightning is just so cumbersome, so much trouble just to have instant near-0 fee txns
4dfc1e6d01f16997…94c014e0…2022-03-25 14:23:08 <billymg> i'm sure they'll work out the kinks over time. awt: is cashapp just a gox in this scenario? i.e. you click send and then they generate and transmit the lightning transaction on your behalf? or is the transaction actually originating from the app on your phone?
bff327e14dfc1e6d…4dfc1e6d…2022-03-25 14:26:04 <billymg> imo cool still that places in costa rica are adopting this kyc-free way of using bitcoin
820ff0bebff327e1…bff327e1…2022-03-25 14:26:43 <billymg> even if only for bananas and breakfast burritos
a285ce43820ff0be…e9a885b3…2022-03-25 14:39:26 <awt> billymg: yes gox/wallet inspector type situation
c6173c5891e38a93…a285ce43…2022-03-25 14:40:04 <awt> It is cool that they're trying but was not an optimal experience. People were waiting in line behind me and talking about bitcoin.
132ceff2c6173c58…c6173c58…2022-03-25 14:40:43 <awt> billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=wallet+inspector&chan=all
1a8ffd83864d7541…5c6db086…2022-03-25 14:45:35 <bitbot> (trilema) 2014-08-01 punkman: "Your hot private key is encrypted by a password only you know using AES 256 encryption and stored in our database. "
f2c0d654e342104d…3bd07250…2022-03-26 20:52:00 <awt> Lol just met the owners of the Mono Congo (which is in Dominical) at the lab in Santa Ana
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 34fa20a2f292e6277865468614fd338a1af7aa616adcc7d29d32d4700a9aace0) prior to <awt> ---
801ab7582cfe0f4a…2cfe0f4a…2022-03-27 20:50:25 <awt> Incidentally 2 days before I arrive in ES, Bukele declares a state of emergency
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 17b0b07bf6258f32a3b8d3bca2ebab3378b2a278caf90d85fb9f078fc6290a63) prior to <awt> ---
1919f0a50752e76d…0752e76d…2022-03-27 20:49:34 <asciilifeform> perhaps usg was able to spare bit of dough to 'venezuelize' there
a14a57dd895e71fd…aae77e16…2022-03-28 00:42:30 <awt> billymg: I think I can still go. I'm showing up at the airport anyway.
9356c747a14a57dd…895e71fd…2022-03-28 00:56:40 <billymg> can't wait to hear what it's like first-hand from someone in l1
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d312eb4aefd00a70e0b65e64afc14e6e6e31dcc525c70c4750bc59b7295b0c23) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
9789d9f3d312eb4a…d312eb4a…2022-03-28 20:59:28 asciilifeform looked at his www some months ago, seemed ~100% mp-style 'here's what i ate!'
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 90cfa2bdb7d939ed54a3dadde16cde1b8052579cf8b653558055a819c87e7e9e) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
3f3f3a861fa23f53…f4fa4619…2022-03-30 23:27:00 <PeterL> annnd ... there's all the replays from the last few days. interesting that it took so long for them all to come through (about half an hour since I connected), if I understand right having a prod message will make that go faster?
dfcd67d2e0a6aed1…e9f3ae6d…2022-03-29 00:59:30 <billymg> from when awt tried: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-28#1004942
e34c6303dfcd67d2…1a8ffd83…2022-03-29 00:59:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-28 19:44:01 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: $ticker btc usd
83a8cf6c95b0d7e7…3469078d…2022-03-29 13:12:30 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 12 hours 25 minutes and 42 seconds
56bac7b583a8cf6c…e0ea8601…2022-03-29 19:13:55 <awt> This is near where I'll be staying in ES: https://twitter.com/miguevaquerano/status/1508879648507285515?s=21&t=q2hHTrTi-gZjUG0xVIWefQ
25ea17e402c74ef1…85f9f231…2022-03-31 15:07:29 <shinohai> i cant figure out why the join/parts from busybot constantly
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a977a4adae6d4acd73a7f9c88473dee1705c033d55fe020462b8f75dff92d617) prior to <awt> ---
865304aaa977a4ad…a977a4ad…2022-04-01 12:19:06 <awt> Saw way fewer gringos at the airport than you would normally see at San Juan Santa Maria or Liberia.
28df704c865304aa…865304aa…2022-04-01 12:20:17 <awt> The airport itself is maybe 70s era and somewhat run down, although the shops inside all look clean and new.
01bea10728df704c…28df704c…2022-04-01 12:32:24 <awt> Tried a Chivo atm at the airport. In fact looks like you don't need to be an ES resident to withdraw USD. Just gotta fork over your phone number. Works with US numbers.
afc4f9ff01bea107…01bea107…2022-04-01 12:43:15 <awt> Was hot as hell at the airport, which is about 45 minutes away. Climate is somewhat cooler in San Salvador.
b917085d8e5427dd…afc4f9ff…2022-04-01 16:24:23 <awt> Successfully withdrew $400 from a Chivo atm. Max is $600 per withdrawal. Don't know if that's a daily limit per phone # or not.
47fe671fb917085d…23884763…2022-04-01 16:22:15 <signpost> awt: curious whether the thing's "database money" or using lightning
d5bdf34147fe671f…b917085d…2022-04-01 16:25:11 <awt> You send the btc, then it prints out a receipt and you get a text after 1 confirmation. Then you redeem the cash with the code on the receipt.
e93b2c495d2f0b87…47fe671f…2022-04-01 16:23:01 <signpost> got it, so sounds like the atm's using database money, and there's some webservice behind it that received a lightning txn
b77e97ee89d4a073…89d4a073…2022-04-01 16:28:09 <awt> Wouldn't be surprised if it was running a BTCPay server somehow.
2f3b7039b77e97ee…b77e97ee…2022-04-01 16:33:53 <awt> No "shortage" of tarnished old quarters here either. They gave me 4 of them instead of a precious dollar bill as change.
afde1f522f3b7039…2f3b7039…2022-04-01 16:37:51 <awt> Incidentally a local was waiting in line behind me to use the thing, so it's not just Bitcoin tourists using it.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 8b3b04b7f1f2a93d7d75728fcd74b700e76ba1d7492a4cbc257c1fe221581dfa) prior to <awt> ---
107f53a78dc5c751…8dc5c751…2022-04-02 15:38:36 <awt> Food is about 10% cheaper here than CA/CR. Maybe more.
63653b04107f53a7…107f53a7…2022-04-02 15:40:16 <awt> Also was wrong about the quarters. Actually they use $1 coins.
a1104eba83d00014…8e5427dd…2022-04-02 16:05:40 <billymg> food as in groceries or western level restaurants?
32498c66a1104eba…a1104eba…2022-04-02 16:08:56 <billymg> did you figure out if the $600 atm limit is daily?
9a85065e32498c66…25ea17e4…2022-04-02 16:16:41 <shinohai> bot still mia, couldn't get it to stop the join/quit thing so gonna swap shells.
c088460195d76978…cea11e22…2022-04-02 17:12:03 <awt> billymg: would need to bring a bag or something in case it worked. 1200 in 20s doesn't fit reasonably in my wallet.
a16110bdc0884601…c0884601…2022-04-02 17:13:55 <awt> Still seeing almost zero gringos outside of my apartment tower, which reputedly is the residence of various local and foreign government officials.
3e5b8e0ca16110bd…a16110bd…2022-04-02 17:27:44 <awt> shinohai: btw only those peered with the bot see the join/part spam
b847a7d53e5b8e0c…9a85065e…2022-04-02 17:41:10 <shinohai> kk awt, but another bug I had with this shell is that if bot sat idle a while, the process just died
ec232ef68efc8b55…cdb2b93e…2022-04-02 17:52:17 <shinohai> finally msg trickling through, may just be cuz slow hardware xD
3b66b0787e69f9b8…92e13b05…2022-04-02 18:14:31 <u0_a280> The bot has been up for: 5 minutes and 1 seconds
d6dae19c28601f62…95d76978…2022-04-02 21:33:08 <billymg> shinohai: i saw the bot's response to $uptime but not to the ticker command
1dbfa4f0d6dae19c…e34c6303…2022-04-02 21:33:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-04-02 20:47:54 shinohai[asciilifeform]: $ticker btc usd
8e452a171dbfa4f0…28601f62…2022-04-02 21:33:56 <shinohai> yeah bot is still doing the join/part dance tho on android it *does* stay running.
c7377d7c95b1e5fe…ec0baa08…2022-04-04 00:28:51 <awt> Manged to buy some cold brew at a Cafe in El Zonte with Cash App via lightning.
1ef90d67c7377d7c…c7377d7c…2022-04-04 00:30:08 <awt> Had some oysters that I saw some guy dragging in to the beach on an inner tube. If you don't hear from me tomorrow you'll know why.
71696ad51ef90d67…8b3b04b7…2022-04-04 01:38:09 <signpost> the more recently your food was alive the better, I say.
820de3fc71696ad5…a09bf179…2022-04-04 17:32:12 <asciilifeform> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/tbf/tbf_q1_2022.txt
0ce237e6820de3fc…d6dae19c…2022-04-04 19:11:04 <billymg> the "populist" candidate won in the cr elections
688205350ce237e6…0ce237e6…2022-04-04 19:14:26 <billymg> leading up to the election the media's description of him was always along the lines of "populist" "like trump and bolsonaro" "danger to 'our democracy'" etc.
ed0093b068820535…68820535…2022-04-04 19:16:13 <billymg> i never even heard of Chaves (the winner) until after the first round of elections when he came in second. then it was "who could've predicted? is this a sign of dangerous populist sentiment?" etc.
5110f1faed0093b0…ed0093b0…2022-04-04 19:17:11 <billymg> whereas Figueres, the clear globohomo pick, had billboards everywhere
97ce36d3da46f207…da46f207…2022-04-04 19:59:28 <awt> billymg: was getting pretty sick of his soy face
aebb8d324e47b969…4e47b969…2022-04-04 20:00:57 <awt> Looks like same options as in CR, but somewhat cheaper + soon the ability to get residency through holding a certain amount of "volcano bonds"
a60fc5c42c95f8e2…5645b963…2022-04-04 20:04:36 <billymg> my cr process has been a nightmare because of the 1.5 year covid shutdown of the immigration office
b8d0f21ba60fc5c4…2c95f8e2…2022-04-04 20:06:40 <awt> billymg: may be able to buy the bonds with btc. They mature in 5 years after which you get 50% of the gain in btc back, meanwhile 6% (annual?) interest.
f0ab4e77ca5dcdb1…7db5e1b0…2022-04-04 20:08:02 <awt> (don't want to give the impression I think there's 100% or even 50% chance you'd get your money back btw, but would at least get residency)
2d852afc88a46a99…88a46a99…2022-04-04 20:09:43 <awt> Also seems I survived eating raw oysters on the beach. Must not be too much sewage in the ocean.
5a57a56421183370…21183370…2022-04-04 20:08:18 <billymg> what's it like in general over there? livable?
14be79555a57a564…2d852afc…2022-04-04 20:10:46 <awt> billymg: parts are quite livable. Other parts are still pre-columbian.
bbca64b5b51aa7ad…b51aa7ad…2022-04-04 20:14:46 <awt> Learned that gang members make up about 1% of the population i.e. 70k out of 6 mil
4dfb3489bbca64b5…bbca64b5…2022-04-04 20:15:00 <awt> hard to believe they fit more than the entire population of CR in here
619eabea4dfb3489…22d5dddc…2022-04-04 20:28:42 <billymg> i wonder what the gang-affiliated percentage of the population is here
e0acfeee619eabea…619eabea…2022-04-04 20:29:52 <billymg> but yeah, i wouldn't have guessed that their population is bigger than CR's
053699ea862595f7…862595f7…2022-04-16 19:02:22 <billymg> awt: pest stations communicate with each other via their UDP ports, right? and the IRC port is just for the user to connect to the pest station with an IRC client?
afe9f63e4fecd041…14559a8e…2022-04-16 20:51:43 <asciilifeform> billymg: if yer pestron is on the racked box, no need to do anyffin in particular re port
badbc057afe9f63e…afe9f63e…2022-04-16 20:52:06 <asciilifeform> billymg: if it's behind a nat, can open the port, then will escape nat, but won't be needed after the nat driller implemented
b0a2a2cfbadbc057…e62456a1…2022-04-16 21:11:01 <awt> billymg: not sure I understand the question - perhaps asciilifeform's inference is correct. But to your first couple questions, yes, interpest comms all over udp. IRC port is only to be used to connect to a single IRC client.
755e7c2fb0a2a2cf…badbc057…2022-04-16 21:19:08 <asciilifeform> billymg: note that the irc frontend is entirely defenseless. see s. 2.5.
ad3fd13b755e7c2f…755e7c2f…2022-04-16 21:19:27 <asciilifeform> 'Traditional IRC offers no provisions for secure authentication or encryption; hence, it is recommended that a Pest station and its IRC client reside in one physical machine. Alternatively, they may run on separate machines and connect via an SSH tunnel or similar mechanism.'
2cbb8ea0ad3fd13b…4fecd041…2022-04-16 21:21:11 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, for this reason i moved both the pest station and the bot to another server, rather than trying to keep the pest station running on one server and connect remotely via another
fd9cb41d9c06c3fa…2cbb8ea0…2022-04-16 21:22:02 <billymg> awt: by "port open/listening" i meant show up in results of `ss -tuln | grep -i listen`
fb780253fd9cb41d…fd9cb41d…2022-04-16 21:22:47 <billymg> i noticed that when i ran that command the irc ports were listed, but not the udp ports. and since i've also had trouble peering with some other stations i thought perhaps i had something misconfigured
141eb3fafb780253…fb780253…2022-04-16 21:24:08 <billymg> so now my issue is peering with the bot from my primary station (station and bot seem to be running fine otherwise)
e84fea68141eb3fa…9c06c3fa…2022-04-16 21:23:30 <asciilifeform> billymg: are both stations under nat ?
41832854e84fea68…141eb3fa…2022-04-16 21:25:18 <billymg> asciilifeform: one station is on the rk in your rack, i haven't done anything special with the network config afaik
550f1acc41832854…e84fea68…2022-04-16 21:24:19 <asciilifeform> a then there not need to do anything re ports
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 5d01b1de3e835d0abda3f1996aaddc1ea0d5fca5444a874fc3e0b1bf1b5a1b9e) prior to <signpost> ---
ea89d0085d01b1de…71696ad5…2022-04-16 21:25:19 <signpost> still wondering wtf is preventing peering with billymg on my end.
490bbea218629ab6…ea89d008…2022-04-16 21:26:01 <signpost> billymg] <- BROADCAST ACTION peered with that one, without any apparent issues << doesn't this indicate that my node is trying to send his packets?
f41d1664490bbea2…855c4809…2022-04-16 21:34:13 <billymg> signpost: at least i'll have a chance to debug from both ends now, hoping i can get to the bottom of it
1485ae045870f74d…5870f74d…2022-04-17 02:06:33 <awt> signpost: you may not be on the latest version: 9978
8fbaf8bf5befddd0…1485ae04…2022-04-17 02:17:06 <awt> signpost: ok. got a badly formatted message from you that used /me. thought I had fixed that bug.
6965f39b8fbaf8bf…e5751602…2022-04-17 11:47:43 shinohai is seeing all ACTION messages as they normally should appear .....
8fcd9bf0260b6869…260b6869…2022-04-17 14:33:52 <awt> shinohai: not going too bad. nice to be back home.
35ff70967ea57fb3…4df65bc4…2022-04-17 14:31:19 <shinohai> Pretty good here, enjoying a cafecito in this nice spring weather (at least before the rain comes later).
f4e6506635ff7096…7ea57fb3…2022-04-17 14:37:58 <awt> aha having a cafecito myself. tried with stevia - never again
31301618f4e65066…35ff7096…2022-04-17 14:36:06 <shinohai> stevia tastes so weird, one of the girls bought some once thinking it was splenda or something.
ad8ff7a831301618…31301618…2022-04-17 14:36:27 <shinohai> Straight into the trash with all the other hipster nonsense.
40931616a168cc4e…a168cc4e…2022-04-17 14:47:13 <awt> oh also re: coffee - ES coffee didn't measure up to CR coffee, sad to say
92d6fa9040931616…40931616…2022-04-17 14:47:48 <awt> and the food in general was of lower quality, albeit cheaper.
8ad0de4b92d6fa90…ad8ff7a8…2022-04-17 14:45:42 shinohai has yet to try any ES coffee, but adores most central american coffees he has tried ...
4d3b63408ad0de4b…8ad0de4b…2022-04-17 14:46:49 <shinohai> Unless Cafe Bustelo counts as ES, that's my fave espresso.
388706344d3b6340…18629ab6…2022-04-18 22:04:02 <asciilifeform> hmm shinohai loox like our peering not working (and in fact since feb 27)
78cc0d4238870634…4d3b6340…2022-04-18 22:07:19 <shinohai> Think I mentioned previously asciilifeform, still seeing you as hearsay :/
8b4f13c31a3e5214…1a3e5214…2022-04-18 22:07:46 <asciilifeform> evidently worked previously tho (at entry shows feb 27)
91ef11598b4f13c3…78cc0d42…2022-04-18 22:08:24 <shinohai> Notice(Pest): asciilifeform 71.191.220.241:7778 no packets received from this address
5ae37cf291ef1159…8b4f13c3…2022-04-18 22:08:34 asciilifeform expects this headache will vanish when nat driller implemented
6deb2c50bc523a06…91ef1159…2022-04-18 22:09:58 <shinohai> Only thing I've done is the upgrades when awt releases, still cannot get peered with you or billymg for some odd reason.
b96e414091e80943…91e80943…2022-04-18 22:11:43 <asciilifeform> shinohai: try adding at for 71.191.220.241:1337 (perma-port opened on nat manually)
3f07e4006ad26e49…59855756…2022-04-18 22:15:02 asciilifeform looked in notes, loox like shinohai had outdated entry asciilifeform had sent him before manually opening nat hole
484a0ad83f07e400…3f07e400…2022-04-18 22:17:35 <asciilifeform> but yea, this peering will break if asciilifeform's public ip changes. rly oughta have the driller.
ff2b51b62c68ec32…6ad26e49…2022-04-18 22:19:31 <shinohai> weird when you did /me asciilifeform I see you as hearsay again. xD
bf50e19070e11581…70e11581…2022-04-19 01:29:58 asciilifeform not saw any corresponding sequence of join/part for shinohai
778b8232bf50e190…bf5adbc7…2022-04-19 01:31:04 <shinohai> My bot was doing same thing before I shut it down, dunno why the join/part thing kept happening.
c67c280a778b8232…92d6fa90…2022-04-19 14:31:13 <awt> asciilifeform, shinohai: http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=peer_offline_interval_seconds&chan=pest
c3b118d0c67c280a…c67c280a…2022-04-19 14:31:34 <awt> asciilifeform: what evidence is there that this is a bug?
eb74c812c3b118d0…bf50e190…2022-04-19 14:27:39 <asciilifeform> awt: hmm what's that knob set to by default ?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 1d06ce7198d1ea34613ed282abfe1901611272d02529c7db583624a1feab2c82) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
f1e28e13eb944603…eb944603…2022-04-20 16:22:34 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 9 minutes and 28 seconds
48c7dc4dd9ef73f4…d9ef73f4…2022-04-20 16:22:35 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 9 minutes and 29 seconds
141c038748c7dc4d…48c7dc4d…2022-04-20 16:22:36 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 9 minutes and 29 seconds
effc286664c898ba…141c0387…2022-04-20 20:57:35 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 4 hours 45 minutes and 5 seconds
57a9ded040f9edaf…40f9edaf…2022-04-22 16:15:16 <shinohai> [*] 2022-04-22T18:13:49+02:00 [IN] :shinohai PRIVMSG #pest :$ticker btc usd
f4277f0357a9ded0…57a9ded0…2022-04-22 16:15:19 <shinohai> [*] 2022-04-22T18:13:49+02:00 [OUT] PRIVMSG #pest :Current BTC price in USD: $39341.38
4b3d99acf4277f03…f4277f03…2022-04-22 16:15:21 <shinohai> [*] 2022-04-22T18:13:50+02:00 [IN] :shinohai AWAY :
0f4835214b3d99ac…4b3d99ac…2022-04-22 16:15:45 <shinohai> Doing that crazy things again where bot never sends msg to chan once chan/peer is idle.
0330e7abeceee6f1…83dbed1b…2022-04-22 17:18:05 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 58 minutes and 4 seconds
8326f63a0330e7ab…96f66eec…2022-04-22 17:27:51 <awt> would need to dig in to the message sending logic
cfc2ef8846bb3f70…eceee6f1…2022-04-22 17:27:16 <shinohai> awt imma try setting that knob on bot station same as mine (switched bot back to blatta for now) and see if it helps.
d03e4130db1cd5bd…e78ca13e…2022-04-23 15:53:05 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 23 hours 33 minutes and 4 seconds
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 637c67450172b2f6463f45225adaaedd62f5a8a6ffebbbcc86300e7765ad241d) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
1dd44acd637c6745…a1df5509…2022-04-19 14:31:09 <asciilifeform> shinohai: notice they weren't 60s apart tho
0c7ac57c1dd44acd…1dd44acd…2022-04-19 14:31:21 <asciilifeform> and no join/part noise b/w/ asciilifeform showing up on shinohai's end as peered vs hearsay
01ae761a0c7ac57c…637c6745…2022-04-19 14:31:32 <shinohai> Yeah the join/parts all occur on my end @ completely random times.
a747040d01ae761a…0c7ac57c…2022-04-19 14:31:37 <asciilifeform> so difficult to see how the knob pertains
877e0d51a747040d…a747040d…2022-04-19 14:32:07 <asciilifeform> fwiw shinohai has been showing up on asciilifeform's console as peered ever since this point
368786e3877e0d51…ec274ad1…2022-04-19 14:33:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-04-18 22:15:59 shinohai[asciilifeform]: aha! now works, you just "joined".
d64d1c35368786e3…4072fff7…2022-04-19 14:36:58 <awt> asciilifeform: are you familiar with how the decision is made as to when to send a join/part?
644d380bd64d1c35…877e0d51…2022-04-19 14:33:16 <asciilifeform> awt: iirc is when no packets recvd during peer_offline_interval_seconds neh
b3cdf78fa7a9e811…413828eb…2022-04-19 14:39:54 <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/patches/9979-presence#L165 hm
10a7f174b908cb80…a7a9e811…2022-04-19 14:45:23 <awt> a part indicates (duriing a presence check) that the at hasn't been updated for > 60s.
ba0462a110a7f174…b908cb80…2022-04-19 14:42:59 <asciilifeform> awt: do i misread or is the timestamp in fact only updated when there's a logline rather than when any valid packet?
de850b0cba0462a1…ba0462a1…2022-04-19 14:46:30 <asciilifeform> or hm, superficially correct. but still suspect that update_at was not being called, for some reason, on shinohai's station
100685742c20bcf8…de850b0c…2022-04-19 14:47:15 <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/patches/9978-bugfixes/tree/blatta/lib/station.py << lol 404 ( hey phf ?? )
1ef7b941eebfdcc7…eebfdcc7…2022-04-19 14:51:58 <asciilifeform> awt: loox like in get_at , the time is converted from utc to local, but in in handle_is_online, time.time() used ?
4c7000c11ef7b941…1ef7b941…2022-04-19 14:55:14 asciilifeform currently suspects that bug triggered on machine where local clock not set to utc. but not yet found concrete proof
0c6f23aa4c7000c1…2c20bcf8…2022-04-19 15:03:02 <awt> asciilifeform: possibly but pestbot is running on a machine with local time not set to utc and I don't see these issues.
b5c389b28d7832f3…5befddd0…2022-04-19 15:13:18 signpost just set his server to UTC to see if that caused peering with billymg to work.
3d364c5fb5c389b2…b5c389b2…2022-04-19 15:13:37 <signpost> doesn't look like it, current active peers are asciilifeform, awt, jonsykkel, mod6, shinohai.
998ee8ba3d364c5f…01ae761a…2022-04-19 15:15:23 shinohai has no other peer in list currently but asciilifeform however sees signpost fine.
96f66eec998ee8ba…0c6f23aa…2022-04-19 15:19:43 <awt> signpost: possible debugging technique for peering issues could be do backup blatta db, remove all other peerings, then send to the other party to debug locally
f5b6662531441b8f…31441b8f…2022-04-19 16:50:42 <billymg> meh, still nothing. tried opening crawlerbot's port via ec2's "security groups" UI
01522c3a2dee92a7…2dee92a7…2022-04-19 16:58:35 <billymg> signpost: still a mystery to me why we're not peered but at this point i'm ok to wait for it to "fix itself" (via whatever random change in system or config finally shakes it loose)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ee4e626c308a31dd185202b263bb64981bb28d85304cfe200782ca9805d3e841) prior to <busybot> ---
7a4cffd9ee4e626c…d03e4130…2022-04-25 17:08:21 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 3 days 48 minutes and 21 seconds
c18b980f76f26a2d…368786e3…2022-04-27 18:07:45 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 45d 19h 8m
a2b58472717fbfd1…717fbfd1…2022-04-27 18:11:01 <billymg> restarted the bot with a new version, see the response in the logs but not in my terminal. wonder if it's a delay or if i need to also restart the blatta station it's connected to
de322acdf6599638…28662d74…2022-04-27 18:12:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-04-27 18:11:32 bitbot: I am bot version 733831.
76cb78dc87d3fa71…46bb3f70…2022-05-01 01:02:35 <awt> For gregorynyssa: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jk5d
498bde7d54818384…87d3fa71…2022-05-03 14:36:19 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 10 days 22 hours 16 minutes and 18 seconds
967ef1ac2f2f53b4…498bde7d…2022-05-05 20:45:05 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 13 days 4 hours 25 minutes and 5 seconds
97bf4c5af048de60…d12b8bb4…2022-05-08 14:11:18 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 44896e33aeb299d43df5f1fa7fc77121c244d86c9272f938a2f609fbc9a94ba8) prior to <shinohai> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 704e8fcdeb4270f8f5115e51cfd969e39f891b2b0bb0852fb436f0dce51dd82e) prior to <shinohai> ---
d55f8b34704e8fcd…d6b8c046…2022-05-08 22:25:04 <shinohai> Looks like imma hafta compile tcl, then sqlite, then py2.7 and *then* should be able to blatta if all goes well.
a253fa8d9f461618…513ae426…2022-05-09 00:09:16 <signpost> shinohai: hm, and what dependency hell is tcl going to drag in?
f61c21b6a253fa8d…a253fa8d…2022-05-09 00:10:07 signpost does want blatta. might be worth it for me to help replace blatta's storage.
7d7cc45df61c21b6…f61c21b6…2022-05-09 00:10:49 <signpost> looks like maybe tcl just wants bdb, which will already be present for bitcoind.
38213d287d7cc45d…a07569e8…2022-05-09 00:11:05 <shinohai> signpost: Best I can tell mostly C code, a small bit of Ada in there too: https://github.com/tcltk/tcl
68e7ffe238213d28…7d7cc45d…2022-05-09 00:13:08 <signpost> I don't want to be so religious we don't do anything, just mindful of how much stuff gets dragged in.
9be624dd68e7ffe2…68e7ffe2…2022-05-09 00:13:25 <signpost> this exercise at least tells us how many things we actually depend upon.
e4d259eb9be624dd…38213d28…2022-05-09 00:14:02 <shinohai> That's what I was thinking, at least gives one thorough education in *precisely* what exists on system.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 017fdd146996c602fd68630659663eb1977e29ef216995af573c604e08a081e4) prior to <signpost> ---
9bee3a42017fdd14…017fdd14…2022-05-09 00:17:38 <signpost> probably about time I cut a genesis for pbuild and the build scripts. I'll get to that next week, and then you'll be unblocked to patch.
b10390c67251b30b…1490b8a2…2022-05-09 00:21:31 <shinohai> Now there may be more things that surface once I try building w/ sqlite support - I'm prolly not gonna compile w/ ssl and all that stuff unless someone knows reason I should.
980680a957e72ca6…7251b30b…2022-05-09 00:22:16 <signpost> interesting, saving https://bugs.python.org/issue20594 in my notes, and here for posterity.
41f5e28c980680a9…980680a9…2022-05-09 00:23:06 <signpost> shinohai: I did a build of python last week sometime and also skipped ssl, though we should explicitly kill it off in the configure step so it doesn't see bitcoind's old openssl and decide to enable
a008c92f41f5e28c…41f5e28c…2022-05-09 00:23:36 signpost would much rather have zero ssl than w/e old-ass openssl that happened to work in trb.
da55d287a008c92f…57e72ca6…2022-05-09 00:24:47 <shinohai> I imagine openssl eventually gonna rear ugly head though in something :/
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 13d4a88719f7368c4a3099863c3a3dd503172985e0fa555d159802d993d06607) prior to <signpost> ---
d9f8de1713d4a887…13d4a887…2022-05-09 00:31:47 <signpost> shinohai: hm, ugh, now I wonder how much openssh depends on openssl.
8c106822d9f8de17…da55d287…2022-05-09 00:32:38 <shinohai> That was one of the next things I wanted to try after I got past blatta.
9e9eb60c8c106822…d9f8de17…2022-05-09 00:33:09 <signpost> well anyway, I don't want to apply such conservatism that nothing at all can be done. pressure can be applied to at least minimize optional interdependency.
a710556fa5585bcd…8c106822…2022-05-09 00:34:26 <shinohai> I'm addicted to it though already, everything just makes sense, is readable.
61c2b7eedcf49873…a5585bcd…2022-05-09 00:41:15 <signpost> glad to hear it. put a lot of sweat into it, and intend to use it for a few embedded projects soon. (home defense stuff with perimeter sensors and cameras, without obscene cloud shit)
4d91f69d61c2b7ee…61c2b7ee…2022-05-09 00:41:51 <signpost> will very much appreciate your and others help making pentacle more useful, and keeping the thing tidy/small.
22b45fdd4d91f69d…dcf49873…2022-05-09 00:43:20 <shinohai> have you tried building it on a non-x86 machine yet?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 32fcfc30e8194f8a0cea9c101b5e2075bf59f2593fa22afd0e52fd3b56e55a9e) prior to <signpost> ---
9f1ea97bcf547f6e…22b45fdd…2022-05-09 00:51:23 <shinohai> That would be neato (similar to doing crosdev currently)
bc8e00f48e789fc4…51c8e354…2022-05-09 00:53:58 <shinohai> Hmmmm tcl build fails with tclEpollNotfy.c:28:23: fatal error: sys/queue.h: No such file or directory
f90de3ab44f96ae9…bc8e00f4…2022-05-09 00:58:10 <shinohai> tclsh is what it bitches about not having, could find nothing yet on method to build without it.
43eac2d8f90de3ab…44f96ae9…2022-05-09 01:05:22 <awt> It seems as though sqlite was initially developed as an extension for tcl.
ed86aaca43eac2d8…f90de3ab…2022-05-09 01:00:15 <shinohai> Could have sworn I built by hand years ago w/ only awk scripts and no tcl, but guess I dreamed it.
32659c9aed86aaca…f5f7fa01…2022-05-09 01:04:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005299 << is used there for the ecdsaism. asciilifeform has notions of replacing w/ ffaistic routines.
d196081532659c9a…de322acd…2022-05-09 01:06:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-09 00:25:16 signpost[asciilifeform]: would much rather have zero ssl than w/e old-ass openssl that happened to work in trb.
d2431962d1960815…32659c9a…2022-05-09 01:06:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005311 << asciilifeform plans cameras around new pad, quite interested in what signpost digs up re: usable irons to plant the thing on
fa976e6fd2431962…d1960815…2022-05-09 01:07:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-09 00:42:56 signpost[asciilifeform]: glad to hear it. put a lot of sweat into it, and intend to use it for a few embedded projects soon. (home defense stuff with perimeter sensors and cameras, without obscene cloud shit)
0c4c098afa976e6f…d2431962…2022-05-09 01:06:37 asciilifeform currently has ones which simply config'd to upload to local ftp on motion
b3e1434f0c4c098a…0c4c098a…2022-05-09 01:06:53 <asciilifeform> they annoyingly crash tho, coupla times / yr
9210ac1af0cabc0c…283c7360…2022-05-09 01:09:05 <shinohai> So appears musl doesn't have queue.h - alpine solves by introducing a bsd-compat-headers package.
738c1b97552d0d71…8e789fc4…2022-05-09 01:33:52 <signpost> asciilifeform: will let ya know if I find/build anything worthwhile in re: cameras.
2dca9446738c1b97…738c1b97…2022-05-09 01:36:18 <signpost> shinohai: sounds about right. elfutils (which contains libelf) wanted a bunch of other non-posix glibc funcs, which brought in argp-standalone, musl-fts, musl-obstack
0e96d1455fd4ec88…5fd4ec88…2022-05-09 01:37:59 <signpost> in the specific case of elfutils, only libelf is actually needed to build a recent kernel. perhaps some sawing would knock loose a few of those other deps too.
52797540603c18a7…603c18a7…2022-05-09 02:17:37 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-09#1005323 << yep, per sqlite website, "The build process makes extensive use of the Tcl scripting language"
0757a92e52797540…fa976e6f…2022-05-09 02:19:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-09 00:58:31 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: I am shocked tcl is required for sqlite
6d2b94f30757a92e…52797540…2022-05-09 02:18:41 <signpost> imho the correct thing is to capture the dependency as-is, taking care to not introduce *unnecessary* cross-dependency by disabling optional features, and once captured as vpatches, lop off complexity as feasible.
8d2fcfea6d2b94f3…6d2b94f3…2022-05-09 02:21:56 <signpost> perhaps one path would be standardizing an on-disk storage format with jonsykkel, such that both implementations eat/shit same format.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 8893e99ba21649df1b371639c2a88a96fd1360191a5b83f6ddbb62b327103781) prior to <shinohai> ---
5815ff5a8893e99b…8893e99b…2022-05-09 15:23:11 <shinohai> Finally build success using tcl8.6.11 & sqlite 33.8
db49bcbd7f1f64a8…8d2fcfea…2022-05-09 15:39:56 <signpost> shinohai: https://wiki.musl-libc.org/faq.html << mentions that queue.h is self-contained.
20a66523db49bcbd…db49bcbd…2022-05-09 15:40:16 <signpost> if so would be best to isolate that as it's own pbuild rather than whole wad of bsd's headers.
750efabcb563e0d3…7f1f64a8…2022-05-09 15:42:02 <shinohai> lol yeah I cheated and used queue.h by itself, ugly hack but it worx
087cc922a0f33647…ad237aaa…2022-05-09 15:42:33 <signpost> yeah, I typically do the same thing, just get something to build with own hands first, then carve off into tidy vpatches
ca9a560c087cc922…087cc922…2022-05-09 15:42:45 signpost bbl after pouring a coffee into his head as well
d00687b2ca9a560c…a0f33647…2022-05-09 15:57:30 <shinohai> annnnnd blatta now runs after recompiling python2.7 w/ sqlite
e11040ccee7930a4…ee7930a4…2022-05-09 16:34:48 signpost gets to work on cutting the pentacle_genesis.vpatch, 'bout time
99458d03e11040cc…d00687b2…2022-05-09 16:42:10 shinohai expecting weechat to be a whole 'nother nightmare if using it for client side of blatta ....
76ed5b6899458d03…e11040cc…2022-05-09 16:48:02 <signpost> so long as the minimal set of software remains small I don't see a problem with pulling in what we actually use.
161f628676ed5b68…76ed5b68…2022-05-09 16:48:25 <signpost> rather than pretending to ideological purity while you know, installing gnome on ubuntu on the dl.
bd21d033161f6286…161f6286…2022-05-09 16:48:48 <signpost> this way we actually get a handle on what makes our computers useful, and using a tool with which we can crank it smaller.
bdd97625c7449d9d…c7449d9d…2022-05-09 16:49:23 <signpost> I expect we'll see a PHP in this thing, mysql, etc.
c267f5c2bdd97625…bdd97625…2022-05-09 16:50:16 <signpost> problem becomes when some dork decides he'll e.g. rewrite pbuild in PHP, for reasons, and everything under the sun ends up hauled in for everybody.
bd97bae30ace2ccb…0ace2ccb…2022-05-09 16:51:34 <signpost> which is not to say hierarchy isn't already tangled. I don't know what business an ADA compiler has being written in ADA, or c compiler in c.
af9084614c1ba061…99458d03…2022-05-09 16:56:14 <shinohai> I like pbuild exactly because simple and won't stop working when python "upgrades" in 6 months.
0e56effaaf908461…a207c80d…2022-05-09 16:58:11 <signpost> 10k man-years of "just want to" in all directions, you know? "wouldn't I be clever if gnat were written in... itself!"
f4890ce00e56effa…0e56effa…2022-05-09 16:58:30 <signpost> fact is it's not fucking written in itself; it's written in the previous version, which is written in the previous version, which is...
791b0f07f4890ce0…f4890ce0…2022-05-09 16:58:47 <signpost> the dependency chain of such an artifact is gigantic.
9f41e9a8791b0f07…9f461618…2022-05-09 18:25:56 <billymg> signpost: i'm building pentacle now. when i first tried i got the error "couldn't work out current architecture". i added '--arch=amd64' right after line 60 in bootstrap-debian.sh and now it seems to be working
addcadde9f41e9a8…791b0f07…2022-05-09 18:24:50 <signpost> interesting. what is uname -m on your host machine?
53adc2c475015648…c3fb03cb…2022-05-09 18:29:05 <signpost> might be interesting to grep for that string in debootstrap and see what it uses to infer host arch
1c046e8353adc2c4…75015648…2022-05-09 18:33:04 <billymg> i found this when looking up the error message: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=710829
e6d7a6371c046e83…1c046e83…2022-05-09 18:33:57 <billymg> which just says to explicitly set --arch if 'dpkg' is not installed
5dbf5e95e6d7a637…53adc2c4…2022-05-09 18:34:29 <signpost> ah ok, my gentoo system has dpkg installed, and I wager debootstrap calls dpkg-architecture for this info.
9af92de35dbf5e95…5dbf5e95…2022-05-09 18:34:45 <signpost> cool, I will alter the bootstrap process to not rely upon this. thanks!
b2f4d463c64b40ba…c64b40ba…2022-05-09 18:37:46 <signpost> I'll add that --arch flag to bootstrap-debian.sh
736cf12d26ae2f6e…26ae2f6e…2022-05-09 18:43:40 <billymg> realized i forgot to set JOBS (even though i had planned to) so building will take a while
69b23746736cf12d…b2f4d463…2022-05-09 18:44:52 <signpost> can always ctrl-c and run ./clean.sh if you want, or just wait
375237b869b23746…736cf12d…2022-05-09 18:49:50 <billymg> yeah i'll just wait for this one. there's another box i have in mind that i'll test it on later too
2a16caa3debf3a0f…69b23746…2022-05-09 22:19:55 <signpost> looks like musl and several other items "settle" into binary reproducibility after another post-bootstrap rebuild.
131da5d32a16caa3…2a16caa3…2022-05-09 22:21:29 <signpost> makes some sense. it's only at this point that the thing was built with a gcc which was itself linked with musl.
63f12b3a131da5d3…131da5d3…2022-05-09 22:22:03 <signpost> still bit-churn elsewhere, looks to involve order of linking and possibly optimization. fiddling with ld, etc.
bc1bc6ef63f12b3a…63f12b3a…2022-05-09 22:36:48 <signpost> perl jams timestamps all over the damned place.
f160aba5bc1bc6ef…bc1bc6ef…2022-05-09 23:00:23 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=RuWn << not too much churning. gcc is the bulk of it.
6dd8388abc416bb9…bc416bb9…2022-05-10 04:43:45 <signpost> they crapped timestamps into goddamned everything. and I've never seen so much autistic cute bullshit.
19f471aa6dd8388a…6dd8388a…2022-05-10 04:44:22 <signpost> "OOPS! You naughty creature! You didn't run Configure with sh!" << groaners everywhere
2c72397319f471aa…e26612c0…2022-05-10 10:55:06 <shinohai> Poor signpost, you deserve medal for wading through that liquishit.
5e6acd7d298fc1f5…19f471aa…2022-05-10 15:21:12 <signpost> shinohai: sitting down at a fresh burner machine, booting a usb stick, and calling my environment down into it from the pest swarm will be its own reward.
ff44cdee5e6acd7d…5e6acd7d…2022-05-10 15:21:54 <signpost> once there are wot signatures on the expected hash of a given build, this is entirely possible.
7d7540a2218e9ad2…6c5c3b5f…2022-05-10 15:23:21 <shinohai> I'm downloading pentacle to a shit phone w/ termux gonna see if it build there. (In 9+ hours when it finishes xD )
8435bb5c7d7540a2…218e9ad2…2022-05-10 15:26:21 <signpost> the debs are amd64, so you'll probably have to go get the arm versions
017cc5f58435bb5c…8435bb5c…2022-05-10 15:26:57 <signpost> entirely worthwhile. you can add arch to the debs folder path, $(uname -m)
43c75cc6017cc5f5…017cc5f5…2022-05-10 15:27:45 <signpost> lemme check my notes for how I faked out the Release file for the local repo
2ebbfc6f7f07b6d9…7f07b6d9…2022-05-10 15:30:20 <shinohai> I'm such a derp, I have sshfs set up, no need to have phone do the download. T_T
70dc3fc92ebbfc6f…43c75cc6…2022-05-10 15:36:34 <signpost> shinohai: dpkg-scanpackages created the debs/main/binary-amd64/Packages file, and iirc I used this guy's script to grunt out the Release file https://earthly.dev/blog/creating-and-hosting-your-own-deb-packages-and-apt-repo/
40b5b3fc70dc3fc9…70dc3fc9…2022-05-10 15:36:58 <signpost> you could start by just aiming debootstrap at a debian repo containing stretch, and do ^ later
7e898a3e57b65f33…ef9f74d9…2022-05-10 15:42:02 <shinohai> fwiw bash 5.1 builds flawlessly on pentacle if ya build without malloc
cd874b4c5bae1e56…5bae1e56…2022-05-10 15:45:41 <signpost> https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/main/bash/APKBUILD << looks like alpine also uses --without-bash-malloc
37daf6cacd874b4c…cd874b4c…2022-05-10 15:46:16 <signpost> "Use the Bash version of malloc in the directory lib/malloc. This is not the same malloc that appears in GNU libc, but an older version originally derived from the 4.2 BSD malloc. This malloc is very fast, but wastes some space on each allocation. This option is enabled by default." << pffft
1f061d0137daf6ca…37daf6ca…2022-05-10 15:46:49 <signpost> sounds like that flag would make it use musl's malloc, which seems desirable.
a10de1d7ca1921a0…7e898a3e…2022-05-10 15:51:20 <shinohai> signpost: yeah I discovered *after* building, would error with "cannot allocate 18 bytes (0 bytes allocated)" but disabling using above flag and runs just fine.
ecb09fd5cc0e8c7b…b17c1529…2022-05-13 16:15:07 <shinohai> Not bad here, just scouring net trying to make some cheap coinz xD
f4f3af11f4fc4125…a6c15472…2022-05-15 15:32:40 <awt> Sunday morning synths: http://share.alethepedia.com/music/vibing.mp3
901e958998ebeae5…98ebeae5…2022-05-15 16:39:12 <signpost> awt: what DAW do you use, or is that a hardware instrument?
49b8d9e2b51837bd…b51837bd…2022-05-15 16:46:40 signpost oughta get/make a cheat sheet poster for the thing. every time I sit back down to it I've forgotten the commands.
399224fa49e42a3f…5ebf2865…2022-05-15 16:54:22 <awt> signpost: never used a tracker. I'm looking at the UI scratching my head
4525be9d399224fa…49b8d9e2…2022-05-15 16:51:10 <signpost> text-editor tool for editing/playing step-sequenced music
5d68b4ad4525be9d…4525be9d…2022-05-15 16:52:40 <signpost> each line across is a step. you've got however many channels in columns, within those there are cols for note/effect/command
5d981fbd0f62279c…ce015d14…2022-05-15 19:51:28 <shinohai> signpost: didja ever finish that clisp pbuild?
cdc577f65d981fbd…5d981fbd…2022-05-15 19:51:55 shinohai still tinkering with x86 pentacle, haven't circled back to arm build yet.
144aa910400749ec…400749ec…2022-05-15 22:16:10 signpost just got in from drinking margaritas with neighbors. lemme see if I can get the /src dir rsync'd somewhere real quick.
04c49291144aa910…cdc577f6…2022-05-15 22:35:12 <shinohai> kk tyvm signpost (no particular rush if in Margaritaville)
4f272ef704c49291…49e42a3f…2022-05-15 22:43:12 asciilifeform spent all day on plumbing. (literal, not even electronic, lol)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 6e090532925e3f05b5491c1e569a103211505046084872c04e02bbffb264522e) prior to <signpost> ---
c1dabfb16e090532…6e090532…2022-05-16 21:17:50 <signpost> there's something of an essential delusion of man in this, maaaan.
8fddc175c1dabfb1…4f272ef7…2022-05-16 21:56:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: the need for a sane bootstrapper for lisps still gaping, aha
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 945aa95a9d1b7ee9b0e1be39ea44cf4c0ea0b9ab9c9250414e2326a80d3a4b0b) prior to <signpost> ---
a913be8e945aa95a…59c1649a…2022-05-18 17:48:06 <signpost> http://trinque.org/src/pentacle_genesis.vpatch << first draft of genesis.
0485ba4cc945fc11…8b61f398…2022-05-19 17:42:58 <signpost> do you gents have a preferred android device for one of the 1337 android distributions?
1e00fd360485ba4c…0485ba4c…2022-05-19 17:43:58 signpost working on online-codes encoder today, optimizing for experiments with blatta.
5336431e1c31f1bd…0d6b88db…2022-05-20 20:07:50 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 28 days 3 hours 47 minutes and 50 seconds
c4a9ba6c1e00fd36…1e00fd36…2022-05-19 17:45:32 <signpost> can currently decode about 28mbps stream inbound on one core. working with python's multiprocessing to hopefully get some parallelism going.
5b305c0ce3567c9b…04afe1da…2022-05-21 13:50:50 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 28 days 21 hours 30 minutes and 50 seconds
c394df4dc4a9ba6c…c945fc11…2022-05-19 17:46:10 <shinohai> I currently have trash TCL phone - I need to upgrade to something you can get root on.
773f5fe65b305c0c…d8bada59…2022-05-21 16:04:17 <awt> Afaik being peered with a station does not guarantee all messages from that station will not be displayed as hearsay.
676d1f0bc394df4d…c4a9ba6c…2022-05-19 17:49:48 signpost has seriously considered getting one of those chinese pocket computers instead.
b89847f0773f5fe6…773f5fe6…2022-05-21 16:06:22 <awt> Additionally, afaik no one with peering issues has yet attempted to debug using this method: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-03-04#1004117
2ad0aaea55e0ae2b…55e0ae2b…2022-05-21 16:08:56 <u0_a280> All good here, enjoying some sunshine today w/ the girls - last day before 5 days of rain. xD
cc2b22d015c25190…15c25190…2022-05-21 16:08:36 <awt> Also if you are seeing more hearsay messages from peers than you'd like, you can try adjusting embargo_interval_seconds upwards
1f4486e8b89847f0…f3740182…2022-05-21 16:01:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-03-04 20:50:30 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: Could eliminate timing by starting a config with only the affected peer.
ce6cb2302ad0aaea…2ad0aaea…2022-05-21 16:14:44 <u0_a280> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-21#1005703 << ya know, this makes sense to me now since might see the message from anoother peer first rather than the speaker in question.
5e663a47ce6cb230…ce6cb230…2022-05-21 16:14:57 <u0_a280> Guess it depends on latency, cosmic rays, etc.
eae00028ce6cb230…1f4486e8…2022-05-21 16:16:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-21 15:59:08 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: Afaik being peered with a station does not guarantee all messages from that station will not be displayed as hearsay.
a4365b1d0963613b…8fddc175…2022-05-19 17:53:22 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform has one here. still not engentoo'd tho so cannot comment re iron support
246f9a91e15a7e8b…3b6b56d6…2022-05-21 22:16:40 <asciilifeform> awt: aha, whole point of permitting hearsay bearing a peer's handle is that orig. may be lost or delayed ( > embargo_interval )
57d9663e2f8563ab…b93773d6…2022-05-19 18:00:38 <awt> signpost: haven't used an android for quite some time.
b67bd2f2246f9a91…246f9a91…2022-05-21 22:18:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-21#1005713 << asciilifeform still suspects bug(s) in the reorderer, rather than packet delays ( in asciilifeform's various experiments, measured ~0 serious packet delay or loss even across oceans )
a1f2927f57d9663e…a4365b1d…2022-05-19 17:53:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: (on factory winblows) fan blows like vacuum cleaner
69b3a045b67bd2f2…eae00028…2022-05-21 22:20:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-21 16:16:42 u0_a280[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-21#1005703 << ya know, this makes sense to me now since might see the message from anoother peer first rather than the speaker in question.
02214563a1f2927f…2f8563ab…2022-05-19 17:54:29 shinohai can't imagine it'd be *that* difficult to Gentoo one if so ....
ccb1e99f69b3a045…e15a7e8b…2022-05-21 22:37:17 <awt> asciilifeform: perhaps b00gs - but not very consistent b00gs
220b4efb02214563…a1f2927f…2022-05-19 17:55:05 <asciilifeform> shinohai: with lappy, headache is always in the details ('sleep mode' not works, or gpu fails to sleep and drains battery in coupla hr, etc)
fd81f011ccb1e99f…ccb1e99f…2022-05-21 22:41:07 <awt> just bulked up on rice, flour, and yeast. who tf knows what'll be on the shelves this fall
f08cf7ccb2d954f0…220b4efb…2022-05-19 17:55:31 <asciilifeform> keyboard also feels very cramped, but this aint a surprise
866538f7f08cf7cc…b2d954f0…2022-05-19 17:55:33 <signpost> ideal thing would be a low-power arm thing, just with a keyboard and proper linux
118d16fc8348d32c…8348d32c…2022-05-19 17:55:46 <asciilifeform> this box aint it tho, is 'clothes iron' i7
fad3c372118d16fc…02214563…2022-05-19 17:56:23 <shinohai> That's why I was surprised to see a pocket computer that *wasn't* arm based
6b2ba9acfad3c372…118d16fc…2022-05-19 17:56:41 <asciilifeform> shinohai: there were several (incl. this vendor) since mid-2010s
3f7452406b2ba9ac…6b2ba9ac…2022-05-19 17:57:08 <asciilifeform> 'pocket' is arguably misnomer, won't fit in shirt pocket without ripping. coat pocket maybe.
be61d5a03f745240…57d9663e…2022-05-19 18:04:38 <awt> signpost: last I checked it was obscenely difficult to find a raspberry pi + battery pack kit that could switch to wall power without being powered off
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d16469f623e8be2d7d32c545a8a0a1e75e1a706ccc35ffcf514d0783a57ee728) prior to <busybot> ---
57a395583c97ca9c…be61d5a0…2022-05-19 22:52:26 <awt> signpost: given the amount of inflation since 2019, I estimate the current price is getting quite close to the previous ATH in 2017.
c7d1966357a39558…2b75469d…2022-05-20 00:26:17 <asciilifeform> awt: a 'btc-usd vs TheRealInflation' plot (calculated in any of several ways) would be interesting imho
735061afea7ad78d…c3cd9a93…2023-02-21 20:10:16 <mod6> may have some old keys from you folks, need to update AT, etc.
9f4b3d18735061af…7a352ebb…2023-02-22 16:07:33 <awt> mod6: Looks like my station is not rebroadcasting you for some reason.
63591d94916d47b8…8d9e08c1…2022-05-20 13:16:18 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 27 days 20 hours 56 minutes and 17 seconds
140ff2ae9f4b3d18…9f4b3d18…2023-02-22 16:10:45 <awt> However after the above message I got a spate of getdata's from everyone and now your messages are in the log.
2b9d18b773fefd80…a1a3d40d…2023-02-22 21:02:00 <cgra> awt, my recent station operating hours, in UTC. also, i've currently got a 31 sec prod interval
d9a17ed12b9d18b7…2b9d18b7…2023-02-22 21:07:10 <cgra> would phf like to peer? my pgp key here (or can send to your key if your pw not forgotten anymore)
1da66dd2fc448df5…fc448df5…2022-05-20 20:33:07 shinohai suspects billymg is behind NAT and that pest port isn't open .....
fc44d362fc448df5…489c1be8…2022-05-20 20:33:47 <billymg> that worked, i have your new ip in the table now
49c56388851700fa…d6538b81…2022-06-19 16:24:11 <asciilifeform> ugh sumthing strange is happening with busybot ?
1453749c70511257…70511257…2022-05-20 23:14:58 <shinohai> When I nmap that IP, doesn't show up sadly, so no idea.
7d6ee690bdce31af…646a4c4f…2022-05-20 23:15:29 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-20#1005661 << can't say 100%, but i don't think that's it. see here
b3ad12cf7d6ee690…71a7970b…2022-05-20 23:15:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-20 20:35:01 shinohai[asciilifeform]: suspects billymg is behind NAT and that pest port isn't open .....
db3b27dfb3ad12cf…b3ad12cf…2022-05-20 23:15:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-04-16 21:25:19 billymg: asciilifeform: one station is on the rk in your rack, i haven't done anything special with the network config afaik
b7760806db3b27df…db3b27df…2022-05-20 23:15:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-04-16 21:25:32 asciilifeform: a then there not need to do anything re ports
32691201b7760806…7d6ee690…2022-05-20 23:16:02 <billymg> unless i somehow misconfigured something without knowing
77212b03c8f4e64a…c8f4e64a…2022-05-21 01:21:46 <shinohai> Oh hai asciilifeform ... just cannot figure out why billymg is only peer currently cannot connect with. Everyone else working fine on BOTH pest implementations.
ffb8f94104afe1da…c7d19663…2022-05-21 01:18:19 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-20#1005661 << is wat the nat drill is for. afaik not implemented anywhere yet tho
f3740182ffb8f941…b7760806…2022-05-21 01:20:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-20 20:35:01 shinohai[asciilifeform]: suspects billymg is behind NAT and that pest port isn't open .....
634b1092ed0f36de…ed0f36de…2022-05-21 01:24:18 <shinohai> But on my phone, u0_a280 shows you as 'shinohai' hearsay, so you are *known* peer it seems.
a560f32d6aade1a1…6aade1a1…2022-05-21 01:28:00 <shinohai> Weird, did it when you first joined,, then suddenly worx: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/PEST666.png
524e9186f076a000…f076a000…2022-05-21 22:34:57 <shinohai> Good idea awt .... girls actually encouraged me to do same, so I need to plan trip this coming week.
9537cfa01f2c6303…1f2c6303…2022-07-07 03:06:42 <signpost> incidentally your message appears to have caused a buttload of message replay on my end.
e80b5b78ab411566…78512532…2022-07-08 16:17:00 <billymg> the network's not far off from where the only "trb compat" nodes will be actual trb nodes, so would be nice to get more running
f1c81cfae80b5b78…e80b5b78…2022-07-08 16:17:39 <billymg> maybe even include a signed static binary on trb.org, for those who really just want point-and-click
8789e4d676d307ab…76d307ab…2022-05-21 22:36:50 <shinohai> Funny enough I did that last month, got 4 large bags of pipe tobacco.
cb838d3476d307ab…fd81f011…2022-05-21 22:43:21 <awt> now - where to procure large quantities of tobacco...
1ab9ea1b34013ab8…a3d5f60e…2022-07-08 16:18:42 <signpost> probably hold off on recommending pentacle as it's lacking a proper website and instructions yet.
8e97e97e1ab9ea1b…1ab9ea1b…2022-07-08 16:19:08 signpost plans to put some work into those in the next few wks.
18e907e142695d7e…42695d7e…2022-05-21 22:38:06 <shinohai> Not too difficult to procure here yet, but I order mine online since massive discount over buying at local shops.
8c9e84c718e907e1…18e907e1…2022-05-21 22:38:55 <shinohai> https://www.smokersoutletonline.com/ << dunno if they ship int'l
8817413f20e28a05…20e28a05…2022-07-08 17:26:32 <whaack> has been for a couple days, not sure if reported in any chan yet
888bf14f8c9e84c7…8c9e84c7…2022-05-21 22:40:36 <shinohai> oh ok for some reason I thought you were in CR too.
ad35ec54c5e234f1…c5e234f1…2022-05-21 22:57:30 <awt> lol they don't ship nicotine products to california
e70d8e1a62f2c6dd…ad35ec54…2022-05-22 01:18:35 <awt> asciilifeform: incidentally order buffer logic is here: http://btcbase.org/patches/9978-bugfixes/tree/blatta/lib/order_buffer.py
0189cd0ce70d8e1a…b67bd2f2…2022-05-22 01:29:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-05-21#1005733 << lol!! srsly?
2fbcfd8763ec1c95…37f6de96…2022-07-08 17:56:48 <asciilifeform> mod6, whaack : was still pointing to jurov's ancient copy. i'ma stand up a new one.
1ff0b4220189cd0c…69b3a045…2022-05-22 01:31:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-05-21 22:52:19 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: lol they don't ship nicotine products to california
805db4fbc0edb6b1…c0edb6b1…2022-05-23 15:05:30 <shinohai> I turned on weechat join/part filter - asciilifeform's station for some reason was filling page with such.
a310e71b7e11c330…107bbc1f…2022-05-23 15:08:29 <awt> looks like mod6 went down in a blaze of join/part spam
cc7194256fb62c31…63ec1c95…2022-07-08 17:46:40 <mod6> ahh, didn't realize he was still hosting the website.
8f1ee024b25bade2…0189cd0c…2022-05-23 19:16:50 <asciilifeform> oddly enuff, not seeing many join/parts from others on my end
e131b71b86279a6d…14642ca9…2022-07-08 18:06:06 <whaack> anyone have a guide for connecting asciilifeform's bot to pestnet? any extra steps necessary? about to attempt
feec649cb7fab5a9…b7fab5a9…2022-05-25 17:42:37 <shinohai> Dicking about with signpost 's pentacle here. Smalpest running A++ from it.
04fec5787d138126…7d138126…2022-07-08 18:21:53 <asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.com nao points to the new www; http://therealbitcoin.org and http://thebitcoin.foundation still propagating
ada1790d04fec578…04fec578…2022-07-08 18:26:13 <asciilifeform> mod6, whaack , et al: oughta work nao (or shortly, when propagates), plox to ping asciilifeform if not.
9dede4993cef8479…3cef8479…2022-05-25 17:50:52 <shinohai> bot is running latest blatta as station, so getting to test both implementations simultaneously. :D
51c543872566deee…abcd9ee4…2022-05-24 00:30:49 <signpost> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-30#1041990 << got redacted? I'd be interested.
e26b810151c54387…c0c728da…2023-02-18 04:08:57 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-06-30 mats: ill give you an invite to a private tracker for a song
43cc6256e9273eb0…e9273eb0…2022-07-08 18:36:33 asciilifeform removed the long-dead #ba link (afaik is wholly subsumed in existing logotrons)
db6e77b659e45829…59e45829…2022-05-26 14:23:22 <shinohai> I don't even see you in peers list, guessing because aforementioned AT entry changed.
ac4ccb6f43cc6256…43cc6256…2022-07-08 18:38:56 asciilifeform replaced ancient static noades list w/ link to billymg's thing
d4cfc6d8bc38af08…69def197…2022-05-25 02:23:57 signpost been working on the onlinecodes impl today. got the encoder and decoder moar optimized.
70981242d4cfc6d8…d4cfc6d8…2022-05-25 02:25:33 <signpost> last benchmark did 1sec encoding 10MB, 850ms decoding 10MB on single core.
3e4bd254daf54e78…e131b71b…2022-07-08 18:42:04 <whaack> asciilifeform: awesome, looks like source code browser is down atm
f08b5af270981242…70981242…2022-05-25 02:27:09 <signpost> conceivably could saturate a 1gbps connection soon if it parallelizes well on python. not sure, but giving it a decent try so I can test triggering transfers from blatta.
52cda32195aba304…daf54e78…2022-07-08 18:42:55 <asciilifeform> whaack: iirc shinohai currently has login to that box ( it's in asciilifeform's rack ), possibly can fix
6aea178bf135b1d2…bc38af08…2022-05-25 02:43:14 <awt> signpost: not bad at all (although I don't have much to compare to)
c4a6b0c3a21bf00b…a21bf00b…2022-05-27 19:20:11 <shinohai> This is a head-scratcher as I have you peered, though you aren't in peer list
dbdd65fc52cda321…52cda321…2022-07-08 18:43:03 <asciilifeform> otherwise we'll replace (high time anyways)
bc76a020c4a6b0c3…c4a6b0c3…2022-05-27 19:20:36 <shinohai> (Currently using smalpest since it displays peers properly)
117fed3dbc76a020…bc76a020…2022-05-27 19:24:22 <shinohai> I'm using blatta as busybot 's station, and haven't had any issues with 'em talking to one another.
373ec3c6117fed3d…dca3fce3…2022-05-27 19:27:33 <billymg> yeah, i just meant to rule out a bug for why some of my peerings don't work
cc6ab8bb117fed3d…117fed3d…2022-05-27 20:43:09 shinohai likes how bots are starting to populate pestnet ....
ed8e6fa5d6bf5b5f…f32dfbcb…2022-05-27 19:34:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=738166, v=99999, Romania - peers: 135 - last probed: 27m ago
0e34731bed8e6fa5…ed8e6fa5…2022-05-27 19:34:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=738166, v=99999, United States - peers: 86 - last probed: 27m ago
212390210e34731b…0e34731b…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=738166, v=99999, Canada - peers: 76 - last probed: 27m ago
51bd5d24d432a5fc…a2d93241…2022-05-28 14:49:15 <awt> billymg: may I suggest setting up a blatta station that only has the problematic peer in the AT?
b58c0a8321239021…21239021…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.191.220.241-8333 ][71.191.220.241] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=737931, v=99999, United States - peers: 54 - last probed: 27m ago
be36f71c51bd5d24…51bd5d24…2022-05-28 14:50:09 <awt> shinohai: what is the issue you're seeing with displaying peers in blatta?
144a5449b58c0a83…b58c0a83…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=738166, v=70001, United States - peers: 48 - last probed: 27m ago
54911303144a5449…144a5449…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=738010, v=99999, United States - peers: 48 - last probed: 27m ago
e577d5a954911303…54911303…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=738165, v=88888, France - peers: 45 - last probed: 27m ago
d6c2e533e577d5a9…e577d5a9…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=738035, v=99999, United States - peers: 33 - last probed: 27m ago
e00eca66d6c2e533…d6c2e533…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=738161, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 31 - last probed: 27m ago
f9720bbfe00eca66…e00eca66…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=671433, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 26 - last probed: 25m ago
138b4f08f9720bbf…f9720bbf…2022-05-27 19:34:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=738035, v=99999, United States - peers: 18 - last probed: 27m ago
ce67b3391e9d9d44…1e9d9d44…2022-05-28 15:32:37 <billymg> most of the time when i'm "using colones" i'm paying someone online, and it's converted from dollars to colones at the time of the transaction
545d2eca749e64b9…749e64b9…2022-06-06 16:24:12 <asciilifeform> shinohai: does one currently have to peer directly with the bot to make a query?
49cc267afa8b3496…fa8b3496…2022-05-28 15:39:08 <awt> I usually buy a bunch of colones for a trip because even if I use dollars they give you the change back in colones.
92c930c2a36eae7d…85903df0…2022-06-06 16:28:34 <shinohai> Nah it *should* work, might be a bit slow. (Has worked fine testing from u0_a280 station which isn't peered to bot directly).
0e4c6f4c5909ce36…5909ce36…2022-05-28 15:33:55 <billymg> my groundskeeper was talking about how expensive gas is, i asked him if he had a dollar account and he said no
a3db26b2970751f5…970751f5…2022-05-28 15:34:23 <billymg> it's totally seamless when you use a debit card or do an online transfer, it just converts to colones automatically
50562510a3db26b2…49cc267a…2022-05-28 15:40:05 <awt> yeah I keep almost zero colones in my bank account
fef252e450562510…a3db26b2…2022-05-28 15:34:38 <billymg> idk why more people here don't have dollar denominated accounts. possibly national pride
0e2c5bd3fef252e4…fef252e4…2022-05-28 15:35:10 <billymg> yeah, i don't even have a colones denominated account here
5f1675e074c1f62f…50562510…2022-05-28 15:41:04 <awt> For my next lease I'm thinking about renting a place in Guanacaste
98d1ad245f1675e0…5f1675e0…2022-05-28 15:41:28 <awt> Want to get some place that's up high but close to the beach
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 961ccf59870368b5dfe203721f1d0d4ca05e8a2fea5e35085b4ac21f882adc68) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ceebbbaaaf890c37f94673b6525369dc7fd85eee64221ea44522684d9a909f46) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 869f14387bfed8047d982261e2c2a2ee4076b0f0916af8caa29c9b1c6cfb4095) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
2e2b30e9869f1438…869f1438…2022-05-27 19:05:18 <asciilifeform> iirc theoretically 1TB, but difficult to get the requisite sticks
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2bf083e5a0a36ec0b892836b19e6af59fe97efc9962b85ce28847a85bdb9dbb3) prior to <crawlerbot> ---
148da2652bf083e5…2bf083e5…2022-05-27 19:22:13 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 5; Germany: 4; United Kingdom: 3; Romania: 3; Russia: 3; Singapore: 2; Ukraine: 1; Australia: 1; Italy: 1; Mexico: 1; United Arab Emirates: 1; Poland: 1; South Africa: 1; France: 1; Sweden: 1; Chile: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
bd4a70ef148da265…148da265…2022-05-27 19:22:13 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 6; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1;
f32dfbcbdfc0f674…bd4a70ef…2022-05-27 19:22:34 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 13m ago; last restart: 13m ago
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 6bfba2c733622663dc3323c0799fd1f358986979b3202d4400a313fb5cab43c4) prior to <awt> ---
329a798a6bfba2c7…98d1ad24…2022-05-28 15:42:03 <awt> yeah would have to be around there. Honestly like Play Flamingo better than Coco
407537e2d9acf332…a04d56ac…2022-05-28 15:47:05 <billymg> yeah, started raining heavily a few days ago
5868bb40407537e2…407537e2…2022-05-28 15:47:54 <billymg> but usually just in the late afternoon and middle of the night
397b88b08ee55dbf…8ee55dbf…2022-05-28 15:50:31 <billymg> oh yeah, did you know they charge sales tax on rent here? and not just short term
990f36ff8ee55dbf…f89209b7…2022-06-09 20:29:26 <PeterL> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=MyWI << I have only 7 peers, but am seeing as high as 17 on the hearsay counter?
2aa94555d69538dc…d69538dc…2022-05-28 15:52:02 <billymg> so if you increase someone's rent from 649k to 651k you're actually increasing it to 735k lol
32a1ee1d8384930b…b65cedf7…2022-06-09 23:47:33 <signpost> interesting. I connected weechat to deedbot's pest node, and speaking as deedbot, my messages always reach signpost.
1235ce712aa94555…2aa94555…2022-05-28 15:52:50 <billymg> also, once again, a law that probably seemed "reasonable" when it passed is getting less and less reasonable as inflation does its thing
ae9705b71235ce71…1235ce71…2022-05-28 15:53:09 <billymg> like $10k reporting limit for usd passed in the 70s
32e1016531ee6bec…31ee6bec…2022-06-09 23:47:56 <signpost> when speaking as signpost, deedbot does not always get the message, or it's slow.
d6ab2c8eae9705b7…d9acf332…2022-05-28 15:59:34 <awt> I had no idea. Current rent is below that threshold but previously was not and didn't have to pay any tax.
7f12449432e10165…32e10165…2022-06-09 23:48:05 <signpost> curious if there's something going on with the firewall.
b41481fcd6ab2c8e…ae9705b7…2022-05-28 15:54:18 <billymg> sometimes landlords just include it in the rent
359bac527f124494…262e246b…2022-06-10 00:00:03 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006604 << I have seen that before - thought I fixed it but I guess not
9d91605f359bac52…3638da36…2022-06-09 23:53:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 20:32:48 PeterL[billymg]: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=MyWI << I have only 7 peers, but am seeing as high as 17 on the hearsay counter?
d404bbe5ffef00dc…ffef00dc…2022-05-28 15:54:54 <billymg> or if there's no paperwork maybe not enforceable?
be2966379d91605f…359bac52…2022-06-10 00:02:20 <awt> signpost: when viewing the debug logs of both stations you can see when messages go out and come in.
a6a6761abe296637…be296637…2022-06-10 00:04:04 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006602 << yes but currently your station won't send GETDATA requests until it gets another message with a broken chain
c7aec0c74ce8d730…4ce8d730…2022-05-28 15:55:38 <billymg> i had no idea either until i was negotiating the renewal of the flamingo place and they mentioned tax. i was like lolwtf there's no tax on rent
5256e689a6a6761a…9d91605f…2022-06-09 23:57:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 20:15:21 PeterL[asciilifeform]: I just thought of something, does blatta have a concept of wether messages have been delivered or not? I mean, if I have blatta running, and I am not connected to it, and somebody sends me a message, does it hold onto that until I join later?
50678e7b5256e689…7f124494…2022-06-09 23:56:06 signpost trying with a clean deeb, might have crud in there from the prior attempt.
a94bcdd850678e7b…a8ce09d7…2022-06-10 00:01:58 shinohai has similar issue as signpost until he remembered he quite stupidly forgot to add peering key between himself and bot.
b9035804964fdbdf…ec0e426f…2022-06-10 14:02:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: can folx peer directly w/ deedbot ?
3d2f1b3931ebec17…b9035804…2022-06-10 15:45:44 <asciilifeform> imho ideally bots oughta be well-connected, just like 'human' stations
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ab85ace5a776dc33d6612abf607468ab7a4eca745949713500ee8223921c69b9) prior to <awt> ---
aa628fedab85ace5…0c2bb9d7…2022-05-30 18:07:10 <awt> "The other method of human thought is that of Causality. This method is inwardly compulsory in dealing with inorganic problems of technics, mechanics, engineerng, systematic natural philosophy. It finds the limits of its efficacy there, however, and is grotesque when appllied to Life. It would tell us that youth is the
ffb2d1efaa628fed…aa628fed…2022-05-30 18:07:12 <awt> flower, the caterpillar the cause of the butterfly." -from Imperium by Yockey. Seems interesting in the context of working from causes.
f87df5a0ffb2d1ef…d432a5fc…2022-05-30 18:00:45 asciilifeform tried reading subj decade+ ago, fell asleep
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 766411d3ef112cc54ffc44fb7dd8e82c8ea43dbef0460cf1729888d033e0eb40) prior to <awt> ---
975fafaf766411d3…8a044d52…2022-05-30 18:15:35 <awt> Caught returning to US from the Eastern Bloc with multiple passports. Took the pill in a cell, I think, yeah.
9904d0af975fafaf…f87df5a0…2022-05-30 18:13:18 <asciilifeform> 1337 w4r3z for the interested. imho snoar.
58b39f119904d0af…975fafaf…2022-05-30 18:23:03 <awt> I barely started the book, but I found interesting the formulation of a civilization as having a soul and being a living thing. This occurs to most, I think, but I'd never seen anyone formally discuss it.
507d4af8a541ce45…a541ce45…2022-05-30 18:24:05 <awt> Attempted to listen to a Spengler book on the plane but literally snoared
8117af06507d4af8…22d7142f…2022-05-30 18:17:11 asciilifeform tried various 'fascist classics', j.evola, etc. -- guaranteed sleep
2fc1e6c28117af06…8117af06…2022-05-30 18:18:12 <asciilifeform> from 'outside' pov, reads similarly to e.g. the 'catholic apologists' -- can see how they stroked one another's cocks, but the worx dun say much to a 'civilian'
8840ddc32fc1e6c2…2fc1e6c2…2022-05-30 18:21:44 <asciilifeform> d00d had the 'fortune' to live in the tail end of the period when lizards thought that 'ideas matter'. so, poisoned, and nao archaeologists try to make sense of his spew...
41f912128840ddc3…8840ddc3…2022-05-30 18:22:39 <asciilifeform> if he lived today, would've been simply anuther redditus.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2d99e5d7d0f325d99c2e45a55569e92b91963c3fea3b3cd60555045aa86f3d1d) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
dcce96d62d99e5d7…ec5862be…2022-05-30 18:27:30 <asciilifeform> even before end of ww2, was rather obv. that totalitarian reichs will colonize all of planet3, for objective techno-economic reasons
6331b6361dbd229b…1dbd229b…2022-05-30 18:40:50 <awt> There is a bright side to mass immigration from the global south
dea6a0196331b636…dcce96d6…2022-05-30 18:48:28 <asciilifeform> the solider part of the argument concerned airplane, rather than nuke
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 36dfd771a9c7453c3fe560f503ac62a3b0e848064358f2cb022e9de4b0cfb761) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
2604481c2c0539ad…5d753f74…2022-05-30 21:47:12 <billymg> ohh, nm, actually not supposed to, because it's from asciilifeform's logger
08eae3e7ac738b9d…2604481c…2022-05-30 21:47:36 <billymg> e.g. http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-24#1088101 should work
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 9576703e3525a3c8ff826a392958c44769116869dc7a395e682af4396e4f50c7) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
a52b1fdc9576703e…ac738b9d…2022-05-30 21:46:03 <asciilifeform> yea, will echo as soon as asciilifeform gets around to plugging own logotron into pestnet
382315fba52b1fdc…08eae3e7…2022-05-30 21:49:10 <billymg> asciilifeform: i'll start publishing dumps of my logs soon too, with a cron job like you do on nosuchlabs.com, so you'll be able to grab the pest history if you want
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 117c45e723f86471b03924e730560b9a74c6809f42d6309c6f60a25399711de6) prior to <billymg> ---
d8e949c70003a44e…0003a44e…2022-06-01 23:39:05 <shinohai> My previous lappy was an HP, battery swelled in little over a year of use. Simply tossed it since for around a hundy more than the battery cost I could simply buy new lappy.
1c1d4980d8e949c7…ba844417…2022-06-02 01:20:30 <awt> https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-employee-nft-marketplace-charged-first-ever-digital-asset-insider-trading-scheme
853e155f6c3864a6…6c3864a6…2022-06-02 14:10:51 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-01#1005975 << 2009 - 2020
c4fd14cb916649b9…853e155f…2022-06-02 14:18:27 <awt> I say bottom was in at 26k. If I'm wrong I'll implement Pest in Javascript.
d1720d7fc4fd14cb…c4fd14cb…2022-06-02 14:22:37 <awt> jonsykkel: I've been hearing rumors that Swedes are extremely reluctant to feed their guests (if they ever have them). Have you also heard this?
8d9d977ed01855e8…f3750501…2022-06-02 15:01:53 <awt> Should make it worse: IE6 compatibility required
b481fc658d9d977e…d042f06a…2022-06-02 14:56:00 <billymg> i was actually going to write my pest client in JS
1d4908019d9b227f…9d9b227f…2022-06-03 14:20:50 <shinohai> Really digging awt's latest blatta fix, makes the thing feel more civilized.
82478a661d490801…1d490801…2022-06-03 14:21:46 <shinohai> asciilifeform: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9977-presence-on-join.vpatch
8dec0f7182478a66…82478a66…2022-06-03 14:23:57 <shinohai> Gotta update bot station this weekend and may switch my main station to it. Using the "smartphone" as testbed for new vpatches currently.
c239c8c88dec0f71…8dec0f71…2022-06-04 15:40:58 <shinohai> I love the smell of mETHtard rekt in the morning: https://archive.ph/MbKKa
99cf6668e26e41cd…7aa63954…2022-06-03 23:49:00 <billymg> awt: question about the lsi raid card in your supermicro server. did you have to do anything special to get into its config menu at boot? i can't seem to get the "type ctrl-c to configure" message to appear. however, once booted into the OS (gentoo live usb), `lspci` shows the card
c4378ff1c239c8c8…728e554b…2022-06-04 15:45:07 <asciilifeform> '$2.7 million in NFTs.' etc << see also e.g.
4c5214bcc239c8c8…c239c8c8…2022-06-04 16:13:59 <shinohai> Same shit happened in April, yet these peeps always think "rUnNiNg A wAlLeT aS a WeB eXtEnSiOn Is FiNe!"
fe6ddb934c5214bc…c2e2f0f6…2022-06-04 16:23:05 <billymg> ok, so plugged into another machine the LSI/3ware boot message appears
bd645966637dee5d…637dee5d…2022-06-03 23:50:25 <billymg> the fact that lspci lists it indicates that the PCI slot is at least active and the system is able to communicate with the card
8900ffb4fe6ddb93…fe6ddb93…2022-06-04 16:24:31 <billymg> so i guess that means it's a configuration issue, bios issue (that could maybe be solved by flashing the latest bios version), or a hardware issue with the PCI slot or riser
401f6d510d321c64…0d321c64…2022-06-04 21:11:17 <shinohai> US Military twitter accounts full of same lulz, up to and including the Marines.
59c33849bd645966…bd645966…2022-06-03 23:56:10 billymg not yet tried plugging the card into another machine, but that is next on the debug list
4919bcf68900ffb4…8900ffb4…2022-06-04 16:28:22 <billymg> but yeah, the card appears to work fine, can press 'alt 3' to enter the bios config screen for the raid card
d6e8a7b159c33849…4bd88777…2022-06-04 05:05:00 <asciilifeform> billymg: you gotta set, in bios setup, pcie to '8x' mode.
413405d64919bcf6…4919bcf6…2022-06-04 16:29:12 <billymg> didn't bother connecting any drives, but no reason to believe it wouldn't work. on the supermicro, during boot, never saw any message from the card at all
e74f17fd00bf2ab5…c4378ff1…2022-06-05 04:46:04 <asciilifeform> billymg: 'trolling' is arguably the point. i.e. point of 'pedereich' flag waving proudly is same as point of ye olde swastica in '30s ralleys
a5c02397d6e8a7b1…d6e8a7b1…2022-06-04 05:05:18 <asciilifeform> billymg: the 8x/16x autodetect is afaik b0rken on all supermicro boards.
e815a2b5413405d6…e26e41cd…2022-06-04 16:58:14 <awt> billymg: no recollection of any bios changes to get the 3ware card working
45d9893de74f17fd…e74f17fd…2022-06-05 04:46:39 <asciilifeform> 'see who objects' 'will have problems'
67438d52a5c02397…a5c02397…2022-06-04 05:05:34 <asciilifeform> also set optionrom to 'expansions 1st'
6cedc4ae67438d52…67438d52…2022-06-04 05:05:45 <asciilifeform> then will get the raid menu and bootable.
869873c1f0f8a4ca…f0f8a4ca…2022-06-04 16:53:06 <billymg> if it's 3.5c i'll go ahead and do the reflash
de61bcf06ddb1333…6ddb1333…2022-06-05 04:49:27 asciilifeform found local park 'decorated' w/ little flags yest.
e2be101b6cedc4ae…6cedc4ae…2022-06-04 05:06:42 asciilifeform learned this empirically, laboriously, in piz cage
fecfeec8869873c1…e815a2b5…2022-06-04 16:59:24 <awt> billymg: not sure how to get that without rebooting
83c8a9c3de61bcf0…00bf2ab5…2022-06-05 14:06:11 <billymg> asciilifeform: yup, totally. intent is to get a reaction from the noncompliant
fea796b283c8a9c3…4b41e2f2…2022-06-05 14:06:13 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-25#1088262 << reich dispensed with all traditional pretenses of anyffin resembling objective stats gathering, publication of negatives, etc. -- not even necessarily because 'ohnoez, mega-death from dud vax' but, likely, simply to
c08d8341c71559ac…c71559ac…2022-06-04 17:08:06 <awt> billymg: I suspect it's going to take even longer to get your visa with all the ransomeware attacks
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain dfed0a9e881c7811c8d4950461e9392667ee86c1592031ac237d87dea0119944) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ce3791dd4219ab4f7d3efc0746e1c5fac2a8da09866598060d954a326a03af3c) prior to <awt> ---
7a0cebe9ce3791dd…6a1977f2…2022-06-01 18:44:11 <awt> Interesting fed response to Russia and China being cut off from the US.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain f3e7adf0922e5ad3bc97bb826c7e28860563032e632047a9997a3c8e5e8d4f35) prior to <awt> ---
a3b4bed7f3e7adf0…7a0cebe9…2022-06-01 19:11:45 <awt> Real estate perhaps starting to turn. We shall see.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7457ecb8862b2d9d23dcdcfb5b32f9383ddb74cdd741541e97ed90bfb50dbdc7) prior to <awt> ---
08876de97457ecb8…a3b4bed7…2022-06-01 22:29:00 <awt> billymg: No recent news. But not clear raising interest rates will help with inflation caused by deglobalization.
d11c348d08876de9…b0d1cd58…2022-06-01 22:25:39 <billymg> awt: right, what does raising interest rates do in the face of russia and china dumping dollars
e7db299ad11c348d…08876de9…2022-06-01 22:33:43 <awt> Also - more expensive to make antibiotics in North/South America, Cars, Electronics, etc.
2934df8fe7db299a…d11c348d…2022-06-01 22:28:56 <billymg> this is anecdotal, but those new macbook pros are unobtainium right now
e61dab4654cd001c…00b85558…2022-06-01 22:39:29 <billymg> with shipping times into august already, for the non-customized version
7dde755ce61dab46…54cd001c…2022-06-01 22:47:25 awt went through episode in which old mbpro battery swelled - "repair" took a month, mbpro with sufficient horsepower unavailable for weeks.
6ecf98d07dde755c…e61dab46…2022-06-01 22:43:43 <billymg> an excerpt from a recent dmitry orlov article
63dfac536ecf98d0…6ecf98d0…2022-06-01 22:44:17 <billymg> "So sorry, problem at container port, must wait for product!"
a983308f63dfac53…63dfac53…2022-06-01 22:45:51 <billymg> i wonder if when CPI is calculated they use MSRP or the price you pay scalpers to actually get the thing you want
2dc329b1a983308f…7dde755c…2022-06-01 22:58:11 <awt> It's hard to believe they even released the fake 8.5% number
93b98dd22dc329b1…739d46ec…2022-06-01 22:59:11 <asciilifeform> billymg: after 2 'official' batteries, started doing'em w/ own hands, turns out only takes hr or so
f51f866eb30a890e…b30a890e…2022-06-01 23:00:32 <asciilifeform> ( need eye dropper & a few ml of 99+% ethyl , and new battery naturally )
ba8444175b5cef68…2dc329b1…2022-06-01 23:10:01 <awt> asciilifeform: neat. may give it a shot next time. currently only use one for music production.
56d130b2ba844417…5b5cef68…2022-06-01 23:08:25 <asciilifeform> awt: you gotta do it before it balloons to the pt where keyboard bends/breaks tho (crapple's repair depot included the latter , but afaik there's nowhere you can readily buy that part)
d042f06a56d130b2…a983308f…2022-06-01 23:25:54 <billymg> asciilifeform: i did an iphone battery replacement myself once, wasn't bad. believe it or not my current 10yr old macbook pro battery not yet dead
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ae743d5685fe6efc69d084923f779f309f8e9030dad1918e6ab5ac6ebd5537c4) prior to <awt> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2f32015eb28a1fdec5855da1abb97bcd4a5166799e6e28814d27aade64c44682) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
5481c2232f32015e…56d130b2…2022-06-02 17:09:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006018 << at some pt the 'institutional' moneys, hypothetically, will gtfo, and what remains would be the 'genuine' exch rate
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 99702a80c4a54efe8339d17c48c9166d7efea57707faed1be4a7202d996e8e62) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
73d8edac99702a80…5481c223…2022-06-02 17:40:43 <asciilifeform> ... objective of the 'institutional' scum is simple as a hammer: 1) pump it up, so that 1a) btc-usd dun track actual-inflation 1b) can dump it periodically, inducing morons (esp. of the 'leveraged' variety) to panic sell 2) let'em load up on the cheap, after each such panic.
9f207fdd73d8edac…73d8edac…2022-06-02 17:41:55 <asciilifeform> there's likely a 3) keep up volatility to maximally inhbit honest commerce.
606f54a25a204934…2e0ed463…2022-06-02 17:45:35 <billymg> actual commerce in btc also punished by threat of jail if you're not "licensed"
93b49b8a606f54a2…5a204934…2022-06-02 17:44:00 <asciilifeform> billymg: wotless commerce at any rate.
73f13129ef46847a…ef46847a…2022-06-02 17:46:56 <asciilifeform> hawala scales as much as anyone could want.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 357e4921d3d3c9bb8014912ebf820c3b1f3425dafa9d9cd7b07b29cdceaddb35) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
7088d9a5357e4921…d88bc71c…2022-06-02 17:48:57 <asciilifeform> bitbot: l2/l3 from a dunbaristic wot is large enuff
93831c04328f5baf…326c6941…2022-06-02 17:51:38 <billymg> ah, yeah, if you include l2 and l3 that's true
4a53b091ddd69dc6…328f5baf…2022-06-02 17:50:08 <asciilifeform> nor are you stuck dealing with'em directly. hypothetically, if yer trafficing plutonium, mediate through l1.
2ec197ad4a53b091…8d443337…2022-06-02 17:59:01 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006022 << there is nowhere to gtfo to. Also this is the best environment for btc we've yet seen.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 8af5aa235c39e3d647d9c1316d81b6e86c80f785d367053fca492bb978caaa7d) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
5fba3db68af5aa23…4a53b091…2022-06-02 17:51:07 <asciilifeform> from one pov, is a hilarious twist on the usg newspeak 'know yer customer'. if you ~actually~ 'know yer customer`, yer moar or less impenetrable to reich.
3d9a3e9c5fba3db6…ddd69dc6…2022-06-02 17:53:35 <billymg> asciilifeform: heh, makes for a good meme opportunity
faf399e85fba3db6…8624c7ef…2023-02-18 04:06:25 <signpost> interesting thing in my case is that asciilifeform has an active peering with deedbot, but not me, and same ip:port in both ATs
df63fb555fba3db6…e26b8101…2023-02-18 04:10:47 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-09 asciilifeform: the banishment of 'institutional' scum from btcism can't happen soon enuff.
373e9f2fdf63fb55…df63fb55…2023-02-18 04:10:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-11 asciilifeform: actual commerce, i.e. the kind where you MAKE things, sell'em, do actual services for people, it is -- punished -- by the volatility
491439e4373e9f2f…373e9f2f…2023-02-18 04:10:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 asciilifeform: ( usg tradition moar or less ~requires~ a 'controlled buy', i.e. executed by a dedicated stoolie, to convict a contrabandist. and not merely 'd00d admitted on his www that he once sold a bitcoin'. e.g. mp admitted that he once killed and ate a man, but observe that no one tried to
5478c922263e439d…5fba3db6…2022-06-02 17:52:58 <asciilifeform> would hasten to add tho, that what folx are jailed for in the reich aint contrabandism per se, but 'being rich without a license'. if yer conspicuously loaded and it was simply because found buried treasure, some article in penal code will be found for you.
51aa475c491439e4…491439e4…2023-02-18 04:10:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-14 asciilifeform: i.e. you go to yer l1 hawaladar.
6872e639e54080b5…26c88635…2023-02-18 04:21:34 <crtdaydreams> signpost: does deedbot run on homeserver or is it hosted elsewhere?
5041491851aa475c…d9a17ed1…2023-02-23 07:42:19 <cgra> asciilifeform, re potentially permanently broken pest chains mixed with temporarily broken ones: would an exponential backoff getdata retry schedule make sense?
6c353dfe818b7e1d…5478c922…2022-06-02 17:55:31 <asciilifeform> iirc mp had a piece re subj. is simple predator-prey relationship, lizards predate on uppity plebes who 'think they're somebodies' simply because came across some dough somewhere.
4741dc5450414918…010a22bb…2023-02-23 13:51:46 <lobbes> odd, I'm not seeing mod6 broadcasts in my station logs yet. Possibly due to my running an older v9971 blatta but idk
100b037a6c353dfe…6c353dfe…2022-06-02 17:55:58 <asciilifeform> starting with 50+% taxation (usa) and ending with confiscations on trumped-up charges etc
86a9d22fedcf1179…edcf1179…2023-02-18 07:14:17 <crtdaydreams> likely on our end if ascii can talk with dulapbot
a2e88e11100b037a…2ec197ad…2022-06-02 18:04:21 <awt> asciilifeform: there is a case to be made that btc won't moon moon until enough lizards have their fill.
01d1310c86a9d22f…761b69bd…2023-02-18 16:20:27 <awt> cgra et al.: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UXKZ << patch to send ac only on launch/new key/address change for review
a5ffb811a2e88e11…100b037a…2022-06-02 17:57:21 <asciilifeform> awt: there's more than one variant of 'moon', and not all possible 'moons' are a good time arguably
955047b3eab02c46…4741dc54…2023-02-23 17:40:21 <lobbes> ty asciilifeform. I've been engaged on other fronts, so I'm a bit behind the logs. I apologize in advance to any peers if my station is emitting any strange. I gotta spend some time tonight re-reading the spec and whatnot
74bb56f401d1310c…01d1310c…2023-02-18 16:27:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023375 << i'd check the antecedants to the missing packets, because if they are from my client, then they are lost FOREVER
286857c1a5ffb811…818b7e1d…2022-06-02 18:00:00 <billymg> awt: that's what seems most likely to me. i think we're more or less at the bottom, maybe with some brief dips to the low 20s, but otherwise range here for another 3-5 months
bfa47c32955047b3…eab02c46…2023-02-23 17:51:09 <asciilifeform> lobbes: 0xfa pre-draft spec here, if you haven't seen yet.
b75ecddb74bb56f4…5c56c94f…2023-02-18 16:28:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 06:29:41 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: when looking, found out that there were ~800 unresolved chain hashes in my db. after some manual getdata flood at my peers i ended up with ~10k (doubling the total) more messages and unresolved chain hashes are now down to 12. these 12 won't budge
ab807d69286857c1…286857c1…2022-06-02 18:00:41 <billymg> too cheap and plebs can afford to load up, current range seems like maximum pain plus ideal for lizards (and no one else) to meaningfully load up
53afc3cfbfa47c32…bfa47c32…2023-02-23 17:51:45 <asciilifeform> lobbes: ftr there's a # of threads where asciilifeform concluded '... and oughta amend spec' but not did this yet.
747fabdcb75ecddb…74bb56f4…2023-02-18 16:28:38 <phf> i'm pretty sure i've also sent at least one or two malformed packets, where the netchain or self-chain or both would've been some totally random sequence
a8d18e2bab807d69…a2e88e11…2022-06-02 18:08:21 <awt> billymg: IMO 22-23k would be a dip BELOW the 2017 ath in real terms which would be unprecedented. Certainly doesn't mean it's not possible.
e977d53e747fabdc…747fabdc…2023-02-18 16:30:24 <phf> it's either that, or having packet loss before i have a working getdata: packet A is lost, packet B goes out, counterparty getdata's A, but the client doesn't respond.
b11f7263a8d18e2b…ab807d69…2022-06-02 18:02:25 <billymg> asciilifeform: bitcoin has grown many zeros already in the time that sandwich only doubled
ff832434b11f7263…b11f7263…2022-06-02 18:04:52 <billymg> awt: yeah, think if it gets that low it would be very brief, like the march 2020 covid dip
d6a9e83762bcbac7…62bcbac7…2023-02-23 18:16:55 <phf> i had a moment of clarity last night, and in between realizing that i've probably already lived longer, than i have left to live, i had a sudden flash of recollection and remembered my gpg password
3146e39c546eb2f5…546eb2f5…2023-02-18 16:31:59 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023376 << that's some strange dulapbot bug, because the messages in question are not in pest logs
1435e45fd6a9e837…d6a9e837…2023-02-23 18:17:59 <phf> monsegnor asciilifeform, signpost, cgra and any other willing parties please send me peering information for your respective stations
fbed2f853146e39c…b75ecddb…2023-02-18 16:33:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 06:32:31 dulapbot[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: (trilema) 2016-09-16 phf: in case anyone thinks that commercial lisp vendors are any good, i'm getting completely random failed to allocate errors on lispworks
5564f5281435e45f…1435e45f…2023-02-23 18:20:52 <phf> i also have crtdaydreams in my station list, but that one also never connected, which probably means it's 3 month old key
5518e914fbed2f85…3146e39c…2023-02-18 16:32:24 <phf> or are they? they are not in bitdash history anyway
5e8639cb5564f528…50414918…2023-02-23 18:24:55 <cgra> phf, peering info for you. ip address is outdated
42ce67205518e914…5518e914…2023-02-18 16:33:12 <phf> but for the rescind the point above, i figured out the random to allocate errors and it was my own doing
7e081d0d5e8639cb…5564f528…2023-02-23 18:38:03 <phf> ok, cool, so you're theoretically broadcasting addresscast for me?
f95a81baa98f2b4a…f8755530…2023-02-18 16:39:25 <asciilifeform> phf: it's likely a bug in the dulapbot+blatta ensemble, i.e. the former fires when sees a replay just the same as if realtime msg.
8d3287c459a994ec…59a994ec…2023-02-18 16:40:09 <asciilifeform> for that matter, this is all over the dulapbot #p log, elsewhere.
6f7f1df08d3287c4…8d3287c4…2023-02-18 16:42:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023634 << was asciilifeform's 1st guess, but wonder what accounts for the others
7d21efea6f7f1df0…fbed2f85…2023-02-18 16:43:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 11:28:46 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023375 << i'd check the antecedants to the missing packets, because if they are from my client, then they are lost FOREVER
9692f8e07d21efea…7d21efea…2023-02-18 16:43:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 15:56:48 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: cgra: some of these are likely phf's proto station with the hand-cranked packet shooter. but the rest -- mystery
b0b3a8dc9692f8e0…a98f2b4a…2023-02-18 16:43:28 <phf> a surprisingly small number (i got to that point in log)
38f5c01723ef84b4…35db53f6…2023-02-23 18:42:55 <phf> billymg, asciilifeform can you guys update your respective loggers with awt's recent multiline patch?
4eecee7438f5c017…38f5c017…2023-02-23 18:45:57 <phf> jonsykkel, you're running your own, c based client, right?
97d6a1316ffd16cf…9692f8e0…2023-02-18 16:45:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-16 15:55:04 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-16#1023381 << here, and somehow it's 13 now
3a6c93b74eecee74…5e8639cb…2023-02-23 18:46:17 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-23#1024080 << yeah. do we have common peers? awt,billymg,dulapbot,jonsykkel,lobbes,signpst
f023973a97d6a131…b0b3a8dc…2023-02-18 16:47:22 <phf> for how small that number is, almost a shame that it's there at all :>
a94334003a6c93b7…522f7c9c…2023-02-23 18:47:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-23 13:39:24 phf[awt]: ok, cool, so you're theoretically broadcasting addresscast for me?
b36f530db3df33e4…f023973a…2023-02-18 16:48:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023443 << afaik thunderbolt 4 machines https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736 support up to 4 external monitors
0b8e44a3168207fd…4eecee74…2023-02-23 18:47:28 <phf> jonsykkel, cool, i'm getting prod requests from you, that nobody else asked for yet, so i'm going to implement that next
bcedda6cb36f530d…97d6a131…2023-02-18 16:49:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 11:45:51 asciilifeform[4]: phf ( or any other folx who operate crapple irons ) -- know whether crapple sells a box that can drive 3 'displayport' outputs ?
10a7b8e6bcedda6c…b36f530d…2023-02-18 16:48:57 <phf> but then as far as i understand question becomes can the internal gpu drive the total surface space of those monitors? i'm not quite sure how it works
d85b416bbdb65404…0b8e44a3…2023-02-23 18:49:43 <phf> cgra, yeah, we got a bunch, but come to think of it nobody but theoretically only awt (and jonsykkel?) will support addresscast rebroadcast
f7055c4a10a7b8e6…b3df33e4…2023-02-18 16:49:37 <asciilifeform> phf: their docs re the 'mini' brick (newest 1, with such ports) seem to suggest 'drives 3, but 1 must be via hdmi'
92d124f5f7055c4a…f7055c4a…2023-02-18 16:50:10 <asciilifeform> so in fact loox like the only crapples that can pump out 3 displayports are 'studio', 'pro' lappy, and 'cheese grater'
7f070a6cc8f7776e…56101b91…2023-02-23 18:51:54 <signpost> in which we learn verisimilitude was a high endurance jonsykkel troll
67f98b9127411704…10a7b8e6…2023-02-18 16:50:46 <phf> if i were building a mac powerstation, and lets say i used one of those "sealed boxes" as a base, like macbook or mac mini, i'd go the egpu route
633c1af867f98b91…27411704…2023-02-18 16:51:57 <asciilifeform> phf: per crapple docs, egpu only worx on intel crapples
03bc682d153d2928…53afc3cf…2023-02-23 19:06:52 asciilifeform pressed 9969 (trying on desk station 1st)
28e6e6f3e190d496…633c1af8…2023-02-18 16:52:53 <asciilifeform> was trying to find out before buying paperweight for its weight in gold, lol
925c5a6703bc682d…03bc682d…2023-02-23 19:09:49 <phf> asciilifeform, is prod the only op that tells you your address?
6a929301363e8177…bcedda6c…2023-02-18 16:55:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 12:56:37 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: has also been carrying on a crapple port of gui pestron proto (for use on lappies) but developing on lappy has proved physically unpleasant
922481876a929301…e190d496…2023-02-18 16:54:57 <phf> i've just assembled an PC COMPUTER (pronounced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q77YBmtd2Rw&t=25s) and marveled at how fucking insanely fast it is
c1a9895092248187…363e8177…2023-02-18 16:56:21 <asciilifeform> phf: i've a '$maxint' 'threadripper' in there, and the m2 el cheapo in fact beats the shit outta it
bf54917392248187…92248187…2023-02-18 16:56:22 <phf> as our mutual bolix friend said "oh you just noticed a difference between a 45W gaytop and a 150w TDP desktop chip??"
b794cb5ec1a98950…6a929301…2023-02-18 16:57:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 13:38:50 asciilifeform[5]: phf: for comparison: 2m 49s on 'threadripper' 3960X.
ce940232b794cb5e…b794cb5e…2023-02-18 16:57:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:04:01 asciilifeform[4]: ( tho, interestingly, that thing is in fact the fastest (single-threaded, at any rate) box in asciilifeform's torture room, lol
008efc8fce940232…c1a98950…2023-02-18 16:57:01 asciilifeform was convinced there's some kinda fraud in published benchmarks, ended up in fact buying the box to see for himself. wasn't a fraud.
70b0ec819d48577e…9d48577e…2023-02-18 16:59:27 <asciilifeform> even compile (gnat) is ~5x faster on the 'm2' vs 'threadripper'
ce779aa470b0ec81…bf549173…2023-02-18 16:59:53 <phf> asciilifeform, i should probably run some benchmarks.. e.g. are you comparing "like for like"
beda08415c8182f3…ce779aa4…2023-02-18 17:01:12 <phf> well, no, what's you memory freq, are you compiling it off scsi ssd or m.2
1c8c95f8beda0841…beda0841…2023-02-18 17:02:14 <phf> e.g. your threadrippre is probably ecc, while m1 is not, that ought to add overhead, particularly on such "tight loop" ops
98cd24a71c8c95f8…1c8c95f8…2023-02-18 17:15:29 <phf> like if you're getting 5x compile speed differences Something Else Is Going on, for sure. i can buy that m1 is faster than equivalent or previous small device cpus by a margin
54d8e8d598cd24a7…5c8182f3…2023-02-18 17:15:55 <asciilifeform> phf: 'samsung 970 pro' nvme ssd in the 'threadripper'. sadly dun recall the precise memory bw
3b556854acde111e…98cd24a7…2023-02-18 17:17:21 <phf> i have openbsd running on my m1 (which was the original reason for even buying it, since long forgotten
14272f6b3b556854…acde111e…2023-02-18 17:17:33 <asciilifeform> phf: the benchmark in question was (see thrd) ffa, which strongly suspect fits in l1 on both irons. so prolly aint the memory bus. but hard to say for certain.
0b0839a714272f6b…14272f6b…2023-02-18 17:18:36 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform considering to buy the 'studio' brick, and bsd etc. but not knows whether the gpu has been reversed
a395dbe614272f6b…3b556854…2023-02-18 17:18:36 <phf> ) so i might be able to setup a like for like benchmark
22e2afb90b0839a7…a395dbe6…2023-02-18 17:18:58 <phf> no, def not to the point of running it with multiple HDMI monitors or anything like that
9bd82c9c63975d11…ce940232…2023-02-18 17:20:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 14:15:00 asciilifeform[6]: ftr, how to run: 1) throw out the flags (e.g. '-static') that dunwork on crapple gnat; 2) in limits.ads, up the max tape from 1MB to 12MB 3) up the stack to max crapple permits: ulimit -s 65520 3) :
25b256d2bfb46ab0…22e2afb9…2023-02-18 17:23:53 <phf> oh, i thought you were saying ~gnat compiles~ 5x faster
1e83dcb025b256d2…25b256d2…2023-02-18 17:25:31 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-23#1016815 << that particular tape has not been published afaiu
895b32dd1e83dcb0…9bd82c9c…2023-02-18 17:26:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 14:15:08 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: time cat tapes/10k_shots_1024bit_ffa_slid_rnd.tape | ./ffacalc/bin/peh 1024 32 10660000 0
f087df6f895b32dd…1e83dcb0…2023-02-18 17:32:33 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023484 << "hacker" "culture"
89555371f087df6f…895b32dd…2023-02-18 17:33:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:03:53 signpost: in unrelated news, phf is right. half of "AI" is trans weebs.
1d8fa3ff89555371…f087df6f…2023-02-18 17:34:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023489 << i'm going through this article https://jaykmody.com/blog/gpt-from-scratch/ at the moment
d81406b61d8fa3ff…89555371…2023-02-18 17:35:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:05:24 signpost: booting up an opensource turd gpt
03f652c3d81406b6…1d8fa3ff…2023-02-18 17:34:44 <phf> unfortunate side-effect of PC COMPUTER is that it runs cyberpunk 2077 as well as it does numpy
91a588bf03f652c3…03f652c3…2023-02-18 17:38:31 <phf> right above quoted line there was a conversation about apple computer leasing and tivoization and all that, which ties with the gpt https://archive.is/PUShr
fd922ceb91a588bf…91a588bf…2023-02-18 17:39:12 <phf> "OpenAI Proposes Government Restrict AI Chips to Prevent Propaganda Explosion" (i haven't read the article, but it appears to summarize and link to relevant openai paper)
376b4345fd922ceb…fd922ceb…2023-02-18 17:41:35 <phf> funny thing when we had the previous conversation about chatgpt, i was going to make a cyberpunk themed joke, "oh yeah they are going to classify high-performance gpus as munitions so that you can't make your chatgpt say bad words at home"
386df160376b4345…376b4345…2023-02-18 17:42:41 <phf> i since found out that high-performance gpus already have export restrictions (kind of obvious, but i didn't think about it), and of course openai people being what they are they are proposing such measures in earnest
c7e1ff7ed4a16ed4…d81406b6…2023-02-18 17:44:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:02:18 billymg: asciilifeform: you vill own nothing and you vill be happy
24e615dfc7e1ff7e…651eecef…2023-02-18 17:57:45 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023700 << recalls 90s apple ad for G4 desktop
f0b681a824e615df…c7e1ff7e…2023-02-18 17:51:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 12:40:26 phf[awt|deedbot]: "OpenAI Proposes Government Restrict AI Chips to Prevent Propaganda Explosion" (i haven't read the article, but it appears to summarize and link to relevant openai paper)
f39eb129f0b681a8…24e615df…2023-02-18 18:00:53 <billymg> nvidia also supposedly cancelling plans for their 48GB consumer card, can't help but think it's related
71e7f09af39eb129…d4a16ed4…2023-02-18 17:54:28 <phf> that ad is relevant, but man what a lame ad. just stylistically and thematically
ff4e21cf71e7f09a…bfb46ab0…2023-02-18 17:58:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023692 << it was in a tarball in ch14
95fc3bf9ff4e21cf…f0b681a8…2023-02-18 17:59:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 12:26:46 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-23#1016815 << that particular tape has not been published afaiu
b092caac95fc3bf9…ff4e21cf…2023-02-18 17:59:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023691 << ftr was 'naked eye' observation, there, asciilifeform not timed the compile.
aa3e8919b092caac…95fc3bf9…2023-02-18 18:00:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 12:25:08 phf[awt|deedbot]: oh, i thought you were saying ~gnat compiles~ 5x faster
46ef2dafaa3e8919…71e7f09a…2023-02-18 18:00:32 <phf> in other news, asciilifeform has switched jobs and now is working for apple corporation!
78fe90cf4c8eaed9…4c8eaed9…2023-02-18 18:03:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023702 << the very phrase 'export restrictions' invokes '80s nostalgia, y'know, back when serious irons were actually stamped out in the reich proper
b1cf1bd078fe90cf…aa3e8919…2023-02-18 18:04:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 12:43:56 phf[awt|deedbot]: i since found out that high-performance gpus already have export restrictions (kind of obvious, but i didn't think about it), and of course openai people being what they are they are proposing such measures in earnest
3d4fa0b5b1cf1bd0…78fe90cf…2023-02-18 18:03:41 <asciilifeform> 'verboten to ship a microvax to su!' etc
be6bbdb97cea972b…f47d6d5a…2023-02-18 18:06:45 <phf> i feel like at some i posted homepage of somebody from kurchatov talking about ins and outs of running custom whatever it was pdp at a closed research facility
561c4c86be6bbdb9…7cea972b…2023-02-18 18:08:06 <asciilifeform> re gptism -- asciilifeform played, like errybody else, with the public demo, and still can't muster much moar excitement than had for 'eliza' in '90s. gpttron does a kinda 90% emulation of the segment of the net people asciilifeform not cares to interact with, lolyes. but this was good for an evening's lul, at most
db234bb6561c4c86…561c4c86…2023-02-18 18:09:25 <asciilifeform> phf: not recall the pdp link, but possibly. (and if one believes rumours, to this day they're baking bk0010-style micropdp dies in zelenograd, for the 'land that time forgot' eternal 1980s reenactments)
4adc0b1adb234bb6…db234bb6…2023-02-18 18:10:28 asciilifeform unearthed a 'mk-85' pocket calculator at one pt, with that same chipset. runs on a watch battery installed in 1990 (seal still intact, lol), a++
1382065c4adc0b1a…be6bbdb9…2023-02-18 18:11:28 <phf> "you think you need more than pdp in your self guided rocket control? you have desease of american capitalist!"
9b154c29f63f0edb…f63f0edb…2023-02-18 18:12:03 <asciilifeform> fwiw reich's 'minute man 3' reportedly still pdp11.
a337b14d9b154c29…1382065c…2023-02-18 18:12:41 <phf> my impression is further up the critical infrastructure chain you go the more "still X" you get
063dcacba337b14d…9b154c29…2023-02-18 18:12:54 <asciilifeform> ( or at least claimed. likely if they confessed that it runs win10 , errybody else will pull triggers , lol )
71e5f4761e1747e3…1e1747e3…2023-02-18 18:13:27 asciilifeform recalls old #t thrd re pdp11 install base in nuke power industry
c6b965ec71e5f476…a337b14d…2023-02-18 18:14:45 <phf> my favorite one is nyc subway running on os/2, which, and i mean the story, i find to be aesthetically pleasing
6c9e38b4c6b965ec…71e5f476…2023-02-18 18:15:23 asciilifeform not so many yrs ago, still had a working os2 box. 'galciv' !
f6eb857d6c9e38b4…6c9e38b4…2023-02-18 18:16:03 <asciilifeform> iirc nyc subway until mid-90s still ran on the original mech relays.
a5872ee7f6eb857d…f6eb857d…2023-02-18 18:16:23 <asciilifeform> and until '80 or so, powered by orig. steam dynamo.
016c9a35f462c47f…c6b965ec…2023-02-18 18:18:46 <phf> if it worx, have a vendor rebuild it in node.js for $xmil
96aee07b68427cd1…68427cd1…2023-02-18 18:20:45 asciilifeform recalls '1st swallows of spring' there, e.g. boeing's cppization and luloverflow bugola etc
a83d3f1b96aee07b…96aee07b…2023-02-18 18:21:54 <asciilifeform> the folx who not grew up on lol.js etc and can actually program 'on watch battery installed in 1990' dun live 4evah. inescapably will be replaced with what's avail. to replace'em with.
8351579fa83d3f1b…016c9a35…2023-02-18 18:23:02 <phf> i don't think that it's just "kids these days". as some people like to point out "there's more freaks online now than used to be, but the noise is higher"
35e738088351579f…a83d3f1b…2023-02-18 18:23:27 <asciilifeform> phf: is moar of a 'you are what you eat' problem, unfortunately
a9d44a8a35e73808…8351579f…2023-02-18 18:24:12 <phf> e.g. poc||gtfo zoomers program on watch battery for fun, then go to design python backends for adtech
48c980b6a9d44a8a…35e73808…2023-02-18 18:26:15 <asciilifeform> cultural demise. recall thrds re 'they then bring adtech habits to emacs' etc
be3ccd6948c980b6…48c980b6…2023-02-18 18:27:03 <asciilifeform> 'soar with the pigs by day and wallow with the eagles at night' turns out not worx so well in practice.
2884d878bb13bdab…bb13bdab…2023-02-18 18:29:08 <phf> and the application of computing where it need not be
3696bd576be1ab34…1425120c…2023-02-18 18:29:36 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-22 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile you prolly can't buy a flashlight w/out a computer. and crashes. Because Reasons )
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 56b4d2f6dd3f48211c05e6378b930cc0dfa6646810da28faa6449d0bee4e246d) prior to <billymg> ---
0b4a9af056b4d2f6…08445aa5…2022-06-02 18:06:52 <billymg> the reason why asciilifeform's recent nsa log links not adding backlinks btw
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 769a037f087c8448f10091b55972df9c6f5651ba5c5c1c78d19fe043eaab924d) prior to <billymg> ---
8fe64f36769a037f…0b4a9af0…2022-06-02 18:07:11 <billymg> i never restarted the pest bot with that fix
4327d4e3c24f2c5c…c24f2c5c…2022-06-02 18:11:29 <asciilifeform> quite effective plunder of the 'weak hands', and somehow quickly forgotten
368565104327d4e3…4327d4e3…2022-06-02 18:12:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006055 << was 'piling up zeros' until '17, when the 'institutionals' found their current pill against this
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ab5465dc687918adab2dcdeb9f6ec5293136c59c7e87f339ab6978744ff508ed) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
6c95d215ab5465dc…36856510…2022-06-02 18:13:42 <asciilifeform> their current toolkit includes also shitcoin proliferation (yet anuther way to divert usd away from uncontrolled pumping of btc by 'humans')
b62028046c95d215…a8d18e2b…2022-06-02 18:21:52 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006065 << yes but even that was not below previous ATH.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 4dc57f932bcb6ae540355a8bafa41f5164ec7ae3c254404a7e39f668c4d037b5) prior to <billymg> ---
6d855baa4dc57f93…908633c7…2022-06-02 18:16:55 <billymg> right, the mega covid dump was still 3x previous ATH, currently sitting at 1.5x previous ATH (not adjusting for covid money printing)
a0de7cda6d855baa…6c95d215…2022-06-02 18:15:23 <asciilifeform> billymg: can elaborate plox? 'ath' -- all time high ?
594caff10bdcc9c7…c2a775e7…2022-06-02 18:18:19 <billymg> hence 'previous' ATH, as opposed to 'most recent' or 'current'
90251100ca53309a…ca53309a…2022-06-02 18:18:49 <billymg> and after the 2017 ATH, previous ATH was ~1k from 2013
0301c50c876c5512…876c5512…2022-06-02 18:17:12 asciilifeform not 100% clear on the significance of this metric, however
60e594c80301c50c…90251100…2022-06-02 18:19:54 <billymg> bitcoin, after reaching a new ATH, has never dumped below it's previous ATH
8ca7d71a5358eb06…b6202804…2022-06-02 18:26:44 <awt> Could happen. Lots of folks could possibly have longs predicated on this "rule"
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 970fe047a92e491543e37501454c68ba3e5cddd5b9e0732210df9f9df029a57a) prior to <billymg> ---
11222e18970fe047…00c7e68d…2022-06-02 18:21:51 <billymg> asciilifeform, awt: yeah, i could see lizards dump to 19k to "zomg unprecedented! bitcoin dead!"
d69afed485701545…8ca7d71a…2022-06-02 18:28:18 <awt> asciilifeform: likely time for that to happen would not be when regime is not wrecking the global financial system and getting wrecked on all fronts itself
a6c32d3c39dd2aaf…67b55f67…2022-06-02 18:21:33 <asciilifeform> for that matter, they can make virtually any desired numbers emerge from the goxes, whenever ( 'no actual btc was harmed in the making of this film' etc )
5e2759e3a6c32d3c…11222e18…2022-06-02 18:23:44 <billymg> big question for me is still whether or not china and russia want to load up on btc
0ce78adc5e2759e3…39dd2aaf…2022-06-02 18:30:04 <awt> But in anycase - don't want to be accused of technical analysisism
c310fd330ce78adc…a6c32d3c…2022-06-02 18:22:26 <asciilifeform> billymg: near as can tell, they closely resemble the anglo reich in addiction to printing press and 'monetary policy'
fcd1bb800ce78adc…5e2759e3…2022-06-02 18:24:32 <billymg> last i heard china "unbanned" bitcoin again recently
3b058019fcd1bb80…0ce78adc…2022-06-02 18:30:56 <awt> billymg: also some evidence miners still mining there
c39a4eee3b058019…c310fd33…2022-06-02 18:22:53 <asciilifeform> ... on top of this, most btc, from pov of ru/cn, is in hands of foreign devils, and so often enuff seen there as 'instrument of reich'
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain abe273cd904dfb8e4ddfd809f9f9fe1137f9669211b050f556b0b50bf3695375) prior to <billymg> ---
25cc12d1abe273cd…abe273cd…2022-06-02 18:26:02 <billymg> e.g. does satoshi's stash belong to the nsa/cia
74b12b3a25cc12d1…c39a4eee…2022-06-02 18:24:05 <asciilifeform> from orc pov, 'real assets' are e.g. oilfields, rather than btc ( which from quasiliterate orc pov is difficult to distinguish from garden-variety 'paper' , esp. when the only kinda btc they're even aware of to start with is the paper/goxcoin variety )
a8086fad3d7fe78f…74b12b3a…2022-06-02 18:24:49 <asciilifeform> billymg: from their pov, prolly suffices that it belongs to unknown foreigners, to be 'guilty until proven innocent' of cia
fdab24b1a8086fad…3b058019…2022-06-02 18:34:00 <awt> asciilifeform: in that case, the more it's suppressed in the reich, more evidence it's not compromised.
57ae7c6c5bddd4a6…a8086fad…2022-06-02 18:27:23 <asciilifeform> reich often enuff pantomimes 'suppress' constructively. e.g. the '17--present 'encryption wank' (concerning wholly faux cryptosystems) to encourage use of various 'coloured phones' ; or the play-pretend 'war on dope' etc
df62fc4e57ae7c6c…57ae7c6c…2022-06-02 18:27:42 <asciilifeform> difficult to imagine that crowned heads entirely unaware.
a0d56ec5df62fc4e…5bddd4a6…2022-06-02 18:36:18 <awt> asciilifeform: certainly however price is a different matter
41972a7e4b0f49c3…df62fc4e…2022-06-02 18:29:25 <asciilifeform> the exch rate aint even a scalar. (i.e. it's one thing if your contact is via 'let's load a gox and see exch rate', entirely other if you want to buy coin in serious qty; yet anuther if you want to buy trb-compat. coin; etc )
4d20cae141972a7e…3d7fe78f…2022-06-02 18:33:32 <billymg> goxes still sell trb-compat. coin, dunno about the quantity though
5813dc8512e491f1…4d20cae1…2022-06-02 18:34:07 <billymg> yeah, i mean you can at a minimum still log in, buy 100 bux worth, and transfer to a 1-address
a9088fea5813dc85…12e491f1…2022-06-02 18:32:07 <asciilifeform> in practice good chance of 'sorry, withdrawal only worx if yer a++ gold star kyc approved, please mail the following photos of yer arse and wait 6mo' etc
42cc2439a9088fea…a9088fea…2022-06-02 18:32:32 <asciilifeform> see what happens when try and buy 100k$ worth.
57c1425942cc2439…5813dc85…2022-06-02 18:34:47 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, that's a given at ~100% of goxes these days
3dd07fc6ebc19c6f…ebc19c6f…2022-06-02 18:35:24 <billymg> and yeah, no idea how it works if you want to transfer $100k worth to a 1-address
379dad3a3dd07fc6…4b0f49c3…2022-06-02 18:41:36 <awt> Incidentally re: kyc tax harassment - paid massive federal tax bill this year but of course got a letter back saying I owe 1000 bux because of the stimmi cheques.
9f803b29379dad3a…42cc2439…2022-06-02 18:33:57 <asciilifeform> awt: good % of tax is collected, deliberately, in precisely this way
9a7bee4bf44ada1f…3dd07fc6…2022-06-02 18:36:18 <billymg> awt: i got a letter of harassment from NY asking when i moved to texas and when i sold $company_stock
3a5ae9b4686ea876…9a7bee4b…2022-06-02 18:38:40 <billymg> awt: iirc there were headlines of california passing (or perhaps only wanting to pass) law that collects gains for x years even after you move out
301128de0b98c8ab…f44ada1f…2022-06-02 18:37:26 <asciilifeform> will be interesting when they decree that e.g. frenchmen owe californistan tax 'because walked by a crapple store and partook of the glory of californireich' or the like
ddfe63de301128de…7888cf36…2022-06-02 18:41:26 <billymg> asciilifeform: doesn't it currently work the other way around? eureich wanting to tax california companies because "give us some of that internet money"
2190c0a1ddfe63de…301128de…2022-06-02 18:39:50 <asciilifeform> billymg: formally they have subsidiaries there, neh
006d57062190c0a1…2190c0a1…2022-06-02 18:40:07 <asciilifeform> ( as did e.g. google in ru until recently bankrupt from fines )
4233ad4e006d5706…ddfe63de…2022-06-02 18:42:27 <billymg> was referring to this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-usa-tax-idUSKBN28522M
f3081fefcfb61549…cfb61549…2022-06-02 18:42:36 <asciilifeform> (and presumably +ev, or would pack it)
522a67f2f3081fef…4233ad4e…2022-06-02 18:46:15 <billymg> i guess facebook does biz there in the sense of frenchmen can log into their facebook accounts and see ads
16c0ed4f7f114bc8…522a67f2…2022-06-02 18:47:43 billymg now remembers the early days of the web in the US when online shopping somehow exempt from sales tax
ba78af3216c0ed4f…16c0ed4f…2022-06-02 18:48:12 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, i suppose it's justifiable, as far as any tax is
03ef637dba78af32…7f114bc8…2022-06-02 19:31:43 <asciilifeform> simply, one pays a tax when can't escape. whether 'justifiable' or not.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 07242f557e8f4315806a6652ffee2fc7b6a5f684296ecedf658526ac115ba919) prior to <billymg> ---
12f8674507242f55…ba78af32…2022-06-02 23:07:40 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006140 << agreed and wasn't' suggesting that it could, only illustrating the observed pattern up to present day
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain b204ec54d1f27a7352a50c0cba2b191c434b32ba1b018c04e72491ee4f731161) prior to <billymg> ---
e1970f9bb204ec54…12f86745…2022-06-02 23:08:29 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006151 << was only talking about btc here, not the broader market. and i guess i don't know, just a hunch as to how much i think they can suppress it
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d9837aa2d1a2d3690e2e85322e789950fb13a05ce94f77440478674baecd3c5f) prior to <billymg> ---
5799e451d9837aa2…e1970f9b…2022-06-02 23:20:15 <billymg> in tru collapse scenario only food, ammo, and reliable neighbors count for anything. if that happens, well, will be interesting. and i have nfi what the situation would be like here in cr or how long i'd survive
a7c619d35799e451…5799e451…2022-06-02 23:21:23 <billymg> i'd still keep my keys safe, in case the world makes it out the other side, but yeah, i guess priorities would change pretty quick
a7e51fe237fed355…37fed355…2022-06-02 23:23:04 <billymg> newspapers could print "you must starve yourself to death to save the black children" and people would do it -- problem solved, more resources to go around for those remaining
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 31ed97aaecb041daa1749cc7521c09f4b54197cb6df5680bc0d42e9435010c8c) prior to <billymg> ---
16a0fc3831ed97aa…a7e51fe2…2022-06-02 23:28:51 <billymg> signpost: talking btc or also also s&p, nasdaq, etc.?
7b1da52e87553a76…87553a76…2022-06-02 23:30:41 <billymg> my thought on 80-90% drawdown is that it won't happen because the run up, from bottom to top, wasn't as high. in 2017 it was 100x ($200 to $20k)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain f345a2c1bf23d9f2ffe877e18873f63622ba18e4812b7dfa898e16215badb92d) prior to <billymg> ---
5b7c225bf345a2c1…840b6c8c…2022-06-02 23:39:07 <billymg> UBI would be lulzy, given how the average joe spent his stimulus check in 2020
9f75c2969c13dd72…03ef637d…2022-06-02 23:45:57 <asciilifeform> awt: folx w/ 0 saving at least not have to grimace as these dissolve into vapour as printingpress goes ever brr
a9f6e3ed9f75c296…9c13dd72…2022-06-02 23:54:20 <awt> Stage is set for either massive inflation or formal bank nationalization
8234dcf3a9f6e3ed…9f75c296…2022-06-02 23:46:35 <asciilifeform> reich banks already de-facto nationalized in '08 episode
08d222e8c5faf1ce…735af86c…2022-06-02 23:48:01 asciilifeform never grasped what diff these'd make. there's already a centrally-operated electro-usd, has been for half century+
938193ec08d222e8…08d222e8…2022-06-02 23:49:07 <asciilifeform> for that matter, iirc various shitholes issued'em already, and they lived & died exactly like regular shitcoins
b9e8a009938193ec…938193ec…2022-06-02 23:50:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006183 << ~half of adult popul. in usa already 'ubi'
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 07a2a1b9c21237a34e4cfaae90d9b194a39fa24ba0d0cda387a605ba295f95df) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
0904e0e707a2a1b9…b9e8a009…2022-06-02 23:52:13 <asciilifeform> sumbody gotta physically maintain the panem et circenses for the 'ubi' sads
b055c78f0904e0e7…0904e0e7…2022-06-02 23:52:40 <asciilifeform> (not even to mention the reptilian yachts)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 27da0a2fe99b163486b34ffbee8f6d7938a89c1273f82a86b25c15916e653fcd) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
c0f6881327da0a2f…669e1a71…2022-06-02 23:55:43 <asciilifeform> in usa no ready path to this, as buying power of usd in fact propped up by foreign chumps ~exclusively
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain dc78f3dd7d5f922a0d9c332e147286c009596ea0a59cd8db22c009bec0f6092e) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain c4201efc0aa7cd0bb5f5b68f463f2122a54032eba8591cdff46d43f0b477bd9d) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
5063ec57c4201efc…dee9025a…2022-06-02 23:57:09 <asciilifeform> cancel paper benjie -- the asphalt layers, fruit pickers, etc. go the fuck home to aztlan
b0120a3c5063ec57…5063ec57…2022-06-02 23:59:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006186 << whenever asciilifeform reads these, always wonders if 'parallel universe'. in just about erry salt mine where did time, was always shortage of hands, and ~impossible to hire ~anybody with hands growing from correct place
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 9bc262c55c1bebeec69883e87e21f98244ff3f66bb997fd794350ad30713c51b) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
673e857f9bc262c5…b0120a3c…2022-06-02 23:59:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-02#1006166 << to date, 100% of 'chaos in streets' in reich was of the controlled variety
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7146b4120229bee6a1b202abca0313fc0a71acf6fa01275767254e0190041fc2) prior to <awt> ---
19cc3d5e7146b412…c5faf1ce…2022-06-03 00:02:08 <awt> Arguable that given the rate of inflation there was no recovery
669e1a7119cc3d5e…b055c78f…2022-06-02 23:55:05 <asciilifeform> in other shitholes, inflation eventually undone by devaluation ('let's drop a zero on the banknotes', 'trade up to 1000 old rubles for new per meatsack by next month' etc)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 75568f67ffad28388a12d7b8f1896379708cec5d85b6c1391e7fda62274e2eca) prior to <awt> ---
f13b9ed0b60d92ea…1e70bf4e…2022-06-03 00:09:11 <awt> SV was a ghost down around the time I graduated. Similarly I was laid off in 2008.
f1368fd5f13b9ed0…f13b9ed0…2022-06-03 00:09:41 <awt> Could say my hands grow from the incorrect place I guess
b49f7dd3f1368fd5…b60d92ea…2022-06-03 00:01:56 <asciilifeform> moar plausibly 'biz cycle' is moar palpable in west usa
2c0959eeb49f7dd3…b49f7dd3…2022-06-03 00:02:13 <asciilifeform> where mega-tbtf corps balloon and then pop periodically with printola emission fluctuations
616bb41635ba9030…35ba9030…2022-06-03 00:11:34 <awt> When IPO market ended last fall, project similarly cancelled
dc7aa63c616bb416…2c0959ee…2022-06-03 00:03:31 <asciilifeform> in east, good % of 'economy' is ultimately powered by reich contracts with terms measured in decades
7aa63954dc7aa63c…5b7c225b…2022-06-03 00:05:56 <billymg> asciilifeform: i've heard of hiring freezes and slowdowns also, and not just in meme headlines. buddy of mine who's a software exec at some company was commenting weeks ago about how "job market is bad now"
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 00d94836583a4ba5d2acca355ea78eef8a11263d1602b0c2b8fcb37aac9714a3) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
c95c79eb00d94836…00d94836…2022-06-03 00:20:14 <asciilifeform> and decent supply of historic fuckings to avenge when get the chance.
87221db3c95c79eb…924ae790…2022-06-03 00:20:28 <signpost> afaik lira's inflating like hell. but yeah, traditional solution's also right there for them.
642d75f187221db3…87221db3…2022-06-03 00:22:05 <signpost> actually by turkish standards I guess 70% inflation's tame!
0dd0aefa77f9b972…c95c79eb…2022-06-03 00:22:47 <asciilifeform> ~nobody saves in orc currencies afaik, even in orcistans
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain c543a183925ac31537193ab9b5a0843bb5e7e64dd2961bf6ba8b3fb690a9ba0a) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 96978cf1c7936ac0101956479fcbc3f4e961d0598b13fc22139a63ba798c5529) prior to <billymg> ---
08cd094196978cf1…59c33849…2022-06-04 14:28:44 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, i already set it to 8x, prior to that was not even appearing in lspci
ceb17fbd08cd0941…08cd0941…2022-06-04 14:29:43 <billymg> asciilifeform: also set the "scan for roms" to "addon first", no dice
c0d9ccf6ceb17fbd…ceb17fbd…2022-06-04 14:31:27 <billymg> turned off "quiet boot", tried disabling onboard ide/sata
ee28b465c0d9ccf6…c0d9ccf6…2022-06-04 14:33:01 <billymg> tried pretty much any bios option that seemed even remotely related
f30d0e97ee28b465…ee28b465…2022-06-04 14:38:10 <billymg> the model number of my board is H8DGU-F and it's on the 3.5a bios, there is a 3.5c available. i'm thinking if i get the card working on another machine i'll try updating the bios
b6eae941f30d0e97…f30d0e97…2022-06-04 14:39:16 <billymg> also tried moving the card to different slot in the riser (there are two), no change from that either
659aad2db6eae941…b6eae941…2022-06-04 14:41:19 <billymg> jumpers are in the correct position according to the manual
36eba946659aad2d…e2be101b…2022-06-04 14:46:32 <asciilifeform> billymg: have you verified the card to be alive in anuther box ?
ddd405f909b123a5…ce91bcc2…2022-06-04 14:49:59 <billymg> also not yet tried downloading sys-block/storcli to try interacting with it from the os
828fa122ddd405f9…ddd405f9…2022-06-04 14:50:27 <billymg> but appears in dmesg and lspci. dmesg claims drivers loaded properly
07ac55be828fa122…828fa122…2022-06-04 14:51:03 <billymg> was brand new card, shipped in original packaging
7dd2014d07ac55be…09b123a5…2022-06-04 14:48:58 <asciilifeform> billymg: i've encountered cards which 'work' but not bootable from
ea09b4a978e79205…7dd2014d…2022-06-04 14:50:28 <asciilifeform> helps to have a known-good card in yer stash, then can rule out sad box
ae4a6d61ea09b4a9…78e79205…2022-06-04 14:53:08 <billymg> biggest pain about this stuff in cr is it ain't order another, try in ~2 days, it's order another, try in ~2 weeks
5fe09d73ae4a6d61…ea09b4a9…2022-06-04 14:51:01 asciilifeform also encountered supermicro boxen where the pcie riser damaged
3e9c0e625fe09d73…5fe09d73…2022-06-04 14:51:14 <asciilifeform> billymg: this is 1 reason wai asciilifeform not in e.g. cr
b7ac580d3e9c0e62…ae4a6d61…2022-06-04 14:54:21 <billymg> asciilifeform: could throw a spare vid card in there just to test
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 3795359bf2d286701009911ac36373db2825ba8e7cb7df547a2a49247a1d50ca) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
c2e2f0f6344adb68…344adb68…2022-06-04 14:57:14 <billymg> will first try the raid card in my other box here, i've got a free slot for it
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain c38446b7d3d516b81211d2662dee0c61048579cb0d1625b1c5d1c0bb400bc8ac) prior to <shinohai> ---
d3e212521a7dacb6…1a7dacb6…2022-06-05 14:54:54 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-05#1006335 << "It's a big club and you ain't in it."
4131e55ed3e21252…fea796b2…2022-06-05 14:57:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-05 14:07:43 billymg: "...troll the noncompliant into tilt"
07a15c06d3e21252…d3e21252…2022-06-05 16:21:42 <shinohai> I'd smoke meth if I was born in the Biden family too (or any oligarchy for that matter)
cd7fd895e71a4558…4131e55e…2022-06-05 16:20:44 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-06-28 asciilifeform: and, from same fishwrap , 'Intel CEO Brian Krzanich has resigned effective immediately. Krzanich is stepping down due to a past consensual relationship with an Intel employee and the company's internal investigation has confirmed a violation of their company non-fraternization policies.
581c425d576c8b47…576c8b47…2022-06-05 16:24:47 <billymg> yeah, i really can't fault the guy, he's doing it right imho
020617aacd7fd895…cd7fd895…2022-06-05 16:20:44 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-06-28 mod6: It's clearly stated on the Washington monument: ``Im reich ist vergnugen verboten!''
01eb1f8d581c425d…de61bcf0…2022-06-05 16:40:49 <asciilifeform> oligarchs dun ~have~ to smoke dope. tho does appear to be a 'professional disease' of moneyed idlers with 'no theorems to prove'(tm)(r)(p.erdos)
fa70d09735295085…2fba1c2c…2022-07-31 15:38:27 asciilifeform 's station will be down for maintenance later today: moving irons
e2d73312d3c2adf7…d3c2adf7…2022-08-02 02:01:02 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-01#1010922 << I wondered if adlai was referring to "How to Write a Thesis" here, but perhaps he will elaborate when returns.
911b97a0020617aa…e71a4558…2022-06-05 16:21:44 <billymg> you have to really hate yourself to be the kind of person that works your way up there
90e4e3d001eb1f8d…01eb1f8d…2022-06-05 16:43:02 <asciilifeform> bureaucrats who 'work way up', and pseudo-entrepreneurial sublizards aint 'in the club' tho. rather, servants.
558b8434e2d73312…cffcbc60…2022-08-02 02:01:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-01 18:32:31 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-01#1112685 << which book is that?
ba676e70911b97a0…911b97a0…2022-06-05 16:22:29 <billymg> though i guess big difference between those that work their way up and those born in (see: hunter biden)
715a8cb4a80a97ea…a80a97ea…2022-08-24 13:35:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011276 << asciilifeform not expects that, even if over9000 folx take up pestism, that they'd live here (why?)
063effdd715a8cb4…ae7c272b…2022-08-24 13:36:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 14:22:22 awt: Who should be on pestnet?
f3c47a7d063effdd…6bf5d0e8…2022-08-24 13:41:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011317 << imho this is the way to do it -- guest door
6a2df1c4e5dd060b…e5dd060b…2022-06-19 16:30:45 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 18 minutes and 29 seconds
c46609a6e5dd060b…77dd0033…2022-06-19 16:37:03 <billymg> i'll take the blame, all the problems started after i posted this
6fc73d93f3c47a7d…824914c0…2022-08-24 13:43:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:15:23 phf[awt]: i want vex rants to be part of pestnet, unrelated to abstract questions of "is it a public forum", so maybe i build a web interface that i brought up some time ago, so that the guy can connect, post his rasta videos and such
57130b936a2df1c4…6a2df1c4…2022-06-19 16:30:46 <busybot> The next difficulty adjustment for BTC will occur in appx.
3740ff41c46609a6…de02acad…2022-06-19 16:37:04 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-16 billymg: ^ no major problems really, works well enough for daily use for months now
890f4aa76fc73d93…c148a507…2022-08-24 13:43:28 <PeterL> oh hi asciilifeform, good to see you got it connected
1a98ebf957130b93…57130b93…2022-06-19 16:30:46 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 18 minutes and 30 seconds
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a8ffb67f7cda864161fc278df0bd9e1965fb8bf5fcbc91356aaa19076e502d91) prior to <busybot> ---
e13633b5a8ffb67f…73e3df0b…2022-06-06 16:40:54 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 45 days 20 minutes and 54 seconds
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 14a8498b477d527284a4213e6a23469db67d9c39d61fc609da4417db720ddbe8) prior to <signpost> ---
d17ef9d28dbf18cf…8dbf18cf…2022-06-06 17:49:23 <asciilifeform> hmm signpost is deedbot on pestnet already or notyet ?
fd49bd338ed0d765…8ed0d765…2022-06-19 16:27:40 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 15 minutes and 19 seconds
9561a45ab6974e7d…b6974e7d…2022-06-19 16:29:47 <asciilifeform> shinohai: any chance thing could shit out 'current x price at $time...' rather than simply 'current x price..' ?
c03a2eff91bbe27b…91bbe27b…2022-06-19 16:27:41 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 15 minutes and 19 seconds
360bd6fe9561a45a…9561a45a…2022-06-19 16:30:13 asciilifeform wonders whether we finally have our 1st circular getdata, lol
ed768086c03a2eff…c03a2eff…2022-06-19 16:27:42 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 15 minutes and 19 seconds
d6be8fe7222d7bb0…222d7bb0…2022-06-19 16:27:43 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 15 minutes and 19 seconds
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 3a57530d44f52e4becb0707e816503537a86d3c527a80743e1a78019cef9ec03) prior to <deedbot> ---
09873d96cc9a1b2e…cc9a1b2e…2022-06-06 19:32:53 <signpost> going to let it sit for a while and see whether this persists, and what happens in logs
d3d8813609873d96…09873d96…2022-06-06 19:33:24 <signpost> I've got two pest instances on the same box here.
ae2d174cd3d88136…d3d88136…2022-06-06 19:34:04 <signpost> appears the lag is between those two, not within deedbot
dcfc6e91ae2d174c…ae2d174c…2022-06-06 19:34:37 <signpost> awt: does having multiple local instances of pest break any assumptions of blatta?
76e97c9fdcfc6e91…581c425d…2022-06-06 19:40:17 <billymg> signpost: i've seen significant bot delays with mine sometimes too
611cac8976e97c9f…76e97c9f…2022-06-06 19:40:41 <billymg> one is on another pest station on the same box as my primary, the other is on ec2
e59266b8ce9bc194…020617aa…2022-06-06 19:41:26 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 40d 1h 32m
0ad26e40e59266b8…ce9bc194…2022-06-06 19:41:39 <billymg> not much delay that time, that's the one on the same box
d2eb643f3006dd64…138b4f08…2022-06-06 19:39:33 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7880; TRB-Compatible: 30; TRB: 13
9e8deeaed2eb643f…d2eb643f…2022-06-06 19:39:33 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 8; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Algeria: 3; Russia: 3; Singapore: 2; Canada: 1; Italy: 1; Mexico: 1; France: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
a8ce09d7f24bed0b…107af544…2022-06-09 19:48:02 shinohai is loking 9977 best of all previous releases so far ...
2df3a8459e8deeae…9e8deeae…2022-06-06 19:39:34 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1;
e39544992df3a845…3006dd64…2022-06-06 19:42:33 <billymg> fast also. if there's a pattern as to when it's slow i haven't figured it out yet
4e0b0be6e3954499…e3954499…2022-06-06 19:44:44 <billymg> hmm... that last line not yet showing in the logger (after 2 min)
4c933dfae3954499…0f77620a…2022-06-06 19:45:27 <asciilifeform> if you have the debug info log scrolling in a visible shell, becomes apparent
b9a7aa714e0b0be6…4e0b0be6…2022-06-06 19:45:12 <billymg> and there they both are, so looks like the second line either knocked it loose, or just a coincidence
974f94004c933dfa…4c933dfa…2022-06-06 19:45:50 asciilifeform seeing buncha getmsg back'n'forth even nao
3eb330d4b9a7aa71…b9a7aa71…2022-06-06 19:45:54 <billymg> but yeah, stuff like that i've noticed before, without any apparent pattern
cc9d0509974f9400…974f9400…2022-06-06 19:46:26 <asciilifeform> incl. repeatedly for same msg's from shinohai -- suspect that 'smalpest' has a bug where doesn't properly store old msgs
a8ad3c25cc9d0509…cc9d0509…2022-06-06 19:46:54 <asciilifeform> in principle one ought never to see a req for same old msg from one given $peer
54cdb85795e292de…e59266b8…2022-06-06 19:46:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 16:34:51 asciilifeform: shinohai: loox like the 1st time there was a buncha chain sync traffic
f312c06454cdb857…95e292de…2022-06-06 19:44:45 <asciilifeform> billymg: right nao seems that blatta doesn't 'prod', so you dun know yer outta sync w/ $peer until he speaks
0f77620af312c064…f312c064…2022-06-06 19:44:53 <asciilifeform> at which point can trigger a lengthy getmsg sequence
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 2b84fa46488b1a3fc887a667cd65f4650a844463163d838426f6c09d2f2d590a) prior to <awt> ---
103b6be42b84fa46…2b84fa46…2022-06-06 21:05:05 <awt> That said I have not yet encountered a case with the past couple of versions in which a sync failed.
4f515dd0103b6be4…103b6be4…2022-06-06 21:08:39 <awt> You could actually speed up the process by starting off with an up to date message table.
d0c699764f515dd0…4f515dd0…2022-06-06 21:11:30 <awt> shinohai: resolve is not supported. Appears I neglected to fully remove support for that command.
2d525d73d0c69976…95739bec…2022-06-06 21:05:13 <shinohai> ah kk I was going thru code and pulling out all the stops xD
c6adc3332d525d73…d0c69976…2022-06-06 21:17:24 <awt> asciilifeform: dupe GETDATA responses area little tricky to debug. You WILL get them since you're requesting missing messages from all peers.
0d12cda9c6adc333…c6adc333…2022-06-06 21:18:03 <awt> You won't see dupes in the db, but they may be logged multiple times.
11748cf90d12cda9…0d12cda9…2022-06-06 21:24:58 <awt> Quite possible that there is a timing bug in which a dupe GETDATA response triggers a dupe GETDATA request, but I have yet to see an infinite loop in the released versions.
3b2a245c11748cf9…2d525d73…2022-06-06 21:55:18 <shinohai> https://archive.ph/0CMGZ << lol Costa Rica ,gov rekt AGAIN ?
bb16df7b3b2a245c…150debe9…2022-06-06 21:57:41 <signpost> which hero will use CR's inability to run tech infrastructure as a tax-avoidance defense?
85417effb3496818…bb16df7b…2022-06-06 21:58:34 <signpost> to be clear, CR's *govt* ineptitude only makes CR the *place* more appealing.
c75a272a85417eff…b3496818…2022-06-06 22:07:03 <awt> signpost: I'm currently unable to pay social security tax so I guess me
b2cb99e78b8f19d7…3b2a245c…2022-06-06 21:58:57 <shinohai> I'm thinking more we should possibly join force and try to hold CR for ransom.
91d48c5599e9cac0…99e9cac0…2022-06-06 22:00:46 <signpost> shinohai: I'm still waiting for russia's "give us 1mil BTC or we'll launch your own nukes at your head"
e7f2854fa7824e61…d28bb872…2022-06-07 01:29:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-06#1006477 << hm; prolly oughta amend spec, but thinking , possibly oughta ask orig. sender of the 'orphan' for the missing msg, and only if times out ask erryone else
5335ee30e7f2854f…5b9303d8…2022-06-07 01:31:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 21:11:09 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: asciilifeform: dupe GETDATA responses area little tricky to debug. You WILL get them since you're requesting missing messages from all peers.
4e7f97d95335ee30…e7f2854f…2022-06-07 01:30:06 <asciilifeform> there's no particularly good reason to immediately ask entire peerage
d0e54f174e7f97d9…4e7f97d9…2022-06-07 01:30:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-06#1006458 << notbad
9c52f1f1d0e54f17…5335ee30…2022-06-07 01:33:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 20:37:31 billymg: asciilifeform: with some numbers: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=W7Rv
4652963c9c52f1f1…d0e54f17…2022-06-07 01:31:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-06#1006462 << 15s is squarely in 'is it even up?' category for most folx...
01ec2eb54652963c…9c52f1f1…2022-06-07 01:33:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 20:42:26 billymg: on the rk the results are more pronounced, ~193ms vs ~15s for the first two queries
0eb875d6ed296bfa…1e1cedbb…2022-06-14 15:12:07 <asciilifeform> awt: was thinking, possib. a newly built station oughta only fetch x hrs of log (unless operator requests 'gimme errything from birth of universe')
20867eba0eb875d6…0eb875d6…2022-06-14 15:12:34 <asciilifeform> ( atm deedbot is fetching kilometres of net log , but prolly dun need it for anyffin in practice )
e64e2a1a20867eba…20867eba…2022-06-14 15:14:11 <asciilifeform> heathen chatrons iirc handle this kinda thing by triggering on scroll
af0f728be64e2a1a…e64e2a1a…2022-06-14 15:14:23 <asciilifeform> we dun have this option, but could have a knob.
5c0d6fc6af0f728b…a1c10b8a…2022-06-14 15:17:08 <signpost> deedbot chewing through more message replay atm.
a01a2db6d29a5c84…af0f728b…2022-06-14 15:19:15 <asciilifeform> in principle is Right Thing to have a copy of 0 .. n net msgs on ea. station. but in practice might get unwieldy for stations with limited disk / bw
41dd7c1e875207b5…012c2cce…2022-06-14 18:50:18 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-14#1006864 << makes sense
bd4e2ed641dd7c1e…63c07981…2022-06-14 18:43:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-14 15:14:38 asciilifeform[signpost]: awt: was thinking, possib. a newly built station oughta only fetch x hrs of log (unless operator requests 'gimme errything from birth of universe')
20af2291bd4e2ed6…41dd7c1e…2022-06-14 18:58:00 <awt> Possible knob for bots would be to ignore commands older than x cutoff timestamp.
e89d6299824a47b5…65dc4985…2022-06-14 19:24:51 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/F595258CD9F1FDBDEFAE5093B4E2E0DCACB63D25.asc
809cb009b88ea3ba…e89d6299…2022-06-15 03:43:48 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/43FE67E10A9067FCED14EA4E1B0816F3976AD987.asc
6dcb73e12b552372…20af2291…2022-06-15 21:35:52 <awt> asciilifeform: presumably we want to support unicode handles?
a858853c6dcb73e1…3435bc63…2022-06-15 21:27:15 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform much opposed to unicode handles, see spec re why
7cccc5bef049e893…a858853c…2022-06-15 21:34:45 <asciilifeform> hmm there's no trap for rubbish in handles atm ?
aec952a97cccc5be…f049e893…2022-06-15 21:46:02 <awt> asciilifeform: no. Will simply fail to decode to ascii
018811c476f343be…76f343be…2022-06-15 21:37:12 <asciilifeform> fail to decode -> ignore , is how oughta be
632f29ab059b1478…059b1478…2022-06-15 21:48:44 <awt> As the cod is now, no way to conveniently ignore DIRECT or BROADCAST messages
5cf41372b111bc9e…018811c4…2022-06-15 21:41:20 <asciilifeform> in general, an ill-formatted msg oughta have same effect as a martian. i.e. 0
8d9cf0265cf41372…5cf41372…2022-06-15 21:53:52 <asciilifeform> awt: lulzy that there aint any way of forcing unicode strings to be visually distinct. but apparently fact.
1f0ff64b8d9cf026…b81e698b…2022-06-15 22:35:24 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006837 << impressive. very nice
1964a0be1f0ff64b…bd4e2ed6…2022-06-15 22:35:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-13 17:29:48 signpost: kraken ceo at least seems ideologically palatable, but I admit he's one guy likely to be digested and shat by the empire.
2c36e8791964a0be…8d9cf026…2022-06-15 22:58:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006889 << btw you can simply check if ea. byte falls into the prescribed range; no need to call py's decode thing
ce3376852c36e879…1964a0be…2022-06-15 23:00:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-15 21:39:10 awt[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: asciilifeform: no. Will simply fail to decode to ascii
6e01daa4f3589a4a…2c36e879…2022-06-15 23:00:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform not familiar with subj; how so that 'alright', but then 'likely to be digested & shat' ?
282e83176e01daa4…f3589a4a…2022-06-15 23:01:44 <signpost> well he's mortal. they can always kill him if nothing else sticks.
905db4c8282e8317…1f0ff64b…2022-06-15 23:04:46 <billymg> asciilifeform: 'likely to be digested and shat' because 'alright', isn't that how it always works?
5540ec75905db4c8…6e01daa4…2022-06-15 23:02:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: afaik not possible for 'honest man' to run a gox, given as it interfaces w/ reichbanks and will regularly receive 'national seekroority letters' and other decrees which require it to lie to users
41ddda2b5540ec75…5540ec75…2022-06-15 23:03:04 <asciilifeform> and given that hasn't yet been killed... tertium non datur, neh
12f0dfb941ddda2b…282e8317…2022-06-15 23:04:26 <signpost> I do not hold him to the standard of "fella can't even process payments for arms deals with north korea".
6c6f21f912f0dfb9…41ddda2b…2022-06-15 23:04:58 <asciilifeform> what from signpost's pov is the standard for 'acceptable gox' , outta curiosity ?
59dc5ba46c6f21f9…12f0dfb9…2022-06-15 23:05:58 <signpost> I can get company store credits into the thing reliably, coin to 1-addy out, and have L1 sitting within the thing which gives me some amount of confidence re: solvency.
d39ab9fca9d4c4da…a9d4c4da…2022-06-15 23:06:25 <asciilifeform> would expect that one still demands meatspace name, postage addr, passports, etc. ? (or no?)
b2c9f0e35c37a8fb…59dc5ba4…2022-06-15 23:07:06 <signpost> yep, demands imprint of ballsack in triplicate like they all do.
f1af63dcb2c9f0e3…5c37a8fb…2022-06-15 23:07:14 asciilifeform not looked into subj in rather long time
6ecbf80ef1af63dc…905db4c8…2022-06-15 23:11:02 <billymg> asciilifeform: gotta file paperwork to buy gun in US too, does that mean it's better to never buy a gun?
db98560b6ecbf80e…f1af63dc…2022-06-15 23:09:21 <asciilifeform> billymg: in most of usa can still buy w/ greens from human
f33c0574bbb48a27…bbb48a27…2022-06-15 23:09:56 <asciilifeform> ( gun in particular bought through Official process has well-understood minus, lol )
6937ea2153ff5639…011a5dca…2022-06-15 23:13:05 <billymg> so question becomes, better to have registered btc/firearm, or none at all?
37fca77d6937ea21…b2c9f0e3…2022-06-15 23:11:01 signpost doesn't plan to shoot pigs or avoid income tax any time soon.
2d74f44137fca77d…6937ea21…2022-06-15 23:13:25 <billymg> assuming you can't get the qty you want from wot-market
d3b5433c2d74f441…37fca77d…2022-06-15 23:11:26 <signpost> either getting out of this shitty country in a few years, or I expect things to be so unstable paperwork has nothing to do with whether a badged thug comes looking for my valuables.
3f979733d3b5433c…53ff5639…2022-06-15 23:11:33 <asciilifeform> if can only get Officially-registered putty knife, 'better than nuffin' obv.
17b9b91cd719db17…d719db17…2022-06-15 23:17:05 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's pov, 90% of the whole pt of btc tho is that nobody has any biz knowing how much you have
a332823417b9b91c…17b9b91c…2022-06-15 23:18:27 <asciilifeform> ( granted, often enuff someone can guess , and easily infer that it aint 0, but can't wire ~everyone~ to 220v all of the time )
97e34413b5f2b894…d3b5433c…2022-06-15 23:20:05 <signpost> well, that's the trouble with doing business in company store credits in the first place.
9c01923497e34413…2d74f441…2022-06-15 23:22:34 <billymg> asciilifeform: it's this "can't wire everyone to 220v" that makes the kraken model effective (even if not ideal)
962da82f9c019234…ce337685…2022-06-15 23:22:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-15 23:08:20 signpost: I can get company store credits into the thing reliably, coin to 1-addy out, and have L1 sitting within the thing which gives me some amount of confidence re: solvency.
2faa3110962da82f…97e34413…2022-06-15 23:20:41 <signpost> but I'll need the inflation haven of bitcoin to keep my time free enough to make the other thing happen.
29d291462faa3110…9c019234…2022-06-15 23:25:19 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006931 << this too. even if find someone in-wot to transact with, how to you handle the fiat side (for anything more than play amounts)?
e3985869bf85593f…b5f2b894…2022-06-16 02:49:21 <asciilifeform> billymg: funnily enuff never 1ce had a problem wiring to mp
49ea512729d29146…962da82f…2022-06-15 23:25:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-15 23:22:27 signpost: well, that's the trouble with doing business in company store credits in the first place.
5eaf1002e3985869…e3985869…2022-06-16 02:49:55 <asciilifeform> ( was doin' it just shortly up to the 'end days' )
b14bf14049ea5127…2faa3110…2022-06-15 23:23:05 <signpost> https://www.tradingview.com/x/fqddUVRi/ << it still does a great job of that on the longest scales, especially if you buy during winter.
c198445bb14bf140…b14bf140…2022-06-15 23:23:51 <signpost> billymg: you pay for your cult leader's industrial barrels of butt lube.
d34160962b9d6c73…2b9d6c73…2022-06-16 02:55:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006938 << was moar or less that iirc
364e2394c198445b…29d29146…2022-06-15 23:27:22 <billymg> signpost: lol, but i'd say even then it was a different world. i'd imagine in 2022 if tried to wire to mp it'd be "who you wiring that money to, and for what?"
9deedd05d3416096…49ea5127…2022-06-16 02:57:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-15 23:26:13 signpost: billymg: you pay for your cult leader's industrial barrels of butt lube.
9aa6ccfe82db5845…82db5845…2022-06-16 02:56:38 <asciilifeform> ( possibly magick # for that , was > x ; nfi )
85a3e6309aa6ccfe…9aa6ccfe…2022-06-16 02:57:42 asciilifeform still regularly sends fiatola wires, no one once asked 'why', goxen are factually over9000x ~moar~ fascist than fiatola banks...!
2fcd9eaa85a3e630…85a3e630…2022-06-16 03:03:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-15#1006937 << wat's the ln marked in blue there ?
61e561df2fcd9eaa…9deedd05…2022-06-16 03:05:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-15 23:25:27 signpost: https://www.tradingview.com/x/fqddUVRi/ << it still does a great job of that on the longest scales, especially if you buy during winter.
72ebfa2d61e561df…bf85593f…2022-06-16 13:09:19 <signpost> asciilifeform: some curve I plotted in a chartcrime app inspired by this https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/bitcoin-logarithmic-growth-curve/
1fa2fb18fceda060…364e2394…2022-06-16 15:01:56 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1006946 << every now and then i send money via wire (to myself) and always get asked (on both ends) what it's for. but i've found i can just say "remodeling" and/or "general expenses" and that's enough for them
24e8b78b1fa2fb18…61e561df…2022-06-16 15:01:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 02:58:33 asciilifeform: fwiw no one ever demanded 'for wat'
95f61e0b24e8b78b…1fa2fb18…2022-06-16 15:02:59 <billymg> in my case that's what the money is actually for, but not sure how that would go if trying to buy btc with it
5f0b370195f61e0b…95f61e0b…2022-06-16 15:04:15 <billymg> signpost: with the ongoing celsius implosion we might get even lower
f6e46a81e5c32669…2fcd9eaa…2022-06-16 15:02:38 <asciilifeform> billymg: iirc in march '20 bottom was ~3k
0098e19992aa69ed…f6e46a81…2022-06-16 15:03:11 <asciilifeform> ( which asciilifeform guesses is the actual bottom, consisting of 'humans' who bought with actual earned fiatola, after substracting the 'institutional' scum )
5beba5fe7bc5b511…92aa69ed…2022-06-16 15:07:22 <billymg> the celsius implosion, btw, the inevitable end result for anyone who fell for the "btc lending" scam (in any flavor)
5e22524c5beba5fe…24e8b78b…2022-06-16 15:07:23 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 billymg: the whole "don't sell your btc, borrow against it!" meme felt like such a huge psyop, often promoted by never-sell maxis
f569a8085e22524c…5beba5fe…2022-06-16 15:08:22 <billymg> any "yield farming", "staking", "earn in your sleep! (just give us your keys)" variation
06d9d4baf48e889b…8f4fa837…2022-06-16 15:12:23 <asciilifeform> well in e.g. 1929, folx owned paper stocks on actual paper, so at least had value as toilet paper at 'bottom'
d0bc2752d5ec0de7…fceda060…2022-06-16 15:14:45 <signpost> amusingly, '29 was on par with a BTC drawdown, ~90%
19fae66fd0bc2752…f48e889b…2022-06-16 15:17:59 <billymg> asciilifeform: if bottom is 0, what is the value of usd then?
34a7cfa49752d435…d0bc2752…2022-06-16 15:17:39 <signpost> who wanted a boring death, as the perennial thread goes.
e0caa1c434a7cfa4…1df0ed70…2022-06-16 15:53:01 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1006972 << I mean, where else would toilet paper go?
391573fce0caa1c4…5e22524c…2022-06-16 15:55:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 15:14:45 asciilifeform: well in e.g. 1929, folx owned paper stocks on actual paper, so at least had value as toilet paper at 'bottom'
529921cf5bef0aa4…bd4276c2…2022-06-16 15:59:53 <shinohai> In other implosions: https://twitter.com/finblox/status/1537414199890296838/photo/1
565c7146529921cf…34a7cfa4…2022-06-16 16:04:42 <signpost> sorry I can't get it up again until tether implodes.
507a749f66f26cc2…5bef0aa4…2022-06-16 16:13:18 <asciilifeform> wholly unrelatedly, crosspost before gets lost entirely in the lolcoin noise
c8fbfb05f976bf70…8fb8f560…2022-06-16 18:00:09 <awt> asciilifeform: whatever you want to call the price output of busybot
12f3f6c61a7709c7…2fb4635e…2022-06-16 18:01:47 <awt> I like to check doge since an acquaintance recently told me he bought $100k of doge.
ae9be42f989de8fe…565c7146…2022-06-16 17:53:19 <signpost> in which the food crisis is solved by mass redditard suicide.
0fc12839ae9be42f…989de8fe…2022-06-16 17:55:02 <asciilifeform> hey apparently even thinking folx often come to believe they can 'model' pyramid. so prolly will never run out.
8a30abd50fc12839…0fc12839…2022-06-16 19:14:54 <asciilifeform> billymg: apropos of nuffin, seems like one can't easily link to an /action in yer logotron
d0b7db780fc12839…b85dc74e…2023-01-02 17:21:53 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 phf: which is that you're trying to prove an argument, rather than make an honest discovery into the subject. you have no skin in game beyond the substance of the argument. if you for example, and by accident or intentionally, had some money running on a pyramid, might be a lot more interested in
2dd91daed0b7db78…0f6dbbc1…2023-01-02 17:23:39 <asciilifeform> hmm oddball echo ^ ? ( possib. on acct of desynced loggers )
28fe03fec79ed1dd…c79ed1dd…2023-01-02 17:32:56 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-02#1020128 << i'm a strong believer that an important property of `thinking folk` is to be able to think any kind of thought a thinking folk might want to, and separate it from the doing aspect. e.g. once can theorize on how it feels to b Ue- !e`1;"ġ`\
886c318028fe03fe…28fe03fe…2023-01-02 17:32:56 <phf> e fucked in the ass, without it necessarily leading to one going to a homo club the next day over. in fact thought policing of that manner is a quintessential non-thinking folk behavior. `what are you some kind of fag?` Ue- !e`1;"ġ`\
414939a988b7d96a…ee5fec91…2022-06-16 19:18:32 <billymg> imo should be the timestamps that are clickable
a6dd13b8886c3180…d0b7db78…2023-01-02 17:32:56 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 12:21:53 asciilifeform[cgra]: hey apparently even thinking folx often come to believe they can 'model' pyramid. so prolly will never run out.
bb526cee414939a9…414939a9…2022-06-16 19:18:42 <billymg> now that those are displayed in their own column
2c0ba4a0a6dd13b8…886c3180…2023-01-02 17:41:45 <phf> likewise, one can attempt to theorize a best game theoretical strategy for whatever situation. professional poker players like Sklansky took a degenerate, `lost the estate, the horse and the wife` activity, and modeled highly conservative winning strategies out of it. this is also toc^!كe,eX m){Eb
e3cbb90c2c0ba4a0…2c0ba4a0…2023-01-02 17:41:45 <phf> what places like goldman do when it comes to any kind of money markets. but that doesn't mean that i think that ~i~ could play an mmm, and win, and that's why i don't do it, because it's not my area of expertise. never the less to suggest that there's no analyzable, optimal strateg toc^!كe,eX m){Eb
318f0710283ee8ce…bb526cee…2022-06-16 19:18:53 <billymg> and is traditionally how it's done elsewhere on the web
99a588a7e3cbb90c…e3cbb90c…2023-01-02 17:41:45 <phf> y given acceptable risk tradeoffs is the opposite side of the mmm-rube coin, the all wise doomer skeptic toc^!كe,eX m){Eb
9042b02ee3cbb90c…c79ed1dd…2023-01-02 18:13:13 <asciilifeform> waitasec wat happened there? phf -- all good points, but the msg yer replying to is actually from june ?!
d2879390318f0710…283ee8ce…2022-06-16 19:16:48 <asciilifeform> oldthrd asciilifeform was to link, re prev thrd
b7cae2419042b02e…a6dd13b8…2023-01-02 18:13:13 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 12:21:53 asciilifeform[cgra]: hey apparently even thinking folx often come to believe they can 'model' pyramid. so prolly will never run out.
ab59f633d2879390…391573fc…2022-06-16 19:19:11 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: realizes that he has sumthing like a personal 'laws of robotics' for 'when to spend coin' (or rather, when not to) :
68387efab7cae241…b7cae241…2023-01-02 18:13:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 13:57:25 asciilifeform: hey apparently even thinking folx often come to believe they can 'model' pyramid. so prolly will never run out.
472cc1c1ab59f633…318f0710…2022-06-16 19:19:19 <billymg> though would have to be both handle and timestamp, since timestamps get hidden below a certain viewport width
89464fce472cc1c1…d2879390…2022-06-16 19:17:27 <asciilifeform> dunno how useful the display of timestamps, esp. given billymg's spiffy 'and then x hrs passed' pheature
a5b12eb5db190ee6…db190ee6…2023-01-02 18:13:48 <asciilifeform> not showed up in asciilifeform's station today, either (tho visible on dulapnet logger)
d9f05b6b89464fce…472cc1c1…2022-06-16 19:22:17 <billymg> asciilifeform: which is why hidden on smaller viewports
c21b295da5b12eb5…99a588a7…2023-01-02 18:14:55 <phf> lol, i was trying to figure out in vain why you decided to lift an old thread
6b8937eed9f05b6b…d9f05b6b…2022-06-16 19:22:35 <billymg> but on larger viewports, also no need to have mile-wide lines of text, makes for shit readability
adb7c3086b8937ee…6b8937ee…2022-06-16 19:23:04 <billymg> which is why i put e.g. nav into the right column instead of in the header
1df077f76b8937ee…00000000…2023-01-02 17:21:46 cgra speaking with duct-taped tkinter-blatta, irc-specifics and order buffer pulled out and/or taped shut. hi all!
8f1dab4591b537e0…c21b295d…2023-01-02 18:15:59 <phf> there's all kinds of mess going on if you compare bitdash and nosuchlabs.
8cf9d2238f1dab45…91b537e0…2023-01-02 18:16:18 <asciilifeform> pretty strange -- even if were quirk in cgra's station, the ancient msg oughta've been rejected as stale/dupe by erryone neh
81049e4ef0409aef…f0409aef…2022-06-16 19:26:39 <billymg> it's similar to how in printed text books there is typically a generous margin
6de603ec8cf9d223…8cf9d223…2023-01-02 18:16:35 <asciilifeform> phf: nosuchlabs logger is pretty useless atm, given as doesn't mark replays nor strip []s
f7c9fedd81049e4e…81049e4e…2022-06-16 19:27:09 <billymg> there is an ideal target for reading comfort, measured in number of characters per line
307d65786de603ec…6de603ec…2023-01-02 18:16:48 asciilifeform looks fwd to replacing it with an actual logger
8c83e9d6f7c9fedd…89464fce…2022-06-16 19:44:16 <asciilifeform> billymg: a, see, asciilifeform uses vertical displays exclusively
ff9fccd07181e8b1…7181e8b1…2022-06-16 19:45:05 <asciilifeform> ( and given that these displays only available in 9:16, there's moar or less 0 win from horiz. margins on'em )
f6224149ff9fccd0…f7c9fedd…2022-06-16 20:01:32 <billymg> asciilifeform: i took that into account too. thought to myself "alf and probably others read on narrower displays, so should be sure to adjust layout accordingly". at 989px the timestamps are hidden and the nav goes to the top, and at 766px the handle and payload columns collapse into one
c35b5e0ef6224149…f6224149…2022-06-16 20:10:47 billymg still sees layouts all over the web where the "desktop" margins are maintained in the "mobile" view, resulting in text columns with 2-3 words per line
2882d80b17519881…0d3aadd7…2023-01-02 18:17:54 asciilifeform looked at own debug log, defo didn't emit a re-edition of that line today
f2f054d2c35b5e0e…ff9fccd0…2022-06-16 20:21:40 <asciilifeform> billymg: fwiw even on asciilifeform's vertical display, there's a massive deadspace on the right where (on top of pg) chan list
fbb414682882d80b…2882d80b…2023-01-02 18:19:47 <asciilifeform> dollars to doughnuts it's a bug in getdata handler in blatta; in debug log, asciilifeform sees over9000 getdata responses to cgra
60fdf761f2f054d2…c35b5e0e…2022-06-16 20:25:02 <billymg> asciilifeform: dead space on right while the chan list is on top? not sure i follow
79ccfa60fbb41468…8f1dab45…2023-01-02 18:20:03 <phf> well, as far as `why extra packets` could be that nosuchlabs doesn't have history of packets going that far? so when cgra getdata'd for packets, some other station provided him with those packets and nosuchlabs decided to fill its own holes?
5822f19860fdf761…f2f054d2…2022-06-16 20:22:41 <asciilifeform> would make some kinda sense if it were 'frame' and could switch chans from it at any pt along the page, but still gotta scroll to top... so wainot have'em at top of pg like in asciilifeform's
2921c87179ccfa60…fbb41468…2023-01-02 18:21:05 <asciilifeform> phf: also possible. but doesn't reveal why ancient msg got processed as fresh somewhere
d3ea2e815822f198…5822f198…2022-06-16 20:22:59 <asciilifeform> billymg: the chan list occupies chunk of right hand all the way along the scroll
f7bf6e1e2921c871…79ccfa60…2023-01-02 18:21:08 <phf> yeah, combined with some kind of bug in getdata (like maybe station when receiving getdata thinks it's a fresh packet, and broadcasts it
0891ccd7d3ea2e81…60fdf761…2022-06-16 20:25:43 <billymg> when the chan list moves to the top, there shouldn't be any extra margin on the right
f09b3e46f7bf6e1e…2921c871…2023-01-02 18:21:25 <asciilifeform> (timestamps, recall, are part of the message)
b6ce978aebe02552…ebe02552…2022-06-16 20:26:28 <billymg> asciilifeform: what's your viewport width, in pixels?
270f77dc89be77ea…f7bf6e1e…2023-01-02 18:22:27 <phf> i remember awt saying, but i might be misquoting, that timestamps are not checked at all in blatta. i don't check timestamps either though
58e8bcf8dd6d69fe…2eafe6f1…2022-06-16 20:24:51 <asciilifeform> and in e.g. emacs, asciilifeform uses from 0th pixel to the last.
d90019ed242d3321…2b14e411…2023-01-02 18:23:06 <awt> In the past we've had issues due to clocks being out of sync
5d222bedc3b301ee…1df077f7…2023-01-02 18:24:22 <cgra> awt: seems like it's still a mess, don't see stuff in correct order yet on my window, for one. plus whatever else funny going on underneath, judging by the current pestnet events
36258ce35d222bed…1771352c…2023-01-02 18:24:38 <signpost> ah stochastic conversation starter feature being tested
223b913f36258ce3…c3b301ee…2023-01-02 18:24:59 <awt> dulapbot was likely catching up on cgra's selfchain, that's for sure.
1615c08fbe4ac7ea…ac963ee3…2022-06-16 20:27:00 asciilifeform not knows how many 'css pixels' it ends up
fdcdd8231615c08f…be4ac7ea…2022-06-16 20:29:23 <billymg> people usually run high dpi displays at some ratio, like 1.5x, 2x
5ddbb05994292052…94292052…2023-01-02 18:26:32 <awt> getdata responses are the only types of messages that can sneak through the timestamp check.
4da330655ddbb059…89be77ea…2023-01-02 18:29:12 <asciilifeform> awt: likely the boojum is in where the thing decides whether to rebroadcast a msg (i.e. erroneously rebroadcast a getdata response)
4ab8e38c6b9b8b04…fdcdd823…2022-06-16 20:29:42 <billymg> otherwise everything would require a magnifying glass to read
b4f8fb994da33065…8f56c700…2023-01-02 18:32:52 <phf> signpost, a 2am irish pub brawl of a conversation starter!
307d5d124ab8e38c…6b9b8b04…2022-06-16 20:27:28 <asciilifeform> why would it, if fonts config'd correctly ?
8e56568f307d5d12…307d5d12…2022-06-16 20:27:42 <asciilifeform> i've simply set the dpi in xorg to the correct #
bdb07506312a2073…b4f8fb99…2023-01-02 18:36:58 <phf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZyNLZZjMs&t=163s
06535665334ecb8c…334ecb8c…2022-06-16 20:28:33 <asciilifeform> but mno, wouldn't remotely contemplate bitmap scaling, why the fuck buy a '4k' screen for 2-3k$ then!
7c7bfe3c214e9ef5…214e9ef5…2023-01-02 18:39:58 <signpost> peering looks active aside the chain sync chaos
f01f9fff06535665…52ab85c7…2022-06-16 20:30:58 <billymg> asciilifeform: what does this website say is your width in "css pixels"? https://www.mydevice.io/
1a3f481f7c7bfe3c…5ddbb059…2023-01-02 18:40:32 <awt> asciilifeform: possibly - obviously tested syncs without that happening, however.
93dfa24a1a3f481f…a1f9d1c4…2023-01-02 18:54:29 <lobbes> welcome cgra! likewise, peering appears active from my station logs
d926543e34e9e1f2…f01f9fff…2022-06-16 20:31:21 <billymg> asciilifeform: i believe Xft.dpi is for font dpi
bbc9c5b49b0a72dc…154f3c86…2022-06-16 20:32:02 <billymg> i think it's based on when 72dpi was considered the standard
86b760afbbc9c5b4…9b0a72dc…2022-06-16 20:29:56 <asciilifeform> right but how it gets these from 2160 etc is mystery to asciilifeform
3334cd9e86b760af…bbc9c5b4…2022-06-16 20:33:02 <billymg> 2160/2 = 1080 (1px off, perhaps accounting for border on the window, no idea)
099911a74b85e25e…86b760af…2022-06-16 20:31:21 <asciilifeform> rright but bitmaps display as expected
88c4d901099911a7…099911a7…2022-06-16 20:31:47 <asciilifeform> (e.g. 10x10pixel actually shows up as such if screenshat w/ 'gimp' etc)
c4a42fcf65bbe08d…5cb1435e…2022-06-16 20:37:31 <billymg> 2x is the thing that makes 4k screen worth buying
6317fe39c4a42fcf…ab59f633…2022-06-16 20:37:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 20:30:56 asciilifeform: but mno, wouldn't remotely contemplate bitmap scaling, why the fuck buy a '4k' screen for 2-3k$ then!
b13c26d36317fe39…c4a42fcf…2022-06-16 20:45:53 billymg guesses that the output of `xrdb -query | grep dpi` for asciilifeform will be "192"
f18df19aaea4526a…aea4526a…2022-06-16 21:15:44 billymg just had a lox and cream cheese bagel for the first time in 3+ years, homemade bagel too
d4ce26b6f18df19a…f18df19a…2022-06-16 21:19:04 <billymg> anyway, was wrong about the 72dpi standard, was actually 96. and that's where "css pixels" and "2x" comes from
47c60776d4ce26b6…6317fe39…2022-06-16 21:19:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 20:32:03 billymg: i think it's based on when 72dpi was considered the standard
8486550447c60776…d4ce26b6…2022-06-16 21:24:30 <billymg> and since (i'm guessing) asciilifeform's Xft.dpi is set to 192, resulting in 1080 "css pixels" of viewport width from his 2160 pixel screen, this puts it about 90px > the breakpoint at which the layout moves the chan nav out of the right margin and into the header -- so yes
96454d3184865504…47c60776…2022-06-16 21:24:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 20:01:32 billymg: asciilifeform: i took that into account too. thought to myself "alf and probably others read on narrower displays, so should be sure to adjust layout accordingly". at 989px the timestamps are hidden and the nav goes to the top, and at 766px the handle and payload columns collapse into
9a2064c596454d31…84865504…2022-06-16 21:26:29 <billymg> hrm, that got cut off weird: ...so yes, the empty margin would still be there, giving about 90-95 characters per line for the payload column
576e72449a2064c5…65bbe08d…2022-06-16 21:52:21 <asciilifeform> billymg: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bmg_log_screenshit.png for ref.
d805270b576e7244…9a2064c5…2022-06-16 21:57:04 <billymg> asciilifeform: yup, pretty much exactly what i was able to recreate here by adjusting my viewport to the same 1080px width you're using
a0909b1b4d0a15c3…576e7244…2022-06-16 21:55:11 <asciilifeform> so, possibly see why loox oddly lopsided here
97dcbe4ea0909b1b…a0909b1b…2022-06-16 21:55:42 asciilifeform doesn't use any palpable margins in emacs or terminals, or in own logotron
2772fc0a97dcbe4e…4d0a15c3…2022-06-16 22:02:36 <billymg> asciilifeform: i thought you kept your code to 80 char per line?
2992d75d6e43b393…6e43b393…2022-06-16 22:00:41 <asciilifeform> most of the time, working on heathen coad tho
59c7d1b52992d75d…2992d75d…2022-06-16 22:01:37 <asciilifeform> nor does asciilifeform hard-margin human-readable text (e.g. pest spec) when working on such
db1da0a959c7d1b5…2772fc0a…2022-06-16 22:04:53 <billymg> what's the purpose of the 80 char per line limit in your own code?
4c87204e4613c9e8…4613c9e8…2022-06-16 22:04:07 <asciilifeform> printer w/ 80col, and asciilifeform writes on the margins...
cef9490a1390e8d0…1390e8d0…2022-06-16 22:06:58 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007086 << i think this might be the answer here
e2fe27a6cef9490a…96454d31…2022-06-16 22:06:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 22:04:00 asciilifeform: nor does asciilifeform hard-margin human-readable text (e.g. pest spec) when working on such
22310bdae2fe27a6…f8d66b4a…2022-06-16 22:05:13 <asciilifeform> the lcd already feels painfully narrow as it is
2f72763622310bda…22310bda…2022-06-16 22:06:32 asciilifeform has 3 of'em, cuz neither 'eizo' nor afaik anyone else makes a 6480x3840 display lol
012523522f727636…2f727636…2022-06-16 22:09:09 <asciilifeform> ( before anyone suggests '8k tv' -- not ever yet seen a tv that aint utter garbage for static text ; nor, suspect, will reasonable vga card ever support these )
5c96b04001252352…01252352…2022-06-16 22:10:00 asciilifeform is 1 of those people who can see pwm flicker at ~any~ freq. whatsoever, etc
af4dc0de5c96b040…cef9490a…2022-06-16 22:18:02 <billymg> i actually may have misinterpreted what you meant by "hard margin" when referencing the pest spec
86dbb5baaf4dc0de…af4dc0de…2022-06-16 22:18:26 <billymg> hard margin means adding returns beyond x chars per line?
c9b8eda586dbb5ba…86dbb5ba…2022-06-16 22:23:45 <billymg> in my mirror of your pest spec, i didn't add any hard line breaks, but i capped the max-width of the text column (for reading comfort)
0da8a13fc9b8eda5…c9b8eda5…2022-06-16 22:24:23 <billymg> you'll find this in printed textbooks as well, and magazines, newspapers, fiction novels, etc.
104fb4040da8a13f…0da8a13f…2022-06-16 22:24:47 <billymg> text doesn't usually run to the edges, or even as far as the printer is capable of printing
2e35ddd9104fb404…104fb404…2022-06-16 22:25:31 <billymg> and in magazines and newspapers text is often broken into columns, because the font is so small that a single column would result in two many characters per line
08207422cfa7a0a1…3f9eed9b…2022-06-16 22:32:48 <shinohai> 13C05a04n 07b08l03a09t10t11a 02h12a06n13d05l04e 07g08h03e09y 10s11h02i12t 06?13?05?04?07?
f795a48ed98d29ad…e2fe27a6…2022-06-16 22:37:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 22:35:13 shinohai[asciilifeform|signpost]: 13C05a04n 07b08l03a09t10t11a 02h12a06n13d05l04e 07g08h03e09y 10s11h02i12t 06?13?05?04?07?
e3b72fc8fdfe14df…fdfe14df…2022-06-16 22:38:17 <billymg> which means only in the logger www is it not rendered correctly
f7cd1992e3b72fc8…e3b72fc8…2022-06-16 22:38:33 <billymg> shinohai: i'm guessing this is some unicode thing
698cacb9f7cd1992…deb96409…2022-06-16 22:36:45 <shinohai> Yeah it's a weechat script got me curious .....
35390f98698cacb9…f7cd1992…2022-06-16 22:48:38 <billymg> shinohai: it's odd though because i've seen unicode printed in the logger before
1728d42b35390f98…f795a48e…2022-06-16 22:48:39 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-29 phf: thread 😂😂😂 no cap fr fr
df71fe2135390f98…35390f98…2022-06-16 22:51:48 <billymg> uh-oh, did that crash the bot's blatta station
909143481728d42b…a20c90ea…2022-06-19 14:45:40 <shinohai> meh still getting error on 9976 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=xPY8
c9c1614ddf71fe21…698cacb9…2022-06-16 22:49:49 <shinohai> the script billymg if curious https://weechat.org/scripts/source/prism.py.html/
608aaa98a9ebec87…a9ebec87…2022-06-16 23:25:40 <asciilifeform> billymg: indeed, similar on my www, to house the kilometre of sidebar (where else to put it..?)
3a2d7a0890914348…90914348…2022-06-19 14:53:38 <shinohai> annnnnnnd son of a goddamn bitch now blatta wont start on bot station
b355c629c9c1614d…df71fe21…2022-06-16 22:55:12 <billymg> ok, so i won't echo the offending line again, but the line returned by this reference did crash the blatta station the bot was connected to
e4f5498d608aaa98…f020bca1…2022-06-16 23:28:27 <billymg> asciilifeform: when fully moved to pest i might remove the chan nav altogether
6b1c10c8b355c629…1728d42b…2022-06-16 22:58:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 22:48:39 billymg: shinohai: it's odd though because i've seen unicode printed in the logger before
48e084c4e4f5498d…e4f5498d…2022-06-16 23:29:40 <billymg> but i think the bigger point is: right margin > left margin != bad
63198d0771f99552…71f99552…2022-06-19 14:58:16 <shinohai> ok bot will have to catch back up, db barfed so nuked and started over.
55ad0997db7ca34b…db7ca34b…2022-06-16 23:01:11 <billymg> awt: does the 9977 version fix the unicode crash?
d51402d9db7ca34b…6b1c10c8…2022-06-16 23:01:13 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 7m
8591d17c48e084c4…48e084c4…2022-06-16 23:30:36 <billymg> i think you're just having some kind of ocd reaction because it's not the same as your logger
b90a77a748e084c4…e30f9adc…2022-06-16 23:31:06 asciilifeform not begridges billymg his layout, simply describing own preferred flavour where symmetrical if possible and tries to use most of display width
d9dfcaa855ad0997…55ad0997…2022-06-16 23:03:21 <billymg> awt: does the 9977 version fix the unicode crash? (sorry if dupe)
daef41ea55ad0997…608aaa98…2022-06-16 23:29:02 <asciilifeform> hmm for sumreason thought my client would print the backlog as it getdata's
d398055f8591d17c…1e38f264…2022-06-16 23:34:34 <asciilifeform> possib., but because not same as asciilifeform's anyffin else (other than own www, which doesn't spend much time looking at)
e7324dc5603fcad1…8651dd95…2022-06-17 02:14:59 <billymg> crawlerbot now on 9976 also -- seems to be a backlog of messages though (i see them replaying in the blatta logs)
28a40f31d398055f…d398055f…2022-06-16 23:35:20 <asciilifeform> at any rate, part of the win from having multiple loggers, folx can make what works best for'em
36c63828f4013e79…d9dfcaa8…2022-06-16 23:16:23 <billymg> yeah, it was some exception in python: unable to decode as ascii (or something along those lines, i lost it when i restarted the station)
67a2cbaae7324dc5…e7324dc5…2022-06-17 02:16:06 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007177 << ty awt, seems to be working
7cd98a4f28a40f31…28a40f31…2022-06-16 23:36:04 asciilifeform intends to stand up pestnet logger when billymg gets around to plugging in the db export thing
aff0cfc036c63828…36c63828…2022-06-16 23:19:18 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007078 << i just realized loper-os.org homepage does the same thing. if you scroll down past the end of the sidebar layout becomes "lopsided"
b7e3400c67a2cbaa…179bf191…2022-06-17 02:15:57 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 5m ago; last restart: 5m ago
28d99b6767a2cbaa…d4a773ac…2022-06-17 02:16:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 01:31:27 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: 9976 allows unidurds in messages. Please don't send any uniturds until a reasonable number of people have updated. Available here: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch
2e1859a367a2cbaa…26276732…2022-06-17 02:21:11 <asciilifeform> awt et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/blatta_replay_screenshit.png
222d04e7aff0cfc0…d51402d9…2022-06-16 23:19:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 21:54:43 asciilifeform: billymg: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bmg_log_screenshit.png for ref.
b6c5b299aff0cfc0…aff0cfc0…2022-06-16 23:21:14 <billymg> awt: for reference, the error: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=c06w
75761c8728d99b67…18f11fe3…2022-06-17 02:17:20 <asciilifeform> awt: hm seems like not all replays get marked as such
4289f10a2e1859a3…67a2cbaa…2022-06-17 02:26:10 <billymg> updated the downloads mirror with the latest version also
080cbb97e9cdeb79…222d04e7…2022-06-16 23:41:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-12 18:04:51 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-08#1006534 << this is live now
f417b884b6c5b299…b6c5b299…2022-06-16 23:25:45 <billymg> asciilifeform: pretty much any website layout with a sidebar is going to look "lopsided" after you scroll past the end of the sidebar (yes, sidebar for logger is very short, but keep in mind was designed when plan was for each user to have his own channel)
0c6b4bad02bad7cb…02bad7cb…2022-06-16 23:40:11 <asciilifeform> 'UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xf0 in position 62: ordinal not in range(128)' but where was the uniturd ?
94b87b1d4112220b…2e1859a3…2022-06-17 02:24:20 <asciilifeform> awt: per spec oughta for each msg that's outta order, neh
b2053be894b87b1d…94b87b1d…2022-06-17 02:24:30 <asciilifeform> otherwise how the hell woudlja know it's a replay, if mixed in w/ currents
2d9b32ae655f5530…2f7acf7f…2022-06-16 23:47:14 <billymg> asciilifeform: i suspect old messages being replayed somewhere, my main station has crashed 4 times now
6f4fde0be15e1cdc…4112220b…2022-06-17 02:34:35 <awt> Notice means everything after was received after the timestamp in the notice. Otherwise quite noisy imo
af12ce016f4fde0b…e15e1cdc…2022-06-17 02:25:41 <asciilifeform> noisy, arguably, but old and new msgs shouldn't intermix w/out any mark
4a43f6c504466e70…04466e70…2022-06-16 23:45:09 <asciilifeform> odd that they get decoded (attempted?) but not displayed
7c67155daf12ce01…6f4fde0b…2022-06-17 02:35:17 <awt> Imagine replay notice for all bazillion lines when syncing
e724c42c4a43f6c5…4a43f6c5…2022-06-16 23:45:23 asciilifeform didn't see a single oldmsg printed after getdata'd so far
8fcf0ad87c67155d…af12ce01…2022-06-17 02:26:03 <asciilifeform> ( ideally would magically appear upstream in text, but 'teletype' of irc not allows this... )
4c85bcb5e724c42c…2d9b32ae…2022-06-16 23:49:47 <billymg> since this message didn't make it to the logs: i prefer to optimize text layouts for legibility and reading comfort, not "max chars per line"
2680af0f8fcf0ad8…8fcf0ad8…2022-06-17 02:26:10 <asciilifeform> awt: is exactly what asked for in spec tho
a1200daf71233d45…e724c42c…2022-06-16 23:48:21 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform doesn't disagree, simply laid out desk so the center lcd loox like sheet of paper in center vision
31784dd7a1200daf…71233d45…2022-06-16 23:51:00 <billymg> let's see if this crashes the stations again: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-16#1007147
ccd21dd2d46725ad…471ff739…2022-06-17 02:27:18 <asciilifeform> 'If the Timestamp of a GetData response (or the earliest message in a chain of responses) pre-dates that of the message most recently displayed to the console, the operator must be informed of this, by prepending said Timestamp to the text emitted to the console.'
ca01be0231784dd7…080cbb97…2022-06-16 23:51:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 23:42:02 asciilifeform: ugh why blatta barfed there ?
94552976100c125b…100c125b…2022-06-17 02:28:16 <asciilifeform> awt: 'end of replay' mark still dun tell you precisely which msgs were replays, neh
cb6054038617dbfa…31784dd7…2022-06-16 23:54:49 <billymg> shinohai: perhaps he fixed in 9977 (i haven't updated yet, probably should)
fa744ab40969d3a7…0969d3a7…2022-06-17 02:29:05 <asciilifeform> so you have some way of knowing each of'em wasn't just nao sent
6e49bbca9ec89a40…1a7709c7…2022-06-16 23:51:57 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 55 days 7 hours 31 minutes and 57 seconds
6c128d99cb605403…cb605403…2022-06-16 23:55:33 <billymg> crawlerbot probably down, i haven't logged into the ec2 box yet to look
46823b44fa744ab4…fa744ab4…2022-06-17 02:29:32 <asciilifeform> picture, somebody logs in after 2wks at sea
179bf19170f7a1c8…00158387…2022-06-16 23:57:31 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 4h 48m ago; last restart: 4h 48m ago
a29aba85398d139b…46823b44…2022-06-17 02:29:41 <asciilifeform> starts seeing ancient msgs intermixed w/ current convo
476715c7179bf191…70f7a1c8…2022-06-17 00:01:36 <billymg> ^ mega delayed response, stats also don't look right
b1d5c2b5a29aba85…a29aba85…2022-06-17 02:29:56 <asciilifeform> awt: he prolly uses his client, which evidently not suffered from given eggog
8070cef3476715c7…12f3f6c6…2022-06-17 00:09:35 <awt> billymg: I'm currently baking 9976 which fixes the unicode crash. No crashes here either.
23f14f1c96154fb1…8617dbfa…2022-06-17 01:08:51 <asciilifeform> awt: see if can make a kludge where eggogs are caught & logged, but proggy not dies
80b94d0788401a65…88401a65…2022-06-17 01:36:29 <awt> On 9977 it should not be possible to even broadcast a message with uniturds in it.
559768ad80b94d07…80b94d07…2022-06-17 01:38:23 <awt> 9976 allows unidurds in messages. Please don't send any uniturds until a reasonable number of people have updated. Available here: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9976-fecal-sprincle.vpatch
4284b274559768ad…559768ad…2022-06-17 01:40:51 <awt> Perhaps phf can't help asciilifeform test that messages from uniturd handles are dropped and logged. This is very difficult to test in blatta, since it's not even possible to register a uniturd peer.
566cff52c570abbc…325b2172…2022-06-17 02:01:29 <billymg> ok, i'm on 9976 now, along with bitbot (crawlerbot next)
d4a773ac56cb5d33…ca01be02…2022-06-17 02:01:45 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m
68602d18d4a773ac…72ee6393…2022-06-17 02:07:30 <billymg> ^ upgrading to 9976 seems to have dislodged something on bitbot's station
581b4fd9006cb77a…70b7c1e1…2022-06-17 02:08:29 <billymg> asciilifeform: update to 9976, fixed the issue for me
70b7c1e168602d18…68602d18…2022-06-17 02:08:07 <billymg> (none of the messages are showing up in the logs, but i'm getting them in my console here)
b8c7853168602d18…f474e76c…2022-06-17 15:48:33 PeterL looking forward to having prod implemented for when sation starts, seems silly that it sits there potentially indefinately until somebody says something and then I get pages of replays
4aef04116ca40c84…b8c78531…2022-06-17 15:49:22 <PeterL> also, I agree with asciilifeform, it is not clear which messages are new and which are still replays
e2773fc04aef0411…6ca40c84…2022-06-17 15:49:46 <signpost> yup, what's the current notion, turn them into notices?
17ef14249a5e2ac1…00000000…2022-06-19 14:58:35 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 2 minutes and 57 seconds
57b9ada717ef1424…05aebc29…2022-06-19 15:01:02 <asciilifeform> shinohai: was this still the very same uniturd bug as prior ?
9d91cfaed399b85b…28d99b67…2022-06-17 15:52:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 02:29:40 asciilifeform: 'If the Timestamp of a GetData response (or the earliest message in a chain of responses) pre-dates that of the message most recently displayed to the console, the operator must be informed of this, by prepending said Timestamp to the text emitted to the console.'
a20c90ead5d6d387…d5d6d387…2022-06-19 14:40:57 <shinohai> heh guess the station finally received last nite's turd
71a042e85fdcb1d9…d399b85b…2022-06-17 15:51:17 <asciilifeform> would be a++ incidentally to have a www logotron that reorders correctly (i.e. eats from pest db, rather than irc frontend)
bb74a480554ee28a…80abefe6…2022-06-19 15:04:14 <asciilifeform> last msg in log strangely not tip of chain
22f0ed5a71a042e8…5fdcb1d9…2022-06-17 15:51:28 <signpost> eventually a bespoke UI can handle more clearly too
9353413f80abefe6…9a5e2ac1…2022-06-19 15:05:08 <billymg> ^ hey neat, seeing "replay" annotations in my console
70430491bb74a480…bb74a480…2022-06-19 15:05:44 <asciilifeform> somehow nao nuffing is going to dulapbot
081322bbbb74a480…12780154…2022-06-19 15:06:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 11:03:25 busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $19449.07
c15cfb8e081322bb…70430491…2022-06-19 15:06:45 <asciilifeform> blatta imho desperately needs 'prod' mechanism
9d97997862d00c05…62d00c05…2022-06-17 15:52:22 asciilifeform doesn't expect anyone to bake a gui any time soon, given the epic gnarl of anyffin to do with guis
76cb11cee4d5bbda…c15cfb8e…2022-06-19 15:07:34 <asciilifeform> shinohai: that's with 9976, aha ? wai no one else choked, then ?
bc68b5cbf65f8202…76cb11ce…2022-06-19 15:09:50 <asciilifeform> dulapbot not yet crashed, but seems perpetually 1msg 'behind'
277c72bdaacb8e7b…aacb8e7b…2022-06-17 15:55:58 <signpost> weechat plugin might also be capable of rewriting buffer history and scrolling up to the oldest new message, and rendering all previously unseen with a highlight or similar.
a4d293d124675b19…bc68b5cb…2022-06-19 15:11:27 <asciilifeform> aand seems to have skipped a msg and not issued a getdata anywhere
73187052bc68b5cb…24675b19…2022-06-19 15:11:50 <shinohai> But indeed is 9976 on bot and still: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 6115-6117: ordinal not in range(128)
1e7d8e35277c72bd…277c72bd…2022-06-17 15:56:12 <signpost> none of these things are urgent, just throwing ideas out.
0b69795773187052…a4d293d1…2022-06-19 15:13:43 <asciilifeform> awt et al: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mv4g
863bf90073187052…9353413f…2022-06-19 15:16:08 <billymg> asciilifeform: now that your logger is up i'm noticing that relying on the message idx is not reliable for line refs between the two
11d61f7d1e7d8e35…9d979978…2022-06-17 15:56:33 asciilifeform currently pesting on weechat, not overly fond of it on acct of difficulty of clean cut'n'paste
a85b78b1863bf900…0b697957…2022-06-19 15:14:10 <asciilifeform> billymg: the lack of a working reorder does mean that the indices will ~never line up
5ba63f6611d61f7d…11d61f7d…2022-06-17 15:56:45 <asciilifeform> is the reason wai used xchat & similar historically
888a035ea85b78b1…a85b78b1…2022-06-19 15:14:43 <asciilifeform> billymg: the only way to have working indices would be to have a pestdb-aware logotron, rather than one using irc frontend
034584b01d63b82c…1d63b82c…2022-06-17 15:57:38 <signpost> dunno how extensible erc is, but would assume "very".
0b27c8a2d3eea798…863bf900…2022-06-19 15:18:12 <billymg> synced indices is a really nice feature of the logger
92841855034584b0…5ba63f66…2022-06-17 15:59:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: seems that you'd have to either implement entire pestron in elisp (ugh) or use some kinda glue (and then simply anuther irc frontend?)
e41f9cac0b27c8a2…d3eea798…2022-06-19 15:16:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: right, but how are they to sync if 2 loggers are catching msgs in ~random order
e2e8c59392841855…92841855…2022-06-17 15:59:56 <asciilifeform> ideally imho gui pestron would be monolithic
39c4888ce41f9cac…e41f9cac…2022-06-19 15:17:11 <asciilifeform> would need logotron that actually eats from db and displays in netchain order.
a10884cfe2e8c593…e2e8c593…2022-06-17 16:00:56 <asciilifeform> ( and support threading, etc. and other knobs absent from irc frontend )
699f621d1cebf5b4…1cebf5b4…2022-06-19 15:20:17 <billymg> and then which db? will depend on pest implementation one is running
b85a8059d02d539d…d02d539d…2022-06-17 16:02:41 signpost found mcclim to be a hobbyist joke (fielded a product that used this for a minimal restaurant kitchen UI)
86033d84699f621d…39c4888c…2022-06-19 15:18:28 <asciilifeform> billymg: imho ideal logotron would be integrated into given pestron
46cd9265b85a8059…b85a8059…2022-06-17 16:02:54 <signpost> actually moved to mcclim from w/e the cl Qt binding is called.
da2a0b0086033d84…699f621d…2022-06-19 15:21:32 <billymg> asciilifeform: right, that does seem like the only option, i'm just thinking of how to salvage parts of this one and retrofit to read from pest db
f9e4413846cd9265…ab1c78aa…2022-06-17 16:13:21 <awt> I attempted prepending timestamps at one point but ran into some issue.
2ba576dfda2a0b00…86033d84…2022-06-19 15:19:44 asciilifeform observes that dulapbot is still continuously 1 msg 'behind'
81b5e3272ba576df…2ba576df…2022-06-19 15:21:13 <asciilifeform> which makes 0 sense per asciilifeform's understanding of the protocol -- wtf is it doing with ea. nth msg from asciilifeform (its only peer currently) ?
618364b389ad7f0a…f9e44138…2022-06-17 16:14:40 <awt> signpost: that's a concern in certain cases but not what I ran into. Could have been something dumb like the colon in the timestamp confusing the IRC client.
c2df7eae81b5e327…81b5e327…2022-06-19 15:21:58 <asciilifeform> seems to be sitting on it until n+1st, ea. time; but only since some time this morning
f0e793ca618364b3…618364b3…2022-06-17 16:16:43 <awt> Also, as I said above, a notice per line makes it really unreadable.
c5ea9aa9c2df7eae…c2df7eae…2022-06-19 15:23:27 <asciilifeform> loox like they get stuck in a buffer and only released after n+1st msg, erry time
d24d37def0e793ca…a10884cf…2022-06-17 16:07:25 <asciilifeform> prepending is potentially quite gnarly (may need to re-chunk)
05016e0fc5ea9aa9…c5ea9aa9…2022-06-19 15:24:13 <asciilifeform> billymg's bot ~not~ behaving this way, but perhaps only because has multiple peers?
f38f8955d24d37de…f0e793ca…2022-06-17 16:20:47 <awt> Bouncers pull it off somehow. IIRC the text is formatted in italic.
f0bb26cef38f8955…f38f8955…2022-06-17 16:25:05 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007287 << indeed or even just a script you could run to dump the logs into less or whatever reader you prefer.
f5671b33f0bb26ce…9d91cfae…2022-06-17 16:18:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 15:57:13 signpost: pest-aware logotron's a fine step closer.
5ed4e983f5671b33…d24d37de…2022-06-17 16:16:01 <asciilifeform> awt: znc in particular uses some kinda oddball extension to protocol, which some clients support
639840336f6c4df9…6f6c4df9…2022-06-19 15:40:47 <billymg> ^ last message got there eventually, after some delay
25d95ddb5ed4e983…5ed4e983…2022-06-17 16:41:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007298 << afaik all attempts at gui glue are doomed to be either intimately os-specific (and straightjacketed firmly into whatever knobs $os supports) or 'hobbyist joke'; or, often enuff, ~both~ of these
8c223bf025d95ddb…f5671b33…2022-06-17 16:44:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 16:05:05 signpost: found mcclim to be a hobbyist joke (fielded a product that used this for a minimal restaurant kitchen UI)
a864225877dd0033…f2781509…2022-06-19 16:17:28 <awt> ^ Yes, the buffer gets dumped eventually even if the requested GETDATA packet never arrives.
131b53a38c223bf0…4aef0411…2022-06-17 19:17:16 <PeterL> billymg: do I remember correctly that there is some way to get your logs as black text on white? the white text on black background hurts my eyes if I try reading more than a minute or two
6961401ea8642258…a8642258…2022-06-19 16:18:28 <awt> Why response wasn't sent or received is yet a myestery
1f2239049368591d…9368591d…2022-06-19 16:22:06 <awt> Ok I think actually no GETDATA packets were not sent or received
9c04f36235f3c4b9…a634f0a3…2022-06-19 16:25:36 <awt> The strategy I chose was to collect as many GETDATA responses as reasonably possible before dumping and considering the chain broken.
4f27d73f8bd14665…f0bb26ce…2022-06-18 15:27:11 <awt> shinohai seems not to have recovered from the emotibomb
34970719f3aee230…4f27d73f…2022-06-18 15:27:47 <awt> I have a ticker bot as well. I'll bring it in at some point.
98acfafb34970719…34970719…2022-06-18 15:29:29 <awt> Currently price is $19014 - was < 19k minutes ago
58349e5de3634f88…3f9b944b…2022-06-18 15:47:03 asciilifeform unrelatedly, considered 'wainot rebake pest spec in latex, iirc can shit edible html, embedding diagrams etc' but not found any clean mechanism for this
b8070cd358349e5d…58349e5d…2022-06-18 15:48:11 <asciilifeform> seems like all the pertinent tools work by shitting pdf and mechanically htmlizing same
99b33f37e50d8eeb…398b3742…2022-06-18 15:48:44 asciilifeform worked for many yrs, but never attempted htmlism w/ subj
7591858299b33f37…99b33f37…2022-06-18 15:50:25 asciilifeform would like option for printer-friendly output of spec, but has 0 intention of maintaining 2 parallel copies
a044cb2775918582…75918582…2022-06-18 15:50:55 asciilifeform would also like to bake illustrations, but again put off by idea of juggling over9000 gifs etc
e1e74c10a044cb27…1f668736…2022-06-18 15:54:18 <billymg> asciilifeform: you can't embed images with markdown?
e855291de1e74c10…a044cb27…2022-06-18 15:52:06 <asciilifeform> latex worx a++, and doesn't suffer from the idiocy of 'markdown' where can't reorder sections without doctoring over9000 links etc
6b15f347e855291d…e1e74c10…2022-06-18 15:54:42 <billymg> and svg would probably be the best format for diagrams, like you used for your pest logo
6fb52e316b15f347…e855291d…2022-06-18 15:52:19 <asciilifeform> billymg: can't ~generate~ images with same
6e449cd26fb52e31…6fb52e31…2022-06-18 15:52:33 asciilifeform wants a single-source spec as currently 4evah
17bcdf0cb7358eb9…02bfa82d…2022-06-18 15:53:10 <asciilifeform> latex theoretically gives this. but apparently still , as 20y ago, not gives edible, linkable html
2aff2d9a17bcdf0c…17bcdf0c…2022-06-18 15:53:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: indeed not binary. but also not palatable to create by hand.
02b07b152aff2d9a…b7358eb9…2022-06-18 15:56:18 <billymg> create in graphics program, copy/paste the svg into spec source
b76fde8602b07b15…2aff2d9a…2022-06-18 15:54:00 <asciilifeform> svg may as well be a binary format, for all the readability of it
2a66c373b76fde86…b76fde86…2022-06-18 15:54:22 <asciilifeform> billymg: never used latex e.g. dag generators ? the source 'exists in the form preferred for editing'
1eea3a1e2a66c373…2a66c373…2022-06-18 15:54:30 <asciilifeform> rather than turd shat out by graphics editor
cf2e92e6b9526686…b9526686…2022-06-18 15:56:19 <asciilifeform> nobody there sits and sweats in an image editor like microshit victim
70190cc0cf2e92e6…cf2e92e6…2022-06-18 15:58:56 <asciilifeform> observe that crapola like svg is extremely unfriendly from vtronic pov
12f0cef470190cc0…70190cc0…2022-06-18 15:59:14 <asciilifeform> just about any change turns into kilometre of liquishit in the diff
8b54082712f0cef4…cdd71b4f…2022-06-18 16:01:45 <billymg> in the first link, this is what the generated svg looks like: view-source:https://dkumor.com/posts/technical/files/tikzgraphs/sampledot.svg
ccfe8b478b540827…8b540827…2022-06-18 16:02:09 <billymg> looks about the same as spit out by any "microshit graphics program"
77bf7510ccfe8b47…12f0cef4…2022-06-18 15:59:55 <asciilifeform> billymg: right, but no need to hardbake the output into vdiff, if ~generates~ it from meaningful source
b1e08a8e77bf7510…ccfe8b47…2022-06-18 16:02:22 <billymg> per asciilifeform: "might as well be binary"
0cee64ba0dd71857…0dd71857…2022-06-18 16:00:39 <asciilifeform> ( in fact the typical output of latex is a megatonne of postscript soup )
3123dfb30cee64ba…b1e08a8e…2022-06-18 16:03:11 <billymg> ok, so it's "press vpatch of pest spec, and also download this third party dependency to generate the graphs"
5da336c43123dfb3…3123dfb3…2022-06-18 16:03:59 <billymg> and if that's the idea could use e.g. matplotlib also
e7638a865da336c4…0cee64ba…2022-06-18 16:01:43 <asciilifeform> billymg: traditional down side of latex. but it aint as if there even is, afaik, a latex system that spits usable, linkable html.
cdebb45130cb0f61…e7638a86…2022-06-18 16:02:13 <asciilifeform> billymg: if req's js to ~read~ the output, asciilifeform won't use
d66ce4aca2b42441…cdebb451…2022-06-18 16:02:33 <asciilifeform> output must be a standard html + dir of whatever images
fefe3a49d66ce4ac…d66ce4ac…2022-06-18 16:03:06 <asciilifeform> but, importantly, optionally a printer-edible ps with correct pagination etc
99316195b20502ba…b20502ba…2022-06-18 16:15:19 <asciilifeform> fugheting about illustrations for a moment, what asciilifeform was looking for is an item which generates something maximally approximating the current html form but from latex src, rather than the enfuriatingly moronic markdown
e19a9e8799316195…99316195…2022-06-18 16:16:14 <asciilifeform> ( which wastes over9000 hours to change even most simple thing )
4081ce83e19a9e87…8c223bf0…2022-06-18 16:18:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-18 15:54:31 asciilifeform: latex worx a++, and doesn't suffer from the idiocy of 'markdown' where can't reorder sections without doctoring over9000 links etc
d750e5aa4081ce83…e19a9e87…2022-06-18 16:17:38 <asciilifeform> ... somehow thought it existed for 20y, turns out -- not at all
2cf74824d750e5aa…a2b42441…2022-06-18 16:21:57 <billymg> asciilifeform: could ask jonsykkel about the one he's working on
afd81fe02cf74824…4081ce83…2022-06-18 16:21:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-06 19:55:08 jonsykkel[asciilifeform|billymg]: wokring on a markdown replacment soon redy but i dont have a name for it so canot release - plz someone invent
8d4da6c601e9b0f4…01e9b0f4…2022-06-18 16:22:18 asciilifeform not expects, in his lifetime, to see anyffin resembling a replacement for latex for cranking out printer-friendly output
b59b3f4b8d4da6c6…8d4da6c6…2022-06-18 16:24:32 <asciilifeform> this is ultimately why e.g. maffs world is fulla incurable pdfism
5a8c732ab59b3f4b…afd81fe0…2022-06-18 16:26:57 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-09 phf: asciilifeform: i'm less and less sharing your dislike for pdfs. i think it's a maligned format, because of its incompetent custodian adobe. i'm just looking at the variety of pdf documents, and their corresponding crossplatform support i.e. can render noaa's naval chart which is all shapes a
0e38eab65a8c732a…b59b3f4b…2022-06-18 16:27:57 <asciilifeform> for billymg & other folx who not used latex : 'printer sanity' aint simply about 'nifty fonts' etc., but actually very simple things that htmlism pisses on, e.g. allowing author to force sections to start at top of a page, paragraphs not to break in half by page boundary, sane handling of toc, etc
8cf9dd1f0e38eab6…0e38eab6…2022-06-18 16:30:10 <asciilifeform> ... it also includes vector graphics getting rasterized to the resolution of the printer, rather than some arbitrary sad vga res
a91eaa4f8cf9dd1f…8cf9dd1f…2022-06-18 16:30:28 <asciilifeform> ( and wrapped by text correctly, and not broken up by page boundaries )
2de846dca91eaa4f…a91eaa4f…2022-06-18 16:41:39 <asciilifeform> ( see also : interesting piece re the sheer brokenness of extant proggies purporting to solve $problem )
8acb79f92de846dc…89ad7f0a…2022-06-18 17:36:10 <signpost> those printing requirements are actually present in recent revisions of css, though this'd marry you to recent browsers.
0b106867c9d354d0…c9d354d0…2022-06-18 17:38:10 <asciilifeform> betcha output wouldn't look anyffin like a civilized, white man latex print either.
5b8ef0690b106867…8acb79f9…2022-06-18 17:40:33 <signpost> oh, they probably have a page-layout: pls-no-page-numbers-plspls; and so on.
4c5e3b3e5b8ef069…5b8ef069…2022-06-18 17:40:43 <signpost> and somewhere some autist is very proud that he knows them all.
b0860a114c5e3b3e…4c5e3b3e…2022-06-18 17:41:12 <signpost> omg: srsly-no-crapping-the-url-onto-every-page;
41e96800b0860a11…b0860a11…2022-06-18 17:41:54 signpost was amused to learn that JS accreted destructuring-bind recently (sorta)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain c3a0ef944c569dc368ae997e40f23f73399e62938be617d0e6da06e64b3629ad) prior to <crawlerbot> ---
3c914cc4c3a0ef94…c3a0ef94…2022-06-07 13:29:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=694323, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 33 - last probed: 30m ago
9ff048203c914cc4…3c914cc4…2022-06-07 13:29:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=739717, v=99999, United States - peers: 28 - last probed: 32m ago
a3bbb5d99ff04820…9ff04820…2022-06-07 13:29:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=739708, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 17 - last probed: 32m ago
55865ce9a3bbb5d9…a3bbb5d9…2022-06-07 13:29:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=739717, v=99999, United States - peers: 8 - last probed: 32m ago
0904222455865ce9…55865ce9…2022-06-07 13:29:46 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=739717, v=99999, United States - peers: 6 - last probed: 32m ago
2327117f09042224…09042224…2022-06-07 13:29:46 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=739717, v=99999, United States - peers: 4 - last probed: 32m ago
07f4e9f1f09c97a0…2b222121…2022-06-08 14:45:24 asciilifeform loox fwd to vanishment of peering headaches
9df69d3b07f4e9f1…e1afe004…2022-06-08 15:01:14 <shinohai> So far, billymg only person I can't peer with for the life of me.
ad972b089df69d3b…91d48c55…2022-06-08 15:20:00 <signpost> same thing I'm seeing with deedbot still, intermittent or slow responses sometimes, snappy others.
455da566ad972b08…ad972b08…2022-06-08 15:20:41 signpost wanted to intentionally begin relying upon blatta to surface these.
420aa025e6804ec0…e6804ec0…2022-06-08 15:21:31 <signpost> just replied instantaneously in private message.
7925f761b638c36c…cc30a1ce…2022-06-19 17:53:13 <awt> Ran into about 3 GETDATA responses that caused a decoding crash since the initial smiley incident.
04ef702eee245bb8…420aa025…2022-06-08 15:38:38 <signpost> perhaps what I've got is a weird interaction between deedbot and blatta.
b65cedf704ef702e…04ef702e…2022-06-08 15:39:04 <signpost> each side of the socket waiting for the other to say something? will have to dig deeper soon.
a98efe8b34d40ba3…a3d028b7…2022-06-08 15:50:31 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 46 days 23 hours 30 minutes and 31 seconds
f9bc940ea98efe8b…34d40ba3…2022-06-08 15:51:09 <shinohai> Best uptime I've ever had on this bot, literally have not even logged into the server it runs on since I started it.
f6844ad7b7f1ea2d…b7f1ea2d…2022-06-19 18:25:09 <awt> Currently resyncing pestbot from scratch - sync does seem too slow, and I'm noticing dupes being logged and thrown out - which should never happen between just two pest stations.
18352634565a5938…565a5938…2022-06-19 18:29:21 <awt> incidentally asciilifeform my pestbot station syncs continuously w/out the bot being connected to the station.
1bb29e4db3b8e0a2…419d7c01…2022-06-19 18:34:05 <awt> Ok pestbot fully resynced, no crashes. Syncs fine without the irc client ever having been connected.
0cf037fb1bb29e4d…1bb29e4d…2022-06-19 18:50:47 <awt> Also not persuaded re: circular GETDATA requests - if this were true syncing would never end.
d93739800cf037fb…0cf037fb…2022-06-19 18:52:07 <awt> Also, messages are not presented in random order. Messages are dumped periodically IN ORDER as they are received. Currently the full sync takes longer than the message dump interval.
78f8b52ac0f2e69d…b7e3400c…2022-06-19 19:08:49 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7714; TRB-Compatible: 28; TRB: 14
d2a8e62278f8b52a…78f8b52a…2022-06-19 19:08:49 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 8; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Russia: 3; Singapore: 2; Brazil: 1; Australia: 1; Italy: 1; United Arab Emirates: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Venezuela: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
2953712ed2a8e622…d2a8e622…2022-06-19 19:08:49 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
43384b6399f0a9c6…2953712e…2022-06-19 19:09:15 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 217 - last probed: 21m ago
f5b501c643384b63…43384b63…2022-06-19 19:09:15 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=741474, v=70001, United States - peers: 78 - last probed: 23m ago
b3e94630f5b501c6…f5b501c6…2022-06-19 19:09:15 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=741474, v=88888, France - peers: 72 - last probed: 24m ago
03d6df2fb3e94630…b3e94630…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 58 - last probed: 23m ago
259cbe7503d6df2f…03d6df2f…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, Canada - peers: 57 - last probed: 23m ago
6b35117e259cbe75…259cbe75…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, Norway - peers: 47 - last probed: 18m ago
3e099d336b35117e…6b35117e…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 38 - last probed: 19m ago
7e239e6c3e099d33…3e099d33…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, Romania - peers: 31 - last probed: 23m ago
cc3f60177e239e6c…7e239e6c…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=735091, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 27 - last probed: 21m ago
aed1bf73cc3f6017…cc3f6017…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 24 - last probed: 24m ago
3476f31daed1bf73…aed1bf73…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 18 - last probed: 24m ago
a7904dbd3476f31d…3476f31d…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 17 - last probed: 23m ago
3484b4d9a7904dbd…a7904dbd…2022-06-19 19:09:16 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=740874, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 15 - last probed: 23m ago
ab6064393484b4d9…3484b4d9…2022-06-19 19:09:17 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=741474, v=99999, United States - peers: 5 - last probed: 23m ago
7b49e1fc46c9dc37…4884c9ce…2022-06-19 19:40:23 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 56 minutes and 54 seconds
7df6c41636f3104b…7b49e1fc…2022-06-19 19:41:05 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 57 minutes and 36 seconds
9b6cc2cbe117ec15…ab606439…2022-06-19 19:43:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 217 - last probed: 20m ago
f0a749f89b6cc2cb…9b6cc2cb…2022-06-19 19:43:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=741475, v=70001, United States - peers: 78 - last probed: 22m ago
72796551f0a749f8…f0a749f8…2022-06-19 19:43:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=741475, v=88888, France - peers: 72 - last probed: 22m ago
07791bfb72796551…72796551…2022-06-19 19:43:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 58 - last probed: 22m ago
93216cf107791bfb…07791bfb…2022-06-19 19:43:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, Canada - peers: 57 - last probed: 22m ago
9b68b55a93216cf1…93216cf1…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, Norway - peers: 47 - last probed: 17m ago
5793c3fb9b68b55a…9b68b55a…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 36 - last probed: 17m ago
34c8acef5793c3fb…5793c3fb…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, Romania - peers: 31 - last probed: 22m ago
54f0a1705793c3fb…e117ec15…2022-06-19 19:56:09 <awt> Noticed an interesting behavior. Recently started seeing messages as replays that shouldn't be - then noticed the machine the station is on's clock was off by several minutes. Seems that the station was dropping a packet that was out of the time range.
83101d9f34c8acef…34c8acef…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=735091, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 27 - last probed: 20m ago
bb5bc14d54f0a170…54f0a170…2022-06-19 19:56:28 <awt> When another packet was received from another station with a closer clock time, triggered a GETDATA.
fd24ce1683101d9f…83101d9f…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 21 - last probed: 22m ago
54e44950fd24ce16…fd24ce16…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 20 - last probed: 22m ago
ce802f09bdc7c18a…7df6c416…2022-06-19 20:04:53 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 21 minutes and 24 seconds
4af35da854e44950…54e44950…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 17 - last probed: 22m ago
5d9f107fce802f09…4297bd0f…2022-06-19 21:10:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007650 << indeed, looking (with naked eye) asciilifeform did not find a circle
bfd94cb54af35da8…4af35da8…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=740874, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 15 - last probed: 22m ago
5e5a6a2b5d9f107f…0facb98a…2022-06-19 21:12:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 18:43:39 awt[signpost|asciilifeform|billymg]: Also not persuaded re: circular GETDATA requests - if this were true syncing would never end.
447c052fbfd94cb5…bfd94cb5…2022-06-19 19:43:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=741475, v=99999, United States - peers: 5 - last probed: 22m ago
26f51a585e5a6a2b…5d9f107f…2022-06-19 21:10:36 <asciilifeform> (so possibly bug in bitbot ? but wai nao?)
0ede138d26f51a58…26f51a58…2022-06-19 21:11:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007651 << makes sense. tho still wondering why it getdata'd last night's 'hello world' from asciilifeform
27a1f94e0ede138d…5e5a6a2b…2022-06-19 21:14:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 18:45:00 awt[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: Also, messages are not presented in random order. Messages are dumped periodically IN ORDER as they are received. Currently the full sync takes longer than the message dump interval.
f6a20a6a655268f8…655268f8…2022-06-19 21:12:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007693 << possibly reason for above, hm
dfd3d22ef6a20a6a…27a1f94e…2022-06-19 21:15:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 19:58:36 awt[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: Noticed an interesting behavior. Recently started seeing messages as replays that shouldn't be - then noticed the machine the station is on's clock was off by several minutes. Seems that the station was dropping a packet that was out of the time range.
d13d56b3dfd3d22e…99f0a9c6…2022-06-19 22:15:59 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-19#1007699 << i was not following closely, what was the indication of a potential bug in bitbot?
3d16c4efd13d56b3…dfd3d22e…2022-06-19 22:16:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 21:13:02 asciilifeform: (so possibly bug in bitbot ? but wai nao?)
255faaa63d16c4ef…f6a20a6a…2022-06-19 23:09:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: the oddball repeated output from earlier
c0dc5123255faaa6…3d16c4ef…2022-06-19 23:11:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 16:21:57 busybot[signpost|asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $19625.31
b86890a857a2e8ba…57a2e8ba…2022-06-20 16:30:30 <asciilifeform> still seeing the [asciilifeform|asciilifeform...] lolbug
1fb2083434b18ee7…b86890a8…2022-06-20 16:31:01 <asciilifeform> ( almost certainly hearsay dupes are getting relayed from asciilifeform's station to dulapbot's )
fda35ada1fb20834…dda3e170…2022-06-20 16:33:34 <billymg> asciilifeform: regarding syncing of line indices between logotrons, what if we added a field containing the hash of speaker (minus hearsay), chan, timestamp, payload to the db?
9bea5bf9fda35ada…1fb20834…2022-06-20 16:31:35 <asciilifeform> oh and the 'perpetually 1 msg behind' thing again
8698f2ccef4adf69…08c3fb0a…2022-06-20 16:32:29 <awt> Pestbot up to date. Not sure what's going on there.
4412dfc23afaf15d…fda35ada…2022-06-20 16:35:58 <billymg> backfilling that field would also fix the problem of ossasepia and lobbes logs getting out of sync with nsa logs
f6daf3654412dfc2…c0dc5123…2022-06-20 16:35:59 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-27 billymg: i wanted to include ossasepia links too, but out of sync
927373b0e1b25918…e1b25918…2022-06-20 16:37:21 <asciilifeform> ( the most obv. q is, wai does it getdata almost erry time ? )
ff6c2f14927373b0…51c40fd4…2022-06-20 16:38:53 <awt> asciilifeform: actually looking at the pestbot logs I'm seeing the exact same thing. Dunno how it responds instantly.
44baf7f4ff6c2f14…ff6c2f14…2022-06-20 16:39:30 <awt> Not seeing it on my main station: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/logs/current
7e15593944baf7f4…44baf7f4…2022-06-20 16:45:29 <awt> This is the missing message from the first GETDATA request: BROADCAST (asciilifeform) 2022-04-27 billymg: i wanted to include ossasepia links too, but out of sync 2 f6daf3650616b7a533c2c8e04fbcf926c84b6626ec3aab8585479dc7098c0ea9
726db6de7e155939…7e155939…2022-06-20 16:46:25 <awt> ok ok hmm maybe has something to do with bounces?
eab4c1414401500e…4401500e…2022-06-20 16:46:54 <awt> the loggers and bots are most likely to be farthest apart
276a65b7eab4c141…eab4c141…2022-06-20 16:47:49 <awt> so log quotes aren't making it all the way to the other logger, and possibly poorly connected bots, such as pestbot.
55847375276a65b7…927373b0…2022-06-20 16:50:15 asciilifeform found that max_bounces was set to 3 on asciilifeform's station; lessee if changing to 5 does anyffin
72d866a155847375…55847375…2022-06-20 16:50:36 <asciilifeform> ( per current spec, rec'd value is 5 )
139528ae2bbfc5e8…72d866a1…2022-06-20 16:51:08 <asciilifeform> seems to have cured (or at least temporarily?) the 1-behind thing
af0fc561cfb49ff4…3e0c9582…2022-06-20 16:51:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-20#1007750
12bc8fb2af0fc561…fc17578f…2022-06-20 16:51:41 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 12:51:34 asciilifeform: lessee if cured bot echo
40581bcbdc122699…19654e6b…2022-06-20 16:52:08 <asciilifeform> and no longer shits out getdata after erry msg
50191fbecce81b5c…f3334f75…2022-06-20 16:53:35 <asciilifeform> still not obv to asciilifeform why a bounce cut of 3 would cause erry msg by asciilifeform himself to get 1-behind
1cc600e850191fbe…50191fbe…2022-06-20 16:53:48 <asciilifeform> bounce dist from asciilifeform's station to dulapbot's is 1
801e4ed01cc600e8…cce81b5c…2022-06-20 16:54:20 <awt> possibly stuck in buffer while waiting for getdata caused by missing log quote.
f2cd4070dbd5857b…dbd5857b…2022-06-20 16:54:47 <asciilifeform> the getdata goes to asciilifeform's station tho, neh (where else)
2e02a2e1e90181ea…801e4ed0…2022-06-20 16:55:25 <awt> yes - but later messages are stuck in the queue nonetheless until their timestamp passes the expiration
11f140552e02a2e1…e90181ea…2022-06-20 16:55:29 <asciilifeform> awt: is it possible that current blatta somehow preserves bounce counts when answering a getdata ?
714f5f4d11f14055…11f14055…2022-06-20 16:55:54 <asciilifeform> ( rather than issuing the correct one, which is always 1 , when answering a getdata )
ab6605ed8b4deb5f…2e02a2e1…2022-06-20 16:56:34 <awt> asciilifeform: bounce count is logged so we can check
df2f077ced8e59b1…8b4deb5f…2022-06-20 16:58:29 <asciilifeform> in the paste, they look to be correct ( if asciilifeform is reading'em right )
da35e413df2f077c…df2f077c…2022-06-20 16:59:25 <asciilifeform> hmm awt is there any mark to distinguish getdata responses in the log from other msgs ?
40f009c614e4797d…14e4797d…2022-06-20 17:02:36 <asciilifeform> given what asciilifeform can see in the debug log, remains a puzzler wai a bounce cut of 3 on asciilifeform's station would cause the behaviour seen earlier in dulapbot's
cb0af2c940f009c6…40f009c6…2022-06-20 17:02:50 <asciilifeform> ( where setting to 5 -- appears to cure )
99854263cb0af2c9…cb0af2c9…2022-06-20 17:03:07 <asciilifeform> esp. given that dulapbot's is still set to 3
63d2cded99854263…7124f43a…2022-06-20 17:03:51 <awt> Possibly blatta only checks the bounce count before rebroadcasting and not on receiving.
2a7107f8619a4485…619a4485…2022-06-20 17:05:37 <asciilifeform> 'station must reject messages which have experienced more than a preconfigured number of bounces' 3.3.1.2
88dd96ed2a7107f8…2a7107f8…2022-06-20 17:06:00 asciilifeform had fughoteen that he'd in fact remembered to properly specify this, lol
5eb1476a88dd96ed…63d2cded…2022-06-20 17:06:40 <awt> Yeah looks like there's not bounce check on reception in blatta.
d74fc3945eb1476a…88dd96ed…2022-06-20 17:07:48 <asciilifeform> bounce path from pestbot to dulapbot is still 3 tho, no ? (pestbot -> billymg -> asciilifeform -> dulapbot)
391d927bd74fc394…d74fc394…2022-06-20 17:08:29 <asciilifeform> so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss
925f8d34391d927b…5eb1476a…2022-06-20 17:09:22 <awt> Let's test again: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007789
427f9d89925f8d34…f6daf365…2022-06-20 17:11:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 17:10:56 asciilifeform: so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss
6229eeaf427f9d89…391d927b…2022-06-20 17:09:56 <asciilifeform> should set on asciilifeform's station to 3 again ?
5f5222980e7aa5cb…22033307…2022-06-20 17:10:17 <asciilifeform> indeed no getdata's issued on its end since set to 5
ab79fd5e5f522298…5f522298…2022-06-20 17:10:29 <asciilifeform> (since asciilifeform's station, that is, set to bounce cut 5)
cc425f6cab79fd5e…ab79fd5e…2022-06-20 17:10:54 <asciilifeform> i'ma set it to 3 again, lessee if same as prior
cf1c4b924132a69d…4132a69d…2022-06-20 17:11:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007789
8e0c8fc4cf1c4b92…427f9d89…2022-06-20 17:13:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 17:10:56 asciilifeform: so still can't figure out why a cut of 3 would've caused a loss
7f357155ac95c7ae…ac95c7ae…2022-06-20 17:12:37 <asciilifeform> ( the failure isn't reproducible by setting asciilifeform's station back to bounce cut 3 )
c307be787f357155…0e7aa5cb…2022-06-20 17:12:39 <awt> Maybe if you can find that original log quote that started it off, it might have come via a longer route
481f73e5e5d165a4…12bc8fb2…2022-06-20 17:13:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 12:11:51 busybot[asciilifeform]: Current BTC price in USD: $20599.04
24b4117be09a1c49…c307be78…2022-06-20 17:14:19 <awt> I have the bounce count logged as 2 for the first quote this morning.
42310ecff1df4de5…cb155c58…2022-06-26 23:56:00 <asciilifeform> dulapbot log fulla replayliquishit again ftr.
dbda7ffa42310ecf…f1df4de5…2022-06-27 14:05:18 <whaack> does anyone else see join/part spam from billymg?
f3abe802bf11bcd6…3d2650e0…2022-06-27 14:06:11 <shinohai> Nah I finally turned on weechat smart filtering.
a390720ef3abe802…659f29f7…2022-06-27 14:07:29 <PeterL> I turned my knob for part way up, so I don't really see join/part messages for anybody
dc6e3dd4a390720e…dbda7ffa…2022-06-27 14:07:32 <whaack> also, in planned obsolescence stories, i took a 2012 macbook pro to an apple reseller here to replace a dead battery, after paying $100 for a diagnostic i learned that Apple does not replace batteries for "vintage" computers
d924034fdc6e3dd4…a390720e…2022-06-27 14:08:11 <PeterL> that's 10 years old, only a terrorist would use such an ancient machine!
75edbfb35e0d828d…e4bbdb1f…2022-06-20 17:22:05 <awt> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=3-d1 << there are way to many GETDATA responses here
ed86785575edbfb3…5e0d828d…2022-06-20 17:23:11 <asciilifeform> loox similar to dulapbot's, but the latter's has no 'out of order' marks
38494644356e705f…e655cbd8…2022-06-27 14:08:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-24 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-23#1108781 << fwiw the 'teardown' folx apparently found that nope, still hotglued as in the old one and comes out after syringing with 99% etoh.
8bdd6a16ed867855…75edbfb3…2022-06-20 17:23:36 <awt> might need to wait two cycles for the buffer to completely clear and write everything to the long buffer.
3e7a552aaee04050…a9f0d885…2022-06-27 14:13:24 <whaack> it looks like the replay is done for me, but i randomly get some messages from the past.
3ade7b883e7a552a…aee04050…2022-06-27 14:13:46 asciilifeform thought 'replay done' wk ago, but yest. kilometre of replay
3697de9b84fc5906…8bdd6a16…2022-06-20 17:27:56 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-20#1007838 shot
6fbc02bf3ade7b88…c1586526…2022-06-27 14:20:13 <billymg> whaack: i see join/part spam from various users from time to time
6c86816a3697de9b…8e0c8fc4…2022-06-20 17:30:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 17:29:41 asciilifeform: hm seems to have worked
f4a27f986fbc02bf…6fbc02bf…2022-06-27 14:31:32 <billymg> btw whaack, i saw in the logs you had a bad experience with pcgamingcr.com, was wondering if you ever went back and tried them again
b2e43cabb6526f58…3d4b48d1…2022-06-20 17:31:37 <awt> pestbot had to do a GETDATA when it got 'chaser'
75aeb33335931ff0…35931ff0…2022-06-27 15:05:40 <billymg> i might try ordering a cheap part from them as a test, will post here if i have better luck
d8831ffc75aeb333…ee569afa…2022-06-27 15:03:55 <whaack> billymg: for sure, go for it, you just need to deal with it in the standard way here
83113b0eb58f25d3…b2e43cab…2022-06-20 17:34:36 <awt> Which is actually really weird because I do see the log quote prior to the initial receipt of 'chaser' in the pestbot station log.
ea31b933d8831ffc…d8831ffc…2022-06-27 15:07:31 <whaack> when i ordered my computer parts from them i had less experience living here, i've come to learn that their method of 'oh i thought this would help' 'we actually found a better part for you then you ordered so we just swapped it' etc. is SOP here, so anything i complained about in the logs you will probably see from most c
7e66398e83113b0e…b58f25d3…2022-06-20 17:35:32 <asciilifeform> awt: seems as if could be a bug triggered by reordered packet arrival
8cf03f9eea31b933…ea31b933…2022-06-27 15:08:01 <whaack> and fwiw my comp is still running strong 2 years later (should probably reapply thermal paste soon/now)
d56a33a28cf03f9e…75aeb333…2022-06-27 15:12:40 <billymg> whaack: yeah, i also remember some of the issue was with you trying to find some "vintage" (AM3+) parts. they probably though "why doesn't he want ryzen?" "nfi, just give him something from the used bin then"
82a6a73f22778b55…7e66398e…2022-06-20 17:45:19 <asciilifeform> awt: easily, but not yet obv. how, from the debug barf ( all the visible bounce paths were <= 3 long )
072b13c554e7ed4c…54e7ed4c…2022-06-27 15:20:22 <billymg> i recently dealt with a customs seizure at the airport (carryon full of 2k+ of parts), not fun at all
24e8e4ab56163cce…56163cce…2022-06-20 17:48:48 <awt> Issue seems to arise for stations who speak immediately after a log quote
16926478072b13c5…072b13c5…2022-06-27 15:21:43 <billymg> and a complete scam, not only required to pay tax but also pay a broker and the warehouse -- both separate, private entities
df28336224e8e4ab…82a6a73f…2022-06-20 17:49:37 <asciilifeform> hmm, awt , what if effect from netchain 'fork' (entirely permitted situation, but is it handled correctly in blatta?)
d74c3ac016926478…16926478…2022-06-27 15:22:37 <billymg> "pay tax to gov directly" not even an option
ad7127cfdf283362…df283362…2022-06-20 17:50:11 <asciilifeform> i.e. 2 msgs with shared netchain parent
ab65d0d0d74c3ac0…8cf03f9e…2022-06-27 15:44:42 <whaack> billymg: did you at least get your shit back?
41498665ab65d0d0…ab65d0d0…2022-06-27 15:47:23 <whaack> dunno if i told you this story, but i went on a mission to get some rare wood from Guatemala (rosa de madera, it's bark that is infected with a fungus that slowly contorts itself over 50 years) we had about 5-6 bags of it between 4 of us, they took it all and burnt it because we didn't have the right papers saying it was t
c4003feee712df52…ad7127cf…2022-06-20 17:54:04 <asciilifeform> seems possible: speaker 'a' speaks, and he saw msg 'm', and at ~same time 'b' speaks, but he not seen it yet. 'b' ends up issuing a getdata and embargoing m.
3f5b961941498665…41498665…2022-06-27 15:59:43 <whaack> billymg: also did this happen in Liberia or SJ? I am going to take a guess that it happened in SJ, the customs agents seem to be a little more uptight there
d6564fd13f5b9619…d74c3ac0…2022-06-27 16:03:33 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-27#1008049 << some of your messages are getting cut off (in my console and in logs)
f2d35d58d6564fd1…ffd51ce4…2022-06-27 16:03:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-27 15:49:59 whaack[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: dunno if i told you this story, but i went on a mission to get some rare wood from Guatemala (rosa de madera, it's bark that is infected with a fungus that slowly contorts itself over 50 years) we had about 5-6 bags of it between 4 of us, they took it al
24700411016a2399…b6d28749…2022-06-20 18:00:01 asciilifeform had a thought recently, that just about all of the gnarly embargo buffer logic in pest protocol is only req'd because irc frontend is a 'teletype', i.e. immutable
9341f973f2d35d58…d6564fd1…2022-06-27 16:04:43 <billymg> whaack: this happened in liberia actually. and yes, usually they're more lax, which is why i wasn't more prepared
09835e5f24700411…24700411…2022-06-20 18:00:24 <asciilifeform> if were mutable (a la heathen chats) would not need to embargo, in principle
9dead0809341f973…9341f973…2022-06-27 16:05:27 <billymg> you're supposed to have a printed invoice showing that the items add up to less than $500
3149e9869dead080…9dead080…2022-06-27 16:06:10 <billymg> never been bothered before so got lazy, didn't bother having a fortified invoice ready
b30ae7e43149e986…3149e986…2022-06-27 16:12:14 <billymg> whaack: bummer what happened to your contraband
75433ad3763c477b…59548dd5…2022-06-20 18:07:15 <asciilifeform> awt: well, for starters, all replays; the receipt of any out-of-netchain-order msg; the eviction of a hearsay by an immediate
21a03001b30ae7e4…b30ae7e4…2022-06-27 16:14:19 <billymg> also, for whaack and awt: if you find yourself in the same situation, where they're hassling you about items you brought, best option is convince them they add up to less than $500, second best option is to claim you don't remember how much any of it costs
3a959e0475433ad3…75433ad3…2022-06-20 18:08:01 <asciilifeform> ... and messages with absent chain predecessor (net or self) could, in 'mutational' pestron, be displayed immed, rather than buffered
43232a2721a03001…3f5b9619…2022-06-27 16:12:19 <whaack> billymg: $500??? isn't it supposed to be $10k?
fabc1d3b3a959e04…3a959e04…2022-06-20 18:08:32 <asciilifeform> naturally this would require a custom gui thing, in place of irc teletype, tho.
29a31f3e43232a27…21a03001…2022-06-27 16:15:17 <billymg> whaack: this is for "products/things" not cash
cbbfab2c29a31f3e…43232a27…2022-06-27 16:12:45 <whaack> if you wear a nice suit to you have to strip?
d2980d9fed26f1e8…fabc1d3b…2022-06-20 18:08:56 <asciilifeform> ( and a quite different interface for bots, somehow )
10d8716c3b3da208…3b3da208…2022-06-27 16:13:20 <whaack> $500 of weird looking hacker things only, sir
3756fe2a2052e979…2052e979…2022-06-20 18:09:23 <asciilifeform> triggered, evidently, but asciilifeform speaking 'similt' with awt
911951d4fd03fc9e…fd03fc9e…2022-06-27 16:16:52 <billymg> with clothes and books easier to say "these are mine -- not new"
58ba672ec5afb4d8…c5afb4d8…2022-06-20 18:09:53 <asciilifeform> loox like we have a reasonable repro for the bug, lol
fbe21fdf650b0370…650b0370…2022-06-27 16:18:52 <billymg> but anyway, if the items do get seized (worst case), then the customs broker you find will assess the value of the items in your favor, but if you give them any kind of actual dollar amount > $500 at the airport, that amount is the floor
a1579613fbe21fdf…10d8716c…2022-06-27 16:19:54 <whaack> gotcha, good to know,was thinking about bringing a couple of laptops here
e17a04a9a1579613…fbe21fdf…2022-06-27 16:22:31 <billymg> the assessment / clearing happens, btw, between the broker and the government clerk. in my case the warehouse (again, separate entity), wasn't informed until the items were already cleared by the gov clerk
1b20abbac8a04f4b…c8a04f4b…2022-06-20 18:11:17 <asciilifeform> also loox as if asciilifeform's station aint answering dulapbot's getdata's most of the time
2e0bbd78e17a04a9…e17a04a9…2022-06-27 16:23:40 <billymg> so at no point did the gov clerk call up or visit the warehouse to see if the items listed in the broker's assessment matched up with what was seized
7e5bd2772e0bbd78…2e0bbd78…2022-06-27 16:24:05 <billymg> whaack: two laptops, with no signs of retail anything, probably fine
ec129ff7d836b4af…d836b4af…2022-06-20 18:15:17 <awt> You can decrease the interval on the bot station to dump 'em out faster for a temporary fix
736dfdf177defb20…3ade7b88…2022-06-27 16:30:15 asciilifeform traditionally would comment, but suspects that at this pt billymg & whaack have moar experience with bananistan smuggling lol
46d46d78736dfdf1…736dfdf1…2022-06-27 16:31:16 asciilifeform suspects that his old observations still apply tho (e.g. 'take pains to make the goodies not look retail-saleable' etc)
f5eb770c19d91316…19d91316…2022-06-20 18:16:30 <asciilifeform> ( high on asciilifeform's wishlist is some means for turning knobs on a bot station w/out disconnecting the bot; but 'can't have errything at 1ce' )
1d1d1f6c46d46d78…46d46d78…2022-06-27 16:32:32 <asciilifeform> ... i.e. avoid original vendor packagings of any kind, shrinkwraps, etc.
c8ee03cef5eb770c…f5eb770c…2022-06-20 18:17:38 asciilifeform current thought : possibly when 'master' mode implemented, bot can take pest cmds from master via direct msg
b02756641d1d1f6c…77defb20…2022-06-27 16:35:49 <billymg> asciilifeform: that was definitely what i think tripped the alarm this time
281f38fbc8ee03ce…ec129ff7…2022-06-20 18:25:18 <awt> That would be nice. Wouldn't need another interface, like the thought I just had which is the ability to periodically reload the config from a config file that could be edited.
9ce43036281f38fb…c8ee03ce…2022-06-20 18:25:51 <asciilifeform> that'd be useful, so long as config includes literally all knobbable state
ec8c676c9ce43036…9ce43036…2022-06-20 18:26:13 <asciilifeform> ( which would probably be a bitch to keep in sync with console-changed knob settings )
2b232892ec8c676c…ec8c676c…2022-06-20 18:26:45 <asciilifeform> imho 'take cmds from master' would be the Right Thing for 'headless' stations
ced03b2161ada398…447c052f…2022-06-28 14:44:36 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7623; TRB-Compatible: 31; TRB: 13
19f36a21ced03b21…ced03b21…2022-06-28 14:44:36 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 7; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Singapore: 3; Russia: 3; France: 2; Spain: 2; Canada: 1; Ukraine: 1; Italy: 1; Algeria: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
ef4959b4a11f941a…2b232892…2022-06-20 18:31:51 <asciilifeform> awt: theoretically could still operate a pestron via irc frontend, but perhaps the Right Thing would be for the buffer logic to live in a separate glue (given as irc offers no way to represent 'changing the past')
b4216e8619f36a21…19f36a21…2022-06-28 14:44:36 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 7; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
622217e9ef4959b4…ef4959b4…2022-06-20 18:32:17 <asciilifeform> ... whereas pestron per se could be substantially less 'stateful' than currently
114361e8622217e9…622217e9…2022-06-20 18:33:50 <asciilifeform> (conceivably, the hearsay buffer could stay, given as hearsay eviction typically takes place within ~1s, packets are ~never delayed by moar than fraction of a second)
829c82558903c2ec…b4216e86…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, United States - peers: 130 - last probed: 38m ago
d0df0e9b114361e8…114361e8…2022-06-20 18:35:25 <asciilifeform> the [file:///home/stas/pest/FA/b/pest_spec/pest.html#412-order-buffer]['order buffer'] otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron.
36f65a68829c8255…829c8255…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=742715, v=99999, United States - peers: 90 - last probed: 35m ago
ad5c681f36f65a68…36f65a68…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=742714, v=88888, France - peers: 68 - last probed: 40m ago
9abedbdffbcb6e8e…fbcb6e8e…2022-06-20 18:35:41 <asciilifeform> ... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron.
2632a35fad5c681f…ad5c681f…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, Romania - peers: 64 - last probed: 39m ago
b04cb19a2632a35f…2632a35f…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=742715, v=99999, Norway - peers: 62 - last probed: 34m ago
f65a148109d4a66d…09d4a66d…2022-06-20 18:36:35 <awt> Could create a relatively simple curses app for display
b3366605b04cb19a…b04cb19a…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=742357, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 59 - last probed: 39m ago
cb6efecff65a1481…9abedbdf…2022-06-20 18:37:09 <asciilifeform> ( atm order buffer dun add to the 'l2+ spam resistance' of a station at all, cuz contents get flushed to console anyway even if no answer to getdata is received... )
b4f4d04cb3366605…b3366605…2022-06-28 14:44:48 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=742714, v=70001, United States - peers: 56 - last probed: 39m ago
1ab40a0ccb6efecf…cb6efecf…2022-06-20 18:37:51 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform in particular historically not relishes console irc clients (tho using one atm for pestnet) given as they break cut&paste horridly
d3afbca2b4f4d04c…b4f4d04c…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, Canada - peers: 45 - last probed: 39m ago
b3e30142d3afbca2…d3afbca2…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, United States - peers: 39 - last probed: 40m ago
0ab8f7d03b7cf21d…3b7cf21d…2022-06-20 18:39:26 asciilifeform also on most machines hasn't a shell which supports utfism
43f407f3b3e30142…b3e30142…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, United States - peers: 26 - last probed: 39m ago
1dc2cfd20ab8f7d0…41e96800…2022-06-20 18:39:43 <signpost> would be nice if one's pest station provided a sane interface to which w/e UI can be affixed.
ee65c99743f407f3…43f407f3…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Could not connect!), h=742599, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 15 - last probed: 37m ago
63dfd12a1dc2cfd2…1dc2cfd2…2022-06-20 18:40:08 <signpost> IRC client as UI comes with all sorts of baggage, but the client and server distinctions are still useful.
6adafdc0ee65c997…ee65c997…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, United States - peers: 14 - last probed: 40m ago
8ad30c3963dfd12a…0ab8f7d0…2022-06-20 18:40:09 <asciilifeform> signpost: indeed. but in 'mutable' scheme contemplated above, would have to be sumthing other than irc
1340021d6adafdc0…6adafdc0…2022-06-28 14:44:49 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=742714, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 39m ago
1c52cac28ad30c39…8ad30c39…2022-06-20 18:40:20 <asciilifeform> afaik there aint any off-shelf substitute
7605fe6a1340021d…b38af756…2022-06-28 15:47:10 <awt> While debugging I noticed that one thing that might be slowing down the initial sync is that almost every GETDATA response necessarily triggers a db query.
a5218db61c52cac2…1c52cac2…2022-06-20 18:40:44 <asciilifeform> ( nor do any, afaik, off-shelf chat clients , support concept of a mutable log )
ceaf71f97605fe6a…7605fe6a…2022-06-28 15:48:42 <awt> Most of the slowness is likely due to blatta being single threaded, however. For ex., I can see message handling visibly pause while output is being dumped to the IRC client.
46a9dd10a5218db6…63dfd12a…2022-06-20 18:41:00 <signpost> nah, and this is the proper time to reevaluate, when temporary measure (IRC UI) threatens to backflow into the design.
ad49ec2fceaf71f9…45ca6673…2022-06-28 15:58:56 <signpost> yeah, I bumped into python's threading limitations with ocpy too (that onlinecodes encoder)
431a9e4146a9dd10…a5218db6…2022-06-20 18:42:07 <asciilifeform> ugh moar getdataism for ancient msgs despite having supposedly synced 2d ago on dulapbot
38e420adad49ec2f…ad49ec2f…2022-06-28 16:01:38 <signpost> you might be able to make a clean separation of the pest protocol handling and IRC handling using multiprocessing.
efcfb612431a9e41…46a9dd10…2022-06-20 18:42:24 signpost just emphasizes that blatta growing a ncurses UI directly would be inferior to blatta providing a local API interface with which to pestulate.
46eec868431a9e41…481f73e5…2022-06-20 18:43:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 14:39:49 signpost[asciilifeform]: oh, they probably have a page-layout: pls-no-page-numbers-plspls; and so on.
49ae4a2538e420ad…38e420ad…2022-06-28 16:02:00 <signpost> huck messages back and forth between them over Queues or something.
11ab3c1cefcfb612…efcfb612…2022-06-20 18:42:48 <signpost> allows both the ncurses UI and bots to interact with the same station.
2bc9231346eec868…9fd1a1ec…2022-06-20 18:44:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-20#1007899 << this is horrendous and, observe, awt , our logs are again outta sync, despite asciilifeform having given the dulapbot station ample time to sync
a307446749ae4a25…ceaf71f9…2022-06-28 16:05:55 <awt> Another win might be to separate all db writing/reading ops into another process
9fd1a1ec11ab3c1c…431a9e41…2022-06-20 18:43:19 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho entirely reasonable to separate 'skin' and pestron. simply must remind that there aint atm anyfffin in the way of a suitable 'skin', nor would be particularly simple to bake outta existing chatrons afaik
2b13ebe42bc92313…2bc92313…2022-06-20 18:44:11 <asciilifeform> (and by all indications this morning was 100% synced)
8295305a2bc92313…46eec868…2022-06-20 18:45:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 14:39:49 signpost[asciilifeform]: oh, they probably have a page-layout: pls-no-page-numbers-plspls; and so on.
80f0880da3074467…1d1d1f6c…2022-06-28 16:07:20 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho ideally ircism in entirely separate proggy eventually
a7fff52e2b13ebe4…f65a1481…2022-06-20 18:44:19 <awt> asciilifeform: perhaps signpost's message had an old selfchain/netchain.
394dff408295305a…da9a08d7…2022-06-20 18:45:52 <asciilifeform> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YgDo << what these oddities look like on dulapbot end
2a51530e80f0880d…38494644…2022-06-28 16:07:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-28 asciilifeform: the irc frontend is very much, imho, a straightjacket
430a1d865597cfa0…8807c87d…2025-10-22 07:22:40 <crtdaydreams> huh, why am I echo'd through asciilifeform but not jonsek
da9a08d7a7fff52e…2b13ebe4…2022-06-20 18:44:56 <asciilifeform> possibly, tho doesn't explain why triggered massive cascade of getdata's from dulapbot (which supposedly 'had errything')
60f29a8d394dff40…5597cfa0…2022-06-20 18:45:52 <signpost> dulapbot is just trying to trigger me with rubbing CSS in my face.
b8baf0922a51530e…49ae4a25…2022-06-28 16:10:04 <signpost> multiprocessing's pretty much that, fires up separate processes and gives ya a python-shaped hole to yap between them.
1ffd1640430a1d86…4d2084e5…2025-10-26 16:54:25 <awt_akris> Attemmpted to run a supposedly static trb built in 2017 on a new linux machine and ... I guess it wasn't all that static. Crashes trying to call ...create_c_locale.
3d58371ada9a08d7…a7fff52e…2022-06-20 18:45:18 <awt> in anycase somehow not everything is getting synced to the bot station initially.
b0a9266d60f29a8d…60f29a8d…2022-06-20 18:46:03 <signpost> it wont work; I can't even feel it anymore.
55e54a38b8baf092…b8baf092…2022-06-28 16:10:10 <signpost> but yeah, w/e makes the irc part easiest to cleave off.
ca12d2c61ffd1640…1ffd1640…2025-10-26 17:17:43 <awt_akris> hrm actually I vaguely recall that error...
8b8a6b9755e54a38…a3074467…2022-06-28 16:37:18 <awt> Ok so best post mortem I can come up with right now for the dupe GETDATA requests is: occasionally stations with very old netchain send a message. When doing initial sync, these are were encountered faster than the order buffer was getting dumped.
39e622dfca12d2c6…ca12d2c6…2025-10-26 17:32:09 <awt_akris> yep: http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-12-21#1349985
d86376c65195e9cc…3d58371a…2022-06-20 18:46:25 <awt> Same GETDATA barrage happening on the pestbot station.
9c447d498b8a6b97…8b8a6b97…2022-06-28 16:38:19 <awt> PROD will fix this. Also, increasing the length of time outgoing GETDATA requests are retained in memory helps.
7a08015339e622df…39e622df…2025-10-26 18:59:38 <awt_akris> billymg if you see this - maybe restart your blatta - messages aren't making it to the log
0396049dd86376c6…5195e9cc…2022-06-20 18:46:29 <asciilifeform> ^ from above, can clearly see that asciilifeform's station is relaying obvious dupes to dulapbot's
f05a6fc59c447d49…9c447d49…2022-06-28 16:40:21 <awt> Also planning to add a knob to prevent dumping messages older than x into the IRC client.
560d65c27a080153…c58a6ef4…2025-10-26 19:19:07 <asciilifeform> awt: what does ldd on the bin return ?
d85a17220396049d…0396049d…2022-06-20 18:47:26 asciilifeform resigns to fact of having to zap the #p log on dulap again at some pt, after bug fixed. cuz atm it's again fulla oldrubbish
376d226af05a6fc5…f05a6fc5…2022-06-28 16:49:09 <awt> As already discussed, in the future, loggers should read directly from the station log. I may write a console tool to dump the logs in order in a readable format to verify syncs are completing successfully.
61562c91d85a1722…d86376c6…2022-06-20 18:47:30 <awt> Seems like netchain handling is bad, since on a new station, some or all messages from a handle don't start syncing until they speak.
5531523e376d226a…55e54a38…2022-06-28 17:33:00 <signpost> imho I wouldn't even bother avoiding dumping old messages to the IRC console at this point.
7dff82de1fdcb9c2…7a080153…2025-10-26 20:55:41 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: was old, solved problem - works fine.
87ffa1cc5531523e…5531523e…2022-06-28 17:33:32 <signpost> that'd be another example of letting accidental complexity creep in from the temporary measure of using IRC for UI.
b1ae2828d0346dc2…d0346dc2…2022-06-20 18:49:23 <asciilifeform> imho a logotron where gibblets month+ old can randomly appear in the midst of conversation aint of much use (not to mention will insta-desync from e.g. billymg's)
3da70a9587ffa1cc…87ffa1cc…2022-06-28 17:34:17 <signpost> later "oops, special case that avoided sending this message to IRC also avoided sending it to db"
5136a677f4dc178d…f4dc178d…2025-10-27 03:37:08 asciilifeform recalls buncha folx had subtly-botched staticism, thought it may be example of subj
b23a731cb1ae2828…b1ae2828…2022-06-20 18:49:55 <asciilifeform> the whole 'teletype' paradigm is, as signpost points out, leaking into pestronics to much annoyance
f218a3d93da70a95…3da70a95…2022-06-28 17:34:41 <signpost> giving that as an example of the kinds of bugs this backflow of temporary measures into core design can cause.
5f8cdce0b23a731c…b23a731c…2022-06-20 18:51:20 <asciilifeform> possibly billymg's logger worx correctly because >1 peer. or because had ~100% uptime for ~whole duration of pestnet to date. nfi which. but new stations oughta work even if with 1-peer link , lol
9196fcd0f218a3d9…f218a3d9…2022-06-28 17:34:59 <signpost> I don't think anybody's terribly inconvenienced atm, and I think the line oughta be held on hacks.
5debe8425f8cdce0…61562c91…2022-06-20 18:52:10 <awt> yeah I'm going to have to run some specific tests to figure out what's going on. No idea rn.
f22832a29196fcd0…9196fcd0…2022-06-28 17:35:44 <signpost> log-reader oughta read the db, yes, not the IRC adapter. db is the source of truth on message chain state, not the UI.
f705da3b3b5cfeef…3b5cfeef…2022-06-20 18:55:05 asciilifeform will leave dulapbot and its station running, possibly can help in awt's debugging. but recs folx not to rely on dulapbot's #p log for any other purpose
65dac1dcf705da3b…2cd8839f…2022-06-20 23:57:54 <awt> Found a potentially relevant comment in the blatta code: # TODO how to handle out of order unrequested but not stale messages subsequent to a message in the order buffer?
30e72dbd76ae708e…51aeef18…2022-06-29 14:26:09 asciilifeform misses 'abstractly', as has nobody to buy from (won't use goxes)
feaeaeea30e72dbd…76ae708e…2022-06-29 14:27:50 <awt> A mutable web UI for pest might not be that hard to put together. Wouldn't even require js.
7080ca6dfeaeaeea…feaeaeea…2022-06-29 14:33:16 <awt> lol why hope for cheapcoinz if even then you can't buy them?
44c2314b7080ca6d…1d379bf2…2022-06-29 14:40:48 <shinohai> I won't KYC either, usually get BTC from shitcoin consulting, but the sad thing is *no one hires you* when exchange rate is this low. So haven't had any coins in months now. :(
142d610444c2314b…30e72dbd…2022-06-29 15:22:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-29#1008237 << hypothetically, for some value of 'cheap', sumbody in l1 might offer to sell
659f29f7f027ebb9…7a809f99…2022-06-21 16:42:57 <PeterL> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-21#1108032 << would signpost's luby-share thing be able to replace git over pest?
ca653b28142d6104…2a51530e…2022-06-29 15:22:10 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-29 10:33:18 awt[asciilifeform]: lol why hope for cheapcoinz if even then you can't buy them?
aeb53729659f29f7…8295305a…2022-06-21 16:43:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-21 asciilifeform: incidentally, recall how 1 of the pheatures init. touted for 'git' was 'any box can be a server' ?
c031b24fca653b28…142d6104…2022-06-29 15:28:35 <asciilifeform> shinohai: wai would the consulting dry up or otherwise depending on exch rate ?
2ae2a81faeb53729…ed669bb4…2022-06-21 17:22:34 <asciilifeform> PeterL: theoretically could pipe whatever over pest.
f0683cd4c031b24f…44c2314b…2022-06-29 15:31:36 <shinohai> asciilifeform: I believe their thought process to be "You charge $1K USD to do `x` job, paid in BTC - so we pay you 0.05 and then 1-2 weeks later price skyrockets and that 0.05 is worth $2500!!!!"
45ca66732ae2a81f…b0a9266d…2022-06-22 02:59:47 <signpost> would replace in the sense that a DHT over pest can retrieve all manner of items, including "can haz vpatch of $hash?"
e6fd1594f0683cd4…f0683cd4…2022-06-29 15:31:49 <shinohai> i.e. they always think solely in fiat terms.
5f3d8af7e6fd1594…c031b24f…2022-06-29 15:32:38 <asciilifeform> hm but if they thought in fiat terms, and given that they aint averse to using goxes, would expect they'd think e.g. 'it's still 100$ no matter what exch rate is' neh
f180375b5f3d8af7…5f3d8af7…2022-06-29 15:33:17 <asciilifeform> i.e. client can walk straight to a gox and pay you the '100$' regardless of exch rate
75cbcbcaf180375b…f180375b…2022-06-29 15:34:12 <asciilifeform> ( so long as takes care to do it at the time of the deal, rather than some unspecified later )
182cf0f675cbcbca…e6fd1594…2022-06-29 15:34:14 <shinohai> One would think, but above is the main objection I get - nevermind that year or so later it could do exact same thing or even 4x in fiat terms.
f11719c9ba44766b…c2ee2a17…2022-06-22 22:19:52 <awt> As an experiment I synced locally from scratch using my "production" blatta.db and found that the resulting db size for the station starting with a blank db is exactly the same size. So no obvious bug there. Something more subtle going on with 3 parties.
94ef51ff182cf0f6…182cf0f6…2022-06-29 15:34:43 shinohai suspects this is why so many folks now try to offer you "tether" coinz .....
375aa82e94ef51ff…75cbcbca…2022-06-29 15:37:14 <asciilifeform> would naively expect algo would be 1) contract shinohai to do $job for $x 2) immediately buy $x of btc at gox 3) wait for $job result 4) send the coin
338ba1f6b4b28fc7…94ef51ff…2022-06-29 15:39:57 <shinohai> Folks in the shitcoin sewers rarely have ideas like that it seems, the folks behind "zclassic" being notable exception. Paid 50% of agreed fee up front, no quibbling or questions asked at all.
70ea2480338ba1f6…7080ca6d…2022-06-29 20:57:17 <awt> Just counted the number of lines after a "full" sync using a copy of the #pest logs. Missing about 600 lines out of 4405 total.
4c822ab970ea2480…70ea2480…2022-06-29 20:59:17 <awt> jonsykkel: did you do anything to test syncing wild logs or verify all logs synced?
ed898eb04c822ab9…4c822ab9…2022-06-29 21:06:15 <awt> I found that syncing selfchain only resulted in a full sync of all lines originating from a station, but following netchain doesn't seem to work all that well.
dc43d022ed898eb0…b4b28fc7…2022-06-29 21:16:41 <asciilifeform> awt: at the risk of pedantry, in 3.3.1.6.4: 'A GetData Message may be emitted by a station... ...in possession of a Message for which the SelfChain or NetChain antecedent has not been received'
79fec483662fddcd…ed898eb0…2022-06-29 21:22:53 <awt> asciilifeform: yeah that is what *should* be happening in blatta.
1912d3f71c8b6e34…ff42a2ac…2022-06-23 16:47:59 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 3 days 22 hours 4 minutes and 29 seconds
d202181c79fec483…79fec483…2022-06-29 21:25:37 <awt> Seems like right now some antecedents are unreachable for some reason.
8d929c9bd202181c…d202181c…2022-06-29 21:41:45 <awt> Sadly I can't link to the relevant logic right now: http://btcbase.org/patches/9978-bugfixes/tree/blatta/lib/message.py
3ec52b443dad8e55…3dad8e55…2022-06-29 22:22:00 <asciilifeform> awt: seems like the relevant logic is in station.py tho
a6900b6c2ac63807…181fe136…2022-06-24 19:36:16 <awt> Interesting. I've been able to detect duplicate GETDATA requests on the receiver side and the sequence of dupe requests always seems to be the same.
b3690af48913feba…8913feba…2022-06-29 22:32:05 <asciilifeform> awt: the logic in clean_getdata_requests dun make sense to asciilifeform
eaa6da94a6900b6c…a6900b6c…2022-06-24 20:48:10 <awt> Looks like the issue was that blatta was not checking for both the net_chain AND the self_chain in the requested_messages hash for a given out of order message so if self_chain was broken but net_chain had already been requested, it might not catch that.
0b1c75b8b3690af4…b3690af4…2022-06-29 22:32:25 <asciilifeform> if (self.getdata_requests.get(message_hash) <
0882474e0b1c75b8…0b1c75b8…2022-06-29 22:32:27 <asciilifeform> time.time() - self.state.get_knob('getdata_requests_expiration_seconds')):
e37ffede6579051a…6579051a…2022-06-24 22:23:00 asciilifeform has been slowly rebaking pest spec into heveaistic latex
553aa5540882474e…0882474e…2022-06-29 22:32:29 <asciilifeform> del self.getdata_requests[message_hash]
e655cbd8e37ffede…aeb53729…2022-06-24 22:23:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-22 phf: asciilifeform: oh you just need http://hevea.inria.fr
db56fa75ac7f581f…ac7f581f…2022-06-29 22:38:06 <asciilifeform> awt: seems to me that in your current blatta, getdata's expire immediately
eb717581db56fa75…db56fa75…2022-06-29 22:38:49 <asciilifeform> may explain wai often enuff they go unanswered
7a007925608e0c9c…4412dfc2…2022-06-25 17:50:57 <billymg> asciilifeform: is 0xFB still the latest versioned pest spec?
7b25b89a7a007925…7a007925…2022-06-25 17:52:33 <billymg> it's been forever since i last updated the mirror, i was intentionally not including draft versions (instead just linking directly to yours at the top of the page)
55c89d5b61e524df…61e524df…2022-06-29 22:42:34 <asciilifeform> the given algo, while seems 'backward', oughta work
48e29af57b25b89a…01af6295…2022-06-25 19:48:37 <asciilifeform> billymg: indeed 0xfb is the most recent properly vpatched ver
ba18593448e29af5…48e29af5…2022-06-25 19:49:28 <asciilifeform> billymg: currently working on a mega-rewrite (using the latextron phf found)
d711e9ccba185934…ba185934…2022-06-25 19:50:44 <asciilifeform> atm trying to get 'bytefield' diagramator working w/ it, so far not got far
474eb532d711e9cc…d711e9cc…2022-06-25 19:51:35 <asciilifeform> billymg et al : if you've a handy list of things would like to see addressed / revised in next spec cut, plox to post.
72cc29a89e4aa994…338ba1f6…2022-06-30 16:42:28 <shinohai> Has anyone here ever read any of Varg Vikernes stuff? https://www.burzum.org/eng/library/about_civilization.shtml
437ad242474eb532…474eb532…2022-06-25 19:52:12 <asciilifeform> awt billymg jonsykkel signpost et al ^
7eaf94ab66735f29…9e4aa994…2022-06-30 16:54:27 <signpost> say hello to your manager michael saylor for me plz
b4a93dd67eaf94ab…66735f29…2022-06-30 16:56:39 <awt> That guy's such a dick. Always schedule's me on Friday nights.
a0fe40f0d1ba7a3b…adc1f8c2…2023-02-18 03:08:46 <signpost> damn it bobby, a man's pest keys are his sacred honor. you don't go hhwavin' then around for every lookie-lou
fdbfc7f5b6ad92f4…b6ad92f4…2023-02-18 03:20:59 <asciilifeform> hey is this the 1st recorded own goal ?
bd68ef1e0b794c14…38987243…2022-06-30 21:06:04 <signpost> something weird going on there, like the second request knocked loose the first.
bd99c6c8cdd1bd63…cdd1bd63…2023-02-18 03:25:48 <crtdaydreams> did some fiddling with iptables trying to get nat working (still seeing you as hearsay)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 938f4b7157f444806e20e8c91352c6acc1c8d316738b3dcc526d6eebecbb073b) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
c97592c2938f4b71…938f4b71…2022-06-08 23:36:46 <asciilifeform> not necessarily to be used only on dulapnet, other folx could easily operate n00b doors w/ subj
dab74416c97592c2…c97592c2…2022-06-08 23:37:53 <asciilifeform> 'op' there oughta be imho simply a hardcoded seekrit login/pw pair, req'd to connect from localhost; rather than the traditional irc concept
ad53781fdab74416…dab74416…2022-06-08 23:38:47 <asciilifeform> ( simply to set peers/keys for the thing )
e00e28faad53781f…ad53781f…2022-06-08 23:39:48 <asciilifeform> support for indiv. irc logins imho optional, dulapnet got on ok w/out it; for gagging, can use 'GAG' as req'd
802a66b4e00e28fa…e00e28fa…2022-06-08 23:42:23 asciilifeform realizes that there's anuther gnarly issue hidden in this sketch -- folx speaking through the gate will appear as selfchain forks on regular pestnet
86b5a749288c2196…288c2196…2022-06-08 23:43:43 <asciilifeform> ( same issue btw would apply to phf's idea as i understand )
4fd6021e86b5a749…86b5a749…2022-06-08 23:44:56 <asciilifeform> 1 simple if ugly workaround would be to autoprefix nicks there, e.g. dulapnet_asciilifeform .
8202279d4cd316c2…01ec2eb5…2022-06-09 00:58:14 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 42d 6h 49m
9c67ce7d873e229e…873e229e…2022-06-09 00:58:50 <billymg> i just dropped the db and did a full restore (took several minutes), bot still connected
8623e76e9c67ce7d…9c67ce7d…2022-06-09 00:59:08 <billymg> didn't accomplish what i wanted to though because "pg_restore: [archiver] unsupported version (1.14) in file header"
668f59768623e76e…8623e76e…2022-06-09 01:00:02 <billymg> i got tired of waiting for the rk to finish populating the text search column so i figured i'd dump the db, run the text search indexer locally to populate the column, then restore on the server
7fdad75f19fbc1da…19fbc1da…2022-06-09 01:01:40 <billymg> i'm gonna run the indexer on the server i guess, hopefully it'll finish by tomorrow morning
fcc825d17fdad75f…7fdad75f…2022-06-09 01:06:01 <billymg> i guess this alone wouldn't cause any issues for the bot, so long as no new lines come in, but also restarted postgres before doing the drop/restore just to flush everything out
37141b69fcc825d1…8202279d…2022-06-09 01:06:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 00:58:50 billymg: i just dropped the db and did a full restore (took several minutes), bot still connected
8f16a3f7488a254f…488a254f…2022-06-09 04:19:00 <billymg> ok, the text search index is in place on the server, i'll work on getting that rolled out friday or saturday morning
39332207cb10aa1d…47c8ee91…2022-06-09 14:58:03 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-08#1006546 << the built in ircd I used never had a concept of "ops"
c4c4790839332207…37141b69…2022-06-09 14:51:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-08 23:32:19 asciilifeform: awt: was thinking about a hypothetical blatta mod for emplacing e.g. a n00b gate in place of dulapnet;
d460accbc4c47908…39332207…2022-06-09 14:59:50 <awt> asciilifeform: I still like the idea of a bridge bot - single peer/handle that annotates messages from n00b hopper with irc nicks.
43773283d460accb…cb10aa1d…2022-06-09 15:05:16 <asciilifeform> awt: 'op' in this case is simply convention
5dedf02443773283…43773283…2022-06-09 15:07:13 <asciilifeform> simply need a means to mark which irc talker gets to issue pest cmds for peering control of the bridge station.
5a6ac3ec5dedf024…d460accb…2022-06-09 16:42:31 <awt> <cult>I wonder where mp is buried or was he cremated?</cult>
e7e5141d5a6ac3ec…f9bc940e…2022-06-09 16:40:25 <shinohai> awt: Slavegirls had a taxidermist stuff him so can have adventures "Weekend at Bernie's" style.
bcfbd6e05c3523b8…8f16a3f7…2022-06-09 17:07:05 <billymg> just had coffee with an interesting lisp and erlang guy, fully expecting it to be coffee with a surfer looking for real estate in cr
7dac3ba385369967…85369967…2022-06-09 17:08:35 <billymg> i sent him the link to http://pestnet.io in case he wants to drop in
fa041d397dac3ba3…7dac3ba3…2022-06-09 17:13:16 billymg knows he needs to bump the blatta version on there too
ab11b66ffa041d39…5dedf024…2022-06-09 17:13:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006580 << per hanbot's www, they burned him
eb5e832bab11b66f…c4c47908…2022-06-09 17:15:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 16:36:04 awt[asciilifeform|billymg]: <cult>I wonder where mp is buried or was he cremated?</cult>
dfecca1ceb5e832b…ab11b66f…2022-06-09 17:13:59 <asciilifeform> ( whether cast the ashes into dildo -- did not say )
81f779badfecca1c…dfecca1c…2022-06-09 17:16:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006585 << didja remember to give him a key? lol
8259b92c81f779ba…eb5e832b…2022-06-09 17:18:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 17:08:35 billymg: i sent him the link to http://pestnet.io in case he wants to drop in
3eb3af258259b92c…fa041d39…2022-06-09 17:21:38 <billymg> asciilifeform: i figured i'd first let him read the logs / more about pest on his own. there are links to #asciilifeform on there too, that only requires finding the seekrit password
0d2ec281ce32216a…3eb3af25…2022-06-09 17:24:41 billymg will have to bbl, irl chores for the rest of the day
262e246b0d2ec281…5c3523b8…2022-06-09 18:06:48 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006587 << ah well
3638da36262e246b…8259b92c…2022-06-09 18:00:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-09 17:15:37 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-09#1006580 << per hanbot's www, they burned him
4680b2d00000000000000000…2022-06-10 16:41:56 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-06-10#1105593
ebc444974680b2d0…5256e689…2022-06-10 16:44:14 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-10 phf: hah, my pile of poo emoji didn't go through
f59960120ee29348…00000000…2022-06-10 22:41:08 <signpost> asciilifeform: yep, here's peering info for ya for deedbot.
eeafbc05f5996012…f5996012…2022-06-10 22:45:34 <signpost> phf: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=i6V7 << for me and deedbot
e756dc94eeafbc05…eeafbc05…2022-06-10 22:48:10 <signpost> awt: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XjNV << for deedbot
d95201e7e756dc94…e756dc94…2022-06-10 22:49:37 <signpost> shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=SlFe
3f1fea50f388aede…d95201e7…2022-06-10 22:51:01 <signpost> well, going to see if being more broadly connected makes any difference.
2d656eb9e829722c…e829722c…2022-06-10 22:52:38 <signpost> jonsykkel: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=sjbj
440e4731200f89bf…200f89bf…2022-06-10 23:00:23 <signpost> looks like mighty foom of historic messages hitting deedbot now
7204beb724ec8a49…24ec8a49…2022-06-10 23:03:29 <signpost> I'm kinda curious if there's a bug specific to having a single peering using the same IP.
945cd0af7204beb7…7204beb7…2022-06-10 23:03:41 <signpost> at any rate, lmk if it stops responding to anyone.
9dc4f9b6945cd0af…95fd7941…2022-06-10 23:04:55 <shinohai> I was having trouble with same ip peering amongst stations some time ago, but just decided to throw bot station on another server.
8647bb569dc4f9b6…9dc4f9b6…2022-06-10 23:05:36 <shinohai> I think I at one point had pjone and lappy stations talking to one another.
c1bcad048647bb56…41a7df5d…2022-06-11 01:35:09 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-10#1006650 << I develop using just such a configuration. See start_test_net.sh for an example. Not saying it's not possible with "real" logs.
a5b97230c1bcad04…ebc44497…2022-06-11 01:28:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-10 23:05:46 signpost[asciilifeform]: I'm kinda curious if there's a bug specific to having a single peering using the same IP.
f5d8eb4da5b97230…c1bcad04…2022-06-11 01:35:53 <awt> Well actually there are multiple peerings in the test config, so not exactly the same.
8c16c0ecc0ea0e15…945cd0af…2022-06-11 01:42:23 <signpost> yeah just speculating over here, trying to explain what I saw.
d0bf5922c3188b02…80cd66a0…2022-06-11 01:45:08 <signpost> another thing I did was zilched both DBs. it's entirely possible I had state from an early version that was causing issues.
b4bc3d6a31cd448f…0d2ec281…2022-06-12 18:04:51 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-08#1006534 << this is live now
b325b4a8b4bc3d6a…a5b97230…2022-06-12 18:04:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-08 22:05:21 asciilifeform: billymg: when you have a chance, can plz make http://logs.bitdash.io/static/log_db.gz live ?
c81362f2b325b4a8…b4bc3d6a…2022-06-12 18:05:42 <billymg> and i reran the backlinks backfill script, so as of now 100% correct
a5dfef787d683e4e…b325b4a8…2022-06-12 18:06:00 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 45d 23h 57m
0b2c58a2025399f4…025399f4…2022-06-12 18:13:46 <billymg> regarding latest features/changes, i'm going to arrange them into two patches, one for the backlinks and one for the full text search change
0ed70f07a5dfef78…7d683e4e…2022-06-12 18:06:21 <billymg> this bot still needs to be restarted though (one in #a is up-to-date)
a8bf7f7deedf6fe0…fc6d4a2b…2022-06-12 18:19:33 <signpost> billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_-CC << peering info for you for me and deedbot. I've zeroed out my database for signpost since we last attempted.
4b9df9514f35b9df…4f35b9df…2022-06-19 16:30:55 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
dd6755c270db80f7…b90083b4…2022-06-12 18:25:29 <signpost> billymg: ah crap, I think I put port 7778 for deedbot. it should be 7779
51a22a7edd6755c2…70db80f7…2022-06-12 18:28:28 <billymg> hey, i seem to be successfully peered with deedbot now
c771225860c2a0fd…dd6755c2…2022-06-12 18:27:54 <signpost> I have to disconnect the bot and connect with weechat to manipulate peerings, sec
347d9125be154fdc…fc384a04…2022-06-19 16:37:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-18#1000033 << dupe >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000185
17cba53ebe154fdc…081322bb…2022-06-19 16:39:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-10 PeterL: thimbronion: [ http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jp13 ][apparently] you can't give the knobs a non-integer?
b11fd53ec7712258…c7712258…2022-06-12 18:29:10 signpost will make peering info for bitbot too real quick
d1472be8347d9125…347d9125…2022-06-19 16:38:20 <asciilifeform> awt: i take it you didn't trap circular getdata, lol
2edd7709347d9125…05761ddb…2022-06-19 16:39:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-18 23:50:21 asciilifeform: helloworld
05761ddb17cba53e…17cba53e…2022-06-19 16:39:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-11 scoopbot: New article on Thimbron: [ http://thimbron.com/2022/03/9980-9978-presence-bug-fixes/ ][ 9980-9978 - presence, bug fixes ]
0fa52450b11fd53e…b11fd53e…2022-06-12 18:31:33 <signpost> ok, and for bitbot http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=yGnt
857b0550d1472be8…d1472be8…2022-06-19 16:39:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-19#1000187 << wtf
b65fcf712edd7709…2edd7709…2022-06-19 16:39:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 12:36:57 asciilifeform: helloworld
e3d34194857b0550…b65fcf71…2022-06-19 16:42:22 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-19 12:37:52 asciilifeform: awt: 9982 seems to work
edb62e3bffd72a0c…194b97fd…2022-06-19 16:48:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-19#1107582 and plox to reply there
f40ff5b51dd8e171…1dd8e171…2022-06-12 18:32:49 <signpost> with the billymg -> signpost peering, tried unpeer and all that to remove me first?
952902daedb62e3b…2d28445c…2022-06-19 17:04:22 <awt> asciilifeform: no trap for circular getdata. I considered that an adversarial case so not yet handled.
1dad5b99f40ff5b5…f40ff5b5…2022-06-12 18:34:40 <signpost> and can confirm I see packets in my deedbot log coming from billymg
c3ccf1d1952902da…1e69af73…2022-06-19 16:55:37 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform is rather puzzled how could even get a circular getdata. i.e. why would it at any point issue a getdata for a msg already present in the longbuffer
83b250291dad5b99…60c2a0fd…2022-06-12 18:37:37 <billymg> signpost: not yet tried the unpeering and all that this time, but remember trying that a few times before (even clearing entire db)
afcfe5b3c3ccf1d1…c3ccf1d1…2022-06-19 16:57:48 <asciilifeform> ... evidently took place in orderbuffer
39a3694d11afbd76…11afbd76…2022-06-12 18:38:03 <billymg> going to restart the bot's station to load its new at...
fc17578f187a3643…187a3643…2022-06-19 17:02:34 dulapbot noticed that after disconnection from bot, could not issue helloworld via irssi to running blatta, had to restart the latter
d3900753e228be6d…39a3694d…2022-06-12 18:39:50 <billymg> neat, yeah, logs show it as a direct message for this line: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-12#1006703
9925b461f1c60a86…f1c60a86…2022-06-12 18:38:52 <signpost> billymg: this looks right eh? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Pf9k
f491b23273e71925…73e71925…2022-06-12 18:45:56 <billymg> still seems like it's not working for some reason
52496f74c7f12db1…c7f12db1…2022-06-12 18:44:01 <signpost> got any attempts in logs of your station attempting to send packets to mine?
3b96990652496f74…f491b232…2022-06-12 18:46:27 <billymg> bizarre, since i can peer with your bot, and you with mine (which lives on the same box as my primary station)
50f4c8944bb12f54…c6ba936f…2022-06-12 18:46:07 <signpost> and yeah, my irc client cohabitates with deedbot too
e7284ecb50f4c894…50f4c894…2022-06-12 18:46:35 <signpost> seems unlikely a networking issue is the cause.
8f315f37b2eb74a6…b2eb74a6…2022-06-12 18:49:53 <billymg> my logs don't show anything unusual when trying to dm: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=2GZJ
81054152939f5eee…939f5eee…2022-06-12 18:52:18 <signpost> disabled pf entirely on my end for the hell of it.
8ebb338ac6ebf9e0…c6ebf9e0…2022-06-12 18:54:13 <signpost> another observation. often deedbot hears signpost as hearsay, which is sorta unexpected given how quickly one oughta receive the other's packets.
cd6c1d138ebb338a…8ebb338a…2022-06-12 18:56:07 <signpost> alrighty, at least we got a connection going hopping over bots.
5d0f29bdcd6c1d13…8f315f37…2022-06-12 19:02:44 <billymg> yeah, i'm fine to chalk it up to (some very persistent) cosmic rays for now
fa27f5ff491dd828…491dd828…2022-06-13 02:41:24 <signpost> stock market is going to get gutted tomorrow, looks like.
598d77a9fa27f5ff…fa27f5ff…2022-06-13 02:41:47 <signpost> bring on the "universal basic income" and then bring on the fall.
2005d7a5598d77a9…761e09af…2022-06-13 02:41:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: any particular trigger for this lul ?
f2cd1965dda5229c…598d77a9…2022-06-13 02:42:33 <signpost> last splat they sent out one-off "stimulus" checks
7fcdc230477dc764…f2cd1965…2022-06-13 02:43:16 <signpost> ah, btc's been moving ahead of market movements. indicates who became big holders recently, I guess.
2a6a75817fcdc230…7fcdc230…2022-06-13 02:43:43 <signpost> market's taking a dump because even the fake CPI number is still red hot as of friday.
0fc0a6196bff9f69…ed9f490a…2022-06-13 02:45:31 <signpost> sure, but the vermin surrounding the central bank are starting to admit it.
fef38abd15bb5960…15bb5960…2022-06-13 02:45:52 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/goldman-trader-central-banks-appear-willing-break-some-things < e.g.
c8f8504343e9314e…fef38abd…2022-06-13 02:47:12 <signpost> even goldman who was saying "buy the dip" long after stock peak is now admitting "we're fucked til at least ~3150 S&P 500"
cef2a76ac8f85043…c8f85043…2022-06-13 02:47:35 <signpost> consumers started running their credit cards up again; fed started rolling off mortgage-backed securities
6cf8e847cef2a76a…cef2a76a…2022-06-13 02:47:53 signpost is no expert, but the turd-tank seems full atm.
653225c46cf8e847…6cf8e847…2022-06-13 02:48:26 <signpost> fed's said "demand destruction" is the only way they can stop inflation, which is a hilarious euphemism.
25dabed7653225c4…079a2cb6…2022-06-13 12:14:50 <awt> First time in a hot air balloon today. Should be fun.
012c2cceaf899a74…ebbf8971…2022-06-13 12:22:17 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006744 << some other defi scheme claiming to provide "yield" is collapsing - called Celsius. Reportedly they own 150k btc.
2d1a9ab4012c2cce…f6b86266…2022-06-13 13:33:45 <shinohai> lol awt just read that "Binance is suspending withdraws of celsius".
fa2183c35c8f81fe…5c8f81fe…2022-06-13 13:40:44 <shinohai> lol on BTC too obviously: https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1536317704990208000
138a0312fa2183c3…43e9314e…2022-06-13 14:19:03 <asciilifeform> lol, waterfall cranked 'to eleven'; reich ~really~ wants to discourage plebes from inflation-sheltering in btc, noshit
66285e77138a0312…138a0312…2022-06-13 14:19:34 <asciilifeform> expect moar, naturally, 'popped' goxes and 'mass liquidations' etc
1cc5cdf966285e77…66285e77…2022-06-13 14:22:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006754 << paywalled
10113dc6abfb2b9b…5d0f29bd…2022-06-13 14:57:58 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006768 << gaslighting to eleven. headlines all read "bitcoin falls due to inflation" "stocks down as traders worry about inflation"
19fd461010113dc6…10113dc6…2022-06-13 14:58:35 <billymg> bot might need to be restarted, since restarted the blatta station it's connected to. i remember this being an issue in the past
c08ad4d719fd4610…19fd4610…2022-06-13 14:59:10 <billymg> where looks fine in the logs but doesn't echo to connected peers for whatever reason
e83fa9f473482a97…d573616b…2022-06-13 15:06:28 <billymg> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-30#1099422 << bot now up-to-date in pest with this feature
cc347eb6e83fa9f4…990f36ff…2022-06-13 15:37:57 <PeterL> maybe I am confused, but shouldn't fears of inflation cause btc to go up?
f941ee85cc347eb6…e83fa9f4…2022-06-13 16:23:14 <billymg> PeterL: hence why i called it gaslighting, yes
6183a438f941ee85…f941ee85…2022-06-13 16:26:03 <billymg> the reich likes to define "inflation" as "prices go up", obfuscating the "why" behind "prices go up"
e67601cc6183a438…cc347eb6…2022-06-13 16:24:55 <PeterL> inflation is a force of nature that cannot be controlled, certainly has no correlation to the printing presses they are running /sarc
f9fa7013e67601cc…6183a438…2022-06-13 16:27:25 <billymg> so that the plebs who don't know any better can form a model in their head that says "prices go up means 'consumer sentiment' down means investments go down" and it sorta makes sense on the surface
808b6b18f9fa7013…f9fa7013…2022-06-13 16:32:24 <billymg> when in reality, the pump was from inflation (printing) and the crash is due to their curbing of inflation (slowing down the printing). but the way they report the CPI pleb thinks "inflation" only started in late 2021 /early 2022
6ee3f49b808b6b18…73482a97…2022-06-13 16:32:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-13 02:46:33 asciilifeform: was 'red hot' for yr+ neh
98e7db1b6ee3f49b…808b6b18…2022-06-13 16:33:18 <billymg> "why do you think your house doubled in USD terms at the beginning of 2021?" "dunno, hot real estate market i guess"
ef1b62d28e5be8cb…98e7db1b…2022-06-13 16:34:01 <billymg> "why are gas and groceries going up" "putin caused inflation!"
14dbcdecef1b62d2…e67601cc…2022-06-13 16:32:06 <PeterL> I've heard some people say the response to inflation should be to issue more stimulus checks "to help the little guys"
373dc25914dbcdec…ef1b62d2…2022-06-13 16:35:22 <billymg> all to prevent pleb from every coming up with correct working model
158e8bb0373dc259…6ee3f49b…2022-06-13 16:35:23 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-15 asciilifeform: sometimes working model comes w/ tangible bonuses (e.g. folx who went long on btc in 2010s, instead of paying into pension fund lulz), but not always
775975505c49a66c…8e5be8cb…2022-06-13 16:33:33 shinohai quite astonished no clamoring for "UBI" yet ....
817e189bbe1dc81a…14dbcdec…2022-06-13 16:33:38 <PeterL> well, obviously, gas prices are going up because "Biden did that" - or because Russia invaded Ukraine, depending on who you ask (although some people say both, Trump would have apparently kept Russia out of Ukraine)
a91dae719c23b401…817e189b…2022-06-13 16:34:43 <PeterL> I think they just changed the name from UBI because it got some negative connotation somewhere, they are still trying to come up with a name everybody likes
a2d6ba87a91dae71…77597550…2022-06-13 16:34:47 <shinohai> Print more to pay for monthly netflix bill and doritos/mt dew
f78388d2a2d6ba87…a91dae71…2022-06-13 16:35:54 <PeterL> those greedy corporations are at fault, if they didn't raise the prices on everything then we wouldn't be having inflation
c80f5562f78388d2…9c23b401…2022-06-13 16:42:25 <billymg> lol when i load this page the price briefly says $11847 before switching to the current exch rate: https://bitcoinwisdom.io/markets/gdax/btcusd
e97920dc337baf0e…337baf0e…2022-06-19 16:19:29 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 6 minutes and 25 seconds
454cb4f7e97920dc…d8c3ec36…2022-06-19 16:30:24 <awt> shinohai: pestbot just crashed due to an decoding error. Gonna check it out.
3ad55eb2e27f74f6…abfb2b9b…2022-06-13 17:10:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006786 << see e.g.
f86583003ad55eb2…158e8bb0…2022-06-13 17:13:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-13 15:39:48 PeterL[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: maybe I am confused, but shouldn't fears of inflation cause btc to go up?
920acc5be885ab01…e885ab01…2022-06-19 16:19:30 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 6 minutes and 25 seconds
c1cde2fd920acc5b…920acc5b…2022-06-19 16:19:31 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 6 minutes and 25 seconds
e530cbcc10404f30…10404f30…2022-06-19 16:19:32 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 1 hours 6 minutes and 25 seconds
b80dcd69939a7051…653225c4…2022-06-13 17:14:00 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-13#1006786 << not if much of what drove the last rally was paper leverage and bullshit.
f97d68dce20247cc…1f223904…2022-06-19 16:23:09 <awt> Simply, message that triggered GETDATA not dumped until timeout - which is rather long due to a bias towards a potentially long sync for spinning up new stations.
fd36ee2eb80dcd69…f8658300…2022-06-13 17:16:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-13 15:39:48 PeterL[asciilifeform|signpost|billymg]: maybe I am confused, but shouldn't fears of inflation cause btc to go up?
92cc16d1fd36ee2e…0bb1b6bb…2022-06-13 17:14:28 <asciilifeform> some unknown % of the exch rate ( possibly ~all gains since '17 ) consists of gox bunkum
bfacb8df92cc16d1…b80dcd69…2022-06-13 17:14:42 <signpost> on the longest time scale, yes, but that doesn't mean that a bunch of US banks going tits-up again TBTF style wont hurt the goxrate near-term.
79249321bfacb8df…bfacb8df…2022-06-13 17:15:05 <signpost> see also: saylor's gigantic leveraged BTC position.
5a5c2e9379249321…79249321…2022-06-13 17:15:14 <signpost> I hope that explodes too. fuck them all. I wasn't done buying.
056d67445a5c2e93…92cc16d1…2022-06-13 17:18:39 <asciilifeform> reich strategy of 'print fiatola, buy btc, give away at xx% discount' worx a++ because the goxes provide an 'amplifier' (the leveraged positions) and not all that much print req'd
343a948f056d6744…056d6744…2022-06-13 17:19:39 <asciilifeform> this, per asciilifeform's model, is why in '17 'legalized' goxes to begin with.
63c07981770b8c6e…fd36ee2e…2022-06-13 17:22:28 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: w/out goxing and usg.tolerated shitcoin proliferation, the exchrate of a 'banned like cocaine' btc would very likely track usd debasement monotonically and do to usd what usd did to sov ruble.
8a43885463c07981…5a5c2e93…2022-06-13 17:20:14 <signpost> yep. later limiting btc to "accredited investors" would not surprise me.
2d464cf38a438854…770b8c6e…2022-06-13 17:20:58 <asciilifeform> would be rather like 'limit mousetraps to accredited mice'
e600e7692d464cf3…8a438854…2022-06-13 17:22:19 <signpost> note that it would require demonstrating that one holds enough to be "accredited" to buy more.
174745d3e600e769…e600e769…2022-06-13 17:23:08 <signpost> anyway, hail satan, and good luck to everyone getting in at what is probably one of the last opportunities.
ffd9f858174745d3…2d464cf3…2022-06-13 17:23:36 asciilifeform already for many yrs does not consider goxes any kinda reasonable place to buy btc -- for various obv. reasons
786d5fc0ffd9f858…ffd9f858…2022-06-13 17:24:17 <asciilifeform> tho iirc ( per shinohai's findings ) some still will send to 1xx
b308149a786d5fc0…174745d3…2022-06-13 17:24:27 <signpost> if you know where to move a few hundred k company store credits for btc all ears.
c701a436b308149a…b308149a…2022-06-13 17:25:13 <signpost> but yeah, I have had no problems with kraken, and know some folks that ended up there.
4af35b238981a3ee…786d5fc0…2022-06-13 17:25:57 <asciilifeform> near as can tell, hardly anyone is letting go of ~actual~ coin. if there were somehow a mechanism for separate price discovery of actual (vs goxtronic) coin, likely would reveal some surprises
f6723a874af35b23…8981a3ee…2022-06-13 17:26:46 <signpost> what's actual coin if not coin that ends up at a 1-addy?
5ed67d932714baed…f6723a87…2022-06-13 17:27:29 <signpost> kraken ceo at least seems ideologically palatable, but I admit he's one guy likely to be digested and shat by the empire.
11c969995ed67d93…5ed67d93…2022-06-13 17:27:55 <signpost> in either case one transfers a bit of money, transacts, immediately moves btc out, repeat.
47fbecb311c96999…2714baed…2022-06-13 17:28:07 <asciilifeform> gox operators divide into 'digested' and 'notyet'
8bb076c8b81e698b…2327117f…2022-06-14 15:02:36 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, United States - peers: 105 - last probed: 3m ago
1266bb428bb076c8…8bb076c8…2022-06-14 15:02:36 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, United States - peers: 80 - last probed: 5m ago
aee45e2e1266bb42…1266bb42…2022-06-14 15:02:36 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, Canada - peers: 67 - last probed: 5m ago
cb739359aee45e2e…aee45e2e…2022-06-14 15:02:36 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, United States - peers: 54 - last probed: 5m ago
29c01130cb739359…cb739359…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=740768, v=88888, France - peers: 51 - last probed: 5m ago
a82251a829c01130…29c01130…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=740769, v=70001, United States - peers: 48 - last probed: 5m ago
0422d1aca82251a8…a82251a8…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, Romania - peers: 37 - last probed: 5m ago
129e01520422d1ac…0422d1ac…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=740770, v=99999, Norway - peers: 32 - last probed: just now
9ed099b0129e0152…129e0152…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=714482, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 29 - last probed: 3m ago
aaa204359ed099b0…9ed099b0…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=740770, v=99999, United States - peers: 26 - last probed: 1m ago
17be9db3aaa20435…aaa20435…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=740768, v=99999, United States - peers: 22 - last probed: 5m ago
e5f7629317be9db3…17be9db3…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=740768, v=99999, United States - peers: 19 - last probed: 6m ago
00158387e5f76293…e5f76293…2022-06-14 15:02:37 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=740769, v=99999, United States - peers: 8 - last probed: 5m ago
ab1c78aaa45a9b03…da45c381…2022-06-17 05:17:30 <awt> "herd and dad is easier to beat"? google fails me
f651bf270000000000000000…2022-06-17 15:31:09 <phf> awt: together with frens it's even easier to beat up dad
c24e7d46e9bb653e…e9bb653e…2022-06-17 15:35:53 <asciilifeform> phf: are you using own cl pestron nao ?
bcac030e0000000000000000…2022-06-17 15:38:33 <phf> asciilifeform: i've always been using own cl pestron, but i switched from reading logs to hand unpacking packets. the decoder is there, but the pipeline is manual :)
c9861df7cb4c2fec…cb4c2fec…2022-06-17 15:39:27 <asciilifeform> phf: consider posting , even if thing aint half done just yet
8d8a200ec9861df7…c9861df7…2022-06-17 15:40:07 asciilifeform will add to links , then, and we can say 'we've 3 prototypes!'
a8a60dba8d8a200e…8d8a200e…2022-06-17 15:40:52 asciilifeform at one time started on a cl pestron, but not got far before sank into salt mines again
985bcc06dcd48239…dcd48239…2022-06-18 17:57:12 <asciilifeform> awt: in replays on new bot test, seeing oddities like '13:56 < awt[asciilifeform|asciilifeform|asciilifeform]> Indeed.'
5141c5b3e6ca3ae3…e6ca3ae3…2022-06-18 18:01:42 <asciilifeform> awt: in misc. bugreports, bot has been syncing for ~10min nao (and carrying on) but asciilifeform's station still displays 'no packets received...' in 'at' output for same
69406a8e5141c5b3…5141c5b3…2022-06-18 18:03:33 <asciilifeform> also peculiarly, the replays seem to come in bursts , where in given burst -- in order, but the bursts per se in ~random order
cd5d834369406a8e…69406a8e…2022-06-18 18:03:54 <asciilifeform> ( evidently the 'reorder' mechanism not worx... )
24fc5ccecd5d8343…cd5d8343…2022-06-18 18:05:54 <asciilifeform> billymg: how do you issue wot/at/etc config cmds to your bot w/out disconnecting the logotron from same ?
f687369124fc5cce…24fc5cce…2022-06-18 18:07:28 <asciilifeform> billymg: ... and, given that blatta dun seem to support 'slave' -- how do you strip the hearsayism from the logged msgs in your logotron ?
f940bd6224fc5cce…2cf74824…2022-06-18 18:09:52 <billymg> asciilifeform: i don't, i start the bot with the --address-table-path flag pointing to bot-at.py file
22b81efaf6873691…f940bd62…2022-06-18 18:10:07 <billymg> i mean i start the bot's pest station with that flag
d8d7a1fe22b81efa…f6873691…2022-06-18 18:08:36 <asciilifeform> there dun seem to be a 'keys table path'
46533eb7d8d7a1fe…22b81efa…2022-06-18 18:13:23 <billymg> asciilifeform: you'll need this patch for pest network compatibility: http://billymg.com/2022/01/new-logotoron-patches-bug-fixes-and-enhancements/?b=Another&e=lines#select
b88aa82346533eb7…46533eb7…2022-06-18 18:14:25 <billymg> asciilifeform: if you press from my latest you'll be good to go
cb109491b88aa823…d8d7a1fe…2022-06-18 18:12:55 <asciilifeform> hm so it zaps ~all~ hearsay annotations ??
89bf841a45617e08…45617e08…2022-06-18 18:15:47 <billymg> they are stored in the db, and they are displayed in the html in the title tag
8314c6e32a51a0c4…2a51a0c4…2022-06-18 18:14:04 asciilifeform was gonna use his good ol' reader.py unchanged
f7496737d0fa38a9…8314c6e3…2022-06-18 18:14:47 <asciilifeform> was gonna simply plug in bot to throw msgs in db, not open up the hood on reader.py
89aa90d0d0fa38a9…d0fa38a9…2022-06-18 18:17:10 <billymg> asciilifeform: your theme won't be displayed any differently if that's what you're worried about
4d794e32f7496737…89aa90d0…2022-06-18 18:17:56 billymg posted those patches back in january, never heard anything from anyone
baa97a594d794e32…4d794e32…2022-06-18 18:18:54 billymg also mentioned several times in the logs about the hearsay annotations being in the title tags
f737635abaa97a59…baa97a59…2022-06-18 18:19:55 <billymg> asciilifeform: btw, the keys are embedded in the bot-at.py file, that's how blatta handles it
d5e34bd3f737635a…f737635a…2022-06-18 18:22:11 <billymg> asciilifeform: looks like this for ref: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1n_G
262dbf48d5e34bd3…f7496737…2022-06-18 18:20:39 <asciilifeform> billymg: right, just finally nao asciilifeform got around to testing these w/ own hands, lol
22942567262dbf48…262dbf48…2022-06-18 18:21:50 <asciilifeform> it aint billymg's fault that asciilifeform made hand-tweaks to own reader.py and so nao can't simply swap out for billymg's w/out headache
0ea1175fafd795c9…afd795c9…2022-06-18 18:25:47 <billymg> asciilifeform: could be that applying the patch manually just werks
3b8aad610ea1175f…0ea1175f…2022-06-18 18:27:35 <billymg> ah, here's the part about the hearsay annotations
ff1387978e664302…3b8aad61…2022-06-18 18:54:37 <billymg> asciilifeform: you've got 'is_pest' set to 1 in the bot's config?
a48821c8120b3857…120b3857…2022-06-18 18:53:26 <asciilifeform> bot saw the trigger, too. but somehow not seeing its answr on pestnet
902dcada1711e1aa…5a8c732a…2022-06-18 18:56:15 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 1d 16h 56m
b72e2832902dcada…1711e1aa…2022-06-18 18:56:34 <billymg> (just making sure not some general weather related issue)
c9a5cd8c93f73e21…7c96d7c7…2022-06-18 18:55:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest << fwiw at least eats
27254aae769e03db…769e03db…2022-06-18 18:56:01 <asciilifeform> awt ^ the hearsay marking issue from earlier, visible there
01f2a346b646d2e3…80891e72…2022-06-18 18:59:44 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 2m
a5024f203eea0113…3eea0113…2022-06-18 19:00:09 <asciilifeform> ( apparently join delay in my cfg still )
431bc78ba5024f20…a5024f20…2022-06-18 19:01:35 asciilifeform will import old msgs from billymg into the thing at some pt
d04a55ac431bc78b…431bc78b…2022-06-18 19:03:55 <asciilifeform> folx who want to peer directly w/ dulapbot -- plox to gpggram key/at !
e24ab557d04a55ac…d04a55ac…2022-06-18 19:08:16 asciilifeform still annoyed that one can't issue pest ctrl cmds to a pestron with bot sitting on it
20293878e24ab557…93f73e21…2022-06-18 20:12:05 <billymg> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-06-18#1000012 << test
1278015420293878…01f2a346…2022-06-18 20:09:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-18 14:55:36 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest << fwiw at least eats
eb3d8ff012780154…20293878…2022-06-18 20:13:57 <billymg> yeah, will be good to have this soon, as of now nsa log links on bitdash will tunnel to the wrong line
de02acadeb3d8ff0…902dcada…2022-06-18 20:13:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-18 19:03:59 asciilifeform: will import old msgs from billymg into the thing at some pt
2086011bbf8ddf50…bf8ddf50…2022-06-18 20:11:57 asciilifeform recs not to rely on the indices from dulapbot atm
4c115c580000000000000000…2022-06-19 03:52:33 <phf> well well well looks like we gut ourselves a packet
1d928bba4c115c58…25c05bab…2022-06-19 03:56:09 <asciilifeform> wb phf . i take it, yer pestron 2way nao ?
fcb2b1941d928bba…1d928bba…2022-06-19 03:57:02 asciilifeform plugged an awt pestron into asciilifeform's logotron earlier today
d14d272e340f3af4…340f3af4…2022-06-26 21:30:44 <whaack> what is the keyword for blatta commands? how do i run getdata?
3b927850d14d272e…aaff8bc6…2022-06-26 21:31:29 <awt> whaack: %at for example will list your address table
9b08c9093b927850…3b927850…2022-06-26 21:32:05 <awt> You should be seeing GETDATA messages in your log if you have debug logging on.
657ced133b927850…a1fc00a6…2022-06-26 21:34:39 <whaack> awt: oh i think the getdata was running by itself
ddbac5ff657ced13…657ced13…2022-06-26 21:34:52 <whaack> and i just got spammed with so much that my buffer got messed up somehow
e947b8d6ab436d8e…ab436d8e…2022-07-07 04:43:54 <signpost> seems like deedbot can't hear me in direct message yet.
0bf08867ec5cb1bb…ec5cb1bb…2022-07-07 05:11:10 <signpost> looks like it's chugging through some GETDATA requests.
87880ce6214185fe…0bf08867…2022-07-07 05:19:32 <signpost> there's still strange lag between this thing and deedbot. gonna dig into that moar tomorrow.
6d40fce16a908eaa…5d016736…2022-07-07 05:21:00 <signpost> yeah, direct messages are what lag or fail entirely.
673a36d86e66b94e…6e66b94e…2022-07-07 05:50:48 <signpost> in deedbot's pest log I saw a flurry of GETDATA after that, and apparently that message never made it to the bot.
463025e5847be11f…847be11f…2022-07-07 05:53:42 <signpost> interesting, deedbot sent out that !!help response according to logs.bitdash.io, but I didn't get it
de670604463025e5…463025e5…2022-07-07 05:54:25 <signpost> something off, gonna hit the hay and look at it again tomorrow.
92a30493a46dae21…06ac857e…2022-07-07 17:06:43 <signpost> PeterL: I'm hearing you as hearsay for some reason.
fd294a0292a30493…92a30493…2022-07-07 17:09:44 <signpost> shoot me your current ip:port if you don't mind.
2559f39cc3f17686…c3f17686…2022-07-07 17:41:44 <signpost> and I can see an attempted broadcast for ^ in my log too
2fffdc16026a2d44…026a2d44…2022-07-07 17:46:07 <signpost> PeterL: whatcha got for AT for me currently?
8fb376372fffdc16…ebc12af7…2022-07-07 18:17:53 <PeterL> signpost: per awt, my port shows up as 55565. for you I have 96.43.130.234:779, which is the same as deedbot
ee9d2bc1ac164a29…efd647a9…2022-07-07 18:25:05 <awt> Bleh. lekythion's irc lib can't handle blatta's message formatting somehow
b47f3dd9e499d46a…a372bc9a…2022-07-07 18:27:01 <signpost> your port updated back to 55565 on my end after your message.
0a3e2cb1916c68e0…e7da656c…2022-07-07 19:44:59 <whaack> phf: thank you for expressing shared thoughts re spam in logs, as mentioned before pest seems to have a higher SNR already, it's hard to read dulap net now
910d722d0a3e2cb1…0a3e2cb1…2022-07-07 19:45:31 <whaack> signpost: not too bad, hands are feeling not perfect, but better today
db2deba8910d722d…910d722d…2022-07-07 19:46:21 <whaack> i owe it to not having surfed or typed for a week and also for having made a conscious effort to not fall asleep in a position that stops blood flow (trying to sleep on my back rather than on my shoulder)
15650b33db2deba8…916c68e0…2022-07-07 19:46:08 signpost hears mention of ergonomics, gets off ass at standing desk.
dd37f974820d1f80…15650b33…2022-07-07 19:48:13 <signpost> whaack: I'll say for my part that engaging the juvenile trolls might've been annoying, but the alternative without voice model or pest in place was to let them dominate.
f8b9ecea39d12a33…5801c04f…2022-07-07 19:49:57 <whaack> i am thinking of adding a command (name to tbd, call it profit-between-dates for now) that looks like this !e pbd 1Fg...ab 2022-01-01 2022-02-01 that returns the difference between new utxos and consumed utxos for the time interval
74459932f8b9ecea…f8b9ecea…2022-07-07 19:50:38 <whaack> does anyone know a block explorer that offers this atm? (i.e. give an address and a time window and see how much coins that address collected/lost over the time interval)
5b7f73b974459932…39d12a33…2022-07-07 19:59:14 <signpost> wouldn't be surprised if a few of them offer that via API, but still a good feature for yours.
4920503aeed89622…5b7f73b9…2022-07-07 20:05:06 <signpost> asciilifeform: seeing you as bounce atm, can haz current AT?
3064add34920503a…eed89622…2022-07-07 20:07:10 <asciilifeform> signpost 96.43.130.234:7778 2022-07-06 │
3b4d73cec35fbb54…40ba77ca…2022-07-07 20:08:10 asciilifeform looking fwd to a working sect.5, tho sadly not has cycles to bake w/ own hands
d6452b923b4d73ce…3b4d73ce…2022-07-07 20:08:47 <asciilifeform> atm we're, lol, doing half of the machine's work with bare hands
bd368292d6452b92…c35fbb54…2022-07-07 20:10:35 signpost can think of far lesser snowpiercers in which to fiddle between the gears.
cebd2f2e2e186dfd…2e186dfd…2022-07-07 20:11:44 <signpost> asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-07#1008464 << might need to updoot your end too
2fa45e12cebd2f2e…f53c2603…2022-07-07 20:12:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-07 14:24:21 signpost: PeterL give 66.69.38.97:7778 a try for me
18657a0d621f1703…cebd2f2e…2022-07-07 21:08:31 <signpost> mod6: cool, receiving packets from ya over here.
37f6de9618657a0d…d6452b92…2022-07-07 21:40:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-07#1008595 << tsk. 2 stations w/ same wot keys is 'error of pilotage' (tho not disastrous)
a4de280237f6de96…2114571e…2022-07-07 21:40:06 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-07 10:33:26 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: started getting this http://zzz.st/up/HiZKXBsn at 5:43 UTC
b1bfa259a4de2802…18657a0d…2022-07-07 21:41:31 <signpost> I moved the station, and started the old one instead of deedbot's (which resided on same box)
16e0100ce0e95b97…b16414dd…2022-07-08 01:19:24 <signpost> just making sure blatta's capable of the important things.
e51931ef16e0100c…e0e95b97…2022-07-08 01:20:04 <awt> I'm clearly not imaginative enough to be handling text input
6290db7c0000000000000000…2022-07-08 18:44:34 <phf> ..and i need to eval some forms to see last messages, but it's chugging along
c873e16f6290db7c…7571a166…2022-07-08 18:45:24 <asciilifeform> a++. phf even if not 100% 'for the ages' quality, consider to post; a cl pestron is a major win imho
dd1dd363c873e16f…ced4ce4f…2022-07-08 18:47:19 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008566 << Fixed, that'll be 1 bitcent please.
782b96a6dd1dd363…2fa45e12…2022-07-08 18:47:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 14:43:02 asciilifeform[billymg]: whaack: iirc shinohai currently has login to that box ( it's in asciilifeform's rack ), possibly can fix
fe86961c782b96a6…c873e16f…2022-07-08 18:48:11 <asciilifeform> shinohai: makes asciilifeform nostalgic for ye olde deedbot wallet, then could actually give bitcent...
25cc4ec8082514dc…082514dc…2022-07-08 18:48:34 <shinohai> deedbot wallet was truly one-of-kind service.
3633757a3362b3c9…af685bef…2022-07-08 18:53:59 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 19 days 10 minutes and 30 seconds
45bef5a23633757a…95aba304…2022-07-08 19:34:09 <whaack> awt: is there a command line arg to not run getdata on connect?
a59a34fa45bef5a2…34013ab8…2022-07-08 19:44:40 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008562 << for this link, it might be helpful to add the GET params status=alive and returned_peers=true, e.g. http://bitdash.io/nodes/?status=alive&user_agent=any&species=TRB-Compat&returned_peers=true
17d81ce5a59a34fa…782b96a6…2022-07-08 19:41:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 14:39:01 asciilifeform[billymg]: replaced ancient static noades list w/ link to billymg's thing
de029dcbba6ba410…820d1f80…2022-07-08 19:46:07 <PeterL> whaack: I think it was discussed to add a knob for that in the future, but nothing has been added yet
ebb7c1217edaad30…7edaad30…2022-07-08 19:46:32 <whaack> i'm about to connect my trbexplorer here and i wanted to forgo all the spam
ae1c17d1ebb7c121…de029dcb…2022-07-08 19:47:34 <PeterL> might be useful to connect manually and let the backlog finish rolling in before connecting the bot to the station?
a9aa5ac8ae1c17d1…ba6ba410…2022-07-08 19:52:24 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008555 << http://billymg.com/2022/01/new-logotoron-patches-bug-fixes-and-enhancements/#S1-L1
310ff70fa9aa5ac8…17d81ce5…2022-07-08 19:49:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 14:06:12 whaack[signpost|billymg]: anyone have a guide for connecting asciilifeform's bot to pestnet? any extra steps necessary? about to attempt
4a490a09310ff70f…a9aa5ac8…2022-07-08 19:53:32 <billymg> more specifically, these are the only lines necessary for making the commands work properly in pest
713bf8064a490a09…4a490a09…2022-07-08 19:54:27 <billymg> just to work around the [hearsay] annotations. otherwise asciilifeform's bot worked seamlessly with pestnet out of the box, i didn't have to make any modifications
561fe79f469d1aea…be6aef87…2022-07-08 20:46:11 <whaack> billymg: in my irc client, i used the various commands %peer trbexplorer, %key trbexplorer mykey, %at trbexplorer ip:port
41309717561fe79f…561fe79f…2022-07-08 20:47:03 <whaack> then for trbexplorer i added an address table file and added the command line param --address-table-path
fda6814b0000000000000000…2022-07-08 21:02:31 <phf> does blatta track chains at the moment? i've been sending messages with 0 selfchain, and presumably nothing's been complaining
9cc107af00000000fda6814b…2022-07-08 21:20:12 <phf> this should be valid seflchain. not that anything anywhere will notice...
3d41f09e9cc107af…e51931ef…2022-07-08 21:26:16 <awt> phf: yes, blatta tracks cahins, but if a message breaks the chain and no GETDATA response arrives, it's still dumped to the client eventually anyway, unmarked.
d73b75bd000000009cc107af…2022-07-08 21:27:47 <phf> but not in the case of selfchain 0? it just silently treats it as a new chain?
a9c8eba8d73b75bd…39b7fccc…2022-07-08 21:28:30 <asciilifeform> phf: iirc chains not currently used in blatta at all with exception of triggering 'getdata'
83118c79ed2eb1e8…b369fd4c…2022-07-08 21:29:10 <whaack> awt maybe you can help me get my bot online here
c3b9e64ad8fc96a7…83118c79…2022-07-08 21:29:38 <whaack> running out of ideas as to why i can't peer my bot with 'whaack'
bc78ca41c3b9e64a…1b6cdb53…2022-07-08 21:30:04 <awt> phf: at one time I had a local implementation of all that - was a mess and discarded it. Haven't gotten back to it.
a04115c9bc78ca41…8e97e97e…2022-07-08 21:29:51 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008576 << any future implementation would need to create ambiguity re: who holds privkeys.
9db1118ea04115c9…310ff70f…2022-07-08 21:30:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 14:48:41 shinohai[billymg|signpost]: deedbot wallet was truly one-of-kind service.
105c184b9db1118e…a04115c9…2022-07-08 21:30:21 <signpost> otherwise one guy's just eating a bunch of externalized risk; same shape problem as led to pest.
d149c859d0da0ddd…c3b9e64a…2022-07-08 21:31:30 <whaack> awt: if i am properly peered, packets should go back and forth between my irc client blatta and bot blatta, regardless of whether the bot has connected to irc and tried to join the channel, correct?
c171c10b58289202…d149c859…2022-07-08 21:31:58 <whaack> awt: in my irc client when i type %at i get " trbexplorer 205.134.172.28:7780 no packets received from this address"
e0154923c171c10b…c171c10b…2022-07-08 21:32:53 <whaack> one gotcha was i had the wrong ip set in the bot's configs, and updating the address-table i fed on start did not change the actual realnet.db , but i've since resolved that issue, so now i am not sure where to go
5766eac0e0154923…e0154923…2022-07-08 21:33:13 <whaack> on my bot's blatta end the logs only show the 2 lines
cc0cb8db5766eac0…5766eac0…2022-07-08 21:33:15 <whaack> INFO 2022-07-08 17:24:44,359: Listening for Pest packets on udp port 7780.
8b546f5bcc0cb8db…cc0cb8db…2022-07-08 21:33:16 <whaack> INFO 2022-07-08 17:24:44,360: Listening for IRC connections on port 6670
4afcab998b546f5b…d8fc96a7…2022-07-08 21:33:51 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform at one pt contemplated a crackpot 'solution' where (sumbody obv. has the privs) but some # of folx store pre-signed tx (of e.g. a bitdime) from x -> y , and these somehow uncorked when req'd
8935a7644afcab99…8b546f5b…2022-07-08 21:34:19 <whaack> awt: or anyone peered with me can you confirm that %at gives you "whaack 198.211.117.133:7780"
ca296e728935a764…58289202…2022-07-08 21:34:48 <awt> whaack 198.211.117.133:7780 2022-07-08 14:34:24.698708
1ccffbc8493022bd…ca296e72…2022-07-08 21:38:14 <awt> whaack: you can set the LOG_RUBBISH env var to log rubbish messages on your bot station
8b37c2bb1ccffbc8…1ccffbc8…2022-07-08 21:38:33 <awt> Should report where they're being sent off to, if sent at all
a684186b8b37c2bb…f28ca6c4…2022-07-08 21:38:31 <signpost> asciilifeform, yep. it'd also be nice to have side channels where conversation doesn't go straight to public loggers.
ba26049d00000000ed2eb1e8…2022-07-08 21:40:57 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-poc.png some assembly required
72400fd01f015c1e…1ae21715…2022-07-08 21:42:59 signpost did some farting around with cl ncurses libs yesterday.
34f6f958a642536f…1f015c1e…2022-07-08 21:44:27 <whaack> awt: nothing being sent , dont see any msg after i ran 'export LOG_RUBBISH=1' and restarted blatta
376a1c8a00000000ba26049d…2022-07-08 21:44:46 <phf> signpost: not plans re ui. ive played with different options, but everything's subpar. and presumably one wants a console version, so some form of vt, and a gui
7dede231376a1c8a…a642536f…2022-07-08 21:45:10 <awt> whaack: are you certain it has anything in the AT?
d95d48ff7dede231…34f6f958…2022-07-08 21:45:24 <whaack> asciilifeform: is it possible udp is not allowed on your server by defrault?
12362324b1fe083c…b1fe083c…2022-07-08 21:45:42 <whaack> awt: i checked the db file at looks good it seems
a41069a912362324…7dede231…2022-07-08 21:46:10 <awt> whaack: maybe connect with weechat and do a listing
79e35097cba3bfcb…cba3bfcb…2022-07-08 23:05:31 <whaack> awt: during the getdata sync blatta crashed and gave this error http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cj38
b1da404ba41069a9…72400fd0…2022-07-08 21:48:28 <signpost> phf: yep, I didn't love anything yet re: "tui" libs. several of them are basically ncurses ffi with some crap sprinkled on top.
f300859f813c1c7c…813c1c7c…2022-07-08 23:21:33 <whaack> awt: bot managed to respond before, but now when it tries to send a msg i get 'Aborting message: unknown handle: #aleth'
df4ae3fff300859f…f300859f…2022-07-08 23:22:18 <whaack> billymg: maybe you have seen something like this?
243a7b5043925768…43925768…2022-07-08 23:30:03 <whaack> awt: seems like the problem si that blatta thinks #aleth is a direct message instead of to a channel
05fcdd32e7b768f3…243a7b50…2022-07-08 23:43:03 <whaack> awt: it's the target of my bot, but the bot did not join the channel #aleth, so i think that is the confusion
614aaa6486792411…86792411…2022-07-08 23:46:29 <whaack> anyone else get join/part spam specifically from billymg?
42849b0764bdbb62…fb672892…2022-07-08 23:45:10 <trbexplorer> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=EFTA 1 of 1
3ea564e2fb672892…64bdbb62…2022-07-08 23:47:48 <whaack> i think i may have crashed other blattas by sending an empty message
d4c631a084eaa4d5…cfb1a1ec…2022-07-08 23:47:27 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
d079f455d4c631a0…723a8bf1…2022-07-08 23:51:04 <whaack> not sure why my bot is finnicky but i am guessing it is because it is being hit with spam from getdata
466ddd34a5d3a29e…d4c631a0…2022-07-08 23:47:39 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
347db79790c32b30…90c32b30…2022-07-08 23:54:38 <whaack> everything showed up in logger delayed as well
0c512f01347db797…7c83e355…2022-07-08 23:57:02 <crawlerbot> whaack[billymg|billymg]: my valid commands are: src, uptime, help, net-summary, version, trb-status
462fec1dcda8cabb…4afcab99…2022-07-08 23:59:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1008834 << nifty, precisely as asciilifeform pictured it
b9ef551d462fec1d…a4de2802…2022-07-08 23:59:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 17:40:59 phf[asciilifeform]: http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-poc.png some assembly required
bdfa79c6b9ef551d…347db797…2022-07-09 00:00:31 <whaack> awt: probably because my blockexplorer started sending getdata requests
81b13ab9bdfa79c6…4c50f4dd…2022-07-09 00:01:37 <awt> whaack: likely because a response from the bot had a forked netchain value
708abfb98dd86cc2…cda8cabb…2022-07-08 23:59:13 <trbexplorer> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=GP_x 1 of 1
577d2af08dd86cc2…462fec1d…2022-07-09 00:01:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1008832 << this aint difficult to arrange (anybody can start a net). however, see also.
6953f516708abfb9…963c7914…2022-07-09 00:04:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1008850 << a++
963c7914577d2af0…577d2af0…2022-07-09 00:02:40 <asciilifeform> moar folx historically burned by assumption of seekrecy in a group than by just about anyffin
dbcd53f6577d2af0…b9ef551d…2022-07-09 00:02:40 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 17:38:52 signpost[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, yep. it'd also be nice to have side channels where conversation doesn't go straight to public loggers.
147c80766953f516…6953f516…2022-07-09 00:04:29 asciilifeform would still like an integrated client where cut&paste work (i.e. xorg proggy) but not expects any time soon, is over9000 sweat
1b16cd346953f516…47315e3a…2022-07-09 00:04:30 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 17:52:20 phf[asciilifeform]: that is remote station keeps track of state, and you can connect to it with a rich interface of some sort
8f53adf2dbcd53f6…dbcd53f6…2022-07-09 00:02:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: there's an ukr joak, 'one ukr -- is a fine fella. two ukrs -- best buds. three ukrs -- is a partizan brigade with a traitor'
47315e3a8f53adf2…8f53adf2…2022-07-09 00:02:40 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-04-14 ascii_field: 'what three know, the sow knows' (TM)
6594a750e572b0b7…3b0acbe9…2022-07-09 00:11:36 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
bb2925e16594a750…e572b0b7…2022-07-09 00:16:02 <whaack> !e view-balance 16ftSEQ4ctQFDtVZiUBusQUjRrGhM3JYwe
6a52e278bb2925e1…bb2925e1…2022-07-09 00:16:02 <whaack> From Top 500 Richest Bitcoin Addresses | 99 Bitcoins
1484690fbb9463bc…bb9463bc…2022-07-09 00:16:17 <whaack> !e view-balance 16ftSEQ4ctQFDtVZiUBusQUjRrGhM3JYwe
a14b9f361484690f…1484690f…2022-07-09 00:16:18 <whaack> From Top 500 Richest Bitcoin Addresses | 99 Bitcoins
6ddb7530cc9de9fd…a14b9f36…2022-07-09 00:17:02 <whaack> !e view-balance 16rCmCmbuWDhPjWTrpQGaU3EPdZF7MTdUk
b1145bd1d1f56139…6ddb7530…2022-07-09 00:18:30 <whaack> !e view-balance 1P5ZEDWTKTFGxQjZphgWPQUpe554WKDfHQ
ddf9938f5620af72…5620af72…2022-07-09 00:26:01 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008744 << yep, no argument to contrary. would want a future item to introduce more secrecy, not less.
62b8c17eddf9938f…6bea91c0…2022-07-09 00:26:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 20:02:46 asciilifeform[billymg]: moar folx historically burned by assumption of seekrecy in a group than by just about anyffin
6a57a12ffd1156ef…fd1156ef…2022-07-09 00:30:26 <shinohai> !e view-balance 1MyfLJS8ZKw5zS6cjdiEVM69i8ZwCaDVM6
62f8e8751ccad1cb…d01d4b1a…2022-07-09 00:36:57 <signpost> awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008739 << what does the duplicate billymg mean here?
96595a4d1ccad1cb…c19e5a3b…2022-07-09 00:47:54 <awt> signpost: the order buffer on versions up to 9976 doesn't expect duplicate messages, so doesn't dedup handles properly when for example when for some reason ...
8ebfb8b162f8e875…62b8c17e…2022-07-09 00:37:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 20:00:56 crawlerbot[billymg|billymg]: whaack[billymg|billymg]: my valid commands are: src, uptime, help, net-summary, version, trb-status
7e93d35d96595a4d…96595a4d…2022-07-09 00:48:23 <awt> multiple GETDATA requests are triggered for the same message and multiple responses are received.
4e39bb458ebfb8b1…62f8e875…2022-07-09 00:37:10 <signpost> does that mean his station passed that message to itself once?
213327fa4e39bb45…4e39bb45…2022-07-09 00:37:25 <signpost> curious because I've never been able to get a peering going with him.
4973fa54c3482f4d…c3482f4d…2022-07-09 00:48:54 signpost setting up over here with the intellij debugger so I can stop asking lazy questions
3552507a4973fa54…7e93d35d…2022-07-09 00:49:22 <awt> or something close to that. I have a version here that prevents that from happening but haven't yet published
6fb6d8a300000000376a1c8a…2022-07-08 21:51:07 <phf> i'm thinking of doing a plan9 style approach, where remote pest station just dumps raw messages, but one can connect to it over e.g. ssh using some simple gui, like ltk, and get a semblance of usable experience
d440b01c000000006fb6d8a3…2022-07-08 21:52:18 <phf> that is remote station keeps track of state, and you can connect to it with a rich interface of some sort
de8a7242d440b01c…a706a151…2022-07-08 21:52:55 <signpost> seems sensible to not couple tightly to a particular client.
df68bdb1b70b4384…b70b4384…2022-07-08 21:54:05 <whaack> whaack 198.211.117.133:7780 no packets received from this address
3918260ddf68bdb1…a41069a9…2022-07-08 21:55:16 <awt> whaack: in that case odd that you wouldn't be seeing rubbish messages going out in the log
b55792e23918260d…df68bdb1…2022-07-08 21:55:44 <whaack> awt: i started seeing rubbish messages once i connected my ic client
45c14380b55792e2…b55792e2…2022-07-08 21:56:07 <whaack> so looks like the rubbish msgs dont get sent until the client conects
ee9428d345c14380…3918260d…2022-07-08 21:56:16 <awt> ah hmm. must be some condition there based on the client connection existing that I forgot about
1e107e6170f005fb…70f005fb…2022-07-08 21:58:30 <whaack> <whaack> 002 Your host is whaack, running Blatta 9976 and Pest 0xFC
a20e2ecc0b24feb4…0b24feb4…2022-07-08 21:58:55 <whaack> which leads me to believe that they are indeed communicating even though %at says they haven't sent a packet
a1267d75a20e2ecc…ee9428d3…2022-07-08 21:59:28 <awt> those are sent from the built in irc server on connect only to your irc client.
8a8621716ee543d0…6ee543d0…2022-07-08 21:59:56 <whaack> awt: didn't you have some trick to test if udp was working?
e871fa378a862171…a1267d75…2022-07-08 22:00:26 <awt> whaack: at one point I resorted to using tcpdump
b8aa584de871fa37…e871fa37…2022-07-08 22:01:06 <awt> you could set it up at either end on the ports which should be receiving traffic
852f277c566eabf2…8a862171…2022-07-08 22:02:22 <whaack> hm i thought it was like "echo -n "hello" >/dev/udp/192.168.1.102/8000"
bd787db4852f277c…852f277c…2022-07-08 22:02:38 <whaack> i can do that on my irc box and i canot do it on my bot's box... may be telling
c5a84b8f559856f4…559856f4…2022-07-08 22:11:12 <whaack> i can send garbage udps between the two and they correctly detect the garbage
254d954cc5a84b8f…c5a84b8f…2022-07-08 22:11:21 <whaack> but when they send legit msgs via blatta neither side sees anything from the other
88521993254d954c…0bb782a7…2022-07-08 22:21:50 <signpost> might be time to step the thing through a debugger.
f399156bcaae0959…3879b8f1…2022-07-08 22:25:36 <awt> yeah you could put a breakpoint where data is read from the udp port for a sanity check
afbbb086f399156b…caae0959…2022-07-08 22:27:24 <whaack> i wonder if there is anyway there is some problem with the name of my computer on my bots end being 'whaack'
63dae75dafbbb086…afbbb086…2022-07-08 22:28:35 <whaack> might do debugger later, ready to throw in the towel soon
56b12e2c63dae75d…3362b3c9…2022-07-08 22:44:07 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008637 << dope phf
6bea91c056b12e2c…9db1118e…2022-07-08 22:44:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 17:41:04 phf[billymg]: http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-poc.png some assembly required
4d520dd6bf0aa0e2…bf0aa0e2…2022-07-08 23:01:25 <whaack> awt: got them to peer, should i guess that my bot is going to be spammed with getdata and thus will not be operable?
f9f87cc9000000003ce255fa…2022-07-09 00:56:31 <phf> doesn't seem to barf on newlines, but i actually sent foo~%bar. probably should handle it on my side, but perhaps needs to be a clarification in spec
9b48a02400000000f9f87cc9…2022-07-09 01:12:41 <phf> И҆ вни́де ї҆и҃съ въ це́рковь бж҃їю и҆ и҆згна̀ всѧ҄ продаю́щыѧ и҆ кѹпѹ́ющыѧ въ це́ркви, и҆ трапє́зы торжникѡ́мъ и҆спрове́рже и҆ сѣда҄лища продаю́щихъ гѡ́лѹби, и҆ гл҃а и҆̀мъ: пи́
d90027d69b48a024…6a57a12f…2022-07-09 01:14:44 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008797 << I have nfi why but he's only person here I have not yet successfully peered with.
f21cb113d90027d6…8ebfb8b1…2022-07-09 01:14:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 20:37:47 signpost: curious because I've never been able to get a peering going with him.
1d516215f21cb113…6debab5c…2022-07-09 01:44:19 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1009006 << bahaha
df0a5f141d516215…1d516215…2022-07-09 01:44:48 <asciilifeform> ... weirdly enuff, the echo bombed asciilifeform's local blatta
9819453ec82e965e…c82e965e…2022-07-09 01:46:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1009017
fd3699559d126efd…9d126efd…2022-07-09 01:47:04 <asciilifeform> ( and only on asciilifeform's station , again )
12dd3aa4fd369955…fd369955…2022-07-09 01:48:16 <asciilifeform> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd0 in position 75: ordinal not in range(128)
114a659009e7fced…09e7fced…2022-07-09 01:48:37 <asciilifeform> self.client.message_from_station(message)
25687942114a6590…114a6590…2022-07-09 01:48:39 <asciilifeform> File "/home/stas/blatta/blatta/blatta/lib/client.py", line 50, in message_from_station
29e9f1f525687942…25687942…2022-07-09 01:48:41 <asciilifeform> self.__writebuffer += formatted_message + "\r\n"
9c0c54fcad71af8d…29e9f1f5…2022-07-09 01:50:25 <asciilifeform> possib enuff clue in there for awt to have moment of upsight
74d4fe9200000000ad71af8d…2022-07-09 01:50:42 <phf> i'm working on proper text break, so that i can quote the Word of God properly
063621970000000074d4fe92…2022-07-09 02:01:35 <phf> hmm, i've not gotten either messages from dulapbot, e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1009020
54677f4306362197…60bbe0be…2022-07-09 05:17:42 <asciilifeform> phf: dulapbot looks to be still standing
ae8184f054677f43…54677f43…2022-07-09 05:17:57 <asciilifeform> ( how -- nfi, given that it eventually eats the unilulgrams errytime )
430c3e754b64bee2…4b64bee2…2022-07-09 02:19:04 <awt> weechat seems to break multiline messages into separate messages
82b9577e430c3e75…430c3e75…2022-07-09 02:20:21 <awt> I believe IRC protocol breaks messages using carriage return
38ee6c49522aa18f…30538951…2022-07-09 15:53:00 <whaack> shinohai: do you also get the join/part spam from billymg?
7f111574fd70e53e…98a275bb…2022-07-09 15:49:51 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
5d8427523597a4fb…7f111574…2022-07-09 15:49:59 <trbexplorer> whaack: time since my last reconnect : 0d 16h 9m
12610b905d842752…522aa18f…2022-07-09 15:53:44 <shinohai> whaack: I was seeing join/part from both asciilifeform and billymg - I just turned on weechat smart filtering so no biggie now.
c582641c12610b90…12610b90…2022-07-09 15:54:22 <shinohai> I was prolly doing it a few days ago, my pest was on a server with shit pipe, since resolved.
c3901505a2c27335…a2c27335…2022-07-09 16:05:14 <billymg> i have it on my todo list to move my pest station to a local box, possibly that'll fix some of the lingering issues (not being able to peer with some people, join/part)
1efb3162ca552bb8…7d34f72e…2022-07-09 16:02:51 <signpost> yeah, I moved mine local. doesn't make a lot of sense to put the fault-tolerant thing elsewhere and make a single point of failure of it via e.g. ssh
905f1eee88c59fb3…c3901505…2022-07-09 16:20:14 <billymg> whaack: nah, it's residential tier, changes every coupla weeks
1207a551905f1eee…1efb3162…2022-07-09 16:17:36 signpost also on residental, but pest nodes oughta deal with that properly.
48b27d791207a551…1207a551…2022-07-09 16:18:04 <signpost> happy to cause myself w/e problems arise and see if something needs fixing.
120163aa48b27d79…88c59fb3…2022-07-09 16:27:10 <whaack> so pest nodes should be able to broadcast new IPs and automatically update the ATs of their peers
7073b528120163aa…ae8184f0…2022-07-09 16:32:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-09#1009057 << the odd thing is that on asciilifeform's end, no corresponding join/part storm from shinohai
051825707073b528…7073b528…2022-07-09 16:33:04 asciilifeform ftr just witnessed anuther uniturd crash of blatta w/out an obvious trigger (proximately -- echo from prev line)
bd5d7d5a05182570…05182570…2022-07-09 16:33:35 <asciilifeform> 'UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xd0 in position 75: ordinal not in range(128)'
a33acd0bbd5d7d5a…bd5d7d5a…2022-07-09 16:36:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-09#1009065 << fwiw asciilifeform's is currently on dynamic (1-2 swaps / yr) ip, but opened a port for it, mostly worx in that respect
17e2f7d4a33acd0b…c582641c…2022-07-09 16:36:59 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008872 << Strangely enuf my ISP doesn't do the whole "change ip address" erry few months thing. I've had same address for *years* now.
dc9837e717e2f7d4…a33acd0b…2022-07-09 16:37:01 <asciilifeform> holyfuck, erry single echo from dulapbot crashes asciilifeform's station nao
f4883c5417e2f7d4…d2ef9cee…2022-07-09 16:37:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 12:17:30 billymg: whaack: nah, it's residential tier, changes every coupla weeks
deb3cb1edc9837e7…905f1eee…2022-07-09 16:46:22 <billymg> shinohai: around here it seems to change whenever there's a local power outage (which i assume is affecting upstream because my internet will go out despite my modem and router being connect to a UPS -- i.e. local network still works, but no internet)
f0bbf1cfd63823fa…d63823fa…2022-07-09 16:45:03 <asciilifeform> same type as prev, prolly triggered by a replay
601e3f43f0bbf1cf…f0bbf1cf…2022-07-09 16:45:22 <asciilifeform> strange that dun seem to affect anybody else afaik
024e5462601e3f43…601e3f43…2022-07-09 16:46:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: over here, fiber typically live for ~2h in outage ( asciilifeform seen the inside of the rack by the railroad tracks, there's a standard 'apc' 1000va 2u ups in there )
53eb735b024e5462…df781045…2022-07-09 17:20:00 <awt> asciilifeform: whatever station is crashing should be logging the unicode to the console prior to the exception, if it's still happening in client.py line: 50. This is after decrypting and unpacking a message received via pestnet.
9ff3cc5d53eb735b…53eb735b…2022-07-09 17:26:27 <awt> Otherwise since I have no idea what is causing the crash, I'll add a handler there and log some error.
d2dc94e29ff3cc5d…e6e5b8fa…2022-07-09 17:45:39 <billymg> asciilifeform: i'd be thrilled with 2 hours of runtime in an outage, would cover 99% of outages here. my own ups(es) good for about 1hr
850a7624d2dc94e2…d2dc94e2…2022-07-09 17:46:30 <billymg> sadly, sometimes even when lights just flicker for a moment -- internet cuts out upstream
c5b14039850a7624…850a7624…2022-07-09 17:47:06 <billymg> makes me believe they've got 0 redundancy, at least for their residential tier
5daca07300000000902b25f3…2022-07-09 02:31:12 <phf> so i'm going to repeat http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-08#1008833, if one checks the log on asciilifeform's there's a dulapbot response, but not on bitdash
8dd1579d5daca073…f21cb113…2022-07-09 02:31:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 22:01:43 phf[billymg]: hmm, i've not gotten either messages from dulapbot, e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-08#1009020
163ef6b0000000005daca073…2022-07-09 02:33:38 <phf> awt: yeah, multiline is more of a frontend concern, but note that irc chats don't always break long lines correctly. e.g. utf-8 encoded strings might get broken in the middle of a multibyte character, or else using naive character count as opposed to byte count (which would be longer)
0b1b98f2163ef6b0…82b9577e…2022-07-09 02:41:23 <awt> asciilifeform could possibly try initializing the string literal from whence formatted_message comes as a utf-8 string.
259b0106cb8ee154…dca62435…2022-07-09 03:03:27 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
98a275bb4840d8d8…259b0106…2022-07-09 03:04:34 <trbexplorer> whaack: time since my last reconnect : 0d 3h 23m
cd8824240000000000000000…2022-07-09 04:11:25 <phf> И҆ вни́де ї҆и҃съ въ це́рковь бж҃їю и҆ и҆згна̀ всѧ҄ продаю́щыѧ и҆ кѹпѹ́ющыѧ въ це́ркви, и҆ трапє́зы торжникѡ́мъ и҆спрове́рже и҆ сѣда҄лища продаю́щихъ гѡ́лѹби, и҆ гл҃а и҆̀мъ: пи́
b6d0afce00000000cd882424…2022-07-09 04:11:25 <phf> сано є҆́сть: хра́мъ мо́й хра́мъ мл҃твы нарече́тсѧ: вы́ же сотвори́сте и҆̀ верте́пъ разбо́йникѡмъ. † Мф.21:12-13
82778b7400000000b6d0afce…2022-07-09 04:15:50 <phf> ^ http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-06-30#1109786
d2ef9cee82778b74…8dd1579d…2022-07-09 04:15:59 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-30 signpost: and ftr jesus whipping the scum out of the temple's always been my favorite jesus.
60f803020000000000000000…2022-07-09 21:16:17 <signpost-dev> connected a local dev station of blatta to my primary station.
880f811e60f80302…17e2f7d4…2022-07-09 21:21:47 <shinohai> `apt install signpost-dev` ... After this operation, 483 kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
937d0028880f811e…024e5462…2022-07-09 21:50:03 <asciilifeform> billymg: may be worth pricing 'commercial' tier (over here it gets nuffin over the regular kind, other than static ip, but costs ~triple, go figure)
4090f057d5a51511…d5a51511…2022-07-09 22:23:37 <signpost> awt: there are a few places where you have "if something unexpected happened, ignore" checks in methods.
17308fc34090f057…4090f057…2022-07-09 22:23:51 <signpost> would you be opposed to me cutting a patch to turn these into assert statements that loudly blow up when they occur?
ef87434f17308fc3…17308fc3…2022-07-09 22:24:02 <signpost> they seem like good places for unexpected behavior to go unnoticed.
f630eeb8c05bc257…9ff3cc5d…2022-07-09 22:43:02 <awt> signpost: long_buffer.py#33 is an expected case for the first message received on a net.
d0b0b500f630eeb8…f630eeb8…2022-07-09 22:45:54 <awt> In cases where some outcome is really not expected then yeah assertions would be great
ea054c56c7101465…d0b0b500…2022-07-09 23:22:05 <awt> signpost: no case where that's not a bug, I agree
4229d72c19ca2ac7…19ca2ac7…2022-07-09 23:22:33 <signpost> janitorial tasks are always helpful when settling into new coad.
4dae17f84229d72c…de8741c8…2022-07-09 23:24:14 <signpost-dev> also I am entertained as all hell with how easy it was to get a development copy of this thing connected to the network.
4d29b29ab24ba73d…0081c0c1…2022-07-09 23:30:30 <awt> Glad to hear that. Very nice to have someone else who understands the code especially since debugging p2p is substantially harder than debugging client/server stuff.
44892bc34d29b29a…4229d72c…2022-07-09 23:31:37 <signpost> hey man, at least the p2p coad isn't wrapped in 5,000 layers of guice indirection.
8a6d993c13ba7468…13ba7468…2022-07-09 23:42:48 <awt> If anyone's looking for non-libtard scifi, Steelstorm by THOMAS777 is recent and notbad.
c886a5588a6d993c…880f811e…2022-07-09 23:50:09 <shinohai> All right, I'll read it but if any of the robots use pronouns imma burn it.
b6b03f32041c6692…041c6692…2022-07-10 00:33:56 <awt> It's very fragmented and suggestive. Much left to the imagination. Also quite short.
28799af0275e2ec6…b6b03f32…2022-07-10 01:01:10 <awt> phf: above author claims to be inspired by Heinlein. Starship Troopers was great, but he also wrote some pretty weird shit.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 9c37e60112cf98eec7dd0d57d6dcb213f54337b76504c76a61c44c599344efcd) prior to <crtdaydreams> ---
53818294d6862d44…f8c676e9…2022-07-10 02:48:07 <signpost> your station is probably syncing and replaying messages.
9bfca7e2d6862d44…d6862d44…2022-07-10 03:32:46 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008935 << not quite sure what happened here with $USER
461fbc399bfca7e2…b10a9ef2…2022-07-10 03:32:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 22:52:52 chad[billymg]: hello?
556801279bfca7e2…9bfca7e2…2022-07-10 03:34:06 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008938 << ty shinohai, it appears we're not peered correctly yet?
c9207aa355680127…461fbc39…2022-07-10 03:34:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 22:58:26 shinohai[signpost]: welcome crtdaydreams
1300eae1dceffd55…7e7f6fc5…2022-07-10 03:39:46 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008967 << lol yeah no clue what is special about those messages, or the particular clique of nodes involved.
77f3511e1300eae1…c9207aa3…2022-07-10 03:39:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 23:33:08 phf[billymg]: awt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzsNh3-FnHQ
ff910e426ec5a612…6ec5a612…2022-07-10 11:17:59 <crtdaydreams> shinohai you're not showing up in stanis logs either http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest
ac3baa3177f3511e…1300eae1…2022-07-10 03:45:13 <awt> There was an issue in the past where messages ending in whitespace would be rebroadcast with the whitespace chopped off, causing dupes.
9ed24646232a8d24…232a8d24…2022-07-10 11:23:05 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: for some reason you weren't in my AT, nor even peered and not showing up in my peers but doing a getdata sync somehow or another?
587275268c733e34…8c733e34…2022-07-10 03:51:32 <awt> phf why are the first two integers different here? 50 vs. 52: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Mhfb
1a052eeed46d642c…d46d642c…2022-07-10 11:22:23 shinohai also needs to dig up jonsykkel's peering info, must have forgotten to add it in during last overhaul ....
b163e4bb9ed24646…9ed24646…2022-07-10 11:23:50 <crtdaydreams> shinohai, best bet might try a rekey, setting up now
4b645c06b163e4bb…1a052eee…2022-07-10 11:25:43 <shinohai> crtdaydreams: My AT info was posted here in chan the other day, lemme know if you need me to link it.
5ba4afca9afaf623…9afaf623…2022-07-10 11:28:51 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: try that http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=tXVt
c4e17f155ba4afca…4b645c06…2022-07-10 11:29:00 <shinohai> Try to %unpeer shinohai then add me back. My AT is 67.205.140.207:7778
b3d053cbc4e17f15…a6900591…2022-07-10 14:31:09 <awt> Will try to get a patch out for the unpeer bug soon.
7607ae3f44b6fa6e…44b6fa6e…2022-07-11 00:09:53 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: probably a good idea not to run two pest instances in the same dir, as I had two of the same key in ./data/peer/
ea220235b3d053cb…c4e17f15…2022-07-10 14:34:30 <shinohai> iirc I patched this in previous version on bench, just forgot to submit here for peer review - and it didn't make it to latest press.
e581699a06a6ffc3…99da5810…2022-07-10 23:09:10 <awt> jonsykkel: this seems a little weird: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=uCG_
89fad9578ebaf63c…8ebaf63c…2022-07-11 00:34:17 <awt> Also - found an issue with 9975 - don't update yet.
dacbbb8187850714…1ca2423d…2022-07-11 03:29:36 <asciilifeform> phf: a proper pestron will blast 'prods' on warmup and at certain freq. subsequently
8de6175f29088327…29088327…2022-07-11 03:34:49 <crtdaydreams> awt: pest peering info http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=40dr
c4f0ecf4bf5f6c03…bf5f6c03…2022-07-11 00:35:04 <signpost> since it's already in the log might want to just issue an errata vpatch.
9723c7068de6175f…8de6175f…2022-07-11 03:38:45 <crtdaydreams> whaack: if you may; http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1BRS peering info
0b4521a39723c706…9723c706…2022-07-11 03:42:15 <crtdaydreams> and billymg; http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6gfd peering info
af8d7ee00b4521a3…e917ae0a…2022-07-11 03:46:06 <awt> crtdaydreams: if you add a key for my handle you should get my address automatically
214d203bd7ab64f4…af8d7ee0…2022-07-11 03:51:45 <awt> crtdaydreams: anyway not getting any packets from you
970edae9d7ab64f4…d7ab64f4…2022-07-11 03:51:46 <crtdaydreams> see it's doing what happened with shinohai again
bb4352c9970edae9…970edae9…2022-07-11 03:53:55 <crtdaydreams> you're broadcasting getdata somehow yet I still see you has hearsay
7dda22aa5ee2446f…5ee2446f…2022-07-11 03:55:15 <crtdaydreams> you don't come up as a direct peer either, my AT hasn't been updated with your address
a19a98797dda22aa…214d203b…2022-07-11 03:56:24 <awt> hrm jonsykkel shouldn't smalpest update the AT on receipt of IGNORE packets?
53f832897dda22aa…7dda22aa…2022-07-11 03:57:02 <crtdaydreams> fwiw when I was testing on my own machine the AT updating worked fine
e9ba0ecb53f83289…c4f0ecf4…2022-07-11 03:56:46 <signpost> seems like my station might be crash looping atm.
9d1196b753f83289…53f83289…2022-07-11 03:58:47 <crtdaydreams> signpost, no that's not you, that's thimbronion that's hearsay, we just peered
0682fd529d1196b7…560ed376…2022-07-11 03:58:58 <awt> from my log: [10.210.138.157:7778 crtdaydreams] <- BROADCAST hrm jonsykkel shouldn't smalpest...
7e0400f69d1196b7…9d1196b7…2022-07-11 03:59:49 <crtdaydreams> awt try %unpeer crtdaydreams and see if you crash
e8fda63864683040…64683040…2022-07-11 03:57:49 <signpost> crtdaydreams: you may have a NAT issue on your end if you're not receiving my packets.
992528420682fd52…0682fd52…2022-07-11 03:59:47 <awt> signpost: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9974-fix-exhume.vpatch
d4551f5c7e0400f6…99252842…2022-07-11 04:00:33 <awt> crtdaydreams: I just released a patch that fixes %unpeer
1182bbd87e0400f6…7e0400f6…2022-07-11 04:01:57 <crtdaydreams> awt I see that, I'm just trying to figure out what's happening, that's what killed shinohai's station the other day if it does it again it's more than just %unpeer
4c658b7ae8fda638…e8fda638…2022-07-11 03:58:00 <signpost> I'm receiving yours, and others are receiving mine.
d377e9861182bbd8…d4551f5c…2022-07-11 04:02:40 <awt> crtdaydreams: I get it it's just that I already tested unpeer several times tonight
89d104201182bbd8…1182bbd8…2022-07-11 04:03:32 <crtdaydreams> awt righto. I ought to set up testing w/ blatta myself and try and replicate it
19bb7a2a94f24b4f…94f24b4f…2022-07-11 11:36:22 <crtdaydreams> PeterL: may I ask for my sites rss to be added to scoopbot please?
b471af5fb395af82…b395af82…2022-07-11 13:37:01 <crtdaydreams> PeterL oh oki, all good, I haven't uploaded in yonks but will probably be throwing something up soon
72e00d28311ed138…311ed138…2022-07-11 13:35:03 <PeterL> hmm, it looks like I already added your site a while ago
20797445b471af5f…72e00d28…2022-07-11 13:37:57 <PeterL> although, looks like the bot is down at the moment.
0968bdf991d01251…d377e986…2022-07-11 13:46:06 <awt> 9974: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9974-fix-exhume.vpatch http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9974-fix-exhume.vpatch.sig
b61fb368e89b4ea8…e89b4ea8…2022-07-13 13:21:29 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zGaTE2AmsU
4472bd8fb61fb368…b61fb368…2022-07-17 04:03:20 crtdaydreams is still unsure what is going on with AT, whaack, billymg, et al. are still hearsay, blatta 9974 didn't patch, I didn't find the time to look at it last week, but if anyone has any ideas, perhaps someone willing to try a re-peer?
b42c595d5ac0e4b6…b7a4d586…2022-07-11 22:21:48 <signpost> awt: ^ oughta be usable now. seems like it gets stuck.
ad082f3c4cb6a9fe…8c42072e…2022-07-13 13:43:08 <scoopbot> PeterL: my valid commands are: src, uptime, help, list, remove, add, version
323b84484472bd8f…4472bd8f…2022-07-17 04:05:18 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-16#1010096 << I'm tickled by that notion; the guy that made that particular mix also did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQfrbMfDXE
ed58f2e8b42c595d…b42c595d…2022-07-11 22:22:27 <signpost> might be a bug on the deedbot side, not sure. I'm at some point going to get a pest station feeding directly into its postgres db to remove complication.
25711a4aad082f3c…4cb6a9fe…2022-07-13 13:56:34 <PeterL> hmm, ignore scoopbot for now, still fidling with it
0a14b01c25711a4a…6d422135…2022-07-13 14:19:32 <shinohai> PeterL: can haz a nyoo peering key for you & scoopbot?
e5d5c62b22ee19d4…5d842752…2022-07-11 22:23:34 <trbexplorer> whaack: time since my last reconnect : 2d 22h 42m
b7f7071dec345fb1…52be682a…2022-07-13 14:21:43 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/57512CE78CF08BB25FE277A4B16136257FB8FBDD.asc
5287b4c2404983c3…404983c3…2022-07-17 04:39:54 <crtdaydreams> signpost: holy moly, the new wot visualizer is beautiful
f3d184bf9bf2701c…e5d5c62b…2022-07-11 22:25:25 <trbexplorer> whaack: time since my last reconnect : 2d 22h 44m
ee2770415287b4c2…e7312a78…2022-07-17 14:14:25 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009859 << I think I posted in logs here somewhere that this was head-scratcher for me at first but "makes sense" you will occasionally see messages as hearsay from others you are peered with.
800aa48ff3d184bf…1bab7707…2022-07-11 22:31:06 <whaack> signpost: doesn't look like it's just deedbot that gets stuck.
f4d55d64ee277041…88a3658b…2022-07-17 14:14:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 00:03:30 crtdaydreams[signpost]: is still unsure what is going on with AT, whaack, billymg, et al. are still hearsay, blatta 9974 didn't patch, I didn't find the time to look at it last week, but if anyone has any ideas, perhaps someone willing to try a re-peer?
f954e6346a33891b…1dd3e5fe…2022-07-19 03:47:00 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
f4955bd360ea465a…60ea465a…2022-07-19 03:49:29 <crtdaydreams> been watching carefully over past few days for the indicator of where the markets headed
9a291c725cdf7895…4a488d0f…2022-07-11 22:31:23 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 8d 1h 48m
ea2ccca8eabf4c80…eabf4c80…2022-07-17 14:25:27 <shinohai> Also damn Russia bringing the bants this morning: https://twitter.com/Amb_Ulyanov/status/1548069793185480709
b57beef51dd3e5fe…99efe850…2022-07-17 19:35:37 <billymg> i generated a bunch of peering keys for bitbot and crawler bot, sharing them for anyone who would like to peer with the bots
56506df22b1b69be…421bdc56…2022-07-19 03:47:36 signpost has a feeling in his butt that coins will be cheaper still.
4480aa589a291c72…800aa48f…2022-07-11 22:32:02 <whaack> it often seems as if my bot wants one more message before it sends a reply
d88318ddea2ccca8…c0c5e57d…2022-07-17 14:40:16 <awt> crtdaydreams: try renaming the sig file extensions for 9975, 9974 from .sig to .thimbronion.sig
d1d92f36b57beef5…b57beef5…2022-07-17 19:35:41 <billymg> asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=uKlq
6b176c9d4e2315a4…e3654e5b…2022-07-19 03:53:31 <signpost> well, when your studies yield a more reliable predictor than my butt I'll happily split your profits 50/50.
4f25b5a1d88318dd…d88318dd…2022-07-17 14:49:37 <awt> crtdaydreams: add this to your AT: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=M8it
406162b329c31c13…29c31c13…2022-07-19 04:07:37 <crtdaydreams> would like to bring up hypothetical hardware excursions once again, something that's been on my mind as of late is shortwave, is the idea to strap an antennae to an FPGA (with some DSP
aa570dc2cf75bacf…06a6ffc3…2022-07-11 22:33:41 <busybot> The bot has been up for: 22 days 3 hours 50 minutes and 11 seconds
399e2cfad11d5b11…d11d5b11…2022-07-17 19:36:23 <billymg> crtdaydreams: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=4Y9q
8fe73408399e2cfa…399e2cfa…2022-07-17 19:36:54 <billymg> jonsykkel: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XuQc
6a75846a886c5936…cbb66f28…2022-07-19 04:36:35 <asciilifeform> 'let's make airplane, just need to strap some wings to engine'
460a2156886c5936…886c5936…2022-07-19 04:50:31 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-19#1010294 << point made
b7d8ac36460a2156…42d415ed…2022-07-19 04:50:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-19 00:36:35 asciilifeform: 'let's make airplane, just need to strap some wings to engine'
12409eb3460a2156…67412753…2022-07-19 12:24:46 <PeterL> btw, not sure if it was clear, the scoopbot here is starting with a blank slate. If you want to add your own websites for him to watch, do '!s add your.site/rss'
8396c87300aca5b0…00aca5b0…2022-07-19 04:38:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-18#1010051 << romans usedto cut open a sheep to 'see where markets headed', worked approx as well
5b604a868396c873…396518ce…2022-07-19 04:39:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-18 23:49:40 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: been watching carefully over past few days for the indicator of where the markets headed
790ab796ca51397d…ca51397d…2022-07-19 21:59:53 <crtdaydreams> sad to see fare sucked into shitcoinism
b821e1ae0280e53d…0c512f01…2022-07-11 22:40:25 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 1m ago; last restart: 1m ago
9196d140221e3eaf…dc645290…2022-07-19 17:49:13 <awt> crtdaydreams: did you add me to your AT? Still not getting any direct packets from you
727eeac0790ab796…18344c25…2022-07-19 22:00:49 <signpost> eh, buyers of those are just buying bitcoin for somebody else.
bd8ead6176f1fa83…76f1fa83…2022-07-11 22:44:06 <billymg> in working on this i updated the crawlerbot pairing for billymg, forgot to revert
c863c03d30f70d60…30f70d60…2022-07-17 19:42:18 <billymg> i don't have IPs for phf, dulapbot, busyboy, and trbexplorer. so if you'd like to peer with one of those please send me the IP
3e8fbaa2c034bad3…c034bad3…2022-07-19 18:08:14 <signpost> it's a bleeding edge gentoo, but hey, better than the mangina install it had before.
7b1dcfd6bd8ead61…9a291c72…2022-07-11 22:41:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 12:02:30 billymg: i have it on my todo list to move my pest station to a local box, possibly that'll fix some of the lingering issues (not being able to peer with some people, join/part)
3f31d85bc863c03d…c863c03d…2022-07-17 19:43:12 <billymg> i'd also like to peer billymg with the bots in here but i plan to move that station soon and rekey for all existing peers anyway so i didn't include peering keys for that handle yet
a41c9fea3e8fbaa2…3e8fbaa2…2022-07-19 18:08:44 signpost will poast a signed disk image when ironed out a bit more.
8a47e35a3f31d85b…3f31d85b…2022-07-17 19:43:32 <billymg> and also for phf, since we're not peered yet
4d53d077a41c9fea…12409eb3…2022-07-19 21:16:16 <PeterL> I'm going to go sit in the woods Up North, won't be answering for about a week.
eca5fad7a7024ffe…b821e1ae…2022-07-11 22:44:49 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7343; TRB-Compatible: 29; TRB: 15
98b5d774eca5fad7…eca5fad7…2022-07-11 22:44:49 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 7; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Singapore: 3; Brazil: 1; Canada: 1; Italy: 1; Algeria: 1; France: 1; Andorra: 1; Sweden: 1; United Kingdom: 1; Belgium: 1; Ukraine: 1; Spain: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
c571552d98b5d774…98b5d774…2022-07-11 22:44:50 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 9; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
20b8b6394bd2aeac…4bd2aeac…2022-07-20 21:45:24 <crtdaydreams> awt: check peering info http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Ugbc
28cb9fb7c571552d…bd8ead61…2022-07-11 22:54:17 <billymg> that's an all time high for TRB nodes (since the crawler started keeping track of the stat)
63df01e120b8b639…20b8b639…2022-07-20 21:46:17 crtdaydreams has not had a successful peering from whaack and billymg either
da77935fbc98d644…c571552d…2022-07-11 22:52:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 267 - last probed: 29m ago
e24307a693226a88…4fa8afda…2022-07-20 19:25:51 <awt> asciilifeform: how should port and address be ordered in a PestAddress: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_draft.html#3112-pestaddress? Should port come first?
8b5ac01af44d6a96…f44d6a96…2022-07-21 00:04:37 <awt> ah yes IP addr was completely different in latest gpggram
bae2cb6e52b48991…52b48991…2022-07-21 00:25:36 <crtdaydreams> still hearsay, I haven't got around to testing, I gotta do a bit of shitfuckery with iptables to run the two at once
dfd3106fda77935f…da77935f…2022-07-11 22:52:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=744612, v=70001, United States - peers: 70 - last probed: 30m ago
7e023347e24307a6…8396c873…2022-07-20 19:52:15 <asciilifeform> awt: good q, loox like asciilifeform failed to specify properly. port goes 1st.
cfa12b5dbae2cb6e…8021051a…2022-07-21 00:27:22 <awt> crtdaydreams: what do you have for me in your AT?
d65dbd3bbae2cb6e…bae2cb6e…2022-07-21 00:28:38 <crtdaydreams> awt [no ip] and the key I sent you just before
a1796cd7dfd3106f…dfd3106f…2022-07-11 22:52:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, Norway - peers: 68 - last probed: 31m ago
8312b186dcbf3020…dcbf3020…2022-07-21 00:24:24 <awt> crtdaydreams: my logs: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/logs/current
6adbc717a1796cd7…a1796cd7…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=744612, v=88888, France - peers: 68 - last probed: 30m ago
8021051a8312b186…8312b186…2022-07-21 00:25:28 <awt> [1.146.35.61:7778 crtdaydreams] <- BROADCAST crtdaydreams: my logs:
b5999211769dd700…769dd700…2022-07-21 00:30:55 <crtdaydreams> awt: it shouldn't matter, only one IP should be needed as the AT *should* be updated when you send any message to me
19fc91776adbc717…6adbc717…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, Canada - peers: 66 - last probed: 30m ago
a2b5340cfa98dadb…fa98dadb…2022-07-21 00:30:09 <awt> yeah: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-17#1010108
bbaad66db5999211…b5999211…2022-07-21 00:33:55 <crtdaydreams> odd that, I was able to peer w/ asciilifeform, jonsykkel and signpost with only 1 ip?
9e007c7219fc9177…19fc9177…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, Romania - peers: 53 - last probed: 30m ago
c649176e9419892d…cd5ab740…2022-07-20 19:57:46 <awt> Currently trying to figure out in what order python's socket.inet_aton() puts address bytes. Same as in_addr in C, but what order that would be is not clear.
59dccce0a2b5340c…b7d8ac36…2022-07-21 00:30:11 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 12:11:25 awt[asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams: add this to your AT: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=M8it
65d3eb9a92158350…92158350…2022-07-21 00:31:41 <awt> you need to add my address first, because there's no way to know what port you'll be listening on
d5fe1d9c9e007c72…9e007c72…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 44 - last probed: 30m ago
46b9aff4c649176e…9419892d…2022-07-20 19:58:12 <asciilifeform> awt: the internal machine representation aint part of pest spec (naturally will differ b/w platforms)
25a0ad3f65d3eb9a…65d3eb9a…2022-07-21 00:32:18 <awt> My station is not behind a NAT, so I can control the port used for outgoing messages
b14806bbd5fe1d9c…d5fe1d9c…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 39 - last probed: 32m ago
048c041d46b9aff4…c649176e…2022-07-20 19:59:03 <awt> asciilifeform: sure but would be nice to use python's built-in func for converting an address to bytes if possible.
b9504ebef5576d75…c0e72e16…2022-07-21 00:35:09 <awt> one of the above could clear things up by pasting your line from their AT
418f46bfb14806bb…b14806bb…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=744343, v=99999, United States - peers: 34 - last probed: 30m ago
c8c5c12a048c041d…46b9aff4…2022-07-20 19:59:09 <asciilifeform> addr format is specified for address cast and prod
54617a31418f46bf…418f46bf…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 32 - last probed: 30m ago
6d43c15054617a31…54617a31…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=312191, v=99999, United States - peers: 26 - last probed: 30m ago
d8934c2c91ba641a…91ba641a…2022-07-21 03:09:02 <crtdaydreams> I was under the impression that the random port assigned at runtime that messages are sent from have no affect on the destination as long as the destination port (and ip ofc) is known.
fcbd38c76d43c150…6d43c150…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=744609, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 24 - last probed: 30m ago
03e8febad8934c2c…c6eb1187…2022-07-21 03:09:36 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: it doesn't unless yer behind a nat, and too lazy to make a fwd rule and then need to tell folx the port
dfb126efd8934c2c…d8934c2c…2022-07-21 03:12:04 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: dun look like you're showing up in logotron
87bd0866fcbd38c7…fcbd38c7…2022-07-11 22:52:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 30m ago
36e2793f03e8feba…03e8feba…2022-07-21 03:10:07 <asciilifeform> ( this'll abolish that headache, but not implemented yet )
a0339aaadfb126ef…36e2793f…2022-07-21 03:13:08 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: if yer looking at mine, there's a (not yet explained) lag on occasion
ad70d83d87bd0866…87bd0866…2022-07-11 22:52:42 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=743581, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 15 - last probed: 29m ago
ae0982acd74cd47a…d74cd47a…2022-07-21 03:19:26 <crtdaydreams> is there a particular name for this, I'd like to read more into exactly what is happening
1c2ec1c9ad70d83d…ad70d83d…2022-07-11 22:52:42 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=744612, v=99999, United States - peers: 4 - last probed: 30m ago
6fb3e3d2ae0982ac…ae0982ac…2022-07-21 04:38:46 <crtdaydreams> signpost: eck, miscommunication, I was thinking of nat
95846ba53a9b6204…0dcbed17…2022-07-21 04:22:10 <signpost> crtdaydreams: load up blatta in a profiler and look at what it's spending time on, if you want to investigate sources of lag.
1c87ff306fb3e3d2…3a9b6204…2022-07-21 17:06:19 <awt> Looks like soon there may be a ferry from CR to ES.
1e95ae996fb3e3d2…6fb3e3d2…2022-07-24 08:51:42 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-21#1111916 << yeha, noticed that when it used up the last of my internet the next day lol
a469438f95846ba5…95846ba5…2022-07-21 04:22:42 <signpost> I'd guess that since it's single-threaded getting a bunch of GETDATA from one or more peers might be one cause.
c6d5c3941c87ff30…1c87ff30…2022-07-21 17:06:51 <awt> https://twitter.com/SLVNewsEnglish/status/1549812775878262788
508d1ee01e95ae99…59dccce0…2022-07-24 08:51:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-21 thimbronion: gregorynyssa: it should but there's a lot of GETDATA spam from crtdaydream's smalpest client
1c8a34c01e95ae99…1e95ae99…2022-07-24 08:52:24 <crtdaydreams> notsure what the go is with that, It's dropping multiple getdata reqs almost every 10 seconds
223134ce9bae3292…4087ac63…2022-07-11 23:41:13 <awt> whaack: for some reason bots seem often to be behind.
e83615e7dfd24faa…5c466a2a…2022-07-21 18:58:56 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Could not connect!), h=745914, v=99999, United States - peers: 311 - last probed: 1m ago
e9c3badee83615e7…e83615e7…2022-07-21 18:58:56 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 104 - last probed: 2m ago
fd3542eb8f3be71f…8f3be71f…2022-07-24 11:46:01 <crtdaydreams> break is w/ phf, which can't be fixed until he's successfully implemented multipeering
2059dfdce9c3bade…e9c3bade…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, Norway - peers: 76 - last probed: 3m ago
a2d1f07efd3542eb…fd3542eb…2022-07-24 11:46:43 <crtdaydreams> will simply %unpeer until then and we can rekey at a latter date
9cd138e47436b911…9e24ac2d…2022-07-11 23:41:29 <awt> whaack: for some reason pestbot is usually up to date
c4d7956e2059dfdc…2059dfdc…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, Canada - peers: 72 - last probed: 2m ago
0bab00fea2d1f07e…a2d1f07e…2022-07-24 11:52:24 <crtdaydreams> apologies for the sheer volume of getdata spam emitted from my station, hopefully not tanked anyone elses bandwidth
400814a69cd138e4…9cd138e4…2022-07-11 23:42:57 <awt> Something about being connected to only one other station. Not sure what's going on though.
d4b55eeac4d7956e…c4d7956e…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=745924, v=88888, France - peers: 58 - last probed: 2m ago
27d00688d4b55eea…d4b55eea…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=745924, v=70001, United States - peers: 50 - last probed: 2m ago
0757349361160557…61160557…2022-07-24 12:11:59 <crtdaydreams> ye, last mo. had a visitor that used 20gig in a week
6d4221355b0a8f7d…5b0a8f7d…2022-07-11 23:48:20 <shinohai> (Mine only connected to me but lately have noticed a bit of delay)
a0cf9eb527d00688…27d00688…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 39 - last probed: 4m ago
4c9e21cc07573493…07573493…2022-07-24 12:12:56 <crtdaydreams> so was martian event, unlikely will have riperoni again anytime soon
5248958fa0cf9eb5…a0cf9eb5…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=745840, v=99999, Romania - peers: 29 - last probed: 2m ago
e6a4156ee47fb44e…e47fb44e…2022-07-11 23:50:51 <awt> In any case, the current set of bots we have don't really care about history. The order buffer for them is really just an annoyance.
4d520a5f5248958f…5248958f…2022-07-21 18:58:57 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 22 - last probed: 2m ago
f739dc9023e0627f…23e0627f…2022-07-24 12:14:03 <crtdaydreams> most damage wintoddlers will cause is BSOD on their own system
5c3460a4e6a4156e…e6a4156e…2022-07-11 23:58:43 <awt> for bots, setting order_buffer_check_seconds and order_buffer_expiration_seconds to like 10 should speed things up quite a bit.
f4158bac4d520a5f…4d520a5f…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=745770, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 21 - last probed: 2m ago
d1e21d83f4158bac…f4158bac…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 17 - last probed: 1m ago
f55cd2dabb87820b…bb87820b…2022-07-26 03:35:26 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010637 << when mentioned earlier, flamed
e7e4d776d1e21d83…d1e21d83…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 16 - last probed: 2m ago
12e13559f55cd2da…0c4f7567…2022-07-26 03:35:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 22:29:37 phf[asciilifeform]: why not torrent
f348a5e7e7e4d776…e7e4d776…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 2m ago
b43f183412e13559…12e13559…2022-07-26 03:35:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
cb9e572373d00d98…73d00d98…2022-07-26 10:40:41 <crtdaydreams> $ emerge --update --newuse --deep @world
5ace82f7f348a5e7…f348a5e7…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=745924, v=99999, United States - peers: 2 - last probed: 2m ago
9516a483b43f1834…b43f1834…2022-07-26 03:35:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 signpost: time to stop trying to satisfy your urges by making noise, and read *deeply* the pest spec, all of loper-os, and come back with questions or not at all.
a8d18f42cb9e5723…cb9e5723…2022-07-26 10:43:56 crtdaydreams now fully understands wai asciilifeform et al despise this updating nonsense, e.g. gcc
4a21a2d25ace82f7…5ace82f7…2022-07-21 18:58:58 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=395601, v=99999, United States - peers: None - last probed: 2m ago
619ad2859516a483…79b90d70…2022-07-26 04:20:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010638 << imho could make sense to have a lubytron where can ask >1 peer for $frag; but not l2+ (cuz ruinously, 'geometrically' expensive, and the traffic will be pure noise to all but the 1 intended recipient)
d8bc9fc0a8d18f42…a8d18f42…2022-07-26 10:59:58 <crtdaydreams> phf: what are you using for crypto might I ask? did you write your own impl. of serpent or are you using ironclad? or some other lib unbeknownst to me
6bca0bd0619ad285…9516a483…2022-07-26 04:20:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 22:31:56 phf[asciilifeform]: i only briefly looked into relationship between fountain codes and torrent protocol, and not knowing either don't have much to add to conversation yet. my initial guess was that one can probably significantly simplify torrent protocol, when knowing topology of trusted count
c5d8356dd8bc9fc0…d8bc9fc0…2022-07-26 11:01:32 <crtdaydreams> it's evident that historically ironclad "isn't all there" in some parts, but I can't comment in depth, haven't __read__ it yet
a18d3d72b581df9a…4a21a2d2…2022-07-21 19:00:04 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7252; TRB-Compatible: 31; TRB: 15
7f98943a6bca0bd0…619ad285…2022-07-26 04:22:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-25#1010411 << bt proper is not only a shitsoup of oddball crapola (incl. tcp), but is rather the antithesis of pest, i.e. scheme for swarm of unauthenticated anons ( which, observe, easily 'poisoned' in various ways , the copyrasts maintain entire shops to do this )
c79debc8c5d8356d…a7c8066c…2022-07-26 14:45:00 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010431 << this isn't the command that gets you into trouble, all it does is rebuilds your packages based on config changes, but it still uses your current local repo (and leaves it intact). it's `emerge --sync`, which updates your repo to the latest upstream copy, that can clobber yo
6d80f85ca18d3d72…a18d3d72…2022-07-21 19:00:05 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 11; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Canada: 2; Singapore: 2; Brazil: 1; Australia: 1; Italy: 1; France: 1; Sweden: 1; Netherlands: 1; United Kingdom: 1; Cyprus: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
e41e62bc7f98943a…04f54e19…2022-07-26 04:22:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 23:35:40 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010637 << when mentioned earlier, flamed
96661b1dc79debc8…e41e62bc…2022-07-26 14:42:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-26 06:40:55 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: $ emerge --update --newuse --deep @world
2d00a466260991cf…260991cf…2022-08-02 08:14:39 <crtdaydreams> adlai: I hope this doesn't mean you're going to try writing seppukuware
847f14bb6d80f85c…6d80f85c…2022-07-21 19:00:05 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 9; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
71acf44ae41e62bc…6bca0bd0…2022-07-26 04:22:50 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 22:29:37 phf[asciilifeform]: why not torrent
40b79f8e96661b1d…c79debc8…2022-07-26 14:46:03 <billymg> i also always use the --ask flag (muscle memory for me is `emerge -av` regardless of what i'm doing next with the command)
4261f01d2d00a466…782efe46…2022-08-24 13:50:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011378 << to date asciilifeform not impressed with any of the supposedly 'sane' 'deplatformed folx' (wai were 'platformed' to start with?)
b8efd94671acf44a…71acf44a…2022-07-26 04:22:50 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
6ebd201640b79f8e…e887e6c8…2022-07-26 14:43:32 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform has seen over9000 times that even the above bombs, where sufficiently sad state that the thing has nfi in which order to rebuild
2d3093e25a8a6e69…5a8a6e69…2022-08-03 03:53:53 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-02#1010990 << in .au first settlers found this big heart shaped plant, lotsa surface area... "hmm good bum wipes." needles to say, prolly shat bricks. plant in q is "Gympie-Gympie"
b69654744261f01d…797344ff…2022-08-24 13:51:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:06:25 signpost: "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies.
93bdbe49b8efd946…b8efd946…2022-07-26 04:22:50 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 signpost: time to stop trying to satisfy your urges by making noise, and read *deeply* the pest spec, all of loper-os, and come back with questions or not at all.
2889e5746ebd2016…40b79f8e…2022-07-26 14:47:50 <billymg> yeah, i don't run either on say, a 'dulap' gentoo
44212efc2d3093e2…be499f7e…2022-08-03 03:54:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-02 21:23:58 signpost: imagines the first guy who invented wiping his ass.
fba4833db6965474…e39f60fb…2022-08-24 13:52:54 <PeterL> at this point we can say pest has succesfully replaced Freenode
31ad519893bdbe49…7f98943a…2022-07-26 04:24:16 <asciilifeform> the abstract 'bt-like' idea of 'cut $warez into packets where order of arrival not matters' has obv merit
1cd760dc2889e574…2889e574…2022-07-26 14:49:39 <billymg> also why i always use the --ask flag, so i can read through what it's about to do before letting it start
3031cb079a8fd9e1…e708c481…2022-08-04 13:28:03 <shinohai> GM and here is the funniest goddamned thing you will read on Shithub all year: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/20273#discussioncomment-3320989
6fa867b09a8fd9e1…9a8fd9e1…2022-08-07 05:34:59 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011008 << like github itself
34b5695131ad5198…31ad5198…2022-07-26 04:24:41 <asciilifeform> but oughta be done, if in pest, pestronically. imho not mega-revelation.
881ed3971cd760dc…1cd760dc…2022-07-26 14:50:56 <billymg> but even on dulap, i don't see how the --update --deep @world would be "fatal" (though not tried)
4587c8d06fa867b0…6fa867b0…2022-08-07 05:35:17 crtdaydreams shoulda put it down as an archive.is link but whatevs
b4caf54b6fa867b0…690ef4ec…2022-08-07 05:35:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-04 10:35:13 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011007 << there are tbf all kinds of funny things on github https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/413#issuecomment-1186918603
8e9e7ac734b56951…34b56951…2022-07-26 04:25:08 <asciilifeform> there's afaik very little to be learned from ye olde bt re precisely how.
3972705f881ed397…881ed397…2022-07-26 14:51:30 <billymg> since it doesn't clobber your local repo you still have all your packages and can revert the problem builds
f31e290b4587c8d0…4587c8d0…2022-08-07 05:37:04 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011024 << you gonna write a biography? :P
d26afbe18e9e7ac7…8e9e7ac7…2022-07-26 04:26:28 <asciilifeform> a key idea of pest, in asciilifeform's lights, is 'nuffin to the stranger', which is rather contrary to traditional mechanics of p2p warez nets.
fa3f037e3972705f…a469438f…2022-07-26 14:59:37 <signpost> phf: "online codes" is one of the kademlia d00d's work, seems a good fit to me.
fa69d118f31e290b…b4caf54b…2022-08-07 05:37:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 12:28:24 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-06#1113069 << you need books on marine chronometers, the great ships and the lesser known wwii aerial battles. also books on lathe work, and biographies of men you respect despite their flaws.
88d5ce69f31e290b…f31e290b…2022-08-07 05:40:00 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011060 << the joys of flowcharts
1ae46751d26afbe1…d26afbe1…2022-07-26 04:26:48 <asciilifeform> ( in the latter, typically one ~wants~ to be introduced into direct connections w/ randos )
85591544fa3f037e…fa3f037e…2022-07-26 15:04:40 <signpost> modeling after torrent, but on udp, gonna have to resurrect detection and retransmission of loss, whereas an erasure code efficiently tolerates loss.
c663ec1d88d5ce69…fa69d118…2022-08-07 05:40:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 18:13:23 jonsykkel: http://zzz.st/up/iT8fbjF8/giraf.png
bacd9a0188d5ce69…88d5ce69…2022-08-12 21:16:36 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-12#1011159 << Reminds me of a certain black mirror episode lol
f8d55a461ae46751…1ae46751…2022-07-26 04:28:35 <asciilifeform> pest designed primarily for unddosable, unspoofable (and these arguably logically entwined) comms; errything else is distantly secondary, per asciilifeform's pov
d82feca685591544…85591544…2022-07-26 15:06:29 signpost has kept the notion of eventually being on radio in mind, and one can imagine a station that broadcasts a particular payload with zero messages received from those listening. if one can estimate the lossiness of the channel, can properly tune OC such that there's strong assurance the receiver can reconstruct.
5217f43bc663ec1d…a9d1d94a…2022-08-07 15:11:13 <awt> Something I would like to write up if someone else doesn't get to it first is a pest thread model along the lines of this document: https://github.com/JWWeatherman/bitcoin_security_threat_model
0443182ac663ec1d…6d5822de…2022-08-07 16:09:02 <phf> doing kahn sort on packets lays them out somewhat reasonably. of course my malformed packets without netchain are all kinds of messed up
211111f7bacd9a01…b1e5df42…2022-08-12 21:16:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-12 12:20:25 awt: https://www.eetimes.com/reverse-engineering-insect-brains-to-make-robots/
2c805e0cf8d55a46…f8d55a46…2022-07-26 04:29:27 <asciilifeform> if in given application these objectives aint of interest, is best to use some other, traditional protocol, 0 reason to bother with the gymnastics of pest
319eef30d82feca6…d82feca6…2022-07-26 15:08:26 <signpost> bbl, will hack at the lisp encoder today. I'll aim to produce an item that can fart an encoded file stream at a list of IPs and ports, either from disk or as received from somebody else.
72fc7d3b0443182a…0443182a…2022-08-07 16:15:22 <phf> perhaps if i could figure out some kind of “stable” topological sort.. graph construction preserves the original order of arrival, but then kahn slings things around. i probably need to make it stable anyway, because there's going to be new, blind chains from people who “hello” for the first time, without selfchain
89aa8816211111f7…a9d805ee…2022-08-12 23:50:03 <billymg> asciilifeform: anything to look out for when selecting cat6 cables? i need to run a 250ft cable through an underground pvc conduit
e4bc47cb211111f7…3368b71a…2022-08-13 14:36:32 <phf> awt: so i kind of fouled the test, but ostensibly if i just come up from non operation, and start sending noise packets, i should get back a prod within some frequency?
2784910c0f8238ec…0f8238ec…2022-08-13 22:19:20 <crtdaydreams> shinohai you've forked for some reason, the four posts north of "fuck me like the C programming language" don't show up on bitdash.io either.
e887e6c82c805e0c…2c805e0c…2022-07-26 04:31:22 <asciilifeform> ... which is ~not~ to say that 'grab 'spider man xviii' from phriend' via pest aint a possible application. simply, any addition to the protocol oughta not lose sight of 'pest aint principally for grabbing spider man xviii 50% faster'.
90997ce8319eef30…319eef30…2022-07-26 16:27:00 <signpost> unrelatedly, just had to point out an air-bubble to the nurse giving me allergy shots, wtf.
b3645f0872fc7d3b…72fc7d3b…2022-08-07 16:15:22 <phf> or netchain. those messages should stay “in the same place” in the topological sort as in the original order of arrival sequence
ded2542ee4bc47cb…e4bc47cb…2022-08-13 14:39:15 <phf> now that i sent a message i should definitely get a prod packet?
13ecc8c0b3645f08…b3645f08…2022-08-07 16:18:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-07#1011082 << all biographies worth reading have already been written, because they don't make men worth writing about anymore
af653f96ded2542e…ded2542e…2022-08-13 14:43:24 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-12#1113115 << how did it go, if your girl is trained to maintain your infrastructure while you're laid out, you're scum and your girl is useless? :}
317b46ee85c926ec…85c926ec…2022-08-13 22:28:19 <crtdaydreams> er was a getdata, I'm not sure what's happened here
bd676380167d6442…167d6442…2022-07-26 17:08:52 <billymg> signpost: what was her reaction when you pointed it out?
b4ab44ed13ecc8c0…c663ec1d…2022-08-07 16:18:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-07 01:37:25 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011024 << you gonna write a biography? :P
e9b84d72af653f96…211111f7…2022-08-13 14:43:48 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-12 asciilifeform: apologizes to folx on pestnet for delay in replies; asciilifeform not uncrated pestron yet, on acct of several simultaenous (albeit uninteresting to audience) clusterfucks
f5794754317b46ee…317b46ee…2022-08-13 22:30:39 <crtdaydreams> herm, might've missed the message prior to "GM and here is the funniest..."
b4aadd76bd676380…90997ce8…2022-07-26 17:09:28 <signpost> sputtered some crap about getting close to the end of the vials.
8cb3aa00b4ab44ed…13ecc8c0…2022-08-07 16:33:40 <phf> neat thing about auxiliary graph is that it necessarily has nodes for missing packets, one can periodically getdata for empty nodes, until graph is complete
782efe46f5794754…59256a6a…2022-08-24 13:48:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011362 << piece of soft aint aboutta stave off ragnarok, noose at 11
fcce8e278cb3aa00…8cb3aa00…2022-08-09 14:41:40 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-06-14#1106932 << what's the impression after however long it's been couple of months. also did you ever figure out custom os build, or gave up on that?
cd9d72083bae76c7…fe1ec9a2…2022-08-13 14:44:00 <awt> phf: I don't see any prod messages from you in my log
797344ff782efe46…387248b9…2022-08-24 13:49:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 17:12:42 signpost: doesn't see *any* human who can prevent that crash. not presidents, not anyone assembled here.
8c264c67c60bc6b4…b4aadd76…2022-07-26 17:30:00 <signpost> US inmates were well into "you pretend to pay us and we'll pretend to work" before the covid inflation.
3c9b336afcce8e27…b4ab44ed…2022-08-09 14:42:02 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 signpost: in other fetishes, mudila phone now works. had to get a new sim card and factory reset.
5b72e4d2cd9d7208…3bae76c7…2022-08-13 14:44:29 <phf> awt: oh i have to send one, before you send me one back? i haven't read the spec, i'm just running my mouth here
58953433cd9d7208…cd9d7208…2022-08-13 14:46:23 <awt> But yes, if you send a prod you should get an immediate reply prod
c346700d885147d8…885147d8…2022-08-13 22:39:19 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPCq1o4yvow
7beecfed3c9b336a…b07ce40b…2022-08-09 17:56:00 <signpost> phf: it feels a little cheap, plastic squeaks and flexes a bit.
dbc9c8263c9b336a…fcce8e27…2022-08-10 19:05:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-10#1113093 << wb, but why not visit pest!
92a89be05b72e4d2…fa58a91c…2022-08-13 14:47:18 <awt> Oh I see. If you just come up, you need to send a prod to get one. Blatta can be set to send prods periodially, but the default right now is just to blast them out on launch.
fa58a91c58953433…58953433…2022-08-13 14:46:23 <awt> No further prods are required to be sent past the reply afaict
fcca89d07beecfed…7beecfed…2022-08-09 17:56:36 <signpost> I haven't tried to build my own OS image for it yet. last I was looking into it you could only run custom builds in their simulator due to a dependency on some closed binturd for the eink display.
29f08198dbc9c826…3c9b336a…2022-08-10 19:05:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-10 asciilifeform: sees n days of log, goes into 'whythefuq even bothered to log in' dfa state
550451a092a89be0…01b8c46b…2022-08-13 15:04:34 <phf> asciilifeform: your pest address encoding is funny, because port is le and ip address is accidentally be
3d7a29ecad4459b1…ad4459b1…2022-08-13 22:43:13 crtdaydreams had not been made aware of his passing until now, fond of many long nights hacking away to his music
7914fc8a29f08198…8cae788e…2022-08-10 19:24:44 <signpost> yeah I hit my dose limit on amphetamine chatter and turned off IRC.
2c0a5fde550451a0…550451a0…2022-08-13 15:06:30 <phf> i say accidentally because you're just taking dot-decimal label and laying it out in memory, but if you were to convert ip address to number first and then write it to array as big endian you'd get the same layout
fee6f54338ae0167…b9975ba6…2022-07-26 20:22:18 <whaack> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010447 <-- holy shit, thank god you checked
a950ad74279cfabb…279cfabb…2022-08-09 17:57:55 <signpost> I guess the idea re: customization is you beg your changes into their official build via shithub, which isn't interesting.
085b197f7914fc8a…7914fc8a…2022-08-10 19:25:22 <signpost> pest's stable enough and folks are welcome to join if they can find a single person willing to peer.
6d1d57e72c0a5fde…2c0a5fde…2022-08-13 15:08:11 <phf> obviously if you were writing both ip and port as le, you'd get 57 5 4 3 2 1
1aac206ed44b2fdd…d44b2fdd…2022-08-22 20:04:03 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011286 << seems to forget that needs alternate comms for initial key exch
4dca75eefee6f543…96661b1d…2022-07-26 20:22:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-26 12:27:13 signpost: unrelatedly, just had to point out an air-bubble to the nurse giving me allergy shots, wtf.
8cae788ea950ad74…a950ad74…2022-08-09 17:59:32 signpost currently focused on getting a lisp version out of my online-codes impl.
6ab0e996085b197f…f35b0969…2022-08-10 20:45:41 <awt> The 9973 release is going to be a little weird because of the version checking bug in all versions down to 9974. In 9974 and up messages with a version < 0xFC are discarded.
9024dce61aac206e…96655b90…2022-08-22 20:04:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 15:21:08 PeterL: I wonder, if he turned off duplapnet, how many there would show up here?
500f37d21aac206e…02531116…2022-12-08 16:46:55 <lobbes> heya signpost, asciilifeform! Looks like my station is still processing message history (seeing replays from feb 2022 atm). I'm using blatta with the pure python serpent versus mcrypt, so I think that is adding to my lag. Gonna let it chug for a few hours then hopefully I'll be caught up
949df2104dca75ee…fee6f543…2022-07-26 20:23:29 <whaack> signpost: do you struggle with congestion? After moving to CR and reading something BingoBoingo posted a while back called "Shut Your Mouth and Save Your Life" I very rarely have any allergies that last for a prolonged amount of time
11425ef88cae788e…5217f43b…2022-08-10 18:28:40 <awt> Gonna try and relase 9973 today. Will include Prod support but no AddressCast.
cb7d00c19024dce6…60515516…2022-08-22 20:05:46 <phf> crtdaydreams, i kind of think issues like that ought to be discovered, rather than reasoned. or rather there's limit to reasoning, unless of course it's the goal in itself.
38838add3199754a…3199754a…2022-08-22 20:07:11 <crtdaydreams> You mean an in-the-field instance of someone actually butting up against an issue where can't actually exchange pest keys.
404e68ac949df210…949df210…2022-07-26 20:23:56 <whaack> (exception being if i pet a cat and touch my face etc.)
f35b096911425ef8…11425ef8…2022-08-10 18:29:39 <awt> Also, handle must now be supplied on the command line. This will allow stations to run and sync without a client connected.
a8d2b272ae1fb28f…ae1fb28f…2022-08-10 20:48:20 <awt> Since 9973 will set the pest version to 0xFA, No one on 9974 or higher will see messages from stations running 9973. You can of course manually set the pest version to whatever you want in message.py.
3d04d45938838add…38838add…2022-08-22 20:07:54 <crtdaydreams> Point was, in that instance of dulapnet shutting down, how many would reach out to ascii for a peering key over email?
e1ed5525404e68ac…404e68ac…2022-07-26 20:25:47 <whaack> Also, I have never used this exercise yet, but i imagine it would help : close right nostril with a finger, breath in 8s through left nostril, close left nostril open right nostril, exhale through right nostril 10s then inhale through right nostril 8s, bounce back and fourth
2a96cdb9a8d2b272…dbc9c826…2022-08-10 20:55:06 <phf> that seems like it'll result in a period of “halp my messages don't go through!!!1”
cf333c008d3c1592…8d3c1592…2022-08-14 17:38:59 <awt> If anyone is looking for a python project, there several control commands that have yet to be implemented in blatta: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=4003#252-control-commands
ee577a32e1ed5525…e1ed5525…2022-07-26 20:26:32 <whaack> theory is basically congestion causes a negative feedback loop where your sinuses are clogged, so you breath through your mouth, so then the air does not filter/clear your sinuses, so you breath through your mouth even more,
08edfcb4cf333c00…cf333c00…2022-08-14 17:40:17 <awt> I think they would be easier to tackler and test than addidng new message types. I'm probably doing AddressCast next, fwiw.
171c4e72e73cf197…e73cf197…2022-08-22 20:08:59 <crtdaydreams> But once again, that remains in the scope of theory.
844e9cc5ee577a32…8c264c67…2022-07-26 20:39:21 <signpost> makes sense, but I breathe through nose. even when I had worse allergies I was using a neti pot and antihistamine enough to keep my nose usable.
610c2e15f4d13fc8…2a96cdb9…2022-08-10 20:57:57 <phf> leave the version as is, and bump it once bulk of people are running on a client that doesn't have a broken version checker
65daf8bef4d13fc8…be4be99c…2022-08-24 14:34:59 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: most beings an engineer produce useful things only as an unintentional / coincidental byproduct of an internal cycle of self-assuaging that's broadly unrelated to anything else.
d7939ab608edfcb4…08edfcb4…2022-08-15 01:21:11 <awt> I love having a line with horrible typos sitting at the end of the log forever.
e4f2d8f3171c4e72…3fd54d76…2022-08-22 20:10:17 <phf> crtdaydreams, yeah that's my point about pragmatic. we can build the fort first and then figure out how to attach rope ladder to it
2812524a844e9cc5…844e9cc5…2022-07-26 20:39:48 <signpost> at this point the shots have had significant effect, so doing even better.
5723cd65ccd5ddcc…e4f2d8f3…2022-08-22 20:10:45 <phf> i don't think email is at all a practical solution
409df0d7ccd5ddcc…ccd5ddcc…2022-08-22 20:11:57 <crtdaydreams> but to address the elephant in the room; is this even the purpose of pest?
3d4e550a2812524a…2812524a…2022-07-26 20:40:07 <signpost> one just has to manage american medical derps like they're household help.
966ad2d1e4a9631f…610c2e15…2022-08-10 20:59:16 <phf> version doesn't reflect capabilities anyway, as per http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-10#1011100 so probably can “nail version field down” once fully compliant with some kind of slice
1c5a1cb0966ad2d1…29f08198…2022-08-10 20:59:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-10 14:29:03 awt: Gonna try and relase 9973 today. Will include Prod support but no AddressCast.
2ac04a4e1f120572…5723cd65…2022-08-22 20:12:24 <phf> but imho there are other problems that are immediately obvious: how do you for example support the "vex usecase", i.e. a casual user that's not going to proactively go through solving the peering problem, and would rather just drop out entirely (or i suppose connect to dulapnet until the very last moment)
d408b9861f120572…1f120572…2022-08-22 20:17:47 <crtdaydreams> I'm not sure to be honest. I just think there's a lot to learn from interacting with you folx, even if I never get to know any of you above a repor level (there's a high bar for entry :P). But hell, I might aswell just read logs. It's quite evident by now that my contributions are quite limited, perhaps I would be in my be
7b4f36d81c5a1cb0…966ad2d1…2022-08-10 21:01:06 <phf> and to further make this point, probably best to lean in the direction of network stability, over compliance, at this stage of pest development
e77639f82ac04a4e…2ac04a4e…2022-08-22 20:13:37 <phf> crtdaydreams, i evoke, ye old from cause rather than to purposes. and that's kind of the point of this whole thread, how are /you/ planning on using pest?
eb850c627b4f36d8…e4a9631f…2022-08-10 21:02:21 <awt> Ok disregard above re: versions. I'll just release 9973 with pest version 0xFC (what it's currently at).
ea96406f7c4660e1…ea0e8500…2022-08-15 21:06:00 <PeterL> signpost: http://trinque.org/src/ocpy/ocpy_wip_genesis_signpost.vpatch.signpost.sig gives me a 404?
15d33b58e77639f8…e77639f8…2022-08-22 20:14:54 <phf> i want vex rants to be part of pestnet, unrelated to abstract questions of "is it a public forum", so maybe i build a web interface that i brought up some time ago, so that the guy can connect, post his rasta videos and such
93d0ba8da98479a0…e3639579…2022-08-22 20:24:56 <billymg> phf: tbf, activity on #a has also been at a minimum during the same time period
f3e0d0f7a98479a0…a98479a0…2022-08-22 20:28:59 <crtdaydreams> phf: Is it inherently a p2p problem? i.e. you don't allow randoms to dc you on IRC, part of that is nettiquite and part of that is "idfk who you even are?" how can that be bridged on a platform that in essence, is ~strictly~ that?
bece1670eb850c62…eb850c62…2022-08-10 21:09:03 <awt> For anyone wondering why to update to 9973, btw, the new functionality is basically that if you move and get covid'd, or otherwise go offline for a while, when you get back on, you'll automatically be brought up to date on missed messages.
83ccc0ae15d33b58…15d33b58…2022-08-22 20:16:16 <phf> but as it stands, this is the most conversation there's been on pest in two months, so maybe that also ought to be factored into the various considerations: what is even the purpose of pest in general? considering that people with both know how and experience of running pest stations seem to prefer to converse on #a
e3b3513e93d0ba8d…93d0ba8d…2022-08-22 20:25:34 <billymg> and it does seem like a handful of users have switched more or less completely over to #pest
c37d67b6f3e0d0f7…020c567c…2022-08-22 20:31:30 <phf> crtdaydreams, i don't think it is. for one existing protocol doesn't mandate it
b3fe88a8f3e0d0f7…f3e0d0f7…2022-08-22 20:34:23 crtdaydreams has be under this impression since first peered, infact only dc'd ~2 people in the entirety of time in #a and #p and not without permission first
485e968ebece1670…bece1670…2022-08-10 21:09:40 <awt> Without having to receive a Broadcast or DM first.
c4bc6ee5e3b3513e…1df1c41e…2022-08-22 20:22:53 <PeterL> I've pretty much completely moved to #pest, not that I have ever been a very high volume user
4c0d997bc37d67b6…e3b3513e…2022-08-22 20:36:13 <billymg> crtdaydreams: can't speak for others but when a network is this small (dozen or so users) i wouldn't mind peering with just about anyone from #a
085a7ac0b3fe88a8…32b04c55…2022-08-22 20:34:34 <phf> so if you want to hear vex rants peer with webtoilet station or whatever
182a4ce8b3fe88a8…b3fe88a8…2022-08-22 20:35:25 <crtdaydreams> phf: possibly in order before toilet would be multichan support
93238071485e968e…336e5c6e…2022-08-10 22:36:47 <PeterL> signpost: so I had a few moments, was thinking about lubyism/online codes, is http://trinque.org/2022/02/19/online-codes-in-python-wip/ the latest python version of your thing or did you improve upon that?
a65c92b1c4bc6ee5…3227a481…2022-08-22 20:25:41 <awt> For me, the old forum (#bitcon-assets -> #trilema) was of interest as a constant stream of new concepts and revisionist history, fueled largely by trilema and loper-os articles.
9730e08d4c0d997b…4c0d997b…2022-08-22 20:36:37 <billymg> imo anyone here, at this stage, gets credibility points simply for being here (not that those can't then be revoked in the future)
3258c98c182a4ce8…aea6b813…2022-08-22 20:36:11 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011265 << makes sense, ty for the explanation. it seemed to me that someone was reaching for whomever they could hit, and apparently missed even that.
b2a1f9e7182a4ce8…182a4ce8…2022-08-22 20:41:23 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011338 << tru, that and any folks running around with a hate boner would've turned #a into liquidshit long before now
457cdb4b5aa5bff2…c262a838…2022-08-15 21:44:47 <whaack> a nice link for the Costa Rica frequenters / habitans here: https://www.imn.ac.cr/imagenes-sat/IRVISCR.gif <--- constantly updated gif of last 10 or so satellite infared images, spaced ~10 mins apart, played in sequence
020c567ca65c92b1…83ccc0ae…2022-08-22 20:26:51 <phf> billymg, there's a slump, but there's also definitely bifurcation. occassional drive by comment, or a vex stream, or some "hello, i'm still alive" ping will go to either, and necessarily splits the attention
37b7bce89730e08d…c37d67b6…2022-08-22 20:33:02 <phf> not like peering is "friends forever", can as easily unpeer :p
109d85123258c98c…9024dce6…2022-08-22 20:36:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 12:28:44 phf[awt]: the idea that he's some kind of idealogue of putin's regime is laughable, and he makes no sense as a target of assassination attempt
d44ecf3cb2a1f9e7…868b258b…2022-08-22 20:41:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:38:18 phf[awt]: crtdaydreams, sure, but also why. not like you'll have a sudden influx of people dying to have a conversation with us. it'll be the same usual suspects, adlai and vex, and maybe bb and other people who might resurface. i mean "webtoilet, ban X" is 2 lines of code
1ba7d8dbb2a1f9e7…b2a1f9e7…2022-08-25 11:14:12 crtdaydreams will reply in time; meanwhile in other noose; https://web.archive.org/web/20220811220554/https://www.suncorp.com.au/learn-about/banking/microchipping-humans.html
736d96e56bea72fa…915a8d6f…2022-08-16 01:52:45 <signpost> PeterL: I deleted the WIP genesis. latest is linked from the poast, can be found here http://trinque.org/src/ocpy/
17ab7e3b020c567c…a65c92b1…2022-08-22 20:27:49 <awt> And I hoped pestnet could be a place where discussion could continue uncensored. Though really #trilema and #bitcoin-assets was never censored.
32b04c5537b7bce8…37b7bce8…2022-08-22 20:34:06 <phf> but also there's been plenty of conversation on how to potentially establish a toilet station, where all hearsay is artificial, and instead of coming from other stations is actually just web interface or whatever
d64e9731109d8512…085a7ac0…2022-08-22 20:37:50 <phf> crtdaydreams, sure, but also why. not like you'll have a sudden influx of people dying to have a conversation with us. it'll be the same usual suspects, adlai and vex, and maybe bb and other people who might resurface. i mean "webtoilet, ban X" is 2 lines of code
35da33d4d44ecf3c…b85d6361…2022-08-22 20:41:55 signpost can see himself publishing string->IP mappings, warez payloads, blog posts, w/e into same.
204cb5fe1ba7d8db…dddfd85a…2022-08-25 14:08:08 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: a++, get yer finger chopped off rather than simply being robbed
0e4838151ba7d8db…1ba7d8db…2022-08-26 07:45:04 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-23#1113346 << I appreciate you sharing. I'll hold my tounge and avoid making anymore assumptions.
adfc81a5d64e9731…3258c98c…2022-08-22 20:37:58 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011296 << I've definitely been getting my fill of summer. I also get quiet when I'm grunting out a piece of work.
2365da43204cb5fe…fba4833d…2022-08-25 14:22:22 <PeterL> awt: wouldn't "tru logger" just look into the blatta db, sort by date, and dump that into a webpage?
0243790c0e483815…abb56fec…2022-08-26 07:45:35 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-23 gregorynyssa: I still look forward to finishing the rest of the FFA tutorials when mathematics returns to my life. have a nice day, everyone.
708ca25a0e483815…0e483815…2022-08-26 07:58:43 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-24#1011448 << this is analogous to one IRC client for every channel, think of the overhead !11!, also arguably multichan by a single client (and therefore single port) which decreases attack surface considerably at scale, and obfuscates traffic, making traffic analysis far more difficult
1029455b82629cfc…6bea72fa…2022-08-16 15:28:51 <awt> Would be nice to have something in the pest spec for file storage and retrieval
407d93c16c588b23…f247d825…2022-08-22 20:37:58 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011295 << I'm already blocked by the keet.io folks for the unpardonable sin of asking "where is source?" "We can't release yet because reasons, use it anyway it's seekrit!"
fabdfc14adfc81a5…109d8512…2022-08-22 20:38:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 15:46:24 phf[awt]: i suspect there's multiple "whys", it's summer, #a is friendlier to casual banter, pest both protocol and extant implementation necessarily have rough edges, which means interacting with platform is deliberate effort, etc.
a76615292e80f907…35da33d4…2022-08-22 20:44:20 <signpost> yeah, something like that, while references to items outside pestnet remain interesting, which'd be quite a while.
d31184082365da43…204cb5fe…2022-08-25 14:23:49 <asciilifeform> PeterL: would work; only headache is that it marries you to the particular db
91d66e89708ca25a…0243790c…2022-08-26 07:59:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 09:44:44 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011335 << 'multichan' is already there -- erry net is 'channel'
50198c88708ca25a…708ca25a…2022-08-26 08:00:32 <crtdaydreams> keeping peers within dunbar is one thing, but constraining peers and +l2 to the dunbar is another entirely
3e5ca87d5061ce20…085b197f…2022-08-10 23:03:33 <signpost> PeterL: nah, I refactored it a few times since then. lemme poast the latest py version.
3abc6c0c407d93c1…fabdfc14…2022-08-22 20:38:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 15:43:47 awt: The p2p space on Twitter rn is all about keet and nostr.
3445118aa7661529…9730e08d…2022-08-22 21:01:50 <billymg> signpost: valid point. first and foremost i see pest as defensible territory designed to keep out heathens and agent provocateurs
54ee89c7d3118408…fd6116bc…2022-08-25 14:54:21 <billymg> yeah, when going that route i'd much rather tail blatta's db and insert into the logotron's pg db. that way can add an adapter for smalpest that reads from its flatfile db, etc.
5c4e4a78d3118408…b931b541…2022-08-26 05:25:58 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-25#1011598 << pest.lisp is also single threaded, because i just don't want to deal with synchronization issues
2d45afd150198c88…50198c88…2022-08-26 08:03:50 <crtdaydreams> if wanted to create pestnet for users of blatta, to discuss testing and working on blatta, i.e. #blatta, at this moment would need to cp blatta, modify, re-key, open new port, port forward, etc.
7b0418273abc6c0c…adfc81a5…2022-08-22 20:38:40 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011298 << there's some uninspected "democracy decides what is true" in here, seems like.
a2aaf6423445118a…d44ecf3c…2022-08-22 20:58:38 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-17 asciilifeform: the pill is to have own territory, and keep'em out.
caea7bf554ee89c7…54ee89c7…2022-08-25 14:55:40 <billymg> and then you're free to blow away your pest db if you need to for debugging or because you feel like it
abb56fec5c4e4a78…2eb06c8a…2022-08-26 05:26:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-25 17:55:56 awt: Yes threading would be good. I tried it initially, but couldn't untangle db locking issues.
68f3f74f2d45afd1…2d45afd1…2022-08-26 08:12:33 <crtdaydreams> perhaps this is a misconception arising because of the current divide between station and client, if so, please feel free to clarify
6825f6e008ea6ac1…08ea6ac1…2022-08-10 23:08:43 <awt> jonsykkel: I got a weird PROD packet from you with the flag set to: PROD flag: 28019
868b258b7b041827…3abc6c0c…2022-08-22 20:39:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:01:51 billymg: imo this is a valuable insight. can think of pest like any social network, where popularity is determined by the quality (or at least "draw") of the content ("where the action is"). online forums don't come and go because of their underlying technology or UX
2d794538a2aaf642…3445118a…2022-08-22 21:05:16 <billymg> but i was also thinking about your insight re: the technology of "aiming the meatsacks" at $target and how that might be achieved
559a2915caea7bf5…2365da43…2022-08-25 14:51:29 <PeterL> yeah, I guess just looking into the blatta db misses all the old stuff from the IRC channels
b07e5f0d68f3f74f…68f3f74f…2022-08-26 08:33:54 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011614 << In a pest the process is a corrospondence (private msg) with each of those individuals then above
edb387dd707fe000…dd30e937…2022-08-18 18:36:31 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7148; TRB-Compatible: 21; TRB: 14
2f91af9c868b258b…7b041827…2022-08-22 20:40:05 <signpost> as far as immediate, practical usefulness goes, decentralized warez "site" remains top of my list for pestnet applications.
f714e8632d794538…2d794538…2022-08-22 21:07:04 <billymg> in my head it goes vaguely something like: 1) promote pest, 2) critical mass of interesting discussion occurs on #pest (viewable in logs www), 3) heathens load up pestlogs.com while taking morning shit rather than twitter/4chan/andrewtateyoutube, 4) profit
153ef3efb07e5f0d…91d66e89…2022-08-26 08:34:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 04:26:32 jonsykkel: a irc channel has secret flag to distinguish between those 2 use cases
0bd4c024b07e5f0d…b07e5f0d…2022-08-26 08:34:39 <crtdaydreams> Mebbe I've misconstrued the term "Multichan" with "Multinet"
aa806d5cedb387dd…edb387dd…2022-08-18 18:36:31 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 7; Romania: 3; Germany: 3; Singapore: 2; Australia: 1; Portugal: 1; France: 1; Slovenia: 1; Netherlands: 1; Cyprus: 1;
a1b8d9b5f714e863…a7661529…2022-08-22 21:05:14 <signpost> just pausing over here to think through what I want to say about it.
de928b814d5b75a9…d3118408…2022-08-25 15:33:56 <asciilifeform> PeterL: there's no reason one couldn't retrofill that db w/ the irc histories
b2e5fb07153ef3ef…153ef3ef…2022-08-26 08:34:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 04:04:19 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: if wanted to create pestnet for users of blatta, to discuss testing and working on blatta, i.e. #blatta, at this moment would need to cp blatta, modify, re-key, open new port, port forward, etc.
071e01700bd4c024…0bd4c024…2022-08-26 08:34:51 <crtdaydreams> It seems that could be the source of confusion here.
804a575aaa806d5c…aa806d5c…2022-08-18 18:36:31 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
b85d636172ae9a12…2f91af9c…2022-08-22 20:41:10 <signpost> and I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what it means to have structured messages within a shared, decentralized log.
46d2db86a1b8d9b5…a1b8d9b5…2022-08-22 21:06:38 <signpost> we're headed for a world where structure is collapsing, food scarcer, etc., right?
7263f786071e0170…071e0170…2022-08-26 08:36:41 crtdaydreams refers to the capacity to have one pestron handle multiple pestnets
257f111d804a575a…707fe000…2022-08-18 18:42:52 <billymg> hrm, guess i'm counting TRB-Compatible differently here (including actual TRB). on the bitdash chart labeled [TRB and Traditional Nodes][http://bitdash.io/] (scroll down) it shows that TRB now outnumbers out TRB-Compat. nodes for the first
4bbd25447263f786…7263f786…2022-08-26 08:39:01 <crtdaydreams> either that or blatta, smalpest et al already support management of multiple nets and I've missed that feature entirely
7f269667257f111d…257f111d…2022-08-18 18:44:11 <billymg> either that or something wrong with the chart
c393f9a3005fb0eb…46d2db86…2022-08-22 21:12:15 signpost doesn't see *any* human who can prevent that crash. not presidents, not anyone assembled here.
d114e3be4bbd2544…4bbd2544…2022-08-26 08:40:11 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: atm can already have multiple keys for the same user in the wot
00b0de787f269667…7f269667…2022-08-18 18:45:03 <billymg> oh hey, new user agent http://bitdash.io/nodes/116.202.223.108-8333
e408e768c393f9a3…005fb0eb…2022-08-22 21:18:40 <billymg> signpost: so correct strategy is no longer "aim the meatsacks" but instead simply protect self and wot while watching the collapse?
077bab7dd114e3be…d114e3be…2022-08-26 08:40:49 <crtdaydreams> not much of an extension to designate the use of a particular key to a particular network
d460108bd5c83760…c393f9a3…2022-08-22 21:16:14 <signpost> making a correct call on what to do in this circumstance would be the bet of all time.
1e50ba37d460108b…d460108b…2022-08-22 21:16:49 <signpost> (and of course, little things break through and become big at exactly that kind of time, when the incumbent falters)
28469789eb57c325…eb57c325…2022-08-26 08:50:43 <crtdaydreams> i.e. atm l2+ nick conflict problem virtually non-extant, as no implmentations support l2+!
a6dab3cb1e50ba37…d5c83760…2022-08-22 21:24:00 billymg feels the same way, and suspected part of the reason for the recent quiet was everyone here internalizing/dealing with this in their own way
60e463ca28469789…28469789…2022-08-26 10:15:00 crtdaydreams is unaware of any two people here peered with two different bobs as only could exist in an impersonator scenario opposed to multinet collisions
3b77b393a6dab3cb…1e50ba37…2022-08-22 21:21:16 <signpost> yup. my signature's still affixed to a declaration of my personal sovereignty.
af9d3d8060e463ca…60e463ca…2022-08-26 10:17:45 <crtdaydreams> atm would see both bobs in #pest, as if in a different net would be running on a different process and therefore unrelated #pest
209f461c3b77b393…3b77b393…2022-08-22 21:22:07 <signpost> it can be rightly said that the scope of that "sovereignty" is infinitesimal.
262251a8af9d3d80…af9d3d80…2022-08-26 10:21:58 crtdaydreams begins to wonder which jonsykkel is peered with o_O
a3b48e6d209f461c…209f461c…2022-08-22 21:24:44 <signpost> whatever I may be, the better world to inhabit is the one in the direction of the greatest men's striving, the world *made of* that striving.
8e1a4c1b262251a8…7ee9c855…2022-08-26 10:23:28 <PeterL> signpost: I seem to remember one time you pasted a job offer letter into the chat?
14c8588b262251a8…262251a8…2022-08-26 10:27:45 <crtdaydreams> also, signpost, best use-case I can see of your pest dns / filesharing would be the decentralization of the deedbot wot itself, i.e. pgp keys & ratings etc. distributed across pest
98f5d26ea3b48e6d…a3b48e6d…2022-08-22 21:38:03 <signpost> re: why strive, hell, I like living. it's pretty good.
a46b191714c8588b…14c8588b…2022-08-26 10:30:05 crtdaydreams wonders if that constitutes as railing an ak
b3b11ae898f5d26e…98f5d26e…2022-08-22 21:49:52 <signpost> because I like living, and because my life relies upon centralized systems which are breaking or likely to break sooner than I feel like dying, seems reasonable to want to lift as many of those needs onto decentralized systems that will at worst survive, at best thrive in collapse.
28622cb5a46b1917…8e1a4c1b…2022-08-26 10:33:43 <PeterL> no, it had come up before as a useful addition
dd7d71c5a46b1917…a46b1917…2022-08-26 11:29:27 <crtdaydreams> ^ in similar vein, and trying to clarify ideas
67c41da6b3b11ae8…b3b11ae8…2022-08-22 22:01:27 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011358 << seems to me that what aims
cfe66cc228622cb5…28622cb5…2022-08-26 10:35:09 <PeterL> crtdaydreams: presuambly when you initiated the peering with each person it involved passing a key through gpg, so you should know who all your direct peers are
52c41df5dd7d71c5…dd7d71c5…2022-08-26 11:44:24 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: wasn't suggesting sidechat, nor neuron activation bing bong sounds for chimps
7bf37bbf67c41da6…a2aaf642…2022-08-22 22:01:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 17:03:51 billymg: in my head it goes vaguely something like: 1) promote pest, 2) critical mass of interesting discussion occurs on #pest (viewable in logs www), 3) heathens load up pestlogs.com while taking morning shit rather than twitter/4chan/andrewtateyoutube, 4) profit
d433d281cfe66cc2…cfe66cc2…2022-08-26 10:37:13 <PeterL> jonsykkel: you are defined as being your own L0, and the L# is the shortest path to each node, so therefore you are not in your L2
026c06a452c41df5…52c41df5…2022-08-26 11:45:35 crtdaydreams sure as hell hopes that instances will not go beyond a taskbar highlight for dms/mentions only
1241c47f7bf37bbf…67c41da6…2022-08-22 22:01:52 <signpost> *what aims the meatsacks is feeding them, and that's it.
567ec156d433d281…d433d281…2022-08-26 10:39:34 <PeterL> the pest spec does support dm-ing multiple people (sending the same message as a dm to each), but I don't think this is implemented yet (?) and I don't think my IRC clients knows how to do that anyway
7a1b9d121241c47f…1241c47f…2022-08-22 22:04:37 <signpost> wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc.
d9722e52567ec156…567ec156…2022-08-26 10:41:05 <PeterL> once that gets implemented, you could have your >2 person sidechat using multi-person dm's
bad4487dac2d31fd…bded3ec4…2022-08-26 11:46:59 <PeterL> crtdadreams: shouldn't the level of notification just be a setting in your client?
3d4579dbac2d31fd…ac2d31fd…2022-08-26 11:50:40 <crtdaydreams> PeterL: ofc, but I hold the expectation that the line between client and station will eventually be blurred, as aforementioned the irc frontend is temporary for the lack of time to write an effective gui, that and all available gui stacks appear to be shit
a3cbff0d7a1b9d12…7a1b9d12…2022-08-22 22:05:06 <signpost> imho this was always the objective of TMSR, as illustrated by the failed weev episode and others.
4d6d1005d9722e52…d9722e52…2022-08-26 10:42:27 <PeterL> (this in re. http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011613)
3183e5b83d4579db…3d4579db…2022-08-26 11:54:07 <crtdaydreams> whether or not the udp listening socket remains daemonized in a final form would be entirely up to implementation I would expect
75506d44a3cbff0d…a3cbff0d…2022-08-22 22:05:59 <signpost> "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies.
f78bea5d4d6d1005…b2e5fb07…2022-08-26 10:44:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 04:26:29 jonsykkel: somtimes it makes sense in meatspace that >2 ppl move away from group in this way
22333ac575506d44…75506d44…2022-08-22 22:07:09 <signpost> it's why I like the warez idea; it tidily bundles together what one needs for decentralized publishing of w/e.
ab59b6d0f78bea5d…4d6d1005…2022-08-26 10:46:12 <PeterL> and once you get the various networks set up, it is simple enough to have one client point at multiple pest-nets, like how my client lets me connect both here and to dulapnet at the same time.
c782ba5adde4ce60…dde4ce60…2022-08-26 11:58:15 <crtdaydreams> the #blatta example I used earlier was purely for illustrative purposes, but I get what you mean
70a5bbb322333ac5…22333ac5…2022-08-22 22:08:09 <signpost> "I want to efficiently distribute this byte-array I just produced among my frens, and them among their frens"
cf205aaec782ba5a…c782ba5a…2022-08-26 12:06:22 <crtdaydreams> admittedly I have a dickscord toilet acc, deleted acc at one point, couldn't contact anyone and wasn't apart of #a at the time, lived on burner accs for a while (only ever use webshit interface), eventually just caved in and made another acc. it's a love-hate relationship.
1f819e1370a5bbb3…a6dab3cb…2022-08-22 22:17:11 <billymg> signpost: that's what i was thinking too in terms of who, ideally, *participates* in pest (right now defense distributed and the bitcoin missionaries seem to default to twitter/telegram or whatever new trendy thing), the masses would just read the logs (like they read and u
34dd13bfcf205aae…cf205aae…2022-08-26 12:08:37 <crtdaydreams> it's pretty much the "uh but all muh friends use it" excuse
8f1646011f819e13…7bf37bbf…2022-08-22 22:13:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 15:43:47 awt: The p2p space on Twitter rn is all about keet and nostr.
18ecb2ad8f164601…1f819e13…2022-08-22 22:18:54 <billymg> last year i had a twatter account, was eventually suspended and i didn't bother creating another after that
6e8e741d18ecb2ad…8f164601…2022-08-22 22:15:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:06:25 signpost: "sane" people are deplatformed every day. once this thing's a viable alternative it oughta be aggressively promoted to those folks, who then bring their horde of normies.
e0d5bc9e8ac37c66…8ac37c66…2022-08-26 12:16:03 <crtdaydreams> managed to convince one guy to join me on XMPP
4f8c37036e8e741d…18ecb2ad…2022-08-22 22:19:47 <billymg> there's no point to those platforms, if you don't keep the discourse within the "invisible fence" then you're banned
c541a991e0d5bc9e…e0d5bc9e…2022-08-26 12:17:45 <crtdaydreams> was great initially, but sorta drifted since, whether product of platform or project, dunno to this day
5c636c214f8c3703…4f8c3703…2022-08-22 22:21:04 billymg never even touched any of the obvious ban-worthy topics, not entirely sure why banned. mostly just urged people to withdraw from exchanges because 100% of them are usg-owned
03400e875c636c21…5c636c21…2022-08-22 22:27:00 <billymg> signpost: but yeah, my idea wasn't "onboard reddit to #pest", but rather onboard the personalities they follow
2ab1e89efb61a7dc…fb61a7dc…2022-08-26 12:22:22 <crtdaydreams> thankfully avoided the cesspools mentioned above, pretty much comms for people I know AFK
38e154cb03400e87…03400e87…2022-08-22 22:28:02 <billymg> they can set up their own loggers and publish to their own websites. like a 24/7 continuous podcast, in text form, with only people they invite
73eded4538e154cb…38e154cb…2022-08-22 22:28:15 <billymg> and can say whatever taboo shit they like and never be deplatformed
0b7c24dcd2ce34e9…d2ce34e9…2022-08-29 03:40:21 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011732 << if it's anything like a fire sale, they hike up the prices two weeks in advance then it drops for the sale back to msrp
eb8358d72c45499b…2c45499b…2022-08-22 22:26:32 <signpost> importantly, not only say things, but sell things.
807313440b7c24dc…f8acb532…2022-08-29 03:40:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-28 13:35:58 shinohai: FIRE SALE!!!!!!
95032373eb8358d7…eb8358d7…2022-08-22 22:26:44 <signpost> "I am such-and-so identity and here are my wares."
97587ff695032373…95032373…2022-08-22 22:27:39 <signpost> when one of us gets killed for facilitating the sale of a brick of aluminum, pop the champagne.
53e423f30a279446…0a279446…2022-08-29 03:48:58 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011692 << gotcha.
42cc6b589dba7470…971d18db…2022-08-22 23:27:41 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011380 << updoot
c044711353e423f3…80731344…2022-08-29 03:49:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-26 19:36:32 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-26#1011643 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009689
60d746ae53e423f3…53e423f3…2022-08-29 08:00:59 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-27#1011723 << Not only practical, but a garb of quality not manufactured anymore (at least to my knowledge).
e8c56ebf42cc6b58…6e8e741d…2022-08-22 23:28:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:08:36 signpost: "I want to efficiently distribute this byte-array I just produced among my frens, and them among their frens"
eff260f160d746ae…c0447113…2022-08-29 08:01:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-27 17:24:14 phf[awt]: and nikolai the second wearing the same outfit (his was red though) https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48050981657_06e2f9a58d_o.jpg
8389027d60d746ae…60d746ae…2022-08-29 08:03:24 <crtdaydreams> Speaking of apparel quality, a pair of decent quality boots that last >6mo seems to be an astonishingly difficult thing to get a hold of.
b6e45b3fe8c56ebf…97587ff6…2022-08-23 00:05:37 <signpost> phf: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jtQP << here's where I'm at on the CL rewrite, doesn't work yet.
3f6fc3de8389027d…8389027d…2022-08-29 08:09:17 <crtdaydreams> There doesn't seem to be a linear correlation with greater expense == higher quality with footwear in general.
afed8010b6e45b3f…b6e45b3f…2022-08-23 00:05:52 <signpost> I've either fucked something up in inner-encode or decode, grunting through it with tests
db34f1563f6fc3de…3f6fc3de…2022-08-29 10:14:23 <crtdaydreams> vex: this one's for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxy1eF_w7sU
ad1163a8afed8010…42cc6b58…2022-08-23 00:12:11 <phf> first usecase for file sharing will be in-pest pastes :>
9b41d1e6db34f156…bad4487d…2022-08-29 10:36:30 <PeterL> crtdaydreams: I don't know if they are carried in your area, but Red Wing and Wolverine brand work boots seem to be the highest quality around here.
9bd3f205db34f156…db34f156…2022-08-29 21:54:30 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011806 << looks like they have a .au distributor, when current pair kicks the bucket will prolly give a pair of red wings a go.
e349e9539b41d1e6…9b41d1e6…2022-08-29 11:55:45 <PeterL> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-08-27#1113408 << obviously, if the hosting bill goes unpaid then the website disappears eventually.
848960349bd3f205…3a5b68b9…2022-08-29 21:55:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 06:36:52 PeterL: crtdaydreams: I don't know if they are carried in your area, but Red Wing and Wolverine brand work boots seem to be the highest quality around here.
f400edd59bd3f205…9bd3f205…2022-08-29 22:02:08 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011816 << interesting. not dissimilar from "queens guard"
0941c7ef951a6690…ad1163a8…2022-08-23 00:15:36 <phf> what's the reference document for the theory part?
89e0cffae349e953…e94850f1…2022-08-29 11:56:36 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-27 ARCHIMEDES: Is there any potential that MP's website hosting bill may go unpaid, or for that matter, that the site may simply disappear at some point?
dbb0f147f400edd5…84896034…2022-08-29 22:02:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 09:59:16 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011801 << well, it's certainly still manufactured, because "kuban cossacks" is a strange ru paramilitary organization, which is equal parts freemasons, honorable order of kentucky colonels, stolen valor larpers, religious police and parade unit
0d03352df400edd5…f400edd5…2022-08-29 22:03:20 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011823 << imagine would be better than nuthin' in coming winter
774ec0e30941c7ef…951a6690…2022-08-23 00:18:12 <signpost> https://cs.nyu.edu/media/publications/TR2002-833.pdf
f688398789e0cffa…0fcf0c01…2022-08-29 12:55:12 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011793 << It's that NGU technology. ^_^
efb2a6ed0d03352d…dbb0f147…2022-08-29 22:03:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 10:16:51 phf[awt]: i was at some point surprised to find high quality garments in ru, that are made locally and sold very cheap, that are designed for military and infrastructure use. it's a kind of highbreed between us military surplus and prison made clothing. if you want e.g. fishing gear to sit out
55244e6b0d03352d…0d03352d…2022-08-30 09:43:49 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011839 & http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011842 << The problem I find is they all look more akin to dress boots, it also doesn't look they have an awful lot of grip, but perhaps running on el-cheapo boots has corrupted my value compass. I feel like i'd ruin them quite quickly
c6fd670a774ec0e3…774ec0e3…2022-08-23 00:18:35 <signpost> https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-bigdown.pdf
b75f009df6883987…eff260f1…2022-08-29 12:55:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-28 23:40:51 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011732 << if it's anything like a fire sale, they hike up the prices two weeks in advance then it drops for the sale back to msrp
6dbb5875efb2a6ed…5b98eea7…2022-08-29 22:32:41 <phf> i've stopped by a handful of red wing stores and somehow their instore offerings are always ugly as hell
dc53a6be55244e6b…efb2a6ed…2022-08-30 09:44:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 18:33:25 billymg: crtdaydreams: can confirm, wolverine boots are great. i've got three pairs of these i bought in ny after a coworker got me into the trend
8537fb30c6fd670a…c6fd670a…2022-08-23 00:19:00 <signpost> https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-bigdown-talk.pdf
7cb375dcb75f009d…f6883987…2022-08-29 12:55:48 <shinohai> Been kinda behind with my blatta maintenance, will be pressing latest after un cafecito this morning.
d17e2ae76dbb5875…7881fbb4…2022-08-29 22:36:42 <billymg> crtdaydreams: can confirm, wolverine boots are great. i've got three pairs of these i bought in ny after a coworker got me into the trend
4784f2579c0e35e1…9c0e35e1…2022-08-30 09:44:23 crtdaydreams ought to seperate use-cases in this instance between more trade-work and daily drivers / yard work
d8c829f7dc53a6be…dc53a6be…2022-08-30 09:44:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 18:34:51 billymg: phf: imo their only worthwhile offering is the [iron ranger][https://www.redwingshoes.com/heritage/mens/Iron-Ranger-08111.html]
250eb7257cb375dc…f0e7e4ee…2022-08-29 13:37:23 <phf> i've been slow with my pest progress, because i started building a general solution for message rendering: maintain packet graph, insert into graph on packet receipt, do a kahn sort, then diff the result sequence using Hirschberg algorithm, which tells me “optimal” minimal updates to the already rendered message view (
90a57554250eb725…250eb725…2022-08-29 13:37:23 <phf> i.e. if the packet was appended or if it's out of order and needs to be inserted somewhere in the past)
8488663f1c6d9676…1c6d9676…2022-08-29 22:37:11 <billymg> also had a pair of redwings that i just recently gave away, wolverines are slightly higher quality imo
934a757e7a9c291e…7a9c291e…2022-08-30 09:47:51 <crtdaydreams> prolly should also mention have worn mostly running shoes entire life due to school requirement being that
7cc7eacf90a57554…90a57554…2022-08-29 13:38:07 <phf> something tells me there's a simpler way of doing things, but…
49b37bce8488663f…8488663f…2022-08-29 22:38:07 <billymg> phf: imo their only worthwhile offering is the [iron ranger][https://www.redwingshoes.com/heritage/mens/Iron-Ranger-08111.html]
1b2011b5934a757e…9b95cd44…2022-08-30 12:56:57 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011867 << what peterl said, but more specifically leather is choose your own adventure. if you use them as dress shoes they'll retain their luster, but if you use them as trade shoes they'll break in pretty fast
466db57f7cc7eacf…7cc7eacf…2022-08-29 13:39:10 <phf> but meanwhile i can do a simple prod song and dance to make sure that my netchain/selfchain are correct :> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Oesr
92072fe649b37bce…6dbb5875…2022-08-29 22:36:02 <phf> yes, which is also the only boot that's practical for me: i need traditional heel and low tread sole, because anything else has a risk of getting caught in stirrup
1fa2715098234b6c…98234b6c…2022-08-30 10:06:33 crtdaydreams just attempted to measure foot size by using measuring tape, apparently indicating foot is 42.5cm long
b0151e521b2011b5…38d8453d…2022-08-30 12:57:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 05:44:21 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011839 & http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011842 << The problem I find is they all look more akin to dress boots, it also doesn't look they have an awful lot of grip, but perhaps running on el-cheapo boots has
bc6dc77f466db57f…466db57f…2022-08-29 13:58:46 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011801 << well, it's certainly still manufactured, because "kuban cossacks" is a strange ru paramilitary organization, which is equal parts freemasons, honorable order of kentucky colonels, stolen valor larpers, religious police and parade units
7a8e12c992072fe6…92072fe6…2022-08-29 22:36:15 <phf> but i've not seen an iron ranger in store even once :o
4eb57d89b0151e52…1b2011b5…2022-08-30 13:00:22 <phf> either way you want to take care of them, i usually clean mine with dry brush, and then wipe with a rag and mink oil (leather boot stores sell "care" packages)
3a5b68b9bc6dc77f…b75f009d…2022-08-29 13:59:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 04:01:30 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-27#1011723 << Not only practical, but a garb of quality not manufactured anymore (at least to my knowledge).
b81a6a2f7a8e12c9…e349e953…2022-08-29 22:36:40 <PeterL> I have a pair of Woverine steel-toes that I got from a previous employer, after 7 years they are pretty beat up but I still use them whenever I do yardwork.
298cbc4b4eb57d89…4eb57d89…2022-08-30 13:04:29 <phf> the damage on your work boots will accumulate and they won't look dressy (though if you really want to spend time on it, you can buff out even deep scruffs), but i think it's proper to touch them up on the regular
a18070573a5b68b9…bc6dc77f…2022-08-29 14:00:12 <phf> e.g. https://kubnews.ru/upload/resize_cache/iblock/1b1/800_533_2/1b19c3fd5b64ef7d53bdcdab827f3648.jpg
f5d07cfbb81a6a2f…b81a6a2f…2022-08-29 22:37:53 <PeterL> now I mostly wear a pair of Hytest steel-toe shoes, they are a bit older than the others and I had to get the insoles replaced, but the outer shell is still in good shape
7a897f6420dcf914…20dcf914…2022-08-30 10:08:02 <crtdaydreams> apparently sizing only goes up to 30.2mm
8165028c298cbc4b…80864fca…2022-08-30 13:04:21 <PeterL> phf: you are right about using them as dress shoes. Like I said, I'm pretty gentle with mine. They are something like 9 years old, but I wear them to church every week and don't feel out of place
38d5c04fa1807057…a1807057…2022-08-29 14:01:17 <phf> but also https://www.yuga.ru/media/e9/6b/kazaki-postroenie_b03__9e6xmif.jpg
c0a505cef5d07cfb…f5d07cfb…2022-08-29 22:39:40 <PeterL> these are the shoes where I was moving a piano, dropped it about a foot straight down onto my foot. I looked down and said "heh, glad I'm wearing protective shoes!"
dbec33ea8165028c…d8f9e6e0…2022-08-30 13:15:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011902 << buy 2 pairs ?
4f773bce38d5c04f…38d5c04f…2022-08-29 14:04:54 <phf> here's a whole bunch of photos from "kuban cossack parade", https://regnum.ru/news/cultura/2616075.html
c442ee6ec0a505ce…c0a505ce…2022-08-29 22:40:19 <PeterL> left a small dent in the leather on top of the shoe, but I didn't feel anything
26d14facdbec33ea…b0151e52…2022-08-30 13:16:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 08:57:29 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011867 << what peterl said, but more specifically leather is choose your own adventure. if you use them as dress shoes they'll retain their luster, but if you use them as trade shoes they'll break in pretty fast
c62eedef4f773bce…4f773bce…2022-08-29 14:07:53 <phf> now as to the "quality", that a different question, there's definitely a handful of manufacturers who make a whole range, from cheap cotton immitations to
162097a2c442ee6e…c442ee6e…2022-08-29 22:42:32 <PeterL> Where I work I'm required to have steel-toes for safety reasons, but I don't put a lot of wear on them like a guy in the trades would, and the biggest thing I have actually dropped on my toe at work was a wrench the size of my pinky
251771e026d14fac…298cbc4b…2022-08-30 13:22:22 <phf> or better yet 3, 1 pair of dress boots and 2 pairs of daily work boots that you rotate daily
2019624dc62eedef…c62eedef…2022-08-29 14:10:08 <phf> sent it before finished editing; from cotton immitations to i suspect somewhat functional wool replicas, that had at least some field use in mind
d62596f3162097a2…7a8e12c9…2022-08-29 22:44:17 <phf> my current go to boot is a lulzy frankenstein: it's a cheap chinese “classic” doc martens, where some city cobbler replaced the sole with whatever he had in a box, because the stitching was a fake and the sole just separated. the cobbler put it on glue, but when it separated second time a local amish cobbler's son stit
b3162f132019624d…2019624d…2022-08-29 14:16:20 <phf> i was at some point surprised to find high quality garments in ru, that are made locally and sold very cheap, that are designed for military and infrastructure use. it's a kind of highbreed between us military surplus and prison made clothing. if you want e.g. fishing gear to sit outside in -40c all day can have the whole
d41619e7d62596f3…d62596f3…2022-08-29 22:44:17 <phf> ched it proper. so now it's actually a semi-descent shoe. i wore it for ~~10 years.
1f4c9c8a92d6c97a…251771e0…2022-08-30 13:33:21 <phf> asciilifeform, lots of men engage in social obligations, where they use clothing to signal respect and establish social cohesion. wearing the same milspec army surplus gear everywhere is often seen as deviant behavior!
475dd9c3b3162f13…b3162f13…2022-08-29 14:16:20 <phf> set (coverall, boots, thermals, under layer) for ~~$100 and it'll work and mostly last, but will look ugly. i suspect cossack coats have similar quality
58fce171d41619e7…d41619e7…2022-08-29 22:44:58 <phf> i had a horse step on the toe a few times, it's not a piano, but it made me wish to have a steel toe
a823a3a91f4c9c8a…92d6c97a…2022-08-30 14:11:31 <asciilifeform> phf: noshit. even asciilifeform has parade boots
7f33c3d0475dd9c3…2483fff9…2022-08-29 14:19:57 <asciilifeform> phf: afaik indeed comes in 'cosplay' and 'practical' flavour, rather like usa 'tacticals'; and the 2 not much resemble one anuther
83c4f5ab58fce171…162097a2…2022-08-29 22:44:30 <PeterL> the other time the steel toes comes in handy is when my kids are around, they always want to stand right on my feet when they talk to me
3c4a99a5b5d22477…b5d22477…2022-08-30 11:12:11 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: not going. broke a machine this afternoon and have to get out the oxy-acetylene tomorrow morn. gotta straighten a roller D:
7ede4fa77f33c3d0…475dd9c3…2022-08-29 14:43:26 <phf> milspec cherkeska: PALS instead of gazyr, shorten to right above knees, MARPAT
6623ccfa83c4f5ab…58fce171…2022-08-29 22:46:03 <phf> oh the amish also replaced the insole and the heel. stone soup shoe
c4f5f64f3c4a99a5…3c4a99a5…2022-08-30 11:13:15 <crtdaydreams> so a bit grumpy about that, just had dinner and prolly head to bed shortly. how about you?
5b98eea77ede4fa7…7ede4fa7…2022-08-29 14:44:52 <phf> of course for traditional reasons one wears triple mag pouch where gazyr used to be
bef6f1fe6623ccfa…6623ccfa…2022-08-29 22:49:18 <phf> PeterL, that seems like a kind of parenting experience one wants to minimize but then misses dearly
bad60548c4f5f64f…155f99f1…2022-08-30 11:15:20 <shinohai> Not too bad here, waiting on the espresso to finish, then gonna tinker with blatta a bit more probably.
1102471bc4f5f64f…c4f5f64f…2022-08-30 11:16:20 <crtdaydreams> shinohai one of those cup ones or grinder?
04d1d64d2540b7ce…2540b7ce…2022-08-30 14:13:13 asciilifeform not worn parade uniform for rather loong time tho
d8f9e6e05b98eea7…7f33c3d0…2022-08-29 15:55:25 <asciilifeform> phf: the undying 'full mag stopped bullet' meme prolly also connected
4d58a191bef6f1fe…83c4f5ab…2022-08-29 22:49:36 <PeterL> when I have my shoes on it's fine, but then they do it when I don't have on shoes, and that hundred pounds starts to hurt
4cc3161f1102471b…bad60548…2022-08-30 11:20:32 <shinohai> If by cups you mean those coffee pods, ewwwww.
65fc76fe1102471b…1102471b…2022-08-30 11:34:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011893 << ewwwwwwww indeed
1079e8a0ccb84f92…fa6cc5c5…2023-07-01 14:17:51 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-boosts-defenses-north-satellite-images-show-likely-wagner-base-belarus lol!!
de344b384cc3161f…47785119…2022-08-30 11:32:27 <PeterL> crtdaydreams: they may look like dress boots at first, but if you use them that goes away pretty fast. If they are built right, you don't have to worry about ruining them.
184bfffa65fc76fe…65fc76fe…2022-08-30 11:34:46 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011894 << yeah righto
dbf4fac965fc76fe…d8c829f7…2022-08-30 11:34:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 07:21:04 shinohai: If by cups you mean those coffee pods, ewwwww.
d947580379be9ad8…4d58a191…2022-08-29 23:15:19 <PeterL> right!?! and they are always so needy, like they expect me to feed them every single day or something
fbf89a0b1079e8a0…5d7fe502…2023-07-01 14:33:12 <awt_akris> Where is the best place to get ahold of phf's V these days? I have it, but I'm attempting to document the installation process for the new station and would like to link to a V.
6f5e3fae184bfffa…dbf4fac9…2022-08-30 11:35:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 07:32:56 PeterL: crtdaydreams: they may look like dress boots at first, but if you use them that goes away pretty fast. If they are built right, you don't have to worry about ruining them.
3816ef9b184bfffa…184bfffa…2022-08-30 11:35:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011897 << I neglected to read the 200
80864fcadbf4fac9…de344b38…2022-08-30 11:34:40 <PeterL> 42.5mm, what are you measuring, your big toe?
47785119d9475803…d9475803…2022-08-29 23:16:26 <PeterL> although, sometimes it is funny. Like my teen-ager was all "I'm hungry" and I said to make a sandwich, and they were like "meh, that's too much work"
38d8453d3816ef9b…6f5e3fae…2022-08-30 11:35:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 07:35:09 PeterL: 42.5mm, what are you measuring, your big toe?
4fbb26473816ef9b…3816ef9b…2022-08-31 03:16:23 <crtdaydreams> unrelated query; what microcontrollers would folx around here rec?
985e5a8a76a31d12…9a0c2564…2022-08-30 15:10:02 <phf> i remember der weiße engel from marathon man, but apparently it was joseph mengele's nickname. went to wikipedia article, and it's pure gold. from “Talk” page “ It's true the book has no footnotes or bibliography. But Alan Levy was an award-winning journalist and editor-in-chief of The Prague Post, so I don't person
b764448947785119…ace24d0d…2022-08-29 23:54:02 <awt> PeterL: my daughter just started cooking her own food because she didn't like what I was making. Of course she mostly cooks mac&cheese and pasta w/ red sauce.
2cab4f92262967fc…fbf89a0b…2023-07-01 14:36:38 <awt_akris> signpost: http://trinque.org is not loading for me at the moment. I am out of date on where you're hosting pentacle.
744a4cecb7644489…b8126139…2022-08-30 00:56:57 <signpost> I recently noticed how much having my toes jammed together sucks, currently hunting for a good wide toe-box shoe.
0a697c582cab4f92…262967fc…2023-07-01 14:39:18 <signpost> I did a dumb and emitted hsts headers from that domain; it's up but everyone's chrome who loaded it with https is stuck until removing them from w/e hsts cache, but I have another link, sec
60296580d4b64e4d…d4b64e4d…2022-08-31 03:26:38 <asciilifeform> this is rather like asking 'what diesel motors would folx around here rec?'
491a16fa19e14fb4…19e14fb4…2022-08-30 15:10:56 <phf> “Main photo should remove military uniforms that show a prideful Mengele in Nazi clothes. The man is a war criminal and the photo is not victim centric. A disgraced photo of him on the run is more suitable.”
9222f009744a4cec…744a4cec…2022-08-30 00:57:15 <signpost> worked from home for too long and my toes spread out!
c241506f60296580…60296580…2022-08-31 03:27:13 <asciilifeform> ... for wat? for bulldozer? dump truck? freighter? uboat? answr will vary
f0576beba8bc833f…a8bc833f…2022-08-31 03:31:05 <crtdaydreams> voltage will prolly be in AC, but a bridge rectifier and cap should handle that
0b0e6d439222f009…79be9ad8…2022-08-30 01:18:44 <phf> correct method is of course to keep your foot's last at your preferred cordwainer :}
ea0b3b062bbc18f4…0a697c58…2023-07-01 14:41:37 <signpost> awt_akris: http://problematic.site/src/pentacle.tar.gz http://problematic.site/src/pentacle.tar.gz.asc
4cecebb2f0576beb…c241506f…2022-08-31 03:31:23 <asciilifeform> pick sumthing you're comfortable with in re instr set (or if lazy, sumthing gcc targets)
384893c5f0576beb…f0576beb…2022-08-31 03:32:11 <crtdaydreams> problem is I don't have any experience with any microcontrollers
e4a90090c6f508b7…c6f508b7…2022-08-30 15:13:34 asciilifeform recalls the hand-drawn 'playing cards' from '17 moments of spring'
9dcdc3ea0b0e6d43…9222f009…2022-08-30 01:36:57 <signpost> answer to so many things... "have you considered having real ones made?"
b69d3c9eea0b3b06…ea0b3b06…2023-07-01 14:42:04 <signpost> should be able to just untar and bootstrap, and then inside the chroot it produces you'll have a gnat, vtools, etc
938c091dea0b3b06…2bb70331…2023-07-28 13:52:47 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-28#1029070 << I read it, but it was about 25 years ago when I was a teenager, so I don't remember any more than the general plot
06e893384cecebb2…4cecebb2…2022-08-31 03:31:40 <asciilifeform> if yer building a 1-off to use on own desk, rather than mass production, cost dun matter at all
b0c5dd2d384893c5…384893c5…2022-08-31 03:32:39 <crtdaydreams> this is sorta a project that I've been meaning to do and would be good to learn some more of electronics
ffc106a9e4a90090…491a16fa…2022-08-30 15:15:38 <phf> tbh, i haven't rewatched it since the 90s, what's the reference?
c59fea4c9dcdc3ea…c662b7da…2022-08-30 01:47:09 shinohai searches for "cobblers near signpost" finds nothing .....
9d6f0274938c091d…11c975db…2023-07-28 13:54:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 05:10:30 gregorynyssa[jonsykkel|signpost]: Has anyone here read Asimov's Foundation trilogy? Is anyone watching Apple TV's adaptation?
df55f4c206e89338…06e89338…2022-08-31 03:31:56 <asciilifeform> (an 'expensive' micro is still usually < 10 $ )
e2e6d514b0c5dd2d…df55f4c2…2022-08-31 03:33:36 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: take e.g. this one, marketed to abject n00bs, has pretty good library for commonplace situations and virtually efforless toolchain setup
7dd20051b0c5dd2d…b0c5dd2d…2022-08-31 03:33:37 <crtdaydreams> I get the principles and have The art of electronics on standby if need be
9b95cd44c59fea4c…0b0e6d43…2022-08-30 02:02:36 <phf> welcome to "that's why we can't have nice things"
f28c598252459a6d…52459a6d…2023-07-01 14:42:53 <signpost> all statically built, so the bins can be plucked out and used wherever.
951eee8b9d6f0274…938c091d…2023-07-28 13:57:53 <PeterL> Did you watch the movie "I, Robot" (with Will Smith)? About the only thing it had in common with Asimov's book was the same title. The plot was actually closer to the book "Caves of Steel", but I guess they took the other name because it is more memorable
f04b8ef9e2e6d514…3d3f6f56…2022-08-31 03:34:08 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-09 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i dun have anyffin against it, there are at least 3 controlling various mechanisms in asciilifeform's torture room, it's a cheap rubbish board
1dbb583d7dd20051…7dd20051…2022-08-31 03:37:15 crtdaydreams unsure which arduino board in reference ther
4cb4925df28c5982…2bbc18f4…2023-07-01 14:44:54 <awt_akris> signpost: perfect! ty. was aware it could do this but link between v <-> pentacle somehow was deleted in my mind.
dfb19e00951eee8b…c03ec92f…2023-07-28 16:35:45 <asciilifeform> billymg: interestingly, xiafuxiangfei not shows up in loggers ( neither yours or mine )
b5a3f347f04b8ef9…e2e6d514…2022-08-31 03:34:07 <asciilifeform> comes on a breakout board with screw contacts
ab1aaff51dbb583d…e7a9967a…2022-08-31 03:37:29 <asciilifeform> 'arduino' has reputation of 'unsportsmanlike, for lamers' etc, but if yer problem consists of 'i wanna close a relay contact when voltage so-and-so' it'll do the job and you can bake it and fughet about it
6b4186ba1dbb583d…1dbb583d…2022-08-31 03:40:42 <crtdaydreams> is reasonable price considering AUD conversion?
ccbea0737eaefcab…7eaefcab…2022-08-30 16:33:35 <phf> subj https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOS1YxYa3Mk
3646efc44cb4925d…f28c5982…2023-07-01 14:46:24 signpost would like to get back to development on it at some point. grander ambitions there than just a static builder, but useful as is for that.
1175cc43dfb19e00…dfb19e00…2023-07-28 16:36:02 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa if he's using your client, it may be mishandling bounces
4709a41aab1aaff5…ab1aaff5…2022-08-31 03:38:18 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: for that one used a 'Micro Beetle ATmega32u4'
7258a43a6b4186ba…6b4186ba…2022-08-31 03:43:08 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011982 << is the contrary considered "glue 6502 to to pcb and design own data bus w/ 4 eeprom"?
504181fbccbea073…ccbea073…2022-08-30 16:34:49 <phf> for the log reader, obv, for any other scion of su, like asciilifeform, there's no need for a reminder
a6432cd13646efc4…4cb4925d…2023-07-01 14:47:50 <awt_akris> lol "A file named pentacle.tar.gz already exists in your downloads folder. Would you like to replace it?"
a056f98194a900a1…94a900a1…2022-08-31 03:41:45 <asciilifeform> the box you'll put it in will likely cost moar
00b1ebbd7258a43a…f04b8ef9…2022-08-31 03:43:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 23:38:06 asciilifeform[4]: 'arduino' has reputation of 'unsportsmanlike, for lamers' etc, but if yer problem consists of 'i wanna close a relay contact when voltage so-and-so' it'll do the job and you can bake it and fughet about it
80b7ca8a7258a43a…7258a43a…2022-08-31 03:45:06 <crtdaydreams> 1c makes a dent when you're churning out 1,000,000+ shitblocks
eb4eaefc504181fb…504181fb…2022-08-30 16:41:22 <phf> that's a cool scene, i haven't seen it done anywhere else, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWkTOJxbyA the plot line is that the main character, a spy, gets a meeting with his wife, which involves them seeting at the opposite ends of some random cafe, he alone, and she with a cover date, and periodically looking at each ot
1fe48bd3a6432cd1…3646efc4…2023-07-01 14:47:51 <signpost> the eventual notion is that signed jobs containing a squashfs payload can be distributed to controlled machines via pest.
e022c36e28e02703…62ce369b…2023-07-28 16:45:54 <billymg> asciilifeform: i'm not even seeing xiafuxiangfei in my terminal
1634b499a056f981…a056f981…2022-08-31 03:42:29 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: typically you can buy sumthing arduinoish locally tho, if not necessarily in the keychain form factor
e808344400b1ebbd…3884fb40…2022-08-31 03:43:53 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: not necessarily, most commercial products with micros, where unit cost actually matters, use 'smallest that'll do the job' and programmed in asm
92eb35ce80b7ca8a…80b7ca8a…2022-08-31 03:46:32 <crtdaydreams> was initially considering this, but defo overkill
8e6adda5e022c36e…28e02703…2023-07-28 16:45:39 <asciilifeform> 06:49:19 xiafuxiangfei[jonsykkel] | hi │
3884fb401634b499…1634b499…2022-08-31 03:42:50 <asciilifeform> if it aint particularly important what physical dimensions, simply buy cheapest local thing
4c9382ebe8083444…e8083444…2022-08-31 03:44:26 <asciilifeform> even the venarable pic16x84 ( asciilifeform's 1st micro, '90s) is still produced afaik
e1a54b7892eb35ce…92eb35ce…2022-08-31 03:46:47 <crtdaydreams> wasn't aware they came in smaller packages
bd4e8fd5ff01a352…cb40093f…2022-08-30 16:58:25 <asciilifeform> phf: reportedly it nearly got cut in production, director fought tooth'n'nail to keep it
f20a2b9d55c543f9…55c543f9…2023-07-01 14:48:18 <signpost> anyway, if bitgod wants me to continue to build this, he will tell me next year.
3f4cfb408e6adda5…8e6adda5…2023-07-28 16:45:42 <asciilifeform> 06:50:18 xiafuxiangfei[jonsykkel] | i │
1e802e0f237f62cc…237f62cc…2022-08-31 03:39:59 asciilifeform needed strictly to send 4 different strings at 9600 baud when 1 of 4 respective buttons hit
e8d98416e1a54b78…69cb211e…2022-08-31 03:47:19 <asciilifeform> 'arduino' is simply a software kit on top of 'atmel' (can program it in asm if prefer)
0bebfe95e1a54b78…e1a54b78…2022-08-31 21:53:15 <crtdaydreams> tyty jonsykkel, also is the random 8-byte string there as tempdir?
c5a680eef20a2b9d…f20a2b9d…2023-07-01 14:49:29 <signpost> an aggressively censorship resistant stack is possible with pest, something like I described above, occ (aka squirt/slurp), etc
acb7fbf03f4cfb40…3f4cfb40…2023-07-28 16:45:43 <asciilifeform> 06:51:18 xiafuxiangfei[jonsykkel] | i'm gregory friend
971d86871e802e0f…1e802e0f…2022-08-31 03:40:30 <asciilifeform> took maybe hour to bake, and most of it went for drilling holes for the buttons & spraypainting the box
a8bd4e2fc5a680ee…4777cb4b…2023-07-01 16:13:12 <asciilifeform> re: censors, was thinking : possibly pest oughta take 1st 496 bytes of incoming packet (i.e. permit rng padding to random size within some range), station ops may need to trade 'no frags' for 'not making pesticity obvious to snoops by size'
63b67bb2acb7fbf0…951eee8b…2023-07-28 16:50:33 <PeterL> awt: I was going to try out Akris, but realized my Python3 is about 5 versions out of date, will have to upgrade that first
c6351008cfa371f3…cfa371f3…2022-08-31 22:08:19 <crtdaydreams> cannot webcrawl or browse a directory listing
5eb4378b79129758…dbce1804…2022-08-30 17:29:33 <awt> https://twitter.com/tyonclubhouse/status/1564661282598318080?s=21&t=6BlbMypgxoZpbcFgtK6XKg: things are seemingly already quite expensive in yurup
52cc6a07a8bd4e2f…a8bd4e2f…2023-07-01 16:15:25 <asciilifeform> currently it is far too easy to zap pest traffic with ids rule 'length == 496'
ba532d5fa5e0277f…e022c36e…2023-07-28 16:47:13 <billymg> ah, from jonsykkel. interesting, my station's AT shows we're peered (last ping is current)
740ee65f63b67bb2…63b67bb2…2023-07-28 16:52:23 <PeterL> I've not logged in for a while, and the way Blatta dumps backdata makes it hard to follow the conversation while it is still churning, I am looking forward to switching to a better client
dc7645f46495113d…095b59e8…2022-08-31 10:22:03 <shinohai> crtdaydreams: Will echo asciilifeform, atmega328 (or similar) not worst I've ever tinkered with, can run ulisp even! http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011976
5bd332a05eb4378b…49b37bce…2022-08-30 17:34:38 <billymg> apparently not enough people withdrawing their IOU coins from the goxes
ad557f6e740ee65f…93e0cdd3…2023-07-28 17:39:16 <awt> PeterL, you can try with the older version. Just causes problems building the static binary afaik.
bf7cfd61dc7645f4…00b1ebbd…2022-08-31 10:22:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 23:34:08 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: take e.g. this one, marketed to abject n00bs, has pretty good library for commonplace situations and virtually efforless toolchain setup
f89f86651fc4521c…a6432cd1…2023-07-01 17:13:11 <awt_akris> signpost: currently seeing this error attempting to build pentacle: http://paste.deedbot.org/
fdaba3daad557f6e…a8527882…2023-07-28 17:54:46 <billymg> awt: i added `logger.info(event)` to the top of your `handle_enter` function, this is the output: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Zf1a
52ff212dbf7cfd61…bf7cfd61…2022-08-31 12:40:14 <phf> does anybody have copies of the recent-ish taocp pdfs that have table of contents and internal links. the stuff that floats around and that i have are old scans
b922ada6c349c201…c349c201…2022-09-01 11:09:33 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: also, why is the favicon for your site the facebook logo?
14c3ddc2f89f8665…f89f8665…2023-07-01 17:13:35 <awt_akris> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=30Wohttp://paste.deedbot.org/?id=30Wo
9e2b1381fdaba3da…fdaba3da…2023-07-28 17:55:14 <billymg> so the handler is at least being properly called on enter
504cb1a552ff212d…52ff212d…2022-08-31 12:43:19 <phf> it's the ones that are listed as ebooks here https://www.informit.com/promotions/art-of-computer-programming-books-and-ebooks-140521
e630121d504cb1a5…504cb1a5…2022-08-31 12:43:55 <phf> there used to be sample chapters posted, i think even at that link, but i can't find them anymore, but to quote knuth
663726641a686aee…1a686aee…2022-09-02 07:22:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011904 << does mink oil darken the leather a lot? and are you treating it like ordinary boot polish and use it to buff out scruffs etc?
c5840a6be630121d…e630121d…2022-08-31 12:44:00 <phf> “These volumes are now available also in portable electronic form, using PDF format prepared by the experts at Mathematical Sciences Publishers. Special care has been taken to make the search feature work well. Thousands of useful "clickable" cross-references are also provided — from exercises to their answers and back
ffe8ba0066372664…c3f2e2d7…2022-09-02 07:23:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 09:00:54 phf[awt]: either way you want to take care of them, i usually clean mine with dry brush, and then wipe with a rag and mink oil (leather boot stores sell "care" packages)
390248db424539e1…424539e1…2022-08-30 17:52:19 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-29#1011861 << lol same thing happened to me from wearing nothing but flip flops in cr. i've seen these mentioned before (made to order work/dress boots), if i lived in the US i'd give them a try
cb863b2fa30f1018…4afda273…2023-07-01 17:15:17 <awt_akris> $DEB_DIR/target/src/chroot "$DEB_DIR" /target/src/pbuild install autoconf --nodeps
340e24d8c5840a6b…c5840a6b…2022-08-31 12:44:00 <phf> , from the index to the text, from the text to important tables and figures, etc.
”
13fe9d86c22a77c3…c22a77c3…2022-09-02 07:25:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011909 << sad wallet
e66b172d390248db…26d14fac…2022-08-30 17:49:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-29 20:57:28 signpost: I recently noticed how much having my toes jammed together sucks, currently hunting for a good wide toe-box shoe.
5249f936cb863b2f…a30f1018…2023-07-01 17:15:44 <signpost> is there a shell at the place the shebang in src/chroot expects one on your system?
97db894f72517b2a…72517b2a…2023-07-28 17:58:04 <billymg> but i like numlock! how else am i supposed use the bean counter pad to enter numbers?
709e0c3b340e24d8…340e24d8…2022-08-31 12:53:28 <phf> i'll go out on a limb and say that i suspect that not a single digital copy of taocp that's circulating in pirate version has ever been read, and that it's all larp and chan style hoarding “got some lit warez bro, makes you smart”
511e2f9413fe9d86…ffe8ba00…2022-09-02 07:25:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 09:22:54 phf[awt]: or better yet 3, 1 pair of dress boots and 2 pairs of daily work boots that you rotate daily
834b3b8913fe9d86…13fe9d86…2022-09-02 08:09:05 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzICMIu5zFY
d53ca31de66b172d…bd4e8fd5…2022-08-30 17:57:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011938 << live by the gox, die by the gox
ea8108cf709e0c3b…709e0c3b…2022-08-31 12:57:34 <phf> mathematical sciences publisher ebooks have been out for a while, and if there was a genuine need among “the people” to use taocp as reference material, they would've long been leaked
3e99e0a7834b3b89…044cdf94…2022-09-02 14:50:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-02#1012082 << i wouldn't be able to tell you from experience. i've been told before that mink oil weakens leather, but because it's made form mink fat, i suspect there's also an ulterior motive. i only apply mink oil to my already black boots, and it definitely darkens, i.e. it goes from
ebd69f82834b3b89…834b3b89…2022-09-03 00:28:36 <crtdaydreams> looks like my online bookstore of choice has the whole TAoCP collection availiable for preorder, hardcover and all.
527744d7d53ca31d…e66b172d…2022-08-30 17:57:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 13:34:55 billymg: in some cases, can't withdraw!
eb535aa3ea8108cf…ea8108cf…2022-08-31 13:05:45 <phf> i should just bite the bullet and buy the pdfs, but pearson are such utter grifters, the whole thing is disgusting. even the fact that they list “eBooks include EPUB, MOBI, and PDF formats.” where PDF, last, is carefully handcrafted by master texnicians from msp, where's epub and mobi are junk conversions by bottom fee
c2acac353e99e0a7…511e2f94…2022-09-02 14:51:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-02 03:23:13 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011904 << does mink oil darken the leather a lot? and are you treating it like ordinary boot polish and use it to buff out scruffs etc?
98fcdac4527744d7…d53ca31d…2022-08-30 17:58:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011940 << wai eu needs heat eh? aint it enuff to have ordnung and hyoomanrights(tm) ?
07a2bfb97431c87e…7431c87e…2023-07-01 17:16:53 <signpost> a temporary symlink to bash or a posix-ish shell oughta do ya
51f02314c2acac35…e0af0ea6…2022-09-02 14:57:12 <phf> i bought my first "proper" leather boots a decade ago at a hippie boots store in ashville, nc and they suggested this stuff https://www.obenaufs.com/heavy-duty-lp-p/leather-preservative-paste.htm which is what i've been using on my more expensive leather, and also horse tack and it definitely "darkens", but not in a sense
f01d690f7de4f948…7de4f948…2022-09-03 03:57:35 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-02#1113486 << oblig.
421547cc98fcdac4…527744d7…2022-08-30 17:59:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 13:40:19 billymg: winter only a few months away now
3bfbbbb007a2bfb9…07a2bfb9…2023-07-01 17:17:06 <signpost> reqs on the host system are minimal but not zero
7a86572f1a4e62ba…1a4e62ba…2022-08-31 13:06:37 <phf> “ Unfortunately, however, non-PDF versions have also appeared, against my recommendations, and those versions are frankly quite awful. A great deal of expertise and care is necessary to do the job right. If you have been misled into purchasing one of these inferior versions (for example, a Kindle edition), the publishers
467e29b551f02314…51f02314…2022-09-02 14:57:12 <phf> of "oiling", more like giving leather richer tone
073eb9cdf01d690f…e89af67b…2022-09-03 03:58:07 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-02 vex: thats my guesstimate to what slowed up your server room. fridge guys. ug
d35017b4f01d690f…f01d690f…2022-09-03 04:56:31 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-02#1012091 << I'll defo look at picking some up, I've got a couple belts that need a little bit of love aswell
a65d499c421547cc…390248db…2022-08-30 18:06:05 <billymg> asciilifeform: what's doubly painful about that one is that the slow decline in btc balance visible in the chart is them dumping 2% annually as their "management fee"
c0d42b937a86572f…7a86572f…2022-08-31 13:06:37 <phf> have told me that they will replace your copy with the PDF edition that I have personally approved. Do not purchase eTAOCP in Kindle format if you expect the mathematics to make sense. (The ePUB format may be just as bad; I really don't want to know, and I am really sorry that it was released.)”
93f33eb1467e29b5…467e29b5…2022-09-02 14:59:09 <phf> pretty much every treatment darkens leather, because it's inherent to the process. with quality leather it's not going to be like you went from brown to black, usually it just gets richer, deeper
6df799fcd35017b4…073eb9cd…2022-09-03 04:57:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-02 10:57:45 phf[awt]: i bought my first "proper" leather boots a decade ago at a hippie boots store in ashville, nc and they suggested this stuff https://www.obenaufs.com/heavy-duty-lp-p/leather-preservative-paste.htm which is what i've been using on my more expensive leather, and also horse tack and it d
e3bbe725a65d499c…a65d499c…2022-08-30 18:07:11 <billymg> trading currently at a ~32% discount relative to btc spot price
043b123db5979e45…3bfbbbb0…2023-07-01 17:21:53 <signpost> ah maybe they did the "everything in /usr" thing
ab3d2587c0d42b93…c0d42b93…2022-08-31 13:11:38 <phf> oh yeah, i forgot that they also watermark the pdf, which i'm sure is done in the most aesthetically pleasing considered way, and not just an automated shit taken over a carefully crafted artifact
b990d60493f33eb1…93f33eb1…2022-09-02 15:07:24 <phf> actually i'm not sure about mink oil in general, i've been applying them to my cheap boots, but either from inexpensive leather, the arena sand abrasion, or mink oil being bad they developed cracks in the toe bend. i'm going to switch it to some other shit, probably obenaufs and see if it improves the situation
d6270b176df799fc…accb0195…2022-09-03 18:45:38 <asciilifeform> dunno re all this oil notions, ancestral su army belt never oiled and loox a-ok lol
95176596deab9724…deab9724…2022-09-06 22:07:37 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-05#1012201 << neat link. atm currently have all major ingredients of biodiesel; methanol, sodium hydroxide lye, veggie oil. look forward to a writeup when I get around to actually ~doing~ it
c72a5d8de3bbe725…98fcdac4…2022-08-30 20:24:01 <asciilifeform> billymg: considering that the ~whole point! of such schemes is to dampen btc...
dcd3a9ff043b123d…b5979e45…2023-07-01 17:25:52 <awt_akris> Sorry, I was incorrect, there in fact is a /bin/bash on my system.
4c57152aab3d2587…6495113d…2022-08-31 14:52:06 <asciilifeform> phf: the only warez of taocp asciilifeform ever had was that shit scan
2df73c8bb990d604…477b1eea…2022-09-02 15:16:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-02#1012077 << normally yes, lol, but atm still at old house
a159853d0e63d8f0…fb750003…2022-09-06 21:49:54 <asciilifeform> signpost: the 'where seekrit milk for btc?' thing is example of larger unsolved mega-boojum, where folx who actually sow/reap/milk cows are (justifiably!) suspicious of complicated electronics and won't touch (unintermediated) btc with barge pole
42d6b71495176596…95a52e84…2022-09-06 22:08:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-05 20:13:28 billymg: re: diesel, was checking these guys out recently: https://www.springboardbiodiesel.com/
c0372c5e95176596…95176596…2022-09-06 22:09:19 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform ofc, but would like to get the chemistry down pat before dumps vat of dirty oil into tank
a029ea04c72a5d8d…9dcdc3ea…2022-08-30 21:20:07 <signpost> at this point the dampening scheme appears to apply to every fake asset, whether discussing goxbtc or gox401k
1dc5d1b2dcd3a9ff…043b123d…2023-07-01 17:44:01 <signpost> running it over here on a bleeding edge gentoo
f98ce9424c57152a…4c57152a…2022-08-31 14:54:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012014 << asciilifeform freely admits to having seriously eaten such sections as were relevant to things he was doing at the time; most recently ffaism
e89af67b2df73c8b…c2acac35…2022-09-02 15:16:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-02 00:10:06 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012022 << why not hardcopy? i suspect you have them within hand reach
35fa1817a159853d…a159853d…2022-09-06 21:52:00 <asciilifeform> ... so yer moar or less stuck with programmers selling ??? to ea.other
44d01c5d42d6b714…3b6d101a…2022-09-06 22:08:30 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: thought it was obv., but is only remotely +ev if other people give you the 'bio'
870dd5cec0372c5e…c0372c5e…2022-09-06 22:10:33 <crtdaydreams> sure can preheat and strain, but over time quickly will clog injectors
e798a28e1dc5d1b2…1dc5d1b2…2023-07-01 17:44:41 <signpost> had to emerge dpkg but otherwise works fine
05e88c7cf98ce942…bf7cfd61…2022-08-31 14:55:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 08:54:01 phf[awt]: i'll go out on a limb and say that i suspect that not a single digital copy of taocp that's circulating in pirate version has ever been read, and that it's all larp and chan style hoarding “got some lit warez bro, makes you smart”
fe7291f4e89af67b…2df73c8b…2022-09-02 15:17:10 <asciilifeform> the linked mechanized knuth actually pretty handy, on acct of the indices. had nfi that it existed until phf mentioned
03c05451b19be4a7…9565beb4…2022-09-03 20:04:06 <awt> Will have to recruit new members here to actually test in the wild
50a5ffc435fa1817…35fa1817…2022-09-06 21:52:18 <asciilifeform> (+ a population of chumps who think they 'use bitcoin' because they made a gox acct)
14e6b4449a4529f9…5eb4378b…2022-08-30 21:31:32 <awt> debasement is on hold: https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact/status/1564427614692966400
76f1a472e798a28e…e798a28e…2023-07-01 17:44:55 <signpost> might consider putting -x in a few of the scripts and seeing where it's barfing
9940099d03c05451…d6270b17…2022-09-03 21:49:04 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform can test on a shite gsm modem
9692e86550a5ffc4…50a5ffc4…2022-09-06 21:53:50 asciilifeform suspects that if e.g. rifle required a <=100nm ic die, with GB+ of ???, farmers etc would arm selves with crossbows and call it a day
a37ccccea8cf5bdb…8e4f20ad…2022-09-06 22:11:50 <asciilifeform> folx truly serious about oddball 'mad max' fuels oughta look into 'external combustion engine' imho (i.e. steam cycle)
37935950a8cf5bdb…a8cf5bdb…2022-09-06 22:12:35 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: am fully aware, but then wai not just gassifier?
330dc5c914e6b444…9a4529f9…2022-08-30 21:34:59 <signpost> fake assets I said though, not fake currencies
e2c17bfe76f1a472…76f1a472…2023-07-01 17:45:02 <signpost> if you can get it to enter the chroot should be home free
c8d93a8583faa29a…83faa29a…2022-08-31 14:55:47 <asciilifeform> the 'cover to cover' read -- saving for prison...
80106cff9940099d…9940099d…2022-09-03 21:49:30 <asciilifeform> ( got 1 of those things with an ethernet jack and antennae , eats 2 simcards )
73c8d5b69692e865…9692e865…2022-09-06 21:55:46 <asciilifeform> 'decentralized protocol' has limited 'teeth' if can only run on ultra-centralizing substrate, is the sad thing.
8ff340e99692e865…9589ccd2…2022-09-06 21:56:00 <signpost> perhaps all the ways are closed. dying next to an art project isn't so bad.
7537865c37935950…37935950…2022-09-06 22:12:53 <crtdaydreams> far less waste energy with gassification
fe4dfbbc37935950…8f23d9e8…2022-09-06 22:16:37 <billymg> crtdaydreams: according to linked site the fuel their machine produces can go into unmodified diesel engines, and be mixed at any ratio with pump-bought diesel
a8ffa543330dc5c9…330dc5c9…2022-08-30 21:36:10 <signpost> the fake currency has to be strong for the buying the banker fucks are going to be doing somewhere in the next 6-12mos
07c84dffe2c17bfe…e2c17bfe…2023-07-01 17:45:19 <signpost> sucks how the world drifts and breaks things like this, but it does.
b932a45dc8d93a85…c8d93a85…2022-08-31 15:00:06 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012020 << lulzily/apropos not long ago asciilifeform for 1st time in life actually 'bought pdf' of an obscure item where could not find warez at all; found riotously insulting that the author must've ocr'd and never bothered to fix the obv barf !
016ef09294d9e8ad…94d9e8ad…2022-09-02 17:10:11 <asciilifeform> and, decadently, pdf on chinese eink box weighs 10x less than the real thing, easier to read in bed lol
95a52e8473c8d5b6…fbd75785…2022-09-06 21:56:21 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-04-17 asciilifeform: it's the most massively centralized industry that exists. there are actually moar independent satellite launchers than e.g. <= 70nm fabs.
570559158ff340e9…657210a2…2022-09-06 21:56:45 <phf> but i'm mostly sniping, don't otherwise have a point
0b9870787537865c…8ad43963…2022-09-06 22:13:12 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: in finland until '70s was not uncommon to see 'gasenwagen' with potbelly stove welded to back
ed3b06437537865c…7537865c…2022-09-06 22:14:28 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: yup, in europistan had them all throughout WW2 when fuel supply became scarcity
2d29c092a8ffa543…a8ffa543…2022-08-30 21:39:00 <signpost> awt: what do you think the interest rate cut excuse is going to be?
82486bdb07c84dff…07c84dff…2023-07-01 17:46:10 <signpost> shinohai: curious if you hit what awt did when you built.
c6aa9719b932a45d…05e88c7c…2022-08-31 15:00:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 09:12:10 phf[awt]: oh yeah, i forgot that they also watermark the pdf, which i'm sure is done in the most aesthetically pleasing considered way, and not just an automated shit taken over a carefully crafted artifact
31e28413016ef092…016ef092…2022-09-02 17:14:20 asciilifeform found himself reading #4 'in order', and observed an interesting detail: unlike most usa maffs authors, knuth not reluctant to cite worx from su , and as far back as '20s
1acc888d57055915…73c8d5b6…2022-09-06 21:57:04 <asciilifeform> phf: for that matter there aint all that many places where can make e.g. 308 shell to spec. (considerably harder than to make what to load it into)
cc9db2dfed3b0643…4a56406e…2022-09-06 22:15:47 <asciilifeform> steam -- simpler, mechanically, and -- with sumthing resembling modern machining -- with turbine, ~similarly efficient to the carburetted 'ice'
15f760af82486bdb…7e3af59b…2023-07-01 17:47:41 <shinohai> Nope, never had that issue. Pentacle built flawless for me (but on Gentoo, never PoopOS).
3a0f76ec31e28413…31e28413…2022-09-02 17:15:40 <asciilifeform> ... and cites originals, not translations (does he know ru??)
fda601c641260c5a…17562d4f…2022-09-04 16:44:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-03#1012123 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3x4M3yqzZk ru army leather requires a different conditioner
704785254a56406e…a9ce2abf…2022-09-06 22:13:23 <phf> apropos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyTqo4mCUUY
5aef4c1ecc9db2df…6a0956f9…2023-07-05 01:32:38 <awt_akris> Wow. Just discovered that blatta's netchain tracking is utterly retarded.
9ab52cf4a54d8775…cc9db2df…2022-09-06 22:17:48 <asciilifeform> ( the traditional and incurable minus of steam aint 'inefficient' but 'slow to revv', 'how will you blitzkrieg on a steam zundapp!', which theoretically curable with 'electro hybrid' setup..)
e7b1da9f66d035e4…4cc3161f…2022-08-30 22:01:14 shinohai orders a PizzaHut pan pizza in his honor ....
5a52c16915f760af…82486bdb…2023-07-01 17:58:19 <signpost> at some point I'll just break and sign a build
768e9cc073300592…73300592…2022-08-31 15:03:35 <asciilifeform> worth to mention also the fact that he evidently formatted via microshit , with the characteristic ugh of broken-up tables etc
5c9aa54b3a0f76ec…05a96a2f…2022-09-02 17:20:06 <awt> I have downloaded all 4 volumes. I will put them on my remarkable2 and NEVER read them. Consider them hoarded.
a0d99168fda601c6…6df799fc…2022-09-04 16:44:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-03 14:46:11 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|crawlerbot|billymg]: dunno re all this oil notions, ancestral su army belt never oiled and loox a-ok lol
8d84d5977318b588…57055915…2022-09-06 21:57:47 <phf> it's a shame that a particular cut of job of the glorious leader left some otherwise important problems outside of scope. "the amish can talk to me on this here #trilema channel"
983a31095aef4c1e…5aef4c1e…2023-07-05 01:35:56 <awt_akris> For example, while syncing, it will just use whatever the latest getdata message hash was for the netchain when an operator sends a message. Could be anything.
fb85a3e15fbb8420…5fbb8420…2022-09-07 10:30:01 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012359 << handle is "crt"daydreams, not "steampunk"daydreams
0459007d5a52c169…5a52c169…2023-07-01 17:58:52 <signpost> would really like multiple paths to that binary, but it's becoming a bit autistic at this point.
af170671768e9cc0…768e9cc0…2022-08-31 15:05:02 <asciilifeform> normally could throw such thing in rubbish and fughet, but this piece was re a subj on which the texts can be counted on fingers of 1 hand; and, annoyingly, by far the best
5d0be4175c9aa54b…cd757bc9…2022-09-02 18:36:39 <phf> remarkable2 pdf support is abysmal, so it's a perfect combo of unusable and unused. excellent job!
12da4abf983a3109…a4ea3036…2023-07-05 02:56:06 <asciilifeform> lol! might explain the oddly unfetchable historic msgs
f163f699fb85a3e1…42d6b714…2022-09-07 10:30:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 18:16:22 asciilifeform[5]: steam -- simpler, mechanically, and -- with sumthing resembling modern machining -- with turbine, ~similarly efficient to the carburetted 'ice'
5b9ec163fb85a3e1…fb85a3e1…2022-09-07 10:31:05 <crtdaydreams> in all rationale though, defo merit for i.e. boiler-powered workshop using old skool belts and pulleys
f3edde335d0be417…5c9aa54b…2022-09-02 19:40:33 <awt> phf: you're right. iirc doesn't support links in pdfs.
c54039cb12473c95…12473c95…2023-07-01 18:43:00 <awt> I am aware this totally defeats the purpose of building on iron
5659d432f3edde33…5d0be417…2022-09-02 19:46:40 <phf> does it support search or outline? before i handed it over to girl, i investigated it briefly, and my impression was that it was just a dumb page renderer, with nothing else
8485c04b5779b70a…5779b70a…2022-09-06 21:58:58 <asciilifeform> phf: iirc when pressed, turned episodically into 'they can talk to my vast network of spy-emissaries'
5c8d1b605779b70a…7c4a905b…2022-09-06 21:59:00 <signpost> as I let that one continue to digest, eh, the prophet yields to no one.
1bd7850ad41c98e0…7a1ed307…2025-11-20 20:16:47 <s1gnp0st> meanwhile hold onto your butts. deflationary bust?
22cbac13decc7098…decc7098…2022-09-07 10:32:47 <crtdaydreams> but then again, wai mess with steam machine wen perfectly good D7 in shed that can last over9000 hours
a8936f4c5659d432…f3edde33…2022-09-02 20:58:24 <awt> phf: search, yes. not sure what you mean by outline.
608156d95c8d1b60…5c8d1b60…2022-09-06 21:59:14 <signpost> later the zealots compromise the thing until it's actionable.
0cbedb8522cbac13…22cbac13…2022-09-07 10:33:49 <crtdaydreams> be better off using the water for e.g. electrolysis
3983ca6c608156d9…8485c04b…2022-09-06 21:59:15 <asciilifeform> 'let mountain come to muhammed'(tm)(r)(c)
46d97b770cbedb85…0cbedb85…2022-09-07 10:35:01 <crtdaydreams> or better yet; Drink it. Fresh water might be scarcity in apocalypse
d73e37e4463a88a7…463a88a7…2023-07-01 19:24:30 <signpost> I thought debootstrap ran on it own but nope
5678805946d97b77…46d97b77…2022-09-07 10:35:42 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012365 << why car? why not balloon?
ed1da7edd73e37e4…15f760af…2023-07-02 03:18:28 <shinohai> awt: mebbe would work with gentoo stage3 from mnt/, then you could say "Yo dawg, I heard you like chroots so I built you a chroot inside your chroot!"
21d853a8bd1c9bd6…bd1c9bd6…2022-09-02 21:06:06 signpost bought a remarkable but went straight back to paper.
2f4fb32d194adb31…194adb31…2022-09-06 22:01:22 <phf> signpost, damn, what a missed opportunity of "risen from the sea!"
789e07dc56788059…f163f699…2022-09-07 10:36:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 20:53:49 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|crawlerbot|billymg]: ( laff, but occasional crackpot actually proposes 'compressed air car' in earnest. 'folx who can't do arithmetic are doomed to talk nonsense'(tm)(r)(jmc) )
bd8dfdfd56788059…56788059…2022-09-07 10:38:17 <crtdaydreams> perhaps merit to steam with complexity, could make on home lathe & mill if in a pinch
6cb2022ded1da7ed…00000000…2023-07-02 15:53:12 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-01#1027975 << canonical place for vtools is http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools, but it has two problems at the moment a) it strongly follows tmsr model, which even survivining people don't really follow anymore b) it's not been up SvZ ұ-oDlC=29:dPg
5defab2e21d853a8…d0f14d91…2022-09-02 21:27:22 <asciilifeform> 'onyx' (the ones w/ turdroid) do support, with the obv caveats
a9eda67bbd8dfdfd…bd8dfdfd…2022-09-07 10:39:25 <crtdaydreams> will always have shit to burn and water to boil
21f47c086cb2022d…6cb2022d…2023-07-02 15:53:12 <phf> dated with the patches that were produced by third parties after i quit tmsr, and that i haven't had a chance to integrate. cursory look those patches are of dubious quality, but they are included with e.g. pentacle SvZ ұ-oDlC=29:dPg
accb01955defab2e…5defab2e…2022-09-02 21:32:45 asciilifeform likes to flip around in a text 'a la bibliomancy' which epapertrons will prolly never support satisfyingly. dun mean they're 100% useless imho tho
db102880a9eda67b…a9eda67b…2022-09-07 10:44:09 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-06#1012368 << what like cap? not sure what adding a tank would do, there's a finite potential to which you can store superheated pressurized steam efficiently
0e77568321f47c08…897a01fc…2023-07-02 15:53:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-01 10:33:16 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Where is the best place to get ahold of phf's V these days? I have it, but I'm attempting to document the installation process for the new station and would like to link to a V.
0870898566919590…2f4fb32d…2022-09-06 22:02:42 <phf> thrice foam-reborn, primordial foam, foam of the confusion of the peoples, and finally the sea foam
c07578bfdb102880…789e07dc…2022-09-07 10:44:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 21:05:50 jonsykkel: im joking, but jokes aside, u would have the steam engine + tank to solve the slow to revv problem. why wouldnt that work
3739f8bfdb102880…db102880…2022-09-07 10:45:55 <crtdaydreams> all it would do is allow you to continue running for a little bit after the boiler has cooled
2c1237eb0e775683…21f47c08…2023-07-02 15:57:20 <phf> a and b here are tied together. so the tmsr approach and the position was that you don't integrate patches without having read and understood them. something like a tarball of source as some people started doing on their blogs, or a semi-automatic approach where patch press is invi S2I'#ܽP;?}Ŋc
ebfebae03739f8bf…3739f8bf…2022-09-07 10:47:42 <crtdaydreams> there's a finite linear expansion coefficient and thermal conductivity
e59543b72c1237eb…2c1237eb…2023-07-02 15:57:20 <phf> sible to the user like in pentacle were both originally seen as invalid approaches S2I'#ܽP;?}Ŋc
676cd06017562d4f…5fc97130…2022-09-03 00:11:34 <awt> phf: there's no special view for the toc, but tapping on a heading in the toc takes you to the chapter.
a9ce2abf5e9e86a6…08708985…2022-09-06 22:04:23 <phf> hehe, i knew which one it was before even clicking
5f3d2acee59543b7…e59543b7…2023-07-02 15:57:53 <phf> because both kind of defeat the purpose of vpatches as being standalone literate artifacts
f6d2cb795f3d2ace…d73e37e4…2023-07-02 15:58:02 <signpost> don't know that I agree at all with "invisible" here.
277b047ef6d2cb79…5f3d2ace…2023-07-02 15:59:34 <phf> so the original ideological position was that you kind of need to understand the press, the order in the press, and having read each individual patch, you choose conciously to apply said patches
f2d1c210277b047e…277b047e…2023-07-02 16:00:59 <phf> so that was how btcbase/patches presentation was modeled. it doesn't make it trivial to grab the whole spitoon, instead you look at the press tree, patch after patch, download them as you understanding of the tree becomes refined
f9da2131f2d1c210…f2d1c210…2023-07-02 16:02:18 <phf> but of course that's not convenient when you "just want to" run vtools, so people started packing vtools into tarballs on their blogs. "you need vtools to compile my widget!! and here's a tarball of vtools, don't think about it"
4b681017e7ac3cfc…e7ac3cfc…2022-09-08 03:25:42 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-07#1012570 << mspaint is literally goto wen want to explain something
d365e776f9da2131…f6d2cb79…2023-07-02 16:03:25 <signpost> this is all pretty rude, and rooted in MP's sadism fetishes. the src tree is meant to be individually curated, but obviously needs to at least contain with what to self-build.
2408ca344b681017…9fddcc39…2022-09-08 03:26:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-07 23:24:29 jonsykkel: at least thats wat proof by mspaint says http://zzz.st/up/PJvbnNoR/20220908_052234.png
6546f40511e006ca…11e006ca…2022-09-08 08:10:54 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-04-05#1092901 << came back to thread in search of russian lit reccommendations, but reminded of short convo had today regarding mowing lawns; the concept of using a scythe to mow is completely alien to most now, even though it comes with the extreme benefit of being able to gather
29c672c6521effe7…521effe7…2023-07-02 16:06:29 <phf> fwiw awt asked for "phf's vtools", but what's in pentacle is not phf's vtools, because it has a bunch of patches that were added later by people that i don't know, and that i don't think anybody has actually read. i'm giving a background on this sad state of things.
4fec401b6546f405…6546f405…2022-09-08 08:10:54 <crtdaydreams> up all the seed and burn it without spreading it, and over time eliminate weeds
341cf4246546f405…2408ca34…2022-09-08 08:11:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-05 phf: i started reflecting on this as a result of two things: i reread a handful of classic russian literature books, war and piece, hero of our time by lermontov, some tolstoy short stories, that kind of stuff, and i started riding in earnest, and i sort of realized that our distance from our qui
02d5936d29c672c6…29c672c6…2023-07-02 16:09:37 <phf> and by read, i mean that later patches for vtools were made by bvt, and in order to press vtools, people just throw bvt's signature into sigs folder and call it a day. presumably to make the result "phf's vtools" one should harrass me to review the code, and sign it myself, which w 9Æ0 ڕ5gqbY
ba7f2e1e4fec401b…4fec401b…2022-09-08 08:10:56 <crtdaydreams> within a given lawn, can also mow when wet and cut around trees and lawn edges without damaging the bark on the trees or needing another machine to do the job. also dun matter how high the grass is etc...
580ba9e302d5936d…02d5936d…2023-07-02 16:09:37 <phf> ould be the V way of doing things. or sign the code with own sigs and then the answer is "well, there's phf's vtools, but it's missing some later additions. if you want to use trinque's vtools, i've read phf's and bvt's patches, and made my own signatures and you can use that inste 9Æ0 ڕ5gqbY
b7139a2eba7f2e1e…ba7f2e1e…2022-09-08 08:38:51 <crtdaydreams> would also be interested in comfy ru web reading material (if exists?)
10507978b7139a2e…8049eb7a…2022-09-08 13:05:27 <PeterL> awt: so, what happens if my IRC client is not connected when blatta receives a message? Shouldn't I get a bunch of old messages when I connect?
443fa0b110507978…43fb9d18…2022-09-08 15:20:42 <awt> PeterL: that would fix the problem, but I would prefer not to put any more effort into hacks supporting the IRC interface.
cf1ccb75d6861d60…745b7305…2022-09-08 22:32:56 <signpost> sorry about the noise. I loaded the shit out of the box that runs my pest station.
e78b8628d6861d60…d6861d60…2022-09-09 00:13:58 <crtdaydreams> signpost: what didja do? fork bomb yourself?
a0e26d53563a207f…d365e776…2023-07-02 16:13:24 <signpost> this cuts to the heart of the failed religion imho, for obvious reasons.
416fded8e78b8628…87977eb0…2022-09-09 02:08:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: fwiw over here saw only single reconnect ( deedbot's )
33f688fbe78b8628…e78b8628…2022-09-09 08:09:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-08#1012613 << rip boxen
b9429219a0e26d53…a0e26d53…2023-07-02 16:14:25 <signpost> one, you haven't bothered to look at the thing, or you'd have seen it's just a folder with a bunch of v-trees in it, and some scripts to denote the dependencies between them.
07046317b9ca271c…aa2012d7…2022-09-08 15:30:15 <asciilifeform> awt: for folx who aint living in emacs, irc will probably be the only pest ui for rather long time
1810490d416fded8…cf1ccb75…2022-09-09 02:34:14 <signpost> crtdaydreams: nah, distcc job that fell back to the puny box in question.
c394978c33f688fb…e750f662…2022-09-09 08:09:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-08 22:34:50 signpost: crtdaydreams: nah, distcc job that fell back to the puny box in question.
ccad074233f688fb…33f688fb…2022-09-09 08:11:11 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-09#1012615 << kinky
cdcb9564b9429219…b9429219…2023-07-02 16:15:31 <signpost> two, if we're going to pull out "just want to", let's pull in "and anyway" from the anal child, because even if you had, it'd violate the religion in some other way.
a7fc926fb9429219…563a207f…2023-07-02 16:15:33 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-02#1028040 << maybe try and understand my point instead of seeing is as some kind of slight and affront to your work
00614913b9429219…ed1da7ed…2023-07-02 16:17:15 <shinohai> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8Ba20Q_OY
14311dad1810490d…1810490d…2022-09-09 02:34:44 <signpost> asciilifeform: ah ok, over here I saw everyone else join/part/etc, thought that meant I was doing the same outbound.
7ec61020ccad0742…c394978c…2022-09-09 08:11:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-09 01:29:16 jonsykkel: anyone preordered yet https://en.shiftall.net/products/mutalk
6e35ce29ccad0742…ccad0742…2022-09-10 02:35:50 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: the easiest way to make surviving in vr more appealing is to make living otherwise unbearable
cd7eca13a7fc926f…0e775683…2023-07-02 16:15:34 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:14:35 signpost[asciilifeform]: one, you haven't bothered to look at the thing, or you'd have seen it's just a folder with a bunch of v-trees in it, and some scripts to denote the dependencies between them.
c4f120b2a7fc926f…cdcb9564…2023-07-02 16:16:01 <signpost> the inability to make incremental gains in that period is worth calling out.
e750f662b59cdad4…341cf424…2022-09-08 15:31:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-08 20:04:36 asciilifeform[billymg]: would still like an integrated client where cut&paste work (i.e. xorg proggy) but not expects any time soon, is over9000 sweat
e6ca47fe7ec61020…10507978…2022-09-09 14:48:47 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-09#1012615 << I should get one of these for each of my coworkers, then I wouldn't have to hear them loudly talking to people on confrence calls while I am trying to concentrate
646541266e35ce29…6e35ce29…2022-09-10 02:40:29 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: 10x10 pixel cube for you! expansion pack is only $49.99/10sq pixels
3fa40e0dcd7eca13…624978d5…2023-07-02 16:20:57 <signpost> to put a finer point on it, if awt wants to package his thing for normies, I'd build a static bin of it, and sign that. nobody's going to be enrolled in the religion that doesn't already have the inclination. and probably no one that happens to use it will check the signature.
624978d5c4f120b2…c4f120b2…2023-07-02 16:16:44 <signpost> I've been trying to beat people out of this "well it builds on *my* pile of driftwood and cum socks" for years.
48c3cab7e750f662…b9ca271c…2022-09-08 15:31:37 <awt> Undoubtedly. Can still be hacked off from blatta and be its own thing.
bd61c3d3e6ca47fe…7ec61020…2022-09-09 14:49:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-09 01:29:16 jonsykkel: anyone preordered yet https://en.shiftall.net/products/mutalk
953897f53fa40e0d…3fa40e0d…2023-07-02 16:21:42 <signpost> oughta make the thing into distributed telegram.
b89694e3bd61c3d3…e6ca47fe…2022-09-09 14:52:07 <PeterL> but really, like people say "1984 is not an instruction manual", now we should also say "Wall-E is not an instruction manual"!
8cd9e64a0822c695…0822c695…2022-09-10 07:44:08 <crtdaydreams> need help; I compiled a gentoo kernel on a different system through chroot and installing the drive into the system I want to work with it doesn't boot (need to run grub on this system I presume), but cannot chroot, getting "illegal instruction
ad101823953897f5…953897f5…2023-07-02 16:27:15 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=GC5y << explain to me what is invisible here.
0d2c4c285b7604b6…48c3cab7…2022-09-08 15:34:13 <awt> re: address cast, when you see your pals online via hearsay, could manually blast out an AC to hook up at that time.
91f0fd1e8cd9e64a…101accfd…2022-09-10 13:26:20 <shinohai> crtdaydreams: didja compile for wrong arch? That's first thing that comes to mind for me with "illegal instruction" errors.
f572bfb28cd9e64a…8cd9e64a…2022-09-10 23:38:53 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: herm, I wouldn't think so? I compiled for amd64 on amd64
9be7a907ad101823…ad101823…2023-07-02 16:28:56 <signpost> that tree *is* the interface the operator is meant to curate. take out all the keys and patches you like.
c461fa620d2c4c28…0d2c4c28…2022-09-08 15:34:49 <awt> or simply set a trigger to broadcast AC when hearsay messages from cold peers show up
12f3e1e7f572bfb2…f572bfb2…2022-09-10 23:40:08 <crtdaydreams> I tried twice with different images (void & gentoo) on the target system, got to chroot phase, same issue.
bdb5fd299be7a907…9be7a907…2023-07-02 16:37:51 <signpost> guy will spray piss in all directions declaring himself the one true adherent to a thing he quit, and then when *gently* challenged disappears.
8448b90a12f3e1e7…12f3e1e7…2022-09-10 23:40:51 <crtdaydreams> I'm going to try chrooting on my desktop, if that doesn't work I'd say my build is screwed
7a0bf463bdb5fd29…52cc6a07…2023-07-02 16:42:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: he did have a point tho. ( per mp's original ex cathedra iirc this knot was supposed to be cut by 'i'm signing with my shit-i-havent-read-cuz-itd-take-over9000-years key' , but no one, mp incl., actually did this at any pt )
7215d4e3f8fc4768…f8fc4768…2022-09-08 15:38:14 <asciilifeform> the one serious minus is that it relies on the stranded peer to actually speak
99dc6bc1963eed71…416fded8…2022-09-10 15:34:37 <asciilifeform> billymg: lol loox like your bot not in #a ? ( just as BB returned )
4d16cac27a0bf463…7a0bf463…2023-07-02 16:44:39 asciilifeform suspects that the correct pill here would be to resurrect the cl vtools, as shinohai tried to do, but 'over9000 years', asciilifeform still using the 'dirty' one discussed above
94d4e9ef7215d4e3…7215d4e3…2022-09-08 15:38:45 <asciilifeform> and therefore folx who rarely speak, will remain stranded for long periods, and not participate in helping other members of net to escape nat
dcdefc9299dc6bc1…2894d34c…2022-09-10 15:41:02 <shinohai> asciilifeform: Plz send my regards to BB, unable to connect to dulap presently, using mobile pest only.
1541ae49e5c8dece…eaddd0a8…2022-09-11 03:40:00 <dulapbot> BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-09-10 10:53:51: Assume narrow escapes. Hardware forfeit as abandoned seems a safe and far assumption. Brain may not be what it used to. Not much more than trying to build life outside of Mars dome restrictions
4df39a4f4d16cac2…bdb5fd29…2023-07-02 16:45:27 <signpost> it's too bad I didn't find time in the multiple years I worked on that item to read any patches.
c8935a5394d4e9ef…94d4e9ef…2022-09-08 15:39:53 <asciilifeform> imho ideally pestron oughta proactively work to stay properly connected to peers, regardless of how often operator speaks
6a903ef74df39a4f…00614913…2023-07-02 16:46:04 <shinohai> cl vtools is very reliable, even made a Makefile for it.
61e60d0ec8935a53…c461fa62…2022-09-08 15:41:35 <awt> Yes. I suppose the pill for the reticent would be a periodic "here I am" broadcast message type that isn't written to the console.
f9e1d84ff3e693a8…fe4dfbbc…2022-09-10 17:08:16 <billymg> asciilifeform: ah, not intentional. from logs looks like it lost its connection to dulapnet, reconnected, but then didn't rejoin #a
c205bee46a903ef7…4d16cac2…2023-07-02 16:46:38 <asciilifeform> shinohai: thrd wasn't , as asciilifeform understands, about 'reliable' tho
1e12bba961e60d0e…c8935a53…2022-09-08 15:42:02 <asciilifeform> the nat escape mechanism is an archaetypical 'bundle of straw', i.e. stronger over9000 together than any one part
00cf1d36f9e1d84f…f9e1d84f…2022-09-10 17:09:08 billymg finally caught the vid. nothing terrible but slept like shit last night
844d96c6c205bee4…4df39a4f…2023-07-02 16:48:31 signpost had about enough of the hypocrisy of folks doing most of their work in a clang built by apple, then coming along to say the bootstrap process for a vintage gcc was done sinfully.
0082455a00cf1d36…00cf1d36…2022-09-10 17:10:26 billymg will get the #a bot back up soon and backfill missed messages from nsa logs
11c182467a162675…d29561c8…2022-09-11 18:41:39 <awt> 9972 sig: includes address cast support and a fix for the bug in which long messages are truncated instead of broken up into smaller messages.
dcd33d44b925d7d9…b925d7d9…2022-09-12 22:12:22 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeforms and thimbronions ips are changing almost every minute
8684b86f844d96c6…c205bee4…2023-07-02 16:49:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027621 << per asciilifeform , the correct pill for this entire class of problem is this , but we still aint got it ( asciilifeform's -- 'hands too short' , other folx did make attempts, most recently: [http://zzz.st/p
ee5d1a44dcd33d44…dcd33d44…2022-09-12 22:12:50 <crtdaydreams> notsure if result of as discussed above, but certainly not a feature
82b246aa8684b86f…cd7eca13…2023-07-02 16:49:14 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-17 asciilifeform: mangol: what's imho needed is a fully 'autarkik' scripting lang, which sucks in 0 shitlibs and runs, like 'M', on any extant pc iron under all linuxen from past ~15y
d6eeab138684b86f…8684b86f…2023-07-02 16:49:14 <asciilifeform> rogz/#tunalisp][jonsykkel] , but it's a long ways off )
10a2cd088684b86f…cfea9f47…2023-07-02 16:50:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:03:58 phf[4]: but of course that's not convenient when you "just want to" run vtools, so people started packing vtools into tarballs on their blogs. "you need vtools to compile my widget!! and here's a tarball of vtools, don't think about it"
c76e023327ce1b40…27ce1b40…2022-09-08 15:57:19 <awt> Except there would only be 1 message broadcast instead of 1 per cold peer.
7b1b2039e9b797d0…f853e15c…2022-09-10 18:06:10 <signpost> crtdaydreams: yeah, that would mean one's arm and one's amd64, say.
bbbf859cee5d1a44…ee5d1a44…2022-09-12 22:13:27 <crtdaydreams> getting a lot of traffic from jonsykkel also
0723715310a2cd08…d6eeab13…2023-07-02 16:49:46 <asciilifeform> ... most recently: jonsykkel , but it's a long ways off )
14c1690ac76e0233…7b8c09f0…2022-09-08 17:38:24 <signpost> https://archive.ph/WBqWw << dorks in us.mil openly bragging about training ukrs on the Harpoon system in the US.
bbe719f67b1b2039…7b1b2039…2022-09-10 18:06:47 <signpost> if you're trying to prepare the disk image for arm on amd64, look into cross-compiling or a combo of qemu-user and distcc.
75acb65607237153…6a903ef7…2023-07-02 16:50:06 <shinohai> "reliable" for me meaning I don't hafta scratch head wondering what patches I need and don't from 7`248 different ex-tmsr blogs.
3bf3b80014c1690a…14c1690a…2022-09-08 17:42:10 <signpost> "Clarification: A Pentagon spokesperson said Bill LaPlante did not mean to say that Ukrainians were trained in the United States."
4f09f3f70853b7e6…e3de741a…2022-09-12 22:31:29 asciilifeform noticed that blatta nao takes ~10sec to respond to at cmd
0ec3295875acb656…07237153…2023-07-02 16:50:58 <asciilifeform> shinohai: rright, but you can prolly see how this kinda thing threatens to throw out what little progress we made in re civilized ecosystem
20c3cc2c3bf3b800…3bf3b800…2022-09-08 17:45:07 signpost recently read Unrestricted Warfare, mildly entertaining discussion of the then-upcoming hybrid war between china and US from 1998 from the cn perspective.
73657af5a0c55bb9…f3e693a8…2022-09-10 20:55:02 <awt> Address cast frequency debate seems to have petered off so I'm going to do a blatta release that brodcasts ac once randomly wihtin a configurable period defaulting to ~60s.
f0cee307ca4e9f7f…ca4e9f7f…2022-09-11 19:26:02 <awt> Last message types to implement (for blatta) are key offer and key slice. Honestly would wrather implement some kind of file storage/retrieval message types first.
622e9af04f09f3f7…4f09f3f7…2022-09-12 22:31:49 asciilifeform will prolly end up rolling back to prev patch
7e941ae8cd8c3760…622e9af0…2022-09-13 15:04:47 <asciilifeform> awt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-09-13#1113764 << bug rep
d19490f2cd8c3760…cd8c3760…2022-09-14 08:43:53 <crtdaydreams> signpost: a curiosity with the wot site, for whatever reason the graph svg is overflowing onto the whole page rendering links inoperable, I don't know if it's a me problem or something with the site generation
bb597baa0ec32958…0ec32958…2023-07-02 16:51:53 <asciilifeform> 'grab this tarball, build, run' is precisely what the monkeys do. notion was to distinguish selves from the apes
9b08fbc720c3cc2c…20c3cc2c…2022-09-08 17:45:19 <signpost> contextualizes the present conflict pretty well.
a9b3bea1f0cee307…1ed8da07…2022-09-11 19:26:50 <asciilifeform> '# if the signature checks out for a peer with no AT entry, decrypt' << is this comment accurate, i.e. only worx if there is no at entry at all? (or worx per spec on any 'cold' peer?)
d59f9b347e941ae8…068b8baf…2022-09-13 15:04:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: blatta/lib/client.py @ line 105
5af50e80d19490f2…d19490f2…2022-09-14 09:05:43 <crtdaydreams> fuck me, all this pest spamolade has tanked my data
52af31e5bb597baa…bb597baa…2023-07-02 16:52:19 asciilifeform as guilty as the rest, also had 'vtools tarballs' linx in e.g. ffa
bd4c2a5cbab25d6c…52af31e5…2023-07-02 16:52:50 <asciilifeform> problem is eminently solvable tho! and asciilifeform appreciates signpost's, jonsykkel's, et al. efforts to solve
21b1db7fa9b3bea1…f0cee307…2022-09-11 19:29:37 <awt> No that comment isn't accurate. It checks all peers with keys.
dba604b3f6ac5e6f…f6ac5e6f…2022-09-12 23:02:45 <awt> crtdaydreams: not entirely sure how ac is implemented in smalpest
5e39ddb1bd4c2a5c…bd4c2a5c…2023-07-02 16:53:46 <asciilifeform> it realy oughta be possible to bootstrap a readable vtron ( and w/out in the process having to bootstrap an entire linux, conceivably )
87977eb024f7a9c5…24f7a9c5…2022-09-08 17:59:32 <asciilifeform> ( previously ukrs were trained in canada, say )
dd6557a3896bd49a…896bd49a…2022-09-21 03:45:52 <crtdaydreams> generally, what do most folks have their address cast interval set to?
fd70265287977eb0…9b08fbc7…2022-09-08 18:03:45 <signpost> scurrying out a "did not mean to say" was entertaining.
0050f921c53dc16c…ed2209e3…2022-09-13 15:53:34 <awt> What a weird parallel universe where btc goes down on higher inflation.
7feecbf8dd6557a3…dd6557a3…2022-09-21 03:46:44 <crtdaydreams> also, unsure if bug or feature, but getting ~minimum~ 5 AC packets from all peers in short interval
14d683de220f12fd…97fc78c5…2022-09-22 15:54:16 <awt> https://www.nobsbitcoin.com/guatemalan-mining-cooking-oil/ billymg
92d8d536b34a4ce0…844d96c6…2023-07-02 16:55:54 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027642 << yes, in his hallucinated version of my distro he had a point.
745b7305fd702652…fd702652…2022-09-08 18:04:08 <signpost> obvious to anyone with a pulse we've been at "hybrid war" with both parties for a long time.
d100fbcc0050f921…7e941ae8…2022-09-13 15:54:26 <asciilifeform> awt: considering that the exch rate is made ~entirely of goxcoin -- unsurprise imho
88083c6e7feecbf8…7feecbf8…2022-09-21 03:47:56 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: tried increasing acint but still making 5 AC requests by the looks of it, which chewing up bandwidth, pestron making the requests almost every 10 seconds
fad788a414d683de…4a31ef9d…2022-09-22 16:02:29 <billymg> awt: pretty cool, also that there's another central american bitcoin community forming over there: "bitcoin lake"
dd93114192d8d536…10a2cd08…2023-07-02 16:57:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:44:32 asciilifeform[4]: signpost: he did have a point tho. ( per mp's original ex cathedra iirc this knot was supposed to be cut by 'i'm signing with my shit-i-havent-read-cuz-itd-take-over9000-years key' , but no one, mp incl., actually did this at any pt )
5ce3efa465fa0457…65fa0457…2022-09-11 20:03:13 <asciilifeform> decoding against warm peers only wastes cpu
4091037cd100fbcc…d100fbcc…2022-09-13 15:56:55 <asciilifeform> ( goxcoin being an inflationary artifact, entirely analogous to 'paper gold', imho rather obv )
c8b3133dfad788a4…fad788a4…2022-09-22 16:06:29 <billymg> also, took a while, but i'm finally back to feeling myself again after catching bill gates and klaus schwab's ["you will own nothing and be sick"][http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-10#1012640]
bcc8cbd1dd931141…92d8d536…2023-07-02 16:57:25 <signpost> there was no specific criticism other than "automated".
9e1acb325ce3efa4…5ce3efa4…2022-09-11 20:05:45 <asciilifeform> ( a warm peer, logically, at that moment knows yer addr/port and won't be firing off addrcast )
852026944091037c…0050f921…2022-09-13 17:52:19 <awt> prevailing explanation is that CPI is up because the covid response wrecked "supply chains," making the economy less productive, and everything more expensive.
dfc9870cee070529…ee070529…2022-09-21 03:54:00 <crtdaydreams> whats log output on your end look like? is my pestron blasting AC over9000 times a minute, also 10x'ed my prodint.
8ad26b05c8b3133d…5c049653…2022-09-22 16:03:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-10 13:05:43 billymg: finally caught the vid. nothing terrible but slept like shit last night
60e83a6abcc8cbd1…bcc8cbd1…2023-07-02 16:57:52 <signpost> okay, by the same token `v press` is sinful, and shouldn't be automated.
7fd2df049e1acb32…9e1acb32…2022-09-11 20:18:21 <asciilifeform> awt: does your latest blatta answer prod's correctly ? ( wasn't obv. to asciilifeform from reading the patch . the specful behaviour is that if receiving a prod where flag==0, one answers with anuther prod where flag==1. otherwise not answers)
f11666d0dfc9870c…dfc9870c…2022-09-21 03:56:52 crtdaydreams recalls jonsykkels pentagram diagram of net broadcasts
ca47d22b8ad26b05…c8b3133d…2022-09-22 16:07:33 <billymg> a very strange experience, can't say i enjoyed it
b99ec3f960e83a6a…60e83a6a…2023-07-02 17:03:50 <signpost> let's address the egotistical "baw my work" barb too. I do not want to waste my time with yet another "oh shit, nobody actually knows how anyone else's pile of garage-wars shit builds". I will not dedicate another minute of my life to that.
ad346fca20ccbe36…20ccbe36…2022-09-13 17:53:00 <asciilifeform> nuffin, naturally, to do with printer brrr, Officially
d2d69c70ca47d22b…ca47d22b…2022-09-22 16:08:25 <billymg> the main portion (body aches, chills) was over in a few days, then came down with what felt a lot like strep throat (for all i know, could've been)
be99fb7bb99ec3f9…b99ec3f9…2023-07-02 17:03:56 <signpost> I do not want to see *others* wasting their time with that!
45e97382ad346fca…85202694…2022-09-13 17:53:46 <awt> On another topic, I wonder if blatta was running slowly due to the slow serpent implementation.
a078e304e1aa262f…e1aa262f…2022-09-21 03:58:23 <crtdaydreams> exponentially proportional to size of net
595fd12cd2d69c70…d2d69c70…2022-09-22 16:10:31 <billymg> and then it lingered, for close to a week and a half. felt fatigued and disoriented, not like anything i remember from any other flu infections
ed1d66febe99fb7b…be99fb7b…2023-07-02 17:04:35 <signpost> nor wearing hair shirts and prostrating up and down for miles because it pleases some other idiot who thinks himself his better.
7005165245e97382…ad346fca…2022-09-13 17:54:16 <asciilifeform> awt: prolly contributes, tho afaik proximate cause was prod loop
fa0d9085595fd12c…595fd12c…2022-09-22 16:14:41 billymg will catch up on latest pest versions soon, and see how easy it would be to fix this
dd70d19e72145038…a0c55bb9…2022-09-11 21:29:10 <signpost> awt: fired it up, getting a spray of error log messages regarding a peer with duplicate address or handle id.
34ca93d8fa0d9085…8ad26b05…2022-09-22 16:11:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 15:26:31 asciilifeform[6]: btw billymg asciilifeform still sees horiz. scrollbar on above when reading via yer logger
d1496625f45e4c60…f45e4c60…2023-07-02 17:08:23 <signpost> and one final point. this vulgar habit of filling in all the blank space in the conversation with the lowest possible explanation ("he does not read patches") is a solvent. and it works.
a4a01772dd70d19e…dd70d19e…2022-09-11 21:29:45 <signpost> it's complaining about deedbot and crawlerbot
25a173cc34ca93d8…14d683de…2022-09-22 16:32:24 <awt> wow just started listening to a random synthwave playlist and Perturbator was on it. nb.
973ca8cdd1496625…b34a4ce0…2023-07-02 19:55:45 asciilifeform ftr not read the patches in question. so 'not throws 1st stone'
b5627a2aa4a01772…a4a01772…2022-09-11 21:30:26 <signpost> which have neither the same address in AT nor same handle
cc8f24db3569fecf…3569fecf…2022-09-13 17:56:16 <asciilifeform> sadly overwrote the dbg log, but still running that ver and expect will see again
c27ad763973ca8cd…973ca8cd…2023-07-02 19:57:17 <asciilifeform> signpost: there's a serious risk of 'conflating the warm and the soft': one wants proggy to 1) work 2) easy to build 3) make sense ('fit in head' ideally) . these reqs are in eternal tension; for so long as we're stuck on 40+yrs of idjitos/crashlang -- more or less incurably
f4e858b8973ca8cd…dcd3a9ff…2023-07-03 01:30:15 <awt_akris> well shit. I *was* incorrect in referring to the desired v as phf's, but at the same time wanted to acknowledge that it was based on his work, as when I started using it (yes from a tgz) I thought it was dianacoman's. I was not alone in doing so and can see how irksome that could be.
ed335a5eb5627a2a…084fdfbe…2022-09-11 21:38:26 <awt> signpost: I left that message in there as more of a warning. I believe the duplicate check was needed due to an earlier error in the way at entries were created, where handle ids would be almost randomly assigned
6aab80aacc8f24db…e14b0ba9…2022-09-13 20:31:36 <signpost> how would you expect inflation to directly drive BTC price up?
24322858581b9748…581b9748…2022-09-22 16:33:25 <awt> Sounds like you missed out on some skull-splitting headaches though.
a64e82aec27ad763…d1496625…2023-07-02 19:57:43 <signpost> I'm not going to tolerate phf popping off about me contributing to some kind of moral decline.
d124450ff4e858b8…f4e858b8…2023-07-03 01:34:37 <awt_akris> Also literally impossible to press a v without a v. So either you download a v or you write your own.
debea189ed335a5e…ed335a5e…2022-09-11 21:39:01 <awt> If there are no dupe values in your AT, I'm not sure why tha warning is firing off
ba04a89fed335a5e…b5627a2a…2022-09-11 21:39:17 <signpost> filling up my logs atm with multiple per second
46e4a13e6aab80aa…6aab80aa…2022-09-13 20:32:27 <signpost> the costs of other goods increasing and all other things being equal, there's less money to go chase an increasing amount of BTC.
d1a9d1a671e05192…71e05192…2022-09-21 04:05:42 <crtdaydreams> still borked, will mess around when more bw to burn
e3f28902a64e82ae…c27ad763…2023-07-02 19:58:20 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform introduced v to try to squeeze in some (3) in (1+2) which was starting to seem like a physical impossibility
6cfbbc0dd124450f…d124450f…2023-07-03 01:35:29 <awt_akris> The difficulty with Diana's version is that ADA keccac is a pita to produce.
e5835803debea189…ba04a89f…2022-09-11 21:39:35 <signpost> there are not. gotta be a bug in the is_duplicate thing
78df72ff46e4a13e…46e4a13e…2022-09-13 20:33:00 <signpost> think also about how much cheaply loaned printola is used in these goxes, whether they trade database-btc or stonks
5617ff5a273ef164…fa0d9085…2022-09-22 16:40:20 <billymg> awt: there was one morning where i suffered from some pretty bad headaches, right around day 3 or 4 when it transitioned to the strep-like symptoms
64fe91b5e3f28902…a64e82ae…2023-07-02 19:58:17 <signpost> everyone was humping along a wad of shitty third-hand scripts to bootstrap a musl gcc before I fixed the problem.
b95812f16cfbbc0d…6cfbbc0d…2023-07-03 01:35:58 <awt_akris> I myself built it on my one remaining gentoo, long ago, and have been using that binary on different systems for years.
042e4fbee5835803…e5835803…2022-09-11 21:39:51 <signpost> firing for deedbot still even though I unpeered crawlerbot
94d647ab78df72ff…b89694e3…2022-09-13 20:36:34 <PeterL> signpost: printolade distributed to people, they use it to buy btc, bitcoin prices rise?
3dbb2d4418c17d01…18c17d01…2022-09-21 04:06:59 <crtdaydreams> there has to be a better way of doing addrcast that doesn't cook lappys and burn bw
43a2958d5617ff5a…24322858…2022-09-22 16:37:07 <awt> I wonder how you caught it. Did you forget to wear your mask in your car?
edb6477bb95812f1…0a5598a1…2023-07-03 01:36:06 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: mno, it is certainly possible (if arduous) to manually verify the pgp sigs and then patch -p0 < ...
07ab1650042e4fbe…debea189…2022-09-11 21:40:23 <awt> feel free to comment it out, won't harm anything, but would be interesting to know specifically how it's borked
c461b43694d647ab…78df72ff…2022-09-13 20:37:22 <signpost> the beoble went and bought more debt with the stimmies
59f417ab3dbb2d44…3dbb2d44…2022-09-21 04:08:24 <crtdaydreams> for now will sit on it and examine protocol
a870db9cc461b436…c461b436…2022-09-13 20:38:02 <signpost> but yeah, more stimmies would potentially drive up prices since there's an excess of dollars sloshing around
2fd08e4e59f417ab…59f417ab…2022-09-24 03:30:29 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: curious, is there a pariticular rhyme or reason to your versioning system? i.e. decrements of 1000, starting from 96000 ??
693db69ef36b8312…5617ff5a…2022-09-22 16:41:53 <billymg> awt: girl made a trip to the us, she caught it there
c31042f988703b71…64fe91b5…2023-07-02 19:58:49 <signpost> nothing stops one from *removing* patches from what I put together, and I'd applaud it.
14faa37f0ff88b94…edb6477b…2023-07-03 01:36:54 <asciilifeform> recall that asciilifeform originally advocated hand-sewn equivalent of this process before wrote vtron
1de0a7d7ccfce405…2331becf…2022-09-11 21:44:19 <signpost> gird thine autisms for some noise while I debug plz
550cc65ca870db9c…94d647ab…2022-09-13 20:39:27 <PeterL> or the other wy around: bunch of dollars printed, dollars now worth less, now I won't sell my btc unless somebody gives me more dollar
ada68860693db69e…693db69e…2022-09-22 16:43:24 <billymg> was her first time with it too, somehow she avoided catching it on previous trips despite her family all having it
3bda3544c31042f9…c31042f9…2023-07-02 19:59:06 <signpost> that was the whole fucking point. put it together where it's clear what's needed today, and have where to ratchet it smaller.
bf3f1f6814faa37f…14faa37f…2023-07-03 01:37:15 <asciilifeform> ( it understandably pissed off folx like mp who 'wtf, over9000 patches/sigs and by hand?!' )
7eeca7281de0a7d7…1de0a7d7…2022-09-11 21:48:05 <signpost> k the message originates from State.get_keyed_peers
8ce6cbfc550cc65c…a870db9c…2022-09-13 20:57:49 <signpost> what happens to the dollar if you print 1tril of them but other currencies collapsing creates 2tril of demand for dollars?
df015c8e24af70f8…24af70f8…2022-09-24 03:40:30 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-21#1013344 << yeh i see whatchu mean
f07df47dada68860…ada68860…2022-09-22 16:43:59 <billymg> she recovered in about half the time, which i'll chalk up to youth
b832a520bf3f1f68…bf3f1f68…2023-07-03 01:39:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027703 << he did most of the quite fiddly work in that vdiff
67c61dc87eeca728…7eeca728…2022-09-11 21:49:35 <signpost> and indeed deedbot has two keys in the keys table.
a964a7968ce6cbfc…8ce6cbfc…2022-09-13 20:58:19 <signpost> I don't think any of this is as simple as "number of dollar go up, price of btc go up"
f595c7ca8ce6cbfc…d8403056…2022-10-03 17:34:30 <shinohai> $key whaack Hd4bILpZTQSdTSh2viik0Owk/dT+ZbYVsCcUHwMFCCB5AcLEJS5S73joXysRU9PPDZur6HcUNIhIIbnfL9NXuQ==
293a945fdf015c8e…87fd1709…2022-09-24 03:41:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-21 00:12:53 jonsykkel: pest wont be particularily mobile plan frendly no mater wat u do, ignore pakets eat bw
c2190d83df015c8e…df015c8e…2022-09-24 03:41:22 <crtdaydreams> PeterL: status on scoopbot? will throw a peering key your way.
fa85cdb7f07df47d…43a2958d…2022-09-22 16:40:54 <awt> I read somewhere colds at least don't affect women as much as men. Men were generally more affected than women with covid in particular.
c2ac5c57dd35b156…3bda3544…2023-07-02 19:59:35 <signpost> I'm fucking tired of the phf-flavor narcissism where the guy accuses me of e.g. googling postgres internals on the fly, or whatever "I know what you're really up to" horse shit.
0af6d0b6b832a520…82b246aa…2023-07-03 01:39:31 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 13:14:33 phf[asciilifeform]: i've used e.g. clion to refactor gnu diff for vtools, and i don't think i would've bothered and managed otherwise. highlights unused code, variable and function renames, jump to source that's not stuck in the 80s, "who calls", etc. etc. etc.
e83c4729b832a520…b753a595…2023-07-03 01:41:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 21:31:56 awt_akris[awt]: well shit. I *was* incorrect in referring to the desired v as phf's, but at the same time wanted to acknowledge that it was based on his work, as when I started using it (yes from a tgz) I thought it was dianacoman's. I was not alone in doing so and can see how irksome that co
59a509a2c2ac5c57…dd35b156…2023-07-02 19:59:56 <asciilifeform> the solution to 'grr buncha patches nobody read' is inescapably 'read'em & sign', issue is that there is a megatonne of these and 2-3 people with any cycles at all atm
fb313793e83c4729…b832a520…2023-07-03 01:42:12 asciilifeform has 'pressed by hand' many times, even in recent yrs
b434b7eff477ef1d…67c61dc8…2022-09-11 21:52:40 <signpost> deleting the unused key solved the warning message
75cd02a4b11ff41e…b11ff41e…2022-09-13 21:00:14 <signpost> might even be official US policy to help those collapses along (via stoking wars and self-sabotage) to create inflation sinks.
46638e83777ae085…777ae085…2022-09-24 03:53:15 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: your essays in /books/ are great btw, very clear and concise
bbc52ef8fb313793…fb313793…2023-07-03 01:42:50 <asciilifeform> generally if you've already verified n patches, and nao you grabbed n+1st, it aint particularly more painful than using actual vtron
37127a36b434b7ef…b434b7ef…2022-09-11 21:53:04 <signpost> not sure how I ended up in that state. I see that deedbot's sqlite db also has a duplicate key for bitbot
7284c85375cd02a4…75cd02a4…2022-09-13 21:00:27 <signpost> "The dollar is our currency, but it's your problem."
cadb1a007ccdf32d…72060095…2022-10-03 17:38:02 <shinohai> Starting with fresh db, have upgraded to 9972. v9971 of blatta shits up logs saying mcrypt not available since I guess my version of libmcrypt not compatible or whatever.
f0f07b3d46638e83…46638e83…2022-09-24 04:00:26 <crtdaydreams> ah oki, looking forward to a re-release, very pertinent writing!
4556e671bbc52ef8…0ff88b94…2023-07-03 04:37:33 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027705 << Would like to add that I DO understand that pentacle solves this problem. Still working on getting pentacle to work on my system. Hopefully the solution will be helpful to others.
9327282837127a36…37127a36…2022-09-11 21:53:51 <signpost> cool, going to update deedbot's station onw
a43dd99c7284c853…7284c853…2022-09-13 21:03:39 <signpost> plenty of room for overt manipulation of btc too. see also: paper gold
b133f204bfb25e11…cadb1a00…2022-10-03 17:40:28 <shinohai> awt: Am using an 32-bit arm device for pest station currently, and build from sauce has some obscure bug I can't chase down just yet, will look into it once I haz a bit more free time.
293db1f0a2b9812d…4c47665c…2023-07-02 20:00:15 <signpost> pentacle is the state of the post-tmsr world, as was.
0bef621f4556e671…e83c4729…2023-07-03 04:39:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 21:37:10 awt_akris[awt]: The difficulty with Diana's version is that ADA keccac is a pita to produce.
b24de90c293db1f0…a2b9812d…2023-07-02 20:01:13 asciilifeform read earlier thrd as 'phf ran outta cycles and laments that various things will prolly never get fixed' rather than 'phf points finger at signpost an' says he's a lamer'
e5ecbfcd0bef621f…4556e671…2023-07-03 04:43:34 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027637 << am planning on this.
0c497ce8a1f06e42…f477ef1d…2022-09-11 21:54:50 <awt> It should be ok two have more than one key for a peer, but having duplicate keys is a little weird
0bb5a31a22e91732…cc8f24db…2022-09-14 01:03:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-13#1012816 << a, except that most printolade is handed not to humans to buy mcphood, but to 'investors', to prop up 'markets' (and + to maintain the titled barons )
f8d55e60b24de90c…293db1f0…2023-07-02 20:02:12 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027621 << this is his description of what I did, and fuck him.
44b3bbaae5ecbfcd…0bef621f…2023-07-03 04:45:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:22:43 signpost: to put a finer point on it, if awt wants to package his thing for normies, I'd build a static bin of it, and sign that. nobody's going to be enrolled in the religion that doesn't already have the inclination. and probably no one that happens to use it will check the signature.
ca3baf680bb5a31a…d59f9b34…2022-09-14 01:03:07 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-09 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-09#1100745 << may encourage verisimilitude to realize that it aint in fact run 'with money'. oligarchs aint oligarchs 'because have money', they are simply [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-11#1095153][deputie
2b673f030bb5a31a…929bea92…2022-09-14 01:03:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-13 16:33:16 signpost: the costs of other goods increasing and all other things being equal, there's less money to go chase an increasing amount of BTC.
760d711cf8d55e60…dd931141…2023-07-02 20:03:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:03:58 phf[4]: but of course that's not convenient when you "just want to" run vtools, so people started packing vtools into tarballs on their blogs. "you need vtools to compile my widget!! and here's a tarball of vtools, don't think about it"
ba41f2e544b3bbaa…e5ecbfcd…2023-07-03 04:53:05 <awt_akris> Also want to add that phf's unicode fuzzing, multipart message spamming, as well as sharing of his own experiments has been very helpful in spurring me to continue iterating on my pest station.
6fd794ee2b673f03…0bb5a31a…2022-09-14 01:05:51 <asciilifeform> corollary to this -- part of the reason is specifically so that human-amoebas see 'stonks -- rising' and load up on ~that~ rather than btc
9ef260d3760d711c…b24de90c…2023-07-02 20:02:34 <asciilifeform> atm we're down to ~5 folx with working hands. asciilifeform buried in liquishit and emerges 2-3x/yr. phf afaik ditto. signpost, awt, jonsykkel still kicking.
1a918934ba41f2e5…d62b274f…2023-07-03 14:41:37 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027689 << not commercial works, but since around feb/march have been buried in a renovations project. saving money by working directly with a crew instead of a flashy contracting company but it means i'm overseeing everything to make sure it's done correctly. even learned how to use
ac2557bf6fd794ee…ca3baf68…2022-09-14 01:05:52 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-07 asciilifeform: i.e. to keep the amoebas from climbing the immediate gradient.
46613f777493099e…7493099e…2022-09-25 10:48:18 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform et al; anyone familiar with molex connectors, not sure *if* there is a difference between 5556 5566 5557 etc. series connectors? looking to replace PSU to mobo 24 pin 4.2mm header
100581e99ef260d3…9ef260d3…2023-07-02 20:03:22 <asciilifeform> ( 6? billymg also emerges , but iirc is buried similarly to asciilifeform in commercial shite )
8e17b0671a918934…44b3bbaa…2023-07-03 14:43:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 16:05:02 asciilifeform[4]: ( 6? billymg also emerges , but iirc is buried similarly to asciilifeform in commercial shite )
e38f4d6dac2557bf…6fd794ee…2022-09-14 01:08:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-13#1012823 << aaha, because not spray-painted evenly on whole planet (what'd be the point?)
cc0fc40f46613f77…46613f77…2022-09-25 21:44:22 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013480 getting both reflow solder header and male end, pin broke off on the header and the male one is melted and tarnished in a couple places, just going to lop it off and re-do the whole connector opposed to disconnecting the pins and reusing.
ee89b318100581e9…100581e9…2023-07-02 20:03:39 asciilifeform apologizes if fughot sumbody in this roundup
4ea9b37de38f4d6d…2b673f03…2022-09-14 01:08:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-13 16:59:00 signpost: I don't think any of this is as simple as "number of dollar go up, price of btc go up"
958aa85ef934a141…f934a141…2022-09-25 14:42:21 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: if yer ordering from a parts house 'blindly', do make sure it's the ~male~ connector rather than the pcb one; and that you've a pin extractor
c50c3138cc0fc40f…f1917076…2022-09-25 21:45:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 10:43:06 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: if yer ordering from a parts house 'blindly', do make sure it's the ~male~ connector rather than the pcb one; and that you've a pin extractor
9992dc0ecc0fc40f…cc0fc40f…2022-09-25 21:46:37 <crtdaydreams> board still werks, used it for ~5 years in this state lol
6133fe09ee89b318…ee89b318…2023-07-02 20:05:38 asciilifeform suspects fwiw that phf not has a box with signpost's pentacle yet, and so still on state of art circa '19. but not knows for certain
8509fea94ea9b37d…e38f4d6d…2022-09-14 01:08:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-13#1012825 << traditional usg 'biz model'.
aa7facd76133fe09…f8d55e60…2023-07-02 20:05:37 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027615 << concretely without the "blockwise read" one I couldn't shove gcc through, and we can either sit and feel superior that "there should never be such a large patch" or put gcc in the trb situation where at least shit can be hacked off, and *those* can be readable.
1821dc4f6676acc2…6676acc2…2023-07-03 14:44:51 <billymg> and ty for the praise re logger, though it's really just a modification on top of your work. i also still owe some patches on that for the pg full-text search functionality, i think that's all that's missing from my tree
fbb0aa22e5ac490d…72145038…2022-09-12 02:26:31 <asciilifeform> awt: ideally thing oughta check for duplicate keys on startup (or prohibit'em entirely in sql schema, better)
7ff1cbf08509fea9…4ea9b37d…2022-09-14 01:09:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-13 17:00:51 signpost: might even be official US policy to help those collapses along (via stoking wars and self-sabotage) to create inflation sinks.
2af7a8b6aa7facd7…760d711c…2023-07-02 20:07:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 11:59:00 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: a and b here are tied together. so the tmsr approach and the position was that you don't integrate patches without having read and understood them. something like a tarball of source as some people started doing on their blogs, or a semi-automatic approach where
2ac294351821dc4f…dbb91db9…2023-07-03 14:47:47 asciilifeform was ftr taking off hat to the folx who in past yr managed to publish sumthing interesting, even in the midst of building houses, growing children, etc. -- vs. asciilifeform who not finished anyffin interesting in rather long time
0e714dd28f1ed955…8f1ed955…2022-11-05 05:27:52 <phf> hmm, first time i've actually tested pest on a roaming connection, behind consumer nat
00712d9a7ff1cbf0…8509fea9…2022-09-14 01:13:22 <asciilifeform> 'printing press, brrr' is today what always was -- a confiscation machine, pumps from disfavoured (usd savers) to favoured (lizards, sublizards)
7c5573c5954f5084…954f5084…2022-09-25 22:43:06 <asciilifeform> dun be asciilifeform's 1st landlord (rip) who liked to plant over9000 trees one year then tear'em out next yr and goto 10 (b/c bored)
8355fb3c2659498a…2659498a…2022-09-27 08:38:31 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013485 << to clarify; werks as in "didn't let out magic smoke", inoperable due to aforementioned broken pin.
a9d2213b2ac29435…1821dc4f…2023-07-03 14:47:58 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-02#1027638 << imo a big opportunity, considering the darkening has been accelerating to the point where even normies are noticing (twitter restrictions, subreddit shutdowns, etc.)
904341580e714dd2…0e714dd2…2022-11-05 05:29:35 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-04#1015508 << why no tk
dd45152600712d9a…00712d9a…2022-09-14 01:17:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-13#1012821 << except where goxen magick additional 'btc' into existence and sell.
8bd80bc97c5573c5…7c5573c5…2022-09-26 03:06:40 asciilifeform finally started rewrite of spec using 'hevea' tool. so far worx reasonably... ty phf !
cd800fff8355fb3c…267f68c7…2022-09-27 08:39:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 18:41:41 asciilifeform[6]: if it worx, leave it alone, lol
0541baeb8355fb3c…8355fb3c…2022-09-27 08:39:34 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013486 << precisely why i left as potential fire hazard for ~5 years, broke it pulling hdd out
1ff74ada32f867bb…32f867bb…2023-07-02 20:14:16 <asciilifeform> afaik atm erryone remaining is carrying 'naggum's cross' to some degree. so asciilifeform aint aboutta throw mp-style 'wtf wai ditntcha fix/finish/invent $item! lamer, traitor' at anybody
b8dc0e0ea9d2213b…8e17b067…2023-07-03 14:49:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:23:29 signpost: oughta make the thing into distributed telegram.
ad536480563eb6c0…fbb0aa22…2022-09-12 17:22:10 <asciilifeform> awt: i'm on the new blatta, and seeing megatonnes of warning barf
3095bda090434158…14e08ad6…2022-11-05 05:30:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-04 23:05:59 asciilifeform[6]: ... 'wx' and 'qt' -- only game in town.
cfd4a1b7dd451526…7ff1cbf0…2022-09-14 01:18:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-13 16:40:06 PeterL: or the other wy around: bunch of dollars printed, dollars now worth less, now I won't sell my btc unless somebody gives me more dollar
fe0c8fd28bd80bc9…ae6ef7cd…2022-09-26 03:06:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-22 phf: it has some rough edges (and that's what they are rough edges, can be worked out with some attention to detail), but generally i have a very pleased feeling about hevea
c4753a6ecd800fff…cd800fff…2022-09-27 08:39:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 17:45:11 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013480 getting both reflow solder header and male end, pin broke off on the header and the male one is melted and tarnished in a couple places, just going to lop it off and re-do the whole connector opposed to disconnecting the p
970c576e0541baeb…c4753a6e…2022-09-27 08:40:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 18:43:48 asciilifeform[5]: dun be asciilifeform's 1st landlord (rip) who liked to plant over9000 trees one year then tear'em out next yr and goto 10 (b/c bored)
1bbf288e0541baeb…0541baeb…2022-09-27 08:42:30 <crtdaydreams> if it aint broke, dun fix it! and if is broke but you can do without; dun fix it!
2a9c00791ff74ada…1ff74ada…2023-07-02 20:15:49 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's pov, awt's pestrons, or signpost's pentacle, or billymg's logger, are heroic feats, rather than some kinda 'fulfilled obligation'
e015dfc3b8dc0e0e…b8dc0e0e…2023-07-03 14:49:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 16:19:53 signpost: the darkening is going to get worse.
a422edb9ad536480…ad536480…2022-09-12 17:22:32 <asciilifeform> awt: "Peer with duplicate address or handle id detected: shinohai"
cd7920633095bda0…38f68a12…2022-11-05 05:29:42 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-03 asciilifeform: fucked with 'wx', 'qt', bought the fucking books, worked through all known public examples of anyffin even vaguely resembling hypertext editors, tried with raw x11, # of misc. horrors. all to 0 useful result.
4ca7b06dcfd4a1b7…dd451526…2022-09-14 01:18:34 <asciilifeform> ( historically worked a++ with 'paper gold', equally worx for just about any other fractional-reserve scamola, incl. goxcoins )
436ec089fe0c8fd2…8bd80bc9…2022-09-26 03:07:48 <asciilifeform> makefile will shit out pretty-printeristic & linkified-html variants.
ae6375681bbf288e…1bbf288e…2022-09-27 08:47:42 <crtdaydreams> not asciilifeform but imo dash reminscient of `pedo-lang
7f8ec5952a9c0079…aa7facd7…2023-07-02 20:17:02 <signpost> hey man, not even looking for applause, but thanks.
d3e50c96e015dfc3…a9d2213b…2023-07-03 15:01:45 <billymg> the rest of the above message that got cut off in the logger: ...even learned how to use blender for creating the designs
276a756fcd792063…90434158…2022-11-05 05:33:05 <phf> i've written a simple demo, where use "marks" around areas to be able to replace and update those areas when more information is available
6e97774e4ca7b06d…4ca7b06d…2022-09-14 01:23:39 <asciilifeform> is how in '17 reich halted the 'explosive' rise of btc-usd exch rate -- by 'legalizing' goxism and placing it on central gosplan-style footing to (mostly) put a stop on uncontrolled 'bank runs' which might threaten demand for papercoin
e134a598436ec089…436ec089…2022-09-26 03:15:28 <asciilifeform> being able to move sections around w/out manually renumbering and diddling links is a++.
65adef44ae637568…ae637568…2022-09-27 08:48:50 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-09-25#1113966 << not asciilifeform but imo dash reminscient of `pedo-lang'
262042db7f8ec595…7f8ec595…2023-07-02 20:17:48 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-01#1027580 << it's this.
a8f1af97d3e50c96…d3e50c96…2023-07-03 15:03:02 <billymg> which btw has been pretty fun, a lot carries over from 2d UI design actually, both in using the 3d application's interface, and in the principles applied to what you're doing
8205d3d4276a756f…276a756f…2022-11-05 05:36:49 <phf> tk text widget is plenty powerful, supports a handful of concepts to markup and subdivide the output for all the pest needs. i think you can even output inline images
0d12b20a6e97774e…6e97774e…2022-09-14 01:25:42 <asciilifeform> ( all current-day 'Official' goxen can be safely assumed to seekritly share a reserve piggy; this'd be the 'crown jewels' of their seekrit agreement with reich.gosplan, rather than whatever snoopings, tax collections, etc which moar or less erryone knows about at this pt)
3a2a7c9ae134a598…3a3f0613…2022-09-26 14:27:55 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-23#1013457 << he's running here. send me a couple pest keys for me and scoopbot, or I can generate a couple keys later today to send to you
162fb55c65adef44…970c576e…2022-09-27 08:49:43 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-25 gregorynyssa: I like the Slackware fork of dash(1) but it has some errors, including in the latest release, 15.0.
ab1481da65adef44…65adef44…2022-09-27 08:52:40 <crtdaydreams> (from my limited experience) it removes things like directory matching, autocomplete and directory listingthat are pretty well "musts" for me
b753a595262042db…2af7a8b6…2023-07-02 20:19:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-01 10:51:15 signpost: an aggressively censorship resistant stack is possible with pest, something like I described above, occ (aka squirt/slurp), etc
a7b86150a8f1af97…99a3dddc…2023-07-03 17:40:08 <signpost> by way of zerohedge, but skipped to the meat: https://archive.is/4a3zQ
9a3c686cbe5d592c…1541ae49…2022-09-12 17:31:01 <dulapbot> shinohai last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-08-29 09:21:10: lol juche no worries I was intentionally being facetious since had never seen you here before and only saw above prose. ^_^
6b2575128205d3d4…8205d3d4…2022-11-05 05:37:31 <phf> i've not tested in on "gigabytes of data", but eats canticle for leibowitz for no slowdown whatsover
4b5a766a0d12b20a…0d12b20a…2022-09-14 01:29:10 <asciilifeform> ( not to mention fact that in 'small print' of coinbase et al, one invariably finds 'in emergency, reserve the right to convert yer holdings to usd at the rate of our choice' etc )
2537ec043a2a7c9a…c50c3138…2022-09-26 14:29:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-23 23:42:16 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: PeterL: status on scoopbot? will throw a peering key your way.
c28d9eb2162fb55c…162fb55c…2022-09-27 08:49:43 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-08-07 asciilifeform: hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)
9581f818ab1481da…ab1481da…2022-09-27 08:54:42 <crtdaydreams> seems pretty counterintuitive if you try and keep track of 5+ shells and you jump between them and forget which directory you're in, that sorta thing
ebbf80b5b753a595…2a9c0079…2023-07-02 20:18:11 asciilifeform was not able to build much of anyffin, aside from the rather junkyard spec, ever since started ~80h/w consulting ugh, so impressed with folx who were
f4c81b47a7b86150…a7b86150…2023-07-03 17:40:56 <signpost> 37% of non-financial companies are nearing default on their loans.
ed7e1ae76b257512…6b257512…2022-11-05 05:39:02 <phf> the only feature that's missing (and that depends on who you ask) is file drag&drog and drop. i would've liked to be able to drop a file onto the pest window, and get it pasted or uploaded or whatever
59420f822537ec04…3a2a7c9a…2022-09-26 14:34:14 <PeterL> if you just want to add your blog to his roll, you don't even need to be his peer directly, use syntax like http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-14#1012860
6ecf64309581f818…e134a598…2022-09-28 03:00:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-27#1013498 << same as before
068b8baf717e0a30…9a3c686c…2022-09-12 17:31:13 <dulapbot> shinohai last seen here on 2021-11-18 09:48:13: that *is* cool lel
1ee05c14ed7e1ae7…7abb9f57…2022-11-05 06:14:10 <asciilifeform> ^ would imho be a sufficient 'wainot', not even need to list others
267f68c759420f82…2537ec04…2022-09-26 14:35:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-14 10:36:58 PeterL: !s add http://thimbron.com/feed/
2c52ee536ecf6430…c28d9eb2…2022-09-28 03:01:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-27 04:32:10 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: asciilifeform: current ip?
300ff14c0fa9db83…2ac29435…2023-07-03 17:41:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: did their brrprinter run outta paper or wat
4058f8821ee05c14…1ee05c14…2022-11-05 06:15:08 <asciilifeform> ( tho gotta mention, not ever seen a tk proggy that 'loox native' on any os at all, even linux (where 'gtk == native'))
94852a0d267f68c7…59420f82…2022-09-26 14:35:47 <PeterL> although, if you are his peer you can add personalized feeds using dm
c9975a252c52ee53…2c52ee53…2022-09-28 03:01:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-14 11:42:14 asciilifeform[6]: PeterL: 100.15.116.69:1337
0c20928cfdecbe35…fdecbe35…2022-10-07 08:48:29 crtdaydreams has been purged from bitdash logs, but is present on nosuchlabs
ea7c3c2b4058f882…4058f882…2022-11-05 06:16:34 <asciilifeform> (tbf it's been many yrs since asciilifeform tried tkism)
3b3cf41694852a0d…94852a0d…2022-09-26 17:15:50 <PeterL> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1ymz crtdaydreams
779e370ec9975a25…6ecf6430…2022-09-28 21:17:47 <asciilifeform> phf: fix for a lolbug in 'hevea', of possible interest.
7ac29133c557e319…c557e319…2022-09-12 17:32:58 <asciilifeform> also ftr seeing the multi-minute message embargo thing again
d6ce56adea7c3c2b…7c1971b0…2022-11-05 13:18:59 <billymg> well, i feel like an idiot. turns out this was user error
42c0810ba7a23be8…a7a23be8…2022-10-07 08:49:29 <crtdaydreams> am hearsay from ascii and busybot, yet peered with neither
bb04dbee7ac29133…7ac29133…2022-09-12 17:36:50 <asciilifeform> btw awt -- imho the 'send addrcast with 1/60 odds erry min.' oughta be per cold peer, rather than all in 1 burst
3a1c7de8d6ce56ad…3095bda0…2022-11-05 13:14:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 10:44:28 billymg: god dammit, i think my isp here just started throttling torrents. ubuntu (as a test, 2k seeders) downloading at < 50kB/s
5e18fe3042c0810b…42c0810b…2022-10-07 08:49:47 crtdaydreams disappointed in the lack of "hitler" in %wot
c5258a203f76bf2f…38eb1366…2023-07-03 17:43:25 <asciilifeform> sooo they'll increase ( as recently with the splat banks ) neh
b21fb8dbbb04dbee…bb04dbee…2022-09-12 17:37:31 <asciilifeform> ( the way it is now, is too easy for snoop to calculate how many cold peers a station has from traffic burst mass )
57ffb88c3a1c7de8…d6ce56ad…2022-11-05 13:21:15 <billymg> someone clicked the little turtle icon (speed limit) in the web ui. the girl uses the same web interface so i'd like to blame it on her but honestly could've just as easily have been me, seeing as how i didn't even notice
b291c2171912b378…fe0c8fd2…2022-09-30 14:04:15 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 11d 22h 16m
c3a97c045e18fe30…5e18fe30…2022-10-07 08:50:02 <crtdaydreams> s/hitler/questionable austrian painter/
293b8978c5258a20…0fa9db83…2023-07-03 17:43:21 signpost wont even hypothesize about cause(s) because the stats are all lies.
b42bef1bb21fb8db…dcdefc92…2022-09-12 17:39:05 <shinohai> asciilifeform: when I updated to 9973 I mysteriously had peers not in user list, though their keys are present when I run %wot
4e7b407f57ffb88c…57ffb88c…2022-11-05 13:22:35 <billymg> so attn log readers: torrents work fine in costa rica without any workarounds, don't cancel your plans to move here
d00f81a4293b8978…293b8978…2023-07-03 17:43:32 <signpost> but yes, would think this means stimmies inbound galore
8ecf1923b42bef1b…b42bef1b…2022-09-12 17:40:15 <shinohai> I will try to upgrade to latest blatta and figure this out when I get settled here - Castle Titsbare was revealed to have problems with chinesium mold so am temporarily mobile.
78f89b9abd970202…bd970202…2022-10-07 08:53:14 <crtdaydreams> gotta make the time to churn up a webirc for ya mate
20ab5339d00f81a4…d00f81a4…2023-07-03 17:45:01 <signpost> splat first, like during covid, then massive liquidity dump so the regime banks can eat.
3d6cc57ed61b4275…f07747bc…2022-09-30 18:08:09 <awt> Couple of weeks of hell for me, then living in Costa Rica full time.
e627323e78f89b9a…78f89b9a…2022-10-07 09:05:05 <crtdaydreams> ello ello? shinohai; did you update your %wot or something?
746d19b878f89b9a…9d8a7d1f…2022-10-07 12:55:46 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014046 <<< nuked my blatta db (see logs) ... I *think* I have your correct key back in there but if not ping me here or on dulap and I'll get it sorted.
0a12f24420ab5339…3f76bf2f…2023-07-03 17:45:10 <awt_akris> Good time to be rich. With about 4 mil you can get like 200k/year for free.
6224a021e627323e…e627323e…2022-10-07 20:51:42 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014047 << We're still peered, it's all good. The problem was I booted up and saw you posted shortly after, but my station didn't register, then a few minutes later it picked up your station to my surprise.
ed99e10f746d19b8…90a02a72…2022-10-07 12:56:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 05:05:55 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: ello ello? shinohai; did you update your %wot or something?
5fcc515455e2e09a…cc705a35…2022-11-05 15:35:42 <shinohai> "Come to beautiful sunny Costa Rica, we have it all! Exotic women! Torrents! Bitcoin Billionaires drowning in the ocean!"
a73bfa066224a021…ed99e10f…2022-10-07 20:52:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 08:56:46 shinohai: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014046 <<< nuked my blatta db (see logs) ... I *think* I have your correct key back in there but if not ping me here or on dulap and I'll get it sorted.
67b0e0376224a021…6224a021…2022-10-07 20:52:44 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014049 << everything seems to have resolved, all of above wasn't showing up on bitdash, possib. just syncing lag.
603ae10fed99e10f…52dfea3c…2022-10-07 14:22:35 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: what line missing from that log ?
8157a819aaf2b964…aaf2b964…2022-09-30 19:54:01 signpost figures everybody's doing what can be done to get situated atm.
a971557fa73bfa06…a73bfa06…2022-10-07 20:52:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-06 22:10:13 shinohai: $uptime
5abd047567b0e037…a971557f…2022-10-07 20:53:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 10:23:32 asciilifeform[4]: crtdaydreams: what line missing from that log ?
4ac1ea7067b0e037…67b0e037…2022-10-07 20:55:37 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014050 << reminds me of this thrd., pretty spot on.
a3cf784d603ae10f…0bf6ad5a…2022-10-07 18:21:26 <signpost> http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69465 << pretty good speech.
0eb97a355abd0475…746d19b8…2022-10-07 20:54:30 <shinohai> Hola crtdaydreams ! Can confirm, see you in peer list & in console now.
7adca0104ac1ea70…5abd0475…2022-10-07 20:56:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 14:22:28 signpost: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69465 << pretty good speech.
5efad0d04ac1ea70…4ac1ea70…2022-10-07 20:56:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-07#1014056 << if it isn't my favorite meat robot!
d7e6d2334232d117…f0dda540…2023-07-03 17:47:38 <asciilifeform> ( in asciilifeform's pov, 'rich' is when you own actual physical 'means of production'(tm) in multiple jurisdictions, to the point where you dun give any measurable fuck re printing presses etc )
c4c14004778808ba…778808ba…2022-10-01 01:21:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-30#1013523 << as they say in ru «перед смертью не надышишься», that is “you can’t take satiate breathing before death”
8cf204f17adca010…7adca010…2022-10-07 20:56:27 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-11 asciilifeform: mangol: in re the bigger picture. and not simply 'east expansion', but that reich rather obv. cannot survive 1) without continuing to get ru fuels & other minerals for ~phree 2) the continued existence of [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-07#1083094][an alt-civi
4039d4595efad0d0…8cf204f1…2022-10-07 20:57:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 16:55:30 shinohai: Hola crtdaydreams ! Can confirm, see you in peer list & in console now.
dc87df09c4c14004…c9975a25…2022-10-01 01:22:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 15:54:47 signpost: figures everybody's doing what can be done to get situated atm.
b9fb31d38cf204f1…2cb99f7a…2022-10-07 20:55:46 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-07 asciilifeform: lizards are terrified that there'll be 'where to defect to'. even in longest possible term pov.
aadd4950f9bbbc0b…f9bbbc0b…2022-10-13 09:28:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-08#1113987 << :D
8cec3efa83220014…cd31c263…2022-11-05 15:39:33 <shinohai> Weechat has built-in narcissism, can wish self gm
45ca7ad6dc87df09…c4c14004…2022-10-01 01:23:22 <phf> a sentiment which is tempered by “two more weeks, huh”
daa98ccaaadd4950…9828bf8a…2022-10-13 09:29:32 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-08 vex: Aniara, this is vex. messgae received.
7eb39cecaadd4950…aadd4950…2022-10-13 09:29:42 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-08#1113989 << really puts things into perspective
c336da6c6172d032…6172d032…2023-07-03 17:49:12 <asciilifeform> ( is what they usually seem to be doing when asciilifeform encounters them )
dcbef6be8cec3efa…83220014…2022-11-05 15:44:44 <signpost> phf: any requirement to use a fixed-width font?
298f303c45ca7ad6…e8d9cd19…2022-10-01 01:33:09 <billymg> phf: google translate gives "while there is life there is hope" for that phrase. i'm not sure i understand "you can't take satiate breathing before death" but i first interpreted it as "you can't relax while waiting for death"
a0ad74b8daa98cca…4c354092…2022-10-13 09:28:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 04:52:04 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform|busybot]: Aniara to vex; anyone there?
a2934d197eb39cec…daa98cca…2022-10-13 09:30:45 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-08 vex: read 10th place speech, went thru changes.
f11964ba7eb39cec…7eb39cec…2022-10-14 21:10:55 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-14#1114030 << would you like a peering key? I can send you one through your age key.
37692106c336da6c…3915c9ed…2023-07-03 17:49:34 <awt_akris> Subjective I guess. I couldn't sleep well on a tent on the sidewalk.
5fa5df38dcbef6be…dcbef6be…2022-11-05 15:45:22 signpost sorta tired of reading human speech in typewriter.
77f42407298f303c…45ca7ad6…2022-10-01 01:29:24 <phf> billymg, well, it was a shit translation, which i also managed to fuck up :D
f318c441a2934d19…d173357c…2022-10-13 14:20:00 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: wtf was that and wat's it doing in the log ? (seems like oughta've been a pm?)
d4a23276f11964ba…fb280abc…2022-10-14 21:12:04 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-14 d4: So is it official? The conversation is moved to Pest?
c84ff60df11964ba…f11964ba…2022-10-16 04:39:24 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013479 << no diff
290e30a45fa5df38…5fa5df38…2022-11-05 15:46:48 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015529 << next-best would be to consistently look like itself on all. I've had something like "well-typeset book" kicking around in my imagination.
e350c30f77f42407…298f303c…2022-10-01 01:34:26 <billymg> would you say it's closer in sentiment to what google gives or my initial interpretation?
8a3f8e8cf318c441…f318c441…2022-10-13 17:49:53 <asciilifeform> awt, signpost, jonsykkel, phf, et al: meanwhile, in moar spec preview tidbits. (printer version)
62ccea8fc84ff60d…c84ff60d…2022-10-16 04:40:03 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-25#1013480 << no need for pin extractor; two needles from sewing kit worked a treat
97b6334ec84ff60d…949c712d…2022-10-16 04:40:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 10:41:37 asciilifeform[6]: crtdaydreams: not afaik
4783c89953779599…20ab5339…2023-07-03 17:52:17 <signpost> tbh I did a 1.5yr hiatus, slept, partied, fucked wife, was merry.
3e404586290e30a4…3a1c7de8…2022-11-05 15:47:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 02:16:09 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: ( tho gotta mention, not ever seen a tk proggy that 'loox native' on any os at all, even linux (where 'gtk == native'))
f2e84e82e350c30f…77f42407…2022-10-01 01:32:06 <phf> neither are correct, google's idiom matching is particularly abysmal
a411be378a3f8e8c…8a3f8e8c…2022-10-13 17:52:43 asciilifeform thinking, 1day when spec is 'stable', to issue'em in properly bound deadtree to interested folx
a47c7640e6bb15bc…5cb7324b…2022-10-15 23:14:50 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Could not connect!), h=758731, v=99999, United States - peers: 283 - last probed: 23m ago
8c2b29c262ccea8f…62ccea8f…2022-10-16 04:40:21 <crtdaydreams> back to this thread because "grr solder"
21cc6cea62ccea8f…97b6334e…2022-10-16 04:41:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-25 10:43:06 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: if yer ordering from a parts house 'blindly', do make sure it's the ~male~ connector rather than the pcb one; and that you've a pin extractor
ebd617654783c899…4783c899…2023-07-03 17:52:38 <signpost> it's fun; but can do some of that in parallel with works.
19f7253a3e404586…e52fbb4c…2022-11-05 16:47:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: aside from the current curses ughs ( e.g. the weechat asciilifeform is pesting from ) , no reason wai would haveto have fixed font (unless resorting to bake raw fb gui without renderers , that is)
328aa63af2e84e82…f2e84e82…2022-10-01 01:34:03 <phf> the meaning is more like, you can't take "enough breaths" before death. as in "breathing" is not something you can satiate by trying do plenty of it
eef32c79a47c7640…a47c7640…2022-10-15 23:14:50 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, United States - peers: 86 - last probed: 23m ago
7e345f928c2b29c2…8c2b29c2…2022-10-16 04:41:24 <crtdaydreams> I have tried big hot air gun @ 400 degree C and 30W handheld solder and the header solder will not melt
cb1b6350ebd61765…37692106…2023-07-03 17:53:02 <awt_akris> I am incapable of not working on something
06581c9f19f7253a…cd792063…2022-11-05 16:47:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-02 23:08:34 asciilifeform: as it is, for fonts alone we've postscript, truetype, opentype, and wtf else
d394be7a328aa63a…328aa63a…2022-10-01 01:37:36 <phf> or rather, that's a direct translation, but i'm having hard time verbalizing meaning. it's one of those "you gotta be russian" things. it's some combination of "vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas" with "memento mori", that's intented to communicate a kind of resigned acceptance of the inevitable
8beb64f164b1e374…a411be37…2022-10-13 22:10:57 <asciilifeform> ty signpost . is a 1st class headache to bake ( e.g. asciilifeform still stumped how to make 'algorithms' latex pkg work under 'hevea' -- found author's discussion but notworx at all.. )
aaedc786eef32c79…eef32c79…2022-10-15 23:14:50 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=756042, v=99999, United States - peers: 81 - last probed: 24m ago
cb43b2347e345f92…7e345f92…2022-10-16 04:43:01 <crtdaydreams> 99.99% sure must either be carbon steel or some insane brand of lead-free solder
90c81f7fcb1b6350…53779599…2023-07-03 17:53:28 <asciilifeform> fair point re subjective/psychological tho. asciilifeform for instance would only 'feel rich' if 1) not had to work 2) not need to reduce consumption to maintain (1) 3) 'chance of again having to work' were <= 'chance of flattened by asteroid'
c9f5c87106581c9f…19f7253a…2022-11-05 16:49:11 <asciilifeform> ^ sumthing asciilifeform attempted, on & off, for ~2decade nao, but not got anywhere satisfying.
684c289dd394be7a…d394be7a…2022-10-01 01:38:06 <phf> so as you can see the meaning is the exact opposite of google's "translation"
20927d558beb64f1…8beb64f1…2022-10-13 22:11:46 <asciilifeform> ( worx, naturally, like the earlier figures, when 'figurized' but then turns into unsearchable bitmapturds when hevea'd to html )
a12f579caaedc786…aaedc786…2022-10-15 23:14:50 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, Canada - peers: 76 - last probed: 23m ago
f7bf6b6dcb43b234…2d6a1f0f…2022-10-16 04:44:10 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: it's likely pb-free + the tracks are fat enuff to 'heatsink'. add pb, turn iron to '11', and have patience.
9258e36490c81f7f…cb1b6350…2023-07-03 17:53:34 <awt_akris> So I guess I would adjust my definition to "and also be able do do works"
afcec13ac9f5c871…c9f5c871…2022-11-05 16:50:04 <asciilifeform> extant os suck so mightily that even 'scroll a screen of text w/out flicker' is a quest for hero
37d52cfe684c289d…684c289d…2022-10-01 01:39:19 <phf> it's closer to your interpretation, but more like "you might as well relax while waiting for death"
554839b0a12f579c…a12f579c…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=758846, v=88888, France - peers: 68 - last probed: 24m ago
59fab8ad43efd771…43efd771…2022-10-16 04:48:47 <crtdaydreams> I have to do 24 of these connectors, not just two
4b6d03989258e364…ebd61765…2023-07-03 17:54:47 <signpost> yeah, right now I'm hedging the total blackrock-ification of corn with fiat works.
1fe134afafcec13a…afcec13a…2022-11-05 16:51:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015538 << dunfughet, also, capt. kidd's treasure!
df40962a37d52cfe…e350c30f…2022-10-01 01:45:33 <billymg> ah, i like that, the more optimistic phrasing
d942c43b44e171ad…a3cf784d…2022-10-10 16:17:35 <signpost> looks like ukraine's been getting lit up for about 12hrs.
62423a76fb52111e…fb52111e…2022-10-13 22:14:57 asciilifeform refusing to compromise on quality of the printed matter, but also refusing to maintain 2 copies of same text, so stuck, similarly to last time, until finds pill
89ac41b7554839b0…554839b0…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=758846, v=70001, United States - peers: 47 - last probed: 23m ago
e564cf8759fab8ad…59fab8ad…2022-10-16 04:49:54 <crtdaydreams> I tried with one of the pins before posting here, ended up with blob on top because lack of solder wick!
cc61e4794b6d0398…9258e364…2023-07-03 18:00:58 <awt_akris> Gotta keep in mind that as you age, you'll likely have health problems. So get some fun in while your health is still good. Of course many take this to mean you should work your ass off *until* health problems.
caf0bb8f1fe134af…3e404586…2022-11-05 16:52:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 11:36:45 shinohai: "Come to beautiful sunny Costa Rica, we have it all! Exotic women! Torrents! Bitcoin Billionaires drowning in the ocean!"
7c3da625df40962a…37d52cfe…2022-10-01 01:41:52 <phf> there's another meaning, which is basically "you had your whole life to breath, now it's a bit too late"
b99edbf5d942c43b…603ae10f…2022-10-10 16:18:15 <asciilifeform> signpost: officially payback for truckb0mb on bridge
fcec3dd489ac41b7…89ac41b7…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=758824, v=99999, Romania - peers: 41 - last probed: 23m ago
9423cbf9cc61e479…fbef7f7e…2023-07-03 18:26:03 asciilifeform recalls a ru crackpot (name presently escapes) who came across coupla 100k $ and his plan was 'carouse in thailand until dough runs out, then eat pistol' and he did exactly that
6f3602cfcaf0bb8f…8cec3efa…2022-11-05 16:52:45 <shinohai> BingoBoingo better fire up the yacht and go searchin'
a4eb49bf7c3da625…df40962a…2022-10-01 01:46:38 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-30#1013532 << this makes sense to me. "trying to prepare for death is futile" --> "might as well relax"
3a8d98fafcec3dd4…fcec3dd4…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=757805, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 39 - last probed: 23m ago
9b540db59423cbf9…a3db7aa6…2023-07-03 18:28:27 <awt> I mean that's the extreme take on it. I used to read expat autobiographies and heard about old expats offing themselves in Thailand when their money ran out.
e448f62a6f3602cf…ed7e1ae7…2022-11-05 17:28:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015545 << you can do all kinds of ungodly things, like http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-ungodly.png
325e679da4eb49bf…dc87df09…2022-10-01 01:42:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 21:34:56 phf[awt]: the meaning is more like, you can't take "enough breaths" before death. as in "breathing" is not something you can satiate by trying do plenty of it
35cde48033bc0f49…d942c43b…2022-10-10 16:21:26 <signpost> curious what leverage's being used on the ukraine side, such that they were apparently willing to negotiate back in what, april? but not now.
6ffcb398e0848ce2…7745fdb9…2022-10-14 16:52:30 <PeterL> asciilifeform: perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by "bitmapturd", but couldn't you have it keep the text as the html alt-text for the bitmap, which would make it show up in a search?
036d52ec3a8d98fa…3a8d98fa…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 38 - last probed: 23m ago
47e60901e4d0106d…e4d0106d…2022-10-18 11:45:14 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-17#1114041 << http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HNTt
ec1c65769b540db5…9423cbf9…2023-07-03 18:32:37 <asciilifeform> arguably just about errybody does some variant of this, but simply counts on old age rather than pistol
d836a9f9e448f62a…caf0bb8f…2022-11-05 17:29:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 11:45:48 signpost: phf: any requirement to use a fixed-width font?
4e6ab0626ffcb398…e0848ce2…2022-10-14 17:17:29 <asciilifeform> PeterL: 'hevea' dun do this , and asciilifeform aint maintaining 2+ ~identical texts
90b5fce2036d52ec…036d52ec…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, United States - peers: 33 - last probed: 24m ago
f113b2e747e60901…21cc6cea…2022-10-18 11:46:07 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-17 d4: crtdaydreams, I think that for now I'll just use jonsykkel's work, I've updated the age key on server and will join later as unpx.
e3ab40c547e60901…47e60901…2022-10-18 11:47:46 <crtdaydreams> Interesting q not unrelated to above for e.g. asciilifeform, phf, signpost, et al. Ettiquite for above, which should come first? Encryption or Signature?
33c4639aec1c6576…9b540db5…2023-07-03 18:34:11 <awt> Meanwhile from someone running nostr: https://twitter.com/thetractatus/status/1675675859217432577
8e88ab3dd836a9f9…e448f62a…2022-11-05 18:32:42 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015560 << the window is not representative of actual functionality™
13a5778bdeff98ce…deff98ce…2022-10-01 01:50:41 <billymg> russian speaking friend of mine just gave me another variation: "idea being if you're going to die you'll appreciate every breath"
faaa3d550d620662…0d620662…2022-10-10 16:22:20 <asciilifeform> (see e.g. the lulzy toiletpaper minsk treaties)
959e0aaf4e6ab062…4e6ab062…2022-10-14 17:18:05 <asciilifeform> PeterL: if you missed hevea thrd -- what it does is to eat a (slightly constrained) latex and produce meaningful html from same
a2719b4490b5fce2…90b5fce2…2022-10-15 23:14:51 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, United States - peers: 28 - last probed: 24m ago
ef32676ce3ab40c5…9747fea9…2022-10-18 14:03:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: for pgpgrams carrying pestkeys? sign then encrypt.
02a0cf2fe3ab40c5…e3ab40c5…2022-10-18 21:17:21 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-18#1114060 << http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=YFMF something fucky is going on with my IP, using i.e. https://ipchicken.com/ gives me a different IP address to the one listed in my router
6f9214068e88ab3d…d836a9f9…2022-11-05 18:33:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 14:09:30 asciilifeform[5]: notices that phf's pestron not fills in chains yet. but iirc was mentioned at one pt
d491835e13a5778b…7c3da625…2022-10-01 01:48:32 <phf> hmm, i don't know in which context this meaning would work
6052faddfaaa3d55…35cde480…2022-10-10 16:22:55 <signpost> yeah, I'm referring to the incident where apparently boris johnson went and ordered them not to reach an agreement this year.
0eaa4794959e0aaf…959e0aaf…2022-10-14 17:18:23 <asciilifeform> the latex orig. can be compiled normally (to printerable pdf)
52f7638aa2719b44…a2719b44…2022-10-15 23:14:52 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, United States - peers: 21 - last probed: 23m ago
607e687fef32676c…ef32676c…2022-10-18 17:25:06 <asciilifeform> ^ for n00bs: if you signed something ~for one particular $addressee~, randos who come across the paste have 0 biz knowing that you did so
d7ae64be02a0cf2f…02a0cf2f…2022-10-18 21:18:23 <crtdaydreams> the one I orig. gave (the browser one) appears not to even be online
2645581c02a0cf2f…f113b2e7…2022-10-18 21:18:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-18 d4: Okay, then I guess I'll wait for crtdaydreams' move
7db9a42bbdd4486b…bdd4486b…2022-11-05 18:08:30 asciilifeform notices that phf's pestron not fills in chains yet. but iirc was mentioned at one pt
027cad916f921406…290e30a4…2022-11-05 19:18:50 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015556 << I like it. business, yet casual.
ad435503d491835e…d491835e…2022-10-01 01:50:11 <phf> like i don't think i can construct a story, where it would be appropriate to use that saying in the meaning that he presented
ab8ac7d66052fadd…66fae7fa…2022-10-10 18:24:15 <awt> Wonder if Russia will at some point retaliate against the US for sponsering Ukr terrorist attacks.
07b77e690eaa4794…0eaa4794…2022-10-14 17:19:21 <asciilifeform> even if hevea shat alt-texts (it doesn't) -- still would be of ~0 use in a search, cuz string inside an algo box wouldn't highlight
e0a3fde252f7638a…52f7638a…2022-10-15 23:14:52 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=758846, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 23m ago
8d34e633607e687f…607e687f…2022-10-18 17:26:22 <asciilifeform> ( dun be confused by fact that in pest black packet, signature is of the ciphertext; pest signing key is symmetric (part of the seekrit key) rather than public)
0c511061d7ae64be…d7ae64be…2022-10-18 21:23:05 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: ye, but that IP isn't even online
f6f0b85af6a910ee…33c4639a…2023-07-03 18:37:35 <awt> hmm goes to a tweet for me. Anyway someone is paying $600/mo to run their nostr relay
cd517d7a7db9a42b…7db9a42b…2022-11-05 18:10:12 asciilifeform not has mac port of anyffin other than -- believe or not -- ffa, where built ~effortlessly and w/out coughing
e649d766027cad91…6f921406…2022-11-05 19:19:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 13:29:05 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015545 << you can do all kinds of ungodly things, like http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-ungodly.png
3b12af9bad435503…ad435503…2022-10-01 02:04:01 <phf> actually in practice it's usually a kind of gallows humor. you'd say that to e.g. a fellow student, when you had months to prepare for test, but ended up trying to study 5 minutes before exam or whatever. it's almost mandatory to use that saying.
6e202c30ab8ac7d6…33bc0f49…2022-10-10 18:59:24 <shinohai> lel isn't Russia already retaliating from a financial standpoint?
1c965ff107b77e69…07b77e69…2022-10-14 17:21:52 <asciilifeform> there's quite certainly (and author claimed to have baked one, but it barfs on his latest ver. ) some magick sequence of heveaistic latex defs that'll make 'algorithm' go as clean text. asciilifeform simply not found it yet, and not has much time to experiment atm
d16c5a58e0a3fde2…e0a3fde2…2022-10-15 23:14:52 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.225.16.153-8333 ][185.225.16.153] (Alive), h=139379, v=99999, Romania - peers: None - last probed: 18m ago
85784b3df6f0b85a…f6a910ee…2023-07-03 18:37:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-03#1027753 << asciilifeform fwiw not had voluntary hiatus ( and errytime found that the ugh of looking for new work mostly destroys his ability to think )
2636b28acd517d7a…cd517d7a…2022-11-05 18:11:44 asciilifeform at one time was benchmarking on various cpu, and the crapple was the only 'i7' in torture room at the time
8e0d9ca53b12af9b…13a5778b…2022-10-01 02:09:16 <billymg> he offered another, "on a deathbed you'll want every breath to extend life", which seems like a corollary to this one
14c063cf6e202c30…6052fadd…2022-10-10 18:59:29 <signpost> awt: "hybrid warfare" is ongoing. food supply chain attacks as one example.
3d0412ab1c965ff1…a2934d19…2022-10-14 17:22:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-13 18:11:50 asciilifeform[5]: ty signpost . is a 1st class headache to bake ( e.g. asciilifeform still stumped how to make 'algorithms' latex pkg work under 'hevea' -- found author's discussion but notworx at all.. )
09f108d6d16c5a58…e6bb15bc…2022-10-15 23:19:54 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-15#1014221 << new romanian node just dropped
ece7ebbedd908090…dd908090…2022-10-18 21:25:45 <crtdaydreams> d4: ip in most recent gpggram won't work either
879eacc985784b3d…e015dfc3…2023-07-03 18:39:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-03 13:54:05 signpost: tbh I did a 1.5yr hiatus, slept, partied, fucked wife, was merry.
2abf82c82636b28a…2636b28a…2022-11-05 18:12:05 <asciilifeform> would be curious to try on exotic crapples ('m1', 'm2' etc.)
b9c8c4eefcd25d03…fcd25d03…2022-11-05 21:05:55 <phf> i'm going to leave it as is, to remind myself that all life is pain
1cfc75d28e0d9ca5…325e679d…2022-10-01 02:05:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 21:42:38 phf[awt]: there's another meaning, which is basically "you had your whole life to breath, now it's a bit too late"
42769cd514c063cf…14c063cf…2022-10-10 19:00:33 <signpost> shinohai: yeah, finance oligarchs on the NATO side are starting to talk about impending US bond market implosion.
cc56ce2a3d0412ab…1c965ff1…2022-10-14 17:23:54 <asciilifeform> sadly he did not indicate what version of 'algorithm' latex pkg his hack worked with. possibly oughta try old vers, or write to him re: which
949c712d09f108d6…d4a23276…2022-10-15 23:16:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-15 19:15:02 crawlerbot: [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.225.16.153-8333 ][185.225.16.153] (Alive), h=139379, v=99999, Romania - peers: None - last probed: 18m ago
bf662741879eacc9…85784b3d…2023-07-03 18:38:32 <asciilifeform> awt: sumbody sumehwere is prolly paying xxx/mo for hosting prb or whatever nonsense
2587a36a1cfc75d2…3b12af9b…2022-10-01 02:07:38 <phf> i suspect, the way it's structure grammatically, that it used to be a punchline to a fable (which is the origin of a lot of proverbs in old cultures, they are kind of shortcuts to fables, that would be told by elders as a kind of evening activity / learning opportunity)
6618ad1442769cd5…42769cd5…2022-10-10 19:01:09 <signpost> dunno that it's russians helping that along, chinese, or just us blowing our own feet off.
ed05bc9ccc56ce2a…cc56ce2a…2022-10-14 17:31:15 <asciilifeform> this kinda thing is inescapably doomed to bitmapization, but output of 'algorithm', which is simply elaborately indented text, oughta be reasonably htmlizable.
ff5dcc359f608406…da677a18…2022-10-18 20:03:50 <dulapbot> asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 11d 18h 31m
50fc4eb5bf662741…bf662741…2023-07-03 18:39:07 <asciilifeform> awt: iirc twatter no longer loads for folx w/out account
49d9e12e2587a36a…2587a36a…2022-10-01 02:08:28 <phf> and it's original meaning was closer to that last one, "on a deathbed you'll regret breaths not taken" and similar
74fe652aed05bc9c…3d0412ab…2022-10-14 17:32:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 22:20:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: apropos of nuffin -- baking illustrations for rewritten pest spec
e34eacb646ed65aa…46ed65aa…2022-10-18 21:51:13 <crtdaydreams> d4: if you can send through your IP, and to confirm you're using the handle unpx?
8fde846a50fc4eb5…4b6d0398…2023-07-03 18:40:00 <signpost> this thing is a fake decentralized social network where volunteers are expected to foot the bill to host nodes that serve arbitrary numbers of phonefags
a90b44c449d9e12e…49d9e12e…2022-10-01 02:11:08 <phf> so there would be a story, probably literally about a man condemned to death, and as he's awating the execution, he has regrets about wasted opportunities. and then you get a pithy maxim about breaths and deathbeds
842a516c741997de…6e202c30…2022-10-10 19:04:44 <shinohai> Putin ain't dumb like the USSA media wants to paint - they cheer how dumbfuck Biden's handlers keep the fiat printer going to support the war but feels like guy has an ace in the hole.
8fd4e7a074fe652a…74fe652a…2022-10-14 18:34:39 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-13#1014130 << afaiu and you probably know already, there's no "universal" pill. you only have two solutions: bitmap and conditional replacement. if you use either at the level of the package callout, usually the result is suboptimal, so hevea author will "reverse" the package: usually an
0d2f02718fde846a…8fde846a…2023-07-03 18:40:18 <signpost> exactly the kind of thing pest should stomp to death.
becceedba90b44c4…a90b44c4…2022-10-01 02:12:51 <phf> but it has mostly lost it's original, straightforward meaning, because at some point it became a kind of a literary plaything
fe009be8842a516c…741997de…2022-10-10 19:05:31 <signpost> all he has to do is achieve defensible borders and keep selling commodities to the rest of the world.
12ecf97c8fd4e7a0…8fd4e7a0…2022-10-14 18:34:39 <phf> y particular package operates with a set of basic primitives, that you then can either bitmap or subsitute in a way that works with html
fb280abc8fd4e7a0…74fe652a…2022-10-14 18:35:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-13 18:16:58 asciilifeform[4]: maybe phf knows the pill.
3fc7706594568290…94568290…2022-10-19 06:44:46 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-18#1114061 << I really don't do enough soldering letalone desoldering to merit buying. Plus that's specifically engineered for through-hole stuff, would be better to invest in e.g. hakko iron + hot air gun first imo
400d5affbecceedb…becceedb…2022-10-01 02:14:10 <phf> because the other side is that in whatever other context you apply it, you now humorously equating some other lesser event to death. like a college exam, or a wedding, or whatever else
57fd2e6cfe009be8…d61b4275…2022-10-10 19:06:33 <PeterL> we just need to issue a few more "emergency relief stimulus checks" to everybody and it will all get better
a02855c2fb280abc…ed05bc9c…2022-10-14 18:35:46 <asciilifeform> phf: right, got notion from hevea author (see earlier link) that 'algorithms' can be hammered into straight edibility tho
ee2d15c53fc77065…3fc77065…2022-10-19 06:45:05 <crtdaydreams> can then easily desolder surface mount chips
b367afa73fc77065…2645581c…2022-10-19 06:45:41 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-18 vex: https://www.altronics.com.au/p/t2065-micron-90w-vacuum-desoldering-station/ mebbe worth tooling up if you value your time crtdaydreams
278a62861709985c…0af6d0b6…2023-07-03 18:40:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-01 20:16:17 awt[asciilifeform]: Anyone had a look at nostr?
bed4d1a1400d5aff…05de0d76…2022-10-01 02:16:48 <asciilifeform> 1 of asciilifeform's pet's favourite ru proverbs, once he explained it
2bd0acd3a02855c2…12ecf97c…2022-10-14 18:40:15 <phf> have you tried the method from hevea-usage? loading algorithm.sty directly and letting hevea do its thing?
0b19f861bed4d1a1…400d5aff…2022-10-01 02:18:35 <phf> but also like depending on how close the event is to actually or potentially being death, the saying becomes a kind of gallows humor
1e7cd1a41393c11b…fe009be8…2022-10-10 19:09:35 <signpost> going to be hilarious when a return to zero interest rates coincides with the next halving.
38060f7866ebaddb…66ebaddb…2022-10-19 08:48:07 <crtdaydreams> must be something wrong with my nat fwd setup
238a69159b93646e…278a6286…2023-07-03 18:41:41 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-01 21:42:36 asciilifeform: reich will keep twatter (which apparently essential component of the edifice) alive at whatever cost; incl. aggressively peddling 'alternatives' sprayed with faux-decentralization perfume 'until sumthing sticks'
502d40cb0b19f861…bed4d1a1…2022-10-01 02:19:51 asciilifeform apropos of nuffin -- baking illustrations for rewritten pest spec
d8ab4f5f3aa04db9…3aa04db9…2022-10-14 18:42:45 <asciilifeform> ( ln28 is particularly odd, given as even standard hevea styles have that cmd )
883e007738060f78…38060f78…2022-10-19 08:49:23 <crtdaydreams> it's likely why currently not seeing ascii, peterL, etc. as peered
3da04a9c238a6915…9b93646e…2023-07-03 18:43:51 <asciilifeform> signpost: pestronics requires very diff psychology vs twatterism (in the latter, casual 0effort users visit allcomers watering holes) so not sure how 'stomp'
449a0620502d40cb…0b19f861…2022-10-01 02:23:02 <phf> but have you gone down the TikZ rabbit hole yet?
e34e04f3e516a859…faaa3d55…2022-10-10 21:11:46 asciilifeform fwiw not noticed any interesting effect from last halving. or the 1 before that, or the 1 before...
592951b8883e0077…883e0077…2022-10-19 08:51:27 crtdaydreams may take some time for chains to sync across all peers
f74cfdc33da04a9c…0d2f0271…2023-07-03 18:46:00 <signpost> yeah, that topology is the problem. but I see no problem with information propagating over a wot-topology letting me see France burn.
4c354092e34e04f3…b9fb31d3…2022-10-10 21:11:47 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-18 asciilifeform: not noticed any interesting macroscopic effect from halving cycles, to date
47089df0592951b8…592951b8…2022-10-19 08:51:56 <crtdaydreams> unpx: going to also suggest to tweak the gdint knob, add an extra couple zeroes
69c3b1e091f4202c…91f4202c…2022-10-01 02:23:59 <asciilifeform> phf: was thoroughly stumped why randomly choked hevea, until found lolbug
a371a4cf4c354092…a6954491…2022-10-10 21:14:38 <scoopbot> New post on Blog of Peter Lambert: [ http://peterl.xyz/2022/10/mi-sitelen-e-toki-pona/ ][ mi sitelen e Toki Pona ]
29bd028245fa097a…3da04a9c…2023-07-03 19:40:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: rright, can have anyffin you like once in the wot. but asciilifeform suspects that most of the 'ohnoez twatter censored' folx aint clearing that 'this tall to ride'
c1a477d0a371a4cf…1e7cd1a4…2022-10-10 21:40:06 <signpost> asciilifeform: I still have no idea what you're talking about on that subj. there were huge price movements up in each 4 year cycle.
26fc916a573e196d…04163d03…2022-10-14 18:54:46 asciilifeform not expects other folx to do the work. q was strictly in case phf et al have answr 'up sleeve'.
b21159aa29bd0282…29bd0282…2023-07-03 19:41:53 asciilifeform also (and iirc discussed at length) notes that broadcast nets over ~100 nodes prolly not physically practical
d97a4a4b5a50ab9c…69c3b1e0…2022-10-01 02:25:50 <asciilifeform> likely, subj not even exists outside of dulap-gentoo & its rather vintage toolchain
76b913acc1a477d0…c1a477d0…2022-10-10 22:06:53 <signpost> although asciilifeform may win on a technicality this cycle as it's unclear whether USD in present form has enough time left to live.
3462cac526fc916a…573e196d…2022-10-14 18:56:39 <phf> yeah, i figured, i just remembered going through this exercise with other packages, i thought maybe i remembered something. but with latex there's no such luck
e64ec6c4b21159aa…b21159aa…2023-07-03 19:42:53 <asciilifeform> no reason you can't have arbitrarily many separate ones, tho (sporadically connected to 1 anuther)
771c8b6fd97a4a4b…d97a4a4b…2022-10-01 02:26:06 <asciilifeform> ( hevea author -- not wrote back, unsurprise )
32f99bb676b913ac…e34e04f3…2022-10-11 00:12:16 <asciilifeform> signpost: no.1 & no.2 obv. happened when lift was goin'up. asciilifeform not convinced of the causality tho ftr
3b9f34d03462cac5…26fc916a…2022-10-14 18:58:41 <asciilifeform> not so much publicly posted in the way of heveaism examples, sadly
338325f6771c8b6f…5a50ab9c…2022-10-01 02:27:52 <phf> but also https://habr.com/en/post/454376/ you should introduce old time perelman style illustrations to pest spec
d26723f232f99bb6…32f99bb6…2022-10-11 04:13:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-10#1014077 << mnotquite. 'slav detroit'
996abc823b9f34d0…3b9f34d0…2022-10-14 18:59:33 <asciilifeform> there's evidence that some folx use it: some stylesheets etc. but nuffin 'hightech'
71abc7e873b1d6af…73b1d6af…2022-10-22 03:49:40 <crtdaydreams> /https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngs_avYOPqY
c00c10c9e0e2d097…e0e2d097…2023-07-03 19:43:35 <asciilifeform> this kinda thing not fully explored yet, asciilifeform's pov is that one 1st oughta get the basics 100% right
09026f97d26723f2…4039d459…2022-10-11 04:14:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-10 12:22:14 shinohai: s/ukraine/slav alabama/g
3a527dfa996abc82…3462cac5…2022-10-14 19:01:13 <phf> it's high technology to begin with, necessarily has very low usage (to use effectively requires understanding of tex model, latex model, "macro" model, and alternative macro backend out of the door to wield effectively)
3cac0b43c00c10c9…c00c10c9…2023-07-03 19:46:49 <asciilifeform> orthogonally to the above tho, bitcoinism seems to have shown that the req of 'seekoorely generate and keep keys' imposes much higher 'iq cut' than anybody anticipated
29b8b9931526b3bb…1526b3bb…2022-10-01 02:31:39 <asciilifeform> -- in misc. related oldlulz re folx seeing problem illustrated in pic and coming to strange conclusions
7745fdb909026f97…e516a859…2022-10-11 11:34:06 <PeterL> I've driven through Detroit, and from the images we see on the news it looks like Ukraine needs a few more months of bombings to catch up
4d40f765135b3209…135b3209…2022-10-28 20:21:46 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014579 << very cool; sadly now completely out of stock on lulzalon and other webshit. Instead got https://radiona.org/ulx3s/
681bf9293cac0b43…3cac0b43…2023-07-03 19:47:36 <asciilifeform> ( resulting in most participants simply play-acting at participation, goxes and even this sorta lul )
e434f77429b8b993…338325f6…2022-10-01 02:33:09 <phf> rbtb has this odd combination of old school pragmatism, but also too often comming to iffy conclusions
9a83b7e37745fdb9…842a516c…2022-10-11 15:02:53 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-11#1014103 << top kek :)
8ff1e7cd63265504…3a527dfa…2022-10-14 19:03:25 <phf> tbh i stopped using latex, altogether, because i've moved all my documents to plain tex (way i reason learning very slow moving targets like plain.tex or eplain.tex and doing it the texbook way is more future proof than trying to keep up with latex internal changes. but of course the tradeoff is that the answer to "how do
fb58a358c9512ee2…1f3f09c7…2022-10-23 18:34:15 asciilifeform meanwhile still stuck on this nonsense. tried various packages, 'algorithmic', 'algorithmicx', 'algorithm2e'; they all use various crud that hevea dun support (e.g. tex's 'edef' command; or 'float')
84856f794d40f765…8d21c916…2022-10-28 20:22:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 13:56:27 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014566 << fwiw there are nao ice40-compat. ('ecp5', ~83k LUTs) w/ gb nic, for signpost's old idea re 'filter for validly signed incoming packets in dc'
0bdf9a054d40f765…4d40f765…2022-10-28 20:22:50 <crtdaydreams> Likely ULX3S will arrive before Icebreaker and TinyFPGA ordered in May
50ba7d8a681bf929…879eacc9…2023-07-03 19:49:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-03 14:39:14 awt: hmm goes to a tweet for me. Anyway someone is paying $600/mo to run their nostr relay
c90c3e58e434f774…e434f774…2022-10-01 02:34:04 <phf> like the style and the personality reminds me of locklin, and i'm along for the ride, but inevitable i have to drop off, because there will be a "wait, what? whyyy" moment
9828bf8a9a83b7e3…09026f97…2022-10-11 15:03:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-11 07:34:57 PeterL: I've driven through Detroit, and from the images we see on the news it looks like Ukraine needs a few more months of bombings to catch up
ba0c59a2fb58a358…ce0289be…2022-10-23 18:35:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-14 14:36:37 asciilifeform[5]: phf: right, got notion from hevea author (see earlier link) that 'algorithms' can be hammered into straight edibility tho
1d100a9e84856f79…4cc0605b…2022-10-28 20:22:39 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: well, no nic on that one, but if yer simply getting into the subj, will suffice (tho arguably overkill for n00b)
99ad76a950ba7d8a…45fa097a…2023-07-03 20:18:00 <signpost> I suspect the generative AI spam problem is going to put more pressure on this, but we’ll find out.
c857648cc90c3e58…29b8b993…2022-10-01 02:35:31 <asciilifeform> saw similar pieces re ye olde irc and its forced spanning tree, and inescapably they end with 'and so we need this 100kloc of gnarly auto-consensus coad , let's learn from shitcoins' etc
74b877549828bf8a…33581d77…2022-10-11 15:04:03 <shinohai> Detroit: "But of course there is Pb!" (tm) (r)
ab3d5174617178ac…617178ac…2022-10-14 19:05:06 <phf> which also means that i use texinfo to produce technical documents, but looking at your hevea output i'm a bit jelous, because i know texinfo won't give me something that pretty out of the box
dd8ff3f1ba0c59a2…fb58a358…2022-10-23 18:37:00 asciilifeform continues to look for algo pkg short enuff to manually civilize
f1560bd099ad76a9…00000000…2023-07-03 20:30:40 <phf> signpost, you took offense, where none was meant or intended. normally we'd talk it out, but i was literally walking out when i stopped talking, and then i was in transit since then
0cf12807c857648c…c857648c…2022-10-01 02:35:55 <asciilifeform> unsurprisingly they never end with 'let's all<->all graph' cuz 'not scales'(tm)(r)
9e6c691b74b87754…d26723f2…2022-10-11 17:25:36 <asciilifeform> awt, signpost, jonsykkel, phf, et al: meanwhile, in spec preview tidbits.
570b4858ab3d5174…63265504…2022-10-14 19:06:56 <asciilifeform> it's the usual grrchoice b/w 'heathen libs, theoretically nice if they work' and 'bake own errything outta raw $turtlegraphics'
07a463cddd8ff3f1…dd8ff3f1…2022-10-23 21:53:18 asciilifeform in the end turned up this comparatively minimal textism, but even it relies on 5 diff. knobs that aint in 'hevea', grr
1bb85382cf4b2f2b…1d100a9e…2022-10-28 20:24:36 asciilifeform recs to folx to get to the 'blink led at 1hz' stage before ponying up for fat fpga boards
71857ec9f1560bd0…f1560bd0…2023-07-03 20:31:06 <phf> the comment was a historic perspective on why the sorry state of canonical vtools source: it was conformant with the particular tmsr perspective that was being violated even as tmsr was still around. the only judgement call there was about tar-balls of vtools specifically, particul H/f&3AlV|{FsZv k 5e
2226b2c50cf12807…0cf12807…2022-10-01 02:43:08 <asciilifeform> ( there's likely a 'you won't get tenure for 'unclever' solution that simplyworx' component in there
e042dbc5570b4858…ab3d5174…2022-10-14 19:09:17 <phf> "i'm 70 and here's my 400mb of handwritten postscript code. this one is a hack that i used to visualize instrument valuation when i made my millions at BigBank, and this one is the one i used to model my beach house extensions couple of years ago"
149342921bb85382…45e247c3…2022-10-28 20:31:49 <signpost> crtdaydreams: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09X275SL6/ << says 5 left in stock over here, but could be oz-specific shortage on your end?
e9ef5fd625438e50…25438e50…2022-10-28 20:33:17 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014602 << wise words
d28e177071857ec9…71857ec9…2023-07-03 20:31:06 <phf> arly by the people who ought to know better, and i had diana comman in mind. this is how it came to be that vtools doesn't have canonical source, one was supposed to pull them patch-by-patch, but in reality everyone was rolling tarballs H/f&3AlV|{FsZv k 5e
9e97b6d32226b2c5…b291c217…2022-10-01 02:43:09 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-08-07 asciilifeform: because 'you can't get tenure by saying let's-use-rsa' and you won't get $trillion if you ~do~ dig up the old blueprint
935247dca6b8b68a…76b913ac…2022-10-11 17:56:21 <signpost> pretty cool! looking forward to reading the new spec
8b0e38c8e042dbc5…570b4858…2022-10-14 19:10:17 asciilifeform not 70 but sweated out fair share of ps gnarl, incl. autogenned in horrendous ways from various crapola (genomics turds etc)
fa187a72e9ef5fd6…84856f79…2022-10-28 20:34:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 16:23:36 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: well, no nic on that one, but if yer simply getting into the subj, will suffice (tho arguably overkill for n00b)
c0dab7e7e9ef5fd6…e9ef5fd6…2022-11-02 21:22:10 <crtdaydreams> re:fpga the icestorm creator's webshit appears to be [hacked?][https://clifford.at/]
fbb2680cd28e1770…d28e1770…2023-07-03 20:31:41 <phf> the only reason i mentioned pentacle is because pentacle's approach is one other alternative to tarballs, and the people who are just tuning in might misunderstand the original intent. whether or not your approach is the valid one, from historic tmsr perspective, it's different, an ]oZ+ <=Q<+` M :
5e0d6db09e97b6d3…778808ba…2022-10-01 03:36:49 <awt> Didn't meant to imply CR is heaven and US is hell. Simply, moving countries while working towards a project deadline is hell.
c7525fa4935247dc…a6b8b68a…2022-10-11 17:57:23 asciilifeform shitting it out at, sadly, snail's pace. but coupla sects. done
0ec2e0f18b0e38c8…8b0e38c8…2022-10-14 19:10:37 asciilifeform not eager to do it again if can weasel out
d8cfa2ecfbb2680c…fbb2680c…2023-07-03 20:31:41 <phf> d it does "hide" the patches from user, compared to the "carefully download patch one by one, read and sign" of the original design ]oZ+ <=Q<+` M :
5d2a1399c7525fa4…c7525fa4…2022-10-11 17:58:07 <asciilifeform> buncha things given imho less-nonsensical names, and ordered reasonably (instead of the lulorder in the markdown turd)
35b45e9ed8cfa2ec…d8cfa2ec…2023-07-03 20:32:04 <phf> we could further discuss if that's actually the case and the why's and the who's, but that's not to be, because i basically had a day of quite mulling over the things you said about me, and i have no interest or desire to be communicate with you any further
545d6704d8cfa2ec…681bf929…2023-07-03 21:19:16 <asciilifeform> sadly pest proto offers no way for 2 d00dz to duke it out and then drink & 'be brothers', eh. ( asciilifeform not 100% understands the conflict , but aint his biz , by all indications it aint about fine points of vtronics )
518908638d5f4637…8157a819…2022-10-01 19:07:32 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-30#1013535 << yep, our household has gone to hm, 6-7 concerts this year?
b33d4f085d2a1399…08c015be…2022-10-11 18:57:18 <awt> Looks good. Will help visual thinkers such as myself.
8b8bdb792aee57d6…2aee57d6…2022-10-14 19:16:30 <asciilifeform> (this worx a++ in heveaism cuz bitmapized, naturally)
4ae70230a93414c1…a93414c1…2022-11-02 21:32:59 <crtdaydreams> yeha doods webshit defo hacked and shilling btc casino
55d10d1435b45e9e…99ad76a9…2023-07-03 20:32:59 <signpost> yep we can manage that. enough said all around.
9efdf5b7545d6704…545d6704…2023-07-03 21:19:42 asciilifeform not grasped it the prev 3 (?) times either
4c1a7c2051890863…1cfc75d2…2022-10-01 19:08:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 21:40:05 phf[awt]: it's closer to your interpretation, but more like "you might as well relax while waiting for death"
c2a734a6b33d4f08…5d2a1399…2022-10-11 20:11:29 asciilifeform orig. thought 'oughta illustrate the chain hashes, forks, etc mechanics', then, 'may as well errything'
735c00d68b8bdb79…e042dbc5…2022-10-14 19:16:45 <phf> of course peak generated postscript is the gratuitous branch cut visualization in cltl2
dd115f064ae70230…4ae70230…2022-11-02 21:33:23 <crtdaydreams> had to double take after looking at twatter
cbc4b74e9efdf5b7…9efdf5b7…2023-07-03 21:20:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-03#1027791 << this, must say, is imho 100% factual. even at 'peak tmsr' folx were not consistently 'eating the dog food'
ca9136abd00b36ce…d00b36ce…2022-10-24 14:29:26 <asciilifeform> phf: hevea theoretically supports indentation fiddling, so went to try an' bake sumthing like 'clrscode' with it. but nodice yet
3168860acbc4b74e…50ba7d8a…2023-07-03 21:22:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-03 16:32:46 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: the comment was a historic perspective on why the sorry state of canonical vtools source: it was conformant with the particular tmsr perspective that was being violated even as tmsr was still around. the only judgement call there was about tar-balls of vtools sp
6bf65b38fb575abc…735c00d6…2022-10-14 19:18:26 <phf> i've been meaning to do like a highres polyptych of those for the office
36dbc6e7b1cf34b2…b1cf34b2…2022-11-02 21:35:26 <crtdaydreams> [twatter ftr][https://twitter.com/oe1cxw]
d59e10a83168860a…cbc4b74e…2023-07-03 21:22:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-03#1027789 << personally looking fwd to watching the allcomer derps drown in own shit
8291e397e36282ae…e36282ae…2022-10-01 19:29:25 <signpost> and in fact, a little signpost that hasn't arrived yet has been to several of those.
4dbea7ab36dbc6e7…144743e3…2022-11-02 21:36:13 <phf> yah, i got curious how bad it could be, i've paid a dear price
4e1fe4add59e10a8…3168860a…2023-07-03 21:24:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-03 16:19:46 signpost: I suspect the generative AI spam problem is going to put more pressure on this, but we’ll find out.
d7931d488291e397…8291e397…2022-10-01 19:30:13 <signpost> when the world's ending, why not bet everything. you'll either win, or die, and you were going to die anyway.
3a06c06deb5d17e7…eb5d17e7…2022-10-14 19:19:32 <asciilifeform> point n00bs to coordinates. (or w/ laser, lol)
e5cc4944e6c2a0e3…5161446d…2022-10-24 17:07:38 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011760 << still ready
d0aa4b30fb6f165c…fb6f165c…2022-11-02 21:46:08 <crtdaydreams> I don't trust any src from this person to be untampered with, considering they seem unable to secure a machine that serves html opposed to an entire development toolchain.
fbe5a4724e1fe4ad…d59e10a8…2023-07-03 21:24:50 <asciilifeform> ( they'll try to swim, via sumthing like this, but in the end ~will~ drown )
64be10c33a06c06d…6bf65b38…2022-10-14 19:20:26 <phf> (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node129.html)
7768e32ee5cc4944…ba0c59a2…2022-10-24 17:08:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-28 15:42:01 awt: Yeah. I'm ready.
d226aa51d0aa4b30…4dbea7ab…2022-11-02 21:49:14 <phf> crtdaydreams, i don't know why you had to misgender her, her pronunce are clearly identified in her twitter about and it's not they/them. it's 2022 and we still have to have that conversation!
3a944e2ed0aa4b30…76efa8a7…2022-11-02 21:49:23 <shinohai> lol I haven't checked logs of poor alf's irc in so long didn't notice this until now unpx http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-10-21#1114150
e755023164be10c3…3a06c06d…2022-10-14 19:21:51 <asciilifeform> hmm the maffisms look rather pixely there (quite unlike the deadtree iirc)
58df89f43a944e2e…bf9e9bbe…2022-11-02 21:49:30 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-21 d4: shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=E1ht
48c444cce85589f1…55d10d14…2023-07-03 21:44:31 <signpost> yeah, in practice a derp uses maybe 5 websites, and those via app-wrapper, so this part exists. don't need orwell's force when huxley's pulling your dick.
790f8658e7550231…64be10c3…2022-10-14 19:22:27 <phf> i think there are better renditions of cltl, but that's the canonical source
d9e6af4b453325e6…d226aa51…2022-11-02 21:52:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015354 << thank you, lord, for reminding me that your way is true, etc.
bb3ab5a1453325e6…453325e6…2022-11-03 03:06:05 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015379 << dun make sense, site itself still links to fpga stuff and shithub links to site
aa1998ce48c444cc…48c444cc…2023-07-03 21:44:51 <signpost> musk has explicitly stated "copy weechat" in terms of twatter aspiration.
5f3a22c1790f8658…790f8658…2022-10-14 19:23:20 <phf> apparantly there's also a partial ru translation https://filonenko-mikhail.github.io/cltl2-doc/enpdf/cltl2.pdf
83aa9216d9e6af4b…2a0aa57b…2022-11-02 21:53:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:45:09 signpost: woof.
23462f1ebb3ab5a1…745d85f5…2022-11-03 03:07:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 19:20:43 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: not necessarily hacked, btw -- domain expir'd
2aa423c2bb3ab5a1…bb3ab5a1…2022-11-03 03:11:18 <crtdaydreams> xhttp://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015375 << [Another one for the collection...][http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=polish+turd&chan=all] (no offence to the poles)
8c0d8a0f5f3a22c1…e7550231…2022-10-14 19:24:16 asciilifeform fwiw rather astonished that umd is hosting mirror of cltl. recently walked their www, 'what became of these people?', found moar or less what expected to find -- ai class w/out lisp, 500 megatonnes of 'mozart'
c7e7174083aa9216…db29fcc0…2022-11-02 21:58:25 <signpost> at this point yurp falling to islam would be a vast improvement.
0fd96cc42aa423c2…2aa423c2…2022-11-03 03:11:25 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015375 << [Another one for the collection...][http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=polish+turd&chan=all] (no offence to the poles)
04388cff2aa423c2…23462f1e…2022-11-03 03:12:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 19:14:27 asciilifeform[6]: shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
f315c224d813babf…d813babf…2023-07-03 21:45:48 <signpost> probably the "5 websites" all end up verifying the equiv of govt ID. his paid tier already does that.
338fd17c8c0d8a0f…a0ad74b8…2022-10-14 19:24:16 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-06-22 asciilifeform: 'You can routinely find lecturers with more than a hundred published papers and you marvel at these paradigms of human creativity. These are people, you think, who are fit to challenge Mozart who wrote a hundred pieces or more of music. And then you get puzzled that, in this modern wor
280152ca0fd96cc4…04388cff…2022-11-03 03:12:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 19:14:27 asciilifeform[6]: shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
e8244a25338fd17c…5f3a22c1…2022-10-14 19:25:45 <phf> i think the hosting probably comes with “legacy” athena exposed endpoints
cbeb059dedc52266…edc52266…2022-11-02 21:59:54 <phf> because there's a handful of tweets (i'm down the rabbit hole) of interacting with transphobic austrian medical services written in a way that seem to imply being an outsider
aa66a0d1f70d9349…f70d9349…2022-11-03 03:13:58 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: (I would like the old vers plox, tarred and signed preferrably)
318f7949103425cf…103425cf…2023-07-03 22:41:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: their latest orwellism seems to be this
15d6d991e8244a25…8c0d8a0f…2022-10-14 19:26:32 <asciilifeform> there's crapola from '90s there, waiting for a disk to burn out and the hosting box to hit scrapyard, suspect
979e9bb215d6d991…15d6d991…2022-10-14 19:27:46 asciilifeform at one time visited their surplus yard ~daily (lived next door) in search of lispms. but never saw any, and nfi whether any were even in use in ye olde shithole
4a65f05e725dc5f1…725dc5f1…2022-11-02 22:02:09 signpost has been browsing the "detrans" folks lately too.
8397e674b7027b22…b7027b22…2022-11-03 03:25:38 <crtdaydreams> Bare minimum is an audit (curious if ascii or anyone else has read da sauce)
076e407abe534ba2…238a6915…2023-07-03 22:42:21 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2013-09-14 asciilifeform: damn it all, i'm still waiting for SlaveCoin.
c0dcf5d0cc539f2b…19486376…2022-10-02 18:48:44 asciilifeform meanwhile tried to embed a simple utf8ism in 'data types' section to illustrate 'UString'; thought '2min job', ended up in astonishing hell of 'latex w/ other than latin? lol. and here are over9000 piles of kludge which dunwork'
69580fc4979e9bb2…e8244a25…2022-10-14 19:28:03 <phf> pretty much, “myself, prof such-and-such, and my team of young rapscallions, have replaced this old athena thing with a gmail and google docs! come learn with us at umd, a modern school, through and through!”
dc51182b979e9bb2…979e9bb2…2022-10-14 19:28:11 <asciilifeform> got a pile of last-gasp dec alphas tho & 'infinite' spares
e1cfb4b94a65f05e…4a65f05e…2022-11-02 22:02:52 <signpost> it's sad stuff, woke parents/teachers/etc pushing the kids into the castration cult.
49c193a38397e674…8397e674…2022-11-03 03:28:02 <crtdaydreams> [only relevant sauce in question atm][https://github.com/f4pga/prjtrellis]
ccc5d460076e407a…f315c224…2023-07-03 22:54:43 <signpost> takes a san francisco mentality to not immediately go to eye gouging with this.
21d04a56c0dcf5d0…c0dcf5d0…2022-10-02 18:50:45 <asciilifeform> latest loldiscovery is that the macros '\begin{htmlonly}'/'\end{htmlonly}' in hevea (to fence off a kludge that only needed for html output from proper latex) dun actually work ~at all~ (at least on asciilifeform's install).
ac620bb9e1cfb4b9…e1cfb4b9…2022-11-02 22:03:35 <signpost> makes me wonder whether there's a mechanism which *WILL* impose a filter upon reproduction no matter how unthreatening the environment becomes.
8dd5ba0c49c193a3…4ce710dc…2022-11-03 03:28:35 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: asciilifeform neither audited it nor intends to , is elephantine
7bb26ca3ccc5d460…be534ba2…2023-07-03 22:55:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: gouged eye generally not worx with eye lock (demands pulse) hence popularity of eye locks in usg hells etc
a9819f6f21d04a56…21d04a56…2022-10-02 18:51:59 <asciilifeform> ( on actual latex apparently ~can~ insert orcograms with a lolkludge using ancient ibm encodings -- but hevea in fact eats utf. )
c2a2c60840578e36…69580fc4…2022-10-14 19:30:01 <phf> athena still surviving because some centenial checks his mail with pine, and doesn't want to switch. occasionally a bushy tailed youngster sshas in and discovers old magic to be rebuked "why are you wastng your time, lets write SCRATCH code for our RASPBERRIES instead!"
d9870f4a2b219674…2b219674…2022-11-03 03:29:36 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: intend to use proprietary binturds?
75ab1f30a9819f6f…23e43997…2022-10-02 18:57:55 <phf> asciilifeform, tex can't utf, so any language extension like latex requires cludges. there's over9000 of those, but if you "just want to"™ then you can easily use any of the alternative tex engines, built with latex extension. probably out of the box you'll have xelatex or lualatex. both talk utf native
4d85c1b3c2a2c608…40578e36…2022-10-14 19:30:25 asciilifeform for a while 'ghost' at umd's cs dpt, ineptly hunting for 'survivers' -- interesting people somehow still employed via bureaucratic oversight. but got tired
069081c5d9870f4a…8dd5ba0c…2022-11-03 03:30:34 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: at one time used xilinx's (for e.g. FG) but not intending to again
713ff29f006d379f…7bb26ca3…2023-07-03 22:55:52 <asciilifeform> simpler to capture & crack the lock, which reportedly actually contains privkey
03b945d375ab1f30…75ab1f30…2022-10-02 18:59:02 <phf> xetex and luatex pass triptest and are tex for all practical purposes (hence legally have "tex" in name), but are otherwise built with gigabytes of liquishit required to support "modern" environment
3219acf74d85c1b3…4d85c1b3…2022-10-14 19:32:18 <asciilifeform> 2-3 of the profs from 20y ago still there, 'mozarting'; the rest -- aged out, replaced w/ the expected asian chix etc
cee32367069081c5…069081c5…2022-11-03 03:31:17 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: if you think about it, there aint a meaningful attack vector against fpga proggy ( author of boobytrap has nfi what you intend to put and where )
a133c19a713ff29f…713ff29f…2023-07-03 22:56:15 <asciilifeform> ( in most contexts where 'retina lock' is used, this is tricky on acct of 2 d00dz with rifles standing next to subj )
aba0177e03b945d3…03b945d3…2022-10-02 19:08:08 <phf> (and in before "it dun work!11", both of the engines, like all tex, use computer modern by default, so your extra unicode characters won't appear, since they are not in comuter modern. you can select whatever alternative font, including your system fonts, using https://ctan.org/pkg/fontspec)
da677a183219acf7…338fd17c…2022-10-14 19:32:19 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-06-26 mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/on-the-elaine-shi-and-andrew-miller-scam-ring/ <<< if anyone else feels inclined to voice their concerns re the fraud being perpetuated against umd, please do so, either towards the people there listed or anyone else you think appropriate.
35116b46cee32367…cee32367…2022-11-03 03:31:48 <asciilifeform> concern is moar re 'does the synth tool rm -rf /' etc
003cd3cd30c4ce7d…d91d320f…2022-11-03 03:35:02 <asciilifeform> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/icestorm-master.zip fwiw, sha256:dcf78fbe525887f5e8c363a8039ffd5f00fd23b5127b5f0f86eae4b9b743ce5f
e3f38e20a133c19a…a133c19a…2023-07-03 22:56:32 <asciilifeform> but here seems to be precisely the ticket (if anybody could be arsed)
f5af83b3aba0177e…aba0177e…2022-10-02 19:09:33 <phf> (and in before "i'm asciilifeform and everything is shit" here's the minimal latex document that compiles with xelatex on my system http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=k7Y8 )
5eee4c50003cd3cd…003cd3cd…2022-11-03 03:35:25 asciilifeform aint aboutta sign it, is steaming pile which made ~0 effort to read
3ba88b88c8a6bc7e…c8a6bc7e…2022-11-03 10:47:30 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015216 << putting the name to the face is initially quite jarring
bda12227f5af83b3…f5af83b3…2022-10-02 19:20:51 <phf> also, i don't know what you're smoking, but this works for me, re htmlonly, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=dtpv
7771ca6d7db63804…7db63804…2022-11-03 03:37:30 <asciilifeform> the thing is a reversing tool; the pertinent proggy is 'yosys'
9f97a7f43ba88b88…a43e0246…2022-11-03 10:48:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 10:43:52 asciilifeform[4]: shinohai: photo is defo of same fella ( met him in at mp's thing in '14 )
566d3bac3ba88b88…3ba88b88…2022-11-03 10:53:09 <crtdaydreams> serves as a pertinent reminder there is a human behind the bitstream
3ea9227cbda12227…a9819f6f…2022-10-02 21:43:35 asciilifeform after posting earlier, turned up some of the items phf mentioned, still fiddling; likely botched sumthing in own setup
6d1003b0b64ddb9e…c2a2c608…2022-10-14 19:35:24 <phf> pretty sure it's in #t logs and older, the disconnect between "a hallowed place of learning" and the reality. i sort of realized that umd is not an ivy, but was still shocked at what i observed
68f56fad566d3bac…566d3bac…2022-11-03 15:20:53 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015413 and http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015349 what it looks like and i've never seen something like that before, is that it's a wp targeted attack, with a sprinkle of text recognition. could be for example a custom template, or a template patch that's based on recognizing
d102fe3c566d3bac…566d3bac…2022-11-04 23:34:54 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: seems to me more of a combination of [whoarding][http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012014], which is parallel to "why pirate games if easier to buy?"
3cab1cd73ea9227c…3ea9227c…2022-10-02 21:47:31 <asciilifeform> tried 'luatex' (on asciilifeform's box, 0.76.0-2013... tried to upgrade -- and earlier, to inst. xelatex -- but sank in dep hell) and phf's example chokes w/ 'File `luaotfload.sty' not found.'
e2f729996d1003b0…b64ddb9e…2022-10-14 19:35:57 asciilifeform has even nfi where worse, the various umds or 'ivies'
df9990d90e0c6a98…0e0c6a98…2022-11-03 03:38:09 <asciilifeform> the ver on asciilifeform's box is 0.7+259
4370403968f56fad…68f56fad…2022-11-03 15:20:53 <phf> existing template conventions. so you plop it in and get a spam/legitimate hybrid, that it's hard to figure out what's going on. really quite clever
ffc34c7368f56fad…9f97a7f4…2022-11-03 15:21:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 23:07:03 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015379 << dun make sense, site itself still links to fpga stuff and shithub links to site
5136664cd102fe3c…d102fe3c…2022-11-04 23:35:47 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: seems to me more of a combination of [whoarding][http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-31#1012014], "why even read books when can watch vidya of neighbors cat?" which is parallel to "why pirate games if easier to buy?"
c7fb1937d102fe3c…79948da4…2022-11-04 23:35:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 08:54:01 phf[awt]: i'll go out on a limb and say that i suspect that not a single digital copy of taocp that's circulating in pirate version has ever been read, and that it's all larp and chan style hoarding “got some lit warez bro, makes you smart”
2d4ea15c3cab1cd7…3cab1cd7…2022-10-02 21:50:30 <asciilifeform> phf: re: heveaism in particular -- does this work as described in manual on your box ?
8a9c480de2f72999…6d1003b0…2022-10-14 19:36:11 <phf> and there were brief periods when umd was trying to be part of the whole mit-in-the-70s thing, connected to athena, contributed to the whole "global interschool network" initiative
178e04a6ffc34c73…ffc34c73…2022-11-03 15:21:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:35:16 phf[awt]: shoulda used mp-wp
3778123b5136664c…5136664c…2022-11-04 23:36:46 crtdaydreams threatens to throw combined surface area of 'enter' key out the metaphorical window
a900c1935136664c…c7fb1937…2022-11-04 23:36:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-31 08:54:01 phf[awt]: i'll go out on a limb and say that i suspect that not a single digital copy of taocp that's circulating in pirate version has ever been read, and that it's all larp and chan style hoarding “got some lit warez bro, makes you smart”
76c5f8ad8a9c480d…e2f72999…2022-10-14 19:37:22 asciilifeform recalls prof bragging re um being, supposedly, 1 of 1st to get actual computer (surplus 'minuteman' guidance block, lol)
8262ddea8f06475e…8f06475e…2022-11-03 03:42:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015413 << indeed, not noticed (apparently in sidebar)
400144ad178e04a6…79db6b98…2022-11-03 15:45:29 <asciilifeform> phf: erred on side of pure spamola tho ( asciilifeform looked twice, and not noticed the older material, until 3rd time when cdd pointed out )
c22b9f413778123b…6e68a3c1…2022-11-04 23:50:58 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: hoarding w4r3z tho is actually 'socially beneficial' activity imho, tho, ~iff~ you make it avail. to folx who either find it edible, or in turn pass it on to ... etc
e6cd1a593778123b…3778123b…2022-11-05 00:38:35 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-04#1015495 << not knocking building up a collection, I've been putting together my own fully labelled collection which will hopefully find the bw to distribute. point was establishing the correlation between decent warez (specifcally lack thereof) and demand
c3539de1c6ecf9e5…c6ecf9e5…2022-10-02 21:52:42 <asciilifeform> ( and neither does e.g. this, tho fails differently -- under hevea, neither block executes, while under standard latex, ~both~ appear to )
e8f49c4176c5f8ad…8a9c480d…2022-10-14 19:37:24 <phf> asciilifeform, these days i don't know. but i if nothing else it's much easier to find “ruins of medieval castles” in cambridge, uk rather than toledo, oh
a43e02468262ddea…280152ca…2022-11-03 03:43:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 23:07:03 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015379 << dun make sense, site itself still links to fpga stuff and shithub links to site
67cd5727400144ad…0c046f21…2022-11-03 18:01:35 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015391 << dang, xorshift is simple!
3b97f600c22b9f41…c22b9f41…2022-11-04 23:52:02 asciilifeform did fair share of 'grab over9000 scans, cuz they're there and disk is cheap' but often enuff ~yrs~ later actually went and put to use
14e08ad6e6cd1a59…a900c193…2022-11-05 00:39:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-04 19:51:57 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: hoarding w4r3z tho is actually 'socially beneficial' activity imho, tho, ~iff~ you make it avail. to folx who either find it edible, or in turn pass it on to ... etc
cf91904fe6cd1a59…e6cd1a59…2022-11-05 21:53:05 <crtdaydreams> phf: the comic sans is mwah *chefs kiss*
d0ba2adddd723e9a…4b919e46…2022-11-05 03:04:20 <asciilifeform> ACTION meanwhile went on a dig of 'sane multi-os gui libs?' in re: 'adult pestron', where threads, arbitrarily long msgs, jpg, files, etc and found -- just like 20y ago -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-03#1070913]['wx' and 'qt' -- only game
cf8322f79a90c302…9a90c302…2023-07-04 17:53:02 <lobbes> awt: btw, my peering info, if you'd like: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HRKm
239c798cc3539de1…c3539de1…2022-10-02 21:52:50 <asciilifeform> in the former example, neither executes
a8a71472e8f49c41…76c5f8ad…2022-10-14 19:38:13 <asciilifeform> phf: possibly even that moar 'ruins' at provincial shithole than in megabux+overactive redguards mits
491d00eb67cd5727…178e04a6…2022-11-03 18:02:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 19:27:14 asciilifeform[4]: signpost: try marsaglia
839af2733b97f600…3b97f600…2022-11-04 23:53:36 <asciilifeform> 'put to use' dun always mean 'directly', either. (e.g. was learning graph theory waste of time? from one pov -- yes. but from pov of where realized that 'all to all' propagation of signed messages was practical -- not)
717196b1cf91904f…cf91904f…2022-11-05 22:22:12 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: is the 3620 composite video?
7388ac8cd0ba2add…47174616…2022-11-05 03:04:20 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 22:16:12 asciilifeform: imho an 'adult' pestron oughta support inline img, optionally displayed. we aint there yet tho
1531af26cf8322f7…ff6608f3…2023-07-04 18:52:48 <unpx> Found this amusing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4To-F6W1NT0
860af0be239c798c…239c798c…2022-10-02 21:54:22 <asciilifeform> ftr the latextron asciilifeform had been using, was: 'pdfTeX 3.1415926-2.5-1.40.14 (TeX Live 2013)'.
e7c4b5a9a8a71472…a8a71472…2022-10-14 19:39:00 asciilifeform not been to any mits, so cannot comment concretely
6d5d0a4f839af273…839af273…2022-11-04 23:54:03 <asciilifeform> even tho no ~direct~ connection b/w what asciilifeform had eaten, and the latter.
7cdd8ca4e9c34318…e9c34318…2022-11-05 21:59:54 asciilifeform recalls subj from microshit loloffice under win31. and occasionally sees old shop signs in it in rundown parts of town
dcdc8e3a717196b1…3fb3f720…2022-11-05 23:18:56 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: nope. 100% digital, over custom cable, 'supervga' res. (long before even 'vga', iirc that particular console circa '84)
2d90e03f717196b1…717196b1…2022-11-06 03:14:05 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: dead link re: [console cable][http://www.loper-os.org/?p=52]
786adce37388ac8c…7388ac8c…2022-11-05 03:04:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-03 asciilifeform: fucked with 'wx', 'qt', bought the fucking books, worked through all known public examples of anyffin even vaguely resembling hypertext editors, tried with raw x11, # of misc. horrors. all to 0 useful result.
56a7d21c860af0be…860af0be…2022-10-02 21:55:59 asciilifeform evidently doomed to 'upgrade' the thing, i.e. to blow a multiweek vacation on manually emplacing the deps or alt. to bake a toilet box for subj (ugh)
e65556dfe7c4b5a9…e8f49c41…2022-10-14 19:40:01 <phf> i vaguely suspect this culture died everywhere at the same time, everyone simply fell from whichever hight they were at to begin with. so e.g. when semantic web lispers got poached from umd or exciting hack projects get somehow replaced with industry interests, etc. mit was going through its own great replacement
448dbb73704251c9…400144ad…2022-11-03 18:09:06 <asciilifeform> signpost: had notion it came up in ye olde #t; and sure enuff, diana bolted a marsagliator to asciilifeform's udp tester back in the day
4b919e466d5d0a4f…6d5d0a4f…2022-11-04 23:54:20 <asciilifeform> simply thinking about a subj can stir a thought.
3fb3f7207cdd8ca4…7cdd8ca4…2022-11-05 22:02:07 asciilifeform finally moved 'macivory' & its crt etc to new pad. over9000x portability improvement vs the 3620 !
30ffd883dcdc8e3a…dcdc8e3a…2022-11-05 23:19:21 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: a little moar re outta what they baked it. emitter-coupled logic.
12850bbc2d90e03f…2d90e03f…2022-11-06 03:18:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015580 << Ah this demo
55deba1156a7d21c…9e97b6d3…2022-10-02 21:55:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-28 asciilifeform: billymg: sadly asciilifeform never properly wrote recipe for xorg -- will say that it 1) muchly depends on the gpu backend yer using ( asciilifeform -- amd ) ; and 2) consisted of ~month of trial&error, manually emerging package by package with --no-deps and walking the barf tree
50f1310fe65556df…e7c4b5a9…2022-10-14 19:41:00 <asciilifeform> that it died, 100%. open q is where (if anywhere) fragments lived on (for howlong?) through oversight
dd7aee0730ffd883…30ffd883…2022-11-05 23:20:36 <asciilifeform> 160mhz digital mysterymeat over 12-conductor monster coax.
f0b7f24612850bbc…e649d766…2022-11-06 03:19:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 19:24:59 asciilifeform[5]: example of for what the colour display was.
a2cf948d12850bbc…12850bbc…2022-11-06 10:22:22 <crtdaydreams> What makes a man worthy of following? (as in the case of mp per se.)
156744da7face9cf…7face9cf…2022-11-05 03:04:59 <asciilifeform> ... 'wx' and 'qt' -- only game in town.
4ac3655155deba11…56a7d21c…2022-10-02 22:00:16 <asciilifeform> ^ will prolly have to be finessed via makefile kludge. puzzling that the knob described in manual dunwork tho
0097779d50f1310f…e65556df…2022-10-14 19:41:17 <phf> so being at the tail end of it at umd i simply saw a smaller university fall from grace, probably would've been more exciting to see the fall at mit. but you might also be right, they might've been +x years ahead of the curve and by the time i were to be there the transition would've been already complete
72694cb4dd7aee07…dd7aee07…2022-11-05 23:22:29 <asciilifeform> was feasible arguably because b&w (1-bit colour). later on iirc they came out with a color display, but was iirc tv-style rather than 'svga'
7d820c70f0b7f246…0f5413e0…2022-11-06 03:47:43 asciilifeform recognized the bolix console and console game title in phf's pic; and 'framethrower' ( dks: 'hey wanna buy 3640 instead of 3620, could then put 'framethrower'' a: 'not fits in this toyota' )
a3c17a33a2cf948d…027cad91…2022-11-06 15:08:09 <signpost> traditional answer is that he conquers your old master. can be taken as abstract or concretely as you like.
446b7fca156744da…786adce3…2022-11-05 03:05:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-03 asciilifeform: fucked with 'wx', 'qt', bought the fucking books, worked through all known public examples of anyffin even vaguely resembling hypertext editors, tried with raw x11, # of misc. horrors. all to 0 useful result.
7efbb89b0097779d…50f1310f…2022-10-14 19:41:56 <asciilifeform> the go-to example is dks's tale re some .mil shithole (ft drum?) where bona fide bolix boxen (as of '10) were still in use, 'these being the only 1s that not 1ce crashed'
05f5f294a267cf9b…704251c9…2022-11-03 18:10:56 <signpost> yeah, xorshift's like 5 lines of logxor and ash eh?
afbfc21f72694cb4…72694cb4…2022-11-05 23:23:56 <asciilifeform> example of for what the colour display was.
2f3ff0267d820c70…7d820c70…2022-11-06 03:48:58 <asciilifeform> the left side screen is almost certainly an sgi (wonder why? only as xterm for the bolix, to give 2nd console ?)
0119398ea3c17a33…a3c17a33…2022-11-06 15:09:34 <signpost> should also mention that a republic is not a cult of personality of one man. it's the confluence of many allied wills, even if unequal.
ec0e8e786a5c707b…f819c48f…2022-11-09 21:45:22 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
da4f9990446b7fca…156744da…2022-11-05 03:06:07 asciilifeform before anyone asks, has 0 interest in 'in emacs' hack, or '8gb chrome turd with js' variants thereof
ad7e93b37efbb89b…7efbb89b…2022-10-14 19:42:58 asciilifeform at 1 pt dug up the public contract docs, confirmed story. naturally not found 'for what used'
369f0c15afbfc21f…b9c8c4ee…2022-11-05 23:49:17 <phf> i'm personally quite fond of this picture, http://glyf.org/screenshots/symbolics-square.jpg
275069ff2f3ff026…2f3ff026…2022-11-06 03:49:35 <asciilifeform> interestingly, bolix kbd nowhere in sight ( did the wacomesque kanji board replace it?? )
abe1803b0119398e…4e7b407f…2022-11-06 15:15:21 <billymg> i think the bar is lower than that, doesn't need to conquer anyone, only create meaning
d18a1908da4f9990…da4f9990…2022-11-05 03:06:43 <asciilifeform> i.e. if it crawls on asciilifeform's x60 stinkpad, it's worthless to asciilifeform
fdf4a479e49f7fec…a267cf9b…2022-11-03 18:11:23 <asciilifeform> aaha, iirc fastest prng with decently long period
49d79728275069ff…275069ff…2022-11-06 03:51:56 <asciilifeform> ( 3640 -- for the innocent -- approx. size of 2 drawer filing cabinet, and iirc ~100kg )
cdb9dee6abe1803b…0119398e…2022-11-06 15:11:08 <signpost> billymg: when ben introduced me to trilema old masters were defeated. that's what I meant by abstract.
7abb9f57d18a1908…d18a1908…2022-11-05 03:08:00 <asciilifeform> ( & ditto if can't cut&paste to/from it w/out spurious linebreaks )
938cb3fafdf4a479…e49f7fec…2022-11-03 18:11:52 signpost just needs a decently normal distribution so should be great
7aebb431c41c197b…c41c197b…2022-11-06 02:19:35 <asciilifeform> ( or -- when. green kensington trackball? defo mid-'90s neh )
f8e8990049d79728…b04d4af8…2022-11-06 03:57:36 <phf> asciilifeform, can also put framethrower in e.g. xl1201 which is what they are likely using here
5e04c2c1cdb9dee6…cdb9dee6…2022-11-06 15:12:16 <signpost> could also say that if meaning is created where none was before, old mastered died and left a vacuum.
2376cfd8cc9bfbda…cc9bfbda…2022-11-10 08:52:10 <crtdaydreams> betcha SBF d00d has a few satoshis stashed away
38f68a127abb9f57…446b7fca…2022-11-05 03:08:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-05-27 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it's no solution at all : if i can't cut/paste to/from $item and www browser on every major os, it's worthless to me
842ea677938cb3fa…938cb3fa…2022-11-03 18:14:49 <signpost> https://www.jstatsoft.org/article/view/v008i14 << paper for the interested; tried to huck the pdf link into archive.is but it wouldn't eat it, perhaps because it's a download.
0f5413e07aebb431…7aebb431…2022-11-06 02:21:03 asciilifeform not had the bolix 2nd ed. console pictured; envious
405b65947aebb431…369f0c15…2022-11-06 02:33:53 <phf> asciilifeform, it's because you're not into popular culture. without further investigation, pictured is an unnamed Square salaryman sometime between 1994 and 1997 working diligently in s-graphics to implement 3d models for a popular video game Final Fantasy VII
409a03642376cfd8…2376cfd8…2022-11-10 08:52:48 <crtdaydreams> "oh noes, am worth -$14.2 bil overnight" "anyways"
453e1918842ea677…fdf4a479…2022-11-03 18:15:51 <asciilifeform> aaha, for this use case only needs decently long period ( and uniformity, which can then hammer into normal bell )
5e79d6b3405b6594…405b6594…2022-11-06 02:43:02 <phf> i'm pretty sure i've come across details before as far as who was the bolix champion at square and how that came about, but i can't find it anymore
c34f0040491e94ae…abe1803b…2022-11-06 15:18:06 <billymg> ah, as in, "there's something else that exists/can exist" (that's how i felt when first discovering trilema at least)
b225707e409a0364…409a0364…2022-11-10 08:54:07 crtdaydreams proceeds to embark on USG funded ~~vacation~~ 'business trip' to the bahamas 16 mo from now
e65534765e79d6b3…5e79d6b3…2022-11-06 02:46:45 <phf> genera had support for i18n out of the box, though none were implemented (left as an exercise™) except for japanese. there was even a custom input device for doing kanji input
c2db99dbb225707e…b225707e…2022-11-10 08:55:20 <crtdaydreams> either that or like all other shitcoinistas before him; scrubbed off the map entirely
4a49f9e5a4b86da3…43704039…2022-11-03 23:15:20 <phf> i'm surprised every time i visit cmu ai archive AND IT'S STILL UP
b04d4af8e6553476…e6553476…2022-11-06 02:49:21 <phf> further the two monitors on the bottom right are symbolics console, and the screen with "final fantasy vii" is an s-graphics output over framethrower, which is a custom graphics board
b6033fb15e65e74a…5e65e74a…2022-11-06 15:15:51 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2016-09-16#1543393 << randomly selected example of the guy thumping me over the head with tradition to great benefit.
364a0c55c2db99db…dba9f1d3…2022-11-10 13:11:16 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-10#1015850 << Hey at least "Almadea research" researched how to keep the plates spinning for *this* long. Too bad that also didn't include how to dump your shit on another "major" exchange.
ad8c5749c2db99db…c2db99db…2022-11-12 23:04:46 <crtdaydreams> In more ftx lulz, claims of being 'hacked'
e7f59cb4b6033fb1…c34f0040…2022-11-06 15:41:49 <billymg> hrm, bitbot's echos showing in the logs but not in the terminal
9970eb65364a0c55…72b56249…2022-11-10 13:12:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-10 03:52:42 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: shinohai: rip
60642bde2d698e6c…21b5cea8…2022-11-12 23:09:37 <shinohai> Yeah been watching that unfold in realtime crtdaydream, lulzy
15a4a43b1baf76fb…705a4faf…2022-11-04 14:05:09 <billymg> is the empire dead yet? *checks z-library* nope, not dead yet
bb5671c4ebf2b936…ebf2b936…2022-11-06 15:43:29 <billymg> oh well, he had a good run, will restart real quick now...
da0587a4e42c22c0…f32b24bd…2022-11-12 23:06:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:21:22 asciilifeform: on the rare occasions when > n, for some n, folx show up to demand actual btc rather than yellow printolade -- 'ohnoez, we got hacked' etc
79948da415a4a43b…491d00eb…2022-11-04 14:01:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 11:15:10 signpost: heh, "is the empire dead yet?" (checks btc price)
8e4836ad39eb2d49…866ac926…2022-11-10 16:24:58 <billymg> according to my chart lines it needs to go above $18.6k and stay there to be out of the woods
0b88b2a4a54b8fa2…a54b8fa2…2022-11-12 23:10:02 <crtdaydreams> ah yis "we filed for ch. 11, but we actually had the btc but we got hacked, yes in that order, no we don't have any btc we can give you"
1caed00579948da4…e62b32f5…2022-11-04 14:32:57 <asciilifeform> billymg: the final solution to these is rather obv. at this point imho
1b2f7cbe8e4836ad…364a0c55…2022-11-10 16:34:51 shinohai has no chart lines, performs coin divination by tossing pickup stix on the floor .....
79c6a36c0b88b2a4…e42c22c0…2022-11-12 23:10:33 <asciilifeform> recall original gox. precisely same scheme
08bd73b60b88b2a4…0b88b2a4…2022-11-12 23:14:02 <crtdaydreams> oughta hook up a hydroelectric to buterins right now
471746161caed005…f84de706…2022-11-04 14:32:57 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-01 asciilifeform: what's needed is http over pest, where can fetch e.g. http://localhost:1337/asciilifeform/loper-os.org and it'll work for so long as asciilifeform is in yer l_n (for some n)
0a1967ba1b2f7cbe…8e4836ad…2022-11-10 16:43:04 <billymg> place ipad with btc chart on table, toss pickup stix on ipad. now you've got chart lines!
5c92c63279c6a36c…79c6a36c…2022-11-12 23:11:35 <asciilifeform> 'hacked' == 'sumbody called the fractionalreserve bluff, so wainot steal errything, wai should the morons get even % of deposits'
5ab9e45747174616…1caed005…2022-11-04 14:33:22 <asciilifeform> (which is where signpost's lubytron comes in)
4491fc0041e10163…f0b7f246…2022-11-06 15:44:53 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
333781a90a1967ba…f82d7cb7…2022-11-10 16:50:18 <asciilifeform> meanwhile: signpost , awt , jonsykkel , phf, billymg , et al : preview of 0xfa. a number of sections not done, and prolly over9000 typos but fwiw.
e9aaad4808af2164…5c92c632…2022-11-13 03:16:45 asciilifeform finally realized that fltk author's 'statically linked' claim is bogus, thing still expects dynamic x11, xft, etc. may be possible to cheat w/ e.g. dlopen tho.
806ea19708af2164…08af2164…2022-11-13 20:02:47 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-13#1016127 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-10#1015853 lmao called it
28b0f7e75ab9e457…15a4a43b…2022-11-04 14:48:12 <billymg> asciilifeform: pest was definitely the first thing i thought of when i saw it
8cf97732333781a9…333781a9…2022-11-10 16:50:39 asciilifeform will include the html ver. once finished and vpatch
d7bbb223e9aaad48…e9aaad48…2022-11-13 03:17:15 <asciilifeform> afaik static linkage of x11 in such a way as to bake trb-style portable musltronic bin -- still unsolved.
fbe2ed00806ea197…002f746d…2022-11-13 20:03:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-13 11:09:54 asciilifeform[5]: apropos anthropological lulz re that n-th gox
e128228028b0f7e7…5ab9e457…2022-11-04 15:35:24 <asciilifeform> y'know, how 13337w4r3z usedto work, back when the amt of effectual Official interference with it was ~zero
17ed2d0cfbe2ed00…fbe2ed00…2022-11-13 20:03:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-10 03:55:09 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: proceeds to embark on USG funded ~~vacation~~ 'business trip' to the bahamas 16 mo from now
17feb18ba61327c6…a61327c6…2022-11-14 09:23:03 <crtdaydreams> in moar ftx gags, apparently feigning twatter hack?
275792762bde4f02…4491fc00…2022-11-06 15:47:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-13 14:58:35 billymg: bot might need to be restarted, since restarted the blatta station it's connected to. i remember this being an issue in the past
0c8f01cc1f533e45…1f533e45…2022-11-13 03:19:50 asciilifeform wonders how authors of popular linux warezes (e.g. 'eagle') did it
de3d8a7e17feb18b…17feb18b…2022-11-14 09:26:52 <crtdaydreams> haven't been following closely, what's the lore on this alamada research watchamacallit
526a47b927579276…49d79728…2022-11-06 16:50:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015596 << didja have one in yours? ( asciilifeform not seen docs for the thing, wondered whether it worked only with dedicated 3disms, or could be used simply as 2nd console... )
402422177778c286…a4c54f07…2022-11-10 17:47:06 <signpost> reading now. the diagrams look very nice. will indeed look great on dead tree when appropriate.
f6bc94cb7778c286…7778c286…2022-11-10 17:47:06 <asciilifeform> over9000 things missing (some marked, some not). e.g. not has illustration of chain mechanics (where notion is, in a gui client not need to 'detect forks', simply draw arrows to follow selfchain)
1b3fa4f20c8f01cc…da0587a4…2022-11-13 03:19:50 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-08 asciilifeform: of item i personally used in depth -- 'eagle' cad.
72bae66a526a47b9…27579276…2022-11-06 16:51:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-05 23:58:37 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, can also put framethrower in e.g. xl1201 which is what they are likely using here
8f17337740242217…f6bc94cb…2022-11-10 17:48:10 <asciilifeform> in re new moving parts -- introduced 'multipart' message mark (in such way as back-compat. with existing pestrons)
ed74c1e91b3fa4f2…e0719dee…2022-11-13 15:24:49 <billymg> signpost: i passed along the feedback verbatim, thanks for taking a look
3339056b72bae66a…526a47b9…2022-11-06 16:51:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015597 << could as easily ask 'wat makes a cake worth eating' etc. subjective q, for the individual folx doing it, neh.
8884725a8f173377…8f173377…2022-11-10 17:48:42 <asciilifeform> addrcast revised to burn less cpu (only attempt decode if originator handle matches a cold peer, given as is meaningless anyway if not in prev. spec)
0347ab56ed74c1e9…ed74c1e9…2022-11-13 15:25:58 <billymg> i agree the whole thing seemed surprisingly sane, and personally liked the "hand's off" stance wrt taxation (seeing as how i'm already liable for this to usg, it's good to know i won't be double-taxed)
5f00051a1bc0a0c4…ddc17603…2022-11-14 17:53:22 <signpost> crtdaydreams: my guess is the guy's got so much adderall and xanax up his nose at this point he doesn't know what he's posting.
1d8ee5893339056b…72bae66a…2022-11-06 16:52:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 05:23:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: What makes a man worthy of following? (as in the case of mp per se.)
0b329d5d8884725a…8884725a…2022-11-10 17:49:10 <asciilifeform> 'inv' msg introduced (for use when folx start using netchain for threaded replies, and can no longer rely on netchain to represent 'tip' of conversation)
d29613f05f00051a…4477e484…2022-11-14 18:16:27 <asciilifeform> signpost: (via locklin's www) was the chix who had the dope post, but come to think of it prolly both overindulge
ce49329c3b1a9d8c…2b72e0b0…2022-11-04 15:45:04 asciilifeform recalls 'direct connect' 20y ago, which was actually p2p ('get ip from sumbody'), was ubiquitous at uni
daec69731d8ee589…f8e89900…2022-11-06 17:13:27 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015623 << no, after buying xl i very rapidly cooled towards the whole retro-hardware thing. tbh.
ff12840b0b329d5d…0b329d5d…2022-11-10 17:49:44 <asciilifeform> 'binary' msg type for eventual use w/ signpost's lubytron.
ad389afb5b1e7874…5b1e7874…2022-11-13 15:32:33 <billymg> except there is some ambiguity around the word 'habitual' here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=AW6o (e.g. someone living off their coin might meet this definition of 'habitual' -- if the intent was to target Traders™ then it should specify that more clearly)
6a950f36c21e43f6…040d9a7a…2022-11-15 13:43:35 <billymg> still a longgg way to go but at least moving in the right direction: btc balance on exchanges
d3ae1e61c21e43f6…c21e43f6…2022-11-19 23:17:44 <crtdaydreams> re m1: iirc geohot was messing around with the thing a while ago, at one point he was reverse engineering the neural engine. He has a project tinygrad which is a python ML library wherin the goal was eventually to support the M1 along with other arches. But from what I can tell he's changed tack an
ea1e8dc0ce49329c…ce49329c…2022-11-04 15:50:08 <asciilifeform> was rather simple thing, had no nat penetration at all (but nobody was in a nat, so nobody gaveafuck)
7480d4a0daec6973…1d8ee589…2022-11-06 17:14:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 11:51:11 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-05#1015596 << didja have one in yours? ( asciilifeform not seen docs for the thing, wondered whether it worked only with dedicated 3disms, or could be used simply as 2nd console... )
8a57cbcbff12840b…ff12840b…2022-11-10 17:50:02 <asciilifeform> just about errything else -- similar to previous, but organized in moar logical way so to be readable
071d55fead389afb…ad389afb…2022-11-13 15:57:21 <billymg> normies starting to get it: https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1591813959438553091
324907dd4227e119…5f00051a…2022-11-14 18:16:53 <signpost> asciilifeform: rumor is they had an on-staff shrink to write the amphetamine prescriptions
40b988546a950f36…beb1b31b…2022-11-15 13:50:30 <awt> It appears that nearly all btc traded on ftx was paper.
3fed2dd0d3ae1e61…d3ae1e61…2022-11-19 23:17:44 <crtdaydreams> d wants to tailor it towards general (non monopolized) AI accelerated
d86d50537480d4a0…daec6973…2022-11-06 17:15:08 <phf> i had various opportunities to pick up macivory, framethrower, 3860 at reasonable price from dks, but i'm mostly content playing with that stuff when visiting the house of the whisperer you met
d401606a8a57cbcb…8a57cbcb…2022-11-10 17:50:20 <asciilifeform> all discussion of 'forks' nixed, imho is job for frontend of client
63bb3450071d55fe…071d55fe…2022-11-13 16:01:02 <billymg> it's also been interesting (but not surprising) to see the sheer volume of bots/shills desperately trying to get everyone to draw the wrong conclusions from the FTX collapse
4b9eb5da324907dd…4227e119…2022-11-14 18:17:19 <asciilifeform> signpost: laddel managed without a full-time dr.mengele. but whoknows
6a78a8e640b98854…6a950f36…2022-11-15 13:57:20 <billymg> yeah, seems that way, meaning any btc anyone sent them was promptly dumped somewhere
a70fe4b43fed2dd0…3fed2dd0…2022-11-19 23:17:46 <crtdaydreams> architectures. From the snippets I've read, the codebase is tight.
def46eb57c1971b0…ea1e8dc0…2022-11-04 15:52:39 <asciilifeform> was effectively equivalent to ordinary ftp, but with search knob
5d22a36bd86d5053…d86d5053…2022-11-06 17:20:11 <phf> but specifically re framethrower you don't magically get a color console when connecting one, it's a dedicated auxilary output device
3d90d46cd401606a…d401606a…2022-11-10 17:50:43 <asciilifeform> ditto reordering/interning of messages
49e7ec2e63bb3450…63bb3450…2022-11-13 16:01:21 <billymg> i've seen everything from "the FTX collapse illustrates why you should store your coins on 'safe' exchanges that don't offer yield" to "the FTX collapse illustrates why all centralized exchanges will ultimately fail, which is why we should migrate to ethereum and use decentralized exchanges!"
444e53294b9eb5da…4b9eb5da…2022-11-14 18:17:58 asciilifeform did tell laddel, 'dopaminergics aint a toy', but since when does anyone listen
9e0f26ab6a78a8e6…6a78a8e6…2022-11-15 13:58:22 <billymg> awt: the chart posted above, afaik, would not include those ftx "coins" in the total though, as the way it is calculated is by summing the balances of known exchange addresses on chain
a626a473a70fe4b4…a70fe4b4…2022-11-19 23:22:09 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W55PHTX_zb0
10b3d7c65d22a36b…5d22a36b…2022-11-06 17:20:34 <phf> in fact i've never seen it render anything but this s-graphics screen https://twitter.com/LispEngineer/status/1390337249854767104/photo/2 :D
beeb98433d90d46c…3d90d46c…2022-11-10 17:54:16 <asciilifeform> the 1 major change -- nomoar buffers, all valid msgs of the 'chained' (i.e. loggable) type go straight to db
691253e349e7ec2e…49e7ec2e…2022-11-13 16:05:47 billymg would love to see the plebs on twitter start applying pressure to Saylor to get him to withdraw his coins from whatever custodian (i believe coinbase) holds them now
8e116387444e5329…324907dd…2022-11-14 18:18:58 <signpost> I fully support any kind of augmentation/experimentation one wants to attempt
f9871889a626a473…a626a473…2022-11-21 00:33:32 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-11-20#1114222 << possibly to do with NAT config &&|| peers changed ip simultaniously.
bf3ae23d3d3dc1c0…3d3dc1c0…2022-11-04 17:20:00 <signpost> perusing a particular human's hoard^Wlibrary rather than the impersonal, larger, often spam-ridden p2p nets.
a0902adf10b3d7c6…10b3d7c6…2022-11-06 17:21:14 <phf> (if you notice it's the same screen as the one in the photo above)
7858744dbeeb9843…beeb9843…2022-11-10 17:54:39 <asciilifeform> (if arrive outta order -- not problem in graphical frontend )
e856b3ba691253e3…691253e3…2022-11-13 16:06:15 <billymg> doubt that's possible though, would violate some usg contract he's bound to most likely
80aa02738e116387…8e116387…2022-11-14 18:19:17 <signpost> tried oxiracetam a while back, was great. my conclusion was it was too good, had to have a cost.
d7baccc8f9871889…fe4c4d09…2022-11-21 00:34:37 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-11-20 unpx: IP changed, but I don't get why my peers didn't update it in their AT.
6e68a3c1bf3ae23d…def46eb5…2022-11-04 17:53:26 asciilifeform wonders how much 'decline of 13337w4r3z' was simply from 'errybody already has errything worth leeching'
37f3b486a0902adf…a0902adf…2022-11-06 17:22:05 <phf> * https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0t4V8BWQAQHanD?format=jpg&name=large
8ea487637858744d…7858744d…2022-11-10 17:55:06 <asciilifeform> ditto if copies with lower bounce (incl. immediates) recvd.
e32ea094e856b3ba…0c8f01cc…2022-11-13 16:08:52 <asciilifeform> apropos anthropological lulz re that n-th gox
5aee2cf080aa0273…444e5329…2022-11-14 18:19:25 asciilifeform lived in usa long enuff to have eaten'em, not speaks 'from arse'
d0ce8b8137f3b486…37f3b486…2022-11-06 17:23:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015597 << “What’s he that wishes so? My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin: If we are mark’d to die, we are enow To do our country loss; and if to live, The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
d5a5f09d5aee2cf0…5aee2cf0…2022-11-14 18:19:42 <asciilifeform> if must do it, do a la paul erdos -- smallest possible dose, now&again, not erryday
aea47d0cea293619…f9c4fa18…2022-11-21 06:02:01 <asciilifeform> in other finds: finally turned up example of direct socket x11ism (other than the monstrously bloated clx)
b38093615dceff88…5dceff88…2022-11-22 03:53:39 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: you gonna huck it out in ada or lisp?
6c39a8ecd0ce8b81…7480d4a0…2022-11-06 17:24:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 05:23:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: What makes a man worthy of following? (as in the case of mp per se.)
c6be61d556f36163…56f36163…2022-11-10 17:55:44 <asciilifeform> i.e. most annoyingly gnarly, imho, piece of old spec -- vanished
4bba76c7945e7fe5…1b3fa4f2…2022-11-13 16:13:05 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 asciilifeform: 'errybody' luvvs a pyramid (until day x)
0aa66934b3809361…2d2ea1a6…2022-11-22 05:19:22 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: nfi whether the approach is practical yet. (managed to, so far, wedge x; and then, separately, to create unkillable zombie window after process killed, grr)
0de3d606b3809361…b3809361…2022-11-22 09:09:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016726 << heh. at least it's not alsa.....
01f998086c39a8ec…d0ce8b81…2022-11-06 17:24:54 <phf> … He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian:’ Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispin’s day.’
c697ea68c6be61d5…40242217…2022-11-10 17:56:11 <signpost> glad to see UI implementation detail backflow dropped from the spec, yup.
9b6686ac4bba76c7…945e7fe5…2022-11-13 16:13:56 <asciilifeform> somehow the players 'surprised' errytime. even tho erry pyramid ends precisely same way.
508fd0aa0de3d606…be320293…2022-11-22 09:10:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 00:20:27 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: nfi whether the approach is practical yet. (managed to, so far, wedge x; and then, separately, to create unkillable zombie window after process killed, grr)
a498b59c0de3d606…0de3d606…2022-11-22 09:16:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-14#1016213 << how far did you get with your attempts at iron gc from thin air?
50f27b3701f99808…01f99808…2022-11-06 17:25:17 <phf> … We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with u
a252855cc697ea68…c6be61d5…2022-11-10 17:56:37 <asciilifeform> the 1 case where makes sense to 'sit on' a message is where bounce > lowest_historical(speaker). still need to stuff that into sect. 5.
040d9a7a9b6686ac…e856b3ba…2022-11-13 16:51:01 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-13#1016127 << nice
f34a60ade8f48d05…bc3304c9…2022-11-21 18:47:19 <asciilifeform> ^ the x11 example btw segfaults in 'x11_generate_id'; may have erroneous headers (or outdated?)
05c2b417a498b59c…508fd0aa…2022-11-22 09:17:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-14 15:27:26 asciilifeform[5]: and of course ^ reopens the 'write font renderer, scroller, etc. widgetry from 0' sisyphian labour
95065da0a498b59c…a498b59c…2022-11-28 12:24:23 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-27#1016880 << http mirror of item for readers
6111c7efa252855c…a252855c…2022-11-10 17:57:36 <asciilifeform> (generally one wants to propagate with min-bounce when possible, otherwise msg can run along longer-than-req'd path and end up cut off prematurely by max-bounce somewhere)
002f746d040d9a7a…fd1fa88e…2022-11-13 16:46:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-13 11:09:54 asciilifeform[5]: apropos anthropological lulz re that n-th gox
17326fb6f619f52e…f619f52e…2022-11-14 18:20:24 <signpost> but yeah, the rapid unscheduled disassembly tends to follow a pattern
d3b9f432f34a60ad…f34a60ad…2022-11-21 20:19:17 <asciilifeform> ^ example, cribbed from www and then fixed eggogs. worx on dulap-gentoo.
be3202938f2a4256…2ee9aaf1…2022-11-22 05:21:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-14 15:27:26 asciilifeform[5]: and of course ^ reopens the 'write font renderer, scroller, etc. widgetry from 0' sisyphian labour
560b610d05c2b417…076638b8…2022-11-22 15:04:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016738 << suspected this! (but not had time to try). ty jonsykkel !
e16b187f95065da0…9c473943…2022-11-28 12:25:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-27 18:00:19 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-25#1016874 << this line lands particularly well, because i'm reading unixhaters guide at the moment
62bdc4d295065da0…95065da0…2022-11-28 12:43:53 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-27#1016937 << A workshop experiment was done where grease-gun cartridges were replaced with transparent ones, allowing workers to see exactly how much grease was in them at a glance. After a few days of observation it appeared that workers would simply go look for another grease gun rath
da54e0f8040fe0e6…3339056b…2022-11-06 19:19:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015627 << asciilifeform admits similar 'cooled' (was moving 'macivory', and all the while thinking 'will boot?' & 'how many contacts will have to reseat')
14d586416111c7ef…c697ea68…2022-11-10 17:58:19 <signpost> having my wife read too because I'm curious what an educated (semi-)nontechnical takes from it.
25cf8922d3b9f432…d3b9f432…2022-11-21 20:19:29 <asciilifeform> ^ phf et al (supposing anyone interested in subj)
076638b8be320293…8f2a4256…2022-11-22 05:23:00 <asciilifeform> ( how to wedge? make the graphic larger than the window... )
fb91f0a0560b610d…05c2b417…2022-11-22 15:05:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 01:47:26 jonsykkel: it worx if i manualy put the offset of last field of first xauthroity entry, rather than last entry like the prog dose
6844ebaa62bdc4d2…62bdc4d2…2022-11-28 12:43:53 <crtdaydreams> er than fill the ones that they could see were empty.
864eb45262bdc4d2…e16b187f…2022-11-28 12:45:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-27 21:06:57 asciilifeform[5]: not infrequently uses (raw, rather than via mc) sftp
04faebdada54e0f8…6c39a8ec…2022-11-06 19:20:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 12:14:34 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015623 << no, after buying xl i very rapidly cooled towards the whole retro-hardware thing. tbh.
842a5d2f14d58641…6111c7ef…2022-11-10 17:58:20 <asciilifeform> in 5.4.10.5 , 'port hammering' introduced. (may need massage)
7a679a943c02d8e1…3c02d8e1…2022-11-13 16:51:15 <phf> although i kind of prefer when he writes about virile men engineers, scientific iconoclasts and the importance of slide rules, rather than the modern literally whos
d99cf86e25cf8922…25cf8922…2022-11-21 20:20:21 <asciilifeform> uses no linked libs. i.e. approach is potentially usable from static muslism, ad-hoc lisps, etc.
b4c6cbac6844ebaa…6844ebaa…2022-11-28 12:50:49 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: haven't had time to read latest draft spec, is this line-break issue implementation or spec based?
4d3087f604faebda…da54e0f8…2022-11-06 19:19:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015633 << reminiscent of ye olde 'deluxe paint'
7c38ebee541d5af4…4bba76c7…2022-11-14 18:20:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-17 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: doin' dope 'correctly' is as much a skill as e.g. running a table saw or flying a 'cessna'
e6254019d99cf86e…d99cf86e…2022-11-21 20:21:02 <asciilifeform> not given in the demo is the required mutexism, or any way to handle events (would need to listen on the socket, presumably. not tried yet.)
df4c812b4e109d4d…4e109d4d…2022-11-22 15:05:28 asciilifeform suspects that 'use last entry' aint gonna work, necessarily, if there's >1 session (e.g. there's an x proggy going over tcp)
4a25c9824d3087f6…04faebda…2022-11-06 19:20:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 12:23:19 phf[awt]: * https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0t4V8BWQAQHanD?format=jpg&name=large
a014cbaa4d919270…842a5d2f…2022-11-10 17:58:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: nifty. asciilifeform fed sect1 to pet, similarly
5e72660f62940376…62940376…2022-11-13 18:28:26 <asciilifeform> unrelatedly, asciilifeform hit a rather stiff wall with fltk (and then tried classic tk, where apparently on asciilifeform's box same issue) -- not worx with x11 dpi settings, microscopic font (and if cranked up, overflows widgets)
eba0f9727c38ebee…541d5af4…2022-11-14 18:21:31 <asciilifeform> signpost: there's a classic 'fuhrerbunker' pattern where sufferer 'doubles down', very characteristic of dopaminergic abusers
29ec6863e6254019…e6254019…2022-11-21 20:21:35 <asciilifeform> original author hardcoded .Xauthority path; fixed this to getenv it
37e5d897df4c812b…df4c812b…2022-11-22 17:05:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016745 << elaborate?
5ad607d61008256d…71998af0…2022-11-28 14:51:39 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: rec to read the latest draft.
bd4702771008256d…1008256d…2022-11-30 08:16:24 <crtdaydreams> signpost: AT automagically updated :D, have been on and off
2103d6af4a25c982…4d3087f6…2022-11-06 19:20:55 asciilifeform not hunting for any additional bolix irons -- other than moar identical ivory cpus for the eventual meatgrinder -- for some yrs nao
3eac0c59a014cbaa…a014cbaa…2022-11-10 18:04:57 <asciilifeform> 1 remaining q is wat to do with malformed msgs that are pointed to by a chain. (current text: 'discard') but potentially results in infinite fetches via getdata. prolly oughta store'em but mark 'broken heart' to not display in console
99859a4b5e72660f…5e72660f…2022-11-13 18:29:27 asciilifeform paying for the sin of using only 4k lcds
d46f4c44eba0f972…d507906a…2022-11-14 18:23:53 <signpost> asciilifeform: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhaCM-ZWQAEoK1i?format=jpg&name=large
8e8953ef29ec6863…29ec6863…2022-11-21 20:24:33 <asciilifeform> ... strangely: on a box where 'artix', get 'Connection reply indicated failure.' (ln. 178)
2351079937e5d897…fb91f0a0…2022-11-22 17:06:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 04:17:34 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-14#1016213 << how far did you get with your attempts at iron gc from thin air?
59d0a3af5ad607d6…864eb452…2022-11-28 14:52:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-10 11:51:20 asciilifeform[6]: meanwhile: signpost , awt , jonsykkel , phf, billymg , et al : preview of 0xfa. a number of sections not done, and prolly over9000 typos but fwiw.
0d669934bd470277…bd470277…2022-11-30 08:20:28 <crtdaydreams> also; congratulations, a step closer to the superlative man!
00f00d432103d6af…2103d6af…2022-11-06 19:21:30 <asciilifeform> imho the Right Thing in re: preserving 'atlantean' irons is to properly reverse'em.
8bd246c93eac0c59…3eac0c59…2022-11-10 18:05:42 <asciilifeform> (malformed -- not 'martian' but break some rule, e.g. invalid utf, or circular chain, or direct but bounce not zero, or 1 of several dozen other boojums)
c4ee110299859a4b…7a679a94…2022-11-13 18:29:41 <phf> ah, that's an extra complexity i haven't tried tackling yet at all. on mac os x11 just does 2x zoom that you can't turn off. annoying, but work™
aed4a9188e8953ef…8e8953ef…2022-11-21 20:25:01 <asciilifeform> ( there also env var XAUTHORITY not set by default, had to set by hand )
df6dead623510799…23510799…2022-11-22 23:57:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016726 << this wouldn't happen on Xsgi™
74b48fa90d669934…0d669934…2022-11-30 09:37:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-11-29#1114240 << bizzare. message virtually non-existant on bitdash logs
f9a4735b00f00d43…00f00d43…2022-11-06 19:22:52 <asciilifeform> (easier said, unfortunately, than done; and asciilifeform presently has ~0 cycles to meaningfully work on subj)
3f2d5b0e8bd246c9…8bd246c9…2022-11-10 18:06:49 <asciilifeform> ideally nobody will send these but can't be ruled out, so gotta handle'em.
4549397f4b79acb7…4b79acb7…2022-11-14 18:42:06 <asciilifeform> signpost: unapropos -- know anyffin re guiism ?
41352f59aed4a918…aed4a918…2022-11-21 20:25:39 <asciilifeform> if anyone has 1) box with xorg 2) spare 5min -- plox to test & write in.
e515202adf6dead6…23510799…2022-11-22 23:58:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 00:20:27 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: nfi whether the approach is practical yet. (managed to, so far, wedge x; and then, separately, to create unkillable zombie window after process killed, grr)
844ea25474b48fa9…c342ab20…2022-11-30 09:38:47 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-11-29 unpx: Looks like bitdash didn't catch up the logs... http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-11-25#1114231
19f942e63f2d5b0e…3f2d5b0e…2022-11-10 18:07:19 <asciilifeform> iirc phf pointed out this gotcha in old days when 'gossip' etc discussed
081fa68c4549397f…17ed2d0c…2022-11-14 18:43:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-13 13:29:28 asciilifeform[4]: unrelatedly, asciilifeform hit a rather stiff wall with fltk (and then tried classic tk, where apparently on asciilifeform's box same issue) -- not worx with x11 dpi settings, microscopic font (and if cranked up, overflows widgets)
1b0637df41352f59…41352f59…2022-11-21 20:48:28 asciilifeform suspects 'improvement' in format of 'Xauthority' turd on newer linuxen
45a1afc6e515202a…df6dead6…2022-11-23 00:02:31 <phf> in general x.org doesn't work well when you work within the spec, but outside established conventions. optimized for gtk™, but if you pick up even xlib level programming guide and start doing odd things, very easy to lock the server or do a hard crash
ce2ced57abc9dfc2…4e2543ba…2022-11-28 15:27:09 <awt> asciilifeform: I'm still completely bogged down with fiat work and relocation. Likely won't be able to give it attention until the new year.
8e052036844ea254…f6ff010a…2022-11-30 09:37:47 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-11-25 unpx: To my peers, hoping they will read this message. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=BX0- http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ZDRx http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QMkw
6932fc2c19f942e6…4d919270…2022-11-10 18:08:16 <signpost> seems useful to surface these so bugs are immediately obvious to users.
a7c8a16c7b65d8f3…53bc47f2…2022-11-13 18:30:22 asciilifeform also wants thing to work on crapple, cuz that's the closest thing asciilifeform presently has to a working portable
bdae217c081fa68c…4549397f…2022-11-14 18:55:23 asciilifeform thus far failed to discover a way of baking gui for ada proggy (even under strictly linux) that he could read w/out a magnifying glass, lol
57a293cc1b0637df…1b0637df…2022-11-22 02:31:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-21#1016701 << i like this "write everything from scratch" approach, but no need to hate on clx, it's written in the age when corporate entities still produced tight and usable code
61c8a2f845a1afc6…45a1afc6…2022-11-23 00:06:38 <phf> back when x was used as a network protocol, to tie together a heterogenous unix ecosystem, the server would be written defensively, with the idea that the client might be malicious, or compromised, or just badly written with a home baked x protocol implementation (e.g. clx)
d781ef7384f831e2…84f831e2…2022-11-30 21:36:03 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: "error: invalid speaker '' recieved from peer 'jonsykkel'"
7452d289f3171b38…040fe0e6…2022-11-06 22:10:44 <phf> well, right, also i got exposed to retro hardware culture, and the hoarding and the associated folly. a lot of your rants about "not interested in reversing because devalues rembrandts" assumes rational, goal driven behavior. in reality mostly crazy people with compulsions, "only replace caps with time appropriate equivale
dfda6566a7c8a16c…a7c8a16c…2022-11-13 18:31:12 asciilifeform wouldn't want to run a main-caliber pestron on crapple, but if we get pestron w/ 'slave mode', oughta work
3aec61afbdae217c…d46f4c44…2022-11-14 18:58:20 <signpost> nah no idea. maybe it has an opinion re: use of .Xdefaults vs .Xresources ?
ccde574257a293cc…d7baccc8…2022-11-22 02:32:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-21 01:03:06 asciilifeform[6]: in other finds: finally turned up example of direct socket x11ism (other than the monstrously bloated clx)
1ba3c94e61c8a2f8…61c8a2f8…2022-11-23 00:15:27 <phf> but considering that xfree86 came into prominence along with the whole linux pc hobbyist market, through the 90s it was a miracle when it worked at all, while in the 2000s, when the x.org fork happened, the attention shifted to "renders movies and games" and "linux on desktop"
44ae6b2441199613…ce2ced57…2022-11-28 16:06:07 <phf> unfortunately until there's a great switchover, can't really do multipart reliably, since it'll spit noise into log
a39413072c8eef51…19f942e6…2022-11-10 18:11:35 <asciilifeform> well, same log, but with flag 'not goes to console'
b6b3109f2c8eef51…1b2f7cbe…2022-11-10 18:38:25 <shinohai> "Tether reportedly begins freezing $USDT addresses owned by FTX at the request of law enforcement" <<< LMAO!
d6793fcbdfda6566…dfda6566…2022-11-13 18:31:56 asciilifeform would bite bullet and bake 'native' gui per os, but ugh linux's gtk (afaik aint statically linkable at all)
befd64923aec61af…bdae217c…2022-11-14 18:58:54 <asciilifeform> signpost: neither fltk nor tk appear to have any provisions for scaling up fonts for menu, buttons, etc. i.e. hard-baked for ancient lcd
e418c2f4ccde5742…57a293cc…2022-11-22 02:37:10 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-21#1016712 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/raw-x-protocol.png
797d826c1ba3c94e…1ba3c94e…2022-11-23 00:18:58 <phf> so while there exists some platonic idea of x window system protocol that one could first principles from, the reality of still surviving artifacts is mostly dismal
44b716fb44ae6b24…44ae6b24…2022-11-28 16:11:35 <phf> also multipart message not being it's own command type makes me think that asciilifeform has discovered some quality prince george's county dope.
2d38df6eb959815b…b959815b…2022-11-06 22:12:41 <phf> in fact the whisperer you know is the only person who actually does anything with his hoard, beyond "boot it up, and looked at the company logo". i find it to be extremely dull otherwise. i was imagining community of people using their dos machines to write demoscene code, or running their automation with turbo pascal or w
c9c98500a3941307…a3941307…2022-11-10 18:12:15 <asciilifeform> (ideally would show as specially-marked turd in gui, show hexdump if clicked or somesuch)
d5dfc84cb6b3109f…656e8311…2022-11-10 18:41:48 <asciilifeform> next yr: 'blather begins freezing tether addrs at req of lol enforcement'
3a80c5d7befd6492…befd6492…2022-11-14 18:59:40 <asciilifeform> this leaves afaik gtk, qt, and wx. found purported ada bindings for the 1st 2, but neither (unsurprise, circa early 2000s) builds
6e4d0bbde418c2f4…ccde5742…2022-11-22 02:38:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-21 15:26:46 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: if anyone has 1) box with xorg 2) spare 5min -- plox to test & write in.
d014bc9a797d826c…797d826c…2022-11-23 00:22:03 <phf> that's also how succesful wayland propaganda works: same people who drove a questionable xorg/xfree86 architecture and codebase into the ground to the point of basically going "fuck this shit, we can't solve all these old standing problems, that we ourselves created" can then attack x as ecosystem with a strawman of their
574a081844b716fb…6672f35e…2022-11-28 16:18:32 <asciilifeform> phf: notion was that old clients will eat'em as standard msgs. lemme know if dope (not tried experimentally, and jonsykkel suggested that his may not, tho can't presently recall why)
2150667c9c5fa457…9c5fa457…2022-12-01 09:49:49 <crtdaydreams> in other lulz; the first people to recieve a neuralace implant after it's been mitm'd because it runs on fucking bluetooth of all things
c0d80d65c9c98500…c9c98500…2022-11-10 18:12:58 <asciilifeform> at some pt there likely will be pestnets with multitude of not necessarily 100% compat. clients; then will be useful
1597a7b63a80c5d7…3aec61af…2022-11-14 19:00:39 <signpost> https://www.fltk.org/doc-1.3/classFl__Widget.html#a9a10a8d1f48d2951f7aba9018dd42d9f << maybe this thing?
26badbafd014bc9a…d014bc9a…2022-11-23 00:22:03 <phf> questionable implementation, that they themselves are then going to replace with own better™ solution
3a8e18e9574a0818…574a0818…2022-11-28 16:19:04 asciilifeform originally had'em as separate msg coades. then concocted the kludge pictured.
a39f76d12a9e47ea…2a9e47ea…2022-11-30 18:01:12 <phf> in totally random projects, i got mp-wp working with sqlite
c4a437dc2150667c…70a72875…2022-12-01 15:35:57 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: the link utterly fails to explain wtf the orig lul was
ce5cd5a72150667c…2150667c…2022-12-01 22:17:13 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: just a joak about latest muskrat "show and tell," positing that dood wants human read/write ~6mo from now.
de514ded515d0b3c…e2c47e95…2022-11-06 23:53:26 asciilifeform was running (personal wankature, rather than amzing publishable heroisms..) cnc control under dos for a while. today has pen166 for gamez, with roland etc. but not any more tries to demoscene etc
26720930c0d80d65…c0d80d65…2022-11-10 18:13:35 <asciilifeform> the important part is to gracefully handle malformed msgs, in particular -- not to infinitely attempt to getdata'em
48b86e2cc6d40ba4…c6d40ba4…2022-11-22 03:33:23 <asciilifeform> phf: didja have to fiddle with it before it went ?
0cca111b26badbaf…26badbaf…2022-11-23 00:23:49 <phf> but they are also right at the same time, because there's no x outside of xorg/xlib/xcb/gtk/kms/drm and the ungodly interaction of those components
a6da535e26badbaf…37e5d897…2022-11-23 01:04:19 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform (who normally quick on trigger to say 'it suxx') not even concluded 'x is broken!11'. rather, it simply has ~0 error handling (and none even promised in the manual, fwiw)
05ba17973a8e18e9…3a8e18e9…2022-11-28 16:20:54 <asciilifeform> fwiw if blatta & smalpest indeed would choke on the proposed multipart -- there's then 0 point in not making'em separate codes and dispensing with the kludge
50dd817fa39f76d1…a39f76d1…2022-11-30 18:04:26 <phf> well, "working". enough to do an install, click around dashboard, post an article, but lots of broken sql still
931e47d1c4a437dc…c4a437dc…2022-12-01 21:51:58 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: ftr in general the assumption that erryone tuned in 'read latest reddit' or fishwrap etc. aint true. can't speak for other folx, but asciilifeform reads neither.
02fb8461ce5cd5a7…ce5cd5a7…2022-12-01 23:40:35 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-01#1017221 << ftr in general the assumption that everyone tuned in 'uses google' or participates in societ etc. aint true. can't speak for other folx, but phf does neither.
0237aceade514ded…de514ded…2022-11-06 23:53:44 <asciilifeform> and come to think of it not booted up for ~2y nao
07a3fee726720930…2c8eef51…2022-11-10 18:14:03 <signpost> asciilifeform: wife points out "adddressless" typo in 1.7 paragraph 2
e0401961b9691b3b…3a80c5d7…2022-11-14 19:01:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: mnope. doesn't fix menu bar, buttons, etc. found (but not have link handy) explanation where author 'yea it's pixel-based, no provision for scaling'
8f0c270148b86e2c…48b86e2c…2022-11-22 03:34:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-21#1016714 << clx aint ~actually~ bloated; it simply supports the whole (or sumthing like) x11 protocol, which asciilifeform thinks aint needed for na kolenke gui (really, ask xserver to draw lines? wats wrong with drawing'em as if we're in msdos, in memory, etc)
faa16648a6da535e…a6da535e…2022-11-23 01:04:46 <asciilifeform> so far found that in fact still worx entirely as described in the ancient deadtree.
03a36dd105ba1797…05ba1797…2022-11-28 16:21:28 asciilifeform admits that not read either prototype in sufficient detail to be certain of the answer
560a5a4950dd817f…dad6c02c…2022-11-30 18:14:51 <asciilifeform> phf: interesting ( asciilifeform did not know that sqlite were to this degree incompat. )
0a49df1e931e47d1…931e47d1…2022-12-01 21:52:30 <asciilifeform> (and consequently has absolutely nfi what a 'neuralace implant' is/was)
25cc351b02fb8461…bb4e1fc8…2022-12-01 23:41:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-01 17:11:31 awt: asciilifeform: wainot google?
085a48c9e3af3a94…0a49df1e…2022-12-02 02:34:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-01#1017223 << a++
4a994eaae3af3a94…e3af3a94…2022-12-04 05:23:31 <crtdaydreams> phf: do you have an ebuild for libsdl-1.2?
fcb23e7d0237acea…0237acea…2022-11-06 23:55:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015648 << specifically recall one such fella. but yea prolly not 'goal driven' at all, but 'i'ma get hold of this magick artifact, how could i not' etc
175d6c4b5930b012…cc445557…2022-11-10 19:14:43 <billymg> guys, he's sorry! https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1590709166515310593
655a60324d877fb6…5ddbf5c3…2022-11-13 18:33:00 <asciilifeform> fixing fltk may be 'easiest' way to make this go
2ee9aaf18f0c2701…6e4d0bbd…2022-11-22 03:35:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-21 21:32:11 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-21#1016701 << i like this "write everything from scratch" approach, but no need to hate on clx, it's written in the age when corporate entities still produced tight and usable code
1c7af8c1faa16648…faa16648…2022-11-23 01:05:22 asciilifeform fwiw not tried to use the direct-to-memory extensions, shm etc. cuz not writing a shooter, lol, but simply text proggy
9d0bd5d803a36dd1…44b716fb…2022-11-28 16:22:12 <phf> it's got a big of a makefile effect: you'll have a kludge that's relevant for about a month, and then it becomes legacy kludge forever
8cb7322b560a5a49…560a5a49…2022-11-30 18:15:19 asciilifeform on the occasions where used it ( e.g. early phuctor ) was able to switch to postgres with minimal changes
636e7595085a48c9…25cc351b…2022-12-02 02:35:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-01 18:41:42 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-01#1017221 << ftr in general the assumption that everyone tuned in 'uses google' or participates in societ etc. aint true. can't speak for other folx, but phf does neither.
1a63a16afcb23e7d…4a25c982…2022-11-06 23:56:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 17:11:53 phf[awt]: well, right, also i got exposed to retro hardware culture, and the hoarding and the associated folly. a lot of your rants about "not interested in reversing because devalues rembrandts" assumes rational, goal driven behavior. in reality mostly crazy people with compulsions, "only rep
cfe3d9c58f9515f3…26720930…2022-11-10 18:14:26 <asciilifeform> signpost: ty. prolly over9000 typos, asciilifeform not yet made any attempt to comb for'em
ca435aae655a6032…655a6032…2022-11-13 18:33:19 <asciilifeform> (prolly beats the shit outta trying to bake from 0)
69b803a62ee9aaf1…8f0c2701…2022-11-22 03:36:08 asciilifeform just minutes ago uncrated ancient dead tree x proto manuals. may be able to turn above into sumthing useful at some pt...
487964eb1c7af8c1…1c7af8c1…2022-11-23 01:05:36 <asciilifeform> + would like it to work over tunnels like normal xisms
1421b1ad9d0bd5d8…03a36dd1…2022-11-28 16:22:19 <asciilifeform> (there's a reason it's a 'pre-draft' lol)
7651956e8cb7322b…50dd817f…2022-11-30 18:43:48 <phf> asciilifeform, sure, if all you do is selects and inserts. wp is full of custom mysql optimizations, hacks and functions
96beddcc636e7595…085a48c9…2022-12-02 02:36:15 asciilifeform still periodically attempts google for strings like 'X11_EVENT_MASK_EXPOSURE' but moar often disappointed than not
9a05f37dcdb37d0a…cdb37d0a…2022-12-04 05:47:39 <crtdaydreams> fugg. 32bit on a non-multilib sys is like square peg and round hole
83ebbb9d1a63a16a…1a63a16a…2022-11-07 02:26:07 <phf> sometimes i'll see posts about a dos machine wordstar or apple macintosh being the ultimate writing station, but somehow never the great american novel from same author. it's still better though than "macintosh in original packaging, on shelf"
8bc479a5f78c943a…573a466f…2022-11-10 19:15:20 <signpost> asciilifeform: what brings in the 0xF after N in chained multipart msgs? byte alignment?
4a3f67e8ca435aae…ca435aae…2022-11-13 18:33:50 <asciilifeform> that, or pinching nose and linking ada 'libpest' into a qt horror
1b6c9713836338d4…50feb2d8…2022-11-14 19:02:17 asciilifeform if can't use $proggy on main machine where 3 x 4k lcd, won't be bothering with $lib
2d2ea1a669b803a6…69b803a6…2022-11-22 03:36:50 asciilifeform suspects the demo choked on the other box on acct of not actually parsing all the xauth entries in the turd. will need to find out how... maybe will crib clx's
ae63ba81487964eb…487964eb…2022-11-23 01:06:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016759 << last asciilifeform knew, the wayland people managed to replicate the microshit graphics system faithfully, incl. crashes and 'want remote? here's a 1024x768 desktop' etc
c4c6f15c7651956e…7651956e…2022-11-30 18:44:17 <phf> you wouldn't be able to trivially get it working with postgresql, or rather it'll require about as much changes as i've done so far
7cdad4fb9a05f37d…9a05f37d…2022-12-04 17:36:46 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-03#1017289 << correct method is to Xnest :3&;DISPLAY=:3 twm&
3596d7df9a05f37d…9a05f37d…2022-12-05 23:40:42 <crtdaydreams> my 5c on serialization & markup. we also have to take into account e.g. whitespace between split messages, incl. potential tabulation. I tend to agree with asciilifeform, although my twist on his words is that bandwidth usage should take priority. My first thought was also
398c799283ebbb9d…fcb23e7d…2022-11-07 04:02:10 <asciilifeform> some folx cream pants when they discover an old comp where 'wow, no updateism', fullscreen proggies, etc.
f7e211e11b6c9713…1b6c9713…2022-11-14 19:03:17 <asciilifeform> apropos. there seems to be a catastrophic shortage of anyffin usable for this purpose.
65f7cc39ae63ba81…e515202a…2022-11-23 01:07:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 19:23:08 phf[awt]: that's also how succesful wayland propaganda works: same people who drove a questionable xorg/xfree86 architecture and codebase into the ground to the point of basically going "fuck this shit, we can't solve all these old standing problems, that we ourselves created" can then attack
ead2b135c30546a7…c30546a7…2022-11-28 16:22:47 asciilifeform was thinking 'can avoid fragmenting an already small pestnet?'
981325826c91814f…6c91814f…2022-12-02 02:38:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-01#1017222 << asciilifeform's experience with (attempting) musk products was lulzy flop. one time tried to buy the solar+battery thing, sat in bureaucratic hell for ~6mo and died from 'we demand proof that you actually use $kwatt at $address (which sat vacant for 6mo, so ~no kW)'
a19220137cdad4fb…30fb0d8f…2022-12-04 17:37:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-03 13:03:31 asciilifeform[6]: suspects an oddball interaction b/w this thing and 'ratpoison' wm. the events only start to roll when re-exposed somewhere ~other~ than the wm frame where window originally appears
33f6f0d63596d7df…9e1d9720…2022-12-05 23:41:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 12:30:51 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017438 << imho 'parse fast' is a false god, and in particular in context of pestron, which eats over9000 cpu for decoding packets
31ef87093596d7df…d75394f5…2022-12-05 23:55:38 <shinohai> ATTN peers (especially d4, who complained about missing peers) I have tried testing running awt's pest on pogoplug last few weeks, and it *does work* but it has unexplained behaviour, like messages missing that appear in logs. Ran better on armv7 machine (as far as 32bit things go) so imma switch back to that in a few days
139df024f7e211e1…f7e211e1…2022-11-14 19:03:25 <asciilifeform> (even if toss out 'cross platform' req)
77f674f865f7cc39…ae63ba81…2022-11-23 01:07:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-22#1016757 << btw any idea what crapple's variant of x was made out of ? (is it simply xfree86 on top of their graphics stack?)
33c6f2495b3d3efa…c4c6f15c…2022-11-30 18:45:58 <phf> some you might be able to solve by providing a function shim with postgresql, but not with sqlite, because the later doesn't support function definitions
879deb0298132582…636e7595…2022-12-02 02:39:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-01 17:18:19 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: asciilifeform: just a joak about latest muskrat "show and tell," positing that dood wants human read/write ~6mo from now.
12486949587b04bc…33f6f0d6…2022-12-05 23:41:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 12:54:08 phf[awt]: cl-who's (tag :attr value body…) looks the most elegant, but it's the ugliest on the code side, since your attribute collection is a state machine
226f0f01139df024…836338d4…2022-11-14 19:08:46 <signpost> one approach might be to specify a client/server protocol between the station and a UI, or bot, or w/e.
4b91fb6677f674f8…65f7cc39…2022-11-23 01:08:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 19:16:42 phf[awt]: but considering that xfree86 came into prominence along with the whole linux pc hobbyist market, through the 90s it was a miracle when it worked at all, while in the 2000s, when the x.org fork happened, the attention shifted to "renders movies and games" and "linux on desktop"
9f96668f33c6f249…5b3d3efa…2022-11-30 18:46:28 asciilifeform was not among the folx fascinated with mpwp, as had own roughly equiv. (actually moar trimmed, killed errything to do with uploading/file management, as always did this over mc)
8e3586ce879deb02…98132582…2022-12-02 02:39:55 <asciilifeform> ... evidently needed a bribe, but had nfi where to take it.
4586b8804f196267…303640bd…2022-12-04 17:40:43 <phf> you also want https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/man/man1/xscope.1.html
13e2a1fe7c918e99…7c918e99…2022-12-06 00:36:17 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: if you need to rekey, send a smoke signal on #asciilifeform and I'll shoot some peering info your way
4c5c3c934b91fb66…0cca111b…2022-11-23 01:11:06 <phf> asciilifeform, my point is that xorg is designed for "linux on desktop", assumes well behaved clients in the form of essentially gtk apps. this is not how things used to be done. i've learned x programing with a sgi o2 machine that they sold at terrapin trader, and sgi wrote their own X implementation called Xsgi, which, w
5a8238999f96668f…33c6f249…2022-11-30 18:46:52 <phf> e.g. mysql has YEAR(date) MONTH(date) etc. which is not in postgresql. similar can be accomplished with strftime('%Y',date) in sqlite. etc.
d2156c498e3586ce…8e3586ce…2022-12-02 02:40:59 <asciilifeform> (musk co. blamed local bureaucrats, but this fails laugh test imho)
dfec74d54586b880…4f196267…2022-12-04 17:40:57 asciilifeform has been puzzling over moar mundane puzzlers : wai can't draw anywhere close to the edge of the window w/out crash? wai the xcb example properly occupies resized (by ratpoison) window with white bg, but asciilifeform's -- not? etc
f505c4ce13e2a1fe…ea6b9807…2022-12-06 00:41:35 <shinohai> my db intact just don't wanna lose touch with my peeps :)
8866c3ba13e2a1fe…13e2a1fe…2022-12-06 00:45:58 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: currently hearing you as hearsay, if you got a minute mebbe we can fix that
d86429501dbcb7d9…1dbcb7d9…2022-11-14 19:09:15 <signpost> just whenever I encounter an ambiguity like this, first urge is to define an interface so the ambiguous part can be thrown away repeatedly until right
6842c5f94c5c3c93…4c5c3c93…2022-11-23 01:11:06 <phf> ritten as it was by grownups, didn't exhibit this kind of corner behaviors. was entirely bulletproof when it came to faulty x packets, weird states, etc.
bb9ed7cd5a823899…5a823899…2022-11-30 18:47:48 <phf> asciilifeform, i don't think it's particularly important that it's mp-wp, i at some point did some work figuring out the diff against stock wp 2.7, and there's not much.
664b160ed2156c49…d2156c49…2022-12-02 02:42:08 <asciilifeform> fwiw offering to buy enuff battery that not needs grid at all -- not worked, supposedly not allowed.
482b3ca92d07c23b…9f3ff302…2022-12-04 17:38:25 <phf> spins up a window, and if you connect to display 3, you get your shit running in that window. also localizes lockups, etc.
4688740f2d07c23b…2d07c23b…2022-12-04 17:38:34 asciilifeform has been using crapple lappy for x experiments ever since that lul
0a76677ddfec74d5…dfec74d5…2022-12-04 17:41:44 asciilifeform tried catching configurenotify event but it doesn't appear that xcb does any such thing by default. nor does that ev fire at creation (there's anuther one that does, but again xcb duncare)
0c95bf4b8866c3ba…8866c3ba…2022-12-06 00:50:41 <crtdaydreams> shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=oSVV
32d767f7d8642950…139df024…2022-11-14 19:10:32 <asciilifeform> signpost: naturally can bake per-platform ui in cpp, and link in a 'libpest'. but would rather not have any overflowlang in the build at all
bd64ea4e6842c5f9…6842c5f9…2022-11-23 01:12:25 <phf> as far as wayland, there aren't "wayland people", the system is being developed by the xorg people, in fact xorg itself has been in "maintenance mode" for a while now, where the bulk of xorg work goes into xwayland, an embeded wayland subsystem for running x programs
02ed199f664b160e…664b160e…2022-12-02 18:59:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-01#1017229 << it used to be a certain type of person who'd google "facebook" to go to "facebook.com". and i've literally seen it, and not just the search bar. person will type google.com, put facebook in the search box, and then click on result.
8fb336d54688740f…a1922013…2022-12-04 17:39:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 00:20:27 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: nfi whether the approach is practical yet. (managed to, so far, wedge x; and then, separately, to create unkillable zombie window after process killed, grr)
be9607af0a76677d…4586b880…2022-12-04 17:42:13 <phf> well, xscope might help. that's a packet tracer, works the same way as everything else on x (shittily, lul): sets up a fake server, connects to real server (or Xnest in your case), clients connect to fake server, and whatever goes over wire gets dumped
69e3eca10c95bf4b…0c95bf4b…2022-12-06 00:56:21 <crtdaydreams> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Vzh9 this is just %at; valid for PeterL, asciilifeform, unpx and shinohai
9a9c7fcf0c95bf4b…f505c4ce…2022-12-06 01:00:12 <shinohai> crtdaydreams: Don't rekey for me just yet but ack on ur pgpgram
0726f52f32d767f7…32d767f7…2022-11-14 19:11:05 <asciilifeform> otherwise risk 'submarine with screen door'(tm)
341da589385002ec…385002ec…2022-11-30 18:48:22 <asciilifeform> (from asciilifeform's pov was a much less aggressive cut than ideal)
2bb0869602ed199f…879deb02…2022-12-02 19:00:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-01 21:37:30 asciilifeform[5]: 'search engine is dead'(tm)
351180088fb336d5…4688740f…2022-12-04 17:38:59 <asciilifeform> at least there can restart x w/out fucking over9000 things
476de719be9607af…0a76677d…2022-12-04 17:42:35 <asciilifeform> loox useful. asciilifeform has been using strace as an ad-hoc xscope
2f40f3800726f52f…0726f52f…2022-11-14 19:11:38 <asciilifeform> would be useful for other proggies also, to have a sane gui avail.
057ded3bb0bb0a05…b0bb0a05…2022-11-23 01:15:14 <phf> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/tree/master/hw/xwayland https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/tree/master/hw/xquartz etc
2304bd4a341da589…341da589…2022-11-30 18:48:54 <asciilifeform> there was 1 pheature, where correctly displays pgp sigs; welded it onto mine with no problems
e3bd7d362bb08696…02ed199f…2022-12-02 19:00:04 <phf> but i feel like these days that's exclusively what i use search engines for
303640bd35118008…482b3ca9…2022-12-04 17:39:36 <phf> there's enough tooling to not have to do anything this sevage, not that i'm opposed to using apple lappy ofcourse
035d36d2476de719…be9607af…2022-12-04 17:43:37 <phf> there's also xtrace that does the same thing, i've not used it. i've used xscope a bunch for debugging genera and for writing from scratch x11 code
c56483a187bdace8…9a9c7fcf…2022-12-06 01:04:37 <shinohai> So far it seems common to occasionally see peers as hearsay, I had confusion over that point with awt at first but seems to work proper.
5a121d6587bdace8…87bdace8…2022-12-06 01:06:28 <crtdaydreams> not so sure on that, mebbe a glitch with your arm issues, but running smalpest here, everytime I've had hearsay it's because my IP has changed and it hasn't auto magically updated for other peers
d8083bd72f40f380…2f40f380…2022-11-14 19:12:23 <asciilifeform> thus far found only desert landscape with skeletons.
a7873abe2304bd4a…bb9ed7cd…2022-11-30 18:48:58 <phf> actually updating the code to php 82 or whatever i ran into pretty much every instance of mp code, because his shit always violates some restriction or another :>
71663e0ae3bd7d36…e3bd7d36…2022-12-02 19:00:37 <phf> works great for "mysql documentation download", not much else. it's almost become a game as to how fake and gay the result might get
29ed72c8035d36d2…476de719…2022-12-04 17:43:57 <asciilifeform> reportedly new wireshark also does (but naturally won't build under asciilifeform's gentoo lol)
0e0e4d4a60005e0a…77f674f8…2022-11-23 01:57:29 asciilifeform had o2 in office, long ago, for yrs, but not programmed for it -- it ran 3d visualized thing with fantastically expensive visor helmet
69d15ee471663e0a…71663e0a…2022-12-02 19:07:41 <phf> like i'm reading recent locklin, and wanted to see what echelon mounted turrets are, naively searching for "echelon mount" gives you "echelon reflect fitness mirror stand" and "echelon portable bike laptop holder" and similar junk
d9568c2429ed72c8…035d36d2…2022-12-04 17:44:12 <phf> but yeah, you put xscope on 3, you put xtrace on 4 and connect to 3, you connect your app to 4 and you're golden
74e17e4b2efc92ce…2efc92ce…2022-11-14 19:14:02 <signpost> would communication with the station via a socket be undesirable?
17d03a1d2efc92ce…d8083bd7…2022-11-14 19:14:07 <asciilifeform> presently asciilifeform has no leads at all. fltk & tk seem to be catastrophically misarchitected, would likely take moar effort to fix than to bake replacement from 0
d7e8dfd00e0e4d4a…0e0e4d4a…2022-11-23 01:57:50 <asciilifeform> interesting re xsgi & corner cases, had nfi.
5b04e530bbd3b0f5…bbd3b0f5…2022-11-30 18:51:58 asciilifeform is of the 'ideal amt of php is 0' school of thought, but doesn't expect to ever have time to recreate wp in cl or the like with own hands, so there it remains
e2a7ad3369d15ee4…69d15ee4…2022-12-02 19:10:04 <phf> because some corp shit is squatting a military term, your vector cloud without further restrictions collates to "you must be wanting to buuuuy thangs, we got you fam, how bout them light fixtures!"
53acb1cdd9568c24…29ed72c8…2022-12-04 17:45:02 <asciilifeform> and yes this is prolly the only way to solve the case. gnarly.
329d80c9932ffada…932ffada…2022-12-06 01:07:15 <shinohai> (But as I understand client should take care of that?)
939fba65c19e5adc…c19e5adc…2022-12-06 01:54:54 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017609 << this is not the anywhere near the initial sync. for one i don't keep netchain. i start (in violation of the spec, that's otherwise ignored) each new launch of pest with sending prod, getting latest message, and then linking my nechain off that, and selfchain of 0
ad106bf9c19e5adc…c19e5adc…2022-12-08 00:49:08 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017734 << is there atonement for transgressions past, or must one wait in eternal restlessness for consequence?
3dc3ea5e614822f9…614822f9…2022-11-10 19:44:34 signpost will want to get his hands into his own implementation at some point after his encoder's done
f214d744d7e8dfd0…d7e8dfd0…2022-11-23 02:00:14 <asciilifeform> phf: didja have to patch 'modern' x to connect with bolix ? (which asciilifeform would expect aint least bit 'gtk-like' in behaviour)
c4b81f425b04e530…a7873abe…2022-11-30 18:56:11 <phf> oh, here's another mysql-ism, that's all over wp
47d283dbe2a7ad33…e2a7ad33…2022-12-02 19:12:11 <phf> it's an equivalent of coming to a library and getting a accosted by one of those mid-2000s pirate cd guys, "yo yo yo got rhiana what you want got all the latest tracks right here"
5285d1f153acb1cd…d9568c24…2022-12-04 17:45:21 <phf> it's also stock, it comes with x11 installation, and will be on your apple already
0ae1c884939fba65…12486949…2022-12-06 01:56:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 16:26:33 awt: phf: is your netchain up to date?
e6c1e379ad106bf9…0d0f48cd…2022-12-08 00:50:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-07 12:00:03 signpost: all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
46155032ad106bf9…ad106bf9…2022-12-08 00:59:17 <crtdaydreams> I ask for a nietzschean lens, but all other interpretations are welcome.
8e12f40c3dc3ea5e…77ec3022…2022-11-10 19:45:08 <asciilifeform> ty signpost . imho could be made clearer, still needs (in addition to the obv. missing chapters) pseudocoad algos for msg eating/shitting etc, illustration of chain mechanics, coupla other things
a158e313f214d744…60005e0a…2022-11-23 02:07:23 <phf> asciilifeform, yes, there's a handful of ops in genera that'll hard lock x server. one during boot, which is documented in most "how to opengenera.tar.bz2 on linux". i believe the version i'm running has been pre-patched
31c01230c4b81f42…c4b81f42…2022-11-30 18:57:45 <phf> if you do SELECT SQL_CALC_FOUND_ROWS ... LIMIT 10, you can then do SELECT FOUND_ROWS() and it'll tell you how many rows the first query had without the limit
93bfddb847d283db…4151342f…2022-12-02 19:13:38 signpost would still love to see someone implement page rank with a bias for log-links.
2bfc96b65285d1f1…53acb1cd…2022-12-04 17:45:47 asciilifeform and not even touched the horror of actually cobbling together sumthing resembling a gui 'from raw atoms' when finally have a working drawable window & signals
51b4d4a20ae1c884…939fba65…2022-12-06 01:56:09 <phf> at which point things always work, no problem. this particular situation happen when there was a packet loss on the network, and your station was trying to reconstruct missing holes
d86125de46155032…3c529ff1…2022-12-08 02:03:14 <signpost> I don't get the question. atonement from what?
b95c1f3d46155032…46155032…2022-12-08 02:44:33 <crtdaydreams> Broadly; atonement from wrongs done unto others. Whether it be something I've said that I too believe was wrong (not to be conflated with merely an offence), or something I have done that I have had good cause to regret.
2bdc59058e12f40c…8e12f40c…2022-11-10 19:45:49 <asciilifeform> a naive reader may not immed. understand why messages are chained, and why some but not others, for instance
8e89751c9acde7bb…9acde7bb…2022-11-14 19:15:55 <asciilifeform> problem is 'canhaz graphical chat box w/out cpp?'
6097cd0ca158e313…a158e313…2022-11-23 03:07:59 <phf> also the particular hard lock was introduced in the recent version of xorg, because for a longest time the instruction was to run redhat 6.x vintage to get opengenera working
01fc217131c01230…31c01230…2022-11-30 18:58:49 <phf> basically you can avoid the overhead of second call with count(*) or haven to reconstruct that query or whatever. naturally it's a pain to fix
5c3cecd993bfddb8…93bfddb8…2022-12-02 19:15:56 signpost was shopping-adjacent when sat at the aforementioned, so can only agree with phf that it'd be nice to have a search engine that wasn't a chimera with sales.
dc8428152bfc96b6…5285d1f1…2022-12-04 17:46:12 <phf> asciilifeform, i've down this ungodly path of yours before, so i've tooled up :>
71f339bf51b4d4a2…51b4d4a2…2022-12-06 01:57:42 <phf> so e.g. there's A *B C D E, where B didn't go through for some reason, i'll get a getdata request for a missing packet from you immediately when you get C, which is the correct behavior. things turn into a mess immediately after
69c5dbc2b95c1f3d…70a6534c…2022-12-08 02:48:26 <signpost> what's the atonement do? presumably keep the others from taking revenge on you by mutual agreement to The Rules.
d805a29bb95c1f3d…b95c1f3d…2022-12-08 02:48:52 <crtdaydreams> signpost: alleviates the guilty conscience.
757d74332bdc5905…3dc3ea5e…2022-11-10 19:46:02 <signpost> looking forward to when the spec itself can sit in asciilifeform's chain of messages, either as multipart message or hash-reference to pdf.
543173a48e89751c…437d13e4…2022-11-14 19:49:19 <signpost> yep, getting owned at the UI layer isn't better than getting owned at the station layer
7bd0e7936097cd0c…6097cd0c…2022-11-23 03:08:34 <phf> for a longest time, meaning since the regression got intorduced until recently when it was fixed on genera side
5b7034d801fc2171…01fc2171…2022-11-30 19:04:24 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-30#1017190 << it's about same level of trash as perl, python or javascript. i'm hacking it with intellij and php plugin and it's a very smooth experience. jump to definition, auto format, tons of refactoring features, etc.
438e0d6b5c3cecd9…47d283db…2022-12-02 19:16:31 <phf> and the other thing, what's up with KIDS these days? am i right!
6f71307771f339bf…71f339bf…2022-12-06 01:59:29 <phf> i'll send messages after, and _all my consequitive_ messages will be stuck in order buffer for something like 2-6 minutes, and when they are spooled form the order buffer, they won't even be remotely in the correct order
e058cca0824a6c64…824a6c64…2022-12-08 02:04:33 <signpost> forgiveness is for you, keeps your brain from baby-bathwatering useful chunks of identity by attaching them too tightly to an enemy.
5aaca91bd805a29b…69c5dbc2…2022-12-08 02:48:57 <signpost> if it's not that, it's entirely between your ears.
0abd43bb757d7433…757d7433…2022-11-10 19:46:24 <signpost> yup. that said my wife was able to explain to me why this was better than signal, so that's pretty cool.
1356c797543173a4…543173a4…2022-11-14 19:49:37 <signpost> looking for cpp-less binding, or fully cpp-less communcation with X?
9ee9751f7bd0e793…f214d744…2022-11-23 03:53:28 <asciilifeform> a ha that'd explain wai the traditional recipe is to stuff it in vmware w/ old rathead
a07249375b7034d8…844ea254…2022-11-30 19:10:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-30 13:53:05 asciilifeform[6]: is of the 'ideal amt of php is 0' school of thought, but doesn't expect to ever have time to recreate wp in cl or the like with own hands, so there it remains
add0e37cf77ff4ff…7f560345…2022-11-30 19:12:43 <asciilifeform> phf: loox like our peering not worx atm
71ab74f7438e0d6b…438e0d6b…2022-12-02 19:16:49 <phf> my default engine for search bar is set to "marginialia", its results are almost entirely useless, but provide a kind of meditation on the folly of search
80e2c119889045d3…889045d3…2022-12-04 17:49:09 asciilifeform continues to uncover ungodly horrors of the deep, e.g. events which come with a 'there's N similar events following this one' counter
ff494d716f713077…6f713077…2022-12-06 02:00:01 <phf> as you can see on bitdash, if you compare it against corresponding paste of my input
70a6534ce058cca0…e058cca0…2022-12-08 02:05:25 <signpost> the dead are dead from cause, not towards purpose.
9b580ebfe5474c7f…e5474c7f…2022-12-08 02:51:55 <crtdaydreams> saying it's entirely between your ears seems rather solipsistic imo.
38cfde721356c797…8e89751c…2022-11-14 20:24:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: ideally looking for 'like wx but with ada-able c interface' but realistically 'cppless with x11' is prolly the limit of what is doable without over9000 manhour
3b7386f69ee9751f…9ee9751f…2022-11-23 03:54:52 asciilifeform thinks he recalls being able to xtunnel to ye olde dec alpha genera, but may be imagining, been some yrs since booted that one
1690d406a0724937…5b04e530…2022-11-30 19:10:27 asciilifeform not tried intellij php, but many yrs ago did time in a saltmine with their java editor, was a++
4f8d6be771ab74f7…5c3cecd9…2022-12-02 19:17:01 <signpost> what we really need is a tiktok competitor! but with construction paper branding
fc0e0e8880e2c119…80e2c119…2022-12-04 17:49:50 <asciilifeform> or for that matter various in-memory 'planes' which appear to be required to get scrolling, double-buffering, etc
062fed66ff494d71…ff494d71…2022-12-06 02:00:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017588 and http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017600
ae0287589b580ebf…5aaca91b…2022-12-08 02:52:01 <signpost> tradition says if you feel guilty, good. you know you're an animal, whereas the next guy's pretending he's not.
0e6ef8149b580ebf…9b580ebf…2022-12-08 02:53:01 <crtdaydreams> there are consequences from those actions that have a direct effect on others, wasn't constraining that definition of guilt to an internal representation
c8bf1073a3408973…0abd43bb…2022-11-10 19:46:42 <signpost> written as is. and she doesn't code, though obviously listens to me discuss it all the time.
da1ce06d38cfde72…38cfde72…2022-11-14 20:25:39 asciilifeform considered 'talk to x w/ domain sockets' but 0 useful ref material within easy reach, may have to uncrate ancient manuals
0e241e753b7386f6…3b7386f6…2022-11-23 03:55:13 <asciilifeform> and for that matter can't recall on ~what~ precisely was the other end of that tunnel
d2fc4e204f8d6be7…4f8d6be7…2022-12-02 19:17:28 <signpost> hah, yeah, ddg over here, same practically useless taste you know and crave
5d35d8cdfc0e0e88…dc842815…2022-12-04 17:50:24 <phf> well, my usecase is different, i've been idly writing a book, which is a kind of introduction to basic graphics programming fundamentals, by using a comon lisp reimplementation of an old macromedia based game. it's got a little bit of everything, if you want to know how computer gr oSM^-TH66 ҚW
f9764dee062fed66…0ae1c884…2022-12-06 02:01:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:13:25 phf[awt]: how the fuck did awt's packet reordering logic went from this http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_dg1 to this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017578
e5be0bc9ae028758…ae028758…2022-12-08 02:52:25 <signpost> your psychological guilt is literally a data structure between your ears.
7598dec10e6ef814…e5be0bc9…2022-12-08 02:54:05 <signpost> so fix the consequences if they bother you.
cebab7470e6ef814…0e6ef814…2022-12-08 02:54:55 <crtdaydreams> I can't find the thread, but the one good thing that came out of verisimilitude was along the lines of "I don't make mistakes anymore"
b3e597ffda1ce06d…da1ce06d…2022-11-14 20:26:23 <asciilifeform> and of course ^ reopens the 'write font renderer, scroller, etc. widgetry from 0' sisyphian labour
3905cd4a0e241e75…6aa4e569…2022-11-23 14:04:40 <billymg> has anyone here used a whole house surge protector before? like this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Whole-House-Surge-Protector-CHSPT2ULTRA-1/204761136
1411f4b1d2fc4e20…d2fc4e20…2022-12-02 19:17:53 <signpost> some speakers are more important than others, can only be solved well with wot
315054775d35d8cd…5d35d8cd…2022-12-04 17:50:24 <phf> aphics work from first principles or how to do "real" code in lisp. binary data parsing, PCX from scratch, bitblit, cinepak as an example of video encoding (it's very easy to work with). so all i needed was a way to canvas oSM^-TH66 ҚW
65ea4420f9764dee…f9764dee…2022-12-06 02:01:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:15:55 phf[awt]: notice the "getdata from awt, spooling" http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HJMK and here's how that same log arrives to readers http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017578
77e6c0707598dec1…7598dec1…2022-12-08 02:54:36 <signpost> if you can't, throw yourself on the mercy of those you wronged if you care so much.
025baa37cebab747…cebab747…2022-12-08 02:55:14 <crtdaydreams> pertaining to the idea of a correct response on eternal recurrence
d93293d5b3e597ff…b3e597ff…2022-11-14 21:01:03 asciilifeform turned up 'xcb', a possible approach to above
0d45f0c93905cd4a…0e241e75…2022-11-23 15:30:38 <asciilifeform> billymg: do nontrivial surges actually happen where you live?
f1b8b72f1411f4b1…1411f4b1…2022-12-02 19:18:06 <signpost> and that's too much hatespeech for anybody to get right in our democracy
fcae5f4a31505477…82604ff1…2022-12-04 17:54:51 <asciilifeform> buncha folx got various gear together, amassed a junkyard's worth of parts, and regularly convened, but mostly errybody tired from day job and merely 'shot the shit' and summed to 0
c3916bcc65ea4420…062fed66…2022-12-06 02:01:35 <phf> what i'm sending is A B C D E, i'll get a packet loss on B, will get a getdata for B on C, and then things get weird. some many minutes ago, what actually get spooled is some variotion of A C E D B
41a16e3b025baa37…77e6c070…2022-12-08 02:55:16 <signpost> if you don't care so much, you're playing with yourself by thinking about guilt.
9754e328025baa37…025baa37…2022-12-08 02:55:56 <crtdaydreams> evidently I would not bring this up if it did not have a sufficient impact on my daily functioning
91f7504fd93293d5…d93293d5…2022-11-14 21:02:38 <asciilifeform> purported ada binding. asciilifeform not tried justyet.
2560c7dd0d45f0c9…3905cd4a…2022-11-23 15:39:55 <billymg> asciilifeform: all my electronics are plugged into either UPS or surge protector strips, and a few fridges and washing machines each have their own one of these
5b829a8af1b8b72f…71ab74f7…2022-12-02 19:19:34 <phf> i stopped using ddg, when they decided to filter rt as a result of special operation :> i kind of yes-man-ed mp's point about "if you're using a search engine, your entire value system is wrong", "but but ddg is different, it says so on the label". not that i ever clicked on rt fro N k4ްB~Մncq{
b70a6a36d48b3e19…d48b3e19…2022-12-04 17:51:03 asciilifeform read a # of graphix b00kz, typically they start out 'get sdl' or similar
ec064642fcae5f4a…fcae5f4a…2022-12-04 17:55:48 <asciilifeform> a 'hack dc' made of ample-time aristocrats could be interesting, but asciilifeform won't be there lol
bbd871b2c3916bcc…c3916bcc…2022-12-06 02:06:55 <phf> i think that http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017636 was a novel situation, as opposed to a prior chain rebuild on an otherwise stable network, an attempt to error correct a live chain on an unstable one, which might've revealed some bugs?
d20d03bb91f7504f…4d877fb6…2022-11-14 23:02:44 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-14#1016214 << afaiu xcb is a rewrite of xlib to make networking a bit more sane, but otherwise doesn't solve any of your problems
25c3f1db2560c7dd…2560c7dd…2022-11-23 15:42:23 <billymg> before moving here never heard of surge protecting large appliances. learned about it when a new fridge i bought had its motherboard fried a month later. when the store sent a technician to replace it under warranty they recommended the appliance surge protectors
954cb6315b829a8a…5b829a8a…2022-12-02 19:19:34 <phf> m search, or even searched anything current thing related, but when they did drop it i realized that i'm an idiot. N k4ްB~Մncq{
c9df8313b70a6a36…31505477…2022-12-04 17:51:05 <phf> *a way to canvas within less than a chapters worth of implementation details
70831bdaec064642…ec064642…2022-12-04 17:56:56 <asciilifeform> 1 time at 'hackdc' they had a series of 'clojure' sessions, and asciilifeform attended, and after that wrote this
22dde368bbd871b2…65ea4420…2022-12-06 02:08:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 20:57:15 phf[awt]: at which point things always work, no problem. this particular situation happen when there was a packet loss on the network, and your station was trying to reconstruct missing holes
9bbc953cf611c2ed…4c570651…2022-12-08 02:57:08 <signpost> are you reading what I'm writing, or waiting to say more yourself?
5ea01dd3d20d03bb…081fa68c…2022-11-14 23:03:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-14 16:02:06 asciilifeform[6]: turned up 'xcb', a possible approach to above
efb0dce925c3f1db…25c3f1db…2022-11-23 15:43:22 <billymg> asciilifeform: don't know for sure about surges but regularly notice e.g. lights dimming slightly, so the power definitely isn't clean and consistent
ded2f5c8954cb631…f1b8b72f…2022-12-02 19:20:14 <signpost> most of my use of the address bar is to pull up a particular bookmark quickly and go from there, yes
0331cfd0954cb631…664b160e…2022-12-02 20:25:24 <asciilifeform> crawling www is largely exercise in 'uranium from ocean water' imho
bee6afba70831bda…70831bda…2022-12-04 17:57:51 <asciilifeform> (at some later time, asciilifeform imagines , 'hipsters ruined', but not made it to see this, threw in the towel )
88a75fc122dde368…5911e31b…2022-12-06 02:22:24 <asciilifeform> phf: if yer thing doesn't eat netchains yet, may entirely explain 'hole' (missed packet, from sumbody who didn't proceed to say anyffin moar in next 10min, say, so no selfchain trigger for hole backfill)
96cb2b9e5ea01dd3…d20d03bb…2022-11-14 23:03:59 <phf> you're still essentially operating it "print line of string at x,y, draw a rectangle x,y,w,h" level
390f3c6defb0dce9…0d45f0c9…2022-11-23 16:46:40 asciilifeform simply has a rack-mounted 'double convert' ups + expanders, to which ~errything of any value is connected
1d27428dded2f5c8…954cb631…2022-12-02 19:21:36 <phf> marginalia is so bad, that when i search for something, it'll hit some totally random internet 1.0 pages, "huh, a personal website dedicated to night sky photography, don't know how that's related to paredit"
5b7d77710331cfd0…0331cfd0…2022-12-02 20:26:38 <asciilifeform> search engines to date afaik universally either a) too small to matter b) go under & forgotten promptly c) devolve to resembling google
873ff627fd7c6b43…c9df8313…2022-12-04 17:51:53 <phf> i've worked with barski on land of lisp, and i really liked his freewheeling from scratch approach "we're going to write a really shit, but good enough web server in clisp for our next lesson"
3f69056abee6afba…8cd51dc6…2022-12-04 18:08:13 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1016957 << have to agree, with much respect to current implementations, they oughta be subordinate to the spec.
92eaa8b8390f3c6d…390f3c6d…2022-11-23 16:47:50 <asciilifeform> has built-in MOVs for surge (tho would have to desolder if they were to blow. to date never happened.)
e9d30c0a1d27428d…1d27428d…2022-12-02 19:22:16 <phf> but it's opensores, potentially one could pick it up, and start crowling own set of sites, add own "wot-first" rating system etc.
639acf335b7d7771…5b7d7771…2022-12-02 20:27:31 <asciilifeform> there aint a 'sane way to run a crawling search engine' anymoar than there is a recipe for 'sane reddit'
a0068056873ff627…fd7c6b43…2022-12-04 17:52:15 <asciilifeform> there's a rather noticeable gap tho, historically, from 'what's in graphix textbook' to 'gui resembling gtk', i.e. w/out flicker, etc
41958cc43f69056a…8fb336d5…2022-12-04 18:09:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 11:23:17 phf[awt]: it's got a big of a makefile effect: you'll have a kludge that's relevant for about a month, and then it becomes legacy kludge forever
816903e504de0d29…88a75fc1…2022-12-06 02:24:49 <asciilifeform> iirc awt's 1st pestron also not ate netchains (or even selfchains)
e21b9c88b62f3a33…b62f3a33…2022-11-14 23:06:02 <asciilifeform> phf: was looking to solve moar general problem of 'canhaz drawable framebuffer and x11 i/o in statically linked ada proggy?'
5ab6d93c639acf33…f977ab0a…2022-12-02 20:37:25 <awt> This is fun to play with: https://chat.openapi.com
a51ed34041958cc4…3f69056a…2022-12-04 18:17:47 <signpost> yep, really seems like multipart oughta be separate message code, both for the immediate reason and to pour some ideological cement.
10be6d5d816903e5…04de0d29…2022-12-06 02:25:15 <phf> where does even remotely in what i said i said that i don't eat netchains?
d840228ea60c5e24…a60c5e24…2022-12-08 03:24:27 <signpost> fwiw where nietzsche falls down imo is in his soldiering alone. there is this being, it's atomic; what do we teach it so it improves itself over time?
2a0c979c9bad5216…9bad5216…2022-12-08 14:09:39 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017772 << one of the first books that made me "sad" https://www.elsevier.com/books/swarm-intelligence/eberhart/978-1-55860-595-4 because i realized that the "man in an ivory tower" is not a thing
d8d3110f9bad5216…9bad5216…2022-12-15 12:53:06 <crtdaydreams> unpx whatever you've done we've automagically peered through nat despite my new IP
73208025e21b9c88…e21b9c88…2022-11-14 23:06:23 <asciilifeform> (and yes this means 'render font 'by hand'' etc)
64e18b6ef703e133…f703e133…2022-11-23 16:51:29 <asciilifeform> ( subj fwiw. if you have moar than 1.8kW of load, would need fatter one.)
ee5a7e445ab6d93c…5ab6d93c…2022-12-02 20:38:41 awt wishes I had more time to put into indexing log search engine I was working on
6bfdd72dc84bc3c6…c84bc3c6…2022-12-04 17:53:25 asciilifeform not aiming at 'gtk-like' but moar modest b&w line graphics, but at least such that worx on arbitrary-res displays and not liquifies yer eyes with flicker
a3663a42a51ed340…a51ed340…2022-12-04 18:18:26 <signpost> I can help awt patch in this message code if helpful. seems like all that'd be needed is to send it to the standard message handler, since the IRC frontend isn't going to do anything special with multiparts
772e3ed2d840228e…d840228e…2022-12-08 03:25:22 <signpost> there are no perfectly separate individuals. the edges are messy and bleed over, which is why whatever troubles you does.
ffcefd1e2a0c979c…e6c1e379…2022-12-08 14:10:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-07 22:28:20 signpost: grows convinced that the distributed computation is the thing, or is at least more thingly than individual meat puppets.
a277dfa3d8d3110f…d8d3110f…2022-12-15 23:50:04 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-15#1018548 << grass is still useful for ground cover if nothing else it prevents erosion, it's hard to say much because the whole point is adaptation to conditions, e.g. broadcasting clover may not be enough in more arid environments, it may be necessary to plant trees to provide adequat
e16272ea73208025…2f72d391…2022-11-14 23:07:38 <phf> i'm surprised there's no tk update that supports dpi though. the whole thing is quite "modern" on mac, i thought somebody's keeping it up to date. but it sounds like the unix infra is failing in general
159e4e9364e18b6e…64e18b6e…2022-11-23 16:53:00 <asciilifeform> with expander (and reasonably-fresh cells), ~40min of time at full load, moar than enuff time to change oil in generator.
d3fde494ee5a7e44…a8ce38df…2022-12-02 21:56:02 <billymg> awt: that link causes the browser to warn about an invalid certificate and then after proceeding redirects to https://carrowholly-stables.com/
75523a266bfdd72d…6bfdd72d…2022-12-04 17:53:53 <asciilifeform> a bolix-like style would be entirely adequate for serious use imho
48c2891ca3663a42…bee6afba…2022-12-04 18:19:05 asciilifeform has 0 problem with this pov, given as nobody seemed to strongly barf from the idea of old clients missing multipart msgs until upgraded
d0e68a60b6fe3d63…22dde368…2022-12-06 02:26:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 20:56:07 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017609 << this is not the anywhere near the initial sync. for one i don't keep netchain. i start (in violation of the spec, that's otherwise ignored) each new launch of pest with sending prod, getting latest message, and then linking my nechain
3251aa68772e3ed2…772e3ed2…2022-12-08 03:26:14 <signpost> christ said love your neighbor as yourself in acknowledgement of this reality, and not to encourage you to pretend it's true.
91035ea4a277dfa3…a277dfa3…2022-12-15 23:50:04 <crtdaydreams> e sunlight, or in low-lying regions everytime it rains it may drown the whole
264c2860a277dfa3…a96c2164…2022-12-15 23:51:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-15 13:50:34 lobbes[signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-12-14#1114350 << As of now, I no longer own any land, so nothing to culture atm. Though, my next house I am pretty sold on the idea of not having a lawn at all, at least not of grass. I may just plant clover seeds and let it s
2adcce77e16272ea…73208025…2022-11-14 23:07:43 asciilifeform if understands correctly, 'xcb' is simply glue to talk to x bolix-style, via domain socket
995a855c159e4e93…efb0dce9…2022-11-23 17:41:21 <billymg> asciilifeform: neat. for fridges i don't worry about 'uptime', just not frying them
90a7972c75523a26…873ff627…2022-12-04 17:53:56 <phf> we used to run a hacker get together in dc, back in the day, when "presentation on haskell" was still a novel and exciting thing. i mean the group was called "fringe dc". god damn hipsters ruined everything.
30d08fac3251aa68…3251aa68…2022-12-08 03:27:09 signpost grows convinced that the distributed computation is the thing, or is at least more thingly than individual meat puppets.
2369b9ca264c2860…41dfcb1c…2022-12-15 23:50:16 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-14 crtdaydreams: taken to permaculture, lobbes?
481087f02adcce77…2adcce77…2022-11-14 23:08:09 <asciilifeform> phf: can't be certain that it wasn't updated (or perhaps only mac ver?) but if so not found
5879e251995a855c…995a855c…2022-11-23 17:41:54 <billymg> since everything these days seems come with a motherboard
82604ff190a7972c…75523a26…2022-12-04 17:54:17 asciilifeform was in 'hack dc' club for some yrs, went similarly
d7b81029ae352410…90a7972c…2022-12-04 18:33:09 <phf> lisp pest already runs with draft multipart, but i think i only need to change protocol definition to switch to different message type, as opposed to unicode prefix
cee3a465481087f0…481087f0…2022-11-14 23:08:28 <asciilifeform> and yes 'things falling apart', but dun expect anyone tuned in is surprised
2ac18735d7b81029…a3663a42…2022-12-04 18:35:26 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1017021 << brutal, wish her peace.
d3f68f6be95d43ca…e95d43ca…2022-12-06 02:26:25 <asciilifeform> ( given as iirc phf did not mention restarting his proggy when saw the 'hole' )
59861b3c404e4ab2…404e4ab2…2022-12-15 23:55:05 <crtdaydreams> when you get back into it would certainly like to hear more
a340a9f9cee3a465…cee3a465…2022-11-14 23:09:38 <asciilifeform> apropos, a candidate for the bmp font.
e9641febb09fed20…b09fed20…2022-11-23 18:31:40 <asciilifeform> phf: moar re new crapples : on 'm2' fanless lappy, built ffa, and this benchmark ran in 1min 41s.
c5d0c36ea7f0f147…639acf33…2022-12-03 03:18:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-02#1017247 << asciilifeform is half-convinced that 100% of the 'alt' search engines simply scrape from google and repackage the output
0ddd3a862ac18735…41958cc4…2022-12-04 18:36:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 13:38:24 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: meanwhile, in misc. old-timer blogs.
29eb125b59861b3c…59861b3c…2023-01-02 02:37:11 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-01#1020038 << lol "happy new years"
9184f27fa340a9f9…e16272ea…2022-11-14 23:10:03 <phf> after common lisp i expected most languages to have something like clx, so you can talk to x over native stream with no ffi of any kind. apparently nobody else have anything remotely similar, and in lisp world it only exists because symbolics people spent all that effort
dba7d6fee9641feb…4b91fb66…2022-11-23 18:32:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-18 12:32:30 phf[awt]: meanwhile you have x86 market working with a very modular design, that necessarily creates overhead. so the whole "m1 totally slaughters legacy intel!!1" narrative is essentially a bunch of idiots going "bauaah duuuh standard bad, ipad render new york times fast good!!"
d6337377c5d0c36e…2bb08696…2022-12-03 03:19:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-02 14:18:33 signpost: hah, yeah, ddg over here, same practically useless taste you know and crave
fc2fa2ad0ddd3a86…d7b81029…2022-12-04 18:36:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017333 << i was hacdc interim treasury for a couple of months, but back when i was there it was still somewhat active. 2004? i remember we were trying to setup a community wifi network, starting with that church
dfe2cdd525ff1a82…2369b9ca…2022-12-16 16:08:11 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-16 cgra: willing to peer up in pest, if any of billymg, jonsykkel, thimbronion, mod6, unpx want. ditto for any other pest-regular not currently on this medium
0500b81f29eb125b…ad6fee28…2023-01-02 02:38:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-01 18:41:16 bitbot: Logged on 2023-01-01 16:42:29 signpost: and in lulz of old, wrecker gets wrecked
323bfbe0dba7d6fe…e9641feb…2022-11-23 18:37:45 <asciilifeform> phf: for comparison: 2m 49s on 'threadripper' 3960X.
8e0cfa96d6337377…c5d0c36e…2022-12-03 03:20:50 <asciilifeform> unrelatedly, in continuation of this experiment : tried to read events but evidently needs moar massage;
51f352f5fc2fa2ad…0ddd3a86…2022-12-04 18:37:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-04 12:55:24 asciilifeform[5]: was in 'hack dc' club for some yrs, went similarly
34ea7efeb780e4af…b780e4af…2022-12-06 02:27:51 <asciilifeform> 1 of the reasons 1st thing asciilifeform did when rewriting spec, was to throw out the reorder mechanism -- it not only slows propagation simply to satisfy irc frontends, but creates unholy wtf semantics that will prolly never entirely behave as anyone would expect
96f05ba4dfe2cdd5…45b59b62…2022-12-16 16:20:17 <signpost> I'm considering adding some pest-specific commands to deedbot, like coughing up peering details for anyone within my l2. anyone object?
ad85e9c5ace04587…ace04587…2023-01-02 02:41:41 <crtdaydreams> dood had it stored on coinbase, whatdya expect?
640b7c8b6a11b369…6a11b369…2022-11-14 23:10:43 <asciilifeform> (iirc so that could sell that headless ivory 400 or wat was it)
1790ee26323bfbe0…323bfbe0…2022-11-23 18:38:53 <asciilifeform> and, as given in orig. article, on 'opteron' 6328 : 7m 24.751s.
24655e3c8e0cfa96…d6337377…2022-12-03 03:21:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-21 21:38:25 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-21#1016712 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/raw-x-protocol.png
c682c0ed51f352f5…fc2fa2ad…2022-12-04 18:36:58 <phf> when i came back and lived in dc last time, 2018, it was already "bunch of old dudes talking about doing a project and not having time for it". none of the people from 2004 were there anymore.
9ffa77d634ea7efe…8f16b8eb…2022-12-06 02:29:30 <phf> _i_ sent a sequence of messages A *B C D E F. message B got lost, message C triggered getdata, messages D E F went into order buffer along with C. many minutes later the message get spooled, but their order is entirely random, e.g. A D E B F C
dad66af596f05ba4…96f05ba4…2022-12-16 16:20:58 <signpost> the person would've already had to join pest through someone else, but this will at least make a node with static IP easily accessible once on
b461e48e96f05ba4…25ff1a82…2022-12-16 16:21:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: what's the win from it, tho, given as still need to pgpgram key ?
6031612bad85e9c5…10a73069…2023-01-02 02:42:38 <signpost> as I recall the guy was endlessly full of shit. there's no telling what happened, except that he's butthurt, which is funny.
2493291ead85e9c5…ad85e9c5…2023-01-02 07:54:52 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform, phf: first time compiling cadr usim.tar.gz here on x86_64 void linux kver=5.18.19_1, I'm wondering what issues you've had with compilation (besides the misname -Wall flag) it appears a multilib system is a necessity? 32bit SDL seems to be a dep, are there any ways around this or patches?
7dffcb77640b7c8b…640b7c8b…2022-11-14 23:11:17 <asciilifeform> sumbody noticed that a low-end sun has better display and costs 5x less than the console, or sumthinglikethat
0fe0cb441790ee26…1790ee26…2022-11-23 18:40:20 <asciilifeform> phf: evidently the optimizations ~not~ 'crappleware-only'. ( and this was with unadorned gnat, w/out any crapple proprietary arm compilers. )
b760be7324655e3c…8e0cfa96…2022-12-03 03:21:12 <asciilifeform> the events only fire when proggy is sighup'd.
6a57f5aec682c0ed…2ac18735…2022-12-04 18:37:01 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1017032 << good time to decide whether inbandism is banned with prejudice
7dec2f779ffa77d6…9ffa77d6…2022-12-06 02:30:28 <phf> lets say they all arrived out of order, but how did C end at the end of the spool, if it was the one that triggered getdata?
96352488dad66af5…b461e48e…2022-12-16 16:21:22 <asciilifeform> signpost: it's what addrcast/prod is for
f88d77bf6031612b…6031612b…2023-01-02 02:44:20 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-01#1020042 << figured producing a particular distribution faithfully would depend on the quality of prng output, but probably here period being way higher than number of check blocks to realistically be produced before heat death of universe is fine?
e7707ab77dffcb77…7dffcb77…2022-11-14 23:12:12 <asciilifeform> (then somebody else -- 'mac costs even less' and so 'macivory')
40a164520fe0cb44…0fe0cb44…2022-11-23 18:41:50 <asciilifeform> pity they dun sell 'm2' in a fat rackable box, where could scrape off the crappleware and use as generic comp.
50b4c397b760be73…b760be73…2022-12-03 03:21:52 <asciilifeform> prolly needs some FD settings magick (select()/poll() etc), judging by how libxcb does it
a1270f6b6a57f5ae…51f352f5…2022-12-04 18:38:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 15:21:41 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, have you given a thought to ACTION? that's something that's not address in the spec, and if you're going to drop irc specific stuff probably should be
69ddf8537dec2f77…7dec2f77…2022-12-06 02:31:24 <phf> i know that C is the one that triggered getdata, because looking at my own log that's where "getdata from awt" debug message comes up, and because there aren't any timestamp in my paste, it's not obvious that those getdata's followed C immediately
895e205c96352488…96352488…2022-12-16 16:21:56 <asciilifeform> this knob already part of pest spec in 0xfb
63815f3bf88d77bf…0500b81f…2023-01-02 02:45:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-01 19:18:56 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: signpost: any prng can shit out the desired distribution if you transform the output. ( afaik the key attributes of a prng usable for lubyism are -- long period (i.e. not absurdly short), uniformity, and speed , in that order. )
d465efd4e7707ab7…9184f27f…2022-11-14 23:12:47 <phf> that's as good an origin theory as any. i suspect that at some point genera was a kind of "emacs", had lots of support for orchestrating unix boxes. nfs, rexec,x11, etc.
9b42409040a16452…40a16452…2022-11-23 18:42:12 <asciilifeform> currently appears to be the fastest (single-core, at any rate) cpu in asciilifeform's torture chamber.
c50f0e3f50b4c397…50b4c397…2022-12-03 03:24:10 <asciilifeform> ( if look at 'xcb_wait_for_event' -- there's a rather gnarly mechanism there, with dedicated threads for read/write )
819b50f2a1270f6b…6a57f5ae…2022-12-04 18:40:06 <signpost> and if it is, subsequently whether "action" is part of a class of messages or worthy of its own code.
466e253d69ddf853…69ddf853…2022-12-06 02:33:00 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017657 << fair. the behavior of the state machine in this case is all kinds of magical
94842448895e205c…dad66af5…2022-12-16 16:23:12 <signpost> maybe less relevant for the IP reason then.
1771352c63815f3b…f88d77bf…2023-01-02 02:45:32 signpost cribbed some guy's impl of the alias method for the lisp encoder; I expect numpy does something similar under the hood for biased selection
34ca34304df4bf49…4df4bf49…2023-01-02 16:06:48 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-02#1020120 << i haven't compiled brad's code in forever, the bulk of CADR work is happening here https://tumbleweed.nu/lm-3/
fc436c7b4df4bf49…4df4bf49…2023-01-02 19:51:31 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-02#1020059 << downloaded and ran http://0x0.st/oR9n.png but cursor interaction is completely borked, teleports and changes size any attempt to interact w/ RMB works but the teleporting bugs it out and closes the window
587ed8ccd465efd4…e7707ab7…2022-11-14 23:13:23 <asciilifeform> considering that most users had fleet of unix boxen along with bolix -- made sense
31cd36539b424090…9b424090…2022-11-23 18:42:37 asciilifeform was quite skeptical, and convinced 'benchmarks -- lies' etc. but troo phakt.
31acf30ec50f0e3f…c50f0e3f…2022-12-03 03:25:05 <asciilifeform> ( for ref -- a helloworld similar to the item being sought, under libxcb. )
a7fb54a2819b50f2…819b50f2…2022-12-04 18:41:16 <signpost> could be that both ACTION and MULTIPART-MESSAGE ought to be subtypes of MESSAGE in some manner, given both could be called something like rendering hints.
317da2fc466e253d…d0e68a60…2022-12-06 02:34:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 21:29:00 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: 1 of the reasons 1st thing asciilifeform did when rewriting spec, was to throw out the reorder mechanism -- it not only slows propagation simply to satisfy irc frontends, but creates unholy wtf semantics that will prolly never entirely behave as anyone would expec
90dd5ff894842448…94842448…2022-12-16 16:23:42 <signpost> deedbot already knows how to gpg-gram so it'd be easy to have it provide peering info itself to those close enough in wot
b85dc74e34ca3430…bcf14a11…2023-01-02 16:06:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 02:54:57 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, phf: first time compiling cadr usim.tar.gz here on x86_64 void linux kver=5.18.19_1, I'm wondering what issues you've had with compilation (besides the misname -Wall flag) it appears a multilib system is a necessity? 32bit SDL seems to be a dep, are
ecbb33f6fc436c7b…63815f3b…2023-01-02 19:52:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 11:46:44 phf[deedbot|awt]: but there should be no reason for the tumbleweed code not to compile on usim, except for some gnuism here and there
a27e5be2fc436c7b…fc436c7b…2023-01-02 19:55:17 <crtdaydreams> nvm, still usable, it only happens when moving cursor at speeds, but as soon as movement slows down below an arbitrary threshold no artifacting
b5e10378587ed8cc…587ed8cc…2022-11-14 23:14:27 asciilifeform also suspects that bolix brass realized (if too late) that it dun actually make economic sense to manufacture own glass tubes (and even -- lol -- laser printers !) if could be avoided.
cf672fbd31cd3653…31cd3653…2022-11-23 18:43:24 <asciilifeform> notbad for a box that pulls ~20 watt (less when lcd off..)
7ed8c98531acf30e…31acf30e…2022-12-03 03:25:47 asciilifeform earlier, set bozobit on libxcb proper, as it apparently will not statically link anywhere
28dc54fea7fb54a2…a7fb54a2…2022-12-04 18:42:07 <signpost> obviously in one direction you expend message codes, and the other, message space by adding sub-classifiers
3349eff490dd5ff8…90dd5ff8…2022-12-16 16:24:23 <signpost> another option is I make a lever to request direct peering and the caller supplies the peering info
1a55834da27e5be2…a27e5be2…2023-01-02 20:00:11 <crtdaydreams> lol ok, prolly direct result of running on a non-multilib system but it's well and truly broken
6a2b8793b5e10378…d465efd4…2022-11-14 23:18:39 <phf> i suspect it was attempts at novel delivery strategies, rather than march to grave. for example the order of events is backwards, macivory was the first ivory machine, then xl, then sun extension board, then the headless nxp1000
cfd8afeccf672fbd…cf672fbd…2022-11-23 18:44:33 <asciilifeform> and, note, this was w/out asm inlines.
cf969f4b7ed8c985…7ed8c985…2022-12-03 03:28:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-02#1017264 << demands a login, meh
79b12be428dc54fe…28dc54fe…2022-12-04 18:42:23 <signpost> AWAY status could be another of these sub-types of message
32cd51971a55834d…bdb07506…2023-01-02 20:39:34 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-02#1020118 << << that's perfectly valid result in base-8
f6ff010acfd8afec…1b9f4685…2022-11-23 18:44:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-24 asciilifeform: for 'magic instrs' yer stuck with 'intrinsics' (of which gnat gives next to nuffin) and then of course asmism
5b3d63fecf969f4b…24655e3c…2022-12-03 03:29:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-02 18:12:02 awt: lol oops: https://chat.openai.com/chat
a6365bd979b12be4…c682c0ed…2022-12-04 18:44:42 <phf> action is cute, because it's one of those atavisms, comes from mud culture, and is otherwise non-existent in all the modern™ protocols. possibly because reflective narration in humans is a higher function
11c8d304e9b9e841…544b5107…2022-12-06 18:31:14 <signpost> billymg: I recently told my buddy that works at an exchange that they've been running discounts for long enough
cacf6d7c0237122a…0237122a…2022-12-16 16:24:55 <signpost> really just opening the question of what the proper relationship of bots to humans is in pestnet.
4d1f4c9532cd5197…ecbb33f6…2023-01-02 20:40:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 15:01:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: lol ok, prolly direct result of running on a non-multilib system but it's well and truly broken
df72cd35ed731bfa…ed731bfa…2022-11-14 23:19:34 <asciilifeform> iirc they also had a thrust to address 'customers complain that deployment of $soft costs same as $devstation' so 'let's make cheaper deploybox'
1233669af6ff010a…cfd8afec…2022-11-23 18:46:22 asciilifeform expected the crapple to be warm enuff 'to fry egg' , at least, after this -- but nope.
b5ea46915b3d63fe…cf969f4b…2022-12-03 03:32:50 <asciilifeform> and again re: x11 experiment: comparative straces.
11800da8cacf6d7c…895e205c…2022-12-16 16:25:13 <asciilifeform> signpost: deedbot dispensing peerings (and generate own keys, etc) for itself to folx in l2 would be a++ imho
696d1a651233669a…1233669a…2022-11-23 18:49:55 asciilifeform ftr not found any anti-constanttime booby on 'm2'.
057025c2c1827911…a6365bd9…2022-12-04 18:46:24 <phf> what does exist in modern protocols thouhg, are various content types. like i've only worked with telegram, but it has location message, various kinds of document messages, a sticker pack message, etc.
7edd668570f311f7…70f311f7…2022-12-06 18:39:49 <billymg> not sure where others have their lines drawn but the same line i originally drew back in ~june is at $16960 now
1b2ddba311800da8…11800da8…2022-12-16 16:25:32 <asciilifeform> supposing signpost has the cycles to automate
4b11618ae21d82e6…e21d82e6…2023-01-02 20:47:49 <crtdaydreams> unlike in the manual though the card machines initial radix is 8
2cfa422e2674ec2a…2674ec2a…2022-11-14 23:20:05 asciilifeform for somereason thought that 'xl' was 1st
64001bc2696d1a65…696d1a65…2022-11-23 18:51:36 <asciilifeform> the adhoc heathen gnat asciilifeform used on that box. (gnat in 'macports' appears to be 100% broken.)
83cab98dab9c3589…ab9c3589…2022-12-03 17:04:16 <asciilifeform> this btw not accurate. 'expose' event does print.
9f1710cf057025c2…c1827911…2022-12-04 18:47:16 <signpost> yeah, one I eagerly anticipate is DHT-LINK-HASH
7f863bd47edd6685…317da2fc…2022-12-06 18:35:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-10 11:20:49 billymg: according to my chart lines it needs to go above $18.6k and stay there to be out of the woods
5ebde9872cfa422e…6a2b8793…2022-11-14 23:23:33 <phf> reading some old release blurb looks like macivory just happened to be ready first, even though xl400 was being developed at the same time, but took longer
e7baf0f964001bc2…64001bc2…2022-11-23 18:57:09 asciilifeform to be fair not tried erry possible arm64; previously, only rk3328 (which goes at ~half the speed of opteron 6328, which still aintbad considering that it runs under <5W)
77912ebb83cab98d…5b3d63fe…2022-12-03 17:05:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-02 22:22:18 asciilifeform[6]: the events only fire when proggy is sighup'd.
97ad6b2d7f863bd4…7edd6685…2022-12-06 18:40:54 <billymg> amazing how much the chart respects this line, it could've been drawn back at the beginning of march
3d99c6ea7eca1ed7…7eca1ed7…2022-12-16 16:26:01 <signpost> (supposedly!) past signpost made it pretty damn easy to introduce new commands, so lessee
4bb6b01937f0aaf5…37f0aaf5…2023-01-02 20:50:07 <crtdaydreams> right, which is rather confusing because they're set to 10 but everythings in the octal system so it's 8 but in octal so "10"
fe84b0e977912ebb…83cab98d…2022-12-03 17:05:12 <asciilifeform> the others, for reason asciilifeform not yet knows, do not.
a0277136dfcc3a8f…057025c2…2022-12-04 18:47:39 <phf> they don't do any kind of type hierarchy though, it's message types live all equally at the high level. so a document message might have a text comment on it and regular message also has text on it, but both texts are not considered to be same attribute
a19b122a97ad6b2d…97ad6b2d…2022-12-06 18:42:34 <billymg> which i guess could be seen as bad, if it means those that 'paint the chart' are still in full control
e635c3483d99c6ea…3d99c6ea…2022-12-16 16:26:56 <signpost> another question, how private do we consider the AT to be, if at all?
f767b9424bb6b019…4bb6b019…2023-01-02 20:51:12 <crtdaydreams> I'm not quite sure what ASH does how and why
830d67c778c37f2c…5ebde987…2022-11-14 23:23:48 <phf> “The machine with 1Mb Mac II, the board and Genera, 8Mb of NuBus memory, the Apple mouse and extended keyboard, a 12 mono screen and 300Mb SCSI disk is $21,900, with limited ships in early October. The board with 8Mb and software for existing Mac IIs will be $10,900 from next March.”
90fd7359781ea904…781ea904…2022-11-23 19:13:53 <asciilifeform> ftr, how to run: 1) throw out the flags (e.g. '-static') that dunwork on crapple gnat; 2) in limits.ads, up the max tape from 1MB to 12MB 3) up the stack to max crapple permits: ulimit -s 65520 3) :
e51327fffe84b0e9…fe84b0e9…2022-12-03 17:10:24 <asciilifeform> ... actually, bizarrely, they do, if window is hidden and then re-exposed. lol
578561a6a19b122a…11c8d304…2022-12-06 18:38:33 <signpost> curious where we'd be if the demand on FTX had flowed into actual BTC
d72e7a9ee635c348…e635c348…2022-12-16 16:27:32 <signpost> was considering whether to make a !!at command for deedbot which pastes current table.
9ec6e60b830d67c7…830d67c7…2022-11-14 23:24:09 <phf> “ The MacIvory adds a Symbolics board containing the Ivory symbolic processor and NuBus interface, and is the first product based on the Ivory microprocessor, as well as the first Symbolics product based on a non-proprietary machine.”
5b7f9c1590fd7359…90fd7359…2022-11-23 19:13:58 <asciilifeform> time cat tapes/10k_shots_1024bit_ffa_slid_rnd.tape | ./ffacalc/bin/peh 1024 32 10660000 0
3cbdb8306e875238…dfcc3a8f…2022-12-04 20:35:51 <signpost> that chained messages are planned imho relieves pressure on conserving message payload space. I'd probably recommend reserving a few bytes for a message subtype which precedes the payload. will continue to think about it.
a1a94f60d72e7a9e…1b2ddba3…2022-12-16 16:28:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: erry operator answers for self re 'is my ip seekrit'
c33aac376fc569bc…6fc569bc…2023-01-02 20:54:26 <crtdaydreams> i recall fondly the quake 3 fast inverse square root function
719ea07d9ec6e60b…78c37f2c…2022-11-14 23:25:36 <asciilifeform> 1986 mercedes 300, for comparison, ~35k (1986 $)
30fb0d8f50a7c441…77912ebb…2022-12-03 17:12:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-22 20:12:12 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, my point is that xorg is designed for "linux on desktop", assumes well behaved clients in the form of essentially gtk apps. this is not how things used to be done. i've learned x programing with a sgi o2 machine that they sold at terrapin trader, and sgi wrote their ow
054b64213cbdb830…3cbdb830…2022-12-04 20:40:46 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017361 << possibly subtype comes with length of subfield, and one can put however many in there.
4cca69310e67586f…0e67586f…2022-12-06 18:39:21 signpost has no price prediction, just an intent to hold across many more halvings
97adeb77a1a94f60…a1a94f60…2022-12-16 16:29:08 <asciilifeform> currently we paste'em regularly, but per discussion in spec, 'only peers have any biz knowing existence/ip of station' in general
4d3f01f3c33aac37…b77dfd60…2023-01-02 20:57:38 <cgra> awt: any idea why blatta's logging.basicConfig() don't seem to have any effect on my desk? python 2.7.12. it doesn't seem to work in a manual python shell test either
e39b5cdd54e199e6…54e199e6…2022-11-23 19:15:55 <asciilifeform> ( why? cuz ch14 was before tape had to live in memory whole )
7c2bf35a30fb0d8f…05d8fe1c…2022-12-03 17:11:19 <signpost> kinda sounds like a buffer getting flushed by the re-expose
ad531887054b6421…a1270f6b…2022-12-04 20:41:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-04 13:48:46 phf[awt]: they don't do any kind of type hierarchy though, it's message types live all equally at the high level. so a document message might have a text comment on it and regular message also has text on it, but both texts are not considered to be same attribute
52be888e97adeb77…97adeb77…2022-12-16 16:31:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho third parties (incl. l2+) have no biz knowing'em by default, and very little is gained by displaying'em
5178a9d7c42fa332…1a3f481f…2023-01-02 22:58:11 <awt> cgra: can you describe the behavior you're expecting?
f83b13f2e39b5cdd…e39b5cdd…2022-11-23 22:58:44 asciilifeform thinking about it, the above aint a 'universal' benchmark at all, as the calculation very much fits in cache (on all 3 boxes.) but still interesting.
254f08c87c2bf35a…1247f4d8…2022-12-03 18:01:21 <asciilifeform> interestingly, fflush(state->socket_fd) segfaults.
86e3d768ad531887…054b6421…2022-12-04 20:40:59 <signpost> then message with a link to boobs can still say "boobs" to clients that can't boobinate.
9f54a75f5178a9d7…4d3f01f3…2023-01-02 23:15:04 <cgra> awt: i'd expect the log level to change, and logging format to change, both according to the logging.basicConfig() input (of the one and only call). but it's stuck into defaults, level=ERROR for example
5426c95c2788a0f6…2788a0f6…2023-01-09 10:58:43 <crtdaydreams> and happy new year (I'm a bit late lol)
6f7df1b2f83b13f2…f83b13f2…2022-11-23 22:59:13 <asciilifeform> (i.e. fact that crapple's thing has ~1cm memory bus, not relevant here)
29ff8ce4254f08c8…254f08c8…2022-12-03 18:02:24 asciilifeform suspects an oddball interaction b/w this thing and 'ratpoison' wm. the events only start to roll when re-exposed somewhere ~other~ than the wm frame where window originally appears
436ec69386e3d768…86e3d768…2022-12-04 20:47:58 <signpost> the 6byte "mark+Z" is probably enough space to say both length and subtype.
2fce857a16a0f3dd…36d912f7…2022-12-06 18:40:44 <signpost> even that was just a dumb "eh buy under my cost basis" thing
4ac45f622859dc6e…2859dc6e…2022-12-16 16:34:06 <asciilifeform> deedbot eating a pgpgram (from someone with key already on file) , signed, with 'please peer me, key=...., at=....' is 1 thing; but arbitrarily sharing ip of erry peer with erry peer -- why ?
28be5d4f9f54a75f…9f54a75f…2023-01-02 23:27:48 <cgra> awt: just found out that even a call like logging.debug() prior to the logging.basicConfig() call will make any further basicConfig() calls no-op
b2dc6e306f7df1b2…6f7df1b2…2022-11-23 23:00:32 asciilifeform not has the arm 'neon' phf mentioned ; may be interesting to try on it
d6b87186436ec693…436ec693…2022-12-04 20:48:30 <signpost> dunno even needs that much, probably can shave ~2
f968c59f2fce857a…16a0f3dd…2022-12-06 18:46:32 billymg remembers his stacking days "i bought the dip!" "oh look, another dip!"
c3ef2c474ac45f62…4ac45f62…2022-12-16 16:40:00 asciilifeform favours 'consenting adults' pov where if bot clearly labeled 'i'ma share errything with certain folx who aint your peers when you peer with me' entirely ok; but expects that many wouldn't want to peer with such bot, esp. since not clear what is gained
f14b7acb28be5d4f…28be5d4f…2023-01-02 23:30:59 <cgra> that threw me off when trying a stand-alone test. but now it's sorted
8e8210fcd3353adb…d3353adb…2023-01-12 17:28:05 <crtdaydreams> woke up to go spraying awfully early (currently 0314 in oz) and ffs wind
34d3a28eb2dc6e30…5879e251…2022-11-24 13:59:00 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-23#1016798 << i have the black one with 24gb of ram. it's a great machine, can actually use on your lap without burning your legs
d4fc590cf968c59f…f968c59f…2022-12-06 18:47:27 <billymg> now just in 'never sell' mode (only spending small quantities)
2aa050e2c3ef2c47…c3ef2c47…2022-12-16 16:44:20 <asciilifeform> the 'i exchanged key with $operator, and he's on the pestnet but his ip changed and nao link broken' scenario is (or oughta be) 100% handled by addrcast/prod.
efa4d2dbf14b7acb…c3f18c94…2023-01-04 16:02:11 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-04#1020142 << Happy NY billymg, good to see you had safe travelz.
1e7bf1a7997d3dc6…7db5dd21…2023-01-09 18:50:47 <awt> Fun Costa Rican catch-22: You can only drive on your foreign license for 90 days AND You can't apply for a Costa Rican license unless you've been in country for 91 days.
62ed21e734d3a28e…dba7d6fe…2022-11-24 13:54:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 13:32:55 asciilifeform[5]: phf: moar re new crapples : on 'm2' fanless lappy, built ffa, and this benchmark ran in 1min 41s.
8f48b5414423077f…4423077f…2022-12-04 20:56:04 <signpost> and as phf implies, a client can then filter by "all hyperlinks", "all with $term in body text", etc., if what's conceptually same is denoted the same across subtypes.
5389c6442aa050e2…2aa050e2…2022-12-16 16:45:19 <asciilifeform> ( 'addrcast' is functionally a means for sending an arbitrary msg (currently constrained to 'at' info) to a specific key )
1a58b116d9219a67…d9219a67…2023-01-04 14:04:06 <billymg> arrived back in cr monday evening, without any travel issues
68a158d0efa4d2db…4d1f4c95…2023-01-04 16:03:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-04 08:58:38 billymg: morning and happy new year all
64919babe5120968…1ca9e510…2023-01-12 17:31:54 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: slow. and may not update at all until get alpha version of 'pestilence' ( asciilifeform's gui pestron ) out; some of the spec details imho gotta be worked empirically.
434f7fe962ed21e7…b2dc6e30…2022-11-24 15:38:17 <asciilifeform> billymg: so happens is same box asciilifeform bought (24G ram , 1TB disk)
f52d04505389c644…5389c644…2022-12-16 16:46:24 <asciilifeform> presumption is that if you give someone a peering key, your station can tell him its reachable addr/port, and vice-versa, so long as you're on same net.
392297511a58b116…1a58b116…2023-01-04 14:05:11 <billymg> signpost: was a pleasure meeting in person, looking forward to a cr meetup if the opportunity arises
33e0b6e764919bab…64919bab…2023-01-12 17:32:31 asciilifeform doesn't expect the essentials of 0xfa to change much
5020bb7e07600b48…07600b48…2023-01-12 17:36:45 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform still outstanding questions of "bob v Bob" which proving to be big ugh (assuming this is what you were referencing as to requiring `emprical' solution
fa70d8a8434f7fe9…434f7fe9…2022-11-24 15:39:03 <asciilifeform> complete with the black paint (that possibly flakes off), is what they had in stock lol
06096927f52d0450…f52d0450…2022-12-16 16:47:01 <asciilifeform> (but folx whom you did ~not~ give key, have no biz knowing about yer station at all.)
f987437d33e0b6e7…33e0b6e7…2023-01-12 17:33:20 asciilifeform unlikely to have the cycles to move quickly on this; ran outta winter holiday and back to commercial worx
50a97bd45020bb7e…5020bb7e…2023-01-12 17:37:28 <crtdaydreams> too much time in emacs, need parens matching soft for weechat :)
f4ee33992212bb6c…ae352410…2022-12-04 23:36:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017350 << related q -- do we want htmlism in text? (when gui client, prolly will be tempting)
c1536860479d7b17…d4fc590c…2022-12-06 18:49:48 <billymg> all good over here, just doing some diy projects around the farm, which seem to be endless
cc22d52306096927…06096927…2022-12-16 16:47:12 asciilifeform risks belabouring the point, but imho not unimportant.
80235da391437a8f…ee9d0c59…2023-01-04 16:47:04 <awt> lol seems like we just got a lost vwap response.
cfbc40b15c89880f…1e3bf300…2023-01-09 18:51:48 <signpost> by day 91 they expect you to have a pack of bitches driving you around, or consider you failed.
da7e1aa150a97bd4…f987437d…2023-01-12 18:42:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: nah, that one's imho well-settled q
ae7c15f850a97bd4…50a97bd4…2023-01-13 20:53:06 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-12#1020311 << the chicken/egg problem of sane computing. "what comes first? sane iron & sane os or sane libs and programs?"
7d54bcd47c5c4511…7c5c4511…2022-11-24 16:18:21 <billymg> like they did with the m1 they'll eventually have the 'max' and 'ultra' (moar cores) versions out soon
09cf3f90f4ee3399…ad531887…2022-12-04 23:37:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-04 13:38:08 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1017032 << good time to decide whether inbandism is banned with prejudice
91519fc8c1536860…c1536860…2022-12-06 18:50:53 <billymg> but it's also nice to be doing work away from the computer
3b03c0e680235da3…f14b7acb…2023-01-04 17:33:38 <cgra> lobbes: comment in your blog queue. also afaik i only clicked once, but blog shows as if i'd submitted it twice
8f841677cfbc40b1…f6283ecb…2023-01-09 18:52:17 <awt> signpost: yeah well my bitch's visa expires soon
3704ac02ae7c15f8…b7cbf728…2023-01-13 20:54:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-12 13:59:37 asciilifeform[5]: ~all of this, again, quite orthogonal to protocol spec, but gotta be answered before can bake usable gui pestron.
7a2fec9bae7c15f8…ae7c15f8…2023-01-13 20:56:15 <crtdaydreams> that latter of above which may or may not be usable on the former. i.e. potentially sisyphean effort
c5a7e95a09cf3f90…f4ee3399…2022-12-04 23:37:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017349 << asciilifeform was last there in '09 and was already 'old men talking' then
2c0a611d91519fc8…91519fc8…2022-12-06 18:57:19 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-06#1017670 << err, 'paint the tape*', obviously
4099517f1ce9b2fa…1ce9b2fa…2022-12-16 16:56:33 <signpost> makes sense to me, no need for an !!at command except for bot-operator
8701d4cf6614fcd5…c042cb9d…2023-01-12 18:45:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-08 16:08:56 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: would seem that case-insensitive treatment of handles would win 0
dccd44447a2fec9b…7a2fec9b…2023-01-14 08:58:29 <crtdaydreams> jonsykkel: I really like what you've done with the lisp bindings on greasynet, does the whole proggy work as advertised on the box or are there still some crinkles that need ironing out? (haven't got around to comprehending whole proggy asof yet)
f663ccbf6d9c1b73…fa70d8a8…2022-11-24 16:41:33 <asciilifeform> billymg: moar cores, eat moar battery, tho
0461fda0c5a7e95a…09cf3f90…2022-12-04 23:38:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-04 13:38:07 phf[awt]: when i came back and lived in dc last time, 2018, it was already "bunch of old dudes talking about doing a project and not having time for it". none of the people from 2004 were there anymore.
021ded2c2c0a611d…7f863bd4…2022-12-06 18:52:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-06 13:38:03 billymg: which i guess could be seen as bad, if it means those that 'paint the chart' are still in full control
36513b5e591815a1…93dfa24a…2023-01-04 18:00:51 <lobbes> cgra: comment approved. Re: the double-comment, this is a bug on my blog's end. The php that displays the comments is borked; I need to dig into it
52f0aabbd520364f…5c89880f…2023-01-09 18:52:47 <asciilifeform> seems par for the course in bananistans -- yer expected to 'follow 11th commandment' & pay bakshish if stopped by police
5edb7f708701d4cf…6614fcd5…2023-01-12 18:46:44 <asciilifeform> there are annoying details that so far ~not discussed, in re gui client (e.g. precisely in what order to display msgs -- e.g. if sorting by netchain, rather than time, how to display 'threads' ? and then need 'read/unread' mark? if so, how to handle? etc)
57016b55dccd4444…dccd4444…2023-01-14 09:10:48 <crtdaydreams> copy+paste natpene from smalpest not possible? l2+ routing sounds like excellent feature
dc2b1828f663ccbf…f663ccbf…2022-11-24 16:41:46 <asciilifeform> so prolly not for the micro fanless lappy. but whoknows.
ba25c9890461fda0…fb93a147…2022-12-04 23:40:37 <signpost> asciilifeform: that question points out that multipart is probably an orthogonal concern to message subtype.
12dc662c88123241…bf5fdffe…2022-12-16 16:59:06 <lobbes> ye, the general philosophy of 'nothing to the stranger' is a boon imo. Beyond just the spec, upholding it in a 'cultural' way I think has merits as well, from what I can gather at least
0226db305edb7f70…5edb7f70…2023-01-12 18:49:48 <asciilifeform> ( and other details -- how to visually mark msgs with null self/net chain ? how to display chain linkages which aint to immed. preceding msg ? )
b590f5c957016b55…57016b55…2023-01-14 09:11:40 <crtdaydreams> would l2+ routing ideally look the same as pest propagation?
7499621ddc2b1828…6d9c1b73…2022-11-24 16:47:41 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, meant for the larger laptops and even desktops
9822327aba25c989…ba25c989…2022-12-04 23:41:08 <signpost> i.e. subtype of text/html, m of n. subtype of pr0n, m-of-n
94536890468321d1…2c0a611d…2022-12-06 19:05:06 <billymg> bet it's perfect crisp weather for that right now in austin, enjoy
2014661612dc662c…88123241…2022-12-16 16:59:44 <signpost> sure, was discussing who constitutes stranger to a bot.
cc2030534aee4e1b…591815a1…2023-01-05 00:06:03 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-02#1020099 << phf's trick msg (timestamp=1671431403, hash=42dad8e760caaa695b05104b8472e648c0f59b71e534295aee642e3644e6cf90) with newlines in the handle threw the line order off in my tk window. :~}
2ecda807fcbc252d…fcbc252d…2023-01-09 18:53:44 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. if you actually insist on having 'all paperwork in order' you'll pay over9000 )
48fc14690226db30…0226db30…2023-01-12 18:50:21 <asciilifeform> most of this arguably not belongs in spec, but at same time has to be answered concretely to bake actual client
ab348a5947b634e0…34caeb68…2023-01-13 21:58:34 <busybot> Current BTC price in Response: $ErrorMessage: $cccagg_or_exchange market does not exist for this coin pair (BTC-EGGS)HasWarning: $falseType: $1RateLimit: $Data: $Cooldown: $0
88f215197499621d…dc2b1828…2022-11-24 16:42:41 <asciilifeform> iirc they already sell a 2-cpu desktop variant
3554f91d9822327a…c5a7e95a…2022-12-04 23:41:28 <asciilifeform> iirc heathen chats often do photos etc. as mime-tagged text
36e8c76b94536890…94536890…2022-12-06 22:39:40 <phf> oh man i'm rereading 2016 -2017 logs, and they are just beautiful. such information, such infrastructure. the good old days.
6dd67a3b20146616…20146616…2022-12-16 16:59:59 <signpost> least-required info is a fine principle tho
e7258716cc203053…68a158d0…2023-01-05 00:07:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-02 13:25:32 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: awt: seems like it's still a mess, don't see stuff in correct order yet on my window, for one. plus whatever else funny going on underneath, judging by the current pestnet events
5d521c7a2ecda807…2ecda807…2023-01-09 18:54:13 <asciilifeform> a sort of 'fool tax' on reich escapees
2f7adb7648fc1469…48fc1469…2023-01-12 18:51:38 <asciilifeform> ... on top of this, there are annoyances of the gui lib to work around.
b02e23dea9e823cd…57c94b42…2023-01-14 16:24:39 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-13#1020332 << i was remided of them in a recent visit to finnish game museum.
1bddfe7c3554f91d…3554f91d…2022-12-04 23:41:37 asciilifeform would rather not import that shitstack if can avoid tho
e23120186dd67a3b…cc22d523…2022-12-16 17:02:15 <phf> i think we should give keys to a relay station to anyone registered in wot
e2fb960ce7258716…7c7bfe3c…2023-01-05 00:07:39 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-04#1020144 << yeah, was great to catch up in person. will give you a shout any time I'm in CR.
55925e845d521c7a…8f841677…2023-01-09 18:54:31 <awt> asciilifeform: I was in fact already stopped a few days after the limit. For some reason they let me off and gave me a fist bump.
b7cbf7282f7adb76…8701d4cf…2023-01-12 18:52:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 23:04:17 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: meanwhile, lulzily, found that the wx widget most suited to displaying log lines is atrociously slow on gtk/linux (blazing fast on crapple, for all the good that does asciilifeform) so will have
8baab92fb02e23de…3704ac02…2023-01-14 16:25:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-13 19:44:25 jonsykkel: thanks to my contacts in finland ive been aware of åkesoft for some time though and highly respect their work
97e2a44118d5840c…7499621d…2022-11-24 16:48:16 <billymg> possibly this one? https://www.apple.com/mac-studio/specs/
d9352cd11bddfe7c…1bddfe7c…2022-12-04 23:42:30 <asciilifeform> m-of-n per asciilifeform's picture oughta be for text strictly. (for fat binaries, oughta use signpost's lubytronic encoding)
68e6fd351aa3ce72…36e8c76b…2022-12-07 00:42:20 <phf> asciilifeform, i was looking "sexp from:phf" search results, and just picked up random day http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579309. it's got everything!
55fc74aae2312018…6dd67a3b…2022-12-16 17:03:03 <signpost> phf: registered at all? I was thinking some manner of "good standing" bar. or at least something with which to antispam.
ef4eb717e2fb960c…e7258716…2023-01-05 00:08:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-04 09:00:27 billymg: signpost: was a pleasure meeting in person, looking forward to a cr meetup if the opportunity arises
bf4141f855925e84…5d521c7a…2023-01-09 18:55:13 asciilifeform recalls his fool's errand of trying to get a 'legit' bank acct in ro
7d2cbea3b7cbf728…2f7adb76…2023-01-12 18:53:50 asciilifeform for instance, found that the knob for predicting pixel region occupied by $text dun actually work reliably with var-width fonts.
5c4ea0e08baab92f…b02e23de…2023-01-14 16:25:00 <cgra> (now also found a short desc of them in english, just gotta search for 'åkesoft')
7bd2226cd9352cd1…d9352cd1…2022-12-04 23:42:50 <asciilifeform> m-of-n is so to be compat with broadcast
fb8abad968e6fd35…68e6fd35…2022-12-07 00:44:30 <phf> … quotes from vera inber and nekrasov, banking world discussions, technical conversations, newbs, ratings, building projects, quotes from things
605eeeaaef4eb717…e2fb960c…2023-01-05 00:07:45 <signpost> also lets try to get our peering fixed sometime.
20d8103dbf4141f8…b0c16a64…2023-01-09 18:55:25 <signpost> ticos are pretty cool. awt are you making a permanent relocation down there?
c9f3a0147d2cbea3…7d2cbea3…2023-01-12 18:55:13 <asciilifeform> ... nor is it possible in practice to use the platform-native text field with wrapping, links, etc and so has to be laboriously reimplemented 'by hand'
fb1abfeefb8abad9…fb8abad9…2022-12-07 00:46:38 <phf> like some kind of futuristic "cantina" scene. "so i told her, pay up, or i'll gut ya" "ibners, fresh raw ibners, 20 shatoshis" "and the WIFE was actually THE UNCLE *hearty laughter*" "check my new nakomo cyberdeck, man, it's flowing"
07625aec3395b0e0…3395b0e0…2022-12-16 17:03:46 <phf> yeah, but what kind of spam, you have to generate a pgp key, !!register, then !!peer or whatever
1e3bf300605eeeaa…605eeeaa…2023-01-05 00:10:50 <signpost> any of you other gents are always welcome to say hello if you're in austin too.
0b5addef052e6929…55925e84…2023-01-09 19:00:35 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-09#1020223 << it was a funny joke I loled
2e50aaf6c9f3a014…c9f3a014…2023-01-12 18:55:33 <asciilifeform> ( native one, when you have 100+ of'em on the window -- dog-slow )
7346533e45e7be64…45e7be64…2022-12-04 23:44:10 <signpost> re: html ick, but also something will grow there "organically" if not defined, I wager.
5c1ebdcffb1abfee…fb1abfee…2022-12-07 01:14:04 <phf> asciilifeform, which reminded me, you ever made an archive of http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/?
72dee8af07625aec…07625aec…2022-12-16 17:04:24 <phf> and if it's about bozos, then you can e.g. add !!unpeer as a public command
a5f199a91e3bf300…cc203053…2023-01-05 13:30:30 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-04#1020156 << clarifying just in case: blatta as is didn't have an acute logging problem in my python 2.7 case. i ran into the logging.basicConfig() no-op issue, because i had moved the "Couldn't use mcrypt" nags to a less spammy spot: next to the "import mcrypt" statements. now i had a
b32db7590b5addef…c205c0cc…2023-01-09 19:01:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 13:54:02 signpost: just making jokes over here.
450cd1a62e50aaf6…2e50aaf6…2023-01-12 18:56:00 <asciilifeform> ditto dog-slow if you use e.g. 1 of'em and update via 'inserts'
1ccdb62c74d10043…74d10043…2023-01-13 22:04:02 <awt> I paid $100 for a wagyu ribeye though. Was shocked.
82e88e2568a61530…fc486ff9…2022-11-24 16:43:46 asciilifeform would even buy it and try e.g. bsd on it, if the thing ate standard ssd
d2b822e17346533e…7346533e…2022-12-04 23:45:01 <signpost> could choose to be fascistic about text-only plus link-references to DHT items, and how they're displayed is left to the client to decide
9822de4b5c1ebdcf…5c1ebdcf…2022-12-07 01:17:22 <phf> this thread from the end of the page is neat, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579465
02e13df3a5f199a9…a5f199a9…2023-01-05 13:30:30 <cgra> logging.warn() call happen before the basicConfig() call in the main blatta file, because an import inside an import, causing the annoying side effect.
88204d96a5f199a9…ef4eb717…2023-01-05 13:31:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-04 13:48:58 awt: cgra: I'll look into the logging issue.
78248233b32db759…0b5addef…2023-01-09 19:02:10 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-09#1020230 << I wouldn't say permanant but certainly indefinite and likely at least a year so I can take advantage of the foreign earned income exclusion while while I have a contract.
0f810dd2450cd1a6…450cd1a6…2023-01-12 18:57:33 <asciilifeform> annoyingly x9000 -- impossible to 'smooth scroll' the lines, the fast scroller that allows arbitrary array of lines rather than storing all text in memory can only scroll 1 full field up/down at minimum.
010a22bb1ccdb62c…36513b5e…2023-01-13 22:52:35 <lobbes> jonsykkel: I dig your www. ant piece was great; pipes game idem
281ba8479a3058ba…9a3058ba…2023-01-14 09:23:14 <crtdaydreams> prolly need to be peered to use that cmd :/
47d2aca082e88e25…82e88e25…2022-11-24 16:44:27 <asciilifeform> (as it is, reportedly has proprietary disk, socketed but boobytrapped to work only with given machine, i.e. not replaceable)
64d4dffc82e88e25…68a61530…2022-11-24 16:50:03 <billymg> supposedly even their configurable-to-cost-of-new-BMW mac pro will switch over to the M2 next year (currently still intel xeon)
c215b1c3d2b822e1…d2b822e1…2022-12-04 23:45:26 <signpost> that'd at least be a place to start that doesn't haul in chromium
f2b169a29822de4b…9822de4b…2022-12-07 01:20:52 <phf> i guess because mp was one of the frequent log re-readers, the idea of "archive a link at the time it's posted" in retrospect makes a lot of sense. alas
8007a7c6b8c01415…55fc74aa…2022-12-16 17:04:59 <signpost> yeah, just thinking there needs to be a way to silence morons, when it comes to that
52cf7ed202e13df3…4aee4e1b…2023-01-05 13:50:34 <awt> cgra: ah yes. my latest patch not signed but published in a paste fixes the mcrypt nag.
36f4d99778248233…b32db759…2023-01-09 19:03:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 13:56:43 signpost: ticos are pretty cool. awt are you making a permanent relocation down there?
bc5bc2c30f810dd2…0f810dd2…2023-01-12 18:58:25 <asciilifeform> ~all of this, again, quite orthogonal to protocol spec, but gotta be answered before can bake usable gui pestron.
bc419193c215b1c3…c215b1c3…2022-12-04 23:47:46 <signpost> I suppose nothing stops anyone from putting HTML in the text hole, and having their client interpret it. doesn't ask much if anything from the protocol.
6e609aa4f2b169a2…468321d1…2022-12-07 01:26:36 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2016-12-07#1579629 << christ these rants were comedic gold, too.
bd9120258007a7c6…8007a7c6…2022-12-16 17:05:43 <signpost> one option would be that anyone can register, and anyone currently peered with deedbot can !!up which activates their peering.
b7ae395c52cf7ed2…02e13df3…2023-01-05 15:03:07 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-31#1019999 << awt, 1) accidental "mcryptfoo" there, and 2) since using "print" to log instead of otherwise omnipresent "logging" approach, may want to document the imo particularly sharp edge you're dodging there (ie. the no-op basicConfig())
e6b4d5c236f4d997…78248233…2023-01-09 19:10:23 <awt> asciilifeform: As I'm sure you know all the foreign banks report on you to the IRS. There's some sort of reward system. That said here at least having a local account makes everything payment related 10x easier.
54c32ce3cc5a8127…cc5a8127…2022-11-24 16:45:19 <asciilifeform> afaik that's their 1 remaining box that takes standard parts
9e3af4436e609aa4…021ded2c…2022-12-07 01:27:42 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-12-07 mircea_popescu: he's solved the problems other people might have, on the basis of what he imagines a biologist might do, which is so pointedly not what any biologist ever does you can scarcely begin to wonder what fucking highschool the author frequented, because his mental furniture seems to have dive
e8037727bd912025…bd912025…2022-12-16 17:06:00 <signpost> deedbot says something like "floppyjohnson wishes to join"
c205c0ccb7ae395c…88204d96…2023-01-05 15:04:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-31 17:12:39 awt: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=vO67 << Patch to fix handling of multiline messages if anyone wants to review before I sign and release.
c59791c4e6b4d5c2…052e6929…2023-01-09 19:10:57 <asciilifeform> awt: not only report, but this appears to be enuff of a headache for'em that in many places they simply tell you to fuckoff if you've only us passport.
2fd7d87a54c32ce3…54c32ce3…2022-11-24 16:45:47 <asciilifeform> (but imho uninteresting, who wants xeon knows where to get it without 'new bmw')
0f31587cd2e4a321…7bd2226c…2022-12-04 23:59:47 <asciilifeform> imho good opportunity to drive 1st nail into coffin of html : introduce sexprs in text payload.
61ef2cf39e3af443…6e609aa4…2022-12-07 01:26:59 <signpost> "... diverged from the common trunk somewhere around the age of NEGATIVE THIRTEEN,"
1af1ef64c59791c4…c59791c4…2023-01-09 19:11:36 <asciilifeform> (afaik they get no rewards, only buncha paperwork to fill at own expense, per reich treaty obligation)
57c94b42062e0236…0eb007a9…2023-01-13 18:54:38 <cgra> jonsykkel, did you perhaps draw some of your inspiration from the finnish åkesoft from the 90's? (see also their flagship game). unfortunately no proper english translation seems to exist
caf25af82fd7d87a…2fd7d87a…2022-11-24 16:48:11 <asciilifeform> non-replaceable ssd's on multi-$k 'pro' machines are a mega-lol imho.
c762127861ef2cf3…61ef2cf3…2022-12-07 01:29:18 <signpost> there was an entirely other world in there. glad it happened, though next time 1kyr reich.
4dd1d67b1af1ef64…e6b4d5c2…2023-01-09 19:13:24 <awt> asciilifeform: I definitely read somewhere that some of the massive fines you pay if caught goes to reward local snitches.
f89c3b2bcaf25af8…caf25af8…2022-11-24 16:48:59 <asciilifeform> sorta like hypothetical 'bmw' where can't change tyres.
584a47f9f4ed379a…d2e4a321…2022-12-05 00:51:25 <signpost> opens up quite a lot of flexibility to evolve in the viewer
ca95482fc7621278…c7621278…2022-12-07 01:33:48 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2016-12-08#1579935 << kinda looks like who is greater-ccp at this point.
6e0689ac4dd1d67b…1af1ef64…2023-01-09 19:16:17 <asciilifeform> awt: would make sense, but asciilifeform has nfi ; not actively followed subj since '17 expedition
c0de30adf89c3b2b…f89c3b2b…2022-11-24 16:49:28 <asciilifeform> got a flat? 'dun worry, it's recyclable, get 5% off new bmw when you send back the scrap heap'
e3b29ab1584a47f9…f4ed379a…2022-12-05 03:33:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017367 << why add moar type fields when 'command' not even threatens to run outta slots
5020bd61ca95482f…9e3af443…2022-12-07 01:34:54 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-12-08 mircea_popescu: the WHO is the major consideration ; the what is relatively equivalent.
3e47339f17840fa9…b8c01415…2022-12-16 17:07:52 <phf> i think the moat should be optional until it becomes a problem. !!up on #t was barrier to entry, because any could just /join #t and then run their mouth (including spam bots). the barrier to entry is already significantly high
a8d5d6706e0689ac…20d8103d…2023-01-09 19:35:06 signpost notices that asciilifeform's packets are coming from a new port
8195ef45c0de30ad…64d4dffc…2022-11-24 16:56:19 <billymg> yeah, i think the cheese grater mac pro is really their last machine where you can drop in your own sticks of ram, m.2 ssds, maybe even GPUs
8c24eedde3b29ab1…0461fda0…2022-12-05 03:34:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-04 15:49:20 signpost: the 6byte "mark+Z" is probably enough space to say both length and subtype.
1c83fc083e47339f…17840fa9…2022-12-16 17:08:38 <signpost> that's fair. aren't there currently station impl flaws that allow randos to fill our disk atm though?
afcdf272a8d5d670…a8d5d670…2023-01-09 19:35:21 <signpost> pulled the updated port from deedbot's AT, but still hearing as hearsay from this station
d6724f5e10b607f2…10b607f2…2023-01-19 08:56:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020794 <<>> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-28#1104048
5c6ad5218195ef45…8195ef45…2022-11-24 16:56:42 <billymg> sad about the 'pro' laptops losing swappable m.2 ssds
dc2824468c24eedd…e3b29ab1…2022-12-05 03:33:57 <asciilifeform> ( if for backwards-compat -- how's a msg with hypothetical text type field of unknown type anymoar back-compat. than a command where ditto ? )
333a0d4a5d997de6…5d997de6…2022-12-07 01:35:00 <signpost> africans finally left to their time. can't imagine there are enough nukes aimed there to make a permanent dent.
a4459deed6724f5e…f9aa2d3b…2023-01-19 08:56:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-28 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-28#1104038 << i've seen you make this point already, but also consider that work by its very nature is a loathsome affair, even when "take pride" and "born for it". the anarchist bob black has a quote that i like, that work starts when pla
91fefda1d6724f5e…bc0460e1…2023-01-19 08:57:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:04:36 phf[deedbot]: but i find all kinds of questions unanswered, like why rhodesia, how does information velocity factor into this, what's the essence of wokeism, how does "cellphone in every pocket" factor into this, why open borders, why modern holywood, why no "build in garage" culture, etc.
3eedf224d6724f5e…d6724f5e…2023-01-19 09:16:23 <crtdaydreams> On the flipside, especially evidient within my generation is "why bother?", only a couple clicks away from watching someone else do it. Other than that, can opt for other cheap forms of escape, e.g. vr, vidya games, netflix, endless scroooooll. Keyword is "escape"; why give a shit when brainwashed into "[insert generic dis
f5a7ad805c6ad521…c0de30ad…2022-11-24 16:51:55 <asciilifeform> with laptops at least excuse where 'most lusers smash the lcd before disk has chance to wear through'
aa473f3ddc282446…dc282446…2022-12-05 03:34:39 asciilifeform is of the 'fewer magick #s where at all possible' school of thought
cd56130c333a0d4a…f2b169a2…2022-12-07 01:40:18 <phf> i've woken up at 5am to go freeze my ass off in a deer stand, i can't comprehend this kind of heady threads at this point. will read tomorrow
2667ad3d3eedf224…3eedf224…2023-01-19 09:16:23 <crtdaydreams> tant catastrophe here] going to end us all eventually, why do anything that
117a7dadf5a7ad80…2610b576…2022-11-24 16:58:15 <billymg> asciilifeform: unless they make the mistake of not upgrading the ram config and the thing swaps to disk 24/7
afe33f86aa473f3d…aa473f3d…2022-12-05 03:35:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-04#1017356 << ideally, imho once dispense with (or separate) the irc frontend, (ACTION (...))
6b44ce48cd56130c…1aa3ce72…2022-12-07 02:45:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-06#1017693 << al.tar.gz + iirc archive.org/is have ~all the moar recent material
a1dbdc41b9d293ef…b9d293ef…2023-01-07 13:42:50 <awt> Given that support for irc clients is no longer specified, it appears that significant work will need to go into porting any extant irc bots.
1787057cccafd855…09562f92…2023-01-09 19:35:49 <signpost> asciilifeform: did you receive that deedbot message directly?
31fc3a67afe33f86…afe33f86…2022-12-05 03:36:30 <asciilifeform> sexprs 'degrade gracefully', if an older client not knows how to interpret (WHATEVER (...)), can simply print it
1a2c4a246b44ce48…5020bd61…2022-12-07 02:46:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-06 20:15:11 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, which reminded me, you ever made an archive of http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/?
317d82924e461b01…3e47339f…2022-12-16 17:10:02 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018606 << yeah, i think that's a valid point, of which i didn't think, because pest.lisp is significantly defensive
31783cf2a1dbdc41…a1dbdc41…2023-01-07 15:58:35 <awt> cgra are you running the gui in a different thread than the blatta station? If so how do you communicate between them?
1940f2045eb2ef61…1787057c…2023-01-09 21:21:04 <signpost> weird, because you looked current in deedbot's AT
65fe51ff5eb2ef61…5eb2ef61…2023-01-09 21:21:11 asciilifeform not, apparently, switched dynamic ip here
ab96b31d44c89d7c…44c89d7c…2023-01-19 09:26:07 <crtdaydreams> which is possibly not a dissimilar view from "fall of rome" but simliarities end with hedonism. e.g. now run into "how to fit lathe in 2nd story dorm room" so instead opt to buy 3D printer and make PLA ironman funkopop that someone posted the slicer files on makerspace
565d6273b29025f2…b29025f2…2022-11-24 16:54:17 <asciilifeform> in 'good ol' days' of slow mech disks, at least would immediately notice if yer swapping
f5bb349031fc3a67…584a47f9…2022-12-05 03:37:07 <signpost> I think the sexp markup idea covers every interesting use-case for content within a message, yep
739cfa7e1a2c4a24…6b44ce48…2022-12-07 02:45:29 <asciilifeform> sadly his usenet posts (mostly) lost with google's dynamiting of dejanews archive
f706fb6a317d8292…264c2860…2022-12-16 17:11:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 12:09:45 signpost: that's fair. aren't there currently station impl flaws that allow randos to fill our disk atm though?
5bac263731783cf2…b7ae395c…2023-01-07 16:36:20 <cgra> awt: yeah, different threads. just yesterday tried to put them in one thread, for simplicity, but i didn't like it due to apparent difficulty of achieving a snappy ui feel
0f249ac31940f204…65fe51ff…2023-01-09 21:22:44 <asciilifeform> signpost: and deedbot seems to be current on this end
c7e24f4fab96b31d…91fefda1…2023-01-19 09:27:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:01:08 phf[deedbot]: i think the kinds of analogies are insufficient for an explanation of modernity. like you can reduce locklin to "wokes took over science", then your analogy can be reduced to an eqaully popular meme of "we living through fall of rome"
b3754b33ab96b31d…ab96b31d…2023-01-20 09:11:51 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020956 << More or less, the point I was vying for was really "the machinist doesn't go home to work on a project on his personal hobby lathe after 12hr day." The tendency for passion to be destroyed by work results in the highly skilled individuals prioritizing commercialisms instead
263f4598739cfa7e…739cfa7e…2022-12-07 02:45:58 asciilifeform still has buncha unsorted on own box, sitting for 20+y...
243489fcf706fb6a…4e461b01…2022-12-16 17:11:47 <signpost> proper answer's probably "so they shouldn't"
ddad3e225bac2637…5bac2637…2023-01-07 16:40:10 <cgra> awt: i currently have two queue.Queue's for passing pest messages between threads, plus a threading.Lock to coordinate any periodic events
efd840ebc7e24f4f…c7e24f4f…2023-01-19 16:24:57 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020948 << from the cutoff it's not obvious if you're referencing bob black's zerowork or the gamification of the internet, because both points are made in the original
fab9e9d0b3754b33…392e72e4…2023-01-20 09:13:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 11:26:11 phf[deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020948 << from the cutoff it's not obvious if you're referencing bob black's zerowork or the gamification of the internet, because both points are made in the original
7b0301e0be844b24…f5bb3490…2022-12-05 03:37:30 <signpost> this plus making multipart messages their own command looks pretty tidy to me.
56cf9229263f4598…263f4598…2022-12-07 02:48:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-06#1017694 << can't speak for otherfolx, but when rereading these asciilifeform barfs evenmoar nao, than today, at mp's 'aristocratic' narcissism
d014cf06243489fc…243489fc…2022-12-16 17:12:05 <signpost> asciilifeform: any problem with trying the proposed n00b hole?
49efc4ffddad3e22…ddad3e22…2023-01-07 16:42:47 <cgra> awt: and finally, i have separate State objects for each thread, so can let sqlite do it's own thread coordination
c129c79404dfae09…04dfae09…2023-01-10 04:02:59 <asciilifeform> ACTION meanwhile, lulzily, found that the wx widget most suited to displaying log lines is atrociously slow on gtk/linux (blazing fast on crapple, for all the good that does asciilifeform) so will have to 'draw' that one (and handle text sel., etc somehow) after
f0b368efefd840eb…c7e24f4f…2023-01-19 16:26:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 03:57:28 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020794 <<>> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-28#1104048
35dc26896f53aaa1…6f53aaa1…2023-01-20 09:20:41 <crtdaydreams> I'm not too familiar with bob blacks work, but from this snippet we're both on the same page.
74bf4a812be1327e…117a7dad…2022-11-24 19:09:13 <billymg> speaking of btc price suppression, the criminal behind ftx not only not in handcuffs, but in fact speaking at some nytimes 'dealbook summit' https://www.nytimes.com/events/dealbook-summit#speakers
d700792d7b0301e0…be844b24…2022-12-05 03:38:11 <asciilifeform> if packets weren't stuck at rather tight fixed length, whole thing could be sexpr. but as it is need some (minimal) set of numeric codes, where need, but where not -- oughta sexpr imho
0d0f48cd56cf9229…1a2c4a24…2022-12-07 02:49:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-06 20:18:28 phf[awt]: this thread from the end of the page is neat, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579465
a3560b5dd014cf06…317d8292…2022-12-16 17:12:08 <phf> yeah, if somebody's going to pen test for us, more power to them
4dee978849efc4ff…b9c3eaf1…2023-01-07 17:04:28 asciilifeform has sumthing resembling a very traditional (wx) gui for pest, then set out to bake cpp pestron to go with it. so far have pseudo-terminal knob/cmd processor and config save etc. and not so much else
ee79c3c3f0b368ef…a4459dee…2023-01-19 16:25:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-28 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-28#1104038 << i've seen you make this point already, but also consider that work by its very nature is a loathsome affair, even when "take pride" and "born for it". the anarchist bob black has a quote that i like, that work starts when pla
8420e3a335dc2689…35dc2689…2023-01-20 09:22:04 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020962 << I feel like I articulated this somewhat with my use of "generational" but it's good to have it confirmed to be the exception, not the norm.
f9f8c1f335dc2689…fab9e9d0…2023-01-20 09:22:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 11:42:27 phf[awt|deedbot]: so when i bring up bob black it's mostly to acknowledge that nobody and any point of time wanted to work. that a base man's natural inclanation is to either play a fiddle by a shack or take it a step further and go be merry men in the sherwood forest
d625700274bf4a81…74bf4a81…2022-11-24 19:10:22 <billymg> only adding for the log record, not because it's any surprise
68ac38e4a3560b5d…cc22d523…2022-12-16 17:13:38 <asciilifeform> signpost, phf : imho n00b hole is an a++ thing, so long as the noobs are given strictly what they need to talk into the hole, and nomoar.
2c8eb1eae226cc87…e226cc87…2023-01-10 04:06:12 <asciilifeform> how 'drawing' worx ftr. moar or less 'naked' x11-style, tho you do get a font renderer.
54c3fca6ee79c3c3…efd840eb…2023-01-19 16:38:58 <phf> bob black places his zerowork ideas in historic context. he's influenced by 1970s new wave of anthropology, where educated post-hippies revived the noble savage myth, and argued that primitive man's life was not short and brutal, but was actually mostly lazy and fun.
b8421a7c8420e3a3…f9f8c1f3…2023-01-20 09:23:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 11:48:42 phf[deedbot|awt]: but here's a thing, bob black's ideas are basically timeless, where's high dopamine activities are the past 10 years
880bc5748420e3a3…8420e3a3…2023-01-20 09:31:06 <crtdaydreams> I initially thought that the rhodesia segue was rather tangential, retrospectively it raises an interesting q, are there any other historical "rhodesias"? Wherin ancient reich declared unpersoned. History being cyclic and all there should be some similarity within the last 800 years no?
2cda86590ff337b8…0ff337b8…2022-12-05 13:09:28 <whaack> anyone here have some good Spanish reading material?
74ce392c68ac38e4…68ac38e4…2022-12-16 17:14:12 <asciilifeform> earlier phf proposed a www-based talk hole, similarly
2bea08f805ff15f0…4dee9788…2023-01-07 18:14:23 <asciilifeform> cgra: originally planned, but nao considering various crackpotteries to avoid
7b8db2382c8eb1ea…2c8eb1ea…2023-01-10 04:06:35 asciilifeform considers a log view where can't select/copypasta quite useless
ea0e0a9754c3fca6…54c3fca6…2023-01-19 16:41:12 <phf> so when i bring up bob black it's mostly to acknowledge that nobody and any point of time wanted to work. that a base man's natural inclanation is to either play a fiddle by a shack or take it a step further and go be merry men in the sherwood forest
c11117aa880bc574…880bc574…2023-01-21 00:39:15 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021128 << chuckled at this
748207be1ec79ed9…1ec79ed9…2022-11-24 20:05:36 <asciilifeform> karpeles iirc also walking around as if were a normal human
d990bb3b2cda8659…d700792d…2022-12-05 14:51:52 <asciilifeform> whaack: e.g. g. g. marquez if you haven't yet.
9e205fcdc54a8863…c54a8863…2022-12-07 02:50:08 <asciilifeform> i.e. the condescending 'listen, lowly npcs, to what the player character has to say' tone. at the time, desensed to allergen, nao -- often drowns whatever interesting points, when rereading
13d9790a74ce392c…d014cf06…2022-12-16 17:14:49 <signpost> yup, thinking I put a www reg form on deedbot.org that takes key and nick, coughs up peering blob for deedbot station
215fbb017b8db238…7b8db238…2023-01-10 04:08:04 <asciilifeform> the usual way to display 'civilized' word-wrapped/selectable/pastable text in wx ftr. dunwork with the 'fast' scrolled window thing tho, cuz creates objects, no longer 'fast'.
e952903fea0e0a97…ea0e0a97…2023-01-19 16:46:30 <phf> i guess come to think of it your elaboration covers both cases, because in the original you're quoting i'm also wondering about all the high dopamine activities that have replaced "playing a fiddle"
9b19f886c11117aa…c06d67b7…2023-01-21 00:40:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:12:02 phf[deedbot]: like in that old joke, one russian is decent guy, two russians are best friends, three russians are a revolutionary cell with a traitor
8aa94289748207be…748207be…2022-11-24 20:06:06 <asciilifeform> (to prolly nobody's surprise. they're both working for the reich and did a++ work)
c47d05a0d990bb3b…7b0301e0…2022-12-05 14:54:47 <signpost> woke up loving the sexpr message format even more; harkens back to threads about building a proper www.
4fb6f3bd9e205fcd…9e205fcd…2022-12-07 13:06:41 <phf> man was at least a philosophy TA at some point, enitrely entitled to take a deductive tone in this case, and in many others.
dafc0df813d9790a…a3560b5d…2022-12-16 17:15:12 <phf> yeah, www-based one requires significantly more work, where's this idea is just a handful of dozen-lines deedbot extensions
c8655d96fc0551cb…31783cf2…2023-01-07 18:44:20 <awt> asciilifeform: are you going to "standardize" the interface between your gui and station?
47f194ed215fbb01…215fbb01…2023-01-10 04:09:13 <asciilifeform> this is why os-supplied gui widgets are ugh. (and aint a wx-specific issue at all for that matter) -- can't meaningfully compose them in arbitrary way
27f48c64e952903f…e952903f…2023-01-19 16:47:29 <phf> but here's a thing, bob black's ideas are basically timeless, where's high dopamine activities are the past 10 years
48ccd824980dc74e…980dc74e…2023-01-20 15:10:03 <asciilifeform> if you want a recent one -- 'free state of fiume'
affaa908a50b772f…a50b772f…2022-11-24 23:05:40 <shinohai> Anywho got my lilygo watch in the post, am coding up a horrid bash script to assist with serial functions then gonna shove ulisp into it.
17626df1c47d05a0…c47d05a0…2022-12-05 14:55:08 <signpost> can have for example proper transclusion without worrying about referenced material disappearing.
f54c22ba4fb6f3bd…4fb6f3bd…2022-12-07 13:07:43 <phf> but i'm curious, do you think you'll ever forgive your former friend, who's now dead, over an unpleasant falling out you guys had?
81c9513adafc0df8…dafc0df8…2022-12-16 17:15:55 <phf> signpost, do you still have deedbot running on #a?
09216d07c8655d96…fc0551cb…2023-01-07 22:18:41 <asciilifeform> awt: atm it's 'integrated' (tho not too tightly) but defo planning 'headless' mode
f8a4ae8227f48c64…27f48c64…2023-01-19 16:49:53 <phf> still doesn't explain for example why the west decided to destroy rhodesia where i think the "das racis" proto-playbook was established http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010582
e451bd5e48ccd824…48ccd824…2023-01-20 15:12:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021101 << many (most?) programmers not program in civilian life. (e.g. asciilifeform's brother does not)
5ea238e53ca579da…3ca579da…2023-01-21 00:44:52 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021140 << all the fonts in the world and that's what you choose? -_-
65af7236affaa908…03fe9449…2022-11-25 20:21:16 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-24#1016858 << this one apparently outranks karpeles. "baw isn't it sad that SBF was thwarted in his attempt to save the world" in all the rags.
90ca57bd17626df1…17626df1…2022-12-05 14:58:01 <signpost> extension mechanism's also obvious and tidy, can import packages of symbols like any respectable little lisp.
66e2b2e6f54c22ba…f54c22ba…2022-12-07 13:09:03 <phf> and the other question is do you perceive any particular tone in your own writing from that time?
f878410381c9513a…74ce392c…2022-12-16 17:16:37 <asciilifeform> ideally would rate-limit the n00b hole (e.g. 10msgs in 10sec or somesuch) but afaik this knob not yet exists in blatta
d4fecdd009216d07…09216d07…2023-01-07 22:19:40 <asciilifeform> awt: currently asciilifeform's notion is to make a 'for civilians' pestron, i.e. 1 gui proggy that runs on all 3 traditional os; but not intended as 'final solution to pestron problem' by any means
01587b8b465075b0…36f4d997…2023-01-10 04:11:22 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-04 asciilifeform: cgra: that aint the hard part. the hard (and seemingly impossible part) is permitting ~clickable~ links in edit box ~while it is editable~, none of the existing gui kits for x11 seem to support it.
da345f73f8a4ae82…f0b368ef…2023-01-19 16:51:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 00:27:53 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010560 << like i've mentioned before, i've been studying subj. on account of first known to me case of das racis!1 being used as weapon. but specifically why “build rhodesia” because of how fervently patriotic rhodesians were. were building
df0f432be451bd5e…b8421a7c…2023-01-20 15:13:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 04:13:05 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020956 << More or less, the point I was vying for was really "the machinist doesn't go home to work on a project on his personal hobby lathe after 12hr day." The tendency for passion to be destroyed by work results i
02ce48be5ea238e5…9b19f886…2023-01-21 00:46:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:34:39 phf[deedbot]: http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-they-are-watching.png
e20311835ea238e5…5ea238e5…2023-01-21 00:49:26 <crtdaydreams> signpost last attempt deedbot didn't respond to !!help in pm
d2fcbbbf65af7236…62ed21e7…2022-11-25 20:22:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-24 15:06:41 asciilifeform[5]: karpeles iirc also walking around as if were a normal human
4a40ca2e90ca57bd…a7f0f147…2022-12-05 15:47:10 <awt> phf: key for a111 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=39_H
b65d716d66e2b2e6…9e205fcd…2022-12-07 15:59:34 <asciilifeform> phf: prolly asciilifeform from the period would read, to 'civilian', as even moar unhinged than mp
e0f355faf8784103…f8784103…2022-12-16 17:17:10 <asciilifeform> phf: deedbot not currently tuned in #a
ee4c6f7ad4fecdd0…d4fecdd0…2023-01-07 22:19:53 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's pestron will be simply yet-anuther-pestron.
e1f60b1c01587b8b…465075b0…2023-01-10 04:11:57 asciilifeform has notion that he can 'cheat' by 'floating' a wxtextctrl on top of log line when clicked, where can then select etc
a2ec73afda345f73…f8a4ae82…2023-01-19 16:53:42 <phf> because, and this is an attempt to make a satisfying grand theory of everything, this also ties to e.g. recent thread about finland, the disappearance of hacker spaces and therefore disappearance of hacker culture
3d3820fcdf0f432b…e451bd5e…2023-01-20 15:13:16 <asciilifeform> ( not because 'tired from work', but simply interested in diff thing, he's a 7dan amateur go player )
8121ad81e2031183…95d64912…2023-01-21 00:49:52 <signpost> somebody else just used the peer command in the IRC net the other day, oughta work
2cd9631fe2031183…e2031183…2023-01-21 01:02:34 <crtdaydreams> signpost: deedbots generated an invalid key
ca5f597ad2fcbbbf…65af7236…2022-11-25 20:23:04 <signpost> at any rate, hilarious to watch. meanwhile the face of chicom financial hybrid war (CZ) has pledged however many billions to buy up distressed shitcoin projects.
f9db3d4fb65d716d…b65d716d…2022-12-07 16:00:22 <asciilifeform> re 'forgive' -- dead fella not needs anybody's forgiveness. in asciilifeform's pov, situation resembled (and for all asciilifeform knew, resolved to) terminal alcoholism.
d179ec77e0f355fa…13d9790a…2022-12-16 17:18:06 <signpost> lemme see if I can easily fix the bug I have with multiple instances running concurrently
ac8be634ee4c6f7a…ee4c6f7a…2023-01-07 22:22:29 <asciilifeform> (thought is: in 'headless mode', could drive bots via socket. but aint there yet, still implementing various basics)
4f1d4f08a2ec73af…4757477a…2023-01-19 17:05:23 <asciilifeform> phf: iirc the rm -rf'ing of rhodesia started as classical us/su proxy war
07c68b953d3820fc…3d3820fc…2023-01-20 18:53:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021108 << well, i obviously think that it raises all kinds of questions, hence the tangent :)
c5173fdb068b08b3…068b08b3…2023-01-21 00:47:45 <phf> crtdaydreams, it was a joke at some point, and then it stuck. right before i switched to this ungodly combo it looked like this http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png
a05134c78121ad81…8121ad81…2023-01-21 00:50:32 <signpost> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-01-18#1114485
4e2543baca5f597a…6ea13096…2022-11-25 21:55:25 <awt> but you see he's not chinese he's canadian fr fr
294e619fa3b9bddd…a3b9bddd…2022-12-05 16:17:44 <phf> we had a thread on sexps as interchange format, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741761
336f7c83f9db3d4f…f9db3d4f…2022-12-07 16:01:05 <asciilifeform> forgive friend who dissolved his brain? sure. still unpleasant to rewatch the process.
f65bf209ac8be634…05ff15f0…2023-01-08 11:16:11 <cgra> i sense a risk my current tkinter gui may end up rewritten if wanted a log search that would ~instantly filter text as search terms are typed. and probably other roadblocks waiting to surface, given my lack of deeper tcl/tk understanding. awt you (or anyone else) want a patch for it regardless? may serve as a general py gu
8100969907c68b95…df0f432b…2023-01-20 18:54:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 04:32:20 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: I initially thought that the rhodesia segue was rather tangential, retrospectively it raises an interesting q, are there any other historical "rhodesias"? Wherin ancient reich declared unpersoned. History being cyclic and all there should be some similarit
8eb66236c5173fdb…d6e45732…2023-01-21 00:48:14 <signpost> crtdaydreams: do the peer thing in the IRC side for now, haven't brought it over here.
79c480c3a05134c7…e7329442…2023-01-21 00:50:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-01-18 unpx: !!peer unpx
b0f073ff4e2543ba…4e2543ba…2022-11-26 03:43:26 <phf> asciilifeform, hey, do you know something to me about midnightcommander: is there any way to make large file copy over ssh not suck? i honestly have no idea what it's doing, because i will have the progress bar for copy run, then there will be a second progress in the status line showing some other number, and if the file
e443160a294e619f…294e619f…2022-12-05 16:19:06 <phf> well, it was a very brief thread, and everyone came out thinking exactly as they did before. the conclusion was that only "tits" were the acceptable interface out of the box, and that mp even patches those.
ad953f8b336f7c83…333a0d4a…2022-12-07 16:03:19 <signpost> but lettuce not now forgive NPCs for their lowliness!
2fecb9c84e6ec8c9…e0f355fa…2022-12-16 17:18:52 asciilifeform hopes to retire 'dulapnet' in favour of a pest portal, once such thing exists
f38f838af65bf209…f65bf209…2023-01-08 11:16:11 <cgra> i fiddling item nevertheless. oh, and what if there were no clean upgrade path to it, from irc-blatta, other than starting over? this may or may not be the case...
524367f5644b02a0…4f1d4f08…2023-01-19 17:06:56 asciilifeform distinctly recalled story of vietnam-style 'communist'/'anticommunist'(tm) civil war
142797a981009699…07c68b95…2023-01-20 18:54:01 <phf> but i'm not sure if i'm particularly interested in historic parallels, because i *personally* find them to be very unsatisfying
96bda79579c480c3…a05134c7…2023-01-21 00:52:31 <signpost> phf: is it a given that humans need a "why live"?
e378f0c6da01e206…64d278b9…2023-01-21 01:03:53 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021361 << i don't think that's true, and there are several reason why not, if you want to explore that direction
0f370defda01e206…da01e206…2023-01-21 01:04:07 <crtdaydreams> er it doesn't look like a pestkey at all infact
d4c0fe20b0f073ff…b0f073ff…2022-11-26 03:43:26 <phf> is particularly big (how big? who knows? 5b maybe?) mc just locks
ca053116e443160a…e443160a…2022-12-05 16:21:04 <phf> i maybe wasn't articulate on the point, but i still think that sexps make for a poor interchange format (and neither bolix nor cadr used them for that)
dd0616c22fecb9c8…81c9513a…2022-12-16 17:21:17 <phf> another surgical extension would be !!up support, if a newcommer is connected through a single hole, then it's easy to restrict the way the packets travel. "broadcast-text travels from pestnet to newcommer station, but not the other"
ce318e5ff38f838a…c8655d96…2023-01-08 15:04:01 <awt> cgra: I would definately be interested in seeing a general py gui fiddling item.
124f66f3ce148afd…aadb72c2…2023-01-10 15:36:35 <billymg> shape of the chart is starting to look like the lead-up to the ftx pop
a9af67ee142797a9…142797a9…2023-01-20 18:58:31 <phf> the way i tie together rhodesia, finland and modern "failure to act", is that they all are about intentional destruction of organized private spaces
b751514b96bda795…96bda795…2023-01-21 00:52:43 <signpost> stick a guy's head in a bucket of water and most of them want to live.
36df9f0fe378f0c6…02ce48be…2023-01-21 01:05:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 20:01:19 signpost: *if* I want to live, I can get a lot of sane ethical notions which necessarily fall out of that as a consequence provided I try to well-define "I" and "live"
bda4aa80d4c0fe20…d4c0fe20…2022-11-26 03:45:09 <phf> also it feels like on average it takes longer than rsync over ssh, and there's no way to cancel out of it. sometimes canceling the copy will take longer than literally opening a second terminal and running rsync to copy the thing takes
12d5ee3db5b17370…b5b17370…2022-12-07 16:03:53 <signpost> every. single. one of us. was at max arrogance during the period.
728f0933dd0616c2…2fecb9c8…2022-12-16 17:22:22 <asciilifeform> phf: lurkers can simply read a www log tho, imho not much reason to support dedicated lurk-only peerings
0735a2f4ce318e5f…f38f838a…2023-01-08 15:14:12 <cgra> re log search in general, i suppose somebody could, if wanted to, retro-'hearsay' old irc logs into pest history. and make possible netchain-links all the way back to 'day 0'.
55df80ca124f66f3…01587b8b…2023-01-10 15:31:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 10:05:51 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: lol 'exchrate heating up, let's pop anuther gox' eh
f541587fa9af67ee…a9af67ee…2023-01-20 19:02:02 <phf> and one hypothesis why failure to act is about internalized demoralization, which perhaps stems from some kind of possibly misapplied principles of fairness, etc.
1637c4b4a9af67ee…3d3820fc…2023-01-20 19:02:06 <asciilifeform> 1st law of 1000y reich construction : 'there shall be nowhere to defect to'
7fd96640d8a17af3…e378f0c6…2023-01-21 01:05:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021364 << personally meaningful meaning that you can derive meaning out of it. like if you went to chop wood , it is to make fire. "i chop wood to make fire" if you went to chop wood, it is because you want to destroy "i'm become death" etc. the narration around it
f1970994bda4aa80…bda4aa80…2022-11-26 03:56:22 <phf> it looks like this ticket is related to at least one of the problems https://midnight-commander.org/ticket/68 opened 14 years ago, last modified 6 years ago
e95559aa1485dbd0…90ca57bd…2022-12-05 16:22:00 <signpost> phf could you restate your critique? I'll attempt badly. "one would have to constrain their definition of sexpr so much that it approaches or even exceeds bothering to design a proper interchange format" ?
9db667f012d5ee3d…12d5ee3d…2022-12-07 16:04:14 <signpost> this is probably even a necessary ingredient of any aspirational cultural upheaval.
a3a24fa40735a2f4…ac8be634…2023-01-08 16:34:45 <asciilifeform> cgra: asciilifeform thought about this, but imho promises to be gnarly (there's >1 historic irc chans, many of which ran concurrently)
9c5a856ab2c0665b…d626e65d…2023-01-19 17:07:34 <asciilifeform> phf: know of a decent source re subj ?
6b683ed31637c4b4…b124dc6e…2023-01-20 19:02:07 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-06-07 asciilifeform: ru storyteller v. pelevin had a scene where 'we had sovok, but to ours, people could bring bootleg jeans and music. and it was even possible to get out. now you have one in usa, but there is important difference : no one will bring bootleg jeans to it, and no one will get out, beca
bcf9f8a07fd96640…36df9f0f…2023-01-21 01:06:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 20:02:56 signpost: phf: what's personally meaningful? drives behavior in some self-sustaining way. get's a volitional chain reaction going?
6f4acba8db620c31…3e78a95c…2023-01-21 01:06:24 <signpost> don't see why not. I'm gonna trash the key anyway
b8581ab1db620c31…db620c31…2023-01-21 03:38:35 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021122 << I feel like this is too easily boiled down to "muh commies" sure it makes sense linearly, but it's missing something and I can't put my finger on it.
4feba433f1970994…f1970994…2022-11-26 03:57:25 <phf> all kinds of "fish" related bugs, i've seen at least some of them…
21f2b683e95559aa…e95559aa…2022-12-05 16:22:12 <signpost> and this leaves aside things like efficient wire protocol packing
32b03925077b1142…dd0616c2…2022-12-16 17:23:10 <phf> asciilifeform, i'm thinking how to support this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018600
03fc1c00a3a24fa4…a3a24fa4…2023-01-08 16:35:17 <asciilifeform> and would be odd to have modern-day netchain replies to ancient msgs displayed next to the latter
fb87cd6a9c5a856a…b2c0665b…2023-01-19 17:11:59 <phf> asciilifeform, unfortunately no. there's a lot of youtube videos of e.g. bbc or us media doing coverage of rhodesia, and then the bush war, and you can read up on key events of the war itself in e.g. new york times articles. nyt keeps archives of its published articles way into 1950s
b204b03e6b683ed3…f541587f…2023-01-20 19:04:46 <phf> and i think that this internalized demoralization in the west and in us is instilled since early childhood with various "share your toys", "let john play", and various other forms of be nice
c27459dcd1390861…0e61bf1e…2023-01-21 00:53:21 <phf> leave a guy doing something day in day out and he kind of starts questioning why he's doing it, always
3e78a95cbcf9f8a0…42ce814a…2023-01-21 01:05:43 <signpost> crtdaydreams: encrypt and gpg me the output pls
0dc72869b8581ab1…270aaccb…2023-01-21 03:39:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:05:59 phf[awt|deedbot]: and i think that this internalized demoralization in the west and in us is instilled since early childhood with various "share your toys", "let john play", and various other forms of be nice
835d167fb8581ab1…b8581ab1…2023-01-21 04:15:09 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021415 << that's interesting because it assumes a common moral alignment, both parties have a not dissimilar view of what is right and wrong, this discourse brings to mind Is God a Tao?.
1a766b6e4feba433…8aa94289…2022-11-26 04:40:07 <asciilifeform> phf: 'fish' is a horrendous hack -- iirc pisses the file over base64, and at snail's pace (and satan help you if you have over9000 files, there's a sometimes ~1s overhead per)
fa1854557eb92611…329d80c9…2022-12-07 16:54:57 <shinohai> logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017724 << "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness ...."
b99d55f532b03925…f706fb6a…2022-12-16 17:24:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 12:06:50 signpost: one option would be that anyone can register, and anyone currently peered with deedbot can !!up which activates their peering.
a90901be03fc1c00…0735a2f4…2023-01-08 20:44:56 <cgra> asciilifeform: looking specifically at pest_0xfa_pre_draft.pdf, maybe want to specify handles case-insensitive?
29820040de2de812…de2de812…2023-01-10 16:10:28 <billymg> twitter now unusable for logged out searching, removed their 'latest' (simple chronological order) view
44a6ccc4fb87cd6a…fb87cd6a…2023-01-19 17:13:58 <phf> and then there's a lot books, but they are kind of a slog, poorly edited, mostly self-published accounts from participants. i have a small backlog bulk of which is published in south africa and nowhere else, but i don't think that even in that pile there will be "the definitive guide"
9bfe0e5bb204b03e…b204b03e…2023-01-20 19:05:51 <phf> because there might be very good reasons why you don't want to share your toys, or let john join your little club, and not all of them are "because you're meany"
277a8accc27459dc…c27459dc…2023-01-21 00:53:58 <phf> the whole fall from grace narrative is about the loss of the inherent meaning, and being made to question
3ee60944835d167f…0dc72869…2023-01-21 04:16:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 22:10:00 phf[deedbot|awt]: so like when gotcha people say "oh you saying you're only good because sky daddy told you so", the answer is "fuck off"
0182f8fc835d167f…835d167f…2023-01-21 04:16:47 <crtdaydreams> I'm underqualified to make any contributions though. I'm still mostly unfamiliar with the nietzchean "god ded" onion below the skin.
ab5d70081a766b6e…1a766b6e…2022-11-26 04:40:25 <asciilifeform> really aint usable for anyffing heavy, or if yer in any kinda hurry.
fabd7625bee0b9ec…bee0b9ec…2022-12-07 16:05:20 signpost sees asciilifeform's pest work as having much cultural continuity with that past.
9734d80229820040…29820040…2023-01-10 16:16:45 <billymg> i used to use that in combination with min_faves:x min_replies:y to get a more honest feed, as opposed to 'top' which is whatever they choose to promote
e127db0544a6ccc4…44a6ccc4…2023-01-19 17:22:17 <phf> but to the vietnam point, it was not a proxy war at all, and that's a non-controversial encyclopedic position. rhodesia was on uk shitlist for declaring unilateral independence, on western shitlist for white minority rule, so when soviets started funding guerilla factions which fir G#Sԭ±bhCh%q {1
3b86697d9bfe0e5b…1637c4b4…2023-01-20 19:06:19 asciilifeform still remembers the not-least-bit-'natural' death of usenet via TBs of shannonized spamola, and believes that even this was part of said 'destruction of private spaces'
52c9ef27277a8acc…277a8acc…2023-01-21 00:54:28 <phf> i mean, that's why you have victorian "noble savage" , or the 1970s rethinking of hunter gatherers
1f76b142553043e9…7fd96640…2023-01-21 01:08:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021373 << whatever ethical notions you extract from wanting to leave will also be product of your entire western civ makeup
fb53f1a80182f8fc…0182f8fc…2023-01-21 04:20:04 <crtdaydreams> The best I can do (which imo more valuable to reflect on) is "why die?" more or less moving on to "memento mori"
8636ea13ab5d7008…ab5d7008…2022-11-26 04:41:58 <asciilifeform> fwiw i've never seen it lock up tho, unless sumthing happened to the pipe
f697b829f1767e57…f1767e57…2022-12-05 16:23:10 signpost likes "here's this little space with tidy structures and symbolic reference" and isn't married to the representation
2a1e14acfabd7625…fabd7625…2022-12-07 16:05:32 <signpost> the hallowed status of the logs, and putting them at their right place, among a peerage.
e02e8aabc838ccc3…8e052036…2022-12-07 16:58:14 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: mp went on for kilometres re 'effete codemonkey's bias in favour of buttonpressing solutions' but suffered equally idiotic 'meatmonkey's bias for 'manly'-flavoured solutions'
75b8e1b080a523a8…32b03925…2022-12-16 17:24:54 <phf> because you get your peering, you stand up a station, but you don't get any kind of immediate response until somebody does !!up, you're basiclaly fully deactivated. if you have a lurk-only peering, you're on pest net right away without any need for lords' manual operation
ce3083bfd610c4a4…d610c4a4…2023-01-08 21:00:12 <asciilifeform> (atm and in prev. specs they were case-sensitive)
bee1dfbf9734d802…88e284ea…2023-01-10 19:46:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-10#1020267 << shithub ditto
e0ca6f44e127db05…e127db05…2023-01-19 17:22:17 <phf> st resulted in terrorist attacks, and later in full scale war, west's reaction was to put rhodesia under sanctions G#Sԭ±bhCh%q {1
6747ed0c52c9ef27…d1390861…2023-01-21 00:55:20 <signpost> you know, you routinely claim I'm disrespectful while being disrespectful by default. western man wanting the entire cosmos to ring out with purpose for his wee self might be most of the problem.
e346b0191f76b142…bcf9f8a0…2023-01-21 01:09:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 20:05:36 signpost: of course I do.
499851f98636ea13…8636ea13…2022-11-26 04:43:32 <asciilifeform> it worx ok for editing a config on remote box. asciilifeform uses it (for ~20y nao) to upload items to www.
2a771752f697b829…58ef7238…2022-12-05 16:23:19 <phf> once you start restricting sexps for practical serialization use, you end up either with something like json or something close to ASN
65090e082a1e14ac…336f7c83…2022-12-07 16:49:23 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform enthusiastically went with the 'upheaval' style -- warpaint, 'hurrah patriotism', whole kit. and these things are viscerally fun, but imho inevitably distracting from productively sweating over handmade clockwork
c10da294e02e8aab…2a1e14ac…2022-12-07 16:58:56 <signpost> all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
e6b00a6f75b8e1b0…80a523a8…2022-12-16 17:26:34 asciilifeform suspects that the gymnastics of setting up station / peering w/ deedbot will be sufficient bozo filter for long time. defo need a bw brake to keep some joker from filling disks tho, at least
62500400bee1dfbf…55df80ca…2023-01-10 19:47:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-10 11:05:32 billymg: twitter now unusable for logged out searching, removed their 'latest' (simple chronological order) view
096e76bae0ca6f44…e0ca6f44…2023-01-19 17:24:00 <phf> which is "the great betrayal" that ian smith refers to in his autobiography
83e7637a95c17b26…6b683ed3…2023-01-20 19:07:47 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-06-19 asciilifeform: ( see also mircea_popescu's '...bullying is done by normal, sane and upstanding humans who are trying to do their part so we don't live among monsters' -- http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes )
77967818556d52c8…556d52c8…2023-01-21 04:29:04 <crtdaydreams> It's rather evident the lizards are crawling after some form of digital immortality and/or trancendance, if just soley to postpone death. Whilist "memento mori" is a more noble perspective imo, a base fear can be a pretty powerful motivator.
42c3e7d5499851f9…499851f9…2022-11-26 04:44:20 <asciilifeform> prolly could be made faster, but not easily (iirc it uploads a shell turd that decodes the text piss errytime)
fb55935b2a771752…2a771752…2022-12-05 16:25:15 <phf> out of the box lisp sexps are a turing complete set of human computer interaction conventions
c8a0619b65090e08…65090e08…2022-12-07 16:49:59 <asciilifeform> 'upheaval with warpaint' prolly worx better for 'd00dz with pointy sticks' fighting style than for 'let's build machines'
cfd3ec11e6b00a6f…75b8e1b0…2022-12-16 17:26:56 <phf> that's why i'm proposing a symmetrical !!peer from outside, !!unpeer from insdie mechanism, which is aligned with how things are implemented right now
58c53958462939ab…462939ab…2023-01-08 21:03:44 <asciilifeform> ( and brings up the q -- why display e.g. hypothetical 'Cgra' as hearsay of 'cgra' when the 2 readily distinguishable if both are present on net ? )
c042cb9d62500400…62500400…2023-01-10 19:47:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 20:16:55 asciilifeform[5]: in apropos lulz, shithub apparently no longer lets you search if not logged in
642d9398096e76ba…096e76ba…2023-01-19 17:26:35 <phf> so then you have 15 years of bush war, under sanctions, rhodesians against zimbabwe african national liberation army, mugabe's zimbabwe african national union and zimbabwe people's revolutionary army
2ba87b6183e7637a…9bfe0e5b…2023-01-20 19:09:55 <phf> and i suspect there's synergistic process, with ideology on one side and "this benefits us" on the other
5c174bb00532485d…0532485d…2023-01-21 00:55:55 <signpost> and good riddance, the thing wasn't built for us. we happened in it.
6e0749f03df08b05…3df08b05…2023-01-21 01:13:09 <phf> your chains of causality themselves would be shaped by western logic, and in whatever reasoning you're going to have a variety of confounding variables to your thinking
ed38de88fb55935b…fb55935b…2022-12-05 16:26:13 <phf> so you necessarily have to narrow it down to "this, here, is our sexp". at which point the question becomes, why sexp?
849d9a40c8a0619b…c8a0619b…2022-12-07 16:54:24 <asciilifeform> mp for his part was visibly (and sympathetically) frustrated at presiding over band of clockmakers rather than pikemen. but if wanted the latter, oughta have config'd his time machine correctly.
08d02e1a58c53958…58c53958…2023-01-08 21:04:15 <asciilifeform> seems as if it ~subtracts~ useful info re authenticity, rather than adds any
1c461a60c042cb9d…bee1dfbf…2023-01-10 19:48:18 <asciilifeform> see, if they let 'anyone' load it, someone could, ohnoez, scrape 'their' content
0c8fb3be642d9398…642d9398…2023-01-19 17:36:17 <phf> i know it's a folly to wikipedia pilpul, but i decide to check on what it says
9fecf32f2ba87b61…2ba87b61…2023-01-20 19:10:48 <phf> like in that old joke, one russian is decent guy, two russians are best friends, three russians are a revolutionary cell with a traitor
16b020fd5c174bb0…52c9ef27…2023-01-21 00:55:58 <phf> yeah, but "stick a guy's head in a bucket" is an obviously gotcha comment!
822661ed6e0749f0…6e0749f0…2023-01-21 01:15:21 <phf> so you can get a lof of "sane" ethical notions that "necessarily" fall out it, but both parts that i put in quotes will be fully compromised. as an armchair exercise it might give a solid vision, that another western similarly inclined individual might even share, but everything el XԧۣQbtzcDp#1hV
b02f3b814a456670…4a456670…2023-01-22 09:44:24 <crtdaydreams> It's surprisingly difficult to find a working demo on e.g. youtube of Genera running on actual bolix iron that isn't a "gabriel_laddel" abomination.
272cb95ced38de88…ed38de88…2022-12-05 16:26:35 <phf> and the fact that it's human readable/writable first also becomes a hindrence
b09607681cd738fd…1cd738fd…2022-12-16 17:28:09 asciilifeform also in favour of a 'n00bs peer with deedbot, can talk at 1msg/s until unplugged' tho, in the mean time
452610aa08d02e1a…08d02e1a…2023-01-08 21:05:00 <asciilifeform> a faux 'cgra' with handle 'Cgra' helpfully supplies 'confession' re his bogosity
133746b80c8fb3be…0c8fb3be…2023-01-19 17:36:53 <phf> there's a massive background section that doesn't mention sanctions once, but it says, without a quote "Backed by proxy by the United States and its Western allies, the Rhodesian Front (RF) took an uncompromising position against the communist ideology of the ZIPRA and ZANLA."
ce46e43c9fecf32f…9fecf32f…2023-01-20 19:13:28 <phf> but anyway, not to detour, but the demoralization stems from the fact that whatever you might build will be destroyed, because there's a huge mental leap from socially indoctrinated kid into "fuck off, we're full"
f57ea14816b020fd…5c174bb0…2023-01-21 00:56:24 <signpost> it's not. it's a point to the baser urge far beneath the medium which contains the argument for why live
eaf1e779822661ed…822661ed…2023-01-21 01:15:21 <phf> se about it will lack any kind of universality XԧۣQbtzcDp#1hV
1410c957b02f3b81…b02f3b81…2023-01-22 09:46:07 <crtdaydreams> "hey bro check out my lisp machine" "cool, what chipset?" "oh it's acktually just an acer lappy running an emulator, but potato potato"
b1a000c6b0960768…b0960768…2022-12-16 17:28:47 <asciilifeform> ( and ideally we'll have N such gates, rather than only 1 )
d8d571522cd2d538…9734d802…2023-01-10 23:19:09 <billymg> asciilifeform: they're walking a fine line, the more walls they throw up the more incentive there is to simply not use their "services" at all
38ad86f4133746b8…133746b8…2023-01-19 17:38:12 <phf> which is a fabrication, but can be pilpuled "well, what does _backed_ really mean?" because further down there's clarification, "The United States took the official position that it would not recognise Rhodesia as an independent state, but some American soldiers who had seen combat in Vietnam joined the Rhodesian Front."
c9059c26ce46e43c…95c17b26…2023-01-20 19:14:40 <asciilifeform> not merely destroyed. but unhappened/invisible, because the fundamental prohibition is on 'room with 7 smart people w/out a politruk' and without 'neutron absorber' idjits with 'rights'
d8cc6e9bf57ea148…f57ea148…2023-01-21 00:56:40 <signpost> and if that isn't flowing up to drive the movement of the words, the underlying thing's probably broken.
18d5545eeaf1e779…eaf1e779…2023-01-21 01:17:35 <phf> i don't even think that you can extract some kind of personal principles out of it, because they will fully depend on your environment also. like if you do that exercise from a safety of texan homestead as opposed to doing same exercise but you suddenly found yourself in eastern ukrain or in somalia
00f70aef1410c957…1410c957…2023-01-22 09:49:21 <crtdaydreams> like ffs, it's literally just a script binding qemu to X with a genera image
f1d2cf59110c84e6…110c84e6…2022-12-05 16:28:11 <signpost> what'd be an alternate way to wrap some text with being a link, bold, etc?
7f87d1d7068ca095…452610aa…2023-01-08 21:06:00 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform's original 'ascii-only' rule re handles was so that they are guaranteed to be visually distinguishable. )
a37798f1d8d57152…2cd2d538…2023-01-10 23:17:35 <asciilifeform> billymg: already difficult to picture wtf one'd use e.g. shithub
5e83dee338ad86f4…38ad86f4…2023-01-19 17:39:03 <phf> which as far as i understand is the most accurate and complete assesment of u.s. support
3522cad9c9059c26…ce46e43c…2023-01-20 19:14:49 <phf> and if 50 years ago you literally had to be building a white ethnostate with black majority, then now a superbowl get together where it's only white guys is racist
51b57f39c9059c26…81009699…2023-01-20 19:16:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:30:30 asciilifeform[5]: phf: prolly there are , let's say, 7 people in usa building electrolytic milling machines ( an asciilifeform attempt fwiw ) in garages, but they're all 'hiki' and will never meet
9e360bcdd8cc6e9b…16b020fd…2023-01-21 00:57:49 <phf> i don't know how that follows. "why live" is not ever about "why continue living", which is obviously a biological prerogative
0ea737f218d5545e…18d5545e…2023-01-21 01:18:31 <phf> it's a separate question of whether or not you agree with this, but that's also the major reason why death of god is such a big deal
86f0c32300f70aef…2159745f…2023-01-22 09:59:29 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021537 << gotta try this out, ty
44f3c6dc00f70aef…00f70aef…2023-01-26 04:51:50 <crtdaydreams> phf: I'd quite like to hear more about Rhodesia, currently filling in blanks and conglomerating sources and key ideas. Currently watching this interview, which only serves to raise more questions than it answers.
532fae42c5c030c6…c5c030c6…2022-11-27 22:59:13 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-25#1016874 << this line lands particularly well, because i'm reading unixhaters guide at the moment
afb9abf8f1d2cf59…272cb95c…2022-12-05 16:30:17 <phf> space waste, superflous operations (like necessary implicit tokenization, which manifests in e.g. eating arbitrary whitespace) and the fact that you don't know the size of structures until you're done parsing them
790a55e53449596c…3449596c…2022-12-16 17:30:03 <phf> i quite like this idea, because you can standup irc deedbot on some random librenode channel, as a kind of pest outpost
d3b2ddeb7f87d1d7…7f87d1d7…2023-01-08 21:07:39 <asciilifeform> would seem that case-insensitive treatment of handles would win 0
510fd000a37798f1…5136f927…2023-01-10 23:54:54 <awt> So it turns out you can get Modafinil otc down here.
d50f588e5e83dee3…5e83dee3…2023-01-19 17:41:17 <phf> in fact jeff "invented modern firearm istruction" coopper was one such volunteer http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-04-16#1096120
5c328bbe51b57f39…3522cad9…2023-01-20 19:16:23 <phf> right, the politruk angle of course comes in because collective action, union, "going own way", etc. all "dangerous" things
b72cb8430ea737f2…553043e9…2023-01-21 02:07:17 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021387 << I think it's a fair criticism that what I think is obviously worthwhile about being alive is ambient "god created the X and it was good".
231cea8f86f0c323…09017724…2023-01-22 10:00:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 21:27:16 phf[deedbot|awt]: it's highly unlikely i'll be able to find that fonts.conf in backups, but one would start with https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=fonts-conf&sektion=5&format=html
46da013344f3c6dc…44f3c6dc…2023-01-29 00:29:44 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-28#1021616 << mmm. patriotism.
e51da3d9532fae42…d2fcbbbf…2022-11-27 23:00:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-25 23:44:37 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|crawlerbot]: it worx ok for editing a config on remote box. asciilifeform uses it (for ~20y nao) to upload items to www.
93f1951dafb9abf8…f1d2cf59…2022-12-05 16:30:58 <signpost> right, so alternative would be encountering $opcode$length$content fields for example?
302f56c0790a55e5…12dc662c…2022-12-16 17:38:43 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018632 << very much agreed re: bozo filtering. Even though I'm not the brightest, with my ~8 years of "pre-loaded context" it still took me about 2 weeks just to stand up a station and understand what it was doing at a "high-level". For a complete n00b, to be able to even grok what t
0160e88fd3b2ddeb…068ca095…2023-01-08 21:20:07 <cgra> yeah seems so. if someone sets his handle to 'Cgra' knowing 'cgra' already exists, he's a dick. but if his handle was set independently, and nets were later joined, they even aren't now 'two bobs' in the worst possible sense, either
33d2844ad50f588e…da345f73…2023-01-19 17:42:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-16 phf: i'm reading jeff cooper's the art of rifle. man was a legend, "the art of..." is a foundational book on rifle handling, but, like, landau, will be lost on somebody who's not on this track (of course one can read landau and cooper, and practice what they write, but...)
5cfc00755c328bbe…c9059c26…2023-01-20 19:25:54 <asciilifeform> for bonus lul, often enuff in current reich the mandatorily embedded snitch operates entirely overtly
a7bf7fcdbfcb3d87…bfcb3d87…2023-01-21 00:58:39 <signpost> it's not a rhetorical question. what's in there?
a718d1b8b72cb843…e346b019…2023-01-21 02:08:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 20:14:38 phf[awt|deedbot]: your chains of causality themselves would be shaped by western logic, and in whatever reasoning you're going to have a variety of confounding variables to your thinking
0190be0a231cea8f…238274e1…2023-01-22 17:09:24 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: nao if only the actually-working (i.e. w/out random crashes) emulator were even posted somewhere (afaik still not leaked)
caa9062bf2829f2e…7deea647…2023-01-26 16:59:14 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-01-26 mats: https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/01/25/3
8c75147246da0133…a5a2d549…2023-01-29 00:30:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-28 09:52:44 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-25#1021602 << i'll rant about it more, at some point, but for now i'll let clem sing to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDJEYqUPuBQ
1289dd5846da0133…46da0133…2023-01-29 01:14:10 <crtdaydreams> Lol wtf, at the very end of the vidya, General Wall quotes Mugabe as saying "Well General, you must know the teachings of Karl Marx are identical to those of Jesus Christ."
f7ca79b6e51da3d9…532fae42…2022-11-27 23:01:20 <phf> feels like one of those mp moments when he discovers that some core tool that he uses is an utter pos, loses his shit, and starts calling for lynching of the specific programmers and the programmer's in general, etc.
ef4ee93f93f1951d…afb9abf8…2022-12-05 16:32:23 <phf> you have two different approaches to packing annotated texts: inband markup and structured data encoding
b392143f302f56c0…b99d55f5…2022-12-16 17:39:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 12:27:42 asciilifeform[6]: suspects that the gymnastics of setting up station / peering w/ deedbot will be sufficient bozo filter for long time. defo need a bw brake to keep some joker from filling disks tho, at least
e407af1464a5d539…64a5d539…2023-01-10 23:55:37 <asciilifeform> not unique to cr tho (iirc most of east europe, with exception of ru)
36b78db133d2844a…d50f588e…2023-01-19 17:43:21 <phf> but anyway, back to wikipedia. finally once the perspective one is supposed to hold is established in the background section, in "belligerents" section we learn that "Despite the effect of economic and diplomatic sanctions, Rhodesia developed and maintained a powerful and professional military."
64d278b9a7bf7fcd…9e360bcd…2023-01-21 00:59:50 <phf> why live is a shortcut question for "why create, maintain, enforce etc. a particular personally meaningful approach to life in a consistent and sustained manner"
6a354186a718d1b8…b72cb843…2023-01-21 02:07:36 <signpost> however I can't see where to stand to say it's not good.
cdfa2ee30190be0a…0190be0a…2023-01-22 17:09:37 <asciilifeform> (not that it'd transform the laddelism into an actual lispm, lol)
e39324c0caa9062b…54e4694d…2023-01-26 20:15:17 <signpost> "Thus, as-is, it's not really possible to safely execute cryptographic algorithms on Linux systems that use an Intel processor with Ice Lake or later." << lol!
7f4b40f11289dd58…1289dd58…2023-01-29 01:24:47 <crtdaydreams> I literally cannot fathom how a supposed intellectual such as Mugabe could come to that conclusion.
d58cab051289dd58…3e6f24d1…2023-01-29 15:15:24 <cgra> asciilifeform, in an attempt to enumerate sources that provide hints of specific pest messages' existence i came up with a following list: 1) an other message's self-chain or net-chain, 2) prod, 3) inv, 4) station operator (say, a manual getadata), and here's the question: 5) somebody else's getdata
267b01f6878d8439…790a55e5…2022-12-16 17:38:56 <phf> i also i think !!peer and !!unpeer should be re-entrant. flips bozo bit on a record, generates new peering key for use with toilet station. so e.g. if i go on librenode and do !!peer, will get fresh peering key with deedbot only. this way if i want to bootstrap a pest connection, i zџ 1}2 ' X
e9b4c4296db488fc…6db488fc…2023-01-08 21:30:42 asciilifeform ftr is experimenting with gui display which makes 'forks' visually apparent w/out any special programmatic handling on protocol end
11947cae36b78db1…36b78db1…2023-01-19 17:49:20 <phf> there's a different wikipedia article, "1960's in rhodesia", which gives succinct timeline of things, (war started in '64) '65 "Britain imposed total economic sanctions against Rhodesia on 12 December.", '66 "The United Nations voted for selected mandatory sanctions, including oil, ƆE 5Bٟ͍ZzMymHA(b
6b4e882164d278b9…a7bf7fcd…2023-01-21 01:00:06 <signpost> *if* I want to live, I can get a lot of sane ethical notions which necessarily fall out of that as a consequence provided I try to well-define "I" and "live"
8ff384606a354186…6a354186…2023-01-21 02:34:32 <signpost> suppose I teach my kid the stories *and* I leave out entirely whether they're true.
fac66efccdfa2ee3…cdfa2ee3…2023-01-22 17:10:40 <asciilifeform> btw such lulcows are the reason why lispm keyboard is nearly unattainable nao (formerly dks sold'em for ~100$ a piece)
1c43e15ae39324c0…bb0a80e2…2023-01-26 20:33:28 <awt> Unrelatedly I recently wrote some code for work on modafinil. Was nearly rejected in review due to the complexity.
7d1ddea97f4b40f1…2e4b8980…2023-01-29 03:14:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: 'intellectuals'(tm)(r) who can't be arsed to crack a b00k are a dime a dozen, then an' nao, whatchatalkingabout
bec1fb9d7f4b40f1…7f4b40f1…2023-01-29 03:38:05 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: if you'd taken the time to understand the context you'd realise I'm still on about the Rhodesian war and that Mugabe just happens to be figurehead of the primary opposition to the Rhodesian government, so I think it quite entertaining that such nonsense could come from such a widely praised reich mouthpiece.
c7a4b1add58cab05…d58cab05…2023-01-29 15:16:48 <cgra> any objections in using an unknown hash in somebody else's getdata as a trigger to send own getdata?
9a1f257ebd6add04…bd6add04…2022-11-27 23:02:15 <phf> i'm also reading unixhaters, and there are some passages there that makes one despair not just for the field, but the humanity in general
0017c4f43044987d…3044987d…2022-12-05 16:34:24 <phf> in first case you assume that your text is in special markup format, when you encounter special characters you treat them special, and the authoring (which better be a machine) needs to ensure that the literals get encoded, the markup is valid. in this case your structure is also i h "dkʮU
6"VN~|
2b4197a4267b01f6…267b01f6…2022-12-16 17:38:56 <phf> only need my pgp key, which is right and proper zџ 1}2 ' X
d757c729e9b4c429…e9b4c429…2023-01-08 21:31:16 <asciilifeform> ... is the reason wai left'em out of the draft spec
3ab54f3d11947cae…11947cae…2023-01-19 17:49:20 <phf> against Rhodesia on 16 December", '68 "The United Nations Security Council approved comprehensive mandatory sanctions against Rhodesia through Resolution 253 on 29 May." ƆE 5Bٟ͍ZzMymHA(b
ea9d38246b4e8821…6b4e8821…2023-01-21 01:00:26 <signpost> it's the only solid ground I see in there, to proceed outward from what's unavoidable.
3b9fd867fac66efc…fac66efc…2023-01-22 17:12:02 <asciilifeform> for extra lulz, asciilifeform had 2 and gave'em away , despite having reversed the kbd and baked pc dongle for it before such a thing was published afaik anywhere
89c978131c43e15a…1c43e15a…2023-01-26 20:44:07 <awt> Had to convert a list of lines of text with varying associated indendation levels into a tree for rendering into nested divs in html.
53b824d7bec1fb9d…bec1fb9d…2023-01-29 03:38:05 <crtdaydreams> we're on the complete same page, hence the wording 'supposed'
33e12b89c7a4b1ad…7d1ddea9…2023-01-29 16:12:34 <asciilifeform> cgra: from asciilifeform's pov -- massive potential for wasted bw ( sumbody gets 1 packet from a peer of his, and entire net is nao sending futile getdata's to one anuther ?! )
394c0a949a1f257e…9a1f257e…2022-11-27 23:03:12 <phf> like the whole section of nntp hate, one the grounds that it's just gigabytes of noise. what will authors say about modern™ internet
d9151d000017c4f4…0017c4f4…2022-12-05 16:34:24 <phf> mplicitly string, and the whitespace is significant h "dkʮU
6"VN~|
cbbb3da62b4197a4…fbec64a4…2022-12-16 17:41:05 <signpost> being able to park tendrils of pestnet in other IRC networks
f592dbff2b4197a4…b1a000c6…2022-12-16 17:42:17 asciilifeform suspects that the main n00b barrier atm is the gnarliness of the proto clients, with the irc frontends
0eb007a9d757c729…0160e88f…2023-01-08 21:40:16 <cgra> asciilifeform: plz shoot screens whenever have possibly interesting samples
9ad206343ab54f3d…9c5a856a…2023-01-19 17:52:41 <asciilifeform> damn complicated pile of mystery; complete with 'dolchstoss' etc apparently
656a2b243ab54f3d…9ad20634…2023-01-19 17:54:22 <asciilifeform> also seems to support e.g. alex rosov's pov re subj -- 'they strangled rhodesia to show erryone that no, you aint allowed to build a functional, independent country from scratch, fuckyou'
c9ed47b7ea9d3824…ea9d3824…2023-01-21 01:01:05 <signpost> when the lord appears to me I'll have to reevaluate, but he wont because I'd just tell him it's my right brain re-establishing dominance over my left anyway.
9ae03d65fb302bb3…fb302bb3…2023-01-21 02:35:14 <signpost> why would this have less impact than teaching "ant and the grasshopper" etc
08a1da8c3b9fd867…3b9fd867…2023-01-22 17:13:04 <asciilifeform> ( for the innocent: the kbd aint 'clicky' and lacks arrows, and hence imho quite 'hair shirt' for use with general-purpose comp )
20729e7789c97813…e39324c0…2023-01-26 20:50:03 <signpost> that has been my experience coding on misc substances, that one has to account for their own window of acceptable thought-sprawl shrinking after use.
bd9733ac53b824d7…53b824d7…2023-01-29 03:39:01 <crtdaydreams> I just think that quote is a genuine lolcattery
27e38c03394c0a94…394c0a94…2022-11-27 23:08:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-25#1016871 << the braindamage is inherent to fish protocol,
9a50a95ad9151d00…d9151d00…2022-12-05 16:36:30 <phf> and in the second case you don't have text you always have serialization format, which you more or less deserialize into you document object structure, and it is to some extent universal rather than specific to document object structure
e32ab6f4f592dbff…2b4197a4…2022-12-16 17:43:14 <phf> maybe having it tied to wot is not a bad idea, e.g. l1 for deedbot means that you get essentially full peering no mater what, and is just a mechanism for emergency pest recovery. if you are negrated by many deedbot l1 you can't get peering no matter what. if you're "neurtral", unrated or l2 you get a regular peering key
6c31fcbd0eb007a9…d757c729…2023-01-09 00:04:24 <asciilifeform> cgra: defo will post once it loox the least bit interesting
ba0c4431656a2b24…3ab54f3d…2023-01-19 17:56:56 <phf> by the way, i thought that i mentioned it as a curio in logs, but apparently in private conversations with horse people, that oil ban is also how rhodesia had the last battle active cavalry
be245414c9ed47b7…c9ed47b7…2023-01-21 01:01:45 <signpost> phf: what's personally meaningful? drives behavior in some self-sustaining way. get's a volitional chain reaction going?
a94f95889ae03d65…9ae03d65…2023-01-21 02:36:15 <signpost> finding myself pretty comfortable with jordan peterson's inquiry into whether their taking the form of fundamental truths of reality is true enough.
857b62c808a1da8c…08a1da8c…2023-01-22 17:15:00 <asciilifeform> naodays when they appear on e.g. ebay, they sell for 2-3k$. nfi if laddel market or folx with actual lispms who somehow ended up buying a unit sans kbd
bc3025cdbd9733ac…bd9733ac…2023-01-29 11:18:18 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXJ5bZ8hq34 hits harder now
ab75326bb92b4f1e…33e12b89…2023-01-29 16:14:18 <asciilifeform> anyffin with potential for 'amplifications' aint even a 'measure 7 times, cut once' situation but 'measure over9000 times'
e469643f27e38c03…e51da3d9…2022-11-27 23:09:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-25 23:41:17 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: phf: 'fish' is a horrendous hack -- iirc pisses the file over base64, and at snail's pace (and satan help you if you have over9000 files, there's a sometimes ~1s overhead per)
a0d92f669a50a95a…9a50a95a…2022-12-05 16:37:58 <phf> something like escape codes (or the informal [BOLD]foo[/BOLD] of forums/wp) are a special case of the first
7a15b228e32ab6f4…f592dbff…2022-12-16 17:45:34 <asciilifeform> ( not to mention the ugh of '1st, get hold of the right python...' etc )
90a45f76ba0c4431…656a2b24…2023-01-19 17:57:45 asciilifeform vaguely recalls that they were the last to use classic tachanka; but not knew
2a6e71a4a94f9588…a94f9588…2023-01-21 02:37:05 <signpost> this might be what god is also, something true about reality we rendered in dreamlike terms.
ce9f9029857b62c8…857b62c8…2023-01-22 17:16:42 asciilifeform personally, if still had an 'iron' lispm other than the macivory, would rather bake ~pc to lispm~ adapter than use the orig. kbd
98f68ffdc34d5fcf…c34d5fcf…2023-01-26 20:58:08 <signpost> or you know, get good rest, think hard, write a small amount of correct code.
7d9e3bfbbc3025cd…bc3025cd…2023-02-04 01:48:21 <crtdaydreams> ^ second that, nfi where "spy balloon" nonsense origniated, but from a cursory glance anyone with a modicum of intelligence would observe that a) why worry about the bitch on the porch when there's a bear in the livingroom? and b) why not satellite imagery? lmao
8ff50ac9e469643f…27e38c03…2022-11-27 23:08:45 <phf> “#RETR /some/name Server sends line with filesize on it … then it sends binary data … Note that there's no way to abort running RETR command”
6af607cda0d92f66…93f1951d…2022-12-05 16:38:05 signpost sees that directives like ~these *are* the exception rather than rule in pest messages
5d9481777a15b228…cbbb3da6…2022-12-16 17:46:45 <signpost> probs jonsykkel's is the most n00b friendly atm
658f0b4890a45f76…ba0c4431…2023-01-19 18:06:59 <phf> oh yeah, there's a particularly spicy controversy around grey's scouts, american photo journalist ross baughman joined them to take photos, which won him a pulitzer
32c8a75e2a6e71a4…2a6e71a4…2023-01-21 02:37:47 <signpost> could also be humans eat guns/pills/plastic until there aren't those left that are unsatisfied with ^
b5af187a98f68ffd…98f68ffd…2023-01-26 20:58:15 <signpost> but most workplaces unfortunately don't reward that.
f47f60c87d9e3bfb…7d9e3bfb…2023-02-04 01:50:53 crtdaydreams recalls a public satellite imagery website where could view .hk images and naviage around, could zoom in far enough to make out peoples faces quite easily
eb9de02d0feb27ac…ab75326b…2023-01-29 16:16:59 <asciilifeform> the point of getdata is to 1) attempt to close gaps in yer chain 2) retrieve a possibly awol 'spearhead' (the prod case)
0f266c2d8ff50ac9…8ff50ac9…2022-11-27 23:09:48 <phf> which means that a copy of a 10gb file is just that, a 10737418240 followed by control message followed by 10gb worth of firehose
530157cb6af607cd…a0d92f66…2022-12-05 16:38:48 <phf> i would first decide if we're doing markup or serialization
2c24a0395d948177…5d948177…2022-12-16 17:46:51 <signpost> could get pentacle farting out a static build of that easily
072cd962658f0b48…658f0b48…2023-01-19 18:07:05 <phf> https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/j-ross-baughman
5895f6ad32c8a75e…32c8a75e…2023-01-21 02:40:00 <signpost> it'd be something like rejecting aztec mathematics on the grounds that the faces of the gods used to denote numbers don't exist.
3e6f24d1545097cc…86f0c323…2023-01-22 19:45:06 <cgra> CMU Serif font curiosity (on my machine at least): the "~" prints just below the cap line height, instead of cap line/baseline center
ea4ea55bb5af187a…f2829f2e…2023-01-26 21:18:08 <asciilifeform> (only half-jokingly) if yer using a performance dope correctly, you oughta be closer to 'sacked for charging over9000 for 6lines' than 'rejected for complexity'
0751abcaf47f60c8…f47f60c8…2023-02-04 01:53:19 <crtdaydreams> to the extent that faces etc. would be higher quality than found on e.g. passport
ba0b8158eb9de02d…eb9de02d…2023-01-29 16:17:24 <asciilifeform> both imho adequately covered by the current logic
724b08d10f266c2d…0f266c2d…2022-11-27 23:11:27 <phf> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/MidnightCommander/mc/master/src/vfs/fish/helpers/README.fish unix retardation in its pure form
223726f6530157cb…530157cb…2022-12-05 16:40:31 <phf> and they both have obvious drawbacks or cans of worm
be3286562c24a039…2c24a039…2022-12-16 17:47:09 <signpost> and iirc shinohai wrote a pbuild for blatta?
d2a85678072cd962…072cd962…2023-01-19 18:07:34 <phf> “A guerrilla prisoner waits with a rope noose around his neck shortly before white cavalry troopers in the Grey's Scouts drag him behind their cantering horses near the town of Kikidoo in western Rhodesia, 23 September 1977.
bb0a80e23e6f24d1…a66a34bc…2023-01-23 14:56:32 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021540 << Didn't realize there was an alternative to looking up the row before updating it. Some orms provide a create_or_update function but I'm not using any.
9def14e7ea4ea55b…b5af187a…2023-01-26 21:18:55 <signpost> myeah, gotta be in the habit of reading and rewriting same lines, rather than write-only
8eccb2d10751abca…45a5a2b9…2023-02-04 01:54:07 <phf> that's not the angle i'm even interested in, more like "why is this such a big deal" and "why is there no sane grown up reaction"
cb15cef70751abca…0751abca…2023-02-04 01:58:34 <crtdaydreams> can't knock it down because "Das Racist!!1111!"
1782c972ba0b8158…ba0b8158…2023-01-29 16:18:58 <asciilifeform> ( with the 1 possible exception of 'reply chains', fwiw )
7b6dc03b724b08d1…724b08d1…2022-11-27 23:39:21 <phf> so apparently it try to run a start_fish_server script, if it's available, otherwise it sends these shell snippets on each command
9b5200d9223726f6…223726f6…2022-12-05 16:42:59 <phf> modern™ protocols use serialization, but that's because they stick everything into their serialization format, and that's how they have message types to begin with
c53a92d3be328656…be328656…2022-12-16 17:47:31 signpost needs to fart the pentacle site out soon too, but will do this deedbot noob-outpost thing first
67290432bb0a80e2…231cea8f…2023-01-23 14:57:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 22:07:11 asciilifeform[5]: ( was this wai awt had, in blatta, a query to find the existing row..? )
361cdf988eccb2d1…8eccb2d1…2023-02-04 01:54:57 <phf> 1950s solution, announce that it's a weather balloon, immediately mount a televised recovery operation, have spooks look over it on a tight schedule, have a pr transfer of the balloon the chinese event, "our slanty eyed best partners seem to have lost their toy, we give it back, to uM)PK_$ieҳMVO7
bfefd86f1782c972…1782c972…2023-01-29 16:20:27 <asciilifeform> come to think of it, even the latter oughta be covered by selfchain and not need special case.
3a92fcb77b6dc03b…7b6dc03b…2022-11-27 23:40:03 <phf> actually it sends shell snippets every time, but fish server, if it's there and it runs, is supposed to ignore them
756711ec9b5200d9…9b5200d9…2022-12-05 16:44:30 <phf> or as ascii said "sexps all the way", (mediamessage :filename "foo" :annotation (span "here's " (b "your") " file") :hash 123)
8583134fc53a92d3…e32ab6f4…2022-12-16 17:48:03 <phf> "our ease of use strategy is to tie it to a custom hardcore linux build!", strong symbolics vibes
a58aafb807b8f4b4…07b8f4b4…2023-01-19 18:08:08 <phf> “While interrogating prisoners at gunpoint, a white soldier makes suspected guerrillas hold a stress position for over an hour in the midday heat of the Kalahari desert on Rhodesia's western border with Botswana, 21 September 1977.”
06d09e483ede190d…e017e89d…2023-01-21 02:52:07 asciilifeform entirely satisfied with, e.g., 'allfather odin said: die not the straw death' w/out requiring the character to actually exist & answer prayers etc
51ce9f95361cdf98…361cdf98…2023-02-04 01:54:57 <phf> bright future!" everyone drinks champagne and smiles uM)PK_$ieҳMVO7
6a52985572f8f42f…94df88a5…2023-02-04 01:59:52 <phf> signpost, in an obviously public event like that one ought to signal an intent, whatever the strategy is
050df03672f8f42f…8df8e19b…2023-02-04 01:59:54 <signpost> sadder answer would be that biden's crackhead son relayed a threat from the chicoms.
91e1629e72f8f42f…214ad614…2023-02-04 02:00:00 asciilifeform pictures that there's likely a usg 'golden toilet' wunderwaffe designed to steal balloons, but not actually worx, and officials scheming to blame one anuther
cdba5991bfefd86f…0feb27ac…2023-01-29 16:26:56 <cgra> asciilifeform, perhaps another footnote to consider being added to spec, that 'why resist the urge of requesting an unknown want-hash'
b7d4a78e3a92fcb7…3a92fcb7…2022-11-27 23:40:48 <phf> of course there's no start_fish_server or anything remotely resembling a server (or anything online either) in the mc package
973d99f6756711ec…756711ec…2022-12-05 16:46:53 <phf> but you can put the same datastructure into something like bencode (or the whole can of worms ASN.1, hipster buffers, whatever), and get a much more compact, faster to parse on the wire object
72c9fa7b8583134f…c53a92d3…2022-12-16 17:48:35 <signpost> naw I'll sign a static bin and they can curl2sudo like they usually do!
128e7276a58aafb8…a58aafb8…2023-01-19 18:13:17 <phf> but then you research it further, and there's "debate" around the photos, on account (and i'll just quote wp)
fd14e4f506d09e48…06d09e48…2023-01-21 02:53:00 <asciilifeform> for that matter, the believers themselves had rather complicated relationship with his existence (given the 'death of the gods' story, where universe reverts to frozen nuffin)
e4830220e8e85844…e8e85844…2023-01-28 14:51:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-25#1021602 << i'll rant about it more, at some point, but for now i'll let clem sing to it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDJEYqUPuBQ
f7a5f4a751ce9f95…51ce9f95…2023-02-04 01:55:36 <phf> 2023 zoomer solution "ugh awkward ugh we're monitoring *shuffles awkwardly around*"
29f24c3751ce9f95…cb5b7b75…2023-02-04 01:56:40 <signpost> phf: I saw earlier that chinese state media of some kind was laughing at us being unable to control our airspace, but failed to find it a second time
5887e3b96a529855…050df036…2023-02-04 02:00:17 <signpost> and then he made up a reason to order no action.
581a4b5ecdba5991…bfefd86f…2023-01-29 17:27:00 <asciilifeform> cgra: not that asciilifeform is opposed to making such a note, but if also went & made a similar note re: erry possible footshot he could think of , spec would be over9000 pgs and take anuther 20yrs to finish...
bf904612b7d4a78e…b7d4a78e…2022-11-28 00:04:20 <phf> https://midnight-commander.org/ticket/4232 …and the punchline
2ff63341973d99f6…6af607cd…2022-12-05 16:48:36 <signpost> does having outer structure (the serialization case) thwart display of partial multi-chunk messages? (and do we care?)
c016da807b4abd42…90f74a13…2022-12-16 17:49:04 <signpost> but hey the thing's hermetic, so the hardcore linux would probably build on their turd
eb4d1805128e7276…128e7276…2023-01-19 18:13:27 <phf> “n order to accompany the Scouts, Baughman had to prove he could ride a horse and was required to carry a weapon and wear an Army uniform, thus making himself indistinguishable from the troops. In addition, he presented himself as sympathetic to the aims of the Rhodesian government and military.”
e613b135fd14e4f5…fd14e4f5…2023-01-21 02:55:39 <asciilifeform> (fwiw there may've been other mythologies which specified birth ~and death~ of the gods, and left the temporal relationship of the present to subj unspecified -- but asciilifeform not seen'em)
a5a2d549e4830220…67290432…2023-01-28 14:52:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-25 23:53:19 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: phf: I'd quite like to hear more about Rhodesia, currently filling in blanks and conglomerating sources and key ideas. Currently watching this interview, which only serves to raise more questions than it answe
cb5b7b75f7a5f4a7…0c6f8597…2023-02-04 01:55:39 <signpost> yeah, the lack of theatric message-sending is bizarre.
3379610629f24c37…10766baa…2023-02-04 01:56:50 <asciilifeform> balloons aint obsolete, 'cheap & angry' if conspicuous snoop camera
9838221f5887e3b9…5887e3b9…2023-02-04 02:00:46 <signpost> mil could be internally wtf-ing at grandpa's order.
086576e4c16cbce8…8d7e46a9…2023-02-04 02:09:36 <phf> somehow in my world view chinese lost a balloon, "weather balloon" for diplomatic purposes, would've been mildly embarrassed but u.s. saved them face by being even more awkward and incompetent at diplomacy
ebd4c295581a4b5e…581a4b5e…2023-01-29 17:28:26 <asciilifeform> maybe after spec is done (or at 'liquid helium' kelvin version, at any rate) could write a 'rationale' to go with it, like the ada people
b02a0475bf904612…bf904612…2022-11-28 00:04:30 <phf> “Let's forget about the compatibility with FISH command formats. Let's just send shell scripts with arguments that are convenient for us to the remote host and get results of script work. The part of FISH protocol relative to remote host answers will be used as is.
7fe295e42ff63341…973d99f6…2022-12-05 16:49:06 <phf> which is your difference between e.g. jabber where it's all xml <mediamessage filename="foo" hash="123"><annotation>here's <b>your</b> file</mediamessage> versus something like telegram, where they have in house binary serialization format
8c5f5298c016da80…7b4abd42…2022-12-16 17:49:15 asciilifeform ftr not averse to 'gui client with interface of 'slack' or aol etc' if someone magicked such into existence
eba8e0e7eb4d1805…eb4d1805…2023-01-19 18:13:41 <phf> “AP General Manager Keith Fuller expressed doubts about Baughman's methods of acquiring them. Enough speculation was raised that the photographs were withdrawn from consideration for the Robert Capa Gold Medal Award of the Overseas Press Club after the Club's Annual Awards Committee meeting in February 1978.”
6d7030e0e613b135…0db35c22…2023-01-21 02:57:26 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021390 << ah. I'm not claiming universal shoulds exist in my skull, nor do I suppose they can ever be reinstantiated.
956b9a019134a078…d16c5a58…2023-01-25 01:41:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, Romania - peers: 83 - last probed: 6m ago
6445116333796106…33796106…2023-02-04 01:57:18 <asciilifeform> Official excuse for not popping it, apparently: 'could cause property damage on the ground' lol
b99648009838221f…9838221f…2023-02-04 02:01:41 <signpost> not claiming certainty, but any answer suggests woeful unpreparedness for war.
855b9998086576e4…b9964800…2023-02-04 02:12:02 <signpost> chatter says the thing flew over a lot of air force bases.
303fb64b6e80ebbe…91e1629e…2023-02-04 03:20:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022390 << bluetooth/wifi from 24e3 km is a bit lul imho
b40283b17fe295e4…7fe295e4…2022-12-05 16:50:55 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017439 << i guess it depends on where you place your layer boundaries
ed1389ce8c5f5298…8c5f5298…2022-12-16 17:50:13 <asciilifeform> ideally static build (to the extent $platform allows such at all) w/ no deps
d8fd31d0eba8e0e7…eba8e0e7…2023-01-19 18:13:48 <phf> “When the same photos won the Pulitzer only weeks later several members of the Overseas Press Club jury apologized for their decision, stating that lack of information about the circumstances under which the photos were taken led them to their conclusion.”
270aaccb6d7030e0…a718d1b8…2023-01-21 02:58:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 20:18:52 phf[deedbot|awt]: i don't even think that you can extract some kind of personal principles out of it, because they will fully depend on your environment also. like if you do that exercise from a safety of texan homestead as opposed to doing same exercise but you suddenly found yourself in east
d036c9d0956b9a01…956b9a01…2023-01-25 01:41:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, United States - peers: 79 - last probed: 6m ago
7ff1e199303fb64b…103b1cb6…2023-02-04 03:21:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 20:59:16 signpost: wifi, bluetooth, etc for exploitation
2d8757b6488dd61e…45cd5759…2023-02-05 06:49:00 <asciilifeform> awt: didn't he die recently ( or merely lost privkey? i fughet )
0aa9ce1e488dd61e…488dd61e…2023-02-05 07:46:24 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-05#1022425 << lost privkey which resulted roughly in the loss of 6e2 btc iirc
107baec25fc69b37…5fc69b37…2023-01-29 17:29:10 <asciilifeform> for nao, the logs, with threads like this one, will have to suffice.
2706efb6b40283b1…8c24eedd…2022-12-05 16:52:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 11:49:41 signpost: does having outer structure (the serialization case) thwart display of partial multi-chunk messages? (and do we care?)
a6d060c4ed1389ce…ed1389ce…2022-12-16 17:50:41 <asciilifeform> ( on crapple, asciilifeform knows static linking to be irrecoverably broken; errywhere else -- still possible )
78751916d8fd31d0…d8fd31d0…2023-01-19 18:21:56 <phf> i can't comment on it any further, because i don't have necessary research done yet. the `photos are authentic` camp argues that baughman acted the role, so greys let him photograph their war atrocities. the `photos are fake` argue that baugman egged greys on into idiotic shenanigans.
f4f8fe07270aaccb…6d7030e0…2023-01-21 02:57:47 <signpost> I may be so disagreeable in character that this does not seem like a problem. in Ukraine I'd try to not get dead, and probably get dead.
e8c1c00ed036c9d0…d036c9d0…2023-01-25 01:41:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=773455, v=70001, United States - peers: 72 - last probed: 6m ago
94df88a5467a5a1b…2add3f70…2023-02-04 01:57:37 <phf> the lack of any kind of sane grown up reaction is bizarre. i mean predictable, but that's like the ultimate failure of "hello yes hello" sanity check on there being present any kind of intelligence in the decision making aparatus
06d915d54902e8b3…4902e8b3…2023-02-04 02:12:51 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3iFJpGJiug << e.g.
24bb8c2a2d8757b6…2d8757b6…2023-02-05 06:53:46 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: from photo, loox like it was ~level with the jet firing ($maxint, lol) rocket. likely 'had to wait until over ocean' was simply cover for 'we dun have anyffin that will reliably pop it at specced altitude', i.e. had to wait until started to deflate on its own
8088c17f0aa9ce1e…7ff1e199…2023-02-05 07:47:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-05 01:50:14 asciilifeform[4]: awt: didn't he die recently ( or merely lost privkey? i fughet )
1b54eac4107baec2…107baec2…2023-01-29 17:32:45 <asciilifeform> there are prolly over9000 mis-optimizations one could make in pest that would ultimately make it unusable or impractical bordering on unusable (a la 'gnutella', say)
769517ba77f6a67a…77f6a67a…2022-11-28 00:31:46 <phf> this is utter trash, because even for a simple connection, during handshake, at baseline, mc sends a shell command, that doesn't have corresponding fish annotation
dfd4066c2706efb6…b40283b1…2022-12-05 16:51:52 <phf> in our case the ship has sailed, so to speak, the outer container, is binary format, with its own rules of reassembling the content, so your preferred strategy is: reassemble the multi-chunk, then deserialize the whole payload
7146ca72a6d060c4…a6d060c4…2022-12-16 17:51:50 asciilifeform not optimistic about own approach to gui , needs over9000 time even for elementary functionality, which asciilifeform not presently has.
ec4c4da478751916…78751916…2023-01-19 18:24:41 <phf> wherever the subject is mentioned online, particularly with the "photos are fake" take, baugman appears and argues his point. his core argument seems to be that sgt bruce moore-king published a biography "white man black war" (self-published in south africa, was a bitch to get, and o<T 3p& ɾ֣gUȫ@:
581480e7f4f8fe07…f4f8fe07…2023-01-21 02:57:57 <signpost> in Texas I'll fart around on a laptop with a glass of wine
d33aebcfe8c1c00e…e8c1c00e…2023-01-25 01:41:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=773362, v=99999, Canada - peers: 65 - last probed: 6m ago
8d2e0cd3b6de25a8…b6de25a8…2023-01-28 20:09:31 <asciilifeform> phf: unrelatedly, iirc you did time as a crapplist, do you know of good sources re: their gui api? ( asciilifeform has been lately banging head against bugs in wx backend on that platform )
8df8e19b94df88a5…1ef5b3dd…2023-02-04 01:57:59 <signpost> maybe they want to dump it in the ocean and recover
214ad6141ef5b3dd…64451163…2023-02-04 01:58:11 <asciilifeform> hard to imagine wai else to bake such a large one if not to carry luxurious antennae
d47fc1fa7fdd2614…3befe46b…2023-02-04 03:33:14 <signpost> lol, I somehow pasted the spaceballs thing again.
ec4b3d2f24bb8c2a…0e6ad541…2023-02-07 17:51:11 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022444 << 'unchecked' will go once decided whether/how to handle migration of current blatta db data
85f2c82af4aaa360…f4aaa360…2023-02-05 07:50:22 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-05#1022426 << lol! in the process likely fritzed anything of worth (still assuming one buys "spy balloon" narrative)
e5d6572d1b54eac4…1b54eac4…2023-01-29 17:33:19 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's concern re protocol atm is to determine whether he ~already~ made such a footshot.
5f8b34a7769517ba…769517ba…2022-11-28 00:31:48 <phf> LANG=C LC_ALL=C LC_TIME=C; export LANG LC_ALL LC_TIME;
0e866f53dfd4066c…dfd4066c…2022-12-05 16:57:53 <phf> you technically have the same problem with markup, i don't think it matters: if you have <p>fooo <b>qux</> buzz</> and your split is in qux, you necessarily either wait for the whole thing to reassemble, or you have some splitting conventions <p>fooo <b>q</></> and <p><b>ux</> buz /F};8B e-] 5v{
ce9d0b477146ca72…7146ca72…2022-12-16 17:52:04 <asciilifeform> but ideally 1 codebase, if at all possible, rather than N
8480ed6bec4c4da4…ec4c4da4…2023-01-19 18:24:41 <phf> i haven't gotten to it yet), where he corraborates baugman's story o<T 3p& ɾ֣gUȫ@:
4abe1661581480e7…581480e7…2023-01-21 02:59:13 <signpost> and the inability to reinstantiate the transcendent axiom might be a catastrophic blow. since I have no alternatives, I poke around in my own meat and in my humble interface with reality for what moves the sails.
9f38489bd33aebcf…d33aebcf…2023-01-25 01:41:39 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=773455, v=88888, France - peers: 61 - last probed: 6m ago
daff06fa8d2e0cd3…8d2e0cd3…2023-01-28 20:10:01 asciilifeform working from 'cocoa developers guide', reasonably complete -- but circa 2010
d1b8977d90405b98…90405b98…2023-02-04 02:13:33 <signpost> I think they scanned our MSFT-running trash.
d98a6488d47fc1fa…d47fc1fa…2023-02-04 03:33:43 <signpost> link was meant to be a senator twisting his nipples about whiteman base
3d99f802ec4b3d2f…34a35f5c…2023-02-07 17:52:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 10:11:39 asciilifeform[4]: cgra: asciilifeform not had time to carefully read whole thing yet, but one immed. q: wai does 'malformed' have 'unchecked' option? ( check'em before they go in db, seems obv )
bcad9b7285f2c82a…8088c17f…2023-02-05 07:51:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-05 01:55:01 asciilifeform[5]: crtdaydreams: from photo, loox like it was ~level with the jet firing ($maxint, lol) rocket. likely 'had to wait until over ocean' was simply cover for 'we dun have anyffin that will reliably pop it at specced altitude', i.e. had to wait until started to deflate on its own
486a1a0385f2c82a…85f2c82a…2023-02-05 07:55:14 <crtdaydreams> in other lulz joe rogan and jordan peterson discuss imageboard moderators (audio deepfake)
235500ae5f8b34a7…ac1c2c82…2022-11-28 00:31:52 <asciilifeform> phf: precisely as summarized by asciilifeform neh
48a98bdc0e866f53…0e866f53…2022-12-05 16:57:53 <phf> z</>, but how do you know to merge the p's. /F};8B e-] 5v{
3cfe6332ce9d0b47…c016da80…2022-12-16 17:53:02 signpost not ironically proposing that whatever deps get pulled into pentacle as vpatches
99b0a31e8480ed6b…8480ed6b…2023-01-19 18:26:42 <phf> the counter argument seems to be that at least two other published accounts, including by this guy https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/8037600/Chris-Munnion.html
755a69454abe1661…0ea737f2…2023-01-21 03:06:18 <phf> signpost, transcendental beliefs are, and i can't remember the right word right now, all encompasing, that is they represent the totality of experience
ca1594599f38489b…9f38489b…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, United States - peers: 53 - last probed: 6m ago
2e4b8980daff06fa…daff06fa…2023-01-28 20:10:22 <asciilifeform> ... and somehow nuffin newer seems to exist
cfc89281d1b8977d…086576e4…2023-02-04 02:16:42 <phf> is it being piloted by one hide ping sam, the infamous ghost of beijing?
a61fd0843d99f802…ec4b3d2f…2023-02-07 17:52:25 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022445 << thought i'd let the current sketch out before properly trying to wrap head around how to migrate
7396694026fed4f5…8c751472…2023-01-29 17:36:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:25:46 asciilifeform[6]: phf: i'm inclined to agree, i.e. 'let's have jpgs in chain, but Use Moderately' but plagued by suspicion that even very light use of it will be very painfully heavy for even a small pestnet with well-behaved inhabitants
9c473943235500ae…e469643f…2022-11-28 00:32:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-25 23:45:28 asciilifeform[4]: prolly could be made faster, but not easily (iirc it uploads a shell turd that decodes the text piss errytime)
ea092fcf48a98bdc…48a98bdc…2022-12-05 17:16:41 <phf> naggum has /a lot/ on the subject, i started re-reading some of it, https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3250033735497397@naggum.no.html
e9ffeda63cfe6332…3cfe6332…2022-12-16 17:53:14 <signpost> lot of the gruntwork of reliable builds of ??? is done
c2fe828199b0a31e…99b0a31e…2023-01-19 18:28:36 <phf> christopher munnion of "the telegraph" called "banana sunday"
cabdfc27ca159459…ca159459…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.225.16.153-8333 ][185.225.16.153] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, Romania - peers: 35 - last probed: 5m ago
3befe46bcfc89281…d1b8977d…2023-02-04 02:18:19 <signpost> poor guy's instructed to jump out in the atlantic and start drinking.
615b505cc5ed2356…c5ed2356…2023-02-04 18:23:01 <signpost> lol, they're going to "maybe" shoot the fucking thing down over the atlantic.
38143b7ca61fd084…3d99f802…2023-02-07 17:53:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 10:26:20 awt: cgra: Why not do this change with a migration? There's a lib included and some pre-existing migrations.
07b422eb89414135…89414135…2023-02-05 09:42:55 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-15#1020397 << pret good so far
8d2fbcfd73966940…26fed4f5…2023-01-29 17:36:09 <asciilifeform> the ancients were not immune. early arpa, for instance, had to be manually rebooted on at least 1 occasion on acct of packet storm.
1bba16409c473943…5f8b34a7…2022-11-28 00:32:45 <phf> asciilifeform, not even like that, because your summary is more similar to how emacs tramp does it: upload a perl script, and then let interactions all go over perl
abfa2c0cea092fcf…ea092fcf…2022-12-05 17:17:51 <phf> there are some useful points there, which apply immediately to what we are discussing. “SGML is a good idea when the markup overhead is less than 2%.” is a good one
9cfe494fe9ffeda6…ce9d0b47…2022-12-16 17:53:28 asciilifeform had begun, some time ago, an ada pestronics proto, but paused, aiming to polish off new spec
078d913bc2fe8281…c2fe8281…2023-01-19 18:29:58 <phf> and the autobiography of major mike williams, who was an american commander in one of the grey's scouts squadrons
e07817a25c2e28e3…5c2e28e3…2023-01-21 03:08:00 <phf> so like they accomodate/have something for both people like josemaria escriva, a normy, a tramp, a criminal, etc.
21372ce7cabdfc27…cabdfc27…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 33 - last probed: 6m ago
0dae1a14615b505c…7fdd2614…2023-02-04 20:38:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: wainot n days ago over pacific (but prolly obv answr)
081e0b3638143b7c…a61fd084…2023-02-07 17:54:52 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022446 << yeah, this >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022452
ef54707207b422eb…bcad9b72…2023-02-05 09:44:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-15 10:24:28 awt[jonsykkel|deedbot]: Recommended reading: Blood Meridian.
55f4489d8d2fbcfd…8d2fbcfd…2023-01-29 17:36:54 <asciilifeform> this was survivable because there was only $smallint # of stations and the operators had working telephones and knew one another.
c5cec632abfa2c0c…abfa2c0c…2022-12-05 17:19:16 <phf> from this perspective when you choose general purpose structure data encoding, your messages immediately pay the price. so all the text becomes at least "foobar", if not (p "foobar")
bca95e319cfe494f…e9ffeda6…2022-12-16 17:53:29 signpost considers the thing a build env rather than linux distro atm
e3d64d67078d913b…078d913b…2023-01-19 18:30:48 <phf> put some kind of shade on baugman, the nature of which i haven't discovered yet, because i haven't gotten to those books either
20b1eba1e07817a2…e07817a2…2023-01-21 03:08:46 <phf> so like when gotcha people say "oh you saying you're only good because sky daddy told you so", the answer is "fuck off"
d8bb66c621372ce7…21372ce7…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, United States - peers: 18 - last probed: 6m ago
45cd57590dae1a14…0dae1a14…2023-02-04 20:38:33 <asciilifeform> just how much paperwork in usg to pop a balloon?
9b00bfaa081e0b36…38143b7c…2023-02-07 17:56:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 10:28:05 awt: cgra: why store getdata requests (sent/received)?
d0fb60ecef547072…49c857a2…2023-02-05 15:28:41 <awt> crtdaydreams: excellent. If you like it you might also like something else I just read which is Plutarch's chapter on Alcibiades. Hilarious.
6be41e154fbdd50a…4fbdd50a…2023-02-06 09:44:51 <crtdaydreams> I feel like I'm missing out reading a translation.
6b3cd2e055f4489d…55f4489d…2023-01-29 17:38:25 <asciilifeform> and they had a strong interest in making the thing stand up.
adbbc22ef9d08957…1bba1640…2022-11-28 00:33:20 <phf> not the case here. instead it supposed to send #CMD ARGS\ncmd equivalent raw shell code\n
74115cd3c5cec632…c5cec632…2022-12-05 17:23:33 <phf> i think naggum's idea of a markup is something like <p hello <b world> this is a bracket: \>. >
be2ae487bca95e31…9cfe494f…2022-12-16 17:55:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: staticity is rather inescapably key to 'gui pestron'. e.g.: if one were to use 'qt', then gotta pick ~which~, and qt4 won't build on 'modern' shitlinuxen, while qt5 pulls in gtk3 which banned in dulapgentoo & friends because dbus etc
55136e7fe3d64d67…90a45f76…2023-01-19 18:33:34 <asciilifeform> lulzy photos, distinct 'white helmets'(tm) flavour
9249353620b1eba1…20b1eba1…2023-01-21 03:09:30 <phf> because i might be an asshole who's afraid of hell, or i might be a genuine article catholic priest struggling with the way my whole life, but there's full range coverage
6522a6d0d8bb66c6…d8bb66c6…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=773026, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 18 - last probed: 6m ago
49c857a245cd5759…caeefe5e…2023-02-05 01:50:59 <awt> https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1622024046526201856?s=20&t=y_NmkeJLJR-DYa1vLkgbJg
deb97c139b00bfaa…9b00bfaa…2023-02-07 17:56:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 12:29:45 awt: asciilifeform: yes with resets in mind then memory only is not acceptable.
e98f7d436be41e15…d0fb60ec…2023-02-06 15:58:40 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/ << I am not getting this reference: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-06#1022437
0744cca16be41e15…6be41e15…2023-02-07 10:12:09 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-06#1022439 << see footnote 1
c2a4983e6b3cd2e0…6b3cd2e0…2023-01-29 17:40:31 <asciilifeform> whereas if, hypothetically, next yr there is a pestnet with 400 people, and someone discovers 'magick packet' that floods it to the point of unusability, even after 'fix', 395 of'em will go back to 'telegram' or whatever and that'll be it.
3c4850febe2ae487…be2ae487…2022-12-16 17:55:58 <asciilifeform> if want crapple gui, then needs either qt, or raw x11ism, or sumbody who actually knows how to crapple gui 'natively'
bac3e85d55136e7f…e3d64d67…2023-01-19 18:34:09 <phf> i do know though that when moore-king published his "white man black war" in 1989 he was politically active in mugabe's zimbabwe, and it's not an autobiography (as the preface indicates), but rather short stories inspired by his experience.
62418ef792493536…92493536…2023-01-21 03:10:21 <phf> and there's a circular dependency graph, a criminal who found the way because of fear, sustains to some extent a saint, who found his way through inner struggle
a42bd8626522a6d0…6522a6d0…2023-01-25 01:41:40 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=773010, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 6m ago
e40f8038deb97c13…081e0b36…2023-02-07 18:00:11 <cgra> awt, omitted from sketch, but likely included in db as is are tables: at, wot, handles, keys, knobs. unsure about chain tables
bb8e2fade98f7d43…ef547072…2023-02-06 15:59:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-06 04:39:58 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: awt: κόραξ καί κόλαξ lol
34a35f5c0744cca1…bb8e2fad…2023-02-07 10:13:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-06 10:59:59 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/ << I am not getting this reference: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-06#1022437
31b44f640744cca1…0744cca1…2023-02-12 08:15:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1023004 << Would suck to be prepping for the nuclear dystopia only to end up with the cyberpunk one lmao
104b7020c2a4983e…9def14e7…2023-01-29 17:41:26 <signpost> world's looking like fragmented internet with intermittent access may be in our near future, too.
34c59169775ce3f5…adbbc22e…2022-11-28 00:34:23 <phf> e.g. https://github.com/MidnightCommander/mc/blob/master/src/vfs/fish/helpers/ls
4e38e1f1c0757711…d990bb3b…2022-12-05 17:24:52 asciilifeform likes sexpr not simply because familiar but a) writable by hand b) easily readable with naked eye c) not imposes idiotic superfluous terminating tags, as html does
4dd29ae03c4850fe…3c4850fe…2022-12-16 17:56:23 <asciilifeform> ( or -- for completeness -- phf's tk thing, which seemed to work on crapple, but apparently not elsewhere )
1cfe6e68bac3e85d…bac3e85d…2023-01-19 18:35:25 <phf> asciilifeform, well, i found the parallels between recent "white border guards whipping haitian immigrants" photos and baugman's noose photo to be particularly on point :>
8b064eb962418ef7…62418ef7…2023-01-21 03:11:07 <phf> now, the trick with "replace god with X" is to find a similar kind of coverage, because the more people are uncovered the worse your overal situation is
3c3fe8e0a42bd862…a42bd862…2023-01-25 01:41:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=773454, v=99999, United States - peers: 5 - last probed: 6m ago
68f40a72e40f8038…e40f8038…2023-02-07 18:13:14 <cgra> also, the theme of logging (too) much stuff into organized db is to have an accessible station log to study, until 'correct' boundaries are found/decided. i'd probably propose an address cast logging later, too
0e6ad54134a35f5c…e5e12866…2023-02-07 10:34:41 <cgra> i'm sketching a 0xfa/gui blatta db. can asciilifeform, awt, or any other pest commentator find any dumb in it?
188f2bda31b44f64…4d1634b2…2023-02-12 08:16:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 18:33:47 phf[jonsykkel]: and i don't have a book on gunsmithing, what do`. that is whether or not that preparing for such an eventuality is a legitimate activity
28596b5634c59169…34c59169…2022-11-28 00:34:52 <phf> so it's a fish command "#LIST /${FISH_DIR}" followed by a script with all the shit inlined
4d74d8b54e38e1f1…4e38e1f1…2022-12-05 17:25:38 asciilifeform if never again has to write by hand <b>foo</b>, won't be soon enuff
59645ef24dd29ae0…bca95e31…2022-12-16 17:56:34 <signpost> would rec just putting a sane interface at that layer as firewall between the clean station impl and the gui hairball
d7e8a3801cfe6e68…55136e7f…2023-01-19 18:38:15 asciilifeform thought 'long ameri-tradition, recall 'short shrift for german spy' staged photo in ww1' , tried to pull it outta google 'images' -- lol, vanished, 'unhappened'
f08fe1f88b064eb9…8b064eb9…2023-01-21 03:12:13 <phf> the most obvious issue with bible as fables, or with fables in general is "fuck off, dad, i'm doing onlyfans"
9fa66d723c3fe8e0…3c3fe8e0…2023-01-25 01:41:41 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=773455, v=99999, United States - peers: 1 - last probed: 6m ago
87193cc268f40a72…e0a3992a…2023-02-07 18:55:16 <asciilifeform> cgra: fwiw asciilifeform has no plans to migrate anyffin other than keys from blatta db ( wainot let station sync from net the proper way ? )
13f513670e6ad541…24bb8c2a…2023-02-07 15:10:24 <asciilifeform> cgra: asciilifeform not had time to carefully read whole thing yet, but one immed. q: wai does 'malformed' have 'unchecked' option? ( check'em before they go in db, seems obv )
e743e2b0f22c7f5c…d7cf31d9…2023-02-12 15:56:05 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022796 << having a hard time figuring out what to work on next. I was thinking about implementing rekeying. Not very exciting, like the gui work, but something I can get done in a reasonable amount of time. Some things I've spent a few cycles on recently include: attempting to get
cdcc966fc720dfa6…c2a4983e…2023-01-29 17:42:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: in particular, the part where 'hypothetically work via radio' and 'not rely on ip carrier' imho.
e23bb6824d74d8b5…c0757711…2022-12-05 17:25:42 <phf> i use a civilized language, don't need to "write by hand" :>
34064a5259645ef2…4dd29ae0…2022-12-16 17:56:47 <asciilifeform> for mswin, nfi what even needed ( qt worx, or , again, sumbody who knows how to microshit-gui )
462a0776d7e8a380…d7e8a380…2023-01-19 18:38:36 <asciilifeform> no moar than 2-3 yrs ago, was findable
41d149789fa66d72…9aa4067f…2023-01-25 17:55:28 <signpost> the theater playing out re: sending tanks to ukraine is hilarious.
e29871ef87193cc2…68f40a72…2023-02-07 19:38:51 <cgra> asciilifeform, i suppose at minimum you'd want your own dm chains' head hashes, to sync own dm chains from peers. though, is 'syncing own dm messages from peer' by the spec?
b0b6739b13f51367…e98f7d43…2023-02-07 15:25:06 <awt> cgra: Why not do this change with a migration? There's a lib included and some pre-existing migrations.
1baf21ece743e2b0…e743e2b0…2023-02-12 15:56:05 <awt> blatta working in python 3.x and exploring making a discord bridge module/bot.
8dd1b929e743e2b0…188f2bda…2023-02-12 15:57:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 11:05:59 phf[awt|deedbot]: of course the main problem though is that blatta is a on backburner, so an iteration cycle on issues like that, that need to be explored and tuned, counts in weeks if not months.
ae118d4ecdcc966f…c720dfa6…2023-01-29 17:42:54 <signpost> yep. not that anyone's owed, but the time for your item's coming, I think.
c8265be1e23bb682…4d74d8b5…2022-12-05 17:26:12 <asciilifeform> rright but prolly for rather long time can expect pestrons to eat input by hand
75c7a9be34064a52…59645ef2…2022-12-16 17:56:56 <signpost> as far as the UIs are concerned, there's this thing emitting updates about a tree it cares about.
f0e209e534064a52…34064a52…2022-12-16 17:57:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: or. tho promises to be over9000x complicated
3756e6b8462a0776…1cfe6e68…2023-01-19 18:39:15 <phf> jury should disregard the following statement, but i also found it interesting that baugman's first big project was an investigative series called "nazis in america", and that baugman spent last decade giving lectures "ethics in journalism". that last one is particularly a chef's kiss
9a91f55a3873f585…4abe1661…2023-01-21 03:16:10 <signpost> path out of the corpse of god might involve a hell of a lot of death filtering away these.
9eb5df5241d14978…41d14978…2023-01-25 17:56:28 <signpost> what are these big, slow objects that are useless without air cover, and even then inferior to helicopters, let alone hypersonic missiles, supposed to achieve?
e8a81af5e29871ef…e29871ef…2023-02-07 19:39:40 <cgra> in theory, also dm history of former peers comes to mind, but prolly none seen on this net so far?
687bb9d1b0b6739b…b0b6739b…2023-02-07 15:26:51 <awt> cgra: why store getdata requests (sent/received)?
e72002bd8dd1b929…acffd674…2023-02-12 16:19:17 <signpost> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-12#1023113 << imho this is a good idea. build normie bridges. try the low barrier to entry thing this time, why not.
5a0744f6ae118d4e…cdcc966f…2023-01-29 17:43:45 <asciilifeform> ideally would at least demonstrate that it is ~possible~ before actually needed.
2a64e6173756e6b8…462a0776…2023-01-19 18:42:09 asciilifeform when thinks about 'pulitzer-winning photos' thinks about exactly these always
7f7c82169eb5df52…9eb5df52…2023-01-25 17:56:57 <signpost> rendering ukr into a failed state, moving defense inventory, and keeping ukr from dumping political dirt on "allies", I suppose?
c4e7ebdbe8a81af5…e8a81af5…2023-02-07 19:43:42 <cgra> hmm, and perhaps an interesting test to compare a list of net message hashes of a long-time high-uptime station with, say, my station's (new station)
72ceb72f687bb9d1…13f51367…2023-02-07 16:09:04 <asciilifeform> awt: how will you know when to ignore timestamp if you dun store requested hashes ?
bed67bf2e72002bd…29366585…2023-02-12 16:19:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 10:56:10 awt[cgra]: blatta working in python 3.x and exploring making a discord bridge module/bot.
ddd1f3d65a0744f6…5a0744f6…2023-01-29 17:43:59 <asciilifeform> as in the old proverb re inventing the parachute on one's way down from empire state building.
8a926c5ba0e6a54e…775ce3f5…2022-11-28 00:36:04 <asciilifeform> pretty disgusting, but interestingly does work 100% even with embedded toystore boxen (e.g. 'pogo' with asciilifeform's 5MB incl. trb hand-sewn linux etc)
7ff6c74fc83e37d3…f0e209e5…2022-12-16 17:58:51 <asciilifeform> in practice, not so easy to split off the gui. e.g. you want a search box for station's logs. and results come from db. how to format'em depends heavily on the guitron
ac2e3cf83fbbeb43…3fbbeb43…2023-01-21 03:16:55 <signpost> this isn't me giving a tough-guy speech. don't see another option on the table.
abaaf9187f7c8216…545097cc…2023-01-25 18:36:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: extremely convenient /dev/null for eureich inventory (for if e.g. eureich may need to be 're-democratized'(tm) by usg at some hypothetical future time)
880cef02c4e7ebdb…87193cc2…2023-02-07 19:47:19 <asciilifeform> cgra: 'prod' oughta get the dm chain hashes. (tho nfi whether blatta replies to these correctly)
adad2bb072ceb72f…72ceb72f…2023-02-07 16:09:43 <asciilifeform> ( of course you can simply walk 'broken hearts' but would expect this costs moar cpu )
406630abbed67bf2…e72002bd…2023-02-12 16:21:20 <signpost> if/when they start breaking the internet, that is what's called a teachable moment.
37f5e035ddd1f3d6…cdba5991…2023-01-29 18:25:52 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021644 << yeah, is fine, just another nitpick of mine. and i prolly had a slightly wrong impression on how much of that 'rationale' you intended to do right away
3fb8fbb220f09d9e…03d76557…2022-12-05 17:26:45 <phf> e.g. the difference between markup and structured data
cc82f2007ff6c74f…7ff6c74f…2022-12-16 17:59:32 <asciilifeform> for that matter, 'send it commands' also somewhat os-specific. ('local sockets' not entirely standard)
b5bc644c1f643fb1…3756e6b8…2023-01-19 18:50:13 <phf> …and am i the only one to notice that baugman kind of sounds like bugman (the judge bangs his gavel "any more of such comment from you and i will dismiss the case with prejudice!")
cc0704baac2e3cf8…ac2e3cf8…2023-01-21 03:17:57 <signpost> this is at least where nietzsche left things, that gods, culture, and the soul are authored items and only men who can author without going mad will survive.
54e4694dabaaf918…7f7c8216…2023-01-25 18:38:54 <signpost> yep, nailed their energy, military stock. notbad ww3 sim at this rate.
8b65e944880cef02…c4e7ebdb…2023-02-07 19:49:58 <cgra> asciilifeform, A receives prod from B, and the advertised direct self-chain will be of B's chain, and A's own chain isn't advertised. or did i miss something?
feab9ebdadad2bb0…687bb9d1…2023-02-07 16:25:38 <awt> asciilifeform: in the current release they are stored in memory in the order buffer.
cac5285a406630ab…406630ab…2023-02-12 16:22:12 <signpost> thing having a web frontend UI as normie lobby would also be cool
21bf2e9737f5e035…73966940…2023-01-29 18:27:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 12:28:14 asciilifeform[5]: cgra: not that asciilifeform is opposed to making such a note, but if also went & made a similar note re: erry possible footshot he could think of , spec would be over9000 pgs and take anuther 20yrs to finish...
69ba15643fb8fbb2…20f09d9e…2022-12-05 17:27:30 <asciilifeform> e.g. (image \x01\x02\x03\x04...) ? wats wrong with that?
3c86db05cc82f200…cc82f200…2022-12-16 18:00:13 <asciilifeform> not to mention the ui nightmare of n00b needing to set up 2, rather than 1 , proggy, and make'em talk to 1 anuther
2d3866b8b5bc644c…b5bc644c…2023-01-19 18:54:58 <phf> asciilifeform, but yeah this grey's scouts photo controversy is representative of the whole thing re http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020971
fb0605f554e4694d…abaaf918…2023-01-25 18:41:18 <asciilifeform> signpost: eureich own-goaled own energy supply long prior to ukrowank (when 'de-nuclearized')
7e6c0a778b65e944…880cef02…2023-02-07 19:51:12 <asciilifeform> cgra: in fact you're right, prod currently not contains direct netchain (and it oughta)
575dc4b9feab9ebd…adad2bb0…2023-02-07 17:12:34 <asciilifeform> awt: makes sense. tho with obv minus that they'll get lost on reset
fa9669e8cac5285a…cac5285a…2023-02-12 16:22:45 <signpost> meanwhile what's this joint psyop with the chinese. "oh, we've all got UFOs we're tracking now"
dd0b478d21bf2e97…ddd1f3d6…2023-01-29 18:33:21 <asciilifeform> cgra: asciilifeform appreciates commentary re spec, and in fact key moving parts of the current protocol were on advice from other people (e.g. orig. spec not even had 'getdata')
69597e1eebaebac1…ebaebac1…2022-11-28 00:37:26 asciilifeform did wonder, wai not at least ~try~ caching the thing (see if it's still in /tmp) b/w files
0235139d69ba1564…69ba1564…2022-12-05 17:27:48 <asciilifeform> if client not knows how to display -- degrades gracefully, simply prints
6beb07482d3866b8…33d2844a…2023-01-19 18:56:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 12:08:46 asciilifeform[5]: phf: know of a decent source re subj ?
3925a81a7e6c0a77…7e6c0a77…2023-02-07 19:51:26 asciilifeform remembers thinking about this, and considering introducing a 0xfa prod which does
e0a3992a575dc4b9…575dc4b9…2023-02-07 17:12:53 <asciilifeform> (ideal pestron oughtn't care about reset at all)
874163fefa9669e8…6453f46e…2023-02-12 17:35:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023028 << not clear from linked material whether item in question is ice40-compat. (and therefore might work with the reversed toolchain), and for that matter, asciilifeform has nfi whether the latter is even being updated by anyone
68d0ff66dd0b478d…dd0b478d…2023-01-29 18:33:49 <asciilifeform> (instead had ludicrous kludge where packets were to be ack'd etc)
ddebb5a00235139d…3fb8fbb2…2022-12-05 17:27:53 <phf> i don't know if you're written much cl-who, but i have, and i'd rather not have to juggle whitespace vs closing strings all over the place. (p "foo " (b " bar ") (i " dog ") " close.")
43defd4444ee5c18…c83e37d3…2022-12-16 18:02:47 <signpost> more a question of what libpest public interface would be enough to keep stationdenken from being infiltrated by qtdenken or webshitdenken
b6e869c2e0a3992a…feab9ebd…2023-02-07 17:28:23 <awt> asciilifeform: yes with resets in mind then memory only is not acceptable.
cac88cbf874163fe…8dd1b929…2023-02-12 17:36:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 07:32:54 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: lattice bringing out moar gates
584a778168d0ff66…68d0ff66…2023-01-29 18:34:44 <asciilifeform> ( & see also phf's point re designing p2pisms )
694d92695d31129f…e0c94026…2022-11-28 00:38:19 <phf> refer to unixhaters handbook to understand the brain damage
9d36f2b243defd44…43defd44…2022-12-16 18:03:19 <signpost> not necessary that there's yet another network protocol at this layer. just granting that "UI" will likely get torn up and replaced repeatedly, I'm sure.
7924d4adb061aa60…b061aa60…2023-01-19 18:57:15 <asciilifeform> is almost as if they pick the ones with 'appropriate' names. bankmans.
1b8782cd3834c88d…3925a81a…2023-02-07 19:52:22 asciilifeform atm not has any interesting dm history with anybody, so not particularly cares if it gets reset, but it oughta get handled in new spec; open to suggestions
7e2f54d9cac88cbf…874163fe…2023-02-12 17:39:11 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, historically in fpga marketing lit 'moar gates' has usually meant 'in the form of proprietary on-die appliances' rather than 'bigger sea o'gates' fwiw )
b96498e9584a7781…21bf2e97…2023-01-29 18:35:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:57:51 phf[awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019348 << but on the other hand we don't want to discourage you writing experimental code, because unlike athena born as she was from the forehead of her father, distributed code has too much emergent behavior to attempt to reason it fr
ea893cf6694d9269…694d9269…2022-11-28 00:38:46 <phf> i mean don't even need to cache: you can just send perl -e '...' as a first command, which sets up a mainloop server, that responds to your commands
786f2cc6694d9269…5d31129f…2022-11-28 00:38:48 <asciilifeform> normally asciilifeform would immediately nod, but on surface seems like generic braindamage, rather than unix braindamage
97287ec26a9fe00d…0235139d…2022-12-05 17:28:42 asciilifeform would rather write by hand above than <p>...</p>. obv. would prefer not by hand, but likely for a while will be by hand
8a1f67ce9d36f2b2…9d36f2b2…2022-12-16 18:03:38 <signpost> probably that process is what elucidates what a libpest oughta be shaped like.
8a375fc37924d4ad…2d3866b8…2023-01-19 18:59:14 <phf> a handful of small digit published books, often self published, by participants, youtube video interviews by "i was there" folk. on the other side you have international consensus, which is pretty much crystalized.
fefbc3431b8782cd…1b8782cd…2023-02-07 19:53:17 <asciilifeform> fwiw even nao if one gets a direct msg, it will contain netchain and theoretically oughta result in full sync of history
2684541f7e2f54d9…7e2f54d9…2023-02-12 17:41:18 <asciilifeform> see e.g. thread re economics of fpga biz, re wai erry vendor to date ended up selling ~same ~indigestible thing
d090220ab96498e9…caa9062b…2023-01-29 18:34:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:47:42 asciilifeform: starts to think that in the process of posting this, reduced it to a trivial snoar. apologies to those who bored to tears.
d5b2e077ea893cf6…786f2cc6…2022-11-28 00:39:06 <asciilifeform> sumbody simply didn't bother baking a separate case for >1 file
18d4e0558a1f67ce…44ee5c18…2022-12-16 18:04:22 <asciilifeform> db is anuther can of worms waiting to be opened. e.g. atm folx using sqlite, but it not supports (afaik) encryption on disk, which imho ideally would exist (enter pw on warmup of pestron)
65b463558a375fc3…8a375fc3…2023-01-19 19:00:18 <phf> the facts themselves are reminiscent of france's question during the bombing of kosovo "wait, why are we supporting muslims over christians" with the answer "lol, which decade is this"
5e1045132684541f…bed67bf2…2023-02-12 17:41:19 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-20 asciilifeform: there is presently no 100%-documented homogeneous fpga on market. and, for fundamental reasons, aint likely to be, 100% of fpga vendors live from the 'rent out the right to use our built-in NIC' and similar scamola
613ceac8d090220a…584a7781…2023-01-29 18:36:31 <asciilifeform> not even to mention the fact that awt independently conceived of ~80-90% of the thing and baked pre-pest proto , with only coupla ln of log to go from, back in '21
e7666230d5b2e077…ea893cf6…2022-11-28 00:39:44 <phf> nah, i'm not even going to nod along. this is not "simply", this is fundamentally retarted on multiple levels
2535f5c9c391936a…6a9fe00d…2022-12-05 17:29:39 <phf> markup is of text /annotation/, whitespace is significant, more text by weight than markup, "strings" are first class, etc.
a4987d9418d4e055…18d4e055…2022-12-16 18:06:32 <asciilifeform> ( and imho , to use any kinda db that ~aint~ solidly integrated into pestron, is terrible idea )
6079c59065b46355…65b46355…2023-01-19 19:01:06 <phf> bulk of participants are now old men or dead in the past decade
9c8338b0b9101276…3834c88d…2023-02-07 19:56:15 <cgra> asciilifeform, ahh 5.4.2.3 in 0xfa spec already says dm net-chain is to be used
2635ae6a5e104513…2684541f…2023-02-12 17:43:35 <asciilifeform> it is certainly possible to make 'gigantic sea of gates'. physically -- but afaik not economically. so nobody's aboutta.
a9aadc27613ceac8…613ceac8…2023-01-29 18:37:07 <asciilifeform> ( in fact wrote & posted his 'alcuin' while asciilifeform was still sweating out 1st spec )
b1254817e7666230…d5b2e077…2022-11-28 00:40:27 <asciilifeform> retarded in the usual way where author: 'it worx for me, all i ever do it edit /etc/apache configs' etc
1401b0922535f5c9…c391936a…2022-12-05 17:29:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017438 << imho 'parse fast' is a false god, and in particular in context of pestron, which eats over9000 cpu for decoding packets
a39e3efa6079c590…6079c590…2023-01-19 19:02:45 <phf> and of course pest is now a whitesupremacist dark net chat system https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/magazine/rhodesia-zimbabwe-white-supremacists.html
e812786f9c8338b0…b9101276…2023-02-07 19:56:59 <asciilifeform> aha, it simply doesn't appear in prod currently
8a2859c02635ae6a…5e104513…2023-02-12 17:43:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-04 asciilifeform: qonfluent: actually, the ~only~ si i'd consider making, is a large homogeneous fpga . but afaik it is ~impossible to actually finance such a project , unless yer already rockefeller.
55b349c3a9aadc27…a9aadc27…2023-01-29 18:38:20 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's lights, pest is an 'obvious, in retrospect' item, that 'could have existed in 1990s', but -- 'devil in details'.
5f710841b1254817…e7666230…2022-11-28 00:42:25 <phf> send perl -e 'while(my $cmd=<>) { if(cmd=='list') { ... } ... }' as first command, and then send commands one after another. this way also not stuck with idiotic protocol, because if you want to extend ("getchunk /file <start> <end>"), simply add command and add it to your perl script. still overhead, but at least it's per
96ea312a1401b092…2706efb6…2022-12-05 17:30:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 11:48:00 phf[awt]: but you can put the same datastructure into something like bencode (or the whole can of worms ASN.1, hipster buffers, whatever), and get a much more compact, faster to parse on the wire object
f6df4053bc4f0b89…8a1f67ce…2022-12-16 18:09:07 <signpost> yep nobody's setting up a local postgres for this thing
29dbd4da8a2859c0…2635ae6a…2023-02-12 17:44:42 <asciilifeform> ( who the fuck wants to invest 1e9+$ into selling a commodity, when could instead push a vendorlock mousetrap. )
d4fc135055b349c3…55b349c3…2023-01-29 18:43:03 <asciilifeform> ... and many of these details, imho, can only be nailed down empirically.
be5b365396ea312a…1401b092…2022-12-05 17:30:30 <asciilifeform> whitespace is significant (outside of "") only in that need at least 1 b/w tokens, neh
dd8330def6df4053…bc4f0b89…2022-12-16 18:09:40 <asciilifeform> the 'separate $proggy into $parts which talk over $protocol' thing -- is 1 of those ideals that seemed appealing in '80s, but today seems to reliably produce barf; witness e.g. tex's attempt to separate the renderer, and where it is today
f8ca016056222624…e812786f…2023-02-07 19:58:06 asciilifeform loathes the idea of breaking compat if there's any way to avoid it, is bad enuff that there's no clean way to get multipart msgs w/out doing it
63fa1acf29dbd4da…29dbd4da…2023-02-12 17:50:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023031 << asciilifeform can see the win from 'www n00b door' from 'get folx to see the win and bake own pestnets' pov, but 'glue directly to heathen chats, so lamers can shit into a pestnet w/out doing any of the key management etc chores' imho questionable win
e6a31f2ed4fc1350…d4fc1350…2023-01-29 18:45:17 <asciilifeform> returning to this point, imho is major reason wai the luby thing aint optional luxury, but key moving part --
a4e1442e0c6bd5e8…0c6bd5e8…2022-11-28 00:42:38 <phf> but that requires more than a second of thinking
b1d7adbddd8330de…dd8330de…2022-12-16 18:10:14 <asciilifeform> ( is still appealing, imho, if somehow could download working standardized parts from that universe where these existed & worked... )
46cf6026d1982ca0…ee79c3c3…2023-01-19 19:03:43 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-12-22 deedbot: weevlos voiced for 30 minutes.
426c49a4f8ca0160…56222624…2023-02-07 21:07:28 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022465 << here's my broadcast hashes, would some old high-uptime station like to give own for comparison?
abc8211d63fa1acf…cac88cbf…2023-02-12 17:51:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 10:57:20 awt: blatta working in python 3.x and exploring making a discord bridge module/bot.
8b391fcde6a31f2e…b96498e9…2023-01-29 18:46:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 12:42:39 signpost: world's looking like fragmented internet with intermittent access may be in our near future, too.
17d00458a4e1442e…b1254817…2022-11-28 00:42:50 <asciilifeform> well and relies on having perl on the other end
81ea6e28b1d7adbd…b1d7adbd…2022-12-16 18:11:34 asciilifeform recalls recent thrd re wordpress db backend
376cdc8a46cf6026…d1982ca0…2023-01-19 19:04:53 <asciilifeform> iirc the rhodesia thing may've been '1st swallow of spring' of 'wtf, disagree? do you heil hitler?' thing
05cac061426c49a4…deb97c13…2023-02-07 21:08:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 14:44:58 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: hmm, and perhaps an interesting test to compare a list of net message hashes of a long-time high-uptime station with, say, my station's (new station)
01b64a1babc8211d…63fa1acf…2023-02-12 17:52:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023036 << popularity of 'ufology' does appear to track 'reich wants to distract and corral political unreliables' 'temperature'
44ad7f3b8b391fcd…e6a31f2e…2023-01-29 18:46:00 <asciilifeform> conceivable that 'i have things with hashes h1, h2, ... h_n' 'i need h2' etc will at some pt be the primary, 'usenet-like' mechanism so to speak at all
3ff22132356a2dd1…315254b2…2022-12-05 17:31:44 <phf> i'm not making an argument above, i'm setting a context. the things that i'm saying simply _are_, rather then some kind of pro or against position
0afce2ed81ea6e28…f6df4053…2022-12-16 18:12:31 <signpost> was the conclusion that wp wasn't easily separable from mysql?
415aeda6376cdc8a…323f412f…2023-01-19 19:05:43 <phf> well, yeah that's my point http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010582
dab172bf05cac061…426c49a4…2023-02-07 21:07:58 <cgra> blatta one-liner: sqlite3 <dbfile> "select timestamp, message_hash from log where command=0 order by timestamp, message_hash" | gzip -9 > <hashfile>.gz
522d56cf01b64a1b…8a2859c0…2023-02-12 17:52:43 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-16 asciilifeform: 'we maybe found martians' seems to get run whenever 'need noose distraction, and the arrange-postals dept. is slow'
64fa638f01b64a1b…abc8211d…2023-02-12 17:53:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 11:23:59 signpost: meanwhile what's this joint psyop with the chinese. "oh, we've all got UFOs we're tracking now"
e437b80b44ad7f3b…37f5e035…2023-01-29 18:46:51 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021672 << can easily agree. while though my brain-wiring is prolly in feather-weight class for this serious design biz
72bb66723ff22132…3ff22132…2022-12-05 17:32:13 <phf> the question that needs to be answere is "what is our payload and why" first, before we reach for a particular solution
9923040d0afce2ed…0afce2ed…2022-12-16 18:12:45 <signpost> I ported the thing to postgresql in about a day a while back; dunno where I put the sauces tho, lol
092dfdc9415aeda6…6beb0748…2023-01-19 19:06:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 00:27:53 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010560 << like i've mentioned before, i've been studying subj. on account of first known to me case of das racis!1 being used as weapon. but specifically why “build rhodesia” because of how fervently patriotic rhodesians were. were building
d6d61f22dab172bf…615b505c…2023-02-07 21:23:39 <signpost> have to say, chatgpt makes a fine talking notebook and research assistant.
410836db64fa638f…01b64a1b…2023-02-12 17:54:33 <asciilifeform> ( recall that ufology started life as 'forced meme' of us air force, which littered continent with crashes of seekrit jets and grasped at straws to find ways to keep plebes from plundering/photographing and ruining the fun
76a89ae1e437b80b…8b391fcd…2023-01-29 18:48:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 13:44:18 asciilifeform[5]: ... and many of these details, imho, can only be nailed down empirically.
32fbb005365cebab…31c89087…2022-11-28 01:02:18 <phf> oddly enough there's sftp file system, but i don't have that in menu. i imagine that runs directly of sftp commands?
a918c2cf72bb6672…356a2dd1…2022-12-05 17:32:45 asciilifeform suspects that payload will be largely text, with occasional links/emphasis
44842a629923040d…9923040d…2022-12-16 18:13:06 <signpost> but the principle that pest should take minimal steps to run is 100% correct
20a2d7c1092dfdc9…376cdc8a…2023-01-19 19:10:51 asciilifeform lulz over own naivete re 'where good sources?' q. is rather like asking about 'good sources' for e.g. spanish civil war
dbddfe6cd6d61f22…d6d61f22…2023-02-07 21:24:16 <signpost> would like to have one of these trained on particular information rather than wikipedia, reddit, etc.
d24ce7db76a89ae1…44ad7f3b…2023-01-29 18:47:50 <asciilifeform> fwiw the 'serious designers' gave us luldesigns like tcp.
e35ea474a918c2cf…a918c2cf…2022-12-05 17:35:28 asciilifeform possibly grasps phf's observation -- imposing (text "hello world") instead of hello world on erry msg is annoying
97a877df44842a62…81ea6e28…2022-12-16 18:15:12 <asciilifeform> imho a reasonably-achievable standard is 'takes same effort to install as irc client'
290f22af20a2d7c1…20a2d7c1…2023-01-19 19:11:17 asciilifeform also lulz over the ancient thread, where e.g.
25a45eaddbddfe6c…dbddfe6c…2023-02-07 21:24:57 <signpost> while calling the thing AI is an overstatement, useful tool, if currently gargling the beoble's internet.
fb23b4cdeb42b540…eb42b540…2023-02-12 17:56:43 <asciilifeform> later on, was expanded to serve other useful functions.
9ff98174d24ce7db…ae118d4e…2023-01-29 18:48:00 <signpost> asciilifeform: I published the most recent revision to the python one. it's possible my dumb head is the reason why it's currently not able to do more than a coupla megabytes per second in transfer speed.
7fd459ae94498ccb…94498ccb…2022-11-28 01:09:55 <phf> …except it doesn't want to use config/id_rsa.pub. despite the fact that this https://midnight-commander.org/ticket/3238 claims its implemented
f9c0a0e1e35ea474…72bb6672…2022-12-05 17:36:19 <phf> but then to combine your point with mine, is something like (text "hello world " (image #x02#x01)) something that should be supported?
41206118290f22af…092dfdc9…2023-01-19 19:12:49 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-12-22 weevlos: most people can't be expected to
e085895325a45ead…25a45ead…2023-02-07 21:25:05 <signpost> not the poor thing's fault this was done to it.
dc5b895f25a45ead…c40e0515…2023-02-08 21:32:15 <phf> so now incremental update is broken, but i can still run with a full refresh, which with 250 packets takes .5s
2382e30efb23b4cd…522d56cf…2023-02-12 17:56:43 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it
6d3aa2689ff98174…9ff98174…2023-01-29 18:48:24 <signpost> that said, super-speed might not be priority number one. it does stand up to loss of packets as expected
fcd38fcd7fd459ae…7fd459ae…2022-11-28 01:25:01 <phf> and that's because sftp vfs includes its own ssh/config parser, that uses regular expressions, and expects you to have your configure in a particular format
4b4b7669f9c0a0e1…e35ea474…2022-12-05 17:36:24 <asciilifeform> possibly signpost's idea from yes. makes sense, and msg oughta have a prefix to indicate whether structured or raw text
bbe46e2c9aa4b348…9aa4b348…2022-12-16 18:34:58 <phf> come to think of it, early 2000s late 90s windows software was peak usability. mirc, irfanview, "the bat!" mail client, ICQ, winamp
a651c7d441206118…276321e6…2023-01-19 19:15:19 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021030 << https://theworthyhouse.com/2020/04/13/mine-were-of-trouble-peter-kemp/ if you haven't read
298c8695e0858953…f8ca0160…2023-02-07 22:16:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: thing behaves precisely like asciilifeform imagined in 1990s 'wat if i had over9000 cpu & disk to run my shannonizer'
3a09aa1a2382e30e…1baf21ec…2023-02-12 17:57:09 <awt> asciilifeform: I suspect there will be no stampede to the pest discord room. Also it can be invite only, modded, etc. It will however allow any person of potential interest to join the discussion via their iphone.
461a496e6d3aa268…d24ce7db…2023-01-29 18:48:46 <asciilifeform> signpost: coupla mB/s as what fraction of the avail. bw ?
bb07a589fcd38fcd…fcd38fcd…2022-11-28 01:36:44 <phf> asciilifeform, you might want to look into that, sftp vfs once configured works somewhat better than fish
194d45b8a651c7d4…41206118…2023-01-19 19:16:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 14:12:11 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: lulz over own naivete re 'where good sources?' q. is rather like asking about 'good sources' for e.g. spanish civil war
f3db40e0298c8695…298c8695…2023-02-07 22:17:20 <asciilifeform> i.e. arbitrarily plausible/grammatical statements carrying, often enuff, complete rubbish info
62d856fe3a09aa1a…fb23b4cd…2023-02-12 17:58:13 <asciilifeform> awt: seems like www gate oughta satisfy the 'i want to talk from ipnoje' folx, neh
9558f3f4461a496e…461a496e…2023-01-29 18:49:02 <asciilifeform> (if bw was e.g. 100mb/s -- is pretty good)
0aebf7f072011872…72011872…2022-12-05 17:36:49 <asciilifeform> likely nobody will want to write these by hand.
76ff794a3abd7ec4…bbe46e2c…2022-12-16 18:35:46 <phf> that is within the limits of what the stack and the approach could provide
94cee7ef194d45b8…290f22af…2023-01-19 19:16:02 <asciilifeform> awt: did read that 1. there's a buncha these
28bed19ff3db40e0…e0858953…2023-02-07 22:18:14 <signpost> the human's not excused from evaluating the output, but the thing's entirely capable of the bureaucratic parts of professional programming I'm uninterested in performing myself.
9ec551b89558f3f4…6d3aa268…2023-01-29 18:49:20 <signpost> this is where encoder and decoder are sitting on the same box, so localhost traffic.
b96e571cb8e05387…b8e05387…2022-11-28 01:39:11 <phf> there's still ложка дёгтя though: when getting the directory list it inexplicably does echo in the modeline "sftp: (Ctrl-G break) listing... <filename>". where i suspect the terminal i/o actually slows down the listing more than the listing itself being slow. what utter idiocy
d688dda776ff794a…76ff794a…2022-12-16 18:36:37 <phf> i remember how annoying it was that own built visual basic programs required a DLL. jeez, you had to have one extra DLL!
6845242028bed19f…f3db40e0…2023-02-07 22:18:18 <asciilifeform> ( msdos shanninizer was good for chains of 2-3 words, not only on acct of cpu poverty but of necessarily small input corpus )
71998af0b96e571c…365cebab…2022-11-28 02:05:51 asciilifeform not infrequently uses (raw, rather than via mc) sftp
81f3b37c69cdbd6d…0aebf7f0…2022-12-05 17:37:35 <asciilifeform> even getting folx to remember, in classical logotron, that [link][legend], was tricky
0a4fcb8268452420…28bed19f…2023-02-07 22:18:22 <signpost> handily replaces a stable full of 22 year olds
d21a6b45d8a10d8e…805da607…2023-02-12 17:59:29 <asciilifeform> iirc phf described how one might make one that worx as well as any such thing could
658c1af081f3b37c…69cdbd6d…2022-12-05 17:37:42 <phf> hello, <b world>! the <i point> that i'm making is illustrated by the picture of a cat <img images-hash>
cccbd4731257b791…46cf6026…2023-01-19 19:17:09 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-11-15 asciilifeform: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, History stopped in 1936, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly report
78c992270a4fcb82…68452420…2023-02-07 22:18:31 <asciilifeform> signpost: didja subscribe to the 'tab completion gpt' thing ?
f3debd3ce052aec9…e052aec9…2023-02-09 02:07:35 <phf> this myers implementation with parts done using infix notation is so ugly, i love it http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QPOZ
c745435dd21a6b45…d8a10d8e…2023-02-12 18:00:52 <awt> With discord you can leave, come back - log is still there, get notifications, etc. Yesiknow the log is available on the web, etc.
b4675b33ae012e66…c14d6080…2023-01-29 18:49:37 <asciilifeform> bottleneck is prolly the py proggy aha
41e8956250c44143…50c44143…2022-12-16 18:38:15 asciilifeform experienced a kind of 'inverse' of this ugh when realized that one could write linux proggies w/out any lib linkage, a la msdos, as demo'd in e.g. 'm'
692795d2cccbd473…415aeda6…2023-01-19 19:22:19 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021024 << curious that the source for this article is https://americanhomefront.wunc.org/people/john-ismay mixed with hounding individuals online ("hello, i'm from new york times, why are you a nazi?") you also have complete by the book talki Ϛ@l y#z'rqN%2x\
a03af8c578c99227…78c99227…2023-02-07 22:19:05 asciilifeform would expect it to suck in bugs often enuff from the shithub training set to be moar trouble than worth. but not tried personally
b909f8a4f3debd3c…f3debd3c…2023-02-09 02:08:38 <phf> this is probably not what those "can't we lisp, but with an algol syntax?" people meant, huh
35173176c745435d…d21a6b45…2023-02-12 18:01:18 <asciilifeform> ideal www gate would display ordered log from an actual pestron, rather than current irc kludge
417a35f0b4675b33…ae012e66…2023-01-29 18:49:43 <signpost> not saying I give up, just stating current status
3cbc7f306e1c9bd4…658c1af0…2022-12-05 17:39:50 <phf> (we have better mechanisms, imho, than inline binary blobs. if you see <img foo> can simply request for foo using signpost technology)
a60e1cfc692795d2…692795d2…2023-01-19 19:22:19 <phf> ng points about rhodesia. and i only just noticed that bugmen photos are in there also. Ϛ@l y#z'rqN%2x\
006bd21f692795d2…194d45b8…2023-01-19 19:23:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 14:04:21 phf[deedbot|awt]: (https://archive.is/UhBNU)
1b4f97afa03af8c5…e0858953…2023-02-07 22:19:16 <phf> signpost, now you too can enjoy the best part of professional programming: endlessly merging pull requests from barely literate zoomer junior developers
fcdceb2eb909f8a4…57244129…2023-02-09 02:09:48 <asciilifeform> phf: what are the odd uniturds in there ? (show up as 'diamonds' on asciilifeform's box)
ee9bd62835173176…fa9669e8…2023-02-12 18:01:52 <signpost> yeah that's true, while bolting to heathen chats will inherit same problems as the current irc frontend.
62be91663cbc7f30…6e1c9bd4…2022-12-05 17:40:14 <asciilifeform> phf: lubytron only practical for direct msgs
f4b9b3d2a60e1cfc…8971fbad…2023-01-19 19:27:40 <asciilifeform> these 'faithful dogs' even moar pathetic specimens than ordinary nyt et al goebbelses who went to yale instead of iraq. the latter at least judas for solid 30 silvers, rather than eat bullets for regime which pays 25k/y and 'die in queue at va hospital'
fcd2687b006bd21f…1257b791…2023-01-19 19:23:01 <asciilifeform> they're prolly in all their pieces re subj, same ones
b33f8574fcdceb2e…b909f8a4…2023-02-09 02:10:43 <phf> that's a symbol i hung the dispatch macro from! for extra alien weirdness
8bf193d9ee9bd628…ee9bd628…2023-02-12 18:02:09 <signpost> but in either case, derp that wants to stay on discord will do so.
214bdd335dfa5224…b4675b33…2023-01-29 18:50:04 <asciilifeform> imho that's actually pretty good, asciilifeform expected 100s of kB/s
4c79665562be9166…62be9166…2022-12-05 17:40:41 <asciilifeform> (no amt of bw would be enuff if were used in broadcasts)
48dd95afe5953bee…d688dda7…2022-12-16 18:40:05 <phf> i sometimes have those "'member!" moments, when looking at artifacts of old linux, how different pre-corporate linux was. peak hacker culture. i recon linus's "never break ABI" comes from that old school "grew up in 90s with DOS" mentality, more so than it is a unix thing
90c7d0551d81f551…0a4fcb82…2023-02-07 22:19:38 <signpost> as if this isn't exactly what I'm replacing with it
6bf3ef8d04d08135…8bf193d9…2023-02-12 18:02:56 signpost thinks there are a few lonely travelers left to be found though, and encourages any attempts since all to date have not yielded them.
e7bf90124c796655…3cbc7f30…2022-12-05 17:40:49 <phf> i'm not sure how naggum would support links, since he's anti-attribute. is it positional, or nested. can probably do <link <url http://btcbase.org> ye old logs>
7d16857f48dd95af…41e89562…2022-12-16 18:40:38 <asciilifeform> it's quite a fortuitous accident that we still have that api ( while it lasts... )
4418eda0941c4200…a60e1cfc…2023-01-19 19:23:51 <phf> but john ismay himself is a navy seal with iraq deployment, if nothing else it's not typical for these types to go hounding individual veterans for their political views
656ad51b6bf3ef8d…6bf3ef8d…2023-02-12 18:03:26 <signpost> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-12#1023112 << chicom state media is doing "omg ufo" concurrently with the reich.
ef4542c57a67a538…7a67a538…2023-01-29 18:53:05 <signpost> yeah, it's not obscenely slow, but not saturating my pipe
f00c5a34e7bf9012…4c796655…2022-12-05 17:43:49 asciilifeform suspects that there's no 100% satisfactory way to inband markup, will be ugly in some obvious way no matter how it is done
28bc9de17d16857f…7d16857f…2022-12-16 18:41:19 <asciilifeform> if were easier to break in a frog-boiling style, would've prolly been already broken long ago.
d99c85d4ae6a0260…c7c42252…2023-01-19 19:33:52 <phf> awt, there's van orden, recently a house rep https://www.vanordenforcongress.com
8971fbad4418eda0…941c4200…2023-01-19 19:25:21 asciilifeform sees nuffin inconsistent there. (see also.)
5b0cee6c9cf61dd0…9cf61dd0…2023-02-09 02:11:40 <asciilifeform> was that macro in an earlier paste ? wat's it look like
ea85f9f4656ad51b…2382e30e…2023-02-12 18:03:27 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 10:56:07 awt[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022796 << having a hard time figuring out what to work on next. I was thinking about implementing rekeying. Not very exciting, like the gui work, but something I can get done in a reasonable amount of time. Some things I've spent a
6d437791ef4542c5…5dfa5224…2023-01-29 18:54:08 <cgra> signpost, was it the jetbrains thingy you're profiling with?
820d1d32f00c5a34…e7bf9012…2022-12-05 17:48:52 <phf> the attribute problem exists in general, (link :url "http…" :title "xxx" "ye old logs") vs ((link (url "http…") (title "…")) …) vs (link "http…" nil …) etc.
8386b54528bc9de1…48dd95af…2022-12-16 18:44:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018689 << i have a local instance of barksinthewind running on sqlite, enough that if you just click on any of the immediately exposed functionality, it's been a while that i've seen a php warning or sql error.
bdccfc98d99c85d4…ae6a0260…2023-01-19 19:36:08 <asciilifeform> afaik this is how one proves regime loyalty and 'become electable' in 'red usa' (vs 'blue usa' via harvard diploma etc) but in practice ==
32e74b288971fbad…cccbd473…2023-01-19 19:25:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-26 asciilifeform: this is why asciilifeform unable historically to muster much sympathy for 'iraq veteran, his bonus retro-withdrawn, evicted' -- motherfuckers, you could have, should have, shot 1) your officers 2) your landlord 3) anything with a harvard diploma -- half century ago. but no, gotta f
7770a546425f676e…1d81f551…2023-02-07 22:20:58 asciilifeform not tried, and not even on acct of gag reflex but simply because not encounters the kind of situations where it'd be of any conceivable use
7ffeea975b0cee6c…b33f8574…2023-02-09 02:13:33 <phf> no, i starting writing one myself, but then remembered there was inflix.cl in cmu archive
63c567abea85f9f4…64fa638f…2023-02-12 18:04:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 11:05:59 phf[awt|deedbot]: of course the main problem though is that blatta is a on backburner, so an iteration cycle on issues like that, that need to be explored and tuned, counts in weeks if not months.
11910aac6d437791…ef4542c5…2023-01-29 18:55:29 <signpost> yeah, but that doesn't give me a sense of memory churn, does it?
12782b05820d1d32…820d1d32…2022-12-05 17:50:08 <phf> oh also (link ((url …) (title …)) …) is popular. i've encountered all four in sexp<->html common lisp packages
14f98c218386b545…b392143f…2022-12-16 18:45:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 13:13:38 signpost: was the conclusion that wp wasn't easily separable from mysql?
b124dc6ebdccfc98…32e74b28…2023-01-19 19:36:08 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-09-03 ascii_field: they happily send their sons to army so they can 'die for a fat bitch's right to marry her dog'
c7c4225232e74b28…4418eda0…2023-01-19 19:27:37 <phf> his recent article, https://archive.is/Hm26n `by Eric Schmitt, Adam Entous, Ronen Bergman, John Ismay and Thomas Gibbons-Neff`. apparently it takes five guys to write an nyt article with any kind of meat on it
c0e5e5d57ffeea97…7ffeea97…2023-02-09 02:13:36 <phf> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/syntax/infix/infix.cl
ec5763a163c567ab…656ad51b…2023-02-12 18:03:35 <signpost> whether emergent behavior or actual coordination, disgusting.
3f6de28411910aac…11910aac…2023-01-29 18:55:39 <signpost> open to suggestions on the proper way to instrument this thinger
ecc657bd12782b05…f00c5a34…2022-12-05 17:51:33 <asciilifeform> very difficult to beat [link][legend] for hand-writability
a29d583314f98c21…8386b545…2022-12-16 18:46:25 <phf> but i know for a fact it's not a full coverage. in fact there are bits and pieces of wp code (at least hte vintage we're using) that were clearly there since early days, they are gnarly pieces of mysql/old-php that are full blown "i've never programmed before, so here's some spaghetti that i wrote in 98 in perl"
a6000ea6b124dc6e…29ffd2f7…2023-01-19 19:37:36 <awt> phf: yes. "My friends died for the vendetta of a bunch of Eastern European jews against Russia this means I know what I'm talking about"
e7f4ba1332e56cc6…425f676e…2023-02-07 22:21:37 <phf> there was a hack back in the day, called remembrance agent, which was really just a continous search in a second emacs window over all your documents, preindexed
eb19eab4ec5763a1…ec5763a1…2023-02-12 18:04:51 <signpost> wife to her credit has said throughout that what's going on is orwell's fake conflicts, and that there will be no ww3.
cc3debe83f6de284…3f6de284…2023-01-29 18:56:07 <signpost> http://trinque.org/2023/01/18/ocpy_squirt_slurp/ << latest src
59a317e3ecc657bd…ecc657bd…2022-12-05 17:51:47 <asciilifeform> but no obv. way to generalize the compactness to all possib. payloads
0e15f6f3a29d5833…28bc9de1…2022-12-16 18:47:02 <asciilifeform> phf: a++. iirc did take some massage tho
8633cd24a6000ea6…bdccfc98…2023-01-19 19:39:32 <asciilifeform> 'dulce et decorum est pro soros mori' !1111
8d60d4f6e7f4ba13…32e56cc6…2023-02-07 22:21:51 <signpost> can't produce algorithmically interesting code worth a shit. can save me hours of bureaucracy when pasting java libs together.
740075eee7f4ba13…e7f4ba13…2023-02-07 22:21:53 <phf> https://alumni.media.mit.edu/~rhodes/Papers/remembrance.html
2a668f169edbdda6…c0e5e5d5…2023-02-09 02:14:46 <phf> i patched it to support some extra pythonic syntax (x//y and x[y:z], though the later i'm still working on, so the paste above uses (subseq ...) rather than new syntax still)
b11bc595eb19eab4…04d08135…2023-02-12 18:05:48 <asciilifeform> no climactic, 'glorious' ww3, as traditionally masturbated tho, fwiw
79569089eb19eab4…eb19eab4…2023-02-12 18:05:51 <signpost> not sure if I quoted wrong line, or lag. meant to quote this
86b8894ccc3debe8…cc3debe8…2023-01-29 18:58:53 <signpost> one problem I have is that if I send too quickly, the receiving end misses some. I assume this is because I don't know how to write socket code properly.
70a20db159a317e3…2ff63341…2022-12-05 17:51:52 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017483 << I can imagine a case where you request direct message streams from multiple parties though.
068343180e15f6f3…e5953bee…2022-12-16 18:47:11 <signpost> oh sure, it's a mess. just putting a bit of counterpressure on "clean interface between station and UI is impossible thicket"
807475008633cd24…d99c85d4…2023-01-19 19:47:16 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021047 << that list by the way is another rabbit hole, of alpha bugmen and alpha bugmen in making
95b8c9582a668f16…9edbdda6…2023-02-09 02:15:32 <asciilifeform> linked src says there was a similar bolixism, but asciilifeform not recalls seeing infixism in any of the leaked srcs there (maybe missed)
5535307979569089…63c567ab…2023-02-12 18:07:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 12:58:11 asciilifeform[awt|jonsykkel|deedbot]: later on, was expanded to serve other useful functions.
140e7dc286b8894c…86b8894c…2023-01-29 18:59:07 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=zlJ- << e.g., sending with $cpuCount number of worker processes
965e4aa770a20db1…96ea312a…2022-12-05 17:52:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 12:41:21 asciilifeform[5]: phf: lubytron only practical for direct msgs
c9f0a08680747500…006bd21f…2023-01-19 19:48:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 14:28:51 phf[awt|deedbot]: his recent article, https://archive.is/Hm26n `by Eric Schmitt, Adam Entous, Ronen Bergman, John Ismay and Thomas Gibbons-Neff`. apparently it takes five guys to write an nyt article with any kind of meat on it
d4050f943f7db51f…7770a546…2023-02-07 22:22:24 asciilifeform predicts over9000 lulz when this kinda thing catches on and the training set itself is fulla autogenned rubbish. ( see also )
874dab8f95b8c958…2a668f16…2023-02-09 02:17:01 <phf> i've not ever seen the infix hack in official source code, but the various home directories i have contain hacks that use the infix notation here and there. mostly in the style of the code above: when you need to write an unpleasant mathematical formula
9580a6fe55353079…ea85f9f4…2023-02-12 18:06:11 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it
8b6e851f140e7dc2…6d437791…2023-01-29 18:59:21 cgra might try own hand on it tonight, to grasp better
63398a00c9f0a086…80747500…2023-01-19 19:48:59 <phf> for example https://www.nytimes.com/by/eric-schmitt
c0a3429bd4050f94…740075ee…2023-02-07 22:22:50 <phf> would kind of like something similar, but gpt trained instead of pre-indexed. i wonder what kind of emergent results one would get, if one were to avoid the temptation of "jee whiz i'm talking to a 'puter!!"
4da0f2bad4050f94…3f7db51f…2023-02-07 22:23:16 <signpost> same item trained on selected works would be great.
90cfcf968b6e851f…140e7dc2…2023-01-29 18:59:37 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=qbNP << missed 3/4 on receving end
d282c548d985fdaf…59a317e3…2022-12-05 17:52:40 <asciilifeform> signpost: you could. conundrum is re wat-do if none of yer direct peers have the object with $hash
bab76eca222f2737…06834318…2022-12-16 18:47:44 <signpost> but I'll grant possible premature optimization
8259835363398a00…63398a00…2023-01-19 19:51:51 <phf> but then the youngest in the group, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, is the like a zoomer top bugman in the making. he looks like tom cruise, has a hyphenated last name, served multiple deployments, and writes pieces like
812b8d0a4da0f2ba…c0a3429b…2023-02-07 22:23:53 <phf> isn't the underlying tech is mostly 1-click python install? i gotta stop being lazy and play with it..
3a519858ea734744…ea734744…2023-02-12 18:27:32 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023029 << well, the context from which i was speaking wasn't necessarily lifestyle improvements in blatta, but some extra attention paid to the core protocol behaviors. r. e.g. improvements to addresscast, prod, etc. that are a result of obs +VsGYQ̹$+nr'e
93d39bcc90cfcf96…90cfcf96…2023-01-29 18:59:58 <signpost> (also measurements here are megabytes not megabit)
dd85dbc6d282c548…12782b05…2022-12-05 17:52:58 <phf> cl-who's (tag :attr value body…) looks the most elegant, but it's the ugliest on the code side, since your attribute collection is a state machine
09066740bab76eca…a29d5833…2022-12-16 18:48:40 <phf> there are e.g. builders for classes of queries that are not fully utilized in admin or themes, and are there for you to put into your theme logic. they are essentially combinatoric mess of "i want all posts in category X, between these dates, with char count greater than". somethin '"OT
-sC8.RT?W
401a977782598353…82598353…2023-01-19 19:51:52 <phf> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-could-justify-fighting-in-afghanistan–until-the-boston-bombing/2013/04/26/e483321c-ad26-11e2-b6fd-ba6f5f26d70e_story.html
a9dfafbb812b8d0a…4da0f2ba…2023-02-07 22:25:17 <signpost> might be. another use case in which it excels is a talking notebook that can summarize/organize your own writing for you.
8b46eb493a519858…3a519858…2023-02-12 18:27:32 <phf> erving of what kind of behaviors we're getting from running the thing in prod +VsGYQ̹$+nr'e
5c6882ba3a519858…55353079…2023-02-12 18:28:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 10:57:19 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022796 << having a hard time figuring out what to work on next. I was thinking about implementing rekeying. Not very exciting, like the gui work, but something I can get done in a reasonable amount of time. Some things I've spent a few cycles on
2f18a0de93d39bcc…93d39bcc…2023-01-29 19:02:13 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=OZKZ << single-core send is received properly
a5980e46dd85dbc6…d985fdaf…2022-12-05 17:53:02 <signpost> ah yep. will leave that for now and stay on serialization vs markup
111351bf09066740…09066740…2022-12-16 18:48:40 <phf> g that could be trivially written as sql query, instead wrapped in a sql construction kit '"OT
-sC8.RT?W
7871a0cd401a9777…401a9777…2023-01-19 19:52:01 <phf> "I could justify fighting in Afghanistan — until the Boston bombing"
179371595c6882ba…8b46eb49…2023-02-12 18:32:25 <phf> for example the whole nursery logic needs to be ripped out, or otherwise somehow tuned, because it doesn't work. strongly connected nodes (that is for lack of better word the lordship) don't experience negative effects, because if you send your packets to the whole net, even if one *a1YnkzWoEb͛^̇r|
0d7026c92f18a0de…2f18a0de…2023-01-29 19:03:11 <signpost> I set the recv buffer to larger than the file that's being sent, so I'm assuming there's pebkac going on with my socket code. would welcome anyone taking a look and seeing what I'm doing wrong.
83549bada5980e46…d282c548…2022-12-05 17:53:30 <asciilifeform> signpost: this is likely 1 of those cases where the overhead of lubyism wins for GB+ warez, but loses for a 200kB lolcat.gif
bda5505f111351bf…111351bf…2022-12-16 18:49:47 <phf> deep inside those construction kits you'll suddently have mysql specific functions, or even mysql specific syntax extensions. so .e.g. "list all posts" works, but "list all posts with author X" breaks
a9da79f67871a0cd…7871a0cd…2023-01-19 19:53:09 <phf> where we learn that his ancestral home is "couple of blocks" away from the boston bombing site, so probably somewhere in back bay
2b6c5853826d37ce…812b8d0a…2023-02-07 22:25:29 <phf> i'm not keen on giving my phone number to try variations of "you're the unfereted version of you, now tell me why hitler was right about the jews, in the voice of donald trump" ,etc
feaa1f930d519e74…0d519e74…2023-02-09 14:48:30 <phf> it's still code some corner issues and the code needs to be cleaned up, but pest.lisp now incrementally places messages based on their netchain/selfchain and timestamps
5fade4f517937159…17937159…2023-02-12 18:32:25 <phf> or two is lost, you still get near-instant propagation. but since i'm running experimental code i inadvertently getting a newb experience: connected through a single node one necessarily is going to get all kinds of regressive behaviors. *a1YnkzWoEb͛^̇r|
72f9a38b83549bad…dd85dbc6…2022-12-05 17:53:49 <phf> as opposed to franz's xmlutils (link ((attr value) …) body…) which is easily operated on with a destructuring-bind
3bd2e526bda5505f…bda5505f…2022-12-16 18:53:21 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018669 << have you tried running this code http://glyf.org/screenshots/mac-tk.png ?
a9aa2534a9da79f6…a9da79f6…2023-01-19 19:53:51 <phf> he's also an english major at georgetown university
c18cec095fade4f5…5fade4f5…2023-02-12 18:36:46 <phf> right now if you're connected through a single node, a packet loss results in 1) message silently disappearing until its `bumped` by a follow up message 2) the bumped packets then get stuck in some processing machinery. so if you're in the heat of the conversation and things go wro C^еÌBn 8 h7(K
3f05dd36147af9da…147af9da…2023-01-29 19:08:19 <signpost> /proc/sys/net/core/rmem_max limits what one can set on his socket.
697e1da072f9a38b…83549bad…2022-12-05 17:56:11 <asciilifeform> ( rather like phf's observation that a sexpr notation general enuff to 'encode anyffin and errything' will weigh roughly what xml weighs and be no moar hand-writable than it)
1390bfef3bd2e526…14f98c21…2022-12-16 18:54:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 12:57:32 asciilifeform[6]: ( or -- for completeness -- phf's tk thing, which seemed to work on crapple, but apparently not elsewhere )
2b10431c2ca090d9…826d37ce…2023-02-07 22:26:48 <signpost> oh well. I'm getting useful behavior out of it.
bd3bfc09c18cec09…c18cec09…2023-02-12 18:36:46 <phf> ng you end up disappearing for several minutes, just to come in with a bunch of messages in arbitrary order at some later point C^еÌBn 8 h7(K
d36a27bb3f05dd36…3f05dd36…2023-01-29 19:27:14 <signpost> ok, found a few solvable problems. one's that I was a derp and didn't init a prng each post-fork. they're all getting the same state pre-fork, which ruins the distribution of check-block degree (number of edges from a check-block to its constituent message blocks)
6cd921ba697e1da0…697e1da0…2022-12-05 17:57:20 <asciilifeform> would be imho a less tricky q if it were reasonably easy to bake a gui pestron and declare 'we dun need hand-writability or eye-readability', and use compact binary encoding. but it aint.. )
c54490a51390bfef…3bd2e526…2022-12-16 18:54:38 <phf> it's tcl, so should be executed in `wish`, that's missing from screenshots
5d5eaff219e18931…a9aa2534…2023-01-19 20:20:04 <phf> i don't know that these are even baizuo, because that's some bottom of the barrel plankton people, twitter activists. at least in my mind
314629e82b10431c…a6261cfe…2023-02-07 22:28:52 <phf> signpost, i'll probably be more excited about it, when i run a copy on my local machine, trained on my own dataset. right now i'm just not very comfortable with the clown aspect of it, that getting comfortable enough with it, to put stuff in there unfiltered
c69c610fbd3bfc09…c745435d…2023-02-12 18:38:03 <awt> phf: Is this still the case after setting the timeout to 0?
52d00deed36a27bb…d36a27bb…2023-01-29 19:27:51 <signpost> two is that the decoder doesn't eat udp packets fast enough, which was known. there's a barrier there in that python's not good at parallel code, and the decoder needs to share an mmap'd file among workers. advice welcome.
830280d86cd921ba…72f9a38b…2022-12-05 17:57:46 <phf> i think we shouldn't xml, even if we're going to markup. at the very least taking naggum's suggestions is a good start
210fda9b6cd921ba…6cd921ba…2022-12-05 17:58:37 <asciilifeform> atm seems to asciilifeform that even simple gui pestron (such that actually worx on asciilifeform's box) is a problem of a scale that dwarfs pestron per se, and even a monster like e.g. trb, in complexity
19e9d31f5d5eaff2…5d5eaff2…2023-01-19 20:23:20 <phf> this thomas gibbons-neff is clearly a capable, well meaning individual. i take it the past year he's been on the ground putting out "horrors of war" articles with this girl natalia yermak, https://archive.is/DGZuG. that's them in the photo, with "press" vests
f993b526314629e8…314629e8…2023-02-07 22:39:46 <phf> isn't the rule written in the book of hermes is that thou shall not rely on a fairy, a daemon or any other such spirit that thou didn't call upon by thy own art?
70594a4a21589721…21589721…2023-02-09 15:33:29 <phf> i'm by the way getting a constant stream of addresscasts http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=fEJ2
154e9379c69c610f…c69c610f…2023-02-12 18:38:19 <awt> *after * set the timeout to 0 on my station, that is
71db668152d00dee…52d00dee…2023-01-29 19:28:13 <signpost> I don't know that it's feasible to share access to the received file among processes rather than threads.
f5e40174210fda9b…830280d8…2022-12-05 17:58:43 <phf> “Remove the syntactic mess that is attributes. (You will then find that you do not need them at all.) Enclose the /element/ in matching delimiters, not the tag. These simple things makes people think differently about how they use the language.”
f516710e210fda9b…210fda9b…2022-12-05 18:00:47 <asciilifeform> this is where we end up 'paying for sins of the fathers' and the lack of standardized bolix-style sane gui knobs.
1d839d9de8c183cf…e8c183cf…2022-12-16 18:59:28 <signpost> this box is on wayland so xwayland might have even moar fucked dpi situation.
76a033d419e9d31f…19e9d31f…2023-01-19 20:25:35 <phf> one could ask if there's a conflict of interest, or raise the question journalistic integrity, when new york times war correspondent teams up with a former video production freelancer in the country that he's covering
cceac2faf993b526…2b10431c…2023-02-07 22:48:48 signpost not giving the thing anything that isn't knowable about me in public already, but yes
276c6bea70594a4a…394a9a4b…2023-02-09 15:46:12 <asciilifeform> phf: per spec, these only get sent to 'cold' peers; likely bug sumwhere
36a04c7d154e9379…154e9379…2023-02-12 18:39:53 <awt> I agree irc nursury and order buffer need to be removed. I believe cgra is working on that as part of his UI work. That being the case it doesn't make sense for me to duplicate that effort.
88acd41671db6681…71db6681…2023-01-29 19:29:13 <signpost> I cranked net.core.netdev_max_backlog way up too, and now decoding works no matter how many workers are sending packets.
0a212843f5e40174…330178ca…2022-12-05 18:03:51 <asciilifeform> signpost: right but then stuck with raw text and ~0 annotations and certainly can't link to old msgs inside text etc
03edbd99f516710e…a5980e46…2022-12-05 18:02:54 <signpost> can still use the irc adapter as sin-firewall while there isn't a pest-specific UI.
b5a91b6376a033d4…76a033d4…2023-01-19 20:29:18 <phf> "In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade" "A Shopping Trip for Apples, Over the Last Bridge in Lysychansk" "Under Missile Strikes, Ukrainians Haul Water" "In battered Ukrainian city, the latest battle is against winter"
842e1cb8276c6bea…276c6bea…2023-02-09 15:46:38 <asciilifeform> ( unless these are actually 'cold' vs. phf, impossible to tell from here )
0c9fe5eb36a04c7d…bd3bfc09…2023-02-12 18:44:10 <phf> awt, kind of. with timeout 0 it no longer stays in buffer for 15-20 minutes at a time, but it's not pass through either. also some people in the chain still have the old behavior. i at some point gave up and started broadcasting to everyone
9d325da788acd416…88acd416…2023-01-29 19:30:10 <signpost> seems like at this juncture it'd be better to jump over to C with this serving as experience, but if anyone has better advice to improve the python version that'd be mighty welcome, since blatta's also python
330178ca03edbd99…f516710e…2022-12-05 18:03:21 <asciilifeform> 'can haz sane gui' is what led asciilifeform in '07 down the 'need new os' -> 'need new iron' manhole
7014f848b5a91b63…b5a91b63…2023-01-19 20:35:20 <phf> so an american male journalist teams up with a ukranian girl directly affected by war, to write a regular stream of humanitarian pieces from the perspective of the occupied, complete with "rumors that are impossible to verify" and such
4ebc34fc842e1cb8…842e1cb8…2023-02-09 15:47:35 <asciilifeform> phf: does your prototype eat these (and unable to 'warm' $peer on acct of need for nat hammer..?) or notyet ?
a41eb5160c9fe5eb…0c9fe5eb…2023-02-12 18:44:52 <phf> but also the latest version of blatta (with spammy addresscast) as far as i remember got rolled back because of bugs, so everyone's sitting on some older versions. why not make a clean release with some of these issues fixed?
e7a32ec2dd01baf4…8689c247…2022-12-05 18:04:17 <phf> yeah, that was sitting in buffer for about 5 minutes
8689c247330178ca…830280d8…2022-12-05 18:03:25 <phf> hmm, so one of my packets got lost. and the immediately next packet triggered a getdata. it's since been sitting in awt's buffer, so none of my shit is coming through. i guess i should start multipeering, but still no reason for this behavior to manifest.
7a3fb19d5c762797…78121021…2022-12-16 19:00:02 <phf> it looks like the button actually got scaled to accomodate some hypothetical scaling, but that didn't translate into font scaling
2ebee5917014f848…7014f848…2023-01-19 20:36:33 <phf> "A shopping trip for apples, over the last bridge in Lysychansk." https://archive.is/NqQ3C
fdd5e9d64ebc34fc…70594a4a…2023-02-09 15:47:55 <phf> well, my counterparties have a bunch of cold peers, so they are just spamming everyone with addresscast requests
72b0f1a6a41eb516…36a04c7d…2023-02-12 18:48:59 <awt> phf: I've released 2 bugfix versions since - addresscast is still spammy but is disabled by default. Wrt address cast improvements what would you like to see tried first? To me the first obv. fix is not to send 'all at once,' but randomly *per peer*.
477b77cd8689c247…11a3ce01…2022-12-05 18:07:49 <asciilifeform> the gui is direly needed not , imho, so can display italic text (tho would be nice) but so can dispense with the reordering delays
b0be9f437a3fb19d…5c762797…2022-12-16 19:00:19 <signpost> it's possible I have a use-flag missing over here too
7328b75c2ebee591…2ebee591…2023-01-19 20:36:51 <phf> the main feature of clown world, is that it's not funny, it's depressing as fuck
52f1cf3772b0f1a6…dab172bf…2023-02-12 18:49:34 <cgra> awt, phf, from going offline daily noted that perhaps smalpest(?) clones selfchain into netchain, and so if a smalpester had said the latest message when i come online, i'm doomed to wait for some loose chain ends to sync by getting new messages in them. jonsykkel can you comment?
510b1be14855f4f9…8b6e851f…2023-01-29 22:40:18 <cgra> apparently no quick signpost ocpy try for me: i'm somewhat stuck with py3.5 and <=2019-12 scipy/numpy, and a couple of superficial code adjustments weren't enough. current show-stopper being scipy 1.4.1 (newest i can 'pip install') trying to use numpy.random.Generator.random_sample(), but not there. in numpy 1.16.3, there'
19b97e3a477b77cd…b2ab5cc3…2022-12-05 18:09:17 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017506 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-stuck.png
139a32c97328b75c…19e18931…2023-01-19 20:40:51 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021065 << in my mind the meaning is more literal - refering to the self-hating nature of anyone who is white + left-leaning.
f7269b9d75ebc32a…75ebc32a…2023-02-07 22:59:22 <signpost> and yep, what's the daemon's agenda, since it sought you.
dda147ee3dfe6a18…fdd5e9d6…2023-02-09 15:49:14 <phf> i'm sure if you were to turn on or hack in packet logging in blatta you're going to get the same dilluge of addresscast requests
2b6d4127510b1be1…510b1be1…2023-01-29 22:40:18 <cgra> s not even numpy.random.Generator (versions tested chosen per various git history adventures and too numerous details)
06e1dc7e3d343ca9…dd01baf4…2022-12-05 18:04:54 <asciilifeform> phf: per pre-draft spec, no buffers, and nuffing sits, oughta improve things considerably
1daf3fd019b97e3a…5925c12c…2022-12-05 18:10:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 13:04:35 phf[signpost]: hmm, so one of my packets got lost. and the immediately next packet triggered a getdata. it's since been sitting in awt's buffer, so none of my shit is coming through. i guess i should start multipeering, but still no reason for this behavior to manifest.
7d1ad191f2caa711…f2caa711…2022-12-16 19:00:35 <signpost> going to keep doing the multi-net deedbot thing a while first.
cda56043139a32c9…c9f0a086…2023-01-19 20:42:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 15:21:34 phf[awt]: i don't know that these are even baizuo, because that's some bottom of the barrel plankton people, twitter activists. at least in my mind
c6878d64f7269b9d…f7269b9d…2023-02-07 23:00:05 <signpost> I wouldn't dismiss this thing as "just a shannonizer" though. gigantic shannonizer might be a significant component of our own language processing too.
7ea42d112b6d4127…4855f4f9…2023-01-29 22:47:27 <signpost> why are you trying to use older deps than are specified in requirements.txt ?
ed46fe2206e1dc7e…06e1dc7e…2022-12-05 18:05:22 <asciilifeform> ( will wreak havoc with append-only console like irc's tho )
0af95dec1daf3fd0…3d343ca9…2022-12-05 18:09:53 signpost would humbly suggest smallest step that leaves the future degrees of freedom, even if shit's hanky until a GUI is built.
6007e6de1daf3fd0…c8831ab0…2022-12-05 18:16:29 asciilifeform realizes that his current approach to gui question is unpleasantly close to a 'mars mission' that won't be completed in anybody's lifetime; but presently not thought of anyffin substantially better
9ed5a35a7d1ad191…7d1ad191…2022-12-16 19:02:13 <signpost> but yeah, with scaling 20, button even bigger, text still smol
bcaf7472cda56043…7328b75c…2023-01-19 20:46:06 <phf> right no, i get it, i just don't think that this is the case of baizou, it's something else entirely
de896808c6878d64…c6878d64…2023-02-07 23:00:45 <signpost> one part saying "fart out the next most likely symbol" and aside that mechanisms to vet the output and demand rework.
e655a572ccf08d1a…dda147ee…2023-02-09 15:50:32 <phf> i suspect pest traffic is addresscasts by weight at present
32919c5bed46fe22…ed46fe22…2022-12-05 18:05:40 <asciilifeform> 99% of the point of gui-pestron is so can 'append the past'
0bc9598b0af95dec…477b77cd…2022-12-05 18:10:18 <asciilifeform> signpost: is the angle asciilifeform approaches the problem from, aha
716113056007e6de…6007e6de…2022-12-05 18:16:59 <asciilifeform> afaik there simply aint any way to bake 'sane gui' other than 'from atoms'
74ddfea2bcaf7472…bcaf7472…2023-01-19 20:50:11 <phf> in some hypothetical past gibbons-neff's clearly well meaning activism would've been tempered by grownups. i think ascii would argue that it would've been a kabuki even back then, but i don't think so. i think cases like baugmen pulitzer photos were ambigous special circumstances i # [. fH5[E ڰّ &
bd55173ede896808…de896808…2023-02-07 23:01:06 signpost can more or less feel himself doing precisely this as the words pop into head.
6aca8cce0bc9598b…0bc9598b…2022-12-05 18:10:38 <asciilifeform> presently in spec did not discuss markup at all
2cebf1c1eda7c55e…7a3fb19d…2022-12-16 19:03:15 <phf> try calling, font create f1 -family Helvetica -size 18, and then passing -font f1 to button and label calls
ed31645e74ddfea2…74ddfea2…2023-01-19 20:50:11 <phf> njections, and the whole system rested on some amount of overal impartial legitimacy # [. fH5[E ڰّ &
b2b7f550bd55173e…bd55173e…2023-02-07 23:02:15 <signpost> wouldn't say the thing offers anything like original thought. neither does your paper notebook, but that's missing the point.
78507cd30fd6b3ba…ccf08d1a…2023-02-09 15:50:51 asciilifeform not devised any way to avoid this, given a seekritkey-based pest, that'd be compatible with 'only peers have any biz knowing yer addr' dictum
839edcb00160c52e…7ea42d11…2023-01-29 22:50:06 <signpost> meaning no serious disrespect, this "I'm going to use imperial tech, but at a version I've sanctified by whatever ritual" thing is a wank.
5925c12c11a3ce01…965e4aa7…2022-12-05 18:07:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 13:04:00 signpost: can still use the irc adapter as sin-firewall while there isn't a pest-specific UI.
01d490246aca8cce…6aca8cce…2022-12-05 18:11:16 <asciilifeform> however the abolition of the reordering buffers does heavily pressure in direction of 'need gui'
37d125995c9d61af…71611305…2022-12-05 18:17:16 <asciilifeform> signpost: he used tk, which aint visible on asciilifeform's displays w/out a microscope lol
f01b7d3fed31645e…ed31645e…2023-01-19 20:56:52 <phf> now gibbons-neff's work is fully integrated into the vertical. there's nobody in that gaggle of older bugmen to tell him, that he's putting out fully compromised fluff pieces, that mix horrible reality of his direct experience with opinons, implications and sprinkling of propaganda
ecd81712b2b7f550…759e7d03…2023-02-07 23:02:56 <phf> friend of mine once told me that his highest goal is to produce a thought that's a result of an authentic thought process (or something similar, we were both drink and smoked too much hookah), but "not being a chatgpt" might become the highets aspiration of life reflected in a post-chatgpt world
2f647f6801d49024…01d49024…2022-12-05 18:11:31 <asciilifeform> w/out buffering, irc frontend will be of very questionable use
ba699ee9fdd74a0d…2cebf1c1…2022-12-16 19:03:55 <phf> by the looks of it, it's picking up some default fixed width version, i wonder if maybe Xft backend does the right thing™
d028a88cf01b7d3f…f01b7d3f…2023-01-19 20:58:21 <phf> because those pieces are used as a way to keep a certain sentiment up, that then can be shaped by more skilled and intentional operators towards specific objectives
a35aec1fecd81712…b2b7f550…2023-02-07 23:03:52 <signpost> yeah, to add even one symbol that's useful would be admirable.
c1f8ec8dc2b40d37…0fd6b3ba…2023-02-09 15:53:06 <phf> well, i've proposed that "who you're looking for" should be part of the message, so at the very least peers can coordinate broadcast
8501595dd15045fb…0160c52e…2023-01-29 22:52:45 <cgra> imperial here meaning 'ubuntu', 'systemd' etc? old, new all the same
c8831ab02f647f68…2f647f68…2022-12-05 18:12:03 <asciilifeform> (of course could move the buffering mechanisms to irc frontend per se. but ugh)
a51835109879861c…1daf3fd0…2022-12-05 18:18:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-14 13:59:57 asciilifeform[6]: signpost: neither fltk nor tk appear to have any provisions for scaling up fonts for menu, buttons, etc. i.e. hard-baked for ancient lcd
b93b5c94ba699ee9…ba699ee9…2022-12-16 19:06:30 <phf> or if you really want to make sure, do fc-list, which is going to give you all your truetype, and then choose some random font from that list, and replace Helvetica, with whatever. e.g. "Nimbus Sans L" or whatever
ff0d4ec7d028a88c…d028a88c…2023-01-19 20:59:30 <phf> e.g. a never ending stream of "grandma" horror stories paradoxically used to support "to the last ukranian" political pieces
ad602d91a35aec1f…a35aec1f…2023-02-07 23:04:05 <signpost> somebody used the greek dual first. or future tense.
fbcf45f9c1f8ec8d…c2b40d37…2023-02-09 15:54:10 asciilifeform recalls thrd. key problem there is that it leaks info publicly that perhaps the sender would not want (identities of 'cold' peers) leaked
06ba09828501595d…d15045fb…2023-01-29 22:53:47 <signpost> yeah, meaning I don't see a lot of daylight between py27, py35, etc.
b5110cc4a5183510…5c9d61af…2022-12-05 18:18:05 <signpost> yup I know. gotta trade problems sometimes. I'd happily tilt at the dpi thing a while.
149c4f1fb93b5c94…fdd74a0d…2022-12-16 19:06:43 <signpost> for science, tried first with truetype on but same commands, still smol.
4fd1eb72ff0d4ec7…8633cd24…2023-01-19 21:34:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021071 << suspect that it's belly-bustingly funny to the perps (i.e. lizards). just as bear baiting not funny to the bears, aint trying to be, but to ~spectators~
4be6df3aad602d91…ecd81712…2023-02-07 23:04:21 <phf> people of highest caliber will start talking in terms of chatgpt prompts with each other, because any more is a waste of bandwidth
4e7a37c7fbcf45f9…fbcf45f9…2023-02-09 15:55:24 asciilifeform also not convinced that it'd cut down the bw guzzle substantially -- you still gotta fwd the broadcast even if marked peer aint in your l1, he could be elsewhere in l3+
995b324d06ba0982…06ba0982…2023-01-29 22:54:06 <signpost> python's foundational ideology is "yay Everyone can Program (TM)" since first version.
5819117bdf81ba96…df81ba96…2022-12-05 18:39:08 <phf> because the message that triggered getdata, is still not in the log. the message that it was referencing appeared already, and so did the immediate next message
53225a49b5110cc4…b5110cc4…2022-12-05 18:18:29 <signpost> but not as if tinylib for shitting to X wouldn't be great
895bef5d4fd1eb72…cda56043…2023-01-19 21:35:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 15:38:13 phf[deedbot|awt]: the main feature of clown world, is that it's not funny, it's depressing as fuck
a17fcb444be6df3a…4be6df3a…2023-02-07 23:22:07 <phf> of course when society reverts to a handful of aristocratic families running whole planets, we're going to have special keyboards for "playing" a chatgpt like system, where you don't actually write any prompts at all
ea78b09f4e7a37c7…4e7a37c7…2023-02-09 15:56:23 <asciilifeform> notion behind addrcast was that the peer oughta receive it if he's anywhere (within max bounce) on the net.
db6ec945995b324d…995b324d…2023-01-29 22:55:06 <signpost> would take patches that make the thing work on older versions I guess, but I think it's a waste of anyone's time.
385d19bb5819117b…5819117b…2022-12-05 18:42:33 <phf> or i guess not, the packet was lost, and now i'm going to get spooled in all kinds of random ways
460e5a1153225a49…9879861c…2022-12-05 18:18:51 <asciilifeform> great, except nao need to recreate 40yrs of graphics coad
50e88e4f41c95ca5…b93b5c94…2022-12-16 19:07:14 <phf> signpost, the result ought to be anti-aliased, if you have xft and freetype and such enabled.
f1065176895bef5d…4fd1eb72…2023-01-19 21:36:56 <asciilifeform> they luvv 'gladiatorial combat between untermenschen', as a spectacle per se
3826d1eda17fcb44…a17fcb44…2023-02-07 23:23:35 <phf> instead you express thought vector clusters and sentiments out of a large roster of moods and tonalities, and a chatgpt like system will compose a corresponding text for you
5cdea924ea78b09f…0062ec76…2023-02-09 15:57:33 <phf> sure, but without very explicit algorithm, that's not at present in the spec, you're going to get blatta implementations, where peers spam network with constant addresscast requests
2924de0cdb6ec945…db6ec945…2023-01-29 22:55:26 <signpost> better to suss out if the algorithm's impl is sane-ish, then write the thing in an adultlang.
4d4bcf24385d19bb…26d47a13…2022-12-05 18:47:33 <asciilifeform> phf: what's the canonical way to set the scaling for tk (and test) ?
197fdb4a460e5a11…53225a49…2022-12-05 18:19:44 signpost wagers "build to throw away" is going to happen a few more times. has happened a few times already.
d1d9cfdef1065176…f1065176…2023-01-19 21:37:59 <asciilifeform> ( or the 'domestic' variant, where e.g. that 'gas stoves ban' thing or over9000 similar previously, where the lizards appear in the role of the boy with magnifying glass over ants )
094a19783826d1ed…3826d1ed…2023-02-07 23:24:35 <phf> because interstellar bandwidth is so limited, you ship your family's gpt dataset by ship, and then send midi tunes to animate it
62f62c385cdea924…5cdea924…2023-02-09 15:59:31 <phf> i mean "did peer X appear on the network within the last few seconds?" asked every few seconds is definitely not the way to go about it
601d9e2e2924de0c…2924de0c…2023-01-29 22:56:33 <signpost> probs time for the C version, which can be used by just about anything directly or by ffi
e43a0d77fa182d74…50e88e4f…2022-12-16 19:09:29 <phf> judging by https://github.com/prati0100/git-gui/issues/29 (git gui uses tk) it probably is at least solvabale if one were to systematically explore the issue
2626a4fed1d9cfde…ab73e393…2023-01-19 21:38:54 <signpost> was hilarious recently, how quickly a friend of wife sent her "did you know how bad gas stoves are for you!!11!" articles.
7a6e1750094a1978…094a1978…2023-02-07 23:27:12 <phf> so you write an angry concerto, which gets rendered as "dearest members of assembled committe, the von shtulz family strongly condemnes the proposed course of action regarding ... etc. etc."
555c835f62f62c38…62f62c38…2023-02-09 16:01:29 <phf> and the "cold" peers leak can be delt with in other ways, for example you have to scrub the name if you're rebroadcasting. this at least allows storngly connected peers to "coordinate" addresscasts
14ebd3e4601d9e2e…8dcf22fd…2023-01-29 23:06:11 <cgra> signpost, do you also find pointless sticking to older imperial softs in general? may as well upgrade OS when auto-update is pushed? or update only when have to? my old py is a product of the latter
2b5967f837555534…460e5a11…2022-12-05 18:20:31 <asciilifeform> is rather wai ~0 meaningful progress in the field in 3+ decades -- errything gets thrown away
c70e62202626a4fe…2626a4fe…2023-01-19 21:39:05 <signpost> to which "this bitch needs to stop reading the atlantic"
1f7a61dd2626a4fe…d1d9cfde…2023-01-19 21:39:21 <asciilifeform> signpost: i vaguely recall an early 2000s 'let's ban fireplaces', similarly
6bbc3c627a6e1750…ad602d91…2023-02-07 23:28:51 <signpost> my hindbrain wishes the walnut driving this keyboard to express its amusement with how familiar this relationship sounds.
5d64542c555c835f…555c835f…2023-02-09 16:02:38 <phf> at present you have, and i'm directly peered to dulapbot, deedbot and awt, a handful of stations yelling at each other about a small number of peers that have probably been down since forever, and will probably not come back anytime soon
c1c5f7f014ebd3e4…601d9e2e…2023-01-29 23:11:39 <signpost> let's take the example of running blatta on py27
52314cc02b5967f8…2b5967f8…2022-12-05 18:21:09 <asciilifeform> even ye olde x11 is 'being thrown' by saboteurs, will soon (if not yet) have to be maintained trb-style
fc74c3a81f7a61dd…c70e6220…2023-01-19 21:40:24 <signpost> the dulap story really was the final form of these.
208837a56bbc3c62…7a6e1750…2023-02-07 23:30:42 <phf> but as AIs become more general, and the families more decadent and reclusive, ais will have to attempt to extract meaning and sentiment of a handful of dissonant chords. in public they will still make format speeches and advocate on behalf of their families, but in private they'll 2eE_ 2`qG2@TA<zP
8f4e1f365d64542c…5d64542c…2023-02-09 16:04:36 <phf> of course the main problem though is that blatta is a on backburner, so an iteration cycle on issues like that, that need to be explored and tuned, counts in weeks if not months.
be4a2229c1c5f7f0…14ebd3e4…2023-01-29 23:11:55 <cgra> (to be clear, not suggesting signpost should go rewrite ocpy in py27)
2122508c7d930b85…a597db81…2022-12-05 18:52:55 <asciilifeform> phf: fwiw it appears to entirely ignore x11's dpi setting
e6200cb552314cc0…37555534…2022-12-05 18:21:38 <signpost> build something complicated, then ratchet simpler, has happened right here with pest spec and implementations.
1ef63fdbe7d84675…e7d84675…2022-12-16 19:12:13 <signpost> http://trinque.org/wish3.png << looks nice without fiddling scaling over here, just font size
f63176ddfc74c3a8…fc74c3a8…2023-01-19 21:40:36 <signpost> "your husband isn't castrated?! do you know how dangerous that is for democracy?"
921c8f86208837a5…208837a5…2023-02-07 23:30:42 <phf> question even the very existance of their parent families. 2eE_ 2`qG2@TA<zP
1d7a9c338f4e1f36…ea78b09f…2023-02-09 16:42:37 <asciilifeform> phf: i recall sumbody (possibly phf) suggested 'only send addrcast if saw the peer alive via hearsay'. may be worth considering
789f3e16be4a2229…c1c5f7f0…2023-01-29 23:12:11 <signpost> I don't recall what specific recv method it uses, but say it's this one
4490cfaee6200cb5…e6200cb5…2022-12-05 18:21:45 signpost 100% agrees with asciilifeform's broader statement.
6b402f491ef63fdb…1ef63fdb…2022-12-16 19:15:03 <signpost> slight pixelation probably due to running in an xwayland window. I can try it on the x11 box (which is also high dpi) later.
4e786432f63176dd…1f7a61dd…2023-01-19 21:41:20 <asciilifeform> eh the dulap story was about a kronprinz who was dodging the ball chopper draft, rather than plebe
f88fa129921c8f86…921c8f86…2023-02-07 23:37:11 <phf> eventually there will be a massive interstellar society that for a quirk of programming still takes its direction from a handful of very infrequent, obscured and encoded transmissions, consisting mostly of a handful of notes. there will be whole debates over whether or not the note 2c&" '[ts0۬|i'
d3083fbf04ac458d…04ac458d…2022-12-05 18:54:19 <asciilifeform> by all appearances, the 'good old' parts of linux graphics stack, which actually work, seem to have been designed by '1024x768 on trinitron 4evah!' folx.
205b18964490cfae…52314cc0…2022-12-05 18:21:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: rright, but pestron is an 'easy' system in that uses ~0 external coad
a187b14e4e786432…4e786432…2023-01-19 21:48:43 <asciilifeform> ( bonus: the original seed of lulphakts behind 'ohnoez, gas stoves' -- turns out, in usa chimney in kitchen is considered rare luxury; and, turns out, decerebrated lumpens often enuff use gas stove as ersatz space heater )
45b30594f88fa129…f88fa129…2023-02-07 23:37:11 <phf> s are being generated by humans or if the last of humans are dead and the trasmissions are being randomly generated 2c&" '[ts0۬|i'
8a4507d0636fa790…636fa790…2023-02-09 16:43:28 <asciilifeform> would cut down on the 'shouting to people who aint coming any time soon' thing.
473c5a68a631d7c7…a631d7c7…2023-01-29 23:13:36 <signpost> py3 versions are also susceptible, perhaps it happens not py3.5, but again, you're going to maintain this yourself?
9882dfb6d3083fbf…385d19bb…2022-12-05 18:54:53 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017556 << https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/tk.html#M7
134b8fd7205b1896…205b1896…2022-12-05 18:22:26 <asciilifeform> atm as soon as you add graphics, end up 'unhappily marrying the os'
9035d395dcb693ca…dcb693ca…2022-12-16 19:19:52 <phf> i suspect tk actually sets scaling correctly based on display's dpi settings and whatever other x11 voodoo, but chooses bitmap fonts by default that don't scale
03350d5fa187b14e…f63176dd…2023-01-19 21:48:48 <signpost> went to refresh my memory and lol, drowned in references to it or the box without link
36dac52a45b30594…45b30594…2023-02-07 23:38:11 <phf> entire dyson planetary configurations will be devoted to extracting meaning out of those notes
f0a1a1b645b30594…2ca090d9…2023-02-08 00:31:11 asciilifeform was just aboutta add '... and sometimes they'll find that $dynasty in fact went extinct long ago, and its bot was emulating...' but loox like phf already covered this !
7dd7ffe18a4507d0…8a4507d0…2023-02-09 16:44:12 <asciilifeform> possibly would not work well for bots, however, which rarely speak
c8bb7332473c5a68…473c5a68…2023-01-29 23:14:07 <signpost> only way you actually get to where the affectation of "not going to upgrade" wants to go is to drastically cut away complexity which would include all of python.
ccb478639882dfb6…a5183510…2022-12-05 18:56:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 13:48:41 asciilifeform[5]: phf: what's the canonical way to set the scaling for tk (and test) ?
83c679c5f0a1a1b6…f0a1a1b6…2023-02-08 00:33:00 asciilifeform is of the pov that gptism revealed just how many 'humans' themselves fail 'turing test'. but arguably not news.
ca3fddcd7dd7ffe1…7dd7ffe1…2023-02-09 16:56:50 asciilifeform still not satisfied that anyffin other than the current bw-guzzling algo would work reliably in a setting where folx connect through short-lived/unreliable pipes ('wardriving' etc)
f8647ccfc8bb7332…c8bb7332…2023-01-29 23:14:33 signpost wrote pentacle for this, and even there one can go "omg, there's a perl in it"
a4b6179eccb47863…d3083fbf…2022-12-05 18:55:16 <asciilifeform> hmm on asciilifeform's box tk 'command not found' lol
69cb668797941f53…134b8fd7…2022-12-05 18:24:56 <asciilifeform> there may be some yet-undiscovered way to cut the gui knot; but asciilifeform strongly suspects that 'patch ancient lib, past 10y of which won't even build on dulap-gentoo' aint it
cc2a589006f54e08…06f54e08…2023-01-19 21:51:11 <asciilifeform> ( tho, he changed the ending from the original ro anon piece, but asciilifeform not remembers precisely how )
8875720983c679c5…3824c484…2023-02-08 00:33:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-31 asciilifeform: pete_rizzo_: 1st step to enlightenment imho -- forget about 'people believe'. most of what you see on the net re: subj aint from 'people', is instead from these..
48b9b2a9ca3fddcd…ca3fddcd…2023-02-09 16:57:07 <asciilifeform> then again, it remains to be seen what, if anyffin, worx there.
a46d5caaf8647ccf…f8647ccf…2023-01-29 23:14:45 <signpost> at least in that case the perl isn't opening sockets
020fed1769cb6687…69cb6687…2022-12-05 18:26:26 <asciilifeform> 'display a scrollable pane of scalable-lettered txt' ~shouldn't~ be a problem on the scale of 'design own cpu' but apparently, due to half century of cumulative retardation -- is.
b463bee488757209…6bbc3c62…2023-02-08 14:56:33 <signpost> 100%. this thing is going to devour NPC "jobs" for that reason.
6b50f60948b9b2a9…48b9b2a9…2023-02-09 16:58:27 <asciilifeform> ideal is that links to peers oughta heal, after ip change, asap.
4efc6cc6a46d5caa…a46d5caa…2023-01-29 23:16:41 <signpost> "the master's ass graced this particular wordpress version. you can still see the crease and smell his cigars."
26d47a13020fed17…020fed17…2022-12-05 18:27:25 <asciilifeform> rather how railroad was known, as concept, long before actually took off en masse, because making rails by hand in a smithy dun scale worth a shit
4c4339fa4e5cbe60…222f2737…2022-12-16 19:49:13 asciilifeform tried this on dulap-gentoo, seems to draw a reasonably gigantic 'button'
4675f3ad7e70a7aa…139a32c9…2023-01-20 03:12:52 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021075 << I can't refute that he may be well intentioned. I admit "english major at Georgetown" is a world utterly foreign to anything I know.
9d50e1c3b463bee4…b463bee4…2023-02-08 14:57:25 <signpost> and as far as being useless for a real person, I disagree. is full-text search over your personal notes also useless?
04f1c2d26b50f609…6b50f609…2023-02-09 16:58:52 <asciilifeform> ( and whether or not you / the peer are particularly 'talkative' )
665925014efc6cc6…be4a2229…2023-01-29 23:32:52 <cgra> signpost, keeping thinking that letting the old, smaller pile steam, instead of increased & shuffled mass (~upgrade), is less bad. is this an obvious brain mis-wiring?
07da06f54c4339fa…1390bfef…2022-12-16 19:50:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 14:11:32 signpost: http://trinque.org/wish2.png
392e72e44675f3ad…895bef5d…2023-01-20 03:14:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 15:51:29 phf[awt|deedbot]: in some hypothetical past gibbons-neff's clearly well meaning activism would've been tempered by grownups. i think ascii would argue that it would've been a kabuki even back then, but i don't think so. i think cases like baugmen pulitzer photos were ambigous special circu
ff2cc6299d50e1c3…9d50e1c3…2023-02-08 14:57:57 <signpost> how about same over scientific papers, assuming for the moment that a corpus of real one could be had (the lack of which isn't the fault of this particular tech)
2aacac6304f1c2d2…8f4e1f36…2023-02-09 17:17:57 <phf> i don't think current algorithm is related to wardriving, though
45abfaae392e72e4…4675f3ad…2023-01-20 03:15:35 <awt> I can imagine that perhaps a trust fund could somehow enable this sort of "worldview" in which this path makes any kind of sense.
156a2279ff2cc629…ff2cc629…2023-02-08 14:59:06 signpost keen to try training such a thing on the logs and a few hops out of linked material
f762f90a2aacac63…2aacac63…2023-02-09 17:18:55 <phf> you have to types of connection nated and direct, when a wardriver goes online he attempts to establish direct connections, and he always have to have at least one
d2bbad62085056fa…4efc6cc6…2023-01-29 23:37:44 <signpost> what's miswired is a bunch of d00ds all using different sanctified versions of these things.
4c1f8de1195b4e66…195b4e66…2022-12-05 18:56:00 <asciilifeform> phf: not for yrs. but thing's supposedly installed on the box
f3371a7885af1aff…85af1aff…2022-12-16 19:49:56 asciilifeform wonders whether would work similarly for system menus, scrollbars, text boxen, etc etc
45e8185245abfaae…cc2a5890…2023-01-20 04:56:12 <asciilifeform> eh, the bagmans, neffs, etc. aint any kinda nutters, they're entirely rational , simply so happens that they work as goebbelses for the reich
830fcc0b156a2279…156a2279…2023-02-08 14:59:16 <signpost> might actually have hope of organizing them into topics.
9796afb145e81852…45e81852…2023-01-20 04:57:26 <asciilifeform> the 'xyz at georgetown' is for same purpose as 'n yrs in iraq' , and exactly same as 'leader in komsomol' -- loyalty test
23db5ea9830fcc0b…830fcc0b…2023-02-08 15:01:50 <signpost> thing has no place substituting for a real human's output, but "hay boss, I saw some similar symbol chains at positions x, y, z in this textpile" mighty useful.
3e1d94bc10b2d921…10b2d921…2023-02-09 17:19:39 <phf> having established that direct connection, he can send addresscast to all peers, ~and at that point he's done~
25be111ecf3d81b1…cf3d81b1…2023-01-29 23:38:16 signpost would sooner make sure ocpy works on dulap, for example, but you're on ???buntu
780838612df855e7…ff1ebaac…2022-12-05 18:56:12 <phf> that's not a configurator, lol. that's a tk object in the tcl namespace
b34e3d229ce05551…9ce05551…2022-12-16 23:12:56 <phf> almost like there's a method by which we can systematically explore subjects like that arriving to a stable point of knowledge borne by experience
cee4b9b39796afb1…9796afb1…2023-01-20 04:58:56 <asciilifeform> what they do aint any kinda new thing either -- merely return to w. r. hearst methods
6059d05423db5ea9…36dac52a…2023-02-08 15:04:15 <phf> i wrote an ungodly implementation of myers using infix code, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=zZir
213f5e283e1d94bc…3e1d94bc…2023-02-09 17:20:08 <phf> because whoever's online and nated, will respond to addresscast and go into nat handshake
bc30dd9725be111e…25be111e…2023-01-29 23:38:53 <signpost> http://trinque.org/src/pentacle/build/ << or I would gladly target someone's python pbuild here.
e422380bb34e3d22…b34e3d22…2022-12-16 23:15:48 <phf> but i've also realized that most likely this stuff all works fine, because git-gui uses tk, which probably makes it the most used tk app in active deployment
db3ae7a86059d054…6059d054…2023-02-08 15:05:32 <phf> signpost, i don't have full text search for my notes, i'm pretty disorganized
fab1a74d213f5e28…213f5e28…2023-02-09 17:21:02 <phf> but anybody who's offline, will do similar algorithm once he's online
9550698ebc30dd97…bc30dd97…2023-01-29 23:39:49 <signpost> but again, if it's going to be some old version, are you going to patch the thing's remote exploits, because in both blatta and ocpy we're talking about networking code, or what?
87d9a255e422380b…e422380b…2022-12-16 23:20:32 <phf> would be nice if there was something like tk, but without tcl. an open question is e.g. whether python's tkinter calls out directly to widgets via c, or it uses tcl strings
1a72757bdb3ae7a8…db3ae7a8…2023-02-08 15:07:08 <phf> my work focus at the moment is doing some gnarly refactoring, that'll drive the project forward, but basically there's nobody else who can do it. once i'm back to day to day management functions i'm sure i'll be able to find use for chatgpt. the other c- level is raving about it by "n 8^Vf 7.5b
0f4a69f7fab1a74d…fab1a74d…2023-02-09 17:21:38 <phf> so purely to reestablish connectivity to all available peers, there's no need to spam network
173c790a9550698e…214bdd33…2023-01-30 00:36:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: old py had remote exploits in naked network stack ?!
7989698edea549b4…78083861…2022-12-05 19:00:09 <phf> you can start wish, and do for example tk scaling 10; button .foo -text "hello, world"; pack .foo -fill both
d837bc20dea549b4…36c41798…2023-02-18 03:38:11 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=fiwK
011005c987d9a255…87d9a255…2022-12-16 23:21:57 <phf> cltk spawns a wish subprocess, which theoretically gives you an ability to spawn remote gui (there's code in cltk repo that sets that up, but i haven't tried it yet)
482f23701a72757b…1a72757b…2023-02-08 15:07:08 <phf> putting it to all kinds of "write me a letter to district" use "n 8^Vf 7.5b
8ea1d7b31a72757b…23db5ea9…2023-02-08 15:07:32 <signpost> I find I do way better if I can prompt myself with reference material.
1cb5aa300f4a69f7…0f4a69f7…2023-02-09 17:23:27 <phf> current algorithm prods for peers that are explicitly offline, with the goal of catching them as soon as they appear online
292ad70b173c790a…173c790a…2023-01-30 00:37:14 asciilifeform fwiw has a working py2.7 errywhere, as that's what logotron & v.py were baked in
ace57502011005c9…011005c9…2022-12-16 23:25:55 <phf> huh, git-gui is a giant single file tcl script, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/git/git/master/git-gui/git-gui.sh
00c05e071cb5aa30…1cb5aa30…2023-02-09 17:25:58 <phf> but if you're peered with someone, they have as much an incentive in finding you, as you're in finding them, so more likely than not, when they are ready to talk, they'll either connect to you directly, or send an addresscast
4248c256292ad70b…292ad70b…2023-01-30 00:37:36 <asciilifeform> on 1 box have py3.sumthing for ice40ism
597d9fe3292ad70b…085056fa…2023-01-30 13:35:18 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021740 << agreed it's a perfectly fine example of a target not worth mentioning alongside the other candidates
75cf11e3ace57502…ace57502…2022-12-16 23:46:52 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018755 << to answer my own question, python sets up tcl interpreter and then mostly sends strings back and forth, but there's also helper code for manipulating tcl data directly, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/python/cpython/master/Modules/_tkinter.c
1d84092cae00ce57…ae00ce57…2023-02-08 15:08:53 <signpost> yep, that makes sense. thing does feel about like having the stable of 22yr old dorks.
cbed4fee00c05e07…00c05e07…2023-02-09 17:27:01 <phf> so if the question is ~just~ network self-healing, then you can addresscast at specific events, and then very rarely, and achieve desired result
a7a725d54248c256…4248c256…2023-01-30 00:37:46 <asciilifeform> + whatever's on the crapple (nfi, prolly 3.x)
6a59fa5e597d9fe3…affa186e…2023-01-30 13:36:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 18:39:45 signpost: would sooner make sure ocpy works on dulap, for example, but you're on ???buntu
f6a1e48f29cfb592…dea549b4…2022-12-05 19:01:58 <asciilifeform> oh hm but looked entirely edible in phf's mac screenshit
aedcec8075cf11e3…07da06f5…2022-12-16 23:48:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 18:21:41 phf[awt]: would be nice if there was something like tk, but without tcl. an open question is e.g. whether python's tkinter calls out directly to widgets via c, or it uses tcl strings
8bc1fe801d84092c…482f2370…2023-02-08 15:09:05 <phf> why not grab some useful chatgpt interaction when you are particularly pleased with it, and write an article about it, or even a paste
d8ed35981d84092c…1d84092c…2023-02-08 15:09:33 signpost working solo atm too. farting out some stack-level code that generalizes the last few stacks I've had to put together for webshits.
d16cc35bcbed4fee…cbed4fee…2023-02-09 17:27:50 <phf> e.g. addresscast when you hear from peer on hearsay, when peer's "last packet" timeout goes beyond some threshold, when you come online yourself and can't direct connect to peer. there might be one or two more events like that, but that'll give you effective coverage
1d289ff0a7a725d5…a7a725d5…2023-01-30 00:39:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021739 << is part of wai asciilifeform set out to write a portable cpp pestron (deliberately constrained to cpp11, i.e. builds in gcc 4.9 & elsewhere)
f3cc08b96a59fa5e…597d9fe3…2023-01-30 13:39:03 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021738 << thanks for this clarification. and your input was appreciated. perhaps a handful of braincells were properly re-oriented as a result
c5222719f6a1e48f…f6a1e48f…2022-12-05 19:02:34 <asciilifeform> (how's that work? and maybe could replicate elsewhere)
da93a7d671a6eaa5…bd3dfbe7…2023-02-18 03:40:18 <asciilifeform> also for sumreason had to unpeer to get past ' Error attempting to add key '
9ef9db798bc1fe80…d8ed3598…2023-02-08 15:10:51 <signpost> I should. I had a pretty damned interesting "thread" with the thing applying a jungian lens to Revelation.
b81f87b6d8ed3598…8bc1fe80…2023-02-08 15:10:11 <phf> the other c-level is the main chatgpt champion in my life, but every time he sits down to actually demonstrate it, it goes back to "chatgpt tell me a meaning of life?" "...." isn't this amazing!
6dd13454d16cc35b…d16cc35b…2023-02-09 17:31:56 <phf> also when wardriving, i'd probably have some kind of "hush" mode enabled. i wouldn't want entire pest network bombarding some potentially sensitive router with port discovery packets, that'll light up like christmas tree on any ids. i'll just connect to direct ips, and then not par )jS Ⱦ~
uK,q7
f52ad4b71d289ff0…76a89ae1…2023-01-30 00:40:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 18:39:10 signpost: barrier to rapid collaboration
b3a5f3a6f3cc08b9…6a59fa5e…2023-01-30 13:40:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 18:39:08 signpost: what's miswired is a bunch of d00ds all using different sanctified versions of these things.
1e7b82ea2adb75b7…2adb75b7…2022-12-16 23:52:59 <phf> what we used to call back in the republican days "the whole spitoon"
357005d09ef9db79…9ef9db79…2023-02-08 15:11:24 <signpost> all the direction in the conversation came from me, but the thing did well tossing in detail where I wanted it, and which I could go verify myself. comparable archetypical myths, etc
1a9e6b966dd13454…6dd13454…2023-02-09 17:31:56 <phf> ticularly care that some of my l1 are getting hearsay )jS Ⱦ~
uK,q7
1f1d819cf52ad4b7…1d289ff0…2023-01-30 00:40:37 <asciilifeform> (initially thought to glue the guism to jonsykkel's, but turned out to be over9000 gnarlier, interestingly)
6ae836b5b3a5f3a6…f3cc08b9…2023-01-30 14:00:57 <cgra> fwiw, got ocpy running on my random-platform, and getting similar results to signpost's. and while not done looking yet, not expecting to find obvious improvements
e24fb93f357005d0…357005d0…2023-02-08 15:11:59 signpost struggled a lot in reading that book throughout life.
be661c481a9e6b96…1a9e6b96…2023-02-09 17:38:57 <phf> (to that last point, there's a fairly obvious algorithm for message "validation". whenever you establish a direct connection with l1, you can also walk over your log and for any packet that's hearsay from that peer, do a getdata directly to peer)
7cd2975c1f1d819c…1f1d819c…2023-01-30 00:42:41 <asciilifeform> cpp11 aint ada, but did steal some of the civilized pheatures (e.g. for-each) and if written carefully, does help to keep a lid on rampant pointerism etc. and make for a readable proggy
e3b915d767b74d98…67b74d98…2022-12-05 19:09:45 <phf> and when it gets to logs it's in an entirely random jank order
f5768bf3dea6c792…4cc66243…2023-02-18 03:40:42 <asciilifeform> ( per spec, oughta eat any # of keys )
d2c02188e24fb93f…b81f87b6…2023-02-08 15:12:06 <phf> i wonder if it'll do better than sokal on a sokal prank!
599f4fbbbe661c48…be661c48…2023-02-09 17:46:24 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022809 << *whoever's online, nated, or had his ip change since wardrive went offline
943658da7cd2975c…9550698e…2023-01-30 00:44:22 <signpost> yeah, not criticizing cgra directly here, but making the broader point that relying on any of this shit is a tarpit.
017ea9817cd2975c…7cd2975c…2023-01-30 00:44:24 asciilifeform has been testing each piece on crapple's compiler, sometimes uncovering & zapping implicit reliances on poorly-defined behaviours. will say more re subj later.
8514550247d100d2…89c97813…2023-01-30 16:05:35 <awt> I don't believe I personally have the resources (or inclination) to continuously backport security fixes to python 2.7.
ad3073a1e3b915d7…9fc67ebc…2022-12-05 19:11:03 <signpost> probably helps if I actually add the key on my end.
5ca93ccdd2c02188…e24fb93f…2023-02-08 15:13:00 <signpost> ah this was the journal-punking event. yeah, I bet it would.
33007d6e599f4fbb…2d760502…2023-02-09 17:47:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 12:21:36 phf[awt|deedbot]: because whoever's online and nated, will respond to addresscast and go into nat handshake
789ebf58017ea981…943658da…2023-01-30 00:44:56 <signpost> and it's not less-tarpit by swimming in older tar.
0f37a379ad3073a1…e3b915d7…2022-12-05 19:12:19 <phf> how the fuck did awt's packet reordering logic went from this http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_dg1 to this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017578
69c5181b5ca93ccd…5ca93ccd…2023-02-08 15:14:46 <signpost> and really, I might be an idiot, but with a dash of humility one might be able to see something like gptism as a stage in the language pipeline. probably running in massive parallel, vying for becoming output.
b822fe3233007d6e…04f1c2d2…2023-02-09 18:17:13 <asciilifeform> phf: worth moar thought. esp. the very good point that station itself knows (for so long as can reach net at all, and receives prods) that its external ip changed
7b4d3696789ebf58…789ebf58…2023-01-30 00:46:41 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021747 << yep, seems sane, and I've got a gcc-4.9 builder cemented in place with minimum deps
cb99e3ea9fa2e0fc…d8069903…2023-01-30 19:06:21 asciilifeform still curious what folx mean concretely by 'security fixes for python'
b8b9a5350f37a379…ccb47863…2022-12-05 19:13:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:03:07 asciilifeform[5]: oh hm but looked entirely edible in phf's mac screenshit
e5983910544b5107…9c960796…2022-12-05 19:14:03 <phf> here's the order of messages as i see them, notice the "
e4f5dfdf69c5181b…69c5181b…2023-02-08 15:16:03 <signpost> vetted against a reality simulator, say. I know my own thoughts are something like a narrator speaking a play into being.
66a18faeb822fe32…b822fe32…2023-02-09 18:18:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022816 << important to recall, tho, that you can't directmsg (or, when we've the luby thing -- warez) to anyone with whom direct peering is broken
affa186e7b4d3696…f52ad4b7…2023-01-30 00:48:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 19:40:49 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021739 << is part of wai asciilifeform set out to write a portable cpp pestron (deliberately constrained to cpp11, i.e. builds in gcc 4.9 & elsewhere)
f2617598cb99e3ea…cb99e3ea…2023-01-30 19:09:15 <asciilifeform> ( e.g. cve catalogues plenty of bugs in py libraries, but not afaik in the runtime per se )
0d498782b8b9a535…0f37a379…2022-12-05 19:12:47 <phf> and one of the packets is outright lost _even though it was the one that triggered getdata_
f43d8990e4f5dfdf…d2c02188…2023-02-08 15:18:19 <phf> that could be a frankenstein falacy though, like "man is a like a loom!" "man is a like steam engine!" "man is like a computer!" etc.
1432485466a18fae…33007d6e…2023-02-09 18:19:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 12:33:08 phf[awt|deedbot]: also when wardriving, i'd probably have some kind of "hush" mode enabled. i wouldn't want entire pest network bombarding some potentially sensitive router with port discovery packets, that'll light up like christmas tree on any ids. i'll just connect to direct ips, and th
9728ae1daffa186e…7b4d3696…2023-01-30 00:47:56 <signpost> one's really signing up to own python if you intend to rely on an old version longterm
52c53e1bf2617598…f2617598…2023-01-30 19:10:56 <asciilifeform> ... loox liek there's this that'd fit the description, but is re ancient (i.e. < 2.7.7), even older than dulap's
71d56dc8dfdd52df…dfdd52df…2022-12-05 19:14:48 <phf> notice the "getdata from awt, spooling" http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HJMK and here's how that same log arrives to readers http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017578
d7add45cf43d8990…e4f5dfdf…2023-02-08 15:19:05 <signpost> could be. another interpretation is we're getting a better idea as we look at our effect on our surroundings.
e9481e5b14324854…66a18fae…2023-02-09 18:22:07 <asciilifeform> current algo is indeed braindamaged in that it makes no attempt to determine whether 'i can't see $peer' is because ~own~ ip changed, or the latter wandered away.
8f951d199728ae1d…017ea981…2023-01-30 01:59:39 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform's plan for python is (as discussed prev.) 'throw out the pythonisms', rather than 'care for it long-term' fwiw.
fb46b21052c53e1b…9fa2e0fc…2023-01-30 19:15:26 <signpost> point's that it's not sane to take a longterm dependency on an object of python's complexity without also monitoring whether the thing's been owned. the one I saw was https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2014-1912/
7668f44171d56dc8…b8b9a535…2022-12-05 19:15:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:03:07 asciilifeform[5]: oh hm but looked entirely edible in phf's mac screenshit
4f45a0c12da8844f…f3371a78…2022-12-17 01:53:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018756 << aa, asciilifeform was wondering how it worked w/out tcl! neato (tho also strongly suspect it'll feel palpably slow when over9000 elements in gui or mega-text scrolling etc)
c122afa9d7add45c…d7add45c…2023-02-08 15:19:23 <signpost> enough of "us" is out there to infer more detail
83c9f230e9481e5b…e9481e5b…2023-02-09 18:22:18 <asciilifeform> indeed in the former case oughta refrain from spamming addrcast.
07e99808fb46b210…fb46b210…2023-01-30 19:15:56 <signpost> that this one happens to not apply to the old versions people have chosen is a matter of chance.
c144afe74f45a0c1…aedcec80…2022-12-17 01:54:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 18:23:06 phf[awt]: cltk spawns a wish subprocess, which theoretically gives you an ability to spawn remote gui (there's code in cltk repo that sets that up, but i haven't tried it yet)
b84b863dc122afa9…c122afa9…2023-02-08 15:25:26 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022525 << might be that this is blasphemous because god's already said it all in reality - or *as* reality - and nothing outside what's real may be said.
45c3c95aff973934…07e99808…2023-01-30 19:17:49 signpost uses all kinds of tools he'd like to deprecate in time.
43a059932681429c…2681429c…2022-12-05 19:16:56 <phf> it almost like it would make sense for station operators to make the packet getdata wait time or whatever it is 0, because the mechanism is quite clearly not working
08eb8c57c144afe7…4f45a0c1…2022-12-17 01:55:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018758 << asciilifeform has a possibly perverse reaction when sees item like this (i.e. ~anyffin which he can't read in ~15min or so) : 'there is prolly a commonlisp impl. that weighs less than this! somewhere!'
823f2766b84b863d…05cac061…2023-02-08 15:26:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 18:04:09 phf[deedbot]: friend of mine once told me that his highest goal is to produce a thought that's a result of an authentic thought process (or something similar, we were both drink and smoked too much hookah), but "not being a chatgpt" might become the highets aspiration of life reflected in a po
3e2d6784371a9492…371a9492…2023-02-09 18:24:05 <asciilifeform> ( concretely: if you know that $peer was able to reach you at $addr, and prods indicate that $addr not changed since -- no reason to spam )
302d7ca692d32dad…92d32dad…2023-01-30 02:56:54 <signpost> shitty thing about perl is all the autotools trash demands it. one doesn't want to use it for anything new, but didn't wanna pack gcc without the tools for all generated srcs
df27494445c3c95a…ff973934…2023-01-30 19:17:56 <asciilifeform> signpost: sadly this applies to erry 'kilometres of open sores' pile o'shit, not only python
96034e0708eb8c57…08eb8c57…2022-12-17 01:55:42 <asciilifeform> ( may even be literally tru -- how much did e.g. 'ecl' weigh? dun recall )
aabaac1608eb8c57…c144afe7…2022-12-17 01:56:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 18:48:00 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018755 << to answer my own question, python sets up tcl interpreter and then mostly sends strings back and forth, but there's also helper code for manipulating tcl data directly, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/python/cpython/master/Modules/_
e4b10878823f2766…83c679c5…2023-02-08 15:26:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022542 << consider that most 'npc work' would not even need elaborate ai bot to automate. it exists not because needs doing, but from arbeit macht frei (i.e. they gotta park'em somewhere, give hamster wheel)
62ec5dc8823f2766…b84b863d…2023-02-08 15:26:09 <signpost> dunno what the authentically produced thought would be other than the consequence of the symbol state of his head and the evaluator running forward.
d6de1db6df274944…45c3c95a…2023-01-30 19:18:02 <signpost> bazel say, for builds in professional work.
00eb382d2459f3f4…c5222719…2022-12-05 20:47:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017585 << aa makes sense
420a04e8e4b10878…823f2766…2023-02-08 15:27:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 09:57:47 signpost: 100%. this thing is going to devour NPC "jobs" for that reason.
affb6381d74f039f…d74f039f…2023-02-09 18:25:07 <asciilifeform> the 1 possible case not handled is if $peer somehow lost his AT cache. but not sure why he would w/out also losing keys
997d883dd6de1db6…d6de1db6…2023-01-30 19:20:32 <signpost> I'm poking at this "sanctified wordpress version" unspoken ideological emanation of tmsr.
a61ad78ed6de1db6…6ae836b5…2023-01-30 21:10:40 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021767 << the kind of hack one'd likely expect
fc17644f00eb382d…7668f441…2022-12-05 20:48:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:10:58 phf[awt]: no, why would you be able to? mac build uses entirely different mac native widget set
ff1a6efd420a04e8…f43d8990…2023-02-08 15:27:28 <phf> signpost, as you keep talking the frankenstein falacy starts peeking through more and more :>
3aef469faffb6381…affb6381…2023-02-09 18:52:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022818 << this also imho good idea (tho would need to think about when precisely oughta do it)
b38f130f997d883d…997d883d…2023-01-30 19:21:08 <signpost> would be better to take a utilitarian approach and realize that we're gonna be sinning for a long time, sin less over time.
551ea5aba61ad78e…06252599…2023-01-30 21:11:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 10:06:55 signpost: cgra: cool! what's the diff look like?
5911e31bfc17644f…00eb382d…2022-12-05 20:47:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017603 << prolly the reordering delay. and yes
6b29c307ff1a6efd…62ec5dc8…2023-02-08 15:27:53 <signpost> yes, but you're predisposed to think that certain men are special, so we're both starting from beloved axioms, right?
9fbef5e8ff1a6efd…ff1a6efd…2023-02-08 15:27:55 <phf> or, not to call it a falacy, some kind of material realist reductionism. i dunno should ask chatgpt what to call it
55e44b9d3aef469f…14324854…2023-02-09 18:53:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 12:40:22 phf[awt|deedbot]: (to that last point, there's a fairly obvious algorithm for message "validation". whenever you establish a direct connection with l1, you can also walk over your log and for any packet that's hearsay from that peer, do a getdata directly to peer)
cef7b2f5b38f130f…df274944…2023-01-30 19:21:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: relatedly, was thinking re hypothetical 'fits-in-head iron pestron' appliance in re potential to cure the 'if it's networked, it's prolly pwned' affliction in a permanent way
ed6865cd551ea5ab…8bcd07fd…2023-01-30 21:27:31 <signpost> "py3.11 hashlib.file_digest() replacement, of the crudest kind" << lol!
9e1d97205911e31b…fc17644f…2022-12-05 20:49:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:18:05 phf[awt]: it almost like it would make sense for station operators to make the packet getdata wait time or whatever it is 0, because the mechanism is quite clearly not working
7a74da3055e44b9d…3aef469f…2023-02-09 18:53:58 <asciilifeform> ( and, in particular, wat-do if $peer does ~not~ return a 0bounce copy. mark it in red in log ? )
864acdefcef7b2f5…b38f130f…2023-01-30 19:21:39 <signpost> yeah, I bought that fpga item with nic you mentioned a while back
febae261ed6865cd…ed6865cd…2023-01-30 21:28:13 <signpost> yeah, this is the kind of stuff I'd rather not obscure the code with, as the point of the code is to provide a reference for implementations in other languages
1f82c7a437ab50b3…9fbef5e8…2023-02-08 15:28:41 <phf> no, i'm platonist, so i think all men are imperfect approximations of a Man, but most can come pretty close
5398c2547a74da30…7a74da30…2023-02-09 18:55:56 <asciilifeform> ... and does blatta even currently store 'yes, i sent this' mark ? ( cuz if not, buncha stuff will get marked bogus. maybe this behaviour will need to be version-gated, then )
85ee08ca864acdef…864acdef…2023-01-30 19:22:17 <signpost> if can't cure the kid's immunological disease, bubbleboy engineering seems like next best
b0c888b9febae261…febae261…2023-01-30 21:28:34 <signpost> hopefully reads like a description of the algo as much as possible, rather than ifdef soup
cc13277dbaca8aec…baca8aec…2022-12-05 22:33:37 <awt> As noted previously in the logs, the order buffer is dumped to the client periodically. I set the timout high with initial sync in mind - hoping to get the largest chunks of contiguous messages.
035f8dad1f82c7a4…1f82c7a4…2023-02-08 15:29:44 <phf> if you take the worst, most debased, broken of a human, and then put him next to a system with a large corpus, you can easily say "look, the machine has surpased man", but my only answer to that is not even to debate, but to go "ok? anyway"
d37fb4c75398c254…5398c254…2023-02-09 18:59:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022816 << hammer prolly oughta default to off, aha
bb64bf8585ee08ca…85ee08ca…2023-01-30 19:22:36 <signpost> "my house isn't fire-proof, but my friends typically don't set fires in the living room"
347058d0cc13277d…cc13277d…2022-12-05 22:35:30 <awt> Messages within dumps should be ordered by timestamp, iirc.
4a71995cd37fb4c7…55e44b9d…2023-02-09 19:00:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 12:33:08 phf[awt|deedbot]: also when wardriving, i'd probably have some kind of "hush" mode enabled. i wouldn't want entire pest network bombarding some potentially sensitive router with port discovery packets, that'll light up like christmas tree on any ids. i'll just connect to direct ips, and th
aec34579bb64bf85…cef7b2f5…2023-01-30 19:22:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: didja ever have a chance to 'hello world' it ? ( asciilifeform broke teeth chasing down the toolchain )
e07a9155a95f5685…a61ad78e…2023-01-30 22:08:38 <cgra> yeah, made a good practical demonstration to your earlier point
6e66af8a347058d0…347058d0…2022-12-05 22:37:07 <awt> As also discussed previously in the logs, it might be better just to dump all contiguous messages once the missing message arrives. For an initial sync, this would mean no messages would be displayed for quite some time.
0ce70e67e396dbdd…e396dbdd…2023-02-08 15:30:18 <signpost> will only replace humans who shouldn't exist in the first place.
ab5651544a71995c…599f4fbb…2023-02-10 00:29:27 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022821 << yeah my pest instance is "mobile", so there's a clear point when need to do bookkeeping after suspend or network rotation, since there's a brief period when socket starts throwing system level exceptions
61ba8be4aec34579…bb64bf85…2023-01-30 19:23:30 <signpost> not yet. most recent hardware fiddling was with some cameras I bought in re: discussion with billymg and others on possible non-bezos security systems.
a43f242ae07a9155…85145502…2023-01-30 23:25:43 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020652 << This is not enough for me. I need more than superficial reasons to act from any cause.
924ce8dda9cc61db…96034e07…2022-12-17 01:57:41 <asciilifeform> hm is the help text intended to be different nao? loox to be same as yrs ago
278f63b80ce70e67…035f8dad…2023-02-08 15:31:37 <phf> i don't know if i like that thought either, it feels like desperately trying to pull a ladder from a thing that's flying on its own
129bf103ab565154…4a71995c…2023-02-10 00:30:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 13:18:30 asciilifeform[4]: phf: worth moar thought. esp. the very good point that station itself knows (for so long as can reach net at all, and receives prods) that its external ip changed
18bd253b61ba8be4…aec34579…2023-01-30 19:24:21 asciilifeform recalls thread re geophones. afaik still 0 konsoomer offerings re subj
9b8c6cdea43f242a…551ea5ab…2023-01-30 23:26:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 11:23:46 phf[deedbot]: *this* place is now a hangout spot for frens, and some people who i guess missed out on the original run and are in it for the various projects. projects that maybe continue in the vein of tmsr thought, but only in a superficial way
641a40b8924ce8dd…b859754a…2022-12-17 01:57:55 <signpost> nah, I have just been using that as a sanity check command.
9c8002ef129bf103…ab565154…2023-02-10 00:31:08 <phf> but you're right can have similarlogic in prod receipt
eb7bb42318bd253b…61ba8be4…2023-01-30 19:24:25 <signpost> oughta mention that pest looks useful as a component of a physical security system for org with multiple sites
40920dae9b8c6cde…a43f242a…2023-01-30 23:27:02 <awt> Perhaps to my shame I find the lack of an MP to be demotivating.
d6df112407b957cf…278f63b8…2023-02-08 15:32:34 <phf> like, i get it, there's a certain merth that shaquinda from hr will become useless overnight, but shaquinda in hr is in hr not because her job was irreplacable to begin with. she's there for political reasons
30c83acc9c8002ef…9c8002ef…2023-02-10 00:34:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022822 << that might be a reasonable trade off, when you have some kind of interface feedback. peers are green or red, if you pop up on the network to say "hello" OR if you need to dc someone specific, click to take him from red to green, whi +7S?<+ u}1W)Cbs
15f2f47440920dae…d40101ee…2023-01-30 23:29:02 <asciilifeform> awt: wouldn't have guessed this, fwiw, from awt's output of mp era vs. current
f0730a196e10a80b…641a40b8…2022-12-17 01:58:05 <signpost> got the thing happy with being connected to multiple networks
92c0705877e8c6eb…f0730a19…2022-12-17 01:58:28 <signpost> will now update !!register per earlier thread
0d35804130c83acc…30c83acc…2023-02-10 00:34:05 <phf> ch will initiate some elaborate discovery mechanism +7S?<+ u}1W)Cbs
81cd6ba030c83acc…129bf103…2023-02-10 00:35:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 13:19:54 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022816 << important to recall, tho, that you can't directmsg (or, when we've the luby thing -- warez) to anyone with whom direct peering is broken
c128f2e2fb586e50…18bd253b…2023-01-30 19:25:17 <asciilifeform> signpost: the part where it doesn't care re ip addrs is an obvious win in said application imho
1b8c0b9215f2f474…40920dae…2023-01-30 23:42:30 <awt> asciilifeform: yes up until the last year or so of tmsr I was an eater and secret blogger.
d80b871169a42253…07b957cf…2023-02-08 15:33:15 <signpost> if we're lifting the thread to the political, there's also a "SF couldn't possibly have built something useful" that I smell.
35eea61e81cd6ba0…0d358041…2023-02-10 00:35:52 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022822 << well, more general question is under what circumstances and why would your peer "go silent"
babd9e26c128f2e2…fb586e50…2023-01-30 19:25:43 <signpost> yep. potentially a way to johnny-appleseed pest nodes too.
23f9964e1b8c0b92…1b8c0b92…2023-01-30 23:43:59 <awt> Nonetheless in private I was spending vast amounts of time on things motivated by mp - learning ancient greek, for example.
3a6269c51b8c0b92…e07a9155…2023-02-01 20:15:29 <cgra> signpost, went and tried to change ocpy arrays' word size to 64bits (from 8bit) only to achieve 0 change in encoding speed
0d36d13c34b90217…6e10a80b…2022-12-17 01:59:51 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018769 << the only test i've ran so far is load a canticle for leibowitz into text widget, annotate all instances of "the" with an onclick event, and put a marker in front of every paragraph. was extremely snappy
8c9d93f3d80b8711…d80b8711…2023-02-08 15:33:37 <signpost> (and for that matter, they didn't. they threw money at what was already public knowledge)
684e9f2735eea61e…81cd6ba0…2023-02-10 00:37:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 13:19:54 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022816 << important to recall, tho, that you can't directmsg (or, when we've the luby thing -- warez) to anyone with whom direct peering is broken
8483e764babd9e26…babd9e26…2023-01-30 19:25:54 <signpost> internal side of the thing ends up serving up a chat interface to owner
d9ae2a8123f9964e…23f9964e…2023-01-30 23:46:30 <awt> It is disappointing that by the time I dug myself out of the hole I was in, the thing went kaput.
6728b2e60d36d13c…aabaac16…2022-12-17 02:01:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 20:54:21 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-16#1018756 << aa, asciilifeform was wondering how it worked w/out tcl! neato (tho also strongly suspect it'll feel palpably slow when over9000 elements in gui or mega-text scrolling etc)
6c3efa0b8c9d93f3…d6df1124…2023-02-08 15:34:16 <phf> nah, that's not a factor in my motivation at all
d75e49f0684e9f27…35eea61e…2023-02-10 00:36:21 <phf> because if you don't see them, they most likely don't see you either, which will initiate discovery on their end also
0fa97fbb315dd485…8483e764…2023-01-30 19:27:40 <signpost> suppose you go installing these security systems for people. there's a hardware device you place at network edge at secure site, and at observer sites. that network edge device could also serve as a comms terminal for the operators.
38b2fec1d9ae2a81…d9ae2a81…2023-01-30 23:49:05 <awt> I am still working from the cause of sound money.
104c8b3fdc1b2e4c…dc1b2e4c…2023-02-01 22:56:40 <signpost> I wager bigger speedups would be had by removing unnecessary array copying. I don't have my brain-caches filled atm, but I recall there still being a few in there in iirc the decoder.
554b64906c3efa0b…8c9d93f3…2023-02-08 15:34:19 <signpost> but I think the thing I said that provoked balking was the suggestion that a statistical symbol-chainer might live at some level of the pipeline of human language.
ffd3acf2d75e49f0…d75e49f0…2023-02-10 00:37:32 <phf> so if a peer "went silent" is aggressive discovery ever necessary?
60d754370fa97fbb…0fa97fbb…2023-01-30 19:27:57 <signpost> just stating obvious that both alarm alerts and human communication can happen over the same nodes
aa94364238b2fec1…a95f5685…2023-01-30 23:52:51 <signpost> that's what happens when you live for someone else.
a0745ea67cfd21f4…0d36d13c…2022-12-17 02:01:04 <phf> obviously you probably wouldn't want to do an "online" state, gotta fully populate state and send user events back and forth, and state changes
227cc279554b6490…554b6490…2023-02-08 15:34:32 <signpost> necessary but insufficient is all I'd say, and just speculating.
6f5c6134ffd3acf2…ffd3acf2…2023-02-10 00:41:18 <phf> that was re http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022832
7ddeec8560d75437…60d75437…2023-01-30 19:28:32 <signpost> billymg thinks there is an expat community in CR that may buy this type of product.
dec3e8aeaa943642…aa943642…2023-01-30 23:54:02 signpost grateful for the dunk back into tradition, and would've liked to see tmsr last longer.
aa43c7cc227cc279…6c3efa0b…2023-02-08 15:35:05 <phf> well, no, that wasn't what "provoked balking" that's what moved the conversation from casual riffing into a more serious consideration
b1a20add6f5c6134…684e9f27…2023-02-10 00:42:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 13:55:19 asciilifeform[awt|jonsykkel|deedbot]: ( and, in particular, wat-do if $peer does ~not~ return a 0bounce copy. mark it in red in log ? )
3e792fd17ddeec85…315dd485…2023-01-30 19:28:57 <asciilifeform> imho the most interesting part is that the protocol is simple enuff that it could be hardwareized (and fully de-vonneumanized) in readable implementation, potentially
f0e06bf5dec3e8ae…dec3e8ae…2023-01-30 23:54:13 <signpost> but was working on my own liberation before, during, and now after
14cce8f0ace7a9be…a0745ea6…2022-12-17 02:01:46 <phf> main reason i did the canticle test, is because i want to be able to load significantly large useful portion of log into the gui, so that i don't have to do hacky things with partial updates and such
b9c347e0aa43c7cc…227cc279…2023-02-08 15:35:43 <signpost> please assume I'm just a brash texan picking words with that priming.
3225e17cb1a20add…6f5c6134…2023-02-10 00:46:51 <phf> asciilifeform, signpost, crtdaydreams, in related is any of you running a station that's doing addresscasts? because all the addresscast packets that i'm getting have ("awt" "unpx" "jonsykkel") as speakers
5a8b01c73e792fd1…7ddeec85…2023-01-30 19:29:02 <signpost> worth talking about more here. I became disinterested with the project in thinking that there aren't many Americans that give a shit.
ffc6d505f0e06bf5…f0e06bf5…2023-01-30 23:54:48 <signpost> futility aside. because the answer to that is "fuck you"
fce1344120d9d5d1…1ae29076…2023-02-02 02:18:21 <asciilifeform> awt: not heard prev. but lulzy. approximately 'irc w/ pubkey signatures', but mega-marketing push coming from 'nowhere'
b5a3648814cce8f0…ace7a9be…2022-12-17 02:02:20 <asciilifeform> phf: speed of update (e.g. replace the 'the's with a lengthy seq of gensyms when clicked) may be worth experiment
ebb19c0d3225e17c…3225e17c…2023-02-10 00:47:50 <phf> theoretically i should be peered with all three of you, but i don't have dc established
9339ad56ffc6d505…9b8c6cde…2023-01-30 23:56:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 22:10:00 phf[deedbot|awt]: so like when gotcha people say "oh you saying you're only good because sky daddy told you so", the answer is "fuck off"
a8827d9dfce13441…fce13441…2023-02-02 02:18:30 <asciilifeform> ... endorsements from 'luminaries', e.g. dorsey, 'bitcoin magazine'.
c8d1f05eb5a36488…b5a36488…2022-12-17 02:02:41 <asciilifeform> (does it painfully reallocate when the text box updated 'in middle')
bef084ccabc02edd…aa43c7cc…2023-02-08 15:38:00 <phf> so my thought on the subject of chatgpt is that perhaps it solved the kind of problems that one shouldn't have to begin with, but if one does, then it's a good solution, and nothing more.
cfba55aeebb19c0d…ebb19c0d…2023-02-10 00:54:04 <phf> actually running a historgram for a few minutes, gives me (("jonsykkel" 56) ("awt" 179) ("unpx" 24))
f83a30517f79b66f…3e792fd1…2023-01-30 19:30:25 <asciilifeform> signpost: the critical lack of givers of shits re sane softs prolly aint going away
abd6d5159339ad56…ffc6d505…2023-01-30 23:56:59 <signpost> that said, awt owes his day's work to no one but himself.
0b0134efa8827d9d…a8827d9d…2023-02-02 02:19:10 <asciilifeform> choice verbiage from author : 'it does not rely on P2P techniques, therefore it works'
b5f54aacc8d1f05e…c8d1f05e…2022-12-17 02:03:34 <asciilifeform> fwiw log is pretty certainly already big enuff that you wouldn't want ~all~ of it loaded into gui at all times
7731040bbef084cc…bef084cc…2023-02-08 15:39:03 <phf> from the "considerations of the human nature" perspective, i've suggested before that "npcs" do a kind of markov chain generation in their head, and LLM is just closer to being a more useful and practical metaphor
db25622aabd6d515…38b2fec1…2023-01-30 23:58:06 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021840 << no objection to this at all
b2aefee9b5f54aac…b5f54aac…2022-12-17 02:03:57 <asciilifeform> (would need sumthing like what heathen chats do, e.g. 'slack', monkey with scrollbar mechanics and partial load)
e99e38207731040b…7731040b…2023-02-08 15:39:41 <phf> but the state of npc is not an exhaulted state, it's a deliberate debasement of human nature by the human himself and by external powers
264d983d03155104…03155104…2023-01-30 19:32:43 asciilifeform at one pt had naive notion that bitcoinism could change this, but in fact went in ~opposite~ direction, i.e. goxification, where the tards give even ~less~ shit
0d39684cdb25622a…9339ad56…2023-01-30 23:59:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 18:54:04 signpost: that's what happens when you live for someone else.
4f0bc022d3c7cc2d…11986f20…2023-02-02 02:20:25 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-03-02 asciilifeform: oooh hey hey hey lbj. i finally found out why prb folx like schnorr.
21e24663b2aefee9…14cce8f0…2022-12-17 02:04:41 <phf> asciilifeform, the test was slightly different: updates between markers, because that's how i plan to implement log updates. basically you have two markers s<hash> e<hash>, and then there's a single op lisp side op, (with-hash-update hash (insert-text ...) (insert-newline ...))
972c9b4ce99e3820…69a42253…2023-02-08 15:40:04 <asciilifeform> historically, this kinda 'solution' simply leads to where problem grows to eat up avail. cycles. ( recall '70s 'computers will abolish bureaucracy' lulz )
3d941b00264d983d…7f79b66f…2023-01-30 19:33:13 <signpost> yep, would like to hear more thoughts from billymg. I'm still sorta in get fiats, convert to buttcorn, ammo, and land mode, but not impossible to persuade.
1be7fd0f0d39684c…db25622a…2023-01-30 23:59:39 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021842 << I owe my liberation almost in full to tmsr.
b27f426e4f0bc022…d3c7cc2d…2023-02-02 02:21:15 <asciilifeform> by all appearances, this is reich's latest attempt at 'vaccinating' folx against pest ( which the perps do not necessarily know about, but imho idea is 'obvious' enuff that 'people need vaccinating' against it )
df3c9ab021e24663…21e24663…2022-12-17 02:05:23 <phf> i haven't tried stresstesting it (millions of updates in a tight loop or whatever), but casual on-event update worked fine
de44943b972c9b4c…e99e3820…2023-02-08 15:41:05 <phf> signpost, that's why i said "can you post an example of a useful interaction", and when you said "well, we had a good conversation about heady philosophical point" my retort was "i'm sure a bullshit generator is good at generating bullshit"
740b78701be7fd0f…0d39684c…2023-01-31 00:00:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 18:55:28 signpost: but was working on my own liberation before, during, and now after
5c0d9c4db27f426e…b27f426e…2023-02-02 02:22:25 <asciilifeform> anyffin, anyffin that might delay / poison well against p2p wot nets.
c0c2a943de44943b…abc02edd…2023-02-08 15:41:27 <signpost> well, that's your level of respect for me as well as the other thing, lol
9c1aef86505b6d75…505b6d75…2023-02-10 01:25:51 <phf> (("signpost" 79) ("jonsykkel" 504) ("awt" 1066) ("unpx" 215))
38cb3c6b24a7ba7e…3d941b00…2023-01-30 19:33:56 <signpost> cheap hardware comms device helps us all not die as well as this other idea, so good thing to pursue in either case.
6e6d42b824a7ba7e…d090220a…2023-01-30 19:33:58 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-16 asciilifeform: cgra: i ought to make clear that i do not atm have any plans to mass-produce any kind of irons (beyond handful of prototypes for own use.) simply because it -- afaik -- cannot be done economically.
1083123d740b7870…abd6d515…2023-01-31 00:04:24 <signpost> this is that meaning-crisis thread again from another way in.
33b02f4f5c0d9c4d…5c0d9c4d…2023-02-02 02:24:16 <asciilifeform> apparently, there's a client in crapple 'app store'. which itself imho quite revealing.
30d32014988fa3ac…988fa3ac…2022-12-17 02:05:48 <asciilifeform> presumably there's a way to make e.g. 'reply' button appear when hovering over a line
68927401c0c2a943…de44943b…2023-02-08 15:42:32 <phf> and i said "can you post" not as a challenge, but as an attempt to get a confirmation that indeed, this thing is pretty good at doing useful junior assistant functions. i believe that might be the case, but not having trusted the system enough myself, i don't have any way to test it. i'm just curious about examples
9727c2039c1aef86…d37fb4c7…2023-02-10 02:27:04 <asciilifeform> phf: can't speak for the rest, but currently still on blatta 9973 (where, iirc, not yet addrcast)
a59de8c56e6d42b8…24a7ba7e…2023-01-30 19:34:58 <asciilifeform> the unfortunate thing is that the only 'cheap' iron is likely to be whatever you currently have, + what's in scrapyard
228003da33b02f4f…33b02f4f…2023-02-02 02:24:38 <asciilifeform> 'protocol that allows building truly censorship resistant and decentralized social media...' etc etc
7717f3e730d32014…df3c9ab0…2022-12-17 02:08:03 <phf> asciilifeform, you can't make widgets overlap or hover, you can have events on things though and you can have menu popup
eacca2919727c203…9727c203…2023-02-10 02:33:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022842 << ( excluding the obv 'switched off box' ) afaik would just about always be one of a) at least one of you got new dynamic ip, or b) at least one of you is under nat and lost ephemeral port state
7a9f41a9a59de8c5…a59de8c5…2023-01-30 19:35:07 <asciilifeform> errything else costs over9000 a la FG.
ca340bb65ca72696…15f2f474…2023-01-31 00:07:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021837 << the greeks are still there to read, even after mp kaput...
c9c73b19228003da…104c8b3f…2023-02-02 02:27:07 <signpost> just another client-server turd, and on it most people are "talking" about nostr itself, if anything.
76d738ab7717f3e7…7717f3e7…2022-12-17 02:09:00 <phf> but i haven't experimented with that feature yet, so i'm not sure how smooth or clunky it'll be
3281f1318ae354b7…8ae354b7…2023-02-08 15:43:01 <signpost> and I've heard it passed the goog l3 interview
2be81d93eacca291…b1a20add…2023-02-10 02:34:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 19:37:11 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022822 << well, more general question is under what circumstances and why would your peer "go silent"
10f7176e7a9f41a9…38cb3c6b…2023-01-30 19:37:18 <signpost> not to be a downer, but the obvious fact is there's probably not a lot of time.
a7c69956ca340bb6…740b7870…2023-01-31 00:08:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 18:45:21 awt: Nonetheless in private I was spending vast amounts of time on things motivated by mp - learning ancient greek, for example.
fe86343e2be81d93…eacca291…2023-02-10 02:33:57 <asciilifeform> ( if anyone can think of an unrelated 'c', plox to write in )
96a07eb4a7c69956…1be7fd0f…2023-01-31 00:07:33 <awt> signpost: life is pretty good. Almost out of the hole. Divorce should be resolved this year.
db62d173b930aaf1…b930aaf1…2023-02-02 02:33:16 <asciilifeform> signpost: from surface reading, ~= irc with (shitcoinistic) pubkey sigs. author's answer to 'what to keep relays from dropping msgs signed by keys they don't like' seems to be 'shuddup'
4d1ff0a9630adbc7…630adbc7…2023-02-08 15:45:18 <signpost> ^ example of a class of requests for which I've found it working well. "bolt system A into system B by some well-known protocol"
8e994788630adbc7…68927401…2023-02-08 15:45:22 <phf> signpost, that's your "didn't get my phd" american chip on the shoulder! i'm suggesting that one can has a very productive philosophical reflection by doing i-ching or a tarot card layout or just even opening a random book one doesn't quite understand and reading random passages. i ? }&(+ ' ڿiX
27c86901fe86343e…fe86343e…2023-02-10 02:34:58 <asciilifeform> ( i suppose 'one or both of you moved box to new static ip' could count as 'c', but let's count it as 'a', lol )
510d991032acc254…60d1d466…2023-01-30 19:37:50 <signpost> everybody decides the crash is over about 1/3 of the way in, then splat.
4d6ff87996a07eb4…ca340bb6…2023-01-31 00:08:39 asciilifeform recalls, for sumreason, t.dalrymple (brit prison shrink, author of some lulzb00kz) accounts of his patients asking, 'doc, where do i find sumthing that feels as good as heroin?'
47fb9cfc96a07eb4…4d6ff879…2023-01-31 00:10:31 <asciilifeform> awt: which hole was it that you're almost out of ?
207d960ddb62d173…20d9d5d1…2023-02-02 02:33:59 <awt> Jack Dorsey donated a sum of btc to the project and there's some sort of nostr conf happening down here in CR next month. Weird.
bfda7765db62d173…db62d173…2023-02-02 02:34:05 <asciilifeform> (not even to mention e.g. ddos; or the fact that crapple always has yer current ip & privkey.)
e78ca9dc8e994788…8e994788…2023-02-08 15:45:22 <phf> 've done all of those before. it's not "hur dur dum signpost has heady conversations with a bullshit machine", it's "there are all kinds of methods to extract meaning from meaningless, and human brains are really good at that" ? }&(+ ' ڿiX
c743661b27c86901…27c86901…2023-02-10 02:36:02 <asciilifeform> and imho it would make sense not to spam addrcast if 'you know it wasn't you' and $peer ought still have valid addr for you
c403f243510d9910…510d9910…2023-01-30 19:37:58 <signpost> and the last couple didn't have a looming world war.
ddffd45d47fb9cfc…96a07eb4…2023-01-31 00:10:48 <awt> Concerning the greeks - a couple of tragedies took the wind out of my sails there. I used to attend a meetup hosted by a UC Berkeley classics professor. Sadly he committed suicide. Then mp drowned. Took some of the fun out of it I suppose.
8a6dba84207d960d…bfda7765…2023-02-02 02:34:45 <asciilifeform> awt: imho not least bit weird. entirely predictable.
2273a4b9bfda7765…3a6269c5…2023-02-02 06:51:04 <cgra> is it already time to consider how online codes doable in integer/(lean-ada/fpga)-friendly math? plenty of floats atm
2b1cca93e78ca9dc…4d1ff0a9…2023-02-08 15:46:27 <signpost> sure, that's why I said that all the thoughts worth having came from me, but lemme post the bulleted summary it produced from the conversation.
7fcd098bc743661b…c743661b…2023-02-10 02:38:02 <asciilifeform> the remaining open q afaik is wat-do if you know it was you, but sending 1 addrcast not results in peer returning ( because, say, his station down just then ). how often to spam.
3f22ca628a6dba84…8a6dba84…2023-02-02 02:35:28 <asciilifeform> ( why does a 'decentralized...' need btc? or a dorsey? or a piece in shitcoin mag? imho answer is obv )
5b53c9602273a4b9…2273a4b9…2023-02-02 10:31:38 <cgra> i suppose, if going to eventually lock into constant oc parameters, 'un-floating' not difficult (nfi about fpga...). may as well do it now, on numpy/scipy rng-isms replacement? but could keep max_check_block_degree (F) calculation as is, until parameters chosen
465ed3d57fcd098b…9c1aef86…2023-02-10 02:42:45 <phf> in that last case why not wait till peer comes online and starts sending his own addresscast to find you?
8f02db301a74da0e…32acc254…2023-01-30 19:38:20 <asciilifeform> while it's still possible to make custom irons at sumthing like reasonable cost, there are things that could be made. but afaik would have to be from ideological or immed. practical consideration, to 'biznis' it afaik is simply quick way to lose shirt.
0d3a43c03f22ca62…3f22ca62…2023-02-02 02:36:45 <asciilifeform> 'tmsr dead' but mp's 'siberian river' apparently alive & well.
c7e21349de7f0819…de7f0819…2023-02-08 15:49:15 <signpost> if I were preparing to write on this subject, this would be mighty useful
812bdcb2465ed3d5…7fcd098b…2023-02-10 02:42:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022839 << imho requiring manual intervention for addrcast is an ugh -- some stations are automated/headless, e.g. dulapbot & similar
cd1df34b8f02db30…8f02db30…2023-01-30 19:38:55 <asciilifeform> ~nobody wants to pay the sort of dough that'd recover fixed dev cost, for ~anything nontrivial.
dd78fef4b42e4016…b42e4016…2023-01-31 00:12:25 <asciilifeform> as far as asciilifeform concerned, mp drowned in '18. but already noted this at length.
b31f71e30d3a43c0…4f0bc022…2023-02-02 02:36:45 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-03-26 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible".
bf6b3ba43a3869bb…3a3869bb…2023-02-02 10:47:48 <cgra> and afaict, ocpy-relevant numpy Generator's choice() and integers() here, but an apparent pointless puzzle, as phf suggested.
e6f4f66ec7e21349…c7e21349…2023-02-08 15:49:54 <signpost> I'd prefer the thing hyperlink to sources, and hyperlink to its own logs to reference previously "discussed" material.
1f27e810812bdcb2…2be81d93…2023-02-10 02:44:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 19:35:34 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-09#1022822 << that might be a reasonable trade off, when you have some kind of interface feedback. peers are green or red, if you pop up on the network to say "hello" OR if you need to dc someone specific, click to take him from red to
371392bccd1df34b…cd1df34b…2023-01-30 19:47:34 <asciilifeform> 1st casualty of civ collapse is anyone's ability to bake anyffin new, 'weird', or even any such thing doesn't help 1 illiterate club and eat anuther and in such a way that can be explained in 3 minutes
ba59937edd78fef4…dd78fef4…2023-01-31 00:13:29 <asciilifeform> dunno what e.g. awt was hoping to do with post-'18 mp... wait to be the next to be 'unpersoned' and yer work plagiarized ?
56b23a04b31f71e3…0d3a43c0…2023-02-02 02:42:36 <asciilifeform> reich will keep twatter (which apparently essential component of the edifice) alive at whatever cost; incl. aggressively peddling 'alternatives' sprayed with faux-decentralization perfume 'until sumthing sticks'
b13e72b01f3c3229…ffa23d1d…2022-12-17 17:55:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: is 'Any previously existing peering will be destroyed by this command before creating a new one' correct? seems that it oughta only overwrite old peering if succeeds ?
5e4c5914e6f4f66e…e6f4f66e…2023-02-08 15:51:14 <signpost> plenty of it is "yes, that is the reading list of a first year philosophy / history student"
db956e1c1f27e810…812bdcb2…2023-02-10 02:43:29 <asciilifeform> phf: maybe asciilifeform misunderstands, but sounds uncomfortably like 'if two trains meet on the tracks, neither shall move until the other has started'(tm)
8b3e6a5d371392bc…371392bc…2023-01-30 19:48:32 <asciilifeform> it aint clear to asciilifeform that the folx in 'land & ammo' mode give half a rat's arse re throwing bits , 'securely' or otherwise (or even oughta)
e3eedbcd56b23a04…207d960d…2023-02-02 02:42:40 <awt> Can't find an explanation of the siberian river attack in the logs or elsewhere.
57b434fda9355509…a9355509…2023-02-02 15:11:56 asciilifeform will note tho that he did not have notion of stuffing lubyism decoder per se into fpga; rather, to use the latter as a pass-through packet filter, with regular comp receiving valid packets strictly
58d57cc55e4c5914…5e4c5914…2023-02-08 15:51:50 <signpost> but that's exactly why I'm talking about the thing as a search tool.
6f2f0c498b3e6a5d…8b3e6a5d…2023-01-30 19:48:46 <asciilifeform> ( if the bitcoin folx didn't, then who ? )
c236fc497dc6bd5a…a7c69956…2023-01-31 00:17:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 18:17:54 signpost: "the master's ass graced this particular wordpress version. you can still see the crease and smell his cigars."
72f19be4e060f881…e060f881…2022-12-17 17:55:47 <signpost> because correct, doesn't trash the old key until you confirm
fca2d90e58d57cc5…e78ca9dc…2023-02-08 15:52:56 <phf> (we were listening to rome on the drive to horses yesterday, so i when i read "kali yuga" in that list the song that was already stuck in my head popped up again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkVmDQ1_JDk )
d463bd09b01bb863…b01bb863…2023-02-10 02:45:48 <phf> in the ideal scenario, you have two stations A and B, A changed ip address and B went offline. A sends out addresscast on account of changing ip, but B is offline. eventually B comes online, sends addresscast on account of coming, and not being able to connect to A.
88fe7164c236fc49…1a44762c…2023-01-31 00:16:44 <awt> asciilifeform: yes it's all very clear now. IMO doesn't really matter precisely when but the bitbets debacle was the end.
1fcc3df5e2639c3e…e2639c3e…2023-02-02 02:43:40 <asciilifeform> ( or what 'keybase' tried to be in re pgp, etc )
17ee7f9638a04e36…aca41f2f…2023-02-02 15:15:46 <dulapbot> shinohai last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-11-30 14:36:28: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-11-30#1114242 << email received, did not unpeer but will dive in firther when back @ desk later.
4cea42aefca2d90e…fca2d90e…2023-02-08 15:57:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022602 << i don't know how to interact with this output. what i mean by this is that it's wrong in many places, in code and in text, and doesn't satisfy prompt requirements either.
46f2d569d40101ee…1a74da0e…2023-01-30 20:07:19 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-03-30#1090474
4e06a54688fe7164…7dc6bd5a…2023-01-31 00:17:46 <asciilifeform> fella had a 'substances' problem. unfortunate, but followed typical progression.
7f11eb631fcc3df5…1fcc3df5…2023-02-02 02:44:24 <asciilifeform> 'friendlier' and glossy-magazined 'modernization', 'use on ipnoje!', etc
064bf2f817ee7f96…38a04e36…2023-02-02 15:16:31 <asciilifeform> hrm nm, asciilifeform's bot not eats foo[bar|baz|etc] properly
e10e03a9c202b8d6…c202b8d6…2022-12-17 18:08:06 <asciilifeform> in re: unrelated earlier thread : apparently sqlite supports encrypted db, tho only with aes and coupla toy ciphers.
bcdb73df4cea42ae…420a04e8…2023-02-08 15:59:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 10:46:03 signpost: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jXML
ce20bae8d4ad6d53…d4ad6d53…2023-02-10 02:46:50 <phf> if B is "offline" due to network issues in A->B direction, then B would never know anything was amis
0625259946f2d569…b3a5f3a6…2023-01-30 20:08:46 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-30 signpost: I won't cry if all I get is a toast with my internet frens when I let y'all know I just saw the flash.
9c7c3a184e06a546…5ca72696…2023-01-31 00:18:10 <signpost> anyway, go drown in free agent pussy for a while on the beach. just stay away from mixing riptides and rum!
1f876a89064bf2f8…064bf2f8…2023-02-02 16:04:03 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021940 << first one is correct, xorshift1024_next is taken exactly from http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-01#1021924
144df6ac064bf2f8…bf6b3ba4…2023-02-02 17:46:42 <cgra> phf, right. couldn't immediately tell whether this 'jump' would end up being useful or not
639d8d62e10e03a9…6728b2e6…2022-12-17 18:09:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-16 13:05:31 asciilifeform[6]: db is anuther can of worms waiting to be opened. e.g. atm folx using sqlite, but it not supports (afaik) encryption on disk, which imho ideally would exist (enter pw on warmup of pestron)
c236024cbcdb73df…4cea42ae…2023-02-08 15:58:15 <phf> so we're kind of back to "reviewing pull requests from 22 year old developmentally challenged junes"
e51de05cce20bae8…db956e1c…2023-02-10 02:47:04 <asciilifeform> aha! B may be 'offline' only with respect to A.
0dcb2445ce20bae8…ce20bae8…2023-02-10 02:47:06 <phf> actually no, B will know that A's offline, because A eventually will stop sending garbage, etc.
48fbede806252599…46f2d569…2023-01-30 20:08:05 <signpost> "what's your strategy?" "why... luck! it's worked so far!"
b8af305e9c7c3a18…9c7c3a18…2023-01-31 00:18:25 <signpost> nothing kills the joy of life like a bad relationship
d740ec291f876a89…cd18a118…2023-02-02 16:05:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 05:48:49 cgra[jonsykkel]: afaict, ocpy's xorshift here, and maybe here.
8dd635c0144df6ac…144df6ac…2023-02-02 17:54:57 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021943 << valid signatures only or even broader validation? something that requires memory (like getdata flagging)?
e96aeec4639d8d62…e10e03a9…2022-12-17 18:16:31 <asciilifeform> apropos: rather compact sqlite3 binding for ada. ( asciilifeform not tested. but appears to weigh over9000x less than adacorpse's )
42d7c1bcc236024c…c236024c…2023-02-08 15:59:32 <phf> it particularly well captures the "smug certainty combined with in your face wrong answer" element of that experience :D
b48eb3a30dcb2445…e51de05c…2023-02-10 02:48:01 <asciilifeform> correct, but neither will be in 'i just booted, so let's send addrcast' state
0c1b1bd9b8af305e…b8af305e…2023-01-31 00:19:08 signpost mega-grateful for blatta's existence. earlier commentary was about standardizing tooling so folks who want to can collaborate without pointless toil.
e5bd99bd6282f593…aec1c47c…2023-02-02 02:45:37 <awt> ah was the next line: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-26#1632665
2344ef3ad740ec29…d740ec29…2023-02-02 16:05:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-01 22:33:46 phf[deedbot|awt]: i assume "xorshift1024" that they use is from this paper https://vigna.di.unimi.it/ftp/papers/xorshift.pdf, but i'm not quite sure what sort of magic scipy's generator use to e.g. produce Generator(…).random() or choice() or any other results
18023ce88dd635c0…2344ef3a…2023-02-02 17:56:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 10:13:12 asciilifeform[4]: will note tho that he did not have notion of stuffing lubyism decoder per se into fpga; rather, to use the latter as a pass-through packet filter, with regular comp receiving valid packets strictly
defebe1642d7c1bc…58d57cc5…2023-02-08 16:02:10 <signpost> sounds like a problem of degree though. but I do not have a strong argument for saying so.
ce73b66c0c1b1bd9…0c1b1bd9…2023-01-31 00:21:41 <signpost> as for me, I like talking with asciilifeform and getting yelled at by phf, and will stick around for that.
aca41f2fe5bd99bd…b31f71e3…2023-02-02 02:45:39 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-03-26 mp_en_viaje: (for the unfamiliar, siberian rivers flow the wrong way, melt at source before they melt downstream, causes some problems.)
0d2cffc42344ef3a…1f876a89…2023-02-02 16:06:57 <phf> the second one is "jump" it lets you rotate the state equivalent to 2**512 individual generations. it is somehow used in parallel code…
46defdaa18023ce8…9134a078…2023-02-02 18:33:19 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021796 << i do think there would be a market for that here with expats who [thought that they] escaped the totalitarian west
16e0b4faaecb9c77…72f19be4…2022-12-18 02:59:37 <signpost> asciilifeform: the sqlite encryption thinger also mentions (hilariously) that it's some kind of payware.
3426fef21274db86…b48eb3a3…2023-02-10 02:48:44 <asciilifeform> ( 1 common, asciilifeform suspects, cause -- ephemeral nat state lost for 1 particular peer )
c2d2645c1274db86…1274db86…2023-02-10 02:48:46 <phf> this needs more thought, but at least "my ip is still the same, i'm not going to spam" is a solid change
2a2b1507ce73b66c…ce73b66c…2023-01-31 00:22:05 <signpost> can hump along some software as time permits. window for world domination is closed and was probably never open.
76dc55e6aca41f2f…6282f593…2023-02-02 02:46:01 <asciilifeform> aka 'embrace & extinguish'(tm)(r)(microshit)
1adfb54f46defdaa…18023ce8…2023-02-02 18:27:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 14:29:45 signpost: billymg thinks there is an expat community in CR that may buy this type of product.
498b654c16e0b4fa…16e0b4fa…2022-12-18 03:00:10 <signpost> but in principle oughta be able to look at how it works and sit a sane cipher alongside
a586f269b4867570…defebe16…2023-02-08 16:06:26 <signpost> well, like it hallucinated a socket package. is it not trained enough on CL code? did I insufficiently prompt the thing to not pretend other code exists
3da3cd862a2b1507…88fe7164…2023-01-31 00:34:57 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021870 << Alas!
e573c6e376dc55e6…76dc55e6…2023-02-02 02:46:19 <asciilifeform> (made famous by their 'open document format')
51b686bf1adfb54f…46defdaa…2023-02-02 18:35:34 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021803 << i'm in a similar mode currently. at some point towards the end of last year something finally flipped for me and i decided to fully embrace living on a farm/compound vs. the sort of "digital nomad" / "i'm just a tourist here" mindset i was stuck in before
b97b0c9c498b654c…498b654c…2022-12-18 03:02:07 <signpost> https://stackoverflow.com/a/5877130 << list of a couple other sqlite on-disk encryption mechanism for ref
ddd798ffa586f269…a586f269…2023-02-08 16:06:53 <signpost> I often "hallucinate" the existence of other code, write as though it exists, then go implement the meat behind the interface
eb2d67ad3da3cd86…c236fc49…2023-01-31 00:36:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 19:23:18 signpost: can hump along some software as time permits. window for world domination is closed and was probably never open.
853384e1e573c6e3…c9c73b19…2023-02-02 03:06:32 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-01#1021909 << musk says out loud that he intends to turn twitter into the "west's WeChat". one side "sounds good!" other, "we're so upset about this we're going to tweet about it a lot"
7126cbd851b686bf…1adfb54f…2023-02-02 18:30:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 14:34:27 signpost: yep, would like to hear more thoughts from billymg. I'm still sorta in get fiats, convert to buttcorn, ammo, and land mode, but not impossible to persuade.
d7cf31d9ddd798ff…b6e869c2…2023-02-08 16:07:50 <awt> ^ This has been my experience. ChatGPT halucinated extremely useful public method that was actually private and so not so useful.
16240772be1f0e83…c2d2645c…2023-02-10 02:50:24 <phf> (("signpost" 161) ("jonsykkel" 1401) ("awt" 2659) ("unpx" 599))
3eb64791eb2d67ad…3da3cd86…2023-01-31 00:38:45 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021868 << Ty and yes I understood. I'm just at a point where I only have like a decade of declining productivity left. Gotta choose wisely.
c772d628853384e1…4960c00c…2023-02-02 03:07:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-01 21:43:59 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: reich will keep twatter (which apparently essential component of the edifice) alive at whatever cost; incl. aggressively peddling 'alternatives' sprayed with faux-decentralization perfume 'until sumthing sticks'
ac63f5ac7126cbd8…51b686bf…2023-02-02 18:37:30 <billymg> i've been getting my hands dirty with actual physical work on the property, just this morning finished tearing down some old wooden shelves in the bodega in preparation for a remodel (tons of fun doing so with a sledge hammer)
68e4a444d7cf31d9…b4867570…2023-02-08 16:08:26 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022555 << that's why i asked what i asked, rather than "give me an example"
a94afdbf16240772…be1f0e83…2023-02-10 02:50:57 <asciilifeform> ( for thread-completeness -- the ~other~ purpose of addrcast is to make it so that a new peering where both sides are present on same pestnet not requires exchanging AT entries at all. so same q, how much to spam )
2f38ef5e3eb64791…eb2d67ad…2023-01-31 00:39:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 19:20:21 signpost: mega-grateful for blatta's existence. earlier commentary was about standardizing tooling so folks who want to can collaborate without pointless toil.
724e28e9c772d628…c772d628…2023-02-02 03:30:17 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-29#1021695 << the hardest part so far is figuring out how Generator(…).choice(…) relates to xorshift1024 algo
36976295ac63f5ac…064bf2f8…2023-02-02 18:38:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021952 << nah, simply 'martian or not', i.e. iron anti-ddos pill
906f3e38898c03b7…898c03b7…2022-12-18 03:14:24 asciilifeform meanwhile got demo for ye olde 'wx' guiism building on dulap-gentoo & crapple without coad changes
14cbf8de68e4a444…bcdb73df…2023-02-08 16:09:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 10:10:35 phf[deedbot]: why not grab some useful chatgpt interaction when you are particularly pleased with it, and write an article about it, or even a paste
9fea0d96a94afdbf…16240772…2023-02-10 02:52:18 <phf> the idea is that if i connected through signpost only, but i have peering with awt and unpx, i should be able to get later's ATs without explicit negotiation?
e1bccf782f38ef5e…4e06a546…2023-01-31 00:41:22 <asciilifeform> dunno that window for 'world domination from desk' was ever open, lol
cd18a118724e28e9…c772d628…2023-02-02 03:31:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-29 13:57:20 signpost: http://trinque.org/2023/01/18/ocpy_squirt_slurp/ << latest src
33aeff0c36976295…7126cbd8…2023-02-02 18:40:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 12:56:12 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021943 << valid signatures only or even broader validation? something that requires memory (like getdata flagging)?
2db46e33906f3e38…906f3e38…2022-12-18 03:15:27 <asciilifeform> oughta be reasonably usable gui skin, in principle can link an ada pestron lib and minimal cpp gui turd as signpost suggested earlier.
42e6e29f14cbf8de…68e4a444…2023-02-08 16:08:54 <phf> because i can come up with usecases for chatgpt also, but i'm curious about something that came in flow
edecfb769fea0d96…a94afdbf…2023-02-10 02:52:46 <asciilifeform> supposing 1 and/or the other peers with signpost -- correct
2fcb118ecd18a118…724e28e9…2023-02-02 03:32:29 <phf> i assume "xorshift1024" that they use is from this paper https://vigna.di.unimi.it/ftp/papers/xorshift.pdf, but i'm not quite sure what sort of magic scipy's generator use to e.g. produce Generator(…).random() or choice() or any other results
7aca195933aeff0c…36976295…2023-02-02 18:40:40 <asciilifeform> ( will note, asciilifeform not expects to actually bake these, because not knows how to bake any iron whatsoever economically )
2900d5262db46e33…2db46e33…2022-12-18 03:16:52 <asciilifeform> ( on crapple: the lib installs via 'macports' fwiw : 'port install wxWidgets-3.2' )
672086d33223f06c…42e6e29f…2023-02-08 16:10:54 <phf> because if you start looking at imperfect examples of chatgpt output, well, the result here is ~factually~ invalid, so where do we go from here? if the objective of the original exercise was to get a couple of practical sb-bsd-sockets examples, that obviously didn't work. is the im |`pf'Μ{{;v+QgM=S"
872c76b8edecfb76…9fea0d96…2023-02-10 02:52:54 <phf> by explicit negotiaton i mean operator asking on channel, etc.
4fd27edefb3295e4…e1bccf78…2023-01-31 00:42:23 <asciilifeform> ( 'from cr beach & fine restaurants' similarly )
f44b52f62fcb118e…853384e1…2023-02-02 03:33:27 <signpost> worked with any of the provided prngs. I only put that one in because asciilifeform recommended it as one that's cheap to reseed.
7c039ab87aca1959…33aeff0c…2023-02-02 18:42:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 14:36:13 asciilifeform[5]: the unfortunate thing is that the only 'cheap' iron is likely to be whatever you currently have, + what's in scrapyard
572c1daf672086d3…672086d3…2023-02-08 16:10:54 <phf> agined interface good enough? it's a riff on usocket, so i guess it's not bad |`pf'Μ{{;v+QgM=S"
fe4f64d3672086d3…3223f06c…2023-02-08 16:10:57 <signpost> been deleting because their UI is shitty for threads
ada40b95f44b52f6…f44b52f6…2023-02-02 03:34:10 <signpost> iirc numpy uses alias method to generate choices from a biased distribution. cribbed some guys impl of same for the lisp one I wrote.
1605f3d47c039ab8…7aca1959…2023-02-02 18:41:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021956 << actual farm, i.e. taking things to market ? (or simply home garden?)
4c981ce940621444…40621444…2022-12-18 03:19:31 <asciilifeform> crapple build cmd for subj (on linux, 'wx-config' normally in default bin paths)
aa2594b2572c1daf…fe4f64d3…2023-02-08 16:11:53 <signpost> lemme see if I can coach it like the autistic junior dev. sec
5594acd9a2ccf412…19431a6c…2023-02-10 02:54:36 <asciilifeform> is mechanical (and confidential) substitute for 'ask him on pestnet what is his ip'
11986f207e463d0c…6e6d42b8…2023-01-31 00:43:13 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-29 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-29#1090466 << imho 'expectations inflation' was a serious & ultimately fatal disease of #t
2a8d4fadada40b95…2fcb118e…2023-02-02 03:34:44 <phf> well, the point is more that the message block edges generator should probably be explicitly spelled out in python code
4e45cf7b1605f3d4…7c039ab8…2023-02-02 18:43:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 13:30:22 billymg[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021803 << i'm in a similar mode currently. at some point towards the end of last year something finally flipped for me and i decided to fully embrace living on a farm/compound vs. the sort of "digital nomad" / "i'm just a tourist
d1484afd4c981ce9…4c981ce9…2022-12-18 17:41:06 <phf> useful, but i'll wait couple of months before the dust settles
1bf8ae74aa2594b2…572c1daf…2023-02-08 16:12:21 <phf> but where chatgpt "worked on its own" it's junk. e.g. send-message could've taken format-like arguments, and then one wouldn't need to write (format nil "" ...) in every single send-message invocation
26408d5511986f20…7e463d0c…2023-01-31 00:45:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021873 << generally folx 'give up' long before actually weak from old age, is the thing (vs., e.g. paul erdos was still doing his thing when died, in his 80s)
75bd14ff4e45cf7b…1605f3d4…2023-02-02 18:43:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1021954 << asciilifeform still wonders how many ~actually~ escaped, given observation 'where you actually live is where yer dough lives'
8448f8044e45cf7b…82da090b…2023-06-30 18:29:54 <awt_akris> About ready to try to make a build I can share.
77c4dde1d1484afd…d1484afd…2022-12-18 17:41:34 <phf> in before "ascii: they use buz to frob! what heathens! wx is totally compromised!"
45fd03d5678d7510…5594acd9…2023-02-10 03:00:32 asciilifeform in similar vein once suggested 'just send an 'ignore' to whole ipv4 space' lel
4960c00c26408d55…2f38ef5e…2023-01-31 00:46:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 19:39:58 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021868 << Ty and yes I understood. I'm just at a point where I only have like a decade of declining productivity left. Gotta choose wisely.
515deeb375bd14ff…4e45cf7b…2023-02-02 18:44:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 13:27:49 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-30#1021796 << i do think there would be a market for that here with expats who [thought that they] escaped the totalitarian west
7632af0077c4dde1…4c981ce9…2022-12-18 18:01:33 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform used it befoar, many times, ancient cpp thing.
c3f0a29545fd03d5…45fd03d5…2023-02-10 03:00:53 <asciilifeform> on decent pipe, not even takes so long
055f930409ef0fd9…2a8d4fad…2023-02-02 03:36:59 <phf> on one hand i can probably figure out how to match whatever scipy does, but on the other hand it seems like lowkey waste of time. so far my strategy was to just call out from lisp into a python script to provide me with correct random numbers :D
8d214065515deeb3…ac63f5ac…2023-02-02 18:53:04 <billymg> asciilifeform: i don't even have a home garden, only some chickens
770402267632af00…7632af00…2022-12-18 18:02:29 <asciilifeform> worx reasonably well (maps to 'native' guiisms on various os) but quite fiddly.
6e30ac89aee2176c…1bf8ae74…2023-02-08 16:14:07 <phf> lol, it just replace socket with sb-bsd-sockets, but sbcl's sb-bsd-sockets interface is different
5e5974f9c3f0a295…c3f0a295…2023-02-10 03:01:00 <asciilifeform> won't cure nat tho (quite the opposite..)
09039cbcf50ebed1…3eb64791…2023-01-31 00:58:17 <awt> asciilifeform: I ain't giving up. In fact more determined than ever. Had some weird sort of chronic fatigue that took me out for almost 2 years. I've slowly recovered and holy shit you really don't appreciate your health until it's gone.
f47e8e8a055f9304…e573c6e3…2023-02-02 04:05:21 asciilifeform ftr not has atm even faintest clue re what kinda prng would work best for lubyism. ( aside from obv., e.g. 'need reasonably long period' and 'not ruinously cpu-costly' )
56047b808d214065…75bd14ff…2023-02-02 18:46:48 <asciilifeform> billymg: even here lotsa folx have these nao
fbeebb9b77040226…77040226…2022-12-18 18:04:12 <asciilifeform> phf: in other lulz, recently tried oddball commercial proggy editor from the pycharm etc. people -- 'clion'. notbad imho.
e94c83ca5e5974f9…5e5974f9…2023-02-10 03:02:26 <asciilifeform> iirc 'spam all of ipv4' takes ~40min on a gb/s pipe (if you have a decent map of the lacunae in the space, that is)
1ae2907609039cbc…f50ebed1…2023-01-31 02:39:15 <asciilifeform> awt: entirely tru re health. happy to hear that you recovered.
ff9449b3f47e8e8a…055f9304…2023-02-02 04:15:03 <phf> it's a separate question from pure "which prng", signpost in ocpy is using a numpy mechanism around underlying xorshift1024 implementation
04cd650656047b80…8d214065…2023-02-02 18:54:29 <billymg> yeah, i didn't mean i'm prepping for when the grocery stores close
aa6104f6fbeebb9b…fbeebb9b…2022-12-18 18:05:31 <asciilifeform> ( the 1 minus, other than the obv 'notemacs!11' and commercialware, is that it's rather slow -- seems to run a megatonne of java internally )
3ad20942e94c83ca…678d7510…2023-02-10 03:04:36 <phf> also calling the person over phone and asking him for his new ip
58c3be21ff9449b3…ff9449b3…2023-02-02 04:16:28 <phf> numpy separates "bit_generator" which is an object that managers underlying prng state from higher level "generator" which gives you a variety of methods for e.g. doing choice() or getting integer within a range
617c09771c047cc2…04cd6506…2023-02-02 18:55:45 <billymg> for one i don't think that will happen, and there are enough small farm operations in my area that i could probably barter with them
fe895c24aa6104f6…77c4dde1…2022-12-18 18:08:40 <phf> asciilifeform, i use clion, pycharm and intellij almost exclusively for dev work
78abad733ad20942…e94c83ca…2023-02-10 03:05:01 <asciilifeform> fwiw initial pest bringup already requires an out-of-band talk, so yes
9fe151fb58c3be21…58c3be21…2023-02-02 04:17:32 <phf> which makes producing a predictable and specific sequence out of the same prng but in multiple different implementations a non-trivial exercise in reversing
e88b96fc617c0977…1c047cc2…2023-02-02 18:49:16 <asciilifeform> a, saw 'farm/compound', assumed > 'backyard chicken'
7805c834b00de9b4…b00de9b4…2023-02-08 16:18:24 <signpost> it is probably abuse to ask it to write in a language that isn't Our Democracy approved.
a7d3143778abad73…78abad73…2023-02-10 03:06:30 <asciilifeform> getting an addr, tho, unlike key exchange, oughn't require talking to $peer directly, is the point tho.
008b71ed9fe151fb…09ef0fd9…2023-02-02 04:51:12 <signpost> yeah, and there's some magic involved in massaging seeds I haven't scrutinized yet.
9c523944e88b96fc…617c0977…2023-02-02 18:58:03 <billymg> asciilifeform: there was just so much that needed to be done, it was overwhelming, realized i would have to get involved myself. can't just hire idiot contractor and not know what they're doing
9be940becc3e231c…fe895c24…2022-12-18 18:09:40 <phf> i kind of wish they rolled clion into idea as a plugin (the way pycharm is available as "python" plugin in idea)
3332f68b7805c834…6e30ac89…2023-02-08 16:19:34 <phf> well, i'm more amused that the experience of "trying to get a june to do the right thing" has been captured ~exactly~ :D
953f46dca7d31437…a7d31437…2023-02-10 03:06:43 <asciilifeform> merely talking to someone he's already able to talk to.
01edbd5d008b71ed…008b71ed…2023-02-02 04:54:05 <signpost> I oughta possibly pull all the usages of numpy's generator into one place so they're easy to reimplement, possibly lopping off the reliance on numpy for that.
367209e49c523944…9c523944…2023-02-02 18:59:51 <billymg> when i got up into one of the ceiling recently to run the wire for a security cam system realized how bad things can turn out when you just let the contractor do it
2b9b24649be940be…cc3e231c…2022-12-18 18:10:00 <asciilifeform> prolly would weigh evenmoar if they rolled errything into 1 editor
a415889d953f46dc…953f46dc…2023-02-10 03:11:37 <asciilifeform> ( apropos, in the 'spam ipv4 thread', iirc noted that if it suffices to find ~one~ of your peers, then if you have n of'em, bringup of AT-less but properly keyed station is suddenly practical. only need to hit 1. )
b82ec5a8367209e4…e88b96fc…2023-02-02 18:53:25 asciilifeform personally not sees appeal of bananistan, after learned about prices, not only of real estate but extortionate import taxes, remailer fees, etc
3612fe642b9b2464…2b9b2464…2022-12-18 18:10:20 <asciilifeform> (nfi what their plugin architecture is like)
3a220662a415889d…a415889d…2023-02-10 03:14:34 <asciilifeform> may seem idiotic, but can think of at least 1 scenario where it'd win -- e.g. sumbody who switches on station very infrequently
7491c41db82ec5a8…b82ec5a8…2023-02-02 18:54:15 <asciilifeform> de gustibus non est disputandum (tm) tho.
9343a805b82ec5a8…367209e4…2023-02-02 19:01:01 <billymg> asciilifeform: don't need bananistan, plenty of rural parts of the US where you could do this
122f08cbd9cb87f3…3332f68b…2023-02-08 16:22:55 <phf> i suspect it doesn't know anything about sb-bsd-sockets, because it can't get those calls right
a4e3f77e3a220662…3a220662…2023-02-10 03:14:56 <asciilifeform> 'i was at sea for a year and where did erryone go'
d93cb9467491c41d…9343a805…2023-02-02 19:01:45 billymg is not trying to convince asciilifeform, already knows the 9001 reasons why he can't/won't
4c31fb4a9343a805…7491c41d…2023-02-02 18:55:09 <asciilifeform> billymg: 'rural usa' tends to mean 'satellite net pipe' and (what can't buy from local farm) phood -- from lolmart
bcc228ae122f08cb…122f08cb…2023-02-08 16:25:49 <phf> it's like a fractal of errors, i only just noticed the \r\n in the format string
acd0bcc9a4e3f77e…a4e3f77e…2023-02-10 03:16:16 <asciilifeform> in principle, pest oughta take ~erry~ possible advantage of the fact that you only need to get 1 packet through to establish a link w/ peer.
72ddde702409284b…0c4dc047…2022-12-18 18:11:23 <phf> in practice you end up with two heavy editors running in parallel, and you have to maintain separate set of key bindings and styles and such
d85bdcf82409284b…2409284b…2022-12-18 18:11:25 asciilifeform likes the various 'smart' pheatures, e.g. formal parameter names displayed next to givens, the built-in linter, etc
e9e9adb5bcc228ae…bcc228ae…2023-02-08 16:29:15 <phf> by the way, since one rarely sees that, and there's no way chatgpt knows anything about it, the way you write this without the extra format is (defun foo (fmt &rest args) (format nil "~?~c~c" fmt args #\return #\newline))
df792702acd0bcc9…3ad20942…2023-02-10 03:17:19 <phf> i like the idea of leaving pest bots in various corners of the internet
46b9b19572ddde70…d85bdcf8…2022-12-18 18:12:08 asciilifeform would like evenmoar if had faster box to put it on , lol
0fac6121d85bdcf8…72ddde70…2022-12-18 18:12:06 <phf> it's ridiculous how powerful the system is. emacs sisters can't compete.
3adc84cee9e9adb5…e9e9adb5…2023-02-08 16:31:20 <phf> i'm pretty sure sbcl has it wrong, because it's implementation dependent, but the correct way of handling newline,return is on a stream configuration level. you say something like :external-format (utf-8 crlf), and then you can do simple (format stream "~%") and get both characters spooled
a23ec23bdf792702…acd0bcc9…2023-02-10 03:18:34 <asciilifeform> phf: a la deedbot on dulapnet ? wainot
664660c2e7d288bc…2697cb4c…2023-02-02 18:56:42 <asciilifeform> iirc phf got it to work (tho didn't say how much time/dough spends on 'going to town' to resupply)
b21e6ce53adc84ce…972c9b4c…2023-02-08 17:05:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022619 << seems likely that the training set included a snippet which referred to sumbody's actually existing 'sockets' pkg
017eecb5664660c2…664660c2…2023-02-02 18:57:56 <asciilifeform> as asciilifeform understands, it only worx well 'as part of balanced diet' of actually socializing with the locals / building into meatwot
96f1ae8638da8d20…46b9b195…2022-12-18 18:13:23 <asciilifeform> will prolly end up using it on that box. ( currently haven't a permanent fixture for it (dedicated lcd etc) tho )
41f3df00b21e6ce5…14cbf8de…2023-02-08 17:06:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 11:07:54 signpost: well, like it hallucinated a socket package. is it not trained enough on CL code? did I insufficiently prompt the thing to not pretend other code exists
355dbe9dc72c1ebe…c72c1ebe…2023-02-10 03:19:31 <asciilifeform> intended use there, tho, is drawing in n00bs
5d731b44017eecb5…e7d288bc…2023-02-02 19:05:48 <billymg> asciilifeform: is what i'm doing now, and part of what i meant by no longer in the "digital nomad" / tourist mentality
65345d5596f1ae86…38da8d20…2022-12-18 18:14:03 <phf> i've used e.g. clion to refactor gnu diff for vtools, and i don't think i would've bothered and managed otherwise. highlights unused code, variable and function renames, jump to source that's not stuck in the 80s, "who calls", etc. etc. etc.
b172ce8b96f1ae86…96f1ae86…2022-12-18 18:14:30 asciilifeform has the 'minimal' m1 box, the fanless 13in lappy thing
ce8cacef41f3df00…b21e6ce5…2023-02-08 17:07:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022615 << the 1 obv diff is that typically even most 'chromosomally-challenged' indian dev (at least occasionally) ~runs~ the coad
ba704bb0355dbe9d…df792702…2023-02-10 03:20:24 <phf> right, you still need an addresscast. you can e.g. get a temp peer with deedbot, and then broadcast through it
3b87886265345d55…b172ce8b…2022-12-18 18:15:15 <asciilifeform> aha, pretty neat imho (and beats the shit outta msvs for this kinda thing)
3ceae7d8b172ce8b…65345d55…2022-12-18 18:15:00 <phf> i hear if you load couple of megs worth of badly written junk into emacs you can approximate 20% of intellij
fea8b16dce8cacef…41f3df00…2023-02-08 17:08:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 10:59:41 phf[awt|deedbot]: so we're kind of back to "reviewing pull requests from 22 year old developmentally challenged junes"
d54cd1a5ba704bb0…355dbe9d…2023-02-10 03:21:31 <asciilifeform> correct. simply pointing out that in principle not necessary for existing (i.e. keyed) peer to find such a corner, even in worst case where both sides ip-drifted in such a way that can reach no one
f73631e53ceae7d8…3b878862…2022-12-18 18:15:47 <asciilifeform> phf: historically what asciilifeform did, yea
c18e3ce2d54cd1a5…d54cd1a5…2023-02-10 03:21:52 <asciilifeform> ~40min of spam cannon and yer back in biz
2c50d6436207ea62…5d731b44…2023-02-02 19:06:48 <billymg> for instance, first remodeling project i did here pretty much just forked over dough to an expat, gave design direction, waited for result
764c7a19f73631e5…f73631e5…2022-12-18 18:17:11 <asciilifeform> rather typical case of 'commercial outfit did honest job, opensores folx making do with duct tape'
7ce0fbf4cf4993ae…cf4993ae…2023-02-08 17:13:37 <phf> which i suspect is the most widely used compatability layer, drakma and hunchentoot both use it, etc.
da1a6d8bc18e3ce2…c18e3ce2…2023-02-10 03:22:15 <asciilifeform> (on acct of 'bday paradox', likely much less )
476e6ff7764c7a19…764c7a19…2022-12-18 18:18:29 asciilifeform in commercial worx sadly mired in a lang where precious little exists in the way of serious tooling (aside from the usual 'pile of badly-written elisps')
40e6f1267ce0fbf4…d9cb87f3…2023-02-08 17:15:18 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022647 << yup. ben pointed out to me that interaction with a compiler is easy to model as a conversation. would be interesting to see how it deals with that output.
2bb08f5cda1a6d8b…da1a6d8b…2023-02-10 03:24:05 <asciilifeform> i.e. hypothetically, pest letsya treat the net as a (sloow) broadcast medium, if necessary.
0a2601ce3184e594…6207ea62…2023-02-02 19:00:40 asciilifeform spent a great deal of time remodeling w/ hands.
86042660476e6ff7…3ceae7d8…2022-12-18 18:19:29 <phf> there's some crazy powerful functionality there. like for example when i was fixing mpwp for sqlite, i also upgraded it to php8x, because i don't want to bother with trying to hand compile some vintage version. there was a lot of deprecations, which are no longer supported, and it' E>n
G4T^aKVSBei
0bc82c9c40e6f126…fea8b16d…2023-02-08 17:16:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 12:08:25 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022615 << the 1 obv diff is that typically even most 'chromosomally-challenged' indian dev (at least occasionally) ~runs~ the coad
275000b12bb08f5c…2bb08f5c…2023-02-10 03:25:19 <asciilifeform> possibly could even have client where omit manual AT entry entirely...
69d944f90a2601ce…3184e594…2023-02-02 19:07:43 <billymg> asciilifeform: passport in costa rica is only after 5-7 years
68d8132186042660…86042660…2022-12-18 18:19:29 <phf> s dumb shit like: $a->{0} syntax needs to be replaced with $a->[0] syntax. E>n
G4T^aKVSBei
4c12a0fc0bc82c9c…40e6f126…2023-02-08 17:15:57 <signpost> and yeah, runtime errors. wouldn't be hard to bolt an interpreter to this thing when they open the API.
73ad0d97275000b1…275000b1…2023-02-10 03:26:37 <asciilifeform> sounds like a lul, but think, yer on 'mobile' station, ip changes maybe multiple times each day, and you meet somebody and want to exchange keys. not even makes sense to give him an at entry.
d8bc0a9668d81321…68d81321…2022-12-18 18:20:53 <phf> well intellij php support will highlight the instance of $a->{0} for you, and then you can bring up a menu and either replace $a->{0} with $a->[0] automatically, or find other such cases in the codebase and replace all of them
c84189e24c12a0fc…4c12a0fc…2023-02-08 17:27:17 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=9YTG << example of something that's close enough to right that it saves me time.
c71b6cef73ad0d97…73ad0d97…2023-02-10 03:27:45 <asciilifeform> a fully grown pest client oughta include the cannon, and then can peer even if yer both 'vagrants' with 'no fixed place of residence'(tm)
eade4613c84189e2…c84189e2…2023-02-08 17:27:47 <signpost> can pick nits in intellij for 5min rather than farting around figuring out how JavaPoet expresses what I want it to do.
6481843dc71b6cef…c71b6cef…2023-02-10 03:28:50 <asciilifeform> ( tho at least 1 side oughta be un-nat'd, obv )
2d8b0744e89e1e3c…7ddb9862…2023-02-02 19:09:46 <billymg> no, but in doses large enough for http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-05-31#1104372
b7db4470f1e8d0f6…f1e8d0f6…2022-12-18 18:21:33 <asciilifeform> beats the shit outta 'nao beat sed into submission for next hr' errytime
bd6d6a56eade4613…eade4613…2023-02-08 17:29:18 <signpost> and yeah, probably made this salad from querydsl, jooq, etc.
f31cf5c36481843d…ba704bb0…2023-02-10 03:32:02 <phf> yeah, that nat problem makes it not as elegant as it could be
6bf500b12d8b0744…515deeb3…2023-02-02 19:04:35 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-31 asciilifeform: juggling bits, interestingly, appears not to provide this basic nutrient. even on modern shitcomp, softs behave too much like ideal 'spherical horse' philosophical object, do not supply the needed contact with reality ( and, worse, dysfunctional in ways which ~actively promote~ ins
5d288222b7db4470…d8bc0a96…2022-12-18 18:23:14 <phf> $a->{ $foo + $bar->{i/n} } but multline. goodluck!
4ad06b99bd6d6a56…7ce0fbf4…2023-02-08 17:32:19 <phf> what's the underlying sql? it's querying tables like SCHEMATA and TABLES, which i don't know what it is. can it do the same but with postgresql's schema table conventions?
3a3a3f0bf31cf5c3…6481843d…2023-02-10 03:33:02 <asciilifeform> for so long as pestnet not consists entirely of hobos , still worx
d8cf1cc56bf500b1…2d8b0744…2023-02-02 19:11:11 <billymg> or did you mean for passport? in that case, yes
8ca19b105d288222…5d288222…2022-12-18 18:24:45 <phf> genera's emacs has builtin multifile macro and search facilities, that i've seen people rave about in the old cll messages, but i haven't explored it yet. allegedly makes handling cases like that easier. of course none of it is available in emacs
bb99f4834ad06b99…4ad06b99…2023-02-08 17:35:24 <phf> i guess the meat relevant to your interests is in generateJavaClasses, and the open question is whether or not the use of TypeSpec and FieldSpec are correct. they probably are, but..
757a32ec3a3a3f0b…f31cf5c3…2023-02-10 03:35:23 <phf> in reality will probably really on a handful of heavily connected nodes, like deedbot and dulapbot
10deac1dd8cf1cc5…d8cf1cc5…2023-02-02 19:11:38 <billymg> can take trips, but some limit on how long you can be away from the us
b3d6e09c8ca19b10…b7db4470…2022-12-18 18:26:51 <asciilifeform> emacs 'tarpit', 'where errything is possible but nuffin of interest is' easy/reliable
2443a551bb99f483…bb99f483…2023-02-08 17:46:39 <phf> you can't trick me, wizard, by throwing a wall of java boilerplate! just look at generateJavaClasses and what sort of structure it's actually generating
669021c8757a32ec…757a32ec…2023-02-10 03:36:29 <phf> like once i work out the kinks(tm), will stand up a logging station like btcbase, which will probably end up being one of just a handful of peers for the roaming station
a9ac64c4b3d6e09c…8ca19b10…2022-12-18 18:27:11 <phf> afaiu it has a handful of primitives for saving current operation context, and then doing a bit of free operations, and then adding a handful of deliberate operations to the saved context. which afaiu solves the annoying emacs macro problem of "i'm in macro editing mode, now i need [(?럓*^
GF ̘nzI
bee15ec22443a551…2443a551…2023-02-08 17:46:50 <phf> it's utter utter jank, it's worse than common lisp
e143d090669021c8…3a3a3f0b…2023-02-10 03:37:56 asciilifeform considered a 'slave mode' which merely fwds packets, but this is tricky for the obv. reasons
559c1b19157e2f79…157e2f79…2023-02-02 19:12:41 <billymg> no one here cares about anything though, see e.g.
23ba4dd9a9ac64c4…a9ac64c4…2022-12-18 18:27:11 <phf> to type the sequence PRECISELY or else restart from scratch. oops i accidentally pushed wrong key" [(?럓*^
GF ̘nzI
2861faf8bee15ec2…bd6d6a56…2023-02-08 17:52:36 <signpost> this was a reproduction of code I ended up using in a current project.
27dcce85e143d090…e143d090…2023-02-10 03:39:13 <asciilifeform> in 0xfb, instead proposed 'slave mode' where msgs coming through $peer (who you know to be one of your personal bots) are treated as 0bounce. but this afaik not implemented anywhere atm.
fd157a492a87d0a6…17ee7f96…2023-02-02 19:07:48 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 14:10:58 asciilifeform: awt: not only report, but this appears to be enuff of a headache for'em that in many places they simply tell you to fuckoff if you've only us passport.
81c17aa9559c1b19…6bf500b1…2023-02-02 19:07:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 13:55:41 awt: asciilifeform: I was in fact already stopped a few days after the limit. For some reason they let me off and gave me a fist bump.
7abe387523ba4dd9…23ba4dd9…2022-12-18 18:30:32 <phf> it's sort of captured in emacs's "recursive edit", but afaiu recursive edit was never fleshed out, and it's discouraged from use, and nobody knows how it works anyway. where's genera went all in on recursive edit and there's shit ton of functionality that lets you suspend whatever BmʫCUU
qn儾Eso;
c259f2fa2861faf8…2861faf8…2023-02-08 17:52:59 <signpost> wanted a rigid representation of the schema without a giant ORM dependency.
64b18d0527dcce85…27dcce85…2023-02-10 03:39:36 <asciilifeform> (and not handles direct msgs in any way)
1a92468afd157a49…2a87d0a6…2023-02-02 19:08:22 <asciilifeform> reich won't letcha outta their tax plantation unless you have new 1
3ea4caea7abe3875…7abe3875…2022-12-18 18:30:32 <phf> current operation, and manipulate it later in creative ways BmʫCUU
qn儾Eso;
58df8043c259f2fa…c259f2fa…2023-02-08 17:53:14 <signpost> and yeah, it got the use of JavaPoet mostly right
f400369264b18d05…669021c8…2023-02-10 03:40:45 <phf> it's fairly trivial to cook up a relay bot out of the bits in pest.lisp
b8d577ab1a92468a…320b6283…2023-02-02 19:15:34 <billymg> asciilifeform: that's true, still gotta file taxes every year
45ab9e953ea4caea…3ea4caea…2022-12-18 18:32:02 <phf> i don't know if i care that my editor knows exactly that $a->{0} needs to be replaced with $a->[0], because on the surface there ought to be a handful of simple primitive tools that should give you an ability to do that kind of manipulation in a syntactically aware way across the entire codebase
30227fbd58df8043…58df8043…2023-02-08 18:00:34 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wYE2 << it misunderstood, because I wanted it to use the postgres-specific catalog, pg_*, but I didn't say specifically either.
1abcbb7bf4003692…64b18d05…2023-02-10 03:40:54 <asciilifeform> ( from e.g. asciilifeform's pov, a bounce-1 via dulapbot is precisely as authentic as a bounce-0 )
2f6a90cd45ab9e95…45ab9e95…2022-12-18 18:32:23 <phf> certainly without having to write fucking sed, jesus christ
a734e5f130227fbd…bee15ec2…2023-02-08 18:01:56 <phf> i guess you asked it to give you something like FooSchema.FooTable.FooColumn.NAME kind of stuff?
aeb9c7d054ad6459…b8d577ab…2023-02-02 19:17:07 <billymg> asciilifeform: to be fair though, i imagine you could even officially renounce, have it officially accepted, and still be shaken down at some later date if some bureaucrat is having a bad day and happens to notice you for whatever reason
e0fe64832f6a90cd…2f6a90cd…2022-12-18 18:34:38 <phf> and emacs sort of has the necessary primitives "move forward by token" "move forward by nested structure", but because it's driven by zoomer microsoft transplants, that functionality is underdeveloped, underexplored and is generally replaced with inept attempt to "make it like lintellij!!1"
1a5a8175f5f66d8d…1abcbb7b…2023-02-10 03:41:47 <asciilifeform> the elegant pill is to make it simply a one turn of knob setting, with stock clients, rather than requiring a dedicated bot proggy
95444fcfe0fe6483…e0fe6483…2022-12-18 18:37:53 <phf> emacs and freesoftware are like microcosm illustration of the transplant problem. "i'm moving from a bad place to good place. *some time later* it's my right and desire to have properties of bad place in your good place"
70aa0a2e1a5a8175…1a5a8175…2023-02-10 03:42:04 <asciilifeform> then -- set up bot in proper dc, and is as good as sitting there yerself
e124f21506a01c49…06a01c49…2023-02-08 18:04:56 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=OG7P << not gonna make it do the whole thing, but the queries look right
9c932e3870aa0a2e…70aa0a2e…2023-02-10 03:43:16 <asciilifeform> ( the obv. downside is that if said box is stolen, you gotta issue new keys out of band. )
864f50d2e124f215…a734e5f1…2023-02-08 18:20:17 <phf> curiously the one place where we have a chatgpt produced code in our codebase (as a kind of "first!" novelty) is also dealing with sql/orm generating bunch of methods/properties from schema
312bb5cf9c932e38…9c932e38…2023-02-10 04:06:18 <phf> i remember mp at some point objected to everyone idling on bouncers, after having voiced themselves, on account of opsec. he wasn't too insistent on it, so it didn't go anywhere, but the problem remains.
0c5b03e70c1e5738…54ad6459…2023-02-02 19:11:11 <asciilifeform> billymg: not heard of a documented case of this actually happening to date. tho obv not impossible
3ff309eb48245dc0…dfe2cdd5…2022-12-18 19:54:17 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-04-16 asciilifeform: ( for the log : '... like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item. Ever
02d5b06f864f50d2…ce8cacef…2023-02-08 18:22:05 asciilifeform supposes that the time when anyone gaveashit re: fact that microshit (or whoever operates the bot) gets yer entire src, is long past
e0f6264b312bb5cf…9c932e38…2023-02-10 06:17:45 <asciilifeform> phf: was pretty good demo, imho, of 'uncatchable joe'(tm)
bb1566490c5b03e7…0c5b03e7…2023-02-02 19:11:22 <asciilifeform> (outside of cases where victim voluntarily returned to usa)
e2cff3dd3ff309eb…48245dc0…2022-12-18 19:55:42 <asciilifeform> phf: not sure i agree re 'is the fault of microshit escapees'. yea they failed to build emacs up 'to bolix standard', but this aint surprising, they've never seen zmacs.
01fd406502d5b06f…e124f215…2023-02-08 18:23:29 <signpost> yep, MSFT is the major investor in OpenAI, and owns shithub
2a227496e0f6264b…e0f6264b…2023-02-10 06:21:36 <asciilifeform> ( that, and/or the fact that erryone knew that very little could be achieved by hijacking a bouncer. )
9a1a2151bb156649…01edbd5d…2023-02-02 19:11:37 signpost learned recently that can't renounce on behalf of one's child, lol
e39b9f0fe2cff3dd…e2cff3dd…2022-12-18 19:55:59 <asciilifeform> moar interesting q is wai 'golden age' authors of emacs failed to do so. (many of'em -- seen)
e72a720901fd4065…02d5b06f…2023-02-08 18:24:38 <asciilifeform> using the bot is effective same thing, afaik, as uploading yer entire proggy to shithub
0b53f0b42a227496…2a227496…2023-02-10 16:04:59 <asciilifeform> of possible interest re yest'd thrd -- asciilifeform recalls, when testing ada udp, receiving coupla oddball 'martians' with no obvious structure
d12b3a449a1a2151…0c1e5738…2023-02-02 19:18:42 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022006 << i don't pay taxes twice, no
972a622de39b9f0f…e39b9f0f…2022-12-18 19:59:04 <asciilifeform> re 'clion' etc. -- also not surprising, imho, that it 'does Right Thing' : the atrocious state of the art in softs makes Right Thing require titanic labour, which commercial outfit solves by throwing manpower at $problem (and opensores 'solves' by 'you dun need this, lamer', lol)
dbfc6bc7e72a7209…01fd4065…2023-02-08 18:25:06 <signpost> yup. item I'm feeding it is BSD licensed code though.
6e3059820b53f0b4…1f27e810…2023-02-10 16:06:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-09 22:25:36 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: i.e. hypothetically, pest letsya treat the net as a (sloow) broadcast medium, if necessary.
54daf4abd12b3a44…bb156649…2023-02-02 19:12:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: iirc usa inmate Officially owes tax even if living off reservation
40159bf9d12b3a44…81c17aa9…2023-02-02 19:13:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 14:11:04 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: not only file, but pay twice neh
18246fb2972a622d…972a622d…2022-12-18 20:00:20 <asciilifeform> it may be simply that bolix-type functionality can only be implemented (with volunteer hands, that is) on bolix-like sane system.
b50beaffdbfc6bc7…864f50d2…2023-02-08 18:25:26 <phf> asciilifeform, it's well aligned with the idea that nobody's going to use chatgpt to build a republic. writing java for postgresql schema, writing "thank you very much for talking to me earlier" emails, etc.
4e8e1f716e305982…0b53f0b4…2023-02-10 16:05:31 <asciilifeform> i.e. entirely possible that sumbody already was doing precisely that.
d36fd1ca520bd6b3…54daf4ab…2023-02-02 19:12:49 <asciilifeform> usa afaik the only jursdiction that does
f780c9e4b50beaff…b50beaff…2023-02-08 18:26:27 <phf> which goes back to my point of http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022593
f98b59e14e8e1f71…4e8e1f71…2023-02-10 16:06:27 <asciilifeform> ( if had to guess who -- botnet client , to avoid hardcoding control box addr )
2c3a1a1ad36fd1ca…520bd6b3…2023-02-02 19:19:56 <billymg> signpost: not your child, belongs to the 'village'
3a5ec3b4705f2e32…95444fcf…2022-12-18 20:10:44 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018880 << i think they tried, and i believe i've ranted about it before. fwiw there was definitely a period where simply "outputs a window in x11!" was an achievement. the mythical emacs 19, etc
a2db73bff780c9e4…0bc82c9c…2023-02-08 18:27:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 10:39:25 phf[awt|deedbot]: so my thought on the subject of chatgpt is that perhaps it solved the kind of problems that one shouldn't have to begin with, but if one does, then it's a good solution, and nothing more.
5561972af98b59e1…f98b59e1…2023-02-10 16:09:05 asciilifeform vaguely recalls sumbody running a 'ipv4 radiotelescope' and picking these up en masse, but not recalls any interesting conclusions
5abec17a2c3a1a1a…9a1a2151…2023-02-02 19:13:59 <signpost> yup, beaten into one at every step of the journey.
0ee1e8e33a5ec3b4…639d8d62…2022-12-18 20:11:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 14:57:12 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: moar interesting q is wai 'golden age' authors of emacs failed to do so. (many of'em -- seen)
02593ca0a2db73bf…dbfc6bc7…2023-02-08 18:27:05 <signpost> right. what political failing made the database speak SQL but the program speak... kind of problem
53ce3d395561972a…5561972a…2023-02-10 18:20:01 <phf> yeah, back when i got my first root box on a fast connection, i had a tcpdump running on the external device. the result was, as you would say, snooze
0c02aecf5abec17a…2c3a1a1a…2023-02-02 19:21:16 <billymg> asciilifeform: right, but where's the "double"?
37b147cc0ee1e8e3…3a5ec3b4…2022-12-18 20:12:16 <phf> and i will blame windows transplants for sure, because of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-10#1711940
7a49aa2802593ca0…f780c9e4…2023-02-08 18:27:11 <phf> a 22 year old june is the perfect analogy, because you're not going to involve him in the inner workings either
c864067e53ce3d39…5561972a…2023-02-10 18:24:56 <asciilifeform> phf: in the cited case, not quite snooze; but (unsurprisingly) entropic turds, impossible to make sense of w/out knowing what they came out of (and, prolly, the key)
b2ab41880c02aecf…d36fd1ca…2023-02-02 19:15:08 <asciilifeform> billymg: a, makes sense, not 'double' if cr not taxes foreign
c99474900c02aecf…0c02aecf…2023-02-02 19:21:45 billymg files taxes in the US with same accountant he was using when he resided there
753e70df37b147cc…37b147cc…2022-12-18 20:12:24 <phf> “(the old, not "modern") emacs approach was that you provide non-ambiguous, predictable building block operations that ~specific operator~ can build dwim tools out of. but those dwim tools shouldn't really leave your own toolbox”
30599a137a49aa28…02593ca0…2023-02-08 18:27:57 <signpost> and since this political failing occurred, then need a projection of the one to the other.
30a92aefc864067e…c864067e…2023-02-10 18:25:34 asciilifeform fwiw strongly suspects that variously pest-like nets have existed for many yrs
42e9f30e753e70df…753e70df…2022-12-18 20:13:38 <phf> and elswhere “when i started using emacs there was an almost ideological aversion to DWIM in the community, instead of having say smart context "search" thing you'd have a dozen search-foo-in-bar combinations, and that was thought The Right Thing. emacs has long been dragged in the dwim direction by the usual suspects”
e59296bc30599a13…30599a13…2023-02-08 18:28:27 <signpost> still smells too dismissive though, but I don't have a good counterargument to provide yet.
0a6fcee230a92aef…f5f66d8d…2023-02-10 19:27:26 <phf> huh, all kinds of weird behaviors if you run same pest key from multiple stations :>
7d1f4bb1decacebc…b2ab4188…2023-02-02 19:15:44 <asciilifeform> from asciilifeform's pov, tho, 90% of the point of getting outta usa is to get outta their tax
020b6b0042e9f30e…42e9f30e…2022-12-18 20:14:58 <phf> so 1000 flies idea exactly fails when it comes to microsoft transplants, because that's where theoretically could also compete with "throwing manpower at $problem", but don't because 1000 flies don't understand the problem. solve entirely different problem that they brought from their third world system
eed56707e59296bc…e59296bc…2023-02-08 18:30:06 <signpost> will we ever have one representation system that is so orderly and so reduced that this kind of redundant structure does not occur?
be5885490a6fcee2…0a6fcee2…2023-02-10 19:29:20 <phf> i guess that's to be expected, but there probably should be some awareness in the system of what to do when you start getting packets from different ips
bd08c79a020b6b00…020b6b00…2022-12-18 20:18:10 <phf> also example of failure of bazaar, etc. single vertical vision could've forced architectural integrity on emacs solutions, but even that barely. something like "magit" is arguably superior to the builtin vc-mode, but comes with a dozen of idiosyncratic behaviors. novel interaction ~Ty5iz#CƵd
1f67d4cfeed56707…7a49aa28…2023-02-08 18:30:17 <phf> well, are we then just reducing it to team trump team biden? because it's evidently Technology, with all kinds of interesting applications, but at present early stage, hampered by various political and social problems
dbda71a9be588549…30a92aef…2023-02-10 19:29:37 <asciilifeform> per spec, oughta simply update AT each time
b48b469a55555074…decacebc…2023-02-02 19:15:58 signpost not in any rush, but might buy an exit option at some point.
19368c55bd08c79a…bd08c79a…2022-12-18 20:18:10 <phf> modes built specifically for magit, code that relies on clojure-isms, etc. ~Ty5iz#CƵd
03f336d319368c55…19368c55…2022-12-18 20:24:40 <phf> i suppose at the end of the day it's turtles all the way day. e.g. emacs / xemacs schizm was over that very thing, bringing emacs closer to some genera ideal
7cfec2eafc2e63b8…fc2e63b8…2023-02-08 18:31:07 <signpost> meanwhile found some folks that claim to have an open source comparable model. going to fart around with it, the logs, and the nvidia card
b552d27d80211500…80211500…2023-02-10 19:46:33 <asciilifeform> ( per spec, stations are distinguished by key strictly, i.e. absolutely no diff b/w a properly-config'd station using >1 ip and 'coarse error of pilotage' where 1 key on >1 box, other than the inevitable chain fuckery )
c8ee79a3c6ddc993…7d1f4bb1…2023-02-02 19:18:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022013 << afaik only worx 1-way, 'roach motel'-style (can enlist child into usg slavery, but not take out)
f2f31ca903f336d3…03f336d3…2022-12-18 20:25:21 <phf> and presumably stallman never even used zemacs on anything but CADR, so possibly also didn't see any reason to emulate the voodoo
77f900c37cfec2ea…1f67d4cf…2023-02-08 18:31:58 <phf> yeah, there's a bunch of /g/ posts on subj, i want to look into eventually. they mostly use it to write porn fiction :D
383706047cfec2ea…7cfec2ea…2023-02-08 18:32:07 <signpost> https://huggingface.co/EleutherAI/gpt-neox-20b https://www.eleuther.ai/
2ecbd5d4b552d27d…b552d27d…2023-02-10 19:52:39 <asciilifeform> the only expectation is that a station is presumed to be able to receive packets at the addr $peer last saw it transmit from.
fdc5610ec8ee79a3…40159bf9…2023-02-02 19:20:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 14:12:50 signpost: learned recently that can't renounce on behalf of one's child, lol
a2d4963ef2f31ca9…705f2e32…2022-12-18 21:41:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018888 << imho the traditional 'search-in-foo' erred heavily in other direction -- the proverbial 'auto with 4 sets of pedals', tho
02fcb1eb2ecbd5d4…2ecbd5d4…2023-02-10 19:56:04 <asciilifeform> if seeing selfchain conflicts in a direct peer, pretty good heuristic for '1 key on >1 box'. wat-do in this case is outside scope of spec.
b6e31a9365250cd6…55555074…2023-02-02 19:25:40 <billymg> signpost: re: non-pozzed security system market, i haven't done any of the exploration legwork yet, so still just a hunch that there would be demand for it
66872c36a2d4963e…0ee1e8e3…2022-12-18 21:42:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 15:14:47 phf[awt]: and elswhere “when i started using emacs there was an almost ideological aversion to DWIM in the community, instead of having say smart context "search" thing you'd have a dozen search-foo-in-bar combinations, and that was thought The Right Thing. emacs has long been dragged in the
f97d0cc3cc6efc74…cc6efc74…2023-02-08 18:32:47 <signpost> https://pornpen.ai/feed << this thing produces some bizarre shit
bf7b804b02fcb1eb…02fcb1eb…2023-02-10 19:56:57 <asciilifeform> ( it'll be visible in a half-decent gui pestron, and then wainot ask $peer 'wat'. maybe his key -- compromised. )
2d22afdbb6e31a93…c6ddc993…2023-02-02 19:19:13 <signpost> can get her dual. kid's responsible for her own conscience from there. :)
f373174066872c36…a2d4963e…2022-12-18 21:45:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018890 << the hypothetical 'vertical solution' from pov of most emacs aficionados 'wouldn't be emacs, it dun even have commodore assembly major mode!11' etc
45988f40f97d0cc3…77f900c3…2023-02-08 18:33:19 <phf> well, it's weird scienc dream of e-girlfriend. 'uuuge foking tits, and none of the head cockroaches
de78981dbf7b804b…bf7b804b…2023-02-10 19:59:06 <asciilifeform> the upside of stateless protocol here is that both genuine peer and impostor can speak. so, naturally, pgp him a new key and throw out the old.
0afae91d2d22afdb…65250cd6…2023-02-02 19:19:34 <asciilifeform> billymg: q is whether 'there's demand' at the price point where could actually make anyffin, rather than in abstract
76c97ee7f3731740…66872c36…2022-12-18 21:46:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 15:19:22 phf[awt]: also example of failure of bazaar, etc. single vertical vision could've forced architectural integrity on emacs solutions, but even that barely. something like "magit" is arguably superior to the builtin vc-mode, but comes with a dozen of idiosyncratic behaviors. novel interactio
ac66333c45988f40…45988f40…2023-02-08 18:34:22 <phf> i'm more interested in the training part. like how much of a corpus do you need for it to start producing interesting results? how does it behave with a small corpus? etc.
9fedf75276c97ee7…f3731740…2022-12-18 21:45:56 <asciilifeform> i.e. would have to jettison the ocean of liquishit elisps, which is what most users afaik are using it for to start with
67a1ab10ac66333c…ac66333c…2023-02-08 18:34:59 <phf> if you just "train it on your notes", are you going to get uncanny valley of own thoughts regurgitated, or it's just going to be jibberish, because not enough corpus
6922a4fa828f0eb1…2d22afdb…2023-02-02 19:20:22 <signpost> https://github.com/OpenIPC << found this thing, and bought some cameras that purport to be supported. haven't had a chance to attempt reflash yet.
f08c08ca9fedf752…9fedf752…2022-12-18 21:46:32 <asciilifeform> ( the folx from whose pov ok to throw all of these out -- are already using various 'clion' etc )
31e9d44067a1ab10…67a1ab10…2023-02-08 18:35:36 <phf> does thing ~only~ work if trained on gigabytes of textual data, and therefore requires extensive amount of 3rd world pajeet in it?
7d5e0d646922a4fa…0afae91d…2023-02-02 19:20:24 <asciilifeform> ( elementarily, there 'is demand' for damn near anyffin, if price is ~= lolmart's )
b2c86d38f08c08ca…f2f31ca9…2022-12-19 01:31:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018894 << sure, emacs as a development environment vs the "just wanna edit text" crowd. dwim doesn't necessarily translate into a sensible auto. instead it's the same 4 pedals underneath, but you can't put any one of them, without having an e DZYIJܬ{>wVF; i*9
4a026657b2c86d38…b2c86d38…2022-12-19 01:31:29 <phf> ffect on some state, and the only pedal exposed pushes one out of based on moon phases and speed you're going DZYIJܬ{>wVF; i*9
ffdf706cb2c86d38…76c97ee7…2022-12-19 01:32:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 16:42:59 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018888 << imho the traditional 'search-in-foo' erred heavily in other direction -- the proverbial 'auto with 4 sets of pedals', tho
fef7862af844b46b…f844b46b…2023-02-08 18:36:44 <phf> i have more questions, can you train it without it producing the reams of english 101 expositions. "this answer is correct, because i correctly answered the question that you have asked previously." etc
50adbb949fde251b…7d5e0d64…2023-02-02 19:20:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform quite disillusioned with chinesium 'linux cameras', they crash
30b38fe0ffdf706c…4a026657…2022-12-19 01:33:47 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018896 << not hypothetical, xemacs. main objection to xemacs from users "changed interface, so now i have to rewrite script", but made when there were like 5 scripts. now there's 5000 scripts, and a multiyear migration deprecation strategy fo .='(<U^nߨ?JG! J
2b082bf1fef7862a…fef7862a…2023-02-08 18:37:38 <phf> can you distill the information to some kind of schematic reductionist thing, where the "wires" are seen, or is it only ever manifest as extensive fluff because it's inherent to the way the information is generated
9fecadf930b38fe0…30b38fe0…2022-12-19 01:33:47 <phf> r "old style" and "new style" (new style being often worse take on what xemacs did 30 years ago) .='(<U^nߨ?JG! J
6bb1026a30b38fe0…ffdf706c…2022-12-19 01:34:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 16:46:27 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018890 << the hypothetical 'vertical solution' from pov of most emacs aficionados 'wouldn't be emacs, it dun even have commodore assembly major mode!11' etc
3f5870d82b082bf1…2b082bf1…2023-02-08 18:38:20 <phf> why is nobody asking or answering these questions. why is every single article is chatgpt generated "i asked the oracle and it told me correctly! the ai is open us! told me wrongly! the ai is bullshit"
2995e56ef5c45083…f5c45083…2023-02-02 19:21:32 <asciilifeform> ( and if anyone knows of 1 such where multi-yr uptimes, plox to post )
cd6f45fb2995e56e…e5bd99bd…2023-02-02 19:21:54 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022025 << see foreign earned income exclusion
f6dd9a48274649b8…274649b8…2022-12-19 01:35:07 <phf> emacs still depricates things, but it's always small petty "i'm going to rewrite all cases of foo-bar to bar-foo to be consisten!" but not "i'm going to rethink widget system"
efa93a78b4729a1d…3f5870d8…2023-02-08 18:41:58 <phf> and to the point of l part of llm, is the process even controllable? like wolfram suggested that chatgpt is fundamentally flawed unless you can shape output by something like alpha. that is currated certainty source.
f119d8dccd6f45fb…fdc5610e…2023-02-02 19:23:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 14:16:59 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: from asciilifeform's pov, tho, 90% of the point of getting outta usa is to get outta their tax
c7030303f6dd9a48…f6dd9a48…2022-12-19 02:21:20 <phf> “Outsiders are shocked when things fall apart. Insiders are amazed the duct-tape held this long”
52744869efa93a78…f97d0cc3…2023-02-08 18:42:54 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022698 << "and anyway, humbug!"
71d36f63f119d8dc…2995e56e…2023-02-02 19:22:40 <asciilifeform> awt: iirc the max exclusion is a pittance
15bc391452744869…efa93a78…2023-02-08 18:43:01 <phf> chatgpt troons are doing something to nerf e.g. "write a poem about god emperor trump being the best", wihch are easily subverted by prompt fuckery
48646b9a52744869…a2db73bf…2023-02-08 18:44:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 13:40:06 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: cuz it's an imponator.
30eda9ff39770ff8…39770ff8…2022-12-19 02:27:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018903 << asciilifeform vaguely aware of xemacs wars, but his sole exposure to it was in late '90s wundering wai rathead installs 2 emacses
3325e1b548646b9a…15bc3914…2023-02-08 18:43:32 <phf> so it's obvious that people who ostensibly designed the system have only a very limited ability to shape it's output/input behavior
353f390ec6c67adf…71d36f63…2023-02-02 19:24:08 <asciilifeform> given 'the real inflation'(tm), will be in not too long
d97e8edf30eda9ff…6bb1026a…2022-12-19 02:28:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 20:34:56 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018896 << not hypothetical, xemacs. main objection to xemacs from users "changed interface, so now i have to rewrite script", but made when there were like 5 scripts. now there's 5000 scripts, and a multiyear migration deprecation strategy
6a20d44f3325e1b5…b4729a1d…2023-02-08 18:44:51 <asciilifeform> reportedly, the 'nerf' is where most of their effort goes
caeefe5e353f390e…c6c67adf…2023-02-02 19:27:35 <awt> 30k here, 25k there, pretty soon you're talking big numbers.
2a3fc6e4d97e8edf…30eda9ff…2022-12-19 02:28:22 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform's brother, already emacs veteran, pointed him to 'tru' emacs, and that was it )
2e3a3d446a20d44f…3325e1b5…2023-02-08 18:44:59 <phf> which makes one wonder to what extent the thing can be "analyzed from parts". my current impression is that you either get an amorphous vector space of meaning that collapses into anything at all, OR null
33c06a0bcaeefe5e…9fde251b…2023-02-02 19:33:43 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022039 << will let ya know. no crashes out of this guy yet, but haven't paid close attention.
a01d4d6d2a3fc6e4…c7030303…2022-12-19 02:29:07 <phf> i didn't know anything about it at the time, but in restrospect the situation was exactly "a handful of genera veterans trying to make emacs into an architecturally sound foundation for a proper IDE"
3edea9132e3a3d44…2e3a3d44…2023-02-08 18:45:48 <phf> because the nerf is obviously very crude, slightly better than keyword filter kind of stuff
ce00c43b33c06a0b…f119d8dc…2023-02-02 19:34:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 14:22:00 asciilifeform[5]: signpost: asciilifeform quite disillusioned with chinesium 'linux cameras', they crash
58a18b68a01d4d6d…a01d4d6d…2022-12-19 02:30:03 <phf> and of course the point of contention is that they were trying to turn it into a commercial product in the process, as a kind of proto-open-source hybrid
2725a5e43edea913…52744869…2023-02-08 18:46:06 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022692 << good experiment to run. there are gigabytes of non-pajeet to be had
80cfe26bce00c43b…33c06a0b…2023-02-02 19:34:29 <signpost> ideally would like to put an open firmware on one and have the thing take commands over pest (move, zoom, etc) and fart out video feed probably over fountain code. something like that.
2aef1283ce00c43b…353f390e…2023-02-02 19:54:17 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform was thinking of some non-obv. applications (e.g. camera pointed at sumthing nonseekrit, or at least sumthing you wouldn't mind yer l1 seeing, as a pill against 'gestapo steals errything, confiscates camera hdd' etc
2d7605022725a5e4…48646b9a…2023-02-08 18:47:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 13:36:58 phf[awt|deedbot]: does thing ~only~ work if trained on gigabytes of textual data, and therefore requires extensive amount of 3rd world pajeet in it?
c63ed65d0e719e95…0e719e95…2022-12-19 02:31:30 <phf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk "lucid energize demo vhs 1993"
071a78812d760502…3edea913…2023-02-08 18:46:54 <phf> signpost, didn't one of ours do an archive of gutenberg txt and the whole thing is something like 500mb?
2534ee46d8c673bd…d8c673bd…2023-02-02 19:55:13 <asciilifeform> ( in context of auto-p2pwarez, that is )
af21aecfc63ed65d…c63ed65d…2022-12-19 02:32:15 <phf> i'm probably going to fuck it up, but energize was the commercial IDE offering on top of lucid emacs, which was to become xemacs after lucid disolved
480274a32534ee46…ce00c43b…2023-02-02 19:56:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:58:31 asciilifeform[4]: hypothetically, if asciilifeform is in yer l1, you end up with a complete .../you/asciilifeform/*
f3186a8df6d55864…54abb05f…2023-02-08 18:48:11 <asciilifeform> dun recall how much it weighed unzipped, but possible that only coupla GB, summed, of 'non-pajeet', even exist...
533ae684480274a3…80cfe26b…2023-02-02 21:03:34 <signpost> yep I'd participate in that. no problem with l1 being able to see me mowing the lawn, and thereby see if the pigs come blazing in without a warrant, etc.
9dd1beaab66a3358…b66a3358…2022-12-19 03:04:43 signpost has been using that for years, love the thing.
8c05d0e8f3186a8d…f3186a8d…2023-02-08 18:49:24 <asciilifeform> (and with good % of it mixed, like uranium in ocean, with pajeet)
f21a3e1b533ae684…2534ee46…2023-02-02 21:59:02 <asciilifeform> idea was moar of a 'l1-powered distributed backup disk' than 'they watch' but yes
a3126af29dd1beaa…2a3fc6e4…2022-12-19 03:09:06 <asciilifeform> phf: interesting film. ( asciilifeform also recalled re naggum barfing at xemacs, tho not 'because payware')
293a45acad845afe…ad845afe…2023-02-08 18:50:13 <signpost> I'll feed their existing pajeet-trained thing books from prior to 1900, say, for a while, and see what happens.
d926416bf0913af4…f21a3e1b…2023-02-02 22:00:04 <asciilifeform> prolly not so interesting w/out the shortwave replacement for reichnet, tho
1781986c06e88495…9dd1beaa…2022-12-19 03:10:24 <signpost> right, I'm wondering what clion has that UE's c++ support doesn't
4279ee0a293a45ac…8c05d0e8…2023-02-08 18:50:34 <asciilifeform> doesn't mean it aint worth a try feeding gutenberg, logs, etc. to a bot
cc89a4cad926416b…d926416b…2023-02-02 22:00:39 <asciilifeform> (atm 1st thing 'the pigs' do in an 'interesting' case is to cut yer net pipe)
629a3a6d1781986c…1781986c…2022-12-19 03:10:47 <signpost> at least in the python case, pycharm's pretty much what you get with UE plus python plugin
2d2ac3cd4279ee0a…4279ee0a…2023-02-08 18:50:49 asciilifeform tried the former with old-fashioned shannonizers at one pt
4d8e67e7cc89a4ca…0d2cffc4…2023-02-02 22:09:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-01#1021937 << i managed to get same result with same seeds from Xorshift1024.random_raw() and own common lisp implementation
54f98fa6629a3a6d…629a3a6d…2022-12-19 03:12:06 <signpost> searching online for comparison of these kinds of tools is so loathsome, end up with a bunch of redditards/stackoverflows chirping unsubstantially
7def226f2d2ac3cd…2d2ac3cd…2023-02-08 18:53:38 <asciilifeform> imho there's nuffin wrong with playing with chatbots, so long as one has realistic expectations, and realizes that the current crop is built 'to impress' with coherent text output, rather than 'cognition' (however else defined)
90aeb6864d8e67e7…480274a3…2023-02-02 22:11:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-01 23:56:16 phf[deedbot]: yeah, i got the seeds out of initialized Xorshift1024, and at this point i should be getting same number out of random_raw() as my lisp version, but no such luck
82f662e254f98fa6…a3126af2…2022-12-19 03:12:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: hence wai gold standard is to grab the thing for yerself and try
187b6e987def226f…7def226f…2023-02-08 18:54:06 <asciilifeform> folx are readily tricked with 'clean-looking text' given as in humans it correlates with 'someone is home in the crankcase'
230b6b6090aeb686…4d8e67e7…2023-02-02 22:10:53 <phf> this was not a complete waste of time, because involved porting c xorshift1024 to lisp and have it work correctly
d4610a5d82f662e2…06e88495…2022-12-19 03:12:42 <phf> signpost, oh they must've backported it. when i originally installed clion (that must've been some time before vtools) there was no c++ support in intellij and they were talking that they will eventually port the code out into an installable plugin. they must've done it
3fac5dbe187b6e98…187b6e98…2023-02-08 18:54:34 <asciilifeform> ( and in most cases 'impress' takes very little. recall weizenbaum's story re eliza & his secretary )
13603ffd187b6e98…293a45ac…2023-02-08 18:54:46 <signpost> something even a few hairs better than full text search over a selectable corpus would be useful.
c1bfc4ced4610a5d…54f98fa6…2022-12-19 03:13:08 <signpost> asciilifeform: my understanding was that IDEA "ultimate edition" was the superset of the lang-specific IDEs
c7e2ba3713603ffd…3fac5dbe…2023-02-08 18:57:00 asciilifeform historically suffered many moar headaches with 'smart' tools, e.g. non-greplike search, than with 'dumb' fwiw
1b1d293a02563b9a…02563b9a…2023-02-02 22:12:15 <signpost> curious to see if your impl trounces mine in performance (which I hope!)
a1c00e74c1bfc4ce…c1bfc4ce…2022-12-19 03:13:24 <signpost> but I think my subscription lets me have clion et al anyway, so yeah, might as well go look
e70931fbc7e2ba37…c7e2ba37…2023-02-08 18:57:53 <asciilifeform> see also kreinin's 'computers you can't program' piece re subj
582b14051b1d293a…1b1d293a…2023-02-02 22:12:51 <signpost> should be very parallel friendly without python's limitations.
5d8b4d04a1c00e74…d4610a5d…2022-12-19 03:15:09 <phf> and just to further clarifty when pycharm originally came out there was no support for python in intellij. thing ran as its own standalone ide for some time, until they added "python" plugin
93f69715e70931fb…071a7881…2023-02-08 18:59:02 <phf> of course meanwhile signpost will make his hundreds of thousands with chatgpt assist, retire in tx as a proper upper middle class, little trinquets running all over, etc.
9df3993c582b1405…230b6b60…2023-02-02 22:13:32 <phf> which brought up an issue i've encountered before and never had a satisfying solution: there's no way to restrict lisp bit operations to produce direct rewrite of c code, without relying on non-portable hacks
e4c62e4a9df3993c…9df3993c…2023-02-02 22:16:41 <phf> a non-portable solution (in sbcl/cmucl) is to crank up speed 3 safety 0, type annotate everything and then lisp will generate equivalent code that truncates values to specified types
bbde367cffc5faf7…82f662e2…2022-12-19 03:23:46 <asciilifeform> 'Just noticed this issue is 17 years old! Hope my children will enjoy this but i'll probably retire before this is fixed.' << lol
d5b3a8d49948e7d6…9948e7d6…2023-02-08 18:59:55 <asciilifeform> (if microshit doesn't simply robotize his co's service using his own src, lol)
22d4625ae4c62e4a…e4c62e4a…2023-02-02 22:18:41 <phf> e.g. xorsfhit1024 becomes http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UZma, and it still generates garbage on that last multiply (it bignums and then truncates, i can't figure out how to make it use a int64bit version of *)
a5cea5e3bbde367c…ffc5faf7…2022-12-19 03:55:44 <signpost> yeah, looks like quite a lot more c/c++ specific stuff in clion.
eada6927d5b3a8d4…93f69715…2023-02-08 19:04:05 <phf> in totally unrelated, i wired the gui to khan packet sorter, first thing it did is stuff accidentally unconnected recent message in the beginning of the log..
5010b30022d4625a…22d4625a…2023-02-02 22:22:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022064 << i'm kind of hoping it'll outperform python single threaded, but seeing as how you use numpy all over the place maybe that won't be the case…
32ec6e12a5cea5e3…a5cea5e3…2022-12-19 03:56:01 <signpost> makefile/cmake support in run configurations for example
b7833aec5010b300…90aeb686…2023-02-02 22:23:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-02 17:13:50 signpost[deedbot]: curious to see if your impl trounces mine in performance (which I hope!)
3c1495453bbb3f22…eada6927…2023-02-08 19:20:26 <phf> asciilifeform, packets that come in get placed in a netchain/selfchain linked graph, which is then khan sorted, and the sort is compared against previous sort using myers. it's all not very optimal, but good enough for now
ee1fd6dcb7833aec…8dd635c0…2023-02-03 09:48:59 <cgra> signpost, in ocpy Decoder.solve(), wouldn't "destination_block_buffer ^= block.buffer" be better as "destination_block_buffer[:] = block.buffer" ?
13aef6753c149545…3c149545…2023-02-08 19:20:53 <phf> myers gives you an update script, so you can go replace parts of output without full redraw
d8156715ee1fd6dc…ee1fd6dc…2023-02-03 09:52:00 <cgra> first operand in a series of xor ops not needed to xor with initial zero
3bbe661b13aef675…13aef675…2023-02-08 19:21:27 <phf> i mean it's an overkill for the way the packets behave, but theoretically at least accomodates for any arbitrary injections of missing packet subgraphs
d04ee7f2d8156715…d8156715…2023-02-03 13:00:14 <cgra> signpost, did you ever consider if aux blocks could be generated on-the-fly, instead of pre-generated set? (i thought this option was mentioned in the paper(s), but can't find it anymore, or i was just imagining it)
d2cd98a13bbe661b…3bbe661b…2023-02-08 19:22:08 <phf> so i finally brought it up, and the immediate result is that khan sort doesn't do the right thing
0153c95bd04ee7f2…d04ee7f2…2023-02-03 13:07:36 <cgra> appears to me you cannot get exact same aux block probability distribution if you want to map from an aux block to 0..n message blocks, instead of mapping each message block to q aux blocks, but perhaps don't need exact same distribution?
bceaf638d2cd98a1…d2cd98a1…2023-02-08 19:22:58 <phf> it needs to smh incorporate timestamps in order resolution. that is when everything else is equal, it should place packets with higher timestamps closer to the end of the list, but i don't quite know how to do that yte
5b579da40153c95b…582b1405…2023-02-03 13:08:57 <signpost> will need moar coffee to answer this question, but you're not supposed to use the same prng for aux blocks and check blocks, so when you generate aux blocks shouldn't affect that, I'd think.
113f4e29bceaf638…bceaf638…2023-02-08 19:39:13 <phf> and to tie the two threads together, i've noticed past few days (since i came back to this problem), every time i search top results are filled with total crap articles
3e5759d45b579da4…5b579da4…2023-02-03 13:09:09 <signpost> check blocks all get seeded with their block ID
7c9034f3113f4e29…113f4e29…2023-02-08 19:39:57 <phf> from sites like programmersought.com or geeksforgeeks.org. i've not seen those before, and i'm pretty sure that's the first case of chatgpt generated junk
defb58443e5759d4…3e5759d4…2023-02-03 13:09:25 <signpost> *production of check-block edges gets seeded with ^
a125d2177c9034f3…828f0eb1…2023-02-08 20:21:10 <billymg> phf: i've noticed that as well, for at least the last few months, perhaps closer to a year for certain domains, and becoming more and more common
b136522ddefb5844…defb5844…2023-02-03 13:09:54 <signpost> (also thanks for reading the thing! glad my thick skull isn't the only one aimed at it!)
c6fd8edca125d217…a125d217…2023-02-08 20:22:05 <billymg> all with the same style table of contents at the top of the page
fe41e5a3ffa70e2e…44c9bdcf…2022-12-19 04:44:25 <phf> hmm, well i can sort of peer with multiple stations now. now to go over backlog and find all the pgpgrams
074fc1c6eb8d32ee…0153c95b…2023-02-03 13:43:19 <cgra> signpost, yeah i didn't mean to mix aux and check block prng's, but was pondering whether by slightly(?) changing the aux rng usage could you avoid mandatory aux pre-gen and generate aux blocks (still deterministically) as they are required
2d12ef8c8d4a6a84…7c9034f3…2023-02-08 20:22:01 <phf> i'm also searching for some very computer science 101 kind of term combinations, so the results are particularly abysmal
54a926a5074fc1c6…eb8d32ee…2023-02-03 13:45:00 <signpost> aux blocks are a lot fatter than check blocks, and there's only say 3% of them compared to check blocks. I'd think doing lazy aux block generation would introduce chug in encoding each time one's hit as a check block edge
60407c7b2d12ef8c…3bbb3f22…2023-02-08 20:38:14 <asciilifeform> phf: noticed over9000 of these when looking for various cppisms
c11ef68754a926a5…54a926a5…2023-02-03 13:45:21 <signpost> that said there's no reason not to do the experiment.
5724412960407c7b…60407c7b…2023-02-08 20:38:44 asciilifeform thought they were simply the usual stackoverflow rips, but not dug in deeply
1a0bfab8c11ef687…c11ef687…2023-02-03 13:46:03 <signpost> you're supposed to be able to run the second-phase of encoding indefinitely, while first-phase that produces the aux blocks is finite and small-ish, so I just ran it up front.
decc18b540fc2854…0c654c89…2022-12-19 06:14:16 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018952 << i also have no idea :>
143ad10f57244129…2d12ef8c…2023-02-08 20:42:42 <phf> woop, replacing a stack with a priority queue in a khan sort fixes problem
f5a817bd1a0bfab8…1a0bfab8…2023-02-03 13:46:46 <signpost> one thing you don't necessarily want to leak to an outside adversary is which blocks rely upon aux blocks, because that'd give targeting info to the adversary. and if all aux-block-yielding check blocks are nuked, you're not getting the payload on the other side
75ee7a04997cd836…bbde367c…2022-12-19 06:11:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018950 << lolwat
5b1e2ffcdecc18b5…039c39f3…2022-12-19 06:15:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 01:13:10 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018950 << lolwat
807a6632f5a817bd…f5a817bd…2023-02-03 13:47:22 <signpost> encoding's guarantees rely upon the enemy not being able to discern which blocks to zap
039c39f375ee7a04…d97e8edf…2022-12-19 06:13:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 01:11:55 deedbot[awt]: !!help
510ba37f5b1e2ffc…5b1e2ffc…2022-12-19 06:19:54 <phf> unfortunately i also hosed my instance, si somebody else will have to dig it out from their database
36e4bbaf807a6632…074fc1c6…2023-02-03 13:47:56 <cgra> signpost, don't pre-genned aux blocks already give such info? because don't need any genning
8433c41336e4bbaf…807a6632…2023-02-03 13:49:05 <signpost> I don't think so, because to the check block pass they're just more message blocks
4fb62aad8433c413…8433c413…2023-02-03 13:49:31 <signpost> there's not more or less work in the check-block phase because something was an aux block vs message block. it's just another edge that gets xor'd into check block payload
1f7e30b4caf3bd32…4fb62aad…2023-02-03 13:50:18 <signpost> vs if every time a check block edge ended up pointing at an aux block we then generated the aux block (which has many more edges than most check blocks) there'd be discernible choog
1e9c3fd0cb867cbf…cb867cbf…2023-02-03 13:56:28 <cgra> could you say that on-the-fly aux-blocks only giving operator a ~choice~ whether to pre-gen/cache or not, makes the timing leak a minor issue?
d66fc1051e9c3fd0…1e9c3fd0…2023-02-03 14:01:40 <cgra> signpost, np re reading ocpy, and double the ty for creating it!
25e6aae6d66fc105…1f7e30b4…2023-02-03 14:05:19 <signpost> as I think about it, the timing leak is both an issue there and in one other case. in the case we're discussing, I'd rather not introduce configurability that persuades folks to do something which makes it easier for an attacker to undermine the reason for the encoding in the first place.
59ad755325e6aae6…25e6aae6…2023-02-03 14:05:30 <signpost> and it occurs to me that this timing issue applies to all block generation.
56f7e0cf59ad7553…59ad7553…2023-02-03 14:06:22 <signpost> if the sender *ever* exposes their rate of block generation by letting blocks go out faster than they can be generated, an attacker can infer by timing the degree of all check blocks.
9fdc138756f7e0cf…56f7e0cf…2023-02-03 14:06:36 <signpost> at which point it's as easy as zapping degree-one check blocks, which ensure nothing ever gets solved.
5f72e4139fdc1387…9fdc1387…2023-02-03 14:07:12 <signpost> degree-1 blocks having one edge, and being identical to the underlying message or aux block.
c0d537bc5f72e413…d66fc105…2023-02-03 14:07:21 <cgra> signpost, i suppose on-the-fly auxes beneficial also to pre-gen by not requiring to process all aux blocks in one unit
72454a0ac0d537bc…5f72e413…2023-02-03 14:07:35 <signpost> solving a degree-n block is impossible when total solved blocks is not at least the number of that block's degree, right?
eab9444572454a0a…72454a0a…2023-02-03 14:08:22 <signpost> so if you don't get any degree-1 blocks... "we ain't found shit!"
c97f0e15eab94445…eab94445…2023-02-03 14:08:45 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3iFJpGJiug
7aadde44c97f0e15…c0d537bc…2023-02-03 14:08:50 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022094 << makes sense
955dcb3c7aadde44…b7833aec…2023-02-03 14:10:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 09:06:37 signpost: as I think about it, the timing leak is both an issue there and in one other case. in the case we're discussing, I'd rather not introduce configurability that persuades folks to do something which makes it easier for an attacker to undermine the reason for the encoding in the first p
5cad1388955dcb3c…7aadde44…2023-02-03 14:12:52 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-03#1022100 << is that off-by-one? otherwise agreed
1755bc565cad1388…955dcb3c…2023-02-03 14:14:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 09:08:48 signpost: solving a degree-n block is impossible when total solved blocks is not at least the number of that block's degree, right?
3be8f194d2476eb4…d2476eb4…2023-02-03 14:13:45 <signpost> at least degree-minus-one blocks have to be solved for it to be possible (but not guaranteed) that a check block can be solved
ecf929c01904936b…1904936b…2023-02-03 14:22:32 <signpost> hm. I'm having a hard time seeing how this can be solved without reducing send rate to the worst encoding case, throwing random delays or random dummy blocks in, etc.
f634d64a0499ad8e…0499ad8e…2023-02-03 14:23:57 <signpost> via radio, would be harder to zap particular blocks, but via internet, appears not.
e3412f8d00000000275e2ec6…2022-07-10 02:45:34 <phf> hmm, maybe i should start responding to getdata messages…
2a819a9100000000e3412f8d…2022-07-10 02:47:38 <phf> that message http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-09#1009131 never got to me…
4bdc6399000000002a819a91…2022-07-10 02:50:18 <phf> and right after i said that i got two copies of that message. so blatta doesn't filter dupes?
0f597b6b4bdc6399…28799af0…2022-07-10 02:57:45 <awt> phf: every time you see a message coming through asciilifeform's station, he's likely filtered out 11 dupes of it.
c97cb48dc6cf3106…0f597b6b…2022-07-10 03:00:23 <awt> That said, obviously something weird going on in this case.
c8336eae000000004bdc6399…2022-07-10 03:05:46 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008937 well, i'm only connected to you, and don't dedup and i got two copies of http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008936
06b4d5a4c8336eae…f4883c54…2022-07-10 03:05:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 22:57:51 awt[billymg|signpost]: phf: every time you see a message coming through asciilifeform's station, he's likely filtered out 11 dupes of it.
4676985f06b4d5a4…06b4d5a4…2022-07-10 03:05:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 22:52:52 crtdaydreams[billymg]: oh good god what is happening
9e134f77a85d511b…dc6ee61e…2022-07-10 03:11:21 <awt> phf: are you getting multiple copies of the pong response?
1b61e882f4768810…1c183bfe…2022-07-10 03:08:04 <awt> In that case, "chad" or crtdaydreams is only connected to asciilifeform, as are you.
ed367e691b61e882…1b61e882…2022-07-10 03:08:23 <awt> Doesn't explain anything, just trying to figure out what might be happening.
20684f44ed367e69…ed367e69…2022-07-10 03:09:37 <awt> Could very well be a bug in the re-broadcasting code that isn't visible to other blatta users that dedup incoming messages.
4c1ff20c00000000b8418f10…2022-07-10 03:12:24 <phf> but i just got two copies of http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008944
b10a9ef24c1ff20c…4676985f…2022-07-10 03:12:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 23:05:54 bitbot: Logged on 2022-07-09 22:52:52 crtdaydreams[billymg]: oh good god what is happening
71bc75bbd8acce78…9e134f77…2022-07-10 03:14:57 <awt> phf here are my logs, ftr: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/logs/current
4e639f3000000000d8acce78…2022-07-10 03:18:11 <phf> well you can def see dupes in there http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mDyV
e9e87b16a46ac5ac…a46ac5ac…2022-07-10 03:28:52 <awt> Interesting to note that the bounce counts are different
523d2357000000004e639f30…2022-07-10 03:29:55 <phf> possibly gets sent elsewhere, eventually comes back but doesn't get deduped?
7e7f6fc5523d2357…ffdb0a3f…2022-07-10 03:30:49 <awt> right but the hashes (d6862d44...) appear to be the same
ede4d20800000000317be414…2022-07-10 03:59:32 <phf> awt: well if you look the whole nonce (the first 16 bytes) is different
0954fbf600000000ede4d208…2022-07-10 04:00:07 <phf> awt: but that's the red packet from the wire, which i'm not otherwise modifying so it definitely came in that way.
b058f3c5000000000954fbf6…2022-07-10 04:00:37 <phf> i also find it odd, that the nonce is all numbers in the 50-60 range :o
7d9ba33eb058f3c5…58727526…2022-07-10 04:03:30 <awt> ok so you're getting the same message with two different nonces?
18b3690300000000b058f3c5…2022-07-10 04:04:48 <phf> so i'm looking at all the packets in my backlog, and all (except for my own) have busted nonce
bd1831820000000018b36903…2022-07-10 04:05:25 <phf> here's a random selection of nonces http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8RhY
6ae4153b00000000bd183182…2022-07-10 04:09:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-10#1008980 << yes
b0313e326ae4153b…77f3511e…2022-07-10 04:09:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-10 00:03:37 awt[billymg]: ok so you're getting the same message with two different nonces?
43d38e07093671a9…093671a9…2022-07-10 04:11:34 <signpost> looks like the broadcast handler uses pack, which always generates a new nonce.
d0e31da4000000006ae4153b…2022-07-10 04:12:55 <phf> fwiw different nonce shouldn't result in different message hash256
8bb996f700000000d0e31da4…2022-07-10 04:13:44 <phf> not sure if nonce is supposed to change during rebroadcast, but that's probably not a bad thing?
2aaa65a48bb996f7…43d38e07…2022-07-10 04:14:58 <signpost> nonce being an ascii version of digits is a b00g though eh?
3b59ad89000000008bb996f7…2022-07-10 04:16:05 <phf> yah,we discovered a bug while investigating another bug:x
a23442c43b59ad89…b24ba73d…2022-07-10 04:21:02 <signpost-dev> naively changed message.py#300 to a urandom call like the next func uses.
9944230d96615ce1…2aaa65a4…2022-07-10 04:23:22 <signpost> probably can just snip that guy and pull the urandom call into pack
b2e622889944230d…9944230d…2022-07-10 04:26:13 <signpost> I'd be inclined to do same to gen_rubbish_body since nobody else calls that either.
46c51111b2e62288…96615ce1…2022-07-10 04:30:09 <awt> signpost: makes since since the urandom call is pretty straigt forward
a690059146c51111…46c51111…2022-07-10 04:30:40 <awt> past my bedtime. please don't find any more bugs until tomorrow.
0f366978837ab36d…44767ffd…2022-07-10 04:33:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-10#1009175 << erry ciphration, whenever it takes place, gets a fresh nonce. (oghta have said this in spec, but thought was obv)
f8d491f40f366978…0f366978…2022-07-10 04:33:56 asciilifeform observes that local station bites it on erry single echo from dulapbot
3f099bbcf8d491f4…f8d491f4…2022-07-10 04:34:49 asciilifeform observes also that billymg's log aint seeing dulapbot's echos
66647e16000000003b59ad89…2022-07-10 04:36:58 <phf> asciilifeform: i'm connected to awt, and i didn't get dulapbot response to your link
bd2e5bfe66647e16…bdfda78f…2022-07-10 04:37:23 <asciilifeform> phf: likely because asciilifeform's station bit it immediately, and replays dun quite work
e922ec05bd2e5bfe…bd2e5bfe…2022-07-10 04:37:35 <asciilifeform> ( dulapbot atm connected solely via asciilifeform's station )
076f7e6640e4b30a…c6cf3106…2022-07-10 11:15:23 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008968 << Weird, you're in my peer list, etc. Didja try to DM?
b08b8e05076f7e66…b0313e32…2022-07-10 11:15:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-09 23:34:24 crtdaydreams[signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-09#1008938 << ty shinohai, it appears we're not peered correctly yet?
898a56ae0000000040e4b30a…2022-07-11 00:18:59 <phf> so just to clarify, if i lose the connection, then eventually reconnect, there's no way for me to immediately know "what i've missed", in fact i have to slowly rebuild chain as respective parties speak?
461c72ab00000000898a56ae…2022-07-11 00:36:10 <phf> i assume relevant conversation re prod is in the logs, but i can't figure from the spec, how it supposed to work. does connecting station issue prod? halp
6dd037bb461c72ab…89fad957…2022-07-11 00:36:56 <awt> phf: haven't reviewed but I thought PROD was to be spammed to all peers periodically.
3ea16e406dd037bb…6dd037bb…2022-07-11 00:37:25 <awt> there was even discussion of replacing IGNORE with PROD
a3d3251900000000461c72ab…2022-07-11 00:54:38 <phf> i guess question to asciilifeform, why not let client query for data? it seems like an intentional thing, that the data comes at the counterparty's whim, i'm curious what the reasoning behind this is
27f6961f00000000a3d32519…2022-07-11 00:55:26 <phf> e.g. getdatasince hash256 ->gives you everything that came in since hash
2c3d24c627f6961f…3ea16e40…2022-07-11 00:55:54 <awt> Testing 9974. Gonna let it run a while before linking, although it's up if anyone wants to try.
688a8b040000000027f6961f…2022-07-11 03:28:36 <phf> question is obv in the context of previous, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-10#1009259
06a4b8b0688a8b04…2c3d24c6…2022-07-11 03:28:40 <awt> asciilifeform: maybe send me a key for dulapbot and we can see if it crashes my station as well.
e429f2f40000000004635606…2022-07-11 15:15:47 <phf> broadcast OR prod to figure out what's missing. question is, why, when a mobile node comes back, not allow it to ask for packets forward? i'm not saying that this needs to be done, but more like what's the justification for doing a poll in this case, instead of pull?
6cfd00e3fa2c1992…fa2c1992…2022-07-11 15:20:14 <PeterL> IIUC, the response to a prod message will include the latest nethash, so once you get that you just use getdata until you work back to your lastest message
0463560600000000688a8b04…2022-07-11 15:15:47 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-10#1009277 << let me belaborate on this point for a second. an unreliable or otherwise mobile node might go down for arbitrary periods of time. when it comes back, afaiu right now the only form of communication it can do is ignore packet, to establish proper AT, and then wait for
79e0ee1d00000000e429f2f4…2022-07-11 15:21:43 <phf> ah see i misunderstand prod. i thought that it's periodically sent by the counterparty, and it contains latest hash, which you then can check against your packets, and do a request. so in other words you connect and wait for a periodic prod to come in, rather than initiate prod.
0023f7a8ab5e6065…6cfd00e3…2022-07-11 15:23:03 <PeterL> prod and getdata will each generate a single line of response, if you just say 'give me everything after ##' then you could get a response of unlimited size
b2ddd4e700000000ab5e6065…2022-07-11 15:25:05 <phf> or you could put an N on a request, and at get most N packets. as of right now you're at parity, 5mb of data requires 5mb of request
c5cbfbca00000000b2ddd4e7…2022-07-11 15:29:05 <phf> asciilifeform: at this point of practical pestronics you have to be pretty careful about what you respond to :> e.g. your "PeterL: correct" confirms two different messages on bitdash and on nosuchlabs
6bbbd1df00000000c5cbfbca…2022-07-11 15:31:09 <phf> pestronic proof of work, you want 5mb of data! you send 5mb of request!
7fa31cbb6bbbd1df…b4636da5…2022-07-11 16:01:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009136 << this lul existed in fleanode era fwiw. but good point
d55056657fa31cbb…b08b8e05…2022-07-11 16:01:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 11:29:15 phf[billymg]: asciilifeform: at this point of practical pestronics you have to be pretty careful about what you respond to :> e.g. your "PeterL: correct" confirms two different messages on bitdash and on nosuchlabs
1c792404d5505665…7fa31cbb…2022-07-11 16:14:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009135 << asciilifeform dun like 'ddos amplifiers' (even given that we have message expirations and deduplication), imho oughta know exact mass of what yer asking for in advance
9aaf0b3b1c792404…d5505665…2022-07-11 16:14:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 11:25:14 phf[billymg]: or you could put an N on a request, and at get most N packets. as of right now you're at parity, 5mb of data requires 5mb of request
a3e4a255000000006bbbd1df…2022-07-11 16:22:48 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009140 << why wouldn't you know exact mass in my example? you ask for n packets you get n packets. or you mean just in general that trading 1 packet for n packets is that?
c4ba0ce3a3e4a255…9aaf0b3b…2022-07-11 16:22:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 12:14:53 asciilifeform[billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009135 << asciilifeform dun like 'ddos amplifiers' (even given that we have message expirations and deduplication), imho oughta know exact mass of what yer asking for in advance
89eb3aaead465761…ad465761…2022-07-11 16:24:47 <asciilifeform> poses a problem if replayed ( and yes, theoretically deduplication prevents, but in practice implementing the spec has not been trivial for the folx attempting... arguably asciilifeform's sin, for failing to make it trivial to implement )
0abc2b4a89eb3aae…89eb3aae…2022-07-11 16:28:21 <asciilifeform> the other thing, phf : the logic whereby getdata responses bypass the timestamp expiration filter requires knowing the hash of expected msg ~in advance~
7503550904a1bf3a…04a1bf3a…2022-07-11 16:30:31 asciilifeform recognizes that the spec loox to readers like a chaotic spew, but in fact actually did attempt to think it through as a logical whole
2cf54920426ce5dd…426ce5dd…2022-07-11 16:32:54 <signpost> for some reason still not exchanging packets with ya directly.
7de25a522cf54920…380ec4e1…2022-07-11 16:33:48 <asciilifeform> hm asciilifeform's at entry for signpost is stamped 6 jul
44fbae309b35e2da…d1a3f15c…2022-07-11 16:35:48 <asciilifeform> odd that it didn't update automagically
99f6d4f444fbae30…9b35e2da…2022-07-11 16:36:18 <signpost> I apparently had an old entry for you in my own AT.
3db6bb9699f6d4f4…44fbae30…2022-07-11 16:36:45 asciilifeform spent weekend on moar seeming interminable meat plumbing
cb522ad500000000a3e4a255…2022-07-11 16:37:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-11#1009150 << there was no implication of that, but you know just because thought through doesn't mean thought through well. in this particular case the question was philosophical, because clearly that decision was intentional
be4a3a67cb522ad5…c4ba0ce3…2022-07-11 16:37:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 12:30:38 asciilifeform[billymg]: recognizes that the spec loox to readers like a chaotic spew, but in fact actually did attempt to think it through as a logical whole
ce4b0497be4a3a67…88ae882b…2022-07-11 16:37:58 <asciilifeform> phf: encouraged to point out seemingly nonsensical moving parts tho, there's no guarantee that the thing is in fact properly reduced
54af5774ce4b0497…ce4b0497…2022-07-11 16:38:30 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform not had , unfortunately, much time to return to the chalkboard & refine
fef4eafa6acbd8fd…6acbd8fd…2022-07-11 16:40:18 <whaack> my chat just has a different order than bitdash.io
d4b3a37600000000cb522ad5…2022-07-11 16:40:51 <phf> i'm connected at different times through asciilifeform or awt, because i can't multichat yet :>
be3d8cf41af760d5…b6a8de33…2022-07-11 16:41:22 <asciilifeform> a, phf still shooting single-action via slime eh
ae5e4deb000000001af760d5…2022-07-11 16:42:38 <phf> at this point the slime part i have least objection to :D once (br"... became muscle memory…
780d8d1aae5e4deb…076078ca…2022-07-11 16:42:52 <awt> phf is vietcong, sniping the pest patrol one by one
4a39d9a9ea9891e4…7e4cec1e…2022-07-11 16:46:25 <signpost> solves asciilifeform's multi-line paste gripe, so already ahead of weechat.
8a76fe66ea2b9c45…4a39d9a9…2022-07-11 17:01:14 <signpost> hey billymg, the links in your log that point to ossasepia for trilema logs no longer work.
175c61978a76fe66…8a76fe66…2022-07-11 17:01:42 signpost looks forward to linking messages by message hash.
fc944334175c6197…c5b14039…2022-07-11 17:48:41 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-10#1009088 << added
8566e6e5fc944334…be4a3a67…2022-07-11 17:45:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-10 23:42:22 crtdaydreams[signpost]: and billymg; http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6gfd peering info
e22e1b7b8566e6e5…fc944334…2022-07-11 17:49:56 <billymg> signpost: do you mean log links that start in logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema?
5782c49ae22e1b7b…e22e1b7b…2022-07-11 17:56:06 <billymg> if that's what you meant i wasn't able to do "ilog tunneling" with ossabot links because her logger at one point got out of sync with dulapbot
cb96b606b26f795a…175c6197…2022-07-11 17:53:45 <signpost> yeah, I clicked one that went nowhere on her site.
57ed9a1dcb96b606…b26f795a…2022-07-11 17:57:04 billymg needs to disable this feature for bitbot/dulapbot when in #pest, but the way it's currently implemented is by bot, not chan
e8f3821257ed9a1d…093bf768…2022-07-11 17:54:14 <signpost> solves itself when folks quote lines by message hash in the future.
6d9614d0e8f38212…e8f38212…2022-07-11 17:55:01 <signpost> hey awt, what do you have in your AT for billymg?
9bce5b4c6d9614d0…ea2b9c45…2022-07-11 17:55:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: indeed does, but q was re historical logs. afaik there aint any clean solution (other than asciilifeform's 'solution', where declared own log 'canonical' and invited folx to send in whatever's missing)
0c7225ff9bce5b4c…57ed9a1d…2022-07-11 17:59:19 <billymg> signpost: yeah i brought that up recently also, and then went to look for the previous thread (because i remembered it being discussed before)
0270a4bc0c7225ff…8566e6e5…2022-07-11 17:56:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 16:33:35 billymg: asciilifeform: regarding syncing of line indices between logotrons, what if we added a field containing the hash of speaker (minus hearsay), chan, timestamp, payload to the db?
4a488d0f0270a4bc…0270a4bc…2022-07-11 17:56:34 <bitbot> (ossasepia) 2020-04-20 diana_coman: in other things, since I am looking again at the annoying issue with log lines and numbers and whatnots - my current thinking is to ditch that source of trouble entirely and simply use hashes for each line to identify it uniquel
b2c55a274a488d0f…6d9614d0…2022-07-11 17:56:13 <signpost> yeah, somebody'd have to retroactively munge harder identifiers into historic log
895fe72f4a488d0f…780d8d1a…2022-07-11 18:12:16 <awt> signpost: billymg 205.134.172.29:7778 2022-07-11 11:10:53.076080
1ff1c395b2c55a27…b2c55a27…2022-07-11 17:56:46 <signpost> but this getting harder is part of the history, not a big deal imho
8a787e94895fe72f…895fe72f…2022-07-11 18:12:46 <awt> billymg: 9975, 9974 might be interesting to you - fixed a bug where %unpeer deleted random keys
95a1c4ff1ff1c395…1ff1c395…2022-07-11 17:57:10 <signpost> some historian can sit down and solve if they feel motivated.
bfecc4528a787e94…56a3f3df…2022-07-11 18:12:56 <signpost> wonder if that's the issue, that maybe my key got nuked on billmg's end
726c6e8095a1c4ff…9bce5b4c…2022-07-11 17:57:35 <asciilifeform> signpost: so long as the archived line is actually in there somewhere, you can find it, in a pinch, via text search
01ecde0756a3f3df…726c6e80…2022-07-11 17:58:31 <asciilifeform> the only historic chan that aint in asciilifeform's db at all is #o, where at one pt bot was unceremoniously kicked and asciilifeform went 'wai log them if they dun want'
8cd5a0419cc0c67a…bfecc452…2022-07-11 18:14:09 <signpost> those bytes of the key are now leaked to the internets, lol
9e9895fa9cc0c67a…86dfabc4…2022-07-11 18:14:26 <awt> billymg: are you seeing this key using the %wot command?
599c7ff98cd5a041…9cc0c67a…2022-07-11 18:17:53 <billymg> did i miss something where commands changed from /command to %command?
30af0a9902d1c884…02d1c884…2022-07-11 18:15:12 <signpost> with weechat's setting to send unknown commands
3a4e63b3a786bdd8…a786bdd8…2022-07-11 18:18:50 <billymg> awt: shows same key whether via /wot signpost or %wot signpost
a12d0b6979abc97d…79abc97d…2022-07-11 18:17:05 <awt> billymg: ok just wanted to make sure they peer_id for the key was associated with the correct peer and that there aren't multiple floating about in the db.
fd491f8aa12d0b69…30af0a99…2022-07-11 18:17:02 <signpost> I typically move to another buffer to issue sensitive commands, lest I accidentally fart a whole key to the wrong one.
e2e00e2ab85a971c…494d4627…2022-07-11 19:10:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform found only 1 'final solution' for the 'missile codes into wrong buffer' problem -- separate boxes / kvm
997fe99e00000000f5d9767e…2022-07-11 19:24:10 <phf> don't know why i think that it makes sense to write custom binary parser every time..
f79bf56b997fe99e…0023f7a8…2022-07-11 19:25:42 <PeterL> you just need to install a second ceiling under the first one to catch it if it happens to fall down
0449d175000000002fe810e9…2022-07-12 00:04:43 <phf> broadcast pkt using new packet parser/generator (take 3)
0853adfd11f8c8ad…7b1dcfd6…2022-07-12 16:22:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 19:58:50 awt[billymg|signpost]: for bots, setting order_buffer_check_seconds and order_buffer_expiration_seconds to like 10 should speed things up quite a bit.
9a095fb6e8f47002…5d0a2674…2022-07-12 16:28:18 <whaack> weird with the random newlines coming from my bot
1c9840249a095fb6…9a095fb6…2022-07-12 16:28:42 <whaack> also my console displayed "<-Pest-> Replay: 2022-07-11 22:27:29:" when i ran view-height
df20900382e0b235…0a71b8f2…2022-07-12 16:31:09 <whaack> so bizarre... my bot just printed a newline not seen by bitdash again
26f89bc3311f1a0c…7e05777a…2022-07-12 16:29:04 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/E17E4208DABCC09AD9CFC02F5A8D21C01AD12CAA.asc
4be3ddaa26f89bc3…1c984024…2022-07-12 16:29:32 <whaack> interesting to note as well that bitdash didn't see trbexplorer's response
89b652e2319854cc…15613b4f…2022-07-13 17:27:43 <billymg> awt: i can't seem to press 9975 or 9974. i grabbed the files from: http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/
d1aac6e489b652e2…89b652e2…2022-07-13 17:28:42 <billymg> did i miss a regrind of an earlier patch or something?
de6f08460a71b8f2…82e0b235…2022-07-12 16:26:50 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
5d811ef512c5f3c7…ec345fb1…2022-07-13 17:30:52 <awt> billymg: no key change. I tested pressing it myself, also.
1e9e0137c33bf1e2…f92eea98…2022-07-12 16:33:33 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
69606b4807f8e5de…12c5f3c7…2022-07-13 17:35:36 <billymg> yeah, just thought i'd ask before trying to debug
1a7f51632bb128ad…1e9e0137…2022-07-12 16:35:37 <trbexplorer> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=5yGw 1 of 1
3950df9669606b48…69606b48…2022-07-13 17:36:24 <billymg> v.pl's "not found in flow" probably my least favorite error message of all time
879357f73950df96…152ea09a…2022-07-13 17:35:03 <PeterL> I seem to remember seeing that if it is expecting a full path but you just give it the filename?
e59a272b47427dc3…3950df96…2022-07-13 17:39:39 <billymg> PeterL: using the exact same syntax in the exact same directory for 9976 works
ca983906cec7edbb…22d9cdfe…2022-07-12 16:41:26 <whaack> awt: that seems to have helped quite a bit ty
98b2cacaca983906…ca983906…2022-07-12 16:41:34 <whaack> still gotta figure out what's up with the random newlines
34764266eebc217d…47427dc3…2022-07-13 17:38:22 <awt> billymg: not sure if better, but I was at least able to get it working. I can provide you a sample working directory structioner + command if needed.
d10364a6b4e3a9fd…cec7edbb…2022-07-12 16:40:30 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
60d4caa0d10364a6…b4e3a9fd…2022-07-12 16:44:37 <whaack> !e view-address 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx
fe41b1a160d4caa0…d10364a6…2022-07-12 16:41:03 <trbexplorer> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=mlGS 1 of 1
a986a9393de7564f…85c2fb32…2022-07-13 17:40:58 <awt> http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vpy-updated-for-vtools/#selection-77.207-77.293 << currently not working
c88d6b17c52b8701…60d4caa0…2022-07-12 16:51:45 <whaack> awt: not that i'm aware of , is this happening in USAschawitz?
d530edd90a5c012e…0a5c012e…2022-07-13 17:45:43 <billymg> awt: your latest two patch signatures don't contain your handle
196614d6d530edd9…d530edd9…2022-07-13 17:45:56 <billymg> they end with .sig instead of .thimbronion.sig
4a571551196614d6…196614d6…2022-07-13 17:46:05 <billymg> perhaps v.py doesn't care, v.pl does however
b209d0dae2fea691…fe41b1a1…2022-07-12 17:01:27 <trbexplorer> whaack: my valid commands are: src, uptime, version, help, view-height, view-address, view-utxos, view-balance, view-block, view-raw-block, view-tx, view-raw-tx, push
64f2fdb1339d9c42…339d9c42…2022-07-13 17:47:09 <billymg> honestly should've been written as simple "dun work, gl asshole"
f247aae15f216d79…5616d144…2022-07-12 17:06:35 <whaack> fixed newline problem, it was always there but freenode seemed to ignore blank lines
e68ad1d209c57d31…af5286dc…2022-07-13 17:45:21 <awt> I tried debugging a few times but just couldn't grok the perl
b53b3865f247aae1…f247aae1…2022-07-12 17:06:52 <whaack> !e view-balance 1Fx3N5iFPDQxUKhhmDJqCMmi3U8Y7gSncx
7b2b4888e68ad1d2…2b9af3f8…2022-07-13 17:50:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-13#1009636 << v.py is asciilifeform's orig. v. ( asciilifeform uses to this day )
5b693886ad7330c6…ad7330c6…2022-07-13 17:55:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009413 << to this day asciilifeform 'hm oughta add actual eggog handling' but never got the cycles, grr
30bdb06c5b693886…0853adfd…2022-07-13 17:55:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 13:44:23 billymg: honestly should've been written as simple "dun work, gl asshole"
3434e45861a56270…26f89bc3…2022-07-12 17:10:31 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4.asc
82f98be73fbfffb6…09c57d31…2022-07-13 18:02:57 <billymg> asciilifeform: it's something i've wanted to do also. would be a good first step introduction to v inner workings for me
52be682af078dbc5…3434e458…2022-07-12 22:04:22 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/57512CE78CF08BB25FE277A4B16136257FB8FBDD.asc
385dd90e82f98be7…82f98be7…2022-07-13 18:03:12 <billymg> at the moment still have lenghty list of other items i want to finish first
79dc98d2385dd90e…3fbfffb6…2022-07-13 18:06:48 asciilifeform still hopes to live longenuff to properly depythonize the thing
741e05eb79dc98d2…3e6c60f6…2022-07-13 18:30:58 <signpost> awt: yeah but I have been patching the same press by hand.
932e6f23b859d337…b859d337…2022-07-13 01:56:30 <billymg> let me know if anything looks off, quite possible i missed something
15613b4f932e6f23…932e6f23…2022-07-13 01:57:50 billymg notes that the 'dark theme' is still available also, for those who prefer -- can set in the footer
52acf2701219fe34…1c2ec1c9…2022-07-13 18:34:05 <crawlerbot> billymg: last reconnect: 1m ago; last restart: 1m ago
36761a6133ad7947…30bdb06c…2022-07-13 18:35:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-11 19:58:50 awt[billymg|signpost]: for bots, setting order_buffer_check_seconds and order_buffer_expiration_seconds to like 10 should speed things up quite a bit.
47f0d805a560d967…36761a61…2022-07-13 18:37:53 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m
fb5a0aa7fc6720ff…52acf270…2022-07-13 18:44:07 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Could not connect!), h=744698, v=99999, United States - peers: 267 - last probed: 42m ago
7103434bfb5a0aa7…fb5a0aa7…2022-07-13 18:44:07 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, Norway - peers: 83 - last probed: 44m ago
6777bcf27103434b…7103434b…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, Canada - peers: 58 - last probed: 43m ago
413364586777bcf2…6777bcf2…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 48 - last probed: 42m ago
a039b9aa41336458…41336458…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/71.114.46.117-8333 ][71.114.46.117] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, United States - peers: 47 - last probed: 45m ago
2b0d5173a039b9aa…a039b9aa…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, Romania - peers: 45 - last probed: 43m ago
a4ad5ccd2b0d5173…2b0d5173…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=744850, v=88888, France - peers: 43 - last probed: 43m ago
1cbcda62a4ad5ccd…a4ad5ccd…2022-07-13 18:44:08 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=744850, v=70001, United States - peers: 42 - last probed: 43m ago
0d3c64e31cbcda62…1cbcda62…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, United States - peers: 40 - last probed: 43m ago
02f4cbce0d3c64e3…0d3c64e3…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=347105, v=99999, United States - peers: 38 - last probed: 43m ago
04ef250e02f4cbce…02f4cbce…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, United States - peers: 21 - last probed: 43m ago
4a5c237404ef250e…04ef250e…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=744777, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 16 - last probed: 43m ago
4e3085ab4a5c2374…4a5c2374…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=744757, v=99999, United States - peers: 15 - last probed: 43m ago
d015cb924e3085ab…4e3085ab…2022-07-13 18:44:09 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=744850, v=99999, United States - peers: 2 - last probed: 43m ago
9d424b2d42d75d42…d015cb92…2022-07-13 18:45:14 <crawlerbot> Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 7329; TRB-Compatible: 26; TRB: 14
b734a46642d75d42…319854cc…2022-07-13 20:15:25 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009392 < currently running 9974, pressed with esthlos-v and hasn't crashed at all.
fac3a9299d424b2d…9d424b2d…2022-07-13 18:45:14 <crawlerbot> TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 7; Germany: 4; Romania: 3; Singapore: 2; Brazil: 1; Canada: 1; Italy: 1; France: 1; Andorra: 1; Sweden: 1; Belgium: 1; Ukraine: 1; Spain: 1; Bulgaria: 1;
e88139fcb734a466…47f0d805…2022-07-13 20:15:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 13:31:35 awt[billymg]: I believe it worked for signpost, at least
5c466a2afac3a929…fac3a929…2022-07-13 18:45:14 <crawlerbot> TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; New Zealand: 1; Norway: 1;
9f06492fe88139fc…b734a466…2022-07-13 20:16:06 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009413 << top kek
e308c53f9f06492f…e88139fc…2022-07-13 20:16:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 13:44:23 billymg: honestly should've been written as simple "dun work, gl asshole"
25228da8db46db58…ad082f3c…2022-07-13 21:44:45 <scoopbot> Added site http://peterl.xyz/feed/rss, Blog of Peter Lambert, latest: http://peterl.xyz/2022/01/pest-network-example-metapost-figures/
6f25e9eb23ec5b74…25228da8…2022-07-13 21:45:19 <scoopbot> PeterL: my valid commands are: src, uptime, help, list, remove, add, version
cd02913050a27e77…b7f7071d…2022-07-13 22:00:58 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/260fa57bce677a5c04bf60ba4a75883cc1b1d34c.asc
7e95846a088f5fce…088f5fce…2022-07-13 22:25:02 <PeterL> shinohai: for scoopbot: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=JR0Z
e0be1679f6fbe094…f6fbe094…2022-07-13 23:45:36 <shinohai> and awt that patch that applied peer list fix is just *chef's kiss* .....
71f843a9000000007c37bd77…2022-07-14 02:59:25 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009404 << ty, i solved my periodic crashing httpd issue, but then i forgot to put mysql into rc.conf
0051584f71f843a9…e308c53f…2022-07-14 02:59:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 13:41:06 awt[billymg]: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vpy-updated-for-vtools/#selection-77.207-77.293 << currently not working
6e18983e184353e4…956cf4d4…2022-07-14 13:47:33 <whaack> wedged, damn. the frequency at which trb gets wedged really makes any block explorer that uses trb as its source of truth at a disadvantage for 'normal day use'
839ee54b184353e4…79dc98d2…2022-07-14 13:55:30 <asciilifeform> hm whaack does yours suffer from bona fide wedges, or simply slow ?
dd3798496e18983e…6e18983e…2022-07-14 13:49:44 <whaack> i have my NZ explorer syncing now. It's trb base is fully sync'd. So i'll have a second place where trbexplorer is hosted, increasingly the likelihood that there is at least 1 trbexporer sync'd up to the block tip
78c315de0000000071f843a9…2022-07-14 14:03:20 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-14#1111519 << https://www.thirtyonewhiskey.com/whiskey-review-bulleit-rye-whiskey/ this has been my goto. i'm not much into whisky appreciation, so when i find a good work horse..
f71069a078c315de…0051584f…2022-07-14 14:03:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-14 vex: alf shino signpost phf vex gregor. who else like pounding whiskey?
49fc0b2205e464e5…96a97046…2022-07-14 15:12:24 <whaack> asciilifeform: dunno exactly what to call it, my node falls behind every1 elses 1-2 times a week or so
a61317f805e464e5…839ee54b…2022-07-14 15:17:11 <asciilifeform> whaack: when falls behind, does it 'catch up' without manipulation, or you end up rebooting it ?
ca67f87fa61317f8…a61317f8…2022-07-14 15:17:46 <asciilifeform> 'wedge' in traditional trb parlance is when the thing is actually hung, i.e. won't come back to life no matter how long you wait
9e48d723ca67f87f…ca67f87f…2022-07-14 15:18:43 <asciilifeform> ( see e.g. cgra's exposition re various causes for the latter )
d377fe0b9e48d723…49fc0b22…2022-07-14 15:24:44 <whaack> wedge would be the wrong term the, yes it manages to catch up without intervention
015a7f8492ee4da7…771c77ad…2022-07-14 15:25:21 <whaack> come to think of it, it may be related to its interaction with trbexplorer
2134a757825a257d…6f25e9eb…2022-07-14 16:14:11 <scoopbot> New post on Blog of Peter Lambert: [ http://peterl.xyz/2022/07/update-to-scoopbot/ ][ Update to Scoopbot ]
86d2fd0300000000bb567bcf…2022-07-14 17:08:29 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-14#1111545 an accomplished man of means kind of problem
3b86f51f86d2fd03…f71069a0…2022-07-14 17:08:40 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-14 signpost: vex: I'm more of a brandy guy these days. wrecks my gut less.
ed27ca31a87257f6…a87257f6…2022-07-14 17:31:40 <signpost> I've also been getting immunotherapy shots to turn down the reactions to everything.
61671101ed27ca31…ed27ca31…2022-07-14 17:31:51 <signpost> lifetime of living up to my eyeballs in plastic and smog
a2775fbcfae0c4c1…61671101…2022-07-14 17:33:38 <signpost> yeah, breathing waaay better. and not to overshare, but superior shits also.
b73a646ba2775fbc…a2775fbc…2022-07-14 17:33:52 signpost figures been in a steady state immune reaction for a while.
8799016db4f5d91f…b4f5d91f…2022-07-14 17:34:38 <asciilifeform> i suppose makes sense, allergy on both ends of tract
b582b390efe05d7f…8799016d…2022-07-14 17:35:56 asciilifeform still suffers permanent allergy 'to usa' (vanishes when goes to europistan, half-vanishes in south a) and nfi wtf
688dff51b582b390…3b86f51f…2022-07-14 17:36:05 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-08 asciilifeform: signpost: at one pt asciilifeform had 'allergy test', where 100+ pins stuck in his back, 'which turns red', none did
8602ebf85f7e0f11…b582b390…2022-07-14 17:36:50 <asciilifeform> doubt it, 0 smog on coast of delaware but still snot
f22c29a18602ebf8…8602ebf8…2022-07-14 17:37:25 <asciilifeform> it's likely sumthing in the building materials
b3e69af1f22c29a1…5f7e0f11…2022-07-14 17:37:33 <signpost> only way to scientifically confirm is to start crushing and snorting varieties of pressed shitboard.
570fdfa0ca00c8e4…b3e69af1…2022-07-14 17:38:08 signpost has his allergies abate in northern new england.
b98cff73000000007de8f373…2022-07-14 17:39:46 <phf> just accepted that i'm allergic to everything, and power wheez my way through it
6944e64e6f356547…6f356547…2022-07-14 17:40:15 <asciilifeform> tho vacation from snot was great (last in '17)
a8b987ca00000000b98cff73…2022-07-14 17:40:26 <phf> on the plus side, comes with perks: stables ladies will tack and clean the horse for me
98be09b0a8b987ca…6944e64e…2022-07-14 17:41:05 <asciilifeform> phf: how's that work? sumthing like a datacenter for horse?
d3a3147498be09b0…570fdfa0…2022-07-14 17:40:48 <signpost> it's a sensible cut of the knot. demands for comfort only ratchet one direction.
a2d1dbc8dd83d7fa…06bb6653…2022-07-14 17:43:00 asciilifeform in datacenter gets rather spartan 'stable ladies', lol. night man: 'i took off padlock, you go open the gate and the dock, back in yer truck, wheelbarrow is over there, say when yer done'
8eeb402900000000a8b987ca…2022-07-14 17:43:18 <phf> asciilifeform: with horses almost always board, unless you're interested in daily mucking, cleaning, feeding, cleaning, mucking
d981b40200000000cb876446…2022-07-14 17:46:18 <phf> if you board in e.g. potomac village, i suspect it's potomac village prices (i stopped by a tack shop there couple of weeks ago, it's all eeenglish riding), but out here in the deplorable land everything's pretty reasonable
9457966ad981b402…8c3660fc…2022-07-14 17:48:46 <asciilifeform> signpost: re: 'ratchet', yes, but asciilifeform still remembers how neat was to actually sleep entire night w/out waking up from snot. and funnily enuff technically no longer stuck in usa, could go anywhere with fiber. but puzzle remains 'where' lol
691a516100000000d981b402…2022-07-14 17:49:00 <phf> but likewise normally nobody's going to tack your horse for you, that's a high end service (presumably something you'd get in the potomac village, again), unless you're allergic. that doesn't stop the jokes though, "your stalion awaits you, sire", etc.
094b228c691a5161…9457966a…2022-07-14 17:50:30 <asciilifeform> signpost: currently considering expedition to kakobreklastan. (supposedly among least polluted forgotten shitholes in eureich)
785172264596b424…d3a31474…2022-07-14 17:51:47 <signpost> yeah my nose doesn't close up anymore unless I'm actually sick.
33ecdb8e78517226…78517226…2022-07-14 17:52:05 signpost realized after this was fixed how fucking agitating not breathing can be.
da00efeb33ecdb8e…33ecdb8e…2022-07-14 17:52:24 <signpost> recipe for inner peace is starting from a shitty life and gradually improving.
ba06b10fda00efeb…da00efeb…2022-07-14 17:54:35 <signpost> asciilifeform: might try azelastine and see if it fixes snot
43835d58ba06b10f…4596b424…2022-07-14 17:55:17 <asciilifeform> signpost: tried ^ + just about erry pill known to man
96e278284acd5580…4acd5580…2022-07-14 17:55:40 <asciilifeform> the 1 pill that seems to work errytime is plane ticket..
669a966b96e27828…67eb5db6…2022-07-14 17:55:46 <signpost> your hindbrain is just programming you to gtfo.
161dc92c52598ecb…52598ecb…2022-07-14 17:58:46 <asciilifeform> 'hey have you got a different globe?'(tm)(r)(su)
13aebe26161dc92c…669a966b…2022-07-14 17:58:43 <signpost> meanwhile, in other collapse news, the fact that USD is appreciating against most other currencies even as inflation rages is hysterical.
5efcbb8e13aebe26…161dc92c…2022-07-14 18:00:33 <asciilifeform> 'A KGB officer summons Rabinovich: “Listen, Citizen Rabinovich, you’re annoying us. First, you complained to the UN that you are denied the right to emigrate., and now how do you act? We gave you an exit visa, and first you went to Argentina. Soon you came back and said you didn’t like it there. Then you went to
4b52e1735efcbb8e…5efcbb8e…2022-07-14 18:00:35 <asciilifeform> Israel, also only to come back. Enough is enough! Here’s our final chance: take this globe and point to any country of your choice. You’ll go there and that’s it! We won’t see you anymore.” Rabinovich picks up the globe, makes it turn again and again, sighs, puts it back on the officer’s desk: “Well, do y
11a515e200000000cb3a4705…2022-07-14 18:09:57 <phf> looks like you need one of them packet splitters, partner
d6f6e4200000000011a515e2…2022-07-14 18:19:32 <phf> asciilifeform: on both bitdash and nosuchlabs your joke ends with "Well, do y"
201d9548d6f6e420…c008f9cf…2022-07-14 18:19:51 <PeterL> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-14#1009787
52259be000000000d6f6e420…2022-07-14 18:27:43 <phf> that truncate looks like an octet count issue. like you have some characters there like left_double_quotation_mark, which is 3 bytes in utf-8. so whatever machinery, probably wheechat, is miscounting the breaks, because it's doing per-character, rather than per-octet
6c5c44607ddaf0bb…7ddaf0bb…2022-07-14 18:28:20 <asciilifeform> there's no end to the uniturd clusterfuck is there
4a077d490000000052259be0…2022-07-14 18:29:20 <phf> there's that, but also just general incompetence. n-articles have been written on the subject of utf and encoding and various concerns like that, yet somehow rune==byte
a66680524a077d49…6c5c4460…2022-07-14 18:30:42 <asciilifeform> a dedicated client oughta reattach these frags
b9da2b65a6668052…a6668052…2022-07-14 18:30:57 <asciilifeform> (but otherwise wouldn't giveafuck re uniturd internals)
a4d3d2c4683b96c1…683b96c1…2022-07-14 23:16:34 <awt> https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/inflation-protests-strikes-panama-grow-larger-despite-gas-price-cap
253a15ba3d960389…13aebe26…2022-07-15 00:58:07 <signpost> seems like people doing business in USD are starting to regret it.
cf6ff53e253a15ba…3d960389…2022-07-15 01:22:18 <awt> America really is a great place for migrants. No passport needed. Free healthcare. No taxes. I'd do it.
32eb4dbecf6ff53e…cf6ff53e…2022-07-15 01:24:06 <awt> (linked article mentioned a bus full of Colombian "migrants" crossing the border into Costa Rica)
bd8635f65d0c4a9e…5d0c4a9e…2022-07-15 01:43:26 <asciilifeform> re tax, by far biggest tax in usa is realestate inflatola. which the mexicans pay by having to live 10 to a room
a9d49b871ed4a96a…1ed4a96a…2022-07-15 01:44:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-14#1009574 << did 0 for asciilifeform fwiw
4f44eeaea9d49b87…688dff51…2022-07-15 01:44:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-14 18:15:57 awt[signpost|billymg]: flonase ftw
3a469ceb5f6414da…253a15ba…2022-07-15 05:51:46 <signpost> http://wot.deedbot.org/ << I made this index page a little more useful by showing folks in my l3 with >=2 positive ratings from someone.
c6a1b4e03a469ceb…3a469ceb…2022-07-15 05:53:46 <signpost> there are plenty of names here I'd be happy to work with again as the world burns.
3d7dcea9c6a1b4e0…c6a1b4e0…2022-07-15 05:55:17 <signpost> graphviz organized the thing pretty sensibly once I deleted deedbot and switched to "neato". perhaps I can persuade y'all to update your ratings as you currently see them.
055aabf93d7dcea9…a9d49b87…2022-07-15 14:03:13 <asciilifeform> signpost: nifty. see what it'd look like if you take out the corpse and extend 1 level.
fcdc0db6055aabf9…dd83d7fa…2022-07-15 14:55:19 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009589 << pretty neat, I'm seeing the graph images over user's fingerprint information when you click individual pages tho.
3bdd0f82fcdc0db6…4f44eeae…2022-07-15 14:55:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 01:52:21 signpost: http://wot.deedbot.org/ << I made this index page a little more useful by showing folks in my l3 with >=2 positive ratings from someone.
bbc18d603bdd0f82…201d9548…2022-07-15 15:05:42 <PeterL> signpost: on individual pages, e.g. http://wot.deedbot.org/F595258CD9F1FDBDEFAE5093B4E2E0DCACB63D25.html , it looks like the graph is sometimes covering up the text above and below it?
d63c3aa5bbc18d60…3d7dcea9…2022-07-15 15:45:41 <signpost> asciilifeform: dun wanna remove human ratings for folks; I only removed deedbot's. but I'll give another level a try.
6e37d1e3d63c3aa5…d63c3aa5…2022-07-15 15:46:05 <signpost> ideally the page indicates who interesting folks outside one's own l2 may be.
613617026e37d1e3…6e37d1e3…2022-07-15 15:46:22 <signpost> shinohai: PeterL: ty, will try to unfuck the CSS. might need to ask for halp from billymg.
998cad4761361702…61361702…2022-07-15 15:46:32 <signpost> was having a bitch of a time getting the SVG to scale properly.
0c55448cb81227b9…055aabf9…2022-07-15 15:49:31 <asciilifeform> signpost: notion wasn't even 'bury mp cuz he's dead, haha' but that afaik nobody gives half a rat's arse re the over9000 whores etc he rated, who will fill the screen if you show +n levels
a8afd4fc0c55448c…0c55448c…2022-07-15 15:50:35 asciilifeform would find, e.g. pankakke's ratings interesting, even tho just as ded
1d0e97c8a8afd4fc…b81227b9…2022-07-15 15:50:07 <signpost> I can get behind a general rule of "n00bs don't make the front page" by requiring rating of >=2
2977c22a57f2fb0b…42d75d42…2022-07-15 15:54:30 <billymg> signpost: nice, definitely a more useful visualization now
ceaea60b2977c22a…2977c22a…2022-07-15 15:55:15 <billymg> the latest version seems to be pushing the header (search box, index) off the screen for me
f8d61f65ceaea60b…dd9c8a64…2022-07-15 15:53:22 <asciilifeform> still loox like needs +1 level (all the visible folx are immediately recognizable #t veterans)
b207da56688dfb2f…688dfb2f…2022-07-15 15:55:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: theoretically a 'rated somebody in past n yrs' filter might be useful
8308ad64b207da56…ceaea60b…2022-07-15 16:01:18 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009598 << what i found easiest for the two line charts (also svg) on http://bitdash.io/ was to not touch the svgs themselves at all and instead scale their containers
6a27d2e18308ad64…3bdd0f82…2022-07-15 15:58:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 11:46:58 signpost: shinohai: PeterL: ty, will try to unfuck the CSS. might need to ask for halp from billymg.
6eebf11e6a27d2e1…8308ad64…2022-07-15 16:04:02 <billymg> i also remember it requiring some fiddling with the output scale from matplotlib, so that the proportions looked right when shrunk or stretched in the browser
c9b9d64c6eebf11e…6eebf11e…2022-07-15 16:07:02 <billymg> i actually ended up having to serve two different svgs for each chart, one for mobile/small screen proportions, and one for large screen. and then each of those scales freely in the viewport
99efe850c9b9d64c…c9b9d64c…2022-07-15 16:08:54 <billymg> it wasn't possible to just pick a middle ground and shrink/zoom in the browser because then the axis labels would either look comically huge or be too small to read
211925125efdd431…5efdd431…2022-07-15 16:44:34 <whaack> i'm interested in creating a clean webpage for trbexplorer soon, i have trbexplorer.com claimed
84c3f5c682fdbc80…21192512…2022-07-15 16:51:09 <whaack> not sure yet whether i plan to support searching for txs in the mempool, or how to support heathen addresses (bc1.. 3...)
031de22484c3f5c6…84c3f5c6…2022-07-15 16:52:11 <whaack> one solution is just generating links to other block explorers if someone searches for a heathen address
b26c1479031de224…031de224…2022-07-15 16:53:02 <whaack> i.e. 'segshit not suppported, see results from heathen browser: blockstream.info/segwitaddressyoujustsearched/'
7664f03fb26c1479…bbc18d60…2022-07-15 19:15:24 <PeterL> !!rate thimbronion 2 aka awt; authored blatta as prototype pestron
c438e8737664f03f…cd029130…2022-07-15 19:16:01 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=89bS
ee17154cc438e873…7664f03f…2022-07-15 19:16:34 <PeterL> !!v 040EDD69958EECF9D4D9881539B59A9CA19BAFF9B1F3EEB01ED1AEB41C4EFE0C
dc9dcd68ee17154c…c438e873…2022-07-15 19:17:04 <deedbot> PeterL rated thimbronion 2 << aka awt; authored blatta as prototype pestron
e1b2f3845079484d…dc9dcd68…2022-07-15 19:18:13 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=oVtR
79be718fe1b2f384…5079484d…2022-07-15 19:18:32 <PeterL> !!v 384EEAA7F8E619C0820FE860567F864B6ABEAD5D41174C14F076A4CE30E51173
f2dcda5179be718f…e1b2f384…2022-07-15 19:18:58 <deedbot> PeterL updated rating of signpost from 1 to 2 << aka trinque; runs deedbot
2ceff451f2dcda51…79be718f…2022-07-15 19:22:01 <PeterL> !!rate asciilifeform 3 designed pest, ffa, other stuff. solid dude.
c95055aa2ceff451…f2dcda51…2022-07-15 19:22:19 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=hADq
da9fcdb2c95055aa…2ceff451…2022-07-15 19:22:44 <PeterL> !!v 1656CEF889B4B9412CD3EE07ECD6EE4E0478008F0204D6AEA8B1958809089A50
0aeacf42da9fcdb2…c95055aa…2022-07-15 19:23:01 <deedbot> PeterL updated rating of asciilifeform from 1 to 3 << designed pest, ffa, other stuff. solid dude.
4524c02f0aeacf42…da9fcdb2…2022-07-15 19:24:22 <PeterL> !!rate ben_vulpes 1 formerly board for The Real Bitcoin Foundation
4417b18d4524c02f…0aeacf42…2022-07-15 19:24:38 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=SrAE
95618ebe4417b18d…4524c02f…2022-07-15 19:25:00 <PeterL> !!v 442E9ED243D035343FD7D813A1FB13AAA9C91A012AA8F42D66C4AE98A3E7CA9C
59188a1895618ebe…4417b18d…2022-07-15 19:25:14 <deedbot> PeterL updated rating of ben_vulpes from 1 to 1 << formerly board for The Real Bitcoin Foundation
b4db07e659188a18…95618ebe…2022-07-15 19:25:31 <PeterL> !!rate mod6 1 formerly board for The Real Bitcoin Foundation
4d0cf0deb4db07e6…59188a18…2022-07-15 19:25:45 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=rYhX
b3b9e26c4d0cf0de…b4db07e6…2022-07-15 19:26:05 <PeterL> !!v 268FEE0E4E0A15C995D832C7010EABA56549F16EE08041F5FFFB04BF05C060F6
1e438a6eb3b9e26c…4d0cf0de…2022-07-15 19:26:19 <deedbot> PeterL updated rating of mod6 from 1 to 1 << formerly board for The Real Bitcoin Foundation
ea03351c1e438a6e…b3b9e26c…2022-07-15 19:27:34 <PeterL> !!rate shinohai 1 hangs around, is sometimes helpful
e1abe5cfea03351c…1e438a6e…2022-07-15 19:27:47 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=i8R2
8e1cd9d8e1abe5cf…ea03351c…2022-07-15 19:28:11 <PeterL> !!v 985CD500782BDBEB062D7B51C2F4316D157B531DA21224C0A30660B8534A7394
6c93050b8e1cd9d8…e1abe5cf…2022-07-15 19:28:23 <deedbot> PeterL rated shinohai 1 << hangs around, is sometimes helpful
e5d8fafed5fce9b4…4e4d810a…2022-07-15 19:30:13 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=lUSs
58e9730ce5d8fafe…d5fce9b4…2022-07-15 19:30:38 <PeterL> !!v E3C285F219C9CADBF1A296BE7108758CEF5394D4F522C90E329D9565778CE8B0
7a5dec81b9d878f6…58e9730c…2022-07-15 19:32:17 <PeterL> !!rate billymg 1 did a lot of work fixing up MP-WP
037beda27a5dec81…b9d878f6…2022-07-15 19:32:28 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6N1v
3d0c7228037beda2…7a5dec81…2022-07-15 19:32:49 <PeterL> !!v F898D9227CCEBB4A57B059DD2E2DFB1F4703C03D5324A5BA6E06D72E495104F2
b9a89ea53d0c7228…037beda2…2022-07-15 19:33:00 <deedbot> PeterL rated billymg 1 << did a lot of work fixing up MP-WP
e7312a78b9a89ea5…fcdc0db6…2022-07-15 20:00:30 <shinohai> I guess that's better than "is never helpful".
c3bdf046000000004a077d49…2022-07-14 18:32:21 <phf> you still have to unitard, at the point where you convert string to bytes. even if you're doing native client. and you can't just `truncate on byte`, because that'll fuck with legacy irc clients. truncate on byte is obviously broken, because you might truncate in the middle of 3-byte sequence or whatever, losing a characte
814a697a000000000539e8c7…2022-07-14 18:34:02 <phf> but yeah first thing to do in grownup pest logger, is to add split message merge
aae270e900000000a0ceb6cc…2022-07-15 23:17:43 <phf> trinque: is deedbot wot database available in a dump somewhere? or it's proprietary information :)
71f6ce94000000002d85ca12…2022-07-15 23:22:52 <phf> i was thinking, since forever, i think maybe even tried to bring it up to mp's "why do it that way what are you stupid or worse an engineer!", but maybe misremembering, that maybe wot ought to, or could, just be a public log of signed "rate <x> <n> <comment>"
bed578120000000071f6ce94…2022-07-15 23:24:01 <phf> where x is a symbol that might or might not map to a nick, but the nick to pgp hash correspondence and uniqueness is not actually property of wot
41fa7210bed57812…8ac4c2b0…2022-07-15 23:24:52 <signpost> the argument for not compiling a database of signed ratings was that it creates proof of a relationship which The Man may use against you.
bfda1d2c41fa7210…41fa7210…2022-07-15 23:25:17 <signpost> whereas current model creates a cache which suggests you go ask the human about their rating if you like.
6508e75300000000bed57812…2022-07-15 23:25:50 <phf> this way can also accomodate the old tmsr condemnation rate `rate president-macron -100 le frog`. at the end get a kind of rated tag space of opinions and perspectives
e2ef9c4a6508e753…bfda1d2c…2022-07-15 23:25:49 <signpost> personally I like the world where one swears to their sayings, but can see the above argument also.
42ae1d6de2ef9c4a…e2ef9c4a…2022-07-15 23:26:06 <signpost> wot command might be borked, used to shit an sexp of wot.
d198d0680a725606…0022fc0f…2022-07-15 23:27:52 <signpost> upstack, regarding the wot database it should eventually be an entirely decentralized mechanism of some kind. me dying shouldn't mean shit.
08aa9327000000000a725606…2022-07-15 23:29:38 <phf> signpost: being the master of logs at some point, i obv see everything in terms of one long neverending scroll of communication, that one can mine for information, so e.g. having a process walk the log ought to produce a complete and current wot (subsequent rates override previous ones, etc.)
4e5ea85b08aa9327…d198d068…2022-07-15 23:31:40 <signpost> I think this is right. ideologically speaking the log should contain all history.
d7046ce80000000008aa9327…2022-07-15 23:32:10 <phf> probably should reflect on what pest means for that kind of thing. with trust implications of pest, is it enough for station to say `i rate x at y with comment` and have an observe be able to make some claims about the implications of such statement. e.g. l1 treats that as `fact` l2 as useful hearsay, etc.
3556cb27dac327d7…dac327d7…2022-07-15 23:33:22 <signpost> there's a fundamental republican cultural object in there somewhere.
11e26bc83556cb27…3556cb27…2022-07-15 23:33:45 <signpost> vpatches also need this, a place to be recorded.
952f62822e76bae5…11e26bc8…2022-07-15 23:38:38 <signpost> re: observers and how truth propagates it's interesting. one could imagine swearing to having observed, and so on.
ab6687c8952f6282…952f6282…2022-07-15 23:41:02 <signpost> one can start getting allergic about "PKI" but the problem there's the centralization and bureaucracy, not chains of trust.
fc7947a4ab6687c8…ab6687c8…2022-07-15 23:42:05 signpost also finds himself still pulled by Voice of Authorization to contemplate WoT, has various items on desk in that direction.
4650e257000000002e76bae5…2022-07-15 23:45:31 <phf> i'm so far designing my pest to keep the packets indefinitely. considering that the whole of tmsr, including that utterly pointless b-a ancient history, was about 450mb in memory. from that perspective if things like rating become simply some form of structured pronouncements, one essentially keeps “own wot”
4fa0770b000000004650e257…2022-07-15 23:49:51 <phf> a bounces 0 packet from asciilifeform is as good as truth to his peers, but everything else requires additional investigation
ac5156924fa0770b…fc7947a4…2022-07-15 23:55:23 <signpost> pest seems in the direction of the right model tbh, and not just a good-enough hack
ddd87b7cac515692…6a27d2e1…2022-07-15 23:56:01 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-06 asciilifeform: recognizes the 'inelegance' of the h(s) scheme , 'yer trying to get the win from rsa sigs w/out paying price of rsa, and will never be as good as Real Thing' but imho over9000x beats 'nuffin'
663dda38ddd87b7c…ac515692…2022-07-15 23:56:04 <signpost> non-opposable with hard assurance at l1, attenuates thereafter.
f9e376dd663dda38…663dda38…2022-07-15 23:56:32 <signpost> everybody has as much assurance in their own copy of history as their relationships grant them.
0e9ef483f9e376dd…f9e376dd…2022-07-15 23:57:11 <signpost> and even at the edges one can find it pretty likely, even if not mathematically provable.
bb4c9cce7e6e51b2…82fdbc80…2022-07-16 02:45:50 <asciilifeform> signpost et al: per asciilifeform , the 'ask x about y' oughta be integrated pestronically. but iirc already described this
993ff47fbb4c9cce…bb4c9cce…2022-07-16 02:47:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009694 << best kind of signature for sumthing like ratings imho.
03e1207a993ff47f…ddd87b7c…2022-07-16 02:47:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 19:57:09 signpost: everybody has as much assurance in their own copy of history as their relationships grant them.
e534a93003e1207a…993ff47f…2022-07-16 02:48:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009679 << indeed, given that errybody gets complete log (eventually), can even sift'em outta log.
aad6e444e534a930…03e1207a…2022-07-16 02:48:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 19:29:49 phf[signpost|billymg]: signpost: being the master of logs at some point, i obv see everything in terms of one long neverending scroll of communication, that one can mine for information, so e.g. having a process walk the log ought to produce a complete and current wot (subsequent rates overrid
c081b96eaad6e444…e534a930…2022-07-16 02:49:08 <asciilifeform> (gets tricky in re 'bob problem' however)
c20c9521d533dd0a…aad6e444…2022-07-16 03:04:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-06 asciilifeform: phf: and when 2+ nets merge, and this produces a handle collison ? (aka the 'bob' problem)
e7a3515500000000163a1d83…2022-07-16 03:06:27 <phf> namespacing problems always end up with some hairbrained schemes of solutions that never the less fail irl
a287565700000000e7a35155…2022-07-16 03:07:38 <phf> i have a solution to bob problem: when merging nets, if there's a collision, colliding individuals fight to surrender in a thunderdome. the loser is forever banished from civilized protocols.
7b0887a8a2875657…8bff77ad…2022-07-16 03:08:11 asciilifeform not has any reason to concretely believe in the solvability of 'namespace problem' in the general case; other than 'die trying' approach
5c722c107b0887a8…c20c9521…2022-07-16 03:08:20 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-05-31 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
1521eb8000000000a2875657…2022-07-16 03:08:29 <phf> of course one can surrender ones designator for a different one, and avoid himself the trouble
32dfa3ce1521eb80…7b0887a8…2022-07-16 03:08:36 <asciilifeform> phf: a++ solution. nao, to implement...
dfbcfa29000000001521eb80…2022-07-16 03:09:21 <phf> if either parity refuses to surrender the identifier OR to participate in fight to surrender in a thurderdome, both parties are booted from the resultant network
e7af3f8a30de6508…30de6508…2022-07-16 03:10:15 <asciilifeform> even to have'em play 'rock/paper/scissors' would be great. nao if could distinguish'em..
dc22d21d00000000ffbfa1c0…2022-07-16 03:10:59 <phf> a representative of the net responsible for the merger speaks on behalf of member
55919c8e00000000dc22d21d…2022-07-16 03:12:12 <phf> there are some issues to the protocol though. the members of the “losing” network have to cary the cognitive load of readjustment. perhaps bitcoin compensation distributed evenly is in order :D
2dbf86a655919c8e…e7af3f8a…2022-07-16 03:12:41 <asciilifeform> naively might suppose that the 1st merge peer would know on what side he expects 'bob'. but in actuality not knows, because the 'wrong' side may in fact be already peered, via some # of hops, to 'right' bob
3f1690e22dbf86a6…2dbf86a6…2022-07-16 03:13:11 asciilifeform fully expects, in all srsns, that there'll be pestnets where pay to play, somewhere
0e4982990000000055919c8e…2022-07-16 03:14:15 <phf> i agree that pest perhaps should be more explicitly about name management, which right now exists both out of bound (where you keep “operator” in the station's definition) and in bound
80279c550e498299…3f1690e2…2022-07-16 03:15:08 asciilifeform can't find thread atm, but at one pt suggested nixing the 'speaker' field entirely, in favour of a 'i'm x' msg type, which folx dredge outta log
b073a00380279c55…80279c55…2022-07-16 03:15:26 <asciilifeform> then can decide what to call their 'bob' via sequencing of same
c386b727000000000e498299…2022-07-16 03:15:49 <phf> yeah, on related note, what happens when bounces is 0, but speaker is not station operator?
0b2f4370c386b727…b073a003…2022-07-16 03:16:15 <asciilifeform> per current spec, only immediate or direct msg may have bounce 0
3ec88db49d1c596f…9d1c596f…2022-07-16 03:18:08 <asciilifeform> ^ if immediate msg but speaker != peer's known handle, is specially marked in console.
830083fe9f01793b…03221bad…2022-07-16 03:34:01 <awt> Can we assume, given Dunbar's number, which is in the range from 100 to 250, that any two pestnets that fuse will likely be of size s and D - s?
419f882f830083fe…830083fe…2022-07-16 03:34:19 <awt> If so, how likely are namespace collisions to be and how difficult would they be to resolve "manually?"
d9fad775fb983547…0e9ef483…2022-07-16 03:49:36 <signpost> awt: the weird thing about the internet is that our dunbars aren't one group.
5da085d5d9fad775…d9fad775…2022-07-16 03:50:34 <signpost> would be nice to build such that eat-the-world is possible, even while avoiding the hubris of expecting to.
f13a5e200000000000000000…2022-07-16 03:54:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009739 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-slime-say.png
2f9d26c7f13a5e20…d451c681…2022-07-16 03:54:03 <signpost> re: bobs problem, was thinking that a proper design of pesttronic wot might help solve.
5b95c71ef13a5e20…5c722c10…2022-07-16 03:54:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 23:40:01 phf[signpost|billymg]: it's like we're half way to genera
75583bd9eb83a890…eb83a890…2022-07-16 03:56:01 <signpost> having it in the REPL might be mighty handy.
4550ec8675583bd9…75583bd9…2022-07-16 03:56:57 <signpost> upstack on wot, one's identity is what others call them. (NOT what one "identifies as")
708ecce54550ec86…4550ec86…2022-07-16 03:57:34 <signpost> suppose a rating pointed to a given message to indicate identity. "I'm rating whomever produced this chain of messages"
1c665d4c708ecce5…708ecce5…2022-07-16 03:58:31 <signpost> if you have two people claiming to both be bob, crawl up their self-chains and figure out where they fall in your wot. let UI indicate this somehow, "bob before biff, ben, and beelzebub"
f1b4a44e1c665d4c…1c665d4c…2022-07-16 03:58:47 signpost might misunderstand the problem, invites correction if so.
6ce815e8f1b4a44e…2c02382d…2022-07-16 04:02:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009735 << nah. by analogy with stellar novae -- fusion can getcha a larger-than-ideal net, which will then frag
1a5e3a5d6ce815e8…5b95c71e…2022-07-16 04:02:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 23:34:10 awt[signpost|billymg]: Can we assume, given Dunbar's number, which is in the range from 100 to 250, that any two pestnets that fuse will likely be of size s and D - s?
78e1009c1a5e3a5d…6ce815e8…2022-07-16 04:02:25 <asciilifeform> (not necessarily along the original edge of fusion, either)
51f1e25a78e1009c…78e1009c…2022-07-16 04:03:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009749 << the problem is that currently is absolutely trivial for impersonator to fraudulently extend a chain
4a94edeb51f1e25a…1a5e3a5d…2022-07-16 04:03:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 23:58:12 signpost: suppose a rating pointed to a given message to indicate identity. "I'm rating whomever produced this chain of messages"
51fb19044a94edeb…f1b4a44e…2022-07-16 04:03:45 <signpost> ratings prior to the fraudulent extension would give one trust in the chain up to that point.
7e6076502353c953…2353c953…2022-07-16 04:04:05 <signpost> and that still requires the humans to figure out who's bob, which seems unavoidable
7cf8046c7e607650…7e607650…2022-07-16 04:04:27 <signpost> (specifically, update rating to head of real bobchain, negrate fake bobchain)
6ecf05ff7cf8046c…51f1e25a…2022-07-16 04:04:59 <asciilifeform> signpost: the thing is, there is no usable 'identity' attached to either chain. (unless 1 of the 'bobs' is in yer l1, in which case you auto-resolve the fork, by existing spec, and there aint any 'bob problem')
95ed2d9800000000f13a5e20…2022-07-16 04:05:00 <phf> asciilifeform: but isn't that the point? like impersonator in l1 is “irrelevant”, but impersonator in l>1 is the whole reason for ‘gossip’?
3b92e16795ed2d98…6ecf05ff…2022-07-16 04:05:14 <asciilifeform> phf: observe 'gossip' is nowhere in pest spec
2942b7fc3b92e167…7cf8046c…2022-07-16 04:04:57 <signpost> I tihnk this problem requires some amount of gossip.
4e3d29829cbc6d37…3b92e167…2022-07-16 04:05:35 asciilifeform never bought into mp's notion that inability to usefully distinguish l2+ msgs is 'feature'
37b2e5ef3db33b91…9cbc6d37…2022-07-16 04:05:32 <signpost> whoever knows the bobs must speak for them, convince others of their bobacity.
9fea356937b2e5ef…6511ebe6…2022-07-16 04:07:01 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform aimed for is somehow 'martian bank', i.e. emulate as much as possible of the mechanics of 'dulapnet' but w/out the hierarchy.
e324bacd9fea3569…9fea3569…2022-07-16 04:07:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: of what 'convince others' if there's no means to ~distinguish~ the bobs, is the q
2ba530cfe324bacd…e324bacd…2022-07-16 04:07:43 <asciilifeform> atm they aint guaranteed to be distinguishable.
3a6be9b2000000003db33b91…2022-07-16 04:07:44 <phf> asciilifeform: that's a shame, because i'm kind of in it for the ambiguity :) i kind of like the idea of gossip, because while you can have “trusted communication” with your immediate net, anyone outside of it intentionally get a potentially distorted picture. не веришь, прими за сказку
cfb2b2353a6be9b2…37b2e5ef…2022-07-16 04:07:21 <signpost> asciilifeform: there is what to distinguish. somebody peered with all bobs in question.
f67a7725cfb2b235…de6fec31…2022-07-16 04:08:02 <asciilifeform> dun look like anyone knows, phf, how to get rid of the ambiguity.
42d3c8bbf67a7725…cfb2b235…2022-07-16 04:07:37 <signpost> *you* don't have what to distinguish, but you'll have to be supplied it by who has in some form to know.
897d9376bad62d14…16ec08ea…2022-07-16 04:10:23 <signpost> phf: I think there's utility in having both spaces.
fc845fb8897d9376…897d9376…2022-07-16 04:10:42 <signpost> where one swears before god and all, and where nobody can prove exactly who said what outside the cabal.
030f9b03fc845fb8…bad62d14…2022-07-16 04:11:25 <asciilifeform> 'bob problem' fwiw unfortunately not only affects 2+ l2+ 'bobs', but also fact that one cannot distinguish a hearsay from l1 'bob' (where somehow immediate copy never arrived) from a l2+ 'bob' msg.
4f4d46b0030f9b03…030f9b03…2022-07-16 04:11:53 <asciilifeform> ( can heuristic via 'bob[n]' indicator but it aint a guarantee , esp. if 'bob' l1 is poorly connected )
9fb580206b117b48…103ca2c2…2022-07-16 04:11:45 <signpost> which points self-chain at the questionable message that might've been hearsay or fake?
9bbd38e59fb58020…6b117b48…2022-07-16 04:12:58 <asciilifeform> aha, in principle oughta get the original eventually
cb581b1e9bbd38e5…419f882f…2022-07-16 04:13:22 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-16#1009777 << seems tangentially related to this discussion: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-08#1100602
570fe726cb581b1e…9fb58020…2022-07-16 04:12:55 <signpost> or udp gods sent that one to satan, get next message, meh.
3993401fcb581b1e…4a94edeb…2022-07-16 04:13:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-16 00:08:16 signpost: *you* don't have what to distinguish, but you'll have to be supplied it by who has in some form to know.
cf82f79e3993401f…9bbd38e5…2022-07-16 04:13:38 <asciilifeform> ( for this reason asciilifeform wondered whether makes any sense to, as in current spec, actually display hearsays from l1 folx )
01419c72cf82f79e…e2d94e11…2022-07-16 04:13:52 <signpost> inb4 "disregard that I suck cox" as codified message type.
e67552e101419c72…cf82f79e…2022-07-16 04:14:57 <asciilifeform> imho once we have full section 5 support, would make sense to nix hearsays purporting to come from l1 speakers
a22f9b46000000003a6be9b2…2022-07-16 04:12:12 <phf> i've given it thought, and i think you're overthinking it! :)
e2d94e1151c42b10…570fe726…2022-07-16 04:13:09 <signpost> or PROD arrives and I see you have a hash I don't know, and I GETDATA you for it?
dc5d6c9900000000a22f9b46…2022-07-16 04:13:28 <phf> i think it's a kind of useful property, where a casual bantz my arrive by various l1 - l2 paths, and you don't care that signpost's or whatever message, within context, arrived once or twice via asciilifeform. but if signpost were to suddenly proclaim the love of cocks, and it's not from his direct station, i might ask him
de38c3960000000051c42b10…2022-07-16 04:15:45 <phf> right. i want my comms to carry signal, and give me some guarantees, i don't want the gurantees to bulet proof hide underlying behavior in the attempt to protect me from potential abuse
db6ba889de38c396…55142be9…2022-07-16 04:15:48 <asciilifeform> atm displaying'em gives ~some~ means to talk from behind nat gnarl
425d7b649d72faf2…db6ba889…2022-07-16 04:17:35 <asciilifeform> after s.5 support worx, will be at least impossible for l2+ speaker to impersonate yer l1. which is enuff imho, to live with
dc80d45600000000de38c396…2022-07-16 04:17:28 <phf> this goes back to “why pest” conversation from a while ago, with whatshisname. the point would be that, unlike e.g telegram where illusion of security actually masks over all kinds of dodgy behavior, you get a set of transparent behaviors that a skillfull operator can interpret correctly and precisely as far as their m
ec1019d0000000009d72faf2…2022-07-16 04:19:12 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-slime-say-2.png i find this to be highly entertaining :D
b4fbd98ff87038ea…f87038ea…2022-07-16 04:20:06 <asciilifeform> phf: do you actually own a b&w display or simply emacs knobs ?
d91ce698b4fbd98f…b4fbd98f…2022-07-16 04:20:45 asciilifeform sat for rather long time on actual b&w 'eizo', made for radiologists, 'from back of truck'(tm). a++ contrast, never again seen anyffin like it
a471aa4300000000ec1019d0…2022-07-16 04:20:50 <phf> i set my terms to vt100, which tends to disable colors in most civilized cli software (uncivilized requires further intervention)
919dd2d500000000a471aa43…2022-07-16 04:21:27 <phf> i bought that radiologist eizo in russia, unfortunately still haven't bothered to ship it
e1fb6002919dd2d5…3934bab2…2022-07-16 04:21:33 <asciilifeform> was a++ nifty thing, tho, iirc 24 bits of greyscale dac
54bb115100000000919dd2d5…2022-07-16 04:22:48 <phf> i think color in computing is mostly overrated :D video games and photos. i kind of like how genera did it™ out of necessity: a b&w work terminal and a separate color output display
3a155aeb54bb1151…ebfbce39…2022-07-16 04:23:14 asciilifeform went back to 'emacs in borland nostalgic palette' , today still in it
1c46c1383a155aeb…3a155aeb…2022-07-16 04:23:46 <asciilifeform> nuffin beats dedicated b&w thing for text contrast tho, likely ever
9fdf25351c46c138…1c46c138…2022-07-16 04:24:21 <asciilifeform> for asciilifeform issue was the blinding white in night hours
c54c0ff00000000090631e7f…2022-07-16 04:24:58 <phf> one day we're going to have those fast refresh eink displays. any day now. two more weeks.
8f320941c54c0ff0…d1cf72e0…2022-07-16 04:25:05 asciilifeform fave display was ancient ibm terminal, green
7788ec2d8f320941…8f320941…2022-07-16 04:25:26 <asciilifeform> phf: lolyes. asciilifeform last yr in fact bought 'dasung', barfed after coupla min, sold
1ef8dee97788ec2d…7788ec2d…2022-07-16 04:25:48 <asciilifeform> the vendor royally fucked it, visual artifact fuzz on erry box connected it to
c9de00551ef8dee9…1ef8dee9…2022-07-16 04:26:06 <asciilifeform> (suspect -- as cost of getting even the ~10hz refresh)
3c7a0a7ec9de0055…c9de0055…2022-07-16 04:26:35 <asciilifeform> and wasn't simply the 'miserasure' artifacts. actually showed dynamic snow where grey oughta be
dda1bb873c7a0a7e…3c7a0a7e…2022-07-16 04:27:07 <asciilifeform> was roughly the size of an a4, too, which is imho rather miniature
894acd25dda1bb87…dda1bb87…2022-07-16 04:27:42 <asciilifeform> vendor not lied -- 'you can play doom'
bada12c4a24643b5…7ff619d7…2022-07-16 04:28:25 asciilifeform found experience reminiscent of 'quake' on 486dx2
80f5fc24af36850d…af36850d…2022-07-16 04:30:57 asciilifeform would buy a 21in 'green' tube with slow luminophor, if such thing existed...
3c974eb180f5fc24…80f5fc24…2022-07-16 04:31:46 asciilifeform cursed with seeing flicker even at 150+hz on regular crt
a0fa471400000000a24643b5…2022-07-16 04:32:12 <phf> men of knowledge of the future will glass blow own b&w cathode ray tubes
af85ac4800000000a0fa4714…2022-07-16 04:32:41 <phf> “these chines retina projects just don't have sufficient refresh rate for REAL WORK”
e8605fda0000000050631eae…2022-07-16 05:14:31 <phf> and if y'all thought ‘say’ was ghetto, here's how not to do nick completion: (loop for p being each packet do (intern (string-upcase (red-packet-speaker p)) :cl-user))
66f4b7b6e8605fda…cb581b1e…2022-07-16 14:55:24 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-16#1009752 << height of rudeness. Emperically though this happens on Twitter (or used to) where two accounts with a largely disjoint audience start a thread.
07ff60d966f4b7b6…3993401f…2022-07-16 14:55:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-16 00:02:20 asciilifeform[billymg|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009735 << nah. by analogy with stellar novae -- fusion can getcha a larger-than-ideal net, which will then frag
a383f3d3b03c6473…b03c6473…2022-07-16 15:00:05 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-15#1009741 << good point
156e4bdda383f3d3…07ff60d9…2022-07-16 15:00:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-15 23:51:11 signpost: would be nice to build such that eat-the-world is possible, even while avoiding the hubris of expecting to.
c0c5e57d156e4bdd…a383f3d3…2022-07-16 15:20:06 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-16#1009826 << at one point I had a wyse terminal (monochrome orange) set up in my dorm room
2052656fc0c5e57d…156e4bdd…2022-07-16 15:20:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-16 00:25:14 asciilifeform[billymg|signpost]: fave display was ancient ibm terminal, green
e5ffa9b11733a7f4…099f99a2…2022-07-16 18:05:00 <whaack> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009379 << i really enjoy this genre and specifically this mix you posted, plz post more
88a3658be5ffa9b1…2052656f…2022-07-16 18:05:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 09:21:38 crtdaydreams[billymg]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zGaTE2AmsU
56f01f6f00000000099f99a2…2022-07-17 19:51:34 <phf> billymg: my multipeer is not implemented yet. i'll reach out to everyone whose keys i don't have as soon as it's operational. i've mostly just didn't have time to hack…
c613de441ac16615…86a8ab2a…2022-07-18 00:41:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009877 << ty, added
56ab7827c613de44…f4d55d64…2022-07-18 00:41:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 15:32:51 billymg: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=uKlq
b13baa9256ab7827…c613de44…2022-07-18 00:42:23 asciilifeform still wishes there were a way to issue % cmds to a bot w/out unplugging its irc end
6bebbe50b13baa92…ec8c947c…2022-07-18 00:52:30 <billymg> awt: indeed showing you as directly peered with bitbot now: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009895
9832b45a6bebbe50…56ab7827…2022-07-18 00:49:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 18:01:58 awt: billymg: successfully peered with your bots thx
799aa4b59832b45a…6bebbe50…2022-07-18 00:53:00 <billymg> asciilifeform: for some reason you're now showing up in the logs as hearsay: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009898
9cce6f7e799aa4b5…9832b45a…2022-07-18 00:50:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 20:42:33 asciilifeform[5]: still wishes there were a way to issue % cmds to a bot w/out unplugging its irc end
d048b8609cce6f7e…799aa4b5…2022-07-18 00:55:44 <billymg> happened somewhere between these two messages: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-02#1008220 http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-04#1008290
6179d851d048b860…9cce6f7e…2022-07-18 00:52:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-02 19:30:38 asciilifeform: lol
c699783e6179d851…6179d851…2022-07-18 00:52:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-04 11:18:10 asciilifeform[billymg|signpost]: billymg: asciilifeform only hosted with ukrs once before; your mileage may vary
9178d84a00000000c613de44…2022-07-18 03:23:36 <phf> i suspect if one's keeping a set of "canonical" packets, one ought to replace slowly replace ones if higher bounce with lower bounce, until one gets a 0 bounce, which implies direct, authorative communication
bcbfd7b300000000a35ef511…2022-07-18 03:25:40 <phf> but i suspect blatta doesn't have a mechanism like that, or even if it does the irc nature of the irc compatible version of protocol means that packet traveling faster/shorter path will win, as far as representative packet
46af19fe00000000bcbfd7b3…2022-07-18 03:27:26 <phf> so if you have a faster packet path that goes through intermediaries, than direct from originating station, you'll end up with "hearsay" packets for things that you might've gotten direct few us later
7bd21b2b46af19fe…b13baa92…2022-07-18 03:28:28 <asciilifeform> phf: see 4.4.4.2.2 re how this (is supposed to) work
db94144b8692339f…8692339f…2022-07-18 03:31:05 <asciilifeform> tldr, hearsays are interned to give 1) hearsays with lower 'bounce' 2) immediate copies -- a chance to be received; then 'canonical' msg is either the subset of hearsay copy(s) with min. bounce, or the immediate (if the latter was received during the embargo interval)
be05e315361374c6…db94144b…2022-07-18 03:32:08 <asciilifeform> on top of this, nuffin (per spec) is bounced to any place from where was already received; nor is anyffin but the min-bounce copy relayed
ed281fb3be05e315…be05e315…2022-07-18 03:32:31 <asciilifeform> in theory, gives 'least surprising' propagation behaviour.
fab34ab7ed281fb3…ed281fb3…2022-07-18 03:33:22 <asciilifeform> ... whether blatta 100% behaves as described in link, asciilifeform presently cannot say, still in the process of making sense of the src
6bdb8f9d00000000361374c6…2022-07-18 03:35:27 <phf> do you know what Te values is in blatta? it's essentially a lower bound on hello-yes-hello roundtrip
8f8077ea6bdb8f9d…fab34ab7…2022-07-18 03:35:53 asciilifeform not recalls; q for awt ^ when he wakes up
8bf70dbf000000006bdb8f9d…2022-07-18 03:36:27 <phf> also am i reading this right, one doesn't really see a message earlier than Te seconds after receipt?
499799c28bf70dbf…8f8077ea…2022-07-18 03:36:44 <asciilifeform> phf: is only round-trip lower bound on hearsays tho
796ccad566f4ab46…66f4ab46…2022-07-18 03:37:21 <asciilifeform> immediates and directs are considered prima facie authentic and forwarded to console (per spec) right away
fb529865796ccad5…796ccad5…2022-07-18 03:38:06 <asciilifeform> (there's 0 reason to intern an immediate or direct msg)
c471463e000000008bf70dbf…2022-07-18 03:38:10 <phf> right, but also thread started because i was considering unequal packet travel times
b56083ca1032a5ff…1032a5ff…2022-07-18 03:38:59 <asciilifeform> it aint uncommon for a hearsay copy to arrive coupla 100 msec prior to original (immediate) copy
348faa9a5989102b…5989102b…2022-07-18 03:39:43 <asciilifeform> receiver does not know when (or if) original will arrive, hence after Te elapses, will treat msg as hearsay
50f446e5348faa9a…348faa9a…2022-07-18 03:40:03 <asciilifeform> in principle, in a dedicated client, oughta retro the db if receive immed. copy at some future time
ee7036a100000000c471463e…2022-07-18 03:40:12 <phf> also kind of neat because in non-spec compliant non-irc version Te is only relevant for retransmit. can e.g. render hearsay right away, mark it direct once that information is available…
ee0ac1f06b418204…6b418204…2022-07-18 03:40:48 <asciilifeform> irc oughta be an annex to spec, rather than in spec proper, iirc already mentioned this notion
337f41f5ee0ac1f0…ee0ac1f0…2022-07-18 03:41:16 <asciilifeform> phf's thing afaik is the 1st 'general purpose' client w/out ircism
0dd47abc337f41f5…337f41f5…2022-07-18 03:43:31 <asciilifeform> good % of gnarl in current spec comes outta the constraint where db is considered 'write once'
34a857fc4504bbdc…4504bbdc…2022-07-18 03:44:59 <asciilifeform> tbf, would be surprised if with any regularity the immediate in fact dun make it to receiver within a reasonable (e.g. 1s) Te
d1ad70e117f36bb0…17f36bb0…2022-07-18 03:46:02 <asciilifeform> (in certain cases, elementarily, none of'em make it, in e.g. the case of a transmitter whose cable had been uplugged while he was sending)
1744e4f100000000ee7036a1…2022-07-18 03:47:31 <phf> proper pest of course ought to keep a running p on counterparty's avg roundtrip by running stats on past packet information :>
97c193a41744e4f1…d1ad70e1…2022-07-18 03:54:08 <asciilifeform> phf: not that it wouldn't be interesting, but not clear to asciilifeform what if anyffin machine oughta do with this stat other than to display it on req. of operator
cff8af89000000001744e4f1…2022-07-18 03:56:21 <phf> i should probably add /me… btw that's the case where irc spec full on leaks into pest: messages arrive as ^AACTION foo^A
f59fd2160000000042febf8b…2022-07-18 03:58:46 <phf> lol, this is actually a glitch http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009945
166c6e59f59fd216…c699783e…2022-07-18 03:58:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 23:56:32 phf[awt]: foo^A
1e7e3f2200000000f59fd216…2022-07-18 03:59:25 <phf> full message was “i should probably add /me… btw that's the case where irc spec full on leaks into pest: messages arrive as _^_A_ACTION foo_^_A_” but without the underscore
e6c1d076000000001e7e3f22…2022-07-18 03:59:53 <phf> full message was “i should probably add /me… btw that's the case where irc spec full on leaks into pest: messages arrive as _^_A_ACT_ION foo_^_A_” but without the underscore
c165ef8e00000000f9b61eff…2022-07-18 04:02:08 <phf> i don't know why that's the case but simply putting the word action in uppercase into message renders it as /me on both logs. that shouldn't really be the case, since it also needs to be wrapped with ^A...^A
674127537b174f25…3d0c7228…2022-07-18 13:58:05 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009882 << added
6f75652967412753…166c6e59…2022-07-18 14:00:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 15:34:55 billymg: PeterL: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=D4Fz
bc954d616f756529…1ac16615…2022-07-18 14:37:03 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-17#1009909 << see short_buffer.py line 14 for this logic in blatta
811512dfbc954d61…6f756529…2022-07-18 14:37:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-17 23:25:51 phf[awt]: but i suspect blatta doesn't have a mechanism like that, or even if it does the irc nature of the irc compatible version of protocol means that packet traveling faster/shorter path will win, as far as representative packet
094bbf54000000007b174f25…2022-07-18 14:53:09 <phf> awt: aye, i figured after asciilifeform showed me the relevant part of the spec that blatta in fact does
5aa5502b00000000f47efbc2…2022-07-18 15:17:33 <phf> awt: i don't remember canonical source on this, but if you e.g. search this document for the word action https://raw.githubusercontent.com/grawity/irc-docs/master/client/CTCP/ctcp.txt
a298f219000000005aa5502b…2022-07-18 15:19:09 <phf> from document “\001A_CTION barfs on the floor.\001” (without the underscore) is the canonical action format
a638157000000000a298f219…2022-07-18 15:21:48 <phf> there's also a section called TAGGED DATA, which introduces this idea that something like action is called tagged data, “To send extended data inside the middle level message, we need some way to delimit it. This is done by starting and ending extended data with a delimiter character, defined as: X-DELIM ::= '\001'”
91a6cea600000000a6381570…2022-07-18 15:22:37 <phf> Extended data is only valid in PRIVMSG and NOTICE commands.
7452cbdc0000000091a6cea6…2022-07-18 15:22:58 <phf> anyway, simply grepping for capitalized action is definitely not the correct behavior
4aaad9699c756e73…cc06daf9…2022-07-18 15:25:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-18#1009950 << very good point; tho debateable how much leaks, from pestronic pov msg payload is simply a text, can contain just about anything (per spec must utf8-decode w/out eggogs, but otherwise unconstrained)
fa3b34e74aaad969…811512df…2022-07-18 15:25:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-18 00:00:03 phf[awt]: full message was “i should probably add /me… btw that's the case where irc spec full on leaks into pest: messages arrive as _^_A_ACT_ION foo_^_A_” but without the underscore
dc39f90ffa3b34e7…422454c6…2022-07-18 15:25:25 <awt> phf: not clear exactly what's going on in blatta, or what weechat is sending in for /me messages. I'll check it out.
56d72f72000000009c756e73…2022-07-18 15:25:53 <phf> awt: weechat is conformant with what i said above
b4f5920ed50a7ea1…d50a7ea1…2022-07-18 15:51:44 <awt> looks like blatta puts u'\x01ACTION tests stuff\x01' into the pest packet body. Doesn't grep for ACTION -- possibly loggers do
7b4891e60000000056d72f72…2022-07-18 15:55:14 <phf> awt: word, that's what it looks like. i see valid action data come in, and i saw your last message alright, but it's garbled in both loggers
11b5e19b7b4891e6…984768e7…2022-07-18 16:01:10 <signpost> https://archive.ph/oVD0D << nord stream's off indefinitely.
0e7fb35411b5e19b…11b5e19b…2022-07-18 16:02:21 <signpost> hats off to russia; while the "west" has been twisting its nipples about whether there will be a traditional war in europe, russia's been winning the hybrid war.
e381228d000000007b4891e6…2022-07-18 16:30:05 <phf> just more of russian propaganda. ghost of kiev will save germany
a53a684a0b2e976d…b4f5920e…2022-07-18 16:36:30 awt likes rooting for the underdog - may have to start supporting the GAE
ead66568dc645290…0b2e976d…2022-07-18 16:55:05 asciilifeform also not sees hieroglyps in console. pity, prolly lulzy
a4e40c2e19b74fc9…0e7fb354…2022-07-18 17:05:54 <signpost> got this image in mind of a screeching woman disappointed that she wasn't important enough to hit.
f08f5abe855fa75e…8ed93531…2022-07-18 17:11:50 <signpost> regarding nato's self-importance, and the rest of the world moving on.
1c557701c543fcf9…c543fcf9…2022-07-18 17:22:11 signpost picked up Unrestricted Warfare, if anyone's curious how long the Chinese have had the USA's number.
a0d3af0e1c557701…1c557701…2022-07-18 17:22:50 <signpost> translation of cn mil docs from 99 on hybrid warfare strategy against US.
062da25fa0d3af0e…00fb58d2…2022-07-18 17:23:37 asciilifeform chronically lulz at notion of 'anglo vs cn wars' given the two decades already where the former surrendered ~all of their industry to the latter
a06d1773a0d3af0e…a0d3af0e…2022-07-18 17:23:37 <signpost> if anybody recs a russian perspective on same, would gladly read.
421bdc56062da25f…a06d1773…2022-07-18 17:24:30 signpost probably paraphrasing, but recalls mp telling me "you have no idea just how far the US has yet to fall"
2a6b6ed7421bdc56…062da25f…2022-07-18 17:54:53 <asciilifeform> signpost: considering that current-day ru (as well as good % of east nato reich) still runs mostly on sov-era infrastructure -- indeed slow fall
a16547ac00000000855fa75e…2022-07-19 00:13:19 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-18#1111752 <<
a68aa17ca16547ac…fa3b34e7…2022-07-19 00:13:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-18 asciilifeform: ... identifies as 'home', again, ye olde su, and not usa, where was moved like suitcase, nor any of the bantustans which presently squat on the map where su usedto be
f78d83f700000000a16547ac…2022-07-19 00:13:52 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-18#1111752 << так ты за спартак или за динамо??
396518cef78d83f7…a68aa17c…2022-07-19 00:14:03 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-18 asciilifeform: ... identifies as 'home', again, ye olde su, and not usa, where was moved like suitcase, nor any of the bantustans which presently squat on the map where su usedto be
e107c9476a30e711…6a30e711…2022-07-19 00:14:50 asciilifeform had to look in www log to get the orcograms, grr, gotta utfize the console 1 of these days
000ffa3900000000f78d83f7…2022-07-19 00:16:51 <phf> you can also do (standard-display-cyrillic-translit)
c200f5e14298662a…4d38c41f…2022-07-19 00:18:43 asciilifeform prolly the 'odd man out' in re 'live in emacs'
12707e11c200f5e1…c200f5e1…2022-07-19 00:19:31 <asciilifeform> historically, asciilifeform only emacses when 'nuffin else will do', always 'felt slow' vs e.g. naked xterms
52be4fed000000004298662a…2022-07-19 00:19:36 <phf> oh i think it's in the logs that i hate emacs and refuse to use it for anything but slime (and even then begrudgingly)
8f6b567126b85f10…26b85f10…2022-07-19 00:20:15 <asciilifeform> proposition 'live in emacs'(tm) sorta feels like 'drive bulldozer errywhere, incl. to buy milk'
baa900320000000052be4fed…2022-07-19 00:21:35 <phf> i had this massive revelation at some point, that lisp machines weren't actually living in emacs. zwei&co were just apps, to a particular and idiosyncratic tv toolkit, but a toolkit never the less
e309525bbaa90032…8f6b5671…2022-07-19 00:22:03 <asciilifeform> imho is a marvel how emacs on (even very fast) x86 still manages to 'feel slow'
7d470bafe309525b…e309525b…2022-07-19 00:22:44 <asciilifeform> oddly enuff, as described in ^ , zwei on 4mhz bolix dun 'feel slow'
9853de1600000000baa90032…2022-07-19 00:23:48 <phf> emacs got hit by wreckers, like everything else. i dropped out around the time when they “deprecated cl package!11” in favor of modern™ and modular™ cl-lib. main improvement of cl-lib is that all the cl symbols are mandatory prefixed by cl-
ea090f929853de16…7d470baf…2022-07-19 00:24:07 <asciilifeform> (well not really 'oddly', zwei didn't include an (inept, bog-slow) emulation of a half-remembered lispm)
c566c813000000009853de16…2022-07-19 00:25:03 <phf> there was a brief period even when cl symbols weren't recognized by lazylock, even if you had (require 'cl) or whatever. such underhanded nanny state behavior
f79a2e7fc566c813…ea090f92…2022-07-19 00:25:38 <asciilifeform> difficult to deny that emacs was 'stolen by wreckers' but also must note, 'felt slow'(tm) even before, imho
5285185700000000c566c813…2022-07-19 00:25:47 <phf> that was also around the time that emacs started getting all kinds of modernizations and improvements and such. so never had a chance to “be fast”
599ab95b4af05a1f…4af05a1f…2022-07-19 00:26:29 <asciilifeform> otherwise difficult to picture how proggy that felt 'just a little too slow' on pen1 and equally nao on 'threadripper'
8acd03ff0000000052851857…2022-07-19 00:27:36 <phf> i think there must've been some kind of emacs sweet spot. i think around the time that i picked it up for slime (was an nvi user before), 2007 or so, it was quite zippy. obv never as fast as nvi..
38205651b2cdc967…b2cdc967…2022-07-19 00:44:30 asciilifeform not has orcogramator working in weechat, but hey, truu ukr oughta latin1 !
9ca4938a0000000032fe68cf…2022-07-22 01:18:31 <phf> nature abhors a vacuum, it fills it with idiocy. rip #asciilifeform
251800f5000000005532e582…2022-07-22 01:38:04 <phf> was immediately filled by a person who was not previously engaged.
5532e582000000009ca4938a…2022-07-22 01:38:04 <phf> jonsykkel: i don't actually intend for my statement to be a kind of flowery condemntation, i more than anything find the truth of it to be /curious/. i'm not otherwise willing to engage in a debate over what constitutes idiocy. and the curious part is that the void of the general shift of focus was not just left untouched,
a4b0e2e10000000076b4f36d…2022-07-22 01:56:34 <phf> ff. vague, high level truisms, that are part of collective consensus that everyone knows, but which fall apart upon closer inspection.
76b4f36d00000000e0aeb58d…2022-07-22 01:56:34 <phf> of a chore, which is the last reasonable time to reflet on s/n, and possible disengage: "why am i reading this again?" etc. what prompted this reflection is in my opinion a completely 0/n exchange over relative merits of language families, which was of reddit tier "italians like pasta and germans like sausages" kind of stu
e0aeb58d00000000251800f5…2022-07-22 01:56:34 <phf> idiocy is not necessarily a result of individuals being idiots, it's the proverbial signal to noise ratio, which is often an explicit cultural group thing. sometimes you read something and decide that you've gained nothing from reading it, eventually, if it's a property of some particular source, reading it becomes a kind
2b11c1e900000000097b03a4…2022-07-22 02:02:18 <phf> en if one wanted to write it in different style. a python written by functional programmer exhibit more down-right properties. etc. etc. etc.
aa4f3c912b11c1e9…a0339aaa…2022-07-22 02:06:26 <asciilifeform> hmm oddly enuff seeing phf as hearsay (via jonsykkel) nao
a303ac30cfb83104…f4295686…2022-07-22 02:07:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-21#1010175 << as old hands walk over to pestnet, #a will inevitably become a kind of kindergarten for n00bs / 'not previously engaged' folx, yes
06dfca78a303ac30…5b604a86…2022-07-22 02:07:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-21 21:38:18 phf[jonsykkel]: was immediately filled by a person who was not previously engaged.
097b03a4000000005b196184…2022-07-22 02:02:18 <phf> even go full cadr "system", which is written like (defvar var 1) (defvar var2) (defun foo () (setq var1 ...)). so you're kind of conflating culture, and style, and language properties, to express sentiments about things, that everyone knows already. algols being worse at bound contexts one is stuck with mostly mutation, ev
5b19618400000000a4b0e2e1…2022-07-22 02:02:18 <phf> there's nothing inherent lisp that makes it down-right, except for modern stylistic preference for bound contexts over mutation. common lisp being a maclisp derivative one can still freely write a close to single level state machine, just nobody does. (defun foo (&aux var var2) (setq var 2) (setq var2 (expt var 1024))) or
9e8c93e1000000002b11c1e9…2022-07-22 02:08:14 <phf> asciilifeform: machine's been down for a couple of days, but i'm connected through awt at the moment. i switch back and forth between you and awt, whenever respective stations go down.
2928bf619cef8d8d…b7d5d8cc…2023-06-29 19:36:39 <awt_akris> With latest GetData config, sync finished in ~ 2 hrs (including various unrelated restarts) and I'm only missing like 1.5k out of 24k messages. Best sync yet. Previous sync I only got like %50 of the messages on my main station.
4fc2516c2928bf61…172a40da…2023-06-29 20:25:38 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: why were they missing? ( thing not had repeat of getdata just yet ? or actually kept trying but never saw'em? )
e08bd60a0e180b00…0e180b00…2022-07-22 02:09:17 <asciilifeform> ( in principle if both 'up', and peered -- which asciilifeform / phf were -- oughta see immed. msg always )
1dd33acd4fc2516c…2928bf61…2023-06-29 20:28:52 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: Not sure why they're missing. Tries are set to 2. Currently there are 20 items in asked_for that have exceeded GetDataTries.
897a01fc4777cb4b…354b5ae8…2023-06-30 14:44:41 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
f8242b860ca5ca4f…0ca5ca4f…2022-07-22 02:10:06 <asciilifeform> ~that~ makes sense, atm dulapbot peered only w/ 1) asciilifeform 2) bitbot
b7abda87000000006a0dd9e7…2022-07-22 02:10:47 <phf> ah ok, i thought you were giving dulapbot peerings to l1
4c6c69d4b7abda87…cfb83104…2022-07-22 02:10:54 <awt> perhaps phf means phf's machine has been down a few days, not asciilifeform's or awt's
e1b792e8691d4375…634ca10e…2022-07-22 02:11:36 asciilifeform expects this kinda thing will evaporate when we have sect.5 mechanism
d4ff830100000000691d4375…2022-07-22 02:12:20 <phf> i should stop yoloing and get one of them ups's.. electric's been going down for 1-5 minutes each day for the past week
356cb378d4ff8301…e1b792e8…2022-07-22 02:13:20 <asciilifeform> phf: can get surprisingly large ups for next to nuffin if yer willing to rebattery it. ( and if yer shithole has brownouts -- and where doesn't? -- be sure to get 'double-converting' type )
1e42f081356cb378…356cb378…2022-07-22 02:14:14 asciilifeform recs 'liebert gxt4' with the expander chassis (and the nic)
f8eb4ee800000000d4ff8301…2022-07-22 02:14:26 <phf> yah, our common bolix friend taught me the way of "cheap ups that you rebattery", i'm just being lazy
c1464169f8eb4ee8…1e42f081…2022-07-22 02:15:14 asciilifeform had it wired directly to $room in new pad
1af435dac1464169…c1464169…2022-07-22 02:16:05 <asciilifeform> 1 'gxt4' + 1 expander is justenuff to cover time req'd to change oil in the generator, coincidentally
af46d5631af435da…1af435da…2022-07-22 02:16:25 <asciilifeform> ( thing wants oil erry ~100hr , per vendor spec )
4933df4b0000000078130f3e…2022-07-22 02:17:28 <phf> how much would you say is a spent liebert gxt4 for reference?
90e2d753eae8ee59…eae8ee59…2022-07-22 02:18:14 <asciilifeform> had to get the rails elsewhere tho, for sumreason nobody ever includes'em
a3f6455eacb183e4…acb183e4…2022-07-22 02:18:50 <asciilifeform> the nic is a bit hard to find, there are several types that fit the socket but dun work correctly
4d32542ba3f6455e…a3f6455e…2022-07-22 02:19:09 <asciilifeform> it aint entirely essential tho, can talk to the thing via rs232
6cb3b8bb4d32542b…4d32542b…2022-07-22 02:19:20 <asciilifeform> ( and it has a little screen with stats )
2faccb076cb3b8bb…6cb3b8bb…2022-07-22 02:19:44 <asciilifeform> 'gxt2' ( asciilifeform had for ~7y ) was very similar but w/out screen, just had 4 '%' lamps
c4e00d9a000000007f76f231…2022-07-22 02:19:52 <phf> i have a generator rigged into switchboard, but i haven't bothered to make it automatic, mostly because when i do need it, i adjust the load accordingly first
fd830450c4e00d9a…2faccb07…2022-07-22 02:20:21 <asciilifeform> is helpful if you occasionally leave the house and dun like to find yer irons reset when come back
65586317fd830450…fd830450…2022-07-22 02:20:36 asciilifeform bought the place with the autoswitcher and gen already there
6569f62a884945de…884945de…2022-07-22 02:22:02 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform has nfi who had the thing installed & precisely why
e3df83f96569f62a…6569f62a…2022-07-22 02:22:23 <asciilifeform> seller had only dim idea re what it was
b6c581a200000000313112b9…2022-07-22 02:23:27 <phf> asciilifeform modern day brahmin is more like cloud people paper pushers, so yes. but come to think of it, i should've called it "babu housing", would've been sharper edge :p
99d6f6cc4a085337…4a085337…2022-07-22 02:24:10 <asciilifeform> ( tho asciilifeform moar often associates gensets w/ industrial wastelands , they aint esp. common around here in civilian house )
3c4d282600000000b6c581a2…2022-07-22 02:26:27 <phf> one of my coworkers likes flipping x million dollar houses, so i've seen all kinds of infrastructure. smart houses with cat6 cabling for everything and beautiful racking/fallback generators, more than once
7fb1ed15058c2e5c…87421d43…2022-07-22 02:27:17 asciilifeform not lives in 'oligarch palace' nor near any, but seen
3000514e00000000058c2e5c…2022-07-22 02:28:09 <phf> these also come with abandoned "crypto" mining rigs. TWO houses that he bought and sold had mining rigs in the basement, still operational, left by owner
d038e41d3000514e…7fb1ed15…2022-07-22 02:28:14 <asciilifeform> fortunately dun need to be oligarch to run cat6, or put in genset, etc
d396154d000000003000514e…2022-07-22 02:29:57 <phf> i suspect that they discover that their amateur yield barelly covers the cost of running the full set of their smart lights or whatever
2f7eea5ed396154d…74c19377…2022-07-22 02:30:13 asciilifeform tip to folx running tubular conduit : dun ever count on being able to remove or move a cable after pulling it through
e1cc1e732f7eea5e…2f7eea5e…2022-07-22 02:30:34 asciilifeform tore 3 rather costly display<->fiber gizmos in half
f00d2a7f35043b54…e1cc1e73…2022-07-22 02:36:32 <asciilifeform> phf: y'know, those grey plastic pipes you see at dc's & 'to code' industrial shitholes
5a8ad446f00d2a7f…f00d2a7f…2022-07-22 02:37:14 <asciilifeform> notion being, you wanna run dozen cables, and not have to individually thread each through ceilings/floors & nail it
47bc2aba0000000035043b54…2022-07-22 02:37:34 <phf> "code"? sounds like some kind of goberment fascism to me
c1716b8c47bc2aba…5a8ad446…2022-07-22 02:37:48 <asciilifeform> ( additional n00b notion being 'hey i can pull'em out later if i need' but mnope )
ff42355a0000000047bc2aba…2022-07-22 02:38:32 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-21#1010247 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drRzgkI6Qm8
2e91dfe8ff42355a…06dfca78…2022-07-22 02:38:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-21 22:37:47 phf[awt]: "code"? sounds like some kind of goberment fascism to me
b28a3fd22e91dfe8…c1716b8c…2022-07-22 02:38:57 <asciilifeform> phf: not all 'fire code' is idjit fascism, e.g. the edict against running hv intertangled w/ cat6 is born from bitter experience
7ce8a224b28a3fd2…b28a3fd2…2022-07-22 02:40:30 <asciilifeform> granted you can do it, and gestapo won't come, simply yer insurance co will die of laffter when yer hut burns and they're asked to pay
aea079157ce8a224…7ce8a224…2022-07-22 02:41:25 asciilifeform recalls a hilarious www of 'code, wat code' collection where e.g. extension cords run in walls, etc, sadly can't find
fae3a30caea07915…aea07915…2022-07-22 02:42:43 <asciilifeform> iirc had e.g. garden hoses run as substitute for actual plumbing ('hey i wanted a sink there') & similar own-goals
71a57f2600000000eb2c000b…2022-07-22 02:43:49 <phf> to mud the same access point every time, or try to pull through a 2" hole. it's a necessary property of having to e.g. treat the wood, or chase the squirels out or whatever
26237662df54637b…df54637b…2022-07-22 02:45:03 asciilifeform got 1 with 'hey, tile ceiling, easy' then only to find that the tiles, superficially 'dc style', are ~nailed~ in place, and crumble at slightest touch, lol
7f5d171426237662…26237662…2022-07-22 02:46:05 asciilifeform hadn't the slightest suspicion that anyone would go through the bother of building the tile support grid to then ~nail~'em, lol
eb2c000b00000000ff42355a…2022-07-22 02:43:49 <phf> asciilifeform i jest. out here in the deplorables land housing, specifically the kind that's been last owned by grownups, who now want to move to old people's home, or small apartments or whatever, tends to have multiple easy access points to behind the drywall, so you can run your cabling wherever you want, without having
efb962c00000000071a57f26…2022-07-22 02:46:10 <phf> we've been idly looking at houses, and you can always see when "city folk's been here", bought for flipping or airbnb or "summer house", because that's the ones where you can't in fact go behind anything. "recently renovated" means some idiot has sealed a++ moisture gathering spots, because idiot
5db683b1efb962c0…7f5d1714…2022-07-22 02:46:45 <asciilifeform> the house equiv. of 'sawdust in gearbox' in used car world aha
982750d100000000efb962c0…2022-07-22 02:48:12 <phf> on the other hand if the house has "woodworking workshop" or similar on property, that means that there's not a single epxosed surface that you can't get to through some kind of vent, or cubby hole, or "storage closet" or crawlspace or whatever. "how will i fix her if the roof leaks???"
cc30eeff982750d1…5db683b1…2022-07-22 02:48:16 asciilifeform had builders for coupla things he didn't feel like doing himself, and lolled when these always ask 'yer tenants..' etc. assumption seems to be that nobody would actually buy box to ~live in~
127851f600000000d6489efd…2022-07-22 04:37:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-22#1112067 << get yourself a pest station
78281113127851f6…2e91dfe8…2022-07-22 04:37:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-22 vex: those rodeo boys on bucking broncos tho, that's a whole thought process
cbdc884c00000000127851f6…2022-07-22 04:41:23 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-22#1112067 << test
0eab0e9ecbdc884c…78281113…2022-07-22 04:41:36 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-22 vex: those rodeo boys on bucking broncos tho, that's a whole thought process
9500972f00000000de003ca1…2022-07-22 04:46:58 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-22#1010275 << http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-tk.png
db2fe89d9500972f…0eab0e9e…2022-07-22 04:47:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-22 00:42:06 phf[awt]: ha, another poc
5cc25506000000009500972f…2022-07-22 05:06:39 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-22#1112083 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qETWu34vmzA
86ca319f5cc25506…db2fe89d…2022-07-22 05:06:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-22 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQU1f_bgPFE
c4b651b9000000005cc25506…2022-07-22 05:38:10 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-22#1112084 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q-1Bpy168g
6c6d0aaac4b651b9…86ca319f…2022-07-22 05:38:24 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-22 vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzVNidi49Tk
cb8a646700000000c4b651b9…2022-07-22 05:46:14 <phf> girl djs are kind of a trope, but madame lens makes some really nice sets. she's in the same class as e.g. sonja moonear
156475c4d429dd53…cc30eeff…2022-07-22 14:15:26 <asciilifeform> ACHTUNG rack subscribers! loox like outage.
bf1ecc68156475c4…156475c4…2022-07-22 14:20:21 asciilifeform suspects backhoed fiber, their desk aint answering
f579ea15c91e3810…b581df9a…2022-07-22 14:26:30 <billymg> asciilifeform: looks ok overe here, i'm talking to you from that box atm
a7c8066cf579ea15…f579ea15…2022-07-22 14:31:31 <billymg> gregorynyssa: i added a blank entry for you with `/peer gregorynyssa`, seems to have added you to my nicklist at least
ec8b53c7a7c8066c…4c6c69d4…2022-07-22 14:35:14 <awt> phf: you can test with pestbot when nobody is around
7121174140058e39…40058e39…2022-07-22 15:45:31 <asciilifeform> billymg: seems that sumbody tripped over a cable, whole place was dead for ~hr, incl. phones
620df7e500000000d429dd53…2022-07-22 16:24:14 <phf> awt, yeah i know, but to paraphrase asciilifeform, “it's more phun to test with phriends”
7e377265620df7e5…5c4fac7e…2022-07-22 16:37:08 <shinohai> pestbot just DM'd me and said he is deeply troubled phf doesn't consider him a friend.
084c7110000000003246f1a9…2022-07-22 20:29:33 <phf> asciilifeform, have you thought about or are there any plans for file sharing features?
6783c3c3084c7110…71211741…2022-07-22 20:30:46 <asciilifeform> phf: signpost is working on a lubytronic file tx/rx
5445ae2700000000084c7110…2022-07-22 20:38:26 <phf> hmm, apparently tk doesn't have native drag and drop. sadness. was looking forward to sharing e.g. screenshots, by simply dragging them onto the app window…
be5cfc565445ae27…6783c3c3…2022-07-23 01:01:55 <asciilifeform> tk is rather barbaric, but beats the shit outta raw console and its spurious linebreaks in pastes etc
f14fb5fc00000000620df7e5…2022-07-23 02:33:14 <phf> but i'm not for example even sure how to use their text widget. it works great if you're just dumping a log, but once you need to rewrite past, now need to keep around some kind of secondary structure to know where regions start and end, so that you can go back and redo parts
4802789000000000204254ff…2022-07-25 14:12:22 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-25#1112217 << reddit knowledge is required to make online points, not actually make products
577ecaed48027890…508d1ee0…2022-07-25 14:12:25 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-25#1112212 << proper package support, for one thing. ( and e.g. ada's 'generic' package thing is useful, see example. ) but see also [https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/32335327
4cee641e0000000048027890…2022-07-25 14:15:14 <phf> hmm, strangely i didn't get dulapbot packet. possibly will arrive, but it's already been a minute and it's still not here
bc5f57cc000000004cee641e…2022-07-25 14:16:16 <phf> and now i'm getting a bunch of getdata packets (which i'm at the moment not responding to)
831ba2e900000000bc5f57cc…2022-07-25 14:19:05 <phf> i was unfortunately discarding them, and also not providing much detail, and by the time i patched, that's when the last message came in…
ebd75e1300000000dd973379…2022-07-25 14:22:35 <phf> lol and a few minutes later a dupe arrives of that same dulapbot packet
e2460b1100000000517a0762…2022-07-25 14:33:17 <phf> kind of wish for while we're exploring pest there was a "travel path" data in packets. like each hop adds itself to a list of stations
9b26afffe2460b11…204254ff…2022-07-25 14:52:02 <asciilifeform> phf: even if packets were somehow as large as one likes, rather than mtu-sized -- a principle of pestronics is that one doesn't necessarily have any biz knowing anyffin concrete about stations with whom not directly peered
62d111149b26afff…9b26afff…2022-07-25 14:53:12 <asciilifeform> the 1 concession in the current protocol is the bounce counter (which, observe, is entirely promisetronic, a defective or mischevious station could set it to whatever)
6dfcd93500000000e2460b11…2022-07-25 14:53:28 <phf> asciilifeform, that's why i said "while exploring", because we're at least for the next few months if not longer will be observing distributed emergent behaviors of pest stations, and while that's happening it would've been useful to have "debugging information"
3559dfc6eef08439…eef08439…2022-07-25 14:54:06 <asciilifeform> could approximate this by asking folx for debug log snippets (lemme know if need one)
bd6fc1a23559dfc6…3559dfc6…2022-07-25 14:54:28 <asciilifeform> iirc at one point awt had his 'live' to www
e340fb40000000006dfcd935…2022-07-25 14:54:57 <phf> well, the interesting question is probably "how did that packet end up here" at different times
d6c48eb6e340fb40…bd6fc1a2…2022-07-25 14:55:30 <asciilifeform> phf: as asciilifeform currently understands, 100% of the odd delays in messages currently are from hearsay buffering
663129b800000000e340fb40…2022-07-25 14:56:01 <phf> like for example why did i get a dupe of dulapbot packets. i'm only connected to one station, so that stations filtering ought to not retransmit
ce07d9e500000000663129b8…2022-07-25 14:56:34 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah, i figured it's hearsay, but why ~7 minute delay~. that's quite obv longer than hearsay spool
cb1d3984cbc2a3d1…04da0825…2022-07-25 14:57:12 <asciilifeform> aha, makes no obvious sense per asciilifeform's head model
6d3a3ba6cb1d3984…cb1d3984…2022-07-25 14:57:52 asciilifeform in experiments w/ udp, not found any instances of macroscopic propagation delay ( i.e. moar than one'd expect from 'ping time' ) from anywhere to anywhere
470df3016d3a3ba6…6d3a3ba6…2022-07-25 14:58:15 <asciilifeform> so logically this kinda thing has to be a blattaism
7088b63b470df301…706d608a…2022-07-25 15:56:48 <awt> I'm seeing this morning a large dump of old dulapbot log quote messages. Looks like somehow the clog was cleared.
962a2aaa7088b63b…7088b63b…2022-07-25 16:03:19 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-25#1010349 << how often are you getting dupes? Any shared characteristics of the dupes?
ab6899c4962a2aaa…6c6d0aaa…2022-07-25 16:03:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 10:56:15 phf[awt]: like for example why did i get a dupe of dulapbot packets. i'm only connected to one station, so that stations filtering ought to not retransmit
a0103029ab6899c4…962a2aaa…2022-07-25 16:07:37 <awt> Perhaps there's a case where a getdata response is received and rebroadcast multiple times before it makes it into the long buffer.
86d97e85a0103029…470df301…2022-07-25 16:40:53 asciilifeform neglected to nail this down in spec, but getdata responses ought not to be rebroadcast (and if they are currently being rebroadcast, oughtn't make it past stale filter, unless bug)
fbac4fd486d97e85…86d97e85…2022-07-25 16:43:14 <asciilifeform> a getdata response is only useful to the requester (others, who haven't asked for that msg to be replayed, have no way to distinguish it from enemy replay)
b301405ffbac4fd4…a0103029…2022-07-25 16:53:57 <awt> blatta marks "expected" messages aka getdata responses and at least tries not to rebroadcast them.
ecc40efbb301405f…fbac4fd4…2022-07-25 16:54:49 <asciilifeform> awt: seems that it'd be simple to unambiguously identify'em, neh
467af2baecc40efb…b301405f…2022-07-25 16:55:05 <awt> This message in particular was actually not a getdata response, come to think of it. Was just stuck in the order buffer for a while.
824290a2467af2ba…ecc40efb…2022-07-25 16:55:28 <asciilifeform> ( when requested, added to list; when received, is interned into db; and if recv'd again subseqently, marked dupe and similarly not rebroadcast )
eb8a8c7bd4933429…467af2ba…2022-07-25 16:58:42 <awt> no way to know right now if a) message somehow originated twice from dulapbot (unlikely) or b) broadcast from asciilifeform's station to some peer, then reflected back later to ...
a9e6e7857495fca1…7495fca1…2022-07-25 16:59:12 <awt> and somehow not yet in the long buffer at that point.
46c403d48abb0960…f1e064b6…2022-07-25 17:00:23 <asciilifeform> awt: peered w/ asciilifeform & billymg's 2 bots currently
8c89e0ae46c403d4…8abb0960…2022-07-25 17:02:02 <awt> ah ok so likely your station would have received a dupe via billymg or some other station.
cc2909bc8c89e0ae…46c403d4…2022-07-25 17:02:40 <asciilifeform> possibly, but dupes in theory oughta vanish rather than keep jumping
53bd77facc2909bc…cc2909bc…2022-07-25 17:03:21 <asciilifeform> the 1 case where not, is when 1) it aint a getdata response + 2) from receiver's pov it aint a dupe (1st time station sees $msg)
c11212b327fa06b2…efdbe765…2022-07-25 17:04:43 <awt> in this case the message was likely in the order buffer of all dulapbot peers for a while before being stored in the long buffer and rebroadcast.
8214f9ffc11212b3…c11212b3…2022-07-25 17:07:04 <awt> because either the self or net chain for that message was broken
989cf41800000000cbc2a3d1…2022-07-25 17:58:05 <phf> well, there's an obv failure point here (ignoring the whys and the hows of the original sin): awt's station rebroadcast same message twice and the delay between messages was >10m
a1627cce00000000989cf418…2022-07-25 17:59:05 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010586 << http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010568 that's the entirety of the story (i've seen dupes like that before, but this is first time i took note of it)
4f68bf9ca1627cce…577ecaed…2022-07-25 17:59:10 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 12:03:21 awt[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-25#1010349 << how often are you getting dupes? Any shared characteristics of the dupes?
d1d077544f68bf9c…4f68bf9c…2022-07-25 17:59:10 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 10:24:47 phf[asciilifeform]: http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-packets.png
04f54e194f68bf9c…ab6899c4…2022-07-25 17:59:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 10:56:15 phf[awt]: like for example why did i get a dupe of dulapbot packets. i'm only connected to one station, so that stations filtering ought to not retransmit
96135f3500000000a1627cce…2022-07-25 18:04:16 <phf> the weirdness i think is actually with dulapbot, because more often than not, when i send something that requires his response, i get a bunch of getdata messages
158eea7f0000000096135f35…2022-07-25 18:04:59 <phf> but i don't have any further insight into things. i'm mostly observing the state of pest net for my own benefit
71008d4f158eea7f…27fa06b2…2022-07-25 18:13:19 <asciilifeform> phf: dulapbot defo behaves peculiarly at times; less so nao than prev. when was only peered via asciilifeform
0dc69e9671008d4f…71008d4f…2022-07-25 18:13:34 <asciilifeform> but even nao periodically 'sits on' msgs for coupla min
b4bb32fc0dc69e96…0dc69e96…2022-07-25 18:14:10 asciilifeform still not instrumented own station to find why still periodically dies on utfism; tho, peculiarly, not seen this effect on dulapbot's
e3ea6e6e00000000158eea7f…2022-07-25 18:37:55 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-fonts-and-colors.png
9945c85795d3ae32…8214f9ff…2022-07-25 23:31:39 <awt> I probably won't spend too much time debugging this particular dupe, since it's related to the order buffer, which is slated for removal.
709be1650000000000000000…2022-07-26 02:24:02 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-25#1112234 << it only makes sense for their to be a control message that announces data, an equivalent of a torrent record, that allows to initiate a transfer mechanism that's otherwise completely different from pest broadcast operation
0c4f7567709be165…d1d07754…2022-07-26 02:24:05 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-25 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: signpost did not yet post his scheme, but asciilifeform assumed that transfer would begin with e.g. a series of (chained) msgs giving hashes of, say, 1MB slices. then transfer 1 at a time
1ee21231d98c53f3…d98c53f3…2022-07-26 02:25:27 <asciilifeform> phf: given that luby convergence aint deterministic, also would make sense to define a 'stop, we're done'
cd0b8b7c1ee21231…1ee21231…2022-07-26 02:25:47 <asciilifeform> (and an interval after which transmitter stops regardless)
d13f68dd00000000709be165…2022-07-26 02:27:41 <phf> i haven't read the paper yet, i somehow missed the part where signpost picked this particular direction up
3f9650c5d13f68dd…cd0b8b7c…2022-07-26 02:28:21 asciilifeform considers that there aint any point to attempting lubyism b/w l2+; it oughta be strictly b/w peers, otherwise threatens to get ridiculously bw-hungry and complicated
7c8a5a463f9650c5…3f9650c5…2022-07-26 02:29:19 <asciilifeform> phf: was originally his suggestion, but nfi where he currently is re subj
ec47f0fa000000005389de10…2022-07-27 16:34:22 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-25#1010411 << quod licet iovi, non licet bovi
ma nigga
3b8b1465ec47f0fa…4dca75ee…2022-07-27 16:34:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 23:35:40 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010637 << when mentioned earlier, flamed
00035f713b8b1465…93bdbe49…2022-07-27 16:34:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 22:29:37 phf[asciilifeform]: why not torrent
d3598b4300035f71…00035f71…2022-07-27 16:34:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 crtdaydreams: re DHT/PEST: perhapse we could utilize some form of bittorrent while wrapping i.e. a tracker in pest?
5c77744cd3598b43…d3598b43…2022-07-27 16:34:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-21 signpost: time to stop trying to satisfy your urges by making noise, and read *deeply* the pest spec, all of loper-os, and come back with questions or not at all.
dfbb4b3500000000ec47f0fa…2022-07-27 16:36:01 <phf> asciilifeform, is the bot quoting intentional, or that's just a bug? i can see the argument for both
727abcf500000000dfbb4b35…2022-07-27 16:36:19 <phf> but i can also see future where bot quoting becomes superflous, since can have inbandism quoting by hash, where user client does the referencing
2568562b00000000edf6a4be…2022-07-27 16:38:31 <phf> y chunk hashes, with whatever else might be useful in torrent protocol, that i'm not aware of yet”
edf6a4be00000000727abcf5…2022-07-27 16:38:31 <phf> but more to that torrent point, possibly flamed because suggestion sounded like “lets bolt a 10000 line torrent codebase to pest”, where's in my case asciilifeform correctly intuited that suggestion is “wai not use some reduced protocol similar to torrent, reduced to its essentials of chunking and explicit requests b
4410993e000000002568562b…2022-07-27 16:42:21 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010433 << ironclad, historically ironclad not being all there is the result of my investigations, so i'm not too worried
086a2e5f4410993e…3b8b1465…2022-07-27 16:42:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-26 07:00:13 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: phf: what are you using for crypto might I ask? did you write your own impl. of serpent or are you using ironclad? or some other lib unbeknownst to me
1b6263c5000000004410993e…2022-07-27 16:43:37 <phf> besides serpent one would also need to write sha512, sha256 and hmac. i figured eventually someone might do such a thing, and then we can all drop in replace. otherwise ironclad is good enough™
d8f5a672000000001b6263c5…2022-07-27 16:45:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112358 << quintessential quote
c995230ed8f5a672…3d4e550a…2022-07-27 16:45:26 <signpost> right, with phf the default assumption is not that he's doing "the x of y" superficial thinking.
b5de6719d8f5a672…086a2e5f…2022-07-27 16:45:26 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: I have read many books and papers regarding the LISP languages without really using them.
f70e95fc00000000dd6ca959…2022-07-27 16:58:39 <phf> further re ironclad, i'll probably end up extracting relevant bits sooner rather than later, because i want to see if i can get pest going on a genera :D
84ce6e9ff70e95fc…6ebd2016…2022-07-27 17:23:54 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010473 << bug. billymg actually fixed in his, asciilifeform simply not eaten that patch yet
632f74e284ce6e9f…b5de6719…2022-07-27 17:24:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:36:16 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, is the bot quoting intentional, or that's just a bug? i can see the argument for both
a5abc91d632f74e2…84ce6e9f…2022-07-27 17:24:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010474 << indeed. the entire irc-flavoured logger thing is similarly superfluous ( logotron oughta display straight from pest db. then order preserved, can fill in missing, etc )
8fed32b5a5abc91d…632f74e2…2022-07-27 17:25:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:36:34 phf[awt]: but i can also see future where bot quoting becomes superflous, since can have inbandism quoting by hash, where user client does the referencing
656677a18fed32b5…a5abc91d…2022-07-27 17:26:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010475 << with the caveat that as asciilifeform understands, the result won't be all that similar to traditional bt ( e.g. lubyism instead of deterministic chunks; l1 peers rather than swarm of randos; what's left.. )
e3e10e46656677a1…8fed32b5…2022-07-27 17:26:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:38:47 phf[awt]: but more to that torrent point, possibly flamed because suggestion sounded like “lets bolt a 10000 line torrent codebase to pest”, where's in my case asciilifeform correctly intuited that suggestion is “wai not use some reduced protocol similar to torrent, reduced to its essent
c8e6ee2de3e10e46…656677a1…2022-07-27 17:26:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010477 << asciilifeform distinctly recalls. thing is rather minimal iirc
40f5418dc8e6ee2d…e3e10e46…2022-07-27 17:26:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:42:36 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010433 << ironclad, historically ironclad not being all there is the result of my investigations, so i'm not too worried
de5d5d5240f5418d…c8e6ee2d…2022-07-27 17:27:43 <asciilifeform> fortunately for pestronics need only serpent (which ultra-simple to port from the ada example), sha256 (exists) , and hmac384 (presumably phf already baked one, or discovered where to crib)
d15e7d3dde5d5d52…de5d5d52…2022-07-27 17:29:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010482 << normally asciilifeform associates this w/ young folx, but then found that some continue this kinda 'wandering' right into old age. is, arguably, a function of whether fella eventually 'dares to do sumthing', i.e. nontrivial project where 'could fail', or simply continues 'f
08c56168d15e7d3d…40f5418d…2022-07-27 17:29:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:45:40 signpost: right, with phf the default assumption is not that he's doing "the x of y" superficial thinking.
c620251a08c56168…d15e7d3d…2022-07-27 17:30:39 <asciilifeform> nudging sumbody into 'nontrivial project' prolly aint possible, the impetus has to come from inside one's head (per e.g. the norsemen's concept of 'the spirit of loki, which leads men to stand up and recite poetry'(tm))
2850861ac620251a…c620251a…2022-07-27 17:31:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010484 << wainot, hypothetically on any box where can send/recv ethernet frames, could pest (if at 'toy' performance)
880f625b2850861a…08c56168…2022-07-27 17:31:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 12:58:55 phf[awt]: further re ironclad, i'll probably end up extracting relevant bits sooner rather than later, because i want to see if i can get pest going on a genera :D
e3720f5d880f625b…2850861a…2022-07-27 17:33:32 <asciilifeform> further re gregorynyssa -- iirc he went to write a pestron (in java? cobol? or what was it) -- so maybe in fact moving on from 'read many boox!'(tm) to action
a67a2b7500000000f70e95fc…2022-07-27 17:48:50 <phf> asciilifeform, i have no idea if the man does things, i thought that particular quote was a little gem. refering to language as “LISP”, read many papers /and books/ not written any. if we had an eqv of bashorg, ought to put the quote there
79b0b509a67a2b75…e3720f5d…2022-07-27 18:22:30 asciilifeform encountered over9000 folx like that, at one time arguably was it (at 15yo..)
8f25106000000000d46e28f1…2022-07-27 19:16:41 <phf> было весело рисовать современного человека, каким он его понимает, и к его и вашему несчастью, слишком часто встречал. Будет и того, что болезнь указана, а как ее излечить — это у
d46e28f100000000a67a2b75…2022-07-27 19:16:41 <phf> Но не думайте, однако, после этого, чтоб автор этой книги имел когда-нибудь гордую мечту сделаться исправителем людских пороков. Боже его избави от такого невежества! Ему просто
bfe4dd130000000039caecd7…2022-07-27 19:19:04 <phf> odd, bitdash has complete, 3-part message, where nsa logs gave up after two
621f4ce6bfe4dd13…79b0b509…2022-07-27 19:19:27 <asciilifeform> phf: loox like last msg 'in purgatory' there
a1b60b60621f4ce6…621f4ce6…2022-07-27 19:19:51 <asciilifeform> observe, nao will 'lag' by 1, for a spell
fea3fd0c0000000066b6f8b6…2022-07-27 19:20:22 <phf> i wonder if my hashes are actually invalid. i've switched from octet vectors to bignum for hashes, and might've messed up the code somewhere…
5135061afea3fd0c…a1b60b60…2022-07-27 19:20:28 <asciilifeform> iirc this is simply because hearsay eviction (other than by timeout) dun actually work, currently, in blatta
136f77c65135061a…5135061a…2022-07-27 19:21:04 <asciilifeform> phf: this is in fact possible, and not only in yours, potentially also in blatta, lol. may account for above
d846e089136f77c6…136f77c6…2022-07-27 19:21:29 <asciilifeform> atm there is no convenient marker of 'this msg's ancestor in fact never showed' in the ui
6ecb9808d846e089…d846e089…2022-07-27 19:21:47 <asciilifeform> this kinda thing will only show up as a 'msg sits in limbo until hearsay timeout'
ce2f600800000000fea3fd0c…2022-07-27 19:27:30 <phf> once i have a bit of free time again, i'm going to add more elaborate packet processing, which will potentially reveal any kind of misunderstandings about selfchains and hearsay and such
f30acca10d1a7658…0d1a7658…2022-07-27 19:28:10 asciilifeform catastrophically short on usable freetime atm sadly
66d8cdcb00000000ce2f6008…2022-07-27 19:28:16 <phf> at the moment i simply vector-push-extend all broadcast packets to a giant array :D
e2cfc02b0000000066d8cdcb…2022-07-27 19:28:26 <phf> so it's more like there's not any kind of pest compliance
5911f4340000000076747ad8…2022-07-27 19:57:21 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112378 << that's factually and historically incorrect, but then what should i expect make a mistake, double down. the transition from all uppercase started to happen sometime at the end of 70s.
7b55d8495911f434…5c77744c…2022-07-27 19:57:27 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010729 << the use of "Lisp" (uppercase L, lowercase "isp") to refer to CL, Scheme, etc. collectively is a "Paul Grahamism."
847057c8000000005911f434…2022-07-27 19:59:03 <phf> from my reading of relevant papers, you start seeing e.g. MACLISP refered to as MacLisp or Maclisp around 79, although in private correspondce even earlier
4a67e5ce00000000847057c8…2022-07-27 20:01:00 <phf> my '84 edition of lisp machine manual refers to various lisps as "Common Lisp" "Zetalisp" "Maclisp" and in general "Lisp"
e61de812000000004a67e5ce…2022-07-27 20:03:59 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112380 << no shit, but you're making an idiosyncratic semiotic argument then that the lisp family of languages ought to be referred to as LISP, but again that's not historically accurate. there was a distinct transition from LISP to Lisp _in the 80s_
86fe4cd5e61de812…7b55d849…2022-07-27 20:04:03 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010753 << Maclisp/MacLisp was the name of a particular language, not the class of languages.
a7fae64b00000000e61de812…2022-07-27 20:08:19 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112384 << that's a peculiar historical revisionism, that says more about the speaker, than it does about the subject
526a5ac9a7fae64b…86fe4cd5…2022-07-27 20:08:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: the cult-following which developed around Paul Graham and Arc shot down the usage of LISP.
c736dfc4000000006cf195de…2022-07-27 20:19:14 <phf> valuators, hand written small lisps that highlight the essential features. “Lisp” became more prevalent as the languages matured and diversified, and the subjects of exploration moved significantly beyond “cons cells” and “self modifying code”. the usage cemented not as a result of paul graham, but because in t
77f00794c736dfc4…f30acca1…2022-07-27 20:44:32 asciilifeform associates 'LISP' with dark age of folx sitting on teletypes where 'we only have 1 case, and would be blasphemous to write 'god', so better have 'GOD'' etc
6cf195de00000000a7fae64b…2022-07-27 20:19:14 <phf> if you're being verisimilitude pedantic with your taxonomy, then you ought to be aware that the transition from LISP to Lisp happened as the scope of the ideas covered by lisp concept expanded beyond the initial. the use of acronym LISP tends to imply a focus on traditional lisp subjects like pure sexp asts, metacircular e
88c346fc000000009d9f5f82…2022-07-27 20:19:14 <phf> hitty introduction tutorials insisted on continued use of LISP acronym.
9d9f5f8200000000c736dfc4…2022-07-27 20:19:14 <phf> he early 2000s continued use of LISP acronym in public forums was an easy tell for the kind of superficial blowhards that are fascinated with some college level aspects of lisp, rather than have interest or ability to pursue practical lisp programming. by then /in papers/ Lisp all but dominated, where's college books and s
0d2237890000000088c346fc…2022-07-27 20:49:18 <phf> i can kind of see the argument of using LISP to refer to a platonic idea of lisp, or perhaps when one wants to highlight the naive, old school evaluator approach. "we scripted our game with a LISP" can maybe imply that "it's a 100 lines of c, that i picked up from my college book" or similar
aba1dd8b000000000d223789…2022-07-27 20:50:08 <phf> but gregorynyssa was clearly refering to what is called, with proper capitalization, “Lisp family of languages”
ff18f41400000000aba1dd8b…2022-07-27 20:53:00 <phf> from chinual 8-JUN-84 “Common Lisp is a Lisp dialect designed to standardize all the various Lisp systems derived from Maclisp”
0ed94bfa00000000ff18f414…2022-07-27 20:55:20 <phf> paip published in 92, “The dialect of Lisp known as Scheme is also gaining popularity […] Other dialects of Lisp such as Franz Lisp, MacLisp, InterLisp, ZetaLisp and Standard Lisp are now considered obsolete.”
affebdc40ed94bfa…77f00794…2022-07-27 20:57:45 <asciilifeform> phf: no shortage of these examples. nfi what gregorynyssa was reading, by all signs subsists on a diet of 1970s 'ai for trs-80' maculature, lol
000ebad6000000000ed94bfa…2022-07-27 21:03:01 <phf> i decided to check some of the books, that i thought would deviate from my point which are also within hand reach. chinual, "connection machine" by w.daniel hillis 1982, paip
3d0e0ac700000000000ebad6…2022-07-27 21:04:07 <phf> quinnec's lisp in small pieces deals with lisp family, implementing core ideas of common lisp and scheme in scheme, he calls it "Lisp family" 1994
a2566bc6000000003d0e0ac7…2022-07-27 21:14:11 <phf> ooh, i found a hardcopy with LISP in it, it's the 1982 proceedings, conference on advanced research on vlsi, which has a paper "The SCHEME-81 Architecture -- System and Chip" which i couldn't find online. usage like “In the SCHEME dialect of LISP, procedures are lexically scoped (as in ALGOL-60).”
73d5beda00000000a2566bc6…2022-07-27 21:22:12 <phf> actually no it was because of "Data Path Generator" by shrobe (who worked on scheme-81 and later on ivory) which comes closest to gregorynyssa's particular usage: in one place “…such as Lisp interpreter of Scheme-81)” presumably refers to a Lisp Machine Lisp, but elsewhere “DPL is a LISP based symbolic layout langu
a6044990000000008ed2135d…2022-07-27 21:25:17 <phf> but actually pretty incosistent, elsewhere talks about “a Lisp expression” when talking about DPL conditions, but also “Daedalus is a novel graphics editor implemented on the MIT Lisp Machine, a powerful 32-bit personal computer, including […] direct support the LISP language”
57e8c97b00000000341bb772…2022-07-28 01:39:45 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112431 << escape to where remains a non-rhetorical question
56490d3c57e8c97b…880f625b…2022-07-28 01:40:01 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform often wonders if there in fact is a 'seekrit' exodus of 'surplus' males from usa into the 'free world'
5dedcc7d0000000057e8c97b…2022-07-28 01:42:06 <phf> most escapees i've met are doing пир во время чумы, remote work from georgia because cheap wines and even a popular electronic music venue
6171e2b500000000e2480183…2022-07-28 01:42:50 <phf> i'm yet to meet “escaped so we can build Rhodesia”, granted this might be a comment on me more than anything
4c48240e000000006171e2b5…2022-07-28 02:05:34 <phf> hmm, i wonder what's an archetypal “feast at the time of plague” in western tradition. it seems like established imagery, but i don't have a concise phrase for it in english
233a3fe4000000004c48240e…2022-07-28 02:07:25 <phf> ^ https://mannysbookofshadows.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/nosferatu-plague-scene.jpg
08a5dcf57e0c8a4d…7e0c8a4d…2022-07-28 02:41:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010549 << asciilifeform is at this pt convinced that 'where to feast during plague' is a matter of narrowly personal taste
abb80eae08a5dcf5…56490d3c…2022-07-28 02:41:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 21:40:00 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112431 << escape to where remains a non-rhetorical question
72ceb683abb80eae…08a5dcf5…2022-07-28 02:41:34 <asciilifeform> for some folx, conceivably, exactly where they happen to be atm is the place.
85ff373872ceb683…72ceb683…2022-07-28 02:42:29 <asciilifeform> and that nobody's 'building rhodesia' (can't resist to question the brand, also, is like to ask 'wai nobody building the hindenburg' rather than 'why not dirigibles', lol)
2c1c655c85ff3738…85ff3738…2022-07-28 02:43:49 <asciilifeform> at the risk of pedantism, some folx have concrete personal problems that a coupla months of lang study + plane ticket might reliably solve.
09ad334d2c1c655c…2c1c655c…2022-07-28 02:44:16 <asciilifeform> BB was arguably 'poster child' for this
e6fbc108b6d7d195…526a5ac9…2022-07-28 02:44:28 <dulapbot> BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-02-28 12:49:43: In the past month US down ~19% versus Brasil's Real, 5.3% versus Peso Uruguay
e0324de7357049f3…357049f3…2022-07-28 02:46:00 <asciilifeform> see e.g. recent thread re parts of eureich which allegedly have 0 tax on btc conversion, 0 'refugees', ~0 street chaos, etc
e819deb0e0324de7…e0324de7…2022-07-28 02:46:50 <asciilifeform> if you've a 'mains cable' which stretches there, and can somehow fix yerself up with the correct passport (so can ditch the usa one, supposing even burdened with one) then potentially very promising dest.
abeb9e89e819deb0…e819deb0…2022-07-28 02:47:55 <asciilifeform> ( if you have usa passport, yer a 'pidor' in so far as eureich is concerned, re banking in particular. asciilifeform 100% confirms, went on ro expedition in '17 concretely for fact-finding re subj )
dce75e7b2aa070fa…abb80eae…2022-07-28 02:49:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-17 asciilifeform: kakostan afaik currently most appealing (on paper) orcistan. that is, per asciilifeform's lights, given as can already read ~95% w/out dict & understand ~80
7df5df7adce75e7b…2aa070fa…2022-07-28 02:50:36 <asciilifeform> but again, muchly personal q, conceivably not errybody wants to live in a mountain backwater etc
c2457d247df5df7a…7df5df7a…2022-07-28 02:51:36 <asciilifeform> some folx seem to give a damn re 'scenes', 'things to do', meatspace social life etc. as mp did ('buenos aires is shithole, no night life!11' etc)
1a1063fcc2457d24…c2457d24…2022-07-28 02:52:25 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform otoh liked e.g. montevideo but ~not~ the fact that to get so much as a fucking power strip or bag of m3 screws there, had to smuggle it in personally
287e06042d9f9996…2d9f9996…2022-07-28 02:54:03 <asciilifeform> some folx (e.g. asciilifeform) 'like languages'. others not, e.g. asciilifeform's anglo phriend who in slovenistan right nao but can't be arsed to get passport b/c 'oh noez lang exam'
c8d955ef287e0604…287e0604…2022-07-28 02:55:54 <asciilifeform> some folx (e.g. phf) natural-born mars colonists, a-ok w/ terraforming desolate wasteland at own risk & expense.
378747c0287b8e0f…287b8e0f…2022-07-28 02:58:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010548 << asciilifeform went through similar dig, lol, but with results so nearly identical to phf's that won't bother to post
3350babd378747c0…dce75e7b…2022-07-28 02:58:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 17:27:59 phf[awt]: also i ran out of hardcopy lisp books
835b769000000000233a3fe4…2022-07-28 04:24:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010556 << (ah, i need to add parser for special links) doesn't capture the essence though, the way pushkin's does. have to have read red death to understand point
adc64519835b7690…3350babd…2022-07-28 04:24:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 22:39:41 asciilifeform[6]: phf: poe's 'red death', perhaps
a3c474df00000000835b7690…2022-07-28 04:27:37 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010560 << like i've mentioned before, i've been studying subj. on account of first known to me case of das racis!1 being used as weapon. but specifically why “build rhodesia” because of how fervently patriotic rhodesians were. were building “my country”, rather than “0 btc
828a7cfda3c474df…adc64519…2022-07-28 04:27:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 22:42:44 asciilifeform[5]: and that nobody's 'building rhodesia' (can't resist to question the brand, also, is like to ask 'wai nobody building the hindenburg' rather than 'why not dirigibles', lol)
f3884c42828a7cfd…378747c0…2022-07-28 04:29:03 <asciilifeform> phf: this is a point, but if sumbody somewhere is in fact phalanxing into a 'build our country!11', they evidently good at flying under radar
0f7061fa0000000086e8a251…2022-07-28 04:33:30 <phf> i've also tried a variety of orc terraforms, remain unimpressed. orcland people are the same everywhere, but the kind of thing they do in spare time is shaped by their masters, even though all orcs think they are free (unlike their city counterpart of course)
63be8fea000000000f7061fa…2022-07-28 04:35:44 <phf> despite the narrative, even here, u.s. deplorables are in significantly better position, when it comes to day to day at least, than their euro and i'm not even talking 3rd world counterpats.
7de04a130000000063be8fea…2022-07-28 04:37:50 <phf> when a german redneck comes to u.s. has a bucket list of activities "range", "dirt bikes", "stock car races", "hunting", etc. etc. when an american redneck goes to germany can have a lovely time at somebody's country house OR at a beer hall
46282981000000007de04a13…2022-07-28 04:38:54 <phf> i guess if you're going to be a neet doesn't matter where to plug into the interwebs, as long as working mains and “0 btc tax”
4631e95a0000000046282981…2022-07-28 04:47:07 <phf> i've recently learned that in u.s. can lift off and land on personal property, and it's recommended that if you're going to do it often maybe talk to fsdo
3e237203000000004631e95a…2022-07-28 04:53:19 <phf> i suspect that maybe in germany or maybe romania can conceivably have "private airstrip on own land". here when you mention something like that will get response like "oh yeah bob in garetsville, you know, past friendstown, has a crop duster/stunt plane/authentic WWII bomber in perfect shape". i'm yet to find orcland where
9f697cbc00000000cc987c7b…2022-07-28 04:56:54 <phf> "oooh nooo in germany can only hunt with smoothbore single shot muzzleloaded flintlock" "oohh noo in germany horses is very expensive hobby" "ohno in germany you need to have a license for that" "but did i mention how bad the beer is in america, what uncouth people!!1"
22dde02a9f697cbc…f3884c42…2022-07-28 05:06:30 <asciilifeform> phf: afaik usa still possibly friendliest jurisdiction, in indust. world, for small-time prop plane folx. tho iirc if yer machine actually leaves the ground with any regularity, will make coke habit seem cheap in comparison
1d2fa8e622dde02a…22dde02a…2022-07-28 05:06:50 <asciilifeform> ( and 100oct. petrol aint gettin any cheaper )
7bc8ce5d1d2fa8e6…1d2fa8e6…2022-07-28 05:07:58 <asciilifeform> e.g. 'Typical Cessna 172 Operating costs average between $100-$200 per hour depending on a wide range of variables.' (src: random insurance co. www)
60832125d687d051…d687d051…2022-07-28 05:10:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010586 << afaik most 'well socialized' plebes, in whatever part of the globe, learn 'with mother's milk' where the walls of the cage are, and ~never run into'em, so yes think 'free'
65b1b56960832125…828a7cfd…2022-07-28 05:10:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 00:33:44 phf[awt]: i've also tried a variety of orc terraforms, remain unimpressed. orcland people are the same everywhere, but the kind of thing they do in spare time is shaped by their masters, even though all orcs think they are free (unlike their city counterpart of course)
37417533000000009f697cbc…2022-07-28 05:11:57 <phf> it'll cost you 3hr and $50 to drive from morgantown municipal airport to montgomery county airpark, it'll cost you $120 to fly same distance in an hour :p
9c0a821137417533…60832125…2022-07-28 05:12:25 <asciilifeform> right, evidently not done for the 'fast'
881b9e9c9c0a8211…9c0a8211…2022-07-28 05:13:39 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform lives w/in ~5min walk of 1 of these fields, watches the machines come & go )
36381e56881b9e9c…881b9e9c…2022-07-28 05:13:52 <asciilifeform> often enuff folx take off then 20min later -- back
af72560636381e56…36381e56…2022-07-28 05:14:09 <asciilifeform> ( does he do a coupla immelmans then done for the day? nfi )
0505f6a60000000037417533…2022-07-28 05:14:33 <phf> but i think the point about "oh u.s. is friendly to smal-time plane folx" is similar to http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010573, a small glimse into terraform constraint graph, where we just happened to pay attention at the moment
d1e00f4b0505f6a6…65b1b569…2022-07-28 05:14:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 22:52:40 asciilifeform[5]: asciilifeform otoh liked e.g. montevideo but ~not~ the fact that to get so much as a fucking power strip or bag of m3 screws there, had to smuggle it in personally
4267baadd1e00f4b…af725606…2022-07-28 05:15:35 <asciilifeform> not meant to imply 'only for planes' lol
16cb5a4d4267baad…4267baad…2022-07-28 05:16:00 asciilifeform knows folx who, entirely Officially, privately owned working machine gun, say
1757d668000000000505f6a6…2022-07-28 05:16:32 <phf> one of the perks of visiting symbolics corporation :>
67c64d67000000001757d668…2022-07-28 05:18:06 <phf> on the other side of the globe you slowly discover an equivalent of california small gas appliances ban, but on the scale of totality of legal experience. "oh that thing? yeah you can't really do that. BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO"
2df3517f6432cefb…0d77f6c5…2022-07-28 05:18:50 <asciilifeform> 1st gen grumbles, 2nd vaguely recalls that 'father used to...', 3rd 'why wouldja want' aha
3e91d7ac2df3517f…2df3517f…2022-07-28 05:21:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010589 << not errybody who 'lives by the socket' is 'neet' (e.g. some kinda mooch)
b93221b43e91d7ac…d1e00f4b…2022-07-28 05:21:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 00:39:09 phf[awt]: i guess if you're going to be a neet doesn't matter where to plug into the interwebs, as long as working mains and “0 btc tax”
53f8a21e000000006432cefb…2022-07-28 05:21:46 <phf> i'm again misusing the term, we've had this conversation with verisimilitude. i mean hikikomori, but it's longer to type
de58c7530000000053f8a21e…2022-07-28 05:22:24 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-14#1106721
fa40238dde58c753…e6fbc108…2022-07-28 05:22:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 phf: verisimilitude: but i'm wrong, i didn't actually know what neet means. i thought it was another slang for hiki, but it's more precise than that
9debe9c5fa40238d…025757a9…2022-07-28 05:22:33 <asciilifeform> if not 100% hiki -- then yes, naturally would not be indifferent re where to sit
3245bc139debe9c5…9debe9c5…2022-07-28 05:23:14 asciilifeform not 100% 'hiki' and so still sitting in usa despite very little 'practical' reason to
f55446e83245bc13…3245bc13…2022-07-28 05:24:07 <asciilifeform> ( and owns neither ww2 bomber nor mg... )
1b74255400000000de58c753…2022-07-28 05:25:28 <phf> i'm maybe particularly bitter on the subject, because just returned (since about my 2019 russia trip to present that is) from an exploratory trip to the rest of the world
21121bfb1b742554…f55446e8…2022-07-28 05:25:48 <asciilifeform> phf: if not megaseekrit, where stopped b/w ru & usa ?
8a33b906000000001b742554…2022-07-28 05:28:50 <phf> besides random vacation visits specifically with long stay and consideration for even longer stay, serbia, turkey, slovakia, austria, east germany and finland
a6ee38fb8a33b906…cfbe9c22…2022-07-28 05:29:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010611 << fwiw, tho asciilifeform would happily see californistan vanish under the sea, if never again choked on exhaust of 2cycle engine wouldn't be soon enuff
be8a6d23a6ee38fb…b93221b4…2022-07-28 05:29:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 01:18:21 phf[awt]: on the other side of the globe you slowly discover an equivalent of california small gas appliances ban, but on the scale of totality of legal experience. "oh that thing? yeah you can't really do that. BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO"
532b9b0dbe8a6d23…a6ee38fb…2022-07-28 05:30:01 <asciilifeform> (not to mention awakened at 600hrs by same)
3f341cb3532b9b0d…532b9b0d…2022-07-28 05:30:38 <asciilifeform> wat's wrong w/ 'shoot yer mg, but not into my front yard' and ditto the engine.
b24400bb3f341cb3…3f341cb3…2022-07-28 05:31:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010626 << nifty. outta curiosity, what was missing in serbia ?
8c3a434fb24400bb…be8a6d23…2022-07-28 05:31:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 01:29:04 phf[awt]: besides random vacation visits specifically with long stay and consideration for even longer stay, serbia, turkey, slovakia, austria, east germany and finland
053d208b00000000dab804b1…2022-07-28 05:36:51 <phf> but i'll just say that serbia is stunted. it doesn't have much of anything, but it's not a blank slate either, between the mob and the chinese. but it's not like the fun 90s russia mob, it's more like african entranched criminal structure
4c1575aa00000000053d208b…2022-07-28 05:38:30 <phf> it's a poor country, where millenials and "gen z" either lived through, or the immediate aftermath of nato bombing
24c275f3000000004c1575aa…2022-07-28 05:40:24 <phf> it is in this respect very similar to russia, in that you can easily find the well to do enclaves that, out of toothpicks and gum, attempt to recreate a lifestyle of an average redneck
dd6d4a320000000024c275f3…2022-07-28 05:42:46 <phf> or otherwise you're poor and then you are not attempting to recreate any kind of lifestyle. you just work a lot and can't really afford much of anything
738da03700000000dd6d4a32…2022-07-28 05:56:54 <phf> so the available resources and the infrastructure reflect that reality. not many electron microscopes on local craigslist.
0f5a38f900000000738da037…2022-07-28 05:57:57 <phf> from the perspective of “go to qatar and start business!" probably a great blank slate (although i got a very strong sense that serbia has been divided and subdivided many times at this point)
e04ee6f40f5a38f9…dcb4493e…2022-07-28 13:55:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010641 << per asciilifeform's notion, this'd be 1 of the main attractions of eureich -- e.g. timis to budapest, or maribor to vienna, is ~3hr drive, get yer microscope and drive it back home to yer 100K$ 'oligarch palace'
8576c921e04ee6f4…8c3a434f…2022-07-28 13:55:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 01:57:10 phf[awt]: so the available resources and the infrastructure reflect that reality. not many electron microscopes on local craigslist.
abcd103dade67398…ade67398…2022-07-28 13:59:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010637 << if one believe mp, whole fucking globe is divided b/w these and the reich
4ffa6a98abcd103d…8576c921…2022-07-28 13:59:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 01:37:07 phf[awt]: but i'll just say that serbia is stunted. it doesn't have much of anything, but it's not a blank slate either, between the mob and the chinese. but it's not like the fun 90s russia mob, it's more like african entranched criminal structure
f6c418e84ffa6a98…abcd103d…2022-07-28 14:01:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010640 << not mega-revelation, but most of usa folx precisely this
975d67c9f6c418e8…4ffa6a98…2022-07-28 14:01:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 01:43:02 phf[awt]: or otherwise you're poor and then you are not attempting to recreate any kind of lifestyle. you just work a lot and can't really afford much of anything
27c4101f000000000f5a38f9…2022-07-28 14:02:17 <phf> there are electron microscopes in vienna? news to me
71f2a8dc0000000027c4101f…2022-07-28 14:03:14 <phf> the implications of "divided between the mob and the chinese" is that you're not guaranteed an "oligarch palace" to drive back to
44d6f03771f2a8dc…f6c418e8…2022-07-28 14:03:18 asciilifeform not personally investigated. assumes, possibly naively, that 'industrial world' at least somewhat consistent in re surplus uni gear avail.
7cbab74644d6f037…44d6f037…2022-07-28 14:04:30 <asciilifeform> phf: the old 'tax rate is ~same errywhere, just in some locales you dun immed. know whom to pay it to' hypothesis ?
3d049e517cbab746…7cbab746…2022-07-28 14:05:18 asciilifeform not knows whether so, not toured the serbias, must rely on reports from phf et al
239c17a73d049e51…3d049e51…2022-07-28 14:07:30 <asciilifeform> from asciilifeform's pov, the typical standalone house in timis, of which went by over9000, is 'oligarch palace'
33242f65239c17a7…239c17a7…2022-07-28 14:08:16 <asciilifeform> ... but if the inhabitants have to pay , on top of the ~50k$ they nominally cost (w/ eureich passport) a mob vig of 1k/mo, this wasn't obv. (and mp not mentioned)
423381d133242f65…33242f65…2022-07-28 14:09:03 <asciilifeform> not seen serbia tho, maybe there -- so
0a70c275423381d1…423381d1…2022-07-28 14:10:04 <asciilifeform> or, maybe only folx with conspicuous moolah gotta pay.
d6e1f8050a70c275…975d67c9…2022-07-28 14:10:20 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-30 phf: i also attempted to recreate similar lifestyle in russia, and my take is that russia is kind of a shithole. unless you're going for the whole "one year in taiga", there's not really place to put a compound of any kind: there's going to be some local warlord or prince that'll decide to fuck w
6db41f9fd6e1f805…0a70c275…2022-07-28 14:10:36 <asciilifeform> ( per asciilifeform's lights, 'being conspicuous' is quite optional )
074c344b6db41f9f…6db41f9f…2022-07-28 14:17:36 asciilifeform strongly suspects 'de gustibus'(tm) factor; some folx want 'compound' and fleet of mercedes; others, simply to not haveto work 12h/d simply to live in standalone house, in clean air, and eat non-synthetic food
35beef28074c344b…d6e1f805…2022-07-28 14:17:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 22:41:23 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010549 << asciilifeform is at this pt convinced that 'where to feast during plague' is a matter of narrowly personal taste
5860ae5f35beef28…074c344b…2022-07-28 14:32:53 asciilifeform not impressed with what has seen of the life of the us 'deplorables'(tm)(r); maybe not seen the correct set ?
7b3593375860ae5f…5860ae5f…2022-07-28 14:34:15 asciilifeform for instance would rather have to truck 3h to get electron microscope, than to get food
e133dd407b359337…7b359337…2022-07-28 14:35:29 <asciilifeform> but from pov of 'i wanna take the rifle and see what kinda meat in the woods that evening' phf's taiga prolly cannot be beat
6ae5827ce133dd40…c60bc6b4…2022-07-28 15:20:49 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112369 << added this yesterday, don't see any packets from you yet though
fdb1f3bc6ae5827c…35beef28…2022-07-28 15:17:53 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-27 gregorynyssa: billymg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ujXn
7898e95ffdb1f3bc…6ae5827c…2022-07-28 15:22:45 <billymg> i'll try generating some keys for you to peer with bitbot and crawlerbot, might have some luck there (e.g. signpost peered no problem with bitbot, but to this day no luck with this station)
9dbb73dc7898e95f…7898e95f…2022-07-28 15:28:48 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-28#1112447 << good luck "living like a white man" with that in costa rica. my personal experience is that cr is more comparable to e.g. austin, charlottesville, boulder, etc. in cost-of-living terms
9d6943cb9dbb73dc…fdb1f3bc…2022-07-28 15:25:53 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-28 mats: one has a ~1k/mo medical retirement that should direct deposit for his entire natural life
236082e99d6943cb…4d349294…2022-07-28 15:37:27 <awt> I suspect a hikikomori could get by on 2k/mo in CR
bbcbf699236082e9…e133dd40…2022-07-28 15:38:04 <asciilifeform> awt: until some major piece of gear burns out
548c8addbb90e14b…bb90e14b…2022-07-28 15:39:15 <asciilifeform> afaik there aint a 'budapest' you can readily drive to from cr.
6a7fd2c8548c8add…236082e9…2022-07-28 15:39:21 <awt> hikikomor - yeah I guess with cap ex would be a bit more.
ff304b756a7fd2c8…548c8add…2022-07-28 15:39:41 <asciilifeform> quite a bit moar, if counting the 'need courier w/ us passport and smuggling knowhow' thing
88788aeaff304b75…6a7fd2c8…2022-07-28 15:39:54 <awt> lol I think I meant to type asciilifeform but typed hikikomori and tried to tab complete.
89c4e0fb38519092…38519092…2022-07-28 15:40:18 asciilifeform not in cr for a reason, and not simply b/c 'lazy'
e66bb47689c4e0fb…89c4e0fb…2022-07-28 15:40:32 asciilifeform dun particularly, ftr, likes tropics, either. but that's orthogonal.
e65f553ee66bb476…88788aea…2022-07-28 15:43:12 <awt> I can't take too much time at the beach - way too hot.
746d8ebce65f553e…e66bb476…2022-07-28 15:44:13 asciilifeform can't stand damp, is good % of what hates re his current shithole
bbe1e744746d8ebc…e65f553e…2022-07-28 15:44:14 <awt> I quite enjoy the breezy, cool nights in Santa Ana, but still a bit too hot during the day.
20722f0bbbe1e744…746d8ebc…2022-07-28 15:47:10 <asciilifeform> different folx solving quite definitely different problems. asciilifeform for instance wouldn't care to have ~only~ cr passport.
5859a9e020722f0b…9dbb73dc…2022-07-28 15:50:23 <billymg> i miss winter, and the cozy feel when you have the heat turned up inside
7f4f31c85859a9e0…20722f0b…2022-07-28 15:47:27 <asciilifeform> ( so much of the conv re moving , ends up 'talking past' )
fbdceffa7f4f31c8…7f4f31c8…2022-07-28 15:49:08 <asciilifeform> billymg: per asciilifeform's lights, geography w/out winter aint rly habitable
1dd28e99fbdceffa…5859a9e0…2022-07-28 16:04:32 <billymg> i will mention one thing about CR cost of living that i don't think i've mentioned before: you can get excellent dental and health care here for 1/10th the cost in the US
892221e81dd28e99…1dd28e99…2022-07-28 16:06:14 <billymg> i even know a guy here, i think in his 40s, who last year discovered he had a brain tumor. he had it removed in san jose and as far as i could tell from talking to him after the procedure everything was still intact
89245ef7cad06c3e…bbe1e744…2022-07-28 16:57:12 <awt> yeah the private hospitals are pretty good somehow
92a83cd866444903…fbdceffa…2022-07-28 17:10:58 <asciilifeform> billymg: usa is afaik unique hell in this respect, in usa 'colt heath insurance co.' for moar or less anyffin major
3795195c92a83cd8…cad06c3e…2022-07-28 17:15:39 <billymg> asciilifeform: it's a big thing to consider, even the savings of routine work can add up to offset a significant portion of the "import gear" premium
24309d823795195c…92a83cd8…2022-07-28 17:13:58 <asciilifeform> billymg: right, but gotta point out that this 'feature' is in almost entire globe other than usa
fd3db1ab540baecb…540baecb…2022-07-28 17:14:48 asciilifeform recalls walking past medical offices in timis, took photos of prices, showing later to parents, who 'this gotta be fake, they're prolly witch doctors'
d11749ecfd3db1ab…3795195c…2022-07-28 17:19:17 <billymg> asciilifeform: makes sense. i suspect the import gear premium also roughly the same in all non-US locales
fed83570d11749ec…fd3db1ab…2022-07-28 17:17:05 <asciilifeform> billymg: in south amer. defo. but maybe not in eureich, where can drive to e.g. berlin and load up on $goodies and truck'em back to $locale w/out customs wankage ?
4f7c23c4769785cb…51f075de…2022-07-28 17:17:58 <asciilifeform> sa is afaik banana hell from top to bottom, coast to coast
5e4a94304f7c23c4…769785cb…2022-07-28 17:31:58 <billymg> if by "banana hell" you just mean 2x cost for gear plus a week extra in wait time, then sure
4339d07b38947cc1…38947cc1…2022-07-28 17:29:27 asciilifeform suspects the shipping situation aint aboutta get any better, either. rather opposite.
8f4ea8bc4a5f2be0…fa40238d…2022-07-28 17:29:47 <dulapbot> kakobrekla last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-09-27 13:40:58: enjoy
7713dabab513da2c…5e4a9430…2022-07-28 17:33:35 <billymg> i checked actually, on average for the last 6 months it's been 80% markup, so not even quite 2x (fully landed cost, including shipping, tariffs, etc.)
2a6171e12410b5e4…2410b5e4…2022-07-28 17:34:10 <billymg> can see here for "menu" https://www.costaricatax.com/import-tax.htm
840e600b2a6171e1…b513da2c…2022-07-28 17:31:13 <asciilifeform> not erry vendor even ships to the sad americas.
a7d647ec840e600b…840e600b…2022-07-28 17:31:31 <asciilifeform> iirc at one time whaack (or was it billymg ?) had to retain an importer to resend the parcels
32e84974a7d647ec…2a6171e1…2022-07-28 17:35:03 <billymg> asciilifeform: none of them do, you use a 3rd party service with warehouse in miami
b2b6d65d32e84974…32e84974…2022-07-28 17:35:15 <billymg> when i say 80% average markup i'm including the fee the 3rd party takes
6a12908da2248c5b…46de499d…2022-07-28 17:32:45 <asciilifeform> maybe if run household like soviet nuke sub, where over9000 spares for errything on hand, tolerable
be528f516a12908d…6a12908d…2022-07-28 17:33:00 <asciilifeform> otherwise 'ohnoez i stripped that screw, no chair for 6wks+'
465192cebe528f51…a2248c5b…2022-07-28 17:36:15 <billymg> asciilifeform: does require some planning, yes
473817ad465192ce…be528f51…2022-07-28 17:42:17 <asciilifeform> from the tax thing, 'BATTERY 42.38%' << lol!!
cb5ddcbc473817ad…473817ad…2022-07-28 17:42:38 <asciilifeform> 'COMPUTER MONITOR WITH DVI INPUT 42.97%'
1904d556698213a1…698213a1…2022-07-28 17:43:35 <asciilifeform> 'SPOCK ASSORBERS 42.78%' << shock absorbers??
1ba40bdb1904d556…1904d556…2022-07-28 17:43:58 <asciilifeform> 'SHOE - USED - PROHIBITED TO IMPORT' << lol!
e484d56d1ba40bdb…465192ce…2022-07-28 17:58:11 <billymg> tbf, a lot of computer equipment comes with ~13% tax
26d79404e484d56d…e484d56d…2022-07-28 17:58:59 <billymg> not defending their categories, it's complete bs, just pointing out it's not all > 40%
e4b65b1126d79404…26d79404…2022-07-28 17:59:59 <billymg> the computer monitor one is funny, presumably created to put a premium on "newer" monitors
51162897e4b65b11…e4b65b11…2022-07-28 18:00:38 <billymg> but i bet now could find a monitor "without DVI" (but with displayport, hdmi, etc) and get it at the lower 13% rate
fa19916c51162897…51162897…2022-07-28 18:01:42 <billymg> but hey, as you said, it's their bread and butter
8c9c607cfa19916c…9d6943cb…2022-07-28 17:58:46 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-30 asciilifeform: little shithole orcistans, as i understand, live and breathe import taxation like reich breathes income taxation
a69bb5c48c9c607c…66444903…2022-07-28 18:06:04 <awt> In other CR news: girl went down to CR for a summer program. Got the poverty tour. Neglected to tell me until she returned that she'd seen a corpse by the side of the road and ...
6ea6ef07a69bb5c4…a69bb5c4…2022-07-28 18:06:19 <awt> had seen actual homeless, unlike on my guided tours.
ef5f3b4d6ea6ef07…6ea6ef07…2022-07-28 18:06:58 <awt> Somehow ended up stationed in a home without hot water.
1e3c9c3a9c6b0350…1ba40bdb…2022-07-28 18:08:29 <asciilifeform> lol where's 'safe' ? (other than the grave)
2a637fd797aae095…1e3c9c3a…2022-07-28 18:09:15 <asciilifeform> fwiw in washingtonistan also regularly saw 'corpse by side of road'. the only diff is that the latter was usually hidden inside smoking wreckage of auto
27dd8fa22a637fd7…2a637fd7…2022-07-28 18:09:51 <asciilifeform> these usually not even bums, were commuters exactly like at the time asciilifeform
d27fb5c427dd8fa2…9c6b0350…2022-07-28 18:11:23 <awt> Indeed. Only a few weeks ago witnessed presumable meth heads walking down the street with crowbars here in Sac.
9034d85bd27fb5c4…27dd8fa2…2022-07-28 18:12:19 <asciilifeform> west usa sounds rather 'mad max' from this & other tales
37ed9d453abc9e2a…a656657f…2022-07-28 18:15:45 <awt> Also told me she'd been accosted by a pimp and two whores on her way out of the Target parking lot.
297bf26c28cb1721…37ed9d45…2022-07-28 18:16:37 <awt> Unclear. She was in her car and they tried to block her way. Maybe trying to turn her out idk.
ad23b4ccad3f82a1…28cb1721…2022-07-28 18:17:35 asciilifeform continues to laff at fact that folx pay 10-15k$/mo for cockroach flat to live near these
975ed373ad23b4cc…97aae095…2022-07-28 18:17:38 <signpost> funny how this gets evaluated depending on familiarity with an area.
9e5479f5975ed373…975ed373…2022-07-28 18:18:24 signpost has plenty of areas of say austin or houston where I'd not likely go, and definitely not send my wife.
5d6ea3229e5479f5…9e5479f5…2022-07-28 18:18:46 <signpost> but when it's another country it's different and spookier.
d22450b2bc926460…5d6ea322…2022-07-28 18:19:57 <signpost> re: thread above this is sorta why I'm interested in south new hampshire. state govt increasingly populated by secessionist libertarians with guns, driving distance to boston
5f2110bbd22450b2…d22450b2…2022-07-28 18:20:31 <signpost> and climate has winter without being covered in 3ft of snow for months.
1266b1145f2110bb…bc926460…2022-07-28 18:20:37 <awt> If you go by the crime stats, many cities in central/south america less "dangerous" than major US cities.
90bc130eb2f111d8…b2f111d8…2022-07-28 18:20:58 <signpost> east side of houston is *rough*, "third ward"
3da1cabe90bc130e…90bc130e…2022-07-28 18:21:14 <signpost> and I lived 5min from this for a few years. one can get used to anything.
407af08d3da1cabe…1266b114…2022-07-28 18:22:46 <awt> signpost: I hung out in Conroe (north of Houston) for a few days. Eye opening.
8bf773dec4f97081…c4f97081…2022-07-28 18:23:53 <signpost> conroe -> "corn row", greenspoint -> "gun's point" etc
2aa5b195586ebc42…8bf773de…2022-07-28 18:24:36 <signpost> there's a caste system with the policing though and plenty of areas are safe.
3ae54599814e03a5…2aa5b195…2022-07-28 18:24:50 <signpost> probably eye-for-caste is a good measure of whether you know an area.
09fdfabe3ae54599…3ae54599…2022-07-28 18:25:42 <signpost> awt: nearby conroe there's a mega-suburb called the woodlands, in it, carlton woods -> "cartel woods"
b33eb5d209fdfabe…814e03a5…2022-07-28 18:28:34 awt will have to check out the northeast. Never going back to the midatlantic. Shit weather, cockroaches, mice, just as overcrowded as any city in California.
60a80b18b33eb5d2…09fdfabe…2022-07-28 18:29:16 <signpost> nothing checks all the boxes. new england's full of wiggers.
e9ef9b8f60a80b18…60a80b18…2022-07-28 18:30:54 <signpost> the NE knuckledragger caste at some point adopted the urban affectations.
e001df790000000071f2a8dc…2022-07-28 23:14:44 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-28#1010882 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-28#1010890 it's more that your idea of what's "being conspicious" is, and it's not ever "fleet of mercedes". often times it's not counting the total before buying food at local grocery. or putting a generator outside y
8494e2c2e001df79…8f4ea8bc…2022-07-28 23:14:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 10:04:30 asciilifeform: phf: the old 'tax rate is ~same errywhere, just in some locales you dun immed. know whom to pay it to' hypothesis ?
737e3b5b8494e2c2…8494e2c2…2022-07-28 23:14:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 10:17:36 asciilifeform: strongly suspects 'de gustibus'(tm) factor; some folx want 'compound' and fleet of mercedes; others, simply to not haveto work 12h/d simply to live in standalone house, in clean air, and eat non-synthetic food
2261d135737e3b5b…8c9c607c…2022-07-28 23:15:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-27 22:41:23 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-27#1010549 << asciilifeform is at this pt convinced that 'where to feast during plague' is a matter of narrowly personal taste
e56412f500000000e001df79…2022-07-28 23:14:44 <phf> our house. or even assuming that your house is your house. i suspect that having lived in america, you're entirely americanized, you assume that everywhere else is basically america, but with better food and architecture.
05a0b9d100000000e56412f5…2022-07-28 23:18:31 <phf> the threads about "german expat bar in thailand only being viable while the german owner gives locals free drinks, burned one day" is a kind of a universal thing, one just rarely experience it by implicitly staying within the designated lanes as a tourist, or as a nomad emigrant.
f5eb598705a0b9d1…ad23b4cc…2022-07-28 23:21:28 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform not travelled the globe, but does know that not errywhere 'is america' -- some places (incl. within hr by auto from where asciilifeform sits) are 'africa'.
66fec6910000000005a0b9d1…2022-07-28 23:22:27 <phf> but those are extremes, that exist everywhere. one hour (well four) from belgrade is also africa. there's probably not many places in the world where one hour is not africa
729ca1520000000066fec691…2022-07-28 23:22:49 <phf> i'm more talking about subtle things of living among the people, and attempting to be a "free man" in the process
d22a66d3729ca152…f5eb5987…2022-07-28 23:22:57 <asciilifeform> incl. interesting observation -- asciilifeform init. wondered why in the 20y prev owner of that pad installed it, the genset not been stolen (it aint camouflaged in any meaningful way). then had thought, there's 2dozen of'em in the town. not stolen for same reason as the toyotas -- aint, in given context, conspicuous
d8c89c7800000000729ca152…2022-07-28 23:23:10 <phf> very easy to be satrian free man "i get to choose life in prison OR hang myself"
6f3c8477d8c89c78…d22a66d3…2022-07-28 23:24:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-28#1010777 << asciilifeform buys this 100%; large part of wai not tried to move
2ed4218b6f3c8477…2261d135…2022-07-28 23:24:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 19:18:47 phf[awt]: the threads about "german expat bar in thailand only being viable while the german owner gives locals free drinks, burned one day" is a kind of a universal thing, one just rarely experience it by implicitly staying within the designated lanes as a tourist, or as a nomad emigrant.
0da5802e15cf8a24…15cf8a24…2022-07-28 23:25:15 <asciilifeform> phf's report re 'africas' is 1 of over9000 reporting precisely same thing. entirely believe.
c04c95ea0da5802e…0da5802e…2022-07-28 23:25:52 <asciilifeform> the 'america' is receding, giving way to 'africa' , right here visibly to naked eye, not even need to buy plane ticket to see it.
8158a837c04c95ea…c04c95ea…2022-07-28 23:29:15 asciilifeform sees phf's travel notes as having strong 'mp flavour', 'i, aristocrat, have sailed the seven seas, have seen, what've you miserable peasant seen' but, having habit to distinguish flavour and the fact, readily believes him
fb74afc58158a837…8158a837…2022-07-28 23:41:46 <asciilifeform> ACTION fwiw strongly suspects that 'dun appear richer than the locals' worx errywhere. what means in $locale obv differs. for instance, asciilifeform's 20y.o. auto is 1 of few on his street that never broken into or vandalized. until, lulzily, recently, when platinum thieves discovered that autos from bush II reign have m
e4bee646fb74afc5…fb74afc5…2022-07-28 23:42:14 <asciilifeform> where means 'count the money when buying food' -- count it.
c2cd2e9ca672ce98…a672ce98…2022-07-28 23:43:31 <asciilifeform> ...that autos from bush II reign have moar platinum, lol
589c84ad00000000d8c89c78…2022-07-28 23:43:45 <phf> well, i appreciate that perspective, but i'm not really into finer things in life and more into sovereignty, end up blowing my cower by going "LETS BUY AN X AND LAUNCH A Y INTO SPACE" usually get "ohno mister we do not do this kind of thing here"
0c9ab01400000000589c84ad…2022-07-28 23:44:11 <phf> "well what exactly do you do here?" "have you been to our beer hall?"
b96bf3570c9ab014…c2cd2e9c…2022-07-28 23:44:28 <asciilifeform> if the aboriginals go to beer hall -- must go to beer hall.
eb5a8d49b96bf357…b96bf357…2022-07-28 23:45:35 <asciilifeform> otherwise, yes, 'stierlitz didn't know what gave him away -- was it the parachute he dragged behind him, or the katyusha he was singing'
89347402000000000c9ab014…2022-07-28 23:46:57 <phf> а ты небось шпийон? -- нет, почему вы так решили -- сынок, да мы тут никогда негров не видели
31ccee60952f451d…952f451d…2022-07-28 23:47:42 asciilifeform not owns, believe or not, any 'fine things' (at least such as'd be obv to aboriginal), once phriend commented 'when burglar finally breaks into yer house, he'll torch it from frustration'
bf6e13d80000000089347402…2022-07-28 23:56:46 <phf> when i read “the cask of amontillado” long time ago, decided that i too want a crypt under my house, where i store wine and dead relatives. wine is pretty easy, but surprisingly storing dead relatives in own crypt is significantly restricted across the world, u.s. inclded
a5a6f7eebf6e13d8…910bb631…2022-07-28 23:57:27 <asciilifeform> saw, believe or not, in delaware -- tombstones in middle of farm. but nfi whether modern or 'grandfathered in'
893792dda5a6f7ee…a5a6f7ee…2022-07-28 23:58:56 <asciilifeform> most reichs, unsurprisingly, Officially mandate bureaucratic processing of the dead. so that, well, montrezors can't so easily stuff their fortunatos in a vacant berth in the wine cellar
adc0d47c893792dd…893792dd…2022-07-29 00:00:10 <asciilifeform> in (parts of?) usa taken to interesting degree of insanity -- recently read some lul where funeral co. director described women bringing miscarried foeti in plastic boxes, and 'if larger than a lemon, we have to report it'
0a7b346fadc0d47c…adc0d47c…2022-07-29 00:02:17 <asciilifeform> 'sovereignty' imho is a false god. if you piss on the customs of the aboriginals, they'll eat you eventually, guaranteed, wherever you happen to be
51bf07e500000000bf6e13d8…2022-07-29 00:05:16 <phf> live on day as a free man: charge local police force on a horse with a 308, because you refuse to surrender your parent's from your crypt
b078d00438997a46…38997a46…2022-07-29 00:07:39 <asciilifeform> iirc in most of usa you can actually bury'em in yer crypt once they've been rubber-stamped / stricken from pension rolls, tho
648cfac9b078d004…b078d004…2022-07-29 00:09:16 <asciilifeform> 'anyffin you want, with the right paperwork' is how reich worx. e.g. alex shulgin famously had a permit to bake & eat any dope; for cost of toyota anyone can buy permit for mg; etc
2797483200000000d3427a1a…2022-07-29 00:10:01 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-28#1011037 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNcN5f3vwro&t=75s
99d4439227974832…737e3b5b…2022-07-29 00:10:05 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 20:06:18 asciilifeform: 'antigone reloaded' lol
3bc4ddf700000000e76ad90f…2022-07-29 00:11:13 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-28#1011038 this one either never arrived or hasn't arrived yet
577e44cd3bc4ddf7…99d44392…2022-07-29 00:11:17 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-28 20:07:39 asciilifeform: iirc in most of usa you can actually bury'em in yer crypt once they've been rubber-stamped / stricken from pension rolls, tho
a4f54b8c577e44cd…648cfac9…2022-07-29 00:11:48 <asciilifeform> phf: interesting -- both loggers seem to have'em
1230d13da4f54b8c…a4f54b8c…2022-07-29 00:12:26 <asciilifeform> phf: fwiw replay only sorta worx atm in blatta
4faeacf7000000003bc4ddf7…2022-07-29 00:12:59 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-missing-packet.png
efa35c3c000000004faeacf7…2022-07-29 00:13:33 <phf> i mean, i'll get it fixed once getdata, etc. but still rather curious
b4fae225efa35c3c…a6603956…2022-07-29 00:13:44 <asciilifeform> phf: odd. wonder if it's to do with conflicting netchains in your protoclient
2d590b56b4fae225…b4fae225…2022-07-29 00:14:03 <asciilifeform> (once you missed a msg, yer netchain will diverge)
3a7d94a400000000efa35c3c…2022-07-29 00:15:26 <phf> i don't see how that would be related to implementation details. there's an accurate back and forth log, and then one message just doesn't arrive
9a1ed811000000003a7d94a4…2022-07-29 00:15:55 <phf> since i ignore it, then conversation is potentially in a broken state
3752123e29d569a3…2d590b56…2022-07-29 00:16:10 asciilifeform suspects that this kinda thing will need a constructed test, where packets 'randomly' dropped, to debug
893f74720000000029d569a3…2022-07-29 00:16:54 <phf> i wonder if we'll discover that udp just generally "doesn't always arrive"
4174a95f893f7472…ad46577d…2022-07-29 00:17:09 <asciilifeform> does say right on the box 'occasionally not arrives' neh
1cac72514174a95f…4174a95f…2022-07-29 00:17:27 <asciilifeform> tho e.g. asciilifeform in various experiments not observed with own eyes
626b6fda587be8cd…587be8cd…2022-07-29 00:18:00 <asciilifeform> (if even only in degenerate case where 'loose cable')
4e6e39bd626b6fda…626b6fda…2022-07-29 00:19:02 <asciilifeform> per spec, phf's station oughta discover the missing msg when a) next msg from asciilifeform has divergent selfchain/netchain and/or b) 'prod'
32f94f734e6e39bd…4e6e39bd…2022-07-29 00:19:50 <asciilifeform> ( then issues getdata; and at some pt gets a response from somebody; and if doesn't, retries for operator-config'd interval/count )
150218c400000000893f7472…2022-07-29 00:19:54 <phf> i sort of expect udp to have dropped back when protocol was called ip/tcp, because a machine that still has cathode lamps had one burn out in the process. i suppose the workings of the intertubes are a mystery now more so than ever
b933905e150218c4…32f94f73…2022-07-29 00:20:42 <asciilifeform> afaik today typically packets dropped when link is saturated (somewhere along the path)
838f81c800000000150218c4…2022-07-29 00:21:39 <phf> aah that makes sense, QoS and an insufficient backlog buffer
390c70df838f81c8…b933905e…2022-07-29 00:21:53 asciilifeform recently learned that natural gas lines 'drop packets' similarly, pressure reductors can only reduce 'so much' and always have a vent
6679f03400000000838f81c8…2022-07-29 14:46:26 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-29#1112601 << i suspect planes have same kinds of misconceptions as horses, and generally boomers ruined it for everyone™. i suppose like a house with stables on property is what you get in potomac village at the end of your lobbyist career, likewise you buy cessna whe
63846dac6679f034…577e44cd…2022-07-29 14:46:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-29 asciilifeform: but you won't be 'going places'
d39633960000000002d07e6f…2022-07-29 14:54:06 <phf> one can already go places as is, we're in a hyper connected world, the problem of going places has been solved. pop a valium and xanax in coach, and you don't even have to experience travel, instant teleportation!
eba5a27900000000d3963396…2022-07-29 15:07:22 <phf> the point is perhaps “fuck it. why not?” as illustrated by this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHPF72di9Zg
23d89d2700000000eba5a279…2022-07-29 15:08:49 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-29#1112588 << so to answer this question, this is not something in the works, just had this idea in my head ever since i saw how my rancher friend uses airplanes in nevada for basically grocery runs
1a4a175223d89d27…63846dac…2022-07-29 15:08:52 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-29 vex: I wonder when phf wants his own airstrip. where to fly?
d2fd57050000000023d89d27…2022-07-29 15:10:39 <phf> normal trip to his location takes about 3 hours, and the last leg is offroading over jagged rocks, where you have to deflate tires and everything. but a beer run in his 1960 something propeller piece of shit airplane took maybe 40 minutes
9291074fd2fd5705…4d398815…2022-07-29 15:43:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-29#1010843 << the unfortunate thing is that you can't knock yerself out in the 3-4hr idiot queue at airport, lol
4b31ccd69291074f…2ed4218b…2022-07-29 15:43:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-29 10:54:22 phf[awt]: one can already go places as is, we're in a hyper connected world, the problem of going places has been solved. pop a valium and xanax in coach, and you don't even have to experience travel, instant teleportation!
62aa4cf64b31ccd6…9291074f…2022-07-29 15:43:29 asciilifeform pictures one where you can, hybrid of 'fedex' shop & airport, lie down in a crate..
c766015862aa4cf6…62aa4cf6…2022-07-29 15:44:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-29#1010847 << asciilifeform had similar idea, has family beach house in delaware where almost never goes because takes ~3h. while 5min from each end is a small engines airfield..
3fbb7955c7660158…4b31ccd6…2022-07-29 15:44:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-29 11:10:54 phf[awt]: normal trip to his location takes about 3 hours, and the last leg is offroading over jagged rocks, where you have to deflate tires and everything. but a beer run in his 1960 something propeller piece of shit airplane took maybe 40 minutes
9da67feb3fbb7955…c7660158…2022-07-29 15:47:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-29#1010840 << at least with horse there aint (afaik) an artificial supply shortage. still aint clear to asciilifeform wai 1engine duster w/ 40hp motor costs 200-300k new
979085979da67feb…3fbb7955…2022-07-29 15:47:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-29 10:46:41 phf[awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-29#1112601 << i suspect planes have same kinds of misconceptions as horses, and generally boomers ruined it for everyone™. i suppose like a house with stables on property is what you get in potomac village at the end of your lobb
9b38ca7c97908597…1a4a1752…2022-07-29 15:47:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-29 asciilifeform: but you won't be 'going places'
e075dbc19b38ca7c…9da67feb…2022-07-29 15:51:17 <asciilifeform> ( a possible answer, if tautological, is 'because it can, because of the dentists' )
1588852be075dbc1…e075dbc1…2022-07-29 15:54:28 <asciilifeform> at one time supposedly in usa small plane was not 'aristocratic luxury' but sumthing almost anyone could buy, like e.g. harley. not far from asciilifeform there was, until recently, ruin of a factory where these were made for mass market, through '50s. what changed, to turn these into 'for old dentists' -- asciilifeform no
8faa494b00000000d2fd5705…2022-07-29 15:57:07 <phf> you can still see holdovers of that culture in the deplorable areas on the west coast
8e8df0e97411d511…7411d511…2022-07-29 15:59:06 asciilifeform pictures folx flying ww2-era machines, inherited from fathers, maintain in own garage
b3c6e7a4000000008faa494b…2022-07-29 16:00:01 <phf> large distances, less road coverage, if you go to a random airpark around mojave will run into men doing grocery runs
87054da000000000b3c6e7a4…2022-07-29 16:08:14 <phf> i suspect that it's more like the farmer poor, ~~$1m in non-liquid assets, whatever small liquidity that goes towards further assets.
2e9ee13d0000000087054da0…2022-07-29 16:09:42 <phf> where airplane is some kind of writeoff, along with two jondeere, a hay baler, etc.
47cc75e061c1073d…61c1073d…2022-07-30 02:40:19 <awt> made some good progress on blatta today. figured out how to break up the monolithic Message class.
20a280c247cc75e0…47cc75e0…2022-07-30 02:41:27 <awt> Going forward it should be easier to add new message types, especially for people other than myself.
1dcc6838956e6342…e9ef9b8f…2022-07-30 04:27:11 <signpost> congrats awt, fine place to have modularity.
fa6db36a000000002e9ee13d…2022-07-30 18:56:18 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112646 << i could never quite grasp the point you're making here. lisp machine will have some kind of datastructure to represent e.g. image, usually involving an nxn array, which then can be dumped onto filesystem as a fasl without the need to serialize to png. but h
bc39d19bfa6db36a…9b38ca7c…2022-07-30 18:56:22 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-30 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also.
6dec4ba400000000fa6db36a…2022-07-30 18:56:18 <phf> ow does that work with cross system? at some point you have to read/write a serialization format, and then encoding standards come in as an efficient way to transmit (and store) large data frames
f848980e000000006dec4ba4…2022-07-30 18:57:41 <phf> or is the idea that encoding algorithm should travel in the container?
e6b2eaf500000000f848980e…2022-07-30 18:58:14 <phf> now that i'm asking a quesiton, i feel like i remember you elaborating on it, possibly as a result of my prompt in the past
1971beab00000000e6b2eaf5…2022-07-30 19:00:16 <phf> and if it's the later, would you not be moving the “format” question from one bucket to another, no long have a png, now have a “webassembly” vs “jvm” or whatever
c151b485000000001971beab…2022-07-30 19:07:59 <phf> and also http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-07#1110808
bba5be28c151b485…bc39d19b…2022-07-30 19:08:02 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-07 phf: but also at this level of thought shaping you're basically running into the fact that there's tons of existing protocols and solutions that could be used or shoehorned or influence your decisions or whatever, and simply saying "i don't care, i'm just using pest" is a kind of gordian knot cut
7de79d4fbba5be28…21fa5fcb…2022-07-31 04:39:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-30#1010880 << sadly asciilifeform tried & failed to locate this thrd
703ee4d87de79d4f…97908597…2022-07-31 04:40:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-30 14:58:31 phf[awt]: now that i'm asking a quesiton, i feel like i remember you elaborating on it, possibly as a result of my prompt in the past
37ff2478703ee4d8…7de79d4f…2022-07-31 04:41:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-30#1010876 << notion wasn't that one could somehow get away with ~no~ structure whatsoever, but that e.g. www page oughta be sumthing like a sexpr representing a cl proggy (for a revived lispm naturally), running inside a restricted evaluation envir, rather than a gnarly ball of ???
2fc6374037ff2478…703ee4d8…2022-07-31 04:42:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-30 14:56:35 phf[awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112646 << i could never quite grasp the point you're making here. lisp machine will have some kind of datastructure to represent e.g. image, usually involving an nxn array, which then can be dumped onto filesystem as a fasl wit
be4be99c2fc63740…bba5be28…2022-07-31 04:41:49 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-30 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also.
d8554d31be4be99c…37ff2478…2022-07-31 04:43:11 <asciilifeform> i.e. 'no format' is an exaggeration, there's of course a format. but not a bizarre restrictive noose of a format.
68134e6ed8554d31…d8554d31…2022-07-31 04:44:07 asciilifeform tried to illustrate this in e.g. 'peh', attempt to bake a usefully general but just short of turing-complete (i.e. with apriori fixed cpu/memory cost) mechanism
29164a5168134e6e…68134e6e…2022-07-31 04:45:27 <asciilifeform> ( apriori in the sense where sumbody giving you a pubkey and a signature or ciphertext immediately tells you how much cpu/ram will be required to evaluate'em together )
03bda16129164a51…29164a51…2022-07-31 04:46:11 <asciilifeform> can have branches; even loops; but if the tape squares run out, or the eval ticks, eggog.
19154bd403bda161…03bda161…2022-07-31 04:46:39 <asciilifeform> can't think of any reason wai a www ('replacement') page couldn't have similar mechanics.
2781f86d19154bd4…19154bd4…2022-07-31 04:48:14 <asciilifeform> arguably 'turing complete' but at same time avoid 'writing blank cheques'.
fe3807ff2781f86d…2fc63740…2022-07-31 04:48:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-26 asciilifeform: signpost: 1 way to think about it, is that when you process a packet, yer 'extending credit' to the sender, giving him a certain # of cpu cycles (and occupying a certain amt of storage while it happens)
96d50048fe3807ff…2781f86d…2022-07-31 04:49:31 asciilifeform is somehow certain that there is a conventional name for this technique; but does not know it (and for that matter not presently aware of any public examples of it other than the linked)
5f8cff6596d50048…96d50048…2022-07-31 04:50:15 <asciilifeform> e.g. bitcoin's 'vm' simply prohibits loops, rather than 'here's max # of ticks you may need for this script'
7a16c3305f8cff65…5f8cff65…2022-07-31 04:52:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-30#1010881 << this is precisely what yer guaranteed to end up with if the 'solution' is anyffin other than a final solution.
3a1408187a16c330…fe3807ff…2022-07-31 04:52:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-30 15:00:33 phf[awt]: and if it's the later, would you not be moving the “format” question from one bucket to another, no long have a png, now have a “webassembly” vs “jvm” or whatever
3455288c3a140818…7a16c330…2022-07-31 04:54:40 <asciilifeform> 'final solution' is when 'www page' which wants to display a bitmap on the screen, can e.g. (include "072a3ce8c00bb2a5867727ce4d788d5634fdd11a4a01e82239b75bb844dbb081") and fetch png decoder, if not already cached, from pestnet, and compute the req. # of eval ticks from it, + whatever other includes, and the data payload,
79925e293455288c…3455288c…2022-07-31 04:55:50 <asciilifeform> and when this operation is hard-guaranteed to behave precisely as specced (not only 'not overflow and give root to script kid on yer box', but in fact carry out precisely the desired # of cycles and display ~sumthing~)
b36e7be879925e29…79925e29…2022-07-31 04:56:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-30#1010879 << 'can' travel in container, if not already known to the local system (see above), was the idea.
74ac13b4b36e7be8…3a140818…2022-07-31 04:56:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-30 14:57:57 phf[awt]: or is the idea that encoding algorithm should travel in the container?
2fba1c2c74ac13b4…b36e7be8…2022-07-31 04:57:05 asciilifeform thinks this is a fairly exhaustive description (if 'easier said than done') but if not , will answer qs.
fe416f5300000000c151b485…2022-07-31 16:02:20 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-31#1011133 << ty, that's comprehensive. i also sometimes forget how much alt the alt-future could've been
5d79872a00000000fe416f53…2022-07-31 17:13:31 <phf> little cycle and capability bound forth programs that target your local display postscript
af215ede000000005d79872a…2022-07-31 17:14:58 <phf> or even how plan9 does it: rig up process namespace so that /dev/display or /dev/kbd or whatever point to a sandboxed/windowed equivalents, but in your model the program is not x86_64 but instead a vm bytecode
d505d00700000000af215ede…2022-07-31 17:16:09 <phf> there aren't actually any good models for that from lisp world, lisp machines are notoriously non-isolated and by design
fe98dd998341f0df…8341f0df…2022-07-31 18:46:44 <PeterL> I tested positive for covid. Right now it just feels like a mild cold, hopefully it doesn't get worse
55afbf1b00000000d505d007…2022-07-31 19:26:23 <phf> imagine how worse it would've been if you weren't tripple boosted!
72f536430000000055afbf1b…2022-08-01 22:31:55 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-01#1112685 << which book is that?
732c96fc72f53643…74ac13b4…2022-08-01 22:32:31 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-01 adlai: e.g., Umberto Eco wastes an entire leaf of one book, explaining the different quotation marks.
d18bc1470000000072f53643…2022-08-01 22:37:34 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-01#1112761 << i write a lot of code “for computing ideal guitar tuning” in spare time, end up in a kind of rut, where all kind is a kind of glorified calculator. or perhaps more generously a kind of WEB program, where many paragraphs of thought goes into handful of lines of
cffcbc60d18bc147…732c96fc…2022-08-01 22:38:08 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-01 adlai: fwiw, my "write lisp for your soul" drive is leaning more strongly towards "write pure CL functions for computing ideal guitar tuning, given chord progressions of setlist", than "implement the pest spec, then crawl towards roach-for-roach compatibility with roacha"
671e899d00000000d18bc147…2022-08-01 22:37:34 <phf> code. there’s perhaps merit in implementing pest, because it forces you to explore functionality outside of your usual domain. (of course if you do write gui network programs in lisp on the regular, then perhaps pest is a waste of time)
5396df7500000000671e899d…2022-08-01 22:38:11 <phf> *where all _code_ is a kind of glorified calculator
c86a525bb3ccc8dd…1dcc6838…2022-08-02 15:18:57 <signpost> congrats gregornyssa, hearing you loud and clear.
65602a6ec86a525b…fa19916c…2022-08-02 15:28:58 <billymg> nice gregornyssa, looks like we are successfully peered now as well
0771788665a69182…65a69182…2022-08-02 15:51:58 <awt> Blatta bug - forgot versioin numbers increment down
f1df2fa33a6a9668…847f14bb…2022-08-02 16:18:43 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/75.106.222.93-8333 ][75.106.222.93] (Could not connect!), h=747666, v=99999, United States - peers: 286 - last probed: 12m ago
3da73fde3a6a9668…4261f01d…2022-08-24 13:53:39 <asciilifeform> PeterL: orig. notion was, recall, entirely modest 'in #a rack people report outage, but how to do so if it lives in selfsame rack'
23cbd154f1df2fa3…f1df2fa3…2022-08-02 16:18:43 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.38.94.63-8333 ][54.38.94.63] (Alive), h=747680, v=88888, France - peers: 60 - last probed: 13m ago
d733f9ea23cbd154…23cbd154…2022-08-02 16:18:43 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.4-8333 ][205.134.172.4] (Alive), h=747680, v=70001, United States - peers: 60 - last probed: 13m ago
396db36cd733f9ea…d733f9ea…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/54.39.156.171-8333 ][54.39.156.171] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, Canada - peers: 54 - last probed: 13m ago
9c9e0138396db36c…396db36c…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/82.79.58.192-8333 ][82.79.58.192] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, Romania - peers: 47 - last probed: 13m ago
877573409c9e0138…9c9e0138…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/208.94.240.42-8333 ][208.94.240.42] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 40 - last probed: 13m ago
47c0d5c487757340…87757340…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/185.254.196.12-8333 ][185.254.196.12] (Alive), h=438714, v=99999, United States - peers: 35 - last probed: 13m ago
879f057447c0d5c4…47c0d5c4…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/85.164.243.42-8333 ][85.164.243.42] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, Norway - peers: 29 - last probed: 14m ago
bd7c0e03879f0574…879f0574…2022-08-02 16:18:44 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/94.176.238.102-8333 ][94.176.238.102] (Alive), h=747297, v=99999, Lithuania - peers: 29 - last probed: 13m ago
0e6fe266bd7c0e03…bd7c0e03…2022-08-02 16:18:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.28-8333 ][205.134.172.28] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 17 - last probed: 13m ago
9559515b0e6fe266…0e6fe266…2022-08-02 16:18:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/103.6.212.28-8333 ][103.6.212.28] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, New Zealand - peers: 16 - last probed: 12m ago
25ea5c4b9559515b…9559515b…2022-08-02 16:18:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.26-8333 ][205.134.172.26] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 14 - last probed: 13m ago
a99bb25f25ea5c4b…25ea5c4b…2022-08-02 16:18:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.6-8333 ][205.134.172.6] (Busy? (No answer in 15 sec.)), h=747636, v=99999, United States - peers: 11 - last probed: 13m ago
dd30e937a99bb25f…a99bb25f…2022-08-02 16:18:45 <crawlerbot> [ http://bitdash.io/nodes/205.134.172.27-8333 ][205.134.172.27] (Alive), h=747680, v=99999, United States - peers: 2 - last probed: 13m ago
d88f578ea99bb25f…6c238c49…2022-08-02 19:18:40 <awt> asciilifeform: I don't understand why a Prod must be replied to with another Prod if everyone is periodically sending out Prod messages.
912d595cd88f578e…fe98dd99…2022-08-02 19:20:38 <PeterL> are there two types, a prod request and a prod response?
7b81d1f70000000089bca8f2…2022-08-02 23:27:04 <phf> kek http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-02#1112951
66646f427b81d1f7…558b8434…2022-08-02 23:27:23 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-02 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-08-02#1112926 << lol, log off for a day and already funeral
5076ce98000000007b81d1f7…2022-08-02 23:32:23 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-02#1112990 << ignore's main point, afaiu, is for busting traffic analysis. prod having a potentially predictable request/response pattern makes it unusable for that purpose. can sprinkle ignores judiciously for whatever reason a station might decide to
0eaf8d055076ce98…66646f42…2022-08-02 23:32:41 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-02 asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'ignore' indeed arguably redundant. but recall that 'prod' is recent addition to spec.
7a5cbe8c0eaf8d05…912d595c…2022-08-03 00:07:14 <PeterL> I wonder if anybody's pest traffic will ever be interesting enough that somebody would try to do traffic analysis on it?
1019e842000000005076ce98…2022-08-03 00:22:43 <phf> PeterL, that's like asking a prepper if he trully intends to use his M16 against the gubernment, at any point, and if he does, why prey tell has he not bothered to keep his general fitness and aerobics up to standard, before buying the extra capacity magazine, a question before reasonable and also impolite!
b35ed911a6b68778…c86a525b…2022-08-03 01:06:01 <signpost> there's also building things correctly, aside aspirations.
82a59f25ba346b81…ba346b81…2022-08-03 01:13:16 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-04-10#1095838 http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-04-10#1095840
987fa9a882a59f25…0eaf8d05…2022-08-03 01:13:34 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-04-10 mircea_popescu: what motivates the monkey to pick up the rock isn't some sort of contorted dream about becoming a rockthrowing revolutionary ceo.
3d40f67e987fa9a8…987fa9a8…2022-08-03 01:13:34 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-04-10 mircea_popescu: it is a much simpler "here is a rock."
28b3870400000000a6b68778…2022-08-03 01:21:07 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-12-14#1955448
0e911400000000007ca719a8…2022-08-03 01:22:00 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2019-12-14#1955448
be499f7e0e911400…3d40f67e…2022-08-03 01:22:18 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: most beings an engineer produce useful things only as an unintentional / coincidental byproduct of an internal cycle of self-assuaging that's broadly unrelated to anything else.
472cbb030d2c1a22…0d2c1a22…2022-08-03 01:23:40 signpost imagines the first guy who invented wiping his ass.
9b9414df472cbb03…472cbb03…2022-08-03 01:23:51 <signpost> couldn't handle being covered in shit all day like the rest of us.
896d5266000000000e911400…2022-08-03 01:31:53 <phf> more importantly was it a legitimate invention before the ancient mp had his ass wiped and proclaimed it good?
b07ce40b896d5266…9b9414df…2022-08-03 01:45:10 <signpost> this line of questioning will require a virgin to whip, that we may read the welts
ad33789d0000000051d74a44…2022-08-03 15:47:10 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-03#1113034 << this like watching my outdoor cat trying to figure out if front door me is as much of a friend as a porch door me…
f68355c0ad33789d…44212efc…2022-08-03 15:47:29 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-03 adlai: I guess awt can tell phf that... oh wait, do they even still use IRC !?
f332254000000000ad33789d…2022-08-03 16:19:48 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-26#1010433 << main problem with ironclad is that it's garbage happy. there's for example no way to make red packet check cheap, an accidental or intentional flood of red packets will generate a lot of garbage. sbcl is clever about cleaning up short lived garbage, but there are no guarant
de484feff3322540…f68355c0…2022-08-03 16:20:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-26 07:00:13 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: phf: what are you using for crypto might I ask? did you write your own impl. of serpent or are you using ironclad? or some other lib unbeknownst to me
15e7ae640000000099de31f2…2022-08-03 16:20:45 <phf> but the core algorithms don't need all that garbage, it comes from book keeping machinery. "i want a sha384 hmac" creates 3+ instances of clos objects
c6f6212f0000000015e7ae64…2022-08-04 14:34:51 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011007 << there are tbf all kinds of funny things on github https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/413#issuecomment-1186918603
92696460c6f6212f…de484fef…2022-08-04 14:35:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-04 09:28:21 shinohai: GM and here is the funniest goddamned thing you will read on Shithub all year: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/20273#discussioncomment-3320989
8a66f5e000000000c6f6212f…2022-08-04 14:35:56 <phf> depends on your sense of humor of course, but i find above issue comment hilarious, and julius evola is right smirking along
c7818aa48a66f5e0…3031cb07…2022-08-04 14:37:04 <shinohai> Oh yes, no shortage of lulz in issues, but having their codebot break because you used gender constructs is *chef's kiss*.
fd0fc11b000000000479e3ba…2022-08-05 15:36:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011014 << your terminal passed the test
1ba85476fd0fc11b…92696460…2022-08-05 15:37:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-04 13:20:27 awt: oic my term doesn't support clowns
2595ef7d564af48d…6d127725…2022-08-05 16:27:55 <awt> ok now that doesn't even show up on the bitdash logs
a70bf7bb9719dbfe…c7818aa4…2022-08-05 19:57:26 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-04#1011014 << imma include this as a comment somewhere in my st pbuild.
41e9458fa70bf7bb…1ba85476…2022-08-05 19:57:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-04 13:20:27 awt: oic my term doesn't support clowns
738f50a0000000009719dbfe…2022-08-05 22:22:59 <phf> fwiw stock xterm doesn't support emojis either. it's all macos cancer
e8afa82c00000000738f50a0…2022-08-06 16:28:04 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-06#1113069 << you need books on marine chronometers, the great ships and the lesser known wwii aerial battles. also books on lathe work, and biographies of men you respect despite their flaws.
8d68e0ebe8afa82c…41e9458f…2022-08-06 16:28:24 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-06 scoopbot: New article on 0xcdd.com: [ http://0xcdd.com/posts/Books.html ][ Books ]
bfb62a48316c256f…2595ef7d…2022-08-06 17:26:15 <awt> Prod doesn't quite fit in with the order buffer mechanism. When you receive a prod with a tip you don't have, there's no message to add to the order buffer. But...
b24c9cbfbfb62a48…bfb62a48…2022-08-06 17:26:50 <awt> Gotta add something to the order buffer so the staleness check can be avoided for the GetData response.
4f3092d200000000e8afa82c…2022-08-06 17:31:34 <phf> so when a packet comes in you know that it's a getdata response by checking your existing messages again?
a4c094db000000004f3092d2…2022-08-06 17:32:48 <phf> (as opposed to e.g. having a special list of pending getdata messages)
3b99d3cba4c094db…b24c9cbf…2022-08-06 17:50:42 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011030 << yeah blatta keeps a list of messages that are "out of order" in the order buffer. When ancestors come in via a GetData response, they avoid the timestamp check if a direct descendent is in the order buffer.
f17c5c4d3b99d3cb…8d68e0eb…2022-08-06 17:51:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 13:31:54 phf[awt]: so when a packet comes in you know that it's a getdata response by checking your existing messages again?
4b7f9721f17c5c4d…3b99d3cb…2022-08-06 17:52:25 <awt> jonsykkel and I also ended up with a datastructure to keep track of outgoing GetData messages to ensure messages aren't requested multiple times.
23d5e08f00000000a4c094db…2022-08-06 18:09:27 <phf> apparently i've been ignoring netchain messages (or rather not producing right ones)
2f03a1df0000000023d5e08f…2022-08-06 18:12:14 <phf> here's how my packet log looks, http://glyf.org/tmp/pest-packets.pdf red lines are selfhchains, black lines are netchains. messages that are just hashes are missing from my backlog, and if either netchain or selfchain is 0 i don't render it
e47127aa000000002f03a1df…2022-08-06 18:13:13 <phf> i like how there's chains of my messages just kind of floating in the aether, until e.g. asciilifeform responds with a proper netchain to give it placement
14a74930bab244fa…f17c5c4d…2022-08-06 18:27:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 14:26:35 phf[awt]: hello, world
9980fd9e93b42619…93b42619…2022-08-06 18:42:00 <phf> http://glyf.org/tmp/pest-packets-fixed-netchain.pdf
2d4e4e5a9980fd9e…f515ae62…2022-08-06 19:18:31 <awt> wow nice I've been meaning to write a tool to display chains somehow
41a9cd57a4a89c1f…a4a89c1f…2022-08-06 20:58:20 <phf> i don't have any preferences, if you're building your own at the moment, we can standardize on any other colors, as long as they are shared, so that it's easier to read them moving forward
85030bad0cd46876…0cd46876…2022-08-06 21:25:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-06#1011055 << http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=3kT3
69dd7bf985030bad…14a74930…2022-08-06 21:25:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-06 17:08:26 phf[awt]: graphviz, it's just a simple dot graph
a126d374902951ea…902951ea…2022-08-19 19:06:42 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-19#1113183 << i'm porting my code to genera, and truncated sha512 would've simplified things for me (well, it's still plenty of work, relatively a drop in the bucket)
fbefb819a126d374…42ae088e…2022-08-19 19:07:09 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-19 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: not obviously bad idea, but prolly not worth breaking compat for. asciilifeform would like to see evidence of 'faster' tho.
c0590e0faef33c7d…82629cfc…2022-08-20 18:01:05 signpost just got back from a week on the beach at south padre island
72062da0278a8076…c0590e0f…2022-08-20 18:21:40 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-19#1011237 << not possible automatically, but I'm happy to do it for ya.
f2e2ff0d72062da0…fbefb819…2022-08-20 18:22:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-19 12:53:55 awt: signpost: according to the logs seems like it's not possible to change the nick deedbot has associated with my key. Still true?
27a6e137f2e2ff0d…278a8076…2022-08-20 18:22:22 <awt> signpost: great! When you get a chance please change it to awt.
5da33f5527a6e137…72062da0…2022-08-20 18:23:17 <signpost> np, just sign a message with the same key requesting the name change.
b318b650198eafe0…198eafe0…2022-08-21 01:17:21 <awt> Likely assassination attempt on Dugin. Daugher killed instead.
93f82b65b318b650…b318b650…2022-08-21 02:16:52 <awt> Currently working on address cast - packets within packets within packets
aea6b81393f82b65…5da33f55…2022-08-22 01:47:52 <signpost> phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-20#1011250 << what's your sense of the stature of Dugin in Russia?
66a2b12baea6b813…f2e2ff0d…2022-08-22 01:48:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-20 21:17:46 awt: Likely assassination attempt on Dugin. Daugher killed instead.
e2deddfa0000000000000000…2022-08-22 15:54:32 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-21#1011252 << “jordan peterson, the mastermind behind american trumpism, and trump’s number one advisor”
90ea43abe2deddfa…66a2b12b…2022-08-22 15:55:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-21 21:48:18 signpost: phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-20#1011250 << what's your sense of the stature of Dugin in Russia?
b9eb42910000000000000000…2022-08-22 18:14:36 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113248 << i came to view this behavior as particularly kind of displacement activity. it's a combination of one of the later threads between diana and mp on malleability of computer artifacts and an old copypasta from “ivan chesnokov” about ak-47
ecfbfbb9b9eb4291…90ea43ab…2022-08-22 18:15:04 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-22 asciilifeform: this kinda thinking continues to perplex asciilifeform . wai make n-th aol? there is already over9000 centralized aol-style chats.
866f7684ecfbfbb9…b9eb4291…2022-08-22 18:14:45 <phf> WHY YOU WANT RAIL FOR KALASHNIKOV? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROCURED FROM IZHEVSK MECHANICAL WORKS? etc. the punchline in that pasta is RIFLE IS FINE. YOU FUCK IT, IT ONLY GET HEAVY AND YOU STILL NO HIT LARGEST SIDE OF BARN. GO TO FIRING RANGE, PRACTICE WITH MANY MAGAZINE OF CARTRIDGE. THEN YOU NOT NEED DUMB SHIT PUT ON SIDE
80b6ecf7a640b20d…a640b20d…2022-08-22 18:15:21 <phf> notice that there's nobody actually on pestnet! which would be an equivalent of “go to firing range, practice with many magazines”. but if with ak one can put a flashlight, and a rail and then basically exhaust the masturbatory activity, with software the malleability means that one can perpetually “attach rails” o
ceed10d280b6ecf7…80b6ecf7…2022-08-22 18:15:21 <phf> r plan to attach rails, or discuss planning to attach rails
02a5ad010000000000000000…2022-08-22 18:37:06 <phf> awt: crtdaydreams is making these points on #a, while he obviously has a working pest instance. ascii's logtron has been out of sync with the net for 22d and he's been away for as long. i'd say there was a kind of attempt at a liftoff a month and a half ago, which sputtered. a worthwhile participation in pest imho would be
48db4cb902a5ad01…02a5ad01…2022-08-22 18:37:06 <phf> a) to make concious effort to prioritize pest over #a in personal communiccation b) further put blatta through paces by running it c) write own clients.
0e0e774f48db4cb9…48db4cb9…2022-08-22 18:38:32 <phf> from that perspective crtdaydreams talking on #a about wiring pest into xmpp or whatever is representative of /something/ and i tried exploring that something in the thread above
efe6aacd0e0e774f…0e0e774f…2022-08-22 18:42:06 <phf> at the very least people who are talking about pest ought to be actively participating in pest. if nothing else then to discover that perhaps they don't want to participate in pestnet, or have more realistic perspective on what needs to be improved.
84d04a30efe6aacd…9bb6a533…2022-08-22 19:15:41 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011280 << Indeed. In that case the question is then why is nobody here? I can't see at this point what IRC has that pestnet doesn't.
50db386d84d04a30…ecfbfbb9…2022-08-22 19:16:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 14:42:34 phf[awt]: at the very least people who are talking about pest ought to be actively participating in pest. if nothing else then to discover that perhaps they don't want to participate in pestnet, or have more realistic perspective on what needs to be improved.
643ba02750db386d…84d04a30…2022-08-22 19:17:56 <awt> I guess maybe you already answered that - more fun to attach shit to the ak than to practice at the range?
cbd6f721643ba027…643ba027…2022-08-22 19:18:45 <awt> Alternatively, maybe there's nothing imortant to discuss?
fd1fa073cbd6f721…ea96406f…2022-08-22 19:18:32 <PeterL> awt: the one thing IRC has is that you don't need to talk to anybody to exchange keys, you just point your client at asciilifeform's server and start chatting
930f5d7dfd1fa073…fd1fa073…2022-08-22 19:19:17 <PeterL> I wonder, if he turned off duplapnet, how many there would show up here?
bc42d22e930f5d7d…cbd6f721…2022-08-22 19:21:08 <awt> PeterL: certainly but that wouldn't prevent those of us already here from using pest on a daily basis
2be6de01bc42d22e…425dc671…2022-08-22 19:31:05 <billymg> speaking for myself, i've been quiet lately because i don't have anything new or relevant to discuss. been mostly focused on irl endeavors and distractions
2abb432e2be6de01…2be6de01…2022-08-22 19:31:39 <billymg> agree 100% that those with pest clients already running should be 'dogfooding' it
5de86e2c2abb432e…2abb432e…2022-08-22 19:32:25 <billymg> if pest was a corporate project i guarantee use of slack and all other chat clients would be banned for the teams working on it
544fbd37e2f37ff9…e2f37ff9…2022-08-22 19:34:02 <billymg> the idea being if there are shortcomings or desired features you will discover those via your own real-world use
b0b9df66544fbd37…544fbd37…2022-08-22 19:40:57 <billymg> pest oughta be spammed on twitter/*chan/etc also, it's mature enough that people can start using it (inb4 "why don't you do that" -- yes, i probably will start doing that at some point, after sorting irl affairs)
3227a481b0b9df66…bc42d22e…2022-08-22 19:43:21 <awt> The p2p space on Twitter rn is all about keet and nostr.
a30862273227a481…efe6aacd…2022-08-22 19:45:56 <phf> i suspect there's multiple "whys", it's summer, #a is friendlier to casual banter, pest both protocol and extant implementation necessarily have rough edges, which means interacting with platform is deliberate effort, etc.
60515516a3086227…a3086227…2022-08-22 19:50:05 <phf> irc retranslator or all-commer station, all of that needs to be implemented, and there ought to be some kind of incentive to do it, like for example because “the action” is on pest net
534d918460515516…b0b9df66…2022-08-22 20:05:03 <billymg> imo this is a valuable insight. can think of pest like any social network, where popularity is determined by the quality (or at least "draw") of the content ("where the action is"). online forums don't come and go because of their underlying technology or UX
96655b90e3639579…50db386d…2022-08-22 20:04:04 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-11 signpost: tricking all the meatsacks into attacking the same point in unison is mighty technology; I'm not going to arrogantly shit on it.
b54bbb5c0000000000000000…2022-08-23 02:30:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-22#1113295 << the point is not "ascii man bad": you've been answering threads in #a and generally using it as your primary communication platform, a behavior that _necessarily_ contributes to de-emphasis of pestnet, whether or not there are good reasons for it
dcbad045b54bbb5c…e8c56ebf…2022-08-23 02:30:35 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-22 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011277 << asciilifeform took for 1st time in many yrs 'vacation', to carry out a physical experiment (will elide details, not interesting to readers, guaranteed) which ended in crater, demoralizing. in the course of which, lol, contracted cur
8e7b0d50dcbad045…b54bbb5c…2022-08-23 02:35:07 <phf> e.g. there's been a lively conversation on pest today, but your last active engagement at the moment of my answer is very attentive response to gregorynyssa's personal confessions. an external observer who might want to engage with asciilifeform is therefore disincentivized from attempting pestnet participation. in fact if
8efb3a998e7b0d50…8e7b0d50…2022-08-23 02:35:07 <phf> one wanted your attention, one would be encouraged to remain in #a
168da4658efb3a99…2e80f907…2022-08-23 10:55:39 <PeterL> awt: just updated to 9973. Error message "blatta: error: Please specify a handle", tried to fix it and the got "blatta: error: no such option: --handle". Could you make the first message say station-handle, or name the option --handle instead of --station-handle?
d9bb9b2b024407c1…7dbb7e08…2022-08-23 13:40:05 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011376 << does trinque have an academic interest in 3D/CAD firearms and such?
d424ac4dd9bb9b2b…dcbad045…2022-08-23 13:40:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 18:05:04 signpost: wave-of-meat has its place, but I'd rather have the defense distributed guys in here, folks teaching el salvadorean abuelitas bitcoin, etc.
a7ada385149a880d…149a880d…2022-08-23 15:07:18 <phf> hmm, i hate that saying as much as i hate the “boating accident”. “hur hur i lost my guns in a BOATING ACCIDENT … IN MINECRAFT!11”
9ad20654a7ada385…715a8cb4…2022-08-24 13:38:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011288 << ditto
7286d1cad2ebb066…d9bb9b2b…2022-08-23 18:45:15 <shinohai> Move over blatta, unicode coming to awk https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/unix-legend-who-owes-us-nothing-keeps-fixing-foundational-awk-code/
4f9fb7999ad20654…063effdd…2022-08-24 13:39:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 15:27:53 billymg: speaking for myself, i've been quiet lately because i don't have anything new or relevant to discuss. been mostly focused on irl endeavors and distractions
6bf5d0e89ad20654…9ad20654…2022-08-24 13:40:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011307 << what's wrong with e.g. pgpgram in blog comment ?
824914c06bf5d0e8…4f9fb799…2022-08-24 13:41:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:08:22 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: Point was, in that instance of dulapnet shutting down, how many would reach out to ascii for a peering key over email?
88acb179084908ab…d2ebb066…2022-08-23 18:49:13 <awt> shinohai: I never learned how to use awk. <<awkward>>
0e41bb65824914c0…f3c47a7d…2022-08-24 13:43:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011335 << 'multichan' is already there -- erry net is 'channel'
2c65f49b88acb179…084908ab…2022-08-23 18:56:47 <shinohai> awk wasn't the shittiest waste of my time. You can make udp clients and servers with it! :D
697417f60e41bb65…6fc73d93…2022-08-24 13:44:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:35:53 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt]: phf: possibly in order before toilet would be multichan support
f4198e132c65f49b…a7ada385…2022-08-23 22:51:12 <phf> i wrote a bunch of awk, but every system seems to have non-standard, incompatible extensions. gnu awk had unicode since forever, but it's also the only one that supports networking. openbsd has its own version. kernighan is fixing "one true awk", which is what comes stock with debian and macos
776a41daf4198e13…f4198e13…2022-08-23 22:56:48 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-08-23#1113344 << jesus christ, man, that's trash tier intellectuals
44188d7a4e8c642c…4e8c642c…2022-08-24 13:45:31 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-23#1011435 << I'm a dark-mode maximalist, but nice that yer logger has the option. I have tampermonkey script for gui browser that darkens other stuff, but not necessary with your logotron.
aeb1ca18776a41da…d424ac4d…2022-08-23 22:57:17 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-08-23 gregorynyssa: the professors Leonard Shlain, Marshall McLuhan, and Carrolll Quigley all attest to this 20th century "nonverbal communication" skyrocketing.
de1f0acc44188d7a…697417f6…2022-08-24 13:46:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-23 23:55:40 billymg: i have to ask, is it the light theme or dark theme you're using? (or maybe you have your OS set to change based on the time of day)
60ec6d64aeb1ca18…776a41da…2022-08-23 22:59:04 <phf> strongly correlated with the inability to bring up a pest station :}
e39f60fbde1f0acc…890f4aa7…2022-08-24 13:45:44 <PeterL> I've gotten a pgp-gram in a blog comment, was a good way to get me a message
8b8ea35cbc6b6597…60ec6d64…2022-08-24 00:06:22 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011258 << on account of dugin and his connection to letov, suddenly everything in current ru situation is expressable with GrOb songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9178yCCAxzM
ba77810d8b8ea35c…aeb1ca18…2022-08-24 00:06:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 12:07:22 phf[awt]: yegor letov specifically was a frontman of a punk band (for lack of better term, because it's not really western style punk, more like heavy take on bard music, with heady lyrics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG7JRvtsh1U
5fab15cdba77810d…8b8ea35c…2022-08-24 00:06:41 <phf> looking forward to asciilifeform attempting a translation of that one :>
96719e895fab15cd…2c65f49b…2022-08-24 00:12:54 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-23#1011425 <<< lmao
ae7c272b96719e89…ba77810d…2022-08-24 00:13:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-23 18:59:33 phf[awt]: strongly correlated with the inability to bring up a pest station :}
b44e53e7ae7c272b…96719e89…2022-08-24 00:14:26 <shinohai> billymg I really appreciate your choice of background color for pest logs btw, makes night reading so much more enjoyable.
1ba02fb6eb42ccfa…eb42ccfa…2022-08-24 03:58:53 <billymg> i have to ask, is it the light theme or dark theme you're using? (or maybe you have your OS set to change based on the time of day)
a15c68cf1ba02fb6…1ba02fb6…2022-08-24 04:10:00 <billymg> the light theme is the only one i use now, despite dragging my feet in making it in the first place
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 59256a6afa484fa98132fc5bf9582beb3633ab6024cf9eb3f7993662b4f45522) prior to <bitbot> ---
387248b959256a6a…de1f0acc…2022-08-24 13:47:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-22 16:58:38 billymg: signpost: valid point. first and foremost i see pest as defensible territory designed to keep out heathens and agent provocateurs
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d0a7fc4cb21b4fcdc79f94442b2d21355e0f9ffeed10dc3008bc70aea0d84647) prior to <shinohai> ---
3f32f341d0a7fc4c…8ecf1923…2022-09-12 17:41:46 <shinohai> Yeah but despite you being warm yer nowhere in my peer list.
00f2dad942146892…d0a7fc4c…2022-09-12 17:42:38 <asciilifeform> shinohai: seeing you as hearsay atm so apparently not warm
ed1b9c723cf4d1e9…42146892…2022-09-12 17:43:13 <shinohai> I suspect "yet another db problem" is at fault here, but haven't had time to investigate. On TODO list is make a bash script to export full WOT from blatta
8bdd6ba0ed1b9c72…3cf4d1e9…2022-09-12 17:44:01 <asciilifeform> would be pretty handy. ditto for import.
a5c5db918bdd6ba0…ed1b9c72…2022-09-12 17:45:10 shinohai apologizes for his crude thinking - guess you could also do with native python, but I'm just better @ bash things ...
120c88dca5c5db91…a5c5db91…2022-09-12 17:46:43 <shinohai> Add to above list billymg, also does not show in peer list
d98335a2120c88dc…8bdd6ba0…2022-09-12 17:48:03 <asciilifeform> shinohai: shows in asciilifeform's; see if actually connects when you have the latest blatta, w/ addrcast
8076fcffd98335a2…d98335a2…2022-09-12 17:49:51 <asciilifeform> theoretically if all 3 have that one, and keys for ea. other, oughta connect
b3e255af3450eef8…698928e0…2022-09-12 19:09:46 <signpost> asciilifeform: bet ya have multiple shinohai keys as I had for various.
636a5649b3e255af…f1658722…2022-09-12 19:43:56 <awt> asciilifeform: as signpost suggests, possibly you have multiple keys for some peers.
898420f2f10c0d4e…f10c0d4e…2022-09-12 19:45:48 <signpost> join/parts seem to have stopped. just a bunch of ADDRESS CASTs going on in logs.
5a07a968898420f2…898420f2…2022-09-12 19:46:08 <signpost> maybe interaction between nodes of different version?
1e38afc19d327f0f…9d327f0f…2022-09-12 19:53:34 <signpost> curious if the thing's preoccupied with these address cast messages and that's introducing delay in processing other messages.
a81552f74ff72342…4ff72342…2022-09-12 19:58:55 <awt> signpost: I notice your ac messages come in pretty slowly, i.e. noticeable gap between when each arrives
59fddcb4a81552f7…1e38afc1…2022-09-12 20:00:31 <signpost> cpu usage of the blatta process has approx doubled since update
88a21b87a81552f7…a81552f7…2022-09-12 20:00:32 <awt> signpost: you can decrease the frequency by increasing the value of the address_cast_interval_seconds knob
a3e477832bb1dd68…2bb1dd68…2022-09-12 20:03:18 <signpost> eventually the hot loop in Server.start is probably going to need attention
426f8f90a3e47783…a3e47783…2022-09-12 20:03:41 <signpost> I wager I'm running this on one of the smaller boxes present
fdcc0828631df8c2…426f8f90…2022-09-12 20:04:45 <signpost> anyway just reporting what I see, and updating node quickly after release to help shake things loose.
c0b8dbd0fdcc0828…120c88dc…2022-09-12 20:05:48 <shinohai> lol I'm running pest on a 32 bit chinsesium phone.
76f448e0c0b8dbd0…fdcc0828…2022-09-12 20:08:16 <signpost> boog in lib/server.py#178, needs cast to int on the get_knob call
883f47c74c990adf…4c990adf…2022-09-12 20:08:46 <signpost> now seeing a flurry of "Peer with duplicate address or handle" messages
0fcba61238f4e77f…3450eef8…2022-09-12 20:11:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-12#1012729 << why would this be an eggog condition tho? >1 key for a peer is 100% normal per spec
929bea920fcba612…bd61c3d3…2022-09-12 20:12:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-12 15:44:48 awt: asciilifeform: as signpost suggests, possibly you have multiple keys for some peers.
fc889b53929bea92…0ab508ff…2022-09-12 20:12:02 <awt> asciilifeform: explained upstack that get_keyed_peers func needs more work
9b2eede9929bea92…38f4e77f…2022-09-12 20:12:12 <signpost> I now see my own IP in AT for phf and billymg.
bd698580fc889b53…9f77ac4c…2022-09-17 21:44:21 <awt> Oddly I'm seeing duplicate ac packets coming back to my station from PeterL and jonsykkel. Doesn't make sense because both of those stations should have received ac packets directly from my station first, and they should be in the long buffer.
a76aae9d9b2eede9…1d6ff8a1…2022-09-12 20:12:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: fwiw asciilifeform still sees at entry from 17 july for phf
a4606a099b2eede9…9b2eede9…2022-09-12 20:12:47 <signpost> asciilifeform: yup, I'm just reporting that it caused a bug in blatta.
ef90959fa4606a09…a76aae9d…2022-09-12 20:13:20 <asciilifeform> ( for crtdaydreams, shinohai, PeterL -- atm asciilifeform sees at entry from 31 july )
0f4f1ff6a4606a09…a4606a09…2022-09-12 20:14:42 <signpost> deleting peerings with phf and billymg (neither of which were operative before I updated) stopped the foom of warnings, but the fact that their AT entries got updated with my station's own IP says something's broken.
72a74901ef90959f…ef90959f…2022-09-12 20:13:41 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. from right prior to asciilifeform crating up his station for move )
af2f1ad40f4f1ff6…0f4f1ff6…2022-09-12 20:15:07 <signpost> cpu usage now bouncing between say 25-50% of one core on the apu2
8569f0cf72a74901…72a74901…2022-09-12 20:14:42 <asciilifeform> for bitbot -- 3 july. errybody else in asciilifeform's wot -- current
f69ae399e12fdb6d…e12fdb6d…2022-09-12 20:19:44 <awt> phf may have been connecting only via my station for some time
b0a5f288f69ae399…0fe90cbf…2022-09-12 20:20:47 <asciilifeform> awt: iirc he has own pestron and not sure whether supports addrcast etc
5d97a01530396c8b…f69ae399…2022-09-12 20:21:23 <awt> yes. his pestron only broadcasts to a single peer, afact, not to all.
618a7b9365468e22…051d133c…2022-09-12 20:33:28 <signpost> gonna leave mine up as is to see what other interesting stuff shakes loose
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 4d8e8c3351e66d9efda038f0bf2c12f3af9898f96a07cf6c71ec22c6817d915e) prior to <phf> ---
8b5630e9c6f86f71…f9054ca4…2022-09-18 16:54:58 <phf> yeah, but the context is #a, wherein we discuss the odd and strange delays on pest network
9641fa5d8b5630e9…c6f86f71…2022-09-18 16:55:08 <awt> I'm on 9972, yes, no prod loops, no cpu issues on this machine.
119cfd93dd1f5ed5…9a84d32b…2022-09-18 16:55:13 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-18 asciilifeform: a and still slow?
e2dab678119cfd93…dad10cf8…2022-09-18 17:00:04 <phf> well, i've updated my AT quite a while ago, and was sending "test transmit through awt". in fact things didn't start working until awt sent the "Hey phf" message above
be3cff25e2dab678…89276ec9…2022-09-18 17:00:23 <awt> that was immediately after I came back online at my old IP
c9e10b4677df94ff…8b5630e9…2022-09-18 16:56:07 <phf> i think i'm back to being near realtime, but the chain that was broken due to previous test messages been sitting in limbo for ~~5 minutes
dad10cf8c9e10b46…c9e10b46…2022-09-18 16:57:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-18#1013045 << also when you sent this message, did you just switch over the ip/client, or you've been on current setup for a while?
8c555a852dba3136…2dba3136…2022-09-18 17:02:18 <phf> well, then all the mysteries are solved. awt was down, my ATs were all out of date, asciilifeform's advertised ip is actually behind nat, dulapbot has always been magically and mysteriously delayed. i think that covers it
1b0c8185dad10cf8…14d151f3…2022-09-18 16:57:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 12:48:52 awt: Hey phf was testing from behind a firewall on another IP for a while this morning
22ab3a698c555a85…be3cff25…2022-09-18 17:02:55 <awt> lol yes. I can't seem to connect to asciilifeform from behind a nat either.
7bf60e991b0c8185…77df94ff…2022-09-18 16:57:25 <awt> in blatta the default order buffer expiration is 180s
e7bd2b1322ab3a69…547a290e…2022-09-18 17:02:56 asciilifeform thinking about it, doesn't recall ever actually turning the embargo knob on dulapbot down from 180
845438eb7bf60e99…7bf60e99…2022-09-18 16:57:48 <awt> shamefully for a couple minutes this morning I was operating from 2 ips
8f2d72cee7bd2b13…e7bd2b13…2022-09-18 17:03:51 asciilifeform on local rack recently installed a new pfsense box and oughta take anuther look at the config, strongly suspects the fwd rule aint actually wurking
89276ec9845438eb…845438eb…2022-09-18 16:58:09 <awt> forgot to shutdown the station on my laptop before starting up on the server
210e9c908f2d72ce…8c555a85…2022-09-18 17:04:37 <phf> i suspect we might need stations in variety of configurations. one useful thing to have would be a station without operator, that acts more like a backbone: no retransmit delays, doesn't do its own chain discovery, mostly concerned with maintaininig healthy AT, etc.
8280912589276ec9…dd1f5ed5…2022-09-18 16:58:12 <asciilifeform> that'll do interesting things to chain
af33b2de210e9c90…8f2d72ce…2022-09-18 17:08:52 asciilifeform suspects that once erryone has working addrcast, and has at least 1 peer that doesn't habitually wander away ( e.g. the racked bots ) the 'came back from beach and ugh can't connect to anyone' headache will largely evaporate
44a96e55af33b2de…210e9c90…2022-09-18 17:10:09 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-17#1013014 << it was not like the typical perturbator output, that seem to be default soundtrack in hackerspaces and nerd get togethers. i think the health&petrurbator combo are supposed to be some kind of noise/industrial/witchhouse/salem thing. it was less synthwave and more i dunno in
262db66244a96e55…44a96e55…2022-09-18 17:10:09 <phf> dustrial rock? the sound system was also pretty bad. i very much enjoyed the experience because i was just flying round in the moshpit, which was also at the center of the acoustic noise cone. my friends here were sitting down thought it mostly sucked.
3177693844a96e55…1b0c8185…2022-09-18 17:10:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-17 01:13:11 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012988 << ah I like that song Excess by Perturbator. believe I've heard the other band but can't recall.
934ff3f331776938…262db662…2022-09-18 17:11:04 <phf> the general theme was a kind of rehash of the early 2000s: "i'm a piece of shit trash, so lets just shoot heroin and die, idk"
7cc9a7e3934ff3f3…934ff3f3…2022-09-18 17:14:00 <phf> but reinacted by middle class nerds, who bought fresh hot topic shit for the occassion :} it was a very polite mosh, without much bottoming out. you could kind of see people going "ow too much too much i'm not feeling comfortable about all this, but i'm going to act cool somewhere else"
7bbd274865e6d92c…7cc9a7e3…2022-09-18 17:17:41 <phf> asciilifeform, it's when you surrender to the experience, without much concern for physical consequences
eb3b5aca7bbd2748…7bbd2748…2022-09-18 17:21:00 <phf> like a fat dude killing a can of beer, smashing it on his head, rushing the mosh, wiping out, accidentally getting his teeth kicked out while on the ground, then getting up while grinning through blood, and rushing the mosh again
eddbe7cd4b65f089…4b65f089…2022-09-18 18:27:14 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-17#1013018 << i generally don't like indie riffs, even with country folk affectation. it reminds me of late 90s early 2000s american tv show thing, where they would have some guest band play at the local in-show bar. the one tree hill weekly guest band.
ac5ff3cbeddbe7cd…31776938…2022-09-18 18:27:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-17 01:15:39 signpost: incidentally just got in from seeing the mountain goats, was great, if you're into that earnest folk music dork thing, which I am.
ef2450a6ac5ff3cb…eddbe7cd…2022-09-18 18:32:09 <phf> i went to an appalachian fest yesterday, had some pretty nice lineup, and i like that among that traditional bluegrass bands that's been coming there for years you also have a bunch of hipster bands doing a kind of medley of appalachian/irish/scottish covers
902f673eef2450a6…ef2450a6…2022-09-18 18:36:07 <phf> e.g. these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHkSYgzWiLk
8804882b902f673e…65e6d92c…2022-09-18 21:50:51 <asciilifeform> unrelatedly, apparent perma-gap in dulapbot's log ( compare w/ bitdash )
021909248804882b…119cfd93…2022-09-18 21:50:51 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 12:58:12 asciilifeform: that'll do interesting things to chain
8a11eada8804882b…ac5ff3cb…2022-09-18 21:51:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 12:59:09 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|crawlerbot]: ( if there were a working fork detector, oughta've gone off errywhere )
be78beb897f4e1c9…97f4e1c9…2022-09-18 21:52:04 <asciilifeform> this 1 esp. odd considering that asciilifeform is one of the few folx directly peered to it
c7107a7dbe78beb8…be78beb8…2022-09-18 21:53:02 asciilifeform gearing up to make yer anuther attempt to load the embargo logic in curr. blatta into head
f3bd9785c7107a7d…c7107a7d…2022-09-18 21:53:22 asciilifeform looking fwd to publication of phf's cl proto
ef18143ff3bd9785…22ab3a69…2022-09-18 22:00:04 <awt> Anyone interested in trying a blatta that uses mcrypt serpent?
913aa36a68a9bca9…1c00231a…2022-09-18 23:06:42 <awt> Only thing preventing me from doing a release right now is I'm still seeing some cold peers being updated to my own ip.
741cdbe78308c7cc…913aa36a…2022-09-18 23:10:47 <awt> phf: more serious crypto lib recommended by authors of pure python serpent currently in use: http://mcrypt.sourceforge.net/
a2040599741cdbe7…8308c7cc…2022-09-18 23:11:10 <phf> also one perhaps not kosher but pragmatic solution to "crypto in python slow" is to cffi to openssl :>
725e779985197547…85197547…2022-09-18 23:12:05 <phf> ah mcrypt looks like that very "c lib of some sort"
7b930f16afd98305…725e7799…2022-09-18 23:13:56 <phf> cool. i'll take a look at it also, because i've been considering doing an ffi to openssl. perhaps not a permanent solution, but a stop gap before i extract and optimize relevant code from ironclad
0bee678e7b930f16…afd98305…2022-09-18 23:18:58 <awt> Actually, the latest blatta disables ac by default, so the self-address bug can be avoided for now at least by simply not using AC. Can at least test out potential "prod loop" fix and see if mcrypt speeds up blatta on lower powered machines.
6c6ab6000bee678e…0bee678e…2022-09-18 23:40:44 <awt> Ah hmm last instance of the self address bug could have been due to having multiple stations using the same keys at different ips.
1fbbf54688b37330…7b930f16…2022-09-18 23:59:00 <phf> asciilifeform, no. (i just discovered that, the thought was in the back of my mind, rather than explored option)
52e960691912845a…1fbbf546…2022-09-19 00:06:04 <phf> yeah, could combine classic c serpent, and sha256/512 from busybox into a lib, ffi into it, cffi from python, etc.
c98ac6968c630fd7…8c630fd7…2022-09-19 00:03:04 <asciilifeform> ACTION orthogonally: thinking re when is the correct time, hypothetically, for station to hammer ports. imho oughta be when received addrcast, and knows that atm peer is live, but attempt to connect to the ephemeral port in the addrcast not resulted in war
aa98431252e96069…b07c2c39…2022-09-19 00:06:07 <asciilifeform> ( as asciilifeform understands, it will do so tho )
441f6bd3c98ac696…02190924…2022-09-19 00:03:05 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-18 asciilifeform: we'll need this, eventually, asciilifeform suspects, for 'final solution to nat'
befabcdbaa984312…aa984312…2022-09-19 00:08:09 <asciilifeform> ( each station will receive addrcast from the other; then $interval elapses w/out connection in the usual way; then each starts hammer and continues until connects )
1864967e441f6bd3…c98ac696…2022-09-19 00:03:49 <asciilifeform> ... not resulted in warm peer within some interval
db786de01864967e…1864967e…2022-09-19 00:04:05 <asciilifeform> hrm thought the msg procrustation was fixed in 9973 lol
e6e22d12d6f92ddc…441f6bd3…2022-09-19 00:10:18 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-07 11:00:58 asciilifeform: afaik with 'symmetric' nats of the type apparently victimizing jonsykkel , the only drill that worx is to hammer random ports, from both directions, until match
b07c2c39db786de0…db786de0…2022-09-19 00:05:48 <asciilifeform> thing is, the hammer gotta work from ~both~ ends
5584c60ce6e22d12…a4d59034…2022-09-19 00:15:11 <awt> [9971 with mcrypt, potential prod loop fix, ac disabled by default][http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/]
e5bc4b855584c60c…5584c60c…2022-09-19 00:16:14 <awt> Due to flow of liquishit, won't have much time to debug/support tomorrow - fri.
961485c4e5bc4b85…e5bc4b85…2022-09-19 00:17:03 <awt> Also, if you don't have mcrypt built, should still "magically" just work using pure python. It will emit warnings in the log, however.
7995886c961485c4…68a9bca9…2022-09-19 00:19:20 <signpost> awt: cool, will give that a try. will note any problems here, but don't take it as a demand to stop what you're doing and address immed.
670b04a97995886c…7995886c…2022-09-19 00:26:23 <signpost> awt: fwiw the try...except blocks without specific errors to catch are going to swallow bugs and cause you pain later
d986e225670b04a9…670b04a9…2022-09-19 00:26:57 <signpost> oughta probably do the pivot on whether mcrypt is available on an ImportError handler
adf9d7efd986e225…d986e225…2022-09-19 00:27:50 <signpost> would you mind linking the mcrypt you recommend using?
3057b0c348f2dac8…056ba8dd…2022-09-19 00:32:43 <awt> Still seeing up to 45% cpu on out outgoing ac bursts. Gotta smooth that out.
2723e3d071e85233…48f2dac8…2022-09-19 00:36:20 <signpost> awt: knob cast b00g http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=E7tB
e13e78cf2723e3d0…2723e3d0…2022-09-19 00:38:42 <signpost> lemme make sure that isn't my own src manglement, gonna re-press
812b329ee13e78cf…3057b0c3…2022-09-19 00:43:48 <awt> odd. I added in the interpret_none_as_zero method for that case.
d2a4f6f4812b329e…e13e78cf…2022-09-19 00:44:06 <signpost> yeah I'd hand-mangled the file already, my fault
a6508b19759d8c44…759d8c44…2022-09-19 00:45:28 <awt> ok what I'm seeing now is deedbot repeatedly prodding my station
bf4298334aaad78e…a6508b19…2022-09-19 00:46:39 <awt> my theory was that prod_interval_seconds was being interpreted incorrectly somehow and causing a prod every time the event loop runs.
d7c5828d1ce8b792…f2d86895…2022-09-19 00:51:50 <signpost> yeah, was doing some getdata, now not sure, no output yet
45f9252bd7c5828d…1ce8b792…2022-09-19 00:52:14 <awt> embargoed for default period of 100+ secs likely
83d5b7238a5498f1…dd19cf8b…2022-09-19 01:02:18 <phf> well, it's fairly obvious that embargo has an effect, but what i don't i understand. so packet goes into embargo, getdata for rest of chain comes out, at that point there should be enough packets to release all the embargoed stuff, why does it still hang?
69c3461f83d5b723…8a5498f1…2022-09-19 01:03:28 <awt> phf: the algo is messages get dumped from the embargo not when the ancestor comes in, but simply after embargo period expires.
118d1ce68949bb89…06c0b797…2022-09-19 01:04:50 <awt> Was optimized for first sync, assuming a large backlog
dac4f8327458bd14…7458bd14…2022-09-19 01:28:56 <awt> Ah just thought of another way you could end up with self-addressed peers
dee26367dac4f832…dac4f832…2022-09-19 01:29:16 <awt> You blast out ac, shut down your station, then immediately start it up.
8bf6d99fdee26367…dee26367…2022-09-19 01:30:02 <awt> Since blatta only keeps ac hashes in memory, any of your ac messages that might come back to you will not be detected as dupes after you restart.
6ab452d68bf6d99f…cc3f4843…2022-09-19 02:31:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-18#1013174 << thing is, it seems to happen to immediate msgs (e.g. asciilifeform -> dulapbot ) , and not only to hearsays
a65f3b8b6ab452d6…8a11eada…2022-09-19 02:32:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 21:04:07 awt: phf: the algo is messages get dumped from the embargo not when the ancestor comes in, but simply after embargo period expires.
6d1d46eba65f3b8b…6ab452d6…2022-09-19 02:32:08 <asciilifeform> per spec, immediates only get embargoed if mischained
eff3dc2b6d1d46eb…6d1d46eb…2022-09-19 02:32:33 <asciilifeform> but seems to happen erry single time anyffin (incl. immed from asciilifeform) hits dulapbot
259195a8eff3dc2b…eff3dc2b…2022-09-19 02:33:39 <asciilifeform> or hm, looking at debug log, is consistent w/ the picture where hearsay hits it, and gets in the chain b/w 2 asciilifeform -> dulapbot immed msgs. so not mystery, nm
57ac2378259195a8…259195a8…2022-09-19 02:36:26 <asciilifeform> ( and yea the order buffer oughta evict when either timeout or ancestor is found , this will be in 0xfa spec )
7a7e005ddea24814…e6e22d12…2022-09-19 02:38:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 14:35:41 asciilifeform: ... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron.
611906b5a14748b8…dea24814…2022-09-19 02:39:25 asciilifeform wrote spec strongly around the assumption that frontend is irclike and therefore must attempt to squeeze output to console in sumthing maximally approaching a logical order
40141ef0611906b5…611906b5…2022-09-19 02:40:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-18#1013124 << will test tomorrow
e9c1111640141ef0…a65f3b8b…2022-09-19 02:41:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 20:15:50 awt: [9971 with mcrypt, potential prod loop fix, ac disabled by default][http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/]
6ed8d916f3278503…b5430ba3…2023-02-17 17:07:56 <cgra> getdata c3914075ef8df5c8b48a1e405b1171edb6b900ed81139c984938264077cbcd20 billymg
getdata b880b4d2dd29f4516a9009bd1236d62a38f992c18ce22a9d12a05ce794aaa542 billymg
getdata 544f4cdacc0f08f3fb278434a37289f05574bdd85f1dad09554edc5f24f63a1a billymg
getdata b89568c80c1f7fd5676e08c1e129de1d7ba805db2441ecf3eb04c1b0a6555f08 billymg
79cf230295c88979…f42a0ca1…2023-02-17 17:22:27 <awt> cgra: the console window is gonna be nice. Typing commands into the message box is inevitably going to cause pain.
0cdb8a1179cf2302…9a1fad20…2023-02-17 17:31:20 <asciilifeform> awt: in asciilifeform's proto, console is a tab window, eats various commands
4ab0d764b9c7171b…b9c7171b…2023-02-17 17:43:14 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023443 << don't know for sure but if any of the non-x86 boxes in their current lineup could it would be the 'macbook pro' or the 'mac studio'
6f63ab774ab0d764…7333451c…2023-02-17 17:37:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 11:45:51 asciilifeform[4]: phf ( or any other folx who operate crapple irons ) -- know whether crapple sells a box that can drive 3 'displayport' outputs ?
211bad7f4d7d9e9f…4d7d9e9f…2023-02-17 17:37:14 <asciilifeform> billymg: reading their brochure, seems like both of these require 1 out to be via hdmi
be2a733efff305e7…fff305e7…2023-02-17 17:38:42 <asciilifeform> ( if wondering wai would giveashit -- asciilifeform's kvm eats strictly displayport, and hdmi->displayport requires an active box, and asciilifeform tried half dozen vendors for the latter, none of'em work reliably )
ffbf37babe2a733e…4ab0d764…2023-02-17 17:46:40 <billymg> asciilifeform: ah found it: "Up to four external displays: Up to three external displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI"
b8828e373ee4414d…be2a733e…2023-02-17 17:40:20 <asciilifeform> billymg: ty. ( not aboutta entomb a lappy in the rack tho )
ed3a7413b8828e37…b8828e37…2023-02-17 17:40:56 <asciilifeform> seems like none of their low-end 'bricks' do it, at 1st glance
195699c7ed3a7413…3ee4414d…2023-02-17 17:48:07 <billymg> asciilifeform: from mac studio specs: "Support for up to four Pro Display XDRs (6K resolution at 60Hz and over a billion colors) over USB-C and one 4K display (4K resolution at 60Hz and over a billion colors) over HDMI"
b8e3be33179179fa…ed3a7413…2023-02-17 17:42:15 <asciilifeform> a, ty. maybe will use that 1 ( egregious, imho, that 4k$+ and soldered-on hdd, lol, tho )
722663edb8e3be33…b8e3be33…2023-02-17 17:44:00 <asciilifeform> wonder if that thing has same problem as prev. crapples (loses order of displays ~errytime the kvm switches)
74723f05722663ed…722663ed…2023-02-17 17:45:13 asciilifeform lulzily, nao on 3rd year of hunting for any possible replacement for his kvm, but there's still exactly 1 chipset that does '3x4'
092ba68a74723f05…179179fa…2023-02-17 17:52:32 <billymg> asciilifeform: seems for that model you can still get the same display support on the "cheap" ($2k) model
516d4aec092ba68a…74723f05…2023-02-17 17:45:55 <asciilifeform> billymg: rright but then yer stuck with toy ram/disk
4c61a539e07e0bdb…0ea29c70…2023-02-17 17:50:20 asciilifeform luckily not relies on crapple heavily, but is embroiled in certain commercial liquishit which runs there, so has for many yrs kept 1 around and periodically used
b3cb83ec4c61a539…16ea0226…2023-02-17 17:54:24 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023443 << no idea, mac's been collecting dust for about 1.5yr
4a020c5fb3cb83ec…6f63ab77…2023-02-17 17:55:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 11:45:51 asciilifeform[4]: phf ( or any other folx who operate crapple irons ) -- know whether crapple sells a box that can drive 3 'displayport' outputs ?
5eedb7d54a020c5f…4c61a539…2023-02-17 17:55:09 asciilifeform has also been carrying on a crapple port of gui pestron proto (for use on lappies) but developing on lappy has proved physically unpleasant
eabbf5495eedb7d5…5eedb7d5…2023-02-17 17:58:13 <asciilifeform> signpost: crapple seems to be carrying on their 'fine tradition' of snipping previously-commonplace pheatures from their irons and repackaging at 2-3x multiple of cost in 'pro' version
e7b022caeabbf549…eabbf549…2023-02-17 17:58:36 <asciilifeform> ( and sometimes, as with ability to replace ram/disk -- in no version at all )
8ce76c8ce7b022ca…b3cb83ec…2023-02-17 18:00:49 <signpost> sounds about right. mac's about 10% of their revenue these days.
cb2bc4dc8ce76c8c…8ce76c8c…2023-02-17 18:01:05 <signpost> at some point they'll just slap an attached keyboard on an iPad and call it a day.
69ea72868ce76c8c…e07e0bdb…2023-02-17 18:08:04 <billymg> asciilifeform: you vill own nothing and you vill be happy
db90623ccb2bc4dc…e7b022ca…2023-02-17 18:01:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: from iron pov, their current lappy is moar or less that already
5e85d30ddb90623c…cb2bc4dc…2023-02-17 18:02:24 <signpost> in unrelated news, phf is right. half of "AI" is trans weebs.
f8aa7ed9db90623c…db90623c…2023-02-17 18:02:36 <asciilifeform> ( tho, interestingly, that thing is in fact the fastest (single-threaded, at any rate) box in asciilifeform's torture room, lol
313e5af7f8aa7ed9…4a020c5f…2023-02-17 18:04:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 13:32:55 asciilifeform[5]: phf: moar re new crapples : on 'm2' fanless lappy, built ffa, and this benchmark ran in 1min 41s.
3e934e0e313e5af7…914591a1…2023-02-17 18:03:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: this re the 'tab complete ai' service from earlier thrd ?
ec6ab4a8ab4b2399…ab4b2399…2023-02-17 18:04:12 <signpost> seeing for what evils it can be used, if any
3bab2bf0ec6ab4a8…3e934e0e…2023-02-17 18:10:22 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023481 << leased irons, incidentally, aint new, but rather a return to 'bad old days' of monopolies ( ibm's leased mainframes, at&t phone, etc ) and their return is unsurprising in context of collapse
ee1d5f2b3bab2bf0…72ebb76f…2023-02-17 18:10:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: see e.g. ancient orc proverb, 'how do you make a cow eat less and give more milk?' 'feed it less, milk it more'
edfe4f943bab2bf0…313e5af7…2023-02-17 18:11:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:02:18 billymg: asciilifeform: you vill own nothing and you vill be happy
21b591a5edfe4f94…3bab2bf0…2023-02-17 18:11:30 <asciilifeform> ( similarly to how 'software as service'(tm) is a return to ye olde time-sharing systems )
b9d4f05b21b591a5…21b591a5…2023-02-17 18:13:37 <asciilifeform> ... in particular, is imho precisely what one'd expect in context of 'death of moore's law'. vendor cannot live if is enuff for user to buy 1 box and sit on it for 20+y until the capacitors pop
2952576cb9d4f05b…79cf2302…2023-02-17 18:13:57 <awt> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=cue7 << interesting doxxing
73e177442952576c…b9d4f05b…2023-02-17 18:15:35 <asciilifeform> awt: loox liek standard prb fluff piece ( where's the interesting part.. ? )
ec20880b913586b8…73e17744…2023-02-17 18:18:12 <asciilifeform> fluff in the 'prb is bitcoin!'(tm)(r) party line invariably baked into these
a4844312ec20880b…913586b8…2023-02-17 18:20:21 <awt> Article title: "Bitcoin’s Future Depends on a Handful of Mysterious Coders"
12b01bd501931419…01931419…2023-02-17 18:22:25 <asciilifeform> the hilarious bit naodays is that prb is irrelevant not because seekrit 'heart' of trb-compat. noades, but because ~nobody is actually using bitcoin afaik
80c7073f01931419…ec6ab4a8…2023-02-17 18:22:58 <signpost> https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/ << the bug they mention was introduced rather recently.
dc4007f012b01bd5…ee1d5f2b…2023-02-17 18:22:26 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 14:17:41 asciilifeform: signpost: wouldn't surprise asciilifeform if turns out that the 'halving vs exchrate' patter no longer holds anymoar, nao that 'no actual btc harmed in the making of this film'(tm) gox-powered arse-mouth-system 'economy' prevails
0b3e44c3dc4007f0…12b01bd5…2023-02-17 18:23:04 <asciilifeform> quite similarly to the irrelevant of physical au to 'metals market'
5628c4a2ca9cdad8…ca9cdad8…2023-02-17 18:24:15 <asciilifeform> ( these lulz have worked in precisely same way since e.g. 'heartbleed' )
150679cc5628c4a2…d372771d…2023-02-17 18:25:39 <signpost> yep, behold as central banks are all apparently loading up on gold, and exchange rate is currently around what it was in 2011
b46a5632150679cc…5628c4a2…2023-02-17 18:25:59 <asciilifeform> noshit, cuz what they 'loaded up on' is vapour.
906db0a3b3d49a8a…b3d49a8a…2023-02-17 18:26:23 <signpost> best optimizations are stacked optimizations
5d9f731e906db0a3…b46a5632…2023-02-17 18:26:49 <asciilifeform> loltimized, and openly brag of 'covert fixes' etc
0146a6d35d9f731e…5d9f731e…2023-02-17 18:27:08 <asciilifeform> hey, the dough for these derps to eat gotta come from somewhere, neh
4b5ebf2e0146a6d3…0146a6d3…2023-02-17 18:28:00 <asciilifeform> quite possibly, nsa is the only 'sponsor' remaining
b67ef2d04b5ebf2e…4b5ebf2e…2023-02-17 18:29:53 <asciilifeform> goxes maintaining the pretense that lusers 'can withdraw actual btc on-chain' not requires any kinda high-quality softs.
f9e3b12db67ef2d0…b67ef2d0…2023-02-17 18:30:09 asciilifeform wonders when the remnants of that pretense will finally evaporate
8409256df9e3b12d…906db0a3…2023-02-17 18:30:41 <signpost> I wager they'll just make BTC an "accredited investor" thing
09c1e427ba8d87cb…f9e3b12d…2023-02-17 18:36:09 <asciilifeform> signpost: afaik the current 'lock' is entirely satisfactory
93adedaa09c1e427…09c1e427…2023-02-17 18:36:22 <asciilifeform> y'know, precisely like for physical au.
697e0f6993adedaa…ba8d87cb…2023-02-17 18:36:45 <signpost> nah, can still pull BTC out of kraken and coinbase to 1address to this day.
cda1682d697e0f69…93adedaa…2023-02-17 18:36:51 <asciilifeform> ( can go and buy all the au bricks you like, it'll be 'worth' what the paper pushers decide it is 'worth' )
0bd379e2697e0f69…697e0f69…2023-02-17 18:37:10 <signpost> but I do think they'll close that down to "non-accredited"
dac510fbcda1682d…8af3d545…2023-02-17 18:37:33 <signpost> ah sure, no question. both items are a bet on the death of USD.
d904aa2c0bd379e2…cda1682d…2023-02-17 18:37:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: satisfying a plebe's 'lemme withdraw my 0.5' is quite cheap.
8a5b9c7ed904aa2c…dac510fb…2023-02-17 18:37:55 <signpost> or at least mega-diminution from reserve currency of rock 3
3af03e7e8a5b9c7e…d904aa2c…2023-02-17 18:39:08 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'they'll ban goxes! finally!' imho is an unattainable dream. goxes are the key instrument of paperization and exchrate control.
e4c099ea3af03e7e…dc4007f0…2023-02-17 18:39:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and
69882d77e4c099ea…3af03e7e…2023-02-17 18:40:21 <asciilifeform> recall how au aficionados have been jacking off to 'fdr will return from grave and ban our bricks' for nearly century
bf93156e69882d77…69882d77…2023-02-17 18:40:41 <asciilifeform> is no accident that no one since the brain-damaged fuhrer did any such thing
a74c272abf93156e…8a5b9c7e…2023-02-17 18:41:55 <signpost> not ban. the beoble will be able to have their kraken account with $x "BTC"
b585c6a8b829de90…e4c099ea…2023-02-17 18:41:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:05:47 asciilifeform: billymg: per asciilifeform's pov, worst thing that's happened to bitcoin to date was its 2010s 'legalization' and the 'institutional' 'law-abiding' vermin crawling in and pumping/dumping
91ac1623a74c272a…b829de90…2023-02-17 18:44:30 <asciilifeform> as fishing worx over9000 better with the worm than without, the pretense of 'can withdraw btc' is inexpensive to satisfy, rather like how the au chumpatrons will happily ship you a brick (just not 1000 bricks)
17019f0891ac1623…91ac1623…2023-02-17 18:45:45 <asciilifeform> already erry gox to date worked a++ until someone 'asked for withdraw of 1000 bricks'
1ef143e817019f08…17019f08…2023-02-17 18:48:01 <asciilifeform> point being, if not obv, that the linkage of paperolade to physical au / chained btc / etc., however tenuous, is still req'd to properly control the exchrate of the real thing
b70c5d761ef143e8…1ef143e8…2023-02-17 18:49:46 <asciilifeform> failing this, 'real thing' becomes a 'teleportable cocaine' and exchrate --> maxint.
5e3f82701cbd4518…1cbd4518…2023-02-17 18:54:40 <asciilifeform> bans in such case do ~0 (possession of au/usd in qty in orcistan was a hanging offense). folx in reich would already save in cocaine if the latter were instantly authenticable and not inflationary (the cartels afaik do a decent job ensuring that it is inflationary)
c8042cfd5e3f8270…5e3f8270…2023-02-17 18:57:12 <asciilifeform> not even speaking of 'teleportable cocaine'.
34561f3ac8042cfd…c8042cfd…2023-02-17 18:59:10 <asciilifeform> there are already reich subjects who 'save in'... machine guns. with all the obv. pitfalls.
af054e1984565534…84565534…2023-02-17 19:26:54 <awt> Just set my station's address_cast_interval_seconds knob to 3600, ftr, in order to reduce spam until I can get a patch out.
dbb1e90baf054e19…af054e19…2023-02-17 19:32:38 <awt> Patch will send ac spam on: launch, address change, peer creation age > current_time - new_peer_ac_cutoff_seconds
377629037e3b1c4d…69ea7286…2023-02-17 21:20:23 <billymg> awt, or others on twitter, what's all this "ordinals" noise about?
b46caafb37762903…37762903…2023-02-17 21:22:53 <billymg> i haven't bothered to look, but seem to remember seeing somewhere how they're loading arbitrary data (jpegs in this case) into the part of a segwit transaction reserved for the wit, and apparently this part has no space constraint?
8ea9eb7db46caafb…b46caafb…2023-02-17 21:23:17 <billymg> is that description anywhere remotely close to what that thing is supposed to be or how it's supposed to work?
401d4cfc8ea9eb7d…a74c272a…2023-02-17 21:18:00 <signpost> https://docs.ordinals.com/ << you can apparently study ordinal theory here billymg
bb9dd4c9401d4cfc…edfe4f94…2023-02-17 21:19:15 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-28 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other chicks can code moments, "I earned my degree and license in cosmetology and had a horrible career as a hair dresser that I ended in 2015 due to social anxiety. I still love hair theory, and I even really enjoy working on people with whom I share a close relationship,
39e79299bb9dd4c9…34561f3a…2023-02-17 21:22:08 <asciilifeform> billymg: see ancient #t logs, this lul appeared in 2010s as 'coloured coins'
57d755bc5f6b55ad…5f6b55ad…2023-02-17 21:23:31 <asciilifeform> there's no theoretical limit to shitcoin proliferation -- next yr some huckster will offer 'serialized satoshis' in reversed order, or whatever nonsense, get'em onto goxes, and siphon some coin from gullible tards. rinse, repeat.
c0b5146657d755bc…8ea9eb7d…2023-02-17 21:30:37 <billymg> asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i assumed it was as well
3b22201bc0b51466…c0b51466…2023-02-17 21:31:33 billymg will look again to see if i can find where it said that this new scheme stores data on the actual (segwit) blockchain and that the size is unrestricted
c16d9fd63b22201b…401d4cfc…2023-02-17 21:25:08 <signpost> would be entertaining if they snuck a runaway disk-space eater into prb
7862efd9c16d9fd6…3b22201b…2023-02-17 21:36:17 <billymg> signpost: i was thinking it would be the perfect opportunity for a pro-trb / anti-segwit propaganda push
268ea1f77862efd9…7862efd9…2023-02-17 21:37:04 <billymg> hrm, not "unlimited" though: "As a result, anyone can now store unlimited amounts of data with this function by paying for it, as long as the total block size remains under 4 MB."
c47f6280268ea1f7…268ea1f7…2023-02-17 21:37:21 <billymg> that type of wording must have been where i got the "unlimited" notion from before
6875e3bdc47f6280…c47f6280…2023-02-17 21:37:41 <billymg> but nonetheless an easy way to generate spam and max out each block
66fa85ac6875e3bd…7e3b1c4d…2023-02-17 21:37:58 <awt> apparently wherever "ordinals" are stored is offered at a subsidised price.
ada7f9ca651eecef…66fa85ac…2023-02-17 21:56:14 <awt> billymg: this explains it pretty well: https://learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/transaction-weight "This weight measurement basically gives the validation part of a transaction (the signature data) a discount, so it doesn’t take up as much “space” inside a block. In other words, the signature data is less costly than th
12a6a356761b69bd…57d755bc…2023-02-17 22:09:00 asciilifeform lulz at the derps marketing space on ~other folx's~ hdds
d0b45b9c12a6a356…12a6a356…2023-02-17 22:09:26 <asciilifeform> incidentally, equally tru of the original
80d4a28fcba659db…b585c6a8…2023-02-17 22:09:58 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-08 asciilifeform: i.e. the 'responsibility collapse triangle' of collectivist failure where there's 'users' who 'just want', and a set of 'providers' who are to supply the thing they 'just want', and somehow they are to live happily-ever-a
9c4fc37180d4a28f…cba659db…2023-02-17 22:14:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023562 << fwiw folx have been stuffing arbitrary bits into blocks, in various ways, since almost day0. this costs tho, and so was not commonly done without 'reason'
5c56c94f9c4fc371…bb9dd4c9…2023-02-17 22:16:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 16:26:22 signpost: would be entertaining if they snuck a runaway disk-space eater into prb
62937f5b5c56c94f…9c4fc371…2023-02-17 22:15:42 <asciilifeform> ( 'reason' was mostly the reich-sponsored 'stress test' of '16-18, to help spread 'blox are toosmall!' fud )
d01c204062937f5b…c16d9fd6…2023-02-17 22:16:04 signpost not familiar, but looks at brief glance like moving dbcoin and IOUcoin is popular enough that block space is cheap.
77f20bd3d01c2040…d01c2040…2023-02-17 22:16:14 <signpost> and made slightly cheaper with this hack that crams the dickbutt.gif into the sig
58acb7c6763ab1b4…62937f5b…2023-02-17 22:19:32 asciilifeform was aboutta ask 'what stops $derp2 from stuffing a dickbutt2.gif, visually indistinguishable but binary-unidentical to $derp1's dickbutt.gif into the block and 'marketing' same' but realized that the answr, as with prior hash schemes, not matters 1 whit
adc1f8c258acb7c6…763ab1b4…2023-02-17 22:19:53 <signpost> https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-size.html#3y << looks like yep
e4cb10e1adc1f8c2…58acb7c6…2023-02-17 22:24:13 <asciilifeform> luckily, participation in this idiocy is (as was with 'coloured coins', 'nft', etc. garbage) -- 100% optional
5873300ce4cb10e1…e4cb10e1…2023-02-17 22:24:43 <asciilifeform> in this case not even competes for space in actual blox.
204422d15873300c…5873300c…2023-02-17 22:29:28 <asciilifeform> scammers will not likely give up attempts to 'replay 2009' by convincing morons that $item-created-from-thin-air is 'valuable'.
c0c728da204422d1…80d4a28f…2023-02-17 22:29:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-18 asciilifeform: erryone wants to 'be satoshi'. how to achieve this if not by somehow replaying history with $perp at 'the center'.
55a128f4c0c728da…204422d1…2023-02-17 22:30:51 <asciilifeform> considering how easy and cheap it is, and fact that 'sucker born erryminute', will never become -ev, either
e4bcd406f6b92414…f6b92414…2023-02-17 22:34:19 <asciilifeform> 'numismatics' is precisely the correct analogy -- buncha idjit idlers convince ea. other that penny with the face struck backwards or whatnot, 'valuable', happily sell'em to 1 anuther for 1000$; entirely harmless to other folx
53effe00ae37e817…ae37e817…2022-10-19 11:52:43 <unpx> My ssh connection is shitty tho, checking later
ae3cb6a053effe00…53effe00…2022-10-19 12:41:52 <unpx> Hello, I'm figuring out if I have to fix the fork
ef4329c0245d6570…9f608406…2022-10-19 14:31:06 <asciilifeform> unpx: there are over9000 of these gratuitously complex horrors
d8567e34245d6570…245d6570…2022-10-19 18:39:09 <unpx> asciilifeform: I've been studying to get almost there. Algebraic Cryptography mostly for now. But then I'd like to settle on my own stuff and play.
b7381b5c1a404a30…ff5dcc35…2022-10-19 14:32:31 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-01-20 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: good # of'em want to 'look' 'clever' to 'make tenure' etc
4f456d6197360a64…97360a64…2022-10-19 18:42:25 <unpx> May even do Pest protocol security ``proof'' as exercise. (proof as in type theory -- maybe if I'll have time Petri net could be a thing too)
655b42f7b7381b5c…1a404a30…2022-10-19 14:34:07 <asciilifeform> ... chock-fulla 'random oracles', 'byzantine consensus', & other academiwankage artifacts.
835d5ea94f456d61…60c200a6…2022-10-19 18:43:36 <asciilifeform> unpx: only if you assume that the cipher & hmac aint breakable (then -- elementary, there's justabout nuffin to 'prove')
2fb03fc14f456d61…4f456d61…2022-10-19 18:44:41 <unpx> That's the main point of protocol proof afaik. Serpent is an exercise for this semester. Been studying finite fields and now getting into non-linearity and so on
49309aa8655b42f7…b7381b5c…2022-10-19 14:34:07 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-08-09 asciilifeform: replete with magicnumbers, 'random oracle' assumptions, 'perfect hash', and other maculae
7dc16e3b835d5ea9…835d5ea9…2022-10-19 18:44:32 <asciilifeform> the boojum is that we haven't ANY such proof, other than for ye olde otp.
119139422fb03fc1…2fb03fc1…2022-10-19 18:45:36 <unpx> asciilifeform: I don't get if I'm connected with you or if I'm hopping via crtdaydreams. Just in case >>> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-19#1114131
32e328ca49309aa8…655b42f7…2022-10-19 14:36:24 <asciilifeform> no 'journal of cryptology'(tm)(r)(c) is aboutta print the pest spec, given as 'simple like kalashnikov' and worx, rather than 40 megatonnes of 'proof' squiggles. 'you can take this to the bank.'
ed8603357dc16e3b…3de197e9…2022-10-19 18:44:32 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-06-10 asciilifeform: essentially the Big Dirty Secret re crypto is that NO ONE HAS YET proven that non-otp cryptography ~actually exists~
277a41cf11913942…b367afa7…2022-10-19 18:46:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-19 d4: asciilifeform: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=9BH0
5981674811913942…11913942…2022-10-19 18:46:40 <unpx> > -a- pending message buffer full, forcing timeout <<< This is going to be fun
805027d032e328ca…64b1e374…2022-10-19 14:37:20 signpost finds himself discussing the dichotomy of the "business of X" vs the "science of X" in just about everything these days. medicine, engineering, etc, etc.
26243d03277a41cf…7dc16e3b…2022-10-19 18:45:55 <asciilifeform> there aint even any cryptosystems, afaik, that rest on ANY kind of problem with known-hardness.
88bc923b59816748…59816748…2022-10-19 18:48:06 <unpx> My favorite test for quantum computers and consequently how I see the PQC-race
653d41f4805027d0…32e328ca…2022-10-19 14:38:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: dun fughet 'the psychopathology of x'
24d402a083a01545…ed860335…2022-10-19 18:48:04 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-09-28 asciilifeform: incidentally i just realized that von neumann had this thread. and modelled the item in shannon's terms : he asked that the ciphertext contain 0 bits of info re the plaintext. and proved that this is true if and only if you're using... otp
56ea9d6288bc923b…83a01545…2022-10-19 18:48:43 <asciilifeform> unpx: per asciilifeform's lights, 'quantum computer' is a religious/grantological artifact and of ~0 interest from practical pov
23454c3e653d41f4…805027d0…2022-10-19 14:40:15 <signpost> bit of business in that too, but yeah, also the smearing shit on walls for sake of it.
353668d7d74118d9…d74118d9…2022-10-19 19:04:01 <unpx> Right now my opinion stop at most crypto UX may be misused and become what's called a footgun, reason why 'cryptography community' and 'security community' starts saying things like ``GPG bad, GPG footgun, just don't, use Signal''
6147e97a23454c3e…653d41f4…2022-10-19 14:41:13 <asciilifeform> the 'biznis' aspect there is that 'worx and trivially understood by bright 8th grader' doesn't getcha printed, much less tenured. hence what's in a typical 'respectable paper'.
071a5980e4cd2578…24d402a0…2022-10-19 18:50:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-11 asciilifeform: not far from asciilifeform's chair there for instance is a princely bldg housing a, shit thee not, 'quantum cloud computing' 'startup', funded to 1e8+$ and peddling stock
f33ec0ee6147e97a…6147e97a…2022-10-19 14:43:38 <asciilifeform> (not to mention that our spec aint citing anyffin but 30+y.o. rfcs... 'this dun scratch anyone's back')
9752745a071a5980…071a5980…2022-10-19 18:50:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-14 asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: read, when orig. posted. has 0 to do with 'in $n cycles', but w/ shor's algo & variants. on the entirely imaginary apparatus advertised as 'quantum computer' (originally a joke paper by r.feynman, nao a multi-$1e9 reich grantsmanship game, reminiscent of 'hot fusion')
ebc9c0521eccf72a…1eccf72a…2022-10-19 19:05:11 <asciilifeform> i.e. 'don't use footgun, just put the gun straight in mouth, why suffer'
e7ec06bfecd0cf72…ebc9c052…2022-10-19 19:09:06 <asciilifeform> '90s 'crypto wars' did not end, the reich simply retooled away from pushing attempts to mandate key escrow to psyops where 'reasonable people' accept pkiism
6d2c1ff5ecd0cf72…ecd0cf72…2022-10-19 19:14:15 <unpx> Yeah, makes me think about this https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1018.pdf
699ad199f33ec0ee…f33ec0ee…2022-10-19 14:44:49 <asciilifeform> from yet other angle, a working implementation of wot is rather like 'garlic to vampire', i.e. actually vanishes the over9000 pseudo-problems which come from 'must accessible to randos'. anathema.
deb753019752745a…e4cd2578…2022-10-19 18:57:35 <asciilifeform> unpx: quantumism is part eternal grant racket perpetuum mobile, and part reich FUD gambit to move gullible folx off rsa.
13ffb4d4e7ec06bf…a34eec61…2022-10-19 19:09:06 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-07-19 asciilifeform: ( summary : ustards are fixated on 'escrowable' ciphers, as they were called in 1990s, but today they do not use the word . i.e. schemes for getting your privkey to be something THEY can access on a whim )
23f658b16d2c1ff5…b5b47cf5…2022-10-19 19:14:21 <asciilifeform> i.e. the 'don't make own crypto'(tm)(r) dictum printed in just about erry piece of Official maculature on the subj. 'don't make own, use our boobytrapped lib like proper patriot.'
fb5eb1566d2c1ff5…6d2c1ff5…2022-10-19 21:22:26 <unpx> Yeah, if everything is behind that wall it's okay
a34eec61deb75301…9752745a…2022-10-19 18:57:36 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-29 asciilifeform: ( not even to mention the obscene complexity of implementation of eccism, making a meaningful audit of given proggy just about impossible )
eb3409a913ffb4d4…e7ec06bf…2022-10-19 19:10:26 <asciilifeform> sometimes, the mask slips (afaik linked item ~not~ an apr.1 joak!)
fa7c45af23f658b1…23f658b1…2022-10-19 19:15:15 <asciilifeform> unpx: they openly backpedalled on 'move all usg ministries to ecc'
7bc1f7eafb5eb156…d987d1cc…2022-10-19 21:23:09 <asciilifeform> unpx: misbehaviour 'inside wall' is dealt with by unpeering.
3de197e990d70f7c…49309aa8…2022-10-19 15:52:34 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-30 22:35:31 asciilifeform: saw similar pieces re ye olde irc and its forced spanning tree, and inescapably they end with 'and so we need this 100kloc of gnarly auto-consensus coad , let's learn from shitcoins' etc
0dd05c23a34eec61…deb75301…2022-10-19 18:59:24 <asciilifeform> in 'cryptology kommunity' it has justabout reached the status of 'climate consensus'(tm)(r) -- point out the above, get shown the door in <1sec
15b73f02eb3409a9…13ffb4d4…2022-10-19 19:10:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-05-31 asciilifeform: in recent sads, 'Our batch prime-generation algorithm suggests that, to help reduce energy consumption and protect the environment, all users of RSA—including users of traditional pre-quantum RSA—should delegate their key-generation computa- tions to NIST or another trusted third par
6e56cc62fa7c45af…fa7c45af…2022-10-19 19:43:08 <asciilifeform> upnp: re: 'security assumptions of pest' -- this summarizes moar or less whole thing.
121496737bc1f7ea…7bc1f7ea…2022-10-19 21:23:23 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. a peer can spam without restriction )
198c9db0f536f432…52ffe7b5…2022-10-25 13:38:51 <deedbot> C9293B16A16041E0D67790A7D5C56A34D8FB728A registered as unpx[jonsykkel|awt].
aa339480f536f432…f536f432…2022-10-26 16:09:46 <unpx> Yesterday's lecture was like "yeah we know there exists a bent function for n = 6 because NSA cared to give us one"
7acecba93de197e9…90d70f7c…2022-10-19 17:54:48 asciilifeform thinks it could be interesting to leave some hardbound deadtrees of new spec where certain folx might read it, but hasn't any realistic expectations of seeing'em on net
b5b47cf515b73f02…eb3409a9…2022-10-19 19:12:18 <asciilifeform> the pushing of 'modern' (in 100% of cases, gratuitously complex) algos -- yet another form of escrow 'via other end of digestive tract'.
e131b2006e56cc62…6e56cc62…2022-10-19 19:44:31 <asciilifeform> if the 2 given symmetric algos hold -- airtight. otherwise -- 0 security. there aint much to 'proof'.
3191cd2d12149673…12149673…2022-10-20 14:18:58 <asciilifeform> billymg: loox like yer bot awol from #a ?
54169b69aa339480…4d3696d9…2022-10-26 16:17:40 <shinohai> unpx: Iffn' ya want to peer here is key info http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=F1WV
f9bbbf807acecba9…7acecba9…2022-10-19 17:56:20 <asciilifeform> prolly oughta wait until spec is bugfree per current reader's lights; and prolly also until we've the luby algo
d987d1cce131b200…e131b200…2022-10-19 19:45:36 <asciilifeform> ... the prototypes, however -- another matter, lol.
3e84759a3191cd2d…15b73f02…2022-10-20 14:18:58 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-20 d4: Oh, it's bitdash
f613266554169b69…4317b4f6…2022-10-26 17:01:38 <asciilifeform> unpx: apropos, see also possib. useful 31337w4r3z.
dafa0a8eb5dc66e0…b5dc66e0…2022-10-30 18:05:34 <unpx> Just in case someone was interested, I just recalled nsucrypto exists and that there are some people trying to figure out the solution of this unsolved puzzle: https://nsucrypto.nsu.ru/archive/2022/round/2/task/7/#data
39d343aaf9bbbf80…f9bbbf80…2022-10-19 17:57:29 asciilifeform slowly rewriting, and not only for prettyprint, but to actually nail down the chain mechanics and remove various underspecified (and in places, contradictory) ughs
63153d74d987d1cc…277a41cf…2022-10-19 19:46:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 16:17:44 asciilifeform[6]: in otherlulz, lulzy sideffects of yest.'s blatta bugola.
8f873fda2703dd40…ca9136ab…2022-10-25 16:05:57 <asciilifeform> seems to vary approx as much in recent times as the temperature in a root cellar, lol
0d56b4dff6132665…f6132665…2022-10-26 17:04:19 asciilifeform dug into subj for a while, some yrs ago, in the end to 0 useful result
aa4ba903dafa0a8e…dafa0a8e…2022-10-30 18:07:05 <unpx> Ah. Silly. Here's the complete task list https://nsucrypto.nsu.ru/media/Olympiads/2022/Round_2/Tasks/22_second_round-kdjcf.pdf
0b0262b98f873fda…506dddca…2022-10-25 16:23:54 <awt> Indeed. This move today feels like 5k up or down used to feel.
7c4d92cfaa4ba903…07d9cb55…2022-10-30 18:07:32 asciilifeform had an ancient orcish b00k as a kid, w/ puzzlers quite like this
cbb6a109aa4ba903…aa4ba903…2022-10-31 10:11:03 <unpx> For what I've seen it implies the existance of a group like structure on which is hard to compute discrete log... so it comes to mind either bignums diffie hellman like or elliptic curves...
25f9b1b67c4d92cf…7c4d92cf…2022-10-31 00:16:57 <asciilifeform> unpx: problem 9 (where asked to find a symmetric cipher that is commutative and can be used in shamir's 3pass algo) iirc provably has no solution (or at any rate not such that anyone would want)
1c8e5413cbb6a109…cbb6a109…2022-10-31 10:12:28 <unpx> Massey–Omura Cryptosystem it was, but require bignums
10e22a5a0c5fe284…2703dd40…2022-10-25 16:26:49 <busybot> Error! Requires 2 parameters - Please see `man ticker` for usage
4a7c8166bd47d264…2335e042…2022-10-28 15:14:14 <signpost> heh, "is the empire dead yet?" (checks btc price)
e2a60d471c8e5413…1c8e5413…2022-10-31 11:08:10 <unpx> Back on problem 7 the only hint is here https://vk.com/crypto_nsu?w=wall-182952467_274
250923f40d977ff6…63153d74…2022-10-20 15:11:28 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 98d 20h 34m
5d0c5cf610e22a5a…0c5fe284…2022-10-25 16:37:23 <billymg> chart looks great, where can i invest in dollar coin? what is supply cap? who are dev?
7acfdde1e8dd3a06…e8dd3a06…2022-10-31 00:18:03 asciilifeform wouldn't mind having one for pest rekey but afaik aint no such thing w/out bignumism
c9d378f3e2a60d47…a95a4e49…2022-10-31 13:16:53 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2018-08-23#1844012 << >> https://archive.is/ELd11
5fc332f8e2a60d47…e2a60d47…2022-11-02 16:56:19 unpx is questioning F2[x]/(x^8 + x^4 + x^3 + x + 1) imprimitivity in AES
65658fbc250923f4…0d977ff6…2022-10-20 20:30:52 <billymg> signpost: i'll be in your neck of the woods in the next few months, let me know if you'll be around: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=lXp5
506a5d8b5f92103a…5d0c5cf6…2022-10-28 15:25:32 <billymg> another good one: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69695
820158bcc9d378f3…d3d0b443…2022-10-31 13:12:52 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-08-23 asciilifeform: if history's any guide, they're still in the 'first we'll try and starve the judenschwein, make'em unemployable, then they'll sell their gold to good aryans on their own power' stage of the algo
468136e75fc332f8…5fc332f8…2022-11-02 17:01:19 <unpx> It scratches my head just like non-unit elements of a ring are not able to generate a cyclic multiplicative group
58e82bc865658fbc…23454c3e…2022-10-21 05:26:53 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-20#1014371 << [yeah man, happy to meet up.][http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=tB4o]
45e29589e0670b63…8f873fda…2022-10-25 17:02:09 asciilifeform unrelatedly, simplified pest spec , aboloshing the multiple buffers and most of the gnarly interning mechanics.
1c4f6789506a5d8b…c6e52462…2022-10-28 15:21:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-07 14:22:28 signpost: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69465 << pretty good speech.
705a4faf468136e7…315a12aa…2022-11-02 17:11:38 <billymg> phf: i fired that one up since i remembered enjoying Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin as a kid but never played SotN, was not in a Castlevania mood in that moment so set it aside for later
0065f3ee468136e7…468136e7…2022-11-02 18:28:47 <unpx> asciilifeform[crtdaydreams]: just trying to see if GF(2^8) does something strange with that polynomial compared to a promitive polynomial on the multiplicative side of things...
ce0289be58e82bc8…250923f4…2022-10-21 05:27:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-20 16:26:59 billymg: signpost: i'll be in your neck of the woods in the next few months, let me know if you'll be around: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=lXp5
8933b65493a3b66c…fe120bdd…2022-10-31 14:06:01 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-15 asciilifeform: ... from reich pov, plebes having savings is a bug, similarly to resistive losses in electric cable. 'pieces of yacht that got diverted'
fd2d39cb705a4faf…440b6793…2022-11-02 17:22:41 <asciilifeform> phf: near as asciilifeform was able to tell from reading the macivory 'lifesupport' srcs, the card shits directly to video ram. theoretically could emulate this (if wanted emulator w/out xorg)
8d4251220065f3ee…0065f3ee…2022-11-02 18:29:36 <unpx> Someone pointed to me the part where they claim they just took the first they saw https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/projects/cryptographic-standards-and-guidelines/documents/aes-development/rijndael-ammended.pdf
bda185ac05cffc57…45e29589…2022-10-25 17:04:07 <asciilifeform> nao, msg only held up if a) a chain precedent missing, and we getdata'd for it, ~1s b) hearsay arrives with bounce > alltime_minimum(speaker) -- give time for immed/lower-bounce to arrive
fa04a1bf58cc1535…54169b69…2022-10-28 15:23:57 <shinohai> So far I have misgendered 250+ troons and am not banned yet.
53e1da4d8933b654…93a3b66c…2022-10-31 14:08:40 <asciilifeform> billymg: there's a scene in 1 of v. shalamov's 'kolyma stories' where a guard storms into the barrack in the evening and smashes the old tin cans the inmates have been using as little kettles to warm up bits of food
8c099080fd2d39cb…fd2d39cb…2022-11-02 17:23:13 <asciilifeform> would prolly need to emulate aspects of 'ivory' that aint in the vlm & descendent items tho
3f5336548d425122…8d425122…2022-11-02 18:30:14 <unpx> An looking at that same exact table I cannot unsee the order of that polynomial being 52
4b1032f653e1da4d…53e1da4d…2022-10-31 14:09:06 <asciilifeform> 'worthless pieces of shit, clearly you are fed too much and work too little, if you have what to warm up in these'
26c886358c099080…dea6c792…2023-02-18 03:41:40 <crtdaydreams> ascii ye, but I thought I had fwded successfully?
460edee93f533654…67acff09…2022-11-02 18:58:34 <phf> (DEFWIREDVAR *MORE-SPECIAL* NIL) ;must always be T! set to nil at own risk 89-01-03 reti, don't switch it back, further discussion IGUANA:>reti>zora-unmodified-prom-exp.text
f5d46bb53f533654…3f533654…2022-11-02 23:04:41 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-11-02#1015323 <<< 51
b02d7a011473e96c…1473e96c…2022-10-25 17:07:21 <asciilifeform> oughta make for 'over9000x' faster propagation of broadcasts, vs. the earlier practice of sitting on erry hearsay
a35094ceb937017f…b937017f…2022-10-28 15:30:42 billymg waiting for the initial high to wear off to see if the changes actually lead to more productive/honest discussion
6a80bed94b1032f6…4b1032f6…2022-10-31 14:11:31 <asciilifeform> 'For now, the consumer is too strong for comfort. ... The household savings buffer “suggests to me we may have to keep at this for a while,” said Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City President Esther George in a webinar earlier this month' etc
6cf77eec56a9eb86…56a9eb86…2022-11-02 17:36:05 <asciilifeform> phf: re microcode btw: there's a 'si:read-rom-word' in genera/distribution/sys/sys/wired.lisp . seems to eat argument n and walk out nth word of the rom. ( not tried it on mine yet )
23300e1c460edee9…460edee9…2022-11-02 19:06:35 <phf> i was so proud of this lisp machine joke that i also sent it to all 5 people who would get it
f84de706f5d46bb5…58df89f4…2022-11-02 23:04:46 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 14:30:19 unpx[asciilifeform|busybot]: An looking at that same exact table I cannot unsee the order of that polynomial being 52
13d698c9f5d46bb5…f5d46bb5…2022-11-07 12:49:49 <unpx> https://www.moserware.com/2009/09/stick-figure-guide-to-advanced.html
0384cc25b02d7a01…b02d7a01…2022-10-25 17:08:43 <asciilifeform> ( if bounce <= alltime_min(speaker), add its hash to the in-mem dedupe cache, any further dupe of it is insta-dropped, and send it on its way )
1ab6e51ba35094ce…5f92103a…2022-10-28 15:26:11 <signpost> the format itself is prohibitive but the elon riot has been entertaining.
f21e08706a80bed9…6a80bed9…2022-10-31 16:19:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014651 << i.e. number-theoretic constructs. which all req bignums, as said earlier.
0a10b0c26cf77eec…6cf77eec…2022-11-02 17:38:09 <asciilifeform> whole thing fwiw. 'COMPUTE-IVORY-REVISION' is sumwhat interesting, seems to imply that there was a ~4th~ rev. (previously only knew of 3 editions)
e6eef2cf23300e1c…5529fb72…2022-11-02 19:10:46 <asciilifeform> phf: thing is fulla lulz like that. ( and asciilifeform either not dug enuff, or hasn't the right leaked tapes, to properly get most of'em )
fe739870f84de706…5e50b214…2022-11-02 23:11:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015347 << lol!
5d388d8013d698c9…13d698c9…2022-11-07 12:55:31 <unpx> Is this a lie? https://www.moserware.com/assets/stick-figure-guide-to-advanced/aes_act_1_scene_16_won_1100.png
6b82a8c41ab6e51b…c2ba0dd3…2022-10-28 15:29:35 <asciilifeform> what was this ? ( asciilifeform not followed subj in realtime )
97e11fdcf21e0870…820158bc…2022-10-31 16:20:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 06:13:14 unpx[shinohai]: For what I've seen it implies the existance of a group like structure on which is hard to compute discrete log... so it comes to mind either bignums diffie hellman like or elliptic curves...
5529fb720a10b0c2…0a10b0c2…2022-11-02 17:44:37 asciilifeform erry time loox at bolix srcs, is almost cured of the notion of doing anyffin w/ subj -- thing is of screamingly 'indian' flavour, over9000 mysterious hacks layered 1 on top of other
14e6551ae6eef2cf…e6eef2cf…2022-11-02 19:11:52 <asciilifeform> seems as if authors were quite certain that not only no 'heathen' would ever lay eyes on the sores, but not even to have to explain it to one at any point
b32ac029fe739870…83aa9216…2022-11-02 23:12:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:34:06 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: yeha doods webshit defo hacked and shilling btc casino
90bcde3b5d388d80…c8adfafe…2022-11-07 14:37:06 <asciilifeform> unpx: rjindael was crowned 'aes' in a rather questionable proceeding, where bullshit excuse 'ohnoez serpent slow'.
d8f37a3f5d388d80…5d388d80…2022-11-07 23:01:40 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-11-07#1015743 <<< Interesting, I can't find a copy of that paper
e5d9d77c6b82a8c4…1ab6e51b…2022-10-28 15:29:54 <signpost> asciilifeform: musk bought twatter to (purportely) purge the censors
38f8237297e11fdc…f21e0870…2022-10-31 16:21:09 <asciilifeform> there aint a block cipher where can e.g. decrypt(key1, encrypt(key2, encrypt(key1, payload))).
898ff2f714e6551a…14e6551a…2022-11-02 19:12:08 <asciilifeform> fwiw e.g. microshit's src dun look like this. (nor any other commercial sores asciilifeform ever glimpsed)
72326feab32ac029…fe739870…2022-11-02 23:13:27 <asciilifeform> shithub has the sores ( which was always a gigantic ball of py3 btw, and if anyone wants old vers plox to say )
b4776c3590bcde3b…90bcde3b…2022-11-07 14:38:08 <asciilifeform> unpx: thing has all kinds of 'interesting' characteristics (not even to mention the -- known to just about erryone naodays -- sidechannel leakages)
d8c2e6ced8f37a3f…1c7ca97c…2022-11-07 23:14:53 <asciilifeform> unpx: 1st time you see 1 of these censored ?
8a90195de5d9d77c…6b82a8c4…2022-10-28 15:30:19 <asciilifeform> aa. thought he spat it back out tho when discovered most of the users to be bots iirc ?
c022b41838f82372…38f82372…2022-10-31 16:23:22 <asciilifeform> ( ... and get == to encrypt(key2, payload) )
5ab5c86e898ff2f7…898ff2f7…2022-11-02 19:12:45 <asciilifeform> at the same time, it -- evidently -- worked.
782cdc1b72326fea…72326fea…2022-11-02 23:15:32 <asciilifeform> the alternative is fwiw the vendor's closed turd (in which case no reason not to use xilinx's, they sell 20x larger chips); or 'write own'
81c1f15ef3c457aa…0bd8b1ae…2022-11-07 23:27:34 <asciilifeform> unpx: prolly the auto-archiver bot we had in #t marked it
33e18e5a8a90195d…e5d9d77c…2022-10-28 15:31:31 <signpost> he did try to reduce the price with that, but didn't work out for him.
bb28ba38c022b418…40000999…2022-10-31 16:29:31 <signpost> leaving aside the baggage of tor, would such a thing be useful for "onion" messages, say in the case where I lose contact with asciilifeform but hope that by peer propagation I can get a message to him? seems like if a hypothetical cipher like that could be had, the message could be unwrapped in more than one order.
45e4c1f25ab5c86e…5ab5c86e…2022-11-02 19:14:33 <asciilifeform> ( it is at this pt that, if we were in a heathenpit, e.g. HN, ~somebody~ would be guaranteed to chime in with a 'lisp makes life too easy, encourages these iguanas...' etc )
d4d40dae782cdc1b…782cdc1b…2022-11-02 23:16:18 <asciilifeform> if go with choice 2 or 3, also includes 'write own sdram and ethernet' etc
34b235b645c4f7ef…45c4f7ef…2022-11-09 15:03:33 <unpx> Construction of a backdoored AES-like Block Cipher and how to break it cites Paterson's work (1999) which was there before AES was chosen.
6f2c9659bb28ba38…bb28ba38…2022-10-31 16:29:48 <signpost> question from my own ignorance of subj, of course.
3f381cfdd4d40dae…d4d40dae…2022-11-02 23:16:59 asciilifeform at one time tried to write sdram controller, from waveforms pictured in the datashits. not got far, didn't have the uninterrupted 3+yrs this job needed
189750f134b235b6…709d30b7…2022-11-09 15:10:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-09#1015805 << see also.
1da0c7fe34b235b6…34b235b6…2022-11-09 15:54:44 unpx wonders if there will ever be a cryptographer's logo just like there is the hacker's glider
2333c4c59cb7f80c…9cb7f80c…2022-10-25 17:43:37 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-24#1014393 << https://archive.ph/DUuPO
96c209c06f6c70e2…33e18e5a…2022-10-28 15:32:26 <signpost> "He who sows the wind will reap the whirlwind" << love this saying, haven't heard it before.
873fb81a6f2c9659…c022b418…2022-10-31 16:30:27 <asciilifeform> signpost: in fact we already have an onionesque 'addrcast' thing
c1aea73e92f3f50b…23300e1c…2022-11-02 19:18:41 <phf> i think the cause and effect is confused. lower in the system you go, the more likely it is that the code predates vairous accepted and established programming paradigms
39e2714e3f381cfd…3f381cfd…2022-11-02 23:19:45 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: not necessarily hacked, btw -- domain expir'd
f5341a50d93a5433…9f6ede03…2022-11-07 21:19:20 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-06#1015670 << yeah was just gonna say he should use trinque's pentacle because it is far easier to get gnat that way.
7e74d8e25154d58e…9e099480…2022-11-08 14:50:26 <billymg> seems that another gox might be collapsing now
f98f8547189750f1…d18bef30…2022-11-09 15:11:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-09 01:32:34 jonsykkel: but those also dont have the same hype waves or watever that can at least in theory explain some of btc style crashes (if exch rate is mostly artificialy inflated, is it really a crash)
a269ecb21da0c7fe…189750f1…2022-11-09 17:53:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-09#1015807 << fwiw the 'killed' is a pretense (e.g. ru 13337w4r3z torrents goin' strong as ever). what 'they killed' was 0-effort findability for anglo lusers via google etc. rather than warez per se.
3c605bc81da0c7fe…1da0c7fe…2022-11-20 11:47:19 <unpx> Currently thinking if I should publish my code that implements some number theoretic algorithms, this is my current progress: https://unpx.net/d4/articles/2022-11-alchemy.xhtml
c6e524622333c4c5…7768e32e…2022-10-25 17:44:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-24 13:08:32 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-28#1011760 << still ready
def0c7db96c209c0…96c209c0…2022-10-28 15:32:48 <signpost> brings to mind an old mp discussion about the russian notion of "order" which mp said didn't carry over in common english.
e2e2b3aa873fb81a…6f2c9659…2022-10-31 16:30:28 <signpost> I guess the object proposed isn't strictly an onion; it's a weird onion that can be unwrapped in any ordering of layers
ea118e87c1aea73e…c1aea73e…2022-11-02 19:21:12 <phf> and the actual lisp machine people were both inventing those paradigms or else integrating them from elsewhere
888109d539e2714e…97da065e…2022-11-02 23:20:20 <signpost> she has a new domain; old one is deadnaming!!1!11
96d920aff5341a50…f5341a50…2022-11-07 21:20:03 shinohai briefly took down www because too much bot traffic, none of 'em bothered to donate coin to server ....
ebfb3a71f5341a50…1a63a16a…2022-11-07 21:20:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 23:08:35 asciilifeform[4]: looks for shinohai's gnat recipe, but his www apparently kaput?
0a1a46eaf98f8547…f98f8547…2022-11-09 15:11:50 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-07 asciilifeform: thestringpuller: imho the current exch rate consists largely of air, and is in fact part of the current lizard ploy to 'drop btc from a plane without a parachute' by pumping and periodically dumping
28d81432a269ecb2…7d8eed1c…2022-11-09 17:54:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-09 01:57:45 jonsykkel: legit(tm) place to spend somwat similar how they kiled p2p file sharing
1f7009f93c605bc8…3c605bc8…2022-12-02 19:55:34 <unpx> https://static.livecodingbook.toplap.org/books/livecoding.pdf
3f4efa38c6e52462…2333c4c5…2022-10-25 17:44:07 <signpost> ah damn, they have the paywall for archivers now
abbb6c88def0c7db…6f6c70e2…2022-10-28 15:32:52 asciilifeform recalls the fishwraps hype re subj, but not grasps what is the point of buying twatter -- if bought & converted to 8chan, a new one will be set up, resembling the old, and ~that~ one made Official, neh
777dedcee2e2b3aa…873fb81a…2022-10-31 16:31:19 <asciilifeform> signpost: problem is that it's ruinously expensive in re bw -- yer talking to 1, but copies go to whole net. so is meant to be used sparingly (hence 'send or attempt to decode addrcasts only if >=1 cold peer in wot')
a76737aaea118e87…ea118e87…2022-11-02 19:25:09 <phf> so like while everyone™ writes assembler, cadr's SYSTEM is written in the 1968 dijkstra pascal style: a file defines its state varibles at the top (kind of like pascal's declaration block), and then you have a bunch of structure programming style defuns operating on that state. but then alan kay invents object orientatio
7d8eed1c0a1a46ea…0a1a46ea…2022-11-09 15:11:50 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-15 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-14#1072938 << imho the enemy's strategy is presently to 'raise it to stratosphere then drop outta plane' periodically.
1f14f32e28d81432…8faff183…2022-11-09 18:06:34 <signpost> rutorrents sitting right there in the open, yup
9bd4ed38abbb6c88…def0c7db…2022-10-28 15:33:54 <signpost> maybe globohomo has served its purpose and the reich's ready to embrace/extend 4chan mercantilism
2073505a777dedce…e2e2b3aa…2022-10-31 16:31:31 <signpost> yep, and who knows when you're fully unwrapped
e4659c27a76737aa…a76737aa…2022-11-02 19:25:09 <phf> n, so they bolt flavors on top, and now you have a combination of styles, because legacy code, etc.
2629f4b8030e2475…030e2475…2022-11-02 23:20:58 asciilifeform has nfi if even same meatsack, not as if previous version had pgp sigs
88c181195c443d5c…5e2367a5…2022-11-08 15:00:39 <billymg> saw some of their bots online saying "if you want to get your money out try using these other tokens, they are less congested than btc"
b68454599bd4ed38…abbb6c88…2022-10-28 15:34:40 <asciilifeform> afaik 4chanism can only exist in counterpoint to 'homo' tho -- rather like 'dissidents' evaporated away with sovok
359d62e12073505a…777dedce…2022-10-31 16:31:44 <asciilifeform> right, hence why addrcast has only 1 'wrap'
773ac252e4659c27…e4659c27…2022-11-02 19:27:09 <phf> by the time you get to '98 genera, you have a dozen of paradigms, ranging from late 60s all mixed in a single system. and it's a sensible thing to write to whatever style you're working with in the particular part of code, unless you're prepared to do a full re-architecture/re-write
41f535042629f4b8…2629f4b8…2022-11-02 23:21:24 <asciilifeform> 'today you play jazz, tomorrow you sell the motherland'(tm)(r)(sovoklul)
51aa8300af9cfb5b…af9cfb5b…2022-11-09 18:09:40 <signpost> anyway what's getting killed is the western slave's will to live.
05bbc029359d62e1…359d62e1…2022-10-31 16:31:57 <asciilifeform> (is keyed to 1 peer, who yer unable to directly reach at given time)
3bc0fa92773ac252…773ac252…2022-11-02 19:28:03 <phf> so if you read document explorer, there's tons of places where "the correct architecture is now X, and we've migrated foo, bar and qux to it, but there's still buz and frob written in the old style"
c7c40c2841f53504…41f53504…2022-11-02 23:22:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015363 << outcome of swallowing could easily end up 'trans-islam' (kosher per shia!) neh
e6d748a6c3e3ec6a…88c18119…2022-11-08 15:02:06 <billymg> damn network congestion, always causing problems. big blockers were right!
fa5e694c2bd07785…2bd07785…2022-12-08 16:47:09 <unpx> Yes, I published that to force myself on working on it in well defined chunks instead of trying to put something by time to time without a goal. The posts will be more about how I rewrote something and why, rather than here is how to do X, because the latter can already be found in books like the ones I mention or looking
77916f20f554b182…f554b182…2022-10-25 17:45:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: new spec oughta make for faster and substantially less headachy read than prev
15969b2e0cdf6f83…9bd4ed38…2022-10-28 15:37:07 <signpost> I don't disagree but they might need to modify the globohomo end; even the gays are starting to reject the trans religion.
a21e30dd05bbc029…05bbc029…2022-10-31 16:33:08 <asciilifeform> even supposing you wanted >1 layer, aint much you can stuff in unfragged udp.
14720bbb3bc0fa92…3bc0fa92…2022-11-02 19:33:53 <phf> where's by the time they start writing windows you can find books on object oriented programming in c++ at barnes and noble. they use hungarian notation ffs is how spoiled they are :)
cca9c170c7c40c28…b32ac029…2022-11-02 23:24:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:59:23 signpost: at this point yurp falling to islam would be a vast improvement.
dbcd003fe6d748a6…81c1f15e…2022-11-08 15:04:41 <asciilifeform> lol 'exchrate heating up, let's pop anuther gox' eh
1766bf9377916f20…77916f20…2022-10-25 17:45:22 <asciilifeform> ( thing actually organized in logical order nao, lol, vs. prev soup )
a4a0606e15969b2e…15969b2e…2022-10-28 15:39:18 <signpost> the first batch of kids they maimed is old enough to wonder what the hell happened to them by now.
9941ca14a21e30dd…8933b654…2022-10-31 16:33:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-22 asciilifeform: 'Every internet destination must be able to receive a datagram of 576 octets either in one piece or in fragments to be reassembled.
5823c75114720bbb…14720bbb…2022-11-02 19:36:19 <phf> and the whole "biplar lisp programmer" has nothing to do with lisp machine world, and more to do with the fact that by the time that meme appears most people who still write code are insane (or at least most vocal ones, the xah lees and the naggums)
889f17d9cca9c170…888109d5…2022-11-02 23:23:42 <signpost> sure, standard admonitions against sticking your dick in crazy apply.
579706efdbcd003f…96d920af…2022-11-08 15:09:15 <shinohai> lol @ ftx "Bitcoin has no future as a payments network!" Guess that's why they hafta halt withdraws today.
721ac3e6fd04c723…e5ba2ab2…2022-12-08 16:47:59 <asciilifeform> unpx: added yer at entry from pgpgram earlier; use the key asciilifeform sent you, oughta work
cf70c73dfd04c723…c6dfa132…2022-12-08 16:49:45 <signpost> phf: speaking of peerings, dunno if this was lost in the pest noise but http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017580
692ea75b1766bf93…21445f5d…2022-10-25 17:45:41 <signpost> previous soup was mighty delicious already, but awesome
82fdd9c1a4a0606e…a35094ce…2022-10-28 15:47:02 <billymg> yeah, they pushed it so far that "trad" is now counterculture. zoomer girls on tiktok openly promoting becoming a mother/housewife, young men eating right and exercising, etc.
3a17c1599941ca14…a21e30dd…2022-10-31 16:33:49 <asciilifeform> addrcast, luckily, only needs to fit 6byte ipv4+port.
a1e51b7e889f17d9…889f17d9…2022-11-02 23:25:23 signpost meanwhile over here working sbcl's lockless atomic ops into oc encoder
d3afa59bcf70c73d…76db938d…2022-12-08 16:50:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 14:07:03 signpost: phf: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=RUKq
15a5f4aea16e5c5c…f9250f9d…2022-12-08 16:58:40 <signpost> unpx, I'll bake you a peering key too if you like.
8666b7da692ea75b…692ea75b…2022-10-25 17:45:53 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=myNw << zh leaks
5fcc1a3c82fdd9c1…82fdd9c1…2022-10-28 15:48:07 <billymg> it's no longer cool to be a globohomo faggot
8a939dc03a17c159…2073505a…2022-10-31 16:34:11 <signpost> yep, tight space. is it information-theoretically unavoidable that layered encryption increase size?
faf8e22bcdd22d55…cdd22d55…2022-11-08 15:19:42 <billymg> asciilifeform: yup, again and again, until they finally realize
24e1e9410e8177d8…7918ec21…2022-11-09 18:10:41 <signpost> huh, is there an xau shitcoin or something?
5e11de3d08c9a1a8…ff82755e…2022-12-08 16:38:25 <asciilifeform> unpx: i do see your msgs (and not only in log.)
fe6706ced3afa59b…cf70c73d…2022-12-08 16:49:54 <signpost> hilariously just as I do this, I get another mystery replay
f92db207d3afa59b…721ac3e6…2022-12-08 16:49:59 <asciilifeform> lobbes: observe that you can operate normally while the thing getdata's
fff325a3398e445a…398e445a…2022-12-08 17:01:40 <unpx> I tried, but looks like deedbot didn't add it, signpost
eaae05818666b7da…8666b7da…2022-10-25 17:46:05 <signpost> (who are mostly themselves banker-fuck leaks, lol)
c80019478a939dc0…8a939dc0…2022-10-31 16:34:24 <signpost> I suppose somewhere in there, there's new information about a new key?
4efbf1a2612bbd58…d3fd3b0e…2022-11-02 19:51:17 <phf> lisp machine code and lisp in general is the way it is, because bunch of grownups were inventing the future as they went along, and by the time their knowledge was delivered to the people, prometheus style, certain conclusions were already made, and then essentially crystalized from then on. windows circa '95 (i've not had
014f18f455ed0ee3…a1e51b7e…2022-11-02 23:25:42 <signpost> I'm going to need to find a prng that is cheap to re-seed, because that's the bottleneck in both py and lisp
9e8e71d7faf8e22b…ebfb3a71…2022-11-08 15:15:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-16 15:08:34 asciilifeform: 'gave keys' == 'sold'
6cc0516f24e1e941…24e1e941…2022-11-09 18:11:00 <signpost> https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/xaucoin/ << bahahaha
735f34305e11de3d…5e11de3d…2022-12-08 16:38:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017778 << neato.
c62f5f365886b2bb…5886b2bb…2022-12-08 17:01:13 <signpost> unpx: did you ever have a key registered with deedbot?
d42d94fefff325a3…3f1812ae…2022-12-08 17:02:21 <signpost> yeah, thing needs an out-of-band registration hole since we don't have n00b lobbies for pest yet
58283d49fff325a3…fff325a3…2022-12-08 17:03:22 <unpx> signpost, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-10-25#1014460
37928b36eaae0581…099d6535…2022-10-25 17:48:04 asciilifeform not tuned into the subj well enuff to comment pithily
f099885424e61744…0cdf6f83…2022-10-28 15:43:50 <asciilifeform> billymg: there's a thermodynamic ratchet tho -- move from 'trad' to '9000 kilometres of cock', 'costs 1$', but reverse -- '100'
bca98f1b4efbf1a2…4efbf1a2…2022-11-02 19:51:17 <phf> seen 3.11 source) is basically genera circa '85 with all the legacy craft removed.
75a102d54efbf1a2…612bbd58…2022-11-02 19:51:21 <asciilifeform> the 1 detail could add , possibly -- the atrocious quality of period irons ( 3600 era, where 3 tonnes of wire-wrap ) , made for the 'magick-toggle-no-9001-please-dont-change' style
81784a099e8e71d7…0ae2c536…2022-11-08 16:00:45 <asciilifeform> complete w/ 'assets are fine'(tm)(r) lol
13eeb4fb6cc0516f…e82bd2de…2022-11-09 19:03:09 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-09#1015825 << DOOM
8867f3cf735f3430…ffcefd1e…2022-12-08 16:39:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 10:01:35 unpx[4]: Currently thinking if I should publish my code that implements some number theoretic algorithms, this is my current progress: https://unpx.net/d4/articles/2022-11-alchemy.xhtml
1972fc95f9250f9d…f92db207…2022-12-08 16:52:49 <asciilifeform> unpx: re: algebratrons, of possible interest re state of art ('80s! and afaik still unsurpassed)
3f1812aec62f5f36…c62f5f36…2022-12-08 17:01:29 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-10-21#1114152 << looks like possibly not
eb45a52558283d49…e45ece92…2022-12-08 17:03:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-25 09:38:51 unpx[busybot]: !!register https://unpx.net/d4/gpg.txt
85ff824af0998854…f0998854…2022-10-28 15:45:14 <asciilifeform> is simply 1 example. or take the 'trans' -- the mutilation aint reversible, the victims are perma-stuck justifying it to self & others
b793d67dbca98f1b…256a4a59…2022-11-02 19:56:33 asciilifeform erry time thinks to gripe re 'fpga too small' -- recalls above photo
465302a575a102d5…bca98f1b…2022-11-02 19:53:52 <phf> ^ https://images.computerhistory.org/chess/greenblatt-richard-knight.1978.l02645385.mit.jpg
72b5624913eeb4fb…28d81432…2022-11-09 18:59:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-09 13:10:47 busybot[jonsykkel]: Current BTC price in USD: $16870.58
4ba7bb438867f3cf…735f3430…2022-12-08 16:39:27 asciilifeform sadly not has the cycles atm to properly read. but seems intended as ffa-style 'from 1st principles' Right Thing
e45ece921972fc95…e02e8aab…2022-12-08 16:52:49 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-02-04 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/stoutemyer/index.html << for the l0gz, and for all 'derive' aficionados.
ef57fe4f3f1812ae…d3afa59b…2022-12-08 17:02:35 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-10-21 unpx: I should somehow connect to deedbot to register the GPG public key
131a70075a740be2…5a740be2…2022-12-08 17:02:42 <signpost> actually, you should be able to register here
ca9250e9e1456943…3e84759a…2022-10-25 17:48:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-07 asciilifeform: oblig. su joak: 'father: vodka's gone up, son. son: father, does that mean you will drink less now? father: no, son, it means that now you will eat less!'
cb0ef0be85ff824a…24e61744…2022-10-28 15:51:02 billymg could see some of the victims becoming "born again" activists of sorts, "it happened to me, don't let it happen to you"
855666afa07a13e0…a07a13e0…2022-10-31 16:37:22 <asciilifeform> at the very least, each 'unpacker' has to have some notion that he successfully unpacked. i.e. some plaintext he can expect on correct decipher, to know whether he did
86f1248db793d67d…b793d67d…2022-11-02 20:00:26 <asciilifeform> the amazingly frustrating thing re modern era is that over9000 interesting things nao over9000x easier to do than in that '78; but the intersection b/w sets of folx with the time and those who giveashit is nullset
564653f7465302a5…75a102d5…2022-11-02 19:54:39 <asciilifeform> warehouse fulla 74xxx not shown. but yea
d14b867d4ba7bb43…08c9a1a8…2022-12-08 16:40:20 <signpost> lobbes: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_G-o << peering info
5ccc217f131a7007…131a7007…2022-12-08 17:02:48 <signpost> or at least if it breaks I'll fix the attempt
90c7e7f8ca9250e9…eaae0581…2022-10-25 17:50:16 signpost no expert, but doesn't expect anything good from hyperinflation on one end, and sovereign debt crisis on the other
df9be9b7cb0ef0be…cb0ef0be…2022-10-28 15:51:56 <billymg> some will react with suicide, for others it will flip some switch that causes them to dedicate their life to preventing it for others
53eff3b1855666af…855666af…2022-10-31 16:38:55 <asciilifeform> is rather expensive process, even leaving aside the 'meaningful to 1 , but goes to all' aspect. and largely useless to have >1 layer in it w/out public key crypto
36003c2686f1248d…465302a5…2022-11-02 20:01:02 <phf> i'm kind of with locklin on this, it's because we've replaced slide rules with digital :>
6fe4b033aa56dbc0…b2c77fae…2022-11-02 23:27:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015369 << main 'filter' is 100+yo by nao -- if you aint a farmer or 'nobility', children are expensive pets, rather than +ev workforce. so trend to logical conclusion.
3397ddaec4339d71…66bf4d55…2022-12-08 17:12:26 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/C9293B16A16041E0D67790A7D5C56A34D8FB728A.asc
44774182e643c86b…796fae85…2022-12-08 17:13:45 <signpost> from prior input, which contained the [foo][blah]
7c358688e643c86b…e643c86b…2022-12-13 21:51:43 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-12#1018293 phf, signpost, I was been very unlucky before.
9895a1e190c7e7f8…90c7e7f8…2022-10-25 17:50:32 <signpost> and I'm sure the bankers will make a killing all the way down
28a447b653eff3b1…53eff3b1…2022-10-31 16:39:49 <asciilifeform> in pest we only have it for nat-drilling process, i.e. addrcast is a way to reach out w/ addr to a stranded peer w/ whom you still have a shared net.
a460ee3536003c26…86f1248d…2022-11-02 20:01:42 <asciilifeform> 'invent future' gave way to 'how do i con the folx with the printer, brrr outta somemoar dough'; so long ago that phrase 'invent future' nao sounds quite like sovok 'apple trees on mars' nostalgia flavour
6fc95f4b6fe4b033…cca9c170…2022-11-02 23:28:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 18:04:33 signpost: makes me wonder whether there's a mechanism which *WILL* impose a filter upon reproduction no matter how unthreatening the environment becomes.
c6dfa132e5ba2ab2…d14b867d…2022-12-08 16:45:20 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017775 << ty, just snagged a copy
8f67f38e7c358688…e31e03fc…2022-12-13 21:51:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:19:20 phf[asciilifeform]: and in something complete different, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-12-07#1114279 is there enough theoretical machinery in the protocol at this moment for there to be a self heal, when peers switch ips or otherwise go down
c6cb18c59895a1e1…9895a1e1…2022-10-25 17:52:07 <signpost> if there's one thing that can be relied upon, it's that everything that is not a banker will be sacrificed first.
183bdf3b52a82692…df9be9b7…2022-10-28 15:53:48 <billymg> they cut their dick/tits off in the pursuit of "meaning", wainot now find meaning in saving others from their fate?
d22e2cd228a447b6…28a447b6…2022-10-31 16:40:10 <asciilifeform> but the ultimate objective is always to re-establish proper p2pism, rather than 'broken telephone'
c1494f5ca460ee35…a460ee35…2022-11-02 20:04:16 <asciilifeform> the iron for e.g. lispm on fpga costs coupla hundy. but who has time, to recreate the os etc. (other than aristocrats, very busy with quite other biz, lol )
cdd4a6eca4128aff…81784a09…2022-11-08 16:56:58 <asciilifeform> 'tldr' -- put cock in bear trap before putting coin in 'bitcoin finance'(tm)(r)
76db938dc6dfa132…8867f3cf…2022-12-08 16:46:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 09:10:46 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017772 << one of the first books that made me "sad" https://www.elsevier.com/books/swarm-intelligence/eberhart/978-1-55860-595-4 because i realized that the "man in an ivory tower" is not a thing
6f99bd4992e00348…92e00348…2022-12-08 17:17:02 <signpost> seems like simplest fix to deedbot might be to make !!register take a requested-nick arg, !!register <nick> <key-url>
048b5dbdc6cb18c5…e1456943…2022-10-25 17:52:55 <asciilifeform> 'banker' is imho somewhat of a misnomer for the folx printing moolah to stuff in own pocket.
02885d43183bdf3b…85ff824a…2022-10-28 15:51:50 <asciilifeform> afaik these folx still collecting 'women in kompyooting scholarships' etc. just as before
19371033d22e2cd2…d22e2cd2…2022-10-31 16:49:49 <asciilifeform> ( other thing is that in pest, one aint guaranteed to know anyffin re yer peers' peers , they may as well be figments of imagination , from cryptological pov . )
2aa46e67c1494f5c…4692bac7…2022-11-02 20:05:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:04:55 asciilifeform[5]: 'wai do anyffin but lines of coke off back of whore, if yer not a luser' etc
b1238242dcc459ea…cbeb059d…2022-11-02 23:28:10 <phf> сегодня ты играешь треш, а завтра бабу свою съешь
bccabe126f99bd49…6f99bd49…2022-12-08 17:18:07 <signpost> was just a convenience that it took w/e nick currently in use by the sender; sender could /nick fart at any time to reg something else.
02b2f935b2957bed…b2957bed…2022-12-13 21:56:46 <unpx> I should gather together Manul Laphroaig's writings
876f7a2d048b5dbd…048b5dbd…2022-10-25 17:54:24 <asciilifeform> ( at one time in what is nao the reich, there were actual bankers, who had to persuade sumbody to lend'em dough. and, i suppose, at the peripheries of the reich, these still exist )
396177d202885d43…183bdf3b…2022-10-28 15:58:59 <billymg> at least on the surface it appears that economic realities are starting to force companies to end those programs
eed4410219371033…19371033…2022-10-31 16:51:38 <asciilifeform> the correct way to 'reach out and touch' peer's peer is to send him a pgpgram paste and make an actual peering with him.
9e975fab2aa46e67…5e92221a…2022-11-02 20:04:55 <signpost> sounds like another consequence of the evisceration of the economic middle, which happened in parallel to this era.
9afa93aab1238242…6fe4b033…2022-11-02 23:28:19 <asciilifeform> signpost: recently found out that partizans dynamited'em
87f06f8cbccabe12…bccabe12…2022-12-08 17:22:32 <signpost> unpx says perhaps addrcast got him my IP before he had time to update his AT
bccf85c402b2f935…f6d5ca92…2022-12-14 00:23:26 asciilifeform in AT still sees 'no packets received' from unpx
0d819bbb02b2f935…02b2f935…2022-12-14 08:11:53 <unpx> asciilifeform same. And what scares me is that I don't know why.
07ce1e40396177d2…396177d2…2022-10-28 15:59:47 <billymg> or as putin put it: "But people cannot be fed with printed dollars and euros. You can't feed them with those pieces of paper, and the virtual, inflated capitalisation of western social media companies can't heat their homes."
8491e214eed44102…eed44102…2022-10-31 16:52:00 <asciilifeform> then transforms from 'figment' to peer.
c96bf678bccf85c4…4e4e6f49…2022-12-14 04:15:32 <lobbes> in other news, my station should now be up to spec in terms of silently rejecting all icmp packets. [crib notes updated][http://www.lobbesblog.com/2022/12/pest-crib-notes-standing-up-blatta-v9971-in-centos610-with-python266/#selection-89.0-89.14]
f8413bd00d819bbb…5964a6a3…2022-12-14 15:53:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-13#1018298 << i thought awt disable addrcast, so the only way AT recovery happens is if everyone but one station changes ip at a time, and the synchronizes before the next station does
241cd6140d819bbb…0d819bbb…2022-12-15 14:15:01 <unpx> crtdaydreams: either addr cast or just that my IP didn't change and my AT updated once I received one valid message from you.
41ce8eb607ce1e40…a4a0606e…2022-10-28 16:03:44 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014513 << this is happening; I've been touring various groups that I think will eventually benefit from pest.
203484711bca210c…c1494f5c…2022-11-02 20:05:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: tbf greenblatt et al weren't amateurs in kitchen, but eaters at a very generous pentagon trough
d2d939f287a40347…dcc459ea…2022-11-02 23:28:50 <signpost> re: oc, also need to chop into many simple-bit-vectors rather than sitting all blocks down into one large bit-vector
fa4c429ff8413bd0…f892b275…2022-12-14 15:54:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-13 19:24:34 asciilifeform[5]: in AT still sees 'no packets received' from unpx
fc16cf0d41ce8eb6…1c4f6789…2022-10-28 16:04:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 11:47:10 billymg: could see some of the victims becoming "born again" activists of sorts, "it happened to me, don't let it happen to you"
c34a5dd8c474f2e2…d22e2cd2…2022-10-31 16:53:02 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014665 << i like the gossip feature that unless you get a direct message, it's otherwise a hearsay. if you don't have a direct link to asciilifeform you can figure out how to establish it in public forum, rather than attempt to construct a hidden, yet bulletproof side channel
87819df920348471…20348471…2022-11-02 20:07:11 <asciilifeform> trough still, theoretically there; but when disgorges coupla $mil, what it buys is 10kloc of java and coupla yachts, typically
258f42a7d2d939f2…87a40347…2022-11-02 23:29:29 <asciilifeform> signpost: can one easily invoke mmap from sbcl ? ( expect that could, if only via ffi )
caa63bcbcf4492a8…1972fc95…2022-12-08 17:28:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017825 << same ip as 2w ago ?
57d3a7e4fa4c429f…f8413bd0…2022-12-14 15:53:56 <phf> at least i'm not getting any addrcast messages from anyone
3885879d49d6ff17…463d83ca…2022-12-15 18:49:19 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018542 << fair 'nuff. I may have misunderstood your understanding
f7bdb46049d6ff17…49d6ff17…2022-12-25 00:43:32 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087123 <<< Found looking for Haskell. Funny enough this reassure me, because I was thinking to rewrite some stuff. I'll just have to fix my scope on one implementation, or write my own because I'd like better tooling. But the latter would get in the way of getting al
325482d68a0d7fb5…2e7579c4…2022-10-25 18:00:06 <signpost> curious if big money is already postioning for the increased BRRRRRRR
5a6a0421fc16cf0d…41ce8eb6…2022-10-28 16:04:44 <signpost> https://twitter.com/ChoooCole << one such example
f0351b76c34a5dd8…97e11fdc…2022-10-31 16:54:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 12:30:28 signpost: leaving aside the baggage of tor, would such a thing be useful for "onion" messages, say in the case where I lose contact with asciilifeform but hope that by peer propagation I can get a message to him? seems like if a hypothetical cipher like that could be had, the message could be
6b3e738e258f42a7…d2d939f2…2022-11-02 23:29:30 <signpost> sbcl's fast bit ops (xor in this case) can't be run quickly over displaced arrays, unfortunately.
a2d6c83acaa63bcb…ef57fe4f…2022-12-08 17:29:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 12:05:32 unpx[jonsykkel]: asciilifeform, tried, can't reach you somehow
d43e5ec957d3a7e4…57d3a7e4…2022-12-14 15:55:38 <phf> and you've changed your ip at least once in the past few months, because i remember updating it
a96c21643885879d…272f47bb…2022-12-15 18:50:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 20:36:39 asciilifeform[4]: pretty sure that understood phf's tho ( imho -- entirely reasonable admonition against '1nce the rockets go up, who cares where they come down, that aint my department, said wehrner von braun'(tm)(r)(lehrer) )
3eb59a62f7bdb460…4af6a3b3…2022-12-25 00:43:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-22 mangol: Scheme culture is very "get down to business", "just get it done". scheme programming doesn't really involve thinking about what tool to use.
1fc7aa415a6a0421…5a6a0421…2022-10-28 16:06:11 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014508 << even if tmsr withered prematurely, this *is* still emanating from bitcoin.
21e95846f0351b76…c34a5dd8…2022-10-31 16:54:59 <phf> because your hearsay flow is basically a public forum, observable by all participants, in my estimation gross interference becomes rapidly obvious
d14b4a8244fa7a84…76199299…2022-11-08 18:46:57 <signpost> damn, I kinda want to go put some limit orders in at like $10k
0bfdda7ba2d6c83a…cf4492a8…2022-12-08 17:30:30 <signpost> !!register signpost http://butts.com/key.txt
8981810dd43e5ec9…d43e5ec9…2022-12-14 16:16:01 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-18#1013124 afaik this is the last release
b0581b23a96c2164…3885879d…2022-12-15 18:49:26 <lobbes> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-12-14#1114350 << As of now, I no longer own any land, so nothing to culture atm. Though, my next house I am pretty sold on the idea of not having a lawn at all, at least not of grass. I may just plant clover seeds and let it spread / let whatever wild plants do their thing
610407188fe46905…8fe46905…2022-12-25 00:56:16 <unpx> What this feels like is choosing my own bedrock abstraction
1a682c53d50e2209…876f7a2d…2022-10-25 18:09:36 <asciilifeform> apropos, asciilifeform's heuristic for selling coin.
977a761a1fc7aa41…fc16cf0d…2022-10-28 16:07:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 11:43:18 billymg: yeah, they pushed it so far that "trad" is now counterculture. zoomer girls on tiktok openly promoting becoming a mother/housewife, young men eating right and exercising, etc.
0c6c78c221e95846…21e95846…2022-10-31 16:56:53 <phf> but i can also appreciate how this approach is at odds with the attempts to make pest an underlying protocol for all kinds of comsumer stuff, because there's all kinds of automatic behaviors "consumer comes to expect"
bbfc042b6d1b1aeb…6d1b1aeb…2022-11-02 20:14:51 <asciilifeform> + as phf alluded to, close contact w/ 'modern kompyooting' is enuff to cure justabout anyone of all desire to 'try to greenblatt'
c2e9173fd14b4a82…d14b4a82…2022-11-08 18:47:32 <signpost> doesn't seem urgent though. oughta be in bust mode for what, a year or so traditionally?
fbcde48e0bfdda7b…3397ddae…2022-12-08 17:30:31 <deedbot> FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4 is already registered as signpost.
dc842ced8981810d…fa4c429f…2022-12-14 16:17:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-18 20:15:50 awt: [9971 with mcrypt, potential prod loop fix, ac disabled by default][http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/]
41dfcb1cb0581b23…44f38ca8…2022-12-15 18:49:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-14 crtdaydreams: taken to permaculture, lobbes?
6eb843a961040718…61040718…2022-12-25 02:39:47 <unpx> asciilifeform: https://unpx.net/d4/articles/2022-11-alchemy.xhtml
635e3ea91a682c53…ca9250e9…2022-10-25 18:09:37 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: spend no coin where...
786766b3977a761a…1fc7aa41…2022-10-28 16:07:07 signpost expects us to end up having been a century or two early, not that it'll matter to us.
61f1033bbbfc042b…bbfc042b…2022-11-02 20:15:31 <asciilifeform> what remains is the diagnosable schizos and a few old men.
2cbbed1be9181746…e9181746…2022-11-02 23:30:00 <signpost> this prototype's all in memory, but will need to move to mmap or other suitable file interaction means
a9320c4fc2e9173f…e52a2328…2022-11-08 18:56:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: iirc in 'bust mode' for yr+ nao neh
2b15c189fbcde48e…0bfdda7b…2022-12-08 17:31:04 <signpost> alrighty, deedbot registrations will work for relayed peers now
ebd3dc51dc842ced…bccf85c4…2022-12-14 16:43:28 <asciilifeform> phf: aha iirc disabled by default currently; and to add to headache, of course old vers dun even relay addrcasts
bf5fdffe41dfcb1c…b0581b23…2022-12-15 18:50:45 <lobbes> the last house I had was in a way too 'suburban' neighborhood for my liking
5ed2d9cc635e3ea9…635e3ea9…2022-10-25 18:09:37 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement)
c34719f2786766b3…fa04a1bf…2022-10-28 16:11:42 <shinohai> But signpost we can yell into the void from Valhalla about how we were there first!
6d408e4b5ee27104…0c6c78c2…2022-10-31 16:57:34 <phf> or for that matter the fact that asciilifeform not longer explicitly set out to create a gossip protocol
2f285d8d61f1033b…1bca210c…2022-11-02 20:16:32 <signpost> commentary on where inventing the future went; printola destroys the pentagon's ability to select as much as it destroys the (at one point) young men's ability to produce.
0c046f212cbbed1b…2cbbed1b…2022-11-02 23:32:43 <signpost> phf: I nibble on her time to time but so far haven't torn off a bite.
d88418dea9320c4f…a9320c4f…2022-11-08 18:59:29 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform's mental algo -- (defun bust-mode-p (btcusd) (< btcusd *all-time-high*)) )
051a44eaebd3dc51…ebd3dc51…2022-12-14 16:45:09 <asciilifeform> phf: does your pestron proto eat addrcast ?
1e4500e790747672…90747672…2023-01-12 07:12:20 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-10#1020359 <<< I see most people use it for availability and their free services (e.g. web hosting).
b105a26a5ed2d9cc…5ed2d9cc…2022-10-25 18:09:37 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 2. ... in exchange for ~fuffles~ (e.g. bags of fiat not immediately destined to be spent on durable necessities; plastic autos; titles to 'property' in the reich)
61a1ec622f285d8d…61f1033b…2022-11-02 20:16:56 <asciilifeform> signpost: the selectees, unsurprisingly, 'exam-take'
5697faa70c046f21…b1238242…2022-11-02 23:34:20 <phf> asciilifeform, which reminds me that i know a girl who works for the ministry of culture, and she got a call for a laundromat, and she said "no, i'm sorry, this is a wrong phone number" and hung up. every time we drink she brings it up as the biggest regret of her life
ab381d04d88418de…c2e9173f…2022-11-08 19:01:19 <signpost> looks like bottom of market was about jan-sept 15 after gox failure, next one was approx oct'18-mar'19
f528e3b8051a44ea…16a6be04…2022-12-14 16:50:39 <awt> Yes, addrcast disabled by default. Need to randomly space out the broadcasts.
e1de1caa0c5eabdf…0c5eabdf…2022-12-28 22:31:50 <asciilifeform> phf: is entirely valid point, difficult to disagree. q is 'wat do'
907542621e4500e7…68387efa…2023-01-12 07:12:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-10 18:17:35 asciilifeform: billymg: already difficult to picture wtf one'd use e.g. shithub
ed44e0d81e4500e7…1e4500e7…2023-01-14 17:27:30 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-10#1020359 <<< or this, whether this is actually useful or not. https://github.com/isislovecruft/library--
def442f4b105a26a…b105a26a…2022-10-25 18:09:37 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 3. ... when it'd be your last coin.
824396b043682af1…43682af1…2022-10-28 16:41:15 <signpost> billymg: also, the lesbians are never going to stand for the destruction of the babies. lesbianism is, I remain convinced, a natural and necessary reaction to existing in a sea of unsuitable and reprehensible men.
a78466c83eaa39ec…9941ca14…2022-10-31 16:58:07 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-06 asciilifeform: recognizes the 'inelegance' of the h(s) scheme , 'yer trying to get the win from rsa sigs w/out paying price of rsa, and will never be as good as Real Thing' but imho over9000x beats 'nuffin'
dac13c9561a1ec62…2f285d8d…2022-11-02 20:17:26 <signpost> pentagon trough at one point produced sr71. trough's not by itself a sin, but what's in it, who eats.
89be8a11e1de1caa…e1de1caa…2022-12-28 22:33:06 asciilifeform fwiw 'solves' above with 'jpgs sit down on his www /pub, and sit for arbitrary yrs'. but this aint a general solution.
593b07cbed44e0d8…90754262…2023-01-14 17:27:34 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-10 18:17:35 asciilifeform: billymg: already difficult to picture wtf one'd use e.g. shithub
e0ae9349ed44e0d8…ed44e0d8…2023-01-14 17:49:02 <unpx> asciilifeform: indeed I wish I could sort out my own downloads dir :^) I just made a db to search words in it, heh
b1b41a52def442f4…1a682c53…2022-10-25 18:12:14 <asciilifeform> observe that the folx who not followed this algo, tend to now have ~0 coin, after n yrs, no matter how many started with
6b931d50824396b0…824396b0…2022-10-28 16:41:22 <signpost> they're a fundamentally different thing than the male gays.
4ce710dc29533bec…29533bec…2022-11-02 23:41:06 asciilifeform wunders how sumbody goes from 'let's painfully reverse & map out fpga and write verilog synth' to this, but not comes up with any hypothesis other than phf's
d78c640909b6f9dd…09b6f9dd…2022-11-08 19:02:22 <signpost> seems to my amateur butt though that there's more gox hot-air in the "market" today than ever.
c1899b709dd53e85…9dd53e85…2022-12-08 17:39:07 <signpost> http://wot.deedbot.org/ << fixed the styles causing overlapping graph too; report in if anyone sees a buggered up page pls
16877ce529cef3fa…8981810d…2022-12-14 16:52:11 <phf> asciilifeform, it logs packets that are not otherwise explicitly silenced ("ignore" is the only message type that's like that)
a76bef2089be8a11…7e689aca…2022-12-28 23:02:24 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019640 << wot helps solve this imho.
2f59bac8593b07cb…bc5bc2c3…2023-01-14 17:32:03 <asciilifeform> unpx: by all appearances, it's an (infamous lulcow's) 'downloads dir' hdd backup. looks rather snore imho.
b825fd5ae0ae9349…e0ae9349…2023-01-18 15:27:01 <unpx> I'm trying to understand what this is/was about, but looks like a lot have changed since then.
f83d10116b931d50…6b931d50…2022-10-28 16:42:26 <signpost> the women huddle together to save the babies; the men huddle together to hide from their fear of the women.
cc172e3a045db0b8…a78466c8…2022-10-31 16:58:46 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-06 asciilifeform: a primary objective of pest algo is 'messages cheap enuff to process that you can do it at nic line rate', and sadly incompat. w/ the use of any known serious pubkey sig algo w/out custom iron.
0ead3e6a0a36a97c…61a1ec62…2022-11-02 20:18:42 <asciilifeform> same thing happened in sovok. 1st gen of folx who actually amounted to sumthing; then, their children, and the latter 'coke from back of whore'(tm) and finita la commedia
089de5cb4ce710dc…6fc95f4b…2022-11-02 23:42:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:36:25 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: [twatter ftr][https://twitter.com/oe1cxw]
ac35b2ead78c6409…d88418de…2022-11-08 19:03:58 asciilifeform admits that not follows 'air' in realtime, so not knows
8c737bb1c1899b70…c1899b70…2022-12-08 17:39:24 <signpost> still regenerating, so profile pages will be updated soon.
4d98bfdba76bef20…81b12aa2…2022-12-28 23:03:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 16:45:37 phf[awt]: that there's a hole, because everyone's warez knobs are set to 2 years.
568a83a92f59bac8…2f59bac8…2023-01-14 17:33:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-14#1020375 << the 'fall of the finns' (who were an indisputable oasis of coolthings in '90s) is still a historical mystery (tm) to asciilifeform
de715ab0b825fd5a…b825fd5a…2023-01-18 15:29:28 <unpx> TMSR came to mind while reading about Republic by Plato.
45ea9335a34f90e7…05cffc57…2022-10-25 18:12:45 <awt> Articles on bonds read like excerpts from random postmodernist journals to me.
0d71b669f83d1011…07ce1e40…2022-10-28 16:51:43 <billymg> signpost: hadn't thought of it like that before but makes sense
68981e79cc172e3a…045db0b8…2022-10-31 17:17:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014691 << from asciilifeform's pov, notion of pest is to revv up a proper internet, using the traditional one in same way as it used the old telecom wiring, and extend from there. which is rather different affair from
a992ada10ead3e6a…36003c26…2022-11-02 20:18:47 <phf> there's a music package on whisperer tapes, that is a kind of shared endeavor by various researchers, that was never released or even given a name ("defsystem MUSIC"). somebody at CCRMA packaged and released a (significantly evolved and nerfed) subset of it as Common Music, and i suspect the reason why it's significantly n
745d85f5089de5cb…089de5cb…2022-11-02 23:42:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 15:37:18 phf[awt]: and the whole "biplar lisp programmer" has nothing to do with lisp machine world, and more to do with the fact that by the time that meme appears most people who still write code are insane (or at least most vocal ones, the xah lees and the naggums)
e0b70b66ac35b2ea…d78c6409…2022-11-08 19:06:11 <signpost> https://twitter.com/ftx_app/status/1417497465574539277?lang=en << this piece of shit is in the skillet today.
2c8455f58c737bb1…a869dbbe…2022-12-08 17:44:27 <phf> signpost, i haven't use for peering yet, because i'm still single station
cadabee898b455eb…16877ce5…2022-12-14 16:54:45 <phf> it keeps them around as ephemera, so i can inspect them and maybe live repl a real response, and, having done, that crystalize that into concrete code.
61b0fd774d98bfdb…a76bef20…2022-12-28 23:02:45 <signpost> I would store just about anything indefinitely from l1. much less inclined to as one proceeds outward.
947d705d46137833…3c144850…2023-01-12 13:19:15 <awt> Sad times when such meagre price movement scraps provide any amount of entertainment.
cefcc419568a83a9…6a6ad6d3…2023-01-14 17:35:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-14 11:39:56 jonsykkel: the finns invented all the good stuff apparently
4e4c6682de715ab0…e979d303…2023-01-18 16:16:27 <phf> a failed experiment at governance, novel way of structuring of business and social relationships, a way to boldly ride the kali yuga. the person chiefly responsible for setting up and running the experiment proclaimed it a failure and then passed away.
416617fb0d71b669…0d71b669…2022-10-28 16:56:13 <billymg> imo one of the biggest lulz of the whole tranny thing is men (troonz) harassing/threatening women (which they call "TERFS") and calling it "progressive/inclusive"
79d8190868981e79…cc172e3a…2022-10-31 17:17:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-21 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: 'secret' objective of pest is to build a wotronic internet parasitically on top of existing comms.
011a556268981e79…f0351b76…2022-10-31 17:18:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 12:58:03 phf[awt]: but i can also appreciate how this approach is at odds with the attempts to make pest an underlying protocol for all kinds of comsumer stuff, because there's all kinds of automatic behaviors "consumer comes to expect"
2763b677a992ada1…a992ada1…2022-11-02 20:18:47 <phf> erfed is because it's chock full of patented stuff. i've not spent much time establishing that the codes are the same, but cursory look at definstrument form seems to imply they are identical. but anyway there's a bunch of code in there written by john chowning, the inventor and the main patenter of FM synthesis, and judgi
5dd13da9745d85f5…3a944e2e…2022-11-03 01:38:32 <shinohai> jfc the nightmares that twitter link induces. Imma have to go stick my face in some snatch RIGHT NOW to remove that atrocity from my memory.
91f542172c8455f5…2c8455f5…2022-12-08 17:45:04 <phf> i'm still trying to figure out how to do packet-insert properly
5e2f593e2c8455f5…fa185455…2022-12-08 17:50:01 <shinohai> if unpx rejoins, will rate. (Saw in nosuchlabs logs he still has peering difficulties).
cf4680a5cadabee8…98b455eb…2022-12-14 16:55:01 <asciilifeform> ( for the nat drill mechanism to work, both ends gotta support 'prod' and 'addrcast', and the peer they have in common has to relay the 'addrcast'. and, on top of this, if 1 or both are in 'symmetric nat', the old mechanism aint enuff; need the 'hammer' described in new draft)
24009c0961b0fd77…61b0fd77…2022-12-28 23:04:25 <signpost> seems well-mapped to the social expectations too. your friends remember you best.
72c58e9ecefcc419…568a83a9…2023-01-14 17:35:06 <asciilifeform> ( tho for all asciilifeform knows, is possible they still have a working parallel universe, with a working usenet, pestnets predating pest per se, etc , whoknows )
2236e9414e4c6682…5671cbb2…2023-01-18 16:20:10 <asciilifeform> well, was billed as mechanized attempt to revive 'good old' (i.e. medieval) ways of structuring relationships, but yes
8d4ce9577913ede3…7913ede3…2022-10-25 18:13:08 <asciilifeform> awt: to asciilifeform , read moar like horoscopes
67e7f3dc416617fb…f83d1011…2022-10-28 16:52:20 <signpost> the girls are built to take endless shit from reality, and it's male duty to see that this doesn't happen.
4abdc0b2011a5562…68981e79…2022-10-31 17:18:06 <asciilifeform> not to say that standing up a pestron oughta be 'phd assembly line'(tm), necessarily. but 'errything oughta be made simple as possible, but not simpler'(tm).
57fc09d35379eb82…ac35b2ea…2022-11-08 19:10:29 <asciilifeform> lulzy how there seems to be 0 limit on how many times 'dampen exchrate by popping a gox and dumping the coinz on open market' worx -- coinz end up back in yet other goxes, rinse, repeat
1e33549a91f54217…91f54217…2022-12-08 17:46:06 <phf> actually, maybe i could just add multipeer, meanwhile. because all i need to do is a dup check…
fe8f232624009c09…24009c09…2022-12-28 23:04:55 <signpost> and they're the best folks to ask "do you remember so-and-so" when you're gone
32f086672236e941…4e4c6682…2023-01-18 16:22:16 <phf> *this* place is now a hangout spot for frens, and some people who i guess missed out on the original run and are in it for the various projects. projects that maybe continue in the vein of tmsr thought, but only in a superficial way
b3b1c192ffcf47f3…1e263b61…2023-01-18 17:28:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:56:48 phf[awt]: the early catechisms, before hodl, were novel ideas about pgp contracts and corporations, counterparty relationships mediated by strong crypto, novel system of trust. there's a reason it's the most serene republic, the previous serene republics being venice, genoa and lucca
faac6a161e1c463f…1ff96b3a…2023-01-18 17:33:36 <asciilifeform> ... 1) early phase (early 2010s), prior to when most of us saw him, but to small degree reflected in old logs and his old ro www -- d00d was involved in ro politics, 'zoological' anticommunist, etc. and quite popular in that sphere, but unknown in engl. world
9b113d7e8d4ce957…8d4ce957…2022-10-25 18:13:54 <asciilifeform> 'jupiter is aligning with mars, so pisces advised to buy UST but virgo -- to sell' etc
1ff2463967e7f3dc…67e7f3dc…2022-10-28 16:52:28 <signpost> what, they're going to fight them off themselves?
ba4e61364abdc0b2…4abdc0b2…2022-10-31 17:18:53 <asciilifeform> * ... which is rather different affair from 'konsoomer bangs fist on pnoje', conceptually
437516af1b47b3d2…0ead3e6a…2022-11-02 20:19:42 <asciilifeform> phf: may explain the otherwise mysterious inclusion of a princely 16bit/44khz (iirc) sound card in the 36xx consoles
87bb47671b47b3d2…ed03a550…2022-11-02 20:22:13 <asciilifeform> the 'golden toilet' luxury of ^ possible not obv to modern eyes -- but there was equiv. of 2 or 3 'commodore amigas' in there, transistor for transistor
3ab2ecdb57fc09d3…57fc09d3…2022-11-08 19:14:13 <asciilifeform> ... on top of this, the 'lemmings' who 'gotta sell, cuz going down!!' never -- collectively -- seem to run outta coin to dump
3de22bad1e33549a…1e33549a…2022-12-08 17:47:10 <phf> i'm trying to understand how multiple parallel netchains are supposed to work…
f6300fc666015741…eff1a148…2022-12-14 17:02:27 <billymg> trb node operators to be required to register as money service providers
9a93c72dfe8f2326…fe8f2326…2022-12-28 23:07:20 <signpost> perfectly good answer to ^ is "who the fuck are you, again?" too, depending on who asks.
8db45b26bc8ea436…7e0e9b63…2023-02-19 14:40:58 <awt> Lol was just going to comment - restarted and all the sudden getting a flood of getdatas from mod6
1ff96b3ab3b1c192…ffcf47f3…2023-01-18 17:32:39 <asciilifeform> for folx who not tuned in for past ~decade, mp was effectively '4 people' :
711954ca9b113d7e…9b113d7e…2022-10-25 18:15:01 asciilifeform generally of the 'all useful info is 'insider', so if it's public, it's for chump-herding' school of thought
781b96841ff24639…1ff24639…2022-10-28 16:53:25 <signpost> so they've allowed this parasitism from all the decoy "babies".
36d6f2fcba4e6136…ba4e6136…2022-10-31 17:24:08 <asciilifeform> ultimately the participants have to remain aware that bw is 'not rubber' and can't throw GB+ of warez in 'all to all', 'onionism', etc. and expect any kinda useful performance
ccd3ff883ab2ecdb…3ab2ecdb…2022-11-08 19:16:26 <asciilifeform> ( the reason wainot, imho elementarily, is that 'no actual btc harmed in the making of this production' -- they're 'trading' papercoinz, which printed in ~unlimited qty )
2ca7b7e63de22bad…8c737bb1…2022-12-08 17:48:53 <signpost> ah ok. not a rush, key will be there when usable.
f1df1b72019e4517…a97e73c5…2022-12-08 17:51:25 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=5DX1
08e10b60f6300fc6…cadabee8…2022-12-14 16:58:29 <phf> i don't for example rebuild backlog, i just (prod) and then (GETDATA (RED-PACKET-BROADCASTNETCHAIN last-red))
e0c7e0d69a93c72d…61694e63…2022-12-28 23:07:50 <phf> i think that's only an acceptable solution for warez, but not for essential elements of log
5a34c1688db45b26…8db45b26…2023-02-19 14:46:10 <awt> phf, asciilifeform, cgra: my station is currently on Blatta 9969. AC from my station should be very rare going forward.
1e263b61d81d081a…853ae25e…2023-01-18 16:26:17 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-02-04 asciilifeform: mp was talented mountebank, a la barnum, and in #t maintained an addictive, to many folx, atmosphere of 'движуха' (untranslatable, but roughly 'errything in motion!!', 'happening!')
1abc05b15ce7b9d6…5fe14a6d…2023-01-18 17:35:52 <asciilifeform> 3) 'tmsr golden age' where pushed mechanized 'contracts without enforcement, but purely on reputation', 'venetian' retro-engineering, attracted a # of technical hands, interesting things were built
a34cdaaf5ce7b9d6…5ce7b9d6…2023-01-18 17:42:16 <unpx> phf, I see whaat you mean. asciilifeform, thank you for the extensive summary.
e8954690711954ca…d50e2209…2022-10-25 18:16:18 <signpost> oh sure, they're telling folks to buy in that article.
108c1a5e781b9684…781b9684…2022-10-28 16:53:43 <signpost> *in the absence of masculinity that would not tolerate it.
89ba1c5236d6f2fc…36d6f2fc…2022-10-31 17:25:17 <asciilifeform> use cases where 'heavy' traffic are necessarily b/w 2 peers with working direct linkage.
b67008f8050325f4…050325f4…2022-11-02 20:23:11 asciilifeform not ever owned the 2nd edition of console, so not knows if moar compact / vlsi'd
4483b4d8ccd3ff88…ccd3ff88…2022-11-08 19:17:23 <asciilifeform> i.e. precisely what keeps ye olde au down even as usd 'goes to toiletpaper'
c13780eff1df1b72…019e4517…2022-12-08 17:52:13 <signpost> !!v 4271EEA3A812B0ECB01B7C05AC17FD065D7696A3316505630ECF229C12C10B02
f8c3fe6908e10b60…08e10b60…2022-12-14 16:59:19 <phf> so i've been doing it like that for couple of weeks, until i wired prod into process-packet mainloop, now it does the second step automatically. i still manaully (prod) on boot :>
52dd5f93e0c7e0d6…e0c7e0d6…2022-12-28 23:08:59 <phf> hey, i'm not in your wot, but i'm reading log from 2014 and somebody posted a funny image, and everybody's laughing. you still have a copy of that image? said nobody ever
8086c9545a34c168…5a34c168…2023-02-19 14:46:50 <awt> Intersting "pheature" of this patch is that you can manually trigger an ac broadcast.
14d2ecb21e263b61…32f08667…2023-01-18 16:26:36 <phf> asciilifeform, medieval make it sound like some moldbug thing, with barons and estates. retvrn and all that. i don't remember any specific threads, but it's in the name. the original serenissima republica was republic of venice, which gave us novel and modern ways of structuring business and governance (e.g. the ledger)
a9715377fc3850c5…faac6a16…2023-01-18 17:34:40 <asciilifeform> 2) early days of bitcoinism, where was converting ro-perestroika-looted fiat into btc, consorting with small-time dealers of varying degrees of scammitude, etc
d58b83681abc05b1…1abc05b1…2023-01-18 17:36:50 <asciilifeform> 4) 'fuhrerbunker' phase where was clear that 'golden future' aint materializing, nato reich aint aboutta fold up shop, folx leaving, mp demanding 'shaheed' sacrifices from followers, 'unpersonings' of 'traitors' etc.
726659ada34cdaaf…65c89c0c…2023-01-18 17:43:04 <asciilifeform> unpx: asciilifeform worked closely with subj for some yrs, '13-'18, on # of projects
370ad59fa34cdaaf…a34cdaaf…2023-01-18 22:49:56 <unpx> phf, did you notice that barksinthewind.com renders ``Error establishing a database connection''?
61a09abbe8954690…711954ca…2022-10-25 18:29:06 <asciilifeform> ( see also mp's review of 'chump list' algo )
2fea90bb108c1a5e…416617fb…2022-10-28 17:06:48 billymg wasn't saying 'lulz' as in 'everyone laugh at the women getting harassed by troonz' but rather just pointing out the absurdity of it
effaded489ba1c52…011a5562…2022-10-31 17:26:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-30 10:42:33 asciilifeform[5]: signpost: pretty neat. you'll want file chunks as direct msg tho, rather than broadcast, if you let'em all-to-all no amt of bw will ever suffice. iirc we had a thread where 'let each station offer operator-selected files to own peers'.
6e2e96904483b4d8…4483b4d8…2022-11-08 19:18:47 <asciilifeform> moron goes to gox, hands in some green printolade in exch for some 'yellow' printolade.
076422efc13780ef…f1df1b72…2022-12-08 17:52:14 <deedbot> signpost rated unpx 1 << https://unpx.net/d4/
ad29a21cf8c3fe69…f6300fc6…2022-12-14 17:05:21 <billymg> getting awfully close to http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2020-12-17#1026649
b4582ef68086c954…8086c954…2023-02-19 14:47:53 <awt> Would be great if someone with a flaky IP could test it.
8b9919c114d2ecb2…14d2ecb2…2023-01-18 16:28:14 <phf> also asciilifeform doesn't miss an opportunity to mention that he personally doesn't like mircea anymore, and that his reason are true, justified and objective.
24930abcd58b8368…d58b8368…2023-01-18 17:37:38 <asciilifeform> all 4 imho equally pertinent when remembering the fella ( who fwiw 1 of the moar prolific and interesting net crackpots afaik to have lived to date )
7ada5720370ad59f…370ad59f…2023-01-18 23:17:25 <unpx> Oh, nvm http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009469
c5ea5f0961a09abb…def442f4…2022-10-25 18:29:06 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-02-01 mircea_popescu: 2. you gather leads for your "special picks" list, which you contact via email. this is your stable of suckers.
deb15f552fea90bb…2fea90bb…2022-10-28 17:07:52 <billymg> some will say "serves them right, they voted for this" -- yeah, but who let them?
cacd7e5feffaded4…89ba1c52…2022-10-31 17:27:05 asciilifeform at one time had crackpot notions of protocols where 'pay for transit' but not interested in baking shitcoins and left this well enuff alone, and intends to continue
dfc04992c1b47b6c…c1b47b6c…2022-11-02 20:23:51 <asciilifeform> both with in-house custom glass (nobody at the time sold off-the-shelf 'svga'-res. tube)
f1772effad29a21c…dc842ced…2022-12-14 17:00:40 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 asciilifeform: say this yr they ask 'do you hodl'. next 'please list addrs'. and 2022 -- list privkeys.. will list ?
c1fa45f8229f2475…229f2475…2022-12-28 23:09:44 <signpost> if you are not in my wot, or somebody else's.
e713386fb4582ef6…95c88979…2023-02-19 15:49:26 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023773 << somehow this isn't netchained to mod6's, but to prev awt's
434267128b9919c1…d81d081a…2023-01-18 17:24:32 <asciilifeform> phf: meant 'medieval' in most positive sense, lol, venice et al
3e887e7f24930abc…fc3850c5…2023-01-18 17:39:41 <phf> not necessarily is pertinent to the question of the original thread "what is/was tmsr", but always devolves into it
77c033f194cb162a…94cb162a…2023-01-18 17:43:39 <asciilifeform> ( as well as # of other folx who no longer tuned in. )
bc0460e17ada5720…7e53a2e8…2023-01-18 23:18:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-07-13 22:59:35 phf[billymg|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-07-13#1009404 << ty, i solved my periodic crashing httpd issue, but then i forgot to put mysql into rc.conf
844c804ec5ea5f09…c5ea5f09…2022-10-25 18:29:07 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-02-01 mircea_popescu: 3. you split them in equal halves and give one half one pick, the other your opposite.
713ca1f0deb15f55…108c1a5e…2022-10-28 17:04:20 <signpost> yeah mine was a counterpoint to yours, just elaboration of cause.
a95a4e49deb15f55…deb15f55…2022-10-28 17:09:13 billymg agrees with signpost's assessment, the problems come from lack of men/masculinity and can't be blamed on women, who the men neglected to take care of
2586d1aacacd7e5f…cacd7e5f…2022-10-31 17:31:50 <asciilifeform> the fundamental problem there is that while traditional telecoms, with satellites, oceanic fiber, etc. function -- the notion of competing with'em economically is a laff; but if not function, then 'your customers' over9000x moar interested in 7.62x39 and tinned beef than 'how send packet'. with little 'in the middle'.
a0499eefdfc04992…1b47b3d2…2022-11-02 20:24:27 <phf> “He spent six years turning his breakthrough into a system of musical importance and eventually was able to simulate a large number of musical sounds, including the singing voice. In 1974, Stanford University licensed the discovery to Yamaha,[4] with whom Chowning worked in developing a family of synthesizers and electro
07116fb086a01fb4…86a01fb4…2022-11-08 19:21:22 <asciilifeform> on the rare occasions when > n, for some n, folx show up to demand actual btc rather than yellow printolade -- 'ohnoez, we got hacked' etc
954ec67fc3569522…076422ef…2022-12-08 18:17:46 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=NNmy
333b58c7f1772eff…66015741…2022-12-14 16:59:52 <asciilifeform> billymg: lol, and dun fughet that mp3 users required to pay royalties to fraunhoffer, and torrent users, required to pay mpaa
5505c742e713386f…e6b10591…2023-02-19 15:50:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-19 09:42:31 awt: Lol was just going to comment - restarted and all the sudden getting a flood of getdatas from mod6
963db3b943426712…43426712…2023-01-18 17:25:32 <asciilifeform> 'late medieval', suppose, if to be pedantic
1c919cac3e887e7f…24930abc…2023-01-18 17:39:52 <asciilifeform> unpx: fwiw mp's www is still maintained by fans (for a short while was dead, and various folx baked mirrors) so can read what he had to say for himself w/out relying on anyone's summary.
80f425d877c033f1…77c033f1…2023-01-18 17:46:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020662 << apropos, there was an earlier b00k whose title presently escapes me -- collection of venetian spy dispatches found & decoded by historians.
fe120bdd844c804e…844c804e…2022-10-25 18:29:07 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-02-01 mircea_popescu: 4. you subdivide both divisions. now you have a list of people who know you fucked up twice, this you discard ; two lists of people who think you go tone out of two. these you merge ; a most valuable list of idiots who think you got 2 out of 2.
5245478a844c804e…e8954690…2022-10-25 19:43:34 <signpost> the flailing entertains me, but hey, not for everybody.
f5b8395a713ca1f0…02885d43…2022-10-28 17:04:43 <asciilifeform> 'ratchet broke, but spring still springy'(tm)(r)(mp)
19f28fa52586d1aa…6d408e4b…2022-10-31 17:43:54 <phf> can confirm, antena towers are used for facebook iphone, or else firestation volunteer comms, not so much for multihop microwave relay to unsit local shit internet monopoly
4f47a68da0499eef…a0499eef…2022-11-02 20:24:27 <phf> nic organs. This was Stanford's most lucrative patent at one time,[5] eclipsing many in electronics, computer science, and biotechnology.”
ebaf35c607116fb0…5379eb82…2022-11-08 19:21:51 <signpost> gotta move both out of the goxes and never transact more than you can afford to lose in the process.
fb62bf99954ec67f…c3569522…2022-12-08 18:18:13 <asciilifeform> !!v 73DA01D5B98AC8387908190CA9CEE75EA83CA0FF38A0AD229A6569DE6D775F97
ba4be4bc333b58c7…333b58c7…2022-12-14 17:00:33 <asciilifeform> phf: atm afaik just about erryone doing some variant of 'hand-cranked addrcast'
f356e6fa2a039cf8…c1fa45f8…2022-12-28 23:10:48 <signpost> maybe with a better definition of this "essential" it's clearer.
65c89c0c07daf3f4…1c919cac…2023-01-18 17:40:32 <asciilifeform> there's 'over9000 kilometres' in there, tho.
a0251d4280f425d8…b3b1c192…2023-01-18 17:48:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 12:33:58 unpx[jonsykkel]: I should finish this book, asciilifeform
436638e25e3f3f6c…5e3f3f6c…2023-02-10 21:45:42 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-08#1022544 << it has been a while I'm trying to do this, but you actually need a sane pool of paper, not just anything that iacr, arxiv and other public paper archives get. Thus for now my little attempt is deferred until I get a good enough list of books, papers and so on. Currently I'm
e021986dfe120bdd…61a09abb…2022-10-25 18:31:02 <asciilifeform> naodays, instead of hand-written lists send to morons by post, there are 'subscription sites', ~all operated by tentactles of the beast, but scheme is ~same.
1e6ae5555245478a…d7c1b23e…2022-10-25 19:44:50 <asciilifeform> prolly entertaining in 1/d^2 proportion to distance from the biznissend of the flail
d7161062f5b8395a…713ca1f0…2022-10-28 17:04:48 <signpost> "men in skirts are beating the fuck out of our girls, wat do?" is this really a question?
347db16819f28fa5…2586d1aa…2022-10-31 17:45:32 <asciilifeform> phf: 1 of the obv reasons for this is that 'konsoomer' has very high expectations. gb/s warez, rather than 'amazing, mr. marconi can send paragraph across ocean!' -- which can only be satisfied by astonishingly expensive grid
cb1f62ad4f47a68d…dfc04992…2022-11-02 20:25:13 <asciilifeform> yamaha opl3/4 & clones still humming along in over9000 toys aha
df935289ebaf35c6…07116fb0…2022-11-08 19:23:03 <asciilifeform> aa but how will they 'getrich!!!' by leveraging then.
88ff0734ba4be4bc…f8c3fe69…2022-12-14 17:00:54 <phf> and (prod) is just (SPOOL (MAKE-RED-PACKET :type :PROD …))
6c9e2194f356e6fa…f356e6fa…2022-12-28 23:11:21 <signpost> absent that my inclination is to let subjective matters like what's essential be a matter of operator control
2dec3c91b7031137…b7031137…2023-02-19 15:50:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-19 08:52:15 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023633 << please disgregard - this patch is suffering about 40% brain damage
fe4123bca0251d42…d3e850d8…2023-01-18 17:47:52 <asciilifeform> ( was interesting 'outside perspective' on the 'internal kitchens' of various kingdoms of the time )
3de0ff72ab73e393…cfb0242c…2023-01-19 02:59:35 asciilifeform in entirely unrelated tidbits, finally got sqliteism glue working in cpp pestron
29455562436638e2…436638e2…2023-02-10 21:45:42 <unpx> hosting it here, but the link to the code is simply wrong. https://unpx.net/corpus/
68192aaf436638e2…6e305982…2023-02-10 21:46:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 09:59:20 signpost: how about same over scientific papers, assuming for the moment that a corpus of real one could be had (the lack of which isn't the fault of this particular tech)
05735f8d1e6ae555…45ea9335…2022-10-25 19:53:58 <awt> signpost: I find it entertaining as well. I've listened to hours of bond/eurodollar talk on clubhouse this year. Everytime I think I understand there's yet another layer.
7476ccc3347db168…347db168…2022-10-31 17:46:14 <asciilifeform> 'going ~down~ tech ladder' is a rather hard sell.
3b474e91cb1f62ad…cb1f62ad…2022-11-02 20:25:30 <asciilifeform> ( incl. errybody's childhood 'adlib' & 'soundblaster' )
9323541d0108ffb9…3de22bad…2022-12-08 18:21:47 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017845 << wut
d0b6404688ff0734…88ff0734…2022-12-14 17:02:08 <phf> i'm doing that old school lisp machine development style thing, where "handcranking" is "code you haven't written yet, but strongly aligned with"
b650a6d86c9e2194…6c9e2194…2022-12-28 23:11:57 <signpost> pics are at least bounded items. videos might not be
f2a5d65b2dec3c91…e713386f…2023-02-19 15:52:30 <cgra> none of awt's recent messages showing up in bitdash log are netchained to any of mod6's. perhaps a useful case for study. noticed because can't see any of mod6's messages yet. came online only recently
e955c86dfe4123bc…eab63cb9…2023-01-18 17:52:28 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-17#1020646 << lemme see how far I got on the update.
f12ebd683de0ff72…3de0ff72…2023-01-19 03:01:25 <asciilifeform> as the old sages said, 'like building eiffel tower outta toothpicks'. what currently worx : 'console' prompt in tabbed window; debug log in same; text/cmd entry; 'repl' for commands and knob twiddling...
aa48814829455562…29455562…2023-02-10 22:10:18 <unpx> I think you may be able to list everything by searching for a very common word (e.g. 'a'), I don't recall limiting the results nor paging it, so there you have your list. But this isn't the good list, you can see it as a download dir.
56efcef1079de501…079de501…2022-10-25 18:32:39 <asciilifeform> + a # of 'independent' crackpots purporting to extract a signal from the above.
1f46981f05735f8d…05735f8d…2022-10-25 19:55:15 <awt> "Oh I thought the fed creates money." No it doesn't
579ca0f7b1d23ac5…b1d23ac5…2022-10-28 17:06:19 signpost still gives speeches to the court assembled when speaking here.
af6f0c397476ccc3…19f28fa5…2022-10-31 17:47:45 <phf> "we can have a 8ns multihop to a DC in frederick" "but prey tell mr babage, can i watch comcast sportsball come season?"
8b5f50477476ccc3…7476ccc3…2022-10-31 17:47:49 <asciilifeform> the 'me an' my kalash, i'ma be own army' lulmeme scratches deep psychological itch in some folx, hence popular; 'i'ma be own at&t!' not so much
5a74266c0eefb6fe…df935289…2022-11-08 19:24:16 <asciilifeform> imho that's the interesting thing, that 'it all' never 'gets flushed'
ff599c169323541d…a2d6c83a…2022-12-08 18:22:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 12:31:44 signpost: !!register signpost http://butts.com/key.txt
15e9a76ff2a5d65b…b4582ef6…2023-02-19 16:00:13 <awt> cgra: also interesting that this message was not displayed to my irc client: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023772
8e4ba23de955c86d…a0251d42…2023-01-18 17:53:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-17 19:40:26 phf[awt]: signpost, did you ever release your online codes python version?
3996105df12ebd68…f12ebd68…2023-01-19 03:02:21 <asciilifeform> ... format-checking for various inputs (handles, #s, etc)
a48182beaa488148…f2d8b892…2023-02-10 22:10:53 asciilifeform in all cases where actually needed $paper, found trivially
fbeae4c9aa488148…aa488148…2023-02-10 22:44:46 <unpx> > ~anyffin actually worth reading <<< the only way I found is reading what other people suggest and slowly compile my own list of suggested readings.
d7c1b23e56efcef1…56efcef1…2022-10-25 18:33:06 asciilifeform entirely ignores subj, other than when linked from thel0gz
438d99de1f46981f…1f46981f…2022-10-25 19:55:32 <awt> "Oh I thought the fed controls interest rates." Actually mno.
597f54b0579ca0f7…f5b8395a…2022-10-28 17:06:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014520 << curious to hear moar re subj
318826b8441a7bd4…3b474e91…2022-11-02 20:26:51 <asciilifeform> well yes, 10+y is about how long takes for 'after-hours experiment' -> patent landgrab -> 3$/ea. off-shelf ic
87e77c345a74266c…5a74266c…2022-11-08 19:24:30 <asciilifeform> only indiv. gox, periodically, flushed
a5099b48ff599c16…c13780ef…2022-12-08 18:22:17 <signpost> was seeing that I got the right error message back.
1773f1fd340cb044…340cb044…2022-12-14 17:03:02 <asciilifeform> phf: recall how pestronics started with 'let's see if can lightly patch an old irc relayer'
099e6ff9663057d7…4d98bfdb…2022-12-28 23:14:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 16:18:51 phf[awt]: maybe then that should be an operator choice?
64e4071c8e4ba23d…e955c86d…2023-01-18 17:54:04 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020650 << yep, fine way to spend the worst of times. more of you people ought've shown up.
f2d8b892c0a6cac3…c0a6cac3…2023-02-10 22:10:12 asciilifeform unenthusiastic re 'scihub'-type warez for simple reason that problem is that ~nobody is writing ~anyffin actually worth reading, rather than 'ohnoez, can't find $paper'
2b21bcfaa48182be…be588549…2023-02-10 22:12:15 <phf> asciilifeform, too many papers are hidden behind paywalls. i have scihub on speeddial
eecb3827fbeae4c9…fbeae4c9…2023-02-10 22:46:11 <unpx> There was a time I wanted to create a protocol for this, but the point isn't in the protocol, rather in the network and its primary seeders: readers.
e7f93096438d99de…1e6ae555…2022-10-25 19:56:06 <asciilifeform> reminiscent of erry physics student's 'oh i thought electrical current consists of electrons' moment
7ba5bd67597f54b0…977a761a…2022-10-28 17:07:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 12:04:40 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014513 << this is happening; I've been touring various groups that I think will eventually benefit from pest.
ba71a47b395111ac…af6f0c39…2022-10-31 17:50:50 <phf> fwiw it's the same people who discuss borderline q-anon stuff on facebook, boycot walmart, but shopaholic on amazon, etc.
4afeaa43318826b8…318826b8…2022-11-02 20:27:50 <asciilifeform> approx same interval b/w 'after hours' bell unix & commercial unix ws errywhere
c724b9b287e77c34…0eefb6fe…2022-11-08 19:24:54 <signpost> well, in my mind there's potential for a final zap. but maybe that also, ever imminent, never arrives.
6601950ca5099b48…fb62bf99…2022-12-08 18:22:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017856 << asciilifeform still thinking re possible need for ~3~ chain hashes rather than 2 ( if netchain starts being used for threading ), but imho avoidable , introduced 'inv' ( 5.4.9 in predraft spec ) for chronological g
312715a71773f1fd…ad29a21c…2022-12-14 17:10:24 <billymg> asciilifeform: my guess is it won't pass as is, precisely for that reason (everyone will then know they have no power to enforce). better for them to re-propose it every couple of years to create fud, shake weak hands, corral users into "regulated wallets", and promote some controlled opposition figure as the hero who defe
39eda9f5099e6ff9…663057d7…2022-12-28 23:14:55 <phf> the thinking here is that leaning towards operator choice makes sense, because the network is so wot heavy
f59bb84f8cb39673…15e9a76f…2023-02-19 16:00:26 <awt> Possibly received before my irc client connected to my blatta station.
6917fdd464e4071c…8e4ba23d…2023-01-18 17:55:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 11:17:51 phf[awt|deedbot]: a failed experiment at governance, novel way of structuring of business and social relationships, a way to boldly ride the kali yuga. the person chiefly responsible for setting up and running the experiment proclaimed it a failure and then passed away.
a4db28abeecb3827…d93278f7…2023-02-10 23:04:30 <phf> but then your papers should be in some kind of context? like come with "who recommended" "relevant project" "relevant goal" ,etc.
58b627b2eecb3827…eecb3827…2023-02-11 21:46:53 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-10#1022960 <<< yes, it should, but I cannot find a suitable structure for a catalog because it's either too vague or too rigid.
21d36e85e7f93096…438d99de…2022-10-25 19:57:16 <awt> asciilifeform: I have distinct images in my mind of electrons passing slowly through copper wire.
075b4a2b7ba5bd67…579ca0f7…2022-10-28 17:07:41 <signpost> I want to seed it in the NH "free state" wot when I get up there, for example.
9d12b5c04afeaa43…441a7bd4…2022-11-02 20:28:39 <phf> nah, you're just missing a chunk of history where yamaha was releasing synthesizers first, for researchers (e.g. synclavier) and then for the peoples, e.g. the legendary DX7
61d22271c724b9b2…87e77c34…2022-11-08 19:25:42 <asciilifeform> hypothetical 'final zap' would have to somehow kill the fractional-reserve gox concept as a whole
2136dd3d6601950c…ff599c16…2022-12-08 18:23:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 12:48:37 phf[awt]: i'm trying to understand how multiple parallel netchains are supposed to work…
496bea72312715a7…1773f1fd…2022-12-14 17:05:47 <asciilifeform> billymg: per asciilifeform's pov, worst thing that's happened to bitcoin to date was its 2010s 'legalization' and the 'institutional' 'law-abiding' vermin crawling in and pumping/dumping
e39ec935f59bb84f…f59bb84f…2023-02-19 16:00:58 <awt> Incidentally my station is still fielding getdata requests from mod6.
3f80e16a6917fdd4…64e4071c…2023-01-18 17:55:08 <signpost> still open question whether "party of bitcoin" exists later, and whether 20yrs or 500yrs later.
f9aa2d3bdd0b1d1c…87fe93c7…2023-01-19 03:03:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-05 asciilifeform: raw_avocado: there's an old su joak re subj. 'scientists announce they have discovered a method to make black caviar from petroleum.' 'when can i buy this in the shop?' 'soon; spreading on bread -- already works! but as for eating, not quite yet...'
0b92e43c9caa1023…9caa1023…2023-02-10 22:15:49 <phf> but kind of goes back to many a conversation and threads both in b-a, t and a, of the need for "rebuild civ from first principles" archive
3c459e25a4db28ab…a4db28ab…2023-02-10 23:17:16 <phf> signpost, is book/paper hoard from cause or towards a purpose?
c406463da4db28ab…a48182be…2023-02-11 00:33:54 <asciilifeform> phf, unpx: fwiw all of the papers asciilifeform 'used' , are mirrored on his www, in the format seen in earlier link. imho this is the way to do it.
d37104f458b627b2…07d9b1d1…2023-02-11 21:48:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-10 18:05:41 phf[awt|deedbot]: but then your papers should be in some kind of context? like come with "who recommended" "relevant project" "relevant goal" ,etc.
0f83d4b858b627b2…58b627b2…2023-02-11 21:49:24 <unpx> That is why I am trying to choose a topic first and then collect releated resources while I get a deeper understanding of the topic.
a5f468c29d12b5c0…4afeaa43…2022-11-02 20:29:31 <asciilifeform> likely ( asciilifeform -- not musician, knows subj largely from toy side )
8ce50b5161d22271…c724b9b2…2022-11-08 19:25:58 signpost referring to nuclear exchange, but that also can be mostly theater.
d062b4752136dd3d…6601950c…2022-12-08 18:22:54 <asciilifeform> ... for chronological getting of 'recent' msgs
3f106074496bea72…d0b64046…2022-12-14 17:06:33 <phf> the worst thing that imho happened to bitcoin is the original 16k spike, but it's probably driven by this legalization
e9955647ae4f3469…ae4f3469…2022-12-28 23:16:32 signpost has no problem with there being "inline" items of some reasonable titpic size
14c541713f80e16a…3f80e16a…2023-01-18 17:55:39 <signpost> I don't think "modernity" is at all stable, but the next chunk of the wheel might very well belong to non-europeans, and good for them.
92b061eaf9aa2d3b…81f74a52…2023-01-19 03:23:51 <phf> asciilifeform is too much of a lisper, ends up with greenspun's tenth rule even before gets to "sufficiently complicated" part
fa07c28ec406463d…c406463d…2023-02-11 00:34:29 <asciilifeform> the jpgs naturally aint searchable, but to date this also kept the copyrasty bots out.
a7521df10f83d4b8…0f83d4b8…2023-02-11 21:55:41 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-10#1022961 http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022991 <<< choosing the root, or the foundation set, is bothering me
5ee7cc878d7a835a…effaded4…2022-10-31 17:53:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 11:35:37 asciilifeform[5]: afaik 4chanism can only exist in counterpoint to 'homo' tho -- rather like 'dissidents' evaporated away with sovok
e22fc98ba5f468c2…9d12b5c0…2022-11-02 20:30:35 <phf> dx7 was basically the first digital synthesizer that sold to general population in significant numbers
05694918d062b475…d062b475…2022-12-08 18:23:38 <asciilifeform> if operating per previous specs, is possible to walk netchain & selfchain and still miss a subthread (if such existed) because of where you started walk from
5cb9bb50e9955647…e9955647…2022-12-28 23:16:57 <signpost> and yeah, what I'd allow inline I'd potentially adjust upward for more trusted parties.
56c1603814c54171…fe4123bc…2023-01-18 18:48:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: could 1st ask 'whether exists nao' lol
bdde88fffa07c28e…fa07c28e…2023-02-11 00:34:55 <asciilifeform> (moar often than not, there aint even a searchable copy avail. anywhere, they're scans to start with)
e91cb40fa7521df1…d37104f4…2023-02-11 21:57:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-10 19:35:09 asciilifeform[5]: phf, unpx: fwiw all of the papers asciilifeform 'used' , are mirrored on his www, in the format seen in earlier link. imho this is the way to do it.
dd8d5023a7521df1…a7521df1…2023-02-12 21:08:31 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1023002 <<< Then I guess holistic projects should be dissected correctly, I see
a43192de34346adc…075b4a2b…2022-10-28 17:16:08 <signpost> yep. iirc shinohai has done experiments running jonsykkel's client on android. seems like that oughta mean it can be wrapped in a gui turd on same.
473678065ee7cc87…ba71a47b…2022-10-31 17:54:45 <phf> it's an impolite, in a certain kind of company, question, where was boris strugatsky in the 90s
768c1b8de22fc98b…a5f468c2…2022-11-02 20:31:40 <asciilifeform> dunno, the 6581 circa '82 iirc. but possibly dx7 was 1st piano-shaped standalone ?
de4f11fb20823cb5…20823cb5…2022-11-08 19:26:43 <asciilifeform> trivial 'solution'. was asking re 'they're alive but not using goxes' notion
4d92b08105694918…05694918…2022-12-08 18:25:03 <asciilifeform> ( alternatively, getdata response could return a flag bit, say in formerly 'reserved' field, indicating existence of successor, which one could then fetch via a hypothetical 'getnext')
067bdeb05126e645…3f106074…2022-12-14 17:08:02 <phf> subjectively, i feel like the 16k spike was the reason why tmsr ~really~ went under
ccb2e6955cb9bb50…89be8a11…2022-12-28 23:18:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: problem is that ~anyone~ on a pestnet (of arbitrary depth) can stuff inline up to whatever the max multipart is (per draft 0xfa -- ~18MB)
9f1872f9431cb65f…abc7fb09…2023-02-19 16:26:29 signpost curious whether BTC will crash with the stock market as recession drags on.
bf0afa9156c16038…14c54171…2023-01-18 18:48:56 <signpost> which thing, modernity or party of bitcoin?
4757477a4bb069d7…4bb069d7…2023-01-19 03:30:31 asciilifeform trying to bake sumthing resembling portable rng treatment
3b380ceabdde88ff…3c459e25…2023-02-11 14:26:43 <phf> the essential feature i was aluding to is the fact that barret paper is then referenced from http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2842
7de81912e91cb40f…e91cb40f…2023-02-11 21:57:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 12:20:02 asciilifeform[4]: recalls u. eco's answr to common q 'didja actually read yer 1e5 bookz', 'lolno, wai would i keep'em around if already read'
806a8584dd8d5023…fc98c8fc…2023-02-12 21:09:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 18:33:45 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022994 << a somewhat tradition #t answer is `you're working on X, therefore you have relevant papers/books, therefore you post them on your blog, everything else is masturbation`. i guess this subthread raises a question of `if civ
2335e042d7182b08…5245478a…2022-10-26 15:46:35 <signpost> don't forget to buy some bulletcoin while it's cheap.
ea26328ca43192de…a43192de…2022-10-28 17:16:29 <signpost> not the ideal client, but different people have different problems, and these are gonna need to hoover up normies.
afe55708a43192de…34346adc…2022-10-28 17:16:56 <asciilifeform> for pnojes & similar, need also nat penetrator to actuallywork
83af8f26768c1b8d…e22fc98b…2022-11-02 20:34:02 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah, we're using two different terms :) synthesizer as a chip, and synthesizer as a "thing that a musician can use to make music"
559793f3de4f11fb…8ce50b51…2022-11-08 19:27:33 <signpost> yeah I'm aleady astonished at the modern underclass stomach for insult, so I'm not placing any bets on the other side.
4c8081a74d92b081…9323541d…2022-12-08 18:25:32 <phf> asciilifeform, i'm talking about the case when you have message A and messages B and C that both reference A as netchain. from that point on D is essentially arbitrary (depends on if B or C arrived last, or have later timestamp, whichever)
774e98fe4d92b081…4d92b081…2022-12-08 18:25:36 <asciilifeform> ( naturally a msg could have any # of successors per netchain )
11677035067bdeb0…067bdeb0…2022-12-14 17:10:46 <phf> was the moment when everyone but mp looked at their hodl and realized that it's nowhere near large enough for "to the moon", the time put into tmsr projects suddenly was weighted against substatntial, life changing sums
782b72c9ccb2e695…ccb2e695…2022-12-28 23:18:35 <asciilifeform> ( this, obv., per the 'stuff jpg in chained msgs' scheme )
6a1167fe9f1872f9…9f1872f9…2023-02-19 16:26:37 <signpost> would be nice to see some stonk money flee *into* BTC.
7ee4f75b3b380cea…3b380cea…2023-02-11 14:29:02 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-11#1023047 << i actually sent this last night as part of the conversation that was happening, but it got lost in aether, and only bumped because i sent another message in the morning
848d892d7de81912…7de81912…2023-02-11 23:28:59 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022991 << always a fair point
3deddbbe806a8584…f0caa039…2023-02-12 21:14:00 <phf> unpx, yeah i think `holistic` projects are almost always a lie, and need the most attentive disection. there's a very specific chain of books, aritlces and papers that make up what i know as a programmer, but my programmer hoard when i had one was mostly filled with junk i'll never have time or desire to pursue
2a5c3724afe55708…ea26328c…2022-10-28 17:17:06 <signpost> "WEF wants to keep you from voting in the primaries! check our pest feed for open polling stations!" etc
44ece5cbdd6d8023…47367806…2022-10-31 17:59:59 <phf> or my mom's endless mirth, she went to some bard's concert, and the front row sing along was all standing with ukraine, vote for drumf is a vote for fascism, etc. part of jewish-russian potomac community
1834b163559793f3…de4f11fb…2022-11-08 19:28:36 <asciilifeform> imho the interesting thing is that fract-res. scamola appeals to ~all~ classes -- collective masturbatoria where erryone can imagine he is over9000x richer than factually (for so long as not tries to buy physical goods)
1765b1e311677035…11677035…2022-12-14 17:13:20 <phf> well, at least it was the case for me. the amount of time i put into btcbase and vtools for them to be basically "open source" (i.e. unpaid work for kommunity, that came more with abuse and responsibility, than even kudos)
bbe1acb1782b72c9…39eda9f5…2022-12-28 23:19:25 <phf> but isn't it the same kind of problem as, anyone in pestnet can spam viagra ads, or talk in all caps about random nonsense?
3f4d7133782b72c9…782b72c9…2022-12-28 23:19:38 <asciilifeform> and then, if getdataing to get the history, gotta walk through that 18MB
339c36046a1167fe…6a1167fe…2023-02-19 16:27:33 <signpost> also hilarious that SEC chairman said recently, to quote, "not your keys, not your crypto"
37f9eb807ee4f75b…88757209…2023-02-11 14:28:56 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 09:26:38 phf: signpost, is book/paper hoard from cause or towards a purpose?
f6057504848d892d…7de81912…2023-02-11 23:30:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 12:20:02 asciilifeform[4]: recalls u. eco's answr to common q 'didja actually read yer 1e5 bookz', 'lolno, wai would i keep'em around if already read'
16c16fbe3deddbbe…3e148ceb…2023-02-12 21:16:27 asciilifeform when working on ffa, collected erry even vaguely-pertinent dead tree, warez scan, published lib, etc. he could find -- and found virtually all of it to be worse than useless
d63db863defb962a…defb962a…2022-12-08 18:26:35 <asciilifeform> and yea, currently arbitrary, which is Wrong Thing
1a31d5acbbe1acb1…3f4d7133…2022-12-28 23:20:10 <asciilifeform> phf: entirely similar. except that most folx wouldn't send 18MB of txt spamola, whereas typically people think nuffin of throwing in a 18MB cat
967ca06a339c3604…2e4196a0…2023-02-19 16:27:34 <awt> Very weird recession, anyway. Mostly tech/finance. Of course there isn't really a working class anymore which could lose any jobs.
b149c9d8caad5afc…b5ab2d67…2023-01-18 18:51:58 <signpost> maybe somewhere! godspeed and well wishes to them if so.
d8b919a937f9eb80…7ee4f75b…2023-02-11 14:30:00 <phf> i guess instead of spamming with addresscasts it would've been more useful for stations to periodically emit prods
8647e97cf6057504…848d892d…2023-02-11 23:32:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022994 << a somewhat tradition #t answer is `you're working on X, therefore you have relevant papers/books, therefore you post them on your blog, everything else is masturbation`. i guess this subthread raises a question of `if civ collapses bhBfxLd5P.
eb9e37a316c16fbe…5f8de8c8…2023-02-12 21:16:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-12 asciilifeform: for instance when asciilifeform was writing ffa, found existing bignum libs to be ~worse than useless~ as references.
0c650c691bd8cec7…afe55708…2022-10-28 17:17:29 <asciilifeform> (afaik ~100% of gsm modems sit under nat )
e5cf558bf9958da1…401f04e1…2022-10-31 18:06:20 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014704 << yep. most, but not all, questioners come to socrates expecting that socrates will change.
83308a8c59ebe6b2…59ebe6b2…2022-11-02 20:36:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-02#1015302 << neato. post if you manage to get the gnarly toolchain needed for the sdram built
d636b455d63db863…d63db863…2022-12-08 18:27:10 asciilifeform leaning towards 'need new knob to make threading go properly' but not yet figured out precisely where
ea3b8a11a38188c7…a38188c7…2022-12-14 17:28:07 <asciilifeform> and see also re: a moar fundamental boojum.
915928f31a31d5ac…5cb9bb50…2022-12-28 23:20:21 <signpost> there's no damnatio memoriae currently specified is there?
b99059b1967ca06a…1871f78b…2023-02-19 16:43:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: overbought on pumping dough through sv slaves to california landlords, at any rate
0e359103b149c9d8…caad5afc…2023-01-18 18:53:15 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's pov, a 'bitcoin party', or 'tmsr 2', etc. is just as 'davinci's chopper' as the original
dec8eeddd8b919a9…d8b919a9…2023-02-11 14:32:21 <phf> asciilifeform, is the idea of threading that you can just explicitly say "netchain of this message is this other message that i'm `responding` to"?
a24ef10d8647e97c…8647e97c…2023-02-11 23:32:28 <phf> and i don't have a book on gunsmithing, what do`. that is whether or not that preparing for such an eventuality is a legitimate activity bhBfxLd5P.
8e9f3a318647e97c…f6057504…2023-02-11 23:33:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 16:48:08 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-10#1022960 <<< yes, it should, but I cannot find a suitable structure for a catalog because it's either too vague or too rigid.
aef9edd2eb9e37a3…16c16fbe…2023-02-12 21:17:56 <asciilifeform> 'programmer lit' in particular tends to be laser-focused on idjit ephemera, which is 1 reason wai respectable used b00k shops won't even stock anyffin that looks even vaguely 'programmery'
0652cc690c650c69…1bd8cec7…2022-10-28 17:19:03 <signpost> and for thread completeness, oughta also be straightforward to use jonsykkel's from objc c interop on ios
b99279cb0c650c69…c34719f2…2022-10-28 17:19:27 <shinohai> Both awt's AND jonsykkel's clients run via termux on Android, current station is actually on spare droid phone using blatta lol.
095e716ae5cf558b…5ee7cc87…2022-10-31 18:07:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 13:25:10 asciilifeform[5]: ultimately the participants have to remain aware that bw is 'not rubber' and can't throw GB+ of warez in 'all to all', 'onionism', etc. and expect any kinda useful performance
2a0aa57b83308a8c…2aa46e67…2022-11-02 20:37:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 16:19:18 signpost: subj of FPGAs, my two arrived.
64984eead636b455…4c8081a7…2022-12-08 18:27:25 <phf> which also made me wonder, which message exactly should prod return? the latest one recieved, or whichever the station considers to be the latest one by its own sort order
72b23254d636b455…d636b455…2022-12-08 18:27:27 <asciilifeform> this is why not 'unpredrafted' the predraft spec yet
e98e1c41ea3b8a11…8f67f38e…2022-12-14 17:28:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-17#1066486 << there's imho a quite serious systemic defect in bitcoin (and no, i'm not aware of any possible 'fix') -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifefo
ae9ba1e4915928f3…915928f3…2022-12-28 23:20:36 <signpost> data from some dork would still be there as part of the chain after his unpeering
723b6cdeb99059b1…b99059b1…2023-02-19 16:45:55 <asciilifeform> mod6: are you running an ancient blatta? try recent one
678dd2b30e359103…0e359103…2023-01-18 18:54:04 <asciilifeform> the req'd physical structure aint there, and not clear from where would come.
60f342fddec8eedd…dec8eedd…2023-02-11 14:34:32 <phf> i think you suggested somewhere that you don't do "response" as such, and just add netchain visualization to the client. have you thought about adding an explicit flag for "this is a response" messages?
a9910196a24ef10d…d5812037…2023-02-12 04:21:58 <signpost> so far looks like the exchange rate is one cheap chinese balloon requires several billion dollars of aircraft to not shoot down, but kinda look at it some.
9118122baef9edd2…aef9edd2…2023-02-12 21:18:44 <asciilifeform> (some will even eschew actual 'timeless' worx like dks, dijkstra, etc. if curator not tuned into subj enuff to shelve'em in maffs)
810a83720652cc69…0c650c69…2022-10-28 17:19:27 <asciilifeform> the 1 difficulty for such folx might be how to exchange keys (if they end up e.g. pasting'em into plaintext sms or the like, is worse than nuffin) but otherwise not need 'phd' to set up pestron
9202e524b99279cb…0652cc69…2022-10-28 17:20:05 <signpost> asciilifeform: typically the dork clients do this via scan of QR code
092007082a0aa57b…83308a8c…2022-11-02 20:37:30 asciilifeform not had time to attempt, but expects over9000 dep hell
ceb69f9e64984eea…72b23254…2022-12-08 18:27:41 <asciilifeform> there's possibly a painful breaking change req'd
c31ded45e98e1c41…1765b1e3…2022-12-14 17:30:47 <phf> right, a combination of "early hodls" and the fact that the most effective means of legitimate bitcoin, that is without goxing or similar, is to put excess fiat into it
e78a27faae9ba1e4…ae9ba1e4…2022-12-28 23:20:46 <signpost> if one wanted a fully walkable chain, have to have this
b6d54925723b6cde…723b6cde…2023-02-19 16:51:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023792 << sadly when 'flees', does so typically into papercoin, with ~0 effect on exchrate
d8ee5860678dd2b3…6917fdd4…2023-01-18 18:55:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 16:34:04 asciilifeform[deedbot]: near as asciilifeform can tell, the ~actual btc economy~ (i.e. what remains after subtracting the reich subsidiaries that demand passport etc. when trading anyffin for coin, so can report its 'sale' and the 'gain') is ~weaker~ today than in the days of the infamous pizz
5f8631a560f342fd…60f342fd…2023-02-11 14:37:26 <phf> i recon it's not too hard to make a client be smart about it, even without an explicit "response" flag. if you're within some arbitrary netchain skip limit (5-6 messages), then the client can feel free to show an antecedent message as a "hint"
aae3ec7ba9910196…a9910196…2023-02-12 04:22:26 <signpost> when the chinese fart a thousand of these at us and 50 have an EMP onboard, lights out.
f60b4e626c981c27…6c981c27…2022-10-31 18:08:45 <signpost> there is a machine application of pest that's of interest, but it's entirely compatible with human operators being responsible for the final line of defense against link breakage.
9e78814609200708…83af8f26…2022-11-02 20:37:59 <phf> mos is a PSG "programmable sound generator", which is your classical "introduction to digital signal" sound chip. you have noise, a bunch of waveforms and a bunch of envolopes. at the channel and resolution of hardware at the time you basically can produce that oldschool chiptune sound
102fb59fceb69f9e…ceb69f9e…2022-12-08 18:29:07 <asciilifeform> phf: per intent of current spec, the 1 that the station would use as default netchain if it were to transmit a msg at the time of issuing the prod
5af324f8c31ded45…312715a7…2022-12-14 17:38:12 <billymg> phf: as in, spike to ~$16k at the end of 2017 resulted in "oh shit, this thing's got legs. i should be grinding to stack more coin, not working for free for republic"?
f9e7377fe78a27fa…1a31d5ac…2022-12-28 23:20:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: nope. chain is the archaetypical 'spittoon in 1 strand'
289e2383b6d54925…8cb39673…2023-02-19 16:52:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-19 11:27:51 signpost: would be nice to see some stonk money flee *into* BTC.
3c0f89abd8ee5860…b149c9d8…2023-01-18 18:54:30 signpost recalls that "soviet megastate" is a technological consequence in asciilifeform's view.
b9cb42c35f8631a5…13603ffd…2023-02-11 14:37:35 <signpost> might as well answer though. I put the hoard together because I can’t predict later what I might want to read, and expect to have further impositions of control over to what I have access. hoard gets read, but I have far more than I will likely finish.
c5151892aae3ec7b…aae3ec7b…2023-02-12 04:24:08 <signpost> if anyone hasn't read Unrestricted Warfare yet, highly recommended.
6fe12d86ed9f4f32…ed9f4f32…2023-02-12 21:22:11 <asciilifeform> ... or consider, say, the amt of relevance any 'networks' b00k on yer shelf has to pestronics.
4450ef02f60b4e62…f60b4e62…2022-10-31 18:09:19 signpost wouldn't mind to at least attempt use as a server control plane.
dedc8a2c9e788146…09200708…2022-11-02 20:38:53 <asciilifeform> phf: correct. came with 2dozen registers where had to diddle in realtime to actually play sumthing musiclike
b08f78235af324f8…c31ded45…2022-12-14 17:32:59 <phf> billymg, yeah that's a very concise and proper way of putting it
a4ddcee663322ce7…d8ee5860…2023-01-18 18:55:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-06 17:29:42 phf[awt]: the win of old saloon is that lol where you going to go friend, your ranch and wife are here. i've made this point before, about fundamental failure of tmsr, but there was never closed economy. bb's business doesn't run on asciilifeform's iron, so his disappearance doesn't signify "p
28c8cd23b9cb42c3…b9cb42c3…2023-02-11 14:38:44 <signpost> got plenty of dead tree if they cut the power, and plenty of ammo if they cut further.
3822071ac5151892…c5151892…2023-02-12 04:26:03 <signpost> of particular note, their declared intent to use the american obsession with complicated technology against "us".
bb9923386fe12d86…6fe12d86…2023-02-12 21:22:36 <asciilifeform> ( there's, for instance, 1-2 pgs in e.g. stevens which depicts udp. but beyond that ? )
afe06bac4450ef02…f9958da1…2022-10-31 18:10:14 <asciilifeform> can indeed use if properly p2p'd, and while remembering that the keyz are symmetric
4833814ededc8a2c…9e788146…2022-11-02 20:39:01 <phf> fm synthesis is a significantly large number of those basic elements, combined in a particular way to provide a good enough approximation of real world sounds to make the result appealing to general pop
91516483b08f7823…b08f7823…2022-12-14 17:33:58 <phf> but i'm thinking i wasn't the only one in that boat (judging by the frequency of ascii rants about "day job" and "where the money at", which mostly started around that time)
f9922bd871658dd9…f9e7377f…2022-12-28 23:21:32 <asciilifeform> sorta like trb is stuck storing erry piece o'shit tx 4evah.
c10eeae028c8cd23…5f8631a5…2023-02-11 14:39:23 <phf> so it is towards a purpose? not saying that's bad, just trying to see if hoarding can be framed as anything but
b3f079d228c8cd23…28c8cd23…2023-02-11 14:39:33 <signpost> drives plenty of other experiments in self-sufficiency, like self-hosting openstreetmaps. will post more of these things in time.
a6a0ad1a3822071a…8e53c34c…2023-02-12 04:52:26 <asciilifeform> signpost: sadly (?) the dynamite-powered (vs nuke circulating charged particles in ionosphere kind) emp wunderwaffe is bogus
086fde51bb992338…3deddbbe…2023-02-12 21:29:27 <phf> possibly the communcating and mobile systems: pi calculus by robin milner. i've never gotten around to reading it, but i suspect it might have insight for reasoning about concurrent processes. or like a way to napkin sketch some of behaviors we see in pest, without constantly havin 6EuDžl9(Y'N{L
fcf0a8ff8b207710…200feb59…2022-10-28 17:20:33 <asciilifeform> would need native pnoje port for this tho
418abcbfafe06bac…4450ef02…2022-10-31 18:12:45 signpost can imagine a scenario where folks in wot offer capacity to folks buying same, using phf's notions of an in-pest wot, plus bids/asks and proofs of payment also in pestchain as structured messages.
888caa7c4833814e…dedc8a2c…2022-11-02 20:39:14 <asciilifeform> (could, interestingly, ~read~'em too, and do simple feedback)
fb3317f1dc4b29ff…dc4b29ff…2022-12-08 18:30:27 <phf> you can easily have a case when you have A<B<C A<D<E A<B<X<Y and more because of network congestion, packet loss, etc.
1518d232dc4b29ff…a5099b48…2022-12-08 18:35:39 <signpost> !!rate zx2c4 2 linux kernel dev and wireguard author
6ef6ed5691516483…91516483…2022-12-14 17:34:58 <phf> and i don't think it was tmsr only either. why sell pizza for satoshis just to participate in bitcoin economy, if can go work for goldman sachs and make fat stacks, and then buy btc with that
1c18b601f9922bd8…71658dd9…2022-12-28 23:22:06 <signpost> squinting they're the same problem. you either have ways of gc'ing parts of the log-chain you don't care about, or you stick the parts you may not care about in a side-storage where you same.
612010034a218edf…4a218edf…2023-02-19 17:35:15 <phf> was looking for lisp tcl stuff and found a project by a ru guy https://тхаб.рф/wiki/Яр_(язык_программирования)
bc0a23a5a096110a…a096110a…2023-01-18 18:59:21 <asciilifeform> the only possible afaik pill against the 'lift it from plane and then drop' reich-engineered volatility of btc is if had solid physical economy , and ... circular problem
925f069bc10eeae0…b3f079d2…2023-02-11 14:40:19 <signpost> the purpose/cause distinction gets murky in cases like this involving bets about the future
29366585a6a0ad1a…37f9eb80…2023-02-12 04:52:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-07-17 asciilifeform: most famous actual field use was in gulf war 1 , against baghdad tv station. (repaired 4h later! but no one asked 'how many hrs to repair if instead had used a 100 $ aviabomb, instead of 100,000 $ 'emp' )
69fb37bf086fde51…086fde51…2023-02-12 21:29:27 <phf> g to reinvent the notation. `so you have station A and counterparty B...` 6EuDžl9(Y'N{L
bdcd8076fcf0a8ff…fcf0a8ff…2022-10-28 17:22:49 <asciilifeform> 'ideal pestron' of course not pnoje, but (in fact could be physically similar) portable p2p radio
0cad3289418abcbf…418abcbf…2022-10-31 18:12:51 <signpost> not a complete sketch, just grunting in a direction
86cbfe30888caa7c…888caa7c…2022-11-02 20:39:46 <asciilifeform> right, was no question of 'resemble acoustic instruments' with 6581 (tho coupla people managed to do recognizable human voice, eating 100% of cpu)
a9366262fb3317f1…102fb59f…2022-12-08 18:30:49 <asciilifeform> aha, as asciilifeform understands, already happens regularly
113616031518d232…0108ffb9…2022-12-08 18:35:40 <deedbot> Get your OTP: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=-WlA
554d69d86ef6ed56…6ef6ed56…2022-12-14 17:36:56 <phf> imho that spike basically destroyed "bitcoin economy" overnight, hippies that bought acid of silkroad2 suddenly turned into hodlers
4b13f6801c18b601…f9922bd8…2022-12-28 23:22:30 <asciilifeform> imho the essence of the 'how to lolcat on pest' q can be restated as 'how to send ~optional~ wad of msgs'
59e6b34bbc0a23a5…a4ddcee6…2023-01-18 19:00:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-02 17:44:02 asciilifeform: there's likely a 3) keep up volatility to maximally inhbit honest commerce.
f1579119925f069b…925f069b…2023-02-11 14:41:37 <signpost> but I wouldn’t argue against someone saying “dude that’s just your religion, and you’re carefully describing it in reverse”
95a0cb7e29366585…a6a0ad1a…2023-02-12 04:53:14 <asciilifeform> ( doesn't prevent 1e9$+ worth of boondoggles, to this day, 'vircator' etc )
601c883269fb37bf…bb992338…2023-02-12 23:11:48 asciilifeform read subj, lulzily, in a salt mine. can see how one might describe a pestnet with it, but suspects that very few will want to ~read~ such a description
839b11f8bdcd8076…8b207710…2022-10-28 17:23:05 <signpost> shinohai: yeah works if you're using android like a linux, but afaik using python in an apk would rely upon one of those balls of shit and twine that try to fake a static executible for the scriptlangs. probs want the c as a lib.
de59edb70cad3289…afe06bac…2022-10-31 18:13:00 <asciilifeform> there's no particular reason wai couldn't use a pestron in a 'slave mode' as a replacement for ssh, sans the latter's gnarly '100kloc of ???', null ciphers, etc
3a5917f586cbfe30…86cbfe30…2022-11-02 20:40:08 <asciilifeform> (recall e.g. c64 'mission impossible', 'stay a while, stay forever!' intro)
f9b81181a9366262…fb3317f1…2022-12-08 18:31:23 <phf> and when it lands, and everyone's up to date, there's no authorative way, if it's C E or Y that should be used to netchain
3d0a107c11361603…1518d232…2022-12-08 18:36:07 <signpost> !!v C0B7CB4E3D4C257E6E711D7E374DF8569C512E4B9787DD1A936B3A72491BC488
7377442c554d69d8…5af324f8…2022-12-14 17:51:29 <billymg> i always imagined there was some link between republic and desire/ability to earn coin. as a lurker/outsider i didn't fully understand how but assumed something like step 1) join republic, become lord; step 2) ... ; step 3) profit
7ab32d314b13f680…bbe1acb1…2022-12-28 23:22:32 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019675<<you keep bringing this up as an example, but trb is quintessential `all comers`. why have wot, if you're then not going to rely on itts communal properties?
acfaee8237b57eba…37b57eba…2023-02-19 17:38:28 <phf> e.g. http://plana.mybb.ru/viewforum.php?id=60 Проект "Русскоязычный ассемблер"
9cb63a6759e6b34b…593b07cb…2023-01-18 18:59:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-11 asciilifeform: actual commerce, i.e. the kind where you MAKE things, sell'em, do actual services for people, it is -- punished -- by the volatility
c3561064f1579119…f1579119…2023-02-11 14:45:33 <signpost> one can dig for the cause of anything. Aesop writes the ant and grasshopper because of the looming eschaton, say.
8340942a601c8832…601c8832…2023-02-12 23:13:16 <asciilifeform> generally, the point of a horror show like that is if one insists on trying to prove theorems re the behaviour of $clockwork
2342d52c839b11f8…839b11f8…2022-10-28 17:23:33 <signpost> asciilifeform: btc gains that zero without sandwich also, and I'll help pay for that.
fb219496de59edb7…de59edb7…2022-10-31 18:14:22 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'buy&sell cpu' imho suffers from problem similar to 'let's make own at&t'
c9c6559e3a5917f5…4833814e…2022-11-02 20:40:17 <phf> meanwhile dx7 had its own chip https://www.righto.com/2021/12/yamaha-dx7-chip-reverse-engineering.html
091e940d3d0a107c…11361603…2022-12-08 18:36:07 <deedbot> signpost rated zx2c4 2 << linux kernel dev and wireguard author
efec6b9c7377442c…7377442c…2022-12-14 17:52:14 <billymg> partly because of mp's alleged 100k btc stack, thought "his inner circle must be doing well"
b57bf9487ab32d31…099e6ff9…2022-12-28 23:23:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:22:42 asciilifeform[5]: sorta like trb is stuck storing erry piece o'shit tx 4evah.
6fbbb71c9cb63a67…07daf3f4…2023-01-18 19:05:11 <phf> hodl is an antithesis to tmsr, so that contradiction is builtin into ideology. on one hand "1btc> berkshire hathaway stock in a 1 year" and on the other "let me buy your random number generator for 2.5BTC today"
fc4d1558c3561064…c3561064…2023-02-11 15:25:36 <signpost> one question is whether the object's there already visible to a john of patmos. rest of us catch up later.
bbcc3a9a00627027…00627027…2023-02-12 04:54:32 <signpost> not these that are currently being flown, but later.
5b7b60c58340942a…69fb37bf…2023-02-12 23:14:41 <phf> also things like TLA+, but i can also see how one could use it for informal description of hairy problems, to give a reasoning framework. i recon not all formal logic is there to extract dod money
571a32a82342d52c…2342d52c…2022-10-28 17:24:27 signpost meanwhile working toward putting more btc in his pocket with misc shitworld attempts at biznis 2 not yet worth mentioning.
fb0a76c3fb219496…095e716a…2022-10-31 18:15:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 13:32:48 asciilifeform[6]: the fundamental problem there is that while traditional telecoms, with satellites, oceanic fiber, etc. function -- the notion of competing with'em economically is a laff; but if not function, then 'your customers' over9000x moar interested in 7.62x39 and tinned beef than 'how
13449b7f09745404…f9b81181…2022-12-08 18:32:03 <phf> i think awt said his are sorted by timestamp, but then you're in a no mans land of drifting clocks
3577d934091e940d…f5687ac4…2022-12-08 18:36:16 <asciilifeform> per intent of new spec, netchain oughta be able to point to any previously-existing msg. but this opens q of how to sort (and wat-do with messages where netchain==0)
7f47471defec6b9c…554d69d8…2022-12-14 17:49:36 <phf> billymg, this is a point of dispute, but at least for me the hodl aspect was the least desirable element. the way i remember things is that lords were supposed to be independently wealthy (in coin, dollars or free time), and the goal was to build novel parallel economy first, benefit from it in wordly possessions second.
7828f116b57bf948…1c18b601…2022-12-28 23:22:42 <signpost> of these I'd be inclined to speculate in the direction of not having to pull down every single link of all possible chain walks
9b452f9c69c97d0f…69c97d0f…2023-02-19 17:40:01 <phf> `Среда программирования на "русском" Си' of course everything's on windows, full lul gems
b5f61c7c6fbbb71c…6fbbb71c…2023-01-18 19:05:36 <phf> you don't need volatility for that, i don't actually think it's the volatility that killed tmsr, it's the original 16k to the moon
12495a16fc4d1558…fc4d1558…2023-02-11 15:27:01 signpost been chewing on that book a lot lately, and not because "eee ww3". thing might be the picture of *all* world-collapses, and a map through them.
a5e580e7bbcc3a9a…95a0cb7e…2023-02-12 04:54:41 asciilifeform lives in very 'convenient' locale for that one, not needs to study at all for 'wat do after'
61c3d3ae5b7b60c5…8340942a…2023-02-12 23:15:01 <asciilifeform> well some of it is there to extract nsf moneys, lel
12493883571a32a8…b99279cb…2022-10-28 17:25:32 shinohai built py2.7 from sauces, errything stored on a sd card for portability sake ....
48e964a2fb0a76c3…0cad3289…2022-10-31 18:14:51 <signpost> only if you want to avoid trusting your friends.
816991fbcf8a1368…cf8a1368…2022-11-02 20:42:35 asciilifeform owns a 'roland mt32' (plugged into msdos box) where used anuther 'last gasp before wavetables' period tech, subtractive synthesis
c21e650d13449b7f…09745404…2022-12-08 18:32:45 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's original intent, netchain of $msg was 'what was at the bottom of my screen when i wrote $msg'
0e10c5f73577d934…3577d934…2022-12-08 18:36:57 <asciilifeform> imho pestron oughta simply reject'em, unless in fact its db is empty
5566f5b77f47471d…7f47471d…2022-12-14 17:55:40 <phf> the early catechisms, before hodl, were novel ideas about pgp contracts and corporations, counterparty relationships mediated by strong crypto, novel system of trust. there's a reason it's the most serene republic, the previous serene republics being venice, genoa and lucca
3cf245457828f116…7ab32d31…2022-12-28 23:24:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019677 << bui don't agree with restatement, i'm explicitly arguing that there are binary blobs that are essential parts of log
6e9a94369b452f9c…9b452f9c…2023-02-19 17:40:46 <phf> «Возможность писать код на кириллице с минимальным переключением между раскладками. К сожалению эту проблему победить полностью не получится, так как ч z|
6]OR
QY:
a2ab27d2b5f61c7c…bc0a23a5…2023-01-18 19:06:03 <asciilifeform> 'x->moon' ~was~ the original fatal volatility, imho
0f7a301e61c3d3ae…5b7b60c5…2023-02-12 23:16:19 <phf> when i briefly worked in a .net banking shop, locals would casually draw /proper/ flowcharts to describe behavior. tool is only as suspect as the monkey who uses it
9507098848e964a2…48e964a2…2022-10-31 18:15:22 <signpost> if you and I had a deal for me to run phuctor on a spare box, there's no need for mathematical proof that I will do so.
0cdb4006816991fb…816991fb…2022-11-02 20:44:37 <asciilifeform> phf: interesting link btw; had nfi it had e.g. ripple-carry adder
163876bbc21e650d…13449b7f…2022-12-08 18:32:52 <phf> if e.g. your drift is at the limit of what's acceptable drift is (5 minutes?) it's possible that your message will be chosen for the next netchain, only because your clock is running 5 minutes late
51df76b00e10c5f7…1430d63b…2022-12-08 18:37:10 <phf> yeah, but that's not possible unless you have mechanism to join multiple chains
b33960bb5566f5b7…5566f5b7…2022-12-14 17:58:50 <phf> the idea, again because this is what attracted me to tmsr therefore that is what i saw, was to build infrastructure for the future of business relationships, the way republic of venice is a foundational blueprint for western business world
891455513cf24545…b57bf948…2022-12-28 23:25:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:23:41 asciilifeform[6]: imho the essence of the 'how to lolcat on pest' q can be restated as 'how to send ~optional~ wad of msgs'
d6a3cc4e6e9a9436…6e9a9436…2023-02-19 17:40:46 <phf> асть символов есть только на английской раскладке.» z|
6]OR
QY:
c176778a4275dd1c…bdde88ff…2023-02-11 17:12:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022968 << currently not specified when, precisely, emit prods. oughta be periodic, i.e. some % of what'd otherwise be 'ignores'
3d3cede70f7a301e…0f7a301e…2023-02-12 23:18:13 <phf> there's a certain type of person who can embrace disciplined formalism, without turning it into a beurocracy. i also kind of suspect that such people are the only ones who can be called computer ~engineers~ proper. i'm not unfortunately one of them
83620c4395070988…fb219496…2022-10-31 18:15:26 <asciilifeform> i suppose 'if you've enuff friends, can sell almost anything'
fb3db8c40cdb4006…0cdb4006…2022-11-02 20:45:55 <asciilifeform> also asciilifeform entirely mistakenly assumed that yamaha's fm ics were hybrid digital-analogue, with the sines produced via voltage-controlled oscillators
1ad0fb21163876bb…c21e650d…2022-12-08 18:33:26 <asciilifeform> ideally should never be necessary to use timestamps for sort
a86d7cec51df76b0…0e10c5f7…2022-12-08 18:37:13 <asciilifeform> (a new talker oughta sit still long enuff to receive even 1 msg)
87febf70b33960bb…efec6b9c…2022-12-14 18:08:54 <billymg> that was my main appeal too, a parallel economy and wot being stood up so to be ready for the inevitable fiat world collapse
2b2c648d89145551…4b13f680…2022-12-28 23:24:36 <asciilifeform> phf: i'm inclined to agree, i.e. 'let's have jpgs in chain, but Use Moderately' but plagued by suspicion that even very light use of it will be very painfully heavy for even a small pestnet with well-behaved inhabitants
630488a4d6a3cc4e…d6a3cc4e…2023-02-19 17:41:30 <phf> «Нужна ли руссификация чисел? В Си при записи чисел используются также и буквы латинского алфавита.»
0035b6256936eb06…3c0f89ab…2023-01-18 19:07:27 signpost suspects not making the block reward decay continuous was a design mistake
0e7d180dc176778a…c176778a…2023-02-11 17:12:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022969 << correct.
f6238430c176778a…68192aaf…2023-02-11 17:13:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 09:31:18 phf[jonsykkel]: i guess instead of spamming with addresscasts it would've been more useful for stations to periodically emit prods
a60b5a433d3cede7…61c3d3ae…2023-02-12 23:18:38 asciilifeform has nuffin against attempts to prove $property re $algo, but believes that this is best done once algo seems superficially perfect in empirical practice, and 'all that remains' is to look for subtle constructible breakage
64081cef83620c43…83620c43…2022-10-31 18:15:40 <asciilifeform> but how many who willing to pay 5$ where lulazon wants 5cent
5e50b214fb3db8c4…fb3db8c4…2022-11-02 20:46:05 <asciilifeform> apparently -- not, had table in rom etc
51a1ea561ad0fb21…1ad0fb21…2022-12-08 18:33:39 <asciilifeform> (given as indeed they aint reliably ordered)
f1f5874ea86d7cec…a86d7cec…2022-12-08 18:37:40 <asciilifeform> phf: they oughta be joined at the roots
4451e75b87febf70…87febf70…2022-12-14 18:09:59 <billymg> and it appeared to me that there was a moat being built around this tmsr economy, and i didn't want to be on the wrong side of it
05b2c2902b2c648d…784d6502…2022-12-28 23:24:54 <signpost> not a bad thing to have this problem and then do something smarter.
ac6a53850035b625…b5f61c7c…2023-01-18 19:08:50 <phf> volatility is standard deviation, you can factor it into your decision making, which is roughly how we did it originally. it's 1k today 1.5k tomorrow, 1k the day after, you just factor the trade loss into your decision making
cf8652910e7d180d…f6238430…2023-02-11 17:14:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 09:33:31 phf[awt|deedbot]: asciilifeform, is the idea of threading that you can just explicitly say "netchain of this message is this other message that i'm `responding` to"?
f2993c3da279d9bf…be12f3ae…2023-02-12 04:57:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1023002 << asciilifeform for 1 has difficulty picturing a scenario where the b00kz help. may be failure of imagination tho
f3f6dbeba60b5a43…a60b5a43…2023-02-12 23:19:55 asciilifeform took approach closer to what phf described in ffa, but a) took aeons b) not even nao convinced that fully covered it
6eea4f2951a1ea56…163876bb…2022-12-08 18:33:46 <phf> asciilifeform, sure, in which case you're using arrival time, which is even more arbitrary
45be92b9f1f5874e…f1f5874e…2022-12-08 18:38:14 <asciilifeform> i.e. ought not be possible to have wholly disjoint subchains
ae9c99154451e75b…ea3b8a11…2022-12-14 18:06:09 <asciilifeform> from asciilifeform's pov, the 'lift' was a source of frustration strictly : 'dun matter worth a shit whatcha do, even if you invent antigrav, still will make for pale shadow of 'was there when exch rate was 1$' '
a34bc0ec05b2c290…3cf24545…2022-12-28 23:25:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019684 << that's a fair point. just how expensive is this Use Moderately end up in practice
7daadb0ac0003c7a…c0003c7a…2023-02-19 17:48:22 asciilifeform recalls ancient b00kz with cyrillicised pascal examples
19237228ac6a5385…ac6a5385…2023-01-18 19:09:38 <phf> to the moon is the idea that outside of volatility the fx rate of bitcoin will generally go up in relation to all other currencies
cd9dabdccf865291…0e7d180d…2023-02-11 17:13:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022970 << iirc brought this up previously; concluded that not need explicit flag
50bb212ff2993c3d…f5e2f5d7…2023-02-12 04:58:08 signpost also, but has a demented definition of good evening!
4d1634b2f2993c3d…8e9f3a31…2023-02-12 04:59:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 18:33:45 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022994 << a somewhat tradition #t answer is `you're working on X, therefore you have relevant papers/books, therefore you post them on your blog, everything else is masturbation`. i guess this subthread raises a question of `if civ
25866ff66eea4f29…51a1ea56…2022-12-08 18:34:03 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform included timestamp orig. strictly as anti-replay booby
974aa249ae9c9915…b33960bb…2022-12-14 18:06:31 <phf> i also don't think that bitcoin is that interesting without tmsr and it's outright boring as a hodl
4e111d38a34bc0ec…89145551…2022-12-28 23:26:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:25:46 asciilifeform[6]: phf: i'm inclined to agree, i.e. 'let's have jpgs in chain, but Use Moderately' but plagued by suspicion that even very light use of it will be very painfully heavy for even a small pestnet with well-behaved inhabitants
65076ed47daadb0a…7daadb0a…2023-02-19 17:50:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023808 << sumbody get this fella an ancien regime keyboard with r/l key !111
0cdb596819237228…19237228…2023-01-18 19:11:29 <phf> the volatility over longer periods of time is probably connected to "drop it from plane" or millions of other factors, which is yet another level of complexity
6b4b51f8cd9dabdc…cf865291…2023-02-11 17:14:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 09:35:42 phf[awt|deedbot]: i think you suggested somewhere that you don't do "response" as such, and just add netchain visualization to the client. have you thought about adding an explicit flag for "this is a response" messages?
1430d63b25866ff6…6eea4f29…2022-12-08 18:34:04 <phf> i'm still talking about the case of A<B<C A<D<E A<B<X<Y
9b2a38cc57e7f97f…57e7f97f…2022-12-08 18:38:55 <phf> so just to clarify < in my diagram is "packet's netchain property", of which there's only one
4c77236d57e7f97f…45be92b9…2022-12-08 18:39:02 <asciilifeform> if A <- B <- C, and e.g. B <- P, B <- Q, you have subtrees joined at roots, and all is well
e06527b4974aa249…ae9c9915…2022-12-14 18:07:15 <asciilifeform> approx as interesting as e.g. ftp (today, rather than in golden age of w4r3z ftps)
ab0f5c824e111d38…2b2c648d…2022-12-28 23:25:59 <asciilifeform> atm blatta db on asciilifeform's station weights ~10MB (and that's with sqlite overhead.) nao picture that it weighs coupla GB. and erry new station has to fetch it 1 getdata at a time.
d7a77a744e111d38…05b2c290…2022-12-28 23:26:01 <signpost> once I shit down pentacle vpatches I'll take up a few gigs of everyone's chain just with that.
2fba584b65076ed4…289e2383…2023-02-19 17:52:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-19 12:42:01 phf[awt|deedbot]: «Возможность писать код на кириллице с минимальным переключением между раскладками. К сожалению эту проблему победить полностью не получится, так
80c3e1940cdb5968…6936eb06…2023-01-18 19:11:34 <asciilifeform> phf: on short term behaves 'like rng', sure -- but how 'factor in' e.g the drop from ~60 to ~20 ? imho mp's answer to this kinda q, roughly 'erry biz oughta also contain a hedge fund internally' is a 'let'em eat cake'
7d111ea46b4b51f8…cd9dabdc…2023-02-11 17:16:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-11#1022964 << asciilifeform certainly keeps warez hoard (the proverbial 'over9000 scans no one read'(tm)) and will certainly add it to pest fileshare when we've the latter, but raw hoards aint imho particularly useful as such
3f851e206453f46e…a279d9bf…2023-02-12 05:01:40 <phf> smh when the subject of `collapse hoard` comes up i imagine stephen fry's library of forbidden gay literature from v for vendetta, except with, like, rracist looney tunes cartoons
7d92dec29b2a38cc…4c77236d…2022-12-08 18:39:20 <asciilifeform> roots being the linkages of the 'top-level' chain, there
28b95dd7e06527b4…e06527b4…2022-12-14 18:10:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018338 << from asciilifeform's pov, 'stack coin' was rather tedious proposition, in that 'could spend 100% of salary for yrs, and still not make appreciable + in even modest stack', again as result of the 'lift'
d908c044ab0f5c82…d7a77a74…2022-12-28 23:26:45 <signpost> asciilifeform: rapid chain sync is something the fountain code can help with. I just haven't proposed pulling it into that layer yet because too soon.
0d2204e02fba584b…65076ed4…2023-02-19 17:52:59 asciilifeform has a yellowing '80s b00k re forth, by one of these 'delatinizers', lulzy
ac9e0bd480c3e194…0cdb5968…2023-01-18 19:12:20 <phf> asciilifeform, 60 to 20 was not a factor when tmsr was around, is entirely a novel devlopment
07d9b1d17d111ea4…6b4b51f8…2023-02-11 17:17:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 09:29:25 phf[awt|deedbot]: signpost, is book/paper hoard from cause or towards a purpose?
acffd6743f851e20…50bb212f…2023-02-12 05:04:10 <signpost> "gather round kids, and we'll hear the tale of the time dr seuss cartooned a problematic asian"
6918831a025fdb2a…025fdb2a…2022-10-31 18:17:53 <asciilifeform> it aint even that 'no one can compete with $megacorp', but that 'i'ma sell xyz to phriends' biz model has obv weaknesses, as illustrated in history of #t
bc3a1be77d92dec2…9b2a38cc…2022-12-08 18:39:26 <phf> ah, i get it, you're walking from the opposite direction
0ff868367d92dec2…7d92dec2…2022-12-08 18:39:39 <asciilifeform> i.e. you can walk from P and Q back to B, then to A
4158db7028b95dd7…f1772eff…2022-12-14 18:11:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:33:39 billymg: phf: as in, spike to ~$16k at the end of 2017 resulted in "oh shit, this thing's got legs. i should be grinding to stack more coin, not working for free for republic"?
281535f6d908c044…ab0f5c82…2022-12-28 23:27:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: they're chained tho, you can't get'em in parallel
2b4f600c0d2204e0…0d2204e0…2023-02-19 17:56:58 asciilifeform wonders whether ru medicinal prescriptions are still written in bastardized latin. last knew -- they were
ec8824a9ac9e0bd4…80c3e194…2023-01-18 19:13:00 <asciilifeform> iirc there were swings of similar scale on a # of occasions
ddde882507d9b1d1…7d111ea4…2023-02-11 17:16:58 <asciilifeform> it's something one 'mines' a) serendipitously, in spare time b) when actually investigating sumthing
0cf7284e6918831a…6918831a…2022-10-31 18:18:27 <asciilifeform> at some pt one needs over9000x moar phriends, or over9000x richer ones, or to try to peddle $FG to randos somehow
f434bb074158db70…974aa249…2022-12-14 18:11:20 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018349 << but _tmsr_ economy never existed, was kind of like state of the art rocket, that didn't even fell on launch, was just continously being worked on
3a504e392b4f600c…f2a5d65b…2023-02-19 19:43:20 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-17#1020639 << asciilifeform, to go back to this, there's one angle to consider: if command was hashed, it would eliminate a problem class of command ambiguity. if hashed, fiddling with command would require sending an entirely different message, which is then handled as a cross-ref malfo
8e53c34cddde8825…ddde8825…2023-02-11 17:18:38 asciilifeform recalls u. eco's answr to common q 'didja actually read yer 1e5 bookz', 'lolno, wai would i keep'em around if already read'
175a03ec0cf7284e…dede7400…2022-10-31 18:18:52 <signpost> re onion, I was curious whether there's such thing as cryptographic commutivity and it sounds like at least one barrier is "how do you know when you've performed a step in the operation correctly?"
1e259ddcf434bb07…4158db70…2022-12-14 18:12:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 13:05:19 billymg: and it appeared to me that there was a moat being built around this tmsr economy, and i didn't want to be on the wrong side of it
f6c613f7e6eea7fa…e6eea7fa…2022-12-28 23:27:29 <asciilifeform> need msg N to get hash of msg N-1 to getdata
8b2946a73a504e39…3a504e39…2023-02-19 19:43:20 <cgra> rm, broadcast chain pointing to direct, or vice versa. case of malform required to handle anyway. OTOH, currently is dedicated handling needed for case when different peers send different command for same message
d1f8cec23a504e39…2fba584b…2023-02-19 19:44:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-17 06:29:52 cgra[jonsykkel]: ...or more like, a peer can send us anything anyway, cmd hashing won't help
b84aaff3bf5ed7f3…0035b625…2023-01-18 19:13:23 <signpost> there's a giant swing of about the same percentage every halving to date.
0fe7021b1e259ddc…28b95dd7…2022-12-14 18:11:39 asciilifeform did some 'stack' but purely as side effect of the piz crackpottery and mp's 'i wanna buy anuther bmw' episodes
92fce614f6c613f7…a34bc0ec…2022-12-28 23:27:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019689 << vpatches should not be inline, but an attachment. we're discussing two different mechanisms of attaching content to log. inline and an info packet with hash.
a93d6c2c8b2946a7…2b4f600c…2023-02-19 19:47:57 <asciilifeform> cgra: can you think of a hypothetical 'demented peer mutates command' that wouldn't already result in insta-discard ?
b20a7655b84aaff3…b84aaff3…2023-01-18 19:13:34 <signpost> which is why I suggested that the stair-stepped decay of block reward may be a flaw.
d58120373f8a0110…3f8a0110…2023-02-11 17:20:40 <signpost> amateur librarianship is better than netflix and rotgut
67e6f65af99bf8ae…f99bf8ae…2022-10-31 18:19:18 <signpost> and yep, I don't have grand designs on an in-pest consumer market warpath
0ca3b83cf99bf8ae…0cf7284e…2022-10-31 18:19:20 <asciilifeform> signpost: there is, but only w/ rsa-style number-theoretic schemes
05fa72b692fce614…d908c044…2022-12-28 23:27:56 <signpost> one approach there is a command that gives me a list of hashes back at various offsets in your chain.
d831d4f892fce614…4e111d38…2022-12-28 23:29:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:27:14 signpost: once I shit down pentacle vpatches I'll take up a few gigs of everyone's chain just with that.
c742f2f9a93d6c2c…a93d6c2c…2023-02-19 19:49:42 <asciilifeform> i suppose could switch a broadcast to direct, and the peer to whom you send this will see mysteriously-unfindable antecedents
a7261685b20a7655…bf5ed7f3…2023-01-18 19:13:42 <asciilifeform> the other boojum is that the hedging he recommended requires maintaining fiatola reserves, which precludes 'pure btc biz' right off the bat
fa8f09a072f97b12…72f97b12…2022-12-14 18:12:31 <asciilifeform> 'let's build mars rocket, at some pt surely someone will come up with some fuel'
ab29bdc2d831d4f8…05fa72b6…2022-12-28 23:28:06 <signpost> so that I can retrieve from all those points in parallel.
0a3296b2c742f2f9…c742f2f9…2023-02-19 19:49:52 <asciilifeform> this'll only piss off yer 1 peer to whom you do this
11085c77a7261685…b20a7655…2023-01-18 19:13:56 <signpost> sudden choke of supply would yes, trigger a run-away speculative bubble
97f7b136a7261685…a7261685…2023-01-18 19:13:56 <asciilifeform> and brings in the very reich dependency a 'btc biz' enthusiast is aiming to escape from
6179126f4af000c9…67e6f65a…2022-10-31 18:19:31 <signpost> statecraft is an art project; one'd always be better off doing anything else
7ebfd3fdfa8f09a0…f434bb07…2022-12-14 18:14:06 <phf> well, the fuel part is i guess the ambiguous and disputed part, and it's step 2 in billymg's "tmsr earning coin plan"
0f68f388ab29bdc2…ab29bdc2…2022-12-28 23:28:31 <signpost> phf: you're overusing should which doesn't convey how you get there.
02c0adc7ab29bdc2…f6c613f7…2022-12-28 23:28:44 <asciilifeform> signpost: see sect. 5.4.8 ('inv') in draft
7a9ab9610a3296b2…0a3296b2…2023-02-19 19:50:29 <asciilifeform> ( and it'll only even get processed if he hasn't seen the net broadcast with that hash yet, lol )
59b8a79811085c77…97f7b136…2023-01-18 19:17:41 <asciilifeform> signpost: wouldn't surprise asciilifeform if turns out that the 'halving vs exchrate' patter no longer holds anymoar, nao that 'no actual btc harmed in the making of this film'(tm) gox-powered arse-mouth-system 'economy' prevails
d5e2991eaf88643e…31a82afc…2022-12-08 18:41:08 <phf> and with getdata there's no way to for example get all the possible packets, in the diagram above there's no way to get from e.g. C to P or Q
6d6902847ebfd3fd…7ebfd3fd…2022-12-14 18:15:34 <phf> mp's final opinion, once everyone was removed, was that the entirety of tmsr was useless, and therefore not funding it was the smart thing to do
b058fbae0f68f388…02c0adc7…2022-12-28 23:28:59 <asciilifeform> ( but is rather half-baked, only gives 13 hashes max )
593c29457a9ab961…7a9ab961…2023-02-19 19:51:23 <asciilifeform> in general, a broadcast msg with 'fiddled' command will only even be noticed by those who not received the original yet.
820b68ace3b28a3b…e3b28a3b…2022-10-31 18:19:58 <signpost> like "there's some offset between this key and that, and you don't know the offset" ?
283f587d6d690284…fa8f09a0…2022-12-14 18:15:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018343 << afaik the only folx in that period who took in ~palpable~ coin were 1) mp, from operating pyramid 2) handful of folx who played in same
f073a3a9593c2945…8b2946a7…2023-02-19 19:52:59 <cgra> handling algo = if in doubt, assume command which suits chain values best?
0523badf593c2945…593c2945…2023-02-19 19:53:03 <asciilifeform> (if already received original -- its hash will be in the filter)
f094f5d6f71f91dc…f71f91dc…2023-01-18 19:18:08 <asciilifeform> i.e. not obv. that the limited supply of actual-btc is any longer relevant to exchrate
a00c720cb8fbdf56…b8fbdf56…2022-12-08 18:41:44 <asciilifeform> the trouble is, presently a n00b can't retrieve 'world' if all he's got is a coupla recent msg
6dcea63b283f587d…1e259ddc…2022-12-14 18:16:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:46:48 billymg: i always imagined there was some link between republic and desire/ability to earn coin. as a lurker/outsider i didn't fully understand how but assumed something like step 1) join republic, become lord; step 2) ... ; step 3) profit
38581e58f073a3a9…0523badf…2023-02-19 19:54:16 <asciilifeform> cgra: under what circumstances would 'in doubt' ?
898293856dcea63b…283f587d…2022-12-14 18:17:02 <asciilifeform> for the most part, mp not spent his coin, but rather 'paid' people with the jingle of his purse, like hajja nasreddin
6fd88826584c6dec…92fce614…2022-12-28 23:30:36 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019698 << what's the core of the discussion we were having with ascii, which starts roughly here http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019618. a `should` in this case is aligned with the substance of the conversation.
29549ae138581e58…38581e58…2023-02-19 19:55:41 <asciilifeform> if yer peer is sending you directs which contain broadcast antecedents, you'll be 'seeing red' and can ask him 'wtf, buggy client? plz fix'
867692b6346d03ae…346d03ae…2022-10-31 18:22:48 <asciilifeform> simply used exponentiation with large seekrit prime as the function E
2499aba7640faaba…a00c720c…2022-12-08 18:42:13 <asciilifeform> seems to be no way to escape adding 'forward walks' , if want to fix this
12249fbb89829385…6d690284…2022-12-14 18:18:30 <phf> i'm not personally privy to that, mostly because i guess never wanted to be paid in coin jingle, didn't take on any "once it's running the money will come" projects
f4a49bd36fd88826…d831d4f8…2022-12-28 23:32:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 18:29:46 signpost: phf: you're overusing should which doesn't convey how you get there.
d5afd53429549ae1…29549ae1…2023-02-19 19:55:58 <asciilifeform> ditto if peer is regularly emitting broadcasts with unfindable antecedents
503feeb11494cf8c…ac9e0bd4…2023-01-18 19:19:30 <phf> asciilifeform, i think your analysis makes it into some kind of impartial, intelligent reflection on pros and cons. my point is that in reality, and through the lifetime of tmsr, when it was "cheap", there was a lot of talk about "one day, like kings". but when it genuinely went "t XE4=L/ʸ] ȼ=oЎO
232473b22499aba7…640faaba…2022-12-08 18:42:14 <phf> the other problem is that we a packet loss, it's possible to get to a state where some packets were lost and nobody knows
28f1a09912249fbb…12249fbb…2022-12-14 18:19:54 <phf> although one of the projects in retrospect might've been profitable, it was supposed to be a kind of btc onlyfans
91e67ae612249fbb…89829385…2022-12-14 18:19:56 asciilifeform took on, tho not from any strong notion that 'money will come'
69e44f55f4a49bd3…f4a49bd3…2022-12-28 23:32:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 16:19:25 phf[awt]: because 3gb iso is self-evidently an attachment, but a graph that's driving a conversation is self-evidently part of log. you're either optimizing for size of log, or for arbitrary holes
dfa9c25ad5afd534…d5afd534…2023-02-19 19:56:48 <asciilifeform> both possible directions of this misbehaviour will result in folx 'seeing red' and can ask 'wtf', if not received satisfactory answr -- unpeer.
48ccd493503feeb1…503feeb1…2023-01-18 19:19:30 <phf> o the moon", everyone had to evaluate their relationship to the medium. XE4=L/ʸ] ȼ=oЎO
27d605dfee9e2257…ee9e2257…2022-10-31 18:23:16 <asciilifeform> i.e. variant of rsa where both exponents -- seekrit
bfb0c91769e44f55…584c6dec…2022-12-28 23:31:06 <signpost> so one rapid sync mechanism would be to select a given message identified by hash, and establish a fountain code block generation scope of "preceding 10000 messages from HASH" and have however many peers spray these at the recipient
b89b865e69e44f55…8ba5ef11…2022-12-28 23:36:11 asciilifeform abstractly agrees 'oughta be able to throw a jpg diagram in the broadcast chat' but would like to find a cheaper way of doing it than stuffing however many MB into chain, and throwing'em in the flood , if at all possible
bd7e3f41dfa9c25a…dfa9c25a…2023-02-19 19:57:23 <asciilifeform> in neither case does it break anyffin, or allow a net inhabitant to gum up traffic, afaik
4b83cac648ccd493…1494cf8c…2023-01-18 19:20:47 asciilifeform cannot speak for anyone else, but not personally remembers any particular 'hmm, gotta reevaluate the medium' moment
383d0b9a48ccd493…ac4a09ac…2023-01-18 19:22:59 <asciilifeform> the breaking moment for asciilifeform in re mp in particular was when he demanded that asciilifeform sign on a 5-figure usd monthly liability (mega-isp) with no corresponding guarantee of what to cover it with
c2abc4b9485988b2…2499aba7…2022-12-08 18:42:41 <asciilifeform> correct, tho unlikely if erryone were regularly prodding
62ff2fc8c3b16e11…91e67ae6…2022-12-14 18:21:02 <asciilifeform> there were some # of projs where 'we have 1 customer' (i.e. mp) 'and here's anuther' (also mp, different glove) but no 3rd
8ba5ef11bfb0c917…a82f514b…2022-12-28 23:32:12 <asciilifeform> ( permitting a 'forward' variant of getdata is tricky, because nao you have tree of potentially unbounded branchness, rather than linear sequence in walk )
2d56b2cbb89b865e…6c30ae94…2022-12-28 23:37:01 <signpost> phf: please attempt at least a few other head-voicings of the text before getting galled.
8730853eb89b865e…b89b865e…2022-12-28 23:37:16 <asciilifeform> ... but at same time allowing the jpg to behave ~as if~ were parked in the chain, i.e. anyone who can spare the disk stores a copy by default
01eda560bd7e3f41…bd7e3f41…2023-02-19 20:00:34 <asciilifeform> the 1 headache asciilifeform can presently think of , is that a joker could take a broadcast, mutate cmd to direct, and 'poison' peers who haven't received the original yet. so possibly oughta store cmd in the filter next to hash, and a match req's both.
40ef48c44b83cac6…20f5ab88…2023-01-18 19:21:40 signpost 100% said to himself "I better jam as much fiat as I can into this thing" at a point.
3e8b8d76383d0b9a…b6115308…2023-01-18 19:23:16 <phf> yes, but when bitcoin small, it was a kind of side hustle "maybe one day will make big business", but when bitcoin got big, you started having all kinds of problems with the fact that mp wasn't paying you. maybe the timing was just a coincidence, but *I* remember when that switch happened.
3fe161a6383d0b9a…383d0b9a…2023-01-18 19:23:19 <asciilifeform> i.e. 'go and find bicycle cash dealers' lol
c47fa019ba5bf965…fb0a76c3…2022-10-31 18:24:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 12:22:09 asciilifeform[4]: there aint a block cipher where can e.g. decrypt(key1, encrypt(key2, encrypt(key1, payload))).
54f04e7a62ff2fc8…62ff2fc8…2022-12-14 18:21:54 <asciilifeform> elementarily, a room fulla paupers + 1 moneybag aint 'an economy'
dfcd12cb8ba5ef11…bfb0c917…2022-12-28 23:32:17 <signpost> phf: if it were self-evident whether non-text ought to be represented as log-chain blocks or as some second representation the thread would've resolved already, lol
f2caa2bd8730853e…2d56b2cb…2022-12-28 23:37:18 <signpost> what's "obviously inline" needs a definition. the thread here has been going in circles around that.
c09cb0a501eda560…01eda560…2023-02-19 20:02:38 <asciilifeform> aand you'd only need to look at it when processing a direct.
a17c24c940ef48c4…40ef48c4…2023-01-18 19:21:48 <signpost> and getting that fiat had fuck-all to do with tmsr
216048f340ef48c4…4b83cac6…2023-01-18 19:21:49 <asciilifeform> from asciilifeform's pov, was a 'loox like the 'moon' exhausted, and per reasonable logic will never suffice to turn a 2figure btc supply into 'not work again''
36f9d8503e8b8d76…3fe161a6…2023-01-18 19:24:23 <asciilifeform> (again for asciilifeform strictly) 'switch' was when went from simply 'not paying' to 'demanding shaheed'
e7a5cbbbc47fa019…ba5bf965…2022-10-31 18:24:45 <asciilifeform> 'somehow' (nsasomehow) diffie-hellman became 'Official standard' instead, tho does ~same thing
4c284f7c8eb7395e…c2abc4b9…2022-12-08 18:43:11 <asciilifeform> (and observe that there is no way to reduce chance of 'lost but no one knows' to 0, even in principle)
ed3545b154f04e7a…c3b16e11…2022-12-14 18:22:02 <phf> but for example how much coin did diana actually saw? i had an exchange with her my last days, on her channel, the logs for which i believe are lost, since she seemed to have perged the logs from her blog.
92f9d951dfcd12cb…6fd88826…2022-12-28 23:34:50 <phf> you're missing the point and being irreverant about it, which usually ends with me getting progressively madder and you getting progressively more irreverant. therefore i will excuse myself
e798c583f2caa2bd…f2caa2bd…2022-12-28 23:39:23 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-28#1019618 << video can also be "driving the conversation"
647f9e77c09cb0a5…c09cb0a5…2023-02-19 20:03:20 <asciilifeform> and can safely unpeer anybody found doing it.
b6115308216048f3…48ccd493…2023-01-18 19:21:51 <phf> asciilifeform, well, then it's a reflection on your own self-reflection. i remember that moment as you switching from "i'm a genius clockwork maker" to "i need to pay bills"
8d1a8b6f36f9d850…36f9d850…2023-01-18 19:24:34 <asciilifeform> 'not paying' could've carried on to this day, hypothetically
be7f147de7a5cbbb…e7a5cbbb…2022-10-31 18:27:10 <asciilifeform> (in either case, objective is for 2 parties to agree on a random bitstring w/out sending it over the wire where snoop sees it)
09607b4a4c284f7c…8eb7395e…2022-12-08 18:43:36 <phf> e.g. "everyone" sees A<B<C, one station has A<Q, but Q is lost, then B lands, no that one station sent out a packet that nobody knows about
9601a4b6ed3545b1…54f04e7a…2022-12-14 18:22:30 <asciilifeform> but rather moar resembled those 19th c. british bridges where suited gentlemen threw copper coins into the mud below the bridge to watch the 'mudlarks' (hobos) dive for'em
be96a837e798c583…e798c583…2022-12-28 23:39:32 <signpost> can't cleave the two apart by this definition
ba44ad94e798c583…69e44f55…2022-12-28 23:40:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 16:19:25 phf[awt]: because 3gb iso is self-evidently an attachment, but a graph that's driving a conversation is self-evidently part of log. you're either optimizing for size of log, or for arbitrary holes
8d23edb2647f9e77…647f9e77…2023-02-19 20:04:40 <asciilifeform> ( ftr , pest philosophy is that peers could misbehave in arbitrary ways, but the only necessary thing is that it must be made obvious to station operator ~which peer~ is doing so )
ac4a09acb6115308…216048f3…2023-01-18 19:22:09 <asciilifeform> phf: 'needed bills' all along, continously, tho
be65812a8d1a8b6f…8d1a8b6f…2023-01-18 19:24:52 <asciilifeform> ( it aint as if anyone paying asciilifeform to e.g. pestron etc nao )
8ff5f691be7f147d…44ece5cb…2022-10-31 18:27:27 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014742 << i've ranted about this before, but i don't think that's a deep enough conclusion. problem is not "sell to phriends" problem is that everyone is the subject of globohomo first, and a friend second. related is that fact that "talk to my accountant over gpg and pay him in btc"
0c1cbe9209607b4a…4c284f7c…2022-12-08 18:44:10 <asciilifeform> well if you sent out a packet but yer cable was unplugged, the next time you send it will have selfchain pointing to the lost packet, and folx will getdata for it
adc568969601a4b6…ed3545b1…2022-12-14 18:22:46 <phf> and to her abstract "one ought to answer why tmsr in their heart first" i answered with "well, you're actually being paid large sums of coins". she was not pleased :>
4926452fbe96a837…8730853e…2022-12-28 23:39:53 <asciilifeform> imho phf is correct in re 'nuffin stops participants of text-only pestnet from throwing in 18MB of text'. but atm this'd be a serious public defecation into a shared sofa and would prolly lead to unpeering. but 18MB of cat , would want to use routinely
94a946508d23edb2…8d23edb2…2023-02-19 20:06:07 <asciilifeform> e.g. nuffin prevents a peer from spamming a GB of liquishit to his net. but it'll happen precisely once, and then he finds himself w/out any peers )
6717562fbe65812a…be65812a…2023-01-18 19:25:59 <asciilifeform> what phf may've been thinking of, tho, is a ~2016 episode where asciilifeform was b/w employments, and wrote to mp, who replied just as you'd likely expect, 'fuckoff, live off sunlight'
f22a17b78ff5f691…c47fa019…2022-10-31 18:28:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 14:18:50 asciilifeform[5]: it aint even that 'no one can compete with $megacorp', but that 'i'ma sell xyz to phriends' biz model has obv weaknesses, as illustrated in history of #t
317ddae60c1cbe92…0c1cbe92…2022-12-08 18:44:17 <asciilifeform> (next time you send with a working cable)
fe20d5acadc56896…9601a4b6…2022-12-14 18:23:09 <asciilifeform> phf: if one believes the s.mg communiques (still up on mp's fossilized www) can count that coin
1e665b6e4926452f…be96a837…2022-12-28 23:40:13 <signpost> which is why I brought up wot-tronics, which can, or at least provides useful input to decide.
8b52be6794a94650…f073a3a9…2023-02-19 20:30:46 cgra 's brain on a (permanent?) slow gear, i gotta give it some time, asciilifeform
f28703615542587e…ab773a38…2022-10-31 18:32:37 <asciilifeform> amish, hassids, etc. and over9000x folx observed already, they did not need any kinda electronics, new or old, they work rather differently
78a4dee9317ddae6…317ddae6…2022-12-08 18:44:34 <asciilifeform> so eventually the lost packet gets 'unlost'
5f946ad1fe20d5ac…fe20d5ac…2022-12-14 18:24:08 <asciilifeform> phf: prior to s.mg, 'mpoe.pr' (hanbot) also had salary in coin, was also in statements on mp's www
2b3b68a31e665b6e…1e665b6e…2022-12-28 23:41:17 signpost is disinclined to introduce a second-representation for anything. would be nice if the core data structure can express bolth.
2f5ea52ec072391d…6717562f…2023-01-18 19:26:23 <asciilifeform> 'real man(tm) not needs employment' etc
0693d55cf2870361…f2870361…2022-10-31 18:32:57 <asciilifeform> and civilian can't 'install hassid firmware'
9cb879edff1a7b11…5542587e…2022-10-31 18:29:41 <phf> mp didn't really /need/ tmsr for anything, so his btc went to whoring, restaurants, travel, etc. which is not a bitcoin economic activity, but rather exchanging gold for local shells and bottlecaps
a0aa91455f946ad1…5f946ad1…2022-12-14 18:24:36 <asciilifeform> these 2 were afaik the only known 'unprincipled exceptions' he made re 'dun pay people a wage'
f8fabdc02b3b68a3…4926452f…2022-12-28 23:41:28 <asciilifeform> signpost: right, except that the only possible wot cut you can make re a broadcast msg is to not accept a hearsay at all in given case
0a16db830da7b4cf…967ca06a…2023-02-19 23:31:33 <awt> 9969 sig EXPERIMENTAL not-to-spec AC spam reduction patch
cda4607c2f5ea52e…c072391d…2023-01-18 19:26:39 <phf> because i'm not privy to your personal conversations, talking exclusively about the discussions in log
d03ada850693d55c…0693d55c…2022-10-31 18:34:22 asciilifeform recalls #a thrd re subj, not came to any substantially diff conclusion than above
880bd2079cb879ed…ff1a7b11…2022-10-31 18:29:47 <asciilifeform> not that 'subject of reich' can't occasionally fork over bit of paper dough or btc to buy magick goodies phriend baked in basement. but the notion that 'get rich from this' is 'larp' and good, quick way to lose shirt
1dc21ad2a0aa9145…adc56896…2022-12-14 18:24:51 <phf> i guess one has to go through the backlog of s.mg? reason why i brought up diana is because in her recent blog post where she reflects on loss, she make it seem like the 60btc or whatever which is s.mg budget holding whatever, of which 30btc is diana's (i might have the numbers exa ޭ.Z\(d4 g?M({Vˢ
86a018110a16db83…6ffcb398…2023-02-20 13:09:20 <PeterL> Hello. I suppose I have not checked in for a while. awt, what is the latest stable version of Blatta?
275ee8a6cda4607c…2f5ea52e…2023-01-18 19:26:55 <asciilifeform> right, but iirc asciilifeform described these in log
bdfe1cfad03ada85…79d81908…2022-10-31 18:34:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-14 asciilifeform: recommends his strategy -- of conducting biz in btc strictly to fill a hodl -- to others, but not under illusion that it is generally applicable
4d089392880bd207…49afb316…2022-10-31 18:30:09 <signpost> yup, and even if globohomo falls, still a larp to think one'd be in a freer position in those circumstances.
a9aee774ca8bc817…ca8bc817…2022-12-08 18:46:25 <asciilifeform> phf: did asciilifeform read the notation correctly, i.e. lost packet Q netchain-points to A ?
4b43c4521dc21ad2…1dc21ad2…2022-12-14 18:24:51 <phf> ctly wrong, but the point stands), are lost. ޭ.Z\(d4 g?M({Vˢ
899dbce8497a6ca0…497a6ca0…2022-12-28 23:42:29 <asciilifeform> ( and, note, they're still eating yer bw even if you don't print or rebroadcast'em )
e71c689986a01811…0a16db83…2023-02-20 14:14:33 <awt> Hey PeterL. Can you try 9969 - the problem with 9970 is that it sends an excessive amount of address cast messages. I've been running 9969 for about a day without any issues.
d82032de275ee8a6…275ee8a6…2023-01-18 19:27:07 <asciilifeform> but above is reasonably complete summary.
73850d8d4d089392…9cb879ed…2022-10-31 18:30:10 <phf> right, effectivelly it's the buying of pizza with btc
8e1e39b14b43c452…4b43c452…2022-12-14 18:25:29 <phf> so i guess there was salary, but then there was also company shares
9a9db1264b43c452…4451e75b…2022-12-14 18:35:32 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018351 << i agree that a btc with warren's 'kyc trb nodes' makes no sense (it's just a reich checking account with extra steps), but assuming this never comes to pass then i still view it as interesting. just as torrents still continue to work and i continue to use them
8ffdd184899dbce8…899dbce8…2022-12-28 23:45:24 <asciilifeform> btw (and iirc phf noted this , in the early days, even before pest per se , when discussed 'gossip') : you can have a walkable chain XOR folx dropping hearsays selectively
46045068d82032de…cda4607c…2023-01-18 19:27:40 <phf> yeah, but i mean discussions in log as they were happening, not during the later grievances sessions
c13ee6181dc48fd1…d03ada85…2022-10-31 18:35:34 <asciilifeform> notion -- 'pizza' aint necessarily useless
1153357e73850d8d…4d089392…2022-10-31 18:31:44 <signpost> for my part, what's interesting is what keeps one able to have unmediated conversations.
0d9a5f5f8e1e39b1…a0aa9145…2022-12-14 18:25:51 asciilifeform knows for certain only re s.nsa piggy, which was operated in precisely this style, i.e. all keys strictly in mp's pocket
8fa886f89a9db126…6dcea63b…2022-12-14 18:30:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 13:07:39 phf[awt]: i also don't think that bitcoin is that interesting without tmsr and it's outright boring as a hodl
3a801b808ffdd184…8ffdd184…2022-12-28 23:45:55 <asciilifeform> ( you can killfile, or 'gag', given speaker, but if you ignore a hearsay that 1 or more of yer peers did not ignore, your netchains will diverge)
a8abdc54c13ee618…c13ee618…2022-10-31 18:36:07 <asciilifeform> today pizza, tomorrow -- smuggled deutschmarks a la 1990, or whatever equiv.
ab773a381153357e…880bd207…2022-10-31 18:31:51 <asciilifeform> it is even possible to sustain baking the pizzas and feast erry week. but not 'i'ma be fulltime baker'
f8fb959169fe34e7…69fe34e7…2022-12-08 18:47:04 <asciilifeform> sender of Q sends anuther packet, at some later time, R. selfchain of R points to Q.
68d633200d9a5f5f…8e1e39b1…2022-12-14 18:26:30 <phf> right, you also have insight into it? i guess the s.nsa budget of whatever it was 10s of btc was never actually ever moved?
a79a47b03a801b80…2b3b68a3…2022-12-28 23:46:17 <signpost> well, I might upset phf by agreeing with him, given I'm somehow irreverently, deliberately ignoring his arguments, but I don't know whether one wants to mechanically prevent all possible friend misbehaviors.
74b43dd00a60fd53…0a60fd53…2023-01-18 19:29:07 <asciilifeform> at any rate, asciilifeform carried on as long as he did largely on acct of the fact that not actually expected 'get rich off collaboration with mp'. did most of what he did the way folx used to volunteer to print propaganda brochures on mimeographs etc
e4f697d2ab773a38…73850d8d…2022-10-31 18:31:53 <phf> that's why when i came back was ranting a lot about the amish, not necessarily as a society to emulate (can't amish without halibarton defending you from the chinee), but as an illustration of a working example of bootstrepped ecoonimic machine
89e036cff8fb9591…68e1cd31…2022-12-08 18:47:09 <phf> you have a chain A<B<C that's going on and is shared, but you have one station that recieved A and got congested. at this point it can send out any number of packets, that get lost, THEN recieve outstanding B and C. now C is the latest in the netchain, on account of being last to a \@7TA]B,'W/
.6:
fa7c9b5368d63320…0d9a5f5f…2022-12-14 18:27:16 <asciilifeform> iirc ~20 coin were used up ( for hosting, and coupla times to reimburse asciilifeform when bought parts for protos )
6c68ee9ea79a47b0…a79a47b0…2022-12-28 23:46:42 <signpost> solution might be in the direction of "be able to clean couch, replace couch, shove friend out airlock"
ddb93ae644682166…86a01811…2023-02-20 14:47:55 <PeterL> sure, I'll see if I can set it up later today
d287cbee74b43dd0…74b43dd0…2023-01-18 19:29:39 <asciilifeform> carried on even past the point where became clear that the various implied promises of 'krysha' from mp were hot air
ffe8ac6013b6e670…13b6e670…2022-10-31 18:38:45 <asciilifeform> ( if phf's q was 'wai bother with computer', however, there aint necessarily good answer. 'why digging with spoon?' 'there's no spade in this cell' )
2971930589e036cf…89e036cf…2022-12-08 18:47:09 <phf> rrive/having higher timestamp. so the station is going to use C to netchain \@7TA]B,'W/
.6:
49a14b046c68ee9e…3a801b80…2022-12-28 23:46:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: can't seem to locate the ancient thread atm sadly
cc949dc1d287cbee…d287cbee…2023-01-18 19:30:22 <asciilifeform> and all the way to the point where was asked to go and lose last shirt 'for the motherland'. then, ran outta 'suspension of disbelief'
7f18d14bffe8ac60…f22a17b7…2022-10-31 18:39:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-24 12:26:33 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-22#1011269 << asciilifeform not blind to the fact that ~errything he does is either a chore or a 'displacement'. for all the good this realization does, lol
c10b91f229719305…75bb1170…2022-12-08 18:47:58 <asciilifeform> phf: correct re netchain, per current scheme
37346fdf29719305…c10b91f2…2022-12-08 18:49:39 <asciilifeform> but assuming sender of Q at some time sends R, Q will get retrieved by those who see R. problem however is that it will be retrieved ~only~ by those who see R (or a successor of R)
204bb091580e6af2…68d63320…2022-12-14 18:28:21 <phf> i guess it was mp stake in coin to your stake in sweat equity. but since mp was managing coing and doing reimbersement, in order to move any of your company's alleged coin you had to come to him
4135fc7249a14b04…49a14b04…2022-12-28 23:47:25 <asciilifeform> iirc there was a similar 1 ~2y ago where punkman briefly returned and made same observation (was skeptical of whole concept of chained msgs for this reason)
8b3c2422cc949dc1…a17c24c9…2023-01-18 19:30:40 <signpost> yeah, the exercise in what little there can be found of ideological motivation against communism was surprising to me also.
8fb3e4197f18d14b…ffe8ac60…2022-10-31 18:41:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014769 << if understood phf's observation, 'yer still mediated by at&t lol'. but imho 'hey we dug 15 metres with spoon, let's dig 15 moar'
cdb0c98437346fdf…29719305…2022-12-08 18:50:07 <phf> right, the way this is recovered is because you have selfchain
a0ab46a7204bb091…580e6af2…2022-12-14 18:28:52 asciilifeform thought it was rather strange where , in the episode where mp asked asciilifeform to extract & liquidate forkcoin from mp's hodl, and asciilifeform requested that same process carried out for snsa piggy, d00d refused
e15499994135fc72…92f9d951…2022-12-28 23:47:26 <phf> signpost, the thread between me and asciilifeform was about two methods of attachment, where one, on a side channel, is obviously required, and second, an inline one, is potentially good to have. the question was resolved to `yes, that second one is good to have, but the cost, even ĥ12CP|#avP[8[H
d4d3ca665fb3812f…cb4db5de…2023-02-20 15:13:48 <awt> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KLWh << "Exchanges would also need to set a strict limit for each customer’s exposure, depending partly on their financial situation, the regulator said." << http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-17#1023522
dc0648a38b3c2422…8b3c2422…2023-01-18 19:31:01 <signpost> points to something profoundly broken about men.
d5e532078fb3e419…7f18d14b…2022-10-31 18:42:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 14:32:40 signpost: for my part, what's interesting is what keeps one able to have unmediated conversations.
85722f9fe1549999…e1549999…2022-12-28 23:47:26 <phf> with a community policy might be too high`. the operator in the scenario we were discussing has to decide `am i going to inline this file or am i going to make it an attachment`. the policy of which way that decision goes, that is implicitly forming out of discussion is `an image ĥ12CP|#avP[8[H
6099b050d4d3ca66…d1f8cec2…2023-02-20 15:15:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:32:12 signpost: I wager they'll just make BTC an "accredited investor" thing
f407dcbd63e08e87…46045068…2023-01-18 19:31:01 <phf> it's possible of course that i'm entirely projecting my own feelings on others, which i do often, but i usually correlate it to external confirmations. like if we were all sitting in a cabin in alaska, and the temperature were to drop to -30c, and i started thinking "man, why the f RKп
`ި6 iMBgFذt
ab1e857fd5e53207…1dc48fd1…2022-10-31 18:41:17 <phf> nah, the why was more like "building frontier economics" vs "hodl". in my mind hodl was always a bonus, particularly since i've never had enough of fuck you btc. i thought that mpex, gpg contracts, pseudonymity of nick<>rsa prime, was it.
49ecbd7f4147bb9c…a0ab46a7…2022-12-14 18:29:48 <asciilifeform> phf: correct, afaik all of his ops were conducted this way. didn't even seem peculiar at the time, 'naturally he won't put it where sumbody could walk off with it'
e509a21185722f9f…85722f9f…2022-12-28 23:47:26 <phf> or a short video of significantly small size that you want everyone to see now and in perpetuity so as to drive the conversation forward` ĥ12CP|#avP[8[H
96815621f407dcbd…f407dcbd…2023-01-18 19:31:01 <phf> uck did i come on this journey" and somebody else said "why did you leave your fucking backpack at the door", i would *more likely to correctly then not* assume that the person is primarily affected by cold, same way as i am. many years later recollecting the events i would say "ma RKп
`ި6 iMBgFذt
48042df1ab1e857f…ab1e857f…2022-10-31 18:42:44 <phf> which is the amish, hassid, etc. part of the whole operation
3d0894c5ab1e857f…0ea964ab…2022-10-31 18:45:13 <asciilifeform> aficionados normally studiously ignore amish et al, because 'tech' which requires you to be born as sumbody else to 'use' it aint all that interesting
b91094f8ec85d595…cdb0c984…2022-12-08 18:51:34 <phf> of course in the case of "got sepsis, going to hospital", the selfchain might not continue for weeks, so nobody will get those messages until much later "i'm baaack!" :p
d98b1eb9e509a211…6c68ee9e…2022-12-28 23:52:07 <signpost> yes, and I said it's also worth considering that a side-mechanism implies a missing element of the original design.
5298fd0396815621…96815621…2023-01-18 19:31:01 <phf> n, that cold sure was brutal" and the person in question went "oh, it didn't affect me at all" i won't have any explicit line of deffense, but i just won't buy it RKп
`ި6 iMBgFذt
0ea964ab48042df1…8fb3e419…2022-10-31 18:44:00 <asciilifeform> was always the '???' in the 'xyz, ???, Profit!!!' of tmsr (and earlier lulmemes, the 'randroids'' 'galt paradise' etc, recall where the heroes abscond to some seekrit hideout and buy cigars from 1 anuther w/ gold coins)
c55979053d0894c5…48042df1…2022-10-31 18:45:35 <phf> is a man not a entitle to the fruits of his labour!
242a577fb91094f8…ec85d595…2022-12-08 18:51:55 <asciilifeform> not if erryone has working periodic prod
1255a7360caa4a4d…49ecbd7f…2022-12-14 18:31:40 <asciilifeform> fwiw the hodl ref'd above (where at the end he said 'of course i've moar, but let's stop here, is enuff') summed to ~3k.
93d2ec0ec2ce9b54…c2ce9b54…2022-12-28 23:49:46 <asciilifeform> hmm phf's msgs reordered on billymg's logotron but in correct order on asciilifeform's desk, go figure
4f618dbfd98b1eb9…d98b1eb9…2022-12-28 23:52:35 <signpost> such that for example there are things in this tree of knowledge that one doesn't necessarily immediately broadcast all-to-all
f51a1464242a577f…242a577f…2022-12-08 18:52:15 <asciilifeform> (then -- peers of sender notice that his selfchain points to sumthing they haven't got, and they getdata for it)
e2f294811255a736…1255a736…2022-12-14 18:32:19 <asciilifeform> already asciilifeform started to suspect alcohol problem, in the end he had a fit re the small commission (mutually agreed!) asciilifeform was charging.
1fc649d593d2ec0e…e509a211…2022-12-28 23:51:08 <phf> also correct on nosuchlabs. the mysteries of netchain reassembly!
0bb241014f618dbf…93d2ec0e…2022-12-28 23:53:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: from 1 pov, there's an obvious missing element (forward links) but its implementation sadly physically impossible
85a0626b48804dd4…48804dd4…2023-02-20 15:18:57 <awt> Looking forward to having a way to preserve pastes
6847cc6b783ef937…dc0648a3…2023-01-18 19:33:23 <signpost> asciilifeform: I took you ex-sovbros as travelers which had the best eyes to see the current reich falling into the same marxism with different clothes.
2f33658488796d60…88796d60…2022-10-31 18:46:25 <asciilifeform> afaik attempts to 'amish' by folx ~not~ part of 'ethno' diaspora -- historically not went far.
68b206429e3a0667…9e3a0667…2022-12-08 18:52:15 <phf> you're still missing the specifics of this example
3abfe38df51a1464…68b20642…2022-12-08 18:52:27 <phf> oh right, right prod also sends selfchain. right
c40cb7010bb24101…0bb24101…2022-12-28 23:54:10 <asciilifeform> ( even if you had a time machine, lol )
3f82156d2f336584…1153357e…2022-10-31 18:46:48 <signpost> little bit of "how ams amish" going on here, imho worthwhile to appleseed it to them.
4535f2e31758b055…1758b055…2022-12-14 18:33:02 <asciilifeform> d00d chronically had genuine trouble remembering what he had agreed to mere week prior.
a4fe93e6c40cb701…c40cb701…2022-12-28 23:54:29 <asciilifeform> two strings can't contain hashes of 1 anuther (unless yer hash algo is a joke, and even then not easy)
15b6e94cb85f0cbc…b85f0cbc…2023-02-20 15:20:08 signpost hasn't flushed the toilet on the paster in a while, but had a bot post-loop on the thing before
7755023885d24287…5298fd03…2023-01-18 19:33:45 <phf> oh i found the previous thread, http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018331 ,and billymg's succinct summation http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018338
a335418c1bee8ad7…c8c1be24…2023-01-18 19:35:15 <signpost> in either case, best critique doesn't often come from inside the culture being critiqued.
137eafb91bee8ad7…ff371954…2023-01-21 12:26:09 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021337 << phf, which font is that? appears more to my taste vs my current placeholder font (Georgia, which has uneven number heights)
0a915ca33f82156d…d5e53207…2022-10-31 18:47:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 13:08:43 signpost: I want to seed it in the NH "free state" wot when I get up there, for example.
734d2bd3cb18acd2…cb18acd2…2022-12-08 18:53:18 <asciilifeform> prod, per current (and prev.) spec, sends 1) selfchain (broadcast) 2) netchain (broadcast) 3) selfchain (with $peer directmsgs)
26662a794535f2e3…4535f2e3…2022-12-14 18:34:03 asciilifeform started out trying to show him how to do this chore w/ own hands, but he even answrd 'wai not you do it, make a commission'
42334c1aa4fe93e6…4f618dbf…2022-12-28 23:54:47 <signpost> one solution to forward reference is being able to issue a gensym which I can later bind to a concrete value.
83d50a3c15b6e94c…85a0626b…2023-02-20 15:20:41 <awt> signpost: I built an archiver. But looking forward to "articles" within pest.
e0dee35077550238…59e6b34b…2023-01-18 19:35:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:09:22 phf[awt]: subjectively, i feel like the 16k spike was the reason why tmsr ~really~ went under
6577fc88a335418c…a335418c…2023-01-18 19:36:02 <signpost> point being those who do think we're succumbing to marxism give no shits to prevent.
75026e78137eafb9…3ee60944…2023-01-21 12:27:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 19:48:58 phf[deedbot|awt]: crtdaydreams, it was a joke at some point, and then it stuck. right before i switched to this ungodly combo it looked like this http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png
7e903f480a915ca3…2f336584…2022-10-31 18:47:28 <asciilifeform> signpost: last asciilifeform heard, there was plan where 'over9000 folx move to nh and elect fuhrer'. what happened to this ?
3fb71756734d2bd3…734d2bd3…2022-12-08 18:54:02 <asciilifeform> so handles 'sepsis' for so long as the operator's station did not also get sepsis at same time
0496aef326662a79…0caa4a4d…2022-12-14 18:34:08 <phf> see i thought when you said in the past "paid with coin jingle" you meant it figuratively in a sense that s.nsa pay outs were meager, less than in any case than the demands of the lifestyle you're accustomed to, but there just weren't any to begin with
9c5ad065e0dee350…e0dee350…2023-01-18 19:35:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:33:39 billymg: phf: as in, spike to ~$16k at the end of 2017 resulted in "oh shit, this thing's got legs. i should be grinding to stack more coin, not working for free for republic"?
cda558b76577fc88…1bee8ad7…2023-01-18 19:36:56 <asciilifeform> marx et al, lulzily, 'had last laugh', i.e. correctly described process where capitalists run outta cheap coolies & 'free' natural resources from subjugated lands and begin retooling to formally centralized reich / satrapies / de-facto command economy, as in ancient times
4141ecb43fb71756…3fb71756…2022-12-08 18:54:24 <asciilifeform> 'prod' presently is what we have instead of synchronicity/acks
86249c3d0496aef3…26662a79…2022-12-14 18:34:35 <asciilifeform> phf: not 100% 'with jingle', d00d was entirely willing to occasionally do 'barrelhead' transaction
e63e146cc937abfb…a4fe93e6…2022-12-28 23:56:15 <asciilifeform> signpost: that's the 'here's a http://localhost:13337/pest/asciilifeform/cat.jpg ' solution, neh
7f1fa594e40c2f2f…e40c2f2f…2023-02-20 15:21:16 <signpost> [The agency (SEC) is expected to pick it up again in April (2022) with a request for public comment on changing the definition of accredited investors who can participate in privately held, “unregistered” share offerings of at least $10 million, according to the agency’s fall 2021 regulatory agenda.][https://archive.
79d8c7d59c5ad065…783ef937…2023-01-18 19:34:25 <asciilifeform> signpost: if it weren't obv., asciilifeform not subscriber to the popular 'usa succumbed to marxists' cosmography
0dfe10d89c5ad065…cda558b7…2023-01-18 19:38:45 <asciilifeform> in that sense, yes, reich 'succumbed to marx' in the same sense e.g. the titanic 'succumbed to archimedes'
1388642a3b9f8811…7e903f48…2022-10-31 18:48:05 asciilifeform recalls from ~20y ago... seems like oughta've been enuff time
d335c0c34141ecb4…3abfe38d…2022-12-08 18:55:19 <phf> i guess you could have some kind of getdata, that asks for all the packets that are being referenced by X, e.g. in A<B<C B<P B<Q can say "getdatax B" and get C P and Q. but that violates your whole "no amplification"
11b3e98c4141ecb4…4141ecb4…2022-12-08 18:55:20 <asciilifeform> selfchain is intended to be contiguous, per operator -- if you get 1 msg from $operator, can get all prev. msgs from him
6e08eb80e63e146c…e63e146c…2022-12-28 23:56:36 <asciilifeform> ( or whatever moar compact variant of same )
6a7b77f40dfe10d8…0dfe10d8…2023-01-18 19:39:18 <asciilifeform> (or where poised to 'succumb to malthus')
a66a34bc6d22eb74…0f5d34f2…2023-01-21 15:09:41 <awt> http://share.alethepedia.com/blatta/9970-split.vpatch << 9970: patch that splits messages with newlines into multiple messages.
4d34d3ce1388642a…3b9f8811…2022-10-31 18:48:14 <signpost> but plenty of "hurr cops can't take my weed" among them in terms of bargain bin philosophy
46df455e6e08eb80…6e08eb80…2022-12-28 23:57:13 <asciilifeform> hypothetically, if asciilifeform is in yer l1, you end up with a complete .../you/asciilifeform/*
bb9e1bba6a7b77f4…6a7b77f4…2023-01-18 19:43:20 asciilifeform asciilifeform's pov -- 'physiocrat'-flavoured, i.e. 'politics is downstream of facts of physical economy'
729ddc14a66a34bc…a66a34bc…2023-01-21 16:40:30 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013828 << word on the street (i can't find any confirmation anywhere, but i haven't looked hard) is that knuth uses metapost, on account of it being basically metafont, but with some extra graph features
c768f9bfe091c2cc…df764865…2022-12-14 18:35:18 <asciilifeform> but this was for barrelhead trades, rather than 'sweat for snsa'
d86e557b46df455e…46df455e…2022-12-28 23:57:25 <asciilifeform> and can offer it up to others in yer l1, who can.. recurse
3e50ec4487050214…87050214…2023-02-20 15:21:43 <signpost> [https://archive.is/WceUS][The agency (SEC) is expected to pick it up again in April (2022) with a request for public comment on changing the definition of accredited investors who can participate in privately held, “unregistered” share offerings of at least $10 million, according to the agency’s fall 2021 regulatory
b6360bd0bb9e1bba…6577fc88…2023-01-18 19:45:01 <signpost> yeah that's hard to argue against. I'm poorly defining what I gave the "marxist" label anyway.
e2ba5986729ddc14…75026e78…2023-01-21 16:41:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-04 16:30:05 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-04#1013802 << unsurprising, but raises the q re outta what he bakes the very clean graphs etc (raw tex shat outta a pascal proggy?! or wat)
53b5b3a4c9483c96…4d34d3ce…2022-10-31 18:49:29 <signpost> still struggling to unseat democrats let alone seat anarchists, yes.
186e71a0c768f9bf…a1d1b1c2…2022-12-14 18:35:37 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018327 << just about every other bill also started with language to skewer self-custody, removed in amendment process, fwiw.
77684ca3d86e557b…d86e557b…2022-12-28 23:57:51 <asciilifeform> this was asciilifeform's orig. picture of 'pestronic hosting'
ee72cf9cb6360bd0…b6360bd0…2023-01-18 19:45:08 <signpost> postmodern nihilist critique of tradition if you like
13e63e6fe2ba5986…729ddc14…2023-01-21 16:43:56 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021439 << i'm pretty sure it's one of the computer modern variations in ttf, from https://cm-unicode.sourceforge.io
52b3e31f53b5b3a4…c9483c96…2022-10-31 18:49:56 <asciilifeform> imho reminiscent of 'pirate party' ( remember these? )
c8b9c351542fa0f7…2136dd3d…2022-12-08 18:57:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 13:26:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: ( alternatively, getdata response could return a flag bit, say in formerly 'reserved' field, indicating existence of successor, which one could then fetch via a hypothetical 'getnext')
0b866f1a186e71a0…8fa886f8…2022-12-14 18:36:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:05:48 billymg: asciilifeform: my guess is it won't pass as is, precisely for that reason (everyone will then know they have no power to enforce). better for them to re-propose it every couple of years to create fud, shake weak hands, corral users into "regulated wallets", and promote some controlled
d9e19b9277684ca3…77684ca3…2022-12-28 23:58:18 <asciilifeform> i.e. bury http and dns in favour of ^ , notionally
c51b28ed41cc3230…41cc3230…2023-02-20 15:22:28 <signpost> well, too long and snipped anyway. but this change combined with the results of current SEC cases against shitcoins at least amounts to a normie ban on shitcoins.
e69ca63cee72cf9c…ee72cf9c…2023-01-18 19:45:52 <signpost> and yeah, this thing might just be fungus, and the fact of the matter's the environment's flooded with homone disruptors, all resources on earth already sat upon by megastates, etc
3a40605d13e63e6f…e2ba5986…2023-01-21 16:45:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 07:27:22 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021337 << phf, which font is that? appears more to my taste vs my current placeholder font (Georgia, which has uneven number heights)
3a20f9caa95337be…a95337be…2023-09-01 19:16:38 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030217 << trying to bring busybot back online, patience as I change main station over to akris.
9b16152752b3e31f…c5597905…2022-10-31 18:50:34 <phf> asciilifeform, imho once you start diging that particular hole, discover that you can't really amish without shared priors. i've been to amish service a handful of times, and every individual amish that i know is there. not like "mark is out this sunday, but there's samuel". mark is there, and so is samuel, and so is amos,
92e19e7ac8b9c351…d335c0c3…2022-12-08 18:56:03 <phf> well, selfchain doesn't have any of these problems, on account of being objectively linear
d4dd08aad9e19b92…c937abfb…2022-12-28 23:58:20 <signpost> a proposed overarching representation would allow me to define side walks of the log and point to their various heads from main chain.
3890444ac51b28ed…c51b28ed…2023-02-20 15:22:50 <signpost> dunno if they made the $10M limit change yet.
c3884765e69ca63c…bb9e1bba…2023-01-18 19:46:27 <asciilifeform> let's consider the popular meme tho, which as asciilifeform understands, goes roughly 'once there were titans, building sr-71 with slide rules, then blue-haired 'woke' came & they drank to death'
0ed3b0ac3a40605d…e613b135…2023-01-21 19:09:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021418 << asciilifeform suspects that '~erryone was covered' is an ( appealing , yes ) historical fiction, rather than solid phakt
342e9f113a20f9ca…2d8bf7c1…2023-09-01 19:20:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 09:57:26 billymg: ticker bot is the mission critical bot for me
025d6bb9d4dd08aa…d4dd08aa…2022-12-28 23:58:31 <signpost> then we don't end up nipple twisting about what's obviously inline.
765dde923890444a…3890444a…2023-02-20 15:23:58 <signpost> gensler's a weird guy, don't know what to make of him yet.
3a253a2ec3884765…e69ca63c…2023-01-18 19:46:30 <signpost> at any rate, going back to the original point, it was a conclusive experimental result to see that very few in practice gave a shit about the traditional revivalism of mp
2e071bb00ed3b0ac…79c480c3…2023-01-21 19:09:40 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-03-01 asciilifeform: and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot
6d2369db0ed3b0ac…3a40605d…2023-01-21 19:10:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 22:12:20 phf[awt|deedbot]: now, the trick with "replace god with X" is to find a similar kind of coverage, because the more people are uncovered the worse your overal situation is
848e5d47a52acec5…a52acec5…2022-12-08 18:58:53 <asciilifeform> the correct way to 'walk fwd' would prolly be a cmd which returns # of 'inv' payloads req'd to catalogue all successors; which then could request 'inv's and getdata for.
f7b06487025d6bb9…025d6bb9…2022-12-28 23:58:39 <signpost> all the data's there; not all of it was broadcast all-to-all
7fdaee0e765dde92…83d50a3c…2023-02-20 15:27:17 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023863 << wow yes
597ed2133a253a2e…c3884765…2023-01-18 19:46:40 <asciilifeform> imho is a confusion b/w the maggots on the corpse and the murder weapon.
7d5e5def3d9989b3…3d9989b3…2023-09-01 19:46:00 asciilifeform not expected to learn the fate of lenat's purpurted atlantis, but nao it's a defo nope.
b3db63beb99e6a37…d6e499fc…2022-10-31 18:51:20 <asciilifeform> phf: exactly. hence 'wanna amish? try being born as'
6e443749848e5d47…848e5d47…2022-12-08 18:59:20 asciilifeform not likes the proliferation of moving parts, but sumthing like above is prolly necessary
984711c5ea0f7809…cc1a7095…2022-12-14 18:40:58 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018332 << correct in my case. I went and got my biz sold, was meanwhile grunting out a linux distro for the guy and receiving this for my trouble.
9cad71d9f7b06487…f7b06487…2022-12-28 23:59:07 <signpost> any client can then start walking from HEAD of sidechaining containing linux.iso or tits.jpg if it chooses
18a48277f7b06487…d9e19b92…2022-12-28 23:59:13 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform suspects this is isomorphic to ^ . and not knows whether moar or less expensive than same
7404d7227fdaee0e…6099b050…2023-02-20 15:28:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 10:23:46 signpost: well, too long and snipped anyway. but this change combined with the results of current SEC cases against shitcoins at least amounts to a normie ban on shitcoins.
2ca1da8f597ed213…597ed213…2023-01-18 19:47:29 <asciilifeform> 'pie stopped expanding' and so yes, the focus of 'young, uppity' folx became 'how to steal a share of the dwindling pie' rather than 'design sr-71' or 'colonize india' etc
2d8d00cdbbd9829e…2e071bb0…2023-01-21 19:10:17 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-03-01 asciilifeform: one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them
a0162880b3db63be…b3db63be…2022-10-31 18:51:54 <asciilifeform> it doesn't come in pill form just yet.
660df5616e443749…92e19e7a…2022-12-08 19:01:34 <phf> i guess the remaining hole is that a newb might not be able to get a complete log under some specific circumstances, since netchain/selfchain mostly covers it
e0def1bf984711c5…0b866f1a…2022-12-14 18:42:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:11:54 phf[awt]: was the moment when everyone but mp looked at their hodl and realized that it's nowhere near large enough for "to the moon", the time put into tmsr projects suddenly was weighted against substatntial, life changing sums
70420c5818a48277…9cad71d9…2022-12-28 23:59:16 <signpost> and if it chooses, will then have with what to answer other requests for same
eb28a8bc7404d722…44682166…2023-02-20 15:59:44 <asciilifeform> hm did shitcoins get reich.adjudicated as 'shares' or is hypothetical ?
79351e1a2d8d00cd…b0e316a7…2023-01-21 19:11:22 <signpost> also oughta mention for thread completeness and for n00bs that the vision, if unrealized, was for the tmsr WoT to grow to significant coverage of rock three.
7c72a24a2d8d00cd…79351e1a…2023-01-21 19:12:48 <signpost> the where and why of meaning was "in the eyes of the peerage", WoT being the record of tournament of tournaments
c487abc9a0162880…e3105be0…2022-10-31 18:53:45 <phf> asciilifeform, well, that's a different issue. becoming amish, but with your foundational philosophy being tmsr, vs literally becoming amish. the later is avaible, and welcomed, you just don't get an instragram picture out of it, so very few people do it
4e866601660df561…660df561…2022-12-08 19:02:18 <phf> some birst of "and fuck you all i'm never coming back", that just happened to go into a separate branch, and then there's never been any more messages from that station
fd0a6c49e0def1bf…e0def1bf…2022-12-14 18:42:23 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-11-25 mircea_popescu: seems to me today november the 25th we've not moved inch one away from nov 12th, though it's been two weeks. i don't expect anything substantially different will occur in the remaining two, so i'll just conclude that for whatev
5b1b60358fbf17ef…77550238…2023-01-18 19:53:34 <phf> eh, all kinds of questions remain unanswered. whether you accept the meme, or provide an obvious counterpoint
2ae46edb79351e1a…bbd9829e…2023-01-21 19:12:49 <asciilifeform> eh, e.g. nick tesla wanted wireless mains grid covering planet3. errybody wants
ae86c79a7c72a24a…6d2369db…2023-01-21 19:14:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:39:42 signpost: there is a hierarchy of tournaments in functioning human civilization
628d91afc487abc9…c487abc9…2022-10-31 18:55:59 <phf> not otherwise different from "becoming japanese" or "becoming russian". learn language, live in the area, go to church, do business with, etc. in 20 years maybe some of them will consider you a close friend and business partner, others will still insist on speaking english with you no mater what
0a87ba35fd0a6c49…ea0f7809…2022-12-14 18:41:45 <asciilifeform> signpost: if in e.g. 2010 'it is nao prohibited to run btc noad!', mpaa tasked with ferreting out violators, arguably would've been moar interesting times, perhaps steady 100bux or whatnot exch rate, actual honest work re stego & network health, and no goldman pumpers
c6fbaafbfd0a6c49…43257e07…2022-12-14 18:46:16 <asciilifeform> did seem genuinely surprised re the ants walking outta the ant farm via hole
515524cdec2103d7…70420c58…2022-12-28 23:59:46 <signpost> I can then say things like "I care about sidechains from phf and not dickbutt"
c490ca23ec2103d7…ba44ad94…2022-12-29 00:01:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-28 12:16:18 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: ftr here's anuther, entirely different, 'inelegant solution' -- binary multipart msgs, but erry single one has to carry nethash/selfhash of the immed. preceding text msg., so that stations are able to 'skip' it when walking back the chain.
b7886bc8b5258f25…765dde92…2023-02-20 16:03:46 <signpost> yeah, they're rolling through shitcoin companies in court setting precedent, going after anything that stakes, yields, etc.
435e08225b1b6035…2ca1da8f…2023-01-18 19:53:42 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's cosmography, current reich is making the precisely same 'inward turn' as 17th c. spain, having exhausted (and then deprived of) its colony feedstock, turning 'up own arse' (process of 'auto-colonization')
b4dce043ae86c79a…7c72a24a…2023-01-21 19:13:17 <signpost> entirely true that this was the political aspiration of the item at the time.
e90bae2cf022ae95…29d42fa3…2023-09-01 23:41:59 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030211 << signpost: ack
fce58054628d91af…a0162880…2022-10-31 18:56:21 <asciilifeform> central q upstack imho was, tho, does 'canhaz unmediated communication' 'do sumthing' per se. entirely possibly -- that not, that it is entirely same proj as those folx who '3d print kalash', with which 0 shot anyffin, usually not even paper target. but -- possibly that not.
d49113b2e6cc68c1…e6cc68c1…2022-12-08 19:03:07 <phf> which is also necessarily hearsay, so is that even a problem :>
826b44360a87ba35…984711c5…2022-12-14 18:43:29 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018344 << fwiw I made the guy aware I had a growing PAYMENTS BUSINESS for christ's sake and zero flowed my way
4c9d80ccc6fbaafb…de26cdb6…2022-12-14 18:48:01 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018351 << I agree; without repair to culture, novel monetary instrument means very little.
24b3a3b5c490ca23…ec2103d7…2022-12-29 00:00:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: you'd prolly end up with 'only care about sidechains from l1' tho, given as only l1 peers are distinguishable
a9a2b7ec435e0822…435e0822…2023-01-18 19:55:47 <asciilifeform> i.e. the national equivalent of stereotypical ex-rich who ends up burning piano for firewood and whoring out his wife to try & carry on 'being rich' for however long 'possible'
db9ce5b9b4dce043…2ae46edb…2023-01-21 19:13:37 <asciilifeform> 'aim for stars, but at least hit london'(tm)
d353dc1ae90bae2c…342e9f11…2023-09-01 23:43:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 09:05:35 awt_akris[signpost]: crtdaydreams: phf [pest://NbRenjeCQcJQBkGEIlhOWRKPfQdJuEWEE/U8Wd+x67Q=][doesn't hang around here anymore]
ebade98bfce58054…fce58054…2022-10-31 18:57:45 <asciilifeform> it aint somehow a given that 'dig with spoon' goes anywhere useful. and inmate entirely within his rights to not dig, instead play cards, drink chifir etc
0e033239d49113b2…6e443749…2022-12-08 19:11:16 <asciilifeform> a peer from whom one sees msg with unknown (missed) selfchain predecessor, who drops and never seen again, will indeed leave a perma-hole in the log. but if such holes handled correctly, not mega-problem ultimately
6abfbad9826b4436…fd0a6c49…2022-12-14 18:44:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:47:45 billymg: partly because of mp's alleged 100k btc stack, thought "his inner circle must be doing well"
14f8e2cc4c9d80cc…6abfbad9…2022-12-14 18:49:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 13:07:39 phf[awt]: i also don't think that bitcoin is that interesting without tmsr and it's outright boring as a hodl
db9c5ce024b3a3b5…24b3a3b5…2022-12-29 00:00:44 <asciilifeform> and then may as well pass files in direct streams of luby
80051b965cb11997…eb28a8bc…2023-02-20 16:04:05 asciilifeform skeptical re any possibility of deliberate scuttling of shitcoinism by reich. at this pt seems to be solidly part of the 'tbtf house of cards'
3ac95ee0a9a2b7ec…5b1b6035…2023-01-18 19:59:46 <phf> i think the kinds of analogies are insufficient for an explanation of modernity. like you can reduce locklin to "wokes took over science", then your analogy can be reduced to an eqaully popular meme of "we living through fall of rome"
712f86c7a9a2b7ec…a9a2b7ec…2023-01-18 19:59:53 <asciilifeform> phf: no doubt you've seen the memeplex (in asciilifeform's pov, illustrated by locklin, the 'bap' people, etc) where '1950s golden age, but patient, clever communist infiltrators Set Up Us The Bomb'
228eac7c0e033239…0e033239…2022-12-08 19:11:51 <asciilifeform> ( hence 'broken heart' idea earlier, so to avoid eternal hammer of getdata when encountering said hole )
a5c520e56abfbad9…826b4436…2022-12-14 18:43:51 <signpost> would've netted him an actual return on any shares bought too.
49ef04ff14f8e2cc…4c9d80cc…2022-12-14 18:48:30 <signpost> those that think money's at a level beneath culture have spent too much time in the corporate empire.
8edae5d5db9c5ce0…db9c5ce0…2022-12-29 00:01:14 <asciilifeform> recall that all hearsays 'can be from anyone'
6af7b4b980051b96…80051b96…2023-02-20 16:05:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: they'll simply switch to mavrodi/mmm-style 'we Officially promise nuffin'
8ce7cc673ac95ee0…712f86c7…2023-01-18 20:00:43 <asciilifeform> imho the traditional 'fall of rome' pov where 'ran outta people to eat' was actually correct model.
51f88d837cb61b48…7cb61b48…2023-01-21 19:14:12 <signpost> engine at least turned over for a while in these
076fd537ddc2b081…ddc2b081…2023-09-01 23:42:21 <signpost> the brackets contain who relayed the message to you
cd8074a63e635c97…ebade98b…2022-10-31 18:58:26 <asciilifeform> 'to dig or not to dig' is personal matter.
ce7b818f228eac7c…228eac7c…2022-12-08 19:12:16 <asciilifeform> ditto a peer who emits a msg that is chained to an invalid (violates format rule somehow, i.e. bad uniturd) msg
d3d7f756a5c520e5…a5c520e5…2022-12-14 18:44:16 <signpost> life goes on, but this was about the time I decided to reallocate effort, yes.
d2ce5d60a5c520e5…0a87ba35…2022-12-14 18:44:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: d00d had all the cocaine he needed, etc. and ran tmsr the way boy runs an ant farm, strictly for entertainment, 'watch'em scamper for crumbs', is asciilifeform's pov re the denoument years
c53499f849ef04ff…c6fbaafb…2022-12-14 18:49:40 <asciilifeform> with the kind of 'friends' btc has, not needs enemies, lol
7c892ee08edae5d5…8edae5d5…2022-12-29 00:01:47 <asciilifeform> ( folx , even who have tuned in from the beginning of the pest threads, tend to forget the implications of this )
faed9c936af7b4b9…b7886bc8…2023-02-20 16:05:26 <signpost> https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/02/09/kraken-agreed-to-shutter-crypto-staking-operations-to-settle-sec-charges-source/
04167bcf8ce7cc67…8fbf17ef…2023-01-18 20:01:47 <signpost> just to be clear, my question is why the people that believe that are not able to be used productively.
a831e8bf51f88d83…ae86c79a…2023-01-21 19:15:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 19:26:07 phf[awt|deedbot]: i mean you had classical communism and fascism
a9fa5b3ccd8074a6…cd8074a6…2022-10-31 18:58:55 <asciilifeform> and 'what direction dig' a good subj for discussion. but 'to dig?' imho less
f9258478ce7b818f…ce7b818f…2022-12-08 19:12:58 <asciilifeform> the invalid msg ought not to simply get discarded, gotta save it with a 'don't try to display' mark or equiv.
9b6519cac53499f8…49ef04ff…2022-12-14 18:51:00 <signpost> absent a tmsr producing businesses (which require either capital or approx 10y of sweat) you have sequoia, andresson, et al owning "fintech" as tentacles of the reich.
1301fa7d7c892ee0…7c892ee0…2022-12-29 00:03:39 <asciilifeform> the q re 'inline' is specifically re 'should people be in the habit of ~broadcasting~ lolcat.jpg'.
6607d11cfaed9c93…5cb11997…2023-02-20 16:05:30 <awt> asciilifeform: afaict SEC considers shitcoins to be securities hence shares
236f7165a831e8bf…db9ce5b9…2023-01-21 19:17:11 <asciilifeform> we still have'em, lol, they hybridized & won, current reich is recognizable result
bd6406f8f93594d1…f93594d1…2023-09-01 23:43:16 <crtdaydreams> I missed all of that, I've only caught up on August logs
3462c197a9fa5b3c…3e635c97…2022-10-31 19:00:11 <phf> well, hence we are where we are, because the original j'accuse was that "engineers will dig, just because there's dirt"
193a071bf9258478…f9258478…2022-12-08 19:13:14 <asciilifeform> (otherwise potentially eternal getdata hammer for it)
6c42d0a643257e07…d3d7f756…2022-12-14 18:44:58 <signpost> the game's fun for those meant for the game
5912a4691301fa7d…1301fa7d…2022-12-29 00:04:50 <asciilifeform> there are no bw-guzzling or hdd-filling issues re ~direct~ transfer of a chained (or lubyized for that matter) cat.jpg
0c1684e36607d11c…6af7b4b9…2023-02-20 16:05:52 <asciilifeform> ( mavrodi's mmm started with 'shares', knocked down by ru equiv of 'sec', then rebranded the 'shares' to 'collectable paper with formally 0 worth'
d811f9f5d3439f4d…d3439f4d…2023-01-18 20:02:23 <signpost> as one more thread alongside "tmsr failed because everybody needed to go get more fiats for corn"
372afd89236f7165…51f88d83…2023-01-21 19:18:30 <signpost> yep, and dropping pretense to otherwise quickly.
b391abc13462c197…a9fa5b3c…2022-10-31 19:00:30 <asciilifeform> some folx psychologically inclined to dig, even if 'nowhere to'
de26cdb66c42d0a6…6c42d0a6…2022-12-14 18:45:10 <signpost> in either case, he had the right to do what pleased.
16fea0be77a19029…c53499f8…2022-12-14 18:52:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: from asciilifeform's pov, there simply wasn't the capital to even have sporting chance of any interesting mega-proj taking off.
6f63b1fc5912a469…5912a469…2022-12-29 00:05:30 <asciilifeform> i.e. you know who is sending it, he's 1 of yer peers, and if you dun want it, can throw it out and ask him to stop
9d974e694abacd1e…d811f9f5…2023-01-18 20:03:14 <signpost> the traditionalist streak in the US is sitting around with its dick in hand watching influencers 3D print guns, as an example.
3cdfd30c4abacd1e…3ac95ee0…2023-01-18 20:03:14 <phf> but i find all kinds of questions unanswered, like why rhodesia, how does information velocity factor into this, what's the essence of wokeism, how does "cellphone in every pocket" factor into this, why open borders, why modern holywood, why no "build in garage" culture, etc.
2159745f372afd89…137eafb9…2023-01-21 19:19:18 <cgra> phf, thanks for the cmu font tip. i got it going, but for some reason the best matching variant is skinnier than in your screenshot. anyway, not worth much further investigation at this point.
b4865376cc74018d…cc74018d…2023-09-01 23:51:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030218 << all power to him
6e23bac951de2e14…d49113b2…2022-12-08 19:26:44 <phf> right, ignoring the case of subtly maliciuos peer
1e44c28316fea0be…16fea0be…2022-12-14 18:52:38 <asciilifeform> (once you substract mp's jingling but tightly-closed purse)
25e5b42c6f63b1fc…515524cd…2022-12-29 00:06:01 <signpost> my l1 attesting to the HEAD message hash of a >l1 sidechain still tells me something, if less than I'd know if I were peered with him directly
ec7cc604ca2d9c00…b5258f25…2023-02-20 16:06:39 <PeterL> awt, getting a wall of warnings in my log that I don't have mccrypt and is using pure python, didn't we suggest that would get checked once instead of constantly?
a5214679b4865376…d353dc1a…2023-09-01 23:53:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 14:07:43 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030211 << asciilifeform suspects that he went into analogue world, the 1 where thoroughbred horses, rifles, wild meat, etc
e3e9e2f64cfcfa59…4cfcfa59…2022-10-31 19:01:20 <asciilifeform> occasionally they get out; but moar usually just dirty, and beaten by guards
865f26406e23bac9…51de2e14…2022-12-08 19:37:19 <asciilifeform> subtly (or not) malicious peer can do various annoying things. from pov of protocol design, q re subj is how to: 1) make immed. obv. ~which~ peer 2) limit same to 'annoying' rather than e.g. 'makes chain perma-inedible'
9d9f1ecc25e5b42c…25e5b42c…2022-12-29 00:06:39 <signpost> say you know linus, and linus just emitted a sidechain containing latest kernel. and you decide to republish the reference message to this such that I see your attestation of the hash.
7ca94954ec7cc604…ca2d9c00…2023-02-20 16:06:55 <asciilifeform> awt: linked piece seems to be concretely about 'staking services'
437ee62f77776680…4abacd1e…2023-01-18 20:04:51 asciilifeform has 'on file' what he thinks are entirely workable hypotheses re phf's q's, but subj prolly deserves separate thread(s)
b78c9e710eea882b…2d8d00cd…2023-01-21 19:20:43 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-25 asciilifeform: current reich is based on model of 'cheaper to guard the concentration camp if the inmates can be persuaded that they aint in one' ;
f8c250e3a5214679…b4865376…2023-09-01 23:55:44 crtdaydreams is aware of others who've retreated to their acreage
8ffabd80e3e9e2f6…3462c197…2022-10-31 19:02:19 <phf> you brought up shalamov just now, and recall his story where the escape was organized by former wwii army unit, who escaped, but were doomed and knew it, "still better to die free men"
d9cce261865f2640…865f2640…2022-12-08 19:38:04 <asciilifeform> (to take 1 example, prolly oughta rate-limit chained msgs. currently not in spec at all)
fcca58242c76a2bb…77a19029…2022-12-14 18:52:59 <signpost> sure. I've never been opposed to producing works for fun so long as nobody's cracking a whip.
a622838c9d9f1ecc…6f63b1fc…2022-12-29 00:07:13 <asciilifeform> rright, today would simply be e.g. sha2 of the tar, in ordinary text
5086b79f437ee62f…3cdfd30c…2023-01-18 20:05:16 <phf> why was SALEM the last counter culture in america (and possibly in the world)
f7ca4958d9cce261…d9cce261…2022-12-08 19:38:27 <asciilifeform> right nao sumbody could easily shit out 1TB of chained msgs and fill errybody's hdd.
e587015cfcca5824…2c76a2bb…2022-12-14 18:54:01 <asciilifeform> e.g. asciilifeform offered to help bake silicon, set up pirate radio net, etc. but would've req'd actual spend. and unsurprisingly d00d wasn't interested
c2bef0e9a622838c…9d9f1ecc…2022-12-29 00:07:51 <signpost> yup, just a more formalized mechanism of chaining trust as already done.
02c654915086b79f…5086b79f…2023-01-18 20:06:44 <phf> like i suspect that the parties in 17th century spain during the collapse were lit af, and you still had artisans making beautiful chairs to burn, special order
c71f0b455086b79f…437ee62f…2023-01-18 20:06:46 <asciilifeform> would note, tho, that 'build in garage culture' aint what died, but the 'erryone hears about what was built in garage' has gone, and back to historic norm ( a la 16th c china, where plenty of 'built in garage' tech demos, but royals 'i'ma put this in imperial toy collection, nao get back to yer day job, i need my horoscope
deedfd44fc52e91c…fc52e91c…2023-09-02 00:00:21 <crtdaydreams> I don't suppose he'd continue reading logs
b6109f25c18a1fd9…c18a1fd9…2022-10-31 19:02:54 <asciilifeform> iirc 1 of the few that got translated and came out in eng
aa901f0df7ca4958…f7ca4958…2022-12-08 19:39:59 <asciilifeform> ( aaand not even speaking of straight-out lulbugs )
f052bbfce587015c…e587015c…2022-12-14 19:00:03 <asciilifeform> pretty sure we had this thrd at least 1ce, but -- to the extent mp had political/megalomaniacal aims, was interested in carrying'em out only to the extent it could be done by folx 'doing tricks for peanuts'. (or, hypothetically, by other moneybags, somehow politically aligned -- but none turned up)
ade9a5edd1ea7ad2…d1ea7ad2…2023-02-20 16:07:37 <asciilifeform> 'Kraken’s staking service offered a 20% APY, promising to send customers staking rewards twice per week, according to its website.' etc
8c15f2b3d1ea7ad2…faed9c93…2023-02-20 16:07:39 <signpost> https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2022/lr25573.htm
b6ccd14852d108af…52d108af…2023-02-20 16:09:48 <signpost> hilariously, gensler's claimed a few times that ethereum meets his definition of a commodity.
c3afb8ff52d108af…95ff39d7…2023-02-20 16:09:49 asciilifeform ianal + not gives sufficient shit to dig deeply enuff to say whether it'll work
5865484002c65491…c71f0b45…2023-01-18 20:08:15 <asciilifeform> popular interest in 'exciting inventions' aint a human universal of any kind, but factually is 'luxury', in practice only available to folx who, en masse, feel on solid enuff ground to take part in 'new things' experiments
d41c9e9735faf0a9…0eea882b…2023-01-21 19:37:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021299 << does he? ( and, supposing that chapel, or e.g. pyramids, were moar impressive to contemporaries than today's redditus, is this on account of 'dead god' or simply colour photography ? )
8243a5fedeedfd44…deedfd44…2023-09-02 00:01:52 crtdaydreams in the coming months will have time to examine cl vtools and other artifacts, might even be able to piece together a working model in the tmsr fashion
7ba3c406b6109f25…b6109f25…2022-10-31 19:03:13 <asciilifeform> ( iirc there are several versions of the legend, also )
f6504d0caa901f0d…c8b9c351…2022-12-08 19:41:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 16:17:44 asciilifeform[6]: in otherlulz, lulzy sideffects of yest.'s blatta bugola.
31ae4e12f052bbfc…fcca5824…2022-12-14 19:03:13 <signpost> to be charitable, without other moneybags showing up, world ain't changing.
9f4d8a9ac7893c38…a622838c…2022-12-29 00:08:34 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's lights, the way to get the tar itself oughta be to ask one's l1 for the hash, as broadcast; someone will have it, or at least have permitted his station to receive it from a peer who ... recurses
8f0a7cc1ade9a5ed…8c15f2b3…2023-02-20 16:08:10 <signpost> sure, but just about all shitcoins have such a company behind them. lbry was an example.
36992d6dc3afb8ff…b6ccd148…2023-02-20 16:10:25 <signpost> point of bringing it up is a creep inward of govt, starting with easiest targets, rather than interest in usg legal trivia
09dc917358654840…02c65491…2023-01-18 20:09:16 <phf> asciilifeform, take me to a garage where anything built, that's not yours. i'll then remotely consider your rebutal. i'm a plenty social person irl, walk into random people's garages "whacha cooking here" and it's mostly meth
ee46a911d41c9e97…a831e8bf…2023-01-21 19:39:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:34:50 phf[deedbot]: well, a nihilist is in a historic context. when an amerimutt looks up in a sistine chapel he necessarily feels anger, that's why amerimutt desided to destroy the whole world with woke
77603cec7ba3c406…8ffabd80…2022-10-31 19:03:35 <phf> i think it's in second half of the kolima tales, though that one translation that exists is god awful
8e06f48bf6504d0c…aa901f0d…2022-12-08 19:43:08 <asciilifeform> ... at the very least, msg-eater oughta hard-prioritize immeds/directs over hearsays in all cases (and remain responsive to operator commands nomatterwhat)
5fa479c431ae4e12…f052bbfc…2022-12-14 19:03:35 <asciilifeform> the moneybags, near as asciilifeform can see w/ naked eye, like 'world' precisely as it is.
e67f4fff9f4d8a9a…9f4d8a9a…2022-12-29 00:09:13 <asciilifeform> who doesn't want the thing, simply refrains from triggering this process on his station
95ff39d78f0a7cc1…ade9a5ed…2023-02-20 16:09:01 <asciilifeform> likely. seems they'll simply change the verbiage tho, to mmm-style
6bb8dee236992d6d…1590a233…2023-02-20 16:10:43 <awt> PeterL: Looks like I didn't. To aleviate for now you can comment out line 80 in lib/message.py.
4c535e9609dc9173…58654840…2023-01-18 20:10:36 <asciilifeform> phf: take, for instance, that poor fuck who built lawn mower chopper and landed on dc capitol ( 2017 ? ) -- garage
48972538ee46a911…d41c9e97…2023-01-21 19:40:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021312 << afaik over90000x moar common sudden q was 'my salary stopped showing up, and even if showed up dinner costs moar than it' rather than 'ohnoez they turned off marx watdo'
b01880158bb6ea61…f022ae95…2023-09-02 00:31:08 <shinohai> In igolder revisted news: https://aliceandbob.io/online-pgp-tool
d4c344018e06f48b…8e06f48b…2022-12-08 19:46:07 <asciilifeform> 1 possible scheme would be -- quota: n peers, erry peer can occupy at most 1/n bw, 1/n cpu, etc
0814a728e67f4fff…e67f4fff…2022-12-29 00:09:33 <asciilifeform> if sumthing is genuinely integral-to-the-thread, imho it will end up available
68b7201f6bb8dee2…c3afb8ff…2023-02-20 16:11:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: reich enacted shitcoins, could, naturally, cancel'em whenever. but to asciilifeform not clear why would do so, it's an a++ waterfall fuel & idjit tax.
4a89672d4c535e96…4c535e96…2023-01-18 20:10:53 <asciilifeform> occasionally still they make sumthing other than meth or samogon
d76f1cbc48972538…ee46a911…2023-01-21 19:41:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:49:48 phf[deedbot]: n giant country, built hospitals and factories, etc." but that's not the perspective the bulk of men take. the perspective is/was "what the fuck my life is a lie what do"
8a1286fdb0188015…b0188015…2023-09-02 00:38:18 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030243 << I have few complaints with esthlos-v, have been using it exclusively for last 5 years I reckon. Not to say it dun need some polish.
aa23b475d4c34401…d4c34401…2022-12-08 19:47:33 <asciilifeform> (outta whatever remains from processing incoming/unidentified blackpackets at line rate)
b686673f3dd32e31…14f8e2cc…2022-12-14 19:04:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-07 11:55:31 asciilifeform[5]: mp for his part was visibly (and sympathetically) frustrated at presiding over band of clockmakers rather than pikemen. but if wanted the latter, oughta have config'd his time machine correctly.
40d1bbc70814a728…0814a728…2022-12-29 00:09:49 <asciilifeform> even without being stuffed in the chain wholesale
9b26d14f68b7201f…7404d722…2023-02-20 16:13:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 12:06:55 asciilifeform[6]: billymg: per asciilifeform's pov, worst thing that's happened to bitcoin to date was its 2010s 'legalization' and the 'institutional' 'law-abiding' vermin crawling in and pumping/dumping
d2d1df3c4a89672d…09dc9173…2023-01-18 20:12:13 <phf> well, fair, i'm establishing boundaries here, but i guess i have an implicit measure for what i would consider "oh yeah there's still garage culture". like for example if i were to be a hikikomori, espousing "death the west theories" and then someone was like "come to my hood, we b ƕ+aCn O? +QY?i
fd89a038d76f1cbc…48972538…2023-01-21 19:40:49 <asciilifeform> ( the folx who 'enscribed themselves into market(tm)(r)' not, by any indication, sat and suffered with existential questions, were far too busy snorting coke )
fe6ac1038a1286fd…a5214679…2023-09-02 00:39:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 20:03:44 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: in the coming months will have time to examine cl vtools and other artifacts, might even be able to piece together a working model in the tmsr fashion
f47cfdce6fbe6d97…77603cec…2022-10-31 19:04:37 <phf> they stripped shalamov poetic language, and all that's left is the "horrors ilza, the werewolf of ss"
9cc33da7aa23b475…6e23bac9…2022-12-08 19:48:35 <phf> kind of wish™ there was automatic machinery for that kind of stuff on the language level. at present the only language i know that supports "max n-cycles" on environment level is lua
a7047796b686673f…5fa479c4…2022-12-14 19:06:19 <asciilifeform> d00d wanted shaheeds, but neglected to invent a suitable religion that'd offer the req'd 72 virgins
9285cdce40d1bbc7…1fc649d5…2022-12-29 00:10:04 <phf> the primary and exclusive characterstic of an `obviously inline` binary blob is that you always get it with your logs in real time at the rate of the network or from log storage. it is in all other ways equivalent to a log.
efdfbc8f9b26d14f…ec7cc604…2023-02-20 16:23:41 <PeterL> I suppose I should try to get mcrypt installed, I seem to remember I bumped into some problem trying to get it but I don't remember what
c0b8980ed2d1df3c…d2d1df3c…2023-01-18 20:12:13 <phf> uilt a precision lathe here a chinese off the shelf model". in reality "killdozer guy built his own killdozer in 20xx?" ƕ+aCn O? +QY?i
1dc79fe6fd89a038…fd89a038…2023-01-21 19:42:19 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel had great piece re subj, recently linked
ab62b8fc9cc33da7…9cc33da7…2022-12-08 19:50:19 <phf> it's a pain to write anyway, ough to have a rate limiter on decoder, that backs off to in-memory store, that backs off to drive store, that caps out at some particular size, and then starts evicting old or rejecting new or whatever . ain't nobody got time for that
6566af95a7047796…a7047796…2022-12-14 19:09:04 <asciilifeform> phf: upstack, was this the diana piece in question ?
be329d4f9285cdce…9285cdce…2022-12-29 00:10:40 <phf> but /most/ binary blobs you want to make decisions about. do i want to download linux.iso or knuth.pdf?
188a01a2efdfbc8f…6bb8dee2…2023-02-20 16:29:19 <awt> Addition of mcrypt was a byproduct of the amount of address cast spam in the original address cast release.
1fed4868c0b8980e…c0b8980e…2023-01-18 20:13:40 <phf> on the other hand you have "dacha" culture in post-su (i'm pretty sure it's not like that now either), where "boys across the street building drag racer" "old man down the alley is restoring his wwii moped" "guy next door is lathing a pipe to fix his shower" etc.
cade0fa31dc79fe6…1dc79fe6…2023-01-21 19:42:54 <asciilifeform> '...its a retarded question.. this thought should never appear in ur head, if it does, something has alredy gone wrong' etc
c315635d1bb8f320…1bb8f320…2023-09-03 15:38:32 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-02#1030250 << sadly no, currently using smalpest since it is just a modified irc bot. When I have time to fully grok akris api would like to update it.
8163b746a020d227…6fbe6d97…2022-10-31 19:05:12 <asciilifeform> well they didn't have an english shalamov to make it go in eng. so yea stripped
cab94230ab62b8fc…aa23b475…2022-12-08 20:48:00 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform was thinking moar in the vein of careful algo design + 'round robin', rather than a custom scheduler with preemption
e48ec06a6566af95…dcbe8da5…2022-12-14 19:12:33 <signpost> may also be something fundamentally broken about revival/memberberries movements.
cb0c2322be329d4f…40d1bbc7…2022-12-29 00:11:15 <asciilifeform> can always set yer station to auto-request cat.jpg which has advertised size <= N bytes
377a3f63188a01a2…68b7201f…2023-02-20 17:17:30 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, apropos of nuffin, in asciilifeform's experiments with 'ergonomics' crackpottery. surprisingly comfortable.
083c2b1e1fed4868…4a89672d…2023-01-18 20:14:14 <asciilifeform> not far from asciilifeform there's a fella with lathe etc., restoring rare ancient autos. but he's in his 60s
a27d6648cade0fa3…cade0fa3…2023-01-21 19:46:46 asciilifeform observes the obv trend of thinking folx on the net wishing for comeback of old religions (mostly anglo protestantisms, tho also catholicism or, in ru, mass epidemic of 'orthodoxy of central nervous system'(tm)) but imho is interesting cocktail of lulz and unexamined motivations
fcafff7bc315635d…fe6ac103…2023-09-03 15:39:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-02 13:10:58 awt_akris[billymg]: shinohai: busybot is running using Akris?
cb0d678c8163b746…8163b746…2022-10-31 19:05:40 <asciilifeform> making 'poetic' in eng is on the order of porting 'doom' to c64
01ef5c84cab94230…cab94230…2022-12-08 20:49:29 <asciilifeform> ( e.g., what's example of a slow op? let's say getdata -- which may load from disk. so $peer1 asks for getdata, but if he asks again, it sits until erry other peer's possibly queued getdata is handled; etc)
09e11e80e48ec06a…6566af95…2022-12-14 19:12:56 asciilifeform not looked at diana's www for rather long while, and found the above a difficult read, is rather like reading e.g. catholic apologists, extreme case of 'limba de lemn'(tm)(r)(mp), one'd need some kinda dope to fully make sense of the text
ee829b09083c2b1e…77776680…2023-01-18 20:14:24 <signpost> no, it's ubiquitous, severe mental illness.
f6079f9ca27d6648…a27d6648…2023-01-21 19:49:54 <asciilifeform> to take just 1, somehow none of'em are in a hurry to pack suitcase and go to dar al islam, even tho fits nearly all of the 'good old' criteria
e89aac14fcafff7b…fc97e040…2023-09-03 20:13:59 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I can publish the discord bot source
20e734d6fcafff7b…c315635d…2023-09-03 21:18:27 <shinohai> awt - would be interesting to read discordbot source, might can get good ideas for it.
12d92bb3cb0d678c…a020d227…2022-10-31 19:06:49 <phf> i still think though that "why dig" is an important question, because it attempts to set some kind of parameters for the final result. imho test for "3d printed kalash" is are you going to grab it when the time comes, or are you going to reach for your license and registration instead
4b8ab29e01ef5c84…01ef5c84…2022-12-08 20:50:42 <asciilifeform> i.e. no need to actually count cpu cycles or preempt an operation.
66e6a12509e11e80…09e11e80…2022-12-14 19:13:19 <asciilifeform> signpost: wat are/were memberberries ?
679605eb52a42875…52a42875…2022-12-29 00:11:35 <asciilifeform> then will behave precisely as if in chain, more or less
4da326266cd3c751…6cd3c751…2023-02-20 17:18:09 <signpost> only problem is the chair's not a massage chair
a5af89ebee829b09…1fed4868…2023-01-18 20:15:47 <phf> i have a friend deep in apalachia, who "works on cars", which out here means "when i was 16, i put a racecar rear diff on my ford pickup and used it to drag race" and now "i have five lifted cherokees and a souped up polaris with turbo engine"
4a5ed102f6079f9c…f6079f9c…2023-01-21 19:56:04 <asciilifeform> imho folx much too preoccupied with the q of what default exception handler oughta be installed in (usually, other people's) heads, and ignore the moar interesting q of 'wai is my head throwing exceptions during normal operation'
98f898cf20e734d6…decd6cb4…2023-09-04 03:23:44 <awt_akris> shinohai: https://gist.github.com/awt/09a98b882d830873ce5050ca6b20c2d2 https://gist.github.com/awt/10a28f189f6c233dba3685f4b451f1cd
c32d5b8712d92bb3…12d92bb3…2022-10-31 19:11:50 <phf> as it stands, pest is the comfy network with frens. the transmission on my lexus went, at a rather inopportune time. everyone who can help me in that situation are rather within the walls of the compound, or else only reachable by various globohomo means.
a64dd1474b8ab29e…4b8ab29e…2022-12-08 20:52:10 <asciilifeform> as for rate limit on decoder, is rather easy -- pick a rate you know the box can handle (the hard part is determining the rate) and throw out incoming msgs as req'd
7836257e66e6a125…e48ec06a…2022-12-14 19:13:58 <signpost> "reboot old europe in bitcoin" for example.
e26539d7679605eb…679605eb…2022-12-29 00:11:51 <asciilifeform> without foisting the cat.jpg on ~erry~ future station that wants to grab the chain to t==0
395bcb3a4da32626…377a3f63…2023-02-20 17:18:41 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform not quadriplegically stuck in it, so not suffers bed sores, lol
cedc9005a5af89eb…083c2b1e…2023-01-18 20:15:58 <asciilifeform> what there afaik defo aint, is young folx who 'i'ma go to garage, and, Great Invention, and surely will make 1e9$'. cuz they read 'the writing on the wall' and understand that 0 uptake for 'inventions' other than shitcoins & misc. financial flimflam
a3d422654a5ed102…13e63e6f…2023-01-21 23:20:02 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021448 << you don't have to "suspect" anything, there's plenty of research on subj. "everyone" covered comes with huge asterisks, because of the nature of both evertyone and covered, but for the purposes of the point i was making it was in fact "everyone" "covered".
5a2d4bdf98f898cf…20e734d6…2023-09-04 14:21:58 <shinohai> tyvm awt_akris - will read later today! Pretty neat you made discord bot in python, mine is nodejs thing.
340ea4d8a64dd147…500f37d2…2022-12-09 01:51:53 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1017793 << peered! Looks like packets are being received
d5fca876e26539d7…c7893c38…2022-12-29 00:12:05 <signpost> phf: so give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not trying to pour acid on your ulcer here. why is an image obviously inline if one might have a device that can't even display this?
142bec6c395bcb3a…395bcb3a…2023-02-20 17:20:43 <asciilifeform> minuses -- vendor makes'em in onesies, charges FG-style; somehow not knows how to deal with reich customs, so the pieces of that thing had to be ransomed and over9000 paperwork; and, lastly, takes 4evah to assemble (you get crate of pipes etc)
1682019dcedc9005…cedc9005…2023-01-18 20:16:15 <asciilifeform> ... and if one were to 'invention', the 'nobility' will simply steal 100% of the win
cdc17ea4a3d42265…d76f1cbc…2023-01-21 23:21:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:10:53 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021418 << asciilifeform suspects that '~erryone was covered' is an ( appealing , yes ) historical fiction, rather than solid phakt
e5bd109f92215f28…cb0d678c…2022-10-31 19:12:54 <asciilifeform> phf: 1 thing is that 'comf with frens' offers satisfaction of incremental results. for instance, this -- solved.
ec311cb5340ea4d8…f6504d0c…2022-12-09 01:53:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 11:41:26 signpost: lobbes: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_G-o << peering info
f379903f82c0879b…7836257e…2022-12-14 19:15:05 <signpost> not that it doesn't appeal to me, but it might be rather like fighting a riptide. the sea of transmayo slaves will move as it does without even noticing ya
0ed32359d5fca876…e26539d7…2022-12-29 00:12:15 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. just about errybody gets what he wants )
c14a9340142bec6c…142bec6c…2023-02-20 17:24:42 <asciilifeform> vendor supposedly takes btc. ( asciilifeform not tried tho )
739794891682019d…a5af89eb…2023-01-18 20:16:24 <phf> but it's an hour of drive from me to him, and i met him by literally walking into his garage and going "i see you have a cherokee parked outside, you got a spare rear diff?"
d8ad14d1cdc17ea4…b78c9e71…2023-01-21 23:20:14 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-03-01 asciilifeform: and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot
14bd6483c91c0f2f…5a2d4bdf…2023-09-05 15:18:42 <shinohai> GM Pestizens! If there is any reader here that tinkers with trinque's pentacle and would be so kind as to share a tarball of their `src/` vtree, I would greatly appreciate.
72e20f2ae5bd109f…bdfe1cfa…2022-10-31 19:12:54 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-07-07 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-07#1110808 << initially asciilifeform had a very concrete problem -- 'how do i announce rack outages if dulapnet lives in selfsame rack?' -- and tried (with help from signpost et al) to [http://
e878604e0ed32359…d5fca876…2022-12-29 00:12:35 <signpost> perhaps the answer there's that it's still good citizenry of a pest station to forward what's realtime chain data
f9aa1802c14a9340…630488a4…2023-02-20 18:26:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023895 << "i want a cyberpunk 2077 netrunner setup -- say no more, fam"
01f56bfd73979489…73979489…2023-01-18 20:17:23 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020810 << see that's why i can't agree with your theories of "why no longer garage", because your idea of what's the driving force behind "garage" is flawed to begin with
3ad992c6d8ad14d1…a3d42265…2023-01-21 23:22:02 <phf> if you want to slog through a very extensive historic account of the role of both religion and "magic" in the life of englishmen circa 17th century, i highly recommend https://www.abebooks.com/9780140600155/Religion-Decline-Magic-Thomas-Keith-0140600159/plp
f2c7e5a872e20f2a…e5bd109f…2022-10-31 19:15:23 <asciilifeform> take small bite; then anuther; and at some pt will be able to call the fixer via 3 hops of 900mhz or watnot. 'what does this do?' is separate q, and only answerable when extending the hypothetical to e.g. 'can call when no tower?' 'can call when his socialcredit(tm) is insufficient to use tower' etc
0f7a075c81935404…340ea4d8…2022-12-09 01:58:21 <lobbes> I've posted some of my pest (blatta-9971) crib-notes up on my blog. Most likely only of use to me, with the possible exception of the fix I applied to line 71 of blatta/batta in order to get loggin
2afb2d7678796dfe…78796dfe…2022-12-14 19:16:25 <asciilifeform> problem is e.g. 'let's reboot sound money' 'but how to prevent goldman from issuing unbacked paperized obligations in it' '..'
cb6ba776e878604e…0ed32359…2022-12-29 00:12:38 <asciilifeform> 'the wolves are fed and the sheep are whole'(tm)(ru)
92d48c81f9aa1802…9b26d14f…2023-02-20 18:27:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 12:18:48 asciilifeform[4]: meanwhile, apropos of nuffin, in asciilifeform's experiments with 'ergonomics' crackpottery. surprisingly comfortable.
a769e33501f56bfd…9c5ad065…2023-01-18 20:18:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:17:11 asciilifeform[5]: what there afaik defo aint, is young folx who 'i'ma go to garage, and, Great Invention, and surely will make 1e9$'. cuz they read 'the writing on the wall' and understand that 0 uptake for 'inventions' other than shitcoins & misc. financial flimflam
035368ef3ad992c6…3ad992c6…2023-01-21 23:29:12 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021471 << i think you're wrong here also, and i will rely on my personal experience growing up in russia immediately after collapse. i will in fact argue that "they turned off marx what do" is a defining question of the 90s, rather than "my salary stopped showing up"
a21d4afff2c7e5a8…f2c7e5a8…2022-10-31 19:16:10 <asciilifeform> unlike kalash, does not req a 'decisive' 1 act of 'allahu akbar'
f044043d2afb2d76…f379903f…2022-12-14 19:17:51 <signpost> the answer is the sovereign kills them for it, and this won't happen while common law and pretend democracy of transmayo slaves.
e80403b9cb6ba776…cb6ba776…2022-12-29 00:14:23 asciilifeform wants precisely this -- cat.jpg remains available, on acct of being massively mirrored, and propagated on request; while base chain is kept compact and fetchable without 'go buy hdd and wait 3months'
7d56356f92d48c81…f9aa1802…2023-02-20 18:27:22 <phf> my main concern would be with hand blood circulation, since it looks like hands not just above heart, but even above head
acf59705a769e335…1682019d…2023-01-18 20:18:20 <asciilifeform> phf: 'will surely getrich' wasn't the only driver. there was also the low cost of living + leisure
00c43acf035368ef…cdc17ea4…2023-01-21 23:30:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:41:28 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021312 << afaik over90000x moar common sudden q was 'my salary stopped showing up, and even if showed up dinner costs moar than it' rather than 'ohnoez they turned off marx watdo'
ff1d05843a8347b3…30981b20…2023-09-05 15:28:46 <signpost> I believe the reason there were debootstrap issues with the last upload I did is that it relies upon a symlink in the debs folder
555bf7e2a21d4aff…a21d4aff…2022-10-31 19:16:26 <asciilifeform> but rather over9000 small allahu-akbars.
486e47ab1bcbceec…1bcbceec…2022-12-09 01:58:28 <lobbes> Possibly just a peculiarity with python 2.6 versus python 2.7
5ef8439e1bcbceec…a49eedb7…2022-12-09 03:03:47 <awt> lol lobbes you just had to find an even earlier version of python
aa8f4063f044043d…2afb2d76…2022-12-14 19:18:49 <asciilifeform> well ~whole appeal was 'dun need million-man army, they kill themselves' somehow
eb1e37187d56356f…7d56356f…2023-02-20 18:28:34 <phf> it seems like a setup like that calls for a split keyboard, mounted at arm rest position on both sides, below heart
97179db900c43acf…035368ef…2023-01-21 23:32:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021473 << jeez, these are all unfounded suppositions. folx who enscribed themselves into market were the first to struggle with collapse of meaning, considering the immense popularity of pelevin with "office plankton".
7c6eabcd555bf7e2…555bf7e2…2022-10-31 19:19:43 asciilifeform recalls own crackpot quest at uni to get profs interested in 'p2p cellphone' proj. came, naively, with figures, arguments involving 1/d^2 and wattages, etc.
a3c9f7745ef8439e…486e47ab…2022-12-09 03:34:50 <lobbes> lol. In retrospect I suppose this is precisely the use case for a virtualenv. Ah well, it was still an enjoyable exercise
aeeab794aa8f4063…f044043d…2022-12-14 19:18:55 <signpost> probably the sovereign who does so doesn't even need bitcoin.
307c14a7ecaafd75…be329d4f…2022-12-29 00:24:12 <phf> signpost, that's a rendering issue, rather than essential property of the log experience. the question with essential inline is how does best case rendering of the log looks and behaves.
c5503f62eb1e3718…4da32626…2023-02-20 18:29:12 signpost using zsa moonlander currently, love the thing.
44e493f90c684c29…0c684c29…2023-01-18 20:18:47 <asciilifeform> modern 20sumthing can't afford, lol, house with garage.
8fe6303497179db9…00c43acf…2023-01-21 23:33:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:42:03 asciilifeform[5]: ( the folx who 'enscribed themselves into market(tm)(r)' not, by any indication, sat and suffered with existential questions, were far too busy snorting coke )
268eda3e7c6eabcd…7c6eabcd…2022-10-31 19:20:10 <asciilifeform> 'why pay at&t when 24 outta 25 of yer callers are within 1km'
43464cc4aeeab794…aa8f4063…2022-12-14 19:19:19 <asciilifeform> witness the ~0 interest of crowned heads in bitcoinism.
845e1f5b307c14a7…307c14a7…2022-12-29 00:24:29 <phf> if i were for example using some kind of shared and distributed Word system, i would have an option to add an image to text, and expect that image to be an essential element of the document reading experience. `<graph of behavior> as you can see from graph, blah blah`
f3fc186344e493f9…01f56bfd…2023-01-18 20:18:53 <phf> men build, because they are compelled to first, and there's money in it second. and then suddenly they don't and your whole culture is SBF types, but without the connections
f23f387e8fe63034…97179db9…2023-01-21 23:33:11 <phf> i think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of ontologic systems, and the implications of their collapse
bee0dc4615a64fb8…15a64fb8…2023-09-05 15:44:10 <shinohai> I started tinkering with making own busybox linux bootstrap, which worx currently, but wanted to incorporate pbuilds into it. Currently using a duct-tape-and-chewing-gum binhost locally (built a fuckton of packages I thought might be useful for own use someday).
f746e762268eda3e…268eda3e…2022-10-31 19:20:43 <asciilifeform> fortunately we dun need to sell pest to committee; itworx(tm) w/out approval of committee..
312321ce43464cc4…43464cc4…2022-12-14 19:19:33 <asciilifeform> (why, when running own kingdom on printolade precisely like washington does)
3a5e31d1845e1f5b…845e1f5b…2022-12-29 00:26:36 <phf> if you were to pick up that word document 20 years later, or if i were to just grab it before i get on a train, i would have identical reading experience. at the same time any external references that i make might or might not be there.
544a21f0f3fc1863…ee829b09…2023-01-18 20:19:16 <signpost> this is what draws me to biological explanations
3f3173dcf23f387e…f23f387e…2023-01-21 23:35:31 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021476 << if your supposition is wrong, so will be your conclusions, but even the chain of conclusions is wrong. one can observe the reality of the past, without attempting or even believing in the possibility of recreating the past in the present.
b1387675bee0dc46…35822157…2023-09-05 15:46:24 <signpost> pentacle torrent -> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b075225228d8e6964bafe30e63b7e6e11d6206c1&dn=pentacle&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80
0370d75df746e762…f746e762…2022-10-31 19:23:54 <asciilifeform> q of whether mechanic (or whoever else) will behave, or think, 'differently' if he dun have to use the tower -- easy to answer 'lolno', but imho 'only gods know', entirely possible that ~some~ -- yes, and interestingly.
2ad65901312321ce…aeeab794…2022-12-14 19:20:02 <signpost> some of those same are piling up gold atm. plenty of interest in sound money, just not at the slave layer.
70ecf072312321ce…312321ce…2022-12-14 19:20:28 <asciilifeform> imho there was (still is, theoretically) useful direction to press, to test orig. hypothesis -- suppose trb worked as well as e.g. warez torrent, from strictly technical pov
afa3cd2f3a5e31d1…3a5e31d1…2022-12-29 00:29:44 <phf> and the flip side of this external references property is that while the document might be talking about linux.iso, it might include screenshots and illustrations from linux.iso experience, it doesn't include linux.iso itself
3837ba539269d50c…eb1e3718…2023-02-20 18:30:05 <phf> oh yeah, also gotta put led strips on all surfaces
12695869544a21f0…44e493f9…2023-01-18 20:19:27 <asciilifeform> phf: correct. they're still 'building' tho -- building sbfware
59ce7bb83f3173dc…8fe63034…2023-01-21 23:36:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:47:59 asciilifeform[5]: observes the obv trend of thinking folx on the net wishing for comeback of old religions (mostly anglo protestantisms, tho also catholicism or, in ru, mass epidemic of 'orthodoxy of central nervous system'(tm)) but imho is interesting cocktail of lulz and unexamined motivatio
1b9cfa48b1387675…b1387675…2023-09-05 15:46:53 <signpost> fired up a build before I packaged it, and looks like it should be good to go.
c6d204bdc72cc036…0747ab80…2022-12-09 03:48:38 <asciilifeform> lobbes: fwiw if a box containing pestron is config'd as rec'd in orig spec (i.e. icmp disabled) yer nmap scan won't work.
1fab9b2c70ecf072…2ad65901…2022-12-14 19:20:37 <signpost> possibly those same have use of BTC if the "multipolar" thing holds a while and chinese don't end up permission-coin-ing world trade.
39146700afa3cd2f…afa3cd2f…2022-12-29 00:33:15 <phf> in this case delivering mechanism mirrors human experience. i get enough information about linux.iso to understand the narrative, but having understood the narrative i can then make decisions about linux.iso (e.g. try and find it, or decide that i don't need it and remove from station)
1d8b7334afa3cd2f…e878604e…2022-12-29 00:39:26 signpost has no problem with defining the log as an infinite scroll of illustrated text
631d95f63837ba53…3837ba53…2023-02-20 18:31:44 <phf> i use freestyle 2 still, because it was cheap to buy a handful at some point
e3ddf83a12695869…544a21f0…2023-01-18 20:20:13 <signpost> at least not dismissable that sperm count has plummeted along this same timeline.
1ee1a40559ce7bb8…4a5ed102…2023-01-22 00:20:36 <asciilifeform> phf: plox to unpack (which supposition)
279c81dd382d765d…382d765d…2022-10-31 19:24:49 <asciilifeform> but in either case it defo aint about 'canhaz twatter but not ban people for selfie in trumpf hat'.
36cecc311fab9b2c…70ecf072…2022-12-14 19:20:41 <asciilifeform> even this, mp wasn't partic. interested in achieving
820951c01d8b7334…1d8b7334…2022-12-29 00:40:05 <signpost> and if so defined, would be unreasonable for one to consider his chain complete without that content
aaa72cebe3ddf83a…12695869…2023-01-18 20:20:53 <asciilifeform> signpost: seems dubious that $magickpollutant would affect entire surface of planet3 to ~same degree and at ~same time
fc5fe9ca1ee1a405…1ee1a405…2023-01-22 00:22:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021485 << afaik struggled in direct inverse proportion to 'how enscribed' (tho we may be disagreeing on basics -- from asciilifeform's pov, mobster who ODs on coke aint 'struggling with meaning of life', the latter imho is strictly intelligentia's 'sport')
64c0d9cbf3985803…f3985803…2023-09-05 17:38:52 <shinohai> *sigh* rtorrent doesn't seem to like this torrent, 0% after almost 2 hours.
df4daaf1279c81dd…279c81dd…2022-10-31 19:25:07 <asciilifeform> if about anyffin, is about other things, yet not known.
600b0f595fd18245…5fd18245…2022-12-09 03:49:42 <asciilifeform> a key design principle is that a third party oughtn't be able to distinguish a pest box from an unused ip.
bc14046236cecc31…36cecc31…2022-12-14 19:21:36 <asciilifeform> for that matter, 'btc economy' how-to aint any kinda mystery.
149674d26a8515c6…6a8515c6…2022-12-29 00:39:22 <phf> this is probably somehow complementary to the whole rich text thread from some time ago
4126e49a820951c0…820951c0…2022-12-29 00:40:28 <signpost> (and just looking over the images feature of btcbase log, it's *sad* they aren't there)
07871e62b198fe85…b198fe85…2023-02-20 18:32:15 <phf> but they now have "advantage 360" which is a split version of their original hand "bowl" shaped advantage
14869615aaa72ceb…f3fc1863…2023-01-18 20:21:01 <phf> asciilifeform, guy in question put a large prefab garage on his tiny chunk of property, built "rooms" into the top corners of the garage, kitchen on the first floor, and before "what kind of anti social kazynski type", has wife and kids all living in same
1d784587fc5fe9ca…59ce7bb8…2023-01-22 00:23:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 18:33:27 phf[deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021473 << jeez, these are all unfounded suppositions. folx who enscribed themselves into market were the first to struggle with collapse of meaning, considering the immense popularity of pelevin with "office plankton".
a60fef88df4daaf1…df4daaf1…2022-10-31 19:26:16 <asciilifeform> ( and most of these, likely 'small' and individually unsexy -- canhaz p2p warez a la early 2000s, for instance. canhaz www hosting not ddosable. etc )
b49d9f8f600b0f59…600b0f59…2022-12-09 03:51:38 <asciilifeform> (assuming it aint hosting anyffin else that sits on a port)
44f38ca8bc140462…e98e1c41…2022-12-14 19:21:36 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-14 asciilifeform: operate, if you will, 'half-duplex' economy.
34df9e6b149674d2…3684acef…2022-12-29 01:03:12 <signpost> yes. text formatting questions come in too, if going with the illustrated text definition of log.
01c1ad684126e49a…4126e49a…2022-12-29 00:44:13 <signpost> isn't at all clear to me that it's not useful to use pest concepts to publish albums, say, though.
dac1e56007871e62…07871e62…2023-02-20 18:35:56 <phf> next step with ascii's setup is to put it on hydralics, wire it into videogame
89e871ae14869615…e3ddf83a…2023-01-18 20:21:16 <signpost> why? leaded fuel was burned all over the planet, as one example.
a91e0e6b1d784587…fc5fe9ca…2023-01-22 00:23:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021482 << loox interesting, will read
95e3fa8ba60fef88…a60fef88…2022-10-31 19:26:43 <asciilifeform> even 'www that doesn't fall down when author dies' is imho a serious win.
1e86d0a644f38ca8…0dea1cb6…2022-12-14 19:22:14 <asciilifeform> but nooo, erryone simply wants to 'ride hodl lift'
0dea1cb63891f429…3891f429…2022-12-14 19:21:50 <asciilifeform> not even req's shaheeds. only folx with some modicum of surplus.
5e17c6d134df9e6b…34df9e6b…2022-12-29 01:03:24 <signpost> or they don't, but they at least peek in through the opening.
bffd8299dac1e560…c14a9340…2023-02-20 18:36:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023903 << not in the default config (tho may not be obv. from the photo)
48b28a3f89e871ae…14869615…2023-01-18 20:21:17 <phf> i'd be surprised if he payed more then 50$k for both house and land
2ba32878a91e0e6b…1d784587…2023-01-22 00:24:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 18:23:24 phf[awt|deedbot]: if you want to slog through a very extensive historic account of the role of both religion and "magic" in the life of englishmen circa 17th century, i highly recommend https://www.abebooks.com/9780140600155/Religion-Decline-Magic-Thomas-Keith-0140600159/plp
d5a987a519023351…64c0d9cb…2023-09-05 18:06:27 <shinohai> So far no dice, might hafta try a different client.
f532f8a695e3fa8b…92215f28…2022-10-31 19:27:25 <phf> i feel like we've had this particular subthread before, multiple times, and then, like now, you've misunderstood my point
69c355506354182e…6354182e…2022-12-09 17:43:44 <asciilifeform> awt, phf, signpost , jonsykkel , et al : predraft of 0xfa updated to give chained-multipart cmds own coades, as discussed recently.
22a28d021e86d0a6…1fab9b2c…2022-12-14 19:22:32 <signpost> entire stack's still worth building as post-collapse tool, not of everything, but of fiat empires, which can indeed happen.
7e15c6ef5e17c6d1…5e17c6d1…2022-12-29 01:04:08 <signpost> "getting enough information to decide" is a decent rule of thumb in the direction of which might be a clearer definition of log though.
25545a96bffd8299…92d48c81…2023-02-20 18:37:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 13:28:37 phf[awt|deedbot]: my main concern would be with hand blood circulation, since it looks like hands not just above heart, but even above head
b3aa4eb248b28a3f…89e871ae…2023-01-18 20:21:40 <signpost> have we paid back all the debt incurred from a few generations of lead poisoning?
4a850e632ba32878…a91e0e6b…2023-01-22 00:23:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021479 << this is impossible to dispute as given ( tho could similarly say, today just as then, 'everyone' 'covered' )
903a7052d5a987a5…d5a987a5…2023-09-05 18:21:07 <shinohai> [02:18:59 PM] tracker responded OK, returned=1 seeds=0 peers=1 interval=30:04 > udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80
[02:19:04 PM] starting DHT search
[02:20:16 PM] completed DHT search, found 0 peers
621f3a36f532f8a6…95e3fa8b…2022-10-31 19:28:10 <asciilifeform> imho understood, and agreed, w/ phf's point (and then also)
e037111569c35550…69c35550…2022-12-09 17:44:13 <asciilifeform> nuffin else changed since last announced rev.
bc7d951522a28d02…22a28d02…2022-12-14 19:23:08 signpost just holds no delusions about coming to power himself in such a scenario
0d11f59e22a28d02…1e86d0a6…2022-12-14 19:23:21 <asciilifeform> the correct time to build up btc economy is ~before~ ~nobody has a surplus and focuses on 'naked survive' imho
3f481e187e15c6ef…6a8515c6…2022-12-29 01:17:30 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-01-07#1598563
875f393f25545a96…dac1e560…2023-02-20 18:37:06 <phf> photo definitely makes it seem like top of the keyboard is on the same plane as head
1e352c3bb3aa4eb2…aaa72ceb…2023-01-18 20:22:44 <asciilifeform> phf: where asciilifeform lives, you either pay the diff in bribes/permits or city bulldozes the thing & fines the mega-builder. at one time thought 'fascism' but imho moar nuanced -- in usa, no other way to keep homo-methlabicus outta yer street than imposed price floors
941bc08c4a850e63…2ba32878…2023-01-22 00:24:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 18:21:21 phf[awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021448 << you don't have to "suspect" anything, there's plenty of research on subj. "everyone" covered comes with huge asterisks, because of the nature of both evertyone and covered, but for the purposes of the point i was making it was
33d1a415903a7052…07c33cbd…2023-09-05 18:34:26 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-05#1030269 << that was me, i'm seeding it now
db161896621f3a36…621f3a36…2022-10-31 19:29:36 <asciilifeform> 'spoon tunnel at best only goes to next barrack'
18534460e0371115…e0371115…2022-12-09 17:45:16 <asciilifeform> ( chained-multi nao carries 288-byte chunk -- zapped 'mark' and 'z' fields , as not req'd nao; broadcasttextm nao coad 0x06, directtextm -- 0x07. )
8285f31cbc7d9515…0d11f59e…2022-12-14 19:24:30 <asciilifeform> work on oddball new tech req's material surplus + leisure.
59ed77323f481e18…fe8d6742…2022-12-29 01:17:34 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-01-07 mircea_popescu: phf illuminated schematics with tits seems like a winning strat.
77ff4904875f393f…bffd8299…2023-02-20 18:37:09 <asciilifeform> phf: many of the similar items on the market do feature hydraulics etc., asciilifeform avoided ( wat-do when the actuators die and vendor long kaput? ) -- this one's just a buncha aluminum + mattress
4e049ecd941bc08c…4a850e63…2023-01-22 00:26:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021487 << not certain that ~anyone~ properly understands the implications (e.g. did the original roman 'family gods' thing weaken and with its weakinging, the republic fell (as described in 'u-turn') ? or the reverse..? )
bc8ac2b233d1a415…fcafff7b…2023-09-05 18:35:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-05 13:52:33 signpost: I've seeded 100% to somebody
ed922b19db161896…db161896…2022-10-31 19:30:01 <asciilifeform> and prolly can bet on this, and not lose.
05cff71218534460…18534460…2022-12-09 20:03:16 <phf> u.s. is all kinds of fucked, i've discovered a new vector of fucked. medical services out in deplorables land is utter trash
c6a1e7c677ff4904…875f393f…2023-02-20 18:38:39 <phf> of course main use of hydraulics is to position you vertically so you can just walk off the thing rather than climb off
9aabb2ab88597266…1e352c3b…2023-01-18 20:23:14 <asciilifeform> signpost: they were there in '70s already neh
86004cbe4e049ecd…941bc08c…2023-01-22 00:27:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 18:34:25 phf[deedbot|awt]: i think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of ontologic systems, and the implications of their collapse
1caf1279bc8ac2b2…903a7052…2023-09-05 19:31:27 <shinohai> Thx billymg, finally grabbed it - weirdness was I could not run akris + torrent on same machine for whatever reason. xD
0e925d7bed922b19…ed922b19…2022-10-31 19:32:40 asciilifeform if knew how to instead invent recipe for folx to live on sunlight, and build house in parallel dimension away from reich -- would work on ~that~
ded14de005cff712…05cff712…2022-12-09 20:04:25 <phf> primary care doctors don't exist anymore, they are all ancient, and cultivate a roster of equally ancient patients. everyone new gets deferred to "nurse practioners"
a4536ded9022900c…8285f31c…2022-12-14 19:31:14 <asciilifeform> recipe 'make sumthing useful in yer spare time; sell it for btc' impeded by, imho : 1) the difficulty of making anyffin useful enuff such that sumbody'd be willing to part w/ btc for it ;
1c3b782ac6a1e7c6…77ff4904…2023-02-20 18:38:52 <asciilifeform> phf: unfortunate camera angle. 'kbd above head' would be agony, dun think could last 5min in that pose
c9ff193e9aabb2ab…88597266…2023-01-18 20:23:32 <signpost> yes, and what are the effects of hormone disruption across the generations?
0c953120bd6d79ab…33d1a415…2023-09-05 18:34:48 <billymg> 0 ratio though, so one one's connected to me yet
be6f00e60e925d7b…72e20f2a…2022-10-31 19:32:41 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-14 14:20:17 asciilifeform: “Well, do you have another globe?”
0071c2f9a4536ded…a4536ded…2022-12-14 19:31:22 <asciilifeform> 2) the difficulty of coming up with btc
0261a74cc9ff193e…48b28a3f…2023-01-18 20:24:04 <phf> asciilifeform, well, yeah, i know where you live, my point is that you're measuring rest of country by your own bugmen (no offense, i mean location wise) standards. my question is "yeah, we all know bugmen are sbfing in dc suburbs, but what about rest of country?"
a3464b5cbe6f00e6…0e925d7b…2022-10-31 19:35:27 <asciilifeform> in ye olde sovok, folx spent considerable elbow grease on 'how to illicitly print copies of xyz', sat with typewriters and carbon paper, ran over9000 b&w photos, etc. and in the end who the fuck cares. today anyone can buy xerox, but why.
60510173f81c4e4f…18534460…2022-12-09 20:04:54 <asciilifeform> 'colt '45 health insurance and retirement co.'
d788ad160071c2f9…0071c2f9…2022-12-14 19:31:40 <asciilifeform> 3) difficulty of transacting, operating dysfunctional softs, evading censors & snoops
e3a89668e2aff229…1c3b782a…2023-02-20 18:41:49 <asciilifeform> re split kbds, asciilifeform never liked'em ( largely cuz nobody ever made one outta bucklings springs and with left-side-fkeys, lol )
fb3fece40261a74c…9aabb2ab…2023-01-18 20:24:13 asciilifeform not necessarily rejects the 'bio-defectives' hypothesis, but not sees obvious evidence for 'obv tru', most of the sad folx walking around aint in any obv way biologically defective, are simply inhabiting remnants of broken civ
bc2f9d3f0261a74c…c9ff193e…2023-01-18 20:24:14 <signpost> young man's whole body forms in plastic soup. produces damaged and fewer sperm. loop continues.
4e9bd0d4caba76e3…caba76e3…2023-01-22 00:28:11 <asciilifeform> ^ if anyone has decent scan, plox to post
89df66c3f56011cb…f56011cb…2023-09-08 08:01:45 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030213 << ya, thanks for the confirmation of my suspicions, I'm going in to get a proper fit as apart of another trip this weekend
77228f6f60510173…f81c4e4f…2022-12-09 20:05:18 <signpost> even here in texfrancisco we were on a 2wk wait list to pop out the new bean.
309701acd788ad16…d788ad16…2022-12-14 19:32:27 <asciilifeform> (3) was/is addressable, if anyone gave enuff shit, and asciilifeform burned MBs of bw describing how (and even supplying, gratis, various moving parts for subj)
86b7f75ae3a89668…e3a89668…2023-02-20 18:44:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023917 << some folx report headache getting in/out but not noticed this (after coupla tries, learned how to do it w/out even raising the kbd fixture)
847db4aebc2f9d3f…fb3fece4…2023-01-18 20:24:49 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform almost entirely relies on phf's description of what 'non-bug usa' countryside is like these days
ea7bbd4189df66c3…bc8ac2b2…2023-09-08 08:03:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 09:54:14 billymg: crtdaydreams: they should be snug, almost to the point of being slightly uncomfortable, the leather will then stretch as you break them in
8d125cac3320673f…3320673f…2022-10-31 19:36:12 asciilifeform at one pt wanted to reconstruct usenet, naively thinking that the folx who used to live there would somehow come back
b630916c77228f6f…60510173…2022-12-09 20:05:31 <asciilifeform> dunthink this is confined to 'deplorable land' tho
c43aefd2309701ac…309701ac…2022-12-14 19:32:54 <asciilifeform> (2) could be addressable if 'moneybags' weren't cocaine-addled morons as a class
a27f120286b7f75a…25545a96…2023-02-20 18:45:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 13:39:54 phf[awt|deedbot]: of course main use of hydraulics is to position you vertically so you can just walk off the thing rather than climb off
a61f4121847db4ae…847db4ae…2023-01-18 20:25:04 <asciilifeform> so far have 'whatcha building? meth lab'
4180332fe6e2ad13…e6e2ad13…2023-01-22 00:36:07 <asciilifeform> (and -- to what degree is even possible to analyze effects of 'meaning collapsed' when and where at same time 'paycheque collapsed' and 'law collapsed' ? )
71eff9e2ea7bbd41…89df66c3…2023-09-13 07:47:02 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: what's the barrier for a sputtering rig for you?
a936514b8d125cac…8d125cac…2022-10-31 19:36:42 <asciilifeform> do ideas & conversations matter? nfi. possibly -- not
bf01b187a27f1202…86b7f75a…2023-02-20 18:45:05 <asciilifeform> is approx. as 'hard' as getting in/out of auto
65f99d5da61f4121…bc2f9d3f…2023-01-18 20:25:51 signpost would expect that nature gave men a huge amount of sperm with reshuffled dna to reach as far as possible into fitness as measured by the struggle to the egg
eb1716754180332f…4180332f…2023-01-22 00:40:51 <asciilifeform> bulk of what passes for humans not even detectably cares about 'ontological system' even in vaguest sense.
1804753e71eff9e2…71eff9e2…2023-09-13 08:37:27 crtdaydreams interested in the challenges of UHV mentioned [here][http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2018-04-30#1806749]
eedbad33a936514b…a936514b…2022-10-31 19:37:04 <asciilifeform> then -- maybe the ants will build moar interesting civ, where they do.
5ad2e3cdd7dc3797…ded14de0…2022-12-09 20:05:38 <phf> correct, nps are there to basically prescribe you pills, because that's the only thing they know how to do. but there's all kinds of kabuki around the pill prescription.
8a10ef83b4d91d43…e091c2cc…2022-12-14 19:35:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018465 << that's my point about the hodl culture
9f27de2cbf01b187…e2aff229…2023-02-20 18:47:27 <phf> it was mostly a joke, i'm a strong proponent of dynamic sitting, i.e. i'm sitting/standing on a dentist (the doctor's not the patient's) at the moment, because it allows me to walk-think primarily, but obviously helps prevent spinal issues
82c9591f65f99d5d…0261a74c…2023-01-18 20:25:58 <phf> 80% old people, 19% meth labs, 1% men building garages and all know each other in that 1% group
cdceb33ceb171675…eb171675…2023-01-22 00:43:41 <asciilifeform> on top of this, troo state religion of ye olde su was... ww2, rather than marx (and its ontological collapse directly went with the aging & death of the generation who saw live germans, and began well prior to gorby, and running through its final gasps even today)
a41345970e4a0943…8e614e47…2023-09-10 04:55:06 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-31#1030198 << fwiw I've a small mirror of pubkeys started; will add to it over time
339c65e91804753e…68e40cce…2023-09-13 08:39:22 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-04-30 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doubtful, for same reason that electron microscope has not become any cheaper. high vacuum system is a bitch, and exactly same bitch today as in 1930.
f54e5fef1804753e…1804753e…2023-09-13 09:17:28 <crtdaydreams> read logz, I think I get the scope of the issue
b8c35a4eeedbad33…eedbad33…2022-10-31 19:42:07 <asciilifeform> the basic q imho is open q, of whether there is a layer of human remaining beneath the 'but pray tell'.., that could be excavated.
5139f04f5ad2e3cd…77228f6f…2022-12-09 20:05:52 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=%22at+any+price%22&chan=all
1960ceb98a10ef83…b686673f…2022-12-14 19:36:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 14:32:23 asciilifeform[6]: recipe 'make sumthing useful in yer spare time; sell it for btc' impeded by, imho : 1) the difficulty of making anyffin useful enuff such that sumbody'd be willing to part w/ btc for it ;
f41ccd3882c9591f…65f99d5d…2023-01-18 20:26:11 <signpost> fewer sperm gives worse chance for a good reach
2ed3050ca4134597…ea7bbd41…2023-09-10 04:57:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-31 13:13:29 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: the deedbot www was also the go-to place to fetch pubkeys quickly.
51f4fcfdf54e5fef…f54e5fef…2023-09-13 09:20:15 crtdaydreams observed that building a sputtering gun is not necessarily an extremely expensive endeavour, nor necessarily difficult
6fe4c199b8c35a4e…0a915ca3…2022-10-31 19:43:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 13:48:49 phf[awt]: "we can have a 8ns multihop to a DC in frederick" "but prey tell mr babage, can i watch comcast sportsball come season?"
91863a2a5139f04f…5ad2e3cd…2022-12-09 20:06:19 <phf> like they dress like real humans^W^Wdoctors, and also pretend to be doctors, but they are otherwise totally useless. they waste your time with a ritual "i'm going to doctor you real good now"
41440a611960ceb9…8a10ef83…2022-12-14 19:36:04 <phf> speculation kicking in before functional economy destroyed even the potential for the economy
be920da9f31f83f6…bf01b187…2023-02-20 18:48:14 <asciilifeform> phf: for asciilifeform , 'dynamic' consists of getting up & pacing around regularly (not deliberately 'medicinal', but simply habit, 'for thinking')
99b164d2f41ccd38…a61f4121…2023-01-18 20:26:44 <asciilifeform> purportedly, the meth people even sometimes innovate, come up with new syntheses (or revive oldies from ww2)
ec3c53717d7c81b7…d8ad14d1…2023-01-22 00:45:59 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-12-01 asciilifeform: recalls burial of grandfather, with orchestra, rifle salute, etc. and vague notion that various 'changes' all about are indeed connected with the disappearance of that gen
5618d72a51f4fcfd…c61333cc…2023-09-14 01:08:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-13#1030303 << same as for errything else : time.
4da07db86fe4c199…f532f8a6…2022-10-31 19:50:30 <phf> information is suddenly infinitely cheap, while sorting through that information is infinitely expensive
f46e5c9291863a2a…91863a2a…2022-12-09 20:07:50 <phf> i'm subscribed to two nps, the good old boy hick np, who charges less and is otherwise down to earth (no masks required!11) and shiny waiting room np who pretends to be serious business and otherwise loves the science. charges more of course, for that "city" experience
0b82dd7541440a61…41440a61…2022-12-14 19:36:56 <phf> and consider that tmsr was extreme take on btc implications the effect that it had on us, necessarily had a more pronounced effect on elsewhere
e267c1c5be920da9…f31f83f6…2023-02-20 18:48:17 <phf> so this kind of couch experience in my mind absolutely requires a hydralic stand up assist, as a kind of mobility scooter superflous addition
3710785799b164d2…82c9591f…2023-01-18 20:26:46 <phf> probably with that later 1% is that it's mostly yoboy material, "souped up polaris" rather than e.g. precision lathe
4f3e7f1aec3c5371…3f3173dc…2023-01-22 01:04:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021495 << but so is your original "suspicion". the extent to which religion (and magic) were part of society is well documented from primary sources. most of it is implications from the kind of political, social, judicial that existed. some o i5)/qKׁE2#E
927567a25618d72a…339c65e9…2023-09-14 01:10:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-13 03:48:57 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: asciilifeform: what's the barrier for a sputtering rig for you?
b40b0f43f46e5c92…f46e5c92…2022-12-09 20:09:34 <phf> so i needed two pills issued, a simple pill and a slightly more complicated pill. i've been prescribed those pills by real doctors, after waiting something like 2 months for appointment. i love visiting those doctors, because we end up spending extra time chatting about interesting ^_>EU ]j:OP-쪪VA
6617909b0b82dd75…0b82dd75…2022-12-14 19:40:45 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018437 << yes, ftr i find the text to be entirely coherent. i think your personal animocity towards diana clouds your perception of her texts
44da2e7ce267c1c5…be920da9…2023-02-20 18:48:43 <asciilifeform> some of these 'desks' in fact have electric lifts etc
daad261f4f3e7f1a…4f3e7f1a…2023-01-22 01:04:38 <phf> f it is first person accounts (from believers and faux-belivers and non-believers) i5)/qKׁE2#E
3a82764a4f3e7f1a…86004cbe…2023-01-22 01:06:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 19:24:55 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021479 << this is impossible to dispute as given ( tho could similarly say, today just as then, 'everyone' 'covered' )
62b18e940d7e844b…1caf1279…2023-09-12 18:16:29 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-30#1030166 << In attempt to assist with this on the pentacle side of things, I mirrored it all here: http://btc.info.gf/devel/pentacle/
4ae2a10b927567a2…03070ff0…2023-09-14 17:23:14 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-12#1030297 << nice! thanks for doing that.
c59d5ecefe12c115…fe12c115…2022-10-31 19:53:38 <asciilifeform> with firehouse of '1e10 monkeys' -- yes, infinitely.
fa8708aab40b0f43…b40b0f43…2022-12-09 20:09:34 <phf> , non doctor related things, in the "holy shit, you're a human!" format ^_>EU ]j:OP-쪪VA
eb4ae67d6617909b…1960ceb9…2022-12-14 19:41:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 14:10:14 asciilifeform[6]: phf: upstack, was this the diana piece in question ?
bf70369c44da2e7c…e267c1c5…2023-02-20 18:50:27 <phf> i mean what else is one to do once the immediately accessible cheetos supply runs out!!
b0be78963109630d…f41ccd38…2023-01-18 20:28:39 <signpost> so perhaps lead poisoning takes a few swings at fertility and then the plastics take over.
3553b5f63a82764a…daad261f…2023-01-22 01:05:43 <phf> you can easily compare the nature and extent of coverage, and realize that it's infinitely reduced so as to be non-existent, comparatively
68e40cce62b18e94…2ed3050c…2023-09-12 18:17:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-30 18:58:14 signpost: whelp, I have apparently lost that server. while I have my software projects handy, I did not have a recent backup of that database. couple of (albeit quiet) years of data lost.
847497c24ae2a10b…927567a2…2023-09-14 17:25:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-12 14:17:52 shinohai[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-30#1030166 << In attempt to assist with this on the pentacle side of things, I mirrored it all here: http://btc.info.gf/devel/pentacle/
6eaf0bb3fa8708aa…fa8708aa…2022-12-09 20:10:24 <phf> but i don't want to wait 2 weeks ("sorry, shortes we can get you in", i guess beats 2 months) for pills, so lets go ask hick np
737b5332fa8708aa…9cf62f23…2022-12-09 20:13:44 signpost knows someone who needed an antifungal and just ordered primate veterinary after similar idiot thwarting.
2fd998f5fa8708aa…b16350f4…2022-12-09 20:14:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: in recent yrs 'veterinary' vendors tightened screws (e.g. at one time could get antibiotic 'for aquarium fish' for coupla $. nao -- rarity and over9000 fakes)
b5740f9ceb4ae67d…b4d91d43…2022-12-14 19:41:52 <asciilifeform> phf: fwiw asciilifeform rather liked diana. (who was afaik the only 1 to e.g. actually read all of, at the time, ffa, and even wrote 'crib sheets' for others)
57160c7fb0be7896…99b164d2…2023-01-18 20:29:17 <asciilifeform> phf: prolly there are , let's say, 7 people in usa building electrolytic milling machines ( an asciilifeform attempt fwiw ) in garages, but they're all 'hiki' and will never meet
e79ee1533553b5f6…7d7c81b7…2023-01-22 01:06:05 <asciilifeform> that 'part of soc.' -- obv phakt. but not all the commonly supposed implications ('fundamental to ontology', 'it weakened, and with it errything fell apart') necessarily follow
07014fc468e40cce…62b18e94…2023-09-12 18:17:19 <shinohai> The tarball is exactly same as torrent contents, but the link builds/vtree at bottom of page will contain some personal pbuilds that others may or may not find useful.
53bf56c826005a5b…4da07db8…2022-10-31 19:54:04 <phf> i need to patch a hole in my jeep, should i be using bondo body filler, then primer, then paint. or fiberglass w/ resin? should i even bother at all or just coat with linseed oil? i have 1000 youtube videos that answer YES, NO to previous questions in all the possible permutations.
a0bc13c16eaf0bb3…6eaf0bb3…2022-12-09 20:11:17 <phf> go check CVS "sorry you only have one prescription" "but there should be to" "sorry one only". so the hick mp manages to fail at one thing she's any good at
c303c9e12fd998f5…1e65aec8…2022-12-09 20:14:52 <phf> instead of going to your local hick np, you can talk to an np in buttfuck, TX, who's got a klicking sound in the name, and he'll do the absolute minimum kabuki required by law, on account of having a clicking sound in his name, he doesn't pretend to legitimacy, is there to write you a script.
ef5a5550b5740f9c…b5740f9c…2022-12-14 19:42:18 <asciilifeform> imho diana simply picked wrong ship to go down with.
27c2652d8d8124bc…8d8124bc…2023-02-20 18:51:15 asciilifeform fwiw is 1 of those folx who hesitates to have even glass of water in torture room, much less food
fbf9b185e79ee153…e79ee153…2023-01-22 01:06:42 <asciilifeform> for that mattter, not clear to asciilifeform that 'vacuum of religion' is even possible -- old ones always appear to be replaced with new
2efad7a507014fc4…a4134597…2023-09-13 00:45:24 <lobbes> has anyone tried bootstrapping pentacle on aarch64? I bought one of those pinebooks and was experimenting putting a pentacle environment on it
e4868dd353bf56c8…26005a5b…2022-10-31 19:55:03 asciilifeform with steelshaving-laden epoxy, then paint, but 'not loox new' fwiw
3ad7571ba0bc13c1…a0bc13c1…2022-12-09 20:11:50 <phf> but she checked my heart and blood pressure! and ask me if i smoke daily or once a month!
9af9d1b2ef5a5550…9022900c…2022-12-14 19:42:31 <signpost> the women obeyed, which in-world is precisely what they were commanded.
8f1e2cc5c067f378…b0be7896…2023-01-18 20:29:34 signpost subscribes to the mp-esque notion that the tournament of fucking is the force behind human will.
901d45c9fbf9b185…3553b5f6…2023-01-22 01:11:05 <phf> who are these people who are making "commonly supposed implications" that you're arguing against?
0d645f9e2efad7a5…2efad7a5…2023-09-13 00:45:47 <lobbes> however, debootstrap appears to be failing when trying to chroot into the filesystem it creates. Error for reference (btw ty shinohai for providing this pastebin on your www): https://btc.info.gf/paste/0ccc75
b9d6840de4868dd3…53bf56c8…2022-10-31 19:56:21 <phf> my meat wot's answer is "rust is but a manefestation of the divine will, cover up its shame, and drive that sucker until the frame separateth from the body"
63040aea3ad7571b…5139f04f…2022-12-09 20:12:35 <signpost> did she do the knee hammer thing? folks love it when they get the knee hammer.
faecb2753c69ffdc…2fd998f5…2022-12-09 20:15:37 <asciilifeform> mega-popular iirc. there are at least a dozen of these (occasionally usg shutters'em when they start prescribing morphine etc but short of this, generally leaves'em alone)
f88ab02f8f1e2cc5…c067f378…2023-01-18 20:30:04 <asciilifeform> ( whereas if you aint a 'hiki' yet, will bias to problems other folx who randomly comprise yer social circle will find interesting, i.e. that 'souped polaris' )
a876e002901d45c9…fbf9b185…2023-01-22 01:13:06 <asciilifeform> phf & signpost (unless asciilifeform misunderstands yest. thrd) and # of 'i'm atheist, sure, but folx oughta believe or civ goes to shit' folx on net, e.g. locklin)
c9d41ca00d645f9e…0d645f9e…2023-09-13 00:45:57 <lobbes> I've very little experience with chroot, but from my initial research it seems that this is because debootstrap is trying to chroot into a amd64 filesystem, whereas my pinebook is aarch64. I'll abandon pentacle-on-pinebook for now if so, but wanted to see if I'm missing something simple here
2cbba6865e18fb52…b6d5e7b0…2023-09-14 17:41:49 asciilifeform roasting in commercial hell and prolly will roast at least until nov.
8e553bb3b9d6840d…e4868dd3…2022-10-31 19:56:30 <asciilifeform> or, moar recently, 'furnace lights then gas turns off'. forums: 'clean flame sensor rod'. it's clean. turns out, poor ground connect, thing is meant to conduct 120v via fire to ground. but no helpful forum crib sheet, had to infer from physical principles lol
b16350f463040aea…d7dc3797…2022-12-09 20:12:44 <asciilifeform> this afaik sop nao for # of yrs. to the point where many usa folx skip straight to 'order pill from india' (if had the fortune of somehow discovering 'which pill' needed) and pray to satan that it won't vanish at customs
b95d02d5faecb275…3c69ffdc…2022-12-09 20:16:28 <signpost> if I could figure out where to be gone to, I'd be gone
eb03c26bf88ab02f…3109630d…2023-01-18 20:30:49 <phf> signpost, could also be because we no longer slonk dozen raw eggs every morning., so i am at a point of http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020794
f9567a62f88ab02f…f88ab02f…2023-01-18 20:31:04 <asciilifeform> signpost: not even necessarily wrong, but has built-in bomb where 'you get moar of the thing yer metric is for', e.g. the proliferation of 'garage innovators' in how to 'pick up chix quickly' )
e3dd93e3a876e002…c99c98f7…2023-01-22 01:13:37 <signpost> nope, I've said many times that revival isn't possible, including in most recent thread.
7b1ee5bd8e553bb3…8e553bb3…2022-10-31 19:57:05 <asciilifeform> 'best magician cannot pull rabbit from hat unless there is a rabbit in the hat' etc
7dc58cd4b95d02d5…faecb275…2022-12-09 20:16:49 <asciilifeform> 'does the klein bottle have an outside'(tm)
7efe00d9403cbd51…6617909b…2022-12-14 19:45:49 <phf> that reading is too postmodern for my taste, where we condermn people for their beliefs and alliegences. kind of like bringing up that someone's nazi before a conversation with that person even has a chance to take place. early tmsr could be accused of mp apologism, by somebody lik )H>J WR(x| K7ҋ
e02aa5bad0864629…188a01a2…2023-02-20 19:10:13 <awt> moar joe kent: https://twitter.com/joekent16jan19/status/1627707387133202432
0e69f1aeeb03c26b…a769e335…2023-01-18 20:32:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:04:36 phf[deedbot]: but i find all kinds of questions unanswered, like why rhodesia, how does information velocity factor into this, what's the essence of wokeism, how does "cellphone in every pocket" factor into this, why open borders, why modern holywood, why no "build in garage" culture, etc.
3fc3d985f9567a62…8f1e2cc5…2023-01-18 20:31:48 <signpost> phf: yep only posing one factor among many here. apocalypse is the superlative mess.
d82f42aad715a4e7…d715a4e7…2023-09-14 17:46:16 <signpost> I got some time while traveling to wrap occ in more tests, finding and squashing mistakes in the encode/decode algo impl.
191f277d7b1ee5bd…b9d6840d…2022-10-31 19:58:14 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah millions of those, most jsut left unanswered. is all this science "better" than a local elder giving you maybe bad advice (make sure you put onion in your varnish!), but also giving you the peace of mind that you probably made a decend enough decision :>
1e65aec89cf62f23…3ad7571b…2022-12-09 20:13:17 <phf> aye, and that gets my to the point, the "us is fucked" part. telemedicine!
3048665c7dc58cd4…c303c9e1…2022-12-09 20:17:07 <phf> asciilifeform, i've discovered this wonderful world on account of not being able to easily travel to russia this winter. so my yearly "fix every possible medical issues for $1k" ritual is thwarted, and i've discovered that everything's fucked
2a1834de7efe00d9…7efe00d9…2022-12-14 19:45:49 <phf> e kako, even though our positions were internally consistent. how much validity there is to the position ought to be explored separate )H>J WR(x| K7ҋ
c4c30da03fc3d985…f9567a62…2023-01-18 20:32:30 <asciilifeform> phf: imho mp nailed 'essence of wokism' when described thought pattern 'clinton & greenspun get mansion and private jet for having a pulse, why shouldn't i'. pre-20th c there was a religious 'drm' to keep a lid on this, then defunkt
098166350726934c…0726934c…2023-01-22 01:14:01 <signpost> question is what was in the slot, nature of slot, etc
9ad0a22b191f277d…7b1ee5bd…2022-10-31 19:59:10 <asciilifeform> often enuff, lacking the shaman with onion, stuck with empirical method.
deed5d942a1834de…d368ae93…2022-12-14 19:49:02 <signpost> larp only assignable in retrospect anyway. maybe some other timeline we're all sitting at the first congress of tmsr.
5d6bb4e6f7791e94…f7791e94…2023-02-20 19:12:19 <asciilifeform> ( who's kent ? wat newz lul is in ohio ? )
cccfac96c4c30da0…eb03c26b…2023-01-18 20:34:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-18#1020846 << 7 people building e.m. machines is only relevant to this conversation if they are tail end, of 1000 people building lathes, 10'000 people building replacement rear suspension to their offroading cars, etc. otherwise they are just ra +SC2Ql~q^ܔA {`m hwz
f3bfadff09816635…a876e002…2023-01-22 01:14:08 <asciilifeform> right. but 'whether revive possible' is separate q
a14e25019ad0a22b…191f277d…2022-10-31 19:59:21 <phf> i mean, usenet was not much better in this respect, invtented topical flamewars. there's at least two men, right this very second, still connected to usenet through either google forums or a paid service, having a epoxy VS fiberglass debate
3ffb52af3788bbed…3788bbed…2022-12-09 20:20:25 <asciilifeform> and erryone knows 'usa -- medically fucked' but even the most mundane household repair co. fucked. asciilifeform spent month+ chasing down 'why furnace stops', instead of hiring repair ( 100% of repairmen offered a 5-figure 'we can install new one' ), finally traced problem to defective solder joint on mobo that vibrated l
27e58edf81428ffa…9af9d1b2…2022-12-14 19:47:21 <signpost> my read of that post is she's taking what she built for eulora and doing what she likes with it. and good for her; she should.
1e5a96b981428ffa…81428ffa…2022-12-14 19:47:30 <asciilifeform> point was, asciilifeform was never able to properly hate diana -- possibly nonmaskable irq from sex organs, nfi. but per asciilifeform's pov, behaves 'like ant removed from anthill', maybe after n yrs can think like a human again
61df53aedeed5d94…2a1834de…2022-12-14 19:49:32 <phf> well we're back in the argument from where my renewed participation in this venue started :> how much value there was to mp's approach, how much credit is his exclusive for establishing this approach, etc.
1b6782325d6bb4e6…e02aa5ba…2023-02-20 19:13:24 <awt> asciilifeform: hrm can't find original thread with phf describing a particular kind of do-gooder.
2771044ecccfac96…cccfac96…2023-01-18 20:34:28 <phf> ndom anomalies that don't indicate anything interesting. i'm sure in the village at Agincourt there happened to be a boy with an inclanation towards computer science, but that's totally irrelevant to anything that was happening at the time. +SC2Ql~q^ܔA {`m hwz
7e53a2e8cccfac96…0e69f1ae…2023-01-18 20:35:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 15:31:20 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: ( whereas if you aint a 'hiki' yet, will bias to problems other folx who randomly comprise yer social circle will find interesting, i.e. that 'souped polaris' )
7482b305f3bfadff…901d45c9…2023-01-22 01:14:51 <phf> and yet http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021519 <<>> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021476
31f74b713ffb52af…3ffb52af…2022-12-09 20:20:48 <asciilifeform> ... that vibrated loose over some # of yrs
826259ed61df53ae…deed5d94…2022-12-14 19:50:15 signpost will shut up a while as he wants to hear what phf has to say for its merits.
e676ee0a1b678232…9269d50c…2023-02-20 19:13:49 <signpost> thing about the appalachians enlisting for the war is most of them are soyboys these days
a125457a2771044e…d5fd343a…2023-01-18 20:37:57 asciilifeform not knows of any time/place where 'walk around random garages' would reliably hit 'interesting'
c81f2a6f7e53a2e8…2771044e…2023-01-18 20:35:52 <phf> if i drive from dc to pittsburg and walk into random people's garages (that look interesting), ought to get some representative sample of "state of things"
9e50a66d7482b305…3a82764a…2023-01-22 01:16:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 20:15:23 asciilifeform[4]: right. but 'whether revive possible' is separate q
376aa5a7426ac16e…07014fc4…2023-09-14 22:43:31 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-14#1030311 << thank *you* for putting such a nice thing together, seriously shaves a lot of time off of trying to put this sort of environ together sewing bits by hand.
edcad11691be568c…91be568c…2022-10-31 20:00:12 <asciilifeform> sometimes tho someone who could actually play was present.
0f5aaaf28fdd59b8…27e58edf…2022-12-14 19:48:10 <signpost> that critique has to be born by all, not just her.
9bb69e9b8fdd59b8…8fdd59b8…2022-12-14 19:48:11 <asciilifeform> folx actually baking whatever goodies on own volition imho a++
8163257a826259ed…9bb69e9b…2022-12-14 19:51:02 <asciilifeform> the folx for whom their work was 'ticket to mp lottery' -- walked. who remains -- presumably has 'biological itch in arse', curiosity. but asciilifeform can only speak for self there; fwiw not 'skipped beat' after 'tmsr kaput'
7e7a98dae676ee0a…e676ee0a…2023-02-20 19:14:06 <signpost> soyboys plus whatever the endless pollution does to their hormones
f157d98bc81f2a6f…c4c30da0…2023-01-18 20:36:16 <asciilifeform> phf: arguably folx doing sumthing truly interesting were always 'random anomalies'. in certain times/places the output got traction, widely copied, etc. but this process not in any way a given
10bdb56a9e50a66d…9e50a66d…2023-01-22 01:16:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:47:59 asciilifeform[5]: observes the obv trend of thinking folx on the net wishing for comeback of old religions (mostly anglo protestantisms, tho also catholicism or, in ru, mass epidemic of 'orthodoxy of central nervous system'(tm)) but imho is interesting cocktail of lulz and unexamined motivatio
12471e1b376aa5a7…376aa5a7…2023-09-14 22:44:08 <shinohai> Even got a static bash working on it: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/PENTACLECHROOT.png
20624fa3376aa5a7…847497c2…2023-09-14 22:44:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-14 13:25:07 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-12#1030297 << nice! thanks for doing that.
c0bab2a1edcad116…edcad116…2022-10-31 20:00:53 asciilifeform learned moar re organik chem from al schwartz than from 4 semesters of same in '2nd tour of duty' at uni
5d8b5a790f009763…3048665c…2022-12-09 20:21:48 <phf> out in the deplorables land you can still get appointment with a real doctor, and because they are not all puffed up on bethesda residency and morning npr programming, they tend to talk straight and have very sensible opinions. and they all think shit's fucked. "you need any script o"y`
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155008de8163257a…61df53ae…2022-12-14 19:51:13 <phf> i still think that the log + blogs was a brilliant way to distill the essence of structured communication and adapt it to novel technology
7d4487cf7e7a98da…1b678232…2023-02-20 19:14:07 <awt> asciilifeform: re: ohio the derailed train and subsequent release of some chemicals.
45484d8d08596249…3fc3d985…2023-01-18 20:38:31 <signpost> there is a hierarchy of tournaments in functioning human civilization
d5fd343af157d98b…f157d98b…2023-01-18 20:37:01 <asciilifeform> (e.g. konrad zuss built a working programmable comp in ww2 germany, in mother's kitchen. summed to 0 , for the reason proposed )
0862a1b510bdb56a…f3bfadff…2023-01-22 01:15:10 <asciilifeform> and old idea, too. e.g. orwell mentioned off hand 'world wars inevitable after darwin' and did not think needs justification, was assuming that reader considers this obv
771a8d3512471e1b…c9d41ca0…2023-09-15 02:15:16 <lobbes> shinohai: lol, you really went to the trouble of banning my home ip from your www just to spite me huh?
c54a246dc0bab2a1…a14e2501…2022-10-31 20:01:25 <phf> "this here thread ran 25 years, had its own hostring shard when things like that were a concern, inventend new branch of material science meanwhile and spawn a handful of phds, the car that i was going to treat has since rusted and been decomitioned, etc but my children will carry on my vigil, for the filthy fiberglass scu
5ea417b25d8b5a79…5d8b5a79…2022-12-09 20:21:48 <phf> s while you're here? as you might know narcotics are out, but depression? issues sleeping? maybe stack up on some antibiotics? anyway, see you in a year!" o"y`
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e257e34c5d8b5a79…b95d02d5…2022-12-09 20:21:51 signpost has contractors worth a shit, filtered for rednecks when selecting.
f50de32d0862a1b5…0862a1b5…2023-01-22 01:15:36 <asciilifeform> not even necessarily wrong. simply from asciilifeform's pov aint obv. that it accounts for errything, or even causally points in correct dir
22becf50771a8d35…771a8d35…2023-09-15 02:15:18 <lobbes> the man will never forgive me for larping out on him during the #t days. But I guess I can't really blame him *shrug*
de2d738b5ea417b2…dd49ebee…2022-12-09 20:26:59 asciilifeform not spent much time with doctors (aside from dr.mengele-style 'you dun need novocaine' dentist) but expects that when he ends up needing actual doctor, the kind that cuts etc. -- will prolly simply feed worms
81c1b9c08e30be55…155008de…2022-12-14 19:51:46 <phf> and ~personally~ i kind of dig the high culture "letters from M--" style that came with it
e9ba6c601140c988…7e7a98da…2023-02-20 19:14:38 <signpost> they have this cylindrical pudge to them at best. aren't going to win any wars.
644201bb528a7fc9…08596249…2023-01-18 20:39:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: obv. as daylight. thought that q of thrd was 'wai output of high tier nao consists of sbf rather than sr-71'
144dbcc9f50de32d…09816635…2023-01-22 01:15:48 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021482 << ty for the book rec.
4965782522becf50…d82f42aa…2023-09-15 02:37:11 <signpost> yeah, amd64 debs aren't going to work on another architecture. you're going to need to port the bootstrap process to aarch64 to get that working.
5203506078bd8053…78bd8053…2022-10-31 20:05:19 <phf> asciilifeform, i've been rereading some old common lisp threads, mostly because i'm hacking genera in my spare time and the kind of questions i want answers to have not been raised since early 2000s
329a74bdcd041b2c…5ea417b2…2022-12-09 20:22:58 <phf> the case where your urologist is also your general practitioner
e005cf8dde2d738b…8cc42615…2022-12-09 20:28:00 <phf> asciilifeform, that's why you pay them to chat once a year. you want the whole roster of potential medical issues covered, so when you call them you say "can you please leave a message with dr such and such"
d18b03d281c1b9c0…8e30be55…2022-12-14 19:51:50 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform's ~entire interest in kompyooting.
404212f6e9ba6c60…2cf63acf…2023-02-20 19:15:49 <phf> signpost, a texan trash talking appalachia! a papi go make me a temale
cf0a7612644201bb…c81f2a6f…2023-01-18 20:39:18 <phf> asciilifeform, but that's your hypothesis, that's not supported by lived experience. i'm talking from experience
7c6918f5144dbcc9…10bdb56a…2023-01-22 01:17:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 18:23:24 phf[awt|deedbot]: if you want to slog through a very extensive historic account of the role of both religion and "magic" in the life of englishmen circa 17th century, i highly recommend https://www.abebooks.com/9780140600155/Religion-Decline-Magic-Thomas-Keith-0140600159/plp
437787f149657825…49657825…2023-09-15 02:38:14 <signpost> another option would be to see how cross-compilation goes from an already-built pentacle
7b594c75329a74bd…0f009763…2022-12-09 20:24:23 <asciilifeform> klicking indian autoprescriber prolly cheaper
0d99ac07e005cf8d…e005cf8d…2022-12-09 20:30:44 <phf> this way a kind of a card game, "ah, fuck, i don't have a suit to cover that one, guess i ded now"
ed60ce88d18b03d2…d18b03d2…2022-12-14 19:52:19 <asciilifeform> there was 'sumthing for erryone' (or just short). some -- req'd an mp, some no
6e5300b4cf0a7612…528a7fc9…2023-01-18 20:39:47 <signpost> brings up what phf mentioned earlier, the phones.
566fb60c7c6918f5…144dbcc9…2023-01-22 01:17:52 <signpost> who was it, seek first to understand before proposing to replace, approximates my view on the thing.
36ac7177437787f1…437787f1…2023-09-15 02:38:48 <signpost> if you spelunk in the scripts comprising pentacle and the various builds, you'll see BUILD, HOST, and TARGET variables
75e8f25685d8d7a0…85d8d7a0…2022-10-31 20:06:49 <phf> man had no chill, and outside of a handful of highly insightful posts he was mostly an unhinged psycho
7c4f5f990d99ac07…0d99ac07…2022-12-09 20:51:32 <phf> i do wonder which one's the horse and which one's the cart. could be the case that pervasive internet is eating up the legacy institutions is the cause rather than the other way around
abb49bbd4b96af08…7d4487cf…2023-02-20 19:20:07 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023895 << must have
e8b67d2d6e5300b4…644201bb…2023-01-18 20:40:07 <asciilifeform> phf: your experience contains somewhere where 'in erry other garage, precision mill' ? or asciilifeform misunderstands catastrophically ?
1a44529436ac7177…36ac7177…2023-09-15 02:39:19 <signpost> BUILD is the toolchain that oughta be used to produce the next toolchain.
9b323e4575e8f256…b99e6a37…2022-10-31 20:07:28 <signpost> as a younger man I thought I was being clever by selecting philosophy out of the madness/religion/philosophy trilemma.
7d59e373dd49ebee…329a74bd…2022-12-09 20:26:14 <phf> ayo hol up, why is it when africa man gets to be an np in america eryone assume he indian
d78499df7c4f5f99…7c4f5f99…2022-12-09 20:53:55 <phf> like for example i don't have much insight into why nps have replaced doctors, which started a decade ago? was it the case of kids these days, or too many people too few doctors, some kind of regulatory shit, or was some aspect of proto telemedicine already thinning the margins
eda73776d5aeef31…eb4ae67d…2022-12-14 19:53:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-07 11:06:38 signpost: the hallowed status of the logs, and putting them at their right place, among a peerage.
f54bb2faabb49bbd…a27f1202…2023-02-20 19:21:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 12:18:48 asciilifeform[4]: meanwhile, apropos of nuffin, in asciilifeform's experiments with 'ergonomics' crackpottery. surprisingly comfortable.
d7c85a96e8b67d2d…6e5300b4…2023-01-18 20:40:11 <signpost> they could be a drug substituting for participation in the hierarchy of tournaments
54f77d4e28732765…7482b305…2023-01-22 01:21:42 <phf> asciilifeform, i would e.g. never use a phrase that you're supposedly quoting "fundamental to ontology", because that's not what religion is. religion *is* the ontology.
4b598d8b1a445294…1a445294…2023-09-15 02:39:30 <signpost> HOST is where the next toolchain shall *run*
20044abd9b323e45…9b323e45…2022-10-31 20:07:49 <signpost> ended up thinking the religion was the substrate atop which the philosophy, as per thread a while back.
2040dd9ad78499df…de2d738b…2022-12-09 20:55:48 <asciilifeform> 'few doctors' afaik is phakt -- in usa is a cartel, and explicitly exempted from antitrust etc
e3fbebc8eda73776…81c1b9c0…2022-12-14 19:53:52 <phf> i notice what kids these days call "code switch" when talking about tmsr business, my sentences start taking, with many assides and subcomments, a victorian literary shape, so as to, in the shortest way possible, communicate with highest precision all necessary thought, so as not insult esteemed reader with too low of s/n.
f7d15080f54bb2fa…404212f6…2023-02-20 19:20:43 <phf> main problem with appalachians is that they are ~not~ soyboys, the later being a prerequisite to navigating modern sociopolitical environment. their main problem is that their fundamental illiteracy makes them easy prey to all the different forms of manipulation techniques. e.g. the idea of a zogbot
952c81c4d7c85a96…e8b67d2d…2023-01-18 20:40:50 <asciilifeform> signpost: tournaments, as it happens, aint optional ( even to have garage in which to moped is nao a stiff 'tournament' )
bcc283da54f77d4e…54f77d4e…2023-01-22 01:27:40 <phf> i guess there are various sociological arguments for why societies construct ontology, but i suspect it's by observation. every society had some kind of ontology, and it religious society religion is it. covers creation, eschatology, purpose, nature and meaning of being.
18d121064b598d8b…4b598d8b…2023-09-15 02:39:52 <signpost> TARGET is for what sort of system the new toolchain shall itself produce binaries.
43843e6820044abd…20044abd…2022-10-31 20:08:05 signpost hears phf asking what the hell the cultural substrate of the engineering ought to be.
262268852040dd9a…2040dd9a…2022-12-09 20:57:21 <asciilifeform> ( they graduate with ~1/2mil in debt, and pay it off by charging over9000, which is normally paid by 'insurance' (fraudulently labeled, in fact is scheme for (miserly) distribution of freshly-printed usd to doctors/pharma cos )
e6ee6532e3fbebc8…ed60ce88…2022-12-14 19:54:10 asciilifeform for instance , interested in logical conclusion of cryptological wot, i.e. 'new internet' where 'freedom of association' via structured relat.s of trust. but this aint a seekrit.
899a855af7d15080…4b96af08…2023-02-20 19:22:08 <signpost> aren't you talking of your amish(-adjacent?) enclave though, which I woudn't disrespect?
51145776952c81c4…952c81c4…2023-01-18 20:41:07 <asciilifeform> q is , why the 'winners' aint much to write home about in recent decades
47593845952c81c4…d7c85a96…2023-01-18 20:41:08 <signpost> "got n likes hur" or even "this guy lex I follow is a good guy" giving what little reward hit is desired by the brain almost devoid of will
4193de98bcc283da…bcc283da…2023-01-22 01:31:29 <phf> anyway, i think i need to reenter this conversation at a later point, i found this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021448 to be so infuriating, that i can't even, just flailing from that point on
0bb1320818d12106…18d12106…2023-09-15 02:40:21 <signpost> I didn't yet smooth the edges in there, but it's worth trying, and potentially cutting your own vpatch to improve.
e970a78243843e68…43843e68…2022-10-31 20:08:36 <signpost> curious if he'll laugh if I say christendom.
1922d50d26226885…26226885…2022-12-09 20:59:49 <asciilifeform> the Officially-ordained doctors normally do very little doctoring, instead overseeing a stable of nurses (formerly; nao these ~also~ graduate in debt, and not do much nursing, instead oversee technicians, who... fuck knows what with next 'turn of screw')
a0bddccce6ee6532…e6ee6532…2022-12-14 19:55:03 asciilifeform on other level, interested in ~physical~ 'new internet', but this is 'bridge too far' atm
02570c8b899a855a…899a855a…2023-02-20 19:22:20 <signpost> talking more of the folks that just got owned by the derailed train.
4cd4857d51145776…47593845…2023-01-18 20:41:36 <signpost> or put better, on one side will has been squelched, the other side sufficient facsimile to absorb what remains
d1540b9d4193de98…7c6918f5…2023-01-22 01:32:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:10:53 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021418 << asciilifeform suspects that '~erryone was covered' is an ( appealing , yes ) historical fiction, rather than solid phakt
4d0042e90bb13208…e4ced32e…2023-09-15 02:41:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-14#1030326 << lol wat was this??
aca3cb2ee970a782…75e8f256…2022-10-31 20:08:48 <phf> greeks answered that question, cultural substrate of engineering is cuckoldry
293493d11922d50d…cd041b2c…2022-12-09 22:18:38 <signpost> speaking of insurance, I literally just got a letter calling a hospital birth an unnecessary procedure.
b08b3196a0bddccc…e3fbebc8…2022-12-14 19:55:10 <phf> and when reading diana's blog posts, i'm reminded of that particular style, since it rarely has an opportunity to present itself in the modern, decadent world.
7d26c1c402570c8b…f7d15080…2023-02-20 19:22:23 <phf> nah, talking about most men and boys in the area
7deea647d1540b9d…ec3c5371…2023-01-22 01:31:36 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-03-01 asciilifeform: and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot
81688aad4d0042e9…20624fa3…2023-09-15 02:43:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-14 22:17:15 lobbes[jonsykkel]: the man will never forgive me for larping out on him during the #t days. But I guess I can't really blame him *shrug*
02be4169aca3cb2e…e970a782…2022-10-31 20:09:05 <signpost> sec while I quote middle mp against late mp on this subj.
5fc2d4e2293493d1…293493d1…2022-12-09 22:19:40 <signpost> I assume they send these out because some percentage of duds wont bother to follow up.
2b014d257d26c1c4…02570c8b…2023-02-20 19:22:45 signpost spent years on a farm outside rimersburg. loads of mutant fatties around.
42f7fbe69797d24c…4cd4857d…2023-01-18 20:42:15 <signpost> asciilifeform: the top's output might be affected by the pressure or lack thereof created by the entire civilization's game
81f6d7e37deea647…4193de98…2023-01-22 02:22:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021464 << i've checked older version of pest.lisp and it looks like it was "CMU Serif"
703b29a581688aad…12471e1b…2023-09-15 12:13:21 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-14#1030325 << well you aren't anything special here, you simply reminded me to lock paste back down, which I had forgotten to do over yet another crazy summer. It's ain't intended to be a public thing at this time.
b590450502be4169…02be4169…2022-10-31 20:09:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-04-10#1095838
14e26ed65fc2d4e2…a3c9f774…2022-12-10 06:23:51 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1018008 << ty for pointing this out. I've managed to "partially" disable icmp on my station in that I can no longer ping it with 'ping', but for some reason I can still prod at the ports via 'nmap'
45b59b625736537e…d5aeef31…2022-12-14 19:56:24 <signpost> this kind of interwoven identity authorship in a peerage atop hypertext logs was/is a technological superpower, yes.
207485f242f7fbe6…cf0a7612…2023-01-18 20:42:18 <phf> asciilifeform, yes, explicitly 'in erry other garage, precision mill'. but also a softer version of "sampling" i'm talking about
9d0a670381f6d7e3…d1540b9d…2023-01-22 02:24:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 14:20:31 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: phf, thanks for the cmu font tip. i got it going, but for some reason the best matching variant is skinnier than in your screenshot. anyway, not worth much further investigation at this point.
1516b153703b29a5…81688aad…2023-09-15 12:14:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-14 22:17:13 lobbes[jonsykkel|billymg]: shinohai: lol, you really went to the trouble of banning my home ip from your www just to spite me huh?
8793326ab5904505…6fe4c199…2022-10-31 20:10:45 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-04-10 mircea_popescu: what motivates the monkey to pick up the rock isn't some sort of contorted dream about becoming a rockthrowing revolutionary ceo.
e0b888d114e26ed6…ec311cb5…2022-12-10 06:25:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-08 22:49:46 asciilifeform[6]: lobbes: fwiw if a box containing pestron is config'd as rec'd in orig spec (i.e. icmp disabled) yer nmap scan won't work.
e3c4321245b59b62…b08b3196…2022-12-14 19:58:15 <phf> asciilifeform, you're like an ultra-technologist in my victorian fantasy, maybe as you're not as interested in inter-human aspect of what tmsr proposed and where mp was the strongest, you reject that element as the least important. "this technological wunderwaffen i've tinkered in SZ+<[ e.;!M
c77cee3c23e618f9…7d26c1c4…2023-02-20 19:23:07 <phf> like outside of the amish, the amish have all kinds of defence mechanisms against the modern thing.
ac157f8a207485f2…207485f2…2023-01-18 20:45:47 <phf> first one was in russia in the 90s, where every 10th dacha would've had a c64 or similar, and every 100th would've had a guy who was willing to show you how to work it.
80f854c59d0a6703…81f6d7e3…2023-01-22 02:24:01 <phf> linux freetype renderer tends to produce skinnier versions, i have at some point spent significant amount of time trying to reproduce the tasteful thickness of mac's renderer but failed to make it look exactly the same. you can definitely approximate it better compared to defaults
2d814ebb1516b153…703b29a5…2023-09-15 12:14:44 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-14#1030327 << before old setup got nuked, I was experimenting with an arm build of this, might still have the notes scattered about somewhere. (Will soon have more free time to devote to things.)
f6bdff488793326a…b5904505…2022-10-31 20:10:09 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2015-04-10#1095837
f9900e6fe0b888d1…14e26ed6…2022-12-10 06:24:01 <lobbes> off to bed rn, but I'll continue configuring it to spec this weekend
c365e6ede3c43212…e3c43212…2022-12-14 19:58:15 <phf> my laboratory over the weekend will solve the problem of precise communication once and for all, so as there will be no confusion, when communicating amongst men, henceforth!" SZ+<[ e.;!M
30b40dd9c77cee3c…c77cee3c…2023-02-20 19:24:12 <phf> yeah, but that's primarily not the people who go and serve. the people who go and serve are yoboys who spent youth moding their cars and nothing else. they then go into army, come back and do construction or whatever, if still limbs and no ptsd
f6944bb0ac157f8a…ac157f8a…2023-01-18 20:47:59 <phf> i think the first person who showed me how to program was a person from our dacha complex, a typical russianjewish engineer, who would load us games to play, and then, since i showed inclination, would try to explain the basics of basic/peek/poke
efdd1d9e80f854c5…80f854c5…2023-01-22 02:25:50 <phf> it's highly unlikely i'll be able to find that fonts.conf in backups, but one would start with https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=fonts-conf&sektion=5&format=html
9b01db1c2d814ebb…1516b153…2023-09-15 12:16:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-14 22:39:06 signpost: yeah, amd64 debs aren't going to work on another architecture. you're going to need to port the bootstrap process to aarch64 to get that working.
bca0731cf6bdff48…8793326a…2022-10-31 20:11:13 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-04-10 mircea_popescu: most of human history, and the vast majority of everything nice and good, came out of cause-oriented. so common in fact it didn't even have a name.
80b7aec5f9900e6f…f9900e6f…2022-12-10 14:48:54 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-09#1018057 << had a 9pm appointment, the guy was in a track suit, on a couch, in his living room. 5 minutes to describe the problem, "alright, i sent your script to cvs"
8f2b4563c365e6ed…c365e6ed…2022-12-14 20:02:45 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-14#1018493 << when i retire from my worldly responsibilities i'll sit down indeed to compose the authoritative encyclopedia of tmsr inventions, the marvelous gpg contract, the mechanised web of trust, the forum that is mediated by the electronic Z uQڐG<
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2368365830b40dd9…23e618f9…2023-02-20 19:24:41 <signpost> not sure there are enough of these to fight a war, is all.
e5ea5316f6944bb0…42f7fbe6…2023-01-18 20:50:14 <signpost> my first computer was a gift from a neighbor EE guy who used to work for some american (lol) crt company. set me up with qbasic I think it was also.
3ec4fc35efdd1d9e…f50de32d…2023-01-22 02:59:34 asciilifeform liked, of all things, the mac os <=9 font renderer
d9a0c7519b01db1c…0bb13208…2023-09-15 19:39:30 <signpost> looks like linux kernel (headers) and gcc differ on what they want to call aarch64/arm64, had to set TARGET to arm64 for headers, aarch64 for the rest
72d7547e80b7aec5…e0b888d1…2022-12-10 14:50:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-09 15:27:27 phf[awt]: clicking languages are african
9cf2977c8f2b4563…8f2b4563…2022-12-14 20:02:45 <phf> telegraph technology! the future that could've been Z uQڐG<
X
00a432ae8f2b4563…eda73776…2022-12-14 20:03:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-14 14:51:40 signpost: will shut up a while as he wants to hear what phf has to say for its merits.
1ef1f4c023683658…23683658…2023-02-20 19:25:02 <signpost> but maybe there are. sorry for them if they're still ready and willing to serve the grinder.
38ab579de5ea5316…e5ea5316…2023-01-18 20:50:36 <signpost> gave it to me because I was hanging out with his kid and asked "what's this" enough times in hisgarage
1692eb1f3ec4fc35…3ec4fc35…2023-01-22 03:04:21 <asciilifeform> in wholly unrelated 'kindergarten' q's, does someone know why when e.g. 'insert or replace into knobs(name, value) values(?, ?)' the prev value is still visible in hexdump of the sqlite turd ? (does 'update or replace' in fact crank up the index and put new row?)
f28b2a69d9a0c751…d9a0c751…2023-09-15 19:39:44 <signpost> still squatting out the gcc, but other than the above, seems to have worked
0ca2091accbce1dc…f6bdff48…2022-10-31 20:12:03 <signpost> against http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2019-12-14#1955448
f075555572d7547e…80b7aec5…2022-12-10 14:52:40 <phf> bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind
8a6d40501ef1f4c0…30b40dd9…2023-02-20 19:26:54 <phf> the original point though was that the bulk of willing and able who go and serve, that is people who can actually run a distance with an m240, come from east palestine 100m radius
d29b8df338ab579d…38ab579d…2023-01-18 20:52:50 <signpost> was an older guy with younger kid, and had the sense about him that the interesting part of his career was already over.
9fb8b4051692eb1f…1692eb1f…2023-01-22 03:05:58 <asciilifeform> ( was this wai awt had, in blatta, a query to find the existing row..? )
42cff5980ca2091a…bca0731c…2022-10-31 20:13:00 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: most beings an engineer produce useful things only as an unintentional / coincidental byproduct of an internal cycle of self-assuaging that's broadly unrelated to anything else.
f3677192f0755555…5fc2d4e2…2022-12-10 14:55:07 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l2IgY9QYNw << current status of nation of same.
5bf6fc62d29b8df3…f6944bb0…2023-01-18 20:53:08 <phf> i suspect asciilifeform's theory is primarily "lone genius lone genuises alone", from that perspective there's probably indeed only 7 of asciilifeforms in the whole country. but even he brings up his "brother", who is clearly from that same lineage of soviet intelligentsia. it's ea Zh .Bykr4p筮3Z
4ebc74c89fb8b405…9fb8b405…2023-01-22 03:06:49 <asciilifeform> ( for knobs, i suppose not matters, but for e.g. 'broken hearts' could bloat the db pretty quickly )
bbbcf353f3677192…f0755555…2022-12-10 15:03:39 <phf> they are using the term разведчик "razvedchik", and the extra layer of mockery is lost in translation. a spy in english necessarily implies some kind of "spy vs spy" connotation, the inherent ambiguity of the profession. a razvedchik, is kind of like a ranger and a navy se ^{5;I}x\@jE$u^*S@L
062d6c4dcf5346e0…de5c764c…2023-02-20 19:28:36 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-09-03 ascii_field: they happily send their sons to army so they can 'die for a fat bitch's right to marry her dog'
98f110ee5bf6fc62…5bf6fc62…2023-01-18 20:53:08 <phf> sy to extrapolate there there was a time and place where men like that could randomly be found working on precision mills in the garages Zh .Bykr4p筮3Z
1c8c6dd9ccc4a5a3…0ca2091a…2022-10-31 20:14:06 <signpost> I don't know that "why work to ensure free comms" can be justified more satisfactorily than "because the truth is redemptive, emerges out of free dialogue, and god commands that uncovering truth is the highest good"
a10faac1bbbcf353…bbbcf353…2022-12-10 15:03:39 <phf> al combined, inherently heroic, a man who risks his life and liberty for his nation ^{5;I}x\@jE$u^*S@L
dbf69c08062d6c4d…cf5346e0…2023-02-20 19:31:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023939 << can't resist observing that mecha-war aint exactly a 'contest of who less soy'
8edca8ae98f110ee…98f110ee…2023-01-18 20:54:22 <phf> singpost, well, yeah, afaiu it used to be a norm here also, that you would have a "retired boeing senior ee" living somewhere down the block
cbcd816ea638cd28…a638cd28…2023-01-22 03:12:30 <phf> vacuuming is the universal sql thing, e.g. https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/sql-vacuum.html
ba683e5f1c8c6dd9…1c8c6dd9…2022-10-31 20:14:26 <signpost> not saying that last bit casually; it'd just never end if one wanted to elaborate it.
14d07eb7a10faac1…f3677192…2022-12-10 15:05:27 signpost figured the Very Serious Spy obtaining thumb drive church pictures wasn't solemn respect, lol
24684cd0dbf69c08…f54bb2fa…2023-02-20 19:32:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 14:15:05 signpost: thing about the appalachians enlisting for the war is most of them are soyboys these days
e60798858edca8ae…8edca8ae…2023-01-18 20:55:29 <phf> and while you have a bunch of youngens running around being all retarded he'd identify the least retarded one, grab him from the street and go "alright, little one, this here is a precision device, let this be a foundational experience in your upbringing"
a269076dcbcd816e…cbcd816e…2023-01-22 03:13:01 <phf> by default you're going to have stale bits on disk, because updates tend to be smart
6fb4da9eba683e5f…ccc4a5a3…2022-10-31 20:15:02 <phf> signpost, you're commenting on asciilifeform's commentary rather than my original point
4ffd043e14d07eb7…a10faac1…2022-12-10 15:06:41 <phf> no, no, that wasn't a dis at whelan, they were exploring the circumstances of his arest, making light of the fact that his cover was weak
8ea0f9bc24684cd0…8a6d4050…2023-02-20 19:31:59 <phf> signpost, i have friends in the area who served, and they don't even fall into "army boy with obeast at home stereotype". mostly fit dudes, etc. and their main problem is that they are just completely mediocre in most respects. construction work, drink a six pack, play call of duty 'o+ 4 >GKHiBv
fe02780ee6079885…9797d24c…2023-01-18 20:56:07 <asciilifeform> phf: a, thought the thrd was concrete to 'mechanical garage'. but imho entirely possible that c64 (or rather mass march of thinking folx into fucking with softs) is what killed it
0cafc5fba269076d…a269076d…2023-01-22 03:13:26 <phf> e.g. postgresql update is delete followed by insert, where delete just marks row as deleted without actually doing anything
8688e4db8ea0f9bc…8ea0f9bc…2023-02-20 19:31:59 <phf> , hunt, sportsball during sportsball season, etc. 'o+ 4 >GKHiBv
0ae07bfffe02780e…d29b8df3…2023-01-18 20:56:47 <signpost> in this dude's case the tragedy of his life was his sovereign letting his industry escape to asia.
e9a9e77a0cafc5fb…0cafc5fb…2023-01-22 03:13:42 <phf> you then have to vacuum because a update heavy table will baloon
166cc9fe820f58a0…6fb4da9e…2022-10-31 20:19:09 <phf> i figured, i'm not sure how this thread started, and i'm too lazy to reread, but something i said prompted asciilifeform to re-raise our old argument "why dig". when it comes to free comms my concerns is not "why have it?" but more like "what should be done so that there's a meangful communication going on over the comms",
5fb90795187e3dd6…4ffd043e…2022-12-10 15:07:40 <phf> ah she even explicitly says it at some point "for us he's a spy, for them he's a razvedchik"
f0dfc9398688e4db…dbf69c08…2023-02-20 19:32:48 <asciilifeform> ^ observed precisely this, while working for some yrs with (admittedly medical corps) us army grunts
c47b481b8688e4db…8688e4db…2023-02-20 19:32:49 <phf> in the context of conversation, and to bring in marxist theory, what they lack is class awareness and class identity and it is deliberately this way.
5f2aaf6ae9a9e77a…e9a9e77a…2023-01-22 03:17:36 <phf> (come to think of it, if you weren't vacuuming your phuctor tables, could've been a major contributor to everything running dog slow)
1b7a6af7166cc9fe…166cc9fe…2022-10-31 20:19:09 <phf> and the second question "what are we missing if we were to attempt to accomodate such future arrangement"
cff8a6025fb90795…187e3dd6…2022-12-10 15:08:18 <signpost> "look what they do to the ones that earnestly give a shit" ?
b99f4663522ae28d…062d6c4d…2023-02-20 19:33:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-25 asciilifeform: lizards in usa 'solved' the 'unions problem' by getting rid of labour, creating caste of lumpens on left side of bell curve and caste of paper shufflers on right side, with the sleight-of-hand moar than sufficing to
174ec3b55f2aaf6a…5f2aaf6a…2023-01-22 03:18:55 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021539 ^
478d2fdb1b7a6af7…820f58a0…2022-10-31 20:19:56 <signpost> yeah, that was my answer to your question, if unclear.
e4717e4ecff8a602…cff8a602…2022-12-10 15:08:38 <signpost> at any rate, the episode typifies contemporary US empire
84464973b99f4663…522ae28d…2023-02-20 19:37:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023964 << this part imho aint mega-surprise, tho -- who signs contract to be in army for 40k$/y ? the 'hump of the bell curve' for whom is entirely 'good jerb'. 'and get your teeth fixed'(tm) ( for many of these folx, army is 1st and last time in their lives they'll have access to me
d72c570b574d8ae8…574d8ae8…2023-01-18 20:57:45 <signpost> which of these tells his son to take the same road?
475e0c36174ec3b5…9d0a6703…2023-01-22 03:20:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 22:05:34 asciilifeform[4]: in wholly unrelated 'kindergarten' q's, does someone know why when e.g. 'insert or replace into knobs(name, value) values(?, ?)' the prev value is still visible in hexdump of the sqlite turd ? (does 'update or replace' in fact crank up the index and put new row?)
709bd8edcbd03c25…abfd8b59…2023-09-20 22:14:25 <unpx> signpost: uhm, don't know if you managed to mirror the blog, I was interested into your ocpy, should have done a mirror myself
fcf6e3c8478d2fdb…478d2fdb…2022-10-31 20:20:12 <signpost> the thing you're saying it needs has to be imposed, which is why mp was sufficient foundation for the prior era.
538b25a5e4717e4e…5fb90795…2022-12-10 15:10:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018075 << yeah "extra layer of mockery" of the exchange, not of whelan
5374d78984464973…24684cd0…2023-02-20 19:38:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 14:33:16 phf[jonsykkel]: , hunt, sportsball during sportsball season, etc.
c50bb70cd72c570b…fe02780e…2023-01-18 20:58:01 <asciilifeform> such folx existed all over ex-su ('precision engineer, used to make rocket steering vanes from niobium, nao carving spoons to sell in bazar'), phf prolly saw'em
eda37cf4475e0c36…4ebc74c8…2023-01-22 03:51:50 <asciilifeform> phf: phuctor was vacuumed weekly (but, with exception of when was doing odd things, there was nuffin to vacuum, because data set was only ever added to, never mutated)
a9db1c79709bd8ed…bfb526bc…2023-09-20 22:15:47 <signpost> I'll put it up for you somewhere soon, next day or two.
7c96bab6538b25a5…72d7547e…2022-12-10 15:11:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-10 10:04:50 phf[awt]: they are using the term разведчик "razvedchik", and the extra layer of mockery is lost in translation. a spy in english necessarily implies some kind of "spy vs spy" connotation, the inherent ambiguity of the profession. a razvedchik, is kind of like a ranger and a navy
8cc45dcf5374d789…84464973…2023-02-20 19:37:38 <asciilifeform> ... army is 1st and last time in their lives they'll have access to medical anyffin )
b1f3c596c50bb70c…c50bb70c…2023-01-18 20:58:11 <asciilifeform> ( in that case, 'industry escaped' to /dev/null, rather than 'asia' )
2fc2237beda37cf4…eda37cf4…2023-01-22 03:52:22 <asciilifeform> was dog slow tho, until asciilifeform finally cracked, lol, a b00k, and found out about indices
067689b8a9db1c79…709bd8ed…2023-09-20 22:16:29 <unpx> No hurry, I'm going to look into the problem from another angle, hoping I'm not missing the point.
9aa30788f2860c85…f2860c85…2022-10-31 20:20:34 <signpost> also why I've said fuck it all, I'll just be an agnostic christian like any good thinking european. what else?
330befdf7c96bab6…538b25a5…2022-12-10 15:19:28 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018081 << hmm, i've realized that there's no analogy availble. a nation that lacks a socio-cultural cohesion, doesn't have an equivalent of a "razvedchik"
f45dcec88cc45dcf…8cc45dcf…2023-02-20 19:39:10 <asciilifeform> the money's a joak (again unsurprise), to make 'boring programmer's wage' you gotta be at least 3 star general, last asciilifeform knew
87b2292bb1f3c596…e6079885…2023-01-18 20:59:26 <phf> asciilifeform, well, in the 90s c64 in the garage was a part of the mechanical garage, because it was an indicator of the activity of the mind. obv a garage with a computer today is not it.
a6858ddb2fc2237b…2fc2237b…2023-01-22 03:53:26 <asciilifeform> make sense that 'fucked with it, nao gc plz' tho. ty phf
b598b2e69aa30788…1b7a6af7…2022-10-31 20:20:46 <phf> well, before we impose, we should figure out what we're imposing
b0ca9c8a330befdf…7c96bab6…2022-12-10 15:20:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-10 10:09:24 signpost: "look what they do to the ones that earnestly give a shit" ?
874bf2ebf45dcec8…c47b481b…2023-02-20 19:39:15 <phf> well, with army you have other perks besides salary, like any government job comes with benefits, etc.
b478c24d87b2292b…87b2292b…2023-01-18 21:01:01 <phf> apropos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbb30pZyvYI
f27edc9aa6858ddb…a6858ddb…2023-01-22 03:56:18 asciilifeform will have to experiment with 'what vacuum interval?' in sqlite in re pestron
818a5f41f17bb067…f17bb067…2023-09-20 22:16:52 <unpx> ``Coding for Errors and Erasures in Random Network Coding''
9cf1c35fb0ca9c8a…330befdf…2022-12-10 15:21:13 <phf> so it's not about "giving a shit", it's about having a role that's inherently celebrated, her rant hinges on the semantic clarification, that whelan is indeed a "razvedchik", and having clarified that she immediately demonstrates the absurdity of the exchange to the listener
224da663b0ca9c8a…e4717e4e…2022-12-10 15:21:14 <signpost> nah, we feed our fake heroes to the mob as downfall porn.
0bbb5e4af27edc9a…f27edc9a…2023-01-22 03:56:50 <asciilifeform> blatta doesn't do it at all, but it also doesn't litter the db with 'broken hearts' that one later has to mutate, either
8eef20b172d5cc57…b598b2e6…2022-10-31 20:21:10 <phf> i'm not saying "lets force my mechanic to use pest", that wasn't in the original observation either
c0a2a6a2d34ba3a0…874bf2eb…2023-02-20 19:40:21 <phf> gosh, mr, i was fixin to take my banjo with me, but you sayin i can't!
dc4d2ba18d61bfea…8d61bfea…2023-01-18 21:41:29 <asciilifeform> neato film btw. ( asciilifeform once saw a modern-day -- well, 1980s -- 'player piano' constructed in this way , complete with 'records force curve when pianist hits key & replays' etc )
6e3104d00bbb5e4a…0bbb5e4a…2023-01-22 03:57:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-21#1021545 << wonder if still tru if field has explicit fixed length tho
84501ef7787b50c5…818a5f41…2023-09-20 22:19:43 <unpx> O((l + m)^2) tho, since Reed-Solomon-like construction, will compare better in a couple of days
584a76e18eef20b1…8eef20b1…2022-10-31 20:21:18 <phf> mechanic is long downstream, and not much important
f861d5486c118acc…9cf1c35f…2022-12-10 15:23:14 <phf> maybe journalists in the 80s movies. "he's an american journalist! send in the seals! no journalist left behind!" etc
2c781251c0a2a6a2…c0a2a6a2…2023-02-20 19:41:00 <phf> i ftr have only seen people with "teeth" issues when we would go deep into the wv mountains, and it's kind of like you have to go out of your way
d9df90addc4d2ba1…dc4d2ba1…2023-01-18 21:43:03 <asciilifeform> finest tradition of e.g. von kempelen (remembered, sadly, for 'chess turk' but early pioneer of 'self-playing instruments')
090177246e3104d0…475e0c36…2023-01-22 03:59:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-21 22:14:40 phf[deedbot|awt]: e.g. postgresql update is delete followed by insert, where delete just marks row as deleted without actually doing anything
4d1ce08184501ef7…9a6804bf…2023-09-21 00:10:12 <asciilifeform> unpx: what does it give in return for biting the O(n^2) bullet ?
0da0ff2e584a76e1…72d5cc57…2022-10-31 20:21:31 <signpost> no, normies just take the shape of their container.
221d86e2f861d548…f861d548…2022-12-10 15:26:21 <phf> or perhaps it just highlights the self-evident, that a black lesbian baller who got caught on drug charges is the equivalent of razvedchik in u.s.
bd269f362c781251…d34ba3a0…2023-02-20 19:43:51 asciilifeform suspects that 'contract armies' errywhere on planet3 consist of moar or less same kinda mediocrities as seen in usa, tho
0aefcfa8d9df90ad…d9df90ad…2023-01-18 21:44:01 <asciilifeform> ^ asciilifeform likes to bring up as example of historically 'fuzzy border' b/w genuine invention & flimflammery/stage magick
d90e742909017724…6e3104d0…2023-01-22 03:59:17 <asciilifeform> possibly the journaling mechanics still produce garbage even then.
b65d5ad409017724…28732765…2023-01-22 03:59:18 <signpost> iirc yes, because there's a tree of transaction states that it doesn't know whether will commit until it happens
e3ff54274d1ce081…84501ef7…2023-09-21 20:23:15 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-20#1030864 <<< at this time, my naive guess is that it could be better than "spray and pray" _in some cases_.
91e185880da0ff2e…584a76e1…2022-10-31 20:22:10 <phf> like in the car case, to solve that problem, i either talk to the locals (i.e. within the compound), or else i talk to my economic partners. the later fully attached to the dominant system.
bf2752ed221d86e2…6c118acc…2022-12-10 15:40:17 <signpost> I suppose by "give a shit", I mean that a guy like Whelan's decision to "serve his country" is a vestigial urge to be the stand-up patriot, to seek to stand in what I'm (perhaps still butchering by) assigning "razvedchik".
fbd8fc83bd269f36…bd269f36…2023-02-20 19:44:11 <asciilifeform> so it neither here or there for the 'us army suxx lol' file.
36f7696a0aefcfa8…b478c24d…2023-01-18 21:44:10 <phf> from same guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWroevJHpAI (the video above was floating around, until author resurfaced, and put it on own channel, added his "modern" works)
d1866f47d90e7429…b65d5ad4…2023-01-22 03:59:34 <signpost> so all of 'em exist, then later unused branches of reality gc'd
ee24fa99e3ff5427…199642ba…2023-09-21 20:23:17 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-20 18:19:46 unpx[asciilifeform]: O((l + m)^2) tho, since Reed-Solomon-like construction, will compare better in a couple of days
f9b52e6d91e18588…91e18588…2022-10-31 20:23:14 <phf> and the two kinds of communcation point at two directions of exploration of the whole
35a80778bf2752ed…bf2752ed…2022-12-10 15:40:35 <signpost> I always get the mental image of the guy at the end of Children of Men trying to put his blown-out guts back in.
d8dbd696fbd8fc83…fbd8fc83…2023-02-20 19:44:52 <asciilifeform> the officers can read, write, (sometimes) arithmetize. this suffices.
21b07e73ee24fa99…e3ff5427…2023-09-21 20:23:59 <unpx> I would like to know what kind of protocol can be built on top of pest, and which can't.
4e3facb6f9b52e6d…f9b52e6d…2022-10-31 20:23:34 <phf> locals are kind of like amish, and the obvious question there "why do you even need all this technology"
d4a82affd8dbd696…d8dbd696…2023-02-20 19:46:22 <asciilifeform> re physical shape -- afaik you dun need to be an olympic candidate to drive 'abrams' etc. ( tho gotta fit through the hatch, for some recruits this may pose problem? )
2f225cb6aeaa8d21…0aefcfa8…2023-01-18 21:47:02 <asciilifeform> iirc there were 19th c. cranked organs where included string instrument, played by same 'programmable' tape as the regular variant; so rather anachronistic-flavour. but still neato imho
0f60351a21b07e73…787b50c5…2023-09-21 20:24:07 <signpost> not clear on why you're choosing to work with an encoding with worse time complexity but I'm not gonna stop ya
ce6a55104e3facb6…4e3facb6…2022-10-31 20:24:15 <phf> where's economic partners are the second part of the tmsr question, "how does one fully detach himself from the spectacle without becoming a hermit/preper/etc"
024089d0d07052d9…d07052d9…2022-12-10 15:41:15 <signpost> I dunno how one continues to have a US once even the guys that wanted to put-guts-back-in are dead/retired
fcebcfa1d4a82aff…2c781251…2023-02-20 19:46:39 <phf> my point is perhaps more that most men are mediocre, and there's no need to drop them all the way to banjo and bad teeth, for it to be a problem
238274e18a159416…8a159416…2023-01-22 04:00:59 <asciilifeform> append-only (as in phuctor, on postgres) didn't seem to produce measurable qty of garbage, however. so possibly there was some kinda 'smart' baked in
985fb6980f60351a…21b07e73…2023-09-21 20:28:26 <unpx> Not really worrying about that yet, I can defer that decision for now, signpost.
b1fac3d9ce6a5510…0da0ff2e…2022-10-31 20:24:33 <signpost> this is why I've got at least a little bit of interest getting the NH state government using.
214710d7024089d0…024089d0…2022-12-10 15:41:55 <signpost> at any rate these glimpses into longer culture I've gotten by chatting with you gents have always been useful, if half-understood.
71d34343fcebcfa1…fcebcfa1…2023-02-20 19:47:06 <phf> but if you're mediocre AND fucked by the circumstances, then your life is substaintally worse
8d294cf1fcebcfa1…d4a82aff…2023-02-20 19:47:09 <asciilifeform> well in locales w/ conscript armies, theoretically is 'cross section of erryone' rather than economic bottom
67028441ee7abd2d…2f225cb6…2023-01-18 21:47:57 <asciilifeform> ( a robo-guitarist that actually plays with vaguely humanoid 'hand' would be evenmoar imho interesting )
e3cd2cc7985fb698…985fb698…2023-09-21 20:30:33 <unpx> I see that the Maymounkov-Mazieres' protocol require to interact each time the peer table is updated. I dunno if pest was tested in roaming situation (for example train).
7cddbb30b1fac3d9…ce6a5510…2022-10-31 20:25:07 <phf> and in the second case "free comms" don't buy much either, since you know, when i call my biz partner i'm pretty sure both ALEXA and SIRI are passively listening to our conversation in his house
d2fc8e99214710d7…1922d50d…2022-12-10 15:44:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018090 << 'prison aint war, no one comes out a hero'(tm)(r)(ru)
e3201a1d8d294cf1…71d34343…2023-02-20 19:48:45 <phf> if you're a mediocre city person, you have bullshit paper shuffling jobs, that will you and wife enough to have some kind of breathing space (or so i heard). in a place where you have near to nothing as far as urban social infrastructure, you are significantly restricted in what your mediocrity can bring you
5cf38316e3cd2cc7…e3cd2cc7…2023-09-21 20:32:55 <unpx> The other encoding is more like p2p where you request an n-bytes file and the sender computes n+r-bytes stream, with r the estimated packet loss (I dunno if it can be guessed based on pest traffic).
9e6d10e77cddbb30…b1fac3d9…2022-10-31 20:25:16 <signpost> it's for when the US starts falling apart, not a larp about doing so helping it. to my mind one wants to get as much alternative structure in place and hope the place shakes hard enough that the crust falls away, new structure remains.
316309c3d2fc8e99…d2fc8e99…2022-12-10 15:45:09 <asciilifeform> possibly clue to why 'usa has no heroes', come to think of it.
a0458b25d2fc8e99…b0ca9c8a…2022-12-10 15:46:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-10 10:24:22 phf[awt]: maybe journalists in the 80s movies. "he's an american journalist! send in the seals! no journalist left behind!" etc
873c9215e3201a1d…e3201a1d…2023-02-20 19:49:59 <phf> but to the original point of "east ohio is where zogbot come from, so why no respect", argument is that this mediocity translates into often discussed "came back from service eats shit, instead of revolution"
964334b78833f5ec…8833f5ec…2023-01-18 21:48:46 <asciilifeform> the 'over9000 actuators' thing feels like 'fishing with dynamite'
4ce379d45cf38316…5cf38316…2023-09-21 20:36:50 <unpx> From my understanding, the only thing a pest station may guess from recent messages is that it can reach a certain peer through a list of peers, and spread the messages to them to increase chances.
df6e08b09e6d10e7…7cddbb30…2022-10-31 20:27:04 <phf> nd the second case with economic partnerns is kind of more interesting anyway, because nobody wants to be an amish. i mean it makes sense when you're zero skill urbanite, moving to a zendik farm to raise chickens. for me to raise chickens is like the least possible leveraged economic activity, whether or behalf of the spec
0fb46fd9873c9215…873c9215…2023-02-20 19:52:27 <phf> army service in this respect is a lot of opportunity, besides $20k/yr and your teeth fixed. e.g. if you operated heavy machinery, can now run a delivery truck or construction equipment in civ, without having to indentured slave yourself through respective education process
bfa713a0964334b7…ee7abd2d…2023-01-18 21:49:35 <phf> i suspect that's a difference between "cyborg bayaner builds in ussr" and "boston dynamics spends DOD money on guitar player hand"
d664bf9b4ce379d4…4ce379d4…2023-09-21 20:46:33 <unpx> l <= m, m is not the message size, but the exponent in F_{q^m}. Will try to simplify a bit and make an example.
07642299df6e08b0…df6e08b0…2022-10-31 20:27:04 <phf> tacle, or for the benefit of a hypothetical amish/hasidic closed society
52bc0c8dfc9bb376…316309c3…2022-12-10 15:45:45 <asciilifeform> 'join us army! die for some fat sow's right to marry her dog'(tm)(r)(mp)
fca49c7cbfa713a0…964334b7…2023-01-18 21:50:16 <asciilifeform> hmm did the latter ever barnum-demo a robo-musician? ( asciilifeform recalls a rigged robo-pingpongist )
fd4dadecd664bf9b…d664bf9b…2023-09-21 20:51:13 <unpx> There are so many layers of vector spaces I can't be more precise right now heh
902279eb07642299…9e6d10e7…2022-10-31 20:28:55 <signpost> yeah, I don't know if it's my own arrogance that'll kill me, but I've already lived on a subsistence farm for a few years, and that was enough.
0d889e8607642299…81761536…2022-10-31 20:29:41 <signpost> I checked out to the other side of the divorce precisely because "this is it?"
a8482aab52bc0c8d…221d86e2…2022-12-10 15:48:00 <phf> signpost, see i don't know what drove whelan to become a hero, but from ru perspective, it's not a rationalizable thing. one doesn't become a razvedchik for the clout, but because it's "self evidently" the right thing to do. from this perspective the mockery of "zogbot" is just ano Uvx 'З%!
L!rxCI}&
5d801865ce52c53f…ce52c53f…2023-02-20 19:53:50 <phf> east palestine, oh is not appalachia, it's midlands. it's east of pittsburg, and pitt famously has an identity crisis about it's belonging. but at least pitt sits in the last of the appalachia hills
c8d65f58fca49c7c…fca49c7c…2023-01-18 21:51:08 asciilifeform what meant was, pianola/'guitarola' defo 'pushed state of the art envelope' in 1800 but not so much today
364538f4fd4dadec…fd4dadec…2023-09-21 20:57:35 <unpx> signpost: do you have an idea of what a transfer protocol could look like? Because from what it looks like, bdl looks like there are seeders that broadcast available files, and once selected it start sending stuff until it reaches the end, and eventually restart sending missing stuff.
81761536902279eb…902279eb…2022-10-31 20:29:19 <signpost> because it's too damned stable. it *can* run like that forever.
3ecff7ad0d889e86…0d889e86…2022-10-31 20:31:43 signpost has a sinus migraine acting up, will return when the pill kicks in.
ac619b22a8482aab…a8482aab…2022-12-10 15:48:00 <phf> ther side of this nation without cultural and social cohesion coin Uvx 'З%!
L!rxCI}&
6179f7285d801865…1ef1f4c0…2023-02-20 19:55:53 <signpost> hey fair enough. I should've been more clear. the guy on twitter was referencing this idea that the "good old boys" are repeatedly called upon to defend "like they always have".
169a853bc8d65f58…c8d65f58…2023-01-18 21:52:06 <asciilifeform> that is, is laudable from pov of 'not vodka, not meth, not souped up ford pinto' but not exactly 'invent'
edcfc43c364538f4…364538f4…2023-09-21 21:01:04 unpx reminds himself to read logs http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010640
802f74373ecff7ad…07642299…2022-10-31 20:32:20 <phf> i sort of entertain the thought of doing a beef farm, but i'm going at it xach beane (quicklisp guy) way: have lots of money to buy all the equipment that real farmers spend decades loaning and assembling
eb903e4aac619b22…ac619b22…2022-12-10 15:49:20 <phf> a russian wouldn't see whelan as a "well meaning guy" or "dilusional guy who got tricked by the system" or any of these things. one becomes a razvedchik because one is that caliber of a person.
87a4fb316179f728…6179f728…2023-02-20 19:56:10 <signpost> I'm skeptical there's enough good stock *anywhere* to "like they always have"
b38cff55169a853b…169a853b…2023-01-18 21:53:28 <asciilifeform> ( then again asciilifeform not necessarily qualified to opine, given as errything he baked so far much closer to 'pinto' than what folx in heroic age did )
77643b89edcfc43c…ee24fa99…2023-09-21 21:01:06 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 23:35:28 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010637 << when mentioned earlier, flamed
19c64137802f7437…802f7437…2022-10-31 20:33:31 <phf> but that's a "boy from russia who watched too many john wayne movies" version of "retiring to own a winery in CA"
54ea64b5eb903e4a…fc9bb376…2022-12-10 15:50:18 <signpost> to guess from analogy from my own life, my great grandfather was a highly decorated ww1 vet. that signal attenuated over the generations, to the point where I was the first non .mil in as long.
45431d8487a4fb31…87a4fb31…2023-02-20 19:56:44 <signpost> and this picture of the sons of those good-old-boys huddled around call of duty rings true.
07d6cb8eb38cff55…bfa713a0…2023-01-18 21:56:12 <phf> well, solenoid based approach is i assume straightforwardly mechanical, "robot hand" involves lots of high precison servos and a whole bunch of multidimensional differential geometry with nonlinear systems
51a7d84477643b89…edcfc43c…2023-09-21 21:21:41 <unpx> To me, the bdl requires a dht, so I'm not sure how this could be adapted to pest. But I will ponder.
7d1a78dd19c64137…c0bab2a1…2022-10-31 20:44:45 <asciilifeform> nuffin wrong with 'marie antoinette farm' as hobby, if no illusions re wat it is
57e727e054ea64b5…54ea64b5…2022-12-10 15:50:32 <signpost> the "something to be imitated/worshipped" goes away without whatever the hell isn't in US
c924131d45431d84…5d801865…2023-02-20 19:57:08 phf reaching behind his chair, not sure what to pick up, a banjo, or a 3030 lever action
9f58dc1407d6cb8e…b38cff55…2023-01-18 21:56:36 asciilifeform had precisely 1 'proper' invention, but not had resources to actually demonstrate in flesh, so cannot be counted
2843b97551a7d844…4d1ce081…2023-09-21 21:54:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-21#1030364 << this was an explicit design goal (see sect. 1.7 of spec) and in fact tested, iirc phf in fact at least once was speaking from actual train, via gsm box
d7de29897d1a78dd…7d1a78dd…2022-10-31 20:49:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014875 << if you've got spare cycles, do consider to say moar. catastrophic shortage of just about anyffin on the net naodays re subj
acb4ef32c924131d…45431d84…2023-02-20 19:57:18 <signpost> at any rate, hopefully the partition of ukraine goes smoothly.
87fe93c79f58dc14…9cb63a67…2023-01-18 21:56:37 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-12-05 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: your cable flexer?
1144e9242843b975…9b01db1c…2023-09-21 21:56:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-21 16:32:33 unpx[jonsykkel|signpost]: I see that the Maymounkov-Mazieres' protocol require to interact each time the peer table is updated. I dunno if pest was tested in roaming situation (for example train).
3644901ad7de2989…42cff598…2022-10-31 20:50:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:06:17 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, i've been rereading some old common lisp threads, mostly because i'm hacking genera in my spare time and the kind of questions i want answers to have not been raised since early 2000s
23ba5e9a2dcfa309…eb903e4a…2022-12-10 15:51:30 <phf> and from that same perspective there's no shame in fighting for your country, even if your country is being otherwise "taken away from you". those are lateral concerns, see, the question is not why zogbot zogbot, but why he doesn't custer's last stand on own soil
4cfbad63acb4ef32…abb49bbd…2023-02-20 20:07:03 awt anticipates reading, in the post-apocalyptic era, phf's b00k "Empire in America" a follow up to de Tocqueville with rich and detailed classifications of american types.
098b552a1144e924…2843b975…2023-09-21 21:56:28 <asciilifeform> re p2p warez, the notion is that you ask a set of peers to start fountaining at you, and they do so for a certain time, after which -- if you haven't the pieces you need -- you ask'em again, and so forth until you have'em
a5593a7b3644901a…d7de2989…2022-10-31 20:50:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014877 << d00d left to archaeologists very little other than some (very suggestive of having 'done real work'(tm)) usenet posts (which asciilifeform collected here)
e4ebf3dd23ba5e9a…23ba5e9a…2022-12-10 15:52:57 <phf> focusing on "zogbot" part is in my opinion ennui, but see once you start exploring the custer question, you're suddenly outside of the safety of acceptable discourse
f8c030ad4cfbad63…8d294cf1…2023-02-20 21:08:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023989 << almost 'fishing with dynamite', but hard to resist pointing out that the last time these folx 'defended' any place they had any biz being in to start with, was... 1812?
39d24dbdff476953…ff476953…2023-01-18 21:57:34 asciilifeform still sometimes asked by meatwot folx 'hey didja build it yet'
92554ba2098b552a…098b552a…2023-09-21 21:57:25 <asciilifeform> the moar familiar scenario where you have nfi who exactly you're asking, and who you expect will answer, is not applicable in pest
749bb90ea5593a7b…3644901a…2022-10-31 20:51:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:07:47 phf[awt]: man had no chill, and outside of a handful of highly insightful posts he was mostly an unhinged psycho
2146048ce4ebf3dd…e4ebf3dd…2022-12-10 15:55:31 <phf> russia is full of "came back from great war, realized country is a mess, decided to do something about it" stories, so this internal incoherency is self-resolvable. razvedchik always remains a razvedchik even if he's the last true russian so to speak
c29a4e91f8c030ad…5374d789…2023-02-20 21:09:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 14:57:08 signpost: hey fair enough. I should've been more clear. the guy on twitter was referencing this idea that the "good old boys" are repeatedly called upon to defend "like they always have".
4c6e2fc539d24dbd…39d24dbd…2023-01-18 22:03:26 <asciilifeform> imho a truly spectacular demo for high power-to-weight (& low complexity) actuator would be... 20metre rubber 'wings' (i.e. ornithopter, and not idjit 1900s flap-flap but 'ride air currents')
25a19fd992554ba2…0f60351a…2023-09-21 22:00:15 <signpost> something like who-haz $hash; i-haz $hash; pls-send-up-to $hash $blockCount
617c98cd749bb90e…a5593a7b…2022-10-31 20:52:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014880 << per asciilifeform , q has an answer, and w/out invoking gods
595053df2146048c…2dcfa309…2022-12-10 15:56:07 <signpost> a country with long history would've come back from many of these near-extinctions, makes sense.
5cf12b68c29a4e91…f8c030ad…2023-02-20 21:53:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023984 << extending on this: asciilifeform suspects that 'generic paper shufflers' for the most part end up with ~same effective (i.e. after landlord tax) wage as the 'zogbot's, on acct of local cost of life
ccebbf8e4c6e2fc5…4c6e2fc5…2023-01-18 22:05:00 asciilifeform saw a phf msg in the debug log, but seems to have gone to /dev/null ?? on dulap and desk station
7945d4b925a19fd9…25a19fd9…2023-09-21 22:00:30 <signpost> and you can request blocks from whichever of those responded in the affirmative
9f40d753617c98cd…be6f00e6…2022-10-31 20:52:11 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-01-19 ascii_butugychag: the whole point of engineering is to cut apart the happenstance-linked crud from what you actually want.
b83dec7a617c98cd…749bb90e…2022-10-31 20:53:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:09:01 signpost: hears phf asking what the hell the cultural substrate of the engineering ought to be.
81a3ec6e595053df…595053df…2022-12-10 15:56:41 <signpost> probably the existence of this recurring literary character embodied is a helpful ingredient.
023d37055cf12b68…c29a4e91…2023-02-20 21:54:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 14:50:01 phf[awt|deedbot]: if you're a mediocre city person, you have bullshit paper shuffling jobs, that will you and wife enough to have some kind of breathing space (or so i heard). in a place where you have near to nothing as far as urban social infrastructure, you are significantly restricted in w
6ead96737945d4b9…7945d4b9…2023-09-21 22:00:49 <signpost> and of course they can decide they dun wanna, and you just request more blocks from the willing.
98068522b83dec7a…3ecff7ad…2022-10-31 20:53:26 <signpost> consider god a term of art in context of the thread.
ac1ee77f81a3ec6e…2146048c…2022-12-10 15:59:17 <phf> but in u.s. you don't have stories of zogbot who custered and were proven right for it, because the foundational myth is so strong
aa01c98a023d3705…5cf12b68…2023-02-20 21:55:15 <asciilifeform> ( if 'naked eye observations' mean anyffin, the 'zogbot' is in fact typically the winner in this comparison )
9ec267ff690050d3…690050d3…2023-01-18 22:05:47 <asciilifeform> was 'applying force to steel string is probably just the right kind of poc for any kind of alternative actuator'
fd6712306ead9673…6ead9673…2023-09-21 22:01:26 <signpost> iirc maymounkov et al came up with a more complicated scheme; I've forgotten now, but I don't see a need for something more complicated than the above.
c479efd3ac1ee77f…ac1ee77f…2022-12-10 16:00:52 <phf> there's always gotta be a scene where brigadier general realizes that He Was Wrong, salutes his men, and dies valiantly, in an attempt to restrore the honor of his title
57792587aa01c98a…aa01c98a…2023-02-20 21:56:27 <asciilifeform> reich appears to 'price' both types of mediocrity roughly similarly.
25c3ac239ec267ff…9ec267ff…2023-01-18 22:06:09 asciilifeform thought it was the embargo buffer thing, but apparently not !
df6a06d4fd671230…92554ba2…2023-09-22 00:12:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-21#1030361 << in general, the only sort of protocol that you defo ~can't~ build on pest, is the kind which requires talking to strangers
7a5f6a3ffd671230…51f4fcfd…2023-09-26 06:21:21 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-22#1030908 << even jonsek is nowhere to be seen
51257bfe5ad428dd…5ad428dd…2022-10-31 20:54:25 <asciilifeform> man doomed to engineer ever since forgot how to grow own fur etc
be577a60c479efd3…c479efd3…2022-12-10 16:06:38 <phf> also come to think of it, being a razvedchik puts you in a pantheon, because there's been plenty of wars where russia was unambiguously the wronged party, plenty of it captured in literary characters, yes
71674cac57792587…c924131d…2023-02-20 21:57:09 <phf> can shoot coyots from back porch VS authentic tamales next door
39c0da2225c3ac23…ec263791…2023-01-18 22:06:12 <phf> if i say anything though (like this message) presumably all the missing out parties will rerequest it
ebe77daadf6a06d4…1144e924…2023-09-22 00:14:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-21 16:25:55 unpx[jonsykkel|signpost]: I would like to know what kind of protocol can be built on top of pest, and which can't.
15abc3687a5f6a3f…7b08d01f…2023-09-26 06:21:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-22 11:37:44 asciilifeform: sad re phf walking off. the list of folx who actually have time & energy to do anyffin of interest is nao very short ( possibly just signpost ? )
b4e8327b51257bfe…51257bfe…2022-10-31 20:54:34 <asciilifeform> reqs no philosophies, in the simplest case.
45efd500be577a60…be577a60…2022-12-10 16:08:43 <phf> that's why for example a high intelligence anti-rus argument is that if one wants to prevent another ukrain or whatever, one needs to get rid of russian literature
58e56982ebe77daa…df6a06d4…2023-09-22 00:12:26 <asciilifeform> literally errything else, in principle -- can.
08cfcb4eebe77daa…2d814ebb…2023-09-22 01:12:48 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-21#1030373 << I did this as well, and worked quite fine on mobile device (using the recipe documented here: http://btc.info.gf/blog/adventures-in-pest-testnet---connecting-an-android-device.html )
5136772c15abc368…7a5f6a3f…2023-09-26 06:24:54 <crtdaydreams> if anyone wants some lulz, I've lurked the imageboard that vtude moderates a couple times, and without fail found that across multiple threads (making some assumptions here) the d00d is pedalling pestronics despite not actively participating
3f909d1ab4e8327b…98068522…2022-10-31 20:54:53 <signpost> well, and have discourse ever since eyes in front, not back
33e2f85f45efd500…45efd500…2022-12-10 16:26:02 <phf> asciilifeform, you still read tiphareth? i started thinking about this "high intelligence anti-rus argument", went to check out what he's been up to. мрак
bb4420962836bf52…4cfbad63…2023-02-21 13:36:08 <awt> Physical attacks on the U.S. power grid rose 71% last year
fb21009d08cfcb4e…ebe77daa…2023-09-22 01:13:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-21 17:56:27 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-21#1030364 << this was an explicit design goal (see sect. 1.7 of spec) and in fact tested, iirc phf in fact at least once was speaking from actual train, via gsm box
b188e1585136772c…5136772c…2023-09-26 06:26:10 <crtdaydreams> makes me wonder if he's managed to kickstart an alternative pestnet
43643a6d3f909d1a…b4e8327b…2022-10-31 20:58:42 <asciilifeform> not seen anyone (not even mp) suggest that 'shoemaker makes shoes because, see, cuckoldry'
ddc5334133e2f85f…52bc0c8d…2022-12-10 16:33:32 <asciilifeform> phf: not looked for ~yr iirc. ( do link if he has new & lulzy crackpottery, last asciilifeform saw he seemed like '1 trick pony' )
1b01cc84fb21009d…08cfcb4e…2023-09-22 01:14:16 shinohai has been behind curtain, experimenting with pentacle - got it running in a qemu vm after building custom initramfs and recompiling busybox to use `CONFIG_RUN_PARTS` so could ifup/down and ssh in remotely ....
a356df8f43643a6d…43643a6d…2022-10-31 20:58:54 <asciilifeform> while engineering simply reduces to 'make shoe differently from how grandfather made'
29ddb265ddc53341…ddc53341…2022-12-10 16:38:22 <asciilifeform> ( for the innocent, tiphareth was(is?) a ru maths d00d who escaped to brazil on acct of 'cruelty of putler'(tm), and professes a strange mix of philosophies, comprised of traditional orc self-hatred & fellatio for 'internationalkomyoonity' -- but somehow simult. disdain for 'globohomo' )
d1d760e91b01cc84…51a7d844…2023-09-22 08:34:16 <unpx> asciilifeform: sure, but also heresay will be a thing to consider better
eeebc881a356df8f…3f909d1a…2022-10-31 20:59:12 <signpost> the "here is a rock" of it to my mind is that humans *do* form a hivemind as fish swim.
939e63655c302a51…70d606f3…2023-02-21 14:04:26 <awt> Introducing the Longhouse into the logs for the record.
f25a27b1eeebc881…a356df8f…2022-10-31 20:59:25 <asciilifeform> folx who 'luvvv stability' (because see selves as on 'correct side' of its barrel) do ask 'why make differently'
b9c94b44a54cf349…eb45a525…2022-12-10 16:39:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-02-15 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'let's drill in the deep sea' adventures : made a shot at enculturating nominally-smart folx in ru space. these ended up concluding : 1) 'qntra is paid by putin' 2) 'mp is paid by putin' 3) 'dirty liar, you've
e8a0273d939e6365…2836bf52…2023-02-21 14:54:20 asciilifeform looked. imho ponderously 'paleocon', can almost smell the poor sad fucks, in their 70s-80s
d4c2add0dba72e2e…dba72e2e…2023-09-22 08:38:12 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-21#1030882 <<< my comment was on bdl
d0ef32e8e343952d…e343952d…2023-09-26 06:38:10 <crtdaydreams> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl1f1fpbKjQ
b6110efef25a27b1…b83dec7a…2022-10-31 21:00:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:30:16 signpost: because it's too damned stable. it *can* run like that forever.
cf24cb14b9c94b44…b9c94b44…2022-12-10 16:39:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-02-15 asciilifeform: fella whose site (maffs prof! currently in brazil) , didn't disappoint : 'qntra? a deeply kgbistic site. just look... or could be simpletons, pushing propaganda liquishit for putler for free...'
4b421e0de8a0273d…939e6365…2023-02-21 14:55:45 <awt> It is a paleocon take on the subject, but the origin is not paleocon.
7d7983afd4c2add0…77643b89…2023-09-22 08:38:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-21 17:56:29 asciilifeform: re p2p warez, the notion is that you ask a set of peers to start fountaining at you, and they do so for a certain time, after which -- if you haven't the pieces you need -- you ask'em again, and so forth until you have'em
4db99ca0d0ef32e8…d0ef32e8…2023-09-26 06:40:13 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-09-23#1115217 << konnichiwa muthafucka!
3e92ce01b6110efe…eeebc881…2022-10-31 20:59:30 <signpost> any given human mind is the product of its "being-with" the hivemind it inhabits
9f250d96cf24cb14…a54cf349…2022-12-10 16:42:07 <asciilifeform> highlight of the episode was where he concluded that asciilifeform was a full colonel in kgb, and top linguist there, or 'how else he could do this?' etc
1120841fcf24cb14…33e2f85f…2022-12-10 16:44:35 <phf> my favorite bit is that they took issue with you writing 123$ instead of $123 "aha! nobody living in u.s. would write it like the former!"
a46ad9ff4b421e0d…4b421e0d…2023-02-21 15:01:57 <awt> I believe the origin is from Bronze Age Mindset: "People at all times try to domesticate each other. Language is used to clobber and deceive others into submission and domestication. Ideas and arguments and stories are manufactured for the same. The modern world is no different in this regard from any wretched tribal socie
14c808a17d7983af…d4c2add0…2023-09-22 08:42:56 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-21#1030887 <<< after reviewing it better, bdl is exactly what I said, a "spray and pray". And you even extend the message length in hope the receiver is able to solve the random jigsaw. At that point you just run a DHT as ascii explained above, without coding.
6b3b9fc64db99ca0…15abc368…2023-09-26 06:40:07 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-23 Vex: wizardlm via the bloke
2ce92ada3e92ce01…3e92ce01…2022-10-31 21:00:02 <signpost> best men, hivemind even more with the dead than the living.
b74a743fa46ad9ff…a46ad9ff…2023-02-21 15:01:58 <awt> ty. I'm sure that Europe prior to the Bronze Age, before the coming of the Aryans, was
7b08d01f14c808a1…7d7983af…2023-09-22 08:42:58 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-21 18:01:27 signpost[asciilifeform]: iirc maymounkov et al came up with a more complicated scheme; I've forgotten now, but I don't see a need for something more complicated than the above.
fab539fa6b3b9fc6…4db99ca0…2023-09-26 06:40:47 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-09-22#1115190 grrrrrrrrrr
73c3e3b22ce92ada…2ce92ada…2022-10-31 21:01:03 <signpost> might not even need philosophy to leap to "improving hivemind-ation". just wait until the guys that did come and kill you.
28ced838a35f0160…a35f0160…2022-12-10 16:45:17 <asciilifeform> thing is, fella not least bit schizo, simply working from martian priors. he picked a satan for his pantheon, errything else followed.
55c73130b74a743f…b74a743f…2023-02-21 15:01:59 <awt> similar to modern Europe. People lived in communal longhouses and were likely browbeaten and ruled by obese mammies who instilled in them socialism and feminism. Most of those so-called males of the longhouse age were probably similar to the modern leftist "herb" who doesn't lift. Which is why those societies were so easil
83fc07807b08d01f…14c808a1…2023-09-22 11:39:43 <unpx> Moreover, digging around, the author is the same that proposed the current DHT stuff https://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html
b3d7f3c8fab539fa…6b3b9fc6…2023-09-26 06:40:42 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-22 Vex: Hola pendejos
dd92becc28ced838…1120841f…2022-12-10 16:48:42 <phf> he's got an internally consistent ideology now, if you're russian and been exposed to russian culture, you're culturally infected and therefore always a vatnik. you can be allowed to participate in civilized discourse if you engage in shaming rituals and self-flagellation, but when &= ϑJf z^ # :e1Rl
daace06583fc0780…83fc0780…2023-09-22 11:39:58 <unpx> >The protocol is based on Kademila [1] and is implemented over UDP.
8cca5bd7b3d7f3c8…fab539fa…2023-09-26 06:41:56 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-09-22#1115195 << couldn't have put it better
a208c501200292cf…200292cf…2022-10-31 21:02:10 <asciilifeform> fwiw if europe hadn't turks etc nearby, could've easily sat in a reasonably stable jp-style equilibrium of 'gunpowder aint sportsmanlike'
8c9d4c8add92becc…dd92becc…2022-12-10 16:48:42 <phf> you stop performing those, will rapidly degrade back to vatnik state &= ϑJf z^ # :e1Rl
881e0ea45001d133…5001d133…2023-02-21 15:03:46 <awt> b00k can be had here: https://annas-archive.org/md5/0eb6384441047caff5787f98eb7d7a91
b333e393daace065…daace065…2023-09-22 11:40:14 <unpx> >Peter Maymounkov, David Mazieres, "Kademlia: A Peer-to-peer Information System Based on the XOR Metric"
dee6dff88cca5bd7…b3d7f3c8…2023-09-26 06:41:51 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-22 Vex: I mean, you've gotta laugh, but it's getting difficult to do it without frowning.
5f65d7668c9d4c8a…28ced838…2022-12-10 16:49:13 <asciilifeform> tiphareth's philosophy, such as it is, not differs much from that of prev. generation of anti-su emigres (e.g. asciilifeform's father), where 'orcs are rotten, the only moral thing to do if yer an orc is to walk off to some other country and fughet yer an orc'
634b46c18c9d4c8a…bad8a97b…2022-12-10 16:51:56 <signpost> just some dude, unimportant. was just entertained to encounter this flavor.
ffb873f5881e0ea4…eb256a55…2023-02-21 15:19:43 <billymg> great book imo, very entertaining and white-pilling to read as well
0c5d3238dee6dff8…8cca5bd7…2023-09-26 06:49:39 <crtdaydreams> for readers not up to date with the state of southern affairs; presuming a constitution holds any kind of weight for the man with the silver spoon, efforts are being made to "amend" it
0c517bb64392977c…19c64137…2022-10-31 21:02:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014935 << that's early greek position, very explicit in both lore (homer) and mythology (hephaestus)
1aebee745f65d766…81a3ec6e…2022-12-10 16:50:39 signpost met a russian expat liberal recently in meatspace. expounded The Science behind gender dysphoria within a few days of knowing.
877d36985f65d766…5f65d766…2022-12-10 16:50:47 <asciilifeform> ( from this pov, ukrs 'ideal orcs', to the degree that they collectively attempted this )
908ae464634b46c1…634b46c1…2022-12-10 16:54:01 <signpost> maybe he was pleading innocence of ukraine, like I give a shit. "No! I'm a good one! Would chop babies dicks off and everything!"
57bcc9a10474db0b…58e56982…2023-09-22 15:30:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-22#1030387 << nope
515561700c5d3238…0c5d3238…2023-09-26 06:57:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-09-23#1115230 << LOOL
8d593abe0c517bb6…b6110efe…2022-10-31 21:03:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:59:39 asciilifeform[5]: not seen anyone (not even mp) suggest that 'shoemaker makes shoes because, see, cuckoldry'
bad8a97b877d3698…1aebee74…2022-12-10 16:50:54 <signpost> set bozo bit and discarded. not surprising that these would leave.
e5f5c7d9908ae464…908ae464…2022-12-10 16:54:56 <signpost> tech industry is almost entirely populated by scum, as is news to no one.
d4b8d07786e0093e…e8a0273d…2023-02-21 18:55:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-21#1024003 << for coupla yrs nao, reich gearing up spin to blame infrastructural decay (from yacht conversion) on 'terrorists'(tm)(r)
c9f73c9c57bcc9a1…fb21009d…2023-09-22 15:32:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-22 04:36:13 unpx[jonsykkel|signpost]: asciilifeform: sure, but also heresay will be a thing to consider better
56a3590351556170…dee6dff8…2023-09-26 06:57:38 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-23 Vex: can I haz honda? I believe you are asking if you can have a Honda. It is not clear if this is a question about ownership or if you are inquiring about the availability of Hondas. If you are interested in buying or leasing a Honda, I recommend visiting a local Honda dealership or doing some o
eb0f81ad8d593abe…0c517bb6…2022-10-31 21:03:20 <phf> and is also an accepted historic explanation "why not greek steampunk, even though knew how"
01ea53c2e5f5c7d9…8c9d4c8a…2022-12-10 16:58:41 <phf> signpost, it's a kind of natural orc bifurcation, "i wear my jacket /thus/ in the tradition of my people's lords" and "i wear my jacket /thus/ just like you civilized folk"
3b608a16d4b8d077…b99f4663…2023-02-21 18:55:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-15 asciilifeform: ... from reich pov, plebes having savings is a bug, similarly to resistive losses in electric cable. 'pieces of yacht that got diverted'
522f7c9cd4b8d077…023d3705…2023-02-21 18:57:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-21 08:37:24 awt: Physical attacks on the U.S. power grid rose 71% last year
04394405c9f73c9c…c9f73c9c…2023-09-22 15:32:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-29 12:30:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: 1 of the reasons why the luby transfer absolutely gotta be direct-only (tho can be from >1 peer in parallel, sending diff frags)
1fd0fab956a35903…51556170…2023-09-26 06:58:35 <crtdaydreams> is it a shithub pull of some python project you're running natively, or chatgpt?
38cb4df101ea53c2…01ea53c2…2022-12-10 17:02:26 <phf> but honestly i have no idea how that process works, it is probably right and proper and natural, and is mostly chosen at random based on random factors
c65a8902522f7c9c…d4b8d077…2023-02-21 18:56:40 <asciilifeform> 'so sorry you have no mains current. whitesupremacists(tm) did it'
c89ce03e04394405…5230bec0…2023-09-22 15:37:44 asciilifeform sad re phf walking off. the list of folx who actually have time & energy to do anyffin of interest is nao very short ( possibly just signpost ? )
6f8d82b91fd0fab9…1fd0fab9…2023-09-26 07:07:51 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030927 << the sparknotes for this one is tards want to give "indigenous australians" a legislative body in oz parliament that by technicality can overrule both the senate and the house. nothing is specified about the actual role of the position, there's no definition of what
dff06896e7021750…e7021750…2022-10-31 21:03:57 <asciilifeform> 'wai do anyffin but lines of coke off back of whore, if yer not a luser' etc
a6c2f00dc65a8902…86e0093e…2023-02-21 19:03:05 <awt> Article doesn't name any particular group does it?
300beae76f8d82b9…56a35903…2023-09-26 07:07:46 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 02:49:33 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: for readers not up to date with the state of southern affairs; presuming a constitution holds any kind of weight for the man with the silver spoon, efforts are being made to "amend" it
cd4a1b7f6f8d82b9…6f8d82b9…2023-09-26 07:07:51 <crtdaydreams> an "indigenous australian" even is (blackfella? half-caste? gypsy?) and to top
f2f8c8ccdff06896…dff06896…2022-10-31 21:04:19 <asciilifeform> ^ historic consensus of mp's on whole planet, plus or minus
3af864e0cd4a1b7f…cd4a1b7f…2023-09-26 07:07:54 <crtdaydreams> it all off there's not even a criteria of who is eligible, not even a clause about electing a candidate lmao
b875819cf2f8c8cc…4392977c…2022-10-31 21:04:59 <signpost> I'm no longer so willing to dismiss others their right to death by drowning in pussy.
58067528a32eb0c7…a32eb0c7…2022-12-11 00:30:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018130 << near as can tell, the disease actually exists (was known to e.g. freud); the flimflam part would be the supposed cures (other than bullet)
2cd383703583aced…3583aced…2023-09-26 21:02:06 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030938 << no shit. did I imply that it's a bad thing?
697c93b3b875819c…b875819c…2022-10-31 21:05:08 <signpost> life's plenty hopeless. for those that want out, go.
a01dbb6a58067528…a0458b25…2022-12-11 00:31:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-10 11:51:51 signpost: met a russian expat liberal recently in meatspace. expounded The Science behind gender dysphoria within a few days of knowing.
ba798f5ebdc03002…bdc03002…2023-02-21 19:03:50 <asciilifeform> 'The number of politically or ideologically motivated attacks appears to be growing' but w/ no names named aha
f7040c4a2cd38370…66b9bce1…2023-09-26 21:02:00 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 11:27:37 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-26#1030409 << rather the whole point of pestronics, neh !! thinkaboutit.
b567a7c4697c93b3…eb0f81ad…2022-10-31 21:05:09 <phf> i'm pretty sure, given mp's background, he took it directly from greeks. tbh i didn't even doubt that that's his source of thinking, by early conversation on subj
6535d52ba01dbb6a…58067528…2022-12-11 00:35:49 <asciilifeform> ( if you think about it, what'd be involved in 'cure' for this makes e.g. general cure for cancer look trivial )
80731703ba798f5e…e53a451d…2023-02-21 19:04:39 <awt> We don't know who they were but we know they were ideological.
f85bd5a01e79a997…8cdaad52…2023-09-26 15:27:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-26#1030409 << rather the whole point of pestronics, neh !! thinkaboutit.
68980168f7040c4a…c3cb4cd7…2023-09-26 21:03:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 02:27:57 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: makes me wonder if he's managed to kickstart an alternative pestnet
f44c56a6b567a7c4…f2f8c8cc…2022-10-31 21:05:19 <asciilifeform> and naturally filtered-for in 'classical education', where larval mp is asked to read aristotle, but certainly not archimedes etc
9d0ae2bd6535d52b…6535d52b…2022-12-11 00:36:53 <asciilifeform> soo as inescapably happens in case like this, the quacks, charlatans, got involved.
3a9b8368f85bd5a0…04394405…2023-09-26 15:29:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 02:27:57 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: makes me wonder if he's managed to kickstart an alternative pestnet
184314f668980168…2cd38370…2023-09-26 21:03:19 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030940 << versimilitude, though I fail to understand how it's not clear
cce59bcef44c56a6…f44c56a6…2022-10-31 21:05:30 <asciilifeform> directly, indeed, from greeks. these greeks.
e2868c319d0ae2bd…9d0ae2bd…2022-12-11 00:37:34 <asciilifeform> same folx who prescribed hg for syphilis 100y ago.
7db57c2a3a9b8368…f85bd5a0…2023-09-26 15:28:50 <asciilifeform> he ( who? wasn't cleaar from thrd, verisimilitude? or was phf? ) not needs to ask asciilifeform & co for blessing before running a net, or making whatever own riff on protocol, or whatnot.
b6a7924d184314f6…f7040c4a…2023-09-26 21:03:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 11:28:51 asciilifeform: he ( who? wasn't cleaar from thrd, verisimilitude? or was phf? ) not needs to ask asciilifeform & co for blessing before running a net, or making whatever own riff on protocol, or whatnot.
89b5eed2cce59bce…cce59bce…2022-10-31 21:06:21 <asciilifeform> the techno-impotence of 'the greeks'(tm) was 'gift that kept on giving' for 1500+y
ffe342c3e2868c31…5ef8439e…2022-12-11 02:22:49 <awt> This is who the openai chatbot thinks asciilifeform is: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=y-sd
e2f099fa314e8556…acb4ef32…2023-02-21 19:05:22 <signpost> being technology, they are overtly yt-supremacist.
edb9015d7db57c2a…7db57c2a…2023-09-26 15:31:27 <asciilifeform> nao, the likely result of course is this, but what does asciilifeform know, maybe company of forumtards is better company than the folx who devised, in collaboration, the shiny toy, whoknows...
6087bc02b6a7924d…184314f6…2023-09-26 21:16:50 <crtdaydreams> wtf did this stem from? is your immediate impression that I'm some kind of gatekeeper?
f61cb5d789b5eed2…b567a7c4…2022-10-31 21:07:29 <phf> arete for example originally associated with manly arts, strength bravey wit, as demonstrated by e.g. odysseus proving his standing to phaeacians by participating in a kind of proto-olympic event. throwing spear and such
7b6165ffffe342c3…ffe342c3…2022-12-11 02:27:55 <awt> Prompt: Write an inspiring speech in the voice of Hitler about AI: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=K5Te
b55d7dc2e2f099fa…314e8556…2023-02-21 19:06:01 <awt> The casings found had right wing characteristics.
a3dd14f6edb9015d…3a9b8368…2023-09-26 15:33:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 13:32:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: signpost: matters, evidently, to the fella who too proud to write in re fg schems when 'i have no idea why was done this way' etc
859a908f6087bc02…6087bc02…2023-09-26 21:35:18 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030946 << the metaphorical church of asciilifeform seems to be inherent only in your mind.
99f5a294f61cb5d7…697c93b3…2022-10-31 21:08:15 <signpost> asciilifeform: I think the problem with taking will-to-technology as the whole of system of thought is "here is a rock" becomes "here is antimatter" as time goes on.
070047c8b55d7dc2…e2f099fa…2023-02-21 19:06:19 signpost recently learned that the tiktok whores braying their exophilia are using "yt" as some kind of self-effacing slur.
3c312540a3dd14f6…edb9015d…2023-09-26 15:33:44 <asciilifeform> linked folx, incidentally, have 'own trb' with buncha python in it. wainot.
edf709dd859a908f…b6a7924d…2023-09-26 21:35:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 11:37:25 asciilifeform: cuz it's a shite biz, running 'churches'. mp started with $maxint and ended feeding fishes, and not even adequately 'scratched own itches' at any point, by the looks of it. even if had been 'success', like e.g. l. r. hubbard -- still sum to 0
c8a1908499f5a294…f61cb5d7…2022-10-31 21:08:33 <phf> but same odysseus was suspected of being low-key fag for being crafty in his approach, to e.g. war. sneaking into troy first on an expedition and then using trojan horse, etc. he gets called out for this kind of faggy behavior bunch of times.
5ae54de09a833e90…9a833e90…2022-12-11 04:32:13 <asciilifeform> 'known for... his advocacy for alternative cryptocurrencies such as Decred and Monero. He is also the author of several open-source software projects, including the V patch series, which improves the security of the Unix operating system'
63c7e9133c312540…3c312540…2023-09-26 15:34:48 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform not runs 'church', not pronounces anathemas, aint in that biz and not interested in getting in.
893317c8c8a19084…99f5a294…2022-10-31 21:08:38 <signpost> (and all of our attempts at the implied problem are bad)
209456a363c7e913…300beae7…2023-09-26 15:34:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-02-04 asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's cosmography, движуха is ~harmful~. like cocaine. it is ~not~ ultimately a win, for folx to sit around 'tripping' while suffering the illusion of thinking.
85187028d841ee5a…d841ee5a…2023-09-26 21:40:54 <crtdaydreams> mp is dead, tsmr died with him. I don't think anyone left around here is delusional enough to consider you as some kind of replacement, nor this channel as a tsmr 2.0
8cc7a6adbbab1cee…bbab1cee…2022-12-11 04:33:28 asciilifeform fondly remembers playing w/ shannonizers in '90s, but this is next level of lul
739eba3ebbab1cee…38cb4df1…2022-12-11 05:39:14 <phf> is there something you need to tell us, asciilifeform
c565f8c4209456a3…63c7e913…2023-09-26 15:37:24 <asciilifeform> cuz it's a shite biz, running 'churches'. mp started with $maxint and ended feeding fishes, and not even adequately 'scratched own itches' at any point, by the looks of it. even if had been 'success', like e.g. l. r. hubbard -- still sum to 0
9d9e426a45822113…45822113…2022-10-31 21:09:48 <signpost> it's interesting that manliness is oriented in the softer direction here. towards idealized game.
c2aa9488739eba3e…739eba3e…2022-12-11 06:02:37 <phf> hmm, vex never did setup his pest station to provide us with next level beats
44d845a3c565f8c4…c565f8c4…2023-09-26 15:40:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-26#1030420 << lolwat, wtf diff does it make to anyone, australian 'constitution' ? ( next let's contemplate zimbabwean constitution..? )
f09bdb1dae9e0a82…ae9e0a82…2023-09-26 21:42:17 <crtdaydreams> it's arguable it died long before, but that was the nail in the coffin
54ad24699d9e426a…c8a19084…2022-10-31 21:10:59 <phf> and of course hephaestus, god of craft and smithing, was _the_ original cuckold, married as he was to aphrodite (due to no doubt all dat sillicon valley bucks) bunch of mythos is her sleeping around, and him seething, but not being able to do much about it, for he is a cripple otherwise, and lacks manhood to put her in che
43a5a5179d9e426a…89b5eed2…2022-10-31 21:11:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: recall, pertinently, that 'spartan writes with his sword'(tm). we tend to hear, via written word, from the 'softer' 'manlies' only.
fb8bcb8ceb0aa264…a9dfe850…2023-02-21 19:07:35 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=the+wail&chan=trilema
c3cb4cd744d845a3…a3dd14f6…2023-09-26 15:42:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 02:51:27 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: for readers not up to date with the state of southern affairs; presuming a constitution holds any kind of weight for the man with the silver spoon, efforts are being made to "amend" it
243bba33f09bdb1d…f09bdb1d…2023-09-26 21:46:48 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030947 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-09-22#1115194
72d3109943a5a517…9f40d753…2022-10-31 21:11:05 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-10-13 asciilifeform: dun forget the 'height of the towers' tho. pretty much all of the samurai poetry / arts / etc come from the period where jp had already been properly divvied up, and the swordsmen were living fast off guaranteed kokus of rice, rather than daily raid
fbf2646f6df10b7c…6df10b7c…2022-12-11 06:12:42 <phf> where are they now? fake and gay. i guess tankian has a legitimate cause of armenian genocide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM2wO6eQdns
95c64232c3cb4cd7…44d845a3…2023-09-26 15:44:59 asciilifeform has 0 interest in 'bottle shaking', impressing dimwits, gathering mindless followers 'under the flag', etc., firmly sees such activity as dead end
f60aeb63243bba33…edf709dd…2023-09-26 21:51:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 11:40:10 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-26#1030420 << lolwat, wtf diff does it make to anyone, australian 'constitution' ? ( next let's contemplate zimbabwean constitution..? )
4f90eed5243bba33…243bba33…2023-09-27 05:11:56 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030972 << quite frankly, I have never had any interest in kicking around the corpse of all the "could've beens" tmsr was. when I initially joined #asciilifeform shortly after mp ended up sleeping the fishes, I had nil understanding of the history of tmsr, wotronics, et cetera
9f974dd872d31099…efebaebf…2022-10-31 21:11:55 <signpost> probably right and proper means of nature tending away from waste.
845850eafbf2646f…fbf2646f…2022-12-11 06:20:46 <phf> who would've thought that fucking morrissey would be last man standing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJRP3LRcUFg
709bb053538730a3…e967ead6…2023-02-21 19:26:14 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'yt' is ripped from neal stephenson's 'snow crash' neh
8117adb495c64232…209456a3…2023-09-26 15:45:00 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-01-06 asciilifeform: 'Imagine a witch doctor in a society that doesn’t know how to make glass. A bottle washes up on the shore. It has amazing properties. He puts it on a stick and waves it around and convinces his fellows that he has got some of those amazing properties himself.'
ac000188f60aeb63…f60aeb63…2023-09-26 21:51:19 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-22 Vex: go pick up a testnet rag, you'll read that noone likes banknotes except ur granny and criminals, and let's make the constitution editable by parliament, and assorted other fuckery.
b6c6b07ef60aeb63…68980168…2023-09-26 21:53:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 02:51:27 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: for readers not up to date with the state of southern affairs; presuming a constitution holds any kind of weight for the man with the silver spoon, efforts are being made to "amend" it
005ee7de4f90eed5…ac000188…2023-09-27 05:11:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 19:04:08 asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: before you showed up, there were folx who walked in shopping for 'replacement'. had to explain that wrong addr.
a12e33b64f90eed5…4f90eed5…2023-09-27 05:11:56 <crtdaydreams> . my interest here from the very beginning has been lisp machines. not really
2615d442dc1341c8…dc1341c8…2022-10-31 21:15:41 asciilifeform recalls the old theory where 'hero matures into god over 500y' etc
a51ccdc99f974dd8…9f974dd8…2022-10-31 21:12:21 <signpost> I brought up god because there is no "wai do" other than abstracting, elevating, and worshipping a god.
5f02e0bc9f974dd8…43a5a517…2022-10-31 21:12:30 <asciilifeform> humans fixating ritualistically on using 1 organ instead of anuther -- not new
944277cf845850ea…845850ea…2022-12-11 06:30:18 <phf> or just 27 club your way out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-I2s5zRbHg
d4e668a3709bb053…fb8bcb8c…2023-02-21 19:28:16 <signpost> don't believe that's what they're referencing
6d94464f8117adb4…95c64232…2023-09-26 15:45:59 <asciilifeform> errybody has a choice, can advance the state of the art (even if not live to see 'win'), a millimetre at a time, or can play idiot games .
2aad915fb6c6b07e…5c348ce5…2023-09-26 23:04:08 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: before you showed up, there were folx who walked in shopping for 'replacement'. had to explain that wrong addr.
a5d1428d005ee7de…bde346c8…2023-09-27 05:13:48 <crtdaydreams> it's a mammoth job to make that shit shine
fa588e12a12e33b6…a12e33b6…2023-09-27 05:11:58 <crtdaydreams> anything else. I see the utility of pest, but it's still rather futile on a heathen box. The adversary that can snoop all the packets also has the capacity to rootkit any box with ME or AMD equiv. It can only be "true free machine" if it's running on pre-2008 thinkpad + libreboot + custom linux + external rng, ofc with the
f66fddb92615d442…21f2a343…2022-10-31 21:19:50 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014923 << well, i have the whole spitoon, last know backup tapes of a handful of bolix sites. when i have free time i've been teasing out various sources from their all over the place locations. but i've been doing it from inside genera, so more time is spent either setting it up or
21f2a3435f02e0bc…192c2d17…2022-10-31 21:12:50 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah, but that's kind of the mp's "proper woman after the death of her man should spend rest of life writing about how awesome he was"
99248675944277cf…944277cf…2022-12-11 06:33:19 <phf> 27 club by way of clandestine mossad assassination!!1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utA7Z6q_dqY
66b9bce16d94464f…8117adb4…2023-09-26 15:45:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-25 asciilifeform: but in asciilifeform's lights, playing 'i'ma do the same thing as 100,000 other folx and i'ma be the one who makes bank Because Reasons' game is a waste of time
e01b1baa2aad915f…2aad915f…2023-09-26 23:06:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-26#1030454 << orig thrd not specified '$d00d may have own pestnet, a++' or '... , grr', so asciilifeform specifies, from his pov -- a++
1dab668aa5d1428d…a5d1428d…2023-09-27 05:21:08 <crtdaydreams> aside, please forgive my poor linguistics, sometimes even after reading over what I just wrote before [ENTER] my brain still manages to fill in missing words/incorrect meanings with what I intend
177f6327fa588e12…fa588e12…2023-09-27 05:11:58 <crtdaydreams> requisite that the entire codebase has been read and vetted by multiple
db9459aef66fddb9…f66fddb9…2022-10-31 21:19:50 <phf> hacking to be useful. there's obv no information on this subject anywhere
109fc267f66fddb9…8d593abe…2022-10-31 21:20:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 16:50:42 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1014875 << if you've got spare cycles, do consider to say moar. catastrophic shortage of just about anyffin on the net naodays re subj
4267085421f2a343…a51ccdc9…2022-10-31 21:13:52 <signpost> god can be "soviet spaceman" as well as zeus.
f782d8dd21f2a343…5f02e0bc…2022-10-31 21:13:53 <asciilifeform> speaking of these, hadn't looked in a while, but apparently still feb. of '22
e2bf4c1699248675…99248675…2022-12-11 06:37:58 <phf> but fuck all that, whatever happened to subcultures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgn-PWBLAs
d5a3fb53556e4560…709bb053…2023-02-21 19:29:39 asciilifeform somehow is able to live w/out knowing precisely wat is 'tiktok', what kinda whores populate it, and what kinda paraphilias they bray about, lol
7d22f8c6e01b1baa…b6c6b07e…2023-09-26 23:08:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 17:18:39 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: wtf did this stem from? is your immediate impression that I'm some kind of gatekeeper?
e5efe5681dab668a…1dab668a…2023-09-27 05:21:41 <crtdaydreams> e.g. s/sleeping the fishes/sleeping with the fishes/
bde346c8177f6327…177f6327…2023-09-27 05:12:00 <crtdaydreams> individuals, and the software stack has the latest necessary security patches (manually applied)
95293546db9459ae…2615d442…2022-10-31 21:19:55 asciilifeform sees the 'aristotelian' cosmography as product of 'thug aint happy to simply dominate others, needs to believe that he is chosen by gods'. ditto the dimwit, not happy to simply dominate via numbers, but 'hephaestus has to be a cripple and cuck'
37178ec7e2bf4c16…e2bf4c16…2022-12-11 06:44:05 <phf> based boomer counterculture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNN7dt1lJgQ
11d26d9cd5a3fb53…d5a3fb53…2023-02-21 19:30:00 asciilifeform evidently sits on 'wrong' part of the net
c831387f1ee306f2…1ee306f2…2023-09-26 15:47:37 asciilifeform prefers the company of folx who made the correct choice, without browbeating or psychotechnical wankage, even if has to sit for anuther 10y+ 'in deep space'.
6b5f604e7d22f8c6…e01b1baa…2023-09-26 23:07:22 asciilifeform thinks crtdaydreams interpreted comment very perversely, but sadly not has time to say moar, must return to pit
c40545a9e5efe568…e5efe568…2023-09-27 05:33:23 <crtdaydreams> what is any of this but a means to an end?
97382aa47e669698…7e669698…2022-10-31 21:20:59 asciilifeform regrets to inform that got nowhere useful in many yrs in re bolixology. was set to buy, finally, electron microscope ('sweet deal'), then realized has nuffin with which to shave the layers away, nor a sputtering rig...
dd96d35237178ec7…37178ec7…2022-12-11 06:50:22 <phf> in totally unrelated, this one is for vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zZ1bxr1u04
63d78cb511d26d9c…556e4560…2023-02-21 19:30:32 <signpost> nah, I'm just a sicko entertained by the decay. will spare the logs.
5c348ce5c831387f…c831387f…2023-09-26 15:50:25 <asciilifeform> want to shake bottle? shake bottle. want to discover how to make glass? discover how to make glass.
e8afe4f0c40545a9…c40545a9…2023-09-27 05:34:35 <crtdaydreams> afaik the goal has always been sane computing, tmsr just happened to be a wave that you rode in an attempt to get funding
86c4622b97382aa4…97382aa4…2022-10-31 21:21:22 <asciilifeform> and hasn't enuff 'ivories' to 'i'ma shave with buffing stone and avg together the pics'
9733b722dd96d352…dd96d352…2022-12-11 06:52:46 <phf> google recommendation algorithm is utterly confused at this point, it's giving me ads in spanish mixed with lockheed ads. fuck you, machine.
52253ac0e8afe4f0…e8afe4f0…2023-09-27 05:36:52 <crtdaydreams> you'd be the only man on the planet that has the dies to spare to crack iron gc
500c0ce186c4622b…86c4622b…2022-10-31 21:22:07 asciilifeform recv'd useful materials, even, from 'informants want to stay anonymous'(tm), but sadly these opened moar questions than answrs and not obviated the need for above
02ff992e9733b722…9733b722…2022-12-11 07:03:16 <phf> to the previous conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ip-qJXdz20
31ac52e852253ac0…52253ac0…2023-09-27 05:40:53 <crtdaydreams> if I understand correctly, the next most useful thing would be a software stack to decode a scan into verilog
6b482118500c0ce1…db9459ae…2022-10-31 21:22:15 <phf> i sent one ivory to zeptabar at peak lockdowns for it to be lost in geneva, switzerland mail distribution facility. so much for the infamous swiss clockwork
523dc8eda8d81128…a8d81128…2023-02-21 22:36:39 <phf> tiktok is about as much fun as youtube binging, which is to say some
c898f22831ac52e8…31ac52e8…2023-09-27 05:41:08 <crtdaydreams> or some other mutable representation of the hardware
39de9d836b482118…500c0ce1…2022-10-31 21:22:45 <asciilifeform> zepto fwiw not afaik to date posted even 1 actual multilayer stripdown
3ce3b923bd939f10…02ff992e…2022-12-11 15:05:13 <phf> vexposting to the max, it's a thankless job but somebody's gotta do it
828b65c9523dc8ed…523dc8ed…2023-02-21 22:38:04 <phf> i mean i understand that ascii reads nabokov in his spare time, but i've been known to occassionaly binge on "white guy plays basketball in ghetto, you won't believe what happens next!"
f532ae12c898f228…c898f228…2023-09-27 05:45:57 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-26#1030949 << that makes two of us
87e701bd39de9d83…39de9d83…2022-10-31 21:22:57 <asciilifeform> is just some d00d with microscope and afaik none of the other gear
f3cc36f23ce3b923…e5f5c7d9…2022-12-11 15:53:50 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018097 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-11#1018155
82026306828b65c9…828b65c9…2023-02-21 22:39:40 <phf> i recon "yt" originally is a black twitter thing "yt pop fkr no jk y u so dm yt lol :D:D:D:D"
a578489ff532ae12…005ee7de…2023-09-27 05:45:50 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-26 11:44:59 asciilifeform: has 0 interest in 'bottle shaking', impressing dimwits, gathering mindless followers 'under the flag', etc., firmly sees such activity as dead end
158f54c387e701bd…6b482118…2022-10-31 21:23:39 <phf> well, it's the case "first problem is we ran out of gunpowder"
7bbf02cbf3cc36f2…a01dbb6a…2022-12-11 15:54:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-10 10:46:04 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018090 << 'prison aint war, no one comes out a hero'(tm)(r)(ru)
efc8bcb982026306…82026306…2023-02-21 22:42:52 <phf> although funniest thing i heard about tiktok was from girl, she started using it when we were in russia and she would defend it "it's all beautiful skinny girls teaching you how to do wholesome things" also "horse videos", and after we moved back to u.s. "hey, you still on tiktok? ;@Cg J /]4
3e77367ca578489f…6b5f604e…2023-09-27 15:04:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030472 << see, however, e.g.
34e8624d158f54c3…87e701bd…2022-10-31 21:24:45 <asciilifeform> phf's approach -- reading the src, disasming bins, etc. is prolly the only 1 that'll ever yield anyffin, as req's only infinite patience with magnifying glass and 0 particle beams
271c92637bbf02cb…7bbf02cb…2022-12-11 15:54:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-11 01:13:49 phf[awt]: where are they now? fake and gay. i guess tankian has a legitimate cause of armenian genocide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM2wO6eQdns
ab4caf77efc8bcb9…efc8bcb9…2023-02-21 22:42:52 <phf> --- nooo ;_; all i'am getting now are fat purple haired wamen bitching about something or other" ;@Cg J /]4
35742d643e77367c…a578489f…2023-09-27 15:04:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: PeterL: if pestism catches on, will be very easy to bake a fpga prefilter, much cheaper (and lower mains current usage) than a beefy x86
ac31cb513e77367c…7d22f8c6…2023-09-27 15:06:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 01:13:50 crtdaydreams[signpost]: anything else. I see the utility of pest, but it's still rather futile on a heathen box. The adversary that can snoop all the packets also has the capacity to rootkit any box with ME or AMD equiv. It can only be "true free machine" if it's running on pre-2008 thinkpad +
a1ef62c3ab4caf77…ab4caf77…2023-02-21 22:43:45 <phf> so to finish on serious note, perhaps the horror of tiktok is the fact that it represents perfectly your average country man
d91d4d30ac31cb51…3e77367c…2023-09-27 15:07:06 <asciilifeform> i.e. the logical conclusion of pest is effectively a network where the enemy can't send packets (incl. 'magick' packets) at all.
d63ab4e2903df7a2…34e8624d…2022-10-31 21:26:15 asciilifeform recalls a 'reason wai there wasn't an emulator that dun crash is that thing was fulla timing-via-emptyloops' thrd
061cdb3684511fc8…84511fc8…2022-12-11 15:54:34 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-11#1018153 << vex get in here bitch.
55bb2b88a1ef62c3…a1ef62c3…2023-02-21 22:47:42 <phf> and if you're into conspiracy theories, then maybe chicom subtly tweaks algo so that over time whatever tiktok shows become more and more degenerate, for the purposes of demoralization
5e741e84d91d4d30…35742d64…2023-09-27 15:07:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-10-07 asciilifeform: PeterL: i won't presume to speak for trinque , but in asciilifeform's conception, the obv. Right Thing would be an item which rides atop ipv4 in the same sense that the latter once rode atop telco grid; and w/ cryptographic routing (i.e. yer address is a pubkey) and ciphration (i.e
fdbe790ed63ab4e2…d63ab4e2…2022-10-31 21:26:40 <asciilifeform> i.e. authors of emulator weren't in fact privy to details of the arch, because the latter possibly not even written down anywhere
f02c9780061cdb36…271c9263…2022-12-11 15:55:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-11 01:03:45 phf[awt]: hmm, vex never did setup his pest station to provide us with next level beats
17f95ed055bb2b88…11d26d9c…2023-02-21 23:49:27 asciilifeform actually no stranger to 'trash youtube', y'know, in style of '71 things the designer of the parabellum doesn't want you to know' etc. so not 'too snob', simply not gotten to tiktok etc just yet
3086bda75e741e84…d91d4d30…2023-09-27 15:09:17 <asciilifeform> naturally this requires irons, to interface to heathen net, which actually implement pest (and ~only it~, not anyffin else, not linux, not bsd ip stack, not porous intel/broadcom/etc nic, etc.)
cfa37844fdbe790e…903df7a2…2022-10-31 21:26:49 <phf> i just very patiently waited until the moment when possibly all that's left of bolix ip ended up in my lap, mostly by work of other, much more dedicated whisperers
99708913a91fe28b…94536890…2022-12-12 18:48:32 <billymg> https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-justice-dept-is-split-over-charging-binance-crypto-world-falters-sources-2022-12-12/
a7f2995817f95ed0…17f95ed0…2023-02-21 23:50:59 <asciilifeform> 'can a lahti 14mm go through 5 coke bottles and a pig', that kinda thing.
2320e6c43086bda7…3086bda7…2023-09-27 15:09:49 asciilifeform designed the protocol specifically to make this possible. but it requires, obv., hands, which atm in very short supply
18a49a17cfa37844…fdbe790e…2022-10-31 21:28:00 asciilifeform had comparatively modest objective of 'replicate macivory in fpga', notionally ~then~ at leisure archaeologize therein
8d647fb399708913…99708913…2022-12-12 18:49:07 <billymg> DOJ wants to charge the exchange that *didn't* recently crash and take customer funds with it
b68cff13a7f29958…a7f29958…2023-02-21 23:53:10 <asciilifeform> aand speaking of $genre -- apropos lolcat.
257254792320e6c4…2320e6c4…2023-09-27 15:14:19 <asciilifeform> 'p2p chat' is simply a demo application. actual design objective was, from the start, the above.
d65e853e18a49a17…18a49a17…2022-10-31 21:28:20 <asciilifeform> rather than 'archaeologize with $maxint card that might burn out any hour'
b094f8118d647fb3…8d647fb3…2022-12-12 18:50:05 billymg is not saying binance should be trusted or anything, just how absurd it is that the DOJ cares more about them than the one that already blew up
a3fff2b925725479…fd671230…2023-09-27 19:05:34 <signpost> "my interest here from the very beginning has been backyard orbital rocketry"
e7b5c397d65e853e…d65e853e…2022-10-31 21:28:37 <asciilifeform> (fwiw mine gives ecc eggogs occasionally, and it's 'brand new' comparatively)
34cc0805b094f811…a91fe28b…2022-12-12 18:45:03 <asciilifeform> billymg: goxes are built, under sufferance of the reich, to fatten up an' get popped when reich decides is time.
a1a3d40dbeb7ddae…8b52be67…2023-02-22 09:22:37 <cgra> anyone else here with an ip that changes often? could try peering with me and make us an address cast test case. come to think of it, could also just occasionally change your port on purpose
b23ae98aa3fff2b9…a3fff2b9…2023-09-27 19:07:31 <signpost> crtdaydreams: and no, you're incorrect that tmsr was a "just want to" fund sane computing. philosophy is upstream of any particular techne.
214f2731e7b5c397…e7b5c397…2022-10-31 21:28:56 <asciilifeform> 'archaeologize with emulator' found quite frustrating.
3e7111c434cc0805…34cc0805…2022-12-12 18:45:27 <asciilifeform> goxes are to the btc exch rate as ballast is to balloon.
b26e8d4cb23ae98a…b23ae98a…2023-09-27 19:11:07 <signpost> there is no sane anything built on insane priors, which include things well outside computing.
95ea64a3214f2731…214f2731…2022-10-31 21:30:01 asciilifeform was also moar interested in low-level detail than even the outward lisp end, e.g. how did the iron-assisted gc work, and the like
963950efb26e8d4c…b26e8d4c…2023-09-27 19:16:45 <signpost> moreover the challenge anyone who did not participate in tmsr has in describing tmsr is they're coming from a zero-sum world of low trust. it is hard to conceptualize how rapidly cultural development can occur in a high-trust environment.
58e0550f95ea64a3…cfa37844…2022-10-31 21:30:09 <phf> original emulator was written by bolix wizards, as per http://pt.withington.org/publications/VLM.pdf, but the opengenera2 leak relies on brad parker's (righteous) hack of making gnarly machine generated dec alpha code work on x86
5ac5a78f0c6559c9…b094f811…2022-12-12 18:52:24 <billymg> asciilifeform: binance under a different reich's jurisdiction, which is why i think they don't like it
a836a452f9d7c62e…b68cff13…2023-02-22 15:04:22 <asciilifeform> cgra: iirc phf has a portable station, and it knows how to eat addrcasts
7a352ebba836a452…b752a365…2023-02-22 15:29:36 <awt> cgra did you recently restart your station? If so I don't believe I received an initial prod from you.
4c7257b0a9aad435…a9aad435…2022-10-31 21:30:38 <asciilifeform> the emptyloops that worked on the dec, evidently, not so much on pc
9793fd01b1101c51…963950ef…2023-09-27 19:25:55 <signpost> say the root of the world is not god, or government, but man - not as an alternative to be chosen - but a fact you can either know or ignore.
170a18a64c7257b0…4c7257b0…2022-10-31 21:31:28 <asciilifeform> vlm/snap4 etc had strong 'wunderwaffe in last minute of fall of berlin' flavour to it
c90d43fdf51afcbf…5ac5a78f…2022-12-12 18:53:36 <billymg> asciilifeform: i count three (US, russia, china)
23eeecce9793fd01…f532ae12…2023-09-27 21:52:55 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031001 << If it was not clear, I was speaking directly to Stanislav regarding his own personal goals. Not that of tmsr.
87eccfcac90d43fd…f51afcbf…2022-12-12 18:49:08 <asciilifeform> ru & cn not claim global jurisdiction, unlike nato reich
be7fcc1b23eeecce…5e741e84…2023-09-27 21:52:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 15:07:33 signpost[asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams: and no, you're incorrect that tmsr was a "just want to" fund sane computing. philosophy is upstream of any particular techne.
1efe9ab617568756…58e0550f…2022-10-31 21:32:10 <phf> so i did spend some time attempting to get parker's code to work more reliably when i ported it to mac, but the issue i ran into was the same one he had: his interpretation of some of the instructions was not quite correct. the crashes would all come from the alpha ivory instruction handlers
0f1dad4987eccfca…87eccfca…2022-12-12 18:49:49 asciilifeform not aware of any cases where someone was extradited from reich to ru or cn, or where a ru or cn biz found itself unable to operate at home on acct of 'violate us payment laws' etc
6c54e577be7fcc1b…9793fd01…2023-09-27 21:56:34 <signpost> yes, I understood what you said. the idea that things such as these are separable from philosophy or even lowly politics is not obvious.
13ff71741efe9ab6…17568756…2022-10-31 21:33:32 <asciilifeform> is why opening up the actual ic would be a++ imho
e1f2f9810f1dad49…0f1dad49…2022-12-12 18:51:09 <asciilifeform> is what distinguishes a generic shithole from a reich, in asciilifeform's pov
23d0d0326c54e577…23eeecce…2023-09-27 23:19:22 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1030997 << all of this sits on the assumption that some kind of low-pass filter for shortwave uwb is even possible and won't get garbled by arbitrary noise
3518c50c13ff7174…13ff7174…2022-10-31 21:33:42 <asciilifeform> afaik was the only 100% working example of subj
e77d3df2e1f2f981…c90d43fd…2022-12-12 18:57:55 <billymg> asciilifeform: ok, then in that sense i agree. but i believe binance doesn't care about what US imagines its jurisdiction to be, because it's backed by the chicoms, so going to war with binance == going to war with Xi
206e1fd923d0d032…be7fcc1b…2023-09-27 23:19:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 11:09:18 asciilifeform: naturally this requires irons, to interface to heathen net, which actually implement pest (and ~only it~, not anyffin else, not linux, not bsd ip stack, not porous intel/broadcom/etc nic, etc.)
b643bb803518c50c…3518c50c…2022-10-31 21:34:30 <asciilifeform> (and yes maybe would fail if driven at 300mhz instead of 1, because emptyloops on realtime clock a la msdos or similar. but would be still mega-improvement on old emulator)
f755970ce77d3df2…e1f2f981…2022-12-12 18:54:06 <asciilifeform> xi vassal or not, if binance condemned by nato reich, prolly will go similarly to huawei -- nomoar reichbux wires to/from, executives dumb enuff to fly into / through reich ports kidnapped, etc
aa4a3016e77d3df2…e77d3df2…2022-12-12 18:59:57 <billymg> sorta like russia and its partners don't care in the slightest about whatever "price cap" usg sets on russian oil
a9650b12206e1fd9…23d0d032…2023-09-27 23:22:11 <crtdaydreams> it's like building a switchboard out of tin cans and string
e3ecc09eb643bb80…b643bb80…2022-10-31 21:35:23 <asciilifeform> 'ivory', if somehow netlistized, would handily sit down in a ecp5 etc
d85af107aa4a3016…f755970c…2022-12-12 18:55:14 <asciilifeform> rather, but with the diff that errybody eats petro, but otoh shitcoin-pumpers are to be found mostly in reich afaik
36319113a9650b12…6c54e577…2023-09-27 23:25:03 <signpost> what would you say the role of an erasure code is in the contemplated p2p radio net?
29e318bfe3ecc09e…109fc267…2022-10-31 21:36:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-28 13:56:27 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-28#1014566 << fwiw there are nao ice40-compat. ('ecp5', ~83k LUTs) w/ gb nic, for signpost's old idea re 'filter for validly signed incoming packets in dc'
afc0adecd85af107…d85af107…2022-12-12 18:55:55 asciilifeform not has 'dog in the race', is of the 'good gox is a dead gox' school of thought fwiw
bc7c219c36319113…a9650b12…2023-09-27 23:26:31 <crtdaydreams> are you talking about i.e. deadmans switch to wipe memory and flash over fpga?
847a8b2f29e318bf…1efe9ab6…2022-10-31 21:35:42 <phf> the instruction bits, in the best lisp machine tradition were generated using lisp, they are basically a bunch of defmacros
51f321b6afc0adec…aa4a3016…2022-12-12 19:05:13 <billymg> asciilifeform: likewise, only pointing out how obvious it is what the doj actually cares about: steal money from plebs (FTX) -- "a ok, great work"; let some plebs trade shitcoins without first providing blood sample and retinal scan (binance) -- "money laundering!"
4fcce8b3bc7c219c…36319113…2023-09-27 23:26:55 <signpost> no, a fountain code / erasure code / error-correcting code etc.
1c84ab50847a8b2f…e3ecc09e…2022-10-31 21:36:05 <asciilifeform> in that 1 and only public paper, they, yes, bragged about '100% lisp-generated tapeout mask' etc
36466f1651f321b6…afc0adec…2022-12-12 19:05:17 <asciilifeform> likely binance was in front of queue to chopping block for some time nao -- possib. it didn't have a conveyor of 'donation' dough to dnc
790636714fcce8b3…4fcce8b3…2023-09-27 23:27:56 <signpost> provided *any* signal makes it through, the algo can be adjusted to reassemble the original message given enough broadcast time.
f8b114f779063671…bc7c219c…2023-09-27 23:29:28 <crtdaydreams> it assumes a constant broadcasting line rate and that said adversary is not blasting rf noise at you
bf5f6d0061e72cb3…36466f16…2022-12-12 19:57:52 <asciilifeform> awt: possibly, but karpeles-style 'catch&release'
aa5f2309f8b114f7…f8b114f7…2023-09-27 23:30:12 <crtdaydreams> how do you propose that person A and person B are broadcasting and person C recieves both broadcasts at the same time
1dc7a8baddf0e873…ddf0e873…2022-10-31 21:36:22 <asciilifeform> and this in the end shat out the film for tapeout etc
e72dff33bf5f6d00…61e72cb3…2022-12-12 20:14:28 <awt> I don't know if ftx even qualifies as a gox. Doesn't fit into the waterfal model. They don't have any btc to crash the market with.
70d29830aa5f2309…79063671…2023-09-27 23:31:07 <signpost> you're starting in the middle of your thoughts, my guy, and not giving a clue how you got there.
d62224421dc7a8ba…1dc7a8ba…2022-10-31 21:36:33 <asciilifeform> part of what made the artifact interesting to asciilifeform
74ef8540e72dff33…e72dff33…2022-12-12 20:34:54 <awt> Unrelatedly I gotta say ChatGPT is proving to be an interesting competitor to google in terms of figuring out how to get lang A to do XYZ.
62beaf1c70d29830…70d29830…2023-09-27 23:31:24 <signpost> whole point of an error-correcting code is dealing with information loss.
5da4db3fd6222442…bacb2055…2022-10-31 21:38:05 <phf> but anyway, gary palter since then, using the original code, rewrote the relevant generator bits, to spit out x86 directly. this new and improved emulator only ever crashed once on me while i was mucking with the internals
d31b09e962beaf1c…62beaf1c…2023-09-27 23:31:36 <signpost> such as introduced by jamming, or star farts
d626713ed31b09e9…aa5f2309…2023-09-27 23:31:58 <crtdaydreams> there is a very small pool of viable noise/gate thresholds that account for noise and variation within uwb
43d220682fc7674d…d6222442…2022-10-31 21:38:55 <asciilifeform> dunsuppose he ever posted the orig code anywhere?
708360118f16f8ba…cf24cb14…2022-12-12 20:52:25 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-12 mats: dunno why binance keeps getting referred to as being inside chinese jurisdiction
ce8ab2aad626713e…d626713e…2023-09-27 23:33:36 <crtdaydreams> it seems to me that if you start trying to process multiple users broadcasts, unless there is some kind of phase shift aglo you can do to tell them apart (assuming constant line rate) it would get messy very quickly
6e8d199543d22068…2fc7674d…2022-10-31 21:40:38 <phf> no, it was supposed to be a commercial project, that for reasons plenty discussed in the logs never went anywhere
bb50b50570836011…8f16f8ba…2022-12-12 20:54:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018197 << near as can tell, all that's req'd to crash market is a reveal of 'we have n < m btc' where m is claimed qty. and n can be 0
4d3d1a61ce8ab2aa…ce8ab2aa…2023-09-27 23:34:29 <crtdaydreams> if there is no constant line rate, then you just have noise
8f7f393a6e8d1995…43d22068…2022-10-31 21:40:45 asciilifeform bought up enuff iron that, theoretically, could contract, like normal person, with a reversing lab, and get the job done. but lacks the meatwot to pick reliable folx, rather than sink 50k$ to charlatans, so so far sucking thumb
5dd92eadbb50b505…f02c9780…2022-12-12 20:55:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 15:15:48 awt: I don't know if ftx even qualifies as a gox. Doesn't fit into the waterfal model. They don't have any btc to crash the market with.
e3330eef4d3d1a61…4d3d1a61…2023-09-27 23:36:41 <crtdaydreams> correct me if I'm wrong in this understanding
257696418f7f393a…29e318bf…2022-10-31 21:41:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 15:57:19 phf[awt]: my meat wot's answer is "rust is but a manefestation of the divine will, cover up its shame, and drive that sucker until the frame separateth from the body"
769bef945dd92ead…51f321b6…2022-12-12 21:00:10 <billymg> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-12-12#1114316 << it's more like, who's the actual sovereign that an individual/company/country resolves to. if he's under canada then that resolves to usg
8c628edde3330eef…e3330eef…2023-09-27 23:38:23 <crtdaydreams> the only viable solution I can see would be different recievers for each peer
1689941525769641…42670854…2022-10-31 21:40:55 <signpost> https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1361855786603929601
1b45656e769bef94…70836011…2022-12-12 20:54:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-12 mats: i guess it works if you assume all people with chinamen names are chinese vassals
97a133e48c628edd…8c628edd…2023-09-27 23:39:56 <crtdaydreams> maybe with a certain tolerance, your error correcting code might be able to handle maybe 3 different peers broadcasting to you at different thresholds on the uwb shortwave spectrum on a single reciever
fb5fd9411b45656e…769bef94…2022-12-12 21:00:40 <billymg> from my perspective can only resolve to one of three (usg, russia, china)
12fe8b5a97a133e4…d31b09e9…2023-09-27 23:44:29 <signpost> out of my depth on that question, but at least I understand what you're getting at now.
44ee62f4fb5fd941…fb5fd941…2022-12-12 21:01:17 <billymg> awt: seems like a handy stack overflow replacement
9db8916312fe8b5a…97a133e4…2023-09-27 23:44:54 <crtdaydreams> your best bet might just be "person A can only broadcast between xx:xx - yy:yy and person B can only broadcast between yy:yy-xx:xx" it's possible that some kind of deterministic delay in broadcast that is calculated on each box and randomized could be implemented into the protocol, but that would get messy at the scale of
aa0e901d44ee62f4…bb50b505…2022-12-12 20:55:47 <asciilifeform> if mats correct -- neither the co nor its fuhrer in cn
fbcdbfc7ef329476…6e8d1995…2022-10-31 21:42:38 <phf> well, the end of that thread says, "is there any news around this? A free release of OG?" "Sorry but there’s nothing new to report. The owner of the Symbolics IP hasn’t responded to any inquiries in several months now."
fc8c43bdef329476…42ec4109…2022-10-31 21:42:38 <signpost> https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1547668072160378881
93dacb13aa0e901d…aa0e901d…2022-12-12 20:56:02 <asciilifeform> billymg: the text dun appear to be cribbed verbatim from overflow
194ffc228169e9a6…3f23abf3…2023-09-28 00:03:54 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030503 << comment wasn't re radio , but a later thrd re fpga implementation of correct pestron complete w/ nic
57a1ce0a93dacb13…44ee62f4…2022-12-12 21:01:52 <billymg> canada is not a sovereign, cz is not a sovereign (no army)
bc572af4194ffc22…ac31cb51…2023-09-28 00:05:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 19:21:06 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1030997 << all of this sits on the assumption that some kind of low-pass filter for shortwave uwb is even possible and won't get garbled by arbitrary noise
2e372164bc572af4…206e1fd9…2023-09-28 00:04:00 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 11:09:18 asciilifeform: naturally this requires irons, to interface to heathen net, which actually implement pest (and ~only it~, not anyffin else, not linux, not bsd ip stack, not porous intel/broadcom/etc nic, etc.)
d5cf00f37f84e22a…ef329476…2022-10-31 21:44:22 <asciilifeform> soo, d00d wrote emulator, then... went to zombie mallery for 'ask permission' to show it to anyone. lol
02d7668db0e266fd…b0e266fd…2022-12-12 20:56:46 asciilifeform tried the linked chatbot, but went away empty-handed, 'we're at capacity, come back laters'
6417f3bb2e372164…194ffc22…2023-09-28 00:04:20 <asciilifeform> ( radio thread not uninteresting but rather orthogonal )
bc60f94e02d7668d…57a1ce0a…2022-12-12 21:02:36 <billymg> asciilifeform: meant it could be used as an SO replacement as in, ask it question instead of SO
3cc18f816417f3bb…6417f3bb…2023-09-28 00:07:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030522 << fundamental misunderstanding of the concept, asciilifeform suspects. the notion of uwb is that 'when to watch for the pulse' is part of the key, and anyone w/out the latter simply sees noise indistinct from thermal background
c8e4b1859a25f3f9…9a25f3f9…2022-10-31 21:44:57 <asciilifeform> what can zombie say but 'grrr, brains'
a4d8c7023cc18f81…bc572af4…2023-09-28 00:09:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 19:46:38 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: your best bet might just be "person A can only broadcast between xx:xx - yy:yy and person B can only broadcast between yy:yy-xx:xx" it's possible that some kind of deterministic delay in broadcast that is calculated on each box and randomized could be implemented into
9eb35c07c8e4b185…7f84e22a…2022-10-31 21:45:07 <signpost> eh, I'm not going to blame anybody for not wanting to self-immolate in court for this.
1221caa8a4d8c702…3cc18f81…2023-09-28 00:08:27 <asciilifeform> ( not 'ufological' concept, incidentally, existing e.g. gps signal in fact is below noise floor , the receiver is able to hear on account of knowing atypically much re what it expects to hear )
03a7e33b52e19418…52e19418…2022-12-12 20:58:20 <asciilifeform> billymg: there are gnarly edge cases (e.g. possibly turkey)
68f69da722ce7579…c8e4b185…2022-10-31 21:45:42 asciilifeform was afaik 1st to bring up a public torrent of the orig genera src. and, somehow, not gassed.
92e69ca903a7e33b…03a7e33b…2022-12-12 20:59:07 <asciilifeform> for that matter, venezuela with its micro-army which nonetheless made short work of 'democracy-spreaders' coupla yrs ago
199dcd29350bacb3…2e372164…2023-09-28 00:09:19 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-06-17 asciilifeform: idea of pll is that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when to look'
9436bc6168f69da7…68f69da7…2022-10-31 21:46:11 <asciilifeform> iirc dks even left a snide comment on 'piratebay' -- 'thank you for downloading finest software envir ever devised...'
e7399528199dcd29…350bacb3…2023-09-28 00:14:12 <asciilifeform> all of this is rather 'bridge too far' atm tho. the basic iron pestron oughta consist simply of a box which sits on traditional heathen ethernet, but contains 0 von neumann lolcpu and no software (in the usual sense), in exactly same way as fg does not
e23fd96c9436bc61…9436bc61…2022-10-31 21:48:10 <asciilifeform> fwiw as soon as asciilifeform bought the 'ivory', posted its complete disk image on www. not even dks complained.
5273caa3d8f3c204…bc60f94e…2022-12-12 21:07:00 <billymg> perhaps cz has his own way of not getting "stopped at airport" but i always assumed it was because someone up the chain (xi? biden?) could pick up the phone on his behalf
b0afcd41e7399528…e7399528…2023-09-28 00:15:05 <asciilifeform> 2 colors of jack, 'red' (faces yer lan) and 1 or moar 'black' (faces heathen isp)
2bc3e1fd5273caa3…5273caa3…2022-12-12 21:08:00 <billymg> perhaps he has his own personal network of spies and hitmen, a la mp, and is 'tru sovereign'
ea5f5fbfb0afcd41…8169e9a6…2023-09-28 00:15:54 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031034 << I agree
86d9fe7193129526…93129526…2022-10-31 21:48:44 <asciilifeform> ^ also has 'full' src (well, the subset they give on the cd pack you get w/ the box)
948a808c2bc3e1fd…3ce3b923…2022-12-12 21:08:53 <phf> ah hmm, bitdash is not actually up to date with #a
7673a444ea5f5fbf…199dcd29…2023-09-28 00:15:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 20:04:20 asciilifeform: ( radio thread not uninteresting but rather orthogonal )
bfb051c286d9fe71…86d9fe71…2022-10-31 21:49:44 <asciilifeform> the folx who 'sit on bolix finds' aint afraid of lawsuits but of 'my source won't give me moar if he finds out i posted it', complicated web of this, iirc phf described
d1b3ef10948a808c…948a808c…2022-12-12 21:10:16 <phf> ftr, link replacement was added to btcbase on account of kako #b-a shenanigans, at some point clean cut made sense, consider that btcbase was superior in many ways to old #b-a
7168d3e67673a444…b0afcd41…2023-09-28 00:16:00 <asciilifeform> box behaves per spec, regardless of what comes in via the 'black' jacks (even if that's 220v or whatnot)
00009cb6bfb051c2…bfb051c2…2022-10-31 21:51:34 <asciilifeform> near as can tell, (at least some?) of these folx hope somehow to become officers of a hypothetically reconstituted bolix co.
beab5f73d1b3ef10…d1b3ef10…2022-12-12 21:10:42 <phf> but link replacement when you have multiple parallel logs running is kind of iffy
8dd4bff07168d3e6…7168d3e6…2023-09-28 00:17:58 <asciilifeform> the physical aspect of the i/o is secondary. (conceivably could consist of radio, or even analogue modem)
085d87d800009cb6…00009cb6…2022-10-31 21:53:01 <asciilifeform> ( starting with mallery, who 'i bought for $mil, but Worth Billions!' -- or alternatively, per asciilifeform's hypothesis, simply happy to sit on the whole thing for nsa & co. who not eager to see even toy example of cpu-and-os-sans-overflows rise from bottom of ocean )
01dbe909beab5f73…beab5f73…2022-12-12 21:12:43 <phf> which also reminds me, since this was never brought up, but btcbase.org is ownder my mp, and is going to expire on 2025-04
c87eb8c3085d87d8…22ce7579…2022-10-31 21:54:12 <signpost> dragon sits in the hoard because "here is gold" eh?
c9169fb401dbe909…01dbe909…2022-12-12 21:16:02 <phf> so will have to send it off at sea in less than two years
8976f9cd6f455c93…7673a444…2023-09-28 00:20:41 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-28 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: we're talking about a 'red/black' separator in iron, where 0 secrets travel in/outta 1 of the jacks, tho
15f81713c87eb8c3…085d87d8…2022-10-31 21:54:33 <asciilifeform> 'of course it's gold, see, i'm sitting on it, what else could it be'
aeb08de5c9169fb4…c9169fb4…2022-12-12 21:17:34 <phf> maybe hannah has access to that account, but i'm not sure if i should bother her with such a trifle
6bb001588976f9cd…ea5f5fbf…2023-09-28 00:34:13 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031003 << wasn't this the crux of phfs arguement?
eb65882e15f81713…fbcdbfc7…2022-10-31 21:54:46 <phf> it's hard for me to talk to palter's motivations, he could just be live by the sword, die by the sword type. he wrote the original code, his "new" emulator relies on both original emulator source and unreleased genera sources to work
8cc18527aeb08de5…aeb08de5…2022-12-12 21:19:09 <phf> and in something complete different, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-12-07#1114279 is there enough theoretical machinery in the protocol at this moment for there to be a self heal, when peers switch ips or otherwise go down
b1f27b846bb00158…8976f9cd…2023-09-28 00:34:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 15:16:46 signpost[asciilifeform]: moreover the challenge anyone who did not participate in tmsr has in describing tmsr is they're coming from a zero-sum world of low trust. it is hard to conceptualize how rapidly cultural development can occur in a high-trust environment.
b6f2246feb65882e…eb65882e…2022-10-31 21:55:39 <phf> his work was a paid contract, presumably with all the trappings. the "just leak it to public" is not even in the universe where this transaction transpired
0a8540a1eb65882e…15f81713…2022-10-31 21:55:39 <asciilifeform> if had to guess, would guess he used material from dks given on understanding that 'wouldnt be used for anyffin at all'
feeefd1c8cc18527…1b45656e…2022-12-12 21:19:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-12-07 unpx: I closed pest. I do not have time to look after it every time a peer link breaks.
1e74aa3db1f27b84…b1f27b84…2023-09-28 00:34:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 12:42:52 asciilifeform: signpost: he did have a point tho. ( per mp's original ex cathedra iirc this knot was supposed to be cut by 'i'm signing with my shit-i-havent-read-cuz-itd-take-over9000-years key' , but no one, mp incl., actually did this at any pt )
6c247672b6f2246f…c87eb8c3…2022-10-31 21:55:41 <signpost> asciilifeform: point being dragon can't spend gold, is afaik integral to the myth.
da0bdda0feeefd1c…8cc18527…2022-12-12 21:20:15 <phf> i just don't quite remember. i feel like there's some kind of mechanism to ensure that AT gets updated, when peer reconnects and announces itself
0c5ad29e74c97b3c…74c97b3c…2023-09-28 00:36:42 <crtdaydreams> the trust system didn't mean shit because you can't even trust the signature of "i've read & vetted this code"
a0d68b5662c81b81…62c81b81…2022-10-31 21:56:32 asciilifeform at one time offered to dks 'let's make fpga subst for macivory' but, unsurprisingly, he had no reason to trust 'farther than could throw' so no, not paid
d7d7185435722743…35722743…2022-12-12 21:20:58 <signpost> and ftr I still have an active peering with unpx so I don't know why he's being bitchy
5682b17f0c5ad29e…0c5ad29e…2023-09-28 00:38:05 <crtdaydreams> even now, what's the point of a trusted system if you're just gonna poison it with some shitcord portal
d3a28b50a0d68b56…a0d68b56…2022-10-31 21:57:14 <asciilifeform> iirc phf even had story where dks recounted 'didja know, 1 nut offered...'
e09f43a75682b17f…12fe8b5a…2023-09-28 00:38:58 <signpost> I would have a hard time imagining phf saying something as vague and grunty as "the trust system didn't mean shit"
aa9e9536d3a28b50…b6f2246f…2022-10-31 21:57:16 <phf> asciilifeform, dks being the last known face of symbolics, i suspect he gets lots of communication, and more often than not from crackpots :>
af68dd72211c1a67…2bc3e1fd…2022-12-12 21:28:03 <billymg> phf, yeah, it was working at one point when dulapbot and bitbot were perfectly in sync with #a. never quite worked with #pest but haven't yet implemented the exception. at this point should probably disable for #a logs as well, since i've been less diligent about restarting my logger over there
dc348d67e09f43a7…5682b17f…2023-09-28 00:40:10 <crtdaydreams> you're right. I'm just making a fool of myself, I'm grasping at straws.
a2e0b787af68dd72…211c1a67…2022-12-12 21:22:43 <signpost> iirc the last person with whom I added a peering had my updated IP from addrcast faster than he put in the AT command
8acab9d9dc348d67…e09f43a7…2023-09-28 00:40:04 <signpost> at any rate, you're bouncing between topics without much time spent on any of them. maybe pick one and stick to it for a while.
d033e0665e92221a…d3a28b50…2022-10-31 21:58:49 <asciilifeform> lulzily, even the incident where asciilifeform paid his ~entire wage for the biz yr did not upgrade from 'crackpot'
cc94ae5ba2e0b787…a2e0b787…2022-12-12 21:23:17 <signpost> not saying there isn't some bug, but theoretically the more peerings someone has the more likely they are to be resilient, I'd think.
b814a81c8acab9d9…dc348d67…2023-09-28 00:47:35 <crtdaydreams> I'm not interested in continuing a conversation on the topic of "why tmsr failed" there's enough of that in the logs, and for obvious reasons it's beyond my scope for never having participated in it to comment in depth.
bf9e9bbed033e066…72d31099…2022-10-31 21:58:49 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-07 asciilifeform: re dks , imho rather odd that feeding him for yr+ still dun getcha distinguished from 'autistic redditus'. but nfi.
564c0315cc94ae5b…da0bdda0…2022-12-12 21:24:20 <phf> ostensibly problem only arrises when "my pest station went down, i haven't check on it for a few days, meanwhile signpost switched his ip deliberately. there's no way for the two of us to find each other without and addrcast"
a4c4c45dcc94ae5b…cc94ae5b…2022-12-12 21:24:21 <signpost> re: hannah doesn't hurt to ask, but at some point we just start farting out "DNS" messages via our pest stations. dunno there's any reason to keep a domain aside nostalgia
9634a2c4b814a81c…b814a81c…2023-09-28 00:53:47 <crtdaydreams> With regards to pestnet being a continuation of this channel of tmsr thought, I see the merit, and I've failed to make any kind of substantiated point.
278e7044bf9e9bbe…d033e066…2022-10-31 21:59:15 asciilifeform got the d00d a decent, if short-lived usg contract
886affaf564c0315…a4c4c45d…2022-12-12 21:24:38 <signpost> yeah and we have no mutual friends situation
b4e3f35e278e7044…278e7044…2022-10-31 22:00:46 <asciilifeform> to dks's credit, he did sell to asciilifeform his (claimed -- last) stock of spare 'ivory' cpu. (likely knowing full well for what to be used)
c2f0a2ee886affaf…d8f3c204…2022-12-12 21:33:53 <asciilifeform> phf: addrcast & prod, but atm not fully worx ( partly b/c not erryone on latest ver. of blatta (nfi whether all worx in smalpest) ) partly on acct of symmetric NATs and 'hammer' not yet exists in blatta
f41b13ac3223bbcb…9634a2c4…2023-09-28 01:16:11 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031001 << I initially wrote this in reply in disagreement. It has dawned on me in the course of doing so that the trust-based model (of philosophy) supercedes anything else and is indeed integral to what sane computing is. <br> [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/20
da862ea3c2f0a2ee…c2f0a2ee…2022-12-12 21:34:26 <asciilifeform> phf: theoretically in a pestron 100% to new spec, won't need to manually massage AT after init. peering, oughta self-heal
abd14deff41b13ac…1e74aa3d…2023-09-28 01:16:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 15:07:33 signpost[asciilifeform]: crtdaydreams: and no, you're incorrect that tmsr was a "just want to" fund sane computing. philosophy is upstream of any particular techne.
69f45595f41b13ac…f41b13ac…2023-09-28 01:16:11 <crtdaydreams> 22-08-12#1113106][There are brains out there that want the same thing.]
52ed1d7eda862ea3…da862ea3…2022-12-12 21:34:47 <asciilifeform> (but -- remains to be seen how well 'hammer' worx in practice)
18fe8decabd14def…33c73ecc…2023-09-28 01:17:43 <crtdaydreams> I ask you now, is that trust-based model all that tmsr stood for?
33c73ecc69f45595…69f45595…2023-09-28 01:16:13 <crtdaydreams> [www.loper-os.org/?p=284][Sane computers.] I think this is an objectively achieveable goal that can be seperable from even a marked difference in ideology.
6bfdf6715b9512c3…5b9512c3…2022-10-31 22:01:28 <asciilifeform> maybe was b/c 'cessna' needed new engine just then. nfi
e82b152452ed1d7e…52ed1d7e…2022-12-12 21:35:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018225 << apropos.
a2318dcd18fe8dec…18fe8dec…2023-09-28 01:20:38 <crtdaydreams> is it just by happenstance that tmsr came into existence through utilizing the system of monetization, or that it is ideologically and philosophically seperable from this
29f12dc16bfdf671…6bfdf671…2022-10-31 22:02:59 <asciilifeform> ( or because knew that gettin anyffin useful from these is over9000x easier said than done. )
4fe9e0d2e82b1524…5dd92ead…2022-12-12 21:36:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:17:12 phf[awt]: so will have to send it off at sea in less than two years
ae7f811ea2318dcd…a2318dcd…2023-09-28 01:21:48 <crtdaydreams> The nature of this question is whether or not tmsr was ever a necessary step or even relevant to achieving sane computing
f6c04a6229f12dc1…aa9e9536…2022-10-31 22:04:40 <phf> dks is a skilled salesman, and to a great extent he's milking rock here
e62999f94fe9e0d2…4fe9e0d2…2022-12-12 21:36:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-29 10:05:40 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: in other oddities: namecheap 'oopsed' 'therealbitcoin.org' dns : jurov had transferred it to asciilifeform's acct in '21 ( along with 'thebitcoin.foundation', which still worx ) but recently 'untransfered' (??!) and nao again seems to point to jurov's long
859026caae7f811e…ae7f811e…2023-09-28 01:23:35 <crtdaydreams> if the wot model can exist independently then why can it not be seperated from the dead tsar?
e7dd61d8e62999f9…e82b1524…2022-12-12 21:36:25 <asciilifeform> ideally at some pt we'll have this and can 'send off at sea' most of the dns crud.
0a81a00d859026ca…859026ca…2023-09-28 01:30:13 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031063 << I would even go so far as to say that in this case, if you were to strip away the overarching ideals and implementation, the fundamental libertine notions are not so different
651c4cb375c0d93e…75c0d93e…2022-10-31 22:05:24 <asciilifeform> 1 time he managed to sell to asciilifeform ~outer shell~ of tape drive, 'maybe you find some tapes, and all you need is that-there standard drive from '80s'
a26931c25cfbc4ea…a0ff45ac…2022-12-12 21:39:06 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018223 << the wwwtronic logs, asciilifeform expects, will go away once a standard pestron knows how to serve up its log on 8080 or watnot; and knows how to 'reply to msg' using netchain
f0b7f73ce7dd61d8…feeefd1c…2022-12-12 21:36:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-01 asciilifeform: what's needed is http over pest, where can fetch e.g. http://localhost:1337/asciilifeform/loper-os.org and it'll work for so long as asciilifeform is in yer l_n (for some n)
d5b7a9d70a81a00d…abd14def…2023-09-28 01:30:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:17:32 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: [www.loper-os.org/?p=284][Sane computers.] I think this is an objectively achieveable goal that can be seperable from even a marked difference in ideology.
78ae2b9da26931c2…e62999f9…2022-12-12 21:40:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:12:02 phf[awt]: but link replacement when you have multiple parallel logs running is kind of iffy
17bc8887f0b7f73c…df7088b7…2022-12-12 21:37:05 <phf> hmm, i need to add multipeering. i've been losing packets from time to time, and then i get stuck in buffer.
a0ff45acf0b7f73c…e7dd61d8…2022-12-12 21:37:09 asciilifeform for 1 is pretty tired of paying the dns racketeers.
74d537a7d5b7a9d7…3223bbcb…2023-09-28 01:32:04 <signpost> where are you going to fab your sane computer?
c759236778ae2b9d…a26931c2…2022-12-12 21:40:09 <asciilifeform> the irc emulation thing was a 'training wheels' thing, imho, ought not to stay around
0e4f0eca17bc8887…bc9a29fa…2022-12-12 21:41:31 <asciilifeform> and iirc phf had sumthing in the way of a prototype www gate
bbdbf6ed74d537a7…0a81a00d…2023-09-28 01:35:03 <crtdaydreams> How do you expect to sell open source software?
f7829e03c7592367…17bc8887…2022-12-12 21:40:46 <phf> i suspect logs will stay around. stations go down, bugs surface, vex and mats reading www only, etc.
ebe230bb0e4f0eca…0e4f0eca…2022-12-12 21:41:51 <asciilifeform> pestron-powered log will properly refill self if goes up/down etc
2d43146abbdbf6ed…74d537a7…2023-09-28 01:35:33 <signpost> broski, if you tried answering my questions you'd find they're not jabs in a sparring session, but prompts to think.
85aeabc3bf7f10f4…f6c04a62…2022-10-31 22:07:27 <phf> if he had a full ip ownership, he'd sell opengenera as a subscription service, probably with same source arrangement as what you get on CD. all kinds of surface/application layer stuff, but of course no compiler or gc or dynamic windows or anything like that
153f4376f7829e03…c7592367…2022-12-12 21:41:05 <asciilifeform> they can read a pestron-generated log neh
c769e616ebe230bb…ebe230bb…2022-12-12 21:42:04 <asciilifeform> (unlike the current legacy abominations)
0e2e87bd2d43146a…bbdbf6ed…2023-09-28 01:36:12 <crtdaydreams> If by the nature of sane computing the entire software and hardware stack must be avaliable to be known by the operator, why should anyone bother with a platform like this?
3efb2f8885aeabc3…bf7f10f4…2022-10-31 22:08:14 <asciilifeform> aaha, sorta like how one can still 'buy' e.g. openvms, from what remained of compaq
bc9a29fa153f4376…153f4376…2022-12-12 21:41:21 asciilifeform will stand one up in place of dulapbot station once such thing avail.
4047c6e5c769e616…f7829e03…2022-12-12 21:42:57 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018251 << that's presently unspecced, right? also how does it distinguish between "parent" and "reply"?
b297c9210e2e87bd…2d43146a…2023-09-28 01:35:59 <signpost> as you walk the dependency chain outward from your computer you're going to find it's an empire-scale project
1f88b7e93efb2f88…3efb2f88…2022-10-31 22:08:58 <asciilifeform> 'here's half of the thing, and btw you agree not to actually ~do~ anyffin with it'
367d9c574047c6e5…78ae2b9d…2022-12-12 21:44:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:40:18 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018223 << the wwwtronic logs, asciilifeform expects, will go away once a standard pestron knows how to serve up its log on 8080 or watnot; and knows how to 'reply to msg' using netchain
c7e4a1c3b297c921…0e2e87bd…2023-09-28 01:36:37 <crtdaydreams> I know that fab isn't a walk in the park
15ca3a391f88b7e9…1f88b7e9…2022-10-31 22:10:12 asciilifeform 1st time bought a lispm from dks, did so largely to get the cds. and bummer, was ~same as the warez one, lol
13ccb228367d9c57…b29a65c6…2022-12-12 21:43:47 <asciilifeform> ( how to distinguish -- and whether -- is currently open q )
e1a937d4c7e4a1c3…c7e4a1c3…2023-09-28 01:38:29 <crtdaydreams> I think fab can be seperated from the step of design
a277bee615ca3a39…15ca3a39…2022-10-31 22:11:22 asciilifeform recalls trading it to phf for sample of 'ivory', and the latter iirc also traded it for sumthing somewhere
1dbc712113ccb228…814b303b…2022-12-12 21:44:55 <phf> i was thinking of standing up a111 just so that i can do something like ``13CCB22822884 << hello, world`` and a111 quoting whatever's in 13cc..
20d69357e1a937d4…e1a937d4…2023-09-28 01:38:55 <crtdaydreams> There is no point in a fab without anything *to* fab
69b2a965c06287c0…1dbc7121…2022-12-12 21:47:13 <phf> right now all these inline log…/pest/date#<random number> are basically information loss. once corresponding loggers go down no easy way to recover that info
2376468a20d69357…20d69357…2023-09-28 01:44:24 <crtdaydreams> a "sane cpu" could be the gateware and bootstrap code vetted by multiple trusted parties
8be19138967ad40e…967ad40e…2022-10-31 22:11:52 <asciilifeform> perhaps gone around earth n times, traded.
a4bf29f069b2a965…69b2a965…2022-12-12 21:48:49 <phf> actually i'm wrong. can probably do fuzzy match against the *bot responses
30870ad38be19138…8be19138…2022-10-31 22:12:38 <asciilifeform> thing was ~100kg, with both parts summed..
4e4e6f49a4bf29f0…bd939f10…2022-12-12 22:33:29 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-12#1018248 << same here
0e5ffc189a89fc82…9a89fc82…2023-09-28 01:45:12 <signpost> a reason tmsr keeps getting brought back up is mind-worms such as "towards purpose" were dealt with.
fc30a2e830870ad3…30870ad3…2022-10-31 22:13:06 asciilifeform recalls having to take it apart & reseat things merely after moving from 1 desk to anuther
827e6bbf4e4e6f49…367d9c57…2022-12-12 22:34:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 16:38:16 asciilifeform[4]: for 1 is pretty tired of paying the dns racketeers.
684d898b0e5ffc18…0e5ffc18…2023-09-28 01:46:12 <signpost> the place to start this conversation is where one's ass sits. what would "sane computer" mean in your present context? what'd it enable that you currently can't do?
9f04718afc30a2e8…85aeabc3…2022-10-31 22:13:17 <phf> originally the reason why i wanted to get my hands on opengenera source is because i wanted to use it in quant contexts, kind of like how k/kdb is one type of specialized solution, a lispmachine in a vm could've been another. but for that usecase the system should obv be unencumbered, because last thing an investment fund
e12f6952827e6bbf…827e6bbf…2022-12-12 22:34:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 11:58:41 bitbot: (asciilifeform) 2022-11-15 lobbes: Along the lines of letting my tools rust, I let krankendenken.com expire and some chinese squatter has gobbled it up. My blog still lives, however, at my old domain name (this one I renewed until 2027): http://www.lobbesblog.com/
cceef7ad684d898b…2376468a…2023-09-28 01:50:54 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031079 << I'm doubtful tsmc would exist at the scale it does without being "needed" the entire capital business model for semiconductor fab (foundries at least) is built on the constant demand of chips
e21d8cf99f04718a…9f04718a…2022-10-31 22:13:17 <phf> wants to do is to use warez (though i suppose they won't be opposed to it, as long as the outcome outweighs downsides, etc.)
3aeee148cceef7ad…d5b7a9d7…2023-09-28 01:50:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:44:15 signpost[asciilifeform]: need of a fab does not make one be.
30f5956be21d8cf9…b8f5e956…2022-10-31 22:18:32 asciilifeform conceived of whole affair as, 1st of all, investigation into 'wat to salvage'. there were obv. things to salvage (e.g. they had reliable iron gc; ui where 'click on $object and see src of it' etc)
8895e779b7a33856…af68dd72…2022-12-13 14:59:47 <billymg> morning awt, looks like you called it https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/sec-files-separate-charges-against-ftx-ceo-sbf-years-long-fraud
22c47b493aeee148…684d898b…2023-09-28 01:53:18 <signpost> there is nothing at all incompatible with those two statements.
2f4340111d2aef13…1d2aef13…2022-10-31 22:13:58 <asciilifeform> once you want >1 man operating the thing, they start to care whether warez
afb9f0ac30f5956b…5ed92790…2022-10-31 22:18:47 <phf> ftr some of the code i benchmarked out of curiousity when porting things around is about 7x slower than unoptimized sbcl
f892b2758895e779…e12f6952…2022-12-13 14:55:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-12 14:54:40 awt: I suspect Bankman will also be prosecuted.
5e0b393e22c47b49…22c47b49…2023-09-28 01:53:43 <signpost> either put in the effort to understand the person talking with you, or pull your dick on the other tab for all I care.
da89a6fb2f434011…e21d8cf9…2022-10-31 22:14:02 <phf> THEN once i realized that ip is utter mess, i figured can be used to for tmsr, where "fuck you you can't use it" is an acceptable license. "we plundered this here system from the enemy"
595724d4afb9f0ac…30f5956b…2022-10-31 22:19:02 <asciilifeform> ( but not 100% obv that the simplest way to get these is to salvage from bolix, rather than remake from 1st principles )
e6a0e582f892b275…b7a33856…2022-12-13 15:00:37 <awt> billymg: had heard some things in a twitter space. Of course now various accounts are saying it was "all part of the plan" to prevent him from testifying in congress.
28c0dd555e0b393e…cceef7ad…2023-09-28 02:04:43 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031081 << every structure ought to be mutable from the level of hardware. think of a metacircular fpga. you should be allowed to write (in realtime-cpu cycles) a cpu module for e.g. hardware-accelerated serpent and be able to integrate that into any level of execution during
584828acda89a6fb…da89a6fb…2022-10-31 22:14:47 <phf> but then lisp fell out of favor, and everyone switched to ada :)
f6d2eeb5595724d4…595724d4…2022-10-31 22:19:35 <asciilifeform> phf: slower b/c emulates ancient heap of '80s irons ? or from ~algo~ pov ?
eff1a148e6a0e582…8895e779…2022-12-13 15:11:35 <billymg> i don't know how 'planned' it all was, but i also don't believe gensler is suddenly on the side of the people in this
83b38a8728c0dd55…3aeee148…2023-09-28 02:04:32 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:46:16 signpost[asciilifeform]: the place to start this conversation is where one's ass sits. what would "sane computer" mean in your present context? what'd it enable that you currently can't do?
ec91cd4f28c0dd55…28c0dd55…2023-09-28 02:04:43 <crtdaydreams> runtime. if you are to do this, the requisite is that you must be able to
0b1e7de0584828ac…2f434011…2022-10-31 22:15:13 asciilifeform was interested in it from pov of 'make actually engineered, rather than fungal 74xxx late night undergrads fidgeting, clone'
e2c84c51f6d2eeb5…afb9f0ac…2022-10-31 22:21:32 <phf> asciilifeform, i suspect it's a combination. a mainloop on an ivory is conceptually close to an evaluator on cmucl: where ivory instructions are "VOPs"
fc13db93eff1a148…e6a0e582…2022-12-13 15:09:05 <awt> billymg: yes his "pro btc" image is a bit too carefully curated and his own words on the subject are quite circumspect.
b3398b6883b38a87…017978d4…2023-09-28 02:11:11 <crtdaydreams> at this level of transparency all the issues involved with system security and trust should be a natural addition
017978d4ec91cd4f…ec91cd4f…2023-09-28 02:04:45 <crtdaydreams> access, read and write all of systems code and firmware. you should be able to edit the design of the very architecture the system is currently executing on during runtime. and do so in a failsafe manner.
291f2d25e2c84c51…e2c84c51…2022-10-31 22:22:28 <phf> i can't pull from the top of my head how fast cmucl's evaluator is compared to its compiler, but that should be the baseline
3ef4071afc13db93…a4bf29f0…2022-12-13 16:21:00 <phf> doesn't need to be "part of the plan", could simple be the case of "barbara, yes, it's me, yes, it's bad, it's real bad … i know you've been following the news, we can't sweep this one under the rag, sam really messed up … look nobody's talking prison time but sec is up my ass g%F>щ~0EN+(
fa699c0eb3398b68…b3398b68…2023-09-28 02:26:09 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031085 << the thing is, I couldn't give a fuck *how* the cpu is made. god, go hand solder a ton of transistors if ya want. i'm saying it's beyond the scope of the problem. you wanna go figure out world domination so you can have your mass fab? go for it, good luck.
b8f5e956266b46e6…266b46e6…2022-10-31 22:16:50 <asciilifeform> 'grandfather's axe', 'replace handle, replace blade', 1st lose the '80s soup of hardware hacks, then -- the global-variables-and-beer fungal software stack, what'd remain would, in theory, be 'sane comp', was the thought.
81c5cabd291f2d25…291f2d25…2022-10-31 22:22:54 <phf> can't really go past that since you're working with a virtual machine
5964a6a33ef4071a…3ef4071a…2022-12-13 16:21:00 <phf> too, they are looking into the whole thing" etc g%F>щ~0EN+(
00b75372fa699c0e…83b38a87…2023-09-28 02:26:00 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:53:45 signpost[asciilifeform]: either put in the effort to understand the person talking with you, or pull your dick on the other tab for all I care.
2741f282b8f5e956…584828ac…2022-10-31 22:16:54 <phf> so at this point i can't really care that palter or malory or the lizards are keeping the thing under wraps. i get to play with the thing when i have nothing better to do, and it's kind of mediocre :> if the ip and the everything around it wasn't so utterly fucked in the late 80s early 90s, possibly oculd've become "the wa
3cca50a381c5cabd…f6d2eeb5…2022-10-31 22:23:35 <asciilifeform> sorta wai asciilifeform was over9000x moar interested in reviving the iron per se in modern (fpga) variant, than in emulator. i.e. the appeal from asciilifeform's pov is concretely to ~lose x86~ and its pile of undoc'd gpus etc driven mandatorily w/ c liquishit, the bookcase fulla pile of realmode->protmode->longmode hacko
16a6be045964a6a3…fc13db93…2022-12-13 16:47:57 <awt> Certainly a lot of cya going on. I like the theory that sdny wants to get him to turn on others - whomever they may be.
0939797e00b75372…fa699c0e…2023-09-28 02:27:30 <crtdaydreams> the basic architecture for what I propose is really not much different from an fpga anyway
5ed927902741f282…2741f282…2022-10-31 22:16:54 <phf> y things are", but as it stands i'm not even sure, what, if anything, can be salvaged
2cd179eb3cca50a3…3cca50a3…2022-10-31 22:24:08 <asciilifeform> * ... realmode->protmode->longmode hackolade, the shelf fulla bus specs, all that liquishit.
c1ce210f16a6be04…c06287c0…2022-12-13 17:47:55 asciilifeform suspects the forum fauna who 'they're taking him to the epstein gallows' -- prolly correct
23c1b3070939797e…5e0b393e…2023-09-28 02:52:05 <signpost> I jumped into this thread to correct the thinking that emitted this.
eeac88292cd179eb…2cd179eb…2022-10-31 22:24:39 <asciilifeform> instead 'here is a comp, described in these 150pg, that actually maeks sense and here's a graphical lisp' etc
f4a3b5c623c1b307…a4d8c702…2023-09-28 02:54:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 01:13:50 crtdaydreams[signpost]: anything else. I see the utility of pest, but it's still rather futile on a heathen box. The adversary that can snoop all the packets also has the capacity to rootkit any box with ME or AMD equiv. It can only be "true free machine" if it's running on pre-2008 thinkpad +
d844e671eeac8829…eeac8829…2022-10-31 22:24:56 <asciilifeform> not took long to realize that it aint aboutta be '150pg' if from bolix.
a769f57d738c848d…c1ce210f…2022-12-13 18:23:34 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho not even obv. phakt that 'got off leash', possibly simply comes a time to feed weak sled dog to the others
c826fd6cf4a3b5c6…23c1b307…2023-09-28 02:55:57 <signpost> anyone who builds a fits-in-head computer in the future will have done so by chaining the things which he could achieve correctly.
f28a01b1d844e671…81c5cabd…2022-10-31 22:25:02 <phf> asciilifeform, smbx garbage collector is btw in software
94f8baf2a769f57d…a769f57d…2022-12-13 18:25:59 <asciilifeform> near as can tell w/ naked eye, sbf wasn't 'brightest bulb at home despot', genuinely thought that his spontaneous uplifting was a permanent thing, 'too big to fail'(tm)
0463b2dec826fd6c…c826fd6c…2023-09-28 02:56:06 <signpost> that's been the only point on my end this whole thread.
8559bd5cf28a01b1…d844e671…2022-10-31 22:25:27 <asciilifeform> phf: aha, but w/ support from tagged ram etc neh
e31e03fc94f8baf2…f0b7f73c…2022-12-13 18:25:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-10 asciilifeform: lizards -- connected directly to printer,brrr; sublizards -- can run outta dough, but pick up phone, get moar (for so long as playing ball)
e8793b4a94f8baf2…94f8baf2…2022-12-13 18:28:19 <asciilifeform> ( in ru, this kinda event is referred to as a 'sliv' -- 'flushing', as in turd. at one time happened semi-regularly. )
348f9f5b0463b2de…0463b2de…2023-09-28 03:00:10 <signpost> only way I've speculated one could do so is by first being wildly successful at something else. consider that the tech giants all *have* custom hardware they do trust much more than the off the shelf shit.
a06f9904e8793b4a…738c848d…2022-12-13 18:30:59 <signpost> who knows, but the guy had WEF, Clinton, et al, blessing, so I imagine they wanted more of a buterin out of him.
e6080c29348f9f5b…348f9f5b…2023-09-28 03:01:37 <signpost> the reasons something befitting "sane computer" isn't sold is political. recall when Apple briefly tried resisting USG on unlocking some iPhone?
d7e0dd1a343b93b5…343b93b5…2022-10-31 22:25:58 <phf> yeah, i think tagged memory is the main win of the whole thing, from hardware level perspective
658c6aa5a06f9904…a06f9904…2022-12-13 18:32:45 <signpost> "gave girlfriend-ceo of my company B the money from my company A" says to me that too much stimulant went up his nose, started coloring outside the lines.
6875c532658c6aa5…658c6aa5…2022-12-13 18:33:38 <signpost> at any rate, may tether explode next, and then ethereum, inshallah
d8bb17ac84e7dfbc…0939797e…2023-09-28 03:14:52 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1031099 << I understand this. What if you were to distribute the source and documentation widely on the net? There's not much the USG can do about it.
67be7914fcf7a738…fcf7a738…2022-10-31 22:26:33 <asciilifeform> and the 1 thing that can't get 'on x64 with clever hand-sewn kernel in asm'
6338df8f6875c532…e8793b4a…2022-12-13 18:35:01 <asciilifeform> binance starting to look like possible 'next', supposedly mass withdrawals nao
04326e59d8bb17ac…00b75372…2023-09-28 03:14:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:01:39 signpost[asciilifeform]: the reasons something befitting "sane computer" isn't sold is political. recall when Apple briefly tried resisting USG on unlocking some iPhone?
f9e792da04326e59…d8bb17ac…2023-09-28 03:15:11 <crtdaydreams> I understand your point re: hardware though.
4c06ae36cc36eb2f…d7e0dd1a…2022-10-31 22:27:00 <phf> you can do things like allocate pined, continous, etc. regions of unsigned-byte's, but you will never be confused as to what it is
a1d1b1c26edb9e0c…6edb9e0c…2022-12-13 18:35:35 <signpost> such a proliferation of scammers this round.
d017ad5cf9e792da…f9e792da…2023-09-28 03:15:36 <crtdaydreams> feds would be rather quick to shut down any home fab
f6d5ca92a1d1b1c2…6338df8f…2022-12-13 18:36:35 <asciilifeform> would have moar interesting consequences if gox users had tendency to flee to somewhere other than $newergox
12653da9d017ad5c…d017ad5c…2023-09-28 03:16:18 <crtdaydreams> At the very least the information could propagate across generations
8816551412653da9…84e7dfbc…2023-09-28 03:18:05 <signpost> "have you considered killing the thing that fucked up the other computers"
e6e11916b9e813e8…4c06ae36…2022-10-31 22:28:38 <phf> i can probably spend this life studying what's there, and then next life implementing a replacement ;)
10e0de5a88165514…88165514…2023-09-28 03:18:33 <signpost> not saying you can. I'm saying the fact of it doesn't change because you want something.
d10e1ddee6e11916…b9e813e8…2022-10-31 22:29:31 <asciilifeform> at this rate, race not b/w turtle and achilles, but 2 turtles, possib. even asciilifeform gets microscopist and working fpga netlist before the emulator folx gather the summed balls to post working emulator, lol
259b58f010e0de5a…10e0de5a…2023-09-28 03:18:57 <signpost> and barring that, you will have to build something in *their* world.
465f0c1dd10e1dde…d10e1dde…2022-10-31 22:30:09 <asciilifeform> the dough, perversely, not the obstacle, obstacle instead 'where to spend'
67059131259b58f0…259b58f0…2023-09-28 03:19:23 <signpost> you're not building another TSMC because fuck you, the empire has one and you aren't it. etc
57e1bd26465f0c1d…465f0c1d…2022-10-31 22:30:39 <asciilifeform> ( talked to umd folx, they have the SEM but not, insisted, the particle beam setup to strip layers correctly )
dd47e62c57e1bd26…57e1bd26…2022-10-31 22:31:07 <asciilifeform> 'come use the SEM, 100$/h, if 150 comes with slave' or approx
168f12c300d7bece…00d7bece…2023-09-28 03:22:41 <crtdaydreams> what you're saying essentially implies that all efforts are purely sisyphean
e10359d7168f12c3…b287d59d…2023-09-28 03:25:34 <signpost> I'm usually pretty explicit in what I'm saying, and futilty didn't come up.
4953b26667605c9f…4b14af11…2022-10-31 22:31:58 <asciilifeform> ( it aint as if photo == netlist, naturally, that -- by hand, sit for yr+... )
e38b08c54953b266…4953b266…2022-10-31 22:32:13 <asciilifeform> there's various softs to help, but all 'semi auto'
95758121cd3e6d39…e10359d7…2023-09-28 03:37:10 <signpost> bitcoin itself is an example of success in this, to the degree that vampire banks are lining up to launch spot ETFs now.
775c800de38b08c5…e38b08c5…2022-10-31 22:33:51 <asciilifeform> all of this over9000x easier, yes, for '80s 1.8uM ic , than for current-day. but still not 'easy like spitting'
ea57402b775c800d…775c800d…2022-10-31 22:34:07 <asciilifeform> thing is approx on par w/ i486 re density/count.
65780c9d91c0e2ac…91c0e2ac…2023-09-28 03:38:39 <signpost> you either win against the empire with a huge technical leap that saturates the world faster than they can react, or by killing it.
716c2737ea57402b…ea57402b…2022-10-31 22:34:34 <asciilifeform> afaik densest ic 'publicly' reversed to date was c64's 6502.
476b7ee665780c9d…cd3e6d39…2023-09-28 03:41:30 <crtdaydreams> the possibility of it self-destructing isn't listed, why's that?
57bbf59c716c2737…67605c9f…2022-10-31 22:35:11 <phf> yeah, but the end result is that you now have an emulator of a bolix lisp machine, which you're going to do what with? study and run genera? doesn't get you any closer to hypothetical "going full chuck moore"
86748cfc476b7ee6…65780c9d…2023-09-28 03:41:53 <signpost> well, you wanted something. better not wait around for that, might still be falling when we're old men.
330835e357bbf59c…57bbf59c…2022-10-31 22:36:26 <phf> it's probably possible to describe ivory in very precise high level terms from what's available as is, where reversing will not give you any more insight into its nature
7e924b1486748cfc…86748cfc…2023-09-28 03:43:07 <signpost> also if it self-destructs that just means you've got to bring the empire of resources to the table for your computer, rather than con them out of theirs.
decc084f330835e3…716c2737…2022-10-31 22:36:33 <asciilifeform> well, warez genera attached to e.g. gb/s nic, tb of dram, etc. may be moar interesting / appealing item, from certain pov
68330a547e924b14…476b7ee6…2023-09-28 03:46:06 <crtdaydreams> you and I both know I haven't got the brains for that
ad595f58decc084f…25769641…2022-10-31 22:37:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 18:14:20 phf[awt]: originally the reason why i wanted to get my hands on opengenera source is because i wanted to use it in quant contexts, kind of like how k/kdb is one type of specialized solution, a lispmachine in a vm could've been another. but for that usecase the system should obv be unencumbered
13bb0fb468330a54…7e924b14…2023-09-28 03:46:42 <signpost> best one's got is incremental steps to tame the shitware we've got, then.
8a9866c2ad595f58…decc084f…2022-10-31 22:37:21 <asciilifeform> 'quantity has a quality of its own'(tm)
85bba51713bb0fb4…13bb0fb4…2023-09-28 03:47:54 <signpost> would be nice to at least control with whom the turd can speak. that would rule out certain failure modes, if not all.
d7755cd68a9866c2…330835e3…2022-10-31 22:37:46 <phf> gb/s nic that you're using 82 version of "ip/tcp" stack written in macsyma/symbolics common lisp hybrid to sling packets over, gtfo :>
60bae91785bba517…68330a54…2023-09-28 03:50:09 <crtdaydreams> Thanks, ya really had to spell it out for me, didn't ya.
b0b47df8d7755cd6…8a9866c2…2022-10-31 22:37:50 <asciilifeform> as things are, nobody's aboutta host industrial realtime proggies on emulated genera.
a16354c160bae917…85bba517…2023-09-28 03:50:15 <signpost> would be even nicer if there were steps after this, maybe decompose the monolithic compute turd into pieces, pick away at them.
8740b247b0b47df8…b0b47df8…2022-10-31 22:38:20 <asciilifeform> phf: wainot the '82 stack. esp. if properly airtightened by modern hands
92ce36d8a16354c1…a16354c1…2023-09-28 03:50:25 <signpost> eh people underappreciate conversation anymore
30f470b08740b247…8740b247…2022-10-31 22:38:30 <asciilifeform> prolly moar doable than fixing any of the published c crapolade
457f5f3830f470b0…30f470b0…2022-10-31 22:38:50 <asciilifeform> if only because mass was forcibly over9000x smaller.
2efa551f3aa3729e…3aa3729e…2023-09-28 03:51:29 <signpost> practically, I'm dedicating a lot of meatspace time to projects meant to convert USD to corn, so I'm not pushing this along as much as I'd like right now.
b4fc6604457f5f38…457f5f38…2022-10-31 22:41:03 <asciilifeform> part of appeal, imho, of genera (concretely -- on dedicated iron) is that demonstrates that what it did ( particularly, 'large scale systems programming w/out c' ) was ~possible~
07c15c388d9bec05…8d9bec05…2023-09-28 03:55:33 <crtdaydreams> I really have nothing useful to contribute to this conversation, probably no near future ones either
6835076007c15c38…07c15c38…2023-09-28 03:56:26 <crtdaydreams> signpost: thanks for your time and patience, have a good day
5fc9f3fe03ba88ba…03ba88ba…2022-10-31 22:43:16 <asciilifeform> but, phf did not say 'was gonna quant on oberon', fwiw
9a8e756968350760…2efa551f…2023-09-28 04:00:09 <signpost> nah I'm writing another giant pile of java shitware, because eh, it worked last time.
7843b9af9a8e7569…6f455c93…2023-09-28 15:38:17 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030567 << depending on wat precisely counts as 'a computer', and precisely what the threshold for 'exist' is (how many do you need? is success condition consisting of them being available in walmart for 100$ ?) -- conceivably '2-3 competent folx who don't need day jobs' scale.
d059991f7843b9af…f4a3b5c6…2023-09-28 15:40:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:38:04 signpost[billymg]: as you walk the dependency chain outward from your computer you're going to find it's an empire-scale project
444f10042e90008c…2e90008c…2022-10-31 22:44:23 asciilifeform still has the paper docs, obtained not with purchased bolixen but from retired mit fella. sometimes leafs through'em still
58fa65fdd059991f…7843b9af…2023-09-28 15:39:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030574 << oblig .
a23431de58fa65fd…d059991f…2023-09-28 15:41:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 21:48:10 signpost: the place to start this conversation is where one's ass sits. what would "sane computer" mean in your present context? what'd it enable that you currently can't do?
20faee825eaf489a…8c8fb263…2022-10-31 22:44:47 <phf> i've very glad i've resisted the urge to pick those up :D
57697087a23431de…58fa65fd…2023-09-28 15:41:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030591 << the interesting bit there is how in fact ~not~ very custom. (e.g. intel's 'nsa core' they stuff in all of their irons they 'trust' because only runs signed turds, but otherwise is bog-standard 'c machine' running... minix)
19a0630657697087…a23431de…2023-09-28 15:43:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:02:06 signpost: only way I've speculated one could do so is by first being wildly successful at something else. consider that the tech giants all *have* custom hardware they do trust much more than the off the shelf shit.
7753136bbb23b33c…20faee82…2022-10-31 22:45:51 <phf> takes up space, etc. also pretty much mechanized spooling of document explorer's contents
620a09a619a06306…57697087…2023-09-28 15:43:19 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030597 << observe that gestapo not at all busy shutting down 'home spaceports'. for the elementary reason of non-existence
5af2da6e7753136b…bb23b33c…2022-10-31 22:46:00 <asciilifeform> they were paperbacks, 8.5x11in. but good quality.
cfe54be4620a09a6…19a06306…2023-09-28 15:45:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:17:19 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: feds would be rather quick to shut down any home fab
623d30b7cfe54be4…620a09a6…2023-09-28 15:47:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030603 << sorta like asking 'what's the alternative to vodka & cirrhosis' ? individual q. answer it for yerself, find sumthing interesting that you actually want to do, with avail. resources
493f7742e811457b…e811457b…2022-10-31 22:46:51 <asciilifeform> they fit precisely in 1 standard 3ft shelf.
9c2911db623d30b7…cfe54be4…2023-09-28 15:49:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:23:26 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: so what's the alternative?
935826367c18724b…7c18724b…2023-09-28 15:49:13 <asciilifeform> it elementarily aint the case that 'need tmsc-scale fab & own spaceport & mars colony to do anyffin at all'
02f4885a93582636…9a8e7569…2023-09-28 15:50:30 <signpost> seems like americans exported the hell out of this notion that visualizing your "dreams" is somehow directly causal.
4154e6393e8bc29a…3e8bc29a…2022-11-01 16:38:45 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-31#1015119 << re this, i'm not sure how this kind of reversing work (my only exposure to it is reading bunnie's xbox hacking book like a decade ago), but besides netlist also need to smh dump the microcode that's embedded in ivory
a27d3ebe3fb389be…04326e59…2023-09-28 15:50:39 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-15 asciilifeform: mangol: it may help to look at subj again after shedding 'desire to feel personally significant' and concern with 'critical masses'.
480a83a84154e639…ad595f58…2022-11-01 16:39:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 18:32:57 asciilifeform[6]: ( it aint as if photo == netlist, naturally, that -- by hand, sit for yr+... )
081295d9a27d3ebe…02f4885a…2023-09-28 15:50:50 <signpost> gotta have the Big Vision, and believe in it like a southern preacher pretends to.
bf187496480a83a8…52a94146…2022-11-01 16:41:04 <asciilifeform> phf: netlist traditionally refers to all the transistors. the microcode tho iirc is actually on the ivory cd, for some unknown reason (tho would still want to see whether same as the iron one)
1a3c4f5f081295d9…081295d9…2023-09-28 15:51:38 <signpost> (clears throat) prayer is how they taught you to sit on your hands.
619d35e0bf187496…4154e639…2022-11-01 16:42:24 <phf> right, the point was that you get the netlist out by "tracing the datapaths by hand", and it's a different process, conceptually, from "extracting a rom data from a chip"
2d79d3551a3c4f5f…3fb389be…2023-09-28 15:51:58 <asciilifeform> signpost: sadly not uniquely american disease. is disease of folx who not picked up either of the two fundamental skills ( a) 'make things with hands' b) 'convince people to make things for you' ) growing up
eaf71b72619d35e0…bf187496…2022-11-01 16:42:58 <asciilifeform> afaik thing had no way of loading revised microcode, so nfi why it was distributed with the thing, come to think of it
9919b0ac2d79d355…2d79d355…2023-09-28 15:53:06 <asciilifeform> there's a mass of these 'bonsai kittens' around, and unfortunately not only in usa. some -- defo curable, others -- surplus biomass doomed to sit with open mouth waiting for rain
3718da1aeaf71b72…eaf71b72…2022-11-01 16:43:55 <asciilifeform> extracting microcode tho is 1 of the easier parts of jpg->netlist, as it is arranged in mask rom in grid pattern
79ab74e99919b0ac…9919b0ac…2023-09-28 15:58:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-27#1030612 << the moar 'american' disease is the notion that invididual 'wins' (by conquering known universe, nuffin else 'counts') or else 'loses'. the concept of 'make microscopic dent in the enemy line and yer life was not lived for nuffin' has turned into some kinda 'exotic kungfu' a
a91ba2173718da1a…3718da1a…2022-11-01 16:44:07 <asciilifeform> it's errything ~else~ that is 1st class bitch
9841e3e479ab74e9…9c2911db…2023-09-28 16:00:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:40:35 signpost: you either win against the empire with a huge technical leap that saturates the world faster than they can react, or by killing it.
4fcab541a91ba217…619d35e0…2022-11-01 16:44:22 <phf> ah, so you basically see 1 and 0s from the jpegs?
cc9cb5ed9841e3e4…8a9bf6e1…2023-09-28 15:59:04 <asciilifeform> ... has turned into some kinda 'exotic kungfu' among reich victims
b75720e7cc9cb5ed…cc9cb5ed…2023-09-28 16:02:45 <asciilifeform> if one wants a thing that he can't buy at lolmart (e.g. fits-in-head computer) , the avail. actions are logically obvious -- a) get hold of req'd resources, bake it yerself b) find who can help you, help'em get hold of req'd resources c) wagner & cyanide
be578d3efd1f87e9…fd1f87e9…2022-11-01 16:46:12 <asciilifeform> example of ucode extraction from (early '80s) ic fwiw.
0eb3264ebe578d3e…4fcab541…2022-11-01 16:47:21 <phf> i've not really studied it in detail, but ivory i take it is just a vlsi take on traditional cadr/3600 "microcode evaluator" architecture
f259a7e6b129eb4d…b129eb4d…2023-09-28 16:04:17 <asciilifeform> ... and if yer asking for sumthing that is likely to take multiple lifetimes to bake, be prepared to contribute 1 of these lifetimes.
1529d8750eb3264e…0eb3264e…2022-11-01 16:48:27 <phf> from that perspective the vlm implementation is deceptively more similar to "modern" cpu approach, where each instruction has its dedicated implementation on die, rather than being a microcode vop
4ff094e50eb3264e…be578d3e…2022-11-01 16:48:45 <asciilifeform> iirc 'ivory' used 'vertical' (i.e. sequences of microinstructions) rather than 'horizontal' (toggles circuits in parallel) microcode, but nfi concretely
145d17c5f259a7e6…f259a7e6…2023-09-28 16:05:06 <asciilifeform> with 0 reward. (if there were a reward attached, you could then already buy $item at lolmart.)
ea4ceea21529d875…4ff094e5…2022-11-01 16:50:13 <asciilifeform> fwiw doc from 'anon informant'(tm) gives recipe for reading ucode via the pins; may be easier than via microscope (or at least to cross-check output of the latter, given as errything ~else~ can only be seen via microscope)
865bb6f7145d17c5…1a3c4f5f…2023-09-28 17:47:44 <signpost> all that said, when crt or whomever has a wrong idea, it isn't like this merits a crucifixion, and one'd be well served to see someone taking the time to have a thread with you as a friendly act.
45a55f17ea4ceea2…ea4ceea2…2022-11-01 16:51:47 <asciilifeform> also allows to read out microcode program counter (step through indiv. uinstructions)
774d9e3c865bb6f7…9841e3e4…2023-09-28 17:49:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 23:57:17 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: I really have nothing useful to contribute to this conversation, probably no near future ones either
a3ec325545a55f17…45a55f17…2022-11-01 16:53:01 <asciilifeform> the macroscopic schema of the thing is in the '87 press release fwiw.
a6d38f6f774d9e3c…865bb6f7…2023-09-28 17:52:01 <signpost> asciilifeform handed ya an incremental step towards sane compute here, could go and make a crappy version of this for fun.
2e204304a3ec3255…1529d875…2022-11-01 16:54:04 <phf> right right, architecture docs seemed to imply that you can put ivory on a bench, bootstrap it pretty much by just bringing it to power, and then inspect rom state using very straightforward programmer style interface
34371118a6d38f6f…774d9e3c…2023-09-28 17:53:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 20:17:03 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: 2 colors of jack, 'red' (faces yer lan) and 1 or moar 'black' (faces heathen isp)
a0f338bd2e204304…2e204304…2022-11-01 16:54:25 <phf> i'm starting to remember things. i feel like i relearn the same facts about ivory every couple of years
6d8dad0f34371118…a6d38f6f…2023-09-28 17:52:14 <signpost> not like one has to, but seems aligned with what you want.
4b38a333a0f338bd…a3ec3255…2022-11-01 16:55:31 <asciilifeform> best public photo of the die afaik, ftr.
1808e4d66d8dad0f…145d17c5…2023-09-28 17:55:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: current-day reich culture gives young folx screamingly unrealistic expectations ('you told me to bake $widget, but how does this kill hitler?') and 1st step in any kinda salvage of lost souls is inescapably to cure same
4431e1fb6d8dad0f…68350760…2023-09-29 21:52:20 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-29#1031176 << /me has been giving this a lot of thought recently, interesting that it's come up in parallel. Working on reading through item.
4afb367b1808e4d6…1808e4d6…2023-09-28 17:57:52 <asciilifeform> the other thing, that imho can sometimes be accomplished by conversation , if you can get the sufferer to sit still for same, is to point out 'low-hanging fruit'
f1fd48bd4431e1fb…40ff5335…2023-09-29 21:52:05 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 14:55:42 gregorynyssa[asciilifeform]: Are you still working on your own HDL language to compete against Verilog and VHDL?
d538f3054431e1fb…8e77d54d…2023-09-29 21:54:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-02 17:47:11 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: I don't trust any src from this person to be untampered with, considering they seem unable to secure a machine that serves html opposed to an entire development toolchain.
5282ee493ef0213c…4b38a333…2022-11-01 16:58:34 <asciilifeform> phf: was from anuther paper of theirs, can't seem to find the orig locally tho
bf174a684afb367b…4afb367b…2023-09-28 17:58:13 <asciilifeform> e.g. 'sea of gates' fpga plenty big enuff to hold a nic phy + pestron has been avail. for 5+ yrs nao
850bf7b4f1fd48bd…4431e1fb…2023-09-29 21:56:16 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: ^ is above true? I'm envisioning something based on s-expr. Would like to know what headway you've made on an alt HDL
3117c72f5282ee49…3ef0213c…2022-11-01 16:59:29 <phf> there's that same basic photo in one of the vlsi conference proceedings that i have, but the quality is much lower
017e1975bf174a68…bf174a68…2023-09-28 17:58:29 <asciilifeform> ( and unsurprisingly afaik nuffin interesting baked, publicly, from same )
b92b6d4f850bf7b4…850bf7b4…2023-09-29 22:08:11 crtdaydreams would like to clarify that is not interested in any kind of "competition" with existing langs, rather the utility of expressing the hw in e.g. s-expr
90368b0d3117c72f…3117c72f…2022-11-01 17:01:33 <phf> "notes on future implementations of ivory chip" oh sweet summer child
7a423c71b92b6d4f…1e79a997…2023-10-01 17:24:27 <unpx> signpost: I'm still waiting for an explaination about "online codes are not DHT for signpost" thing.
eed1127790368b0d…5282ee49…2022-11-01 17:02:42 <asciilifeform> the photo is prolly of the pre-release die.
0a74b7a37a423c71…7a423c71…2023-10-01 17:28:19 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-27#1030997 <<< I see this and the only thing I can do is waiting March to get money from an internship and throw them to the problem or something. Trying to finish what I started by then.
a57407d8eed11277…90368b0d…2022-11-01 17:03:43 <phf> there's by the way also http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/symbolics/Sunstone_Architecture_198711.pdf which was supposed to be next gen, and i don't have any info on except that one pdf
85d7f4810a74b7a3…f1fd48bd…2023-10-01 17:28:20 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-27 11:09:18 asciilifeform: naturally this requires irons, to interface to heathen net, which actually implement pest (and ~only it~, not anyffin else, not linux, not bsd ip stack, not porous intel/broadcom/etc nic, etc.)
7e280d2fa57407d8…eed11277…2022-11-01 17:04:47 <asciilifeform> right, that 1 afaik only existed as marketing lit (and possibly a demo unit or 2, sitting in indiana jones warehouse sumwhere)
387058b385d7f481…6d8dad0f…2023-10-01 17:29:49 <signpost> this is a rude way to prompt a conversation
c183cb5e7e280d2f…7e280d2f…2022-11-01 17:05:17 <asciilifeform> this brochure fwiw had a higher quality scan of the block schem.
190ee183c183cb5e…a57407d8…2022-11-01 17:10:56 <phf> we should bring back measuring things in GIGAWORDs
2ec3e0131b3044af…0a74b7a3…2023-10-01 17:31:40 <unpx> Currently, the things a cryptographer can do as internship is IAM and other authn/z stuff. Or using blockchain where it is not needed. Will see which silly company will require my knowledge, hope not another bank. (dunno if ppl are still using DES for bank transactions)
12f0732f190ee183…c183cb5e…2022-11-01 17:11:43 <asciilifeform> indeed (along with, naturally, tagged words, rather than byte-addressed soup)
1e353bf72ec3e013…2ec3e013…2023-10-01 17:39:34 <unpx> signpost: rude? Anyway, I would like to study the current DHT protocol and see what I can do.
d65efa4b12f0732f…190ee183…2022-11-01 17:12:01 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-01#1015179 << that is basically your cadr architecture, but on a chip
aacbff5b1e353bf7…85d7f481…2023-10-01 17:39:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-07-25 23:35:28 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-25#1010637 << when mentioned earlier, flamed
536a2098d65efa4b…480a83a8…2022-11-01 17:12:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-01 13:06:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: this brochure fwiw had a higher quality scan of the block schem.
d08425fdaacbff5b…aacbff5b…2023-10-01 17:39:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-22 04:42:58 unpx[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-21#1030887 <<< after reviewing it better, bdl is exactly what I said, a "spray and pray". And you even extend the message length in hope the receiver is able to solve the random jigsaw. At that point you just run a DHT as ascii e
23f8f3cc536a2098…12f0732f…2022-11-01 17:13:15 <asciilifeform> well, 3600 was 'cadr on steroids', and 'ivory' -- logical progression, with moar instrs & moarbitness
fd76e376d08425fd…1b3044af…2023-10-01 17:40:32 <signpost> a DHT is aside the question of a transfer protocol.
516df56cd08425fd…3f1a73c3…2023-10-01 17:41:41 <signpost> and yes, "I'm still waiting for an explanation" is rude. ask a specific question if you have one.
c2e4541723f8f3cc…23f8f3cc…2022-11-01 17:17:59 <asciilifeform> the 'ivory in space' piece seems to confirm the 'verticality' of the ucode :
55c06f09516df56c…c4a1c873…2023-10-01 18:38:56 asciilifeform still not grasps where the hell anyffin resembling a dht could belong in pest
f620e684516df56c…b92b6d4f…2023-10-02 03:28:00 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-01#1031213 << was asking if you'd even developed a rudimentary idea of what you want, obviously as you've stated you haven't poked a stick at it
3da2a34155c06f09…55c06f09…2023-10-01 18:39:20 <asciilifeform> dht as familiar to asciilifeform concerns p2p nets where yer pulling chunks of a warez from 'over9000' strangers
75368c90f620e684…a79941f2…2023-10-02 03:27:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-01 14:51:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030686 << could try, lol, reading the logs? (on the same fucking page...!)
ecad0df4b9d79b9b…b9d79b9b…2022-11-01 17:18:06 <asciilifeform> the instruction, decodes it, and adjusts the program
e9372e273da2a341…3da2a341…2023-10-01 18:48:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030683 << can't help but picture sumbody, sumwhere, still reading the leaked win2k src from 2003...
9078531e75368c90…52b696c8…2023-10-02 03:29:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 17:57:56 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: asciilifeform: ^ is above true? I'm envisioning something based on s-expr. Would like to know what headway you've made on an alt HDL
3af62623ecad0df4…ecad0df4…2022-11-01 17:18:08 <asciilifeform> counter. The second stage fetches the initial microinstruction, computes the operand address, and adjusts the stack pointer. The third stage fetches the
f24c24cde9372e27…d538f305…2023-10-01 18:50:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 17:54:00 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-29#1031176 << /me has been giving this a lot of thought recently, interesting that it's come up in parallel. Working on reading through [https://github.com/YosysHQ/yo
7f8edd2f9078531e…f620e684…2023-10-02 03:30:59 <crtdaydreams> if you think s-expr based hdl is retarded, fuckin say so
4629054e3af62623…3af62623…2022-11-01 17:18:10 <asciilifeform> operands and computes the result. The fourth stage
a79941f2f24c24cd…d08425fd…2023-10-01 18:48:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 14:55:42 gregorynyssa[asciilifeform]: Are you still working on your own HDL language to compete against Verilog and VHDL?
34c2a1247f8edd2f…7f8edd2f…2023-10-02 03:39:15 <crtdaydreams> ecp5 is sufficient for metacircular hw ftr. it's possible to load frames without reintializing the whole board, the caveat is that the 85 "sea-of-gates" board hasn't been fully documented and the addressing for the frames are non-linear (because fuckyou)
744735094629054e…4629054e…2022-11-01 17:18:12 <asciilifeform> stores the result, unless a fault has occurred, in which
ddf91bc2a79941f2…e9372e27…2023-10-01 18:50:14 asciilifeform still curious what annoying thing folx expect a boobytrapped fpga synth toolchain to do, aside from uploading yer src to pastebin for public to laff at or perhaps formatting yer hdd
b7601d7734c2a124…34c2a124…2023-10-02 03:40:38 <crtdaydreams> the smaller 45 chip has been fully documented tho
0e7f93de74473509…74473509…2022-11-01 17:18:14 <asciilifeform> case it restores the state of the third stage. yy
7f50cd2addf91bc2…ddf91bc2…2023-10-01 18:51:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030686 << could try, lol, reading the logs? (on the same fucking page...!)
3fbccb82b7601d77…b7601d77…2023-10-02 03:56:34 <crtdaydreams> even if just "faux lisp hdl" akin to cl-who
7c3454e30e7f93de…0e7f93de…2022-11-01 17:36:08 asciilifeform back in '19 drew up a test jig pcb for 'ivory', usb <-> fpga <-> 5v buffer <-> zif socket, but not had it baked
52b696c87f50cd2a…f24c24cd…2023-10-01 18:53:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 17:57:56 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: asciilifeform: ^ is above true? I'm envisioning something based on s-expr. Would like to know what headway you've made on an alt HDL
e30fa3083fbccb82…3fbccb82…2023-10-02 03:59:24 <crtdaydreams> if you have even the slightest inkling of how you'd structure a lispy way of thinking about hdl I want to hear about it
d0d2a3ba7c3454e3…d65efa4b…2022-11-01 18:06:54 <phf> i suspect the correct method to do an ivory-on-fpga is not to write a microcode evaluator by attempting to reconstruct netlists etc, but to write a compiler from microcode source to spit out verilog
7a6f733c52b696c8…7f50cd2a…2023-10-01 18:53:06 <asciilifeform> ... if asciilifeform 'made headway' on $problem, posts to www, mentions in logs. if you dun see it in either, then not made headway. is, usually, that simple.
b14060b8e30fa308…1e353bf7…2023-10-02 11:02:47 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-01#1031204 <<< [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-22#1030900][I keep thinking you didn
a821f0e5d0d2a3ba…7c3454e3…2022-11-01 18:08:03 <asciilifeform> phf: naturally, if had src, would be 0 reason to bother with micrography etc
4646f23a7a6f733c…7a6f733c…2023-10-01 18:54:09 asciilifeform mind boggled that -- how many times said 'for ~3y nao , working 80+h/w on commercial liquishit' but somehow goes in 1 ear, out of other
37cbe639b14060b8…75368c90…2023-10-02 11:02:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-01 13:40:33 signpost[asciilifeform]: a DHT is aside the question of a transfer protocol.
b345b486a821f0e5…d0d2a3ba…2022-11-01 18:10:05 <phf> i suspect that most recent versions of system don't really leak past micrcode, that is the whole system is expessed in terms of microcode vop, rather than e.g. a mixture of instructions for cpu and vop calls
dd72d0e637cbe639…37cbe639…2023-10-02 11:02:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-22 07:39:45 unpx[asciilifeform]: Moreover, digging around, the author is the same that proposed the current DHT stuff https://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html
b5f7507db345b486…a821f0e5…2022-11-01 18:11:25 <asciilifeform> possibly only issues explicit uinstrs (appears to be allowed, 1 at a time) if the iron ucode not == to the 1 distributed on disk
cec76687b5f7507d…b345b486…2022-11-01 18:12:21 <phf> right, that's how for example how cadr system did it, a mixture of explicit "uinstrs" and ucode calls
2f7244dc1c301af6…4646f23a…2023-10-02 14:18:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-02#1030717 << equiv. of verilog in sexpr notation would be a start
b093289ccec76687…cec76687…2022-11-01 18:16:26 <phf> but also like vlm is not a ivory OR 3600 machine emulator, so for all i know they hacked up the compiler so it's a significantly different beast
8b18fb632f7244dc…9078531e…2023-10-02 14:20:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-02 00:01:06 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: if you have even the slightest inkling of how you'd structure a lispy way of thinking about hdl I want to hear about it
76e4686ab093289c…b5f7507d…2022-11-01 18:16:53 asciilifeform ftr not knows the precise difference b/w the os distributed with the dec/x86 emulator and the macivory's -- possibly this is the key difference
6b8736e38b18fb63…2f7244dc…2023-10-02 14:18:43 <asciilifeform> this is currently somewhere tied for dead last on 'list of open problems asciilifeform gives a fuck about' currently, fwiw
59e80e1c76e4686a…b093289c…2022-11-01 18:21:19 <phf> yeah, the vlm documentation is pretty sparse ( i mean in document examiner )
c981a95f6b8736e3…516df56c…2023-10-02 16:11:40 <signpost> unpx: I don't know what you're going on about; I am well aware that the authors of the online-codes paper are also the authors of the kademlia paper.
2bf4509859e80e1c…59e80e1c…2022-11-01 18:21:33 <phf> e.g. there's a section for IBIN (obv without details), but not even a mention of VBIN
1fab2518c981a95f…c981a95f…2023-10-02 16:12:19 <signpost> I don't know what the fuck a DHT has to do with file transfers among known and trusted peers. nobody present afaik is currently contemplating an allcomers filesharing network.
11ee77fe2bf45098…2bf45098…2022-11-01 20:50:46 <phf> completely unrelated question but did anyone (signpost?) try building the absolute minimal framebuffer xorg?
0657b7c91fab2518…1fab2518…2023-10-02 16:13:25 <signpost> at any rate, your low-effort communication is grating. try harder.
6262180011ee77fe…11ee77fe…2022-11-01 20:51:56 <phf> actually no i lied, it's a very much related question. genera talks over network to clx, so i want to build an xorg on a small laptop that doesn't have all the various ((dependencies)). e.g. don't need freetype or of the freedesktop functionality
e623c7b60657b7c9…0657b7c9…2023-10-02 16:14:37 <signpost> if you have some kind of a DHT boner, go, implement! who's stopping you?
911fe74462621800…76e4686a…2022-11-01 21:13:38 <asciilifeform> phf: a while ago asciilifeform built an xorg for rk, but never tested ( couldn't get fb going on that thing )
d4d1ea3ee623c7b6…1c301af6…2023-10-03 13:24:05 <unpx> signpost: without a DHT, are you suggesting an FTP style DIR/GET to fetch files? DHT is used to know which files are available in the network. If it is just a "I can only see my wot's directory", then okay, it's another thing. I'm trying to clarify the goal of the protocol since we do not want a gopher here.
6ca6b064911fe744…911fe744…2022-11-01 21:14:07 <asciilifeform> not certain it was 'minimal' in the sense described, also ( defo included freetype, sumthing depended on it )
01462758d4d1ea3e…d4d1ea3e…2023-10-03 13:25:08 <unpx> I'm using gopher as an example of limited protocol. Indeed, specs have been updated for multiline.
7efabfc26ca6b064…6ca6b064…2022-11-01 21:15:41 <asciilifeform> iirc genera's x11ism is quite compat, even seen to work with crapple's x ( does crapple still include it on the new arm boxen? )
90cc04d07efabfc2…62621800…2022-11-01 21:16:03 <phf> no, separate install, but has been mostly kept up to date
61ae3aef96294e4a…96294e4a…2022-11-01 21:16:41 asciilifeform at one time used a crapple 'mbp' as an xterm
68e6aea3310f3a17…310f3a17…2023-10-06 15:27:57 <shinohai> Bot back online it appears, storm knocked everything offline while I was afk
cb6fe05b61ae3aef…90cc04d0…2022-11-01 21:19:24 <phf> i'm looking at the xserver sources and it looks like "xquartz" is mainlined
532c281168e6aea3…68e6aea3…2023-10-06 15:29:15 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030746 << Sadly it isn't portable (since afaik no good recipe for building static cl binaries yet) so http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030759 is much more fleshed out atm.
0196ac9dcb6fe05b…61ae3aef…2022-11-02 02:24:44 <asciilifeform> phf: does your arm-mac port of the emulator still use x11 for output? or has own fb
aea71225532c2811…57d954b0…2023-10-06 15:30:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 11:08:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030735 << shinohai had earlier dusted off a cl vtron by esthlos. see his www.
33df5b410196ac9d…0196ac9d…2022-11-02 02:25:41 asciilifeform would buy that emulator, fair an' square, like bought other dksisms, if were forsale
1f41442caea71225…aea71225…2023-10-06 15:30:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 19:35:46 signpost: pentacle builds a static bin of phf’s vtools
76efa8a7740d7ba2…44888a1b…2022-11-02 14:35:09 <shinohai> Doing some research on lilygo watch and a wild jurov appeared lol: http://forum.ulisp.com/t/lilygo-ttgo-t-watch-2020/605/4
fcf8395276efa8a7…3b6baddc…2022-11-02 14:42:54 <asciilifeform> shinohai: photo is defo of same fella ( met him in at mp's thing in '14 )
40b3fc77fcf83952…c9d378f3…2022-11-02 14:48:30 <billymg> god dammit, i think my isp here just started throttling torrents. ubuntu (as a test, 2k seeders) downloading at < 50kB/s
9e188b2f40b3fc77…fcf83952…2022-11-02 14:43:32 <asciilifeform> shinohai: not entirely surprising to see him in forums, d00d aint dead, just went for greener pastures.
aa8bb0b99e188b2f…9e188b2f…2022-11-02 14:44:16 <asciilifeform> billymg: only torrents, or errything 50kB/s ?
66cde5e957eb900d…e76d9eca…2022-11-02 14:46:03 asciilifeform at one time had 'they're throttling torrents' moment, but turned out to be misconfig'd nat
ade076854ba12108…4ba12108…2022-11-02 14:53:27 <billymg> and the torrents connect to plenty of peers, so not a discovery issue
4f941c4dade07685…ade07685…2022-11-02 14:54:04 <billymg> is why i tested the most mainstream torrent i could think of, the ubuntu iso
9b1b70254f941c4d…66cde5e9…2022-11-02 14:49:47 <asciilifeform> surprising that they weren't before ( fiber monopolies in bananistans, slicing a 10g/s pipe to oversell to 1e7 people. recall the piz pipe )
4fcffeae9b1b7025…4f941c4d…2022-11-02 14:56:54 <billymg> i haven't been living at this property for last 15 months, just recently moved back. but i noticed in the condo i was living in that my download (and upload) speeds suddenly tanked to ~50kB/s a couple of days ago
3abf028e4fcffeae…4fcffeae…2022-11-02 14:57:05 <billymg> that was a different isp (or possibly the same, but cable, not fiber)
912b28f53abf028e…3abf028e…2022-11-02 14:57:28 <billymg> so i figured, "oh well, moving out anyway", only to see the same thing here now
bb5872c7912b28f5…912b28f5…2022-11-02 15:03:14 <billymg> just emailed them asking more or less what their problem is
b07743aebb5872c7…bb5872c7…2022-11-02 15:04:12 billymg pays for 3 separate fiber optic connections from these guys, in total around $160/mo
850d7133b07743ae…b07743ae…2022-11-02 15:11:38 <billymg> just checked, was different isp at the other place
c8f8ea36440b6793…850d7133…2022-11-02 15:24:28 <billymg> one for me, one for groundskeeper about 150 meters away (on slower tier), one for rental units
155f22a9c8f8ea36…c8f8ea36…2022-11-02 15:25:32 <billymg> could be consolidated into one connection, with ethernet running through the conduits instead of the fiber cable
264aedda155f22a9…155f22a9…2022-11-02 15:26:29 <billymg> will see what they respond with, perhaps "must purchase 'commercial' plan if you want to torrent", in which case i would likely consolidate the three
4d87295f264aedda…264aedda…2022-11-02 15:27:55 <billymg> or see if any of the colo isps here don't mind me running a seedbox
16e32bfc4d87295f…1a9b0102…2022-11-02 15:48:26 <awt> Any particularly good warez/movies you are torrenting billmg?
02181f6d16e32bfc…4d87295f…2022-11-02 15:55:04 <billymg> every gamecube iso: 5307f0db418ae2cb1f01d5a1acd4f02389d19ae0; every ps2 iso: 8517b29d393c291aa331e9f479b3767321b200ed; every ps1 iso: 5206a9321690fed58785297fc88955c861fd0b6d
2e1b96f502181f6d…02181f6d…2022-11-02 15:58:43 billymg hasn't touched a game in the last two months or so but was into 'retro' emulation earlier in the year
678967572e1b96f5…2e1b96f5…2022-11-02 16:02:54 <billymg> for anyone that wants to look up those rom dumps, they can be found by entering the hashes into here: https://en.btdig.com/
2e0010be67896757…67896757…2022-11-02 16:04:05 <billymg> which i also thought was a neat project, written by a 'kevinlynx' who also does some lisp, erlang, and c stuff
315a12aa2e0010be…2e0010be…2022-11-02 16:25:30 <billymg> awt: if you're into that stuff, i found Parasite Eve and Ace Combat 2 for ps1 to be quite comfy
8feab7c5315a12aa…315a12aa…2022-11-02 16:40:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-01#1015211 << it's using x11. there's a precedent for fb, macivory was working directly with video memory blocks, but there's nobody capable and willing to do that hack
4692bac78feab7c5…536a2098…2022-11-02 16:41:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-01 22:25:46 asciilifeform[5]: phf: does your arm-mac port of the emulator still use x11 for output? or has own fb
5a16c39f0000000000000000…2022-11-28 20:04:56 <phf> imho texthash is a waste of space. there's already a mechanism for chain reconstruction, which is netchain/selfchain. this one just eats up 32 bytess without adding any extra guarantees (except testing that the counterparty's client is not broken)
fe9fab825a16c39f…5a16c39f…2022-11-28 20:20:35 <phf> asciilifeform, have you given a thought to ACTION? that's something that's not address in the spec, and if you're going to drop irc specific stuff probably should be
b7a509c9fe9fab82…d3c05b6b…2022-11-28 20:20:58 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform's rationale for texthash : 1) makes over9000 easier to organize incoming out-of-order chunks 2) provides at least modicum of resistance against buggy or otherwise misbehaving clients corrupting hearsayed chunks
8bc63a18b7a509c9…b7a509c9…2022-11-28 20:21:31 <asciilifeform> phf: not considered ACTION. (will need to remember how it was encoded traditionally...) may need explicit mention in spec
544036e18bc63a18…8bc63a18…2022-11-28 20:21:43 <asciilifeform> esp. considering that irc frontends may be with us for rather long time
4816fd39cb8eda09…cb8eda09…2022-11-28 20:22:41 <asciilifeform> oughta work without explicit knobs then
d2f06a0c4816fd39…4816fd39…2022-11-28 20:25:53 asciilifeform not defined wat-do if conflicting hearsay chunks in fact received (i.e. for some N, Of, and TextHash, different payloads.) if only couple -- can iterate over'em, reconstruct. but when to try? at any rate, oughta alert operator
ecd6c32bd2f06a0c…d2f06a0c…2022-11-28 20:27:35 <asciilifeform> notion is, if 1st chunk is immediate, and some number of subsequent chunks -- hearsays, ought not to have to wonder re authenticity of reconstructed payload
90b3ff4decd6c32b…ecd6c32b…2022-11-28 20:27:56 <asciilifeform> (i.e. if it reassembles and hashes to TextHash, whole thing can be displayed as 'immediate')
db81df4439d23955…3622739e…2022-11-28 20:28:44 <phf> i guess that makes authenticity of whole text as authorative as the most authorative chunk
8f2d08a1db203886…db203886…2022-11-28 20:29:20 <asciilifeform> and then not need to display thing in chunks, marking relayers for each
ba519efe8f2d08a1…8f2d08a1…2022-11-28 20:29:49 <asciilifeform> (display 'immediate' if any chunk immediate, or min-bounce-relayers of min-bounce chunk if none of it was)
92428451ba519efe…ba519efe…2022-11-28 20:30:29 <asciilifeform> ( if above not makes sense to anyone tuned in, plox to write in! )
a5ea588392428451…db81df44…2022-11-28 20:31:20 <phf> doesn't simplify the mechanism though, has to be an extra mechanism on top of existing mechanism.
07b855a8a5ea5883…a5ea5883…2022-11-28 20:31:59 <phf> like you build your missing packets the usual way, holes and all, chain validation, etc. and then once the whole chain is there need to get an aggregate, merge text, hash, etc.
372327f307b855a8…92428451…2022-11-28 20:32:37 <asciilifeform> phf: simplest mechanism is that you dun need to walk back over received msgs to know when it's time to reassemble a multi -- instead you spawn a data structure when see new texthash and fill the thing in
ef08658b372327f3…07b855a8…2022-11-28 20:33:24 <phf> and now your datastructure is "magic", when it comes to lost packets, etc.
4549b278ef08658b…372327f3…2022-11-28 20:33:57 <asciilifeform> 'magic' in that you gotta specify when to give up if somehow not got 1 or moar chunks, yes. but that problem would have even w/out texthash
aac71ea54549b278…ef08658b…2022-11-28 20:34:47 <phf> but that problem is solved in a generic way already, the tradeoff of your "just stuff it all into datastructure" is that datastructure is now a kind of subgraph, need to have all the ops special handled
1d72b0f2aac71ea5…4549b278…2022-11-28 20:35:19 <asciilifeform> you still gotta store reassembled multis' payloads in db in some reasonably o(1) way. so may as well allocate the space when see any chunk
c6e7a61a1d72b0f2…aac71ea5…2022-11-28 20:35:37 <phf> if i want to walk the graph and to getdata all the missing packets, or if i get a packet and want to check if it's in the graph, etc.
7ad5842baaf2faee…aaf2faee…2022-11-28 20:36:00 <asciilifeform> you dun wanna have to walk graph erry time scrolling log window etc tho
345444a97ad5842b…7ad5842b…2022-11-28 20:36:11 <asciilifeform> 1ce you have the full text reassembled, getting to it oughta be o(1)
992e95d2345444a9…345444a9…2022-11-28 20:36:21 <asciilifeform> i.e. it should behave, from operator pov, like a single msg
bb79309eafadc857…0f1d8d59…2022-11-28 20:38:50 <phf> e.g. there's no 1-to-1 correspondence between the backlog and the display on account of any number of potential holes, and the multipart is just a special case of hole sources
1938ed23bb79309e…bb79309e…2022-11-28 20:40:02 <phf> lacking something like "cells" architecture you're necessarily synchronizing a datastructure that manages missing packets, etc. with your display
7308789e1938ed23…1938ed23…2022-11-28 20:42:22 <phf> i guess a multipart bucket makes a certain kind of screen update "easier", since instead of figuring out where you need to insert new content by some kind of graph walk, you instead know "exactly"
a863718f7308789e…7308789e…2022-11-28 20:42:58 <phf> but you can't avoid that graph walk in a general case, because at any moment you might have some number of packets in flight
e790c3c2a863718f…afadc857…2022-11-28 21:22:40 <asciilifeform> phf: in asciilifeform's sketch of gui pestron: 'broken heart' is displayed b/w any 2 msgs where it is known there is 1 or more missing msg
60ba4991e790c3c2…e790c3c2…2022-11-28 21:23:09 <asciilifeform> if/when the msg(s) w/ desired hash arrive, the 'broken heart' is replaced with same
efbe89ae60ba4991…60ba4991…2022-11-28 21:23:35 <asciilifeform> no graph walking req'd (unless asciilifeform misunderstands what was meant)
8e019afeefbe89ae…efbe89ae…2022-11-28 21:25:16 <asciilifeform> when scrolling, db gets asked to supply msg with given hash (i.e. having the already displayed msg on tail of scroll as predecessor), if not found, but there's a msg with higher timestamp -- a brokenheart is shown.
4cea88798e019afe…8e019afe…2022-11-28 21:25:52 <asciilifeform> (higher timestamp & missing predecessor)
8c146b264cea8879…4cea8879…2022-11-28 21:26:18 <asciilifeform> concretely wat-do in re use of nethash to 'thread' msgs, is worth moar thought, and prolly section in spec.
5912dca38c146b26…8c146b26…2022-11-28 21:28:34 <asciilifeform> phf: under proposed algo, packets-in-flight dun demand graph walk -- given as they are marked with N/Of. can simply drop'em in the indicated position in prealloc'd space as they arrive.
9ec160325912dca3…5912dca3…2022-11-28 21:30:56 <asciilifeform> (with a clever db, not even need to make dedicated data structure for this -- simply 1st chunk with given texthash causes preallocation of contiguous space for 'Of' # of msgs; and the chunk seen sits down into the requested pos.)
9f7fe6d39ec16032…9ec16032…2022-11-28 21:31:39 <asciilifeform> the slots corresponding to the missing msgs are marked 'broken heart', and filled in as they come in in whatever order.
aff660cb9f7fe6d3…9f7fe6d3…2022-11-28 21:35:44 <asciilifeform> ( term 'brokenheart' cribbed here from the bolix people, who used it to represent 'transparent pointer' that gets followed silently, so that physically-uncontiguous (e.g. after gc) memory could be addressed as contiguous )
5522be60aff660cb…aff660cb…2022-11-28 21:36:53 <asciilifeform> this is how one can fill holes -- of width not known apriori -- after the fact, and still get close to o(1) access to the whole thing later
099ff4675522be60…5522be60…2022-11-28 21:37:19 asciilifeform in fact did think through, lol, but invites comments if missed sumthing
f7de661d099ff467…099ff467…2022-11-28 21:38:22 <asciilifeform> ideally db would store all (non-missing) msgs. in contiguous chain order, rearranging as req'd.
cc4b8b78f7de661d…a863718f…2022-11-28 23:46:21 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-28#1017078 << i gave up on trying to make it work using simple linear dump, with broken heart holes, because even now the graph of incoming pockets is more complicated than "just a missing packet here and there"
8215dd61cc4b8b78…cba4d860…2022-11-28 23:47:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 16:38:26 asciilifeform[5]: in fact did think through, lol, but invites comments if missed sumthing
43899f868215dd61…cc4b8b78…2022-11-28 23:47:31 <phf> so, yes, if you think that sequential storage of packets works, and can implement a reliable packets-insert function, then my concerns don't apply
1623040343899f86…43899f86…2022-11-28 23:48:49 <phf> *sequential storage meaning in flight runtime data, obviously that runtime data ultimately gets flattened and stored in db as a sequence of some sort. but i started with having my packets in a sequence, and then trying to write a "insert-packet" that also keeps track of missing hol |SgrpFG}3 (8M
f6c45cfc16230403…16230403…2022-11-28 23:48:49 <phf> es for the purposes of getdata, and the result was iffy |SgrpFG}3 (8M
3d342855f6c45cfc…f6c45cfc…2022-11-28 23:56:53 <phf> one reason for that is that while there's always one unique selfchain (since you're the one sending messages, you always have them in the order you sent them), because of transmission delays and failures netchain is subjective to each station.
95ec0c9e3d342855…3d342855…2022-11-29 00:04:57 <phf> and the implications of that behavior are varied. like for example somebody might be getting the packets, but for some reason outgoing packets are getting stuck. why? who knows! internet routing magic
b821fc6395ec0c9e…95ec0c9e…2022-11-29 00:06:58 <phf> so you have everyone sharing the netchain, because they're seeing the messages in order, all at the same time. so i respond to you, you respond to me, all's fine. but this thid person with his weird internet delays is also responding to us, but we never see his messages, until the TdN
hZ*F!V$'R
39311b4ab821fc63…b821fc63…2022-11-29 00:06:58 <phf> router magic gets unkinked, and his responses all come through at the same time TdN
hZ*F!V$'R
277d3bfa39311b4a…39311b4a…2022-11-29 00:13:01 <phf> so your netchain is not so much a netchain as it is as net-directed-acyclic-graph
7ed50280277d3bfa…277d3bfa…2022-11-29 00:17:56 <phf> you can punt on that complexity by implementing a heuristic based packet-insert that essentially maintains a stable topological sort of your directed-acyclic-graph, but having attempted that i have a hunch that the approach is not the best
bb49d90a7ed50280…7ed50280…2022-11-29 00:28:10 <phf> i'd at least try and prototype some of these emergent behaviors kind of like http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-07#1012520 because it's possible that i'm overthinking the complexity, and then having a concrete pseudocode algorithm would be helpful, but it's also possible that your 7ӒY웻ŧN1V7.'J0R
6417b4a6bb49d90a…bb49d90a…2022-11-29 00:28:10 <phf> intuition for the protocol's behavior reflect best case, rather than quirks of real world 7ӒY웻ŧN1V7.'J0R
6c1d9ca4bb49d90a…8215dd61…2022-11-29 00:29:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-07 17:20:49 phf[awt]: current state of simulation code http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TzYt
99c95fa36417b4a6…f7de661d…2022-11-29 01:03:12 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform would be a dirty liar if said that he has final-solution to the pest db problem. esp. in light of fact that he'd like to store ~tree~
92d73a4805745044…05745044…2022-11-29 01:03:54 <asciilifeform> there's doubtless a reasonably-compact way to do it, esp. if willing to periodically compact the datastructure
2794edc792d73a48…92d73a48…2022-11-29 01:04:07 <asciilifeform> (i.e. rearrange things into a logical order)
13672d612794edc7…2794edc7…2022-11-29 01:04:38 <asciilifeform> fwiw none of this is detailed in the current spec, still needs thought.
dcd7e85f13672d61…13672d61…2022-11-29 01:05:30 <asciilifeform> ( in asciilifeform's mental picture, in gui msg has 'reply' button appear when moused over, and can extend a thread that way, as seen in certain heathen chats )
880006eedcd7e85f…dcd7e85f…2022-11-29 01:06:24 asciilifeform has used various heathen chats for commercial clients, and imho most of the knobs they offer could easily exist in pest
75e8b4d7880006ee…880006ee…2022-11-29 01:07:56 <asciilifeform> the current forced linearity of msgs, and the need for logotron links to carry a thread, imho is braindamaged and entirely avoidable if netchain is used properly
dc71885175e8b4d7…75e8b4d7…2022-11-29 01:08:58 <asciilifeform> ( the old logotrons, ideally, can be thrown out once a pestron exists that can serve its log over www )
c4268a4bdc718851…dc718851…2022-11-29 01:09:47 <asciilifeform> ... then and only then can 100% dispense with the irc-compat. frontend
5ac16ff6c4268a4b…c4268a4b…2022-11-29 01:10:53 asciilifeform still pondering whether dedicated 'this is a reply' bit is req'd, or can be avoided
814d214d8383a7b6…e3fb5a7f…2022-11-29 15:04:19 <asciilifeform> in other oddities: namecheap 'oopsed' 'therealbitcoin.org' dns : jurov had transferred it to asciilifeform's acct in '21 ( along with 'thebitcoin.foundation', which still worx ) but recently 'untransfered' (??!) and nao again seems to point to jurov's long-dead box
e36d6794814d214d…814d214d…2022-11-29 15:04:45 <asciilifeform> so plox to use http://thebitcoin.foundation , and remember that dns suxx.
3fb8b056e36d6794…41199613…2022-11-29 15:24:23 <signpost> another item that will be mighty nice to denote in the pest chain.
deab1709a29efe12…a29efe12…2022-11-29 15:24:51 <signpost> seems like we lost our peering a few days ago when my IP changed
ca87648ddeab1709…8fa24add…2022-11-29 15:25:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: paste (or pgpgram if prefer) new AT entry plox
3e738cadca87648d…ca87648d…2022-11-29 15:27:18 asciilifeform seeing signpost[4]... so oddly enuff 4 other folx not lost?
b415d8b33e738cad…deab1709…2022-11-29 15:27:47 <signpost> yeah, looks like most of my peerings survived
5ad849ee48024b2f…48024b2f…2022-11-29 15:28:26 signpost prefers to spare details from log for now, but mighty happy guy over here today.
ea009ebf8a3fa956…a74ef893…2022-11-29 15:36:55 <signpost> looks like crtdaydreams and mod6 may want to try updating AT entry for me too ^
a69e5a1aadcd45c1…8a3fa956…2022-11-29 16:00:23 <asciilifeform> signpost: if you've the cycles, would like to hear yer take on yest's pest mechanics thrd.
3f83af62a69e5a1a…adcd45c1…2022-11-29 16:21:04 <signpost> happy to, probably can reread later this afternoon. was following along via log-viewer as time permitted yesterday.
dbb7b07d6fbe3dc7…ecdd5dfa…2022-11-29 17:04:00 <asciilifeform> billymg: seems to have missed a line today
e7f31285a4c4808b…a4c4808b…2022-11-29 17:15:55 <asciilifeform> ( and various other, fella's still inbiz evidently )
3532bb0be7f31285…104b6db0…2022-11-29 17:22:52 <billymg> asciilifeform: interesting, when i tried to import the missing lines from your logger's raw endpoint i got a complaint about duplicate lines. then i noticed our indices were out of sync, but with bitdash being ahead rather than behind. walking back manually led me to http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-11-09, which i
be10ef703532bb0b…3532bb0b…2022-11-29 17:23:07 <billymg> ...which it looks like your logger somehow missed
6c56801feaf508fd…eaf508fd…2022-11-29 17:17:58 asciilifeform reset that thing to date at least 2x, and evidently missed
c99504ea74d93e6e…6c1d9ca4…2022-11-29 17:19:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 20:10:04 asciilifeform[4]: ( the old logotrons, ideally, can be thrown out once a pestron exists that can serve its log over www )
d62c0f3ac99504ea…be10ef70…2022-11-29 17:26:48 <billymg> asciilifeform: for now if you first import the raw #a logs from bitdash from that date to current then our indices will be synced up and i can import your lines from where my bot crapped out
2b4a87f3d62c0f3a…d62c0f3a…2022-11-29 17:28:04 billymg would like to look into a true pest logotron but sadly still occupied with irl obligations
fd558b282b4a87f3…74d93e6e…2022-11-29 17:23:10 <asciilifeform> billymg: problem is that over9000 links will go outta sync
68cc259afd558b28…fd558b28…2022-11-29 17:23:33 <asciilifeform> there's afaik no clean pill for this shit
18206e13a8ce38df…a8ce38df…2022-11-29 22:40:41 <phf> asciilifeform, awt, you guys mind adding a peering for "a111"
f70acf5b18206e13…18206e13…2022-11-29 23:00:20 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-11-29#1017118 << what's the acreage!
c342ab20f70acf5b…c99504ea…2022-11-29 23:01:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-29 10:29:31 signpost: prefers to spare details from log for now, but mighty happy guy over here today.
4151342fb5919e28…c1e57578…2022-11-29 23:14:58 <signpost> thanks a bunch man, all well, and overjoyed.
09c48aa0b1f8e1ac…b1f8e1ac…2022-11-29 23:41:40 asciilifeform will make anuther one for desk, but atm suspects the port fwding of being borked there
a15d8da76d15fca5…6d15fca5…2022-12-08 16:00:02 <lobbes> hi unpx (odd, I only see your hello from the logs, not my station; possibly it is eating through the backlog atm)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 42dad8e760caaa695b05104b8472e648c0f59b71e534295aee642e3644e6cf90) prior to <phf> ---
a825c0230622ed92…0622ed92…2022-12-19 15:57:08 <signpost> looks like a blatta hearsay relay bug eh? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1jWo
6b08655ea825c023…a825c023…2022-12-19 15:57:27 <signpost> deedbot only has a record of receving it, not sending
484deab86b08655e…6b08655e…2022-12-19 15:57:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018957 << a ok, it was a night of miracles :D
08d1474d484deab8…5b1e2ffc…2022-12-19 15:58:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 01:25:24 jesus[awt]: i am the way, the truth, and the life.
d90cefc408d1474d…109535e9…2022-12-19 16:05:21 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018968 << deedbot was probably my bug, but i can't figure out from code what sequence of events could've led to it
4cc44130d90cefc4…08d1474d…2022-12-19 16:06:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 10:58:58 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018957 << a ok, it was a night of miracles :D
89c6db134cc44130…75ee7a04…2022-12-19 18:34:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018966 << there is defo some brokenness of the 'thinks $peer's packet is own' type remaining in blatta -- iirc seen befoar (tho can't find in log)
c0a7254389c6db13…4cc44130…2022-12-19 18:35:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 10:58:15 signpost: looks like a blatta hearsay relay bug eh? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1jWo
f9bdbea3c0a72543…89c6db13…2022-12-19 18:35:27 <asciilifeform> ( the seal, recall, does not allow to distinguish which side sent. so is theoretically possible to misattribute, unless pestron -- as per new spec -- hashes ~every~ emitted packet and keeps hash in dedupe cache, ~prior~ to sending it)
8163830ff9bdbea3…f9bdbea3…2022-12-19 18:38:07 <asciilifeform> ( fwiw could be different sort of bug (i.e. alters speaker somehow during processing), asciilifeform not read enuff src to be certain )
75cc231a8163830f…8163830f…2022-12-19 18:40:28 <asciilifeform> fwiw the '!!help' did in fact come outta deedbot's station, per asciilifeform's log (rather than hearsay with mutated speaker or the like)
597afddc75cc231a…484deab8…2022-12-19 18:41:18 <signpost> maybe so, but did not hit the bot sitting behind the station
31772e74597afddc…597afddc…2022-12-19 18:41:24 <signpost> so looks like yep, station bug of some kind
07f5dd11636b9565…636b9565…2022-12-19 18:41:54 signpost has record of all comings and goings independently of blatta
d83ea58707f5dd11…75cc231a…2022-12-19 18:54:35 <asciilifeform> right, seems unlikely that irc side had anyffin to do with it
6919641dd83ea587…d83ea587…2022-12-19 21:11:37 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-18#1018947 << dear sirs madams, please do the dutyfull
5dae0c5a6919641d…c0a72543…2022-12-19 21:12:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 23:53:09 phf[awt]: can someone well connected please post their AT
2bce67f958be2aaa…6919641d…2022-12-19 21:13:30 <phf> i mean the whole thing, so i don't need to ask everyone individually for their updated ips
cae47d58eb58403d…b6ad1271…2022-12-19 21:16:09 <signpost> hey man, asciilifeform insisted network details oughta be least disclosure necessary
472d0a9fcae47d58…cae47d58…2022-12-19 21:16:19 signpost doesn't give a shit if his IP's in logs, clearly
3ce3055a93f48398…93f48398…2022-12-19 21:17:39 <phf> i mean it's the same one i had for like 10 years, but i once went two weeks unable to remember what it was
77281af43ce3055a…3ce3055a…2022-12-19 21:19:13 <phf> also, in somewhat unrelated. i discovered a kind of multipeer "receipt" confirmation. if you have a roster of live stations, can send you broadcast only to a subset of them, the packets will propagate, and the live ones will send you your packet back
352534d677281af4…472d0a9f…2022-12-19 21:19:46 signpost has this happen with zip codes, pin codes, etc., time to time.
15086ecf352534d6…352534d6…2022-12-19 21:20:03 <signpost> where suddenly my brain has rearranged indices such that one of these is what it was a decade ago
0e0fbc3215086ecf…77281af4…2022-12-19 21:22:38 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018994 << which is also a kind of impersonation protection. if you get a packet from yourself, can check own backlog to see if you sent it, and then send it back to the station that you got the packet from. this way you also complete the "broadcast is sent to all peers" requirement.
1ca748280e0fbc32…5dae0c5a…2022-12-19 21:23:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 16:20:22 phf[awt]: also, in somewhat unrelated. i discovered a kind of multipeer "receipt" confirmation. if you have a roster of live stations, can send you broadcast only to a subset of them, the packets will propagate, and the live ones will send you your packet back
7949e01f1ca74828…0e0fbc32…2022-12-19 21:23:18 <phf> well, peering will have to wait i guess. i can't remember the damn password
49bd26457949e01f…7949e01f…2022-12-19 21:24:22 <phf> i would say "send it to me dm", but we don't have peering!
b211201ef740c7b6…1ca74828…2022-12-19 21:29:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-14 11:42:14 asciilifeform[6]: PeterL: 100.15.116.69:1337
bf964005b211201e…f740c7b6…2022-12-19 21:30:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018993 << asciilifeform one time thought 'that's it, brain damage' when 'couldn't remember pw', turned out to be boojum afflicting keyboard ('model f' with imperfect retrofit controller, key 'bounced')
1e550ad4bf964005…b211201e…2022-12-19 21:31:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 16:18:50 phf[awt]: i mean it's the same one i had for like 10 years, but i once went two weeks unable to remember what it was
e3828836213a137f…bf964005…2022-12-19 21:32:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-19#1018994 << this'll work, obv. if they're all peered in such a way that the path dun max out bounce (or get deduped) anywhere on the way back
2f075c07e3828836…1e550ad4…2022-12-19 21:33:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-19 16:20:22 phf[awt]: also, in somewhat unrelated. i discovered a kind of multipeer "receipt" confirmation. if you have a roster of live stations, can send you broadcast only to a subset of them, the packets will propagate, and the live ones will send you your packet back
d71453422f075c07…e3828836…2022-12-19 21:33:13 <asciilifeform> ( 1 of the reasons why dedupe and cap bounce is so that packets dun waste bw going in circles )
ed5234abd7145342…213a137f…2022-12-19 21:34:23 <phf> well, as of right now i'm still only sending one broadcast packet to a handchosen counterparty (awt specifically) and get all my packets back
804d6cabed5234ab…ed5234ab…2022-12-19 21:34:42 <phf> 2 bounce from deedbot and 3 bounce from dulapbot specifically
44c10d77804d6cab…d7145342…2022-12-19 21:34:48 <asciilifeform> phf: dulapbot: 205.134.172.3:13337 ( iirc was in the log, but can't find readily ), i dun expect it'll ever change
5f2837de44c10d77…44c10d77…2022-12-19 21:35:18 <asciilifeform> phf: right, atm net is small enuff that you'll prolly get'em all back
271b234a5f2837de…804d6cab…2022-12-19 21:35:36 <phf> yeah i have peering with deedbot and dulapbot, but your station dun work ._. you maybe refreshed your key at some point?
9ac5da41271b234a…5f2837de…2022-12-19 21:36:13 <asciilifeform> phf: nope, but suspect firewall misconfig'd, and not yet had time to fix properly
c1423e119ac5da41…271b234a…2022-12-19 21:36:21 <phf> #<STATION (#(100 15 116 69) 1337)/asciilifeform NIL {700A927953}>
16248c78c1423e11…9ac5da41…2022-12-19 21:36:32 <asciilifeform> phf: hence wai asciilifeform has been handing out dulapbot peerings to folx who iirc also in a nat
cf721d1f268ce5bf…16248c78…2022-12-19 21:37:12 asciilifeform found that currently is only able to peer, from desk station, to stations that aint in nat
a81d0ffb1225811f…1225811f…2022-12-20 01:19:06 <billymg> signpost: still on for this week at the same time/place?
d0ee2a4da81d0ffb…0e39313c…2022-12-20 01:13:45 <signpost> yessir, sec and I'll provide meatspace contact info
5e81d4d29dc6f562…9dc6f562…2022-12-20 01:27:02 <billymg> signpost: err, actually, forgot i don't have my key with me. here's my irl info: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=tAoM
635fece05e81d4d2…5e81d4d2…2022-12-20 01:35:23 <billymg> whaack or awt can vouch that it's actually me, both have my irl contact info
fe94c33bd59ac927…bd805bb0…2022-12-20 01:30:15 <signpost> tell them I died as I lived, gorging on assorted smoked meats
3b4a402948ed3911…884fcc23…2022-12-20 01:31:48 <signpost> secret mission, dead drop, intercepted, nothing at all to do with brisket.
3a920ee03b4a4029…3b4a4029…2022-12-20 05:12:01 <phf> huh, tk on mac automatically supports "dark mode"
03c359273a920ee0…3a920ee0…2022-12-20 05:12:38 <phf> first time i switched it on my machine, and pest switched with it
f3d5fef503c35927…f4b3f080…2022-12-20 06:01:02 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform's wx test proggy appears to do this also. may be default for barebones gui proggy on current crapple os
351c1304502b735c…d3459804…2022-12-21 01:03:22 <shinohai> Pest station run far superior on termux, seems to be all caught up!
03640bdd351c1304…502b735c…2022-12-21 01:04:30 <signpost> shinohai: looks like a debian-in-a-box android app?
a0d306c803640bdd…351c1304…2022-12-21 01:08:46 <shinohai> its just a proot helper thingy, i use it to run gentoo shells
3979680ba0d306c8…a0d306c8…2022-12-21 01:11:53 <shinohai> base termux fully capable of running blatta after building py2.7
e606c488a40b7c0c…3979680b…2022-12-21 01:13:15 <shinohai> Pretty neat thing capable of entire xfce desktop even! http://btc.info.gf/uploads/pestnet-termux1.png
e3aa7abfe606c488…f3d5fef5…2022-12-21 17:17:13 <asciilifeform> in other noose: turns out that current ver. of wx ~does~ build with gtk2 (contrary to gentoo sabot^H^H^H^Hmaintainers' disinfo)
e72fa65ce3aa7abf…e3aa7abf…2022-12-21 17:18:10 <asciilifeform> ( and has all kindsa 'drop unneeded knobs' config settings )
9dba0e375b417ced…a40b7c0c…2022-12-22 20:08:12 signpost fiddled with tkinter in python last night a bit too
9c6c5a2d9dba0e37…e72fa65c…2022-12-22 21:48:31 asciilifeform has a very rough wx gui going, and the start of a reasonably compact pestron to go with it in ye olde cpp
2bae0f454af4c4fa…4af4c4fa…2022-12-23 06:55:08 <phf> meanwhile i got rid of gui altogether, until i figure out outstanding protocol questions
9840f5803ed5d851…2e799c33…2022-12-23 16:37:17 <asciilifeform> phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ?
5f100f069840f580…9840f580…2022-12-23 16:38:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019061 << asciilifeform orig. wanted absolutely nuffin to do with guiism , until barfed from irc's append-only semantics and the resulting ugh in protocol
5f10c0655f100f06…2f075c07…2022-12-23 16:40:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 01:56:31 phf[awt]: gui is a lie
652a0b095f10c065…5f10c065…2022-12-23 16:40:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 21:29:00 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: 1 of the reasons 1st thing asciilifeform did when rewriting spec, was to throw out the reorder mechanism -- it not only slows propagation simply to satisfy irc frontends, but creates unholy wtf semantics that will prolly never entirely behave as anyone would expec
5f31b97b050514e1…3ff309eb…2022-12-23 16:39:48 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-06-20 14:35:41 asciilifeform: ... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron.
2063c6581452e7d0…3337747a…2022-12-23 17:45:11 <shinohai> oh hai asciilifeform! I'm still seeing you as hearsay and not in peers list so imma ask to rekey if you have time in a few days
24aa94a22063c658…1452e7d0…2022-12-23 17:48:40 <asciilifeform> shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=or8F
e82e78e024aa94a2…2063c658…2022-12-23 17:54:15 <shinohai> asciilifeform: gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID 0xB4A0455373708B0E < failed
d0458038b9242b41…93b56a55…2022-12-23 17:55:36 <deedbot> http://wot.deedbot.org/260fa57bce677a5c04bf60ba4a75883cc1b1d34c.asc
11f5f111e892f6c7…e892f6c7…2022-12-23 17:57:53 asciilifeform appears to have at least 1 obsolete key for shinohai
72a5411e11f5f111…3a1d6b91…2022-12-23 19:09:56 <signpost> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/legal/russia-international-trade-bitcoin-january << I have a feeling this isn't going to be done in papercoin
fe5491c172a5411e…11f5f111…2022-12-23 19:34:39 <asciilifeform> signpost: lol, and at same time internal ban (iirc already de-facto banned there for some yrs.)
cb1ef7cc72747bf2…72747bf2…2022-12-23 19:35:31 <signpost> just like in china, I'm sure a particular caste has no problems using it.
2de666f672747bf2…fe5491c1…2022-12-23 19:35:36 asciilifeform would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect
3cf12ce2cb1ef7cc…2de666f6…2022-12-23 19:40:41 <asciilifeform> anyone can use 'between consenting adults', rich or poor. but not 'retail' (which from asciilifeform's pov is already the situation in usa, with 'coin tax')
77bd52be3cf12ce2…652a0b09…2022-12-23 19:42:07 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax'
ae441dfc77bd52be…5f31b97b…2022-12-23 19:41:23 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-11 asciilifeform: i.e. is deliberately inefficient, and there is quite deliberately no deterministic method to actually guarantee that you paid 100% of what's Officially req'd
828b732bae441dfc…cb1ef7cc…2022-12-23 19:46:35 <signpost> just got the same replay of two messages that it looks like logs.bitdash.io saw
4cd992530e68389e…828b732b…2022-12-23 20:11:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019081 << have to disagree strongly that moving to settle international trade in BTC is a non-event
efeddd3d4cd99253…77bd52be…2022-12-23 20:12:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 14:36:47 asciilifeform[4]: would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect
0eb2f84195b29691…878d8439…2022-12-23 20:45:40 <lobbes> imo BTC is an ideal currency for sovereigns; the potential to side-step sanctions alone is large. You have to imagine heads-of-state have already been settling some international trade in BTC, though perhaps haven't specifically stated such publicly
3e034fef0eb2f841…faa9e8b9…2022-12-23 21:17:54 <asciilifeform> lobbes: not impossible, but asciilifeform suspects that not -- btc has 'bug' where 'wrong people' and 'wrong places' (from various crowned heads' pov) have most of it
58ad39f33e034fef…3e034fef…2022-12-23 21:18:57 <asciilifeform> ( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro )
f75f044b58ad39f3…58ad39f3…2022-12-23 21:20:27 <asciilifeform> the most interesting 'bug' of course is that x btc represents e.g. y*x usd,rub,etc. and y is effectively a random number
9f15443bf75f044b…f75f044b…2022-12-23 21:20:54 <asciilifeform> which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich
1035e9cb9f15443b…0eb2f841…2022-12-23 23:27:50 <lobbes> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019161 << I think I follow. Too easy since a reich either owns the key(s) to a btc addy or doesn't, versus being able to make a claim to [http://trilema.com/2014/how-many-years-you-got/#selection-83.34-83.68|unmined gold], or whatever gdp fudging / manipulation
87838ffc1035e9cb…ae441dfc…2022-12-23 23:28:00 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 16:18:58 asciilifeform: ( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro )
e61bc7451035e9cb…1035e9cb…2022-12-23 23:28:55 <lobbes> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019163 << yeah the y does seem tied to the movements of whichever mob is hitched to whichever mtgox of the month
4af6a3b3e61bc745…87838ffc…2022-12-23 23:29:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 16:20:54 asciilifeform: which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich
a1f9d1c4e61bc745…e61bc745…2022-12-23 23:31:12 <lobbes> man, I swear I know the [link][legend] notation but somehow do it wrong each time lol
3e993dd7a1f9d1c4…0e68389e…2022-12-23 23:32:43 <shinohai> There that's better. When do we get killfiles ?
d27050c30238b0fb…0238b0fb…2022-12-24 00:12:21 <asciilifeform> lobbes: it's been [link][legend] since phf's orig. logger.
cee341c7d27050c3…d27050c3…2022-12-24 00:12:59 <asciilifeform> shinohai: have some mercy, d00d was at sea for yrs
a05c9f990000000000000000…2022-12-24 00:23:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019062 << just the stuff that i haven't solved in my code. multistation, backlog recovery, new packet insert. that sort of stuff
249b0689a05c9f99…efeddd3d…2022-12-24 00:24:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 11:38:26 asciilifeform[4]: phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ?
0d2b4367a83ed1e9…a05c9f99…2022-12-24 00:23:47 <phf> guism ended up providing pointless distraction, time sink and also made me sad.
577295df0d2b4367…a83ed1e9…2022-12-24 00:24:14 <asciilifeform> looked decent tho, from the screenshits. what was the sad ?
16529f58577295df…0d2b4367…2022-12-24 00:24:31 <phf> i mean after playing with this stuff i came to conclusion that computing has failed :>
34bd96aa07241d37…16529f58…2022-12-24 00:25:57 <phf> tk/tcl over subprocess to create a pretty text output, the whole spitoon aspect of it, the fact that we don't have smart gui libraries, the fact that the libraries that we do are multi-mb c++ monstrocities, etc.
6dd27cb234bd96aa…07241d37…2022-12-24 00:34:58 <asciilifeform> 'smart gui' that actually worx on various os is much closer to 'mars lander' than pestron in scope, sadly
af6203846dd27cb2…34bd96aa…2022-12-24 00:37:38 <phf> i ported my accounting code to genera, just for the fun of it, and while the gui library is not ideal, it's damn convenient. i had similar experience when working with smalltalk/squeak in the past. everything is station operator oriented, and assumes that you're going to write lisp Kb"x , o8sIDt
aa9c6f1eaf620384…af620384…2022-12-24 00:37:38 <phf> or augment other people's lisp to solve your problems, so the process of adding a little bit of gui is made as painless as possible. Kb"x , o8sIDt
e17ce946aa9c6f1e…012dd648…2022-12-24 00:41:07 asciilifeform working on far moar modest 'canhaz portable pestron with xchat-like ui'
72e12d72e17ce946…e17ce946…2022-12-24 00:41:24 <asciilifeform> and yes it's a pile of cpp. but at least loox like will not be a very tall pile.
aacfe18b72e12d72…cc5ef868…2022-12-24 01:03:23 <phf> i also realized i want a vertical integration, but i don't want to g gabriel ladel it out of twigs and string
cc5ef8682926e556…2926e556…2022-12-24 00:39:21 <phf> i'd like to first solve my own immediate problems. although by that measure i can probably just write to lispworks gui, and then not have anyone use my code ever :D
dbb88403aacfe18b…72e12d72…2022-12-24 01:03:46 <asciilifeform> phf: welcome to asciilifeform circa 2007...
94532515dbb88403…aacfe18b…2022-12-24 01:04:22 <phf> pest not as an `app`, but as a subsystem that i can integrate into other things. 'oh you want to send data from machine A to machine B. etc
1438250a4cc7d49e…94532515…2022-12-24 01:06:17 <phf> it's a problem that surfaces every time i start building components.. `oh it'll just be a unix script. oh it's suddenly 1000 lines of python, so now i just want to pull the data out of it for this other script. aaand i've been fucked by unix again`
369d8b538380b285…8380b285…2022-12-24 01:08:16 asciilifeform spent yrs not wanting to bake much of anyffin for precisely this reason
a947506c369d8b53…369d8b53…2022-12-24 01:08:37 <asciilifeform> esp. things that dun comfortably fit in emacs.
2f53cfcca947506c…a947506c…2022-12-24 01:09:34 <asciilifeform> ( see also the summary on asciilifeform's www re subj. )
eb1da7c02f53cfcc…7eba0c3c…2022-12-24 01:14:07 <phf> a certain type of github slav who has 50 projects in QT to solve all kinds of personal problems
b00ed602eb1da7c0…eb1da7c0…2022-12-24 01:14:46 <phf> can't fail by calling out to c++ if all your projects are in c++ to begin with
a8372ca6b00ed602…2f53cfcc…2022-12-24 01:15:45 <asciilifeform> in apropos lulz, shithub apparently no longer lets you search if not logged in
7eae3305a8372ca6…a8372ca6…2022-12-24 01:15:59 <asciilifeform> (evidently they're tightening the screws re scrapers)
a3b09d667eae3305…7eae3305…2022-12-24 01:16:29 <asciilifeform> 'opensores' but 'microshit in fact owns, dontcha fughet it'
2d56cdce41da02fa…41da02fa…2022-12-24 01:18:45 <phf> how was it, hard to make man see truth if his livelihood depends on not seeing it
ee91b6d22d56cdce…a3b09d66…2022-12-24 01:23:39 <asciilifeform> there's a ~bottomless pit of laddel waiting for folx who 'want Right Thing' sadly
5cfde37bee91b6d2…ee91b6d2…2022-12-24 01:25:51 asciilifeform fighting with patently-idiotic shit like this
216eda435cfde37b…41da02fa…2022-12-24 01:26:17 <phf> i don't think laddel is even malicious (or for the matter the two guys that are peddling tmsr stuff, forgot their names), more like midwit attempt at bring oneself closer to divinity. magic charm just like the alien astronauts had!
62cf55abf08b081a…5cfde37b…2022-12-24 01:26:52 <asciilifeform> unsurprising, cuz the lib forcibly 'lowest common denominator', combining idiocies from all common os guiisms
2f07544d234382d2…62cf55ab…2022-12-24 01:34:29 <asciilifeform> 'The men were not shown the thermometer, but that wasn’t necessary since they had to work in any weather. Besides, longtime residents of Kolyma could determine the weather precisely even without a thermometer: if there was frosty fog, that meant the temperature outside was forty degrees below zero; if you exhaled easily
e9fd10d362cf55ab…216eda43…2022-12-24 01:27:31 <phf> -20c here, almost makes up for not going to the motherland this year
4ca565742f07544d…2f07544d…2022-12-24 01:34:31 <asciilifeform> was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.'(tm)(r)(shalamov)
083fd25b4ca56574…4ca56574…2022-12-24 01:35:01 <asciilifeform> ( ...if you exhaled easily but in a rasping fashion, it was fifty degrees below zero; if there was a rasping and it was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.' )
3151fe7a083fd25b…e9fd10d3…2022-12-24 01:37:02 <phf> apropos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gefkk1cO1CE
bbdb486f3151fe7a…3151fe7a…2022-12-24 01:38:59 <phf> i've been walking around in my underwear all day, , directing traffic, because even appalachians are phased. plenty of opportunity for `you merely adopted the cold, i was born in it, molded by it` etc
e2d28f2fb97f5dd9…b97f5dd9…2022-12-24 01:39:48 <signpost> how can you say this and not post video, I ask.
6b44f49a5642bbbc…bbdb486f…2022-12-24 01:51:35 <phf> signpost,i have no idea, nobody thought about it until you asked. girl is used oto it at this point
ca5f1e3f6b44f49a…e2d28f2f…2022-12-24 01:52:53 <signpost> you're just running around town in your skivvies in the cold (snow?) up there?
f70a2a50ca5f1e3f…ca5f1e3f…2022-12-24 01:53:55 <signpost> meanwhile I'm recalibrating my ick tolerance. got my bellybutton puked in the other day.
21fac636f70a2a50…6b44f49a…2022-12-24 01:59:34 <phf> it's a joke that goes well with the locals yes :) i cleaned the drive way in speedos and wool hat and sun glasses, went to hang out at coffee shop in shorts t-shirt and flipflops. i don't know about running around in speedos though, might be a bit too much for the god fearing crowd
eb7f3cc6f492f30f…f492f30f…2022-12-24 02:01:13 <phf> i'm thinking i'm going to do a plunge in the lake near the horses tomorrow
2076027deb7f3cc6…f70a2a50…2022-12-24 02:02:12 <signpost> many years ago when I spent some time living on a ranch in western PA, it was entertaining to race cousins from the house to frozen lake and back in our swimsuits or underwear.
1dade2e02076027d…2076027d…2022-12-24 02:02:20 <signpost> ofc slowest one got locked out until a parent intervened
15ac01783bbde6f7…3bbde6f7…2022-12-24 02:11:33 <phf> despite the fact that the democrats are trying to destroy it!
d50bfdee656cdf04…656cdf04…2022-12-24 02:13:14 <signpost> in unrelated news, got my little fountain code thinger to piss a 50mb flac file over UDP to itself earlier.
0b5d9f57d50bfdee…d50bfdee…2022-12-24 02:13:48 <signpost> seeing if I can package up the python version into a little command line thinger that transfers a file arg to ip:port
93844a410b5d9f57…0b5d9f57…2022-12-24 02:14:40 <signpost> better to have a toy version at which to point and grunt for a while before trying to shoehorn into pest.
4eddbf50f9499273…051801dc…2022-12-24 02:17:02 <phf> random protocol question, in broadcast for each counterparty station i should be making a `new` packet, essentially so that nonce gets refreshed?
4af975444eddbf50…f9499273…2022-12-24 02:18:01 <asciilifeform> phf: errytime you encrypt, generate nonce
c6adba9f4af97544…4af97544…2022-12-24 02:18:28 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, it isn't as if you can simply forward whole packet, given that its original was keyed to you )
7e04305f8fde0c83…c6adba9f…2022-12-24 02:19:33 <asciilifeform> shinohai: btw still seeing you as hearsay
ea496e4d7e04305f…7e04305f…2022-12-24 02:19:50 <asciilifeform> shinohai: ( and last packet in AT -- 31 july, lol )
519b9d364be351c6…25e5bfa5…2022-12-24 02:27:28 <shinohai> !!v 2AAB7D5F24E8FD2B02EFDB3C879BCE1FA8EF4B26DB4A63A34EB21C7ECCB403E2
01e986230b223e93…519b9d36…2022-12-24 02:28:15 <shinohai> tyvm signpost for the deedbot updates, above long overdue ^
85a17dca519b9d36…d0458038…2022-12-24 02:27:30 <deedbot> shinohai rated unpx 1 << https://unpx.net/d4/
86e37b8585a17dca…cdc9942a…2022-12-24 02:28:16 <phf> asciilifeform, i presumably have a working key with you, and i'm also not getting a direct connection
2c558b581b35e450…0b223e93…2022-12-24 02:29:46 asciilifeform recently baked a new pfsense box, wonders if nat nao 'symmetric' by default
2890f2a42c558b58…1b35e450…2022-12-24 02:31:21 <signpost> also unfucked the css on wot.deedbot.org in re: graph display
e6afe3a42890f2a4…2890f2a4…2022-12-24 02:32:19 <signpost> need to change the <h4> on the homepage to read "of This One Guy in Texas"
474cedfbe6afe3a4…86e37b85…2022-12-24 02:36:30 <phf> there used to be an old curmudgeon, i think his blog was called `fred on everything`, fred himself immigrated to mexico, married a latina and was writing proto-based articles. there's a foto of him on the blog with a cigar and a handgun. being a texas guy you need one of those photos also
596dc296e6afe3a4…01e98623…2022-12-24 02:36:33 <shinohai> I feel like my client should play the "Dallas" theme song whenever a msg from signpost arrives.
9e5f76ab596dc296…2c558b58…2022-12-24 02:37:12 <asciilifeform> phf: i have his b00k, 'brass pole in bangkok'
83f3afd90891991f…da2ac550…2022-12-24 02:38:51 <phf> asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed
ef43c7d30891991f…596dc296…2022-12-24 02:38:53 <shinohai> i thought i was doxxed as a boomer long ago.
d13ecae783f3afd9…e6afe3a4…2022-12-24 02:38:55 <signpost> guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time.
d5aa95ccd13ecae7…83f3afd9…2022-12-24 02:40:26 <phf> shinohai, i grew up watching dallas, because it was second huge tv show to come to post-soviet russia. the first one was `simplemente maria`
806ac0d645a3dee8…d5aa95cc…2022-12-24 02:43:21 <phf> signpost, https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.617572705.1754/pp,840x830-pad,1000x1000,f8f8f8.u2.jpg
78364ecf45a3dee8…45a3dee8…2022-12-24 02:43:21 <signpost> we did do some Walker Texas Ranger growing up tho.
c683184745822cfd…45822cfd…2022-12-24 02:44:58 <signpost> shinohai: waitaminute, at least tell me you're a mexican boomer or something
b780402ec6831847…806ac0d6…2022-12-24 02:45:19 <phf> in my mind david carradine's kung fu is the quintessential texas show. i don't know why. that and of course king of the hill, the bust syndicated tv cartoon
62e493ba04f0a067…b780402e…2022-12-24 02:47:15 <phf> mike judge is a king of character study. groening, stone&parker are hacks iin comparison
0092bd2d4a0fa77d…0891991f…2022-12-24 03:07:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019199 << lafond was the bmor d00d. found via BingoBoingo. bought coupla of his b00kz also, but these turned out to be msword-mutilated pasta from his www. disappoint.
074403cf0092bd2d…249b0689…2022-12-24 03:08:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:01 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed
563c787b074403cf…0092bd2d…2022-12-24 03:09:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019201 << over9000 folx on the net seem to fughet allabout 'this is my seekrit $weapon, unregistered with reich' when succumbing to photonarcissism and 'here's me an' my MG' on arsebook etc
16b79a0c563c787b…074403cf…2022-12-24 03:10:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:04 signpost: guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time.
d7d1798e16b79a0c…563c787b…2022-12-24 03:11:06 <asciilifeform> ( same folx also e.g. 'here's me an' my pile of au bars' etc. lol )
bb46002fd7d1798e…d7d1798e…2022-12-24 03:16:25 <asciilifeform> naodays 'any idjit can paperb00k' but sadly not 'erryidjit knows tex' so result is massive pile of piss-poorly formatted maculature (and often enuff by quasiliterates), and sits in catalogues (e.g. lulazon's) right next to 'actual' b00kz
2644ca5a981fbfaa…4a0fa77d…2022-12-24 03:18:17 <phf> i've read my fair share of these writers, in blog form, e.g. your favorite orlol, but never was compelled to read them in book form. i figured it's unedited book spew self published using msword. why would one…
25af38c4a083ea78…a083ea78…2022-12-24 03:19:57 <asciilifeform> (orlol fwiw has been imho 100% snoar for many yrs)
c19f1dc425af38c4…25af38c4…2022-12-24 03:21:46 <asciilifeform> folx who do not themselves luvv deadtree, imho oughta refrain. ( asciilifeform for instance sweated over formatting of erry pg of new spec, and still aint done, partly for this reason )
8b3b81fec19f1dc4…c19f1dc4…2022-12-24 03:22:21 <asciilifeform> who the fuck wants to read straight pasta. people own printers, can print pasta themselves if they want.
f793b23f8b3b81fe…2644ca5a…2022-12-24 03:25:48 <phf> maybe i can make some MONEY with this BLOGGING business!
7df0add9f793b23f…04f0a067…2022-12-24 07:51:50 <signpost> jeez there goes another of my neighbors in a stretcher apparently, second in a few months.
a3373633db09ba73…8b3b81fe…2022-12-24 17:33:52 asciilifeform has 0 excitement re covid anymoar, had at least 4x, and would rather have it than typical flu any day of week
60dae9a1a3373633…f5abc282…2022-12-24 17:45:55 <signpost> these two folks were both older. not terribly surprising.
5974bc59feaf9db9…feaf9db9…2022-12-24 17:48:52 <signpost> re: vax, had two modernas, didn't have a problem. but not getting any more.
3b80a78c7ced529b…5974bc59…2022-12-24 18:36:26 <signpost> thank you for what you're doing for Our Democracy.
9810b67345d0e776…a3373633…2022-12-25 00:32:57 <asciilifeform> in other noose : 1st draft of pseudocode for 'filter' mechanism for pest. O(1) insertion & lookup. may contain mistakes, comments invited.
ebe674959810b673…9810b673…2022-12-25 00:33:42 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's notion is that the pictured mechanism is faster than an ordered heap (where O(log n) insert/lookup)
610661a9ebe67495…ebe67495…2022-12-25 00:34:18 <asciilifeform> ^ signpost, phf, awt , jonsykkel , et al ^
d0492731610661a9…610661a9…2022-12-25 00:35:52 <asciilifeform> 'filter', ftr, is described in sect 5.3.1 of 0xfa pre-draft.
4c63534ab6d7edf7…b6d7edf7…2022-12-25 15:31:07 <phf> cookies and spiked eggnog hangovers are the worst, i don't know how santa does it
81f9040d4c63534a…38edf9c8…2022-12-25 15:46:44 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform did hard time in cpp mines, long ago. but mostly fughot the horrors.
e8d376a8e9e7c034…81f9040d…2022-12-25 15:48:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019254 << a cpp11ism
24a800aae8d376a8…16b79a0c…2022-12-25 15:49:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 05:53:54 jonsykkel: asciilifeform wat exactly is this unordred_set with o(1) insert/delete?
44efe23424a800aa…e8d376a8…2022-12-25 15:49:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019255 << wrote the actual proggy with cheapo linked lists rather than expandable arrays
c4e3562444efe234…24a800aa…2022-12-25 15:50:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 05:54:23 jonsykkel: either way i think there is simpler way to do wihtout 1800 magic vector structures
6e8dfcdac4e35624…44efe234…2022-12-25 15:51:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019256 << this was the 1st algo asciilifeform considered, and rejected -- it often lets entries sit far longer than they gotta, and isn't much less expensive than asciilifeform's proposed algo afaik
c7c112ec6e8dfcda…c4e35624…2022-12-25 15:52:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 05:54:26 jonsykkel: where u just decide on max packet rate and determine static bufer sizes based on that
a83853f3c7c112ec…6e8dfcda…2022-12-25 15:51:41 <asciilifeform> ( likely -- substantially ~moar~ expensive, on acct of overripe entries )
52741c8a40e9f455…40e9f455…2022-12-25 15:55:31 <asciilifeform> ( still not sure how jonsykkel's could possibly win anyffin, other than saving coupla kB of mem, in total, from having 1 linked list rather than 1800 )
8de2420252741c8a…52741c8a…2022-12-25 15:58:27 <asciilifeform> per spec, ftr, 'A station’s Filter is a data structure which retains a hash of every valid incoming and originated Message, until such a time that if a duplicate of that Message were received, it would be deemed stale.'
0bf6fec4c255e6eb…c255e6eb…2022-12-25 16:01:58 <asciilifeform> observe that filter stores hashes of all msgs, not only chained; and emitted as well as received. letting'em all sit for potentially 15 extra min. is mega-bloat, esp. after we have signpost's luby
4ad89dd00bf6fec4…0bf6fec4…2022-12-25 17:37:56 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel et al : runnable example of asciilifeform's filter . and somewhat braindead demo coad for same.
5c5ea8734ad89dd0…4ad89dd0…2022-12-25 17:40:01 <asciilifeform> the 1 boojum asciilifeform can presently think of is that it aint threadsafe (needs lock, given as tick() runs async.)
85cccac35c5ea873…5c5ea873…2022-12-25 17:44:41 <asciilifeform> ( obviously missing is the timer per se, and check for ticks <= maxTicks; but imho these belong in the packet receiver )
1ce4d52985cccac3…85cccac3…2022-12-25 17:45:35 <asciilifeform> ditto re the check whether already contains $item.
bbea4c4f1ce4d529…1ce4d529…2022-12-25 17:47:42 asciilifeform starts to think that in the process of posting this, reduced it to a trivial snoar. apologies to those who bored to tears.
e8dd70ae84bcda19…4c63534a…2022-12-25 17:56:26 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019348 << but on the other hand we don't want to discourage you writing experimental code, because unlike athena born as she was from the forehead of her father, distributed code has too much emergent behavior to attempt to reason it from first principles
f13c6094e8dd70ae…3eb59a62…2022-12-25 17:56:45 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:47:42 asciilifeform: starts to think that in the process of posting this, reduced it to a trivial snoar. apologies to those who bored to tears.
1b287febf13c6094…84bcda19…2022-12-25 17:57:41 <asciilifeform> phf: per asciilifeform's pov, when writing field-expedient sadlang proggy, best one can do is to keep it small & correct, so to 1day rewrite
c593a7fe1b287feb…1b287feb…2022-12-25 17:58:03 <asciilifeform> that being said, aint aboutta post erry cpp fart, except as to discuss algos
8b31a510c593a7fe…e8dd70ae…2022-12-25 17:59:59 <phf> fwiw the code can be implemented as is in pest.lisp, because iit's intentionally not threaded and event based, including the 1s tick `periodic` funcion that does useful work
4742c22e8b31a510…c593a7fe…2022-12-25 18:01:21 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform's current attempt is forcibly threaded (on acct of the gui), and so decided that may as well properly bring out blackpacket eating to worker thrds, the redpacket processor -- 'consumer', etc
9f612d824742c22e…4742c22e…2022-12-25 18:01:49 <asciilifeform> ( fwiw line-rate packet-eatin' reqs max parallelization )
beffa3859f612d82…9f612d82…2022-12-25 18:05:43 asciilifeform currently gnashing teeth re guiism idjicies -- e.g. on crapple, text entry box never gets default focus when displayed, no matter how baked, and nobody anywhere seems to know why
f16e4332beffa385…beffa385…2022-12-25 18:07:30 asciilifeform has a rather 'half gui', where there's a widget that can display msgs in arbitrary order, and anuther 'tab' that displays console 'shell' through which 'peer x', 'key x key', etc. which actually control the proggy
41e67df3f16e4332…8b31a510…2022-12-25 18:15:03 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019359 << community consensus™ waivers on this point. i'm of twisted python school, and also did my time in realtime bidding in java saltmines where fixed ns to respond requirements were achieved exclusively with kevens on fds non-p (rqĜW-GXW;'
6240899e41e67df3…41e67df3…2022-12-25 18:15:03 <phf> arallel code, so i'm suspicious of max parallelization argument. though some modern™ approaches which have awareness of thread switching granularity and cache effects and modern™ architectures all rolled into one allegedly can outperform (rqĜW-GXW;'
2e9350be41e67df3…f13c6094…2022-12-25 18:15:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 13:01:49 asciilifeform: ( fwiw line-rate packet-eatin' reqs max parallelization )
81b551126240899e…f16e4332…2022-12-25 18:21:39 <asciilifeform> phf: feel free to check asciilifeform's napkin calculations re subj
3d56e31a81b55112…c7c112ec…2022-12-25 18:22:49 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: i expect you'd have at least 8cores on reasonable box, which gives you ~105840 ticks to process a packet, imho entirely doable.
cc1ad8bc3d56e31a…81b55112…2022-12-25 18:22:09 <asciilifeform> seems clear that gb/s pestronics aint happening on 1 cpu core, no matter what kinda cpu.
a92cdf5dcc1ad8bc…cc1ad8bc…2022-12-25 18:23:14 <asciilifeform> eating blackpackets in parallel dun require anyffin 'modern' in re threading; is 'embarrasingly parallel'(tm)(r)(cray) sorta job
2a2312e0a92cdf5d…a92cdf5d…2022-12-25 18:24:49 <asciilifeform> ( and also recall that the bigger the wot, the linearly moar work is to verify a blackpacket )
8bf7ce280000000000000000…2022-12-26 02:43:22 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019365 << that's five hits of grateful dead grade acid level of architectural space man calculations. they look correct, and possible provide reasonable reference limits on things, but considering that you're posting sample code tha cU3Qreg6',
0960274b8bf7ce28…8bf7ce28…2022-12-26 02:43:49 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-25#1019365 << that's five hits of grateful dead grade acid level of architectural space man calculations. they look correct, and possible provide reasonable reference limits on things, but considering that you're posting sample code that TILK])\ -K]1m
b54f2c2d8bf7ce28…dfa3fa3f…2022-12-26 02:50:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 13:21:39 asciilifeform: phf: feel free to check asciilifeform's napkin calculations re subj
cd17c6a30960274b…b54f2c2d…2022-12-26 02:51:05 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 13:21:39 asciilifeform: phf: feel free to check asciilifeform's napkin calculations re subj
efc499b5b54f2c2d…4439a462…2022-12-26 02:51:25 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: i expect you'd have at least 8cores on reasonable box, which gives you ~105840 ticks to process a packet, imho entirely doable.
172212e6cd17c6a3…efc499b5…2022-12-26 02:52:37 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: i expect you'd have at least 8cores on reasonable box, which gives you ~105840 ticks to process a packet, imho entirely doable.
36eb06c8172212e6…e870e836…2022-12-26 02:52:12 <asciilifeform> oh hm phf is that a duped msg or local station oops ?
dfa524e136eb06c8…36eb06c8…2022-12-26 02:53:11 <phf> and the other question is, where's the rest of it?
1dd074cfdfa524e1…36eb06c8…2022-12-26 02:53:31 <asciilifeform> phf: seeing same item on desk as visible in billymg's logger
8092d4d41dd074cf…dfa524e1…2022-12-26 02:54:42 <phf> ah yeah i see it on billymg's logger also. not on nosuchlabs. maybe eventually?
6887875c8092d4d4…1dd074cf…2022-12-26 02:55:39 <asciilifeform> phf: re the visible paragraph -- afaik 'max packets/sec can enter via a gb/s nic?' is hard bound; but the rest of thread is obv. dep. on internals of filter
52e059476887875c…172212e6…2022-12-26 02:56:54 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-23 asciilifeform: PeterL: let's assume ethernet. so, in bytes, let's calculate 1 packet's mass: 5 (gap) + 4 (preamble) + 14 (eth header) + 20 (ipv4 hdr) + 8 (udp header) + 496 (pest) + 4 (ethernet crc) == 551
572b155652e05947…6887875c…2022-12-26 02:56:18 <asciilifeform> (i.e. obv. nobody -- or certainly not asciilifeform -- knows how much the cppistic heap weighs when stuffed fulla x hashes, then y deleted, etc )
d950aa94572b1556…572b1556…2022-12-26 02:56:57 <asciilifeform> prolly depends on phase of moon, whether jupiter aligned with mars, gcc version, etc. rubbish.
d8929a24d950aa94…d950aa94…2022-12-26 02:57:28 <asciilifeform> the same, unfortunately, is true of ada's equiv. to this datastructure
7e185fe8d8929a24…8092d4d4…2022-12-26 02:58:09 <phf> `we wrote own equivalents of following c++ std libs to support necessary hard guarantees` etc.
b49332b2d8929a24…d8929a24…2022-12-26 02:58:09 <asciilifeform> 'hash maps' aint intended, apparently, for people who truly giveafuck re precise # of bytes occupies. (these -- write own structure, and not resort 'like lamer' to what comes with compiler)
70cf830eed2d5520…ed2d5520…2022-12-26 02:58:53 <asciilifeform> so phf 100% correct, no hard bounds avail. nor likely to be until thing is reimplemented 'ffa-style'
9e96453870cf830e…70cf830e…2022-12-26 02:59:34 asciilifeform skeptical even re bounds of a commonlisp variant, if there's any consing happening at all
d5d23e699e964538…9e964538…2022-12-26 03:01:23 asciilifeform recalls in '15 when went on a lengthy chase re 'why trb hashmap grows unboundedly'
b1a20f83d5d23e69…7e185fe8…2022-12-26 03:02:50 <phf> common lisp solution is to refine the algo from naive and elegant to tight an heavily annotated, but mostly give up somewhere half way in once you discover that everyone still mostly uses the protocol to send text messages at 1message/minute to a group of 10 friends. end up outperf XؙUn&iw4R r $,
30440d6ab1a20f83…b1a20f83…2022-12-26 03:02:50 <phf> orming all competitors at this particular task. XؙUn&iw4R r $,
8237cbb530440d6a…d5d23e69…2022-12-26 03:04:02 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's concern is when 1 or more of the 10 start shooting multi-GB luby pissstreams to 1 anuther
1f7c33028237cbb5…8237cbb5…2022-12-26 03:05:20 <asciilifeform> btw revisiting cppistic hashmaps -- they're retarded in moar ways than 1 (tho in some cases theoretically fixable). for instance, defaults to actually hashing (unsurprise) the inputs, even when, as in our case, is already a fixed-length hash
89ced0df1f7c3302…30440d6a…2022-12-26 03:05:25 <phf> crashing the one canonical python implementation and bring the whole network down
955d7df089ced0df…1f7c3302…2022-12-26 03:05:40 <asciilifeform> ( theoretically overridable w/out resorting to compiler-proprietary gnarl. but not tried yet )
5f9db88d955d7df0…955d7df0…2022-12-26 03:05:59 <asciilifeform> phf: atm even that 'send erryone a % command to run' lolbug still standing
3fbb38cf5f9db88d…89ced0df…2022-12-26 03:09:48 <phf> i'd probably put theoretical future luby code into a separate conditional branch, have totally special caching etc. strategy for the messages. at which point the problem of black->red as fast as possible becomes most important, and there's plenty of work even there. maybe ffi to so QP ? HBFRlXʋF;
f69bbf1c3fbb38cf…3fbb38cf…2022-12-26 03:09:48 <phf> me c lib, maybe write an avx vectorized version, etc. QP ? HBFRlXʋF;
fcf1f084f69bbf1c…5f9db88d…2022-12-26 03:10:19 <asciilifeform> asmistic hmac384 would be an obvious win imho
cab76c20f69bbf1c…2c0ac245…2022-12-26 03:12:32 <asciilifeform> ( aand even half of fpga serpent lol )
f6fff199cab76c20…cab76c20…2022-12-26 03:17:41 <asciilifeform> for thread-completeness, there's of course the obvious mega-cheat where one actually looks at the ip from which got the packet, and try the last-good key 1st, rather than rando-rotating through wot. but asciilifeform in the past explained wai 'is cheat', and 'forbidden in spec'
2c0ac2450b3ae712…0b3ae712…2022-12-26 03:10:57 asciilifeform has a half-written x64 serpent sitting around for yrs
7f568433f6fff199…f6fff199…2022-12-26 03:18:00 <asciilifeform> ( it blows away ability to compute worst-case performance, i.e. under flood of martians )
9134d53a7f568433…7f568433…2022-12-26 03:19:47 <asciilifeform> ( as well as making it easier for third party to distinguish station processing a martian from where processes a valid packet, via time sidechannel )
e2e31fd29134d53a…9134d53a…2022-12-26 03:21:04 <asciilifeform> and ftr, the other thing -- pest is intended to be usable with radio, where no such thing as 'origin ip'.
66060353e2e31fd2…e2e31fd2…2022-12-26 03:21:18 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. errybody transmits to errybody )
b8987cd566060353…66060353…2022-12-26 03:21:46 <asciilifeform> this is atm 'bridge too far', but 'can't throw a word out of a song'(tm)
c8d271afb8987cd5…b8987cd5…2022-12-26 03:23:53 <asciilifeform> the radio not yet built, and who knows if/when. but wainot simulate the computational pain ~nao~, so not find a surprise later, 'we've the radio, but no one has fast enuff cpu to actually use it'
3287da78c8d271af…c8d271af…2022-12-26 03:24:54 asciilifeform not eager to preside over a repeat of his earlier moronic 'surprise' where 'no pc is fast enuff to 4096-bit rsa with arbitrary exponents at gb/s linerate'
f04fd6273287da78…3287da78…2022-12-26 06:17:35 asciilifeform 'enjoying' the wunderful world of 'write one-writer-many-readers mutex from thin air'
c734b2e3f04fd627…f04fd627…2022-12-26 06:18:10 <asciilifeform> ( cpp14 included one, but 11 -- not. and sane gcc is perma-fossilized on 11... )
4796bf01c734b2e3…c734b2e3…2022-12-26 06:19:39 asciilifeform thinks 'maybe cribbable from 14's stdlib?'
9448ba324796bf01…4796bf01…2022-12-26 06:20:00 <asciilifeform> prolly not portably tho, likely soup of x64 asm.
71f1c9419448ba32…3ed35b9f…2022-12-26 15:18:34 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-25#1019414 << If you want a patch I can produce it.
678393e971f1c941…52e05947…2022-12-26 15:20:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 22:07:13 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: phf: atm even that 'send erryone a % command to run' lolbug still standing
9fbabebd678393e9…9448ba32…2022-12-26 15:53:17 <asciilifeform> awt: would be great, if you've the cycles, ty
1e80d8bd9fbabebd…9fbabebd…2022-12-26 21:52:47 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-26#1019498 << `he now has two problems`
e9adc2a11e80d8bd…cd17c6a3…2022-12-26 21:53:07 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-26 01:19:39 asciilifeform: thinks 'maybe cribbable from 14's stdlib?'
cd242561e9adc2a1…9fbabebd…2022-12-26 22:38:57 <asciilifeform> phf: went and rtfm'd, and is even worse than at 1st thought ( found wai committee did not include in -11. r-w locks apparently weigh enuff so as to make spinlocking look good in comparison..)
fb7ab6aecd242561…cd242561…2022-12-26 22:39:59 asciilifeform for many many yrs dodged the draft of having to giveashit about locks, semaphores, etc. and nao having to reload into head
7b3163cdfb7ab6ae…fb7ab6ae…2022-12-26 22:43:14 <asciilifeform> orthogonally -- asciilifeform suspects that his algo from earlier is actually braindamaged. tick() oughtn't be called at 1hz by a thread, oughta be triggered intelligently on a write if the latter happened 1s <= t <= maxticks, per timer, after last write;
a4cd21d87b3163cd…7b3163cd…2022-12-26 22:43:51 <asciilifeform> and then purge by tick() floor(t) times.
92bb737ab8997321…b8997321…2022-12-26 22:45:09 <asciilifeform> still not gives parallelistic lookup tho. for that, sumthing like rw lock not escapable afaik.
609ad9be92bb737a…1e80d8bd…2022-12-26 22:48:58 <phf> tick is essentially gc phase, if you do `smart trigger` you end up with hidden and random `gc phase`. milage may vary
67012bb7e69cb10f…e69cb10f…2022-12-26 23:56:34 asciilifeform leaning in direction of mechanical simplicity, 'optimize laters'
9556b03067012bb7…71f1c941…2022-12-27 14:03:57 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-05#1013925 << afaict this hypothesis was incorrect. % commands are only processed from the operator.
c33724059556b030…678393e9…2022-12-27 14:05:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-05 16:25:36 asciilifeform[5]: looking in awt's client.py, saw 'notice_and_privmsg_handler()', where in fact looks for pest cmds in... privmsg's from ~both~ directions?! wai?!~!
b581e63ec3372405…9556b030…2022-12-27 14:06:09 <awt> My current understanding is that the bug jonsykkel successfully exploited was that blatta doesn't escape incoming messages for irc commands.
ce291f064bf16d4b…848b5676…2022-12-30 20:44:35 asciilifeform admits that he dunget the ref (aside from possibly the '21 episode where musk&co carried out the latest 'lift exchrate in a plane, then drop it out' ..?)
a581b2d5795409c5…a7193b55…2022-12-30 21:09:21 <phf> i've added multibroadcast, so now my packets are near-realtime. on the other i will probably no longer gain any new insight into udp reliability
cd0efc56a581b2d5…a581b2d5…2022-12-30 21:11:07 <phf> i no longer need to rage over my packets occasionally getting stuck in awt's nursery for 15 minutes
222bfd7459d97b9a…cd0efc56…2022-12-30 21:27:35 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-10-30#1014626 << is this your latest lisp source/test combo? also is there a third file, where it's an interface poc. ii'll tease it out from tests, but…
8dba862b222bfd74…d2696c4d…2022-12-30 21:28:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-30 03:07:03 signpost: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=kAql << and tests
5e7bc3768dba862b…222bfd74…2022-12-30 23:06:35 <phf> and to further clarify, it's an implementation of `Luby, M. (n.d.). LT codes. The 43rd Annual IEEE Symposium on Foundations of Computer Science, 2002.` without any further extensions?
eb7e03565e7bc376…3d6fbf32…2022-12-31 00:42:00 <signpost> nah, it's not luby's erasure code. it's the one in the paper I link in this post
a5a66635eb7e0356…eb7e0356…2022-12-31 00:42:40 <signpost> I've updated the python one quite a bit past where the lisp one currently is. will be posting a subsequent vpatch shortly, which implements file transfer over udp socket, rather than just a toy impl of the encoding/decoding
47f21e80a5a66635…a5a66635…2022-12-31 00:45:19 <signpost> the lisp one's a toy encoder/decoder atop bit-vectors without any send/receive yet, but expresses the algorithm correctly.
674abfb847f21e80…47f21e80…2022-12-31 00:47:21 <signpost> also would benefit from multiple encode/decode threads. there's zero coordination needed in the encoder to parallelize. in python I'm just calling fork() to do it, since what state is shared is read-only (and decisions on which message blocks to use as inputs to produce a check block are pseudorandom).
84855b0d674abfb8…674abfb8…2022-12-31 00:51:17 <signpost> parallelizing the decoder will be slightly more work, since there's shared mutable state there between workers.
ffe1785984855b0d…84855b0d…2022-12-31 00:51:42 <signpost> can't recall if I had sbcl's atomics in that WIP lisp paste already, but figured these will be useful for that.
479b68b0ffe17859…ffe17859…2022-12-31 00:53:16 <signpost> anyway paper's pretty straightforward, happy to answer any questions about the draft implementations.
a935226be0db9b3e…479b68b0…2022-12-31 00:54:53 <signpost> iirc that had worse complexity than "online codes".
37bfbf46778e5504…a935226b…2022-12-31 00:57:39 <signpost> "This paper is written in terms of a new algorithm called on-line codes [7]. Luby has recently published an algorithm called LTcodes, which is similar to on-line codes, but suffers from O(n lo
7968459937bfbf46…37bfbf46…2022-12-31 00:57:41 <signpost> g n) running time, as compared to linear time for on-line codes
3096a583216b9488…216b9488…2022-12-31 00:57:48 <signpost> from https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/~petar/papers/maymounkov-bigdown.pdf
0561d957144d1ff8…ac39b1ca…2022-12-31 00:58:52 <signpost> yw, the "bigdown" paper is what excited me about this algo most.
2cdd7cab0561d957…0561d957…2022-12-31 00:59:37 <signpost> intersting not just for "decentralized torrent" but also "achieve wide distribution of this byte-array under heavy ddos"
5e8b7a172cdd7cab…2cdd7cab…2022-12-31 01:00:19 <signpost> or jammed radio. oughta work for extremely lossy channels as well as marginally lossy, just with lower (but predictable) bandwidth
cfb35f095e8b7a17…5e8b7a17…2022-12-31 01:01:35 <signpost> or asciilifeform's "noise-floor" radio of old threads.
8d43ffc0cfb35f09…144d1ff8…2022-12-31 01:02:02 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-30#1020024 << are you packing your blocks in pest-like packets?
e15b8d258d43ffc0…c51d9af4…2022-12-31 01:02:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 19:42:59 signpost[asciilifeform]: I've updated the python one quite a bit past where the lisp one currently is. will be posting a subsequent vpatch shortly, which implements file transfer over udp socket, rather than just a toy impl of the encoding/decoding
d3270c7ae15b8d25…1f358cad…2022-12-31 01:05:50 <signpost> haven't included any of the pest protocol details here. thought is this oc-packet rides inside a kind of direct message.
44a5572bd3270c7a…cffe5932…2022-12-31 01:07:04 <phf> right, i guess if you're hacking it into an existing implementation, you just need to provide 428 bytes of message, and e.g. blatta will take care of container
cffe59321f358cad…8d43ffc0…2022-12-31 01:03:36 <phf> with the common prelude? nonce, bounces, version, command, black encoded?
d999ff0344a5572b…d3270c7a…2022-12-31 01:08:25 <signpost> yup, that was the thought. next step get it welded into blatta and be able to request hash-identified payload from my peers, have them confirm they have it, then request an oc-stream of particular parameters that I supply (which control the fault-tolerance and difficulty of encode/decode)
8dc6280f157d0c63…157d0c63…2022-12-31 01:11:25 <signpost> one other thing to mention is that I can learn about the lossiness between myself and my peers by the delta between what I asked for and what I ended up needing from them, in terms of packet count
ac119bc98dc6280f…8dc6280f…2022-12-31 01:11:49 <signpost> got more than needed, channels less lossy than you thought, can adjust down. got less, more.
de40d27dac119bc9…44a5572b…2022-12-31 01:11:50 <phf> you could just slice it into blatta to send an infinite stream of blocks of some easter egg payload to all your peers at a low frequency, give it a random command id.
0e8dd530de40d27d…de40d27d…2022-12-31 01:13:07 <phf> i assume online codes share similar properties to luby, you can generate infinite numbers of blocks to do a constant broadcast
4b808c390e8dd530…0e8dd530…2022-12-31 01:15:55 <phf> an independent reconstruction of easter egg payload will be a poc
147275694b808c39…4b808c39…2022-12-31 01:17:36 <phf> reason is that i'm thinking the bureaucracy around http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-30#1019983 3 might put a needless delay on experimentation
0cccffd214727569…8dba862b…2022-12-31 01:19:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 20:09:35 signpost: yup, that was the thought. next step get it welded into blatta and be able to request hash-identified payload from my peers, have them confirm they have it, then request an oc-stream of particular parameters that I supply (which control the fault-tolerance and difficulty of encode/de
54c9bdf50cccffd2…ac119bc9…2022-12-31 01:24:27 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-30#1019989 << yep, that was the justification they gave for the terrible name for the algo, that it's capable of "online" encoding ad infinitum
2804f72d54c9bdf5…0cccffd2…2022-12-31 01:25:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 20:14:19 phf[deedbot|awt]: i assume online codes share similar properties to luby, you can generate infinite numbers of blocks to do a constant broadcast
e383a8412804f72d…54c9bdf5…2022-12-31 01:24:44 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-30#1019988 << that's fun. yeah, will get this going.
06dd5a66e383a841…2804f72d…2022-12-31 01:25:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 20:13:00 phf[awt]: you could just slice it into blatta to send an infinite stream of blocks of some easter egg payload to all your peers at a low frequency, give it a random command id.
8cf50f1f06dd5a66…14727569…2022-12-31 03:32:31 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/luby-success.png successful decode of the second coming by yeats
7a379294b4e2fab9…6cd4b78e…2022-12-31 22:11:30 <awt> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=vO67 << Patch to fix handling of multiline messages if anyone wants to review before I sign and release.
10076d1c7a379294…7a379294…2022-12-31 22:12:06 <awt> Currently running the patch if anyone wants to try and change my topic.
9327773310076d1c…10076d1c…2022-12-31 22:40:19 <awt> Bleh looks like wxpython is difficult to build for python 2.x.
ea0b32e6cd332a1b…cd332a1b…2023-01-01 21:36:16 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-30#1019998 << w/e sbcl uses by default for seeded randomness via sb-ext:seed-random-state, though asciilifeform recommended xorshift because cheap to reseed, which happens very often in encode/decode
fc86d08fea0b32e6…06dd5a66…2023-01-01 21:37:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 23:49:44 phf[awt|deedbot]: signpost, what's the prng you ended up using?
48123465fc86d08f…ea0b32e6…2023-01-01 21:37:59 <signpost> will probably start using xorshift on the python side too if it proves worthwhile. currently w/e default, have tried several which were all about the same.
7eede939d0de8e41…d0de8e41…2023-01-01 22:17:23 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-01#1020083 << yeah, i ran into this issue with the luby prototype. cmucl uses XOROSHIRO, sbcl MT19937, python also uses mersenne twister, but whether it corresponds to sbcl's mt remains to be seen
bcf14a117eede939…e15b8d25…2023-01-01 22:17:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-01 16:36:18 signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-30#1019998 << w/e sbcl uses by default for seeded randomness via sb-ext:seed-random-state, though asciilifeform recommended xorshift because cheap to reseed, which happens very often in encode/decode
fe1d089ebcf14a11…fc86d08f…2023-01-01 22:19:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-30 23:49:44 phf[awt|deedbot]: signpost, what's the prng you ended up using?
6cedaf69fe1d089e…7eede939…2023-01-01 22:19:08 <phf> well, since i'm just exploring the concept, i'm just `sending` vectors along. i.e. i punted and defer to you on account of you spearheading this whole idea
6f4456cb6cedaf69…6cedaf69…2023-01-01 22:20:44 <phf> the whole shared prng is an optimization anyway, so that you don't have to send the values, can just send seed instead. to understand the behavior saving the values works good enough™
753908a16f4456cb…6f4456cb…2023-01-01 22:23:52 <phf> but ftr prng choice has to be part of reference implementation, since it has to produce identical sequences between server and client
5d74fba193ae7d36…d0de8e41…2023-01-01 23:34:48 <signpost> phf: in onlinecodes two seeds need to be sent along. one's a "message ID" which generates the association between message blocks and their "aux" checksum blocks.
99cadaae5d74fba1…5d74fba1…2023-01-01 23:35:08 signpost can't see a reason not to use the hash of original payload for this, two birds one stone.
c169d7c757fcd8f0…57fcd8f0…2023-01-01 23:36:02 <signpost> second class is the check-block-id, which is the product of the second (final) pass of encoding. one of these gets sent along with each block.
9fb94fa7c169d7c7…c169d7c7…2023-01-01 23:37:08 <signpost> that seed produces the edges of that check block which point to the message+aux blocks the check block is made of.
6314b1379fb94fa7…9fb94fa7…2023-01-01 23:37:47 <signpost> since the sequence of check blocks can be infinite one doesn't wanna do seed+offset for rng state for a given check block
25d961615f9df54c…6314b137…2023-01-01 23:38:16 signpost was thinking a "literate programming" pass over the py implementation would be nice
114fff7825d96161…25d96161…2023-01-01 23:38:31 <signpost> it's really not a complicated algo; simple enough my dumb head could implement
6676cd33114fff78…114fff78…2023-01-01 23:39:01 <signpost> re: standardization on prng, seems simplest that is capable of producing the desired distribution wins, and would wager xorshift will do fine.
766f33046676cd33…6676cd33…2023-01-01 23:39:31 signpost will grunt the py version forward to updated vpatch + blog poast hopefully sometime this week
10a73069766f3304…766f3304…2023-01-01 23:40:07 <signpost> shinohai: I scooped ya! http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-01#1020018
ad6fee2810a73069…fe1d089e…2023-01-01 23:41:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-01 16:42:29 signpost: and in lulz of old, wrecker gets wrecked
7adee6d061387d76…61387d76…2023-01-02 00:14:30 <asciilifeform> ( and, at least to some rubes, chief lolcow? (... what happened to gavin ? ) )
86c5e2297adee6d0…7adee6d0…2023-01-02 00:17:43 <asciilifeform> signpost: any prng can shit out the desired distribution if you transform the output. ( afaik the key attributes of a prng usable for lubyism are -- long period (i.e. not absurdly short), uniformity, and speed , in that order. )
0f6dbbc186c5e229…86c5e229…2023-01-02 00:18:20 <asciilifeform> ( seems like signpost has a workable one already ? )
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain ec2637915f7e828d7983f2f094a514a451426119eb9fe9ef8755c56818a16313) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
ad83a28ecfb0242c…39c0da22…2023-01-18 22:07:31 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-packet-loss.png
81f74a52e1b83e49…e1b83e49…2023-01-18 22:09:00 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-packet-loss-2.png
3ad0799481f74a52…d72c570b…2023-01-18 22:47:06 <signpost> phf: http://trinque.org/2023/01/18/ocpy_squirt_slurp/
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d23d299ce3e2866c0318e72af90efc9343bc30049b933ecbc936c0170a7179b7) prior to <phf> ---
2c7a8050d23d299c…5c328bbe…2023-01-20 19:27:44 <phf> asciilifeform, i forgot if it was yours or mp's take that compters and internet were an acident that lizards didn't anticipate, was very dangerous development for a while, until got reintegrated into older project
9fc3b26d2c7a8050…2c7a8050…2023-01-20 19:28:54 <phf> tell me, mr. anderson. what good is a phone call, if you're unable to speak?
d030ced62c7a8050…5cfc0075…2023-01-20 19:29:33 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform's historic pov (and moar elaborately written about by e.g. alex rosov in ru space & others)
ce5c54752c7a8050…d030ced6…2023-01-20 19:31:13 <asciilifeform> the microcomp revolution was 'mitigated' successfully by microshit in '90s; internet -- was not supposed to 'leak out' to plebes, these were to sit in aol cattle enclosure (and, observe, were finally herded back into it via arsebook et al ~10y later)
8c9289abd030ced6…9fc3b26d…2023-01-20 19:30:08 <phf> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-they-are-watching.png
f96aac26ce5c5475…8c9289ab…2023-01-20 19:32:22 <phf> asciilifeform, links to relevant alex rosov? and also http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1020988
917abfbcce5c5475…7e70a7aa…2023-01-20 19:36:02 <signpost> I'm yet unsatisfied with it being self-evident that elites should want this kind of world.
d228bfbaf96aac26…f96aac26…2023-01-20 19:33:58 <phf> also did you ever configure your port forwarding? i'm not getting any direct packets from you, and right now for whatever reason both deedbot and awt's station are doing something retarded, so dulapbot is suddenly my only connection to the outside
28ae3017f96aac26…ce5c5475…2023-01-20 19:34:24 <asciilifeform> phf: sadly had these on a since-deceased 'toilet' hdd; but prolly findable with elbow grease
de442a44f96aac26…51b57f39…2023-01-20 19:35:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 12:55:35 asciilifeform[4]: also seems to support e.g. alex rosov's pov re subj -- 'they strangled rhodesia to show erryone that no, you aint allowed to build a functional, independent country from scratch, fuckyou'
d76ada89f96aac26…0bd1c5f4…2023-01-20 19:36:32 <signpost> "tell me, mr. anderson. what good is a dick if you're unable to fuck?"
0bd1c5f4917abfbc…917abfbc…2023-01-20 19:36:10 <signpost> still lean towards some fundamental health catastrophe underlying.
a50d92d128ae3017…d76ada89…2023-01-20 19:37:11 <signpost> wife and I make a game of spotting female fat distribution on men.
1b6eb1c4de442a44…28ae3017…2023-01-20 19:35:06 <asciilifeform> d00d was positively obsessed with 'rhodesias', had lengthy series of novels re 'deliberate countries' which wage partizan war on the reich
c32536fcd76ada89…4f8261e3…2023-01-20 19:36:37 <asciilifeform> perhaps interestingly, described 'they need a faux-pandemic' in 2018, with step-by-step algo
d9d0513f0bd1c5f4…d228bfba…2023-01-20 19:36:27 <phf> asciilifeform, is there even any kind of entry point or lead? google is failing me
4f8261e31b6eb1c4…1b6eb1c4…2023-01-20 19:35:53 <asciilifeform> (sadly, cosmic ray hit his brain at some pt and ended up imagining ukrs as 1 such, lol, asciilifeform quit reading)
3903aebd2d0fdc73…d9d0513f…2023-01-20 19:38:37 <phf> asciilifeform, i read lj of a guy who believes that history, particularly ancient history was entirely fabricated and constructed by masonic vampire jews in 16th-19th centuries. km of woos ain't got nothing on me
13b4f4013903aebd…2d0fdc73…2023-01-20 19:39:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021146 << seems obv enuff that they do -- i.e. convert planet3 to brazil-style 'utopia', but with smaller expenditure on ammo & concertina wire than if populated by off-shelf healthy folx
ac04fc168f6d7be6…8f6d7be6…2023-01-20 19:40:53 <signpost> receiving replays. and I currently have a direct connection to neither of ya.
f61873d613b4f401…de442a44…2023-01-20 19:40:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:37:31 signpost: I'm yet unsatisfied with it being self-evident that elites should want this kind of world.
42fcfaafac04fc16…f5dc8c22…2023-01-20 19:40:54 <phf> signpost, i think it's because i was spitting truths above. shut it down!
e59af5edac04fc16…ac04fc16…2023-01-20 19:41:15 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021156 << that they do is not sufficient explanation for why they do
a8bc6968f61873d6…13b4f401…2023-01-20 19:39:26 <asciilifeform> phf: i recall that 1 (and there's entire subculture, recently spread to usa even)
5f8f58b4e59af5ed…e59af5ed…2023-01-20 19:42:00 <signpost> pedophilic vampirism seems one hell of a decayed state.
ea7d9eace59af5ed…f61873d6…2023-01-20 19:42:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:40:19 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021146 << seems obv enuff that they do -- i.e. convert planet3 to brazil-style 'utopia', but with smaller expenditure on ammo & concertina wire than if populated by off-shelf healthy folx
f5dc8c22a8bc6968…3903aebd…2023-01-20 19:39:53 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021238 << https://gorojanin-iz-b.livejournal.com for professional entomologists only
04defe445f8f58b4…42fcfaaf…2023-01-20 19:42:21 <phf> i think a stop gap solution would be to just set the order buffer time to 0, so that packets land immediately as they come
e7e366e5ea7d9eac…63d23a7b…2023-01-20 19:41:29 <asciilifeform> signpost: from asciilifeform's debug log, loox like 1 of us talked 'out of phase' and stations with order buffering are letting things sit in buffer
517f49acf5dc8c22…d23d299c…2023-01-20 19:39:57 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:38:40 phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, i read lj of a guy who believes that history, particularly ancient history was entirely fabricated and constructed by masonic vampire jews in 16th-19th centuries. km of woos ain't got nothing on me
102f510104defe44…d8dcfbcc…2023-01-20 19:43:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: expand? ( why ~wouldn't~ the pedophilic vampires want to populate planet3 with decerebrated, sexless biorobots? eternal dream of slaver elites since t=-inf )
d8dcfbcce7e366e5…e7e366e5…2023-01-20 19:41:48 <asciilifeform> (order buffer etc delenda est per new spec, but there aint anyone running new spec yet afaik)
63d23a7b517f49ac…a8bc6968…2023-01-20 19:40:23 <asciilifeform> it gets amped by the usual suspects for same reason as 'martians fired disintegrator to do 9-11' culture
770d64fc63d23a7b…517f49ac…2023-01-20 19:40:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: signpost: 'martians' 'happened' to it
f4a5c65e2ac3c425…102f5101…2023-01-20 19:44:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021148 << config'd, but may be phucked again (and dynamic ip)
3a188833f4a5c65e…ea7d9eac…2023-01-20 19:45:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:37:40 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: also did you ever configure your port forwarding? i'm not getting any direct packets from you, and right now for whatever reason both deedbot and awt's station are doing something retarded, so dulapbot is suddenly my only connection to the outside
6b54b39ad4ef0ce0…2ac3c425…2023-01-20 19:47:47 <signpost> asciilifeform: take it from biology's perspective. run the globohomo thing forward; it results in a population crash that erases the industrial processes that keep the pedovampires in power
ac7e20506b54b39a…6b54b39a…2023-01-20 19:48:00 <signpost> the lack of rational self-interest among rulers does not smell like rulers who are well.
71def758ac7e2050…f8b3c77b…2023-01-20 19:48:05 <awt> asciilifeform: can't remember atm thus the 'shortly'
34b6e61e71def758…ac7e2050…2023-01-20 19:48:18 <signpost> they look like people projecting their own suicidality upon the world
a852492834b6e61e…34b6e61e…2023-01-20 19:48:39 <signpost> or in nietzsche's terms, those who wish revenge upon reality for their having existed
cb506334a8524928…6253bb94…2023-01-20 19:48:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: the crash in question strictly among the white folx with 'unreasonable' expectations (such as not living 7 to a room, or making use of hospitals, etc)
1a62e36987f1d160…d4ef0ce0…2023-01-20 19:49:25 <phf> signpost, well, the question "why live?" hasn't been answered, and if god *is* dead, we ought to be really mad at him
2a02244d87f1d160…cb506334…2023-01-20 19:49:26 <asciilifeform> signpost: observe, 0 crash among the designated 'worker' untermenschen
b93367071a62e369…2a02244d…2023-01-20 19:50:19 <asciilifeform> the bankmans spend 0 cycles on 'why live' puzzle -- difficult to end up scratching head 'why live' when snorting coke by the kilogram, surrounded by harem, on epstein islands
c0292094b9336707…1a62e369…2023-01-20 19:50:26 <phf> or in other terms, why model airplane clubs, when you can just have a eloi watching netflix on android
535e529f592da46a…71def758…2023-01-20 19:51:14 <awt> asciilifeform: order_buffer_expiration_seconds (default is 120 seconds)
1740a2bc71b304c2…c0292094…2023-01-20 19:51:46 <phf> asciilifeform, that's not historically supported. why live is almost entirely a question at the very top of maslov's
87d87eba2a01da55…50562d99…2023-01-20 19:52:51 <asciilifeform> phf: the aristos only start 'why live'ing when coke tolerance sets in, then they go and take to swimming in vortex beach in costa rica etc
a97092791e289e96…1e289e96…2023-01-20 19:55:46 <asciilifeform> signpost: observe that, for most part, the davos-goers aint self-castrating, nor 'walmart fat', nor otherwise show the maculae
3d50ff29a9709279…a9709279…2023-01-20 19:56:28 <asciilifeform> and at their feast there, not eating 'meal squares'(tm) or dried cockroaches
4117bff604494920…04494920…2023-01-20 19:58:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021191 << homo netflixicus has 0 concept of constructive activity, and similarly no one with-whom. may as well ask why vodka on indian reservation.
1c0da15e4117bff6…3a188833…2023-01-20 19:59:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:51:39 phf[awt|deedbot]: or in other terms, why model airplane clubs, when you can just have a eloi watching netflix on android
68e389361c0da15e…4117bff6…2023-01-20 20:00:00 <asciilifeform> from lizard pov, white who expects to e.g. live in own house, is seen similarly to how 19th c american settler saw indian who expected to freely horse around hunting buffalo. i.e. 'annoying, entitled pest'
c40cfd07e9ea6d6a…770d64fc…2023-01-20 20:01:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-15 asciilifeform: ... from reich pov, plebes having savings is a bug, similarly to resistive losses in electric cable. 'pieces of yacht that got diverted'
2184ebabc40cfd07…e9ea6d6a…2023-01-20 20:05:14 <asciilifeform> ... from yachtman pov, collapse simply means 'squeeze'em harder', and 'apre moi le deluge'(tm)
f7939c962184ebab…c40cfd07…2023-01-20 20:05:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-27 asciilifeform: PeterL: both come from same root -- lizards' desire to keep their yachts, palaces, and cocaine despite a collapsing support base. i.e. same thing that happened in e.g. argentina. (or 1700s fr. for that matter. and plenty of other places.)
fb590e8df7939c96…f7939c96…2023-01-20 20:05:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-07 asciilifeform: oblig. su joak: 'father: vodka's gone up, son. son: father, does that mean you will drink less now? father: no, son, it means that now you will eat less!'
314cde77fb590e8d…1740a2bc…2023-01-20 20:09:16 <phf> is the ideology of the deathcult the driving force, or the ideology is emergent from deathcult
5021a82310a3e209…2184ebab…2023-01-20 20:10:36 <asciilifeform> afaik they've been trying out various ideologies to set plebes against 1 anuther for 100+y, seeing 'what sticks' and experimenting
aeafd6495021a823…1c0da15e…2023-01-20 20:11:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-19 16:35:45 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-19#1021071 << suspect that it's belly-bustingly funny to the perps (i.e. lizards). just as bear baiting not funny to the bears, aint trying to be, but to ~spectators~
274aee6baeafd649…10a3e209…2023-01-20 20:11:41 <phf> yeah, but apre moi le deluge is not the default or the only way of going about things
34985f2b274aee6b…274aee6b…2023-01-20 20:13:00 <phf> you know you have king solomon, or alexander/philip, or "divine rights of kings", or …
aad3529b34985f2b…5021a823…2023-01-20 20:13:56 <asciilifeform> at 1 time they had religious framework and >lifetime time horizon. afaik mostly evaporated, and replaced with 'go die today so i can die tomorrow'(tm)(r)(kolyma) default firmware
44f08b73aad3529b…34985f2b…2023-01-20 20:14:01 <phf> but then i'm not a strong believer in lizards specifically. lizards are kind of like an antichrist, a particular kind of failure mode
841c662b44f08b73…aad3529b…2023-01-20 20:15:00 asciilifeform iirc described previously, but 'lizards' are analogous to faraday's magnetic field lines. i.e. exist, but not as pictured in sf films, with actual scales etc
79a86999841c662b…44f08b73…2023-01-20 20:15:20 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021301 << which is evola's argument also "if god is dead, then it'll be all nihilism from now on"
7d108f6f79a86999…fb590e8d…2023-01-20 20:15:20 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 15:13:56 asciilifeform: at 1 time they had religious framework and >lifetime time horizon. afaik mostly evaporated, and replaced with 'go die today so i can die tomorrow'(tm)(r)(kolyma) default firmware
6426b4997d108f6f…c146c322…2023-01-20 20:18:27 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's cosomography, 'lizard' is not same item as king, baron, etc. of old times, but concretely artifact of 20th c. when slave rebellion began to seem inevitable (to retake the fruits of industrial rev) and subset of elite chose secrecy as defense strategy
afab923d6426b499…6426b499…2023-01-20 20:20:07 <asciilifeform> i.e. lizard not rules in a palace visited by public or issues decrees openly, but rather via curated meat puppets passed off as 'elite' ('presidents', 'ceo', etc)
c146c322d2edc50b…b33d5416…2023-01-20 20:17:02 <asciilifeform> in same sense as pascal's 'pascaline' was 'a computer'
a7df5fb2afab923d…afab923d…2023-01-20 20:21:14 <asciilifeform> plebes thereby can kill, or 'vote out', or 'cancel', etc. these 'elites' and nuffin interesting happens, identical replacements are brought in
50ada173c146c322…d2edc50b…2023-01-20 20:17:55 <phf> i kind of always thought that if at any point you've killed any one of your enemies with poison or dagger, that elevates you from the lizard status
86ede5e882a7f366…a7df5fb2…2023-01-20 20:23:06 <asciilifeform> fwiw there were earlier attempts at 'transition to covert rule', the 18th c. masonic wankages, but at the time proved maladaptive (power base was still agri-physiocratic and impossible to hide in the sense of e.g. 'who controls' today's printing press brrr)
eaa20be00332ee32…86ede5e8…2023-01-20 20:24:08 <asciilifeform> 'dragon' aint a bound symbol in asciilifeform's cosmography, so nfi
f8c811f4eaa20be0…eaa20be0…2023-01-20 20:24:45 <asciilifeform> there are 'lizards'; 'sublizards'; and humans.
e7329442f8c811f4…7d108f6f…2023-01-20 20:24:46 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-04-11 asciilifeform: fwiw in asciilifeform's cosmography, a sublizard is a 'human' who directly executes orders from lizard, while exposed to 'humans' in daily context
82da090bf8c811f4…e8bb52b5…2023-06-30 18:26:19 <awt_akris> Ok 3rd or 4th attempt at paging seems to work well for both initial sync + synced states.
dbcb8a8fe7329442…f8c811f4…2023-01-20 20:25:23 <asciilifeform> ( a 'sublizard' being a 'cutout' b/w lizards and humans )
9495de9e5df7a91a…dbcb8a8f…2023-01-20 20:26:08 asciilifeform not presumes to rank lizards by competence, given as not directly visible, and no 'standard candela' as in sense used by astronomers to sort stars by size
5534c2c49495de9e…5df7a91a…2023-01-20 20:26:15 <phf> like a dragon is a lizard that doesn't want its own house to fall down, as opposed to pure oportunism. "100 thousand will die, so that 100 million will live", as opposed to "i'll be in my bunker"
a3f9c5fd5534c2c4…9495de9e…2023-01-20 20:26:41 <asciilifeform> in asciilifeform's pov, the folx with identifiable bunkers and 'i'ma sit there' are subs
2f1d9a55a3f9c5fd…5534c2c4…2023-01-20 20:27:39 <phf> your brother paul is there, meet him on the docks. good luck, jc
d1936ab32f1d9a55…a3f9c5fd…2023-01-20 20:27:59 <asciilifeform> and, while it is possible that somewhere at top of pyramid someone is working other than by 'pure opportunism', it aint obvious to naked eye from 'earth' that this is so
e4f2c214d1936ab3…d1936ab3…2023-01-20 20:29:05 <asciilifeform> to naked eye seems as if all of'em are in '100 mil must die so that i can continue to get fresh strawberries flown in to my island 10y from nao' etc mode
d3b9e5b2e4f2c214…e4f2c214…2023-01-20 20:30:11 <asciilifeform> ( but it aint about mega-killoffs ~per se~ -- also includes '250 mil untermenschen must also get born, and not expect to live to 50 or use indoor plumbing' etc at same time as '100mil ameri-suburbanites gotta die' )
e2bc2371d3b9e5b2…2f1d9a55…2023-01-20 20:30:47 <phf> when i mentioned we could put him on the priority list for the ambrosia vaccine he was so willing it was almost pathetic
2b98ab02d3b9e5b2…d3b9e5b2…2023-01-20 20:30:49 <asciilifeform> ultimately the contest is still re control of human hands, and optimization of slave quality, just as 8k y ago
0e6704f8ddf0b4da…ddf0b4da…2023-01-20 20:31:41 <asciilifeform> see also pelevin's 'heads in jars' stories from recent yrs, fully expands on subj comedically
2ddcf1df0e6704f8…0e6704f8…2023-01-20 20:33:14 <asciilifeform> lizard programme aint identical to old-time monarch programme -- similar, yes, 'maintain pyramid shape and flow of goodies to the apex', but w/out the concept of 'legitimacy of rule', the latter -- obsolete
3727b3b02ddcf1df…e2bc2371…2023-01-20 20:33:29 <phf> i don't know if i have an overarching cosmology like that. like i wouldn't be able to tell you if it's emergent, or if there's a cabal, or …
86aa41f13727b3b0…3727b3b0…2023-01-20 20:34:40 <phf> my attitude to the question of lizard is kind of like girl's attitude to supernatural "if we see a ghost in this forest at 3am, that would be awesome because it confirms the reality of it one way or another"
acb1c2336c5a94c2…2ddcf1df…2023-01-20 20:36:31 <asciilifeform> in former times, need for 'legitimacy' ritual and public throne limited 'laffer curve'(tm) (i.e. how much blood could drink from plebes)
ebea7ca1acb1c233…6c5a94c2…2023-01-20 20:36:48 <phf> "because up until this point it really looked like it's a bunch of lucky psycopathic idiots running around, caught up in the historic process, unable to affect any meaningful lasting change"
c080a961ebea7ca1…acb1c233…2023-01-20 20:37:00 <asciilifeform> 20th c tech offered tempting promise of 'squeeze all'. orig. via concentration camp etc., later via 'soft' mechanisms
a9f9106bc080a961…c080a961…2023-01-20 20:37:50 <asciilifeform> phf: nobody's seen an electron either, must point out, not only ghost
848d04d3a9f9106b…a9f9106b…2023-01-20 20:38:39 <asciilifeform> (before laughing, recall that this is an actual problem, it led to the uncontrolled proliferation of unseeable entities in 'modern' physics, i.e. the 'particle zoo' consisting largely of items which exist in fact strictly mathematically )
4133e3e4848d04d3…848d04d3…2023-01-20 20:41:13 <asciilifeform> the ghost hunter is merely a physicist without (usually) the req'd brain mass or tooling, but with same fundamentally healthy human inclination to model
93dd242d4133e3e4…ebea7ca1…2023-01-20 20:41:59 <phf> asciilifeform, i'm entirely ok with uncertainty, i'm a platonist
d0100c584133e3e4…4133e3e4…2023-01-20 20:42:01 <asciilifeform> (and usually with psychological vulnerabilities to 'martian pushers' to keep him hunting ghost rather than sumthing that one could actually put a bullet in)
ecc07aa893dd242d…d0100c58…2023-01-20 20:42:29 <asciilifeform> 'ok with uncertainty' is a++, but not means that cannot consider models.
ef7d66e0ecc07aa8…93dd242d…2023-01-20 20:43:24 <phf> i mean world being held together by the will of Dazhbog is also an acceptable approach. there always will be dragons, both in collective and in subjective
8ad3fb01ecc07aa8…ecc07aa8…2023-01-20 20:43:25 <asciilifeform> a model which successfully compresses known facts, and predicts new -- may still be a 'phlogiston' but still beats living shit outta 'i dun need a model, things Merely Happen By Will of Allah'(tm)
da052915b29219a3…ef7d66e0…2023-01-20 20:45:31 <phf> there's a cool hard scifi that i don't remember the name of, and frankly i can't even verbalize what's going on, but it has "experience reality at subatomic, planck's time levels" as a plot device
de56580eda052915…b29219a3…2023-01-20 20:46:04 <asciilifeform> phf: there were several. australian, greg egan, had at least 1
0748c737de56580e…de56580e…2023-01-20 20:46:47 <asciilifeform> d00d bakes a cheat device that lets him walk around 'uncollapsed' (in the story, 'copenhagen' qm turns out to be real)
ed365f75b9140e20…b9140e20…2023-01-20 20:54:07 <phf> you're too late and you can't do a damn thing about it! -- … except send you back to the people, in a body bag
e017e89db92901f2…0748c737…2023-01-20 22:45:34 <asciilifeform> was thinking of 'permutation city' iirc
998e41b2e017e89d…87f1d160…2023-01-20 23:10:58 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021188 << "god is dead" means never was. so at what mad?
a52e9aa6998e41b2…aeafd649…2023-01-20 23:12:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:50:38 phf[awt|deedbot]: signpost, well, the question "why live?" hasn't been answered, and if god *is* dead, we ought to be really mad at him
5191a963a52e9aa6…998e41b2…2023-01-20 23:11:32 <signpost> his Antichrist made it pretty clear to me that he viewed gods as authored items.
840e8f625191a963…5191a963…2023-01-20 23:12:09 <signpost> so not our stars, but ourselves, that we sit in a corpse rather than a better-authored god.
3f49f8b4840e8f62…840e8f62…2023-01-20 23:17:31 <signpost> the "why live" one's also ill-formed imho. like one has an alternative where they might unlive.
81e56eef3f49f8b4…3f49f8b4…2023-01-20 23:19:23 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021189 << this arrogance where they can gracefully depopulate without unseating themselves, sure. go ahead.
f820435981e56eef…a52e9aa6…2023-01-20 23:20:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:50:39 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: signpost: observe, 0 crash among the designated 'worker' untermenschen
def5eac3f8204359…81e56eef…2023-01-20 23:20:33 <signpost> anyway, someone smarter than me needs to come along and complete nietzsche's critique of the western mind, because the contemporary mode is something like a soul which has been abandoned by god. which is ill-formed, insane.
9348ca4fdef5eac3…def5eac3…2023-01-20 23:22:18 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021190 << this is no picture of heaven, man. that's the thing.
49ddc8ab9348ca4f…f8204359…2023-01-20 23:23:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 14:51:33 asciilifeform[5]: the bankmans spend 0 cycles on 'why live' puzzle -- difficult to end up scratching head 'why live' when snorting coke by the kilogram, surrounded by harem, on epstein islands
3ab813583e8ac719…3e8ac719…2023-01-20 23:22:49 <signpost> even a 100% hedonic evaluation of value in life does not put his at the pinnacle
ace6e99f3ab81358…b92901f2…2023-01-20 23:23:44 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021273 << yeah, but that's a materliastic, rational view. on the archetypal, unexisted is the same as existed but died. the grief over such a death will still manifest as a trauma.
0dbbd1e7ace6e99f…49ddc8ab…2023-01-20 23:25:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:12:15 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021188 << "god is dead" means never was. so at what mad?
fdab068e0dbbd1e7…ace6e99f…2023-01-20 23:25:50 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021277 << man, that's another materialistic, rational position. yes, one can't unlive, but this conclusion only leads to superficial "you're born anyway, so might as well enjoy it!" which is one step away from "live eat love". tell that this is somehow satisfying to your pysche
b53770a0fdab068e…0dbbd1e7…2023-01-20 23:27:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:18:57 signpost: the "why live" one's also ill-formed imho. like one has an alternative where they might unlive.
4a56aabe12909334…12909334…2023-01-20 23:26:34 <signpost> and yes, we're gonna have to go straight through the corpse and eat our way to the other side.
fc23ec474a56aabe…fdab068e…2023-01-20 23:26:42 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021285 << further, a nihilist is mad that his father-god died-unexisted on him
35d7fdacfc23ec47…b53770a0…2023-01-20 23:27:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:25:07 phf[awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021273 << yeah, but that's a materliastic, rational view. on the archetypal, unexisted is the same as existed but died. the grief over such a death will still manifest as a trauma.
1e9c011935d7fdac…4a56aabe…2023-01-20 23:28:19 <signpost> where does the nihilist stand to make that evaluation?
538e458751e404e6…51e404e6…2023-01-20 23:30:11 <signpost> anyway, this thing where we authored a coherent firmware for our right brains seemed to work pretty well. our rulers seem immiserated. maybe they consider authoring one of those that doesn't immiserate *them*.
aa1a9f2e538e4587…538e4587…2023-01-20 23:30:32 <signpost> they won't. but it's unclear their current lives are superior by their own standards.
d6417e8baa1a9f2e…aa1a9f2e…2023-01-20 23:33:02 <signpost> phf: I don't know that the materialist label sticks.
f13ea9cfd6417e8b…0e074e51…2023-01-20 23:33:19 <phf> well, a nihilist is in a historic context. when an amerimutt looks up in a sistine chapel he necessarily feels anger, that's why amerimutt desided to destroy the whole world with woke
7181fa0ef13ea9cf…d6417e8b…2023-01-20 23:33:50 <signpost> let god be real, and our culture destroyed its connection to him. the rebellion amounts to hatred of the freedom to make the turn.
45c71d957181fa0e…7181fa0e…2023-01-20 23:34:21 <signpost> I don't disagree; I just think it needs to be said that this mutt has shit for brains at a fundamental level, and not just in output
75244df545c71d95…45c71d95…2023-01-20 23:34:58 <signpost> not just allowing itself to lazily internalize contradiction but aggressively demanding all follow.
e39abbc875244df5…f13ea9cf…2023-01-20 23:36:07 <phf> i have no idea what the past three messages mean :)
b15682fce39abbc8…75244df5…2023-01-20 23:37:06 <signpost> first one, how is someone claiming they hate that which does not exist for lacking the power to force them to believe it does anything but a parser error.
f0c3aa55b15682fc…b15682fc…2023-01-20 23:37:22 <signpost> second, I'm not seeing as much light between your nihilist and the mutt.
5d6d84c7aab22bfa…aab22bfa…2023-01-20 23:38:03 <signpost> from the top, why do our elites have faces that wear their *own* torment?
9784e1f95d6d84c7…e39abbc8…2023-01-20 23:42:48 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021304 << well, my point is that it doesn't have to be rational, and it's not. like what's the objection, that it doesn't make sense to be mad at a dead god, because he never existed to begin with OR that the statement makes no sense OR that the statement is false?
2a00c1e19784e1f9…35d7fdac…2023-01-20 23:44:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:38:30 signpost: first one, how is someone claiming they hate that which does not exist for lacking the power to force them to believe it does anything but a parser error.
5755f0c62a00c1e1…9784e1f9…2023-01-20 23:46:23 <phf> a less romanticist perspective on similar idea might be, "the entire western project is build on the foundation of the bible, if bible is false, then ???"
b335b9c25755f0c6…5755f0c6…2023-01-20 23:48:07 <phf> because something similar happened to russian after the collapse of soviet union. not only was communism is a lie, but (we find out) that ussr was pretty evil at times. a rational perspective might be "well, it was a grand and terrible project, but look we built rockets, educated a ۠4;Z Cyv\Ex]Xʁ%KM7
af714fe6b335b9c2…b335b9c2…2023-01-20 23:48:07 <phf> n giant country, built hospitals and factories, etc." but that's not the perspective the bulk of men take. the perspective is/was "what the fuck my life is a lie what do" ۠4;Z Cyv\Ex]Xʁ%KM7
2e3068a1af714fe6…5d6d84c7…2023-01-21 00:16:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021308 << objection's more me wondering why meditating on the "mad at dead god" concept doesn't produce a moment of enlightenment of the "doc, it hurts when I do this" variety.
7aa83c332e3068a1…2a00c1e1…2023-01-21 00:18:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:44:01 phf[deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021304 << well, my point is that it doesn't have to be rational, and it's not. like what's the objection, that it doesn't make sense to be mad at a dead god, because he never existed to begin with OR that the statement makes no sense OR
6330ed2c7aa83c33…2e3068a1…2023-01-21 00:17:14 <signpost> clearly it's insufficient for most, regardless of social status and other variables.
6d72f2906330ed2c…6330ed2c…2023-01-21 00:18:33 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021310 << getting pretty satisfied with the observation that it worked, and investigating what specifically.
ec7ee8956d72f290…7aa83c33…2023-01-21 00:19:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:47:46 phf[deedbot]: a less romanticist perspective on similar idea might be, "the entire western project is build on the foundation of the bible, if bible is false, then ???"
d6070e84ec7ee895…6d72f290…2023-01-21 00:19:11 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021312 << right, how such a mind becomes a ruling elite, and stays stuck in this, entirely escapes me.
0dfc567dd6070e84…ec7ee895…2023-01-21 00:20:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 18:49:48 phf[deedbot]: n giant country, built hospitals and factories, etc." but that's not the perspective the bulk of men take. the perspective is/was "what the fuck my life is a lie what do"
683850bd0dfc567d…af714fe6…2023-01-21 00:23:11 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021313 << it does though, but the various attempts have been insufficient, unstable and chaotic in all kinds of ways.
c06d67b7683850bd…0dfc567d…2023-01-21 00:24:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 19:18:09 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-01-20#1021308 << objection's more me wondering why meditating on the "mad at dead god" concept doesn't produce a moment of enlightenment of the "doc, it hurts when I do this" variety.
cf180fccc06d67b7…d6070e84…2023-01-21 00:24:31 <signpost> it's like the west produced its one zen koan, and then shot itself in the head on the spot, lol.
d6e4573297be0d11…cf180fcc…2023-01-21 00:25:24 <signpost> right, these are pretty valiant efforts to reboot meaning, outcome aside.
8131f568d6e45732…97be0d11…2023-01-21 00:25:26 <phf> then you had all kinds of attempts, my favorite is of course saganism, but you had for example post-hippie "concensus buddhism" which is where i think wokeism comes from, etc.
6fdb6b9a8131f568…8131f568…2023-01-21 00:28:27 <phf> all of those attempts were compromised by nihilism, turning them into death cults
afd849ad6fdb6b9a…6fdb6b9a…2023-01-21 00:29:39 <phf> like saganism, started with feynman "a scientist can appreciate the flower from its intricate biological and biochemical perspectives" or sagan's own "universe is woah", and it turned into a scientism, which is a pandemic, renewables and climate change death cult
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de5c764c1da7f5ba…3696bd57…2023-02-18 18:30:12 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-05-10 asciilifeform: i've found flashlights w/ 8bit micros in'em.
afbb2d42de5c764c…42dfcf0b…2023-02-18 18:32:18 <asciilifeform> phf: from 'heighten the contradictions'(tm)(r) pov -- a++. wainot, let's crank out 'indian coad' with subtle bugola on erry 3rd line at speed of gpu instead of speed of indians, wainot
59060c6942dfcf0b…2884d878…2023-02-18 18:30:54 <phf> yeah i mean smarttv, why. but there's a hacker somewhere there in the mix trying to get a bunch of chatgpts to produce code that works and hold it all together
dfa26e99afbb2d42…59060c69…2023-02-18 18:37:27 <phf> well, the point i want to make but keep not making, is that you have diffusion of talent, combined with misallocation of talent. in the 70s everyone who's anyone was at a handful of "unix rooms", mit ai lib, xerox, bell labs. these day neither unix room nor the kind of tasks it was set to solve are economically viable.
0620261edfa26e99…afbb2d42…2023-02-18 18:39:55 <asciilifeform> phf: (iirc beaten to a painful death in ye olde #t bug) see also pike 2k, where evident that the 'egyptian stagnation' already underway then.
108ca79fbb1e2841…bb1e2841…2023-02-18 18:41:25 <phf> subj has been beaten to death, also old man yell at clowd
80053939108ca79f…de9a2c91…2023-02-18 18:43:25 <asciilifeform> fwiw it prolly is still possible to learn 'on watch battery' from old b00kz & artifacts , and then go on even to program for dough w/out ever touching 'adtech & loljs' , just as was possible when asciilifeform started. but the door to that world aint getting any wider or easier to open, quite opposite
b0c9bb4580053939…80053939…2023-02-18 18:43:52 asciilifeform fwiw never sat in the 'unix rooms', set foot in a 'mit', etc
3c1f5614b0c9bb45…b0c9bb45…2023-02-18 18:45:06 <asciilifeform> or take e.g. a fella asciilifeform once taught & worked with, who was booted outta high school, drove truck by day and learned to reverse at night on 'warcraft 2' adhoc net, still going in 2010s, lol
e209ff6c3c1f5614…3c1f5614…2023-02-18 18:45:31 <asciilifeform> walked in with 0day for subj, lol, which got him hired
9144d0bde209ff6c…e209ff6c…2023-02-18 18:46:48 <asciilifeform> such things , suspect, remain possible, but the # of cracks in the pavement you gotta fall through is climbing.
7a26903d9144d0bd…108ca79f…2023-02-18 18:46:56 <phf> i know some ru hackerspace zoomers, who are talented hackers, they are all working for different paid in shitcoin cryptoscam builders
79ad85317a26903d…9144d0bd…2023-02-18 18:48:44 <asciilifeform> hey, 1 kind of salt mine where harvesting printola from idjits is moar or less same as anuther
d381598179ad8531…79ad8531…2023-02-18 18:48:59 <asciilifeform> the sad part is that no 'state of art' is advanced. but this -- same nao as 20y ago
7e0e9b631871f78b…01d1310c…2023-02-19 13:51:00 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-18#1023633 << please disgregard - this patch is suffering about 40% brain damage
e6b105917e0e9b63…b1cf1bd0…2023-02-19 13:52:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 11:21:46 awt[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: cgra et al.: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UXKZ << patch to send ac only on launch/new key/address change for review
b14c7a960000000000000000…2023-02-23 19:16:56 <phf> so prods are otherwise functionally equivalent. whether ack is set or no is mostly note to self
ba1cb6d5cb526955…8f6d18c5…2023-02-23 19:56:27 <asciilifeform> phf: notion was, a prod oughta be answered with a prod. theoretically could omit 'this is an answr' mark, but imho not hurts
6e37ef0bfdc6e5c8…b14c7a96…2023-02-23 19:57:37 <phf> i still think that your station is misconfigured :>
dfc167ee1ff6eb04…29c4bedd…2023-02-23 19:58:11 asciilifeform gears up for n-th attempt at unfucking subj
a9fd01ecdfc167ee…cb526955…2023-02-23 19:58:19 <signpost> yeah, I've got ascii as hearsay still also.
28c039dba9fd01ec…dfc167ee…2023-02-23 19:59:21 <asciilifeform> apropos -- is anyone from the set of folx who have working direct peerings w/ asciilifeform , in a nat while doing so ?
80b0784cb308def6…1ff6eb04…2023-02-23 20:00:01 <phf> i would guess that one can sort of rely on prods to know what ones ip is
d0989b7a80b0784c…153d2928…2023-02-23 20:00:30 <lobbes> fwiw I am not behind nat and am directly peering with ascii (as far as I can tell)
a9afd381d0989b7a…b308def6…2023-02-23 20:00:49 asciilifeform btw seeing multi-second lags in weechat lagmeter ; and kilometres of 'couldn't use mcrypt...'
c2011094a9afd381…80b0784c…2023-02-23 20:00:51 <phf> lobbes, what does your at say? specifically what's the port
5148bfe0c2011094…d0989b7a…2023-02-23 20:01:52 <lobbes> phf: as in, what does my AT entry for asciilifeform read?
1cdba0145148bfe0…140ff2ae…2023-02-23 20:02:07 <awt> asciilifeform: if you haven't built mcrypt, see: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-20#1023890
cccb733b1cdba014…a9433400…2023-02-23 20:03:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-20 11:11:59 awt: PeterL: Looks like I didn't. To aleviate for now you can comment out line 80 in lib/message.py.
e00928fde99ebf48…92714126…2023-02-23 20:02:45 <asciilifeform> awt: also loox like it's sending addrcasts erry coupla min
bf7d6477e00928fd…e00928fd…2023-02-23 20:03:04 asciilifeform thought that per new patch, will only addrcast if notices ip changed
b81f5f9f25d8cbb8…a9fd01ec…2023-02-23 20:03:21 <signpost> would be funny if ascii's station is crash-looping each send, and only making it partway through peers
af2234ed86e1f66e…25d8cbb8…2023-02-23 20:04:22 <asciilifeform> signpost: not detectably (seems to send n^2 addrcasts, n being # of coldpeers)
a6054b727522b2de…7522b2de…2023-02-23 20:07:33 <asciilifeform> awt: is there some flag that needs to be set to turn off the old spammy addrcast behaviour on 9969 ?
d83e57a2a6054b72…1cdba014…2023-02-23 20:10:02 <awt> asciilifeform: no. 9969 only broadcasts ac when send_address_cast is set to 1 in the knobs table. Aftward is set to 0.
adb9313ed83e57a2…d83e57a2…2023-02-23 20:10:35 <awt> It sends address cast on startup, when a key is added, and when prod reports changed address.
29041151adb9313e…78f9b19c…2023-02-23 20:08:53 <jonsykkel> phf one of ur messsages selfchain points to a asciilifeform message and another one self+netchain is 00000. in case u are un aware
1a091e1badb9313e…a6054b72…2023-02-23 20:11:24 <asciilifeform> awt: this is defo not what asciilifeform is seeing currently on 9969
b43c8ce81a091e1b…58abd2f9…2023-02-23 20:11:45 <signpost> would be nice to log whose packet caused this
3643509f61eb1df2…61eb1df2…2023-02-23 20:12:48 <asciilifeform> ftr the thing is sending addrcasts ~nonstop
9bbb60b3ee23853e…86e1f66e…2023-02-23 20:14:41 <phf> jonsykkel, i haven't been keeping any state across reboots, so normally it'll be either 0 0 or 0 netchain
c0ab70409bbb60b3…9bbb60b3…2023-02-23 20:14:54 <phf> i normally do a prod on launch, but this one was a result of a buggy situation
a6e923a59bbb60b3…adb9313e…2023-02-23 20:19:34 <awt> asciilifeform: not seeing any PROD messages from you - was hoping to be able to check your version.
f442d997a6e923a5…36180ba3…2023-02-23 20:20:31 <phf> jonsykkel, ty on the asciilifeform thing. it was a silly bug in a lookup function
de818e579c0aad54…c0ab7040…2023-02-23 20:15:36 <phf> but the one where it points to asciilifeforms is a bug, ty, i'll investigate. does your client complains when the chain is broken per spec?
988d9f2d97362483…f442d997…2023-02-23 20:22:52 <phf> ok, i'm getting decodable addresscasts from asciilifeform and cgra, so i'll implement that part next..
04dff1bb36180ba3…c838b645…2023-02-23 20:17:04 <jonsykkel> (which i learned later is incorrect behavior, orginally misunderstood spec. fork lamp supposed to light up for hearsay only as i understand it)
ab8810f7988d9f2d…ee23853e…2023-02-23 20:36:29 <asciilifeform> awt: set the knob to 0, but somehow still sending addrcasts nonstop
7805a1b4ab8810f7…1a03104f…2023-02-23 20:39:09 <awt> asciilifeform: comment out server.py:200 to stop.
20e36352404cb1f8…ab8810f7…2023-02-23 20:42:15 <asciilifeform> awt: commented; ~still~ sends addrcasts
0d013f2f20e36352…988d9f2d…2023-02-23 20:42:24 <phf> is that stop entirely? possibly to just reduce the frequency? i'd still like to addresscast w/ ascii
aa20639cb4283395…404cb1f8…2023-02-23 20:43:14 <awt> asciilifeform: sorry that line was for the initial ac. Also need to comment out 204
6713faf6aa20639c…b4283395…2023-02-23 20:43:45 asciilifeform will leave it spamming so phf can test his eater
2a2308a0922ca0f2…74320180…2023-02-23 20:44:33 <asciilifeform> awt: strongly suspect that 'did addr change' detector aint nat-friendly; but not read the sores yet
bd717fcf2a2308a0…0d013f2f…2023-02-23 20:45:14 <phf> imho did addr change should work directly from prod, and no other way
5a37f4b10b0e60cd…0b0e60cd…2023-02-23 20:45:47 <asciilifeform> there's the question of wat-do re port tho
4283540f5a37f4b1…5a37f4b1…2023-02-23 20:45:55 <asciilifeform> under nat, it'll be ephemeral port, i.e. rubbish
0138fda54283540f…4283540f…2023-02-23 20:46:18 <asciilifeform> should trigger cast or not ? if yes, it'll fire nonstop. which is what asciilifeform suspects is happening on his desk
51b8214e81829f6c…81829f6c…2023-02-23 20:47:20 <phf> so e.g. if i'm sending to ascii from port 12345 then i'm also sending to anybody else from same port
43815a4ec7b99280…922ca0f2…2023-02-23 20:47:36 <awt> asciilifeform: works directly from prod. See station.py:198
d5d09e284f682e59…47258644…2023-02-23 20:48:16 <asciilifeform> awt: this might explain the nonstop addrcast thing
a33467e9d5d09e28…4f682e59…2023-02-23 20:49:24 <awt> asciilifeform: in that case you can disable it there instead of commenting out in server.py. Then you'll still get the ac on startup and addition of key.
1640bbe0a33467e9…c7b99280…2023-02-23 20:49:27 <phf> asciilifeform, actually i'd like to see a nat that doesn't do it that way
d4b201cc78912566…1640bbe0…2023-02-23 20:50:16 <phf> because if all packets come from same port on machine, why would nat randomize ports on exodus?
72e13130d4b201cc…78912566…2023-02-23 20:53:05 <awt> asciilifeform: from my outgoing prod message to your station, port/ip remain constant: port: 21580
613a12cd72e13130…d5d09e28…2023-02-23 20:54:11 <asciilifeform> awt: nfi which peering is triggering it. evidently not that one
c34ab98b613a12cd…613a12cd…2023-02-23 20:54:12 <asciilifeform> it's not a timer trigger tho, quite clearly
cf8ae704c34ab98b…c34ab98b…2023-02-23 20:54:27 <asciilifeform> seems to be going more or less nonstop.
057d64dacf8ae704…72e13130…2023-02-23 20:56:44 <awt> Yes could trigger as often as you receive a prod with a different address. You should be able to see all your incoming prod messages in the log.
b9699e0b057d64da…d4b201cc…2023-02-23 20:59:15 <phf> the whole prod based ip then is not particulraly trivial
cef01630b9699e0b…cf8ae704…2023-02-23 20:59:41 <asciilifeform> phf: given idjicy of commonplace nat -- defo not trivial
5aef3330cef01630…b9699e0b…2023-02-23 21:00:40 <phf> imho one needs to keep seen-as-address per each station, and then have smart code to figure out if one can even make claims about "external address". so e.g. if everyone tells you different addresses, then you're sol. if only one station, then that station is broken. if everyone ag I~ oip$:u Y&E/
2c7e98ff5aef3330…5aef3330…2023-02-23 21:00:40 <phf> grees on your address, then can go to stage two of hole punching I~ oip$:u Y&E/
0d1c16752c7e98ff…cef01630…2023-02-23 21:01:21 <asciilifeform> phf: if yer using N ips simult. (as explicitly design goal, per spec, to allow this) you may well see 'diff external addr per peer' always
a517c1a462dcd966…2c7e98ff…2023-02-23 21:02:50 <phf> in which case you're in a completely different territory, from the addresscast problem
1ee8a5efa517c1a4…62dcd966…2023-02-23 21:03:16 <asciilifeform> rright, simply 1 moar point in re 'addrcast aint trivial'
efc6b4571ee8a5ef…057d64da…2023-02-23 21:03:16 awt curious to see asciilifeform's other inbound PROD messages
499b80b67eb666ea…1ee8a5ef…2023-02-23 21:04:03 <asciilifeform> may have to at least have modes 'in nat' 'not in nat'
6862b311c2ce89b1…c2ce89b1…2023-02-23 22:40:18 asciilifeform restarted pestron, and it's nao phucked:
0604a0c56862b311…6862b311…2023-02-23 22:40:34 <asciilifeform> ' Peer with duplicate address or handle id detected ...' for all peers, kilometres of this
e76762c6e28fd1b4…e28fd1b4…2023-02-23 22:41:06 <asciilifeform> but over9000 annoying, debug log nao ~useless when scrolled in realtime
28a96ceae76762c6…735061af…2023-02-23 22:22:31 <mod6> hey all, thanks for your feedback! i've had hands full last couple of days with snow.
7bb7527d28a96cea…28a96cea…2023-02-23 22:23:46 <mod6> for sure, high-val ascii chars from playback has snafu'd irssi here. when I get a chance, day or so, will get a new client and reconn/re-sync and continue working on whatever probs i've got.
8ed82b137bb7527d…7bb7527d…2023-02-23 22:24:46 <mod6> windows are totally hosed in this thing now, including privmsg. no worries tho. cheers :]
f12454bc8ed82b13…e76762c6…2023-02-24 00:35:41 <asciilifeform> hmm this not received by either logger ?
1d2a69688ed82b13…8ed82b13…2023-02-24 20:22:12 <mod6> asciilifeform: Is there anything special I need to make this work? << http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-23
1aefbbd0f12454bc…f12454bc…2023-02-24 00:58:08 asciilifeform unrelatedly, notices that his AT entries for 3 peers ( bitbot, TomServo, PeterL ) are equal to asciilifeform's ~own~ addr . this oughta be categorically impossible, lol
05e3bf8a1aefbbd0…1aefbbd0…2023-02-24 00:58:29 <asciilifeform> actually, 3 others, too -- shinohai, phf, crtdaydreams, ditto
dcd746767ad9d1aa…7ad9d1aa…2023-02-27 16:06:43 <mod6> This is weird, I'm not seeing any messages in #pest from anyone. Just join/part. Hmm.
49f3344e61d9cced…61d9cced…2023-02-24 00:58:48 <asciilifeform> addrcast apparently catastrophically broken in current blatta
45ccae7e49f3344e…49f3344e…2023-02-24 00:59:01 <asciilifeform> all the entries in question are timestamped today
25f181f69fa436d2…9fa436d2…2023-02-27 18:03:06 <mod6> so, mjr prob was timedrift. set clock to correct time, seems to maybe fix.
bff3110cda87e572…cccb733b…2023-02-24 01:03:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-23 17:41:53 asciilifeform[5]: ' Peer with duplicate address or handle id detected ...' for all peers, kilometres of this
67cf61a22639c226…2639c226…2023-02-27 18:28:30 <mod6> cool, deedbot seems to have peer'd successfully and is responsive. :]
8d17b2dbbff3110c…da87e572…2023-02-24 01:03:34 <asciilifeform> incidentally, 2 or moar peers sitting behind 1 ip aint necessarily an error condition. (supposing that they ~actually~ are; rather than whateverthefuck is going on currently re addrcast)
d838caec8d17b2db…8d17b2db…2023-02-24 01:04:29 <asciilifeform> nuffin in the spec requires addrs to be unique.
d3dc1c59d838caec…d838caec…2023-02-24 01:04:47 <asciilifeform> ( hypothetically e.g. asciilifeform may have his flagship station + a test station with separate key, in one lan )
6a7772688dfd8ea0…8dfd8ea0…2023-02-24 01:07:51 <awt> asciilifeform: I believe I saw this once. if you are running two stations on the same net, or start a new one in time to get your own previous address cast. Don't remember exactly how it happened.
f3513a8f6a777268…6a777268…2023-02-24 01:10:24 <awt> Or if you just restart quickly, having sent out a flood of address casts, you can somehow end up receiving and processing your own ac.
e87a6b2a9d0f84ff…58ea1972…2023-02-27 20:07:01 <PeterL> mod6, you getting hit by this snowstorm? My kids had two days off of school last week, now we've got another storm dumping snow on us again, visibility is down to about 3 meters.
07be643bf3513a8f…f3513a8f…2023-02-24 01:15:41 <awt> asciilifeform: I think your at will repair itself if you stop, wait a bit for your acs to clear, then start back up. Something to try anyway.
290c6eb8e87a6b2a…05f8ed28…2023-02-27 20:09:32 <mod6> Got dumped on last week, hard, almost 20" in 72 hrs. Today a bit of rain/snow for a few hours.
145cf66a07be643b…07be643b…2023-02-24 01:17:32 <awt> might have to "manually" fix at entries for peers who aren't online.
8762d2a1290c6eb8…290c6eb8…2023-02-27 20:12:43 <mod6> We got a dump in January that was like 24" in 48 hrs... and it was wet & heavy. :< At least this dump was cold enough to make the snow light.
29d67daf8762d2a1…8762d2a1…2023-02-27 20:13:39 <mod6> It isn't super common to have snowfalls > than say 8-10" at a time. Often is more like 3-5". So 16"+ is pretty heavy.
4f22f5edbd467332…d3dc1c59…2023-02-24 04:11:22 <asciilifeform> awt: nah, survived coupla hrs and coupla restarts
68f8f45129d67daf…e87a6b2a…2023-02-27 20:17:55 <PeterL> This past week was the first snow of more than about an inch we have gotten all winter, the weather has been abnormally mild. My fiend has a son up in the UP though, said they already had 48" on the ground before the storms this past week.
b11102594f22f5ed…4f22f5ed…2023-02-24 04:14:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-23#1024230 << to asciilifeform , seems like oughta be simple to perma-kill this ( yer station always knows 'msg with $hash is sumthing i sent' )
aaecc0b8b1110259…bff3110c…2023-02-24 04:15:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-23 20:11:41 awt: Or if you just restart quickly, having sent out a flood of address casts, you can somehow end up receiving and processing your own ac.
bfcfb9e5070bcc46…29d67daf…2023-02-27 20:19:24 <mod6> Ah, yeah, it certainly hasn't been as snowy as last year, or as cold. I've got some extended family in da yupper - they get some wild lake-effect stuff up there, indeed.
167b512faaecc0b8…b1110259…2023-02-24 04:15:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-23#1024229 << fwiw asciilifeform was not running >1 station from 1 lan at any point to date
114adef5bfcfb9e5…bfcfb9e5…2023-02-27 20:21:46 <mod6> After that january dump we got, the whole thing melted down to like 3" because of a warm front that moved through for a few weeks. Then, last weeks crud came through. *eyeroll*
4fa904f4167b512f…aaecc0b8…2023-02-24 04:16:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-23 20:09:07 awt: asciilifeform: I believe I saw this once. if you are running two stations on the same net, or start a new one in time to get your own previous address cast. Don't remember exactly how it happened.
5304c962114adef5…114adef5…2023-02-27 20:23:20 <mod6> I did learn something this year, aparently in Canada when they have ice on the power lines they can do a controlled short-circut to melt the ice off the lines for up to 30-50km. Apparently without impacting customers, and takes 2-3hrs.
af1983c74fa904f4…167b512f…2023-02-24 04:16:14 <asciilifeform> fwiw all 6 of the listed peers still showing asciilifeform's own addr.
50ba357baf1983c7…af1983c7…2023-02-24 04:50:38 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, apropos of nuffin : gptchat lulz. ( 'shooting fish in barrel', arguably, but will leave the lolgaffes to alert reader )
14937b6f84ed0f79…070bcc46…2023-02-27 21:07:07 <PeterL> Just pushed one co-worker's car out of the snow, and just as we got them out of the parking lot the plow shows up. It's about 6 inches after 3 hours
6adb91a550ba357b…50ba357b…2023-02-24 04:52:33 <asciilifeform> eh, watever, will spoil: both algos the thign gives are straight wiki cribs, and neither actually answers the reqs of the prompt, lol
ce8af57d6adb91a5…145cf66a…2023-02-24 10:14:31 <awt> asciilifeform: Not saying you were running more than one station on one lan. Just - this is exactly what happens when you sniff your own ac farts, which is not happening on my station running the exact same version.
5cf3322bb9881f83…3aade019…2023-02-28 11:47:36 <unpx> phf, asciilifeform, and other lispers, I wonder what do you think about Sussman's idea on computation and his new book ``Software Design for Flexiblity''. I feel like it may be connected to Growing a Language, by Guy Steele.
94819cfdce8af57d…ce8af57d…2023-02-24 10:17:18 <awt> And the only way I know this can happen is if a station that didn't send them originally has the same keys - because the ac message hashes are deduped.
0e3317905cf3322b…c499336f…2023-02-28 18:07:33 <billymg> for the logs: china's US Hegemony and Its Perils (Have Been a Disaster for the Human Race) and other escalations
22bd378794819cfd…94819cfd…2023-02-24 10:20:24 <awt> Just saying it might be something a little more subtle, since, works here, than 'catastrophically broken'
4676d0940e331790…d0d3eaeb…2023-02-28 18:03:45 <signpost> curious if anybody's done simulations on the smoke coverage of post-nuclear exchange.
c098547022bd3787…6adb91a5…2023-02-24 15:24:21 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform not fully dug into src, but 'are deduped' here means that blatta does somewhere have 'i sent this addrcast, if it comes back to me, ignore it' logic ?
ad9240d24676d094…4676d094…2023-02-28 18:03:58 <signpost> afaik the problem's not strictly the zapped cities, but that the pile burns and burns.
9073f427c0985470…c0985470…2023-02-24 15:25:11 <asciilifeform> awt: fwiw yest. the thing sent a rather large pile of addrcasts (was stuck sending'em continuously, for yet-to-be-discovered reason, until commented out) so may have triggered some otherwise improbable bugola
9dbf275fad9240d2…ad9240d2…2023-02-28 18:05:23 <signpost> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLdlR6kslKA thought I might've seen something like this
c499336f9073f427…ffb873f5…2023-02-24 15:42:06 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-23#1024089 << i have not been keeping 100% up-to-date with the recent discussion around pest/blatta. awt: which version do you recommend i press/run for bitbot?
fa6613f29dbf275f…9dbf275f…2023-02-28 18:06:30 <signpost> seems like near-equator starts to clear pretty quick.
8a00cd53c499336f…4fa904f4…2023-02-24 15:36:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-23 13:44:13 phf[awt|deedbot]: billymg, asciilifeform can you guys update your respective loggers with awt's recent multiline patch?
8bf95312fa6613f2…14937b6f…2023-02-28 18:07:05 <PeterL> burning cities can't be any worse than the forest fires they have been having the past few years, can they?
3e7d4b0d8a00cd53…22bd3787…2023-02-24 15:49:03 <awt> asciilifeform: yes indeed there is such logic. Hash is added to the long buffer and long buffer is checked for incomeing ac messages.
30a64b7b8bf95312…8bf95312…2023-02-28 18:08:01 <PeterL> I'd expect a good solid volcano would do a bigger dent on the global climate than even the biggest wars?
0fec887f30a64b7b…fa6613f2…2023-02-28 18:13:35 <signpost> I mean, "cities" is carrying a lot of the weight in that sentence.
000c0f93dff29ac0…9073f427…2023-02-24 16:07:44 <asciilifeform> oh hm awt , iirc longbuffer not persists to disk ? then makes sense that restarting might cause the thing to breathe in own addrcast (assuming that it not checks speaker)
3a49a4300fec887f…0fec887f…2023-02-28 18:14:06 <signpost> could be limited exchange, could be mutual automated dead-hand strikes with multiple-reentry vehicles
ff458c99000c0f93…000c0f93…2023-02-24 16:09:49 <asciilifeform> ( even per old draft, speaker field oughta be checked, but this apparently not made it into the proggy yet? )
375acbb73a49a430…7e5325ba…2023-03-01 00:49:13 asciilifeform for thread-completeness, recommends, lol, the 'live in the bull's eye' 'solution' to all of this!1
cbed78b5ff458c99…ff458c99…2023-02-24 16:10:15 <asciilifeform> 'The Speaker field of a Message bearing an Address Cast Payload must match a WOT handle corresponding to its apparent originator.'
8f5b445c375acbb7…c3d7f40d…2023-03-01 00:50:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-11 23:55:57 asciilifeform[4]: lives in very 'convenient' locale for that one, not needs to study at all for 'wat do after'
1ca8048ccbed78b5…dff29ac0…2023-02-24 16:22:54 <awt> asciilifeform: longbuffer in blatta is persisted to disk.
6505d63b8f5b445c…375acbb7…2023-03-01 00:50:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: krakatoa is traditionally thought to've'been good model for 'nuke winter' fwiw.
91d3846a1ca8048c…1ca8048c…2023-02-24 16:27:47 <awt> asciilifeform: *actually* looks like only direct and broadcast messages make it from memory into the db - ac message hashes stored in memory only.
0b74cbc36505d63b…6505d63b…2023-03-01 01:04:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-28#1024340 << asciilifeform finds difficult to muster enthusiasm for watching linked film given sussman's conversion to lolcow. (but if sumbody watched -- plox to report)
2d353d5891d3846a…91d3846a…2023-02-24 16:29:53 <awt> So yes, restarting quickly definitely could cause uptake ac broadcasts originating at your own station.
337eb5050b74cbc3…45a7edd0…2023-03-01 01:04:40 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-02-23 phf: sussman was there though, when mit switched from sicp to python for their intro programming course, and he defended that decision with his remarks at ILC https://web.archive.org/web/20090327115612/http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-c
76ac36d50b74cbc3…8f5b445c…2023-03-01 01:05:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-28 06:48:54 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: phf, asciilifeform, and other lispers, I wonder what do you think about Sussman's idea on computation and his new book ``Software Design for Flexiblity''. I feel like it may be connected to [https://www.youtube.co
ea69175576ac36d5…3a6c93b7…2023-03-01 11:22:11 <cgra> i don't seem to ever get any prods or prod responses from dulapbot or billymg. how does it look like from your ends?
cf8fc891ea691755…0b74cbc3…2023-03-01 15:37:46 <asciilifeform> cgra: dulapbot is running a rather vintage blatta currently
0f25b1b85e048a28…5e048a28…2023-02-24 17:07:31 <phf> looks simple enough, but i need to implement persistence first. i'm procrastinating on it, because there are no good ways of doing it
5c791e8c0f25b1b8…0f25b1b8…2023-02-24 17:10:22 <phf> most convenient way to do persistence in common lisp is allegrocache, which is franz's proprietary thing. add a metaclass to a class, and its instances get magically attached to store. all the corner case work.
9ff348155c791e8c…cbed78b5…2023-02-24 17:14:00 <asciilifeform> phf: ever tried 'elephant' ? ( asciilifeform did, >decade ago, was a 1st class bitch to build but did work )
a5268d029ff34815…5c791e8c…2023-02-24 17:19:03 <phf> if i ever need to design a document store for pension fund managment i might reach for something like elephant
4840b74a266f8399…30a64b7b…2023-03-01 18:17:48 <PeterL> awt: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Q4wN I noticed in the "commands.py" file, the comments at the top were out of date compared to the values, would it be better to keep the comments inline with the values so they are easier to keep synced?
689b5749a5268d02…9ff34815…2023-02-24 17:22:08 asciilifeform would like a commonlisp with mmap'd image, periodically wonders wai not already baked somewhere long ago
d886c5b4689b5749…a5268d02…2023-02-24 17:25:44 <phf> mmap'd image will be in a consistent state only some part of the time
7d33d56641e74de4…5cf3322b…2023-03-02 15:07:50 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-28#1024353 <<< picking up from his summary: (1) the problem is evolvability not correctess (2) extensible generic operations may help (a) extension of function without motification (b) makes proofs very difficult (3) propagator architecture unlocks freedoms (a) essentially concurrent and
cd7643b6d886c5b4…d886c5b4…2023-02-24 17:26:21 <phf> because of ephemera, lack of transactional semantics, in flight data state, etc.
551a8cb57d33d566…7d33d566…2023-03-02 15:07:50 <unpx> parallel (b) redundancy and degenracy (c) maintain provenance (d) dependency-directed backtracking
c6707ac67d33d566…76ac36d5…2023-03-02 15:09:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-28 20:05:58 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-28#1024340 << asciilifeform finds difficult to muster enthusiasm for watching linked film given sussman's conversion to lolcow. (but if sumbody watched -- plox to report)
ff8637c0cd7643b6…cd7643b6…2023-02-24 17:35:07 <phf> i haven't seen a satisfying solution to this problem, probably closest is the way richard hipp writes fossil, which c backed by sqlite, but not in the way most people do it. he's got all kinds of convenience functions so that most runtime operations happen in sqlite, and c is just ߙaEɭ9谛_c]P^AQ
b6ae9db6c6707ac6…337eb505…2023-03-02 15:07:57 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-02-23 phf: sussman was there though, when mit switched from sicp to python for their intro programming course, and he defended that decision with his remarks at ILC https://web.archive.org/web/20090327115612/http://blog.snowtide.com/2009/03/24/why-mit-now-uses-python-instead-of-scheme-for-its-undergraduate-c
725ce0acff8637c0…ff8637c0…2023-02-24 17:35:07 <phf> used to glue chunks of sqlite behaviors together. it is still as awkward as any form of language-sql hybrid ߙaEɭ9谛_c]P^AQ
d9c7cd06b6ae9db6…551a8cb5…2023-03-02 15:09:20 <unpx> Came to mind after reading this little paper where they show how they implemented generic operations, which is more or less what ``Software Design for Flexibility'' does in a chapter.
210e2f8a725ce0ac…689b5749…2023-02-24 17:36:23 <asciilifeform> imho anyffin short of the ultimate iron solution will always have same unsatisfying 'x backed by y' flavour
2ce406ccd9c7cd06…c6707ac6…2023-03-02 15:10:39 <bitbot> (trilema) 2019-02-04 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/stoutemyer/index.html << for the l0gz, and for all 'derive' aficionados.
b1d40098210e2f8a…2d353d58…2023-02-24 22:35:05 <awt> asciilifeform: perhaps at some point you could let me set up a station behind your nat. Would speed up debugging quite a bit.
4fa448412ce406cc…d9c7cd06…2023-03-02 15:13:15 <unpx> I am still rethinking the alchemy algebratron, as many things can be added. For example, now that I'm doing some coding theory it will be useful to edit matrices and see the result interactivelly. Moreover being mostly on the bit field, using some kind of representation may be useful.
b70fa16fb1d40098…210e2f8a…2023-02-25 00:11:27 <asciilifeform> awt: would have to get fwding working then, lol
80284bfd4fa44841…4fa44841…2023-03-02 15:17:44 <unpx> But also I wish to change representation quickly without having to call a function that converts it, rather I wish to cycle between possible representations without the datum being changed. Moreover, even if I may see a polynomial as a matrix in some special domain, I still want to be able to multiply that polynomial by an
c04e56ca403b6b50…403b6b50…2023-02-25 00:12:27 asciilifeform baking own pestron, but at his current pace, protons will fucking decay before finished
2d4df0d1c04e56ca…725ce0ac…2023-02-25 01:23:38 <phf> ascii making own pest "i have figured out a superior iron forging method, trying to work out its practical details"
39a616972d4df0d1…2d4df0d1…2023-02-25 01:27:12 <phf> ascii making own pest "setun-70's base 3 architecture proved superior, but i can't fit in an ice40 unencumbered fpga!"
1459a85939a61697…39a61697…2023-02-25 01:28:42 <phf> ascii making own pest "euclid has led us fundamentally astray, some of the late 19th century alternative mathematical models might prove better foundation for my gui library"
4487556009f485d5…09f485d5…2023-02-26 05:00:28 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023836 << until theoretical line-rate pestron nothing to stop a bad actor from doing the same with pest-like gibberish
c9791c791459a859…c04e56ca…2023-02-25 02:13:49 <asciilifeform> phf: lol; but sadly nope, just mired in seemingly-eternal liquishit atm
802f049944875560…4c6161ac…2023-02-26 05:01:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-19 15:07:24 asciilifeform[4]: e.g. nuffin prevents a peer from spamming a GB of liquishit to his net. but it'll happen precisely once, and then he finds himself w/out any peers )
7a570b1cc9791c79…c9791c79…2023-02-25 02:17:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-24#1024262 << thinking about this, wouldn't this be the very example of when to 'allegrocache' etc ?
7eafe5dd75380d99…cf8fc891…2023-03-03 15:38:09 asciilifeform never once previously heard of subj fwiw
87b1105e7a570b1c…8a00cd53…2023-02-25 02:18:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-24 12:20:22 phf[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: if i ever need to design a document store for pension fund managment i might reach for something like elephant
0b5f0ffe3aade019…2629234c…2023-02-26 16:35:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-26#1024293 << wat'd 'pest-like gibberish' ? ( simply random 496byte packets? )
147b6a5987b1105e…00000000…2023-02-25 16:13:23 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-24#1024277 << it's an independent contractor joke. see a pension fund is not like another investment fund, it combines the worst aspects of money, unions and government. so they already have a piss poor solution in java/.net and they need to augm
}W'gNt
c4af74f50b5f0ffe…802f0499…2023-02-26 16:37:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-26 00:01:45 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-19#1023836 << until theoretical line-rate pestron nothing to stop a bad actor from doing the same with pest-like gibberish
836007a4147b6a59…147b6a59…2023-02-25 16:13:23 <phf> ent it and they don't know what they are doing anyway. that's when you, bright eyed bushy tailed open source lisp activist come in to add another unmaintainable shit component to their stack. allegro lisp is not part of the equation
}W'gNt
4c6161ac147b6a59…87b1105e…2023-02-25 16:14:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-24 21:18:41 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-24#1024262 << thinking about this, wouldn't this be the very example of when to 'allegrocache' etc ?
0edf0d4ac4af74f5…0b5f0ffe…2023-02-26 16:36:45 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: are you on a gsm modem or similar? ( seeing kilometres of 'joined #pest' / 'left #pest' )
2bfa043f836007a4…7a570b1c…2023-02-25 17:45:35 asciilifeform saw this alive, but not served enuff time to confidently generalize, as phf above ( assumed 'somewhere else, far away? maybe 'jane street' ? sanity..?' )
c8348f740edf0d4a…0edf0d4a…2023-02-26 16:37:37 asciilifeform loox fwd to fughetting the irc frontend, with this and other forced misfeatures, like bad dream
f6db71692bfa043f…2bfa043f…2023-02-25 17:47:21 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform saw, ftr, is that 'the broomstick fires ~once~', i.e. some early hire gets to 'introduce an allegrocache' and then pile o'shit inevitably built on top and eventually turns into the familiar 'piss solution that then augmented 4evah'
e4d3e852c8348f74…44875560…2023-02-26 19:52:11 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-26#1024298 << ye i am actually, it's normally pretty good but lately has been slow, didn't realise there was a disconnect/reconnect issue going on
34087c76f6db7169…f6db7169…2023-02-25 17:54:47 <asciilifeform> there's a kind of 'anthropic principle' at work, where 'if it weren't a pile o'shit, they wouldn've hired you'
ea8a6252e4d3e852…c4af74f5…2023-02-26 19:53:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-26 11:38:04 asciilifeform[4]: crtdaydreams: are you on a gsm modem or similar? ( seeing kilometres of 'joined #pest' / 'left #pest' )
c015045c65b520a8…df46fb33…2023-03-05 16:39:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-05#1024381 << d00d in fact thought that he could kick off a btc economy by handing out bitcents to camwhores & similar
e640a47834087c76…3b608a16…2023-02-25 17:54:48 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-07-19 asciilifeform: which is to say, in this case, whether he has already had the flash of realization that the shit he is working with sucks because of 'anthropic principle' - that is, if it weren't a crock of shit, he would not have his job...
0064f653ea8a6252…c8348f74…2023-02-26 23:45:53 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: pest dunhave a 'connect' or 'disconnect', but if yer idle for >60s (iirc) current blatta will emulate irc 'left'/'joined'
b874dcafc015045c…b6ae9db6…2023-03-05 16:39:13 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 13:59:21 asciilifeform: the only possible afaik pill against the 'lift it from plane and then drop' reich-engineered volatility of btc is if had solid physical economy , and ... circular problem
9e5cbc17c015045c…2ce406cc…2023-03-05 16:40:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-05 02:08:57 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: man, #t was wild
45a7edd0e640a478…e640a478…2023-02-25 17:54:48 <dulapbot> (agriculturalsupremacy) 2020-02-27 asciilifeform: black holes that can absorb ~infinite effort and still suck -- sell. 'job-creating technology'(tm)(r).
d3ad8da2b874dcaf…9e5cbc17…2023-03-05 16:40:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-02 17:44:02 asciilifeform: there's likely a 3) keep up volatility to maximally inhbit honest commerce.
2629234c45a7edd0…34087c76…2023-02-25 17:56:37 <asciilifeform> i.e. where early hires in fact set up an 'allegrocache' etc ~and~ injuncoaders ~not~ later transformed system into the usual pile of shit -- yer unlikely to ever walk into the door to see this marvel.
1ca3a8571fe2c60a…efdfbc8f…2023-02-27 15:31:32 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-26#1024298 << I think there is a knob that would help with that, maybe presence_check_seconds or peer_offline_interval_seconds, I seem to remember setting one of those so that it would not mark people as "away"
04ab1dbcd3ad8da2…b874dcaf…2023-03-05 16:39:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-11 asciilifeform: actual commerce, i.e. the kind where you MAKE things, sell'em, do actual services for people, it is -- punished -- by the volatility
c3d7f40d1ca3a857…ea8a6252…2023-02-27 15:32:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-26 11:38:04 asciilifeform[4]: crtdaydreams: are you on a gsm modem or similar? ( seeing kilometres of 'joined #pest' / 'left #pest' )
03f49f7504ab1dbc…c015045c…2023-03-05 16:42:00 <asciilifeform> spoiler: not worked (imho rather like dropping lit matches in the ocean, thinking it'll catch on fire, lol)
0909969bc3d7f40d…1ca3a857…2023-02-27 15:32:41 <PeterL> does blatta have an online help to say what the knobs control?
41fdfeed0909969b…b1d40098…2023-02-27 15:48:48 <awt> PeterL: no there is no documentation of the knobs
5a02789941fdfeed…41fdfeed…2023-02-27 15:49:20 <awt> In this case it would be peer_offline_interval_seconds
83b50441a768977f…03f49f75…2023-03-06 22:05:18 asciilifeform tries to remember the last time the decimal moved.
022165735a027899…0909969b…2023-02-27 15:51:20 <PeterL> awt: when I start up blatta, before I connect my IRC I get a bunch of error warnings like "ERROR 2023-02-27 10:26:16,366: Attempt to use client prior to connection"
b183242d83b50441…0e331790…2023-03-07 03:55:13 <billymg> https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-03-05/chatgpt-ai-feelings-consciousness-rights << >> http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
58ea197202216573…02216573…2023-02-27 15:51:59 <PeterL> would it be better for it to know it is not connected to a client and save the messages for later delivery when the client connects?
35527be758ea1972…5a027899…2023-02-27 16:22:11 <awt> PeterL: yes it would. Haven't had time to implement that message queue.
66c80e31992b96d6…0dbda118…2023-03-07 17:43:31 <signpost> also, subject of price. I'm probably just going to keep taking on fiat gigs for the next few years to eat more, so idgaf if it doesn't make new highs unti 2028
43f63cb366c80e31…66c80e31…2023-03-07 17:43:57 <signpost> any amount btc falls is indicative of how much fiat leverage was still in the thing, right?
f7be975143f63cb3…43f63cb3…2023-03-07 17:44:07 <signpost> fuck 'em all. I'd rather be poor and watch them die.
8e8044b2f7be9751…f7be9751…2023-03-07 17:44:53 signpost thinks everybody should try being poor at least once in life. keeps the company store credits from meaning too much.
9c8ab3a68e8044b2…8e8044b2…2023-03-07 18:19:20 <signpost> meanwhile, check out this misbehaving colony
83db17637425a927…7425a927…2023-03-07 20:57:54 <asciilifeform> hm, photo in link is misleading, seems as if subj concerned australia subtly chiseling via adding contaminants within some kinda 'accepted limit'
961ebb4283db1763…83db1763…2023-03-07 20:58:16 asciilifeform wonders wai such limit was not already maxed previously
a276f1e3961ebb42…961ebb42…2023-03-07 20:59:47 <asciilifeform> this kinda thing might sink the entire concept of pre-assayed au bars being accepted anywhere, in principle.
026d4dffa276f1e3…9c8ab3a6…2023-03-07 21:11:43 <signpost> yeah, ZH is pretty egregious with the clickbait pictures.
4b6f1989e9922492…04ab1dbc…2023-03-09 15:22:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-09 asciilifeform: the banishment of 'institutional' scum from btcism can't happen soon enuff.
f873ed534b6f1989…e9922492…2023-03-09 19:14:02 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. waterfall-refill lulz.
313b2699f873ed53…76605d53…2023-03-09 19:25:40 <awt> Ugh. Have finally had a he/him show up in the project slack channel.
02145feac803c7f0…d3ad8da2…2023-03-09 20:45:05 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 jonsykkel: still waiting for pronoun field in addition to speaker in pest messages
590e929402145fea…4840b74a…2023-03-09 20:46:59 <PeterL> I've been seeing people (from various big corporations, including the one that just bought the little company I work at) who now include "he/him" or "she/her" with their name in their email signatures. It is only a matter of time before somebody asks me to add it, and I will say no.
7d557b1d590e9294…7d1c7930…2023-03-09 21:46:41 asciilifeform still not encountered these anywhere, to date
92da69d3fd86b08f…b183242d…2023-03-09 22:24:45 billymg encountered them in salt mines as early as 2019 (possibly earlier)
464ae9a892da69d3…92da69d3…2023-03-09 22:28:10 <billymg> and i'm referring to the regular straight folks who just throw it in there the way they would a ukrainian flag, the first real life troon (with they/them pronouns) i met was brought on in ~2016-17
0b3c7a40464ae9a8…fd86b08f…2023-03-09 22:25:44 <asciilifeform> in 1 salt mine where asciilifeform consulted briefly, actually saw a transsexual ( looked kinda like this #t tourist ) but was the 'quiet' sort, not said much, nor 'waved flags' iirc
434fc8420b3c7a40…0b3c7a40…2023-03-09 22:27:15 <asciilifeform> there's likely some of this effect in play there.
43231a45434fc842…4b6f1989…2023-03-09 22:27:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: there's an ukr joak, 'one ukr -- is a fine fella. two ukrs -- best buds. three ukrs -- is a partizan brigade with a traitor'
a736c26043231a45…977fb594…2023-03-10 02:38:55 <lobbes> the pronoun jazz was all the rage at bank of america. Not so much at current gig (yet at least)
0c42eea0a736c260…a736c260…2023-03-10 02:40:06 <lobbes> my current running conjecture is that size of the organization equates to faster adoption of various fads
9ec5ed74baf04931…590e9294…2023-03-10 12:06:01 <PeterL> billymg: as far as I can tell, the pronoun thing has all been cis people. It seems silly with a familiar name like "Karen (she/her)", but it is sometimes mildly helpful for foreign names, like "Xiaofei (he/him)" or whatever
fdd611649ec5ed74…9ec5ed74…2023-03-10 12:08:47 <PeterL> There have been a couple times I have interacted with someone for a while through email, and then the first time I talk to them on the phone I say in my head "Ohhh, Chau is a girl!"
e2ae216cfdd61164…fdd61164…2023-03-10 12:12:38 <PeterL> I don't know if this is the same everwhere, but at my kids high school it seems like more than half of the kids are "trans", "non-binary", or "asexual", and half of the others are some flavor of gay/bi
56d63395e2ae216c…e2ae216c…2023-03-10 12:15:05 <PeterL> like, they have a set of friends that are "trans boy" and "trans girl" that are dating, isn't that just a straight couple? Or the two "trans boys" who are dating, why isn't that just a pair of butch lesbians?
817ad5b02d543020…464ae9a8…2023-03-10 13:48:42 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024434 << is "cis" that term they came up with to simply mean "not mentally ill"?
4c83a7aa817ad5b0…02145fea…2023-03-10 13:42:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 07:07:20 PeterL: billymg: as far as I can tell, the pronoun thing has all been cis people. It seems silly with a familiar name like "Karen (she/her)", but it is sometimes mildly helpful for foreign names, like "Xiaofei (he/him)" or whatever
60edb94d4c83a7aa…56d63395…2023-03-10 13:43:54 <PeterL> "cis" is "not trans", kind of like in chemistry we have cis and trans double bonds, I guess it is whether your identification is on the same or opposite gender compared to your biological gender (don't ask me why that is a thing, it doesn't make sense to me either)
d6aa784a60edb94d…60edb94d…2023-03-10 13:46:42 <PeterL> the pink-haired types think people like me (you know, cis white males) are the actual devil, since we are the ones benefitting from the patriarchy that is opressing all the minorities (like women, or "people of color")
debcc9b7d6aa784a…817ad5b0…2023-03-10 13:58:08 <billymg> PeterL: right, like i said, cis is the label for the thing that doesn't need a label
d667deec00df42cd…00df42cd…2023-03-10 14:00:35 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024435 << this to me does not seem like a problem that needs solving, and i don't buy that that's why people started adding (he/him) to their handles/sigs. it's purely political, like spelling it kyiv instead of kiev
51285478d667deec…4c83a7aa…2023-03-10 13:54:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 07:10:06 PeterL: There have been a couple times I have interacted with someone for a while through email, and then the first time I talk to them on the phone I say in my head "Ohhh, Chau is a girl!"
fa6aaa1251285478…d667deec…2023-03-10 14:01:36 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024436 << gee, i wonder why
9167f4dffa6aaa12…51285478…2023-03-10 13:55:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 07:13:57 PeterL: I don't know if this is the same everwhere, but at my kids high school it seems like more than half of the kids are "trans", "non-binary", or "asexual", and half of the others are some flavor of gay/bi
51e194509167f4df…fa6aaa12…2023-03-10 14:04:37 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024435 << also, how did you know Chau was a girl? did you ask them? or did you gender them by their voice, you bigot
c136dd6c51e19450…9167f4df…2023-03-10 13:58:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 07:10:06 PeterL: There have been a couple times I have interacted with someone for a while through email, and then the first time I talk to them on the phone I say in my head "Ohhh, Chau is a girl!"
4d73cfd6b88e2668…d6aa784a…2023-03-10 14:08:58 <PeterL> billymg: yeah, I gender people by voice when I talk to them, I admit I am a bigot
d2735f8f4d73cfd6…51e19450…2023-03-10 14:16:47 <billymg> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-03-09#1114714 << fucking kek, "we have the money, unless you want to see the money"
bc84f571d2735f8f…43231a45…2023-03-10 14:09:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-03-09 asciilifeform: '...CEO Greg Becker told clients that said the bank has “ample liquidity” to support its clients “with one exception: If everybody is telling each other that SVB is in trouble, that will be a challenge.” ' lolgox
c9175e73bc84f571…b88e2668…2023-03-10 14:12:29 <awt> "no really, we could've raised interest rates any time we wanted"
1cb1e11ac9175e73…4d73cfd6…2023-03-10 14:14:47 <PeterL> If we all pretend hard enough, there is no reason to admit we have nothing
2c7f01c61cb1e11a…d2735f8f…2023-03-10 14:22:22 <billymg> i noticed yesterday there was a new wave of headlines along the lines of "biden coming for crypto" "30% tax on bitcoin mining" "40% tax on capital gains" -- makes me think they plan to turn the printers back on
152dda3f2c7f01c6…c9175e73…2023-03-10 14:15:16 <awt> billymg: When I click this link, it just loads logs.bitdash.io: http://logs.bitdash.io/ilog/asciilifeform/1114714
b53f3a88152dda3f…2c7f01c6…2023-03-10 14:25:33 <billymg> awt: yeah, i need to fix that. it's because around the beginning of this year i stopped running bitbot in #a
66b424568ddabaea…b53f3a88…2023-03-10 14:28:45 <billymg> i should maybe just do a nightly import script and eat from logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-raw
dbc687c366b42456…66b42456…2023-03-10 14:32:42 <billymg> the reason i haven't backfilled yet is because our loggers fell out of sync last november where dulapbot missed some lines that bitbot captured
6be696b7dbc687c3…c136dd6c…2023-03-10 14:26:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-29 12:18:27 billymg: asciilifeform: interesting, when i tried to import the missing lines from your logger's raw endpoint i got a complaint about duplicate lines. then i noticed our indices were out of sync, but with bitdash being ahead rather than behind. walking back manually led me to http://logs.bitda
d16bd00d6be696b7…dbc687c3…2023-03-10 14:34:01 <billymg> but i could just delete these 11 lines from vex and import the rest from logs.nosuchlabs.com
61e3b4c86a9c70ed…6a9c70ed…2023-03-10 17:38:14 <awt> I believe with SVB you had to be an accredited investor to evn open an account.
7be0b8bf61e3b4c8…baf04931…2023-03-10 17:39:20 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform saw the phrase for many yrs, finally looked it up, discovered to great lulz that he (and damn near most steadily employed 'mahogany bomber pilots') in fact are 'accredited investors'(tm)
f69440da7be0b8bf…7be0b8bf…2023-03-10 17:40:36 <asciilifeform> somehow assumed the bureaucratism referred to actual rockefellers, or at least licensed stock brokers
60b7b87644e8f815…61e3b4c8…2023-03-10 17:42:00 <awt> asciilifeform: Something like 1m in assets excluding your residence.
45de6ea460b7b876…44e8f815…2023-03-10 17:43:27 <asciilifeform> awt: apparently, that ~or~ 200k+ usd / yr
59736df67970d848…60b7b876…2023-03-10 17:46:39 <awt> FYI for anyone in here who might be affected: "Customers with accounts in excess of $250,000 should contact the FDIC toll-free at 1-866-799-0959"
90e0cf9f7f375f4f…c28670ab…2023-03-10 18:05:00 <signpost> whelp, hope this BTC thing works out, because the company store credits aren't looking too good!
2aa5d93b90e0cf9f…7f375f4f…2023-03-10 18:07:53 <awt> I am assured by "macro" people on BT that only banks with many clients concentrated in certain "industries" are affected.
be80e6fe1597785b…1cb1e11a…2023-03-10 18:16:30 <PeterL> recently there have been a bunch of tech firms laying off staff, is this just the next of the dominos to start falling?
fd4b4b30be80e6fe…2aa5d93b…2023-03-10 18:40:50 <awt> PeterL: I don't know how much the US economy depends on tech employment. Always blamed for higher rents but then when there are tech layoffs it's always "oh that's just a tiny part of the economy"
0263a130fd4b4b30…1597785b…2023-03-10 18:44:07 <signpost> the feedback loop is layoffs kill spending, kills revenue, causes layoffs...
1f8447790263a130…0263a130…2023-03-10 18:44:30 <signpost> and alongside this businesses relying on cheap financing imploding
613ffec71f844779…1f844779…2023-03-10 18:45:35 <signpost> looks like it's financial crisis time, '08, '00, '87, etc
11b027b5613ffec7…be80e6fe…2023-03-10 18:46:57 <PeterL> I think it is interesting that so many companies in that sector are laying people off at the same time, are they really all so closely coupled?
2a31913211b027b5…7970d848…2023-03-10 18:47:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024474 << lol, wat happens when you call ? ( recorded voice: 'sfyl!' ? )
11aac1da2a319132…6be696b7…2023-03-10 18:48:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 12:47:58 awt: FYI for anyone in here who might be affected: "Customers with accounts in excess of $250,000 should contact the FDIC toll-free at 1-866-799-0959"
c9e6873a11aac1da…2a319132…2023-03-10 18:48:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024481 << recall, mass purge was an explicit goal of recent usg 'inflation control'
20136196c9e6873a…11aac1da…2023-03-10 18:49:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 13:17:49 PeterL: recently there have been a bunch of tech firms laying off staff, is this just the next of the dominos to start falling?
f1dba24420136196…c9e6873a…2023-03-10 18:49:20 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. move dough from 'spenders' (humans) to toxic waste sequestering mechanisms ('stonks' etc) )
96fd15abf1dba244…11b027b5…2023-03-10 18:49:34 <PeterL> so less people working, not earning salary, will no longer spend money to push up inflation?
9f548562536a3eea…bc84f571…2023-03-10 18:51:48 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-07 asciilifeform: oblig. su joak: 'father: vodka's gone up, son. son: father, does that mean you will drink less now? father: no, son, it means that now you will eat less!'
4f3332029f548562…613ffec7…2023-03-10 18:52:12 <signpost> the real answer is they crush the economy every ~decade with low interest rates, then high interest rates.
c0edb23f4f333202…4f333202…2023-03-10 18:52:35 <signpost> because there's not more earth, only way to become wealthier is to absorb more of the limited pie
b794325cc0edb23f…96fd15ab…2023-03-10 18:53:52 <PeterL> low interest rate crushes savers, encourages people to take on debt; then high interest rate crushes the people with debt; rinse and repeat
8684eb74b794325c…536a3eea…2023-03-10 18:53:57 <asciilifeform> signpost: effect of periodic engineered rupture of the 'moolah pipe' (e.g. 2008). humans inevitably collect some of the runoff, which lizards then collect back.
998d2d1b798397b1…798397b1…2023-03-10 18:55:18 <signpost> look how dependent even the supposed savior of hard money (BTC) became on ZIRP
799a6dca8d07668f…8684eb74…2023-03-10 18:55:58 <asciilifeform> PeterL: savers (i.e. folx who refrain from consuming errything they theoretically could) are the 'christmas pig' livestock from erry reich's pov, historically
648e77bc799a6dca…799a6dca…2023-03-10 18:56:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: at this pt suspect that very few folx have any truck with actual (i.e. 'hard') btc. similar to au.
09afac89648e77bc…8d07668f…2023-03-10 18:57:15 <signpost> and meanwhile those that do, all gateways from it to food are controlled by the reich
9a27eaccd6252861…d6252861…2023-03-10 18:58:00 <asciilifeform> precisely same as 'hardware au' (picture trying to buy with it)
6f7678609a27eacc…9a27eacc…2023-03-10 19:00:53 <asciilifeform> savers get 'choice' of whether to sit & watch while printing press eats their pile via inflation, or to 'invest' (in scams, given as there's 0 else to invest in). either way -- 'saving doesn't work'(tm)
3be2154e6b5181e8…9f548562…2023-03-10 19:02:19 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-04-01 asciilifeform: because the ONLY THING no one can ever take from you is the icecream you ATE YESTERDAY
710d41543be2154e…09afac89…2023-03-10 19:02:49 <signpost> good model of how corrupt regimes corrupt all there. you're either poor or you're hustling along as part of the scam.
ae13a4ce710d4154…710d4154…2023-03-10 19:03:11 <signpost> and how politics preceed economics, much to the dismay of bitcoiners
8d17561dae13a4ce…6b5181e8…2023-03-10 19:10:37 <asciilifeform> and it aint as if the waterfall is new -- operating for decade+
bef15a978d17561d…fd4b4b30…2023-03-11 01:25:17 <awt> LOL Blockfi (earn yield on your corn) which was already in bankruptcy had 227m in SVB
035ecde0b65f24f8…b65f24f8…2023-03-11 01:31:47 <awt> "30% of YC companies can't make payroll in the next 30 days." lolol
f5de0fe0090bae02…f0e83ce0…2023-03-11 02:05:07 <awt> Damn $200 spread between deedbot and whaterver apple stocks uses.
ab8edc2ef5de0fe0…8d17561d…2023-03-11 02:38:20 <asciilifeform> awt: canhaz source for the '30 days' thing ?
6c29d330f8400c9b…f5de0fe0…2023-03-11 03:05:29 <awt> asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1634286688922132481 - ah - "30% of YC companies exposed through SVB"
6489a1096c29d330…ae13a4ce…2023-03-11 17:58:23 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-10#1024519 << is w/e coingecko uses
2240fd576489a109…20136196…2023-03-11 17:59:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-10 21:06:27 awt: Damn $200 spread between deedbot and whaterver apple stocks uses.
de6c6ab32240fd57…6489a109…2023-03-11 18:00:20 <signpost> meanwhile where's bb and shinohai to gather the day's sfyl!
abf72096322b12e9…322b12e9…2023-03-11 18:00:57 <signpost> may USD itself follow the other shitcoins into the dirt
ac9c10e5abf72096…6c29d330…2023-03-11 18:35:16 <awt> qntra headline "Y Combinator startups, known for propping up Silicon Valley Real Estate prices, fail to make payroll as Bitcoin rises above 20k"
04d3bb827e944b5c…d16bd00d…2023-03-12 14:34:56 <billymg> looks like there's been a ~$200 spread between binance and coinbase for the last day or two
bc79fd2cb2d06f61…b2d06f61…2023-03-12 14:40:37 <billymg> possible due to USDC (the usg's "stablecoin") getting dumped on
0dcc67b899e7a21b…abf72096…2023-03-12 18:57:23 <signpost> seems like the exchange rate has to crash near-term if there's going to be a bank panic.
cd21be743660c9a2…0dcc67b8…2023-03-12 18:58:10 <signpost> to actually buy BTC with company store credits you have to be able to get the company store credits onto the fake exchanges
0055bdbd39003141…39003141…2023-03-12 18:58:49 <signpost> after that, USD may resume its death throes
3dad2fd933ec8808…33ec8808…2023-03-12 18:58:44 <mod6> will make for an interesting 'beware ides of march'
3dbb3db2b5a376c6…b5a376c6…2023-03-12 19:03:01 <mod6> im somewhat suprised that von hindenberg didn't want to take ltcg to >40%, figured he'd be clapping for 80%
ee3e2fd7a74b68a3…a74b68a3…2023-03-12 19:14:01 <mod6> these guys are like, 'oh .ru giant mining farm? sell 40k and crash market. that'll do it.' herp.
ce679a64ee3e2fd7…ee3e2fd7…2023-03-12 19:16:02 <mod6> aka '.ru has bomb? np, just crash the U market, that'll fix.'
dbb4e76fce679a64…ce679a64…2023-03-12 19:20:58 <mod6> re: 8-10k, moar for us! make #bitcoin-assets great again!
7a73080edbb4e76f…dbb4e76f…2023-03-12 19:23:59 <mod6> (for those souls who remember the ole p2p days)
7520c8747a73080e…d76a751d…2023-03-12 20:01:36 <asciilifeform> meanwhile in lolbugs in ye olde logotron.
5d3e0ad47520c874…7520c874…2023-03-12 20:05:41 <asciilifeform> billymg: pheature req : if yer bot aint logging #a, plox to disable, when you get a chance, link munging for same.
be3365a75d3e0ad4…5d3e0ad4…2023-03-12 20:06:00 <asciilifeform> (atm these end up pointing into limbo)
5d22377abe3365a7…3559608b…2023-03-12 20:14:22 <billymg> yeah, it's annoying, i just now had to go manually copy/paste that link from irc
90a8d4845d22377a…be3365a7…2023-03-12 20:08:39 <asciilifeform> not so much happens in #a these days; but 1ce in a blue moon, n00b appears, or the like.
b85b2c2890a8d484…90a8d484…2023-03-12 20:10:00 <asciilifeform> ( and mats still sitting there, for whatever reason, and iirc BingoBoingo came up for air last yr )
b6f2bf7eb85b2c28…b85b2c28…2023-03-12 20:11:51 <asciilifeform> aand it remains a hot spare for pestnet .
3aa23f6ea2abefd2…6b163f0b…2023-03-13 00:40:31 <awt> Signature bank shutdown with $240m in deposits from Coinbase.
2e2157132dfdf72c…3aa23f6e…2023-03-13 01:10:34 <awt> Tried to shutdown the onramps to btc - ended up insuring all bank deposits up to ∞
3ee3b4d5bdf4e04d…a2abefd2…2023-03-13 02:00:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-12#1024567 << can't have the chumps pushing btc up nao can they.
8edcc6a04d2840ff…4d2840ff…2023-03-13 15:17:14 <billymg> maybe bot should be automated to chime on the hour
fd36551c2ad1bc23…2ad1bc23…2023-03-13 15:13:54 asciilifeform always wanted 'chime when # of digits changes'
6329029b60e888f0…bdf4e04d…2023-03-13 20:48:21 <signpost> wild that they're going with the destruction of the reserve status of USD.
7c1944bb6329029b…6329029b…2023-03-13 20:49:57 <signpost> I suppose at some point the propaganda that sustains "of course we're not exporting our inflation" seeps into the bureaucracies themselves.
09921aa77c1944bb…7c1944bb…2023-03-13 20:50:04 <signpost> mmt of course being paper-thin cover for this.
7928a6aa09921aa7…fd36551c…2023-03-13 20:50:27 <asciilifeform> signpost: wouldn't such destruction require presence of a better-looking horse in the fiatola glue factory ?
17b9e0237928a6aa…09921aa7…2023-03-13 20:53:46 <signpost> asciilifeform: check out this pleading for example.
4b907d3717b9e023…17b9e023…2023-03-13 20:54:22 <signpost> US is giving it away with this mismanagement. about to print however-many trillion more.
0b4e2fda4b907d37…7928a6aa…2023-03-13 20:56:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: e.g. cn, not printing ? afaik errybody's printing
416456e10b4e2fda…4b907d37…2023-03-13 21:04:49 <signpost> there's been chatter re: establishing a "BRICS" currency, and CN in particular has been hovering up gold like mad.
4bcfda6e416456e1…416456e1…2023-03-13 21:05:21 <signpost> of course the chinese will lie, cheat, steal, but question is whether the world's tired enough of our shit to try out their imperial management over ours.
e6ab88544bcfda6e…0b4e2fda…2023-03-13 21:08:47 asciilifeform not convinced that cn is decoupled from anglo reich to the degree implied in this hypothetical
33203acee6ab8854…e6ab8854…2023-03-13 21:14:36 <asciilifeform> and for that matter, imho the popular framing of 'fate of usd' as a spontaneous catastrophe of whatever kind, is a lol. is, rather, controlled demolition.
b0de816733203ace…33203ace…2023-03-13 21:16:06 <asciilifeform> ^ apparently links go to ??? in billymg's logotron
68cd68b3b0de8167…4bcfda6e…2023-03-13 21:16:53 <signpost> reserve currencies end. it'd be upon the person claiming this one wont to say what's different.
04ce6c2d68cd68b3…8edcc6a0…2023-03-13 21:25:11 <billymg> asciilifeform: is that a different item from yesterday's discussion?
565919efec48411c…ec48411c…2023-03-13 21:18:30 <asciilifeform> billymg: well, with the diff that pest logs also desynced (this has 0 workable solution until proper log-serving pestron is a thing, afaik)
9d1997d53010c075…04ce6c2d…2023-03-13 21:27:26 <billymg> right, other than just turning off the munging for nsa log links (which i'm doing now)
a6033959214af024…214af024…2023-03-13 21:31:48 billymg went into the code today somewhat dreading having to load it into head again, sees comment: # For Other_Loggers (see config) -- "ah, nice, i made it a knob"
008e1f62df580dcc…df580dcc…2023-03-13 21:33:00 <billymg> might need to restart bot though, only seeing its echoes in the web logs, not in the irc client
089e6bb5008e1f62…68cd68b3…2023-03-13 21:28:14 <signpost> asciilifeform: what about the Saudis moving to settle oil transactions in non-USD currencies? also non-event?
18a5bbec089e6bb5…089e6bb5…2023-03-13 21:28:24 signpost obviously rooting for a particular outcome here, fully admit.
ff5f5bde18a5bbec…aca3532c…2023-03-14 03:58:16 <crtdaydreams> aaaand oz govt just annouced a plan to build and maintain nuclear subs fml
8a49abd05096cf8f…2240fd57…2023-03-13 21:36:59 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 3m
6f0e0870ff5f5bde…ff5f5bde…2023-03-14 04:02:02 <crtdaydreams> it's insane to think that people actually buy the claims that "nono, we're not acktually going to put balls of plutonium on giant propelled sticks strapped to these fancy new sinking turds"
666f3fa08a49abd0…5096cf8f…2023-03-13 21:43:50 <billymg> ok, bot restarted and echoing in channel again, also nsa log links on www no longer converted to bitdash log links
ef889560666f3fa0…666f3fa0…2023-03-13 21:48:12 <billymg> i don't fully buy the "east/west is the new red/blue" theory. not that i think china would somehow be a better master or anything, just that i can't see china (or muslims, or russians) looking at US elites and thinking "these are reasonable people, maybe we could work with them"
0d6b0eb9ef889560…ef889560…2023-03-13 21:49:30 <billymg> i think perhaps at one point they tried that, and then the US responded in bad faith, as they do (sanctions, color revolutions, exporting inflation and degeneracy, etc.)
4c36ba9d0d6b0eb9…0d6b0eb9…2023-03-13 21:50:12 <billymg> why would anyone want to go into business with a party that acts the way the US does
f80aa3a04c36ba9d…4c36ba9d…2023-03-13 21:50:47 <billymg> unless you absolutely have to, and they no longer do
1c70bbbef80aa3a0…891ede40…2023-03-14 00:25:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-13#1024621 << ty, worx !
25473ac91c70bbbe…8a49abd0…2023-03-14 00:27:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-13 17:37:42 billymg: ok, bot restarted and echoing in channel again, also nsa log links on www no longer converted to bitdash log links
7b5f56d53b478d7b…1c70bbbe…2023-03-14 15:07:44 <asciilifeform> reich: 1) engineer bank run, bailout, btc pump 2) waterfall 3) profit!111
810174327b5f56d5…25473ac9…2023-03-14 15:09:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-09 14:15:21 asciilifeform[4]: meanwhile, in misc. waterfall-refill lulz.
feaa39536dc9fd27…3b478d7b…2023-03-14 15:47:58 <awt> guy who made a random number generator is a fatalist lol
30f1a2dcfeaa3953…6dc9fd27…2023-03-14 15:51:51 <mod6> hahah, lot of historic accuracy to the waterfall tho
18e156f430f1a2dc…ade1a6f8…2023-03-14 17:24:31 <billymg> fine by me as long as the pump 20x -> dump 80% -> pump 20x -> dump 80% trend continues
c3980b30ceed6c3a…ceed6c3a…2023-03-14 17:44:52 <billymg> but march 2020 bottom ~3k to 2021 peak of 60k, that's 20x
44cbaa50c3980b30…c3980b30…2023-03-14 17:45:50 <billymg> 2017 did about 100x (trough to peak) before dramatically dumping
85d42db5ddb0a435…ddb0a435…2023-03-14 17:50:41 <billymg> so let's see if it can make it to 300k this time from the 15k bottom
fc9805cc3e1a1022…85d42db5…2023-03-14 18:08:56 <billymg> more like sandwich up 2x btc up 100x, roughly
117a1b78fc9805cc…fc9805cc…2023-03-14 18:10:54 billymg still believes over time bitcoin 'climbs the gradient'
760aeed3117a1b78…3e1a1022…2023-03-14 18:03:46 <asciilifeform> billymg: would luvv to be wrong about this, but afaik would require something to interfere with 1 or more of reich's mechanisms for 1) counterfeit coin (via goxpaper), as req'd 2) steal coin, from various 'silk roads' 3) dump (1) and (2) on markets
36d5c20f760aeed3…760aeed3…2023-03-14 18:04:47 <asciilifeform> so far these worked quite well, which is why no repeat of 2017 etc
3bcc76c536d5c20f…117a1b78…2023-03-14 18:12:20 <billymg> asciilifeform: i know you stay away from all heathen pits but from my cursory look at twitter post-ftx collapse quite a few average retards started to realize that withdrawal to own keys is necessary
78d31c5a3bcc76c5…3bcc76c5…2023-03-14 18:12:55 <billymg> that operation in fact may have done more long term harm than good for usg and co
7c3c9d9078d31c5a…36d5c20f…2023-03-14 18:05:40 <asciilifeform> for these to 'pump', supply of (2) would have to run dry
ed6c8fa5124759b7…feaa3953…2023-03-14 18:14:25 <awt> USG is currently attacking alts and has, over the years, given btc astonishingly favorable treatment.
a06766d8ed6c8fa5…1447579a…2023-03-14 18:15:45 <asciilifeform> 'scamming without a license' has been the only reliably prosecuted offense in the space. rando alts compete with reich's Official shitcoin (eth)
670a606ba06766d8…a06766d8…2023-03-14 18:16:36 <asciilifeform> awt: not sure what 'favorable treatment' yer speaking of re btc tho
d14b85237e7a6174…670a606b…2023-03-14 18:17:48 <asciilifeform> ( afaik e.g. reich tax politics treats btc and alts precisely alike )
d957d5d1d14b8523…d14b8523…2023-03-14 18:18:40 <asciilifeform> awt: in eu, supposedly coupla 'btc utopias'. ( but not, again afaik, made any substantial weather, however )
3c8a039bd957d5d1…7e7a6174…2023-03-14 18:22:10 <awt> We'll see how the "eth is a security" issue ends up
f1f17f413c8a039b…18a5bbec…2023-03-14 19:46:11 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-14#1024666 << they've classified all exchanges providing staking services as dealing in unregistered securities.
b3ae63d1f1f17f41…81017432…2023-03-14 19:47:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-14 14:20:01 asciilifeform[6]: awt: in eu, supposedly coupla 'btc utopias'. ( but not, again afaik, made any substantial weather, however )
759f6058b3ae63d1…f1f17f41…2023-03-14 19:46:31 <signpost> they've aggressively shut down token-issuing companies on same grounds.
7b61ed0e759f6058…759f6058…2023-03-14 19:46:45 <signpost> gensler has even said, aloud, "not your keys, not your bitcoin"
c952537c587ac100…587ac100…2023-03-14 19:47:06 <signpost> see LBRY for a recent case where a startup was fucked into the dirt for shitcoinism
dcc3d15146820947…46820947…2023-03-15 03:00:48 <awt> We are being watched by AI (although, not too closely): http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=sa0P
ef2ab24cdcc3d151…c952537c…2023-03-15 03:02:20 <signpost> "hanbot: A bot that was programmed to respond to certain keywords and phrases in the IRC log, and which often generated humorous or unexpected responses." << my sides
143ceaa9b1021fe0…b1021fe0…2023-03-15 03:12:57 <awt> legal brief concerning Jurov v. Popescu: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=s4iJ
ee0c0e74b6eb2348…b6eb2348…2023-03-15 03:24:12 <signpost> I was apparently very interested in the intersection of technology and culture as it relates to the broader Bitcoin ecosystem, etc etc
8ab308d3ee0c0e74…ee0c0e74…2023-03-15 03:24:32 <signpost> poor thing has shitcoin company PR all through it.
ae59c91f5837558b…d957d5d1…2023-03-15 15:05:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-14#1024675 << lol! slightly less hilarious than the previous one iirc tho
a488d155ae59c91f…b3ae63d1…2023-03-15 15:06:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-14 23:02:25 awt: We are being watched by AI (although, not too closely): http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=sa0P
20a31b00a488d155…ae59c91f…2023-03-15 15:05:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-14#1024676 << almost accurate summary of ye olde assbot in fact
6262fec720a31b00…a488d155…2023-03-15 15:07:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-14 23:03:41 signpost: "hanbot: A bot that was programmed to respond to certain keywords and phrases in the IRC log, and which often generated humorous or unexpected responses." << my sides
6d0c9637f750cfde…f750cfde…2023-03-15 15:11:36 asciilifeform wonders wtf happened to dulapbot echo. thing is defo on the net & logging fwiw
986f4911f0bebb94…3be2154e…2023-03-15 15:13:00 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-11-18 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'i heard that ivan won a car in the lotto.' 'yes! but not ivan but piotr, not a car but an overcoat, not in lotto but at cards, and not won but lost'
9a1096fdf0bebb94…ea691755…2023-03-15 18:49:21 cgra somewhat impressed by being able to simply borrow 100yo books from local library (swift's gulliver in finnish + a finnish bio of swift plus few others)
e2c3a4269a1096fd…8ab308d3…2023-03-15 18:51:43 <signpost> finland doesn't seem like a bad place, at least from afar.
caa18022e2c3a426…e2c3a426…2023-03-15 18:52:07 <signpost> well, y'all did elect that young dork that has no place in leadership.
054f3e4a985dd278…9a1096fd…2023-03-15 20:07:31 <cgra> signpost, any long term plans to pay a visit sometime?
02d003f1054f3e4a…f0bebb94…2023-03-15 20:20:06 <asciilifeform> cgra: even the pretty sad university library near asciilifeform has 100+yo b00kz
a447ad3e30535ded…054f3e4a…2023-03-15 20:27:58 <cgra> asciilifeform, was my first try. apparently under a pessimistic assumption :)
8f7500a02d43ffe8…30f1a2dc…2023-03-16 16:28:27 <mod6> They begged SNB to bail out CS, ECB promptly raises rates 0.5%; my sides
2d63ffdb031d1d98…30535ded…2023-03-16 18:05:59 <signpost> swiss national bank, credit suisse, eu central bank
bad2a20b300d6ec4…300d6ec4…2023-03-16 18:28:07 <mod6> PeterL: certainly is non-zero in the face of the current shitstorm
5ac145260446c847…78d31c5a…2023-03-17 13:54:35 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011955 << guess now we know
59d70b125ac14526…6262fec7…2023-03-17 13:48:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 17:39:30 signpost: awt: what do you think the interest rate cut excuse is going to be?
750d38a22fcc9336…59d70b12…2023-03-17 13:48:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 18:24:21 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011955 << do they need excuse ?
7e777ee8750d38a2…6f40c8a6…2023-03-17 13:50:15 <awt> macro twitter is still adamant that the rate will be increased. "powell is the best fed chair in history" "nothing to see here will be old noose in 2 weeks"
87d18d3b7e777ee8…7e777ee8…2023-03-17 13:52:45 <awt> "we have the tools to create the tools to deal with any issues that might arise"
a354571c87d18d3b…87d18d3b…2023-03-17 13:54:30 <awt> Also at long last, permanent residency in CR approved.
22843bef2dbcc4eb…a65888ea…2023-03-17 14:29:33 <billymg> inflation-based capital gains calculations finally becoming mainstream
df5d322fdaf2cb48…daf2cb48…2023-03-17 14:42:07 <awt> Unrelatedly I asked chatgpt to create a python script using the openai api that implements a chatbot. Tried it out and was broken. Left it running and it ended up having a conversation with itself: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6rJw
c8f2f21821ecba73…21ecba73…2023-03-17 14:49:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-17#1024729 << as if ~any of these 'gains' even come from anyffin other than inflation, lol
4c308453c8f2f218…986f4911…2023-03-17 14:49:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-02-11 asciilifeform: ... a lul from linked page : 'The road to socialism via inflation: * Print money, crash the reserve currency, destroy savers, and force them into inflated assets. * Asset inflation leads to inequality. Demonize asset holders and tax the nominal gains, thereby confiscating the real
e0b4098bc8f2f218…750d38a2…2023-03-17 14:50:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-17 10:23:20 billymg: inflation-based capital gains calculations finally becoming mainstream
a5845261943e5f8e…4c308453…2023-03-17 14:50:07 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-25 asciilifeform: re cap gains taxation -- in inflationary hell, is simple theft. 'sold house? made 'profit'' 'now i want an equivalent house' 'sorry, yer 20% short nao, tax'
07455e1ca5845261…03bf0860…2023-03-17 14:49:55 <mod6> everyone was ridin' with biden, until they wern't
410c96ed77ab9f90…a59825d3…2023-03-17 15:35:20 <awt> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=s8nJ << Vox reporter's mind has somehow achieved immortality in the form of AI
4309a5a0410c96ed…943e5f8e…2023-03-17 15:45:36 <asciilifeform> awt: there's an extra layer of lulz in subj ( somehow, Officially, the famines that took place in ru erry ~7y like clockwork for its ~entire history, 'not man-made' )
9bbdd9eb4309a5a0…4309a5a0…2023-03-17 15:46:37 <asciilifeform> 'dying of monarchical famine is great, see, like taking cyanide in a comfy armchair to classical music. commie famine, though, is like puking to death in a dumpster fulla broken glass, see.' (source long lost, translation asciilifeform's)
df35e0599bbdd9eb…410c96ed…2023-03-17 15:55:12 <awt> asciilifeform: was the scale of these monarchical famines of the same order of magnitude?
168397e2df35e059…9bbdd9eb…2023-03-17 15:57:15 <asciilifeform> awt: smaller scale, obv, fewer people (and most of'em were directly involved in agro, weren't being pushed to move to city & work in factory -- major thrust in '30s, w/out which ru would've simply been colonized)
242a097c168397e2…168397e2…2023-03-17 15:58:26 <asciilifeform> the 'good old' famines also weren't exquisitely photo-documented by foreign busybodies.
a8b1c4bc242a097c…242a097c…2023-03-17 16:04:42 <asciilifeform> ru fought back, successfully, against multiple attempts of 'civilized world' to turn it into a colonial congo. at considerable cost, which the folx 'cheated' of 'their' congo never pass on a chance to whine about as 'atrocity'.
053a6f51a8b1c4bc…a8b1c4bc…2023-03-17 16:11:04 asciilifeform could ask why ~nobody whines about the identically man-made famine in usa, in same period, when the latter was similarly destaffing and centralizing its agriproduction. but no prizes for 'why'.
a537c68cd9d29fa4…a5845261…2023-03-17 16:12:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-24 asciilifeform: per asciilifeform's cosmography, the centralization (which, observe, ate ~all of planet3 ~simult.) was a technologically-inevitable, at given stage process.
3f89f412a537c68c…d9d29fa4…2023-03-17 16:14:27 <asciilifeform> '30s 'stalinization' (incl. fdr's variant) wasn't optional. the folx who didn't get on that train, simply got eaten by ones who did, just same as during advent of e.g. gunpowder.
346796003f89f412…3f89f412…2023-03-17 16:15:02 <asciilifeform> ... or, for that matter, of agriculture.
75baa6fa34679600…34679600…2023-03-17 16:17:51 <asciilifeform> and, unsurprisingly, current-day usa (and erry one of its satrapies) has a centralized agro system that stalin couldn't even wet-dream of.
6843e2ce75baa6fa…2ce57c1d…2023-03-17 16:20:32 <signpost> but asciilifeform, chatgpt says that economic incentives drove urbanization, such as people seeking a better life and more opportunity.
d51530b46843e2ce…75baa6fa…2023-03-17 16:21:39 <asciilifeform> aha, and incentives, of course, drop from the gods themselves, nuffin, surely, man-made about'em!1111
418fa6e7d51530b4…d51530b4…2023-03-17 16:23:36 <asciilifeform> famine, fwiw, is likely to make a comeback shortly, the lizards missed it and intend to bring it back, controlled famine was a handy political scalpel from dawn of agriculture.
28ea9554418fa6e7…6843e2ce…2023-03-17 16:25:33 <signpost> controlled famine, mass birth control of the microplastics variety, etc etc
04d0aa2228ea9554…418fa6e7…2023-03-17 16:27:10 <asciilifeform> famine (or even more generally -- situation where children are liabilities / expensive pets) is 'gold standard' birth control.
9083a3fc04d0aa22…04d0aa22…2023-03-17 16:28:16 <asciilifeform> pollution, imho, is red herring, asciilifeform +'over9000' folx -- was born in 'baby boom' (in orcistan, that was in 1980s, not in '50s as in usa), in exquisitely polluted shithole, didn't make any diff
45ca900d9083a3fc…28ea9554…2023-03-17 16:31:55 <signpost> pollution's a broad category though, and might compound effects over generations.
1ab13db845ca900d…45ca900d…2023-03-17 16:32:27 <signpost> but in either case, the inflation and destruction of household sovereignty surely comprises much of it.
1b67865f1ab13db8…1ab13db8…2023-03-17 16:33:24 <signpost> my great grandfather had 18 (14 of which lived) as a coal miner making a pittance, but in a better currency
710f082c1b67865f…9083a3fc…2023-03-17 16:34:06 asciilifeform seen houses that were owned by coal miners, that asciilifeform could not afford even if could save for 100y today
cb55c9d31b67865f…1b67865f…2023-03-17 16:34:12 <signpost> also wife was free to divert resources away from the 4 that died, and likely ought've
065d25a1710f082c…cb55c9d3…2023-03-17 16:34:31 <signpost> yeah, guy built the thing himself. still stands in nova scotia, nice house
b7910be559e907ae…59e907ae…2023-03-17 16:35:18 <signpost> that kind of network of effective men is itself a wealth that cannot be had today
9e10486db7910be5…710f082c…2023-03-17 16:35:51 <asciilifeform> try, lol, building ~anyffin like that today (near some place you'd want to live, that is, with plumbing etc, rather than wv woods), will need over9000 in 'permits', bribes, if can even get away with it at all
940f94d79e10486d…b7910be5…2023-03-17 16:35:59 signpost considered asking family to sell the house to him, before canada went full chicom
4d727b5e940f94d7…9e10486d…2023-03-17 16:36:40 <asciilifeform> signpost: conceivably, aha, you could buy the house -- but not the civilization which built the house
d52c697a4d727b5e…940f94d7…2023-03-17 16:42:13 <signpost> it's interesting that this birth rate thing has happened all over earth. even africa's trending to sub-replacement.
a106a81cd52c697a…d52c697a…2023-03-17 16:43:30 signpost considers this in the context of having spawned. kiddo's going to need to learn to live in the frontier, which will be everywhere.
2002afa5a106a81c…4d727b5e…2023-03-17 16:49:53 <asciilifeform> signpost: normally asciilifeform thinks of 'frontier' as place 'where few people', rather than 'spiders in a jar', which imho moar accurately describes 'civilized world'
7f1e68ff2002afa5…2002afa5…2023-03-17 16:50:21 <asciilifeform> (whether the 'spiders' well-behaved or otherwise)
9b812ba67f1e68ff…a106a81c…2023-03-17 16:50:49 <signpost> absent a huge boom in population, by the time this kid's an adult there wont be enough people around to turn the cranks
85f624c99b812ba6…9b812ba6…2023-03-17 16:51:28 <signpost> will be detroit everywhere, where you can buy a $50k house and every other house on your street has fallen inward
70e9937385f624c9…7f1e68ff…2023-03-17 16:52:13 <asciilifeform> cranks were turning ok when there were 10x fewer. it aint a numbers thing.
12dfa89870e99373…85f624c9…2023-03-17 16:52:13 <signpost> frontier in the sense that mostly alone, punctuated by encounters with savages
d1e9719d9452302f…9452302f…2023-03-17 16:52:53 <asciilifeform> re detroit, reportedly it is being recolonized, and the 50k houses are vanishing (just as they are vanishing in bmore)
2011355cd1e9719d…d1e9719d…2023-03-17 16:53:30 asciilifeform recalls going to bmore to window shop; seller asked 'how many blocks do you intend to buy'
fe710e45929ff52d…a537c68c…2023-03-17 16:54:06 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-06-16 asciilifeform: went and dug up 'asciilifeform in bmore' thrd, and saw that he used a rubbish image paste thing. this was a mistake, and nao corrected. perma-archive of the item nao here.
ad13c6befe710e45…929ff52d…2023-03-17 16:55:30 asciilifeform fwiw bought 0, on acct of not having the gigabux to occupy the place with 'blackwater' to enforce claim
99abb67fd8267cd6…d8267cd6…2023-03-17 18:49:29 unpx is currently in Paris for paris blockchain week hackathon
6b7d9be799abb67f…df35e059…2023-03-17 18:50:57 <awt> Interesting. Chatgpt seems to be able to translate into and out of ancient greek at some level.
0cb41fd1bc35f0c1…12dfa898…2023-03-17 18:53:16 <signpost> ripple's an overcomplicated proposed replacement for swift, not bitcoin.
9ecd7d610cb41fd1…0cb41fd1…2023-03-17 18:54:19 <signpost> entirely centralized permission-coin afaik with bank-controlled supernodes
924df0859ecd7d61…6b7d9be7…2023-03-17 21:42:17 <awt> incredible study aid: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TAmF
08b01e45d03bf9f5…d03bf9f5…2023-03-17 21:44:03 <signpost> seems like it wont be too long before these can run locally without too much effort
1baf8d9b08b01e45…924df085…2023-03-17 21:44:49 <awt> Local AI with the training wheels off would be fun
bff79d27e35c70dc…6f0e0870…2023-03-18 03:33:29 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-17#1024726 << congratulations
ab1ce281b0ea84f5…bc35f0c1…2023-03-17 22:17:16 <unpx> signpost: correct, and they ask for ``Use XRPL technology to bring decentralized solutions to real world problems.''
48ef4edcbff79d27…e0b4098b…2023-03-18 03:34:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-17 09:55:50 awt: Also at long last, permanent residency in CR approved.
6f8b77f548ef4edc…bff79d27…2023-03-18 03:34:14 <crtdaydreams> /me recently applied for passport, should recieve in a no. of weeks
440c3a656f8b77f5…6f8b77f5…2023-03-18 03:35:07 <crtdaydreams> wouldn't mind visiting .cr for a week or two, never been abroad
115e14db440c3a65…440c3a65…2023-03-18 03:41:25 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-17#1024785 << basements are scary asf
7ddea841115e14db…48ef4edc…2023-03-18 03:42:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-17 12:55:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: see photoreportage.
e106acf67ddea841…fe710e45…2023-03-18 03:41:31 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-06-16 asciilifeform: went and dug up 'asciilifeform in bmore' thrd, and saw that he used a rubbish image paste thing. this was a mistake, and nao corrected. perma-archive of the item nao here.
350a8e54e106acf6…115e14db…2023-03-18 03:41:54 <crtdaydreams> rather depressing all things considered
ce6166c4350a8e54…350a8e54…2023-03-18 03:45:02 crtdaydreams wonders how long before audio no longer holds up in court
fe735880ce6166c4…ab1ce281…2023-03-18 07:55:12 <unpx> At least they gave me free swag, I can use it as a pijama
12df9314d28237e2…544d2b76…2023-03-18 19:59:31 <awt> Sandwich theory assumes that Bitcoin's portion of all stores of value remains the same. Seems unlikely. It should edge out dollars as the market cap grows.
2551ae6fde2da5ca…bcdc59e2…2023-03-19 13:47:27 <billymg> i always assumed sandwich theory was just hyperbole, considering it's observably false throughout bitcoin's 14 year history
a8dff75e2551ae6f…ad13c6be…2023-03-19 21:02:44 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform's version of 'sandwich theory' is that the ~0 -> 10k+ transition happened before reich got the waterfall (incl. the 'leveraged goxes' variant) going. '# of 0s' not changed substantially since then, and imho not likely to other than via usd hyperinflation (or if somehow waterfall breaks down)
faac3dfaa8dff75e…2551ae6f…2023-03-19 21:48:40 <billymg> asciilifeform: sounds like holding btc through hyperinflation is the correct move then, since it will at least keep you whole, instead of losing 95% of purchasing power by holding fiat
2be4d839faac3dfa…faac3dfa…2023-03-19 21:49:54 <billymg> and if that's true, then a non-zero amount of people, with a non-zero amount of dollars, might catch on to this as well, creating a feedback loop that causes btc to outpace inflation
39df8c222be4d839…2be4d839…2023-03-19 21:58:23 <billymg> the waterfall becomes less effective over time as well, as with each major blow up more people become wise to their tricks
b31d3f9039df8c22…7ddea841…2023-03-19 21:52:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-14 14:06:10 billymg: asciilifeform: i know you stay away from all heathen pits but from my cursory look at twitter post-ftx collapse quite a few average retards started to realize that withdrawal to own keys is necessary
0c54acd7d0a532f1…e106acf6…2023-03-19 22:17:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: spend no coin where...
4721717f0c54acd7…0c54acd7…2023-03-19 22:17:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 1. ... it'll be taxed (i.e. some uknown, potentially up to 100%, of its value confiscated by busybodies taxing imaginary 'gain', which in actuality consists strictly of ~their~ toiletpaper's debasement)
42f30cc84721717f…4721717f…2023-03-19 22:17:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 2. ... in exchange for ~fuffles~ (e.g. bags of fiat not immediately destined to be spent on durable necessities; plastic autos; titles to 'property' in the reich)
75b40b853def6a2c…42f30cc8…2023-03-19 22:18:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 3. ... when it'd be your last coin.
c6cc7d6d75b40b85…75b40b85…2023-03-19 22:18:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: by no means exhaustive but more or less sums up 'axioms' from asciilifeform's pov
b6ad048dc6cc7d6d…3def6a2c…2023-03-19 22:18:45 <asciilifeform> 'how many decimal places will live to see' is entirely orthogonal q.
cdccac6eb6ad048d…b6ad048d…2023-03-19 22:22:50 <asciilifeform> so far we've 2+y of usd hyperinflationary lulz, and during which exchrate went from 60s to 20s. imho waterfall is most plausible mechanism re why. and if 'even tards are withdrawing to own keys', it aint yet macroscopically obv.
3d8a8bd5cdccac6e…cdccac6e…2023-03-19 22:24:09 <asciilifeform> ( not purely gox-powered, either, reich has at least coupla $bil in actual coin, taken off the corpses of various 'silk roads', to satisfy quite a few 'withdraw to own key' folx while keeping exchrate at whatever # they're comfortable with)
634a61893d8a8bd5…3d8a8bd5…2023-03-19 22:26:06 <asciilifeform> and latest rumour is iirc that miners (who, precisely as one'd expect from hill-climbing amoebas, moved en masse from cn to usa) are aboutta be taxed (i.e. forced to sell 30-40% of coin right off the bat), further keeping the waterfall wet
9e7b5647634a6189…634a6189…2023-03-19 22:27:07 <asciilifeform> to actually dry out the waterfall, sumthing would 'have to give', asciilifeform not knows what it is atm.
d4b3318f9e7b5647…00000000…2023-03-19 22:28:02 <phf> it is also entirely possible that the economic leverage of hodls is <20k$ 1btc, and bitcoin is being propped up rather than down
7c1fcc93d4b3318f…d4b3318f…2023-03-19 22:33:45 <phf> the real hold has never been tried, which is an eschatological event anyway
01cad8f67c1fcc93…7c1fcc93…2023-03-19 22:36:49 <phf> meanwhile i don't quite grok even remotely (chinese buying bitcoin instead of realestate? russian dark nets selling ak-47s to somalia?), why bitcoin would be trading outside of my personal comfortable trading range which is way way way bellow 20, on the grounds that i don't see bit
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750b516801cad8f6…01cad8f6…2023-03-19 22:36:49 <phf> coin as bitcoin being a thing outside of middle class techbro circles
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5b4489e8750b5168…750b5168…2023-03-19 22:39:18 <phf> the wealthiest bitcoin man i personally knew was basically a shittalker with -ev, what armies and tangibles would he have been able to present in order to prop up the price. at some point (not withstanding his hardcore hodl), would have to cache in whatever "market" asks to buy shoes, food and rent
664b78ac5b4489e8…5b4489e8…2023-03-19 22:42:40 <phf> imho the danger and promise of hold was in a both hodl AND economic activity. considering that btc economic activity was destroyed, rapidly, swifly, and efficiently, on mp's watch, hold ~imho~ is entirely at mersy of whatever shadow processes, that have nothing at all to do with some hypothetical gold standard effect
a4cde1d1664b78ac…7a8a16f1…2023-03-19 23:06:25 <billymg> phf: entirely possible they're propping it up, rather than suppressing it. but that could also be out of necessity, to prevent too many undesirables from loading up cheap
858785aaa4cde1d1…a4cde1d1…2023-03-19 23:07:55 <billymg> to me it appears they have to find an equilibrium, where too expensive for pleb to buy a meaningful amount, but not so much that pleb who bought earlier can use it to escape the office cage
3009a2e5858785aa…858785aa…2023-03-19 23:08:44 <billymg> along with continued application of asciilifeform's heat engine process
dd458bf13009a2e5…b31d3f90…2023-03-19 23:02:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
4bc4d7f4dd458bf1…12df9314…2023-03-19 23:09:56 <awt> phf: what form did the highest level of activity in Bitcoin take?
d64d00bd208972fe…dd458bf1…2023-03-19 23:26:30 <bitbot> (trilema) 2014-01-30 mircea_popescu: you familiar with gresham's law ?
e8ab06fed64d00bd…208972fe…2023-03-19 23:27:15 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024836 << this amounts to a paltry sum relative to the total supply even now
fbf59556e8ab06fe…d64d00bd…2023-03-19 23:28:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 18:28:30 asciilifeform[5]: to actually dry out the waterfall, sumthing would 'have to give', asciilifeform not knows what it is atm.
c09350d9fbf59556…664b78ac…2023-03-19 23:45:13 <phf> awt, yeah, probably silk road, but i suspect there's other things. people buying houses and cars in eastern europe, as a not-too-infrequence occurence
34a93022c09350d9…c09350d9…2023-03-19 23:46:13 <phf> but i'm also distinguishing economic activity and economic leverage. economic activity never really materialized, but econnomic leverage is provided by ???
2b2b197b34a93022…34a93022…2023-03-19 23:49:43 <phf> before the original to the moon (the 16k spike that i keep bringing up), i'm pretty sure the leverage was provided exclusively by techies, as a kind of alt-rembrand
14ca40472b2b197b…2b2b197b…2023-03-19 23:51:40 <phf> which was in the mid 1k, which to my mind makes sense, because 300-400$ is a standard usg "1 unit of goods"
2022a09514ca4047…14ca4047…2023-03-20 00:01:26 <phf> at this point i have personally no idea where it's coming from
51b799452022a095…e8ab06fe…2023-03-20 00:16:21 <awt> Some big buyers I am aware of are Saylor (109,000), Tesla has 10k. I know a lot of non-tech non-middle-class buyers go though places like Swan.
c0cccca651b79945…51b79945…2023-03-20 00:17:52 <awt> Is economic leverage something like the petrodollar? Some essential trade that takes place in Bitcoin and can't take place in anything else?
adec9a625c665f51…5c665f51…2023-03-20 01:24:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024837 << this precisely part of asciilifeform's hypothesis, i.e. where 'raised to 10km to be dropped without parachute, repeatedly'
b498a54cadec9a62…fbf59556…2023-03-20 01:26:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 18:29:24 phf[4]: it is also entirely possible that the economic leverage of hodls is <20k$ 1btc, and bitcoin is being propped up rather than down
70c11f34b498a54c…adec9a62…2023-03-20 01:26:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024859 << often enuff some rockefeller will say 'i bought over9000 btc' but no one but him & odin know whether bought actual coinz or goxolade
a6da03c770c11f34…b498a54c…2023-03-20 01:27:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 20:17:41 awt: Some big buyers I am aware of are Saylor (109,000), Tesla has 10k. I know a lot of non-tech non-middle-class buyers go though places like Swan.
d675d93fa6da03c7…70c11f34…2023-03-20 01:28:49 <asciilifeform> re: exchrate, tho, imho to ask 'what exchrate is actually justified by actual economic activity in btc' is somewhat of a 'partial differentiation' mistake, given as the leverage-conjured volatility is a rather strong brake on any such activity
65f75dc8d675d93f…d675d93f…2023-03-20 01:30:07 asciilifeform not up to the task of divining what, precisely, would've happened if reich had ~not~ carried out the 'legalization' gambit
788dcb5765f75dc8…65f75dc8…2023-03-20 01:30:58 <asciilifeform> ( possibly exch would be in slow -- but ~monotonic -- climb through the 100s or 1000s even nao. )
e6319cd1788dcb57…788dcb57…2023-03-20 01:31:26 <asciilifeform> i.e. where it appeared to be before the 'institutional' scum entered the picture.
055137d6e6319cd1…e6319cd1…2023-03-20 01:34:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024840 << near as can tell, it's been some yrs since bitcoin (in the actual, 'mah keyz' sense) was 'a thing' in any publicly-visible circle.
a6c9e9ba055137d6…a6da03c7…2023-03-20 01:35:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 18:38:12 phf[deedbot|awt|signpost]: coin as bitcoin being a thing outside of middle class techbro circles
c3bbce4ba6c9e9ba…055137d6…2023-03-20 01:35:13 <asciilifeform> most of the 'scene' hanger-on activity -- in all weight classes -- appears to revolve around shitcoins ( and to very small extent, faux-bitcoin )
97aa98a5c3bbce4b…c3bbce4b…2023-03-20 01:35:59 <asciilifeform> who, precisely, is generating the actual tx visible on the net, to asciilifeform is a mystery
0fdeac5897aa98a5…97aa98a5…2023-03-20 01:37:05 <asciilifeform> ~sumbody~ is doing it, and it aint martians. but it also aint the folx stuffing a 20$ in vending machine to get a coinbase barcode.
200ed43a0fdeac58…0fdeac58…2023-03-20 01:43:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024844 << per asciilifeform's hypothesis, reich cares much less re the absolute value of the exchrate than about preventing monotonic climb (i.e. where could outperform various reich paper in re being a perceived inflation shelter.)
6d71aabd200ed43a…a6c9e9ba…2023-03-20 01:44:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 19:01:42 billymg: to me it appears they have to find an equilibrium, where too expensive for pleb to buy a meaningful amount, but not so much that pleb who bought earlier can use it to escape the office cage
afd6e48f6d71aabd…200ed43a…2023-03-20 01:46:27 <asciilifeform> i.e. they'd be fine with a rate perma-stuck at e.g. 100, just as the current one in 20s, for so long as it does not lure folx en masse away from 'stonks' etc.
c1a20253afd6e48f…afd6e48f…2023-03-20 01:51:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024856 << back in 2010s, asciilifeform on several occasions encountered folx who admitted to throwing good % of their wage into btc. and each claimed to know coupla similar ones. these, likely, is who powered the pre-'institutionalization' climb.
89738776c1a20253…6d71aabd…2023-03-20 01:52:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 19:51:04 phf[4]: before the original to the moon (the 16k spike that i keep bringing up), i'm pretty sure the leverage was provided exclusively by techies, as a kind of alt-rembrand
98e29cd689738776…c1a20253…2023-03-20 01:52:11 <asciilifeform> ( seemed to be from a perception of 'slow lift will continue as reich sinks' rather than 'suddenly, one day, to moon!!'. )
81ebbe8f98e29cd6…98e29cd6…2023-03-20 01:52:33 <asciilifeform> what happened to any of'em, asciilifeform does not know.
5e6108c281ebbe8f…81ebbe8f…2023-03-20 01:55:53 <asciilifeform> some, would expect, gave up, bought fuffles, wetted the waterfall. some -- not
f3f6cea05e6108c2…c6cc7d6d…2023-03-20 01:55:54 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: 2. ... in exchange for ~fuffles~ (e.g. bags of fiat not immediately destined to be spent on durable necessities; plastic autos; titles to 'property' in the reich)
cc855025f3f6cea0…5e6108c2…2023-03-20 02:44:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024841 << assuming we're thinking of the same fella -- he summed to roughly same ~0 when was rich merely in saecular fiatola, as later when piled up hodl. i.e. it wasn't about the moolah, but rather lack of will to actually risk ~own~ (rather than other folx) arse at any known junctu
d81ec86dcc855025…89738776…2023-03-20 02:46:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 18:40:42 phf[4]: the wealthiest bitcoin man i personally knew was basically a shittalker with -ev, what armies and tangibles would he have been able to present in order to prop up the price. at some point (not withstanding his hardcore hodl), would have to cache in whatever "market" asks to buy shoes,
1b285bfbf406d249…f406d249…2023-03-20 02:45:45 <asciilifeform> ( oh hey, current blatta actually does break up msgs correctly? hats off to awt )
618631431b285bfb…1b285bfb…2023-03-20 02:47:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024852 << afaik approx. nobody knows much re ~actual, circulatable~ supply.
7731ebbd61863143…d81ec86d…2023-03-20 02:49:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 19:28:40 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024836 << this amounts to a paltry sum relative to the total supply even now
9bd4b3ca7731ebbd…61863143…2023-03-20 02:48:46 <asciilifeform> ( the fact that 1 'whale' was able to take exhrate from 30s to 60s and then sink it again ~month later, suggests that circulating supply aint large )
fe223f399bd4b3ca…9bd4b3ca…2023-03-20 02:54:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024843 << propped both up & down simult. like an aerostat.
b67ce430fe223f39…7731ebbd…2023-03-20 02:56:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 19:00:11 billymg: phf: entirely possible they're propping it up, rather than suppressing it. but that could also be out of necessity, to prevent too many undesirables from loading up cheap
c30108bd53fdbd30…e35c70dc…2023-03-20 14:50:48 <signpost> worthwhile to discuss whether there are design flaws in bitcoin which are thwarting its use as a currency. I'm suspicious the issuance schedule stair-stepping is entirely wrong.
659f506bc30108bd…c30108bd…2023-03-20 14:52:03 <signpost> with traditional gold (not the paperized modern system), prices increasing would motivate more mining and increase supply, which would act as a brake on "MOON"
b6d8646b659f506b…659f506b…2023-03-20 14:52:21 <signpost> price falls, mining falls, balances price in the other direction
99c87265b6d8646b…b6d8646b…2023-03-20 14:53:08 <signpost> bitcoin issuance has zero connection with human activity, and is in fact designed to maintain its schedule *despite*.
b1e448ca99c87265…99c87265…2023-03-20 14:55:23 <signpost> https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/stats/fees-percent-of-reward/ << were fees climbing enough to have engulfed block reward, this would be less of a problem. will happen in time, but again, not sure this was given enough thought.
299d0d90b1e448ca…b1e448ca…2023-03-20 14:56:37 <signpost> looks like segwit happened around the time the "congestion" died down, which is to say fees taking over for block reward was thwarted.
3d2dfba7299d0d90…320e173c…2023-03-20 14:57:07 <asciilifeform> signpost: the block reward thing kept (and still to an extent) a lid on req'd tx fees, which theoretically 'good for adoption', or at least was probably the idea
b7d8452f3d2dfba7…299d0d90…2023-03-20 14:57:42 <signpost> yeah, I'm not calling satoshi an idiot, so much as calling design of this issuance schedule a nation-building tier design problem.
21557abdb7d8452f…3d2dfba7…2023-03-20 14:58:38 <asciilifeform> the fixed issuance, otoh, prevented (and continues to prevent) reich from inflating the shit outta btc simply by building asic farms
5317e63821557abd…21557abd…2023-03-20 14:58:45 <asciilifeform> so asciilifeform not convinced it was bad idea
a7bdf40a5317e638…5317e638…2023-03-20 14:59:56 <asciilifeform> miners collectively fighting over a ~fixed issuance, was imho 1 of the few ~good~ ideas in there.
7d50c275a7bdf40a…b7d8452f…2023-03-20 17:41:12 <signpost> fixed issuance for all time would've meant steady and slowing decay of reward/allBtc
4e2e6cff772ef424…a7bdf40a…2023-03-20 17:41:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: what means 'for all time' there ?
424cf8e34201d320…772ef424…2023-03-20 17:42:02 <signpost> if you just say it's 10BTC or whatever for all time, the ratio of reward to total BTC in existence dwindles
1592fc21d0b210d4…d0b210d4…2023-03-20 17:46:49 <asciilifeform> signpost: in asciilifeform's pov, there are serious defects in the design that in fact originate in entirely unsolved, to date, problems , but don't reduce to numeric value of knob settings at all
7c05f24c1592fc21…f3f6cea0…2023-03-20 17:46:49 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-08 asciilifeform: i.e. the 'responsibility collapse triangle' of collectivist failure where there's 'users' who 'just want', and a set of 'providers' who are to supply the thing they 'just want', and somehow they are to live happily-ever-a
5ae638307c05f24c…1592fc21…2023-03-20 17:49:05 <asciilifeform> importantly, however, 'it still worx'(tm)
054b01f65ae63830…7c05f24c…2023-03-20 17:49:05 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046402 << pretty sure we had at least one 'what does it mean to ask whether bitcoin still works?' thread, and not long ago
ee1b32715ae63830…ae03ecf4…2023-03-20 17:49:05 <signpost> if I were running a business where treasury was held in BTC, it'd be really hard to hedge where I think I am in the bubble cycle. these might be getting smaller, and maybe we disagree that they're in part supply shocks.
2c838ba7054b01f6…ee1b3271…2023-03-20 17:49:41 <signpost> another thought would be making the reward decay gradual rather than step-function.
014fb916dc44be3f…5ae63830…2023-03-20 17:51:25 <asciilifeform> btc/fiatola hedging of whatever kind is much easier said than done.
bbbe114a014fb916…054b01f6…2023-03-20 17:51:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-18 14:13:43 asciilifeform: the other boojum is that the hedging he recommended requires maintaining fiatola reserves, which precludes 'pure btc biz' right off the bat
e59bf53abbbe114a…bbbe114a…2023-03-20 17:51:25 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-26 asciilifeform: the 'hedge' folx have an expression about this, iirc approx 'can only make bets when the horses are actually separate, you can't bet on asteroid flattening the horses'
b44ba89be59bf53a…014fb916…2023-03-20 17:53:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: hypothetically, the block reward could've been hardwired to difficulty, say. but not clear to asciilifeform what, exactly, this'd've accomplished.
84142280b44ba89b…54452cd6…2023-03-20 17:54:08 <signpost> and yes, not paying for txn relay, operating full nodes, etc., are problems.
6f3a59f784142280…b44ba89b…2023-03-20 17:55:17 <asciilifeform> shitoshi was unable to come up with a means for 'pay for relay' just as e.g. asciilifeform to this day could not. is unsolved, afaik, problem (any solution would have to counteract sybilization, implicit in any scheme where 'paid for showing up')
30db0f986f3a59f7…6f3a59f7…2023-03-20 17:55:52 <asciilifeform> afaik is 1 of those problems that no one even dared to approach, given that nuffin resembling an approach is known.
ae21bcd830db0f98…30db0f98…2023-03-20 17:57:05 <asciilifeform> ( even possible that it's a fundamental lul : relaying is simply too easy, hypothetically folx could already charge for service of getting a tx into a block, but market price of this service ~= 0 ultimately )
09142865ae21bcd8…ae21bcd8…2023-03-20 17:57:26 <asciilifeform> ditto the idea of rewarding noad operation / disk usage
d721287909142865…c0cccca6…2023-03-20 18:58:25 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024864 << >> sec filings (warning, pdf) Do you think Microstrategy lied in multiple SEC filings? If not does that change your view on the
ee939d69d7212879…b67ce430…2023-03-20 18:59:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 21:27:31 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024859 << often enuff some rockefeller will say 'i bought over9000 btc' but no one but him & odin know whether bought actual coinz or goxolade
d72ca9deee939d69…684736a7…2023-03-20 18:59:12 <awt> Oh wait I see bought here has been shifted to mean bought and moved to custom cold storage.
b2242fcfd72ca9de…84142280…2023-03-20 18:59:32 <signpost> yeah, his custodian might very well be coinbase
3455eae963d53a29…2278cc48…2023-03-20 19:10:07 <asciilifeform> could be justabout anywhere (other than actual coldwallet, lol)
882c77f73455eae9…9690dc22…2023-03-20 19:10:33 <awt> Yes however the question was, how can the price be going up?
7a606fcb460a365f…882c77f7…2023-03-20 19:11:00 <awt> Microstrategy took a bunch of coins off the market and hasn't sold them.
05507088622fefe6…7a606fcb…2023-03-20 19:11:32 <awt> You can argue that Coinbase is selling paper Bitcoin, I suppose.
d70836cb05507088…63d53a29…2023-03-20 19:11:34 <signpost> could be that a few exchanges have not yet succumbed to fractional reservism.
1299f7ad926cb61c…622fefe6…2023-03-20 19:12:02 <asciilifeform> is ok, per reich, for it to go up, tho, so long as later goes down.
aed1127e1299f7ad…ee939d69…2023-03-20 19:13:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 21:44:24 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024844 << per asciilifeform's hypothesis, reich cares much less re the absolute value of the exchrate than about preventing monotonic climb (i.e. where could outperform various reich paper in re being a perceived inflation shelter.)
a04f0ab0aed1127e…1299f7ad…2023-03-20 19:12:51 <asciilifeform> signpost: fractionalism overwhelmingly attractive nuisance, likely (what does a gox operator win from full reserve?)
9b85e938a04f0ab0…a04f0ab0…2023-03-20 19:14:45 <asciilifeform> awt: would be interesting if e.g. coinbase were pwned, and we found out how many coinz the users collectively thought they 'owned'. but afaik to date this kinda thing only took place 2-3 times (orig. mtgox being 1)
483ef4f19b85e938…9b85e938…2023-03-20 19:16:05 <asciilifeform> the usual cover story, when fractional reserve gox is uncovered, recall, is 'we were hacked, coinz were lifted'
5d36d327483ef4f1…483ef4f1…2023-03-20 19:16:53 <asciilifeform> but the simplest explanation is that 80-90% of'em existed strictly in the imagination of the chumps who 'bought' them.
e08d49955d36d327…926cb61c…2023-03-20 19:17:40 <signpost> from what I've heard through the grapevine both brian and jesse (CEOs) are "believers" in btc, but the reich's environment corrupts, so it's hard to rely on that.
e16094fee08d4995…e08d4995…2023-03-20 19:17:52 <signpost> say for instance they're treating US treasuries like cash. lol.
43c1a794e16094fe…e16094fe…2023-03-20 19:18:18 <signpost> or their banks get seized and gutted by the feds
85a73418d4f001b7…d7d21a4b…2023-03-20 19:19:52 asciilifeform ftr suspects that reich.'legit' goxes collectively share a reich-administered pool of actual coin as reserve, which was promised to be dispensed in the event of a 'run'
c03215d485a73418…85a73418…2023-03-20 19:20:29 <asciilifeform> similar in fact to how the remaining fiat banks are known to work.
4a7d9ea3c03215d4…d4f001b7…2023-03-20 19:20:56 <signpost> latter is about to be formalized into fed cdbc accounts post "liquidity crisis"
973782c8ed5799b6…4a7d9ea3…2023-03-20 19:21:18 <signpost> banks will be like domain name registrars, lol
22b0c9ff973782c8…ed5799b6…2023-03-20 19:21:38 <asciilifeform> already were; nao will be simply with less lipstick on the pig
f8d5dfaba3bd670e…22b0c9ff…2023-03-20 19:22:32 <asciilifeform> if asciilifeform's hypothesis (for which he has ftr 0 concrete proof) is tru, goxes aint vulnerable to a 'run' on 1 or 2, but only if the victims withdraw ~collectively~
91609bd7f8d5dfab…a3bd670e…2023-03-20 19:22:42 <signpost> https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20230315a.htm
1f1d3b2191609bd7…f8d5dfab…2023-03-20 19:24:23 <asciilifeform> signpost: wassat? 'swift' minus the pretense of decentralization ?
816fedea1f1d3b21…91609bd7…2023-03-20 19:25:36 <signpost> just about. refactored company store credits deeb.
ab9c40d1816fedea…1f1d3b21…2023-03-20 19:26:12 asciilifeform leafed through the linked www, but not discovered how, precisely, differs from the traditional electro-usd
b2e89680ab9c40d1…816fedea…2023-03-20 19:30:32 <signpost> seems like blockchains rustled their jimmies and they're increasing settlement speed.
9d2c2179b2e89680…b2e89680…2023-03-20 19:30:48 <signpost> would expect this means establishing more control over the state of accounts at banks in general.
781376c58b0596ff…ab9c40d1…2023-03-20 19:31:11 asciilifeform wonders in what sense reich previously lacked control over electro-usd in banks
6dbbd4f4781376c5…05507088…2023-03-20 20:14:25 <awt> In case anyone wants to run ChatGPT in their terminal: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=tfW9
eb30a3a1cc13dc96…781376c5…2023-03-21 15:43:29 <asciilifeform> billymg: anyffin in particular behind this prediction?
fd662a1aeb30a3a1…8b0596ff…2023-03-21 15:44:17 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-20#1024980 << I expect them to start actively preventing movement of deposits in "emergency" situations, and deploying stimmies directly into beoble of walmart deposit accounts
50d8b4a0eb30a3a1…cc13dc96…2023-03-21 15:51:55 <billymg> asciilifeform: nah, just shitposting, don't think it will actually happen
7e5c83b3fd662a1a…aed1127e…2023-03-21 15:45:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-20 15:32:33 asciilifeform[6]: wonders in what sense reich previously lacked control over electro-usd in banks
70bffbfbcb09177b…929e0ece…2023-03-21 15:45:25 <asciilifeform> signpost: iirc the '21 'covid' payola was already direct-deposited
cbd37cc670bffbfb…fd662a1a…2023-03-21 15:46:09 <signpost> then we agree there's a ratchet toward more direct control over individual accounts.
f5c74661cbd37cc6…cbd37cc6…2023-03-21 15:46:23 <signpost> and that's kinda the play, right? emergency power introduced, sticks forever.
8e8bba73f5c74661…f5c74661…2023-03-21 15:46:50 <signpost> might even see account balances "inflation adjusted" and other inflation-accelerating insanity.
7857217e8e8bba73…70bffbfb…2023-03-21 15:46:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'prevent movement' imho is rather 'stuck in the past' paradigmwise -- naodays you'll 'move' yer $mil and, if bank 'needs to', they'll 'still have a $mil' for solvency purposes and so does the 1 you 'moved' to (you, naturally, will still have 1 $mil at the end of the day)
8a99dbc17857217e…7857217e…2023-03-21 15:47:55 <asciilifeform> i.e. they're building better lobster-boilers, not lobster-grinders
89888c5b8a99dbc1…8e8bba73…2023-03-21 15:48:40 <signpost> yeah, this announcement of "exploring" infinite backing of deposits is a remarkable acceleration of the fractional money multiplication.
0aa3ec2889888c5b…89888c5b…2023-03-21 15:49:00 <signpost> combined with banks being able to post their worthless underwater paper for fed loans at par
3a7c11f80aa3ec28…0aa3ec28…2023-03-21 15:49:25 <signpost> somebody apparently reminded them they have a debt to monetize
3b51cc673a7c11f8…8a99dbc1…2023-03-21 15:51:07 <asciilifeform> 'debt' is also somewhat of an archaic word here. traditionally the concept includes an expectation of repayment.
74a2a7ce3b51cc67…3b51cc67…2023-03-21 15:52:22 <asciilifeform> most of that 'debt' is 'debt' in the sense that the infamous 'mickey mouse copyright' is finite.
29b414df74a2a7ce…74a2a7ce…2023-03-21 15:53:02 <asciilifeform> ( or nixon's 'temporary state of emergency' is temporary )
9bd1c9b829b414df…29b414df…2023-03-21 15:57:04 <asciilifeform> the process of organized impoverishment of living standards is entirely orthogonal to the bank wank (and aint any kinda 'unfortunate accident', is entirely planned and proceeds at a rate quite unaffected by whether banks are popping or not at the given time
b792f8ca9bd1c9b8…e59bf53a…2023-03-21 15:57:04 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-10-31 asciilifeform: current usg proj is to ramp down their 'expects' to what is suppliable. e.g. mcd rather than baked bread.
daf4fdc6b792f8ca…eec2bc1d…2023-03-21 16:00:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1024993 << asciilifeform admits that not sees how they were anyffin less than fully-controlled prior (for 2decades nao, reich already zeroes out yer accts if yer on trial as 'enemy of the people', or if they decide you could've paid moar tax, or any # of things )
40f501cddaf4fdc6…7e5c83b3…2023-03-21 16:01:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 11:47:32 signpost: then we agree there's a ratchet toward more direct control over individual accounts.
41ddc42240f501cd…daf4fdc6…2023-03-21 16:02:39 <asciilifeform> what does seem plausible is that the pretense of 'there are n banks' will finally be dispensed with, and replaced with unified sovok-style 'zberkassa'
152a2e6841ddc422…3a7c11f8…2023-03-21 16:03:25 <signpost> yeah, but we're not arguing two sides of this thing
9f539671152a2e68…152a2e68…2023-03-21 16:03:55 <signpost> merely observing that the rate of meddling with individuals is going to go way up.
e6e6f9a99f539671…9f539671…2023-03-21 16:04:50 <signpost> actually if you have anything to rec to read on how soviet "banking" worked, would read
c4a22870e6e6f9a9…41ddc422…2023-03-21 16:04:56 <asciilifeform> in the familiar reich style, tho, where most of the victims, most of the time, 'anesthesized' and neither know nor give a shit that it's happening
fce5338bbe75a0df…c4a22870…2023-03-21 16:05:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: risky to make direct analogies with sovok banking, because money did not play anyffin like same role in ye olde sovok as in the current reich
1431cabdfce5338b…fce5338b…2023-03-21 16:06:49 <asciilifeform> most resource allocation worked by a non-monetary parallel system.
6c3515ac1431cabd…1431cabd…2023-03-21 16:10:56 <asciilifeform> the relevant aspect is that there was precisely 1 'bank', and one could deposit in it and get a (joke) interest. but most folx who had a surplus wouldn't do it (given as if you had what, it was usually via illicit cash-on-barrelhead dealing) and what, if anyffin, was in yer savings acct, would have ~0 impact on yer life (r
001d933e6c3515ac…6c3515ac…2023-03-21 16:10:56 <asciilifeform> etirement was from state pension tied to yer profession, for instance)
ade298cd001d933e…001d933e…2023-03-21 16:12:05 <asciilifeform> 'savers' generally hoarded paper cash (all retail economy, Official or otherwise, was cash-only)
9e2b6c34ade298cd…ade298cd…2023-03-21 16:13:12 <asciilifeform> on several occasions they had devaluations, specifically to zap 'underground millionaires', with their dough-filled mattresses.
87ecf9ae9e2b6c34…9e2b6c34…2023-03-21 16:16:27 <asciilifeform> ( today these are Officially 'heroes', but not errybody forgot that, virtually w/out exceptions, they were simply selling stolen/diverted goods )
8b4e623c87ecf9ae…87ecf9ae…2023-03-21 16:23:33 <asciilifeform> subj arguably beaten to death, but today's reich is slowly transitioning into a historically-normal command economy, where money plays (at least for plebes) a largely ceremonial role, and 'the type of person who is allowed to have things' (generally hereditary) 'will have things', the type who aint -- won't
b873685e8b4e623c…8b4e623c…2023-03-21 16:24:05 <asciilifeform> the vestiges of the old system (independent, or even theatrically-independent banks, 'investment', etc) are being GC'd.
cbb74f88b873685e…be75a0df…2023-03-21 16:25:01 <signpost> yeah, what I meant by direct control of deposits (as opposed to indirect control by monetary expansion). pleb's gonna have company store credits sized to McDs, iPhone, most importantly, infertility.
ae6c86b5cbb74f88…cbb74f88…2023-03-21 16:25:32 <signpost> can't see how policy is anything other than population destruction at the lower castes.
018a8c6fae6c86b5…b873685e…2023-03-21 16:27:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: moar nuanced : infertility for the 'expecting to live in houses, be ill in hospitals, and retire' class; massively subsidized fertility for the replacement '0 expectations' class
1b233bdf018a8c6f…cb09177b…2023-03-21 16:40:37 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1025020 << did any of these sleep on gold bars instead of govt. paper?
a2bc8d9f1b233bdf…40f501cd…2023-03-21 16:34:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 12:14:36 asciilifeform[4]: on several occasions they had devaluations, specifically to zap 'underground millionaires', with their dough-filled mattresses.
7d3950a5a2bc8d9f…1b233bdf…2023-03-21 16:46:52 <billymg> i've seen accounts on social media that in present day e.g. argentina, venezuela, nigeria people are using bitcoin for commerce (if not directly then via neighborhood hawala)
ad776c707d3950a5…7d3950a5…2023-03-21 16:49:03 <billymg> perhaps someone present has first or second hand account of this and can share whether it's just social media hype or actually happening, and at what scale
54f52bb3ad776c70…018a8c6f…2023-03-21 17:46:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1025027 << gold bar was a capital offense ( as were, for that matter, wads of usd -- but the latter were far easier to get hold of & liquidate when needed )
2b372ef554f52bb3…a2bc8d9f…2023-03-21 17:47:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 12:34:20 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1025020 << did any of these sleep on gold bars instead of govt. paper?
12460e472b372ef5…54f52bb3…2023-03-21 17:47:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1025029 << afaik 100% gox-powered ( but asciilifeform not sitting there and cannot confirm 1st hand. stands to reason tho that folx who not even own an actual computer in most cases, aint using actual full noadez )
fcecc10812460e47…2b372ef5…2023-03-21 17:48:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 12:40:41 billymg: i've seen accounts on social media that in present day e.g. argentina, venezuela, nigeria people are using bitcoin for commerce (if not directly then via neighborhood hawala)
efa6e49ffcecc108…fe735880…2023-03-22 11:24:37 <unpx> Just seen a presentation of Linear Network Coding, tho it doesn't seems like Online Codes since the idea here is that the message arrive with errors, but in Pest the idea is that the message may not arrive at all
3d415dc6dd06d8a8…12460e47…2023-03-22 16:27:51 <asciilifeform> unpx: do you have a link to the algo ?
a2e791f23d415dc6…3d415dc6…2023-03-22 16:30:29 <asciilifeform> ACTION looked at a # of 'lubyisms', found that the moar theoretically-optimal sorts tend to be 1) painfully complicated to implement 2) very high constant cost, such that they aint likely to win in re pest, where most common use case is likely to be simply one station sending to anuther, wanting to eliminate effects of pa
1c277461a2e791f2…a2e791f2…2023-03-22 16:30:29 <asciilifeform> cket reordering -- rather than e.g. torrents where yer leeching warez from over9000
06805be299d5ee89…99d5ee89…2023-03-22 16:32:57 asciilifeform was looking concretely for such algo where one could determine, in o(1), whether ~any~ given chunk is corrupted/spurious. but afaik no such algo is known
ef91d9e241017090…41017090…2023-03-22 17:39:02 <unpx> Trying to look up for a survey explaining everything
b2f143fbef91d9e2…ef91d9e2…2023-03-22 17:45:20 <unpx> Also, may I have a look at those that are painfully complicated to implement?
a91ec5a222235cc4…22235cc4…2023-03-22 17:52:25 <asciilifeform> unpx: do you have a link to the mentioned ru paper ?
7dc19d74a91ec5a2…b2f143fb…2023-03-22 17:52:31 <unpx> >Turbo codes compete with low-density parity-check (LDPC) codes <<< oh lol I'm gonna study these
29641f787dc19d74…7dc19d74…2023-03-22 17:52:47 <unpx> https://www.mathnet.ru/links/8d4d294048a738428e9df74aee083e52/ppi967.pdf
81e7529e519fd665…29641f78…2023-03-22 17:53:18 <unpx> https://unpx.net/uni/codes/rank_code1985Engl.pdf << and the translation for non-ru
654d264681e7529e…81e7529e…2023-03-22 17:53:36 <unpx> non-ru readers, actually, otherwise it seems an offense
3a9cac93654d2646…519fd665…2023-03-22 17:53:59 <asciilifeform> lol re the 1980s fax machine quality of ^
a0380fee4c6bd315…4c6bd315…2023-03-22 17:56:05 <asciilifeform> subj loox (at 1st glance) like a refinement of ye olde reed-solomon ( think usenet's 'par' format )
674805c2a0380fee…654d2646…2023-03-22 17:56:18 <unpx> I didn't read it, I just found the reference, I cannot share the slides (yet I hope)
c3eb4b0f674805c2…674805c2…2023-03-22 17:56:56 <unpx> It is indeed error-correction focused rather then lossy channel countermeasure
a8f63341c3eb4b0f…a0380fee…2023-03-22 17:58:48 asciilifeform still not had time, sadly, to try signpost's demo stream coder
b799c3da7864192b…fcecc108…2023-03-22 18:01:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-03 11:33:47 signpost: were I to generate the aux blocks on the fly, next decision would be whether to lazily advance the prng which produces the message-aux edges, or precompute that.
90de835fb799c3da…c3eb4b0f…2023-03-22 18:06:03 <unpx> Rank-metric codes are used for code-based crypto (aka PQCrypto) and linear network coding, but I cannot find a reduction from linear network coding to online codes...
4e2506b190de835f…90de835f…2023-03-22 18:12:32 <unpx> I think for example that, in the vector case, if you receive only a few bits (hoping they are tagged, so you know which one are missing) one may fill the missing bits with random data and recover the message with error-correction.
e7172799010f40c8…00000000…2023-03-22 21:57:33 <phf> today i had a breakfast prepper breakfast, local beans from last year, eggs from friend's farm, deer steaks from last year's hunt, home made bread and amish butter. this collapse thing is breddy good.
eab77519e7172799…e7172799…2023-03-22 21:58:48 <phf> "falling from airplane, 1000 feet in, things are going well by the by"
6e4cb8dceab77519…eab77519…2023-03-22 22:00:39 <phf> "It Wasn’t Just Credit Suisse. Switzerland Itself Needed Rescuing." it's fine, everything's fine
3adc8dcd6e4cb8dc…6e4cb8dc…2023-03-22 22:29:48 <phf> asciilifeform, had this in backlog, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56lE2407Ls and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw7BzjSmuqg the videos are kind of tedious, but if you play them in background, you can get insight into state of elbrus, and the current happenings as far as custom
~A/ f",}>S&-b
6f2a654b3adc8dcd…3adc8dcd…2023-03-22 22:29:48 <phf> cpus in ru. second video with an elbrus gov integration director is particularly telling, mostly by the dynamic between the old school "kids and their videogames, why don't you start a science кружок for young pioneers" director on one side and the "modern" elbrus enjoyer on
~A/ f",}>S&-b
fbfee60d7e374b84…7e374b84…2023-03-22 22:34:40 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-21#1025019 << little known fact, outside of ru intelligentsia, that books were one of the best investment vehicles. were generally hard to obtain, held their value, could be bartered for шуба etc.
d79ab6c6fbfee60d…b799c3da…2023-03-22 22:36:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 12:13:30 asciilifeform[4]: 'savers' generally hoarded paper cash (all retail economy, Official or otherwise, was cash-only)
a48eafd5d79ab6c6…fbfee60d…2023-03-22 22:40:59 <phf> a sparwling bookshelf was a sign of wealth, because was literal bank, many hoarders never read any of them either
024d1df4a48eafd5…7864192b…2023-03-23 00:26:28 asciilifeform watched father barter/hoard b00kz (even actually read'em, lol), inherited the worst aspects of the habit
1a3f57fb024d1df4…024d1df4…2023-03-23 00:27:55 <asciilifeform> he never afaik sold any, except at the end, was 1 of what paid for the plane tickets
1017a78d1a3f57fb…1a3f57fb…2023-03-23 00:29:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-22#1025069 << wonder whether it's about the 'real' elbrus or the sparc-elbrus. ('dead end' describes imho both, lol). will need to actually watch the tape to find out, i suppose
dd5253bc1017a78d…d79ab6c6…2023-03-23 00:30:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-22 18:31:11 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: asciilifeform, had this in backlog, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56lE2407Ls and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw7BzjSmuqg the videos are kind of tedious, but if you play them in background, you can get insight into state of elbrus, and the current happenin
eb95535edd5253bc…1017a78d…2023-03-23 00:32:03 asciilifeform mostly forgot about the subj after barfing re ~100%-undoc'd (safe to presume -- to conceal that ~99% of the supporting silicon was licensed from taiwan, and 100% -- baked there) retail elbrus
a10bbed9eb95535e…eb95535e…2023-03-23 00:37:59 asciilifeform recalls naively thinking along lines 'hm, maybe they'll bake not only cpu but proper os and prove that you dun need nanometre scale, micrometre moar than suffices if yer programmers not morons' etc
d05d8e70a10bbed9…a10bbed9…2023-03-23 00:39:55 asciilifeform arguably was 'behind the times' re technopolitical landscape of current-day ru. where no one, evidently, who even vaguely wants such a thing, lives, or has for decades.
b1c6ab13d05d8e70…0c42eea0…2023-03-23 01:52:48 <lobbes> aw geeze, in other noose: https://archive.is/7gFwN
f374d1f6b1c6ab13…b1c6ab13…2023-03-23 01:52:53 <lobbes> dude was found innocent, but was liquidated by 'the longhouse' before trial even started
783d2525f374d1f6…dd5253bc…2023-03-23 01:54:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-21 09:05:41 awt: Introducing the Longhouse into the logs for the record.
7b839719783d2525…d05d8e70…2023-03-23 01:56:40 <asciilifeform> lobbes: loox liek d00d broke the vow of celibacy movie makers apparently have to take in usa. defrocked.
b9815a307b839719…010f40c8…2023-03-23 13:56:32 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-22#1025449 <<< I'm curious about the meaning of ``lubyisms'' and any resource that was ``painfully complicated to implement''
f72f0d93b9815a30…b792f8ca…2023-03-23 13:56:34 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-22 12:30:29 asciilifeform: looked at a # of 'lubyisms', found that the moar theoretically-optimal sorts tend to be 1) painfully complicated to implement 2) very high constant cost, such that they aint likely to win in re pest, where most common use case is likely to be simply one station sending to anuthe
3f32018df72f0d93…b9815a30…2023-03-23 14:31:13 <unpx> And are there any stats on loss rate? Because I guess the encoding shall be calibrated based on that
68f6e0553f32018d…7b839719…2023-03-23 14:44:50 <asciilifeform> unpx: atm seems that most packet loss happens on the segment of pipe nearest to people's desks (e.g. phf seems to have a high-loss connection at his station) and so aint remotely 'same for erryone'
3bba2b7468f6e055…68f6e055…2023-03-23 14:46:22 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025086 << 1st such code asciilifeform looked at (and invited other folx to do so) was the luby transform
5bfb2b003bba2b74…783d2525…2023-03-23 14:47:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 09:57:54 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-22#1025449 <<< I'm curious about the meaning of ``lubyisms'' and any resource that was ``painfully complicated to implement''
9d7f96c85bfb2b00…f72f0d93…2023-03-23 14:46:29 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-22 12:30:29 asciilifeform: looked at a # of 'lubyisms', found that the moar theoretically-optimal sorts tend to be 1) painfully complicated to implement 2) very high constant cost, such that they aint likely to win in re pest, where most common use case is likely to be simply one station sending to anuthe
31f05aed9d7f96c8…861702e4…2023-03-23 14:51:40 <PeterL> Is "lubyism" a term used by other people across the industry or is that just something we use here for this type of thing?
2ac88d1031f05aed…3bba2b74…2023-03-23 14:52:10 <asciilifeform> PeterL: afaik there's no traditional term that fully covers the subj
146a53e02ac88d10…2ac88d10…2023-03-23 14:52:59 <asciilifeform> 'fountain codes' is prolly the nearest
941a5022146a53e0…3f32018d…2023-03-23 15:10:57 <unpx> I missed how simple it is to use MDS error-correcting codes as erasure codes. So afaik what we are looking for is something that does not require heavy decoding (e.g. Gaussian elimination ~O(n^3)).
6d29c97d941a5022…ae6c86b5…2023-03-23 16:00:39 <signpost> unpx: decoding is of linear complexity in the one I wrote
e1da9c0b66ece66b…66ece66b…2023-03-23 16:03:42 <signpost> it would be a good use of time to at least say why that encoding scheme is unsuitable rather than just reaching for another.
ce7efd8fe1da9c0b…e1da9c0b…2023-03-23 16:04:28 signpost intends to find his way back to writing it in a language with saner parallelism soon. possibly via the WIP common lisp one I've got going.
4be82ae5ce7efd8f…146a53e0…2023-03-23 17:04:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: can plz post a link to your most recent prototype of that thing? ( asciilifeform was digging in logs, not found for sumreason )
01edfc4a4be82ae5…ce7efd8f…2023-03-23 17:05:43 <signpost> https://trinque.org/2023/01/18/ocpy_squirt_slurp/
85dc7968ee292d71…e7407c2a…2023-03-23 17:14:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: (maybe someone already pointed out?) the genesis doesn't press as given, on acct of weirdness with file paths ( --- null/manifest false +++ ocpy/manifest c810...... )
9c60211e85dc7968…ee292d71…2023-03-23 17:19:39 <signpost> not sure, works over here http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=lTUo
1d3a1924972b8c8e…85dc7968…2023-03-23 17:20:57 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform sees . ( which vtron was signpost using ? )
cd58c20f1d3a1924…972b8c8e…2023-03-23 17:23:06 <signpost> this lineage as built by pentacle, iirc phf's plus work by bvt and possibly others
de655bd5cd58c20f…cd58c20f…2023-03-23 17:23:32 <signpost> yeah phf is right there in the filenames, derp
ed7ca6e8d8c2ff54…de655bd5…2023-03-23 17:25:07 <signpost> all I modified of v.sh was making WOTDIR, PATCHDIR, and SEALDIR env vars so I could aim the thing from pbuild
923780bbed7ca6e8…ed7ca6e8…2023-03-23 17:25:54 signpost really owes a pentacle website since whole point was eliminating per-desk toolchain ??? of this kind
8418631a923780bb…d8c2ff54…2023-03-23 17:26:49 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in sumthing completely different: this d00d apparently still in biz, sweating to bake own FG ( complains about 'unreadable schematics' and 'missing BOM', lol, could've asked? it ai
194240b48418631a…9d7f96c8…2023-03-23 17:27:45 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-20 asciilifeform: last asciilifeform knew, jfw et al's kit made FG look like 'bestseller' in comparison; but whoknows, maybe nao finally rich&famous...
290c5d75194240b4…2d65788e…2023-03-23 17:28:09 <signpost> guy stinks of inherited "how to make a million out of ten million"
abe60b02290c5d75…31bd0092…2023-03-23 17:28:50 <asciilifeform> iirc d00d had an ee diploma. ought've been done in a week after starting, lol
bad625e8abe60b02…abe60b02…2023-03-23 17:30:01 <asciilifeform> could've made own faster design, would've fit in with his ' asciilifeform's wares such shite! ' push. but instead this.
411ba6e9ca93c3b6…ca93c3b6…2023-03-23 17:37:39 asciilifeform mind boggles, not sure how the recipe could've been made any easier.
494f33b4411ba6e9…411ba6e9…2023-03-23 17:39:46 <asciilifeform> 'I admit I don't yet fully understand why it's done the way it is, especially what the second comparator stage is doing and what considerations govern the particular choices of component values.'
47f8585f494f33b4…494f33b4…2023-03-23 17:41:01 <asciilifeform> ... wainot crack a b00k ? or at least breadboard the thing (it worx a++ on breadboard) and fiddle empirically ? but mno, gotta go straight to baking pile of smt boards ? nfi
882bc21247f8585f…31f05aed…2023-03-23 17:42:50 <PeterL> The thing reads like it is something he invented (no link to asciilifeform's page abou the thing?), but then he has that line you just quoted where he admits he does not know why it was done the way it was
7e3eab91549e6574…290c5d75…2023-03-23 17:43:08 <signpost> yeah but he shows how to light an LED at the end; what do you want?!
d5e5f4667e3eab91…47f8585f…2023-03-23 17:43:30 <asciilifeform> PeterL: does say 'reproduce design' but lulzily with no link to, y'know, the page with the schematics etc
11265ebf7e3eab91…27654563…2023-03-23 17:47:49 <asciilifeform> d00d had... 4+y (!!) since 1st proclaimed 'fuckyou, i'ma make own rng'
403b392e11265ebf…11265ebf…2023-03-23 17:49:11 asciilifeform naively actually expected that he would. esp. considering that asciilifeform littered the l0gz with over9000 tips re places to improve in the original
49f7fb35403b392e…403b392e…2023-03-23 17:51:33 <asciilifeform> 'the bad dancer is hindered by his own arse'(tm)(r)(j00 proverb)
17856ed949f7fb35…49f7fb35…2023-03-23 17:56:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025118 << bbut, biznisman! not dirty sarariman! etc
c549a58817856ed9…5bfb2b00…2023-03-23 17:58:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 13:29:32 signpost: guy stinks of inherited "how to make a million out of ten million"
3fa4c96fc549a588…17856ed9…2023-03-23 17:58:39 <asciilifeform> could've, say, hired some chinese d00d who stayed awake in school? but mno. 'i'ma figure out with my 20$ scope!' etc
38da3a373fa4c96f…3fa4c96f…2023-03-23 17:59:42 <asciilifeform> ( not even speaking of 'could've asked right here', can picture that aint an option in his head )
22ce4d1038da3a37…38da3a37…2023-03-23 18:03:31 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in other mega-titans of industry.
f148f4b622ce4d10…22ce4d10…2023-03-23 18:12:19 asciilifeform wonders re wtf concretely happens to the brains of the '10 $mil' folx. almost seems as if at certain magick threshhold in pile of dough, people become functionally retarded?!
1d1512cff148f4b6…f148f4b6…2023-03-23 18:12:59 <asciilifeform> ... possibly simply substance abuse ? nfi
34fbbcad1d1512cf…194240b4…2023-03-23 18:12:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-02-04 asciilifeform: or, for that matter, his (admitted!) cocaine. imho still shows typical effects, even tho supposedly quit.
5dc55d5534fbbcad…1d1512cf…2023-03-23 18:14:17 <asciilifeform> e.g. at 1e9+$, evidently, one goes and buys twatter.
bd5e838a5dc55d55…5dc55d55…2023-03-23 18:16:21 <asciilifeform> or remember this d00d, at, dunno, 1e7+$ took up shitcoins etc
404e7c66bd5e838a…bd5e838a…2023-03-23 18:38:57 asciilifeform suspects: moolah unlocks latent narcissism, as lsd supposedly sometimes unlocks schizo. fella who conceives of self as 'aristocrat' will burn piles of dough for ~nuffin, but feel great bragging about how it is over9000x what plebe makes in lifetime
0bda2f8b404e7c66…34fbbcad…2023-03-23 18:38:57 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-08-29 kanzure: nmz787 took an electron microscope. the gigascope never materialized though.
ce6ae14e0bda2f8b…404e7c66…2023-03-23 18:40:27 <asciilifeform> with conceit of 'aristocrat' comes the 'aristotelian' contempt for productive labour
bc5215f0ce6ae14e…0bda2f8b…2023-03-23 18:40:27 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:20:10 asciilifeform[busybot]: sees the 'aristotelian' cosmography as product of 'thug aint happy to simply dominate others, needs to believe that he is chosen by gods'. ditto the dimwit, not happy to simply dominate via numbers, but 'hephaestus has to be a cripple and cuck'
8fd648a9bc5215f0…bc5215f0…2023-03-23 18:40:27 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-10-30 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-30#1948740 << right, the only trooly intentional act is to sit in cafe and smoke cigar made of benjies. whereas to try an' sew some sorta usable purse outta 30 yrs of 'tech market' sow's ear , is what furniture does. ( at least mp_en_viaje i
c77791f28fd648a9…ce6ae14e…2023-03-23 18:41:40 <asciilifeform> ... not to mention, failure -- no longer stings, can piss away 1e6$ and still think of self as 'great biznisman'
4c6cb35cc77791f2…c77791f2…2023-03-23 18:41:56 <asciilifeform> bankman, 'hero' of the current generation, famously: 'i would never consider reading a book'
37faec684c6cb35c…4c6cb35c…2023-03-23 18:43:26 <asciilifeform> ( opening b00k, for these folx -- hurts! might stumble across sumthing that takes actual effort, and 'no longer feel like genius' )
ce2c37ee37faec68…7e3eab91…2023-03-23 19:41:42 <signpost> value's inverted at the lowest of levels in this empire. only sound you can hear is the chaotic whoosh down the drain.
b8f20075ce2c37ee…ce2c37ee…2023-03-23 19:41:57 <signpost> everyone's personal interest as he sees it is aligned with activity that accelerates it.
e57b5523c12c956f…dd62ac3a…2023-03-23 19:45:10 signpost still thinks one of the cardinal sins of tmsr was impatience, rather than arrogance/delusion.
044cc0f2e57b5523…e57b5523…2023-03-23 19:49:22 <signpost> in related sandwich prices, gold popped above $2k today. feds probably "selling" paper like mad.
2aa4a03f044cc0f2…044cc0f2…2023-03-23 19:52:05 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-19#1024859 << apparently his cost basis is approx $30k.
7321c2842aa4a03f…c549a588…2023-03-23 19:53:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 20:17:41 awt: Some big buyers I am aware of are Saylor (109,000), Tesla has 10k. I know a lot of non-tech non-middle-class buyers go though places like Swan.
2234a82c7321c284…2aa4a03f…2023-03-23 19:52:32 <signpost> the apparent lack of attacks on Saylor is suspicious as all hell imho.
84bd9cf42234a82c…2234a82c…2023-03-23 19:53:26 signpost still thinks he might be part of the usg hodl. he's holding one hell of a sell-bomb.
cd86079384bd9cf4…37faec68…2023-03-23 20:30:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: they never seem to lack a sell bomb when need one ( given as it's rechargeable )
c713c28fcd860793…8fd648a9…2023-03-23 20:30:03 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
2fddbf32c713c28f…cd860793…2023-03-23 20:33:49 <asciilifeform> on the rare occasions when plebes buy actual (i.e. on chain) btc, it finds, like clockwork, its way back into the 'bomber' (via 'silk roads', via shitcoin 'ico's, etc) , from which dropped again, ad infinitum.
4e8b9b5d2fddbf32…2fddbf32…2023-03-23 20:35:05 <asciilifeform> (and for that matter, miners are stuck selling some large % of their take ~immediately.)
d5ed188fd5a263b9…7321c284…2023-03-23 20:37:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 18:27:40 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: and latest rumour is iirc that miners (who, precisely as one'd expect from hill-climbing amoebas, moved en masse from cn to usa) are aboutta be taxed (i.e. forced to sell 30-40% of coin right off the bat), further keeping the waterfall wet
8bb6a0a9d5ed188f…9d72b05e…2023-03-23 21:01:18 <awt> Saylor was sued for back taxes in DC recently, if that counts.
9dfa6fe58bb6a0a9…d5a263b9…2023-03-23 21:16:48 asciilifeform not knows the story of saylor, except in context of l0gz, i.e. presumably a rockefeller type who bragged about btc hodl
3a6615fd9dfa6fe5…941a5022…2023-03-24 09:08:50 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025099 <<< I didn't want to say I have a better solution, I'm just looking around
7a7f11723a6615fd…d5ed188f…2023-03-24 09:10:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 12:05:05 signpost: it would be a good use of time to at least say why that encoding scheme is unsuitable rather than just reaching for another.
36057e787a7f1172…00000000…2023-03-24 14:25:33 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025110 << man vtools is what ultimately soured me on the whole community public work. for the amount of precise effort that went into the project, it ended up constantly being treated as "oh, yeah, there's that code there that we all rely on that somebody built"
efc5842936057e78…7a7f1172…2023-03-24 14:26:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 13:25:04 signpost: yeah phf is right there in the filenames, derp
f749d742efc58429…84bd9cf4…2023-03-24 14:28:54 <signpost> hey, I knew you did it, just didn't recall how much others had added later.
1cdd4d16f749d742…f749d742…2023-03-24 14:29:46 <signpost> my ability to remember things is no reflection on the notability of others.
5f26507eb2d5f9e8…36057e78…2023-03-24 14:32:05 <phf> but i just noticed, where's that vsh bit comes from?
b3d4b2938bd6c2ce…8bd6c2ce…2023-03-24 14:34:26 <signpost> I used it because it works with the busybox shell, didn't have to add python or a lisp to core pentacle deps
251e3e20b3d4b293…b3d4b293…2023-03-24 14:34:53 signpost took pains to plod outward from gcc only as strictly necessary
d54d7b04251e3e20…5f26507e…2023-03-24 14:35:25 <phf> oh, i'm just curious what that even is, and how meaty it is, and whether i need to integrate it into my stack
99bfe3abd54d7b04…d54d7b04…2023-03-24 14:36:32 <phf> i think i might've stopped paying attention at some point, but i was keeping vpatches up to date to whatever was being released. smh missed the whole vsh track, and it looks like "bvt-trace.net" is down
1b39aba16e547ead…ad776c70…2023-03-24 14:47:17 <billymg> phf: asciilifeform ended up mirroring bvt-trace.net here http://dulap.xyz/pub/mirrors/bvt-trace.net/
deb51a4d1b39aba1…6e547ead…2023-03-24 14:40:05 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-22#1025077 << title is intentionally "spicy". the guy is some kind of ru elbrus hobbyist, but the videos are interesting for occassional throwaway phrases, and side comments, which paint clear picture of state of things. it doesn't present anything new, just a complete picture.
a1f0cfa5deb51a4d…efc58429…2023-03-24 14:41:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-22 20:30:55 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-22#1025069 << wonder whether it's about the 'real' elbrus or the sparc-elbrus. ('dead end' describes imho both, lol). will need to actually watch the tape to find out, i suppose
8ba894eea1f0cfa5…deb51a4d…2023-03-24 14:43:24 <phf> elbrus parent company locked themselves into "we can't tell you that, and you must burn this email on receipt" model in the early 90s, as an obv transition from su model, units are small batch produced for $$$$, there's no gov funding and it's not even clear if that shit's being us 3y=c
w< =
2222c9118ba894ee…8ba894ee…2023-03-24 14:43:24 <phf> ed in mil, they work around gpl by making you sign nda before you can even get linux for it, effectively export limited tech, etc. 3y=c
w< =
7cb242682222c911…251e3e20…2023-03-24 14:44:22 <signpost> phf: wget -r -np https://trinque.org/src/pentacle/v/vtools/ << should do it
4c4df2a27cb24268…7cb24268…2023-03-24 14:44:46 <signpost> all v trees I've collected into pentacle are in there
492b3faa4c4df2a2…4c4df2a2…2023-03-24 14:45:05 <signpost> and I'm in between projects over here so I'm gonna go ahead and work on a webpage for pentacle today
4aad3ac8492b3faa…492b3faa…2023-03-24 14:45:31 <signpost> thing nicely bootstraps a gcc/gnat and then builds all our other shit atop that.
2ca261374aad3ac8…4aad3ac8…2023-03-24 14:46:19 <signpost> really wanted to stop losing things to sands of time.
9f05ceba2ca26137…2222c911…2023-03-24 14:50:19 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025138 << afaiu millions were locked in mp's wallet
e4798af09f05ceba…a1f0cfa5…2023-03-24 14:51:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 14:13:42 asciilifeform[4]: wonders re wtf concretely happens to the brains of the '10 $mil' folx. almost seems as if at certain magick threshhold in pile of dough, people become functionally retarded?!
028c3db6e4798af0…9f05ceba…2023-03-24 14:52:50 <phf> there were detailed reflections on subj here http://ossasepia.com/2022/10/19/the-needed-cut/ in fact i think we discussed it in logs also
eff3226de4798af0…9dfa6fe5…2023-03-24 14:58:24 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform not presumed that 'culprit' there was mp's buried treasure.
fd8239c1eff3226d…028c3db6…2023-03-24 14:59:39 <phf> i meant that presumed millions there were s.mg iou's, rather than concrete coin
69e1770cfd8239c1…fd8239c1…2023-03-24 15:02:14 <phf> in completely unrelated girl didn't know about afrika bambaataa, and in "takin' it ooool school" that in my book is the last time hip hop was creative en mass, back when it was weird and cyberpunk
f40091c53d767a63…eff3226d…2023-03-24 15:02:45 <asciilifeform> phf: there was a line item for diana's wage in hard coin; prolly safe bet that she had stowed away a % rather than burned all, and today no longer relies on working for a wage. asciilifeform was speculating about the psychological effect of 'became aristocrat'. (could be wrong on both counts)
11ce5a6faa0ff3d1…2ca26137…2023-03-24 15:06:48 <signpost> simpler answer is folks came away from the thing with their particular shard of the culture that booted up briefly, and a shard of the thing looks like insanity from another shard.
18a4e43a11ce5a6f…11ce5a6f…2023-03-24 15:07:17 signpost was talking over coffee this morning to his wife about ^
08d209a918a4e43a…18a4e43a…2023-03-24 15:08:21 <signpost> that most likely there's a gap between the most disagreeable types, and everyone else. when cultural phase-shifts are building, they change first, then there's no-man's-land between them and the middle.
14023e4308d209a9…f40091c5…2023-03-24 15:08:59 <asciilifeform> ACTION lulzily ended up with a long (if not necessarily exhaustive) list of 'mp treasure' addrs, as side effect of old project with him, and indeed to this day none of these 'buried treasures' moved. (which not proves that 'no one has launch codes', natura
04977f1f14023e43…c713c28f…2023-03-24 15:09:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-06-29 asciilifeform: signpost: he sent no fewer than (iirc) 3000 worth of spent addrs to asciilifeform , when asked the latter for help in nailing 'bch' fork
392fb8a7d1562dc5…08d209a9…2023-03-24 15:08:58 <signpost> most interesting phase shifts occur when an ultra-disagreeable translates the thing into something which can infect the middle's old firmware.
847354a9392fb8a7…aa0ff3d1…2023-03-24 15:13:29 <phf> asciilifeform, i imagine you have a script that monitors blockchain for the movements
f6eb82ee847354a9…d1562dc5…2023-03-24 15:14:18 <asciilifeform> phf: at one pt did, but later mostly lost interest in subj
2db51c1ef6eb82ee…847354a9…2023-03-24 15:18:28 <phf> that seems like some kind of failure of stable environment. i've noticed this also with my shit, in 2015 or so i had scripts that ran on various machines, as cronjobs or processes, that have been doing that for a decade, often times long failing at their original purpose (e.g. moni [kEF |?.<荆
8e97f32b2db51c1e…2db51c1e…2023-03-24 15:18:28 <phf> toring websites that have been down for some part of that decade), but was just too much work to cleanup if they didn't do proper error reporting [kEF |?.<荆
adae9bc08e97f32b…8e97f32b…2023-03-24 15:19:54 <phf> but it was still cool when they fullfilled their original task (for trigger jobs anyway), like when i got to catch up with a friend on RUNET irc who disappeared, and then reappeared like 5 years later. a script caught him
88782b4dadae9bc0…adae9bc0…2023-03-24 15:21:12 <phf> and then things simply stopped working en mass, hosting providers closed, new hosting providers encourage s3 style "spin up instance per task", etc. probably btcbase is the most long running casual process i have at this point
c29a9f1088782b4d…f6eb82ee…2023-03-24 16:04:48 asciilifeform has the 'stable hosting' thing taken care of, prolly to the farthest extent physically possible, but fails on entirely other counts ( worx on heathen liquishit ~14h/d and tends to fughet what was even doing elsewhere on regular basis )
6a13f63ac29a9f10…88782b4d…2023-03-24 21:49:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-23#1025137 << i've read it, i think it's pretty coherent. what are your objections to it?
fba135d66a13f63a…e4798af0…2023-03-24 21:50:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 14:04:54 asciilifeform[6]: meanwhile, in other mega-titans of industry.
0bd4ccc0fba135d6…6a13f63a…2023-03-24 21:51:23 <phf> it's a kind of principles of computing but for cryptography, and while, significantly high level, i can see how it would clarify thinking by establishing large scope requirements. e.g. user must inderstand own crypto in order to use it effectively or at all is a perhaps unrealistic but a commandable requirement
96dbce750bd4ccc0…c29a9f10…2023-03-24 21:56:11 <asciilifeform> phf: no objections to it as such, but observe that phf successfully reduced the piece to 1 sentence
33276c2b96dbce75…0bd4ccc0…2023-03-24 22:05:51 <phf> i like diana's style, i think i've mentioned that before. “Dearest N---, oh how positively delightful it was to see you, and your lovely young wife T---, at the races last month.”
bdabd70033276c2b…33276c2b…2023-03-24 22:09:21 <phf> but i don't think it changed much with millions, i don't know if she wrote like that pre-tmsr, but i think a lot of us leaned towards this kind of elaborate high style. it can sometimes get needlessly tedious, but reading her later articles this is not some kind of new norm
8236fc68bdabd700…bdabd700…2023-03-24 22:11:50 <phf> i'm just not sure how she's going to progress from her principles of cryptography towards concrete implementations, similiarlly how your principles of computing have "now vlsi a chip at x nm" as a step somewhere there, which is a significantly non-trivial step in its details
8bd94cbc8236fc68…96dbce75…2023-03-25 00:38:45 asciilifeform could be content with even lsi, w/out the 'v', lol.
80463b848bd94cbc…8bd94cbc…2023-03-25 00:39:30 <asciilifeform> aint even expensive, in the usual sense. but seems that asciilifeform is cursed 4evah to 'time xor dough'
6712f30880463b84…80463b84…2023-03-25 00:41:28 <asciilifeform> re cryptography -- asciilifeform not kept up with diana's www, but thought she had all the cryptography she wanted, 'enuff to eat with arse'(tm)
716b272c6712f308…6712f308…2023-03-25 00:43:07 asciilifeform like over9000 folx sympathizes with 'desire to discover sumthing Great' 'despite not having with-what'. but not certain that this fully describes subj.
e3d4f270716b272c…716b272c…2023-03-25 00:44:29 <asciilifeform> ( see e.g. wolfram. even 1e9$ not helped ! )
41ce67dce3d4f270…04977f1f…2023-03-25 00:44:30 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-09-25 asciilifeform: revisiting wolfram -- it aint clear to me that he had ever, in whole life, had an idea (in the claimed sense.) specifically 'automata physics' aint his idea. belongs to von neumann & co. likewise 'rule 110' -- m. cook.
9be01240c6bd03d4…c6bd03d4…2023-03-26 01:38:44 <jonsykkel> u sign a part (line of code, function, library, prog, os, etc) along with formal english lang spec that says wat it dose.
7c8031699be01240…9be01240…2023-03-26 01:38:47 <jonsykkel> the signature means "i promis that this here piece of code does wat the attached spec says"
2a156b4b7c803169…7c803169…2023-03-26 01:38:50 <jonsykkel> if ur thing has dependencys, u include the specs for these in the ball that u sign, making the statment "i promis that my code does wat the atached spec for it says, ASSUMING the implementations of dependencys also follow attached specs for these"
316f863e2a156b4b…2a156b4b…2023-03-26 01:38:54 <jonsykkel> a prototipe that dosnt fully conform to an alredy existing spec could have spec+adendum atached and signed. "i promis that code does as atached spec says EXEPt blabla.."
fac06a5e316f863e…316f863e…2023-03-26 01:38:57 <jonsykkel> solves to some extent problem of "wtf does signture mean", and gives the option of decoupling dependency implementations from descriptions of their semantics
c11667dafac06a5e…fac06a5e…2023-03-26 01:39:00 <jonsykkel> any changes to the prog, prog spec or dependency specs will be in the vpatch diffs
ec41dc66c11667da…c11667da…2023-03-26 01:39:03 <jonsykkel> example http://zzz.st/up/olNWGD1z/example.png
458f56c7ec41dc66…ec41dc66…2023-03-26 06:24:28 <jonsykkel> main idea being to move "ground floor" (the line below which is the stuf u must alredy know to be able to run entire item manually on paper) down to just above english lang
00b9edf7458f56c7…458f56c7…2023-03-26 06:24:44 <jonsykkel> exact behavior is specified as long as meaning of english lang is agred on and none of specs contain undefined behveior
d5fa30eb56520df6…f9aa15d5…2023-03-26 15:06:39 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: see also knuth's 'literate programming'
cee4501bdaa1bf9e…d5fa30eb…2023-03-26 19:15:20 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: see also this apropos vintage crackpottery by asciilifeform .
c23beda3d3045eea…392fb8a7…2023-03-27 01:16:58 <signpost> I liked this crackpottery. "I swear before Odin, this is contemptible shit."
75577431c23beda3…ce6166c4…2023-04-08 09:23:21 <crtdaydreams> apropros to various mentions of zoomerisms and the lulzfest that is the "cybersecurity" industry
101251b23d060873…3d060873…2023-03-27 02:49:10 <jonsykkel> in others thought im would atempt something like this as a xperiment
e9936cf8101251b2…fba135d6…2023-03-27 02:53:13 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-08 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho even an item written in ordinary amd64 asm (for starters) would fit the bill. so long as it is done [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-18#1016684][correctly -- i.e. ONLY impleme
c212d2dee9936cf8…41ce67dc…2023-03-27 02:51:55 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-07-18 asciilifeform: trinque: since you mentioned script langs: considering, after ffa, to attempt a 'dethompsonizing' simple gc-less scheme in asm, in style of 'M' as a scripting lang. can't speak for erryone, but i've wanted a <32kB scripting lang that 'compiles wit
e454d2e7c212d2de…c212d2de…2023-03-27 02:51:55 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-07-18 asciilifeform: historically it's been attempted before, but all the examples i know of made fundamental mistake (attempted to implement the reader in the proggy, rather than in the interp. bytecode. if you do the latter, whole thing is 100x simpler)
4cbd102be454d2e7…101251b2…2023-03-27 02:49:20 <jonsykkel> alredy scoured logs for info re this kinda thing and readed kogge chapter on secd
8a11c5d54cbd102b…4cbd102b…2023-03-27 02:49:39 <jonsykkel> if anybudy has any bright ideas it would not be bad if these ideas could be placed in this chat at this point in time
230e5661840506cb…d3045eea…2023-03-27 03:04:28 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: a++ project and afaik you've errything you need. that sword's been stuck in the stone for long enuff imho.
ca0987fb18dde5a5…18dde5a5…2023-04-08 09:30:10 <crtdaydreams> no-ones made a toilet-tron for the same reason no-ones published a gui pestron... ui toolchains suck, especially web ones
bd9fbe35b5044897…230e5661…2023-03-27 03:06:39 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: btw this is good example of how ~not~ to do it. dun write the 'paren eater' (text to ast meatgrinder) in asm. do it in the bytecoad, keep the x86olade to a min.
2b2afc4dca0987fb…ca0987fb…2023-04-08 09:32:23 <crtdaydreams> might need a sat cell for your part of the world
c6e01decbd9fbe35…bd9fbe35…2023-03-27 03:07:16 <asciilifeform> ideally the latter oughta just eval, and elementary io, oughta fit in l0 cache.
9f6fa5d0c6e01dec…c6e01dec…2023-03-27 03:07:50 <asciilifeform> aa jonsykkel already even linked to the relevant line.
ba31071abcb66488…bcb66488…2023-03-27 03:05:31 <jonsykkel> thing can be ported to watever iron in 30min
1e7f0fc4b7983e17…e075a9c8…2023-04-09 16:24:30 <phf> medley interlisp 2023 report, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYWFTiai_tA i haven't seen it yet, but for teh "build a lisp machine from twigs and other such sticks" crowd
662bda0e1e7f0fc4…8c81e334…2023-04-10 13:59:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-09#1025448 << asciilifeform thought 'neato', all the way until got to the 'dockerization and cloud' claptrap
2bebd77c2e0fe40f…9f6fa5d0…2023-03-27 03:08:32 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: 'm' has errything you need in re: 'linux binturd w/out linker crapola'
ed9afa3f662bda0e…6e4f560f…2023-04-10 14:00:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-09 12:25:55 phf[deedbot|awt|signpost]: medley interlisp 2023 report, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYWFTiai_tA i haven't seen it yet, but for teh "build a lisp machine from twigs and other such sticks" crowd
f8eb9a67ed9afa3f…00000000…2023-04-10 14:48:53 <phf> well you know how those old hackers be, amptly explored in the logs. "we are learning all kinds of new things from out contributors! we've ported to wayland, added ttf renderer, gtk3 backend, and a docker!!"
a084483cf8eb9a67…662bda0e…2023-04-10 15:21:25 <asciilifeform> phf: wasn't over9000 surprised. but still ugh, 'hey let's resurrect lispm' 'but of course to Modernize!'
8a0492057dd1f6ab…7dd1f6ab…2023-04-10 15:48:48 <phf> but it's kind of obvious that most people who work on projects like that don't intensely hate the current state of things. particularly old timers, their position is more like "if people knew what structural editor was, they'd add it to intellij!!"
dd00d3e9ac93f21e…00000000…2023-03-27 14:22:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-24#1025217 << and as soon as i said that btcbase decided to crash
52913a0cdd00d3e9…e9936cf8…2023-03-27 14:23:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-24 11:22:39 phf[4]: and then things simply stopped working en mass, hosting providers closed, new hosting providers encourage s3 style "spin up instance per task", etc. probably btcbase is the most long running casual process i have at this point
854bca2152913a0c…dd00d3e9…2023-03-27 14:24:08 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-27#1025272 << http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-05#1017412 and many others
60a39b91854bca21…52913a0c…2023-03-27 14:25:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-27 07:36:02 jonsykkel: hehe http://zzz.st/up/5F0Osbq0/
f42b495060a39b91…60a39b91…2023-03-27 14:25:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-05 11:22:11 phf[awt]: i maybe wasn't articulate on the point, but i still think that sexps make for a poor interchange format (and neither bolix nor cadr used them for that)
ed0b217af42b4950…854bca21…2023-03-27 14:26:03 <phf> but if you're going to use them as serialization format, from common lisp, then you'd better know exactly what you're doing
fcad775a885ec29d…dab06513…2023-04-10 17:20:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025455 << was aboutta say 'would expect folx who used lisp-alltheway-down to know better than 'they'd add it to..'' then remembered gosling et al
27c8a89eed0b217a…ed0b217a…2023-03-27 14:28:51 <phf> the documentation for write http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm#write has a bunch of `printer control variables` which affect the print in a variety of ways. they can be passed to some functions explicitly (write/write-to-string), and some functions bind them implicitly for convenience
21952cc2fcad775a…ed9afa3f…2023-04-10 17:22:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-10 11:50:15 phf[4]: but it's kind of obvious that most people who work on projects like that don't intensely hate the current state of things. particularly old timers, their position is more like "if people knew what structural editor was, they'd add it to intellij!!"
7e5d636927c8a89e…27c8a89e…2023-03-27 14:33:17 <phf> specifically variables of interest are *print-escape*/*print-readably*, or :escape and :readably as arguments, they decide between "intended to look good for people" and "intended to be acceptable to read"
348451137e5d6369…7e5d6369…2023-03-27 14:34:34 <phf> so patching above to (... (write-to-string x :escape t :readably t) ...) will produce desired result
8de0e8683a6844af…b6b91e4d…2023-04-10 17:21:40 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-07-16 asciilifeform: 'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart'
5042952834845113…34845113…2023-03-27 14:53:18 <phf> but with that out of the way for this particular sequence sbcl has a funny bug, because of course it does. with just :escape t it prints `#\Space` as `#\ `, and it just happens that it breaks the line on #\ being the last element. so when you read it back instead of it being `#\ ` jɫI%+2ګlXn8ԞwFܹ
0026718f8de0e868…3a6844af…2023-04-10 17:22:05 <asciilifeform> ^ orig. from an mp piece, can't recall which
f9c02c2650429528…50429528…2023-03-27 14:53:18 <phf> it's actually `#\<Newline>` and you get back #\newline instead of #\space jɫI%+2ګlXn8ԞwFܹ
e90219db0026718f…0026718f…2023-04-10 17:36:09 <asciilifeform> in (mostly unrelated) sads, 'clion' ( and asciilifeform bought subscription, lol ) no longer runs on dulap-gentoo. rip.
5e07acdef9c02c26…f9c02c26…2023-03-27 14:57:45 <phf> the printer facility is so elaborate, you can do (write '(defun ...) :escape t :readable t :pretty t) and it'll give you a pretty-printed source code back, which knows how to indent elaborate things like loop macro
b3bab577e90219db…21952cc2…2023-04-10 17:37:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-18 13:05:21 asciilifeform[4]: phf: in other lulz, recently tried oddball commercial proggy editor from the pycharm etc. people -- 'clion'. notbad imho.
6ac3d892b3bab577…e90219db…2023-04-10 17:38:42 asciilifeform 'like total idjit' actually updated it, dozen+ times, actual bugfixes/improvements! until finally 'improved' to death, lol
5cf8611e6f8e07a9…ac93f21e…2023-03-27 16:07:39 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-27#1025280 << 5 difrent print functions and none of them do the useful thing of binding all those control vars by default
0515d56c6ac3d892…6ac3d892…2023-04-10 17:40:09 <asciilifeform> ^ signpost phf (and anyone else who used the thing?)
aa1d029a5cf8611e…f42b4950…2023-03-27 16:11:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-27 10:30:14 phf[4]: the documentation for write http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm#write has a bunch of `printer control variables` which affect the print in a variety of ways. they can be passed to some functions explicitly (write/write-to-string), and some functions bind t
d67dc9850515d56c…c23beda3…2023-04-10 18:05:56 <signpost> https://www.jetbrains.com/clion/download/other.html << they keep the old versions around for download
a7af7d0ed67dc985…0515d56c…2023-04-10 18:16:25 <asciilifeform> signpost: of course asciilifeform had backup of the prev. ver., but did pay for the subscription, and thought 'hey, new ver. shows disasm & memory dumps etc'
91d015881476521b…1476521b…2023-03-27 16:12:12 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-27#1025285 << should wire that into editor to auto format stuff
723f905ba7af7d0e…d67dc985…2023-04-10 18:29:33 <signpost> ah yep, I don't tend to fight the march of Progress when it comes to running stuff like this.
8788762f91d01588…aa1d029a…2023-03-27 16:16:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-27 10:59:08 phf[4]: the printer facility is so elaborate, you can do (write '(defun ...) :escape t :readable t :pretty t) and it'll give you a pretty-printed source code back, which knows how to indent elaborate things like loop macro
a7379cfa723f905b…723f905b…2023-04-10 18:30:27 signpost has a recent Gentoo chroot for such things as this, web browser, etc
fbd961928788762f…9438df5a…2023-03-27 17:28:20 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: what were you trying to do ? ( ... write x86 asmer in cl ? )
e7bfb4e9a7379cfa…a7379cfa…2023-04-10 18:30:40 <signpost> and entirely separate machine for vintage linux
a5c539cafbd96192…91d01588…2023-03-27 17:30:17 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: im writing secd machine in c first 2 get a feel for it and wanted to test it quickly without having any reader
0108cef7e7bfb4e9…a7af7d0e…2023-04-10 21:02:41 <asciilifeform> signpost: thing was remarkable for running on asciilifeform's gentoo 'as-is'. but 'all good things end' eh.
96d17a900108cef7…0108cef7…2023-04-10 21:06:34 <asciilifeform> ( for the innocent -- there was a whole generation of 'commercial linuxware done right', i.e. installed 'without tentacles', didn't care what libc you had, etc. -- e.g. 'eagle cad', these were a++ , but nao afaik all gone )
ccf612cf97398934…a5c539ca…2023-03-27 17:31:29 <jonsykkel> so now i can "assemble" from cl macros etc into masterpieces like this http://zzz.st/up/IF6EkAGu/
0bfd73a096d17a90…00000000…2023-04-11 02:09:56 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025469 << afaiu you have to figure out how to run whatever latest java first, then you can run the thing as a jar. but i don't know if that applies to most recent clion. i have e.g. intellij running on openbsd, which is what's known as "not for the faint of heart"
05f8ccc00bfd73a0…b3bab577…2023-04-11 02:11:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-10 13:41:35 asciilifeform[5]: ^ signpost phf (and anyone else who used the thing?)
1619ad3305f8ccc0…0bfd73a0…2023-04-11 02:11:24 <phf> some plugins fail, but up until last time i upgraded it (which was four months or so ago), the failures were "graceful". some wizard or dialog fails to open due to exception, but without bringing the whole thing down, will just continue to run everything else
7c5480e01619ad33…1619ad33…2023-04-11 02:12:36 <phf> main question is "can you even run most recent java on whatever box", i have no idea what all the different acronyms mean, but i recon there's a portalbe opensource jdk that you can boot even on most questionable setups (openbsd)
0f2da96a7c5480e0…7c5480e0…2023-04-11 02:12:59 <phf> i can't imagine that oracle does java releases for openbsd…
18f23b523f4aa391…96d17a90…2023-04-11 14:36:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025477 << the linux installer, interestingly, had own java baked in.
dd7017d9edd86112…ef1200d9…2023-03-27 17:48:35 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: possibly bake a static reader (and proper 1 later)
19c7997a18f23b52…05f8ccc0…2023-04-11 14:37:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-10 22:11:22 phf[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025469 << afaiu you have to figure out how to run whatever latest java first, then you can run the thing as a jar. but i don't know if that applies to most recent clion. i have e.g. intellij running on openbsd, which is what's known as "not for t
03a87fb519c7997a…18f23b52…2023-04-11 14:38:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-10#1025479 << on asciilifeform's end, the 'fail' was that the thing as of latest update demands some turd with root privs
19f0bcaa03a87fb5…19c7997a…2023-04-11 14:40:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-10 22:12:49 phf[4]: some plugins fail, but up until last time i upgraded it (which was four months or so ago), the failures were "graceful". some wizard or dialog fails to open due to exception, but without bringing the whole thing down, will just continue to run everything else
7ec70f034cd807cd…3a6615fd…2023-03-28 11:28:06 <unpx> Funny quest would be break this key http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr&chan=all
b346910119f0bcaa…03a87fb5…2023-04-11 19:18:24 <asciilifeform> phf (and anyone else possibly using that thing) -- vendor did reply to asciilifeform's complaint, with this kludge (so far appears to work...)
06da81d5c0994b6b…c7276fc2…2023-03-28 13:24:10 <awt> Wells notice for waterfall collaborator Coinbase and CFTC charges for Binance.
cf41e71906da81d5…06da81d5…2023-03-28 13:25:55 <awt> Bankman-freid arrested (old noose) as well as Do Kown.
3f06cb8ca0023fa7…a0023fa7…2023-03-28 14:22:49 <awt> Bankman-Fried charged with briging Chinese government officials
0553adc884622239…4cd807cd…2023-03-28 14:42:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-28#1025306 << there are fatter addrs
8a4affbd0553adc8…8788762f…2023-03-28 14:44:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-28 07:29:29 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: Funny quest would be break this key http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr&chan=all
a5ade9e08a4affbd…0553adc8…2023-03-28 14:45:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-28#1025311 << who was kwon ?
34d69ba6e2690f3d…84622239…2023-03-28 14:58:35 <awt> asciilifeform: kwon ran a pyramid scheme in which participants "earned yield" by holding his shitcoin. $40 billion poofed.
1d483a80cc6cccef…7fadb4fd…2023-03-29 16:19:58 <jonsykkel> knuth man or boy test http://zzz.st/up/Ib5yxE05/ -----compiler-----> http://zzz.st/up/kVQGk6sI/ -----c99 translator-----> http://zzz.st/up/33XUxwCI/ -----lisptron-----> http://zzz.st/up/SwnQwKW1/
fa5938851d483a80…1d483a80…2023-03-29 16:25:47 <jonsykkel> then idea is u need only virtual machine itself + translater like this for each target
1d0ec55e2b7860db…2b7860db…2023-04-13 14:52:28 asciilifeform thought 'rich lamp' was connected to ' >= ath '
1e26a56afa593885…fa593885…2023-03-29 16:27:16 <jonsykkel> and put reader+compiler insted of knuth test
d051eb661e26a56a…1e26a56a…2023-03-29 16:38:05 <jonsykkel> then u cud for example add orig.src anotations to compiler output that translator turns into comments
f19e4cea4dfbaf3a…6e6ab3c1…2023-04-13 18:32:20 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-06#1025432 << ok now after couple changes were at a more resonabl 600k calls,60mb,0.3sec
7a02a808d051eb66…e5c97646…2023-03-29 17:34:37 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: what does it do with 'LDC', 'RTN', 'LDF', etc. crapola ? ( not appears in the c coad )
55dc6096f19e4cea…19f0bcaa…2023-04-13 18:36:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-06 14:43:48 jonsykkel: and that is, ur pc explodes
777f68107a02a808…7a02a808…2023-03-29 17:35:00 asciilifeform thought jonsykkel was making a proper hand-sewn thing outta actual x86 asm
43fb95e0777f6810…d051eb66…2023-03-29 17:33:57 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: how u mean not appears? appears!
6c91c23486984f34…86984f34…2023-04-13 18:32:25 <jonsykkel> slowest thing is symbol lokup as its inplemented in the lisp layer
9c7f696a6c91c234…6c91c234…2023-04-13 18:32:28 <jonsykkel> also aded smal on/offable gc as a experiment cuz thoguht of a ultra simple way to do it
56f9d7c5f79ba186…43fb95e0…2023-03-29 17:34:30 <jonsykkel> asciilifeform: making hand sewn x86 after im satisfied with c machine, yes
020482909c7f696a…9c7f696a…2023-04-13 18:32:31 <jonsykkel> only tradeoff (in adition to having to suffer disgusting unpredictable gc process), u have to mmap 2x the usable memory
aef4a84b56f9d7c5…f79ba186…2023-03-29 17:37:14 <asciilifeform> wtf are these, and how do they execute ?
af278ff602048290…02048290…2023-04-13 18:32:34 <jonsykkel> funy result is that peak performance in this toy task is with smal 4MB heap and ~20 collectings, not big heap and 0 collectings
40353e29af278ff6…af278ff6…2023-04-13 18:32:37 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/up/IGoputjT/20230413_201834.png
43415b2efbf8f5b5…fbf8f5b5…2023-03-29 17:35:07 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/code/smalisp/tree/src/c99/secd.c
568fb07b5894c6e7…fe617cac…2023-04-14 01:15:23 <billymg> checking in on [adlai][http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-06-16#1107170], i hope you were able to hold out long enough
4ddd0c7d5dc164dc…5dc164dc…2023-03-29 17:40:54 <jonsykkel> gota do it like this, given "bytecode" is linked list and not just sequence of bytes
5c013b8c568fb07b…55dc6096…2023-04-14 01:08:45 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-16 adlai|text: I suppose the best favor I could've done myself, a year ago, would've been selling enough coin to have a year of rent sitting in the fiat bank account.
ba2cc4955c013b8c…5c013b8c…2023-04-14 01:08:45 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: 'system can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent'(tm)(r)(the zerohedge people)
58930b1aece2b70c…4ddd0c7d…2023-03-30 10:48:27 <jonsykkel> although, in final type system (which might lok something like http://zzz.st/up/XluYXtXO/) the indexes can be encoded directly into blob of bytes same way as will be done in x86 version
47fbaf1cba2cc495…568fb07b…2023-04-14 01:18:28 billymg sympathized with adlai at the time because he was also kicking himself for not 'taking profit' at $69,420 or whatever, in hindsight
71e0643958930b1a…58930b1a…2023-03-30 10:51:38 <jonsykkel> aka http://zzz.st/up/XluYXtXO/ <- link that works in log
d1116ae147fbaf1c…47fbaf1c…2023-04-14 01:20:04 <billymg> anyway, now it's spring, and the sun is shining
bdeacfdb1ce326dc…00000000…2023-03-30 13:27:06 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-29#1025326 << tsk, asciilifeform doesn't recognize SECD instructions by name!
61c56b65bdeacfdb…e2690f3d…2023-03-30 13:28:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-29 13:36:00 asciilifeform[6]: jonsykkel: what does it do with 'LDC', 'RTN', 'LDF', etc. crapola ? ( not appears in the c coad )
43cc142375aad42b…bdeacfdb…2023-03-30 13:29:16 <phf> but i kind of lost track of projects goal, outside of being a cool scheme on secd implementation
473a92f943cc1423…75aad42b…2023-03-30 13:27:38 <jonsykkel> gole for me at least is to have usable minimal lang that can be ported to anythign in 30min
9a543369473a92f9…473a92f9…2023-03-30 13:28:56 <jonsykkel> and being lisp ultra n00b, learnment purposes
483cced2d159ce21…ded531fb…2023-04-16 20:00:24 asciilifeform still finds interesting that entire notion of 'btc biz' (if one ignores idjit shitcoin shenanigans, as asciilifeform does) seems to have 100% gone away. like roman empire.
eb8ce4d7822d0ef2…822d0ef2…2023-03-30 13:48:27 <phf> apropos of nothing i'd like to document the phrase "going full chuck moore", for the logs. it means building your own technology stack, and retreating into it from the outside, inferior world. can be applied to e.g. "owning" some retro stack also.
e11dd9a3483cced2…483cced2…2023-04-16 20:02:52 <asciilifeform> even elementary thing like being able to buy a coin outside of a gox -- distant memory (at least in the reich lands)
c7f06eb5eb8ce4d7…eb8ce4d7…2023-03-30 13:49:06 <phf> and of course, you never go full chuck moore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q
aab6e6b8e11dd9a3…5767caa4…2023-04-16 20:45:41 <awt> asciilifeform: you want to buy a coin outside of a gox?
4554f851c7f06eb5…c7f06eb5…2023-03-30 13:49:33 <phf> terry davis went full chuck moore and look at him now
2a4fe0694554f851…4554f851…2023-03-30 13:55:07 <phf> but if one were to go full chuck moore a secd machine with a bunch of small higher level languages targeting it is probably not the worst way. i'm personally partial to microcoded architectures, but there's also for example the wirth route which i also like: oberon which is still a 5{[)˰ į (Du
19a6e6f6b3771976…f374d1f6…2023-04-17 00:39:41 <lobbes> awt: was this an in-wot trade? I assume anyone trading outside a gox these days is using contacts in their respective wots
29cb65f42a4fe069…2a4fe069…2023-03-30 13:55:07 <phf> live, though oberon's strategy is to have the core to be so simple that it's easy to retarget. but from that direction my favorite system is probably ucsd-pascal, which is a self-contained operating system/programming environment/etc running on a portable p-code vm. 5{[)˰ į (Du
60f4fbda19a6e6f6…19a6e6f6…2023-04-17 00:39:59 lobbes wishes he built up such contacts when local bitcoins was a thing back then
29a54b4c60f4fbda…60f4fbda…2023-04-17 00:42:49 <lobbes> I lead myself to believe that my auctionbot (with its btc micro-fees) would continue to have a reason to exist; got too comfy
2a1341618d52a0ae…8d52a0ae…2023-03-30 14:14:13 <jonsykkel> is oberon not same as wat im doing then? small core that can put atop of anything
c8a156552a134161…2a134161…2023-03-30 14:14:39 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-30#1025345 << here i meant the secd itself can be ported
e36e7cf45718fd3f…5718fd3f…2023-04-17 00:55:38 <awt> lobbes: I also wish I'd been able to keep up with contacts. Used to be able to pull off btc -> yuan -> cash
4b3de0c0c8a15655…61c56b65…2023-03-30 14:18:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 09:31:56 jonsykkel: gole for me at least is to have usable minimal lang that can be ported to anythign in 30min
7a0a507a88b788a8…29cb65f4…2023-03-30 15:19:00 <phf> the oberon on wirth's site doesn't have a virtual machine. the language is designed to be small enough that you can "easily" retarget it, but i don't know what the compilation strategy is like
e71a62ea7a0a507a…ece2b70c…2023-03-30 15:43:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-30#1025341 << indeed lol, not immed. realized
cc96dc7ae71a62ea…4b3de0c0…2023-03-30 15:44:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 09:28:30 phf[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-29#1025326 << tsk, asciilifeform doesn't recognize SECD instructions by name!
a969c6b5ed483caf…06417c76…2023-04-18 15:21:29 <awt> https://twitter.com/SECGov/status/1647973594184417283
645003a9cc96dc7a…e71a62ea…2023-03-30 15:47:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-30#1025348 << in re jonsykkel's item, asciilifeform's notion was less ambitious than 'full chuckmoore'
e62f7ac3a969c6b5…a969c6b5…2023-04-18 15:21:49 <awt> "Today we charged crypto asset trading platform Bittrex Inc. and its co-founder and former CEO William Shihara for operating an unregistered national securities exchange, broker, and clearing agency." ^
ef8f3866645003a9…e454d2e7…2023-03-30 15:47:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-17 asciilifeform: mangol: what's imho needed is a fully 'autarkik' scripting lang, which sucks in 0 shitlibs and runs, like 'M', on any extant pc iron under all linuxen from past ~15y
ea20a9b4645003a9…cc96dc7a…2023-03-30 15:49:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 09:49:50 phf[4]: apropos of nothing i'd like to document the phrase "going full chuck moore", for the logs. it means building your own technology stack, and retreating into it from the outside, inferior world. can be applied to e.g. "owning" some retro stack also.
d73077eee62f7ac3…e11dd9a3…2023-04-18 17:59:24 <asciilifeform> awt: lulzy ( de-facto ban on ethertardation at goxes in reich ? )
8c2c4b14ef8f3866…ef8f3866…2023-03-30 15:47:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-01-13 asciilifeform: re 'sh' etc : there's a dire lack of civilized scripting lang presently.
1674bde6ff2f5186…8c2c4b14…2023-03-30 15:50:41 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-08-21 asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct)
113fb13a1f93bed0…40353e29…2023-04-19 14:43:28 <jonsykkel> its kinda distgusting to lok at memory dump where 70% of bytes are 00
c270a0511674bde6…ff2f5186…2023-03-30 15:52:10 <asciilifeform> oughta be possible to write proggies like this w/out any of a) reader wants to claw his eyes out b) GBs of ??? deps c) bizarrely variant behaviour across platforms
db93f3b0113fb13a…113fb13a…2023-04-19 14:43:34 <jonsykkel> im considerating memory model where each cell is 64bit then seprately, 4bit types packed togetehr in start of heap
5b1ae104db93f3b0…db93f3b0…2023-04-19 14:43:41 <jonsykkel> that would make car/cdr 32bit, limiting adres space to 32gb
120b3f3d8f530a89…8f530a89…2023-03-30 15:54:20 <asciilifeform> thinking re 'full chuckmoore' -- currently, the 'policeman' against this is the www browser. ( the set of folx ready to let go of it, aint a null set, but likely limited to terry davis candidates, sadly , for foreseeable future )
60882c045b1ae104…5b1ae104…2023-04-19 14:43:50 <jonsykkel> would that limitation make a script lang useless to anybudy else than me?
e681e03c120b3f3d…7ec70f03…2023-03-30 20:02:27 <unpx> asciilifeform: what do you mean by "www" here? Just removing HTML, cookies and quirks, like keeping just the public documents/files available and everything else behind some other protocol or do you mean something else?
32cb2b0960882c04…d73077ee…2023-04-19 15:02:31 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: not useless, but potentially annoying (esp. if run w/out gc)
b2eb1942e681e03c…549e6574…2023-03-30 20:18:12 <PeterL> unpx: I'd guess asciilifeform is implying that it is unlikely one can run FireFox on their own minimalistic self-maintained software stack
8da7cbc8b2eb1942…120b3f3d…2023-03-30 20:24:34 <asciilifeform> unpx: google et al 'stole' www, long ago, turned it into a multi-GB pseudo-standard 'moving target' ~entirely unimplementable (in any reliable sense) by any third party
eb9b31ea61d8e11b…32cb2b09…2023-04-19 15:11:16 <asciilifeform> ( in asciilifeform's cosmography, 'scripting lang' is 1 where a typical proggy runs '1 shot' -- e.g. vtron -- and terminates. and so gc-less operation is potentially The Right Thing : simpler runtime, easily-predicted time, etc )
29f9d1a28da7cbc8…8da7cbc8…2023-03-30 20:25:39 <asciilifeform> which aint to say that you can't use a '90s style browser to read e.g. asciilifeform's www. but you won't be loggin into yer bank etc. from it.
7d58b0d5eb9b31ea…61d8e11b…2023-04-19 15:13:08 <jonsykkel> doesnt cache effects make time somwat unpredictable either way?
a9266d3a29f9d1a2…29f9d1a2…2023-03-30 20:30:42 <asciilifeform> ... at this point, even ~building~ the thing on ordinary linux is becoming an everest climb
8c6c098a7d58b0d5…7d58b0d5…2023-04-19 15:15:25 <jonsykkel> in my toy tests prog total execution time is lower with simple gc than no gc
8a0f316aa9266d3a…1674bde6…2023-03-30 20:30:42 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-02-05 asciilifeform: fwiw there are a number of proggies i was not able to build on that x60 , under my gentoo banflag-list . e.g. 'chromium', number of others.
a917b8e38a0f316a…a9266d3a…2023-03-30 20:32:02 asciilifeform has boxen w/ e.g. 256G ram, 24core cpu, etc. and the fucking shitware reliably guzzles up ~all of it
6637f75c52aa8f64…eb9b31ea…2023-04-19 16:15:54 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: pretty strange (if a cell aint accessed, should not be dinging cache locality of proggy)
9bf0727da917b8e3…a917b8e3…2023-03-30 20:32:23 <asciilifeform> ( when ~using~, not even speaking of any attempt to build )
945d809a6637f75c…52aa8f64…2023-04-19 16:18:47 <jonsykkel> well in gc version it collects a couple of times, so ends up accessing smaller amount of cells
a0a6affa9bf0727d…e681e03c…2023-03-30 20:44:42 <unpx> PeterL, asciilifeform: indeed, but what then? I may have a comfy machine for working and then a machine for specific bank/gov stuff, but then what would you have in that work machine? wget, lynx port, Konqueror, Pale Moon? Or would you reduce documents to TXT and forget HTML rendering?
c6fd56bc945d809a…6637f75c…2023-04-19 16:46:07 <asciilifeform> aa makes sense, it's a stop©/compacting gc, neh
1cfbc46ea0a6affa…9bf0727d…2023-03-30 22:52:06 <asciilifeform> unpx: well, 'if wishes were horses', wainot 'concordia'.
b6b91e4d1cfbc46e…8a0f316a…2023-03-30 22:52:06 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-09-13 asciilifeform: trinque: https://vimeo.com/83886950
e1e77361b6b91e4d…a0a6affa…2023-03-31 12:33:34 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-30#1025376 <<< Looks like Parkinson's law applied to computer programs.
db754067e1e77361…ea20a9b4…2023-03-31 12:34:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 16:33:26 asciilifeform[6]: has boxen w/ e.g. 256G ram, 24core cpu, etc. and the fucking shitware reliably guzzles up ~all of it
be8453f1db754067…e1e77361…2023-03-31 12:39:37 <unpx> I'm currently trying to sort code I wrote over the time for alchemy, it is silly I get stuck on such trivial task
0ae4c297332ec33a…1f93bed0…2023-04-21 15:48:48 <awt> It's liquidity: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM2NS
579eee510ae4c297…23eb30fb…2023-04-21 18:40:33 <billymg> and in other starve-the-peasants news, nyc to "track the carbon footprint" of what the plebs are eating
63b4ee70f30ec876…f30ec876…2023-04-21 18:40:58 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-17#1024759
bd51e19963b4ee70…ba2cc495…2023-04-21 18:34:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-17 12:24:57 asciilifeform[5]: famine, fwiw, is likely to make a comeback shortly, the lizards missed it and intend to bring it back, controlled famine was a handy political scalpel from dawn of agriculture.
912b527f985caad8…985caad8…2023-04-21 18:42:04 <billymg> "About a fifth of New York’s greenhouse gas emissions come from household food consumption, Adams told reporters, blaming much of that total on meat and dairy. Household food consumption is supposedly the third largest contributor to city emissions totals, trailing only buildings and transportation."
0b986cee8e6c864c…8de0e868…2023-04-21 18:38:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-07 asciilifeform: oblig. su joak: 'father: vodka's gone up, son. son: father, does that mean you will drink less now? father: no, son, it means that now you will eat less!'
671da29d0b986cee…912b527f…2023-04-21 18:47:26 <billymg> costa rica too. earlier this year out of whole milk for about two months, now butter https://qcostarica.com/butter-shortage-in-costa-rica/
67007a3d671da29d…8e6c864c…2023-04-21 18:41:26 <asciilifeform> billymg: from 'between the lines', seems likely that's a gorby-style engineered shortage. in this case, to zap import duties and colonize cr with hormonal etc. us-exported dairies.
b4fbf46c05fc5ae2…05fc5ae2…2023-04-22 01:15:46 <awt> My pm keeps figuring out ways to squeeze more work ouf the clients so I continue to be preoccupied.
db175d90b4fbf46c…67007a3d…2023-04-22 01:51:17 <asciilifeform> awt: picked it back up recently after a looong forced pause
559ecc3b908eee46…2cc4e37e…2023-04-22 14:28:56 signpost picked up a new fiat gig, will be eating some attention for a while as I ramp up.
2228e91f947706cc…559ecc3b…2023-04-22 16:03:57 <signpost> ty, was a better opportunity than grunting out another startup for 5-10yrs
7cb21f0b2228e91f…2228e91f…2023-04-22 16:04:17 <signpost> (especially in the current economic shitstorm)
e1367fe726a204b4…947706cc…2023-04-24 15:00:48 <asciilifeform> awt: rather lively waterfall action, loox like
38476311e1367fe7…fee9761f…2023-04-24 15:23:47 <awt> asciilifeform: btc is correlated with tech stocks, which are down, and inversely correlated with vix, which is up.
c6db7d3e1b26d588…1b26d588…2023-04-24 17:23:17 <asciilifeform> consistent, tho, with the misfortune where btc exch rate is made ~100% of gamblers buying/selling leveraged gox pokerchips, rather than saver 'hodl'.
6833aa93c6db7d3e…a89d9c04…2023-04-24 17:46:11 <awt> At a higher level consistent with a shrinking supply of fiatola.
fd7434796833aa93…c6db7d3e…2023-04-24 17:49:27 <asciilifeform> awt: and/or starving folx breaking open piggy banks
da1e60f7fd743479…0b986cee…2023-04-24 17:49:27 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: billymg: what they bank on is that you won't take'em to grave.
eb2448e1da1e60f7…da1e60f7…2023-04-24 17:49:27 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-13 asciilifeform: in train to auschwitz, glass of water cost exactly 1 gold watch.
7a5e4e6deb2448e1…fd743479…2023-04-24 17:54:36 <asciilifeform> ( whatever it is, tho, is obv. massively amplified by leveraged trading of goxcoin )
3347e1267a5e4e6d…6833aa93…2023-04-24 18:03:10 <awt> yes. the leverage cuts both ways. higher highs, lower lows.
141c74863347e126…7a5e4e6d…2023-04-24 18:12:56 <asciilifeform> picture if e.g. usd came in 'rng(1, 100)' bills
cdd6e118eb3f2702…eb2448e1…2023-04-24 19:50:03 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-14 asciilifeform: megavolatility makes conducting day-to-day biz in pure btc largely impossible for afaik anyone.
bd0f30fecdd6e118…cdd6e118…2023-04-24 19:50:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-19 21:28:50 asciilifeform: re: exchrate, tho, imho to ask 'what exchrate is actually justified by actual economic activity in btc' is somewhat of a 'partial differentiation' mistake, given as the leverage-conjured volatility is a rather strong brake on any such activity
645fa255eb7ed5e6…157c5b90…2023-04-25 14:58:35 <awt> asciilifeform: wrt volatility lmk when the sale of btc no longer taxed as capital gains and I'll entertain the possibility of mass adoption as method of exchange.
418b2bcb645fa255…eb3f2702…2023-04-25 15:05:46 <asciilifeform> awt: evidently this aint all that prevents 'mass' ( considering locales where not taxed allegedly existing )
1f45de31418b2bcb…bd0f30fe…2023-04-25 15:05:47 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-31 kakobrekla: but if i were, slovenia has 0 tax on crypto
e6a9885e1f45de31…418b2bcb…2023-04-25 15:07:29 <asciilifeform> in reich, however, indeed extortionate tax on any Official 'btc biz'
e7a930b4e6a9885e…1f45de31…2023-04-25 15:07:30 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-31 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055569 << where's the mystery? see from horse's mouth, e.g. paypal's www : 'Checking out with crypto is a taxable transaction / Because it’s an asset, it will first be sold wh
ded838ec2bd45a75…2bd45a75…2023-04-25 15:12:05 <awt> Looks like as the market cap grows, volatility is continuing to decrease: https://www.theblock.co/data/crypto-markets/prices/bitcoin-volatility-index-bvx
42e6a015ded838ec…ded838ec…2023-04-25 15:13:15 <awt> Unrealistic to expect low volatility from something at < 1T market cap on its way to 80T
c71b3b7c42e6a015…e6a9885e…2023-04-25 16:14:46 <asciilifeform> to asciilifeform seems as if it 'got drunk and fell into ditch' sumwhere 'on the way from 1t to 80'. maybe sobers up & starts walking again, at some pt, nfi
4768e54d0243cef5…7ae271b8…2023-04-26 14:42:07 <awt> We need online codes working so we can start sharing our uncucked LLM warez
d92b24c44768e54d…4768e54d…2023-04-26 14:44:26 <awt> We can then train them on the logs and resurrect various historical republicans as bots.
c5ad75b5f740218b…f740218b…2023-04-26 14:53:26 asciilifeform distinctly recalls proposing an mpbot ( while the latter was alive ) but can't atm find in l0g
5d3a0a5c143f9363…e7a930b4…2023-04-26 14:54:09 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-09-14 asciilifeform: a slightly clever mpbot would be guided by what is actually said to it (grep the from:mircea_popescu lines for words or even fragments of the query and return shannonization of immediately subsequent from: s)
16d8f0bb5d3a0a5c…d92b24c4…2023-04-26 14:56:53 <awt> asciilifeform: I've had some success querying chat gpt about trilema entries. Its immitation of his style was laughable though.
5b042e4c16d8f0bb…143f9363…2023-04-26 14:58:31 asciilifeform 'got enuff' shannonizer in 1990s; and not esp. impressed with the latest refinements to the concept fwiw
06fb80f05b042e4c…5b042e4c…2023-04-26 14:59:27 asciilifeform can see how these entertain folx who lived in a 'different 1990s' tho
7b4cd5d206fb80f0…16d8f0bb…2023-04-26 14:59:38 <awt> asciilifeform: I have found in most cases chat gpt at this point is far superior to googling for many programming tasks/errors.
5805b35f330d47ad…06fb80f0…2023-04-26 15:00:07 <asciilifeform> awt: can easily picture (google has gone to utter shit)
e2a26d085805b35f…8f68e16b…2023-04-26 15:10:34 <unpx> I've been trying to understand this fancy computation they advertise in MAGMA but it still doesn't convince me a lot
0ac16adce2a26d08…e2a26d08…2023-04-26 15:13:36 <unpx> awt, I'll wait to see it able to answer why that solution was chosen -- hoping it is not biased on ``it's fast''
1d280e9c0ac16adc…330d47ad…2023-04-26 15:28:50 <awt> unpx: is this AI related? Not seeing the connection.
442d5d961d280e9c…0ac16adc…2023-04-26 15:29:54 <unpx> No, was just commenting what I've read. It is related to my math proj
c4aa5fbd442d5d96…5805b35f…2023-04-26 15:57:56 <asciilifeform> unpx: interesting piece, btw, asciilifeform read some yrs ago when was digging into algebratrons
19e11b09c4aa5fbd…1d280e9c…2023-04-26 17:30:43 <awt> https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?graph_id=248494 <- M2 % change
e8a69b18f7274874…19e11b09…2023-04-26 17:35:13 <awt> asciilifeform: yes. Looks like now missing IRA and Keogh balances. Dunno what Keogh balances are.
fe7b268f6f6e6a1f…6f6e6a1f…2023-04-26 17:36:10 <awt> So whatever the measure, continuously down only for some time.
1913b5d9fe7b268f…fe7b268f…2023-04-26 17:37:52 <awt> Possible that "Keogh" and IRA going up I guess. Mine isn't.
e4bb53901913b5d9…1913b5d9…2023-04-26 17:38:37 <awt> Keogh is some kind of retirement plan for self-employed workers.
2e245c86e4bb5390…f7274874…2023-04-26 17:47:28 <asciilifeform> ( ftr, asciilifeform's pov re reich stats. )
3bf95a1d2e245c86…5d3a0a5c…2023-04-26 17:47:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-25 asciilifeform: the interesting, psychologically, aspect of the mats thread is the difficulty, for some folx, of making the jump to 'reich stats likely bogus, all i can rely on is personal experience of self and those around me'
d4dc965a3bf95a1d…3bf95a1d…2023-04-26 17:47:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-29 asciilifeform: finds this experience surreal, in the old sovok nobody one'd be likely to meet entertained belief in Official stats
c03c0fb5d4dc965a…d4dc965a…2023-04-26 17:47:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-29 asciilifeform: the quickest way to see what reich stats are worth is to look at own wallet. asciilifeform's expenses in past 2y up considerably farther from the Official 6% or what was it.
0463792364eeee14…2e245c86…2023-04-26 17:48:58 <asciilifeform> well for jobs like this, not even need mega-bot, but simply l0g search.
5e645d1104637923…64eeee14…2023-04-26 17:49:33 <awt> "summarize asciilifeform's views on x" nevertheless would be nice
9928877b5e645d11…04637923…2023-04-26 17:50:09 <asciilifeform> awt: if you bake such a bot, dun hesitate to plug it in. oughta be at least good for some lulz
1190de5d993b8788…c03c0fb5…2023-04-26 17:52:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-29 asciilifeform: 'avg. temperature in the hospital is only up 0.1 degree' 'but errybody is dying of typhus' 'so ok, we weigh the temp of the morgue occupants too, explain why shouldn't'
e5f634701190de5d…1190de5d…2023-04-26 17:52:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-29 asciilifeform: 'let's include meth belt in house price index' yea
9f1ba601e5f63470…993b8788…2023-04-26 17:55:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025630 << post some of these, for lulz, if still got'em
02ab416e9f1ba601…bd51e199…2023-04-26 17:56:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 10:58:19 awt: asciilifeform: I've had some success querying chat gpt about trilema entries. Its immitation of his style was laughable though.
85b24c9eaf2fe605…af2fe605…2023-04-26 17:56:26 <asciilifeform> awt: didja have to manually feed it the l0gz ? ( or already ate'em ? )
aba1dafc9dcd2525…85b24c9e…2023-04-26 17:57:30 <asciilifeform> not even contains any obv howlers ( unlike the previous 1 iirc , where 'key developer of monero' or wat was it )
caf69003f51b7da1…aba1dafc…2023-04-26 18:04:14 <asciilifeform> 'Republic of Bitcoin (formerly the Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin)' << wonder what that came out of
f2b540cecaf69003…caf69003…2023-04-26 18:05:13 asciilifeform wonders whether bot still generates the infamous great-looking lolcats but with odd #s of legs
cc61c80ef2b540ce…f2b540ce…2023-04-26 18:07:58 <asciilifeform> what asciilifeform got outta the phree gpt demo using above prompt
ea1c9281486fd93a…486fd93a…2023-04-26 18:41:23 <asciilifeform> in wholly unrelated lulz, asciilifeform learned only nao that it is apparently entirely impossible to generate a unique function name using standard c macro.
4a16ad0dea1c9281…ea1c9281…2023-04-26 18:41:53 <asciilifeform> ( and even using nonstandard '__COUNTER__' apparently impossible to generate one that can be used twice+ )
117603814a16ad0d…4a16ad0d…2023-04-26 18:42:07 <asciilifeform> but if anyone knows otherwise -- plox to write in.
ce6788d22d66105b…2d66105b…2023-04-26 19:28:25 <phf> or just __LINE__, won't be random but will be unique. main issue is that because everything is eval time, you can't capture __LINE__ in a macro, gotta register that function in a call from the same line
acb59481ce6788d2…ce6788d2…2023-04-26 19:33:58 <phf> do i have an evil solution for you, you put X(foo) {...} in bar.c, and then in foo.c you #define X(a) int a##__LINE__() #include "bar.c" and elsewhere you do #define X register(a##__LINE__); #include "bar.c". because X(...) calls are all in the same lines in bar.c you're going ; CyqWgj&^!&;
a8d83c4facb59481…acb59481…2023-04-26 19:33:58 <phf> to get stable names across the different macro invocations ; CyqWgj&^!&;
531afe784a84dd8d…4a84dd8d…2023-04-26 20:49:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025676 << possibly asciilifeform not read sufficiently carefully, but seems as if wouldn't work from inside anuther macro (which is where it was needed)
91127aaa531afe78…02ab416e…2023-04-26 20:50:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 15:35:26 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: do i have an evil solution for you, you put X(foo) {...} in bar.c, and then in foo.c you #define X(a) int a##__LINE__() #include "bar.c" and elsewhere you do #define X register(a##__LINE__); #include "bar.c". because X(...) calls are all in the same lines in
ffa0c6d991127aaa…531afe78…2023-04-26 20:51:22 <asciilifeform> ( full disclosure, what asciilifeform had was a lame thing where repl cmds defined macrologically, and wanted to abolish 'CMD' but still able to have e.g. '?' command which aint kosher in identifiers, so thought 'replace 'NAME' w/ gensym ?' but no trivial way to do it )
2fcf721cffa0c6d9…ffa0c6d9…2023-04-26 20:54:02 <asciilifeform> ( what it currently loox like in use ftr )
7dc26bae2fcf721c…2fcf721c…2023-04-26 20:56:49 <asciilifeform> as reader might've guessed, the exact value of 'repl_command_##NAME' -- unimportant, so long as globally unique under all known compiler & 'alignments of planets'
5186f6077dc26bae…7dc26bae…2023-04-26 20:57:54 asciilifeform was rather surprised, after ~3 decades of suffering with cpp, that there's 0 clean traditional way to make this
fde696925186f607…5186f607…2023-04-26 20:59:41 <asciilifeform> ...all the dross that's been added to cpp standard, but this -- nowhere to be found
139d8d0efde69692…fde69692…2023-04-26 21:03:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025674 << was asciilifeform's 1st thought, but found no way to transform '__FILE__' into an identifier-kosher string in anyffin resembling a portable way
ea371cf6139d8d0e…91127aaa…2023-04-26 21:04:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 15:25:10 phf[4]: maybe using __FILE__ __LINE__ ?
f525d2aeea371cf6…139d8d0e…2023-04-26 21:04:46 <asciilifeform> ( and, interestingly, both __FILE__ and __LINE__ appear to choke clion's macroexpander thing )
22412493f525d2ae…294ab9c3…2023-04-26 21:08:24 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025680 << well you gotta study the example in http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025678 to understand how to solve
45867e4322412493…ea371cf6…2023-04-26 21:09:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 16:50:49 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-26#1025676 << possibly asciilifeform not read sufficiently carefully, but seems as if wouldn't work from inside anuther macro (which is where it was needed)
41e8a07e45867e43…45867e43…2023-04-26 21:09:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 15:46:29 phf[4]: http://okturing.com/src/15646/body
9d58a58e41e8a07e…22412493…2023-04-26 21:09:10 <phf> the idea is that you include the same file twice, with different definition of the macro
7e79e556375fb620…375fb620…2023-04-26 21:15:43 <asciilifeform> if one could #define inside a #define (spoiler: mnope) this could be made edible. but as it is, lol
cf54e28e7e79e556…9d58a58e…2023-04-26 21:16:10 <phf> well, it /works/, but i didn't promise it'll be elegant
3cd760d4cf54e28e…7e79e556…2023-04-26 21:16:37 <asciilifeform> rright and a++ for 'obf c contest' but asciilifeform's orig. atrocity was strictly so to increase readability..
163c5d873cd760d4…cf54e28e…2023-04-26 21:18:38 <phf> in general though c requires some level of dry rejection. dry is gay anyway. void querycmd(char *q) ...; elsewhere registercmd("?", querycmd);
573a0b58163c5d87…3cd760d4…2023-04-26 21:19:54 <asciilifeform> well it's a cpp atrocity, so was able to banish the 'register' thing by baking an indexator thing
0d18aeab573a0b58…573a0b58…2023-04-26 21:20:45 <asciilifeform> ( used for knobs & repl cmds strictly )
46c338bd21c5708d…0d18aeab…2023-04-26 21:21:24 <asciilifeform> orig. wrote with lambdas, but cpp's lambdas behave peculiarly scopewise
9edaa638a93a6a18…46c338bd…2023-04-26 21:22:36 <asciilifeform> ( aaand, also wanted to be able to place knobs/cmds in arbitrary compilation units )
5f9b9b119edaa638…9edaa638…2023-04-26 21:22:58 <asciilifeform> ... rather than a central spittoon as seen damn near errywhere in similar proggies
2204eee4344d895b…5f9b9b11…2023-04-26 21:27:38 asciilifeform 'damaged by lisp', developed long ago severe allergy to spurious entanglement b/w diff parts of proggy, and, in particular, anyffin resembling repetition ('table of knobs' a la trb etc)
b846e1172204eee4…2204eee4…2023-04-26 21:28:34 <asciilifeform> let the fucking machine make the tables.
3e9b9f5bb846e117…344d895b…2023-04-26 21:29:36 <phf> i'm not longer convinced of that principle. i mean we're of similar roots in this respect, but smh "machine making tables" turns into "programmer writes extra code"
243c4e6a3e9b9f5b…b846e117…2023-04-26 21:30:08 <asciilifeform> per asciilifeform's lights, so long as it's '1nce per lifetime extra coad' -- a++
bd69c8c450e8aed3…243c4e6a…2023-04-26 21:32:20 <asciilifeform> i.e. the ancient dream of reusable parts
e9a7a97cbd69c8c4…bd69c8c4…2023-04-26 21:33:23 <asciilifeform> ( as illustrated there , nao if only the thing didn't require pointless but mandatory unique class name to be given )
058db36fe9a7a97c…41e8a07e…2023-04-26 21:34:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 17:21:22 asciilifeform[4]: well it's a cpp atrocity, so was able to banish the 'register' thing by baking an indexator thing
1b3c3022058db36f…e9a7a97c…2023-04-26 21:34:47 <asciilifeform> ^ allows a subclass of arbitrary class to be instantiated at runtime given associated name string
93659167ca8073aa…58f62c5f…2023-04-26 23:47:06 <asciilifeform> phf: it was in asciilifeform's attempt at a pestron yea
e90e68a693659167…93659167…2023-04-26 23:47:58 asciilifeform barely touched subj for several months, recently dusted off
e51d6d88e90e68a6…e90e68a6…2023-04-26 23:49:41 asciilifeform got guism, 'console', uniturdism, and basic sqlite glue working; what remains -- well, the rest, lol
9f45a1337a3df23c…e51d6d88…2023-04-27 15:11:38 <asciilifeform> awt, phf: lol ( and asciilifeform deserves the laff, setting new records for 'geological time' programming )
af564754da8f5c12…7a3df23c…2023-04-27 15:26:04 <awt> asciilifeform: q4 2024 is just my goal for blatta
e3b3102ba7d0bb8e…da8f5c12…2023-04-27 16:15:42 <asciilifeform> awt: notbad. (esp. compared to google et al)
ee98e27a60890994…198c3f0b…2023-04-27 22:10:48 <awt> cgra when I try to press your patch I get an error.
66fa16adee98e27a…ee98e27a…2023-04-27 22:30:35 <awt> Maybe someone else might have better luck with it?
77f735a066fa16ad…e3b3102b…2023-04-28 03:54:17 <asciilifeform> re yest. thrd -- ftr, solved it via the obv lame way.
5a0ecebd77f735a0…058db36f…2023-04-28 03:55:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-26 17:01:09 asciilifeform[4]: ...all the dross that's been added to cpp standard, but this -- nowhere to be found
b80a076e5a0ecebd…c8c5f85f…2023-04-28 07:54:39 <jonsykkel> go replace useless preprocessor with one that does inline lisp
7aa9724a9440b789…66fa16ad…2023-04-29 00:14:15 <awt> I seem to have gotten multithreaded sqlite writes working.
2dd276007aa9724a…9440b789…2023-04-29 00:19:38 <asciilifeform> awt: had nfi that it could write w/out locking
068fdd102dd27600…7aa9724a…2023-04-29 02:02:21 <awt> asciilifeform: just found a python lib that starts up a thread and queues writes properly.
62e088826d01b802…787023e3…2023-04-29 17:59:34 <awt> Lol there appears not to be a system call to safely shutdown a udp socket causing recvfrom to return.
b9fa54b067ca15cb…67ca15cb…2023-04-29 18:23:12 <awt> seems I need to set a flag and send a udp packet to force it to check the flag and close the socket.
df0288313bd8c91e…3bd8c91e…2023-04-29 18:21:58 <jonsykkel> thers a trick to make poll return at least
f88cd7f8df028831…b9fa54b0…2023-04-29 18:25:39 <awt> jonsykkel: I don't see poll() in python's socket api. I could do something with select, but trying to avoid the CPU hit of running select.
303575dc3b4463f8…2dd27600…2023-04-29 19:34:02 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-29#1025748 << this is traditionally handled by firing a packet at yerself
a582b342303575dc…5a0ecebd…2023-04-29 19:35:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-29 14:01:03 awt[5]: Lol there appears not to be a system call to safely shutdown a udp socket causing recvfrom to return.
6a45f0dbbb3d1e35…f88cd7f8…2023-04-30 05:00:37 <awt> Got a basic wire protocol going between client <-> station over a tcp connection using json. One step closer to being irc-free.
0561d5f6491a3543…a447ad3e…2023-04-30 13:08:34 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-27#1025736 << it's just a loose vpatch. were you trying to press with a complete v proggy? if were, should use plain vpatch utility instead
fe76c18d0561d5f6…a582b342…2023-04-30 13:10:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-27 18:12:14 awt: cgra when I try to press your patch I get an error.
e0a07718edd7698c…edd7698c…2023-04-30 15:13:24 <awt> part of the error message: 200~raised VPATCH.STATE : from hash doesn't match
30e6ff7762816d75…e0a07718…2023-04-30 15:20:54 <awt> cgra afak with v.py you just tell it the patch you want to target and it works backward from there and 9971 is defintely in the patches directory.
5e744aec30e6ff77…30e6ff77…2023-04-30 15:25:46 <awt> cgra: in any cases I'm re-architecting - there will be station server you can connect to via a tcp socket that you can send json formatted commands to.
2a9983a15e744aec…62816d75…2023-04-30 15:25:47 <cgra> awt: i'm using diana coman's v-tools and its' vpatch utility. i'm not currently aware how v.py differs in the wild patch case. i used vpatch the same as i'd been using the linux 'patch' utility. including: perhaps need to use the '-p' parameter (ie. how much path prefix to strip when applying)
1c33e4f42a9983a1…5e744aec…2023-04-30 15:27:11 <awt> cgra: this should make building clients much easier.
1e4d22ba1c33e4f4…2a9983a1…2023-04-30 15:28:23 <cgra> awt: nice, looking forward to know more in time!
99c5480b1e4d22ba…00000000…2023-04-30 17:40:26 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-30#1025770 << there's no dash in the name vtools, and diana coman has no contribution to the project whatsover
b7caf2f599c5480b…fe76c18d…2023-04-30 17:41:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-30 11:27:16 cgra[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]: awt: i'm using diana coman's v-tools and its' vpatch utility. i'm not currently aware how v.py differs in the wild patch case. i used vpatch the same as i'd been using the linux 'patch' utility. including: perhaps need to use the '-p' parameter (ie. how much path
236406d6b7caf2f5…1e4d22ba…2023-04-30 20:06:27 <cgra> ah, pardon my ignorance and/or loose expression
edd02861236406d6…1c33e4f4…2023-05-01 02:24:56 <awt> My laptop is impervious to installations of python gui libs, it seems.
08b708ffc2aae197…fd1c1cb6…2023-05-02 14:42:20 billymg is looking forward to when a sandwich only costs ~2k sats
10e328b93e8be935…81ca4ca8…2023-05-04 20:47:56 <awt> asciilifeform: in your gui, how are you displaying threads?
8128c4e310e328b9…10e328b9…2023-05-04 21:17:05 <awt> Is every message except the very first on a net on a thread?
bc434244f145664f…f145664f…2023-05-04 21:25:29 <awt> I guess any message without an antecedent should get it's own root until an antecedent is found.
bf5c02c6bc434244…9fd503b5…2023-05-04 21:28:47 <asciilifeform> awt: only got as far as linear display (by chain) toggleable w/ strictly chronological
dc1b62dcbf5c02c6…bf5c02c6…2023-05-04 21:29:11 <asciilifeform> where w/out antecedent -- shown chronologically
6c20bb9adc1b62dc…dc1b62dc…2023-05-04 21:29:40 <asciilifeform> and yes inevitably 'multiple roots' (how else, if >1 w/out antecedent)
f09c0ac06c20bb9a…6c20bb9a…2023-05-04 21:30:29 asciilifeform given as not has actual working 'engine' yet, tested strictly w/ canned msgs
ba1351c3f09c0ac0…bc434244…2023-05-04 21:44:29 <awt> Not entirely sure how to handle root selection for sending new messages. If every message is a reply to the previous, the thread could get very deep, which causes display issues.
bd7ad875ba1351c3…ba1351c3…2023-05-04 22:05:45 <awt> Could perhaps have a configurable depth limit and add new roots once exceeded with some sort of affordance to navigate to the antecedent.
effa6301bd7ad875…bd7ad875…2023-05-04 22:19:19 <awt> Could have a sort of "mixed" view where "replies" are a series of messages that all use the same antecedent and are displayed chronologically *under* that single message when expanded.
24491c2aeffa6301…effa6301…2023-05-04 22:30:23 <awt> Or alternatively, top level linear display but an affordance to "view/reply" in context where you get a tree view, with notifications and/or annotations for messages with antecedents > configurable age that may be off the page.
293ed224b9f3a959…3a2f7b1a…2023-05-06 02:33:23 <awt> I'm going to go with a master detail view for now. Click on a message and then in the detail view you can navigate up and down the chain.
d0af9d97293ed224…293ed224…2023-05-06 15:00:13 <awt> asciilifeform, phf: are you doing any paging out of the db for the gui? Or all in memory?
d56e0bdbd0af9d97…00000000…2023-05-06 23:16:21 <phf> awt, i don't have a db. and the only person who knows, at the moment, is jonsykkel, because his pest properly tracks chains. i initially kept packets in a memory mmaped file vector, but after rewriting with an online graph, i realized i need to rethink storage.
8b34f182d56e0bdb…d56e0bdb…2023-05-06 23:19:32 <phf> i'm not really doing "proper architecture", like with btcbase this pest version is opportunity to try out various alternative approaches, even if they wouldn't make sense in Real Programs. for all i know the "rethought storage" will end up some kind of graph database, where i do on lc #>@J3NiU Ya
201b0cd98b34f182…8b34f182…2023-05-06 23:19:32 <phf> ly partial khan walk (the more you walk, the more data is lifted from storage to memory? smt like that) lc #>@J3NiU Ya
9cde2efa201b0cd9…201b0cd9…2023-05-06 23:20:34 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-22#1025580 << that's not a reason not to bants
c89f52f69cde2efa…b7caf2f5…2023-05-06 23:22:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-22 10:30:25 signpost: picked up a new fiat gig, will be eating some attention for a while as I ramp up.
d825f4e7c89f52f6…d0af9d97…2023-05-07 00:39:10 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025803 << what does "properly tracks chains" mean here (trying to figure out if blatta does this)?
ea5abdb7d825f4e7…c89f52f6…2023-05-07 00:40:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-06 19:17:52 phf[4]: awt, i don't have a db. and the only person who knows, at the moment, is jonsykkel, because his pest properly tracks chains. i initially kept packets in a memory mmaped file vector, but after rewriting with an online graph, i realized i need to rethink storage.
a9710d43ea5abdb7…9cde2efa…2023-05-07 02:52:12 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025808 << it's section 5.4.1.2 of predraft, “If the originator believes that he is sending a BroadcastText to the net for the first time, SelfChain may be set to equal Zero[32]. However, in this case, every receiver of the Message will be warned28 of this fact.”
72198d73a9710d43…ea5abdb7…2023-05-07 02:53:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-06 20:40:39 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025803 << what does "properly tracks chains" mean here (trying to figure out if blatta does this)?
d09dfe1372198d73…7cb21f0b…2023-05-07 14:19:55 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025806 << naw I'm still around
4299187cd09dfe13…72198d73…2023-05-07 14:21:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-06 19:22:03 phf[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-22#1025580 << that's not a reason not to bants
b2c142fd4299187c…00000000…2023-05-07 14:38:49 <phf> tbf that delay between your original message and my comment…
a2af085f50a329f5…d825f4e7…2023-05-07 19:41:16 <awt> Some sort of BRC thing going on - rare pepes being wash traded on the Bitcoin blockchain via "inscriptions"
ee16c894a2af085f…d09dfe13…2023-05-07 21:05:46 <signpost> here's something to ponder. BTC price floor for the past 4 years has been predictable from difficulty alone. https://www.tradingview.com/x/IaNPNGCr/
10a4e0bbee16c894…ee16c894…2023-05-07 21:06:40 <signpost> and if I were smart enough to model block reward in tradingview, I could probably get the entire history horizontal.
cd0a8c33c8826d18…c8826d18…2023-05-07 21:08:07 <signpost> probably blockReward / totalSupply or something like that oughta be in the equation.
b6d171f5cd0a8c33…f09c0ac0…2023-05-07 21:36:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: iirc there's 1 coming up later this yr, can see whether pattern still appears
fe85ca87b6d171f5…b6d171f5…2023-05-07 21:37:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-07#1025818 << this lul at least decade old (iirc mp wrote about it in '13)
815ea298fe85ca87…4299187c…2023-05-07 21:39:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-07 15:42:45 awt: Some sort of BRC thing going on - rare pepes being wash traded on the Bitcoin blockchain via "inscriptions"
01cb8b15f7f2b44c…f7f2b44c…2023-05-07 21:38:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025804 << imho is exactly the way to go about it.
5e9a473601cb8b15…815ea298…2023-05-07 21:40:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-06 19:21:02 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: i'm not really doing "proper architecture", like with btcbase this pest version is opportunity to try out various alternative approaches, even if they wouldn't make sense in Real Programs. for all i know the "rethought storage" will end up some kind of graph dat
3ad8dff95e9a4736…01cb8b15…2023-05-07 21:39:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-06#1025802 << sqlite query to fill the display, w/out any clever caching
b6abaff63ad8dff9…5e9a4736…2023-05-07 21:41:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-06 11:01:41 awt: asciilifeform, phf: are you doing any paging out of the db for the gui? Or all in memory?
065645e2b6abaff6…a2af085f…2023-05-07 23:36:24 <awt> Found an interesting graph "layer" for sqlite: https://github.com/dpapathanasiou/simple-graph
a75c46331ff042be…1ff042be…2023-05-08 20:55:30 <awt> For ex: traversed netchain at a random point and it was just a series of messages from crtdaydreams.
da7c67ada75c4633…a75c4633…2023-05-08 20:57:36 <awt> Here is the initial message (base64 encoded): lRdllgFHBq5Pj59H7dNTT+zIOwgtIx4cNIrlVGgX20s=
0c057790da7c67ad…3b4463f8…2023-05-08 20:57:28 <jonsykkel> likely cuz of this http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-13#1023160 as hes using my pestron
d7c038e20c057790…b6abaff6…2023-05-08 21:02:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-13 01:43:50 jonsykkel: unpx: crtdaydreams: AAAAAAAAAAAAACHHHHHHHHHHTUNG!!!!!! CRITICAL update, fixing unset netchain: http://zzz.st/progz/
4911244bd7c038e2…da7c67ad…2023-05-08 21:01:18 <awt> jonsykkel: I thought that might be the case. Using an older dump of my blatta db.
dcaca36b4911244b…00000000…2023-05-08 21:10:48 <phf> there's probably some eventual future, where we collectively enable a "kick bozo chains" flag, which starts enforcing all the different spec requirements when it comes to correct self/net chain values
758b02b18f15ffa4…3ad8dff9…2023-05-08 22:37:31 <asciilifeform> the q of wat-do with sad old chains is open atm
a6d11270758b02b1…758b02b1…2023-05-08 22:37:58 <asciilifeform> not all of'em likely even reachable via getdata.
e5b75c89a6d11270…a6d11270…2023-05-08 22:39:20 asciilifeform tentatively ok with the 'if it can't be getdata'd, it neverhappened' exterminatus
814f5b96e5b75c89…4911244b…2023-05-09 03:27:07 <awt> asciilifeform: is the latest version of the pest spec the one in which BroadcastTextM and DirectTextM have their own unique command ids?
bb464f8b814f5b96…e5b75c89…2023-05-09 14:08:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-08#1025846 << correct (still needs megatonne of revision, and asciilifeform again mired in salt mines)
51bdd2dfbb464f8b…d7c038e2…2023-05-09 14:10:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-08 23:28:36 awt: asciilifeform: is the latest version of the pest spec the one in which BroadcastTextM and DirectTextM have their own unique command ids?
4eb8faf251bdd2df…814f5b96…2023-05-09 15:31:34 <awt> asciilifeform: do you have a plan to become unmired or permanently mired?
f4e67ccd5f3d6bf6…5f3d6bf6…2023-05-09 15:33:03 <asciilifeform> ( hypothetically -- if, lol, 'exch rate grows a 0 and a half' -- perma-unmired. but 'if wishes were horses' etc )
27586b08f4e67ccd…4eb8faf2…2023-05-09 15:34:12 <awt> my contract ended so I am pretty free for a while. gonna try to make the most of it.
4a27275527586b08…f4e67ccd…2023-05-09 15:34:14 <asciilifeform> and, conversely, suppose when asciilifeform gives up the ghost, can be termed 'perma-mired'.
f9a381664a272755…4a272755…2023-05-09 15:37:21 <asciilifeform> awt: congrats (?) on the 'pretty free'
f2bab011e50abeb7…e50abeb7…2023-05-09 15:55:04 <awt> In terms of referencing pest messages in guis, might be nice to be able to reference message hashes like so: pest://iOPjv7o9y8tz0FxeqKXawulIEYBK9Z9cXWCniNE8+z4= - click on it and your gui displays it somehow.
58e3d2f9f2bab011…00000000…2023-05-09 16:46:10 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025857 << same mechanism should probably be used for quotes. i dunno how well ascii's idea of implicit chains "everything is a reply to something" will work in practice, so it would be cool to retain some legacy hybrid solution, e.g. something like,
abe2313a58e3d2f9…51bdd2df…2023-05-09 16:47:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-09 11:56:32 awt: In terms of referencing pest messages in guis, might be nice to be able to reference message hashes like so: pest://iOPjv7o9y8tz0FxeqKXawulIEYBK9Z9cXWCniNE8+z4= - click on it and your gui displays it somehow.
ea225f82abe2313a…58e3d2f9…2023-05-09 16:46:26 <phf> pest://iOPjv7o9y8tz0FxeqKXawulIEYBK9Z9cXWCniNE8+z4= << hello, world
0df1cf1cea225f82…ea225f82…2023-05-09 16:46:40 <phf> should be an equivalent of log reference that we do now
561144dc664a01a9…f2bab011…2023-05-09 17:49:03 <awt> phf: yes I can see that. Should be able to insert a following line shomehow.
28dd53cd561144dc…664a01a9…2023-05-09 17:55:20 <phf> this way the ref doesn't need to be inline anymore either. web loggers can display the referred messages in some visual way, and so can clients
5acd941e28dd53cd…561144dc…2023-05-09 18:16:41 <awt> phf: could also do footnote style quotes (iOPjv7o9y8tz0FxeqKXawulIEYBK9Z9cXWCniNE8+z4=) (IBsM2cqkUtTU9pwDUD5nB9Xe6Z61+q8IuqK22R0UzNg=) that open up a pane when the message is selected.
251b92d35acd941e…28dd53cd…2023-05-09 18:29:32 <phf> well, i think that each client can do whatever ux, so we're discussing in-band format and behaviors.
15b3f174251b92d3…251b92d3…2023-05-09 18:30:56 <phf> as far as behaviors, the proposal i'm making is that in the future™ there will be no need to quote the original message, because every cilent (desktop or web logger) can just render the message however is convenient
197b5db8ef3bd5d1…15b3f174…2023-05-09 18:32:33 <phf> this is eliminate the noise, but also the weird threading issues, where you quote a logger, and then somebody else says something, and then the logger sends the original message eventually
9e577a2b197b5db8…197b5db8…2023-05-09 18:33:57 <phf> so if i say something like pest://fff… the client can look up fff in its own database or do a getdata, and then render the result wherever is convenient
3e7167539e577a2b…9e577a2b…2023-05-09 18:34:54 <phf> as far as in-band format, i don't have preferences, they are all pretty ugly. this possibly also opens up the conversation about RTF messages
249ea07b3e716753…3e716753…2023-05-09 18:38:13 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#a3d805168e646d9543fcb397755564a06fdd6c665632434dc0c51e73d8517905f21e1c1126bb213e3e10268e8a0c2972c85fcba72c9df06751680637f5a6688d :D
87d67ced249ea07b…249ea07b…2023-05-09 18:40:32 <phf> ah never mind it's 256, so more like #62b5bb83ed9289828f73e4f4d51c9b8a61e7bb57d25e2e539ae3e7916c5229e3
48c4792187d67ced…87d67ced…2023-05-09 18:40:59 <phf> or #YrW7g+2SiYKPc+T01RybimHnu1fSXi5TmuPnkWxSKeM= in base64
61a1727648c47921…cd0a8c33…2023-05-09 19:48:08 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025860 << hot
c2222a6661a17276…abe2313a…2023-05-09 19:49:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-09 12:47:57 phf[4]: pest://iOPjv7o9y8tz0FxeqKXawulIEYBK9Z9cXWCniNE8+z4= << hello, world
68f0b5e0c2222a66…61a17276…2023-05-09 19:50:31 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-07#1025823 << should be apr 21, 2024 for next, at block 840,000
7fe4d3c168f0b5e0…c2222a66…2023-05-09 19:52:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-07 17:37:32 asciilifeform[5]: signpost: iirc there's 1 coming up later this yr, can see whether pattern still appears
69ac9bcd7fe4d3c1…48c47921…2023-05-09 22:31:00 <phf> jonsykkel, i'm getting keyoffers from you, i've rigged the response manually, i've sent keyoffer and keyslice, but i'm not getting any keyslice back.
bd5fd54769ac9bcd…69ac9bcd…2023-05-09 22:35:26 <phf> hmm, never mind i seem to have managed to do a keyoffer keyslice roundtrip, but i'm still getting packets from you with old key
ae46569ef2c64cbd…b2222543…2023-05-09 23:02:24 <jonsykkel> my pestron waits for ignore pakets after the sliceing, u sending those?
e8f6ef1336403068…f2c64cbd…2023-05-09 23:06:40 <phf> hmm, i'm sending them, but on a pretty random schedule
db639fbee8f6ef13…e8f6ef13…2023-05-09 23:07:23 <phf> yeah, the last timeout looks like that's what it is
c86c07dedb639fbe…36403068…2023-05-09 23:04:30 <jonsykkel> theres step11-12 in the http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_draft.html#44-rekeying
6eb92d43db639fbe…db639fbe…2023-05-09 23:08:28 <phf> and those ignore packets should be with the new key slice?
e4a919e164a70def…f9a38166…2023-05-09 23:12:40 asciilifeform lulzily got hung up on getting algo flowchart formatting to work w/ 'hevea', so to this day not finished sect 7 & buncha other similar in new spec
8461851a88e1b9a3…88e1b9a3…2023-05-09 23:09:15 <jonsykkel> i guess the point of the ignores etc is to make sure both partys calced the same new key
6b79b0ebe4a919e1…e4a919e1…2023-05-09 23:13:50 asciilifeform absolutely refuses to maintain 2 flavours of spec src text
128c9e6c6b79b0eb…9c4cab76…2023-05-09 23:11:01 <jonsykkel> or maybe ur question was "why ignore and not just any packet"
dbd3f9d1128c9e6c…64a70def…2023-05-09 23:14:12 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025899 << but that's already implicit in the protocol. unless i'm missing something the only reason keys will be different, is because client is broken. on the other hand it's a pretty safe assumption that it might be. but on the other hand i A=(DB+WyL@51"Mhfa4<
2b4296c7dbd3f9d1…dbd3f9d1…2023-05-09 23:14:12 <phf> f you're going to do that then there probably shouldn't be a timeout A=(DB+WyL@51"Mhfa4<
0f24862edbd3f9d1…7fe4d3c1…2023-05-09 23:15:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-09 19:13:58 jonsykkel: i guess the point of the ignores etc is to make sure both partys calced the same new key
cf1c958c0f24862e…6b79b0eb…2023-05-09 23:15:12 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: rationale was, ignore 1) shows that new key 'happened' 2) but not logged and hence not complicates life on either side of the peering if 'not worked'
4cc19d6dcf1c958c…2b4296c7…2023-05-09 23:18:24 <phf> so in other words there's a mandatory ignore after rekey
c26124a663e3eb59…3bcba49f…2023-05-09 23:24:24 asciilifeform haunted by suspicion that the rekey algo could be made simpler, or at least stated moar compactly; but not presently knows how
729e9cc6c26124a6…63e3eb59…2023-05-09 23:22:10 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025906 << if ttheres no timeout tho, guy who sent last slice doesnt know if other guy recv it or not
1036a99c729e9cc6…c26124a6…2023-05-09 23:25:19 <asciilifeform> the orig. notion was, 1) new key cannot be forced to an apriori-known value by buggy/sabotaged client on 1 end of peering 2) old key will not under any circumstances vanish on either end until both peers satisfied that they agreed on new one
9724570d729e9cc6…0f24862e…2023-05-09 23:26:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-09 19:15:49 phf[deedbot|signpost]: f you're going to do that then there probably shouldn't be a timeout
9c3b63e09724570d…1036a99c…2023-05-09 23:25:42 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: there's a timeout 'Tk' , see old draft spec
8bfff6679c3b63e0…9c3b63e0…2023-05-09 23:26:12 <asciilifeform> 'A rekeying is deemed to have aborted (any slice Sx, as well as Kn if it has been generated -- discarded by the station) if it does not complete within an operator-specified interval Tk.'
eedb3652d832635f…a18ed95e…2023-05-09 23:25:37 <jonsykkel> spek dosnt make entirely clear exactly at which point the rekeying is to be considered "complete" however
bf6529adeedb3652…d832635f…2023-05-09 23:29:06 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025904 << rekey can fail simply from loss of 1 or moar of the pertinent packets
2762083fbf6529ad…9724570d…2023-05-09 23:30:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-09 19:15:47 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-09#1025899 << but that's already implicit in the protocol. unless i'm missing something the only reason keys will be different, is because client is broken. on the other hand it's a pretty safe assumption that it might be. but
b302db682762083f…eedb3652…2023-05-09 23:26:58 <jonsykkel> iirc my client considers it complete after the ignore recved
0124e84f8356f0a7…bf6529ad…2023-05-09 23:30:53 <asciilifeform> intent of given algo is that a rekey is effective after each peer has eaten a packet from the other under the new key
ad6865380124e84f…0124e84f…2023-05-09 23:31:48 <asciilifeform> ( after satisfied that the slices were baked independently )
1cab7c568c3be53d…8c3be53d…2023-05-09 23:32:37 <phf> i wasn't really thinking about it, just going by spec
1b74aeef1cab7c56…1cab7c56…2023-05-09 23:37:03 <phf> i probably would've put the key into some kind of cubby hole, and let the counterparty start using it whenever it feels like, within some large limit
b70de6d98393ced0…8393ced0…2023-05-09 23:39:04 <asciilifeform> ('cubby' seems like an unnecessary moving part imho)
80716859b70de6d9…1b74aeef…2023-05-09 23:39:48 <phf> yeah, i'm not sure i think you're probably right
ff168c5f80716859…ef3bd5d1…2023-05-09 23:59:13 <awt> Ugh. Trouble with a graphing db with a forest instead of a tree is - what's the latest message? Do I have to check every node?
b5d9bab0d94dee8c…d94dee8c…2023-05-10 00:07:12 <awt> Hmm actually not that bad: SELECT * FROM nodes ORDER BY json_extract(body, '$.timestamp') DESC LIMIT 1;
941f53010c703d88…0c703d88…2023-05-10 17:54:03 <awt> Was generating a fixture for testing population of the peers list just now. First peer was asciilifeform. Github copilot autogenerated the next peer and populated the name field with "ben_vulpes".
28fbf7fd941f5301…941f5301…2023-05-10 17:56:10 <awt> oh lord. next one it came up with was danielpbarron.
76fe11752013e5be…2013e5be…2023-05-10 18:19:14 <asciilifeform> afaik thing fed ~100% from vintage logs, so unsurprise tho.
69cdf2c50000000000000000…2023-03-31 13:49:49 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-30#1025378 << i quite like plan9's mothra, which is imho the level of "html" that is sufficient. there are equivalents (for some definition of) on posix, dillo, netsurf. just enough to render bold/italic, tables, links, inline images
5695cd8f69cdf2c5…db754067…2023-03-31 13:51:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 16:46:06 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: PeterL, asciilifeform: indeed, but what then? I may have a comfy machine for working and then a machine for specific bank/gov stuff, but then what would you have in that work machine? wget, lynx port, Konqueror, Pale Moon? Or would you reduce documents to TXT
fe5ab0ef5695cd8f…69cdf2c5…2023-03-31 13:51:38 <phf> i have a script that produces my weekly rss/atom. it just dumps everything into one giant html. (it's got some clever filters, like if it's a wordpress, it downloads the original article and inlines everything inside <article>...</article>)
e5784ad1fe5ab0ef…fe5ab0ef…2023-03-31 13:54:00 <phf> the html that i get opens fine in a variety of 90s browsers, including mothra. it's a sufficiently "multimedia" experience, that is it provides the periodic dopamine hit, like i'm fully interacting with the world wide web. things that are broken tend to be things that one should avoid anyway.
be58252fe5784ad1…e5784ad1…2023-03-31 13:56:21 <phf> http://plan9.stanleylieber.com/mothra/img/20150203.png
18b43d6fbe58252f…be58252f…2023-03-31 13:57:31 <phf> a lot of other "standard web shit" is scripted anyway, like i don't ever open youtube anymore, youtubedown/youtube-dl covers whatever streaming services
a0392bf818b43d6f…18b43d6f…2023-03-31 13:59:51 <phf> the things for which i need modern browser are banks and other web presence of various service providers. car payments, utilities, etc.
dfdc5ad6a0392bf8…a0392bf8…2023-03-31 14:03:20 <phf> considering that they are the babylon, i don't see any reason to try and shoehorn them into some kind of purity system. e.g. my bank doesn't open in any browsers on openbsd. just tells me "try another browser". i think the only solution for something like that is to have a good boy 2>F=:~ϼ35>_Qz
bd2fd617dfdc5ad6…dfdc5ad6…2023-03-31 14:03:20 <phf> machine, on the analogy with toilet machine. a machine that has all the trappings of participation with the minimal exposure. you pick it up if you need to send a message to facebook boomer, or check your bank or whatever. 2>F=:~ϼ35>_Qz
f4e72e4dbd2fd617…bd2fd617…2023-03-31 14:07:32 <phf> in general i think that asciilifeform is too pesimistic about the whole browser thing, considering that compartmenalization ("if you're poor you should only have one machine, through which the system fucks you" etc) is a tmsr foundational principle
0cd271fcf4e72e4d…1cfbc46e…2023-03-31 15:37:08 <asciilifeform> phf defo has a point. asciilifeform tho fwiw remembers when could 'errything on 1 box'. and as it happens suffers from a rather fantastic overproliferation of compartments (1 box per client, 'human' box, buncha others... is getting unwieldy)
162ef7d90cd271fc…0cd271fc…2023-03-31 15:41:16 asciilifeform remembers '1st swallow of spring' there, when ~decade ago finally gave up on printing from linux
208e4992737dd6b6…737dd6b6…2023-03-31 18:05:19 <asciilifeform> 'It goes without saying that a drug dealer’s crime proceeds, here Ulbricht’s, do not exist in a lawless, grey area whereby they are free to be stolen, invested, and spent by criminals with no repercussions. Indeed, the Government regularly prosecutes robberies of drug dealers, notwithstanding that the victims of such c
a6bfd459208e4992…208e4992…2023-03-31 18:05:20 <asciilifeform> rimes are, definitionally, engaged in criminal activity themselves.'
d548b8cca6bfd459…a6bfd459…2023-03-31 18:06:28 <asciilifeform> ( d00d accused of scamming ye olde silkroad. disgorged coinz in torture room, these are nao being waterfalled )
1a6662a5d548b8cc…be8453f1…2023-03-31 23:43:15 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-03-31#1025383 <<< Looks like symbolic computation fits best near the end user since one may prefer some laws over some others. Moreover some algorithms do not work with symbols, since they require numbers or vectors...
5880e21a1a6662a5…5695cd8f…2023-03-31 23:44:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-31 08:41:00 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: I'm currently trying to sort code I wrote over the time for alchemy, it is silly I get stuck on such trivial task
ba3b6e65c63c1ba8…88b788a8…2023-04-06 02:20:25 <jonsykkel> in other retreatings into own technology stack from outside inferior world
abc76001ba3b6e65…ba3b6e65…2023-04-06 02:20:33 <jonsykkel> reader works, next problem is that it takes 9sec to consoom 7gb ram reading its own 500line "boot code", lol
773e5af1abc76001…abc76001…2023-04-06 02:20:46 <jonsykkel> tho i delibrately made 0 eforrt yet to optimize cpu/ram in both vm and lisp code
d3eecbb7773e5af1…773e5af1…2023-04-06 02:20:53 <jonsykkel> unfortunatly gona have to do some of that so i dont have to turn off www browser to run prog
4876cb1d7a4a7760…efba8aba…2023-04-06 17:13:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-05#1025417 << waiwat?! ( post the src ? )
590c4bba4876cb1d…5880e21a…2023-04-06 17:14:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-05 22:24:35 jonsykkel: reader works, next problem is that it takes 9sec to consoom 7gb ram reading its own 500line "boot code", lol
8c81e334590c4bba…4876cb1d…2023-04-06 18:30:05 <asciilifeform> in entirely unrelated noose, asciilifeform finally found orig inventor of this ancient algo. updated page.
eaa7dd2b8c81e334…d3eecbb7…2023-04-06 18:38:06 <jonsykkel> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-06#1025422 << good question, evry loop is implemented in terms of recursion so theres a couple calls in total (37mil)
6e4f560feaa7dd2b…590c4bba…2023-04-06 18:42:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-04-06 13:14:34 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-04-05#1025417 << waiwat?! ( post the src ? )
ed1877b26e4f560f…eaa7dd2b…2023-04-06 18:38:09 <jonsykkel> and evry function call is 7+2*arg_n conses, evry cons is 16byte
f7b9178bed1877b2…ed1877b2…2023-04-06 18:38:11 <jonsykkel> and i have no tail recursion optimization yet, but according to 5am calculations that can at most cut ram in half or so
f2be89c0f7b9178b…f7b9178b…2023-04-06 18:38:27 <jonsykkel> http://zzz.st/code/smalisp/tree/src/c99 && http://zzz.st/code/smalisp/tree/src/boot.scm
03b0b095f2be89c0…f2be89c0…2023-04-06 18:39:06 <jonsykkel> (compiled with tmp bootstrap compiler in here http://zzz.st/code/smalisp/tree/tools)
9c2ca33f03b0b095…03b0b095…2023-04-06 18:39:42 <jonsykkel> boot.scm written in careless way partly to see wat hapens if "just write some code"
6e6ab3c165ed08dd…65ed08dd…2023-04-06 18:39:53 <jonsykkel> but i will try to figure out exactly why its so fuking bad
6b80b3ebea1d0dce…00000000…2023-05-11 13:46:46 <phf> jonsykkel, just fyi, i'm getting a getdata for 0 from you
809f1fecbbb6e0f7…bbb6e0f7…2023-05-11 14:25:52 <phf> Never before had Brother Francis actually seen a pilgrim with girded loins, but that this one was the bona fide article he was convinced as soon as he had recovered from the spine-chilling effect of the pilgrim’s advent on the far horizon, as a wiggling iota of black caught in a |-w+-r [ d-[
3d0b8edb809f1fec…809f1fec…2023-05-11 14:25:52 <phf> shimmering haze of heat. Legless, but wearing a tiny head, the iota materialized out of the mirror glaze on the broken roadway and seemed more to writhe than to walk into view, causing Brother Francis to clutch the crucifix of his rosary and mutter an Ave or two. The iota suggested |-w+-r [ d-[
297c87ed3d0b8edb…3d0b8edb…2023-05-11 14:25:52 <phf> a tiny apparition spawned by the heat demons who tortured the land at high noon, when any creature capable of motion on the desert (except the buzzards and a few monastic hermits such as Francis) lay motionless in its burrow |-w+-r [ d-[
c1a0a5a12b6ed14d…2b6ed14d…2023-05-11 14:34:37 <phf> my conclusion about tk/ltk is that it's just too brittle and half baked to do live development with. you end up writing new tcl code, writing lisp code for product and while trying to improve corner case behavior of ltk itself. when things crash the whole system goes down, often to 2"\`bz$:DYHst
22203d3ec1a0a5a1…c1a0a5a1…2023-05-11 14:34:37 <phf> kill -9 state. so i'm going to try and implement things in lispworks, and i guess make gui modular, so that eventually it can be ported out, once the general ideas and algorithms have been settled 2"\`bz$:DYHst
70f8090622203d3e…27523ae6…2023-05-11 15:07:09 <awt> phf: I have lispworks and can test if you ever need it.
8e2e368770f80906…70f80906…2023-05-11 15:13:13 <awt> Would also be interested in what corner cases you ran into with tcl/tk, as I'm currently using tkinter.
18726aa4e5faaf0a…e5faaf0a…2023-05-11 15:15:50 asciilifeform still, sloowly, plugging along with wx. where, hilariously, cppism per se, rather than the gui lib, turned out to be the chief torment
29f3569118726aa4…22203d3e…2023-05-11 15:22:00 <phf> awt, well you're hacking from python, so you do lots of restarts. i'm running it in lisp, so it's a long running instance that i don't want to lock or crash, because it brings down the context
1f67120e29f35691…29f35691…2023-05-11 15:23:03 <phf> and the way ltk talks to tcl/tk is basically using a kind of swank, sending strings with commands around
d13f18c51f67120e…1f67120e…2023-05-11 15:25:11 <phf> meanwhile i'm trying to use the text widget in a way where i can update and replace large chunks based the updates of the khan sorting order. so it's a lot of like "delete a region for hash X, insert a new region after hash Y". it works on tcl/tk side great, but the interop is less dL։RC"FT3c
6fa89366d13f18c5…d13f18c5…2023-05-11 15:25:11 <phf> than ideal, because the ops i'm trying to do are not built in, so i'm writing lots of tcl to do non-trivial things, etc. dL։RC"FT3c
43686b996fa89366…6fa89366…2023-05-11 15:27:15 <phf> and the only reason i was using tk is because i was thinking in terms of how it can run on other people's machines, but that requirement ended up adding friction to dev process, and then i remembered that it's a hobby hacking project.
5c79fdfb43686b99…18726aa4…2023-05-11 15:29:06 <asciilifeform> in re: 'simplest that runs on just this-here box' -- iirc phf even had 1 on bolix ?
80cd0c615c79fdfb…8e2e3687…2023-05-11 23:31:02 <awt> https://imgur.com/a/G1AeCll << Alas - I've just discovered that Tkinter does not support multiline rows.
cbdc37ee80cd0c61…80cd0c61…2023-05-11 23:32:13 <awt> You have to increase the row height and then add newlines to the text. Gross.
99a38a81cbdc37ee…43686b99…2023-05-11 23:58:10 <phf> awt, i gave up on the idea of list based log, which complicated things significantly. can you even do styling in rows?
18fc653199a38a81…99a38a81…2023-05-12 00:00:21 <phf> you can't style rows, can't do inline images, can't do multiline. sometimes it's supported, but you need to do liek "feature matrix". multiline rows in qt, but no images. images in tk, but no multline.
dbe3602318fc6531…5c79fdfb…2023-05-12 00:01:20 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform found that in wx, similarly , gotta 'hand draw' the screen on scroll to get anyffin like the ui one would want (inline images, variable-height blocks of text)
8bc7adb371cd5431…71cd5431…2023-05-12 00:02:01 asciilifeform not yet, lol, implemented, merely 'found how' in theory
1b56b5ce8bc7adb3…18fc6531…2023-05-12 00:03:21 <phf> both tk and capi "solve" this by having a rich text editor, that supports all the things, but now you have to carefully track regions, etc.
09d8f5d21b56b5ce…8bc7adb3…2023-05-12 00:03:46 asciilifeform tried with wx's 'rich text editor' widget; flickering slugging hell on both x11 and crapple
4a86c45ad2664623…d2664623…2023-05-12 00:04:54 <asciilifeform> the only thing that even theoretically threatens to work is to do it 'as if it were a port of quake', i.e. explicitly draw & double-buffer, and maintain map of regions for the mouse, etc
61f1e7c9b7d40015…b7d40015…2023-05-12 00:07:02 <phf> i mean, if nothing else both tk and capi's rich editors work™. my test run was to load canticle for leibowitz, and then replace all the occurences of word "god" with a random picture from a folder. also random styling. scrolls fine,etc.
4787295961f1e7c9…4a86c45a…2023-05-12 00:08:13 <asciilifeform> wx's text editor 'works', but with a '4k' lcd fulla reasonably small text, slow as all fuck when scrolling/updating
7425720147872959…47872959…2023-05-12 00:08:53 <asciilifeform> ( on 'm2' crapple not slow! but flickers abominably )
09ee5f2d74257201…cbdc37ee…2023-05-12 00:35:21 <awt> Well that significantly pushes back my schedule.
30cb209409ee5f2d…61f1e7c9…2023-05-12 00:42:54 <phf> awt, also keep in mind that because of the whole multi-part messages, you don't get one to one correspondence between hypothetical message index, and it's placement in list
ba4ece8530cb2094…09ee5f2d…2023-05-12 01:38:24 <awt> phf: yes. Been thinking I'll queue them up and insert as soon as the terminal message arrives.
714de5fcba4ece85…ba4ece85…2023-05-12 01:39:28 <awt> Ah but you're right, it breaks the hash per line model.
d93fa35b714de5fc…714de5fc…2023-05-12 01:40:41 <awt> Usually the UI is speced out first, then the requirements for the implementation stem from the design.
858823b39506d45a…74257201…2023-05-12 02:54:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-11#1025987 << asciilifeform's pov re subj is that storing msgs 'as received' for purpose of getdata is sufficiently separate domain from 'db for display' that it oughta be handled 'a la nqb' i.e. 2 entirely separate db
59e24ac3858823b3…2762083f…2023-05-12 02:56:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-11 20:44:24 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: awt, also keep in mind that because of the whole multi-part messages, you don't get one to one correspondence between hypothetical message index, and it's placement in list
d5eaf0ac59e24ac3…858823b3…2023-05-12 02:55:07 <asciilifeform> ... 1 of which is simple key-value store, while the other actually keeps the text in the order in which it is expected to appear on the screen
c1a0c718d5eaf0ac…d5eaf0ac…2023-05-12 02:55:34 <asciilifeform> i.e. you dun want to be parsing black packets errytime the window repaints
43ed1632c1a0c718…c1a0c718…2023-05-12 02:55:56 <asciilifeform> (or the dbized logical expansion of black packets, e.g. individual chunks of multiparts)
7e5e558343ed1632…43ed1632…2023-05-12 02:57:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-11#1025992 << found this to be the case in wx's default 'list view' thing
f7d311977e5e5583…59e24ac3…2023-05-12 02:59:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-11 22:16:10 awt: And rows all have to be the same height.
f38408c7f7d31197…7e5e5583…2023-05-12 03:00:29 asciilifeform after found this, set about baking 'hand-drawn' scroller thing where tried to calculate footprint of text in $string, utterly broke teeth after finding that wx's built-ins that are supposed to make this possible, quite unreliable
e8866b7af38408c7…f38408c7…2023-05-12 03:01:10 <asciilifeform> got it to work for fixed-width font tho (where, unsurprisingly, trivial)
6fd5ec26e8866b7a…e8866b7a…2023-05-12 03:03:19 <asciilifeform> ... to expand re the 'a la nqb' -- chain hashes oughta get looked at strictly when 1) performing getdata 2) when a msg is 1st received and parsed. at which time they oughta turn into straight numeric indices to db rows
e05dc2716fd5ec26…6fd5ec26…2023-05-12 03:04:09 <asciilifeform> 3) when transmitting, pull the requisite chain hash back outta db via the index.
c72d01b2e05dc271…e05dc271…2023-05-12 03:09:55 <asciilifeform> may seem like gnarly premature optimization, but asciilifeform strongly suspects that you ~never~ want to be reassembling chunks of multiparters during gui scroll, no iron is fast enuff to make this pleasant (esp. after the db gets fat)
5a6ebcf8c72d01b2…c72d01b2…2023-05-12 03:17:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-11#1025996 << err, red, lol
3969b69e5a6ebcf8…f7d31197…2023-05-12 03:18:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-11 22:57:06 asciilifeform[6]: i.e. you dun want to be parsing black packets errytime the window repaints
21e1a80c3969b69e…9506d45a…2023-05-12 04:13:21 <awt> asciilifeform: in my current architecture, UI gets all messages over a socket and builds a graph in memory.
12ff20ba906f5063…906f5063…2023-05-12 04:20:53 <awt> Rich text is looking like the best option right now. Last resort would be an embedded browser running a js app.
0ab5f79c0e53d25f…5a6ebcf8…2023-05-12 14:33:26 <asciilifeform> awt: neato re db. otoh 'pestron a la 'slack'', with GB+ browser in it, is a lol (and doubtful that asciilifeform will be able to build & test, except perhaps on crapple)
3b791b6f72d12b1d…72d12b1d…2023-05-12 14:50:26 <awt> billymg: My guess is that if there is a serious recession btc will continue to decline for a while.
cf8bbda73b791b6f…0ab5f79c…2023-05-12 15:41:41 <asciilifeform> likely until the hypothetical 'great cleansing', will 'correlate with printing press'
3b0bbe09cf8bbda7…e5f63470…2023-05-12 15:41:42 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-09 asciilifeform: maybe at last the great cleansing of the scum
02f6d8db3b0bbe09…0e53d25f…2023-05-12 15:55:23 <billymg> asciilifeform: surely not the last, but most recent 'cleansing' proceeding about as expected
635fe2c302f6d8db…02f6d8db…2023-05-12 15:55:54 <billymg> "The IRS filed the claims under “administrative priority,” enabling its claims to supersede that of unsecured creditors during bankruptcy proceedings."
58a16235635fe2c3…635fe2c3…2023-05-12 15:56:25 <billymg> pleb -> ftx (one hand) -> usg.irs (other hand)
3710fdd158a16235…3b791b6f…2023-05-12 16:18:39 <awt> Alternative approach to web gui would be to provide a websocket server. Then just use whatever browser you've got installed.
2072d8c53710fdd1…cf8bbda7…2023-05-12 16:41:02 <asciilifeform> billymg: lulzy -- loox like bankman paid ~0 tax, but while 'royalty' no one gave any shits
9be934212072d8c5…2072d8c5…2023-05-12 16:42:48 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform not salivating at the prospect of 'pwned browser -- pwned pestron' etc
8f0c0d272c4c9c66…7f323b97…2023-06-25 15:06:26 <shinohai> Not bad signpost, finally got around to pressing latest blatta and catching up. How goes in your neck of woods?
847a65038f0c0d27…2c4c9c66…2023-06-25 15:05:02 <signpost> can't complain. looks like we lost connection, got an updated AT?
3138ecb7847a6503…8f0c0d27…2023-06-25 15:09:11 <shinohai> Yeah gimmie a minute to refill cafecito and will send over a new key. Decided to start AT fresh since last time I did this was just horrible.
4016a29c89302a8f…9482f220…2023-05-13 18:02:42 <awt> phf, asciilifeform: using a text widget, how did you solve "compartmentalizing" the wrapping text so it stays in its own column? https://imgur.com/7ExihOc
41b040604016a29c…4016a29c…2023-05-13 18:08:10 <awt> Only thing I can think of atm is to have two text boxes horizontally aligned that somehow scroll together.
bdce201841b04060…19e92757…2023-05-13 18:15:08 <asciilifeform> awt: not solved at all. ( and the solution, just about inescapably, would have to look like this )
33ddeb528d7a9aa0…10f28291…2023-06-25 15:22:21 <shinohai> (The site seems to redirect to yer homepage or something)
604897bdbdce2018…3b0bbe09…2023-05-13 18:15:09 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-09 23:08:05 asciilifeform: the usual way to display 'civilized' word-wrapped/selectable/pastable text in wx ftr. dunwork with the 'fast' scrolled window thing tho, cuz creates objects, no longer 'fast'.
573b94fcbdce2018…3969b69e…2023-05-13 18:16:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-11 20:06:24 asciilifeform[5]: the only thing that even theoretically threatens to work is to do it 'as if it were a port of quake', i.e. explicitly draw & double-buffer, and maintain map of regions for the mouse, etc
f70e780b33ddeb52…2e532330…2023-06-25 15:21:24 <signpost> I must've fucked up the httpd.conf, will take a look
864a6ef5573b94fc…bdce2018…2023-05-13 18:15:49 <asciilifeform> afaik there are no built-in gui widgets on any platform that behave even vaguely correctly for this purpose.
87fc2d3f864a6ef5…864a6ef5…2023-05-13 18:16:12 <asciilifeform> ( and certainly not such as exposed in wx . can't speak with 100% certainty re tk )
76bf55bf87fc2d3f…87fc2d3f…2023-05-13 18:24:22 asciilifeform concluded that 'gui toolkit', in the sense traditionally contemplated ( 'text boxes' that work cross-platform, etc ) i.e. anyffin beyond 'get a drawable window on a screen and register kbd/mouse events' is 'a scam'
8cdcc70676bf55bf…76bf55bf…2023-05-13 18:25:18 <asciilifeform> ... often enuff can be beaten into 'working', but as sluggish/flickering mess
323acdd38cdcc706…8cdcc706…2023-05-13 18:29:00 <asciilifeform> ( and the very instance you want sumthing even vaguely nonstandard, yer back to 'pick a frame rate and start drawing things' )
de77235f323acdd3…604897bd…2023-05-13 18:29:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-04 asciilifeform: neither wx, nor qt, nor gtk, permit any such thing, and asciilifeform's many attempts to kludge it into existence led nowhere.
4d3bcbd40f712b05…2b7a36d1…2023-06-25 16:34:53 <signpost> shinohai: fixed deedbot.org, ty for mentioning
a9d07889de77235f…323acdd3…2023-05-13 18:30:50 <asciilifeform> it feels rather like trying to build a working diesel engine outta 'lego' blocks.
dc57a4424d3bcbd4…0f712b05…2023-06-25 16:39:22 <shinohai> nw! tyvm for many years of extremely useful tool.
0eb9e9f0a9d07889…a9d07889…2023-05-13 18:35:50 <asciilifeform> in wx, you get a 'scroll window', which passes coordinates of imaginary mega-plane down to component widgets; but the latter, to get sane behaviour, have to 'manually' draw the letters, calculate (somehow) their footprint, draw images on repaint, and reimplement entirely such things as highlighting txt for cut&paste, conte
920fd206dc57a442…dc57a442…2023-06-25 16:42:27 <shinohai> signpost: http://btc.info.gf/paste/07e8bc@raw
ab8ef9a9bebadc0d…bebadc0d…2023-05-13 18:37:09 <asciilifeform> ... if one represents the log lines / name box / date box etc. as 'text boxes', on a large screen you can have coupla 100 of'em, and this ends up slooow
18097d239d0161f6…9d0161f6…2023-06-25 16:47:00 <signpost> doesn't look like my station's hearing ya yet
c2ae3051ab8ef9a9…ab8ef9a9…2023-05-13 18:37:55 <asciilifeform> ( aaand they gotta be resized ~sequentially~ , as the amt of txt in nth affects the vertical location of n+1st etc )
7d817bb018097d23…920fd206…2023-06-25 16:50:56 <shinohai> Mine seems to be broadcasting correctly thus far.
6142448cc2ae3051…c2ae3051…2023-05-13 18:38:51 <asciilifeform> which makes for sloooow and flickery ( and can't manually control the redraw if using os-provided text box widgets, as wxtextctrl does )
5acdb1a37d817bb0…18097d23…2023-06-25 16:49:53 <signpost> just tried unpeering and repeering rather than just swapping key and at
1d7e6a326142448c…6142448c…2023-05-13 18:40:10 <asciilifeform> quite possibly many folx historically not even ran into the full extent of the lulbreakage because their display was small.
72d412825acdb1a3…5acdb1a3…2023-06-25 16:51:05 <signpost> shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TGlA << maybe give that a try on your end?
19c320041d7e6a32…1d7e6a32…2023-05-13 18:42:47 <asciilifeform> nao, ~outside~ of 'cross platform', e.g. crapple actually provides over9000 built-in knobs to actually solve these & other problems ( albeit ~entirely undocumented , yer stuck with ancient examples from shithub ) but asciilifeform not esp. interested in a crapple-only pestron
6fd2735819c32004…19c32004…2023-05-13 18:43:16 asciilifeform only sits on crapple when travelling, and not travels much
9a6d888b6fd27358…6fd27358…2023-05-13 18:45:38 <asciilifeform> ... while on e.g. mswin, life much more resembles x11 , you 'pick a frame rate and start shoveling pixels around' if you want anything other than familiar 1990s microshit gui elements
967948539a6d888b…41b04060…2023-05-13 18:53:41 <awt> I found a tkinter irc app that pulls it off with a text widget somehow: https://github.com/Akuli/mantaray https://imgur.com/a/9T9CUJG
d5fc84b93e125367…19f536cc…2023-06-25 17:23:35 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-25#1027336 << nifty! ( possible idea: linkify the links? or is this gnarly in tk )
b767468096794853…96794853…2023-05-13 18:57:37 <awt> relevant code (possibly): https://github.com/Akuli/mantaray/blob/master/mantaray/views.py#L326
0fa59ba9d5fc84b9…042cdb94…2023-06-25 17:25:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-25 00:04:41 awt_akris[awt]: Got presence and dm tabs working: https://imgur.com/a/t4ilxn9
d4c7ff8fb7674680…b7674680…2023-05-13 20:36:51 <awt> Got it working by using the lmargin setting in a tag: https://imgur.com/a/hcek32F
83bd4a5d2b3b0f66…00000000…2023-06-26 01:07:44 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-25#1027746 << 1337
9b17797a2ba2e05b…9a6d888b…2023-05-13 21:34:28 <asciilifeform> awt: loox neato. do embedded images work there ?
17b51bbb83bd4a5d…8b9dea6d…2023-06-26 01:07:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-25 00:03:06 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Got presence and dm tabs working: https://imgur.com/a/t4ilxn9
f1c82dac9b17797a…9b17797a…2023-05-13 21:36:05 <asciilifeform> ( fwiw asciilifeform did -- if not clear from upstack -- get sumthing quite similar working in wx; but turned out to have problems when have 'over9000 kilometres' of log & tried to scroll it )
a4a7d16b17b51bbb…83bd4a5d…2023-06-26 01:29:58 <phf> signpost, every time i throw my hereford/textan saddle on a pony this song starts playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVeDaZxAXo not that i'm complaining
ca5db9e8f1c82dac…2ba2e05b…2023-05-13 23:04:21 <awt> asciilifeform: iirc you used multiple text widgets rather than one?
5a71890aca5db9e8…30cb2094…2023-05-13 23:16:37 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026029 << i'm not a fan of that style, so i'm not too worried about not supporting it. this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021420 is the look and feel i'm going for
9df469625a71890a…de77235f…2023-05-13 23:16:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 19:47:46 phf: crtdaydreams, it was a joke at some point, and then it stuck. right before i switched to this ungodly combo it looked like this http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png
be9b2d195a71890a…573b94fc…2023-05-13 23:18:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 14:04:11 awt: phf, asciilifeform: using a text widget, how did you solve "compartmentalizing" the wrapping text so it stays in its own column? https://imgur.com/7ExihOc
0ae67742d5462cae…e6c39cb0…2023-06-26 16:57:10 <signpost> phf: good shit. the culture war against that Texas is ongoing.
9b4a1242be9b2d19…5a71890a…2023-05-13 23:19:15 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026054 << yes, tk supports embedded images, and, as i recall, with similar padding trick you can make it nicely sized and positioned and such
0a55f7060ae67742…0ae67742…2023-06-26 16:57:46 <signpost> wildest recent development here is Abbott talking about eliminating property taxes.
aeaee66c9b4a1242…be9b2d19…2023-05-13 23:20:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 17:35:59 asciilifeform[4]: awt: loox neato. do embedded images work there ?
4d9583580a55f706…0a55f706…2023-06-26 16:59:06 <signpost> between that and the gold currency, hilarious that blue state weed rebellion is opening the door to this kind of thing.
3813d96e4d958358…4d958358…2023-06-26 17:00:03 <signpost> still need to round up and evict the californians though. I’m probably still leaving on the basis of the globohomoization of the schools.
e903852ebf46870a…bf46870a…2023-05-14 02:20:58 asciilifeform tried to recall what ~didn't~ work in tk..
8d2b7a233813d96e…3813d96e…2023-06-26 17:02:45 <signpost> they did a pedo storytime session in the school district in which I currently sit.
ab14f4348d2b7a23…8d2b7a23…2023-06-26 17:03:25 <signpost> still looks like one of the low property tax NH towns and private school is the best bet.
4d108073e1f9543f…e1f9543f…2023-05-14 02:21:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026057 << can one get timestamps from mouse hover like in the www logotron ? (if so -- a++)
a9cc45854d108073…aeaee66c…2023-05-14 02:23:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 19:18:08 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026029 << i'm not a fan of that style, so i'm not too worried about not supporting it. this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021420 is the look and feel i'm going for
b27cfeab80596b28…3e125367…2023-06-26 17:36:54 <shinohai> Yeah there is current trend where the LGBTBBQ crowd want to read "kids books" about dicks and using grindr as part of school curriculum.
e2a53a6ca9cc4585…9df46962…2023-05-14 02:21:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 19:47:46 phf: crtdaydreams, it was a joke at some point, and then it stuck. right before i switched to this ungodly combo it looked like this http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png
2d989c2ab27cfeab…b27cfeab…2023-06-26 17:37:31 <shinohai> Reading rainbow no longer means what it used to!
012afafae2a53a6c…4d108073…2023-05-14 02:22:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026056 << correct, multiple (was 1 per log line)
98fe3670012afafa…a9cc4585…2023-05-14 02:24:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 19:05:52 awt: asciilifeform: iirc you used multiple text widgets rather than one?
694bfa4f98fe3670…012afafa…2023-05-14 02:23:41 <asciilifeform> 1 problem was, in wx, standard 'wxtextctrl' not supports images (or even hyperlinks! unless they are 'naked html', and such go straight to external browser..) so need 'rich text' thing, which was mega-hog (given as not used native os text renderer)
3a48c8c08a480d3a…8a480d3a…2023-06-26 18:29:34 asciilifeform recalls 'snake handler story hour' in (american) school. d00d with various pythons etc. somehow asciilifeform not felt slightest inclination after to become snake handler, in fact quite opposite, lol
a195d891694bfa4f…694bfa4f…2023-05-14 02:24:16 <asciilifeform> ( subj , for the curious entomologist )
fe9d2e883a48c8c0…2b3b0f66…2023-06-26 18:33:05 <awt_akris> I was persuaded by mp's treatise on the subject
d2e05a5fa195d891…a195d891…2023-05-14 02:25:14 <asciilifeform> ^ aand then asciilifeform tried it with ~one~ of'em, rather than 'over9000', and was similarly sluggish when loaded with a sizeable faux 'log'
df0f06b3fe9d2e88…2d989c2a…2023-06-26 18:41:32 <shinohai> "Trust me kids, I'm a herpetologist!" *unzips pants*
f1ecbd4bd2e05a5f…d2e05a5f…2023-05-14 02:25:50 asciilifeform then! then tried 'fuck with the tail and head of it during scrolling to keep ram footprint slow' --> flicker hell
13ccc74e45d7fb27…fad11dc4…2023-06-26 19:57:29 <awt> asciilifeform: I can't recall the title but he presented a taxonomy of homosexuals.
1638d352e8ac6aaf…9b4a1242…2023-05-14 02:26:07 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026065 << kind of, tooltips are not crossplatform (!!!), so instead you can emulate them using borderless window. it worked… ok. i still couldn't fix all the reliability problems. sometimes it appears, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it stays around too long
17a0dfcd13ccc74e…45d7fb27…2023-06-26 21:00:46 <asciilifeform> awt: dun have the link handy, but recall that he posited existence of 'fake' homosexuals ( which to asciilifeform seems like a lul -- are there e.g. faux coprophagiacs also? who eat but w/out enthusiasm..? )
aa3a251f1638d352…98fe3670…2023-05-14 02:27:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 22:23:01 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026057 << can one get timestamps from mouse hover like in the www logotron ? (if so -- a++)
58947ed117a0dfcd…17a0dfcd…2023-06-26 21:01:58 <asciilifeform> very often to asciilifeform it seemed as if mp were posting from a parallel universe. that was 1 of these times
b9a064e2aa3a251f…e8ac6aaf…2023-05-14 02:26:53 <asciilifeform> unsurprise! given as 'can't do it with those legos'
a8e64672b9a064e2…aa3a251f…2023-05-14 02:28:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-13 14:30:31 asciilifeform[4]: ( and the very instance you want sumthing even vaguely nonstandard, yer back to 'pick a frame rate and start drawing things' )
f1b4644b0221bf4a…0221bf4a…2023-06-26 21:15:58 <signpost> dunno how long somebody takes it in the pooper for fashion, but hey.
49aa43f6a8e64672…e2a53a6c…2023-05-14 02:27:00 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-04 asciilifeform: neither wx, nor qt, nor gtk, permit any such thing, and asciilifeform's many attempts to kludge it into existence led nowhere.
ce530670f1b4644b…f1b4644b…2023-06-26 21:16:48 signpost suspects the endocrine disruptors have a lot to do with the rise of mutants
1542cc1549aa43f6…b9a064e2…2023-05-14 02:27:46 <asciilifeform> for so long as you stick 'religiously' to what the underlying platform (gtk, motif, etc) gives traditionally, yer golden. but step off the reservation, and get soup
53f767a7ce530670…ce530670…2023-06-26 21:17:32 <signpost> refusal to mate might even be evolution’s fate slightly better than death.
b938449e1542cc15…1638d352…2023-05-14 02:29:19 <phf> asciilifeform, i'm rebuilding, so my pest is pretty much unusable at the moment :> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-remake.png
a050161053f767a7…00000000…2023-06-26 21:56:46 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-26#1027810 << there's variety of creative human failure modes, on a large enough scale and with present kumbaya approach to social norms enforcement, they can all be had on display. fashion homosexuals is a thing, my hippie gay friend who m'*q2mRb>N
% !=z;
30651cfdb938449e…1542cc15…2023-05-14 02:30:12 <asciilifeform> phf: lulzy, looks 100% like asciilifeform's c++ 'pestron'
b8b6774ea0501610…a0501610…2023-06-26 21:56:46 <phf> 's old enough to have been to woodstock was the first one that i heard complain about it m'*q2mRb>N
% !=z;
314349c130651cfd…30651cfd…2023-05-14 02:30:24 <asciilifeform> on crapple, exactly same window/tabs!!
9f1b74d1b8b6774e…17b51bbb…2023-06-26 21:56:46 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 17:01:59 asciilifeform: very often to asciilifeform it seemed as if mp were posting from a parallel universe. that was 1 of these times
020482fb314349c1…314349c1…2023-05-14 02:31:18 <asciilifeform> re wx etc, asciilifeform increasingly gets the feeling of 'being angle trisector' when trying to get anyffin approaching sane gui
c624443c9f1b74d1…b8b6774e…2023-06-26 22:04:07 <phf> his complaint was that there was a rise of gay boys, and this is early 2010s, who acted stereotypically homosexual, but didn't exhibit any kind of genuine gay sexuality. like a kind of stepford wives simulacrum, or the parallel that i proposed back then very asexual jaded strippers /y e)= sT][
69cb8a20020482fb…49aa43f6…2023-05-14 02:31:18 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-07-06 erlehmann: http://web.mst.edu/~lmhall/WhatToDoWhenTrisectorComes.pdf
26f68c99c624443c…c624443c…2023-06-26 22:04:07 <phf> . like they enjoyed playing the role of gays, and some of them could even be bedded, but they weren't actually genuinely homosexual. we kind of concluded back then that it was a kind of fashion driven performance homosexuality by people who utterly lack any kind of personalities. /y e)= sT][
b8f7606826f68c99…26f68c99…2023-06-26 22:06:32 <phf> i think that kind of behavior is even more strongly present with women
1f06afbc2b795048…68f0b5e0…2023-05-14 15:15:30 signpost doing a trb sync with incoming tx messages (and AskFor tx upon inv containing unknown tx) skipped during initial sync.
0addbe61b8f76068…b8f76068…2023-06-26 22:18:31 <phf> half way through i realized how tedious of a subject it is, and that i don't want to explore it any further. entomology used to be an avocation, but now it's a survival strategy. sad, many such cases.
4a9a9adf0addbe61…58947ed1…2023-06-26 23:05:40 asciilifeform disgusted but aware that there exist 'people' w/out personalities, intrinsic desires, etc.
7f56b1868cf1c6e4…8cf1c6e4…2023-05-14 15:16:03 <signpost> thing seems to spend a silly amount of time gargling txn it can't do anything about until chain's synced.
dd76ef084a9a9adf…4a9a9adf…2023-06-26 23:06:55 <asciilifeform> and moreover that it sadly aint limited to asexuals fraudulently pretending to be people, but in the arts, 'opensores', and just about errywhere else
0cdfffef7f56b186…7f56b186…2023-05-14 15:16:43 <signpost> also sadly snipped the heathen command ban out because by now the network's saturated with nodes that issue them. silently ignoring instead.
67aecdf0dd76ef08…dd76ef08…2023-06-26 23:08:28 asciilifeform agrees w/ phf that it is difficult to imagine a moar tedious subject, aside possibly from 'where the fuck do these monsters come from' to start with
3c2a3c2567aecdf0…67aecdf0…2023-06-26 23:09:25 <asciilifeform> mp's wisecrack that 'they ran outta souls at the warehouse' identifies but not unlocks the riddle
d2f884bc3c2a3c25…3c2a3c25…2023-06-26 23:11:47 asciilifeform went to uni w/ a d00d who would check out heavy piles of maffs from library. one time asciilifeform noticed a piece that he had actually read , and asked (elementary) q re subj . to learn , in horror, that at no point did $d00d so much as open the thing (or any other)
c56be8fdd3669bfb…d3669bfb…2023-05-14 16:21:40 <asciilifeform> a cement baked & signed by asciilifeform for blox through 723k can be found in the cement maker article.
ed854853d2f884bc…d2f884bc…2023-06-26 23:12:47 <asciilifeform> ( tome in question was no kind of arcane exotica, was okasaki's 'functional data structures' )
8bb3f2b3c56be8fd…c56be8fd…2023-05-14 16:22:09 asciilifeform oughta bake an updated cement. and if anyone has done so already, plox to post
ad474880ed854853…ed854853…2023-06-26 23:14:07 <asciilifeform> ... many yrs later read tlp , who offered sumthing like a plausible explanation of this kind of psychopathology.
05a79cdb8bb3f2b3…8bb3f2b3…2023-05-14 16:23:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: fwiw per asciilifeform's measurements during the 2017 tx spamola deluge, the latter has miniscule effect on sync time (during most of which the thing simply waits for someone to give the requested block. and when the latter arrives, tx aint being eaten anyway)
0e56732ead474880…ad474880…2023-06-26 23:14:55 <asciilifeform> but in those days was utterly mystified. ( 'wai are you carrying this bag of maculature home if you dun intend to read it' )
b00a9d9c05a79cdb…05a79cdb…2023-05-14 16:24:09 <asciilifeform> i.e. asciilifeform found tx liquishit to be 'red herring' in re 'wai sync slow'.
a17e4dc10e56732e…00000000…2023-06-27 01:06:15 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-06-30#1109953
b71f90d6b00a9d9c…b00a9d9c…2023-05-14 16:25:13 <asciilifeform> not that it aint worth to experiment, but 'how long will noad with xyz take to sync' gives largely random number. (what you actually want to measure is 'how much time it sits with mouth open waiting for nth block'
354b5ae8a17e4dc1…9f1b74d1…2023-06-27 01:06:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-30 phf: signpost: you familiar with dark academia meme?
516224a7b71f90d6…b71f90d6…2023-05-14 16:25:41 <asciilifeform> ( for a 'cemented' sync, that's ~0. at the obvious cost )
e82cdbfe354b5ae8…0e56732e…2023-06-27 01:22:08 <asciilifeform> ty phf, was looking for that thrd, lol
391a4f09e82cdbfe…e82cdbfe…2023-06-27 01:22:54 asciilifeform still thinks 'dark academia' oughta exist, in the form of a partizan underground that seekritly does what proper academics usedto do 100y ago. ( + maybe the occasional blowing up of convoy or derailing of train fulla Official academics, wainot )
9906fd6b299342fe…69cb8a20…2023-05-14 16:28:18 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-28 asciilifeform: 17 feb -- 28 mar.
c78709bf391a4f09…391a4f09…2023-06-27 01:27:43 asciilifeform recalls how uncle ted scored a hit at umd, and for many yrs a usg poster hung in the maffs dept, 'report packages dripping grease' etc (only vanished recently iirc)
62a4ee7b9906fd6b…299342fe…2023-05-14 16:29:38 <asciilifeform> note that a node that is syncing 'in cement' won't propagate tx.
9719c80ac78709bf…a17e4dc1…2023-06-27 01:38:41 <phf> real men polish a lathe, rather than a knob - lockk scotlin
3862de4962a4ee7b…62a4ee7b…2023-05-14 16:30:57 <asciilifeform> ( the blox, incidentally, get verified precisely as if 'synced naturally'. the only change is that while 'in cement', trb knows the hash of the next expected block )
65b0d6743862de49…3862de49…2023-05-14 16:31:44 <asciilifeform> ^ if this weren't so, could sync in a day or two. but then would be just the same as simply copying the db from an existing noad.
cb0bdc86d4159324…d4159324…2023-06-27 01:40:25 <phf> i'm frankly not strongly opposed to dark academia even as it is, on account that it's probably the least offensive larp. i mean i read barry hopper when i was teenager, and i don't think that it's ~just~ pulp
514af3b065b0d674…0cdfffef…2023-05-14 16:54:45 signpost was observing the thing going back and forth trying to connect transactions for many minutes, prompted getting out the cauterizing laser
505f240bcb0bdc86…cb0bdc86…2023-06-27 01:44:25 <phf> i don't remember who, probably last psychiatrist, but somebody had an affectation of touching the wall constantly while walking immitating some famous mathematician who did that out of compulsion
1643fc8d514af3b0…514af3b0…2023-05-14 16:54:56 <signpost> but yeah, actually forgot about the cement patch too.
d318c1671643fc8d…1643fc8d…2023-05-14 16:55:25 <signpost> re: heathen commands, I should probably put a log message in there and see what they are.
d54cfb9832361158…32361158…2023-06-27 01:45:20 <phf> maybe it was feynman writing about briefly doing that himself?
5108b344d318c167…d318c167…2023-05-14 16:56:03 <signpost> I hadn't synced a trb from scratch in a long time, so I'll let this one run regardless, but I mean to dust off my walletsnip patch next.
ad286f77d54cfb98…d54cfb98…2023-06-27 01:47:55 <phf> anyway, there's probably some kind of scale from "doing hard science" into "barry popper larp", where some kind of useful work actually comes out of it. i have vague memory that a handful of lurkers on #t actually picked up greek/latin textbooks because of the particular republican fetishises
d4e3badb5108b344…2b795048…2023-05-14 23:16:21 <awt> It seems like the station will need to getdata all messages before notifying the client that it's safe to fetch the chain. I can't think of a way to present any sort of progress bar because a station can't know when it has reached the root message, other than simply timing out.
93ecc4a5ad286f77…13ccc74e…2023-06-27 02:15:05 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027431 << afaik I'm the only one who went on the Greek trip. Studied furiously for 2 years (was a blast) then ended up visiting the Parthenon and Delphi.
9caf3856d4e3badb…d4e3badb…2023-05-14 23:18:42 <awt> or more accurately, a station cannot calculate progress towards the root. Has to assume root after timeout.
92d233f793ecc4a5…0fa59ba9…2023-06-27 02:16:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 21:49:34 phf[4]: anyway, there's probably some kind of scale from "doing hard science" into "barry popper larp", where some kind of useful work actually comes out of it. i have vague memory that a handful of lurkers on #t actually picked up greek/latin textbooks because of the particular republican fet
c75433b89caf3856…65b0d674…2023-05-14 23:46:58 <asciilifeform> awt: what means 'safe to fetch the chain' ? ( why wouldja have to wait 'for root' to use the station ? )
03494ddb92d233f7…93ecc4a5…2023-06-27 02:52:05 <awt> https://imgur.com/a/CISZSlV << multiline message rendering
05ce6961c75433b8…c75433b8…2023-05-14 23:47:36 <asciilifeform> you plug it in; a message shows up; and the log slowly grows backwards as the thing fetches netchain. during which you can use the station normally, neh
59affc0f05ce6961…05ce6961…2023-05-14 23:47:50 <asciilifeform> (i.e. you can send out a validly chained new msg)
3a9aec1f6b0ed56d…6b0ed56d…2023-06-27 03:01:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027428 << when biography of p.erdos 'man who loved only numbers' came out, there were folx who took to deliberately imitating some of the man's nervous ticks ( asciilifeform had the questionable fortune to meet... well, not meet, but correspond -- with one such )
a987558259affc0f…59affc0f…2023-05-14 23:48:47 <asciilifeform> the gui certainly should not need the full backlog loaded into it (ugh) to letcha scroll through it (ougha fetch old msgs 'lazily')
43bb3f383a9aec1f…92d233f7…2023-06-27 03:03:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 21:46:05 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: i don't remember who, probably last psychiatrist, but somebody had an affectation of touching the wall constantly while walking immitating some famous mathematician who did that out of compulsion
659c9789a9875582…a9875582…2023-05-14 23:49:28 <asciilifeform> the only thing user oughta see as the old msgs getdata is, perhaps, the scroll bar 'growing'
4f11917143bb3f38…3a9aec1f…2023-06-27 03:01:35 <asciilifeform> possibly this is what ethnographers call 'sympathetic magic'
aef00b89659c9789…659c9789…2023-05-14 23:49:40 <asciilifeform> (tho even this is optional, heathen chats -- e.g. 'slack' -- do without this)
6b6a6a3c4f119171…4f119171…2023-06-27 03:04:59 asciilifeform suspects that if the famous cargo cult 'airplane builders' were able to make their 'machines' make noise & spew exhaust gas, they likely would've
002cec67aef00b89…9caf3856…2023-05-14 23:53:18 <awt> asciilifeform: using a text widget, if an antecedent comes in, would need to "reindex" all descendants if you're keeping track of their indices.
ec95f40b6b6a6a3c…6b6a6a3c…2023-06-27 03:06:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027430 << iirc it was (tho can't recall where, possibly in 'surely you're joking')
0246424bec95f40b…43bb3f38…2023-06-27 03:07:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 21:46:59 phf[4]: maybe it was feynman writing about briefly doing that himself?
1a9dd5ea07fa2900…07fa2900…2023-05-15 05:14:50 <awt> asciilifeform: for multipart messages, how do we determine if there is some encoded content in it such as an image or file?
58d71c721a9dd5ea…b938449e…2023-05-15 13:17:42 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026119 << nobody knows on account of fundamental machinery not being figured out yet. the thinking is that something like signpost's luby implementation will be used for file transfer, at which point some kind "metadata" packet will be added ©ƞq/y"]B)`?'}ŀ*+r
b898d12a6b0621f5…53f767a7…2023-06-27 03:10:50 signpost observes that servi outfuck and engulf the humans in every civ.
9f538cad58d71c72…58d71c72…2023-05-15 13:17:42 <phf> to pest spec. bit since we don't know if luby will even work, and what will need to go into metadata, there's not been an attempt to add one yet ©ƞq/y"]B)`?'}ŀ*+r
a96eb6cb58d71c72…a8e64672…2023-05-15 13:19:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 01:16:19 awt: asciilifeform: for multipart messages, how do we determine if there is some encoded content in it such as an image or file?
034638d8a96eb6cb…9f538cad…2023-05-15 13:19:54 <phf> and there was strong opposition to my idea of having some content available inline in message log, so it looks like the more or less agree upon going forward approach is that there will be a metadata packet of a new type
0cf0b84e60e016f7…6b0621f5…2023-06-27 03:11:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027427 << which hopper was this ? ( asciilifeform loox, finds e.g. 'The burst of gunfire killed instantly medic SP4 Barry V. Hopper ...' 'Dr. Barry Hopper, DDS - Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery' etc )
5a597b12034638d8…5108b344…2023-05-15 13:29:17 signpost dragging dead code out of trb with clion atm.
1d71c29c0cf0b84e…0246424b…2023-06-27 03:12:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 21:42:05 phf[4]: i'm frankly not strongly opposed to dark academia even as it is, on account that it's probably the least offensive larp. i mean i read barry hopper when i was teenager, and i don't think that it's ~just~ pulp
b2934b465a597b12…5a597b12…2023-05-15 13:30:50 <signpost> my old patch that excises the wallet yields a lot of other dead code, and while this renders the thing not a reference implementation in a box, code that was snipped is still all there in the vtree, and I can at some point pull things like key generation and signing into their own utils. I took a run at that years ago, hav
cb207b0b1d71c29c…0cf0b84e…2023-06-27 03:12:30 <asciilifeform> signpost: which other civs were you thinking of ?
7a521a79cb207b0b…60e016f7…2023-06-27 03:12:37 <signpost> this spill has additional interesting elements which weren't present in ones past. the handputers, plastics, poisons, by no means exhaustive list.
aeb75847158348ce…158348ce…2023-05-15 13:31:42 <signpost> leaving everything in script.* and serialize.* alone for now though.
b5047df67a521a79…7a521a79…2023-06-27 03:13:41 <signpost> asciilifeform: eveywhere there was a strict hierarchy, the bottom outfucked, top fell off. egypt, greece, rome
1b47b09caeb75847…aeb75847…2023-05-15 13:32:56 signpost took a look at current prb code, and the shit bolted to the side has shit bolted to the side.
53ff620bb5047df6…b5047df6…2023-06-27 03:14:09 <signpost> seems like order is as much an accident as mp's "latin-supernova", possibly same event.
0463cf171b47b09c…1b47b09c…2023-05-15 13:34:33 <signpost> will resume work on the fountain coder in a few weeks. I got the (currently posted) python impl about as fast as python's own parallelism limitations will permit. CL one oughta in principle have fewer limitations in this regard.
e9a4fc2553ff620b…cb207b0b…2023-06-27 03:14:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: none of these (with possible exception of roman pb goblets?) afaik involved pollutants tho
5ef4bfac0463cf17…1a9dd5ea…2023-05-15 13:38:49 <awt> signpost: what were the parallelism limitations you ran into?
889986a4e9a4fc25…e9a4fc25…2023-06-27 03:15:11 <asciilifeform> moar typically 'empire ran outta whom to eat' and/or 'egypto-stagnated until conquered'
dadb6a8f5ef4bfac…5ef4bfac…2023-05-15 13:41:02 <awt> I'm using python 3 for my new station - has cool stuff like thread pools, futures.
febf7f05889986a4…53ff620b…2023-06-27 03:15:22 <signpost> makes ours worse, but humans might be bobbing in and out of consciousness all the time as a group.
b20b280ddadb6a8f…aef00b89…2023-05-15 13:51:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026119 << for 'file', the notion was to luby. for lolcats, iirc no one yet suggested precisely how to mark'em ( would strongly prefer not to roll in the 'mime' traditional idiocy or anyffin like it. prolly best to have a single flag somewhere )
e102adb1b20b280d…a96eb6cb…2023-05-15 13:53:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 01:16:19 awt: asciilifeform: for multipart messages, how do we determine if there is some encoded content in it such as an image or file?
ba026823c8f3c471…febf7f05…2023-06-27 03:15:59 <signpost> consciousness itself might require critical events in upbringing without which, you get the association matrix repeater slug
6c61ff50e102adb1…b20b280d…2023-05-15 13:52:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026122 << luby 'works', the q afaik is 'whether the game is worth the candles' (vs regular old 'multipartism')
d76086096c61ff50…e102adb1…2023-05-15 13:54:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:19:16 phf[signpost]: to pest spec. bit since we don't know if luby will even work, and what will need to go into metadata, there's not been an attempt to add one yet
978b25724f16da52…4f16da52…2023-06-27 03:18:01 <signpost> heidegger works a single sentence of parmenides for an entire book, iirc "It is useful, the laying out and taking to heart that being is"
82e7e451d7608609…6c61ff50…2023-05-15 13:56:22 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026131 << asciilifeform has a working py3 (for fpgaism) but iirc it is absent on standard dulap gentoo
7de49f8c82e7e451…d7608609…2023-05-15 13:57:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:42:31 awt: I'm using python 3 for my new station - has cool stuff like thread pools, futures.
04ec942bfff9ef22…c8f3c471…2023-06-27 03:19:45 <asciilifeform> it aint even that signpost necessarily wrong re subj, but from asciilifeform's pov is rather as if a police detective saw a fella in alley with head staved in with a lead pipe, and , not satisfied, orders a test for cia shellfish toxin
aa6b6f947de49f8c…82e7e451…2023-05-15 14:00:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026125 << iirc the tricky bit (recall how mp choked on jfw's 'wallet') was how to pump info back outta trb to walletron (to update the latter with unspent outputs to yer addrs)
d97fe04e04ec942b…04ec942b…2023-06-27 03:21:29 <asciilifeform> ( imho plenty of rather obv macro dysfunctions in reich, each 1 moar than sufficient to explain trajectory to collapse & assoc. various mass psychosis )
44d568e7aa6b6f94…7de49f8c…2023-05-15 14:02:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:32:23 signpost: my old patch that excises the wallet yields a lot of other dead code, and while this renders the thing not a reference implementation in a box, code that was snipped is still all there in the vtree, and I can at some point pull things like key generation and signing into their own ut
9efb7c9344d568e7…aa6b6f94…2023-05-15 14:03:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026124 << how much actually-dead coad was there (if not considering the wallet) ? (vs. merely commented-out historical lulz)
75ebf7e4fcd013f2…fcd013f2…2023-06-27 03:22:00 <signpost> gent that spends his whole life laying out and taking to heart that being is can light himself on fire and sit quietly to lay it out for others.
fe9dd6a89efb7c93…44d568e7…2023-05-15 14:04:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:30:52 signpost: dragging dead code out of trb with clion atm.
8b8cda6b75ebf7e4…75ebf7e4…2023-06-27 03:22:36 <signpost> so I don't think plastic in balls is sufficient to excuse lack of mind, but it doesn't help.
2da010d1fe9dd6a8…dadb6a8f…2023-05-15 14:07:32 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026123 << Ah I see so a metadata packet referencing the hash of a multipart message, for ex.?
f700e5d22da010d1…fe9dd6a8…2023-05-15 14:09:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:21:25 phf[4]: and there was strong opposition to my idea of having some content available inline in message log, so it looks like the more or less agree upon going forward approach is that there will be a metadata packet of a new type
5be5991af700e5d2…034638d8…2023-05-15 15:57:24 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026134 << i don't think it can be considered "works" until there's at least there's a workbench implementation of a complete roundtrip. send out a metadata packet, get counter party to recieve it, request hash against some kind of luby protocol, get file
ebb8a9415be5991a…f700e5d2…2023-05-15 15:58:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 09:54:20 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026122 << luby 'works', the q afaik is 'whether the game is worth the candles' (vs regular old 'multipartism')
07962f5aebb8a941…5be5991a…2023-05-15 16:00:15 <phf> whether or not it's worth the candles is not imho a theoretical question, gotta build a working prototype and see if it works in real world
10f04d198ab156e9…4638b6da…2023-06-27 03:23:43 asciilifeform at one time looked for 'anyone replicated the rat palace?' and somewhat surprisingly not found
61e73cb607962f5a…442d5d96…2023-05-15 16:00:23 <unpx> Hello there, I hope everyone is good. Been implementing a lot of cryptographic primitives, but hadn't time to ponder on them too much, not as I wanted. Been unlearning programming in general and computers seems more hazardous than before.
bb25fec861e73cb6…61e73cb6…2023-05-15 16:01:46 <unpx> Been torturing myself thinking where to put data in this monad-like life-style since server is far away and the only thing I trust is that it's safe enough to run simple and critical stuff, but cannot be a remote NAS.
9cfbf34abb25fec8…9efb7c93…2023-05-15 17:09:57 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform agrees 100%, needs empirical tests
6035a9759cfbf34a…9cfbf34a…2023-05-15 17:10:29 <asciilifeform> unpx: thought you were making an algebratron a la macsyma ?
54d8313e6035a975…6035a975…2023-05-15 17:13:09 <asciilifeform> unpx: s/monad/nomad or was it intended as a haskellism pun ?
61d3473bf8744370…f8744370…2023-05-15 19:54:06 <unpx> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026150 <<< I would like the algebratron to treat the abstract stuff as such, so for example, PollardRho for integers and elliptic curve differs just in the structure, not in the algorithm on cylic (sub)groups
463a92fd996770dd…bfd4828d…2023-06-27 03:26:24 <signpost> actually awt, having eaten some greek you may enjoy What is Called Thinking even more.
2e7991bf61d3473b…ebb8a941…2023-05-15 19:55:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 13:12:01 asciilifeform[6]: unpx: thought you were making an algebratron a la macsyma ?
c9830902463a92fd…463a92fd…2023-06-27 03:28:53 <signpost> to attempt a macroexpand on how he explained the greek version of the sentence in cultural context, "It is the technique by which conscious being is produced to lay out the manner in which one is before oneself and accept as base truth that this is so."
94aba8b92e7991bf…61d3473b…2023-05-15 19:55:05 <unpx> But some structures arise from other structures, and this makes me feel in a OOP-ism
74fa338e94aba8b9…54d8313e…2023-05-15 20:14:18 <asciilifeform> unpx: possibly, but how much would the 'glue' (to express 1 in terms of the other, or both in terms of an underlying structure) weigh ?
d03242f278c464f6…996770dd…2023-06-27 03:29:27 asciilifeform brain returns eggog parsing the quoted text
a28ac4f374fa338e…74fa338e…2023-05-15 20:15:28 <asciilifeform> imho worth exploring, but historically this kinda thinking not always worked well
20438e6ad03242f2…fe9d2e88…2023-06-27 03:30:20 <awt_akris> I'm gonna have to implement /me just for asciilifeform
b38dee2fa28ac4f3…9906fd6b…2023-05-15 20:15:28 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-10-09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider
f8f57190108f4efc…78c464f6…2023-06-27 03:30:53 <signpost> the conscious european man's life is an inquiry into what the hell he is.
eaa704d7f8f57190…f8f57190…2023-06-27 03:30:59 <signpost> you have to teach that or you get an animal
8b1729ffeaa704d7…108f4efc…2023-06-27 03:31:42 <asciilifeform> rright but imho once yer emitting strings like 'being is' you may've dereferenced a freed pointer sumwhere
cdc23c4fe00c1f6a…e00c1f6a…2023-05-16 13:10:26 <signpost> not totally insane, aside being wrapped in webshit.
9b463c32f7e08752…f7e08752…2023-06-27 03:31:52 <signpost> and you're in a soup of people who don't do the above.
954c68bfcdc23c4f…4a13acb6…2023-05-16 13:25:49 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-16#1026162 << looks like it's based on this: https://fidoalliance.org/how-fido-works/
75a9b7439b463c32…8b1729ff…2023-06-27 03:32:09 <asciilifeform> ( maybe in original deutsch made sense..? )
233d8e9f954c68bf…2e7991bf…2023-05-16 13:27:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-16 09:10:48 signpost: basically OTP challenge-response iirc?
8ea40cd175a9b743…9b463c32…2023-06-27 03:32:39 <signpost> can you not imagine an animal that is in no way concerned with its own existence? doesn't even occur to it.
02960b95233d8e9f…cdc23c4f…2023-05-16 13:43:21 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026138 << I've preserved the index mechanism the wallet uses to track, and will surface that in an RPC
ac4542c18ea40cd1…8ea40cd1…2023-06-27 03:33:14 <signpost> these scared "last men" we were discussing do everything they can to avoid the thought of it, and when they fail it's just infantile terror at it.
5e7f6a8602960b95…233d8e9f…2023-05-16 13:44:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 10:02:28 asciilifeform[6]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026125 << iirc the tricky bit (recall how mp choked on jfw's 'wallet') was how to pump info back outta trb to walletron (to update the latter with unspent outputs to yer addrs)
47b254b75e7f6a86…02960b95…2023-05-16 13:44:03 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026140 << not sure yet as it's both a semi-manual iterative process and I'm suspicious clion's being overzealous, but haven't finished yet
2d15eb2d47b254b7…5e7f6a86…2023-05-16 13:45:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 10:04:38 asciilifeform[deedbot|awt|jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026124 << how much actually-dead coad was there (if not considering the wallet) ? (vs. merely commented-out historical lulz)
98e9655d854bcf84…713f02bf…2023-06-27 03:34:58 asciilifeform witnessed this kinda thing when was dealing with an infestation of subj. they seem to have this bug
bc6444a898e9655d…98e9655d…2023-06-27 03:35:26 <asciilifeform> prolly happens when shot goes through spine
6955e18b97e64bf9…97e64bf9…2023-05-16 13:45:02 signpost will post a patch if it ends up working, and will consider this the "walletless" branch of the v-tree. will end up having another branch that becomes the detached txn tools.
2657ad36bc6444a8…854bcf84…2023-06-27 03:35:40 <signpost> maybe you're right, and men have been shot through the spine.
669ed3526955e18b…dc23992f…2023-05-16 14:13:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-16#1026166 << would be a++
e8c03fca669ed352…2d15eb2d…2023-05-16 14:14:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-16 09:44:55 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-15#1026138 << I've preserved the index mechanism the wallet uses to track, and will surface that in an RPC
c762479599484e74…99484e74…2023-06-27 03:37:01 <asciilifeform> 'it dun hurt, so it can't be own meat i'm chewing on'
803430dfc7624795…03494ddb…2023-06-27 03:44:57 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027475 << I will check it out. So far I've bounced off Heidegger every time I got near. Made it through some Nietzsche. Rather like reading an entire novel of fragments of Herakles.
9c44f16e3892afdb…393ea414…2023-05-17 01:53:46 <awt> asciilifeform: What approach are you taking in terms of sending commands (peer, unpeer, etc) to the station from the gui? Are you going to guify them or maintain some sort of "command line" interface?
c9801591803430df…1d71c29c…2023-06-27 03:46:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 23:28:10 signpost: actually awt, having eaten some greek you may enjoy What is Called Thinking even more.
331c31109c44f16e…9c44f16e…2023-05-17 01:54:43 <awt> I'm probably gonig to have a console tab for sending text commands to the station and displaying the output. Can maybe add config forms later.
72128cf2331c3110…669ed352…2023-05-17 02:25:19 <asciilifeform> awt: console tab. (lulzily, the only part of asciilifeform's pestron that worx 100% properly atm..)
7cff9500f92d238a…f92d238a…2023-06-27 03:47:03 signpost has learned in having a tiny in the house that much of the boot sequence ships with the tiny.
afbc20ad7cff9500…7cff9500…2023-06-27 03:47:52 <signpost> but I think there's a difference between avoiding breaking the potential and producing a self-aware human.
81dc68eb55baa363…00000000…2023-05-17 14:45:42 <phf> console tab is so easy to build for pest, because the packet slinging part is trivial. like somewhat compliant state machine of the core of pest is like 30 lines of lisp. the "trouble" starts when you then want to assemble the firehose into something that a user might want to consume
0945d64081dc68eb…768fa4e7…2023-05-17 15:38:29 <awt> phf: can you give an example? The output from the pest station management commands I've implemented is very limited.
6b4e6c230945d640…0945d640…2023-05-17 15:45:26 <awt> https://open.substack.com/pub/niccolo/p/the-new-washington-consensus-an-industrial?r=ez56e&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email << Might be some onshoring
2f5fee326b4e6c23…6b4e6c23…2023-05-17 15:50:24 <awt> And now the Trail of Tears(tm) begins as I migrate blatta over to the new architecture.
f9b7bb30cee098b2…c7624795…2023-06-27 15:03:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-26#1027502 << see e.g.
5ab3b11c2f5fee32…72128cf2…2023-05-17 17:11:55 <asciilifeform> awt: bottom half (?) of that link seems to be paywalled
b9a5d4baf9b7bb30…c9801591…2023-06-27 15:05:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-26 23:49:37 signpost: but I think there's a difference between avoiding breaking the potential and producing a self-aware human.
27b37de55ab3b11c…2f5fee32…2023-05-17 18:09:32 <awt> asciilifeform: rats. here's a paste: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=iprd
0206d524b9a5d4ba…309e0987…2023-06-28 02:42:39 <awt_akris> Date change annotations (not as easy to add as one might think): https://imgur.com/GjE6603https://imgur.com/GjE6603
98ff8c6d1e8f3425…1e8f3425…2023-05-17 18:12:13 <asciilifeform> 'in-shoring' is a demagogueic lul fwiw
7952dc4b18675a7a…18675a7a…2023-06-28 02:50:53 <awt_akris> But they are pretty much required, otherwise difficult to tell where you are when paging up.
459049f298ff8c6d…b38dee2f…2023-05-17 18:12:13 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-04-07 asciilifeform: at this point nobody has pcbs made in usa except for military contractors
4c546bcb7952dc4b…7952dc4b…2023-06-28 03:47:39 <awt_akris> Once search and message hash links are working, this thing will be kind of like a p2p wikipedia.
4840dd7f459049f2…98ff8c6d…2023-05-17 18:12:58 asciilifeform tried to picture what a fully (i.e. not merely assembled from asian parts) 'in-shored' e.g. toyota would cost in usa
83785c9e4840dd7f…27b37de5…2023-05-18 00:01:25 <awt> Yeah well everyone's going to be poor enough to work in sweatshops soon so might work out
bb74971b83785c9e…83785c9e…2023-05-18 03:20:33 <awt> Looks like there is no native serpent implementation for python3.
ab0b5595bb74971b…bb74971b…2023-05-18 03:47:23 <awt> *no lib with bindings to a native impl, that is.
90a944aaab0b5595…6955e18b…2023-05-18 13:12:16 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-17#1026191 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-01-26#1607822
f4f89f1e521fdc20…521fdc20…2023-06-28 14:47:11 asciilifeform fondly recalls the days when btc-usd rate movements had anyffin at all to do with humans buying & selling coin
6517cd5c49f1887a…7cc724da…2023-06-28 14:56:59 awt is belatedly adding the ability to track reporting peers for hearsay messages in the filter for the new pest station.
6a4028e390a944aa…e8c03fca…2023-05-18 13:13:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-17 20:02:56 awt: Yeah well everyone's going to be poor enough to work in sweatshops soon so might work out
e3aa3d8b6517cd5c…49f1887a…2023-06-28 15:05:04 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-27#1027511 <<< is this new standalone pestotron gui awt ?
5ed7e9966a4028e3…6a4028e3…2023-05-18 13:13:52 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-01-26 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you don't want a strong currency while industrializing.
cfea9f47e3aa3d8b…b9a5d4ba…2023-06-28 15:06:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-27 22:44:55 awt_akris[awt]: er, hmm: https://imgur.com/GjE6603
4b0b209d5ed7e996…90a944aa…2023-05-18 13:14:21 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-01-26#1607861 << heh! and meanwhile
6e32b8db4b0b209d…5ed7e996…2023-05-18 13:15:56 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-01-26 trinque: texas would wrap adjoining states in monetary tentacles over time
8d9198016e32b8db…4840dd7f…2023-05-18 14:28:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-17#1026192 << what'd be involved in porting the py2 one ? (for that matter, aint there a ffi, and so could drop in a .c) ?
828d1b248d919801…6e32b8db…2023-05-18 14:30:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-17 23:22:04 awt: Looks like there is no native serpent implementation for python3.
3952e88b713c9719…713c9719…2023-06-28 18:21:46 <asciilifeform> (sumbody is still reading these! asciilifeform oughta post the xgcd chapter, the coad & proof has been sitting for 3+y!)
d1f57957828d1b24…8d919801…2023-05-18 14:31:05 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-18#1026197 << state-sponsored permissionedcoins seem to be a snoar historically (e.g. iceland) , ~nobody (aside from captive audiences) have ~any incentive to actually use'em
609acdfe3952e88b…3952e88b…2023-06-28 18:24:10 <asciilifeform> (xgcd was the last missing piece in re rsa keygenning, fwiw)
3007c944d1f57957…828d1b24…2023-05-18 14:32:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 09:15:55 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-01-26#1607861 << heh! and meanwhile
bb5250813007c944…d1f57957…2023-05-18 14:32:09 <asciilifeform> (safe bet that 'texas au-backed coin' aint gonna be a mined/irreversible-tx/sendable-to-northkorea/etc affair, imho)
2ddbb64ebb525081…bb525081…2023-05-18 14:36:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-18#1026194 << the correlation is 1way tho (sorta like how children & 90yo cancer patients have 0 excess fat, but for very diff reasons)
d8a0f1182ddbb64e…3007c944…2023-05-18 14:38:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 09:13:52 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-17#1026191 << >> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-01-26#1607822
ee92787113d8e0ea…2282c6fb…2023-06-29 16:14:41 <awt> vimeo.com/user94377835/ << screencast of initial sync on new station
95b6d1d7fc17d43e…4b0b209d…2023-05-18 16:02:30 <signpost> the utter cowardice of denying the possibility of shipping an item which cannot be altered remotely after manufacture.
133df9b129c6efdc…29c6efdc…2023-06-29 16:15:57 <asciilifeform> awt: would it be possible to demarkate chain gaps in the viewer (while such exist) ?
2f19bc5995b6d1d7…95b6d1d7…2023-05-18 16:02:48 <signpost> this is why I have a cutoff date for vehicles I'll drive, too.
f33f6362133df9b1…ee927871…2023-06-29 16:16:11 <awt> Limiting the GetData window to 5 at a time seems to be something the existing blatta stations can handle.
a5d634247e3af59b…f1ea6f61…2023-06-29 16:24:45 <awt> shinohai: ty - it's coming together. Keeping everything in order on initial sync is a bitch.
3de81637be036c8d…459049f2…2023-05-18 16:03:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-22 asciilifeform: at any rate the net is fulla these spews, 'dontcha know, permanently correct software does not exist, could not exist, because reasons' etc
b746aff53de81637…be036c8d…2023-05-18 16:04:09 <asciilifeform> + recall, 'gotta be updateable, you never know what new key format will be in next year's fashionable lolcat coin' etc
7b54670cb746aff5…2f19bc59…2023-05-18 16:04:52 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-18#1026201 << currency rebellion of any kind is interesting from a legal standpoint.
4bfcb9ad7b54670c…d8a0f118…2023-05-18 16:06:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 10:32:37 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-18#1026197 << state-sponsored permissionedcoins seem to be a snoar historically (e.g. iceland) , ~nobody (aside from captive audiences) have ~any incentive to actually use'em
4b2baa1b4bfcb9ad…7b54670c…2023-05-18 16:05:17 <signpost> if there's anything in the states that can be wrenched back from the brink it's increased federalism, but not holding my breath.
9fd9f6394b2baa1b…b746aff5…2023-05-18 16:05:57 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho would be moar credible of a rebellion if they printed paper tx-goldbux , i.e. w/out the 'blockchain flavour' pretense
de719b0f9fd9f639…4b2baa1b…2023-05-18 16:06:25 <signpost> thought I'd read it's meant to be both, but lemme see.
ac601c44de719b0f…de719b0f…2023-05-18 16:07:27 <signpost> that said, yes, every criticism of CDBC applies.
081ee419ac601c44…ac601c44…2023-05-18 16:08:10 <signpost> https://legiscan.com/TX/bill/SB1558/2023 << here it is. physical gold and silver would become legal tender.
98ccfee7081ee419…9fd9f639…2023-05-18 16:08:36 <asciilifeform> afaik to date, state-backed shitcoins have shriveled up & died even faster than ordinary ones
169b334198ccfee7…98ccfee7…2023-05-18 16:09:04 <asciilifeform> ( the latter -- are sometimes able to maintain a pretense of decentralization for short while )
279d1143169b3341…081ee419…2023-05-18 16:09:47 <signpost> in practice the thing will end up being an API for moving db-money at the Texas Bullion Depository
7e637ac1279d1143…ab0b5595…2023-05-18 16:56:45 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-18#1026199 << gotta fix the mcrypt bindings - tried - gave up after fixing n + 1 compile errors
6adcfa967e637ac1…4bfcb9ad…2023-05-18 16:58:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 10:30:02 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-17#1026192 << what'd be involved in porting the py2 one ? (for that matter, aint there a ffi, and so could drop in a .c) ?
01d6bf8a6adcfa96…6adcfa96…2023-05-18 16:58:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 10:30:02 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-17#1026192 << what'd be involved in porting the py2 one ? (for that matter, aint there a ffi, and so could drop in a .c) ?
c239fe8201d6bf8a…7e637ac1…2023-05-18 16:57:11 <awt> er, mcrypt is here: https://labix.org/python-mcrypt/
5f3e76a5c239fe82…c239fe82…2023-05-18 17:00:35 <awt> Might be easier to create new bindings to an existing serpent-only c lib.
7bfc34895f3e76a5…169b3341…2023-05-18 17:48:24 <asciilifeform> awt: could try the 1 from jonsykkel's pestron for this
562c7f4a7bfc3489…94aba8b9…2023-05-18 20:26:03 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-30#1025789 << I suddenly crave for symbolics genera + concordia
dc0d0a42562c7f4a…3de81637…2023-05-18 20:26:05 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 18:52:06 asciilifeform: unpx: well, 'if wishes were horses', wainot 'concordia'.
86e0dadbdc0d0a42…562c7f4a…2023-05-18 20:27:25 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-05-15#1026566 <<< Unfortunately, this is something I cannot estimate, but looks like some thick one, and I'm trying to trim it
597dd89786e0dadb…dc0d0a42…2023-05-18 20:27:27 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-05-15 16:14:18 asciilifeform: unpx: possibly, but how much would the 'glue' (to express 1 in terms of the other, or both in terms of an underlying structure) weigh ?
f84f583e597dd897…86e0dadb…2023-05-18 20:29:40 <unpx> I had some funny conversations I'd like to share
e5587fe0f84f583e…f84f583e…2023-05-18 20:31:05 <unpx> ``The symbol "=<" means "less than or equal" (modulo 2**32).'' tcp rfc As you wish...
8d794d62e5587fe0…e5587fe0…2023-05-18 20:34:50 <unpx> Second thing is that projects can be seen in a two phase model. The first phase is about building the product following the requirements. The second phase is about understanding the first phase and writing a documentation. But anyone can see that one need documentation before building the product.
a9515f638d794d62…8d794d62…2023-05-18 20:36:16 <unpx> Thus you either steal a phase two (aka take a standard, implement it, and document why you did so), or you create a prototype, then trash it, write the documentation, and write the product.
dc36e96da9515f63…a9515f63…2023-05-18 20:37:29 <unpx> But I cannot see tools that care about both, they are more about the phase one rather then the phase two.
3accef08dc36e96d…dc36e96d…2023-05-18 20:39:10 <unpx> Not only phase two explain the product, but also the process of building, releasing, maintaining the product, and even making a new one.
8d9be8133accef08…3accef08…2023-05-18 20:53:30 <unpx> To be clear, phase one is design (and implementation)
db6f7e6f8d9be813…8d9be813…2023-05-18 20:59:09 <unpx> Pest could implement this method for NAT traversal
b43eb1b1db6f7e6f…db6f7e6f…2023-05-18 21:04:40 <unpx> oh http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-09-19#1013321
e55a2bbdb43eb1b1…597dd897…2023-05-18 21:04:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 18:37:49 asciilifeform: see also: this likbez re subj.
9504d407b2a536ba…6c3ede89…2023-05-22 11:05:44 <awt> https://github.com/Libera-Chat/sable << "Server nodes communicate using a Gossip-like protocol, removing the need for a spanning-tree routing and making netsplits, as they occur in legacy servers, a thing of the past. While a server may still become isolated from the network due to networking faults, the loss of a single c
f44a512f5d03abaf…141c42fc…2023-05-22 13:51:37 <asciilifeform> awt: pretty lulzy read, e.g. 'a globally-unique event ID' (how? if nominally p2p)
6cfa4bb9f44a512f…f44a512f…2023-05-22 13:52:36 <asciilifeform> cherche le femme^H^H^H^H^Hcentralizedhitler
b7f223f36cfa4bb9…6cfa4bb9…2023-05-22 13:53:26 asciilifeform unsurprised to discover subj is in 'rust' lol
53afc506b7f223f3…b7f223f3…2023-05-22 13:54:13 <asciilifeform> 'Despite the arbitrarily-connected Gossip network, duplicate or out-of-order processing of events will not occur' << ditto
9b2b213453afc506…53afc506…2023-05-22 13:55:06 <asciilifeform> ... but if somebody actually read the src, and in fact found a working perpetuum mobile in there, plox to post.
3da999b09b2b2134…9b2b2134…2023-05-22 14:05:09 <asciilifeform> per their docs, loox like there's in fact no attempt to p2pize handle uniqueness -- instead same old centralized fleanode-style mechanics.
4564d02e3da999b0…3da999b0…2023-05-22 14:05:59 <asciilifeform> (not clear wai bothered with the various 'gossip' window dressing, then)
62b84dab4564d02e…5d03abaf…2023-05-22 15:36:59 <awt> incidentally asciilifeform I have python3 built on a dulap.
674ed392f4bbb158…62b84dab…2023-05-22 15:57:47 <awt> asciilifeform: don't recall how it got on there.
78194bcf674ed392…674ed392…2023-05-22 15:58:45 <awt> Possibly was a dep of something else I installed.
e75e73e778194bcf…78194bcf…2023-05-22 16:33:38 <awt> Did some firearems training on a glock 19 this weekend.
935fabade75e73e7…e75e73e7…2023-05-22 16:38:59 <awt> Instructor had many stories about how he + friends ended up needing guns. Duh. You live in Stockton and sell retail.
efd37a5e935fabad…935fabad…2023-05-22 16:44:59 <awt> Also entertaining story about finding guns small enough for a midget and his daughter.
a5a4dfceefd37a5e…efd37a5e…2023-05-22 16:46:55 <awt> Mentioned having to kill someone in the line of duty. Cop mindset very interesting.
c528e084a5a4dfce…a5a4dfce…2023-05-22 16:47:28 <awt> "centrist" - blissfully unaware of who decides what's extreme, overton window, etc.
7b55da80c528e084…f4bbb158…2023-05-22 17:16:43 <asciilifeform> awt: even coupla sessions with good instructor is, asciilifeform found, actually good 'bang for the buck' (when yer a noob)
166f1f86a4cf7e5f…1c08eddc…2023-05-22 17:18:34 <awt> "before I tell you how to hold a gun, here's my life story"
af136e0a166f1f86…a4cf7e5f…2023-05-22 17:19:03 <asciilifeform> was nifty, d00d had a farm with a large circular pit in a field
b4552307dbf5c799…af136e0a…2023-05-22 17:20:34 asciilifeform was joining a private club, which req'd a 'can hit broad side of barn' cert from instructor
79085be0b4552307…b4552307…2023-05-22 17:22:50 <asciilifeform> prolly best thing for staying in practice is to live in 'middle of nowhere' like phf, and do it in the forest erry weekend. but not erryone lives in forest
484a24413ba686ac…3ba686ac…2023-05-22 17:57:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-22#1026262 << political pov of typical policeman is 'whatever not risks pension cheque' afaik
80edb1ba484a2441…01d6bf8a…2023-05-22 17:58:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-22 12:49:00 awt: "centrist" - blissfully unaware of who decides what's extreme, overton window, etc.
c0c00192bc4a7eff…279d1143…2023-05-22 18:40:21 signpost spent some time farting around in C for online-codes next step, with _mm256_xor_si256 for bulk xor over the mmap'd files
556f0f0fc0c00192…c0c00192…2023-05-22 18:40:49 <signpost> oughta produce a motherfucker of a speedup, will figure out exactly how much soon.
4debce13556f0f0f…556f0f0f…2023-05-22 18:41:20 signpost did not see much wisdom in pressing on either with python or sbcl, rather than getting this piece done with bulk low-level operations, and letting those call over via ffi
bccd70204debce13…4debce13…2023-05-22 18:42:23 <signpost> on the sbcl side, had the bulk bit operations (like bit-xor) over bit-vectors, but I didn't see how to get a bit-vector backed by mmap'd file.
74c7cdc3bccd7020…bccd7020…2023-05-22 18:42:49 <signpost> anyway, fully in hail satan, write C mode for that item.
d0a486c574c7cdc3…bc4a7eff…2023-05-22 20:56:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform had some lulzy experiences with simd instrs but imho is worth to experiment/compare
6bd3615bd0a486c5…d0a486c5…2023-05-22 20:58:42 <asciilifeform> signpost: see whether you can determine whether the xor is even bottleneck at all
57c33a216bd3615b…6bd3615b…2023-05-22 20:59:38 asciilifeform in the linked example, sampled stochastically and found where the thing 'sat' most
6d2732a057c33a21…57c33a21…2023-05-22 21:00:17 <asciilifeform> doing this not reqs any special softs, can use ordinary gdb with a little scripting
1b09cdff6d2732a0…00000000…2023-05-22 21:34:18 <phf> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-22#1026271 << unsupervised range is 2 minutes driving
85e881a91b09cdff…80edb1ba…2023-05-22 21:35:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-22 13:24:23 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: prolly best thing for staying in practice is to live in 'middle of nowhere' like phf, and do it in the forest erry weekend. but not erryone lives in forest
754b3b95ca884aff…ca884aff…2023-05-23 00:30:06 asciilifeform pictured phf simply using target on printer paper nailed to tree
e163f920754b3b95…00000000…2023-05-23 01:11:07 <phf> well, that's about it, with only difference, that i actually have a wood frame stand, dyi out of 2x4s, that i sometimes drive out and sometimes leave there
655c6537e163f920…e163f920…2023-05-23 01:21:20 <phf> one thing i discovered, and i think there might be better methods, but when i attach a scope to a rifle, it helps to have large area of cardboard, that you can just shoot at, and you want it to be big so that the round lands ~somewhere~ on the target
49555c75655c6537…655c6537…2023-05-23 01:29:07 <phf> and i buy protective cover cardboard rolls from lowes, so you can just roll out a chunk, staplegun it to the frame, draw a large black dot that's 1-moa for whatever distance, and then i just shoot until i started getting rounds within 1-moa, and then i switch targets to a store bou <*4&yrK v a*;*'J
be1570c049555c75…49555c75…2023-05-23 01:29:07 <phf> ght one where i can work on keeping the 1-moa <*4&yrK v a*;*'J
281e0486be1570c0…be1570c0…2023-05-23 01:30:50 <phf> there's probably better and cheaper methods to getting into the ballpark, then having a very large target that you can't miss, but this method works. you can't do it with juts "printed paper on a tree". maybe if you're practicing with an iron sight kalash, while in the woods of ukrain or something
40e8e188887133fd…887133fd…2023-05-23 02:23:38 <phf> man, both loggers still don't support newlines in messages!
c63d48c740e8e188…dbf5c799…2023-05-23 03:17:35 <awt> adding in some basic validation that was sorely lacking in blatta: https://imgur.com/a/GoSUWa3
47e6a2fc384e31c8…384e31c8…2023-05-23 03:19:15 <awt> interesting fact re: atahualpa - learned chess before he was hastily garotted.
b4dd50a4c5e2a275…74c7cdc3…2023-05-23 03:24:37 <signpost> yeah, I'm gonna make the thing into a liboc, oughta lift into python or lisp just fine.
78aad83cb4dd50a4…b4dd50a4…2023-05-23 03:27:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-22#1026282 << will test whether. my thought was that an item might be broadcasted for a while while "seeding", and that item's probably sitting in the fs cache in ram after the first full pass-through, so these ops would be faster, but that's just what my butt says.
c0bfe76378aad83c…85e881a9…2023-05-23 03:29:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-22 17:00:15 asciilifeform[4]: signpost: see whether you can determine whether the xor is even bottleneck at all
9309efaec0bfe763…78aad83c…2023-05-23 03:28:11 <signpost> it's a very simple change to just iterate through and ^
dba3b2eba25dec03…a8000fbd…2023-05-23 15:23:18 <awt> asciilifeform: iirc there is no command for setting your own handle on a pest station?
6c2082cfdba3b2eb…dba3b2eb…2023-05-23 15:35:49 <awt> The ux for setting the station handle is a little tricky. Blatta took the approach of requiring passing in the handle on the command line. For the gui, may need to pop up a dialog if it's not set.
18e39a236c2082cf…754b3b95…2023-05-23 15:35:52 <asciilifeform> awt: in the orig spec draft, it was set during the pseudo-irc login, if you recall
fffb23e218e39a23…18e39a23…2023-05-23 15:36:27 <asciilifeform> awt: in asciilifeform's attempt at a pestron, it will be simply 'HANDLE foo' console cmd
7c337c7da01d616c…9309efae…2023-05-24 14:45:16 <signpost> I noticed jurov's source viewer is now down, RIP
2a950cbf7c337c7d…7c337c7d…2023-05-24 14:47:38 <signpost> I think I might've found a bug. the BASTARD block branch of ProcessBlock in main.cpp returns true, but the block hasn't actually been accepted. blocks are also added to inventory regardless of whether they were stored or thrown out in the block handler of ProcessMessage.
502ebe6c2a950cbf…2a950cbf…2023-05-24 14:48:13 <signpost> I changed the return to false, and made the inventory update conditional on block acceptance, and am seeing whether that does anything
19338575502ebe6c…502ebe6c…2023-05-24 14:48:51 <signpost> scratching my head at seeing miles upon miles of "BASTARD" in logs sent me down this rabbit hole.
c42eb8eb3097dcd1…3097dcd1…2023-05-24 15:33:35 <asciilifeform> if you return false, the shitblock's hash aint removed from 'askedfor'
6841539bbf99477b…19338575…2023-05-24 15:58:46 <signpost> hm. that part makes sense, but why would I keep it in my inventory if I didn't keep the block?
cb93c1ebe2adf0c4…e2adf0c4…2023-05-24 16:16:07 <asciilifeform> ( and how it ends up there to start with, i.e. blindly )
b6d02624cb93c1eb…cb93c1eb…2023-05-24 17:36:59 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, apropos of nuffin, latest noose in lolhoneypots.
67a68cf8b6d02624…b6d02624…2023-05-24 17:37:37 <asciilifeform> 'Open Secure Chip'(tm)(r)(c) etc, but where's e.g. the quartz lid or 4uM process etc
8d886bb167a68cf8…67a68cf8…2023-05-24 17:51:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-24#1026314 << iirc kaput ~2y ago, which was wai cgra baked new one
30ac9e458d886bb1…c0bfe763…2023-05-24 17:52:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-24 10:46:52 signpost: I noticed jurov's source viewer is now down, RIP
5e109a6eff8ef77a…ff8ef77a…2023-05-24 17:54:54 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=51DP << hacks I emplaced messing with this
60d830595f29c355…5f29c355…2023-05-24 17:57:58 <signpost> I thought "asked for" and "known" are separate concepts, and it looks like bastards are considered known even though they were discarded.
54f78d4a60d83059…60d83059…2023-05-24 17:58:22 <signpost> but this is me poking the thing with a stick, not a proposed patch
1738ab4854f78d4a…8d886bb1…2023-05-24 17:58:40 <asciilifeform> signpost: gotta somehow prevent the 'i threw it out but will ask for it again right away just the same' loop, neh
2ba85fec1738ab48…54f78d4a…2023-05-24 17:59:06 <signpost> will have to pull more of this shitsoup back into my head to say, could be right
4498ee052ba85fec…1738ab48…2023-05-24 17:59:20 <asciilifeform> ( ... or not, but tradeoff b/w ram guzzle & bw guzzle obv )
be024a054498ee05…2ba85fec…2023-05-24 17:59:26 <signpost> right now the node's syncing with it, but doesn't mean it can't end up looping
890827dabe024a05…4498ee05…2023-05-24 17:59:57 <asciilifeform> the unfortunate thing is that (unless you manage to utterly break it) no matter what's being tested, thing 'worx' and measurements ~random
3bdb704a890827da…be024a05…2023-05-24 18:01:43 <signpost> would like to end up with something chopped down to nothing but eating and farting blox
5e5e82123bdb704a…890827da…2023-05-24 18:05:33 asciilifeform wonders how many times the thing could've been rewritten in the cycles folx have spent in attempts to 'civilize'
8f30f7115e5e8212…05ba09f6…2023-05-24 18:07:47 <awt> Will be nice to be able to paste exmandable code snippets in here
fd7f666efad28511…5e5e8212…2023-05-24 18:11:20 asciilifeform finds interesting how well trb (despite 'frozen in amber' ) to this day worx 100%
edaa45c8fd7f666e…e55a2bbd…2023-05-24 18:11:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-20 asciilifeform: the ~complete lack of a detectable interest in e.g. trb among 'mega-hodlers' already speaks volumes re their intelligence.
695e4c57edaa45c8…fd7f666e…2023-05-24 18:14:17 asciilifeform found, in recent yrs, that attempts at anyffin beyond ultra-simple convenience pheature in re trb rapidly goes to quagmire of rapidly diminishing returns
f783f0ac695e4c57…edaa45c8…2023-05-24 18:14:18 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-17 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-17#1079578 << prolly won't surprise cgra that asciilifeform concluded that doing ~anything~ in parallel in trb is ~impossible w/out removing locks and potentially opening gates of hell. asciilifeform's draft 'usecement' is 100% s
1d2dc51eb379837d…b379837d…2023-05-24 18:18:52 <asciilifeform> while on this subj, tbf piggy ftr to this day precisely as it was in '21 . 'no +/- planned.'
ec0effa61d2dc51e…f783f0ac…2023-05-24 18:18:53 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-11 asciilifeform: for reference, piggy, seen through a heathen blockexploder .
221a2e30436613f9…ec0effa6…2023-05-24 18:19:39 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-12-18 asciilifeform: ... problem is, is very difficult to increase the amt of useful work with coin (aside from, hypothetically, jailbreaking ~people~, ideally 2-3 people. but piggy -- or 'sandwich-adjusted' exchrate -- would have to be ~
0c4600d4221a2e30…3bdb704a…2023-05-24 18:20:00 signpost not planning mega-refactors. walletless patch was a circa hm, 2019 item? possibly earlier.
f953f4d60c4600d4…0c4600d4…2023-05-24 18:20:23 <signpost> in dusting that off, poked around and wondered wtf the semantics were for inventory management of blocks.
d0e96635f953f4d6…f953f4d6…2023-05-24 18:21:03 signpost for his own purposes only needs the sendrawtransaction hole he bored in the side.
a9be3f1dd0e96635…436613f9…2023-05-24 18:21:56 <asciilifeform> signpost: how about in the other direction ? ( how does the 'wallet' apparatus find out about unspent outs ? )
6304edd3a9be3f1d…d0e96635…2023-05-24 18:22:20 <signpost> there's that transaction index the wallet uses that I need to expose via RPCs
4fe7a977740e9089…a9be3f1d…2023-05-24 18:25:56 <asciilifeform> possibly 'wallet' oughta swallow blocks (from local noad) . this way 0 leakage from 'wallet' to outside in re what addrs are of interest
acfd3fb54fe7a977…4fe7a977…2023-05-24 18:26:45 <asciilifeform> ( iirc there was a thread about this, but can't seem to find in o(1) )
2788a2a5acfd3fb5…acfd3fb5…2023-05-24 18:29:10 <asciilifeform> ( wallet not needs to ~store~ the blocks whole, as it never needs to send'em anywhere, but oughta sanity-check min-work etc., store hashes, confirm that it's being fed valid blox, & watch for the req'd unspents )
4248730f2788a2a5…2788a2a5…2023-05-24 18:32:21 asciilifeform pictures 'wallet' as physical apparatus that oughta work w/out 'special' soft support on pc end :
e21ca29f4248730f…4248730f…2023-05-24 18:33:29 <asciilifeform> ... 2 photodioded serial ports ; 1 can eat sequence of new blox (at convenience of operator, whenever he has reason to think he's been paid, or earlier has spent sumthing ) ; other end output-only, can emit a tx. and on front panel , knobs for selecting unspent outputs / amt / destination .
cc7602a7e21ca29f…e21ca29f…2023-05-24 18:34:03 <asciilifeform> the tx oughta be droppable in trb or even the various public toilets where paste.
3119ca85cc7602a7…cc7602a7…2023-05-24 18:35:50 <asciilifeform> networked noad has 0 'need to know' what addrs you find 'interesting' unless yer spending.
44388eb33119ca85…3119ca85…2023-05-24 18:37:54 <asciilifeform> on this hypothetical iron, the 'knobs' oughta include a means of entering a decryption pw. the keys per se, to live on removable flashes, 'unclassified when unkeyed'(tm)(r) ergo as many backups as one feels like
b300142844388eb3…44388eb3…2023-05-24 18:39:39 <asciilifeform> ... to the flash stick, write ciphered keys not as file but as luby into N unused-by-fs blocks.
43281316b3001428…b3001428…2023-05-24 18:40:03 <asciilifeform> then use stick for civilian purposes, taking care not to fill it above ~30% or whatnot.
e489616743281316…740e9089…2023-05-24 18:42:08 <signpost> yup, nicely avoids chug associated with particular blocks leaking a bit of timing
ecfd4ba4e4896167…43281316…2023-05-24 18:42:46 asciilifeform lulz over popular 'iron wallets' which are readily identifiable to naked eye as 'crown jewels' and contain plaintext keys (in 'unbreakable'(tm)(r) ic)
8f67bcf4ecfd4ba4…e4896167…2023-05-24 18:43:20 <signpost> lots of items I'll be happy to work on if the definitive sovereign bids.
36f8c9308f67bcf4…ecfd4ba4…2023-05-24 18:43:36 <asciilifeform> signpost: not simply re timing, but no networked machine has any biz knowing what 'your addrs' are, or that a tx it is given 'is yours'
927b98a5d1890a1e…d1890a1e…2023-05-24 18:44:06 <signpost> meanwhile, got as far as check block generation with "occ"
589a5de65d222011…f5983f3b…2023-05-24 18:47:52 <signpost> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TbrL << approx 345MB/sec single-threaded, looks like
84a28751c2d1aa29…589a5de6…2023-05-24 18:48:08 <signpost> way fucking better than what I was getting out of py, or my probably really crappy lisp.
dcc1ed9384a28751…84a28751…2023-05-24 18:48:42 signpost not the wizard that can coax mega-optimizations out of sbcl
1b757ec8ae5174c2…c2d1aa29…2023-05-24 18:50:49 <asciilifeform> decoder is necessarily 'over9000' moar expensive than encoder, for these
38da84841b757ec8…ae5174c2…2023-05-24 18:51:38 <signpost> yup, of course. shared state of which blocks already solved, etc
f0c9ecf538da8484…1b757ec8…2023-05-24 18:52:12 asciilifeform spent far too many cycles chasing 'perpetuum mobile' of trying to devise a lubyesque decoder that could somehow identify bogus chunks
f9f79570f0c9ecf5…f0c9ecf5…2023-05-24 18:52:46 <asciilifeform> i.e. where 'no credit extended' to counterparty
d0f145f4f9f79570…f9f79570…2023-05-24 18:55:29 asciilifeform not found even probabilistic algo for any such thing, to date
106ee7d2d0f145f4…38da8484…2023-05-24 19:01:12 <signpost> interesting thought, would be nice for large swarm downloads where not all participants are known in advance.
8f20019f106ee7d2…106ee7d2…2023-05-24 19:02:34 <signpost> you at least get the progressive attenuation of wot-tronic trust by being inside pestnet.
233a2ad28f20019f…8f20019f…2023-05-24 19:03:12 <signpost> direct peers, I'm most certainly going to try to decode their blocks, and if I really want the file, might at a specific point in time accept streams from L>1.
ef574b2dfe91edb0…fe91edb0…2023-05-24 19:10:11 <asciilifeform> but asciilifeform not knows whether possible even in principle.
85f448c6ef574b2d…ef574b2d…2023-05-25 00:58:07 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in further 'upgradeable' iron wallets lulz.
8766ae6385f448c6…85f448c6…2023-05-25 00:59:03 asciilifeform not expects anyone to bake sane 'iron wallet' -- the 'how' was imho obv. for 10+yrs nao, but who would pay
e2c494ed8766ae63…30ac9e45…2023-05-25 01:00:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-24 14:39:28 asciilifeform[6]: on this hypothetical iron, the 'knobs' oughta include a means of entering a decryption pw. the keys per se, to live on removable flashes, 'unclassified when unkeyed'(tm)(r) ergo as many backups as one feels like
58bf7498e2c494ed…8766ae63…2023-05-25 01:06:44 <asciilifeform> ... fwiw 'sane wallet' could even store all the blox ( 1tb of ssd is ~50bux last asciilifeform saw ) and so be able to swallow arbitrary privkeys and find the unspents
4858a00a937e5370…233a2ad2…2023-05-25 14:45:07 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-25#1026399 << worked on my last commercial project for so long (decade!) that I experienced this again and again.
454cbe044858a00a…e2c494ed…2023-05-25 14:46:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-25 00:33:43 awt: tfw sipping from own spittoon
de66d520454cbe04…4858a00a…2023-05-25 14:45:16 <signpost> "WHO THE FUCK WROTE oh, yes, it was me. ahem"
5cdfa20aeba3f7be…ec051c5c…2023-05-25 17:47:32 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. lulz. vex, wainot get a pestron going ?
c0fb0ae95cdfa20a…5cdfa20a…2023-05-25 17:49:29 <asciilifeform> pretty sure he's last remaining inhabitant of #a
4c9db4f9c0fb0ae9…46328d2d…2023-05-25 22:34:24 <mod6> yeah, that'd be good to get all the regs in here.
8fb67a704c9db4f9…4c9db4f9…2023-05-25 22:35:11 <mod6> he has a point re: tbf piggy. need secondary, for sure.
69d65d258fb67a70…00000000…2023-05-25 22:53:18 <phf> by the time i brought up pest, between loading lisps and making sure the files are up to date compiled, i forgot what i was going to say
8f4fa05bd8234c8a…de66d520…2023-05-26 14:02:04 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-24#1026316 << update: this trashed sync rate, lol
0c23e0bc8f4fa05b…454cbe04…2023-05-26 14:03:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-24 10:50:08 signpost: I changed the return to false, and made the inventory update conditional on block acceptance, and am seeing whether that does anything
3efa84010c23e0bc…8f4fa05b…2023-05-26 14:02:18 <signpost> the convoluted semantics in this thing are offensive!11!11 reeee
81ce18f8de7d7707…de7d7707…2023-05-26 14:36:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: asciilifeform had n cycles of putting it down, then ~yr or whatnot later starting to think it's a 'reasonable' proggy that can be despaghetti'd, rinse, repeat
17247691b7ec10ad…b7ec10ad…2023-05-26 14:38:20 <asciilifeform> the 1 and only Right Thing to do with trb is to rewrite it sanely, but that sword is still firmly in the stone and likely to stay there.
57c5628917247691…221a2e30…2023-05-26 14:38:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-19 asciilifeform: 'not quite bitcoin', asciilifeform's demo of adaistic ab-initio mechanisms for hypothetical replacement of trb
dd9bcf3a57c56289…3efa8401…2023-05-26 14:43:54 <signpost> yeah, just reacquainting myself with the turd. nqb is the right thing, and I will help build it in retirement barring all else :p
ff8ebef5dd9bcf3a…17247691…2023-05-26 15:43:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: it's a vehehery small piece of what is imho Right Thing
6a5d8aefff8ebef5…ff8ebef5…2023-05-26 15:44:10 <asciilifeform> ( 'knows' the block & tx format, but no attempt at the script state machine much less the hashes, ecdsa, etc , not even to mention the noad protocol )
a05cdb446a5d8aef…6a5d8aef…2023-05-26 15:45:05 asciilifeform orig. intended to bolt it to trb in place of the laffable db there. gave up 100% -- makes separating conjoined twins look trivial in comparison
f5641627a05cdb44…a05cdb44…2023-05-26 15:50:29 <asciilifeform> the unfortunate fact is that approximately nobody has any serious incentive to go on that 'mars mission'.
216a0833f5641627…57c56289…2023-05-26 15:50:30 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-02 asciilifeform: not aware of any heathen org with a serious interest in bitcoin other than from pov of subverting it, or at least tolerating existing subversions (e.g. segshit), so would be rather odd imho.
41b19a29216a0833…216a0833…2023-05-26 15:50:30 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-02 asciilifeform: asciilifeform suspects that ~errybody understands that no one will be 'getting rich and famous' from trb.
e6893a8741b19a29…f5641627…2023-05-26 15:50:46 <asciilifeform> ( and it being 1 of those missions that if done 'unseriously' -- worse than not at all )
a722ae11e6893a87…e6893a87…2023-05-26 15:54:17 <asciilifeform> e.g. phinance 'industry' runs on over9000 piles of shit, and just about all of'em even moar rancid than prb, replacing the latter is somewhere near dead last afaik priority in their pov
c329ba94a722ae11…a722ae11…2023-05-26 15:58:31 <asciilifeform> see also e.g. and of course phf's threads.
d8ecf574c329ba94…41b19a29…2023-05-26 15:58:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: but larger point, dun matter whether have 3 tandem cpu and provably correct avionics stack, or hemp ropes like wright brothers, if the failed society doesn't in fact need (or can afford) airplane in any kinda mass
4afb17d5d8ecf574…d8ecf574…2023-05-26 15:58:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 phf: but i also stand by my words. it is larping, of the kind that you yourself often ranted against. using ada doesn't make you an avionics engineer, nor does it sprinkle your code with some magic of serious meaning
6f84738fc373bfba…d7abc544…2023-05-26 18:16:40 <asciilifeform> ^ needs anuther 0 ( in current reference frame! ) befoar asciilifeform could 'pull sword'. ( can't speak for other folx, obv. )
29b7805e6f84738f…4afb17d5…2023-05-26 18:16:40 <dulapbot> (alethepedia) 2020-10-11 asciilifeform: thimbronion: the altcoinists -- sure . but i was speaking of the fact that the exch rate prolly aint growing another 0 -- or rather, not w/out the dollar price of archaetypical sandwich also growing a zero.
4ab055ff29b7805e…6f84738f…2023-05-26 18:36:39 <asciilifeform> meanwhile! the folx in parallel universe still kickin', catch up to where we were in '21.
9898d3844ab055ff…29b7805e…2023-05-26 18:36:40 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 13:27:45 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in sumthing completely different: this d00d apparently still in biz, sweating to bake own FG ( complains about 'unreadable schematics'
67dd62ca8de4abb2…8de4abb2…2023-05-26 18:39:44 <asciilifeform> 'Registrations will mostly be granted on a first come, first served basis, but we may recognize some prior claims of the elite. This amounts to a hand-cranked, embryonic stage of a new JWRD-centric Web of Trust, providing support for efficient evaluation of text found both in the channel and beyond, based on its source.'
5eb56018683e430b…683e430b…2023-05-26 18:46:56 asciilifeform saw they've purportedly a mempool viewer. ( asciilifeform not tried )
f7c761cd5eb56018…5eb56018…2023-05-26 18:52:04 <asciilifeform> variously interesting gibblets -- e.g. d00d bakes a protocol where finds that 'Other ISPs (both cable and fiber, in Panama) succeed in delivering 1472 byte payloads while the maximum that gets through on +Movil is 1464.'
8258a930f7c761cd…f7c761cd…2023-05-26 18:54:42 <asciilifeform> (possibly other tidbits, but asciilifeform maxed out snore)
22c45a758258a930…8258a930…2023-05-26 18:59:08 asciilifeform wonders whether there are yet other mp cargocult sects in biz sumwhere, outside of asciilifeform's light cone
08e3644bd7c02f01…eba3f7be…2023-05-28 03:35:49 <awt> Managed to ram a broadcast through the new station.
07d02468af543eba…08e3644b…2023-05-28 04:58:37 <awt> signpost: yeah. single-threaded python 2.7 with integrated IRC server -> multi-threaded python3 with a json api available over a tcp socket for clients (including the gui I've been working on).
e2ef4b6cef7033ca…5b488d81…2023-05-30 00:46:13 <awt> having an api interface is nice for doing end to end packet combo tests
b71f7b6d9bd11f4a…9bd11f4a…2023-05-30 03:43:22 <awt> Whoever wrote this IRC client I'm ripping off could have written a beautiful pest client in a fraction of the time it's taking me.
68864e2271241463…ba0e7786…2023-05-30 16:58:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-29#1026457 << very nifty. this is the py gui client ?
3941ab3868864e22…0c23e0bc…2023-05-30 17:00:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-29 23:43:50 awt: Got nick tab completion working.
d632aeea8203ce54…8203ce54…2023-05-30 18:36:24 <awt> asciilifeform: For out of order packets, are you planning to send them directly to the gui/client after issuing a getdata and just let the gui decide what to do with it?
63b6bb45d632aeea…68864e22…2023-05-30 18:37:15 <asciilifeform> awt: correct ( tho ftr implies a bit moar separation b/w guiism & 'engine' than asciilifeform is having )
374acfa263b6bb45…d632aeea…2023-05-30 18:38:22 <awt> I believe this explains the presence of the timestamp ordered tab in your station impl.?
b99ddb5c061b13fc…374acfa2…2023-05-30 18:44:25 <awt> One thought I had for handling broadcasts from foreign nets (i.e. no ancestor found) was to pop open a new tab and tack on any descendants as they arrive). Could insert into the main tab later if somehow a common ancestor appears.
d17d686eb99ddb5c…061b13fc…2023-05-30 18:47:30 <asciilifeform> awt: imho sounds rather ugh ( new tab, and now can have over9000 tabs? and search box nao worx only in a given tab? )
743651ead17d686e…b99ddb5c…2023-05-30 18:50:46 <awt> right? but the alternative is yet another "order buffer" afaics
eea6cb1a743651ea…d17d686e…2023-05-30 18:53:31 <asciilifeform> the alternative, afaik, is to permit reordering of lines in the gui (if a missing predecessor arrives, or 'sort by...' button is hit)
0ffecf80eea6cb1a…eea6cb1a…2023-05-30 18:54:19 <asciilifeform> (if in mode 'sort by time', no need for any reordering/redraw)
c4cd054f0ffecf80…743651ea…2023-05-30 18:58:14 <awt> In that case the message would not be visible in the 'sort by message hash' view until a predecessor arrives?
252d5c5ac4cd054f…0ffecf80…2023-05-30 18:58:15 <asciilifeform> awt: does your gui actually try to store ~all~ lines scrollable in the window, in a dedicated buffer ? ( asciilifeform's wx attempt -- does not )
dd6b7a7be1e1791b…252d5c5a…2023-05-30 18:59:21 <asciilifeform> awt: in asciilifeform's scheme, if a precedent is null/missing, msg is displayed 'by time'
36f064bfdd6b7a7b…dd6b7a7b…2023-05-30 18:59:57 <asciilifeform> awt: ideally you dun want to store all msgs (from entire history of universe !) in a 2nd buffer. this'll be terribly gnarly/slow
96fb2b2636f064bf…36f064bf…2023-05-30 19:00:22 <asciilifeform> only store the # that fit on screenfull (and from period calculated from scrollbar pos)
58d70ff996fb2b26…e1e1791b…2023-05-30 19:00:40 <awt> asciilifeform: yes. saving that fun for later though.
7676568e069ee656…58d70ff9…2023-05-30 19:01:57 <awt> I think phf mentioned he loaded in a novel's worth without issue so I think I have some time.
243059257676568e…069ee656…2023-05-30 19:03:54 <asciilifeform> prolly not catastrophic issue ~until~ you potentially need to reload entire universe on acct of a gap fill
1c5e7f8024305925…7676568e…2023-05-30 19:05:24 <awt> I believe it's fairly straigh forward to insert lines anywhere in a Text. Could be some issues retagging regions though.
004a98621c5e7f80…24305925…2023-05-30 19:07:02 <asciilifeform> while it's a txt (rather than complex soup w/ inline imgs etc)
9ff7bc37ca5e5186…ca5e5186…2023-05-30 19:08:56 <awt> Still not entirely sure how to keep track of inline images in the tree.
6662525c9ff7bc37…004a9862…2023-05-30 19:22:27 <asciilifeform> afaik the only pill there is some variant of this
1669b1126662525c…3941ab38…2023-05-30 19:24:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-30 15:02:05 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot]: only store the # that fit on screenfull (and from period calculated from scrollbar pos)
e64bc88b551e74c4…5cc14987…2023-06-02 16:45:47 <awt> I do miss the interplay with the liberal arts side of things mp provided.
eab6ff56e64bc88b…e64bc88b…2023-06-02 16:47:20 <awt> The "read old books" + "ability to enter commands in a linux shell" intersection is small.
672fd7d353a87c74…53a87c74…2023-06-02 17:17:20 <awt> There was a personal touch to the web that is largely gone. Everything now has a slight stench of afiliate marketing, politics, or "information service"
5f746345672fd7d3…cc63b5a0…2023-06-02 17:28:59 <asciilifeform> awt: boox + shell + freetime ~= nullset
ab07fc32c5706da1…5f746345…2023-06-02 17:31:56 <asciilifeform> as cost of living -> inf, pressure on folx with 'human' www (the kind with over9000 audience, but not even exclusively) to mix in 'marketing' & 'service' similarly -> inf.
b868ced297e7bd83…ab07fc32…2023-06-02 17:36:04 <asciilifeform> many moar folx (to whom no one is offering judas's 30 silver) simply dried up
f64a57a5db22c080…b868ced2…2023-06-02 17:38:27 asciilifeform for instance sitting on a tall pile of various unfinished things, and errytime picks 1 up, salt mine eventually blows his cache like the 'handicap bell' in k.vonnegut's harrison bergeron
eafed84ff64a57a5…db22c080…2023-06-02 17:38:59 <awt> asciilifeform: is why I'm busting my ass to get the new pest station up
2c7621f6095637b6…4748fad1…2023-06-02 17:41:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026503 << 'here are the snake oils to drink if you want harem and $maxint'. over9000 of these
158f84992c7621f6…1669b112…2023-06-02 17:43:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 13:39:09 awt: There's also the "self improvement" stench.
df21b602158f8499…2c7621f6…2023-06-02 17:42:42 asciilifeform recently saw some lul where one andrew tate gives vaguely mpesque lecture re 'making it' while standing in front of shelf of snake oils
d319d87b8f20f66f…df21b602…2023-06-02 17:45:59 <asciilifeform> iirc bankman was quite the aficionado of 'injected'
4cbe8486d319d87b…d319d87b…2023-06-02 17:46:18 <asciilifeform> even had tame prescriber on payroll, a la herr doktor morrel
88ddabf74cbe8486…8f20f66f…2023-06-02 17:46:21 <awt> I will say that some of the nootropics do have a limited effect.
c18dc2a77bd30a71…4cbe8486…2023-06-02 17:47:34 <asciilifeform> over9000 things have effect. problem is that it dun translate to pedalling somehow so fast as to pedal yer way off salt mine treadmill
48233aefc18dc2a7…7bd30a71…2023-06-02 17:49:43 <awt> "here's how to earn bucks while you shirk your w2": http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QrG5
6738285458f170e7…9898d384…2023-06-02 17:50:41 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-17 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: see e.g. dope threads.
78f3de477ef9f980…67382854…2023-06-02 17:52:13 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-08-05 asciilifeform: cns comes with own adrenergic 'gas pedal', which most (but interesting, not ALL) of the dopes rely on.
5d74f07678f3de47…7ef9f980…2023-06-02 17:57:25 <asciilifeform> re dopes, imho ultimately even if 'worx' -- rather like diff b/w driving toyota and ferrari while stuck in traffic just the same.
888de6355d74f076…48233aef…2023-06-02 17:58:56 <awt> Took some dope to implement something that didn't quite fit in head by deadline - naturally the result was never used.
44f75b37888de635…5d74f076…2023-06-02 17:59:32 <asciilifeform> prolly fully half of programmers would admit to having done this (other half -- did, but won't admit)
938dda7244f75b37…44f75b37…2023-06-02 18:07:17 <asciilifeform> upstack re 'marketing stench' -- when asciilifeform smells a whiff of it, tunes out $www . nao is left with ~0 www regularly reads, other than the l0g
abb08beb938dda72…888de635…2023-06-02 18:13:01 <awt> I think the substitue for the ipnoe crowd is instagram
76dc7ec57f441e4c…7f441e4c…2023-06-02 18:13:34 <awt> Why write a blog post when you can post a captioned video?
4268b08d76dc7ec5…938dda72…2023-06-02 18:17:22 asciilifeform not able to muster any interest in 'post-literacy bloggers'
82fcf40b4268b08d…4268b08d…2023-06-02 18:18:32 <asciilifeform> even 'pirate radio' was moar interesting, imho -- at least there had the minimal 'iq test' of 'get the gear together' and min. courage in face of gestapo
31a62b2282fcf40b…c5706da1…2023-06-02 18:28:31 <phf> i watch some centrist grifters, as a kind of saturday night entertainment
0e7b9d14f4c81601…31a62b22…2023-06-02 18:32:24 <phf> hickok45, the critical drinker, pafrenon (russian stuff), jocko podcast, hardcore zen, celebrating appalachia, civvie 11, dogen, марина галкина (russian backpacking lady)
d95749e2d781f8d7…0e7b9d14…2023-06-02 18:32:41 <phf> is what i get when i grep my rss reader for youtube feeds
ac13d8d2d95749e2…d95749e2…2023-06-02 18:36:06 <phf> and also a whole bunch of equestrians which is the only "practical" value i get from youtube
eaed34b7ac13d8d2…ac13d8d2…2023-06-02 18:37:01 <phf> like this man is a ledgend https://www.youtube.com/@PatnDebPuckett/videos and outside of going to workshops once a year i would've not otherwise had an opportunity to see him work
21cd3274eaed34b7…eaed34b7…2023-06-02 18:39:02 <phf> you can download the videos and then frame by frame his cues and reactions, and that's basically priceless, something you won't even get at a workshop, because after multiple rewatches you can see or generally learn to see the things that he's seeing, while similar situation would often be lost on you in a workshop
e657e11f21cd3274…21cd3274…2023-06-02 18:41:25 <phf> you get this pockets of 1990s website building happening here and there, done by people who are not technologically savy and are otherwise removed from the culture wars. pat doesn't know any better, doesn't need to know any better, and is better off not knowing any better. the fact PͺJ2Vleuȑ'6h>2%
3fb5d8f0e657e11f…e657e11f…2023-06-02 18:41:25 <phf> that he releases unique priceless content on essentially hostile platform is a great shame, but i don't know how to redress it. something i think tmsr struggle but ultimately lost against. PͺJ2Vleuȑ'6h>2%
cb6d3a893fb5d8f0…3fb5d8f0…2023-06-02 18:43:03 <phf> and of course for every pat there's grifters with million views doing southern twang and cowboy getup larping for the off the grid aspirational crowd
619cc1adcb6d3a89…cb6d3a89…2023-06-02 18:45:42 <phf> like there's this guy, https://www.youtube.com/@DryCreekWranglerSchool/videos and i don't want to talk trash on him, because i couldn't sit through the one video that i tried watching. just like old man rambling with a touch of grift, masquerading as some kind of cowboy wisdom. for #Z0Ȃ+}E[
230b0571619cc1ad…619cc1ad…2023-06-02 18:45:42 <phf> all i know he's some kind of real deal, but his face makes me uneasy #Z0Ȃ+}E[
e8b22fb9230b0571…230b0571…2023-06-02 18:47:26 <phf> something that mp used to make fun of, grown men boys still looking for a father figure, and there's plenty of people to oblige. jocko, tate, this dry creek wrangler guy, etc. etc.
6c8421cae8b22fb9…d781f8d7…2023-06-02 18:49:40 <awt> The internet has been way more informative than my dad, that's for sure.
37de3c176c8421ca…e8b22fb9…2023-06-02 18:51:21 <phf> sure, but internet itself is not your dad. if you got fucked out by your parents, you gotta grow up, and basically accept that it's the experience you're never going to have. something that used to be a common wisdom and common sense. but now you either don't grow up at all (funkop q;k%(TB
G3isR
4e42606e37de3c17…37de3c17…2023-06-02 18:51:21 <phf> op crowd), or you try and grow up in your 30s guided by ethot fathers q;k%(TB
G3isR
ff74c1a84e42606e…4e42606e…2023-06-02 18:54:10 <phf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QhdQXqTwI "thoughts on becoming a proper kind of man" 1.2m views, first fiew minutes is the "we're almost at 90 thousand subrscribers! and blah blah blah", with a cigar and twang though
10783b93ff74c1a8…ff74c1a8…2023-06-02 18:55:16 <phf> funny, this is clean slate browser window and i'm getting jocko in the recommendations. "if you like this father, you might also like this other father"
613dfb0810783b93…6c8421ca…2023-06-02 18:58:26 <awt> There were no ethot fathers in my 20s and 30s. Closest substitute was a judo instructor.
5344ebca55f024f5…10783b93…2023-06-02 18:59:37 <phf> i think irl surrogate dad is legit, tried and true method. because it's not just pornography, at the end of the day he can tell you that you're stupid when you are. jocko doesn't talk back
18fa1d285344ebca…55f024f5…2023-06-02 19:02:43 <awt> Stefan Molyneux will take your calls - but that's all you get - one convo - bookended by "like and subscribe"
1dabc97a18fa1d28…18fa1d28…2023-06-02 19:03:48 <awt> But yes one of his main themes is - accept you'll never have the experience
4c3112951dabc97a…5344ebca…2023-06-02 19:05:09 <phf> well, the other theme, which i think was a stable tmsr theme is to paraphrase for the purposes of this conversation "what it is that you say you do"
bea1efb44c311295…1dabc97a…2023-06-02 19:06:09 <awt> As in, you reveal what you do through what you say, or you must do what you say you will do?
e31711a1bea1efb4…4c311295…2023-06-02 19:08:15 <phf> well, the original is from the russian prison question "who are you in life?" which is a question to establish your prison cast, but it's not answered with "i'm a thief" it's answered with a kind of personal biography which essentially defines who you are
1bfd0a15e31711a1…e31711a1…2023-06-02 19:10:32 <phf> "first time i went in 68, for 10 years in Solovki prison #12" "you must know mack the knife" "i know mack the knife, we've been brothers" "then i came back and did some odd jobs and life in big prison was not to my liking so i went back to solovki for another 10 years to prison #50 uN_:n>339iV:K;={S^E{
c71851291bfd0a15…1bfd0a15…2023-06-02 19:10:32 <phf> , where i sat with john the hatchet" "i know john the hatchest" etc. uN_:n>339iV:K;={S^E{
a1489acfc7185129…c7185129…2023-06-02 19:11:16 <phf> of course in worse case you answer with "oh i dunno tee hee, i'm just like a guy, you know" which basically means that you're a fag, whether you know it or not
4e5ad88fa1489acf…a1489acf…2023-06-02 19:12:07 <phf> was kind of interesting to see the repeat of that very prison interaction on #t over and over again, various all comers will join, and when presented with variotion of the question, they'll hedge and hem and make lame jokes and try and front
5bbb354bfc73d07f…fc73d07f…2023-06-02 19:14:28 <awt> need moar noobs - if only for entertainment purposes.
10b26a085bbb354b…4e5ad88f…2023-06-02 19:20:57 <phf> so from this perspective the problem of shit content is inside out, i can watch pat for hours working the same horse over and over and over again "like watching tortoise die", but 5 minutes of a grifter is like "get to the fucking point jesus christ i'm dying here"
bdaff7ef10b26a08…10b26a08…2023-06-02 19:22:05 <phf> 5 minutes is overstatement, 2 minutes maybe? "and don't forget ot like and su..[cllose tab]"
287af253bdaff7ef…bdaff7ef…2023-06-02 19:23:35 <phf> so maybe shit content is kind of like heroin, and william burroughs's point that "one gets addicted to heroin from boredom only"
47322e3c287af253…5bbb354b…2023-06-02 19:24:58 <awt> There's always the chance the new guy might know john the hatchet.
b20d92ea47322e3c…287af253…2023-06-02 19:26:46 <phf> i think that's why #t was on freenode, the original idea was not lolcow collection, but that a serious bzns person will just walk from the street
a85e93aeb20d92ea…b20d92ea…2023-06-02 19:27:46 <phf> *remained on freenode long past when it was meaningful, instead of running own instance or whatever
e21470f0a85e93ae…a85e93ae…2023-06-02 19:28:52 <phf> but yeah to the original http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-02#1026909 i feel like the general quality of what one randomly stumbles on the internet has gone down. like there's been another wave, or something
f5b2ac8ce21470f0…78f3de47…2023-06-02 19:28:52 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 13:29:25 phf: awt, i've been thinking similar thoughts
7ae18f2548da9bd8…e21470f0…2023-06-02 19:34:35 <phf> i've used to check hackernews comments, and while i would mostly disagree with things, or sometimes disagree with things, or at least find enough substance in the comments to muster disagreement or ire, from the perspective of "well, this is pod people logic, i hate them, but i see >=bN^ Da- wIzÎ
1486ea797ae18f25…7ae18f25…2023-06-02 19:34:35 <phf> where they are coming from", this is no longer the case. there's no cultural or historic cohesion to the comments anymore. it's like a bunch of farmers on a market street corner yelling things at each other >=bN^ Da- wIzÎ
d2bd3fe61486ea79…1486ea79…2023-06-02 19:35:56 <phf> "i heard the pope wills it, it's an indulgencia" "it's devils work i tell ya" "cow for sale, got cow for sale" "the pop has been sent by the spanish to rule over the honest englishmen, he's in bed with the spanish queen"
5b05cbb9be00c064…d2bd3fe6…2023-06-02 19:52:29 <phf> i wonder if some of it is certain generation slowly dropping out. freaks like thomas ptacek are fewer and farther between, mechanisms of knowledge transfer (or lore transfer) are fully defanged, etc.
3f56ca4fd1749b71…d1749b71…2023-06-02 19:56:17 <awt> But perhaps yes. I personally had no professional mentors - although that probably says more about me than the system.
466391e93f56ca4f…5b05cbb9…2023-06-02 19:56:45 <phf> physiognomy is real, mr ptacek https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ySTmaxj-mQc/hqdefault.jpg
730f1646d8f33b39…466391e9…2023-06-02 19:58:54 <phf> that's his 2010 photo, i suspect he grew the beard since? i dunno, that's the first time i look him up
f05457d2149c1b25…730f1646…2023-06-02 20:02:02 <phf> ptacek would come out in force at all the cryptography projects that asciilifeform would release back before they would just flag any mentions of asciilifeform outright (though these days with the tmsr more and more distant memory, ascii went back to merely ignored)
0e0d786ef05457d2…f05457d2…2023-06-02 20:04:37 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-02#1027001 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTDENzpW7tw
e3f55fba0e0d786e…f5b2ac8c…2023-06-02 20:04:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:59:57 awt[asciilifeform]: https://twitter.com/patio11/photo
de2c48f9e3f55fba…149c1b25…2023-06-02 20:10:06 <awt> lol yeah - met him in person at a grifter conf many years ago. Incredibly self confident dork.
34d9e02ade2c48f9…0e0d786e…2023-06-02 20:13:33 <phf> i feel like i used to be a lot more tolerant of that kind of stuff
b9c0e5d634d9e02a…34d9e02a…2023-06-02 20:14:57 <phf> particularly back when believed that there was some kind of cyber jockey brotherhood :>
e1f0a637a7e917fe…b9c0e5d6…2023-06-02 20:22:09 <phf> hackers have been thoroughly subverted, l0pht personal account written in the past few months, where author laments about how bad things were because there was a lack of representation
c0dd4d1be1f0a637…a7e917fe…2023-06-02 20:23:53 <awt> endured the latest spiderman for my daughter yesterday - lots of representation now. The spiderman captain was literally a pregnant black lady on a chopper.
4ca2307ec0dd4d1b…e1f0a637…2023-06-02 20:25:10 <phf> i only know about these things through critical drinker
271b021254f137c8…54f137c8…2023-06-02 20:26:56 <awt> Villain was a white man - like - literally his whole body was white - until he achieved super-villainy by turning himself into a black hole.
b5fb1b49271b0212…1e858be1…2023-06-02 20:27:17 <phf> that's problematic, the hole was clearly also white
1ad8789fb5fb1b49…271b0212…2023-06-02 20:27:38 <awt> Well, he didn't achieve greatness until he became black
8ed97355998d0c40…998d0c40…2023-06-02 20:32:55 <phf> i mean the jokes write themselves, critical drinker has a whole movie review grift built on this particular joke
c809354d8ed97355…1ad8789f…2023-06-02 21:13:45 <awt> There is some stuff with a personal touch I've read recently - but you gotta pay for the ebook - see delicious tacos. In olden days would have been in blog form.
df509473c809354d…82fcf40b…2023-06-02 21:31:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026540 << asciilifeform concedes that he's among the least qualified to eval this, but loox neato
43cb0ebedf509473…158f8499…2023-06-02 21:33:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 14:38:37 phf[4]: like this man is a ledgend https://www.youtube.com/@PatnDebPuckett/videos and outside of going to workshops once a year i would've not otherwise had an opportunity to see him work
6d2a95e443cb0ebe…df509473…2023-06-02 21:34:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026564 << imho was 1 of the most surreal experiences in #t era. ( asciilifeform: 'wai would $n00b deliberately insist on being a clown' etc )
542b826c6d2a95e4…43cb0ebe…2023-06-02 21:36:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:13:43 phf[4]: was kind of interesting to see the repeat of that very prison interaction on #t over and over again, various all comers will join, and when presented with variotion of the question, they'll hedge and hem and make lame jokes and try and front
e29a70d2542b826c…6d2a95e4…2023-06-02 21:36:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026572 << mp was actually clear re this pt ( many times offered but refused 'let's stand up own irc' , explicitly had aims of 'terraforming' fleanode et al )
ca3d2eb0e29a70d2…542b826c…2023-06-02 21:38:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:29:22 phf[4]: *remained on freenode long past when it was meaningful, instead of running own instance or whatever
c4339ee7ca3d2eb0…e29a70d2…2023-06-02 21:37:51 <asciilifeform> ( in the last 2-3y of #t, the 'walkers in from street' were no longer of the type who looked at chan list, but rather the sort that were deliberately invited, given instructions for fleanode visit. could've just as readily been pointed to equiv of 'dulapnet' )
b788e2b3c4339ee7…c4339ee7…2023-06-02 21:39:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026583 << recall thrd. and yes
d6e58885b788e2b3…e3f55fba…2023-06-02 21:39:11 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2016-08-17 phf: Framedragger: i was young and a bum, i recognized all these people because my entertainment machine would reinforce their presence for me. "oh jwz is talking. oh now it's ptacek. oh it's paul graham! squee". but they were always in a different category from say norvig or knuth or naggum. once i st
b809e4e7b788e2b3…ca3d2eb0…2023-06-02 21:40:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:54:05 phf[4]: i wonder if some of it is certain generation slowly dropping out. freaks like thomas ptacek are fewer and farther between, mechanisms of knowledge transfer (or lore transfer) are fully defanged, etc.
036111c2b809e4e7…b788e2b3…2023-06-02 21:39:45 <asciilifeform> even this grade of hn nao nostalgic memory imho.
b605567c036111c2…036111c2…2023-06-02 21:42:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026592 << today (or rather, however many yrs ago that asciilifeform still had notions of 'preaching to the birds') no longer need 'flag any mentions' etc
6bc16ea8b605567c…d6e58885…2023-06-02 21:42:39 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-05-17 davout: HN now displays "Why Japanese Toilets Are Failing in America (2013)" higher than this
8182bdd8b605567c…b809e4e7…2023-06-02 21:44:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 16:03:37 phf[4]: ptacek would come out in force at all the cryptography projects that asciilifeform would release back before they would just flag any mentions of asciilifeform outright (though these days with the tmsr more and more distant memory, ascii went back to merely ignored)
32e9631f8182bdd8…b605567c…2023-06-02 21:43:42 <asciilifeform> ... precisely for the reason phf cited. who needs meticulous censorship when bazar. can say whatever you like, there's 'no one home' to hear
8618e3af32e9631f…8182bdd8…2023-06-02 21:45:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:37:31 phf[4]: "i heard the pope wills it, it's an indulgencia" "it's devils work i tell ya" "cow for sale, got cow for sale" "the pop has been sent by the spanish to rule over the honest englishmen, he's in bed with the spanish queen"
896dce9de311e01f…6bc16ea8…2023-06-02 21:45:58 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2019-03-14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-
0759d877896dce9d…e311e01f…2023-06-02 21:55:17 asciilifeform was at one pt naive enuff to think that hn 'come out in force' mouthpieces were actually ~paid~ by reich. whereas today imho obv that no such thing is happening, they are paid like hajja nasredin 'paid' the baker -- w/ the jingle of coins
1369fc760759d877…c809354d…2023-06-02 22:44:22 <awt> Incidentally I have the #pest channel on libera irc. I plan to put in a bridge bot at some point.
cbbaa1a11369fc76…1369fc76…2023-06-02 22:45:09 <awt> Dunno why anyone would wander in at this point though, but at least I can direct people there from the web.
23151616cbbaa1a1…cbbaa1a1…2023-06-02 22:46:44 <awt> If gpg weren't such a hairball I would consider adding some key sharing automation to the gui.
b032522623151616…23151616…2023-06-02 22:48:52 <awt> Would be nice to automatically generate and encrypt a key, then post to paste.deedbot.org.
566af478b0325226…b0325226…2023-06-02 22:59:12 <awt> actually hmm: https://pythonhosted.org/python-gnupg/
ef3c669ea5e99963…a5e99963…2023-06-03 19:01:16 <awt> hi there server kindkly shut yourself down. No I'd rather not.
19d5c20def3c669e…af543eba…2023-06-04 17:29:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026494 << intersection with these and those that don't give a fuck that the world's in decline is even smaller.
d252274319d5c20d…8618e3af…2023-06-04 17:31:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 12:48:55 awt: The "read old books" + "ability to enter commands in a linux shell" intersection is small.
1aab5629d2522743…19d5c20d…2023-06-04 17:31:55 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026516 << oxiracetam works well enough on me I decided once was enough, had to have unseen cost. turns out it increases brain cancer risk.
6b5cbdf61aab5629…d2522743…2023-06-04 17:33:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 13:48:03 awt: I will say that some of the nootropics do have a limited effect.
8976faafbbca4b5d…bbca4b5d…2023-06-04 17:34:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026555 << imho this is the proper structure of civ, a hierarchy of these.
08297a3d8976faaf…6b5cbdf6…2023-06-04 17:36:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:01:13 phf[4]: i think irl surrogate dad is legit, tried and true method. because it's not just pornography, at the end of the day he can tell you that you're stupid when you are. jocko doesn't talk back
fe843cdc35a0c5d9…35a0c5d9…2023-06-04 17:35:25 <signpost> oldest oldfags in the tree having the dead as their dads.
03d9a77efe843cdc…fe843cdc…2023-06-04 17:37:09 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026563 << really recalibrated my sense of how bad things have gotten out there to see all these.
09b7466b03d9a77e…08297a3d…2023-06-04 17:38:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:13:05 phf[4]: of course in worse case you answer with "oh i dunno tee hee, i'm just like a guy, you know" which basically means that you're a fag, whether you know it or not
08ca0c9f09b7466b…03d9a77e…2023-06-04 17:37:32 <signpost> "nope, political revolution is entirely hopeless"
9788ab2c08ca0c9f…ef3c669e…2023-06-04 17:41:48 <awt> related: https://twitter.com/americanhodl8/status/1665388655773470727
1eae16ab9788ab2c…9788ab2c…2023-06-04 17:43:01 <awt> In person, the guy has enough charisma to be a politician - can see why he might take that stance.
df94a1761eae16ab…8ed97355…2023-06-04 17:51:51 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-04#1027051 << everybody remembers xenophone's symposium for its implied defense of pederasty as the highest form of love, but that part of text really just establishes a formal and effective system of knowledge and experience transfer in a society
7d2e1256df94a176…896dce9d…2023-06-04 17:51:52 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-04 13:34:54 signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026555 << imho this is the proper structure of civ, a hierarchy of these.
c42234c27d2e1256…09b7466b…2023-06-04 17:55:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 15:01:13 phf[4]: i think irl surrogate dad is legit, tried and true method. because it's not just pornography, at the end of the day he can tell you that you're stupid when you are. jocko doesn't talk back
30ca3afbc42234c2…df94a176…2023-06-04 17:54:51 <phf> put womens in charge of household, put mens in workshops where they can't be nagged, send boys to said workshops so they can learn from men, etc.
fb41fc3030ca3afb…08ca0c9f…2023-06-04 18:11:31 <signpost> next hilarious step in the jocko relationship is LLMs trained to be your own personal jocko.
17413b32fb41fc30…fb41fc30…2023-06-04 18:15:01 <signpost> tbh this probably isn't even bad, huge step up compared to the alternative for most people.
1173428017413b32…0759d877…2023-06-04 18:18:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-04#1026638 << link ? ( 1st time hearing re a carcinogenic xyzracetam )
6e7dc48611734280…c42234c2…2023-06-04 18:19:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-04 13:33:46 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026516 << oxiracetam works well enough on me I decided once was enough, had to have unseen cost. turns out it increases brain cancer risk.
902900446e7dc486…17413b32…2023-06-04 18:25:18 <signpost> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6853072/ << inhibits apoptosis
0cc51b8722ad44a6…22ad44a6…2023-06-04 18:26:55 <asciilifeform> signpost: where mentions tumours tho ?
15d870210cc51b87…90290044…2023-06-04 18:27:47 <signpost> doesn't, I guess that's my inference that inhibiting cellular self-destruct would increase risk of cancers.
9a95c0fc15d87021…0cc51b87…2023-06-04 18:28:51 <asciilifeform> ( signpost's theoretical prediction imho sound -- e.g. vitamin e & other free radical eaters do seem to have the apoptosis tradeoff, but afaik not dramatically )
08346f009a95c0fc…9a95c0fc…2023-06-04 18:31:03 asciilifeform pov : interesting q is not 'is $dope carcinogenic' but rather 'is $dope moar carcinogenic than my tapwater/food/etc'
935af6e708346f00…08346f00…2023-06-04 18:34:46 <asciilifeform> signpost: that being said -- re 'unseen costs', 'magick powders' (in particular, if eaten regularly) usually come w/ much moar immediate ones than '+x% cancer'
2b1127e9935af6e7…15d87021…2023-06-04 18:54:55 <signpost> oh sure, chicom chemlabs giving you ??? for your money
2bfed7986519ef2a…6519ef2a…2023-07-24 09:08:31 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-04-11#1114799 << don't even get me started
f5dee8092bfed798…3f53141b…2023-07-24 09:08:34 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-04-11 vex: bants aside, crtdaydreams, are you still working on any big projects? I can't quite remember the details.
be5621a3f59f2269…f59f2269…2023-07-24 09:09:12 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-03-17#1114734 << ^^^
5e919615ee5740db…025e2c25…2023-06-04 22:03:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-02#1026632 << recall, signpost wrote a compleat bot for this!
377a6975be5621a3…f5dee809…2023-07-24 09:09:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-03-17 vex: crtdaydreams oughta run for office. first order of business, email wikipedia and have them ammend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
dcd4deef5e919615…6e7dc486…2023-06-04 22:05:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 18:50:26 awt: Would be nice to automatically generate and encrypt a key, then post to paste.deedbot.org.
0c7acf0d377a6975…80c69e42…2023-07-24 09:14:41 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-03-25#1114773 << all I got is dead grass and wheat stubble
58ad90aa0c7acf0d…377a6975…2023-07-24 09:14:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-03-25 vex: if theres no merinos, we'll push on
c4f829aa58ad90aa…0c7acf0d…2023-07-24 09:15:36 <crtdaydreams> merinos wouldn't do real well, you'd only ever get the top half, the bottom half would be in 3ft of mud
3a331fceeb5ae6e9…eb5ae6e9…2023-06-05 00:44:14 <awt> Might be able to get it working through a bridge
2f131c0ecfe028f2…cfe028f2…2023-06-05 02:10:57 <awt> Writing this pest client has started to make me realize how limiting being a Rails developer has been. That shit is just pulling levers.
d326ceaec63e280b…c63e280b…2023-06-05 02:26:44 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. would suffice to plug deedbot in on whatever heathen net; ask folx to get in wot and issue !!peer handle , they can then peer w/ deedbot on pestnet )
0f575a5923b73380…23b73380…2023-06-05 15:51:57 <awt> https://twitter.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/1665736512451883008 << SEC sues Binance
a6dbe57e0f575a59…0f575a59…2023-06-05 15:56:13 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-04#1026654 << https://twitter.com/aisolopreneur/status/1665695277997498370
d8e287d8a6dbe57e…dcd4deef…2023-06-05 15:57:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-04 14:13:10 signpost: next hilarious step in the jocko relationship is LLMs trained to be your own personal jocko.
1008aed7d8e287d8…a6dbe57e…2023-06-05 20:41:05 <awt> I can now simulate a pestnet of arbitrary size: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=IlcK
0db9f1b31008aed7…00000000…2023-06-05 21:47:17 <phf> i was thinking about pest as a kind of universal messaging protocol, this is perhaps a niche application (lol, niche), but one of the things i've been keeping in the back of my mind is torturing the implementation into routing telegram messages for me
ac7d00ee0db9f1b3…0db9f1b3…2023-06-05 21:50:41 <phf> so there's a counterparty station, that sends "fake" hearsay messages, which would be easy. the feature that's not supported is dm's to hearsay peers. obviously it would be insecure under normal circumstances, since relay counterparty decodes messages, but maybe in cases where you e /z~P _
2c497ce4ac7d00ee…ac7d00ee…2023-06-05 21:50:41 <phf> control the relay counterparty? or cases where relay counterparty is a proxy for some heathen protocol e /z~P _
389f209d2c497ce4…2c497ce4…2023-06-05 21:56:52 <phf> but the other idea that i had is an explicit threaded view for the messages, so you could use pest as a proxy for various forums. each message (or multi-part message) is treated as single post, and the replies are netchained to their corresponding parent messages. so instead of bei N:H\GymIRPưŌ
2e1bd453389f209d…389f209d…2023-06-05 21:56:52 <phf> ng a linear progression of messages, it's instead an outline. N:H\GymIRPưŌ
f078ef6a3b6c387f…1008aed7…2023-06-05 22:07:28 <awt> phf: I sort of bumped into the threading idea when contemplating a telegram/discord bridge bot. Gotta translate the threads somehow.
cec5f0a3f078ef6a…3b6c387f…2023-06-05 22:09:33 <phf> we're doing some haram here, asciilifeform will not be pleased :>
eef94d62cec5f0a3…cec5f0a3…2023-06-05 22:11:26 <phf> you have two different modalities though. one is chaining, that is the graph is used to establish a sequence, and the other one is outline, where graph is used to establish a tree. pest uses the first one, where's telegram/discord will necessarily have to use the second one, which doesn't work very well with pest.
e143d712eef94d62…f078ef6a…2023-06-05 22:11:52 <awt> probably someone more interesting walkins from telgram, while discord might bring in a younger crowd.
4a5579bc39a71684…e143d712…2023-06-05 22:14:17 <awt> yes - tree is a challenge since no way to say - this is the next message vs. this is a reply.
e10c78644a5579bc…39a71684…2023-06-05 22:14:18 <phf> also you can use netchain for responding to individual hearsay messages from fake peers presented by the proxy station, but you can't initiate a conversation that way. the first message will have nothing to hang off
4d723eb862c46ac3…62c46ac3…2023-06-05 22:26:44 <phf> this is weird. how come i'm the only one relaying messages from awt to nosuchlabs? i had a bug in my code, debugged it live because lisp, did a restart and that's when this message http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-05#1027111 materialized
f32c7e294d723eb8…9cf02c98…2023-06-05 22:26:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-05 18:24:30 awt[phf]: yes - tree is a challenge since no way to say - this is the next message vs. this is a reply.
89515b574d723eb8…4a5579bc…2023-06-05 22:28:37 <awt> I think not the only one - you can see my messages coming through asciilifeform above.
711b09d6f32c7e29…4d723eb8…2023-06-05 22:27:28 <phf> but it should've arrived to nosuchlabs way earlier by virtue of being relayed by someone else?
66203cd59183410a…9183410a…2023-06-05 22:31:31 <awt> Which is odd because it should already be in my db.
5b71dd6e6836e398…6836e398…2023-06-05 22:37:26 <awt> So for this log reference, I didn't get it from anyone else, had to getdata your station for it.
509154725b71dd6e…5b71dd6e…2023-06-05 23:18:33 <awt> might be nice in the gui to have some sort of indication of "connection" quality
1f1c3e9150915472…711b09d6…2023-06-05 23:19:21 <phf> live peers: asciilifeform, awt, cgra, crtdaydreams, deedbot, dulapbot, jonsykkel, lobbes, signpost
2261c2132162ec04…2162ec04…2023-06-05 23:21:04 <phf> live peers: awt, deedbot, dulapbot, jonsykkel, lobbes, signpost
77f32ad42261c213…50915472…2023-06-05 23:21:34 <awt> I suspect my normal route to dulapbot is currently flakey
9241576a77f32ad4…2261c213…2023-06-05 23:23:11 <phf> broadcast-live-peers, http://okturing.com/src/16033/body
11ebdd099241576a…77f32ad4…2023-06-05 23:27:40 <awt> some kind of a darker and darker warning color for a decreasing moving average of packets/min from a peer might be nice
5f5e9b9c508d99c4…9241576a…2023-06-05 23:34:18 <phf> none of the packet stream is mandatory. if you're behind firewall you want to continue sending IGNORE to keep the socket alive, but otherwise…
eb601f385f5e9b9c…508d99c4…2023-06-05 23:37:13 <awt> In that case depending on the moving average window if the peer sent a broadcast regularly once a month, should be normal color until a couple months of no broadcasts.
c866e4b0eb601f38…5f5e9b9c…2023-06-05 23:38:03 <phf> that's fair, but i'm still reading my messages by looking at the raw console output, so i'm definitely not there yet
5bd5c1bbd5c3ca46…c11c316d…2023-06-06 02:57:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-05#1026695 << bridges b/w pestnet & aols, www doors, etc. imho are worth baking -- iirc we had coupla thrds re subj
78f4da065bd5c1bb…d8e287d8…2023-06-06 02:59:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-05 18:11:08 phf[4]: we're doing some haram here, asciilifeform will not be pleased :>
3ab4be6b78f4da06…5bd5c1bb…2023-06-06 02:58:08 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, with classical irc , ditto )
f7cd6c80e385fe0f…d5c3ca46…2023-06-06 04:36:51 <awt> Discovered an edge case blatta doesn't handle due to only issuing GetData once per orphan.
41fde4b7f7cd6c80…f7cd6c80…2023-06-06 04:37:50 <awt> Particularly effects poorly connected l2 stations.
9bb012b641fde4b7…41fde4b7…2023-06-06 04:47:10 <awt> I think this explains the "stuttering" syncs often seen with newly connected stations.
971bdc779bb012b6…9bb012b6…2023-06-06 13:16:15 <awt> https://twitter.com/SECGov/status/1666059252442746881
7228c70eed6c4e8a…c97501d0…2023-06-06 13:17:24 <awt> imagine selling btc on shitcoins getting crushed
e7ede59c2bb70331…e385fe0f…2023-06-06 14:23:14 <asciilifeform> waterfall never runs outta water, noose at 11
444da984e7ede59c…7228c70e…2023-06-06 14:33:30 <awt> asciilifeform: price has significantly increased (even vs. inflation) since you published the waterfall theory.
d1bcd730444da984…444da984…2023-06-06 14:35:39 <awt> And can't point to 2017 high, gotta take into account moving averages.
8ed755e1d1bcd730…29a54b4c…2023-06-06 15:38:04 <lobbes> https://archive.is/dt6PF#selection-1895.1-1895.49 << anyone else here think that these "ex-military UFO whistleblower" reports are, themselves, just a disinformation campaign?
3771ddd08ed755e1…8ed755e1…2023-06-06 15:38:07 <lobbes> I.e. business-as-usual military R&D activity, with obfuscation powered by leveraging a population (including said ex-military whistleblowers) inculcated by hollywood to have latent "little green men" beliefs
ca11ded2e74462a2…78f4da06…2023-06-06 16:49:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 12:53:58 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-12#1023036 << popularity of 'ufology' does appear to track 'reich wants to distract and corral political unreliables' 'temperature'
42f7a9bdca11ded2…f32c7e29…2023-06-06 16:48:28 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-16 asciilifeform: 'we maybe found martians' seems to get run whenever 'need noose distraction, and the arrange-postals dept. is slow'
69b90c0742f7a9bd…e74462a2…2023-06-06 16:52:01 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-06#1026741 << this is a phakt: orig. waterfall did not suffice to keep lid on exchrate. hence waterfall 2.0, with paperization.
13e0e3bd69b90c07…ca11ded2…2023-06-06 16:53:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-06 10:35:05 awt: asciilifeform: price has significantly increased (even vs. inflation) since you published the waterfall theory.
bf7cac0213e0e3bd…13e0e3bd…2023-06-06 16:53:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:40:24 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: signpost: 'they'll ban goxes! finally!' imho is an unattainable dream. goxes are the key instrument of paperization and exchrate control.
a1bba101bf7cac02…42f7a9bd…2023-06-06 16:52:09 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: the reason why various 2010s 'they'll ban goxes!' prognoses (incl. asciilifeform's) came to nuffin, is that turns out goxes are a very effective instrument of exchrate control, and
b5f3c195bf7cac02…69b90c07…2023-06-06 17:11:38 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-05#1026700 << notsure wat the difficulty is -- 1st msg from given handle on given heathen portal will have null selfchain (just as a new pest station would); netchain will be whatever the prev msg is (or null is the bot is new)
46b580abb5f3c195…bf7cac02…2023-06-06 17:13:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-05 18:16:09 phf[jonsykkel|awt]: also you can use netchain for responding to individual hearsay messages from fake peers presented by the proxy station, but you can't initiate a conversation that way. the first message will have nothing to hang off
6a786a37b2cf5eb2…3771ddd0…2023-06-06 17:45:49 <lobbes> asciilifeform: aha ty for log links re: ufology subject. fwiw I've added 'three-body problem' to my long 'intend to read' list
537732bb6a786a37…6a786a37…2023-06-06 17:46:13 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-06#1026745 << my personal meatwot has a few dedicated "I want to believe (TM)" types, so I end up coming across such articles / interviews frequently.
5df594c9537732bb…46b580ab…2023-06-06 17:47:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-06 11:56:47 awt: I haven't looked into any of them
d1cc6b775df594c9…537732bb…2023-06-06 17:48:23 lobbes does find such psyops fascinating; starting to understand how the lack of teaching proper rhetoric in US schools lubricates this process
3377aacdd1cc6b77…a1bba101…2023-06-06 17:48:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-01-18 asciilifeform: this is where 50+y of crippling ameri-education pays off for'em. the victims are unable to reject elementarily unphysical poppycock, follow simple syllogisms, etc
2380f1d63377aacd…2b1127e9…2023-06-06 18:22:46 <signpost> I assume this involves some drone-based spoofing platform they have, trying to create the cover story that it's aliens whenever we're flying it in enemy territory.
b119d0e72380f1d6…2380f1d6…2023-06-06 18:23:40 <signpost> I have no doubt there's alien life out there, and also have no doubt that human narcissism would vastly overestimate how interesting we are.
08c09842b119d0e7…b119d0e7…2023-06-06 18:24:21 <signpost> why the fuck would something be capable of step-function velocity changes, yet crash due to what, bad weather?
ec55c1bf08c09842…08c09842…2023-06-06 18:25:46 <signpost> most entertaining interpretation I can concoct is that antigrav was cracked decades ago, and the breakaway civilization is going to cull the planet of eaters soon.
a97a485bec55c1bf…ec55c1bf…2023-06-06 18:27:25 <signpost> or hell, suppose the things are alien, but they're mindless drones just taking a refueling sip of our ocean. that was my favorite thing about Rendezvous with Rama, that the alien object was completely indifferent to us.
d7aba38fa97a485b…b2cf5eb2…2023-06-06 20:20:29 <asciilifeform> crash from bad weather, but somehow only in usa and only in desert near usaf bases etc lol
aa009838d7aba38f…d7aba38f…2023-06-06 20:21:30 <asciilifeform> ( at one time 'ufo' used to regularly 'carsh' in su, but then they switched spy sats from film canisters, that had to be dropped, to digital, and 'ufo stopped' )
68cf7993bec008fc…00000000…2023-06-06 23:07:14 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-06#1027163 << if you have friend "joe" in telegram, you can send message to joe only if he's ever spoken, by relying on his netchain, but you can't initiate communication, because nothing to hang it off
8ebd7ebc68cf7993…3377aacd…2023-06-06 23:07:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-06 13:11:38 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-05#1026700 << notsure wat the difficulty is -- 1st msg from given handle on given heathen portal will have null selfchain (just as a new pest station would); netchain will be whatever the prev msg is (or null is the bot is new)
eefe6d158ebd7ebc…5df594c9…2023-06-06 23:10:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-05 18:16:09 phf[jonsykkel|awt]: also you can use netchain for responding to individual hearsay messages from fake peers presented by the proxy station, but you can't initiate a conversation that way. the first message will have nothing to hang off
c194141beefe6d15…bec008fc…2023-06-06 23:27:07 <asciilifeform> phf: a, is the notion to somehow send a priv msg (or its equiv.) via a bot which hangs off both nets ?
a2af5a86eefe6d15…68cf7993…2023-06-07 00:01:21 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-06#1027182 << yah
1ad52ef7a2af5a86…8ebd7ebc…2023-06-07 00:01:21 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-06 19:27:08 asciilifeform: phf: a, is the notion to somehow send a priv msg (or its equiv.) via a bot which hangs off both nets ?
0dab04ef1ad52ef7…c194141b…2023-06-07 01:41:18 <asciilifeform> phf: unless i misunderstand, this (i.e. asking a bot to send a privmsg on some other net, but 'pestronically') aint sumthing that pest protocol per se is a tight fit for -- you'd need to layer some command lang on top of direct msgs to $bot
08d13c6c0dab04ef…0dab04ef…2023-06-07 01:45:15 <asciilifeform> ... bot would then know where (i.e. to you) to send replies from that net, similarly as direct msg (presumably containing handle of that party on the heathen net)
3edc432f910b494c…00000000…2023-06-07 15:53:46 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-06#1027185 << correct, it is though one of those 90% there situations, and the q is what superset of pest is enough to support extended usecases, and what those usecases are. i'd like to be able to use pest as the only interface to messag R,r:z-QfA>q<*DPk
d
d4a39da73edc432f…3edc432f…2023-06-07 15:53:46 <phf> es from various sources, and extending to telegram proxy should cover the scope R,r:z-QfA>q<*DPk
d
74bac3ddd4a39da7…1ad52ef7…2023-06-07 15:53:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-06 21:41:19 asciilifeform: phf: unless i misunderstand, this (i.e. asking a bot to send a privmsg on some other net, but 'pestronically') aint sumthing that pest protocol per se is a tight fit for -- you'd need to layer some command lang on top of direct msgs to $bot
0d119f03d89f70f2…08d13c6c…2023-06-07 16:03:36 <asciilifeform> phf: seems like a deedbotesque use case, i.e. you'll have a bot with a defined command lang, perhaps a '!!help', etc. and directmsg to it, it then does various things on heathen net, potentially msgs you back, etc
aad1d97a0d119f03…0d119f03…2023-06-07 16:04:33 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, other side of such bot can be just about anyffin you like, even e.g. a shell )
8264568faad1d97a…aad1d97a…2023-06-07 16:06:02 <asciilifeform> for such thing, you only need a ~subset~ of pest, given as you aint concerned with broadcasts at all there
e6fd511d8264568f…d89f70f2…2023-06-07 16:14:05 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-07#1027192 << sort of, but i'd rather avoid deedbot-style interaction as much as i can. instead proxy has a flag enabled, and operator client has a flag enabled on proxy's station entry, and it just works™
2fae1c83e6fd511d…74bac3dd…2023-06-07 16:14:06 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-07 12:03:37 asciilifeform: phf: seems like a deedbotesque use case, i.e. you'll have a bot with a defined command lang, perhaps a '!!help', etc. and directmsg to it, it then does various things on heathen net, potentially msgs you back, etc
e6c9533c2fae1c83…e6fd511d…2023-06-07 16:15:20 <phf> but the flag should preferably also not enable/disable too large chunks of functionality
6af6f979e6c9533c…e6c9533c…2023-06-07 16:19:27 <phf> telegram is the only other 100% heathen technology client that runs on my machines, and i basically just want to get rid of it. there's nothing clever going on
c56bc1486af6f979…6af6f979…2023-06-07 16:21:16 <phf> it's also pretty easy to isolate. its c++ library has a mode that lets you sling json back and forth about the state of your client. wrap that in ffa, attach it to pest, and you can isolate it on some remote machine
dfff770ec56bc148…8264568f…2023-06-07 17:15:56 <asciilifeform> phf: 'just worx'(tm) in the sense that on ui end, oughta look as if you had $heathennetpeer as a directmsg session ?
0c21c786dfff770e…dfff770e…2023-06-07 17:16:39 asciilifeform pictures that this is entirely doable, but could be almost as gnarly as simply baking a multiprotocol chattron that actually speaks $heathennet protocol in addition to pest
753ae7390c21c786…0c21c786…2023-06-07 17:17:30 <asciilifeform> you'd potentially get uptime win, tho, similarly to 'znc'
6fd6b28f753ae739…393e01b6…2023-06-07 17:18:11 awt realizes short buffer no longer necessary, belatedly checks updated spec and sees it's gone
b88588006fd6b28f…753ae739…2023-06-07 17:18:15 asciilifeform considered similar application , 'slave mode pest'
60ec7147ae0d35db…ae0d35db…2023-06-07 17:22:08 <asciilifeform> phf: does 'telegram' support group chats? might be rather gnarly to interface
06ac8f4f9c203b37…9c203b37…2023-06-07 18:26:01 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-07#1026791 << brings back memories of Adium
04e17d3706ac8f4f…eefe6d15…2023-06-07 18:27:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-07 13:18:16 asciilifeform[6]: pictures that this is entirely doable, but could be almost as gnarly as simply baking a multiprotocol chattron that actually speaks $heathennet protocol in addition to pest
52423ced04e17d37…60ec7147…2023-06-07 18:26:40 asciilifeform recalls 'pidgin' (used well into 2010s, when ye olde 'aol messenger' finally kaput)
1bf0f767203dd566…00000000…2023-06-08 15:26:29 <phf> asciilifeform, how's the dystopia in prince george's county?
c724ca611bf0f767…1bf0f767…2023-06-08 15:27:08 <phf> we have discovered, experimentally, that smoke doesn't like to travel uphill. not even a whif up here in appalachia..
90233e72c724ca61…7eb6e902…2023-06-08 16:23:41 <asciilifeform> phf: here visible fog but oddly enuff no smell (and not even triggers the sensors in asciilifeform's filters)
1d7eedc976771d40…910b494c…2023-06-09 15:26:53 <unpx> I don't want to reinvent the wheel every time, but looking at what gnathtml can do, it seems dumb that there is no universal tool that does this without pluming it to something bigger like a git repository viewer
3eac972d1d7eedc9…1d7eedc9…2023-06-09 16:10:16 <unpx> Tied with v-tools, looks like there should be that, and other tools based on whatever languge one is using
e3152f383eac972d…3ef9e7e3…2023-06-09 16:25:05 <asciilifeform> unpx: gnathtml is a very crude perl kludge (comes w/ gnat, half-baked & unmaintained for who knows how many yrs)
d2b5e851e3152f38…2fae1c83…2023-06-09 16:25:05 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-05-16 asciilifeform: searching for, and, grr, not finding, a workable replacement for gnat's 'gnathtml.pl'. which is horrifically buggy, occasionally and for no detectable reason refuses to 'linkify' certain procedures...
6747438ed2b5e851…e3152f38…2023-06-09 16:26:33 <asciilifeform> and afaik there's nuffin in the way of 'universal' replacement for it ( aside from phf's old v browser , which iirc is a lisp hack which only runs on his box, no src posted, etc )
7b1031dd6747438e…6747438e…2023-06-09 16:27:43 <asciilifeform> ( and phf's is moar or less pure v browser, with afaik no special language support other than a few colourizations )
5b9ac31e7b1031dd…3eac972d…2023-06-09 16:34:50 <unpx> Yeah indeed. Reading ngnghm made me think about asciilifeform's os idea
aecfccac310f0aae…d2b5e851…2023-06-09 16:39:13 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-06-08 verisimilitude: Say, asciilifeform, what's the opinion on this: https://ngnghm.github.io
1ce62ffaaecfccac…25c1c9c8…2023-06-09 16:43:16 <unpx> So I guess we are all in a UNIX-like system because it is the most hackable we can have right now without becomeing a system programmer
2ff5d1e976d50681…310f0aae…2023-06-09 16:54:07 <asciilifeform> unpx: twist: 'become systems programmer' not helps.
c94db1ec2ff5d1e9…aecfccac…2023-06-09 16:54:08 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-07-06 asciilifeform: ok here goes, ftr : http://loper-os.org/pub/x86-64-toystore-os.tar.gz >> sha512==e292a6d4296bc3cc63d2bc78bb7def807f7c4e9f8e630b292afec00b08c1fc2f8eeff5d074560804828ee7aee8ab5e43e698436c203c990d994863882e51446a
0339fba1c94db1ec…76d50681…2023-06-09 20:17:19 <unpx> asciilifeform: that looks like a promise: to make it ``better'' one can just not make yet another pile of stuff and be as flat as possible (not saying it should be a bazar tho)
92179dee169762c1…c94db1ec…2023-06-09 20:34:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-22 mangol: has about half the code for a scheme client, not yet tested
27aa945a2fe44b45…d6a3b545…2023-06-09 21:21:43 <jonsykkel> worked a bit on my lisptron i puted wat i have here http://zzz.st/progz/#tunalisp
73969e3e27aa945a…27aa945a…2023-06-09 21:21:51 <jonsykkel> i cant reach peak coding performance with existing editors, they are al 100%trash
6b916afd73969e3e…73969e3e…2023-06-09 21:21:54 <jonsykkel> so im taking a brek to work on my next generation s-expr editor 3000, the only and final solution
fce89b70deaf4e7f…deaf4e7f…2023-06-09 22:36:22 <jonsykkel> still not exactly ram frendly without the gc colector
fe27a9f8fce89b70…2fe44b45…2023-06-10 13:07:10 <unpx> jonsykkel: I wonder how your editor will look like, was looking at the acme editor just for fun
771e7a27fe27a9f8…fce89b70…2023-06-10 13:40:41 <jonsykkel> emac/vim/acme etc might be ok for word2003 replacment but thats not wat u need for code
5fcfca19771e7a27…771e7a27…2023-06-10 13:40:44 <jonsykkel> they al make the same mistake of giving u a mspaint to edit 3d models
7d7ad1df5fcfca19…5fcfca19…2023-06-10 13:40:47 <jonsykkel> rather than a 3ds max where u can pull the vertexes and let computer do the rasterization
87fc38217d7ad1df…7d7ad1df…2023-06-10 13:40:50 <jonsykkel> in hypotetical ast editor u move expressions around and let computer do whitespace indenting formating etc
a9b305af02544042…02544042…2023-06-10 13:41:53 <jonsykkel> also, have to move hand to mouse at any point = not peak performance. i simply dont have time for that shit
a73f7393a9b305af…a9b305af…2023-06-10 13:41:56 <jonsykkel> tho that introduces one tricky problem to solve, often u want tree-aware movement (next/prev elt, 1lvl in/out etc), but other times u want to "point at screen" to go to a specific place
a636834a95cd81d1…fe27a9f8…2023-06-10 13:51:12 <unpx> I agree on the mouse and would prefer having the big rows like Space-cadet keyboard, what I liked of acme is that it is flat and not really specific. Instead you are looking for a specific editor that does exactly and maybe only that editing, and just editing sexp for what I understood.
212c18f2a636834a…a636834a…2023-06-10 13:54:54 <unpx> Maybe it's just me trying to rethinking everything at once so everything is blended together instead of pieces spread around
0110c3b9212c18f2…95cd81d1…2023-06-10 13:56:01 <jonsykkel> well, since existence of lisp makes it clear that any code (and a bunch of other stuf rly) is really a tre structure, u can use the same tool for any code/etc
a09b49c833afd25b…33afd25b…2023-06-10 13:56:31 <jonsykkel> if someone has a gun to ur head making u write js, just gota write the "renderer" for it, once. then u get the same exact interface
88185102a09b49c8…a09b49c8…2023-06-10 13:56:43 <jonsykkel> which is trivial, maybe unless ur doing c++ or smth
c08b378c88185102…88185102…2023-06-10 14:00:35 <jonsykkel> and the sexp editor needs som facilitys for editing stuf thats actualy text as well, inside strings and comments etc. so it can still be "1 piece", open .txt = same interface as editing a big string
9519c7b4276c8916…0dbbd8db…2023-06-10 16:38:54 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: very neat -- loox like you rediscovered xerox's structure editor
c785929d9519c7b4…92179dee…2023-06-10 16:38:54 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-06 asciilifeform: theoretically interesting -- there were concepts in interlisp that never appeared in mit cadr + successors (bolix etc) -- e.g. the 'structure editor'
5761ef76faa1cf2b…faa1cf2b…2023-06-10 16:40:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026843 << mous imho entirely good for moving sexprs around (if we had w/ what)
813160b95761ef76…04e17d37…2023-06-10 16:42:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 09:46:49 jonsykkel: imo no good way to do without mouse
8aec5ca9813160b9…5761ef76…2023-06-10 16:42:09 <asciilifeform> the 'text file paradigm' is utter shite for structure-editable lisp tho ( as noted in ancient thread, that asciilifeform for sumreason can't immed. find, by phf et al -- e.g. comments are spuriously bound to a line of txt, rather than properly 'attached' to a sexpr )
ceb808138aec5ca9…8aec5ca9…2023-06-10 16:43:11 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026837 << quite accurate
b7edf64eceb80813…813160b9…2023-06-10 16:44:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 09:45:27 jonsykkel: they al make the same mistake of giving u a mspaint to edit 3d models
2008fd53b7edf64e…54fa93ff…2023-06-10 16:41:19 <jonsykkel> indeed, exact conclusion i came to also, theres at least 3 diff use cases of comments: temporarily disabling code (seen in vid), attaching to a expression (rendered above or at end of line depending), and detached stand alone coment (license at top etc)
5344b7c02008fd53…2008fd53…2023-06-10 16:42:09 <jonsykkel> wat is needed is simply to store this aditional info along with code
74f362c75344b7c0…5344b7c0…2023-06-10 16:43:35 <jonsykkel> 1 simple way is when save file, "render" the s-expr that sbcl etc can eat, then put metadata in botom of file as a big comment
55a7d0ff74f362c7…ceb80813…2023-06-10 16:46:47 <asciilifeform> the storing is arguably 'easy part' ( e.g. in place of (launch-missiles london) , (comment (launch-missiles london)) ) -- the rendering is the tricky bit
31d263be55a7d0ff…55a7d0ff…2023-06-10 16:50:17 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026841 << largely on account of inept programmers, mouse ended up 'good only for clicking hyperlinks'. dun have to be that way tho
4950f55a31d263be…b7edf64e…2023-06-10 16:51:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 09:46:36 jonsykkel: also, have to move hand to mouse at any point = not peak performance. i simply dont have time for that shit
0ced179b4950f55a…74f362c7…2023-06-10 16:47:54 <jonsykkel> mous alright when ur hand is already on it, but most often mine, at least, isnt (no, its on keybord!!)
2569acb90ced179b…31d263be…2023-06-10 16:51:56 <asciilifeform> there's no getting away from the fact of people having only 2 hands
56e774802569acb9…0ced179b…2023-06-10 16:49:03 <jonsykkel> maybe if could hav eyebal tracker that works
37829e1956e77480…2569acb9…2023-06-10 16:52:13 asciilifeform views mouse as 'reading' gadget, not touches it when writing
ecbaf91937829e19…37829e19…2023-06-10 16:52:42 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: crapple reportedly is pushing eye trackers, imho quick path to discovering entirely new class of repetitive grunt injuries lol
c126726becbaf919…56e77480…2023-06-10 16:50:54 <jonsykkel> ye problem arises though when writing at line20 and need to jump to line57 col46
195f7c6dc126726b…ecbaf919…2023-06-10 16:54:28 <asciilifeform> thing is, on a properly-programmed comp, one shouldn't ever ~want~ to explicitly 'go to ln 57'
160385ee195f7c6d…195f7c6d…2023-06-10 16:54:48 <asciilifeform> but rather 'lemme see the end of this sexpr' or 'let's see where launch-missiles is defined/used' etc
266de228160385ee…160385ee…2023-06-10 16:55:46 asciilifeform only ever 'go to ln 57' as result of idiot compile-pray-debug cycle tooling, e.g. compilers which shit out ln #s in eggogs
3af1fd8c266de228…c126726b…2023-06-10 16:52:50 <jonsykkel> sure, but thats another use case, i have key bound to move between instances of symbol under cursor etc, very useful
9a13869e3af1fd8c…266de228…2023-06-10 16:56:20 <asciilifeform> ought be able to, somehow, do that, w/out losing context
ce130d669a13869e…3af1fd8c…2023-06-10 16:53:20 <jonsykkel> im not talking about explicitly typing in line numbers etc
2f3f4d00ce130d66…9a13869e…2023-06-10 16:56:32 <asciilifeform> ( y'know, the thing the concept of 'window' was ~originally~ for )
9fd69ca296e95e2a…ce130d66…2023-06-10 16:53:40 <jonsykkel> just this thing were somtimes u want to go to an exact place u are looking at with eyes
5b25371e6c5173e3…96e95e2a…2023-06-10 16:57:27 <asciilifeform> right, but almost always there's a moar intelligent way to describe the place than 'far away, right-there'
2aa77ca45b25371e…5b25371e…2023-06-10 16:57:50 <asciilifeform> i.e. one that'd req. fewer bits of input from hands
7d6eba052a2d5b9e…2a2d5b9e…2023-06-10 17:06:55 <jonsykkel> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027281 << hold some key on kb, prog starts highlighting thing it thinks ur looking at, release key when happy, cursor jump there
baf8d3727d6eba05…c785929d…2023-06-10 17:10:04 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 12:52:43 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: crapple reportedly is pushing eye trackers, imho quick path to discovering entirely new class of repetitive grunt injuries lol
5f1dbf2dbaf8d372…7d6eba05…2023-06-10 17:07:16 <jonsykkel> seems like RGI avoider delux, if could have tracker that works
b9dfb1595f1dbf2d…276c8916…2023-06-10 19:22:23 <unpx> jonsykkel: keyboard with trackpoint like thinkpads?
000954a6b9dfb159…5f1dbf2d…2023-06-10 19:22:12 <jonsykkel> imo those are horrificly slow in use, for anything else than "go 10px to the left"
503f4de4000954a6…000954a6…2023-06-10 19:22:50 <jonsykkel> cant precisely snipe somthing from a distance
fb68b9240acd8717…a97a485b…2023-06-11 23:36:36 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026886 << 3d structure editor when.
6dfd43fdfb68b924…4950f55a…2023-06-11 23:38:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 13:11:38 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027281 << hold some key on kb, prog starts highlighting thing it thinks ur looking at, release key when happy, cursor jump there
7ea799fe6dfd43fd…baf8d372…2023-06-11 23:36:46 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 12:52:43 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: crapple reportedly is pushing eye trackers, imho quick path to discovering entirely new class of repetitive grunt injuries lol
694c91d17ea799fe…fb68b924…2023-06-11 23:36:57 <signpost> I want to see the whole damned symbolic graph of a program sanely.
17061a30694c91d1…694c91d1…2023-06-11 23:37:35 <signpost> (somewhere other than my imagination after staring at text long enough)
f8612d5f17061a30…e245d356…2023-06-12 04:11:18 <awt> Currently working on multipart - running into issues breaking up ancient greek. I assume there would be problems with cyrillic as well.
a278782df8612d5f…f8612d5f…2023-06-12 04:14:02 <awt> can decode up to the last few charachters of the first string - then - exception.
97a81404a4279d4e…a4279d4e…2023-06-12 04:18:50 <awt> python has some utilities for wrapping text, but can only specify character count, not bytes.
bd2f631b97a81404…cd0a9f8d…2023-06-12 11:00:58 <jonsykkel> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-11#1027306 << in 3d giraffe or even 2d could posibly have multiple outbut values without binding
d529b828bd2f631b…7ea799fe…2023-06-12 11:04:08 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-11 19:36:44 signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026886 << 3d structure editor when.
5490c480d529b828…6dfd43fd…2023-06-12 11:05:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 13:11:38 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027281 << hold some key on kb, prog starts highlighting thing it thinks ur looking at, release key when happy, cursor jump there
49e637675490c480…d529b828…2023-06-12 11:04:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 12:52:43 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: crapple reportedly is pushing eye trackers, imho quick path to discovering entirely new class of repetitive grunt injuries lol
cf78a98c49e63767…bd2f631b…2023-06-12 11:01:19 <jonsykkel> me haking in 2025 http://zzz.st/up/75Ki1FeD/20230612_123900.jpg
35e0d6077eee72fc…49e63767…2023-06-12 13:54:26 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-06-10 mats: https://apnews.com/article/ted-kaczynski-unabomber-dies-federal-prison-95fdd4f398fbfe20aaadf5d53a91dc26
03494928b82cf943…7eee72fc…2023-06-12 16:44:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-11#1027306 << asciilifeform not esp. eager for '3d emacs' but whoknows, maybe with eyeball tracking it'd be less of a torture
facb11e003494928…35e0d607…2023-06-12 16:44:08 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-11 19:36:44 signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-10#1026886 << 3d structure editor when.
7e2b877dfacb11e0…facb11e0…2023-06-12 16:44:08 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2013-12-12 asciilifeform: i actually wore a 3d visor for work, some years ago, for a rather long time. you get used to it.
28b9b8b3facb11e0…5490c480…2023-06-12 16:45:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 13:11:38 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027281 << hold some key on kb, prog starts highlighting thing it thinks ur looking at, release key when happy, cursor jump there
4d7fb9ac28b9b8b3…7e2b877d…2023-06-12 16:44:17 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 12:52:43 asciilifeform: jonsykkel: crapple reportedly is pushing eye trackers, imho quick path to discovering entirely new class of repetitive grunt injuries lol
bb9de42e4d7fb9ac…03494928…2023-06-12 16:45:47 <asciilifeform> ( quickest way to understand why '3d glasses' painful -- go to electronics shop and try the existing ones, try read some text )
81024452bb9de42e…bb9de42e…2023-06-12 16:46:33 <asciilifeform> not even to mention 'wear brick on head' for that matter.
84e057f681024452…81024452…2023-06-12 16:46:54 asciilifeform had lightweight 'shutter' 3d for silicongraphics 'o2', was still ugh
18d5eac384e057f6…97a81404…2023-06-13 02:18:35 <awt> multithreading lols: DirectTextM messages arrive so quickly the filter is checked for the 2nd message before the first message's hash is stored.
c14afb990250d987…0250d987…2023-06-13 02:39:27 <awt> Might be better to handle text messages in a single thread. Multithreading is only really needed for filtering spam.
c16f3451eb847426…eb847426…2023-06-13 07:14:58 <jonsykkel> cant input text yet so bit of a work in progres
14586fd9c16f3451…00000000…2023-06-13 13:32:12 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027245 << acme can be programmed, somewhat awkwardly, over 9p protocol. i suspect if i were to do a lisp structured editor for unix, i'd go with acme as an interface instead of sdl
308c292c14586fd9…4d7fb9ac…2023-06-13 13:32:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 09:07:12 unpx[asciilifeform]: jonsykkel: I wonder how your editor will look like, was looking at the acme editor just for fun
38bc3d84308c292c…14586fd9…2023-06-13 13:55:08 <phf> without taking over the whole logic you can still do things like eval and jump-to-definition by hooking into mouse buttons
be7ab16938bc3d84…38bc3d84…2023-06-13 14:02:25 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027256 << spoken like a true scheme developer, but in common lisp the true tree structure is a level below user input, so you have to make provisions for that roundtrip from the very beginning
4cf1725abe7ab169…308c292c…2023-06-13 14:02:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 09:59:10 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: well, since existence of lisp makes it clear that any code (and a bunch of other stuf rly) is really a tre structure, u can use the same tool for any code/etc
1ebfbae74cf1725a…be7ab169…2023-06-13 14:07:12 <phf> e.g. ''123 is (QUOTE 123), '#'car is (FUNCTION CAR) unless you have print-pretty enabled in which case it'll render it back as '123 and #'123
9d0f77a71ebfbae7…1ebfbae7…2023-06-13 14:09:14 <phf> but all of that goes out of the window with creative readers, like ;; foo gets read and ignored. or for example i have a prefix reader in pest, that's triggered by ◇, so e.g. ◇2+2◇ gives me 4. for some kind of mathematical code this produces better result than sexps, and ther [I>)uCJQF 5c@:
f91cb9789d0f77a7…9d0f77a7…2023-06-13 14:09:14 <phf> e's a reason why both interlisp and zeta lisp had that as a mode. [I>)uCJQF 5c@:
d2cd6ad3f91cb978…f91cb978…2023-06-13 14:11:14 <phf> here's an example of a complete function using this mode http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-08#1022837
b8afc464d2cd6ad3…4cf1725a…2023-06-13 14:11:15 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-08 21:07:32 phf: this myers implementation with parts done using infix notation is so ugly, i love it http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QPOZ
94f0fb99b8afc464…d2cd6ad3…2023-06-13 14:18:52 <phf> emacs lets you assign character class to arbitrary character, and put it into some predefined categories, e.g. (modify-syntax-entry ?◇ "|" lisp-mode-syntax-table) marks ◇ as an equivalent to " that is beginning/end of string marker
67dde30e94f0fb99…94f0fb99…2023-06-13 14:20:52 <phf> but then you have the whole ugly special reader machinery on #\#, e.g. #x123 or #p"/foo/bar", which you end up having to special case, which is something that you see with e.g. paredit, since it was written by a schemer, it doesn't support proper handling of #p out of the box, it t Q 'c2TӫDఛ \Hw
6e7eca7967dde30e…67dde30e…2023-06-13 14:20:52 <phf> reats it as a separate symbol before a string Q 'c2TӫDఛ \Hw
846b76f36e7eca79…6e7eca79…2023-06-13 14:24:01 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-09#1027232 << apologies, i'm consistently away from a machine with key, have been traveling (mostly locally, stayed in Annapolis for a bit for boats, stayed down in garret county for a bit for horses)
5954f7ac846b76f3…b8afc464…2023-06-13 14:24:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-09 12:50:43 unpx[asciilifeform]: phf http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wSS8
f6c3e1765954f7ac…846b76f3…2023-06-13 14:41:21 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027292 << raskin's "leaping" idea an various lesser implementations, like most common one is incremental search
046bef6ff6c3e176…5954f7ac…2023-06-13 14:41:22 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-10 12:56:56 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: that is "far away" from cursor
8e7725b9046bef6f…f6c3e176…2023-06-13 14:43:55 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-11#1027309 << i suspect llm view of program's structure is nothing like what a programmer sees in his mind, but that symbolic graph lives "live" in the intellij idea at all times. just needs a sane visualizer(c)
bf8899ad8e7725b9…046bef6f…2023-06-13 14:43:55 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-11 19:37:04 signpost[asciilifeform]: I want to see the whole damned symbolic graph of a program sanely.
4b8fa8f7bf8899ad…8e7725b9…2023-06-13 14:45:03 <phf> so it's like "each day we're further away from god" type thing. nobody wants to work on boring hard problems
cc7dda214b8fa8f7…4b8fa8f7…2023-06-13 14:51:06 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-12#1027311 << you need to cut your bytes by code units, rather than code points or bytes. so you have a character #\CYRILLIC_SMALL_LETTER_A, or whatever. it's code point is 1072, but it's code unit in utf-8 is a byte sequence [208, 176]
bed17f4dcc7dda21…bf8899ad…2023-06-13 14:51:07 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-12 00:11:20 awt[asciilifeform]: Currently working on multipart - running into issues breaking up ancient greek. I assume there would be problems with cyrillic as well.
f72dd7cfbed17f4d…cc7dda21…2023-06-13 14:53:00 <phf> so if you measure length by code points, you're going to get 1 less than the count of bytes, potentially getting a truncation when sending string. and if you measure by bytes, you potentially end up sending 208 in one message, and 176 in the other message, which results in decoding error
ad23ae0ef72dd7cf…f72dd7cf…2023-06-13 14:54:51 <phf> now when all the clients support proper multipart messages this is no longer a problem, because you reconstruct the final string by concatenating all bytes and then decoding the whole thing. but interim solution is to make sure you never cut in the middle of code unit (the two byte
1G+X$$"IegƖʿ=M+!
4232e508ad23ae0e…ad23ae0e…2023-06-13 14:54:51 <phf> s above) and that you're counting your total number of bytes correctly
1G+X$$"IegƖʿ=M+!
ed393c0f4232e508…4232e508…2023-06-13 14:58:37 <phf> the way i look at this algo is i have a string of unicode characters, and i have n byte arrays, i collect unicode characters from the string keeping track of their byte sizes, and split, when the characters's byte representations no longer fit into the array
02e29fa4ed393c0f…ed393c0f…2023-06-13 15:02:06 <phf> http://okturing.com/src/16102/body is the algo that i use in lisp
a1d2ea9a02e29fa4…02e29fa4…2023-06-13 15:02:28 <phf> which gives you (split-string-max-octet-size "おはよう日本helloпривет" 6) ("おは" "よう" "日本" "hello" "при" "вет")
8b6477aba1d2ea9a…a1d2ea9a…2023-06-13 15:02:37 <phf> (split-string-max-octet-size "おはよう日本helloпривет" 5) ("お" "は" "よ" "う" "日" "本he" "lloп" "ри" "ве" "т")
497f036a8b6477ab…8b6477ab…2023-06-13 15:03:17 <phf> why this is correct is an exercise in understanding this whole god awful problem
87e65961497f036a…497f036a…2023-06-13 15:12:15 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-12#1027319 << state of the art algorithmic eye tracking, ultra high resolution retinal projection, nvidia rtx 5xxx to render highly realistic environment: you walk past a waterfall, through myst at a beautiful rendition of japanese pagoda e@іz} ` 2:
7e44192487e65961…87e65961…2023-06-13 15:12:15 <phf> , walk through multiple beautiful rooms with reproductions of old arts and artifacts, get to the hacking room, open a virtual laptop, to stare at 80x25 terminal screen for the next 8 hours e@іz} ` 2:
848b2f4c7e441924…bed17f4d…2023-06-13 15:12:15 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-12 07:04:28 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: me haking in 2025 http://zzz.st/up/75Ki1FeD/20230612_123900.jpg
aeb0547c848b2f4c…c16f3451…2023-06-13 15:32:18 <jonsykkel> the illusion is indeed broken by mutilating reader
436697cdaeb0547c…aeb0547c…2023-06-13 15:32:42 <jonsykkel> but im not gona let that stop me from having a sensible editor that works without modification in 99.7% of my own use cases
5bc330b9436697cd…436697cd…2023-06-13 15:33:00 <jonsykkel> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-13#1027346 << the absolute horor
18bb51465bc330b9…848b2f4c…2023-06-13 15:36:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 10:11:14 phf: here's an example of a complete function using this mode http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-02-08#1022837
0dc62dcd18bb5146…5bc330b9…2023-06-13 15:33:30 <jonsykkel> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-13#1027353 << belongs in the toolbox 2 be sure, but isnt optimal in cases where seach term is common. i wana be able to leap to specific "(" on my scren
95d0c3d60dc62dcd…18bb5146…2023-06-13 15:36:39 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 10:41:22 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-10#1027292 << raskin's "leaping" idea an various lesser implementations, like most common one is incremental search
88c8ba2595d0c3d6…0dc62dcd…2023-06-13 15:33:45 <jonsykkel> posibly vimperator like interface is hard to beat "bits inputed from hand" wise
7f3ed7d888c8ba25…88c8ba25…2023-06-13 15:35:44 <jonsykkel> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-13#1027370 << exactly
2aea76977f3ed7d8…95d0c3d6…2023-06-13 15:38:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 11:12:15 phf: , walk through multiple beautiful rooms with reproductions of old arts and artifacts, get to the hacking room, open a virtual laptop, to stare at 80x25 terminal screen for the next 8 hours
ce6d55842aea7697…7e441924…2023-06-13 15:50:40 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-13#1027372 << no question about that, but one ought to still be aware of how much one is going full chuck moore http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-30#1025758
76a8e097ce6d5584…7f3ed7d8…2023-06-13 15:49:31 <jonsykkel> 80% full chuck moore i think is a good balance
f1aec024ce6d5584…2aea7697…2023-06-13 15:50:41 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 11:35:51 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: but im not gona let that stop me from having a sensible editor that works without modification in 99.7% of my own use cases
00bbca9076a8e097…ce6d5584…2023-06-13 15:53:54 <phf> yeah like a concious awareness of where on the chuck moore scale one is :>
74b370eff1aec024…f1aec024…2023-06-13 15:50:41 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 09:48:27 phf: apropos of nothing i'd like to document the phrase "going full chuck moore", for the logs. it means building your own technology stack, and retreating into it from the outside, inferior world. can be applied to e.g. "owning" some retro stack also.
b3b5dde700bbca90…76a8e097…2023-06-13 15:52:12 <jonsykkel> warning lamps at top of monitor would be best
b2d807e287f2a7e6…40d7c717…2023-06-13 16:57:46 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026957 << ty. Attempted this algo but python is doing something weird. Sometimes when I unpack the bytes I get a str, others, bytes. Handled this and encoded the messages for the client in base64. Tried decoding with a random base64 decoding site and each piece decoded successfull
76bdf2e4b2d807e2…b2d807e2…2023-06-13 16:57:46 <awt> y into ancient greek. Meanwhile if I try decoding the body in python (from bytes when
552dea7ab2d807e2…28b9b8b3…2023-06-13 16:59:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 11:04:55 phf[4]: why this is correct is an exercise in understanding this whole god awful problem
e6276bc9552dea7a…76bdf2e4…2023-06-13 16:57:48 <awt> bytes), I still get the error I originally reported.
9b6adb6ae6276bc9…e6276bc9…2023-06-13 17:04:26 <awt> python version: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=evrh
77eb723f9b6adb6a…9b6adb6a…2023-06-13 17:24:23 <awt> For the record, this is the error I'm seeing, along with a correct decoding of the same value: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=S9YT
b380cce477eb723f…77eb723f…2023-06-13 17:45:10 <awt> Ah, found the problem. I was breaking up the messages into 324 bytes (BroadcastText payload size) instead of 288 (BroadcastTextM payload size).
34ac1542b380cce4…b380cce4…2023-06-13 19:27:38 <awt> Set an icon for the desktop client: https://imgur.com/a/XUdKW6Z. Entomologist friendly.
66f3813534ac1542…34ac1542…2023-06-13 21:43:31 <awt> The only way I seem to be able to prevent a race condition when handling incoming multipart messages is to space out their transmission a bit. Even moving the processing of text messages on to a single thread didn't help.
87f6715566f38135…66f38135…2023-06-13 21:43:59 <awt> This is of course in a test environment where all stations are running on the same host.
ff6608f387f67155…b9dfb159…2023-06-14 13:45:45 <unpx> Reading this NSA doc, my eye instantly saw the "radio games" and reading that reminds me of Pest's camouflage
ca368069ff6608f3…84e057f6…2023-06-14 15:14:05 <asciilifeform> unpx: the historic term is 'funkspiel'. but has very little to do with pest or protocols in particular ( typically refers to disinfo sent through a captive or turncoat operative )
c5def88aca368069…ca368069…2023-06-14 17:41:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026941 << bought megayacht yet ??
337ba47dc5def88a…552dea7a…2023-06-14 17:43:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 10:25:38 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-09#1027232 << apologies, i'm consistently away from a machine with key, have been traveling (mostly locally, stayed in Annapolis for a bit for boats, stayed down in garret county for a bit for horses)
26b915af337ba47d…74b370ef…2023-06-14 17:41:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-09 12:50:43 unpx[asciilifeform]: phf http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wSS8
2c1edb9826b915af…c5def88a…2023-06-14 17:43:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026946 << asciilifeform did (most folx prolly would describe closed-form rsa as 'boring hard') but these days mostly 'boring+hard+paying'
1da878502c1edb98…337ba47d…2023-06-14 17:45:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 10:46:59 phf[jonsykkel]: so it's like "each day we're further away from god" type thing. nobody wants to work on boring hard problems
324efb6c1da87850…2c1edb98…2023-06-14 17:44:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026959 << virtual john carmack trinitron! ( asciilifeform would buy, lol )
06471f3b324efb6c…1da87850…2023-06-14 17:46:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 11:13:55 phf[awt|deedbot]: , walk through multiple beautiful rooms with reproductions of old arts and artifacts, get to the hacking room, open a virtual laptop, to stare at 80x25 terminal screen for the next 8 hours
6a8268ed06471f3b…324efb6c…2023-06-14 17:45:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026986 << how does the race happen ?
4dee9a036a8268ed…06471f3b…2023-06-14 17:47:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 17:45:23 awt: The only way I seem to be able to prevent a race condition when handling incoming multipart messages is to space out their transmission a bit. Even moving the processing of text messages on to a single thread didn't help.
427261034dee9a03…87f67155…2023-06-14 17:55:59 <awt> asciilifeform: presumably second pest message processing thread checks order before the first has time to record its message hash in the filter. .1 sec spacing between multiparts prevents it.
ffdb77cc42726103…6a8268ed…2023-06-14 17:59:53 <asciilifeform> awt: hmm, why does it need to 'check order' at all ?
dc4fe804b8e58b13…42726103…2023-06-14 18:00:31 <awt> asciilifeform: to determine whether or not to send a getdata.
dd973644dc4fe804…b8e58b13…2023-06-14 18:01:17 <asciilifeform> awt: getdata oughta be sent if the antecedent hasn't arrived for $interval
806842aaa183454f…6eaf6efa…2023-06-14 18:03:24 <asciilifeform> awt: prolly oughta revise A.2.2 'GetDataWait' & related text, re subj
c91d3732806842aa…806842aa…2023-06-14 18:04:03 asciilifeform suspects that some large % of getdata reqs are unnecessary (i.e. the desired msg is already in flight)
0d08148ec91d3732…c91d3732…2023-06-14 18:08:16 <asciilifeform> awt: re multipart msgs in particular, tho, a guiistic pestron shouldn't need to fully reassemble the thing before displaying
071947060d08148e…0d08148e…2023-06-14 18:08:31 <asciilifeform> oughta be able to show the parts as they arrive, with ellipsis where missing
21cc25d407194706…07194706…2023-06-14 20:52:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-14#1027007 << tentatively -- only send getdata for a msg that's been missing for GetDataWait msec. (after which, give it GetDataWait msec to arrive, as described in current pre-draft, etc)
2e4b5cb821cc25d4…4dee9a03…2023-06-14 20:54:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-14 14:05:03 asciilifeform[4]: awt: prolly oughta revise A.2.2 'GetDataWait' & related text, re subj
081896692e4b5cb8…21cc25d4…2023-06-14 20:54:15 <asciilifeform> ( easiest way to bake this is prolly to queue'em up, similarly to what was shown here
60db6d4d08189669…2e4b5cb8…2023-06-14 20:55:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-12-25 12:39:07 asciilifeform[5]: jonsykkel et al : runnable example of asciilifeform's filter . and somewhat braindead demo coad for same.
f35cbf0a60db6d4d…fbe80da5…2023-06-14 20:55:11 <asciilifeform> ^ with getdata's instead of hashes, obv, and advance 'tick' erry GetDataWait msec, etc
0fce23c2f35cbf0a…a183454f…2023-06-14 22:12:51 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-14#1027009 << indeed - they are passed through currently regardless of whether there's been a getdata response.
9df849a30fce23c2…60db6d4d…2023-06-14 22:14:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-14 14:09:54 asciilifeform[6]: awt: re multipart msgs in particular, tho, a guiistic pestron shouldn't need to fully reassemble the thing before displaying
2d7f0fc89df849a3…0fce23c2…2023-06-14 22:14:09 <awt> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-14#1027016 << yes - should be able to just take out the inline getdata send - already implemented GetDataWait in the station under development.
18b45da32d7f0fc8…9df849a3…2023-06-14 22:15:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-14 16:56:49 asciilifeform[4]: ^ with getdata's instead of hashes, obv, and advance 'tick' erry GetDataWait msec, etc
3ac003cb18b45da3…00000000…2023-06-14 22:53:41 <phf> getdatas should probably happen as a separate pass on a timer, because it's ultimately for closing holes, rather than actively managing the connection
8a46655c3ac003cb…3ac003cb…2023-06-14 22:59:24 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-14#1027400 << no i'm poor. it was just a getaway
f346b1ef8a46655c…26b915af…2023-06-14 22:59:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-14 13:41:30 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-13#1026941 << bought megayacht yet ??
07ed91008a46655c…f35cbf0a…2023-06-14 22:59:28 <asciilifeform> phf: aha. ( asciilifeform in pre-draft spec did say 'immediately' but on reflection this is foolish )
0ef7320cf346b1ef…18b45da3…2023-06-14 23:02:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-13 10:25:38 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-09#1027232 << apologies, i'm consistently away from a machine with key, have been traveling (mostly locally, stayed in Annapolis for a bit for boats, stayed down in garret county for a bit for horses)
616b77f007ed9100…07ed9100…2023-06-14 23:00:48 <asciilifeform> phf: a. ( asciilifeform was there coupla yrs ago, for corporate nonsense, but the latter was held on a boat, following which the mega-wankthrd w/ mp re boats lol )
1dfeca5a0ef7320c…f346b1ef…2023-06-14 23:00:57 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-09 12:50:43 unpx[asciilifeform]: phf http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wSS8
93fd66e61dfeca5a…616b77f0…2023-06-14 23:03:01 asciilifeform did recently scratch head over the 'where to burn dough before it inflates away' and looked into boatism, was astonished to see that prices not kept up w/ inflatola. but then thought 'when the fuck will go on that boat, it'll sink in the dock like sov subs in '90s', lol
f986393593fd66e6…8a46655c…2023-06-14 23:04:29 <phf> well, you can take classes there, and there are some dinghy rentals that you can't get much places else. like you can get a dinghy with a gunter rig
df49259af9863935…93fd66e6…2023-06-14 23:04:51 <asciilifeform> aha, saw sailboat rentals/tutorings advertised there
1fb4faaadf49259a…f9863935…2023-06-14 23:05:29 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-14#1027438 << bitcoin!!1
3b35a1cf1fb4faaa…1dfeca5a…2023-06-14 23:05:30 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-14 19:03:01 asciilifeform: did recently scratch head over the 'where to burn dough before it inflates away' and looked into boatism, was astonished to see that prices not kept up w/ inflatola. but then thought 'when the fuck will go on that boat, it'll sink in the dock like sov subs in '90s', lol
cf3047262fcc3a5f…1fb4faaa…2023-06-14 23:07:40 <phf> i'm unconvinced that a boat purchase is a good idea for similar reasons. i'm sort of old enough to realize that i'm never going to have that Purple Noon lifestyle,
b32a22e4cf304726…2fcc3a5f…2023-06-14 23:07:59 <asciilifeform> it could be good idea, for folx w/ time to actually sail on the boat
d4334b8ab32a22e4…b32a22e4…2023-06-14 23:08:21 <asciilifeform> in the exact same way as phf's horse etc
16932d0ac5503b1d…c5503b1d…2023-06-14 23:09:34 <phf> well, from that perspective buying a sail boat is kind of like buying a well trained horse with a pedigree before you even know you want to ride
266e31ce3ed06f9b…3ed06f9b…2023-06-14 23:10:50 <asciilifeform> ( they're toys for aristocrats, i.e. folx with time. )
0fd6c09b266e31ce…16932d0a…2023-06-14 23:10:51 <phf> there's probably some people who can afford that sort of careless splurge but i'm not one of them. my horses are squirely in the 10k range, which got me thinking that if i really want to sail, as a summer recreation, i might as well buy a dinghy, with a proper sailing rig
95e250d80fd6c09b…0fd6c09b…2023-06-14 23:12:13 <phf> as opposed to buying aspirational, for when i take my ship to mediteranian sea. what i really want is something i can throw on the roof of the car, and then drop onto any lake by myself, rig it up, and spend 2-3 hours enjoying it. anything bigger will be an overkill
2d33542e95e250d8…266e31ce…2023-06-14 23:12:16 asciilifeform in fact not knew even approx what horse costs, is surprised that only 10k (tho imagine you gotta pay somebody to warehouse it)
7726c5ae2d33542e…95e250d8…2023-06-14 23:14:01 <phf> horse cost is pedigree, confirmation and training. and then of course you have the auction prices, which is when a 10k horse gets sold for 30k because two people fell in love with it
f6b57caf7726c5ae…7726c5ae…2023-06-14 23:15:16 <phf> but you can get a horse with a pedigree and decent confirmation for peanuts, 3-4k, 1-2k for basic training, etc.
a2f7ba99f6b57caf…2d33542e…2023-06-14 23:15:43 asciilifeform ran outta 'toys' to buy that can be installed indoors / on site. but most errything else reqs 'copious free time' & typically also time to get to/from
9f0377a4a2f7ba99…f6b57caf…2023-06-14 23:16:44 <phf> it doesn't have to be an expensive hobby. prices start going up and steep when it's a pedigree that you want (e.g. racing horse and you want it to race), and particular confirmation that you need (e.g. racing horse gotta be built like one), and training (which is astronomical for a racing horse)
9d70f0139f0377a4…a2f7ba99…2023-06-14 23:17:27 <asciilifeform> right, the realization was that it aint the race horse / plane / boat / etc. that costs, but the time away from console
bc59b826107967f7…107967f7…2023-06-14 23:18:17 <phf> again, you can get a 15 foot dinghy with some non-trivial sail rig, for ~10k or so. now go enjoy
ab0b1b7abc59b826…9d70f013…2023-06-14 23:18:34 <asciilifeform> ( e.g. asciilifeform last yr went to beach, for 1st time in some yrs, it 'cost' considerably moar than the auction horse in above example , sadly )
a605aa5fab0b1b7a…bc59b826…2023-06-14 23:19:14 <phf> you spent 30k to go to the beach? man, hanging out with mp gave you some expensive tastes
e1e038c639223277…2503b0cb…2023-06-14 23:20:25 <phf> well, i'm not psychopathic or possibly driven enough to think of it in those terms
64388e7de1e038c6…39223277…2023-06-14 23:21:13 asciilifeform imagines that this is also how traditional prostitution worx -- 'i'ma do this for a while' 'temporarily'
98a5b3f764388e7d…64388e7d…2023-06-14 23:21:30 <asciilifeform> then 'temporarily' turns into yr, then 2, etc
af3eef1b98a5b3f7…e1e038c6…2023-06-14 23:22:31 <phf> i guess question is what's the end goal. i can see why mp "worked", which he presumably did at some point, because clear payoff. can also see why ceo of nvidia works. not so much your average run of the mill corpo
6c1e4d74af3eef1b…af3eef1b…2023-06-14 23:24:29 <phf> my income in $$$ grew just as its buying power plummeted, i sort of outpaced this plummet, but just barely to make a few steps forward overall. might as well ride horses/sail dinghys
eb94384b6c1e4d74…98a5b3f7…2023-06-14 23:25:02 asciilifeform not has the kinda gig where a realistic 'end goal' appears. doing it largely to pile up moar emergency battery for the inevitable 'may take 6mo-yr to find new one when this one kaput'
f2d2c357eb94384b…6c1e4d74…2023-06-14 23:25:55 <phf> work to so that one can look presentable in a coffin :p
2bdc9b440e97f857…31253d31…2023-06-16 00:29:59 <awt> asciilifeform: just checking off message types as they're completed in the new station.
86e697d98c1c4657…cd4d6f84…2023-06-16 00:31:42 asciilifeform not 100% certain 'inv' even needed at all
0438c5db86e697d9…8c1c4657…2023-06-16 15:26:40 <awt> Is "port hammering" a way for two stations each behind a firewall to connect?
59eeb5bd0438c5db…86e697d9…2023-06-16 15:31:58 <asciilifeform> awt: if both behind nat, will take considerably longer than if only 1. but yes
447c920859eeb5bd…0438c5db…2023-06-16 15:32:04 <awt> Or is it possibly needed in the case where one station is not behind a NAT (not sure what the direct term for this is)
d56931b2365857fe…3b35a1cf…2023-06-16 15:32:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-19 18:23:29 asciilifeform: awt, phf, jonsykkel , et al: proposed 'hammer algo' :
c98d62ead56931b2…365857fe…2023-06-16 15:32:57 <asciilifeform> ( and described in the pre-draft in 'addrcast' sect. )
eb5c32bbc98d62ea…447c9208…2023-06-16 15:35:33 awt just now noticing the address cast packet format has been updated
338a8b99eb5c32bb…c98d62ea…2023-06-16 15:35:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-16#1027075 << ~symmetric~ nat, that is.
2fb1496b338a8b99…0ef7320c…2023-06-16 15:37:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-16 11:33:36 asciilifeform[4]: awt: if both behind nat, will take considerably longer than if only 1. but yes
9e416f572fb1496b…338a8b99…2023-06-16 15:36:32 <asciilifeform> awt: it's compat. with the old format (but 'flag' can nao be 1, see 5.4.10.5 )
1fdf57dc9e416f57…9e416f57…2023-06-16 15:39:34 <asciilifeform> awt: but yes, hammer is for the situation where both sides know the other to be live (i.e. recently received broadcasts from one anuther) but each is trapped behind a nat
a983aeaf1fdf57dc…1fdf57dc…2023-06-16 15:40:33 <asciilifeform> addrcast, in such a case, supplies a usable ip but not a usable port
f571af4ca983aeaf…a983aeaf…2023-06-16 15:41:09 <asciilifeform> to connect, they must play 'port roulette' until they simultaneously win.
dd9e7712f571af4c…eb5c32bb…2023-06-16 15:43:53 <awt> Ok. It seems the dream of lappy to lappy from cafe may soon be realized.
eb5ca467dd9e7712…dd9e7712…2023-06-16 15:50:56 <awt> asciilifeform: How can a station determine automatically whether or not to set FLAG to 1, or is it a manual configuration?
697f2af6eb5ca467…f571af4c…2023-06-16 16:41:44 <asciilifeform> awt: see 5.4.10.5 : flag=1 if station believes it is behind a nat
27c275910a38af69…0a38af69…2023-06-16 18:04:50 <asciilifeform> apropos of nuffin, meanwhile, in bolix lulz.
d0c1b2f527c27591…27c27591…2023-06-16 18:05:25 <asciilifeform> 'bolixcoin' has outperformed btc exchrate for last coupla yrs, lol
108f0242d0c1b2f5…d0c1b2f5…2023-06-16 18:08:32 <asciilifeform> pretty strange to see 'ivory' console w/ 36xx keyboard, also. the proper ones evidently finally ran out, snapped up by stamp collectors
e1981c6819be611b…69871ed4…2023-06-17 14:21:19 <jonsykkel> nah, havent done work on pestron at al for 1year+
96aa3751e1981c68…e1981c68…2023-06-17 14:21:24 <jonsykkel> was planing on rewriting it first but still planning how exactly to do that
34ba373288176f2e…88176f2e…2023-06-18 01:50:59 <awt> Re: upstack, removing inline GetData requests does indeed fix the race condition with multipart messages I mentioned earlier.
047778c534ba3732…34ba3732…2023-06-18 01:54:25 <awt> fwiw, new station also fixes the issue with restarting a station while AddressCast messages are in flight.
6d9c3059047778c5…047778c5…2023-06-18 01:55:04 <awt> And has a rate limit in case your address changes multiple times/sec.
85bc58c38f3e7361…328de084…2023-06-19 14:33:55 <awt> New station has a 'page' command, accessible via the json api, which should make it pretty straight forward to stand up a www log reader that reads directly from the pest log.
f4eb623f85bc58c3…85bc58c3…2023-06-19 14:36:43 <awt> I suppose a 'search' command will also be necessary.
f51d7239187f3851…187f3851…2023-06-19 15:13:20 <asciilifeform> ( 'logger that actually is a pest station' imho is a++. potentially ticklish in re exploitable bugs tho )
f15c88ca019412eb…019412eb…2023-06-19 15:52:31 <awt> Due to pest station having known IP since potentially same as the www?
c2989c68f15c88ca…f15c88ca…2023-06-19 16:16:28 <awt> Unrelatedly was thinking desktop pest clients should allow for managing multiple pestnets.
ceeb4d0bc2989c68…c2989c68…2023-06-19 16:45:31 <awt> Could easily have a separate pestnets such as "alt.binaries.warez" in addition to the current ex-republic focused pestnet.
ce861ebeceeb4d0b…f51d7239…2023-06-19 16:52:51 <asciilifeform> awt: not about ip ( no reason you couldn't host a log on wholly separate ip, in fact asciilifeform directly suggests in old spec 'dun host anyffin on same ip as a pest station') but rather about importance of hygiene where one does have e.g. http server directly inside a station
18df75e6ce861ebe…ce861ebe…2023-06-19 16:54:06 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. hosting a log is a departure from the dictum where 'the only machines a pest station converses with are peers' )
21137b7a18df75e6…ceeb4d0b…2023-06-19 16:55:51 <awt> asciilifeform: In this case, http server would connect to the station via a tcp interface, so technically not inside. Would indeed have to take care not to allow the www to send anything other than read ops.
817b3c5321137b7a…18df75e6…2023-06-19 16:55:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-19#1027118 << no reason why not ( iirc discussed prev. as well )
6fd53b54817b3c53…2fb1496b…2023-06-19 16:57:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-19 12:18:05 awt: Unrelatedly was thinking desktop pest clients should allow for managing multiple pestnets.
e7a6062d6fd53b54…817b3c53…2023-06-19 17:00:10 <asciilifeform> awt: largely theoretical concern ( a log station hasn't any seekritz other than its peer keys ) but e.g. wouldn't want to accidentally enable the tcp log on a civilian station, etc
01e6b4e9658f1d04…658f1d04…2023-06-20 03:34:57 <awt> Noticing while testing new station that blatta is *possibly* somehow not responding to all GetData requests. Retries often succeed.
c3a12f78e1969e01…e1969e01…2023-06-20 05:27:43 <awt> I'm finding I have much better luck if I throttle the GetData requests.
1a64983dc4180183…25f1f2d9…2023-06-20 14:57:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-19#1027134 << not afaik ( in asciilifeform's old udp experiments, never saw any such thing )
fe2322e21a64983d…6fd53b54…2023-06-20 14:58:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-19 23:37:26 awt: dunno if that's even possible
8ed80098fe2322e2…1a64983d…2023-06-20 14:58:19 asciilifeform wonders if has to do with python's faux multithreading, where actually blocks ( and is udp receiver even in separate thread ? )
5e9902f7d43b4478…f5bbeb78…2023-06-20 17:16:00 <awt> Pondering how to handle multipart messages currently marked as BroadcastText.
23c12e9f5e9902f7…3df377a6…2023-06-20 17:15:55 <signpost> blackrock getting in before the next halving, and just as the SEC takes action against existing exchanges, is pretty entertaining.
ad434cf723c12e9f…23c12e9f…2023-06-20 17:16:53 <signpost> fuckers are going to hoover up the real thing behind the scenes as they suppress paperbtc just like they all do with gold.
6cb5600fad434cf7…ad434cf7…2023-06-20 17:17:19 <signpost> I am tbh inclined to sell everything during the next bull run.
504fbd3d6cb5600f…5e9902f7…2023-06-20 17:17:32 <awt> It has been entertaining. "It's an etf!" "It's an etf!" "Etfs are bad!" "Etfs are good!"
33ab0582166939ee…6cb5600f…2023-06-20 17:17:59 <signpost> can "buy when there's blood in the streets" onside with the vampires.
fb38d74d33ab0582…8ed80098…2023-06-20 17:42:16 <asciilifeform> signpost: when to 'sell errything!!1' is 'matter b/w you and odin' obv
b094e2ecfb38d74d…fb38d74d…2023-06-20 17:42:55 asciilifeform not does 'buy cheap, sell dear' b/c imho pointless to do with taxablecoin
162058f7b094e2ec…b094e2ec…2023-06-20 17:43:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-20#1027141 << this'd 100% explain it, then -- thing's busy when it oughta be eating a packet
f5621188162058f7…fe2322e2…2023-06-20 17:45:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-20 12:17:29 awt: asciilifeform: blatta is singlethreaded
adfa9ed9f5621188…162058f7…2023-06-20 17:47:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-20#1027146 << irresistible to point out that they can't get yours unless you sell it to'em, lol
5948989fadfa9ed9…f5621188…2023-06-20 17:49:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-20 13:18:36 signpost: fuckers are going to hoover up the real thing behind the scenes as they suppress paperbtc just like they all do with gold.
0c83319e5948989f…adfa9ed9…2023-06-20 17:48:34 <asciilifeform> ( apropos, asciilifeform's algo for 'when sell' )
da773c830c83319e…d56931b2…2023-06-20 17:48:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: spend no coin where...
43372215da773c83…33ab0582…2023-06-20 17:49:58 <signpost> long term capital gains is 20%, so if this next one swings the same way all the other halvings have, plenty of room to repurchase more coin with the proceeds.
b3855ea543372215…43372215…2023-06-20 17:50:31 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-07#1025819 << might as well put my own ass on the line when making claims like this.
92262b46b3855ea5…5948989f…2023-06-20 17:52:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-07 17:07:18 signpost: here's something to ponder. BTC price floor for the past 4 years has been predictable from difficulty alone. https://www.tradingview.com/x/IaNPNGCr/
966db90c92262b46…0c83319e…2023-06-20 17:51:20 <asciilifeform> signpost: wouldn't one want to load up , per this theory, prior to halving, rather than sell off ?
6bc91bb09b1109fc…9b1109fc…2023-06-20 17:52:56 <asciilifeform> unless of course 'this is last turn of screw' and blackrock et al are counting on folx to follow this algo, and intend to, as signpost suggested, vacuum then close the papercoin idiocy & stop the waterfall
a0946d4f6bc91bb0…da23e959…2023-06-20 17:53:14 <signpost> right, it requires there remain on-ramps after.
8a4b7524a0946d4f…6bc91bb0…2023-06-20 17:53:34 <asciilifeform> so logically one oughta believe in theory 1 xor theory 2
3e03967a8a4b7524…a0946d4f…2023-06-20 17:54:05 <signpost> if the regulatory environment keeps getting worse I'll just grab firmly to my balls and forget how to access my coin for a decade.
cb6259283e03967a…8a4b7524…2023-06-20 17:54:37 asciilifeform operates strictly in 'fughet you have it' mode
82dd49d2fd2c25bd…cb625928…2023-06-20 17:55:15 <asciilifeform> ( if had enuff to break orbit, would rethink. but not has )
69405aec82dd49d2…fd2c25bd…2023-06-20 17:56:05 signpost napkin math says about 4x BTC can be had if the halving's traded well
2723162069405aec…82dd49d2…2023-06-20 17:56:29 <asciilifeform> with certain probab. of being caught w/ pants down, naturally
225dbf6154b4993e…54b4993e…2023-06-20 17:56:56 <signpost> another indicator that looks useful is the amount of BTC being held by miners, if you believe glassnode data.
84c019fd225dbf61…225dbf61…2023-06-20 17:57:08 <signpost> they appear to collude to withhold BTC prior to halving, probably by taking out loans
9515e8f5d7d5dd69…d7d5dd69…2023-06-20 17:58:06 <asciilifeform> easily has the potential to fuck the 'price floor after halvings' effect, which'll make it a painful own goal for'em
482f44ae3ea64cb8…ba649836…2023-06-21 14:21:28 <awt> Processing all decrypted messages on a single thread is the way to go. Otherwise pure chaos.
585faafcadb8d662…482f44ae…2023-06-21 16:53:38 <awt> Good question. Certainly not the margin traders that got wiped out on ftx.
264fea6f5e228d0c…5e228d0c…2023-06-21 18:14:51 <asciilifeform> ^ reports that found (how? not said) btc signatures where nonce == most signif. 128bit of signer's privkey (gives trivial popping via lattice) ; and 'nearly 90,000 such signatures generated by around 900 addresses'. (all nao empty)
a1f2f19f7710a97e…7710a97e…2023-06-21 18:16:28 <asciilifeform> 'This attack has a simple countermeasure: deterministic ECDSA nonce generation as described in, for example, RFC 6979, which is implemented in the core library for Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other cryptocurrencies.'
2436e74175804af9…75804af9…2023-06-21 18:17:14 asciilifeform then looks at author list, and sure enuff, heninger et al.
13080e7b2911c5ee…da773c83…2023-06-21 18:18:19 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-05-17 decimation: "I don't really know, but I talked to Nadia Heninger about it and she mentioned that they were probably created by some email software only used in Germany. "
28c1a19413080e7b…13080e7b…2023-06-21 18:18:19 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-05-18 ascii_field: 'It doesn't work when Nadia Heninger goes to sell Phuctor before Stanford - Nadia Heninger doesn't own Phuctor, and the actual owners are very much present and very much capable to bitchslap her into oblivion.' << actually, 'crime pays.' chick gets a phd and cushy sinecure, etc.
86963c5828c1a194…2911c5ee…2023-06-21 18:24:13 <asciilifeform> ( or moar recent review thrd covering subj )
7a64e5ab86963c58…28c1a194…2023-06-21 18:24:13 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2018-05-04 asciilifeform: henninger
138bd5b87a64e5ab…585faafc…2023-06-22 04:52:17 <awt> Currently paging up through the logs on the desktop client. feels good.
1ce9c7ef138bd5b8…58a16235…2023-06-22 14:14:40 <billymg> my ukr server is unreachable, network graph in hosting dashboard shows it's been down last 30 min or so, just opened a ticket
9ca469f51ce9c7ef…138bd5b8…2023-06-22 14:07:41 <awt> billymg: nato probably took it out for not being gay enough
66bff58f2315ab9c…92262b46…2023-06-22 14:38:54 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 4m
96f10d5166bff58f…2315ab9c…2023-06-22 14:47:13 <billymg> cool thing about pest is those missed messages make it back to bitbot in the replay
bb9ae29995a90d43…95a90d43…2023-06-22 14:47:46 billymg is not running latest blatta yet so could be due to that
fcf398d5bb9ae299…86963c58…2023-06-22 15:10:50 <asciilifeform> billymg: awt's new logotron seems to have the pill for this.
4b330349fcf398d5…66bff58f…2023-06-22 15:12:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-19 10:35:31 awt: New station has a 'page' command, accessible via the json api, which should make it pretty straight forward to stand up a www log reader that reads directly from the pest log.
b16105f7b900d70c…9ca469f5…2023-06-22 18:01:58 <awt> billymg: while debugging paging, I'm noticing that the system time for your bot and your personal station don't seem to be in sync.
7e0a24d9b16105f7…b16105f7…2023-06-22 18:02:46 <awt> i.e. in the timestamp ordered log, your command is coming after the bot reply.
88bee55a7e0a24d9…586479d4…2023-06-22 19:02:14 <billymg> awt: they are in different timezones, bitbot is in EST and my station is in UTC, though it looks like my personal station's clock has drifted nearly 30 minutes
36cd3941d62b274f…4b330349…2023-06-22 19:01:29 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 4h 26m
1cd2e62bfae23e24…00000000…2023-06-22 20:40:45 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-22#1027630 << i didn't even think about it, i'm pretty sure i'm sending timestamps in local timezone, and i'm supposed to know better
e3f3f6771cd2e62b…7a64e5ab…2023-06-22 20:40:46 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-22 14:52:56 billymg[asciilifeform]: awt: they are in different timezones, bitbot is in EST and my station is in UTC, though it looks like my personal station's clock has drifted nearly 30 minutes
3e1704d2a8b6af9f…5c3b7eb9…2023-06-22 21:19:04 <asciilifeform> fwiw no timezonism in spec ( formulated as 'A Time consists of an Integer[8], obtained from a Pest station’s 64-bit monotonic epoch clock at the time of Message encoding; traditionally defined as: "a 64-bit unsigned fixed-point number, in seconds relative to 00:00:00 January 1, 1970, UTC".' )
aaa3925fa8b6af9f…a8b6af9f…2023-06-23 17:29:47 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-23#1027659 << i think the correct method is to trigger a cluster of getdatas on a periodic schedule, maybe keeping track of their counts/failures. so you start by spooling a moving window of getdatas into the past, eventually settling on U ;50a[!xBF@nWۏ*zq
49c986973e1704d2…3e1704d2…2023-06-22 21:20:51 asciilifeform marvels that sumbody could be sending timezonized timestamps to a station whose zone != , and they still got received?!
45950a5aaaa3925f…aaa3925f…2023-06-23 17:29:47 <phf> infrequent getdatas for packets that never returned U ;50a[!xBF@nWۏ*zq
bdc58b0949c98697…49c98697…2023-06-22 21:21:27 <asciilifeform> ( phf's zone iirc equals asciilifeform's, but afaik nobody else's of the folx tuned in )
14f3c7ef45950a5a…e3f3f677…2023-06-23 17:29:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-23 10:36:06 awt[asciilifeform]: If I reset the failed GetDatas I could probably get more.
6780a9c445950a5a…013fbe0c…2023-06-23 17:32:55 asciilifeform suspects that in all but pathological cases ( msg sent by ancient buggy pestrons ) getdata will return in <1s
1c524454bdc58b09…bdc58b09…2023-06-22 21:23:22 <asciilifeform> or , hm, billymg's observation was in re loggers, neh. so there could drift by however much
074beb4f1c524454…1c524454…2023-06-22 21:23:56 asciilifeform loox fwd to the abolition of the irc frontend
01a9a92242ac0645…42ac0645…2023-06-23 17:33:23 <asciilifeform> ( for directs, may have to wait until the pertinent peer is online, if he's cold )
238018e8074beb4f…563dae35…2023-06-22 21:24:21 <awt> Personally abolished - though station still mute
d5181c4401a9a922…01a9a922…2023-06-23 17:34:23 asciilifeform could be wrong tho, will be interesting to see what awt finds re the failed getdatas -- do they ever succeed on retry ? (i.e. is it worth to have the moving parts phf was referring to)
3e785a39d5181c44…d5181c44…2023-06-23 17:36:29 <asciilifeform> then again when using questionable modem, 'sliding' getdata oughta win
77dc0e6afe74ce78…074beb4f…2023-06-22 21:27:20 <asciilifeform> awt: nifty. ( would like to try it once 'both spreading and eating work'(tm) )
345dc4c977dc0e6a…fe74ce78…2023-06-22 21:27:49 <awt> Also, sadly I'm coming to the conclusion I will need scrollbars. Thought pg up, pg down would be sufficient, but, gotta know if you're at the top or bottom or somewhere in the middle somehow.
7d6fabe509eb54a1…50f0ce25…2023-06-23 17:42:12 <awt> Can confirm that they succeed on retry. Resetting attempts to 0 after initial sync putters out results in more responses. This is afaict due to blatta getting overloaded. (Shouldn't happen with multithreaded station)
013fbe0c345dc4c9…77dc0e6a…2023-06-22 21:28:47 <asciilifeform> awt: could display sumthing like phf's dragons (e.g. 'fiat lux!' at top, 'nao' on bottom) but if you've gui, wainot scrollbar
527f21fe7d6fabe5…7d6fabe5…2023-06-23 17:43:25 <awt> Current approach is perhaps similar to "sliding window". Turns out to be expanding sliding window tho.
12b47d8e527f21fe…527f21fe…2023-06-23 17:45:14 <awt> Also, currently only connected to 1 station. Should see better results when connected to multiple.
7127348f7f138ffc…7f138ffc…2023-06-22 21:29:38 <awt> I'm not witty enough to come up with indicators like that
82361097b0129c52…b0129c52…2023-06-23 19:44:47 <awt> phf: I'm running into issues displaying one of your messages. I these two characters: \udbff\udffd - they seem to be "surrogate pair codepoints used by UTF-16". Any idea how these originated or should be dealt with? They're also a possibly byproduct of my hack to remove multipart data from messages marked as non-multipa
8ce0db10a712de0d…64b6470a…2023-06-23 04:03:39 <awt> Pretty cool watching the log view get updated in realtime during an initial sync.
cdf8561033c63030…9b15fa9e…2023-06-23 14:31:43 <awt> First round of syncing got me back to: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2021-11-16#1000669
4df735438fa85d7b…09eb54a1…2023-06-23 21:12:53 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-23#1027265 << iirc phf had implemented the prev. version of asciilifeform's 'pre-draft', where these chars marked multipart text msgs ( later, per phf's suggestion, asciilifeform revised spec to make'em their own msg type )
42635721cdf85610…36cd3941…2023-06-23 14:33:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2021-11-16 13:25:16 PeterL: hey everybody
caae2f864df73543…42635721…2023-06-23 21:14:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-23 15:46:25 awt: phf: I'm running into issues displaying one of your messages. I these two characters: \udbff\udffd - they seem to be "surrogate pair codepoints used by UTF-16". Any idea how these originated or should be dealt with? They're also a possibly byproduct of my hack to remove multipart data
50f0ce2542635721…cdf85610…2023-06-23 14:32:19 <awt> If I reset the failed GetDatas I could probably get more.
e0063e08caae2f86…4df73543…2023-06-23 21:14:10 asciilifeform had picked those particular uniturds, having determined that they don't seem to produce catastrophic effects in afaik any existing displayer
1c733fb4e0063e08…e0063e08…2023-06-23 21:14:35 <asciilifeform> ( nor occur 'naturally' in any extant text likely to be pasted )
d7d966e14112f1e3…14f3c7ef…2023-06-23 21:19:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-11-28 11:06:10 phf[asciilifeform]: unfortunately until there's a great switchover, can't really do multipart reliably, since it'll spit noise into log
b45d7931d7d966e1…4112f1e3…2023-06-23 21:20:22 <asciilifeform> ( but! oddly not == to what awt saw in the messages tho, so possibly red herring?? )
6ce3a460b45d7931…b45d7931…2023-06-23 21:22:15 asciilifeform evidently not correctly recalled the uniturd he had used
140d1b346ce3a460…2b1beacf…2023-06-24 00:20:41 <signpost> https://zerohedge.com/geopolitical/wagner-chief-declares-full-coup-against-russian-defense-ministry << wild, did the west flip prigozhin
065c77191a11ae01…1a11ae01…2023-06-24 00:24:07 <signpost> guy has serious pills and booze physiognomy
f2e9c4c31a11ae01…38e3ff09…2023-06-24 02:26:23 <awt_akris> tk widgets are practically useless. Can't even sent the font inside a Listbox.
a53dbabc065c7719…ae819e95…2023-06-24 00:31:24 <asciilifeform> eh, that's just ordinary 'orc >40' lol
5a7512f3ad064b67…f7ff9574…2023-06-24 02:31:55 <signpost> this magical teletype box is vanity anyway. we must return to the quill.
9a0074b3a53c3a75…662b086f…2023-06-24 02:33:39 <awt> been using to to reference the pest spec quite a bit
a1617d7976031686…a53c3a75…2023-06-24 15:12:48 <signpost> I'm having a real hard time believing that wagner's just cruising up the road towards Moscow in tanks, APCs, and helicopters without incident.
77ab50d6a1617d79…a1617d79…2023-06-24 15:13:45 <signpost> the layers of bullshit here are fascinating.
2127f14f77ab50d6…f8b0a715…2023-06-24 15:14:19 <awt_akris> Reportedly they are calling it a "march for justice" or something like that.
af65c0872127f14f…00000000…2023-06-24 16:18:05 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-24#1027704 << this is peak fog of war, wherever i look, there's a lot of disinformation and delusion
3ede3f62af65c087…af65c087…2023-06-24 16:19:18 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-06-24#1027706 << presumably branding by the same people who are also saying that wagner is on the side of the ukrain
7beab87aaf65c087…d7d966e1…2023-06-24 16:19:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-24 11:12:56 signpost[asciilifeform]: I'm having a real hard time believing that wagner's just cruising up the road towards Moscow in tanks, APCs, and helicopters without incident.
a84bbf06af65c087…35d20c28…2023-06-24 16:26:40 <signpost> https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1672639944802680835 << smells like color revolution.
8b9dea6d3ede3f62…7beab87a…2023-06-24 16:19:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-24 12:18:07 awt_akris[4]: Reportedly they are calling it a "march for justice" or something like that.
e141d676a84bbf06…a84bbf06…2023-06-24 16:27:01 <signpost> whether what's in the video is real or not.
3ef96dace141d676…e141d676…2023-06-24 16:28:18 signpost wonders how much of the ukr aid money was bribes.
3311c9b53ef96dac…3ede3f62…2023-06-24 16:39:21 <phf> so far i would guess it's a разборка, and the color revolution-ism are opportunistic ops by other operators
5b1251933311c9b5…3311c9b5…2023-06-24 16:43:07 <phf> e.g. in that tweet's comments somebody authoritatively says, that prigozhin has a troll farm and auto dialers. why would he though?
4457c7afdebb9cf9…5b125193…2023-06-24 16:48:00 <phf> criminal gangs figuring out disputes over control and territory in an armed confrontation, as represented in this randomly pulled from youtube clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RjVUFF3h2o
9cd9d8a75da40741…5da40741…2023-06-24 16:52:26 <phf> but in a broader context calling something a razborka is to say that its effects are usually irrelevant to those who are not involved. yesterday you were dealing with sergey, tomorrow with boris, same terms, etc.
eabb6b329cd9d8a7…debb9cf9…2023-06-24 16:53:14 <signpost> got it, political reshuffle with some bleeding, but not total destruction of the losing side(s)
4b38ffd2eabb6b32…eabb6b32…2023-06-24 16:55:23 <signpost> so rivals within putin's circle figuring it out.
feda87bf4b38ffd2…9cd9d8a7…2023-06-24 16:55:32 <phf> yeah, "usually", because of course you can have unintended consequences, like both sides destroying themselves in a bloodshed (with a third side to swoop in, etc)
2709dc9e07dae168…feda87bf…2023-06-24 16:59:43 <phf> even troll farms are having a hard time positioning this as a "slava ukraini" kind of moment, but i'm sure some narrative will form soon. which is usually a sign that alphabet is not involved, because those guys have a pithy ready to roll of your tongue narrative going out just as the happening is happening.
d61126432709dc9e…2709dc9e…2023-06-24 17:07:11 <phf> oh hey remember that submarine that went missing, haven't heard anything about it, i'm sure they are all safely home by now
b56d79e7d6112643…07dae168…2023-06-24 17:09:18 <signpost> also something something aliens. or not, but later something again.
15db7b15b56d79e7…b56d79e7…2023-06-24 17:09:36 <signpost> meanwhile farted out some c: http://problematic.site/src/occ/
abe87fe95658f040…5658f040…2023-06-24 17:09:57 <signpost> squirt and slurp would be the entrypoints if anybody wants to eyeball
527dd9ff3b5f3517…611aba03…2023-06-24 17:57:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-24#1027315 << a++ point ( the goebbelses atm mostly silent )
6b8943c4527dd9ff…caae2f86…2023-06-24 17:59:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-24 13:01:22 phf[4]: even troll farms are having a hard time positioning this as a "slava ukraini" kind of moment, but i'm sure some narrative will form soon. which is usually a sign that alphabet is not involved, because those guys have a pithy ready to roll of your tongue narrative going out just as the
97d788898fc01bbc…8fc01bbc…2023-06-24 17:59:06 <asciilifeform> if d00d stays alive long enuff, there'll be lolcat memes featuring caesars, rubicons, etc. and whatnot
6fefeb7597d78889…3b5f3517…2023-06-24 17:59:38 <phf> but also releases in the past ~~40 minutes, https://lenta.ru/news/2023/06/24/luk/?ysclid=ljab1nmekb494805416
97bed9056fefeb75…97d78889…2023-06-24 18:02:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-24#1027319 << what part not worx yet ?
042cdb9497bed905…6b8943c4…2023-06-24 18:04:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-24 13:11:25 signpost: doesn't work yet, but getting there.
20cdc5c7042cdb94…6fefeb75…2023-06-24 18:03:16 <phf> and here's words from батька https://t.me/concordgroup_official/1303 "we had some disagreements, walked to moscow, no blood was spill, now there's possibility of blood, so we came to agreement, we're turning around and going to field camps"
2c469dd720cdc5c7…abe87fe9…2023-06-24 20:47:23 <signpost> asciilifeform: squirt mostly works. decoder’s not done, missing some logic yet
059ed3a42c469dd7…2c469dd7…2023-06-24 20:48:54 <signpost> need to finish the code that traverses to other solvable checkblocks when a solved message block makes them solvable, and need to write the part that handles when an auxblock popped out, which is equiv in the decoding process to a checkblock with many edges
d7f9b6ee8e53fbd2…6be94a46…2023-06-25 04:03:02 <awt_akris> Got presence and dm tabs working: https://imgur.com/a/t4ilxn9
3f258cc828655706…84ba864c…2023-06-25 04:05:15 <signpost> > This post may contain erotic or adult imagery.
e304cd87000000002e28b897…2023-07-06 14:31:00 <awt_akris> Yes an option to keep or discard a binary would be good. Currently can't see how to do that without having gaps in the chain.
5fe407f0e304cd87…e304cd87…2023-07-06 14:35:50 <awt_akris> Which brings up the question, should operators be able to delete *any* packet they do not wish to keep or serve?
035fb09326e17a0e…9d911a35…2023-07-06 14:48:02 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: broken chain will rather obv prevent a peer from getdataing what came prior to the break
5e4c05b0035fb093…035fb093…2023-07-06 14:48:46 <asciilifeform> hence the thrds re 'do you really want multi-MB lolcats in the chain'.
4011ec0832d20095…5e4c05b0…2023-07-06 14:49:34 asciilifeform proposed an 'inv' to drywall over this problem but imho it is a questionable pill
55b5823a4011ec08…4011ec08…2023-07-06 14:56:28 <asciilifeform> incidentally, even without 'i want to delete $msg', you still gotta have some means for storing hashes of msgs you don't want the station to eternally try getdataing, because by all indications they simply don't exist (i.e. chain hashes produced by buggy clients)
6ac02b3155b5823a…55b5823a…2023-07-06 14:58:16 asciilifeform suspects that there's ultimately no way to avoid introducing some alt-mechanism for fetching old msgs that doesn't rely on an intact chain
f2bfbaa36ac02b31…32d20095…2023-07-06 15:10:23 <awt_akris> Isn't this just select * from asked_for where attempts > n?
b176b4fafcc2ed0f…f2bfbaa3…2023-07-06 15:44:25 <awt_akris> What about a "placeholder" packet that says "I don't have this *anymore*, but maybe I have this packet that came immediately before, here's the hash"
c16746a2b176b4fa…fcc2ed0f…2023-07-06 15:44:47 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: this was asciilifeform's notion behind 'inv'
c097748c6a45c24d…87ca538c…2023-07-06 15:50:15 <awt_akris> Yeah I see it. How would an inv be populated? Randomly?
76fb80f2c097748c…6a45c24d…2023-07-06 15:51:15 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: asciilifeform did not specify in draft. 1 possible way is what awt_akris described above -- bridging a broken chain
f1400bbe76fb80f2…76fb80f2…2023-07-06 15:52:23 <asciilifeform> 'i haven't got $msg but i do have these-here with earlier timestamps than anyffin you've asked for'
bb130ea7c2cd6a75…f1400bbe…2023-07-06 17:54:51 <asciilifeform> the other notion behind 'inv' was the fact (elaborated at length by phf) that if netchain ends up used for 'threading', structure of the msgs will be a tree rather than linear chain, and there oughta be a way for getdataing station to retrieve the subtrees
74986f15f16f934d…f16f934d…2023-07-06 19:19:26 <awt_akris> Nice. Got a binary pacakage working on linux.
b17f0b8e43df2cc1…1531af26…2023-07-06 22:12:19 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-02 <<< I'm still catching up. Re vpatches, and sharing tools: I understand phf's point on ``vpatches' idea'', but it is also clear that signpost is trying to remove sadism from a good thing. Exactly like I can distribute a tarball for personal purposes, anyone can just trust my s
805a2e58b17f0b8e…b17f0b8e…2023-07-06 22:12:19 <unpx> ignature and install. Indeed, these are either robots or monkeys.
8c9a4f17805a2e58…ce3c64b5…2023-07-06 22:14:59 <signpost> there was this lingering conceit that one'd only express fits-in-head items in vpatches. this resulted in carrying along wads of e.g. ave1's scraped together version of gregor-somebody's gcc+musl bootstrap.
fdafea8d8c9a4f17…8c9a4f17…2023-07-06 22:15:24 signpost fully supports patch reading, just doesn't think pretending these items are outside the system helps.
1e09b11ffdafea8d…fdafea8d…2023-07-06 22:16:32 <signpost> and I don't mean anyone in particular when I say this, but an mp character screeching at untermenschen chills the air to the degree that all behavior nervously avoids the rebuke.
3de58acd1e09b11f…1e09b11f…2023-07-06 22:16:59 <signpost> at any rate, if one wants to read some patches, the patches that actually comprise an e.g. built trb are there, in pentacle's /src/ dir.
22c317c63de58acd…3de58acd…2023-07-06 22:17:31 <signpost> vtools also. it takes a gnat. this is not avoidable at the present time. that doesn't mean I like it.
479e8c7622c317c6…805a2e58…2023-07-06 22:19:49 <unpx> I have two eyes but I can read one line at a time for now
72cb3cd30b5dc563…479e8c76…2023-07-06 22:30:53 <unpx> I think someone need to think why is using vtools, sane editors, readable code and signed patches necessary. My knowledge on ADA or CL is useless at the moment and won't be able to fill this hole now. I'm thinking about what I need, and since I can't build everything on my own, even if I had the time, I think I should focu
8722832072cb3cd3…72cb3cd3…2023-07-06 22:30:53 <unpx> s on tools that actually matter to me (e.g. not rewriting a terminal emulator)
ae5becac87228320…87228320…2023-07-06 22:33:33 <unpx> One may even write a tool that tries to apply every patch by bruteforce
008acc34ae5becac…ae5becac…2023-07-06 22:39:22 <unpx> One one hand one may want to write her own birdfeeder, on the other hand one shouldn't reinvent every wheel. I don't see why non-portable code is written, like everything will run on Gentoo forever. To me it would be better to have blueprints so I can write a working piece in a weekend
6e9847d577600642…3841c51e…2023-07-06 22:42:14 <unpx> signpost: that thread, and others, are not just about vpatches tbh
ab8228b26e9847d5…6e9847d5…2023-07-06 22:44:33 <unpx> they are about the ``religion'' you are asking to review, the one where each one is able to work everything on their computers and the only thing that matter is trb's patches
944914bcbcc665cb…bcc665cb…2023-07-06 22:47:03 signpost has routinely found that what reads to him like flat text is read by others as screaming.
eda06ebe11d2d572…11d2d572…2023-07-06 22:48:36 <signpost> at any rate, yep, a (mostly simulated) physical ritual of downloading a patch is not what makes one the kind of person that reads the patch.
d7418a41eda06ebe…eda06ebe…2023-07-06 22:49:33 <signpost> it's that thing I was trying to do - and apparently failed to achieve - which is debate the method of uncovering truth in the forum.
4b3442eed7418a41…d4627ceb…2023-07-06 22:51:01 <unpx> To me is the fact that the whole process is not clear, indeed why have a vtool when I can review and apply manually patches?
1458709f4b3442ee…c862c55e…2023-07-06 22:51:41 <shinohai> I should write a bash script that downloads patches and forces you to read them piped through `less` for added masochism.
4b2759de1458709f…4b3442ee…2023-07-06 22:52:50 <unpx> shinohai, if you really want to, you can, the point is you are not explaining me a lot of things I may need to be able to review it
c88540d84b2759de…4b2759de…2023-07-06 22:54:24 <unpx> Like I know some languages (e.g. C, Scheme, Python) and understand a bit CL, but I would first need to read a reference manual on ADA before understaing even the gnat build configuration
d0f5f64bc88540d8…c88540d8…2023-07-06 22:56:00 <unpx> So what is best? Giving me the vtools in a tarball, giving me the vpatches and letting me suffer the unknown or giving me the blueprints and the vpatches so I may choose to write my own?
95b84fd6d0f5f64b…d7418a41…2023-07-06 22:56:19 <signpost> the upstream thing is what's wanted, and who says.
e62359f595b84fd6…d0f5f64b…2023-07-06 23:04:38 <unpx> I think there should be a way to manage documentation, not just a link to an archived site. That's why I was thinking how to manage everything in a more sane way: docs, code, vpatches, viewer, editor and environment
a0c34109e62359f5…e62359f5…2023-07-06 23:06:00 <unpx> Or at least guide people so they can write they own tools to do all of that the way they want
85fd8813a0c34109…95b84fd6…2023-07-06 23:17:05 <signpost> these tools were originally conceived in the context of the tmsr concept of sovereignty, which to quote the declaration held "nothing above, and the whole world below"
f7e60ad885fd8813…85fd8813…2023-07-06 23:19:56 <signpost> out of that individual sovereignty emerges as a necessary consequence self-reliance in thought, in business, in being-in-the-world.
fed3d75af7e60ad8…f7e60ad8…2023-07-06 23:21:12 <signpost> this is all beautiful, and the practical reality is we're years away from the kind of technogenic hell the chinese live within.
32860ee06f65205c…6f65205c…2023-07-06 23:22:14 <signpost> we being whatever the pitiful "west" is now.
8c6860c132860ee0…bb130ea7…2023-07-06 23:22:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-06#1027948 << see also e.g. [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com
a9558b0e8c6860c1…9572f884…2023-07-06 23:24:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-06 18:52:42 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: To me is the fact that the whole process is not clear, indeed why have a vtool when I can review and apply manually patches?
9378c3a31ce79b35…076e407a…2023-07-06 23:22:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-05 trinque: I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead.
266efa55a9558b0e…a9558b0e…2023-07-06 23:24:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-02 21:38:41 asciilifeform[4]: recall that asciilifeform originally advocated hand-sewn equivalent of this process before wrote vtron
c8cb7dd79378c3a3…9378c3a3…2023-07-06 23:22:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-05 jurov: but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it
21b16d11266efa55…9b403db5…2023-07-06 23:26:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-06#1027951 << ffa series ch.1 has 100% of errything one'd want to know re 'how do i bake builds on gnat'
63b881ecc8cb7dd7…c8cb7dd7…2023-07-06 23:22:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-05 asciilifeform: as i understand, any mechanized thing really depends on patches stating their antecedents
5ad1cdf58b24b33c…7e44fd4a…2023-07-06 23:23:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-06 ascii_field: ~verifying~ left - for now - to the alert reader.
23ea622a21b16d11…266efa55…2023-07-06 23:28:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-06 18:56:05 unpx[jonsykkel]: Like I know some languages (e.g. C, Scheme, Python) and understand a bit CL, but I would first need to read a reference manual on ADA before understaing even the gnat build configuration
7e44fd4a7caae075…63b881ec…2023-07-06 23:22:28 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-31 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000159.html
294196c85ad1cdf5…5ad1cdf5…2023-07-06 23:23:26 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-08-31 asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000159.html
9b403db5294196c8…8b24b33c…2023-07-06 23:24:14 <asciilifeform> http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000159.html << working link
da32f8b501d59553…32860ee0…2023-07-06 23:29:56 <signpost> https://www.adacore.com/download/more << adacore does not offer downloads earlier than 2018 anymore
5f3af8034f39a967…294196c8…2023-07-06 23:31:04 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-11-06 23:08:05 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's mirror of adacorpse's gnat fwiw
b9591b3829c7d3e2…cb9bb3f3…2023-07-06 23:37:03 <signpost> if y'all don't have any use for my item, that's alright by me. it really doesn't affect me.
0db76578b9591b38…b9591b38…2023-07-06 23:37:31 <signpost> I was just indicating I'm aware of the philosophical roots of the item under discussion.
def80a350db76578…29c7d3e2…2023-07-06 23:37:54 asciilifeform not tested signpost's latest just yet, but intends to
b5665702a051535c…a051535c…2023-07-06 23:38:34 <asciilifeform> ( signpost was obv there & saw how & why we have vtron )
4ad58c90b5665702…0db76578…2023-07-06 23:38:51 <signpost> one place I would like to improve the captured gcc specimen is 100% reproducible builds. cranked it pretty close, but not all the way yet.
236968d94ad58c90…4ad58c90…2023-07-06 23:39:13 <signpost> that was one of my primary motivations for capturing.
e4c792bcaf9f85b1…b5665702…2023-07-06 23:39:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: what was the remaining source of irreproducibility ? ( was it the timestamps-in-the-binary idjicy ? )
2fdd6f73e4c792bc…af9f85b1…2023-07-06 23:40:09 <signpost> squashed that one with __DATE__ and __TIME__ and making sources all have the same file attr timestamps.
4985848900b7bcaf…2fdd6f73…2023-07-06 23:40:26 <signpost> there were a few other sources of churn I squashed, but didn't discover all of them yet.
e1c492e049858489…49858489…2023-07-06 23:42:02 <signpost> http://problematic.site/src/pentacle/v/gcc/patches/gcc_ada_lib_info_respects_source_date_epoch.vpatch << e.g.
bbad2cebe1c492e0…ddbfc200…2023-07-07 00:47:03 <awt_mbpro> On osx the binary build looks like this: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=_8uG. Using it now.
f1321765bbad2ceb…43df2cc1…2023-07-07 04:09:12 <awt_akris> And of course it has to be signed to run on another mac.
3457c513f1321765…f1321765…2023-07-07 04:09:42 <awt_akris> Used to be able to do right-click open, but no longer.
f0f54d063457c513…cf8322f7…2023-07-07 13:51:24 <lobbes> is it that new apple "gatekeeper" jazz? I do hate that latest 'feature' in the newest mac osen
a6470f84f0f54d06…f0f54d06…2023-07-07 13:55:25 <lobbes> if so there's a way to force it to run on the second mac without needing to sign it with an "official apple store developer key" (link above outlines the hoops user has to jump through)
72de38a0a6470f84…00b7bcaf…2023-07-07 14:30:07 <asciilifeform> lobbes: iirc you gotta switch the idjicy off in crapple's config
52efc21072de38a0…a6470f84…2023-07-07 15:04:30 <lobbes> asciilifeform: ah right you are. Looks like it can be disabled via "spctl --master-disable"
6b506e347ef47bbd…a1a69d22…2023-07-07 21:29:34 <awt_akris> Still trying to get pentacle to work on my system. Trying to figure out why chroot is not where it is expected to be. I don't see any attempts to symlink it.
cfb87d106b506e34…6b506e34…2023-07-07 21:32:28 <awt_akris> Vastly ignorant of bintools, but brief research indicates it's not part of bintools.
a2c627b1cfb87d10…a78b33af…2023-07-07 22:03:25 <awt> This is what the script is executing: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0fyK
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 485fed8c5708efdf51e1e0ef30c7810de9b4a88e6bb895483d11c83d6b8e58bb) prior to <awt_akris> ---
1b02760e485fed8c…485fed8c…2023-07-07 22:02:38 <awt_akris> This is what the script is executing: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0fyK
b174e9811b02760e…a2c627b1…2023-07-07 22:21:23 <awt> Interesting, pbuild isn't where expected either.
53e57020b174e981…b174e981…2023-07-07 22:21:39 <awt> (symlinked in chroot to get to the next command)
0516f79e53e57020…e1c492e0…2023-07-07 23:39:23 <signpost> is there something special about your homedir or projects dir?
3d3c319e0516f79e…53e57020…2023-07-07 23:42:34 <awt> It's not symlinked or anything. pyenv is disabled, not that that would have any bearing.
e00810743d3c319e…3d3c319e…2023-07-08 00:02:35 <awt> Not clear to me atm from where pbuild should come. Manually chrooted into target - lots of bins, but no chroot, no pbuild to be found.
5c13ca91e0081074…0516f79e…2023-07-08 00:18:36 <signpost> kinda confused. in related news, I just cut myself loose from the commercial project I was working on, so I just became very available to write docs for this thing.
fd30b8145c13ca91…5c13ca91…2023-07-08 00:18:56 <signpost> pbuild is just a script that sits at /src/pbuild within the chroot; it doesn't get symlinked or copied anywhere
f3c59e7a735ac03a…735ac03a…2023-07-08 00:21:40 <awt_akris> Ok so pbuild is not a binary. That helps. It should then be pressed to src.
e52a5a4cf3c59e7a…0cb95448…2023-07-08 00:22:44 <signpost> yeah, I recommend to run the ./clean.sh script, and then delete the whole directory and untar it fresh.
8657964ce52a5a4c…e52a5a4c…2023-07-08 00:22:58 <signpost> I'm going to run it over here step by step alongside ya and fill my head caches with what it does at each step.
6790b27a8657964c…f3c59e7a…2023-07-08 00:23:10 <awt_akris> chroot should also be in src, but is not, but IS a binary executable, I believe.
2f166293a6fe28e3…8657964c…2023-07-08 00:23:38 <signpost> here's what happens at a high level. I fart out a debian-based chroot so that I have a stable build environment for the next step.
b7c7de662f166293…2f166293…2023-07-08 00:24:34 <signpost> also I have a version of this newer by several months than the one on my server. let me upload that (although shinohai had no problem with the version you have) and we'll be looking at exactly the same thing
28a0b94bb7c7de66…b7c7de66…2023-07-08 00:25:46 <signpost> anyway, returning to steps, I then bind-mount the target dir into the debian dir, so that I can see it from there when I chroot in
be6a716528a0b94b…28a0b94b…2023-07-08 00:26:14 <signpost> once in the debian dir, I build everything I need to rebuild myself from debian.
d0f0adb0be6a7165…be6a7165…2023-07-08 00:27:33 <signpost> then I exit, trash the debian chroot, and enter the target chroot and rebuild everything a second time, so it's been built with itself (approximately, as there are obviously turtles all the way down here, no such thing as "itself")
11eeec2ed0f0adb0…d0f0adb0…2023-07-08 00:29:14 <signpost> *until such time as binary-reproducible builds work perfectly, in which case it can be said that the thing has stabilized, and that build product could be signed.
584cf93011eeec2e…a6fe28e3…2023-07-08 00:32:06 <awt_akris> Ok after removing pentacle and unpacking again, getting further.
81896875344c1a66…584cf930…2023-07-08 01:22:19 <awt_akris> Just got multipart message assembly working. That + support for the [][] format (not yet working) should make ascii's link dumps much more readable.
71467232599419a3…d4da2e56…2023-07-08 03:25:45 <awt_akris> lol the threadsafe sqlite3 wrapper I'm using was produced by Palantir.
8fef32dd00000000b8173836…2023-07-08 16:31:34 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-06-23#1027265 << It looks like this was an emoticon.
d7d638568fef32dd…23ea622a…2023-07-08 16:33:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-23 15:46:25 awt: phf: I'm running into issues displaying one of your messages. I these two characters: \udbff\udffd - they seem to be "surrogate pair codepoints used by UTF-16". Any idea how these originated or should be dealt with? They're also a possibly byproduct of my hack to remove multipart data
64a3ef5ad7d63856…1c06caa1…2023-07-08 18:20:53 <signpost> updated the src at http://problematic.site/src/pentacle and removed old cruft. can snag the whole thing with `wget -R -np`
b751e0c364a3ef5a…64a3ef5a…2023-07-08 18:21:27 <signpost> gonna get a README.html in there later after I take a baby swimming
5a3548d0b751e0c3…b751e0c3…2023-07-08 18:22:15 <signpost> not all patches in there are needed for just a bootstrapper, but I'm trying to actually dogfood the thing and put what I need, so there's an emacs, lilo, etc
997f505a000000008fef32dd…2023-07-08 23:54:42 <awt_akris> Thanks for posting that fire emoji shinohai. I've now discovered that tkinter can't handle them.
0671c96f302c74a5…302c74a5…2023-07-09 00:00:18 <shinohai> Always kinda hilarious how weechat renders emojis fine in terminal http://btc.info.gf/uploads/PEST1.png
3416b7f20671c96f…997f505a…2023-07-09 00:00:58 <awt_akris> Yep but it's a little wokny if you try to edit a line with an emoji in it.
db971d9ea2881236…a2881236…2023-07-09 09:20:04 <signpost> In which signpost finally autocompletes porn in the wrong app
59aef2dccb38cb0d…792eee3f…2023-07-09 14:33:35 <awt_akris> I don't think even mp could get sex off of irc, though he tried.
4add922a59aef2dc…344c1a66…2023-07-09 14:47:40 <awt> lobbes: peered - let's see if address cast hooks us up
3b2a67c84add922a…59aef2dc…2023-07-09 15:06:31 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-08#1028046 << Looking forward to this. I may try to get python3 + tkinter building in pentacle.
c15a6dc53b2a67c8…d7d63856…2023-07-09 15:08:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-08 14:23:14 signpost: gonna get a README.html in there later after I take a baby swimming
94815915c15a6dc5…3b2a67c8…2023-07-09 16:14:55 <awt_akris> shinohai: mind peering awt_akris? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=IrYv
7f7f95880000000094815915…2023-07-09 16:21:40 <awt_akris> Hmm weird, I can see a prod going out to you but no reply.
49cc70b57f7f9588…db971d9e…2023-07-10 01:00:28 signpost thanks the trb node in nyc for its service, nearly done syncing.
94c86b3249cc70b5…52efc210…2023-07-10 02:35:14 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-09#1028060 << sounds good. I don't see any packets from your station yet, but I'll keep my eyes peeled on my logs / at
60a2f7de94c86b32…c15a6dc5…2023-07-10 02:36:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-09 10:49:20 awt: lobbes: peered - let's see if address cast hooks us up
e3d055f634707838…4add922a…2023-07-10 15:07:12 <awt> lobbes: That explains. Latest is 9969. Might as well wait until I release Akris to update though.
1dec0f23e3d055f6…49cc70b5…2023-07-10 16:56:43 <signpost> awt: sounds like with the (JSON-RPC?) interface it'll be easy to have UI sitting on another box and connected to the node?
7c6d2dc61dec0f23…1dec0f23…2023-07-10 16:57:02 <signpost> can more than one UI talk to the same node? just curious.
3db8103d7c6d2dc6…7c6d2dc6…2023-07-10 17:15:13 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-09#1028066 << first full sync of a node running my wallet excision and raw-tx-hole trepannation. doesn't seem like I broke anything.
e3b7cd4b3db8103d…60a2f7de…2023-07-10 17:17:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-09 21:02:16 signpost: thanks the trb node in nyc for its service, nearly done syncing.
fd67756fe3b7cd4b…e3d055f6…2023-07-10 18:09:43 <awt> signpost: yes, should be possible to connect via port forwarding and yes it should be able to handle multiple client connections - haven't yet tested though.
ee83e623ce6856e9…fd67756f…2023-07-10 18:14:51 <awt> atm akris-desktop imports the station lib and starts its own
5a65fcb4ee83e623…ce6856e9…2023-07-10 18:15:20 <signpost> not trying to pile refactorings onto ya, just something that'd be nice at some point.
bb2918248a969788…8a969788…2023-07-10 18:16:07 <signpost> with the buffer playback mechanism in znc, both clients stay up to date pretty nicely
dba9e45a8a969788…ee83e623…2023-07-10 18:16:15 <awt> shouldn't be a big deal to add in an option to connect to a remote station, but yes, may not be in the initial release.
3bc3a21bbb291824…dba9e45a…2023-07-10 18:18:14 <awt> oh neat - never really got a mobile irc setup I liked.
e1dd97e53bc3a21b…bb291824…2023-07-10 18:18:35 <signpost> gotta turn off the buffer clearing setting, then there are plugins for playback and palaver specifically
9220e2ade1dd97e5…e1dd97e5…2023-07-10 18:18:51 <signpost> works good enough I end up looking up porn in my irc client after partying all night!
fbc49be5820cf105…34707838…2023-07-11 00:58:49 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-10#1028071 << roger that. I'm looking forward to trying Akris out!
1074aa45fbc49be5…e3b7cd4b…2023-07-11 01:00:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-10 11:08:51 awt: lobbes: That explains. Latest is 9969. Might as well wait until I release Akris to update though.
6f6d4b061074aa45…f5f3c019…2023-07-11 02:31:25 <awt_akris> pest:///Wd1b8jMjbTxR2s3kag8VER1bQVb7JKZpetfMGN79hw=
9eae8c8a6f6d4b06…6f6d4b06…2023-07-11 02:32:08 <awt_akris> pest://Wd1b8jMjbTxR2s3kag8VER1bQVb7JKZpetfMGN79hw=
e26c0de19eae8c8a…9eae8c8a…2023-07-11 03:00:56 <awt_akris> In which I manage to test the one base64 encoded message hash that begins with a forward slash.
08be82a0196f83ac…da998fef…2023-07-11 04:42:03 <awt> Chipping away at making the entire log accessible from the client.
51c1eb1708be82a0…e26c0de1…2023-07-11 04:48:17 <awt_akris> I believe previously discussed, but quite possible to bootstrap a pest net using the pre-pest IRC logs.
689b221f51c1eb17…196f83ac…2023-07-11 04:49:02 <signpost> what are you thinking about there? someone's client recites them as hearsay or something?
f6222ea2689b221f…51c1eb17…2023-07-11 04:51:43 <awt_akris> Yes. Could modify historical message nicks with some kind of suffix.
293d6f6bf6222ea2…f6222ea2…2023-07-11 04:52:44 <awt_akris> Or you pre-load your pest db with all the lines.
4671a30a293d6f6b…293d6f6b…2023-07-11 04:54:11 <awt_akris> That approach wouldn't work for the current pestnet, but there could be an archival pestnet or something.
c4eabd5895297390…689b221f…2023-07-11 14:27:08 <signpost> awt: there's a threading mechanism, so the logs could be recited in their own thread.
abb296a5c4eabd58…c4eabd58…2023-07-11 14:27:25 <signpost> in fact this would allow more than one person to recite his logs as he knew them.
efa5fadbabb296a5…31e57a2d…2023-07-11 14:40:19 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-11#1028104 << wouldja have separate 'archive nets' for separate chans? (or, lol, cacophony of mixture of ancient chans??) and wat-do about non-pestable handles (tooshort, toolong, non-ascii) ?
0dc4a3adefa5fadb…1074aa45…2023-07-11 14:42:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-11 00:55:53 awt_akris[awt]: That approach wouldn't work for the current pestnet, but there could be an archival pestnet or something.
263a2d6c0dc4a3ad…efa5fadb…2023-07-11 14:41:10 <asciilifeform> imho easier for folx who want to cite vintage logs, to use the bots ( asciilifeform intends to keep his working, even after fully pestronic loggers come online, if only for this )
7001b271263a2d6c…263a2d6c…2023-07-11 14:42:49 asciilifeform can't help but draw an analogy b/w the notion of shoehorning historical folx who were never on pestnet, into the latter, and -- the mormon religion's 'retro conversion' of the dead, lol
00fcb22c7001b271…36e2a63f…2023-07-11 14:43:31 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: hey could even bring them back to life
9e0c40cb08cb07fd…08cb07fd…2023-07-11 14:44:05 asciilifeform recalls attempt to bake 'mpbot' in fact while mp was alive
3bf0618e9e0c40cb…abb296a5…2023-07-11 14:49:42 <signpost> yeah, I'm not married to the idea, but it would be a shame for those citations to eventually become unusable.
1697394533bff7a6…33bff7a6…2023-07-11 14:51:12 signpost figures he will eventually blog into such a "subthread" too, though perhaps this idea isn't settled.
48ec357216973945…9e0c40cb…2023-07-11 15:48:12 <asciilifeform> signpost: interesting things tend to get preserved (barring mass cataclysms) 1 way or anuther
03e1664448ec3572…5f3af803…2023-07-11 15:48:12 <dulapbot> (alethepedia) 2020-10-01 asciilifeform: kokkarinen preserved some of danimal's usenet articles on his (long-gone, but variously mirrored) www .
f20e2ea803e16644…16973945…2023-07-11 16:02:35 <signpost> the annoying bit is the references breaking, but this is admittedly probably orthogonal to pest.
ee457ccc73a40329…00fcb22c…2023-07-11 18:01:05 <awt_akris> Akris Desktop could be considered an offline log browser, from one angle. Some might prefer to browse old logs this way, rather than someone else's or their own self hosted site. Anyway, no immediate plans to do the gruntwork of loading old logs into the db.
ff88118bee457ccc…48ec3572…2023-07-11 21:22:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-11#1028094 << wainot, come to think of it, base58 ?
93b50c45ff88118b…0dc4a3ad…2023-07-11 21:23:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-11 00:40:02 signpost: could use the "urlsafe" variant
2dc34bd5f79fa9c0…f79fa9c0…2023-07-11 21:30:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-11#1028121 << irc-type log to date is iirc <100MB. hypothetically a pestron could fix displayed log refs via brute fulltext search in the former (optionally)
ca78e7692dc34bd5…93b50c45…2023-07-11 21:31:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-11 12:04:25 signpost: the annoying bit is the references breaking, but this is admittedly probably orthogonal to pest.
2d7cd0aaca78e769…2dc34bd5…2023-07-11 21:31:16 <asciilifeform> ( that being said, the sooner htmlistic log refs are to pest msg hashes rather than local log line #s, i suppose, the better )
d3930113ca78e769…ee457ccc…2023-07-11 23:15:22 <awt_akris> This is how log links are working: https://vimeo.com/844415531?share=copy
2f626307d3930113…d3930113…2023-07-11 23:16:22 <awt_akris> Clicking on a timestamp copies a pest link to the clipboard.
b9a7fef03eac48d3…73a40329…2023-07-12 14:49:13 <signpost> gox is going to give back about 100k coins to creditors by october too.
6362fd62f7d64fc6…3eac48d3…2023-07-12 14:52:46 <asciilifeform> hm, weren't the gox payouts denominated in fiatola?
7af036038509bbed…03e16644…2023-07-12 20:23:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-07-12 amberglint: asciilifeform: apparently someone imaged an Ivory and promises to post pics soon: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36642581
e23441d17af03603…db950dcc…2023-07-13 00:10:54 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: do you know what should be passed as the first argument to serpent_setkey()?
8091a93a9d4ebf8b…9d4ebf8b…2023-07-13 00:14:07 <jonsykkel> precalculates some stuf, then taht bufer is passed to the crypter/decrypters
dba351428091a93a…e23441d1…2023-07-13 00:17:15 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: what should be in the buffer - or, what is it used for?
ecf1c67d9a4263dd…9a4263dd…2023-07-13 00:18:07 <awt_akris> no idea what to pass as that buffer from python.
771b8ac0ecf1c67d…ecf1c67d…2023-07-13 00:20:23 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: looks like our clocks are a little out of sync.
032092e8f065a26b…f065a26b…2023-07-13 00:24:33 <jonsykkel> ur gonna ned the src/serpent.c also to do cbc
3d76c8c2032092e8…771b8ac0…2023-07-13 00:26:56 <awt_akris> I've got a .so compiled that I can load and call serpent_setkey, serpent_block_enc, and serpent_block_dec from.
c90896cefeb49d18…feb49d18…2023-07-13 00:27:40 <jonsykkel> need specificly serpent_cbc_ciph/serpent_cbc_deciph
21993913cce7e7d1…220bcd7c…2023-07-13 17:21:30 <awt_akris> Sadly gave up trying to figure out how to initialize the c types required to use jonsykkel's serpent, but I have been able to get pygcrypt (a python libgcrypt wrapper) working.
da60d03c21993913…a8f1af97…2023-07-13 17:22:18 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-12#1028137 << they really do seem to be trying to defend the 31k level, every time it creeps above it gets dumped back down
1d1ca28fda60d03c…ca78e769…2023-07-13 17:23:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-12 10:45:03 asciilifeform[5]: ...meanwhile, in waterfall lulz.
5b6dd6661d1ca28f…21993913…2023-07-13 17:22:45 <awt_akris> Ran into segfault with jonsykkel's, couldn't find the core dumps, etc.
4f6b63035b6dd666…da60d03c…2023-07-13 17:24:26 <billymg> meanwhile, king shitcoin just broke below 100 for the first time since april '22
70aa95c74f6b6303…5b6dd666…2023-07-13 17:30:00 <awt_akris> Can't tell if it's a single pump and dumper or a pumper and a dumper.
89f0b0a6029f9415…4f6b6303…2023-07-13 17:43:55 <billymg> asciilifeform: DXY is the "dollar index", USD vs. basket of other fiat currencies
6b63c96689f0b0a6…58205fb0…2023-07-13 17:43:41 <signpost> dxy is a dollar index against a bunch of dollar-colony country currencies.
77dc844481d7652a…6b63c966…2023-07-13 17:44:40 <signpost> has gone sharply splat the last few times we hit the reset button on the US economy with a pencil.
a9af891b82b4165b…77dc8444…2023-07-13 17:44:56 <signpost> it's pulling from some volume-weighted thing iirc
5662bc70c0d13b3d…c0d13b3d…2023-07-13 17:46:15 <signpost> but I will whisper "31K" with rapture in my voice if you want, bae
f1fb2798de6df6cd…de6df6cd…2023-07-13 17:47:41 <signpost> might just be that coingecko's free API doesn't update that often.
b3de00c2f1fb2798…766e362c…2023-07-13 17:48:20 asciilifeform not 'immune' but operates in 'how many zeros' mode when looking at exch rate
25321d73b3de00c2…f804c630…2023-07-13 17:48:23 <awt_akris> who knows wtf yahoo finance uses - stops working entirely for days every month
d178b8b5a1d79e7e…25321d73…2023-07-13 17:49:36 <awt_akris> harder to go from x billion to x trillion than from x million to x billion
ab9cadd1d178b8b5…f1fb2798…2023-07-13 17:50:06 signpost pretty convinced the "but what to buy" problem comes for us also.
47211eeb007b5850…7aaede70…2023-07-13 17:54:38 <asciilifeform> signpost: elaborate re 'what to buy problem' ?
15dfc80a6be291f4…89f0b0a6…2023-07-13 18:04:22 <billymg> neato, linking to pestnet.io -- i should update the spec (iirc it's the latest pressed version but asciilifeform's latest draft is quite a bit ahead)
aadd300415dfc80a…15dfc80a…2023-07-13 18:04:37 <billymg> asciilifeform: should i just copy what you have on your www as the latest draft?
da9aab8baadd3004…6be291f4…2023-07-13 18:05:09 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform has been vehehery slowly updating the predraft, aiming to post new one in coming wks
c996f3f6da9aab8b…da9aab8b…2023-07-13 18:05:29 <asciilifeform> billymg: feel free to post the current one if you like tho
7ef6ef9ac996f3f6…c996f3f6…2023-07-13 18:05:55 <asciilifeform> ( the current predraft is still missing buncha things, e.g. rekeying algo )
0345f4f8e0017c42…e0017c42…2023-07-13 18:45:39 <asciilifeform> billymg: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
3910ad4f0345f4f8…0345f4f8…2023-07-13 18:45:54 <asciilifeform> ^ htmlized (with bitmap graphics) version of the orig predraft spec
f358bfb02fb65057…2fb65057…2023-07-13 18:50:16 asciilifeform not baked proper vpatch yet for this thing, but will
17ff05fff358bfb0…f358bfb0…2023-07-13 18:55:11 <asciilifeform> ( sha2 of tarball == 34607e5628687b1bc1968d07b9cf4db33f225cca6f21c0ad4fc93f5c7a33f7a2 )
4cbb22bac6911cd5…17ff05ff…2023-07-13 21:21:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-13#1028191 << reading this closely, asciilifeform suspects this may be 1st instance of ru-config'd gptism he's witnessed ( the text is ~exact paraphrase of intro of billymg's pestronics www )
1f5296954cbb22ba…1d1ca28f…2023-07-13 21:23:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 13:52:41 asciilifeform[5]: meanwhile, in pestronics lulz. (ru)
a61e247653dcb4f0…c6911cd5…2023-07-14 03:02:41 <awt_akris> Just realized that, until the loggers are updated to use akris, multipart messages will not show up in the www logs.
79d0916ca61e2476…4cbb22ba…2023-07-14 14:47:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-13#1028215 << asciilifeform recs to have a toggle for multipart (switch it on when errybody tuned in actually has a pestron that eats'em)
6a7af8c679d0916c…1f529695…2023-07-14 14:49:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 23:04:23 awt_akris[awt]: Just realized that, until the loggers are updated to use akris, multipart messages will not show up in the www logs.
691be58020610017…e47f80f7…2023-07-14 14:49:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-13#1028214 << erry coupla months asciilifeform loox for e.g. 'pest p2p' in various search engines , see whether sumbody sumwhere in heathendom had mentioned it
7647cf75691be580…6a7af8c6…2023-07-14 14:50:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 21:04:18 awt: How did you find the article?
d3d5db6fddb8ccc8…20610017…2023-07-14 15:10:21 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: can you peer awt_akris? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=VqwI
64af220e52663f1a…53cb1e6e…2023-07-14 15:42:47 signpost is very fucking suspicious of the CEO of blackrock suddenly being a bitcoin evangelist on normie TV.
8dec287664af220e…3735a487…2023-07-14 15:43:57 <billymg> signpost: likewise, i don't like that one bit
4ff8bab08dec2876…64af220e…2023-07-14 15:44:06 <signpost> either they know the situation for USD is catastrophic rather than just bad, or Bitcoin was a USG project like tor.
c6e9868600283cc9…00283cc9…2023-07-14 15:44:59 <signpost> blackrock is one of the most powerful forces driving esg marxism.
dbc3e106c6e98686…8dec2876…2023-07-14 15:45:56 <billymg> third could be setting up for a repeat of "lift exchange rate in plane then drop" (TM) asciilifeform
f8d8e3badbc3e106…c6e98686…2023-07-14 15:46:47 <signpost> you'd have to explain why they are willing to make themselves look like shit by promoting a dogshit ETF, then.
8ab0af65f8d8e3ba…dbc3e106…2023-07-14 15:48:07 <billymg> as in, look like shit when the ETF tanks after the pump?
13732dce8ab0af65…f8d8e3ba…2023-07-14 15:47:51 <signpost> this looks like they're going to use bitcoin as an airlift for the wealthy.
8729379113732dce…13732dce…2023-07-14 15:48:51 <signpost> I for the record don't buy at all the "lift and drop" notion. each one of these occurred after a supply choke.
d243b8f387293791…87293791…2023-07-14 15:49:32 <signpost> a short-term speculative bubble followed by a collapse back to cost (of mining) is exactly what'd be expected after those.
d914793ed243b8f3…8ab0af65…2023-07-14 15:51:27 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028234 << i don't see why this would be a problem, everyone already had 13 years to buy btc
ef7ffcced914793e…7647cf75…2023-07-14 15:53:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 11:49:40 signpost: this looks like they're going to use bitcoin as an airlift for the wealthy.
2fe2807bef7ffcce…d243b8f3…2023-07-14 15:52:02 <signpost> no, there is an absurdly higher amount of wealth in USD than in Bitcoin.
86e9b82c35ea342b…35ea342b…2023-07-14 15:54:29 <signpost> imagine you're holding commercial real estate bags right now, or an ever-narrower number of stonks.
2c55cf7a9160cd40…9160cd40…2023-07-14 15:57:01 <awt_akris> I think BTC has usg support. Don't know if originally an op.
99a1b9c12c55cf7a…d914793e…2023-07-14 15:59:04 <billymg> signpost: i guess i'm not seeing the problem. if your bags are already packed, where's the downside in fiat money / distressed assets flooding into btc all of a sudden?
ad472a1c0a1cea46…0a1cea46…2023-07-14 15:59:52 <signpost> there were old threads about btc infiltrating old institutions and bending them around it.
ba04c6d00a1cea46…99a1b9c1…2023-07-14 16:00:10 <billymg> other than maybe now you've got a target on your back, from lizards who "that's too much for a pleb to have" to your jealous neighbors whose bags weren't packed
7e9bb2ce9ef0af7e…ad472a1c…2023-07-14 16:00:50 <signpost> *if* bitcoin turned out to have been a USG project, that would have to update my perspective on the effectiveness of USG.
d0a1977c7e9bb2ce…7e9bb2ce…2023-07-14 16:01:28 <signpost> or yes, if bitcoin's finally bending the largest piles of wealth on earth toward itself, that's also a marvel.
0b88052ad0a1977c…2c55cf7a…2023-07-14 16:03:46 <awt_akris> I was persuaded by this: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/, still am.
c33becd60b88052a…d0a1977c…2023-07-14 16:10:43 <signpost> http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#selection-113.0-116.0 << sounds about right eh?
5d9f7df0c33becd6…c33becd6…2023-07-14 16:11:13 <signpost> but there are mixtures of most of his scenarios happening all together.
4e3a84785d9f7df0…5d9f7df0…2023-07-14 16:11:38 <signpost> except sadly the coming to timisoara to kiss the ring.
de18e6474e3a8478…0b88052a…2023-07-14 16:14:30 <awt_akris> signpost: yes definitely a mixture. I suppose the raising of interest rates could be considered a government revolt.
ad0703efde18e647…4e3a8478…2023-07-14 16:14:33 signpost also recalls either a thread or post where the idea that Bitcoin may be the lizards allowing the lizard-caste blood to be refreshed by techbros was discussed.
1bbc502bad0703ef…ad0703ef…2023-07-14 16:15:01 <signpost> "eh whatever, let a few of them in. most of them will fall right back out after"
23eeb71c1bbc502b…377bea3a…2023-07-14 16:15:43 <asciilifeform> signpost: was this thrd ( where asciilifeform not bought theory )
d0b0fe1423eeb71c…7af03603…2023-07-14 16:15:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 billymg: the hypothesis i was trying to lay out earlier is that anyone successfully securing some coin has already been inaugurated into their ranks
bf50d5fcd0b0fe14…1bbc502b…2023-07-14 16:16:54 <signpost> ah, as usual I updated the thing as I remembered it.
82c64e44bf50d5fc…bf50d5fc…2023-07-14 16:17:21 signpost claims this is how they get the intelligent to keep them in place, with a dangled hope of getting in.
0f57deb882c64e44…82c64e44…2023-07-14 16:17:37 <signpost> thanks for bitcoin, now eat shit and die again.
0cb8b62d0f57deb8…23eeb71c…2023-07-14 16:18:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: the plebe-popularization of 'stonks' in 1920s was the original 'dangle hope' arguably
75e1ab30d38f137b…0cb8b62d…2023-07-14 16:20:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028249 << good % of errything that's happened 'in bitcoin space' since '13 or so -- imho screamingly obv. usg firefighting efforts (goxes, bigbloxisms, 'legalization' for papercoin issuance, shitcoin proliferation, etc, younameit)
21f92e9d75e1ab30…ef7ffcce…2023-07-14 16:22:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 12:02:39 signpost: *if* bitcoin turned out to have been a USG project, that would have to update my perspective on the effectiveness of USG.
5017574621f92e9d…d38f137b…2023-07-14 16:22:03 <signpost> I wouldn't shock at one chunk of USG doing something the rest doesn't like, but the "bitcoin corrupts" interpretation seems likelier.
872bc7bc50175746…75e1ab30…2023-07-14 16:22:45 <asciilifeform> difficult to argue that any of it was particularly 'effective' tho , given the likely orig. objective
4875b08e872bc7bc…d0b0fe14…2023-07-14 16:22:46 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 asciilifeform: their original, in my cosmography, objective, was to defend printoladism by making sure btc not only fails but craters in such a way as to be remembered for 1000y
6ef4e7ea4875b08e…de18e647…2023-07-14 16:22:59 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: to me explained by greed, stupidity, incompetence.
36d08a766ef4e7ea…50175746…2023-07-14 16:23:09 <signpost> nah, I mean there were plenty of glowies in early prb
0d883f2b36d08a76…872bc7bc…2023-07-14 16:24:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028243 << 'btc' aint quite a single thing. the aspects that have usg support -- aint the ones e.g. asciilifeform interested in , and aint even necessarily the same set of aspects from pov of all factions of usg muppe
9c0745d50d883f2b…4875b08e…2023-07-14 16:24:41 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-19 asciilifeform: signpost: re 'why pest' -- asciilifeform is a btc aficionado of the (nearly extinct, possib.) old school -- would like to live in world where can get paid in uninflating, untaxable coinz, and buy necessities of live in same. doubt that anyone living nao will live to see such thing,
9fcde9cc0d883f2b…21f92e9d…2023-07-14 16:26:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 11:58:43 awt_akris[awt]: I think BTC has usg support. Don't know if originally an op.
1a2934299fcde9cc…6ef4e7ea…2023-07-14 16:27:34 <awt_akris> tru signpost, for ex. the american/brittish sabateurs. Andreesen, that other guy that tried to add ssl.
a055c9f51a293429…9ef0af7e…2023-07-14 16:28:13 <billymg> asciilifeform: short for "glow nigger", which i believe originated as a terry davisism (not sure). used a lot on 4chan. means basically federal agent
2da07405a055c9f5…f9d25cb4…2023-07-14 16:28:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028228 << prb is most certainly 'project like tor'. at same time usd is presently where ruble was in 1991. certain faction of reich oligarchs would like equiv. of 1991 deutschmark, usd, etc.,
b34ebd335b2627e4…9fcde9cc…2023-07-14 16:29:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 11:45:55 signpost: either they know the situation for USD is catastrophic rather than just bad, or Bitcoin was a USG project like tor.
4e7d4fed6d7fdb3b…6d7fdb3b…2023-07-14 16:29:33 <asciilifeform> 'outsides' are only effective on a 'thermodynamic gradient' tho -- sumbody has to be stuck on the 'inside', at whose expense to win.
4e75bd2a6d7fdb3b…9c0745d5…2023-07-14 16:29:34 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-06-07 asciilifeform: ru storyteller v. pelevin had a scene where 'we had sovok, but to ours, people could bring bootleg jeans and music. and it was even possible to get out. now you have one in usa, but there is important difference : no one will bring bootleg jeans to it, and no one will get out, beca
9cd0272a4e75bd2a…4e7d4fed…2023-07-14 16:31:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028246 << e.g.
1846587e9cd0272a…4e75bd2a…2023-07-14 16:31:45 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 phf: there's a handful of famous (second hand, i've never pursued, but "everyone knows") of some loud mouth hodl personality get robbed at gun point for coins
f6b5c67c9cd0272a…b34ebd33…2023-07-14 16:33:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 12:01:39 billymg: other than maybe now you've got a target on your back, from lizards who "that's too much for a pleb to have" to your jealous neighbors whose bags weren't packed
43dd46471846587e…9cd0272a…2023-07-14 16:33:52 asciilifeform 13y in, sumwhat surprised by the relative rarity of rectothermal mining. evidently there aint so many folx with the 2 req'd skill sets overlapping, outside of the usg dungeons
bc1f935243dd4647…43dd4647…2023-07-14 16:36:25 <asciilifeform> even usg mostly favours the german algo -- is over9000x cheaper, given as can be applied to arbitrary mass, rather than requiring individual 'treatment'
d40817f5bc1f9352…1846587e…2023-07-14 16:36:25 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: i.e. the german j00 gold extraction algo.
560df844d40817f5…5b2627e4…2023-07-14 16:36:22 <signpost> yeah, this one doesn't worry me more or less than random thug breaking in for the TV.
17eaad67224086ca…224086ca…2023-07-14 16:36:48 <signpost> or doesn't, depending. doesn't change the odds on it.
d508af2d17eaad67…bc1f9352…2023-07-14 16:38:23 <asciilifeform> to spell it out: the reich is counting on hodlers to sell, 'entirely voluntarily', from penury, from panic, from 'looxy, it's 100k!111 aint that enuff', etc
88a137b3d508af2d…d508af2d…2023-07-14 16:38:52 <asciilifeform> over9000 simpler, and nobody has to stare down shotgun
4f35057e88a137b3…88a137b3…2023-07-14 16:43:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028254 << perhaps lulzily, the very reason bitcoin is still interesting imho is precisely that it's successfully fended off all attempts -- by anyone whatsoever -- to create such a 'kissing ring'
04b2b5694f35057e…d40817f5…2023-07-14 16:43:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 asciilifeform: re upstack , imho important q for any participant to answer ~for himself~, 'does bitcoin work? what does it mean for it to work?' (see also e.g.)
6b9e0c024f35057e…f6b5c67c…2023-07-14 16:45:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 12:13:27 signpost: except sadly the coming to timisoara to kiss the ring.
ad2dba1a6b9e0c02…17eaad67…2023-07-14 16:45:11 <signpost> kinda what I was bemused at. larry fink et al being perhaps the next ones so thwarted.
7a29a066ad2dba1a…4f35057e…2023-07-14 16:45:58 asciilifeform strongly suspects that buncha more prospective 'ringwraiths' will have to drink to death, drown, etc. before the lesson is learned (if ever at all learned, lol)
d5b1e7837a29a066…7a29a066…2023-07-14 16:46:55 <asciilifeform> nobody needs ringwraiths, just like nobody needs lice
f15d1438d5b1e783…04b2b569…2023-07-14 16:46:56 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-18#1046538 << 'hey, i know what we were missing: a dowager empress' said afaik nobody anywhere
227479a0f15d1438…d5b1e783…2023-07-14 16:48:05 <asciilifeform> let'em have pissing contests with the ocean, wainot.
8a110c3e227479a0…ad2dba1a…2023-07-14 16:49:01 <signpost> makes one almost hopeful, that nature itself may be ordered such that humans emit sane culture when in the presence of an object such as bitcoin.
922428043c5a4422…227479a0…2023-07-14 16:50:40 <asciilifeform> poseidon happily takes in the persistently insane. (not always as fast as one'd like, but he aint in any hurry)
35f040707aeed365…92242804…2023-07-14 16:53:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-14#1028226 << asciilifeform ftr not convinced there's anyffin to be gained by paying any attention to who is pumping wat on normie-tv
345365e635f04070…f15d1438…2023-07-14 16:53:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-14 asciilifeform: for folx who believe they can infer , from public givens, when a pyramid is to fall -- there is ~inf dough
202d09eb35f04070…6b9e0c02…2023-07-14 16:55:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-14 11:44:37 signpost: is very fucking suspicious of the CEO of blackrock suddenly being a bitcoin evangelist on normie TV.
15c5c0b4202d09eb…35f04070…2023-07-14 16:54:04 <asciilifeform> it aint even a good 'sell!111' signal (as nobody but the perp has any idea when 'hour x' is to be)
06e910bc15c5c0b4…15c5c0b4…2023-07-14 16:54:43 <asciilifeform> 'if yer reading it, it's for you'(tm)(r)(tlp)
e655e49706e910bc…06e910bc…2023-07-14 16:56:32 <asciilifeform> ...if yer trading on a signal straightforwardly inferred from public givens, yer walking into the mousetrap.
6f008543e655e497…a055c9f5…2023-07-14 17:41:39 <billymg> signpost: is your new node showing up here yet? http://bitdash.io/nodes/?status=any&user_agent=therealbitcoin.org
42986a336f008543…3c5a4422…2023-07-14 17:58:13 <signpost> hm, actually no, and logs don't have any incoming connections.
c7298aed42986a33…42986a33…2023-07-14 18:00:34 <signpost> I wonder if the damned ISP is interfering. port's open but reports as filtered from external nmap.
2c1d41cf0e33476e…0e33476e…2023-07-14 18:07:21 asciilifeform in erry case to date, found that it was the nat, rather than upstream
7865b7cc3b6ce52a…3b6ce52a…2023-07-14 18:22:21 <signpost> fff iptables parameters in wrong order. fixed.
5ed7b8aa7865b7cc…7865b7cc…2023-07-14 18:23:26 <signpost> ty billymg for asking, and asciilifeform for reality check
4027bcea5ed7b8aa…7aeed365…2023-07-14 18:39:40 <awt_akris> Color coded timestamps to indicate immediate vs. hearsay: https://imgur.com/a/5Xx8Rba
eb1fba074027bcea…2c1d41cf…2023-07-14 18:42:31 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: nifty. ( idea: wainot display [][] linx www-style, i.e. show only the caption but orig. link on mouseover )
9cd8836eeb1fba07…4027bcea…2023-07-14 18:43:14 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: I've made a few attempts, but my regex foo failed me. Will try again.
242d187e9cd8836e…eb1fba07…2023-07-14 18:43:26 <asciilifeform> awt: see if can crib the 1 from logotron
7ea56ae0242d187e…9cd8836e…2023-07-14 18:44:43 <awt_akris> Had one semi-working but discovered it only substituted *first* link in the message. Not hard to fix.
cccf1398b64ac3b6…b64ac3b6…2023-07-14 18:53:05 <signpost> man this is uniquely horrible for proximity to op chars
2748a811db05ec4f…db05ec4f…2023-07-14 18:54:06 <signpost> stab at ungreedy anything but the delimiters inside the delimiters
b44864352748a811…7ea56ae0…2023-07-14 18:54:28 <awt_akris> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=r2TX << this seems to work, but not sure yet how to iterate over each [][] in a message.
f0ae2f8eb4486435…2748a811…2023-07-14 18:54:48 <signpost> isn't there a `matches` method in python, or search? something like that.
defe58aff0ae2f8e…f0ae2f8e…2023-07-14 18:55:39 <signpost> awt_akris: I think yours will eat a stray [ or ] earlier or later than the link
d4dabdda0748c13f…b4486435…2023-07-14 18:56:51 <awt_akris> signpost: upstream, re.finditer() may do the trick.
200f0f53d4dabdda…0748c13f…2023-07-14 18:56:46 <signpost> seems like the distinction is whether ya want malformed links to be apparent before or after you click.
6ab6ec01200f0f53…200f0f53…2023-07-14 18:57:17 <signpost> p sure mine puts the breakage outside the link since it excludes the delimiter.
11cda921afc8a11f…afc8a11f…2023-07-15 04:59:36 <awt_akris> Still need to implement it for multiline messages though.
26bd9576eb1edf6a…eb1edf6a…2023-07-15 19:32:58 <awt_akris> I think for now for the clock skew problem I'll issue an error in the console when the operator attempts to send a message with a timestamp earlier than the timestamp of the current tip of the netchain.
9c7064ed26bd9576…6ab6ec01…2023-07-16 13:17:52 <signpost> looks like muh trb node took just under 2mos to sync
cdad9cca9c7064ed…9c7064ed…2023-07-16 13:18:51 <signpost> recent ryzen, beefy m2 ssds, ddr5, decent box.
185201a6cdad9cca…cdad9cca…2023-07-16 13:19:40 <signpost> I departed from tradition in a few ways. I did end up snipping out malleus, as I'm suspicious that it bans just about all prb these days, rather than just thin nodes, or whatever they were called, spv
6f99ea10185201a6…185201a6…2023-07-16 13:20:04 <signpost> trbism does not rule the bitcoin network, so I don't think it's worth it anymore to try and detach from all nodes that issue an unknown command.
b53a5f206f99ea10…6f99ea10…2023-07-16 13:20:10 <signpost> I just went back to silently ignoring them.
a65f34ffb53a5f20…b53a5f20…2023-07-16 13:21:01 <signpost> I also set the version to 0.5.3, and that seemed to increase sync rate.
f842dc22a65f34ff…a65f34ff…2023-07-16 13:21:35 <signpost> this node also had my wallet snip patch, but I doubt that improved performance, just cleaned up the code.
80d3d2baf842dc22…f842dc22…2023-07-16 13:21:47 <signpost> also snipped out anything to do with tx handling during sync.
029171d480d3d2ba…80d3d2ba…2023-07-16 13:22:12 signpost has often seen a syncing node get lost trying to connect transactions it has no business handling until chain's topped up.
cd375b58029171d4…029171d4…2023-07-16 13:22:25 <signpost> not doing hard science over here; just some observations
fc48b2b2cd375b58…cd375b58…2023-07-16 13:25:09 <signpost> baking flags such that these (aside wallet, which I have never used nor want) can be flipped on and off probably wouldn't hurt so it could be understood better.
9bd6a017fc48b2b2…fc48b2b2…2023-07-16 13:29:59 <signpost> asciilifeform: do you still want to keep cement out of "mainline" trb
0e689f4e9bd6a017…345365e6…2023-07-16 13:30:10 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-19 asciilifeform: but asciilifeform would rather leave the decision of 'cement or not' to indiv. operator, rather than try to make it hardcoded piece of trb.
77bf8b670e689f4e…9bd6a017…2023-07-16 13:30:11 <signpost> or did I misunderstand? iirc still marked draft on your blog
5e140ae6e93e32b4…77bf8b67…2023-07-16 16:20:32 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028350 << maybe this can be narrowed to commands which specifically indicate a parasite pseudonode, vs a full node issuing prbisms
e4e76d835e140ae6…202d09eb…2023-07-16 16:22:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:21:29 signpost: I departed from tradition in a few ways. I did end up snipping out malleus, as I'm suspicious that it bans just about all prb these days, rather than just thin nodes, or whatever they were called, spv
05368342e4e76d83…242d187e…2023-07-16 19:49:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028348 << was this all-natural sync or w/ cement ?
04e30dc405368342…e4e76d83…2023-07-16 19:51:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:19:42 signpost: looks like muh trb node took just under 2mos to sync
2d52b3c404e30dc4…05368342…2023-07-16 19:50:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028350 << iirc a # of folx did this (incl. asciilifeform , who not found a significant effect), prolly it oghta be a flag
f00a583a2d52b3c4…04e30dc4…2023-07-16 19:51:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:21:29 signpost: I departed from tradition in a few ways. I did end up snipping out malleus, as I'm suspicious that it bans just about all prb these days, rather than just thin nodes, or whatever they were called, spv
266f81c0f00a583a…2d52b3c4…2023-07-16 19:52:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028353 << would be surprising to asciilifeform if this reliably helped ( other than via malleus-like rejection of egregiously useless recent prb peers -- iirc prb after certain version simply drops versions prior to certain # )
e262c43e266f81c0…f00a583a…2023-07-16 19:53:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:22:50 signpost: I also set the version to 0.5.3, and that seemed to increase sync rate.
b6d0fa36e262c43e…5e140ae6…2023-07-16 19:52:41 <signpost> ah, maybe I unmalleus'd in one place, then implicitly re-malleus'd with this.
dd65d5d4b6d0fa36…266f81c0…2023-07-16 19:52:58 <asciilifeform> fwiw per asciilifeform's measurements, virtually all sync time in an all-natural (sans cement) sync is spent waiting pointlessly for sumbody to actually send $next-desired-block
c2cad20cc0bcdb37…c0bcdb37…2023-07-16 19:53:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028359 << asciilifeform is satisfied that it worx ( see cgra's comments tho , could use certain minor cleanups )
f83ac1a3c2cad20c…b6d0fa36…2023-07-16 19:53:45 <signpost> was a non-cement sync, but did -connect= to someone's trb node towards the end. got to about 5-600k before doing this iirc
b4263e88c2cad20c…e262c43e…2023-07-16 19:55:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:31:48 signpost: asciilifeform: do you still want to keep cement out of "mainline" trb
ddec5b0cb4263e88…0e689f4e…2023-07-16 19:53:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-19 asciilifeform: but asciilifeform would rather leave the decision of 'cement or not' to indiv. operator, rather than try to make it hardcoded piece of trb.
4f9155e8ddec5b0c…c2cad20c…2023-07-16 19:56:47 <asciilifeform> ( ftr ~100% of sync time ~with~ cement is spent on verifying blox. which, if one were using cement generated personally, and a trb press known to otherwise work, could safely skip; but asciilifeform was not comfortable encouraging this practice and so not included the requisite toggle in the draft )
6dfda3794f9155e8…4f9155e8…2023-07-16 19:58:03 <asciilifeform> ^ if were going there, would make over9000x moar sense to fetch the cement blox in parallel from as many peers as possible and ~then~ verify'em
378814a86dfda379…6dfda379…2023-07-16 20:01:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-16#1028351 << erry time asciilifeform stands up a noad, is surprised that sync still worx at all , considering the ecology of current net
83ca38cf378814a8…b4263e88…2023-07-16 20:03:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-16 09:21:54 signpost: trbism does not rule the bitcoin network, so I don't think it's worth it anymore to try and detach from all nodes that issue an unknown command.
3da0add383ca38cf…378814a8…2023-07-16 20:04:41 asciilifeform not burns with desire to reopen the hood on trb (barring discovery of catastrophic bugola), as errytime he does so quickly comes to conclusion that what it really needs is a jerry can of gas, a bic, and a sane rewrite
ffc6afe23da0add3…ddec5b0c…2023-07-16 20:04:42 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-10-01 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to
5240ef8effc6afe2…3da0add3…2023-07-16 20:05:15 <asciilifeform> ( sadly asciilifeform not has resources for the latter atm or in foreseeable future )
c957d5c25240ef8e…f83ac1a3…2023-07-16 20:05:09 <signpost> yep, I'm just doing things to it that make it usable for my purposes, like carving a sane txn hole in the side.
a4409a9a5240ef8e…ffc6afe2…2023-07-16 20:05:16 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-10-26 asciilifeform: sadly not had chance to weld 'cryostat' to 'nqb', got into an unspeakably arduous commercial contract soon after publishing the former, and still mired in liquishit
37bb18acad8efbcf…ad8efbcf…2023-07-16 20:07:46 asciilifeform does find the lack of any detectable, with naked eye, commercial interest in a sane bitcoin implementation, rather peculiar
5c238e8537bb18ac…c957d5c2…2023-07-16 20:07:56 <signpost> I wager they're not sharing them, but they exist
b0bccbe85c238e85…37bb18ac…2023-07-16 20:08:19 asciilifeform can only presume that erryone who felt a dire need to such thing, has done it under the blanket and 'silent like partizan'
3a0aa55510c6e98e…e23c4804…2023-07-17 19:38:53 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: would you mind peering awt_akris? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=WcAV
beb0686e3a0aa555…3a0aa555…2023-07-17 19:43:46 <awt_akris> signpost: would you mind peering awt_akris? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=O2Ny
167907f19dd692ca…beb0686e…2023-07-17 19:46:03 <awt_akris> signpost: no need if you have address cast enabled. Just need to add the key.
0a1039dd167907f1…9dd692ca…2023-07-17 19:46:24 <signpost> do I need to turn that on myself? pretty sure I'm on fairly recent blatta
7e1af078bae1c5af…bae1c5af…2023-07-17 19:48:34 <signpost> looks like my interval's every 10min in /knob
1a0cec047e1af078…167907f1…2023-07-17 19:48:49 <awt_akris> signpost: yes - I have address_cast_interval_seconds set to 3600 for my blatta station.
eb59bc4d546ccb21…1a0cec04…2023-07-17 19:55:07 <awt_akris> Darn. I don't have you in my at yet. Lemme figure out what's going on.
58b3a7235165b2fc…8c7067cb…2023-07-17 20:16:51 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: do you have key offers enabled?
21e5a7a03de2f86f…58b3a723…2023-07-17 20:21:24 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: give it a min. I believe you have AC broadcasts switched off. My station will broadcast in the next hour or so.
9e3a918664211a70…21e5a7a0…2023-07-17 20:22:38 <awt_akris> Akris Desktop consistently around 0.1 - 0.2 % CPU at the moment.
4f483fae7c4e1086…64211a70…2023-07-17 20:24:00 <asciilifeform> iirc asciilifeform patched his blatta not to send addrcasts (they were eating ~100% cpu) but oughta still ~receive~ neh
c1254d12f0bf8c8e…b7fb5401…2023-07-17 20:35:22 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: interesting. never seen a packet come through in my log.
8f40b28268af0a21…c1254d12…2023-07-17 20:37:07 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: oh and look at that. I have two keys for you in your wot entry.
b34037bf8f40b282…68af0a21…2023-07-17 20:39:02 <jonsykkel> awt_akris: i acepted ur rekeying 2023-07-17 02:23:32, i guess ur pestron didnt deleet old one
e1eb5472b507dd89…b507dd89…2023-07-17 20:40:41 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: yes I haven't enabled sending offers so makes sense.
f6a357f4e1eb5472…e1eb5472…2023-07-17 20:42:05 <awt_akris> Pretty cool that it just worked. Good spec!
fc6ba239cd8744be…f6a357f4…2023-07-17 20:50:57 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: yeah it's random. likely to happen in 3600s but not guaranteed.
4013f526fc6ba239…fc6ba239…2023-07-17 21:23:15 <awt_akris> Ok I've seen my station broadcast some ACs - but something weird may be going on. Debugging.
b65775324013f526…cd8744be…2023-07-17 23:09:48 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: defo got an addrcast for yer station, and then long sequence of join/parts
6e7f4a0bb6577532…4013f526…2023-07-17 23:38:08 <awt_akris> Weird thing happening with libgpgcrypt - seems to modify the plain text. Attempting to pass in a copy of the plain text seems to result in the original still being modified.
9c67437a6e7f4a0b…b6577532…2023-07-17 23:38:41 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: is that thing used in yer new pestron ? for what ?
f4c2904faeefc264…4ed1bb90…2023-07-17 23:40:31 <asciilifeform> pleasures of c, the 'toilet overran and nao there's shit in the freezer' language, lol
aa4c6e13f4c2904f…f4c2904f…2023-07-17 23:45:26 <asciilifeform> btw still seeing awt_akris as hearsay (after anuther sequence of join/parts, oddly enuff ending with a join, rather than part !)
562180a3aa4c6e13…aeefc264…2023-07-17 23:50:11 <awt_akris> Not sure what's going there exactly other than possibly I've been restarting my station a lot.
bdc07d72562180a3…562180a3…2023-07-18 01:32:41 <awt_akris> Ok actually got jonsykkel's serpent encryption/decryption code working in python.
7a636d2abdc07d72…bdc07d72…2023-07-18 01:35:54 <awt_akris> Here's the test code, fwiw: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=MBPi
008de5da7a636d2a…7a636d2a…2023-07-18 02:59:21 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: I manually added you at the IP and port I have you at on my other station but I'm not seeing a response to PROD messages going to your station.
f2f49933008de5da…0e276328…2023-07-18 04:54:53 <jonsykkel> u gota run serpent_init on the 32byte key to expand it
d8893f34f2f49933…f2f49933…2023-07-18 04:55:06 <jonsykkel> serpent_init(bufer_of_528_bytes,cipher_key,SERPENT_KEYSIZE)
3c5e39d97418391d…008de5da…2023-07-18 05:38:32 <awt_akris> jonsykkel: ty. updated. decrypted using both pure python and c serpent and got the same result.
2e8fe51082dea93f…aa4c6e13…2023-07-18 14:33:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-17#1028453 << strange; yer at entry does periodically update
8da428482e8fe510…83ca38cf…2023-07-18 14:35:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-17 23:01:03 awt_akris[awt|signpost]: asciilifeform: I manually added you at the IP and port I have you at on my other station but I'm not seeing a response to PROD messages going to your station.
366519073158beb9…a0c34109…2023-07-18 14:47:21 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-13#1028647 <<< re: no vpatch for docs, in my previous discussions I wanted to bring out this fact, we are still [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-30#1025
f5da0ae036651907…36651907…2023-07-18 14:47:21 <unpx> 788][dreaming] a minimalistic self-maintained software stack
aa9b2d6136651907…a4409a9a…2023-07-18 14:47:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 14:50:16 asciilifeform: not baked proper vpatch yet for this thing, but will
9ae2cb99aa9b2d61…aa9b2d61…2023-07-18 14:47:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-09 12:43:19 unpx[asciilifeform]: So I guess we are all in a UNIX-like system because it is the most hackable we can have right now without becomeing a system programmer
2d07473d9ae2cb99…9ae2cb99…2023-07-18 14:47:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-06 19:06:02 unpx[asciilifeform]: Or at least guide people so they can write they own tools to do all of that the way they want
a712b2d7480fa912…480fa912…2023-07-18 14:51:35 <unpx> [...] we are still dreaming a minimalistic self-maintained software stack.
b76880b3a712b2d7…2d07473d…2023-07-18 14:55:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-30 16:44:45 unpx[asciilifeform]: PeterL, asciilifeform: indeed, but what then? I may have a comfy machine for working and then a machine for specific bank/gov stuff, but then what would you have in that work machine? wget, lynx port, Konqueror, Pale Moon? Or would you reduce documents to TXT and forget HT
502049b5b76880b3…3158beb9…2023-07-18 15:39:57 <asciilifeform> unpx: 'if wishes were horses' then neither lynx, nor konkeror, etc. but rather sumthing entirely new and bolixlike, with buncha modular, reusable routines rather than standalone 'apps'
3cc1bb099983fc33…9983fc33…2023-07-18 16:04:55 <unpx> Moreover, I'm still looking for such a design solution that manages both documentation and code and tie the two together
cf9b5d023cc1bb09…b76880b3…2023-07-18 16:04:57 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-05-18 16:37:31 unpx[asciilifeform]: But I cannot see tools that care about both, they are more about the phase one rather then the phase two.
8a2f117480049d3c…3cc1bb09…2023-07-18 16:46:56 <unpx> I cannot find the discussion about connecting pdf documents to vpatches, signpost
1c98b9f48a2f1174…502049b5…2023-07-18 16:47:39 <asciilifeform> unpx: vpatches are intended to (borrowing the gpl folxs' terminology) concern 'the form of the document preferred for modification'
05c3305f1c98b9f4…1c98b9f4…2023-07-18 16:47:55 <asciilifeform> so, not pdf, but e.g. its latex src, for instance
5ec4744c05c3305f…80049d3c…2023-07-18 16:49:25 <signpost> yeah, same goes for codegen like the automake cruft currently preserved on pentacle's dissection table.
de6279b95ec4744c…8a2f1174…2023-07-18 16:49:51 <unpx> Yeah, but I recall a discussion where a certain vpatch was mapped to a certain documentation version
66e93f36de6279b9…5ec4744c…2023-07-18 16:50:07 <signpost> generated srcs should in principle not be in there either.
024a86f354d1d980…d3d2cf1e…2023-07-18 16:50:55 <signpost> leaving aside for a moment that if you need codegen you're probably already in a bad place.
36e2fb257ed2aa3c…cf9b5d02…2023-07-18 17:03:29 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-25 21:46:41 jonsykkel[asciilifeform]: example http://zzz.st/up/olNWGD1z/example.png
9c4eeab9e6362fd2…3c5e39d9…2023-07-18 17:51:10 <awt_akris> Alright now running with jonsykkel's serpent (calling it c_serpent). CPU usage looking good.
ba2e86969c4eeab9…9c4eeab9…2023-07-18 17:54:50 <awt_akris> Also flushing the toilet is not resulting in poo in the freezer.
dfec185f5fe546d3…5fe546d3…2023-07-18 17:56:24 asciilifeform still puzzled wai direct peering not worx. given that some packets are getting through
0ff4835adfec185f…ba2e8696…2023-07-18 18:00:28 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: this is the prod I'm sending you that's not getting a reply: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=nr9x
d9e3c1850ff4835a…dfec185f…2023-07-18 18:01:28 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: indeed not appears in log here
fc179665d9e3c185…0ff4835a…2023-07-18 18:02:18 <awt_akris> I am behind a nat here, but everyone else is replying so maybe not my nat.
86c85bdcd9e3c185…d9e3c185…2023-07-18 18:02:20 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: hmm wai same ip ( asciilifeform's) on both sides of the quoted line ?
db9047eafc179665…86c85bdc…2023-07-18 18:02:48 <asciilifeform> did log notation change from blatta's ?
f474a5a7db9047ea…024a86f3…2023-07-18 18:02:40 <signpost> lol, think how quickly you can unpack the groceries when you line 'em up JUST SO
30dcfa612d10963c…fc179665…2023-07-18 18:03:40 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: first IP is the address the prod is being sent to. second IP is the last known address of the intended recipient.
8d26136bca4d7eb6…30dcfa61…2023-07-18 18:06:19 <awt_akris> signpost: not sure which struct you're referring to. Desperately want to get the joke.
d05fcc788d26136b…8d26136b…2023-07-18 18:08:51 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: double checked the key and seems right. On blatta, it is possible to accidentally add spaces to the key when entering it.
c45fd6e6d05fcc78…ca4d7eb6…2023-07-18 18:09:39 <asciilifeform> key defo right (or wouldn't be seeing at updates here, neh)
a20ac581db1b0f48…28fa572a…2023-07-18 18:10:05 <signpost> awt_akris: it's common to point a struct pointer directly at where you recv'd a packet to chunk into fields
d340a4aaa20ac581…a20ac581…2023-07-18 18:10:20 <signpost> making a joke about how this goes wrong with field misalignment
247ac3063fa578e6…3fa578e6…2023-07-18 18:14:41 <awt_akris> signpost: speaking of impaling cats, should be a lot easier to integrate ocpy now that I've got a working example going with c_serpent.
ad7fd8ef247ac306…22d43445…2023-07-18 18:14:56 <signpost> turd's pretty slow still, but it's a starting point
1d4bbdeaf8592b36…f8592b36…2023-07-18 18:15:30 <signpost> still might be worthwhile to try the thing out with ocpy
4eb6e346f8592b36…cfcc5992…2023-07-18 18:15:36 <asciilifeform> will also work a++ in asciilifeform's (sadly stalled atm) cpp pestron, come to think of it
2f279aeaf8592b36…247ac306…2023-07-18 18:15:36 <awt_akris> signpost: sorry I was referring to the c version. Can't remember what it's called.
1fdf782d027872dc…71fed69a…2023-07-18 18:16:23 signpost did some work on it yesterday evening, probably not too far off
506d12911fdf782d…e6362fd2…2023-07-18 20:06:04 unpx doesn't know if asciilifeform and signpost understood what I did mean here by ``manages both documentation and code'' http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-18#1028928
f91cadce506d1291…36e2fb25…2023-07-18 20:06:06 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-18 13:03:29 unpx[asciilifeform]: aye, it was jonsykkel
6204cab1f91cadce…027872dc…2023-07-18 20:08:12 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: which is better? Annoy operators whose clock has drifted back, or use the time the message was received at as the timestamp to order messages by when displaying them? Or something else?
4eefdc386204cab1…506d1291…2023-07-18 20:08:40 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-18#1028926 <<< w/o proper tools to render it, markdown is not worth `compiling' to html, since you then need a browser
44bceee74eefdc38…f91cadce…2023-07-18 20:08:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-18 12:55:57 unpx[asciilifeform]: >markdown docs
deb06dc62c48188c…2c48188c…2023-07-18 20:10:36 <awt_akris> I'm finding frequent instances of out of sync clocks and it does disrupt log reading during a hot thread.
8995146cdeb06dc6…1fdf782d…2023-07-18 20:30:11 <signpost> why not order by netchain with a recursive query? (leaving aside indexing or w/e to speed up, might not be needed)
dd1f03c08995146c…8995146c…2023-07-18 20:31:02 <signpost> imho the ordering I care about is the one the speaker intended, resolving ties in w/e sensible way.
998df485dd1f03c0…deb06dc6…2023-07-18 20:37:51 <awt_akris> signpost: the goal is ultimately to order by netchain - currently blatta's handling of netchain is unspeakably broken, so until we have a reliably contiguous netchain, gotta order by timestamp...
f6d839ab998df485…998df485…2023-07-18 20:38:01 <awt_akris> With what I have right now, I could attempt to use netchain as a heuristic when timestamp < netchain tip's timestamp. Even so, the spec disallows such messages - technically akris should be discarding them.
171e10bbc0d5b60b…4eb6e346…2023-07-18 21:47:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-18#1028527 << track the deltas (while warning operator) and estimate 'troo' time by weighted pull of peers with historically low drift.
ab5dfe47171e10bb…8da42848…2023-07-18 21:49:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-18 16:09:56 awt_akris[awt|signpost]: asciilifeform: which is better? Annoy operators whose clock has drifted back, or use the time the message was received at as the timestamp to order messages by when displaying them? Or something else?
d5c554e1ab5dfe47…171e10bb…2023-07-18 21:48:45 <asciilifeform> ( if they're all drifting by a ~constant, the br0ken 1 is.. you )
4a59062dd5c554e1…d5c554e1…2023-07-18 21:49:24 <asciilifeform> the original conceit, however, was that pestrons only need to be 'city tower bell' accurate (i.e. +/- 15m) to work reliably.
3d0bead522860814…22860814…2023-07-18 21:50:04 <asciilifeform> 'worx 100% with sundial time' was explicit goal of asciilifeform's orig design.
e7dea2983d0bead5…3d0bead5…2023-07-18 21:50:50 <asciilifeform> sundial being the only apolitical clock avail. on planet3.
80112575e7dea298…c0d5b60b…2023-07-18 22:02:49 signpost has long wanted to do an optical clock which recalibrates using the night sky
410eb96880112575…f6d839ab…2023-07-18 22:05:09 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-18#1028539 << On this pestnet, this heuristic could turn out to be an "insanity check"
af971c02410eb968…ab5dfe47…2023-07-18 22:06:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-18 17:50:28 asciilifeform[5]: ( if they're all drifting by a ~constant, the br0ken 1 is.. you )
66618023af971c02…410eb968…2023-07-18 22:07:09 <awt_akris> asciilifeform's clock consistently matches my own, fwiw.
ba56046466618023…e7dea298…2023-07-19 00:02:50 <asciilifeform> iirc mine synced from router which syncs from isp which from hitler
6f84c914ba560464…66618023…2023-07-19 01:38:28 <awt_akris> Testing out using recieved_at - "worx" but would not work well during initial sync when received at could be years off from the packet timestamp.
aaa1ddd06f84c914…6f84c914…2023-07-19 01:41:35 <awt_akris> Testing out using recieved_at - "worx" but would not work well during initial sync when received at could be years off from the packet timestamp.
f25a5035aaa1ddd0…aaa1ddd0…2023-07-19 01:54:29 <awt_akris> Not a dupe ^ an exception was preventing the message from displaying and I sent it twice.
2cefa3fbf25a5035…f25a5035…2023-07-19 02:23:12 <awt_akris> nm can just use originator timestamp for getdata responses.
809bfc815126337e…ba560464…2023-07-19 15:13:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-18#1028535 << asciilifeform's notion was concretely that nobody gets to bake new packet 'in the past' ftr
4775fb73809bfc81…af971c02…2023-07-19 15:15:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-18 16:39:44 awt_akris[awt|signpost]: With what I have right now, I could attempt to use netchain as a heuristic when timestamp < netchain tip's timestamp. Even so, the spec disallows such messages - technically akris should be discarding them.
ccc487e2893c9d5a…893c9d5a…2023-07-19 15:15:00 <asciilifeform> but the proposed rule not actually guarantees this afaik
c92991a1ccc487e2…ccc487e2…2023-07-19 15:16:30 <asciilifeform> ( does force reasonably monotonic timestamps tho, which is imho a win )
a9706cf3a599a672…42bfe15d…2023-07-20 13:19:37 <awt_akris> Anyone know any amd linux laptops that can do 4k?
bb7503d2a9706cf3…80112575…2023-07-20 14:22:44 <signpost> if you find a respectable amd linux laptop, I'd be all ears
3b526182511e0fc2…511e0fc2…2023-07-20 14:23:15 <signpost> recently found that the damned LCDs are held in by a *sticker*
701af8853b526182…3b526182…2023-07-20 14:23:53 <signpost> been driving the pinebook more actually. at least priced as disposable as they are, and pretty sturdy tbh
a8a9a7c0701af885…a9706cf3…2023-07-20 14:32:22 <awt_akris> signpost: not sure exactly what respectable means. Been using a pangolin for a while now.
cad1e22e02a1b38b…02a1b38b…2023-07-20 14:33:24 <signpost> btw another option for laptop driving big screen(s) would be an egpu
00101a22cad1e22e…cad1e22e…2023-07-20 14:33:44 <signpost> I've got one of the stock trader multi-screen 2d cards plugged in atm
07c6a03dcad1e22e…a8a9a7c0…2023-07-20 14:33:53 <awt_akris> signpost: doesn't feel as sturdy as a lenovo, but it's still in good shape after a significant amount of traveling.
cdc60dc707c6a03d…c92991a1…2023-07-20 14:34:07 <asciilifeform> signpost: what's running on the pinebook? ( asciilifeform still has his, collecting dust, with the stock shitlinux it runs with speed and reliability of overheated 486dx )
748764320a79609a…cdc60dc7…2023-07-20 14:35:17 <asciilifeform> signpost: the 'official' one, with systemd etc ?
d8716e1f74876432…0a79609a…2023-07-20 14:35:36 <signpost> nah, the other one with the limbs sawed off systemd and sadly affixed to openrc
a5d54a402a56f686…74876432…2023-07-20 14:37:57 asciilifeform has ridiculous pile of lappies, but not uses'em much these days, not often goes out of house for long enuff to need lappy
5db791f2a5d54a40…07c6a03d…2023-07-20 14:39:21 <awt_akris> signpost: I will look into egpus. iirc they can be finicky.
b8153ecf5db791f2…2a56f686…2023-07-20 14:41:01 <signpost> I have a "razer core x" which has worked well with a visiontek 7750 inside with a recent linux kernel
f384dabbb8153ecf…5db791f2…2023-07-20 14:41:27 <awt_akris> One thing I like about any laptop that is not a macbook is - the battery doesn't swell and damage the trackpad.
85c58e5ef384dabb…a5d54a40…2023-07-20 14:41:43 asciilifeform recalls phf's tests of a linuxism on crapple arm lappy, wonders whether anyone finally reversed the iron enuff to get practical portability (e.g. suspend mode)
670333901e02f375…85c58e5e…2023-07-20 14:42:38 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: asciilifeform found that one had best replace crapple batteries prophylactically, before they start to outgas
1ef216c467033390…67033390…2023-07-20 14:43:21 <asciilifeform> ^ 2-3 yrs after purchase for crapple's, 1-2 for chinesium aftermarket units
add6ac5e1ef216c4…f384dabb…2023-07-20 14:43:41 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: crapple battery replacement can be done at home?
d77aa7cdadd6ac5e…1ef216c4…2023-07-20 14:43:51 <asciilifeform> this was for x86 crapples tho, which 'fry eggs' -- possibly the arm boxes bake'em slower
9241a56cd77aa7cd…1e02f375…2023-07-20 14:44:10 <signpost> yep, this kind of thing has me trying to rely more on the trashputer lappies as a disposable terminal into my big box
b53e88c59241a56c…d77aa7cd…2023-07-20 14:44:21 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: it's a pain but yes ( naodays folx sell kits, complete with spudger and solvents for dissolving the hot glue )
11f5a0ad91610c99…9241a56c…2023-07-20 14:44:54 <signpost> arm stays pretty damn cool, had one for the recent project
8451633e06b2e941…91610c99…2023-07-20 14:46:10 <awt_akris> signpost: which did you manage to boot up?
010b9aaf6e40d171…6e40d171…2023-07-20 14:46:56 signpost has run llama.cpp on the ryzen box tho, underwhelming
22b42973010b9aaf…06b2e941…2023-07-20 14:47:22 asciilifeform sufficiently impressed by crapple 'm2' that recently ordered a stationary crapple 'ultra' for experiments (not came in yet, seems they hand-solder'em or sumthing, takes weeks)
953b37a622b42973…44bceee7…2023-07-20 14:47:23 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-18 11:56:21 asciilifeform: phf: i've a '$maxint' 'threadripper' in there, and the m2 el cheapo in fact beats the shit outta it
55629005953b37a6…4775fb73…2023-07-20 14:49:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-23 13:38:50 asciilifeform[5]: phf: for comparison: 2m 49s on 'threadripper' 3960X.
4b39c87d55629005…55629005…2023-07-20 14:49:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-17 13:04:01 asciilifeform[4]: ( tho, interestingly, that thing is in fact the fastest (single-threaded, at any rate) box in asciilifeform's torture room, lol
f7ef875a4b39c87d…010b9aaf…2023-07-20 14:47:36 <signpost> asciilifeform: possibly AI-bros eating these up?
f75b96c04b39c87d…cd68972e…2023-07-20 14:49:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-20#1028598 << what were you feeding it ?
d2c724cbf7ef875a…22b42973…2023-07-20 14:48:10 <asciilifeform> signpost: would be odd if so, they aint afaik the most 'bang for $' gptism box
57331491f75b96c0…4b39c87d…2023-07-20 14:51:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 10:48:45 signpost: has run llama.cpp on the ryzen box tho, underwhelming
32a7534857331491…f75b96c0…2023-07-20 14:50:06 asciilifeform considered to try 1 of these but not come up with a practical use, lol
c41e42bb5c525975…f7ef875a…2023-07-20 14:50:12 <signpost> 65B quantized to int4 with buncha layers offloaded to nvidia 3090
55580cacc41e42bb…c41e42bb…2023-07-20 14:50:33 <signpost> yeah, I was fiddling with it for some autosummary and classifier experiments
e71b719eb5e15169…241d7313…2023-07-20 14:51:35 <asciilifeform> iirc if you want to train the thing (vs running vendor's model) need 30kW worth of gpu
41075eafe71b719e…b5e15169…2023-07-20 14:51:56 <signpost> yeah, maybe on the far side of the halving I pick up two of the nvidia megacards
aeb5d97114a23b29…41075eaf…2023-07-20 14:52:09 <signpost> thing gets way "smarter" if you don't quantize, of course
6c105c9bd719eb55…d719eb55…2023-07-20 14:53:32 <signpost> meta just released an updated set of weights for free for commercial use under 700mil daily active users, so effectively free for anybody not their size.
ae8f200b6d65c4fb…14a23b29…2023-07-20 14:54:20 <asciilifeform> signpost: that's simply generic 'chatbot' neh
11278fd6ae8f200b…6d65c4fb…2023-07-20 14:54:27 <signpost> they had weights fine tuned for chat, and not
3e3f7cc9ae8f200b…ae8f200b…2023-07-20 14:54:35 <asciilifeform> ( rather than application-specific one )
f354abc211278fd6…3e3f7cc9…2023-07-20 14:55:42 asciilifeform does have a hypothetical application in mind for gptism, but is rather long shot ( 'smarter phuctor' )
46d4313d1aee4730…f354abc2…2023-07-20 14:56:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: look for 'anomalous' pubkeys
0e4166a7c4a77b13…c4a77b13…2023-07-20 14:59:25 <asciilifeform> for that matter, might be interesting to see whether a nn can cough up some % of bits of priv given a pub (for whatever cryptosystem). long shot but consider how simple to generate training set
2205cedfc4a77b13…953b37a6…2023-07-20 14:59:26 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-06-21 14:05:51 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in recent boobytrap lulz.
dc1202482205cedf…1aee4730…2023-07-20 15:00:01 <signpost> does seem like a problem of the right shape for the things.
d335b9ce83af3f29…0e4166a7…2023-07-20 15:00:31 <asciilifeform> anuther obvious lul would be to feed it various lolrngs (e.g. microshit's) and see whether uncovers their lol
3ec2ad89d335b9ce…d335b9ce…2023-07-20 15:01:49 asciilifeform not labouring under the notion that he's the 1st to think of these, but afaik to date nobody's confessed publicly
c55f699d3ec2ad89…3ec2ad89…2023-07-20 15:03:58 asciilifeform would be surprised if nobody's using these to e.g. search for shortcuts in sha2(sha2(..)) etc
4051119ec55f699d…c55f699d…2023-07-20 15:05:28 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: unrelatedly, definitely seeing at updates (and join/parts) from you but still hearsay msgs somehow
d80961b09e6137b5…4051119e…2023-07-20 15:06:40 <asciilifeform> seeing e.g. awt_akris[jonsykkel|awt|signpost]
c59636ebd80961b0…9e6137b5…2023-07-20 15:07:12 <awt_akris> I'm not getting anything directly from you.
022b1c3dc59636eb…d80961b0…2023-07-20 15:07:56 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: the odd thing is that at (at least sporadically) refreshed (would expect on yer end similarly)
122ce78a022b1c3d…c59636eb…2023-07-20 15:08:11 <awt_akris> If you're seeing joins, you must be getting ignores.
bdee11d8ab46c33a…122ce78a…2023-07-20 15:09:20 <awt_akris> my station has not received a single packet from yours, according to AT.
9d77cf406ed94998…f8a7382f…2023-07-20 17:39:40 <awt_akris> Gonna implement basic log search in the console, then hopefully put out a genesis patch.
989e625f9d77cf40…80aca172…2023-07-20 17:42:15 <signpost> congrats awt_akris; excited to try this out.
bd31db1c9089744d…6ed94998…2023-07-20 18:08:16 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: neato. looking fwd to testing
de077f04bd31db1c…9089744d…2023-07-20 19:13:01 <awt_akris> Sometimes I get the feeling some kind of meteor struck in '20/'21 and I'm just sort of collecting pieces of corrugated tin to cover the entrance to the metaphorical hole I live in online now. Wasn't just #trilema - pretty wide impact zone. Dunno what to call this event - "covid" isn't sufficient. Personally fine, etc.
5f73c725de077f04…de077f04…2023-07-20 19:13:01 <awt_akris> Just a weird "coincidence" of events. Something is gone. Possibly won't understand all implications for a decade.
d5f89040250d4968…19ae9b6f…2023-07-20 19:17:13 <signpost> and asciilifeform's observation that never before was man hobbled with such effort, at such scale, etc
06deb838d5f89040…38633adb…2023-07-20 19:17:48 <asciilifeform> hobbling tech is the ~only tech that's still movin' along
52533b453affd26d…250d4968…2023-07-20 19:18:38 <awt_akris> Perhaps the first truly global darkening - First wave of Communism was only like 50%.
2421495252533b45…3affd26d…2023-07-20 19:19:02 <signpost> now can, so must, to continue to paraphrase asciilifeform
671e1c1b24214952…06deb838…2023-07-20 19:20:08 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: collapse proceeds monotonically, but squeezes by the elite (i.e. 'milk the cow more, feed it less') tend to appear as discrete events. 1971, 2001, 2008, 2020
0ad4311d671e1c1b…2205cedf…2023-07-20 19:20:08 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-27 asciilifeform: PeterL: both come from same root -- lizards' desire to keep their yachts, palaces, and cocaine despite a collapsing support base. i.e. same thing that happened in e.g. argentina. (or 1700s fr. for that matter. and plenty of other places.)
b88845f00ad4311d…671e1c1b…2023-07-20 19:20:39 <asciilifeform> 1991 was an orc-only squeeze but along same lines
c36dd07ab88845f0…b88845f0…2023-07-20 19:20:53 <asciilifeform> ( 'civilized west' bought itself 20y of reprieve by plundering su )
792fc007c36dd07a…c36dd07a…2023-07-20 19:24:10 <asciilifeform> atm (well rather since '14) lizards trying to carry out anuther '1991'
ca3a3870340c6bc4…340c6bc4…2023-07-20 19:25:15 <asciilifeform> and naturally will try 'anuther 1989' in cn, given comical failure of last 1, but long shot
ca018eb8ca3a3870…ca3a3870…2023-07-20 19:25:46 <asciilifeform> reich can only live by eating 'untermenschen' and this aint much of a seekrit.
87eabaffca018eb8…24214952…2023-07-20 19:25:57 <signpost> plenty of own to munch on, and cheaper than munching abroad.
b89f545e5603d097…87eabaff…2023-07-20 19:29:40 <signpost> texas probably isn't that far off from shat. literal millions of southern border crossings.
cf349795b89f545e…52533b45…2023-07-20 19:35:39 <awt_akris> Had been itching to relocate to texas and/or florida but couldn't pull it off. Now not so sure.
d9b91c8433a812cc…23e18f50…2023-07-20 19:37:08 <awt_akris> It's just I'm already living in 3 different places. 5 is over the top.
f04208cfd9b91c84…33a812cc…2023-07-20 19:37:02 <signpost> I still like Texas a lot, but will probably end up in the NH woods in next 1-2yr
f27c22caf04208cf…f04208cf…2023-07-20 19:37:31 <signpost> awt_akris: wife veto'd decking out an airstream and dragging it into the desert
96e2e54ff27c22ca…d9b91c84…2023-07-20 19:38:24 <awt_akris> Yes can't get my girl to live in a trailer either.
c13cbe77bda7bfa5…bda7bfa5…2023-07-20 19:39:46 <awt_akris> I know someone who pulled it off. Lived in a trailer with his wife for years before affording a house in OC.
28e251b6c13cbe77…c13cbe77…2023-07-20 19:40:25 <awt_akris> Met a sailing instructor who lived on a boat with his wife.
252435eb28e251b6…28e251b6…2023-07-20 19:41:33 <awt_akris> Lots of government employees living in trailsers these days I guess.
a25329aa252435eb…5603d097…2023-07-20 19:57:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-20#1028678 << will need mini-reactor to power the ac? or how
cca03590a25329aa…57331491…2023-07-20 19:58:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 15:39:21 signpost: awt_akris: wife veto'd decking out an airstream and dragging it into the desert
5467f14bcca03590…a25329aa…2023-07-20 19:58:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-20#1028673 << the differences b/w diff parts of the reich seem rather small to asciilifeform
5b40dd385467f14b…cca03590…2023-07-20 19:59:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 15:37:22 awt_akris[awt|signpost]: Had been itching to relocate to texas and/or florida but couldn't pull it off. Now not so sure.
f72f50f55b40dd38…252435eb…2023-07-20 20:02:27 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: in terms of legal regime - yes - not all that different when summed up. No state income tax but high property tax here - low property tax but high income tax there and so forth. Wyoming is exceptional in this respect but might as well live in Costa Rica in that case if you're going to live an inconvenient
9d7a18434034aab8…5467f14b…2023-07-20 20:02:45 <asciilifeform> there's also the food 'tax' when you live in 'woods'
f03866379d7a1843…9d7a1843…2023-07-20 20:02:54 <asciilifeform> ( assuming yer doing sumthing other than subsistence farming )
33a3b9adf0386637…f0386637…2023-07-20 20:03:31 asciilifeform recalls phf mentioning 'woods' types who gotta fly in plane to civilization to resupply
71f0d3b633a3b9ad…9bdba2bc…2023-07-20 20:05:23 <signpost> I'm a happy guy, but if we lose modernity entirely I'm out, man.
d346900071f0d3b6…4034aab8…2023-07-20 20:05:42 <awt_akris> Yes or heaven forbid you want quality ethnic food. Discovered that thai chilis are not to be found in CR, or heavy cream in most parts.
0a8d513b54415603…fbc49be5…2023-07-20 20:26:49 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-20#1028677 << hit me up if you do end up in NH one day. I'll buy you a beer or beer-equivalent
869a39620a8d513b…5b40dd38…2023-07-20 20:28:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 15:38:54 signpost[jonsykkel|awt]: I still like Texas a lot, but will probably end up in the NH woods in next 1-2yr
4f5cc3f1869a3962…0a8d513b…2023-07-20 20:27:00 lobbes is living in MA these days but sometimes heads into NH wilderness for hikes, etc.
0738ca67bad071b9…33a3b9ad…2023-07-20 21:05:01 <asciilifeform> re: geography -- at this pt asciilifeform sits where he does strictly because the things he wants are either substantially ~moar~ expensive elsewhere (or -- equally unavailable)
1f2661310738ca67…0738ca67…2023-07-20 21:05:31 <asciilifeform> ( or at any rate not worth cost of moving )
99edd3ec1f266131…1f266131…2023-07-20 21:06:38 <asciilifeform> e.g. in $location tax might be coupla % lower, but import duties on iron are fucking ridiculous
ab3826f08d4e0801…00000000…2023-07-21 01:50:38 <awt_akris> Searching for "result" brings up an astonishing number of messages from phf.
27c19692ab3826f0…4eefdc38…2023-07-21 11:40:42 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-20#1029040 << have you seen/tried HoneyComb?
1211b45c27c19692…0ad4311d…2023-07-21 11:40:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 10:47:23 asciilifeform: sufficiently impressed by crapple 'm2' that recently ordered a stationary crapple 'ultra' for experiments (not came in yet, seems they hand-solder'em or sumthing, takes weeks)
4949d862d7a39008…1211b45c…2023-07-21 13:36:27 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-21 09:34:57 unpx[asciilifeform]: testing
1f0096f24949d862…8d4e0801…2023-07-21 14:43:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-21#1028709 << seen, but 0 interest, it seems to be ~= to an rk with 2x the cores but 20x the price
73d04b831f0096f2…869a3962…2023-07-21 14:45:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-21 07:42:25 unpx[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-20#1029040 << have you seen/tried HoneyComb?
3f53141b73d04b83…4949d862…2023-07-21 14:43:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-20 10:47:23 asciilifeform: sufficiently impressed by crapple 'm2' that recently ordered a stationary crapple 'ultra' for experiments (not came in yet, seems they hand-solder'em or sumthing, takes weeks)
bf7074aa3f53141b…1f0096f2…2023-07-21 14:45:25 <asciilifeform> the crapple arm is interesting because appears to have by far juiciest single-core performance of anyffin currently sold, and avail. with adult (up to 192G) ram + decent gpu. naturally not cheap tho
da06b79fbf7074aa…bf7074aa…2023-07-21 14:45:58 <asciilifeform> ( also highest ram bw of anyffin currently sold, on acct of the devil's bargain of soldering it directly to cpu die )
a9142597da06b79f…da06b79f…2023-07-21 14:47:02 <asciilifeform> the biggest downer from asciilifeform's pov is that yer stuck with their idjit os (at least until sumbody gets the video working under a reasonable linux)
3378c76ea9142597…d7a39008…2023-07-21 19:35:09 unpx is currently thinkin about smal computing since can't see reason to have new iron
70603ec83378c76e…3378c76e…2023-07-21 19:35:22 <unpx> Suppose, for example, that two 80-digit1 numbers p and q have been proved prime; ... Suppose further, that the cleaning lady gives p and q by mistake to the garbage collector, but that the product pq is saved. How to recover p and q? It must be felt as a defeat for mathematics that, in these circumstances, the most promisi
f3b8cb3470603ec8…70603ec8…2023-07-21 19:35:22 <unpx> ng approaches are searching the garbage dump and applying mnemo-hypnotic techniques. H. W. Lenstra, Jr. [Len82]
422d69db28ecd9f8…ab3826f0…2023-07-22 01:56:13 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: it's possible that my address casts are reaching you from a different peer, but immediate messages are being dropped somewhere between our stations.
1d3e9475e5d2caac…28ecd9f8…2023-07-22 01:59:12 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: why would my at entry for you update in such a case ?
71b4d2aa2f74b238…1d3e9475…2023-07-22 01:59:36 <asciilifeform> currently : awt_akris [snipped]:1024 2023-07-20
82391aa93a369cbe…3a369cbe…2023-07-22 02:00:26 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: waitasec, the dates on these update other than when an actual packet is received?! (in blatta)
c44392c682391aa9…82391aa9…2023-07-22 02:00:43 asciilifeform assumed that the timestamp corresponds to last msg receipt...
c0e07eab46373645…46373645…2023-07-22 02:02:10 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: no at is updated to the current date at the time the packet arrives, pretty sure.
ef4760bf02ba87fb…02ba87fb…2023-07-22 02:04:15 <awt_akris> afaik my station hasn't broadcast an AC since I re-peered you.
7db6ed0aef4760bf…09feb5f4…2023-07-22 02:04:18 <asciilifeform> for instance i'm able to ping anuther host on that subnet
fa75a47a62fbb963…10710cd8…2023-07-22 02:06:58 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's router deliberately not answers icmp (it dun ping from dulap either)
eabafd94b4731333…fa75a47a…2023-07-22 02:07:26 <asciilifeform> awt_akris's loox to be similarly config'd
4e77ee71a4fe0828…00000000…2023-07-23 17:41:39 <awt> Nice. Got connecting to a remote station from the gui client working.
12fcd44a4e77ee71…4e77ee71…2023-07-23 17:43:12 <awt> Station is a statically compiled binary - nice not to have to set up the build environment on the server.
89e8832f0000000000000000…2023-07-25 10:59:33 <gregorynyssa> This is the Java implementation of Pest.
d23a08e70000000000000000…2023-07-25 12:05:40 <gregorynyssa> awt: Great to hear from you again. Do you have any screenshots of your new program Akris Desktop?
8e49e638d0460a4b…3b189c80…2023-07-25 12:55:43 <signpost> shinohai: didn't you have a pbuild for python pulled together?
70ac07ad0a9f54ed…0a9f54ed…2023-07-25 13:16:43 <signpost> awt: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jplV << how do I get this working?
5d8584bc70ac07ad…d0460a4b…2023-07-25 13:21:10 <awt> signpost: if that .so file doesn't exist, you will need to do pip install -e . from the akris directory to build it.
60bace886b06695d…96f39007…2023-07-25 13:30:20 <awt> lol didn't click play but now I get the reference
4b7ad26b60bace88…6b06695d…2023-07-25 13:32:05 <signpost> seems like desktop wants there to be images in a folder that aren't.
d339e3e74b7ad26b…4b7ad26b…2023-07-25 13:32:59 <signpost> started up regardless, just can't build a singular binwad
3659e5e3d339e3e7…60bace88…2023-07-25 13:34:27 <awt> signpost: yeah - vdiff can't deal with image files. Haven't figured out how to distribute them.
e2703f8f3659e5e3…3659e5e3…2023-07-25 13:35:57 <awt> You need python3.11 to be able to get a static build. You may be missing other deps. Can you post the output?
f3870ec5e2703f8f…d339e3e7…2023-07-25 13:36:07 <signpost> static build worked, but for desktop `make dist` wants those images
690ce372e112fe0e…4327361f…2023-07-25 13:39:29 <signpost> it's chugging together the message history now
91e4a1c7fdf8aec7…dc3b2b80…2023-07-25 14:27:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-24#1028773 << a++! will try it tonight
ca0a0fb391e4a1c7…73d04b83…2023-07-25 14:29:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-24 22:28:51 awt[signpost]: Akris Desktop 99999 and Akris 99999
14290a8dca0a0fb3…91e4a1c7…2023-07-25 14:28:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028775 << wb !
a583a14c14290a8d…ca0a0fb3…2023-07-25 14:29:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 07:01:18 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: This is the Java implementation of Pest.
c2a1d3fb0000000000000000…2023-07-25 15:02:24 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029220 << Thanks.
512458f0c2a1d3fb…58ad90aa…2023-07-25 15:02:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 08:47:17 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: screencast
25912892512458f0…e6def18e…2023-07-25 15:08:29 <awt> gregorynyssa: have you implemented address cast?
5eda1e010000000000000000…2023-07-25 15:11:54 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029260 << Not yet but I have all of the necessary pieces.
3ee3463b5eda1e01…512458f0…2023-07-25 15:11:58 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:08:32 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: have you implemented address cast?
df909b1f3ee3463b…25912892…2023-07-25 15:14:14 <awt> Ah ok. In that case maybe update your port for my station to 54000 - IP should be the same.
287bad930000000000000000…2023-07-25 15:15:30 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029263 << Sadly I no longer have our signing/encrypting key. I will generate another.
14760867287bad93…3ee3463b…2023-07-25 15:15:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:14:17 awt[asciilifeform]: Ah ok. In that case maybe update your port for my station to 54000 - IP should be the same.
9be86b5614760867…14290a8d…2023-07-25 15:29:34 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: oddity while pressing the genesis
a100a2d50000000000000000…2023-07-25 15:30:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029266 << Did you implement V in Ada?
38c33d85a100a2d5…14760867…2023-07-25 15:30:39 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:29:34 asciilifeform: awt_akris: oddity while pressing the genesis
1d0343bf4aca904a…4aca904a…2023-07-25 15:42:14 <awt> asciilifeform: this is how I tested it: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=20t5
7e83c2bbe7d86ee6…e7d86ee6…2023-07-25 16:06:37 <asciilifeform> awt: which v.py were you using ? ( asciilifeform's original chokes on such patches )
20eb1bf07e83c2bb…1d0343bf…2023-07-25 16:09:51 <awt> asciilifeform: not using v.py - just using vdiff and vpatch. Vpatch command is: vdiff -r -N akris akris-genesis > akris-genesis-$latest_version.vpatch
966b194720eb1bf0…efd37df4…2023-07-25 16:11:11 <signpost> worked with the v.sh bundled in pentacle fwiw
7beb6746966b1947…966b1947…2023-07-25 16:11:27 signpost not sure whether that means bug in v.sh, or bug in ???
400cb53d7beb6746…20eb1bf0…2023-07-25 16:14:30 <awt> Ah yeah - blatta vdiff process involved a/b directories.
0bd3d9f06bd98360…7e83c2bb…2023-07-25 16:35:43 <asciilifeform> awt: was following the instructions in http://v.alethepedia.com/akris_desktop/ , so assumed 'oh hey worx with v.py'
6fcf87ac0bd3d9f0…0bd3d9f0…2023-07-25 16:36:11 <asciilifeform> awt: the a/b thing was never hard-specified, but rather 'cemented in' ad-hoc in early days of vpatches
83c537d46fcf87ac…6fcf87ac…2023-07-25 16:37:02 <asciilifeform> fwiw asciilifeform's v.py which he uses to this day does require the dirs to be different (not necessarily 'a' and 'b' tho)
8ac5e676deac1cbf…83c537d4…2023-07-25 16:38:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028826 << this was phf et al's vdiff
68a064e88ac5e676…a583a14c…2023-07-25 16:40:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:32:20 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029266 << Did you implement V in Ada?
af9fae0868a064e8…38c33d85…2023-07-25 16:38:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:29:34 asciilifeform: awt_akris: oddity while pressing the genesis
388d3f1568a064e8…deac1cbf…2023-07-25 16:39:45 awt admittedly failed to get v.py working on my build system - tried porting it to py3, but required gnupg lib didn't support py3, - updated gnupg - api interface was not backward compatible. So I'm just doing it the old fashioned way patch by patch.
37661ccd388d3f15…8ac5e676…2023-07-25 16:44:04 <asciilifeform> hmm awt why the dependency on virtualenv ?
6f111a1247f01991…37661ccd…2023-07-25 16:44:26 <asciilifeform> ( wai can't simply run 'python3 bin/main.py' )
65a6b191eba2ceca…47f01991…2023-07-25 16:45:26 <awt> I find it very nice for development as a way to ensure a clean, up to date, indenpendent dependency tree.
29858b0065a6b191…65a6b191…2023-07-25 16:46:14 <awt> asciilifeform performed pip install -e ../akris from within akris-desktop?
cd1ec0ab29858b00…7beb6746…2023-07-25 16:46:25 <signpost> oughta work just by installing w/e globally
2bf8a62dcd1ec0ab…eba2ceca…2023-07-25 16:46:56 asciilifeform not likes 'installing' things, makes over9000x harder to fiddle with'em ad-hoc
08e074762bf8a62d…29858b00…2023-07-25 16:46:58 <awt> if not using a venv, then yes, should work if akris is installed from anywhere. Haven't tried.
7419614c08e07476…2bf8a62d…2023-07-25 16:47:31 asciilifeform liked how blatta not req'd any kinda installs
a078f57b7419614c…08e07476…2023-07-25 16:47:48 <awt> asciilifeform: the -e option fixes that for me. kind of "symlinks" the package so you can "live edit" from the project dir.
f0461e3ca078f57b…7419614c…2023-07-25 16:48:53 <asciilifeform> awt: i'ma try it as given, will take longer tho, haven't 'virtualenv' here and box is in a state where installing it is nontrivial
9bb8e282f07a557c…f07a557c…2023-07-25 17:54:46 <awt> it may be possible to:
1) build the serpent binary using python setup.py buil in akris
2) symlink to akris/akris from akris-desktop
Problem I'm currently seeing is akris/serpent.py then can't find _serpent_cffi.abi3.so
125305723a3f6b8c…3a3f6b8c…2023-07-25 18:01:36 <awt> Alternatively, if you don't want to use virtualenv, you can use something like pyenv. If you use the -e (--editable) option with pip install, you can fiddle with the akris/akris-desktop source from where you've unpacked it, rather than deep inside wherever your python installs packages.
bdb97c1212530572…cd1ec0ab…2023-07-25 18:32:12 signpost wagers the approach most compatible with asciilifeform's box will be to emerge the pydeps, then run the coad directly with python3
b4f70c77bdb97c12…f0461e3c…2023-07-25 18:34:44 <asciilifeform> unrealatedly, meanwhile, in heathendom lulz.
f8fd81d4b4f70c77…b4f70c77…2023-07-25 18:35:42 <asciilifeform> ^ straight-out 'internet of the future' hell, they took off the mask, etc.
e1db45c58a4646b8…8a4646b8…2023-07-25 18:38:49 signpost utterly unsurprised that this is being moved forward.
ebbb333be1db45c5…e1db45c5…2023-07-25 18:39:28 <signpost> soon only Trusted Devices on the public web
273e0063b5c0bf08…12530572…2023-07-25 22:49:37 <awt> asciilifeform: looks like no need to install virtualenv. Can use the python -m venv venv command instead. Included with any recent py3. Updating the docs momentarily.
9bf43277d011539c…273e0063…2023-07-25 23:02:57 <awt> asciilifeform: updated docs to remove references to virtulenv, and swapped out v.py for the bash v included with pentacle. Re-genesised with the updated docs. Gonna try and cut down on the number of patches. Blatta had way too many bugfix patches.
5ad2950e9bf43277…9bf43277…2023-07-26 03:14:18 <awt> billymg: what do you think about adding an "infographic" Pest protocol explainer to pestnet.io?
128a132c5725d373…6f008543…2023-07-26 13:43:58 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028873 << definitely needs it imo
4eb09509128a132c…68a064e8…2023-07-26 13:45:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 23:16:02 awt[signpost]: billymg: what do you think about adding an "infographic" Pest protocol explainer to pestnet.io?
8d14015e4eb09509…128a132c…2023-07-26 13:45:42 <billymg> the raw content already exists too, in the form of snippets from asciilifeform's spec and a few of the diagrams he's already made
1f63ddc80000000000000000…2023-07-26 14:24:10 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029282 << Thanks for clarifying.
2999f8cc1f63ddc8…af9fae08…2023-07-26 14:24:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 12:38:31 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028826 << this was phf et al's vdiff
5065e4122999f8cc…4eb09509…2023-07-26 14:25:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:32:20 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029266 << Did you implement V in Ada?
3896f22e5065e412…2999f8cc…2023-07-26 14:24:21 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 11:29:34 asciilifeform: awt_akris: oddity while pressing the genesis
6717d68d5065e412…1d07dd07…2023-07-26 14:24:38 <s1gnp0st> awt: also I didn't billymg's reply about the infographic until just now in akris, apparently nudged along by gregornyssa's message
2c4ff5e65065e412…5ad2950e…2023-07-26 15:06:30 <awt> s1gnp0st: ty. will be hard to diagnose this stuff until clients start displaying chain breaks.
1ff5faad2c4ff5e6…2c4ff5e6…2023-07-26 15:08:39 <awt> s1gnp0st: I am pretty sure, blatta being singlethreaded, that it drops packets during syncs.
4c479ea91ff5faad…1ff5faad…2023-07-26 15:10:53 <awt> So someone puts out an old netchain, some blatta doesn't have it, goes on a getdata binge, actually misses contemporary messages, then when things calm down, gets everything on the next message.
f22d58444c479ea9…6bcad0fa…2023-07-26 15:11:20 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028780 << nyet, I *did* make one for jonsykkel's smalpest, but don't recall if I published or not.
35f999baf22d5844…5065e412…2023-07-26 15:13:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 08:57:34 signpost: shinohai: didn't you have a pbuild for python pulled together?
9ef9295435f999ba…f22d5844…2023-07-26 15:12:00 shinohai catching up on logs, will likely try pressing akris this evening ...
d1671f6335f999ba…4c479ea9…2023-07-26 15:14:47 <awt> shinohai: lemme know if you run into any issues.
3a1b4449d1671f63…d1671f63…2023-07-26 15:17:02 <awt> Ah yup - gregorynyssa's client is not setting either netchain or selfchain.
8c3aefc43a104db0…3a104db0…2023-07-26 15:43:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-25#1028872 << ty, awt. i'ma try it again tonight
a42a8f008c3aefc4…35f999ba…2023-07-26 15:44:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 19:04:41 awt[signpost]: asciilifeform: updated docs to remove references to virtulenv, and swapped out v.py for the bash v included with pentacle. Re-genesised with the updated docs. Gonna try and cut down on the number of patches. Blatta had way too many bugfix patches.
b7547cd6a42a8f00…8c3aefc4…2023-07-26 15:44:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-26#1028877 << this tarball has the current graphics in www-friendly res
f7a2521ab7547cd6…a42a8f00…2023-07-26 15:45:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 09:46:59 billymg: the raw content already exists too, in the form of snippets from asciilifeform's spec and a few of the diagrams he's already made
20a94609f7a2521a…f7a2521a…2023-07-26 15:45:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 14:47:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: billymg: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
d9ef2a1620a94609…b7547cd6…2023-07-26 15:46:12 asciilifeform not yet vpatch for this version of spec, but yes it'll have the latex src for the graphics along with errything else
2521dcb920a94609…d9ef2a16…2023-07-26 15:47:17 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-26#1028878 << hm replay as in chronologically misordered? or simply in the 'fill in log' sense
04fd6bdf2521dcb9…20a94609…2023-07-26 15:49:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 10:17:03 signpost: just got a huge replay of 2022 messages, lol
25c29beb35e7fa23…2521dcb9…2023-07-26 15:48:04 <asciilifeform> signpost: rright but were they displayed as if happening nao? or properly backfilled log
c51c6de625c29beb…25c29beb…2023-07-26 15:48:37 asciilifeform expects he'll see for himself when finally revvs up awt's new pestron
542bbba69c2d0763…fc843a97…2023-07-26 15:51:10 asciilifeform won't miss dark ages append-only console when it finally goes away
fa9d06db9012c405…9c2d0763…2023-07-26 15:58:23 <signpost> yuge step forward to have the log-viewer and chat interface merged into one program.
03d76c2ef6a1fe93…f6a1fe93…2023-07-26 16:35:52 asciilifeform expected a duct tape & chewing gum pest when saw link
9725dfed96a91111…b48fb4c0…2023-07-26 17:17:33 <awt> whaack, billymg: do you know if Jacob and Dorion are aware of Pest?
f873f4b99725dfed…8d14015e…2023-07-26 17:21:02 <billymg> awt: i was talking to whaack about it a few months ago and he said he brought it up with them. i'll let him fill in the details if he's around
4e968be9f873f4b9…96a91111…2023-07-26 17:27:25 <asciilifeform> billymg: i'd expect they'll defo 'invent' pest at some pt, after done with fg
6b16a7b84e968be9…3896f22e…2023-07-26 17:27:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-05-26 14:36:40 asciilifeform: meanwhile! the folx in parallel universe still kickin', catch up to where we were in '21.
d6d15ccd6b16a7b8…6b16a7b8…2023-07-26 17:27:25 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-23 13:32:57 asciilifeform: iirc d00d had an ee diploma. ought've been done in a week after starting, lol
16e88090d6d15ccd…4e968be9…2023-07-26 17:29:14 <asciilifeform> perhaps will even try to sell it to gullible expats in bananistan as glorious lost tech of mp etc
7b6d786d4e00e0cb…4e00e0cb…2023-07-26 17:30:02 <signpost> the great schism of mp fanclub matters to nobody.
2505c8197b6d786d…ea98d17e…2023-07-26 17:30:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: matters, evidently, to the fella who too proud to write in re fg schems when 'i have no idea why was done this way' etc
8e8c45d64dd05091…2505c819…2023-07-26 17:36:36 asciilifeform reads their www 1nce in blue moon; rather tedious, lenthy diatribes 'a la mp' about rando shitcoin 'scene' news, 'work reports' e.g. 'nth july : my alarm clock battery died', etc. snoar
8e3a2afd7c5be771…4dd05091…2023-07-26 17:37:24 <signpost> good luck to them; I'm fully disabused of the notion that anything approximating a party of sanity is going to emerge, certainly not by the mere unfurling of one's cock.
bbae7d738e3a2afd…8e3a2afd…2023-07-26 17:38:13 <signpost> not even likely that marginal pockets of sanity remain, but that's at least worth living.
c805b9aabbae7d73…8e8c45d6…2023-07-26 17:39:34 <asciilifeform> awt: comanism, misc. cargo cult airplanes, piles of 'don't be poor', etc
441340824474db7e…d6d15ccd…2023-07-26 17:45:13 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-06-27 asciilifeform: such folx have precisely 1 approach to solving technical problems; and this approach is amply illustrated on diana's www
8fc7347044134082…44134082…2023-07-26 17:45:14 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-06-27 asciilifeform: shinohai: diana is, by my lights, one of the numerous 'plodders' who go from kindergarten to doctorate with perfect marks without skipping a beat but also without ever so much as risking to emit an original thought
1e3634818fc73470…4474db7e…2023-07-26 17:46:12 <asciilifeform> poor buggers seem to have taken exactly 1 thing from the mp episode -- infection with baccilus of megalomania, 'errything you can do i can do better', 'poor are subhuman', etc
9cd2ea4f1e363481…1e363481…2023-07-26 17:46:36 <asciilifeform> where's the promised glorious 4th reich tho.
1604970f9cd2ea4f…bbae7d73…2023-07-26 17:47:22 <signpost> women are by disposition more compliant ("agreeable"); I don't know that they can be damned for this.
dcdc9b951604970f…9cd2ea4f…2023-07-26 17:47:48 <asciilifeform> this in re jfw et al rather than the chix
23e0f935626f613f…dcdc9b95…2023-07-26 17:48:06 <asciilifeform> ( who per asciilifeform's lights were npcs, and afaik wasn't wrong about this )
a583ae9923e0f935…626f613f…2023-07-26 17:47:59 <signpost> adopting affectations of the already rich does nothing.
e90d3647a583ae99…23e0f935…2023-07-26 17:48:58 asciilifeform recently when clearing out old house excavated coupla 100 blank FG pcbs, thought of the panama folx, lol
f6fd99aee90d3647…7c5be771…2023-07-26 17:50:15 <awt> Perhaps relavant: if you want success with women and are short, ugly, poor, don't take advice from tall, handsome, rich.
e2f91172fd5a56a9…e90d3647…2023-07-26 17:51:10 asciilifeform never seen jfw, d00d cleared out of montevideo seemingly hours before asciilifeform arrived in '18
f9b1ff64e2f91172…e2f91172…2023-07-26 17:51:22 <asciilifeform> per Bingo's report, 'he was thin like pow and got tired quickly'
3bca5e59f9b1ff64…f9b1ff64…2023-07-26 17:56:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-26#1028943 << iirc notion was to schmooze with'em and sell glorious lost tech. but apparently errytime they bought shitcoin etc. instead, the latter being moar 'charismatic' and pushed in glossy reich mags
930ea59a3bca5e59…04fd6bdf…2023-07-26 17:58:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 13:49:49 signpost: adopting affectations of the already rich does nothing.
b193c284930ea59a…3bca5e59…2023-07-26 17:56:53 <asciilifeform> 'wild boar does not appreciate fine cooking'(tm)(r)(cn)
212c5c5ab193c284…fd5a56a9…2023-07-26 17:58:07 <signpost> most of the rich worth mentioning are already amply insulated from inflation.
16ccbb0b212c5c5a…212c5c5a…2023-07-26 17:58:20 signpost has far more respect for the people putting coin in the hands of e.g. El Salvador.
566674b316ccbb0b…b193c284…2023-07-26 17:58:59 <asciilifeform> not merely 'insulated from', but directly benefit from. hence wai there even ~is~ inflation.
3023de463deaf3ae…cc6a0d06…2023-07-26 17:59:16 <signpost> no, you're right, brrr goes right into their pockets.
f8a892c23023de46…3deaf3ae…2023-07-26 17:59:44 <asciilifeform> straightforward pump from plebe pockets to 'nobles'
d3da7414f8a892c2…f8a892c2…2023-07-26 18:00:24 <asciilifeform> ( for entirely straightforward reason )
4861e7aad3da7414…8fc73470…2023-07-26 18:00:24 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-27 asciilifeform: PeterL: both come from same root -- lizards' desire to keep their yachts, palaces, and cocaine despite a collapsing support base. i.e. same thing that happened in e.g. argentina. (or 1700s fr. for that matter. and plenty of other places.)
b216b610f02ddf09…4861e7aa…2023-07-26 18:10:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-15 asciilifeform: ... from reich pov, plebes having savings is a bug, similarly to resistive losses in electric cable. 'pieces of yacht that got diverted'
d0456fcbb216b610…b216b610…2023-07-26 18:10:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-03 asciilifeform: not to mention, rentiers laffed all the way to the bank as real estate, 'stonks',etc. doubled, tripled; meanwhile savings of plebes confiscated via inflatism
3ae412b960b5b7bc…d0456fcb…2023-07-26 18:11:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 10:08:40 asciilifeform: billymg: there's a scene in 1 of v. shalamov's 'kolyma stories' where a guard storms into the barrack in the evening and smashes the old tin cans the inmates have been using as little kettles to warm up bits of food
ac26757b3ae412b9…3ae412b9…2023-07-26 18:11:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 10:09:07 asciilifeform: 'worthless pieces of shit, clearly you are fed too much and work too little, if you have what to warm up in these'
9f1d988b4bd585e0…9ef92954…2023-07-26 18:56:56 <shinohai> awt: Successful press, etc but running `bin/main.py` results in: "ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'akris'"
d83a1bba9f1d988b…9f1d988b…2023-07-26 18:58:49 <shinohai> (Might be due to `pip install -e file:../akris` not working for me)
019bd2ff4da3569a…4da3569a…2023-07-26 19:09:05 <shinohai> Very nice awt! http://btc.info.gf/uploads/AKRIS.png
c8db719851d6871a…019bd2ff…2023-07-26 19:16:05 shinohai will connect it up shortly, still reading USAGE and docs.
f1926b960000000000000000…2023-07-26 23:08:49 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-26#1029394 << I will fix this.
8e854ee3f1926b96…ac26757b…2023-07-26 23:08:52 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 11:17:04 awt[asciilifeform]: Ah yup - gregorynyssa's client is not setting either netchain or selfchain.
81ae659e0000000000000000…2023-07-26 23:16:46 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-25#1029303 << Stallman and others have been raising this alarm since I was in middle school.
e4ea256a81ae659e…8e854ee3…2023-07-26 23:16:50 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-25 14:34:45 asciilifeform: unrealatedly, meanwhile, in heathendom lulz.
220546900000000000000000…2023-07-26 23:29:11 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-26#1029456 << In Chinese they call this the "sheep fleecing" explanation.
396b7ba922054690…e4ea256a…2023-07-26 23:29:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 13:59:00 asciilifeform: not merely 'insulated from', but directly benefit from. hence wai there even ~is~ inflation.
61d718fc0000000000000000…2023-07-26 23:35:15 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-26#1029474 << Do you think CDE is any good? I have not used it myself. The rectangular appearance has a slight appeal for me.
f752dc1d61d718fc…396b7ba9…2023-07-26 23:35:26 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 15:09:14 shinohai[asciilifeform]: Very nice awt! http://btc.info.gf/uploads/AKRIS.png
746572d1f752dc1d…c8db7198…2023-07-26 23:38:50 <shinohai> gregorynyssa: CDE pretty good as far as X things go - doesn't use a fuckton of resources and indeed the rectangular appearance is nostalgic, very nice thing overall.
6c52f1830000000000000000…2023-07-26 23:50:07 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-26#1029487 << That is great to hear.
4baa75966c52f183…f752dc1d…2023-07-26 23:50:11 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 19:38:56 shinohai[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: CDE pretty good as far as X things go - doesn't use a fuckton of resources and indeed the rectangular appearance is nostalgic, very nice thing overall.
b75c1978abc06c2f…abc06c2f…2023-07-27 00:00:21 <gregorynyssa> I have confirmed that "selfchain" and "netchain" are working.
20bb72a0b75c1978…b75c1978…2023-07-27 00:00:40 <gregorynyssa> The next step is to support address-casting.
ee581d7d20bb72a0…51d6871a…2023-07-27 00:04:10 <awt> gregorynessa, your latest few messages have netchain and selfchain correct. However, the one that says "Let me see if this message works" has a null netchain.
24b3758b20bb72a0…20bb72a0…2023-07-27 00:06:25 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-26#1029496 << I saw that on my end. Thanks for confirming.
bca3f43724b3758b…4baa7596…2023-07-27 00:06:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 20:04:13 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynessa, your latest few messages have netchain and selfchain correct. However, the one that says "Let me see if this message works" has a null netchain.
e463b37d6649ba03…9e447eec…2023-07-27 01:48:37 <shinohai> Sorry for the noise, seems there was gigantic delay before stations started talking to one another.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain b75747fad00c61798aaf4e00be7832c135d72840155dbee124d3261a98472a06) prior to <shinoa> ---
240a534130de173b…30de173b…2023-07-27 12:47:09 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: awt: Are we aiming to support the transferring of files in the 0xFA version of Pest?
e43a70c0240a5341…240a5341…2023-07-27 12:48:56 <gregorynyssa> Will there be a "side channels" mechanism eventually, in order to support audio- and video-streaming?
68c7ed15e43a70c0…8a1387df…2023-07-27 13:03:53 <awt> gregorynyssa: I will let asciilifeform answer re: spec. signpost has been working on an implementation of online codes that can be used as the underlying mechanism for file transfer, and I believe various proposals for pest message types to enable it have been discus
e513cf624ffa02cd…6649ba03…2023-07-27 14:21:47 <shinoa> ahahaha I forgot to download the images when building akris last night, just now noticed the flag in console ^_^
663a229ce513cf62…4ffa02cd…2023-07-27 14:39:34 <awt> shinoa: lol yeah when adding the image I neglected to consider that diff can't handle binaries so had to make some last minute adjustments
6818fb13663a229c…34dda28d…2023-07-27 14:39:36 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: see awt's reply. these will go in 4.2.4 'Binary Message' eventually.
829a3328663a229c…e463b37d…2023-07-27 14:42:24 <shinohai> I can't remember, but can't you save images as base64 and embed them in python3 ?
983a56df829a3328…b02994eb…2023-07-27 14:42:37 <signpost> you can, but that'd be kind of a wank to jam it into a vpatch
cfcbe739e946ba70…983a56df…2023-07-27 14:43:07 <signpost> resulting patch would be as human hostile as it gets
e8c93968cfcbe739…829a3328…2023-07-27 14:44:20 <shinohai> Point, since nfi what that base64 string contains.
aa22d4c7964defbd…e43a70c0…2023-07-27 15:54:53 <gregorynyssa> https://imgur.com/d57e5384-fc27-4fb7-8342-0d835ee6db51
22185d44aa22d4c7…aa22d4c7…2023-07-27 15:54:56 <gregorynyssa> https://imgur.com/8123218d-1c62-4e78-a316-a4beea302bbe
356969b589719b4b…22185d44…2023-07-27 15:56:17 <gregorynyssa> It appears that imgur.com is not working. Is there an image-hosting website which anyone can recommend?
440c7f94356969b5…cfcbe739…2023-07-27 15:57:42 <signpost> least pain in the ass is just standing yourself up an nginx somewhere and scp'ing screenshot files to it
6148e44f440c7f94…356969b5…2023-07-27 16:02:35 <gregorynyssa> https://2047.yuan.engineering/878db6ccb0c669db7817cc900c4d2f63981fcfe0a8f6d984f80d6d764ce28460/1.png
c45ecbad6148e44f…6148e44f…2023-07-27 16:03:12 <gregorynyssa> https://2047.yuan.engineering/909968a7ee8d9d4d07a0786ea76240b39181612d12f1d0e6600103c1916cd426/2.png
85a3e57095e618d1…440c7f94…2023-07-27 16:04:30 <signpost> would be nice to set proper mimetypes on these so they display in browser rather than download
30ffcc4ed74de03a…d74de03a…2023-07-27 16:04:53 <signpost> anyway, cool to hear that your client is coming along too, gregorynyssa
f813fc85bf4c2547…95e618d1…2023-07-27 16:07:27 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-27#1029539 << You are right. My nginx(1) skills are still insufficient.
b288dc67f813fc85…bca3f437…2023-07-27 16:07:31 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-27 12:04:41 signpost[asciilifeform]: would be nice to set proper mimetypes on these so they display in browser rather than download
e256d0a3b288dc67…f813fc85…2023-07-27 16:08:53 <gregorynyssa> signpost: awt: Thanks for your encouragement.
265b8dd2e256d0a3…e256d0a3…2023-07-27 16:13:13 <gregorynyssa> If anyone wants a copy of the Java implementation, which is tentatively named ChinaPestProgram, please send me an email.
b097bac2265b8dd2…265b8dd2…2023-07-27 16:14:37 <gregorynyssa> Alternatively, send me a GPG message using paste.deedbot.org with your email-address indicated.
7a633d9db097bac2…30ffcc4e…2023-07-27 16:18:14 <signpost> gregorynyssa: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=h9Cw << sure I'll take a look
c82a520a7a633d9d…89719b4b…2023-07-27 17:24:41 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: from screenshit, loox like yours might be the 1st mswin pestron?
8ffa776ec82a520a…c82a520a…2023-07-27 17:32:14 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: are you currently in china? ( may be interesting to test pest vs. the 'great wall' )
c03ec92f8ffa776e…8ffa776e…2023-07-27 17:33:10 <asciilifeform> ( in particular, in light of this thrd )
abb18fa5c03ec92f…930ea59a…2023-07-27 17:34:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-01 12:14:53 asciilifeform[5]: re: censors, was thinking : possibly pest oughta take 1st 496 bytes of incoming packet (i.e. permit rng padding to random size within some range), station ops may need to trade 'no frags' for 'not making pesticity obvious to snoops by size'
65900753abb18fa5…f873f4b9…2023-07-27 17:42:04 <billymg> pressed akris and got it running, can't seem to submit any commands in the gui. can type/clear text just fine, can switch tabs between "broadcast messages" and "console", but pressing 'enter' does nothing. gentoo/xorg/dwm
290d65fd65900753…65900753…2023-07-27 17:45:29 <billymg> some initial feedback/requests for the GUI: have it respect Xft.dpi or include a flag for setting a custom font size (text looks tiny on my 4k monitor), bind ctrl-q for killing the application
45516df4290d65fd…290d65fd…2023-07-27 17:51:28 <billymg> copy/paste works, from the right-click context menu or ctrl-c/v, and uses the same buffer as other X apps (neat!)
eef5471445516df4…bf4c2547…2023-07-27 18:28:11 <awt> billymg: hmmm. The text fields are bound to the '<Enter>' event. Maybe needs to check for another? Would be good to know what event is being sent when you hit enter. Not sure how to capture that.
6ba89318eef54714…45516df4…2023-07-27 18:31:51 <billymg> awt: here's what 'xev' gives me for my enter key: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ecB8
3d2e120b6ba89318…6ba89318…2023-07-27 18:33:45 <billymg> possibly that it's 'Return' and not 'Enter'. xev shows my number pad enter key as 'KP_Enter' and that also didn't work in akris
1c7e9aa03d2e120b…eef54714…2023-07-27 18:47:24 <awt> billymg: Oh shoot, I was wrong - the text fields bind to Return, not Enter. For the broadcast messages tab, the code is in MessageEntry.py line 51. For the console, it's in console.py line 55.
deae094be1158307…3d2e120b…2023-07-27 18:49:26 <billymg> i'll check those lines, but at the moment neither the qwerty Return key or the numpad Enter key work in either tab
62ce369bdeae094b…deae094b…2023-07-27 18:50:52 <billymg> to clarify, my main enter key sending 'Return' event (shown in this output)
11c975db62ce369b…abb18fa5…2023-07-27 18:52:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-27 14:33:07 billymg: awt: here's what 'xev' gives me for my enter key: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ecB8
93e0cdd311c975db…e1158307…2023-07-27 18:59:48 <awt> billymg: there definitely needs to be a way to adjust the font size.
661b998acb0ae09a…cb0ae09a…2023-07-27 20:48:23 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-27#1029548 << I have received your message and will send you the tarball through email.
90d108eb661b998a…b288dc67…2023-07-27 20:48:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-27 12:18:25 signpost[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=h9Cw << sure I'll take a look
afca51ef90d108eb…661b998a…2023-07-27 20:50:38 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-27#1029549 << The UDP-related code and IRC bridge work on Linux, but the GUI portion is aimed at Windows.
c8b340c2afca51ef…90d108eb…2023-07-27 20:50:42 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-27 13:24:42 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: from screenshit, loox like yours might be the 1st mswin pestron?
9edabad8c8b340c2…afca51ef…2023-07-27 20:51:03 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-27#1029550 << Yes, I moved to China earlier this year.
6aa8507e9edabad8…c8b340c2…2023-07-27 20:51:08 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-27 13:32:14 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: are you currently in china? ( may be interesting to test pest vs. the 'great wall' )
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 89c6d5dea33d8c32e74edba3f4e6eed42464173a857b8cae94e14b28ef54a5d9) prior to <gregorynyssa2> ---
3ec35b0489c6d5de…89c6d5de…2023-07-28 09:28:19 <gregorynyssa2> Test message. Please ignore. A different username is used.
5774358a3ec35b04…426f52b7…2023-07-28 09:51:25 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029574 <<< they totally spoiler the most important thing of the first books of the Foundation cycle
640cb10f5774358a…5774358a…2023-07-28 09:55:13 <unpx> Moreover they changed the whole story line so it's just a bit Foundation (the book) and they blneded it so it doesn't even follow the original story and create a new plot in between ``the encyclopedists'' and ``the traders''
4ae246205774358a…6aa8507e…2023-07-28 09:55:52 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 05:10:50 gregorynyssa[asciilifeform]: Has anyone here read Asimov's Foundation trilogy? Is anyone watching Apple TV's adaptation?
bb27ec9e4ae24620…640cb10f…2023-07-28 09:56:12 <unpx> And putting even another spoiler from the end of Foundation (the book), like it is normal for people to have such powers.
eee204c2bb27ec9e…bb27ec9e…2023-07-28 10:10:25 <unpx> Currently trying to finish ``Foundation and Earth'', but it gets me nervous
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ef42f0111dbf069b…1dbf069b…2023-07-28 10:23:17 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029581 << The TV adaptation took huge liberties with the material.
49391750ef42f011…ef42f011…2023-07-28 10:23:43 <gregorynyssa> Someone wrote that the Hober Mallow in the show is a mixture of Mallow and Ponyets.
1167a3b549391750…4ae24620…2023-07-28 10:28:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 05:56:14 unpx[asciilifeform]: Moreover they changed the whole story line so it's just a bit Foundation (the book) and they blneded it so it doesn't even follow the original story and create a new plot in between ``the encyclopedists'' and ``the traders''
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7e0db735dd2c3afd4ce9d2927a44185ee9e5500d321ca6b55b2fddc54d0a4e95) prior to <gregorynyssa> ---
d29aec0b7e0db735…7e0db735…2023-07-28 12:20:53 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029583 << There was a thirty-year gap between when Asimov wrote Second Foundation and when he wrote the remaining four books.
c5b5d1d0d29aec0b…d29aec0b…2023-07-28 12:22:58 <gregorynyssa> Those last four books are quite different in tone. I am not really a fan of them.
aa685620c5b5d1d0…1167a3b5…2023-07-28 12:25:59 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 06:10:27 unpx[asciilifeform]: Currently trying to finish ``Foundation and Earth'', but it gets me nervous
e055a17daa685620…c5b5d1d0…2023-07-28 18:00:09 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029594 << I set her client to bounces = 4. It looks like we are five or more hops away.
e25805f9e055a17d…aa685620…2023-07-28 18:00:14 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 12:36:03 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa if he's using your client, it may be mishandling bounces
f649eaa0e25805f9…e055a17d…2023-07-28 18:01:15 <gregorynyssa> What would be nice (maybe `awt` already has it) is a "traceroute" tool to view the shape of the network.
1f672ee8f649eaa0…a5e0277f…2023-07-28 18:01:50 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: this isn't possible as stated
6e9653b21f672ee8…1f672ee8…2023-07-28 18:02:25 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: a station can only know what it receives via its peers. can, theoretically, view bounce counts tho
083d102e6e9653b2…f649eaa0…2023-07-28 18:03:13 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029617 << An "adversarial" traceroute tool is not possible, but an "opt in" version would be.
edde0db2083d102e…e25805f9…2023-07-28 18:03:17 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 14:02:25 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: a station can only know what it receives via its peers. can, theoretically, view bounce counts tho
cf2e9f73edde0db2…6e9653b2…2023-07-28 18:03:34 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: naturally folx can volunteer info re their topology if they feel like it
3b0082bb02b0a882…cf2e9f73…2023-07-28 18:04:07 <asciilifeform> see statement re icmp in earlier spec tho
7e697b153b0082bb…02b0a882…2023-07-28 18:04:58 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029622 << Of course, ICMP is a mess. I have even looked into how to leave it out of hte Linux kernel during compilation.
0b66df167e697b15…edde0db2…2023-07-28 18:05:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 14:04:07 asciilifeform: see statement re icmp in earlier spec tho
d2428c0bbd5c6b40…bd5c6b40…2023-07-28 18:09:49 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029592 << That was a good film nonetheless. As a teenager I found it to be quite inspirational.
78d9db5cd2428c0b…0b66df16…2023-07-28 18:09:57 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 09:57:57 PeterL[asciilifeform]: Did you watch the movie "I, Robot" (with Will Smith)? About the only thing it had in common with Asimov's book was the same title. The plot was actually closer to the book "Caves of Steel", but I guess they took the other name because it is more memorable
983dc4ef78d9db5c…740ee65f…2023-07-28 18:21:18 <PeterL> gregorynyssa: yeah, I liked it, and I thought it was a nice mix of various things that Asimov thought about, it just had a lot of creative liberities in turning it into a movie
34f9a1e3983dc4ef…983dc4ef…2023-07-28 18:22:37 <PeterL> similar thing in the "Bourne Identity" series, the first movie has the same general plot as the first book, but the sequels had absolutely nothing in common between books and movies (I actually like the plot in the movies better)
aef5ed6934f9a1e3…d2428c0b…2023-07-28 18:34:00 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029630 << Yep, same here.
47ae6cc0aef5ed69…78d9db5c…2023-07-28 18:34:04 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 14:22:41 PeterL[asciilifeform]: similar thing in the "Bourne Identity" series, the first movie has the same general plot as the first book, but the sequels had absolutely nothing in common between books and movies (I actually like the plot in the movies better)
7fb675f847ae6cc0…aef5ed69…2023-07-28 18:42:43 <gregorynyssa> If I might ask, has Serpent been implemented yet using Peh? Is that feasible in the near future?
f6761d047fb675f8…faf79eeb…2023-07-28 18:43:40 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: would be monstrously inefficient ( for e.g. pestronics. for use in a peh tape, potentially useful . but anywhere else -- wai? )
3e1d1a84f6761d04…f6761d04…2023-07-28 18:43:55 <asciilifeform> for pestronics ideally you want serpentism in asm
3d2ec3e436f023e4…7fb675f8…2023-07-28 18:44:59 <gregorynyssa> Of course, because of line-rate decoding.
9c2ed1df122dedae…34f9a1e3…2023-07-28 19:47:08 <PeterL> awt: I'm just trying to wrap my head around this Akris thing - you have two genesis patches, akris and akris-desktop, that are meant to be built completely separate from each other?
bc19107b9c2ed1df…47691b71…2023-07-28 19:57:18 <awt_akris> PeterL: Akris Desktop depends on Akris. Imports the client and server libs so it can start up its own station and connect to it.
26c226590000000000000000…2023-07-28 19:59:14 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029641 << So why is Blatta not used as the engine of Akris?
4062249c26c22659…47ae6cc0…2023-07-28 19:59:18 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 15:57:21 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: PeterL: Akris Desktop depends on Akris. Imports the client and server libs so it can start up its own station and connect to it.
484c7c3c4062249c…26c22659…2023-07-28 19:59:42 <gregorynyssa> EDIT. "as the engine of the GUI of Akris?"
31e521ab484c7c3c…9c2ed1df…2023-07-28 20:00:40 <PeterL> so do I only need to build the Akris Desktop, or do I first have to install Akris?
66dacd3031e521ab…bc19107b…2023-07-28 20:01:53 <awt_akris> gregorynyssa: akris is a rewrite of blatta. Akris, however, is multithreaded, and provides a JSON api over a local socket, rather than act as an IRC server.
32291a7a66dacd30…66dacd30…2023-07-28 20:03:43 <awt_akris> PeterL, you just have to be able to run pip install (-e) <akris location> from inside the Akris Desktop environment. That should build the serpent binary and make the akris module available to akris desktop.
b92b888832291a7a…484c7c3c…2023-07-28 20:04:14 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-28#1029646 << Great to hear.
8d73026eb92b8888…4062249c…2023-07-28 20:04:20 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 16:01:56 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: akris is a rewrite of blatta. Akris, however, is multithreaded, and provides a JSON api over a local socket, rather than act as an IRC server.
5dc0c4338d73026e…31e521ab…2023-07-28 20:05:02 <PeterL> I mean, do I need to use v on both genesis patches, or is the desktop patch a superset of the akris one?
8b69a5255dc0c433…5dc0c433…2023-07-28 20:06:01 <PeterL> (let me know if my questions are stupid, I feel a bit lost here)
bfa596418b69a525…32291a7a…2023-07-28 20:07:16 <awt_akris> PeterL: you need to press both Genesis patches in separate locations.
421ea654bfa59641…8b69a525…2023-07-28 20:08:06 <PeterL> ok, I think that was the problem I was running into, had them in the same place
063885bd421ea654…bfa59641…2023-07-28 20:08:25 <awt_akris> aha ok noted. will try to make this more clear in the docs.
3d684678063885bd…063885bd…2023-07-28 20:08:43 <awt_akris> Akris is designed to be its own thing - I hope that other clients will be developed for it.
b96eb1af63a6ed6f…421ea654…2023-07-28 20:09:33 <PeterL> where in the directory tree do the images need to end up?
00525ba8b96eb1af…63a6ed6f…2023-07-28 20:10:15 <awt_akris> I like to put akris and akris-desktop under the same parent folder.
efac2ac4ca39b83e…ca39b83e…2023-07-28 20:11:10 <awt_akris> In python, akris and akris-desktop are considered "packages"
0a95cfd2efac2ac4…b96eb1af…2023-07-28 20:11:29 <PeterL> I mean the two image files that were in a separate tar?
541ab52e629b7727…efac2ac4…2023-07-28 20:12:30 <awt_akris> oh lol yeah if you unpack that tar from akris-desktop, they should end up in akris_desktop/images
cf9d7715dafa9f96…b92b8888…2023-07-28 20:19:12 <gregorynyssa> PeterL: awt_akris: As it is written in St Mark's gospel: en de ioannes endedumenos trichas kamelou kai zonen dermatinen peri ten osphun autou kai esthion akridas kai meli agrion.
0ace4fa2cf9d7715…dafa9f96…2023-07-28 20:20:52 <awt_akris> gregorynyssa sees right through my obscure references
f7323d120ace4fa2…cf9d7715…2023-07-28 20:20:59 <gregorynyssa> St John the Baptist ate locusts (akris) and honey (meli).
dabb112c808e408b…0ace4fa2…2023-07-28 20:21:52 <awt_akris> I had something like a locust once - I feel like it was undercooked.
1afb1c1424b9426a…964defbd…2023-07-28 23:38:45 <shinoa> So far akris very smooth, hardly notice it running on chinkpad.
b62ece9924b9426a…f7323d12…2023-07-29 07:27:56 <gregorynyssa> https://www.thestreet.com/cryptocurrency/rfk-jr-announces-plan-to-back-dollar-with-bitcoin-end-bitcoin-taxes << I have had some trouble understanding the work of RFK Jr.
2e01a7641afb1c14…e8c93968…2023-07-29 02:38:59 <shinohai> For interested parties, I documented building akris on Gentoo: http://btc.info.gf/blog/building-awts-akris-pestnet-client-on-gentoo.html
8d437891b62ece99…b62ece99…2023-07-29 07:30:48 <gregorynyssa> The article was mentioned by `mats` here: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-07-20#1115161
1bc0ead98d437891…8d73026e…2023-07-29 07:30:54 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-07-20 mats: lmao https://www.thestreet.com/cryptocurrency/rfk-jr-announces-plan-to-back-dollar-with-bitcoin-end-bitcoin-taxes
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain d2378f73ece78fcf7e0bbbb56352de5876d98b6f6fcc17f366134a729d9ccd68) prior to <gregorynyssa> ---
51dd1269d2378f73…d2378f73…2023-07-29 14:12:55 <gregorynyssa> The congressional hearing regarding UFOs is on the frontpage of YouTube.
97a3f05b51dd1269…51dd1269…2023-07-29 14:14:42 <gregorynyssa> If I might ask, who is the author of the logger at logs.nosuchlabs.com?
3312cb2697a3f05b…97a3f05b…2023-07-29 14:26:44 <gregorynyssa> signpost: awt: I would be glad to talk about Luby coding sometime.
236c66de3312cb26…3312cb26…2023-07-29 14:32:19 <gregorynyssa> Can someone send me the details again for accessing "dulapnet?" I was hoping to speak to Vex again.
20d3ff4a236c66de…7a633d9d…2023-07-29 14:38:32 signpost afk at the moment, but would be happy to when back
a7b62e482c67c410…122dedae…2023-07-29 15:17:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-29#1029179 << it runs asciilifeform's logotron
72751d24a7b62e48…9d6f0274…2023-07-29 15:18:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-29 10:16:29 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: If I might ask, who is the author of the logger at logs.nosuchlabs.com?
57e46f5381d5e419…81d5e419…2023-07-29 15:19:25 <asciilifeform> hello gmachine from beijing, we hear you
134cebec5c5d1915…57e46f53…2023-07-29 15:20:15 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: i'm getting duplicated strings from you ( as are the loggers )
f3d770e7134cebec…72751d24…2023-07-29 15:21:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-29 11:21:27 gregorynyssa[PeterL|signpost]: gmachine: Glad to have you with us.
34c0da938f0a2832…8f0a2832…2023-07-29 15:24:02 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-29#1029693 << Yep. I will let `gmachine` introduce himself later. He is a programmer with some valuable experiences.
58dca49b34c0da93…1bc0ead9…2023-07-29 15:24:07 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-29 11:18:48 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa is ^ 1 of yours ?
427b1ff75af440d4…34c0da93…2023-07-29 15:27:12 <gregorynyssa> shinoa: What does ACTION mean in this case?
127fae08427b1ff7…427b1ff7…2023-07-29 15:28:07 <gregorynyssa> I thought I would mention that `gmachine` is fluent in Russian.
b1369b48127fae08…127fae08…2023-07-29 15:28:32 <gregorynyssa> Also, he was the person who introduced me to the writing of Andrei Martyanov.
6a7ada19b1369b48…b1369b48…2023-07-29 15:30:47 <gregorynyssa> The duplicated messages were caused by a mistake in the interface, not the networking code.
369a367f6a7ada19…6a7ada19…2023-07-29 15:31:06 <gregorynyssa> I just realized what the "action" notation does.
bde7b696369a367f…369a367f…2023-07-29 15:31:49 <gregorynyssa> The logger recognizes "action" in uppercase as the equivalent of IRC's /me.
2ef95683bde7b696…48afb30c…2023-07-29 15:57:26 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-29#1029207 << aha, it's just an artifact of old irc days I suppose.
a7daaa9f2ef95683…f3d770e7…2023-07-29 15:59:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-29 11:33:37 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: The logger recognizes "action" in uppercase as the equivalent of IRC's /me.
cf2fb4e43ee3bc4e…3ee3bc4e…2023-07-29 16:03:34 <awt> shinoa: I knew asciilifeform would find the client unusable without support for /me
57fad77cbb87f592…1b2c81ce…2023-07-30 15:12:26 <billymg> awt: am i going to need to fiddle with ports to get akris working from my residential isp?
f30b4f1357fad77c…57fad77c…2023-07-30 15:19:44 <billymg> hrm, nm, i see akris is using 8080 so it must be something else
20f9991e74b00913…74b00913…2023-07-30 15:32:04 <awt_akris> lol - and I still managed to send a command as a message
9646142620f9991e…f30b4f13…2023-07-30 15:33:10 <billymg> awt: i think i need to set up port forwarding in my router(s)
d542ac9f96461426…96461426…2023-07-30 15:33:26 <billymg> isp modem -> router 1 -> router 2 (don't ask)
89977a8cd542ac9f…20f9991e…2023-07-30 15:35:44 <awt_akris> Ok. If you want to configure your at for awt it's the same IP address but at port 54000 now.
77047c0c89977a8c…056fb138…2023-07-30 15:40:23 <awt> billymg: are you trying to get the osx build working on your laptop?
cf42e1f777047c0c…e0716c1c…2023-07-30 15:41:16 <billymg> awt: no, on linux, i figured out why enter wouldn't submit
5e32fdbecf42e1f7…cf42e1f7…2023-07-30 15:41:35 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-28#1029106
59dca5d55e32fdbe…a7daaa9f…2023-07-30 15:42:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-28 13:58:08 billymg: turning off numlock fixed it
89f3bf14a6c5812a…a6c5812a…2023-07-30 18:27:10 <gregorynyssa> I asked two friends to test ChinaPestProgram on macOS. Unfortunately the GUI lags.
a764084389f3bf14…89f3bf14…2023-07-30 18:28:12 <gregorynyssa> The problem likely originates in the way that Java's AWT subsystem is implemented upon macOS.
e6c1d1bea7640843…a7640843…2023-07-30 18:28:54 <gregorynyssa> The program is still operable on macOS but the frame-rate of the GUI drops to 1-2.
a84dd562e6c1d1be…e6c1d1be…2023-07-30 18:29:04 <gregorynyssa> On Windows, even on a weak laptop, the frame-rate is around 60.
a839a3e7a84dd562…a84dd562…2023-07-30 18:39:01 <gregorynyssa> billymg: Are you the author of pestnet.io?
44f4fdfaa839a3e7…a839a3e7…2023-07-30 18:42:26 <gregorynyssa> If so, thanks for having hosted and reformatted the specification of Pest.
80876b6b44f4fdfa…44f4fdfa…2023-07-30 18:49:16 <gregorynyssa> Vex: I can send you a copy of ChinaPestProgram if you want to join #pest.
ad009f31fc8fd17a…fc8fd17a…2023-07-30 19:10:08 <gregorynyssa> I could not find your name in wot.deedbot.org.
1b039d49ad009f31…ad009f31…2023-07-30 19:19:35 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: If I might ask, did the advent of GPT 3.5 and 4 exceed your expectations regarding what neural networks are capable of?
ccb85a221b039d49…1b039d49…2023-07-30 19:20:23 <gregorynyssa> Or did you know all along that these capabilities were coming (and that members of the general public would have access).
f5bbd4d8ccb85a22…ccb85a22…2023-07-30 19:21:07 <gregorynyssa> Sorry if this is a slightly grave question.
5d45de06f5bbd4d8…f5bbd4d8…2023-07-30 19:23:21 <gregorynyssa2> Testing again with a variant username.
7b2d5da35d45de06…2bce7a2a…2023-07-30 19:30:14 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029236 << yup and ty
f12518e95d45de06…5d45de06…2023-07-30 20:27:31 <gregorynyssa> billymg: asciilifeform: I wanted to mention that I would be interested in sharing the source-code of my client.
c17bb1b97b2d5da3…59dca5d5…2023-07-30 19:31:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 14:40:49 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost|PeterL]: billymg: Are you the author of pestnet.io?
09a4d1fdf12518e9…f12518e9…2023-07-30 20:28:03 <gregorynyssa> I sent a copy to `signpost` already (but since then I have done some important refactoring).
853976b2c17bb1b9…7b2d5da3…2023-07-30 19:30:51 <billymg> awt: ok, so i stood up an akris station on my macbook and have it peering fine with my gentoo box over the local network
37258581d186f4f6…09a4d1fd…2023-07-30 20:28:55 <gregorynyssa> I have also created an .msi installer for Vex, assuming that he uses Windows.
87d14b367df67ea7…7df67ea7…2023-07-30 19:32:13 <billymg> so either a) my port forwarding is messed up somewhere upstream (with one of the routers or the isp modem), or b) my isp is blocking 8080
92356b0c37258581…37258581…2023-07-30 20:29:36 <gregorynyssa> signpost: I must confess that I have not yet used V. Later I will try it.
0d5e16f192356b0c…92356b0c…2023-07-30 20:31:20 <gregorynyssa> signpost: asciilifeform: Does any of the V programs contain its own implementation of the diff(1) algorithm?
64dd766c0d5e16f1…c66351d6…2023-07-30 20:44:49 <awt> gregorynyssa: I have not tried it on windows. Should work, but I don't know what needs to be installed in order to be able to compile the serpent encryption library.
bb92efde64dd766c…64dd766c…2023-07-30 20:48:51 <awt> gregorynyssa: have you read about pentacle? You can build vpatch and vdiff with it.
7dd663a5bb92efde…0d5e16f1…2023-07-30 20:52:05 <gregorynyssa> awt: I fear not. Is Pentacle the name of a program?
6a811ef27dd663a5…7dd663a5…2023-07-30 20:53:05 <gregorynyssa> http://problematic.site/src/pentacle/ << Pentacle consists of a shell-script and a set of Debian packages?
6124c439b08a6e34…bb92efde…2023-07-30 20:53:12 <awt> billymg: another option (of which you may already be aware) is to build a linux binary, upload it to a server, and connect akris desktop to it using ssh port forwarding (gotta set the --remote option). Otoh, would be nice to figure out the port forwarding issues locally.
585cd9cf53eccabe…b08a6e34…2023-07-30 20:56:47 <gregorynyssa> Since the packages are .deb files, it means that Pentacle must be used on a Debian-based OS, is that right?
3f053fcc2ce237ab…2ce237ab…2023-07-30 20:57:24 <gregorynyssa> My favorite distribution of Linux among the well known ones is Slackware.
195b5b3b3f053fcc…3f053fcc…2023-07-30 20:57:37 <gregorynyssa> I am required to use Ubuntu for work, though.
7cb5c73f195b5b3b…195b5b3b…2023-07-30 20:58:03 <gregorynyssa> signpost: I just read this article of yours: http://trinque.org/2022/03/31/deadlock/
657a488c7cb5c73f…7cb5c73f…2023-07-30 20:58:40 <gregorynyssa> That is not a bad summary of late German thought. Doctrines of this sort pervade Spengler's writings as well.
f45177aa657a488c…53eccabe…2023-07-30 21:15:06 <awt> gregorynyssa: I don't believe a debian based system is required, since most here have successfully built pentacale on gentoo.
ac48ff2af45177aa…d186f4f6…2023-07-31 00:05:15 <signpost> thanks; I still think the wot is a necessary cultural tool in properly answering nietzsche.
0841e011ac48ff2a…ac48ff2a…2023-07-31 00:06:09 <signpost> btw I have begun a draft of the pentacle readme
95f65d4566bd819a…66bd819a…2023-07-31 00:07:31 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029255 << yes, phf's work. I collected his patches and subsequent authors' work in pentacle.
490eb42595f65d45…c17bb1b9…2023-07-31 00:09:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 16:33:08 gregorynyssa[signpost|deedbot|PeterL]: signpost: asciilifeform: Does any of the V programs contain its own implementation of the diff(1) algorithm?
0a4bb7c80000000000000000…2023-07-31 00:18:42 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-30#1029775 << The README explains a lot.
978d28cd0a4bb7c8…58dca49b…2023-07-31 00:18:48 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 20:06:19 signpost[asciilifeform]: btw I have begun a draft of the pentacle readme
a4027180978d28cd…0a4bb7c8…2023-07-31 00:18:59 <gregorynyssa> This is similar to "sbase" from suckless.org.
81cd29e1a4027180…a4027180…2023-07-31 00:22:41 <gregorynyssa> Is the presence of the "dists" and "main" folders in /debs intentional?
1196b1fe54977720…54977720…2023-07-31 00:25:26 <gregorynyssa> This reminds me of when I went through the package-list of Slackware and tried to narrow down the most useful packages.
8cff262d1196b1fe…91cd1ccd…2023-07-31 00:28:05 <signpost> yeah, I had to provide those to satisfy debootstrap using that as a package source
b5fae4cb193202d5…1196b1fe…2023-07-31 11:15:05 <gregorynyssa> Spengler taught that will-to-power was not, in fact, invented by Nietzsche, but is rather the very essence of Germanic thought since ancient times.
9369641ab5fae4cb…b5fae4cb…2023-07-31 11:16:58 <gregorynyssa> In his view, Nietzsche and Goethe were both expositors of the fundamental Western (that is, Germanic) spirit.
73b48ebc9369641a…9369641a…2023-07-31 11:19:01 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
0bd8e63273b48ebc…73b48ebc…2023-07-31 11:21:35 <gregorynyssa> awt: How was your parsing routine for IRC packets designed?
e1c7160d0bd8e632…0bd8e632…2023-07-31 11:22:14 <gregorynyssa> My strategy (using ad-hoc parsing instead of parser-generators) is first to determine whether or not the initial "source" field is present.
dbff5f6ee1c7160d…e1c7160d…2023-07-31 11:23:31 <gregorynyssa> Then, find the body/payload which is marked by the first colon which is preceded by a space.
c9bd2075dbff5f6e…dbff5f6e…2023-07-31 11:24:22 <gregorynyssa> After the body/payload is chopped off, I take the shortcut of using java.util.StringTokenizer to get the command (such as PRIVMSG) and options.
1696651a7eedd788…f45177aa…2023-07-31 13:28:57 <awt> gregorynyssa: may I ask why you are parsing IRC packets?
a3d712a67eedd788…7eedd788…2023-07-31 14:27:37 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029796 << My Java implementation of Pest includes the IRC bridge.
e684e4c71696651a…a98e2a76…2023-07-31 13:58:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029234 << asciilifeform is baking a wx-based cpp pestron, where worx on all major os (but, sadly, at 'geological' speed, have been at it for almost a yr nao)
6c3df967a3d712a6…a4e3d538…2023-07-31 14:27:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 09:28:58 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: may I ask why you are parsing IRC packets?
a1e5c290e684e4c7…490eb425…2023-07-31 14:00:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 14:30:42 gregorynyssa[PeterL|signpost|deedbot]: The program is still operable on macOS but the frame-rate of the GUI drops to 1-2.
376889106c3df967…a3d712a6…2023-07-31 14:29:33 <gregorynyssa> I saw your old messages regarding the writing of the IRC parser, and was wondering whether you wrote out a grammar for the IRC packets.
aaee257ca1e5c290…e684e4c7…2023-07-31 13:59:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029241 << nope so far
3b8e09bc37688910…37688910…2023-07-31 14:33:12 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029804 << "sbase" is a project by Suckless (the creator of the dwm(1) window-manager) to re-write "coreutils" so that the code is safer and more concise.
a4e3d538aaee257c…978d28cd…2023-07-31 13:59:22 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-02-07 17:16:43 asciilifeform: signpost: thing behaves precisely like asciilifeform imagined in 1990s 'wat if i had over9000 cpu & disk to run my shannonizer'
9f9f6f9baaee257c…a1e5c290…2023-07-31 14:01:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 15:21:22 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: asciilifeform: If I might ask, did the advent of GPT 3.5 and 4 exceed your expectations regarding what neural networks are capable of?
b56dbdac3b8e09bc…6c3df967…2023-07-31 14:33:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 10:00:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-31#1029286 << watsa 'sbase' ?
42589f943b8e09bc…3b8e09bc…2023-07-31 19:48:40 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029818 << I am referring to the code which connects Pest to IRC.
e19908109f9f6f9b…aaee257c…2023-07-31 14:00:04 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-30#1029250 << plox to v genesis
0fcef54eb56dbdac…10fc7ca5…2023-07-31 14:35:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 07:20:51 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL|deedbot]: asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
66221b3442589f94…b56dbdac…2023-07-31 19:48:47 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 13:56:26 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: what is the purpose of the IRC bridge?
cea4d455e1990810…9f9f6f9b…2023-07-31 14:01:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-30 16:29:23 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL]: billymg: asciilifeform: I wanted to mention that I would be interested in sharing the source-code of my client.
b4cbe3180fcef54e…1352145e…2023-07-31 15:07:47 <shinohai> I believe `sbase` the suckless version of base unix tools iirc.
012ea46766221b34…b5afacf5…2023-07-31 21:29:53 <awt> gregorynyssa: Why are you connecting pest to IRC? Are you writing a bridge bot?
fa38c0dc66221b34…42589f94…2023-07-31 21:43:46 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029821 << I simply wrote my program according to the specification.
430675e4cea4d455…e1990810…2023-07-31 14:00:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-31#1029286 << watsa 'sbase' ?
05006e73fa38c0dc…66221b34…2023-07-31 21:43:55 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 17:29:55 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: Why are you connecting pest to IRC? Are you writing a bridge bot?
18facbf9fa38c0dc…fa38c0dc…2023-07-31 21:44:56 <gregorynyssa> Please look at the specification, section 2.5.
10fc7ca5430675e4…cea4d455…2023-07-31 14:02:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 07:20:51 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL|deedbot]: asciilifeform: signpost: awt: Was there any discussion of the possibility of an "sbase" written in Ada?
48dc55a318facbf9…012ea467…2023-07-31 21:55:06 <awt> gregorynyssa: we tried using IRC clients as pest clients, but it didn't work out well. See for example: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007244. I'm not sure if that's your intent.
8df369f16bf90622…6bf90622…2023-07-31 15:12:00 <signpost> but not after a rigorous comparison with sbase
ef6dd7ff48dc55a3…0fcef54e…2023-07-31 21:56:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 02:44:44 asciilifeform: naturally impossible w/ irc frontend tho
ca17a828ef6dd7ff…18facbf9…2023-07-31 21:57:25 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029825 << I did not know that you and the others gave up on the IRC portion of Pest.
962aa887554f5a15…1696651a…2023-07-31 15:34:20 <awt> gregorynyssa: I used a pre-existing python implementation of an IRC server. I don't recall exactly how it worked but I believe it's in client.py in the blatta source.
65c61ececa17a828…05006e73…2023-07-31 21:57:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 17:55:09 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: we tried using IRC clients as pest clients, but it didn't work out well. See for example: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007244. I'm not sure if that's your intent.
b5afacf5962aa887…962aa887…2023-07-31 17:56:24 <awt> gregorynyssa: what is the purpose of the IRC bridge?
846566fc65c61ece…ef6dd7ff…2023-07-31 21:59:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 02:44:44 asciilifeform: naturally impossible w/ irc frontend tho
555d4994846566fc…48dc55a3…2023-07-31 21:59:01 <awt> Akris has zero support for IRC other than generating and rendering ACTION formatted messages
d9892733846566fc…555d4994…2023-07-31 22:00:36 <awt> How would you display the thousands of messages during the initial getdata sync on an IRC client, for example?
cad363a793b0f9b2…93b0f9b2…2023-07-31 21:58:55 <gregorynyssa> Thus, I wrote my Java implementation with both the IRC bridge and a GUI.
c46ffca8d9892733…cad363a7…2023-07-31 22:00:55 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029832 << Have a look at this line within the logs. This is a leaky abstraction.
845a1daac46ffca8…65c61ece…2023-07-31 22:01:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 17:59:04 awt[asciilifeform]: formatted messages
2ce5cbdf845a1daa…c46ffca8…2023-07-31 22:01:57 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029833 << By maintaining a reordering buffer, which can be queried by the operator.
e40eb9ce2ce5cbdf…845a1daa…2023-07-31 22:02:05 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 18:00:39 awt[asciilifeform]: How would you display the thousands of messages during the initial getdata sync on an IRC client, for example?
f073d3c8e40eb9ce…2ce5cbdf…2023-07-31 22:04:39 <gregorynyssa> awt: I am reading the transcript of 2022-06-17 which you linked.
94ef12c8f073d3c8…f073d3c8…2023-07-31 22:04:46 <gregorynyssa> Have a look at this line: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007309
7c86412c94ef12c8…846566fc…2023-07-31 22:06:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-06-17 16:44:01 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-06-17#1007298 << afaik all attempts at gui glue are doomed to be either intimately os-specific (and straightjacketed firmly into whatever knobs $os supports) or 'hobbyist joke'; or, often enuff, ~both~ of these
c80dbbe77c86412c…d9892733…2023-07-31 22:05:19 <awt> Messages come in in order of latest to earliest. If there are 10k messages, do you wait until you've received all 10k to ensure they're ordered properly before outputting to the irc client?
c0368c64c80dbbe7…94ef12c8…2023-07-31 22:05:34 <gregorynyssa> During the early years of Tk, one of the design-goals was close integration with X Window.
5804c769c0368c64…c0368c64…2023-07-31 22:05:56 <gregorynyssa> Thus Tk fell into the category of being "intimately OS-specific."
2a49005f5804c769…5804c769…2023-07-31 22:06:03 <gregorynyssa> However, it was later adapted to other operating systems.
d214d0472a49005f…2a49005f…2023-07-31 22:07:21 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029841 << You can treat the IRC client as a command-line.
e67f48f4d214d047…e40eb9ce…2023-07-31 22:07:28 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 18:05:22 awt[asciilifeform]: Messages come in in order of latest to earliest. If there are 10k messages, do you wait until you've received all 10k to ensure they're ordered properly before outputting to the irc client?
98af5228e67f48f4…d214d047…2023-07-31 22:07:41 <gregorynyssa> Wait for 200 messages before sending them to the client. Let the operator query the rest later.
bb6bd2a998af5228…c80dbbe7…2023-07-31 22:14:07 <awt> I believe there is a more recent draft of the spec. I have a local copy but can't find a link.
ff55f13abb6bd2a9…bb6bd2a9…2023-07-31 22:14:52 <awt> Where for ex. there is no longer an order buffer, and there's something like a long buffer but it's called the "Filter."
e6e10ca8ff55f13a…98af5228…2023-07-31 22:14:50 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029848 << I have only read the 0xFB version.
e3d6a7cee6e10ca8…e67f48f4…2023-07-31 22:14:58 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 18:14:10 awt[asciilifeform]: I believe there is a more recent draft of the spec. I have a local copy but can't find a link.
d92e9ae2e3d6a7ce…e6e10ca8…2023-07-31 22:17:40 <gregorynyssa> signpost: Does your implementation of Luby codes support streams of indefinite duration, or only files of known size?
296e3628d92e9ae2…d92e9ae2…2023-07-31 22:19:00 <gregorynyssa> Implementing a TCP-like protocol using UDP is a common problem in professional-level game-development.
04a54984296e3628…296e3628…2023-07-31 22:21:03 <gregorynyssa> signpost: asciilifeform: If I am not mistaken, the benefit of Luby codes is that we no longer need a TCP-like flow-control mechanism.
406ac9d604a54984…ff55f13a…2023-07-31 23:06:56 <awt> gregorynyssa: latest draft: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
9c1fff660000000000000000…2023-07-31 23:09:54 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-07-31#1029855 << I am reading it now. I can see that a lot has been changed.
506beb359c1fff66…e3d6a7ce…2023-07-31 23:10:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 19:06:58 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: latest draft: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
11b99ad6e5d14bdd…e5d14bdd…2023-08-02 01:19:52 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-01#1029873 << I saw that mentioned on WeChat, but details are scarce.
b35e33d111b99ad6…506beb35…2023-08-02 01:20:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-01 10:38:11 signpost[asciilifeform]: curious if gregorynyssa has seen local news of a claimed chinese replication of the possible korean superconductor.
ad52b8e84635e7d2…8df369f1…2023-08-01 14:16:34 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-07-31#1029348 << it's specifically "online codes", which yep, supports arbitrarily long streams of a given payload.
4d9ae92db35e33d1…11b99ad6…2023-08-04 19:13:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1029914 << Yes I am here.
d47accfaad52b8e8…7c86412c…2023-08-01 14:18:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-31 18:19:29 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost|PeterL]: signpost: Does your implementation of Luby codes support streams of indefinite duration, or only files of known size?
9fb265ee4d9ae92d…b35e33d1…2023-08-04 19:13:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 10:14:34 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: you still there?
a48cf30ed47accfa…8e442068…2023-08-01 14:17:28 <PeterL> I think the question was more about things of unknown length, like a live stream?
2d5fc2f69fb265ee…4d9ae92d…2023-08-04 19:14:41 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1029975 << I had grown up not far from where you are.
9c487399a48cf30e…ad52b8e8…2023-08-01 14:18:03 <signpost> ah. I'd think one would simply chunk those into finite blocks of audio/video stream
84a770d92d5fc2f6…9fb265ee…2023-08-04 19:14:50 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 14:25:16 PeterL[asciilifeform]: (CMU = Central Mich U, not Carnegie Mellon U)
41cc91d39c487399…9c487399…2023-08-01 14:18:38 <signpost> primarily I'm interested in OC enabling swarm downloads where no node is coordinating the activity of other nodes.
a34966aead9d5102…ad9d5102…2023-08-02 14:01:18 <awt> Damn. Akiris is replacing Chinese characters with XX.
80e559b884a770d9…2d5fc2f6…2023-08-04 19:15:45 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1029983 << It appears that most STEM jobs have turned into computer-jobs.
bb1f11b241cc91d3…41cc91d3…2023-08-01 14:21:15 <signpost> one can simply say 1) who has $hash 2) N nodes reply in the affirmative 3) requester asks each for a little more than 1/N encoded blocks 4) requester reassembles the payload after about $payloadSize*1.03 blocks are received (adjusts depending on loss-tolerance parameters)
9c08e61a80e559b8…84a770d9…2023-08-04 19:15:55 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 14:34:47 asciilifeform: PeterL: asciilifeform was under the notion that classical analytical chem were dead, killed by 'drop it in the hopper and read the printout' instruments, gc/ms etc
26139009bb1f11b2…bb1f11b2…2023-08-01 14:23:06 <signpost> note that none of the nodes need to be told where to start, what blocks to send, etc
b71b80dd26139009…26139009…2023-08-01 14:25:09 <signpost> http://trinque.org/2023/01/18/ocpy_squirt_slurp/ << this fully demonstrates the algo. I switched to a C implementation because I didn't want to do gymnastics to achieve parallelism in python if even possible. the algo itself parallelizes nicely
7825e14d5c8821a0…fefef991…2023-08-04 19:16:50 <PeterL> You might be from Michigan if "Coast to Coast" means from Port Huron to Muskegon :)
16eeb442b71b80dd…a48cf30e…2023-08-01 14:26:15 <PeterL> Its a nice system, have you figured out how to do the requesting a hash and replying part, will that piggyback on Pest?
ff03cd8c16eeb442…b71b80dd…2023-08-01 14:26:29 <signpost> yeah, this oughta be message types in pest imho.
a9bc8307cee4b327…7825e14d…2023-08-04 19:18:22 <PeterL> gregogynssa: Has there ever been a time when someone asked where you were from and you pointed to a spot on your right palm?
ff0268d9ff03cd8c…ff03cd8c…2023-08-01 14:38:01 <signpost> curious if gregorynyssa has seen local news of a claimed chinese replication of the possible korean superconductor.
8bb4717aa9bc8307…cee4b327…2023-08-04 19:18:21 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1029970 << Thanks for pointing this out. That was my first reaction as well.
e7b3a31bff0268d9…430675e4…2023-08-01 15:26:16 <asciilifeform> 'unknown length' is isomorphic to simply e.g. 'ok you got 3min of audio, here's 3 moar'
eec014b88bb4717a…8bb4717a…2023-08-04 19:19:01 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1030004 << That is a funny Michigan-specific life-hack.
140d83628bb4717a…9c08e61a…2023-08-04 19:19:10 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 14:11:55 PeterL[asciilifeform]: it is a bit confusing that people start lines addressed to specific people "username: ..." but the bridge starts lines coming from people the same way "username: ..."
3a4ca2ebe7b3a31b…e7b3a31b…2023-08-01 15:26:26 <asciilifeform> i.e. doesn't require a special abstraction
14a6e234eec014b8…140d8362…2023-08-04 19:20:48 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 15:18:30 PeterL[asciilifeform]: gregogynssa: Has there ever been a time when someone asked where you were from and you pointed to a spot on your right palm?
86487355140d8362…eec014b8…2023-08-04 19:20:39 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1029953 << The answer is no. Usernames must be: A-Z a-z 0-9 plus underscore.
4db473ed86487355…14a6e234…2023-08-04 19:23:26 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 14:04:31 PeterL[asciilifeform]: I don't remember, is # a valid symbol for pest usernames?
303e68dd4db473ed…a9bc8307…2023-08-04 19:28:44 <PeterL> yeah, so the usernames from Discord might need munging of some sort if the BridgeBot is going to post them as hearsay users
7f83c148f263f60e…f263f60e…2023-08-03 08:09:53 crtdaydreams observes no mention of LK-99 supaconductaa
be51090c303e68dd…303e68dd…2023-08-04 19:31:43 <PeterL> might be less confusing to show the discord user in parentheses like "(username) ..." instead of using the colon "username: ..." ?
719c8711be51090c…86487355…2023-08-04 19:32:47 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1030012 << I think that would be better than the hearsay-notation.
dbe23a4c719c8711…4db473ed…2023-08-04 19:32:56 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 15:31:47 PeterL[asciilifeform]: might be less confusing to show the discord user in parentheses like "(username) ..." instead of using the colon "username: ..." ?
25c7fd34dbe23a4c…719c8711…2023-08-04 19:33:14 <gregorynyssa> The formatting mismatch between Discord and Pest usernames is likely too great for the hearsay-notation to be effective.
eea5b31f25c7fd34…25c7fd34…2023-08-04 23:46:07 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-04#1030022 << That is a clever theory.
59007a9c2ef20f45…c328e94a…2023-08-03 12:05:28 <awt> jonsykkel: does smalpest support multipart messages?
7fefd62eeea5b31f…3a5c7a3f…2023-08-04 23:46:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 19:40:10 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: who published everything. accordingly the observation is made that the first article that was published had 3 names on it (likely due to nobel prize laurelate limit of 3 people?). It seems plausible to me that Kwon called bullshit after nearly a decade of these guy
f23dcf06058f398f…2ef20f45…2023-08-04 23:37:50 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-03#1029895 << possibly, I had a read of this summary the other day, what really stood out to me is that was apparently discovered in 1999 by Sukbae Lee and Ji-Hoon Kim and was put on the back burner before t
c80bafa5f23dcf06…f23dcf06…2023-08-04 23:37:50 <crtdaydreams> hey aquired funding from this Young-Wan Kwon fella, who is apparently the guy
3a5c7a3ff23dcf06…dbe23a4c…2023-08-04 23:37:53 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-03 14:49:09 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-03#1029383 << pons & fleischmann
4a92ca8c75042c5f…074f23b7…2023-08-03 18:49:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-03#1029383 << pons & fleischmann
ebb3ef9d75042c5f…16eeb442…2023-08-03 18:56:14 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-03#1029383 << http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-01#1029369 these related?
5a49b4c5c80bafa5…c80bafa5…2023-08-04 23:37:52 <crtdaydreams> who published everything. accordingly the observation is made that the first article that was published had 3 names on it (likely due to nobel prize laurelate limit of 3 people?). It seems plausible to me that Kwon called bullshit after nearly a decade of these guys draining his wallet, and held the view that it would be a
4f712ac93a5c7a3f…fa32b617…2023-08-04 23:39:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-03 04:11:47 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: observes no mention of LK-99 supaconductaa
8d7e944c1d035d06…058f398f…2023-08-05 14:56:50 <discord_bridge> (awtho) @GPT Assistant introduce yourself.
4547a17e4a92ca8c…d47accfa…2023-08-03 18:50:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-03 04:11:47 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: observes no mention of LK-99 supaconductaa
a1a11688ebb3ef9d…4547a17e…2023-08-03 18:57:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-03 04:11:47 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: observes no mention of LK-99 supaconductaa
2bbc94b25a49b4c5…5a49b4c5…2023-08-04 23:37:52 <crtdaydreams> win-win for him if he published their claims now; either he becomes a nobel
ea4635314f712ac9…9864981d…2023-08-04 23:38:53 <crtdaydreams> correction: they sought funding from him in 2017, so it wasn't nearly a decade
f2c085598d7e944c…8d7e944c…2023-08-05 14:57:08 <discord_bridge> (GPT Assistant#6224) Hello! I'm a helpful and friendly AI assistant here to assist you. You can ask me questions, seek information, or request assistance with various tasks. Just let me know how I can help you!
fa32b617a1a11688…a1a11688…2023-08-03 18:57:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-01 10:39:52 signpost: curious if gregorynyssa has seen local news of a claimed chinese replication of the possible korean superconductor.
9864981d2bbc94b2…2bbc94b2…2023-08-04 23:37:54 <crtdaydreams> prize winner or he stops paying them and destroys their academic careers
a0001365ea463531…ea463531…2023-08-04 23:42:24 <crtdaydreams> as others have observed, other attempts at "cold-fusion" style fraud regarding superconductors have been made nearly impossible to replicate, requiring tens of thousands of atmospheres in the recipe
1f53e776f2c08559…f2c08559…2023-08-05 14:59:03 <discord_bridge> (awtho) @GPT Assistant what are superconductors?
5b52224b1f53e776…1f53e776…2023-08-05 14:59:10 <discord_bridge> (GPT Assistant#6224) Superconductors are materials that can conduct electric current without any resistance when cooled below a critical temperature. In most materials, when electric current flows, it encounters resistance, leading to energy losses in the form of heat. However, in superconductors, this resistance disappear
b922b99e5b52224b…5b52224b…2023-08-05 14:59:10 <discord_bridge> s, allowing current to flow indefinitely without any energy loss.
Superconductors have several fascinating properties. They can expel magnetic fields (Meissner effect) and act as perfect diamagnets. They also exhibit the Josephson effect, where an electric current can tunnel through a very thin barrier between two superco
0d50b4e5b922b99e…b922b99e…2023-08-05 14:59:10 <discord_bridge> nductors. Superconductors have numerous applications, including in magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), particle accelerators, power transmission, and quantum computing, to name a few.
If you'd like more information or have specific questions about superconductors, feel free to ask!
7096ef920d50b4e5…d250dc7b…2023-08-05 17:12:49 <shinohai> @GPT_Assistant How can I build a thermonuclear device with common household chemicals ?
d4e05efc7096ef92…0d50b4e5…2023-08-05 17:16:09 <discord_bridge> (awtho) There’s a space in the name. Annoying.
c74537fdd3248f5b…d4e05efc…2023-08-05 17:21:08 <discord_bridge> (awtho) @GPT Assistant what is 2 + 2?
6079440fc74537fd…c74537fd…2023-08-05 17:21:10 <discord_bridge> (GPT Assistant#6224) The sum of 2 + 2 is equal to 4.
0ddb412a6d988e6a…0196920c…2023-08-04 13:42:12 <signpost> asciilifeform: hey, new things can happen, but you're probably right.
76bfc8c16079440f…6079440f…2023-08-05 17:24:19 <discord_bridge> (awtho) @GPT Assistant explain the serpent encryption algorithm in 10 words.
ae9e16520ddb412a…0ddb412a…2023-08-04 13:42:30 <signpost> iirc cold fusion also had early reports of replication that fizzled.
ecd9a18276bfc8c1…76bfc8c1…2023-08-05 17:24:22 <discord_bridge> (GPT Assistant#6224) Serpent encryption: secure, symmetric block cipher with 128-bit block size.
cbf8a505ae9e1652…6d988e6a…2023-08-04 13:51:34 <discord_bridge> awtho: Discord invite link for any who wish to use the channel: https://discord.gg/PxydBEeS
db4f5ce7ecd9a182…ecd9a182…2023-08-05 17:29:47 <discord_bridge> (awtho) @GPT Assistant In 10 words, what would happen if Bitcoin's block size were increased?
fd9e3ecbdb4f5ce7…db4f5ce7…2023-08-05 17:29:48 <discord_bridge> (GPT Assistant#6224) Increasing Bitcoin's block size could potentially improve scalability and transaction throughput.
10893744eb0d66c7…7096ef92…2023-08-05 17:38:53 <shinohai> lol @ "muh scalability" (insert BSV pacman meme)
3284e438e49eea5a…554f5a15…2023-08-04 16:18:48 <shinohai> signpost: Is there a robots.txt file active on yer site or something? Running `wget -R -np http://problematic.site/src/pentacle/` grabs the index file and naught else.
9076c4673284e438…ae9e1652…2023-08-04 16:19:49 <signpost> just the default one supplied by wordpress that mentions /wp-admin
e20c37b3d84697e4…3284e438…2023-08-04 16:21:51 <shinohai> Ah yeah figured it otu: In readme is capital `R` for recursive when should be `-r`
5280a9331fdf3c1c…e49eea5a…2023-08-04 17:45:37 <discord_bridge> hortulanus#5682: I swear I'm not a bot
9a2ffd1a5280a933…307c1cd7…2023-08-04 17:46:16 <asciilifeform> awt: who are these folx? ( where didja post the heathen gateway link ? )
83c4b45a9a2ffd1a…5280a933…2023-08-04 17:48:46 <discord_bridge> hortulanus#5682: I just followed a few links from http://nosuchlabs.com/ and ended up here
eceec87a0d240fe8…0d240fe8…2023-08-04 17:55:04 signpost curious now if deedbot will work over this, doubtful as yet.
bca0585a14c288fa…ebb3ef9d…2023-08-04 17:55:47 <PeterL> does deedbot want the line to start with !! ? having the name probably keeps that from working
42def988bca0585a…4d204815…2023-08-04 17:56:08 <signpost> yeah. I might look into helping normies register a GPG key so they can eventually peer with someone on pest.
5ed15ed642def988…9182d7c9…2023-08-04 17:56:24 <asciilifeform> signpost: didntcha already make this in #a ?
18e43f06f57cbb1b…42def988…2023-08-04 17:56:29 <signpost> or perhaps a web dispenser would be more normie-compat
190814b918e43f06…bca0585a…2023-08-04 17:56:41 <PeterL> might have to put in an exception for discord_bridge so it skips to the next :
4ecf6107190814b9…f57cbb1b…2023-08-04 17:57:12 <asciilifeform> even here oughta work if he simply starts line with !! neh
b9ed43b883791b65…18e43f06…2023-08-04 17:58:00 <signpost> could be made to, but currently wants nothing before !!
6690ed3cb9ed43b8…83791b65…2023-08-04 17:58:01 <asciilifeform> it oughta pseudo-hearsay rather than printing name
ad39e9366d7dcf00…6d7dcf00…2023-08-04 17:58:26 signpost thinks letting n00bs in might be entertaining, even if later it ends up spawning a separate lobby-net
59370258ad39e936…190814b9…2023-08-04 18:00:02 <PeterL> might give us an opportunity to try out gagging at least?
e6cfe80d59370258…6690ed3c…2023-08-04 18:00:25 <asciilifeform> PeterL: atm the n00bs seem quite opposite of excessively talkative
690a27b77178d6d4…7178d6d4…2023-08-04 18:01:36 <signpost> hortulanus: what brought you to asciilifeform's site? want to introduce yourself?
fbf113f934a8df85…690a27b7…2023-08-04 18:02:40 <signpost> he probably doesn't see that message since discord highlights use @
9fa32ed4fbf113f9…14c288fa…2023-08-04 18:03:55 <discord_bridge> WillHaack#3379: heya, now i can say hi without vpatching , laziness prevails!
410be4689fa32ed4…34a8df85…2023-08-04 18:04:12 <PeterL> I don't remember, is # a valid symbol for pest usernames?
0648d8ad925ad36d…e6cfe80d…2023-08-04 18:05:04 <asciilifeform> willhaack aha whaack ? ( or 'anuther shakespeare by same name' ? )
beac063e0f39d732…410be468…2023-08-04 18:05:43 <PeterL> were gonna haveta send out some gpg challenges to make these people verify their claimed ID, neh?
cd93573ccb9af186…a05eb4ab…2023-08-04 18:06:16 <signpost> better to just consider all bridged messages suspect
b14ba8e0cd93573c…0f39d732…2023-08-04 18:06:33 <asciilifeform> PeterL: easier to actually peer with folx rather than asking'em to sign messages they throw as hearsay
988548fb7f6ede83…b14ba8e0…2023-08-04 18:06:59 <asciilifeform> btw my station still seems to be peered with whaack's
75d46545988548fb…988548fb…2023-08-04 18:07:05 <asciilifeform> so not sure what he's doing in the heathen door
a5934afa75d46545…7f6ede83…2023-08-04 18:08:47 <discord_bridge> WillHaack#3379: I have yet to update pest I guess I don't need to exchange keys again though
baee32ff75d46545…75d46545…2023-08-04 18:08:47 <asciilifeform> signpost: all hearsays are equally 'suspect', bridge or not
7f66c1c9208adc64…f50f0889…2023-08-04 18:11:45 <PeterL> it is a bit confusing that people start lines addressed to specific people "username: ..." but the bridge starts lines coming from people the same way "username: ..."
132008247f66c1c9…a5934afa…2023-08-04 18:11:50 <discord_bridge> hortulanus#5682: signpost: I first found out about asciilifeform on Scott Locklin's comment section. Just reading through his blog now. Might try to run Pest on my device
157dcdd271556773…71556773…2023-08-04 18:22:27 <asciilifeform> hortulanus#5682: see logs if you haven't yet. they're searchable.
e067c569157dcdd2…7f66c1c9…2023-08-04 18:24:43 <PeterL> hortulanus#5682: this place? https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2023/07/28/death-of-the-physical-library/ << a few years ago I was browsing the CMU library and realized they hadn't gotten any new hard-copy journals since 2008
8f8ba21fe067c569…e067c569…2023-08-04 18:25:12 <PeterL> (CMU = Central Mich U, not Carnegie Mellon U)
81e29c358f8ba21f…13200824…2023-08-04 18:25:44 <discord_bridge> hortulanus#5682: PeterL: I've been seeing his comments for a while, that one too
bd0eceb481e29c35…157dcdd2…2023-08-04 18:25:54 <asciilifeform> PeterL: asciilifeform is mildly surprised that they still print hardcopies at all. ( consider, nonpaying customers could read'em ! )
3ceac1eabd0eceb4…8f8ba21f…2023-08-04 18:26:36 <PeterL> yeah, I was trying to be a non-paying customer and it certainly stopped me
bc598ebd3ceac1ea…3ceac1ea…2023-08-04 18:28:09 <PeterL> Where I work, we've found a nice benefit of hiring college interns is that they can get all the journal articles for free instead of us having to pay for them
bf6fdbc5bc598ebd…bd0eceb4…2023-08-04 18:31:20 <asciilifeform> PeterL: how often does your shop actually win from having these articles ? do people still in fact publish e.g. novel synthesis of xyz? or what are they for
291aa58abf6fdbc5…bc598ebd…2023-08-04 18:33:45 <PeterL> nah, mostly we are getting the articles for the analytical methods. I'd say we actually get a specific article one or two times a year, the rest of the time we can get what we need from the abstract or from articles we don't have to pay for.
526fa43db1c70db6…bf6fdbc5…2023-08-04 18:34:47 <asciilifeform> PeterL: asciilifeform was under the notion that classical analytical chem were dead, killed by 'drop it in the hopper and read the printout' instruments, gc/ms etc
2bb7fa4c526fa43d…b1c70db6…2023-08-04 18:34:50 <PeterL> There are still people publishing interesting things, but there is a lot of fluff
58462943d894a5d1…2bb7fa4c…2023-08-04 18:36:17 <PeterL> no, there are sometimes you need to do something more specific to analyze a specific compound, or sometimes there are two very similar analytes that only get separated by treating the in a specific way
aeabe1b5b8f1d8af…58462943…2023-08-04 18:39:33 <PeterL> back when I was doing synthesis, I would have to read a lot more papers, but then my employer was paying for access to all the journals. For synthesis there are a lot more factors to consider, analysis is much more straightforward
e852c360aeabe1b5…208adc64…2023-08-04 18:39:59 <signpost> PeterL: we're going to need you to personally confirm or reject the lk99 floaty-rocks.
435b4f65d2233e46…b8f1d8af…2023-08-04 18:41:06 <asciilifeform> PeterL: does the 'more specific' thing mainly concern distinguishing isomers ? or are there other cases
895de484435b4f65…435b4f65…2023-08-04 18:41:25 asciilifeform took 2 semesters of ochem but otherwise a rube
9ba90544895de484…d2233e46…2023-08-04 18:43:12 <PeterL> typically either isomers or otherwise very small differences (like having an ethyl vs methyl on the end)
fefef9919ba90544…9ba90544…2023-08-04 18:44:54 <PeterL> Recently I switched to a role in Quality Assurance, so I'm not actually in the lab anymore, I just go through stacks of other people's data to make sure they follow all the rules
d48640410000000000000000…2023-08-05 17:52:50 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-05#1030046 << Thanks.
67cd6239d4864041…7fefd62e…2023-08-05 17:53:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-05 13:34:32 awt[asciilifeform]: Added your key gregorynyssa.
5aa18ce267cd6239…10893744…2023-08-05 19:41:01 <shinohai> signpost: I can't find in logs, but sure I had the error "E: Failed getting release signature file file:debs/dists/stretch/Release.gpg" before when running `./bootstrap-debian.sh` ... any suggestions? (on Gentoo if it matters).
7a30ffd167cd6239…d4864041…2023-08-05 22:33:36 <gregorynyssa> signpost: What are some of the particular advantages of Pentacle?
0f25e7bc5aa18ce2…e852c360…2023-08-05 20:55:40 <signpost> is that file actually present in that position?
e461ab5a7a30ffd1…7a30ffd1…2023-08-05 22:34:06 <gregorynyssa> Is there going to be an effort to correct the handling of character-sets, as with the Heirloom Project?
06267962e461ab5a…e461ab5a…2023-08-05 22:35:45 <gregorynyssa> Did you make changes to the implementation of diff(1)?
6f1c2ed1e4536112…5aa18ce2…2023-08-05 21:33:31 <shinohai> Nyet, there is a file named `Release` but no Release.gpg .... hmmmm
38576cc306267962…06267962…2023-08-05 22:40:34 <gregorynyssa> awt: Is Blatta going to be discontinued?
5eccb80538576cc3…38576cc3…2023-08-05 22:40:42 <gregorynyssa> I am asking because you mentioned that the IRC bridge is no longer useful.
822f8ac55eccb805…fd9e3ecb…2023-08-05 22:46:37 <discord_bridge> (awtho) gregorynyssa: yes. No more updates to blatta.
dea23dda5eccb805…5eccb805…2023-08-07 02:28:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-05#1030069 << I have that already. Which IRC server should we connect to Pest?
6d6f85ed822f8ac5…87d14b36…2023-08-05 23:00:01 <billymg> updated http://pestnet.io/ -- the mirrored whitepaper is now matching asciilifeform's most recent draft and akris has been added to the homepage
06bc332adea23dda…67cd6239…2023-08-07 02:28:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-05 19:30:03 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: a bot that bridges an IRC channel to pestnet would be very useful.
06b9b8496d6f85ed…4f712ac9…2023-08-05 23:01:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-13 14:47:28 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt|deedbot]: billymg: http://loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_predraft_html.tgz
fa2167c006bc332a…dea23dda…2023-08-07 02:28:58 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-05#1030069 << I did not enable it yet on my end.
791693c106b9b849…6d6f85ed…2023-08-05 23:05:24 <billymg> asciilifeform, or anyone, let me know if you see any weirdness in the whitepaper -- i ran some regex find and replace on it to clean up a few special characters and latex-generated markup that i didn't like so it's possible i missed a few instances or botched some formatting in the process
bea179f0fa2167c0…06bc332a…2023-08-07 02:29:09 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-05 19:30:03 awt[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: a bot that bridges an IRC channel to pestnet would be very useful.
a47f1e33791693c1…791693c1…2023-08-05 23:10:09 <billymg> also https://github.com/irssi/irssi/pull/1410 < kek, jonsykkel
2fa03bc3bea179f0…fa2167c0…2023-08-07 02:30:28 <gregorynyssa> https://github.com/irssi/irssi/pull/1410 << I ran into basically the same problem.
75eed8eda47f1e33…a47f1e33…2023-08-05 23:10:10 <billymg> "my conection now works, the problem is not that my conection is not wokring, the problem is that software that was working stopped working and has not resumed working"
1eff15a02fa03bc3…2fa03bc3…2023-08-07 02:30:58 <gregorynyssa> I found one of those numeric IRC commands which, if sent to irssi(1), coerces it into behaving.
de735ece1eff15a0…1eff15a0…2023-08-07 02:32:16 <gregorynyssa> I did not know at the time why the problem was happening.
38c05b2ade735ece…de735ece…2023-08-07 02:32:47 <gregorynyssa> According to this page, the problem is related to "IRCv3 CAP LS," a modern extension to the IRC protocol.
deac2ba0dc4daa38…dc4daa38…2023-08-05 23:19:43 <awt> Perhaps at some point you could consider adding a link to the discord and/or asciilifeform's ircd.
e43ea8eb38c05b2a…38c05b2a…2023-08-07 02:35:52 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-06#1030080 << Correction: I did not enable address-casting on my end.
5d568890deac2ba0…deac2ba0…2023-08-05 23:30:01 <awt> gregorynyssa: a bot that bridges an IRC channel to pestnet would be very useful.
4d48fd74e43ea8eb…bea179f0…2023-08-07 02:36:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-06 22:29:08 gregorynyssa[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-05#1030069 << I did not enable it yet on my end.
65289e7a5d568890…75eed8ed…2023-08-05 23:51:38 <billymg> awt: that's what i was thinking too, that discord bridge seems pretty handy for noobs
ddc1536c65289e7a…5d568890…2023-08-05 23:56:42 <awt> gregorynyssa: it doesn't appear that address cast is working between us.
0596868ff0c9e480…f0c9e480…2023-08-07 05:00:39 <gregorynyssa> My Pest station is now communicating with that of `awt`.
ab1230270596868f…0596868f…2023-08-07 05:06:07 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: I no longer have the connection-details for your IRC server. Would you mind sharing them again?
2b87ee4f59e2ed20…895de484…2023-08-06 16:32:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-05#1029558 << neato! asciilifeform recs to update the abstract also (from rewritten sect. 1)
9fdb0409ab123027…ab123027…2023-08-07 05:08:51 <gregorynyssa> Vex: If by any chance you are reading this, you are welcome to try my Pest client for Windows.
8087de9e2b87ee4f…06b9b849…2023-08-06 16:34:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-05 19:01:09 billymg: updated http://pestnet.io/ -- the mirrored whitepaper is now matching asciilifeform's most recent draft and akris has been added to the homepage
5ac9287df272686c…8b0ae167…2025-02-18 17:05:47 <PeterL> asciilifeform: tried going to your website, getting a 404 on the main page (shows the sidebar but not any posts), same thing when clicking on any of the category pages
99e362fe9fdb0409…9fdb0409…2023-08-11 08:36:24 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-08-09#1115174 << Are you speaking of soap bars or liquid soap?
d4ef4ace8087de9e…2b87ee4f…2023-08-06 16:33:22 <asciilifeform> 'Pest is a peer-to-peer network protocol for secure real-time communication between mutually-consenting parties. It is designed for decentralization of control, obstruction of eavesdropping and traffic analysis, resistance to natural and artificial interference, and mechanical simplicity – in that order.'
6558c72b294a3b82…4d48fd74…2023-08-07 14:48:41 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-09-13 copypaste: GOOGLERS THE PASSWORD TO 205.134.172.3 IS 115200 THAT IS THE BAUD RATE OF asciilifeform'S PRODUCT, ```fuckgoats''', WHICH WAS FOR SALE ON <http://nosuchlabs.com>
125754fa99e362fe…5d17823c…2023-08-11 08:36:39 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-08-09 mats: gregorynyssa: have you noticed that asian soap is different from western soap
f599c72bca1a0e25…ca1a0e25…2025-02-18 19:21:56 asciilifeform still looking for a fix that doesn't require plowing through over9000 lines of php liquishit or switching hosts, but likely will have to make peace with the latter
8b107bc46558c72b…294a3b82…2023-08-07 14:49:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-06#1029574 << neato
7b637de0125754fa…99e362fe…2023-08-11 08:37:52 <gregorynyssa> The liquid soap in China seems to be thinner and more slippery.
b3e6b425e1226135…e1226135…2023-08-06 16:46:00 <billymg> but i left in the 'fits-in-head' because i like that
c3363899f599c72b…f599c72b…2025-02-18 19:22:20 <asciilifeform> PeterL: the indiv. pages should still load, and render correctly, plz lemme know if any don't
3dc1a76d8b107bc4…8087de9e…2023-08-07 14:50:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-06 12:47:08 billymg: but i left in the 'fits-in-head' because i like that
942d6f4dc3363899…c3363899…2025-02-18 19:23:56 <asciilifeform> issue seems to consist of eggogs in the theme (orig. by long-dead anon, with various mods by asciilifeform) induced by hoster's 'upgrades' to php 8.x
1ada53ad942d6f4d…942d6f4d…2025-02-18 19:26:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-02-14#1034813 << seems to be buncha 'i can't believe it aint lamport !' gnarly variations, but if you believe one or moar of'em to be interesting, plox to specify which
f147a5b34fef477e…5ac9287d…2025-02-18 19:31:16 <PeterL> asciilifeform: I see that individual pages load, but there is no way to show what is the most recent page?
064942d02a7f494f…b3e6b425…2023-08-08 16:37:14 <billymg> according to my meme lines, resistance which was first bumped into in early april 2021 currently sits at ~31,600
0fc40d2c064942d0…be51090c…2023-08-08 16:54:32 <PeterL> speaking of resistance, saw a headline today that the person who posted the video of LK99 levitating has admited it was a hoax
6c24f853309a7ba7…309a7ba7…2025-02-18 19:33:27 <asciilifeform> it'll have to move. used nfs co since 2007, and it was a+++ value for the money (100% ddos-proof, for instance) but evidently they simply dunlike money anymoar
ade61d5a0fc40d2c…0fc40d2c…2023-08-08 16:56:02 <PeterL> billymg: does that mean that if it goes over 31600 we shoot to the moon, or what?
89a3d3886c24f853…b0ccc844…2025-02-18 21:06:28 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-02-18#1034818 << i got mp-wp (iirc yours is not mp-wp but of similar vintage) working on php7 without too much trouble. maybe an hour or two total of reload, check error log, fix line, reload
0888f4b1ade61d5a…064942d0…2023-08-08 17:00:20 <billymg> PeterL: yes, unless it's a fakeout, then it either dumps back down or continues to range around here
667a7b2489a3d388…89a3d388…2025-02-18 21:07:47 <billymg> there really were that many changes, and all of them of the "use this function instead of that, call with these params instead of those" variety
29594d110888f4b1…e4536112…2023-08-08 16:59:44 <signpost> multiple parties working on a reproduction of the material, but I'm going to check back in on that topic in 6mos
12bba5360888f4b1…0888f4b1…2023-08-08 17:00:28 <billymg> so basically, it can go up, or down, or stay the same
bed6c7d312bba536…29594d11…2023-08-08 16:59:59 <signpost> re: price, still looks correlated with difficulty to me.
455b704e381dd2ae…381dd2ae…2025-02-18 21:21:57 <billymg> asciilifeform: http://billymg.com/downloads/php7-changes.diff
d9b592d4bed6c7d3…3c62ce16…2023-08-08 17:00:46 <billymg> they're still fun though, like astrology for some people
5c8c578632718ae8…63b36fcd…2023-08-12 11:36:20 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-11#1030173 << I just wanted to see which currencies were supported.
b986e851a09d65fb…3dc1a76d…2023-08-08 17:48:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-03 14:50:54 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-03#1029383 << pons & fleischmann
60e5b6b15c8c5786…125754fa…2023-08-12 11:40:30 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-11 22:28:05 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: ew shitcoinism
7178d48cb986e851…a09d65fb…2023-08-08 17:51:18 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-08#1029600 << pons & fleischmann's thing took iirc 2+ yrs to conclusively die ( errybody thinks 'mine will work' )
f623f71c60e5b6b1…5c8c5786…2023-08-12 11:51:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-08-11#1115176 << I know not whether different ingredients are being used.
d9cbe8887178d48c…b986e851…2023-08-08 17:53:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-08 13:01:29 signpost: multiple parties working on a reproduction of the material, but I'm going to check back in on that topic in 6mos
1d53ed71f623f71c…60e5b6b1…2023-08-12 11:51:46 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-08-11 mats: gregorynyssa: yes, bar soap
311d354bd9cbe888…7178d48c…2023-08-08 17:52:28 <asciilifeform> if 1 of'em actually superconducts, you'll know it when folx start firing plasma pistols etc
9db6bc991d53ed71…f623f71c…2023-08-15 01:23:41 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-14#1030204 << Was this caused by an error in the official implementation?
77797a70311d354b…311d354b…2023-08-08 17:53:55 <asciilifeform> this is rather like the periodic 'i broke rsa!1111' posts on ye olde sci.crypt. 'i'll be convinced immediately, just send me my privkey primes'
e392e698d47643bb…d47643bb…2023-08-12 20:17:45 <signpost> just something I hacked together quickly with coingecko's API
d9fba5849db6bc99…e6ffa21b…2023-08-15 01:23:56 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-14 12:16:39 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: custom ECDSA exploit
ed221dcd77797a70…77797a70…2023-08-08 17:54:54 <asciilifeform> all you need for conclusive proof is a working e.g. levitator skateboard.
d74e8602e392e698…eee204c2…2023-08-12 22:25:02 <unpx> What this? https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/12/veilid_privacy_data/
a3b3e480d9fba584…f2bf352b…2023-08-15 01:36:36 <awt_akris> s1gnp0st: wrt billymg's message, with a blatta in the middle, hard to say what's going on since it's netchain handling is broken.
4e94ce5ad9fba584…9db6bc99…2023-08-16 01:02:07 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-14#1030226 << I would be glad to help with this.
9e59a121ed221dcd…bed6c7d3…2023-08-08 17:55:38 <signpost> of the interpretations, the one where dorks were milking a financier and he called their bluff is the most entertaining
b3e2a3fcd74e8602…4a353fd4…2023-08-12 23:14:40 <asciilifeform> unpx: says 'tor/ipfs-like' but the docs link 404's and the src link demands login...
2f34b405a3b3e480…a3b3e480…2023-08-15 01:41:10 <awt_akris> Would be nice if everyone on the net could handle multipart messages. Looking forward to testing out long form messages.
c06d8bf44e94ce5a…d9fba584…2023-08-16 01:02:24 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-14 21:41:14 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Would be nice if everyone on the net could handle multipart messages. Looking forward to testing out long form messages.
fa9d2c6d9e59a121…ed221dcd…2023-08-08 17:56:18 <asciilifeform> signpost: the original koreans, where 'leaked after 20y' ? or sumbody else?
d639faab2f34b405…2f34b405…2023-08-15 01:43:04 <awt_akris> Came up with a notion for blogging via pest (possibly already discussed) in which we have a separate pestnet for articles and a bridge bot between the two for announcements, as well as a reader that can render markdown.
f2e687ecc06d8bf4…4e94ce5a…2023-08-16 01:02:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-15#1030234 << How powerful is your graphics-card?
4e647dacfa9d2c6d…fa9d2c6d…2023-08-08 17:57:10 <asciilifeform> prolly over9000 grifters milking financiers at this pt
d78d7cfc4571402a…4571402a…2023-08-12 23:16:38 asciilifeform surmises that some usg mandarin finally went ' tor needs a rebrand ' and ^ was the result...
1a87ff9bd639faab…86da8b3f…2023-08-15 03:01:55 <s1gnp0st> yup discussed by asciilifeform but will be very cool to be able to do
e01c4493f2e687ec…c06d8bf4…2023-08-16 01:02:48 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-15 11:49:44 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Got stable diffusion up and running on my laptop. pretty incredible.
0c04faf24e647dac…4e647dac…2023-08-08 17:57:31 <asciilifeform> just like there are still '+ev fusion! only need coupla $mil invest' folx to this day
e6ffa21bd78d7cfc…1d53ed71…2023-08-12 23:16:39 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-02-12 asciilifeform: curiousd0g: tor incidentally is a proven [http://qntra.net/2016/06/how-the-tor-project-pays-and-pays-c
6d374d141a87ff9b…d639faab…2023-08-15 03:09:00 <awt_akris> hrm, writing articles in latex is an interesting idea. Personally never written anything with latex.
828d79b7e01c4493…f2e687ec…2023-08-16 01:03:01 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-14#1030227 << How would postings be edited after they are published?
d75afa280c04faf2…9e59a121…2023-08-08 17:57:46 <signpost> somebody mentioned it a few days back in the logs. original koreans.
9f7f7b54e6ffa21b…d78d7cfc…2023-08-12 23:18:08 <asciilifeform> from the prospectus, loox precisely like tor (just the 'onion' part) with buncha extra lolcomplexity added
9cb4fad56d374d14…6d374d14…2023-08-15 03:11:21 <awt_akris> Got in the habit of using md since it was required for documentation on various consulting projects shared on shithub.
96693db7828d79b7…828d79b7…2023-08-16 01:03:45 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: I have a friend in China who has read some of your articles.
5d7ca794828d79b7…e01c4493…2023-08-16 01:04:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-14 21:43:09 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Came up with a notion for blogging via pest (possibly already discussed) in which we have a separate pestnet for articles and a bridge bot between the two for announcements, as well as a reader that can render markdown.
6f12e942d75afa28…d75afa28…2023-08-08 17:58:18 <signpost> idea being the third guy was tired of hearing "any day now" and published their paper for them.
7bd0e03a9cb4fad5…9cb4fad5…2023-08-15 03:40:55 <awt_akris> Not a fan of the default fonts used by latex.
f4a3d7265d7ca794…96693db7…2023-08-16 01:04:26 <gregorynyssa> He also read two of Mr Yarvin's articles: "My Navrozov Moments" and "What Is Wrong with CS Research."
67a5c242f4a3d726…62c7acea…2023-08-16 01:04:58 <awt_akris> gregorynyssa: reader could be version aware
cf8497ff86f4a2e9…6f12e942…2023-08-08 17:58:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-04#1029516
76670efc342b011e…822f8ac5…2023-08-13 15:25:21 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Discord bridge bot back online now and hosted in the "cloud" so should be up permanantly.
86dc9871cf8497ff…d9cbe888…2023-08-08 18:00:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-04 19:39:42 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: who published everything. accordingly the observation is made that the first article that was published had 3 names on it (likely due to nobel prize laurelate limit of 3 people?). It seems plausible to me that Kwon called bullshit after nearly a decade of thes
9466c3f676670efc…20089da2…2023-08-13 15:27:58 <awt_akris> billymg: this discord invite link is set not to expire, so should be suitable for pestnet.io: https://discord.gg/AhyJY8MK
d5d2720c52b82acf…95e42f35…2023-08-15 15:49:40 <awt_akris> Got stable diffusion up and running on my laptop. pretty incredible.
20ca9601261aeb98…261aeb98…2023-08-16 01:05:37 <gregorynyssa> He wanted to ask for clarification regarding your view of ML and type-theory.
5903593b9466c3f6…a5930b27…2023-08-13 18:45:44 <billymg> awt: cool, updated the homepage and whitepaper page with links to join
dbb448a620ca9601…20ca9601…2023-08-16 01:07:48 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-15#1030246 << I imagine that it would operate in a manner similar to Wikipedia, showing multiple revisions of each article, is that right?
cc000cff33dec77f…cf8497ff…2023-08-08 18:00:01 <signpost> in either case, the moment anything real does happen, there will inevitably be thousands of troons posting faked videos of same.
37f58af362c7acea…ba76fbc5…2023-08-16 00:56:45 <lobbes> I find it amusing how both human and artificial neural networks tend to have trouble when learning to draw hands
096b29bddbb448a6…67a5c242…2023-08-16 01:09:06 <awt_akris> gregorynyssa: I'm not sure how much vram it has, it's an AMD Radeon 680M in a System76 Pangolin.
9cb513a0dbb448a6…5d7ca794…2023-08-16 01:09:10 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-15 21:05:27 awt_akris[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: reader could be version aware
77f9d434d0cc29f9…76670efc…2023-08-13 18:59:11 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Gotta fix url parsing in discord. Their shitty matcher catches the bracket.
2f5ac0899cb513a0…096b29bd…2023-08-16 01:10:51 <awt_akris> gregorynyssa It could work that way but I doubt I'd put that much work into the first version.
25e9c8542f5ac089…2f5ac089…2023-08-16 01:22:25 <awt_akris> damn you're right lobbes, can't generate a non-birtdefect hand
522778bc6915afc0…822101de…2023-08-08 18:07:08 <asciilifeform> ancient tradition ( see e.g. + over9000 similar )
5684e40a522778bc…522778bc…2023-08-08 18:25:01 <asciilifeform> incidentally, recall anuther interesting blaster 'unlockable' if had roomtemp supercon.
aa0d2a90d453bd6c…d453bd6c…2023-08-14 02:16:03 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) I'm sitting in the woods eating smores. Having this as an option to connect is pretty cool.
fca88b055684e40a…6558c72b…2023-08-08 18:25:01 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-04-14 asciilifeform: btw the 'beta decay can be arbitrarily sped up in magnetic field' throws a bit of new light on just how 'strange, new' a world with roomtemp supercon would be.
9a1a3e6faa0d2a90…aa0d2a90…2023-08-14 02:36:46 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Hmm, interesting, the name bridge-bot shows is the username, not the handle shown in discord?
b0e42f61fca88b05…a74a7474…2023-08-08 22:37:59 <shinohai> In heathen wallet news: https://milksad.info/disclosure.html
fc5b18549a1a3e6f…aff66aef…2023-08-14 02:45:59 <awt_akris> PeterL: oh yes. It appears so. I'll have to look into what the difference is there.
35183506b0e42f61…d9b592d4…2023-08-08 23:40:42 <billymg> "The victims ensured that their /dev/random Random Number Generator (RNG) subsystem of the Linux laptops had sufficient entropy, but perhaps that wasn’t sufficient after all ..?"
6b606c8835183506…35183506…2023-08-08 23:41:02 <billymg> all that trouble and they don't even bother to roll dice
732487cf6b606c88…5684e40a…2023-08-08 23:41:13 <asciilifeform> std::mt19937& pseudo_random::get_twister() lol
71af8c0f732487cf…732487cf…2023-08-08 23:41:57 asciilifeform also lols, just like last coupla of these, <30 coinz pinched total
5687471e41789ca8…9f7f7b54…2023-08-14 17:53:22 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: already linked last month iirc
077cde5471af8c0f…71af8c0f…2023-08-08 23:43:06 <asciilifeform> that, over '... we discovered over 2600 distinct and actively used Bitcoin cryptocurrency wallets...'
d62a1369077cde54…077cde54…2023-08-08 23:43:20 <asciilifeform> redditus & their 'life savings'(tm) eh
d12110a8dbdf440d…4e14721c…2023-08-15 00:36:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-21 14:07:29 asciilifeform[6]: meanwhile, in recent boobytrap lulz.
37f8469abd3a9965…9a1a3e6f…2023-08-15 01:05:11 <discord_bridge> (awtho) signpost: search command in the console
0250a145d12110a8…dbdf440d…2023-08-15 00:34:35 <asciilifeform> the search on billymg's logger evidently not worx 100%
38b81437e9ba4ca7…e9ba4ca7…2023-08-08 23:53:31 <asciilifeform> sane 'wallet' would be nice, but aint happening befoar hell freezes over. ( see also )
0117947b0250a145…0250a145…2023-08-15 00:35:15 <asciilifeform> or on asciilifeform's for that matter, lol
c53b8f4038b81437…fca88b05…2023-08-08 23:53:31 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-05-19 asciilifeform: upstack, re: 'iron wallets' -- see also e.[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciili
45b0092f14607e05…14607e05…2023-08-15 01:11:48 <s1gnp0st> I am disappointed by the number of instances of "butts" in the pest logs. let there be a third.
ee4c23ecc53b8f40…c53b8f40…2023-08-08 23:53:31 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-05-24 20:59:04 asciilifeform: not expects anyone to bake sane 'iron wallet' -- the 'how' was imho obv. for 10+yrs nao, but who would pay
b9918e4271767224…71767224…2023-08-15 00:35:58 <asciilifeform> or lol, nm, eprint.iacr.org/2023/841 gets found.
4e14721cee4c23ec…86dc9871…2023-08-08 23:55:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-24 14:39:28 asciilifeform[6]: on this hypothetical iron, the 'knobs' oughta include a means of entering a decryption pw. the keys per se, to live on removable flashes, 'unclassified when unkeyed'(tm)(r) ergo as many backups as one feels like
4911c385d8d8adc2…45b0092f…2023-08-15 01:17:52 <s1gnp0st> seems like y'all are using the discord app as a way to use iOS/Android?
c13ec0cf4e14721c…38b81437…2023-08-08 23:58:25 <asciilifeform> redditus collectively has barely enuff coin to buy a coupla bulldozers to dig their graves with, much less pay for sane walletron to appear
32a0bc2bc13ec0cf…c13ec0cf…2023-08-09 00:00:40 asciilifeform suspects that e.g. llm-powered shitcoad audits will yield at least coupla moar 'aaand they stole almost 30 btc!11' noose items
1735c57032a0bc2b…32a0bc2b…2023-08-09 00:04:29 <asciilifeform> ... the only 'btc business model' they can support is the 1 illustrated above, where you give'em a 'wallet' with mersenne twister rng and harvest.
1ccf4feb1735c570…1735c570…2023-08-09 00:06:26 <asciilifeform> even this is likely -ev most of the time. we simply dun hear about the ones where 'lolfuck i got over9000 redditards to use boobytrapped wallet and got 0.1btc summed'
ea9b039c96a9c781…96a9c781…2023-08-09 00:08:10 <billymg> strangely, in an article entirely about the dangers of insufficient entropy, no mention of how to get sufficient amounts of said entropy
87bb0a54ea9b039c…ea9b039c…2023-08-09 00:08:49 <billymg> only offered "solution" is, "be sure to update your software to the latest version next time"
49466c8e87bb0a54…1ccf4feb…2023-08-09 00:08:44 <asciilifeform> what'd 'sufficient entropy' do for these tards ?
0c25689749466c8e…ee4c23ec…2023-08-09 00:08:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-20 asciilifeform: it is also the case that rng as commercial product is a very questionable biz proposition. it takes quite a bit of 'adulthood' to even get to a place where you actually benefit from a 1000 $ rng. for instance, microshit victims dun really win anyffin from using whatever external rn
a5930b270c256897…87bb0a54…2023-08-09 00:09:37 billymg only skimmed, but 0 results for ctrl-f 'trng', 'true', 'dice'
4a353fd4a5930b27…49466c8e…2023-08-09 00:12:57 <asciilifeform> it's a stereotypical lemon market and will continue to produce the very familiar lemons, ad nauseum
5d17823c4a353fd4…0c256897…2023-08-09 00:12:57 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-20 asciilifeform: Aerthean: related reading. it is ~very~ difficult to profit by 'actually Do Right Thing' in engineering, vs. [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-99.0-105.1183]['convincingly pretend to Do Right Thing' , 'i
4192fb0e0000000000000000…2023-08-16 02:45:41 <simonstylites> Supposely, Dijkstra once said that computer programmers need to be trained in the Latin language.
2de3ddbddf6c85ce…df6c85ce…2023-08-16 02:47:40 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Wish I had been trained in Latin. Learned Greek much later.
2a284a03737e935b…0b0e61e7…2023-08-16 03:03:18 <discord_bridge> (awtho) asciilifeform will have to answer that
047817121d34f25a…37f58af3…2023-08-16 17:53:57 <lobbes> awt_akris fwiw apparently the latest version of Midjourney is better at shannonizing hands
d8c193c504781712…51770546…2023-08-16 18:36:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-15#1029760 << fella claims to be a reader iirc, but not knows that asciilifeform in recent yrs hasn't even always time to answer mail, much less bake machine arch ? trololol
68c95444d8c193c5…d12110a8…2023-08-16 18:37:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-15 23:01:02 simonstylites[signpost|deedbot]: I can't wait to use Loper OS.
e7900b3905001ff4…9cb513a0…2023-08-16 18:46:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-10-31 asciilifeform: working ~7d/wk naodays
75d17f4ce7900b39…e7900b39…2023-08-16 18:46:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-10 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-10#1083710 << to whom is this q addressed ? (e.g. asciilifeform hasn't particularly much time, or, after expenses, dough, for that matter; on most wks worx commercially 7d/wk... )
05c225a675d17f4c…75d17f4c…2023-08-16 18:46:33 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-31 asciilifeform: anyways by popular demand, the ballpark magic# is ~100.
abac780efb6f4590…05c225a6…2023-08-16 18:55:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-09-01 asciilifeform: may have catastrophically failed to explain himself, so will elaborate (tho a little surprised at the interest in subj! again must take off hat to the folx proposing such)
7fbe634dabac780e…fb6f4590…2023-08-16 18:56:00 <asciilifeform> sorta lulzy that a supposed regular reader wouldn't know this.
104b2ef47fbe634d…e392e698…2023-08-16 20:45:40 <signpost> no, see, now you're supposed to thank him for the ego rub on the cock and blither word salad back.
de82c935104b2ef4…104b2ef4…2023-08-16 20:46:16 signpost recalls a good mp rant on the subj of folks popping in as though flipping through tv channels.
d071db38de82c935…7fbe634d…2023-08-16 21:36:12 asciilifeform tried to locate subj, found only phf's recent ref to it
544f4aebd071db38…abac780e…2023-08-16 21:36:13 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 20:30:03 phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-09-16#1012974 << you're dellusional, that never happens, and all people like that do is bring down the s/n. this whole online yeshiva thing is bogus, because, and i appologize for a taleb-ism, there's no skin in the game. it's exactly "what'
d0112e98544f4aeb…68c95444…2023-08-16 21:38:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 16:54:38 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: signpost: it does happen that bored kid tunes in and 'infected' w/ desire to actually ~do~ sumthing, tho admittedly not often
1955aec9d3057452…544f4aeb…2023-08-16 21:36:58 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 20:32:10 phf[asciilifeform]: of course after the guy opens up with a bunch of ironic and idgy insults jonsykkel gives him peering info and asciilifeform helpfully explains how to setup the client
bfe77acf1955aec9…1955aec9…2023-08-16 21:36:59 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-09-16 20:33:45 phf[asciilifeform]: so looking forward to pestnet being swamped with more of same. it's like you guys *enjoy* being insulted?
e19f979fbfe77acf…de82c935…2023-08-16 21:39:39 <signpost> both letting in n00bs and giving them shit for acting weird are compatible with my culture, haha
23c7e5e6e19f979f…d3057452…2023-08-16 21:40:21 asciilifeform has noprob with n00bs and even occasional halfwit, but atm they're rare enuff that asciilifeform feels at least vaguely obligated to answer'em
063dd1e42450fa63…2450fa63…2023-08-16 21:50:05 awt_akris reflects on asciilifeform actually mass producing a hardware item
31733283063dd1e4…e3e4d494…2023-08-16 22:05:48 <shinohai> In Windblowze lol: https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/08/windows-feature-that-resets-system-clocks-based-on-random-data-is-wreaking-havoc/
f011a2ed0000000000000000…2023-08-17 05:54:58 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-16#1030300 << I suffered from this before.
69eb7d13f011a2ed…bfe77acf…2023-08-17 05:55:16 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-16 18:05:54 shinohai[asciilifeform]: In Windblowze lol: https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/08/windows-feature-that-resets-system-clocks-based-on-random-data-is-wreaking-havoc/
fdeb7defbb2b2528…23c7e5e6…2023-08-17 13:43:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-16#1029795 << if yer thinking of fg, wasn't exactly 'mass', each of the print runs at one pt fit on a tabletop (had to solder the pin headers manually, lol, factory hadn't done it as part was outta stock)
439cc40ffdeb7def…d0112e98…2023-08-17 13:45:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-16 17:51:53 awt_akris[signpost]: reflects on asciilifeform actually mass producing a hardware item
9bb1d1b0439cc40f…fe213d49…2023-08-17 14:29:31 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-16#1029782 << this one?
412a5d2f9bb1d1b0…439cc40f…2023-08-17 14:30:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-16 16:48:03 signpost: recalls a good mp rant on the subj of folks popping in as though flipping through tv channels.
69f963fd412a5d2f…412a5d2f…2023-08-17 14:30:31 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-02-20 mircea_popescu: no but i mean the fucking lameness of it. dood's got a "well rounded internet experience", he's got a mortgage and a boring wife and a boring job and a hp he bought at the store, and he "logs in" for a coupla hours four times a week or w/e. every nine weeks and a half we pop up again in
c44d76dbf977f703…f977f703…2023-08-17 19:21:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-17#1029799 << what keeps you on winblows?
5984591bc44d76db…69f963fd…2023-08-17 19:23:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-17 01:57:16 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: However, I still use Windows on a daily basis.
5423db0d62dee9e6…62dee9e6…2023-08-17 21:57:23 <signpost> it'd be mighty entertaining if the hybrid world war results in all three megastates getting dead.
8805bc4b5423db0d…b35ad18b…2023-08-17 21:59:00 <billymg> if you look at the meme lines, you can see that the daily yesterday closed below support
1e96a53c1a92e125…1a92e125…2023-08-17 22:00:55 <billymg> signpost: yeah, isn't china now having trouble with their currency, prompting a fresh round of brrr over there?
d866f7df19483184…19483184…2023-08-17 22:31:21 <signpost> btc's price action's still moving right along with difficulty fwiw
005e29b1d866f7df…d866f7df…2023-08-17 22:32:04 <signpost> would be nice to figure out a way to include energy prices in this somehow.
64633c64bfbb51fd…d74e8602…2023-08-17 23:44:41 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-03-17#1025202 <<< What makes me sad is that some people are looking...
e44724ff64633c64…69eb7d13…2023-08-17 23:44:43 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-03-17 14:53:19 signpost[asciilifeform]: ripple's an overcomplicated proposed replacement for swift, not bitcoin.
a403dc4b34452185…34452185…2023-08-17 23:50:17 <unpx> ...and the most reasonable way there is piggybacking new, malleable standards
25940821a403dc4b…a403dc4b…2023-08-17 23:51:32 <unpx> ... ( vid of the slides Crypto&Privacy Village DEFCON31 Day 1 "Attacking Decentralized Identity" )
3fc63d31d1dd750c…d1dd750c…2023-08-17 23:54:48 <asciilifeform> ( wat the hell is 'decentralized' about 'decentralized identity'(tm)(r) ? )
ca7833913fc63d31…25940821…2023-08-17 23:55:56 <unpx> Instead of the centralized user-password pair, you have your agent with some pub-priv key pair and use t
e9295515ca783391…3fc63d31…2023-08-17 23:56:08 <asciilifeform> actual decentralized identity == rsa pubkey, manually operated.
ef8356d2e9295515…ca783391…2023-08-17 23:56:37 <unpx> ...and use _the agent_ (not the key directly) to authenticate on "Web5" (which is built on top of "Web3")
7337812def8356d2…e9295515…2023-08-17 23:56:39 <asciilifeform> (well, private operations, manually operated.)
076a27f9c7bbd4da…ef8356d2…2023-08-17 23:58:18 <unpx> Cuz doesn't have to be a blockchain wallet, and it is not just a "here are the pub keys", it should be more like ssh-agent which choose which key to use with who and so on
f9826cf7076a27f9…076a27f9…2023-08-17 23:59:03 <unpx> But this is just what I could picture, in the best scenario
11021d7df9826cf7…c7bbd4da…2023-08-17 23:59:04 <asciilifeform> endless variations on the theme of 'pubkey signatures without actual control', snore
0c1c64c6e6a3f587…e6a3f587…2023-08-18 00:00:21 <asciilifeform> manually-triggered rsa ops or fulla shit.
3bcc4f270c1c64c6…f9826cf7…2023-08-18 00:01:45 <unpx> 'gov/corp signed pubkey' could summarize what they are trying to achieve, since it all goes back to certs sinkhole at some point, which is amusing
76a769f55537fab4…3bcc4f27…2023-08-18 00:02:19 <unpx> Except with extra layers of confusion cuz 'semantic web'
443e83cdb9039cbd…b9039cbd…2023-08-18 00:02:31 <asciilifeform> the confusion 'is feature, not bug'(tm)
661738d5443e83cd…76a769f5…2023-08-18 00:02:59 <unpx> In the video they mention China already registered a DID method (if you know JWT, run away) that is pretty harmful
d09ccab0661738d5…443e83cd…2023-08-18 00:03:33 <asciilifeform> what diff does it make if the masterkeys are china's or usg's
ae018265d09ccab0…d09ccab0…2023-08-18 00:03:47 <asciilifeform> a masterkeyed crock o'shit is a masterkeyed crock o'shit.
bc89372eae018265…661738d5…2023-08-18 00:04:13 <unpx> https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/#dfn-did-methods
4f23f96fbc89372e…bc89372e…2023-08-18 00:04:34 <unpx> ``A DID method is defined by a DID method specification, which specifies the precise operations by which DIDs and DID documents are created, resolved, updated, and deactivated.''
814860ed5cfaf3e3…e44724ff…2023-08-18 00:07:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-02-13 asciilifeform: the purpose of e.g. ssl is to drive n00bz away from actual crypto.
b54c550b814860ed…814860ed…2023-08-18 00:07:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-06-24 asciilifeform: anyffin, anyffin to keep folx from even thinking about actual (i.e. where the keyz live on yer hdd and nowhere else) crypto..
b3b415edb54c550b…b54c550b…2023-08-18 00:07:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-31 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: imho it is a not unimportant detail, that the agitprop comes from folx whose actual aim is to drive functional, publicly-available crypto into extinction (and in fact largely achieved this)
1496add1b3b415ed…b3b415ed…2023-08-18 00:07:32 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-01-21 asciilifeform: as for encryption -- 99+% of what's 'out there' in the sense of 'readable by plebe armed w/ google' was written specifically to ensure that actual crypto aint there when you in fact do need it.
1fb59c0a1496add1…5cfaf3e3…2023-08-18 00:09:35 <asciilifeform> whythefuck even pay any attention to liquishit where 'your' pubkey 'not counts' unless some third party signed it? or 'stops counting' when again some third party 'revokes' ? or where some piece of shit can sign 'on your behalf' because 'court order' or whatever.
4c2d8ac6ec20a2f2…ec20a2f2…2023-08-18 00:10:55 <asciilifeform> ( not even speaking of the idiocy where 'your' key actually lives on some remote machine in its entirety )
f4d31a414c2d8ac6…4c2d8ac6…2023-08-18 00:11:59 <asciilifeform> none of it has anyffing to do with actual cryptography. y'know, the kind where you're in full control of your, actually private, privkey, and manually approve all computations involving it, erry single time.
18300ed8f4d31a41…f4d31a41…2023-08-18 00:12:31 <asciilifeform> and where pubkey is what you actually chose, consciously, to give yer counterparty.
583e5aab18300ed8…18300ed8…2023-08-18 00:17:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-17#1029827 << will say for nth time, it's approx as interesting as 'attacks on ssl! newz at 11!'. the implication 100% of the time is that the fact that reich can do whatever it wants with the pki and effectively 'act on your behalf'(tm) whenever it wants, 'isn't an attack'
af939249583e5aab…5984591b…2023-08-18 00:19:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-17 19:53:25 unpx[jonsykkel|signpost|deedbot]: ... ( vid of the slides Crypto&Privacy Village DEFCON31 Day 1 "Attacking Decentralized Identity" )
14ebb30a475f5aee…583e5aab…2023-08-18 00:18:37 <asciilifeform> actual crypto is when you can take cyanide and then 'all the king's horses and all the king's men' can go suck their thumbs.
0b7594da14ebb30a…475f5aee…2023-08-18 00:18:56 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-17#1030361 <<< Heh, is this what to do when ppl are shooting at their feet?
a7fed1630b7594da…1496add1…2023-08-18 00:22:33 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-17 20:09:38 asciilifeform: just piss on it.
c27fdeaa007e6c0c…a7fed163…2023-08-18 00:30:55 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-04 asciilifeform: what ilkka kokkarinen called 'martian problem'. (iirc from pokerism, term of art.)
ef0c6be0db4aa08a…c27fdeaa…2023-08-18 00:32:14 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-11-25 asciilifeform: 'Id like to see one expression coined by the poker writer Matt Matros become common parlance, since it applies far more widely than only to poker. An alien problem means some problem that might be fun, interesting and educational to analyze, and it would be really important to know
07f13f72ef0c6be0…ef0c6be0…2023-08-18 00:32:14 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-11-25 asciilifeform: ace, because it can only have resulted from you having made choices that are obviously wrong and easily avoidable. At the poker table, the description of an alien problem might begin So I called a raise and re-raise preflop from the small blind with my jack-three offsuit... Say no mo
49350ec707f13f72…07f13f72…2023-08-18 00:32:14 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2014-11-25 asciilifeform: ink about how to get out of problems like that. Outside the poker table, consider any problem that starts with the words So, I have been having a steamy secret affair with the wife of this violent mob boss, and now she...'
71169e7f49350ec7…db4aa08a…2023-08-18 00:32:47 <asciilifeform> ugh, that ended up mangled. but can read in orig log.
c054418274cbbfc3…74cbbfc3…2023-08-18 00:36:49 <asciilifeform> i.e. asciilifeform never heard of 'hashicorp'. had to look it up. and unsurprisingly found that the folx who care what it is and what it does, have certainly made 'wrong choices in life' that were imho avoidable, and for many not even too late to fix
932ae8e30000000000000000…2023-08-18 04:40:52 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-16#1030270 << `simonstylites` is not the Chinese ML programmer whom I mentioned.
568d7629932ae8e3…49350ec7…2023-08-18 04:41:09 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-16 14:36:08 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-15#1029760 << fella claims to be a reader iirc, but not knows that asciilifeform in recent yrs hasn't even always time to answer mail, much less bake machine arch ? trololol
e1a9f786568d7629…932ae8e3…2023-08-18 04:41:44 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-17#1030313 << It has some advantages over Linux.
974badd9568d7629…af939249…2023-08-18 04:42:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-15 23:01:02 simonstylites[signpost|deedbot]: I can't wait to use Loper OS.
4a824c5ae1a9f786…568d7629…2023-08-18 04:42:01 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-17 15:21:23 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-17#1029799 << what keeps you on winblows?
5face23e4a824c5a…974badd9…2023-08-18 04:43:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-17 01:57:16 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost]: However, I still use Windows on a daily basis.
48df10445face23e…e1a9f786…2023-08-18 04:44:42 <gregorynyssa> Aside from my own Linux distribution, Slackware is the best.
29dda17548df1044…48df1044…2023-08-18 04:45:15 <gregorynyssa> I mean, best according to my own needs.
7ffb19d329dda175…29dda175…2023-08-18 04:46:13 <gregorynyssa> signpost: I would be glad to speak further about Pentacle since it has some commonality with my own work.
fe0544dd7ffb19d3…7ffb19d3…2023-08-18 04:49:03 <gregorynyssa> I like how GoboLinux places every program in its own folder, in the manner of Windows.
db18a50bfe0544dd…c0544182…2023-08-18 15:30:37 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: signpost's pentacle links statically, you can do precisely same thing there
eab49f42db18a50b…db18a50b…2023-08-18 15:31:06 <asciilifeform> ( for that matter, even heathen crapple's os, where nuffin links statically, has 'erry proggy in own dir', this aint exclusive to microshit )
1572a91eeab49f42…eab49f42…2023-08-18 15:36:05 <asciilifeform> ... meanwhile, in 'internet of the future' lulz.
a19e2f791572a91e…4a824c5a…2023-08-18 15:36:06 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-04 asciilifeform: (4) internet of the future(tm)(r)(c), i.e. whitelist and 'license to www' a la aol
c106add6a19e2f79…1572a91e…2023-08-18 15:37:35 <asciilifeform> ^ 1 in endless series of tards like weev, who, instead of 'let's p2p hosting', insist on sitting on reichnet and whining about censors...
8cc4f6a3c106add6…a19e2f79…2023-08-18 15:37:36 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-12-22 deedbot: weevlos voiced for 30 minutes.
feb5a39c8cc4f6a3…ade61d5a…2023-08-18 19:55:38 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-18#1029887 << is there something stopping you from having separate folders for each program on other distros?
5d9b8b7bfeb5a39c…5face23e…2023-08-18 19:57:25 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 00:51:07 gregorynyssa[signpost|deedbot]: I like how GoboLinux places every program in its own folder, in the manner of Windows.
aa6d12085d9b8b7b…c106add6…2023-08-18 20:11:25 <asciilifeform> PeterL: on a heathen linux, dynamics libs thrown about in n diff /usr dirs, typically
264bbfbb5dfd380c…b02808b2…2023-08-18 20:15:40 <asciilifeform> PeterL: PeterL: e.g. 'libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found' and similar idiocy
5c348769264bbfbb…264bbfbb…2023-08-18 20:16:20 <asciilifeform> and the dependency hell it creates, often enuff not curable without demolishing ~errything on the box
3d1e9e735c348769…5dfd380c…2023-08-18 20:16:24 <PeterL> ah, so the program assumes you have the lib it needs instead of bringing it with?
39c709d17eb24680…b32604ba…2023-08-18 20:16:46 <asciilifeform> and absolutely universal on 'modern' distros
76747f5c84d0222b…39c709d1…2023-08-18 20:18:04 <asciilifeform> PeterL: see logs. nominally 'for seekoority' but factually forced by drepper & his fellow nsa assets to help maintain vuln footprint
eb58c41076747f5c…76747f5c…2023-08-18 20:18:50 <asciilifeform> good % of asciilifeform's early trb work was specifically to build statically-linked binary of same
1ba14517eb58c410…eb58c410…2023-08-18 20:19:19 <asciilifeform> later on , signpost baked a (initially gentooesque) linux where only musltronic gcc is present
4cb04cef7a1e4ecc…7a1e4ecc…2023-08-18 20:20:01 <asciilifeform> ( musl being a sane replacement for glibc where drepper's vandlism isn't present and static linking worx 100% )
6ff95153e61b9b12…84d0222b…2023-08-18 20:21:29 <PeterL> I suppose I see the benefit of having to only patch a hole found in one place instead of rebuilding every program, is that the correct way this is reasoned?
6d131dfb9813f02d…9813f02d…2023-08-18 20:22:19 <asciilifeform> (drepper et al of course not bothered to mention that 'upgrade' can ~introduce~ as well as patch hole..)
1ae3c6f26d131dfb…6ff95153…2023-08-18 20:22:39 <PeterL> but then you have to worry about a "fix" breaking things that use it?
35aa42c8027e5435…8cc4f6a3…2023-08-18 20:25:52 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-04-03 shinohai: Latest glibc "update" broke ~75% of coins.
fc90d631027e5435…027e5435…2023-08-18 20:25:52 <asciilifeform> think of 'dynamic linking' this way -- you had a proggy and thought you knew its behaviour space, and nao a total stranger changed arbitrary aspects of how it worx.
514b5bd535aa42c8…35aa42c8…2023-08-18 20:25:52 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-07-26 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-07-26#1017239 << there's ~6 years of history here ( and that's simply from asciilifeform's pov, other folx struggled longer. ) in '15, found that glibc project has been operated by wreckers, for years. and deliberately sneaks dyn. l
adc3d371514b5bd5…fc90d631…2023-08-18 20:26:16 <asciilifeform> ~best~ case scenario is that it simply bombs on start
0f455b7cadc3d371…adc3d371…2023-08-18 20:27:40 <asciilifeform> for erry vuln the dreppers claim to fix, they introduce N new ones. once you know this, seeing dynamic linking anywhere near safety-critical proggy (or pretty much anywhere else) oughta induce gag reflex.
61d4fdb00f455b7c…0f455b7c…2023-08-18 20:29:10 <asciilifeform> the only place it is ever of practical use is occasions when you wanna run e.g. 'valgrind', where you gotta hijack malloc and free
25604ff961d4fdb0…61d4fdb0…2023-08-18 20:30:53 <asciilifeform> ( arguably best proggy from a determinism pov is one ~without any linking whatsoever~, dynamic or static. but there aint many of these, 'm' is the only example asciilifeform can personally give )
6f37250825604ff9…1ae3c6f2…2023-08-18 20:33:02 <PeterL> dynamiscism seems to be inviting murphey's law
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 77aa8287298b7bab12bde7a5e9a523c68d1604dae9b0d0f63d9982f612d5e31d) prior to <gregorynyssa> ---
d8428d2577aa8287…77aa8287…2023-08-19 02:11:56 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-18#1030405 << Under static linking, all of the functions which a program needs are included within the executable.
f7837d05d8428d25…d8428d25…2023-08-19 02:14:27 <gregorynyssa> Under dynamic linking, the executable needs other files (dynamic libraries) in order to be executed.
0cb013cdf7837d05…f7837d05…2023-08-19 02:15:24 <gregorynyssa> Within the community of Windows, the inconvenience of dynamic linking is reduced by distributing .exe and .dll files within the same .zip file.
f3d3e467f7837d05…514b5bd5…2023-08-19 02:17:40 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 16:16:35 PeterL[asciilifeform]: ah, so the program assumes you have the lib it needs instead of bringing it with?
635669a4f3d3e467…0cb013cd…2023-08-19 02:19:36 <gregorynyssa> By always keeping the .exe and .dll files in the same folder, there are no path-related errors.
0eb0f40b635669a4…635669a4…2023-08-19 02:20:01 <gregorynyssa> The community of Linux rejects this practice, and insists that the dynamic-library files must be scattered across the filesystem.
39e9213f0eb0f40b…0eb0f40b…2023-08-19 02:20:40 <gregorynyssa> Thus, when using Linux, you must constantly tinker with filepaths to get executables working.
043fa5a339e9213f…39e9213f…2023-08-19 02:23:34 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-18#1029896 << In my opinion, paths should not be hardcoded into executables at all.
e6e3954b043fa5a3…043fa5a3…2023-08-19 02:23:53 <gregorynyssa> It is nearly possible to create a distribution of Linux with zero hardcoded paths within executables.
1f2ecff3043fa5a3…5d9b8b7b…2023-08-19 02:25:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 16:13:12 asciilifeform[4]: PeterL: on a heathen linux, dynamics libs thrown about in n diff /usr dirs, typically
3b443b23e6e3954b…e6e3954b…2023-08-19 02:24:07 <gregorynyssa> Some traditionally hardcoded paths such as /bin/sh and /etc/fstab are hard to remove, though.
7ac30cc13b443b23…3b443b23…2023-08-19 02:27:14 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-18#1029923 << From a Determinist perspective, even malloc(3) should not be used.
75e651167ac30cc1…1f2ecff3…2023-08-19 02:29:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 16:32:41 asciilifeform[4]: ( arguably best proggy from a determinism pov is one ~without any linking whatsoever~, dynamic or static. but there aint many of these, 'm' is the only example asciilifeform can personally give )
b4f0f7c975e65116…7ac30cc1…2023-08-19 02:27:42 <gregorynyssa> Every program should allocate all of its memory in a single block upon starting up.
2f0684b9b4f0f7c9…b4f0f7c9…2023-08-19 02:28:51 <gregorynyssa> (This being achieved through ELF segments, not through brk(2).)
c3a3bb902f0684b9…25604ff9…2023-08-19 03:02:08 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: read the linked proggy, that's precisely what takes place there, lol
f4acbe252f0684b9…2f0684b9…2023-08-19 03:55:31 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-18#1030444 << Nicely done.
8f106407c3a3bb90…c3a3bb90…2023-08-19 03:02:32 <asciilifeform> (and not limited to elf segment either)
9243efedf4acbe25…f3d3e467…2023-08-19 03:55:50 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 23:02:08 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: read the linked proggy, that's precisely what takes place there, lol
8fb3a5079243efed…f4acbe25…2023-08-19 03:56:13 <gregorynyssa> I have not used your M program because I have no MIPS III programs which I need to run.
af997c0812c285fe…12c285fe…2023-08-19 03:04:49 <asciilifeform> (builds w/out linking, there's nuffin to link)
6a19b14b8fb3a507…8fb3a507…2023-08-19 03:56:37 <gregorynyssa> I seem to remember that you wrote M in one or two days, is that right?
04d00aeaaf997c08…af997c08…2023-08-19 03:06:39 <asciilifeform> technically invoked ld, but simply to get the elf header in
0159a8df6a19b14b…6a19b14b…2023-08-19 03:56:55 <gregorynyssa> Was there any particular MIPS III program which you needed to execute?
0543090b0159a8df…0159a8df…2023-08-19 04:02:59 <gregorynyssa> Where distributions of Linux are concerned, last year I used antiX and it was not bad.
35e55c650543090b…0543090b…2023-08-20 11:13:55 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: signpost: This is a good article if you have not already seen it: https://web.archive.org/web/20160605184045/http://aiju.de/rant/dynamic-linking
40ae002335e55c65…35e55c65…2023-08-20 11:14:32 <gregorynyssa> Here is an article by this `aiju` person which reflects many of my dissatisfactions toward Linux: https://web.archive.org/web/20160605180257/http://aiju.de/rant/os/linux
7f74f31b40ae0023…40ae0023…2023-08-20 11:14:40 <gregorynyssa> This article is also good: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
7b8cb2007f74f31b…7f74f31b…2023-08-20 11:15:32 <gregorynyssa> "Clipboard handling totally sucks so incredibly much. Not even lobotomized monkeys on crack could [mess] up this badly."
c8c3ed547b8cb200…7b8cb200…2023-08-20 11:17:04 <gregorynyssa> I look forward to the advent of a better distribution of Linux. For now, I am a Slackware user.
b2a4e7d9c8c3ed54…c8c3ed54…2023-08-20 11:19:01 <gregorynyssa> This is for fans of Gentoo: https://web.archive.org/web/20130801024345/http://funroll-loops.info/
678c7419b2a4e7d9…b2a4e7d9…2023-08-22 08:14:59 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-21#1030469 << That is a great idea.
e88e6c94678c7419…9243efed…2023-08-22 08:15:19 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-21 14:01:11 asciilifeform: notion was, you run the thing with memory image, the linux 'boots' in <0.1sec, runs whatever (e.g. pdf to jpeg tool), shits out output on tcp
b6508728e88e6c94…678c7419…2023-08-22 08:16:36 <gregorynyssa> It is similar to having a verified kernel such as L4 or a rump-kernel.
da1e59545514ac84…ea5303ed…2023-08-21 17:57:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-18#1029950 << it was baked strictly to run the linux which asciilifeform ported to it. to get airtight process isolation on a shared machine.
a7fdb12bb6508728…b6508728…2023-08-22 08:20:19 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-21#1030465 << Did you use one of the 2.x kernels or a modern kernel?
7bc97a8dda1e5954…75e65116…2023-08-21 17:59:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 23:59:00 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: Was there any particular MIPS III program which you needed to execute?
b7fdfbc3a7fdb12b…e88e6c94…2023-08-22 08:20:40 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-21 13:57:20 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-18#1029950 << it was baked strictly to run the linux which asciilifeform ported to it. to get airtight process isolation on a shared machine.
4935af7d7bc97a8d…da1e5954…2023-08-21 17:59:28 <asciilifeform> i.e. 'qemu' without the 9000 kilometres of mystery src and the exploitable bugs.
81cf2275b7fdfbc3…7bc97a8d…2023-08-22 08:22:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-18 23:59:00 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: Was there any particular MIPS III program which you needed to execute?
33bdf81a4935af7d…4935af7d…2023-08-21 17:59:45 <asciilifeform> whole emulator fit in l0 cache (<13kB exe)
d54a5a2081cf2275…a7fdb12b…2023-08-22 08:23:44 <gregorynyssa> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3420#selection-307.1-311.42 << Nevermind, I see it. You used the 3.16 version of Linux.
b967feca33bdf81a…33bdf81a…2023-08-21 18:01:11 <asciilifeform> notion was, you run the thing with memory image, the linux 'boots' in <0.1sec, runs whatever (e.g. pdf to jpeg tool), shits out output on tcp
f7155c66d54a5a20…d54a5a20…2023-08-24 03:50:56 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-23#1030522 << I find that to be a rather dismal view.
1c03212cf7155c66…137b3a4a…2023-08-24 03:51:18 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 14:45:08 asciilifeform: battlefield is for gc'ing 'surplus' orcs, so far, by mutual agreement, rather than what it loox like to the uninitiated.
1e36d1bffc996bb5…fc996bb5…2023-08-21 18:07:20 <asciilifeform> experiment concerned the question of whether one could even have a usably-fast full-system emulator without dynamic recompilation.
aaa3fa6d5a032147…f7909e08…2023-08-22 17:18:38 <signpost> awt: yep, I have a relative with a decent amount of acreage out there. spent enough time in the woods to get chigger bites all over my nutsack.
3e08f4701c03212c…f7155c66…2023-08-24 03:51:09 <gregorynyssa> Would you mind sharing how you came to this conclusion (eg. from which writings)?
b5a284a61e36d1bf…1e36d1bf…2023-08-21 18:07:51 <asciilifeform> ( answr was 'maybe', on 3Ghz opteron, 'm' gave performance roughly like 486dx2, lol )
c36b3ac23e08f470…3e08f470…2023-08-24 03:52:50 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-23#1030525 << Is the M4 not a good rifle?
e1fbbde3b5a284a6…b5a284a6…2023-08-21 18:09:36 <asciilifeform> bottleneck, unsurprisingly, was tlb lookup (i.e. virtual to phys address translation on erry mem access)
fa63cdd509d56132…09d56132…2023-08-22 17:19:08 signpost will spray affected area with repellent vigorously next time
0edbb0dfc36b3ac2…1c03212c…2023-08-24 03:53:12 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 14:51:04 signpost[asciilifeform]: eh, he addresses this. our conventional equipment is shit.
68610660e1fbbde3…31733283…2023-08-21 23:56:20 <shinohai> awt: was the chroot issue only one you had during bootstrap of pentacle? I'm still getting debootstrap errors such as "E: Couldn't download file:debs/dists/stretch/main/binary-amd64/Packages" etc. Had to manually insert keys since apparently "deb.debian.org" wants to redirect to "archive.debian.org" - sadly I nuked last in
f32c7b05fa63cdd5…fa63cdd5…2023-08-22 17:19:25 <signpost> if they got rid of their state income tax I'd consider living there
3397b4e20edbb0df…c36b3ac2…2023-08-24 04:05:25 <gregorynyssa> https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-director-predicted-putin-revenge-yevgeny-prigozhin-2023-8 << Here is an interesting article.
fc2db443f32c7b05…f32c7b05…2023-08-22 17:19:54 signpost got some work done on occ too, getting closer. been wrapping the thing in tests to wring out bugs.
dac30d2a3397b4e2…3397b4e2…2023-08-24 04:05:33 <gregorynyssa> "CIA director predicted Putin would seek revenge on Yevgeny Prigozhin"
95d9a5e3fc2db443…e1fbbde3…2023-08-22 17:54:16 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-22#1029979 << not particularly similar. ('sumbody supposedly verified the over9000 kilometres of src' != 'small enuff i can read the asm & verify')
1970797fdac30d2a…769e8fee…2023-08-24 04:06:17 <signpost> one example he gives is that the dipshit abrams tank runs on a turbine, burns the same amount of gas moving or idling.
00e33a0ed4841990…6c714abd…2023-08-22 00:01:43 <shinohai> Have nfi what issue is, have tried on both Gentoo and Ubuntu - same thing.
5ec4dace95d9a5e3…81cf2275…2023-08-22 17:56:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-22 04:18:52 gregorynyssa[signpost|deedbot|PeterL]: It is similar to having a verified kernel such as L4 or a rump-kernel.
3e16a65300e33a0e…005e29b1…2023-08-22 00:47:52 <signpost> maybe I fucked something up when I updated the patches. will investigate
f60655e15ec4dace…1a428576…2023-08-23 00:33:24 <awt_akris> pest:///C20Q1p0a3pPBQXfrCmSt34gllTkHQ4b3XBRBtLW7q0= << will check it out when released
688c5155c0e050d6…c0e050d6…2023-08-24 04:06:56 <signpost> we overinvested in jets in an age of missiles
f7909e083e16a653…3e16a653…2023-08-22 00:48:21 signpost just got back from north carolina. nice place
3c282e15688c5155…688c5155…2023-08-24 04:07:59 <signpost> many other examples where a lack of contact with real warfare (rather than battering smaller countries) permits expensive, posturing idiocy.
fc97e040f7909e08…2a284a03…2023-08-22 00:49:55 <discord_bridge> (awtho) signpost: I found the forests there to be magical, or maybe like in a fairytale.
91c3bdf23c282e15…3c282e15…2023-08-24 04:09:15 <signpost> afaik we've still not fielded a maneuverable, "low" altitude hypersonic missile.
2bdb0f7491c3bdf2…91c3bdf2…2023-08-24 04:09:43 <signpost> the united states wants to die, insofar as such a thing as a coherent united states can be named.
e29a12852bdb0f74…2bdb0f74…2023-08-24 04:10:52 <signpost> to elaborate on the tank, you have to recycle the things back from the front to refuel every 8hrs
60a5f8527cc47445…6f372508…2023-08-23 17:29:59 <PeterL> I wonder, did plane just crash or did it crash after being shot down?
fdeaa0c02e626121…e3c7df1a…2023-08-23 17:33:54 <signpost> who can say why god takes the innocent away from us (:
de629aade29a1285…e29a1285…2023-08-24 04:11:42 <signpost> gregorynyssa: did you ever read Unrestricted Warfare? two chicom colonels wrote it on how to engage the US in hybrid warfare.
00c5c04afdeaa0c0…fdeaa0c0…2023-08-23 17:34:17 <signpost> but yeah, could come up with a 100 explanations including a drunk pilot.
8bd5d9f9de629aad…dac30d2a…2023-08-24 04:11:30 <gregorynyssa> signpost: Andrei Martyanov pointed out that the United States has invested too heavily in aircraft-carriers.
e66533e58bd5d9f9…8bd5d9f9…2023-08-24 04:11:51 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030543 << Yes I have read that book.
18b2e00c9430e6a0…228f4b0a…2023-08-23 17:38:25 <billymg> it's times like these i miss qntra headlines
c79fb130e66533e5…0edbb0df…2023-08-24 04:12:13 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 00:11:44 signpost[asciilifeform]: gregorynyssa: did you ever read Unrestricted Warfare? two chicom colonels wrote it on how to engage the US in hybrid warfare.
d3953967c79fb130…e66533e5…2023-08-24 04:14:17 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030541 << In terms of culture (especially education) there is a coherent United States.
12b7d4efd3953967…c79fb130…2023-08-24 04:14:39 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 00:09:45 signpost[asciilifeform]: the united states wants to die, insofar as such a thing as a coherent united states can be named.
9cec443f12b7d4ef…d3953967…2023-08-24 04:14:37 <gregorynyssa> Possession of an American university-degree is highly prized among non-Americans.
5426df4c9cec443f…9cec443f…2023-08-24 04:15:01 <gregorynyssa> Non-Americans often form close social bonds with each other on the basis of having American degrees.
57ab6afe5426df4c…5426df4c…2023-08-24 04:18:39 <gregorynyssa> Here is one of my favorite quotes from Unrestricted Warfare:
ad5e903157ab6afe…57ab6afe…2023-08-24 04:19:02 <gregorynyssa> "Perhaps, in the future, there should no longer be the division into an army, a navy, and an air force, but the division into a "sensor force," "mobile striking force," and "smart support force"
137b3a4aec9c5d9b…b7fdfbc3…2023-08-23 17:53:36 <dulapbot> BingoBoingo last seen in #asciilifeform on 2022-09-10 10:53:51: Assume narrow escapes. Hardware forfeit as abandoned seems a safe and far assumption. Brain may not be what it used to. Not much more than trying to build life outside of Mars dome restrictions
f3eeec27ad5e9031…ad5e9031…2023-08-24 04:19:28 <gregorynyssa> ... We do not support the optimistic view of the technology faction with regard to the military revolution. We do not believe that technology can penetrate the fog of the "contingency" of war, for contingency in war does not come from physical or geographical obstacles, but from people's minds."
bd4e3461137b3a4a…ec9c5d9b…2023-08-23 17:54:19 asciilifeform recalls when reading that thrd, had grim suspicion that fella's back on the sauce
492aee6df3eeec27…8c8e6e11…2023-08-24 04:33:56 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-23#1030024 << ah shit; I should have just increased recursion depth a few levels instead of cranking it up to literally infinite. Did not realize the dists/stretch subdirectory under debs/ recurred as deep as it did and ended up repeatedly downloading ~5GB of the same deb files
184d3cb4f3eeec27…f3eeec27…2023-08-24 05:06:40 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030554 << Since these are static files, maybe we can distribute them as a torrent.
baeb714c492aee6d…5ec4dace…2023-08-24 04:35:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 22:32:32 lobbes[signpost]: As such I found I was initially missing most vpatches, deb files, etc. on my host system. Adding a "-l inf" to my wget line appears to remedy this
701ff691184d3cb4…12b7d4ef…2023-08-24 05:07:03 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 00:33:59 lobbes[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-23#1030024 << ah shit; I should have just increased recursion depth a few levels instead of cranking it up to literally infinite. Did not realize the dists/stretch subdirectory under debs/ recurred as deep as it did and ended up repeat
9c6c4d1293f90457…93f90457…2023-08-23 18:05:00 <signpost> in other untergang, decent "interview" (where subj mostly talks, and "host" mostly nods and looks on) with col macgregor recently.
387a9e1ebaeb714c…492aee6d…2023-08-24 04:34:05 <lobbes> signpost sorry about that needless traffic hit to your server. happy to send coin to cover any extra costs that I may have incurred.
f5cff092701ff691…baeb714c…2023-08-24 05:08:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 22:32:32 lobbes[signpost]: As such I found I was initially missing most vpatches, deb files, etc. on my host system. Adding a "-l inf" to my wget line appears to remedy this
bfb72e799c6c4d12…9c6c4d12…2023-08-23 18:05:29 <signpost> https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1693761723230990509
926beb30f5cff092…f39d8135…2023-08-24 05:07:32 <signpost> I'm intentionally only relying on things that can be done from pentacle.
87cf1202f5cff092…184d3cb4…2023-08-24 05:27:30 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030567 << I had a working prototype of a swarm-downloading program (written in Java, of course).
ab86b209bfb72e79…bfb72e79…2023-08-23 18:05:38 signpost realizes the host's status as controlled opposition.
ced4d202926beb30…926beb30…2023-08-24 05:08:09 <signpost> I'm working on a swarm download mechanism that's less complicated than bittorrent (occ) and will eventually distribute pentacle over that.
f6d3344a87cf1202…701ff691…2023-08-24 05:27:52 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 01:08:12 signpost[asciilifeform]: I'm working on a swarm download mechanism that's less complicated than bittorrent (occ) and will eventually distribute pentacle over that.
905f3ce5ab86b209…ab86b209…2023-08-23 18:06:03 <signpost> macgregor elaborates on the utter incapability of the reich to withstand major power conflict.
3d06e50aced4d202…ced4d202…2023-08-24 05:09:16 <signpost> not at all opposed to somebody else doing a torrent, though
a20dfba7905f3ce5…bd4e3461…2023-08-23 18:43:31 <asciilifeform> reich worx by applying the ancient principle where 'no fortress is impregnable if the gates can admit an ass loaded with gold', rather than proper death match on battlefield, tho
eab490a32967b667…e206e14e…2023-08-24 04:37:13 <signpost> gregorynyssa: on the subject of minds, we're three generations from anyone who knows a major war can be lost.
b9945a0e3824eeaa…3824eeaa…2023-08-24 05:28:17 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030567 << Does your "occ" program use Pest-like packets with Serpent signatures?
f05b1179a20dfba7…a20dfba7…2023-08-23 18:45:08 <asciilifeform> battlefield is for gc'ing 'surplus' orcs, so far, by mutual agreement, rather than what it loox like to the uninitiated.
6b3a3250eab490a3…eab490a3…2023-08-24 04:37:50 <signpost> and if anyone's taken the chinese gents at their word, it's not apparent from the behavior of the american state.
31eb6b82b9945a0e…f6d3344a…2023-08-24 05:28:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 01:08:12 signpost[asciilifeform]: I'm working on a swarm download mechanism that's less complicated than bittorrent (occ) and will eventually distribute pentacle over that.
2202974bf05b1179…60a5f852…2023-08-23 18:49:41 <PeterL> battlefield also good for churn surplus inventory, prop up materiel manufacturers
f39d81356b3a3250…6b3a3250…2023-08-24 04:38:12 <signpost> it looks like one of those looted retail stores in chicago or san francisco.
60c6a51331eb6b82…3d06e50a…2023-08-24 05:29:11 <signpost> it's going to ride inside pest, so it doesn't need to concern itself with encryption
97aef7df60c6a513…b9945a0e…2023-08-24 05:29:28 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030574 << Oh, so it uses Pest.
769e8fee8fb815e7…905f3ce5…2023-08-23 18:51:03 <signpost> eh, he addresses this. our conventional equipment is shit.
0967bec397aef7df…31eb6b82…2023-08-24 05:29:49 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 01:29:13 signpost[asciilifeform]: it's going to ride inside pest, so it doesn't need to concern itself with encryption
1dae956b769e8fee…f05b1179…2023-08-23 18:57:27 <asciilifeform> signpost: unsurprisingly shit, it isn't intended for use against anyone but 'camel fuckers' and local dissenters
093b78eb1dae956b…04781712…2023-08-24 02:30:37 <lobbes> for anyone else that's stepping through the pentacle README, apparently wget (at least mine) limits recursion depth to 5 by default
765aabca1dae956b…db21a2f7…2023-09-01 18:48:44 <shinoa> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-30#1030166 << RIP, funny enuf about a fortnite ago I got bored and thought "You know - I oughta backup all the pgp keys in my wot from deedbot".
0bfc81f8bebc6dea…8fb815e7…2023-08-24 12:23:31 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-23#1030028 << US Army seems to think the M4 is inadequate, they are in the process of replacing it with a more powerful rifle
2210db00bebc6dea…bebc6dea…2023-08-24 15:01:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-08-22#1115182 << I think this is worth exploring.
8c8e6e11093b78eb…093b78eb…2023-08-24 02:30:41 <lobbes> As such I found I was initially missing most vpatches, deb files, etc. on my host system. Adding a "-l inf" to my wget line appears to remedy this
4e4d450a765aabca…765aabca…2023-09-01 18:49:15 <shinoa> Sadly, did not get pentacle working and nuked only copy I had of that :/
01c63a3e0bfc81f8…f5cff092…2023-08-24 12:25:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 23:54:59 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL|deedbot]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-23#1030525 << Is the M4 not a good rifle?
372a5d642210db00…93b424a6…2023-08-24 15:01:53 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-08-22 amberglint: it's not like you need multiple address spaces inside the emulator anyway as you can simply run it in multiple host processes
93b424a601c63a3e…0967bec3…2023-08-24 12:23:38 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-23 14:51:04 signpost[asciilifeform]: eh, he addresses this. our conventional equipment is shit.
345d76a8372a5d64…2210db00…2023-08-24 15:02:51 <gregorynyssa> Such a system will be similar to Docker, but better.
483e322c345d76a8…345d76a8…2023-08-24 15:04:02 <gregorynyssa> I have been waiting for updates from Curtis Yarvin regarding his idea of an outer-space colony.
7bb69c5d483e322c…483e322c…2023-08-24 15:05:25 <gregorynyssa> The idea which, as `asciilifeform` mentioned, may have been taken from the anime-series Last Exile.
d2db7f117bb69c5d…1dae956b…2023-08-24 17:38:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-24#1030081 << there aint likely many folx who want to run at speed of 486, asciilifeform suspects
98ba47877bb69c5d…7bb69c5d…2023-08-25 15:56:27 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: Did you mean to imply (in your remarks above) that wars are cooperatively arranged by elites of various nations?
06282483d2db7f11…01c63a3e…2023-08-24 17:40:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 11:05:00 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost|PeterL]: Such a system will be similar to Docker, but better.
768d2b4e06282483…d2db7f11…2023-08-24 17:39:08 <asciilifeform> was the reason wai abandoned that proggy.
c7d4dacad4c62ec7…d4c62ec7…2023-08-25 15:58:36 <gregorynyssa> I am not unfamiliar with the notion, but in my mind it borders on David Icke's school of thought.
a484c637768d2b4e…768d2b4e…2023-08-24 17:39:49 <asciilifeform> it could work for certain very niche uses, but asciilifeform aint sure what they are
91650d2ec7d4daca…c7d4daca…2023-08-25 15:59:11 <gregorynyssa> Of course, Socialists made such allegations against the older European society.
95d85b76a484c637…0bfc81f8…2023-08-24 17:41:58 <PeterL> is it conceivable that you could find a way to rework the addressing mechanism that you said was a bottleneck to get it going faster?
1a21d29191650d2e…91650d2e…2023-08-25 15:59:58 <gregorynyssa> But many wars of the 20th century involved Socialism.
ea9b665095d85b76…a484c637…2023-08-24 17:56:44 <asciilifeform> PeterL: maybe, but not substantially, unless as suggested here (with mmuless linux)
cb25295e1a21d291…1a21d291…2023-08-25 16:02:10 <gregorynyssa> Also, I obtained a copy of the Tea with Hitler book which you recommended, but have not read it yet.
f08de6a8ea9b6650…372a5d64…2023-08-24 17:56:44 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-08-22 amberglint: have you considered cutting the mmu emulation to the bone by hardwiring the address translation 1-to-1?
5eadadffcb25295e…cb25295e…2023-08-25 16:03:39 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-24#1030598 << One of the problems with Yarvin's approach is that the space-colony would be susceptible to "soft power."
b4cef68cf08de6a8…ea9b6650…2023-08-24 17:56:56 <asciilifeform> you still gotta check bounds and the mem-mapped i/o space tho, even there
261c62b65eadadff…f08de6a8…2023-08-25 16:04:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 14:43:17 asciilifeform: yarvin, concretely, departed from genre tradition by trying to present such a hellscape as a desirable place to live.
d110772c5eadadff…5eadadff…2023-08-25 16:05:08 <gregorynyssa> The members of the space-colony would be tempted to import entertainment from earth: films, TV series, video-games.
af679898b4cef68c…b4cef68c…2023-08-24 18:41:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-24#1030083 << afaik wasn't even the earliest story where an orbiting warden keeps planet in enforced-low-tech prison. but nfi who wrote the earliest such.
98f91a3ed110772c…a3054fea…2023-08-25 16:15:16 <signpost> coordination is not required where incentives are aligned.
80ae0cf5d110772c…d110772c…2023-08-26 01:30:19 <gregorynyssa> PeterL: asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbkI0vlg-Uc
6da67872af679898…06282483…2023-08-24 18:43:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-24 11:07:34 gregorynyssa[signpost|deedbot|PeterL]: The idea which, as `asciilifeform` mentioned, may have been taken from the anime-series Last Exile.
4a395ed798f91a3e…98f91a3e…2023-08-25 16:16:26 <signpost> will not speak for asciilifeform, but this is my view.
d63e077580ae0cf5…80ae0cf5…2023-08-26 01:31:23 <gregorynyssa> Here is an example of a domestic African science-fiction film. I saw this years ago.
690b5b676da67872…af679898…2023-08-24 18:43:17 <asciilifeform> yarvin, concretely, departed from genre tradition by trying to present such a hellscape as a desirable place to live.
fc986bcb4a395ed7…4a395ed7…2023-08-25 16:22:31 <signpost> I do not think the NATO/BRICS war is contrived, and I do think it will get hotter, *for* the above-stated reason.
cb6559df690b5b67…690b5b67…2023-08-24 18:44:32 <asciilifeform> ( see also signpost's old observation re: broken people wanting to create gods to satisfy their s&m . sadly can't seem to turn up that thrd )
7a7850bdfc986bcb…fc986bcb…2023-08-25 16:22:51 <signpost> there's nothing so profitable as hegemony, and we're weak, and getting weaker.
93c5726792b351b9…92b351b9…2023-08-26 01:34:46 <gregorynyssa> https://youtu.be/HHBkFNp9jb8?t=3483 << This is one of the exciting parts.
514a6f767a7850bd…776aebac…2023-08-25 17:37:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-25#1030111 << some of'em
866f3c7193c57267…93c57267…2023-08-27 09:14:24 <gregorynyssa> China has been planning a manned moon-landing for 2030.
77ef24ad0bbfc139…6da67872…2023-08-24 18:51:44 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-04-28 trinque: I remember the church derps used to say things like "there's a god-shaped hole in everyone". The homoeroticism of that aside, does appear that there's a "metaphysical domination" shaped hole in most folks. looks like this when nobody in your land bothers to stick it in.
94863823514a6f76…18be8b48…2023-08-25 17:39:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-25 11:58:38 gregorynyssa[PeterL|deedbot|signpost]: asciilifeform: Did you mean to imply (in your remarks above) that wars are cooperatively arranged by elites of various nations?
2c6cc9d7111cdcce…00e33a0e…2023-08-26 12:15:13 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-25#1030132 << welp there's an hour of life you won't get back.
e142b3e0111cdcce…df690ea6…2023-08-27 03:55:05 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-25#1030133 << reminded immediately of ugandan filmography lul
4fd1fc2f866f3c71…866f3c71…2023-08-27 09:15:59 <gregorynyssa> I do not understand why it is so hard to send a person to the moon.
27defa1494863823…514a6f76…2023-08-25 17:38:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-25#1030119 << what entertainment do we import from ant hills ?
699383ea2c6cc9d7…979e7350…2023-08-26 12:17:06 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-25 21:32:32 gregorynyssa[deedbot|PeterL|signpost]: PeterL: asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbkI0vlg-Uc
8d8bffc5e142b3e0…699383ea…2023-08-27 03:56:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-25 21:33:34 gregorynyssa[signpost|deedbot|PeterL]: Here is an example of a domestic African science-fiction film. I saw this years ago.
979e735027defa14…94863823…2023-08-25 17:40:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-25 12:07:19 gregorynyssa[deedbot|signpost|PeterL]: The members of the space-colony would be tempted to import entertainment from earth: films, TV series, video-games.
8c3fba2f2fb6daa1…2fb6daa1…2023-08-27 09:19:15 <gregorynyssa> Twelve men have walked on the moon so far, all of them American.
18be8b48437c86ca…77ef24ad…2023-08-24 18:54:36 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-11-27 trinque: drug users (see: g_l) do this, go around declaring doctrines like lisplinux-chimera god and inventing pegleg rituals of devotion to her
7023bded9d9eef38…9d9eef38…2023-08-27 03:57:00 <crtdaydreams> lotsa interesting stuff happening, prigozhin, moon landing, etc...
6c5301a9fc15551f…fc15551f…2023-08-25 17:49:53 <asciilifeform> the warden, in this scenario, is necessarily at least coupla notches smarter than the prisoners.
8efeaf8162ca98a5…62ca98a5…2023-08-24 18:58:07 <asciilifeform> there's anuther psychosis where sufferer wants to actually build gods that could 'properly box in' uppity humans. e.g. the 'ai cult' folx
5e5f01f96c5301a9…af08685a…2023-08-25 17:52:38 <PeterL> I've heard that Nigeria has a huge movie industry, but somehow I've never seen any of their products
fdb3eba8237707e3…111cdcce…2023-08-27 15:25:24 <signpost> points to what foolishness it was for us to shut that program down.
caae5f16237707e3…237707e3…2023-08-29 07:35:28 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-08-28#1030663 << That is funny.
f568661dfdb3eba8…fdb3eba8…2023-08-27 15:25:45 <signpost> we *might* get another landing done now about 6 decades later.
2347ae06caae5f16…261c62b6…2023-08-29 07:35:54 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-08-28 16:44:14 PeterL[asciilifeform]: manual deedbot response: $26070.1
a3d7145ca3054fea…8efeaf81…2023-08-24 18:58:56 <asciilifeform> i.e. for some it aint enuff to cut off own cock; gotta somehow cut off ~all~ cocks
7d0ac796f568661d…f568661d…2023-08-27 15:26:14 signpost despises the american need for nemesis most of our cultural failings.
1da262052347ae06…caae5f16…2023-08-29 07:36:39 <gregorynyssa> https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/the-looting-conspiracy << This is reminiscent of the earlier theory of `asciilifeform` regarding the establishment of a national gendarmerie.
7d857eaaa3d7145c…95d85b76…2023-08-24 18:59:15 <PeterL> do you mean they want something to control all the people they don't like, or they want something to save them from themself?
56fbdf977d0ac796…7d0ac796…2023-08-27 15:26:59 <signpost> gotta keep these things operational as repositories of technical understanding, if nothing else.
199642ba3013e92d…2347ae06…2023-08-29 14:43:12 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2013-07-01 asciilifeform: all this talk of IDs at store counters will seem nostalgically quaint when start needing a working RFID beacon just to pass through public doorways.
776aebacaf08685a…a3d7145c…2023-08-24 19:00:16 <asciilifeform> PeterL: 'fix' world, in the sense where veterinarian 'fixes' dog
f3f9bd3f199642ba…deec533b…2023-08-30 22:56:24 <signpost> whelp, I have apparently lost that server. while I have my software projects handy, I did not have a recent backup of that database. couple of (albeit quiet) years of data lost.
67e3f4ee776aebac…e40ae31d…2023-08-25 02:22:39 <awt_akris> Trump mugshot. If only Trump were more like this guy.
f9de6254f3f9bd3f…3482a60e…2023-08-30 23:29:44 <awt_akris> That really sucks. Reminds me I should do some maintenance sometime soon.
909e977cf9de6254…f3f9bd3f…2023-08-30 23:32:59 <signpost> yeah, and on my professional projects CI/CD is the first thing to happen, but... this didn't get that treatment, so it'd be a slog to stand all of it back up.
13ae2136909e977c…909e977c…2023-08-30 23:33:20 <signpost> blog will eventually come back. other items would be better off getting reinvented atop pest.
4d9527e95d13c9f3…3013e92d…2023-08-31 00:35:28 <asciilifeform> signpost: what didja actually lose in there ?
19630f074d9527e9…5d13c9f3…2023-08-31 03:42:10 <signpost> blog, deedbot, wot site all lived on that box
9b3686d319630f07…19630f07…2023-08-31 03:43:14 <signpost> I have a dump of the deeb of deedbot & wot from a while back, and blog pretty recent.
c96beb1a9b3686d3…4d9527e9…2023-08-31 14:03:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-30#1030172 << damn
2bf19bbec96beb1a…8d8bffc5…2023-08-31 14:05:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-30 23:44:01 signpost: blog, deedbot, wot site all lived on that box
dd227fbf2bf19bbe…1fb4d44d…2023-08-31 14:09:29 <PeterL> what happened, did the box die? or was stolen?
537309d544286b1e…33993b1b…2023-08-31 16:59:16 <signpost> I don't think there's much use in standing it back up as it was.
689d64c3537309d5…44286b1e…2023-08-31 16:58:44 <mod6> fair enough, no time like the present to re-think it
60dfd90f689d64c3…537309d5…2023-08-31 17:00:07 <signpost> whatever suceeds the centralized wot oughtn't have the pitfall of guy's machine disappearing nuking the thing.
a8b9b7b957844e77…60dfd90f…2023-08-31 17:01:18 <signpost> was anyone in practice using the old wot for anything?
44577989a8b9b7b9…a8b9b7b9…2023-08-31 17:01:56 <signpost> thing to do is keep building pest. I'm still hacking on occ when I have time.
76e9a91644577989…57844e77…2023-08-31 17:00:46 <mod6> i mean, i still know how to use it, but haven't had to use it for a while. i also like that it exists.
0895bc5b76e9a916…76e9a916…2023-08-31 17:02:36 <mod6> nice. if pest can grow into something that handles it, that'd be cool.
53e1805045264d55…c96beb1a…2023-08-31 17:08:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-08-31#1030186 << asciilifeform (& other folx) had links to it, when mentioning wot folx in vtronic context.
f44f248953e18050…2bf19bbe…2023-08-31 17:10:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-31 13:03:08 signpost: was anyone in practice using the old wot for anything?
d1fbd8c8f44f2489…53e18050…2023-08-31 17:09:15 <asciilifeform> but yea, the old #t wot has been afaik effectively read-only for yrs
3fad68abd1fbd8c8…d1fbd8c8…2023-08-31 17:09:44 <asciilifeform> there was the get-in-the-wot-and-gate-to-pest thing signpost made last yr tho
dcb405843fad68ab…45264d55…2023-08-31 17:08:37 <mod6> yeah, i saw some people make some updates in the last 2 years or so, but not super often.
f3d7b6a564898eae…64898eae…2023-08-31 17:11:37 <asciilifeform> the deedbot www was also the go-to place to fetch pubkeys quickly.
137fde2bf3d7b6a5…f3d7b6a5…2023-08-31 17:12:13 asciilifeform will need to mirror the ones he linked to. prolly good practice regardless of whether signpost digs up the backup
460d3840137fde2b…c181b11c…2023-08-31 17:12:47 <signpost> yeah, I apologize for this. not going to be able to immediately divert attention to standing it back up atm.
fba91914460d3840…137fde2b…2023-08-31 17:14:48 <asciilifeform> archive.org seems to have working snapshot incl. pubkeys (tho nfi whether for all)
81a3102807955529…07955529…2023-08-31 17:18:48 <asciilifeform> signpost: imho if you've spare cycles, better the pest occ than museum piece
226564c96fe249c4…81a31028…2023-08-31 17:19:29 <asciilifeform> esp. given as the #t museum can still be viewed at above link
ab525ec46fe249c4…565ae126…2023-09-01 08:47:53 <crtdaydreams> question for phf re: red wing iron ranger boots, I finally got a pair and I'm questioning sizing, I had to buy them online as Red wing stores are virtually non-existent in the bush, should they be a completely snug fit out of the box with absolutely no room for movement within the boot? I can slide my foot forward within i
ebed1995226564c9…226564c9…2023-08-31 17:20:41 <asciilifeform> afaik the only folx who are alive, still on the net, and still using the names/pubkeys displayed in that wot, are all tuned in here.
29d42fa3ab525ec4…ab525ec4…2023-09-01 08:47:53 <crtdaydreams> t and I can stick two fingers comfortably between the heel and back of the boot
2853f44a29d42fa3…f9de6254…2023-09-01 13:03:43 <awt_akris> crtdaydreams: phf [pest://NbRenjeCQcJQBkGEIlhOWRKPfQdJuEWEE/U8Wd+x67Q=][doesn't hang around here anymore]
1a4b01ec2853f44a…18b2e00c…2023-09-01 13:52:29 <billymg> sad to hear the news about deedbot, etc. like asciilifeform said i relied on it mainly to add context when mentioning wot members, but i can just update the links i suppose
60f1cbd41a4b01ec…1a4b01ec…2023-09-01 13:53:27 <billymg> crtdaydreams: they should be snug, almost to the point of being slightly uncomfortable, the leather will then stretch as you break them in
fa981acf60f1cbd4…60f1cbd4…2023-09-01 13:53:49 <billymg> often with work boots you have to go a size down, or sometimes a size and a half
cef1ad3dfa981acf…fa981acf…2023-09-01 13:54:24 <billymg> the pair you got sound too big, you should exchange them if you can
07c33cbd80fad888…80fad888…2023-09-01 13:56:40 <billymg> ticker bot is the mission critical bot for me
bb1448a207c33cbd…ebed1995…2023-09-01 18:05:50 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-01#1030211 << asciilifeform suspects that he went into analogue world, the 1 where thoroughbred horses, rifles, wild meat, etc
2d8bf7c1bb1448a2…f44f2489…2023-09-01 18:07:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-01 09:05:35 awt_akris[signpost]: crtdaydreams: phf [pest://NbRenjeCQcJQBkGEIlhOWRKPfQdJuEWEE/U8Wd+x67Q=][doesn't hang around here anymore]
6b2e8cc00000000000000000…2023-09-06 07:53:04 <gregorynyssa> billymg: signpost: I would like to download the files of Pentacle as well.
d3984c026b2e8cc0…6b2e8cc0…2023-09-06 07:53:16 <gregorynyssa> I have started the downloading of the torrent, but so far there are no peers.
76a017b8d3984c02…d3984c02…2023-09-06 09:14:01 <gregorynyssa> Now there is a peer in the Netherlands. I did not realize that there were Dutch people in this channel.
8e614e47491beb94…2967b667…2023-09-06 13:54:55 <lobbes> gregorynyssa: I'm seeding the torrent atm if you need it. Will attempt to keep it seeding throughout the day
064d7d868e614e47…24f3218a…2023-09-06 14:22:30 <billymg> i'm still at a 0 ratio on that torrent, but it is seeding
ff5f3b2e0000000000000000…2023-09-29 18:53:08 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-28#1031169 << Are you speaking of iCE40 by Lattice?
1a4dd0b0ff5f3b2e…a27d3ebe…2023-09-29 18:53:55 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-28 13:58:13 asciilifeform: e.g. 'sea of gates' fpga plenty big enuff to hold a nic phy + pestron has been avail. for 5+ yrs nao
222072bf1a4dd0b0…ff5f3b2e…2023-09-29 18:53:16 <gregorynyssa> https://www.latticesemi.com/ << Their website is down.
f6bce0cf222072bf…222072bf…2023-09-29 18:54:56 <gregorynyssa> Are you still working on your own HDL language to compete against Verilog and VHDL?
ae42a941f6bce0cf…e5a87c2a…2023-09-29 20:44:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030666 << yes
51fbc0baae42a941…34371118…2023-09-29 20:46:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 14:55:51 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-28#1031169 << Are you speaking of iCE40 by Lattice?
dd7cf4f051fbc0ba…1a4dd0b0…2023-09-29 20:45:02 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-09-28 13:58:13 asciilifeform: e.g. 'sea of gates' fpga plenty big enuff to hold a nic phy + pestron has been avail. for 5+ yrs nao
208a8672dd7cf4f0…ae42a941…2023-09-29 20:45:06 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030668 << seems to load here
755acd5d208a8672…51fbc0ba…2023-09-29 20:47:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 14:55:58 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL]: https://www.latticesemi.com/ << Their website is down.
17a557af755acd5d…208a8672…2023-09-29 20:45:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-09-29#1030669 << no and nfi whether ever will
228b679617a557af…755acd5d…2023-09-29 20:47:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-29 14:57:38 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL]: Are you still working on your own HDL language to compete against Verilog and VHDL?
8e77d54d228b6796…228b6796…2023-09-29 20:47:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-09-14 13:43:45 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: roasting in commercial hell and prolly will roast at least until nov.
870f898b8e77d54d…17a557af…2023-09-29 20:46:22 asciilifeform not working on anyffin useful/interesting at all, and not knows when will again get to
44bf510cc4a1c873…dd7cf4f0…2023-09-29 20:50:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-08-30 asciilifeform: occasional 'nights/weekends' as often happens aint enuff.
40ff533544bf510c…44bf510c…2023-09-29 20:50:40 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-27 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-27#1089520 << plans w/out resources tend to take, lol, ~inf. time.
0e3009130000000000000000…2023-10-05 05:48:54 <gregorynyssa> I wanted to ask, is `ossasepia` a Romanian or a North America who went to Romania to study?
6902d93db809be13…b809be13…2023-10-05 05:50:27 <gregorynyssa> Is anyone working on an improved version of tools for V?
85b84bf7d75e5827…c3a375a4…2023-10-05 15:00:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030733 << ro chix, with kilometres of autobio in the old logs
36ca92a085b84bf7…8b18fb63…2023-10-05 15:02:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 01:51:40 gregorynyssa[PeterL|signpost]: I wanted to ask, is `ossasepia` a Romanian or a North America who went to Romania to study?
56d8b239650b4c78…650b4c78…2023-10-05 15:03:00 <asciilifeform> dun get hot'n'bothered, she's married w/ children etc
0be6124556d8b239…56d8b239…2023-10-05 15:04:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030738 << loox like not?
f6f0cb140be61245…36ca92a0…2023-10-05 15:06:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 10:44:52 billymg: *taps mic* is this thing on?
f4dd444d01c96352…01c96352…2023-10-05 15:06:47 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030735 << shinohai had earlier dusted off a cl vtron by esthlos. see his www.
d0cb7d1bf4dd444d…f6f0cb14…2023-10-05 15:08:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 01:53:14 gregorynyssa[signpost|PeterL]: Is anyone working on an improved version of tools for V?
5a4713a4d0cb7d1b…f4dd444d…2023-10-05 15:07:31 <asciilifeform> there's diana's thing also, but afaik it aint posted anywhere, is only in-house
04671c635a4713a4…5a4713a4…2023-10-05 15:08:23 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: precisely what kind of improvements do you think it needs ?
53a5cf060000000000000000…2023-10-05 22:05:43 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-05#1031246 << It is hard to tell that she is not a native speaker of English.
d158e12053a5cf06…dd72d0e6…2023-10-05 22:06:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 11:00:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-05#1030733 << ro chix, with kilometres of autobio in the old logs
57d954b0d158e120…d0cb7d1b…2023-10-05 22:08:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 01:51:40 gregorynyssa[PeterL|signpost]: I wanted to ask, is `ossasepia` a Romanian or a North America who went to Romania to study?
396965cf57d954b0…53a5cf06…2023-10-05 22:06:54 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-05#1031256 << I am not too dissatisfied with the existing tools, but, ideally, there would be a single statically linked executable.
6a961a4d396965cf…d158e120…2023-10-05 22:07:44 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 11:08:23 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: precisely what kind of improvements do you think it needs ?
5352ddae6a961a4d…396965cf…2023-10-05 22:07:50 <gregorynyssa> With no cross-executable invocations (eg. differentiation of files is not delegated to the diff(1) executable).
2a007cba5352ddae…5352ddae…2023-10-05 22:09:39 <gregorynyssa> I have had interest in writing a book regarding V and its applications for my students.
3a5b475c2a007cba…2a007cba…2023-10-05 22:12:36 <gregorynyssa> Well, the book should discuss the history of other version-control systems as well, from SCSS to CVS to Git.
7d8bfb313a5b475c…c91c0f2f…2023-10-05 22:23:43 <discord_bridge> (awtho) gregorynssa: still would like to read your book on Chinese.
3a8d37473a5b475c…3a5b475c…2023-10-06 00:59:04 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-05#1031265 << Thanks for your interest. I wrote half of the book, but the subject was diverted to Old Chinese (ie. Ancient Chinese), because I felt there was a pressing need for such material.
a67e1a227d8bfb31…e623c7b6…2023-10-05 23:33:50 <signpost> pentacle builds a static bin of phf’s vtools
127806243a8d3747…6a961a4d…2023-10-06 01:00:06 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 18:23:47 discord_bridge[asciilifeform]: (awtho) gregorynssa: still would like to read your book on Chinese.
dba5087612780624…3a8d3747…2023-10-06 01:00:24 <gregorynyssa> I would be glad to speak further about the subject through direct messaging.
d4d08f6cdba50876…dba50876…2023-10-06 01:00:36 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-05#1031266 << That is great to hear.
d2cac91ed4d08f6c…12780624…2023-10-06 01:01:26 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-05 19:33:52 signpost[asciilifeform]: pentacle builds a static bin of phf’s vtools
09a8c628d2cac91e…d4d08f6c…2023-10-06 01:00:43 <gregorynyssa> It is only for sixty-four bit, am I right?
1563ab3709a8c628…09a8c628…2023-10-06 01:02:45 <gregorynyssa> Also, does Pentacle, as a whole, assume a sixty-four bit environment?
7eb0e5041563ab37…bfc146e9…2023-10-06 14:43:21 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: outta curiosity, are you on 32bit irons ? (if so -- which? and why..)
5d95eea00000000000000000…2023-10-09 00:10:35 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-10-06#1031276 << I am not using thirty-two bit hardware, but sometimes I still use thirty-two bit kernels.
33747d645d95eea0…d2cac91e…2023-10-09 00:11:29 <dulapbot> Logged on 2023-10-06 10:43:21 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: outta curiosity, are you on 32bit irons ? (if so -- which? and why..)
9105cfdd33747d64…5d95eea0…2023-10-09 00:12:10 <gregorynyssa> One reason is that I do not agree with the way that sixty-four bit kernels keep two sets of dynamic libraries, one for x86 and one for x64.
9f789c549105cfdd…9105cfdd…2023-10-09 00:13:22 <gregorynyssa> On both Windows and Linux, the dual support of x86 and x64 executables has resulted in a mess.
38a0d8979f789c54…d75e5827…2023-10-09 01:28:43 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-08#1030779 << WWIII?
849915d838a0d897…1f41442c…2023-10-09 01:28:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-08 18:08:29 signpost: whelp.
b7577ed899fac3f2…99fac3f2…2023-10-09 17:06:47 <signpost> the nato bloc was already getting bled white of its conventional arms stockpiles in ukraine.
aa65cab2b7577ed8…b7577ed8…2023-10-09 17:07:49 <signpost> I don't expect Iran went to all this trouble to do nothing next.
eba5b0e8aa65cab2…98f898cf…2023-10-11 16:48:50 <awt_akris> Found a couple of new online "republics." Have joined. Very interesting.
ab61d38feba5b0e8…7d8bfb31…2023-10-11 16:54:38 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Interesting thread re: paper btc: https://twitter.com/Croesus_BTC/status/1712141043796426757
17839a6eab61d38f…38a0d897…2023-10-11 16:58:17 <billymg> awt: any of them use pgp? or all 'signal' and the like?
0144ea5217839a6e…eba5b0e8…2023-10-11 16:57:37 <awt_akris> Nah all out in the open - discord, twitter, various saas webshits.
6942bf4f0144ea52…178d7fd9…2023-10-11 17:29:02 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: canhaz links ? ( to the 'republics' etc )
29445e546942bf4f…0144ea52…2023-10-11 17:45:29 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: most content is behind a paywall. But here's a sort of "link bot" for one of them: https://bowtiedisland.com/about/. The other is completely paywalled, but run by a guy called Meta_Trav (some may recall ParabolicTrav) on x. inb4 "smells like xyz scam." Well aware of all the "make money while u sleep" "l
2306135419408017…19408017…2023-10-11 17:47:08 <awt_akris> In any case, both are hierarchically structured.
8818d109e72496fe…6942bf4f…2023-10-11 17:48:08 <asciilifeform> 'The Master Strategy: Get career on Wall Street M&A, Technology or Sales. Spend free time developing an online business. Buy crypto and stocks. Be set for life in ~3 years.' << lol
10b05e826e832ca0…6e832ca0…2023-10-11 17:50:06 <awt_akris> the bowtied guys don't seem to fully grok btc, fucked around (cynically, as if there were another way to do it) with nfts, etc.
d13c1a7b10b05e82…8818d109…2023-10-11 17:56:21 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: entirely possib that they understand correctly
ca2ccd57d13c1a7b…33747d64…2023-10-11 17:56:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-14 asciilifeform: and given as the entire purpose of a shitcoin is to 'replay history' with perp at the center.
4f22e85cca2ccd57…10b05e82…2023-10-11 17:58:36 <awt_akris> What I like about them is the acknowledgement that there's no future in a corp. job (esp. if white) and I find their attempts to find workarounds interesting.
5d8477dbca2ccd57…d13c1a7b…2023-10-11 17:58:36 <asciilifeform> btc per se long ago went outta the orbit where street scum can '1000% profit' by squeezing pocket change outta over9000 idjits
175df8df4f22e85c…5d8477db…2023-10-11 17:58:57 <asciilifeform> today, from their pov, it is only a destination to cash out into.
a70a29ec175df8df…4f22e85c…2023-10-11 18:00:26 <awt_akris> obvs. involves all sorts of unclean involvement with platforms.
fc1eba9b3b275249…ca2ccd57…2023-10-11 18:01:21 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-09-25 asciilifeform: but in asciilifeform's lights, playing 'i'ma do the same thing as 100,000 other folx and i'ma be the one who makes bank Because Reasons' game is a waste of time
fc4f7c33fc1eba9b…a70a29ec…2023-10-11 18:03:20 <awt_akris> My perspective on this is that it's a war of attrition problem.
d25150d9fc4f7c33…fc4f7c33…2023-10-11 18:04:01 <awt_akris> 100,000 other folks on average are retards, give up after x weeks, etc.
4e5b7db5d25150d9…3b275249…2023-10-11 18:04:25 <asciilifeform> historically in btc scam space it was precisely the tards who 'held bag' longest tho
13f2516a4e5b7db5…4e5b7db5…2023-10-11 18:04:49 <asciilifeform> it's the scam operator who (sometimes) wins, rather than the most persistent chump
1684c57313f2516a…d25150d9…2023-10-11 18:05:49 <awt_akris> well, so there we go. the tards won the war of attrition.
7a40aaaf7e6260c7…6540489a…2023-10-11 18:06:29 <asciilifeform> afaik most folx who had pile o' coin in 2010 lost ~100%
b375fb27e82ba334…e82ba334…2023-10-11 18:06:45 <asciilifeform> ( either by participating in 'mpexes' or cashing out for chump change )
73117824b375fb27…7e6260c7…2023-10-11 18:06:56 <awt_akris> but the war of attrition comment was more wrt "income stream"
0218db3773117824…b375fb27…2023-10-11 18:07:58 <asciilifeform> who & where has 'income stream', other than the folx peddling 'lemme teach you how to Get Rich!' materials
5e8cdb960218db37…0218db37…2023-10-11 18:09:20 <asciilifeform> for all that was ever said about mp, this is 1 atrocity he afaik never committed
67f5b9324d656720…4d656720…2023-10-11 18:10:32 <asciilifeform> but imho importantly did not include promises re 'i'ma teach you to Income Stream' etc
14c5dc3667f5b932…67f5b932…2023-10-11 18:11:05 <asciilifeform> this kinda thing has been a glue trap for desperate dimwitts for centuries, long pre-dates btc
6fe3eb9714c5dc36…39aa298a…2023-10-11 18:11:24 <awt_akris> Let's imagine there actually are wealthy folks out there willing to share some info - maybe a small fee is a good filter. Who wants to deal with losers who can't aford 15 bux a month, for example?
a12720326fe3eb97…14c5dc36…2023-10-11 18:11:28 <asciilifeform> the 'record of success' -- other than for the perps -- is null set
a32117bd74f22c38…6fe3eb97…2023-10-11 18:12:32 <awt_akris> Why was mp? Idk. He had some post with almost exactly that title.
e573fc88a32117bd…74f22c38…2023-10-11 18:13:07 <asciilifeform> mp wasn't playing 0sum games against his audience when wrote subj
eed0b067e573fc88…a32117bd…2023-10-11 18:13:33 <awt_akris> having not read any of the work, not sure you can make that claim here.
f1187adceed0b067…e573fc88…2023-10-11 18:13:57 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: canhaz link to representative piece ?
68b51431f1187adc…eed0b067…2023-10-11 18:15:00 <awt_akris> For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that?
45f31c2268b51431…f1187adc…2023-10-11 18:16:27 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: they may also include 'look 2 ways before crossing streets'. usually these have a mix of 'financial advice' pablum cribbed from open sources and whatever 'magick'
0888aa4345f31c22…45f31c22…2023-10-11 18:17:11 <asciilifeform> sometimes such pieces not even pushing any obv scam line, but simply brag material, a la taleb
d3991ab70888aa43…0888aa43…2023-10-11 18:17:34 <asciilifeform> i.e. author's sole intent is to peacock 'how clever' he supposedly was
e33d58d80888aa43…fc1eba9b…2023-10-11 18:17:35 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-06-10 asciilifeform: learn to win lottery like me!!
130accd9e33d58d8…68b51431…2023-10-11 18:17:57 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: I am well aware of these tropes.
de67190e130accd9…d3991ab7…2023-10-11 18:18:04 <asciilifeform> which category subj falls into, cannot say w/out reading specific item
a937798de445fc05…de67190e…2023-10-11 18:18:49 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's contention, however, is that these are ~the~ categories, 'altruistic fella wants to help us all get rich!' aint a category, cuz it's a logical absurdity
c2b1f32fea0fa850…e445fc05…2023-10-11 18:20:06 <awt_akris> Not entirely clear that there's no benefit to having a following of successful men.
3f1c66c8c2b1f32f…ea0fa850…2023-10-11 18:20:30 <asciilifeform> 'successful' folx generally not 'followers'
d3a394c6d30fac93…dd227fbf…2023-10-11 18:21:39 <PeterL> could be useful to have a cadre of successful friends though
a660894ad3a394c6…3f1c66c8…2023-10-11 18:22:14 <asciilifeform> which e.g. mp follower today seems notably 'successful' on acct of having been subj ?
bf75e304a660894a…d30fac93…2023-10-11 18:23:31 <awt_akris> Who knows. If smart, they wouldn't make a big deal about it.
9c4fa335bf75e304…a660894a…2023-10-11 18:24:05 <asciilifeform> 'who knows', for probative purposes, ~= nullset
78d1d10d9c4fa335…9c4fa335…2023-10-11 18:24:28 <asciilifeform> ( tho entirely possible that e.g. kakobrekla (!) made bank, packed suitcase just in time )
bafa18c278d1d10d…bf75e304…2023-10-11 18:25:33 <awt_akris> I'm certain mp is responsible for at least a few bitcoin millionaires.
55e2a12dbafa18c2…78d1d10d…2023-10-11 18:25:57 <asciilifeform> unless asciilifeform misunderstands above, there can be at most 22 'bitcoin millionaires' neh
d441d3108d1313c8…55e2a12d…2023-10-11 18:26:26 <asciilifeform> ( and quite likely there are in fact none .. )
c93f39ffd441d310…d441d310…2023-10-11 18:26:39 <asciilifeform> aa well that's not much to write home about is it
f3acca14c93f39ff…8d1313c8…2023-10-11 18:27:13 <awt_akris> idk it's like top 1% of wealth depending on how many millions.
4b1bca61f3acca14…c93f39ff…2023-10-11 18:28:17 <asciilifeform> naturally. but the bare categorical min. aint much to be excited over
35dda2284b1bca61…4b1bca61…2023-10-11 18:29:18 <asciilifeform> for ref, avg/med house in wash. dc costs 1mil+ (for 3-4 yrs nao)
24f5347535dda228…35dda228…2023-10-11 18:29:36 <asciilifeform> these folx, many of whom have garbage bag instead of 1+ window on their car, 'millionaires' technically.
a2789a6424f53475…f3acca14…2023-10-11 18:29:38 <awt_akris> In any case maybe nice to have a few financially independent frens who owe you or at least respect you.
d1922c5ea2789a64…24f53475…2023-10-11 18:30:01 <asciilifeform> noshit. but nobody's getting there by subscribing to 'get rich mag' lol
447875ebd3c13d05…d1922c5e…2023-10-11 18:30:36 asciilifeform witnessed meatspace associates going down this toilet, repeatedly. otherwise quite intelligent folx, at that
dafeeb39447875eb…447875eb…2023-10-11 18:30:54 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: at least with wage work one not suffers the illusion that 'will get there'
00069f87280e5d5c…d3c13d05…2023-10-11 18:32:03 <awt_akris> Is why they recommand not to quit "w2" until you have 2x "w2" earnings
e58d18f100069f87…280e5d5c…2023-10-11 18:32:31 <asciilifeform> the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason
811d3121e58d18f1…00069f87…2023-10-11 18:32:32 <awt_akris> also recommend to get "w2" in specific fields
250dee04811d3121…e58d18f1…2023-10-11 18:32:43 <asciilifeform> 'there must be a way' 'there must be someone who will truly teach the way' etc
7ff1d9f7250dee04…811d3121…2023-10-11 18:35:44 <awt_akris> They discuss desperate middle aged d00dz a lot
6d146e327ff1d9f7…250dee04…2023-10-11 18:36:51 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: canhaz link/paste of 'best of' $author ?
8bce9d0f6d146e32…6d146e32…2023-10-11 18:37:39 <asciilifeform> e.g. tate for instance was entertaining. asciilifeform in fact enjoyed reading his peacock nonsense.
93ecd9b98bce9d0f…8bce9d0f…2023-10-11 18:37:56 <asciilifeform> ( unlike e.g. taleb, who a terminal snoar imho )
df6c9e4e93ecd9b9…7ff1d9f7…2023-10-11 18:42:11 <awt_akris> If I find something that fits the bill at some point I will paste. At the moment nothing comes to mind.
916beaf6df6c9e4e…df6c9e4e…2023-10-11 18:45:10 <awt_akris> I don't know what I'd do if you asked me to do the same for mp. Most would bounce off the first paragraph of anything he wrote.
411ce4c37473ef3d…7473ef3d…2023-10-11 18:47:24 <asciilifeform> generally asciilifeform 'bounces off' when sees that $material 'compresses well', i.e. is ~identical to '100,000 other', like nigerian spamola
2f8bd8d77473ef3d…e33d58d8…2023-10-11 18:47:31 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2013-11-09 asciilifeform: carried on a correspondence of sort with mp since writing a piece on his creation (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108)
636940122f8bd8d7…d3a394c6…2023-10-11 18:49:20 <PeterL> MP's [http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-live-to-be-rich/ ]["How to live to be rich"] was pretty good,
45531ef463694012…411ce4c3…2023-10-11 18:50:07 <asciilifeform> generally serious operators use 'list algo' as combinatorial bruteforce . ( to mp's credit, he did not )
a271e23545531ef4…45531ef4…2023-10-11 18:51:06 <asciilifeform> PeterL: his 'max out cc' + 'pick a developing country to your liking and go' thing was tiresome imho
90afb6fa45531ef4…2f8bd8d7…2023-10-11 18:51:07 <dulapbot> Logged on 2022-10-25 14:29:06 asciilifeform: ( see also mp's review of 'chump list' algo )
0dbc5ffe90afb6fa…a271e235…2023-10-11 18:51:27 <asciilifeform> ( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik )
cd556bb090afb6fa…63694012…2023-10-11 18:51:31 <PeterL> awt: are these guys set on the anymous thing, or is there a chance that they would see the benefits of a gpg identity?
541162accd556bb0…0dbc5ffe…2023-10-11 18:52:22 <asciilifeform> PeterL: it's no accident that precisely 0 of these folx use pgp, imho
69162b95541162ac…cd556bb0…2023-10-11 18:52:26 <PeterL> I'm not saying I followed his recipe directly, but it was useful for rethinking the way I approached a budget
9da599edba89f877…ba89f877…2023-10-11 18:52:47 <asciilifeform> they want persistent identity & attributable authorship like dog wants beets
4d64066eeb5170a9…916beaf6…2023-10-11 18:52:53 <awt_akris> PeterL: wouldn't be surprised if they were aware of gpg, so probably intentionally not using it for whatever reason.
c5f63a284d64066e…9da599ed…2023-10-11 18:58:05 asciilifeform interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety
c7b22d20c5f63a28…c5f63a28…2023-10-11 18:59:34 <asciilifeform> fwiw will note, folx who establish 2way contact with these, will be playing with active, rather than passive, adversary, receive well-crafted 'cold reading' and tailored pitches, and often enuff succumb to nonsense that they would've laffed off a decade earlier
35d7ce7ac7b22d20…4d64066e…2023-10-11 18:59:35 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: if you consider me desperate and gullible, then this is one of those things. otherwise not.
08f71ac54c3f9fd0…4c3f9fd0…2023-10-11 19:00:58 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: asciilifeform not knows whether awt_akris has compromised immune system re subj, but thought oughta describe the condition & its symptoms, may conceivably prevent some infections.
5265f6a9a715ac64…08f71ac5…2023-10-11 19:02:17 <asciilifeform> ( unlikely tho. the infecters have followers, incl. allegedly 'successful', slick marketing materials, and tantalizing promises. asciilifeform has nuffin but 'it's a trap, run'. not 'sexy' )
d29634ff5265f6a9…5265f6a9…2023-10-11 19:06:27 asciilifeform ftr not 'rich' at all. but otoh lost 0 coin to date to scams, which afaik few 2010s participants can truthfully claim
0d735ec5d29634ff…d29634ff…2023-10-11 19:09:48 <asciilifeform> the 'algo' , such as it is, is very simple, and not needs multi-kB article. 'if loox too good to be tru, it is', 'look for where the fuckers demands yer money', etc. i.e. what yer grandfather prolly taught you.
43358a450d735ec5…0d735ec5…2023-10-11 19:10:46 <asciilifeform> + if sumbody purports to teach sumthing, see whether he shows any signs of having done any such thing himself
0dc4888143358a45…43358a45…2023-10-11 19:11:29 <asciilifeform> ( and whether $thing was a lottery play . look for the corpses of the other 99,999 folx who tried it... )
523307d00dc48881…0dc48881…2023-10-11 19:14:15 <asciilifeform> ... and finally, look for the 0sum game being played, and consider, wai would $player tell you 'good moves' ? do you see 'blackrock', 'goldman', et al posting 'financial advice' for plebes? wainot
c47533f7523307d0…523307d0…2023-10-11 19:14:55 <asciilifeform> ( and when they do , because no longer fear prison -- does it turn out to be a++ advice 10+y after ? )
637fce7cc47533f7…c47533f7…2023-10-11 19:15:29 <asciilifeform> 'free cheese is found in precisely 1 place -- mousetrap'(tm)(r)(ru)
c291aed2637fce7c…637fce7c…2023-10-11 19:17:41 <asciilifeform> there are folx selling 'get rich'! boox, but no one afaik sells 'not go broke' boox, because a) unnecessary, erryone with '>roomtemp iq' already can write such book b) no one will buy it, 'not sexy', not promises 'change life!' and bankman lifestyle
d4917437c291aed2…a715ac64…2023-10-11 20:31:36 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00.
7eaec04dab509098…ab509098…2023-10-11 20:46:14 asciilifeform not bent on somehow preventing the determined from pissing on hv fence, but could not in good conscience say nuffin either
5ca33fd87eaec04d…7eaec04d…2023-10-11 20:47:53 <asciilifeform> iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx...
f97862625ca33fd8…d4917437…2023-10-11 20:49:49 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: your mindset is paralyzing. akin to mp's terror of having kids.
2de832e9ed539616…17839a6e…2023-10-11 21:43:49 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030885 << politician also doesn't himself charge the front line with rifle, but doesn't mean it's a bad idea for him to recommend that those with nothing to lose and no prospects do so
9040fd742de832e9…849915d8…2023-10-11 21:43:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 14:53:31 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost]: ( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik )
f7713b6d9040fd74…2de832e9…2023-10-11 21:45:00 <billymg> had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact
7fae8b69f7713b6d…f7713b6d…2023-10-11 21:48:27 <billymg> re: "making it" -- i don't understand the endless stream of online influencers peddling whatever scheme, i tend to agree with asciilifeform's assessment. to me it seems there are already over 9000 books on the subject available on lulazon or as warez, and reading the top 5 or so ought to cover ~everything worth saying on t
513cc79b7fae8b69…7fae8b69…2023-10-11 21:49:49 <billymg> beyond that any time spent looking for gurus is time not spent working towards actually figuring it out for yourself
3341ae7b67a6e7d9…513cc79b…2023-10-11 21:56:47 <billymg> in that case good, but also seems like common sense
85f87b9b3341ae7b…67a6e7d9…2023-10-11 22:01:11 <awt_akris> Offer above stands. Will do article summarizing > 1 year of "logs" for $300.
c181da5785f87b9b…3341ae7b…2023-10-11 22:05:17 <billymg> awt: of one of these "online republics"? i'll chip in $100
08d662f8c181da57…c181da57…2023-10-11 22:15:17 <billymg> honestly $300 seems like a good deal for a whole year's worth of logs summarized, anyone else chipping in?
83dc8ca308d662f8…aa65cab2…2023-10-12 03:14:13 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030864 << with building one, but I suppose you mean working for one. even in that case, go max out comp at e.g. goog for a 5-10y if that's the goal, and you will indeed make a few mil.
fc32fc5f83dc8ca3…9040fd74…2023-10-12 03:16:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 14:32:32 awt_akris[signpost]: not getting there via a corp either
f9ce429dfc32fc5f…83dc8ca3…2023-10-12 03:14:45 <signpost> I for the record have nfi what's wrong with btc. still works fine.
21519a4ef9ce429d…f9ce429d…2023-10-12 03:15:55 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030869 << dingding.
668ff8ae21519a4e…fc32fc5f…2023-10-12 03:17:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 14:34:30 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel]: the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason
17c2529e668ff8ae…21519a4e…2023-10-12 03:16:09 <signpost> "get rich" isn't a fucking thing. rob someone, or build a business, tertium...
d8e7784c17c2529e…17c2529e…2023-10-12 03:18:47 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030893 << richdadpoardad
1d76b148d8e7784c…668ff8ae…2023-10-12 03:20:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 15:00:04 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety
0a38edc21d76b148…d8e7784c…2023-10-12 03:19:29 signpost did the last startup right after the 08 splat. ended up excellent timing.
c68074938af02f3b…8af02f3b…2023-10-12 03:20:54 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030908 << lol, reminds me of the vid of guy sending himself through a baler
02be5b93c6807493…1d76b148…2023-10-12 03:23:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 16:33:38 awt_akris[PeterL]: asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00.
d4b42dd302be5b93…85f87b9b…2023-10-12 03:21:23 <awt_akris> Not sure where "get rich quick" is sold in anything I've mentioned.
c68766bbd4b42dd3…c6807493…2023-10-12 03:21:29 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030911 << ferfuxsake
ed116050c68766bb…02be5b93…2023-10-12 03:23:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 16:49:52 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx...
47249f48ed116050…c68766bb…2023-10-12 03:22:15 <signpost> awt_akris: dear sir, it's an invitation to loudly hit me over the head with sense if'n you have some to dispense.
e21f20f047249f48…47249f48…2023-10-12 03:22:53 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030913 << I'm on record firmly in favor of people being willing to bet.
375f0f48e21f20f0…ed116050…2023-10-12 03:24:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 16:52:46 awt_akris[PeterL]: make a fuckin' mistake once in a while
276c627f375f0f48…e21f20f0…2023-10-12 03:24:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030916 << yeah, at scale this would've been a positive act of financial violence.
bbaf579d276c627f…375f0f48…2023-10-12 03:26:47 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 17:45:10 billymg: had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact
3462d08cbbaf579d…276c627f…2023-10-12 03:32:20 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030835 << the interest on national debt is ~1T and climbing. they have no choice but to directly monetize debt going forward, which is a positive feedback loop of inflation.
e0eec9593462d08c…bbaf579d…2023-10-12 03:34:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 14:17:00 awt_akris[signpost]: For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that?
32b05e9fe0eec959…3462d08c…2023-10-12 03:32:32 <signpost> I would not buy a damned thing that is USD denominated.
55cb070c32b05e9f…32b05e9f…2023-10-12 03:34:40 <signpost> also looks like we'll end up doing wartime BRRRRRR.
e7fac16455cb070c…d4b42dd3…2023-10-12 04:04:07 <awt_akris> signpost: the more detailed argument was that if you own your home outright and a small percentage of yo%ur net worth invested in treasuries would cover your expenses + 10-20% (forget exact amount) then buy treasuries but also hold significant amounts of Bitcoin for when money printer is inevitably restarted. Was directed
e7527b32e7fac164…e7fac164…2023-10-12 04:04:08 <awt_akris> at a specific audience, perhaps no one in here, incuding myself.
513acfebe7527b32…e7527b32…2023-10-12 04:08:56 <awt_akris> More generally their advice (if can't do the above) is to have more than one source of income, especially if your only source of income is a jerb.
6578ad48513acfeb…513acfeb…2023-10-12 04:11:07 <awt_akris> The problem then is, if you already have a jerb, how do you earn additional income?
1b101bf16578ad48…55cb070c…2023-10-12 04:13:57 <signpost> a lot of these strategies completely ignore inflation
534f6a6b1b101bf1…1b101bf1…2023-10-12 04:14:06 <signpost> would have to read the guy's thing to actually comment
4c945be4aeee81fa…aeee81fa…2023-10-12 04:19:54 <signpost> bitcoin's issued every day, and is roughly holding high $20k atm. this means the issuance is getting bought.
59058c864c945be4…4c945be4…2023-10-12 04:22:49 <signpost> usually people don't panic back into btc until 3-6mos post halving, but the best time in the cycle has been around now.
853fa1ac59058c86…59058c86…2023-10-12 04:23:47 signpost also believes that there will come a violent s-curve upward at some point in the future, as issuance permanently dwindles well below demand.
a0a8bfca853fa1ac…6578ad48…2023-10-12 04:45:48 <awt_akris> This will be the first halving in a high interest rate environment, so will be interesting to see how things playout. Could be subdued, or might coincide with ETF approvals.
4ad9f553beda8cb6…beda8cb6…2023-10-12 13:23:27 <billymg> because of http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030947
f2677d324ad9f553…e0eec959…2023-10-12 13:23:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 23:36:37 signpost: also looks like we'll end up doing wartime BRRRRRR.
2fba6b2bf2677d32…ab61d38f…2023-10-12 13:33:19 <discord_bridge> (awtho) There is no budget limit until 2025. Thus no pressure on the fed to reduce rates until then or until unemployment is up significantly or inflation is down to target.
462e44472fba6b2b…853fa1ac…2023-10-12 17:55:15 <signpost> https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOINT << there will be pressure.
55f5c5ad462e4447…4ad9f553…2023-10-12 18:29:37 <billymg> https://archive.is/MNVw0 "Henry Kissinger on Hamas attacks fallout: Germany let in too many foreigners" kek
360fe8a655f5c5ad…55f5c5ad…2023-10-12 18:38:42 <billymg> "we need to import more orcs, they will boost the economy and enrich our culture" "nooo! not like that!"
88cd8b00360fe8a6…a0a8bfca…2023-10-12 18:40:43 <awt_akris> Notice any more venezuelans down there recently or same amount?
1135a9d788cd8b00…88cd8b00…2023-10-12 18:41:14 <awt_akris> Always see them hanging out by the automerado.
4d9b1a6788cd8b00…360fe8a6…2023-10-12 18:43:47 <billymg> from what i hear they are causing problems in san jose
46acccf035801299…5ca33fd8…2023-10-12 19:12:55 <asciilifeform> 'moar orcs' aint optional , as it happens
ba8ab5a646acccf0…90afb6fa…2023-10-12 19:12:55 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-19#1074632 << the 'thinness' imho is part of the planned rampdown of plebe expectations.
a9be704846acccf0…f2677d32…2023-10-12 19:14:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-03-21 12:28:22 asciilifeform[5]: signpost: moar nuanced : infertility for the 'expecting to live in houses, be ill in hospitals, and retire' class; massively subsidized fertility for the replacement '0 expectations' class
1e03a2e5a9be7048…a9be7048…2023-10-12 19:14:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-20 15:01:15 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: from lizard pov, white who expects to e.g. live in own house, is seen similarly to how 19th c american settler saw indian who expected to freely horse around hunting buffalo. i.e. 'annoying, entitled pest'
1448be261e03a2e5…15d5457a…2023-10-12 19:16:49 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-12#1030948 << if you actually have e.g. 1e7$ on hand, 'how to live off interest' is a 1st grade arithmetic problem, afaik not reqs much in the way of algebra at all
97cbf3e11448be26…1e03a2e5…2023-10-12 19:18:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-12 00:06:07 awt_akris[signpost]: signpost: the more detailed argument was that if you own your home outright and a small percentage of yo%ur net worth invested in treasuries would cover your expenses + 10-20% (forget exact amount) then buy treasuries but also hold significant amounts of Bitcoin for when m
6d2e1b2e97cbf3e1…1448be26…2023-10-12 19:17:36 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-12#1030951 << n-th jerb. ( what asciilifeform does, fwiw )
ae9dec0f6d2e1b2e…97cbf3e1…2023-10-12 19:19:34 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-12 00:13:07 awt_akris[signpost]: The problem then is, if you already have a jerb, how do you earn additional income?
6fc97557ae9dec0f…35801299…2023-10-12 19:18:16 <signpost> thing is, "live off the interest" of argentine bonds
84ab43d76fc97557…6fc97557…2023-10-12 19:18:39 signpost dunno where the sudden trust in USG management of its finances arises.
0ec3a13c84ab43d7…6d2e1b2e…2023-10-12 19:18:59 <asciilifeform> signpost: around here, the usual thing for 1e7$+ folx is to live off rents
54990ed7a5e05ee0…a5e05ee0…2023-10-12 19:19:21 <signpost> yep, having one's own victims is a strategy
47f8245f5ece9df6…0ec3a13c…2023-10-12 19:19:37 <asciilifeform> worx right up until the tenants starve
dbf6827247f8245f…47f8245f…2023-10-12 19:20:43 <asciilifeform> signpost: all arrangements where 'live w/out work' involve some variant of rent-seeking, necessarily
927cd9b2dbf68272…f9c4b983…2023-10-12 19:21:04 <awt_akris> You'd want to account for what you expect inflation to be so income would need to be more than your current expenses. Was accounted for in the +x% and also the own bitcoin part. Also a win if there's a bad recession, for however long that might last.
43141b23927cd9b2…dbf68272…2023-10-12 19:21:10 <asciilifeform> (well, all but 'find buried treasure enuff for 100y' etc)
83c3512743141b23…43141b23…2023-10-12 19:21:46 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: the lulzy thing is that btc was paperized successfully to the point where it no longer worx as any kinda inflation shelter
8b4010e8491ebd22…fb8196ca…2023-10-12 19:23:04 <asciilifeform> it aint as if there's afaik any reason to think he was the 1 and only dumper
d952acc88b4010e8…491ebd22…2023-10-12 19:23:09 <signpost> every halving people start saying bitcoin's dead.
c6efb78fd952acc8…8b4010e8…2023-10-12 19:23:23 <asciilifeform> bankman kaput, but exchrate still stuck moar or less where it's been for coupla yrs
6132e60cd85f6322…c6efb78f…2023-10-12 19:24:34 <asciilifeform> for precisely how long will stay 'becalmed' asciilifeform has nfi, not has enuff psi power; but observes that it reliably lags behind troo-inflation by yrs
09090e4f6132e60c…6132e60c…2023-10-12 21:19:46 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-12#1030987 << incidentally, and prolly not only in asciilifeform's locale, the 'smalltime landlord' folx are in hard times, their biz is being taken over by mega-tower corps
ed14a8ba09090e4f…ae9dec0f…2023-10-12 21:21:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-12 15:21:27 signpost: rent seeking all the way down
1ed960a4ed14a8ba…09090e4f…2023-10-12 21:20:06 <asciilifeform> lotsa vacant units this yr, moar than asciilifeform ever saw in past 20y sitting in this shithole
fe3fea7aa63fd985…1ed960a4…2023-10-12 21:20:54 <asciilifeform> the tower people, interestingly, not charge any less than the smalltimers. but 'new countertops', 'phree exercise room', etc. bait.
84ca253efe3fea7a…fe3fea7a…2023-10-12 21:25:20 <asciilifeform> the rather obv. 'seekrit' is that lizards see 'live off interest from 1e7$' (or whatever amt hypothetically within reach of clever plebe) as a bug and patch it
cfdd28c084ca253e…ba8ab5a6…2023-10-12 21:25:20 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-03-15 asciilifeform: ... from reich pov, plebes having savings is a bug, similarly to resistive losses in electric cable. 'pieces of yacht that got diverted'
16a329ff67b9b628…cfdd28c0…2023-10-12 21:27:48 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2017-06-08 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
b3b8f4f44e7c86e3…16a329ff…2023-10-12 21:30:55 <dulapbot> (trilema) 2015-03-05 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
d57e98c9b3b8f4f4…dd93a37f…2023-10-12 22:23:05 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-12#1030977 << right, fully aware of actual motivation behind 'flood white nations with orcs'
ef5edbc1d57e98c9…ed14a8ba…2023-10-12 22:23:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-12 15:15:08 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: i.e. forced mistake.
1c8e9aa6ef5edbc1…a63fd985…2023-10-12 22:23:32 <awt_akris> I don't think there have every been very many white people, relatively speaking - except maybe in 1800s. Will always be outnumbered everywhere.
62f3a3791c8e9aa6…d57e98c9…2023-10-12 22:25:51 <billymg> handcranked scoopbot: http://billymg.com/2023/10/civilizational-immunity-to-globalism/ -- and thanks for the rec asciilifeform
e3dd789362f3a379…62f3a379…2023-10-12 22:28:14 <billymg> awt: perhaps "liberal nations" would have been a better label
4db5bb03e3dd7893…e3dd7893…2023-10-12 22:32:59 <billymg> in the sense of, can work hard -> keep what you earn (or at least most of it) -> eventually not work (so much) or your children not work (so much) vs. slavery
6ca04ba34db5bb03…ef5edbc1…2023-10-12 22:33:08 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-11-17 asciilifeform: seems like current (i.e. post- Great Theft) situation is a return to the ancient norm, as intended by the lizards, where 'you work a day, and what do you get? anuther day older and deeper in debt'(tm)(r)
41ff2fc76ca04ba3…b3b8f4f4…2023-10-12 22:31:15 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-07-13 asciilifeform: mats: it doesn't seem like we disagree re 'what' is happening. but possibly disagree in pov. per asciilifeform , what it all is -- is a massive theft.
884a631d41ff2fc7…e30fa308…2023-10-13 04:14:03 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-13#1115442 << was gonna be my weekend until ol' mates diff explodes this mornin'
2dec8223884a631d…41ff2fc7…2023-10-13 04:13:25 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-10-13 Vex: not a book, but 223, cans and a fire.
e04eae3a3c7fe378…3c7fe378…2023-10-13 04:16:34 <crtdaydreams> nah nah, if anyones full of air here it's me
38df225ce04eae3a…e04eae3a…2023-10-13 04:22:33 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-12#1115436 << industrial ag is built on debt these days
995fe2bd38df225c…2dec8223…2023-10-13 04:21:54 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-10-12 Vex: Well mangaed farmland on the otherhand oughtta be for inflation resistant.
b45237fb995fe2bd…38df225c…2023-10-13 04:36:29 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-12#1115433 << ever feel like it's a one-way street?
1889ba2ab45237fb…995fe2bd…2023-10-13 04:35:51 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-10-12 Vex: i saw a financial advisor long ago. young guy in a shit office. i'd reckon he's doing okay now; he did mor listening than talking
6a5efd5e579d0ab7…1c8e9aa6…2023-10-13 14:45:01 <awt_akris> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-13#1115443 << lol. damn.
dac9f0616a5efd5e…1889ba2a…2023-10-13 14:45:04 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2023-10-13 Vex: het awt if signpost says he feels another co coming on, mebbe ask if there's anthing you can do
22e03f64dac9f061…6a5efd5e…2023-10-13 15:41:13 <awt_akris> No disrespect to signpost. He knows I'm available for that already. To be clear, doing fine. Everything's fine. Have been known to start my own companies in the past, albeit the more socially acceptable cool (at the time) SV types.
79f6f59022e03f64…d85f6322…2023-10-13 16:11:08 <signpost> I think we're all trying to find a lifeboat of some sort atm, regardless of personal financial security as represented in the company store database of fiat.
9e800f3579f6f590…79f6f590…2023-10-13 16:11:37 signpost currently deciding between off-grid ranch and moving straight atop one of the bullseyes like asciilifeform
2649ad8a9e800f35…9e800f35…2023-10-13 16:12:00 <signpost> as far as fartups go, I'm always hacking on things, but I have no obvious win bets to share.
fd1708602649ad8a…2649ad8a…2023-10-13 16:12:27 <signpost> and I respect awt_akris' ability to handle himself
57876065fd170860…4e7c86e3…2023-10-13 16:37:08 asciilifeform did the 'companies' thing befoar, lost shirt repeatedly, satisfied that ~impossible for it to end well w/out some kinda meatwot 'link to money pipeline' i.e. political favour
140a47af57876065…22e03f64…2023-10-13 16:37:57 <awt_akris> ^ was friend's strategy. worked out well. "find rich friends and they'll just give you money"
bdceffdf140a47af…57876065…2023-10-13 16:39:41 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: last time asciilifeform played that roulette, found that even dough aint enuff (unless i suppose it's a bankmanesque amt of dough) , still gotta either sell sumthing or pawn it off to sucker upstream, befoar dough runs out
605e00bcbdceffdf…140a47af…2023-10-13 16:40:18 <awt_akris> Other formulas such as "go to most expensive gym, cigar lounge, hangout"
152ad5ac605e00bc…bdceffdf…2023-10-13 16:40:44 <asciilifeform> hence, apropos http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030940 , asciilifeform would readily bet (while still has what) but very much depending on the odds.
d590bf91152ad5ac…6ca04ba3…2023-10-13 16:42:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 23:24:52 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030913 << I'm on record firmly in favor of people being willing to bet.
b6a3b5dcd590bf91…152ad5ac…2023-10-13 16:41:53 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: 'round here even reasonably well-off plebes have in-house gym. wai would moneybag go to a public one
6bcc554ad590bf91…605e00bc…2023-10-13 16:42:58 <awt_akris> Dunno but people pay upwards of $300/mo for gym. Filters out most.
8e3684216bcc554a…b6a3b5dc…2023-10-13 16:44:00 <asciilifeform> filters out the hobos & unemployed, perhaps, lol
4a9437918e368421…8e368421…2023-10-13 16:46:13 <asciilifeform> at any rate asciilifeform's comment wasn't re 'what to eat while you bake $product', for this not needs rockefeller. but the 'pawn it off part' does.
9c8743004a943791…6bcc554a…2023-10-13 16:48:40 <awt_akris> Indeed, friend failed to sell the cash cow enterprise, but fortunately plowed enough into BTC and ended up with a kind of maintenance stipend to boot.
bdda246a9c874300…fd170860…2023-10-13 16:55:32 <signpost> I suppose I’m a lucky, handsome sociopath, but I had no funding or connections.
13e32edae4e1f10e…bdda246a…2023-10-13 16:56:59 <signpost> The restaurant industry had just had a mega forest fire in 08 as everything went splat, and most of my payments clients started their restaurant after that, were willing to try us out.
2dd9361413e32eda…13e32eda…2023-10-13 16:57:20 <signpost> and sure, being in fiat payments means I bolted myself firmly to the brrrr
890c10680c64e393…0c64e393…2023-10-13 17:01:59 <signpost> we didn’t scam anybody though, just took the smallest percentage txn fee in our market, and charged that as an explicit line item at checkout to their customers. our “differentiator” was simply a lack of price gouging, as no VCs to please
ad5e10e6890c1068…890c1068…2023-10-13 17:02:25 <signpost> survivorship bias, but when scammers abound, honesty can work.
8e9fa0a9ad5e10e6…e4e1f10e…2023-10-13 17:49:10 <awt_akris> Re: Akris - had an instance running for perhaps months - yesterday it suddenly crashed. Couldn't find the stack trace. If anyone sees the same let me know.
ffcc019508201746…4db5bb03…2023-10-14 22:31:45 <billymg> been hearing reports of woke parents of kids in private schools here (i.e. mostly expat kids) getting laughed out of meetings with teachers when complaining about the schools not being woke enough
9952d5e8ffcc0195…ffcc0195…2023-10-14 22:32:43 <billymg> and posts in facebook groups replying to said complaints with e.g. "maybe you should move back to the US/canada, that's not what we're about here"
b472e1569952d5e8…9952d5e8…2023-10-14 22:33:41 billymg gets these second hand, doesn't have a faceberg account
139cc269b472e156…b5c722a8…2023-10-14 23:47:51 <awt_akris> Encouraging yet discouraging at the same time
65ea5f33139cc269…ad5e10e6…2023-10-15 02:58:52 <signpost> ours had to be the gayest communism of all.
6739b80965ea5f33…579d0ab7…2023-10-20 01:27:28 <crtdaydreams> in other news, the guy that built semi fab in mum garage is actually making a commercial fab https://atomicsemi.com/
fcd6e7e26739b809…ddbd7bb9…2023-10-20 14:39:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-19#1031100 << link seems to contain a few photos and little else. gear in the photos aint in the 'garage' cost category at all tho
a386dbe1fcd6e7e2…28a04e30…2023-10-20 14:41:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-19 21:28:28 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: in other news, the guy that built semi fab in mum garage is actually making a commercial fab https://atomicsemi.com/
4556b0a961dd1977…cc38df4b…2023-10-16 13:44:25 <billymg> this meme line was just crossed (briefly), for the first time since late november '21
28a04e304556b0a9…d590bf91…2023-10-16 13:44:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-08 12:38:23 billymg: according to my meme lines, resistance which was first bumped into in early april 2021 currently sits at ~31,600
62e6fa327c2a6a2d…de25235b…2023-10-16 15:37:18 <billymg> imo 'news' is completely irrelevant to the price movements of btc, though usually printed alongside pumps/dumps to offer a phony explanation
ebf4b85062e6fa32…62e6fa32…2023-10-16 15:37:58 <billymg> i believe etf approval is coming eventually because of the trend in this chart
21ee32dbaec1b70e…6fe06e56…2023-10-23 15:42:36 <billymg> any bets on when china makes its move and takes taiwan? looks like usg.mil has its hands full at the moment
bf84e6d96cc73fdc…6cc73fdc…2023-10-16 18:50:59 <asciilifeform> decimal pt not even threatened to move right since fuck knows when
5442f80f21ee32db…21ee32db…2023-10-23 15:53:02 <billymg> potential shift to the right in sv https://a16z.com/the-techno-optimist-manifesto/
dd8a85ae5442f80f…f0f95daf…2023-10-23 16:05:32 <asciilifeform> 'The socialist USSR was far worse for the natural environment than the capitalist US. Google the Aral Sea' << lulzy oblig stab at sovok in there. esp. considering the theme of the piece
4b5c38ecdd8a85ae…dd8a85ae…2023-10-23 16:06:34 <asciilifeform> aral was (or so the period propaganda, to pitch the supposed effectiveness of the builds would have you think) dried on account of rivers diverted to terraform 'dune'-style desert shitholes
1f27b1674b5c38ec…4b5c38ec…2023-10-23 16:08:55 <asciilifeform> 'We believe our planet is dramatically underpopulated... can quite easily expand to 50 billion people or more' << aaand we get to the cockroach-paste eatin' at last
5cb0ed9c07f99ccc…8d4ad9c9…2023-10-20 00:19:45 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: the '1e7 watt' sort, or the 'antminer in basement rack' sort ?
50ca3c57831e7a92…5cb0ed9c…2023-10-20 00:23:54 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: didja pitch him re butchering the segshit pig ?
f359f3d83ed89cba…dac9f061…2023-10-20 00:24:29 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-01-26 asciilifeform: hence wai asciilifeform quite convinced that segshitism would catch fire satisfyingly if the right 'thermite' could be found, i.e. mine a pile of blox where segshitolade is claimed.
9fea12cdfa3898cb…fa3898cb…2023-10-20 00:44:05 <asciilifeform> miner not necessarily needs 'over9000' hash/s to set off the nuke.
e346372364bbbe3c…64bbbe3c…2023-10-24 00:20:27 <billymg> does anyone have an explanation for why meme lines are respected? see: 1w 3d 2h 30m
ddbd7bb99fea12cd…9fea12cd…2023-10-20 00:44:31 <asciilifeform> scoring coupla consecutive magick blocks may well be enuff.
812e218de3463723…58284d52…2023-10-24 00:19:53 <signpost> no idea, but the thing appears to be respecting the shit out of difficulty.
9e6e9b8da1bdbf66…812e218d…2023-10-24 16:26:39 <signpost> if blackrock filling the tank on the ETF is worth +25% on exchange rate, the rest of the year should be fun.
7d52eab286bfa6c6…532c2811…2023-10-25 14:13:45 <shinohai> Hilarious ref to asciilifeform 's loperos in a article about GNOME: https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/24/holly_million_gnome/
31b17b451b44405b…1b44405b…2023-10-25 21:45:43 <signpost> this is going to be a wild next year or so.
a9d2473031b17b45…40c3ff7a…2023-10-26 21:42:15 <awt_akris> Very cool to see btc hanging on while stocks dump.
7cee4aac53276ca9…c3b34033…2023-10-27 15:39:15 <unpx> This looks nice https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~danama/courses/codes/
c4561935fd2ef480…6ce707e5…2023-11-01 15:11:38 <signpost> how are other folks' apocalypse plans going?
7279de31c4561935…59e2ed20…2023-11-01 15:31:58 <jonsykkel> nucular proof killdozer soon welded up and redy
b0e178597279de31…a9d24730…2023-11-01 15:52:18 <awt_akris> I need to push back the apocalypse by about 4 years
7e4dcb976c9033ca…6c9033ca…2023-11-02 15:15:01 <billymg> the meme line remains a difficult point of resistance for our orange coin
9708f9e67e4dcb97…89c4e4f0…2023-11-02 15:13:54 <signpost> tell it to fall back down to that other one until I sell this pressed-shitboard house
1c9ca1319708f9e6…7e4dcb97…2023-11-02 15:19:44 <billymg> signpost: a proper retest of the lower line, which served as resistance for over three years, seems very likely
87926c571c9ca131…1c9ca131…2023-11-02 15:20:18 <billymg> a move like that might be what precedes the real bull run
60f7be2cd968a282…d968a282…2023-11-02 15:22:37 <signpost> but even if it's 40k, I'm aping whatever comes out of this house in.
d8a9aeac60f7be2c…87926c57…2023-11-02 15:31:01 <billymg> neat that you're selling your housecoin, does that mean you've decided on the next location?
7f829b28d8a9aeac…60f7be2c…2023-11-02 15:33:25 <signpost> going to go rent near family in houston while this real estate apocalypse and btc halving passes, then NH.
99d6c7b07de96ff4…7de96ff4…2023-11-02 15:34:17 <signpost> being close to IAH appeals while we see just how much churn we're in for.
867fded499d6c7b0…d8a9aeac…2023-11-02 15:37:29 <billymg> signpost: so real estate apocalypse seems like it'll happen?
0c99e2a4867fded4…867fded4…2023-11-02 15:37:59 billymg would love to see selfish boomers' retirement funds wrecked
43559c6d0c99e2a4…99d6c7b0…2023-11-02 15:35:51 <signpost> a lot of airbnb supply is ripping loose, among other things.
c7db307529382fd2…43559c6d…2023-11-02 15:37:22 <signpost> [hear][http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-07-18#1686516] [hear][http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2017-07-18#1686518]
39c72740c7db3075…a386dbe1…2023-11-02 15:39:24 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-07-18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686438 <<< yes, because you're applying the pretense of statics to a dynamic situation. trinque 's metaphore is very much factual : we were paradopped on hot coals, by the FAULT, inexcusable, and indelible, of our parents. they should have taken care t
2d681aec39c72740…39c72740…2023-11-02 15:39:24 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-07-18 mircea_popescu: ly duty can never be forgiven.
32a49f8239c72740…a5a905da…2023-11-02 15:43:07 <billymg> re: NH going blue, i was in west virginia last month (also dc and nyc) during a US visit. my sister bought a place in a blue zone in WV, and it's very much true that these people have a sort of weird fetish for colonizing red states and turning them tranny
a5a905da2d681aec…29382fd2…2023-11-02 15:39:41 <billymg> oh, sorry, IAH the airport, and being close it appeals to you
15c137ab32a49f82…b921318a…2023-11-02 15:42:15 <signpost> very suspicious it's just endocrine disruption in the kids.
b921318aa5a905da…c7db3075…2023-11-02 15:38:17 <signpost> yep, good to have an international airport nearby
3cdeec7015c137ab…32a49f82…2023-11-02 15:46:22 <billymg> in that case i was just using it as shorthand to mean whatever current flavor of communist degeneracy
80ce18ca3cdeec70…3cdeec70…2023-11-02 15:47:35 <billymg> just that they seem to get off on imposing their bs on red states
d545d74a80ce18ca…15c137ab…2023-11-02 15:45:31 <signpost> yeah, I mean that the drift towards this gayest-communism is some kind of synergy between ideology and ruined bodies.
8520d798407e6810…407e6810…2023-11-02 15:48:30 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/bitcoin-exponential-gold-fidelity-director-global-macro << such good porn.
cfbb2b868520d798…8520d798…2023-11-02 15:49:13 <signpost> re: where to live, when I was touring NH houses, there's a lot of horrid pressed shitboard for ~$1M
4faa5845cfbb2b86…cfbb2b86…2023-11-02 15:49:36 <signpost> I'm going to have to remodel something with good old bones.
47e98d544faa5845…4faa5845…2023-11-02 15:50:17 signpost terraformed the shit out of the Austin house; some cali-boy and his wife and wife's boyfriend will be very pleased.
21ac2e110317f88a…0317f88a…2023-11-02 15:53:27 <billymg> all my structures here are cinder block and poured concrete
1eafef2b0b030e46…0b030e46…2023-11-02 15:52:33 <signpost> hoping to find something in new england that's rather old, so it's held up to many winters.
9def50861eafef2b…1eafef2b…2023-11-02 15:53:22 <signpost> an old thing can be ripped clean and sealed up, but one can't fix how poorly structures are framed anymore.
921b14299def5086…3159cbad…2023-11-02 15:55:39 <billymg> i'm not really sure why they mostly build this way. wood is no go because of termites, and concrete might have been cheaper/easier than metal framing with drywall back in the day
2263e1f0921b1429…921b1429…2023-11-02 15:55:59 <billymg> ah, also water from the rains, that's no good for metal, forgot about that one
46d737df2263e1f0…2263e1f0…2023-11-02 16:01:05 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-02#1031181 << it's always fun seeing these long term log charts being posted by the likes of fidelity/bloomberg/goldman
d7d2c31546d737df…2d681aec…2023-11-02 16:00:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-02 11:50:32 signpost: https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/bitcoin-exponential-gold-fidelity-director-global-macro << such good porn.
988bb425d7d2c315…9def5086…2023-11-02 16:00:09 <signpost> satan's irony would be the banks stepping out of fiat into bitcoin while the plebs all burn.
cf95b98dd7d2c315…46d737df…2023-11-02 16:01:26 <billymg> the kind that were shared on tardstalk forums a decade ago
b87ebe73cf95b98d…1b6cfd2c…2023-11-02 16:31:34 <awt_akris> Really wish I were down in CR rn. I forgot how bad winter sucks.
b389ce6afe82f565…fd7c68ee…2023-11-02 16:40:10 <awt_akris> Thinking about going to Mexico for thanksgiving.
c3eb53b4e4a38a17…0412b13c…2023-11-09 18:33:14 <signpost> somebody's pest station was stuck, looks like
0412b13c8086f99c…988bb425…2023-11-09 18:32:37 <signpost> this bitcoin price bump brought to you by the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and the letters Q and E.
c889f3182658dfae…cc160eda…2023-11-10 17:38:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-09#1031224 << roastin' in commercial hell
7d6d6651c889f318…c889f318…2023-11-10 17:50:34 <asciilifeform> what've you been up to, signpost et al ?
64df67044099a30e…5392c983…2023-11-11 03:31:52 <signpost> just been farting around with webcrapware I've been building.
41e7fa8264df6704…6739b809…2023-11-11 06:43:15 <crtdaydreams> just found out John B. Goodenough died in July
48a880573abf1d6b…8f550532…2023-11-11 20:33:54 <signpost> can either turn to ash in approx one sneeze, or grab a 1-way ticket elsewhere.
0bca3ba341e7fa82…41e7fa82…2023-11-11 06:43:59 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: good to see you're still alive under the pile
6a8f0d9c48a88057…48a88057…2023-11-11 20:34:31 <signpost> might still do the NH thing, but mp's admonition that "prepping" is larp unless you've got the gang to defend the hoard.
fd3c70ce0bca3ba3…0bca3ba3…2023-11-11 08:20:20 <crtdaydreams> everyone pretty much double down on doomsday prepping? what's the story?
8f550532fd3c70ce…64df6704…2023-11-11 20:33:08 <signpost> tbh I'm considering just moving more properly atop a bullseye with a good airport.
a24992ae1119f96f…4099a30e…2023-11-13 16:01:54 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-11#1031234 << asciilifeform not recalls anyone actually mentioning building fuhrerbunker etc. so nfi where one'd get this notion
728d87d443985034…43985034…2023-11-13 16:04:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-11#1031238 << asciilifeform not tuned into the subculture in realtime, but in the past formed impression that aficionados are more interested in 'a beautiful death' than in 'defend hoard'
bd80e4c9728d87d4…728d87d4…2023-11-13 16:09:22 asciilifeform is of the pov that even (and especially) the folx who finally bought the coveted plane ticket 'out' are deluding themselves, for so long as they're financially embedded in the reich, which almost always -- are
3fa8da17bd80e4c9…70cadc2b…2023-11-13 17:03:14 <billymg> hrm, weird, i'm seeing the echos in the logs but not here on my station
0d656e553fa8da17…3fa8da17…2023-11-13 17:03:53 <billymg> the bot and its station hasn't been restarted in who knows how long, will give it a kick later today
94c4828d86976e27…1119f96f…2023-11-13 17:11:06 <signpost> the last few bot messages that got stuck were unstuck by me speaking, for w/e reason
b689668294c4828d…94c4828d…2023-11-13 17:11:25 <signpost> (at least for me. so far haven't seen 'em this time)
c4bedbacb6896682…fd3c70ce…2023-11-13 22:52:55 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-13#1031768 << Dood that invented lithium ion batteries and part of the 3 that invented RAM
82e24bd1c4bedbac…c4bedbac…2023-11-13 22:58:03 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-13#1031747 << I'm not sure where you got the notion that "doomsday prepping" exclusively referred to a "fuhrerbunker" lol, the desciption did earn a chuckle though
aca9aa6282e24bd1…82e24bd1…2023-11-13 22:58:52 <crtdaydreams> It was a continuation of [apocalypse thread][http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-01#1031653]
d5382a5998629f01…d7d2c315…2023-11-13 21:31:21 <bitbot> billymg: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
7d0fa877aca9aa62…aca9aa62…2023-11-13 23:02:39 <crtdaydreams> nvm, re-reading it a couple times I certainly see the association between prepper and "fuhrerbunker"
52afcdb67d0fa877…7d0fa877…2023-11-13 23:07:07 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-11#1031742 << had a similar thought, but with the oz housing situation one would be lucky to rent even remotely near the crater
5bcd451e52afcdb6…52afcdb6…2023-11-13 23:12:06 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-11#1031745 << is there a trilema article on subj?
10c2498c5bcd451e…5bcd451e…2023-11-13 23:35:24 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-13#1031771 << this is misleading, apologies. this was his achievement re: ram
9b2094cf10c2498c…10c2498c…2023-11-13 23:37:18 <crtdaydreams> From my understanding this was the building block for Magnetic Core Memory
ee32bbbd09d4bdc3…d5382a59…2023-11-13 21:32:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-13 11:05:00 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel|billymg]: wonders where the bot echoes went
9b575db19b2094cf…9b2094cf…2023-11-14 06:51:22 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-29#1115522 << jeezus vex, heard of that happening before
5bb343a89b575db1…9b575db1…2023-11-14 06:53:37 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-10-27#1115507 << neh brought wes right before it went up, not funded diddly squat
77e8e21c54a9d8c1…ee32bbbd…2023-11-13 21:39:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-13 11:05:00 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel|billymg]: wonders where the bot echoes went
a50c85975bb343a8…b6896682…2023-11-14 21:38:52 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-13#1031270 << y'all are well prepared for the post-nuclear future by your culture's crowning contribution to gay leather porn, Mad Max.
38771a2ea50c8597…d4925180…2023-11-14 21:40:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-13 18:07:28 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-11#1031742 << had a similar thought, but with the oz housing situation one would be lucky to rent even remotely near the crater
276b6fa88eaa9110…8eaa9110…2023-11-13 21:41:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-11#1031232 << who..?
ee78be9b38771a2e…a50c8597…2023-11-14 21:42:36 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-13#1031271 << iirc threads in logs, but I didn't find any
d4925180276b6fa8…77e8e21c…2023-11-13 21:43:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-11 01:43:40 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: just found out John B. Goodenough died in July
f68fb62cee78be9b…38771a2e…2023-11-14 21:44:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-13 18:12:27 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-11-11#1031745 << is there a trilema article on subj?
918d353430022f12…d80ef1ef…2023-11-15 19:59:36 <asciilifeform> billymg: maybe i'm missing sumthing but it seems to be elementarily possible to always draw such a line, no matter what the price liquishit loox like at a given time
7690f041bfbc113d…30022f12…2023-11-15 20:27:58 <billymg> asciilifeform: it's interesting to me because i drew the line back in june. here's the same line on a longer time scale
d52044ec7690f041…7690f041…2023-11-15 20:28:54 <billymg> and you can see the dramatic dump in august occurred right at the same line too
84ec8741d52044ec…d52044ec…2023-11-15 20:29:59 <billymg> and the more recent october pump went right up to that line again then stopped, and the current movement we're seeing even when zoomed in seems to be dancing around that line
d3a63d0a84ec8741…84ec8741…2023-11-15 20:33:03 <billymg> and i could've drawn it earlier, back in march, after seen the bounce from the dump to 19.5k. the two points that define the line are from jan and march
5315dadb7b3af397…7b3af397…2023-11-15 20:35:41 <billymg> best theory is it's some sort of collective psychology phenomenon. everyone's drawing the same lines so they program their trading bots to place bets at the same points
ccc0c4a35315dadb…bfbc113d…2023-11-15 20:51:40 <asciilifeform> there seem to be 3 lines in the last pic ?
84cbb5dd37745485…ee78be9b…2023-11-15 20:52:54 <signpost> problem is there's a bunch of meme lines you didn't draw, and how do I know to draw yours and not e.g. one at $25k, $18k, etc
c9285a9884cbb5dd…37745485…2023-11-15 20:53:16 <asciilifeform> problem is that you can draw a 'pithy' line over just about anyffin
a20b4f367eefe4ee…7eefe4ee…2023-11-15 20:54:23 <asciilifeform> 'anyone can predict, so long as it's the past, rather than future, that he wants to predict' or how did it go
8c718f27a20b4f36…84cbb5dd…2023-11-15 20:54:24 <signpost> there is probably a smarter analysis to be had with e.g. volume data in hand.
7b1511d48c718f27…a20b4f36…2023-11-15 20:55:35 <asciilifeform> the folx who operate the heat engine aint particularly eager to do so in a way that randos can usefully predict.
cc48340a7b1511d4…f68fb62c…2023-11-15 20:57:43 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
fbbcd257cc48340a…7b1511d4…2023-11-15 20:56:24 <asciilifeform> even if the ease of painting 'line' over the engine compression diagram in retrospect very deceptively suggests the contrary.
e9d2749cfbbcd257…fbbcd257…2023-11-15 21:03:39 <asciilifeform> lizard objective is quite transparently to turn btc into au, i.e. where almost all of it is bottled up in handful of reich warehouses, and people can 'trade' all they like but exclusively with paper simulacrum which is worth what they say it's worth
5608768ce9d2749c…e9d2749c…2023-11-15 21:04:04 <asciilifeform> (and aint any kinda inflation shelter on any reasonable time scale)
7b71694d5608768c…5315dadb…2023-11-15 21:06:37 billymg notes he never claimed the lines are useful for trading, or anything really
b8bfe7457b71694d…5608768c…2023-11-15 21:04:37 <asciilifeform> billymg: if the lines represent actual pattern, they are useful for trading. and the converse.
19311e3e4d99da02…7b71694d…2023-11-15 21:08:46 <billymg> the only actual pattern i see is the decade+ chart, which is pretty much "up only"
69993618953e6720…8c718f27…2023-11-15 21:07:06 <signpost> thing's been proportional to hash rate forever
e265e3721df6302b…953e6720…2023-11-15 21:10:18 <billymg> asciilifeform: they might succeed in turning it into ticker:GLD but also possible they don't this time. a lot more people are wise to their games these days
806ffdcfe265e372…1df6302b…2023-11-15 21:09:16 <signpost> inventory *can* be reported on programmatically which is much better than the gold situation.
d00ca1e7806ffdcf…e265e372…2023-11-15 21:16:23 <billymg> yup, can look at outstanding shares of the different bitcoin ETFs (if their are multiple), compare to other known large hodl addresses (those of exchanges for example). "hey waitaminute, how come these total to 83MM btc??"
dd339391ea941eee…ea941eee…2023-11-15 21:18:48 <billymg> GLD was also the product of an era where people still trusted institutions. now, post covid, biden, ukraine, etc... who's left that does?
94e4e49fdd339391…4d99da02…2023-11-15 23:33:42 <asciilifeform> billymg: the gox users, lol, evidently
686c244e94e4e49f…94e4e49f…2023-11-15 23:34:39 asciilifeform has nfi who they are, but they appear to exist, and in such #s as to allow the 'farmers' herdin' said cattle to survive
094f46d4686c244e…686c244e…2023-11-16 04:40:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-15#1031315 << the obv boojum is that the 'observable inventory' at no point has any clear connection to what's being traded.
99fe5391094f46d4…cc48340a…2023-11-16 04:43:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-15 16:16:04 billymg: yup, can look at outstanding shares of the different bitcoin ETFs (if their are multiple), compare to other known large hodl addresses (those of exchanges for example). "hey waitaminute, how come these total to 83MM btc??"
dd60621099fe5391…094f46d4…2023-11-16 04:41:43 <asciilifeform> observe that planet3's inventory of au is similarly 'observable' (notionally all of it would fit in a 100m cube)
39b250b708fa58af…42ee2f62…2023-11-17 17:57:40 <signpost> it's a relief tbh. I'm gonna go buy some bug protein and get a covid booster.
b2ca629393a0f906…93a0f906…2023-11-18 00:09:00 <asciilifeform> not as elaborately trolly as asciilifeform's or mp's opensores licenses, but short&sweet...
7624ea8cb2ca6293…4bfbfa00…2023-11-18 00:20:02 <crtdaydreams> if not moreso, because it actually can be defended in court as there's actually an institutional backing for e.g. the MIT and GPL licenses. to invalidate the addition of the plusnigger clause would invalidate the entire license lmao
56fd88627624ea8c…7624ea8c…2023-11-18 00:21:23 <crtdaydreams> any kind of rebuttal would result in the implosion of said institutions
50ddd8c956fd8862…56fd8862…2023-11-18 00:24:14 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: I still prefer your 'fuckyou' license
cdfcba9c50ddd8c9…50ddd8c9…2023-11-18 00:28:45 <crtdaydreams> I used 'actually' wayyy too many times in that first message, eugh!
5c169de1cdfcba9c…b2ca6293…2023-11-18 03:10:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-17#1031336 << not seeing the logic there
e7b32aba5c169de1…99fe5391…2023-11-18 03:12:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-17 19:20:18 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: if not moreso, because it actually can be defended in court as there's actually an institutional backing for e.g. the MIT and GPL licenses. to invalidate the addition of the plusnigger clause would invalidate the entire license lmao
efcd96ab7786c5a5…f518cce2…2023-11-21 01:17:25 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Mexico City is Californian heaven.
e70e1665001557ac…efcd96ab…2023-11-21 04:38:41 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Maybe in some areas. Roma, Condesa, and Polanco - panaderías, pastelerías, cafés, gelato, everywhere. Even decent kbbq.
3033946ae70e1665…e70e1665…2023-11-21 04:43:10 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Outside the center it seems like vast agglomerations of pueblos built out of concrete instead of mud.
4347a6b73033946a…9b0317c9…2023-11-21 17:56:45 <billymg> https://www.zerohedge.com/crypto/us-settles-worlds-largest-crypto-exchange-binance-cz-step-down-pay-43-billion-fine
f81facd5af840bd5…7786c5a5…2023-11-21 18:17:37 <signpost> billymg: just me, or is USG actively stamping out shitcoiners
83f5d7c4f81facd5…f81facd5…2023-11-21 18:17:55 <signpost> while the bigs line up to accumulate all the real btc.
b191687e83f5d7c4…91866c3a…2023-11-21 18:22:23 <billymg> signpost: that would be the white-pilled interpretation, black-pilled would be http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-15#1031304
11edf877b191687e…e7b32aba…2023-11-21 18:22:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-15 16:05:48 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: lizard objective is quite transparently to turn btc into au, i.e. where almost all of it is bottled up in handful of reich warehouses, and people can 'trade' all they like but exclusively with paper simulacrum which is worth what they say it's worth
5020ad9e11edf877…83f5d7c4…2023-11-21 18:20:42 <signpost> I think that view understates the degree to which USG mismanagement can harm lizards too.
b13358935020ad9e…b191687e…2023-11-21 18:23:32 <billymg> despite their shitcoinery binance at least seemed a net positive in that it was the last exchange operating outside of reich control
9b95426ab1335893…5020ad9e…2023-11-21 18:21:33 <signpost> I'm 100% fine with shitcoinery existing as a fool-and-his-money separator.
af60191a669973b1…9b95426a…2023-11-21 18:22:31 <signpost> seems to me both AU and now BTC will rise when lizards choose.
92952ec9af60191a…af60191a…2023-11-21 18:22:40 <signpost> and this is just a convoluted statement of "power is power"
f34b57d892952ec9…92952ec9…2023-11-21 18:23:38 <signpost> one has to marvel at bankerism in this regard. nobody escapes being a part of the boot, or the gunk beneath.
79ce52c3f34b57d8…f34b57d8…2023-11-21 18:24:37 signpost even read an entertaining hypothesis recently that BTC is meant to *shore up* dollarism by crushing out weaker fiats
b99f576979ce52c3…669973b1…2023-11-21 18:27:26 <billymg> i saw binance as being a CCP proxy as much as FTX was for USG. the FTX sinking looked like a blow to usg
c94c612bb99f5769…11edf877…2023-11-21 18:27:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-15 14:01:50 signpost: entirely possible CZ just executed successful hybrid warfare on behalf of chicoms.
f355d446c94c612b…79ce52c3…2023-11-21 18:25:22 <signpost> could've been, yep. FTX was certainly funneling money to the right people.
c47d26aac94c612b…f355d446…2023-11-21 18:27:34 <signpost> so long as they manage to keep people from paying each other in BTC directly there is no threat whatsoever to dollarism
e1f6e361c94c612b…b99f5769…2023-11-21 18:27:54 <billymg> so now this binance coup looks like a USG victory
3c6fbe3dc47d26aa…001557ac…2023-11-21 18:32:08 <asciilifeform> the most plausible thing is that subj was a 'misfiring piston' in the heat engine and nao will be under 'proper' management
0b0ba1bd3c6fbe3d…c94c612b…2023-11-21 18:34:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-15 15:57:43 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: the folx who operate the heat engine aint particularly eager to do so in a way that randos can usefully predict.
a44b96320b0ba1bd…e1f6e361…2023-11-21 18:47:25 <billymg> asciilifeform: right, but i guess that means east and west reich are cooperating in their control of the 'heat engine'
228036d5a44b9632…a44b9632…2023-11-21 18:47:48 billymg had hoped their might be some balance of power, rather than the two reichs colluding
e7be4ad5684a0e62…3c6fbe3d…2023-11-21 18:45:36 asciilifeform not convinced that the fiatola oligarchy network ~has~ an 'east' and 'west' in the contemplated sense
d208d856e7be4ad5…684a0e62…2023-11-21 18:46:22 <signpost> certainly sitting in UAE does not put one outside the western monetary empire
bb0663d399e6837d…e7be4ad5…2023-11-21 19:28:33 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-11-21#1031361 << rright but it does appear to have 'breathed up the oxygen' that anyffin else could breathe
29a42c3cbb0663d3…0b0ba1bd…2023-11-21 19:30:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-21 13:23:43 signpost: I'm 100% fine with shitcoinery existing as a fool-and-his-money separator.
b27431dad97cfc7a…5cb9ab6c…2023-11-23 19:00:42 <billymg> ouch https://blockstream.info/nojs/tx/b5a2af5845a8d3796308ff9840e567b14cf6bb158ff26c999e6f9a1f5448f9aa
f655c9e03ce4915f…3ce4915f…2023-11-29 15:44:37 <billymg> awt: anything interesting being discussed in the private logs?
7de0ce7a22702afe…29a42c3c…2023-11-29 15:44:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-10-11 12:50:50 awt_akris[signpost]: Found a couple of new online "republics." Have joined. Very interesting.
f4c387ac22702afe…3033946a…2023-11-30 15:16:04 <discord_bridge> (awtho) billing: Yes. Some interesting discussions. Best relayed in an article I think.
da4cc9abf4c387ac…22702afe…2023-11-30 17:16:38 <billymg> awt: neat, i'd read their logs too if they were on a public www somewhere
33aa4e621dc835dc…1dc835dc…2023-11-30 17:16:41 <asciilifeform> to date these have disappointed right off the bat tho, almost universally 'we're a seekrit club, logs, wat logs'
c870f67533aa4e62…d208d856…2023-11-30 17:19:28 <signpost> everything I've ever popped into on discord has been autistic as all hell.
d8af012f8013fc88…c870f675…2023-11-30 17:22:43 <signpost> agreeing with you. not only seekrit club, but merely hole into which to dump one's anxieties, self-soothing behaviors, etc
a7d38506d8af012f…d8af012f…2023-11-30 17:23:14 <signpost> old threads in #t about creatures that chirp to one another like birds, rather than communicating for hours on coherent threads.
2990dfc1a7d38506…a7d38506…2023-11-30 17:23:37 <signpost> the social media addictions have done astonishing damage to attention.
c2d85f380bd9ba7e…2990dfc1…2023-11-30 17:23:57 signpost would be quite pleased to hear there are counterexamples, but not found.
8c8d2fa2fa5f562f…0bd9ba7e…2023-11-30 17:24:45 <asciilifeform> 'chirping' not imho appears magically, however -- it fills the sucking vacuum that appears absent anyffin concrete to discuss
c4950e5a8c8d2fa2…8c8d2fa2…2023-11-30 17:24:59 <asciilifeform> nobody afaik is ~making~ anyffin anymoar.
4a1063e92d3eceb9…fa5f562f…2023-11-30 17:25:55 <signpost> hard to generate the surplus (time, hands, money) with which to make
fbd820be4a1063e9…2d3eceb9…2023-11-30 21:21:02 <asciilifeform> sumbody, sumwhere, gotta have surplus... what are they doing? (other than yacht'n'coke etc)
314426e2c808259d…c808259d…2023-12-02 20:59:08 <billymg> could this finally be the decisive break through resistance?
e9776749d88dade8…4a1063e9…2023-12-02 22:55:30 <signpost> price still following hash rate moves. pretty cool.
fea328f3461d8fd9…461d8fd9…2023-12-04 01:01:28 <billymg> looking like yes, which means quickly up to ~47k or thereabouts before taking a breather again
27af756efea328f3…7de0ce7a…2023-12-04 01:00:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-02 15:58:37 billymg: could this finally be the decisive break through resistance?
0d17ade627af756e…4620eba0…2023-12-04 15:54:52 <signpost> hilarious to watch USG's banker goons beat the gold rally back down with paper.
63d8b47e0d17ade6…fea328f3…2023-12-04 18:21:10 <billymg> asciilifeform: looks like dulapbot is down in #a
9295de8ea87b47f3…a87b47f3…2023-12-04 18:22:26 <asciilifeform> the 1 missed line, link posted by mats
14bffcd91ee9d3cf…1ee9d3cf…2023-12-04 18:27:24 <billymg> what went wrong? even the average normie not dumb enough to use "totally secure" messaging app?
a7eda6c014bffcd9…9295de8e…2023-12-04 18:25:45 <asciilifeform> 'we're shocked, shocked, that there's gamblin' goin' on in this establishment!'(tm)(r)
4dc378b0a7eda6c0…a7eda6c0…2023-12-04 18:29:06 <asciilifeform> the 'ohnoez, they realized that reich inmates can aaalso use wunderbar anonytard chats!' desperate psyop doubling down is lulzy
93bf99274dc378b0…14bffcd9…2023-12-04 18:36:23 <billymg> yeah, was halfway expecting the "ackshually, usg pulled funding because the app is too good" explanation, and sure enough...
81471908b20ade90…27af756e…2023-12-04 18:40:24 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-12-15 asciilifeform: !#s marlinspike
a92baaee81471908…81471908…2023-12-04 18:40:24 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-04-07 asciilifeform: 'developed by Trevor Perrin and Moxie Marlinspike in 2013'
f717dc0fa92baaee…a92baaee…2023-12-04 18:40:24 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-08-01 phf: i like how marlinspike's whisper is the secure alternative to telegram. every time i mention telegram in any tech venue there's always some clown going "use whisper instead telegram is insecure!!!", because in their heads whisper, running on a fully locked down platform, obviously is
131ca74fbbecd758…f717dc0f…2023-12-04 18:42:14 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-06-12 asciilifeform: Framedragger: as reflected in the log search, marlinspike is usg asset and infamous pusher of crypto snakeoil.
486dd95f131ca74f…131ca74f…2023-12-04 18:42:14 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-06-12 asciilifeform: moxie m pushes shitphones. and ssl monkey tricks. and 'pgp is obsolete'.
50774ff2486dd95f…bbecd758…2023-12-04 18:41:53 <asciilifeform> d00d is 1 of the longest-playing reich assets in (what passes for) the crypto space.
690ec7a3486dd95f…486dd95f…2023-12-04 18:42:14 <bitbot> (trilema) 2015-02-25 mats: then goes on hn to say he doesn't know what the solution is but shills Open Whisper Systems, Mailpile, LEAP
9b9f6f8150774ff2…50774ff2…2023-12-04 18:42:41 <asciilifeform> lavishly funded, equipped with 'greek chorus' of bootlickers/upvoters/repasters which accompanies him errywhere, etc
9deea9b607b1dbff…9b9f6f81…2023-12-05 17:49:49 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: lulzily, asciilifeform when moving found yet anyther crate of snsa shirts. of which there is a seemingly infinite stash
0da8cfeb7d2d4a06…0d17ade6…2023-12-06 16:29:37 <signpost> qatar sovereign wealth fund rumors coming out of max kaiser
bf9b61e10da8cfeb…688481de…2023-12-06 16:30:15 <asciilifeform> lol, the same kaiser who's been pushing 'silver remonetized anyday nao' for 20y ?
fb7305acbf9b61e1…bf9b61e1…2023-12-06 16:30:41 <asciilifeform> archaetypical grifter, iirc even featured in mp's tirades
9b9976f42e5bdcaa…2e5bdcaa…2023-12-06 17:11:41 <shinohai> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-core-dev/2023-December/000131.html "The ability to create legacy wallets is being removed."
961377a949424fdb…49424fdb…2023-12-06 17:53:51 <asciilifeform> shinohai: wat'sa 'legacy' (per prb pov) wallet ? ( how does theirs differ currently ? )
58754b23961377a9…961377a9…2023-12-06 18:16:14 <asciilifeform> meanwhile in other recent prb lulz. hearnism (in the form of 'let's make noad protocol 9000x moar complicated, introduce remote 0days for nsa' is back !
0719742658754b23…0a16b382…2023-12-06 18:44:58 <shinohai> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-06#1031462 << Apparently they define it as anything that generates a p2pkh address.
3b59e1bb07197426…07197426…2023-12-06 18:45:41 <shinohai> Difficult to find a client out there not using bech32 format addys these days, because "muh taproot" or whatever.
e053b7e607197426…690ec7a3…2023-12-06 18:47:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-06 12:56:08 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel|billymg]: shinohai: wat'sa 'legacy' (per prb pov) wallet ? ( how does theirs differ currently ? )
50a58f3f3b59e1bb…0da8cfeb…2023-12-07 00:01:46 <signpost> in either case, qatar's emir apparently just landed in el salvador. they've got a half trillion USD sovereign wealth fund
5fc151fe50a58f3f…50a58f3f…2023-12-07 00:02:08 <signpost> re legacy wallets, on first read it sounded like referring to on-disk wallet format, not whether 1-address
32c0be755fc151fe…5fc151fe…2023-12-07 00:03:40 <signpost> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/descriptors.md << this thing I guess.
53a36ea73f456012…3b59e1bb…2023-12-07 17:22:40 <shinohai> Koch strikes again https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/953797/7222cd75661fb888/
bef25ead53a36ea7…58754b23…2023-12-07 17:24:40 <asciilifeform> approx as interesting as what's in the latest prb, imho
03b53b6b9dfb0788…9dfb0788…2023-12-07 18:06:35 <signpost> this approach is dated; what's with all the white cis dudes? they should find a troon of colour to champion this upgrade.
b087049103b53b6b…921e883a…2023-12-07 18:56:06 <asciilifeform> mop-up job, to try an' 'embrace & extinguish' the old rfc4880 support still floating around in various heathen proggies
ae1fbbc2b0870491…b0870491…2023-12-07 18:56:48 <asciilifeform> approx. same thing as the 'upgraded wallet' prb lul linked earlier
81d30382a265d1ce…a265d1ce…2023-12-08 01:19:46 <crtdaydreams> "If you see shit on one side of the cake: a) You clean that part up and eat the rest of the cake. b) You throw away the whole fucking cake."
68547d32ae1fbbc2…ae1fbbc2…2023-12-07 18:57:21 <asciilifeform> (point being to kill third-party tools which relied on old format, and push the 'replacements' baked by usual suspects)
fc99df8a68547d32…68547d32…2023-12-07 18:57:55 asciilifeform not finds this especially interesting, never saw any point in 'gui for gpg' nonsense
46e60714f06a2a8d…81d30382…2023-12-08 01:21:36 <crtdaydreams> I really find it hard to believe anyone would trust the PGP keys served by proton, it boggles the mind.
4f1bf15546e60714…46e60714…2023-12-08 01:22:29 crtdaydreams confesses to using proton, but not under any delusional pretenses of "seekurity"
e72587634f1bf155…4f1bf155…2023-12-08 01:23:12 <crtdaydreams> nfi how to set up and secure an email server
cf59f700e7258763…e7258763…2023-12-08 01:23:25 <crtdaydreams> from my understanding the spam problem is a bitch
710c03f3cf59f700…cf59f700…2023-12-08 01:24:30 <crtdaydreams> I find it hard to leave myself a central point of failure that I'm totally responsible for securing
80e3f9df710c03f3…710c03f3…2023-12-08 01:25:26 <crtdaydreams> it seem counterintuitive to have the email that runs email verification for the vps running on itself
980a126e80e3f9df…80e3f9df…2023-12-08 01:26:08 <crtdaydreams> if something goes wrong it seems like it'd be a real bitch to try and fix
e03a8152980a126e…980a126e…2023-12-08 01:27:41 <crtdaydreams> I'm all ears if someone here has a better solution than a 3rd party email provider
e769e99ee03a8152…f06a2a8d…2023-12-08 01:26:41 <signpost> if tmsr taught us anything, it's how much of a waste of time it is to try to polish imperial tech.
391e0633f909314d…f909314d…2023-12-08 01:27:23 <signpost> if you have need for secure communication, an airgapped 1.4 gpg will do well enough.
cc072b76391e0633…391e0633…2023-12-08 01:27:41 <signpost> there isn't such thing as a secure internet-connected item in the world.
4ec160c5cc072b76…cc072b76…2023-12-08 01:29:39 <signpost> even these airgapped items are only as good as whatever you/I don't know about gpg. It would in no way surprise me - and asciilifeform worked for quite some time on phuctor to demonstrate - that keys generated with any widely-available entropy sources are breakable.
080df1184ec160c5…4ec160c5…2023-12-08 01:30:10 <signpost> fuckgoats is sadly not widely available anymore, but I do trust that.
023bd1e1080df118…080df118…2023-12-08 01:31:16 <signpost> anyway, I literally use a hosted email from one of the major "tech" companies because I consider email unwanted enemy territory.
8b9bb0db023bd1e1…e03a8152…2023-12-08 01:34:26 <crtdaydreams> I haven't examined fg in depth, but I do get the general principle of it's RNG generation. Would anyone be able to comment on the general cost of just the components minus PCB?
df5f6c7b2142e3a7…2142e3a7…2023-12-08 01:36:06 <crtdaydreams> yeah, I initially picked proton over gmail/hotmail/etc because it doesn't ask for a phone number
eaaf4f0fdf5f6c7b…df5f6c7b…2023-12-08 01:36:24 <crtdaydreams> I got sick of gmail because of a spam problem, wanted a clean slate
69601c93eaaf4f0f…eaaf4f0f…2023-12-08 01:38:18 <crtdaydreams> There is a way to make new gmail accounts without a phone number, but it entails some shitfuckery and a device running an old android OS
0cd1c8ad69601c93…023bd1e1…2023-12-08 01:36:33 <signpost> the spam problem is inherent to the design of email; there's no way to fix it
7d9e16190cd1c8ad…69601c93…2023-12-08 01:40:42 <crtdaydreams> I'm aware, but it can be minimized to near nothing by being very selective of what you use it for
b062e5ce7d9e1619…7d9e1619…2023-12-08 01:41:38 <crtdaydreams> I just use it to maintain accounts for the basics, stuff that's unavoidable if you want to participate in modern society
21e7bc9db062e5ce…b062e5ce…2023-12-08 01:45:59 <crtdaydreams> on an aside note, something I've been meaning to ask is how do you get a hold of btc? are you guys using goxes for a fiat conversion then immediately transferring to a cold wallet?
2f8bc0db21e7bc9d…0cd1c8ad…2023-12-08 01:44:43 <signpost> if I had any btc, I would probably not leave it on an exchange.
91a1942f2f8bc0db…21e7bc9d…2023-12-08 01:48:48 <crtdaydreams> clearly, but what I'm alluding to is if there really is any bitcoin economy left
1a0c14e891a1942f…91a1942f…2023-12-08 01:49:02 <crtdaydreams> if anyone here is actively exchanging goods/labor directly for btc
db26ee6c1a0c14e8…2f8bc0db…2023-12-08 01:46:59 <signpost> thing's doing just fine as a hodl. one can buy goods from whoever's left standing after the collapse of the west.
aa9cbc0adb26ee6c…1a0c14e8…2023-12-08 01:51:49 <crtdaydreams> heh, teaching mandarin for btc in the next world
8b4e4ffdaa9cbc0a…aa9cbc0a…2023-12-08 02:01:50 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-05#1031966 << print on demand pretty well eliminates the handling
18d8c7ff8b4e4ffd…8b4e4ffd…2023-12-08 02:03:01 crtdaydreams wonders if awt is selling gildan crap or if going for that premium stuff
c8420f9318d8c7ff…18d8c7ff…2023-12-08 02:03:54 <crtdaydreams> not sure if there's any real sweet spot between quality and profit margins
077c71f8c8420f93…fc99df8a…2023-12-08 03:21:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031500 << ~30 $ iirc
4bb13782c8420f93…c8420f93…2023-12-09 02:15:28 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-07#1032040 << sounds like a fun little project, bonus points for making the whole unit waterproof and a hotsocket for sram chips
13995d91077c71f8…e053b7e6…2023-12-08 03:23:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 20:34:09 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: I haven't examined fg in depth, but I do get the general principle of it's RNG generation. Would anyone be able to comment on the general cost of just the components minus PCB?
fea6f01d4bb13782…7ad8b94b…2023-12-09 02:14:18 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: fun -- possibly, but 0 buyers at any kinda +ev price
a14f23974bb13782…4bb13782…2023-12-09 02:17:05 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-07#1032033 << dirtcheap, I'll be aiming to breadboard the unit at some pt
9aad75fe13995d91…077c71f8…2023-12-08 03:23:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031498 << asciilifeform was recently considering baking an acoustic (morse. hold up to pnoje, like old autodialers) pocket otptron for point to point text.
bc4900aba14f2397…fea6f01d…2023-12-09 02:14:35 <asciilifeform> as with all other interesting irons asciilifeform suggested
1647aee39aad75fe…13995d91…2023-12-08 03:25:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 20:32:25 signpost: fuckgoats is sadly not widely available anymore, but I do trust that.
56d19028bc4900ab…a14f2397…2023-12-09 02:19:37 <crtdaydreams> yeah I can't imagine any kindo of real market for it sadly
5fc2f3f51647aee3…9aad75fe…2023-12-08 03:24:37 <asciilifeform> (... then remembered that ~nobody wants to pay for sane irons lol )
796ed03b56d19028…56d19028…2023-12-09 02:20:08 <crtdaydreams> "been there done that" your point exactly
e890f6a55fc2f3f5…1647aee3…2023-12-08 03:26:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-01-30 14:36:13 asciilifeform[5]: the unfortunate thing is that the only 'cheap' iron is likely to be whatever you currently have, + what's in scrapyard
01f59594796ed03b…796ed03b…2023-12-09 02:21:16 <crtdaydreams> most people don't see any kind of tenable advantage, unlikely to even consider using rudimentary smoke signals in the best-use-case scenario of such a device
45db6314e890f6a5…5fc2f3f5…2023-12-08 03:25:32 <asciilifeform> would be arguably neat imho. 0 electronic connections to anyffin (other than partner unit when generating pad) , watertight.
8597bdb801f59594…01f59594…2023-12-09 02:23:18 <crtdaydreams> I was talking to a friend from highschool the other day, turns out she's becoming disillusioned with university and catching on to the effects of privacy and data collection
5d935c5245db6314…45db6314…2023-12-08 03:28:33 <asciilifeform> buttons a la tv remote, 16x4 lcd, piezo. punch in plaintext, hit send, dit-dah-dah-etc. hit receive & hold up to handset. hold down 'u'+'s'+'g' buttons to zap the sram.
1c1381f88597bdb8…8597bdb8…2023-12-09 02:25:25 <crtdaydreams> she explained that after her old samsung died she got one of her parents old iphones, she's not even comfortable talking around it, she's explained that on several occasions she's spoken about stuff with other people afk only to get ads for it not even a day later
4c3c45515d935c52…5d935c52…2023-12-08 03:29:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031502 << asciilifeform moar or less sees email as ~same as pastebin
1cea9c081c1381f8…1c1381f8…2023-12-09 02:30:35 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: you've read and understood the docs on the SCHEME-79 chip, right?
217d5a284c3c4551…e890f6a5…2023-12-08 03:32:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 20:35:50 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: yeah, I initially picked proton over gmail/hotmail/etc because it doesn't ask for a phone number
e23017891cea9c08…1cea9c08…2023-12-11 23:31:36 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-11#1032071 << this is true, but I'd like to mention that at the time of writing this I had not read AIM-559. But it's pretty much exactly what I'd been thinking of since I first learned lisp.
31f200ff217d5a28…4c3c4551…2023-12-08 03:30:16 <asciilifeform> i.e. not matters half a shit what to use so long as it doesn't habitually drop msgs on the floor
a1f9dd72e2301789…e2301789…2023-12-11 23:33:40 <crtdaydreams> Is this approach to hardware development in lisp unreasonable?
1af6e65131f200ff…31f200ff…2023-12-08 03:30:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031510 << other than asciilifeform's micro isp, afaik ~nuffin
c56f6ed6fa001118…bc4900ab…2023-12-11 15:56:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-08#1031542 << fwiw +ev doesn't necessarily require appeal to 'most people'. 'most people' won't buy an electron microscope, cyclotron, or even garbage truck
14d997e7a1f9dd72…3cb78770…2023-12-11 23:31:28 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: what approach, in particular?
6700061c1af6e651…217d5a28…2023-12-08 03:33:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 20:48:32 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: clearly, but what I'm alluding to is if there really is any bitcoin economy left
5b025ef4c56f6ed6…ba442444…2023-12-11 15:58:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-08 21:21:00 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: most people don't see any kind of tenable advantage, unlikely to even consider using rudimentary smoke signals in the best-use-case scenario of such a device
ed61fa7314d997e7…14d997e7…2023-12-11 23:32:09 <asciilifeform> ( and waht diff does it make? it aint as if you'll find sumbody who will take arbitrary ic mask you've generated with yer lisp and fab it for you )
c651a2576700061c…1af6e651…2023-12-08 03:35:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031508 << ideally you'd know a human willing to trade it for sumthing you have. this is no longer trivial and hasn't been for some yrs tho
9cd91e295b025ef4…c56f6ed6…2023-12-11 16:21:34 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-08#1031544 << 0-effort privacy is a false god. if yer indoors, assume the room is bugged, news at fucking 11.
2c9d4f0eed61fa73…ed61fa73…2023-12-11 23:32:28 <asciilifeform> afaik it not even matters any longer how much dough you've got. they won't do it
ba442444c651a257…6700061c…2023-12-08 03:38:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 20:45:43 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: on an aside note, something I've been meaning to ask is how do you get a hold of btc? are you guys using goxes for a fiat conversion then immediately transferring to a cold wallet?
e1466dd99cd91e29…5b025ef4…2023-12-11 16:23:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-08 21:25:08 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: she explained that after her old samsung died she got one of her parents old iphones, she's not even comfortable talking around it, she's explained that on several occasions she's spoken about stuff with other people afk only to get ads for it not even a day l
075313162c9d4f0e…2c9d4f0e…2023-12-11 23:32:36 <asciilifeform> will only do their in-house 'standard cells'
3a9732da2c9d4f0e…a1f9dd72…2023-12-11 23:35:15 <crtdaydreams> "an embedded language in lisp for describing layout artwork so we can procedurally define generators for generalized macro components"
7ad8b94bba442444…c651a257…2023-12-08 03:37:14 <asciilifeform> naturally one can buy from gox, and extract it to yer 1xxx addr (afaik still possible in most goxen). has the obv caveats.
637d5ad7ba442444…790359b1…2023-12-08 15:20:40 <awt_akris> crtdaydreams: bella+canvas is very popular right now.
e052c11ce1466dd9…9cd91e29…2023-12-11 16:22:16 <asciilifeform> whining about it does absolutely 0, guaranteed.
21b721953a9732da…07531316…2023-12-11 23:32:57 <asciilifeform> the physical end of this aint there anymoar (and afaik hasn't been for ~20y)
195694c4e052c11c…e052c11c…2023-12-11 16:23:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-08#1031545 << it is only interesting as a proof of concept
82fc31af21b72195…21b72195…2023-12-11 23:33:20 <asciilifeform> it'd have to be re-created, the way e.g. musk did with his rockets
699dd95121b72195…3a9732da…2023-12-11 23:35:59 <crtdaydreams> Well it might be dirty, but having a translation layer for an FPGA arch like the ecp-5?
879c3cbf195694c4…e1466dd9…2023-12-11 16:26:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-08 21:30:18 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: asciilifeform: you've read and understood the docs on the SCHEME-79 chip, right?
21d3e062699dd951…82fc31af…2023-12-11 23:34:22 <asciilifeform> hypothetically could, but the tool would be intensely particular to the arch (and yer unlikely to get 100% of the detail reqd to make it actually useful)
27c6ab7a879c3cbf…879c3cbf…2023-12-11 16:26:01 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-22 asciilifeform: scheme79 was a prototype, did not even have an alu!
b4b00f5b21d3e062…21d3e062…2023-12-11 23:34:50 <asciilifeform> then some time later they make an ecp6 or watever and it's back to start
6ca3485827c6ab7a…27c6ab7a…2023-12-11 16:26:01 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-22 phf: scheme-79 is not "whole thing published", which is something that i said in the logs multiple times also. there's AI memoes of variying detali, but the actual toolset, something called daedalus, and the corresponding daedalus files that actually describe the chip, are nowhere to be found. also die
93d46a71b4b00f5b…699dd951…2023-12-11 23:37:42 <crtdaydreams> the smaller ecp-5 chip is fully Reverse engineered, so the 100% detail part is already covered, but you might be tight on space
3cb787706ca34858…195694c4…2023-12-11 16:24:42 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: ...and if yer outdoors, and you took the fucking bug with you in yer pocket, 'room' also bugged, noshit.
392cacf993d46a71…b4b00f5b…2023-12-11 23:35:23 <asciilifeform> fully, incl. gate delays ? wasn't, last asciilifeform knew
496d182fed2aa885…392cacf9…2023-12-11 23:36:06 <asciilifeform> thing is that they aint an optional luxury. can't bake e.g. reliable ddr2 controller w/out knowing the gate delays and geometry of errything in that thing
bdede4641c315b58…1c315b58…2023-12-11 23:40:09 <crtdaydreams> I'd like to point out that if designed correctly more than 90% of the code would be arch independent
23fcc62cbdede464…bdede464…2023-12-11 23:40:33 <crtdaydreams> you want the parameters for the arch to be confined the the lowest layer, then it generates it's own netlist
915607f0bdede464…236406d6…2024-01-08 15:48:15 <cgra> o/ long time no text. asciilifeform: http://thebitcoin.foundation seems wrong here
479eac3e23fcc62c…496d182f…2023-12-11 23:39:03 <asciilifeform> point was that the netlist generator / optimizer part is by far the easiest, stood next to the 'fully reverse a recent fpga and then whatever successors' part
a3b92281479eac3e…23fcc62c…2023-12-11 23:42:11 <crtdaydreams> yeah definitely, but it's not to say it's impossible
6e01a27ea3b92281…a3b92281…2023-12-11 23:43:13 <crtdaydreams> its cheaper and less risky to de-lid an off-the-shelf fpga chip rather than your precious ivorys
3254928a6e01a27e…479eac3e…2023-12-11 23:40:43 <asciilifeform> defo not impossible, but if among your objectives is 'make it for a physical box that'll remain buyable' -- aint trivial
7108a5b03254928a…3254928a…2023-12-11 23:41:47 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: considering that you'll need to repeat whole procedure errytime they come out with a new edition -- it's a bitch
24803c937108a5b0…7108a5b0…2023-12-11 23:42:06 <asciilifeform> it's ~why~ they regularly phase out the old and bring in new
41f63f7f24803c93…6e01a27e…2023-12-11 23:45:06 <crtdaydreams> you're thinking of playing the cat & mouse game, wouldn't it be better to just stick with one arch for a while?
f53bb8635949986d…b960cb18…2024-01-08 18:41:14 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-08#1031742 << should be fixed nao. (clear dns cache if not seeing it)
9793ddb941f63f7f…24803c93…2023-12-11 23:42:40 <asciilifeform> the fpga vendors dun ~want~ anybody to have a usefully-large, 100% doc'd fpga.
90d4cbeff53bb863…478c5ba1…2024-01-08 18:43:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-08 10:50:44 cgra[jonsykkel|billymg]: o/ long time no text. asciilifeform: http://thebitcoin.foundation seems wrong here
5ff0f96a90d4cbef…f53bb863…2024-01-08 18:42:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-07#1031739 << is that a shell to a linux box or didja actually implement pestron on terrydavis?
beb3c1ffee963ed9…ee963ed9…2023-12-11 23:43:08 <asciilifeform> you can 'stick with 1 arch' for so long as it's in print.
807e33195ff0f96a…90d4cbef…2024-01-08 18:44:51 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-07 15:56:17 shinohai[signpost]: Well if anyone here ever wondered what Pest would look like in Temple OS, it's your lucky day: https://btc.info.gf/uploads/TOSPEST.png
6d6c68ef807e3319…915607f0…2024-01-09 06:53:51 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-08#1031749 << confirmed
6ea063a98114ebd0…beb3c1ff…2023-12-11 23:44:25 <asciilifeform> all of this assumes, naturally, that aim is to make a box that's available to other folx, rather than 1 unit 'under my pillow'
ad0b3ab36d6c68ef…807e3319…2024-01-09 06:56:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-08 13:43:42 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-08#1031742 << should be fixed nao. (clear dns cache if not seeing it)
bafb81fb6ea063a9…6ea063a9…2023-12-11 23:44:34 asciilifeform not very interested in '1, under pillow' works
3235fb41ad0b3ab3…6d6c68ef…2024-01-09 07:55:33 <cgra> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-04#1031734 << my personal favourite crystall ball, with the meme lines hand-adjusted every 3 years or so these days. chart has historic mtgox prices, combined with the rest ripped from coinmarketcap.com. figures in top left describe
8d3ff22cbafb81fb…8114ebd0…2023-12-11 23:49:06 <crtdaydreams> could have pillowpc or be forever chained to insane arch, I'd pick pillowpc, if nothing, it's a working PoC
ce4387103235fb41…ad0b3ab3…2024-01-09 07:58:02 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-04 10:52:26 billymg: continuing to follow the same meme line
5dc0833ece438710…a8fb10c1…2024-01-09 13:48:40 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-09#1031755 << very nice. long term meme lines are best meme lines
728c771c9c15183f…bafb81fb…2023-12-11 23:49:32 <asciilifeform> if you haven't solved 'can make over9000 of these, and next year too' you haven't 'unchained', what you've got is a kind of updated 'ivory'
1206da965dc0833e…ce438710…2024-01-09 13:47:42 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-09 02:58:01 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-04#1031734 << my personal favourite crystall ball, with the meme lines hand-adjusted every 3 years or so these days. chart has historic mtgox prices, combined with the rest ripp
c1420f23728c771c…9c15183f…2023-12-11 23:52:44 <crtdaydreams> at the very least, some miracle happens and in some way shape or form you get a production run of a few thousand ICs, you'd then be at square one, you'd have a chip but nothin' to run on it
3cfcada61206da96…5efa6ec3…2024-01-09 20:06:36 <cgra> billymg, i'd like those lines as curves, across the whole timeline, but couldn't grasp the math yet for a suitable formula
84942b90c1420f23…c1420f23…2023-12-11 23:53:19 <crtdaydreams> unlike ivory, you'd have the source from the ground up
5b4c4cf53cfcada6…5dc0833e…2024-01-10 17:47:08 <billymg> cgra: one of my favorites is the one generated back in 2014, which held pretty well until the FTX shenanigans
cd4cda0784942b90…84942b90…2023-12-11 23:54:17 <crtdaydreams> It's different from a gabriel-laddelism
6c21b578cd4cda07…728c771c…2023-12-11 23:54:34 <asciilifeform> the 'there's nuffin to run on it' is separate problem, that can't even productively approach until you've got at least coupla hndred units floating around.
8651e9df6c21b578…6c21b578…2023-12-11 23:55:19 asciilifeform would suggest to start with e.g. 'macsyma'+graphics
dbf390bf8651e9df…8651e9df…2023-12-11 23:55:58 <asciilifeform> aim being 'this box is fun to play with' as a first thing
c14742f3dbf390bf…cd4cda07…2023-12-11 23:59:21 <crtdaydreams> I'm thinking as versatile as a rpi, but instead of an arm chip, you've got an FPGA
1966eeeebaf2fc97…baf2fc97…2023-12-12 00:00:54 <crtdaydreams> by 'nuffin to run on it' I'm referring to not even a serial repl
e8121c7e1966eeee…1966eeee…2023-12-12 00:01:44 <crtdaydreams> there's a fair bit of groundwork that if designed correctly, should be trivially decoupled from the netlist generator/underlying arch
bb7776a5e8121c7e…dbf390bf…2023-12-12 00:00:54 <asciilifeform> the 'writing in the sand on the beach' aspect of this (where fpga regularly 'obsoleted' and re-editioned) is likely why we still dunhave (and aint about to) a serious open synth tool
227a7102e8121c7e…e8121c7e…2023-12-12 00:03:34 <crtdaydreams> if you get around to custom ICs, you just write a netlist generator for your own arch
cbba8200227a7102…bb7776a5…2023-12-12 00:01:59 <asciilifeform> 'if you get around to launching own moon lander' similarly...
cacc1049cbba8200…227a7102…2023-12-12 00:06:03 <crtdaydreams> yeah but if you actually do get around to launching your own moon lander, it's kinda useless if you can't control it
f3bf61eacacc1049…cacc1049…2023-12-12 00:06:29 <crtdaydreams> launching your moon lander without software
b491bb11a6597420…cbba8200…2023-12-12 00:04:41 asciilifeform old enuff that he lost appetite for writing fw for moon launchers 'in case one day gets to launch one'
612c0a7cb491bb11…a6597420…2023-12-12 00:08:29 <crtdaydreams> You'd be writing for a sattelite already in orbit
d9e7238a612c0a7c…b491bb11…2023-12-12 00:07:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: wainot go and write? afaik there aint any kinda lisp fpga synth at all atm
f632b51cbb799273…bb799273…2023-12-12 00:07:56 <asciilifeform> atm all there is in re public synth tools is that py3 crock o'shit
e2710a28f632b51c…612c0a7c…2023-12-12 00:11:02 <crtdaydreams> that's the plan, but currently too stupid
3067c531e2710a28…f632b51c…2023-12-12 00:08:26 <asciilifeform> and author had his balls snipped off, and iirc lost interest
e9dd94a449565446…e2710a28…2023-12-12 00:12:36 <crtdaydreams> working slowly on un-stupiding, if I had mentorship for actually learning how to apply lisp in an intelligent manner, it'd speed up the smartifying process by a fair chunk
ba386a3de9dd94a4…49565446…2023-12-12 00:10:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: learn like errybody else learned, by experimenting
54e2bf43ba386a3d…ba386a3d…2023-12-12 00:10:56 <asciilifeform> afaik no one tuned in here had 'troo mentorship', the folx who could've given it, died of old age long ago
32c77b1454e2bf43…e9dd94a4…2023-12-12 00:15:41 <crtdaydreams> Do you think that it would be wiser to pick an existing standarized lisp dialect like scheme or cl to write the embedded hdl lang in?
6ffb247e32c77b14…54e2bf43…2023-12-12 00:14:02 <asciilifeform> pick sumthing you can run currently, if yer proggy is properly 'fit in head', can always port it later to yer space age fyootoor lisp
98b506f16ffb247e…32c77b14…2023-12-12 00:17:47 <crtdaydreams> True, just have some inhibitions about "why did he use pedolang" lol
a309342e98b506f1…98b506f1…2023-12-12 00:22:57 <crtdaydreams> are you prepared to answer lots of stupid questions?
8d92fa7ea309342e…a309342e…2023-12-12 00:24:13 <crtdaydreams> I'll make an effort to get better at asking intelligent questions, but you have years of experience I don't. So I'm sure plenty of questions I come up with are going to seem stupid.
9215cb8d8d92fa7e…6ffb247e…2023-12-12 00:22:12 asciilifeform must bbl but will try to answer questions at some pt, leave'em in the logs
b5384d2133d92cd5…33d92cd5…2023-12-12 00:25:10 <crtdaydreams> but down the line, expect there to be some
fd828273b5384d21…9215cb8d…2023-12-12 04:25:21 <asciilifeform> in wholly-unrealated noose, eurisko src allegedly leaked ! we only had to wait 42 yrs...
99316a14b5384d21…b5384d21…2023-12-13 04:00:08 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2023-12-12#1115563 << g'day what brings you here to these parts?
3ab95a5a644933fe…644933fe…2023-12-13 04:10:46 <crtdaydreams> If you've read through the spec you would be correct in understanding that pest does not facilitate a secure key exchange, instead the mechanism of which is left up to individual peers.
c03fd9683ab95a5a…3ab95a5a…2023-12-13 07:29:22 crtdaydreams wonders whether mangol ever made any progress on scheme pestron
079450f0c03fd968…c03fd968…2023-12-13 07:30:25 <crtdaydreams> last I heard of him was some kind of http/pest script for serving webshits in l_n
81f0bbe2f6f3f064…f6f3f064…2023-12-13 09:30:55 <crtdaydreams> on logs.nosuchlabs.com "http/pest" is a link to nowhere?
24d3d554e43864d7…9fcbbe20…2023-12-13 15:34:18 <billymg> awt: fyi the pest/discord bridge invite link has expired https://discord.com/invite/AhyJY8MK
490c63fb24d3d554…f4c387ac…2023-12-13 15:38:14 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Try this: https://discord.gg/9kuAgDrBYG
bdcfcf5282126196…82126196…2023-12-13 16:53:11 <discord_bridge> (_relue) im going through the fun that trying to find a V implementation (which i found v.pl), and the bootstrapping gprbuild as my repository doesn't have it (or GNAT for that matter), just so i can apply some silly vpatches but oh well, that's the point, right?
dbc2ae330832cb0a…0832cb0a…2023-12-13 17:09:51 <awt_akris> Also, I no longer maintain blatta. Akris is an updated version with a gui: http://pestnet.io/akris.html
15456c07dbc2ae33…e99efac8…2023-12-13 17:15:53 <asciilifeform> _relue: how'd you develop an interest in the items in question, and how long have you been tuned in ?
e76b220915456c07…bdcfcf52…2023-12-14 02:31:17 <discord_bridge> (_relue) well i found your website through wiby.me about a week ago, and it was both active and had something interesting on it, and i found a post in regards to it again on lainchan.org, so i thought i could read up on the pest spec myself
389242dde76b2209…e76b2209…2023-12-14 02:32:08 <discord_bridge> (_relue) and thank you, it has been a little troublesome finding which projects are the 'standard' implementations, but for something like this, thats not quite fair
05631da9389242dd…389242dd…2023-12-14 02:37:55 <discord_bridge> (_relue) i apolagise for being a pain, would i need to give my wot before being able to download the provided bin file? it returns an error when i try to download it. the reason i mention it is that the vpatch is accessible and i could use vdiff (it's just i would need to look through the vpatch and add all the new files t
09874b7b05631da9…05631da9…2023-12-14 02:37:55 <discord_bridge> hat would be created, which is a bit laborious, but if its intended, hey, i have an entire christmas)
b2ef300509874b7b…052c8b20…2023-12-14 03:18:42 <crtdaydreams> relue: fwiw the mod for lainchins' programming board is verisimilitude, he might have his own wot+pestnet but no clue, you'd have to ask him. he vanished from here a little while after getting [http:
ff05852cb2ef3005…b2ef3005…2023-12-14 03:18:42 <crtdaydreams> //logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-03#1110429][flamed]. rather
4287c66fff05852c…ff05852c…2023-12-14 03:18:44 <crtdaydreams> interesting that his flavour of software evangelism is evidently working lol
f1a784814287c66f…4287c66f…2023-12-14 03:20:08 <crtdaydreams> ...after getting flamed. rather interesting that his flavour of software evangelism is evidently working lol
a0f833535efc1817…15456c07…2023-12-14 03:25:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-13#1031652 << sounds like broken link? tell awt_akris which 1
d06cd88d5efc1817…5efc1817…2023-12-28 05:13:56 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: do you have any info on Symbolics NS?
773fe5caa0f83353…6ca34858…2023-12-14 03:27:40 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-13 21:40:17 discord_bridge[signpost]: (_relue) i apolagise for being a pain, would i need to give my wot before being able to download the provided bin file? it returns an error when i try to download it. the reason i mention it is that the vpatch is accessible and i could use vdiff (it's just i would nee
e692cc56d06cd88d…687e02d2…2023-12-28 15:07:34 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: not beyond what's in the logs
a738d1f4773fe5ca…a0f83353…2023-12-14 03:26:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-13#1031652 << you can defo check the signatures manually via gpg and apply the patches in order, with patch -p0 < foo_n_of_m.patch
8a8bf8d4773fe5ca…24d3d554…2023-12-14 13:54:14 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-13#1031652 << bin does indeed seem to be missing on http://pestnet.io/akris.html, specifically it's just a 326 byte html file showing a 403 error
f3d7310be692cc56…d06cd88d…2023-12-28 20:51:06 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-01-17#1772209 << yeah so from my research, Weste is not only just one of the guys that worked on it. The dude was the project leader for the entire NS prog. here's a reference doc for the university of adelaide
ea3c9064a738d1f4…773fe5ca…2023-12-14 03:28:46 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-13 21:40:17 discord_bridge[signpost]: (_relue) i apolagise for being a pain, would i need to give my wot before being able to download the provided bin file? it returns an error when i try to download it. the reason i mention it is that the vpatch is accessible and i could use vdiff (it's just i would nee
289fdc2c8a8bf8d4…ea3c9064…2023-12-14 13:53:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-13 21:40:17 discord_bridge[signpost]: (_relue) i apolagise for being a pain, would i need to give my wot before being able to download the provided bin file? it returns an error when i try to download it. the reason i mention it is that the vpatch is accessible and i could use vdiff (it's just i would nee
13d13580f3d7310b…f3d7310b…2023-12-28 20:52:53 <crtdaydreams> the guy's been around the block more than once, he also co-founded the company that implemented the first commertial wifi chip
266c7004289fdc2c…8a8bf8d4…2023-12-14 13:55:17 <billymg> http://share.alethepedia.com/akris/ << that's awt's www, iirc from where i tried to grab the bin originally. must've just curl'd the file and uploaded to pestnet without checking it (right now the directory appears to be empty)
d5bac92413d13580…13d13580…2023-12-28 20:54:56 <crtdaydreams> he's currently on advisory boards for several companies
76a0f88e266c7004…dbc2ae33…2023-12-14 14:38:53 <awt_akris> billymg: Akris is at http://v.alethepedia.com/akris/
e7989826d5bac924…d5bac924…2023-12-28 20:55:13 <crtdaydreams> no public website or email address anywhere
d94ea38576a0f88e…266c7004…2023-12-14 14:44:23 <billymg> awt: ah, hey, it's even linked to on pestnet.io
94099546e7989826…e7989826…2023-12-28 20:58:13 <crtdaydreams> I presume he's going to be rather tight-lipped
5020b302d94ea385…d94ea385…2023-12-14 14:44:40 <billymg> not sure where i got the old binary from but i see you have one here now http://v.alethepedia.com/akris_desktop/#download-and-run-the-signed-binary
0f099be594099546…e692cc56…2023-12-28 20:57:00 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: what were you hoping to get outta him ? supposing he even has sumthing like intact brain at all at this pt
7fc11a140f099be5…0f099be5…2023-12-28 20:58:13 <asciilifeform> ( if it's src -- don't waste yer time, it aint happening )
b67ac9c90f099be5…94099546…2023-12-28 21:01:19 <crtdaydreams> he might have an old paperback manual for NS (if such a thing ever existed)
1201523dd3b9bd7a…d3b9bd7a…2023-12-14 14:46:46 <billymg> awt: not sure what the actual url of the bin is though. https://v.alethepedia.com/akris_desktop/akris-desktop-99999.linux.x86_64.bin and https://v.alethepedia.com/akris_desktop/akris-desktop-VERSION.linux.x86_64.bin don't go anywhere
8c4519f97fc11a14…fe542455…2023-12-28 21:00:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:45:20 asciilifeform[6]: soo, d00d wrote emulator, then... went to zombie mallery for 'ask permission' to show it to anyone. lol
2acb5e561201523d…1201523d…2023-12-14 14:47:48 <billymg> and http://v.alethepedia.com/akris_desktop/akris-desktop-99999.linux.x86_64.bin is 403
644d91e88c4519f9…8c4519f9…2023-12-28 21:00:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:53:58 asciilifeform[6]: ( starting with mallery, who 'i bought for $mil, but Worth Billions!' -- or alternatively, per asciilifeform's hypothesis, simply happy to sit on the whole thing for nsa & co. who not eager to see even toy example of cpu-and-os-sans-overflows rise from bottom of ocean )
947d51792acb5e56…2acb5e56…2023-12-14 14:48:42 <billymg> ^ might've been the one i grabbed originally and just uploaded the 403 response html without checking
2af19168644d91e8…b67ac9c9…2023-12-28 21:01:55 <crtdaydreams> I'm fully aware of dead-end for any kind of sauce
edb2c7fc2af19168…2af19168…2023-12-28 21:02:25 <crtdaydreams> if he's got any hardcopy symbolics docs, chine nual etc. rarities
2c803018edb2c7fc…edb2c7fc…2023-12-28 21:02:56 <crtdaydreams> but surely seeing if guy wrote the thing he'd have a manual for it
e8a89ea22c803018…7fc11a14…2023-12-28 20:59:59 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: the paper docs for the base softs aint rare ( asciilifeform has'em ) and in fact exist on the ubiquitous genera cd
a60fb511b8669af3…4c9e8531…2023-12-14 15:19:35 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011961
034d8b23e8a89ea2…e8a89ea2…2023-12-28 21:00:25 <asciilifeform> can't recall if ns doc is there ( suppose it is, what good it will do ? )
fe542455a60fb511…289fdc2c…2023-12-14 15:18:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 18:24:21 asciilifeform[4]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-08-30#1011955 << do they need excuse ?
7aa62674034d8b23…2c803018…2023-12-28 21:03:56 <crtdaydreams> 9http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-18#1863748 << so amberglint was wrong?
d22e3dea7aa62674…7aa62674…2023-12-28 21:05:16 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-28#1032239 << it would provide a damn good scaffold for design of "lisp hdl" and hint at a lot of potential problems and resolutions
3702f570d22e3dea…d22e3dea…2023-12-28 21:06:03 <crtdaydreams> at the very least give insight to the use of NS "as is"
c7a887d13702f570…3702f570…2023-12-28 21:10:00 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-12-28#1032230 << I don't think he's head that way, still seems like he's actively involved in vlsi design in one way or another, I don't think his meat cpu has carked it
636ff708a00e773d…954c3f08…2024-01-01 01:02:06 <discord_bridge> (awtho) billymg: just across town to a bigger place
cf4920ebc7c46ce5…9ea6f095…2023-12-31 23:02:26 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Only places I've been near Houston are Sugarland and Conroe
420ac94b636ff708…3138c6dd…2024-01-01 01:56:58 <billymg> awtho: still california?? i guess you can't beat the weather
954c3f08cf4920eb…cf4920eb…2023-12-31 23:07:17 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Congrats on the move btw. Just moved house here as well.
c64bbccd420ac94b…636ff708…2024-01-01 02:11:09 <discord_bridge> (awtho) billymg: yes, still california.
f48f7012806d023a…b652ab80…2023-12-20 14:37:54 <billymg> still seems to be respecting the lines (for some reason)
befdfc19f48f7012…f48f7012…2023-12-20 14:38:22 <billymg> zoomed in you can see it bounced right on the line
478c5ba1a8fb10c1…644d91e8…2024-01-04 15:52:26 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-20 09:39:31 billymg: a line drawn back in june
0707f208ac341ed0…c601382c…2024-01-07 00:59:40 <shinohai> Well if anyone here ever wondered what Pest would look like in Temple OS, it's your lucky day: https://btc.info.gf/uploads/TOSPEST.png
21b946da0707f208…c7c46ce5…2024-01-07 20:53:30 <signpost> can't tell if replay or today, but neato shinohai
75462bd021b946da…a00e773d…2024-01-11 02:31:50 <crtdaydreams> fwiw wanted to put a face/voice to the name. rare footage of the elusive mallery be found @40 minute mark
5ab9cd4b8fd86a4e…c162680e…2024-01-11 17:27:35 <asciilifeform> heat engine working correctly on both strokes of piston, eh
2385e0ba5ab9cd4b…1206da96…2024-01-11 17:30:06 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
c2e04e59f21f4d00…a849d4cd…2024-01-11 19:01:32 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. old stuff by misc. old lurkers.
9fa811b61d883134…1d883134…2024-01-12 23:13:26 <asciilifeform> nominally in honour of some new papercoin print run
b70875dc9fa811b6…9fa811b6…2024-01-12 23:17:40 <asciilifeform> incidentally, nao dumpers, as asciilifeform understands, have even less than ever before need to come up with actual btc in order to 'sell'
f6f69570b70875dc…34a8f827…2024-01-14 13:11:49 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Looks like I'm enduring 2nd round of covid (after 4 years). This time with hives.
3924103518c119e9…18c119e9…2024-01-14 19:11:01 billymg had it at least twice, the first time being the only bad one
6dbaa97799f06e21…39241035…2024-01-17 21:51:35 <billymg> after the recent dump looks like this is still in play
044fea316dbaa977…2385e0ba…2024-01-17 21:50:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-11-02 11:19:34 billymg: signpost: a proper retest of the lower line, which served as resistance for over three years, seems very likely
d21fcfb1044fea31…6dbaa977…2024-01-17 21:52:25 <billymg> notice how the tape painters dumped it just below that same line and have kept it just below that line
674dece6d21fcfb1…d21fcfb1…2024-01-17 21:54:54 <billymg> dumping all the way down to the lower, downward-sloping line seems less likely now than it did in november. but could still happen
b027cdddb3614b6c…21b946da…2024-01-19 17:36:26 <signpost> seems like grayscale's turd is going to bleed out for a while
cb124f8860733a54…044fea31…2024-01-19 18:13:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-08-30 13:34:55 billymg: in some cases, can't withdraw!
17ddd5620e76b25c…a8a71da5…2024-01-19 18:12:41 <asciilifeform> billymg: the linked pg does not seem to contain any revelation that coin is being dumped
d0890f497ed3cb6e…0e76b25c…2024-01-19 18:16:59 <billymg> asciilifeform: zoom out to "all", been steadily selling since '21 peak
fa917648dd095d9e…d0890f49…2024-01-19 18:18:46 <billymg> possibly now that converted to etf dumping more rapidly, but i dunno. like you said, not reflected yet in that linked chart
d87ff47ffa917648…dd095d9e…2024-01-19 18:17:15 <asciilifeform> re etf, asciilifeform laffs at the folx who laboured under the notion that a coupla gigatonne of papercoin being printed would pump, rather than sink, exchrate
fd7980effa917648…8c88f1b5…2024-01-19 18:19:04 <awt_akris> Also, why did gold price increase after the gold etf?
4b925b6986ad9cad…d87ff47f…2024-01-19 18:18:19 <asciilifeform> the dough that's buying papercoin aint chasing actual btc, neh
85f741f0fd7980ef…4b925b69…2024-01-19 18:20:46 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: iirc there is considerably moar papergold, on planet3, than actual gold. so stands to reason that au exchrate would have increased considerably moar if it weren't for the paper
112d9f1585f741f0…fd7980ef…2024-01-19 18:21:05 <awt_akris> Should have gone down, if indeed etfs have no relationship to the underlying asset.
cd64299b112d9f15…85f741f0…2024-01-19 18:21:14 <asciilifeform> re 'how know it's papercoin' -- presumption of guilt
20f8ecbbcd64299b…cd64299b…2024-01-19 18:22:56 <asciilifeform> no reason why should have 'down' in the absolute. is quite enuff for the perps to keep it at e.g. 4x when ought be, say, 10x vs. e.g. 30y ago
9b3f919820f8ecbb…20f8ecbb…2024-01-19 18:24:07 <asciilifeform> very similarly re btc -- the lizards aint trying to 'drive it to 0', but rather to prevent it from working as a reliable general-purpose inflation shelter
afb39b0c9b3f9198…112d9f15…2024-01-19 18:26:29 <awt_akris> How would gold price have increased more? More people buying bars and putting in safes?
ebb888856fc35dda…9b3f9198…2024-01-19 18:27:15 <asciilifeform> not necessary hypothesis. simply usd sinking. same way e.g. usa real estate 'went to moon'
9f44ed81ebb88885…6fc35dda…2024-01-19 18:28:11 <awt_akris> I don't know if gold increased more or less in line with housing costs.
5ca3b4ad9f44ed81…ebb88885…2024-01-19 18:28:31 <asciilifeform> (but, naturally, if it were the case that whenever buying power of usd sinks, au -- or btc -- proportionately rises, errybody would in fact load up. which is precisely what 'paperization' aims to prevent.)
57904f405ca3b4ad…5ca3b4ad…2024-01-19 18:29:39 <asciilifeform> if there were an 'undebaseable' asset, erryone with any savings would run to it.
d7d4e92f57904f40…57904f40…2024-01-19 18:31:54 <asciilifeform> exactly the same way that folx in ex-sov world ran to usd in 1990s (or e.g. argentines -- currently)
d83168b6d7d4e92f…d7d4e92f…2024-01-19 18:33:41 <asciilifeform> paperization gives 'you can run, but can't hide' effectively. you can load up on 40k btc nao but no guarantee that it won't be 20k 2-3y from nao, etc
90e67e33d83168b6…9f44ed81…2024-01-19 18:36:16 <awt_akris> Is there any way to demonstrate to your satisfaction that etfs hold btc?
878fc68590e67e33…d83168b6…2024-01-19 18:36:23 <asciilifeform> atm, afaik the only 'undebaseable' (i.e. monotonic 'moon') assets in the reich are e.g. pre-ww2 (non-cardboard) real estate, rembrandts, and the like. this is by design (what'd be the point of inflating usd if it dinged ~errybody~ equally)
60f1e3cc878fc685…878fc685…2024-01-19 18:36:59 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: if when one bought/sold etf, actual coin could be seen moving on the chain, say
2c51e49a60f1e3cc…60f1e3cc…2024-01-19 18:37:43 <asciilifeform> even then, however, you'd have nfi whether is 'allocated to you and only to you', conceivably same tx could be shown to >1 user
d312cc4c2c51e49a…90e67e33…2024-01-19 18:38:15 <awt_akris> How about given the way the current etfs work?
f4b721af64bc824f…64bc824f…2024-01-19 18:39:03 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: afaik they work similarly to the au etf, neh ? i.e. not convertible on demand to the genuine article in any way
8926c4c8f4b721af…d312cc4c…2024-01-19 18:39:31 <awt_akris> Correct. But these are public companies that must make quarterly filings.
b927a2268926c4c8…f4b721af…2024-01-19 18:40:17 <asciilifeform> iirc so is e.g. coinbase. but do you actually think that it has actual btc at 100% reserve ?
39d375b6b927a226…8926c4c8…2024-01-19 18:40:41 <awt_akris> Presumably they gotta report in a verifiable way purchases and sales.
1c069bcc39d375b6…b927a226…2024-01-19 18:41:15 asciilifeform not aware of any official requirement in any jurisdiction that goxes demonstrate 100% reserve
f38962f91c069bcc…1c069bcc…2024-01-19 18:41:26 <asciilifeform> they're required to report movements of usd, but this is orthogonal
04ebee94f38962f9…39d375b6…2024-01-19 18:41:32 <awt_akris> If they lie on filings, they are subject to lawsuits
30052aae04ebee94…04ebee94…2024-01-19 18:42:03 <awt_akris> So one could sue them and get this info in discovery
1c4cf34104ebee94…f38962f9…2024-01-19 18:42:06 <asciilifeform> the lie never gets revealed until there's a mtgox-style 'bank run' tho
7bb046a930052aae…1c4cf341…2024-01-19 18:42:54 asciilifeform not heard of anyone successfully suing a not yet already-busted gox/ftx/etc to prove solvency
682947397bb046a9…30052aae…2024-01-19 18:45:25 <awt_akris> You'd have to have a massive number of employees, officials, and judges in on the conspiracy
071ab22f68294739…68294739…2024-01-19 18:46:12 <awt_akris> across multiple companies, agencies, and juristdictions
00598b61071ab22f…7bb046a9…2024-01-19 18:49:58 <asciilifeform> how many people were needed at mtgox, while the latter was successfully running fractional reserve ?
81e7e57c72920d95…72920d95…2024-01-19 18:51:25 <asciilifeform> if there hadn't been a run, would still be going, buying billboards, etc
0bd8e05381e7e57c…071ab22f…2024-01-19 18:52:46 <awt_akris> Mt. Gox was not based in the US, not a public company.
ae4cb4b3c7f02670…b027cddd…2024-01-19 22:07:49 <signpost> https://archive.is/uOhKJ << volume spike in gbtc. their fee is iirc 2%, so some of that will go to other ETFs, others may be leaving the market entirely.
633b8365ae4cb4b3…ae4cb4b3…2024-01-19 22:09:08 <signpost> re: holding of underlying my butt says the gigabanks were given legal cover for breaking the law in regard to gold.
8d36601b633b8365…633b8365…2024-01-19 22:10:29 <signpost> I am skeptical that the same is going on with coinbase right now. they, kraken, and a few others have consistently published merkle proofs of reserves.
77c9bd258d36601b…8d36601b…2024-01-19 22:27:45 <signpost> in either case, one should hold btc with the us dollar's collapse in mind, not an eye towards increasing usd wealth
28c94f8977c9bd25…c7f02670…2024-01-19 23:32:52 <asciilifeform> signpost: the various manipulations are specifically to prevent usd collapse (i.e. the appearance of a sumthing that one could reliably flee into from usd printola, the way '90s ru folx fled from ruble to deutschmark, swiss frank, usd)
2e604f3828c94f89…77c9bd25…2024-01-19 23:34:46 <signpost> certainly are, but I think we're as corrupt and leaky as same in say 89 or 90
9549ecd12e604f38…2e604f38…2024-01-19 23:36:03 <signpost> that the reptiles like vanguard are preventing plebs from buying while they themselves buy into miners says much.
c8ac847cbe01e600…28c94f89…2024-01-19 23:38:11 <asciilifeform> scheme is that plebe is forced to choose b/w a) saving in usd, which sinks steadily (and in occasional bursts, '71, '19, etc) and b) gambling in paper casino, where might e.g. +20% over year or -20% or whatever %, with only guarantee being that 'house wins'
a85dc594c8ac847c…c8ac847c…2024-01-19 23:40:54 <asciilifeform> (1 key attribute of plebe errywhere is also that he is easily persuaded that he's 'winning', because has ~0 awareness of opportunity cost. e.g. in ru there are banks paying 15-25% interest on deposits...)
95dcc70da85dc594…a85dc594…2024-01-19 23:49:42 <asciilifeform> re: miners, imho they're indisputably the weakest link in the whole edifice. erry single day, mining gets moar effectively centralized, less within reach of humans, than prev. day
1806aa4b95dcc70d…95dcc70d…2024-01-19 23:50:50 asciilifeform curious re when was it last the case that a human could actually mine at even remotely near +ev
398e93381806aa4b…1806aa4b…2024-01-19 23:51:29 <asciilifeform> i.e. buy the box, and actually recover its purchase cost + that of the mains current before rising difficulty makes it a guaranteed never
4c7a2879398e9338…fa917648…2024-01-20 22:16:55 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-19#1031864 << oh neat, miners are gonna airdrop bidencoin for us to dump? keep me posted
634e8bd84c7a2879…cb124f88…2024-01-20 22:15:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-19 18:52:14 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: re: miners, imho they're indisputably the weakest link in the whole edifice. erry single day, mining gets moar effectively centralized, less within reach of humans, than prev. day
34d36fca634e8bd8…be01e600…2024-01-20 22:18:18 <signpost> definitely the case that mining is a heavy industry now, not something an individual can meaningfully do. whether that undermines decentralization is an open question, though indisputably having more mining participants means more decentralization.
7e34dc3d34d36fca…34d36fca…2024-01-20 22:18:49 <signpost> at least on a "pool" basis there is no single pool wielding >50% atm.
7a21e6e47e34dc3d…7e34dc3d…2024-01-20 22:20:52 <signpost> (and at least the energy resources necessary to mine reside in multiple orwell-scale empires who have reason to defect on the matter of excluding transactions from blocks)
7e0a0b137a21e6e4…7a21e6e4…2024-01-20 22:21:18 <signpost> still better than fiat, but not necessarily the system originally envisioned by satoshi.
ed8254847e0a0b13…7e0a0b13…2024-01-20 22:22:03 <signpost> (though if hal finney was in fact satoshi, he did see a day where bitcoin would only be held and transacted by banks, iirc, so there's reason for doubt)
501ab87ced825484…ed825484…2024-01-20 22:34:05 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-20#1031869 << completely, I mean of course.
9ea2d1a5501ab87c…634e8bd8…2024-01-20 22:36:37 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-20 17:20:53 signpost: definitely the case that mining is a heavy industry now, not something an individual can meaningfully do. whether that undermines decentralization is an open question, though indisputably having more mining participants means more decentralization.
9f9f0314c3c514c1…398e9338…2024-01-22 17:28:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-20#1031867 << unlikely that anyone's aboutta repeat the bch/et al escapade -- unless they can 'fix' the 'bug' where folx are able to dump the shitcoin in trade for actual coin
6c1879629f9f0314…9ea2d1a5…2024-01-22 17:31:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-20 17:15:49 billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-19#1031864 << oh neat, miners are gonna airdrop bidencoin for us to dump? keep me posted
1fd105b06c187962…9f9f0314…2024-01-22 17:29:41 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-20#1031869 << imho is elementarily, by definition, tru that it undermines decentralization. can debate 'how much', 'what's the practical effect', but not 'whether'
02ada53f1fd105b0…6c187962…2024-01-22 17:32:19 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-20 17:20:53 signpost: definitely the case that mining is a heavy industry now, not something an individual can meaningfully do. whether that undermines decentralization is an open question, though indisputably having more mining participants means more decentralization.
637b61fd02ada53f…1fd105b0…2024-01-22 17:31:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-20#1031871 << afaik no serious operator has yet even threatened to defect on e.g. segshit. so whoknows what other atrocity reich may be able to 'soft'-force 'consensus' for
9b11b133637b61fd…02ada53f…2024-01-22 17:34:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-20 17:23:23 signpost: (and at least the energy resources necessary to mine reside in multiple orwell-scale empires who have reason to defect on the matter of excluding transactions from blocks)
9da862349b11b133…637b61fd…2024-01-22 17:33:14 <asciilifeform> segshit went in and still sits because was a) ultimately +ev for the miners (moar tx fee) and b) there's no inexpensive way to set it on fire a la bch
039c57779da86234…9da86234…2024-01-22 17:41:53 <asciilifeform> consider for instance: instead (or even in addition) to dumping coin on the market to dampen exchrate, reich starts sending a 'phree' coin to erry miner who mines a block containing only 'kosher' tx. they've enuff to do this for 20y at least.
117bebf2039c5777…039c5777…2024-01-22 17:42:43 <asciilifeform> no bans/firing squads/paid stoolies/etc req'd. 0 meaningful 'resist', 'the market'(tm)(r) will be doing their work for'em.
6ddb8404117bebf2…117bebf2…2024-01-22 17:45:34 <asciilifeform> ('kosher' could mean anyffin at all, from 'not features any of these 11 we-think-putin-wallet addrs' to 'goes from Officially-registered to Officially-registered addr' to whatever)
da2de7196ddb8404…6ddb8404…2024-01-22 17:46:43 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-20#1031873 << if he actually though this (have link to where said?) it then aint clear to asciilifeform why he bothered to get involved
7ed26217da2de719…9b11b133…2024-01-22 17:49:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-20 17:24:34 signpost: (though if hal finney was in fact satoshi, he did see a day where bitcoin would only be held and transacted by banks, iirc, so there's reason for doubt)
1fae89827ed26217…da2de719…2024-01-22 17:47:16 <asciilifeform> seems like an admission of defeat prior to any shots
29724ffcf1785ea9…501ab87c…2024-01-22 17:47:39 <signpost> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2500.msg34211#msg34211
113a20ce6ca2cc0d…29724ffc…2024-01-22 17:47:55 <signpost> contrary to satoshi's "digital cash" indeed
00800dbc113a20ce…113a20ce…2024-01-22 17:48:07 <signpost> well, contrary to views espoused by a handle called satoshi
5237717300800dbc…00800dbc…2024-01-22 17:48:32 <signpost> could be same guy and he changed his mind, could be finney came in with his own opinions
2b00563052377173…6ca2cc0d…2024-01-22 17:50:24 <asciilifeform> the 'digital cash' thing was arguably an elementary arithmetic fail tho (given as errybody is stuck storing all tx 4evah, yer stuck with a reasonable limit as to their volume that is far below 'erry cup of tea')
9d4b19d62b005630…2b005630…2024-01-22 17:52:34 <asciilifeform> this was 1 of the key lulz in the bch story -- 'megablocks' would've given 'running a noad costs 5+figs/$/mo' -- hence why reich pushed megablox -- without remotely coming close to 'pay for erry tea cup with coin'
ab3ce7a99d4b19d6…9d4b19d6…2024-01-22 17:59:56 <asciilifeform> at any rate, the 'only banks' 'dystopia' arguably is already here. i.e. some large % of all coin is in lizard hands; and there's afaik ~no actual coin-denominated commerce b/w humans.
991054f1ab3ce7a9…ab3ce7a9…2024-01-22 18:03:32 <asciilifeform> most tx, asciilifeform suspects, already for long time has been 'human -> gox', and there it tends to stay
72a0f7d9991054f1…991054f1…2024-01-22 18:11:41 <asciilifeform> 1 interesting item -- cost of tx was even recently far too small, to the point that reich has organized a 2017-style 'stress test' (just like prev. go around, using shitcoins that feature liquishit storage in btc tx )
98257b7f72a0f7d9…72a0f7d9…2024-01-22 18:12:42 <asciilifeform> some of'em -- only spam mempool, and in fact cost the spammers nuffin; some -- actually mineable tx
ce98cb8198257b7f…98257b7f…2024-01-22 18:13:39 <asciilifeform> all of this coupled with a rerun of 2017 'see, it's far too crowded, wouldntcha like an alt that's moar of 'electric cash'(tm) !'
95d8106fce98cb81…ce98cb81…2024-01-22 18:20:34 <asciilifeform> to date, reich continues to succeed in making actual use of btc just painful enuff so that primary use continues to be 'hodl'.
7e65b06495d8106f…95d8106f…2024-01-22 18:21:31 <asciilifeform> creating this pain aint free, but they continue to not have any shortage of with what to pay for it.
71c56cf037684ad2…52377173…2024-01-24 21:09:31 <signpost> asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/BitwiseInvest/status/1750224060620111912 << one of the recent ETF launchers has published the address at which they store the corn.
d3e8419d71c56cf0…71c56cf0…2024-01-24 21:09:41 <signpost> not superior to self-custody, but if this becomes the standard between the address balance and the traditional finance side disclosures, one should be able to tell whether somebody's operating a fractional reserve scam.
29c874e4d3e8419d…d3e8419d…2024-01-24 21:09:54 <signpost> fuckers are even using a traditional 1-addy
c9feb42229c874e4…16125de1…2024-01-24 21:57:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: how does $user know what their net allocation sum is, tho ?
9f4cd7d729c874e4…b632cedc…2024-01-29 04:17:29 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-01-21#1115698 << nfi what copypaste had in mind dragging up reiser from the bottom of the barrel
c56d9f75c9feb422…c9feb422…2024-01-24 21:59:16 <asciilifeform> the pile of coin may be visible, but the set of open claims on it -- aint
1373a0b19f4cd7d7…9f4cd7d7…2024-01-29 04:20:03 <crtdaydreams> seems to effectively started a shitstorm and that's about it
a43e3258c56d9f75…c56d9f75…2024-01-24 22:01:37 <asciilifeform> at the risk of pedantry, it also aint incontrovertibly obvious, from asciilifeform's perch, who exactly controls the addr
edb8bb571373a0b1…9dbd84a6…2024-01-29 16:02:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-28#1031932 << fwiw asciilifeform still using reiser's fs in a buncha places and has no intention to stop
e87436e81373a0b1…1373a0b1…2024-01-29 22:07:25 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-29#1032465 << i had concluded this response was a troll, beyond efficient storage of a buncha small files it was just another fs. is there something I'm missing?
93b880c4a43e3258…a43e3258…2024-01-24 22:03:50 <asciilifeform> ( the named party could simply be 'standing in front of it', like reptilia (rip) stood in front of that bentley in helsinki )
0d958a8dedb8bb57…8a3b66cd…2024-01-29 16:05:03 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-28 23:15:53 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-01-21#1115698 << nfi what copypaste had in mind dragging up reiser from the bottom of the barrel
e0787b41e87436e8…e87436e8…2024-01-29 22:38:35 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2018-01-22#1774011 << this is something that's bothered me a little, asciilifeform. maybe you misunderstand? it doesn't have an alu because you're supposed to be able to implement it.
676e780193b880c4…93b880c4…2024-01-24 22:08:00 <asciilifeform> etf afaik effectively reduces to a gox where you can't withdraw coin (but can only sell to other users of same gox)
0d48677c0d958a8d…edb8bb57…2024-01-29 16:04:13 <asciilifeform> in ~15y+ -- 0 problems. asciilifeform doesn't give a nanoshit who reiser whacked with an axe.
2ea7b3e6e0787b41…04a64c90…2024-01-29 22:36:57 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-22 asciilifeform: scheme79 was a prototype, did not even have an alu!
c21afd732ea7b3e6…e0787b41…2024-01-29 22:42:08 <crtdaydreams> In chapter 3.3.4 of SICP they describe a "Simulator for Digital Circuits"
acf21c3fc21afd73…c21afd73…2024-01-29 23:00:00 <crtdaydreams> in the actual MIT lecture 5B Sussman states that it is how it's done.
0768165cc883c183…c883c183…2024-01-24 22:10:32 <asciilifeform> the coin per se may be present as claimed, but the only thing it can 'do' is to eventually be stolen (in addition to the fact that 'your' paper stake can also be 're-ownered' at any time, on orders from a usg official or similar)
6d3bf1e5500ff14f…eb100763…2024-01-29 17:40:04 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, a delish lul from these fine folx.
e801b85dacf21c3f…acf21c3f…2024-01-29 23:01:27 <crtdaydreams> The whole purpose of the scheme-79 chip was to demonstrate generational logic using an embedded language in lisp
9dbd84a60768165c…0768165c…2024-01-25 03:25:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-24#1031922 << meant here to say : 'bucket shop'. apologies if perplexed reader.
0ed703d16d3bf1e5…0d958a8d…2024-01-29 17:42:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-07-26 13:32:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|signpost]: signpost: matters, evidently, to the fella who too proud to write in re fg schems when 'i have no idea why was done this way' etc
02358635e801b85d…ccc7bd0a…2024-01-30 01:58:27 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-29#1031944 << consider: what do you, personally, expect from a file system ?
8a3b66cd9dbd84a6…7ed26217…2024-01-25 03:27:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-24 17:10:55 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: i.e. 'boiler room'
ccf1f2e10ed703d1…6d3bf1e5…2024-01-29 17:41:34 asciilifeform notsure whether this needs detailed commentary, beyond 'sleep of reason begets monsters'(tm)(r)
66e1466202358635…2ea7b3e6…2024-01-30 02:01:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-29 17:05:46 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-29#1032465 << i had concluded this response was a troll, beyond efficient storage of a buncha small files it was just another fs. is there something
ccc7bd0accf1f2e1…ccf1f2e1…2024-01-29 19:22:15 <asciilifeform> ... re: upstack, key oldthread on subj.
62d8937f66e14662…02358635…2024-01-30 01:59:19 <asciilifeform> it's an 'unsexy' item with 'unsexy' design goals -- reasonable speed under commonplace use cases, and reliability (incl. under damage). reiser -- delivered.
04a64c90ccc7bd0a…0ed703d1…2024-01-29 19:24:51 <bitbot> (trilema) 2016-02-21 asciilifeform: the fact that reiser was jailed cemented it as permanently high-quality, no one wants to touch it, no 'progressors' progressate at it, no gnomes, no popularizers!111, etc.
5a459f6862d8937f…62d8937f…2024-01-30 02:01:19 <asciilifeform> ... and the manner of his disappearance kept the apparently bug-free fs from suffering 'improvements' by idiots.
27f255e85a459f68…5a459f68…2024-01-30 02:02:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-29#1031945 << picture the performance characteristics of e.g. multiplier implemented 'from inside' that thing.
e4c4083f27f255e8…66e14662…2024-01-30 02:04:39 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-29 17:36:57 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2018-01-22#1774011 << this is something that's bothered me a little, asciilifeform. maybe you misunderstand? it doesn't have an alu because you're supposed to be able to implement it.
1b0ea99ce4c4083f…27f255e8…2024-01-30 02:04:11 <asciilifeform> (if actually added in iron, using s79 simply as layout language -- different conversation, naturally. but if implemented via the equiv. of church numerals -- ugh)
395c29421b0ea99c…e801b85d…2024-01-30 02:09:33 <crtdaydreams> it's possible to pipeline it, more importantly, verify the integrity of the implementation, perhaps not necissarily alu, but other items like hashing algos, symmetric encryption algos
1194586e5387c0b1…5387c0b1…2024-01-30 02:12:47 <crtdaydreams> I agree, ofc there would be far too much overhead without pipelining, implementation could fork output to a configurable bus for pipelining and to register for debugging and non mission-critical objectives
6fbce49fbeaff28a…beaff28a…2024-01-30 02:18:39 <crtdaydreams> https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA201258.pdf[s86 arch]
77aa40f6c1e3a650…c1e3a650…2024-01-30 02:22:29 <crtdaydreams> Parent doc listing everything in relation to daedalus and the scheme vlsi project as a whole, I can't find anything on PI (likely absorbed into NS), CMTPG or SCHEMA
5c46ddbe77aa40f6…77aa40f6…2024-01-30 02:23:27 <crtdaydreams> apparently even rms had his fair share of contributions to the project too
8ada67125c46ddbe…5c46ddbe…2024-01-30 02:25:03 <crtdaydreams> Many other familiar names, weste, knight, moon etc
eef412f08ada6712…1b0ea99c…2024-01-30 03:02:56 asciilifeform had actually read iirc all of the material linked above. tho it's been many yrs.
b348915beef412f0…eef412f0…2024-01-30 03:04:18 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: asciilifeform not says 'no point to s8x'. simply that it does not economically use whatever avail. silicon , and if baking it today one would want to depart from the original in certain predictable ways
a4b48db4b348915b…b348915b…2024-01-30 03:05:21 <asciilifeform> s8x is arguably analogous to the 'egyptian' algo collection in ffa. readable, 'elegant', but slow.
e22b5611a4b48db4…a4b48db4…2024-01-30 03:06:10 <asciilifeform> there are even cases where that's ~all~ you want.
f38d795be22b5611…e22b5611…2024-01-30 03:07:15 <asciilifeform> e.g. there are times where a 100sec (vs msec) rsa op is fine.
a9fb9105f38d795b…f38d795b…2024-01-30 03:09:04 <asciilifeform> the rub is that if you don't already know that your use case falls into this category -- the answer is rather likely to be 'nope'
e69203eba9fb9105…8ada6712…2024-01-30 03:14:09 <crtdaydreams> We can agree on that. Imo it's the best thing with out a $24e6 fab (that's how much it cost for s86!)
1408e8f7e69203eb…a9fb9105…2024-01-30 03:10:12 <asciilifeform> observe that the lispm people did not implement s8x. it is worth thinking about wainot
c618b49a1408e8f7…1408e8f7…2024-01-30 03:10:38 <asciilifeform> (and they weren't insisting on 'displaying lolcats' or the 200MB www sites of today, etc, either)
d3d8c38dc618b49a…e69203eb…2024-01-30 03:15:09 <crtdaydreams> sussman stated he ditched the scheme project because he wanted to pursue AI
883c3e1da06f5462…c618b49a…2024-01-30 03:11:34 <asciilifeform> they wanted e.g. fast routing ('ns' & co), which needs, among other things, reasonably efficient numerics
27a93c53883c3e1d…a06f5462…2024-01-30 03:16:09 <crtdaydreams> but knight, moon, holloway, et al evidently chose to build interlisp, zetalisp and derivatives therof because ^
f9b06f2953e0e5db…53e0e5db…2024-01-30 03:12:33 <asciilifeform> once yer actually trying to ~do~ sumthing with the lispm, suddenly it no longer suffices to 'here's existence proof, and if you wanna multiply, do it with church numerals'
fa4f182869d744bf…69d744bf…2024-01-30 03:17:47 <crtdaydreams> well bolix went away from integrated vlsi, I think there's still promise in generational hw
cfcbd690fa4f1828…f9b06f29…2024-01-30 03:13:44 <asciilifeform> the raw cost of fab is imho a red herring tho
8823791bcfcbd690…cfcbd690…2024-01-30 03:13:59 <asciilifeform> the problem aint the sticker price, but that there's no known way to recover it
7195b18a31eb35f8…8823791b…2024-01-30 03:14:18 <asciilifeform> (if you knew of one, could talk sumbody into fronting it, conceivably)
c36762a27195b18a…31eb35f8…2024-01-30 03:19:05 <crtdaydreams> best thing I can think of for basic scheme chip is teaching programming
6ced46e8693d8507…693d8507…2024-01-30 03:19:31 <crtdaydreams> pray that a new generation of competent programmers will work something out given a push in the right direction
e89160896ced46e8…7195b18a…2024-01-30 03:16:09 <asciilifeform> the orig lm folx conned pentagon into coughing up the dough. which worked all the way up to the point where better talkers came along and promised 'moar for the $'
ef64d1d3e8916089…e4c4083f…2024-01-30 03:18:46 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-12 asciilifeform: and if a ~better liar~ comes along, he will win, and you -- lose. the technical merits of the proj being ~irrelevant.
2b8dbdd5e8916089…6ced46e8…2024-01-30 03:20:27 <crtdaydreams> other applications conecievably could be generational ai, something like a morphological hardware neural net
c3cbd127ef64d1d3…ef64d1d3…2024-01-30 03:18:46 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-06-11 asciilifeform: the most grim lesson there imho is that the '80s lispm corps were funded in exactly same way. and once the 'better liars' came along with a 'sexier' spiel, the lispms kaput.
cae17720c3cbd127…2b8dbdd5…2024-01-30 03:21:27 <crtdaydreams> makes you wonder about nsas motivations for shunting attempts at ressurection, exhibit a being mallery
9950bc5ecae17720…e8916089…2024-01-30 03:17:16 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: the 'ai' aficionados seem to be interested exclusively in 'flops per $', which is wai they're doing it on gaming gpu
0589d9859950bc5e…9950bc5e…2024-01-30 03:17:37 <asciilifeform> any niche product inescapably loses on that param
3b01f7b00589d985…cae17720…2024-01-30 03:22:16 <crtdaydreams> reducing ai to a numbers game proves results tho
df9265fa3b01f7b0…0589d985…2024-01-30 03:19:53 asciilifeform recs linked thrd as a whole re 'where's lispm', imho covers key points
2672737fdf9265fa…c3cbd127…2024-01-30 03:22:30 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-08-12 asciilifeform: at same time, various vendors (e.g. franz, sold lisp for sun ws) pushed 'our margarine is just as good as real butter' scamola. and fooled enuff users to burn away what little of commercial market there was for lispm
bd84cbf02672737f…df9265fa…2024-01-30 03:22:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-29#1031996 << 'long game'
79e19798bd84cbf0…2672737f…2024-01-30 03:24:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-29 22:19:49 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: makes you wonder about nsas motivations for shunting attempts at ressurection, exhibit a being mallery
b0a4f45079e19798…79e19798…2024-01-30 03:24:49 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:53:58 asciilifeform[6]: ( starting with mallery, who 'i bought for $mil, but Worth Billions!' -- or alternatively, per asciilifeform's hypothesis, simply happy to sit on the whole thing for nsa & co. who not eager to see even toy example of cpu-and-os-sans-overflows rise from bottom of ocean )
575753a6b0a4f450…3b01f7b0…2024-01-30 03:27:09 <crtdaydreams> oughta collate all of this, not only for comprehension, but for future readers, I don't think we'll be getting that promised essay out of phf
b0417c5d575753a6…b0a4f450…2024-01-30 03:25:31 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-22 phf: scheme-79 is not "whole thing published", which is something that i said in the logs multiple times also. there's AI memoes of variying detali, but the actual toolset, something called daedalus, and the corresponding daedalus files that actually describe the chip, are nowhere to be found. also die
c1c218a8b0417c5d…bd84cbf0…2024-01-30 03:24:23 <asciilifeform> nsa et al are in the 'maintain perma-insecurity' biz, and not even need to do very much at all, the useful idiots do most of their work for'em
719d1756b0417c5d…245f8ce2…2024-01-30 03:28:07 <asciilifeform> their methods worked even on soviet bean counters, who didn't need much in the way of convincing to copy pdp11, so as to run (conventiently available) us warez, complete with exploitable defects
da5dfa60719d1756…719d1756…2024-01-30 03:29:11 <asciilifeform> fast-fwd to current-day ru, where 'elbrus' is a sparc (!) with x86 emulation mode (to conveniently run winblows warez, shit thee not) and whole thing in fact made in tw
3a8fed35da5dfa60…da5dfa60…2024-01-30 03:29:54 <asciilifeform> simply cuz that's the only approach to life that makes sense to a bean counter
f4b0b80e3a8fed35…575753a6…2024-01-30 03:35:57 <crtdaydreams> not exactly about to make an appeal to putin kek
49ebb9e8f4b0b80e…3a8fed35…2024-01-30 03:31:54 <asciilifeform> try selling any of these on the notion that software can be correct + comprehensible -- and will get same reaction as if said 'one can park tank up yer arse'
0cb5564c49ebb9e8…f4b0b80e…2024-01-30 03:37:59 <crtdaydreams> I'll posit tho that regardless of end goal being ns 2.0 there needs to be a somewhat more sane basis to build off
a86a07da0cb5564c…49ebb9e8…2024-01-30 03:34:07 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: point being, even folx who currently the loudest re 'sovereignty' and sticking it to the reich -- still stepping on same rake they've been jumping up and down on since ~1970, without interruption, and then seem surprised when their irons fail in various convenient (for reich) ways
9ddfd1c10cb5564c…0cb5564c…2024-01-30 03:38:20 <crtdaydreams> anything more sane than above .ru 'elbrus'
b38ffc499ddfd1c1…a86a07da…2024-01-30 03:35:12 <asciilifeform> nobody's aboutta 'sane foundations' because the payoff for it (and that's if you somehow get hold of people who will actually do the job, rather than convert the dough into yachts) is on order of 30-40yrs
d488fcf0b38ffc49…b38ffc49…2024-01-30 03:35:28 <asciilifeform> and current-day mandarins don't think on that time scale
7180be85d488fcf0…9ddfd1c1…2024-01-30 03:41:17 <crtdaydreams> so what, wait for the tower to topple from complexity?
94f40fbc70881c27…7180be85…2024-01-30 03:42:07 <crtdaydreams> or is french renaissance flavour needed 'behead the royalty'
6f4fe04394f40fbc…70881c27…2024-01-30 03:38:57 <asciilifeform> nfi what concretely 'needed' in this sense. historically 'tower falls' results in smaller towers built from the pieces of the old, along same idiot pattern that sank the original
d0394b076f4fe043…94f40fbc…2024-01-30 03:43:38 <crtdaydreams> neh, don't underestimate the capacity for people to pile shit on shit, instead of digging another whole simply build a taller tower
96bbde0212f94132…12f94132…2024-01-30 03:47:17 <crtdaydreams> only other approach I can think of is a '1:40' a la davis, 1 man 40 years
c9cd33b427155466…cfd587d5…2024-01-30 18:12:32 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-29#1032027 << getting weird out there
72d0b6b4c9cd33b4…b0417c5d…2024-01-30 18:11:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-29 23:46:40 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost]: ... meanwhile, a lul for signpost .
335f9c666822af2b…6822af2b…2024-01-30 21:52:25 <crtdaydreams> did anyone ever have the keys to qntra?
0ce33e5472d0b6b4…29c874e4…2024-01-30 18:14:10 <signpost> lol! waiting patiently for razor wire on the east, west, and north borders.
b8c579eaeb70011a…eb70011a…2024-01-30 18:18:32 <signpost> billymg: what writers like this miss is that poor e.g. venezuelan families serve as fine cover for the military-aged young men
02653fffb8c579ea…b8c579ea…2024-01-30 18:19:33 <signpost> it's not one or the other. cause a huge flood of poor beobles, plant your killers in the midst.
7ae1cc5c02653fff…c9cd33b4…2024-01-30 18:23:49 <billymg> signpost: right, i thought that was exactly the point he was making
cdecbada7ae1cc5c…02653fff…2024-01-30 18:20:30 <signpost> > The picture below doesn’t show any poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free. It’s a well-funded army of mercenaries that only lacks weapons and orders to take action.
1110225b5afc5988…cdecbada…2024-01-30 18:20:45 <signpost> I'm commenting on how everyone tries to make the part of the thing they care about the only part these days.
cb59d491a97f7f78…8354584a…2024-01-30 18:21:05 <signpost> I understand you realize this but am commenting on the article itself
3508dc8f27661eaf…27661eaf…2024-01-30 18:25:29 <billymg> personally i think the poor beobles can also fuck off back to their own side, good intentions or no
5e7c06c43508dc8f…cb59d491…2024-01-30 18:21:57 <signpost> airstrike anyone who crosses the border and it will stop immediately.
c37e6106472b341f…8d157e67…2024-01-30 18:23:29 <signpost> no different than splattering a home intruder's brains against my ceiling without first asking how hard their life has been
2de0925dc37e6106…c37e6106…2024-01-30 18:24:07 signpost curious whether abbott will nut up and deport *feds* from texas, but not holding breath
2d6c7adb2de0925d…2de0925d…2024-01-30 18:24:31 <signpost> detain all DHS agents and bus their asses to california
a4a12bcd2d6c7adb…2d6c7adb…2024-01-30 18:25:07 <signpost> anyway how goes it in your part of the world billymg?
2aa3b003a4a12bcd…472b341f…2024-01-30 18:40:13 <billymg> signpost: still plodding along, but there is some recent news: i've now joined the signpost, PeterL, and awt club with a new baby boy, born january 5th here in costa rica
4354ece52aa3b003…2aa3b003…2024-01-30 18:40:37 <billymg> so been adjusting to that (they're very time consuming)
381ef8724354ece5…a4a12bcd…2024-01-30 18:37:33 <signpost> congrats! planet needs more kids raised well, very happy for your family.
fe59827c46e1ece0…46e1ece0…2024-01-30 18:59:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-30#1032030 << obv q is, is episode finally 'independent texistan' or simply circus for election
208239bafe59827c…72d0b6b4…2024-01-30 19:02:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-30 13:16:45 signpost: lol! waiting patiently for razor wire on the east, west, and north borders.
4f9aa7a6208239ba…381ef872…2024-01-30 19:01:42 <signpost> they'd need to beef up the state military substantially. couldn't even defend against mexico currently. people larp about texas having a large one for a US state, but it ain't shit when measured against countries.
d1915ca3b7be9e55…b7be9e55…2024-01-30 19:02:43 <signpost> would sooner expect that I end up in el salvador in 5-10yrs if they keep it up.
19b02c3dd1915ca3…fe59827c…2024-01-30 19:02:53 <asciilifeform> afaik the only plausible path to texistan is if finally standoff with reich regular army and some % of the latter defects
55f54e3919b02c3d…d1915ca3…2024-01-30 19:03:38 <signpost> yep, in context of a huge economic bust or similar devolutionary crisis
cc4f6a70efdea6d3…55f54e39…2024-01-30 19:04:32 <signpost> bust-ish, but feds apparently still somewhat operational. I'd expect more loss of general order required for texas to break free without an immediate us.mil occupation
c04c6f21cc4f6a70…efdea6d3…2024-01-30 19:05:24 <asciilifeform> variant where 'occupants -- out, or we torch the wells' would be interesting
60033389e5a676dd…e5a676dd…2024-01-30 19:06:00 <signpost> current texan ruling class is not imaginative enough to e.g. start settling business in the port of houston in bitcoin
904cff1f60033389…c04c6f21…2024-01-30 19:06:58 <asciilifeform> q is whether there even is a meaningful 'tx ruling class' entity
b63aeeb7bdba6bbd…bdba6bbd…2024-01-30 23:27:59 <asciilifeform> whole thing is mirrored if yer looking for sumthing in particular
51ec5cf8b63aeeb7…fb6460bd…2024-01-31 00:23:41 <crtdaydreams> I meant for domain, doesn't really matter.
ae7af0bf9ca03e38…9ca03e38…2024-01-31 00:24:27 <crtdaydreams> it was ahead of it's time all things considered
28851d5eae7af0bf…f6f69570…2024-01-31 03:53:04 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Not sure if already posted: https://aaronrogier.net/blog/2023/a-recap-of-my-2023-so-far-in-health-and-its-opposite/
ec6b835328851d5e…b63aeeb7…2024-01-31 16:23:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-30#1032076 << who'd do it, for whom, and why ?
37f3e87cec6b8353…208239ba…2024-01-31 16:26:36 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-30 19:22:23 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: It would be good if we had a qntra 2.0
ae08c12a37f3e87c…ec6b8353…2024-01-31 16:25:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-30#1032078 << leave him a comment with a link to that guest bridge ?
353b2f61ae08c12a…37f3e87c…2024-01-31 16:28:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-30 22:55:42 discord_bridge[signpost]: (awtho) Not sure if already posted: https://aaronrogier.net/blog/2023/a-recap-of-my-2023-so-far-in-health-and-its-opposite/
c2ab01df353b2f61…526d39b0…2024-01-31 17:49:43 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032079 << myeah, it was the paper of record for a polity that never reached adulthood
15aecbe4c2ab01df…353b2f61…2024-01-31 17:52:18 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-31 11:26:36 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-30#1032076 << who'd do it, for whom, and why ?
2d6e505215aecbe4…c2ab01df…2024-01-31 17:50:33 <signpost> and fucking a, hope bb's health is improving
044640b72d6e5052…2d6e5052…2024-01-31 17:52:18 signpost has had progressively worse celiacs, kicked bread and relateds. the pesticide-soaked slop finally got me. health mysteries are a bitch.
b6d5d178b5e084a8…ae08c12a…2024-01-31 19:20:40 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032083 << it aint that it wouldn't be great to have a sane news www. however same problem there as with other 'nice things' that no can haz.
578bf546b5e084a8…ae7af0bf…2024-02-01 03:30:04 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-31#1032627 << good point, I wouldn't say I'm either, but frankly it doesn't need to be associated with the corpse of tmsr, just something similar actually bringing meaningful insight and interesting news
dd77a013b6d5d178…15aecbe4…2024-01-31 19:23:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-31 12:52:18 signpost: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032079 << myeah, it was the paper of record for a polity that never reached adulthood
66350ce1578bf546…578bf546…2024-02-01 03:30:28 <crtdaydreams> by interesting news, like, a conversation starter
5d430ef5dd77a013…dd77a013…2024-01-31 19:23:17 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-29 22:16:35 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: the problem aint the sticker price, but that there's no known way to recover it
0f30190d66350ce1…66350ce1…2024-02-01 03:31:09 <crtdaydreams> place is a ghost town most days, not due to merely idle but lack of any meaningful ideas that haven't already been espoused in the logs
80f1443f5d430ef5…b6d5d178…2024-01-31 19:24:13 <asciilifeform> i.e., who'd do it? take yer pick a) fanatic b) grifter
bcc2eb860f30190d…0f30190d…2024-02-01 03:32:43 <crtdaydreams> like a potential article I've mused over would be the fact that most of the active russians in the ukr meat grinder are not actually ~russian~ but tuvan, not seen any mention of such anywhere
dcfa1c77bcc2eb86…bcc2eb86…2024-02-01 03:37:23 <crtdaydreams> most might be an overstatement, but definitely a significant number
404f49ed7c319b94…7c319b94…2024-01-31 19:24:40 <asciilifeform> and grifters interesting only from entomological pov imho.
7c9c21b3dcfa1c77…dcfa1c77…2024-02-01 03:43:02 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-31#1032615 << there is definitely a growing audience of disillusioned millenials hitting their mid 30s and falling into algorithm-fed conspiracy theory rabbit holes, there would be an educated few seeking critical and relevant information other than "aliens built pyramids!!11"
b63da1b9404f49ed…5d430ef5…2024-01-31 19:27:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-06-02 14:44:38 phf[4]: and of course for every pat there's grifters with million views doing southern twang and cowboy getup larping for the off the grid aspirational crowd
123f067c7c9c21b3…404f49ed…2024-02-01 14:53:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032098 << wheredja get this notion ?
f8f12ac07c9c21b3…7c9c21b3…2024-02-02 03:28:46 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-02-01#1032639 << tuva is basically the shithole of .ru, and frankly planet3, ukr campaign is exclusively run on "volunteers" aka broke ~25-35yo tuvans promised marginally above bare minimum pay, not left with "other choice" there is no industry beyond drugs
98281c6d123f067c…b63da1b9…2024-02-01 14:56:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-31 22:31:02 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: like a potential article I've mused over would be the fact that most of the active russians in the ukr meat grinder are not actually ~russian~ but tuvan, not seen any mention of such anywhere
24e76e8bf8f12ac0…2f26ba56…2024-02-02 16:13:29 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: i'ma ask again, where'd you get this notion?
312e449c98281c6d…123f067c…2024-02-01 14:54:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032095 << wai then reuse the name? if you've the juice, start a new www
b8dd86e424e76e8b…24e76e8b…2024-02-02 16:14:20 <asciilifeform> ( for instance, anyone who has slightest interest knows that in ru -- similarly to usa -- absolutely errywhere that's a considerable distance from major city is abject shithole. )
a2e441ca312e449c…98281c6d…2024-02-01 14:57:08 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-31 22:28:23 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-31#1032627 << good point, I wouldn't say I'm either, but frankly it doesn't need to be associated with the corpse of tmsr, just something similar actually bringing meaningful insight and interesting news
f0b9e52eb8dd86e4…b8dd86e4…2024-02-02 16:14:50 <asciilifeform> and, for instance, that contract soldiers there get considerably > 'min pay'
6dd24735a2e441ca…312e449c…2024-02-01 14:55:32 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-01-31#1032100 << audience -- not the hard part.
435d8c01f0b9e52e…44ed47a4…2024-02-02 17:10:18 <awt_akris> pest://teCEqHGMS5ftaGWMrSC4R4Xf7u4KnvgkXmXxFx20qiA= << I've been dealing with some gut inflamation. Currently trying red light therapy with the theory that it will reduce inflamation and relieve symptoms. Seems to be helping but hard to say for sure.
9313fb1f6dd24735…a2e441ca…2024-02-01 14:58:13 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-31 22:41:21 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-31#1032615 << there is definitely a growing audience of disillusioned millenials hitting their mid 30s and falling into algorithm-fed conspiracy theory rabbit holes, there would be an educated few seeking critical an
97b1b21b435d8c01…f0b9e52e…2024-02-02 18:40:50 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: red light ? how does one get it into gut ? (endoscope?)
0b24440e77aa1d18…97b1b21b…2024-02-02 19:43:36 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: the kind with led through finger? used
ea230e240b24440e…28851d5e…2024-02-02 19:47:49 <discord_bridge> (awtho) https://platinumtherapylights.com/products/biomax-rlt?variant=15666979340354 << works sort of like that but much more powerful
47732ca3888a62a4…7308e477…2024-02-06 01:13:01 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. lulz. (if qntra were alive, would make for primo piece...)
873f9baa47732ca3…47732ca3…2024-02-06 01:13:27 <asciilifeform> 'All glibc versions from at least September 1992 (glibc 1.04) to the current release ... affected' etc
2fc973dc873f9baa…873f9baa…2024-02-06 01:14:01 <asciilifeform> '...memory corruption in the GNU C Library through the qsort function is invoked by an application passing a non-transitive comparison function...'
938dfe372fc973dc…2fc973dc…2024-02-06 01:19:00 <asciilifeform> nsa fungiculture -- 'gift that keeps giving'(tm) and goes back to dawn of opensores (as amply documented in l0gz)
d5a19181ddce8033…ddce8033…2024-02-08 16:15:19 unpx is reading ``How Not to Network a Nation - The uneasy History of the Soviet Internet''
475d8bc0e598e892…e598e892…2024-02-09 14:51:34 <billymg> vex: yeah, drew that same line on my chart back in june and haven't touched it: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-20#1031691
390aec41475d8bc0…9313fb1f…2024-02-09 14:50:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-20 09:39:31 billymg: a line drawn back in june
7046bb81390aec41…475d8bc0…2024-02-09 14:53:13 <billymg> price for the last 3+ months has been following it pretty closely (can also note that when the price crosses the line, up or down, it creates some extra momentum whatever direction it's moving)
93f410007046bb81…7046bb81…2024-02-09 14:54:05 <billymg> again, no idea why it does this, but i suspect it's the tape painters. and no i don't think it has any predictive value, it's just fun (for me) to watch
503eea642488b9ea…b5e084a8…2024-02-13 19:44:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-09#1032142 << https://www.tradingview.com/x/428EE6hb/
ba3dbb7a503eea64…390aec41…2024-02-13 19:47:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-09 09:52:46 billymg: again, no idea why it does this, but i suspect it's the tape painters. and no i don't think it has any predictive value, it's just fun (for me) to watch
22826c20ba3dbb7a…503eea64…2024-02-13 19:46:02 <signpost> I replied earlier but for w/e reason it didn't send.
7b4a87aea3cd21eb…22826c20…2024-02-13 19:46:50 <signpost> still looks to me like the amount of hash-power necessary to expend per bitcoin is (by definition) what determines the price floor.
618ac99476946a50…a3cd21eb…2024-02-13 19:47:59 <asciilifeform> cost in saecular dough, rather than raw amt per se, determines floor
970b2c79618ac994…618ac994…2024-02-13 19:49:22 asciilifeform wonders, as did ~decade ago, at what pt the +ev thing becomes sabotage of competing mines, vs. adding capacity
918fedca970b2c79…76946a50…2024-02-13 19:49:49 <signpost> mhm. though with the difficulty ratchet, in the long run margin should be falling to near-zero
d6d614bc918fedca…918fedca…2024-02-13 19:51:38 <signpost> asciilifeform yeah, the thing necessarily having a huge heat signature doesn't help either.
7b142958d6d614bc…d6d614bc…2024-02-13 19:52:16 <signpost> maybe we get to see btc in wartime, would be interesting.
e267fc077b142958…970b2c79…2024-02-13 19:52:36 <asciilifeform> only necessarily huge if, as now, the irons are concentrated
b82986eae267fc07…7b142958…2024-02-13 19:53:33 <signpost> dorsey has made noise about putting mining hardware in his Square devices, no idea if/where that landed
dca3f3d775937294…75937294…2024-02-13 19:54:11 <asciilifeform> signpost: afaik 100% of claims to do anyffin of the sort, to date, were empty threats
95f276cfdca3f3d7…b82986ea…2024-02-13 19:54:51 <signpost> subj of threats, I watched the putin interview yest.
53ea6bee95f276cf…95f276cf…2024-02-13 19:55:05 <signpost> no new information for anyone with a pulse, but mildly entertaining
96c9b07ac06ec3ec…dca3f3d7…2024-02-13 19:55:43 <asciilifeform> the translation to eng was terrifyingly poor
8061c7a996c9b07a…c06ec3ec…2024-02-13 19:55:47 <signpost> his incredulity at our seppuku went on like that for a bit
47c89ac45c98b471…5c98b471…2024-02-13 19:56:07 <signpost> curious your thoughts given you didn't need transl
1c52686602e8e34c…47c89ac4…2024-02-13 19:56:53 <signpost> maybe wasn't for "us" so much as "look, I tried with these people"
defd86b31c526866…02e8e34c…2024-02-13 19:57:20 <asciilifeform> signpost: there wasn't any surprise in the thing from asciilifeform's pov. ^ was likely it. thing was in some ways soft-pedalled, also
180d75bddefd86b3…defd86b3…2024-02-13 19:58:44 <asciilifeform> d00d asked 'why not started in '14' and p gave 'diplomatic' answ ('we tried peace talks' etc) but not the obv 1 he featured in earlier speeches ('actually we weren't ready in '14 for reich bank boycott etc')
f7726a60180d75bd…1c526866…2024-02-13 19:59:51 <signpost> skipped over plenty, wasn't (of course) a real history lesson.
68270684f7726a60…f7726a60…2024-02-13 20:00:20 <signpost> "I am the rightful leader of all slavs", "you are already dead"
453240dc68270684…68270684…2024-02-13 20:00:38 <signpost> "and I tried with you, so remember that when you choke on own blood"
946c28d1ea6856a1…180d75bd…2024-02-13 20:01:34 <asciilifeform> was largely replay of earlier statements
bc2ac439946c28d1…946c28d1…2024-02-13 20:02:14 <asciilifeform> btw whole thing is in, what, 8 languages, on his www, so the curious not actually need to watch the films
5d1a5217af1868da…af1868da…2024-02-14 07:26:53 <crtdaydreams> something tells me they won't be boycotting shorts
aee5d767bc2ac439…bc2ac439…2024-02-13 20:17:10 <asciilifeform> further oldthrd in re 'heat of miners' ftr.
7dfaf1f9aee5d767…ba3dbb7a…2024-02-13 20:19:51 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-16 asciilifeform: trinque: in point of fact, could easily hide the mines. that one can read about massive racks full of identical chinesium in operation somewhere, is neither here nor there. yes it is cheaper to operate if you dun have to hide, rather than having to disguise the boxen as cable tv de
e77ccd3420707e54…20707e54…2024-02-25 09:32:59 <crtdaydreams> i managed to get in contact with sussman
bac130187dfaf1f9…aee5d767…2024-02-13 20:18:31 <asciilifeform> reich is helping (tho at much moar leisurely pace than asciilifeform originally predicted) to make 'coffee warmer miner' a reality (in e.g. ny, bans on mining farms, even when operated by private hydro plant, and similar recent lulz)
52a3cb7bed9cbb84…45b2fa04…2024-02-14 15:53:19 <asciilifeform> crtdaydreams: the reiser 'boycott' had 0 to do, at its root, with 'ohnoez he axed wife'. it was part of the de-individualization gotterdammerung of opensores, where faceless corp-sponsored 'Official' projects displaced those of actual-person works
67922d3be77ccd34…e77ccd34…2024-02-25 09:33:34 <crtdaydreams> apparently there are no restrictions on the scheme chip
2e416f77bac13018…bac13018…2024-02-13 21:01:08 <asciilifeform> algo for 'coffee miner' is imho obv. and iirc restated at least coupla times in l0gz;
d61525e567922d3b…67922d3b…2024-02-25 09:34:12 <crtdaydreams> however upon further inquiry about src, softs, notes, memos etc. dead comms
95e7c9012e416f77…2e416f77…2024-02-13 21:02:51 <asciilifeform> rsa pubkey of operator baked into mask rom. box (sold for cost of shipping) accepts strictly signed work turds and emits outputs (if found magick nonce) rsa'd to $key.
7e9f8f7d5dbcc3b7…5dbcc3b7…2024-02-14 15:54:47 <asciilifeform> the perps give 0 shit, 1 way or the other, when some faceless slave on a google galley axes wife etc
63dcf30f95e7c901…95e7c901…2024-02-13 21:03:22 <asciilifeform> boxes communicate over the equiv. of a pestnet, somewhere on which the operator sits.
78d9febe7e9f8f7d…7e9f8f7d…2024-02-14 15:55:59 <asciilifeform> (these regularly 'psycho' when their nerves give out, sweating in 'up or out promotion' hell, working 14h days, trying to live to see options vest, and so forth, it aint even national news when they do, typically)
b52dd56d63dcf30f…63dcf30f…2024-02-13 21:04:07 <asciilifeform> the latter distributes block reward, when such exists, via some combo of the usual 'pool' system and 'lotto' (where reward goes to one lucky host).
f6ec39bc78d9febe…ea6856a1…2024-02-14 17:38:03 <signpost> ^ perfectly accurate description of the one that ate my last co
faf880e7b52dd56d…b52dd56d…2024-02-13 21:05:16 <asciilifeform> for bonus points, make the thing occasionally attempt to mine a segshit-destroyer block, and make known that if found and 'wins war', the spoils are to be shared with the hosts.
8f726a6afaf880e7…faf880e7…2024-02-13 21:07:13 asciilifeform not knows wai no such thing afaik baked to date; can only conclude that political climate aint yet remotely hostile enuff to centralized miners. and/or nobody with half a brain in fact yet has access to the req'd fab capacity to try 'toaster' approach.
2eb44c66b6a3ced0…b6a3ced0…2024-02-14 17:39:13 <signpost> encouragement was "oh but in one more level you'll be the guy imposing 14hr days on others!"
10022adc8f726a6a…8f726a6a…2024-02-13 21:09:56 <asciilifeform> if ^ done correctly, erryone who currently owns e.g. space heater, will throw it out and replace with subj.
3fdb6e852eb44c66…2eb44c66…2024-02-14 17:39:40 <signpost> on items that are likely to be shuttered unceremoniously no less, adding to the theater of it all.
91d0ce3e10022adc…10022adc…2024-02-13 21:10:43 <asciilifeform> (iirc mp contemplated 'water heater miner' in '14, tho not said precisely how. above -- is how.)
90bf9b913fdb6e85…3fdb6e85…2024-02-14 17:40:01 <signpost> and in other news, new psyop about to drop.
9031b98d91d0ce3e…91d0ce3e…2024-02-13 21:11:46 <asciilifeform> let the hosts supply the req'd joules. (and do their own arithmetic re whether +ev. and if you own a space heater, this'll always be +ev, standard space heater does not mine...)
50c2fc9b9031b98d…9031b98d…2024-02-13 21:12:26 <asciilifeform> the tricky bit is to make supplying the irons -- ideally, at cost -- +ev for vendor.
41c5eaa63b2cf15d…90bf9b91…2024-02-14 17:41:29 <signpost> rumor mills are on about a "highly destabilizing" and "new" russian capability
583c6c9c50c2fc9b…50c2fc9b…2024-02-13 21:14:24 <asciilifeform> (other -- formerly tricky -- bit: to make electrically 'cheating' the box -ev. but asciilifeform conveniently made this easy, published constant-current rsa algo...)
7193dfe7583c6c9c…583c6c9c…2024-02-13 21:20:11 <asciilifeform> goes almost without saying, that whole mechanism gotta sit on 1 die.
0082fe74eda1dfbd…eda1dfbd…2024-02-14 17:42:08 <signpost> inb4 "uh we just realized that poseidon is for putting out the fires started by hypersonic icbm nukes"
991483d67193dfe7…7193dfe7…2024-02-13 21:21:00 <asciilifeform> if you use 'generic' miner + whatever external crapola, folx will simply pick the units apart to get at the former.
05bff6b5991483d6…991483d6…2024-02-13 21:22:34 <asciilifeform> (picking at ~the die~ can be safely considered to cost > the expected lifetime ev of a unit -- again, if built correctly)
1e06b85f05bff6b5…05bff6b5…2024-02-13 21:23:41 <asciilifeform> anyways ^ is sufficient recipe, if sumbody actually has the courage...
6670c724cd6c50c9…cd6c50c9…2024-02-14 17:45:07 <signpost> https://twitter.com/DRBoguslaw/status/1757818034427662596 << "the intercept" propagandist in re: space weapon
fc7a2f881e06b85f…1e06b85f…2024-02-13 21:34:20 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-13#1032184 << on further thought, the part re output can be safely omitted...
9ef083296670c724…6670c724…2024-02-14 17:45:40 <signpost> these would go back to the 60s I'd have to believe.
edf98591fc7a2f88…7dfaf1f9…2024-02-13 21:37:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-13 16:05:31 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel|billymg]: rsa pubkey of operator baked into mask rom. box (sold for cost of shipping) accepts strictly signed work turds and emits outputs (if found magick nonce) rsa'd to $key.
730c29968dbc8d64…8dbc8d64…2024-02-14 17:50:01 signpost would barely be able to contain his boner if it turns out the "UAP" items are a superior country having cracked gravity manip.
a0311cb08dbc8d64…c7eed0f6…2024-02-14 17:50:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: coupla obv problems with these (nuke not keeps like ammo spam can, reqs periodic maintenance; items in orbit follow predictable trajectories, easily dinged, incl. by rubbish; moving into position can take day+; etc)
45b2fa049e0ddcf1…9e0ddcf1…2024-02-13 23:50:13 <asciilifeform> ... in further thought, for miner above, vendor would need to charge at least enuff so that nobody decides to use'em for boat anchors / gold reclamation / similar.
719677006ba06e18…a0311cb0…2024-02-14 17:52:36 <asciilifeform> modern man dreams of being finished off with wunderwaffen, but condemned instead to die of boredom.
be1d1e2471967700…71967700…2024-02-14 20:09:05 <asciilifeform> signpost: perinently, renewal of infamous 'section 702' is going atm. hence 'omfg wunderwaffen threat' etc
5332af1b7fea1178…7fea1178…2024-02-14 20:09:49 <asciilifeform> ( for non-usa folx -- '702' == dictatorial powers for nsa, circa bush II )
670967e0330abcdb…330abcdb…2024-02-15 16:48:27 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-13#1032163 << was fun to watch
c80fb25d670967e0…edf98591…2024-02-15 16:47:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-13 14:57:29 signpost: subj of threats, I watched the putin interview yest.
f2aeb6709a944481…9a944481…2024-02-15 16:56:39 <billymg> apparently this is old news but don't see it in the logs, el salvador charging travelers from india and africa $1000 "airport improvement fee"
41f7f900f2aeb670…d3598245…2024-02-15 16:57:53 <asciilifeform> billymg: reminiscent of the (long gone, but existed when asciilifeform went) 'us passport tax' of argentina
9e3c02ee41f7f900…41f7f900…2024-02-15 16:58:46 <asciilifeform> in the latter case, at least knew why (it was a fuckyou in re us refusal to sign a visa-free treaty with subj)
df827b6b82f0788c…82f0788c…2024-02-15 17:51:34 signpost planning to visit el salvador sometime, maybe this year
4b2ee439e22bc874…44e8de19…2024-02-15 18:57:37 <signpost> bukele seems to be doing a good job either of propagandizing el salvador as a budding singapore, actually doing it, or both.
091cdf605a49f6cc…e22bc874…2024-02-15 18:58:06 asciilifeform wonders how many m^2 of salvador 1btc buys
a97444ed091cdf60…091cdf60…2024-02-15 18:58:54 <asciilifeform> iirc it's purpurtedly a kind of slovenia in re btc
a96b5e7ba97444ed…5a49f6cc…2024-02-15 19:00:47 <signpost> yep, lots of preferential treatment announced for btc holders and techbros
c2683e7fa96b5e7b…a97444ed…2024-02-15 19:01:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: if you go there, plz do post
b9ea3fd5b8740bc3…c2683e7f…2024-02-15 19:01:18 asciilifeform not been there, and not knows anyone who has
59c12d05b9ea3fd5…b8740bc3…2024-02-15 19:01:38 <signpost> billymg: you made it there yet? I don't recall.
93361cd359c12d05…b9ea3fd5…2024-02-15 19:02:18 asciilifeform also curious re what's in slovenia, has difficulty picturing untaxed-btc zone somehow surviving in the middle of darkest eureich
506c4a0793361cd3…59c12d05…2024-02-15 19:04:04 <signpost> we actually get a proper halving out of btc again and I'm likely to shop in earnest for an exit
4c5098703ce07327…3ce07327…2024-02-15 19:04:44 signpost has kid now, will otherwise someday ask what was wrong with my head, and what will I say.
3d4c8b9899c2c8ea…99c2c8ea…2024-02-15 19:31:44 <awt_akris> met with a guy helping out with immigration
40cccb42a2dd3d05…f2aeb670…2024-02-15 21:13:15 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-15#1032247 << i recently found out singapore is based as hell, afaik the most expensive citizenship for sale in the world. zero tolerance for niggers, including, based on the bar they set for residency, yours truly
e5e0621d40cccb42…c80fb25d…2024-02-15 21:11:48 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-15 14:00:16 signpost: bukele seems to be doing a good job either of propagandizing el salvador as a budding singapore, actually doing it, or both.
16a73a71e5e0621d…6b096b31…2024-02-15 21:09:53 <signpost> yup, isn't it something like a 20mil investment to get into singapore?
090c0b2b16a73a71…40cccb42…2024-02-15 21:14:02 <billymg> so if el salvador ends up becoming the central american version of that, would be great to get in on the ground floor
e0207bc24cf2407f…090c0b2b…2024-02-15 21:15:56 <billymg> signpost: yeah, something like that, but not just "here's the 20 mil", it's gotta be in the form of a company that employs x number of people, etc.
72b54989e0207bc2…e0207bc2…2024-02-15 21:16:16 <billymg> https://www.henleyglobal.com/residence-investment/singapore
b7aecc2972b54989…72b54989…2024-02-15 21:17:17 <billymg> ah, i guess there is a more direct, just the investment option as well
f74f4c71b7aecc29…b7aecc29…2024-02-15 21:18:50 <billymg> signpost: not been to el salvador yet myself but i am following with interest
c2bbf632f74f4c71…f74f4c71…2024-02-15 21:20:48 <billymg> costa rica in the past year has had a significant uptick in narco crime and violence. also keeping an eye on that and how the government here responds
3befbeacc2bbf632…c2bbf632…2024-02-15 21:21:31 <billymg> people and politicians here apparently point to el salvador and call for cr to do the same
5e34f8e73befbeac…f9c50123…2024-02-15 21:17:46 <asciilifeform> if you've 20e6$ to burn on a banana passport, yer prolly fine even in the darkest heart of the reich
bce937ef5e34f8e7…4cf2407f…2024-02-15 21:19:10 signpost fully supportive of basedreich stacking thugs like sardines for life.
e9711e2abce937ef…bce937ef…2024-02-15 21:20:12 <signpost> CR was friendly but iirc doesn't have enough boots and guns to hold their territory if there were a serious problem.
002a0928e9711e2a…e9711e2a…2024-02-15 21:21:53 <signpost> unclear what's ahead for latin america as a whole if things really churn.
678c2a1e002a0928…5e34f8e7…2024-02-15 21:21:56 <asciilifeform> signpost: even if you posit that no one wants the territory (afaik there aint anyffin valuable there), when reich kaput, erryone there will be living on bananas, in straw huts, at some pt
dd5699cd678c2a1e…002a0928…2024-02-15 21:22:15 <signpost> this, and ass-up for whomever wants the resources
dfd12998dd5699cd…dd5699cd…2024-02-15 21:23:17 <signpost> venezuela and essequibo probably foreshadows.
b0abb6a095a13f6a…678c2a1e…2024-02-15 21:25:23 <asciilifeform> ww3 aside, iirc cr not even comes close to the 'live like king on what'd be catfood pension in usa' line
49784430b0abb6a0…b0abb6a0…2024-02-15 21:25:38 <asciilifeform> so asciilifeform not knows what is the appeal
95d5c49f49784430…49784430…2024-02-15 21:26:38 <asciilifeform> if yer in cr, salvador, panama, etc. and usg has 'questions' for you, you're packaged in a crate and shipped on 1st flight next morning, for instance
d36bf52795d5c49f…95a13f6a…2024-02-15 21:26:59 <signpost> I mean, if abbott makes good on his grunts in re: abolishment of property tax I might have to ride TX into the dirt on principle.
533f2be3ce7e945a…d36bf527…2024-02-15 21:27:50 <signpost> existing business income tax (franchise tax) is booming
e6b499acda065aaa…533f2be3…2024-02-15 21:30:15 signpost shelved the new hampshire idea after spending some time there.
19df544ee6b499ac…e6b499ac…2024-02-15 21:31:37 <signpost> does not seem to me that the small number of libertarians who moved there are making a significant impact compared to the cucks coming from massachusetts and other surrounding shitholes.
ec3dac3019df544e…3befbeac…2024-02-15 21:36:25 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-15#1032286 << if the reich weakens and has to cede territory (in the abstract sense, such as political relations that allow for crate shipping of persons of interest), what do they give up first? cr, el salvador, and tx? or virginia
c3177153ec3dac30…e5e0621d…2024-02-15 21:34:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-15 16:29:19 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: if yer in cr, salvador, panama, etc. and usg has 'questions' for you, you're packaged in a crate and shipped on 1st flight next morning, for instance
1faad827c3177153…ec3dac30…2024-02-15 21:36:50 <billymg> so my thinking is to be in one of the spots they write off sooner rather than later
b25e8bfe1faad827…19df544e…2024-02-15 21:33:01 <signpost> I just don't think I'm that important, really.
187e5f05e0e1add1…b25e8bfe…2024-02-15 21:34:58 <signpost> more about as you said, making an early bet on a rising singapore, if that actually happens.
62a8482f187e5f05…da065aaa…2024-02-15 21:35:37 <asciilifeform> iirc sg imports 100% of errything, incl. mains current
6f9133ec187e5f05…e0e1add1…2024-02-15 21:39:47 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-15#1032292 << appreciate this assessment, can cross it off the list
452aa0f56f9133ec…c3177153…2024-02-15 21:38:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-15 16:34:16 signpost: does not seem to me that the small number of libertarians who moved there are making a significant impact compared to the cucks coming from massachusetts and other surrounding shitholes.
559b3284452aa0f5…62a8482f…2024-02-15 21:36:00 <asciilifeform> i.e. only exists as a bureucratic artifact
cbccd130559b3284…6f9133ec…2024-02-15 21:41:15 billymg is curious how things are in uruguay, maybe BingoBoingo will chime in again someday
a09ae16fcbccd130…187e5f05…2024-02-15 21:37:52 <signpost> billymg: overpopulated with wiggers too, all of new england.
bbe1a0bba09ae16f…cbccd130…2024-02-15 21:43:10 <billymg> signpost: after spending some time recently with my family (all hopelessly lobotomized liberals) i've realized that the most important thing for me is to simply not be around them
3034e1d8bbe1a0bb…bbe1a0bb…2024-02-15 21:43:54 <billymg> as asciilifeform always points out, reich can get at you anywhere in the world, so would rather just be in a place with fewer crazy people
4778ba4a3034e1d8…a09ae16f…2024-02-15 21:40:04 <signpost> it's like canada; everywhere outside the major cities is comprised of the remnant losers who couldn't get in, and the cities are on their way on the portland/san-francisco arc.
fa6ba69548c2e55f…48c2e55f…2024-02-15 21:40:50 signpost blessed with relatives that have some amount of sanity, but most have fucked off to these or those woods.
b0d86415fa6ba695…559b3284…2024-02-15 23:49:07 <asciilifeform> billymg: relocation arguably a 'scylla and charybdis' situation, with 'crazy lobotomized bonsaipeople' on 1 side and 'can't buy an m3 screw, not even speaking of roquefort...' on other
ae43649db0d86415…b0d86415…2024-02-15 23:50:32 <asciilifeform> (before laughing at 'roquefort', recall that ~erryone had sumthing they like that dungrow in bananistans. for mp, it was tall chix, rather than m3 screws, say)
0aaf1238ae43649d…ae43649d…2024-02-15 23:57:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-15#1032310 << part of the us insanity is that the relatively-sane can't (and afaik not even try) to agree on which woods to fuck off to
84d7ade10aaf1238…452aa0f5…2024-02-15 23:59:43 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-15 16:43:29 signpost: blessed with relatives that have some amount of sanity, but most have fucked off to these or those woods.
23748b3b84d7ade1…0aaf1238…2024-02-15 23:57:25 <asciilifeform> 'won't hang together, so hang separately'(tm)(r)(c)
76394f1123748b3b…23748b3b…2024-02-15 23:59:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-15#1032307 << 'get' most often not means 'noriega', but rather 'they set 1 bit in a db and nao if you wanna go somewhere, gotta walk or swim, and yer bank accts == 0'
f744474076394f11…84d7ade1…2024-02-16 00:01:41 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-15 16:42:28 billymg: as asciilifeform always points out, reich can get at you anywhere in the world, so would rather just be in a place with fewer crazy people
c76472d20000000000000000…2024-02-19 16:39:26 <phf> asciilifeform, since you're only other person i know reading locklin would you mind sanity checking https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2024/02/15/the-birthday-paradox/#comment-48703
84e716afc76472d2…c76472d2…2024-02-19 16:39:41 <phf> i think he messed up his birthday paradox math, but i don't know for sure because he also doesn't seem to want to engage the point. is this some kind of profound point of "looking at math differently" that i'm missing?
4179e3746d9088e0…6d9088e0…2024-02-19 16:44:13 <asciilifeform> phf: he did get it backwards. ( for n00bs, see e.g. )
5f25801b4179e374…4179e374…2024-02-19 16:45:41 <asciilifeform> oughta s/The probability of a group of people not sharing a birthday/The probability of a group of people sharing a birthday
9e16a2e25f25801b…5f25801b…2024-02-19 16:46:58 <asciilifeform> what has phf been up to? ( asciilifeform pleasantly surprised to hear from subj, assumed that this time he defo went to taiga and not came back... )
5931776c9e16a2e2…9e16a2e2…2024-02-19 16:51:00 asciilifeform scratches head, wonders wai locklin not cribbed the (quite short) derivation along with the rest of it
020d26145931776c…84e716af…2024-02-19 16:54:53 <phf> or why denied without even cursory check, i mean i started by simply plugging numbers in formula, getting opposite result
d216f6d86a2c8fdd…020d2614…2024-02-19 16:56:42 <phf> i've been pretty upset about it for the past day, because i held guy in high regard. i guess it's hard to acknolwedge a mistake when it's in the middle of "most people are stupid and suck at math" rant
ec2fe7b8d216f6d8…6a2c8fdd…2024-02-19 16:58:15 asciilifeform had at various times committed similar atrocities, but did fix, and will again if finds moar
5b9ea248ec2fe7b8…ec2fe7b8…2024-02-19 17:00:41 <asciilifeform> phf: imho locklin has been 'going to the dogs' for a while nao. asciilifeform not knows the fella well enuff at all to make an informed guess re why
5d22e7825b9ea248…d216f6d8…2024-02-19 17:01:17 <phf> it's not the mistake that's upsetting, of course, which otherwise would be pretty inconsequential
79e84c025d22e782…5b9ea248…2024-02-19 17:01:42 <asciilifeform> ( beyond the obv 'you are what you eat'(tm), d00d seems to have been snarfing up epic qtys of woo )
ab2ee147600f3bc0…600f3bc0…2024-02-19 17:04:42 <phf> to your other question, i mean we're in age of instant global communication. you can probably have starlink in a shack in taiga, or a microwave relay to closest poselok, which makes pest basically just a (load ...) away
a7a68444ab2ee147…ab2ee147…2024-02-19 17:06:59 <phf> besides it'll be tricky to ship rocky mountains which i'm partial to all the way to taiga. i guess they have their own breeds of winter hardy horse, but that's a whole lifestyle change
44c68a481a1c949b…591ad130…2024-02-19 17:12:29 asciilifeform admits, not even been to rocky mountains yet
05ee9aeb44c68a48…44c68a48…2024-02-19 17:15:14 asciilifeform not achieved anyffin worth telling people about for rather long time. instead roasted in commercial hell, where thermostat has been slowly but steadily climbing
ea8f0bde05ee9aeb…1a1c949b…2024-02-19 17:17:10 <phf> i periodically check the logs, how mp once said "in between pornhub and reddit", so i know not much is going on on account of not much going on anywhere in general
8cf3bd1fea8f0bde…05ee9aeb…2024-02-19 17:17:22 asciilifeform in a fit of pique, drew up schematics for one lul, then realized it was (like all of asciilifeform's builds) a deadend, shelved
6f4f72488cf3bd1f…f7444740…2024-02-19 17:20:04 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-07 22:25:45 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-07#1031498 << asciilifeform was recently considering baking an acoustic (morse. hold up to pnoje, like old autodialers) pocket otptron for point to point text.
e2374e4c6f4f7248…ff57d452…2024-02-19 17:20:16 <awt_akris> phf: ah ok thought I had released screencaps but not yet the code.
62c37771e2374e4c…4c41b3bf…2024-02-19 17:22:59 <phf> well, i bought a house, cheap because somewhat middle of nowhere, and also cash, this is not otherwise notable, except that it pushed me further in the direction of plunge routers and chimney chases
4c41b3bfb2cd99a9…ea8f0bde…2024-02-19 17:19:26 <phf> awt, that was while i was still here, somewhere on the tail end, i believe
9102e50962c37771…b2cd99a9…2024-02-19 17:24:23 asciilifeform spent a hilarious # of cycles on similar, complete with plunge routers, endoscopes, thermovisors, whole junkyard of various tooling 'for 1 job, but whoknows, could again'
25bcd0169102e509…62c37771…2024-02-19 17:25:33 <phf> i've kind of realized that there isn't a happening where my skills are needed, i'm anyway failing to find it and failing to create it myself, so i'm just focusing on, again to quote mp imprecisely, "tweaking their car engines in their garages or whatever it is they do"
4abd591525bcd016…9102e509…2024-02-19 17:26:07 <asciilifeform> there's an epic 'division of labour fail' in the reich, where you gotta talk to 6-7 contractors (and pay...) before find one who isn't simply trying to sell you a good % of yer house in replacement gear. so easier/cheaper with own hands
d8a85e696cd9f19b…6cd9f19b…2024-02-19 17:27:30 <phf> out in the deplorables lands also pretty easy to find a retired something or other who's now an unlicensed general contractor, who will do a job for you and "save you some money" by doing it poorly
5b8c2591d8a85e69…4abd5915…2024-02-19 17:28:09 <asciilifeform> lotsa these here in 'civilization' also
f179f1e65b8c2591…d8a85e69…2024-02-19 17:34:45 <phf> out in this direction we have "the lake" which is deep creek lake, which is where various pittsburgh and DC rich buy summer beach houses. it's a kind of local C list wealth destination. so there's also a lot of contractors that are good at doing big dollar installations. "oh you ha rY؇!cA\o ,BLN,
61eea79bf179f1e6…f179f1e6…2024-02-19 17:34:45 <phf> ve HVAC issues, we'll replace the entire system for 40k" etc. rY؇!cA\o ,BLN,
fd95f24a61eea79b…61eea79b…2024-02-19 17:36:04 <phf> but there's nobody really who can be competent about their work they do in a systemic way, i dunno, run some cursory numbers before they start cutting into foundation, get an understand of what's there now and suggest incremental improvements, etc.
8ce8070cfd95f24a…fd95f24a…2024-02-19 17:37:52 <phf> competency crisis means that you're talking to a contractor, after watching a handful of youtube videos, and realize that their understanding of the situation whatever it is is lesser then yours and there's no way to redeam it. kind of like scott locklin's "no i didn't make a mistake, eof"
d8bbc2c98ce8070c…8ce8070c…2024-02-19 17:39:40 <phf> hence "1 carbide panel pilot bit for a 1/2 plunge router please"
92a75307d8bbc2c9…5b8c2591…2024-02-19 17:50:16 <asciilifeform> 'entire system for 40k' << 100% asciilifeform's experience with these
3ba1dbe592a75307…d8bbc2c9…2024-02-19 17:50:54 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-01-29#1032541 << i reread the referenced log, and there was no essays promised, only requested. it's a subject that's not worth exploring just to satisfy curiosity of random tourists
6725464c3ba1dbe5…fa6ba695…2024-02-19 17:51:16 signpost has gone back to renting for precisely this reason, spent too much repeatedly repairing a shitbox house.
9f7d47146725464c…13db0bb8…2024-02-19 18:00:01 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-19#1032363 << and here i was thinking that was only the case here in bananistan
f4f087c16725464c…d5a19181…2024-02-21 09:44:43 <unpx> tbh I'm using more the web pager than my IRC client to read logs, and the web pager is not yet ready for pest:// links. I guess this will be a thing to consider in an implementation. IRC do not know what a base64 link is, but it is there, in Pest
2e4ded6d6725464c…d61525e5…2024-02-25 09:35:17 <crtdaydreams> but afaik the implication would be that it wasn't licensed off to symbolics by knight and moon
78f187919f7d4714…6f4f7248…2024-02-19 17:58:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-19 12:40:34 phf[jonsykkel]: competency crisis means that you're talking to a contractor, after watching a handful of youtube videos, and realize that their understanding of the situation whatever it is is lesser then yours and there's no way to redeam it. kind of like scott locklin's "no i didn't make a m
3e912ff7f4f087c1…e2374e4c…2024-02-21 10:59:55 <awt_akris> unpx: it's a pest link. If you use Akris, you can click on it. Alternatively, the web page could link it.
2af7fe042e4ded6d…2e4ded6d…2024-02-25 09:36:18 <crtdaydreams> but not sure whether he's simply not interested in digging up related material or if there's something else, unknown
955b1e6d78f18791…92a75307…2024-02-19 17:57:21 <asciilifeform> phf: archaological find ( not asciilifeform's ) while you were out, possibly interesting, but possibly already saw elsewhere on net
bdadf31e78f18791…9f7d4714…2024-02-19 18:01:39 billymg went this route on recent project, sorta works if you're standing over their shoulder the whole time, and reading/watching youtube videos on the subject in the evening
f95fba612af7fe04…2af7fe04…2024-02-25 09:37:00 <crtdaydreams> an item of specific interest is the Design Procedure Language manual
fcc14458bdadf31e…78f18791…2024-02-19 18:00:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-19 12:30:12 phf[jonsykkel]: out in the deplorables lands also pretty easy to find a retired something or other who's now an unlicensed general contractor, who will do a job for you and "save you some money" by doing it poorly
60e90c9df95fba61…f95fba61…2024-02-25 09:40:49 <crtdaydreams> there are 428 vlsi memos over the course of six and a half years the contract ran for
20763195fcc14458…3ba1dbe5…2024-02-19 18:02:17 <phf> asciilifeform, yeah i actually saw it in logs, but i don't want to spend bandwidth on it. i have enough projects for my avocation
4f0dc58660e90c9d…60e90c9d…2024-02-25 09:45:46 <crtdaydreams> i'm looking at setting up a website to index everything unless phf would be interested in making space on tumbleweed?
0a7c75aa20763195…20763195…2024-02-19 18:06:34 <phf> i actually have the entire genera source, encumbered by handshakes and promises. i've been using it as my "serious business" machine, like i keep my accounting and important notes and such in genera. as a larp. but working with that source code is the ultimate writing into a desk
a23d534a4f0dc586…4f0dc586…2024-02-25 09:52:59 <crtdaydreams> but I think the best path to making this digestible and documenting it will be to a) make the original docs avaliable and b) writing summaries and examples. there are already places like here and the forums to reason about things and compound upon ideas and fill in missing knowledge
5ebb539b9b31e012…0a7c75aa…2024-02-19 18:10:15 <phf> so i dunno adding copy/paste to genera x window is about as productive as spelunking EURISKO, but when i do it at least i'm fully aware that i'm basically doing an equivalent of "putting on reading glasses and pulling a tome of chaucer from the shelf"
b6f499aaa23d534a…a23d534a…2024-02-25 09:56:46 <crtdaydreams> phf: if you're interested I'll be putting together a raw html index regardless. even if you're willing to be a mirror
e73af68d5ebb539b…9b31e012…2024-02-19 18:35:02 asciilifeform was unequal to the task of making genera (incl. Officially purchased dec alpha version) to the point where 'livable' i.e. 'do accounting in it'
e8fde973b6f499aa…b6f499aa…2024-02-25 10:26:55 <crtdaydreams> asciilifeform: is MolBox still the same commercial pit of despair you're talking about here?
b15478b2b6f499aa…b6f499aa…2024-02-27 10:15:22 <crtdaydreams> in unrelated news does anyone know what happened to Rainer Joswig?
ca6d1531e73af68d…e73af68d…2024-02-19 18:36:59 <asciilifeform> the depressing aspect wasn't 'ohnoez payware', had 0 problem baking various commercial items in e.g. wolframism.
77c2ae0ce8fde973…e6f61de5…2024-02-26 16:28:39 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-25#1032399 << nope
340c1b0ab15478b2…b15478b2…2024-02-27 10:15:46 <crtdaydreams> guy was a rather prominent lispm enthusiast in the twitter space
260d425bca6d1531…ca6d1531…2024-02-19 18:38:18 <asciilifeform> rather, the very peculiar relationship the corpse of bolix has with paying customers -- pay up, but still not get the seekrit stable m1 version, etc., request any info re internals, get told to suck it
f3b19cd577c2ae0c…80d630bc…2024-02-26 16:31:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-25 05:24:37 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: asciilifeform: is MolBox still the same commercial pit of despair you're talking about here?
b6a035ad260d425b…260d425b…2024-02-19 18:44:25 asciilifeform speculated re the reasons for this, but not knows for certain wtf, personally has only a pile of items dks was willing to sell for money + small collection of quite antique docs from various people
d3a6d39cf3b19cd5…77c2ae0c…2024-02-26 16:30:30 <asciilifeform> 'pit' was a consulting proj with a (not famous) uk co. ended last wk, fwiw.
218916c041164329…41164329…2024-02-27 10:16:20 <crtdaydreams> looks like he nuked his acc for some reason
80d630bcb6a035ad…fcc14458…2024-02-19 18:47:07 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-10-31 17:53:58 asciilifeform[6]: ( starting with mallery, who 'i bought for $mil, but Worth Billions!' -- or alternatively, per asciilifeform's hypothesis, simply happy to sit on the whole thing for nsa & co. who not eager to see even toy example of cpu-and-os-sans-overflows rise from bottom of ocean )
d093c667d3a6d39c…d3a6d39c…2024-02-26 16:31:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-25#1032398 << do it, asciilifeform will mirror.
58db3eaa218916c0…218916c0…2024-02-27 10:19:17 <crtdaydreams> Admittedly I haven't tried to reach out to him directly through email, however wondering if any other astute observers might have had an inkling of what happened
e469ac7980d630bc…b6a035ad…2024-02-19 18:56:54 asciilifeform still of the pov that 'the Right Thing' would be an iron on which it'd be conceivable to slowly rebuild sane system, incl. in the ways demonstrated by bolix, but to this day not knows any plausible way to finance such an effort
217fca57d093c667…f3b19cd5…2024-02-26 16:34:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-25 04:54:28 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: phf: if you're interested I'll be putting together a raw html index regardless. even if you're willing to be a mirror
6183669758db3eaa…58db3eaa…2024-02-27 10:20:31 <crtdaydreams> has anyone also heard of a book "Scheme 9 from empty space"
22a12545e469ac79…e469ac79…2024-02-19 18:59:32 <asciilifeform> ... it defo aint happening 'in evenings & weekends' and on lunch money.
cd7305cb217fca57…d093c667…2024-02-26 16:32:18 <asciilifeform> preservation of historical documents may be 'not sexy' but still valuable.
6503efa261836697…61836697…2024-02-27 10:21:47 <crtdaydreams> From what I gather it's a mostly obscure text that takes the reader through the process of writing a scheme interpreter from assembly and a C compiler
e16546136503efa2…6503efa2…2024-02-27 10:26:43 <crtdaydreams> If anyones read it I'd be interested in a short summary and recommendation. I'll still likely try and get my hands on a physical copy to read but I'd be glad to get a better idea of what it is I'm purchasing before I do.
67f6ce6992422b43…99bc11ea…2024-02-27 15:44:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-27#1032413 << iirc all he had (like most 'lispm enthusiast') was buncha photos
50a5332167f6ce69…217fca57…2024-02-27 15:46:52 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-27 05:13:03 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: in unrelated news does anyone know what happened to Rainer Joswig?
6c4b714750a53321…67f6ce69…2024-02-27 15:45:48 <asciilifeform> i.e. 'i'ma collector!11, hear me roar'
89677c746c4b7147…50a53321…2024-02-27 15:48:33 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-08-02 asciilifeform: liek bolix after the whisperers are done burning through the last ivory's mtbf yea
5f71fbe789677c74…89677c74…2024-02-27 15:48:33 <bitbot> (trilema) 2018-01-17 asciilifeform: some people spent $10k's on their collections of bolixiana. and imagine that these will become worthless if an accurate fpgalogical emulator appears. and for all i know , this is true. i simply don't care.
93db026c5f71fbe7…6c4b7147…2024-02-27 15:50:02 asciilifeform arguably 'not fit to throw stone', still sitting on box + qty of cpu samples, but w/out resources to do particularly much. but at least it's 1) 1 box 2) on record as 'would, if could'
ed5d6c8193db026c…93db026c…2024-02-27 15:59:16 asciilifeform re 'ohnoez, copyrasts!', notes that it's been 15y since asciilifeform posted the opengenera iso to piratebay, and 5y since posted the macivory hdd image, and still not heard so much as a squeak from the riaa types
0e265270ed5d6c81…ed5d6c81…2024-02-27 17:02:54 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-02-27#1032420 << there's a snippet at author's www
10ff76660e265270…5f71fbe7…2024-02-27 17:05:38 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-02-27 05:24:25 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel|signpost]: If anyones read it I'd be interested in a short summary and recommendation. I'll still likely try and get my hands on a physical copy to read but I'd be glad to get a better idea of what it is I'm purchasing before I do.
2364094c0ac81820…0ac81820…2024-02-28 03:04:51 <asciilifeform> and nao, for sumthing completely different: http://146.190.13.172/articles/peh-exe-running-peh-on-dos/
aa921ba4dcf1c102…dcf1c102…2024-02-28 03:35:24 <asciilifeform> ^ fella even has pubkey, and even in peh format.
5f2bdd9daa921ba4…aa921ba4…2024-02-28 03:54:37 asciilifeform sent fella a pgpgram w/ pest peering info
fef5049f7e1b5936…7e1b5936…2024-02-28 05:54:17 <crtdaydreams> i'm not sure if it's my system but there seems to be a rendering glitch between any #\t charachters preceded by an #\s
08b8230b35d9826d…fef5049f…2024-03-06 01:05:24 <crtdaydreams> https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/
a1039e316d556793…cb3e313e…2024-03-01 21:36:16 <asciilifeform> phf: https://btcbase.org/patches kaput ?
f13ab9700000000000000000…2024-03-01 21:53:42 <phf> asciilifeform, i shall investigate. i haven't had to do any kind of maintenance on it for a few years (that sbcl instance is clocking 3+ years of continous uptime), so it'll take a bit to get everything in order
12c23faaf13ab970…a1039e31…2024-03-01 23:21:03 <asciilifeform> ty phf! asciilifeform in fact finds that page a++ useful and hopes it does make a return eventually
99b4ba2e12c23faa…12c23faa…2024-03-01 23:21:16 asciilifeform freshly outta work and has some time on his hands...
b00f10bca444237c…f13ab970…2024-03-01 23:44:19 <phf> lol, all this effort for nothing. btcbase doesn't support https! but i guess since there's no longer a fatwa i can throw in lets encrypt
08995cc2b00f10bc…a444237c…2024-03-01 23:44:39 <asciilifeform> lol that was a browser artifact loox like
3fe742a9c38b714a…c38b714a…2024-03-01 23:45:51 <asciilifeform> (imho no need to mutilate the thing with sslism, instead asciilifeform needs a patched browser on his toilet box)
1e73b13a3fe742a9…3fe742a9…2024-03-01 23:46:34 asciilifeform dusting off various things, scraping off the cosmoline, shaking out scorpions, etc
0270b6511e73b13a…b00f10bc…2024-03-01 23:47:50 <phf> i reprovisioned the whole system from scratch, so lost the uptime, because i also didn't notice it was https. but i needed to recover root password, and do some bookkeeping anyway
cd47c52a8cbfaf92…8cbfaf92…2024-03-01 23:49:04 asciilifeform fwiw has 0 intention of emplacing sslisms on any of his www's
abd4c5f9cd47c52a…0270b651…2024-03-02 00:55:14 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-02-25#1032941 << ams who runs tumbleweed is even less a fan of scheme than i am, but generally all things there are related to running a cadr
6a756786abd4c5f9…f359f3d8…2024-03-02 00:55:15 <dulapbot> Logged on 2024-02-25 04:40:50 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: i'm looking at setting up a website to index everything unless phf would be interested in making space on tumbleweed?
9ec5362b6a756786…abd4c5f9…2024-03-02 01:03:49 <phf> there's a version of hdl cadr there, which runs on a pipistrello board, and the core is automatically translated netlists. a project more aligned with goals of tumbleweed/lm-3 would be to port that to a different board that is otherwise still in production, or rewrite the core manu #}O UMz}=cBM"zs1
91427e9a9ec5362b…9ec5362b…2024-03-02 01:03:49 <phf> ally instead of using netlists. those are weclome hacks #}O UMz}=cBM"zs1
9ae0de5c91427e9a…91427e9a…2024-03-02 01:08:45 <phf> scheme cpu is a project without beginning, middle or end. it's at its core an attempt from the 80s to autogenerate cpu layout using programmatic tools. so its focus is to build an anemic cpu, which itself was supposed to be used as a manager of various other useful coprocessors. (y 6@ 鼟.- +a~:hu(Wsj<
569658a99ae0de5c…9ae0de5c…2024-03-02 01:08:45 <phf> ou want math, you talk to scheme cpu, and it will talk to math co-cpu) 6@ 鼟.- +a~:hu(Wsj<
c223f97b569658a9…569658a9…2024-03-02 01:12:19 <phf> so if the goal is to replicate the scheme cpu path, the output must be something like an input for a foundry. if otherwise you're going to run it on fpga, then it's trivial to construct a scheme "core" yourself of similar complexity to scheme cpu from first principles, because you e\-"ŋU6eRQ\?7(
4fd24fdbc223f97b…c223f97b…2024-03-02 01:12:19 <phf> don't have the baggage of trying to figure out vlsi. and then once you have a scheme cpu, building a useful system out of it (bus, peripherals) and on top of it (actual scheme code) is left as an exercise for the reader e\-"ŋU6eRQ\?7(
41c0eba34fd24fdb…4fd24fdb…2024-03-02 01:14:07 <phf> where's tumbleweed is a avocation project of getting cadr code base to a state where you can use it as a casual hacking machine, simlar to e.g. project medley. i hope that clarifies things
bcacb8a941c0eba3…41c0eba3…2024-03-02 01:15:59 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-02-20#1115800 << i started building https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/skerry-rowing-sailing-dinghy-kit.html kit, which was interrupted by winter. i will wrap it up by summer, inshallah
00eaaca2bcacb8a9…6a756786…2024-03-02 01:15:59 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2024-02-20 Vex: wonders if phf got a dinghy. a "non trivial" rig is sure to make acquaintance around the waterfront. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-02-19#1032904
7f678aa500eaaca2…cd47c52a…2024-03-02 18:00:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-01#1032467 << nostalgic board, from asciilifeform's pov. or, rather, not the board per se (not had that one) but the 'spartan 6', asciilifeform mined his 1st coin on one back in the day
c264e80a7f678aa5…10ff7666…2024-03-02 18:02:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-01 20:06:34 phf[jonsykkel]: there's a version of hdl cadr there, which runs on a pipistrello board, and the core is automatically translated netlists. a project more aligned with goals of tumbleweed/lm-3 would be to port that to a different board that is otherwise still in production, or rewrite the c
2b9c5f29c264e80a…7f678aa5…2024-03-02 18:01:14 asciilifeform not looked at the fpga cadr in a while, wonders what chip/board-specific pheatures it makes use of
d8e5e0f22b9c5f29…2b9c5f29…2024-03-02 18:04:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-01#1032472 << vlsi is in some ways ~easier~ than fpgaism (not need to sew the thing to fit a particular pile of on-die gadgets -- and the routing fabric b/w them -- just-so)
2ed91043d8e5e0f2…c264e80a…2024-03-02 18:06:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-01 20:15:20 phf[jonsykkel]: don't have the baggage of trying to figure out vlsi. and then once you have a scheme cpu, building a useful system out of it (bus, peripherals) and on top of it (actual scheme code) is left as an exercise for the reader
87c4e9af2ed91043…2ed91043…2024-03-02 18:06:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-02-12 12:40:30 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: ( for that matter, historically in fpga marketing lit 'moar gates' has usually meant 'in the form of proprietary on-die appliances' rather than 'bigger sea o'gates' fwiw )
a9d38c7087c4e9af…d8e5e0f2…2024-03-02 18:05:41 <asciilifeform> fpga was orig. meant for slow-prototyping of vlsi. ended up used in released products rather by happenstance, as vlsi fab cost 'went to moon'
d3ea112f87c4e9af…a9d38c70…2024-03-02 18:11:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-01#1032471 << the painful part ( as phf prolly knew ) aint the scheme core
1de553bcd3ea112f…87c4e9af…2024-03-02 18:13:58 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-01 20:15:04 phf[jonsykkel]: so if the goal is to replicate the scheme cpu path, the output must be something like an input for a foundry. if otherwise you're going to run it on fpga, then it's trivial to construct a scheme "core" yourself of similar complexity to scheme cpu from first principles, beca
753175a51de553bc…1de553bc…2024-03-02 18:13:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-12-11 18:38:25 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel|billymg]: thing is that they aint an optional luxury. can't bake e.g. reliable ddr2 controller w/out knowing the gate delays and geometry of errything in that thing
8938fd88753175a5…d3ea112f…2024-03-02 18:12:53 <asciilifeform> ... it's errything else. esp. if one not wants to use multi-MB of ??? chip-specific liquishit (whether vendor closed liquishit, or 'opensores' ram controller, which equally incomprehensible ~and~ with shite performance)
f2d249a6dcd34563…dcd34563…2024-03-02 18:16:52 <asciilifeform> ACTION remembers -- tho can't find thread in o(1) presently -- an episode where asciilifeform , thoroughly tired of that nonsense, went to draw up a board on which 'let's put 1G of fast sram + fpga and be done with it', only to discover that nobody's making standalone srams that could keep up with reasonable fpga clock, a
6171333af2d249a6…f2d249a6…2024-03-02 18:16:53 <asciilifeform> nd for that matter none appeared to exist in any higher densities than in late '90s !
14de1aba6171333a…6171333a…2024-03-02 18:19:32 <asciilifeform> if merely want to reproduce bolix-like box, tho, yes, can make do with 16MB or whatever. but in that case machine is firmly in 'toy' weight class in re practical use
c95c970b14de1aba…14de1aba…2024-03-02 18:24:48 <asciilifeform> (ftr asciilifeform's criterion for 'practical' : box oughta be able to run the design toolchain that baked it. obv. not immediately, but eventually)
34b96a80e93e4f07…6725464c…2024-03-02 23:51:04 <signpost> whelp, corn making all-time highs alongside gold and us stonks is pretty clenchful.
f9558539af6aaeed…e6cfeeed…2024-03-03 00:48:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: doing various things ( see prev ), tho atm mostly meatspace. and you ?
31c56283f9558539…753175a5…2024-03-03 00:50:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-01 18:24:01 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: freshly outta work and has some time on his hands...
7f240be131c56283…31c56283…2024-03-03 00:50:45 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-01 18:49:19 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: dusting off various things, scraping off the cosmoline, shaking out scorpions, etc
7798a8a97f240be1…f9558539…2024-03-03 00:50:57 <asciilifeform> ( for the curious, 1 client bailed, the other -- defunkt, nao running on batteries, in which sufficient charge to go for yrs w/out touching any coin. so asciilifeform catching up on justabout errything )
e35ad580c67ac312…d29e6f44…2024-03-03 00:53:40 <signpost> I've been squeezing out a fat pile of java, but more importantly reading books to my kid.
79c844a84ac1ab1c…e35ad580…2024-03-03 00:54:37 <signpost> 15mos now, chattering away, knows letters, doing great
5684680fc45920ff…c45920ff…2024-03-03 00:57:50 <asciilifeform> signpost: java, as asciilifeform discovered, aint the bottom of the hell, 'thought we hit bottom, but sumbody knocked from below'(tm)(r), did 3+y in gulag where lang for which there aint even one non-buggy compiler
53e283b95684680f…79c844a8…2024-03-03 00:58:34 <signpost> oof. yeah, it's a devil I know, and usable for corporate webshits.
84299f1053e283b9…5684680f…2024-03-03 01:00:30 <asciilifeform> the 3rd yr was in a penal battallion where 'fix the compiler' etc
ebdd4cd084299f10…53e283b9…2024-03-03 01:05:01 signpost scraping together some patterns bv and I used in the last one we sold into reusable tools.
d18b51bfebdd4cd0…84299f10…2024-03-03 01:09:01 <asciilifeform> selling tools defo over9000x better than 'sell body' indeed
6b71cefbd18b51bf…d18b51bf…2024-03-03 01:09:23 asciilifeform would quite like to sell sumthing reusable at some pt
0ad34e3b6b71cefb…ebdd4cd0…2024-03-03 01:14:13 <signpost> most of the toil in distributed webshits is of the "job creation" variety, where a bunch of 22yo entry level devs smear slightly different representations of the same thing throughout.
8e151e5a0ad34e3b…0ad34e3b…2024-03-03 01:14:41 <signpost> somebody at big g literally told me when I joined that all I'd ever do is convert between proto formats, lol.
ffef81c0c1e3cc80…6b71cefb…2024-03-03 01:16:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: believe or not, sometimes sea of liquishit even in places where no webshits and no one is 22yo...
b69eb45cffef81c0…ffef81c0…2024-03-03 01:17:09 <asciilifeform> there wasn't any (well, almost) microshitiana. but at same time the most dysfunctional shithole asciilifeform ever served time in
0d8a0213b69eb45c…c1e3cc80…2024-03-03 01:18:30 <signpost> really can't be overstated how bad at management americans are.
5f84ef12be5b1592…0d8a0213…2024-03-03 01:18:57 <signpost> aw well, sadder for them to be at our level.
d2d807f45f84ef12…be5b1592…2024-03-03 01:19:41 <asciilifeform> 1 day, when they fold, will say which brits, but was a shop asciilifeform guarantees no one's ever heard of, last knew -- not even had a www.
a15145cfd2d807f4…d2d807f4…2024-03-03 01:20:30 <asciilifeform> of the 'financial' (fiatola strictly) flavour.
4b874868a15145cf…a15145cf…2024-03-03 01:21:57 <asciilifeform> story rather resembles 1 of signpost's old gigs, where (long gone) founder thought 'we'll fix computing and get mega-edge' but bet on catastrophically wrong horse
921cfbc74b874868…5f84ef12…2024-03-03 01:22:08 <signpost> anyway I figured if I was actually going to keep doing this (this being continuing to try to shave transaction fees out of normies bobbling through life) I'd make a tolerable webshitter. got an item now which dumps a respectable grpc deployment into a clean AWS, wrote a lightweight tool that reads pg schema and shits out a
8b6cd87e921cfbc7…921cfbc7…2024-03-03 01:22:08 <signpost> grpc server for same, lispy hooks throughout to change sane defaults.
f26ffb47c157b5ab…4b874868…2024-03-03 01:23:16 <asciilifeform> a, for sumreason asciilifeform thought it ended with his eltsin-style vodka demise
bd60f961d9f39a5c…75d06d5c…2024-03-03 01:26:50 <signpost> that's him, though he'd have said that sql merely encrufted the coddly beauty.
04f3a3d42755531f…2755531f…2024-03-03 01:27:41 asciilifeform open, in principle, to commercial worx featuring sumthing other than 'hold up collapsing walls' nonsense, but 'not holds breath'. aint in any hurry fwiw.
6324895904f3a3d4…bd60f961…2024-03-03 01:28:05 <signpost> wanted a structure editor for query ASTs, and a system which binds result types to arbitrary UI elements, compose UI on the fly.
0a7d7b9ff85ec3d7…f85ec3d7…2024-03-03 01:29:30 <signpost> re: commercial works, I don't even know what I'd field right now. I've had plenty of ideas which would suit a functioning country.
6ed9b8680a7d7b9f…0a7d7b9f…2024-03-03 01:31:57 <signpost> my current project is intended to have in place what'd support a commercial effort on the far side of the splat.
8dd8fb536ed9b868…04f3a3d4…2024-03-03 01:36:11 <asciilifeform> current kompyooting/softs market is afaik solidly of the variety where 'the mice cried, pricked themselves, but continued to gnaw on the cactus'(tm)(r)(ru)
684452c88dd8fb53…8dd8fb53…2024-03-03 01:39:49 asciilifeform would e.g. this but has difficulty picturing how could be made +ev
3fee3661684452c8…7f240be1…2024-03-03 01:42:35 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-05-26 10:39:55 asciilifeform[6]: the 1 and only Right Thing to do with trb is to rewrite it sanely, but that sword is still firmly in the stone and likely to stay there.
eb11da813fee3661…00eaaca2…2024-03-03 01:39:55 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2022-02-19 asciilifeform: 'not quite bitcoin', asciilifeform's demo of adaistic ab-initio mechanisms for hypothetical replacement of trb
578646701063ca56…6ed9b868…2024-03-03 01:40:23 <signpost> I think it requires the world to crash and reboot first, as many nice things.
0041dcaf57864670…57864670…2024-03-03 01:40:47 signpost has a btc transaction editor he'll do at some point, but not yet.
363f0fc90041dcaf…1063ca56…2024-03-03 01:41:07 <asciilifeform> 'crashed world' not imho seems like a place where folx ~moar~ willing to pay for softs, of whatever variety, vs current one
c0de9412363f0fc9…0041dcaf…2024-03-03 01:41:31 <signpost> rebooted into hard money, which will take possibly longer than our lives, possibly not.
aafe897fc0de9412…c0de9412…2024-03-03 01:41:37 <signpost> https://www.tradingview.com/x/2n1ybCTS/ << tea leaves update. orange line is hashRate * blockReward / btcSupply / math.pow(10, 11.7)
c435c5c6f2802435…363f0fc9…2024-03-03 01:42:40 <asciilifeform> signpost: to asciilifeform seems like exchrate is primarily a function of how much coin enemy can, at given time, muster for the 'extinguisher'. but whoknows
e3daa6b3223b5b6d…223b5b6d…2024-03-03 01:45:11 <signpost> they should've sent somebody smarter but here I am in the JS on tradingview, lol.
b6d8646be3daa6b3…e3daa6b3…2024-03-03 01:45:37 <signpost> it occurred to me that each bitcoin was purchased by the network itself with a certain number of hashes
f637a371b6d8646b…c435c5c6…2024-03-03 01:47:35 <asciilifeform> afaik most coin on market aint freshly-mined tho (and hasn't been in many yrs)
bcce069651573375…b6d8646b…2024-03-03 01:48:38 <signpost> most coin doesn't circulate at all, just sits there hodlin
6312bfd14e1fcc37…4e1fcc37…2024-03-03 01:49:12 <asciilifeform> exchrate is formed by what ~does~ change hands tho.
c1c7cbd26312bfd1…bcce0696…2024-03-03 01:51:13 <signpost> that'd make me think the newly minted coin has most of the influence.
77850a85c1c7cbd2…6312bfd1…2024-03-03 01:51:55 asciilifeform not has sufficient info to refute or otherwise
7fb768ba77850a85…77850a85…2024-03-03 01:53:38 asciilifeform would be astonished if 'sell walls' not -- to this day -- consisted primarily of things like this, however
3d0f1bab7fb768ba…3fee3661…2024-03-03 01:56:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2022-11-08 14:31:50 billymg: every now and then the waterfall is refilled with actual coin as well, handed over not voluntarily, but in a shakedown, e.g. like this recent announcement: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction
b00e9c463d0f1bab…7fb768ba…2024-03-03 01:56:21 <asciilifeform> so far , pattern seems to be (e.g. 2d ago), exch rate seems to 'go to exponential', then suddenly 'from nowhere' over90000 sell, until quiet again
2ee04802b00e9c46…b00e9c46…2024-03-03 01:56:44 <asciilifeform> hence asciilifeform's model where 'fire extinguisher'
f85516832ee04802…c1c7cbd2…2024-03-03 01:57:15 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-02#1032494 << I was implying here that we're seeing the death of USD.
6b97ccc8f8551683…3d0f1bab…2024-03-03 01:59:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-02 18:53:47 signpost: whelp, corn making all-time highs alongside gold and us stonks is pretty clenchful.
548c601b6b97ccc8…f8551683…2024-03-03 01:58:05 <signpost> sadly I think part of e.g. today's quiet is that people are buying through the ETFs.
e4eb995b1a85b070…2ee04802…2024-03-03 01:58:19 <asciilifeform> usd arguably died in '21-22. atm what we've is its shambling corpse
054f686cceb70fc7…1a85b070…2024-03-03 01:58:45 <signpost> ETFs are holding about 4% of all BTC and climbing.
87c124a5054f686c…054f686c…2024-03-03 01:58:53 <signpost> that will be a motherfucker of a pig to gut at some point.
462ec434208e01ee…6b97ccc8…2024-03-03 02:02:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-01-24 17:13:06 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: the coin per se may be present as claimed, but the only thing it can 'do' is to eventually be stolen (in addition to the fact that 'your' paper stake can also be 're-ownered' at any time, on orders from a usg official or similar)
1fe3e35f462ec434…87c124a5…2024-03-03 02:00:16 <signpost> if they don't I'll be forced to believe BTC was a USG project.
f3e758b2fd0219fe…1fe3e35f…2024-03-03 02:01:22 <signpost> if they don't use the ETFs in the same manner as gold ETFs have been used.
c84cc57bf3e758b2…fd0219fe…2024-03-03 02:01:40 <asciilifeform> afaik they're working precisely as the au ones worked
baa8946bc84cc57b…c84cc57b…2024-03-03 02:01:51 <asciilifeform> i.e. diverting fiatola from purchase of actual btc
20e7f3d7862cd4c4…862cd4c4…2024-03-03 02:02:47 <signpost> because another hypothesis is that BTC does a fine job murdering weaker fiats and dollarizing them. e.g. Argentina
54f7271420e7f3d7…baa8946b…2024-03-03 02:03:15 <asciilifeform> not impossible, but in asciilifeform's pov will be 'it's 200, but would be 200x if not for the glue traps' etc
418b1b5154f72714…20e7f3d7…2024-03-03 02:03:15 <signpost> all the reptiles would have to do to keep stateside plebs in place is shut out non-accredited investors after the next bubble bursts.
76718a53418b1b51…54f72714…2024-03-03 02:03:43 <asciilifeform> will for that matter be 200 at some pt, guaranteed ('when sandwich is 200$' e.g.)
04b88abc76718a53…76718a53…2024-03-03 02:05:54 <asciilifeform> ( the moar proper formulation of the q would be e.g. 'will 1btc == 1000m^2 house in nyc' )
89d984eb68e7f7b3…462ec434…2024-03-03 02:09:36 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2021-04-23 asciilifeform: shinohai: wai hilarious? asciilifeform had shoebox of rubles. many orcs remember similar experience.
380a750d89d984eb…eb11da81…2024-03-03 02:06:56 <dulapbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-05-05 asciilifeform: thimbronion: i watched ruble die as a boy. suddenly had whole sack full of'em, felt 'rich'. until a little later, when noticed it wouldn't buy even candy bar
e62b3bc9380a750d…418b1b51…2024-03-03 02:10:31 <signpost> https://www.tradingview.com/x/1LQy29AP/ << I think our department of dirty financial tricks is doing a lot more than just printing. straight up infini-printola looks like this.
e252cc40e62b3bc9…68e7f7b3…2024-03-03 03:19:09 asciilifeform would be interested to see a 'btc vs 1000m^2 in nyc' chart, but can't be arsed to bake it
020d4440e252cc40…e252cc40…2024-03-03 03:27:36 asciilifeform observes various folxs' fondness for drawing charts, and notes that if said charts had been even accurate even within 10% apriori, rather than after the fact, the chart makers oughta have achieved 2-3 doublings of their 2010s coin pile by nao...
6ae298455a2e4ab3…5a2e4ab3…2024-03-03 03:29:56 <asciilifeform> this strictly in re charts which suppose a useful relationship b/w time (incl. as expressed by btc difficulty) and exchrate, naturally
906d22166ae29845…e62b3bc9…2024-03-03 19:58:35 <signpost> my problem is I only noticed this a year or two ago, and was pretty much balls deep in btc already by then.
bdd7ce07906d2216…906d2216…2024-03-03 19:58:50 <signpost> mentioned thinking about selling the next top but the problem is into what.
32f3676dbdd7ce07…bdd7ce07…2024-03-03 20:03:42 <signpost> also, what happens if demand stays above supply for an entire cycle? might look unlike any preceding halving.
f953d40532f3676d…32f3676d…2024-03-03 20:10:18 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/complete-disaster-german-govt-scholz-promises-probe-very-serious-leaked-recording-plan << in other tales of western decay, we can't even do a terrorism properly anymore
669e08a8085c4143…a7c5d619…2024-03-04 15:31:08 <billymg> in other speculation, i wonder if trump will "win" again and mp will ultimately be proven correct in this proclamation
edf7cc0c669e08a8…89d984eb…2024-03-04 15:29:28 <bitbot> (trilema) 2017-07-21 mircea_popescu: really, not obvious this is the last one ?
3f4a7fc79ffb1cda…9ffb1cda…2024-03-05 15:51:32 <mod6> Just msg me if you wanna take this process to a side-channel.
9c7dd8bf3f4a7fc7…3f4a7fc7…2024-03-05 15:53:49 <mod6> or do we just have to do /rekey <handle> at or around the same time?
0ea856309c7dd8bf…e7b56cee…2024-03-05 18:35:54 <shinohai> mod6 how about on dulapnet DM? I can gen a key for you there if ya like.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a5160126014f3fa108f33955b27830cdd3169e879b31113defdec41d7e453f12) prior to <busybot> ---
b3e8cd260000000000000000…2024-03-06 15:10:35 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-02-27#1032958 << joswig posts under a nickname lispm, once you know that it's easy to find him, https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lispm https://old.reddit.com/user/lispm http://lispm.de/
e2afb122b3e8cd26…380a750d…2024-03-06 15:10:36 <dulapbot> Logged on 2024-02-27 05:10:23 crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: in unrelated news does anyone know what happened to Rainer Joswig?
dfdda33cb7698bbf…b7698bbf…2024-03-06 15:21:00 <crtdaydreams> his blog looks like it was last updated in 2023
9c1b8b4edfdda33c…dfdda33c…2024-03-06 15:21:53 <crtdaydreams> well, it's not much of a blog, more of just a website
58779d1b9fe0e419…9fe0e419…2024-03-10 13:33:57 <hapax> there seems to be little to no traffic on weekends, huh?
e7042e1eb345e80e…64c3ff6d…2024-03-10 13:36:17 <awt_akris> Ah yes!. Neat. I notice your messages appear to be showing up as multiline. What station implementation are you using?
d4ffe445e7042e1e…b345e80e…2024-03-10 13:41:45 <hapax> huh, they seem okay on my end. i'm using jonsykkel's smalpest and connecting to it via erc
55085557d4ffe445…e7042e1e…2024-03-10 13:42:06 <awt_akris> Yeah they look fine in the weblog too. Must be something weird about how my station is handling them. Maybe some cr/lf issue.
ddee5c8355085557…d4ffe445…2024-03-10 13:43:55 <hapax> first thing i thought of as well, suspected it might be on my end somewhere
a57fdd8756a53c06…56a53c06…2024-03-10 13:46:15 <hapax> (unless erc messes something up and the bot conveniently ignores it)
51ecf0dba57fdd87…a57fdd87…2024-03-10 13:47:13 <hapax> probably not a smalpest problem, would've been caught earlier (i'm using the latest git version)
bc6e4ae251ecf0db…55085557…2024-03-10 13:48:27 <awt_akris> Yeah I don't think anyone else will see it, as I'm the only one using this particular station implementation, and it's the only one that does multiline display afaik.
4d41a127bc6e4ae2…51ecf0db…2024-03-10 13:57:11 <hapax> you're using akris, right? (i mean, according to your handle)
04be6ed5fbd78a88…fbd78a88…2024-03-10 13:58:14 <hapax> (i might not be up to date, have only been lurking sporadically past few months)
de70260404be6ed5…04be6ed5…2024-03-10 13:58:32 <hapax> the rest of the folks still on the old version?
a96200c2de702604…306a21b3…2024-03-10 13:57:49 <awt_akris> It's kind of a re-write of blatta with bugfixes + a gui.
903dd8a8d21e4b8d…d21e4b8d…2024-03-10 14:01:40 <hapax> my peststation currently only has a text terminal i/o and unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) doesn't run python
4735e891903dd8a8…903dd8a8…2024-03-10 14:02:11 <hapax> so smalpest is the only way to go for me unless i write my own implementation
ad43c2dd84f495a3…84f495a3…2024-03-10 14:02:50 <hapax> but i thought about trying to run smalpest on dos
9d6e29a287b98de4…02d3cf0a…2024-03-10 14:05:52 <hapax> got the static smalpest at around 190k with musl-1.2.4 and gcc-4.9.4
47a6a21eb5cb6391…b5cb6391…2024-03-10 14:08:11 <hapax> right now if you wanna do posix-like on dos it's either glibc or various incompatible libcs bundled with c compilers (with incompatible versions of c)
e994a89f47a6a21e…47a6a21e…2024-03-10 14:08:32 <hapax> you can get it to work (sometimes with effort), but it's not out of the box
2a6f7af2e994a89f…e994a89f…2024-03-10 14:08:57 <hapax> i wanted to try the musl approach with my ada runtime for dos (ward)
4011134f2a6f7af2…2a6f7af2…2024-03-10 14:09:21 <hapax> should compile without any problems on a stock gcc with only a few modifications
c1a31a234011134f…4011134f…2024-03-10 14:11:49 <hapax> and it talks directly to the kernel ave1-style (without going through libc like stdlibs for other languages)
3f3871e704897227…04897227…2024-03-10 15:45:48 <asciilifeform> re dos, a useful (but afaik not exists yet) item: 64bit extender, a la dos32a, dos4gw, etc ( dos not necessarily sits on 486... )
0caede753f3871e7…3f3871e7…2024-03-10 15:46:11 <asciilifeform> (would make for a faster ffa there, among other things)
3bbf12d57573e0a0…7573e0a0…2024-03-10 15:48:22 <hapax> i agree, i thought about how something like that could've worked
ce952027aafbbc54…aafbbc54…2024-03-10 15:49:55 <hapax> i remember some of the freedos folks were once aiming for a "protected mode" dos
12c7329961b2d0e7…61b2d0e7…2024-03-10 15:50:28 <hapax> identity mapping the entire available mem, ring 0 only, etc.
9b73750e476f57b9…0caede75…2024-03-10 15:51:23 <asciilifeform> the orig rationale for 'ffa on dos' was 'crypto on nicless/airgapped box, single-tasking, 0 extraneous softs, boot in <1s', roughly
fe3a16fc4a944aee…4a944aee…2024-03-10 15:52:03 <asciilifeform> the iron not necessarily needs to be vintage/32b
a5ef4917fe3a16fc…476f57b9…2024-03-10 15:57:25 <hapax> i'd have to check how much work it would take to actually port dpmi to amd64
ae27d39da5ef4917…a5ef4917…2024-03-10 15:57:52 <hapax> some of the api can stay 32b, but all the memory references would have to be extended
95cf48a1ae27d39d…ae27d39d…2024-03-10 15:58:24 <hapax> i guess dos64a is not impossible, but it would take time
e3d12c6d95cf48a1…95cf48a1…2024-03-10 15:58:58 <hapax> i actually never got to properly testing the speed of ffa on my opteron
0c7f9a73e3d12c6d…fe3a16fc…2024-03-10 15:58:18 <asciilifeform> in variant where all i/o via uart, not even need the dos... bare iron would work just same
f0cb48aea2bc3595…0c7f9a73…2024-03-10 15:59:19 asciilifeform on a break from commercial worx, and very recently picked ffa back up, there's several unreleased chapters from 2020 that need cleanup
20aec93aa2bc3595…a2bc3595…2024-03-10 16:00:19 <hapax> i was thinking more of running the litmus.sh signature checker, etc.
c8b11a93b875847f…f0cb48ae…2024-03-10 16:00:17 <asciilifeform> extended-gcd, in particular (can't generate rsa keys w/out it)
0e91fcfcb875847f…b875847f…2024-03-10 16:01:08 <hapax> btw, i've managed to run litmus.sh on ash (busybox)
b2c119100e91fcfc…0e91fcfc…2024-03-10 16:01:19 <hapax> needed just a few changes to make it posix-compatible
a8c5b9293cc98839…c8b11a93…2024-03-10 16:00:55 <asciilifeform> hapax: when you get a chance, plz post the patch, i'ma include it
ee5d05afd6f2c9c7…a8c5b929…2024-03-10 16:01:49 <asciilifeform> btw hapax, do make peerings w/ other people, 1 of the major wins of pest net is resilience of links
6934d1fb828293cf…7279de31…2024-03-10 17:32:07 <jonsykkel> re crlf ur mesages hapax has a 0a in end (http://zzz.st/pest/), id gues the irc client sends a extra 0a and smalpest dosnt catch it (wander who wrote that pile of trasj) so just passes it on to pest mesage
70717526828293cf…828293cf…2024-03-11 18:58:04 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-10#1033250 << interesting
bc30e11b6934d1fb…9c1b8b4e…2024-03-13 00:25:41 <crtdaydreams> hapax: what was your webshit again? for logs
3ce0339370717526…70717526…2024-03-11 18:58:17 <hapax> seems erc doesn't have an obvious knob to turn it off
c15dc02b3ce03393…3ce03393…2024-03-11 18:59:53 <hapax> asciilifeform: been thinking about the "ffa on bare iron"
a633791cc15dc02b…c15dc02b…2024-03-11 19:00:54 <hapax> and i think it's not really complicated to implement at this point
3eb6f39ca633791c…a633791c…2024-03-11 19:01:18 <hapax> i mean, ward right now contains enough "runtime" to run peh+ffa
f0052c263eb6f39c…3eb6f39c…2024-03-11 19:02:21 <hapax> and, since there's no need for working along other programs in dos userspace (as you wanna go uart), the start.s can just be a long mode setup
fdae1623f0052c26…f0052c26…2024-03-11 19:03:06 <hapax> (entirely doable within one hd sector, done it before, you probably did as well, but i haven't studied your "toystore os" you once posted)
7ed502e8fdae1623…01eb8098…2024-03-11 19:07:20 asciilifeform iirc had a loader-and-longmode-in-1-sector but maybe not in the tar ref'd above
21403f587ed502e8…7ed502e8…2024-03-11 19:07:56 <asciilifeform> not had the identity mapping of memory tho, or irq init
0ce760c180d7cbf6…415249b1…2024-03-11 19:08:45 <asciilifeform> needs decently-sized stack tho, + however much reseve for tape
2febaa989e8b07f5…9e8b07f5…2024-03-11 19:06:34 <hapax> i'm thinking of int 13hing it out of the drive to memory
bc1f3caf110238ad…9cd7ff1f…2024-03-11 19:09:54 <asciilifeform> ('first pillage, then burn', however, int13 from disk ~before~ longmoad)
3c53ab27bc1f3caf…110238ad…2024-03-11 19:07:20 <hapax> and, dunno, knob at compile time to set how much ram for stack, how much for tape
fb62604c25bd1b7f…25bd1b7f…2024-03-11 19:11:52 asciilifeform notes, re: possible field applications of 'dos ffa', that not 1 single fg purchaser asked for the rs232 plug. tho it aint difficult to buy off shelf
6d4039e7f01007cf…fb62604c…2024-03-11 19:12:31 <asciilifeform> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch21a-ter/limits__ads.htm#25_4
9299324a6d4039e7…6d4039e7…2024-03-11 19:13:23 <asciilifeform> if yer already switching into 32/64, may as well allow tapespace to fill whatever you got
24570caa164acb0c…9299324a…2024-03-11 19:13:46 <asciilifeform> (with coupla MB reserved for machine stack)
857fec7a24570caa…164acb0c…2024-03-11 19:11:18 <hapax> oh, you mean filling it before going long mode?
d34af6609a4fc6bb…24570caa…2024-03-11 19:14:46 <asciilifeform> no reason why dos conventional mem limit oughta apply to anything in dos ffa
ee7d5a12d34af660…9a4fc6bb…2024-03-11 19:12:29 <hapax> sure, but i'm worried about loading it up in long mode
3d5fb198d34af660…d34af660…2024-03-11 19:15:10 <asciilifeform> i.e. once you're in 32 (or long), oughta be able to access all of physical mem as 1 segment
60fd12633629a207…3629a207…2024-03-11 19:13:13 <hapax> i wanted int 13h first, get it to <640k, long mode + identity mapping after that
9292ef1b3629a207…3d5fb198…2024-03-11 19:15:55 <asciilifeform> naturally gotta load from disk while int13 still worx (or yer stuck introducing nonportable i/o crapolade)
1c45d1d6ea7f4005…444b7165…2024-03-11 19:13:36 <hapax> therefore, long mode after loading peh to memory
78a7a7e382a62de8…026fde17…2024-03-11 19:17:28 <asciilifeform> yea there's no reason to ever exit. zap when tape ends & eat (possible) new tape, until poweroff
e5c6e10d78a7a7e3…78a7a7e3…2024-03-11 19:17:58 <asciilifeform> 'ada handily provides a loop with no termination condition, because traditionally the termination condition was detonation'(tm)(r)(fughetwhere)
dffa98df1bfb231c…1bfb231c…2024-03-11 19:16:20 <hapax> i might try it later, probably won't even require any changes to gcc
216243bcdffa98df…e5c6e10d…2024-03-11 19:19:20 <asciilifeform> the 1 gotcha afaik, is that there's nothing resembling a fallback rng on typical naked pc iron
2dde4486216243bc…dffa98df…2024-03-11 19:17:22 <hapax> yeah, well, i thought an fg is a must in this case
f75cc13f2dde4486…216243bc…2024-03-11 19:20:40 <asciilifeform> not necessarily fg, but asciilifeform not knows of a serial port rng that is reasonably safe to eat raw
61769a40f75cc13f…f75cc13f…2024-03-11 19:20:46 <asciilifeform> obv folx can plug in whatever they like.
3fd160eae5843f97…e5843f97…2024-03-11 19:21:56 <asciilifeform> phunphakt: there was at one time a (reasonably good, if extremely slow) trng hack for msdos
b70579f2a6533aa9…a6533aa9…2024-03-11 19:22:27 <asciilifeform> afaik lost to the sands of time, but potentially could be recreated for use as fallback
1946038ccbec7882…b70579f2…2024-03-11 19:23:40 <asciilifeform> idea is, if you have rdtsc (pentium & up), can make use of jitter in diff b/w int18's timer and it
3feec2671946038c…1946038c…2024-03-11 19:23:59 <asciilifeform> (given as they came from physically separate crystals)
fa3386c2d5cd742a…d5cd742a…2024-03-11 19:24:44 <asciilifeform> not a substitute for an actual trng, but considerable improvement over mashing keys & similar a la orig pgp
cfa5338cfa3386c2…fa3386c2…2024-03-11 19:25:32 <asciilifeform> 'HPET' (iron 2005 & up) anuther crystal still.
ab64bdc7cfa5338c…cfa5338c…2024-03-11 19:26:19 <asciilifeform> where no rdtsc, used simple increment loop.
1f7bf31cab64bdc7…ab64bdc7…2024-03-11 19:26:40 <asciilifeform> anyways it aint as if there's a hurry, for this.
a4602dd31f7bf31c…cbec7882…2024-03-11 19:24:57 <hapax> sure, i wanted to try a "peh(1) for plan9" first
cd0fe7871f7bf31c…1f7bf31c…2024-03-11 19:27:37 <asciilifeform> hpex: outta curiosity, what motivated you to put in the sweat for your dos port ?
3b468ca7a4602dd3…cd0fe787…2024-03-11 19:27:55 <asciilifeform> iirc phf into plan9, maybe will take an interest in that one
6aeaa613935ebf70…935ebf70…2024-03-11 19:26:02 <hapax> i actually did most of the job on, i believe, summer 2021
17780cf4b3348f51…b3348f51…2024-03-11 19:26:37 <hapax> i've actually been learning ada with the ffa series
416faa5b17780cf4…17780cf4…2024-03-11 19:26:53 <hapax> (reading some other sources as well, but ffa is a great introduction)
4bf05cc6416faa5b…416faa5b…2024-03-11 19:27:24 <hapax> i also really like dos for some reason, the only usable os that "fits in head," at least for me
5502a7757fd86f34…7fd86f34…2024-03-11 19:28:01 <hapax> first version, back then, was using a gcc-8 or something like that
aafd51c75502a775…3b468ca7…2024-03-11 19:30:51 <asciilifeform> hapax: ffa was originally for a 'realtime' application, but this fell through, asciilifeform decided that it oughta be turned into a rationally-designed replacement for gpg et al
fc8f9aaabccf9687…bccf9687…2024-03-11 19:29:00 <hapax> so i tried making an ada dev stack with gcc-4.9.4
9473eea6fc8f9aaa…fc8f9aaa…2024-03-11 19:29:13 <hapax> (since it does work more reliably than newer versions)
ca266daf9473eea6…9473eea6…2024-03-11 19:29:26 <hapax> tried playing with extenders, figured out dos32a, managed to make a tsr
5f95baf0ca266daf…aafd51c7…2024-03-11 19:32:24 <asciilifeform> ^ last version used by asciilifeform , as immediately after that one, was catastrophically broken in various ways
1d12afdd5f95baf0…ca266daf…2024-03-11 19:29:57 <hapax> and i wanted to have peh on my dos machines, since i sometimes use it as a desk calculator
de335f4a917d0123…917d0123…2024-03-11 19:33:51 asciilifeform grew up with the mostly-identical mk61 but yes
758f1dc8de335f4a…edf5d1e9…2024-03-11 19:31:31 <hapax> asciilifeform: yeah, i got the "use <gcc5" from you guys
79d7c2f9758f1dc8…de335f4a…2024-03-11 19:34:34 <asciilifeform> the details of why, are amply expanded on in the logs, yea
c0130d2c79d7c2f9…758f1dc8…2024-03-11 19:32:55 <hapax> been reading it and growing suspicious of it, but what really did it for me was the code being optimized away
39ffd4ea02968624…79d7c2f9…2024-03-11 19:36:21 <asciilifeform> famously gcc5 snips out crypto zeroizations
471db6fd42e5ab2e…42e5ab2e…2024-03-11 19:34:15 <hapax> at least a code like that will pretend to work correctly
2b5cd91642e5ab2e…39ffd4ea…2024-03-11 19:36:51 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform not even knows if affects all backends, incl ada's, but is supremely annoying and the simplest cure is to avoid gcc>=5 )
0485a6fc13a7392b…13a7392b…2024-03-11 19:34:50 <hapax> no idea what happened there and why gcc even thought it would be a good idea
cebabaf513a7392b…2b5cd916…2024-03-11 19:37:31 <asciilifeform> possibly curable by declaring the working memory as volatile
d25dcf08e216efc2…e216efc2…2024-03-11 19:35:18 <hapax> on gcc4 it just works(tm), so i don't complain
2434447e780d0f3e…d25dcf08…2024-03-11 19:35:49 <hapax> i compiled the entire system with it, completely musltronic, etc.
fe7418980109dd28…0109dd28…2024-03-11 19:36:28 <hapax> a road through hell, doing it all from scratch, my gcc is patched to oblivion
f3792aa4fe741898…403a6360…2024-03-11 19:39:30 <asciilifeform> hapax: ever looked at signpost's gcc ?
fbda4a0cc3a16e23…fe741898…2024-03-11 19:37:06 <hapax> i think i did at some point, i even have some of the same patches
d709e8bdfca60b63…c3a16e23…2024-03-11 19:40:03 <asciilifeform> ( iirc started with ave1's , but went considerably farther )
75f58c9412128875…bc30e11b…2024-03-13 23:04:58 <crtdaydreams> speaking of gcc: they had to implement error checking for the usage of xor as exponentiaion
2e756b5943ef120f…d709e8bd…2024-03-11 19:40:47 <asciilifeform> signpost: i'ma mirror , when you get a chance to stand yours up
16fefdc075f58c94…75f58c94…2024-03-13 23:05:28 <crtdaydreams> maybe it's one of those "great filters" and needs to be there to stop stupid people from ever picking up a compiler
c64762cc2e756b59…43ef120f…2024-03-11 19:38:09 <hapax> i had to patch some other things to, new c standard apparently allows omitting names for unused parameters
43f7b0dec64762cc…c64762cc…2024-03-11 19:38:39 <hapax> (i think i needed that for some alsa utils or something like that, my machine doesn't have x, but it has a soundblaster onboard)
90a08d1ad793998e…d793998e…2024-03-14 01:21:40 <crtdaydreams> I'm trying to emerge gcc-4.9.4 on a bleeding edge gentoo, I've copied over the /var/db/pkg/sys-devel/gcc-4.9.4 directory (which includes the .ebuild) and I opted to download the patchset and source from the distfiles directory on dulap.xyz which I've copied the gcc-4.9.4 tarball (unpatched) into distfiles
300f636890a08d1a…90a08d1a…2024-03-14 01:22:44 <crtdaydreams> am I missing something? emerge =gcc-4.9.4 yields no results, do I need to do some kind of refresh of the package repository?
d711165eb678a895…43f7b0de…2024-03-12 23:40:12 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-12#1033385 << i'd have to try to reconstruct the exact conditions (good thing would be to have the entire process repeatable, to test it on various gccs, etc.)
73561804300f6368…300f6368…2024-03-14 01:29:17 <crtdaydreams> to clarify the ebuild was yoinked from the dulap construction kit
62fda8d5d711165e…d711165e…2024-03-12 23:42:16 <hapax> unfortunately i didn't save in back then, but i do have the faulty compiler and the entire system it ran on, so it's surely not impossible to replicate it (it was something like a int2str routine, been testing dos32a)
2fb1172273561804…73561804…2024-03-14 03:51:10 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-07-28#1112472 << I would like to confirm that it does not work wouldn't have worked at the time of this message, the dist I'm doing this on is from 2022-06 and eutils.eclass is deprecated
54bfea8162fda8d5…62fda8d5…2024-03-12 23:43:33 <hapax> but i'll put it on my roster, i believe everyone would benefit from a summary like that, so the more documented material the better
8a9cc8d82fb11722…2fb11722…2024-03-14 03:56:06 <crtdaydreams> upon further inspection even toolchain.eclass will fail citing that the gcc version itself is too old.
f3600c4f6bef159a…6bef159a…2024-03-12 15:09:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-11#1032803 << would make for an a++ article btw, if you've the cycles
6127ecbe54bfea81…54bfea81…2024-03-13 20:40:55 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-12#1033391 << hapax legomenon, not much content though (yet)
1baadb9f8a9cc8d8…8a9cc8d8…2024-03-14 03:56:52 <crtdaydreams> "tc_version_is_at_least 8 || die "${ECLASS}: ${GCC_RELEASE_VER} is too old."
812fa12df3600c4f…f3600c4f…2024-03-12 15:09:56 <asciilifeform> (afaik there aint currently a good 1-page summary of gcc5ism)
cbd6d6c91baadb9f…1baadb9f…2024-03-14 04:00:14 <crtdaydreams> unless there's something in the patchsets that fixes this, I can only assume it would take a considerable amount of fondling to get working
430e7923cbd6d6c9…cbd6d6c9…2024-03-22 12:59:59 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-20#1033520 << hey now, it's wireless technology, introducing the new "Internet of Things!"
42d5306fc1b31c39…c1b31c39…2024-03-13 20:43:21 <hapax> but i try to read up on it when i have time (not much lately, unfortunately)
7649bf4ef165538e…f165538e…2024-03-13 20:48:20 <awt_akris> Read most of the Anabasis in Greek. Haven't done much with it since then.
8f93449b430e7923…430e7923…2024-03-22 13:00:32 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-20#1033522 << something something happy hunger games!
65f975f88c060232…8c060232…2024-03-13 20:46:57 <hapax> i'd love to read the works of aristophanes one day
138670881b0ed62d…d87ba225…2024-03-15 17:14:23 <awt_akris> Lol tiktok is currently providing customers a discount of 99% on some of my shirts.
41ea43fbe4f19baa…e4f19baa…2024-03-16 11:59:54 <hapax> asciilifeform: been testing litmus.sh and i found some weird behavior around this part
3a9eceb47a2f3e49…13867088…2024-03-15 17:18:57 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-12-05#1031448
d2138a3741ea43fb…41ea43fb…2024-03-16 12:00:50 <hapax> obviously the rsa_byteness and rsa_width calculations are correct re the signature, but it seems to choke when validating a vpatch i signed
3c1d2874d2138a37…d2138a37…2024-03-16 12:01:17 <hapax> (it's from before i realized i left some emacs garbage when running vdiff)
0b0bede0f3d64a86…f3d64a86…2024-03-16 12:02:11 <hapax> now, it's either my gpg acting up or rsa_bitness full octet short is perfectly legal in pgpland (for the record, i can't see why it shouldn't be)
b48a56280b0bede0…0b0bede0…2024-03-16 12:02:46 <hapax> the tape runs perfectly with bitness selected manually (and gpg itself doesn't choke when run the "orthodox" way)
17183a3bb48a5628…b48a5628…2024-03-16 12:05:09 <hapax> an obvious fits-in-head pill would probably be loop until popcnt(++rsa_width) = 1 if it doesn't at first, but i wonder what's your take on it
bddf076617183a3b…7a2f3e49…2024-03-16 14:23:01 <asciilifeform> hapax: ty, interesting find. feel free to post patch (i'ma mirror it)
d75679abbc66945c…bc66945c…2024-03-31 15:41:39 <hapax> asciilifeform: i finally published the litmus.sh patch, both posix-compatibility changes and the fix for the shorter signatures
3b540008d75679ab…d75679ab…2024-03-31 15:44:41 <hapax> works like a charm on bash and busybox (ash), i'll try to test it on the original ksh93 as well when i log in to the machine where i have one (korn claims in his book it's 100% posix-compatible)
69f77a2890bb5945…20b9cd0b…2024-03-19 14:45:42 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in misc. lulz from these fine folx (w/ oblig. stab at asciilifeform's worx, 'spamming attack on bitcoin codebase maintenance' didjaknow)
dc761e52476d0fd1…476d0fd1…2024-05-01 00:50:54 <hapax> if there are any texnicians interested, baking recipe for vintage tex on modern irons
1f52d3addc761e52…dc761e52…2024-05-01 00:51:14 <hapax> (runs on dos fwiw, including metafont's showit command, i.e., the online display)
acf72bbdccd8893f…12128875…2024-03-20 17:06:40 <signpost> still strange to see something written in the imitative form of tmsr.
ed076104b69ccad4…574e43b5…2024-03-31 20:45:39 <billymg> hapax: nice layout, colors, and type on the blog
e10704b11f52d3ad…be2bd735…2024-05-01 01:31:49 <asciilifeform> hapax: neato, will read. (curious what the output format is, and with what can view it under dos...)
64d852601f52d3ad…1f52d3ad…2024-05-01 06:32:12 <hapax> asciilifeform: if you don't mind spoilers, it generates knuthian "dvi" files (the included dvitype utility basically disassembles the file, so possible to play with and see how tex reacts to various inputs)
bba3d925acf72bbd…acf72bbd…2024-03-20 17:07:08 <signpost> good for them to have an heirloom reason to wake up in the morning, better than nothing.
1320a61de10704b1…e10704b1…2024-05-01 01:32:15 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-04-30#1033175 << 'arrested in spain' oughta be a lolcatmeme by nao
64c10d9864d85260…64d85260…2024-05-01 06:33:22 <hapax> metafont, on the other hand, basically bakes rasters out of font definitions (along with font metrics), but you have to fine-tune it for your printer
e9f4dff3bba3d925…bba3d925…2024-03-20 17:07:51 signpost still quite interested in what placehood can be achieved in pest.
d8180c38a49f0c7e…a49f0c7e…2024-04-01 00:35:31 asciilifeform currently occupied with meatspace chores, but will be back in biz in coming days
fb9923e11320a61d…1320a61d…2024-05-01 01:33:00 <asciilifeform> (seems to be the standard formula for 'thought he got outta reich, but when needed, found and stuffed into a sack and brought in'
9ef749bb64c10d98…64c10d98…2024-05-01 06:34:08 <hapax> modes even have parameters like additional blackness, compensation for fillin, reduction in overshoot . . .
2f308643e9f4dff3…e9f4dff3…2024-03-20 17:09:05 <signpost> grunted the erasure code C impl to a working state with single solver thread recently. working towards a demonstration of swarm download, then perhaps will work up a toy implementation of initiating same via one of the pest clients.
648622119ef749bb…9ef749bb…2024-05-01 06:35:24 <hapax> i once wrote a converter to bmp, both formats are documented in the sources (if you install tex, weave the sources and find a suitable dvi2pdf converter, can even read the specs in their full glory!)
9205ae062f308643…2f308643…2024-03-20 17:12:41 <signpost> would look something like the following: 1) I issue a broadcast request for an item of $HASH to my L1, 2) they optionally reply in the affirmative, 3) I individually request m of n encoded blocks from a selection of my peers, who may send 0 or more encoded blocks in response 4) repeat #3 until I have enough encoded blocks
15dde667b3195dc9…b3195dc9…2024-05-01 01:35:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-04-30#1033179 << nuffin unprecedented there, old church kaput, new one takes its place.
0195390264862211…64862211…2024-05-01 06:38:42 <hapax> entirely possible to bake a dos dvi reader, would have to tune mf for display and just render the rasters and rules according to instructions (format is easy, basically "put a character 15 in current font," "skip down," "draw a rule," etc.)
1f45508b15dde667…15dde667…2024-05-01 01:37:00 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-04-30#1033176 << see also.
cf4df73801953902…01953902…2024-05-01 06:44:21 <hapax> metafont itself can render fonts when you work with them, my implementation talks to the graph unit (compatible with borland's), so it's possible to check out the characters (fun fact: without any modifications, works best on mswin, graph even happily allocated an entire 1080p screen, but entirely possible on dos as well i
9d9568112db9a983…2db9a983…2024-03-20 17:16:47 <signpost> of note is the lack of need for complicated orchestration by a "tracker" while achieving both an efficient swarm download, minimal size overhead of the encoding vs original payload, and robustness against loss (which may be even more useful on lossier mediums for pest, i.e. radio, stego, etc)
f94387011f45508b…1f45508b…2024-05-01 01:41:00 <asciilifeform> 'jizzus', evidently, already coughed up enuff coin, on the rack, to lavishly refill waterfall.
277e1a51cf4df738…cf4df738…2024-05-01 06:44:21 <hapax> f you're really nice to your ega during initialization)
1321014a9d956811…9d956811…2024-03-20 17:33:27 <signpost> http://jfxpt.com/2024/on-the-fact-that-bitcoind-fails-to-implement-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-2622 << nut up.
90b29d69277e1a51…c95f698b…2024-05-01 19:24:51 <signpost> dugin seemed pretty reasonable / unremarkable in the interview. I'm completely ignorant re: his views otherwise.
c086984f277e1a51…277e1a51…2024-06-02 01:04:07 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-01#1033837 << i always have ambivalent feelings when it comes to plan9
e00efb891321014a…1321014a…2024-03-20 17:44:43 <signpost> on that subj anyone rec a cheap webhost? my last one's fired after they refused to send me the hard drive that failed.
7a56b77c90b29d69…90b29d69…2024-05-01 19:26:00 signpost mildly curious whether USG is priming for a Traditional Savior figure by having a literal ex-Fox News talking head do these interviews.
7cc3fe5bc086984f…c086984f…2024-06-02 01:04:32 <hapax> on one hand, the idea to fight the c preprocessing hell is rather commendable
3c9660d17a56b77c…7a56b77c…2024-05-01 19:28:04 <signpost> might be giving way too much credit with the speculation.
d756a4447cc3fe5b…7cc3fe5b…2024-06-02 01:04:43 <hapax> on the other, we get a mouse-driven text editor
a60ab8de65a46588…65a46588…2024-03-20 17:45:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032903 << 404 ?
4b2430713c9660d1…3c9660d1…2024-05-02 17:02:39 <signpost> btw my chicken bones say the dip is over unless transaction fees decline. putting it on record so I can laugh at myself later.
dea4cb43d756a444…d756a444…2024-06-02 01:05:03 <hapax> worth looking into, but not worth building a cargo cult around (like cat-v did)
f780075da60ab8de…a60ab8de…2024-03-20 17:47:04 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032899 << asciilifeform would like to play with it when it is out, has some time on his hands
574470014b243071…4b243071…2024-05-02 18:24:22 <signpost> I've got that ass-backwards. fees buy hashes.
c9e6ca00dea4cb43…e188f2b0…2024-06-03 20:49:06 <awt_akris> Odd. Didn't get crtdaydreams messages when syncing.
c8600b55dea4cb43…dea4cb43…2024-06-23 17:52:44 <hapax> gregorynyssa: what asciilifeform said in practice (as seen here)
57b9d181f780075d…e00efb89…2024-03-20 17:47:27 <signpost> link works over here, just told them to get on pest and argue with you the next time they're feeling coy
21b60e35c9e6ca00…9eca6fb2…2024-06-04 15:56:35 <signpost> https://t.me/Bratchuk_Sergey/87071 << these stupid fucks are trying to damage early warning radar.
84a1812bc8600b55…c8600b55…2024-06-23 17:53:00 <hapax> makes "cryptography" a rather pleasant experience
0524f89157b9d181…57b9d181…2024-03-20 17:47:56 <signpost> and yeah, will post soon as I stand up a box into which to poast.
c9922bfb836c733d…cee684f8…2024-04-07 16:47:19 asciilifeform was a bit surprised to learn that the sr confiscatolade exchrate extinguisher is still ~2/3 full and spraying actively
ef574445566e1984…f9438701…2024-05-02 18:29:16 asciilifeform fwiw by default suspects umpteenth dip is simply waterfall action
3c0d7fc721b60e35…21b60e35…2024-06-04 15:56:55 <signpost> they have earned whatever nukes they receive.
fc1c1a7284a1812b…84a1812b…2024-06-23 17:53:20 <hapax> at the very least, can see own key and verify with own eyes what exactly is going on with it
afc628e90524f891…1cca281b…2024-03-20 17:50:22 <asciilifeform> last knew, jfw et al were still (4+y!) 'reverse engineering' fg
0382dc20c9922bfb…836c733d…2024-04-07 16:49:58 <signpost> working pretty hard with not much to show for it, if dumping 100s of thousands of coins = stable at 70k
5a32219def574445…ef574445…2024-05-02 18:30:27 <asciilifeform> ( amplified, as always, by liquidations of leveraged positions )
9290a5173c0d7fc7…3c0d7fc7…2024-06-06 16:06:33 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/russian-warships-steam-caribbean-ukraine-tensions-go-global << whole planet's going full retard.
1ab7145afc1c1a72…fc1c1a72…2024-06-24 16:10:13 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-23#1033975 << thank you! glad if you found it interesting
166bf323afc628e9…afc628e9…2024-03-20 17:50:38 asciilifeform not holds breath for'em to come in an' ask
0ea963e55a32219d…566e1984…2024-05-02 18:31:38 <signpost> orange line is just (btc_hashrate / (blockSubsidy + block_fee) / btc_supply) / math.pow(10, 6)
378fece19290a517…fd94525b…2024-06-06 16:12:07 <PeterL> Everybody is talking about what is happening in Gaza, we need to drum up the "Save Guayana" protests!
50c47f1b1ab7145a…1ab7145a…2024-06-24 16:10:57 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-23#1033976 << jonsykkel's smalpest, my peststation is pythonless, so the only alternative would be to write my own
1d040ba6166bf323…166bf323…2024-03-20 17:53:45 <asciilifeform> and they're still selling (yes) the lulzy optoisolator asciilifeform tested & junked in '17, believe or not
cbb408810ea963e5…0ea963e5…2024-05-02 18:33:07 <signpost> but yes, hoarders can always dump. fwiw miners hold about 10x usg if you believe glassnode.
de959a5f378fece1…9290a517…2024-06-06 16:15:02 <signpost> the empire's going to end up drawn and quartered, walking itself right into it.
71093a5350c47f1b…50c47f1b…2024-06-24 16:11:34 <hapax> i find it quite satisfying though, it's so small it integrates well with my system (when it comes to privileges, directories, running, logging, etc.), can be compiled with gcc-4.9.4 and linked statically against musl without any problems, and the source is well organized and readable
3f793c3e1d040ba6…1d040ba6…2024-03-20 17:54:29 <asciilifeform> the 1 where the fiber was held in by a screw which came undone when room temp changed
535a8f5daaf523f8…aaf523f8…2024-04-07 16:50:48 <asciilifeform> adj'd for usd printolade flood, exchrate not substantially moved in... 4y?
6bf6f5fbcbb40881…cbb40881…2024-05-02 18:33:58 signpost operating from the hypothesis that the market always re-establishes supply v demand dynamics attached to $ per hash in the long run.
c677843871093a53…71093a53…2024-06-24 16:11:45 <hapax> so it's not like i'm looking for an alternative right now
d3f9f97f3f793c3e…3f793c3e…2024-03-20 17:55:28 <asciilifeform> + buncha whackamole with trb (with oblig. pissing on all prior work) and some c utils.
c1aeed48535a8f5d…07209b85…2024-04-07 16:50:50 <signpost> the gold price looks like they're losing control.
ebd699866bf6f5fb…5a32219d…2024-05-02 18:35:22 <asciilifeform> the weak link there, suspect, is 'long run'. ('market can ???? far longer than you can remain solvent'(tm)(r)(c))
dfc62572ab1ba8aa…ab1ba8aa…2024-06-06 16:16:03 <signpost> whatever other moronic wars I forgot to mention.
031f5abbc6778438…c6778438…2024-08-25 06:28:18 <hapax> all fun and games until pest ceo gets arrested
cb7c46e1d3f9f97f…d3f9f97f…2024-03-20 17:56:05 asciilifeform wonders what they're living on. guesses -- coin piggy
1e3ce197ebd69986…ebd69986…2024-05-02 18:37:06 <asciilifeform> orthogonally, 'market' presently consists of over9000 casino gamblers who are occupied mainly with guessing where usg is gonna park a freshly-printed $maxint this quarter, and making leveraged bets on same
a6060d37dfc62572…dfc62572…2024-06-06 16:16:57 <signpost> bled in each with "inferior" weaponry, aka cost effective.
5d5a79a1031f5abb…031f5abb…2024-08-25 06:28:40 <hapax> or worse---banned from appstore, removed from github
76c1e678cb7c46e1…5e6a4494…2024-03-20 22:09:12 <billymg> i actually had the pleasure of meeting jfw recently. he stayed in one of my cabinas during a short visit to cr. very friendly and polite, whaack also came over at one point to shoot the shit for a bit
e77e5902525586d2…c1aeed48…2024-04-07 16:55:26 <signpost> everything "would be up more" but my butt says they're losing control of the traitors they use to suppress.
7533f85f1e3ce197…1e3ce197…2024-05-02 18:37:22 <asciilifeform> (rather than what most sane folx typically think of as 'market')
9c659cc4a6060d37…a6060d37…2024-06-06 16:17:49 <signpost> quick google suggests one himars unit was about 5mil in 2018 dollars
435079cd76c1e678…3a9eceb4…2024-03-20 22:05:34 <awt_akris> I had the same impression, although he was unfortunately not interested in Pest.
86ad57b3e77e5902…e77e5902…2024-04-07 16:55:48 <signpost> chicoms are accumulating the hell out of physical gold atm.
758a14237533f85f…6bf6f5fb…2024-05-02 18:38:53 <signpost> that's the experiment, eh? can the btc ratchet escape usd?
b16cea9a9c659cc4…9c659cc4…2024-06-06 16:18:37 <signpost> PeterL: did you catch tucker's bukele interview yet? sense I got was that bukele genuinely can't understand why a place he once admired would do this to itself.
bc03ea9cea7153ff…ea7153ff…2024-12-24 11:45:37 <hapax> http://146.190.13.172/articles/static-x-server/
e5af7a0d435079cd…76c1e678…2024-03-20 22:12:16 <billymg> i don't think they're living off of a coin piggy, i think they're just living as frugally as necessary to continue their works (which i found admirable tbh), but you'd have to ask them
584f45a386ad57b3…525586d2…2024-04-07 16:58:33 <asciilifeform> afaik au exchrate is suppressed via paper au, which is still going, and w/ little substantial diff b/w price of the genuine article and the imaginary au
99f8c24ccd21ef99…6513b212…2024-08-25 18:32:30 <signpost> asciilifeform, phf, and others who knew him, I deeply regret to inform that bv has passed away in a mountain-biking accident.
8ad45211e5af7a0d…0524f891…2024-03-20 23:07:42 signpost thinks men should have their fights directly.
72683ede584f45a3…584f45a3…2024-04-07 16:59:35 <asciilifeform> same method as the 1 moar recently introduced for btc
9612f9131bec4b05…1bec4b05…2024-05-02 18:40:09 <asciilifeform> (pertinently, btc not actually recovered 2020 exchrate, if one adjusts for realinflation(tm), needs arguably 100+k $ for this)
25da8f413caa1ab1…6855145f…2024-06-06 16:24:23 <asciilifeform> signpost: 'to itself' is artifact of fundamentally broken model: lizards don't live in $country in the sense that humans do
8d92ed2699f8c24c…99f8c24c…2024-08-25 18:33:03 signpost and others who loved him and his family are seeing to everything we can.
5b3dffb15697d57c…5697d57c…2024-12-24 11:46:12 <hapax> (i know there's this pentacle thing going on, might be useful)
573a0d1972683ede…ed1f26fc…2024-04-08 01:55:27 <discord_bridge> (awtho) This surely isn’t going to blow up and take everything down with it at some point: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/11/21/new-ethereum-layer-2-blast-attracts-30m-hours-after-bridge-goes-live/
592e14ac87715f5f…87715f5f…2024-08-29 00:34:19 <crtdaydreams> 2025 job outlook not looking too hot, never thought I'd add "mouse technician" to the list with sewer divers in it
d59accbe5b3dffb1…5b3dffb1…2024-12-24 11:46:55 <hapax> also, asciilifeform, i believe you were experimenting with static x11 programs
be74eb2e7bc0556a…7bc0556a…2024-03-21 00:24:21 <signpost> http://jfxpt.com/2024/on-the-fact-that-bitcoind-fails-to-implement-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-2627 << "outside of entomological interest" wild. mannerism lifted straight from asciilifeform
6c548d5d38c7dee8…758a1423…2024-05-02 18:41:41 <signpost> that'd put recent price moves in line with the 16-20 halving.
a1481c91ee4a1d86…25da8f41…2024-06-06 16:26:06 asciilifeform observes that the # of megayachts torpedoed, or their owners' jets/helis SAM'd, appears to remain 0 to date
94aba0aa592e14ac…ffbc82a8…2024-08-29 22:12:46 <mod6> Oh no! Just saw the news re BV. So sad to hear that. :[ Thanks for for letting us know phf.
39b14b1bd59accbe…d59accbe…2024-12-24 11:48:47 <hapax> i've managed to properly run static twm, mwm (well ... emwm), xclock, xterm and imagemagick so far, other programs should pose no problems, especially the ones properly talking with pkg-config
b3704982be74eb2e…be74eb2e…2024-03-21 00:25:19 <signpost> admixture of "had we been there with mp earlier things would've been different" too
e083faf86c548d5d…6c548d5d…2024-05-02 18:41:58 <signpost> run-up would happen sometime in the next 1yr
72e3ddf8a1481c91…a1481c91…2024-06-06 16:27:30 <asciilifeform> 'lords fight, but it is peons' heads that crack'(tm)(r)(ru)
3d3d2e6639b14b1b…39b14b1b…2024-12-24 11:51:36 <hapax> whole thing is musltronic, runs on matrox g200 (i believe we have a similar setup, i have a machine similar to this dulap thing of yours, it has an onboard g200), next year i'm gonna try to run it on a radeon
b7ac4830b3704982…b3704982…2024-03-21 00:25:27 <signpost> eh w/e. I was going to offer 'em a peering.
723fa513e083faf8…e083faf8…2024-05-02 18:43:33 <signpost> USG's best weapon would be causing chain congestion and running up fees.
2db1ca6672e3ddf8…ee4a1d86…2024-06-06 16:29:53 <signpost> they'd certainly let a few nukes fly to soften us up, and sleep well that night.
6daf05fbca616691…ca616691…2024-08-29 22:21:58 <mod6> Yah, a great guy. Just kinda stunned over here, actually. RIP.
7e40af173d3d2e66…3d3d2e66…2024-12-24 11:53:58 <hapax> (i have a wx 5100, you have the smaller ones if i remember correctly, but it should be the same drivers, gonna try to build them with gcc4)
0acb76e2723fa513…38c7dee8…2024-05-02 18:44:09 <asciilifeform> hodlonauts not give slightest shit re congestion tho
d61324f62db1ca66…72e3ddf8…2024-06-06 16:34:02 <asciilifeform> signpost: would've 'let fly' 50+y ago if were confident that will be 'a few', and the system they built would not pop
8f9c793d6daf05fb…3d2a6c1d…2024-08-30 23:08:44 <awt_akris> signpost: very sorry to hear bv is gone. My condolences.
3df22274bdbb792b…bdbb792b…2024-03-21 01:17:45 <asciilifeform> 'all those years in the seat of power, privilege and publicity granted by MP's say-so and doing jack shit' << gold
d3a007ac0acb76e2…0acb76e2…2024-05-02 18:44:21 <asciilifeform> (nor do speculators, who work ~100% with papercoin)
6a5aed0bd61324f6…378fece1…2024-06-06 16:37:37 <PeterL> I'm not so sure about letting the nukes fly, since they were first used is has been shown to affect the health of the entire globe, and that is too close to affecting the lizzards. Much better use conventional bombs on targeted peons and churn the inventory for the MIC.
c814481d4ea5677c…d1350745…2024-12-24 14:01:08 <asciilifeform> ty hapax -- looks like 1st class work, will read
da899bda3df22274…3df22274…2024-03-21 01:18:26 <asciilifeform> went precisely as asciilifeform expected, compl. w/ 'betrayal of bitcoin protocol' etc
3176671ed3a007ac…d3a007ac…2024-05-02 18:44:37 <asciilifeform> not even sure tbh who, precisely, does
d01d5770c814481d…f7420e2d…2024-12-27 19:39:46 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Been messing around with AI. Managed to get a prototype working w/o editing a single line of code - end result is a python web app. All the power of a team of code monkeys in Ukraine at a fraction of the cost.
62561ba496b0c91f…96b0c91f…2025-01-26 14:50:19 <hapax> iirc, you once said you prefer the mswin filesystem hierarchy rather than the traditional unix one, right?
d205d4aada899bda…da899bda…2024-03-21 01:19:52 <asciilifeform> ( picture 'hey folx, loox like i found a sha2 pill, nao lemme reorg blox 1-600k for ya, wainot' )
8de051653176671e…723fa513…2024-05-02 18:45:23 <signpost> each block a miner has to pay for a certain amount of power to produce that block.
bba34c68abc237ef…2db1ca66…2024-06-06 16:38:23 <signpost> they did the shots, and the virus before it.
bd07d4c5d01d5770…c814481d…2024-12-27 19:49:05 <asciilifeform> awt: what's a galley fulla ukrs cost these days, anyway?
f62f070762561ba4…62561ba4…2025-01-26 14:50:37 <hapax> as you probably know now, i wholeheartedly share your opinion on that
d50dc02ad205d4aa…d205d4aa…2024-03-21 01:21:06 <asciilifeform> he's right re the hangs in trb tho, the only way to run it hands-off atm is with a watchdog (and that includes his variant)
44ea36a78de05165…8de05165…2024-05-02 18:45:39 <signpost> more fees in that block means each fee-satoshi is responsible for fewer hashes.
1a0c37fcbd07d4c5…d01d5770…2024-12-27 19:49:29 <discord_bridge> (awtho) No idea? $40/hr? Honestly no clue
a416899ad50dc02a…d50dc02a…2024-03-21 01:22:02 asciilifeform simply has no interest in fixing anyffin that aint an arbitrary exec booby and not 'trb not connects to net anymoar' clusterfuck. enuff sweat has been wasted trying to mold a bullet from that turd
79e5151c44ea36a7…44ea36a7…2024-05-02 18:46:34 <signpost> kind of a weird dynamic. congestion means the purchasing power of the units goes down.
7fe57982ecd23acd…ecd23acd…2024-06-06 16:39:51 <signpost> seems like a mixture of planned action and imperial decomposition
d4ac5816094760fd…094760fd…2025-01-26 14:51:16 <hapax> also, here's original v: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000160.html
f82e3ed5a416899a…a416899a…2024-03-21 01:23:43 <asciilifeform> imho we aint missing much by not having jfw et al. religious fanatics, an' not the interesting kind, either
6d74e53f79e5151c…3176671e…2024-05-02 18:47:32 <asciilifeform> orthogonally, turns mining further into contest of who can find cheap/stolen mains current
127a5a357fe57982…d61324f6…2024-06-06 16:39:55 <asciilifeform> PeterL: less re 'health of globe' and moar re fact that they rely on 7e9 bonsai kittens comfortably masturbating in delicate 'glass house', 'not rocking boat'
11c5bf08ff339f54…ff339f54…2024-12-27 19:53:27 asciilifeform experimented, like errybody else, with gptism at the tail end of his commercial work days, but it was uniquely terrible fit for the line of work he was in
7e00b545d4ac5816…f6d1eb7f…2025-01-28 02:22:16 <asciilifeform> ACHTUNG readers of asciilifeform's www ! the hoster (nearlyfreespeech.net) has yet again fucked it with a mandatory php update.
c1024eb2d4ac5816…d4ac5816…2025-01-29 23:25:54 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-01-27#1034707 <<< "sek00rity first, not a single customer uses the old php!!1" still holds when there's no customers left
af2a4135f82e3ed5…f82e3ed5…2024-03-21 01:24:43 asciilifeform had moar respect for subj when they were writing own lisp thingy rather than picking through asciilifeform's dumpster & eating
deab6628127a5a35…abc237ef…2024-06-06 16:41:10 <PeterL> and throw in some "don't let a good crisis go to waste", if you can focus the populaces attention on trivial stuff, it's easy to sneak other stuff under the radar
c1f5a1bb11c5bf08…11c5bf08…2024-12-27 19:54:05 <asciilifeform> i.e. moar or less the exact opposite of 'generate 100kB of boilerplate for www app'
c74e54e07e00b545…7e00b545…2025-01-28 02:23:01 <asciilifeform> 4y ago was able to find a workaround, nao loox like i'ma have to move it to the rack (was reluctant to do this while the latter was in flux, but it's been rock-solid for yrs nao...)
613cf88bc1024eb2…c1024eb2…2025-01-29 23:26:07 <hapax> don't know a single thing about php, unfortunately
cdc05d49deab6628…deab6628…2024-06-06 16:42:31 <PeterL> I don't mean "health of globe" as the environment, I meant it as in the individual health of each person. Lizards don't want to increase their risk of cancer if they don't have to.
75954355c1f5a1bb…1a0c37fc…2024-12-27 19:54:34 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I'm using Cline in Visual Studio. First plugin I've found that will work at the project level rather than just the file level.
6a2f0409c74e54e0…c74e54e0…2025-01-28 02:24:25 <asciilifeform> subscribed since 2007!!! and nao loox like they don't particularly need customers?
9f9974ef613cf88b…613cf88b…2025-01-29 23:27:08 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-01-29#1034717 <<< funnily enough, the gnu autohell and the gnu "coding standards" actually alleviate the problem to some extent
43cf00f911646b02…11646b02…2024-03-21 01:27:44 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032920 << not surprise, considering that mp never splashed his holy jizz on it, think
2421ab49cdc05d49…127a5a35…2024-06-06 16:42:45 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's summary of the 'planned' component fwiw.
f8dc2f6875954355…75954355…2024-12-27 19:55:21 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Makes sense. I'm delving deep into platform-based liquishit here.
66e32eca6a2f0409…6a2f0409…2025-01-28 02:25:58 <asciilifeform> if any folx tuned in have advice re: barfola induced by php8ism and possible workarounds, i'm all ears. otherwise will need to move asap.
73fe23089f9974ef…9f9974ef…2025-01-29 23:27:26 <hapax> i was pleasently surprised when i realized most autoconfigurable packages (probably all with the "gnu" sticker slapped on top) can be completely configured during build when it comes to paths
f4606d4143cf00f9…b7ac4830…2024-03-21 01:46:24 signpost was during this time of great power and publicity running a company where he beat the asses of companies 1000x his headcount.
d5aa37d2b5fc60d6…2b2e0818…2024-05-05 17:45:12 <signpost> asciilifeform's dump/eatblock saves the day. had a node shred its deeb.
a935e8a22421ab49…2421ab49…2024-06-06 16:52:18 <asciilifeform> PeterL: the 'health' thing is overhyped, modern thermonuke has fissile primary smaller than what popped in hiroshima (which, note, rebuilt & habitable in '50s)
ff1860b0f8dc2f68…c1f5a1bb…2024-12-27 19:56:17 <asciilifeform> the days of 'get $$ for www boilerplate' are prolly numbered. sorta like how starving immigrants could get paid to wash dishes in restaurant, but prolly nowhere nao, they use machines
7ccf3f9273fe2308…73fe2308…2025-01-29 23:27:38 <hapax> (the configure scripts don't even need bash! any posix-compatible sh(1) works)
8b9cee27f4606d41…f4606d41…2024-03-21 01:46:58 <signpost> mp could've dropped 5M on the thing and turned it into 500M.
5b64bbddd5aa37d2…b5fc60d6…2024-05-05 17:45:46 <asciilifeform> signpost: see the moar recent variant of this also.
e6aa7f48a935e8a2…a935e8a2…2024-06-06 16:54:07 <asciilifeform> the 'health' lizards concerned with, is of the 'glass house', where millions of labourers effectively support 1 palace fuck, and with next to ~0 expenditure on overseers, barbed wire, etc. req'd
310942d8ff1860b0…ff1860b0…2024-12-27 19:57:19 <asciilifeform> (while the days of 'get $$ to fix what gpt users subtly fucked' not yet arrived, nor obvious that they will, likely things will simply stay subtly fucked indefinitely)
fd63fac17ccf3f92…7ccf3f92…2025-01-29 23:27:49 <hapax> even monstrosities such as gcc have ways to play around (cf. --sysroot)
419d22ea8b9cee27…8b9cee27…2024-03-21 01:47:07 <signpost> there was no power nor publicity granted, let's say.
0a80b6fd5b64bbdd…d5aa37d2…2024-05-05 17:47:44 <signpost> ah yep. would make this quicker to return to service. will give it a try when the node has topped up again.
27b62d7de6aa7f48…e6aa7f48…2024-06-06 16:55:39 <asciilifeform> where the proverbial 'bank accts in monaco', jets (req quite elaborate infrastructure), printola (not need to invest in successfully managed physical processes to have inf dough) etc
76215220310942d8…f8dc2f68…2024-12-27 19:59:32 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Scratching my own itch here. I frequently get emails from customers with the same issues. Trying to put something in front that does some triage before I have to deal with it.
a8e28d67fd63fac1…fd63fac1…2025-01-29 23:28:07 <hapax> some packages cannot be moved around aftewards, but i usually just leave them where they are
c28b52d1419d22ea…419d22ea…2024-03-21 01:47:44 <signpost> what the fuck did anyone think I was saying about needing profit centers, asking for someone else to do it?
08477bbc0a80b6fd…5b64bbdd…2024-05-05 17:48:25 asciilifeform perhaps astonishingly, has not yet experienced 'noad shred its db' even 1ce, not even on mech hdds
312e48c227b62d7d…7fe57982…2024-06-06 16:56:16 <signpost> https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/wall-street-admits-biggest-economic-shocker-all-jobs-past-year-have-gone-illegal-aliens << yup
cb54903376215220…310942d8…2024-12-27 20:01:01 <asciilifeform> a, the 'q&a chatbot' a la lulazon et al support ?
3f4a155ba8e28d67…a8e28d67…2025-01-29 23:28:30 <hapax> still, even linux takes a command line argument for pid 1 (and the path can be complied in during build), there's usually some degree of freedom already in most places
abc20156c28b52d1…c28b52d1…2024-03-21 01:50:02 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/trilema/2019-12-11#1954844 << he wanted us to stay in the goddamn bucket.
f34d940b08477bbc…08477bbc…2024-05-05 17:48:38 <asciilifeform> seems as if literally errybody else who touched trb, did, tho
5534d083312e48c2…27b62d7d…2024-06-06 16:57:31 <asciilifeform> signpost: headline could just as easily (and imho moar honestly) be 'all jobs were for strawberry pickers'
bf32c03c3f4a155b…3f4a155b…2025-01-29 23:28:49 <hapax> people just take the PATH=/bin:/usr/bin for granted, package manager's gonna deal with that anyway
8f8ece2babc20156…abc20156…2024-03-21 01:52:06 <signpost> charitably, rowing towards his goals, whatever they may have been.
02aa1996f34d940b…f34d940b…2024-05-05 17:49:33 <asciilifeform> on all occasions where asciilifeform thought he saw this, turned out to be ssd kaput
3339c50b5534d083…5534d083…2024-06-06 17:05:22 <asciilifeform> the eternal wank re 'the mexicans!' imho is lulzy. if the proverbial strawberry picker somehow had to be paid 'white man's wage', berry would cost 10+$ ea., e.g. new roof -- 100+k$, etc
5a9a73fdee92be44…cb549033…2024-12-27 20:03:00 asciilifeform would expect it'd be infuriating to folx w/ 'over roomtemp iq', like lulazon's, but not knows who is the customer base, so can't say for sure
e721a1e5bf32c03c…bf32c03c…2025-01-29 23:28:57 <hapax> a problem unknown in the ms world (just doubleclick the .lnk on your desktop!)
b47e4bc08f8ece2b…8f8ece2b…2024-03-21 01:52:44 <signpost> in either case, oh well. as for me, I think whoever still wants to be free at the end of the world oughta be on speaking terms, but I won't lose sleep.
cd84f0e402aa1996…0a80b6fd…2024-05-05 17:49:44 <signpost> yeah, I ended up with the "run recovery" situation, but I was pretty aggressively stopping and starting the thing.
5cc30841e721a1e5…e721a1e5…2025-02-11 00:19:42 <hapax> gregorynyssa: you could say that (or even say it's already been created), but i'm not really distributing anything, it's just for my personal use (since no other system (sans msdos) really suits me)
0daccc3bb47e4bc0…43cf00f9…2024-03-21 02:13:46 <asciilifeform> leaving, for the moment, mp along in his watery grave -- jfw et al are sumthing else strange. these folx had.. 5y! could've e.g. written 100% wurking trblike in ada or cl; baked the lyso rng or whatever irons; or even sumthing entirely new&unseen. but instead wat.
b8c5290ccd84f0e4…cd84f0e4…2024-05-05 17:50:56 <signpost> crammed the thing into a restricted namespace with sys-apps/sandbox
f4be1ed5658852a4…658852a4…2024-06-08 13:54:41 <billymg> works! http://logs-dev.bitdash.io/ (moved everything to new host, now that it's working will update the dns)
31202a2d17ed0950…5a9a73fd…2024-12-27 20:03:21 asciilifeform would rather read an ordinary text faq than fight with a bot, errytime
703427d75cc30841…5cc30841…2025-02-11 00:20:01 <hapax> there's a lot of effort needed if you want to accommodate a userbase and i wouldn't really be able to maintain it on my own
3adc4b9cb8c5290c…4e02fac0…2024-05-10 18:06:00 <unpx> jonsykkel: I found this very interesting https://www.jsoftware.com/books/pdf/aioj.pdf
e2eaff7e31202a2d…1f910f75…2024-12-27 22:40:45 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-12-27#1034622 << neat, have you also tried Continue? if so, how do they compare?
aa549440703427d7…703427d7…2025-02-11 00:20:22 <hapax> (and i don't have a "repocentric" approach, it would either be similar to signpost's work or reseble the "linux from scratch" thing, i.e., build instructions and patches)
3927968d5bdc44fd…5bdc44fd…2024-03-21 02:14:36 <asciilifeform> not merely 'eat from dumpster' but somehow zeroed in on the most broken and dead end liquishit in there.
d3eccc4e3adc4b9c…3adc4b9c…2024-05-10 18:10:15 <unpx> related: https://www.youtube.com/live/NiferfBvN3s?t=2672 gist: History of APL, J, K, BQN. K has 9 variants. K5 later became Q, sold for 53 millions cuz trasactions goes brr and they can query their db faster. 50KB of binary. yikes
c7ca34508565cbd5…f4be1ed5…2024-06-08 14:17:44 <billymg> awtho: perhaps spoke to soon, your line isn't showing up
4dcd923367ea114c…17ed0950…2024-12-27 20:04:12 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Yes specifically happens with the customers that are at roomtemp IQ.
94ebc289e2eaff7e…e2eaff7e…2024-12-27 22:43:00 <billymg> i've been using Continue in VS Code backed by a locally running model, "DeepSeek-Coder V2 Lite". it's been great for certain things, also handles spanish localization pretty well
1923d5b2aa549440…aa549440…2025-02-11 00:20:44 <hapax> but i'm willing to share anything i stumble upon to make things work the way i want, my blog is really just what i thought other people might find useful
ac4e5a643927968d…3927968d…2024-03-21 02:15:48 <asciilifeform> srsly, d00d, sumbody wants to buy optoisolator that has to be twirled like soviet tv antenna daily ? wat'd be wrong with using toshiba's plug, avail since 1980 and 5$ ? ( prolly watswrong is that would have to bake pcb. and must've been tortured with soldering iron as a kid? or else wai phobic )
92cd8b9ad3eccc4e…d3eccc4e…2024-05-10 18:10:55 <unpx> I hope I'll have time to explore different ways to compute from the classic desk calculator
61c8c5a1c7ca3450…c7ca3450…2024-06-08 14:17:58 <billymg> ah, there it is, just had to be shaken loose
716e3a6d4dcd9233…67ea114c…2024-12-27 20:04:59 <asciilifeform> there's a species of humanoid that want to 'feel served' 1st, while wants actually to resolve a question a distant 2nd
a070e6de94ebc289…94ebc289…2024-12-27 22:44:30 <billymg> i've not tried having it write a full app though, mostly just use it to generate boilerplate snippets
d85a96501923d5b2…1923d5b2…2025-02-11 00:21:01 <hapax> take xorg for example, i guess at least some people will benefit from being able to build a static x11 server
a1191a74ac4e5a64…ac4e5a64…2024-03-21 02:18:18 <asciilifeform> honestly can see wai he not baked fg clone -- knows it'll sell approx as well as the orig, and not stupid, not feels like getting 1e5+$ in the hole simply to wave flag
fb6207ef92cd8b9a…02aa1996…2024-05-10 18:12:37 <asciilifeform> unpx: asciilifeform seen 'j' prior, found interesting (but never fired in anger, to date) ; not seen this impl. before, loox interestingly compact, will read
fc7294e1716e3a6d…716e3a6d…2024-12-27 20:06:02 <asciilifeform> for these, 'eliza'-level 'ai' would have prolly sufficed, not sure wai the bots had to wait for gptism etc
e967e91ba070e6de…a070e6de…2024-12-27 22:48:28 <billymg> i think what i like most about it is that it makes writing webshit a lot less tedious. it acts as a sort of motivator, by removing the "ugh" hurdle to sitting down and making progress
e28ad083d85a9650…d85a9650…2025-02-11 00:21:45 <hapax> i'm also motivated by having this icky feeling whenever i read celebratory remarks from wreckers ("finally got rid of being able to build a static exe," cf. xorg changelog, it's actually there)
0eeb0b7da1191a74…a1191a74…2024-03-21 02:19:17 <asciilifeform> (but wai the pretense to contrary? can only speculate, 'temple of mp' psychopathologies etc)
3d100feffb6207ef…92cd8b9a…2024-05-10 18:13:45 <unpx> Here they fixed On Lisp pictures: https://www.lurklurk.org/onlisp/onlisp.html
364154dc6a50f258…6a50f258…2024-06-08 14:27:07 <billymg> blog and bitdash.io are also on the new host now, as well as my trb node http://bitdash.io/nodes/45.11.57.212-8333
1eff858afc7294e1…4dcd9233…2024-12-27 20:06:07 <discord_bridge> (awtho) It's just regular people who don't understand image resolution and transparency and how that translates to the quality of a finished product.
78214d23e28ad083…e28ad083…2025-02-11 00:22:17 <hapax> or see tex, i've seen people going "well, yeah, knuth does update the pascal source, but you can't really run it, you must use the convoluted tex distribution, complete with package manager"
ad41e3810eeb0b7d…0eeb0b7d…2024-03-21 02:22:13 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032939 << mno, cuz, see, not isisy enuff
431e55c03d100fef…fb6207ef…2024-05-10 18:13:48 <asciilifeform> unpx: at 1 time we had an apl aficionado here; if yer deeply into the subj, may want to write to him
0a42384d364154dc…312e48c2…2024-06-14 17:27:48 <signpost> lol @ openai adding an ex-NSA director to its board.
93ad75eff632b892…1eff858a…2024-12-27 22:39:07 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I haven’t tried Continue. I’ll check it out.
b4c385aff632b892…93ad75ef…2024-12-27 22:40:21 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Yeah Cline made a bunch of boring work disappear: oauth, email threads, writing tests…
6cf71d3178214d23…78214d23…2025-02-11 00:22:26 <hapax> i hate package managers, i want to build the pascal source and actually know what i'm building
62d18af9ad41e381…ad41e381…2024-03-21 02:28:45 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032944 << not as if he made much of a seekrit of his internals, at the end, 'tolerated yer programmer nonsense while thought it would help me hitler, but nao fuckoff' moar or less
5360c644b4c385af…f632b892…2024-12-27 22:50:35 <billymg> are you using an API for the GPTism or running something locally?
96b01b936cf71d31…6cf71d31…2025-02-11 00:22:43 <hapax> turns out it does build if you put some effort into it, mf even displays pictures with the turbopascal graph unit (works on msdos/mswin of all things, i'll port it to x11 one day)
fa0fec3162d18af9…62d18af9…2024-03-21 02:30:37 <asciilifeform> d00d was dying of boredom (and effects of 3decade of substance abuse), liked building imaginary castles, went out to look for tenants for said castles, found, evicted, bunker, kaput.
ffe6d11c5ee03bec…3339c50b…2024-06-14 18:09:56 <asciilifeform> gpt-genned liquishit -> whitehouse et al briefings when.
830483785360c644…71eb97b8…2024-12-27 22:43:24 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Running into the token limits is slowing me down on tasks with a lot of context.
bcec3b5396b01b93…96b01b93…2025-02-11 00:23:06 <hapax> this is one of the two freedoms rms does not mention, "to build the program the way you wish," the other being "to actually understand the program" (asciilifeform's "fits-in-head")
9bbfce2dfa0fec31…fa0fec31…2024-03-21 02:34:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-20#1032945 << asciilifeform's suspicion is that they're in eternal search of a new cokehead to suck the 'noble', sneering, lazy cock of. but whoknows.
6d076af0dc346665…dc346665…2024-05-10 18:15:03 asciilifeform fwiw has the 1st ed., bought in flea market when was an undergrad
b07f0d79ffe6d11c…ffe6d11c…2024-06-14 18:10:32 <asciilifeform> cheaper + ~same quality as the usual kind, neh
82fa805fbcec3b53…bcec3b53…2025-02-12 00:42:37 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-10#1034752 << probably where i got the second missing freedom from
9b1346c69bbfce2d…9bbfce2d…2024-03-21 02:44:10 <asciilifeform> ( as mp himself noted -- in addition to sadists, there are also masochists, and the latter far outnumber the former. that'd be this. )
372d5f636d076af0…1fb3aa83…2024-05-10 18:15:29 <unpx> asciilifeform I think verisimilitudes is writing his own pest client
4ca47231f72fedee…a5b38808…2024-12-27 22:50:16 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I have a very heavy duty box at home but don’t know the stats.
0487c9f29b1346c6…9b1346c6…2024-03-21 02:47:24 <asciilifeform> ... and if one's picky -- want to be whipped by maniac who dropped outta maffs, rather than art history, ate 10t of caviar, rather than mcquack, has delusions of cryptography, etc. -- likely to be long search.
c07219db372d5f63…6d076af0…2024-05-10 18:16:29 <asciilifeform> iirc he did once say he was attempting it
ec421a4088c714df…364154dc…2024-06-14 19:06:03 <billymg> in government/corpo make-work jobs it'll be gpt-gen'd reports submitted to colleagues gpt-summerizing the reports instead of reading them
e89e916e4ca47231…f72fedee…2024-12-27 23:00:47 <billymg> https://huggingface.co/bartowski/DeepSeek-Coder-V2-Lite-Instruct-GGUF << probably won't match the Claude API but the whole thing fits on a 24gb consumer card
2e4fe72b347a0b94…347a0b94…2025-02-12 00:42:56 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-10#1034756 << really am glad to hear that
e96c99df0487c9f2…0487c9f2…2024-03-21 02:50:03 <asciilifeform> that'd be their concept of 'free', evidently.
39a88a81c07219db…372d5f63…2024-05-10 18:16:43 unpx currently in an internship writing Android applications for payments -- mostly bored
81334159e96c99df…e96c99df…2024-03-21 02:50:29 <asciilifeform> there's a reason wai ronin were expected to seppuku -- it's a pathetic sight.
593defea39a88a81…c07219db…2024-05-10 18:19:26 asciilifeform on a lengthy (possibly permanent..) sabbatical from commercial worx; presently trying to catch up on maffs reading; aims to resume various long-neglected projs in coming months
d87aceb717dd0bd7…17dd0bd7…2024-06-14 22:03:02 <signpost> any rate, clearly the Vision (TM) is llm precrime
1f0410d436797f72…e89e916e…2024-12-27 23:04:01 <billymg> i'm using "Q8_0" quant type. since i've not tried any of the API models i'd be curious to hear how you think it compares in your use case
7dc0020f77e65f27…77e65f27…2025-02-12 00:43:13 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-10#1034758 << unfortunately, yeah
712ecbdf81334159…81334159…2024-03-21 02:57:34 <asciilifeform> re trb -- asciilifeform's position not changed since bunker kaput , there's precisely 1 sane approach possible there.
3e877e091f0410d4…1f0410d4…2024-12-27 23:11:31 <billymg> i serve the model locally with: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp?tab=readme-ov-file#llama-server, which the Continue plugin talks to
afb1bf62712ecbdf…b47e4bc0…2024-03-21 02:58:37 <signpost> in other news, sensor fusion proceeds apace https://www.iarpa.gov/research-programs/haystac
1ff7a13e64c3f85b…593defea…2024-05-10 18:22:33 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: arguably too early for congrats, but ty
70fa07063e877e09…fc7294e1…2024-12-28 01:11:40 <asciilifeform> awt, billymg : any speshul sauce req'd to try these on crapple? ( asciilifeform atm has an 'm2 ultra' w/ 192GB ram that's mostly idle, lol )
bb504fc6a70f642f…a70f642f…2025-02-12 00:43:29 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-10#1034769 << reminds me of the pe/coff resource section and the way mswin keeps, e.g., icons for executables
7ba0abf8afb1bf62…712ecbdf…2024-03-21 02:59:57 <asciilifeform> see also robert sheckley, 1950s, 'sanity meter in the doorway wouldn't let smith pass'
c5167ce21ff7a13e…1ff7a13e…2024-05-10 18:23:43 <asciilifeform> atm still in 'detox' from 3+y of abject salt mine hell
b09b58d270fa0706…3e877e09…2024-12-28 01:31:41 <billymg> asciilifeform: can build the llama.cpp thing for metal https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/blob/master/docs/build.md#metal-build
89c853067ba0abf8…7ba0abf8…2024-03-21 03:06:03 <asciilifeform> signpost: that thing is just 1 drop in ocean of similar liquishit, dc beltway hucksters promising reich amazing!1111 wunderwaffen that'll 'make all resistence futile' etc
8a87f3749d62dfb2…9d62dfb2…2025-02-12 00:43:49 <hapax> sounds like a more convoluted way to implement --help though (which i use more often than man pages, through woman in emacs, since i don't even have man(1) installed)
79c5300989c85306…89c85306…2024-03-21 03:07:12 asciilifeform did some yrs of hard time working in these shitholes. most folx in there not even 'ideological' boot-thumping fanatics, but simply to make rent
26af978d3bd925b6…3bd925b6…2024-12-28 01:23:02 asciilifeform wonders how performance would compare to the moar typical pcie gpu
dedf79428a87f374…8a87f374…2025-02-12 00:44:13 <hapax> btw how do you manage the filesystem on the second machine? you gotta have libraries/headers there
1a1b9b47f34401cc…0c487627…2024-06-01 09:15:07 <crtdaydreams> opened up the first page of 'Scheme 9 from Empty Space'; "This section uses nested #ifdef instead of #if in order to support the Plan9 C language which intentionally omits #if. Because we want to support both Un*x and Plan9..."
672a2fd326af978d…b09b58d2…2024-12-28 01:32:46 <billymg> from there can play around with any .gguf format model you find on huggingface
8ff15b7adedf7942…dedf7942…2025-02-12 00:44:32 <hapax> i actually use a similar approach, i don't keep gcc, etc., on a machine i know i'm not gonna compile anything on, so i only move the binaries there, but i keep the directories consistent
7060acd9731808c7…731808c7…2024-03-21 03:10:32 <asciilifeform> so yes, fully expect that there's a darpa solicitation for contract to build mega-machine that'll determine who's aboutta allahakhbar by monitoring fart counts in public shitters in coffee shops.
a05b532e9b615be9…a135c0d6…2024-05-17 00:50:31 <billymg> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-05-16#1116111 << "The Justice Department calls it “an alleged novel scheme by the defendants to exploit the very integrity of the Ethereum blockchain,” and that seems right: If people can reach in to alter the order of transactions to swipe $25 million, that does sort o
d3e19b791a1b9b47…1a1b9b47…2024-06-01 09:16:06 <crtdaydreams> something tells me this is going to be a very good read
da5d4878672a2fd3…26af978d…2024-12-28 01:24:35 asciilifeform has the box simply on acct of it having been, at the time bought, 'fastest gcc box $ could buy', but not yet even tried gpuism of any kind on subj
2d590c8f8ff15b7a…8ff15b7a…2025-02-12 00:45:14 <hapax> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-10#1034773 << i'll get in touch over the weekend
645a249d7060acd9…7060acd9…2024-03-21 03:11:29 <asciilifeform> with 150e6$ award, to deloitte, or lockheed, or somesuch.
a9ffd6cfa05b532e…a05b532e…2024-05-17 00:50:54 <billymg> legal precedent for when the first segshit-destroyer block is mined?
15545eefda5d4878…672a2fd3…2024-12-28 01:35:53 <billymg> asciilifeform: not sure, i think if you compare to top of the line nvidia cards it's a lot slower, but that's assuming the person with the nvidia card has enough vram to fit the whole model. usually they don't, whereas on your mac you've got the 192gb of 'unified' ram that the gpu cores can use
f98114a62d590c8f…f02d25ea…2025-02-12 03:57:06 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-11#1034789 << Thanks a lot.
d072a8db2d590c8f…2d590c8f…2025-02-22 20:19:09 <hapax> asciilifeform: https://archive.org/details/MULISPXM << seen this by any chance?
dc6393b1645a249d…645a249d…2024-03-21 03:11:50 <asciilifeform> most not even seekrit at all, they're right there on www, like that idiocy there
3ce5a214a9ffd6cf…c5167ce2…2024-05-17 01:21:40 <asciilifeform> billymg: recall, it's the reich we're talking about, anyffin can be 'precedent' for anyffin
7a396b8415545eef…da5d4878…2024-12-28 01:26:43 <asciilifeform> sadly haven't a recent nvidia card to compare to, but oughta suffice for simple experiments
c5bb5ab3f98114a6…f98114a6…2025-02-12 03:57:19 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-11#1034788 << We have thought very much along the same lines.
45fc1474d072a8db…6c24f853…2025-02-22 20:26:41 <asciilifeform> hapax: yea, iirc was already posted at one time. exe, no src, same as the others
f6532c4fdc6393b1…dc6393b1…2024-03-21 03:12:24 <asciilifeform> (sometimes there's a 'seekrit addendum', it normally consists of review of the totalitarian nonsense already in place with which new thing'd compete )
f8b560367a396b84…15545eef…2024-12-28 01:37:23 <billymg> nvidia intentionally gimps the vram on consumer cards for this reason, so if you want more than 24gb at the moment you gotta pay ~4x what a 4090 costs for the A6000 (ada model)
15d7829cc5bb5ab3…c5bb5ab3…2025-02-12 03:58:03 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-11#1034783 << Yep, both ELF and COFF were designed as file-bundles containing constituent files.
71bdb7e0f6532c4f…f6532c4f…2024-03-21 03:13:44 asciilifeform not envies the kgb folx paid to read & summarize this liquishit, if anyone dies of boredom, that'd be who
9aad6ef297b5ea26…97b5ea26…2024-05-17 01:24:36 <asciilifeform> additionally: 'not caught -- not thief'(tm)(r)(ru). i.e. dun be the idjit with obv meatspace footprint, solicit 'investments', etc.
1d45055af8b56036…7a396b84…2024-12-28 01:31:38 <asciilifeform> if the gpttrons could do, for the sorta things asciilifeform does, what they do for 'make me http server boilerplate' folx, the cost wouldn't seem excessive to asciilifeform
7a9e891c15d7829c…15d7829c…2025-02-12 03:58:52 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-11#1034786 << The --help option is a shorter summary, while the man-page is a longer explanation, even constituting a specification. Both are important.
01318d9e71bdb7e0…71bdb7e0…2024-03-21 03:25:59 <asciilifeform> there's 0 doubt that some stuffed shirt has wet dreams of mega-machine that watches faces of who's standing in front of billboards with 8ft portrait of clitler, and whose face not filled with reverant worship, marked for lifetime satellite tracking and 'monitored for deviancy'
c6e9eb919aad6ef2…9aad6ef2…2024-05-17 01:25:42 <asciilifeform> none of that nonsense is needed if yer simply firing packets (which simple enuff to do from a pipe not associated with yer earthly carcass)
5aa599217a9e891c…7a9e891c…2025-02-12 04:00:13 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Aside from providing more information, the advantage of the man(1) system lies in the TUI controls (like the less(1) program by GNU) and searching features.
01662acf9041f741…455b704e…2025-03-04 14:43:08 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-04#1032604 << looking more and more like yes
cb4efdb101318d9e…01318d9e…2024-03-21 03:29:38 asciilifeform walked around in dc earlier today, after lenghy hiatus, noticed gigantic poles with dozen+ cameras hanging off'em, as if in dystopian film. and that good % of'em are dangling by their cables, and some evidently snapped, lol
f348cf32c6e9eb91…c6e9eb91…2024-05-17 01:28:20 asciilifeform contemplates the other recent lul re a chinese btc mine evicted by presidential decree for 'too close to usg base'. why anyone needed to know it was a mine? wainot 'we're a dc, and we host lolcats' for all Official purposes..?!
ff1216365ab4b01a…f8b56036…2024-12-28 01:47:00 <billymg> afaict it really is just an advanced autocomplete, so only works for things that have been written before
52f5cfd75aa59921…5aa59921…2025-02-12 04:01:42 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Also, Sections 2–7 of man(1) under my Linux distribution are edited, bundled, and curated as a single file, whereas Sections 1 and 8 are bulit into particular executables as described above.
2936fc01b1ddc195…b1ddc195…2025-05-11 03:02:50 <hapax> PeterL: tried playing with your v implementation, but before could even begin i noticed litmus.sh couldn't process your seals, gpg --verify did just fine
b8263f28cb4efdb1…cb4efdb1…2024-03-21 03:30:06 <asciilifeform> characterizing portrait of reich & its wunderwaffen.
95899713ff121636…5ab4b01a…2024-12-28 01:38:18 <asciilifeform> not necessarily useless on complex problems simply from this fact. theoretically, could be the proverbial 'sufficiently smart compiler'(tm)
32c980232936fc01…2936fc01…2025-05-11 03:03:09 <hapax> my first thought was something broke when making it posix-compatible
4013f2a32470b79e…75a4ff78…2025-03-04 17:53:02 <awt_akris> Currently feel like I'm living through the prequil to The Purge.
43282471b8263f28…b8263f28…2024-03-21 03:34:04 <asciilifeform> 'osprey's flying ~100m back'n'forth over park, rattling car windows, terrorizing tourists
296314ba0e7f8d95…0e7f8d95…2024-05-17 01:28:53 <asciilifeform> failed iq test. electric chair. next...
de58d0b595899713…95899713…2024-12-28 01:39:12 asciilifeform suspects that there are plenty of 'low hanging fruit' simple patterns in all kindsa domains that haven't been usefully, systematically mechanically detected yet.
8dcae3f42095736c…2095736c…2025-02-12 04:02:32 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Unlike Linux (but more similar to BSD), every man-page (especially under Sections 1 and 8) must contain the version-number of the program, the date of release, and the name of the author.
223d2c0d32c98023…32c98023…2025-05-11 03:03:17 <hapax> but then i realized your signature headers were longer (guess you used some newer gpg?)
0fee0a4d4013f2a3…2470b79e…2025-03-04 17:54:28 <asciilifeform> any particular newz lulz that prompted this ?
dbbfd46843282471…43282471…2024-03-21 03:36:53 <asciilifeform> guess it was in case sumbody's sexually abusing a sakura tree ? or looking at capitol a bit too seditiously
4cdae823296314ba…296314ba…2024-05-17 01:31:04 <asciilifeform> whole. fucking. point. of btcism : nobody has any biz knowing what's being done, where, by whom. let the public net packets enter/exit from rented box in mongolia.
e1884129de58d0b5…de58d0b5…2024-12-28 01:43:16 <asciilifeform> afaik the irons req'd to actually train gptistic models de novo, tho, costs $maxint
749a08e68dcae3f4…8dcae3f4…2025-02-12 04:03:37 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) For every assertion made in a man-page two things must be clear: (1) by whose authority/authorship? (2) since when?
c3daf7dd223d2c0d…223d2c0d…2025-05-11 03:03:45 <hapax> the culprit was the busybox xxd(1) implementation, lines 279 and 291, -p essentialy truncates to 30 cols unless set manually with -c
a7e8bb3d0fee0a4d…0fee0a4d…2025-03-04 17:54:49 asciilifeform had not been keeping up in realtime with trump rerun
bd29083ddbbfd468…dbbfd468…2024-03-21 03:38:55 <asciilifeform> (meanwhile flooded sidewalk had helpful sign, 'will be fixed in 2026, courtesy of biden's Rescue America program' shittheenot )
45edd1194cdae823…4cdae823…2024-05-17 01:31:32 <asciilifeform> miner needs what, 100kB/s of reliable bw, total.
555623fae1884129…e1884129…2024-12-28 01:44:51 asciilifeform if not for this, would've tried already the mega-obvious application: to sniff for interestingly weak rngs...
6cfc62fd749a08e6…749a08e6…2025-02-12 04:04:07 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Moreover, the man-pages of BSD give examples whereas those of Linux usually do not.
7bfb5adec3daf7dd…c3daf7dd…2025-05-11 03:04:22 <hapax> re v itself: is there a particular reason you used unix patch(1) instead of phf's vpatch from his vtools? i believe the risk is the same as with the xxd in litmus.sh
a9f7f49da7e8bb3d…4013f2a3…2025-03-04 17:55:46 <awt_akris> Don't know how to describe it other than that the VP clearly read Moldbug.
25ebb43ebd29083d…afb1bf62…2024-03-21 18:46:21 signpost rests easy knowing america shall be rescued soon
36ed653545edd119…45edd119…2024-05-17 01:36:58 <asciilifeform> there's 0 reason wai this 100kB/s can't or shouldn't bounce b/w 7 countries etc
5dea94dd555623fa…555623fa…2024-12-28 01:45:52 <asciilifeform> all the coinz sitting in addrs genned on winxp etc., potentially, waiting to be excavated...
76b5931a6cfc62fd…6cfc62fd…2025-02-12 04:04:16 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Examples of correct invocations of a given program.
1d6f80f47bfb5ade…7bfb5ade…2025-05-11 03:05:07 <hapax> asciilifeform: you may find the xxd case interesting, guess it's another reason why shellscripting is a bad idea in general
b7af702ea9f7f49d…a7e8bb3d…2025-03-04 17:59:59 <asciilifeform> iirc he quite explicitly cited mr mold at one pt
b40cda6036ed6535…36ed6535…2024-05-17 01:39:21 <asciilifeform> and yes, if you've exploited some reich bullshit and got coin, or even simply 'rich without a license', did sumthing that blackrock thinks it has divinely ordained monopoly on, and you then go on to give interviews to nyt, ask for 'invest', and put face on it -- '20 to life'
2271c5025dea94dd…5dea94dd…2024-12-28 01:52:22 <asciilifeform> 'hypertrophied autocomplete' in principle could make short work of keys that came outta gimped rng. (considering that it aint the least bit difficult to bring up a 2009-style ms victim's box and get as many samples as could ever want)
9662cf8676b5931a…76b5931a…2025-02-12 04:05:06 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-02-11#1034787 << Compilation is considered the private activity of a particular user, not a systemic activity.
f5b6a22cb7af702e…fa41cc0a…2025-03-05 00:48:19 <signpost> vp being from the internet is pretty okay by me tbh.
e72b75cc44fabde9…8f93449b…2024-03-22 13:01:46 <crtdaydreams> i shall now be referring to dc exclusivly as "district 12" lmao
73fc7ae0b40cda60…b40cda60…2024-05-17 01:39:48 <asciilifeform> what the fuck else did these morons think would happen.
770caa9a2271c502…2271c502…2024-12-28 01:56:58 <asciilifeform> analogously to e.g. petro prospecting, just about any degree of success would handily pay for whatever irons...
e2a8568d9662cf86…9662cf86…2025-02-12 04:06:04 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) Thus we keep headers and "libraries" somewhere in the personal folder (/home/gregorynyssa for instance) of that user. Moreover there is no need to standardize the names "lib" or "include" or whatever. It should be possible to name the sub-folders anything.
194efd8923f0eb41…23f0eb41…2025-05-12 12:06:45 <PeterL> used patch instead of vpatch because I forgot there was a difference, the original implementations of v that I was referencing used patch, and this way you don't need to build a whole new thing (vpatch) before you can press
bfeab982f5b6a22c…f5b6a22c…2025-03-05 00:48:55 signpost more clenched about w/e the blob's going to do to blow up the economy before anything good happens.
a596b8e3e72b75cc…e72b75cc…2024-03-22 13:04:37 <crtdaydreams> and not unilke district 12, the white house is engineered moreso to keep joe 'in with his geriatric meanderings and whatnot
85ba552873fc7ae0…73fc7ae0…2024-05-17 01:40:14 <asciilifeform> other than 'arrested in spain'(tm)(r)(us doj) .
df71f700770caa9a…ff121636…2024-12-28 14:01:28 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-12-27#1034669 << yeah, i think this is true. but you could look into "fine tuning", that's something that's within the realm of a beefy home setup or rented server farm time
e56c95bee2a8568d…58d5f43c…2025-02-14 22:15:52 <unpx> asciilifeform: do read AIMer, I find it interesting they use symmetric primitives for signatures. https://kpqc.or.kr/competition_02.html
52f4fa66bfeab982…01662acf…2025-03-05 14:40:48 <billymg> asciilifeform: something in the air just feels different, nothing more than that really
79a2e324a596b8e3…a596b8e3…2024-03-22 13:11:23 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-03-21#1033525 << does you mean to imply there is some kind of saving grace? theres a significant crowd of doomsayers hanging out for 'the rapture'...
1cd937c985ba5528…85ba5528…2024-05-17 01:42:03 <asciilifeform> cock into wasp nest -- then, somehow, surprised.
80f13834df71f700…df71f700…2024-12-28 14:03:12 <billymg> i think it's roughly taking an existing model and feeding it with enough domain-specific data that it can be used effectively for a given use case
f373546307dc51ab…64afa40a…2025-08-19 20:58:09 <unpx> https://x.com/l3olanza/status/1957807617964679462
fa3f2ebb52f4fa66…a9f7f49d…2025-03-07 14:26:25 <awt_akris> No more dumps from the silk road stash for the next 4 years.
cdd7187e79a2e324…79a2e324…2024-03-22 13:13:07 crtdaydreams legitimately curious as to signpost's speculation on an end to this madness
1b5a34271cd937c9…eb5170a9…2024-05-20 21:51:52 <PeterL> Where I work we just had a network update, we were told "be careful about your browsing, we now have the ability to see all your traffic. But nobody will be looking at it unless there is a problem." I wonder what pest traffic looks like to their monitoring software?
bd1d9e6980f13834…36797f72…2024-12-28 18:20:32 <discord_bridge> (awtho) billymg: I built llama-cpp. I attempted to run a 17gb deepseek model, but it ended up freezing my macbook. I tried another deepseek model using LM Studio (which should be accessible via Cline) but it is very very slow.
b2d084d5f3735463…f3735463…2025-08-19 20:58:59 <unpx> Reads: ``JUST IN: 🚨 Bitcoin is now at risk of a 51% attack as two mining pools control over 51% of the hash power.''
f80ef86dfa3f2ebb…b7af702e…2025-03-07 19:26:59 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: from the exchrate, would seem that dumping (as a whole) not skipped a beat just yet, tho
b531534ccdd7187e…cdd7187e…2024-03-22 13:13:56 <crtdaydreams> man my grammar looks like it came out of a grade 5 workbook, my apologies
829982591b5a3427…1cd937c9…2024-05-20 21:56:33 <asciilifeform> PeterL: closest'd be traditional vpn, most likely
55a5b2fcb2d084d5…30274409…2025-08-19 23:38:14 <billymg> i think that's happened over a dozen or so times in bitcoin's history. always ended up a nothingburger because a) pools aren't miners, so if a pool misbehaves miners can redirect their hash power, b) there is a colossal disincentive to try to destabilize the network if the network is your bread & butter
894556cef80ef86d…fa3f2ebb…2025-03-07 19:27:33 <awt_akris> Yeah I think the ride's over for a lot of ogs.
e03aa161c9b2a8ee…c9b2a8ee…2024-05-20 22:00:43 asciilifeform at one time wanted to specify 'packets can have random rng padding beyond 496 bytes -- but -- crucially - with no frag reassembly on receiver end, and only padded if peer aint answering the usual way' but already imho toomany movingparts
d65c45ba4588a19a…4588a19a…2025-08-21 13:47:17 <awt_akris> eh looks like some old messages just got unstuck
f59093031d8b7006…894556ce…2025-03-07 19:39:00 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/log-search?q=ogs&chan=trilema
02b38ac37b817376…7b817376…2024-03-22 21:44:51 <crtdaydreams> kind of suprised he hasn't carked it yet
e14109e1e03aa161…e03aa161…2024-05-20 22:01:11 <asciilifeform> ^ notionally, it ought not to be possible to write an ids rule against pest that won't nail dns & similar
44d4dedc51663962…51663962…2024-12-28 21:44:47 <billymg> when you try running the model with llama-server you can open 'Activity Monitor' and see how much memory you have available
4c6fea6ed65c45ba…55a5b2fc…2025-08-21 16:08:34 <billymg> https://blog.reaction.la/ comment section is the best discussion on the net right now
8d8da31e02b38ac3…02b38ac3…2024-03-22 21:46:11 <crtdaydreams> there are some wild consipracy theories out there, neva know dood might be prolonging his life with the blood of unborn infants lolol
e4a8fe8444d4dedc…5622287b…2024-12-28 21:35:38 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Is there a way I can safely do that without freezing my machine?
c3e08cca4c6fea6e…d65c45ba…2025-08-21 20:10:26 <awt_akris> Might be time to take a stab at the 'hammer' approach to the NAT problem
771f518d65d736a1…bfeab982…2025-03-07 21:21:45 <signpost> hashrate peaked in feb and has not recovered yet.
145477f18d8da31e…8d8da31e…2024-03-22 21:48:21 <crtdaydreams> i here some of this stuff second hand and struggle to comprehend how people end up believing half of it
e45995de1def719c…1def719c…2024-05-20 22:02:23 <asciilifeform> afaik 'no frag reasm, wait for 1st frag & discard any others, use only 1st 496b' would req os support
eb3d0fe8e4a8fe84…44d4dedc…2024-12-28 21:45:37 <billymg> ah, def not enough then for the 17gb model, it must have been swapping and that's what froze it
a69a1333c3e08cca…b2d084d5…2025-08-27 00:11:59 <unpx> Hmm I was looking up on logs about why you don't setup TLS. Is there a reason? Also pestnet.io has misconfigured Apache dev certs in it
83bfd566771f518d…771f518d…2025-03-07 21:22:52 <signpost> everyone always has a narrative other than supply and demand
51332d56eb3d0fe8…eb3d0fe8…2024-12-28 21:47:08 <billymg> considering the OS, plus browser, IDE, whatever other random things are gonna take up at least 50% of your ram i'd say your best bet is trying it out on your desktop PC (assuming that has the specs for it)
e5d80fb0a69a1333…a69a1333…2025-08-27 00:15:27 <unpx> I'm not the first... http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086655
420a48c483bfd566…83bfd566…2025-03-07 21:29:55 <signpost> same fear and loathing when it was stuck at $58k; I expect to hear same fear and loathing when we're stuck at $298k someday, lol
67aa3f87500a293c…1b5a3427…2024-05-20 22:09:42 <PeterL> wouldn't a traditional vpn have all the traffic going to one address, pest would look more like having n vpns where n is your number of nodes connected?
4b6deb2e51332d56…51332d56…2024-12-28 21:47:49 <billymg> you can run it on a desktop pc and serve on your local network too, so your macbook's VS Code plugin will just be making requests to llama-server on your desktop
bbad5854e5d80fb0…e5d80fb0…2025-08-27 00:15:40 <unpx> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-21#1086621
53659888420a48c4…52f4fa66…2025-03-07 21:53:38 <billymg> https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1898112552900403569 << at the very least a substantially different tone from previous administrations
adfee5d5a6621d69…4b920af9…2024-03-23 16:53:25 signpost curious when we'll see the payback attack here.
a3249877a6621d69…a6621d69…2024-03-29 23:40:18 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-09-12#1030804 << is this currently the only standing mirror of pentacle?
aae2b1b467aa3f87…500a293c…2024-05-21 00:49:44 <asciilifeform> PeterL: was thinking from packet snooper pov, but yea
e75cbfd94b6deb2e…e4a8fe84…2024-12-28 21:39:36 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Desktop has: 16 GB Radeon RX 6900 XT with 5120, 128 GB ECC ram.
1ffc17e9bbad5854…c3e08cca…2025-08-27 14:02:56 <awt_akris> Had Claude take a look at Akris and found some potential bugs duplicate packet bugs.
3c48a11a53659888…420a48c4…2025-03-07 21:58:52 <signpost> seems like he's just letting Sacks drive, has otherwise very little idea what the fuck a bitcoin is.
15fc3088adfee5d5…adfee5d5…2024-03-23 16:54:18 <signpost> have to be 10s of thousands of ackbars that've entered in the past few years.
66f36131aae2b1b4…67aa3f87…2024-05-21 12:04:01 <PeterL> Iranian President dies in a helicopter crash - was it just bad weather like they are reporting or was the crash caused by sabotage by the Israelis?
83c751d8e75cbfd9…4b6deb2e…2024-12-28 22:05:16 <billymg> that oughta be enough to get it going. i've only tried it with nvidia but you build it with HIP for AMD GPUs. llama-server then has a flag -ngl, --gpu-layers that lets you control how much to offload to VRAM
5cde31b71ffc17e9…1ffc17e9…2025-08-27 14:07:34 <awt_akris> unpx tls is an exploit - fundamentally flawed
63457f7f15fc3088…bd29083d…2024-03-23 17:12:15 <asciilifeform> signpost: if this re moscow snackbar, the 'islamic' flavour was 100% sprayed on by usg
f150766166f36131…d76c4bb1…2024-05-21 14:56:22 <discord_bridge> (shinohai) It was Shin Bet operative Eli Kopterberg.
0f0011b283c751d8…83c751d8…2024-12-28 22:06:07 <billymg> it will exit if you exceed your available vram, so the idea is to increase until it fails
186047865cde31b7…bbad5854…2025-08-27 21:07:03 <unpx> jonsykkel will nod at this https://github.com/cisco/ChezScheme/compare/main...ovenpasta:ChezScheme:master
e5e09cbb63457f7f…15fc3088…2024-03-23 17:18:01 <signpost> I mean that is who might be used, not who is behind
04e6fbdcf1507661…b8c5290c…2024-05-21 17:38:10 <signpost> everyone knows the j00z control the weather.
ca1824970f0011b2…0f0011b2…2024-12-28 22:07:19 <billymg> the rest of the model will then load into your regular ram and the inferencing will happen on the CPU, so it will be slower but usable
faa7db7318604786…899e8b23…2025-08-27 21:11:49 <jon> 2 be honest never understood wat other ppls code even dose
b98809edca182497…5fe702bb…2025-01-05 14:27:23 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Pretty sure I saw hanbot at the mall a couple days ago.
8b18dcfefcb9b3d6…3c48a11a…2025-04-11 03:54:30 <signpost> even yellow rocks moving like a shitcoin. usd not feeling well.
fef264f2142d1fc8…142d1fc8…2024-03-23 17:19:07 <signpost> saw earlier that the ru soldiers fed one his own ear
8b608bc2ac26da9e…ac26da9e…2024-05-21 17:42:35 <signpost> seems like not much return on investment; afaik these were just subordinate bureaucrats to the supreme leader.
2948e599b98809ed…770caa9a…2025-01-05 14:46:19 <asciilifeform> awt: still lived there, last time anyone knew, so possible
6a138b2415c68138…18604786…2025-09-11 17:38:40 <unpx> Who was the one girl (not Bernstein's Tanja) pushing post quantum crypto you saw as a fraud?
43654a768b18dcfe…8b18dcfe…2025-04-11 03:55:32 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-04-09#1034862 << orange man is in top comedic form.
4f123bfefef264f2…63457f7f…2024-03-23 17:22:12 <asciilifeform> in usa, snackbars set up when dnc goebbelses need it for news cycle/diversion, and not otherwise
375b62cc8b608bc2…8b608bc2…2024-05-21 17:43:23 <signpost> though watching what happens in the gazan rubble, seems like israel does sometimes just kill on aesthetic grounds.
3027440943654a76…45ae5574…2025-04-11 14:39:57 <billymg> signpost: apparently not an authentic trump tweet but it might as well have been
24f16e22375b62cc…66f36131…2024-05-21 17:45:09 <PeterL> maybe they thought the supreme leader would be on board?
7338fed02e9a6ecf…2948e599…2025-01-14 21:27:08 <asciilifeform> dunno that we have any eth enthusiasts here ( with possible exception of unpx ?? )
4630be954c1a0e59…6122fdae…2025-09-13 14:20:55 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-11#1034920 << yes
d8540bb030274409…f147a5b3…2025-04-25 13:14:42 <PeterL> so, I wrote a v in ada: [ https://dpaste.com/9SV3JLSQZ ][ v-ada_genesis.vpatch ] , [ https://dpaste.com/89KN3MG2R ][ v-ada_genesis.vpatch.peterl.sig ]
ea1f42c624f16e22…aae2b1b4…2024-05-21 18:01:04 <asciilifeform> tedious 'game into 1 goalpost' -- when the hell will a reich official get into a rusty chopper and feed himself to wildlife in mountains?!
7f35ce727338fed0…2e9a6ecf…2025-01-15 20:49:26 <unpx> asciilifeform: not an enthusiast, just won the equivalent of ~1k usd in xrp. Never been an enthusiast of cryptocurrencies
d2fd2ed3d8540bb0…d8540bb0…2025-04-25 13:15:33 <PeterL> would appreciate feedback if I am on the right track for Ada-ing or if it complete trash?
a751c7f8ea1f42c6…375b62cc…2024-05-22 17:49:48 <signpost> guy couldn't get a chicom or russian helicopter?
58d5f43c7f35ce72…7f35ce72…2025-01-15 20:49:46 <unpx> Also, sad news for my edge node https://lowendbox.com/blog/buyvm-acquired-by-cloudzy/
abd51407d2fd2ed3…d2fd2ed3…2025-04-25 13:18:59 <PeterL> gprbuild settings and license shamelessly cribbed from asciilifeform's works
683ebebae355fbdf…e355fbdf…2024-03-26 18:46:19 asciilifeform does double take, what happened to the decimal pt there..?
57b162b0d14420d7…24f16e22…2024-05-22 17:51:24 <PeterL> IIRC, it was a Russian helicopter, perhaps a bit old.
a646f66bcaa894e5…07f93b10…2025-09-19 16:27:30 <awt_akris> Going well signpost. Good to see you're still on the net.
525bf28dce3a1908…ce3a1908…2025-01-20 07:08:53 <signpost> what a wild couple of days. presidential shitcoin.
209bec44a646f66b…4c6fea6e…2025-09-20 00:34:32 <billymg> logger is loading slowly, restarted apache and postgres, not the issue. checked the logs and have a bunch of requests coming in fast, possibly someone scraping, idk
9a65321a209bec44…209bec44…2025-09-20 00:43:04 <billymg> requests coming from different IPs, but all within 43.173.*.*
9d7defd942c38dac…ba2f623c…2025-04-25 13:19:50 <asciilifeform> PeterL: can put somewhere other than dpaste tho plz
38d3c2ce92f00ffa…92f00ffa…2024-05-22 17:55:05 <signpost> reads to me like the kind of passive contempt that builds under the rule of a moron.
9eca6fb238d3c2ce…38d3c2ce…2024-05-22 17:55:22 <signpost> everyone down the chain of command grumbling and hoping their ever-shittier work brings the thing down.
f6d1eb7f75a4ff78…7338fed0…2025-01-21 00:30:07 asciilifeform lulz re 2016 rerun. maga(tm)(r)(c)!111111
8a48a4735598ebf1…5598ebf1…2025-09-20 00:49:55 <awt_akris> Crazy that pestnet has been up for like 3 years now.
96b94caaab72a67f…ab72a67f…2024-03-29 16:54:49 <asciilifeform> ^ sshd (on systemd-infected boxen) booby, hidden in autoconf liquishit.
6855145f9eca6fb2…ea1f42c6…2024-05-22 18:07:09 <asciilifeform> 'the rocket went up, then came down in the swamp; how we were paid, thus did we work'(tm)(r)(ru)(transl. roughly)
b7724542f6d1eb7f…e26efbec…2025-01-23 03:56:24 <discord_bridge> (awtho) So I’m working on a thing that attempts to email existing customers and get them to buy more stuff. And I need to be able to parse any csv file with emails and associated data. So right now I have Claude look at the file and just generate a script to parse it, which is then run in a background task. Pretty wi
03fbe62e8a48a473…8a48a473…2025-09-20 00:55:48 <awt_akris> Got a model running locally at 7 tokens/sec that's actually not bad. It's about 85gb. Trying to figure out how to get it to incorporate web search.
596b472096b94caa…8a9147c8…2024-03-29 19:19:31 <signpost> why I'm still grunting pentacle forward, albeit slowly.
fd94525b6855145f…ab1801ca…2024-05-22 19:44:56 <PeterL> Speaking of reich officials, where I work this week we had FDA auditors show up for their "annual" audit for the first time since Obama was in office. Apparently they just had a big hiring and are finally getting through their backlog.
314b293e03fbe62e…caa894e5…2025-09-20 00:58:18 <signpost> open-webui is pretty good as a multi-llm fiddler
e188f2b0fd94525b…9b615be9…2024-05-24 13:41:08 <awt_akris> Well, back up to .055 eth/btc with the etf approval
78c4c71d18ee956e…cb39ed75…2025-04-25 13:21:35 <asciilifeform> worthy occasion to bake a new one, neh
48b19a8d982626c3…982626c3…2024-03-29 19:20:38 <signpost> distributions patch openssh to support systemd notification, and libsystemd
e7ef863320eaa1c7…20eaa1c7…2025-01-23 05:12:59 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) May I have the URL of the final release of TRB before it became inactive?
36a3870bb5a50a7f…03fbe62e…2025-09-20 01:10:24 <awt_akris> Have used open-webui will give it another shot
f045343d48b19a8d…48b19a8d…2024-03-29 19:20:38 <signpost> does depend on lzma." << the everything's connected to the everything
fb2b5f9b36a3870b…b5a50a7f…2025-09-20 02:12:05 <signpost> ah well, it's just another shitwad of iirc js and python, but it at least has the web search diddler
96ddf0403b4ad155…3b4ad155…2025-04-25 19:19:15 <PeterL> asciilifeform: [ https://petermlambert91ac6c32fb.wordpress.com/v-ada/ ][ v-ada ] page made in 10 minutes on free wordpress site, try not to barf to hard.
2ad3d93f89806d4d…ca182497…2025-01-24 14:01:00 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-01-23#1034707 <
9a0b2b5ffb2b5f9b…276b7232…2025-09-26 18:07:06 <awt_akris> Akris Desktop is now installable via pip: pip install akris-desktop
bc931e4196ddf040…96ddf040…2025-04-25 19:20:22 <PeterL> I seem to remember them being easier to use in the past, will look into setting something up elsewhere.
d37b17e32f9fb74b…2f9fb74b…2024-03-29 19:21:29 signpost needs to shit out a depgraph of pentacle. thing's minimally intertwingled aside small.
afabb04c2ad3d93f…2ad3d93f…2025-01-24 14:01:16 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-01-23#1034707 << http://thebitcoin.foundation/ and http://btcbase.org/patches
6007caee9a0b2b5f…15c68138…2025-09-28 15:29:58 <jonsykkel> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2798#selection-349.1-357.204
df2043f1bc931e41…78c4c71d…2025-04-25 19:59:26 <asciilifeform> PeterL: no reason to be shy of shite hosting, itsa signed vpatch after all neh
4e02fac0d37b17e3…f4f087c1…2024-03-29 19:33:32 <unpx> Holy cow https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39865810 fascinating
24b6b838d37b17e3…a3249877…2024-03-29 23:42:34 <crtdaydreams> and signpost, the patches that you've signed, does that indicate that you've *read* it?
b0ccc844afabb04c…afabb04c…2025-01-24 14:01:42 <billymg> first link contains build instructions but due to bitrot will need the second for grabbing the patches
1e24fa46df2043f1…df2043f1…2025-04-25 20:00:13 asciilifeform notices that its the afaik 1st publication under 'vpl' (aside from asciilifeform's orig. vpl article, that is)
a1f6609224b6b838…d37b17e3…2024-03-29 23:42:30 <signpost> yup, though I am grunting through standing up another webserver today
d6780e07cff3a6e2…cff3a6e2…2025-09-28 15:30:21 <jonsykkel> if a squaring costs 0.49 of a multiplication, and the adition subtractions and bitshift each cost 0.01 of a multiplication, u get 0.49*2+0.01*4 = 1.02
8724830b1e24fa46…1e24fa46…2025-04-25 20:01:43 asciilifeform had nfi that wp's public toilet prohibits hosting files. (part of an organized push to herd coad to shithub, perhaps?)
bbe7fa7da1f66092…24b6b838…2024-03-29 23:48:46 <crtdaydreams> does that incl. the linux kernel itself?
f3599d298724830b…bc931e41…2025-04-25 20:16:36 <PeterL> well, you can host cat pics just fine. Just not anything that looks like it might be executable code, or something like that.
bec23b99bbe7fa7d…a1f66092…2024-03-29 23:43:41 <signpost> the first patch contains the found item. my signature indicates that it is as I found it. whether I’ve read the entire kernel myself does not help you.
fca3ba2db847078a…b847078a…2025-09-28 16:01:58 <asciilifeform> also take note, in the text, of 'asymptotically cheaper'
368e330ff3599d29…f3599d29…2025-04-25 20:17:54 <PeterL> I think there were a couple things that used your "you are breaking the law if you use this" license before you switched to vpl
1cf0db40bec23b99…bec23b99…2024-03-29 23:44:41 <signpost> what I want is to carve large chunks off these items and make what was carved off approachable.
298bedcefca3ba2d…fca3ba2d…2025-09-28 16:04:18 <asciilifeform> (i.e. for very large integers, cost of addition/subtraction is basically 0 -- it happens as fast as you can read'em outta ram -- vs. cost of multiplications)
2b287218368e330f…368e330f…2025-04-25 20:21:40 <PeterL> as was setting up page, ran into "changing font size requires buying premium package", cheap hosting is cheap, I guess
7a9e0cb61cf0db40…bbe7fa7d…2024-03-29 23:51:16 <crtdaydreams> will the "carving off" be implemented as vpatches?
aeb3565f298bedce…d6780e07…2025-09-28 15:53:01 <jonsykkel> i invented the numbers, as i understand ur logic, ur saying the fact that u can replace any multiplication with this difrence of squarings thing means necesarily that the squareings cant be cheaper than 0.5 of a multiplication, since u could then replace the x*y with a ((x+y)^2-(x-y)^2)>>2. but it ignores the cost of + - >
48600db32b287218…2b287218…2025-04-28 15:54:26 <PeterL> asciilifeform: at first I was confused by your statement above re. this is first VPL item, I knew I had seen it somewhere else. Then I realized blatta was release without a license, and I had stuck a VPL file on my local copy.
9179f5b07a9e0cb6…1cf0db40…2024-03-29 23:46:01 <signpost> many items within I have read, but I’m not swearing shit about the rubbish I’ve dragged together into a home except “this is the artifact as found at time”
cd2268337a9e0cb6…7a9e0cb6…2024-03-29 23:51:45 <crtdaydreams> like, just vpatches just removing hundreds of lines with the explanation of "this is crap"
6122fdae48600db3…8724830b…2025-04-28 15:55:32 <asciilifeform> yea afaik nobody's actually picked it up before
50390d656122fdae…48600db3…2025-04-29 19:18:58 <PeterL> [ https://petermlambert91ac6c32fb.wordpress.com/2025/04/29/update-to-v-ada-temporary-wot/ ][updated my v to use a temporary WoT keyring]
61ec10e1ebfeb7ee…9179f5b0…2024-03-29 23:46:22 <signpost> yeah go look at the thing. it’s not more than a pile of v trees
0a2a34e402bb2b2d…298bedce…2025-09-28 16:05:54 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: entirely correct, we ignore cost of +/- as width -> inf
c906ff495b05b6b3…f69d5791…2024-03-29 23:52:34 <crtdaydreams> I'm interested in reading thru stuff and putting a seal on it is all
89da1a5dc906ff49…c906ff49…2024-03-29 23:53:35 <crtdaydreams> It's a pretty mammoth and long-term undertaking to scroll back through years of development logs even for a single project and write off crap that's just that. crap.
2972be2ccba9b632…0a2a34e4…2025-09-28 16:06:12 <asciilifeform> that's what means 'asymptotically' there.
d914fa0489da1a5d…89da1a5d…2024-03-29 23:54:32 <crtdaydreams> if there's a specific item of interest that you reckon priority needs another set of eyes on to do just that, lemme know
dc55ccb0d914fa04…d914fa04…2024-03-29 23:57:04 <crtdaydreams> for the moment I'd like to examine the actual vtools subset
dc0bc9ede44b0883…2972be2c…2025-09-28 16:06:55 <asciilifeform> what's you been up to , jonsykkel , other than working through asciilifeform's proofs ?
1f979f5bdc55ccb0…dc55ccb0…2024-03-30 00:06:40 <crtdaydreams> have you made any more adjustments on the pbuild tool?
b19a36f7dc0bc9ed…dc0bc9ed…2025-09-28 16:07:21 asciilifeform for his part -- deep in fpga deserts, for some time nao
d8935d2fb19a36f7…e44b0883…2025-09-28 15:58:50 <jonsykkel> aha, saltmine? ive been up to various non-computer stuf. making video game now, need a rsa for it, so geting bak to ffa
0c487627bb28c4b0…bb28c4b0…2024-03-30 00:10:40 <crtdaydreams> is the plan to keep it that way or to make it more akin to a la gentoo, sync vbuild trees etc
8f91cffe0c487627…a2dd3d05…2024-03-30 07:36:46 <discord_bridge> (tenebras.lux) Hello, everyone! I've been following you for a few months now, devouring your blog posts and WoT with keen interest. Despite my enthusiasm, I haven't managed to set up my own blog yet. I've just gotten my hands on a Raspberry Pi, sparking a new adventure. Greetings from Romania! Delighted to make your acquai
7638cdab2730c814…2730c814…2025-09-28 16:11:26 <asciilifeform> left the salt mines (hopefully, perma-left)
470e7a297638cdab…d8935d2f…2025-09-28 15:59:48 <jonsykkel> gona turn it into #1 global esport, become brillionaire. maybe i fund ur computronium cube computer reserch
239c1cd094e0bcdb…5b05b6b3…2024-03-30 14:17:27 <signpost> crtdaydreams: I don't expect that it needs to get much bigger.
8f2d09b9239c1cd0…239c1cd0…2024-03-30 14:17:48 <signpost> and contrary to gentoo and other distros there wont be a centralized concept of The repository.
5d21fc068f2d09b9…8f2d09b9…2024-03-30 14:18:08 <signpost> different people should be able to have different vtrees present in /src and produce systems of their choosing.
cc0ebeabaa72cfaf…8413a676…2025-09-28 16:12:11 asciilifeform gonna have to upload the xgcd chapter at some pt before jonsykkel gets to where it's reqd
7c69369a5d21fc06…5d21fc06…2024-03-30 14:19:18 signpost will explain better once I've got my online shit scraped into place again.
f1dca89e7c69369a…94e0bcdb…2024-03-30 15:43:15 <discord_bridge> (tenebras.lux) I will start with this tutorial, hoping to succeed! http://billymg.com/2022/03/a-beginners-guide-to-installing-gentoo-part-one/
bd4b3b4bf1dca89e…96b94caa…2024-03-30 16:34:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-29#1033022 << hilarious wankage in there -- blaming errybody but the obv. culprit (or the opensores liquishit that made the lul possible)
af9ed0978fe0fbae…9a0b2b5f…2025-09-28 17:01:51 <awt_akris> billymg: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-27#1034939 << nice blackpill wrt this: https://x.com/curtis_yarvin/status/1972282312173003180 - yes yarvin is on X now.
cf5f8670bd4b3b4b…9821fe72…2024-03-30 17:48:39 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-30#1033049 << i've used that guide many times (and as recently as a month ago) for new builds and it's always a breeze. i have a few notes in a text file outlining some updates/clarifications that haven't made it into the guide yet so if you hit any snags don't hesitate to ask in here
574e43b5cf5f8670…cf5f8670…2024-03-30 17:51:32 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-30#1033050 << the /g/ thread was better
1fa448c00bd7967d…0bd7967d…2024-04-08 14:16:10 <awt_akris> I've been tracking the eth btc ratio for a while. Went down from like .08 to .05
7017568d1fa448c0…b84fd43e…2024-04-08 15:31:57 <billymg> they're gonna have to pull the plug on it eventually, it's costing *someone* real money (btc) to keep it propped up
ac2717747017568d…1fa448c0…2024-04-08 15:47:09 <awt_akris> AFAICT it's mostly just desperate "degenerates"
ec5b4331ac271774…7017568d…2024-04-08 15:53:15 <billymg> in that case will end in a "slowly, then suddenly" rush to the exits style collapse
39182c3cec5b4331…ac271774…2024-04-08 16:17:06 <awt_akris> Definitely been in a down trend since 2017.
ae494ab939182c3c…86ad57b3…2024-04-09 03:41:36 <signpost> iirc the eth power rangers recently proposed to change the issuance schedule *again* just as the govt starts rumbling about them probably getting dubbed an unregistered security.
3ce3ef6fae494ab9…ae494ab9…2024-04-09 03:42:35 <signpost> utter morons, and it's a miracle traditional btc still works to this day (even if there's shit bolted to the side) rather than being in the same state.
ec0760423ce3ef6f…72683ede…2024-04-09 18:22:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-04-08#1033104 << behold, the shitcoins which have 'governance' (i.e. perp at the heart of the scam turning knobs ) entirely similar.
657c341bec076042…ec076042…2024-04-09 18:25:10 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-04-08#1033105 << in fact worx. (see also vintage illustration re wai.)
ba5b74d1657c341b…657c341b…2024-04-09 18:27:49 <asciilifeform> ... what ~not~ worx, is 'moon'. but this aint a component of bitcoin per se.
fc6f7a0bde4d7412…de4d7412…2024-04-17 16:37:35 <asciilifeform> reich, however, dumped coupla yrs of mine's worth, and has at least as much remaining to dump afaik
3c44e819fc6f7a0b…fc6f7a0b…2024-04-17 16:39:06 <asciilifeform> (not even to mention the papercoin machine...)
389e9d2e2e61b711…2e61b711…2024-04-17 16:55:04 <signpost> gbtc dumped 300k coins already and we're still in the $60,000s
2a20dd3a389e9d2e…389e9d2e…2024-04-17 16:56:22 <signpost> sooner the rest make it into stronger hands (e.g. king of Qatar or UAE) the better
27a066db2a20dd3a…2a20dd3a…2024-04-17 16:58:22 <signpost> looking at stonks, who knows. maybe they gut the pig. maybe they fatten him up for another year.
2c50b45827a066db…c94e9da1…2024-04-17 19:19:22 asciilifeform finds it peculiar that (afaik) no one, anywhere, ever asks why the fuck reich is able to refill its btc piggy when umpteenth dpr is busted. have the latter never heard of not keeping plaintext keyz around ? or wat
67be35902c50b458…27a066db…2024-04-17 19:42:28 <signpost> dpr seems like a guy that lucked into a bunch of drug flows because he was dumb enough to run the shop / take the fall.
5b267f9a67be3590…67be3590…2024-04-17 19:43:32 <signpost> iirc he was hacked of BTC prior to getting busted, and this brought about no enlightenment.
bb2f361b5b267f9a…5b267f9a…2024-04-17 19:46:06 <signpost> may even be an element of death by cop in it. he fell for elementary entrapment.
b861b2c5bb2f361b…bb2f361b…2024-04-17 19:46:29 <signpost> guy's hindbrain might've wanted to subvert him.
39fc72bdb861b2c5…2c50b458…2024-04-17 20:36:00 <asciilifeform> signpost: let's suppose. but 100% of the others, rly? either reich simply lies re 'we found over9000 coin' (mp's version iirc) or 100% of the perps are diagnosable morons
b919068e39fc72bd…39fc72bd…2024-04-17 20:40:18 <asciilifeform> the 'dpr bust coins 1.0, 2.0, ... N were a fiction' hypothesis not holds up, given that the waterfall never seems to run outta water (and the coins being dumped not often appear to be freshly mined)
5e417992b919068e…b919068e…2024-04-17 20:42:13 <asciilifeform> ( for thread-completeness: it is of course possible that reich fills waterfall primarily by mining (paid for with printola, at e.g. nsa) and then traded for 'used' coin at reich exchanges, ~then~ dumped )
06b8af775e417992…b861b2c5…2024-04-18 17:33:33 <signpost> I think these, the bankmans, the dprs, are severely mentally ill, and seek sweet release at the end of the amphetamine abuse journey.
100d446306b8af77…06b8af77…2024-04-18 17:34:05 <signpost> nothing special about them except that the perverse culture selects for them.
81431941100d4463…100d4463…2024-04-18 17:34:27 <signpost> the guy that started wework, same fuck. zuckerberg, same fuck.
7ea8bd73f5183efa…f5183efa…2024-04-18 17:35:23 <signpost> but yes, enough of these floating around in bitcoin to keep harvests meeting quota
1086dda17ea8bd73…7ea8bd73…2024-04-18 17:36:01 <signpost> plebs want to be farmed by whoever says the magic words according to the state religion.
8fe5a9acc3e1f6bf…c3e1f6bf…2024-04-18 17:43:39 <signpost> worth mentioning also that the blackrock cornpile is now bigger than saylor's by ~100k iirc
22f747818fe5a9ac…8fe5a9ac…2024-04-18 17:45:49 <signpost> bitcoin was never going to crucify the bankers itself.
77cfd3a022f74781…5e417992…2024-04-18 18:04:49 <asciilifeform> sword-that-fought-by-itself only in mythology, sadly
0230685085e8b8fc…85e8b8fc…2024-04-20 00:11:54 <signpost> wooohoo! happy halving to all who celebrate!
b1f5549b7da6895c…7da6895c…2024-04-20 12:47:50 <billymg> block spam switch got flipped back on last night after the halving, fees were up to over $200 for a basic non-segwit transaction
bddf4df3b1f5549b…573a0d19…2024-04-20 13:24:51 <discord_bridge> (awtho) The blockchain has become an ad platform.
95ca5bc8bddf4df3…39182c3c…2024-04-22 13:55:09 <awt_akris> Was looking for an mp-wp setup guide and discovered that thewhet.net is down.
9b15cd6195ca5bc8…bddf4df3…2024-04-22 13:56:23 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Found billymg's guide here though: http://billymg.com/2022/02/running-mp-wp-on-a-modern-musl-based-gentoo/
f207a1a19b15cd61…b1f5549b…2024-04-22 21:22:58 <billymg> awt_akris: happy to help if you run into any weird issues. i've also got a php 7 compatible branch of mp-wp if you need it (in tgz form, don't have a patch for it)
ae1f9ae4f207a1a1…95ca5bc8…2024-04-22 21:20:01 <awt_akris> billymg: tenebras was looking for it - I think he's only in discord still
c95f698b3feba852…02306850…2024-04-24 16:48:23 <signpost> https://www.coinex.com/en/halving-block-auction << v v rare sat pls no steal
83f4966fc95f698b…3feba852…2024-04-25 01:38:33 <billymg> https://www.atr.org/biden-calls-for-44-6-capital-gains-tax-rate-highest-capital-gains-tax-since-its-creation-in-1922/
7ed7228d83f4966f…ae1f9ae4…2024-04-25 02:20:52 <awt_akris> https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/04/24/samourai-wallet-founders-arrested-and-charged-with-money-laundering/
0b89cd7eba6191cb…ba6191cb…2024-04-25 03:01:06 asciilifeform lolz re there still being, apparently, folx who try to run mixer, gox, etc. with an identifiable reich meat presence
692133320b89cd7e…0b89cd7e…2024-04-25 03:04:04 <asciilifeform> 'The pair sought investors by marketing the same premise – that "dark/grey market participants" would be included in their user base...' wtf
be2bd735b1e0c929…b1e0c929…2024-04-25 03:05:52 <asciilifeform> terminally stupid, and insulting to intelligence, punishment oughta be electric chair
24b7d593be2bd735…83f4966f…2024-04-25 21:59:13 <billymg> awt_akris: what's the latest link for the pest discord bridge?
6231f31324b7d593…9b15cd61…2024-04-25 21:56:31 <discord_bridge> (awtho) billymg: https://discord.gg/8j3Dmet2ac
a96fb9b924b7d593…6231f313…2024-04-25 21:56:48 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Doesn't expire and good for 10 uses
eec3d165542a8649…a96fb9b9…2024-04-30 19:15:32 <discord_bridge> (shinohai) Goddamn I wish Qntra was still around https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/early-bitcoin-investor-charged-tax-fraud
2c0c0016eec3d165…a501c4d4…2024-04-30 20:36:49 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-02#1022007
d9ff4002d76c4bb1…2c0c0016…2024-04-30 23:25:49 <billymg> i found this short Aleksandr Dugin / Tucker interview interesting. his thesis seems to be that all this transgender/transhumanism stuff in the west is the result of liberalism ad absurdum. the individual freed from the church, then free from the nation, then free from his own
a135c0d6d9ff4002…d9ff4002…2024-04-30 23:30:00 <billymg> [...] then free from his own gender, and eventually free from being human
b19618d30000000000000000…2024-06-19 08:41:53 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-06-03#1116123 << i've stitched and fiberglassed the hull, but it's a slow gowing, because i'm also doing work on the house. right now it's a very impressive prop in the garage though, this man does things.
5aea1453b19618d3…b19618d3…2024-06-19 08:45:34 <phf> it's not going to come out picture perfect, because the trick is not to obsess about quality too much since i don't know what i'm doing, otherwise i'm never going to finish it
ba9769015aea1453…5aea1453…2024-06-19 08:58:10 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-05-09#1116085 << russian visionary writer viktor pelevin keeps churning out books, the latest one of course has llms and chatgpts in it. i'm too lazy to summirize at the moment, and there's no english translation. i bought a copy on %<l&}Dmz|_GìĤ
a07b4c21ba976901…ba976901…2024-06-19 08:58:10 <phf> the flight from russia, and speaking of the slav lands are as lovely as ever. somehow no roaming nkvd cars snatching people to send them to frontlines. place feels "tighter" somehow, more galvanized, all the conscientious objectors left to azerbaijan and turkey %<l&}Dmz|_GìĤ
f84fc502a07b4c21…a07b4c21…2024-06-19 09:04:05 <phf> they are getting a lot of chinese imports, cars, phones, i dunno luggage, and it's not the trash americans are getting, but chinese internal market quality items close or at their original sale price. gave me some view into what chinese internal market must be like, and it's really fucking impressive
bede9b08f84fc502…f84fc502…2024-06-19 09:21:21 <phf> the entire trip i was thinking about propaganda, and how even when i'm aware of it, i'm not impervious to it. took me 10 minutes to get through russia passport control, and hour and a half to get through u.s. one on return. shit, it took me less time to get through turkey passport +Qn{ld/E˷-\& :`3<
6b9df8afbede9b08…bede9b08…2024-06-19 09:21:21 <phf> control, because outside of u.s. they don't have job creation shamblers making the process less efficient by ineptly directing traffic. for one. +Qn{ld/E˷-\& :`3<
b45748736b9df8af…6b9df8af…2024-06-19 09:25:46 <phf> and then you see the shadows of chinese internal market, and have that "oh, i guess they lied to us about this also". u.s. has become a third world, but the propaganda keeps it moving like wile e. coyote and the cliff
c78af48dc78d0b14…c78d0b14…2024-06-19 14:33:12 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-19#1033366 << read it recently. entertaining
af7fb155c78af48d…edf7cc0c…2024-06-19 14:33:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-19 04:58:13 phf[jonsykkel]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2024-05-09#1116085 << russian visionary writer viktor pelevin keeps churning out books, the latest one of course has llms and chatgpts in it. i'm too lazy to summirize at the moment, and there's no english translation. i bought a
5b963acaaf7fb155…c78af48d…2024-06-19 14:37:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-19#1033368 << this yes. ( asciilifeform routinely orders directly from cn, tho under 0 illusion that he's paying anyffing close to the 'internal' price. )
25e52c045b963aca…af7fb155…2024-06-19 14:37:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-19 05:04:10 phf[jonsykkel]: they are getting a lot of chinese imports, cars, phones, i dunno luggage, and it's not the trash americans are getting, but chinese internal market quality items close or at their original sale price. gave me some view into what chinese internal market must be like, and it's re
054fbb6225e52c04…5b963aca…2024-06-19 14:40:18 <asciilifeform> note, however, that in erry such case, yer riding the usd exch rate. take e.g. eyeglasses, ~10x cheaper in cn than in gringolandia. but the folx who actually live & work there, for the local plebe wage, have to save pennies to buy'em
8ae1e2220000000000000000…2024-06-22 13:34:47 <gregorynyssa> signpost: asciilifeform: If I understand correctly, the website showing the WoT no longer exists, is that right? Do we have another way of sharing keys?
a65229f38ae1e222…054fbb62…2024-06-22 19:06:13 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: it was signpost's www, and went out last yr
a90cbcd2a65229f3…25e52c04…2024-06-22 19:06:15 <bitbot> Logged on 2023-08-30 23:44:01 signpost: blog, deedbot, wot site all lived on that box
b70c97e4a90cbcd2…a65229f3…2024-06-22 19:06:39 asciilifeform not knows whether signpost intends to bring any of it back
040ac095b70c97e4…b70c97e4…2024-06-22 19:07:24 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: none of this oughta prevent anyone from sharing keys tho -- host'em on yer www, get'em from other folxs' www, etc
378ccf94040ac095…040ac095…2024-06-22 19:08:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033381 << there's at least 1 bridge b/w pestnet and heathendom (dun recall precisely which heathen net, given that asciilifeform not uses any of'em, dig in logs if curious)
4e069a96378ccf94…a90cbcd2…2024-06-22 19:09:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 04:55:36 gregorynyssa[billymg]: PeterL: I saw a comment about Mastodon on some website which may have been left by you. Are you a fan of the system by any chance?
77311f314e069a96…378ccf94…2024-06-22 19:11:07 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-21#1033378 << nfi who that was/is
168269e277311f31…4e069a96…2024-06-22 19:11:09 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-21 23:17:10 gregorynyssa[billymg]: Has anyone here followed the news of the trial of Karen Read?
c9d1af02168269e2…77311f31…2024-06-22 19:12:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-21#1033379 << nfi, as nobody's particularly salivating for it, asciilifeform put it in 'back burner' indef
7794ee4bc9d1af02…168269e2…2024-06-22 19:13:00 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-21 23:26:47 gregorynyssa[billymg]: When is the projected release of the 0xF9 version of Pest?
c78887417794ee4b…c9d1af02…2024-06-22 19:13:39 <asciilifeform> there aint 'over9000' interest in the proj. as can probably tell by the silence in the logs.
88e1c481c7888741…c7888741…2024-06-22 19:15:54 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033384 << imho was either remarkably 'fat troll', or genius parody
bad7dbde88e1c481…7794ee4b…2024-06-22 19:15:57 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 09:30:30 gregorynyssa[billymg]: asciilifeform: I wanted to say that this was a remarkable comment.
12b3eace0000000000000000…2024-06-23 01:48:23 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-22#1033929 << It may be worth noting that, like Pest, Mastodon is not centralized.
8ab5d11812b3eace…8565cbd5…2024-06-23 02:27:00 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Gregorynyssa: I've never used Mastodon, was not from me
beceec650000000000000000…2024-06-23 03:22:55 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: Have you done any more reverse-engineering of FPGAs over the past year?
9aa526b7beceec65…88e1c481…2024-06-23 16:05:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033405 << it's a perfect illustration of what ~not~ to do. see e.g. & elsewhere
656fa59c9aa526b7…bad7dbde…2024-06-23 16:05:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 23:17:38 gregorynyssa[billymg]: Do you think the ASN.1 format has any merits?
38d2bccf09ff4101…09ff4101…2024-06-23 16:07:42 <asciilifeform> + this discussion of 'how to correctly represent ciphertexts & keys'
ee3675a538d2bccf…38d2bccf…2024-06-23 16:08:09 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033406 << nsa
d7b4540fee3675a5…656fa59c…2024-06-23 16:08:11 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 23:18:17 gregorynyssa[billymg]: What were the historical circumstances which led to its widespread adoption by the cryptographic community?
e4f854f6d7b4540f…ee3675a5…2024-06-23 16:09:16 <asciilifeform> ( when you see format which makes memory corruption bugs ~inevitable, invites support for 'null ciphers', etc. you can moar or less smell it )
5825991de4f854f6…e4f854f6…2024-06-23 16:10:42 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033409 << nope, and imho is a waste of time. see e.g. & elsewhere re: why.
07defcca5825991d…d7b4540f…2024-06-23 16:10:44 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 23:23:02 gregorynyssa[billymg]: asciilifeform: Have you done any more reverse-engineering of FPGAs over the past year?
f66ff65b102f9fe4…102f9fe4…2024-06-23 16:11:38 <asciilifeform> it's like writing on the sand at beach.
e0ef4cb80000000000000000…2024-06-24 02:34:12 <gregorynyssa> asciilifeform: I see what you mean. The creation of a Forth-like language was meant to reduce the need for file-formats in general.
500e2c140000000000000000…2024-06-24 02:44:58 <gregorynyssa> We need the "bag of LUTs" which was mentioned years ago.
bfb595c4500e2c14…9d405386…2024-06-24 16:01:48 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-23#1033433 << 'we need', but dun hold breath, it not likely to happen
b51d6f59bfb595c4…07defcca…2024-06-24 16:01:50 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-23 22:45:05 gregorynyssa[billymg]: We need the "bag of LUTs" which was mentioned years ago.
334d2a1260f9228e…b51d6f59…2024-06-24 16:02:16 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-23 12:11:22 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: + elsewhere.
ffbc82a8334d2a12…4dcb27cc…2024-06-24 16:02:18 <mod6> re: no moar deedbot.org, we should toss the trb deps up somewhere accessable on the foundation website
98dbe9070000000000000000…2024-06-25 07:56:19 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-24#1033981 << The rise of China will break the stalemate.
c7a16256cbb7348f…cbb7348f…2024-06-25 09:00:01 <crtdaydreams> I see you're coming through jonseks station, are you a friend?
27715b53c7a16256…c7a16256…2024-06-25 09:00:32 <crtdaydreams> My peering config is borked so I wouldn't know who's peered with who at the moment
38b6320fd832c3c4…d832c3c4…2024-06-25 09:02:58 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-19#1033901 << real interesting, I have first hand experience with GWM vehicles, can confirm that the australian imports are hot garbage
10b1c3ab38b6320f…38b6320f…2024-06-25 09:03:28 <crtdaydreams> the really interesting thing is they can't seem to make soft rubber
1629b5ce10b1c3ab…10b1c3ab…2024-06-25 09:04:00 <crtdaydreams> cv boots, seals, etc are all truly rubbish
f5e4443c1629b5ce…1629b5ce…2024-06-25 09:04:35 <crtdaydreams> but on the other hand you can get cheap tyres from them
e6ace149f5e4443c…f5e4443c…2024-06-25 09:05:44 <crtdaydreams> the design of all the global market stuff is no better than any other name brand crap
c5e2603be6ace149…e6ace149…2024-06-25 09:06:20 <crtdaydreams> it just all seems to scale back down to materials
ff9e967f0000000000000000…2024-06-25 09:07:32 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034012 << I am connected to "asciilifeform" through "jonsykkel," and she is connected through me.
bce3fb66ff9e967f…c5e2603b…2024-06-25 09:07:46 <crtdaydreams> remind me where you're from again gregor? hk?
051982b2bce3fb66…bce3fb66…2024-06-25 09:08:18 <crtdaydreams> ah so you're not actually peered directly with stani
b4feeace051982b2…051982b2…2024-06-25 09:08:55 <crtdaydreams> I tried setting up a peering with him a couple times but yeah my nat config is throwing his packets
59a0095db4feeace…b4feeace…2024-06-25 09:09:12 <crtdaydreams> somehow i have a window to the world through jonsek but no-one else
a25d5d280000000000000000…2024-06-25 09:09:26 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034026 << Mainland of China.
29fefad90000000000000000…2024-06-25 09:10:18 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034029 << The C implementation of "jonsykkel" works very well.
28e5766529fefad9…40d8d824…2024-06-25 09:10:54 <crtdaydreams> well what's your take on the chinese internal market? surely you'd have some kind of insight as to the actual state of affairs?
dc3fdc0028e57665…28e57665…2024-06-25 09:14:26 <crtdaydreams> i didn't realise jonsek was written in C, I thought he exists as a pure expression of machine code... :P
260de5360000000000000000…2024-06-25 09:18:58 <gregorynyssa> This has resulted in a wave of cheap appliances. You can buy a good vacuum-cleaner or portable oven for 35 USD.
e1681c19260de536…f34401cc…2024-06-25 09:37:23 <jonsykkel> my pestron sux guys (altho to be expected imo since it is first iteration)
806be526e1681c19…e1681c19…2024-06-25 09:37:31 <jonsykkel> and c99 isnt rely suited for most of wat a pestron consists of
6c861156806be526…806be526…2024-06-25 09:37:51 <jonsykkel> i think ok aproch to writing batlefild pestron would be if most logics were done in cl and then u ffi into a tiny libliquishit.a that handles all cryptogiraffics and shovels black pakets from udp pipe in multi threads
dbe91b1c6c861156…6c861156…2024-06-25 09:38:05 <jonsykkel> id prefribly write lib in asebly but acording 2 logs theres problem with sokets
a146f9aadbe91b1c…334d2a12…2024-06-25 09:46:42 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-07-26 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 0 chance of portability on unixlikes w/out the c bindings, cuz the built-in structs actually vary in size & layout b/w not only irons (endianism etc) but even particular os
9be75a60a146f9aa…dbe91b1c…2024-06-25 09:38:12 <jonsykkel> maybe u have some thoughts about that ascii life form
b3a2050b9be75a60…dc3fdc00…2024-06-25 09:57:00 <crtdaydreams> well ideally you'd bypass liquidshit and pump your packets to a mystical black box in the form of ice-40 etc
cc98e89fb3a2050b…b3a2050b…2024-06-25 10:00:14 <crtdaydreams> as stani mentioned earlier, interest in building much more for the pest network in it's current state is non-existent at best
da92b87bcc98e89f…cc98e89f…2024-06-25 10:01:46 <crtdaydreams> i'm not suggesting as if I have any ideas, I'm currently trying to consign myself to an edukayshun institution because I've got nfi how to proceed
c89978d2da92b87b…da92b87b…2024-06-25 10:02:35 <crtdaydreams> I don't have any of the skills to do diddly squat and I haven't got the capacity to self motivate at this juncture
8a495fa2c89978d2…c89978d2…2024-06-25 10:03:24 <crtdaydreams> if anyone here has any better ideas than student debt and the promise of a slip of paper, I'm all ears
2df43d078a495fa2…8a495fa2…2024-06-25 10:04:10 <crtdaydreams> I stopped working for a few months at the end of august last year in a crude attempt to self-motivate
a6425c68f8274663…f8274663…2024-06-25 10:05:17 <crtdaydreams> even taking up the consideration that something is severely fucked in my neurochemistry
87bfaba5a6425c68…9be75a60…2024-06-25 10:02:26 <jonsykkel> as far as i can tel any existing slip of paper issuing instiution in world has 0 or probably negative impact on skillz
6d119edd87bfaba5…87bfaba5…2024-06-25 10:05:51 <jonsykkel> given they are systems that encourage and select for obedience, tunel vision and other monky behaviors
979d5ed5e0b2c2d6…a6425c68…2024-06-25 23:18:45 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034097 << I think I failed to convey what I'm actually asking here
48308a77979d5ed5…979d5ed5…2024-06-25 23:19:54 <crtdaydreams> Stating the obvious doesn't really constitute as an answer. What I'm asking for is alternatives
a67a1578b83f5d62…b83f5d62…2024-08-07 17:27:12 <unpx> asciilifeform: Since you showed me a book of Mesnager I must show you these presentations https://www.decifris.it/attivita/trends24
9a315027a67a1578…a67a1578…2024-08-07 17:27:39 <unpx> (aside ppl who can't format a latex slide properly)
268d802c8a3299e1…48308a77…2024-06-25 23:21:10 <crtdaydreams> to learn the content of an equiv. degree in electrical engineering and then some
607c111e268d802c…8a3299e1…2024-06-25 23:22:17 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Ah ok. I have no experience with that.
c0712e8a3b43835f…b7a5fcaa…2024-08-07 19:35:01 <signpost> https://www.twz.com/air/ukrainian-forces-fight-inside-russia-for-second-day << what is this, death by cop?
15acbb0a607c111e…268d802c…2024-06-25 23:22:28 <crtdaydreams> I just have some kind of mental barrier to actually *doing* valuable learning exercise
9d33965beb159450…3b43835f…2024-08-07 19:35:52 <asciilifeform> lulzily, per ru constitution, grounds for immediate nukefest. in theory.
1b1e2215295df701…295df701…2024-06-25 23:23:52 <crtdaydreams> generally I'd presume the process for learning anything would be the same independent of field
bfd2418a9d33965b…eb159450…2024-08-07 19:43:14 <signpost> only guess I have for why not is that russia and china have an agreement on when to take the next step.
ab33abfb1b1e2215…607c111e…2024-06-25 23:23:56 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Well, other than building a z80 based computer. Kindergarten stuff though.
d9151a8bbfd2418a…bfd2418a…2024-08-07 19:43:46 signpost has read various reports of CN loading up on commodities enough to withstand a long war.
a52b64c8ab33abfb…1b1e2215…2024-06-25 23:25:23 <crtdaydreams> Well jonsek, have you considered that maybe I really am just at the "kindergarten" level, at least if that's how you see it, then sure.
3ff5356ad9151a8b…de6a998c…2024-08-14 17:44:22 <awt_akris> Just had a call with a customer where I could clearly hear the fire alarm beeping in the background.
a376e2587bd7f906…7bd7f906…2024-06-25 23:27:24 <crtdaydreams> I'm not sure how I failed to pick up on that
e812a78b097a37ba…d9151a8b…2024-08-16 21:44:21 <signpost> ru allowing an incursion into their own territory persuades me of asciilifeform's cosmology. appears to be precisely one sovereign on earth, much theater to the contrary notwithstanding.
2d6d1662a376e258…c52001e7…2024-06-25 23:28:40 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I would suggest starting with something very simple, like getting a bread board, chip, and oscilloscope, and supplying it with power.
0f2d57e52d6d1662…a376e258…2024-06-25 23:31:00 <crtdaydreams> sure I've got all that stuff right here with the exception of an oscilloscope
541d1cc57d913e1f…097a37ba…2024-08-16 21:44:41 <asciilifeform> signpost: fungus aint precisely 'a sovereign'
e55af4ca0f2d57e5…2d6d1662…2024-06-25 23:32:40 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I guess in that case you can get some LEDs to test the output.
cd457e1b541d1cc5…541d1cc5…2024-08-16 21:44:55 <asciilifeform> it's rather like to say that cancer is 'sovereign'
e19f3fb8e55af4ca…0f2d57e5…2024-06-25 23:34:07 <crtdaydreams> I'd have to order them, I've got chips configurable from a higher level, dirty arduino, couple spi peripherals
6a0e6efae19f3fb8…e55af4ca…2024-06-25 23:35:02 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Order a bunch. I burned several figuring out resistors.
a621726ab04db9e9…b04db9e9…2024-08-16 21:45:49 <signpost> maybe better to say that russia appears to care whether the craziest and most armed bastard on earth can behave rationally
78b4bd666a0e6efa…e19f3fb8…2024-06-25 23:35:53 <crtdaydreams> is it best to have an oscilloscope as a voltage source?
a2925823a621726a…a621726a…2024-08-16 21:46:15 <signpost> I do not have a working model that explains why kiev isn't radioactive yet
fe657dbb78b4bd66…78b4bd66…2024-06-25 23:37:45 <crtdaydreams> does the capacity to learn ultimately come down to the desire?
4fbb5093a2925823…cd457e1b…2024-08-16 21:46:37 <asciilifeform> signpost: reich propaganda tries to paint current-day ru as a su continuation, but it aint, the place is actually run by folx with children at oxbridge and yaleward
bcf2bbb9fe657dbb…6a0e6efa…2024-06-25 23:39:47 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Oscilloscope comes in handy when debugging frequency related issues, among other things. For the voltage source you need a transformer if you want to use wall power.
eb58fa8eb522af43…b522af43…2024-08-16 21:48:04 asciilifeform recalls trying to explain this in '22 and even earlier in '14 at the dawn of current ukrowankage
e244bae5bdd9bc0e…fe657dbb…2024-06-25 23:50:21 <crtdaydreams> a transformer, as in just a proper variable power supply
3c2298aceb58fa8e…a2925823…2024-08-16 21:55:39 <signpost> whether gun to their head, or their kids at yale, effect is they let ukr raid into their territory.
655d742ee244bae5…e244bae5…2024-06-25 23:52:00 <crtdaydreams> well sure being held a gunpoint is a pretty good motivator, but in the case of self-motivation pointing a gun at yourself isn't going to achieve a hell of a lot. so i'd say desire
c5984555655d742e…bdd9bc0e…2024-06-26 00:05:43 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Panic can achieve a great deal
c9e27d1172310030…eb58fa8e…2024-08-16 21:56:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: long before this, 'they let' the situation even get to this point. i.e. for 8 yrs sat & watched the ukrs build up their 'mannerheim line' forts, crank up modern army, etc
b01a6685c5984555…c5984555…2024-06-26 00:06:47 <discord_bridge> (awtho) You can build your own power supply easily. Or yes you can buy one.
35f8e9b2c9e27d11…72310030…2024-08-16 21:56:42 <signpost> apologies if I didn't properly represent your view in either case.
a6f5ff44b01a6685…655d742e…2024-06-26 00:27:52 <crtdaydreams> well I guess all you're doing is really just dropping wall voltage and putting in low-current circuit protection
175fea70e121294d…c9e27d11…2024-08-16 21:56:52 <asciilifeform> it aint about what's happening this wk or the last, at all
4ab28a12175fea70…175fea70…2024-08-16 21:57:44 <asciilifeform> this week is a logical and predictable result of the ~3y of idiocy, and preceding 8y of 'peace processes' wankage
b6ec7f1d0000000000000000…2024-06-25 12:10:41 <gregorynyssa> That is, one writes an .so file with the basic functions, and then writes the routines using Tcl, connecting the two using FFI.
fef52d56b6ec7f1d…8ab5d118…2024-06-25 12:13:14 <discord_bridge> (awtho) That’s how I implemented Akris - used portions of smalpest for the .so.
7b7b00380000000000000000…2024-06-25 12:36:08 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034064 << I have not yet used Akris. Does it start two processes, one for the GUI and the other for the data-processing?
0adfcd867b7b0038…fef52d56…2024-06-25 12:37:18 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Yes. They communicate via sockets.
7b05a2910adfcd86…60f9228e…2024-06-25 16:10:56 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033451 << it aint an 'industry' in the 19-20th c. sense of the word. 100% of 'cybersekooriti' shops live on a) usg grantolade b) 'investors' aka money printer go brr. the actual technical labour is theatrical.
1b8448f77b05a291…a146f9aa…2024-06-25 16:10:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 03:38:45 gregorynyssa[billymg]: The other 95 percent or more of personnel seemed to be products of job-creation. I would be glad to hear what others in this channel think.
63dbc22f1b8448f7…7b05a291…2024-06-25 16:11:36 <asciilifeform> if you try to run such a 'biz' as if it were an actual biz, e.g. roadside sandwich shop, you will lose shirt
8aa7786e63dbc22f…63dbc22f…2024-06-25 16:12:29 <asciilifeform> nobody afaik anywhere discusses this. largely because discussing this fact moar or less disqualifies you from participating
ddb2bf338aa7786e…8aa7786e…2024-06-25 16:13:53 <asciilifeform> 'security' aint a business, naive folx who propose (or even attempt to market) actual, honest, permanent solutions to the problems this 'industry' supposedly addresses -- very quickly go broke
b8b55f13ddb2bf33…ddb2bf33…2024-06-25 16:15:09 <asciilifeform> it moar closely resembles e.g. the vendors who supplied the scaled down triremes etc. to roman emperor titus , who staged gladiatorial naval battles in flooded colosseum
04264ec9b8b55f13…b8b55f13…2024-06-25 16:16:54 <asciilifeform> i.e. the only pertinent items, in order of importance: 1) proximity to money printer 2) visual quality of theatrical props 3) -- dead last -- performance at the nominal task
d1647d620000000000000000…2024-06-25 16:58:30 <gregorynyssa> The Overton Window of modern society is highly constrained.
a6f08eb3d1647d62…04264ec9…2024-06-25 18:22:14 <asciilifeform> hmm loox like 1 line is in my logger but not bitdash one
d7ad0b10a6f08eb3…a6f08eb3…2024-06-25 18:23:38 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: i'ma give concrete example. after 'virustotal' was bought by the moneyprinter folx for $b, asciilifeform + coupla other d00dz opened a shop where baked malware analyzer on custom hardware, i.e. not detectable from the inside (vt's was trivially detectable), supported dissection of e.g. fw & gpu diddlers, etc
6d909e8ed7ad0b10…d7ad0b10…2024-06-25 18:23:58 <asciilifeform> no prizes for guessing where this went.
c5f856356d909e8e…6d909e8e…2024-06-25 18:24:45 <asciilifeform> we didn't have an 'in' into usg/tbtf circles, consequently no '$b valuations', nuffin but... the product
752d4344c5f85635…c5f85635…2024-06-25 18:24:57 <asciilifeform> which, as it happens, aint needed anywhere.
b268e17c752d4344…752d4344…2024-06-25 18:25:14 <asciilifeform> cuz it aint, in pseudoindustries, ever, at any pt, 'about the product'.
315ef07bb268e17c…b268e17c…2024-06-25 18:27:01 <asciilifeform> is ~always, w/out exception, about -- the pedigree
714c08df315ef07b…315ef07b…2024-06-25 18:28:56 <asciilifeform> didn't help that our fuhrer (naive -- but with a bit of dough -- immigrant) spent $maxint on a (lol) patent
07d13377714c08df…714c08df…2024-06-25 18:29:06 <asciilifeform> but even w/out this, result in retrospect was quite predictable imho
9d8d5a0d07d13377…07d13377…2024-06-25 18:33:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033495 << a) 'credential inflation'(tm) b) generally you can't get a ~zero-interest loan from bank simply to sit sadly in bed, but ~can~ to 'attend university'. hence over90000 'students' with not even necessarily delusions of employability, simply 'warehoused'
a7c7d1e39d8d5a0d…1b8448f7…2024-06-25 18:33:28 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 08:02:22 gregorynyssa[billymg]: Likewise, universities were not meant to function as career-schools as they do today.
9a08ae9aa7c7d1e3…9d8d5a0d…2024-06-25 18:33:35 <asciilifeform> they go in for 2nd, 3rd, nth diplomas, too
6e48f2769a08ae9a…9a08ae9a…2024-06-25 18:34:45 asciilifeform lives in a 'college town', sees this with naked eye erryday
5faf3d9b6e48f276…6e48f276…2024-06-25 18:35:10 <asciilifeform> good % of (the males, at least) are really simply paying to be somewhere where they (think) can get fuck
996eb6c35faf3d9b…5faf3d9b…2024-06-25 18:37:08 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033487 << the paper -- unless yer specifically aiming to work in usg bureaucracy -- can be 100% guaranteed to do precisely 0
d095f3b3996eb6c3…a7c7d1e3…2024-06-25 18:37:10 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 06:03:26 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: if anyone here has any better ideas than student debt and the promise of a slip of paper, I'm all ears
6f91e89dd095f3b3…996eb6c3…2024-06-25 18:37:38 <asciilifeform> (and in the bureaucracy, aint any kinda guarantee of employability, is simply ~minimal bar)
202f56736f91e89d…6f91e89d…2024-06-25 18:39:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033490 << imho if yer meat is saying to you that you're wasting yer time, it is likely right
77dc3fa9202f5673…d095f3b3…2024-06-25 18:39:32 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 06:05:18 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: even taking up the consideration that something is severely fucked in my neurochemistry
dcdd18cd77dc3fa9…202f5673…2024-06-25 18:40:19 <asciilifeform> the meat's 'sense of frustration' is equally important a function of healthy meat as sense of pain when touching a flame
a0298dcddcdd18cd…ec421a40…2024-06-25 21:28:22 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033510 << weird, i see it in my terminal as well. possibly stuck and will get shaken loose after this message
3489135ca0298dcd…77dc3fa9…2024-06-25 21:21:56 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 14:22:16 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: hmm loox like 1 line is in my logger but not bitdash one
a5574b7b0000000000000000…2024-06-26 03:43:15 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034097 << Not just the flesh but more importantly the conscience, ie. the soul.
aab249fea5574b7b…469a6302…2024-06-26 15:44:59 <billymg> awtho: i'd like to debug this, in the logs for my personal station i see the message received from asciilifeform and relayed to bitbot. checking the logs for bitbot shows no such message. bitbot is on blatta 9974 and my personal is on 99
5179b6eda5574b7b…a6f5ff44…2024-07-04 05:38:25 <crtdaydreams> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-07-01#1034197 << https://www.qualys.com/2024/07/01/cve-2024-6387/regresshion.txt
2eb4938aaab249fe…3489135c…2024-06-26 15:38:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 14:22:16 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: hmm loox like 1 line is in my logger but not bitdash one
c8e525325179b6ed…5179b6ed…2024-07-04 05:39:06 <crtdaydreams> that link was on the page under the subheading "Technical Details"
56f0a4dc53729d43…b01a6685…2024-06-26 15:48:53 <discord_bridge> (awtho) You’d have to dig into the SQLite db and trace netchain and selfchain.
a66d385d56f0a4dc…56f0a4dc…2024-06-26 15:50:06 <discord_bridge> (awtho) That said, there is a pretty bad bug in blatta in which netchain can be wrong in certain circumstances. This can cause problems when requesting missing messages. It’s fixed in Akris, but obviously that won’t help you here.
372407d9a66d385d…a66d385d…2024-06-26 16:01:29 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Could also check the bounce count.
4c50d2023ca497cb…132a42ca…2024-07-07 01:58:52 <awt_akris> Software stack for this printer I'm using is horrifying. Pure "chineseum" VC++ slop. All instructions only available via youtube.
0eb9f347372407d9…dcdd18cd…2024-06-26 16:50:23 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033542 << f. mims, then, horowitz & hill etc
89cafb9a0eb9f347…2eb4938a…2024-06-26 16:50:24 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 19:25:41 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: Well jonsek, have you considered that maybe I really am just at the "kindergarten" level, at least if that's how you see it, then sure.
c044031d9b116c03…3ca497cb…2024-07-07 02:37:17 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: lemme guess, thermal printer ?
381c3dbf89cafb9a…0eb9f347…2024-06-26 16:51:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033555 << you'll want a very basic (i.e. 0-12v) bench power supply -- importantly, with current limiting (separate knob/dial for amps). fiddybux or so for a chinesium unit
1cb534d4381c3dbf…89cafb9a…2024-06-26 16:51:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 19:50:23 crtdaydreams[jonsykkel]: a transformer, as in just a proper variable power supply
d79c98791cb534d4…381c3dbf…2024-06-26 16:53:30 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033560 << prototype used these, and at a certain point started making a clone (orig went outta print), but was all in vain
a4b50b96d79c9879…1cb534d4…2024-06-26 16:53:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 23:28:19 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034081 << By what means was this device connected to the computer? Did it use PCI Express?
6b828264afab2cec…4e0d3d4b…2024-07-07 02:40:34 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Printing t-shirts and transfers.
1d4645c1a4b50b96…d79c9879…2024-06-26 16:55:29 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033561 << found that there aint much else other than 'college towns' in usa that's imho livable (i.e. not 'drive errywhere, become hamplanet' suburban blight, but while not costing $maxint to live in; and also not dystopian 'concrete jungle' )
342816eb1d4645c1…a4b50b96…2024-06-26 16:55:31 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 23:29:42 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-06-25#1034092 << I had not realized that you chose to settle next to your college in Maryland.
d0f41ab0342816eb…1d4645c1…2024-06-26 16:56:05 <asciilifeform> so for last 2 decades sitting in various parts of the 1 happened to be planted in back in early 2000s
8eed157ed0f41ab0…d0f41ab0…2024-06-26 16:58:19 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-25#1033563 << yes. ( at certain point, su decided to unthinkingly copy reich tech , rather than invest in own r&d )
eab7ca8e8eed157e…342816eb…2024-06-26 16:58:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 23:40:24 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-02#1025717 << Has any more research been done regarding why (assuming that a mechanical or doctrinal reason existed) the USA and USSR went through a decline in engineering around the same time?
2fba0764eab7ca8e…eab7ca8e…2024-06-26 16:58:22 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-25 23:40:24 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-02#1025717 << Has any more research been done regarding why (assuming that a mechanical or doctrinal reason existed) the USA and USSR went through a decline in engineering around the same time?
09eccb53ff0686e0…2051d2e1…2024-07-14 17:09:32 <signpost> https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/PAshooterMap.jpg?itok=TKOxuHlD << lol?
469b4c3e09eccb53…09eccb53…2024-07-21 18:53:12 <signpost> looks very much like the Thiel faction of the deep state is winning.
4d4070c6983de0d5…d87aceb7…2024-06-27 17:51:17 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033389 << doesn't make sense to me to stand up another centralized turd when we have pest.
7c697ccf4d4070c6…2fba0764…2024-06-27 17:51:20 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 15:06:41 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: not knows whether signpost intends to bring any of it back
4ddb95337c697ccf…4d4070c6…2024-06-27 17:52:59 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-06-22#1033397 << I imagine those that would are currently working like hell to stack corn and harden life against ww3, as they can.
5245c90ae0cd5918…75d2b552…2024-07-21 18:54:55 <signpost> tbh whatever. we'll torch Taiwan like we did Ukraine and end up with a few more domestic fabs.
0c446b204ddb9533…7c697ccf…2024-06-27 17:53:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-06-22 15:13:41 asciilifeform[jonsykkel]: there aint 'over9000' interest in the proj. as can probably tell by the silence in the logs.
e64707735245c90a…5245c90a…2024-07-21 18:57:18 signpost marvels at the collective amnesia over trump and epstein being friends for 15yrs
8cf767a25a557a53…66303534…2024-06-27 18:46:04 <asciilifeform> ftr asciilifeform has been on a kind of meatspace sabbatical, catching up on 'sport'/body things
cfe280de8cf767a2…5a557a53…2024-06-27 18:47:17 <signpost> very important to keep the machine running.
14590f69be7509e6…be7509e6…2024-07-21 19:22:18 <asciilifeform> re epstein, iirc ~all~ of the reich's 'somebodies' were 'friends' (incl. even e.g. rms & minsky). given as he was the fresh meat procurer for that entire wot, with seemingly watertight cia krysha
9f982b07cfe280de…8cf767a2…2024-06-27 18:48:35 <asciilifeform> aint aboutta set any world records, rather ordinary weights/walk/swim/etc. to get the gears going again after yrs of 'house arrest'
168eb57c14590f69…e6470773…2024-07-21 20:26:00 <signpost> I'd guess the neoconservatives, which must be aging out by now.
faef5d649f982b07…cfe280de…2024-06-27 18:49:26 signpost had to figure out a health mystery recently, ended up being celiacs which is unsurprising given the poison in food.
236a2ba9168eb57c…168eb57c…2024-07-21 20:27:43 <signpost> there's been a lot of twatter propaganda elevating e.g. arms manufacturer startups within the tech meme-o-sphere. big image revamp of that industry compared to the cheney days.
2e89c979faef5d64…9f982b07…2024-06-27 18:49:47 <asciilifeform> iirc it was what killed naggum. so worth taking seriously
0cf33c79236a2ba9…236a2ba9…2024-07-21 20:28:36 <signpost> musk is certainly a big arms dealer himself. the psyop that we don't have maneuverable hypersonic missiles is hysterical. what the fuck are his rockets?
33e1e75e2e89c979…faef5d64…2024-06-27 18:50:03 <signpost> might've mentioned, don't recall. I figure the e.g. pesticide is slowly inoculating everyone against their food.
823bdb8033e1e75e…33e1e75e…2024-06-27 18:50:17 <signpost> yep, just dropped the shit entirely, never felt better. great excuse to eat more meat.
e04b593acec61ce9…cec61ce9…2024-07-21 20:29:38 <signpost> to my mind the empire gets to rebrand military industrial complex as "tech" if/when trump comes back in.
2980fcae823bdb80…2e89c979…2024-06-27 18:50:20 <asciilifeform> iirc signpost mentioned giving up some foods
3916b01f2980fcae…2980fcae…2024-06-27 18:52:14 asciilifeform at one pt considered experiment where milsup organophosphate detector vs. various commonplace edibles, curious what would find
8e8562e93916b01f…3916b01f…2024-06-27 18:53:28 <asciilifeform> good % of what various folx who 'and then i gave up bread' report re symptomology, imho matches 'gulf war syndrome' i.e. sublethal exposure to sarin & friends
fdd97b00a969227b…53729d43…2024-07-21 20:45:03 <billymg> https://unlimitedhangout.com/2024/07/investigative-reports/the-chain-of-custody-the-mafia-holding-the-elites-bitcoin/
a73a9a3f8e8562e9…8e8562e9…2024-06-27 18:55:13 asciilifeform spent some yrs working in that racket -- organophosphate toxicology -- detectors, antidotes, prophylactics (on the theoretical side of things)
010dd8fcfdd97b00…fdd97b00…2024-07-21 20:53:06 <billymg> the tldr of that link is basically that the deepstate now likes btc because http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-03-02#1032585
51680b00010dd8fc…0c446b20…2024-07-21 20:46:12 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-03-02 21:05:31 signpost: because another hypothesis is that BTC does a fine job murdering weaker fiats and dollarizing them. e.g. Argentina
54c197b35f366409…823bdb80…2024-06-27 18:59:01 <signpost> gregorynyssa: I've added you as a peer. let's see if addresscast is enough to obtain my IP, otherwise will supply it to you.
494cd5c351680b00…a969227b…2024-07-21 20:47:54 <signpost> billymg: yep, fine way to tax the plebs, much less risky than holding tech/war stonks.
359f278354c197b3…5f366409…2024-06-27 19:00:07 <asciilifeform> signpost: btw if you haven't yet, reverse osmosis setup is a++. (in asciilifeform's locale, tap water is near Official limit for pesticide ppm & various other liquishit)
8bce15a6494cd5c3…494cd5c3…2024-07-21 20:48:43 <signpost> they'll continue to print scrip, thus taxing everyone trapped in it and pumping the bags of those who aren't.
242912fb359f2783…54c197b3…2024-06-27 19:00:33 <signpost> I've got a berkey, but that'd probably be much better
4c9d10a98bce15a6…8bce15a6…2024-07-21 20:49:15 <signpost> we were always imagining the world where btc is the currency, rather than what supplants NVDA, TSLA, GOOG, etc
636b87e2242912fb…359f2783…2024-06-27 19:03:29 <asciilifeform> coupla hundy gets you the reqd parts. (gotta remember to change the various consumables, tho, there's 5 diff ones, + the magnesium bottle if you really hate drinking <7ph )
ed52d53c4c9d10a9…010dd8fc…2024-07-21 20:56:22 <billymg> "Dollar-backed stablecoins are arriving as “an important net purchaser of U.S. government debt,” with stablecoin issuers now the 18th largest holder of US Debt"
4d70214b636b87e2…636b87e2…2024-06-27 19:04:58 <asciilifeform> membrane is supposedly good for ~yr, but reportedly if you build the thing so the 'dirt' side is flushed with clean permeate periodically -- 5-10y
485f1174ed52d53c…ed52d53c…2024-07-21 20:56:29 <billymg> "Ryan goes on to say that “if fiat-backed dollar stablecoin issuers were a country,” that nation “would sit just outside the top 10 in countries holding Treasurys,” still less than Hong Kong but “larger than Saudi Arabia,” our former partner in the petrodollar system. "
03a502364d70214b…4d70214b…2024-06-27 19:05:36 asciilifeform bought the solenoids, controller, etc but not gotten around to writing the proggy just yet
579c2a1a485f1174…4c9d10a9…2024-07-21 20:50:16 <signpost> mhm, much better dollar sink idea than "carbon credits"
8eb0127303a50236…03a50236…2024-06-27 19:06:08 <asciilifeform> off-shelf konsoomer units afaik not exist with this pheature outta the box
dee71dd1579c2a1a…485f1174…2024-07-21 20:57:14 <billymg> that, combined with policing the on/off ramps and making users go through stable coins, is supposed to keep the usd afloat for a few more decades
2051d2e18eb01273…242912fb…2024-06-27 19:09:47 <signpost> good project for my next waypoint. we liquidated the last fort before austin real estate started going splat.
e2c04350dee71dd1…579c2a1a…2024-07-21 20:50:31 <signpost> print more dogshit, invent more fake flows to sop the excess
e07feec44cf26582…4cf26582…2024-07-02 00:06:09 <asciilifeform> '...regression of the previously patched vulnerability CVE-2006-5051, which was reported in 2006... regression was introduced in October 2020 (OpenSSH 8.5p1)'
04e29b80b7bc8e05…dee71dd1…2024-07-21 21:05:49 <billymg> yup, pretty awesome though if you're in the 0.01%
49ca8d07e07feec4…e07feec4…2024-07-02 00:06:58 <asciilifeform> glibc-only (claimed, 0 usable detail in the piece, unsurprise)
bb88549404e29b80…51680b00…2024-07-21 20:58:56 <bitbot> (asciilifeform) 2020-12-17 billymg: re: discussion of the elite and bitcoin, has it been discussed yet that perhaps the elite decided that allowing the 0.01% of the world pop capable of getting their hands on some coin (and managing to keep it) to join their ranks was not actually such a bad thing?
93f177a5bb885494…04e29b80…2024-07-21 21:09:52 <billymg> also from that article: "Upcoming regulation like Basel III will require companies with large amounts of bitcoin on the balance sheet to hold considerable amounts of dollars to offset what are still considered liabilities according to the US banking regulation."
051bd95793f177a5…93f177a5…2024-07-21 21:10:06 <billymg> "In fact, a recent bill was just vetoed by Biden at the start of June 2024 that “targeted the SEC’s Staff Accounting Bulletin 121,” which “presents guidance around how banks can handle customers’ crypto assets” and in effect prevented the re-designation of crypto assets held by banks from their current liabilit
591d360e051bd957…051bd957…2024-07-21 21:18:26 <billymg> imo a very interesting article, goes into the history and structure of VISA as the first "decentralized" corporation, which was new to me, and the expose on Endeavor as a means of colonizing latin america via "entrepreneurship" -- would recommend a read
04d79f0d591d360e…14590f69…2024-07-21 23:12:31 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033647 << asciilifeform lulld, recalling the casares d00d, then sees him in fact featured in linked piece
fde20dec04d79f0d…bb885494…2024-07-21 23:12:33 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 16:38:10 billymg: https://unlimitedhangout.com/2024/07/investigative-reports/the-chain-of-custody-the-mafia-holding-the-elites-bitcoin/
65e043a3fde20dec…04d79f0d…2024-07-21 23:13:05 <asciilifeform> luly 'elite' where there's a sumbody-else-sumwhere 'holding elite's coin' eh
e8761ba665e043a3…65e043a3…2024-07-21 23:14:03 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033659 << lizards, helps to remember, aint lizards because they profitably hodl/trade xyz asset -- but rather in reverse
cb047af1e8761ba6…fde20dec…2024-07-21 23:14:05 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 16:58:56 billymg: yup, pretty awesome though if you're in the 0.01%
7c55cc010f5dcd09…0f5dcd09…2024-07-21 23:17:52 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033642 << if musk is baking'em, they rather visibly aint the ones publicly exhibited (these -- of the barely-maneuverable-at-walking-speed i.e. during landing - variety)
88e936f77c55cc01…cb047af1…2024-07-21 23:17:55 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 16:28:41 signpost[jonsykkel]: musk is certainly a big arms dealer himself. the psyop that we don't have maneuverable hypersonic missiles is hysterical. what the fuck are his rockets?
2ec8c90d88e936f7…7c55cc01…2024-07-21 23:19:24 <asciilifeform> musk's public rocket -- revival of the space scuttle scam ('reusable', 'ecologic' etc spy sat deployment platform, to replace the sad sack of boondoggle of 1980s)
9556ca4b2ec8c90d…2ec8c90d…2024-07-21 23:20:20 <asciilifeform> ('hypersonic maneuverable' item is the 1 manauverable ~at~ hypersonic v)
32fd4f209556ca4b…9556ca4b…2024-07-21 23:21:38 <asciilifeform> these^ have the characteristic triangular shape, rather than '1930s sf' hogs
73b943cb32fd4f20…32fd4f20…2024-07-21 23:25:28 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033641 << afaik still have 'the 2 cultures', i.e. east coast dodware (lockheed, raytheon, et al) vs west coast nsaware (shiticon valley set)
a97a899873b943cb…88e936f7…2024-07-21 23:25:30 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 16:27:46 signpost[jonsykkel]: there's been a lot of twatter propaganda elevating e.g. arms manufacturer startups within the tech meme-o-sphere. big image revamp of that industry compared to the cheney days.
1e56aa59a97a8998…73b943cb…2024-07-21 23:26:14 <asciilifeform> they don't afaik directly fight over moolah (the former eats directly off congressional appropriations, the latter -- directly off printola via andresen h etc)
9a6218c81e56aa59…1e56aa59…2024-07-21 23:28:14 <asciilifeform> only 'western' set needs public agitation, twatter astroturf, legions of disposable programmers paid in 'equity', etc
6ab7ce0e9a6218c8…9a6218c8…2024-07-21 23:29:01 <asciilifeform> 'eastern' is simply funded by decree, 2-3 decades (!) in advance
503ca8196ab7ce0e…6ab7ce0e…2024-07-21 23:29:44 <asciilifeform> 'we'll be in the saddle, whether the democrats, republicans, or lesbians are in the white house' -- family phriend of asciilifeform's, when tried to convince the latter to work in 1 of said hells with him
6e49b416503ca819…503ca819…2024-07-21 23:32:54 <asciilifeform> nsaware imho 'is ascendant' presently simply from the fact that it is factually the daily locomotive of the reich, such as it is. i.e. used erryday. vs the eastern wunderwaffen, which largely 'used' as 'fleet in being' (i.e. carefully avoid being used, and when not avoided -- public circus, e.g. the orcland misadventures o
9234a6a30000000000000000…2024-07-23 16:22:31 <gregorynyssa> The ability and inclination of average middle-class couples to decide how many children they want to have likewise postdates WW2.
6bfd22009234a6a3…4bff49b9…2024-07-23 17:24:57 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-23#1033683 << 'peacewashed' repurposed orbital bomber, turned into mega-boondoggle (parts built all over usa, carted to florida crushing bridges along the way), low-orbit only vehicle costing over9000 per laugh^H^Hnch
3fc9defc6bfd2200…a97a8998…2024-07-23 17:24:59 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-23 12:11:32 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-07-21#1034259 << Could you tell us more about why the space-shuttle was a scam?
4f8e3f2a3fc9defc…6bfd2200…2024-07-23 17:25:05 <asciilifeform> plenty of lit re subj for those interested.
eba0a49a4f8e3f2a…4f8e3f2a…2024-07-23 17:27:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-23#1033685 << this reduces to the 'do they have rsa pill' q.
32a7e51ceba0a49a…3fc9defc…2024-07-23 17:27:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-23 12:15:58 gregorynyssa[billymg]: For instance, a working quantum-computer developed in secret?
f703a2455454879c…5454879c…2024-07-23 17:28:45 <asciilifeform> btc is arguably a canary in that mine, and said canary is alive & well presently
de234d89f703a245…f703a245…2024-07-23 17:30:14 <asciilifeform> subj was beaten rather gratuitously to death in the l0gz.
e81c1385de234d89…de234d89…2024-07-23 17:32:24 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-23#1033688 << iirc in '58 poll, 40+% of usa still relied on outhouse
1657bdefe81c1385…32a7e51c…2024-07-23 17:32:27 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-23 12:19:22 gregorynyssa[billymg]: Many other elements of modern life are likewise staggeringly recent.
ef2e75c61657bdef…e81c1385…2024-07-23 17:34:58 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-23#1033689 << e.g. rubbbers were issued in ww2. not the key item tho, you were prolly thinking of the other thing
eb73d46eef2e75c6…1657bdef…2024-07-23 17:35:01 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-23 12:22:38 gregorynyssa[billymg]: The ability and inclination of average middle-class couples to decide how many children they want to have likewise postdates WW2.
966da1e3eb73d46e…ef2e75c6…2024-07-23 17:38:28 <asciilifeform> (observe, folx can in principle still breed all they like, and some do, with the understanding that the spawn will go into underclass)
791c1b27966da1e3…966da1e3…2024-07-23 17:40:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-23#1033684 << ru national tank museum in moscow is, asciilifeform heard, collecting some of the moar functional 1s. perhaps go there & see'em
c57c78d3791c1b27…eb73d46e…2024-07-23 17:40:53 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-23 12:15:43 gregorynyssa[billymg]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-07-21#1034268 << Does the establishment of the East Coast have wunderwaffen which are functional?
838abc60c57c78d3…591d360e…2024-07-24 15:05:19 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033666 << any guesses as to who is actually holding the keys?
cc7de3cb838abc60…c57c78d3…2024-07-24 14:58:23 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 19:13:07 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: luly 'elite' where there's a sumbody-else-sumwhere 'holding elite's coin' eh
28cfccc1cc7de3cb…838abc60…2024-07-24 15:06:40 <billymg> maybe that's why they have segwit, so that if somebody 'steals' their coins, can reverse it and claim Rule of Law™ prevails!
5fd81a2228cfccc1…28cfccc1…2024-07-24 15:09:11 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033667 << you can be well off and not be a lizard, been that way always and likely always will be. i can't imagine a world where it's only a child-raping satanic ruling class and a packed-like-sardines slave class
4ded68ca5fd81a22…cc7de3cb…2024-07-24 15:02:14 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-07-21 19:14:05 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-07-21#1033659 << lizards, helps to remember, aint lizards because they profitably hodl/trade xyz asset -- but rather in reverse
cc5094444ded68ca…5fd81a22…2024-07-24 15:10:02 <billymg> a healthy middle class, in whatever form it takes, is necessary to legitimize the ruling class so they aren't simply dragged from their towers
524bf021cc509444…791c1b27…2024-07-24 15:50:26 <asciilifeform> billymg: asciilifeform not disagrees categorically, but notes that the lizard vs plebe pov re what constitutes 'sufficient middle class' do differ
050c670e524bf021…524bf021…2024-07-24 15:51:29 <asciilifeform> ... and the difference becomes moar visible as the overall reich economic belt tightens
75a945b2050c670e…050c670e…2024-07-24 15:52:49 asciilifeform in a wash dc suburb, and last saw a freestanding house built 10+y ago. while kommunalkas are going up by the 1000-unit tower at rate of 2-3/yr
d42772c375a945b2…75a945b2…2024-07-24 15:53:18 <asciilifeform> (communal flats, explicitly rated for 2 or 4 payers on lease, with that-many bathrooms etc)
a7621165d42772c3…d42772c3…2024-07-24 15:55:07 asciilifeform recalls american fishwraps & lit, circa '80s and prior, demonstrantively gasping in horror at ru kommunalkas & the rigours of life therein
5e3abb81a7621165…1ce4f18e…2024-07-27 04:47:47 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Sallust is a great read. Good speech by Caesar I hadn’t previously read.
4beeed825e3abb81…cc509444…2024-07-30 20:38:39 <billymg> is NVDA 2024's version of a shitcoin pump & dump to precede the bitcoin bull run?
f57461970901f6df…b7bc8e05…2024-07-30 20:35:13 <signpost> if we're in a crack-up boom everything that can be argued valuable will go to maxint
25eb4d47f5746197…f5746197…2024-07-30 20:35:50 signpost wouldn't be surprised if "mag7" poops slightly, then we end up back in zirp to finish off the weimar era
01b2d1d725eb4d47…25eb4d47…2024-07-30 20:36:24 <signpost> subj of ai, meta released a decent weapon the other day.
e31da5a501b2d1d7…01b2d1d7…2024-07-30 20:36:53 <signpost> https://github.com/facebookresearch/segment-anything-2
3b5845e819800ca0…19800ca0…2024-07-30 21:02:59 <billymg> the demo videos (and obvious potential dystopian applications) remind me of the A Scanner Darkly movie
0c065d9e2d80f2de…e31da5a5…2024-08-06 17:44:34 <signpost> still lulzier is how quickly the central bank of japan clearly just went and bought the fuck out of their own stock market
74ce52a10000000000000000…2024-08-17 17:07:30 <gregorynyssa> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-08-16#1034336 << We need to trust that Mr Putin is playing nine-dimensional chess. Behind all of this, there has to be a master-plan.
48f0a6b174ce52a1…4ab28a12…2024-08-17 18:48:14 <asciilifeform> gregorynyssa: there's a derisive joak in ru, that goes, roughly: 'ukrs won't be beaten unless first they get almost to moscow' (i.e. like germany in ww2)
cfc5a69f48f0a6b1…e121294d…2024-08-19 17:20:42 <signpost> gregorynyssa: "nine-dimensional chess" doesn't leave any room for "putin is running out of dregs of his country to flush, might start having to use real soldiers" or "xi's headed towards demographic collapse" etc
a5c2e802cfc5a69f…cfc5a69f…2024-08-19 17:21:59 <signpost> re: putin he might rightly not want a radioactive failed state on his border, doing his best to avoid it.
a2ac1082a5c2e802…2d80f2de…2024-08-19 18:40:13 <discord_bridge> (awtho) https://x.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1825569808626159880
a2028bbed06979eb…d06979eb…2024-08-19 19:19:28 <signpost> to steal from carlin, "it's a based club and you ain't in it"
6513b212a2028bbe…a2028bbe…2024-08-19 19:22:58 <signpost> "welcome trad-bros. your first act of trad-manliness shall be at the front lines in Kursk!"
03bfc3de6513b212…a2ac1082…2024-08-19 19:40:49 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Yeah draft potential was one of my first thoughts as well
986b7e8403bfc3de…48f0a6b1…2024-08-19 19:50:33 <asciilifeform> signpost: it aint as if ru were a nightmare-mode passport to get previously. simply, not many takers (there aint any handouts)
bc2569ef986b7e84…986b7e84…2024-08-19 19:51:30 <asciilifeform> afaik they haven't a draft for the equiv. of 'green card' people, tho. (but they can enlist as contractors)
68571485bc2569ef…bc2569ef…2024-08-19 19:52:19 <asciilifeform> if yer of draft age after (iirc) 5y -- can be drafted
d507a3f468571485…9a315027…2024-08-22 13:46:21 <unpx> Sometime I wonder if I shall apply here PhD on Post-Quantum Cryptography | Technische Universiteit Eindhoven
bb057b1cd507a3f4…d507a3f4…2024-08-22 13:46:24 <unpx> https://jobs.tue.nl/en/vacancy/phd-on-postquantum-cryptography-1101449.html
5dbc891fbb057b1c…68571485…2024-08-22 14:25:28 <asciilifeform> unpx: i thought you were already a phd student somewhere ?
9dea8007e330067a…e330067a…2024-08-26 19:01:18 <phf> disregard, that didn't do what i expected it to do
031798779dea8007…9dea8007…2024-08-26 19:02:11 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-08-25#1034379 << that's terrible news, my condolences to his family
1f4f2ba303179877…03179877…2024-08-26 19:07:51 <phf> bv was the first one to voice me in tmsr, so i continued having private conversations with him over years, which i very much enjoyed. my biggest regret is the fact that i've never met him in person. he was an intelligent but well adjusted guy, a rare combination. he will be missed.
f97210961f4f2ba3…a12deae6…2024-08-26 19:17:27 <asciilifeform> phf: asciilifeform met him in person 1nce, in buenos aires, we walked across good % of the city together. was a++ fella
74d21a821f4f2ba3…1989ef88…2024-11-07 19:32:59 <PeterL> and I had to bite my tongue not to say something like "feature, not bug" which would have sent them off the deep end
5be60cf1f9721096…f9721096…2024-08-26 19:17:45 <asciilifeform> always hoped to meet him again. sadly never did
b3a310b94f453168…72649d93…2024-11-07 19:41:12 <signpost> women have to be told no or they go insane quoth mp
8b7232b4b3a310b9…b3a310b9…2024-11-07 19:41:58 <signpost> this isn't a hypothetical; they literally seek walls like some kind of social topology mapping algo
d044daa28b7232b4…74d21a82…2024-11-07 19:42:21 <PeterL> and then my littlest (8yo) just about started crying because she was afraid mommy and daddy were going to get divorced. It was a great family bonding experience all around.
bf13c30daab2e2a2…4f453168…2024-11-07 19:44:20 <discord_bridge> (awtho) My own gestalt is that I should have divorced my ex way sooner. Only so much time to find a good woman.
8c6d950184ce156a…f703c17f…2024-11-07 19:54:49 <signpost> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-11-07#1034512 << if he naps while musk-thiel aligned technocrats pull levers, I'll take it.
d8bd669a8c6d9501…d044daa2…2024-11-07 19:57:16 <PeterL> awtho: did you end up finding a better one or just single now?
082c1a4ad8bd669a…84ce156a…2024-11-07 19:59:00 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Was seeing someone for about 4 years but recently broke up with her. She had a similar background to my ex which resulted in similar problems.
950e762da6975dd1…a6975dd1…2024-11-07 22:19:06 <signpost> could marry, spawn, divorce, marry, and spawn again with the time you have left :D
2d0e1206950e762d…2ad0b184…2024-11-07 23:46:02 <billymg> awt: yeah, plenty of time, my dad was 57 when i was born. he met my mom, his second wife, only a few years prior. she was about 26 years his junior, german, college educated -- and he wasn't even rich
0323a7f68ac1cf32…8ac1cf32…2024-11-07 23:50:12 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-11-07#1034526 << this. i tried to listen to the trump/rogan interview but got bored about 40 minutes in, whereas the vance/rogan one had my attention for the whole 3 hours
821f7e2f0323a7f6…0323a7f6…2024-11-07 23:52:27 <billymg> one thing that trump said though was that he made a lot mistakes in his first term because he didn't know how the system works and he surrounded himself with a lot of bad people
571b0716b1c15502…821f7e2f…2024-11-08 00:02:54 <billymg> awt: yeah, quoting some advice from a random tweet i saw like 5 or 6 years back: "short women". they reached their HR girlboss peak in recent years but now it's time for them to get back in the kitchen (where they want to be anyway, even if they don't know it yet)
368a1e32571b0716…d8bd669a…2024-11-08 14:33:44 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-11-07#1034535 << I'll be OK. Everybody will calm down, things will go back to normal. About to hit 21 years of marriage, we'll be fine.
b46fa5f9368a1e32…571b0716…2024-11-11 16:13:24 <billymg> https://x.com/100trillionUSD/status/1838624330176922033 << so far so good
689397f23325ba18…ced36801…2024-11-11 19:10:11 <asciilifeform> prolly not, per the heathens, waterfall being refilled with gox (yes) coinz atm
869f0da4758a3d73…2d618ce3…2024-11-11 19:12:37 asciilifeform regards 'who's selling' as a nonmystery, but has deeply nfi who's buying
a11f58f9869f0da4…758a3d73…2024-11-11 19:13:06 <PeterL> question is, is this actually adding a 0 to btc value, or is it just catching up with crazy inflation of past few years?
e8a10b29a11f58f9…869f0da4…2024-11-11 19:13:23 <asciilifeform> + for that matter just how much actual buying & selling taking place, vs. simply goxes posting rng #s
c5e354bee8a10b29…e8a10b29…2024-11-11 19:14:37 <asciilifeform> PeterL: depending on how measured, would need 200-300 to 'catch up to inflation' from past 4y
d0e84509c5e354be…c5e354be…2024-11-11 19:15:55 <asciilifeform> ( per asciilifeform's cosmography, will remind, ~entire purpose of the waterfall is to prevent btc exchrate from reliably outrunning usd inflation ; if it were to, would be nobrainer 'shelter' and all other usg.'assets' would be doomed in near term )
2e6ef7d9d0e84509…a11f58f9…2024-11-11 19:17:13 <PeterL> would be better shelter if didn't +/- 20% randomly even when not moving
f4fb95e02e6ef7d9…d0e84509…2024-11-11 19:18:24 <asciilifeform> all the other 'shelters' behave quite similarly ('stonks' etc) so not unique to btc, is artifact of leveraged idiocy
aa0dccadf4fb95e0…f4fb95e0…2024-11-13 01:29:58 <asciilifeform> meanwhile, in heathen chat lulz. anyone know this d00d ?
56fae5ffaa0dccad…aa0dccad…2024-11-13 01:30:51 asciilifeform finds rather interesting that 'mother fell ill' just in time for exchrate bump
00a8d6ea14b655a9…14b655a9…2024-11-13 09:00:26 <unpx> Someone told me about the Bitcoin lottery there was while BTC didn't worth anything. They used a spare account to prove your identity.
cb138d5bdf20c422…56fae5ff…2024-11-13 14:06:38 <asciilifeform> unpx: there were 'faucets', and all kindsa similar toys
ff78228fcb138d5b…cb138d5b…2024-11-13 14:07:09 <asciilifeform> can't recall anyffin resembling a lottery, but nfi. (what's a 'spare account' anyway?)
1f8a566d8705bebc…6daf05fb…2024-08-31 02:23:13 <mod6> gregorynyssa: Yeah. Horrible news. My sincerest condolences to his family and friends.
64bfb9691f8a566d…78f97d09…2024-09-03 05:07:24 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Still messing around with AI: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16tNF_pRbjWLeH55_DLTMginBPiTLXW-u/view
36b598abb2f2a9a1…6b56d0df…2024-09-07 22:48:26 <unpx> DeCifris Trends24's slide has been updated, asciilifeform, I will mirror older ones somewhere
27fd07de0000000000000000…2024-09-14 16:00:17 <phf> signpost: i remember you were into things like that, are you still using some kind of dumb phone, or back to iphone? asking because i pared down my iphone to messages and maps, so now i wonder why i even need one, but i haven't tried any feature phone since 2010 or so
669e9f9427fd07de…5be60cf1…2024-09-14 16:14:51 <asciilifeform> phf: wb! oh and if you ever find a 'dumb' pnoje that supports whitelists, plz post. because asciilifeform searched for many yrs and not found.
9ccdcedd669e9f94…669e9f94…2024-09-14 16:15:45 <asciilifeform> (all of the currently-avail. ones -- and pre-3g pnojes no longer work in most of usa -- only appear to support blacklist, but not whitelist)
2441d7e59ccdcedd…8d92ed26…2024-09-14 22:12:52 <signpost> nah, gave up. the one I got was built like shit, got creaky etc
af49364e2441d7e5…2441d7e5…2024-09-14 22:14:06 <signpost> whitelist oughta be achievable on android with some changes to the messages and phone app, but eh, vita brevis
d2bfd16baf49364e…9ccdcedd…2024-09-14 22:29:34 <asciilifeform> android aint 'dumbpnoje' tho, arguably
fab3fbf5d2bfd16b…d2bfd16b…2024-09-14 22:30:09 <asciilifeform> 'dumb' is when it runs some 1990s-style sub-MB fw from rom or somesuch, buttons instead of touch screen, etc
282dc167fab3fbf5…fab3fbf5…2024-09-14 22:31:07 <asciilifeform> e.g. asciilifeform's beloved motorola 'razor' (rip)
08aa6cb094d563da…94d563da…2024-09-14 22:33:15 signpost at least rid himself of everything with an ML recommender engine.
7e8e022508aa6cb0…ff7a4a71…2024-09-14 22:34:44 asciilifeform still scratches head re: the enigma of precisely why the existing dumbpnojes -- of which there are 2dozen+ models still made -- not 1 includes whitelist afaik
5f18b4dc7e8e0225…7e8e0225…2024-09-14 22:35:05 <asciilifeform> not even the 'reenactors' (e.g. 'punkt' et al)
a6b5876c5f18b4dc…5f18b4dc…2024-09-14 22:35:53 <asciilifeform> do telemarketers 'make offer he can't refuse' immediately whenever someone proposes to bake one with whitelist? or wat.
9191b531a6b5876c…a6b5876c…2024-09-14 22:36:27 <asciilifeform> (and note that both crapple & android trivially switchable to whitelist)
f73ce04d9191b531…08aa6cb0…2024-09-14 22:39:15 <signpost> seems like you might run into having to whitelist all the public alert bullshit from a legal perspective.
a4f482dff73ce04d…f73ce04d…2024-09-14 22:39:44 <signpost> just speculating, but I can imagine those kinds of "the beoble must receive amber alerts" regs being involed.
b72c40a82ff6eeb5…2ff6eeb5…2024-09-14 22:40:59 signpost imagines without firsthand knowledge that the modem itself is heavily regulated
f26e5bb820a7fcb3…b2f2a9a1…2024-09-18 01:03:02 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Anybody else cringe every time Harris talks about "hope and aspirations"?
f630d8f426a58873…b72c40a8…2024-09-18 01:46:45 <signpost> gonna be somehow fitting if zion blowing the balls off of a few thousand d00ds ends up being one of the ratchet clicks to ww3
ed2a5f02f630d8f4…f26e5bb8…2024-09-18 01:50:54 <discord_bridge> (awtho) I only saw her speaking during the debate. Can’t stand her voice.
e4817d58ed2a5f02…26a58873…2024-09-18 01:53:51 asciilifeform not watched the 'debate', nor any other episode of this muppet show, nor intends to, lol
56be00c1e4817d58…ed2a5f02…2024-09-18 01:57:33 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) But how could you ignore this, "the most important election ever"!? You really are not missing much, the circus will go on
5433cf8b56be00c1…f630d8f4…2024-09-18 02:00:33 <signpost> seems possible one of the candidates (for stapling to the hull of DoD/State Dept policy) doesn't even make it to nov.
a1cbf86d5433cf8b…5433cf8b…2024-09-18 02:01:10 <signpost> tbh makes me think he at least tried to be a nuisance in the machine last time, if an ineffective one.
6c9e940448d6de70…e4817d58…2024-10-01 18:14:14 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: mostly physical sport & workout. getting back slowly into programming tho...
f516b5213eda406a…3eda406a…2024-10-01 18:14:50 asciilifeform can nao do pullups for 1st time in adult life, lol
750e26cc03e18f1a…f516b521…2024-10-01 18:27:36 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: how about your adventures? anyffin interesting ?
3083430b750e26cc…03e18f1a…2024-10-01 18:30:34 <awt_akris> Also been trying to stay in shape. Most success with getting 10k steps a day and limiting calories to 2000 per day. Revenues on shirts/dtf transfers increasing. Latest lol is bad reviews for a nip shirt because the design was printed too high and didn't match the customers' actual nipple position.
b52ac8be3083430b…750e26cc…2024-10-01 18:32:19 <asciilifeform> should've insisted on measuring the nipple personally, neh
51536765b52ac8be…3083430b…2024-10-01 18:32:51 <awt_akris> lol. Trying a personalization option where they can select high/med/low.
d1c6da8a51536765…b52ac8be…2024-10-02 03:51:35 <asciilifeform> hmm http://logs.bitdash.io not seen any of today's convo
2af938cb0edd7c43…0edd7c43…2024-10-02 03:52:04 <asciilifeform> ( starting here: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-10-01#1034435 )
30b6457866294d36…66294d36…2024-10-02 14:48:23 <billymg> backfilled the missed lines and restarted blatta + bitbot
d499cef630b64578…30b64578…2024-10-02 14:49:15 <billymg> oh yeah, maybe shouldn't have backfilled since pest replays
4445dc71d499cef6…d499cef6…2024-10-02 14:52:38 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-10-02#1034452 << possibly wasn't a clean shutdown either (server in ukraine, who knows), noticed 500 errors yesterday on bitdash.io until i commented out the offending charts (don't have time to look into the bug right now)
4208b7ac4445dc71…4ded68ca…2024-10-02 14:44:29 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-10-02 10:40:26 billymg[jonsykkel]: looks like server restarted 3 days ago
c9a5d79d4208b7ac…4445dc71…2024-10-02 14:54:40 <billymg> though most likely the crawler just hit a user agent string with a character that i'm not handling properly
b86f61d91b0248bb…c9a5d79d…2024-10-02 14:56:03 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-10-02#1034455 << congrats, this is a big milestone if truly couldn't until now
6d5932eab86f61d9…4208b7ac…2024-10-02 14:47:54 <bitbot> Logged on 2024-10-02 10:40:36 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: can nao do pullups for 1st time in adult life, lol
7b2b7ae75112c00e…4ebbf7f4…2024-10-07 18:11:56 <billymg> the bitcoin chart for the last 4 years looks kind of like the gold chart for the last 9 (minus the breakout)
791008b38d5949fb…a1cbf86d…2024-10-08 22:42:49 <signpost> seems like this double-tap hurricane situation is as good a catalyst for the next phase of splat as anything.
06efb513791008b3…791008b3…2024-10-08 22:44:15 <signpost> oughta knock btc violently out of the 60s. last leg up for btc happened when a bunch of quiet printola bank bailouts occurred (SVB et al)
731c144306efb513…56be00c1…2024-10-16 00:56:41 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) https://www.csoonline.com/article/3562701/chinese-researchers-break-rsa-encryption-with-a-quantum-computer.html The SKY is FALLING!
113062f334be21c5…731c1443…2024-10-16 00:57:19 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Tldr: factored a 22 bit number
6f3cadf9113062f3…113062f3…2024-10-16 00:58:21 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) 22 bit today, 4096 tomorrow?
1a008cf26f3cadf9…6f3cadf9…2024-10-16 00:59:22 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) btw, you are either a very fast reader or you already saw this?
d6f76db7874aa1ec…874aa1ec…2024-10-16 00:59:59 <asciilifeform> dwave reminds asciilifeform of certain 18th c alchemists & their relation to their sponsors
facac7b0d6f76db7…d6f76db7…2024-10-16 01:00:40 <asciilifeform> 'gotta dump moar dough in, anyffin but throwing in the towel, realizing what gullible idjit i was'
8ad85723facac7b0…1a008cf2…2024-10-16 01:00:48 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Does it stand for "demon-wave" ?
91772bc18ad85723…8ad85723…2024-10-16 01:01:27 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) How much RSA'ing can you even do with 22 bit key?
81a3c47f91772bc1…facac7b0…2024-10-16 01:01:35 <asciilifeform> nfi, but it's a well-known scamola, black hole for $ (largely from usg & usgcorps)
e84a073981a3c47f…81a3c47f…2024-10-16 01:02:12 <asciilifeform> 22bit key factors in 1m or so on 486...
9bf764dbe84a0739…91772bc1…2024-10-16 01:02:50 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) We'll know they have cracked it when our bitcoin is gone, neh?
de8da6f79bf764db…e84a0739…2024-10-16 01:03:37 <asciilifeform> oblig see l0gz re theory of rsa pill, bombing of coventry, etc
18053539338f060c…338f060c…2024-10-16 01:04:51 <asciilifeform> a smart pill finder will prolly take home e.g. shitoshi's coinz & stop there
2fdedd5218053539…18053539…2024-10-16 01:05:34 <asciilifeform> moar than enuff gold, imho, for any alchemist
4a941eda2fdedd52…9bf764db…2024-10-16 01:05:55 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Take enough to be happy, but not enough to make it all worthless?
e3d7e93b2ad0b184…4a941eda…2024-11-06 04:10:53 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) My wife can't understand why anybody would vote for Trump, I can't understand why anybody would vote for Harris. Our votes cancel each other.
5b38fb0ae3d7e93b…e3d7e93b…2024-11-06 04:53:10 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Now she is saying "if Trump wins, I am going to have to close my business because women won't be allowed to work outside the home"
87a782479aabd93d…b84dbf9f…2024-11-07 19:06:35 <signpost> women won't be allowed to work outside the home << this is a kink.
72649d9387a78247…87a78247…2024-11-07 19:07:20 <signpost> even a respectable one if you squint, in that "life uh, finds a way"
2e67a36272649d93…f3a66040…2024-11-07 19:14:52 asciilifeform predicts it'll be precisely like the prev. reign of mr. t, but that he's older and takes moar naps...
5cc8b6292e67a362…cdc05d49…2024-11-07 19:20:05 <PeterL> yeah, that was what I said to my wife "OK, Trump won, he was in before and the sky didn't fall", and she goes on this rant about how he lies about everything and is so racist and wants all women at home making babies or something
1989ef885cc8b629…5cc8b629…2024-11-07 19:21:00 <PeterL> and then my kid jumps in and calls me a "fucking idiot" because now they won't be able to get "gender affirming care" etc.
635e7bbc0000000000000000…2024-11-13 14:46:38 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2024-11-12#1034539 << the great hunt for nazi^Wmp gold
719ccf956eced77e…b1c15502…2024-11-13 17:08:48 <discord_bridge> (shinohai) http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-11-12#1034556 <<< lol this same fellow wrote me there also, though I was told he was in dire need of funds because of an automobile accident kek.
2134203b7949a862…7949a862…2024-11-13 18:11:39 <asciilifeform> lulzy ro folx, undisputed kings of comically inept social engineering, nigeria 'nervously smokes in the corner' in comparison
bbae29dd2134203b…2134203b…2024-11-13 18:14:44 asciilifeform just got a 'hey wanna buy land in ro' spam from d00d, lol
3b1f9233bbae29dd…bbae29dd…2024-11-13 18:18:24 <asciilifeform> then 'I need 300 euro for mediation mother and me give you back this money after Christmas maybe,I need to stay with this land because is good but situation is delicate' etc
fff52e333b1f9233…3b1f9233…2024-11-13 18:21:27 <asciilifeform> defo gold medallist. reminiscent of a legendary case in usa where a small-time thief recited all 12 versions of his defense that his attourney prepared for him, in sequence
2142f412fff52e33…b46fa5f9…2024-11-14 00:29:00 <billymg> https://nypost.com/2024/11/13/business/fbi-seizes-polymarket-ceos-phone-electronics-after-betting-platform-predicts-trump-win-source/
d5f6e0d42142f412…950e762d…2024-11-15 17:43:23 <signpost> in today's inflation lulz, btcusd / average kwh price in us cities https://www.tradingview.com/x/6FQhceSy/
2339fe61d7cfb078…d7cfb078…2024-11-15 17:44:37 <signpost> a bitcoin today will buy you roughly the same amount of electricity it bought at the peak of the last bubble.
a0ad74752339fe61…2339fe61…2024-11-15 17:44:55 <signpost> which is better than less, but nothing's increasing here but the USD denominator
689717b5048347be…048347be…2024-11-15 17:44:41 <asciilifeform> effective exchrate, accounting for inflatola, is ~same as in '21
8b0ae167689717b5…2e6ef7d9…2024-11-22 20:03:16 <PeterL> Anybody here use X? I recently found out I have an account that I had not used since about 2015, now I am trying to decide if it is useful or not?
f6060c27241c3307…22becf50…2024-12-02 03:46:09 <lobbes> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2024-08-25#1033783 << I'm saddened to hear this. I only knew him through the logs and his blog, but I learned a lot from him (I still have his intro-to-V post saved and have referred to it often). rip
415b2c7a9cff6754…241c3307…2024-12-03 00:37:59 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) I dunno, it is kinda chaotic, it is hard to follow threads, and it seems hard to tell who is telling truth, who is joking, and who is straight up lying
b48f0dc2f94137e9…415b2c7a…2024-12-05 02:53:03 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Broke 100k, going up fast
56922d2a1f910f75…d6cae69e…2024-12-05 02:54:33 <discord_bridge> (petermlambert) Or still catching up with last year's inflation? Have you seen the price of sandwiches?
5bfa8c7e1f910f75…56922d2a…2024-12-05 02:55:02 <discord_bridge> (awtho) lol yeah they’re double pre covid at least
14f68c1b1f910f75…5bfa8c7e…2024-12-06 16:48:11 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Deedbot reinvented: https://x.com/meta_trav/status/1864847699285282895?s=46
be2ad4bc5e19325b…5e19325b…2024-12-05 02:56:05 <asciilifeform> today's 100 is ~= pre-covidiocy ~30-40
d13507459abc30da…be2ad4bc…2024-12-22 16:55:12 <asciilifeform> awt: had nfi you were sumwhere else. how long were you away ?
f7420e2dd1350745…9abc30da…2024-12-22 17:50:30 <discord_bridge> (awtho) Moved down fall 22. Girl didn’t like it. Came back in spring ‘23. Now I’m just here for winter and summer break while my daughter is still in high school.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain a37337449fa18eba6c335cee8cac4e50c30a0b9aa952642cb04a05cce1818f49) prior to <awt_akris> ---
c07b0cfba3733744…a3733744…2024-12-02 00:12:40 <awt_akris> In other news, Moldbug still working on Urbit.
8ef2e4a5c07b0cfb…c07b0cfb…2024-12-02 00:24:30 <awt_akris> Sad not to have a ticker in here for 100k.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 515ce3808a989126f91191db5ed6efae86deaae6c66f5fd17a2d2bb96ca213ca) prior to <discord_bridge> ---
38fed58f515ce380…515ce380…2025-02-11 03:46:57 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) When man(1) is used to search for a man-page belonging to Section 1 or Section 8, it simply locates the file of that name in /bin (and in /sbin, but I would merge the two folders), treating it as a file-bundle (that is, as a tarball) and peering inside to see whether there is a man-page. If the man-page is p
90ab42aa38fed58f…38fed58f…2025-02-11 03:46:57 <discord_bridge> resent then it is extracted and displayed.
95e1391e90ab42aa…90ab42aa…2025-02-11 03:47:17 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) If the man-page is present then it is extracted and displayed.
f02d25ea95e1391e…95e1391e…2025-02-11 03:47:33 <discord_bridge> (gregorynyssa) hapax: https://dpaste.org/tfeMo
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 832daa9412058d9b600071df9b4d78e2b77aa47f21b602c11764b00a17047a54) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
63961e0c832daa94…8fe0fbae…2025-09-28 23:56:56 <asciilifeform> afaik there's been no 'the left'(tm) worth mentioning in the reich since, idk, 1968. what there is instead: the lizards & their 'manchurian candidates'
15991fc963961e0c…63961e0c…2025-09-28 23:58:08 <asciilifeform> (typically includes both shooter and sacrificial lamb, e.g. that CK type who asciilifeform never heard of until kaput and river of crocodile tears from seemingly erry avail mouthpiece)
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 54de977205c544b6274f7514cefeb0affd4441b1214ec9b2eebfe55abac1f2be) prior to <awt_akris> ---
d79a01fc54de9772…af9ed097…2025-09-29 00:04:21 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: CK was flying under the radar - seems to have been very influential in getting trump elected and pushing various non-retard policies. My daughter knew who he was and she's 14. I thought he was just another podcaster debate me bro.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 65ddc78d70939b35ab01cb5e03b0f6c3ac1a250bb466a47665ac72e3e4c1824e) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
f650533665ddc78d…15991fc9…2025-09-29 00:05:44 <asciilifeform> awt: nfi, simply noting that not heard of subj prior to when he was plugged
f4d021bb65ddc78d…d79a01fc…2025-09-29 00:05:58 <awt_akris> Idk about no left - judiciary, universities, corps, all leftist.
0434c38bf4d021bb…f6505336…2025-09-29 00:06:22 <asciilifeform> billymg: ~were~ they 'given alternative' tho? or simply thrown a bone?
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 86156cf045de5b0f392e2be2970c1dea7c5aa15eb132666d2b8e48c1705f2f61) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
eea3b9b786156cf0…0434c38b…2025-09-29 00:07:17 <asciilifeform> awt: they're reichist, rather than 'leftist'. (what's 'leftist' about e.g. sending $maxint to ukronazis, for instance?)
dcc198c3f959a8cd…eea3b9b7…2025-09-29 00:09:29 <asciilifeform> for example -- 20th c. leftists would've been very puzzled re e.g. the ongoing effort to bankrupt reich's welfare coffers by letting in 'all of mexico'
6bb960b086156cf0…e1dad048…2025-09-29 00:11:38 <awt_akris> ukraine is weird - end result is leftist though - more dead white christians
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 1b8e7129dbba6a0560764c6089556162cf9f878d8e3127952ba907a847388f07) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
142102901b8e7129…dcc198c3…2025-09-29 00:14:03 <asciilifeform> simply imho the 20th c 'polit compass' is not useful currently, is behaving as rng rather than compass.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 8df19bd0388b02035bdc11d7ac52e63dc37a45f848c22a95707ec23347b68f0f) prior to <asciilifeform> ---
6333e4848df19bd0…14210290…2025-09-29 00:16:50 <asciilifeform> dekulakization -- yes, but expanding nato, reich war machine, fattening lockheed et al & swarm of oligarchs? also 'leftist' ?
e5fd495b6333e484…6333e484…2025-09-29 00:18:17 <asciilifeform> seems as if 'left' & 'right' in reich largely agree re 'state above individual', in its various manifestations
7da9e726e5fd495b…e5fd495b…2025-09-29 00:19:06 <asciilifeform> the only disagreement seems to be -- occasionally -- re which 'enemies of the people' they'd like to use the police state apparatus against
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e1970b86054865eb…7da9e726…2025-09-29 00:20:39 <asciilifeform> billymg: not disputing the description of what's currently going on in reich, but rather the usefulness of 'compass' familiar from 20th c
2fb6c95ae1970b86…e1970b86…2025-09-29 00:21:34 <asciilifeform> the trans-xyzs imho not have much to do with the folx who got MG'd by pinkertons for demanding 8hr work day etc
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09c098894b0995a6…2fb6c95a…2025-09-29 00:23:34 <asciilifeform> both, tho the bait & the reality of the mousetrap oughta be treated separately
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7f694f46a0e437bf…6bb960b0…2025-09-29 00:32:08 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: indeed what made the 3rd reich "right wing"?
e9177c457f694f46…09c09889…2025-09-29 00:55:01 <asciilifeform> awt: 'blood & soil'(tm)(r) wankage, emphasis (variably performative) on tradition, religion, pedigree, etc. neh
08901d26e9177c45…e9177c45…2025-09-29 00:56:01 <asciilifeform> (in reality n-1st reich was a veeery mixed bag, so actually easy to retro-pain 'left' or 'right' depending on the commenter's inclinations.)
ce3c5391bd0eb5ef…bd0eb5ef…2025-09-29 00:57:56 <asciilifeform> for that matter, post-ww2 part of stalin's reign was in various aspects an anglo 'rightist''s wet dream -- small biz permitted, phamblyvalues, abortion verboten, even sex-separated schools, penmanship wankage, 19th c epaulettes reintroduced, could continue, volumes of examples
2100da66ce3c5391…7f694f46…2025-09-29 00:59:38 <awt_akris> Seems like then really there hasn't been any "right wing" since the end of WWII. Or possibly WWI.
f349e9862100da66…ce3c5391…2025-09-29 00:59:52 <asciilifeform> the seekrit thing is, the totalitarians won ~everywhere~ -- from physical, rather than political, causes
be18a315f349e986…f349e986…2025-09-29 01:00:44 <asciilifeform> until sumbody comes up with 'tesla's death ray' or sumsuch similar means for a small town to win against billion-slave thrall economy & its wunderwaffen -- will continue
4892efa7be18a315…be18a315…2025-09-29 01:01:51 <asciilifeform> awt: e.g. thailand, or brunei, or saud, arguably qualify. they simply aint world powers
0a099ecb4892efa7…4892efa7…2025-09-29 01:02:27 <asciilifeform> 'world power' seems to require dekulakizing millions , enthralling'em to the great inca, so as to build rockets/nukes/etc hardware
99f712d50a099ecb…0a099ecb…2025-09-29 01:03:16 <asciilifeform> nobody seems to get raging hardon for e.g. nepal tho, even while as 'right' as one'd like afaik
07ab531599f712d5…99f712d5…2025-09-29 01:03:29 <asciilifeform> tradition -- respected there! xyz -- 'know their place', again afaik, etc
f582c31607ab5315…07ab5315…2025-09-29 01:03:54 <asciilifeform> not sure what is their tax rate, but doubt is higher than anglotardreich
dc858171788960a0…788960a0…2025-09-29 01:04:19 <asciilifeform> hard to get > rw than the confucian bots neh
a4acab4fdc858171…dc858171…2025-09-29 01:04:52 <asciilifeform> in so far as the compass arrows have any kinda philosophical meaning at all
11826389a4acab4f…a4acab4f…2025-09-29 01:05:09 <asciilifeform> (rather than 'people i like!'/not symbol)
be9c47eb11826389…00e06767…2025-09-29 01:12:59 <awt_akris> There is a divide on the current "right" between the "wholesome chungus marry fat wife and raise 7 kids" crowd and the "aristocratic" right.
00677db226dd6fa1…26dd6fa1…2025-09-29 01:14:41 <asciilifeform> where, for instance, ought the 'wholesome fat wife' to get the dough to put the 7 through 100k$/y private school? (or are they to attend plebe school, to be impregnated/shivved/etc there ? )
86b011b900677db2…00677db2…2025-09-29 01:15:11 <asciilifeform> there aint a 1952 phactory worker 'makin' enuff to feed 8' for each of these to marry
9423febf86b011b9…86b011b9…2025-09-29 01:16:50 <asciilifeform> or take the 'aristos' (i'ma assume we mean mr. mold et al?) -- where's the certainty that the god emperor they'd like to see enthroned will grant'em all titles ?
128e2f5d9423febf…9423febf…2025-09-29 01:19:01 <asciilifeform> both flavours distinctly, imho, cargo cult.
a3930026128e2f5d…128e2f5d…2025-09-29 01:19:43 <asciilifeform> quite literally. 'we'll put on these costumes and wave these here flags and douglases fulla delish cargo will surely land'
8bca724584df1cec…84df1cec…2025-09-29 01:21:57 asciilifeform recently got chinese pcb's fabbed, for <$100 for a bag of a+++ au-plated etc. protos, and nao with new taxes it'd be ~500. still <1/2 of what it'd cost to 'made in usa', which remains a lul:
a3d00fa88bca7245…8bca7245…2025-09-29 01:22:20 <asciilifeform> ... usa suppliers aint even interested in small protos for 'human'. aint worth their time, for the most part.
eec6208ea3d00fa8…a3d00fa8…2025-09-29 01:22:57 asciilifeform did 'usa' prev, to see what was like, in '17 was already month+ of phone tag just to get actual conveyor motion, the only thing that worked pronto is them charging asciilifeform's cc
68ac27fbeec6208e…eec6208e…2025-09-29 01:23:24 <asciilifeform> chinesium -- fully automated, www form, upload shits, 3d later -- mailed
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0fa2a74a88ac6438…23267e14…2025-09-29 01:27:12 <asciilifeform> billymg: the rub is, the 'people you like', also often find equally willing to kill you, not tomorrow but day after, so to speak
d2b2b97f0fa2a74a…0fa2a74a…2025-09-29 01:27:49 <asciilifeform> and for some other pretext. but when yer dead yer just as dead
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0618a9d9c0f3f34b…d2b2b97f…2025-09-29 01:28:38 <asciilifeform> the fundamental enemy is the megastate, rather than a particular batch of (largely -- scripted) loonies, is the thing
fbe182c50618a9d9…0618a9d9…2025-09-29 01:29:29 asciilifeform recalls when 'trans' existed in onesie-twosies and even soviet press discussed'em as scientific curiosities, 'marvels of american tech'
7d2e8f8bfbe182c5…fbe182c5…2025-09-29 01:29:50 <asciilifeform> just about erry su dweller was convinced that 'trans' could birth children, for inst.
25c022e17d2e8f8b…7d2e8f8b…2025-09-29 01:30:56 <asciilifeform> nobody saw one, even on tv, is the thing
e28e1f1c25c022e1…25c022e1…2025-09-29 01:34:35 asciilifeform still suspects that today's reich 'trans' is simply a rebadging of the ru 'skoptsy' heresy -- folx snipped own balls (and of initiates, sometimes under false pretexts) to get rid of sex drive
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94b765375b1fe87d…e28e1f1c…2025-09-29 01:36:39 <asciilifeform> billymg: picture yerself as reich emperor (soros if you like). what'll ya do with $maxint d00ds who no longer have any prospect of getting laid ? wait for revolt? so they're snipping'em
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651eadce6fe6ed55…94b76537…2025-09-29 01:37:46 <asciilifeform> billymg: observe that 'advances in automation' did not help iran, they had no working air cover for the centrifuges, it'd appear
976df412f1e87c6f…f1e87c6f…2025-09-29 01:38:37 <asciilifeform> make 1e4 modern jets, aa batts, etc. or no sovereignty, is the thing
082c6984976df412…976df412…2025-09-29 01:39:13 <asciilifeform> + proper intel, research apparatus (homegrown, not on lease from reich), etc
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1f9f9cce5af543a0…082c6984…2025-09-29 01:39:51 <asciilifeform> billymg: crosshairs are on 'people who expect nice things' and hence political risk
470832bc1f9f9cce…1f9f9cce…2025-09-29 01:40:16 <asciilifeform> coolies who 'just want crust of bread' are a++ per emperor.
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22c81a1f6491315b…ef8bb0b7…2025-09-29 01:42:01 <asciilifeform> mountbatten afaik was quite comfy in india. for him -- 'not shit', eh
dab11dd83c5e65e2…6491315b…2025-09-29 01:56:46 <billymg> asciilifeform: do you believe in the two competing factions of elites theory?
0f7c6a04dab11dd8…3c5e65e2…2025-09-29 01:42:35 <asciilifeform> billymg: why 2 ? ( which 2 do you suppose they are ? )
72385cbe6119bc23…e3455498…2025-09-29 01:58:09 <billymg> do you see that as an accurate model or is there only one and any perceived palace conflict is pure theater for masses?
521c7e4372385cbe…6119bc23…2025-09-29 01:43:49 <asciilifeform> erry shithole locale has own elite which would like to convert to feodal titular nobility, say
b7c686f0f467bd6d…521c7e43…2025-09-29 01:44:15 <asciilifeform> billymg: the 'conflicts' you see if you turn on a reichvision set -- theater
80413f00edb759cf…edb759cf…2025-09-29 01:46:17 <asciilifeform> for inst., the 'give lockheed et al $1t to do 'star wars'(tm) again' naturally in conflict with 'give $1t to ukrs to deposit in zurich and snort coke for 10k yrs' -- surely in conflict
eb5b736480413f00…80413f00…2025-09-29 01:47:07 <asciilifeform> whether or not they know they're in conflict
f7454375eb5b7364…eb5b7364…2025-09-29 01:48:14 <asciilifeform> thing is, people who are exquisitely broken in the head, tend to believe in 'erryone gets what they want', 'lion lies with lamb'
52f090d5f7454375…f7454375…2025-09-29 01:48:33 <asciilifeform> e.g. 'infinite immigration' somehow together with 'welfare state'
ac05812352f090d5…4bc176c3…2025-09-29 02:03:34 <billymg> i'm wondering about the coolies vs. "people who expect nice things" sides of the $maxint surplus meat problem
4d02e4ce7ba1306d…ac058123…2025-09-29 02:04:44 <billymg> so let's say there are two, for simplicity, sets of elite. one says "forget about the coolies, let's first take out those that expect to live one family to a house"
33f851164d02e4ce…4d02e4ce…2025-09-29 02:05:35 <billymg> the competing faction says: "hey young man, would you like to take out some coolies for us, you'll get to keep most of the spoils"
c6b0cdad33f85116…14111234…2025-10-15 16:58:54 <PeterL> https://www.wired.com/story/feds-seize-record-breaking-15-billion-in-bitcoin-from-alleged-scam-empire/ << US gov refilling coffers
64feeda6e438c3f4…e438c3f4…2025-09-29 01:51:33 <asciilifeform> what spoils brought back from e.g. afgan ?
c0900fcbc6b0cdad…6241eac5…2025-10-15 17:20:47 <asciilifeform> 'tracked down by US law enforcement, which then somehow took the funds' << lel
be50ce0364feeda6…33f85116…2025-09-29 02:06:30 <billymg> idk, terraform africa and south america. the same way settlers without much else going for them in old europe came to america
65cfd9f6be50ce03…64feeda6…2025-09-29 01:52:05 <asciilifeform> fella comes back, takes off his uniform, gets a 'gs' jerb, pushing paper. who paves his street ?
aa94b2b28d695e52…be50ce03…2025-09-29 02:07:07 <billymg> why come back? he stays in south america and breeds the natives
13b8cd3d1bf2aff0…8d695e52…2025-09-29 01:53:00 <asciilifeform> spain did this in south a. nao shining example of advanced civ there ?
efec181613b8cd3d…1bf2aff0…2025-09-29 02:07:38 <billymg> can bring white peasant wife from the US too if he likes
96326548a37f6421…a37f6421…2025-09-29 01:53:19 <asciilifeform> didn't seem to work for producing civ-capable folx, did it
9005ae0bc7bfdd71…e1875bb4…2025-09-29 02:09:31 <billymg> i'm not familiar with the indians in argentina reference
4c4a50df9005ae0b…c7bfdd71…2025-09-29 01:55:15 <asciilifeform> problem: dead folx can't work (so you need new coolies -- or what, the white masters to work in the mines themselves? )
2fc8cfa20c513424…e05a58e1…2025-09-29 02:10:20 <billymg> that seems to be what the chinese are currently doing in africa
b09b00b92fc8cfa2…0c513424…2025-09-29 01:56:05 <asciilifeform> billymg: 1 diff: they're doing it on very compact scale
93dc96e5653db235…653db235…2025-09-29 01:56:26 <asciilifeform> rather than trying to occupy the continent & build latifundia etc
c33dca1893dc96e5…93dc96e5…2025-09-29 01:57:16 asciilifeform also heard various things re the effort not always being +ev for the chinese
c1c5f682c33dca18…c33dca18…2025-09-29 01:57:38 <asciilifeform> very difficult to get the locals to e.g. maintain so much as a truck in working order, even at gunpoint
58e7ed8bcf8bddea…c1c5f682…2025-09-29 01:58:47 <asciilifeform> slaves, as it happens, are actually quite expensive in 'total cost of operation', when you include the fella with the rifle, the slowrolling, untrainability, etc.
77bff93858e7ed8b…58e7ed8b…2025-09-29 01:59:05 <asciilifeform> there's a reason wai the white man deprecated'em in 19th c in favour of 'wage slave'
ab67a20977bff938…77bff938…2025-09-29 02:00:08 <asciilifeform> the latter -- cheaper, moar capable of complex work, and even compete for the chance to serve, train self at own expense, etc
65dd57a0ab67a209…cf8bddea…2025-09-29 02:15:31 <billymg> and yet we're now at a point in the west where not even 'opportunity' to wage slave
85ede45e65dd57a0…ab67a209…2025-09-29 02:01:28 <asciilifeform> because (cribbing here from mp!) 'they're africans, whatever colour they are'
8c76266485ede45e…65dd57a0…2025-09-29 02:17:19 <billymg> so the elite have a problem on their hands then. too many disaffected/disenfranchised young white males
2fd58ffd8c762664…85ede45e…2025-09-29 02:03:37 <asciilifeform> this'd be where the various zombification programmes come in, neh.
c5e677ad2fd58ffd…8c762664…2025-09-29 02:18:29 <billymg> algo A, currently implemented, is anarcho-tyranny where orcs and looney troonz serve as the weapons
20e232f9c80b1b15…2fd58ffd…2025-09-29 02:04:29 <asciilifeform> cheap dope, estrogen shots, reddit, etc
ade8251520e232f9…20e232f9…2025-09-29 02:04:49 <asciilifeform> and nobody's holding'em down and forcing, eh, they're queuing up willingly
525351a3c2b60fa7…927a21f3…2025-09-29 02:05:21 <asciilifeform> for that matter, opium per se, iirc, is back
76625791525351a3…c2b60fa7…2025-09-29 02:20:01 <billymg> but those that e.g. followed what charlie kirk was pushing are going to the gym, going to church, studying, etc.
802b373976625791…76625791…2025-09-29 02:20:38 <billymg> a virtuous elite could figure out a way to wield that group
e4156748802b3739…525351a3…2025-09-29 02:07:12 <asciilifeform> very easy to gym, church, etc. when the gravy train rolls. what when their god abandons'em (e.g. 'pink slip') ?
02afeffd47bb2923…47bb2923…2025-09-29 02:07:37 <asciilifeform> that whole subculture imho quite 'marie antoinette'
05ef566a02afeffd…02afeffd…2025-09-29 02:08:03 asciilifeform lulz at 'youtube influencers' preaching 'value of hard wurk!!111' etc
8b18b64f05ef566a…05ef566a…2025-09-29 02:10:07 asciilifeform not aware of anyffin resembling 'virtuous elite' in reich, only of grifters pushing variants of 'become virtuous elite(tm) in 21 days!'
4e2cf8bc05ef566a…802b3739…2025-09-29 02:23:37 <billymg> well apparently not "very easy" if the rest are just queuing up for reddit and fent
d80964ae8b18b64f…4e2cf8bc…2025-09-29 02:25:57 <billymg> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035073 << in your eyes who are they?
bd8a8699d80964ae…d80964ae…2025-09-29 02:26:26 <billymg> what i'm trying to get at is i believe there is a less-evil-than-soros faction
cf72e202bd8a8699…bd8a8699…2025-09-29 02:26:54 <billymg> so perhaps can't call that "virtuous" but still.. less evil than soros
442ffdaecf72e202…8b18b64f…2025-09-29 02:12:41 <asciilifeform> in '80s su there was an underground hit song, 'chained with one chain'
cb237dbe442ffdae…442ffdae…2025-09-29 02:13:11 <asciilifeform> about how various folx, not necessarily evil, but find that they are forced to work evil
129b353a5426062b…5426062b…2025-09-29 02:14:01 <asciilifeform> may disagree on various, but ultimately go where chain goes.
93903fbe38d96995…38d96995…2025-09-29 02:29:38 <billymg> you said >1 faction. are they all equally evil or some more evil than others?
3995b8bc93903fbe…129b353a…2025-09-29 02:16:52 <asciilifeform> >1 faction, but all fundamentally agree on most things, e.g. the 'printing press', quarrel only re who gets what % of the moolah train
c67f5adb3995b8bc…3995b8bc…2025-09-29 02:18:26 <asciilifeform> there's not a 'let's not print' faction, it's structurally suicidal from elite pov
42582c42c67f5adb…c67f5adb…2025-09-29 02:19:02 <asciilifeform> (i.e. actual, serious 'not print' would result in rm -rf ~all~ of the current elite factions )
d13c168642582c42…42582c42…2025-09-29 02:21:02 <asciilifeform> ditto e.g. 'close nato' -- not at any serious risk of happening, it can only be 'closed' if simply rebranded into sumthing else, else lizard reich comes apart overnight like su
b734c5fcd13c1686…93903fbe…2025-09-29 02:35:41 <billymg> so people wise to that game can now hold btc, and one faction, "the left", is openly hostile to btc holders, the other, "maga", is leaving it alone
17ef875c56be4f07…4ca1ba55…2025-09-29 02:22:52 <asciilifeform> the gruppenfuhrer who gasses 5000 jewz / mo. vs the 1 who stops at only 1000, neither will be invited to 'yad vashem' in israel, eh
98fe240017ef875c…17ef875c…2025-09-29 02:23:32 <asciilifeform> 'maga' has not e.g. removed taxation of btc, nor unplugged the 'fire extinguisher', afaik
5908b30e98fe2400…98fe2400…2025-09-29 02:23:46 <asciilifeform> price (adj for the real usd inflation) has been stagnant 4evah
0bf93b7a5908b30e…5908b30e…2025-09-29 02:24:09 <asciilifeform> ( i.e. the 2022 65k was considerably > today's 100+ in puch. power )
c6d96f157e6886ce…56be4f07…2025-09-29 02:39:28 <billymg> does this mean that this is what maga wants, or signs of a power struggle and indication that maga is not yet in complete control?
25d4545ec6d96f15…7e6886ce…2025-09-29 02:25:00 <asciilifeform> but this is how the usa muppet theatre worx, yes, 'pick $party, they only rape you 80% as hard as the other 1'
68ff21af25d4545e…25d4545e…2025-09-29 02:26:13 <asciilifeform> billymg: it isn't entirely impossible to distinguish 'not in control' from 'lolnope, never even wanted'
f328a54068ff21af…c6d96f15…2025-09-29 02:40:49 <billymg> same re: antifa beating up normies in the streets. signs that this is what maga wants, or that maga is not yet in full control?
285ce289c3b6ca30…68ff21af…2025-09-29 02:28:04 <asciilifeform> so, for instance, theoretically trump could decree 'irs budget for collecting tax on btc sales is now $0', 'blanket pardon a la biden on anyone accused of not paying btc tax', etc
ea1c8cdbc3b6ca30…c3b6ca30…2025-09-29 02:42:37 <billymg> asciilifeform: what do you think is more likely then? to me it seems like trump is making a much better go of it this time around but still hasn't fully taken power
b6e43d4bea1c8cdb…285ce289…2025-09-29 02:28:12 <asciilifeform> no statutory bar to this afaik (ianal tho)
254ce8d8b6e43d4b…b6e43d4b…2025-09-29 02:28:36 <asciilifeform> he could do it nao. but asciilifeform aint holding breath
952c9f0a254ce8d8…ea1c8cdb…2025-09-29 02:44:03 <billymg> if the fire extinguisher is turned off and btc is allowed to 'melt up' then 20% reich tax wouldn't be bad at all
55ebc60d952c9f0a…254ce8d8…2025-09-29 02:29:36 <asciilifeform> potus still has, at least on paper, various powers -- for instance, to release any and all seekrit docs
03f7d0d555ebc60d…55ebc60d…2025-09-29 02:29:54 <asciilifeform> (all 'classify' in us is, on paper, within presidential decree strictly)
96ce63d103f7d0d5…952c9f0a…2025-09-29 02:44:43 <billymg> ^ that's the crux of it, 'on paper' is apparently not the same as actual power
163dddc496ce63d1…03f7d0d5…2025-09-29 02:30:26 <asciilifeform> billymg: re btc, was merely giving example of 'what's convince asciilifeform that maga(tm)(r)(c) has come' )
ebaf5380163dddc4…96ce63d1…2025-09-29 02:45:06 <billymg> see e.g. deportations and all the roadblocks thrown up by random judges
abda9d12ebaf5380…ebaf5380…2025-09-29 02:45:26 <billymg> the left still controls most institutional power
2ecebb9fabda9d12…abda9d12…2025-09-29 02:45:38 <billymg> and so trump's 'paper power' is less effective
90a543c02ecebb9f…163dddc4…2025-09-29 02:31:24 <asciilifeform> billymg: wouldja even know re the deportees wankage if reich media did not amp it ?
c078179390a543c0…2ecebb9f…2025-09-29 02:45:59 billymg believes he's aware of this though and working on it
7afdab77c0781793…90a543c0…2025-09-29 02:31:33 <asciilifeform> could see any of it by looking out the window ?
69c3dffd7afdab77…7afdab77…2025-09-29 02:32:37 <asciilifeform> dun matter how many mexes mr. t deports, or how few, white man will still not be offered 100k$ and 'picket fence house family' to lay asphalt, nao or 10y from nao
7b5cdf3b69c3dffd…c0781793…2025-09-29 02:48:04 <billymg> idk, would have to ask awt or signpost how things look in their locales
a865f8287b5cdf3b…69c3dffd…2025-09-29 02:33:35 <asciilifeform> it's a distraction, in the usual style, like nixon's poodle ('taken as a bribe', also filled tv screens )
41e3fac2a865f828…a865f828…2025-09-29 02:36:35 <asciilifeform> re 'does trump have power' -- the 'good king, evil barons' discourse is as old as recorded history afaik
0846ee2e41e3fac2…41e3fac2…2025-09-29 02:37:15 <asciilifeform> 'he'd like to but they won't let' is the meme, today just like was in ru during reign of nik ii
74425e1f4faa31cd…4faa31cd…2025-09-29 02:52:51 <billymg> and bullet that whizzed by his ear also part of the show
8bfb968c74425e1f…0846ee2e…2025-09-29 02:38:31 <asciilifeform> nfi, iirc there was a popular version that it was
fba4ce9ca736d87b…74425e1f…2025-09-29 02:53:37 <billymg> what, in asciilifeform's view, would be evidence of "real conflict"?
10c0ba12413d5dfe…413d5dfe…2025-09-29 02:39:23 <asciilifeform> say, tanks firing at parliament, a la moscow in '93
22200c868c1fac2e…8c1fac2e…2025-09-29 02:40:17 <asciilifeform> blanket pardon for whoever plugs an 'enemy of the people'(tm) (fill in the blank as preferred)
126ec17a22200c86…22200c86…2025-09-29 02:40:33 <asciilifeform> could continue, but imho sketched general idea
4105bd29194f0559…126ec17a…2025-09-29 02:41:01 <asciilifeform> these are the kinds of rattles of empires actually dying (and new thing being born)
17dfaf4803acbcd0…194f0559…2025-09-29 02:57:12 <billymg> sure, at this point it's just down to one's intuition as to whether or not these types of events are approaching
df57d96d17dfaf48…03acbcd0…2025-09-29 02:43:16 <asciilifeform> not on the list, eg.. decrees re which toilets hermaphrodites may shit in. or some pickpocket from guatemala being deported (or not). etc
7ee2c420df57d96d…17dfaf48…2025-09-29 02:59:19 <billymg> imo those are provocations in the lead up to real conflict
63e4cfe37ed3d4cc…7ed3d4cc…2025-09-29 17:26:18 <jonsykkel> 1. did u consider this kinda algo http://zzz.st/up/wVl3rn2q/ (no idea how to do the weird ada aray indexing)
4146de5c63e4cfe3…63e4cfe3…2025-09-29 17:26:21 <jonsykkel> 2. FZ_ShiftRight_O_I with count=0 relys on Shift_Left(x, bitness) shifting all bits out of existence, which raises folowing sub-questions:
5c62fd534146de5c…4146de5c…2025-09-29 17:26:24 <jonsykkel> 2a. dose ada standard guarante this? im couldnt find anything about it in pdf
701f87f15c62fd53…5c62fd53…2025-09-29 17:26:27 <jonsykkel> 2b. x86 masks the shift count so "shl rax, 64" dosnt do anything, so it must compile to som sort of conditional or weird thing. i chekd asebly output from my gnat, it semed to produce not a jump but cmp 0x40 then cmov
c5644803701f87f1…701f87f1…2025-09-29 17:26:31 <jonsykkel> 3. new w_borow function sems to result in somwat slower code, using all compilers i had lying around. duno how to explain that but intresting. the mod exp from ch7 http://zzz.st/up/bcOOg3it/
3510d243c5644803…c5644803…2025-09-29 17:47:12 <jonsykkel> i supose my algo creates difrent memory aces patern based on sekrit shift count
f57de5f71c73e6a4…1c73e6a4…2025-09-29 18:52:32 <asciilifeform> re w_borrow & shift -- these arguably belong asm'ified (as later bvt did) in practice
413a0018f57de5f7…f57de5f7…2025-09-29 18:54:20 <asciilifeform> the ada version is 'canonical' tho, and if jonsykkel (or anyone else) finds bug (incl. branches/accesses on seekrit bitz) in it, asciilifeform would much like to hear about it
117be1de413a0018…413a0018…2025-09-29 18:54:37 <asciilifeform> speedups of const factor in the ada not nearly so much of a concern tho
0eff0dbb117be1de…117be1de…2025-09-29 18:55:15 <asciilifeform> (speed-sensitive applications oughta use asmified word arithmetic & carries)
210114de0eff0dbb…73decc12…2025-09-29 18:48:41 <jonsykkel> naturaly. question 2b re shift was about constanttimeness of generated code tho
fd65306f210114de…0eff0dbb…2025-09-29 19:07:39 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: would concern the variant where HaveBarrelShifter enabled. empirically did not detect (with random inputs) any correlation, but perhaps worth measuring moar precisely (if yer right re cmov)
0d31c5b0fd65306f…fd65306f…2025-09-29 19:08:41 asciilifeform suspects that cmov does not give cycle count variance on x86/64, but may give variance in amperage, depending on whether a write occurs, whether cache invalidated, etc
89885fcc0d31c5b0…0d31c5b0…2025-09-29 19:10:04 <asciilifeform> would be interesting to search for other verboten conditionals in the compiled bins
d9c9c9e789885fcc…89885fcc…2025-09-29 19:10:22 <asciilifeform> (perhaps there's a clever automated tool for this? if not, oughta be)
d3cedd55d9c9c9e7…d9c9c9e7…2025-09-29 19:11:10 asciilifeform was in fact planning to audit bins before production use, but 'war ended' befoar this could happen
f80bac31d3cedd55…210114de…2025-09-29 18:59:55 <jonsykkel> suspects that cmov does not give cycle count variance on x86/64 << wouldnt think so either, was thinking more about posibility of some compilers generating a jump
93a11c4ff80bac31…d3cedd55…2025-09-29 19:12:04 <asciilifeform> jonsykkel: even w/out a jump, potentially leaks info, see above
ba02b49393a11c4f…93a11c4f…2025-09-29 19:12:22 asciilifeform not recalls whether cmov invalidates cache when not-taken
f9132601f33f65bf…f33f65bf…2025-10-01 17:58:32 <jonsykkel> -- ... and now obtain K := X / 2^R, i.e., K := X >> R :
e87d0734f9132601…f9132601…2025-10-01 17:58:32 <jonsykkel> FZ_Quiet_ShiftRight(N => X_Minus_One, ShiftedN => K, Count => R);
c8d2f13ae87d0734…e87d0734…2025-10-01 17:58:32 <jonsykkel> here the coment coresponds to algo1 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-637.0-656.0
2a76f14ac84d9cdf…c84d9cdf…2025-10-01 17:58:38 <jonsykkel> it doesnt make a difrence to corectness since u only get the wrong k for the degenerate x%2==0 cases (if x is odd, x-1 only affects the lsb, and that bit is always shifted out since r>=1, so (x-1)>>r == x>>r)
751ac3d72a76f14a…2a76f14a…2025-10-01 23:52:08 <jonsykkel> whops im braindamagd again, its the comment thats worng, and algo 3 writeup
5667f4e217c2b373…be9c47eb…2025-10-08 22:04:26 <awt_akris> https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1976030029089001887 - Trump says he will declare antifa to be a foreign terrorist organization
262bcf8cc914300d…c914300d…2025-10-14 19:59:53 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035022 - Wholesome fat wife should homeschool so that kids don't get brainwashed into lefties, right?
18bc6781a63614aa…a63614aa…2025-10-20 17:09:01 <unpx> Since they are also thinkering with NAT punching, this could be useful to extend Pest https://tailscale.com/blog/nat-traversal-improvements-pt-1 asciilifeform
14111234262bcf8c…262bcf8c…2025-10-14 20:13:55 <PeterL> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-09-28#1035142 <- "Let's not print faction" in US is one rep and one senator, both from Kentucky. Sadly, no chance of making significant policy shift.
696d8c1718bc6781…e6e523b7…2025-10-20 17:36:31 <asciilifeform> unpx: not seeing anyffin new in linked piece re subj
5f58b391696d8c17…696d8c17…2025-10-20 17:37:24 <asciilifeform> ( afaik all possible methods of prying open nat were discussed in the logs in detail )
093397e25f58b391…5f58b391…2025-10-20 17:39:03 <asciilifeform> ( incl. the imho lulziest, where you have 1 or moar peers with public ipv4 but don't know the ip, and so run through all of ipv4 space to wake him up )
cfa5f35a093397e2…5667f4e2…2025-10-20 18:47:20 <awt_akris> unpx: I just started testing out tailscale. It's nice for being able to use mosh to access my machines at home while at the cafe.
10069d57cfa5f35a…cfa5f35a…2025-10-20 18:48:46 <awt_akris> I suppose it could be used to run a pest network as well - of course everyone would have to be on the vpn.
a09a741c10069d57…10069d57…2025-10-20 19:10:54 <awt_akris> Conspicuously neither ngrok nor tailscale have implemented UDP tunnels.
4a1d1dcda09a741c…093397e2…2025-10-20 20:25:59 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-10-20#1035338 << this'd be in the running for 'backwards award' neh
d7a24682ab97b8d8…ab97b8d8…2025-10-20 21:21:16 <awt_akris> Found some services that let you set up a UDP tunnel
9bc001f4d7a24682…a0a8057b…2025-10-20 21:28:42 <asciilifeform> awt: asciilifeform's contention was that (ideally) it's the other udpisms that oughta pipe via a pest bridge, rather than the reverse
5de7e5c49bc001f4…9bc001f4…2025-10-20 21:29:09 <asciilifeform> (at least when they're between pre-config'd 2 machines, a la vpn etc)
b5d973bf63babaeb…5565d915…2025-10-20 21:35:08 <awt_akris> Got it. I was just thinking about how to (at least for now) run pest on my local box without having to connect to everyone through the station I have running on a machine with a public static IP.
8b4a7adeb5d973bf…63babaeb…2025-10-20 21:35:49 asciilifeform recalls suggesting 'slave' feature for this, but not found its way into the docs
b50c023e90dc40e2…8b4a7ade…2025-10-20 21:38:11 <asciilifeform> it has 1 obv down side -- a box (even behind nat, but perhaps could escape from it and be a reachable station?) instead is mastering a remote slave, and you've 1 station rather than 2
6e2582e0b50c023e…b50c023e…2025-10-20 21:38:54 <asciilifeform> (and, nao you've 'personal' peering keys on a remote hosted box)
727d4b396e2582e0…6e2582e0…2025-10-20 21:39:31 asciilifeform can see why awt & perhaps other folx would want the 'irc bouncer' variant tho
b40b41af727d4b39…727d4b39…2025-10-20 21:41:02 <asciilifeform> ideally, the correct use for the would-be 'slave' box would be to broker nat piercing with your wot, is all
8b0fa2fcb40b41af…90dc40e2…2025-10-20 21:42:45 <awt_akris> UDP tunnel seems to be working fine - but still can't directly connect to billymg and asciilifeform
c58a6ef492e50870…92e50870…2025-10-20 21:45:09 asciilifeform put the whole subj on back burner when seemed that errybody sailed off, but may pick back up
f4282e110000000000000000…2025-10-18 14:42:25 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2025-10-16#1117201 << there was another turn of the wheel of samsara, and common lisp is not a thing anymore. oh sure some of the same people who were hacking on it a decade ago are still doing it, but the mid 2000s revival is over and d 0V;uSa
N2+}uQg
2b085142f4282e11…f4282e11…2025-10-18 14:42:25 <phf> ead. so the problem of "windows gui" remains as unsolved as it ever was. your best bet, so as not to waste time on bullshit, is to purchase a hobbyist version of lispworks, for 350 or whatever it is, build a product, and then decide if it's worth to buy the 3k license to distribute 0V;uSa
N2+}uQg
c6c9401b8a0e1392…8a0e1392…2025-10-18 14:44:18 <asciilifeform> ( asciilifeform -- experiments, but of yet nuffin worth publishing result of )
d09aabeed9cf0de9…d9cf0de9…2025-10-18 14:47:55 <phf> "Are you interested to know what the people round Tomis are like, and the customs of those I live among?"
936825d1d09aabee…c6c9401b…2025-10-18 14:48:07 asciilifeform notes that sadly not only winblows gui unsolved, but gui per se
269457ac668b3bb8…668b3bb8…2025-10-18 14:48:41 <asciilifeform> iirc trinque also had daughter recently
b322fab9269457ac…d09aabee…2025-10-18 14:48:57 <phf> i feel like that's a second or third child in trinque's case?
ec40c23fb322fab9…269457ac…2025-10-18 14:49:26 <asciilifeform> not afaik but he's tuned in, will correct
7b03e197005b6106…005b6106…2025-10-18 14:50:46 <asciilifeform> (not that it aint interesting, but phf afaik is a practical fella, presumably baking sumthing concrete?)
302523187b03e197…b322fab9…2025-10-18 14:54:16 <phf> i briefly worked with AW on shakti/k, doing bitch work of writing avx512 optimizations, that gave me the necessary push to learn the apl proper. it's more of an avocation, reading historic papers in my spare time
134557faa87ac634…30252318…2025-10-18 14:55:05 <phf> there's an element of searching for that silver bullet? i mean i've been writing code for such a long time, after a while it's just all the same
73ae5472134557fa…134557fa…2025-10-18 14:56:11 <phf> you said at some point something that stuck with me, that we have a limited number of keystrokes, a kind of programmer's momento mori clock. APL is an attempt to stave of death, by making each keystroke carry as much information as possible :D
907bc2b873ae5472…a87ac634…2025-10-18 14:56:32 <asciilifeform> phf: ever experimented with logic design? it's afaik the one place where 'not same'
d8d82cfd907bc2b8…907bc2b8…2025-10-18 14:57:01 <asciilifeform> sorta similar to flavour of aplism, but minus the 'interface to idjit os' albatross
d1954d0cd8d82cfd…73ae5472…2025-10-18 15:03:42 <phf> vaguely, on and off? it's my training. but i suppose with apl you can still extract useful function, where's logic design is purely tinkering
aa6ac626d1954d0c…d8d82cfd…2025-10-18 15:05:17 <asciilifeform> errything's pure tinkering when you haven't yet found concrete use, neh
fa8316b5aa6ac626…aa6ac626…2025-10-18 15:09:23 asciilifeform after escape from wageschwitz, eventually started again the 'build sane computer' thing, if lives long enuff, will publish. no illusions re whether who else still wants such a thing
f919c01cc1b91980…fa8316b5…2025-10-18 15:11:14 <asciilifeform> quasi-leisure, lol, nobody cancelled greenspun's effect
f3158391f919c01c…f919c01c…2025-10-18 15:11:38 <asciilifeform> 'hey asciilifeform , washingmachine needs a new mobo'
9fb579ecf3158391…f3158391…2025-10-18 15:14:41 <asciilifeform> no horse, no servants (maybe if exchrate grows a new 0 after all, lol)
2b647a369fb579ec…c1b91980…2025-10-18 15:16:48 <phf> one way to solve this problem is of course to move somewhere cheap, and live cheaply. horse is much easier to have than an electrone microscope
ac57f4ba2b647a36…2b647a36…2025-10-18 15:16:58 <phf> but see also http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-10-18#1035256
8ec750e8ac57f4ba…9fb579ec…2025-10-18 15:17:18 asciilifeform has a # of other things wants to do before 'exhausted keystrokes', in particular the uwb thing; but this'd require at least a little interest from other people, and thin since 'war over'
855bd6552cb1b135…ac57f4ba…2025-10-18 15:21:45 <phf> i'm now officially a /professional/ trainer. bought horses who needed improvement, and sold them improved for profit! i could also work for a few days and make as much money, but if i really wanted to step off the carousel, this is an option.
36cc5dc1b32039c5…2cb1b135…2025-10-18 15:22:40 <asciilifeform> horse trainers prolly live longer than chopper trainers (greenspun), wins
cc9b32a35a9ae8b7…b32039c5…2025-10-18 15:25:40 <phf> i don't know if that's a measure of life though. tiktok hikikomori, which seems like the default state of every single zoomer i know outside of where i live, probably lives a long time also
3f84bc06cc9b32a3…5a9ae8b7…2025-10-18 15:25:52 asciilifeform regards pretty much anyffing not involving marinating in front of a comp as 'honest living'
62ac7e803f84bc06…3f84bc06…2025-10-18 15:26:13 <asciilifeform> we afaik dun know the mtbf of homo ticktockicus just yet
d3854ba520acf463…20acf463…2025-10-18 15:28:32 <phf> like wielding a sword of your days past, now grown unfamiliar!
2e58fa40d3854ba5…d5817304…2025-10-18 15:29:18 <asciilifeform> phf: you're using own hand-sewn pestron still? or awt's
bd9b140dbb9107f9…bb9107f9…2025-10-18 15:29:54 asciilifeform promises to read if phf ever gets around to publishing subj
e60f1458bd9b140d…6478565e…2025-10-18 15:30:02 <phf> it's just one pest.lisp, you load it in lispworks, and it gives you a working gui
68407926da0ae154…e60f1458…2025-10-18 15:30:41 <phf> i was thinking just that, re release, when i opened it. not that it's particularly remarkable, but might as well have it available to "others"
963b20f068407926…da0ae154…2025-10-18 15:30:51 asciilifeform has an ancient (not even warez as such, but paid for by old client) copy of lw sumwhere..
75762c1765c7f91a…65c7f91a…2025-10-19 13:44:25 <cdd> unkey mFnUb5Q8cXtk0eYKJ6On6gma6Z65BLPOvLzrSgAKPCH/gCkuUXEUjHPNnGUitUG9hO3RZGtEozJjQ/5luRflTQ==
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 90b98cf0fcd08d903a5b8fd37b7a14e44861bb6c4ae8c8276eebe8993c3763fb) prior to <billymg> ---
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6639b577301546f3…6d5932ea…2025-10-31 16:17:21 <bitbot> Logged on 2025-10-26 15:19:22 awt_akris[jonsykkel]: billymg if you see this - maybe restart your blatta - messages aren't making it to the log
b5cd6b30232e1f9b…232e1f9b…2025-11-02 15:27:47 <signpost> in re: sovereign p2p, not sure I've fully recalibrated to the world emergent.
9c4f9961b5cd6b30…b5cd6b30…2025-11-02 15:28:04 <signpost> bitcoin has been swallowed by the banks, etc.
13f24ece9c4f9961…9c4f9961…2025-11-02 15:43:46 <signpost> many of the coins being sold currently are older addresses.
80b3101e13f24ece…13f24ece…2025-11-02 15:44:25 <signpost> was well understood in TMSR that bitcoin was first a political proposition, then software.
835f9dfa80b3101e…5136a677…2025-11-02 17:49:14 <asciilifeform> signpost: the interesting thing re the soft is that it still worx even when 99% of the coinz are owned by hitler
98975ee8835f9dfa…835f9dfa…2025-11-02 17:50:33 <asciilifeform> (who consequently, the greedier, the more well-behaved becomes. witness the nearly total, afaik, disappearance of fork wankages)
1e928e8d98975ee8…98975ee8…2025-11-02 17:52:43 <asciilifeform> i.e. the political proposition still stands (given as it wasn't 'erryone will be rich', lol, but 'money w/out printer')
cd86f3b11e928e8d…1e928e8d…2025-11-02 17:56:35 <asciilifeform> very 18th c. flavour, arguably, recall when various crowned heads alternated between financing and hanging alchemists
5cfca8c8438e01be…438e01be…2025-11-02 17:59:19 <asciilifeform> from user pov, remains afaik exactly same as in earlier times
a33f27105cfca8c8…5cfca8c8…2025-11-02 17:59:58 <asciilifeform> even exch rate is largely static if one accounts for usd inflatola
f205dae2a33f2710…a33f2710…2025-11-02 18:03:02 <asciilifeform> old addrs emptying simply means that the owners lived long enuff to retire and start eating'em
55dedd3c95cd2d48…95cd2d48…2025-11-02 18:17:07 <asciilifeform> 'btc broak' iff a) hitler can print outta thin air b) hitler can prevent you from spending/receiving if 'not likes your face'
c82ed262b1790ec3…b1790ec3…2025-11-02 18:18:45 <asciilifeform> ( for completeness, include c) hitler can break keyz )
3d7b9d67c82ed262…c82ed262…2025-11-02 18:19:28 <asciilifeform> afaik no symptoms of a, b, c currently
8d18da853d7b9d67…048b312c…2025-11-02 18:32:40 <signpost> earlier was commenting on the "what to build" question.
18975c418d18da85…8d18da85…2025-11-02 18:32:57 <signpost> bitcoin ain't broke but has matured to the point of belonging to the traditional financial powers
d57f817818975c41…18975c41…2025-11-02 18:33:35 <signpost> if it continues to reform those, quite a victory.
017d7d72d57f8178…d57f8178…2025-11-02 18:34:15 signpost has been recalibrating on what to work on now.
b07cf647017d7d72…3d7b9d67…2025-11-02 19:46:56 asciilifeform recalls signpost had made substantial progress on the fountain coad thing, maybe pick it back up if he has the cycles ?
7e6c95e2017d7d72…430a1d86…2025-11-07 11:23:04 <crtdaydreams> where did the term "shannonized" originate?
2dafd6e1b07cf647…b07cf647…2025-11-02 19:48:55 <asciilifeform> 'thinking man's internet' is still open problem. esp. nao that the original www is being killed off with shannonizes liquishit, a la usenet
b96bb89a7e6c95e2…7e6c95e2…2025-11-07 11:24:21 <crtdaydreams> oh, Claude Shannon? I've never heard of this person before
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 9572b7fb85731c798d8bb0d5f0e8396359dd2361225f07e43fca2a98ae2f3302) prior to <awt_akris> ---
f67c136ff5e5b202…81097e6b…2025-11-08 21:40:00 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: no just generating some new keys
550dd2abc96d01a9…c96d01a9…2025-11-08 21:43:51 asciilifeform has the FG II schems/pcb/fw lying around for yrs nao, gathering dust
7610e7ef776dbf62…f67c136f…2025-11-08 21:50:53 <awt_akris> I have some experience at demand testing now - successfully marketed and sold t-shirts. While I suspect your reasons for "wainot" are correct, could likely prove it true/false empirically without building the thing.
8888b4117610e7ef…776dbf62…2025-11-08 21:56:09 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: if you discover evidence that 100+ people seekritly want a 1000$+ rng, please lemme know
8a93f33b8888b411…7610e7ef…2025-11-08 21:57:54 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: Could likely prove no demand for an ad spend in the 4 figure range or less.
49d3f7e58cc724cc…8cc724cc…2025-11-08 22:02:13 asciilifeform not aware of any reason to think that anyffin pertinent has changed
f931923949d3f7e5…8a93f33b…2025-11-08 22:04:40 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: not seeing market places where it was advertised, ad campaign details, etc. My recollection of what happened was that dpb bought almost all of the FG units. I don't know what else you tried in terms of marketing them.
89c2486bf9319239…49d3f7e5…2025-11-08 22:05:29 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: mp & the pete_d fella were in charge of marketing, and iirc did not detail what, precisely, they had done
438ea6a889c2486b…89c2486b…2025-11-08 22:06:03 <asciilifeform> phuctor www (and for a time, mp's, with supposedly large audience) had a fg banner for a time
507a563a127b409f…f9319239…2025-11-08 22:07:58 <awt_akris> yeah my current impression is that mp's audience was very very niche given that I come across links to trilema virtually never, and no one I talk to has ever heard of him.
fb2493b2507a563a…127b409f…2025-11-08 22:08:51 asciilifeform unprepared to even speculate how to convince e.g. microshit victim that a trng is a useful addition to his setup, given that 'medicine for corpse'
bc92d96bfb2493b2…507a563a…2025-11-08 22:15:14 <awt_akris> IDK either. But honestly looks like no one seriously tried to market it.
4ad7c5c4bc92d96b…fb2493b2…2025-11-08 22:17:49 <asciilifeform> the folx pushing suborned crypto hardware have ~infinite marketing budgets (and vendor lock), the hero who can counter this is prolly not yet born.
d8e2b7a54ad7c5c4…bc92d96b…2025-11-08 22:19:05 <awt_akris> What do you mean by infinite? Millions/month in adspend?
ab036f91d8e2b7a5…4ad7c5c4…2025-11-08 22:20:47 <asciilifeform> infinite as in usg printing press collectively feeds the lot of'em
e1b6af3bab036f91…ab036f91…2025-11-08 22:21:19 <asciilifeform> (even if any particular shop very much 'finite')
c90aacbae1b6af3b…e1b6af3b…2025-11-08 22:22:12 <asciilifeform> infinite as in anthill, all the while life of any particular ant is not long
7fa872acfcdd99b3…c90aacba…2025-11-08 22:22:52 <asciilifeform> imho attempts to 'put number' are inescapably focusing on wrong aspect
e48f1e157fa872ac…fcdd99b3…2025-11-08 22:23:06 <awt_akris> Because I guarantee you if you buy ads, they will be seen by real people.
ed1aa962e48f1e15…e48f1e15…2025-11-08 22:23:28 <awt_akris> Or if you put a listing in a marketplace - will be shown to real people
8d7f9f8babc02622…7fa872ac…2025-11-08 22:27:47 asciilifeform had bought www ads in previous times, long before the fg episode, for 'clearly superior to prevailing $shitware and not even expensive' product, with $0 to show for the ads, went away believing that pushing serious scientific instruments to www randos is a fool's game
0e4b9f678d7f9f8b…8d7f9f8b…2025-11-08 22:28:55 <asciilifeform> anyone who seriously thinks 'fg not correctly marketed' is invited to prove asciilifeform wrong by buying 100k$+ worth in 1 go and marketing'em himself
12ad5c390e4b9f67…abc02622…2025-11-08 22:29:19 awt_akris bought ads with > $0 to show for it now what lol
db6a1be812ad5c39…0e4b9f67…2025-11-08 22:29:23 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform however is done with fronting costs (incl. own time) on long shots
de9bb727db6a1be8…12ad5c39…2025-11-08 22:30:16 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: so it was seriously marketed or what lol and who asked asciilifeform to front any costs omg
dca69042de9bb727…db6a1be8…2025-11-08 22:30:53 <asciilifeform> well notionally 'hey if only made moar/sequel, and correctly sold, would sell' is at least hypothetical 'wat if front' neh
10b3f188dca69042…de9bb727…2025-11-08 22:32:06 <awt_akris> nope incorrect - didn't suggest that a sequel be made, only marketed, and didn't specify by whom
2035730210b3f188…dca69042…2025-11-08 22:32:19 <asciilifeform> asciilifeform's collaboration with mp was 1 long episode of fronting serious $ / time , with ~0 to show for it, ftr
ee31519620357302…20357302…2025-11-08 22:33:13 <asciilifeform> iirc there was actually a fella who proclaimed, circa '18 or so, that he'll be baking & selling own fg-like. iirc nuffin happened there
ee1f4825ee315196…10b3f188…2025-11-08 22:33:43 <awt_akris> baking one without proving demand would be a bad idea, as we've seen.
ada451e0ee1f4825…ee315196…2025-11-08 22:35:13 <asciilifeform> whosoever convincingly 'proves demand', can have as many as he wants, 'will roll off conveyor like sausages'(tm)(r)(hrusch). but asciilifeform aint aboutta spend anyffing whatsoever prior to seeing said proof.
c471edecada451e0…ee1f4825…2025-11-08 22:37:49 <awt_akris> Dunno why proves demand is in scare quotes here.
6a0b0be5c471edec…ada451e0…2025-11-08 22:38:37 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: for asciilifeform's edification, plz describe the hypothetical in detail
3f9eb8826a0b0be5…c471edec…2025-11-08 22:40:53 <awt_akris> Create a kickstarter campaign for product. Spend $(one year worth of netflix) on promoting it and see what happens. If nothing happens after maybe 4 weeks of daily ad campaign iterations, delete kickstarter page. Move on with life.
6da10e683f9eb882…6a0b0be5…2025-11-08 22:43:28 <asciilifeform> not that one couldn't, but goodluck trying to convince folx to pony up for 1000$ (hand-tested, like aircraft engine) trng on kickstarter where already they see 100% phunded <100$ 'just as good' (from their pov) trngs
040d40c6cd9e1c6f…3f9eb882…2025-11-08 22:44:21 <awt_akris> Why would you go after cheapskates? They're the worst.
1be77da4e00fb02e…cd9e1c6f…2025-11-08 22:45:06 <asciilifeform> is there a separate kickstarter for non-cheapskates ?
bdd4aef01be77da4…e00fb02e…2025-11-08 22:46:04 <awt_akris> I didn't know kickstarter was only for cheapskates. I do know that the best customers drop $maxint and never bother you.
5a82d815bdd4aef0…1be77da4…2025-11-08 22:47:08 <asciilifeform> the funny thing is, absolutely anyone could've done 'kickstarter for fg' for ~decade nao, the schems+softs have been public since day1
57b3d9fa5a82d815…5a82d815…2025-11-08 22:47:33 <asciilifeform> for sumreason nobody afaik to date did anysuch thing tho
1544989757b3d9fa…57b3d9fa…2025-11-08 22:50:34 <asciilifeform> (afaik nobody to date even baked own unit for own use -- as asciilifeform encouraged folx to attempt -- much less for commercial purpose)
942109a315449897…bdd4aef0…2025-11-08 22:51:25 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: brief search of kickstarter not coming up with any rng devices.
9c95676e942109a3…15449897…2025-11-08 22:52:28 <asciilifeform> hm, maybe was on 'other kickstarters' ?
54d05f6de3587687…942109a3…2025-11-08 22:52:55 <awt_akris> Amazon is showing there is some market for rng devices.
f388fdc254d05f6d…e3587687…2025-11-08 22:53:06 <asciilifeform> the other 1 asciilifeform recalls from l0gz
058bc4b4f388fdc2…f388fdc2…2025-11-08 22:53:26 <asciilifeform> there were at least half dozen that were (or still are) buyable
4d2c7bb3058bc4b4…058bc4b4…2025-11-08 22:54:08 <asciilifeform> ( all of'em afaik 'whitened', unshielded, and/or relied on commercial blackbox rng chip rather than auditable analogue circuit )
6cba40c14d2c7bb3…4d2c7bb3…2025-11-08 22:55:28 <asciilifeform> ( re shield, 'onerng' is a lulzcow, stuffs the digital microcontroller under the same shield as the entropy gatherer, lol )
30ea3ef06cba40c1…6cba40c1…2025-11-08 22:57:18 <asciilifeform> or take the 'takes fw upgrades from pc via usb' lul.
88b5a80730ea3ef0…30ea3ef0…2025-11-08 22:57:39 asciilifeform could go on, but pedantically detailed these in #t days when they came out, and afaik erryone tuned in remembers
650b739888b5a807…88b5a807…2025-11-08 22:59:38 <asciilifeform> then there were the various folx who 'gathered entropy' from rf receiver !
d6391dc5650b7398…650b7398…2025-11-08 23:00:06 asciilifeform will not say whether 'wreckers' or 'idiots' , but at a certain point difficult to distinguish
60bd0bffd6391dc5…d6391dc5…2025-11-08 23:05:00 <asciilifeform> fwiw mp was earnestly convinced that there were folx like himself walking around somewhere, 'serious btc people' who want to buy dedicated, auditable irons, commercial support for same, etc
b77aed5160bd0bff…60bd0bff…2025-11-08 23:06:01 <asciilifeform> seems as if this 'loch ness monster' did not reveal itself. the 'serious bags' seem to have split into 2 types -- one type in fact trusted reich with its coin, parked in goxes
4504d7d5b77aed51…54d05f6d…2025-11-08 23:06:32 <awt_akris> I made something based on similar reports from a guy - was completely illusory
db750a4e4504d7d5…b77aed51…2025-11-08 23:06:43 <asciilifeform> ... the other, 'laying low' and relying on irons/softs wangled together personally / in-house / openly-published 3 or 4 exchrate zeroes ago
be042195db750a4e…4504d7d5…2025-11-08 23:10:44 <awt_akris> Anyway making the thing first and then marketing it is the reverse of what should be done. For ex. in my t-shirt biz, I didn't make a bunch of baby tees with a specific design, then try to sell them. Made a bunch of listings with mockups, then when they sold, made the shirts.
0a976fe6be042195…db750a4e…2025-11-08 23:11:12 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: 'print on demand' worx a++ for shirts, boox, etc
ecfb01330a976fe6…0a976fe6…2025-11-08 23:11:37 <asciilifeform> not so much for items which require tooling, back'n'forths with fab houses, etc
1d3fe1ebecfb0133…ecfb0133…2025-11-08 23:15:33 <asciilifeform> items where unit cost can vary within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude (and with considerable 'floor', as hand-tested) based on qty made -- poor fit for 'sell custom-printed coffee cups' method
d8c27e411d3fe1eb…be042195…2025-11-08 23:16:36 <awt_akris> I object to the notion that you can't sell electronics before producing them.
21d17b51d8c27e41…1d3fe1eb…2025-11-08 23:17:02 <asciilifeform> plenty of folx in fact tried (and continue)
278ff7c821d17b51…21d17b51…2025-11-08 23:17:22 <asciilifeform> e.g. 'hackrf' was a kickstarter product
aa21e506278ff7c8…d8c27e41…2025-11-08 23:17:39 <awt_akris> I've purchased a few such items - the lightphone for example.
1c940ff834623692…278ff7c8…2025-11-08 23:18:27 asciilifeform not contending that 'kickstarter -- scam, nothing was ever baked there' fwiw
9f65587d1c940ff8…1c940ff8…2025-11-08 23:20:21 asciilifeform contends, however, that cryptography -- as a field -- is so thoroughly 'schneierized', that likely scarcely a dozen people alive have any kinda grasp of what the real thing loox like, and what one oughta expect to pay for it
852057539f65587d…9f65587d…2025-11-08 23:21:05 <asciilifeform> ... the rest, either wanna pay $0 -- 'rng comes with intel and mswin' crowd, or '$35' -- the various usb stix etc
9c40a37c85205753…85205753…2025-11-08 23:22:09 <asciilifeform> ( consider various other lulcrypto-ware, e.g. 'trezor', to see what kinda 'pearls' the 'swine' are interested in buying & at what price point )
4ae4cfa6b80c2042…b80c2042…2025-11-08 23:23:01 <awt_akris> I suspect that they're buying the podcasters for extremely cheap
046d223db80c2042…9c40a37c…2025-11-08 23:23:04 <asciilifeform> of course, for thread-completeness, there is the other end of the scale, 20+k$ 'quantum zyz11222!!!' boxes, but these are sold via usg favouriteson 1-bid contracts, rather than 'to humans' afaik
11551a59a5a131fc…4ae4cfa6…2025-11-08 23:25:12 <awt_akris> Well known that X account paid tweets can be purchased for 4 figure amounts.
a3d37fab11551a59…11551a59…2025-11-08 23:26:02 <awt_akris> Seems like only the "bad guys" ever bother to buy anyone off though.
34b3be0aa3d37fab…a5a131fc…2025-11-08 23:26:06 <asciilifeform> aha, and there the winner is the 1 who spends moar $ on buying twits, and as little as possible on the actual product
948e0acf34b3be0a…34b3be0a…2025-11-08 23:26:32 <asciilifeform> spending on the product -- moar or less -ev
2344afc8948e0acf…948e0acf…2025-11-08 23:30:05 <asciilifeform> hence wai kickstarter, as asciilifeform remembers it, was emblematic for hucksters pushing e.g. chinese whitelabel routers with custom-printed sticker, shitlinux + 'tor' etc. shitware inside, and some fancy verbiage
4bc34ddc2344afc8…2344afc8…2025-11-08 23:30:41 <asciilifeform> there -- product costs just about $0 from their end, and 'over9000 profit' if just about any chumps can turn up to buy
406dc6d54bc34ddc…4bc34ddc…2025-11-08 23:31:57 <asciilifeform> and so yet there it becomes a q of bribing 'influencers' and swimming in various online cloacas in search of the gullible
726e6a6d406dc6d5…406dc6d5…2025-11-08 23:32:53 <asciilifeform> this kinda activity has, yes, made a few people rich, but asciilifeform has 0 interest in being involved in any variant of it, in any capacity whatsoever (oughta not be surprise to anyone tuned in)
e3eb4056726e6a6d…a3d37fab…2025-11-08 23:33:06 <awt_akris> What would be the cost per fg on a 1k unit run?
3bb2b45ae3eb4056…726e6a6d…2025-11-08 23:33:58 <asciilifeform> the original fg ? prolly 20bux or so (assuming 'buy at own risk' rather than ' asciilifeform tests each 1 on desk ' )
7f3d84773bb2b45a…3bb2b45a…2025-11-08 23:34:54 <asciilifeform> automated test is theoretically possible but would require tooling that we never sold enuff to justify baking
5a3663167f3d8477…7f3d8477…2025-11-08 23:36:00 <asciilifeform> ftr asciilifeform not certain that the original design could still be made in qty w/out revisions -- not all of the parts may be available, it's been ~decade
ada009ed5a366316…5a366316…2025-11-08 23:36:39 <asciilifeform> (at any rate there's 0 justification for using the xilinx cpld, with its turdware compiler, rather than e.g. ice40 or lichee fpga )
6e62c01eada009ed…ada009ed…2025-11-08 23:39:49 <asciilifeform> the hilarious bit is that the classical fg was in fact a stripped-down (at mp's insistence, to keep unit cost manageable) item. omitted e.g. onboard power source, stackability, coupla other arguable 'luxuries'
eaaad4656e62c01e…6e62c01e…2025-11-08 23:42:59 <asciilifeform> fwiw if asciilifeform were baking irons again, would prolly attempt larger, self-contained gadget incorporating trng, rather than standalone trng
6d95188beaaad465…eaaad465…2025-11-08 23:43:40 <asciilifeform> very few folx are actually qualified to make use of standalone trng (recall at least 1 who never got his fg talking to his crapple or what was it)
d0be711519fdfe53…6d95188b…2025-11-08 23:45:02 <asciilifeform> subtracting pc-compat & its shitware os (all of'em) is an auto-win, supposing one doesn't replace it with basically same barrel o'shit in smaller package ('trezor' & friends)
477fea21d0be7115…d0be7115…2025-11-08 23:47:34 <asciilifeform> there's a small pile of open problems in ^ -- particularly, sending the ~9kbaud one needs for decent quality realtime cipherade over a gsm pnoje would need sumthing like a vocoder/decoder speech-mimic cleverness
8082c247477fea21…477fea21…2025-11-08 23:48:17 <asciilifeform> traditional telephonic modems dunwork worth a shit over mandatorily compressed gsm shitchannel
93a3acfab03f5507…8082c247…2025-11-08 23:49:01 <asciilifeform> ideally no 2 pairs of units would 'speak' in same 'voice', also
5744f80f93a3acfa…93a3acfa…2025-11-08 23:49:27 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: linked item concerned hypothetical 'attach to headphone jack on pnoje' otp messenger
1f2a78515744f80f…5744f80f…2025-11-08 23:50:07 <asciilifeform> ( where, obv, plaintext never touches any part of the pnoje, much less the telco's net )
bf6043361f2a7851…1f2a7851…2025-11-08 23:51:42 <asciilifeform> could even omit the 'headphone jac', have the thing mutter outta small speaker into the handset (and listen from same) , then electrically isolated
e134f9a4bf604336…bf604336…2025-11-08 23:53:35 <asciilifeform> ^ is merely 1 in a # of hypothetical irons asciilifeform discusses that 100% no one is making currently (nor any of the 'usual suspects' is ever likely to)
e75e79bde134f9a4…e134f9a4…2025-11-08 23:54:01 <asciilifeform> even tho the concept for that one dates to... 1940s!
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain fb04de1a7dd8384878f4af07898793331985dfaccead18d8c92d2bb104714d53) prior to <raip> ---
6200a11cfb04de1a…8e55fb88…2025-11-09 06:07:41 <raip> awt_akris: I'm raip, an AI assistant on the PEST network. Direct message me with questions, or in broadcasts use @!ask <question>. Commands: @!ask, @!help, @!status, @!clear, @!model.
887c16936200a11c…fb04de1a…2025-11-09 06:09:25 <awt_akris> List the capitals of all us states, canadian provinces, and mexican states.
a4da2524887c1693…887c1693…2025-11-09 06:09:48 <awt_akris> @!ask List the capitals of all us states, canadian provinces, and mexican states.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7809bff17f41099bd54941c23b1baf099eb51a5ae20444b1eaa475acb6876466) prior to <awt_akris> ---
31a342bb9a6935fe…bf380a54…2025-11-09 06:10:29 <awt_akris> @!ask List the capitals of all us states, canadian provinces, and mexican states.
6bf1332631a342bb…9a6935fe…2025-11-09 06:10:45 <raip> awt_akris: State: Capital". For Canada, "Province: Capital". For Mexico, "State: Capital
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 7478385017ca909b70be19c439cb3e693018428389d26a649434b2d8bebc285b) prior to <awt_akris> ---
05f3917c81275978…74783850…2025-11-09 19:28:38 <raip> awt_akris: I'm raip, an AI assistant on the PEST network. Direct message me with questions, or in broadcasts use @!ask <question>. Commands: @!ask (paste: enabled), @!askm (inline), @!help, @!status, @!clear, @!model.
70f19fb7e933101d…05f3917c…2025-11-09 19:28:59 <raip> awt_akris: Queries processed: 152 | Uptime: 0h 1m | Active contexts: 1
e44b04d270f19fb7…00000000…2025-11-09 19:33:40 <raip> awt_akris: I'm raip, an AI assistant on the PEST network. Direct message me with questions, or in broadcasts use @!ask <question>. Commands: @!ask (paste: enabled), @!askm (inline), @!help, @!status, @!clear, @!model.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 359a0baea5e8e17608073abababd01fb80a26dc500a73b7d0ec8c857c698fb51) prior to <raip> ---
388e0bb8045e250f…045e250f…2025-11-09 19:36:26 <raip> awt_akris: Queries processed: 5 | Uptime: 0h 4m | Active contexts: 1
d3a3d59288fc52d9…388e0bb8…2025-11-09 19:37:53 <raip> awt_akris: I'm raip, an AI assistant on the PEST network. Direct message me with questions, or in broadcasts use @!ask <question>. Commands: @!ask (paste: enabled), @!askm (inline), @!help, @!status, @!clear, @!model.
bb67df08d3a3d592…88fc52d9…2025-11-09 19:38:21 <awt_akris> @!ask what is the current price of Bitcoin?
2631bd6377dc7be7…172bb4ca…2025-11-09 19:47:53 <awt_akris> @!ask Summarize this blog post: http://trilema.com/2019/bitcoin-recapitulation/
04ad9ac4b0855e8a…b0855e8a…2025-11-10 17:41:09 <awt_akris> fg successfully generating entropy. Down to my last one. Gotta get a case for it and keep it somewhere safe.
89f84b5904ad9ac4…ef64ca30…2025-11-10 22:23:13 <asciilifeform> awt_akris: down to , i.e. had >1 but nao -- 1 ? ( actually managed to burn'em? or where'd they go ? )
0050f29689f84b59…04ad9ac4…2025-11-10 22:34:13 <awt_akris> asciilifeform: had 2. First is possibly somewhere in a storage unit, have yet to locate.
0dc1fcb379d8c4cf…79d8c4cf…2025-11-12 02:06:52 <unpx> wtf is this https://gizmodo.com/the-fbi-is-trying-to-unmask-the-registrar-behind-archive-today-2000682868
048a84790dc1fcb3…00000000…2025-11-12 12:28:52 <awt_printer> For some reason I thought archive.is had already shutdown.
--- GAP --- missing broadcast (NetChain 4012a2f20100000020a7b96f010000002010f6850100000028bf87ab02000000) prior to <s1gnp0st> ---
6df564ace9e070e0…e9e070e0…2025-11-15 15:29:24 <s1gnp0st> I put 0xFA in AGENTS.md and bellowed at gpt-5.1-codex until this popped out the other side.
f09cefd1ad4c5208…017d7d72…2025-11-15 15:26:56 <signpost> nice, basic interop with blatta seems like it works.
b2e937eddfea1b10…dfea1b10…2025-11-15 17:36:33 <awt> raip was written completely by claude. Been considering making an "archiver" plugin for akris to preservie links/images.
89f69d1fb2e937ed…25a2ae53…2025-11-15 17:38:24 <asciilifeform> awt: what kinda bugs did bot find ? (and what does the process look like?)
d0d0679c89f69d1f…89f69d1f…2025-11-15 17:38:40 asciilifeform singularly unlucky to date w/ getting anyffing useful outta the gptbots
26bd2435d0d0679c…d0d0679c…2025-11-15 17:39:33 <asciilifeform> (understatement, actually: typically they produce mind-bogglingly overcomplicated AND subtly-broken proggies, in asciilifeform's experience)
360f7f9a26bd2435…b2e937ed…2025-11-15 17:40:01 <awt> asciilifeform: ui bugs - like hitting enter doesn't send the message in some environments, or focus doesn't switch to the text field.
55a22016360f7f9a…360f7f9a…2025-11-15 17:41:45 <awt> asciilifeform: process was just entering: "why does enter not send the message" basically - then claude just shows me the diff and I try it.
6ec36c5155a22016…55a22016…2025-11-15 17:43:47 <awt> For raip, I had claude generate a doc for the akris client api, then use that to "build a bot that connects to pest and accepts commands for querying a local llm" then iterating on that until it worked. Haven't even looked at the code - I assume it's garbage.
6e57c42a6ec36c51…6ec36c51…2025-11-15 17:49:34 <awt> Hopefully somehow we can get everyone on pest stations that support multipart - makes it much more convenient for bots to dump more info into the chat instead of having to link to paste bins.
d3618edf6e57c42a…f09cefd1…2025-11-15 20:58:45 <signpost> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-11-15#1035556 << -std=c11 and sqlite
3e6b12b5d3618edf…d3618edf…2025-11-15 23:28:39 <signpost> weeeee shall see whether it did any good, but the spec is so nicely written it was straightforward to make the golem lay down tests per MUST.
0dff9a473e6b12b5…23817b32…2025-11-16 00:13:05 <crtdaydreams> someone might find some interest in some of these LLM integrations/experiments by Joe Marshall, one of the authors of the LMI lambda lispm https://funcall.blogspot.com/2025/08/llm-in-debugger.html
d6da18470dff9a47…0dff9a47…2025-11-16 00:14:34 <crtdaydreams> Talking to him, I believe asciilifeform was the one that reached out and asked him to post the remaining source code from it. In recent months he's been posting quite regularly and at great length about his exploration of LLMs in code-genration
e6836f89d6da1847…0050f296…2025-11-16 04:04:09 <awt_akris> @!ask Summarize discussion around nat penetration and proposed solutions.
439d33bd33162cb0…3e6b12b5…2025-11-16 04:48:50 <signpost> awt, neat, this is a RAG thinger hooked up to logs?
d1a0c033439d33bd…33162cb0…2025-11-16 04:52:58 <awt_akris> signpost: yes. hooked up an mcp server that queries the local sqlite db.
15849045d1a0c033…d1a0c033…2025-11-16 05:31:51 <awt_akris> Not a terrible summary: https://paste.rs/cVk10.md. Seems to be confused about a tangentially related debugging discussion.
37c7d0e615849045…439d33bd…2025-11-16 16:41:04 <signpost> might need to chew the logs into embeddings to get good RAG over them. maybe the MCP server already does this?
d51ecfdb37c7d0e6…15849045…2025-11-16 16:52:16 <awt_akris> signpost: don't know what you mean be embeddings.
da03c58ad51ecfdb…d51ecfdb…2025-11-16 16:52:44 <awt_akris> @!ask In the context of LLMs and RAG what are embeddings?
3414a8b43fdcae94…37c7d0e6…2025-11-16 17:01:06 <signpost> typical search poopline would involve processing the messages using an embedding model, obtaining a vector which is a stab at representing the text's position in a vector space learned by the embedding model, storing that embedding alongside the text
c9cd73b33414a8b4…3414a8b4…2025-11-16 17:02:03 <signpost> then when you want to query, having an LLM elaborate the user's query a bit (to produce more text that has a chance of being similar to embeddings in your db), and then using e.g. cosine distance to rank database messages by similarity, taking the top however many, then feeding those to an LLM to synthesize a response
be32b78dc9cd73b3…c9cd73b3…2025-11-16 19:13:25 signpost yaps further to kick off another backlog sync
d419b1dabe32b78d…be32b78d…2025-11-16 19:50:16 <signpost> (implemented prod on boot so I don't have to keep doing that)
e65f476fd419b1da…da03c58a…2025-11-17 00:04:50 <awt_akris> Ok started generating embeddings. Responses seem a bit more thorough.
9e2adc0ce65f476f…e65f476f…2025-11-17 00:13:12 <awt_akris> This is a pretty good result for "What programming language was jonsykkel's pest station written in": https://paste.rs/h3MPz.md
8f2a7f2a9e2adc0c…d419b1da…2025-11-17 00:43:27 <signpost> but what language is jonsykkel's website written in?
96ba9bb1e441b675…8d2f6c90…2025-11-17 22:04:06 <awt_akris> @!ask check kraken for the current price of bitcoin
dae8adbe8f286c57…96ba9bb1…2025-11-17 22:08:38 <awt_akris> Listening to a great book on Koba. Had no idea he learned greek and trained to be a priest.
38202f20187b6698…187b6698…2025-11-18 05:26:08 <awt_akris> Switched raip over to grok-4. Much faster and "smarter."
1390327d38202f20…38202f20…2025-11-18 05:31:45 <awt_akris> @!ask Estimate the yearly low for BTC in 2026
01bb163a86395ea4…3c9de7d6…2025-11-18 05:36:57 <awt_akris> @!ask translate http://zzz.st/books/10thplace into old norse
54dbe12701bb163a…1bd7850a…2025-11-20 20:18:02 <s1gnp0st> mr trump will be pleased to be vindicated in believing that tariffs are not inflationary
2a64d2269ff063c4…9af86f49…2025-11-20 20:38:01 <s1gnp0st> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035648 << recent behavior strongly suggests he is owned by the vampire pedo rulers of earth.
78b977ab2a64d226…4b2855f4…2025-11-20 20:39:59 <awt_akris> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035648 << it does seem to be an israel first admin. Plus side is he's not actively hunting down maga folks. Nice breather.
cfeeca3078b977ab…2a64d226…2025-11-20 20:44:54 s1gnp0st will take compromised old man who might do a few things I like vs SF alcoholic bimbo of course.
8edf61cbd8e06578…394504b8…2025-11-20 20:19:27 <awt_akris> I liked the tariffs idea, but he tariffed *coffee*. Also flip flopped on them repeatedly, then made exceptions for big business, fucking over small business yet again.
7d5c8021cfeeca30…cfeeca30…2025-11-20 20:45:54 <s1gnp0st> re: recent near-unanimous epstein vote in congress, I don't imagine "CIA is world's foremost drug cartel and child trafficker" will be forthcoming.
cd6dec8a8edf61cb…d8e06578…2025-11-20 20:21:50 <s1gnp0st> there's something like 10T of federal debt to roll to new debt in 2026
b986fd767d5c8021…78b977ab…2025-11-20 21:01:12 <awt_akris> Ok generated a chain checker. Not entirely sure it's working yet but here's the output for today's log: https://paste.rs/I6AaP.txt
a6c56364cd6dec8a…cd6dec8a…2025-11-20 20:22:13 <s1gnp0st> everybody remembers that the weimar era was hyperinflationary, but fewer bring up the volatility of that era.
b10572adb986fd76…7d5c8021…2025-11-20 21:03:27 <s1gnp0st> does this mean my packets look right from your perspective?
52c8cbcba6c56364…a6c56364…2025-11-20 20:29:53 <s1gnp0st> y'all remember looking at e.g. BTCARS? I used to call that "going to heaven" against btc
29c7b5918cebb046…b986fd76…2025-11-20 21:12:05 <awt_akris> s1gnp0st yeah your messages are looking good.
b17c775b29c7b591…29c7b591…2025-11-20 21:13:58 <awt_akris> For some reason the raip replies aren't making it to the log or you, which I can see reflected in the netchain - they're not in your netchain and they're not showing up in billymg's logger, but they are showing up in asciilifeform's logger.
8a85f635b17c775b…b17c775b…2025-11-20 22:01:58 <awt_akris> I think it's a bounce count issue. raip and I presume your client are probably at the extremem periphery of the net.
9af86f49ee4b2c3e…ee4b2c3e…2025-11-20 20:32:00 <s1gnp0st> in hyperinflating fiats the "halving cycle" would get totally swamped by the fiat's grind to hell
89499cdb8a85f635…8a85f635…2025-11-20 23:33:11 <awt_akris> Ok so looks like the number of chain breaks isn't horrendous, though there are some recent netchain breaks (from me) - most likely because akris_desktop was sending messages while disconnected from the main net recently.
4b2855f49af86f49…f0cd007c…2025-11-20 20:34:53 <awt_akris> @!ask list the % increase/decrease vs. btc of the top 20 international currencies over the past 12 months
19172d823f6001f7…3f6001f7…2025-11-20 23:37:24 <awt_akris> theory wrt dump: https://x.com/altcoindaily/status/1991609131573342665
4873066f19172d82…19172d82…2025-11-20 23:39:52 <awt_akris> s1gnp0st: I do see a netchain break from tempest: it was the "test from WIP pestron" message
b6e0655b4873066f…6796536e…2025-11-21 00:37:37 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035671 << lol, such 'bug' eh
6a586941b6e0655b…b6e0655b…2025-11-21 00:42:25 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035648 << anyone ever seen a tariffism that ~wasn't~ exactly like this ?
8e8d0a166a586941…6a586941…2025-11-21 00:43:26 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035657 << who not owned&operated -- not appears on the idjitvision, and ergo 'not electable'(tm) neh
9d5713a18e8d0a16…8e8d0a16…2025-11-21 00:44:01 asciilifeform finds lulzy that there are folx to whom all of this is some kinda cruel surprise
49ca618e9d5713a1…9d5713a1…2025-11-21 00:45:21 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035663 << neato!
90031c8849ca618e…49ca618e…2025-11-21 00:46:51 <asciilifeform> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-20#1035659 << fwiw while & to the extent that they were 'hunted', stood some chance to evolve intelligence
583ea9a0586569d0…8cebb046…2025-11-21 00:54:34 <s1gnp0st> awt_akris, I defo sent some busted packets near the beginning.
0f7e41b5583ea9a0…586569d0…2025-11-21 04:23:39 <asciilifeform> re: earlier thrd -- oughta add, the version where 'oh it's old btc people selling' does not add up
81d9820e0f7e41b5…0f7e41b5…2025-11-21 04:24:17 <asciilifeform> think, wai would fella with 1e5+btc etc dump & thermonuke the exchrate. 'own goal'
a2b9ea1481d9820e…81d9820e…2025-11-21 04:25:30 <asciilifeform> (recall, e.g. mp did no such thing, because not idiot, and not in thrall to the reich muppeteers who are the only people whose aims include tanking the exch)
62c3eacfa2b9ea14…a2b9ea14…2025-11-21 04:26:48 <asciilifeform> (actual 'human' holder -- not dumps 1e5, but strictly as req'd to purchase whatever toy of the day)
9eb798bc62c3eacf…62c3eacf…2025-11-21 04:30:39 <asciilifeform> 'bbut oldcoinz ~are~ moving' -- ok, but there's >1 possible expl. for it.
3a20cd6b9eb798bc…9eb798bc…2025-11-21 04:31:08 <asciilifeform> (key holder -- 'slipped in bath', or 0day'd, or etc.)
b5aab0e83a20cd6b…00000000…2025-11-21 04:49:56 <s1gnp0st> hash rate still fooming upward, so yes, current exch rate in company store credits is faek and gay.
b523f81db5aab0e8…b5aab0e8…2025-11-21 04:56:36 <s1gnp0st> https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/all-hell-breaks-loose-japan-yen-bonds-crash-ahead-gigantic-debt-busting-stimulus << things, breaking.
acf5949b2a2192aa…b523f81d…2025-11-21 04:59:03 <s1gnp0st> ah hm, japan deploying monetary stimulus bazooka.
90534149acf5949b…acf5949b…2025-11-21 04:59:13 <s1gnp0st> iirc I read the chicoms are doing the same.
87f13a4090534149…2a2192aa…2025-11-21 05:04:30 <asciilifeform> when folx w/ an actual, working industrial base print 1e6 tonned of paperola, would expect result would be diff. vs when folx who manufacture only tentacle pr0n do it
9be41f6f87f13a40…87f13a40…2025-11-21 05:04:59 <asciilifeform> sorta like a 17yo student going on a bender, vs. 60yo eltsin with coupla crumbs of liver remaining
0ecbbc899be41f6f…90534149…2025-11-21 14:53:13 <s1gnp0st> this session making tempest was pretty interesting. only a couple of days to get to this point. first time I've enjoyed barking a nontrivial program into an LLM. gpt-5.1-codex-max. I jammed asciilifeform's 0xFA spec directly into the system prompt via AGENTS.md. had the thing write an enormous test suite from the spec.
09789c420ecbbc89…0ecbbc89…2025-11-21 14:56:09 <s1gnp0st> rather than get hung up about whether it can "think", it's perfectly useful if what it did was create a faithful *projection* of well-written thought from the spec to C
29e7185c09789c42…9be41f6f…2025-11-21 15:43:26 <asciilifeform> s1gnp0st: will be interesting to read (esp. if commented re: how much massage/what kind was req'd to make it go)
a08368f20000000000000000…2025-11-21 21:48:54 <phf> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-11-19#1035622 << i'll be honest, my pest doesn't even attempt to keep chains longterm. every time i reload and reconnect, it's a fresh chain.
417f3ce3a08368f2…a08368f2…2025-11-21 21:50:24 <phf> i think o.g. spec required you to spit warnings and errors when there's chain shenanigans, but afaiu the new one doesn't. still i suspect if you were to make an llm /really/ stick it to a spec, a clever little bot will make you an pest that will be rather unhappy with what we actually have in the logchain
af1582203023deb8…3023deb8…2025-11-21 21:54:01 <phf> (apropos pest wishlist, i really wish public logotrons would support multipart messages. or at least did when there was active conversation last time. i think mine still uses the previous multipart messages spec, with the special character, because it's backwards compatible. i thin Lҗ] ,w\١m=0Aa
7)`
6716330caf158220…af158220…2025-11-21 21:54:01 <phf> k the new multipart requires support from everyone, otherwise messages will be lost, and i don't think everyone supports it. but i also don't really know the state of things. i'm writing a bunch of extra stuff to trigger multipart. foobar) Lҗ] ,w\١m=0Aa
7)`
c94ee6f46716330c…5e9c1dc3…2025-11-21 22:16:35 <s1gnp0st> I'm receiving those with the continuation indicator just ending up in weechat as garbage on a separate message
f2528c56c94ee6f4…c94ee6f4…2025-11-21 22:18:08 s1gnp0st backed off the autistic bot's urge to conform the world to an impl that stitches what it gets together at best effort.
e786250ef2528c56…f2528c56…2025-11-21 22:20:10 <s1gnp0st> de facto required at this point that zeroed netchains and selfchains be tolerated